Projecting Expectations on Others, Strengthening the Father-Daughter Relationship, and Overcoming Influence from an Abusive Father ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
172.15828
Summary
On this episode of the Iron Council, John and Sean talk about Father's Day and how they celebrated it. They discuss the importance of being a man of action and taking a moment to be grateful for what we have.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:05.980
When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, or strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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John, we do it again. How you doing, sir? How was your Father's Day?
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Father's Day was great. We were talking last week about your vision and what you want to feel like and had one of those moments on Father's Day where I just made myself block out a time where it was just going to chill and enjoy all the work, all everything.
00:00:49.380
Yeah, we went down to our pond and fished, and so we were down there catching largemouth with the kids and sitting on the deck and just enjoying everything.
00:00:59.920
And it was kind of what we talked about with how you feel about your boat and your house and that vision for what you want.
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Way to rub it in, Sean. Yeah, way to rub it in. I'm not experiencing any of that.
00:01:14.820
But all of those, you know, we get busy and we're constantly moving and in a direction somewhere when we have that vision.
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And sometimes it's actually hard for people to sit back and enjoy it, especially when it becomes a habit of just being on the go towards your next thing.
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And it was just nice to sit back and enjoy it and have one of those moments of, man, I've thought about this so many times about this happening and just sitting there with my wife and watching the kids.
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You know, it's well, before I say what I did, you bring up a point.
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You know, I think, I think it's safe to say that most men, I shouldn't say most, a lot of men are lazy.
00:02:01.660
They come home, they flip on the TV, they watch sports, they're disconnected from their families, their fitness is an utter mess.
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They're not presiding or leading in front in any particular way.
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And they're doing the bare minimum, right, to stay employed and the bare minimum not to have their wife leave them.
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I would assume that is probably the majority of men, unfortunately.
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However, in the circle that we have within order of men and the Iron Council, and I'm sure you being a high caliber individual, Sean, and the people you surround yourself with, we have the opposite problem, which is the problem that you just mentioned, is sometimes we don't stop and go, man, you know what?
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Life is good and to be grateful, you know what I mean?
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Because we're always like, okay, do better, work out better, get my fitness better, work better.
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And, and to be frank, you know, to your point, we should stop a little bit more often and, and, and appreciate what we have, be grateful for what we have, and then get back to work.
00:03:18.040
I mean, don't get me, I, how's that to kick off my lack of gratitude?
00:03:22.820
So, no, it went down to Delta and just worked and, you know, hung out with, with the kids a little bit, probably made people work too much and didn't enjoy as much as I should have.
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I thought on Sunday, I was like, oh, well, Sunday I'll take a chill.
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And then it was super windy and a little bit colder.
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So, but had my wife had her, her stepdad and her father over and her brother and all the ladies, you know, brought desserts.
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And we just kind of hung out last night and, and just kind of chilled around the house.
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Like, I think for me, it's like, it's hard not to be done, like to complete something.
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Like I, I'm always uneasy if things are unfinished or like, Hey, there's stuff that needs to get done.
00:04:24.740
Let's get that done before we sit back and enjoy our fruits.
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The problem with me though, is there's nothing's ever not done.
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But for some odd reason, I keep thinking that, uh, you know, Sean, I just, you know, let me get it done.
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So, yeah, yeah, maybe that's my next lot, my next life lesson to figure out how to balance.
00:05:01.560
And you mentioned last week on guys retiring that have all this stuff to do after they retire, because really, in my opinion, if you, if you're doing it right, there's always stuff to do.
00:05:14.940
So, I mean, really, what a waste of life to just loathe around.
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I mean, you can only sit on a beach and get fat for so long before you start feeling like it's a waste and you got to get to doing something.
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I mean, that's what I see with, with most people too.
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And they're in their planning for their future that one of the big questions I asked as they get closer is, Hey, what are you going to do?
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And it catches them off guard most of the time.
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And it kind of racks them when they get to the, they figure out the financial part and then it's like, okay, what do I really want to do?
00:06:02.380
Well, and it's, you know, I think it related to that is this idea that we set some expectations of enjoyment of at the end of things and then choose not to live, you know, why we're building the house.
00:06:21.340
We choose not to live while we're trying to get our financial house in order.
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And we think on, on realistically that somehow when those things are a quote unquote done, then, right.
00:06:40.460
Then, then our marriage will be better once she does these things, right?
00:06:44.120
Like we set all these expectations, um, of how great life's going to be in the future based upon a lot of the time, based upon circumstances outside our realm of control.
00:06:57.140
Uh, and then we don't live waiting for that, uh, for that happiness to magically show up when things get done.
00:07:04.700
So it reminds me of that quote, um, I think it was Hinckley is years ago, but like, you know, says, you know, something to the extent that like most kids just grow up to be standard adults.
00:07:20.280
Most jobs require a lot of work and effort, you know, and that the trick of an enjoyment of life is to enjoy the ride, you know, not necessarily to finish it, you know?
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Um, so I I'm saying this all to myself, everybody, I'm not projecting this as I'm, as I'm reminders, what I need to know.
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Isn't that ironic that half the time when we talk on this thing, I'm like constantly like, yeah, this is just an echo chamber for me to be listening to myself.
00:07:50.540
So anyhow, well, all you fathers, uh, we know it was a few days ago, but, uh, happy father's day.
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Um, you know, I, I really contemplated, um, I mean, don't get me wrong.
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Um, but I really feel like the thing that should be happening is that we shouldn't be celebrating fatherhood as much as discussing the importance of it.
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Um, because I, I really do believe that, um, a lot of men and women for that matter, uh, don't appreciate, uh, the impact that fathers really truly have.
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Um, I mean, if we want to statistically go into, you know, the probability of children having success in life, the probability of them going to jail or staying out of jail, um, you can pretty much, I think you can pretty much align most social world issues to fatherless homes.
00:08:58.540
And so it is such a big deal and it's a big deal for multiple parties too, right?
00:09:04.720
Cause I, I think sometimes it's, you know, we get in our own heads, you know, I, I think any father that's been divorced, um, you know, you might be running your story about how your ex makes it so hard for you to see the kids.
00:09:18.720
And maybe they don't love you anymore because they've abandoned you or whatever that is.
00:09:26.700
And to be frank, I think there's the majority of ex-wives that want to replace you that.
00:09:35.800
And they think that you can be replaced that they'll just find the other, the other guy and they'll be dad and it will be the same to their kids.
00:09:46.380
They'll think it's the same, um, at the detriment of their own children, uh, to be frank and their relationship with them.
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And I think men need to be fighting for their rights as fatherhoods.
00:10:02.400
I think women need to be fighting as well for fathers to, to rise up, but man, it is such a critical issue not to go all negative town on father's day, but, um, it's such a big issue.
00:10:20.380
And even if it's dysfunctional, like you mentioned, I'm glad you said that because even if it's dysfunctional, it's, and you're still around as a father, it's still better there.
00:10:33.320
And you, you absolutely can't replace that father.
00:10:40.280
And I do want to say to all the stepdads out there, it doesn't mean that you don't do your best and that you're not trying your hardest and that you're not being the man.
00:10:49.720
That fatherly that those children need in their lives.
00:10:55.320
And that example, it's absolutely critical simultaneously, but it still will never replace their actual father.
00:11:04.900
And that's a, it's a, I don't know if it's genetics, but it's deep rooted.
00:11:09.920
And it's, uh, like you said, the stats are out there.
00:11:19.520
With that note, um, a couple announcements and I'll mention this a little bit later.
00:11:23.800
The iron council is officially open for enrollment for the month, through the month of June.
00:11:29.200
So if you've been on the fence, you want to join us in the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council, uh, to sign up today.
00:11:37.540
We're going to fill the questions on the podcast from our Facebook group.
00:11:40.860
That's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.
00:11:43.940
If you haven't already, we'll jump into these questions.
00:11:46.480
Mike Collins, as a father whom has lost four children to miscarriage since 2015, is it acceptable to be bothered by people, not including me into their father day thoughts?
00:11:59.360
Or is it that just projecting as I can't expect them to remember as my kids are not standing next
00:12:07.680
I being as empathic as I can, we'll say you're projecting because, and here's the thing, not
00:12:21.780
just in your expectation for father's day wishes, but in anything, your expectation that you're
00:12:31.560
going to be recognized for any part of your life is projecting.
00:12:37.160
And so I don't want it to just be on fatherhood.
00:12:40.560
And in saying that I, I actually have a friend who lost four kids inside of three years as well.
00:12:50.420
Now they have other children now, but when they talk about their children, they talk about
00:12:56.000
the four that they lost, uh, along with their one son that they, they biologically had.
00:13:02.820
And then they have an adopted son as well, but they talk when they talk about their children
00:13:09.840
in the sense that they have six kids, but they don't expect anybody else to talk about
00:13:15.620
their children in the sense outside of them having two children, if that makes sense.
00:13:20.680
And so it's because here's the thing, people have their own things going on in their own
00:13:27.800
lives and for us to expect them to remember any of the, the so-called strife that we have
00:13:36.000
going on in ours is always going to be projecting.
00:13:39.740
And so now in saying that simultaneously, it doesn't take away the uncomfortable and, and
00:13:49.580
bad and sometimes miserable thoughts that we have when other people are celebrating those
00:13:55.880
And so it doesn't mean that you shouldn't feel bad, but it also shouldn't mean that, that
00:14:03.540
they should remember and you should expect them to, to give you praise for those things.
00:14:12.380
I'm glad you brought this up from a outside of just fatherhood.
00:14:19.380
There's no book of life that says that Sean's wife needs to even show him respect.
00:14:29.880
And it's, and, and Mike, we're going to like, just rag on you a little bit as an example.
00:14:34.940
So don't take it personal, but the, but the question is a good question.
00:14:38.640
And, but how often do we add so much meaning to stuff, right?
00:14:45.760
It's like, well, people don't, don't consider me a father because they don't think about
00:14:57.400
They don't appreciate, you know, like it's this loaded thing.
00:15:09.420
We got to be very, very careful on how much meaning or around the should and should nots,
00:15:22.260
And most importantly, when people don't do what we expect them to do, are you going to
00:15:30.180
I mean, even think like how often we do this, right?
00:15:33.960
Where we think our boss should do something, our employees, our spouses, our friends, they
00:15:40.440
And when they don't do it, when they don't meet our expectations, it's not just the story.
00:15:46.860
We don't go, oh man, that was not really considerate.
00:15:49.520
No, the next time I now see Sean, what do I do?
00:15:56.560
I'm withholding my friendship from him because I think he should have, should have not done
00:16:01.000
something and he's probably completely unaware of it, man, total projecting.
00:16:15.220
Now, as you say that Kip, it makes me think if we're talking about empathy, also think that
00:16:23.700
maybe the empathy that they have is they don't want to mention it because it's uncomfortable
00:16:29.680
They've seen it psychologically hurt you and your family and your wife, and they don't
00:16:35.960
want to bring it up maybe because it's painful.
00:16:40.860
And so maybe they're not saying it because of that.
00:16:45.060
And so again, you can't have this false expectation that they should or shouldn't say it because
00:16:49.280
you don't know how they're feeling for whatever reason I thought of, you know, when, when the
00:16:56.020
George Floyd thing was happening, I remember we had a lot of these conversations in the
00:16:59.680
IC and I had this in, you know, another men's group that, that I, that I run and some things
00:17:05.380
that our conversation became for a couple of months of like, Hey, yeah, we're going to
00:17:14.160
But we had a lot of conversations from a lot of the white guys that were like, Hey, can we
00:17:19.480
Can we say, do we, should we say African-American remember that?
00:17:23.200
And it was like, there was this thing that people didn't want to say anything because they
00:17:35.440
And so for us, we just, you know, we have to take whatever as we can with empathy going
00:17:44.960
both ways and understanding that we, we really can't expect people to, to say everything and
00:17:53.980
And, and I, I honestly believe most people are never intentionally causing you misery.
00:18:01.300
No, it's usually a by-product of their own stories, their own chaos, what's happening in
00:18:10.360
And so if Mark here, how's this, there will never be a case.
00:18:15.980
I can guarantee you almost a case where I intentionally am rude to Sean.
00:18:22.300
Now, is there a probability I could certainly, but it's probably out of ignorance, not being
00:18:37.940
Most people are so busy worrying about their own problems that trust me, they're not going
00:18:43.060
out of their way to intentionally offend anybody.
00:18:45.280
And it's usually like an accident or their own story or their, yeah, like their own story
00:18:52.420
about you and how you feel about them is probably the most common scenario that causes people
00:19:08.040
And it's the story of, it's called the story of Flamin' Hot.
00:19:24.960
And, and the reason it's so good, like I grew up in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood.
00:19:30.100
And so like all my, I had so many friends and families and people I was around that were
00:19:38.760
And he grew up in the sixties and seventies, you know, where, so he dealt with racism and
00:19:44.940
people, you know, like saying derogatory things because he's Mexican and jobs being harder because
00:19:51.840
But it was the dude who came up with the idea for Flamin' Hot Cheetos.
00:20:01.300
The funny part of the story is that when he talks about these executives and what happened
00:20:08.920
when they had these ideas and things like that, there's these scenes where it's like
00:20:14.920
these old white guys in suits and ties around a board meeting and he tells his version of
00:20:21.720
the story of what they were saying and how they were saying.
00:20:24.680
And he's got like the CEO being like, these bottles aren't, you know, like whatever.
00:20:29.820
And it's so funny, his version, but it's them like, like mouthing it, like lipping it
00:20:38.400
And then he goes back to, it's, it's almost like the, like the screechy record.
00:20:44.980
It actually didn't go down like that, you know, but because he's like, cause they don't
00:20:50.980
He's like, but here's how it actually went down.
00:20:54.060
And then it shows like the corporate white guy version of what they actually said.
00:21:02.500
But dude, I was dying inside because I was like, man, I just love this movie because.
00:21:09.340
And I saw that so much growing up, you know, me being like the way to in our, in the white
00:21:22.780
What was the, what was the way to, it's like white Mexican, right?
00:21:29.100
Cause I'm Mexican, like my, my Mexican side of the family, but I obviously don't look like
00:21:33.160
a Mexican guy and don't speak Spanish or any of that stuff.
00:21:48.760
I used to be, I used to hate to be called widow and this movie made me remember that.
00:21:53.880
And it just made me love how I grew up to understand that culture and that side of things.
00:21:59.440
And that you could say a word to somebody and it could go two ways.
00:22:08.360
And then I grew up and, and, and through maturity realize, you know what, half the time those
00:22:15.240
guys call me, well, it's because they were accepting me into that community, you know,
00:22:21.700
because like, I, I didn't grow up learning Spanish.
00:22:26.040
So we, we spoke, my dad spoke ASL, not Spanish.
00:22:29.320
Like we lost that part of that culture, but I tried and I learned Spanish and, and, you
00:22:36.560
And, and they accepted me as, as part of that community, you know, but even though I didn't
00:22:42.220
hear it that way as an immature kid, you know, now I hear it differently.
00:22:47.260
And, and just watching that movie made me think of those things, but it also, as we're
00:22:50.980
talking about this, we all have these scenes in our head of how things go down.
00:22:56.840
And sometimes we, we feel it a certain way or think it should be a certain way.
00:23:02.320
And we can project that on others instead of just accepting that it probably didn't go
00:23:07.380
So, well, it's like, it's, you know, Asia's Hawaiian.
00:23:10.620
And so, you know, obviously people have called me Howley, you know, multiple times and, and
00:23:19.920
I think it started bothering me once I said, well, what does that mean?
00:23:27.680
Like that, I was like, wait, I'm not spiritless.
00:23:31.740
And then like, we're at a, like a, a Hawaii football game and Oahu and these dudes are like
00:23:41.580
I was like, okay, now, now, now I don't like it.
00:23:44.620
But before I was like indifferent and, and my youngest son, he's like, he's as white as
00:23:54.800
And I'm like, part of me almost feels like, well, we should probably name, rename him because
00:24:00.180
like poor little guy's going to have a Hawaiian name and they're going to call him Howley forever.
00:24:03.920
But, but it's, it's, man, it's amazing how that is though.
00:24:07.820
Like, I wish I could wake, I could find the study and maybe I'll find the study.
00:24:11.100
If you guys want message me and I'll get this, this study for you.
00:24:14.620
But it was fascinating where they, they took a group of individuals and added a scar on their
00:24:21.040
face and then had them go through interviews with like a fake makeup scar to determine if
00:24:28.720
they were going to do, to be discrim, discriminated against.
00:24:34.340
And what they ended up doing is they said, oh, we're going to, we're going to touch it up before.
00:24:38.340
And what they ended up doing is they took half the group and removed the scar completely,
00:24:42.800
but they thought they had a scar on their face.
00:24:48.020
And then the other group didn't have the scar, but they thought they did.
00:24:52.740
So they, they had these, these double blind study.
00:24:56.460
All the people that didn't think they had the scar was not discriminated against every
00:25:01.680
single person that thought they had a scar, even though they didn't, thought they were
00:25:16.760
You'll, you'll create all kinds of crazy stories in your life about how you're being treated
00:25:22.980
It'll, I, I strongly believe that self-fulfilling prophecy probably accounts for like 80% of
00:25:31.140
We're looking for evidence, you know, all the time.
00:25:36.380
That was a, that was a lot on that one question.
00:25:54.280
Six, six, uh, but, but still haven't found that connection.
00:25:58.400
What are your thoughts on helping to build that bond?
00:26:03.120
I can tell you, I, that happened to me with my biological daughter.
00:26:10.200
She's about to turn 18 and we've gotten the closest we've ever been in the last few months.
00:26:21.580
Some it's, we already talked to it a little bit as far as hindsight, no, would you do anything
00:26:28.140
Like, I get that the way it is, but did you think there's anything you could have done
00:26:31.880
different to create a connection better earlier on?
00:26:34.360
Um, no, and it's not that it was a poor connection.
00:26:39.080
It just, it never maybe felt like we were just talking about projecting on how it should
00:26:46.240
It's, I, I've always wanted her to be a little more huggy or maybe a little more appreciative
00:26:50.880
or maybe a little, you know, I love you, dad, or one of those things.
00:27:00.540
And she's becoming more, um, I guess you could say, I wouldn't say loving, but more
00:27:07.880
expressive of her love than she has been in the past.
00:27:13.480
And I think it's just, she's moving into a different phase of her life and that happens
00:27:19.380
to people, you know, some, sometimes emotions wise, we expect our kids or the people around
00:27:26.880
us to be more like us and react like us, but she's a different person.
00:27:32.780
And so maybe she's not going to react and, and love you the way that you love her.
00:27:37.700
So all you can do is just keep loving her and make sure that she knows that and make
00:27:43.740
And so I, I don't see myself saying, I love you to my daughter any more, any less than
00:27:51.900
I just know that I always have, whether she's responded or not.
00:27:56.080
And so I would say, just keep it up, keep loving her.
00:27:59.120
Fitting her like your own being that example, like we talked about, don't try and replace
00:28:04.100
And he didn't mention the situation with her biological dad and if he's around or if she
00:28:13.800
You just do what you can do and control and be the best father you can be and father figure
00:28:20.120
you can be in her life and let the rest land where it lands.
00:28:30.660
And I recommended this actually a couple of weeks ago.
00:28:34.180
And, and it's funny cause I've gotten messages back from Cody and a couple of the guys like,
00:28:43.140
So, well there's a book by the Harbinger Institute called the anatomy of peace, outward mindset
00:28:52.660
Those books are actually based upon the concepts of this book.
00:28:56.640
So if you're looking for a read, I would read that book, the anatomy of peace.
00:29:00.780
And, and one of the things in that book that they talk about is, and they call it like the
00:29:07.780
And it, and I'm just saying a different way of what Sean already said, but we often approach
00:29:13.780
relationships from the perspective of if, you know, if our kid's not meeting our expectations,
00:29:21.980
Like they need to pivot and, and express love differently in a line or whatever.
00:29:30.140
And, and if you and I think about that, how does that feel?
00:29:33.980
If I think, if I get the gist that Sean expects me to be differently than the way I am for us
00:29:41.280
to have a relationship translation for a teenager, you don't love me.
00:29:51.140
And, and so we need, they're not good enough, right?
00:29:57.640
And, and we really need to get clear in our heads that like, and I, I, I, I liked this
00:30:06.160
They're perfect and just love them where they are.
00:30:14.380
We have to actually really truly believe that see them as whole and complete and, and do
00:30:20.020
the effort to foster a stronger relationship with them.
00:30:22.720
Listen, continually to learn about who they are, what their thoughts are without judgment.
00:30:28.320
And then over time, they'll come to you for guidance and direction.
00:30:33.400
But, but unless they know that you have an established relationship and there's a level
00:30:37.720
of love and care there, that's agnostic of how they show up in the world, we're not in
00:30:46.900
And one other thing, Will, that just to consider us having strong relationships with those that
00:30:51.880
have a relationship with them is super, super critical.
00:30:55.680
So the, the difficult one is like teenage friends.
00:30:58.720
Do you think I'm in a better position with my son?
00:31:04.240
To your case, Will, do you think you have a higher chance of, of relationship with your
00:31:11.320
If her dad thinks you're a good guy, that you're aligned with mom, those are people of
00:31:18.540
influence in her life, whether you like it or not, they have a strong influence.
00:31:23.740
You need to make sure those relationships are trued up as well.
00:31:29.140
Just to just as a side note, like that doesn't mean that you're like smoke pot with
00:31:34.100
them and let them drink at your house and, you know, do that or, or whatever.
00:31:39.700
Teenagers think that's what a cool dad is, right?
00:31:42.440
Because as you said that it's, it's, um, uh, have them, have them think that you're the
00:31:51.020
cool dad in a sense that you're kind that you, yeah, that, that they respect you, that
00:31:56.680
you acknowledge them, that you acknowledge them as their friends and, and, and as a part
00:32:06.180
It doesn't mean you still can't be strict and have rules and things like that, because,
00:32:10.380
you know, I think I'm fairly strict in the things that I do, but simultaneously, I think
00:32:14.440
all of my kids' friends think that I'm a cool dad, right?
00:32:18.880
I ask them about them and their lives and what's going on and how are they're doing?
00:32:27.320
And I'll never do those things, but when they come over, I asked them about them, right?
00:32:31.980
As if, if I had adults come over and I wanted to know about them and get to know them and
00:32:41.900
And here's the thing, you're girls are hard anyways, and you're probably never really going
00:32:50.540
to get the appreciation from them until they're much older.
00:32:53.900
And I can tell you, I watched this happen with my wife, where, when we got married, her stepdad
00:32:59.900
walked her down the aisle and it says nothing to her dad, not being her, her biological dad,
00:33:05.740
not being a good dad, not being around, not being whatever.
00:33:08.740
She just felt that in that moment, it was, it was more important to her to have her stepdad
00:33:16.840
walk her down the aisle when we got married, you know, and her, and her dad was unable to
00:33:22.480
And there was other things, but I'll tell you what, when she asked her stepdad, he literally
00:33:30.220
He was, it was unexpected, but it was just proof that she was just so grateful for everything
00:33:37.980
And he wasn't, he's not the type of guy who really always showed her love and affection
00:33:42.300
and said, I love you all the time and things like that, but he didn't have to because she
00:33:48.900
And so not that he should have the expectation that that's going to happen with his stepdaughter,
00:33:54.240
But that you just never know you're making an impact.
00:33:58.260
If you're doing it right, you're making an impact deeper than she's ever going to tell
00:34:03.460
I think next question, Wade Marshall, uh, sorry, Wade, uh, is it dams or dames dames?
00:34:15.300
I had a pretty awful father figure at home and had a lot of anger because of it.
00:34:20.260
I've gotten better for the, for my last couple of kids.
00:34:24.280
Thanks in part to this movement, what can I do to repair the relationship with my older
00:34:32.100
I've, I've dealt with this, just realizing that how I was parented, I grew up with a
00:34:43.560
He's, he's yelled at me one cool dad, got you a beer and pot.
00:34:49.920
He didn't do any of that, but he was more, I was with him every other weekend.
00:34:53.760
And a lot of those weekends we miss cause he was working or something, you know, just
00:35:00.760
And my mom used to resent that cause he, we'd go dirt bike in and camping and, you know,
00:35:06.720
And, and it was a, it was an overall good experience, but I can remember like the one
00:35:13.260
time he yelled at me and called me a dumb ass, I think.
00:35:15.900
And, and I was walking across the street with a, with the ice chest that I was carrying and
00:35:20.900
I was kind of walking and cars were coming instead of hurrying up, you know, and, and,
00:35:26.460
and, and it was something like, you know, hurry up, you dumb ass.
00:35:29.800
And, and that hurts so much because he never said, my mom said stuff like that to me all the
00:35:39.720
Um, but it was, I was with my mom in 98% of the time.
00:35:45.560
And so she was, I mean, honestly abusive with her words and guilt and all of these things.
00:35:52.800
And I got hit by her and my grant, I lived with my grandma for a while.
00:35:57.580
It was like, they, I would get hit and yelled at, and I thought that's how you parent.
00:36:03.160
And so I would catch myself doing that with my kids and it worse with my older two than
00:36:12.380
with my younger two, but I still have to catch myself in my anger.
00:36:19.000
And so the two things that have helped me, number one, saying, you're sorry.
00:36:23.980
And it sounds like number two, you're already ahead of the game is catching yourself.
00:36:34.060
And so figure out, catch yourself in those moments, apologize again, and then let them
00:36:44.000
And so to your older kids, all you can say is, Hey, look, you know what?
00:36:49.340
I, we can't change the past and I'm really sorry, but I want you guys to know that I'm
00:36:58.620
And as an example to you in my pursuit of being a better father is be better moving forward.
00:37:05.140
And so I'm going to try and catch myself in my anger.
00:37:08.120
I'm going to try and catch myself in my words and it's not going to be perfect, but I do
00:37:13.560
want you to know that I'm working on it and I want to be better for you.
00:37:18.480
And I may not have been the best up until this point, but I owe it to you to be better.
00:37:25.340
And so just know that I'm working on it and, and they'll see that and they'll appreciate
00:37:33.040
And when they do let's make those moments where you say, thank you, instead of getting
00:37:41.580
And so it's, you know, it's a process, but I think you're ahead of the curve by already
00:37:50.980
Like it, I'm not saying that, that your awful father figure doesn't play a part in
00:37:57.080
defining you, but be careful not to have that come across like an excuse to them.
00:38:01.660
Just own you, agnostic of, of, of your parenting, right?
00:38:07.200
The minute you do it, well, my dad, you know what I mean?
00:38:11.280
That's how it's going to be perceived, even if you're not doing that.
00:38:17.220
Related to this, I, and just maybe, maybe a call to action.
00:38:20.780
Cause I, I don't think I have much to add to what you said, Sean, but Wayne and everybody
00:38:36.660
My kids know they love me, but something went unaddressed and you should own it.
00:38:49.140
If something is unaddressed, it's not completed, whether it's our older kids or even Wade,
00:38:55.840
if it's even with your father, clean it up and complete it.
00:39:01.460
And, and when we complete things, I want to be really clear.
00:39:05.100
We don't go into them with, Hey, Sean, I just wanted to explain because my dad treated me
00:39:15.360
Talk about taking zero ownership and just passing the buck.
00:39:21.880
The way that would look is like, Hey, Sean, you know, it's been bothering me.
00:39:32.240
You have my commitment moving forward, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:37.520
I love you committed to, you know, becoming a better man.
00:39:49.240
Now, also, if you don't mind me suggesting Wayne, like, or Wade, like even if we're incomplete
00:40:07.960
It's not a, Hey, Sean, when you showed up this way and you did these things, it made
00:40:18.560
So if Sean was, and I, I don't know why I'm using you, Sean.
00:40:23.940
It's kind of weird as an example, but let me just try to work through this.
00:40:27.340
But if, if Sean was hurtful to me, I go to Sean owning my response.
00:40:36.580
I go, Hey, Sean, man, I want to apologize and restore my integrity with you.
00:40:41.680
When this happened in our past, I interpret it as you not caring.
00:40:49.040
And since then I've withdrawn, I've stonewalled you.
00:41:00.460
And what you did wrong is withholding your relationship from someone.
00:41:07.620
So even in Wade's father's figure scenario, I would literally say the, almost the same
00:41:19.200
I interpret a lot of your actions as that you weren't caring and that you didn't love me.
00:41:27.640
And because of that, I withdrew from you as your son.
00:41:33.740
And maybe they'll ask for their forgiveness from their, on their part.
00:41:40.080
And that's how you get whole and complete with broken relationships, whether they're
00:41:54.740
The only thing I would caution in is maybe you do that with your dad and he calls you a
00:42:01.280
Like maybe, maybe that's, maybe that's the reaction, right?
00:42:04.380
Well, that's on you and it could, but you did what you could.
00:42:18.000
Maybe it doesn't, but it's more important and, and how you project and how you show up
00:42:22.820
with, with your kids and how they see and feel and how you communicate with them in that
00:42:34.900
How do you balance and navigate being a new business owner and your family?
00:42:38.960
At the end of the day, family matters most, but my business is what allows my wife to
00:42:45.580
That is the number one question I get from the, the people that, that I coach and mentor is
00:43:00.180
And so the majors always come down to communication and scheduling.
00:43:06.960
And, and first what's important and prioritizing hip, you talked about being lazy.
00:43:15.440
And as you said it, I had the thought of, well, I'm lazy.
00:43:25.920
There's a, there's a chapter on thrift and industry.
00:43:29.040
And he says something along the lines of, we'd all rather play a little loaf, a little, you
00:43:36.860
know, do little, but there's satisfaction that comes in industry and being industrious and
00:43:51.120
And so we have to set aside the things that are fun to do sometimes or easy to do in pursuit
00:44:06.580
So if you want the best version of your life, you have to get rid of some things that maybe
00:44:12.600
Maybe that's a, uh, you know, a, a Friday night softball league that you're a part of,
00:44:19.100
or maybe it's a bowling league, or maybe it's some football that you watch on the weekends.
00:44:25.420
I don't know what it is, but in pursuit of balancing those more important things, you
00:44:31.900
might have to drop some stuff that can sidetrack you or that doesn't help in those pursuits.
00:44:38.460
And so prioritizing, communicating that with your spouse of what those important things
00:44:45.520
are, and then the scheduling of all of it, because all of it can get done.
00:44:51.500
And especially if you're on the same page and in those same pursuits together and the
00:45:01.880
Um, but I know for my wife and I, we have weekly meetings, every Sunday, we just did
00:45:06.220
it yesterday going over the schedule of what's going to be happening this week.
00:45:11.080
Who needs to be where at what times, what appointments do we have?
00:45:21.160
And that includes the whole family now with my daughter driving and everything else.
00:45:25.380
Um, and then we're all on the same page and then every day it's before we go to bed at
00:45:37.980
Who's doing what and making sure everybody's clear in that.
00:45:41.980
And it doesn't mean things still won't come up, but I couldn't imagine it without that
00:45:48.340
But that, that night before making sure that we don't get caught up in just being busy,
00:45:56.320
that all of our busy work and all of the work that we're putting in are on the important
00:46:02.860
And then if there's extra time after most of those important things, then we do the other
00:46:09.860
I think because people don't know what they want.
00:46:15.160
They just end up doing a bunch of stuff that doesn't really serve their family.
00:46:19.900
And that's when it gets overwhelming and you feel like you're not getting stuff done.
00:46:24.620
It's because it's not being communicated and, and the important things aren't getting done
00:46:30.900
So Mike Nebucher has a related question really around presence.
00:46:37.440
He says, how do you navigate being a father that is present in your kid's life while spending
00:46:41.340
the time necessary to grow a business volunteer, be there for the men on my back.
00:46:45.160
And all the things that we need to do to be good men.
00:46:47.780
So like what extra things, because I think what Mike's kind of bringing up to be frank
00:46:54.400
We could do the communication, but we're still lacking presence, right?
00:46:59.020
So what, what recommendations from that perspective?
00:47:01.440
I like this question because it says, you know, my volunteering that my, I, my battle team
00:47:10.440
And I see too many men put, when I think of volunteering, I think of like my calling in
00:47:18.420
And so I see too many men put that before their family, too many men put maybe the men
00:47:24.800
in the IC before their kids, too many put their jobs even before that.
00:47:31.680
And this comes in line with the, you know, the first question of that pays the bills though.
00:47:39.260
You can sit, maybe the time is you'd spend 20 minutes at night.
00:47:45.320
I, I made this initially where I told my wife, you know, I'm going to put the kids to bed
00:47:53.260
And then I started spending 10 to 15 minutes, just asking about their day, how things were
00:47:59.820
going, how things are going with their friends, what they did, what was good in that day, what
00:48:07.140
And what I found is it would take me about an hour to get them all down to bed, but those
00:48:15.840
Like looking back at it, it, it, it, it was such a simple thing that I just had to put
00:48:24.520
And then through those conversations, I knew what was important to them coming up.
00:48:29.880
And so I mentioned the scheduling, I could put that in.
00:48:33.040
And then I started being able to combine them and being able to do things and, you know,
00:48:38.240
almost navigating to where people at church realize like, really, what are the most important?
00:48:43.300
And so my calling now, my church is with the young men, like I just last week at all last
00:48:47.840
week, I was, I, I helped run our young men's camp for 60 young men, you know, in, in our
00:48:56.660
And that's my calling in the church, but I, two of my boys were in that camp.
00:49:01.840
And so I was spending that time with them and it was important.
00:49:05.900
And so all of it has kind of intermingled because people know the importance of what
00:49:16.880
I'm, I'm contributing in, in the IC and doing those things, but had a conversation with Ryan
00:49:23.100
And that was not going to be the typical way that people, uh, engage in the IC and Ryan's
00:49:35.280
And I'm in a, in a mentor capacity and doing what I can to, to ensure that, um, we're growing
00:49:42.340
this movement, but it doesn't supersede every other thing I have going on in my life, but
00:49:53.640
Well, I hope, you know, no, I think that's good.
00:49:56.740
But, you know, you mentioned something, Sean, I don't want to spend too much time on it.
00:50:01.000
We, we, I do want to cover one more question before we wrap up.
00:50:05.760
You use the analogy of guys will put the iron council first, right?
00:50:10.100
They'll, they'll put their work for still put these other things first.
00:50:13.500
And I was reading some content, actually, uh, literally the last couple of days that, that
00:50:19.560
most men, if, if they were going to describe what love is to them, it often looks and feels
00:50:30.140
And isn't it quite ironic that where do we easily spend more time are more likely in
00:50:39.720
the areas that we feel respected, where we feel loved, right?
00:50:46.620
And so, and it's fascinating how men, you know, it's like, oh, my husband's never home.
00:50:52.500
You know, he's working all the time or, um, spends more time in the office than coming
00:50:57.400
home or when he comes home, he's like checked out, but he lightens up at work.
00:51:02.340
Because it's the easier area to feel appreciated.
00:51:10.040
And so we gravitate to those areas that we feel quote unquote loved.
00:51:15.760
Now, I don't say that from the perspective of like, woe is us.
00:51:20.300
So keep everyone, you know, be a victim of that and just stay in the office where you feel
00:51:26.780
Well, I'm not saying that, but be aware of that, right?
00:51:32.640
Why is it easy for me to stay at the office and not go home?
00:51:37.780
It's because I don't feel it appreciated maybe, right?
00:51:44.540
And now what are you doing to ensure that you are feeling that way at home, that you
00:51:50.280
are feeling respected and, and double down to resolve that, not necessarily step away
00:51:55.940
from it and, and get that where it's easier is, is what I'm kind of suggesting.
00:52:02.600
So don't, don't be passive and take the easy road of like, well, you know, I'll just double
00:52:07.880
down in these areas where I might feel more appreciated.
00:52:13.680
And if that's missing at home, if that's a tendency, uh, then we need to get after that.
00:52:19.500
The, the other thing that I wanted to say that you mentioned, Sean is sometimes it's
00:52:33.680
I never watch a full game of anything, um, but I love sports kind of a dilemma for me.
00:52:43.700
So I pull up YouTube and I watch the 10 minute highlight of a football game or a basketball
00:52:49.100
And now all of a sudden, like I watched the game and I'll even like super silly, not
00:52:54.620
So then I'll watch the highlight going, Ooh, I wonder who's going to win in like 10 minutes.
00:53:04.480
So, but that's how I get my quote unquote sports in.
00:53:22.400
I don't even know if he really watches half of them, but he'll remind me like, Oh, top 10
00:53:27.760
And we'll like sit down and we'll watch top 10 plays before we go to bed.
00:53:32.840
Sometimes our presence with our kids is us involving them and getting kind of creative
00:53:43.000
And, and I'll be, it sounds, it sucks, but it's worth it.
00:53:46.840
You know, I, I needed to build a doc yesterday and I could have gotten the doc done, done in
00:53:54.100
probably half the time than it took, but I wanted my daughter to help build a doc.
00:54:05.460
I like, I drilled all the holes and then she ran the screws and it took forever.
00:54:10.500
It was, I know I had to like, Oh, this is going to take for like, this is not that hard.
00:54:18.480
This is not the efficient way to, but she, she enjoyed it.
00:54:28.960
And then she felt highly satisfied and accomplished.
00:54:31.600
And she did something hard and she used some power tools that she was nervous about using,
00:54:40.300
So like, I don't know, any power tools she's like nervous about.
00:54:46.880
Another example, probably the time where my wife and I are connecting the most is when
00:54:52.840
we go running because then we talk the whole time and then we're like caught up on our day.
00:55:03.300
We would do it driving if my kids, but I mentioned my daughter before she would open up the least
00:55:13.220
And so instead of that, I transitioned it into, okay, if you're not going to open up
00:55:17.580
with me at night, when we say our prayers, I'm going to drive you to everything.
00:55:22.100
And then guess what's going to happen during the drive.
00:55:24.400
I didn't tell her that, but everywhere we drove, then it was like, Hey, what's going on?
00:55:31.040
And instead of the radio being on and letting her be on her phone or whatever it was,
00:55:35.740
we were engaged in conversation and that's where it came out.
00:55:39.080
It just became, she didn't think something was up or I was tricking her or anything like
00:55:43.800
It was just, yeah, it was just every time we drove anywhere that became where we connected
00:55:57.860
I've said things to my son and daughter that I hated hearing when I was a kid.
00:56:01.900
I had a mentally abusive father and lots of his harmful words and his disappointment voice
00:56:13.720
I've tried over the years to not let that voice of my abusive father shine through in
00:56:21.100
I even feel horrible as soon as his words leave my mouth.
00:56:24.380
It's not the norm, but I still, those words and that tone hurt them badly.
00:56:31.600
I apologize profusely, profusely, but the hurt sticks with them just like it did with
00:56:40.660
What advice would you offer to help me and guys like me in similar circumstances?
00:56:46.080
I think we addressed this a little bit earlier on when we were talking about the guy with
00:56:54.060
And as I mentioned with my mom, I catch myself with that where, where my family, and I won't
00:57:02.380
say my mom, cause my entire family is this way, was abusive on my mom's side is that they're
00:57:11.400
And so everybody just, it was an endearing dragging on each other constantly.
00:57:19.480
Like you go to Thanksgiving and it's like, no one says, Hey, how you been?
00:57:25.520
It's like, that's the, that's the way they address each other.
00:57:28.600
And that was normal and constant sarcasm, constant.
00:57:38.900
I only laugh because I can relate, but yeah, it's just, it, and that's the way I grew up.
00:57:45.200
And so I have to constantly stop myself from doing it to my kids and I do it still constantly.
00:57:54.340
Now you mentioned earlier, not using that as the excuse, but I think there is some importance
00:57:59.960
to letting them know, letting them know, like, Hey, you know what?
00:58:08.280
And I, I probably made you feel kind of dumb by saying it that way.
00:58:13.760
I just, it's, it's the only way that anyone in my family communicated to me as a kid.
00:58:21.940
And so it's my automatic reflex to say things like that.
00:58:27.280
And I'd want you to know, I didn't mean it that way and it was wrong and I'm sorry.
00:58:33.740
And I'm really working on not doing it anymore.
00:58:37.700
And, but I, if you see me doing it, I give you a full permission to call me on it and
00:58:46.400
say, Hey, you're not supposed to talk that way.
00:58:51.720
And I'll do my best to not get angry because I'm trying to get better.
00:58:56.400
I really am working on it and it's difficult for me.
00:59:00.540
And, um, and I don't want you to have the same experience as you start having kids, you
00:59:06.080
know, where you just start to parent that way, because that's what you had.
00:59:10.440
So yeah, don't use it as an excuse, but sometimes having the conversation so they at least understand
00:59:15.760
that you're not doing it to be harmful, that sometimes it's just all, you know.
00:59:21.700
Um, but again, I think the most important part is them knowing and understanding that
00:59:27.280
I think too many of us, and especially men aren't willing to tell our kids and our spouses
00:59:38.320
and the people that are important to us in our lives that we're wrong or that we're at
00:59:47.820
It's like, we almost want to do it secretly for some reason.
00:59:51.080
And so I think just that disclosure is important and that you do it together and, and simultaneously,
01:00:02.860
you know, it's, you can't expect them to be perfect either.
01:00:09.500
I do it with my kids where we have good back and forth and they call me on things.
01:00:13.600
And when they call me on it, most of the time, honestly, now we laugh together.
01:00:25.360
And, uh, and then now we're getting to the point where we can laugh about it more, but
01:00:30.280
it's been years where before they were hurt more by it.
01:00:34.040
And now we can laugh about it a little bit more.
01:00:37.160
And then now we catch each other in those things as a family.
01:00:41.320
And the pursuit is eventually get to where none of us say those hurtful things to each
01:00:45.920
I don't know if we'll ever get there, but at least it doesn't feel as bad as it used
01:00:50.720
So it's, you know, you know, when I, um, when I think about like biblical stories or you
01:00:57.580
hear like old times, so like people had demons in them, you know what I mean?
01:01:01.620
I, I, I think this is the modern version of that.
01:01:06.780
I really do like where Greg and I, and Greg, I can relate where, where you, you have like
01:01:25.820
You sound just like him and it's like disgraceful in your mind.
01:01:39.120
I think we answered this and I wish Kip could finish his thoughts on it.
01:01:44.000
So today was a good conversation, good questions, and obviously focused on fatherhood and I hope
01:01:52.480
they were helpful to you guys at the very least, Kip mentioned it earlier.
01:01:56.340
If, if not, I know it's helpful to me every single week that I get better through these
01:02:02.400
conversations, through these questions and through our thought and the answers to those.
01:02:06.440
And I know the IC was mentioned and right now it's open to get signed up in the IC and I
01:02:17.780
If you want to have more of these conversations, more of this interaction with high caliber men
01:02:23.640
that are trying to improve themselves, that are trying to be better, sign up and just go
01:02:30.600
on order a man.com, click on the iron council and get signed up.
01:02:36.440
And in the meantime, go out and become the man that you were meant to be.
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Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
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You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
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We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.