Purpose, Passion, and Profit ｜ EVAN HAFER
Episode Stats
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Summary
Evan Hafer is the founder of Black Rifle Coffee Company, a coffee company that was started as a passion project but quickly grew into a multi-million dollar business. In this episode, we talk about the power of utilizing new media for marketing, finding and speaking to your tribe, sacrificing ego on the altar of business, and how to align purpose, passion and profit.
Transcript
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So many people believe that the term purpose and profit are mutually exclusive, that for one to
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exist, the other can't, and that just isn't the case. In fact, when you learn to align your purpose
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and passion with the ability to make a profit, you have a greater ability to impact the world
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in a positive way. Today, I'm joined by the founder of Black Rifle Coffee Company, Evan
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Hafer, to talk about how he's managed to build such a successful business around what was simply
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a passion project. We talk about the power of utilizing new media for marketing, finding
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and speaking to your tribe, sacrificing ego on the altar of business, and how to align
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purpose, passion, and profit. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace
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your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one
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more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is
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your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and
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after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the
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founder of this podcast, The Order of Man. The way that I start this thing out every week
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is to tell you what we're all about, and this is really, really important because we have
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so many new members, so many new listeners of the podcast over the past several weeks, and
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I'm not really sure what's going on other than it seems to me that the mission and the
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message of our organization, which is to protect, provide, preside, and helping lift men up and
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reclaiming and restoring what it means to be a man is widening. I think the message and
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the word is getting out there, so I'm glad you're here. If you're tuning in for the first
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time, if you've been with us for any amount of time, I want to welcome you back, and also
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at the same time, thank you for sharing, for sharing with your friends and your colleagues
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and your coworkers, family members, fathers, brothers, cousins, whoever it may be, any
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man that needs to understand a little bit more about what it means to be a man and how
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we are to step up in the walls of our home, our businesses, and community. So guys, I've
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got a fascinating discussion with you today, as we always do. I hope you're liking the new
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format over the past, I'd say, two to three months now. We've changed up the format a little
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bit. It's not so much of an interview as it is a conversation, so I'd love to hear your
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feedback. The goods, the bad, the ugly, whatever you like. If you don't like, if you have feedback,
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suggestions, podcast, guest, recommendations, whatever it may be, I want to hear from you.
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I'm very active over on Instagram, at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M-I-C-H-L-E-R,
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and that's probably the best place to get a hold of me. Again, that's over on Instagram.
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We're going to get into the conversation here in a minute. I do want to make a mention of my
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friends. I've done this for about two months now. It's the guys over at Origin, and if you're
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not listening to their podcast, by the way, it's called the Hands in Daylight podcast. You
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obviously like podcasts because you're listening to this one. Pete Roberts and Brian Littlefield
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have an incredible podcast called Hands in Daylight, so make sure you check that out.
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And then also, if you're doing any sort of jiu-jitsu, which I know a lot of you are because
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I'm getting messages from you about my jiu-jitsu experience over the past three or four months
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now, if you are doing jiu-jitsu, if you need a gi, rash guards, any of their supplemental
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lineup, which is partnered up with Jocko, that's their MULC, which is a protein, super
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krill, joint warfare, all of it. They've got all of it. Just head over to originmain.com,
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originmain.com, and make sure you use the code ORDER, O-R-D-E-R, at checkout. I've talked
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with them. We've got a 10% discount on anything that you purchase, again, over at Origin, Maine.
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Gies, rash guards, training gear, supplemental lineup, lifestyle apparel, you name it. They've
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got it. They're doing wonderful things. They're not just a sponsor of the show. These guys
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are personal friends of mine, and they're doing wonderful, wonderful things in the state
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of Maine, and everything is 100% made in America. Again, originmain.com, and use the code ORDER,
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at checkout. All right, guys, with that said, let's get into my conversation today. Let me
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introduce you to my guest. First of all, his name is Evan Hafer. A lot of you guys may not
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necessarily recognize the name, but I bet, I'd be willing to bet that most of you listening
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are familiar with his company, Black Rifle Coffee Company. He is a former member of the
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Special Forces, and between multiple combat deployments, he spent time honing his firearm
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and roasting skills, of all things. And when Evan left the service in 2015, he learned how
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to market himself and a business, and then he turned his second passion for roasting coffee
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into not only a full-time business, but a global coffee company that is recognized for
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their viral irreverent videos and marketing campaigns, and of course, their coffee.
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Now, I will be the first to tell you that I do not drink coffee myself, but when I had the chance
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to connect with Evan, I couldn't pass him up as he's clearly onto something when it comes to
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building a movement and working to employ our nation's veterans. So sit back, relax,
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enjoy the conversation, you guys, with Black Rifle Coffee Company founder, Evan Hafer.
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Evan, what's up, man? Thanks for joining me on the show today.
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Dude, thanks for having me. It's my honor and privilege to be on the show.
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I got to say, and I'll start with this disclaimer, you are one of my favorite companies that I have
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never used their primary product, believe it or not. I just don't drink coffee.
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I've heard that before. It's in our mission statement, which is we serve coffee and culture
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to people that love America. And so people can consume either our coffee or our content,
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but we get a lot of people that are like, man, I love your content, but I don't drink coffee.
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Could you guys do like a tea or something? And I'm like, I'm not a tea guy. I don't know tea.
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So that's good. I mean, you stick to your lane, right?
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Yeah. Yeah. I try to stick with coffee because that's my passion and that's what we do. And
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you know, that's, that's kind of where the core competency of the company rests. So
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I like that you talk about culture because that's one of the things that resonates with
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me just about anything else. I mean, obviously humor is a big part of what you're doing and
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a little bit of irreverence, if that's the right word, but man, you guys just do a great,
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great job with your marketing and then bringing veterans into the organization,
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then having a cause to rally around, quite frankly.
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It's interesting when we, well, I guess when I started, I don't, I guess not we, I really
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didn't have this, you know, great idea of building this company with hundreds of people. I was just
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roasting coffee in my garage and it was something that me and my buddies were doing. We were entertaining
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each other with videos. We've always done that. You know, since I met Matt and JT and all these guys
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from Heart 15 clothing, we've been doing video for so long. And mainly it's just for other guys like
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us where we just wanted to make them laugh. We thought, well, why don't we just infuse our creativity
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with something that we also enjoy? I'm just super happy when guys tell me like, man, we love your
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videos. They're awesome. They make me laugh. I'm like, perfect. That's what we're trying to do. We're
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Well, and I think that's so cool too, because in society, think in general, like everybody's so afraid
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of, you know, offending people and hurting people's feelings. And we've lost just the sense of,
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let's just have some fun. You know, we can poke fun at each other without it being personal or even us
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really meaning it all that much. I think that's part of the benefit of comedy and just lightening
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up a little bit. I couldn't agree more. It's one of those things where people take themselves so
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seriously. Companies, they just whitewash their narratives and distill it down to just the most
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benign characters that you could ever imagine. It's just absolute trash. So for me,
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I think marketing, it should be fun. It should be authentic. It should be something that you're
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very, I guess, for a product to be interactive with their marketing, it says more about the
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company. And I want people to know about the company. I want them to know we care about not
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only how we market the company, but we care about the product. So if you think that our marketing's
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great, you should try the product. That's really what we're, what we're trying to do is the value
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proposition in people's lives is to create positivity. It's to make them laugh, kind of to
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troll people in a way to, to make them laugh, but in a way shed light on how sensitive people are.
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This totally PC culture that we're living in, you never see authentic. And so when you see it,
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you're like, man, this is cool. It's authentic. It's real for us. We are real. You know, I'm not
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sitting in some weird ivory tower in some office driving a limousine. I'm just a guy that's trying
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to build a company and you want to see that. And we want to push that across to the customer that
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we're just real people trying to make people laugh and roast a high quality product.
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I imagine too is, and I don't know, because obviously I'm not studying the demographics of
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what you're doing, but I got to assume this is a pretty crowded market space. And so to your point
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about whitewashing everything down, if you look the same, talk the same, act the same as
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everybody else, I can't imagine you'd have the level of success that you have in a relatively
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short period of time. I had a theory on this a long time ago, which was I wanted to slap people
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in the face and wake them up with marketing because I could not see or find great marketing anywhere.
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I felt like if you could wake people up, you know, shake them up a little bit and go, wow,
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this is totally different. I'm not, I've never seen something like this before. These guys are crazy.
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You know, we would have a better chance in this crowded marketplace because it is a very
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competitive industry. Coffee is one of those things where it's very crowded. You know, there's
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a lot of people roasting a lot of coffee. So for us to be able to reach out, connect with our
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customers, that was super important. But if you just distill it down to, hey, I'm Black Rifle Coffee
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and I saw coffee, nobody's going to listen. Nobody's going to care.
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Even the veteran thing, and I'm not trying to dismiss this or downplay this at all,
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because I respect what you're doing. I respect what your team has done and those who've served
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this nation. But frankly, even the veteran thing is played on a little bit, if you will,
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and like overused. So if that's the depth of your marketing, I think that could fall short too.
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We've actually dialed that back because we want people to engage with our content. We want people
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to engage with the company, not because we've served the country. That's something we're very
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proud of. Trust me, I served the country for 20 years and a wide variety of professions. I want
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people to buy my product because they like the product. I want people to consume my content because
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they like the content. I think it devalues a company if the only thing that you're leaning your
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ladder against is the fact that you are a veteran. That is something that you should be proud of.
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It is something that you should absolutely tell people because it's part of your company.
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It's part of being transparent and authentic. It's part of your company. But if that's the only
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thing you're going to market with, boy, you're going to have some trouble. And for us, in videos and
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things like that, we've hardly ever said we're veterans in some of our marketing messages and some
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of the more ad-driven stuff that's more outsourced. That stuff says veteran-owned and operated.
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But our videos are just about entertaining people and informing them. But we're not leading with the
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fact like, hey, Evan was a Green Beret. No, I'm just a coffee roaster that likes to do funny
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Well, and one of the things I've heard you talk about too is that you don't define yourself by
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being a Green Beret or serving in the military. And when you do, I think you end up pigeonholing
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yourself because you're not going to be in the military forever. And what I see and have experienced
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is that when you leave the military, if you hung your hat on, I'm a warrior, and now you're no longer
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that warrior in that context, it's going to be a difficult transition for you.
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You know, and I think you're right. I think that a lot of guys, when they transition out,
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they've got their entire identity tied into their military occupational skill.
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That's not a bad thing because that's your tribe. That's your tribe. That's where you're coming from.
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And every person within the tribe has their tribal identity. However, for me, it was really important
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when I transitioned out to take everything that I learned and I loved about the military,
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but turn the page on it. I've always wanted to go out and roast coffee. I mean, since literally 1997.
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And for me, being a Green Beret and working for the CIA, that was part of my life. It made me who I was,
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but I was turning the page. I was starting a new chapter in my life. It wasn't going to define me
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because if working for the CIA was going to define me for the rest of my life, dude, I would be in
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trouble. And if my green hat was going to define me for the rest of my life, I would be in big trouble
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as well. What do you mean? What kind of things would that have caused if you would have continued
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to go down that path or hung your hat on being those professions? My dad told me something that
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resonated with me several years ago. And he said, driving down the road, your front windshield is
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huge. Your rear view mirror is tiny. You're moving into the future and you have to concentrate
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completely on the future and only look at the past to give you better essay and where you're going.
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That's interesting. So you're saying that you would have limited your perspective had you been
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so focused on the past? Correct. Yeah, you do. And I think that's very indicative to a lot of guys
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where they transitioned out and they have a really hard time transitioning away from the identity that
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they had. You honestly have to give birth to a new you. It's fucking crazy to say that, but you really
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have to give birth to a new you and say, I was who I was. You know, I was a corporal in the Marine Corps
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or a sergeant major or whatever it is. Today is a new day. And now if I'm going to go into business,
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I have to reinvent myself as a businessman, which means the rules and the game has changed.
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I can take all my experience. I can take all the things that I've learned. And those are tools for
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me to solve complex problems. But I have to start over. And if you look at it from my perspective,
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starting over, it becomes easier because you literally know nothing. There is not an expectation
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that I'm going to be an amazing businessman because I was a Green Beret. That is not an
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assumption. It was never an assumption in my mind. It was being a special forces guy taught me a lot.
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Deploying for 10 years in the agency taught me even more because it galvanized my training that I had
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within, you know, the special forces community, galvanized that. And then through repetition,
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I learned a lot of really complex problem solving and split decision making that I've been able to
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take into my second life as a businessman that's helped me succeed. But at the end of the day,
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if I'm focused on the fact that I used to be a Green Beret or I used to work for the agency,
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I'm not focused on being a great businessman, which would require me what I say is you have to
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sacrifice your ego on the altar of business. And it is a sacrificial lamb that you have to put a knife
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in and spill the blood over the floor. And if you don't, you're going to run into obstacles,
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massive obstacles, because your ego will literally put up so many walls, you won't be able to succeed.
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Those false expectations that I've had in the past of being successful in certain areas,
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and then assuming that it's going to equate to me being successful in other areas has produced nothing but
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frustration and discontent for the lack of growth that I had expected to experience.
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That's the expectation that people set themselves up and say, I was an amazing soldier. I was amazing
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this, that. That doesn't necessarily translate. This is a different language. It's a different
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context. It's a different environment. I transitioned away from the military. And a lot of the things that
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I transitioned away from the military with were great. I mean, they're incredible skills.
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Lots of repetition. And the culture and the climate that I came out of, it made it somewhat of a
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difficult transition for me as well, because you communicate completely differently than civilians.
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I might use the F word 20 times in one fucking sentence. People will go, I don't know what you're
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talking about. One. And two, they'll perceive what I'm talking about as aggression, where that's not,
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I'm not, I'm not. Right. You're not angry or anything. No, no, no, no, no. But I cannot tell
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you how many times that people have talked to me about, man, are you, are you upset or something?
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I'm like, no, dude, let's get some shit done. Let's fucking go. I'm motivated. I want to work.
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How do you find the line though, between, let's just take that example of, you know, being who you are
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and having your experience and language in the military is certainly different than like you had
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mentioned civilian life. So how do you find the balance between being who you are, but then also,
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I don't know if catering is the right word, but just being aware of other people who are receiving
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your message. You have to be aware. I mean, it's something that I struggled with. I think
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definitely my first year and a half, people don't necessarily understand the context of humor.
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They don't understand that like vernacular is a big one. They just can't, they, they, they've never
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been there. It's a subculture and it's a team room, right? When I've recruited people that come
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to work for the company, I recruited a lot of military people. That's really good because you
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can condense your communication and increase your success. Because everybody has what,
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like a basic foundational communication baseline, if you will. Yeah, exactly. And then with the people
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that haven't served in the military, it's a very specific personality that allows you to
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communicate effectively because they have to have really, really thick skin, right? I practice
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something called radical transparency within the company. So, you know, if people are walking down
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the hall and they're like, I don't fucking like that shirt, that's acceptable in my company. Because
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what I want from everybody in the company is to wear the truth literally on the front of their,
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their t-shirt where they have to communicate effectively and cut to the bone as fast as they can.
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And the people that are easily offended, this is not a good cultural fit for them.
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That's the thing that we all have to kind of decide, which is, this is an ecosystem. The company
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is an ecosystem and it's defined by me and the other owners. The people that you hire are invited
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into your ecosystem. They're invited onto your island. And at the end of the day, if they don't fit,
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that doesn't mean they're not going to fit in with somebody else's island and somebody else's
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ecosystem. It just means they're not a good fit for your company.
00:19:00.780
Right. And it doesn't even mean that they're wrong or a bad person or anything like that. Absolutely.
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It doesn't. It just means that they're not a good fit. And I think a lot of people take that way too
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personally. They take it as if, oh, I was going to get married or, you know, like you were the love
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of my life kind of a scenario. It's like, well, man, this is a company and it's a job. And more
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importantly, the way that you define a company and its ecosystem will define how successful it is,
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not from your strategic or financial goals. It's how happy are people when they walk through the
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doors and put in eight to 12 hours. So if you build the ecosystem, not for the one person,
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it's built for the majority to succeed and be happy. And you offload the people that don't fit as fast as
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you can. You have to be maniacal about it. You have to be really upfront and say, listen, it's just
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not a good fit, man. Like that's not, it's nothing personal. This is our Island and we're super
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protective of who's out here. And you know, you can go find another one. How much do you feel like
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you are currently dictating the course or direction of that ecosystem versus it just kind of evolving
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and growing and maybe even morphing to a degree and handling a lot of that on its own?
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I think as a CEO, that's one of your primary responsibilities. You know, as the tribal
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chief, so to speak, you are defining it. And when I say that, it's really commander's intent. And then
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it's up to the rest of the people within the company to go out and execute what you feel the
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direction of the company. And I should say, you feel the company needs to move in a certain way.
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So yeah, as the CEO of the company, that is my responsibility. I have to define it. And then I have
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to check in with the other C levels of the company and then other people within the company to make
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sure that the environment is maintaining the same kind of stable environment that I've set out. And if
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you're the CEO that doesn't want to do that, you're going to run the risk of a very chaotic
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environment and, or you have to find somebody to compensate and offset your ability or lack of
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ability to actually define what the culture is. I don't want to say it's easier. I don't like using
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that term, but I imagine it is maybe a little bit more simplified or again, I don't know the word
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now because you've attracted the right people and you've been doing this long enough where those
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people are actually out probably searching you out. And by the same measure, you're probably
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repelling the wrong type of person as well. Yeah, it's been a struggle, man. We're living
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in a crazy time. Political correctness is a cancer that I think is quite literally rotting the core of
00:21:50.820
our society from within. There is an expectation of people that everyone can kind of set the tone
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for a company. You're talking about the employees can, is that what you're referring to?
00:22:01.480
Yeah, exactly. Everybody has a say. Well, that's not true. The majority has the say. That's how
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democracies work actually. When you're living in a company, the CEO or the founder, whomever,
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they decide what the culture in the company is going to look like and then the rest of the company
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has to conform to that. Well, it's very difficult to break that through to people, especially in today's
00:22:26.880
society because they're offended over the shirt that you wear or the color of your socks. And
00:22:34.060
then somebody's talking about being triggered or something crazy. And you're like, dude,
00:22:39.080
maybe this isn't the greatest place for you to work.
00:22:41.800
Right, right. It's not going to be good for the business. And it's certainly not going to be
00:22:45.620
comfortable for you if you continue to work here.
00:22:47.860
No. And it's like, man, there's so many places to work in the United States
00:22:52.480
because this is the land of opportunity for the life of me. I can't figure out why people will
00:22:57.720
take jobs or they're like, they're unhappy. It doesn't make sense to me.
00:23:01.160
Yeah. I guess it's just chasing a paycheck or, or that's the best they think they can do. Maybe I
00:23:06.260
really don't know either. That's a, that's a good point.
00:23:08.640
I don't know. I mean, it's kind of like, and I know people do it all the time because they do need
00:23:12.940
to pay their rent and a few other things. But for me, companies are more than just about
00:23:18.080
profit. They have to be profitable. Don't get me wrong. Like companies have to be profitable,
00:23:22.740
but it's being able to walk out of your doors in the morning from the home that you love and the
00:23:29.900
family that you love and walk into the company that you love. Because now you have 24 hours a day,
00:23:35.760
seven days a week where you're encapsulated with happiness and or the environments that truly
00:23:42.520
fulfill you. If you do that, you win in life. Like you're the winner, dude. Winner, winner,
00:23:48.840
chicken dinner. You got it. For me, that's where defining the culture, recruiting the right people.
00:23:55.980
There's a great book. I think it was good to great or built to last. It might've been built to last
00:24:00.620
where get the wrong people off the bus and the right people on the bus, because it's a way better
00:24:06.520
trip. If you have that, but you have to be the master of your own 10 acres. When it comes to that,
00:24:12.880
you can't let the weeds grow up or they'll grow up and around and completely encapsulate you.
00:24:19.960
What was the expectation? I mean, when you were brewing coffee in your apartment and
00:24:23.600
just doing something you loved, you talked about these false expectations.
00:24:28.160
Did you have expectations or was it, Hey, I just like doing this and I'm going to do this a little bit
00:24:32.000
more. And then next week is a little more. And then next week, somebody wanted to buy something.
00:24:35.280
So I sold something. What did that actually look like for you?
00:24:38.220
Well, for me, I think my expectation was my wife had a coffee shop in Denver. I was working for
00:24:45.980
agency teaching advanced tactics like pistol carbine and a few other things. I wanted to
00:24:51.840
transition away. I was completely burnout, like not like beyond burnout to the point where I needed to
00:24:58.440
do something completely different. My expectation in coffee was I just wanted to roast coffee.
00:25:04.000
And give people something that I truly enjoyed. I didn't think of it as this is going to be the
00:25:10.900
company that I will run forever. This isn't the company that I would run to create hundreds of
00:25:17.180
jobs and millions of dollars. I thought of it as this is my part time job that I truly love.
00:25:22.940
My wife is into coffee. I'm into coffee. We can share something together. And then I can teach
00:25:28.900
myself how to become a businessman or proficient at business so I can feed my family outside of
00:25:35.360
carrying a rifle for a living. My expectation with this company from the beginning was to supplement
00:25:41.140
my income. I never saw it as something that would be my primary source of income. I'm just fortunate
00:25:47.540
enough to have grown the company to the point where it is my primary source of income. But as the company
00:25:54.560
increases in size, we're a long way away from me roasting coffee in my garage at this point.
00:26:00.720
Now, I have to become more proficient at leadership and management and task organization.
00:26:06.880
You know, these are the things that I've in some ways moved past. And now we're dealing with
00:26:12.900
the complexities of finance and a lot of other things out there that I didn't imagine four years
00:26:21.580
ago, four and a half years ago when I was roasting coffee one pound at a time on the back tailgate of
00:26:26.380
my truck at the range. Is that right? Is that where you started selling bags of coffee at the range?
00:26:32.860
Yeah. Yeah. I started giving them away actually. That's cool.
00:26:36.280
That's where Black Rifle Coffee Company, that's where the name came from.
00:26:39.220
So I had a little one, I had a little one pound fluid bed coffee roaster on the back tailgate of my truck.
00:26:44.400
I was roasting coffee and teaching lines of fire. So I take this little one pound coffee roaster
00:26:49.940
and I could hook it up to my propane tank and plug it in. I'd be roasting coffee out there
00:26:55.160
and my service rifle was right next to my coffee roaster on my tailgate. One of the guys was like,
00:27:01.500
man, when are you going to start a coffee company? And I was like, I don't know.
00:27:04.620
And I made a joke about Black Rifle Coffee Company because my rifle was sitting right next to my
00:27:09.640
roaster. Matt, Bess and I were friends. We knew each other through a mutual friend. At that time,
00:27:15.680
they had Article 15 clothing. And I went to him and I was like, hey, you guys should do a coffee
00:27:22.340
Oh, so you wanted him to run like basic Article 15 to run it? Is that what you were thinking initially?
00:27:27.100
Yeah. I sold a few hundred pounds of coffee called Freedom Roast, Article 15 clothing. And that was the
00:27:33.680
first, I guess, big coffee run. I had roasted hundreds of pounds of coffee before that, but it was the
00:27:42.020
first account where it was like, oh, I have to roast a couple hundred pounds and have it
00:27:46.240
palletized and put on a truck and sent out to a fulfillment center. Before that-
00:27:50.500
And what were they going to do, run it out of their store or online stores? Is that what they
00:27:54.780
Running out of their online store. For the first year that I had Black Rifle Coffee Company,
00:27:58.860
it was my part-time job that I ran out of my garage. Jeff Kirkham and I had another company
00:28:04.620
called Ready Man. We were running Ready Man and I was roasting coffee in my garage.
00:28:09.420
So when did you then realize, all right, man, I'm onto something here. I've got to step away
00:28:15.460
from this business. I've got to go a little bit more, put more time, energy, money, resources,
00:28:20.360
capital. Was it Black Rifle Coffee at that point? Or was it, hey, we're just making coffee for Article 15?
00:28:27.460
Article 15 clothing sold through that coffee and it did relatively well. What I did was I thought,
00:28:34.920
well, I think there's a business here. And I came back to those guys a few months later and said,
00:28:41.260
hey, I'm going to start a coffee company. I'm going to call it Black Rifle Coffee Company.
00:28:45.520
You know, I got my start through you. If you guys ever want to be equity holders in the coffee
00:28:49.620
company, please let me know. But I'm going to start roasting coffee. You know, like, that's awesome,
00:28:54.220
man. Like, you know, and we were friends. So we were with each other every month anyway,
00:28:58.080
shooting videos and doing crazy shit. About a year later, we all got together and we're like,
00:29:04.420
man, this is actually, it's a good business. We should really concentrate on this. Probably a year,
00:29:09.200
year and a half later, I guess, I brought them in as equity holders. And that was the deal that we made
00:29:14.360
literally over a handshake and probably a couple of beers. And a year and a half later,
00:29:19.440
they were equity holders. And we said, let's just go both feet in and see if we can make this a
00:29:24.440
legitimate company that we can actually have an impact not only on hiring guys, but we can get
00:29:31.740
out of our part-time jobs and move into something that we can do full-time, transition away from all
00:29:38.000
the other shit that we were doing, and just concentrate on developing videos and roasting
00:29:42.900
coffee. So I was the coffee roaster. You know, I was the chief operating officer and the chief
00:29:48.800
marketing guy. And I mean, I did all of the work, but when they came on full-time, it was,
00:29:54.780
they concentrated a lot on that, on the content. Whereas I maintain more of the operational side of
00:29:59.940
things. Yeah. I was going to ask, is that where you felt like your strengths were and maybe even
00:30:04.820
your weaknesses and you had these guys come in because you recognized, you know, obviously Matt's
00:30:08.940
been doing a lot of video and you had these guys come in and handle that side because you didn't feel
00:30:12.880
like you had a grasp on it or was it just, Hey, we're friends and we can all do this together.
00:30:16.580
They're better at it. Like just bottom line, they were, they were way better at content than
00:30:22.140
I am. They still are. I have a mind for specific aspects of the company, which are sometimes their
00:30:29.100
content. We put out some of the content that is through ideation. We all come to the same
00:30:35.100
conclusion. That's really good. Some of that originates with me. Some of it originates with
00:30:39.080
Matt or JT, but they're better. Like Matt's probably one of the best editors, video editors.
00:30:44.680
Oh, so good. I just watched a instructor Earl. What'd you come out with that a couple of weeks
00:30:48.820
ago? I think it's so good, man. It's so good. And Matt, so the way that flowed was this,
00:30:56.160
which was, we were on a trip in Idaho. We were all together. So it was me, Matt, JT and Logan
00:31:02.120
Stark. And we went fishing in Idaho and then we went and met Joe Rogan. He had a show in Boise.
00:31:08.680
We were fishing and, and we were doing what we do, which is we make jokes. And it's just like a
00:31:15.360
constant state of humor when we're together. And we were laughing so fucking hard. We were driving in
00:31:23.700
this Canyon. We didn't have any cell coverage. And we started making this, making up this,
00:31:28.500
this character. And it wasn't for, it wasn't for a video. We were making, just having fun.
00:31:32.780
Yeah. We were just fucking around. And we started making these jokes, but we were crying. We were
00:31:37.240
laughing so hard. And for three hours, we were doing scenarios like instructor Earl scenarios.
00:31:43.480
Right. Cause you had like five or six scenarios that you went through or just, they were classic.
00:31:49.720
But that was three hours of us making each other laugh. And then when we got back, we're like,
00:31:55.140
okay, we've got to film this because we couldn't even talk about it without crying, laughing.
00:31:59.980
We couldn't even talk about it. So we were like, we've got to film this. We think it's funny as
00:32:03.520
all. That's the way they're always formed. It's me and Matt and JT and Logan shooting bows in the
00:32:11.740
backyard of Matt's house or, you know, them at my house having a glass of whiskey. We're just making
00:32:19.200
each other laugh. And in the military, most people know that it's like, hurry up and wait.
00:32:25.100
Right. Yeah. You've got so much downtime to do. You got to find something to do.
00:32:29.980
Yeah. And most of the time we were all the guys. It's funny because we were talking about this
00:32:35.740
the other day. Each one of us is the guy from our unit that would make other people laugh in the
00:32:42.380
unit. Okay. So you guys didn't serve together. You had met each other afterwards.
00:32:46.600
Yeah. Because people, you know how, because people were like, you have to meet my friend
00:32:51.280
Matt because you guys are so crazy. You're going to get together and you guys are going to,
00:32:58.120
you guys are going to one, become best friends. And two, you're going to make something totally
00:33:02.360
out there. And JT was the same way. I think JT and I had talked first and we spent like two hours on
00:33:09.860
the phone the first time we ever talked. And we're just making each other laugh. We all realized a
00:33:15.180
few months later, we were talking about like, Hey, were you the guy in your unit that when there was
00:33:19.300
nothing else to do and you're like waiting to go for a, you know, waiting, waiting to go jump or
00:33:23.540
like sitting on the Humvees doing something, were you the guys like, yeah, every one of us. So it
00:33:29.660
literally, you could say that each one of us was somewhat of a class clown of our unit. And now we're
00:33:35.360
all together at this company and we still just make each other laugh. Like literally our best days in
00:33:41.860
the office are the days where we can carve out time and we still make each other laugh to the point
00:33:50.320
where we probably bend over and cry laughing once a week, I would imagine. But this is what's so cool
00:33:57.180
about business, especially in this climate, in this environment is that you can find guys that you
00:34:01.840
resonate with and do stuff that actually fulfills you. You can have fun, you can laugh and have all of
00:34:06.340
that stuff that enriches your life. And you can be extremely profitable, which you guys have been.
00:34:11.860
And it goes back to what we were saying earlier, you know, why are people doing stuff that they
00:34:15.560
just, they're miserable with and they hate if this isn't a great story of how to take something that
00:34:21.340
you enjoy and turn it into something that's extremely lucrative and fun. I don't know what is.
00:34:26.660
Yeah. You know, I would say the first three years of this business, you couldn't classify it as
00:34:31.720
extremely lucrative. We didn't make enough money to pay ourselves. And, you know, we were rolling
00:34:36.920
everything that we could back into the company because we wanted to build something where
00:34:41.780
we could just, it sounds kind of weird, but we just carve that out and hang out together.
00:34:47.820
Was there a time, let me interrupt you real quick. Cause I want to ask, was there a time where
00:34:51.140
you guys thought, you know what, let's just throw in the towel. Like this is not working. Or maybe
00:34:55.560
one of you were like that. And then the rest of you talked to each other off the ledge. What did that
00:34:59.880
look like? Or did you always say, no, we're good. Keep going. Keep going. All of you.
00:35:03.360
Yeah. All of us. We're all, we've always been the guys that are like, Hey, let's keep going.
00:35:08.600
I think just recently we've got to the point with a company where we're like, Oh, this is going to be
00:35:13.040
around for a while. And we're, we're going to be okay. You know, we're going to be able to pay our
00:35:18.700
mortgages. And that's not been too long, like six months. Oh really? That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Man.
00:35:24.740
We like, we ran this entire thing on a shoestring, you know, with no debt, rolling all our profits
00:35:30.580
back into the company. It was a fucking dogfight, you know, to try to, to try to do that every day,
00:35:36.800
year after year. And, you know, search through your couch for enough change to pay your mortgage,
00:35:42.300
you know, your significant others, or you guys are crazy. Like, what are you guys doing? You're
00:35:47.220
driving us into the, you know, the house of poverty and guys will say, well, you guys have made
00:35:51.720
millions of dollars. And it's like, well, no, the company has, yeah, the company has,
00:35:56.380
and the company also has, you know, 42,000 square foot building in Salt Lake and another 50,000 square
00:36:02.200
feet in Nashville. And they have, you know, two roasters and, you know, a multi-node fulfillment
00:36:06.920
center and a hundred and some employer, 111 employees. That stuff costs money. And to grow a
00:36:13.960
company, you have to find the capital and that capital has to either come from profit. It has to come
00:36:20.080
out of your pocket or you have to find somebody else to give you it. You don't like go and dig
00:36:24.140
it out of the ground. It doesn't happen that way. So we were internally financing our growth and we
00:36:29.700
were growing. We grew, or from first year to our second year, we grew 8.7 X. That growth capital has
00:36:37.980
to come from somewhere. It all came from our profits and all came out of our pockets. Don't get me wrong.
00:36:42.960
I'm not lamenting or complaining. I'm saying like that. This is what it takes. Yeah, it takes. And you
00:36:47.860
got to starve. I always tell guys, it's like, are you prepared to work 20 hours a day and wonder where
00:36:55.880
your mortgage payment's going to come from for years? Are you prepared for that? And then if the
00:37:01.260
answer is yes, then I say, you might be able to make it. Yeah. You may be able to do something with
00:37:06.900
that. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Because the depths of disparity in the company, I never had any doubt
00:37:13.600
that we could make it work, but it is, and I've done some stressful things in my life that would
00:37:19.340
probably make other people go into immediate cardiac arrest, but that it is the single most stressful
00:37:25.680
act I have ever gone through in my life. And you don't sleep, you know, you eat like shit half the
00:37:33.380
time. You're, you're riding a computer and, you know, counseling people. And it's a nonstop level of
00:37:40.920
stress that I don't think people, they have no idea what it feels like to be in a pressure cooker
00:37:48.620
like this for years. I've told this to, I don't know how many people I'm like, I have gone into
00:37:55.100
literally been driving into a gunfight with less stress at times than this company.
00:38:01.420
I think a lot of people just write it off as luck. I think it'd be really easy for anybody looking in
00:38:06.900
to look at your website and look at what you're doing and look at the type of people you're connected
00:38:10.660
with and the type of revenue the business is doing and say, Oh, these guys are lucky because
00:38:14.420
fill in the blank. And they just fail to see whether it's through willful ignorance or just
00:38:20.560
oblivion that there's so much more that goes into this. Yeah. There's maybe a little bit of luck
00:38:26.420
there. There's fortune for sure. I mean, obviously you're going to be in the right place at the right
00:38:31.360
time and some certain things are going to fall into place. But if you're not prepared for that,
00:38:34.740
none of that's going to even matter. Well, and you have to have the stomach for it.
00:38:38.700
Not everybody is cut out for this. Not everybody's cut out to be a Green Beret. Not everybody's cut
00:38:43.620
out to be a Navy SEAL. Not everybody has cut out for this. And this is different than just,
00:38:48.820
and I'm not devaluing it. This is different than owning a small business. This is scaling a company
00:38:54.820
to enterprise value on a national scale and doing that in four and a half years. I'm sure Gary Vee did
00:39:04.160
amazing things, but he has no idea the difference between what he did and what we've done.
00:39:10.140
There is a drastic difference, a drastic difference just in gross revenue, amount of reach per week.
00:39:15.940
And I'm not devaluing him. I'm just saying that. No, of course there's different models for sure.
00:39:20.840
Yeah. Gary Vee did amazing things with his company. He hasn't come close to what we've done
00:39:25.360
in four and a half years. And once again, I'm not trying to brag. I'm saying like we've done something
00:39:30.180
so few companies have been able to do and we've done it in such a condensed time frame just based
00:39:38.300
out of like sheer hard work determination and being able to look into the literally the abyss of fear
00:39:46.800
and go, okay, let's do it. I didn't have outside investors. A lot of guys, it's so funny. People
00:39:53.620
are like, oh, you, you, you had outside investors and stuff. I'm like, I didn't. I invested $1,800 of
00:39:58.380
my own money. I made $1.3 million in gross revenue. My first year as a part-time job with Black Rifle,
00:40:08.040
I worked no less than 20 hours a day. Some days I would work 30 some hours in a row. I had a
00:40:15.660
Therm-a-Rest below my desk next to the roaster. That year I paid myself $16,000.
00:40:28.640
Yes. The revenue and the growth, if I robbed a penny from the growth, I was robbing the growth
00:40:37.300
of my company. The least amount of money that I could afford. And I used to think I didn't take
00:40:42.020
any money out of it. And it wasn't until I went back and, and looked and I actually loaned myself
00:40:47.920
money from the company to pay my rent. Did you pay that back into the company?
00:40:56.340
Men, we've got some exciting announcements inside the Iron Council, including a new membership site
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order of man.com slash iron council. In the meantime, we'll get back to this conversation with
00:41:44.700
Evan. My first year, I technically didn't make any money and people are like, your company made $1.3
00:41:53.360
million. Yeah. My company made $1.3 million. I drove this same car. I sold two houses. I had a
00:42:01.820
house in Denver that my wife owned. I had a house in Seattle that I owned. We sold two homes. I had
00:42:07.760
over $30,000 in credit card debt, which I had leveraged to buy inventory. And I didn't pay myself.
00:42:13.840
Basically, I didn't pay myself a dime because I'd loaned it and then I had to pay the money back the
00:42:18.140
next year. You know, thank God for Jeff Kirkham because Jeff Kirkham had been able to squirrel enough
00:42:23.120
money away where he actually loaned me some money too, because I was starving. My first year was
00:42:29.700
20 hours a day, nonstop customer service, roasting, bagging, packaging, grinding. And then I would go
00:42:37.960
to my day job. I would work in my day job, but my other day job was another company that Jeff and I
00:42:43.240
owned. So how does somebody know then if they're cut out for this? Is it, you have an ability to put
00:42:48.480
up with that and deal with that for a time longer than most, most humans will? Or is there other
00:42:54.240
factors at play here that somebody might say, okay, I'm cut out for this or I'm not?
00:42:59.660
Yeah. I think part of being an entrepreneur and I'm not the brightest guy in the, in the room by any
00:43:04.900
stretch of the imagination. Uh, you know, I'm the guy that went to college and didn't realize that you
00:43:08.820
could take college loans and just worked up, worked my ass off on the farm, not out of ego,
00:43:13.200
just out of stupidity. You know, I think a lot of guys, they don't necessarily know if they're cut
00:43:20.600
out to do it. But what I've always known is I know the depth on which I can endure. And that's a lot
00:43:28.760
of guys don't understand that because they haven't been to the deepest, darkest corners of their own
00:43:34.720
mind to understand how difficult things can be. Whereas this company never jeopardized my life,
00:43:41.420
limb or eyesight. This company wasn't going to plan an IED and blow my legs off or kill my friend.
00:43:47.020
I wasn't going to carry this, this company home in a casket and watch their wives cry and their kids
00:43:53.420
go without a father. The company never scared me in running. The company never scared me like looking
00:44:00.840
my friend's wives in the eyes and knowing that they're never going to see their husband ever again
00:44:05.680
and their children aren't going to see their father. My company has always been a joke compared to
00:44:10.520
that. So for me, it's serious business. It's very serious business. But it's never going to scare
00:44:18.520
me as much as that. And so I knew I had been to the depths of my insecurities. I knew whether or not
00:44:28.360
I was a man of metal and whether or not I could endure a significant amount of pain and hardship.
00:44:34.960
So I could lean my ladder against the fact I can do much more. I can go without sleep. I can go
00:44:42.140
without food. I can tighten my belt. I can sell my shit. But you know what I can't live without?
00:44:49.120
Freedom. I needed to own my own business because I wanted to own my life. That is the single most
00:44:56.960
effective driving force I will ever have in my life outside of my wife and two kids.
00:45:02.960
I was buying and learning my own freedom. I never wanted to work for the government again.
00:45:08.460
And I would do literally anything and everything I could do within my power and obviously ethical
00:45:16.140
left and right to buy my freedom through knowledge, which meant I had to put myself through
00:45:23.560
the ultimate grinder and ultimately learn how to survive outside of the government. I had to be
00:45:32.920
able to feed myself. Not everybody's going to know that about themselves going into it. The company is
00:45:38.760
not going to put me in my hope. It's not going to put me in the ground. And you know, the single most
00:45:43.780
valuable thing that I have is my relationship with my kids and my my business partner. Well, my kids,
00:45:50.740
my wife, my business partners. Outside of that, the money that the company generates or the profit
00:45:56.640
the company generates, it's irrelevant. And when I say it's relevant to the success and being able to
00:46:03.120
define the company's success, the real success of the company is the fact that I get to run it
00:46:09.000
with great people and go home to a family that I love. I get to do that. The government's not calling
00:46:15.000
me and telling me that I have to be, you know, in Syria with an M4 in two weeks. I'm going to be
00:46:20.300
there for 90 days and I'm going to be managed by a person that might or might not have the best
00:46:26.260
interest of me and my family at heart. Yeah. No, it makes total sense. You know,
00:46:30.280
and the other beauty of this too, is that for whatever reason, and people have asked me, you know,
00:46:34.220
what if order of man goes under, what would you do if order of man fell apart? I'm like order of man
00:46:38.920
2.0. You can't take away those skills. You know, you might be able to take away the business.
00:46:44.100
The landscape might change a little bit, but there's certain skills that I've developed through
00:46:48.340
running this business and you have as well through running yours that can't ever be stripped away
00:46:52.380
from you. And that's powerful because you have that autonomy like you're talking about.
00:46:56.760
And I talk about all that all the time, which we've developed certain amount of skills that
00:47:01.220
they can't take those things away. Black grateful coffee will be around for decades at this point.
00:47:06.840
It's not going anywhere, but it's interesting now because now I have a tangible skill that
00:47:12.600
ultimately you can, you know, pack up your bags. And, you know, if I decided to move on from the CEO
00:47:18.600
to do something else, I would still be doing business. I wouldn't go back to doing something
00:47:25.020
else. I would still be in business because I truly do love it too. Like now I'm, I would say I'm
00:47:31.640
probably a more successful businessman than I ever was an SF guy. I've redefined myself
00:47:37.440
rightfully so, because I think that I've put in the correct amount of hours and ultimately the
00:47:41.780
amount of sacrifice that it needs to redefine myself as a businessman.
00:47:46.980
And I think it's really good. We talk about this too, because there's a lot of guys out there and
00:47:51.080
gals, veterans who have wrapped themselves so heavily in their previous identity. And they don't
00:47:57.140
even realize how translatable a lot of those skills are when they come out into the civilian side of
00:48:02.100
things and want to run organizations or work for businesses. They don't even see the value they
00:48:06.500
provide. And you're talking a lot about what you learned through your time in the military and how
00:48:11.720
translatable it is over here. But you guys are doing something pretty cool that I thought, which is
00:48:15.440
you've donated quite a bit of money to help some of these entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs
00:48:21.540
go from military service to becoming an entrepreneur. Tell us a little bit about that.
00:48:27.540
For me, the company and the profit of the company always has to be turned into something good.
00:48:33.060
I believe in veteran entrepreneurship. I believe that the veterans should be starting businesses.
00:48:39.780
They should be, and I talk about this a lot where I want veterans to emancipate themselves from
00:48:44.880
government service and transition into a life of fulfillment through owning their own business.
00:48:50.740
I think that we're an incredible force multiplier. I think that we will continue to hire at much
00:48:56.640
higher rate other veterans. So for me, I look at things very simplistic. If I create more veteran
00:49:03.420
entrepreneurs and businessmen, they're going to create more veteran opportunities for employment.
00:49:08.760
So we'll be able to hire our brothers and sisters that have deployed and literally been carrying a
00:49:14.240
rucksack for the nation for a long period of time. And we are going to set a new bar for success.
00:49:20.740
within the company, I think, as far as business. And then through business, I think people are going
00:49:27.440
to become more involved in their communities in order to apply the correct amount of influence within
00:49:32.460
their communities, meaning their cities and their counties. Business is an incredibly impactful way
00:49:39.300
to be part of your community. I think veterans are naturally inclined to do it. I think that
00:49:46.460
they will be very successful, but they really have to get through the initial phases of
00:49:52.860
I'm transitioning through the military, take all my skills, learn something new.
00:49:59.020
You know, one of the initiatives that we've done is we started the Launch Code podcast,
00:50:03.780
which is it's a veteran entrepreneur podcast for the most part.
00:50:07.240
It's just our life and trials and tribulations and business, which I hope that's not a shameless plug
00:50:12.740
for my podcast either. No, that's why we're here, man. I'll make sure to share that because
00:50:16.740
I've listened to that as well. Oh, cool. Thanks, man. And then through
00:50:20.200
Pentagon Federal Credit Union, we teamed up with them and we've allocated half a million dollars to
00:50:24.960
veteran businesses, startups and entrepreneurs. $200,000 of that is from Black Rifle Coffee.
00:50:31.420
I've just been fortunate enough to be in this position where I can do that. I can say,
00:50:36.460
I think this is really important. Let's fund these initiatives. And I think that money will go
00:50:42.400
much further to a cause that I truly believe in, which is decreasing veteran unemployment.
00:50:49.600
And we have to increase the happiness level of veterans. They have to be more fulfilled.
00:50:54.520
They have to have a mission. They have to be more fulfilled. They have to be professionally fulfilled.
00:50:59.340
And I think we're going to do that through starting more businesses. Never in the time of U.S.
00:51:03.780
history. Veterans started more businesses than post-World War II. Veterans statistically have a
00:51:11.160
much higher rate of success, meaning businesses that don't collapse. I think that we're on the
00:51:17.120
precipice of seeing a big explosion of veteran entrepreneurs and businessmen. And I want to be
00:51:23.060
as helpful and impactful as I can when it comes to that. Man, I got to tell you, I appreciate the
00:51:27.980
work that you've been doing. I mean, I've been following you guys for long enough that even outside of
00:51:31.820
this initiative with the credit union is I've seen what you guys are doing for the veteran community.
00:51:37.020
And I got to tell you, it's really inspiring and pretty powerful to see as well. Let me ask you a
00:51:42.040
couple of questions, man, as we wind down. The first one I prepared you for a little bit is what
00:51:46.160
does it mean to be a man? Well, I think you first have to have a male genitalia. I think that would
00:51:52.360
probably... That's the first qualifier. Absolutely.
00:51:55.660
My father taught me this a long time ago, which is your word is your bond. Being a man is about
00:52:04.240
saying what is on your mind, being truthful, and then following your words with action.
00:52:11.640
When you tell somebody you're going to do something, it's going to get done. And it's
00:52:16.460
going to be on time, on target, and it's going to be above standard. A man has to live by an ethical
00:52:22.720
code. And that can come from the Bible. It can come from your family values. It can come from
00:52:29.420
philosophy. But ultimately, you really do have to live by an ethical code. You have to propagate that,
00:52:38.180
at least tell people what that is. And you have to speak your mind. You have to be as candid as
00:52:44.180
possible. And you have to follow your mind with action because ideas are a plenty and they're quite
00:52:50.980
literally useless without action. So for me, my word is my bond. When I talk to people, I try to
00:52:58.880
do exactly what I tell them. They try to be as truthful and transparent as I can, regardless of
00:53:04.800
the outcome. And then I follow my words with action because words are irrelevant unless you put some
00:53:10.840
substance to them. For me, being a man, I am what I feel is the provider and the protector of my family
00:53:19.040
too. Probably my most important charter as a man is to be the guy that ultimately provides for my
00:53:27.560
family, but not just provides the basics, but provides them the structure to thrive. When I say
00:53:34.760
I want good children, I want great children that can move past me and survive and succeed in a very
00:53:42.920
complex society. So I've got two little girls at home. One of the most important things that I do
00:53:50.680
as a man is being a father. You know, responsibilities, I think is, you know, being responsible,
00:53:57.200
being truthful or having candor, being radically transparent. Being a man of love is incredibly
00:54:03.760
important. Without passion, without emotion, I think you're just a robot. So those are the things
00:54:10.280
that I think that are important in being a man. Man, I love it. I agree with all of that stuff.
00:54:14.340
And I know a lot of guys do too. So how do we connect with you? Obviously we've got the,
00:54:17.780
you had mentioned it a minute ago, the Launch Code podcast. We'll link that up.
00:54:21.120
Where else should we go to connect with you, learn more about what you're doing and pick up some
00:54:24.660
products? Evan Hafer. So E-V-A-N-H-A-F-E-R on Instagram. My company is Black Rifle Coffee on Instagram,
00:54:33.160
blackriflecoffee.com. We've got Launch Code. That's one of our podcasts. We've also got Drinking Bros,
00:54:38.640
which is just us talking shit for an hour, quite literally, just literally try to make each other
00:54:43.620
laugh for an hour. So you can find me in those places and you can DM me on Instagram or hit me
00:54:48.720
up on LinkedIn. Depending on the week that I'm in, it might take me a minute to get back to you, but
00:54:53.540
for sure I get back to about everybody. Right on, man. We'll link it all up. I just
00:54:57.740
want to tell you again, I appreciate you and how you guys show up. I've admired you guys and what
00:55:01.580
you've done specifically and Matt and JT, all the guys, Jeff, and then the company as well. And I've
00:55:06.440
certainly tried to take and emulate a little bit about what you've done in my own organization and
00:55:11.040
it's been helpful. Whether you realize it or not, it's been helpful in allowing me to grow this to
00:55:15.140
something that I have some autonomy and some control over. So I really appreciate the insight
00:55:19.880
and you taking some time to spend with us today, man. Thanks. Dude, thanks for having me. I
00:55:24.300
definitely appreciate it. Your beard is much to be desired and order a man's doing some fucking cool
00:55:29.340
stuff, man. I appreciate it. I think one of the first videos I saw with you and Matt was,
00:55:33.340
if I remember right, it was something like, you don't have to have a beard to be a man. And I
00:55:37.720
think, and I think that that was you in that video, right? Cause that was like one of the very
00:55:41.580
first videos that I watched. And so it's pretty good video. And that's super funny, man. I,
00:55:47.380
we were like flying in a helicopter and it's been my pleasure. I truly do thank you for what you're
00:55:55.080
doing for the community. Cause I think you're doing a ton of great work. People need guys that are out
00:56:00.460
there actioning. They need the executioners of this piece and they definitely need the guys that
00:56:06.080
are, that are beating the drum and inspiring people every day. So it's important work, man.
00:56:11.200
And I thank you for being part of that. Gentlemen, there it is such a powerful conversation with my
00:56:17.000
friend, Evan Hafer. I hope you enjoyed this one. If you're looking to grow a business or you have a
00:56:21.700
project on the side that you're doing, I hope, and I barely confident that you walked away with a lot
00:56:27.640
of valuable, valuable information regarding how to build a business and how to turn something that
00:56:33.240
is a passion of yours into something that will lead to profits, which of course will be the
00:56:38.900
lifeline for you to continue to do that thing in a more meaningful and significant way. So guys,
00:56:42.980
go connect with Evan, go connect with Black Rifle Coffee, connect with me on Instagram, Facebook,
00:56:48.080
Twitter, wherever you're doing the social media thing. And let us know what you thought of the show.
00:56:52.020
Give us some feedback, reach out to Evan, tell him what you thought, reach out to me,
00:56:54.840
tell me what you thought. And all of that, all of that feedback goes a long way in helping me to
00:57:00.440
continue to bring on not only great guests, but also to get better, just get better at having
00:57:07.080
these conversations and knowing exactly how they're going to serve you best. So guys, if you are going
00:57:11.920
to connect with me, do that on Instagram at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M-I-C-H-L-E-R or on
00:57:18.680
Facebook, on Twitter, on YouTube at orderofman.com. Leave us a rating review on iTunes,
00:57:24.580
wherever you are, we're there, connect with us. I want to hear from you. And as I cap this thing
00:57:29.860
off, just like I do every single week, we'll end this with a thank you. Thank you for being on this
00:57:33.700
journey with me. Thank you for inspiring me. Thank you for leading and uplifting in your families,
00:57:39.180
in your businesses, in your communities. I am inspired each and every day by what it is you
00:57:43.140
are doing as a man. And I could not do this without you. So gentlemen, until tomorrow for our
00:57:48.080
Ask Me Anything, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:57:54.580
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life
00:57:59.360
and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.