Order of Man - RICK TRIMMER ｜ One Foot in Front of the Other

00:00:00.200 Failures, victories, challenges, setbacks, ups and downs, and everything in between,

00:00:05.160 they're all part of life. It's how we frame the rollercoaster of events and what we do about them

00:00:09.780 that makes us men. Today, I'm joined by longtime friend, serial entrepreneur, hunter, husband,

00:00:14.900 and father, Rick Trimmer, to talk about some of his biggest challenges and how he's learned to

00:00:19.600 overcome the adversity to create an incredible life for himself and family. We cover the path

00:00:25.400 of least resistance and the path of most resistance and which one to take, overcoming failure and

00:00:30.420 losing everything, doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, and putting one foot

00:00:35.520 in front of the other every day. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your

00:00:40.980 fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time,

00:00:46.760 every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life.

00:00:53.680 This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and

00:00:59.440 done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler.

00:01:05.120 I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back.

00:01:10.040 If you're new to the podcast, this is a conversation dedicated to interviewing incredible men, guys who

00:01:16.720 have success on different fronts, whether it's family or business or finances or their careers,

00:01:22.660 and get their information, get their wisdom, learn from their failures and their setbacks.

00:01:28.020 We don't need to necessarily learn from our own exclusively. We should be learning from others.

00:01:32.300 And then I give that information to you in this podcast. We've got some incredible,

00:01:36.060 incredible guests, including my good friend, Rick Trimmer today. And I'm going to get into that

00:01:39.860 in just a minute. Before I do, I want to mention, if you have not yet picked up a copy of my latest

00:01:44.640 book, The Masculinity Manifesto, I would highly encourage that you do that wherever you pick up

00:01:50.780 your books. We have the physical hardcover copy. We have the electronic version and we have the

00:01:57.400 audio version as well. So whatever your heart's desire, you can find it. It's called The Masculinity

00:02:02.360 Manifesto. And the subtitle is How a Man Establishes Influence, Credibility, and Authority. Something I

00:02:08.220 think all of us should, but I'm sure are working to develop and build in our lives. Again, The Masculinity

00:02:14.140 Manifesto. Pick up a copy if you would. And if you already have and have read it, I want you to leave an

00:02:18.960 honest review on Amazon so we can bump that up the charts. I appreciate that guys. All right,

00:02:23.960 let's get to my conversation with Rick. As I mentioned earlier, Rick and I have been friends

00:02:28.180 for a very long time, over 20 years when we were snot nosed college age kids, worrying only about

00:02:34.520 girls and the next party we'd attend. But that said, Rick has gone on to create an incredible life for

00:02:39.680 himself and his beautiful family. He formally retired in his late thirties and uses his business and

00:02:45.960 investment portfolio to travel the world for six plus months or longer of the year at a time.

00:02:52.380 He's an incredibly successful businessman. And since I know him so well and spent a lot of time,

00:02:57.020 in fact, I'm hunting with him this week. I can tell you one of his greatest strengths

00:03:01.160 is his curiosity. And it's that curiosity for life that I know has driven much of his success and wealth.

00:03:07.760 All right. What's up, Rick? Glad to be doing a podcast. Yeah. This is the most comfortable

00:03:14.080 podcast studio ever. It is. Sitting at Sunset Lodge in beautiful sedan, Minnesota. Yeah. This is

00:03:22.740 your third year out here? Second. Second year. Second year. That's right. I invited you last year. You

00:03:28.200 did. And I've regretted it every day since. Yeah. I know Matt has. No, it's been good, man. I love

00:03:34.020 coming out here. It's cool, man. It's, you know, the people, it's just great family. Well, the,

00:03:40.360 the people, the family, of course, you want to say their last names? I don't even know how. Smiths.

00:03:47.300 Smiths. Samsonite. Swanson. Yeah, definitely them. Schmiddals. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you say it.

00:03:56.260 Nice. Then just the brotherhood, you know, of us coming out here every year. Like I've been coming

00:04:01.800 out here for five years. And I think that's one thing a lot of guys are missing is they don't have

00:04:07.740 other guys in their corner. Yeah. Like they don't. So many people lone wolf it, men especially. And I

00:04:14.080 know men are like, I know a lot of men are struggling and if they didn't, and like I said,

00:04:18.740 they don't have anybody in their corner and it's way worse than it needs to be because they don't

00:04:23.500 have people around them. Yeah. And I think, you know, for me, it's, you think you have people in

00:04:28.260 your corner, you know, I have a lot of good friends growing up and stuff, but, you know,

00:04:33.100 kind of coming in with the iron council and meeting these men that are like-minded was kind of a big

00:04:37.760 deal for me, you know, because they have a similar interests. You know, a lot of my other buddies,

00:04:42.360 I still love them, but they like to golf. They like to do things that I don't, I'm not drawn to.

00:04:46.340 I also think a lot of guys don't have deep conversations. Absolutely. Like nothing wrong with

00:04:51.240 golf or hunting or whatever your thing is. Whatever you're into. But if it ends there, that's the

00:04:56.640 problem. Yeah. And that, that, that's what it is for most guys. Yeah. They're talking about their

00:05:00.880 golf score or what the buck they shot or this or that. And they're never really getting into

00:05:04.960 anything deep about their relationship struggles, about their business, finance. Exactly. And that,

00:05:11.620 that's the biggest problem. Yeah. And what we've been here, just, this is the second day

00:05:15.660 and already I've had three or four conversations with these guys that are way personal. I wonder what it

00:05:21.740 is though about like how to go deeper into a relationship with another, with another guy.

00:05:26.920 I know that sounds weird, but you don't, you know what I'm saying is like, how do you,

00:05:30.360 how do you go deep into that? Especially if you've never done it before and you, all you've ever really

00:05:36.660 had is good conversations, good relationships, but service level. Yeah. I don't know. You know,

00:05:42.280 like, again, I think with these guys, when I first met them in Hawaii, it just, they just,

00:05:47.200 you know, you get a, I get a vibe from people and these are just, you know, I feel like they're just

00:05:53.220 good souls and they're not out to get anything, not that my other friends are or anything, but I

00:05:59.420 feel like these guys are really genuinely, you know, looking for, they're working on themselves,

00:06:05.100 they're trying to better themselves. And so our conversations tend to dive into, you know,

00:06:10.640 those types of things, finances, you don't know your married life, you know, business,

00:06:14.420 the fundamentals that really can change the course of your life. And so I don't know how you kind of

00:06:21.400 cross that boundary, like you're saying with. Well, one thing I've noticed that you're really

00:06:25.340 good at is you're really good at asking questions. Like you're a good question asker. And when you ask

00:06:31.220 questions, you're genuinely curious and you can tell that curiosity. I think that's probably the

00:06:37.460 reason why people like you so much and have like immediately have a good relationship with you

00:06:42.760 because you're interested in them. Yeah. It's like me and Tom, right? You know, the dad here,

00:06:47.080 he's kind of gruff and quiet and, and I've hit it off with him just cause I love his story and, and

00:06:54.080 asking him how to run the combine and the tractor. Yeah. We both got to drive the combine yesterday and

00:07:00.480 it's just, you know, and I've always been that way where I like to learn from people and peek into

00:07:06.220 their lives. And I think, but I think that's how you do it. I think just asking people real questions,

00:07:12.340 not what your golf score is, not what the biggest buck you've shot. Yeah. You can ask those questions.

00:07:16.860 Yeah. Me and Tom riding around his combine, you know, we talked about his, it was funny. Me and

00:07:20.900 Matt rode out this morning to a hunting stand and I says, is that Brandon silos? And he looked over at

00:07:26.020 me and he's like, how do you know Brandon? And I says, I was talking to your dad and he told me about

00:07:30.100 Bob and now they're joking, you know, that I'm in the will. Right. And, you know, but I, again,

00:07:35.880 I think that is true where don't be afraid, you know, to, to talk to people. People love to tell

00:07:40.720 their story and I love to hear it. And I think if you can kind of, maybe if that, maybe that's what

00:07:46.580 it is. If you ask a couple questions, you know, personal, a little bit personal, most people open up

00:07:52.480 and that's when you really, you know, they expose themselves and, and like I said, I'm not faking it.

00:07:58.920 So I think it just works, you know? Yeah. You're not, it's not when you're, I've noticed, cause

00:08:03.160 I'm, I'm not, I mean, I talk for a living. Right. And even here, you guys were all talking. I'm

00:08:07.960 like, all right, I've had enough. Yeah. And I, I think people naturally believe that I'm an

00:08:12.820 extrovert, but I'm not, I'm actually introverted. I've heard you say that on your podcast. Like

00:08:17.500 when I, when we all sit around here or sit in the shop, I'm not trying to be rude or anything,

00:08:22.780 but like I'll sit there for a minute and then I'm like, all right. Yeah. Because I, it actually drains my

00:08:27.700 energy. Yeah. Not like, not you personally, but just the act of engaging that way. Yeah. It's not

00:08:33.000 comfortable. It's not natural. It's just like, oh, well it's, it's fine. I can do it, but I'm like,

00:08:37.360 okay. Like I had my fill. I'm good. And then I have to go sit alone or something or be quiet for me.

00:08:42.980 Yeah. And I never shut up, you know, I just talk, talk, talk. And so it's just different personalities,

00:08:47.960 you know? And that's why it's, I like coming to places like this because you throw, you know,

00:08:52.820 seven, eight guys into a room with different personalities and it's just, it's just a fun

00:08:58.400 time. Well, what I was going to say too, is your motives are pure. Like sometimes I think

00:09:03.560 people are asking questions to get something, they have their own agenda or they're trying to

00:09:09.100 manipulate or whatever it might be. But you, you are, like I said, you're genuinely curious.

00:09:14.060 And that's why I think people open up to you. The other thing I was going to say

00:09:17.160 to get guys to open up is we have to go first too. Yeah. So if you're struggling with something,

00:09:24.340 then you can test that with, with another guy. You can say, Hey, you know, here's what I'm dealing

00:09:27.740 with or whatever. Yeah. And they might blow you off and they're like, okay, that guy's not

00:09:31.140 interested in going deeper. But somebody else might be like, Oh really? Like tell me about that

00:09:34.860 or tell me more or, Oh, I dealt with that. And, and here's how I got over it. Here's how I got

00:09:39.560 through it. Yeah. Sometimes it just requires, you said earlier, exposing yourself,

00:09:43.780 putting yourself out there first and seeing how it goes from there.

00:09:47.660 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And, and like you said, you never know where it's going

00:09:52.360 to lead. And, you know, my relationship, but like I said, with the dad here, Tom, you know,

00:09:56.680 I genuinely like it, you know, and, and he reminds me of my grandpa Roy who passed away a couple of

00:10:02.120 years ago and probably a little bit of that, you know, draws me to him and I really enjoy it.

00:10:07.180 Have you always been like that at like conversational curious? I mean, you, you've got your hand in so

00:10:13.560 many different things and I'm always intrigued by that. Cause I I'm, I'm the opposite. I I'm a

00:10:19.420 guy who can like pick one thing and go deep on that one thing. And you probably have that ability

00:10:24.800 too, but also I see your hand in so many different things. Yeah. Yeah. I've always, I've always,

00:10:30.380 you know, there's that saying, what, you know, Jack of all trades, master of none. And I don't agree

00:10:36.380 with that. You know what I mean? That's, it's obviously good to be talented in an area so you can

00:10:41.080 capitalize on it or whatever, but you know, my, my kind of the way I've lived my life is

00:10:46.840 try, you know, try 20 different things and, and expose yourself to different, you know,

00:10:54.320 different things. I tell my kids, I'm like, you know, my one boy's in football right now and he's

00:10:58.520 just obsessed with football and that's fine. He's 10. That's great. But I hope it, you know,

00:11:03.600 as he grows in life, it's like, try soccer, try baseball, try, cause you don't, you know,

00:11:07.740 if you don't taste the other candy bars, you're not going to know which one you really like.

00:11:10.880 Yeah. But see, okay. So here's our personality difference. Like I hear that. Right. And I'm

00:11:15.340 like, well, what if you find a candy bar that's delicious? And to me, I'm like, come back to it.

00:11:19.760 No, I'm like, why would I rip? No. Cause what I think, cause I like almond Snickers. Yeah.

00:11:24.500 Like that's an interesting. I've never had that. I'm like an, I like an almond Snickers.

00:11:28.180 All right. So if I go have something else, I run the risk of, yeah, I could always come back,

00:11:35.680 but why would I even risk? It could be whatever else I have could be disgusting. That's funny.

00:11:40.100 And then I could have just had another almond Snickers. That's funny. Yeah. I look at it like,

00:11:44.400 you know, I love Reese's, but I wouldn't know that I love Reese's if I hadn't, you know, I like,

00:11:48.300 I like Reese's the best. If you've only ever had. No, I'm like, I like Reese's. That's awesome.

00:11:52.580 That's all I need. And I, and like I said, there's nothing wrong. It's, it's,

00:11:55.340 it's just an interesting personality difference. And you were saying it earlier, I think is,

00:12:00.160 I think it was you saying that you've known people who are ultra successful. Some are some of the most

00:12:07.820 kindest, gentlest people. And then you've also known ultra successful people who are just

00:12:12.820 dictators and tyrants. Absolutely. And so it just takes all kinds and it doesn't,

00:12:18.240 that's the thing I wish more guys knew is a lot of the times they think to themselves or they'll even

00:12:23.360 vocalize, Oh, you know, I wish I was more like Rick or I wish I was more like Ryan. Why? Like just

00:12:29.320 be you, be you and you can be successful doing that. Absolutely. But how do you find it? How do

00:12:35.120 you, cause there's a lot of guys who are listening who want to be successful. Like we have, we have

00:12:41.320 friends, we have mutual friends who, you know, for years have been like have said, I want to be

00:12:45.520 successful. I want to be successful and do this. I want to do that. And they haven't like, how do you,

00:12:51.280 how do you take it to the level where you can start to build a career, build a business or invest or do

00:12:56.140 some of these other things? Well, and that's, you know, that's, that's kind of a loaded question

00:12:59.600 for me because I don't define success as money. Well, I know, but what I'm saying is when people

00:13:05.940 ask that question, that's what they're saying. Yeah. They, and that's where I think most people

00:13:10.360 think, you know, money, money buys happiness, you know, money's the top of the mountain, you know?

00:13:16.900 And so obviously you have to have money. It buys freedom. That's what I, that's what I use my money

00:13:20.840 for. Um, and so, you know, you got to be careful with that if you're, you know, chasing that and,

00:13:27.200 and that's, that's your end goal. But as far as money, you know, you got to define it.

00:13:34.180 You know, that's one I, so I have a mentor who, who helped me out and it's like, I want money. I

00:13:38.080 want to be successful like you. That's what I said to him, you know, 10 years ago. And he's like,

00:13:42.960 what does that mean? And I'm like, I don't know. I just want more money. And he says, how much,

00:13:46.300 how much money? And I'm like, I never thought about that. What do you want the money for?

00:13:50.840 What's it going to do for you? And so he made me break it down to, you know, a dollar amount.

00:13:56.780 Most people don't, most people just want more money. And it's like, well, what do you want more

00:14:01.680 money for? And so I think if you break it down and say, okay, I want to travel. I want to spend

00:14:06.460 more time with my family. I don't want to have to work as much. I want a Lamborghini, whatever your

00:14:11.440 goals are. I think if you really write it down and, you know, if you don't know whether you're,

00:14:17.140 I always use the analogy of a trip, you know, are we going to San Diego or are we going to,

00:14:20.840 you know, Denver? If you don't know where you're going, you don't know how to get there.

00:14:25.780 Right.

00:14:26.520 So define it. And I always say, if you're with a spouse, sit down, define it because your goals

00:14:32.280 may be different. And that's hard in a marriage. You know, if one wants to save and one wants to

00:14:36.260 spend, that can be very problematic.

00:14:39.320 Yeah, of course.

00:14:40.920 So really sit down and see if, you know, I encourage people to do this before they get

00:14:44.860 married, you know, to make sure your goals are kind of aligned. But if you're already married,

00:14:48.080 then sit down and kind of lay out where you want to be in one year, five years, 10 years.

00:14:53.660 And then what does that dollar amount take to get there?

00:14:58.640 So for you, I'm really curious about this because have, so those goals that you talked with,

00:15:04.060 with your mentor 10 years ago, have you achieved those original goals?

00:15:08.120 I have.

00:15:08.940 And so, I mean, I figured that was the case financially and career wise.

00:15:14.780 Yeah.

00:15:15.280 But also you're still pushing. So have you reevaluated those goals? Have those changed?

00:15:20.140 What does that look like now?

00:15:21.160 Well, you know, so when I sit down with him, my goal was $5,000 a month passive income.

00:15:25.720 Right.

00:15:26.000 I says, you know, 5 million bucks or, and he says, or $5,000 a month passive income.

00:15:31.600 And back then I was like, yeah, that'd be good. You know, this is 20 years ago. I didn't have

00:15:36.300 three kids, you know? So you're, so the goal line does move and you want, I think it's human

00:15:43.220 nature to want more. And, you know, so that's one thing is you, when you set these goals out

00:15:49.660 one year, three years, five years, you're going to hit them hopefully. And then like I've heard

00:15:54.060 you talk on your podcast, you get to the top of the mountain and you think, oh, I've reached the

00:15:58.120 top. Well, there's another top, you know, fall summit, fall summit.

00:16:01.900 So yeah, you got to keep growing and keep motivating yourself, but at the same time,

00:16:06.180 don't get stuck on for me personally. It was, I had a grandpa, Roy, I just mentioned him earlier

00:16:11.540 where he, you know, just kept working and working and wanted more zeros in his bank account.

00:16:17.340 And he could never, you know, he could never spend it. He got to where it was just,

00:16:22.040 he just couldn't see it going out. And I worry about myself with that, you know, to where I started

00:16:26.680 saving so much that it was hard for me to start spending again. And I had to really take a moment

00:16:32.840 and realize that, you know, you can make more money. So I am still pushing for more,

00:16:38.920 but not necessarily more money. I want to do more things. I want to travel more. I want to do this

00:16:44.740 and, and, you know, I may have to adjust that, but the fundamentals are there. You know, I want to

00:16:50.600 be retired. You know, I retired five years ago. I'm 30, I'm 42 now at 37. I quit my job.

00:16:55.760 Um, what do you consider retired? Cause you're doing so, that's such a weird point. Cause a lot

00:17:02.640 of people are like, I retired at 35. I'm like, yeah, you're still working. Yeah. So I don't have

00:17:08.020 a day-to-day job. I don't go into work. I don't have a nine to five. Um, I have investments. I own

00:17:13.360 companies, uh, businesses I'll check on and I get dividends from, um, you know, rental property,

00:17:20.480 stuff like that. So I do have passive income and I do have businesses that I check on, but

00:17:25.040 you know, I guess the way I define retirement is I wake up and do what I want, um, for the most

00:17:32.120 part, you know, if I can. So, um, that was my big goal and you know, that's, that's, that's the way

00:17:39.040 we live. When did you guys start traveling? Cause you let, give a backstory on that. Cause you guys

00:17:44.120 travel extensively. There's, there's a lot of travel that you, it's not, we're going to go to

00:17:50.300 Mexico, Mexico, the Cabo this weekend. It's, it's no, we're going to live in Brazil for six

00:17:57.240 months. Right. Yeah. So again, we lost everything, you know, a little bit backstory. We lost everything

00:18:03.240 in the recession in 2008 to 11 started over. I mean, I own construction companies, so I was,

00:18:09.700 I was saddled with a straddled, saddled, saddled, saddled, saddled with debt and lost everything

00:18:19.180 and started over and, uh, dug out of that hole. It took us, we changed our entire lifestyle from

00:18:25.600 payments and debt to, you know, cash and savings. And so that a hard transition, like it seems like

00:18:35.920 mentally that wouldn't have been your personality. Devastating. You know, it was the hardest, it was,

00:18:42.160 you know, it's the best and worst thing that ever happened to me. You know, I always use the analogy

00:18:45.300 that a kid has to touch the stove. My dad used to tell me, you know, Rick, you're spending too much

00:18:50.140 money. Everything's financed. I'm like, it's fine, dad. You don't know, you don't know your, your old

00:18:54.860 school. And it was all smoke and mirrors. And so when that house of cards fell down, you know,

00:19:00.460 all my, all my stuff was financed. Um, it was devastating, you know, mentally, uh, as a man,

00:19:07.980 you know, I, I went around thinking I was just, you know, the top dog and smartest guy in the world.

00:19:12.660 I was 25 at the time. Uh, second business I had started and, and, uh, the recession hit a year after

00:19:18.860 I started it and we went, you know, swung for the fence out of the gate. And it was, you know,

00:19:25.420 like you say, it was dark times sitting in my room, you know, just playing video games,

00:19:31.200 you know, drinking beer. Just to try to get away from it. Just, yeah. I just didn't feel,

00:19:35.760 I, I just had no hope. I didn't know which way to go. I didn't know, you know, it was just,

00:19:42.980 it was absolutely a dark and it wasn't for a month. It wasn't for, you know, six months. It was for years,

00:19:49.640 you know, so it was very tough. And, and then what were you doing? Were you working

00:19:53.760 other jobs at the time? Like how were you making ends meet? Uh, my wife. So, uh, my wife got a

00:19:59.260 job. She was not working at the time. I lost. That must've been hard. Yeah. She had to go back

00:20:03.280 to work and it was a job I did not like, you know, she was doing. What was it? Nine one one

00:20:08.340 dispatcher. Okay. So, um, very stressful job. And then, you know, just a bad environment. I just

00:20:15.360 didn't like it. It just, I didn't want her there. What, but what about it was bad to you?

00:20:19.760 There was just a lot of infidelity there, you know, the cops and. Oh really? Yeah.

00:20:23.500 Wow. Yeah. I was known for that. Okay. And you know, I trust my wife and everything,

00:20:27.160 but still I just, you know, it was just one of those things where I did not like it there. And,

00:20:32.220 and so she was there and I, there was nothing I could do. You know, we had no money. It had

00:20:37.920 benefits. We were, she was pregnant with a, our first boy. Jeez. And scary. Yeah. So we had zero

00:20:45.240 money. I was pawning TVs and selling, you know, guns that weren't sentimental and off the wall. And,

00:20:51.680 you know, I mean, it was, it was, uh, very, very tight. Yeah. And so, uh, we did that. I didn't

00:21:00.460 get a paycheck from my company for a year and a half. Um, which company was this? United Wood

00:21:05.020 Products. So it was, it's not, not state. What were you doing? Like wood products? Yeah. We make

00:21:10.840 stair product. It was the stairs. Okay. All right. Got it. So I started that in Mexico and then we moved

00:21:15.120 it back to the States when the recession hit just cause I needed it closer to home. I couldn't, you know.

00:21:19.680 And so that business was struggling horribly. You weren't getting any income. Yeah. Went

00:21:23.680 from, you know, cause the construction business. Yeah. Went away for a while. Yeah. We went

00:21:27.980 from three or $400,000 a month within 90 days of starting the company. So we were doing four

00:21:33.880 or 5 million, you know, the first year to the second year we did $212,000. Oh, I mean,

00:21:40.640 brutal. I had, my mom was my secretary. I had to lay her off, you know, fire family members,

00:21:45.520 uh, had 17 employees in, in Utah. Um, most of our employees were in, in Mexico, but I had 17

00:21:52.140 family members that would help us with shipping and logistics. And I went down to one.

00:21:57.600 Was there any animosity or hard feelings there?

00:21:59.780 No, no, uh, no, we, you know, it was, it was, it was, I cried with them, you know, literally hugged

00:22:05.820 them and cried and, and, you know, it was devastating and they knew it wasn't my fault. You know,

00:22:10.980 as far as the recession, you know, I should have done things differently. I, I, I know that I could

00:22:15.440 have ran it differently and been better off. And, but yeah, it was, uh, it was a, you know,

00:22:21.880 beautiful thing the way it ended looking back. I mean, that's the hard thing with hard times is

00:22:27.360 when you're in them, you just cannot see the force for the trees. It just feels like I've been there

00:22:33.140 on relationships and fight and, and business wise. And it's just, and that's one thing I would tell

00:22:39.560 people out there is keep pushing, keep pushing, you know, you know, the sun will rise, you know.

00:22:45.680 It's interesting. Cause I mean, I've, I've been in challenging times. Everybody has. Right. And even

00:22:51.480 now I'm going through some challenging times and you say, keep pushing. And, and I say that,

00:22:56.060 and I believe that, and I am doing that. I just don't understand why anybody wouldn't like,

00:23:02.460 what, like what's the alternative? There is no alternative to that.

00:23:05.260 Well, there is, you know, there is, um, some people take a really hard way out. You know,

00:23:11.300 I have friends who took their lives, you know, because of money and our relationships. And,

00:23:16.260 and to me, you know, I always say that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem,

00:23:20.560 you know? Um, so there is, there is that, but beyond that, you know, I have friends who started

00:23:28.040 companies in the, you know, before the recession and they're like, I'm never going to start another

00:23:31.200 company. I'm never going to buy another rental property. And I'm like, you know, I'm never

00:23:36.120 going to get married again, you know? And it's like, no, that's not the lesson here.

00:23:39.960 The lesson is, is why did that relationship not work out? You know, adjust, pivot, adapt. You know,

00:23:46.460 why did that business not work out? You were straddled with debt, you know, you, you know,

00:23:51.720 had too much inventory. There's lessons to learn in all of it. Yeah. And so I think that's what

00:23:56.380 you're doing here. You know, it's like, I think you, you discredit yourself by saying,

00:24:00.420 oh, I'm not, you know, I'm just, I have no choice. What am I going to do? I got to wake

00:24:03.600 up in the morning. And it's like, yeah, but you're doing things that are different than

00:24:08.580 what you were doing. They got you into these situations and that is different. Right.

00:24:15.740 So if you were doing the same thing you did, you know, six months ago that you're doing today,

00:24:20.360 then yeah, you're not, you're just, you know, going through the motions.

00:24:25.140 Yeah. I guess that's true. There, there are a lot of people who would just

00:24:28.540 assume they could continue their course of action and somehow their external circumstance would be

00:24:33.240 different, even though they're not doing anything different. Yeah. It was, you know, it was basically

00:24:38.280 when I went through those hard times and lost everything, you know, I ducked my head. I started

00:24:42.660 reading books, you know, I started, you know, I tried to educate myself on why did my businesses,

00:24:49.660 you know, why did this happen or why did that happen? And that way, when it came back around,

00:24:54.880 the second time I used baseball analogies, even though I don't play baseball or watch it,

00:24:59.060 but it's like, you know, I missed the first three, you know, two pitches. And so I adjusted my grip,

00:25:05.400 you know, I changed my stance, whatever it is. And that third pitch came, I was ready for it. You

00:25:09.700 know, people always say, I got lucky. You know, I hear that a lot. Yeah. I'm sure you do too. Of

00:25:13.480 course. Ryan's so lucky. And it's like, no, do you know, for every one success I had,

00:25:19.200 I had nine failures, you know, but I kept pushing through the failures. I hear you talk about that

00:25:25.520 a lot where it's, you know, we sit around you and we know how successful you are in your business.

00:25:30.400 And it's like, wow, you're, you know, you're, you're a genius. And you're like, oh, I'm not a

00:25:34.380 genius. I just, I'm, I'm persistent. And I'm, uh, what's the other word? Just consistent.

00:25:41.500 Consistent. Yeah. That's a big deal. You know, most people aren't that. Yeah. Most people are

00:25:47.480 not that. And so that's why you've risen above the crowd and you're successful.

00:25:53.780 Are you ever when, so when you had that, all those, the problems with the business and all of that,

00:25:59.280 when other opportunities arose, were you gun shy? Was there like, I'm not doing that. I'm not

00:26:05.060 investing here. I'm not doing that. And if that was the case, how did you overcome that?

00:26:09.140 Yeah. I was absolutely, you know, I was terrified of debt, you know, my personality

00:26:15.180 in the beginning was swing for the fence and, and now, you know, I swung and struck out, so

00:26:19.600 I'm not going to swing as hard. And I didn't, you know, I was more cautious. I had, I had a new baby

00:26:24.600 at that time. You know, my wife was pregnant when we literally lost our house. Um, and so

00:26:30.160 what did you guys do then? We short sold it and moved into my grandparents' basement.

00:26:33.900 You did? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 30, 31 years old, 32 years old with a baby, brand new baby who was in

00:26:40.860 living at grandma and grandpa's. Yeah. In the NICU? Mm-hmm. He was born earlier? Uh, no, he,

00:26:46.260 I don't know the exact thing, but he had, um, had a bowel movement in the, you know, in the sack.

00:26:52.420 Okay. And so I don't know what that's called, but he had inhaled it. Oh, really? Yeah. And so it

00:26:58.360 was actually interesting because we had him in the NICU, you know, and he's like eight pounds

00:27:01.380 and usually NICU babies are like two pounds. Yeah. And all the little nurses were like,

00:27:05.860 we love having him, you know, he's this big, healthy baby. Yeah. Yeah. And so they got a

00:27:10.880 bond with him and. Yeah. Cause Brecken was born four weeks early. Oh wow. I didn't know that.

00:27:15.620 But he was never the NICU. Yeah. He was close. You're close. Yeah. Because he, he was, I think

00:27:21.160 he was five-ish pounds if I remember right. Oh wow. Yeah. Light. Really light. Cause he was

00:27:24.860 small. He was four weeks. And he had really bad jaundice. Yep. And so every day I remember

00:27:31.780 they had to prick his heel to test his, I think it's called bilirubin. Those are his, his, I think

00:27:38.400 it's his liver. Yeah. Liver, uh, function function. And he was borderline. If it's doesn't get any

00:27:44.780 better in the next 24 hours, 48 hours, like he's going to the NICU. So stressful. Yeah. You know,

00:27:49.360 definitely. And that's, that's it. We're going through this horrible financial situation.

00:27:54.380 $600,000 of debt from the company that I couldn't get rid of because I guaranteed the

00:27:58.980 $600,000. $640,000. Jeez. And, uh, you know, we had a couple thousand in inventory, but most

00:28:06.160 of it was just wasted and trying to hold on longer than we should have. You know, we didn't

00:28:11.200 know the recession, what it was going to be. So you try to hold on and keep people around

00:28:14.600 payroll. Um, you know, but yeah, most of it was just lost in bad management. How, what

00:28:22.100 did you do with that debt? Paid it off. Oh, you did nine years, nine years to pay it off

00:28:26.440 nine years to dig out of that hole. Holy cow. And you know, you, I could have declared bankruptcy

00:28:31.260 or something like that, but it was guaranteed. The loans were guaranteed by my grant, my dad's

00:28:35.720 ranch. Oh, so I'm stuck. Yeah. And I, in hindsight, what does, what does, what did he have to say

00:28:41.440 about that as far as that it was stuck or that we paid it off? Yeah. He was stressed. Yeah. You

00:28:47.340 know, my dad's really good about not putting point in blame. You know, I look back on that

00:28:51.960 and really appreciate that, that he just says it's happening to everybody. You know, it's

00:28:57.400 nothing you did necessarily. And he never rubbed my nose in it. Did that $640,000 accrue against

00:29:04.100 the ranch over time? Yeah. Or was it all at once? No, it was over time. And he was just funneling

00:29:08.720 money into the business. Well, we got loans. Right. So yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. It was

00:29:13.020 like, we started it with 350,000 and then we're like, man, we need some more inventory. You

00:29:18.720 know, we need a delivery truck. You know, we need, we'll take out another a hundred thousand

00:29:22.140 dollar loan. And he was willing to secure that for you. Yeah. Why? I think just, you know,

00:29:28.560 just faith in me. Was he an owner in the business? Oh yeah. Yeah. So he bought out, yeah. Yeah.

00:29:33.420 So he bought out my, the first loan he gave us for 150,000. He wasn't an owner. Okay.

00:29:39.400 And then I did start that company with another buddy and he was in construction building homes

00:29:44.480 and he lost everything. Was he doing stairs? What's Titan stairs? My dad was. Oh, your

00:29:50.100 dad. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My other partner wasn't. Yeah. My dad started. That's what I

00:29:53.220 meant. Yeah. Your dad. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He started that out up in the eighties in Vegas. Oh

00:29:57.960 really? And then sold that out. And I think that's where I got my entrepreneurial mind, you know,

00:30:02.760 because I look at my dad, this farmer from Utah and, you know, he's got a beautiful ranch

00:30:10.840 worth, you know, a lot of money. And I always looked at that and thought, you know, you can't

00:30:16.500 achieve from, from start to, you know, from, it's very hard to achieve that through somebody

00:30:22.460 else telling you how much you can make, you know, an employee. And so I kind of watched his

00:30:27.220 story and what he was doing. And I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. You know, I've always

00:30:31.220 just thought that's, that's what I'm going to do. So, um, yeah, it was very difficult.

00:30:37.440 I mean, yeah, it was stressful. We didn't know if we were going to make it. Hindsight, you

00:30:41.400 know, it worked out, but you know, for them to not have made, and I think looking back,

00:30:47.900 it was the best thing that ever could have happened to me because I couldn't quit. You

00:30:52.100 know, I tell people don't give up, you know, persevere. I don't know if I would have,

00:30:57.360 if I didn't have to with my family's ranch on the line.

00:31:01.580 What would, what would quitting have been? Bankruptcy?

00:31:04.200 Bankruptcy and start over, you know, just, just, yeah. And I don't agree with those. You

00:31:09.260 know, my, my dad actually declared bankruptcy. This is a cool story about his character. He

00:31:12.800 declared bankruptcy from a construction company in the, uh, I think the eighties, seventies.

00:31:20.060 Okay. Uh, got divorced and kind of checked out and the company fell apart and he declared

00:31:26.940 bankruptcy and he actually went back. I think 14 years later after he sold his business in

00:31:31.280 Vegas and paid those people back for the, for the people that he kind of walked away from

00:31:35.840 that debt. Really? Yeah. Paid the people back, paid the people back that he had declared bankruptcy

00:31:40.640 on and squared up so that he could hold his head up. Wow. So that's kind of my mentor. You

00:31:45.960 know, he's my stepdad. Yeah. My real dad had passed away at 28. Uh, so yeah, you know,

00:31:52.600 that's, that's kind of the, the mentor I had, you know, and that's, that's, I like hearing

00:31:56.980 stories like this and stories isn't the right way to say it because I mean, it is, it is

00:32:01.800 your story, but it's life. It's not, it is, it's a little story. It is, but we look, I just

00:32:07.360 don't think story does it justice because I, it almost belittles it. Yeah. It's not just a

00:32:14.780 story. It's like the blood and the sweat and the tears and the sleepless nights and the

00:32:19.740 hopelessness and the fear. And yeah, I was actually just on my wife's podcast. Uh, it,

00:32:25.800 my episode came out today and I was listening to it in the tree stand for a minute and it's

00:32:29.620 you listen to your own podcast episodes. That's what people say to me. Yeah. It's my second

00:32:34.580 one. I love to hear myself talk. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's my second one.

00:32:38.800 So I'm like, Oh, but, uh, I listened to it and it's a 60 minute can, you know, condensed

00:32:45.940 version of this, you know, it's basically our financial story, how we went from losing

00:32:50.520 everything to traveling the world. And it just, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's where

00:32:58.720 the story doesn't do it justice because it's a 60 minute story. Exactly. But you cannot, you

00:33:04.180 know, my wife holding me while I'm crying, you know, and devastated that I'm a failure

00:33:08.780 and, and the fights, you know, about trying not to spend money and don't go get your hair

00:33:13.540 done and, you know, just grinding it out for years and years. And I think that's where a

00:33:19.920 lot of people lose it is, you know, they want what you have Ryan, you know, with this, this

00:33:25.460 movement you're doing, I know it's, it's inspired a lot of people to, you know, chip off

00:33:30.380 and it's like, and it's like, good luck, you know, nine years, seven years you've been

00:33:35.000 doing this. It doesn't happen overnight. No. And there's so many, and this is just life

00:33:40.860 in general. I'm thinking about, as you were talking about what happened with you

00:33:45.200 guys, it's such, when you hear it now, it just seems like such a short period of

00:33:51.260 time. Yeah. And even for my own life, when I've had challenges in my own life, whether

00:33:55.800 it's five years ago, nine years ago, 15, 20 years ago, like I remember in 2005 is

00:34:05.120 when I was in Iraq. And so to think about that being 17 years, you know, 16, 17 years

00:34:13.300 ago, it's like, and that was hard. That was challenging mentally. I had to leave my wife

00:34:18.440 and now it doesn't even seem like anything. I know. Yeah. Or when I was starting my financial

00:34:25.740 planning practice, how stressed out I was not being able to make the mortgage payment

00:34:30.880 and then it was successful and it's like, yeah, but it wasn't just a click of the, no,

00:34:35.780 it was like, there's a lot of all the time and the sleepless nights. And like you said,

00:34:40.080 the fights and the arguments and yeah. And I think that's what's sad about when I hear about

00:34:44.700 suicide, you know, anybody out there, you know, going through that or contemplating

00:34:49.980 that it's like, you know, it can change. It can, it may take some work and some time,

00:34:56.620 but eventually, you know, from the guys that I know that made it through it and out the

00:35:00.280 other side, it was just a little, a little chapter, you know? And so that's where you

00:35:06.200 hate to see these people make permanent decisions that, you know.

00:35:09.480 Well, and it's not only that, but it affects everything else because those people have

00:35:13.080 family. They might have kids or a spouse or parents at the least, you know, and not only

00:35:19.420 that, but also what their life could have been had they decided to make a different decision

00:35:26.180 for the better because they could have taken their experience, their horrific, horrible

00:35:33.840 experience and shared it and turned it into something that kept somebody else out of that

00:35:39.460 situation. Absolutely. I think the best, you know, priests, bishops, therapists are the

00:35:44.120 ones who've been in those dark days. Yeah. You know, that they can relate. I've got a friend

00:35:49.000 and early mentor, Sean Whalen. I think you know of him. Yeah. And he says, your mess is your

00:35:54.340 message. Oh, I like that. That makes sense. It's easy. You know, especially if you're looking

00:35:59.300 at doing something like this. Yeah. But even if you're not, how do you inspire people? How do you

00:36:04.600 motivate? How do you lead with your mess? Yeah. The things that you've done wrong, the, the,

00:36:09.940 where you've messed up, where you've struggled, where you're talking about bankrupt, potential

00:36:14.440 bankruptcy, lost, lost, you know, businesses. Yeah. That's what you share. Yeah. I never would

00:36:20.860 have thought, you know, in a million years in those days, you know, when I'm sitting in my

00:36:26.360 room, just hiding from the world that someday I would be talking about it and, you know, and

00:36:33.260 trying to help other people, you know, it's like, I know that never crossed my mind. I'm

00:36:36.580 trying to fix myself. That's interesting. Hiding from the world. So you were drinking,

00:36:40.540 you were, you said playing video games, doing whatever you could do. I'd lock myself in my

00:36:45.620 room. I was married, you know, no kids yet. My wife would come in and try to drag me out

00:36:49.560 and I'm like, I, I don't want to go out there. I just did. What would she do when she's try

00:36:54.840 to like say stuff, motivate you, yell at you, everything, everything, you know, whatever

00:36:59.500 she could do. Yeah. Whatever she'd do. I mean. And then what, was there something that clicked

00:37:04.160 for you where you're like, okay, yeah, I got to stand up and face this or no. Was it just

00:37:08.860 gradually like, okay, we're going to work through this. There wasn't like an aha moment. You know,

00:37:12.980 I think that's what people are looking for, you know, lightning to strike or something. It wasn't,

00:37:17.260 it was just, you know, I had to, I had to do it. You know, what else am I going to do? Like you

00:37:23.340 said, you know, I don't think there's any other option. I think there are times where it's just put

00:37:27.160 one foot in front of the other, you know, my mom, uh, she tells a story about when, so she,

00:37:32.900 you know, had a high school sweetheart and married to him, uh, two kids with him, pregnant with me,

00:37:40.800 a veteran, you know, and he got a, he got sick and got, had a brain aneurysm and passed away.

00:37:48.940 This is your dear father, my real dad. Yeah. And while you were, you weren't born yet. I wasn't born

00:37:55.040 yet. He died in January. I was born in May. Um, and she said she probably would have killed

00:37:59.500 herself if it wasn't for me and the kids, you know, she says I was, she was just done. Yeah.

00:38:04.160 Devastated. Of course. No. Yeah. You can't blame her. And still to this day, you know,

00:38:09.040 it's been 40 years and you know, she sees a flag or military, anything patriotic reminds her cause he

00:38:14.080 was a, uh, uh, you know, military. She cries, you know, and it's beautiful. You know, it's, it's,

00:38:20.240 it's cute that she, uh, cute, but she, it's, it's a beautiful thing that she has that still

00:38:26.100 that love for him, you know? And, um, but she was talking about how she would sit in the bathroom

00:38:33.340 and look at the clock on the wall and watch the minutes change. And she'd be like, man,

00:38:38.780 I just got to get through this minute. And then I got to get through that minute. And she was going

00:38:43.300 by the minutes. And I look, I think about that, you know, and this, again, it's her story. It's just a

00:38:48.260 quick sentence. I can't put myself in her shoes of sitting on the toilet, staring at the clock,

00:38:54.460 trying to get through the minutes. And I'm sure there's people out there doing the same thing

00:38:58.420 right now, trying to get through the minutes, you know, and I encourage them to keep fighting the

00:39:03.840 fight because now she married, you know, four years later, she married my stepdad and we have a

00:39:09.920 beautiful family and a beautiful life. And, you know, that was a chapter that was obviously scarred her

00:39:18.020 for life, but she dug out of it and she smiles wherever she goes and she has her bad days,

00:39:23.320 but she's okay. Bad days about even now? Oh yeah. 40 years later. His birthday.

00:39:31.160 It's a hard one for her. Oh yeah. The day he died, the day he was born.

00:39:34.480 How does your stepfather, how's he about that? It's hard.

00:39:38.140 Yeah, I bet. You know, it's real. You know, you want to, you want, you want to think that he's a

00:39:42.020 saint and, you know, he, he drives over to the cemetery with her and honors this guy, but he,

00:39:48.100 really? No, you want to think that, but it's hard that, you know, he, he, he has, there's this,

00:39:54.560 there's a little bit of jealousy there. Of course. How could there not be? Yeah.

00:39:58.320 And that's the battle, you know, that's where, and he's been pretty good about, you know,

00:40:02.560 letting her have that. And, and Rick, my dad will always have a piece of my mom and they've,

00:40:11.040 they've worked it out, but it's, I'm sure there's always going to be something there,

00:40:15.460 you know? Yeah. It's a weird thing to come in after a tragedy. You know, I was born

00:40:20.240 and then raised, you know, you don't remember anything before you're five or whatever. So

00:40:24.260 all I've ever known is Kendall. And so it's just stories for me and it's, you know, but it's stories

00:40:29.820 with such power and sadness and loss and love that, um, it's a weird thing to see.

00:40:37.640 Yeah, it is. It is. I, I, yeah, I don't know. I don't can't relate. No, I don't know. And

00:40:42.460 that's again, I've been there. That's again, like you said, you know, that's where these people who

00:40:45.400 have gone through divorce, I've never had a divorce. I can't relate, you know, I've never

00:40:50.520 whatever. So I think these people who have gone through these things and, and come out the other

00:40:56.140 side successful, you know, some of them, you know, don't, but the ones that, that learn how to

00:41:02.320 take that, you know, problem and turn it into a solution should definitely help people that,

00:41:08.540 you know, and you don't have to be on a podcast. You don't have to write a book.

00:41:11.380 No. Grab your buddy. Yeah. Grab a beer and, and, you know, and have a conversation. And I think

00:41:18.420 that's like, you're saying, you know, I wish I encourage more men to do that.

00:41:22.340 All right, guys, let me take a brief hold or pause on the conversation with Rick around this

00:41:28.880 time of year. Most men start thinking about new year's resolutions. In fact, maybe if you've,

00:41:33.080 as you've heard us talk today, you've been thinking about what you want to accomplish and

00:41:36.240 what you want to overcome. And most guys think about what they're going to do next year, but why,

00:41:41.960 why wait, just do it now, start now. But the challenge is knowing where to start and what exactly

00:41:47.260 to do. And while I can't tell you what to do, no man can tell you what you should do.

00:41:52.080 What I can do is give you access to a free tool that will teach you exactly how to identify

00:41:57.920 your most pressing challenges and objectives, and then actually drive you towards the action

00:42:03.200 that has kept you from accomplishing what you desire. So again, it's not about me and what I

00:42:07.860 want you to do. It's about helping you identify what you believe you should do. And this is called,

00:42:13.460 the 30 days to battle ready program. And when you sign up to this free tool, you'll gain access to

00:42:18.840 17 emails, each design to be delivered to you in a very precise way, a very precise order to achieve

00:42:26.220 maximum results. If you're ready to take your life to the next level, then join the 30 days to battle

00:42:31.940 ready program right now. You can do that at order of man.com slash battle ready order of man.com slash

00:42:39.100 battle ready. All right, guys, get that done for now. I'll get back to it with Rick.

00:42:43.460 Well, that's the thing is they don't, we just don't talk. No, you know, I've had things go

00:42:49.340 wrong in my life. And when I share them, actually the catalyst for this podcast was when my wife and

00:42:56.180 I went through our separation, I was talking with some guys because I needed it. It was therapeutic

00:43:02.660 for me. And they're like, Oh yeah, I went through that. Or I was dealing with that. And then I started

00:43:07.860 talking about my dad, not really being in the picture and guys are like, yeah, my dad wasn't around.

00:43:13.440 And I never learned this and I never learned that. And I never did this or really, you know,

00:43:19.200 and it's everything that I ever shared that I thought was so wrong about my life, whether it

00:43:24.000 was of my own making or external circumstances, everybody else was going through it. And nobody

00:43:30.680 was talking about it.

00:43:31.320 Yeah. Mercy loves company, you know, and that's,

00:43:33.740 but still not really though.

00:43:35.140 Yeah.

00:43:36.040 Because I mean, I know what you're saying, but how many guys are listening to this right

00:43:40.920 now? We're what, 40 minutes into this podcast and they're like, yeah, yeah, this is me.

00:43:47.280 Yep. Yep.

00:43:47.900 Yeah.

00:43:48.400 I've done, I've been there and they haven't shared it with anybody. So yeah, misery loves

00:43:52.060 company because we want strangers to be miserable like us, but we're not willing to share it with

00:43:57.680 their friends who would at least at a minimum, put their arm around your shoulder and say,

00:44:02.060 yeah, it's all right, bro. You can do this. Or, Hey, let's go, let's go on a hunt or let's

00:44:06.440 go for a drive.

00:44:07.440 Absolutely.

00:44:08.140 Or let's, let's, you know, get away, do a long weekend somewhere this weekend and go

00:44:11.780 to a game.

00:44:12.460 Right.

00:44:12.720 But you got to open your mouth and you got to, you just got to share it.

00:44:16.520 Yeah. When I was going through all my financial struggles, you know, I, I was ashamed of it.

00:44:21.240 You know, people were like, that's a good point. You know, people were like, Oh, you sold your

00:44:24.680 truck, you sold your house. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I sold it. It got repossessed. You know,

00:44:30.160 you didn't want them to know that.

00:44:31.360 I was so embarrassed and, and ashamed. And I think that's with men, you know, it's like if

00:44:37.200 you're fighting with your wife or you're, you got a drinking problem or you got, you know,

00:44:40.960 financial troubles, you're ashamed of it and you don't want to talk about that. You

00:44:45.700 know, we want to act like everything's perfect in our lives and it's not, it's not, it's

00:44:50.640 not, you know, in my life right now, things aren't perfect. You know, yeah, maybe my financial

00:44:55.000 game's strong. Well, you know, if you give too much to your financial game, you, you lose

00:45:01.080 the relationship game. If you give too much to the relationship game and the financial

00:45:04.560 game, you're, you know, your health game goes on. So yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know,

00:45:12.300 it's a weird kind of deal, but yeah, I think men need to definitely, I hope, you know, more

00:45:17.960 men will learn how to open up.

00:45:21.040 Well, let's talk about shame for a minute because we hear that and we think, and even

00:45:27.320 what you just said, there's a negative connotation to it. You shouldn't be ashamed, right? You

00:45:33.660 should say, well, no, maybe actually you should. Yeah. Right. If you're doing things

00:45:40.360 that you shouldn't be doing and it's producing results that you don't desire, right? A little

00:45:45.720 healthy dose of shame, although painful might just be the kick in the nuts that you need

00:45:53.620 to change. It's when you take it to the extreme, like I'm ashamed. And so I'm going

00:46:00.900 to hide from the world and I'm going to withdraw and I'm going to retreat and I'm going to

00:46:05.320 call myself a loser and maybe even heaven forbid and not to take it lightly, stick a

00:46:09.720 gun in my mouth. Absolutely. Yeah. But when you say I'm ashamed, I messed up, I screwed

00:46:15.080 up and I don't want to feel this way. Right. So here's the changes I'm willing to make in

00:46:19.740 my life. Right. Then it's the shame. It's the emotion of that shame that drives you to

00:46:25.420 do better. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a good point. You know, I think, you know, I think

00:46:31.700 when a good friend, if you go to somebody and you say, look, you know, I'm a, you know,

00:46:37.740 I'm an alcoholic, you know, and a good friend would say, don't do that. That's wrong. You

00:46:44.440 know, I love you, but I can't, I'm not going to say, Oh, that's okay. It's okay. Don't sweat

00:46:48.820 it. Right. A good friend would say that is wrong. You need to fix that. And I'm here for

00:46:54.520 you. How can I help you? You know, whatever I can do. And so, yeah, absolutely. You know,

00:47:00.660 that's a good point. The shame, you know, I, I made mistakes. I did things wrong in the

00:47:05.520 financial, you know, aspect of things. And I should have been ashamed for probably some

00:47:09.880 of the things that I had done. And, you know, so. Is there still any sort of, it sounds

00:47:15.880 like from a financial perspective, you've rectified a lot of that by paying it off. But how do you,

00:47:21.900 how does even just a guy in general overcome the nagging sense of shame? So let's say, you

00:47:30.620 know, you, you screwed somebody over or you've done something that, that you, that you feel

00:47:35.800 ashamed about and, but you've rectified it to the ability that you can. The hard part

00:47:40.320 is other people have a say in the matter. Absolutely. Yeah. That's hard. So you don't

00:47:45.080 have everything within your control. Absolutely. And so you've done everything you possibly can.

00:47:49.360 And, and that's good because you've shorted up, but then there's a lagging sense of shame.

00:47:54.680 Yeah. How do you overcome that? I think it, I think it, just like you said,

00:48:00.080 how to get through it, you know, it, it slowly dissipates, you know, over, um, I try to help

00:48:06.560 people. That's the big thing for me is giving back. You know, I'm, it's a good point. You know,

00:48:10.880 a couple of our buddies here, you know, Wayne, you know, I'm, I'm working with him heavily on

00:48:14.680 his financial freedom. Um, that's probably a way for me to quell that shame.

00:48:21.920 That's a good, I didn't think about that, but that's a really good point.

00:48:24.780 Yeah. You kinda, you kinda, you know, if I can help other people avoid it, then, then

00:48:29.240 maybe that helps me, you know, justify what I, what I did.

00:48:33.280 Right. It was, it was necessary for you to be in that position.

00:48:36.620 Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that there, like, I know your, your, your stance on spirituality

00:48:44.240 and I won't go there unless you want to, but do you think, do you think that those obstacles

00:48:51.020 are placed there for a reason or do you think it's just all happenstance or just it is what

00:48:56.320 it is? And I don't, you know, that's a good question. Um, as far as the financial struggles

00:49:02.380 and stuff like that, just, just obstacles in general, just stuff that happens in life.

00:49:07.140 I, I don't, I don't believe that anybody put it in front of me. You know, I think it's,

00:49:11.160 I think it's, uh, I don't know that it's random, but, um, yeah, I think, I think everybody's

00:49:17.920 got their own struggles. If I start going down the rabbit hole of, you know, this was given

00:49:23.040 to that child or, you know, whatever, I have a hard time with that. You know, I don't like

00:49:27.040 thinking that going down that road. Um, but whether, whether it was put in front of me

00:49:34.140 for a reason or not, I'm grateful for him, you know, and that's a weird thing, you know,

00:49:38.020 where, um, it's made me, you know, you hear all these stories about, you know, you have

00:49:43.500 to go through it to, to, to become a better, stronger person. And I do believe in that, you

00:49:47.700 know, uh, you know, I read a lot of business books and a lot of self-help books and they

00:49:52.980 kind of all say the same thing where, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

00:49:56.260 Yeah. And I agree with that. You know, I think without struggle, you know, I, I, I encourage

00:50:02.620 people, you know, to, you know, I had somebody, Oh, what were they saying the other day? Oh,

00:50:09.080 we were duck hunting with that Dr. J. And I says, how'd you get into this? And he says,

00:50:13.240 you know, I never hunted. And my brother-in-law called me and says, you want to come down to

00:50:17.240 South Dakota and hunt ducks? And I thought, I don't really want to do that. And he says, I

00:50:20.360 just opened my mouth and said, yes. Right. Cause why not? And he says,

00:50:25.900 I didn't like, I never thought of hunting now, you know, he's addicted. And so what

00:50:32.020 you guys were taught, you were so loud. That's why we weren't killing very many ducks. That's

00:50:35.420 what you guys are talking about after the hunt. I love duck hunting. I've never duck hunted,

00:50:40.160 but anybody that's ever duck hunted, apparently you can talk and the ducks don't care.

00:50:44.840 Well, I don't know if they care. Yeah, they have to care. I thought it was funny. You're

00:50:49.140 like, wait, they don't hear you. And then all of a sudden you make a call, but they hear the

00:50:52.960 call. Yeah. Yeah. We're sitting there calling them. And then Matt's like, yeah, chatting away.

00:50:56.440 And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. The guide, Matt, he was a little, you know, yeah. We gave

00:51:01.760 him like two and a quarter stars. Pretty bad, pretty bad review, but no, yeah, it was fun,

00:51:08.040 man. That was a good experience. And that's, you know, where I'm at in my life and the obstacles

00:51:14.440 got me here. You know, it allows me to feel better about myself cause I overcame them.

00:51:19.060 Oh yeah. That's a good point. You know, a lot of people, if life was easy, it would

00:51:23.800 be boring. You know, I just, I, I, I think the struggle and I don't know. Sometimes I'm

00:51:29.360 like, you know, absolutely. Absolutely. You want to win. You need a win. And those happen.

00:51:33.940 Sometimes it just, you know, you go out in a deer stand, you know, I, the first day we

00:51:38.040 went duck hunting, we didn't see much. Right. And my mind was funny cause I'm sitting there

00:51:41.160 on the bank and I thought, I'm glad it went this way because the moment we get a duck, it's

00:51:47.960 going to be better. And it did, you know? Um, so well for me, yeah, yeah, yeah. You smoked

00:51:55.860 them, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't think I did. No, no, no. Yeah. It's hard. Everybody's

00:52:03.360 shooting. Yeah. Four people shooting one or two more than I actually got. Yeah. We got

00:52:07.120 five, right? Shot three, you know, it's like the biggest. Yeah. Yeah. Down on the end.

00:52:12.520 We don't know, but yeah, it's, uh, so what you were saying is you don't think that those

00:52:18.940 are placed there like deliberately. That's where you and I differ. I was going to say you

00:52:23.880 do believe. I do. Okay. I believe that there's a reason that you went through what you went

00:52:29.240 and I didn't do that. I didn't go through that. Yeah. That's interesting. And, and it might

00:52:34.300 just be your personality. It might, might've been a lesson that you need to learn that I

00:52:38.960 didn't just like I've gone through the things that you haven't because maybe you don't need

00:52:42.560 to learn those lessons. Right. You're, you're short up, but I'm not. And so I need to learn

00:52:46.180 those. Um, or I don't know. I actually don't know, but I, but I am confident there's a plan.

00:52:52.700 I w I wish I had that. I'm envious of that. You know, people ask me, you know, do you believe

00:52:57.160 in God or not? And I don't ever say yes or no. You know, I don't, I don't, I'm just kind

00:53:01.500 of like, I don't know where I fit, but I do one thing that I do envy about people who

00:53:07.660 are religious and who have that is, it's just to have that comfort of something like

00:53:14.400 that, I think would be what that would be. It can be comforting because in the midst

00:53:18.760 of hell, there's always, this is going to be okay. I love that. There was a podcast I

00:53:25.600 listened to on the podcast is called real ones. I think if you, it's by the Shia LaBeouf

00:53:32.920 or whatever that guy's name is. Yeah. I've seen little bits and pieces of it. Looked like

00:53:36.860 a really good interview. Bro, listen to that podcast. Dude, he's deep. He's deep. That

00:53:41.280 was, he's very intelligent. He is. That was one of the most profound hour, hour and a

00:53:47.960 half that I've ever spent listening to something. I'll have to listen. I just saw clips on Instagram

00:53:52.320 and they're everywhere. And he was saying, he said, what did he say? He said in the end,

00:53:58.780 everything's going to be okay. And if it's not okay right now, then it's not the end.

00:54:03.220 Yeah. I was like, Whoa, that's good. And I have that to a degree. You could be going through

00:54:08.420 pure hell and then, but you always have this little thing in the back that says it's going

00:54:15.900 to be okay. Yeah. It's good. Like, yeah. You're going to get through this. You're going to get,

00:54:19.980 yeah. You're going to get through this. It's going to suck for a while. It's going to be okay.

00:54:25.380 You're going to do what you need to do. Yeah. Life's going to be okay.

00:54:28.160 And I, and I envy that. And I do have that, you know, I'm one of the, I'm, I'm an eternal

00:54:34.420 optimist. You know, I am that. So there is something in me that. What is, okay. So here's

00:54:40.640 something and maybe this isn't like a totally fair question, but I'll just, I'll just throw

00:54:46.860 this out there. Cause I've, you're not, would you say you're an atheist or agnostic?

00:54:52.560 Atheist means you do not believe in God, right? No, I'm like in between.

00:54:55.740 So agnostic where you don't know. Yeah. Yes. If that's the term, yes.

00:55:00.380 So I think that's what it is. So, okay. Yeah. I, and I believe there's a God.

00:55:05.420 Yeah. Right. So I have an internal perspective and I, I have in my mind a reason why we're

00:55:12.020 here. Yeah. But what do you have? And I'm not saying that like negatively, I mean, I'm

00:55:16.900 genuinely asking what is it that drives you or propels you forward?

00:55:19.980 I, you know, I look at life, uh, Jean always gets mad. My wife, you know, where I just tell

00:55:24.800 her that life's like a video game to me, you know, uh, we're playing it the best we can

00:55:29.180 and you, you know, but what's the point to just, to me, it's to be a good person.

00:55:36.360 And where does that derive from? I'm not trying to paint you and I'm like, no, I'm actually

00:55:40.760 very curious. I like it. No, where does that? It's good. It's good. To be a good person.

00:55:44.820 Why does that matter? Because why, why would you not want to be, you know, I love you.

00:55:49.380 I love, you know, Wayne. You're just saying that cause he walked in. I know. If he wasn't

00:55:53.820 in here, you wouldn't be saying that. I'd be saying a lot worse. Wayne, you want to come

00:55:56.580 say hello? You want to come say hello? I know you're a long time listener. Yeah. You

00:56:00.960 want to. Yeah. Um, I, you know, Jean always says that she's like, if you don't have that

00:56:10.560 belief, then why aren't you just out there raping and pillaging people, you know? And

00:56:14.100 it's like, no, I mean, yeah, that's to the extreme, but yeah, she's joking, but it's

00:56:18.240 like, no, I, I, if there, you know, I, I just, uh, I spoke at my grandpa's funeral, you know,

00:56:24.060 and everybody always says, uh, what's the saying? It's better to live like there is a

00:56:30.120 God and find out there isn't than to live like there isn't and find out there is.

00:56:33.560 Yeah. And I, and I always, I twisted that at the funeral because I had a lot of people,

00:56:37.960 uh, I spent a lot of time with my grandpa. I loved him. He was my best friend.

00:56:42.100 And I didn't have that, that, that, um, knowledge or guarantee that I would see him in another

00:56:49.300 life. And so I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to spend as much time with him as I could. And

00:56:53.460 we were inseparable, Alaska, you know, traveling all over the world together. And my sister came

00:56:59.300 up and she says, I wish I would have spent more time with grandpa, you know? And she says,

00:57:03.440 but it's okay. I'll see him in the next life. And I says, I hope so. I a hundred percent hope

00:57:07.980 so. Yeah. But I'm going to get it here. And so my kind of, my values are, I teach my boys,

00:57:14.240 I've got three little boys, be a good person, give, give more than you take. Just cause I don't

00:57:19.680 have that religion doesn't mean I don't believe in the fundamentals of being a good person. And

00:57:24.240 this is a beautiful life and I love it. And I encourage them to wake up and travel the world

00:57:29.520 and, you know, read books and, and just experience like a video game, experience it all, you know,

00:57:35.400 go into this room, go into that room, experience it all and be a good person. And if, when the

00:57:41.040 lights go out, you know, it comes on in another place, I'm all for it. And I will never deny

00:57:45.900 that. Why would I, you know, I think the people who deny it, it's like, you know, that there's

00:57:51.080 not, no, you can't know, you can't know there is, and you can't know that there's not as far

00:57:54.640 as I'm concerned. And so, um, you know, I love life. I've always loved life. I told you

00:58:00.760 my dad died at 28. I've always thought I was going to die when I'm younger. I don't know

00:58:04.240 why it was probably from that. And I've always just lived, you know, like I said, I, I retired

00:58:10.080 at 37 quote unquote, and we went and traveled and went to what? 40 countries over the course

00:58:16.640 of five years. And everybody's like, what are you doing? Are you dying? Literally I had most

00:58:21.520 of my, Oh, I had a buddy call me and he's like, dude, do you have like a terminal illness

00:58:27.200 or something? And I'm like, what? You're like, why would you think that? He's like, you're,

00:58:30.140 why are you, why are you traveling? You know? And I'm like, I want to. And so, you know, that's

00:58:36.200 kind of my take on life is just, do you think that, do you think the, so you think the lights

00:58:41.520 go out when we die? Yeah. Is that scary? It's terrifying. Cause to me, I've, I've thought

00:58:47.480 about, like, I believe in God, I believe in eternal life. Right. But also I'm like, well, what if

00:58:51.140 it's not? Yeah. Then you just, then you die and yeah. And that's it. Yeah. And that's

00:58:56.720 scary, but it really shouldn't because you're not going to know. Yeah. Yeah. There's a quote,

00:59:00.120 I think it's by Aristotle or somebody that talks about that. And they says, are you afraid

00:59:04.280 of death? And he says, I'm either going to be in heaven or I'm going to have a really

00:59:06.740 good long sleep. Not even that. Yeah. You won't know. Yeah. Because sleep, there's dreaming.

00:59:11.420 You're nothing. Yeah. Yeah. You're dust. And I don't like going down that, you know? And

00:59:15.880 that's where I, that's where my, you know, my rational brain starts going down

00:59:19.900 the road of, well, humans are pretty smart. It's pretty easy to not easy, but it's, it's

00:59:25.340 pretty nice to, to think of something that makes it not as scary. Yes. Sure. And I've

00:59:32.320 thought about that as well, you know? And so I go down that road, but you know, my mom

00:59:35.360 who had my dad pass away, she's a thousand percent sure that there's a heaven and I lean on her

00:59:40.900 faith, you know? And it's like, I hope that that is true. And, and I trust my mom and I love

00:59:48.440 my mom and she's a very, very smart woman and she's a thousand percent sure. So I'm

00:59:54.520 not going to rule it out.

00:59:55.640 See, so here's what's interesting. I don't, I don't agree with, with you on that perspective,

01:00:00.720 but at least it's reasonable where you're not like, no, he's not.

01:00:05.900 I have friends that argue with, you know, it's funny cause I'll get defending it. They're

01:00:09.040 like, you know, one guy will be like, there is a God. And I'm like, I don't know that there

01:00:12.240 is. And another guy is like, there isn't. And, and, uh, I'm like, maybe there is,

01:00:16.400 you know? So, um, but I have friends that get attacking and it's like, I, I, to, to know

01:00:21.420 either way. Um, I just, I'm one of those guys where it's like, I'm, I'm hopeful, you know?

01:00:27.940 And I know a lot of, a lot of friends and family have had, had feelings or religious, you know,

01:00:34.780 spiritual experiences. Sure. And I'm just waiting for mine. You know, I'm waiting for one that

01:00:39.980 have you had anything that you feel like is, I have not. That surprises me. Yeah. I wonder if,

01:00:46.000 because I have, yeah, most, most people, I've had moments where I'm like, well, we were talking

01:00:51.100 about Iraq in 2005 before I went, I just remember really praying. Cause I was, I was scared. Yeah.

01:00:57.260 I had a new wife at the time. I was like, I was scared. I can't imagine. And I remember praying

01:01:02.300 in my room and I, I, I'm not going to say vision cause it wasn't, that sounds crazy anyways,

01:01:09.100 but there was an experience that I was like, Oh no, this is real. Yeah. This is real.

01:01:15.500 Well, and our good friend Trevor, you know, that passed away, you know, change, change

01:01:19.320 his life. I was with him. Instantaneously. I was with him and it was, it went from partying

01:01:23.640 and crazy. You know, we were in Lake Havasu on spring break and he, you know, came out of

01:01:28.020 the campground and says, I'm going home with his girlfriend. He went home early. Went

01:01:31.800 home early and I was, he was my ride. Oh really? Yeah. Did you stay or did you? Yeah.

01:01:36.100 I'm not leaving. I didn't have a vision. It was a vision of mine. It's not my time. Yeah.

01:01:40.500 Yeah. I'm like, Oh, that's too bad for you, man. That ruined your party. But no, yeah,

01:01:44.600 he came over and was like, dude, something happened with me and Emily and they packed

01:01:48.080 up and left and went on their LDS and they went on missions and it took him like a year

01:01:52.880 to get, you know, uh, repent and to be able to serve that mission. And it's like, I know

01:02:00.400 Trevor and I love Trevor and something happened. And so things like that just make me think, I

01:02:06.360 think there might be. And I'm, and I'm hopeful and I'm just, you know, my mom always says,

01:02:12.920 you know, I need to, you can go search for it and find it. And I don't do that. I'm kind

01:02:16.560 of like waiting for it to fall in my lap. So that's probably wrong, but that's where I'm

01:02:20.300 at right now. Yeah. But how would you search? And I guess, I guess, pray, go to church.

01:02:25.620 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. She'd love that. I bet she would. Yeah. But how does that reconcile with

01:02:32.540 Gina? It sounds like Gina's spiritual. She was, she was more, I probably worn her

01:02:36.320 down a little bit on how she, you know, starting to believe a little bit more like me, but,

01:02:40.280 um, she's still very, you know, like I said, we travel around and we, you know, we try to

01:02:46.380 treat people like we'd want to be treated. And, you know, most religions, the fundamentals

01:02:52.140 are, are perfect, you know, don't steal, don't, you know, don't have affairs and all these things,

01:02:58.620 you know? And so it's like, right. You know, how can you argue with any of that? Yeah. So,

01:03:04.980 yeah. How is it, how is your, so I'm going to shift gears. Yeah. Cause you've been most of your

01:03:11.100 life entrepreneurial spirit. I mean, you still are obviously, but businesses in business. And now

01:03:17.440 you're kind of like a stay at home dad, because Gina, Gina, I are working to get all of us are

01:03:24.380 working together, but she started revitalized womanhood. Yeah. Yeah. You're a partner,

01:03:29.120 which is like a sister to order of man, which is, it's cool because I can't even describe how many

01:03:36.620 times I've heard from guys who are like, well, this is awesome. Where's this for women? Right.

01:03:41.480 And now we have it. Well, the way it came up, we were in Hawaii and I had just done a three month

01:03:45.620 road trip of the U S and I was wearing your hat, you know, just wearing a order man hat.

01:03:50.580 You're not right now. What do we got on? Sunset Lodge. Oh shoot. Disappointed.

01:03:54.900 Well, you're not filming it. So Wayne's doesn't have either of ours on. Yeah. Oh, he's got an

01:03:59.720 order man shirt on. That counts. Yeah. To an event he didn't even go to. Yeah. I just sent him a free

01:04:04.960 shirt. Poser. But yeah, so we were in Hawaii and I says, man, you know, I driving around the country,

01:04:11.980 I had a few people stop me and they're like, Oh, Ryan Mickler. I, you know, I love him. And I'm like,

01:04:15.920 are you serious? Oh yeah. Random people. Yeah. I was in Hawaii. No, around the U S. Well,

01:04:21.260 Hawaii's in the U S. Remember? Like we have to keep explaining that to you. Yeah.

01:04:24.660 Yeah. Talking Spanish to him. Um, yeah, we were in a, the one that really stuck out. I was in a hot

01:04:31.240 tub in Yuma, Arizona. Really? And I had a hat on and I grabbed it and went to throw it. And the guy's

01:04:37.920 like, Oh, your hat. And his wife's like, when are you going to start something for women? This has

01:04:42.220 changed my husband's life. That's awesome. They were homeschooling and road tripping the U S because of

01:04:47.840 you. That's awesome. And I'm like, wow, that's cool. And she's like, I need, and so I came to you and said,

01:04:53.160 Hey, you know, you should have Trish do this. And you're like, Oh, she doesn't want to. She's

01:04:57.080 good. You know? And she just, she wants to just, she wants to do it. Homeschool. Yeah. Be a homemaker.

01:05:02.920 Take care of the house. It's like me. It's great. Yeah. It's like me. Gina's like, you know,

01:05:06.480 come do this podcast with me. And I'm like, I don't, I've, I've done business. I quit my business

01:05:11.960 and I want to be with my kids and travel. That's, that's where I want to be. So if you want to do this,

01:05:17.160 you do it, but I don't want it. And so that's where I brought it up to you. And you're like,

01:05:21.360 well, yeah, Gina, I think would be good. And let's, let's, let's do it. Gina's awesome. I knew

01:05:26.060 she would be awesome. Yeah. She interviewed me. I think it was the first, was it the first episode?

01:05:30.960 Yeah. First episode. And I was like, dang, she's good at this already. Yeah. Cause I remember my

01:05:35.620 first episode. I was not nearly as good as she was. And it's terrifying. It is? No, not with you.

01:05:41.940 This is, I mean, like I said, in this environment, sitting on some chairs in her,

01:05:46.120 in her studio, she's got like lights on you and cameras. And yeah, that's more when you have a

01:05:50.460 camera cameras are hard. It's weird. It is weird. Especially if you have to, if you have to look

01:05:54.360 into the camera and talk, that's strange. Yeah. This is a lot nicer. So she's killing it. She's,

01:05:58.980 I knew, I knew before, but when I joined her on her podcast, I was like, Oh, she's going to crush

01:06:05.620 this. Yeah. You said that. Yeah. She's going to do really well. And she's loving it. You know,

01:06:08.600 she's, so yeah, she's got, she opened up the sisterhood, you know, 20, you know, three weeks

01:06:14.060 ago, something like that. She's got 20, 25 members. That's the, so just so the guys know

01:06:18.940 the sister, so it's revitalized womanhood and the sisterhood is revitalized sisterhood is like

01:06:24.880 the iron council. So it's her exclusive ladies membership where they have accountability.

01:06:29.900 They're talking and that kind of stuff. Yeah. And Wayne's wife, you know, he's sitting here

01:06:33.500 next to us. He, she just, Wayne's wife, my wife joined. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, my mom joined,

01:06:38.360 you know, and they're loving it, you know, literally, you know, I didn't know a lot about

01:06:43.600 how it all worked and all these different things. And it's, it's Gina is so excited. I mean,

01:06:49.540 she has just, it's her, you know, it's becoming her passion. So how's the, how's the fatherhood

01:06:56.140 thing right now? Like, how's that transition that change? It's a big side. It's good, man. You know,

01:07:03.720 it's, I have a lot of sympathy for the stay at home moms out there. You know, it's one

01:07:07.700 of those things where, like you said, you can't sympathize unless you've been in their

01:07:10.220 shoes. Yeah. Um, you know, we stay home for a few days and watch our kids and we're like,

01:07:15.000 Oh, this isn't that hard. You know, what are you complaining about? I've been doing it for

01:07:19.160 three and a half months now and it's, it's tough. Yeah. You know, it's different. It's not

01:07:23.480 like business and employees, but, um, it's, it's very exhausting, you know, just trying to run

01:07:29.380 around with the little one. I got a two year old, you know? Um, so I get the other kids

01:07:33.060 off to school, uh, 11, eight and two. So get the kids up, get them ready, get them off to

01:07:39.340 school. Um, and then I just, and with the little one, you know, all day I go to the gym, you

01:07:43.800 know, it's my little. With your two year old. Yeah. Cause there's a babysitter there. Oh,

01:07:46.880 got it. Yeah. So I'm like, Oh yes. You go to the gym. Yeah. I didn't know. I couldn't

01:07:50.960 tell. Yeah. I was in a bet with these guys and it was rigged, but that's another podcast.

01:07:54.900 It was rigged. Wayne won. Wayne won the 300 bucks.

01:07:59.380 We started another bet too. Yeah. 1200 bucks or a grand. A thousand. I think we bumped it

01:08:05.080 up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is he in? He's in. He doesn't, you don't get a choice. If you're

01:08:10.960 here, you're in. Yep. I agree. Tom's in too. Just put your 200 bucks in. Yeah. Tom. Yeah.

01:08:16.820 Yeah. Wayne's pretty confident over here. You know, and that's honestly, so yeah, but I

01:08:23.060 know what you meant. You said we, but you met me. Well, I think that's,

01:08:29.380 you know, I think that's the good thing about like the sisterhood, you know, is the iron

01:08:33.420 council. Cause Wayne, I mean, Wayne, so I've known Wayne for about a year, you know, never

01:08:37.780 knew him before that at all. And, uh, never met him. Yeah. And, uh, uh, it's a joke.

01:08:45.020 And so, um, but you know, talking to him, I know he came to your first event. What was

01:08:50.300 that called? Uh, uprising uprising. Him and Sam actually in Pine Valley. That's how I met

01:08:55.080 Sam and Chris. That's right. So three of the guys at this hunting lodge right now

01:09:00.540 were at your first event five years ago. Yeah. About. And he's told me, you know, he, he,

01:09:06.500 like I said, he encouraged his wife to sign up for the sisterhood because he knows what

01:09:10.200 the iron council in this group of men, you know, I've had a lot of conversations with

01:09:15.280 Wayne where he says, I would, you know, if you would have told me a year ago, if you would

01:09:18.600 have said what you just said to me about my finances or, you know, this or that, I would

01:09:23.240 have got a, uh, a defensive and he says, but now I'm all ears, you know, like instead of

01:09:29.320 being like, Oh, I don't have this or don't have that. It's like, I'm going to get this.

01:09:32.040 I'm going to get that. And you know, like I said, he's got a six pack now punk.

01:09:37.020 Barely. Yeah, barely. But he's changed his whole life, you know? And, and so kudos to

01:09:43.220 you, Ryan, you know, I know you, you kind of deflect and like, you know, I just built

01:09:46.900 the system. I built the framework and these men are the ones that are doing it. And that's

01:09:51.600 true. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's what it is. Cause this is the easy, just talking

01:09:55.380 is the easy part. Yeah. But you discredit yourself, but, um, you know, you did build

01:10:00.000 this framework for us men to get into a, a room or an event or, you know, social media

01:10:07.180 to where we can talk and better ourselves and have conversations, you know, about money,

01:10:13.160 marriage, you know, whatever, health, fitness, you know, and it's changing lives and you know

01:10:19.320 that. And, and, uh, so that's what the sisterhood is, you know, we're, we're just on the ground

01:10:24.020 floor, uh, just barely out of the gates and we're excited about it. You know, Gina's just,

01:10:30.860 she's doing an event on December 10th and we're paying for it. You know, me and Gina are going

01:10:35.200 to cover it. It's one and only live event that we're going to probably pay for. And she, it was

01:10:41.220 literally just to tell these women who signed up right out of the gate and had faith in her

01:10:48.420 to say thank you. Yeah. And so they're going to come out to Utah. We rented a ranch and

01:10:52.520 that is cool. I remember the first person that signed up, Mark Gabloski is his name,

01:10:56.740 signed up for the iron council. Yeah. And I, I had said, I have 12 spots and it was like a hundred

01:11:02.620 bucks and Mark signed up and I, I still have the email that I had sent to him. Yeah. He had

01:11:10.580 screenshot it and sent it back to me years later. That's awesome. And I, I, I've got it saved

01:11:14.740 somewhere, but it basically says, Hey man, thanks for believing in me. Like it was just

01:11:18.500 me. Now there's two of us. Yeah. Like really cool. It's a really, you know, like I said,

01:11:23.640 I've started 12 or 13 of my own businesses and when people put their money where their

01:11:31.220 mouth is and they sign up and they believe in my product, you know, whether it's cabinets

01:11:34.520 or, or the sisterhood for Gina. Charcuterie boards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some people don't

01:11:39.420 appreciate those much, but you know, they're beautiful. But, uh, yeah, you, you, you remember

01:11:45.720 that, you know, and you love that. And that's the, that's the, it's, it's really, it's really

01:11:52.900 affects Gina, you know, when she sees a new member and she reads the name and you know,

01:11:57.180 she's doing some things. She doesn't want me to say it, but she's making some little charms

01:12:00.440 that are for the first women that sign up. It's a good idea. Cause she doesn't want to announce

01:12:05.160 it because she doesn't want people to sign up for the charm. For that. Yeah. You know,

01:12:08.400 she bought the necklaces and she already has them and she's going to give them out to these girls

01:12:11.620 that sincerely want to get it. That's a genius. When you told me that, I was like, that's a

01:12:16.060 genius idea. And it's, yeah, sincere. I'm going to start doing that for the guys,

01:12:19.020 little charm bracelets for the guys. Yeah. And the, you know, and it's going to be a bunch of

01:12:23.240 charms and this one's the founders. Yeah. And so you walk around with that necklace, you know,

01:12:27.300 and women will be like, wow, you were one of the first, whatever, 20. I don't know what

01:12:32.020 Gina's doing, but you know, we sincerely, you know, we have the money.

01:12:38.400 We, you know, it's like now we're both sitting here saying,

01:12:41.240 you know, how can we just better our lives? It's not, it's not, you know, it's still not

01:12:49.240 just unselfish. We want to meet more people. We want to have events. We want to expand our,

01:12:54.680 our lives. Um, but also help other people and this is our way, you know? And so, uh,

01:13:01.320 we're excited about it. I think it's going to be big and I, you know, like Wayne's wife signing up,

01:13:05.280 you know, just the more people who join and the bigger it gets, the better it's going to be.

01:13:09.960 Yeah, for sure. So, you know, we appreciate you partnering with us and, and mentoring us.

01:13:15.840 You're helping us a ton and, uh, you know, means a lot. So, yeah, I'm excited for what's to come.

01:13:22.160 Yeah. We got a lot, we got a lot of work to do. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's the other thing.

01:13:26.120 And I talk about it with, you know, the men is like how much more are we still have to do?

01:13:29.920 Yeah. But now to be able to have men and women in it and not necessarily together,

01:13:34.500 but kind of working on similar things. Well, and you talked about maybe events where the wives and

01:13:40.500 husbands come together. I was thinking wives and husbands, but you know what else would be a cool

01:13:44.140 event? I think we were talking about, I was talking about it with somebody where it's like you have

01:13:48.900 the single ladies and the single men because we're all working on similar things and we get together

01:13:55.920 not to like, not, it's not, no, I mean, that's going to happen. I'm sure. Yeah. But it's to talk

01:14:01.820 about making themselves better men, making themselves better women, being in the same

01:14:06.920 environment. Yeah. And ultimately, you know, if people do form relationships from that, that's

01:14:12.240 cool too. That's what we want. We want women who are improving themselves to be with men who are

01:14:16.320 improving themselves. Like that's going to be cool. Yeah. You know, when I first got called to go,

01:14:20.420 you called me, I was actually going to Alaska and you called me up a year and a year,

01:14:25.120 a year ago, a year and a half ago and said, Hey, do you want to come to Hawaii? I had a guy

01:14:29.740 bail out on me, Sam. And I, I had booked my flights for me and my family. And I hung up and I talked to

01:14:37.240 my wife and I said, babe, can we put Alaska off a couple of weeks? It's going to cost us a couple

01:14:43.240 thousand dollars to change our flights. But Ryan Mickler surrounds himself with great men and I want

01:14:50.340 to be there. And she's like, you should go. That's cool. And I flew out there. Yeah. Yeah.

01:14:55.040 I have lots of friends calling me all the time. Nothing against my buddies, but a lot of them

01:14:58.720 call and want me to hang out or whatever. But I know your caliber of men. And so Jean actually

01:15:05.080 something else that you go ahead. Sorry. I'll tell you. Jean actually had a girl in the sisterhood

01:15:08.320 say, I'm excited about this. You know, I looked into the iron council and that seems like a lot

01:15:13.580 of great men in there, you know, from what I've heard and listened to Ryan's podcast. And that's

01:15:18.300 where we kind of got the idea where it's like, man, if we could put them together for sure,

01:15:22.240 women that are trying to better their lives and men trying to better their lives, there

01:15:25.940 might be a spark there.

01:15:27.360 There was something else that you did years ago. I don't know if you remember this or not,

01:15:30.820 but you had reached out to me and you wanted to get together or like connect or something.

01:15:38.560 And I was busy. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Whatever. Do you remember this?

01:15:41.960 No, sounds about right though.

01:15:43.000 I was like, yeah, okay. So yeah, okay. I'll do it. Or yeah, let's get to. And I just never did

01:15:47.800 it. I was so busy. Yeah. And then you said something and you're like, Hey man, like I

01:15:53.880 can't even remember what you said, but you called me out and you're like, Hey, if we're

01:15:57.780 going to do it, like do it. Like it seems like you keep blowing me off. And if that is like

01:16:01.520 cool, whatever, but like, let's do it or not. Yeah. It was something like that.

01:16:05.740 I think I want, it might've been when I was, I wanted to partner with you on iron account

01:16:08.960 on order, man. Oh, that's right. And I says, Hey, you know, can we meet up? I'd like,

01:16:13.660 I'm, I love what you're doing. I love your message. Yeah. And you kept blowing me off.

01:16:18.220 Well, the thing, the reason I brought it up is because the level of assertiveness that

01:16:23.380 it required to do that, because, and truth be told, that's really before we knew each

01:16:28.700 other too well. Absolutely. Like we knew of each other cause we kind of ran in similar

01:16:31.680 circles for 10, 15, 20 years. Yeah. Um, but most guys aren't that assertive. And, and I,

01:16:39.040 at the time I was, I would, I was getting bombarded with requests and people that wanted to be

01:16:43.360 quote unquote part of it and all this. So I'm like, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever. Yeah.

01:16:47.660 But just the way that you set yourself apart was that level of assertiveness that I think

01:16:52.540 a lot of guys miss. And they don't know that. Well, I didn't, I didn't realize that. That's

01:16:57.300 what it was. It's like, Oh, okay. He's actually serious. Right. Cause he's saying this and other

01:17:02.840 guys wouldn't be that assertive. So that was, that was actually a cool lesson for me. Oh, that's

01:17:07.100 cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think in life, you know, like you said, it goes all the way

01:17:11.520 back to the beginning of our conversation. Open your mouth. Yeah. You know, if you want

01:17:15.820 to get to know somebody, if you want to, you know, anything in life, you know, just, just

01:17:20.940 ask or, or go for it. You know, I don't know why we get into this, I don't know, uncomfortable

01:17:27.780 or just intimidated. And it's just complacent. Yeah. It's easy. Like when, so today I shot this

01:17:35.540 deer and it wasn't a great shot. Right. And I shot it in front of the shoulder and I knew

01:17:42.040 it when I shot her and got down long story short, you know, we're tracking her. We tracked

01:17:49.280 her forever. We were out there for three hours. You guys tracked her forever. Three hours

01:17:53.520 and finally just couldn't find her. Yeah. But what was interesting as I was noticing is we

01:17:59.640 were following the blood trail and she was just taking the same trail that the thousand

01:18:05.500 of other deer went before just path of least resistance. That was the trail that was worn

01:18:11.560 down. Yeah. No brush, no branches, nothing. Just a path of least resistance. Yeah. And it's

01:18:17.380 the same thing when you look at a trail in the field is it's not, not everything's trampled

01:18:21.640 down. It's this very clear, distinct trail trampled down. Yeah. And it's the path of least

01:18:27.600 resistance. Yeah. And if, if more people would take the path that wasn't traveled. Right.

01:18:34.960 Who knows what you're going to see. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And I think that's

01:18:38.920 where a lot of people miss out in life, you know, is there's no rules. There's no rules

01:18:43.360 to this game. You know, it is a game. I believe it's a game and, but you can write it, you can

01:18:48.380 write your story. And you know, like I said, us traveling, people are baffled by it, you know,

01:18:53.680 like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm doing what I want to do. You know, I worked

01:18:58.800 hard and, and this is what was our goal and we're going for it. So yeah, I encourage people

01:19:03.460 to definitely, I, you know, my little boys, I tell them take the path of least of most

01:19:09.180 resistance, you know, and, and you find out who you are and you may see, you know, find

01:19:15.300 something on the other side of that hill that it's a lot better than what you were walking

01:19:18.660 to wherever other deer is going. Yeah. Well, cool, man. Well, I think we need to get ready

01:19:23.280 for a hunt. Um, you want me, you want to tell the guys where to connect with you and that

01:19:26.760 way we could bump up your numbers from like 600 Instagram followers to maybe 620 or 30

01:19:33.780 somewhere in there. Get me to the a hundred thousand clubs. So I get the best stand. That's

01:19:38.100 only for me. I'm going to keep you under that. Uh, yeah. Mine or Gina's, I don't worry

01:19:44.660 about mine. Yeah, both. Mine's one life. What is mine? One life. So live. Yeah. One

01:19:49.860 life dot. So live. Does the dot matter? I don't know. They'll find it. Whatever. Mine's

01:19:54.500 on Instagram. Yeah. Good luck. It's in there. And then, uh, Gina's is revitalized womanhood

01:19:58.920 dot com. Yeah. You know, and, and I don't know what revitalize womanhood on Instagram. I

01:20:04.760 think so. I'm not good at those things, but yeah, it's just type in revitalized womanhood

01:20:07.960 and you'll find it. Yeah. You'll find it. It's good for the ladies in your life. Yeah.

01:20:11.440 Brother. Yeah. I think it's going to be good. You too, man. I love you.

01:20:13.600 You're going to shoot something tonight. I'm going to shoot something ever here or

01:20:17.320 shot at a pheasant today. You shot 400 axis deer in Hawaii a couple of months ago. So

01:20:21.980 I figured you'd just come out here and do the same. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm trying

01:20:26.160 to get a buck. I want to get a buck, but we'll see. We haven't been seeing the bucks

01:20:29.720 moving. They said they're not moving much. Have you seen them anyway? I just saw a couple

01:20:34.060 of small ones this morning. One small one. Actually we saw a pretty good one this morning

01:20:37.420 when we were trying to find my doe, but you know, that's the thing is, is Tom keeps

01:20:43.240 coming up to the stand and like, you know, what'd you see? And I'm like, I saw some does

01:20:46.340 and he's like, Oh, I'm sorry. You know, he said, sorry. He doesn't say sorry to me.

01:20:50.160 Yeah. He's just like, Oh, I thought it'd be a good stand. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, son. And

01:20:54.060 it's like, if you think that being out here in a tree watching nature and watching pheasants

01:20:59.000 run around and squirrels, I almost had a squirrel jump on my lap today. Life's good. You know,

01:21:04.040 like life's good. And you're sitting in a stand. You're missing the point. If you think

01:21:07.840 it's about the kill is Bob Ross. Yeah. I love Bob Ross. It's a good stand. It's a good stand.

01:21:12.980 It's beautiful. So yeah, let's go get it done. All right, man.

01:21:18.360 All right, gentlemen, there's my conversation with the one and only Rick trimmer. I hope you

01:21:21.900 enjoyed it. Make sure you follow him on Instagram, including our newest project that we're working

01:21:26.820 on together called revitalized womanhood, which is run by his incredible wife, Gina trimmer. So make

01:21:33.500 sure you check that out for the ladies in your life. Cause it's very similar to what we're doing

01:21:37.580 here, except for it's exclusively for the ladies. So make sure you check that out. Also, if you

01:21:43.040 would make sure you take a screenshot right now that you're listening to this and tag Rick tag

01:21:47.960 myself posted as a story posted on your feed on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, wherever you're

01:21:53.720 doing the social media thing and let other men know what you're listening to, because this is how

01:21:58.120 we get the message out. This is how we get the word out. We don't do a lot of advertising and all that

01:22:01.540 kind of stuff. Grassroots movement. So please make sure a screenshot, share, text, whatever you need

01:22:06.180 to do and get the word out. Also check out the battle ready program and my latest book, the

01:22:10.840 masculinity manifesto. All right. You got a lot to do. Those are your marching orders. We'll be back

01:22:15.860 tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant

01:22:20.920 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:22:25.960 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at quarterofman.com.

Order of Man - November 01, 2022

RICK TRIMMER ｜ One Foot in Front of the Other

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