Return to Masculinity ｜ ELLIOTT HULSE
Episode Stats
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Summary
In this episode, Elliot Hulse joins us to talk about why boys and men need to be initiated, the importance of the patriarchy, and why we need to return to masculinity in a society that seems to have diluted the idea of masculinity.
Transcript
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With regards to being a man, it seems to me that society has watered down and diluted the
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definition of masculinity. And although we may not consciously realize it, the shift from capable
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man, strong, bold, courageous, proficient to something else entirely has impacted the way
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we show up in our lives. Today, I'm joined by the one and only Elliot Hulse to talk about that
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societal shift and how it has influenced our thoughts and actions. We talk about why boys
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and men need to be initiated, the importance of the patriarchy, how hierarchies serve men
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effectively, and why we need to return to masculinity.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not
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easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.
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This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder
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of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you today. Whether you're
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listening in for the first time or you've been with us for just over four years now, this is a place
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where we have conversations, critical conversations, with regards to what it means to be a man and how we
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can more fully show up as fathers, husbands, business owners, community leaders, coaches,
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teachers, and every other area and facet of life that we're showing up as. And to that end,
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we're having these powerful conversations with my guest today, Elliot Hulse, but we've had other men
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on the show, high achieving men, successful men like Jocko Willink, Grant Cardone, Andy Frisilla,
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Tim Kennedy, David Goggins, and the list just goes on and on with regards to who we've had on the show.
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We also have a Ask Me Anything show, which is released tomorrow, every Wednesday, where Kip Sorensen,
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my co-host and I field questions from our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council, and also from our
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Facebook group, which by the way, if you're not in the Facebook group, I would definitely encourage
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you to get there. We've got over 55,000 men in the group, and you can find that at facebook.com
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slash groups slash order of man. And also we've got our Friday field notes, which is just me
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and some ramblings and thoughts from throughout the week. So we've got a lot, and I hope that you
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subscribe if you haven't already. And also please leave us a rating and review because that goes a
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long way in promoting the work that we're doing here. And of course, gaining traction and visibility
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for this critical mission of reclaiming masculinity in a society that seems to be dismissing it a little
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bit, maybe not even a little bit, maybe a lot of it. It's my job to reclaim that idea of traditional
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masculinity and help you as men step more fully into it. So with that said, we'll get into the
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conversation here in just a minute. I do have two very quick announcements. Actually, we'll just do
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one announcement. We'll just do one announcement right now. I'll do another one a little bit later.
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All right. Again, origin, Maine.com use the code order at checkout. That is all. That's all I have
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for announcements. Now let's get into the conversation. I've been really, really looking
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forward to this one, actually probably for years. And we finally made it happen. I am joined today
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by a man that a lot of, you know, his name is Elliot Hulse. And I've been following Elliot for
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some time now, but after dozens and dozens of requests to get him on this podcast, I reached out
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and I made it happen. He's a strength and conditioning coach and built up much of his
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reputation by teaching other people how to develop physical strength. But his idea of strength goes
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so much deeper than that and covers not only the physical, but mental and emotional components as
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well. But lately he's been talking a lot about the demise of masculinity. And it seems like our
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thoughts and ideas are very much in alignment and how we as men can reclaim and become more masculine
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and how it would serve us well to do it. I knew this one would be interesting and unique to what
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we've done in the past. And I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation and get a lot
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from it, which based on how it went, I think will be one of many more conversations. Sit back guys,
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relax, get a notepad out if you need to, and enjoy my conversation with Elliot.
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Elliot, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the Order of Man podcast.
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I think this has been just destined to happen. It's been a long time in the works,
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whether we knew it or not. Absolutely. I agree.
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And I told you this as well, is that as I let the guys know on Instagram that I was going to
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have you on the show and we're going to have a conversation, the guys were excited. I got a lot
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of good feedback. I think what you're doing is a good thing, man. I'm excited to have this
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conversation and really hash out this idea of what it means to be a man in modern times.
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Yeah, it's super important. I'm glad to be alive at this time where we get to do this work,
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Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. In fact, that's a word that we use as well,
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it's really restoring what it means to be a man in a society that seems to be dismissing
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Your message has seemed to maybe shift a little bit or just be refined a little bit more,
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I think, over the past little while from mostly strength to now embracing this holistic idea
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of masculinity. And even within fitness, you've gone from bodybuilding to, I think,
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what looks like and sounds like an entirely new approach to that. Why the shifts with these
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If you notice, I started my first YouTube channel in 2007. So I came out when YouTube first came out.
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And of course, my focus was on strength and fitness because it's my career. I'm a strength coach. I
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played football. I was always into fitness. My uncle was a personal trainer before it was a thing. So
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it's what I did. It's my ministry in the world. But there was always a lot more brewing underneath.
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I've always been a deeply spiritual and religious man. I started reading Ralph Waldo Emerson and the
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Bible and poetry and all this. I was introduced to Lao Tzu when I was in high school. But I didn't
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bring them to the world as my insertion point, if you would say. My career, like I say, the thing that
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I did in the world was teach men how to be strong. And that's physical first. In 2013, when my channel
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was just starting to get some traction, starting to grow really rapidly, I began a second channel.
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And that second channel, I called it Elliot Said What? Because I gave myself permission to talk about
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all of the other things that really were the undercurrent for the things that I spoke about
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in fitness. And if you notice, even my fitness, the way I would answer questions, which was part of my
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popularity, was I never answered questions straightforward when it came to lifting or
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fitness. I always took like a philosophical bend on it. I like when you said the word refined,
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because I've always been this way. But just in these last few years, I've really sharpened that
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sword of dealing with men in particular, but not just mentoring to the bodies of men, but to the
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souls of men. And I knew for a very long time that that's really what I've been put here for,
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to make men strong, yes, physically, but also metaphysically.
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Why do you think the shift now, does this come with a level of confidence on your part? Does it
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come with something that you see in society? Because you could have started from the beginning
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with this. So why make, I don't want to say pivot, but refining this way of communicating
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and talking about things on a deeper level rather than just physical strength? What's with the timing,
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I guess I would say? Well, because I had a lot of wounds to heal before I went into this
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phase of my ministry. Lifting came supernatural. I was born strong. And so for me to put myself out
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in the world as a strong man and teach people how to be strong, it's like I already did that maybe in
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a previous lifetime. It's very easy for me to be a warrior. But this path of the priest that I'm also
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called to, there were some things inside that I needed to resolve first. I needed to be the strong
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man on the inside and I had some weaknesses that needed to be exposed to myself and then dealt
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with before I was prepared to go full on in the direction I'm going now.
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Well, I commend you for that, first of all, because I think there's too many people out there who
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pretend that there's something they're not. What type of work do you feel like you needed to do to
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expose your own weaknesses and really explore that path?
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I spoke exactly to this, to a young man that hired me for coaching yesterday. And quite frankly,
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I had to deal with my inner beta, that feminized, weak, sick, sad boy that's traumatized and confused
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on the inside. Again, you know, to show someone how to lift when you know how to lift is pretty cool.
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But to lift someone else's soul up, my soul needed to be lifted first. Because I knew that this was a part
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of my path. And I knew that healing was essential for this part of my path. When I reached the height
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of my popularity in YouTube as a strong man, I was called to go inward and I stopped making YouTube
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videos. People thought I was crazy. I was like, how does this guy reach a million subscribers
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and stop? You know, it came on for a myriad of different reasons. I like to say the body is the
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mind. And so what's reflected in the physical is what's happening in the metaphysical. And I
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started having a lot of physical injuries, but it also gave me the opportunity to step away
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and to go into a catabasis of sorts, go into the tunnel where I could begin working on those things.
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How did you recognize that there was this, the term you used was inner beta? Because I think a lot of
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the times we put ourselves into these boxes and we don't even really realize that we're acting or
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behaving a certain way. And we also don't realize that there's an alternate way to act that might
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actually serve us better. How did you come to that realization? I guess I would say that I was
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stunted in my growth in this lifetime in relationship to women, to the feminine. It's
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interesting because I married my high school girlfriend, basically the first woman I had sex
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with. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. So I discovered the barbell and I started having sex at the same time.
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So as far as girls were concerned for me, I was done. Right. I didn't need to learn anything else
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about them. I wasn't, it was like, okay, I've got my girlfriend, so I'm having sex. I was grateful
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because I was able to excel in my business and in my career and with my body and all the things that
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I love because I didn't dissipate my energy trying to meet women and busting nuts all over the place.
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So it was an advantage, but at the same time to be a mentor to men means you've got to have the
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empathy and the knowledge to deal with them in the type of pains that they're going to experience.
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And I didn't have those experiences for a myriad of different reasons, but just the mere fact was
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I didn't deal with intersexual dynamics. And so I never needed to confront my inner beta in that way.
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I had to heal a lot of things. That was one that was super important for me on the surface,
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meaning like actually be able to minister and speak to men in that way. This past year has been
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the toughest for me because I had to confront a lot of that stuff since April of last year to now,
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but has also been the most enlightening. And this is where I've found you. I started looking at what
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are men talking about? And I discovered the manosphere. I didn't know this existed. I discovered
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Red Pill and Rolo Tomasi's book, The Rational Male. All these things were just like added to me at the
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last moment to arm me with, okay, exactly the language and the tools I need to now bring my
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experience and the value thereof, because I've got quite a bit of value when it comes to women,
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but not in the same way that men are hankering and needing it in this moment.
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Yeah, that's a great point. I think there is a lot of desperation that comes across in a lot of men.
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I definitely want to address that. The Red Pill, Rolo, Meg Tao, we'll get to all that stuff.
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One of the things that I thought about as you were talking about marrying your high school sweetheart
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is, did you feel like there was a sense of complacency in that you didn't have to pursue
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women or there wasn't anything from a sexual pursuit that was driving you to excel? Do you
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feel like that at all or something else entirely? It was a lot of things. You put it well when you
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said complacency. When it comes to sex, it's like an itch that needs to be scratched. And I had someone
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scratched my itch. She's a great woman. And that's why she's my wife to this day. But that itch was
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easily scratched and I became complacent. But also too, and this was exposed to me in different ways
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in my life. And then I had to confront it when it related to women. I was afraid of rejection.
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I didn't like rejection. I don't like being told no. I don't like being told I can. So when it came to
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women, it was like I muster up all kinds of courage for all kinds of other things that has done great
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things in my life. But I never had to confront how you would say aversion to a rejection in terms of
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women. And I suffered as a result of it in other areas. How do you deal with that? Because I can't
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imagine that you just said, well, I'm going to go step out on my wife and sleep around and ask a bunch
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of women on dates and expose myself to this fear. How do you begin to address that in an appropriate
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way, I guess you'd say? Well, number one, I would say that that colored the essence of my
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catabasis or healing process. But really, it began with confronting my own inner wounded feminine,
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as a Jungian would say, my anima. And that took on a lot of different weird, I say weird,
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but you know, nothing's off limits when it comes to the soul. A lot of weird things that I had to
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confront and do and see about myself, as it related to the relationship I had with my own
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inner lover. And during this phase, I did all kinds of strange things. Like I, man, I didn't smoke weed
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in high school, in college. When I came into this phase, I ended up smoking weed, a lot of it and
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doing yoga. I was a professional strongman. Here I am smoking weed. You can't do yoga.
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Are you kidding me? Dude, I was a pro strongman, like, tough guy to the teeth. And I quit all that,
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became a vegetarian, started smoking weed and doing yoga. I mean, feminine as fuck.
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I can see in retrospect, I had the wherewithal at the time to give myself space to do that.
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But I was really healing parts of my inner wounded feminine that needed to be dealt with. And that
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was in the depths of the water. As I started coming to the surface, I began to realize my
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inappropriate relationship to women, and I'm not talking about sex, my wife, I'm committed to my
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wife, but I have three daughters. I have a mother. We deal with women out in the world in a, in these
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very strange times. And I began to realize that I had an inappropriate relationship to women.
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women. The way that looks is how most men are taught to behave towards women and think of women.
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When I came across red pill, I discovered how wrong it was and how backwards it was. And I needed to
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repent. So how would you describe your relationship to women prior to some of these changes that you've
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implemented in your life? Well, I'll use one that all men can relate to. Most men can relate to.
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And it begins with the inappropriate relationship to mommy that we have in the West. There is an
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inappropriate continuation of the relationship with mother beyond the age of teenage adolescence.
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Are you talking about continuing that relationship with your mother? Or are you talking about trying
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to make your wife your new mother? Ah, well, that's a great point. I love that question. Because
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that's what a lot of us do. We end up projecting our mommy issues on our wives. And I saw myself doing
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a whole lot of it. So the big part of the reason why most men can't have healthy relationships with
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women is because of the inappropriate bond with their mother that's still there. Whether you hate
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your mom or you're a super mama's boy and mama tells you what to do, even though you're 40 years old.
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In all cultures that retained a process which I am committed to bringing back and that I am bringing
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back, it's a part of my ministry here, is the rites of passage and initiation for men into different
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phases of their life, particularly going from boyhood to manhood. And a critical, I would say,
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the foundational aspect of the rites of passage of masculinity, of being a man,
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is what Robert Bly describes in Iron John as moving away from the world of the mother and
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atonement with the father. It's more than just an idea. It has to take on a drama. It has to be
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acted out symbolically. Otherwise, it doesn't carry any weight. And if elders and the men and the
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patriarchs aren't doing it, we end up doing it in a pseudo way as teenagers and stuff. And it's usually
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unhealthy and it doesn't really create that separation. But what that would typically look
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like is, you know, boy starts acting like a man, starts feeling himself. Parents, tribe, elders
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recognize, okay, it's time. Women and men, not just the men, but the women understood, okay, it's time to
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cut the apron strings. And so they would enact a drama where the men would come in with masks and
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strip the boy away from his mother. And instantly that would reveal his inner beta, his little inner
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mama's boy, because he's going to start kicking and screaming, even though he's 14 years old.
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Oh, no, ma'am. These men are taking me away. The mother would act along in a drama. But it was
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critical for him to go through that pain, just like a birthing pain, to be cut away from his mother
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and being taken out of the society for a time. He needs to be set apart for a time, almost like a
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boot camp. You can't be in society. You can't be with your mommy. She can't know where you are right
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now. And you can't have contact with her while this process is going on. And so in that separation
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from mother where, you know, I could stop there, but it then creates space for atonement with the
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world of the father, which is a whole nother story. Well, I'm actually interested in exploring
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that because you've talked about your desire and need to repent. You're talking about the atonement
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to the father. So walk me through that a little bit. I imagine that has a lot to do with transitioning
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into a man to recognize the strength that men who have gone before possess and then striving to be
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like that to some degree. Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. It shows up in a myriad of different ways.
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There are a few elements that are always present. Number one is that physical separation.
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Is that the drama that you're referring to? The drama? Yeah. But the getting away from
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meaning like you got to get out of here. Like the physical severing of that tie.
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Yeah. You can't be near your mom. You can't call her and tell her you're all right.
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Yeah. I mean, that just becomes a crutch at that point, right?
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Right. You got to get this kid out of here. Okay.
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And so another part of that is austerity. There was always some form of physical pain. So fasting,
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which I think is amazing. Being fed is being a consumer. Anything that consumes is feminine.
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The feminine is a dark hole that absorbs and it consumes like a vagina. So all consumption needs
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to be stopped. So anything comfortable, you know, your favorite drinks, well, food in general,
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but anything that you were taking for comfort. So there's an austerity measure. The comfort of
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mommy's not here. You're going to sleep on the floor. Like for example, my younger brother had
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the blessing of being ritually initiated by Native Americans. And one of the things they had him do
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on this partly a vision quest was of course he fasted, but they found a rock somewhere in the
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wilderness and made him sit on it, just a stone. And they drew a circle around the stone and told
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him, you cannot move from this stone. You must stay here. He had to stay there for three days.
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So talk about austerity. There's an austerity. There's a challenge. You need to get uncomfortable
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for a moment. What is the ultimate objective? Like if somebody's working towards this and we can talk
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about what that might look like for a grown man, but what is the ultimate objective of engaging in
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this type of activity or initiation or ritual? Well, you've got to die to your old self. It's a
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humbling process. You know, the word humble also has a root word of humiliation. And so it's the death
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of an ego. You thought you were this. You think you're so fucking tough. You think you belong,
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but guess what? No. Can you do this? And so it's called a rite of passage because if you can't
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handle this, if you can't suffer this austerity, well, then you don't get to come back as a man.
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You just, that's it. You either stay out here or you're a shame to yourself and to your tribe.
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You've got to go through this death process and the men would create an opportunity for him to die
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to his ego, through this pain. But with that death is a opportunity. And only then is there an
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opportunity for a rebirth, a new meaning for yourself, a new identity for yourself and a new
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path for your life when you return to your mother or to the civilization. I talked about return to the
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father or atonement with the father. Well, of course it's atonement with the physical father.
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It's the men, the men in the tribe. There needs to be a level of trust and understanding for survival
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and for a myriad of different reasons, but the men needed to come together as men and were different
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than the women. And here's why. And it's that why and the how that was important. And one of the
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things with the father would instill in the boy is the sense of belonging to a long lineage of
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fathers. It's so befitting in the movie Lion King when the young lion cub is in the wilderness. So
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symbolic. He's lost his father, but the elder finds him, the old monkey, and brings him up to the
00:24:03.520
mountaintop and points to the sky and says, look, you've got a responsibility here, kid, and you're not
00:24:08.920
alone. You owe it to yourself. You owe it to your tribe. But look, you owe it to all of the fathers
00:24:14.780
that came before you, your father, your grandfather, your great, great grandfather. And it's so funny
00:24:20.960
because, you know, these are spiritual ideas. Those fathers are long gone. They are ancestors. And all
00:24:28.220
that resides, all that's left is their pattern, which is where the word paternity comes from. You are a
00:24:36.820
physical expression of that eternal pattern or father paternity. So there is a deep sense of
00:24:45.160
belonging, a deep sense of meaning, and a renewed sense of responsibility. Oftentimes with a new name,
00:24:54.680
they would come back with a new look, you know, sometimes a scar or a tattoo. You're no longer even
00:25:02.520
recognizable or recognized as that childish version of yourself. You're new and you not only come with
00:25:09.280
your newness, but you bring the strength of the fathers. I mean, this is really powerful. I could
00:25:14.220
geek out on this stuff all day long. I'm sure you could as well. I also think about the patriarch,
00:25:18.540
which has that root word pattern, right? This seems to be shifting as well culturally is that that is
00:25:23.660
somehow inherently bad or wrong. But I think, man, without the patriarchy, without the fathers and the
00:25:29.540
grandfathers and the men who have gone before, we won't know what kind of men to pattern. And we're
00:25:34.020
left with this masculine energy that we frankly just don't know how to harness. And then it ends up
00:25:39.940
manifesting itself in destructive ways rather than constructive ways, which is what our fathers should
00:25:45.540
be teaching us. Yes. That's where we are today. So how does a guy who maybe never had either a formal
00:25:52.880
rite of passage or ritual like you're talking about, or even informal to some degree,
00:25:57.580
because I think about competitive sports that has a sense of ritual and patterns and rites of
00:26:02.960
passages. I think about the military also has things that are very, very similar. How does a man who
00:26:08.600
hasn't experienced any of that now who might be 40, 45, 50 years old, begin to create some of that for
00:26:15.000
himself in a way? And then even how does he pass that on to his sons? Very good question. And it's a
00:26:22.920
shame that with the secularization of the Western world and our rejection of ritual, sacred space,
00:26:30.980
and ceremony, we threw out religion and we threw out these rites of passage. With all of our cleverness
00:26:39.440
and scientificness, these things that our ancestors understood, these rituals that our ancestors
00:26:45.980
understood were super necessary for civilization just got thrown away and turned into pseudo-initiation.
00:26:55.140
So of course, you know, military or a fraternity, drinking buddies, shows up in gangs. It shows up with
00:27:04.040
these ridiculous affiliations with sports teams or an over-identification with politics. Inappropriate
00:27:11.960
relationship to what I'm just going to call beta religion. I'm not saying all Christianity,
00:27:17.400
but a lot of what we see in the West is a watered-down, feminized, beta version of the
00:27:22.400
original church. Well, I definitely think that's why we see enrollment numbers for men declining in
00:27:28.620
religious institutions is because it is overly feminized. And frankly, no man wants to be preached
00:27:33.740
at. He wants to engage in something that's meaningful and significant. And to your point earlier,
00:27:39.280
has an element of suffering and pain involved as well.
00:27:43.080
Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. It's fascinating. Recently, I've been really interested in Orthodox Christianity.
00:27:49.280
And Eastern Orthodox is the original church. This is where the original followers of Christ came
00:27:55.060
together in order to perpetuate his message. And theirs is a religion, from what I understand,
00:28:00.860
that theirs is a religion that is not separate from the body. To be a religious man is to endure
00:28:07.020
austerities. I mean, they fast a lot. Right now, it's Lent. You know, people do all kinds of BS for
00:28:13.000
Lent. Oh, yeah, I gave up soda for Lent. I'm like, yeah.
00:28:17.500
Congratulations. Something you shouldn't have been consuming anyways.
00:28:20.420
Right. I don't get it. Well, you know, how about, like, I just finished a 10-day water fast.
00:28:26.880
They would just stop eating. And then they would spend all their days praying. So,
00:28:32.160
there's this sense of stripping one's ego self down and committing oneself to physical prayer. Physical
00:28:40.340
prayer is fasting. You know, I'm so fascinated to read this in a book. I just read this this morning
00:28:45.660
anyway. And we see prayer so much as a metaphysical thing. You sit there and you think about God. Or we
00:28:54.340
see oftentimes these really eloquent guys who get up and they love to show their eloquence through how
00:28:59.080
great they pray. And everybody thinks, oh, wow, that's so cool what they do. Well, the way our
00:29:03.460
ancestors would pray or Christian ancestors would pray is you get down on your knees, first of all.
00:29:09.240
There's no prayer unless you are physically bended knee. And if you look at the Muslims, they do this
00:29:14.760
great. They get down and they put their head on the ground. It is a physical prayer. You've got to feel
00:29:21.660
the prayer. That's masculine prayer, meaning it's very embodied. It's a doing. The warrior quality,
00:29:29.920
very masculine, is about doing something. So, it's a doing spirituality.
00:29:35.260
Can I give another perspective on that? And I'd be really interested in your thoughts here because
00:29:39.220
you say that it's masculine. And yet, I think, and I think a lot of people would look at this from the
00:29:44.260
outside. I'm not saying if they knew it intimately, but from the outside would look at the
00:29:48.400
act of submitting yourself to a higher authority is not masculine at all. How would you respond to
00:29:54.940
that? It is the most masculine thing. One of the things that is very different between men and women
00:30:00.500
is that I said this the other day on a post and people didn't understand it. It's a concept,
00:30:04.820
but women work in circles. The circle is almost like the vagina is a circle and women have sewing
00:30:11.460
circles. Men work in lines. We work in a, like if you think about the penis or the phallic symbol,
00:30:20.220
or even like the many phallic symbols in our country, like the national monument. It's a hierarchy.
00:30:25.780
There's a totem pole. There's below and then there's above. And it has to be that way in order
00:30:31.940
for us because as men, we are a clean slate and require a pattern. We require a mentor. We require
00:30:40.980
something to look up to. Because if we're looking down or we're looking left and right, we're looking
00:30:46.260
at the sensual world. We're looking at the Maya. You know, it's interesting. The cross is a symbol
00:30:52.540
that represents the masculine and the feminine in that the vertical is the connection between the
00:30:59.680
earthly self, the lowly self, the down self, the heavy self, and the light self, the enlightened
00:31:07.700
self, the God self, the patterned self. So that's movement upwards is masculine. I mean, it sounds
00:31:14.980
funny saying these things, but like the penis moves upwards. It ejaculates upwards. Men are, we work in
00:31:22.180
hierarchies. Women or that lateral line is about the lateral world we live in. We live on a flat,
00:31:30.700
yeah, I'm going to say we live on a flat world, flat earth, although maybe we do.
00:31:33.740
I don't know, man. We may have to have an entirely different conversation if we go down that path.
00:31:39.940
But you know, what's indicative of the flatness of the world that we live in that sets men apart
00:31:45.140
is that most animals or quadrupeds, their spines are aligned with the earth. Only man goes vertical.
00:31:54.820
And so earth has always been associated with femininity. You know, I like to say that because
00:31:59.900
pattern is paternity, well, matter is maternity. So the world of matter, which the Hindus would call
00:32:06.740
the Maya, is the lateral world. And so to acknowledge a higher power is to acknowledge
00:32:14.100
your masculinity. Women don't create religion. There's not a single religion that was created
00:32:20.020
by a woman because their religion is earth. Women are attracted to things like Wicca and paganism
00:32:26.220
because it's earthbound, it's earthly, it's sensual, it's intuitive, but not men. Our religions,
00:32:33.620
be it Abrahamic or Hindu or Taoist, are upward. We look to the heavens, we look to the skies and
00:32:41.940
the cosmos and the patterns. But wouldn't you say that women also have these aspirational
00:32:47.180
goals and ambitions? And if so, is that then them tapping into their masculinity? Because we all possess
00:32:53.800
varying degrees of energy, whether it's masculine or feminine, right?
00:32:57.340
Yes, absolutely. It's so interesting because bowing down is a physical leveling of oneself,
00:33:05.460
which is, we could say feminine, but it has a very spiritual gesture to it. So you are doing a
00:33:11.820
feminine thing, but it's a spiritual gesture. And in the same way, it can go vice versa. So yes,
00:33:17.880
women have a, as a neo-jungian would say, an inner animas. Another way that a Jungian would say is that
00:33:24.580
inside every man is a woman and inside every woman is a man. We're different as different can be on the
00:33:32.120
physical plane. But when you rise above into the metaphysical, we're all one thing. To live in 3D
00:33:39.640
is to live in separation. And we can't transcend separation as long as we have flesh. So this
00:33:46.040
whole idea that men and women are the same is stupid when you live in a body. But when you transcend,
00:33:51.900
this is why a lot of, you'll see depictions of Jesus where he almost looks feminine. And the
00:33:57.260
Hindus do this really well. You know, you look at like Krishna and Shiva, you know, a lot of these
00:34:01.660
guys, they look like women. In the spiritual world, we transcend the, you know, penis and vagina.
00:34:09.920
So what do you feel then is the danger in attempting to make men and women the same? And I think there's
00:34:16.660
a very clear agenda to make that a reality. We live in a physical world that is guided by
00:34:23.680
metaphysical truths, right? And to walk in physical truth is to honor metaphysical truth. And physical
00:34:32.560
truth can't be transcended just because it's a good idea. So for example, you could say that you're a
00:34:40.040
spiritual being. And a lot of people take it to the degree that I'm a spiritual being. But if I take
00:34:45.480
a sledgehammer to your foot, you're going to fucking cry. No doubt. We're spiritual, which
00:34:50.580
means we're light. And being light means that we're as light as air. Light travels through air.
00:34:55.780
Don't try to jump out of a building. You're transcending physical laws. You live here,
00:35:01.100
dude. And so as long as we live here, and I got a penis, and you got a vagina, I'm a man. And I live
00:35:08.900
as a man, I behave as a man, I operate as a man, I think like a man, and you're woo man.
00:35:17.900
Man, let me just hit the pause button real quick. It has been said that the only thing constant
00:35:22.140
is change. And if you're anything like me, change is not easy for you.
00:35:26.780
Even if we know it'll be good for us, it seems that most men resist change. But if it's inevitable,
00:35:31.800
and in a lot of ways, constructive in our lives, we need to understand how to deal with it,
00:35:36.480
and how to actually embrace it in our lives. And that's why inside of our exclusive brotherhood,
00:35:41.320
the Iron Council, we're talking all about change and how to harness it for a force of good in our
00:35:46.760
lives and in the lives of those we have a responsibility for. We're going to be breaking
00:35:51.060
it down weekly with understanding the nature of our relationship with change, how to take action
00:35:56.660
when we are faced with an evolving set of circumstances, and how to effectively lead the
00:36:01.860
people that we care about through that change. So if you're ready to learn how to embrace change in
00:36:06.400
your life and have some powerful discussions about it and be challenged to take deliberate
00:36:10.760
and intentional action towards growing and evolving, then I invite you to band with us
00:36:16.380
inside of our brotherhood, the Iron Council. If you head to orderofman.com slash Iron Council,
00:36:21.900
you can learn more and lock in your spot and your seat at the table. Again, orderofman.com
00:36:27.180
slash Iron Council. Do that after the show. For now, let me get back to the conversation with Elliot.
00:36:31.900
It is fascinating to me that both men and women attempt to change reality when if they just step
00:36:40.180
more fully into what reality was, as opposed to trying to change it, I think they'd find some real
00:36:46.540
power in stepping fully into what it means to be a man and conversely, stepping fully into what it
00:36:52.140
means to be a woman. It's just more powerful way to operate. It's the natural state, I believe.
00:36:56.320
It's the only place. That's where our power resides. And that's why there's this evil agenda
00:37:03.480
to destroy it, is to destroy our power. The core of our physical power is sexual. And we're clearly
00:37:11.860
living at the end times. The pendulum has swung as far as it possibly can because we are trying to,
00:37:19.680
I don't say we are, but there's an agenda to ursup God's power on this planet by corrupting
00:37:26.420
the sexes. It's the fundamental basic building blocks of God's kingdom on earth.
00:37:35.620
I believe there are evil entities at work in our physical world. Yes.
00:37:42.460
And then how does it manifest itself in the physical world? And I say it too,
00:37:46.100
I'm guilty of it as well. I say society or they, but I think it's important we identify
00:37:51.460
who quote unquote society is and who they are. Well, it depends on who you ask. There are those
00:38:00.100
who they describe as the Illuminati and secret societies. I've learned a lot about Zionism.
00:38:09.360
I mean, it really depends on who you ask and what their agenda is. There's a lot of evidence pointing
00:38:14.800
to various factions or groups of people. Some would even say that they are not actually people,
00:38:22.460
that they're extraterrestrials. People would use terms like reptilians and things like that.
00:38:27.900
So I'm not going there saying that that's what it is, but there are people, there are physical
00:38:34.340
entities that are guided by metaphysical forces that are evil or dark in nature. And they're here
00:38:41.840
and we see them and they're strong and they're powerful and they want nothing more than to destroy
00:38:47.520
us and earth of our power. Just like, you know, in the matrix, they use our sexual energy to fuel
00:38:53.840
their greed and their fear and their ambitions. And so there is a hierarchy on earth. There are those
00:39:01.000
who are in power. There are those who have been disempowered. I can get kind of weird in a lot of
00:39:07.100
these things, but it's worth looking into and considering nothing's off the table for me.
00:39:11.640
Well, that's why I want to have this conversation because frankly, we've never had a conversation
00:39:16.060
like this. And I knew that by having you come in and have this type of conversation, we would get
00:39:21.940
a unique perspective that would at a minimum cause people to think differently about what it is that we
00:39:28.560
see and how we're interacting. Yeah. And like I said, nothing's off the table. And that's why I'm
00:39:33.880
willing to explore. And one of the things that I found in my exploration is this idea. We have
00:39:40.060
a portion of DNA, a very small portion that scientists understand how it works, certain
00:39:45.500
chromosomes. They're like, okay, we know how this works. And then there's something like 60 or 80%
00:39:52.460
of it that they just don't know what it does. And they call it junk DNA. There's this concept that I've
00:39:59.240
come across in my studies that indicate that our, we have been physically changed. Our DNA has been
00:40:05.820
shut off. Parts of our ability to make contact with our higher intelligent have been physically
00:40:12.160
thwarted. And we have been genetically modified to be disempowered, to be robotic, to be slaves,
00:40:19.260
to be easily manipulated. A lot of this is coming forth in terms of our capacity to tap into our
00:40:26.600
intuition through our pineal gland. And we know for a fact that we're being poisoned. And a lot of
00:40:33.680
what is in our food and our environment, we're clearly designed with the intent to destroy our,
00:40:43.220
what in many religions call your third eye, your intuitive eye. So I'm talking about the physical
00:40:49.440
degradation of the human species or the manipulation and degradation of the human species,
00:40:54.640
because we're being degraded by the foods we eat. They're spraying all kinds of shit in the sky.
00:41:00.200
Our water is polluted. So we're being shut down. If you imagine a finely tuned Ferrari or, you know,
00:41:07.980
a machine, and you start taking out important parts of it, or you take out some of the software
00:41:14.000
that it needs to operate well, you start dumping junk in it, that machine's not going to operate really
00:41:19.060
well. And being the open system, much more than just a machine, a human being, we then become
00:41:27.060
susceptible to all kinds of manipulation in very insidious ways.
00:41:35.340
So as you've then explored this path, and maybe even to a degree, implemented a lot of this stuff
00:41:41.100
into your life, in clearing up these systems and avoiding the poisons that you're talking about,
00:41:46.700
and how has your life changed? What do you feel like you've accessed or opened up? Or how have you
00:41:56.200
I'll go back as far as being a child. My parents are from Belize, which is in Central America. My dad
00:42:04.700
basically grew up in the jungle barefoot. He had no formal education. He ate off the land. So I come from
00:42:11.700
very pure stock in that way. Both of my parents are very hardy people. They're very strong.
00:42:17.440
They grew up with fresh air and clean water. And so coming from parents of that nature and stock and
00:42:25.040
experience into America, where things are very different, not just physically, the foods that we eat, air
00:42:30.900
that we breathe, but the psychosocial manipulation and conditioning that's associated. My dad didn't go to
00:42:36.400
school. He did not go to school. He didn't go to grade school. Nobody told him what to do. Nobody told him
00:42:40.920
sit down and how to behave. My dad knows how to be who he is. And he's the most alpha man I know
00:42:46.580
by the law of the jungle, by just being out there.
00:42:51.740
No, which is interesting also too. He had lots of older brothers and he grew up around like a band
00:42:57.540
of boys. It was like, you ever see that movie or read the book Lord of the Flies?
00:43:01.040
Lord of the Flies, man. I was just going to say that. You learn pretty quickly, right? What's
00:43:05.920
He had a dad and his dad is a good man. It was a good man, but he had 12 children and
00:43:12.540
in order to be able to feed his children, he worked as a logger. So he drove a truck
00:43:18.880
and was never, ever, ever home. He'd come home, have sex with his wife. She'd pop out
00:43:25.460
It was just the way it was. You didn't know he even had a dad until he was 14 years old,
00:43:29.520
but it didn't seem to be an issue because he grew up around a band of boys with lots
00:43:34.700
of older men and it was okay. And whatever he needed to learn, he learned through experience
00:43:39.320
and he was not beta-fied at all because he didn't go to a school system where there was
00:43:44.380
no beta conditioning. And his mother was, she was like a cow. She made babies, fed them
00:43:51.480
and got them out of the way so she could make another one. So there was no like deep, dark,
00:43:56.480
weird, Freudian relationship with his parents. The Oedipal complex, he didn't have that shit
00:44:03.400
because he didn't grow up with a mommy doting over him and a beta dad or like many of the
00:44:09.120
dads that we have here. So coming from that and then going into a school system and the
00:44:14.240
point that I wanted to get to was that they began medicating me almost immediately. I have
00:44:20.320
a lot of energy, I have a lot of vitality, and it was just too much for my school teachers
00:44:25.140
to handle. My mother, my parents doing the best that they thought they knew how to do
00:44:30.500
coming to America and, you know, wanting the best for their children.
00:44:36.380
And they put me on Ritalin and on medication. You know, when you ask like, what have I done
00:44:41.540
or, you know, choices I've made in my life to purge myself of a lot of this deep conditioning,
00:44:49.380
I, from the very beginning, you know, when my mother started taking me to the quote unquote
00:44:53.580
doctor to find out, well, is there something wrong with my son? Because the teachers keep
00:44:57.920
complaining about him. They put me on medication. I grew a deep seated resentment towards the
00:45:05.320
medical profession and to medical authority. So from very early on in my career, I rejected
00:45:14.020
all doctors and medication. In fact, like anybody wearing a white coat, anybody offering that kind
00:45:21.180
of like establishment advice. So I became very anti-establishment very early on and started
00:45:27.140
rejecting anything that smelled like establishment.
00:45:30.860
Yeah, I can see why that would be the case. What would you say would have been the more
00:45:34.900
appropriate response to your energy and vitality as a child?
00:45:40.520
I think school, contemporary, compulsory public education is inhumane.
00:45:46.440
And what I would have liked to have done is grown up like my dad in the jungle.
00:45:52.980
Yeah. King of the boys. My gifts are physical and vitality. And so I did really well in phys ed.
00:46:00.380
And I'm not regretful. I'm just, you know, you're bringing up these hypotheticals. So I'm having fun
00:46:06.960
Well, and I think it's a great way to think about how we might raise our children. That's why I bring that
00:46:12.360
Yeah. And one of the things boys is known, that's the difference between boys and girls.
00:46:17.460
Girls learn by talking. You can talk to a girl and they'll learn. They're receptive,
00:46:24.020
like a vagina. I'd always imagine, and I say that the sex organs tell you a lot about the character
00:46:30.820
Oh, I believe that. I mean, receiving and giving and everything else. I subscribe to that as well.
00:46:35.100
Yeah. The vagina is passive. It receives, it takes in. The penis is active. It must be stimulated
00:46:42.020
and it moves outward. It's a doing organ. So boys need to do stuff to learn properly.
00:46:50.320
School systems and, you know, modes of education for boys have to be physical. They got to be
00:46:55.700
outdoors. You got to be working with your hands.
00:46:58.260
This makes sense. I mean, I see it. I've got four kids, you know, I've got three boys and a girl and
00:47:02.400
it's not socially constructed the way they behave. They're all slightly different, of course,
00:47:06.660
but generally speaking, my boys are rougher. They're louder. They have a tendency of being
00:47:11.080
more destructive. My second son, the other day, he came home with a cut above his eye. I said,
00:47:16.020
what happened? He's like, oh, I got hit with a rock. And I'm like, well, how'd that happen?
00:47:19.280
He's like, oh, we were having a rock fight. Yeah, that'll do it. And my daughter naturally
00:47:24.900
is playing house. And she asked if I'd build her a dollhouse with her bed on top of it,
00:47:29.660
which I did. And she wants to make the home and take the resources, right? And turn that into
00:47:34.100
something that we can utilize. That's what she does. I didn't teach her that. And I didn't teach
00:47:38.200
my boys to go out and have a rock fight. And yet that's what they do. Amazing.
00:47:42.240
I want to pivot and shift gears. I know we're maybe bumping up against time a little bit,
00:47:46.600
and this has taken a different turn in this conversation, but I think it's been valuable.
00:47:49.620
I just know we're going to have to have parts like B and C, and we can do those down the road if
00:47:53.960
you're willing to do that. But I do want to pivot and switch gears and talk about something you brought
00:47:59.000
up earlier, which is the red pill movement. You didn't say MGTOW, but talk about that as well,
00:48:04.300
ROLO, of course. I'd like to get your perspective on that, where you see that fitting in, maybe some
00:48:09.000
of the pros, if you see cons in that, and just really explore that conversation.
00:48:13.740
Oh, man. I think it's amazing. I first heard of MGTOW along with NOFAP basically a year ago
00:48:20.740
is when a lot of this stuff came across my screen. And it was, of course, came from questions that
00:48:27.060
were being asked by the young men who follow me on YouTube and look up to me. And when I looked into
00:48:32.460
it, it resonated with me immediately. Now, mind you, I'm not judging the concepts by the people
00:48:39.660
who practice them or promote them. People have all kinds of judgments about the guys in MGTOW,
00:48:45.300
which, you know, I think a lot of them are great.
00:48:47.900
And we all interpret information differently, right? And some of this ultimately can be taken
00:48:52.220
to the extreme. And I've certainly seen that. I've seen elements of it that are valuable. And
00:48:56.640
I've seen other elements that are, quite frankly, I believe destructive, but it's all in how it's
00:49:03.620
All I needed to do is hear the term men going their own way for the green light or the flag to
00:49:12.200
go off in my mind and say, yes, this is appropriate. This is exactly what's needed. Because it reminded me
00:49:17.700
of the fact that in order for a man to be a man, he must go his own way. He must be separate from
00:49:25.420
his environment, like I spoke about in terms of initiation. No man will be initiated into manhood
00:49:32.740
until he goes his own way. He must go his own way. And so, you know, we're approaching,
00:49:39.380
I like to believe, is the pendulum beginning to swing back the other way. So you're going to start
00:49:44.420
seeing these kinds of movements. The very first step in initiation for an individual man is for
00:49:51.160
him to go his own way. He has to go his own way. And I see MGTOW as the first step in the initiation
00:49:57.920
of the collective masculine to be initiated into the new patriarchy or the mature masculine by men going
00:50:07.200
their own way. So it's absolutely 100% appropriate.
00:50:10.520
So you bring up an interesting point because you said that's the first step. Then that alludes to
00:50:15.000
the fact that there's another step to it. Because ultimately, if we just said men going their own
00:50:20.220
way and ended it there, it would be difficult for guys like you and I to reconcile the fact that
00:50:24.840
we're married and at times turn to our feminine partners for support or mutually beneficial
00:50:31.720
relationships. So what is that second step or that next step after you go your own way?
00:50:36.320
Everything in life, all anabolic processes and you know, people who follow me are into lifting.
00:50:41.960
So I use it this way. You're going to build muscle, you're going to get huge, you got to break down,
00:50:46.840
but then the obvious next part of the cycle is build up. We've got to disintegrate before we
00:50:52.920
integrate. Life always works that way because it's a spiral. I said before that it's feminine to go in
00:50:59.000
circles. Well, life works in circles, but it's also masculine to move forward and a spiral moves forward.
00:51:04.140
So I see life as a spiraling forward. And so there are phases and you'll see this in every aspect of
00:51:10.540
life from, you know, the anabolic and catabolic cycle to the cycles of the sun and moon of breakdown
00:51:16.840
or moving away from or destruction and then rebuilding. It is only natural, normal and natural
00:51:25.240
and appropriate that once there's a disintegration or a movement away from there, then is a concomitant
00:51:32.500
moving towards. But just like the spiral, it's not coming back in the same way. It is an evolving,
00:51:41.680
moving, ascending spiral back to the woman. In a long-winded way, that answers my question.
00:51:48.900
The answer to your question is, yeah, we do need to move away. But then the reaction to that is we
00:51:55.380
This is interesting. I've never really considered it like this, but as you're talking about this and
00:52:00.320
the guys who listen to the podcast are well aware of my separation nearly 10 years ago with my wife,
00:52:05.940
and I felt like that was in a way me going my own way and discovering for myself and my own power how
00:52:13.540
to stand on my own two feet. But I couldn't do that with her and I couldn't do that if my mother was
00:52:18.140
around. I had to do that for myself. And now that you're speaking about this as a spiral, I'm
00:52:22.960
considering my own situation. And yes, we reconciled and we came back together, but I came
00:52:29.340
back a completely different man, somebody who was more capable, more sure of himself,
00:52:37.640
more ready and mature to be in that relationship and eventually to be able to serve better,
00:52:45.040
right? To grow together and to serve her and to serve my kids and do it in a way that's
00:52:49.720
significant for everybody involved. That's an interesting thought. I'd never considered it
00:52:54.460
Very cool. Well, Elliot, I know we're bumping up against time here, man. I want to be respectful
00:52:58.420
of the time that I committed to you and talked about, but I'm really interested in this idea of
00:53:04.020
healing your wounded feminine. So maybe we can address that. And the idea of the inner lover as well,
00:53:10.060
because we're taught that we need to love others, right? As we would love ourselves. And I think what a lot
00:53:15.660
of people overlook is the fact that that actually alludes to the fact that we need to love ourselves
00:53:19.900
and fix ourselves and be confident in who we are. I think most people think that's about serving
00:53:24.840
other people. I think there's an element of that, but it's also about serving yourself.
00:53:28.900
But I think that could be another conversation that we could really, really have something powerful
00:53:35.240
Well, cool. Well, hey, man, as we wind down, let me ask you a couple of additional questions. And we've
00:53:39.200
been dancing around the first one here for a while now, but what does it mean to be a man?
00:53:42.920
I talked about the rites of passage, of initiation. I think it's significant that our ancestors
00:53:49.200
understood that there needed to be a breaking down of and a cleaning of the slate in order for a new
00:53:55.940
pattern to emerge in a man. And it may sound strange for me to say this, but I see men as a clean slate.
00:54:03.420
Masculinity is an opportunity. And whether or not we're inscribed upon consciously, unconsciously,
00:54:10.600
with malice or with honor, it's the mere fact that a man is potential, is a clean slate that
00:54:18.280
makes him a man. A woman's nature is inscribed upon her. A man's nature needs to be taught.
00:54:26.000
I agree. I mean, I think that's a big part, Elliot, of what you're doing, teaching men. I think that's
00:54:30.880
a big part of what we're doing here. And it's always fascinating to me when I hear guys say things
00:54:35.780
like, a real man doesn't care about what another man says or doesn't need another man to tell him
00:54:40.640
how to be a man. And I just think to myself, that is the furthest thing from the truth.
00:54:45.040
A real man needs to learn how to be a real man from another real man who has some of these things
00:54:51.940
Very cool, man. Well, Elliot, how do we connect with you? I know you've got grounding camp coming up here
00:54:56.220
in the near future. You've got so many other things going on. How can the guys find out more about
00:55:00.880
you and connect with you? Well, as far as grounding camp is concerned, this is my attempt,
00:55:06.740
and we're doing it, to reestablish the initiation process, the ritual initiation process that all men
00:55:15.020
go through at various stages in their life. The only thing is that if it's not honored,
00:55:20.760
it often ends up looking like a crisis, either a crisis of self when a boy is becoming a man and
00:55:26.680
doesn't know how, doesn't even know that it's happening. Or when a man's going from adulthood
00:55:31.840
into middle adulthood, we're constantly being initiated. Life is initiating us into new phases.
00:55:38.500
And with each phase, there is a requirement for honoring that person during that phase. There's
00:55:45.440
also a requirement for a separation for that person to have time and space in order for them
00:55:51.680
to go through that process. So separate ourselves from the world, we go out into the wilderness,
00:55:58.400
we have time away from the world. And then there's a process. And I mentioned austerity,
00:56:03.060
there's challenge in grounding camp, you're physically, emotionally and mentally challenged.
00:56:08.660
And then finally, what Mercier Eliade would describe as communitas, where this is all available
00:56:15.680
only in the community of other men. So what we have is a powerful community of men growing stronger
00:56:22.640
together in this way. And I've been doing grounding camp since 2016. I do it about three or four times
00:56:28.360
a year. And this year, we have one coming up in June. If anybody's interested in learning more about
00:56:33.240
that and wanting to attend, it is groundingcamp.com. And then if you're just interested in things that I
00:56:39.940
like to talk about, which being a fan of Ryan's podcast here, you clearly are, you'd love to
00:56:45.740
subscribe to my YouTube channel, Elliot Hulse, our strength camp, and also my Instagram at Elliot
00:56:52.680
Right on, man. We'll sync it all up. I know that you and I are very much in alignment. I think that we
00:56:58.140
diverge in some ways in some places, which is why I wanted to have this conversation. But I think
00:57:03.180
overall, our mission and our purpose is very much in alignment. And man, just so excited to be able to
00:57:08.940
have this conversation. And I really appreciate you taking some time to share some of this in a
00:57:13.700
way that quite honestly, I didn't expect it to go, but I think it was very, very powerful.
00:57:19.120
And I think it's a conversation that frankly, we just haven't had on the podcast before. So I
00:57:25.960
Great. And I appreciate you for doing the work that you're doing, man. Keep up the awesome work.
00:57:31.420
Gentlemen, there it is. My conversation with the one and only Elliot Hulse. I told you this one was
00:57:35.320
going to be interesting. I told you it's different than we've done in the past. And I hope you
00:57:38.520
enjoyed the conversation. Maybe you agreed with it. Maybe you agreed with some of it. Maybe you
00:57:42.060
didn't agree with any of it, but either way, this conversation is sure to spark some additional
00:57:46.920
conversation and some additional thoughts into what it means to be a man. And I thought that was
00:57:51.960
the reason we should do it is that we should open ourselves up to new ideas and insights and
00:57:56.980
perspectives that we may not have considered in the past. So guys, I would encourage you to connect
00:58:01.620
with Elliot, connect with me on, both of us are very, very active on Instagram. I'm at Ryan
00:58:07.440
Michler and you can find Elliot at Elliot Hulse. Connect with us there, connect with us on Twitter
00:58:13.200
and wherever we're doing the social media thing and wherever you are on social media and let us
00:58:18.440
know, let us know what you thought about the show. Let us know what you'll be implementing in your life
00:58:21.760
based on the conversation that we had. We always love getting that feedback and hearing from you
00:58:26.020
about what you enjoyed about the conversation. So that's it guys. That's all I've got. Remember
00:58:30.840
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00:58:35.700
Also remember if you're wanting to learn how to embrace change a little more effectively,
00:58:40.400
then head to order of man.com slash iron council. So that's it guys. That's all I've got for you
00:58:46.460
today. I hope you enjoyed again, the conversation today. I appreciate you being on this journey. We
00:58:50.860
couldn't do it without you. And it's amazing to continue to see the download numbers, continue to
00:58:55.240
see you guys connecting with me on Instagram and Twitter and everywhere else. We're doing the social
00:58:59.340
media thing. It's nice to know that this movement is growing. It needs to grow. It needs to expand.
00:59:04.900
It needs to reach more men because I honestly, and truly believe that the more men that we reach,
00:59:10.100
the better off society will be. So I appreciate you doing your part by sharing, by subscribing,
00:59:15.400
and also by leaving a rating and review. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you until tomorrow
00:59:21.080
for our ask me anything, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.
00:59:27.240
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
00:59:31.900
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