Order of Man - Recapping the Best Moments of 2024

00:00:00.480 2024 has officially drawn to a close, and with all the incredible conversations I've had over the past 12 months,

00:00:07.480 I thought it might be a good idea to recap some of the best moments from a dozen of the over 52 interviews that I did in 2024.

00:00:16.900 And all of this is in one simple and easy place today to hit all the highlights that you may have missed or you may want to catch again. Enjoy it.

00:00:26.420 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:32.540 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:36.960 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:41.800 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:46.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:51.240 Man, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. If you're brand new to the show, welcome here.

00:00:58.780 This is probably a pretty good one to start if you're just joining us because I'm going to recap some of the best moments from 2024

00:01:05.780 with some of our favorite guests, our most downloaded guests.

00:01:10.400 And if you've been with us for any amount of time, maybe you've been listening to the podcast forever,

00:01:13.900 this is going to be a good recap for you on some of those moments and hopefully give you some fuel and some fire

00:01:21.780 for what you want to accomplish in 2025.

00:01:24.800 So just real quick, we're going to talk with Bedros Koulian.

00:01:27.880 Adversity introduces a man to himself, talking about overcoming trauma and emotional and mental abuse.

00:01:33.980 Kyle Thompson on how to have disagreements with others while staying calm.

00:01:38.220 David Walde, the importance of honesty and communicating true intentions.

00:01:42.200 Jefferson Fisher, which was one of my personal favorites, how to start a difficult conversation directly.

00:01:48.560 Also from Dave Fielding, the importance of being true to yourself and avoiding arrogance.

00:01:53.620 We also hear from Harrison Shank, the proper use of masculine tools or the need to be authentic.

00:02:00.560 And G.S. Youngblood, another personal favorite of mine.

00:02:03.380 We talk about the differences between reacting and responding and how to take some time and in the moment to reflect

00:02:09.880 before you say or do something dumb.

00:02:11.560 Nick Freitas, the need to convince each other of the best course of action.

00:02:15.980 Clint Emerson, the potential for civil war and how to prepare.

00:02:19.520 We had a good conversation with him after the attempted assassination on Trump.

00:02:23.820 The first one, that is.

00:02:25.180 Also, John Deloney, that one is a huge, huge fan favorite.

00:02:28.820 The value of saying, I don't know.

00:02:30.880 We talk a lot about men's health in that one.

00:02:33.240 Sophia Sam on overcoming porn.

00:02:36.460 How to distinguish trauma from other experiences and the need to avoid labels.

00:02:40.840 And last, we talk with Jackson Hightower, the need for men to be assertive in expressing their needs

00:02:46.880 and how to create a safe environment for open communication.

00:02:51.100 Here you go, guys.

00:02:51.840 You are one of the few people who stood by me and supported me and believed in me when I was going through all the bullshit I was going through a year and a half ago.

00:03:05.780 And I want to start this conversation off by saying, I appreciate that.

00:03:09.620 That means a lot.

00:03:10.380 You didn't have to do that, but you did it anyways.

00:03:12.660 And that means a lot to me, more than you might know.

00:03:15.800 Well, first off, that means a lot that you're acknowledging it.

00:03:19.400 And I think as friends, as brothers, it's not what we do or say publicly.

00:03:23.660 It's how we support each other privately.

00:03:26.120 And I know you would have been there for me in a similar situation.

00:03:29.440 And it's just the least I could do for someone who's a friend and a brother.

00:03:33.800 Yeah.

00:03:34.200 Like I said, that means a lot.

00:03:35.640 I wanted to kick this conversation off.

00:03:37.520 I've seen some things on social media over the past several weeks.

00:03:40.900 Steve, who is obviously, you know, he's within your organization.

00:03:45.180 He's somebody I know very well.

00:03:47.080 He's such an interesting personality.

00:03:48.880 He's such a hard ass.

00:03:50.120 But I think deep down inside, he really cares about people.

00:03:53.080 But there's been some viral stuff going on about what you guys are doing with men and how you're training men and how you're leading them and calling them up.

00:04:02.360 And there's a lot of controversy around that.

00:04:04.660 Would you mind explaining that?

00:04:06.800 Yeah.

00:04:07.020 Yeah.

00:04:07.160 Yeah.

00:04:07.400 So, as you know, a couple of weeks ago, we had our 19th class of the project, the Modern Day Night Project.

00:04:14.420 And for anyone who doesn't know what the project is, it's a 75-hour straight experience for men who are – and some of these men are former military.

00:04:23.500 Some are first responders.

00:04:25.100 Some are entrepreneurs.

00:04:26.880 Some are people that are executives in companies.

00:04:29.900 And so, what they have in common is they're men and they lost their sense of or have never discovered their sense of meaning, purpose, and team.

00:04:40.060 And as you know, when a man doesn't have a sense of meaning, purpose, and team, he is going to start drifting in life.

00:04:46.720 And that's where the vices and escapes typically come in, whether it's infidelity, pornography, alcohol, drugs, you name it, gambling.

00:05:26.280 In their finances, in their finances, in their health and fitness, in their mental and emotional fitness.

00:05:30.820 And so, anyway, we ran the project.

00:05:33.440 And as you know, if you want things to go viral, you want to take your iPhone and take the most sensational clips of a 75-hour experience.

00:05:44.060 And so, in total, during the 75 hours – it starts at Tuesday at 1 p.m., goes until Friday at 5 p.m.

00:05:50.760 In total, we probably put up about 16 minutes of content on our social media stories from a 75-hour experience.

00:05:59.820 And the content we put up is Steve mostly dragging these guys around by their rucksacks.

00:06:06.060 It's Steve where he takes the K-bar – you know, Steve's a Marine.

00:06:09.420 And he takes the K-bar out of his side and he goes, if any one of you who don't belong at the graduation dinner think you're going to make it somehow to the graduation dinner on Friday.

00:06:21.600 And we all have this project tattoo, us instructors.

00:06:24.300 And actually, half the graduates now have this tattoo on their hand or body somewhere because it's so meaningful to us.

00:06:30.580 Steve goes, I will take this effing knife and I'll carve this tattoo off my hand.

00:06:34.960 And so, of course, I know he's going to do that.

00:06:37.480 He does that for every class.

00:06:38.880 When I say, hey, guys, now I'm going to introduce my instructors, it always goes to the Navy SEAL, the K-marine, Nick, and then Steve.

00:06:47.200 So I conveniently bring up my iPhone and just start recording and, you know, kind of show the expression of all the candidates going through it.

00:06:55.140 So to us, it's standard practice.

00:06:56.980 We want to immediately show them that now we've got dominance over you, that you are now ours for the next 75 hours.

00:07:03.240 We're going to control your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings.

00:07:05.400 We're going to trigger you.

00:07:06.460 And we want to see how they react or respond.

00:07:10.160 Obviously, when a man responds to a situation, he's thought it through.

00:07:13.420 If they react, it's from a place of emotion and feelings.

00:07:17.600 Typically, when a fist goes through a wall in front of your wife and she's scared or your kids see that, that's a reaction, an emotional reaction.

00:07:24.860 And then we will stop those moments and go, hey, where else is it showing up in your life?

00:07:28.260 So the project, the entire 75 hours is a metaphor for life.

00:07:31.720 But, of course, those clips in my stories and on the MDK project stories went viral.

00:07:38.160 First, Fox News picked it up.

00:07:39.960 And then Barstool Sports picked it up.

00:07:42.200 And then some big content creators on YouTube, like a big – I think there's one called the Angry Cop or Angry Officer or whatever his account is.

00:07:51.800 Seems like a real – yeah, really solid guy.

00:07:54.320 Seems like a solid guy.

00:07:55.780 But what's funny is Fox News, Barstool Sports, the Angry Cop.

00:08:01.100 There's another big like 7 million subscriber account on YouTube.

00:08:04.820 Cool dude with long hair.

00:08:06.120 Funny as heck, man.

00:08:07.100 I love his videos.

00:08:07.840 The first time he made a video on us, he goes, look at these guys.

00:08:11.220 They're running a Navy SEAL Buds program in the back of a Walmart, which is actually not true.

00:08:16.000 It's my compound in my gym that you've been to.

00:08:19.340 But I get it.

00:08:20.420 I get it.

00:08:21.040 But they're literally taking clips that we have intentionally taken out of proportion and put out there.

00:08:29.200 What they don't see is the journaling.

00:08:30.800 They don't see the deep work of talking about the traumas that these men have gone through.

00:08:35.740 They don't see the conversations and will never record the conversations of these men talking about sitting in their car with the pistol in their lap ready to blow their brains out.

00:08:44.180 Or one gentleman two classes ago said, I found myself at 1 in the morning sitting at a park by my house with the pistol in my hand wondering what the fastest way it is to kill myself.

00:08:56.180 These are the guys that come to the project, and I say to you, man, they come from former military, first responders.

00:09:03.720 We've had guys that have been congressmen and senators from Mexico to America, men from every walk of life.

00:09:12.420 And it's not like they're looking for a beatdown.

00:09:14.700 They understand that they are about to go through a rebirth and a complete cleansing, emotional purging, and an opportunity to connect with the brotherhood.

00:09:23.580 But nevertheless, social media does what it does best, and Fox News, Barstool Sports, and a few content creators picked it up and really shit on us, which I don't mind because I know the work we do.

00:09:36.300 I hear from the men after the project, and certainly not every guy graduates.

00:09:41.340 Some get injured and have to medically roll to the next class, and others decide this is not for them, and they could, at free will, ring the bell and quit any time they want.

00:09:51.140 But we did get a lot of negative press, but I'm okay with that because none of that is going to stop me from the mission that we're on, which is serving men and helping them rise to their higher potential and purpose in life.

00:10:03.240 And, you know, oftentimes we'll hear on social media, why are you paying $18,000 for the 75-hour course?

00:10:11.160 You know, you can go to the Marine Corps, and they'll pay you to go through a boot camp-type experience.

00:10:16.060 Well, again, all they see is 16, 17 minutes out of 75 hours.

00:10:20.580 They don't see where we're coaching them on their relationships with their kids, with their spouses.

00:10:26.000 They don't see where we're referring them to therapists who can help them overcome sexual trauma that they've experienced or physical trauma that they've experienced or limiting beliefs.

00:10:35.800 They don't see where we're coaching them on their business to help them, you know, 5X and 10X their business over the next few years.

00:10:41.360 And I don't know.

00:10:42.420 I've never been a Marine.

00:10:43.400 I'm a civilian.

00:10:44.120 I've never been in the military.

00:10:45.680 But I don't think they teach entrepreneurship, how to deal with relationships, and any of those things, how to deal with trauma.

00:10:53.740 And so those are the things that we work with, and I'm massively proud of the work we do.

00:10:58.280 But it is very misunderstood.

00:11:04.300 Roughly a month ago, I get an email from our credit card processor that says, you know, we're deleting your account.

00:11:09.400 You have 30 days to find a new processor.

00:11:11.560 So I'm in the middle of like – I have like 10 meetings that day or something like that.

00:11:15.280 And so I'm like, this is nonsense.

00:11:16.620 This had to have been some sort of AI-generated thing or maybe some low-level staffer made a mistake.

00:11:21.200 So I just email back and say, hey, I think there was some sort of mistake.

00:11:24.480 You know, nothing has changed in terms of how we process.

00:11:26.940 Nothing in our business has changed.

00:11:28.400 And they're like, no, no, this is for real.

00:11:31.380 And so I put in a, you know, a review.

00:11:33.800 Like, hey, let's get a review.

00:11:35.220 It's rejected, Ryan.

00:11:36.420 And if you've ever experienced this on YouTube, you get the rejection letter in less time than it takes

00:11:40.800 to somebody to actually review the video, right?

00:11:43.300 So it was like that type of rejection.

00:11:45.180 And so they're like, well, you violated our terms of service.

00:11:47.500 I was like, okay, tell me what – where in the terms of service we violated.

00:11:51.660 They wouldn't tell us.

00:11:52.640 They just kept sending us a link to the terms of service.

00:11:54.760 I'm like, got it.

00:11:55.780 Got the link.

00:11:56.460 I got it in the last two emails.

00:11:58.180 What line?

00:11:59.020 What page are you on?

00:12:01.020 And what did we violate specifically?

00:12:02.840 And they wouldn't tell us.

00:12:03.660 I was like, hey, I just need to get on the phone with somebody.

00:12:06.000 I think there's got to be some sort of mistake that that's happened.

00:12:08.820 Let me just get on the phone with somebody.

00:12:09.880 They refused.

00:12:10.680 They would not get on the phone.

00:12:11.700 They're like, we've done your review.

00:12:14.020 It's been manually reviewed.

00:12:15.660 And the decision stands.

00:12:17.840 And so I'm trying to get something out of these emails back and forth, Ryan.

00:12:21.040 And basically the last email they sent me was, look, we think you need to be with a company

00:12:25.820 that's more aligned with you, that, you know, shares your values,

00:12:29.020 and we'll help you and your company grow and blah, blah, blah.

00:12:31.060 And I was like, oh, okay.

00:12:34.160 Now it makes a whole lot more sense.

00:12:36.280 So what very likely happened, if I were to guess, if I were to, you know,

00:12:39.720 put the house on it, bet the house on it,

00:12:41.800 some low-level staffer with, you know, purple hair and a nose ring

00:12:44.860 saw some of the things that we were saying during Pride Month

00:12:47.100 about how, you know, pride's an abomination and, you know,

00:12:49.760 all these different sinful behaviors.

00:12:50.980 And we say all kinds of crazy stuff on our show.

00:12:53.240 Like, you know, we shouldn't kill babies when they're in the womb.

00:12:55.840 You know, 14-year-old girls shouldn't have their breasts removed

00:12:57.860 because they're, you know, gender confused.

00:12:59.600 We say crazy stuff like that.

00:13:01.360 So I'm sure some staffer—

00:13:02.500 This is crazy. This is absolutely crazy, you know, things you're saying here.

00:13:05.220 Yeah. And so I'm sure some staffer saw that, didn't appreciate it,

00:13:08.540 and they put us on a list.

00:13:09.500 And we weren't doing massive numbers on there.

00:13:13.180 But that is where all of our donations go through, Ryan.

00:13:16.220 And so the main reason I say this all the time on the show,

00:13:18.500 the main reason why Undaunted Life's even a thing is because we have donors.

00:13:21.180 We have guys like you and I that are giving $10 a month, $25 a month, $50 a month

00:13:25.200 because they like the content and they want to see it continue.

00:13:28.180 Well, this credit card processor processes every single one of those donations,

00:13:31.960 and just like that, they could turn it off.

00:13:33.960 Now, they thought they were doing me a favor because it's like,

00:13:35.920 oh, we'll give you 30 days.

00:13:37.200 But then they're in charge of all the vaulted information,

00:13:40.060 which is the credit card information, which is the most important stuff.

00:13:43.080 And so if the new company I go to can't take that vaulted information

00:13:47.520 and transfer it directly over, you know what happens.

00:13:50.640 Second-hardest thing to do is to get someone to sign up to be a monthly donor.

00:13:53.360 First-hardest thing to do is to get them to re-sign up to be a monthly donor, right?

00:13:56.500 All right, sign them up twice.

00:13:58.240 Yeah, and so it's like, oh, hey, can you go to this new website

00:14:00.960 and set up a new account so that you can give me money for my benefit only?

00:14:05.700 And so that's the long and short of the situation we're going through.

00:14:09.560 But the overall thing, guys, is we always talk about, oh, people are getting canceled

00:14:13.800 on social media and blah, blah.

00:14:15.120 Well, look, if you're a private citizen and someone turns off your Twitter account

00:14:19.440 or something like that, that really sucks, and that is tamping down your free speech.

00:14:23.400 But what they want to do is they want to take out business owners.

00:14:25.920 They want to take out people that employ other people.

00:14:28.120 They want to take out content creators because if you're putting out a counter-narrative

00:14:31.560 to the accepted narrative, whether it's on any subject,

00:14:34.940 whether it's the C word from 2020 or BLM or any of these types of things,

00:14:39.080 if you go counter to the narrative that is accepted, they will do what they can to crush you,

00:14:43.280 and they can use things like the federal government, like the IRS.

00:14:46.940 They can use the small business bureaus even in your city to try and make your life a living hell.

00:14:52.600 And the thing is we constantly talk about resilience

00:14:55.100 and being resilient in the face of these challenges,

00:14:57.440 but even as Christians, it's like we should expect these things to come.

00:15:00.980 Not everything is persecution.

00:15:03.020 If someone leaves a negative comment on your YouTube channel

00:15:05.420 because they don't like the fact that you say the word Jesus, that's not persecution.

00:15:09.160 This is, though.

00:15:10.300 This is them trying to shut down a dissenting opinion

00:15:12.860 that doesn't go with the accepted orthodoxy of the LGBTQ plus lobby or just leftism in general.

00:15:19.620 For most of my life, the way that I understood empathy was actually a form of enablement,

00:15:25.580 is that I wasn't actually being honest with people.

00:15:28.020 I was saying all the right things.

00:15:29.980 I was able to wear the masks.

00:15:31.820 I was able to show up and be exactly who I needed to be

00:15:34.340 because I convinced myself like that was the best way to love people, is to help people.

00:15:39.560 And so fierce empathy didn't come until much later where I started to understand

00:15:44.160 that my perspective on empathy needed some modification.

00:15:48.720 And I realized that I had been lying to myself.

00:15:51.460 I had been lying to other people.

00:15:53.360 I didn't have any courage.

00:15:55.160 I was terrified of what speaking the hard truth and love might actually look like

00:15:59.740 because of the fear of rejection, because of wondering whether or not people are going

00:16:03.580 to accept me or allow me to be a part of the crew anymore.

00:16:06.440 And so it was this discovery process to where eventually I have a working definition now,

00:16:11.960 Ryan, fierce empathy is being fiercely committed to what you believe,

00:16:16.580 but simultaneously being willing to create an environment where others feel seen, heard,

00:16:21.940 understood, known, and loved.

00:16:22.960 And so what that looks like is that if you and I are in relationship, and that's the foundation,

00:16:27.880 we have to have relationship.

00:16:29.440 We live in a world where everyone thinks that you can hold each other accountable with no relationship.

00:16:33.780 You can call people out on their shit.

00:16:35.660 You can try and-

00:16:36.120 I mean, that's just unsolicited advice, and nobody ever in the history of mankind has appreciated unsolicited advice.

00:16:42.100 Because we don't understand that in the world we live in for some reason as a culture.

00:16:46.740 And so in the context of relationship, if I truly love you, Ryan, you don't want someone who's always telling you what you want to hear, right?

00:16:57.360 None of us need that as men.

00:16:58.900 We need men around us who have the courage to say, bro, I love you.

00:17:03.140 I see you.

00:17:03.960 I hear you.

00:17:04.820 But you need to be aware of this, and I need to speak some hard truth right now that you desperately need to hear because your perspective is skewed or because you're making some poor choices.

00:17:15.700 You're not in alignment with the standards that you've set for yourself, that you've communicated to me.

00:17:21.000 And as your brother, I'm going to speak the hard truth in love.

00:17:24.340 So that's where the fierceness comes, is saying I'm going to be fiercely committed to speak the hard truth in love and to cling to what I believe and enter a dialogue.

00:17:32.180 But I'm also going to make sure that I'm creating this environment where there's safety, which a lot of times we as men, we don't really do that.

00:17:40.700 It makes a lot of sense.

00:17:42.340 And as you were talking about those things and how you define empathy versus fierce empathy, I can't help but think that you at some point, maybe even you have called yourself this one of these recovering nice guys.

00:17:55.660 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:17:56.700 Yeah, I just I heard some things that you had said in that definition.

00:18:01.040 I thought to myself, oh, this is somebody who you got walked on, you got stepped on, you got pushed around.

00:18:06.440 The interesting thing about the nice guy is there's a misconception, I believe, that this is a passive, cowardly, timid weakling.

00:18:16.060 And maybe there's some element of that.

00:18:18.340 But more than anything, this is a manipulative person who is very, very selfish, but they don't display it in what we would generally consider a selfish, braggadocious, arrogant way.

00:18:31.220 They're a lot more subtle about it, and it paints itself as kindness when in all reality it's just selfishness.

00:18:38.000 It is 100 percent.

00:18:39.500 It's a false humility.

00:18:41.000 It is the nice guy syndrome, and there's a great book on that.

00:18:44.540 No More Mr. Nice Guy, I'm sure you're familiar with, is a great one.

00:18:47.600 But we don't realize that we live in a culture and a society, and I love, you know, our missions are very similar, Ryan, in that our goal is to help reclaim so much of what has been lost through passivity and through fake and through manipulation.

00:19:03.040 And I was that guy.

00:19:04.860 I was that guy who I thought I was the nice guy.

00:19:07.560 I thought I was – I grew up in a religious household, so I believed that, you know, I was supposed to be a good Christian boy.

00:19:13.920 And I was a good Christian boy, except I was lying to everyone, including myself.

00:19:20.460 How did that – and I want to talk about both, to others and to yourself.

00:19:24.100 We'll get to both of them.

00:19:25.120 But when you say lying, let's just take to others, for example.

00:19:29.160 How did that actually look?

00:19:31.860 Like what is it that you were saying?

00:19:33.760 What is it you were doing?

00:19:34.740 What were you lying about?

00:19:36.300 Because I think that's kind of a catchphrase that I hear a lot.

00:19:38.740 I was lying to people, but nobody ever explains.

00:19:41.580 Yeah.

00:19:41.840 What exactly do you mean, and how did you catch yourself doing it?

00:19:45.140 Absolutely.

00:19:45.840 So you can't – one of the hard things about this is that when you're consistently lying to other people, most often you don't realize it.

00:19:53.960 Like it's your subjective truth, and so you're not actually aware or consciously aware that you're lying to people.

00:20:00.400 And in my opinion, you can't actually become aware of that until you have someone who literally like decks you right in the face with the truth, objective truth, or until you realize that you have been lying to yourself all along.

00:20:13.060 And so here's what this looks like is that – a very simple example, I'm sure we've all experienced this, is when we're going out to eat with your wife or your girlfriend.

00:20:20.420 And she leans over and is like, hey, where do you want to go get food?

00:20:25.480 You're like, well, I don't care, right?

00:20:28.400 And then you can get into this little tussle back and forth.

00:20:30.860 It's like, I don't care.

00:20:31.340 Where do you want food?

00:20:31.900 Well, I don't care.

00:20:32.440 Where do you want food?

00:20:32.960 And then a guy starts listing off.

00:20:34.280 You want to go to Carrabba's?

00:20:35.460 You want to go to Olive Garden?

00:20:36.440 You want to go to Ruby Tuesday?

00:20:37.440 She's like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:20:39.180 That is something so simple that as a man, we don't even realize that we are literally lying.

00:20:47.280 You may not think that it's that big of a deal.

00:20:49.920 You do care.

00:20:51.220 You do have an opinion.

00:20:52.320 And for me, I got convinced that I was trying to love people well by being accommodating, never sharing my opinion, never sharing my thoughts.

00:21:01.080 Because I thought, I was fully convinced, Ryan, that it was my job to elevate everyone else around me and invalidate myself because that was some form of asceticism, some form of altruistic, religious, good Christian boy, what I'm supposed to do.

00:21:16.920 And what I didn't realize that because I was so deceived around my relationship with myself, everything I was saying was really just lying.

00:21:25.940 I was just literally telling people what I knew they wanted to hear so I could look better in their eyes, but I didn't realize how much that would destroy my soul.

00:21:36.720 And it led me to the point where I ended up in the bathroom ready to end my life with a Glock in my hand.

00:21:44.160 I like to communicate things in terms of a frame.

00:21:49.080 And this is probably one of the most powerful tools you can have when it comes to having a difficult conversation, and that is you tell them what you want to talk about, you tell them how you want it to end, and then you get your buy-in into it.

00:22:06.580 So let's say, Ryan, you and I are working on a team, I have some kind of a little bit more supervisory role in this, and I need to address something serious with you.

00:22:18.900 I could come to you and say, Ryan, I need to talk about the comments you made at last Thursday's meeting, and at the end of this conversation, I need to know that's not going to happen again.

00:22:28.360 Sound good?

00:22:30.100 You're going to go, sounds good.

00:22:31.460 And then we get to actually talk about it.

00:22:33.340 Now I got your buy-in.

00:22:34.360 Now, in a weird way, it's like a verbal contract where you feel like you're, we don't have to worry about any other issue.

00:22:40.760 We know that this is solely the frame.

00:22:42.780 This is what we're going to talk about.

00:22:44.200 Now you compare that with what I just like to call a very upfront sentence, meaning any difficult conversation you need to have, and you're going to, I use these all the time.

00:22:56.520 You just tell them, you label the conversation itself.

00:22:59.920 So I might start with, Ryan, this is going to be a difficult conversation.

00:23:04.740 As easy as that.

00:23:06.400 This isn't going to be fun to talk about.

00:23:09.060 This may come as a shock to you.

00:23:11.220 This is going to be hard for us to discuss.

00:23:13.700 Whenever you say those things and kind of give them a little bit of a pause, they kind of gather themselves up and ready themselves rather than this wondering, hey, so you know how we've been dating for like six months?

00:23:28.860 And it's been great.

00:23:29.620 Really, it has.

00:23:30.720 And all of a sudden, they're just like, they start losing their mind.

00:23:33.320 They start spinning in circles.

00:23:34.720 You're not going fast enough.

00:23:36.140 But you're trying to be kind.

00:23:37.520 You're trying to let them down easy.

00:23:40.000 No, it's a terrible, painful thing for them to go through.

00:23:44.200 Instead, you just need to be very upfront right out of the gate.

00:23:47.060 This isn't going to be fun for us to talk about or you're not going to like this or this is going to be hard to discuss.

00:23:52.260 That's going to go way better than trying to hem and haul, as they say.

00:23:57.360 Yeah, I think that's a really good point because I think when you do what you call the sandwich thing where it's compliment, critique, compliment type framework, it's really all you're doing.

00:24:08.620 And people aren't dumb.

00:24:10.280 You're just teeing people up.

00:24:12.140 So it's like if you came to me and said, hey, Ryan, look, I wanted to talk with you.

00:24:17.760 I think you're a great podcast.

00:24:20.060 And I'm like, oh, cool.

00:24:20.900 I'm all excited.

00:24:21.800 And you're like, but I don't want to be on your show.

00:24:23.400 Yeah, everybody's waiting for the hammer.

00:24:24.900 You got it.

00:24:25.400 It's like, dude, I already knew that was coming.

00:24:27.720 So why don't you just leave with that and not waste anybody's time?

00:24:30.740 Exactly.

00:24:31.340 Or part of that advice is not to start with the small talk.

00:24:36.940 Don't start with the pleasantries of when you sit down and somebody goes, so how are things?

00:24:42.400 You good?

00:24:43.160 Everybody, kids are good.

00:24:44.220 People are healthy.

00:24:45.000 Man, this weather, it's crazy, right?

00:24:46.420 Yeah, what are we doing here?

00:24:47.760 And then here's what they say.

00:24:49.980 They'll say, oh, this weather's crazy, right?

00:24:52.140 So listen, you know how, like, just that right there, the so listen, it's a little bit more

00:24:59.120 of a tone.

00:25:00.020 And what it's communicating is everything I just asked about, it was just fluff.

00:25:03.480 It doesn't really mean anything.

00:25:05.200 I just didn't want to get right into the conversation of what we needed to discuss.

00:25:09.900 But everybody knows.

00:25:11.500 I mean, everybody has this sixth sense of, that's not why you called me in here.

00:25:15.680 So anytime it's a start with a high positive, people will think of what's wrong the entire

00:25:22.040 time.

00:25:23.460 When's it coming?

00:25:24.280 To me, when you say that, and as we talk about this, it just seems like it's just more

00:25:31.660 respectful.

00:25:32.600 You know, sometimes we'll say, and I've caught myself doing this, where I'll say, well, I

00:25:36.580 care so much about this person, I don't want to hurt them.

00:25:38.960 If I'm being honest, though, when I'm doing it that way, the improper way, I would say,

00:25:44.880 is I'm not so much concerned with their feelings as much as I'm concerned about how I feel about

00:25:49.860 their feelings.

00:25:50.380 So it's more about me than it is about them.

00:25:53.100 Oh, man, that's such a good point.

00:25:54.560 Yes.

00:25:54.820 So anytime you are afraid to be direct with that person to deliver that bad news, what you're

00:26:01.680 really saying is that you don't believe they have enough emotional resiliency, where they

00:26:07.800 have to rely upon you and your communication skills to gently put them on a cloud and make

00:26:15.200 them feel better somehow after the conversation.

00:26:18.880 When you're direct, it can be much more kind in a way.

00:26:25.920 It's much more respectful to just say what you need to say right out of the gate rather

00:26:30.260 than try to come at it indirectly.

00:26:34.880 In order to get at these apexes at the U.S. government, whether you go Joint Special Operations

00:26:40.820 Command, working at a three-letter agency, Special Forces, Navy SEAL, or go Ranger Regiment,

00:26:47.320 any of those, as I like to say, the Adventure Plus package options of life, you're going to

00:26:53.880 get to a certain point where, you know, your experiences, they're going to tell you, I'm a

00:27:00.160 very competent person.

00:27:01.660 And you have to be very, very careful.

00:27:03.920 I mean, I see, you see arrogance in some of these, these circles.

00:27:07.380 And you just, you know, in order to really grow, you have to be really mindful of yourself.

00:27:13.320 And it's, it's more of a, it's, self-awareness is probably one of the most powerful things that

00:27:18.360 you can develop over, and just in having like that growth mindset and being able to go out

00:27:26.580 there and try new things.

00:27:27.640 And I mean, when I, when I went from a Green Beret to become a spy, I was just like, all

00:27:33.900 right, I'm going to just, I think this stuff is cool, dude.

00:27:37.240 I'm just going to jump in with two feet and figure it out.

00:27:40.040 And, and I got a good, big old slice of humble pie, you know, cause I'm entering into a whole

00:27:46.880 community where they, you know, they're all tired of the James Bond movies of SF guys and

00:27:53.020 Navy SEALs coming in and be like, you know, take it indoors and the bravado and everything.

00:27:57.420 And, and to that, to, to, to kind of come full circle, what we were talking about at the

00:28:03.120 beginning here is that I had to become someone else.

00:28:07.620 I totally had to become someone else.

00:28:09.580 I had to become, I couldn't be the guy who was in the operational detachment alpha.

00:28:16.780 That's a special forces ODA in the, that we say a team room, which is like a locker room.

00:28:22.300 And you've got a bunch of, uh, hardened type A personalities who, you know, signed up to

00:28:27.600 go kill, capture enemy.

00:28:29.440 And, you know, is that have a place in the intelligence community?

00:28:34.340 It does, but it, I had to dial a lot of that back.

00:28:40.280 And, um, and so I think when we are not true to ourselves, when we're not true to our nature,

00:28:47.200 that it's something called, I like to say, uh, it's emotional dissonance and it takes,

00:28:52.640 right.

00:28:53.680 It takes a lot of calories.

00:28:55.100 And I, I started looking at myself as that I realized that, um, I can't be the, uh, uh,

00:29:01.100 the, uh, barrel chested freedom fighter that I, that I wanted to set up for it or that I

00:29:06.900 signed up for it in this, in this particular setting.

00:29:09.080 Um, so it's really, it's when you, when you're looking in the, inside these organizations

00:29:17.100 and, you know, wanting to do the job, it's, I wanted to do the job at, at the expense of

00:29:22.160 being true to myself.

00:29:26.220 Gentlemen, I'm going to step away from the highlights very quickly.

00:29:28.660 Uh, if you haven't joined the iron council in the last couple of days, the window is officially

00:29:33.060 closed, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything you can do.

00:29:36.480 In fact, you should still be doing things.

00:29:38.780 Uh, if you had some extenuating circumstances, let me know and we'll see if we can make an

00:29:43.280 exception for you to band with us before we all get too far down the path.

00:29:47.400 And if that's not the case, I would encourage you to check out our battle ready program.

00:29:51.360 Now, this is a free course.

00:29:53.060 And in that course, you're going to get a series of 17 emails with very actionable challenges

00:29:58.580 that are simple and quick, but compound over time, uh, they produce big results.

00:30:05.320 And when the iron council is back open, you'll be poised to take full advantage of all the

00:30:10.280 resources there.

00:30:11.120 So make sure to check it out.

00:30:12.360 The battle ready program.

00:30:13.640 It's a free program.

00:30:14.920 We're going to deliver it right to your inbox.

00:30:16.660 As soon as you sign up, you can do that at order of man.com slash battle ready.

00:30:21.540 All right, guys, back to the highlights from 2024.

00:30:24.920 I came of age at a point where I was given a very specific message from, from schools

00:30:32.340 and from society and from media about what it means to be a man.

00:30:36.840 And it was the first, it was the front end of that sort of more progressive, more where

00:30:42.200 the old ideas of masculinity are bad, they're outdated, they're toxic.

00:30:46.700 That it was the very beginning of that.

00:30:48.200 And, and so I, I, like any kid, man, I was impressionable.

00:30:52.380 And, and in my early twenties, I believed every, every word of it.

00:30:55.980 And I was like, Oh, I need to be nice.

00:30:58.020 I need, I need to be a lot nicer.

00:30:59.860 I need, if I, if I'm just a good boy and I do what I do, what I know I'm supposed to

00:31:04.120 do, then I'll get what I want out of life.

00:31:06.940 And slowly as I, as I entered my early twenties and was on my own out in the world, I realized

00:31:12.680 that I wouldn't, I was, I was nice.

00:31:15.200 I thought I was nice, but I wasn't getting what I wanted out of life.

00:31:19.460 I wasn't getting the results that I wanted out of life.

00:31:21.940 And it wasn't honestly, man, I think the, the early days, this was like 2013.

00:31:26.400 When did you really get going?

00:31:29.220 2015.

00:31:29.880 Okay.

00:31:30.380 So, so I would have come across you right around then.

00:31:33.580 But some of those early guys talking about stuff like, you know what, actually, if you're

00:31:39.400 a man, you're going to have a lot better time just spiritually.

00:31:42.860 Mentally, not to mention physically and in your relationships.

00:31:45.680 If you're trying to get stronger, if you're actually challenging yourself to build something,

00:31:50.880 if you're actually trying to improve yourself and that those, those self-improvement messages

00:31:55.200 that, that really nobody in my generation had ever heard until 2013, 2014, when it started

00:32:02.240 popping up online, that's what, that's what changed everything for me.

00:32:06.860 And I was, and so I was like, the first thing I did was I started lifting weights at 26 years

00:32:10.180 old.

00:32:10.400 I'd never really done it before.

00:32:11.660 And almost immediately, like the very first lift, you get your first pump ever and you

00:32:17.680 look in the mirror and you're like, oh, I did that.

00:32:21.100 That's because, that's because of me.

00:32:22.440 And I feel better because of my actions.

00:32:24.300 And that agency was something that was completely foreign to me.

00:32:27.300 That idea that I could, that if I wanted something, I was going to have to actually do it and work

00:32:31.780 for it.

00:32:32.240 And that was kind of my first taste of all this other, them telling me that these, these

00:32:37.200 old school, what it means to be a man stuff is bad.

00:32:40.700 That's, that's not true.

00:32:42.420 And I want, I want to know what's true.

00:32:44.340 And the more I explore, the more I was like, actually, most men are a lot happier and a

00:32:49.020 lot healthier and a lot more successful in their relationships and more successful in

00:32:51.940 their business.

00:32:52.360 If they're leaning into what it means to be a man and they're not shying away from it.

00:32:56.820 And these old things, these old conceptions of masculinity, they existed for a reason.

00:33:00.860 Our ancestors were smarter than we give them credit for.

00:33:03.200 And, and more men are discovering that every day.

00:33:05.920 And to the extent I can play a role in that, I'm very grateful.

00:33:10.420 Do you believe that there's a concerted effort, whether it's conspiratorial in nature or just

00:33:16.220 a bunch of independent actors working to undermine any road masculinity, or is it simply a byproduct

00:33:24.600 of the current times that we live in?

00:33:26.760 I mean, let's be honest, our need to really step up as our ancestors did is not as great

00:33:35.340 as it once was.

00:33:36.180 And, and I've got a friend, Jack Donovan, who says in this day and age, you have to choose

00:33:40.700 to be a man, uh, before you didn't have a choice, either be a man or die or get people around you

00:33:46.640 killed.

00:33:46.960 And that's not the case today.

00:33:48.700 So is there a concerted effort or is it just the situation we found ourselves in because good

00:33:56.520 men have come, come before and created this, this type of environment for us?

00:34:00.220 I think, I think the good men, hard times, hard times, bad men, you know, that, that,

00:34:05.640 that heuristic is very, very useful, but it's, it's, it's a combination of stuff, dude.

00:34:11.900 It's environmental.

00:34:12.900 I mean, you just look at like the average, um, testosterone levels in men today versus,

00:34:19.600 versus, uh, our, our grandfathers of court, they're declining.

00:34:22.900 And a lot of those are environmental factors.

00:34:24.640 And are you saying, is someone really going to say like, that was intentional?

00:34:28.520 May, I mean, maybe, but it's also, you follow the money.

00:34:31.980 It's convenient to have a lot of, to make things out of plastic.

00:34:34.380 The plastic gets into our water supply.

00:34:36.420 Yeah.

00:34:36.680 Like, so, so is that part, but, but the, the result is more is, is men who are, who are

00:34:43.780 less comfortable, maybe even less able to embody a lot of those masculine roles and ideals

00:34:51.240 that were so ubiquitous throughout human history.

00:34:54.280 So that's one, one cause.

00:34:56.220 I do think that there is an effort in media, media and politics, especially, but really all

00:35:02.480 of our institutions to, to change what the definition of a man is.

00:35:08.700 And you can get into what their motivation for, for doing that is.

00:35:13.220 But, but the end result again is, is a lot of confusion.

00:35:16.780 Young men coming along being like, like me, dude.

00:35:19.560 And I, and that was 15 years ago.

00:35:21.600 It's gotten so much worse now, or 12 years ago.

00:35:23.800 It's gotten so much worse now, but guys come along and, and just have this really wrong

00:35:29.160 conception.

00:35:29.740 Like it's actually pretty good what, what men are called to do.

00:35:33.560 And, and if we perform the role that, that we most naturally fit into that has net, net

00:35:38.620 benefits for society.

00:35:40.600 But we, but guys, guys are confused and women are confused and everybody's confused and they

00:35:45.940 don't know what, they don't know who they are.

00:35:47.820 They don't know what's true.

00:35:49.600 And, and I think a lot of that comes from media.

00:35:51.800 I think a lot of it comes from the schools.

00:35:53.420 I think a lot of it comes from government policies.

00:35:56.320 And is it intentional?

00:35:58.980 Well, it definitely benefits the people in power.

00:36:03.560 So, so if you want to, if, if, if you want to think about it like that is, is follow the

00:36:07.640 power, follow the money, follow the power.

00:36:09.920 If I was, if I was a bad guy and I wanted to control a population and keep my power, well,

00:36:16.220 I certainly would want to erode spaces where men could speak freely amongst themselves.

00:36:22.140 I would want to erode spaces where men would, would improve themselves.

00:36:25.820 And I would want to confuse men so that they would shy away from getting stronger because

00:36:30.280 they'd be less able to defend themselves.

00:36:31.900 So is that what, is that what's happening?

00:36:34.140 I don't know.

00:36:35.340 The people making those decisions are, are in a club that I'm not in.

00:36:38.540 I'm not there for those decisions, but, but you can, you can connect the dots.

00:36:44.120 My son got, he got voted for some cool award, my, my high school age son.

00:36:49.360 And, uh, I was pretty, I was pretty damn sure that I told my girlfriend about it and it

00:36:54.900 happened a few weeks ago.

00:36:55.860 But then as we're on the plane, I said, Hey, look at this video.

00:36:58.280 It's him on stage.

00:36:59.500 And, and she starts to get upset.

00:37:01.500 She, she had forgotten that I told her and she started to get upset.

00:37:05.400 Like, you didn't tell me this.

00:37:06.580 I don't feel included in your family.

00:37:08.380 This hurts.

00:37:09.100 You know, she got actually rather emotional with me and I was pretty damn sure I had told

00:37:13.040 her, but I didn't remember a hundred percent.

00:37:14.360 So I decided not to go down the road immediately in that moment of, no, no, I'm pretty sure

00:37:19.820 I told you, you know, let's go look it up.

00:37:21.940 I actually said, I was almost as an experiment.

00:37:25.100 I said, screw it.

00:37:25.740 I'm actually just going to be with her emotion, even though I pretty damn sure I'm right here.

00:37:29.180 But I knew that if I started to argue the facts in that moment while she was emotional,

00:37:33.040 it wouldn't go anywhere because she can't receive the information that I'm giving her.

00:37:37.520 She's at the emotional plane.

00:37:39.080 And so the never the twain shall meet.

00:37:41.100 So if I tried to come in with that information, so I actually just sat with the

00:37:44.340 emotion.

00:37:44.740 I said, you know, actually, I hear you, baby.

00:37:47.300 That wouldn't feel good if I was, if I was leaving you out of important things in my son's

00:37:51.300 life.

00:37:51.520 And you've, you've expressed this to me before.

00:37:53.300 So I get it, babe.

00:37:54.980 And I just empathized with her without, without even talking to the facts of whether she was

00:37:59.400 right or wrong.

00:38:01.220 And she calmed down within about a minute or less.

00:38:06.100 And then I, about 20 minutes later, I pulled up the text.

00:38:08.980 I was like, Hey, babe, you might want to see this.

00:38:10.780 And I showed her that I had told her two weeks ago.

00:38:13.340 But I knew that if I just tried to argue the facts, no matter how right I was, and I was

00:38:17.700 pretty damn right on that one, I just knew in that moment, she wasn't ready for it.

00:38:22.120 And so what's the point?

00:38:23.620 And that's what I'm, I, one of the phrases out of the book is feelings first, facts later.

00:38:28.800 When you try to get the facts reconciled first, it never works because she's in an emotional

00:38:33.880 space.

00:38:34.720 Go get emotional resonance with her.

00:38:36.960 Give her some empathy.

00:38:37.720 She'll come down and then you bring the facts into the equation.

00:38:41.220 And it's so, it's not a like either or, or who should, who's right or who's wrong.

00:38:45.700 It's just a sequencing problem.

00:38:47.240 Deal with the emotions first, settle her nervous system first, whatever that means, then get

00:38:52.140 to the facts.

00:38:52.720 And you're going to find yourself a whole lot more successful if you, if you've got a reasonably

00:38:56.180 emotional woman.

00:38:57.360 I always say this, guys, it's not masculine to fight with your woman.

00:39:01.200 So if you think it's like masculine to argue your point and get to be right, all you're

00:39:05.480 going to do is devolve into a big fight, which doesn't, doesn't show you in your power in

00:39:10.320 this world.

00:39:10.820 And so get really skillful in that, that, that space of irrationality.

00:39:16.500 Can you actually operate skillfully in that space?

00:39:19.140 And this is what I try to teach guys to do.

00:39:21.440 If you can operate then in that space, pretty skillfully, that space tends to shrink in time

00:39:25.880 duration real fast.

00:39:26.960 Like I said, my woman calmed down in a minute or less, um, but that could have easily turned

00:39:31.320 into a seven hour fight, quite frankly.

00:39:34.000 Um, so guys get skillful in that space where it's not governed by the laws of facts.

00:39:38.960 And what you'll find is that that space shrinks in, like I said, in time duration.

00:39:45.120 I think we need to recognize that when it comes to relationships, women are already, women

00:39:50.080 are already going into that from a higher degree of vulnerability than we are.

00:39:53.580 And so showing vulnerability to her, I think is perfectly appropriate if you're serious

00:39:59.560 about it, right?

00:40:00.180 It should never be a manipulative thing.

00:40:02.300 And both of us had grown up in environments where we had seen that, that break down.

00:40:06.720 And so we wanted it to be genuine and, um, yeah, but we had also taught, we had talked

00:40:12.380 in depth about marriage without either one of us saying, I love you to the other one.

00:40:17.160 Um, because we also wanted to know that that's what we wanted and that's what we were serious

00:40:21.720 about, but yeah, so that's how, that is how I knew, um, that, that she was going to be,

00:40:27.680 that's how I thought like, okay, that was a good test of loyalty, right?

00:40:30.660 Basic training.

00:40:32.100 And then, um, when we're in the military, um, again, I, I just never, I never had to worry.

00:40:37.420 She never gave me cause to worry.

00:40:39.000 That's one thing too.

00:40:39.840 We talk a lot about the responsibilities that men have to their wives.

00:40:43.240 And I think that's absolutely true.

00:40:44.660 Wives also have responsibilities to their husband.

00:40:46.740 And if your husband's going to be away a lot, making sure that you're conducting yourself

00:40:50.840 in such a way to where, you know, that he's it for you, um, is, is really important.

00:40:56.560 And she always did that.

00:40:57.440 Same thing with my combat tours.

00:40:58.540 I was actually over in Iraq and it was six as well.

00:41:00.340 I was, uh, I was up in, uh, um, uh, Bajie in, uh, 2006.

00:41:05.960 So we were over in Iraq at the same time.

00:41:08.300 And same thing she wrote, she wrote regularly.

00:41:10.840 She'd always send pictures.

00:41:11.900 Like we had, um, we had children at the time.

00:41:14.040 She would, you know, make stuff for the kids to wear and, and make sure that they stayed

00:41:17.720 connected with, with daddy.

00:41:18.760 When I came home from my combat, uh, first combat tour, there, there wasn't a lot of,

00:41:24.060 um, you know, there's always that when you come back home and it's, it's reintegrating

00:41:28.640 into the family.

00:41:29.840 She made that so seamless for me because when I was gone, she never complained about me being

00:41:35.300 gone.

00:41:36.040 And, and, and, and, you know, it has to be hard, right?

00:41:39.120 No, it has to be unbelievably hard, harder on women than it is for the guys overseas.

00:41:43.000 I think, I mean, it's, it's, they're, they're dealing with so much uncertainty and so much

00:41:47.100 things that they can't control.

00:41:48.380 And it like, they don't get a rifle to shoot off the things that, that, that are plaguing

00:41:52.400 them.

00:41:52.600 Right.

00:41:53.140 But she always reinforced to my kids for, for, you know, and I went back in 08, she always

00:41:58.400 reinforced to my kids.

00:41:59.180 Like, Hey, daddy would love to be here with us, but daddy's protecting us.

00:42:02.000 Daddy's serving his country.

00:42:03.280 And we are so proud of him.

00:42:05.220 So when I came home, my kids were thrilled to see me.

00:42:08.140 They didn't feel abandoned.

00:42:08.980 They didn't feel disconnected from daddy, right?

00:42:12.600 It was, they, they love daddy and they were so happy he was home.

00:42:15.740 And that wasn't me.

00:42:17.320 That was her.

00:42:19.220 And so time after time, she had just demonstrated that, that when she was committed to me and

00:42:26.160 our, when she was also committed to our marriage.

00:42:27.980 And so she embraced the roles that she had to play within that marriage and just consistently

00:42:33.000 reinforced that she was there through thick and thin.

00:42:35.960 And that doesn't mean that every time it was happy to, like, I remember us being on a

00:42:39.340 phone call.

00:42:39.920 I got back from a combat tour, went straight to a J set.

00:42:43.260 I'm on a satellite phone in Bangladesh.

00:42:45.140 I just got an opportunity to go to a Sephardic, which was kind of a high-speed CQB school.

00:42:49.740 And I'm saying, Hey baby, when I get back home from Bangladesh, two weeks later, I gotta

00:42:52.980 leave for, and she was not happy.

00:42:55.080 She's like, this ain't war, babe.

00:42:56.500 You could be home.

00:42:57.440 This ain't war.

00:42:58.220 Right.

00:42:58.980 And, um, but one of the other things that my wife always did for me that was really incredible

00:43:03.160 is, is, and this is rooted in our faith.

00:43:07.060 Um, our, our thing is, is that I am the head of the household.

00:43:10.640 Now, a lot of men get caught up on being in charge without understanding the responsibility

00:43:15.440 that comes with that.

00:43:16.320 Because what that honestly means within a biblical worldview is my life for hers.

00:43:21.320 Um, and there's, there's only been one time, there's only been probably a two or three times

00:43:26.520 in the whole course of our marriage where we could not reach resolution on a course of

00:43:31.380 action.

00:43:33.080 And we, we prayed about it.

00:43:35.240 We debated about it.

00:43:36.020 We talked about it.

00:43:36.720 Sometimes that we had heated discussions about it, the whole deal, right?

00:43:39.120 We're both passionate people.

00:43:40.940 And we finally came to a point where it's like the decision has to be made.

00:43:43.720 And she goes, well, babe, I will follow your lead.

00:43:47.260 And when she said that she didn't just mean, okay, I will begrudgingly do what you say because

00:43:52.740 you're the head of the household and you have that responsibility.

00:43:54.600 It was, I will now commit myself to this decision to make it work.

00:44:00.680 So she went all in rather than just complied.

00:44:03.160 It was, it was a commitment versus compliance.

00:44:06.820 Yes, it was.

00:44:08.200 I don't agree that this is the hill we should be charging, but we got to charge it.

00:44:12.600 We got to, we got to move.

00:44:13.820 So now I'm going to move and now I'm going to charge it.

00:44:15.760 And again, it's one of those things that have just reinforced over time when, whenever

00:44:20.300 I'm in difficult situations, like, no, I know she's got my back.

00:44:23.300 And she knows I have hers.

00:44:26.580 She, she has to also know that if I have to make a decision, um, that I have to make.

00:44:32.800 So with, with her wellbeing and the wellbeing of our, our children and our marriage above

00:44:36.960 my own needs, wants, and desires.

00:44:39.700 Um, and sometimes that can be difficult too, because it's really easy to make your own needs,

00:44:43.180 wants, and desires.

00:44:43.900 What's best for the marriage or best for the family.

00:44:45.800 And it's, it's, and she, she has to trust that I'm not doing that.

00:44:50.360 You need pipe hitters that can flip the switch to violence in a heartbeat and they do it from

00:44:59.900 a thinking shooter's point of view, meaning they're not, they're, they're pulling guns

00:45:04.060 and they're doing what they need to do, but they're also smart enough and experienced enough

00:45:08.100 not to do something stupid in those moments.

00:45:10.180 Right.

00:45:10.520 And, you know, pipe hitters tend to be males, not females.

00:45:16.480 And that's what you need around your president.

00:45:18.820 It's important to note too, the secret service is not an offensive unit.

00:45:22.320 It's a hundred percent defense, right?

00:45:24.240 I mean, everything they do is defensive.

00:45:27.260 Um, and that's just how it is in the PSD world, right?

00:45:31.420 You wait for something to happen and then you respond as quickly and as methodically as

00:45:36.240 possible based on your protocols.

00:45:38.760 Um, and so at the end of the day, they are always at the disadvantage and it's on them

00:45:45.740 plus technology.

00:45:47.140 And then they have this whole department called, um, glass and steel, right?

00:45:52.420 They're glass and steel folks are the ones for putting up, you know, um, bulletproof glass

00:45:57.360 on a podium, for example, steel would be the, the vehicles.

00:46:00.980 And then they've got, they've got a lot of other tools in their arsenal that they can bring

00:46:05.440 to bear, but the candidates don't typically get that.

00:46:08.880 That's usually a reserve for the president.

00:46:11.540 Um, so I think there's a lot of, um, I think they're going to end up, you know, with this

00:46:17.940 investigation and when you go and go through and assess everything, there's probably going

00:46:22.900 to be some changes.

00:46:24.040 And the big piece for me was where were the drones that day?

00:46:28.720 The secret service drones, the law enforcement drones, the hired security force drone.

00:46:34.880 Where is the drones?

00:46:36.360 Like they're not, you know, you and I can buy a drone and check out the area and ensure

00:46:42.140 that there's nothing going on.

00:46:43.900 That's, you know, suspicious or some guys creeping up to a building and then climbing up the side

00:46:48.940 of it and then crawling across the top of it.

00:46:51.360 All of that, you know, a drone would have detected in a heartbeat.

00:46:54.840 Um, but going back to the female leadership and, you know, increasing secret service, uh,

00:47:01.220 female employment by 30% so that we've seen it.

00:47:05.380 I think that's, I mean, I, I just feel like you need pipe hitters around the leader of the

00:47:12.400 free world.

00:47:12.960 I agree.

00:47:13.820 I think too many people tend to believe, and this is a, this is a direct result of

00:47:19.240 the feminist movement that, that just because a woman can't necessarily do the same job a

00:47:25.660 man can do that, she's inferior.

00:47:26.960 And I don't believe that as far as, as far as human worth goes, women bring so much to

00:47:32.100 the table, so much to the equation.

00:47:33.500 We need women in society and culture, but we don't need them in these roles.

00:47:38.100 That's the reality of it.

00:47:39.860 And I, I would even suggest, and maybe you disagree with me, we don't need them in combat

00:47:43.720 roles, supportive roles.

00:47:45.020 Sure.

00:47:45.840 Absolutely.

00:47:46.960 I think there's incredible women who are incredibly nurturing, incredibly talented, incredibly

00:47:51.640 intelligent.

00:47:52.360 Do I need them breaking down doors in some foreign conflict?

00:47:55.880 Of course not.

00:47:57.180 Yeah.

00:47:57.420 I think only a, only a degenerate, weak, pacified society would even argue that case.

00:48:05.480 Yeah.

00:48:05.940 I'm with you, man.

00:48:06.660 And I think women have a place in everything in our lives, obviously.

00:48:11.580 It's nothing against women.

00:48:12.900 It's bringing the best possible performing highest quality person for the job, right?

00:48:22.460 And if your job is to drag a 200 pound plus man to safety, it probably is going to take

00:48:30.360 another man of that size and strength to do it, you know?

00:48:33.960 So the standards of what the best is, what is the best for the president and then higher

00:48:41.860 based on that, not higher because we need to fit a certain percentage of different people

00:48:47.520 and demographics into an agency.

00:48:50.200 It's, hey, it's the president of the United States.

00:48:53.640 Now, what does it take to protect him the best we can, right?

00:48:58.860 And there's variables.

00:49:00.080 Then you make sure all of those variables are matched by the people and the technology you

00:49:05.540 put around him.

00:49:06.380 And I think if you worked backwards, one, that's not discrimination, right?

00:49:11.700 That's just facts that you're adhering to and requirements that you're adhering to.

00:49:16.240 And the odds are it's going to be a bunch of linebackers that can carry a 200 mile man to the safety

00:49:25.340 of a vehicle or wherever, whatever the incident is, you know, it's, it's not rocket science.

00:49:30.260 And it used to be the standard.

00:49:32.420 It used to be okay.

00:49:34.140 Um, but as we've seen the last couple of years, it's become strange that different minorities

00:49:41.820 of our population have the biggest bullhorn and the majority have to sit here and go,

00:49:47.040 wow, I guess we got to, well, we got to go with this.

00:49:49.220 We just have to roll with this.

00:49:50.560 Like what happened to majority rules?

00:49:53.100 It just doesn't exist, which is the foundation of democracy.

00:49:56.860 So if the majority doesn't rule, then where's the democracy at?

00:50:04.140 Every breath I took was a performance.

00:50:08.240 And so I did not have the skills to be still and just accept my wife's love.

00:50:13.980 I didn't have the skills to be, let my daughter nuzzle up against me while I'm watching a show

00:50:18.840 and let her nervous system co-opt mine and just have a safe place.

00:50:24.100 I was an anxious, uh, nuclear reactor.

00:50:27.380 All right.

00:50:27.700 My chest was always hot.

00:50:29.860 And so my son did not have an anchor.

00:50:32.180 This is what men masculinity ultimately is a stillness, right?

00:50:37.600 It is a, I'm confident enough that I don't have to be electric all the time.

00:50:43.600 And I didn't know how to do that.

00:50:45.000 I didn't, I was a set of skills I had to practice.

00:50:47.660 And so I guess technically that's utilitarian, but I had to go learn how to do that.

00:50:51.740 I had to learn how to listen to my wife and not try to solve her problem.

00:50:55.440 She's smarter than me.

00:50:56.600 She's, she was Dr.

00:50:57.740 Deloney long before me.

00:50:58.660 I'll never be as smart as her.

00:51:00.360 She doesn't need me to solve her problems.

00:51:02.000 She needs me to be there and listen so that she can anchor in.

00:51:05.580 I didn't learn how to do that.

00:51:06.840 I didn't know how to listen to somebody without being like, oh yeah, you know what you need

00:51:09.800 to do?

00:51:10.360 And with guys, we do that all the time and we don't listen to each other.

00:51:12.940 So we just roll our eyes and like, oh, that guy's an idiot.

00:51:15.500 But I didn't know how to do that.

00:51:16.800 So it's, it was both.

00:51:18.040 And.

00:51:18.320 Well, I think what I'm hearing you say is that utilitarianism is the byproduct of, in

00:51:24.740 your case, just being confident and comfortable with who you are.

00:51:28.500 So it's not, it's not the means, which I think generally meant, and I've done this too, where

00:51:33.820 it's like, I got to provide, I got to fix the car.

00:51:36.840 I got to pay the mortgage.

00:51:38.060 I've got to do this.

00:51:38.960 I've got to do that.

00:51:39.440 And if I don't, then I'm not loved and I'm not appreciated.

00:51:41.460 I'm not respected.

00:51:42.140 So I just have to be, I have to be competent versus I think what you're saying is that

00:51:50.300 competence is just the byproduct of all the other work and that will come, but it's not

00:51:54.700 the goal in and of itself.

00:51:57.200 Yeah.

00:51:57.700 And now that I, we can all take our work home with us now that, um, we can all get side

00:52:03.740 hustles and we can work from home.

00:52:05.180 We can have three full-time jobs working from home.

00:52:07.720 If you want to get up at five in the clock in the morning, go to bed at midnight.

00:52:10.200 Um, but what it's become is it's become heroin.

00:52:14.180 It's become a numbing device that gives us an excuse to not plug in with our kids, with

00:52:20.640 our families, with our communities.

00:52:22.720 And so we do have to provide, we do have to have that terrifying question that I didn't

00:52:28.860 have a psychology for, which is like, there's a famous showdown my wife and I had in the garage

00:52:35.640 after my second book.

00:52:36.780 Like, like, she's like, John, we have enough.

00:52:39.760 And I remember yelling, like, as she walked out of the room, I remember like not yelling

00:52:44.080 at her, but yell like, what the hell's enough?

00:52:46.480 I didn't know what that, I didn't, I never even thought of that word.

00:52:48.800 Right.

00:52:49.760 And so there's this idea that we can work and work and work and tell ourselves, we're

00:52:53.820 just providing.

00:52:54.400 I got to, if not for me, there's going to be, that's true.

00:52:57.400 That's actually true.

00:52:58.200 And how often have I stayed at work till seven or eight o'clock?

00:53:02.880 Cause I just, oh man, it's just easier here, dude.

00:53:05.940 Yeah.

00:53:06.360 It's just easier here.

00:53:07.040 I don't want to throw the Frisbee with a seven year old and I don't want to get onto my son

00:53:11.300 because his pants are on backwards or whatever he's trying to do.

00:53:13.460 I don't, it's just, I can just, I'm just going to do another thing here and I can tell

00:53:17.180 myself it's cause I'm paying the bills.

00:53:18.520 Well, you know, to be fair about the book story and the infamous blow up or whatever

00:53:24.820 you had with your wife, books are a horrible, horrible strain on relationships.

00:53:30.020 So anybody who's out there and you could write the best stuff in the world, all the things

00:53:35.380 that you should do in a relationship and it will destroy your relationship if you let it.

00:53:39.360 The greatest gift you can give to your marriage is don't write a book.

00:53:42.240 Totally.

00:53:42.800 Just don't.

00:53:44.100 Amen.

00:53:44.540 Amen, dude.

00:53:45.340 Golly.

00:53:45.780 Um, one of the things that I've been learning, I haven't learned, but I've been learning

00:53:51.620 is just being able to say, I don't know, or I don't have an opinion or I don't care about

00:54:00.260 that is a superpower.

00:54:02.880 When you just said, I don't know.

00:54:04.580 The next thing you said, I don't have an opinion on that.

00:54:06.800 Ryan, I literally felt my shoulders go up around my ears.

00:54:09.440 I just felt it.

00:54:10.240 Right?

00:54:10.940 Yes.

00:54:11.260 That's exactly right.

00:54:12.980 Like, I don't know.

00:54:13.640 And I don't know where we got in our heads that our value is based on having some answer,

00:54:19.200 but that's the word.

00:54:21.100 I don't know, man, but it's a, it's false.

00:54:23.560 It's fake.

00:54:24.040 It's not real.

00:54:27.420 Pornography is kind of like alcohol in moderation.

00:54:30.020 It's not a big deal, but don't do too much of it.

00:54:32.100 And then there was the intimacy angle.

00:54:34.780 Pornography is a great way to spice things up in the bedroom.

00:54:37.620 And I think experientially it's been disproven.

00:54:40.200 I think enough people have experienced both and found out that porn is not really like

00:54:43.920 alcohol.

00:54:44.500 Porn is more like cocaine.

00:54:46.100 Even a little bit is really, really lethal.

00:54:48.140 And I think on the intimacy side of it, there's actually a lot of research now that has followed

00:54:54.080 couples for longer periods of time and shown, sure, within maybe a couple of weeks, you can

00:54:58.620 say that watching pornography spices things up in the bedroom.

00:55:02.140 But over longer periods of time, those couples all report lower rates of marital satisfaction

00:55:08.200 or relational satisfaction and sexual satisfaction.

00:55:10.760 So I think, I think we just needed a little bit more time on our side for people to realize

00:55:14.800 how devastating it actually is.

00:55:17.480 Well, you said, you said something interesting and I, and I think we ought to define these

00:55:21.400 couple of terms as well, because we said spice things up and then almost interchangeably

00:55:26.320 we said intimacy.

00:55:27.900 And I don't think those two are synonymous.

00:55:30.800 I don't, I don't think there's wrong, anything with wrong with either of them, by the way.

00:55:35.720 Yes.

00:55:36.120 You can bring spice into the life and into your, your sex life, but that doesn't automatically

00:55:41.520 equate to intimacy.

00:55:43.480 No, no, definitely not.

00:55:44.820 Okay.

00:55:45.140 Especially in this conversation, because if you think about what pornography conveys, it

00:55:50.040 conveys that intimacy is basically just getting your sexual desires and fantasies met.

00:55:56.260 It's all about you and it's mostly physical.

00:56:00.060 In fact, I would say pornography portrays that it's purely physical, which we know isn't true.

00:56:05.040 I think real intimacy, even in the bedroom, we all know anyone who's been married long

00:56:09.760 enough or has been in a sexual relationship long enough knows that real intimacy doesn't

00:56:14.140 actually start in the bedroom.

00:56:15.680 It starts, it starts outside.

00:56:17.340 It started three days ago when your wife was having a tough day.

00:56:20.020 And instead of trying to give her a solution, you were just there and you listened to her.

00:56:23.600 Like it starts way before that.

00:56:26.560 And I think, I think people miss that.

00:56:29.000 But I would say, especially our client base, when we're serving people who are struggling with

00:56:32.140 pornography addiction, this is an area, that's why self-awareness is where we have to start

00:56:35.980 because there's actually such a reduced capacity for empathy and some of those other things that

00:56:41.300 really drive intimacy that, you know, they, they're clueless.

00:56:44.680 They're, they're kind of clueless.

00:56:45.560 Like, oh, I didn't know I needed this to have good intimacy in my, in the bedroom and in my

00:56:49.380 marriage.

00:56:49.960 I just assumed that, you know, sex is physical.

00:56:51.960 That's what I've been taught.

00:56:52.800 I think the common knowledge is for nowadays, based on your work and everybody else who's

00:57:00.760 in this field trying to, you know, rally against the pornography industry is that it rewires

00:57:05.860 the brain and it makes you, as you said earlier, less empathetic, less caring, less understanding.

00:57:14.040 I think we all would agree with that, but I'm actually curious why that's the case.

00:57:19.160 Obviously you're objectifying a woman.

00:57:21.580 So there's that.

00:57:22.740 And then she becomes, I think Matt Walsh calls it a human masturbatory tool, which is a, you

00:57:29.660 know, a perfect description of it.

00:57:31.560 Yeah.

00:57:32.340 But why does it make you less, how does that happen?

00:57:35.820 If you're in a, let's say a 10 year committed relationship, how is it that pornography is

00:57:41.300 going to make you less empathetic or less able to connect with your, with your partner?

00:57:46.060 Yeah, it's a great question.

00:57:47.160 So I'm going to try not to geek out too hard on this, but I was a university researcher,

00:57:50.720 so I love digging into the neuroscience of this a little bit.

00:57:53.120 I'll keep you in check if I need to.

00:57:54.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:55.200 Keep me in place here.

00:57:56.540 So there's four major things that happen to the brain when you watch pornography.

00:58:00.820 The first is a reduced stress response.

00:58:04.320 So literally your capacity for stress is actually reduced when you're watching pornography.

00:58:08.980 And it kind of makes sense if you think about it, you're chasing immediate gratification,

00:58:13.280 instant rewards.

00:58:14.840 Stress requires a lot of resilience and long-term play.

00:58:17.060 You know, we can kind of see that.

00:58:18.680 The second thing actually plays into what you were just describing, which is it reduces

00:58:23.440 your prefrontal cortex activity.

00:58:26.260 So the prefrontal cortex is where you make good decisions, executive decision maker.

00:58:31.360 It also is where you house a lot of your capacity for meaningful connection and relationships.

00:58:37.040 And literally they can show that in the brain, you have less circulation to this part of your

00:58:41.420 brain.

00:58:41.920 And so you don't have the same capacity or function to relate to people human to human.

00:58:48.300 They become a lot more object to object.

00:58:50.560 In fact, there's some surveys or some studies that showed people who even masturbate chronically,

00:58:56.000 when you engage in this kind of compulsive sexual behavior, the same part of your brain

00:59:00.640 that is used when you're using a tool is the part that's active when you're engaging in

00:59:04.940 these activities.

00:59:05.760 So the idea is that the person on the screen or the act of masturbation is like a tool for

00:59:10.920 your brain.

00:59:11.580 But there's no personal connection.

00:59:13.800 There's no kind of human experience.

00:59:15.560 It's very transactional.

00:59:17.440 Very much so.

00:59:18.540 Yeah.

00:59:18.740 And really it makes us no different than the animals, right?

00:59:21.420 Like that's, that's kind of how they relate and transact.

00:59:23.840 So those two effects are really devastating.

00:59:26.100 But if someone's been watching pornography for a long time, which, you know, for me, I

00:59:29.580 was addicted for 15 years.

00:59:31.040 I really fell into the next two categories quite a bit.

00:59:34.280 So the third effect is desensitization and desensitization is, it's exactly what it sounds

00:59:40.980 like.

00:59:41.120 It's that you build up this tolerance and the things that used to give you that rush and that

00:59:45.480 release no longer cut it.

00:59:47.800 So you either need to watch more intensity or something new.

00:59:51.700 And this is why somebody can start off, you know, for me, I started off like downloading

00:59:55.700 stuff on Kazaa and LimeWire.

00:59:57.360 I don't know if you ever got into any of those services, right?

01:00:00.000 No.

01:00:00.360 These are like, you could download, you know, files that somebody would just throw up on

01:00:03.380 the internet.

01:00:03.900 And that's how I started to access pornography.

01:00:05.720 But it was relatively vanilla.

01:00:07.740 But as time went on, I started to watch more hardcore stuff.

01:00:11.680 And thankfully, I would say I got out of it before it spiraled into anything else.

01:00:16.220 But we've worked with our share of clients who have started to watch.

01:00:18.900 They watch gay porn, even though they're not gay.

01:00:21.180 But it's the novelty of it.

01:00:23.180 Or I mean, there's like, there's animal porn.

01:00:24.960 There's all kinds of obscurity on there.

01:00:26.920 And it'd be easy to judge and be like, well, who would ever do that?

01:00:29.640 But honestly, everyday people do that because their brains are getting so desensitized that

01:00:34.720 it's causing them to seek these things out just to get the same hit that they had when

01:00:38.380 they first started watching.

01:00:40.300 And then the fourth thing is-

01:00:41.560 It is interesting if I can say one thing on that.

01:00:43.620 Please.

01:00:43.900 I've actually heard that.

01:00:44.940 I don't know, obviously, to the degree that you do.

01:00:47.200 But I have heard that there are men who would consider themselves homosexuals who will actually,

01:00:55.820 I wouldn't say fault necessarily, but credit pornography use as a factor behind their sexual attraction.

01:01:05.480 Yeah, 100%.

01:01:07.300 And it's literally exactly this dynamic.

01:01:09.740 It's that they experience desensitization and they start to look for something new, something

01:01:14.580 different.

01:01:15.080 They find gay porn and then they experience arousal from it because all pornography has

01:01:20.200 an arousing component and it doesn't necessarily say anything about your orientation.

01:01:24.800 But if you don't know that and you say, well, I found this way more interesting than all

01:01:28.220 that vanilla porn I used to watch.

01:01:30.020 Maybe I am gay.

01:01:30.720 Like you start to go down this path and start to kind of draw some conclusions or try to

01:01:34.680 reconcile why this is arousing for you when something else that should be normal and heterosexual

01:01:39.800 isn't.

01:01:43.120 The thing that I have found in all of this and in life is authentic communication and

01:01:50.680 being able to find a way to express who you are as a man without shame or guilt or suppression

01:01:56.020 or repression, right?

01:01:57.020 And, you know, there's a lot of things that we as men need to work through in order to

01:02:01.760 get to a place where you can confidently and comfortably share and ask and inquire like

01:02:06.540 and say, hey, here are the things that I desire, right?

01:02:09.420 When does a woman ever ask, like, what is it that you desire, right?

01:02:13.020 And so really tapping into that as men saying, huh, what is it that I want?

01:02:19.040 What is it that turns me on?

01:02:20.820 What is it that I might light up from that I haven't experienced before?

01:02:24.380 And so getting to the place where you've moved past some of that, you know, suppression,

01:02:29.040 repression, the trauma that you had growing up as a man, right?

01:02:32.060 And then moving into a place where I am comfortable sharing, expressing who it is that I am because

01:02:39.740 I'm comfortable with myself.

01:02:40.980 I've invested enough in myself and I'm confident enough in myself that rejection isn't going

01:02:45.960 to take me away from who I am because I'm authentic in this.

01:02:48.840 I'm a man who loves X, Y, Z.

01:02:50.380 I have a client of mine and he's a successful business guy and there's another part of him

01:02:55.620 and he, you know, he's into swinging and he's into eroticism and he's into all sorts

01:03:01.620 of other things.

01:03:02.740 And he was having a shift.

01:03:04.260 He was having a crisis internally because he's like, how can I be this stand-up good guy,

01:03:08.880 you know, everyone looks up to in this way?

01:03:10.840 And yet he had this religious thing that was keeping him from, hey, I actually really like

01:03:14.940 this part.

01:03:15.500 I enjoy these sexual experiences, you know, and so it's about A, being comfortable with

01:03:21.960 the fact like you have to own all of yourself.

01:03:24.200 You have to own, you know, the lust, the greed, the sexual deviance because that's what makes

01:03:28.300 us human, you know, it's okay because we're here and we have to be here for it.

01:03:32.980 And if you can own that stuff and then come from, again, a heart-centered place where you're

01:03:37.060 communicating with someone like, I actually really love this and I would love to try this

01:03:41.920 and is this okay with you, right?

01:03:43.980 And having those conversations, I think earlier on in a partnership, as scary as that might

01:03:51.400 sound, can be helpful because if you go five years without ever expressing your desires

01:03:56.720 and your needs in a sexual sense, that's going to be maybe even really much harder to then

01:04:02.520 have that conversation.

01:04:03.300 It's like, oh, by the way, I like this and this and this, you know, and the partners would

01:04:06.460 be like, whoa, well, you never mentioned this before.

01:04:09.480 Like, it would have been nice, right?

01:04:11.460 It would have been nice if you had said like, hey, by the way, so I think there's a fine

01:04:15.300 line of, you know, again, and you can make it a fun game, right?

01:04:20.100 You know, ask ChatGPT, list 50 kinks or ask Google, like, what are 50 kinks?

01:04:24.960 You put them on a piece of paper and you go through and you say, oh, like, this is a yes,

01:04:28.640 no, maybe, or it's a green, red, yellow, right?

01:04:31.000 Of like green means go, yellow means maybe, and red means stop.

01:04:33.980 And then having that conversation, you know, earlier on and also saying like, hey, sexuality

01:04:40.120 is part of us.

01:04:41.080 It's who we are and we all have different desires and not shaming the other partner or

01:04:45.940 making them feel badly for what it is that they might like because that's the key.

01:04:50.020 Because again, as you said, whatever kind of reaction you're going to have is going to

01:04:54.360 create the next reaction to that partner.

01:04:56.280 So you just have to have an open mind, but not be afraid to express who you are and then

01:05:01.880 find a partner that's really into that, right?

01:05:04.040 And that's the key.

01:05:05.160 So you want to find someone who's actually in alignment.

01:05:06.740 So you're not with someone, but you're just like, and then you're going to seek it outside

01:05:09.580 your partnership because you haven't been able to express it to your partner.

01:05:12.220 And that's not good either.

01:05:13.280 You know, you don't want that.

01:05:14.800 So it's all about men leveling up in our communication and ownership of who we are and saying, hey,

01:05:21.980 it's okay.

01:05:22.580 I'm going to own every aspect of me and then putting that energy out on the world.

01:05:27.340 And then you're going to attract someone who is going to be open-minded for that.

01:05:32.120 In its simplest terms, obviously, in theory, it's a lot easier to say than in practice.

01:05:37.140 There we go, gentlemen.

01:05:38.300 Highlights from 2024.

01:05:40.120 I hope you enjoyed some of the best moments.

01:05:42.100 Obviously, there was a lot more moments than just that.

01:05:45.300 And we had some incredible guests on over 2024.

01:05:49.060 And we have big, big plans to bring on even better guests.

01:05:52.900 And some of the same guests that are fan favorites in 2025.

01:05:57.040 We're going to have some really deep and meaningful conversations that are going to help you drive

01:06:02.080 the needle forward when it comes to improving your life.

01:06:06.320 So if you would, just make sure to check out some of these past episodes.

01:06:09.460 Maybe you heard something and you thought, you know, I'd like to know more about that.

01:06:12.640 Go back, type in order of man and type in the guest name and it'll pop right up for you.

01:06:19.060 Make sure you subscribe if you're not subscribed.

01:06:21.220 So you don't miss any of these types of conversations we're having.

01:06:24.260 And then while you're there, please on Spotify and on Apple podcasts, if you would just leave

01:06:29.700 a rating and review, I know it might not seem like much.

01:06:32.840 I know you might think, oh, that's not a big deal.

01:06:34.700 It's just one review.

01:06:35.760 What could it mean?

01:06:37.020 But if we have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of men who actually listen to this

01:06:40.900 podcast going in, leaving their ratings and reviews, we're going to see a lot of visibility

01:06:46.080 for other men who need to hear this message.

01:06:49.860 And I think if we have important things to share, then we do have a responsibility to

01:06:54.660 share it.

01:06:55.280 And I would love to see my neighbors, friends, colleagues, coworkers improve themselves as

01:06:59.200 a man.

01:06:59.600 As it said, a rising tide lifts all boats.

01:07:03.040 So leave a rating and review.

01:07:04.560 And then of course, subscribe over on your podcast player of choice or YouTube.

01:07:09.700 If you want to catch the videos or connect with me on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook

01:07:16.160 at Ryan Mickler.

01:07:18.700 All right, guys, those are your marching orders.

01:07:20.620 We'll be back for our regularly scheduled interviews next week.

01:07:23.980 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:07:31.640 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:07:34.560 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:07:38.340 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - January 07, 2025

Recapping the Best Moments of 2024

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