Order of Man - Projecting Expectations on Others, Strengthening the Father-Daughter Relationship, and Overcoming Influence from an Abusive Father ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.980 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.380 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, or strong.

00:00:15.440 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.660 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:25.000 John, we do it again. How you doing, sir? How was your Father's Day?

00:00:28.840 Father's Day was great. We were talking last week about your vision and what you want to feel like and had one of those moments on Father's Day where I just made myself block out a time where it was just going to chill and enjoy all the work, all everything.

00:00:49.380 Yeah, we went down to our pond and fished, and so we were down there catching largemouth with the kids and sitting on the deck and just enjoying everything.

00:00:59.920 And it was kind of what we talked about with how you feel about your boat and your house and that vision for what you want.

00:01:07.300 That's not done yet.

00:01:08.120 Way to rub it in, Sean. Yeah, way to rub it in. I'm not experiencing any of that.

00:01:12.100 I'm just joking.

00:01:14.820 But all of those, you know, we get busy and we're constantly moving and in a direction somewhere when we have that vision.

00:01:23.780 And sometimes it's actually hard for people to sit back and enjoy it, especially when it becomes a habit of just being on the go towards your next thing.

00:01:31.880 And it was just nice to sit back and enjoy it and have one of those moments of, man, I've thought about this so many times about this happening and just sitting there with my wife and watching the kids.

00:01:44.300 And it was just awesome.

00:01:46.380 How about you?

00:01:46.680 That is awesome.

00:01:48.120 You know, it's well, before I say what I did, you bring up a point.

00:01:52.640 You know, I think, I think it's safe to say that most men, I shouldn't say most, a lot of men are lazy.

00:02:01.660 They come home, they flip on the TV, they watch sports, they're disconnected from their families, their fitness is an utter mess.

00:02:10.500 They're not presiding or leading in front in any particular way.

00:02:14.540 And they're doing the bare minimum, right, to stay employed and the bare minimum not to have their wife leave them.

00:02:21.480 And that's maybe the status quo.

00:02:23.500 I would assume that is probably the majority of men, unfortunately.

00:02:27.760 However, in the circle that we have within order of men and the Iron Council, and I'm sure you being a high caliber individual, Sean, and the people you surround yourself with, we have the opposite problem, which is the problem that you just mentioned, is sometimes we don't stop and go, man, you know what?

00:02:45.500 Life is good and to be grateful, you know what I mean?

00:02:49.260 Because we're always like, okay, do better, work out better, get my fitness better, work better.

00:02:55.280 And, and to be frank, you know, to your point, we should stop a little bit more often and, and, and appreciate what we have, be grateful for what we have, and then get back to work.

00:03:05.140 That's true, which is actually what happened.

00:03:11.400 That's funny.

00:03:12.160 That evening, at least.

00:03:14.440 Yeah.

00:03:15.160 So my father's day, it was okay.

00:03:17.120 It was good.

00:03:18.040 I mean, don't get me, I, how's that to kick off my lack of gratitude?

00:03:22.820 So, no, it went down to Delta and just worked and, you know, hung out with, with the kids a little bit, probably made people work too much and didn't enjoy as much as I should have.

00:03:36.640 I had this plan.

00:03:37.720 I thought on Sunday, I was like, oh, well, Sunday I'll take a chill.

00:03:41.200 And then it was super windy and a little bit colder.

00:03:43.680 And then it just wasn't as ideal.

00:03:46.260 So, but had my wife had her, her stepdad and her father over and her brother and all the ladies, you know, brought desserts. 0.99

00:03:56.860 And we just kind of hung out last night and, and just kind of chilled around the house.

00:04:00.800 So it was good.

00:04:02.320 So that's nice.

00:04:03.520 But yeah, yeah, it wasn't bad.

00:04:06.280 So I, it's one of those things though, right?

00:04:10.140 Like, I think for me, it's like, it's hard not to be done, like to complete something.

00:04:16.740 If that makes sense.

00:04:17.980 Like I, I'm always uneasy if things are unfinished or like, Hey, there's stuff that needs to get done.

00:04:24.740 Let's get that done before we sit back and enjoy our fruits.

00:04:29.200 The problem with me though, is there's nothing's ever not done.

00:04:34.780 I was just going to say that.

00:04:36.660 When is anything ever done?

00:04:38.500 No, no, no, no, none at all.

00:04:42.760 It never happens.

00:04:43.980 But for some odd reason, I keep thinking that, uh, you know, Sean, I just, you know, let me get it done.

00:04:50.020 Let me get it done.

00:04:51.040 And then I'll relax.

00:04:52.220 So, yeah, yeah, maybe that's my next lot, my next life lesson to figure out how to balance.

00:04:58.600 So what does done mean?

00:05:01.560 And you mentioned last week on guys retiring that have all this stuff to do after they retire, because really, in my opinion, if you, if you're doing it right, there's always stuff to do.

00:05:14.940 So, I mean, really, what a waste of life to just loathe around.

00:05:19.240 I mean, you can only sit on a beach and get fat for so long before you start feeling like it's a waste and you got to get to doing something.

00:05:27.720 I mean, that's what I see with, with most people too.

00:05:30.700 And they're in their planning for their future that one of the big questions I asked as they get closer is, Hey, what are you going to do?

00:05:38.620 And it catches them off guard most of the time.

00:05:40.880 And they're like, well, what do you mean?

00:05:41.880 I'm going to be able to pay my bills.

00:05:43.200 I'm going to travel.

00:05:44.000 I'm going to do that.

00:05:44.520 And I'm like, but yeah, what does that mean?

00:05:47.000 What else are you going to do?

00:05:48.120 What are you going to do in the meantime?

00:05:49.400 What are you going to do in between?

00:05:50.540 And almost no one thinks about that.

00:05:53.480 And it kind of racks them when they get to the, they figure out the financial part and then it's like, okay, what do I really want to do?

00:06:00.040 Right.

00:06:01.160 Yeah, totally.

00:06:02.380 Well, and it's, you know, I think it related to that is this idea that we set some expectations of enjoyment of at the end of things and then choose not to live, you know, why we're building the house.

00:06:21.340 We choose not to live while we're trying to get our financial house in order.

00:06:25.940 And we think on, on realistically that somehow when those things are a quote unquote done, then, right.

00:06:35.780 Then, then I'll, then I'll be happy.

00:06:37.960 Then I'll enjoy life.

00:06:38.880 You'll be fulfilled.

00:06:39.920 Yeah.

00:06:40.460 Then, then our marriage will be better once she does these things, right?

00:06:44.120 Like we set all these expectations, um, of how great life's going to be in the future based upon a lot of the time, based upon circumstances outside our realm of control.

00:06:57.140 Uh, and then we don't live waiting for that, uh, for that happiness to magically show up when things get done.

00:07:04.420 Right.

00:07:04.700 So it reminds me of that quote, um, I think it was Hinckley is years ago, but like, you know, says, you know, something to the extent that like most kids just grow up to be standard adults.

00:07:17.360 Most beef is kind of tough.

00:07:20.280 Most jobs require a lot of work and effort, you know, and that the trick of an enjoyment of life is to enjoy the ride, you know, not necessarily to finish it, you know?

00:07:31.980 Um, so I I'm saying this all to myself, everybody, I'm not projecting this as I'm, as I'm reminders, what I need to know.

00:07:41.340 Yeah.

00:07:41.820 So, yeah.

00:07:43.120 Isn't that ironic that half the time when we talk on this thing, I'm like constantly like, yeah, this is just an echo chamber for me to be listening to myself.

00:07:50.540 So anyhow, well, all you fathers, uh, we know it was a few days ago, but, uh, happy father's day.

00:07:58.440 Um, you know, I, I really contemplated, um, I mean, don't get me wrong.

00:08:06.480 It's good to celebrate fatherhood.

00:08:09.260 Um, but I really feel like the thing that should be happening is that we shouldn't be celebrating fatherhood as much as discussing the importance of it.

00:08:19.940 Um, because I, I really do believe that, um, a lot of men and women for that matter, uh, don't appreciate, uh, the impact that fathers really truly have.

00:08:34.160 Um, I mean, if we want to statistically go into, you know, the probability of children having success in life, the probability of them going to jail or staying out of jail, um, you can pretty much, I think you can pretty much align most social world issues to fatherless homes.

00:08:57.980 Absolutely.

00:08:58.540 And so it is such a big deal and it's a big deal for multiple parties too, right?

00:09:04.720 Cause I, I think sometimes it's, you know, we get in our own heads, you know, I, I think any father that's been divorced, um, you know, you might be running your story about how your ex makes it so hard for you to see the kids.

00:09:18.720 And maybe they don't love you anymore because they've abandoned you or whatever that is.

00:09:23.480 And you're not fighting for your fatherhood.

00:09:26.700 And to be frank, I think there's the majority of ex-wives that want to replace you that. 1.00

00:09:35.800 And they think that you can be replaced that they'll just find the other, the other guy and they'll be dad and it will be the same to their kids.

00:09:44.540 That's the, the ultimate lie.

00:09:46.380 They'll think it's the same, um, at the detriment of their own children, uh, to be frank and their relationship with them.

00:09:53.480 Um, fathers are not replaceable.

00:09:55.800 There's no such a thing.

00:09:57.920 And I think men need to be fighting for their rights as fatherhoods.

00:10:02.400 I think women need to be fighting as well for fathers to, to rise up, but man, it is such a critical issue not to go all negative town on father's day, but, um, it's such a big issue.

00:10:14.140 And I think we, we brush it off.

00:10:16.040 Like it's like, it's not that big of a deal.

00:10:18.620 It's true.

00:10:19.360 And it is a big deal.

00:10:20.380 And even if it's dysfunctional, like you mentioned, I'm glad you said that because even if it's dysfunctional, it's, and you're still around as a father, it's still better there.

00:10:33.320 And you, you absolutely can't replace that father.

00:10:37.620 It's no matter how good.

00:10:40.280 And I do want to say to all the stepdads out there, it doesn't mean that you don't do your best and that you're not trying your hardest and that you're not being the man.

00:10:49.720 That fatherly that those children need in their lives.

00:10:55.320 And that example, it's absolutely critical simultaneously, but it still will never replace their actual father.

00:11:04.900 And that's a, it's a, I don't know if it's genetics, but it's deep rooted.

00:11:09.920 And it's, uh, like you said, the stats are out there.

00:11:13.560 The numbers don't lie.

00:11:15.180 So it is important.

00:11:16.720 Such a big deal.

00:11:17.680 All right.

00:11:19.520 With that note, um, a couple announcements and I'll mention this a little bit later.

00:11:23.800 The iron council is officially open for enrollment for the month, through the month of June.

00:11:29.200 So if you've been on the fence, you want to join us in the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council, uh, to sign up today.

00:11:37.540 We're going to fill the questions on the podcast from our Facebook group.

00:11:40.860 That's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

00:11:43.400 Join us there.

00:11:43.940 If you haven't already, we'll jump into these questions.

00:11:46.480 Mike Collins, as a father whom has lost four children to miscarriage since 2015, is it acceptable to be bothered by people, not including me into their father day thoughts?

00:11:59.360 Or is it that just projecting as I can't expect them to remember as my kids are not standing next

00:12:05.480 to me?

00:12:05.840 Hmm.

00:12:07.680 I being as empathic as I can, we'll say you're projecting because, and here's the thing, not

00:12:21.780 just in your expectation for father's day wishes, but in anything, your expectation that you're

00:12:31.560 going to be recognized for any part of your life is projecting.

00:12:37.160 And so I don't want it to just be on fatherhood.

00:12:40.560 And in saying that I, I actually have a friend who lost four kids inside of three years as well.

00:12:47.880 And so a really good friend.

00:12:50.420 Now they have other children now, but when they talk about their children, they talk about

00:12:56.000 the four that they lost, uh, along with their one son that they, they biologically had.

00:13:02.820 And then they have an adopted son as well, but they talk when they talk about their children

00:13:09.840 in the sense that they have six kids, but they don't expect anybody else to talk about

00:13:15.620 their children in the sense outside of them having two children, if that makes sense.

00:13:20.680 And so it's because here's the thing, people have their own things going on in their own

00:13:27.800 lives and for us to expect them to remember any of the, the so-called strife that we have

00:13:36.000 going on in ours is always going to be projecting.

00:13:39.740 And so now in saying that simultaneously, it doesn't take away the uncomfortable and, and

00:13:49.580 bad and sometimes miserable thoughts that we have when other people are celebrating those

00:13:54.940 things around us.

00:13:55.880 And so it doesn't mean that you shouldn't feel bad, but it also shouldn't mean that, that

00:14:03.540 they should remember and you should expect them to, to give you praise for those things.

00:14:11.640 Totally.

00:14:12.380 I'm glad you brought this up from a outside of just fatherhood.

00:14:16.260 Here's the deal.

00:14:17.300 No one owes you anything.

00:14:19.380 There's no book of life that says that Sean's wife needs to even show him respect.

00:14:27.040 No one owes you anything, period.

00:14:29.880 And it's, and, and Mike, we're going to like, just rag on you a little bit as an example.

00:14:34.560 You know what I mean?

00:14:34.940 So don't take it personal, but the, but the question is a good question.

00:14:38.640 And, but how often do we add so much meaning to stuff, right?

00:14:44.040 In this example, right?

00:14:45.760 It's like, well, people don't, don't consider me a father because they don't think about

00:14:49.200 it.

00:14:49.340 Okay.

00:14:49.680 What's the facts versus your story?

00:14:52.680 Your story is they don't care.

00:14:55.720 They're not thoughtful.

00:14:57.400 They don't appreciate, you know, like it's this loaded thing.

00:15:00.340 Well, what's the facts?

00:15:01.720 They didn't say happy father's day.

00:15:03.520 That's the facts, period.

00:15:04.780 All that other stuff is your creation.

00:15:09.420 We got to be very, very careful on how much meaning or around the should and should nots,

00:15:14.980 right?

00:15:15.160 Well, should people should, people should.

00:15:17.880 Okay, whatever, but they didn't.

00:15:20.340 So now what are you going to do about it?

00:15:22.260 And most importantly, when people don't do what we expect them to do, are you going to

00:15:26.900 just see it for what it is?

00:15:28.240 Are you going to add all this meaning to it?

00:15:30.180 I mean, even think like how often we do this, right?

00:15:33.960 Where we think our boss should do something, our employees, our spouses, our friends, they

00:15:38.840 should or should not do something.

00:15:40.440 And when they don't do it, when they don't meet our expectations, it's not just the story.

00:15:45.240 We just don't end there.

00:15:46.860 We don't go, oh man, that was not really considerate.

00:15:49.520 No, the next time I now see Sean, what do I do?

00:15:52.380 I stonewall him a little bit.

00:15:54.180 I have a grudge.

00:15:55.340 I'm running a story.

00:15:56.560 I'm withholding my friendship from him because I think he should have, should have not done

00:16:01.000 something and he's probably completely unaware of it, man, total projecting.

00:16:07.440 So it just be careful, man.

00:16:08.940 I love that thought.

00:16:09.980 It was like, no one owes you anything, period.

00:16:12.700 They don't have to at all.

00:16:15.220 Now, as you say that Kip, it makes me think if we're talking about empathy, also think that

00:16:23.700 maybe the empathy that they have is they don't want to mention it because it's uncomfortable

00:16:29.100 for you.

00:16:29.680 They've seen it psychologically hurt you and your family and your wife, and they don't

00:16:35.960 want to bring it up maybe because it's painful.

00:16:40.860 And so maybe they're not saying it because of that.

00:16:45.060 And so again, you can't have this false expectation that they should or shouldn't say it because

00:16:49.280 you don't know how they're feeling for whatever reason I thought of, you know, when, when the

00:16:56.020 George Floyd thing was happening, I remember we had a lot of these conversations in the

00:16:59.680 IC and I had this in, you know, another men's group that, that I, that I run and some things

00:17:05.380 that our conversation became for a couple of months of like, Hey, yeah, we're going to

00:17:10.960 support our, our brothers that are black.

00:17:13.720 Right.

00:17:14.160 But we had a lot of conversations from a lot of the white guys that were like, Hey, can we

00:17:18.520 say black?

00:17:19.480 Can we say, do we, should we say African-American remember that?

00:17:22.960 Right.

00:17:23.200 And it was like, there was this thing that people didn't want to say anything because they

00:17:28.660 didn't know how to comfortably say it.

00:17:31.300 And so that happens in these circumstances.

00:17:35.440 And so for us, we just, you know, we have to take whatever as we can with empathy going

00:17:44.960 both ways and understanding that we, we really can't expect people to, to say everything and

00:17:50.960 do everything the way that we want it done.

00:17:53.320 Totally.

00:17:53.980 And, and I, I honestly believe most people are never intentionally causing you misery.

00:18:01.300 No, it's usually a by-product of their own stories, their own chaos, what's happening in

00:18:09.920 their life.

00:18:10.360 And so if Mark here, how's this, there will never be a case.

00:18:15.980 I can guarantee you almost a case where I intentionally am rude to Sean.

00:18:22.300 Now, is there a probability I could certainly, but it's probably out of ignorance, not being

00:18:29.100 aware and other drama in my own life.

00:18:32.260 And it rubs off.

00:18:33.780 And then he interprets it that way.

00:18:35.400 That's, that's how most people operate.

00:18:37.940 Most people are so busy worrying about their own problems that trust me, they're not going

00:18:43.060 out of their way to intentionally offend anybody.

00:18:45.280 And it's usually like an accident or their own story or their, yeah, like their own story

00:18:52.420 about you and how you feel about them is probably the most common scenario that causes people

00:18:57.940 to have problems with you.

00:18:59.200 You know, it's, it's crazy.

00:19:01.540 We're all right.

00:19:02.480 I don't know.

00:19:03.300 I watched this movie last night.

00:19:06.080 It's called Flamin' Hot.

00:19:08.040 And it's the story of, it's called the story of Flamin' Hot.

00:19:11.720 It's the story of Flamin' Hot Cheetos.

00:19:14.300 So it's, it just came out.

00:19:16.000 Yeah.

00:19:16.200 It just came out on Disney+.

00:19:17.620 About how unhealthy and horrible they are?

00:19:20.300 No.

00:19:21.080 About how they came about.

00:19:23.140 Oh, dude, it was so good.

00:19:24.960 And, and the reason it's so good, like I grew up in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood.

00:19:29.400 Right.

00:19:30.100 And so like all my, I had so many friends and families and people I was around that were

00:19:35.640 like this family that this guy was in.

00:19:38.760 And he grew up in the sixties and seventies, you know, where, so he dealt with racism and

00:19:44.940 people, you know, like saying derogatory things because he's Mexican and jobs being harder because

00:19:50.680 he was Mexican and stuff like that.

00:19:51.840 But it was the dude who came up with the idea for Flamin' Hot Cheetos.

00:19:56.080 And he was a janitor working for Frito-Lay.

00:19:59.740 And it was, it's funny.

00:20:01.300 The funny part of the story is that when he talks about these executives and what happened

00:20:08.920 when they had these ideas and things like that, there's these scenes where it's like

00:20:14.920 these old white guys in suits and ties around a board meeting and he tells his version of

00:20:21.720 the story of what they were saying and how they were saying.

00:20:24.680 And he's got like the CEO being like, these bottles aren't, you know, like whatever.

00:20:29.820 And it's so funny, his version, but it's them like, like mouthing it, like lipping it

00:20:36.420 right with his voice.

00:20:38.400 And then he goes back to, it's, it's almost like the, like the screechy record.

00:20:43.300 Right.

00:20:43.680 And he's like, yeah, okay.

00:20:44.980 It actually didn't go down like that, you know, but because he's like, cause they don't

00:20:49.680 have the wavles to do that. 0.92

00:20:50.980 He's like, but here's how it actually went down.

00:20:54.060 And then it shows like the corporate white guy version of what they actually said.

00:20:59.140 And it's, it's nowhere near the same.

00:21:01.960 Right.

00:21:02.500 But dude, I was dying inside because I was like, man, I just love this movie because.

00:21:09.340 And I saw that so much growing up, you know, me being like the way to in our, in the white

00:21:17.720 Mexican in our neighborhood.

00:21:18.960 Right.

00:21:19.460 And I would adhere to that.

00:21:21.220 And what did you just call yourself?

00:21:22.780 What was the, what was the way to, it's like white Mexican, right? 0.99

00:21:27.480 Cause, cause I'm via levels, right.

00:21:29.100 Cause I'm Mexican, like my, my Mexican side of the family, but I obviously don't look like 1.00

00:21:33.160 a Mexican guy and don't speak Spanish or any of that stuff.

00:21:37.140 And so it, it could go both ways.

00:21:39.280 It could be like a derogatory term.

00:21:40.840 It could also be an enduring term, right.

00:21:43.280 And endearing.

00:21:44.320 And so I, I used to hate it.

00:21:48.760 I used to be, I used to hate to be called widow and this movie made me remember that.

00:21:53.880 And it just made me love how I grew up to understand that culture and that side of things.

00:21:59.440 And that you could say a word to somebody and it could go two ways.

00:22:04.540 It could, it could, yeah, it could trigger me.

00:22:06.540 I used to be so mad for so long.

00:22:08.360 And then I grew up and, and, and through maturity realize, you know what, half the time those

00:22:15.240 guys call me, well, it's because they were accepting me into that community, you know,

00:22:21.700 because like, I, I didn't grow up learning Spanish.

00:22:24.560 My, my grandparents were deaf.

00:22:26.040 So we, we spoke, my dad spoke ASL, not Spanish.

00:22:29.320 Like we lost that part of that culture, but I tried and I learned Spanish and, and, you

00:22:35.620 know, and, and that stuff.

00:22:36.560 And, and they accepted me as, as part of that community, you know, but even though I didn't

00:22:42.220 hear it that way as an immature kid, you know, now I hear it differently.

00:22:47.260 And, and just watching that movie made me think of those things, but it also, as we're

00:22:50.980 talking about this, we all have these scenes in our head of how things go down.

00:22:56.840 And sometimes we, we feel it a certain way or think it should be a certain way.

00:23:02.320 And we can project that on others instead of just accepting that it probably didn't go

00:23:06.480 down that way.

00:23:07.380 So, well, it's like, it's, you know, Asia's Hawaiian.

00:23:10.620 And so, you know, obviously people have called me Howley, you know, multiple times and, and

00:23:17.240 I don't, I've never, it never bothered me.

00:23:19.920 I think it started bothering me once I said, well, what does that mean?

00:23:23.580 And it means spiritless.

00:23:25.240 And I was like, what the crap?

00:23:27.680 Like that, I was like, wait, I'm not spiritless.

00:23:31.000 You know what I mean?

00:23:31.740 And then like, we're at a, like a, a Hawaii football game and Oahu and these dudes are like

00:23:39.780 death and Howley's, you know what I mean?

00:23:41.580 I was like, okay, now, now, now I don't like it.

00:23:44.160 You know what I mean?

00:23:44.620 But before I was like indifferent and, and my youngest son, he's like, he's as white as 0.99

00:23:51.300 snow with blonde hair.

00:23:52.620 Right.

00:23:52.920 And his name is Keikoa.

00:23:54.800 And I'm like, part of me almost feels like, well, we should probably name, rename him because

00:24:00.180 like poor little guy's going to have a Hawaiian name and they're going to call him Howley forever.

00:24:03.920 But, but it's, it's, man, it's amazing how that is though.

00:24:07.820 Like, I wish I could wake, I could find the study and maybe I'll find the study.

00:24:11.100 If you guys want message me and I'll get this, this study for you.

00:24:14.620 But it was fascinating where they, they took a group of individuals and added a scar on their

00:24:21.040 face and then had them go through interviews with like a fake makeup scar to determine if

00:24:28.720 they were going to do, to be discrim, discriminated against.

00:24:32.900 Oh, wow.

00:24:33.560 Okay.

00:24:34.340 And what they ended up doing is they said, oh, we're going to, we're going to touch it up before.

00:24:38.340 And what they ended up doing is they took half the group and removed the scar completely,

00:24:42.800 but they thought they had a scar on their face.

00:24:46.320 That makes sense.

00:24:47.100 Weird.

00:24:47.500 Yeah.

00:24:47.780 Yeah.

00:24:48.020 And then the other group didn't have the scar, but they thought they did.

00:24:52.340 Right.

00:24:52.740 So they, they had these, these double blind study.

00:24:55.860 Guess what?

00:24:56.460 All the people that didn't think they had the scar was not discriminated against every

00:25:01.680 single person that thought they had a scar, even though they didn't, thought they were

00:25:05.780 discriminated against due to their scar.

00:25:07.960 Whoa.

00:25:09.280 What a trip.

00:25:10.260 I mean, we create reality.

00:25:12.360 Yeah.

00:25:12.820 Right.

00:25:12.980 If you're looking for it, you'll find it.

00:25:15.100 You'll find it.

00:25:16.760 You'll, you'll create all kinds of crazy stories in your life about how you're being treated

00:25:21.080 unfairly.

00:25:21.580 If that's your story, right.

00:25:22.980 It'll, I, I strongly believe that self-fulfilling prophecy probably accounts for like 80% of

00:25:29.600 all our hardships.

00:25:31.140 We're looking for evidence, you know, all the time.

00:25:34.380 Okay.

00:25:34.720 That's one question.

00:25:35.800 We better get.

00:25:36.180 Yeah.

00:25:36.380 That was a, that was a lot on that one question.

00:25:39.100 Okay.

00:25:39.800 All right.

00:25:40.120 Will Luna.

00:25:41.080 I'm a step.

00:25:42.660 Oh, I'm a stepdad.

00:25:44.140 I'm a step day.

00:25:45.000 I was like, step day.

00:25:45.800 What's the step day.

00:25:46.580 I'm a stepdad to a 14 year old daughter.

00:25:48.980 I've been in her life for eight years.

00:25:50.880 So she was, you know, roughly what?

00:25:54.280 Six, six, uh, but, but still haven't found that connection.

00:25:58.400 What are your thoughts on helping to build that bond?

00:26:03.120 I can tell you, I, that happened to me with my biological daughter.

00:26:10.200 She's about to turn 18 and we've gotten the closest we've ever been in the last few months.

00:26:17.460 It's, it's just, sometimes it's personality.

00:26:21.580 Some it's, we already talked to it a little bit as far as hindsight, no, would you do anything

00:26:26.740 different, Sean?

00:26:28.140 Like, I get that the way it is, but did you think there's anything you could have done

00:26:31.880 different to create a connection better earlier on?

00:26:34.360 Um, no, and it's not that it was a poor connection.

00:26:39.080 It just, it never maybe felt like we were just talking about projecting on how it should

00:26:45.480 feel.

00:26:45.880 Right.

00:26:46.240 It's, I, I've always wanted her to be a little more huggy or maybe a little more appreciative

00:26:50.880 or maybe a little, you know, I love you, dad, or one of those things.

00:26:55.160 You made an unfair expectations on her.

00:26:57.300 Yeah.

00:26:58.240 Personality wise, she just wasn't like that. 0.99

00:27:00.540 And she's becoming more, um, I guess you could say, I wouldn't say loving, but more

00:27:07.880 expressive of her love than she has been in the past.

00:27:13.480 And I think it's just, she's moving into a different phase of her life and that happens

00:27:19.380 to people, you know, some, sometimes emotions wise, we expect our kids or the people around

00:27:26.880 us to be more like us and react like us, but she's a different person.

00:27:32.780 And so maybe she's not going to react and, and love you the way that you love her.

00:27:37.700 So all you can do is just keep loving her and make sure that she knows that and make

00:27:42.380 sure she understands that.

00:27:43.740 And so I, I don't see myself saying, I love you to my daughter any more, any less than

00:27:51.040 I used to.

00:27:51.900 I just know that I always have, whether she's responded or not.

00:27:56.080 And so I would say, just keep it up, keep loving her.

00:27:58.500 Yeah.

00:27:59.120 Fitting her like your own being that example, like we talked about, don't try and replace

00:28:03.660 her.

00:28:04.100 And he didn't mention the situation with her biological dad and if he's around or if she

00:28:09.280 even knows who he is or whatever.

00:28:11.940 But honestly, none of that matters.

00:28:13.800 You just do what you can do and control and be the best father you can be and father figure

00:28:20.120 you can be in her life and let the rest land where it lands.

00:28:26.960 Yeah.

00:28:27.720 I love that.

00:28:28.460 Sean, one of my favorite books.

00:28:30.660 And I recommended this actually a couple of weeks ago.

00:28:34.180 And, and it's funny cause I've gotten messages back from Cody and a couple of the guys like,

00:28:39.700 oh man, that book is like solid books.

00:28:41.840 I'm just going to drop it again.

00:28:43.140 So, well there's a book by the Harbinger Institute called the anatomy of peace, outward mindset

00:28:51.240 and leadership and deception.

00:28:52.660 Those books are actually based upon the concepts of this book.

00:28:56.640 So if you're looking for a read, I would read that book, the anatomy of peace.

00:29:00.780 And, and one of the things in that book that they talk about is, and they call it like the

00:29:06.020 influence triangle or whatever.

00:29:07.780 And it, and I'm just saying a different way of what Sean already said, but we often approach

00:29:13.780 relationships from the perspective of if, you know, if our kid's not meeting our expectations,

00:29:19.900 then they need to change, right?

00:29:21.980 Like they need to pivot and, and express love differently in a line or whatever.

00:29:26.100 And then we'll have a relationship with them.

00:29:30.140 And, and if you and I think about that, how does that feel?

00:29:33.980 If I think, if I get the gist that Sean expects me to be differently than the way I am for us

00:29:41.280 to have a relationship translation for a teenager, you don't love me.

00:29:45.580 Yeah.

00:29:46.840 That's what that is.

00:29:48.040 Yeah.

00:29:48.560 That, that doesn't feel like love.

00:29:51.140 And, and so we need, they're not good enough, right?

00:29:54.080 Yeah.

00:29:54.460 And so let go of, they're not good enough.

00:29:57.640 And, and we really need to get clear in our heads that like, and I, I, I, I liked this

00:30:03.320 term, but they're whole and complete.

00:30:06.160 They're perfect and just love them where they are.

00:30:10.200 And then, and, and here's the key.

00:30:13.040 We can't do this to manipulate.

00:30:14.380 We have to actually really truly believe that see them as whole and complete and, and do

00:30:20.020 the effort to foster a stronger relationship with them.

00:30:22.720 Listen, continually to learn about who they are, what their thoughts are without judgment.

00:30:28.320 And then over time, they'll come to you for guidance and direction.

00:30:33.400 But, but unless they know that you have an established relationship and there's a level

00:30:37.720 of love and care there, that's agnostic of how they show up in the world, we're not in

00:30:43.540 a very strong position of influence.

00:30:45.840 So keep that in mind.

00:30:46.900 And one other thing, Will, that just to consider us having strong relationships with those that

00:30:51.880 have a relationship with them is super, super critical.

00:30:55.680 So the, the difficult one is like teenage friends.

00:30:58.720 Do you think I'm in a better position with my son?

00:31:00.940 If his friends think I'm a cool dad?

00:31:03.800 Certainly.

00:31:04.240 To your case, Will, do you think you have a higher chance of, of relationship with your

00:31:10.280 daughter?

00:31:11.320 If her dad thinks you're a good guy, that you're aligned with mom, those are people of

00:31:18.540 influence in her life, whether you like it or not, they have a strong influence.

00:31:23.740 You need to make sure those relationships are trued up as well.

00:31:27.420 Yeah.

00:31:27.560 And be careful with the cool dad thing.

00:31:29.140 Just to just as a side note, like that doesn't mean that you're like smoke pot with

00:31:34.100 them and let them drink at your house and, you know, do that or, or whatever.

00:31:37.680 What are you talking about, man?

00:31:39.700 Teenagers think that's what a cool dad is, right?

00:31:42.440 Because as you said that it's, it's, um, uh, have them, have them think that you're the

00:31:51.020 cool dad in a sense that you're kind that you, yeah, that, that they respect you, that

00:31:56.680 you acknowledge them, that you acknowledge them as their friends and, and, and as a part

00:32:03.680 of their life.

00:32:04.600 And, you know, that's, what's cool.

00:32:06.180 It doesn't mean you still can't be strict and have rules and things like that, because,

00:32:10.380 you know, I think I'm fairly strict in the things that I do, but simultaneously, I think

00:32:14.440 all of my kids' friends think that I'm a cool dad, right?

00:32:17.720 Because I acknowledge them.

00:32:18.880 I ask them about them and their lives and what's going on and how are they're doing?

00:32:26.840 Yeah.

00:32:27.320 And I'll never do those things, but when they come over, I asked them about them, right?

00:32:31.980 As if, if I had adults come over and I wanted to know about them and get to know them and

00:32:36.800 understand them.

00:32:37.600 And so, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up.

00:32:40.100 That's a, that's a huge point.

00:32:41.900 And here's the thing, you're girls are hard anyways, and you're probably never really going 1.00

00:32:50.540 to get the appreciation from them until they're much older.

00:32:53.900 And I can tell you, I watched this happen with my wife, where, when we got married, her stepdad

00:32:59.900 walked her down the aisle and it says nothing to her dad, not being her, her biological dad,

00:33:05.740 not being a good dad, not being around, not being whatever.

00:33:08.740 She just felt that in that moment, it was, it was more important to her to have her stepdad

00:33:16.840 walk her down the aisle when we got married, you know, and her, and her dad was unable to

00:33:21.580 make it and everything else.

00:33:22.480 And there was other things, but I'll tell you what, when she asked her stepdad, he literally

00:33:26.920 didn't know what to do with himself.

00:33:28.760 He was so overcome with emotion.

00:33:30.220 He was, it was unexpected, but it was just proof that she was just so grateful for everything

00:33:37.340 that he did.

00:33:37.980 And he wasn't, he's not the type of guy who really always showed her love and affection

00:33:42.300 and said, I love you all the time and things like that, but he didn't have to because she

00:33:47.040 knew it.

00:33:47.540 And that was proof.

00:33:48.900 And so not that he should have the expectation that that's going to happen with his stepdaughter,

00:33:54.000 right.

00:33:54.240 But that you just never know you're making an impact.

00:33:58.260 If you're doing it right, you're making an impact deeper than she's ever going to tell

00:34:03.240 you.

00:34:03.460 I think next question, Wade Marshall, uh, sorry, Wade, uh, is it dams or dames dames?

00:34:11.560 Probably.

00:34:12.800 I wasn't a great father.

00:34:15.300 I had a pretty awful father figure at home and had a lot of anger because of it.

00:34:20.260 I've gotten better for the, for my last couple of kids.

00:34:24.280 Thanks in part to this movement, what can I do to repair the relationship with my older

00:34:29.560 children?

00:34:32.100 I've, I've dealt with this, just realizing that how I was parented, I grew up with a

00:34:39.220 single mom.

00:34:40.020 My dad wasn't around.

00:34:40.900 My dad's great.

00:34:41.580 He's, he's never hit me once.

00:34:43.560 He's, he's yelled at me one cool dad, got you a beer and pot.

00:34:48.980 It's joking.

00:34:49.920 He didn't do any of that, but he was more, I was with him every other weekend.

00:34:53.760 And a lot of those weekends we miss cause he was working or something, you know, just

00:34:57.280 didn't work out.

00:34:58.440 But when we were together, we had fun.

00:35:00.760 And my mom used to resent that cause he, we'd go dirt bike in and camping and, you know,

00:35:04.880 do fun things and he would teach stuff.

00:35:06.720 And, and it was a, it was an overall good experience, but I can remember like the one

00:35:13.260 time he yelled at me and called me a dumb ass, I think.

00:35:15.900 And, and I was walking across the street with a, with the ice chest that I was carrying and

00:35:20.900 I was kind of walking and cars were coming instead of hurrying up, you know, and, and,

00:35:26.460 and, and it was something like, you know, hurry up, you dumb ass. 0.94

00:35:29.800 And, and that hurts so much because he never said, my mom said stuff like that to me all the

00:35:34.300 time, but he never did.

00:35:36.720 And I was like, whoa, right.

00:35:39.240 Yeah.

00:35:39.720 Um, but it was, I was with my mom in 98% of the time.

00:35:45.560 And so she was, I mean, honestly abusive with her words and guilt and all of these things.

00:35:52.800 And I got hit by her and my grant, I lived with my grandma for a while.

00:35:56.740 So same thing.

00:35:57.580 It was like, they, I would get hit and yelled at, and I thought that's how you parent.

00:36:03.160 And so I would catch myself doing that with my kids and it worse with my older two than

00:36:12.380 with my younger two, but I still have to catch myself in my anger.

00:36:19.000 And so the two things that have helped me, number one, saying, you're sorry.

00:36:23.980 And it sounds like number two, you're already ahead of the game is catching yourself.

00:36:30.600 Yeah.

00:36:31.040 And so all you can do is all you can do, man.

00:36:34.060 And so figure out, catch yourself in those moments, apologize again, and then let them

00:36:41.400 know that you're doing the work.

00:36:44.000 And so to your older kids, all you can say is, Hey, look, you know what?

00:36:49.340 I, we can't change the past and I'm really sorry, but I want you guys to know that I'm

00:36:55.280 a work in progress.

00:36:56.580 And the best thing I could do is your father.

00:36:58.620 And as an example to you in my pursuit of being a better father is be better moving forward.

00:37:05.140 And so I'm going to try and catch myself in my anger.

00:37:08.120 I'm going to try and catch myself in my words and it's not going to be perfect, but I do

00:37:13.560 want you to know that I'm working on it and I want to be better for you.

00:37:18.480 And I may not have been the best up until this point, but I owe it to you to be better.

00:37:25.340 And so just know that I'm working on it and, and they'll see that and they'll appreciate

00:37:30.720 it and they'll call you on stuff.

00:37:33.040 And when they do let's make those moments where you say, thank you, instead of getting

00:37:39.140 angry and catch yourself in those things.

00:37:41.580 And so it's, you know, it's a process, but I think you're ahead of the curve by already

00:37:47.340 catching yourself.

00:37:48.920 Totally.

00:37:49.800 And be careful, Wade.

00:37:50.980 Like it, I'm not saying that, that your awful father figure doesn't play a part in

00:37:57.080 defining you, but be careful not to have that come across like an excuse to them.

00:38:01.660 Just own you, agnostic of, of, of your parenting, right? 0.97

00:38:07.200 The minute you do it, well, my dad, you know what I mean?

00:38:09.220 Then, then you're just excusing the behavior.

00:38:11.280 That's how it's going to be perceived, even if you're not doing that.

00:38:14.100 So be careful not to do that.

00:38:17.220 Related to this, I, and just maybe, maybe a call to action.

00:38:20.780 Cause I, I don't think I have much to add to what you said, Sean, but Wayne and everybody

00:38:25.020 like, don't let things go unaddressed.

00:38:29.160 Yeah.

00:38:29.800 So you might be like, Hey, it's been a while.

00:38:34.020 It's a long time.

00:38:35.280 You know, it's not a big deal.

00:38:36.660 My kids know they love me, but something went unaddressed and you should own it.

00:38:42.900 Fix it.

00:38:44.620 So say it right.

00:38:46.480 Complete it.

00:38:47.180 Whatever phrase you want to put on it.

00:38:49.140 If something is unaddressed, it's not completed, whether it's our older kids or even Wade,

00:38:55.840 if it's even with your father, clean it up and complete it.

00:39:01.460 And, and when we complete things, I want to be really clear.

00:39:05.100 We don't go into them with, Hey, Sean, I just wanted to explain because my dad treated me

00:39:11.000 this way.

00:39:11.540 This is why I lashed out to you.

00:39:12.760 So I just want to let you know.

00:39:13.740 Sorry about that.

00:39:14.600 Whoa.

00:39:15.360 Talk about taking zero ownership and just passing the buck.

00:39:18.500 And not really connecting, right?

00:39:21.880 The way that would look is like, Hey, Sean, you know, it's been bothering me.

00:39:25.740 I want to clean this up with you.

00:39:27.560 I shouldn't have had acted this way, period.

00:39:31.160 I'm sorry.

00:39:32.240 You have my commitment moving forward, blah, blah, blah.

00:39:34.360 Right.

00:39:34.800 I need your help.

00:39:35.780 See me as a work in progress.

00:39:37.520 I love you committed to, you know, becoming a better man.

00:39:40.860 Move forward.

00:39:42.240 That's it.

00:39:42.780 No stories, no excuses, no nothing.

00:39:45.620 Just, just own what you can own.

00:39:49.240 Now, also, if you don't mind me suggesting Wayne, like, or Wade, like even if we're incomplete

00:39:55.940 and we're not the ones at fault, right?

00:39:57.840 It's the other person, right?

00:39:59.800 Sean's at fault.

00:40:01.080 And, and I need, and that's incomplete.

00:40:03.460 Then complete it with Sean.

00:40:04.840 And so really quick, what does that look like?

00:40:07.960 It's not a, Hey, Sean, when you showed up this way and you did these things, it made

00:40:12.720 me upset and made me hate you. 0.90

00:40:15.220 No.

00:40:15.960 Once again, you own you.

00:40:18.560 So if Sean was, and I, I don't know why I'm using you, Sean.

00:40:23.940 It's kind of weird as an example, but let me just try to work through this.

00:40:27.340 But if, if Sean was hurtful to me, I go to Sean owning my response.

00:40:36.580 I go, Hey, Sean, man, I want to apologize and restore my integrity with you.

00:40:41.680 When this happened in our past, I interpret it as you not caring.

00:40:49.040 And since then I've withdrawn, I've stonewalled you.

00:40:52.480 I've been harsh with you.

00:40:53.880 And I'm sorry for that.

00:40:55.420 And I want to ask for your forgiveness.

00:40:58.000 You own what you did wrong.

00:41:00.460 And what you did wrong is withholding your relationship from someone.

00:41:05.960 You let them own them.

00:41:07.620 So even in Wade's father's figure scenario, I would literally say the, almost the same

00:41:13.080 exact thing.

00:41:14.120 Hey, dad, we had a rough childhood.

00:41:16.700 I get it.

00:41:17.580 But you know what?

00:41:19.200 I interpret a lot of your actions as that you weren't caring and that you didn't love me.

00:41:24.560 And I now realize that's my perception.

00:41:27.640 And because of that, I withdrew from you as your son.

00:41:30.180 And I'm sorry.

00:41:31.280 And you own your part in the relationship.

00:41:33.740 And maybe they'll ask for their forgiveness from their, on their part.

00:41:37.740 Maybe they won't.

00:41:38.700 That's not the intent.

00:41:40.080 And that's how you get whole and complete with broken relationships, whether they're

00:41:45.540 with fathers or even with our kids.

00:41:47.480 So don't let them go unaddressed.

00:41:49.080 Ultimately is what I'm trying to say.

00:41:51.460 And that was really good.

00:41:54.740 The only thing I would caution in is maybe you do that with your dad and he calls you a

00:42:00.280 bitch, right? 1.00

00:42:01.280 Like maybe, maybe that's, maybe that's the reaction, right?

00:42:04.380 Well, that's on you and it could, but you did what you could.

00:42:09.960 And so you could feel, you could feel good.

00:42:12.600 You can feel whole in that.

00:42:14.800 And maybe it helps you move on from it.

00:42:18.000 Maybe it doesn't, but it's more important and, and how you project and how you show up

00:42:22.820 with, with your kids and how they see and feel and how you communicate with them in that

00:42:28.380 process.

00:42:28.800 Yeah.

00:42:30.060 Just be careful not to blame or excuse.

00:42:32.440 Right.

00:42:33.800 Alex Schwartz.

00:42:34.900 How do you balance and navigate being a new business owner and your family?

00:42:38.960 At the end of the day, family matters most, but my business is what allows my wife to 1.00

00:42:43.500 stay home and bills to be paid.

00:42:45.580 That is the number one question I get from the, the people that, that I coach and mentor is

00:42:58.160 how do you balance it all?

00:43:00.180 And so the majors always come down to communication and scheduling.

00:43:06.960 And, and first what's important and prioritizing hip, you talked about being lazy.

00:43:15.440 And as you said it, I had the thought of, well, I'm lazy.

00:43:18.620 I think we're all inherently lazy.

00:43:21.900 It's you mentioned Hinkley earlier.

00:43:23.680 That's in his book, standing for something.

00:43:25.920 There's a, there's a chapter on thrift and industry.

00:43:29.040 And he says something along the lines of, we'd all rather play a little loaf, a little, you

00:43:36.860 know, do little, but there's satisfaction that comes in industry and being industrious and

00:43:49.460 doing work.

00:43:51.120 And so we have to set aside the things that are fun to do sometimes or easy to do in pursuit

00:44:02.560 of the things that are better.

00:44:04.360 So it's kind of like the good, better, best.

00:44:06.580 So if you want the best version of your life, you have to get rid of some things that maybe

00:44:12.080 are good.

00:44:12.600 Maybe that's a, uh, you know, a, a Friday night softball league that you're a part of,

00:44:19.100 or maybe it's a bowling league, or maybe it's some football that you watch on the weekends.

00:44:25.420 I don't know what it is, but in pursuit of balancing those more important things, you

00:44:31.900 might have to drop some stuff that can sidetrack you or that doesn't help in those pursuits.

00:44:38.460 And so prioritizing, communicating that with your spouse of what those important things

00:44:45.520 are, and then the scheduling of all of it, because all of it can get done.

00:44:51.500 And especially if you're on the same page and in those same pursuits together and the

00:44:57.540 communication at minimum needs to be weekly.

00:45:01.880 Um, but I know for my wife and I, we have weekly meetings, every Sunday, we just did

00:45:06.220 it yesterday going over the schedule of what's going to be happening this week.

00:45:11.080 Who needs to be where at what times, what appointments do we have?

00:45:15.660 What did it kids have going on?

00:45:18.840 And then who can do what?

00:45:21.160 And that includes the whole family now with my daughter driving and everything else.

00:45:25.380 Um, and then we're all on the same page and then every day it's before we go to bed at

00:45:34.800 night, it's okay.

00:45:35.680 What's, what do we have tomorrow?

00:45:37.480 It's tomorrow.

00:45:37.980 Who's doing what and making sure everybody's clear in that.

00:45:41.980 And it doesn't mean things still won't come up, but I couldn't imagine it without that

00:45:46.160 communication of everything.

00:45:48.340 But that, that night before making sure that we don't get caught up in just being busy,

00:45:56.320 that all of our busy work and all of the work that we're putting in are on the important

00:46:01.880 things.

00:46:02.860 And then if there's extra time after most of those important things, then we do the other

00:46:08.480 stuff and not vice versa.

00:46:09.860 I think because people don't know what they want.

00:46:13.040 They don't schedule well.

00:46:14.260 They don't communicate.

00:46:15.160 They just end up doing a bunch of stuff that doesn't really serve their family.

00:46:19.900 And that's when it gets overwhelming and you feel like you're not getting stuff done.

00:46:24.620 It's because it's not being communicated and, and the important things aren't getting done

00:46:29.100 first.

00:46:30.900 So Mike Nebucher has a related question really around presence.

00:46:35.860 So I wanted to see if you'd add anything.

00:46:37.440 He says, how do you navigate being a father that is present in your kid's life while spending

00:46:41.340 the time necessary to grow a business volunteer, be there for the men on my back.

00:46:45.160 And all the things that we need to do to be good men.

00:46:47.780 So like what extra things, because I think what Mike's kind of bringing up to be frank

00:46:52.040 is we could do all the scheduling, right?

00:46:54.400 We could do the communication, but we're still lacking presence, right?

00:46:59.020 So what, what recommendations from that perspective?

00:47:01.440 I like this question because it says, you know, my volunteering that my, I, my battle team

00:47:08.460 in the IC, all of these things.

00:47:10.440 And I see too many men put, when I think of volunteering, I think of like my calling in

00:47:17.260 my church activities.

00:47:18.060 Right.

00:47:18.420 And so I see too many men put that before their family, too many men put maybe the men

00:47:24.800 in the IC before their kids, too many put their jobs even before that.

00:47:31.680 And this comes in line with the, you know, the first question of that pays the bills though.

00:47:37.100 So, okay, but you can do it all.

00:47:39.260 You can sit, maybe the time is you'd spend 20 minutes at night.

00:47:45.320 I, I made this initially where I told my wife, you know, I'm going to put the kids to bed

00:47:51.140 and I'm going to say prayers with them.

00:47:53.260 And then I started spending 10 to 15 minutes, just asking about their day, how things were

00:47:59.820 going, how things are going with their friends, what they did, what was good in that day, what

00:48:04.320 was difficult.

00:48:05.180 I just had more conversation with them.

00:48:07.140 And what I found is it would take me about an hour to get them all down to bed, but those

00:48:14.140 conversations were priceless, man.

00:48:15.840 Like looking back at it, it, it, it, it was such a simple thing that I just had to put

00:48:22.940 in there and make important. 0.97

00:48:24.520 And then through those conversations, I knew what was important to them coming up.

00:48:29.880 And so I mentioned the scheduling, I could put that in.

00:48:33.040 And then I started being able to combine them and being able to do things and, you know,

00:48:38.240 almost navigating to where people at church realize like, really, what are the most important?

00:48:43.300 And so my calling now, my church is with the young men, like I just last week at all last

00:48:47.840 week, I was, I, I helped run our young men's camp for 60 young men, you know, in, in our

00:48:54.960 church.

00:48:56.660 And that's my calling in the church, but I, two of my boys were in that camp.

00:49:01.840 And so I was spending that time with them and it was important.

00:49:05.900 And so all of it has kind of intermingled because people know the importance of what

00:49:14.440 I have.

00:49:14.860 We've had this conversation in the IC, right?

00:49:16.880 I'm, I'm contributing in, in the IC and doing those things, but had a conversation with Ryan

00:49:22.580 a while ago.

00:49:23.100 And that was not going to be the typical way that people, uh, engage in the IC and Ryan's

00:49:32.340 a hundred percent on board with that.

00:49:33.360 Right.

00:49:34.140 And so is everybody else.

00:49:35.280 And I'm in a, in a mentor capacity and doing what I can to, to ensure that, um, we're growing

00:49:42.340 this movement, but it doesn't supersede every other thing I have going on in my life, but

00:49:48.520 that's what also makes it work.

00:49:52.100 So I hope that answered it.

00:49:53.640 Well, I hope, you know, no, I think that's good.

00:49:56.740 But, you know, you mentioned something, Sean, I don't want to spend too much time on it.

00:50:01.000 We, we, I do want to cover one more question before we wrap up.

00:50:04.420 Um, but it's interesting.

00:50:05.760 You use the analogy of guys will put the iron council first, right?

00:50:10.100 They'll, they'll put their work for still put these other things first.

00:50:13.500 And I was reading some content, actually, uh, literally the last couple of days that, that

00:50:19.560 most men, if, if they were going to describe what love is to them, it often looks and feels

00:50:29.000 like respect.

00:50:30.140 And isn't it quite ironic that where do we easily spend more time are more likely in

00:50:39.720 the areas that we feel respected, where we feel loved, right?

00:50:45.120 In, in a man's kind of way.

00:50:46.620 And so, and it's fascinating how men, you know, it's like, oh, my husband's never home.

00:50:52.500 You know, he's working all the time or, um, spends more time in the office than coming

00:50:57.400 home or when he comes home, he's like checked out, but he lightens up at work.

00:51:01.320 Why?

00:51:02.340 Because it's the easier area to feel appreciated.

00:51:07.260 It's the easy area to feel respected.

00:51:10.040 And so we gravitate to those areas that we feel quote unquote loved.

00:51:15.760 Now, I don't say that from the perspective of like, woe is us.

00:51:20.300 So keep everyone, you know, be a victim of that and just stay in the office where you feel

00:51:24.980 appreciated and avoid going home.

00:51:26.780 Well, I'm not saying that, but be aware of that, right?

00:51:31.140 Where is that coming from?

00:51:32.640 Why is it easy for me to stay at the office and not go home?

00:51:36.460 And okay.

00:51:37.780 It's because I don't feel it appreciated maybe, right?

00:51:40.480 Or I don't feel respected at home.

00:51:41.820 Okay.

00:51:42.200 Well, why don't you then?

00:51:44.540 And now what are you doing to ensure that you are feeling that way at home, that you

00:51:50.280 are feeling respected and, and double down to resolve that, not necessarily step away

00:51:55.940 from it and, and get that where it's easier is, is what I'm kind of suggesting.

00:52:02.600 So don't, don't be passive and take the easy road of like, well, you know, I'll just double

00:52:07.880 down in these areas where I might feel more appreciated.

00:52:11.300 The, the, you need to address the issue.

00:52:13.240 Right.

00:52:13.680 And if that's missing at home, if that's a tendency, uh, then we need to get after that.

00:52:19.500 The, the other thing that I wanted to say that you mentioned, Sean is sometimes it's

00:52:23.720 creative to the presence thing.

00:52:25.400 And I know it's super silly.

00:52:26.840 This is a super silly example.

00:52:28.560 I don't watch sports for the most part.

00:52:31.440 I don't, I, we have a TV downstairs.

00:52:33.680 I never watch a full game of anything, um, but I love sports kind of a dilemma for me.

00:52:40.120 So what do I do?

00:52:41.140 I watch highlights.

00:52:41.980 That's how I watch my sports.

00:52:43.700 So I pull up YouTube and I watch the 10 minute highlight of a football game or a basketball

00:52:48.720 game.

00:52:49.100 And now all of a sudden, like I watched the game and I'll even like super silly, not

00:52:53.580 even look at the score.

00:52:54.620 So then I'll watch the highlight going, Ooh, I wonder who's going to win in like 10 minutes.

00:52:58.540 Right.

00:52:59.340 Super late with UFC.

00:53:00.740 Yeah.

00:53:02.140 So it, it's, it is what it is.

00:53:04.160 Right.

00:53:04.480 So, but that's how I get my quote unquote sports in.

00:53:07.380 Well, that doesn't serve my kids either.

00:53:10.480 Does it?

00:53:11.500 So what do I do with, with the four-year-old?

00:53:15.000 We watch top 10 plays before we go to bed.

00:53:18.000 That's how I get my top 10 plays in.

00:53:20.600 And he thinks it's fascinating.

00:53:22.400 I don't even know if he really watches half of them, but he'll remind me like, Oh, top 10

00:53:26.680 plays, top 10 plays, dad.

00:53:27.760 And we'll like sit down and we'll watch top 10 plays before we go to bed.

00:53:32.840 Sometimes our presence with our kids is us involving them and getting kind of creative

00:53:38.620 is, is ultimately what I'm trying to say.

00:53:41.060 And it sucks.

00:53:42.380 Right.

00:53:43.000 And, and I'll be, it sounds, it sucks, but it's worth it.

00:53:46.840 You know, I, I needed to build a doc yesterday and I could have gotten the doc done, done in

00:53:54.100 probably half the time than it took, but I wanted my daughter to help build a doc. 0.99

00:54:02.260 So we built the doc.

00:54:03.800 You know what I mean?

00:54:04.940 Literally.

00:54:05.460 I like, I drilled all the holes and then she ran the screws and it took forever.

00:54:10.500 It was, I know I had to like, Oh, this is going to take for like, this is not that hard.

00:54:17.120 This is not efficient.

00:54:18.240 Yeah.

00:54:18.480 This is not the efficient way to, but she, she enjoyed it.

00:54:22.660 Right.

00:54:23.100 And guess what?

00:54:23.740 Did I regret it?

00:54:25.300 No, I didn't regret it.

00:54:27.120 Of course I didn't regret it.

00:54:28.960 And then she felt highly satisfied and accomplished.

00:54:31.600 And she did something hard and she used some power tools that she was nervous about using,

00:54:36.180 you know, she's only 12, you know what I mean?

00:54:39.200 And she's super teeny. 1.00

00:54:40.300 So like, I don't know, any power tools she's like nervous about.

00:54:44.000 Yeah.

00:54:44.280 So look for ways to integrate our kids.

00:54:46.880 Another example, probably the time where my wife and I are connecting the most is when

00:54:52.840 we go running because then we talk the whole time and then we're like caught up on our day.

00:55:00.080 You know, look for areas to get creative.

00:55:03.200 Yeah.

00:55:03.300 We would do it driving if my kids, but I mentioned my daughter before she would open up the least 0.95

00:55:09.460 at night when they'd go say prayers with her.

00:55:13.220 And so instead of that, I transitioned it into, okay, if you're not going to open up

00:55:17.580 with me at night, when we say our prayers, I'm going to drive you to everything.

00:55:22.100 And then guess what's going to happen during the drive.

00:55:24.400 I didn't tell her that, but everywhere we drove, then it was like, Hey, what's going on?

00:55:29.240 What's I turned the radio off.

00:55:31.040 And instead of the radio being on and letting her be on her phone or whatever it was,

00:55:35.740 we were engaged in conversation and that's where it came out.

00:55:39.080 It just became, she didn't think something was up or I was tricking her or anything like

00:55:43.480 that.

00:55:43.800 It was just, yeah, it was just every time we drove anywhere that became where we connected

00:55:48.240 and had those conversations.

00:55:49.780 So it's always there.

00:55:51.720 It's in front of us.

00:55:53.020 Just got to be present to it.

00:55:55.020 Yep.

00:55:55.340 All right.

00:55:55.660 Greg Lewis, last question here.

00:55:57.860 I've said things to my son and daughter that I hated hearing when I was a kid.

00:56:01.900 I had a mentally abusive father and lots of his harmful words and his disappointment voice

00:56:08.380 stuck in my head.

00:56:09.760 It just won't go away.

00:56:10.920 No matter what I work to do.

00:56:13.720 I've tried over the years to not let that voice of my abusive father shine through in

00:56:18.920 me, but it often slips out.

00:56:21.100 I even feel horrible as soon as his words leave my mouth.

00:56:24.380 It's not the norm, but I still, those words and that tone hurt them badly.

00:56:29.880 I can see it on their faces.

00:56:31.600 I apologize profusely, profusely, but the hurt sticks with them just like it did with

00:56:40.060 me.

00:56:40.660 What advice would you offer to help me and guys like me in similar circumstances?

00:56:46.080 I think we addressed this a little bit earlier on when we were talking about the guy with

00:56:52.280 his abusive dad.

00:56:54.060 And as I mentioned with my mom, I catch myself with that where, where my family, and I won't

00:57:02.380 say my mom, cause my entire family is this way, was abusive on my mom's side is that they're

00:57:09.020 all sarcastic and they're all smart asses. 0.76

00:57:11.400 And so everybody just, it was an endearing dragging on each other constantly.

00:57:19.480 Like you go to Thanksgiving and it's like, no one says, Hey, how you been?

00:57:23.480 It's like, Hey, what's up?

00:57:24.520 Dumbass.

00:57:25.520 It's like, that's the, that's the way they address each other.

00:57:28.600 And that was normal and constant sarcasm, constant.

00:57:34.640 You're not good enough.

00:57:36.040 Constant.

00:57:36.580 You're an idiot.

00:57:37.840 Constant.

00:57:38.580 You're.

00:57:38.900 I only laugh because I can relate, but yeah, it's just, it, and that's the way I grew up.

00:57:45.200 And so I have to constantly stop myself from doing it to my kids and I do it still constantly.

00:57:52.340 And, but here's the thing.

00:57:54.340 Now you mentioned earlier, not using that as the excuse, but I think there is some importance

00:57:59.960 to letting them know, letting them know, like, Hey, you know what?

00:58:05.660 I'm, I'm sorry.

00:58:06.460 I said it that way.

00:58:07.320 I was sarcastic.

00:58:08.280 And I, I probably made you feel kind of dumb by saying it that way.

00:58:13.760 I just, it's, it's the only way that anyone in my family communicated to me as a kid.

00:58:21.940 And so it's my automatic reflex to say things like that.

00:58:27.280 And I'd want you to know, I didn't mean it that way and it was wrong and I'm sorry.

00:58:33.740 And I'm really working on not doing it anymore.

00:58:37.700 And, but I, if you see me doing it, I give you a full permission to call me on it and

00:58:46.400 say, Hey, you're not supposed to talk that way.

00:58:49.760 You're not supposed to say things that way.

00:58:51.720 And I'll do my best to not get angry because I'm trying to get better.

00:58:56.400 I really am working on it and it's difficult for me.

00:59:00.540 And, um, and I don't want you to have the same experience as you start having kids, you

00:59:06.080 know, where you just start to parent that way, because that's what you had.

00:59:10.440 So yeah, don't use it as an excuse, but sometimes having the conversation so they at least understand

00:59:15.760 that you're not doing it to be harmful, that sometimes it's just all, you know.

00:59:21.700 Um, but again, I think the most important part is them knowing and understanding that

00:59:26.060 you're a work in progress.

00:59:27.280 I think too many of us, and especially men aren't willing to tell our kids and our spouses

00:59:38.320 and the people that are important to us in our lives that we're wrong or that we're at

00:59:42.420 fault or that we have faults.

00:59:44.800 Yeah.

00:59:45.360 That we're working on something.

00:59:47.020 Yeah.

00:59:47.320 Yeah.

00:59:47.820 It's like, we almost want to do it secretly for some reason.

00:59:51.080 And so I think just that disclosure is important and that you do it together and, and simultaneously,

01:00:02.860 you know, it's, you can't expect them to be perfect either.

01:00:07.740 And I think you'll get a lot of good.

01:00:09.500 I do it with my kids where we have good back and forth and they call me on things.

01:00:13.600 And when they call me on it, most of the time, honestly, now we laugh together.

01:00:19.260 Like, you're right.

01:00:21.240 You got me, dude, you know, good call.

01:00:23.960 And I'm sorry.

01:00:25.360 And, uh, and then now we're getting to the point where we can laugh about it more, but

01:00:30.280 it's been years where before they were hurt more by it.

01:00:34.040 And now we can laugh about it a little bit more.

01:00:37.160 And then now we catch each other in those things as a family.

01:00:41.320 And the pursuit is eventually get to where none of us say those hurtful things to each

01:00:45.760 other.

01:00:45.920 I don't know if we'll ever get there, but at least it doesn't feel as bad as it used

01:00:50.120 to.

01:00:50.720 So it's, you know, you know, when I, um, when I think about like biblical stories or you

01:00:57.580 hear like old times, so like people had demons in them, you know what I mean?

01:01:01.300 Yeah.

01:01:01.620 I, I, I think this is the modern version of that.

01:01:06.780 I really do like where Greg and I, and Greg, I can relate where, where you, you have like

01:01:14.860 this, your dad is a demon in you. 0.76

01:01:18.780 Do you know what I mean?

01:01:19.840 And it shows up and you're like, holy crap.

01:01:22.740 That's the same tone.

01:01:24.160 You remember the way it felt.

01:01:25.820 You sound just like him and it's like disgraceful in your mind.

01:01:30.080 Right.

01:01:30.400 Like I get it, man.

01:01:31.560 I totally get it.

01:01:33.960 Oh, we lost Kip on my end.

01:01:36.400 It shows that we're still recording.

01:01:38.640 Yeah.

01:01:39.120 I think we answered this and I wish Kip could finish his thoughts on it.

01:01:44.000 So today was a good conversation, good questions, and obviously focused on fatherhood and I hope

01:01:52.480 they were helpful to you guys at the very least, Kip mentioned it earlier.

01:01:56.340 If, if not, I know it's helpful to me every single week that I get better through these

01:02:02.400 conversations, through these questions and through our thought and the answers to those.

01:02:06.440 And I know the IC was mentioned and right now it's open to get signed up in the IC and I

01:02:15.540 would highly recommend that you do so.

01:02:17.780 If you want to have more of these conversations, more of this interaction with high caliber men

01:02:23.640 that are trying to improve themselves, that are trying to be better, sign up and just go

01:02:30.600 on order a man.com, click on the iron council and get signed up.

01:02:36.440 And in the meantime, go out and become the man that you were meant to be.

01:02:40.620 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:02:43.480 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:02:47.120 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 21, 2023

Projecting Expectations on Others, Strengthening the Father-Daughter Relationship, and Overcoming Influence from an Abusive Father ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript