Order of Man - Purpose, Passion, and Profit ｜ EVAN HAFER

00:00:00.000 So many people believe that the term purpose and profit are mutually exclusive, that for one to

00:00:05.120 exist, the other can't, and that just isn't the case. In fact, when you learn to align your purpose

00:00:10.600 and passion with the ability to make a profit, you have a greater ability to impact the world

00:00:15.620 in a positive way. Today, I'm joined by the founder of Black Rifle Coffee Company, Evan

00:00:19.640 Hafer, to talk about how he's managed to build such a successful business around what was simply

00:00:25.320 a passion project. We talk about the power of utilizing new media for marketing, finding

00:00:30.120 and speaking to your tribe, sacrificing ego on the altar of business, and how to align

00:00:36.260 purpose, passion, and profit. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace

00:00:41.460 your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one

00:00:46.640 more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is

00:00:53.900 your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and

00:00:59.120 after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:03.660 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the

00:01:07.320 founder of this podcast, The Order of Man. The way that I start this thing out every week

00:01:11.300 is to tell you what we're all about, and this is really, really important because we have

00:01:14.420 so many new members, so many new listeners of the podcast over the past several weeks, and

00:01:19.660 I'm not really sure what's going on other than it seems to me that the mission and the

00:01:24.140 message of our organization, which is to protect, provide, preside, and helping lift men up and

00:01:30.860 reclaiming and restoring what it means to be a man is widening. I think the message and

00:01:36.600 the word is getting out there, so I'm glad you're here. If you're tuning in for the first

00:01:39.700 time, if you've been with us for any amount of time, I want to welcome you back, and also

00:01:43.360 at the same time, thank you for sharing, for sharing with your friends and your colleagues

00:01:47.780 and your coworkers, family members, fathers, brothers, cousins, whoever it may be, any

00:01:51.860 man that needs to understand a little bit more about what it means to be a man and how

00:01:56.640 we are to step up in the walls of our home, our businesses, and community. So guys, I've

00:02:02.140 got a fascinating discussion with you today, as we always do. I hope you're liking the new

00:02:05.680 format over the past, I'd say, two to three months now. We've changed up the format a little

00:02:10.120 bit. It's not so much of an interview as it is a conversation, so I'd love to hear your

00:02:14.980 feedback. The goods, the bad, the ugly, whatever you like. If you don't like, if you have feedback,

00:02:18.960 suggestions, podcast, guest, recommendations, whatever it may be, I want to hear from you.

00:02:23.420 I'm very active over on Instagram, at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M-I-C-H-L-E-R,

00:02:29.600 and that's probably the best place to get a hold of me. Again, that's over on Instagram.

00:02:33.680 We're going to get into the conversation here in a minute. I do want to make a mention of my

00:02:37.620 friends. I've done this for about two months now. It's the guys over at Origin, and if you're

00:02:43.660 not listening to their podcast, by the way, it's called the Hands in Daylight podcast. You

00:02:47.160 obviously like podcasts because you're listening to this one. Pete Roberts and Brian Littlefield

00:02:51.360 have an incredible podcast called Hands in Daylight, so make sure you check that out.

00:02:56.040 And then also, if you're doing any sort of jiu-jitsu, which I know a lot of you are because

00:03:00.320 I'm getting messages from you about my jiu-jitsu experience over the past three or four months

00:03:06.300 now, if you are doing jiu-jitsu, if you need a gi, rash guards, any of their supplemental

00:03:12.160 lineup, which is partnered up with Jocko, that's their MULC, which is a protein, super

00:03:16.500 krill, joint warfare, all of it. They've got all of it. Just head over to originmain.com,

00:03:22.960 originmain.com, and make sure you use the code ORDER, O-R-D-E-R, at checkout. I've talked

00:03:28.660 with them. We've got a 10% discount on anything that you purchase, again, over at Origin, Maine.

00:03:33.920 Gies, rash guards, training gear, supplemental lineup, lifestyle apparel, you name it. They've

00:03:38.640 got it. They're doing wonderful things. They're not just a sponsor of the show. These guys

00:03:42.360 are personal friends of mine, and they're doing wonderful, wonderful things in the state

00:03:45.920 of Maine, and everything is 100% made in America. Again, originmain.com, and use the code ORDER,

00:03:51.840 at checkout. All right, guys, with that said, let's get into my conversation today. Let me

00:03:57.220 introduce you to my guest. First of all, his name is Evan Hafer. A lot of you guys may not

00:04:01.280 necessarily recognize the name, but I bet, I'd be willing to bet that most of you listening

00:04:05.760 are familiar with his company, Black Rifle Coffee Company. He is a former member of the

00:04:10.460 Special Forces, and between multiple combat deployments, he spent time honing his firearm

00:04:15.700 and roasting skills, of all things. And when Evan left the service in 2015, he learned how

00:04:22.000 to market himself and a business, and then he turned his second passion for roasting coffee

00:04:26.900 into not only a full-time business, but a global coffee company that is recognized for

00:04:32.620 their viral irreverent videos and marketing campaigns, and of course, their coffee.

00:04:39.220 Now, I will be the first to tell you that I do not drink coffee myself, but when I had the chance

00:04:43.680 to connect with Evan, I couldn't pass him up as he's clearly onto something when it comes to

00:04:48.020 building a movement and working to employ our nation's veterans. So sit back, relax,

00:04:53.260 enjoy the conversation, you guys, with Black Rifle Coffee Company founder, Evan Hafer.

00:04:59.020 Evan, what's up, man? Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:05:00.980 Dude, thanks for having me. It's my honor and privilege to be on the show.

00:05:04.720 I got to say, and I'll start with this disclaimer, you are one of my favorite companies that I have

00:05:09.180 never used their primary product, believe it or not. I just don't drink coffee.

00:05:14.840 I've heard that before. It's in our mission statement, which is we serve coffee and culture

00:05:20.020 to people that love America. And so people can consume either our coffee or our content,

00:05:27.300 but we get a lot of people that are like, man, I love your content, but I don't drink coffee.

00:05:31.940 Could you guys do like a tea or something? And I'm like, I'm not a tea guy. I don't know tea.

00:05:36.780 So that's good. I mean, you stick to your lane, right?

00:05:39.020 Yeah. Yeah. I try to stick with coffee because that's my passion and that's what we do. And

00:05:42.900 you know, that's, that's kind of where the core competency of the company rests. So

00:05:46.900 you got to stick with something.

00:05:48.120 I like that you talk about culture because that's one of the things that resonates with

00:05:51.200 me just about anything else. I mean, obviously humor is a big part of what you're doing and

00:05:55.880 a little bit of irreverence, if that's the right word, but man, you guys just do a great,

00:06:00.540 great job with your marketing and then bringing veterans into the organization,

00:06:04.120 then having a cause to rally around, quite frankly.

00:06:06.520 It's interesting when we, well, I guess when I started, I don't, I guess not we, I really

00:06:12.040 didn't have this, you know, great idea of building this company with hundreds of people. I was just

00:06:17.380 roasting coffee in my garage and it was something that me and my buddies were doing. We were entertaining

00:06:22.180 each other with videos. We've always done that. You know, since I met Matt and JT and all these guys

00:06:28.100 from Heart 15 clothing, we've been doing video for so long. And mainly it's just for other guys like

00:06:33.460 us where we just wanted to make them laugh. We thought, well, why don't we just infuse our creativity

00:06:39.960 with something that we also enjoy? I'm just super happy when guys tell me like, man, we love your

00:06:45.020 videos. They're awesome. They make me laugh. I'm like, perfect. That's what we're trying to do. We're

00:06:49.020 really just trying to entertain people.

00:06:51.060 Well, and I think that's so cool too, because in society, think in general, like everybody's so afraid

00:06:56.060 of, you know, offending people and hurting people's feelings. And we've lost just the sense of,

00:07:00.960 let's just have some fun. You know, we can poke fun at each other without it being personal or even us

00:07:05.480 really meaning it all that much. I think that's part of the benefit of comedy and just lightening

00:07:10.980 up a little bit. I couldn't agree more. It's one of those things where people take themselves so

00:07:16.760 seriously. Companies, they just whitewash their narratives and distill it down to just the most

00:07:23.740 benign characters that you could ever imagine. It's just absolute trash. So for me, 1.00

00:07:30.400 I think marketing, it should be fun. It should be authentic. It should be something that you're

00:07:35.700 very, I guess, for a product to be interactive with their marketing, it says more about the

00:07:41.120 company. And I want people to know about the company. I want them to know we care about not

00:07:46.160 only how we market the company, but we care about the product. So if you think that our marketing's

00:07:50.380 great, you should try the product. That's really what we're, what we're trying to do is the value

00:07:56.020 proposition in people's lives is to create positivity. It's to make them laugh, kind of to

00:08:01.060 troll people in a way to, to make them laugh, but in a way shed light on how sensitive people are.

00:08:08.140 This totally PC culture that we're living in, you never see authentic. And so when you see it,

00:08:16.480 you're like, man, this is cool. It's authentic. It's real for us. We are real. You know, I'm not

00:08:21.620 sitting in some weird ivory tower in some office driving a limousine. I'm just a guy that's trying

00:08:28.100 to build a company and you want to see that. And we want to push that across to the customer that

00:08:33.620 we're just real people trying to make people laugh and roast a high quality product.

00:08:38.160 I imagine too is, and I don't know, because obviously I'm not studying the demographics of

00:08:42.240 what you're doing, but I got to assume this is a pretty crowded market space. And so to your point

00:08:46.480 about whitewashing everything down, if you look the same, talk the same, act the same as

00:08:51.400 everybody else, I can't imagine you'd have the level of success that you have in a relatively

00:08:55.460 short period of time. I had a theory on this a long time ago, which was I wanted to slap people

00:09:00.520 in the face and wake them up with marketing because I could not see or find great marketing anywhere.

00:09:08.760 I felt like if you could wake people up, you know, shake them up a little bit and go, wow,

00:09:13.480 this is totally different. I'm not, I've never seen something like this before. These guys are crazy.

00:09:18.260 You know, we would have a better chance in this crowded marketplace because it is a very 0.96

00:09:23.620 competitive industry. Coffee is one of those things where it's very crowded. You know, there's

00:09:28.640 a lot of people roasting a lot of coffee. So for us to be able to reach out, connect with our

00:09:34.460 customers, that was super important. But if you just distill it down to, hey, I'm Black Rifle Coffee

00:09:41.460 and I saw coffee, nobody's going to listen. Nobody's going to care.

00:09:47.600 Even the veteran thing, and I'm not trying to dismiss this or downplay this at all,

00:09:51.520 because I respect what you're doing. I respect what your team has done and those who've served

00:09:54.620 this nation. But frankly, even the veteran thing is played on a little bit, if you will,

00:09:59.640 and like overused. So if that's the depth of your marketing, I think that could fall short too.

00:10:04.320 We've actually dialed that back because we want people to engage with our content. We want people

00:10:09.420 to engage with the company, not because we've served the country. That's something we're very

00:10:13.960 proud of. Trust me, I served the country for 20 years and a wide variety of professions. I want

00:10:21.240 people to buy my product because they like the product. I want people to consume my content because

00:10:28.820 they like the content. I think it devalues a company if the only thing that you're leaning your

00:10:34.420 ladder against is the fact that you are a veteran. That is something that you should be proud of.

00:10:39.420 It is something that you should absolutely tell people because it's part of your company.

00:10:43.960 Absolutely.

00:10:44.500 It's part of being transparent and authentic. It's part of your company. But if that's the only

00:10:49.200 thing you're going to market with, boy, you're going to have some trouble. And for us, in videos and

00:10:55.720 things like that, we've hardly ever said we're veterans in some of our marketing messages and some

00:11:03.180 of the more ad-driven stuff that's more outsourced. That stuff says veteran-owned and operated.

00:11:08.520 But our videos are just about entertaining people and informing them. But we're not leading with the

00:11:15.380 fact like, hey, Evan was a Green Beret. No, I'm just a coffee roaster that likes to do funny

00:11:21.400 marketing messages.

00:11:23.400 Well, and one of the things I've heard you talk about too is that you don't define yourself by

00:11:28.620 being a Green Beret or serving in the military. And when you do, I think you end up pigeonholing

00:11:34.680 yourself because you're not going to be in the military forever. And what I see and have experienced

00:11:39.320 is that when you leave the military, if you hung your hat on, I'm a warrior, and now you're no longer

00:11:45.960 that warrior in that context, it's going to be a difficult transition for you.

00:11:51.500 You know, and I think you're right. I think that a lot of guys, when they transition out,

00:11:57.000 they've got their entire identity tied into their military occupational skill.

00:12:03.480 That's not a bad thing because that's your tribe. That's your tribe. That's where you're coming from.

00:12:08.280 And every person within the tribe has their tribal identity. However, for me, it was really important

00:12:14.960 when I transitioned out to take everything that I learned and I loved about the military,

00:12:20.880 but turn the page on it. I've always wanted to go out and roast coffee. I mean, since literally 1997.

00:12:29.200 And for me, being a Green Beret and working for the CIA, that was part of my life. It made me who I was,

00:12:36.660 but I was turning the page. I was starting a new chapter in my life. It wasn't going to define me

00:12:42.040 because if working for the CIA was going to define me for the rest of my life, dude, I would be in

00:12:47.760 trouble. And if my green hat was going to define me for the rest of my life, I would be in big trouble

00:12:54.180 as well. What do you mean? What kind of things would that have caused if you would have continued

00:12:59.540 to go down that path or hung your hat on being those professions? My dad told me something that

00:13:06.120 resonated with me several years ago. And he said, driving down the road, your front windshield is

00:13:12.160 huge. Your rear view mirror is tiny. You're moving into the future and you have to concentrate

00:13:18.960 completely on the future and only look at the past to give you better essay and where you're going.

00:13:26.020 That's interesting. So you're saying that you would have limited your perspective had you been

00:13:30.820 so focused on the past? Correct. Yeah, you do. And I think that's very indicative to a lot of guys

00:13:38.060 where they transitioned out and they have a really hard time transitioning away from the identity that

00:13:43.880 they had. You honestly have to give birth to a new you. It's fucking crazy to say that, but you really

00:13:50.440 have to give birth to a new you and say, I was who I was. You know, I was a corporal in the Marine Corps 0.99

00:13:56.620 or a sergeant major or whatever it is. Today is a new day. And now if I'm going to go into business,

00:14:03.060 I have to reinvent myself as a businessman, which means the rules and the game has changed.

00:14:09.440 I can take all my experience. I can take all the things that I've learned. And those are tools for

00:14:14.340 me to solve complex problems. But I have to start over. And if you look at it from my perspective,

00:14:20.640 starting over, it becomes easier because you literally know nothing. There is not an expectation

00:14:28.300 that I'm going to be an amazing businessman because I was a Green Beret. That is not an

00:14:33.300 assumption. It was never an assumption in my mind. It was being a special forces guy taught me a lot.

00:14:40.060 Deploying for 10 years in the agency taught me even more because it galvanized my training that I had

00:14:47.560 within, you know, the special forces community, galvanized that. And then through repetition,

00:14:53.040 I learned a lot of really complex problem solving and split decision making that I've been able to

00:14:59.280 take into my second life as a businessman that's helped me succeed. But at the end of the day,

00:15:07.300 if I'm focused on the fact that I used to be a Green Beret or I used to work for the agency,

00:15:12.280 I'm not focused on being a great businessman, which would require me what I say is you have to

00:15:18.560 sacrifice your ego on the altar of business. And it is a sacrificial lamb that you have to put a knife

00:15:25.740 in and spill the blood over the floor. And if you don't, you're going to run into obstacles,

00:15:30.580 massive obstacles, because your ego will literally put up so many walls, you won't be able to succeed.

00:15:38.080 Those false expectations that I've had in the past of being successful in certain areas,

00:15:42.740 and then assuming that it's going to equate to me being successful in other areas has produced nothing but

00:15:48.100 frustration and discontent for the lack of growth that I had expected to experience.

00:15:57.120 That's the expectation that people set themselves up and say, I was an amazing soldier. I was amazing

00:16:02.280 this, that. That doesn't necessarily translate. This is a different language. It's a different

00:16:07.080 context. It's a different environment. I transitioned away from the military. And a lot of the things that

00:16:13.080 I transitioned away from the military with were great. I mean, they're incredible skills.

00:16:18.100 Lots of repetition. And the culture and the climate that I came out of, it made it somewhat of a

00:16:24.260 difficult transition for me as well, because you communicate completely differently than civilians. 0.99

00:16:30.580 I might use the F word 20 times in one fucking sentence. People will go, I don't know what you're 0.99

00:16:36.660 talking about. One. And two, they'll perceive what I'm talking about as aggression, where that's not,

00:16:44.100 I'm not, I'm not. Right. You're not angry or anything. No, no, no, no, no. But I cannot tell

00:16:48.360 you how many times that people have talked to me about, man, are you, are you upset or something? 0.99

00:16:53.100 I'm like, no, dude, let's get some shit done. Let's fucking go. I'm motivated. I want to work. 0.99

00:16:57.860 How do you find the line though, between, let's just take that example of, you know, being who you are

00:17:03.520 and having your experience and language in the military is certainly different than like you had

00:17:07.700 mentioned civilian life. So how do you find the balance between being who you are, but then also,

00:17:13.980 I don't know if catering is the right word, but just being aware of other people who are receiving

00:17:17.940 your message. You have to be aware. I mean, it's something that I struggled with. I think

00:17:22.700 definitely my first year and a half, people don't necessarily understand the context of humor.

00:17:28.060 They don't understand that like vernacular is a big one. They just can't, they, they, they've never

00:17:33.200 been there. It's a subculture and it's a team room, right? When I've recruited people that come

00:17:38.440 to work for the company, I recruited a lot of military people. That's really good because you

00:17:43.040 can condense your communication and increase your success. Because everybody has what,

00:17:48.680 like a basic foundational communication baseline, if you will. Yeah, exactly. And then with the people

00:17:56.080 that haven't served in the military, it's a very specific personality that allows you to

00:18:02.080 communicate effectively because they have to have really, really thick skin, right? I practice

00:18:07.060 something called radical transparency within the company. So, you know, if people are walking down

00:18:12.160 the hall and they're like, I don't fucking like that shirt, that's acceptable in my company. Because 0.96

00:18:16.960 what I want from everybody in the company is to wear the truth literally on the front of their,

00:18:24.360 their t-shirt where they have to communicate effectively and cut to the bone as fast as they can.

00:18:30.600 And the people that are easily offended, this is not a good cultural fit for them.

00:18:35.980 That's the thing that we all have to kind of decide, which is, this is an ecosystem. The company

00:18:41.320 is an ecosystem and it's defined by me and the other owners. The people that you hire are invited

00:18:47.500 into your ecosystem. They're invited onto your island. And at the end of the day, if they don't fit,

00:18:54.260 that doesn't mean they're not going to fit in with somebody else's island and somebody else's

00:18:57.900 ecosystem. It just means they're not a good fit for your company.

00:19:00.780 Right. And it doesn't even mean that they're wrong or a bad person or anything like that. Absolutely.

00:19:05.340 It doesn't. It just means that they're not a good fit. And I think a lot of people take that way too

00:19:11.700 personally. They take it as if, oh, I was going to get married or, you know, like you were the love

00:19:18.080 of my life kind of a scenario. It's like, well, man, this is a company and it's a job. And more

00:19:22.940 importantly, the way that you define a company and its ecosystem will define how successful it is,

00:19:28.440 not from your strategic or financial goals. It's how happy are people when they walk through the

00:19:35.520 doors and put in eight to 12 hours. So if you build the ecosystem, not for the one person,

00:19:43.180 it's built for the majority to succeed and be happy. And you offload the people that don't fit as fast as

00:19:51.320 you can. You have to be maniacal about it. You have to be really upfront and say, listen, it's just

00:19:56.820 not a good fit, man. Like that's not, it's nothing personal. This is our Island and we're super

00:20:02.120 protective of who's out here. And you know, you can go find another one. How much do you feel like

00:20:08.100 you are currently dictating the course or direction of that ecosystem versus it just kind of evolving

00:20:15.400 and growing and maybe even morphing to a degree and handling a lot of that on its own?

00:20:19.960 I think as a CEO, that's one of your primary responsibilities. You know, as the tribal

00:20:24.640 chief, so to speak, you are defining it. And when I say that, it's really commander's intent. And then

00:20:31.460 it's up to the rest of the people within the company to go out and execute what you feel the

00:20:37.520 direction of the company. And I should say, you feel the company needs to move in a certain way.

00:20:44.080 So yeah, as the CEO of the company, that is my responsibility. I have to define it. And then I have

00:20:50.920 to check in with the other C levels of the company and then other people within the company to make

00:20:55.820 sure that the environment is maintaining the same kind of stable environment that I've set out. And if

00:21:03.500 you're the CEO that doesn't want to do that, you're going to run the risk of a very chaotic

00:21:09.200 environment and, or you have to find somebody to compensate and offset your ability or lack of

00:21:15.480 ability to actually define what the culture is. I don't want to say it's easier. I don't like using

00:21:20.500 that term, but I imagine it is maybe a little bit more simplified or again, I don't know the word

00:21:26.600 now because you've attracted the right people and you've been doing this long enough where those

00:21:31.520 people are actually out probably searching you out. And by the same measure, you're probably

00:21:36.240 repelling the wrong type of person as well. Yeah, it's been a struggle, man. We're living

00:21:43.200 in a crazy time. Political correctness is a cancer that I think is quite literally rotting the core of

00:21:50.820 our society from within. There is an expectation of people that everyone can kind of set the tone

00:21:56.960 for a company. You're talking about the employees can, is that what you're referring to?

00:22:01.480 Yeah, exactly. Everybody has a say. Well, that's not true. The majority has the say. That's how

00:22:08.520 democracies work actually. When you're living in a company, the CEO or the founder, whomever,

00:22:15.160 they decide what the culture in the company is going to look like and then the rest of the company

00:22:20.600 has to conform to that. Well, it's very difficult to break that through to people, especially in today's

00:22:26.880 society because they're offended over the shirt that you wear or the color of your socks. And

00:22:34.060 then somebody's talking about being triggered or something crazy. And you're like, dude,

00:22:39.080 maybe this isn't the greatest place for you to work.

00:22:41.800 Right, right. It's not going to be good for the business. And it's certainly not going to be

00:22:45.620 comfortable for you if you continue to work here.

00:22:47.860 No. And it's like, man, there's so many places to work in the United States

00:22:52.480 because this is the land of opportunity for the life of me. I can't figure out why people will

00:22:57.720 take jobs or they're like, they're unhappy. It doesn't make sense to me.

00:23:01.160 Yeah. I guess it's just chasing a paycheck or, or that's the best they think they can do. Maybe I

00:23:06.260 really don't know either. That's a, that's a good point.

00:23:08.640 I don't know. I mean, it's kind of like, and I know people do it all the time because they do need

00:23:12.940 to pay their rent and a few other things. But for me, companies are more than just about

00:23:18.080 profit. They have to be profitable. Don't get me wrong. Like companies have to be profitable,

00:23:22.740 but it's being able to walk out of your doors in the morning from the home that you love and the

00:23:29.900 family that you love and walk into the company that you love. Because now you have 24 hours a day,

00:23:35.760 seven days a week where you're encapsulated with happiness and or the environments that truly

00:23:42.520 fulfill you. If you do that, you win in life. Like you're the winner, dude. Winner, winner,

00:23:48.840 chicken dinner. You got it. For me, that's where defining the culture, recruiting the right people.

00:23:55.980 There's a great book. I think it was good to great or built to last. It might've been built to last

00:24:00.620 where get the wrong people off the bus and the right people on the bus, because it's a way better

00:24:06.520 trip. If you have that, but you have to be the master of your own 10 acres. When it comes to that,

00:24:12.880 you can't let the weeds grow up or they'll grow up and around and completely encapsulate you.

00:24:19.960 What was the expectation? I mean, when you were brewing coffee in your apartment and

00:24:23.600 just doing something you loved, you talked about these false expectations.

00:24:28.160 Did you have expectations or was it, Hey, I just like doing this and I'm going to do this a little bit

00:24:32.000 more. And then next week is a little more. And then next week, somebody wanted to buy something.

00:24:35.280 So I sold something. What did that actually look like for you?

00:24:38.220 Well, for me, I think my expectation was my wife had a coffee shop in Denver. I was working for

00:24:45.980 agency teaching advanced tactics like pistol carbine and a few other things. I wanted to

00:24:51.840 transition away. I was completely burnout, like not like beyond burnout to the point where I needed to

00:24:58.440 do something completely different. My expectation in coffee was I just wanted to roast coffee.

00:25:04.000 And give people something that I truly enjoyed. I didn't think of it as this is going to be the

00:25:10.900 company that I will run forever. This isn't the company that I would run to create hundreds of

00:25:17.180 jobs and millions of dollars. I thought of it as this is my part time job that I truly love.

00:25:22.940 My wife is into coffee. I'm into coffee. We can share something together. And then I can teach

00:25:28.900 myself how to become a businessman or proficient at business so I can feed my family outside of

00:25:35.360 carrying a rifle for a living. My expectation with this company from the beginning was to supplement

00:25:41.140 my income. I never saw it as something that would be my primary source of income. I'm just fortunate

00:25:47.540 enough to have grown the company to the point where it is my primary source of income. But as the company

00:25:54.560 increases in size, we're a long way away from me roasting coffee in my garage at this point.

00:26:00.720 Now, I have to become more proficient at leadership and management and task organization.

00:26:06.880 You know, these are the things that I've in some ways moved past. And now we're dealing with

00:26:12.900 the complexities of finance and a lot of other things out there that I didn't imagine four years

00:26:21.580 ago, four and a half years ago when I was roasting coffee one pound at a time on the back tailgate of

00:26:26.380 my truck at the range. Is that right? Is that where you started selling bags of coffee at the range?

00:26:32.860 Yeah. Yeah. I started giving them away actually. That's cool.

00:26:36.280 That's where Black Rifle Coffee Company, that's where the name came from.

00:26:39.000 Okay.

00:26:39.220 So I had a little one, I had a little one pound fluid bed coffee roaster on the back tailgate of my truck.

00:26:44.400 I was roasting coffee and teaching lines of fire. So I take this little one pound coffee roaster

00:26:49.940 and I could hook it up to my propane tank and plug it in. I'd be roasting coffee out there

00:26:55.160 and my service rifle was right next to my coffee roaster on my tailgate. One of the guys was like,

00:27:01.500 man, when are you going to start a coffee company? And I was like, I don't know.

00:27:04.620 And I made a joke about Black Rifle Coffee Company because my rifle was sitting right next to my

00:27:09.640 roaster. Matt, Bess and I were friends. We knew each other through a mutual friend. At that time,

00:27:15.680 they had Article 15 clothing. And I went to him and I was like, hey, you guys should do a coffee

00:27:20.340 and let me roast it.

00:27:22.340 Oh, so you wanted him to run like basic Article 15 to run it? Is that what you were thinking initially?

00:27:27.100 Yeah. I sold a few hundred pounds of coffee called Freedom Roast, Article 15 clothing. And that was the

00:27:33.680 first, I guess, big coffee run. I had roasted hundreds of pounds of coffee before that, but it was the

00:27:42.020 first account where it was like, oh, I have to roast a couple hundred pounds and have it

00:27:46.240 palletized and put on a truck and sent out to a fulfillment center. Before that-

00:27:50.500 And what were they going to do, run it out of their store or online stores? Is that what they

00:27:53.900 were going to do with it?

00:27:54.780 Running out of their online store. For the first year that I had Black Rifle Coffee Company,

00:27:58.860 it was my part-time job that I ran out of my garage. Jeff Kirkham and I had another company

00:28:04.620 called Ready Man. We were running Ready Man and I was roasting coffee in my garage.

00:28:09.420 So when did you then realize, all right, man, I'm onto something here. I've got to step away

00:28:15.460 from this business. I've got to go a little bit more, put more time, energy, money, resources,

00:28:20.360 capital. Was it Black Rifle Coffee at that point? Or was it, hey, we're just making coffee for Article 15?

00:28:27.460 Article 15 clothing sold through that coffee and it did relatively well. What I did was I thought,

00:28:34.920 well, I think there's a business here. And I came back to those guys a few months later and said,

00:28:41.260 hey, I'm going to start a coffee company. I'm going to call it Black Rifle Coffee Company.

00:28:45.520 You know, I got my start through you. If you guys ever want to be equity holders in the coffee

00:28:49.620 company, please let me know. But I'm going to start roasting coffee. You know, like, that's awesome,

00:28:54.220 man. Like, you know, and we were friends. So we were with each other every month anyway,

00:28:58.080 shooting videos and doing crazy shit. About a year later, we all got together and we're like, 0.55

00:29:04.420 man, this is actually, it's a good business. We should really concentrate on this. Probably a year,

00:29:09.200 year and a half later, I guess, I brought them in as equity holders. And that was the deal that we made

00:29:14.360 literally over a handshake and probably a couple of beers. And a year and a half later,

00:29:19.440 they were equity holders. And we said, let's just go both feet in and see if we can make this a

00:29:24.440 legitimate company that we can actually have an impact not only on hiring guys, but we can get

00:29:31.740 out of our part-time jobs and move into something that we can do full-time, transition away from all

00:29:38.000 the other shit that we were doing, and just concentrate on developing videos and roasting 0.53

00:29:42.900 coffee. So I was the coffee roaster. You know, I was the chief operating officer and the chief 0.98

00:29:48.800 marketing guy. And I mean, I did all of the work, but when they came on full-time, it was,

00:29:54.780 they concentrated a lot on that, on the content. Whereas I maintain more of the operational side of

00:29:59.940 things. Yeah. I was going to ask, is that where you felt like your strengths were and maybe even

00:30:04.820 your weaknesses and you had these guys come in because you recognized, you know, obviously Matt's

00:30:08.940 been doing a lot of video and you had these guys come in and handle that side because you didn't feel

00:30:12.880 like you had a grasp on it or was it just, Hey, we're friends and we can all do this together.

00:30:16.580 They're better at it. Like just bottom line, they were, they were way better at content than

00:30:22.140 I am. They still are. I have a mind for specific aspects of the company, which are sometimes their

00:30:29.100 content. We put out some of the content that is through ideation. We all come to the same

00:30:35.100 conclusion. That's really good. Some of that originates with me. Some of it originates with

00:30:39.080 Matt or JT, but they're better. Like Matt's probably one of the best editors, video editors.

00:30:44.680 Oh, so good. I just watched a instructor Earl. What'd you come out with that a couple of weeks

00:30:48.820 ago? I think it's so good, man. It's so good. And Matt, so the way that flowed was this,

00:30:56.160 which was, we were on a trip in Idaho. We were all together. So it was me, Matt, JT and Logan

00:31:02.120 Stark. And we went fishing in Idaho and then we went and met Joe Rogan. He had a show in Boise.

00:31:08.680 We were fishing and, and we were doing what we do, which is we make jokes. And it's just like a

00:31:15.360 constant state of humor when we're together. And we were laughing so fucking hard. We were driving in 0.96

00:31:23.700 this Canyon. We didn't have any cell coverage. And we started making this, making up this,

00:31:28.500 this character. And it wasn't for, it wasn't for a video. We were making, just having fun.

00:31:32.780 Yeah. We were just fucking around. And we started making these jokes, but we were crying. We were 0.98

00:31:37.240 laughing so hard. And for three hours, we were doing scenarios like instructor Earl scenarios.

00:31:43.480 Right. Cause you had like five or six scenarios that you went through or just, they were classic.

00:31:47.940 I mean, they're so funny.

00:31:49.720 But that was three hours of us making each other laugh. And then when we got back, we're like,

00:31:55.140 okay, we've got to film this because we couldn't even talk about it without crying, laughing.

00:31:59.980 We couldn't even talk about it. So we were like, we've got to film this. We think it's funny as

00:32:03.520 all. That's the way they're always formed. It's me and Matt and JT and Logan shooting bows in the

00:32:11.740 backyard of Matt's house or, you know, them at my house having a glass of whiskey. We're just making

00:32:19.200 each other laugh. And in the military, most people know that it's like, hurry up and wait.

00:32:25.100 Right. Yeah. You've got so much downtime to do. You got to find something to do.

00:32:29.980 Yeah. And most of the time we were all the guys. It's funny because we were talking about this

00:32:35.740 the other day. Each one of us is the guy from our unit that would make other people laugh in the

00:32:42.380 unit. Okay. So you guys didn't serve together. You had met each other afterwards.

00:32:46.600 Yeah. Because people, you know how, because people were like, you have to meet my friend

00:32:51.280 Matt because you guys are so crazy. You're going to get together and you guys are going to,

00:32:58.120 you guys are going to one, become best friends. And two, you're going to make something totally

00:33:02.360 out there. And JT was the same way. I think JT and I had talked first and we spent like two hours on

00:33:09.860 the phone the first time we ever talked. And we're just making each other laugh. We all realized a

00:33:15.180 few months later, we were talking about like, Hey, were you the guy in your unit that when there was

00:33:19.300 nothing else to do and you're like waiting to go for a, you know, waiting, waiting to go jump or

00:33:23.540 like sitting on the Humvees doing something, were you the guys like, yeah, every one of us. So it

00:33:29.660 literally, you could say that each one of us was somewhat of a class clown of our unit. And now we're

00:33:35.360 all together at this company and we still just make each other laugh. Like literally our best days in

00:33:41.860 the office are the days where we can carve out time and we still make each other laugh to the point

00:33:50.320 where we probably bend over and cry laughing once a week, I would imagine. But this is what's so cool

00:33:57.180 about business, especially in this climate, in this environment is that you can find guys that you

00:34:01.840 resonate with and do stuff that actually fulfills you. You can have fun, you can laugh and have all of

00:34:06.340 that stuff that enriches your life. And you can be extremely profitable, which you guys have been.

00:34:11.860 And it goes back to what we were saying earlier, you know, why are people doing stuff that they

00:34:15.560 just, they're miserable with and they hate if this isn't a great story of how to take something that

00:34:21.340 you enjoy and turn it into something that's extremely lucrative and fun. I don't know what is.

00:34:26.660 Yeah. You know, I would say the first three years of this business, you couldn't classify it as

00:34:31.720 extremely lucrative. We didn't make enough money to pay ourselves. And, you know, we were rolling

00:34:36.920 everything that we could back into the company because we wanted to build something where

00:34:41.780 we could just, it sounds kind of weird, but we just carve that out and hang out together.

00:34:47.820 Was there a time, let me interrupt you real quick. Cause I want to ask, was there a time where

00:34:51.140 you guys thought, you know what, let's just throw in the towel. Like this is not working. Or maybe

00:34:55.560 one of you were like that. And then the rest of you talked to each other off the ledge. What did that

00:34:59.880 look like? Or did you always say, no, we're good. Keep going. Keep going. All of you.

00:35:03.360 Yeah. All of us. We're all, we've always been the guys that are like, Hey, let's keep going.

00:35:08.600 I think just recently we've got to the point with a company where we're like, Oh, this is going to be

00:35:13.040 around for a while. And we're, we're going to be okay. You know, we're going to be able to pay our

00:35:18.700 mortgages. And that's not been too long, like six months. Oh really? That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Man.

00:35:24.740 We like, we ran this entire thing on a shoestring, you know, with no debt, rolling all our profits

00:35:30.580 back into the company. It was a fucking dogfight, you know, to try to, to try to do that every day, 0.98

00:35:36.800 year after year. And, you know, search through your couch for enough change to pay your mortgage, 0.99

00:35:42.300 you know, your significant others, or you guys are crazy. Like, what are you guys doing? You're

00:35:47.220 driving us into the, you know, the house of poverty and guys will say, well, you guys have made

00:35:51.720 millions of dollars. And it's like, well, no, the company has, yeah, the company has,

00:35:56.380 and the company also has, you know, 42,000 square foot building in Salt Lake and another 50,000 square

00:36:02.200 feet in Nashville. And they have, you know, two roasters and, you know, a multi-node fulfillment

00:36:06.920 center and a hundred and some employer, 111 employees. That stuff costs money. And to grow a

00:36:13.960 company, you have to find the capital and that capital has to either come from profit. It has to come

00:36:20.080 out of your pocket or you have to find somebody else to give you it. You don't like go and dig

00:36:24.140 it out of the ground. It doesn't happen that way. So we were internally financing our growth and we

00:36:29.700 were growing. We grew, or from first year to our second year, we grew 8.7 X. That growth capital has

00:36:37.980 to come from somewhere. It all came from our profits and all came out of our pockets. Don't get me wrong.

00:36:42.960 I'm not lamenting or complaining. I'm saying like that. This is what it takes. Yeah, it takes. And you

00:36:47.860 got to starve. I always tell guys, it's like, are you prepared to work 20 hours a day and wonder where

00:36:55.880 your mortgage payment's going to come from for years? Are you prepared for that? And then if the

00:37:01.260 answer is yes, then I say, you might be able to make it. Yeah. You may be able to do something with

00:37:06.900 that. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Because the depths of disparity in the company, I never had any doubt

00:37:13.600 that we could make it work, but it is, and I've done some stressful things in my life that would

00:37:19.340 probably make other people go into immediate cardiac arrest, but that it is the single most stressful

00:37:25.680 act I have ever gone through in my life. And you don't sleep, you know, you eat like shit half the 0.99

00:37:33.380 time. You're, you're riding a computer and, you know, counseling people. And it's a nonstop level of 0.99

00:37:40.920 stress that I don't think people, they have no idea what it feels like to be in a pressure cooker

00:37:48.620 like this for years. I've told this to, I don't know how many people I'm like, I have gone into

00:37:55.100 literally been driving into a gunfight with less stress at times than this company.

00:38:01.420 I think a lot of people just write it off as luck. I think it'd be really easy for anybody looking in

00:38:06.900 to look at your website and look at what you're doing and look at the type of people you're connected

00:38:10.660 with and the type of revenue the business is doing and say, Oh, these guys are lucky because

00:38:14.420 fill in the blank. And they just fail to see whether it's through willful ignorance or just

00:38:20.560 oblivion that there's so much more that goes into this. Yeah. There's maybe a little bit of luck

00:38:26.420 there. There's fortune for sure. I mean, obviously you're going to be in the right place at the right

00:38:31.360 time and some certain things are going to fall into place. But if you're not prepared for that,

00:38:34.740 none of that's going to even matter. Well, and you have to have the stomach for it.

00:38:38.700 Not everybody is cut out for this. Not everybody's cut out to be a Green Beret. Not everybody's cut 0.70

00:38:43.620 out to be a Navy SEAL. Not everybody has cut out for this. And this is different than just,

00:38:48.820 and I'm not devaluing it. This is different than owning a small business. This is scaling a company

00:38:54.820 to enterprise value on a national scale and doing that in four and a half years. I'm sure Gary Vee did

00:39:04.160 amazing things, but he has no idea the difference between what he did and what we've done.

00:39:10.140 There is a drastic difference, a drastic difference just in gross revenue, amount of reach per week.

00:39:15.940 And I'm not devaluing him. I'm just saying that. No, of course there's different models for sure.

00:39:20.840 Yeah. Gary Vee did amazing things with his company. He hasn't come close to what we've done

00:39:25.360 in four and a half years. And once again, I'm not trying to brag. I'm saying like we've done something

00:39:30.180 so few companies have been able to do and we've done it in such a condensed time frame just based

00:39:38.300 out of like sheer hard work determination and being able to look into the literally the abyss of fear

00:39:46.800 and go, okay, let's do it. I didn't have outside investors. A lot of guys, it's so funny. People

00:39:53.620 are like, oh, you, you, you had outside investors and stuff. I'm like, I didn't. I invested $1,800 of

00:39:58.380 my own money. I made $1.3 million in gross revenue. My first year as a part-time job with Black Rifle,

00:40:08.040 I worked no less than 20 hours a day. Some days I would work 30 some hours in a row. I had a

00:40:15.660 Therm-a-Rest below my desk next to the roaster. That year I paid myself $16,000.

00:40:24.160 Really? Out of the 1.3 in revenue? Wow.

00:40:28.640 Yes. The revenue and the growth, if I robbed a penny from the growth, I was robbing the growth

00:40:37.300 of my company. The least amount of money that I could afford. And I used to think I didn't take

00:40:42.020 any money out of it. And it wasn't until I went back and, and looked and I actually loaned myself

00:40:47.920 money from the company to pay my rent. Did you pay that back into the company?

00:40:53.960 I did.

00:40:56.340 Men, we've got some exciting announcements inside the Iron Council, including a new membership site

00:41:01.000 and onboarding system to get you up and running with this powerful brotherhood as quickly as we

00:41:05.960 possibly can. Uh, if you're not familiar with what the Iron Council is, it is exactly what it sounds

00:41:10.940 like. It's a council of men banding together to sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron.

00:41:16.360 The men inside of the council are rekindling relationships. They're forging bonds with their

00:41:20.640 kids. They're securing promotions. They're losing weight, generally just leveling up in every facet of

00:41:25.260 their life. So if you're ready to do the same, if you want to step up, you've got some big goals for

00:41:29.760 the fourth quarter of this year, 2018, then we invite you to join the Iron Council, head to

00:41:35.560 order of man.com slash iron council. Again, if you want to learn more and lock in your seat,

00:41:40.100 order of man.com slash iron council. In the meantime, we'll get back to this conversation with

00:41:44.700 Evan. My first year, I technically didn't make any money and people are like, your company made $1.3

00:41:53.360 million. Yeah. My company made $1.3 million. I drove this same car. I sold two houses. I had a

00:42:01.820 house in Denver that my wife owned. I had a house in Seattle that I owned. We sold two homes. I had

00:42:07.760 over $30,000 in credit card debt, which I had leveraged to buy inventory. And I didn't pay myself.

00:42:13.840 Basically, I didn't pay myself a dime because I'd loaned it and then I had to pay the money back the

00:42:18.140 next year. You know, thank God for Jeff Kirkham because Jeff Kirkham had been able to squirrel enough

00:42:23.120 money away where he actually loaned me some money too, because I was starving. My first year was

00:42:29.700 20 hours a day, nonstop customer service, roasting, bagging, packaging, grinding. And then I would go

00:42:37.960 to my day job. I would work in my day job, but my other day job was another company that Jeff and I

00:42:43.240 owned. So how does somebody know then if they're cut out for this? Is it, you have an ability to put

00:42:48.480 up with that and deal with that for a time longer than most, most humans will? Or is there other

00:42:54.240 factors at play here that somebody might say, okay, I'm cut out for this or I'm not?

00:42:59.660 Yeah. I think part of being an entrepreneur and I'm not the brightest guy in the, in the room by any

00:43:04.900 stretch of the imagination. Uh, you know, I'm the guy that went to college and didn't realize that you

00:43:08.820 could take college loans and just worked up, worked my ass off on the farm, not out of ego, 1.00

00:43:13.200 just out of stupidity. You know, I think a lot of guys, they don't necessarily know if they're cut 0.99

00:43:20.600 out to do it. But what I've always known is I know the depth on which I can endure. And that's a lot

00:43:28.760 of guys don't understand that because they haven't been to the deepest, darkest corners of their own

00:43:34.720 mind to understand how difficult things can be. Whereas this company never jeopardized my life,

00:43:41.420 limb or eyesight. This company wasn't going to plan an IED and blow my legs off or kill my friend.

00:43:47.020 I wasn't going to carry this, this company home in a casket and watch their wives cry and their kids

00:43:53.420 go without a father. The company never scared me in running. The company never scared me like looking

00:44:00.840 my friend's wives in the eyes and knowing that they're never going to see their husband ever again 0.96

00:44:05.680 and their children aren't going to see their father. My company has always been a joke compared to

00:44:10.520 that. So for me, it's serious business. It's very serious business. But it's never going to scare

00:44:18.520 me as much as that. And so I knew I had been to the depths of my insecurities. I knew whether or not

00:44:28.360 I was a man of metal and whether or not I could endure a significant amount of pain and hardship.

00:44:34.960 So I could lean my ladder against the fact I can do much more. I can go without sleep. I can go

00:44:42.140 without food. I can tighten my belt. I can sell my shit. But you know what I can't live without?

00:44:49.120 Freedom. I needed to own my own business because I wanted to own my life. That is the single most

00:44:56.960 effective driving force I will ever have in my life outside of my wife and two kids.

00:45:02.960 I was buying and learning my own freedom. I never wanted to work for the government again.

00:45:08.460 And I would do literally anything and everything I could do within my power and obviously ethical

00:45:16.140 left and right to buy my freedom through knowledge, which meant I had to put myself through

00:45:23.560 the ultimate grinder and ultimately learn how to survive outside of the government. I had to be

00:45:32.920 able to feed myself. Not everybody's going to know that about themselves going into it. The company is

00:45:38.760 not going to put me in my hope. It's not going to put me in the ground. And you know, the single most

00:45:43.780 valuable thing that I have is my relationship with my kids and my my business partner. Well, my kids,

00:45:50.740 my wife, my business partners. Outside of that, the money that the company generates or the profit

00:45:56.640 the company generates, it's irrelevant. And when I say it's relevant to the success and being able to

00:46:03.120 define the company's success, the real success of the company is the fact that I get to run it

00:46:09.000 with great people and go home to a family that I love. I get to do that. The government's not calling

00:46:15.000 me and telling me that I have to be, you know, in Syria with an M4 in two weeks. I'm going to be

00:46:20.300 there for 90 days and I'm going to be managed by a person that might or might not have the best

00:46:26.260 interest of me and my family at heart. Yeah. No, it makes total sense. You know,

00:46:30.280 and the other beauty of this too, is that for whatever reason, and people have asked me, you know,

00:46:34.220 what if order of man goes under, what would you do if order of man fell apart? I'm like order of man

00:46:38.920 2.0. You can't take away those skills. You know, you might be able to take away the business.

00:46:44.100 The landscape might change a little bit, but there's certain skills that I've developed through

00:46:48.340 running this business and you have as well through running yours that can't ever be stripped away

00:46:52.380 from you. And that's powerful because you have that autonomy like you're talking about.

00:46:56.760 And I talk about all that all the time, which we've developed certain amount of skills that

00:47:01.220 they can't take those things away. Black grateful coffee will be around for decades at this point.

00:47:06.840 It's not going anywhere, but it's interesting now because now I have a tangible skill that

00:47:12.600 ultimately you can, you know, pack up your bags. And, you know, if I decided to move on from the CEO

00:47:18.600 to do something else, I would still be doing business. I wouldn't go back to doing something

00:47:25.020 else. I would still be in business because I truly do love it too. Like now I'm, I would say I'm

00:47:31.640 probably a more successful businessman than I ever was an SF guy. I've redefined myself

00:47:37.440 rightfully so, because I think that I've put in the correct amount of hours and ultimately the

00:47:41.780 amount of sacrifice that it needs to redefine myself as a businessman.

00:47:46.980 And I think it's really good. We talk about this too, because there's a lot of guys out there and

00:47:51.080 gals, veterans who have wrapped themselves so heavily in their previous identity. And they don't

00:47:57.140 even realize how translatable a lot of those skills are when they come out into the civilian side of

00:48:02.100 things and want to run organizations or work for businesses. They don't even see the value they

00:48:06.500 provide. And you're talking a lot about what you learned through your time in the military and how

00:48:11.720 translatable it is over here. But you guys are doing something pretty cool that I thought, which is

00:48:15.440 you've donated quite a bit of money to help some of these entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs

00:48:21.540 go from military service to becoming an entrepreneur. Tell us a little bit about that.

00:48:27.540 For me, the company and the profit of the company always has to be turned into something good.

00:48:33.060 I believe in veteran entrepreneurship. I believe that the veterans should be starting businesses.

00:48:39.780 They should be, and I talk about this a lot where I want veterans to emancipate themselves from

00:48:44.880 government service and transition into a life of fulfillment through owning their own business.

00:48:50.740 I think that we're an incredible force multiplier. I think that we will continue to hire at much

00:48:56.640 higher rate other veterans. So for me, I look at things very simplistic. If I create more veteran

00:49:03.420 entrepreneurs and businessmen, they're going to create more veteran opportunities for employment.

00:49:08.760 So we'll be able to hire our brothers and sisters that have deployed and literally been carrying a

00:49:14.240 rucksack for the nation for a long period of time. And we are going to set a new bar for success.

00:49:20.740 within the company, I think, as far as business. And then through business, I think people are going

00:49:27.440 to become more involved in their communities in order to apply the correct amount of influence within

00:49:32.460 their communities, meaning their cities and their counties. Business is an incredibly impactful way

00:49:39.300 to be part of your community. I think veterans are naturally inclined to do it. I think that

00:49:46.460 they will be very successful, but they really have to get through the initial phases of

00:49:52.860 I'm transitioning through the military, take all my skills, learn something new.

00:49:59.020 You know, one of the initiatives that we've done is we started the Launch Code podcast,

00:50:03.780 which is it's a veteran entrepreneur podcast for the most part.

00:50:07.240 It's just our life and trials and tribulations and business, which I hope that's not a shameless plug

00:50:12.740 for my podcast either. No, that's why we're here, man. I'll make sure to share that because

00:50:16.740 I've listened to that as well. Oh, cool. Thanks, man. And then through

00:50:20.200 Pentagon Federal Credit Union, we teamed up with them and we've allocated half a million dollars to

00:50:24.960 veteran businesses, startups and entrepreneurs. $200,000 of that is from Black Rifle Coffee.

00:50:31.420 I've just been fortunate enough to be in this position where I can do that. I can say,

00:50:36.460 I think this is really important. Let's fund these initiatives. And I think that money will go

00:50:42.400 much further to a cause that I truly believe in, which is decreasing veteran unemployment.

00:50:49.600 And we have to increase the happiness level of veterans. They have to be more fulfilled.

00:50:54.520 They have to have a mission. They have to be more fulfilled. They have to be professionally fulfilled.

00:50:59.340 And I think we're going to do that through starting more businesses. Never in the time of U.S.

00:51:03.780 history. Veterans started more businesses than post-World War II. Veterans statistically have a

00:51:11.160 much higher rate of success, meaning businesses that don't collapse. I think that we're on the

00:51:17.120 precipice of seeing a big explosion of veteran entrepreneurs and businessmen. And I want to be

00:51:23.060 as helpful and impactful as I can when it comes to that. Man, I got to tell you, I appreciate the

00:51:27.980 work that you've been doing. I mean, I've been following you guys for long enough that even outside of

00:51:31.820 this initiative with the credit union is I've seen what you guys are doing for the veteran community.

00:51:37.020 And I got to tell you, it's really inspiring and pretty powerful to see as well. Let me ask you a

00:51:42.040 couple of questions, man, as we wind down. The first one I prepared you for a little bit is what

00:51:46.160 does it mean to be a man? Well, I think you first have to have a male genitalia. I think that would 1.00

00:51:52.360 probably... That's the first qualifier. Absolutely.

00:51:55.660 My father taught me this a long time ago, which is your word is your bond. Being a man is about

00:52:04.240 saying what is on your mind, being truthful, and then following your words with action.

00:52:11.640 When you tell somebody you're going to do something, it's going to get done. And it's

00:52:16.460 going to be on time, on target, and it's going to be above standard. A man has to live by an ethical 0.94

00:52:22.720 code. And that can come from the Bible. It can come from your family values. It can come from

00:52:29.420 philosophy. But ultimately, you really do have to live by an ethical code. You have to propagate that,

00:52:38.180 at least tell people what that is. And you have to speak your mind. You have to be as candid as

00:52:44.180 possible. And you have to follow your mind with action because ideas are a plenty and they're quite

00:52:50.980 literally useless without action. So for me, my word is my bond. When I talk to people, I try to

00:52:58.880 do exactly what I tell them. They try to be as truthful and transparent as I can, regardless of

00:53:04.800 the outcome. And then I follow my words with action because words are irrelevant unless you put some

00:53:10.840 substance to them. For me, being a man, I am what I feel is the provider and the protector of my family

00:53:19.040 too. Probably my most important charter as a man is to be the guy that ultimately provides for my

00:53:27.560 family, but not just provides the basics, but provides them the structure to thrive. When I say

00:53:34.760 I want good children, I want great children that can move past me and survive and succeed in a very

00:53:42.920 complex society. So I've got two little girls at home. One of the most important things that I do

00:53:50.680 as a man is being a father. You know, responsibilities, I think is, you know, being responsible,

00:53:57.200 being truthful or having candor, being radically transparent. Being a man of love is incredibly

00:54:03.760 important. Without passion, without emotion, I think you're just a robot. So those are the things

00:54:10.280 that I think that are important in being a man. Man, I love it. I agree with all of that stuff.

00:54:14.340 And I know a lot of guys do too. So how do we connect with you? Obviously we've got the,

00:54:17.780 you had mentioned it a minute ago, the Launch Code podcast. We'll link that up.

00:54:21.120 Where else should we go to connect with you, learn more about what you're doing and pick up some

00:54:24.660 products? Evan Hafer. So E-V-A-N-H-A-F-E-R on Instagram. My company is Black Rifle Coffee on Instagram,

00:54:33.160 blackriflecoffee.com. We've got Launch Code. That's one of our podcasts. We've also got Drinking Bros,

00:54:38.640 which is just us talking shit for an hour, quite literally, just literally try to make each other 0.98

00:54:43.620 laugh for an hour. So you can find me in those places and you can DM me on Instagram or hit me 0.98

00:54:48.720 up on LinkedIn. Depending on the week that I'm in, it might take me a minute to get back to you, but

00:54:53.540 for sure I get back to about everybody. Right on, man. We'll link it all up. I just

00:54:57.740 want to tell you again, I appreciate you and how you guys show up. I've admired you guys and what

00:55:01.580 you've done specifically and Matt and JT, all the guys, Jeff, and then the company as well. And I've

00:55:06.440 certainly tried to take and emulate a little bit about what you've done in my own organization and

00:55:11.040 it's been helpful. Whether you realize it or not, it's been helpful in allowing me to grow this to

00:55:15.140 something that I have some autonomy and some control over. So I really appreciate the insight

00:55:19.880 and you taking some time to spend with us today, man. Thanks. Dude, thanks for having me. I

00:55:24.300 definitely appreciate it. Your beard is much to be desired and order a man's doing some fucking cool 0.97

00:55:29.340 stuff, man. I appreciate it. I think one of the first videos I saw with you and Matt was, 0.97

00:55:33.340 if I remember right, it was something like, you don't have to have a beard to be a man. And I

00:55:37.720 think, and I think that that was you in that video, right? Cause that was like one of the very

00:55:41.580 first videos that I watched. And so it's pretty good video. And that's super funny, man. I,

00:55:47.380 we were like flying in a helicopter and it's been my pleasure. I truly do thank you for what you're

00:55:55.080 doing for the community. Cause I think you're doing a ton of great work. People need guys that are out

00:56:00.460 there actioning. They need the executioners of this piece and they definitely need the guys that

00:56:06.080 are, that are beating the drum and inspiring people every day. So it's important work, man.

00:56:11.200 And I thank you for being part of that. Gentlemen, there it is such a powerful conversation with my

00:56:17.000 friend, Evan Hafer. I hope you enjoyed this one. If you're looking to grow a business or you have a

00:56:21.700 project on the side that you're doing, I hope, and I barely confident that you walked away with a lot

00:56:27.640 of valuable, valuable information regarding how to build a business and how to turn something that

00:56:33.240 is a passion of yours into something that will lead to profits, which of course will be the

00:56:38.900 lifeline for you to continue to do that thing in a more meaningful and significant way. So guys,

00:56:42.980 go connect with Evan, go connect with Black Rifle Coffee, connect with me on Instagram, Facebook,

00:56:48.080 Twitter, wherever you're doing the social media thing. And let us know what you thought of the show.

00:56:52.020 Give us some feedback, reach out to Evan, tell him what you thought, reach out to me,

00:56:54.840 tell me what you thought. And all of that, all of that feedback goes a long way in helping me to

00:57:00.440 continue to bring on not only great guests, but also to get better, just get better at having

00:57:07.080 these conversations and knowing exactly how they're going to serve you best. So guys, if you are going

00:57:11.920 to connect with me, do that on Instagram at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M-I-C-H-L-E-R or on

00:57:18.680 Facebook, on Twitter, on YouTube at orderofman.com. Leave us a rating review on iTunes,

00:57:24.580 wherever you are, we're there, connect with us. I want to hear from you. And as I cap this thing

00:57:29.860 off, just like I do every single week, we'll end this with a thank you. Thank you for being on this

00:57:33.700 journey with me. Thank you for inspiring me. Thank you for leading and uplifting in your families,

00:57:39.180 in your businesses, in your communities. I am inspired each and every day by what it is you

00:57:43.140 are doing as a man. And I could not do this without you. So gentlemen, until tomorrow for our

00:57:48.080 Ask Me Anything, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:57:54.580 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life

00:57:59.360 and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 09, 2018

Purpose, Passion, and Profit ｜ EVAN HAFER

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