Revisiting Your Vision, Reclaiming Your Sovereignty, and The Power of Disruption ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
On this episode of the Iron Council, we have a special guest, Joe Rogan! We discuss how to deal with a mid-season slump, how to get over it, and what to do when life knocks you down.
Transcript
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the mid-season slump, first stop calling it that because you're just placing the expectation that
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this is just how it goes. So don't, first and foremost, don't do that. It doesn't have to be
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how it goes. And you're talking about weathering the days. What does weathering the days mean?
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Maybe the answer is try something new, go on an adventure, pick up a new hobby, go, go play,
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go, go on a trip, take your family somewhere crazy, do something a little wild. So the answer
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is not weathering it. The answer is embracing it, enjoying it, living it fully.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not
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easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.
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This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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Kip, what's up, man? Hey, are you ever going to come home, or are you just going to just,
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have you just took up residency in Hawaii at this point?
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Kind of both. Going to church, getting invited to hang out with people.
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Integration is happening, so we may have dug ourselves too deep.
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Well, it's not bad, though. I mean, if you're going to be somewhere, and you got to be stuck
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somewhere and integrate somewhere, I mean, I can't think of a better place than the islands
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of Hawaii, so it's not a bad place. Everybody else is like, oh, those are rough problems to have.
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Yeah, totally. You know, it is one of the few places where I can vacation this long, though.
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We've had this conversation. Usually about four or five days in, I'm like, all right,
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time to go back home. This is a little bit different, but.
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Well, I'm going to Alaska later this week. I've never been to Alaska, so I'll be up there for about
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a week, so I'm very excited about that. Get some deep sea fishing in, get some sightseeing in,
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hang out with good people, so we're looking forward to having a good time up there.
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I'm excited. Excited to see your pictures that you post, dude, and hear how it went,
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because Alaska, I've never been. It's on my list, so.
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It's going to be the first time, so. Well, good, man. Well, I've got a little bit of a time crunch
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today, so if we can, let's just jump right into questions from the Iron Council.
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All right. Sounds great. All right. Chris Henningsen, in regards to your post the other day
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about being a guest on podcasts, if you could choose five other podcasts to be a guest on,
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Oh, yeah. Five. Let me think about five. Obviously, Joe Rogan. I mean, that's kind of a throwaway
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answer. That's like saying, what is the best book of all time, and you say something other
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than the Bible. People are like, what about the Bible? It's like, okay. Barring the Bible,
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okay? We all know that's the answer. That's not what I'm asking. So Joe Rogan is the Bible
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of podcasts, I guess, is what I'm saying. Sean Ryan, I think, would be another great show.
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So John Lovell would be a good show. Yeah, I'm going to have to think a little bit more about
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what would be in the top. I've been on Andy Frisella's show a couple of times, MFCEO,
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or I was MFCEO. That one's obviously really good. I think the reason I'd want to be on those shows
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is not only do I really enjoy those guys' messaging and also their ability to podcast well.
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That's one thing that I think is such an underrated skill. Most people seem to believe that
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podcasting is easy, and you jump on a call, get behind a mic, in front of a camera, and go.
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Guys like Joe Rogan, Sean Ryan, they make the conversations look easy. I mean, so easy and
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seamless. And that's something that people ought to be aware of. If people are asking you for advice
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over and over again on certain things, it's because they recognize a talent in you. Don't ever discount
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that. Because a lot of people, what they'll do is they'll write it off. They'll say, oh, no, no, no,
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that's not a big deal. It is a big deal. You don't think it's a big deal because you have an aptitude
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for it, but it is a big deal. And usually people who are talented dismiss the talents they have
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because they think everybody can do it. Another one I think would be good is somebody like Tim Poole
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or Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, breaking into that political arena a little bit more. Matt Walsh,
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I would say, is not so politically driven as much as it's culture commentary, which obviously
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has a lot of overlap with politics. But those would be my five or six. And again, I think it has
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to do with the caliber of the interviewer and the conversations we've had and also the reach,
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frankly. You know, it's important that we expand our reach, broaden our reach, get this message out
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to the masses. And that's the most effective and efficient way to do it when you have and can get
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in front of a large audience. And it's also an audience of qualified people. And this is a this
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is an important thing to know when it comes to sales, for example. And I'm trying to think about
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this through the lens of not only this answer, but how my answer might help other people. When you have
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a product to sell, whether it's something like Order of Man and the mission and the movement, and you
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have a message you want to get out there, or you have a widget or a gidget or a gizmo or whatever it
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might be. You want to get that not only in front of people, you want to get that in front of the
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right people, the people that have a desire to purchase or own or have that product. So it's not all
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about the numbers. The numbers are important. But more importantly, are you getting in front of qualified
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people who are interested in your message or your product or your service?
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Got it. Got it. Who's your favorite? Who's the top two that you the podcast that you've been on that
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you're like, that was fun. Like, forget reach and business that you just enjoyed. And you're
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like, that was a blast. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, you know, I really, gosh, that's tough. I've done
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I've done so many and so many people have been on my podcast, I would say probably Andy Frisilla
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was really good. Andy's such a solid human being in real life. He really is. He truly is. And so to
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be able to sit down with him was a real honor. I've actually been on a show twice was a real honor and
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just a really cool opportunity to be on. I don't know that I've been I think I've yeah, I have been
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on John Lovell's show Warrior Poet. And he's as solid as they come. And he's hilarious. Like his humor is
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hilarious. But he's brilliant. I mean, he's super intelligent. So being on with him another one that
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media come comes to mind that I haven't been on that's been on mine a couple of times is Jason
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Wilson. He wrote the book The Man the Moment Demands. Not that it was like the funnest episode ever, but
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it was really impactful for me. Just because the caliber of human being that he is Tim Tebow was a
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highlight for me. So man, over the past 10 years, there have been so many that are amazing. Yeah, that's
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great. All right, Jeremy Kofi or coffee. What was the first car you owned? And how long did you keep
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it? First car? Yeah, the first car I ever owned was a 79 Plymouth champ. And it was awesome. It was
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black in the interior was just impeccable. It was tan with white and black vertical stripes up the
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ceiling down the chairs. It was amazing. And we in high school, we affectionately referred to it as
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the Panty Raider. I don't know that it ever lived up to its name. But that's what we called it.
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Anyways. I love that car, man. It was just such a fun little car.
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Well, I have to say this because people are just going to think this the Panty Raider is this awesome
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car. A Plymouth champ, just to be really clear, is like a two door hatchback, like crappy small mom's
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car. Like I literally, I think I rolled, I rolled a Plymouth champ with buddies just for fun.
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It's hilarious. It was a great little car. We bought it for 600 bucks. When I was a sophomore in high
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school, I think, I think the first year out of college, if I remember out of high school, I ended up,
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it was right before basic training and I ended up throwing a rod and just blew it up. And then I
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sold it to a friend who was going to fix it and then he didn't. And then I think I bought it back
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from him not long after and I didn't do anything with it. And then I sold it again, maybe back to
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him or another friend and nothing ever really came of it after that. I have no idea where it's at,
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but if I could buy that car today, I would totally buy that car today. And I would drive that thing
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around as a daily driver. It was such a rad little car. So that was my first car, 79 Plymouth champ.
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And it is, it looks like the Murph mobile. It's, it's not a, what is that? A gremlin or something?
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It's not a gremlin, but it, but it looks a lot like the Murph mobile. Yeah. Oh man, that's so funny.
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This is such a fun question. Um, 74 Chevy love rusted out for floor pan. So like if it rained,
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your feet would get wet and I had, and I had four inch lowering blocks on, on my, on my Chevy love.
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So it was like a mini pickup. I'm looking at this right now. This is awesome. The Chevy love. Yeah.
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I've never seen it. I love, I bought it for 500 bucks from my sister. Here's the funny part. And then
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this is, this is like classic rural Utah. I think I bought it when I was 14 and I drove it when I was
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14, like to Panguitch to the grocery store. Like I use that car. I never registered it. I don't think
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it's ever been registered ever or insured, but it was a daily commuter for me, uh, before I was 16
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for, for a number of years. Sounds about right. Super hilarious. I love that. That's one of the
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best things about small Utah towns and it's a little different now, but there's still small towns,
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Perlin, Fillmore, South, you know, South severe. Um, a lot of these small towns that are really cool.
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But, um, I remember one of the funny things with my vehicle is I always parked on a hill wherever I
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could find a hill. I always parked on a hill just in case I couldn't turn it over, which was pretty
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common that I would literally, so I'd park it on a hill and I'd steer it. If it couldn't, wouldn't
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start, I'd steer it out into the road and I'd get out and I'd hold open the driver's side door and I'd
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push with one hand on the door and one hand on the steering wheel. And as soon as I got a little bit
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of speed, I'd jump in and pop the clutch and it worked every time. So if you don't know what a
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Murph mobile is and you don't know about what popping a clutch is where we're dating ourselves
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at this point, but man, I had some good memories. Sounds like you did too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man.
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Such a, I would buy that truck again too. Just, just for the, I don't know, the memory of it.
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Nostalgia of it. Yeah, for sure. All right. That's funny. Okay. What's next?
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Yep. Ty, Ty Sherwood revisiting our vision and battle plans this week. Here's my question. How
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often have you changed yours? Looking back, how, how much of you stayed true to your original, uh,
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plan? You know, I really think it depends on what type of vision you draft up because there's values
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based and there's goals based. And I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. I think
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it's what's going to drive you to achieving results in your life. So if it's value-based,
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it's how are you going to show up as a man? So the value-based components of my vision have not
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changed all that much, which makes sense. Those are the values and the principles that I ascribe to.
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And the way I might implement those values in my day-to-day life may change depending on my
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personal circumstances, but whether I'm in this job or another job or relationship or not a relationship
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at this stage of my life or that stage of my life, the principles, because their principles
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and values should pretty much stay the same. Uh, there might be new things that pop up. You know,
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I think about, uh, a man having a child, for example, your values are going to change when you have
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children. Uh, that's a completely new dynamic to your life. You're so much more responsible for
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somebody else now. And so there's a, that's, that's something that might change some of your value
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system and your beliefs. But as far as goals-based, uh, and, and I have both infused into my vision
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and guys, by the way, it's so crucial that you have vision. I mean, I, I talk with men every day
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who are lost and floundering and struggling and no purpose and no direction. It's because they haven't
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really spent any time thinking about what they want out of their life. And I think a big part of the
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reason for that is they don't give themselves the margin to do it. They're so inundated with work
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and other responsibilities and duties and obligations, and a lot of them very noble and
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righteous. But if you're not carving out time every day to think about what do I want life to
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look like? What do I want today to look like? Let alone, what do I want the next five years to look
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like? So vision and thinking about what I want for the future, um, in myself, in my relationships,
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in my personal health and development is crucial. I do that every single day. Uh, but yeah,
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the goals will change as, as life changes. I wouldn't say they change on a quarterly basis
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because the goals are more long-term, the amount of prosperity and abundance I want to build,
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the types of relationships I want to have with a woman, with my children, the type of business I
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want to create. So they're more long-term. Um, so that doesn't really change that much, but if life
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circumstances change, so for example, three years ago, I went through a divorce, that's going to change
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some things. Um, if I were to shut down order of man or sell it or exit in some way, which I'm not
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planning on doing, I want to throw that out there, then that's going to change some of the goals that
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I have. So life events are going to change or a death of a loved one, um, or a job loss or a
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bankruptcy, things that could potentially arise or positive things too. Like you get a promotion or you
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move your, your, your kids and your wife across the country, positive things will change some of that
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goal-based vision as well. Uh, but I wouldn't be so flippant about just changing it every quarter
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or just tweaking it every week. It's like, okay, hold on. This should be projecting out into the
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future. The rest of the battle plan is what for that quarterly stuff that you have going on that
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may change more frequently. Yeah. Would you say that the standard mistake that probably most men make
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is pivoting too quickly, right? And, and making adjustments too quickly, not giving it enough time.
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Yeah, I think, I think that's true. Um, and I've seen a lot of people throw in the towel on certain
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things. And I think in a lot of cases they're deceiving themselves because they're saying, well,
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it's not no longer important to me or my priorities have changed. And more often than not, I don't think
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it's that I think that it became difficult or they lost interest or motivation or became monotonous.
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And so it was no longer interesting and sexy and fun. So they throw in the towel, but they know
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that's not a good reason to throw in the towel. So they default back to, well, it just wasn't, I didn't
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care about it anymore. So really give yourself some time. And if you are considering changing
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something, deliberately changing a part of your vision or some of your objectives, ask yourself,
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is it that I truly am no longer interested in this or it's no longer relevant in my life?
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Or is it just because it's challenging harder and more difficult at this stage in my life?
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And that goes with anything. Imagine playing a video game and I don't play many video games,
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but when I was younger, I played video games and the levels progressively got harder. And when you're
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on level one to get to level two, it's pretty easy. And then you get from two to three, still pretty
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easy and quick three to four easy, but more challenging four to five. Okay. It's now I've
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got to put some work in. And then when you're on level 10, 20, 30, 40, the amount of time that it
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takes to get from level 39 to 40 might be the same amount of time it took you to get from level one
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to 30. And that's the way life goes as well. If I go to the gym for the first time in 10 years,
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I'm going to start seeing results really, really quickly. I'm going to eat right. I'm going to feel
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my body correctly. Energy is going to go up. I'm going to start seeing lines and muscle definition
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that wasn't there. And that's going to happen within a matter of months. But there's a phenomenon
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called the law of diminishing returns. So the longer that I go, the returns will still be there,
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but they'll take longer to see and they'll be much smaller than they were initially. And that's where
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people get hung up is they, now it's a grind. You're not seeing progress as much. It's not coming as
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easy. You feel like you've plateaued and you may have, so you need to pivot different things to
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make yourself better. That's where a lot of people throw in the towel and they say, well,
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I'm not interested anymore. No, it just got harder and you weren't seeing the results that you wanted
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to see. And that is why I'm rambling at this point, but that is why it's so important that you wrap up
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your identity, not in the results that you achieve, but the measures that you take. So if you say to
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yourself, man, my goal is to be 10% body fat and to have 20 inch biceps and do physique contests and
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competitions or strength training or whatever it might be, those are good ambitions. I'm not saying
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they're not good things to aim towards, but what if it takes you longer than you thought? Or what if
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you get injured? Or what if something happens with the family and you have to put training off for a
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while? Now, all of a sudden that could completely derail you. And not only that, make you feel way
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less about yourself. So I think the greater strategy is just to say, hey, I'm going to live as a healthy
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individual. Sure. Here's my goals and my benchmarks, but my identity is not wrapped up in the benchmark.
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My identity is wrapped up in the day-to-day activity to ultimately achieve those things I say I want.
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I love it. Love it. Great clarity. All right. Lonnie McIntyre, in the process of reclaiming one's
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sovereignty, how do you deal with resistance in your own home, specifically from a spouse?
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To be specific, over the past 25 years of my marriage, I've been a good provider, but not a
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good leader. Also, I was a pleaser, meaning I ignored my feelings and needs, et cetera, as long as
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everyone else was happy. That was all that mattered. Well, it's a bit ironic, the question
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you're asking, how do I regain my sovereignty, but worry about what other people are thinking at the
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same time? Like it's, I mean, I get your question and I'm not beating the question up by any means.
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It's just an interesting thing to consider. And on one hand, I have to say that you probably should
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consider that less. Okay. On one hand, because it doesn't matter if you're going to lead, then you have
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to lead. And you know what? Your wife is going to push back on you, especially if throughout your
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marriage, you've never done it. I don't think she's probably being malicious. She just probably
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doesn't believe you. And why would she? No offense, Lonnie, to you, but why would she? You said
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yourself, you've been spending your entire marriage this way, and now you're shifting 180 degrees. And
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she's like, what the hell's going on? I don't, I didn't, this is weird. Ultimately, she's really going to
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appreciate it, but it's going to take some effort because she probably doesn't believe that your
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changes are going to be lasting. And it's a threat to your current situation. So on one hand, you have
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to worry less about how people receive it because you're doing it for the right reason. And that is
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to be a man, to lead your family, to lead your wife, to lead your kids, and for everybody around you
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to live a better life. That's the right reason. On the other hand, you have to make sure you do this
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with some tact so you can get her support and get her on board. Because if she's not on board,
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it's going to be infinitely harder and you run the risk of maybe even losing relationships in the
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process, which is antithetical to what I think you're trying to do. You're trying to bolster
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relationships, not break them down. So what I would say is make sure you include her in the process.
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You can have your sovereignty, but still include the people who are going to be impacted by your
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decisions in that process. And that might look like this. Hey, hon, can we talk tonight? Can we
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sit down for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour? Everything's fine. Just want to put that out
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there. Everything's fine. But I want to talk with you about some things I've been doing in the Iron
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Council. That's the group I was telling you about that I signed up for. Would that be okay? And she's
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going to say, yeah, that's fine. We can do that after dinner, after the kids go to bed. Good. I'm
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looking forward to it. I have some exciting things I want to share with you. You see how I framed
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that? First, I told her I wanted to sit down so now she can brace herself for some time.
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I told her everything's fine so she doesn't need to stress out about something going wrong
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or me having hard feelings or something like that. So she's not stressed there. And also
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you framed it as exciting things. So now she's like, oh, okay, is this going to be a good,
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optimistic, hopeful conversation? So make sure framing when you have these conversations
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is done right. And I always try to give people the time to just brace themselves for the
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conversations that we're going to have. Then when you sit down with her, that's where you're
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going to start talking with her first about why the changes you need to make are important.
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So write that down. Why is important. So that might look like this. Hey, hon, look, I'm going
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to be really honest. And I think you already know this. We've talked about this for the past
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10 or 15 or 20 years, however long you guys have been married. I haven't really shown up,
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I feel like, in a powerful way that serves you and the kids best. And I haven't really been happy
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with myself. But I think that based on some things that I'm learning about myself through
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the Iron Council and some conversations that you and I have had, it really makes sense for me to step
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up in a better way because you need a good leader in the home. You've asked for me to be a better
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leader. The kids need direction and focus and discipline and consistency for me so they can be
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safe and secure and grow up fulfilled and grow up in a healthy way. I need to be better at work
00:22:39.340
because we need to figure out a way to bring more income into the household. Can you imagine if we do
00:22:44.920
that and we pay off some debt, we set some money aside every year for that vacation we want to take
00:22:50.380
with a family every year, put a little money aside for retirement, maybe get you in a position where
00:22:55.820
you don't have to work anymore. You see how you're framing this in a way that it's serving her if you
00:23:00.800
make these moves? And you tee that up first and then you ask her, what do you think about that?
00:23:07.440
So you're leading by starting the conversation and you're also allowing her to follow you. This is what
00:23:13.860
you want. You want her to follow you. And so you're giving her permission and even asking for her to
00:23:20.300
follow you. And how is she doing that? By giving you her feedback. So now she says, yeah, that would
00:23:26.040
be great. And then what you say is, so you have the why. Now you have, well, so what would be some
00:23:32.880
concerns that you might have if I were to start improving myself in these ways and working towards
00:23:39.280
that? Would there be concerns that you would have? Again, leading because you're asking powerful
00:23:42.860
questions, asking her to follow you by sharing those things with you. Don't get, don't get offended
00:23:51.160
in these moments. Okay. Cause she might say, well, I think it's great, but you've talked about this
00:23:55.500
before. And frankly, it just pissed me off because we invested a bunch of time. You weren't here. You
00:24:01.020
were done other things. And then we just went right back to where we were before. It would have been
00:24:04.480
better not to do anything at all. That's where most men will get offended and they'll ruin what they're
00:24:09.920
trying to do. Sovereignty is being able to put yourself above emotional reaction.
00:24:18.220
Because if there's one person, even if it's your wife, the closest person in your life
00:24:22.140
who can get you to bite by saying a few sentences, you're not sovereign. She can control you.
00:24:30.220
Hmm. So regulate the emotion, say, you know what? That's good feedback. I understand why you'd feel
00:24:36.700
that way. I did do that. It was that way, but I'd like to share with you what I'm going to do moving
00:24:42.680
forward and how that's going to look. And then you start sharing some of your plans. You don't need to
00:24:46.920
share everything all at once. Just say, Hey, you know, the, the, one of the things I'm going to do
00:24:51.300
is I'm just going to become a man of my word. That's, that's my biggest focus right now. And so
00:24:57.940
here's how that's going to be threefold. If I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it.
00:25:06.380
If I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. If I don't want to do it or won't do it,
00:25:13.480
then I'm not going to say I will do it. That's number two. And number three, I'm going to be very
00:25:19.580
honest in our relationship moving forward. So if you ask me where I would like to eat for dinner
00:25:25.080
or what I would like to have, I'm going to be honest and tell you exactly what I want.
00:25:28.860
If you come to me and you put two dresses in front of me and you say, which one looks better?
00:25:32.840
I'm going to tell you which one looks better. If you say something to me and I take it the wrong way,
00:25:39.480
or maybe it feels personal, I'm going to tell you that feels personal to me. So, so the way that I'm
00:25:47.160
going to be a man of my word is threefold. Number one, I'm going to do what I say I'm going to do.
00:25:50.720
Number two, I'm not going to say things I'm not going to do. And number three, I'm going to be
00:25:54.000
truthful in all of our interactions moving forward. How do you feel about that? And again, allow her to
00:25:59.360
be part of the conversation. That's, that's a little bit of the way that I would approach that initial
00:26:03.860
conversation. What do you think though, Kip? I mean, I think it's solid. I mean, and I don't know if
00:26:09.120
this is good advice. I was going to ask you your thoughts about this, but my default sometimes is
00:26:14.440
not to have this conversation first. Right. And to make sure I'm making pivots and adjustments on my
00:26:23.280
own, that I'm kind of modeling some behavior, some momentum before having the conversation.
00:26:29.660
However, I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing, right? Because that's kind of loaded
00:26:35.700
probably with some expectation that I'm going to start showing up more powerfully. She may not even
00:26:41.140
know the pivots and adjustments that I'm making. And then I have this expectation that you know what I
00:26:46.000
mean? There's change when she's unaware of the actual change that we're talking about. And so
00:26:51.160
there's probably a balance there. I mean, maybe a consideration for Lonnie is like, are there areas
00:26:57.480
by which you need to show up more powerfully? That's almost like a net negative that you need to kind of
00:27:04.740
clear up and make sure that there's some modeling or leading by example is, you know, obviously you
00:27:11.100
have to be a man of integrity. You can't have this conversation and not follow through. That's not
00:27:16.780
going to penetrate you. Right. That's a trap. Really bad. So yeah. So you got to, you got to follow
00:27:22.840
through, but you know, um, why would she believe you now? It's been 25 years right now. You're just
00:27:30.040
talking about it. You know, just the importance of how we show up is, is really what comes to mind.
00:27:36.840
I, I think there's, I, there's validity in what you're saying. Um, I think there's a lot of guys
00:27:41.200
who would say exactly what you're saying. Don't ever communicate. Just do it. Just do it. Show up.
00:27:45.700
And, and I, I can, I can see where that would be appropriate. Um, because your actions are always
00:27:50.240
going to be more significant than your words. That said, I think I'm a communicator personally,
00:27:55.920
so I would rather communicate. Um, and I'm also going to be a man of my word. I'm going to follow
00:28:01.060
through on the things I'm going to say I'm going to do. So there might be areas where instead of
00:28:07.440
just saying areas, let's talk about it. Maybe you're 40 pounds overweight. I don't think you need
00:28:13.440
to explain to her that you're going to start losing weight. I think you just control your dieting
00:28:19.120
within the confines of, of what you guys eat and you train every day. Now, where I would consult her
00:28:27.300
is if you're going to start getting up early and leaving the house at five 30 in the morning,
00:28:32.580
and she's used to you getting up at seven 30, you probably have some explaining to do.
00:28:37.940
Or if you eat poorly and you want to look at some changes in the diet for the household,
00:28:46.980
probably some conversations that need to be had there. But I think there is a lot that you can do
00:28:53.140
without really informing her. But the minute it starts to impact her or the minute she starts to
00:28:59.640
get weird about it, like, Hey, what's going on here? And you'll notice what that is. Cause you know,
00:29:04.880
her personality that, that would be, if you haven't already, that would definitely be a time to make
00:29:10.280
sure you're explaining things to her because what could potentially happen is if you don't explain
00:29:15.340
things, you could actually start getting a whole lot better pretty quickly. I mean, if you go to
00:29:20.200
the gym every day for two months, you're going to lose 20 pounds. Like you in, in locking your diet,
00:29:25.600
you're absolutely going to lose 20 pounds. I would say 95% of the male population would probably fall
00:29:31.420
into that category. Um, if you start being more assertive at work or with her, like she's going to
00:29:38.120
to notice that, um, if you get a promotion at work, she's going to see that if your demeanor changes,
00:29:45.100
or if you're getting up earlier or going to bed earlier, and you have a nighttime routine that
00:29:50.400
doesn't include watching bin watch binge, watching the Netflix show and gorging yourself on a bag of
00:29:56.500
Oreos, she's going to notice that. And she might be threatened it by it. If you don't include,
00:30:03.660
because this is what people do. She, she might think, why is he doing this? Or who's he trying
00:30:09.880
to impress? Or is he seeing somebody else? She might think those things. So be aware, just be
00:30:18.040
aware of that. If you change, she's going to notice. Yeah. Yeah, totally. You know, one thing that comes
00:30:23.340
to mind for Lonnie and I've been fleshing out this a little bit, but, but this, just this concept of
00:30:29.040
leadership capital and, and where's your balance, right? Do you, do you have a positive leadership
00:30:35.500
capital balance with her and what are you doing to make those deposits? I'm Stephen Covey used the
00:30:42.300
term emotional bank account. Um, I would just know that you need a positive balance and what are you
00:30:51.160
doing? And not, and not that sovereignty isn't good in itself, but why Lonnie, why I'm reclaiming my
00:30:59.920
sovereignty? Why? Like what, why? So you can be a better husband so you can be a better father so you
00:31:08.040
can serve. Don't lose sight of the reasoning behind the pivot sometimes, right? Natural dispensation of
00:31:16.820
almost all men, right? A little bit of leadership authority will result in, and practice in
00:31:23.320
unrighteous dominion, right? So don't lose sight of why you're doing this. Well, I also think as a nice
00:31:31.140
guy, uh, and that's what it sounds like with him is that he's got some nice guy tendencies. When you
00:31:37.100
try to move from nice guy, what ends up happening, if you're serious about it, and this is natural is
00:31:43.260
you start tiptoeing into asshole territory is what I call it because you don't have a healthy
00:31:49.180
perspective of what is nice versus what is sovereign. And, and so the pendulum swings too far
00:31:58.140
in a lot of cases. And some guys end up just turning into complete dicks because my sovereignty
00:32:04.560
it's like, well, okay, good. That's okay. You can explore those fringes. You kind of need to,
00:32:11.320
because then that, what that does is that allows you to see, oh, oh, oh, I went too far. I got to
00:32:16.220
rein that back in just a little bit. Or there's a way for me to communicate my desires, but do it in
00:32:22.600
a way that will be well-received by others. And that's where you start to find the middle ground,
00:32:28.780
the nuance in the way that you show up between being nice, which is getting trampled on and being
00:32:34.400
a dick, which is trampling on everybody else. But you can't really know until you explore the
00:32:40.740
fringes of both. Just be careful of that. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Mike, uh, and Dorfer looking
00:32:48.840
back over the past nine plus years, which is crazy of doing order of man name one thing you're most
00:32:57.140
proud of and one area you see the greatest opportunity for growth. Well, I mean, I can say
00:33:03.320
that hit it and it's been 10 years actually now. And I can say that I'm very proud that we hit our 10
00:33:09.200
year anniversary. It's pretty broad, but the fact that we've been in this game for 10 years
00:33:13.980
where I don't know what the statistics are, but if you look at the statistics of businesses starting
00:33:18.200
and failing, like it's rough. So for us to be in this game for a decade means a lot to me.
00:33:25.140
Um, I'm also really proud of when we started, this was seven, eight years ago when we started doing
00:33:29.680
events, you know, when we started doing events, that was, that was amazing. Um, I'm really proud of that.
00:33:36.000
And then I'm also proud of, well, when I went through my divorce three years ago, I had every
00:33:43.820
reason to throw in the towel at every reason to stop. I had every reason to stop doing this and
00:33:49.120
move on. You know, plenty of people were encouraging me and not so many words to, to do that. Like
00:33:56.340
there was a lot that went on and I didn't. And I always felt compelled, even in those moments where
00:34:02.120
I was like, ah, maybe I should quit or sell the business or, or close it down and do something
00:34:05.960
else. Even in those fleeting moments and they were fleeting, I just couldn't help but think,
00:34:11.600
no, you have more work to do. There's more work to do here. And in spite of everything that's
00:34:16.180
happened, you might be more qualified to help men who you weren't able to help before because
00:34:23.020
you didn't relate with what they were going through. So that was a really big deal. Uh, there
00:34:28.780
was another part of that question. What, what was the second part of that question?
00:34:35.640
Oh yeah. I still think local chapters and I've been thinking about that forever. I just think
00:34:40.740
that the more that AI gets introduced to things, I mean, I use AI just about every day now. Um,
00:34:46.380
some of it for things that you guys are very familiar with. Um, some of it that's kind of just
00:34:50.500
behind the scenes and the more that gets integrated into everybody's everyday average way of life,
00:34:58.020
the more need we're going to have for connection. So that's where the greatest opportunity lies and
00:35:04.260
that and, and individual courses as well, because what I've found is that men aren't generally just
00:35:10.600
doing like poor every, in every department, it's usually some isolated thing that they're going
00:35:16.660
through that's impacting other aspects of their life. So for example, if they're going through a
00:35:20.820
divorce, okay, now their mental health is diminished. Now their physical health goes, they don't have
00:35:26.000
hobbies. They don't have activities. They're kind of lost, confused, frustrated, feeling like a
00:35:30.120
failure. So there's a lot of mental weight and baggage that comes with that. So it's just an,
00:35:35.920
it's an isolated thing and it can be isolated, but if we can put together a course and we're working
00:35:41.220
on it called divorce, not death. So if you go to that website, divorce, not death.com, you can get
00:35:46.460
signed up for that. And if we can put together a course that helps men walk through, for example,
00:35:51.900
in this case, the first 12 months post-divorce. Okay. Now we're focused on that acute problem,
00:36:00.060
which will, if addressed properly, naturally improve every other aspect of their life. And
00:36:05.920
that could be finances too. That could be having a child or a new relationship or the loss of a loved
00:36:12.900
one. These major catastrophic and very happy life events is when men are most interested in developing
00:36:19.660
and improving. And I think there's some opportunities to plug into where those guys want solutions.
00:36:28.080
Yeah. You know, Ryan, you mentioned events and, and obviously this divorce, uh, not death course,
00:36:35.300
you know, just as a reminder, you know, for you guys to stay connected to Ryan or even hop onto the
00:36:41.460
website, order man.com, sign up for the newsletter that that's how you stay in the know, um, regarding
00:36:46.860
up and coming events, right. That, that we put on. So that's order of man.com, uh, Wayne McPherson,
00:36:53.180
ruck a roll. Will you be spending more time on your feet or your back in Q3?
00:36:59.680
Yeah. So he's referring to jujitsu or rucking. Uh, there's a big rucking competition inside the
00:37:06.020
iron council right now. It was funny. Cause I was so proud of myself on, uh, on Saturday I did
00:37:11.280
three and a half miles. I think it was, yeah, three miles with 35 pounds. And I was like, yeah,
00:37:15.400
I'm winning. And I looked at the results and I was winning and Dan was like, well, yeah,
00:37:19.020
you're winning. Cause it doesn't start till tomorrow. And I was like, oh shit. I thought
00:37:22.840
because of the, cause of 4th of July, it messed up my schedule. So I thought Saturday was Sunday
00:37:27.820
and that's when it started. So yeah, I want, I was winning because nobody else had even started yet.
00:37:32.900
So that's the only time I think I'll be in the lead in this competition, but I've done two days in a
00:37:37.700
row now. Um, and I'm going on a trip next week. So that's going to be a little hard. So I'm trying to
00:37:42.940
front and load this and just be aware of other things that might derail me, but yeah, I'm going
00:37:46.740
to be doing a lot more rucking this quarter than rolling. Yeah. Just wear your weighted vest on the
00:37:52.600
airplane. It won't be awkward at all. No one's going to be worried about it. Maybe I can do it in
00:37:57.720
jujitsu too. Just wear my vest while I'm training jujitsu. Actually, you know what? Like, uh, Michael
00:38:07.200
Easter, he wrote, um, uh, what's the book called? I can't think of a book, the book title. Uh, it was
00:38:14.720
his first book. I had him on the podcast. Uh, look, look it up Kip. Well, I'm talking real quick.
00:38:19.840
Michael Easter. Yeah. And then Joe DeSena, founder of Spartan races. Um, Joe will carry kettlebells on
00:38:25.300
airplanes with him. He just brings kettlebells with him. And I think Michael does something similar
00:38:30.020
where he'll just carry kettlebells. What's the book? Comfort crisis. That's what it is.
00:38:35.300
He'll carry, he'll either carry weights or, or dumbbells or something with him on planes. So
00:38:41.420
it's not out of the realm of what people have done before. And who cares who you're going to be
00:38:48.480
judged by? All right. People who are out of shape, fat, overweight, and you know, a little bit
00:38:54.420
miserable. That's who you're going to be judged by. Does that matter? Yeah. Plus, I mean, I, I,
00:39:01.240
what I expect you to answer to Wayne is I don't play off my back when I do jujitsu anyway. So it
00:39:07.080
doesn't matter. Well, I don't want to, but I usually end up finding myself there. I'd rather
00:39:11.200
be on top if we're being honest, but I just, I take what I can get.
00:39:18.460
All right. Uh, Jay, uh, Lafrey for years, I've stressed to my wife, the importance of making sure
00:39:24.860
she has enough fuel in her vehicle in case of an emergency. Unfortunately, it falls to deaf ears.
00:39:30.700
Her gas tank seems to always be close to empty. It grinds my gears. Should I take on responsibility
00:39:38.040
of filling up her fuel for her safety? If I take that on, is that Mr. Mr. Nice guy mistake? What
00:39:45.660
would each of you gents do in my case? Thank you for your time. I don't think it's Mr. Nice guy.
00:39:51.160
Like you're not just being nice. You have her best interest at heart and clearly she's not going to
00:39:55.740
do it. Maybe she doesn't understand the ramification of why she's doing that. But I think that's pretty
00:40:01.380
common for women. It seems like, or I know you've talked about, you know, Asia taking the, or, or
00:40:07.080
saying I need the truck today and you give her the truck to get into her car and it's on empty while
00:40:11.040
yours is full. I don't know if this is one of those things that's just the difference between men and
00:40:15.780
women or, or what it is, but it seems to be the case. Um, yeah, I, I would, I would be pretty
00:40:23.880
cautious of doing it myself because she can do it. She, it's not like a difficult thing and maybe
00:40:33.080
just say, Hey hon, like every Monday or every Thursday or whatever, will you just go fill up
00:40:37.700
the car? Like that, that'll put my mind to ease. That makes me feel better. I, I'm, I care about you.
00:40:42.560
I want you to know you're safe and that's, that's important to me. Uh, maybe you've already had
00:40:48.120
that conversation, but I don't know. What do you think? Would you, would you fill it up for her?
00:40:55.540
I mean, I feel like I do already, right? You do anyways. Yeah. I mean, I'm true. Yeah. I don't,
00:41:01.780
I don't think I'd go out of my way to like go fill up her car, but, but let's, let's think through
00:41:06.660
this principle. Right. So it's this, it's something else. How, how we, how do you drive
00:41:12.360
this forward? Most people need coaching in the moment, right? Like that's kind of how it works.
00:41:19.800
Right. So, you know, um, perhaps, right. One thing that you could do is, you know, it's, it's
00:41:28.980
evening time. I don't know. You guys just wrapped up dinner and you're like, Hey, we got a crazy day
00:41:36.260
tomorrow. Let's grab the kids, go to the gas station, get some ice creams. And while we're
00:41:41.000
at it, we can go ahead and fill up the car. So we don't have to worry about that tomorrow.
00:41:44.860
That'd be nice to button that up. So I would look for the in the moment opportunities,
00:41:51.240
but the bigger issue is that it grinds my gears, right? Like awesome. And how many other things
00:42:01.260
outside your realm of control, grind your gears, like you got to deal with that.
00:42:09.480
Welcome to autonomy and agency. And whether it's your wife or whether it's your teenage kid
00:42:17.700
or employees, guess what? They're not going to do what you suggest. Even if what you suggest
00:42:23.540
is the most amazing thing ever and would benefit them. Most people don't. Most people don't.
00:42:30.500
Why? Cause they don't need to be changed. They don't want to be changed. They don't want
00:42:35.040
your coaching. Most people just want, you know, that they, they want to feel appreciated
00:42:40.100
by you and seen by you. I mean, that's reality. And sometimes people come knocking and get your
00:42:46.320
advice and, and sometimes hopefully we'll have opportunity to coach people. But I mean, I would
00:42:54.040
double down in the area that I'm getting upset about and why am I getting upset about it? And
00:42:58.240
how do I let go of it? Just my thoughts. I mean, it's a, it's a fun, it's a kind of a funny
00:43:03.800
thing, but it's true. It is something people deal with. And you know, I, another thought
00:43:08.380
that comes to mind is, has she ever run out of gas before? Because if she hasn't, maybe
00:43:13.920
she knows what she's doing. Like maybe she's fine. Yeah. That's a, that's a consideration.
00:43:18.940
Yeah. Um, another consideration is, are you doing all the little things that she wants you to do?
00:43:27.580
Like, let's say she's like, Hey hon, can you be home at five 30? Cause that's what time we do
00:43:31.160
dinner. But you come home at five 45 and at six o'clock and you're like, well, I was busy with a
00:43:36.200
proposal and doing, he does pools. And so I was busy. So I couldn't, well, it goes both ways.
00:43:44.740
Like you might ask yourself, Hey, in what ways can I show up more fully? And, and you might
00:43:49.420
acknowledge that with her. If you're really trying to get to the bottom of it, you know,
00:43:52.440
maybe it's like, Hey hon, you know, it's important to me, but you know, I also see where there's
00:43:57.140
things that are important to you that I'm not doing. So I'm going to work on those things and
00:44:01.220
you can either do that or not, but I can see where I might need to do a little better too. And I'm
00:44:04.560
going to work on those things. She might follow suit. Yeah. Here's, here's the other thing.
00:44:09.660
Often this is, this is called a fundamental attribution error. When we attribute reasoning
00:44:15.640
to our lack of action, but when it comes to other people, we attribute it to their character.
00:44:23.780
Right. So she's not filling up the tank. Well, why do we know why? Maybe it's not as easy for her.
00:44:33.320
Maybe there is more things going on, right? Like who knows? Right. So there might be some root
00:44:39.300
cause analysis that, right. That could happen there as well. The only, I mean, we're digging
00:44:44.160
deep on this one, but the only other thought I had is like, depending on what the vehicles are,
00:44:49.780
you know, maybe just trade her once per week and you know, you take care of it and you take the,
00:44:54.400
you take the other vehicle, her vehicle on Wednesdays or something that might be a little
00:44:58.460
hard because you're lying to work. And she might say, well, I don't want to drive the truck. It's like,
00:45:01.840
well, then fill up the gas tank. And then we don't have, we don't, we don't have to worry about
00:45:05.660
this. So there's a lot here. There's a lot to unpack in this small little example.
00:45:12.220
What we don't recommend Jay is you going out in the middle of the night, siphoning gas from her
00:45:17.520
car into yours. So she's purposely on empty. So you can teach her a lesson. Don't do that.
00:45:23.480
That's that definitely. That's not going to go well.
00:45:26.620
Just take her keys, just unhook one of the terminals so she can't even leave the driveway
00:45:31.900
until she learns how to put gas in the tank. There you go. Problem solved. Yeah.
00:45:35.460
Oh boy. Okay. What's next? Shoot. I think we can take one. Maybe we just gave Jay some ideas.
00:45:45.160
Yeah. Well, I'm sure he had those ideas. This is our last one from the council.
00:45:51.560
I'm sure those weren't new. All right. Joe Gunter.
00:45:55.520
All right. Joe Gunter. While going through, um, our, what keeps us up at night segment of our team call,
00:46:02.380
we realized that a large majority of our team members are struggling with being just a little
00:46:07.480
off base. We are all putting in the work, but it seems like we're all going through a, uh,
00:46:13.140
a season of being in lower mental state. Seems like we're all hitting the mid season dog days
00:46:19.520
of the year in our battle plans. What are some strategies that you guys like to use to weather
00:46:25.080
than mid season slump and stay motivated? Well, first stop calling it that the, what,
00:46:32.000
what did you say? The mid season slump mid season dog days. Yeah. Don't, yeah. And mid season slump.
00:46:40.660
I've never, don't do that because you're just placing the expectation of this is just how it goes.
00:46:46.720
So don't first and foremost, don't do that. It doesn't have to be how it goes. And you're
00:46:52.040
talking about weathering the days. What does weathering the days mean? It means hunkering
00:46:56.540
down, bolting up the windows, shutting yourself inside from the rest of the world and just like
00:47:01.820
getting through it. If maybe the answer is the opposite of weathering it. Maybe the answer is
00:47:07.680
try something new, go on adventure, pick up a new hobby, go, go play, go, go on a trip,
00:47:14.460
take your family somewhere crazy, do something a little wild, something you've never done before.
00:47:18.780
And so the answer is not weathering it. The answer is embracing it, enjoying it, living it fully.
00:47:24.500
That's some mindset stuff from a tactical perspective. Yes. Obviously trying new things,
00:47:29.480
mixing it up. The analogy I've used in the past is not to mix metaphors here necessarily, but
00:47:34.020
you're, you're driving down a dirt road and it gets a little swampy and you get yourself into a rut.
00:47:41.560
And if you've ever been in a rut on a dirt road, you know, it'll still keep going depending on how
00:47:46.660
bad the rut is, but you can keep going, but it's really hard to get yourself out of the rut. It's
00:47:50.840
almost like a track that you can just press the gas and it'll, it'll just take the car wherever
00:47:55.620
the ruts are. Sometimes in order to get out of that rut, you need to jerk the wheel and give it
00:47:59.960
some gas and pop yourself up out of that rut and get back on top of on the road. And then you can
00:48:05.540
control and go where you want to go. You have to be careful of sliding back in, but you're up on top.
00:48:09.480
And that's what your life might require when you're having those days is popping yourself up out of
00:48:16.020
that rut, trying something new, going on an adventure, asking the kids what they want to do,
00:48:21.680
taking your wife out, you know, on a staycation somewhere, a mini vacation, mixing something up
00:48:27.780
at work. If you have the possibility to do that, picking up a new hobby, those types of things. So
00:48:32.020
you're not hunkering, you're actually living life to its fullest. So I would, I would definitely say,
00:48:36.800
you know, have a little bit more, uh, adventure in your life. And the other thing that I would look
00:48:42.360
at is because we're talking about nutrition this month in the iron council, you should look at your
00:48:49.400
nutrition, look at what you're eating. We shouldn't be tired. Like we'll have moments of tiredness
00:48:53.680
because we stayed up doing fireworks all night or something like that, but we shouldn't be chronically
00:48:57.380
tired. We shouldn't be chronically lethargic. We shouldn't be chronically unsettled or slightly
00:49:04.380
miserable, not totally, but slightly. We should not feel that way. I think so many men feel that
00:49:08.580
way that we just think it's commonplace. Oh, well, you know, I turned 40 last year. So I guess this
00:49:12.420
is just the way it is. Who said this is the way it is. So what I would have, I would, what I'd really
00:49:17.600
have you do on a tactical level is go get your blood drawn, talk with a qualified medical professional
00:49:23.720
to read those results for you. Take a look at your hormones, testosterone, obviously how all of your,
00:49:30.420
the rest of your internal organs are functioning. And if they're working correctly, blood cell counts,
00:49:34.940
all that kind of stuff, have somebody that can help you with that. I'd take a real good look at my
00:49:39.980
sleep. Am I getting not only enough, but am I getting the proper sleep? Because we know that's
00:49:44.460
important. It's not just about the quantity. It's also about the quality. You can look at Sleep Smarter
00:49:49.500
by Shawn Stevenson. And then I would look at my diet. Are you eating a bunch of carbs and processed sugars?
00:49:55.480
Are you consuming a bunch of alcohol, which is pretty common during the summertime? You're
00:50:01.240
overeating probably because you have all the barbecues and you got chips in front of you and
00:50:05.440
everything else. Your diet's probably changed because of the summer too. So you can read Eat
00:50:11.100
Smarter also by Shawn Stevenson to take a look at your sleep, your nutrition, and your blood work,
00:50:17.840
I would say is a huge part of that, especially as you do get older. It's important for men.
00:50:21.980
Yeah. I think I love the disrupt. I love the pivot, jerk the wheel. That might look like even a short
00:50:33.480
term challenge for you and your team. Like, hey guys, let's mix it up. This week, everyone's doing
00:50:39.980
two a days. We're throwing in three mile runs for everybody every single day. Or maybe you do a check
00:50:47.160
in a little bit more often that week, right? The other thing is don't forget why you're doing what
00:50:52.260
you're doing. And don't like focus on the progress, right? The gap and the gain, right? Look at the gain
00:51:00.060
because some of the slump is we're losing sight that we're, we're progressing. We're doing great,
00:51:05.180
right? And so maybe a little bit of gratitude, um, for the progress being made as well. And don't
00:51:12.860
forget the bigger picture of why we're doing what we're doing. Yeah. I was writing this down
00:51:19.040
because, you know, I like frameworks. Um, so the frameworks that I think would work really good
00:51:24.260
in this scenario, and I like the word that you use disrupt. So I would say disrupt and check in,
00:51:29.000
check in with your body. That's the blood work, the nutrition, the sleep, and then disrupt your life
00:51:33.660
in a responsible way. Obviously you have responsibilities, but disrupt and check in.
00:51:37.820
I think if you do those few things, man, you're going to find, you're going to find some gaps
00:51:41.700
that you can really fill and change some things around pretty quickly. Awesome. All right. That's
00:51:46.380
a wrap gentlemen. Um, really quick, a couple, a couple of things, right? I said, connect with Ryan,
00:51:51.880
hop onto the website, order man.com, sign up for the newsletter, divorce, not death.com for that up
00:51:58.060
and coming course. And then of course you can connect with Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.
00:52:04.600
Sure. That's how you stay in the know. And that's how you stay connected to what we have going on
00:52:08.620
and upcoming events and those kinds of things. Yes, sir. All right, guys. Well, I appreciate
00:52:13.340
the questions today. Hopefully as always, we gave you some things to consider and I hope that you
00:52:16.960
had a good 4th of July weekend coming back, getting back into it. Uh, we will be back on Friday until
00:52:22.160
then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:52:25.640
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
00:52:34.640
and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.