Order of Man - Risk, Resilience, and Raising Kids

00:00:00.000 It seems to me that the more I have conversations on this podcast, the more questions that I have

00:00:05.080 rather than the answers that I've been seeking. But it's been said that the quality of your life

00:00:09.560 will be determined by the quality of the questions that you ask. So when I have an opportunity to

00:00:15.060 sit down with my friend, Andy Stump, to ask some of life's challenging questions, it's always a

00:00:20.260 great discussion. Today, we talk about so many different topics like taking risks, which we've

00:00:25.340 both done with moving our families. And I know a lot of men have had questions about that.

00:00:29.040 Also, developing resilience in our lives. And of course, the thing that keeps me up at night

00:00:34.280 most, which is the never-ending challenges that come with raising kids.

00:00:38.440 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:43.220 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not

00:00:49.100 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:55.920 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:01.040 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:03.320 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:07.580 of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you back if you're new.

00:01:12.180 And it is likely that a lot of you are new because we continue to grow in the podcast charts and continue

00:01:19.040 to grow the podcast each and every month. So I'm glad you're tuning in because we need more men

00:01:22.900 in the battle to reclaim and restore masculinity. And that's what this is all about. We're giving

00:01:28.100 you the tools and the guidance and the resource and direction. And of course, specifically with

00:01:32.240 this podcast, the conversations that each of us need to step up more fully as husbands and

00:01:37.160 fathers and business owners and community leaders. So this has become a staple, if you will, in

00:01:42.900 the movement to restore masculinity. So I'm glad you're here. I've got a great one lined up for you

00:01:49.100 today. A little bit different than I normally do because the conversation that you're going to hear

00:01:53.640 today is just that it's a conversation rather than me interviewing somebody or extracting a specific

00:01:58.700 lesson on some certain topic, which there's value in that. It's a conversation between two friends

00:02:04.640 and we'll get into that here in just a minute. I do want to make a very quick announcement before

00:02:09.760 we get started. A lot of you guys have heard, and I'm going to talk about this later in the show

00:02:13.280 during a break, but we've got an event coming up, which is held August 10th and 11th, 2019 on my new

00:02:20.880 property in Maine. And we talk a little bit about that in the conversation with Andy. Again, it's

00:02:25.960 August 10th and 11th. I want to teach you the framework and give you access to the network to

00:02:30.980 help you improve as a man. And it's obvious, obvious to me that this is what men want. This is what

00:02:37.440 men need to improve their lives. So you can check it out at order of man.com slash main event. Again,

00:02:42.720 order of man.com slash main event. I'll tell you more about it during a break in the show. But for

00:02:47.340 now, I want to jump right into the conversation with my guest and friend, Andy Stumpf. I know a lot of

00:02:52.480 you guys know who Andy is. I heard he was going to be making a trip to Maine about a week after I got

00:02:58.360 here. So I reached out, we scheduled a conversation on this podcast. It was pretty good day. We did more

00:03:03.780 than just podcasting. We did archery, taught me some things there. We did jujitsu, which I think if you

00:03:09.940 follow me on Instagram, you probably saw that he ripped out some of my beard. And when I say some,

00:03:16.300 I mean like 10% of the volume of my beard. Anyways, it was a good day. What else did we do?

00:03:21.920 A podcast session, of course, like the one you're going to listen to here in a minute.

00:03:25.180 And then we also finished it off with a, with a lobster bake with our friends, Pete Roberts and

00:03:29.540 Brian Littlefield over at origin. So it was a good day. If you don't know who Andy Stumpf is,

00:03:34.560 he's a retired Navy SEAL. He's a, he's a bow hunter has been over the past, I would say three

00:03:39.720 to four years now. He's also a base jumping wingsuit flying madman. And I don't know if he

00:03:47.120 would agree with the madman part, but he's one of the most level-headed men that I know. And that's

00:03:52.540 why I enjoy having these conversations. I think the reason he is so level-headed is because

00:03:56.240 a lot of that has been developed to even out his, his quest for adventure. And with the adventurous

00:04:03.340 spirit that he has, I think having a level head probably has served him well and kept him alive.

00:04:08.020 Guys, you're going to enjoy this one. Again, it's not so much of an interview, but really just two

00:04:12.020 men talking about the challenges and the struggles that are part of being a man and just part of life

00:04:16.760 in general. So I hope you enjoy. I've been on your podcast order, man. You've been on my podcast

00:04:22.740 cleared hot. We're both in Maine right now. So instead of doing two podcasts, we're going to knock it

00:04:26.580 out combined order of man and cleared hot. We'll get to the shark tank in a minute. Yeah.

00:04:33.340 Why'd you move? Tell me about the last two weeks of your life, man. It's been crazy.

00:04:37.460 I know. That's what I'm saying. I mean, you, you kind of know because you made a move too,

00:04:41.220 not that long ago. And I'm about two years ahead of you. That's about it. July 1st is actually our

00:04:45.820 two year anniversary of crossing the border into Montana. Yep. Yeah. Yep. So I think there's a lot

00:04:50.600 of people who don't understand why, why I would do that. Cause there's a lot of risk and uncertainty

00:04:54.920 with it. I mean risk, there's no risk really. There's just uncertainty with it. It would depend on how

00:04:59.880 you define risk. There's certainly a lot of uncertainty. I guess the biggest risk would

00:05:03.520 be that you would, it would not be what you had expected and it would hinder your life in some

00:05:07.040 way. I mean, that's manageable. Exactly. Yeah. Um, because you know, we get out here, let's say

00:05:12.680 worst case scenario, we hate it. We don't enjoy it. And so what do we do? We move back. You know,

00:05:15.920 we kept our home there in Utah and that's just fine, you know, but with the work and everything

00:05:20.440 that we're doing, I mean, we've got, we've got the opportunities to do this anywhere.

00:05:24.620 How'd you land on Maine then? I mean, it's, it's not exactly down the street from Utah.

00:05:29.080 Yeah. I mean, it's as far as I could go and still be in the States, but, um, I was introduced

00:05:32.900 to Maine through Pete last year. I came out to their immersion camp and fell in love with

00:05:37.440 it, which I mean, of course it was in August. Yeah. End of August. So it's getting into the

00:05:42.660 fall. It's beautiful. The weather's mild. So I'm sending my wife pictures and video.

00:05:47.060 I'm like, Hey, check this out. She's like, yeah, of course it's beautiful right now.

00:05:50.340 Yeah. Go back in the winter.

00:05:51.500 So I mean, it's going to have a little bit of a sting to it. People will say the same

00:05:55.400 thing to me about Montana. How do you survive the winters? And I just say, I have a really

00:05:59.620 nice jacket, right? It's jacket. You've got heat, like it's survivable. I'm not doing like

00:06:05.980 a, the star Wars thing where I'm running around being chased by those dinosaur creatures.

00:06:09.900 Exactly. There's, there's almost a million and a half people in Maine and they do it every

00:06:14.260 year and they've been here for what? 300 years. Yeah. It's going to be okay.

00:06:18.980 Yeah. We'll figure it out. Yeah. It's going to be cold. No doubt.

00:06:22.260 I enjoy it though. I think the winter months, and again, I've only been through two full time

00:06:25.560 now in Montana and there are people who have lived there a very long time. It's not their

00:06:30.660 favorite time of year because it's, you know, it changes your pace of life, but I kind of

00:06:34.280 dig it. Yeah. I mean, I like walking out and just seeing pristine white and snow falling,

00:06:38.460 but I also like snow activities. Yeah. So that helps if you snowboard or ski. I do snowboard.

00:06:43.220 Yeah. Um, my, I had a snowboarding experience well over 20 years ago where it's basically

00:06:50.140 it was five seconds long and involved me getting turned around backwards, catching my rear edge

00:06:53.900 and knocking myself out. Like you went out. Yes. And then when I woke up, it was of course

00:06:59.240 in the middle of a military training trip, I had no knowledge, uh, technique or instruction

00:07:03.620 on the snowboard. I took it off my feet, kicked it off down the hill and said I would never,

00:07:07.940 ever, ever, ever, ever try snowboarding again. And then my brother-in-law, we purchased a house

00:07:14.120 in Montana in 2016, which was really the impetus to get us up there. And we spent the entire month

00:07:19.460 of December in that house. And my brother-in-law just rips on a board and he threw on a Jeremy

00:07:25.560 Jones movie and he's got the deeper, further, higher series. And I just was like, what is this?

00:07:32.320 And it was all split boarding, back country, foot powder, uh, foot power type stuff. And the next

00:07:37.960 day I think we went to the resort and I rented a snowboard and then that probably appeals to your,

00:07:42.100 uh, I don't know, your, just your adventurous nature. I imagine it was that. And it looked like

00:07:47.760 the sensation even from a visual perspective. I mean, to me, and I'm not a good skier by any

00:07:54.580 stretch, but it's like a teeth chattering, you know, like very hard on the knees. And I'm watching

00:08:00.800 these guys board and it just looked like they were floating and just switching edges. I'm like,

00:08:05.400 that looks amazing. Yeah. Which, because that was not the experience I had the first time on a

00:08:10.220 snowboard. It is pretty cool when it's all powder like that. I mean, there's nothing that feels like

00:08:14.820 a powder day. It's amazing. I've been snowboarding maybe a dozen or so times, not very many. And it's

00:08:21.320 absolutely unbelievable. I had a three day stretch. Dudley was actually here for this. He came up and

00:08:25.820 visited in Montana last holiday season. Oh, I think I saw you guys got together.

00:08:30.440 And so he got his first time on a board because he, you know, he got introduced to a guy named

00:08:34.660 Mark Carter, who's a professional snowboarder. One of the coolest dudes ever. He knows Brian

00:08:38.580 Gucci, who has a snowboarding, uh, you know, a brand essentially. So Dudley's got this brand new

00:08:45.180 board and right. Of course the time that Dudley shows up, it was like the perfect, the perfect

00:08:50.240 storm. And my brother-in-law was there for this too. It just nuked 12 to 16 inches of snow

00:08:54.180 every night. And we were staying at the resort and I didn't feel the bottom of the resort for

00:08:59.020 three days, just powder run after powder. It was unbelievable. That's nice. And you're,

00:09:03.480 you're going to be hooked after that. Oh, no doubt. For sure. And then, and I was being wildly

00:09:07.680 aggressive and just doing things I should have never done because there was little to no

00:09:11.060 consequences. And then I almost folded my spine in half on a scorpion. I don't recommend it.

00:09:16.100 The trap is like, I don't know if it's, if, if, if it's nature's way of like pulling you in and

00:09:21.000 sucking you in, but it gives you the perfect conditions. Like I remember even in hunting and I'm

00:09:25.340 getting, I'm sure we can get into this. It's like, I went hunting with a buddy of mine, Colin

00:09:29.000 Cottrell, and he invited me down. And the first day we saw, we saw a deer. I shot it at 75 yards

00:09:34.720 with my rifle. Third day, uh, another whitetail came in, shot him at 20 yards with my bow. And I'm

00:09:40.700 like, what the hell is everybody complaining about? This is easy. And then the rest of your hunting

00:09:44.680 life will be spent. This sucks. Yeah. Having terrible experiences. Yeah. It's pretty much. Yeah.

00:09:50.140 That's how it goes. I actually had a similar experience with your, uh, with your snowboarding

00:09:53.640 experience when I went skiing. So I moved to a small mountain town, uh, in Utah when

00:09:59.620 I was in ninth grade and my father or my, uh, my stepdad had us come up cause he'd been

00:10:05.320 skiing for decades. And I did what can only be described as like an inverted helicopter

00:10:12.440 spin on those. Yes. Skis went flying both ways. I pegged into the ground. I'm like, I'm

00:10:17.460 done. And I actually went down and rented a snowboard and that's what I did ever since.

00:10:20.560 I, uh, and again, people go for it if you can ski. And I know it's some people's jam,

00:10:25.800 but I watched some of the wrecks and the angles that the knees are at and the directions that

00:10:30.380 the skis are going. And I would just much rather have both of my feet planted on a board and

00:10:35.700 I, you know, risk my scorpions so hard.

00:10:39.880 Isn't that kill? I mean, even my hands were coming at like, and I, everything was bad.

00:10:43.520 Like I had speed caught my edge as I'm flying through the air. I'm like, don't put your hands

00:10:47.020 out as they're coming out in front and then just board hits you in the back of your head.

00:10:50.680 Like who kicked me? That's the thing. How is that even physically possible that the board

00:10:56.760 actually hits you in the back of the head? Yeah. You know, your body smashed the back

00:11:00.400 of my head with my board and then just laid there trying to determine whether or not my

00:11:04.220 lumbar spine was still oriented properly slash not powdered. Right. And my back hurt for

00:11:10.280 like four months. Oh, I bet. I'm still recovering from that. I feel better now, but, uh, I had

00:11:16.220 just started, or it was maybe a couple months into jujitsu at the time and I'm being on the

00:11:19.440 mat. I'm like, Oh, this doesn't feel good at all. It was just, how long you've been doing

00:11:23.600 jujitsu now? Uh, almost one year, the 26th of June. Uh, uh, one of the coaches took a picture

00:11:30.580 of my first day in the first class. So that's the only reason. What'd you say? 20, June, 26,

00:11:34.140 26. So this month, yeah, it's been cool, man. Yeah. How often do you train? As often as I possibly can.

00:11:39.920 So on days that I'm home, I'll hit, uh, at least a class a day and the structure is really nice.

00:11:44.780 They do. So I trained at the straight blast gym in Kalispell or whitefish. It's, uh, at this point,

00:11:50.140 I think a global organization, they're all over the place, but they do, it schedules perfect for me at

00:11:54.840 noon. There's a class. And then right after that is an open mat. So you can apply, try to apply the

00:11:59.900 stuff in the class right at the open mat. And it's, so it gives me, you know, two hours a day of

00:12:03.820 some good mental release, a good physical release, and I can just bounce back and forth. And if I'm

00:12:08.100 home Monday through Friday, I'm there Monday through Friday. Yeah. Yeah. I started, I started

00:12:11.980 jujitsu August of last year. And people ask me how long I've been, been training for.

00:12:18.600 So you're like 10 months into it then too. Yeah, but not really. That's when I started. And then

00:12:21.500 I took a big long break and gap in there. Yeah. Don't do that. No, I shouldn't have done that.

00:12:26.040 Yeah. But I came back, um, here in Maine, which is, I mean, it's nice being here cause I can train

00:12:31.040 with these guys. Uh, man, there's just something about it. You know, there's the physical release of it.

00:12:36.300 There's the brotherhood and the camaraderie. There's the physicality of it that I think

00:12:39.600 all men need. So man, it feels good to be back training again. Yeah. I'm looking forward to

00:12:43.740 after this, I'm sure we're both going to get utterly destroyed, which is just kind of what

00:12:48.080 I expect at all times. Yeah. Well last week, I mean, Pete, you know, he's such a big guy anyways

00:12:52.400 and he's, he's high level. Yeah. So he's a big guy and he's high level. It's my least favorite type

00:12:56.880 of person. He just toys with you and I need small and very low level. Right. Yeah. You'll, you'll be great

00:13:02.140 against me then. Yeah. We'll have fun, man. No, it'll be good. I'm looking forward to it.

00:13:07.020 But yeah, I mean, to come back to what you were saying earlier about moving is, you know, my wife

00:13:10.760 and I just, we wanted an adventure. We've got the opportunity to, to be able to do that. And I never

00:13:14.740 want to look back and think, you know, man, remember that time we wanted to do that thing

00:13:19.280 and we didn't do it for whatever, like people say that, Oh, that's, that's a, that's a gutsy move.

00:13:24.580 That's a ballsy move. That's risky. Not at all, man. Yeah. It's not in the grander

00:13:28.840 perspective of things you can get yourself involved in. It's, I'm trying to think how

00:13:33.080 many houses. So I started my military career in San Diego. We moved to Virginia beach. We

00:13:37.720 bought our first house in Virginia beach, moved back to San Diego, rented some houses along

00:13:41.840 the way, bought some houses along the way to Montana. I mean, I guess I never really felt

00:13:46.900 risk in any of those. It was just kind of the next, the next chapter. I mean, if you can commit

00:13:51.780 yourself to, you can encounter problems and things will not be exactly what you think. But

00:13:55.660 if you can commit yourself to navigating through that, I don't think it really matters

00:13:58.720 where the geographical pin in the ground is. I think that's exactly right. And I think

00:14:02.080 there's too many people who believe that, you know, if the, there's a slightest little variance

00:14:06.080 in their, in their schedule or their life, that it's going to completely derail whatever

00:14:09.780 plans they have. And my thought is, man, you can adapt to that stuff. Like we're resilient

00:14:14.440 creatures. You can adapt and grow to that stuff. And resiliency is interesting to, you know,

00:14:18.760 the textbook definition largely being, you know, if you get bent out of a normal position,

00:14:23.000 you can come back to your original position, which I think is incorrect. I think it should

00:14:26.300 be, you should attempt to come back to at least a percentage point stronger. Otherwise you're

00:14:29.920 just treading water. And, uh, I get asked all the time. I do a good amount of public speaking

00:14:34.460 and sometimes they'll want me to talk on either mental toughness or resiliency, which I believe

00:14:38.460 are tied. And the, one of the main questions is, you know, can it be taught or do you just

00:14:43.340 have the potential that you have? And the answer, my answer at least is yes, to both. You can't,

00:14:49.380 you of course, as a human being will have X amount of potential and whatever it might be,

00:14:54.140 but I think you can build on that. And if you want to be a resilient person, truly my best advice for

00:14:59.420 people is look for ways to bend yourself instead of waiting for life to bend you. And you'll be much

00:15:03.180 more prepared for it. Well, and I think you're exactly right. I think if you wait for it to

00:15:06.740 happen, something catastrophic or maybe not catastrophic is going to happen. It doesn't

00:15:10.320 have to be, if you're not used to encountering resilient or challenges or working your way through,

00:15:14.280 it doesn't have to be catastrophic at all. Right. And it'll derail you. It'll, it'll just,

00:15:18.320 it'll just mess with you. I mean, it's, um, you know, I've had things in my life come up,

00:15:21.880 whether it's, uh, you know, things in my relationship or with a business. I mean,

00:15:27.020 there's a lot of times where I struggled financially, um, trying to get a business off

00:15:30.440 the ground. Uh, fortunately, you know, I'd played sports. I was in the military, not to,

00:15:34.300 not necessarily to the level you were, but you know, some of those things I was able to put myself

00:15:38.140 in those situations. So when you do face difficult times when we're all bound to, it's like, okay,

00:15:43.500 well, this isn't the end of the world. This sucks, no doubt, but it's not the end of the world.

00:15:47.000 I can get over this. I'll get through this. And to your point, you know, you come back stronger,

00:15:50.620 uh, than you were before. That's the point of jujitsu. That's the point of

00:15:54.460 whatever, uh, uh, the adventure that we're on. I mean, that's the point of all of this stuff is

00:15:59.740 to improve and get better. How are your kids doing to move? They're good. You know, my,

00:16:04.840 my oldest was a little freaked out. He's kind of a worrier anyways. Yeah. Um, I have a kid that's

00:16:09.740 like that as well. My middle son is middle. He just absorbs. And first off, he probably right now

00:16:16.140 is figuring out a formula to launch a rocket into geosynchronous orbit. Is that right? Oh,

00:16:20.540 he's that's awesome. Insanely smart, which I had no idea where he came from. Definitely not for me.

00:16:27.260 Um, but he internalizes things. And then I have some of the deepest conversations with him. It's

00:16:33.080 unbelievable, but yeah, he's my little worrier. Yeah. Yeah. My oldest is really empathetic towards

00:16:37.960 other people and even very highly tuned into animals, which is kind of an interesting thing to

00:16:42.060 watch him interact with animals. Um, but because he's so empathetic and he's so in tune with that

00:16:48.220 sort of thing, he's always worried about, Oh, how does that person feel? Or how does that person

00:16:53.860 perceive me? Because that's how he sees the world. How old is he? He's 11. Yeah. I had the capacity to

00:16:59.940 probably eat Play-Doh at 11. I was not thinking of those things at all. That's, I mean, I mean,

00:17:06.920 it's good, it's good, but like anything, the things that we're strong at can also be our greatest

00:17:13.020 weaknesses too. Right. So he allows a lot of these little outside factors and these variances to really

00:17:19.200 mess with his head. And then he starts to get inside of his head and I can see the wheels turning

00:17:23.360 and like, dude, breathe, relax. Let's work through this and figure this out. So he's had a little bit

00:17:29.740 of a challenge. Um, he's excited for the adventure. All I had to do is show him what animals were out here.

00:17:33.860 He's like, Oh, okay. I'm good. There's moose out here. I'm good. We were worried about our kids

00:17:37.480 on the move from San Diego to Montana as well. My son was in seventh grade when we made the decision

00:17:42.800 to move and kind of one of a pin in the ground for me was I, I experienced going from a private

00:17:48.820 school to a public school between eighth and ninth grade. Okay. And being a teenage boy is not that being

00:17:55.980 a teenage girl isn't easier, but for a young man at that age, when you're just full of testosterone and

00:18:01.440 you don't know anything, but you think, you know, it's challenging enough as it is is what I'm trying

00:18:04.980 to say to have no social network or circle in a new high school environment. High school is tough

00:18:10.640 enough as it is. So I didn't want my son to have that experience. So we'd made the decision that

00:18:16.100 we needed to move in the summer of his seventh grade year. So he could have eighth grade and then

00:18:20.840 into high school because I was worried about the kids, but honestly, they're, they're thriving.

00:18:25.000 And I think the environment, there's four seasons, obviously in Montana versus, I mean,

00:18:29.000 there's four seasons in San Diego as well, but that it gets a little hotter and it rains a little

00:18:32.760 bit more. It's drastically different than the four seasons of Montana. And they're, I think they're

00:18:37.880 thriving. I mean, they're doing snowboarding with me. My daughter's riding horses. Uh, and it's,

00:18:43.060 they're, they're loving it. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's right. I think a lot of parents don't

00:18:47.380 give their, their kids as much credit. I don't even know. The kids are more resilient than I think a lot

00:18:53.100 of times adults. Well, yeah. And what I think we do as adults is we project that stuff under our kids

00:18:58.180 and, and so we're like, we're not willing, you know, I know parents, for example, I've got parents

00:19:02.740 in, in our family who let their kids dictate everything they're doing. Schedules are all

00:19:09.060 about the kids and how are the, how the kids are feeling is, is determines what they're going to

00:19:13.040 be doing. And I think, you know, that's, that's, that's ridiculous. I think you have to find a

00:19:17.380 balance in everything. It's, there's, I mean, you Rogan talks about all the time, the prefrontal cortex

00:19:23.360 of a human being is not formed until their mid twenties. Maybe in, you know, maybe don't let

00:19:28.740 an 11 year old govern everything that you want to do. Uh, yeah. Cause my 15 and a half year old

00:19:33.240 schedule would be, we will open the day with Xbox. I'll take a break on my phone. Right. Then I'll

00:19:38.300 eat, uh, something that has, uh, zero protein, zero fat, 100% sugar. Then I will recover on my

00:19:44.960 Xbox. It's all sounds pretty good. It's not going to serve you. Yeah. It's a, I might join him for a

00:19:51.480 day and then they don't feel like I'm dying from that sugar intake, but there's a reason. I mean,

00:19:55.640 they, I needed that discipline and guidance. I think everybody needs a little bit of that.

00:20:00.040 Do you have to navigate them through that point? Yeah. Yeah, you do. And that's part of the problem

00:20:03.940 with society now is that we, we have placed our children, I believe placed our children on pedestals.

00:20:09.080 They don't belong, you know, and allowed them to make a lot of the decisions and dictate the course of

00:20:13.000 schooling or how they feel or sports or whatever else. And then we spend an in or an amount of time

00:20:19.480 making sure their feelings are protected. Yeah. We don't keep score. Why? Cause heaven forbid

00:20:23.880 somebody feel bad. How do you think we arrived at this point? Well, we just live in a, in an age

00:20:28.660 of abundance. I mean, everything's so wonderful. Like it is the safest time to be a human being

00:20:35.500 in the history of the wealthiest. I mean, so how do people lose sight of that? Because that's one

00:20:40.440 thing. It's interesting. I sit back and I see what you're doing with order of man. And I enjoy it.

00:20:45.160 When you post some of the comments that you get where people are just trying to needle and pick

00:20:48.100 at you. Cause I'm going to, I'm going to assume that you get a good amount of those things just

00:20:52.060 because what you're saying and doing is counter to what have a lot of people or maybe are hearing

00:20:57.000 or used to hearing or their own opinions. But I don't understand how people can lose sight of the

00:21:01.580 fact that it is truly the safest time to be a human being ever. The opportunities that are available

00:21:06.720 are endless and boundless, especially in comparison to the vast majority of people who live on this

00:21:11.560 planet. That's true. Even in modern times. Yeah. You know, I think about, um, sex trafficking.

00:21:15.900 It's like, that is insane to me. That is still happening in 2019. That's crazy to me. And slavery

00:21:22.740 and some of these other things. I think the sex trafficking is actually on the incline.

00:21:26.940 Yeah. I imagine that's the case. And that, but that, but just think about that. Doesn't that sound

00:21:30.800 ridiculous? That sounds asinine that that is actually happening still to me or that it ever

00:21:36.180 happened. Yeah. I mean, I guess to a degree that if there's a demand, somebody is always going to try

00:21:40.920 to fill it. But yeah, the fact that it's still continuing on in this day is a tough one to wrap

00:21:45.600 my head around for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just think everything you asked about, how do you,

00:21:49.860 how do we lose sight of that? I think it comes down to everything is, is handed to us. I mean,

00:21:55.640 anything from, from the food that you want to climate controlled buildings to, Hey, I need

00:22:01.860 something. And I don't, I, we were talking about this with Pete, he wanted a new bow. So we

00:22:06.300 drove what, 30, 40 minutes right there. We've got it. And the money, you know, you just,

00:22:12.480 you put it on this little piece of plastic. There's no accountability with that.

00:22:15.620 And ones and zeros just kind of vaporize through the ethernet and a number gets smaller in your

00:22:20.280 account and bigger in somebody else's account. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then if, you know, if you

00:22:24.640 overcharge and you get in too much trouble, you just declare bankruptcy and wipe a lot of that stuff

00:22:28.340 out. And so there's no accountability, there's no consequence. And so when our children grow up and

00:22:34.500 when we've spent so much time, uh, uh, acquiring things and having what we want at on demand,

00:22:41.820 it's easy to, to not really have to consider the alternative, which is that you have to

00:22:48.280 fight for survival or in your case and spending time in the military that somebody actually wants

00:22:53.880 to kill you because they hate your guts. Like people don't think about that stuff cause we're

00:22:57.920 not exposed to it. Yeah. Which is a good thing. And perhaps maybe a bad thing, given the,

00:23:02.560 it changes the optic that you view the world from. Well, and I think that comes back to what

00:23:06.260 you were saying earlier is voluntary hardship. It's good in that we're not having to face these

00:23:10.520 kind of life and death struggles, but we should also be putting ourselves in those positions

00:23:16.340 voluntarily inside controlled environments. Something as simple as going to the gym and

00:23:20.260 putting 300 pounds on your back and trying to lift it up as a voluntary hardship scenario in a

00:23:24.680 controlled environment. You're not going to hurt yourself within reason. I'd also, I actually would

00:23:28.760 support a two year mandatory service for, uh, men and women growing up. And then I don't mean that

00:23:33.640 in the military could be the peace corps, the red cross, whatever it is, but just something outside

00:23:37.140 of yourself, preferably outside of the state or city that you live in and even a bit better if it

00:23:41.860 could be international. I think that would change a lot of the perspective for people.

00:23:46.320 That's interesting. I thought about that. And I know you say that, um, my, you know,

00:23:50.420 and I'm glad you said maybe outside of military service as well.

00:23:53.340 Oh, definitely outside of that. Cause the military is not for everybody as you know.

00:23:56.000 And do I want a fighting force that that's, that's coerced into being there?

00:23:59.560 It's like, I don't know how, but there's so many ways to serve. You know what I mean? And

00:24:03.440 using that term broadly, like I said, peace corps educational, go, go somewhere and be a farmer or

00:24:08.960 something. It has to serve something other than you. Yeah. I think that would change the way a lot

00:24:14.020 of people think about what they have and the appreciation that they have for it.

00:24:18.440 That's true. That is true. I think that level of responsibility is very, very powerful. We spend a lot of

00:24:23.420 time shirking responsibility. You know, what can I get away with? What, what, what's the absolute

00:24:28.380 most I can get exerting that the least amount of effort, right? When it should be the exact opposite,

00:24:35.360 you know? Yeah. You've got to, you've got to quote unquote, get yours, but I kind of look at getting

00:24:39.380 yours as a result of giving, you know, it's the law of law of the harvest. You can only harvest what

00:24:44.920 you sow, you know? Yeah, that's true. So the more, the more responsibility you can take on,

00:24:51.000 the more meaning that you have in your life, the more you're giving back, the more you're

00:24:53.940 serving in a meaningful way. I mean, that stuff has, has a tendency of returning back to you.

00:24:58.200 It will, it has to, it's a principle. Yeah, I can get on board with that. What's new in the

00:25:02.820 order of man world? Oh man, a lot of the same. I mean, the podcast is going really well. That's

00:25:08.520 killing it. Um, events have been huge. One thing we'd started doing, um, let's see about four months

00:25:15.040 ago is we, we brought a new event, uh, up. It's called legacy and it's for fathers and their

00:25:20.140 sons. Cause I recognize there's a huge need. I mean, look, we got to focus on, on, on helping

00:25:25.060 get men get right for sure. But we've also got to turn around and turn to our sons. We're growing

00:25:30.260 up in a fatherless generation. You know, there are more kids are being born out of wedlock. We see

00:25:34.780 divorce. Dad's not around. Um, the family court system is stacked against men. And so a lot of these

00:25:39.740 guys who are in divorce situations, aren't able to see their kids. Uh, court system is keeping them

00:25:44.780 back from their kids. And so, Oh, you mean the default is just basically it falls back to the

00:25:48.740 mother. Yeah. I mean, I think about my own, my own childhood. Um, my dad was out of the

00:25:53.900 picture by the time I was three. Now in my situation, it made sense. My mom had full custody

00:25:57.980 of us. And, uh, you know, we, we saw our, our dad, um, in the summers and things like that

00:26:03.620 during school breaks, but there's too many situations where the default is go to mom, whether

00:26:10.640 that's good for the kid or not. Yeah. It's not even a consideration a lot of these times.

00:26:14.840 And so dads are, are literally quite literally being kept from their children. And I realize

00:26:21.200 there's situations where, yeah, that probably should be the case situationally dependent

00:26:24.380 for sure. But there's also situations where children, sons and daughters need, need dad

00:26:29.360 around. Well, I think it's a balancing aspect from a, just a basic perspective. I mean, there's

00:26:34.720 a difference between, in my opinion, at least a mother and a father from obviously the biological

00:26:39.900 perspective, but also oftentimes a parenting perspective or a personality perspective.

00:26:45.780 And I think the balance of both is extremely healthy. I think you have to have that to

00:26:49.220 be well-rounded. Totally. I mean, I'll give you an example. My kids were, were wrestling

00:26:53.140 around the other night and my second son started crying and my wife ran over there and started

00:26:57.680 to hug him. I'm like, hold, hold up. Like, you don't even know what's going on right now.

00:27:02.620 That's just her mother instinct kicking in.

00:27:04.340 And it's not wrong. It's not wrong. But, but he also needs the balance. Like, Hey man,

00:27:10.320 stop crying. Like what's like, you're not injured obviously. So stop crying. Let me know

00:27:14.880 what happened and let's get this thing figured out. And I'm not wrong either. It's the, like

00:27:19.020 you said, it's the balance of between the two. When my kids get hurt, I usually just like

00:27:23.440 one or like, you know, it started, I think when my kids are learning how to ride a bike

00:27:27.980 and guess what? You're not awesome at it when you first start and you'll fall over and you

00:27:32.780 get pinned by the bike. Dad, come help me. And I would go right up next to him and I would

00:27:36.220 just talk to him. I'm like, listen, I'm going to show you how to get out from underneath

00:27:39.500 your bike. I'm not going to do it for you. And I'm talking through it. I'm like, you can

00:27:43.100 take a breath. You're going to be okay. I know it's scary, but you know, lift this up

00:27:47.700 and slide yourself out versus always running and doing it for him. And if they were really

00:27:52.700 hurt, I would absolutely run. And that's different. Yeah. Absolutely. Run a dude for him, scoop

00:27:56.040 them up, get them to the hospital, whatever they need. But I think it's important to allow

00:27:59.520 them to figure out and to navigate and to understand that they're capable of getting

00:28:03.200 themselves out of really, uh, you know, difficult and dangerous situations. I have conversations

00:28:09.100 with all of my kids, you know, it's take a deep breath, think about what's happening

00:28:13.900 before you make a rash decision, think yourself through what's going on. And a lot of the times

00:28:18.540 they completely ignore that, but my narrative and mantra is going to be the same through the

00:28:22.720 course of their life. And so hopefully they'll adapt it. I'm sure I did exactly the same

00:28:25.980 thing, but I mean, it's important for sure. But it's, yeah, I mean, the balance between the mom

00:28:33.820 and dad, I think is huge. It is. And unfortunately I think a lot of society isn't getting the masculine.

00:28:39.920 Yeah. It's an interesting term. I see you, uh, again, watching the order of man stuff. The term

00:28:43.960 masculinity shows up. Of course, most people, not most people, that's a terrible term or a terrible

00:28:48.960 thing to say. A lot of people will say, you know, they'll associate toxic with the masculinity

00:28:53.180 without any definition. Right. I oftentimes find when people are defining toxic masculinity,

00:28:57.600 it has nothing to do with what I would define masculinity as. Right. And I would agree the

00:29:01.580 things that they're saying are not, they're not healthy, but it's an interesting time, I guess.

00:29:07.280 Well, and part of the reason this is actually magnified is because on social media, you can't,

00:29:12.300 you can't talk about the, well, you can, it's just more difficult to talk about or bring up the

00:29:16.720 nuances. I don't think people have the bandwidth or desire to dig into the nuance on social media.

00:29:21.960 Well, I think there's just a lot of lazy people out there for sure. Right. Who's like, well,

00:29:26.380 here's what he said. And I'm not going to think about any context or, or use any level of discernment

00:29:31.000 to try to figure out in what manner he meant this. I'm just going to take it at face value and take

00:29:34.920 it so literally and then jump to some conclusion and then be upset about it. And I was, I was talking

00:29:40.300 with somebody about this earlier. We have, even we were talking about it. We have nothing to worry

00:29:45.460 about really. And so we, as human beings, I think strive for, or crave challenge adversity.

00:29:54.300 And because we have no adversity, we make dumb shit up to worry about.

00:29:58.060 We create adversity out of something that may not necessarily be an adverse situation.

00:30:01.760 Right. Right. That's so true, man. It is. It's crazy.

00:30:06.040 You were saying before, you know, trying to get men, right. What do you think the biggest challenges

00:30:09.520 or what, when you say we need to get men, right, what do you see going wrong with men

00:30:13.940 from your perspective? Well, I think, I think first and foremost, you know, to come back

00:30:17.880 to this idea of toxic masculinity, and I know that's defined in a lot of different ways.

00:30:21.600 That's why I don't like to use the term because it can mean so many different things.

00:30:24.520 Yeah. It's a lot of variables. Yeah. Uh, but I think first and foremost, our boys are being

00:30:29.760 taught that, that they're wrong or they're bad or the characteristics they're exhibiting are

00:30:33.820 somehow inherently toxic or negative. You know, the American psychological association did a,

00:30:38.920 uh, did a study that said that the traits and not even virtues, the traits and characteristics

00:30:44.220 that we as men inherently possess and display such as, uh, dominance, aggression, competitiveness,

00:30:51.340 stoicism, et cetera, et cetera, are inherently disruptive or, uh, toxic to at any level or just

00:30:59.280 in general or in general, that's the terms they used. They didn't make the distinction between,

00:31:04.160 okay, when can aggression can, let me, let me, I'll say it this way. Can aggression,

00:31:08.920 be taken to the extreme? Yeah. Yeah. So it can water consumption though. Right. Exactly.

00:31:13.780 I mean, but when you say that in aggression in itself or stoicism or competitiveness in

00:31:18.320 and of itself by its nature is somehow. I would have to, yeah, I would have to disagree with

00:31:23.060 that for sure. I think anything can be just about anything to be used at a healthy level,

00:31:28.880 but you can take some, what would seem to be completely innocuous food, go to the extreme

00:31:33.880 and you can eat yourself to death or you can starve yourself to death. Right.

00:31:36.260 You can find a happy medium, uh, aggressiveness. I mean, even for my old job, you can take it

00:31:41.860 entirely too far and you can not have enough of it and you're not going to be able to survive

00:31:45.620 in that community. You have to find the balance in between. Of course it can be taken too far

00:31:49.680 and certainly it could become toxic to use that. You know, the soup is your term of the day,

00:31:53.200 but you have to have it. Right.

00:31:56.980 Right. The capacity for it. Yeah.

00:31:58.600 At least, but needs to be kept in check. Well, and I think having these types of discussions

00:32:03.160 are important because when you say, what are men, what's going wrong? I think that's part of what's

00:32:07.480 going wrong is that we aren't, we aren't, I don't want to say loud. That's, that's a weird way to say

00:32:12.480 it. Um, we aren't encouraged to express that masculinity. Do you think it's a truly deep level

00:32:19.060 or do you think that that those kinds of comments mostly live in the social media world? And I,

00:32:23.780 and I asked that because like, say you watch Fox news or CNN, you'll think constantly that the

00:32:28.560 world is falling apart and you go have a conversation with somebody who's perhaps your

00:32:31.900 neighbor who doesn't watch Fox news and CNN and they have, everything's fine. And it could be

00:32:36.260 somebody who is at, at complete odds with you and the way you believe. Maybe they don't believe

00:32:40.660 religiously what you believe. Maybe they're homosexual and you're straight. Maybe they're a

00:32:44.520 liberal and you're a conservative. And yet you have this neighbor who you completely get along with,

00:32:48.420 but you're, you know, you're supposed to hate that individual.

00:32:50.680 Well, and if you listened to or followed what you saw and heard, it would, it would be an issue.

00:32:55.880 And I just feel, I'm curious as to, you know, the 24 hour news cycle being what it is. They,

00:33:02.740 they need to have something to report at all times. I don't live in that world at all,

00:33:06.120 but I have just found such a disconnect between the way they portray the world and the way most

00:33:09.880 people actually see the world. And I think social media where a lot of this stuff lives, you know,

00:33:14.580 the toxic masculinity, like I've never had that conversation with my neighbor, right? You know,

00:33:19.360 it never comes up and they have a daughter and a son and people in my neighborhood,

00:33:22.920 the kids act like kids and we're not out in the, in the streets screaming at each other about toxic

00:33:27.180 masculinity. But then on the internet, everybody, it's World War three and it's trench warfare.

00:33:32.800 I think a lot of the problem is, you know, exacerbated by those who would prey upon our

00:33:38.460 outrage, right? It's like, if we can get these people riled up, we can sell more,

00:33:42.720 we can advertise more, we can get more of their time, attention, energy, things like that.

00:33:46.240 I do think there's an underlying, I hesitate to use the word attack, but certainly dismissal of

00:33:52.220 masculinity. I think the, the masculine figure leader of a home or a community is being undermined.

00:33:59.200 I definitely think the family is being undermined at every turn. Is it, is it some master plan?

00:34:06.520 Yeah, I don't know. But I do know that individuals who are not independent thinkers,

00:34:13.520 if they're not led by a good and capable father and mother in the home, if they're not learning

00:34:20.640 these things, they're more easily manipulated and controlled by the powers that would be. So whether

00:34:25.640 that's the school system or the government or potentially even the military, you and I have

00:34:30.500 both have military experience. You know, the whole goal is to get people to toe the line,

00:34:35.460 to do what they're told when they're told to do it. And how do you, how do you do that?

00:34:39.440 Well, you strip away any sort of outside or conflicting authority figure, which could be

00:34:43.960 the patriarch, right? The father of the home, the, the leader in the community and undermine

00:34:48.880 the family and men in general.

00:34:51.340 I think one of the things I'm most grateful to my parents for is just really calibrating

00:34:55.940 for me, my moral compass. You know, they gave me the, uh, certainly enough rope to hang

00:34:59.900 myself. And I did on many occasions and boundaries. And, uh, but they were also there at the same

00:35:06.220 time, but they really helped me figure out who I was. So then it's a lot harder to pull

00:35:11.000 the wool over your eyes when you already have a better understanding. You're less apt to seek

00:35:15.020 that guidance from social media, which thank, I am so thankful that I didn't have to live

00:35:23.020 in the social media world when I'm my kids age.

00:35:24.820 Yeah. First off, I, I can only imagine the things I would have said that would have been

00:35:32.240 recorded for all of history. Yes. Had I had the ability to just type out my random 15

00:35:37.200 or 18 year old thoughts. Oh my, there would have been some ones that are up on the wall

00:35:43.520 for eternity. And I would look at them every day and I'm like, Oh, and I struggle with that

00:35:47.440 with my kids. Like this is instant access and the ability to say what they want and not really

00:35:52.580 do what they want. But just it's, I keep telling them like, if you type this in and hit send,

00:35:56.540 or you send a picture, right. Or all this stuff, these kids are doing it lasts forever. And it's

00:36:01.360 a concept that I didn't have to deal with. And even with the moral compass that my parents gave me,

00:36:08.140 I think I would have struggled with just the ease of access to being able to do that. It's

00:36:11.860 really, really tough. Cause I'm trying again, trying to get my kids a, a moral compass, but we

00:36:16.240 have had internally in our house, some issues with things that were typed. And did you actually mean

00:36:21.940 that? No, but it doesn't matter because screenshot circulation, they've ended up at, I've been to

00:36:27.700 the school having a conversation with the vice principal. And it's interesting because they

00:36:31.700 realize that those kids are basically just communicating their thoughts and they may not

00:36:36.040 need it. And this new medium exists, but they still have to address it given what all the things

00:36:39.680 that have happened in the world and are specifically in the United States. It's, uh, I mean, come on,

00:36:45.400 it's hard enough. It is this to be a teenage boy. We don't need to add all this other stuff.

00:36:49.420 I know, man. I know it's gnarly. It's crazy. I just had a conversation with, with my, you know,

00:36:54.900 my son about this is to go back to your moral compass is, you know, he's, he's at the point

00:37:00.520 where he's probably going to be exposed to drugs or alcohol, potentially pornography. Some of these

00:37:06.280 things that, you know, ideally I wouldn't want to be exposed to two of my three kids have been

00:37:10.400 across that hurdle. The kids, their age, their cohort is, you know, not everybody gets a moral

00:37:17.420 compass at home. Right. And some people seek it and their compass gets calibrated in the wrong

00:37:22.020 direction. And they're in the same school. My kids are in the same social circles with the same

00:37:26.080 internet connection. Yep. Yeah. And then if they don't have the moral compass, it's very easy. I mean,

00:37:30.840 it's easy anyways, when you're, when you're a young, a young boy and you're trying to fit in and you're

00:37:35.060 trying to find your place and you're trying to be cool and, and hang out with, I mean, we do that

00:37:38.760 as adults, right? Let alone as 15 year old kids. Yeah. It's not like it ends. We just have more

00:37:42.880 gray hairs. That's right. Right. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's easy if you're in the moment,

00:37:48.520 right. And, and somebody offered, like I was telling my son, I said, it's easy if you're in

00:37:52.380 the moment and you've got, you know, five, six, seven of your buddies around and they're all

00:37:55.580 drinking alcohol, it's going to be easy for you to want to do that. You've got to decide now what

00:37:59.740 it is you're going to do, what you stand for, what you don't, and how you're going to get yourself

00:38:03.580 out of that situation. That's that moral compass. You've got to make decisions before they happen.

00:38:09.740 So you're less likely to make the wrong decision when emotions and peer pressure and all these

00:38:14.320 other things come at you. Yeah. I mean, we, we just couched that in the terms of contingency

00:38:17.980 planning. The best way to make a decision in a crisis is to have already worked your way through

00:38:21.920 it before it becomes a crisis. Yeah. It's tough though. I mean, I remember those social circles

00:38:26.320 where all your friends are, have a beer, have a beer. And just like, ah, and you know it's wrong

00:38:30.700 and yet you do it anyways. Yeah, you do. And, and it's a, we're having some issues with my oldest

00:38:36.340 son kind of just along this exposure. And I, I'm currently, I struggle, I struggle because

00:38:43.940 I'm trying to find the balance of, I know that he's going to get exposed to these things

00:38:49.160 in his life at some point. And I know when I was initially exposed to them and it's right

00:38:52.960 around the same time period that he's at right now. So it's a natural portion of life and the

00:38:57.240 balance between having him feel empowered and able to make decisions. And then also being

00:39:02.160 a parent that is there to shepherd him along the path and keep him on the path. And I mean,

00:39:07.060 you know, as well as I do, I'm still looking for the book that has the instruction manual on how to

00:39:10.800 be the perfect parent. It doesn't exist. It's not out there. I'm making it up as I go. And

00:39:15.180 some of this stuff scares the crap out of me and others. I'm like, okay, you know, I think I

00:39:19.620 understand how to do this. And it's a, it's challenged. It's a challenging phase right now for

00:39:24.460 me and my kids for sure. Man, I got to interrupt the conversation real quick. I told you I would,

00:39:30.780 and I told you a bit ago that we've got an event coming up and I know you've probably heard of it

00:39:35.000 by now. It's the order of man main event and it's taking place August 10th and 11th. And of course,

00:39:40.180 there's an exclusive iron council dinner on the evening of the ninth. So if you want to come to

00:39:45.020 that, you need to be a member of the iron council as well. But our whole, our whole goal for the

00:39:48.740 event is to teach you the frameworks for success in your health and your wealth, your relationships,

00:39:54.100 your life. And then of course, I want to introduce you to the network of men who are all

00:39:58.140 achieving big things in their lives. This is a band of brothers, if you will. And there's power

00:40:02.740 in men banded together, sitting shoulder to shoulder, face to face, hashing out some of these,

00:40:08.520 these ideas. And of course, strategies for improvement in their lives. That's what we're

00:40:12.460 going to be doing mixed in with some, some activities. We'll leave it at that because I

00:40:17.040 don't want to be sitting in a, in a conference room for two days. We're going to have you in my barn.

00:40:22.440 We're going to do some cool events. We've got some dinners planned. It's going to be very cool.

00:40:26.160 So we've been making plans for this experience on my property. And to say that I'm extremely

00:40:31.320 excited about what we're putting together would be a huge understatement. So if you are interested

00:40:36.040 in learning more and then locking in a seat at the table, then head to order of man.com slash

00:40:42.100 main event. Again, that's order of man.com slash main event. And main event is main is in the state

00:40:47.500 main order of man.com slash main event. Do it quickly. We only have 25 spots left. So

00:40:52.800 you want to jump on that as quick as possible. Again, order of man.com slash main event. Do that

00:40:57.520 after the show. We'll get back to my conversation with Andy. There, there hasn't been many things in

00:41:03.240 my life that have kept me up at night. You know, occasionally like very, very acute things that I

00:41:07.920 might be dealing with, you know, like I don't have any money in the bank account and I can make this

00:41:11.760 bill. Right. And so we figured it out and then it's no longer an issue, but perpetually the things

00:41:16.420 that keep me up at night are thinking about, you know, my, my kids and how they're going to grow

00:41:22.300 up. And, you know, to your point, I don't want to shelter them to the point where.

00:41:27.660 That creates long-term problems. That's a short-term solution for the parent, I think.

00:41:31.800 Yeah, for sure.

00:41:32.340 But it's a long-term problem for the life of the child.

00:41:34.620 To me, it's a little bit like that, that preacher's daughter situation where, you know,

00:41:38.560 you're so rigid and so disciplined and sheltered them so much that they go out and they just go

00:41:42.960 insane when they're out from underneath your wing. They're dancing in a barn. Exactly.

00:41:47.020 When they're not supposed to. Exactly. You know what I mean? Flash dance.

00:41:49.500 The wrong kind of. Dirty dancing. No, that's not dirty dancing. What? It was Kevin Bacon.

00:41:54.140 Yeah. He was in a tractor war with somebody. It went into the river.

00:41:58.280 Uh, what's the show? I cannot believe I'm referencing this, but I watched it.

00:42:02.160 They actually, they actually filmed part of it in Northern Utah.

00:42:05.160 Footloose. Don't come out with that.

00:42:07.140 That's right. That's what it is. Yep.

00:42:09.620 I apologize for that reference to everybody. We'll cut that out if we need to.

00:42:11.540 No, we're leaving that. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the things that keep me up on that at night,

00:42:16.800 but, um, same here. I mean, I'm, I've been hurt plenty of times in my life and I don't really

00:42:20.940 worry about physical injury for me, but the thought of physical injury or the struggling

00:42:25.240 for my kids, it's yeah, it, it's a tough one to shut down. It is tough and it neat, but it needs

00:42:30.360 to happen. They have to be, they have to be challenged with it. That doesn't mean it sits

00:42:33.520 any better in my stomach as an apparent, but it, but that, that actually makes it harder

00:42:38.820 because you're supposed to let them struggle and you're supposed to let them feel the full

00:42:42.840 weight of the decisions they make. Yeah. And yet you know how painful that is. So you don't

00:42:48.340 want them to experience it. And yet it's probably the best thing for them. Well, my concern is

00:42:52.700 that I want to make sure that the decisions that they're, that I'm allowing them to have

00:42:55.940 that full weight and burden of, or appropriate for the age and capacity that they're at.

00:43:00.000 Sure. You know, it's, there's, as my children get older, the problems, I suppose, could be

00:43:08.260 best described as more complex because they're doing more complex things. And they're certainly,

00:43:13.280 you know, I don't want to have to have my 15 and a half year old to make a decision about

00:43:16.380 being exposed to cocaine. Right. You know, that's, let's save that for when you're a little

00:43:20.120 bit later. Right. Uh, so I just want to, I'm trying to make sure, you know, I want him to

00:43:24.420 have friends, but I want him to have the right friends because I don't want him forced into

00:43:28.340 those situations before he is ready, even though I know he's going to have to make them

00:43:32.260 in his life, but I want to prepare him for those decisions before he gets shotgunned by

00:43:36.020 him. So what are some of the things that, that you feel like you do that, that gives

00:43:42.220 your children the tools or the, at least the mindset to some degree to be able to resist

00:43:46.600 some of these temptations? Like how are you heading that off ahead of time? I mean, educating

00:43:51.240 and talking openly and honestly about the, the impact that it can have on your life for me

00:43:57.220 is one of them. Uh, and just having very frank conversations, you know, like I know that there

00:44:02.700 are people at his school that are smoking weed and they're drinking, uh, can people function

00:44:08.520 in life and do those things? Yeah, it's possible, but not at the age of 15 and a half, you know

00:44:13.080 what I mean? And talking about the impact it can have on their life going forward. Um, talking

00:44:18.400 about how it might seem appealing at the time and it might seem actually like an escape, you

00:44:22.460 know, you're having a hard day and it might seem like an escape, but it's not actually

00:44:25.240 an escape because it's not solving any of the problems. Right. And so for me, the biggest

00:44:28.720 thing is just trying to educate them and have open and honest conversations about the potential

00:44:32.680 negative impact of it. And then, you know, trying to teach them about choices and letting

00:44:38.120 them make a bunch of choices in their life and have to suffer the consequences from it.

00:44:42.780 Um, I'm usually, I'm trying to be there with them, but not tell them how to do things.

00:44:46.180 If they have something that needs to get done, I'm there to help them. And again, this

00:44:48.860 doesn't necessarily tie into the temptation thing, but just more kind of working through

00:44:52.580 their own decision-making process and seeing the consequences of a bad decision versus

00:44:56.320 the rewards of a good decision. Yeah. Uh, you know, what I think doesn't work with my

00:45:02.540 kids or wouldn't work with them is just saying, you know, these are evil. Don't ever, you know

00:45:07.240 what I mean? Like, cause I'd almost, it almost instills a sense of wonderment or awe in it

00:45:11.960 a little bit. And I don't know the right path. I mean, what do you do? I mean, I'm curious

00:45:15.680 to hear what you do as well.

00:45:16.740 Uh, very much the same. Uh, in fact, I was having a conversation the other day with somebody

00:45:20.460 about, um, kids and firearms and they were asking me if I keep my kids from firearms.

00:45:24.200 I'm like, no, why?

00:45:25.500 It's actually the opposite for me. I tried to expose them to it as much as possible.

00:45:28.760 That's exactly right.

00:45:29.420 And my rule was, if you ever have a question about a gun, you ever want to touch a gun,

00:45:33.180 you come get me and we're going to walk through it. Every time my kids touch a gun, we walk

00:45:37.420 through it. I'm like, how do you treat a gun? I'll treat it like it's loaded. Do you ever

00:45:40.040 pointed at anybody? No. Do you ever pointed at anything? No. Do you ever put your finger

00:45:42.940 on the trigger? No. What do you do if you find a gun and when you're out with your friends,

00:45:47.460 you need to leave it and you go get an adult and we walk our way through it. And then I talk

00:45:50.220 them through again, how to hold it. And we just, and now they see a gun and they're like,

00:45:55.500 okay, yeah, there's no, it's not, there's no curiosity. It's not a mythical device that

00:46:00.540 they're only hearing about on, on the news. They understand how it works because they've

00:46:04.740 been exposed to it.

00:46:05.680 Yeah, I agree. I mean, I agree. Uh, one of the things that we, we have agreed, my wife

00:46:10.300 and I have agreed on is that we, we try very hard not to make our children feel stupid

00:46:15.100 about things. And the reason that's important to me for, and I'll use girls, for example,

00:46:19.660 is I don't want to tease my boys about girls. Oh, like who's your girlfriend? You know, I don't

00:46:24.220 want to do that stuff. I don't want to do that because when that situation comes, I want them

00:46:28.220 to be comfortable to come to me and talk about it in a serious way. Um, I don't, I don't tease

00:46:34.760 them about not knowing something like, Oh, you're an idiot. Like you should know that because

00:46:39.280 I want them to be able to come to me and ask questions about, Hey dad, I don't know about

00:46:42.780 this one particular thing. Can you show me? Can you teach me? Yeah. Um, that, that to

00:46:46.980 me has, has worked pretty well, I think, I guess, I hope. Uh, but I think there's a lot

00:46:51.160 of people who just like tease and make people feel stupid. And then it's like, they, then

00:46:55.180 they encourage them to come to them to talk about this stuff. It's like, why would they

00:46:58.600 come talk to you?

00:46:59.600 Well, what they'll probably do if you feel uncomfortable, I mean, cause we've all had

00:47:03.460 friends like that in our life where he doesn't want to ask the question because you're

00:47:06.600 going to, the response, they're going to bust your balls. So what you do is you seek another

00:47:11.220 source of information, which might be in your social circle, which might be that kid

00:47:14.940 that doesn't have the compass, you know? So the answer to the question you get might

00:47:18.300 be diametrically opposed to what I would give. But if I've, my response is that default level

00:47:23.000 and it's pushing the person away, it doesn't matter how much information I have. If I can't

00:47:27.460 pass it on to somebody else, that's exactly right. Or, or, you know, they may go to another

00:47:31.060 source of knowledge or they may not do it at all and do something reckless and make their

00:47:36.120 own decision. Okay, well, I'm not going to ask, so I'll just go do this. And then they

00:47:39.040 make a decision that potentially impacts the rest of their life.

00:47:41.940 Yeah. And that's my concern with a 15 and a half year old. Like, how do I give you the

00:47:46.640 ability to make decisions, but also make sure you don't end up in jail. That is the mental

00:47:50.560 juggling that I'm doing right now.

00:47:52.860 Yeah. Because if you come home and you're, and you're, and you're drunk, okay, let's say,

00:47:56.580 let's say you got a 15, 16, 17 year old kid comes home and he's drunk. Okay. Well, I mean,

00:48:01.240 obviously that's not ideal, but hopefully he sees there's some negative consequence of that.

00:48:04.780 Well, then you add, what scares me is you add to that. Okay. Maybe he got his driver's

00:48:08.140 license at 16. Maybe he, you know, then like, okay, we're driving around a 2000 pound vehicle

00:48:13.240 where they could take the life. Yes. Those are the things that weigh on me because I think

00:48:17.900 because, and I tell my son this, I'm like, listen, I have a few more laps around the sun

00:48:22.180 than you do. It doesn't mean that I'm a smarter person than you. It doesn't mean that I'm a

00:48:25.380 better person than you, but I know so many people that that has happened to that that keeps

00:48:30.020 me up at night. And he probably doesn't know anybody that that has happened to. So that weight

00:48:34.140 of that decision or those actions weighs on me more than it does on him. So I'm trying to find

00:48:40.300 these ways to ensure that that doesn't happen. Yeah. Yeah. Cause coming home loaded and you're

00:48:44.900 hung over the next day. Oh, guess what? Time to work out. Like we're going to, we're going to punish

00:48:49.120 you a little bit. You're going to do it to yourself and it's going to suck and you're going to understand

00:48:52.660 the negative impact. And that's not going to impact the rest of your life, but killing somebody

00:48:56.680 because you're, you're driving around drunk. Yeah. At the age of 16 or 17, that you have just

00:49:01.680 taken an off ramp onto where your life could have gone. And now who knows where you're going to end

00:49:07.020 up. That's exactly right. That, and that keeps me up at night. That's a scary thing. Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:11.500 Do you, uh, what type of activities? I mean, are you pretty involved with your kids? Like, do you

00:49:15.360 guys, you talk about snow activities? Are you hunting with them too? I haven't hunted with them.

00:49:19.360 Oh, actually I take the back. Uh, I took them down to Sonora, Mexico. They each were able to kill a

00:49:22.880 deer with their rifle. So as much as possible, they need to go through the hunter's ed program in Montana.

00:49:27.560 The type of hunting that I do mostly being bow hunting. I don't know if they would enjoy the

00:49:32.540 complexity and difficult of that yet. Yeah. The difficulty. Are you mostly spot and stock type

00:49:37.560 stuff? You're not sitting in a blind or a tree stand? I will occasionally sit in a blind. I've

00:49:41.000 sat in a tree stand one time. Uh, I really enjoy the Western style of hunting spot and stock and

00:49:47.860 getting out there. And it's, I mean, elk is by far my favorite animal to hunt for. And I guess you

00:49:52.600 could hunt that in a tree stand. I don't, I don't know enough about it, but the hunting that I have

00:49:56.480 done is you're covering, you know, 10, 12, 15 miles a day, which is not going to be optimal for

00:50:02.180 having a 13 and a 15 year old on, on your hip. Now, having said that, I want to do some rifle

00:50:07.000 hunting with them this year, just so they can, you know, I can get them all this stuff that they

00:50:10.300 need. The odds of success are going to be greater and the physical demand is going to be lower for

00:50:14.360 them to get that success. I think creating those wins, um, early and often is really important.

00:50:19.100 Maybe don't go elk hunting with your kid in the back country, bow for it. I mean, you might be

00:50:24.000 successful, but you also might ruin your child. Yeah. They're like, I'm never doing that.

00:50:27.880 Exactly. So I took my, uh, my oldest son again, he's 11, uh, hunting the end of last year. It was

00:50:35.160 a pig hunt in Texas, but we were in a blind over a feeder and he was using crossbow. Yeah. And you're

00:50:41.120 going to have multiple opportunities. You're going to be successful. I've taken my oldest son. He went

00:50:45.200 blind hunting once was very successful. Uh, my middle son has been once now Riley's been twice.

00:50:51.300 So it's, I'll definitely build on that. Um, yeah, because I want them to share in those

00:50:57.520 experiences. And then, you know, obviously I don't coach their teams because I travel too

00:51:00.680 much to be able to commit to coaching any of my son's teams. It's just the nature of my

00:51:04.740 job. Do you have three, three boys, two boys and a little girl, two boys and a girl.

00:51:08.120 Okay. 15, 13. And she just turned 11 last week. All right. Yeah. And, uh, but I go to,

00:51:13.160 you know, I'm physically present at as many of the events as I can be involved in and anything

00:51:16.980 that they want to do. And I try to be as actively involved in their lives as possible.

00:51:20.520 So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's important. I mean, you're, I've told people before is

00:51:24.720 like, you, you, you want your voice to be the loudest and most relevant voice. Yeah.

00:51:28.880 That way. And when they're faced with something, they're thinking, even if they're not consciously

00:51:31.700 thinking it, that your voice is what's going through their mind. Well, if you think about

00:51:36.340 it from, you know, next year I'll have a freshman in high school and a sophomore in high school.

00:51:40.880 My impact on them is decreasing every single day that I'm with my kids. It's so minimal.

00:51:45.340 Well, I look at their around, they're just around more people now than they are me.

00:51:48.680 Right. And because they go to school at eight, come back at three o'clock, somewhere between

00:51:53.160 three to four o'clock, they're going to go to bed five to six hours after that. There's no way

00:51:57.180 physically that unless I'm waking them up at two in the morning to say, Hey, it's dad time for four

00:52:01.660 hours. Yeah. And they're just going to roll over in bed and ignore me. Um, they they're now spending

00:52:06.560 more time with other people with more influence from other people, specifically their social networks,

00:52:11.180 uh, than they are with me. Right. Yeah. It's kind of a, it's exciting to see them branch out like

00:52:16.380 that. But at the same time, you know, it is. And I think, and it's sad too, you know, like I love

00:52:20.860 my kids. I love having around. I, I love mine sometimes. Yeah. Some like, yeah, let's be honest

00:52:25.640 here. Some children, children are created and designed to sharpen their teeth on your bones.

00:52:30.540 That's right. It is unbelievable for them. And it's also for you. Yes. It's the most painful

00:52:35.720 slash rewarding experience humanly possible. Have fun. People have a lot of kids. It's just,

00:52:41.820 it's, it's, you know, when I think about, um, my son, you know, the 11 year old I keep talking

00:52:46.540 about here is, is, you know, in seven years, he's gone, man. Yeah. Like he's gone. I'm three

00:52:51.000 years from that. That's crazy. That's kind of like, it's exciting for them. Not exciting for me,

00:52:56.040 exciting for them. But then at the same time, like, man, that's my little buddy. You know,

00:52:59.020 I remember the day he came home from the hospital. Yeah. He was born premature. He was born four

00:53:03.860 weeks early and we fortunately didn't have to go to the NICU, but we, we brought him home and we had to

00:53:09.500 have him in this, you can only describe it as like a briefcase tanning bed that he had to be in all

00:53:14.900 the time. It had those lights, those lights or whatever. Cause he had jaundice. His liver hadn't

00:53:18.840 fully developed. But what is it? Vitamin D or E or whatever they're deficient in. Yeah. So these

00:53:23.180 lights help with that. So he was in there all the time. And my wife and I at night, we would, uh,

00:53:27.760 we would, we would take turns. So I would do a two hour stint with him out in the, in the living room

00:53:32.300 and try to sleep. But you have these blinding lights and then I'd trade and she'd come out and we'd do that.

00:53:36.520 Um, you know, to think about from that time to not that, and not, and not too long of a distance

00:53:42.320 here, you know, him, him leaving the nest and being gone is kind of a, kind of a weird thing.

00:53:46.640 I have those same thoughts. I mean, I was the first person to hold all three of our kids and my son was

00:53:51.660 born and I gave him his first bath with a sponge under the lights, you know, and like being able to

00:53:56.140 like, you know, his foot was like one third of the digit of my pinky. Yeah. How tiny. And now he's

00:54:02.620 like, dad, I want to learn how to drive a car. I'm like, what is happening right now? You can't,

00:54:06.660 you're only six. Yeah, exactly. Dad, I'm almost 16. Like, no, you're eight. There's no way. There's

00:54:11.460 no way. Yeah. And he'll always be, and I've had these conversations with my dad, you know,

00:54:14.720 I have a bunch of pictures. I've always been, uh, a snuggle bug for lack of a better term. I'm

00:54:20.060 with my mom and dad and there's a bunch of pictures of me just crawling around in their arms and

00:54:24.220 stuff. And my dad is, he's like, you're always going to be that boy to me. You know, my kids will be the

00:54:30.060 same way too, regardless of the path that they take. It's always going to be those moments where,

00:54:34.260 you know, those things that I think back on. Yeah. It's tough to imagine them in a few years.

00:54:38.700 I just hope what I want to be is the, is relevant in their life that they want to maintain contact

00:54:46.100 with me as opposed to me just reaching out and, you know, never getting anything back,

00:54:50.220 which is, and I'm sure I'll lose them a little bit along the way and navigate, but I just want to

00:54:53.460 make sure they always know that they can come back. Yeah. It's tough. It's not easy. It is.

00:54:57.160 What's your thoughts on, cause you, you don't, I mean, as far as you being on social media,

00:55:02.560 you're not as active necessarily as like I am. I put a lot of stuff out there, but what is your

00:55:06.680 thoughts about, um, your family on social media? I wonder if you have any like security questions

00:55:12.120 as you're, as you know, being a former seal and things like that. I don't have any concern about

00:55:15.860 my old job and the things that I used to do. I, I mean, because I, I'll get asked that. I mean,

00:55:21.240 there's some guys who take it much, much farther and they want to be like the gray man. But the

00:55:25.520 reality is everything that I did, um, there's no way you could associate it directly to me.

00:55:31.900 So there's no dude in a village somewhere overseas thinking I need to go get any stuff.

00:55:36.600 There's no band bounty on your head or whatever.

00:55:38.260 I mean, I, well, I mean, I guess there could be cause they would target service members or

00:55:43.020 just Americans in general, but first they'd have to have access to actually do something

00:55:46.080 about that. Uh, and the reality is, is I spent almost two decades of my life immersing myself

00:55:51.560 in violence. And if that person wants to come and try to find me in the country and the town

00:55:55.540 and the house that I live in, fucking bring it. And we're going to see how that works itself out.

00:56:00.560 Um, but I do, I'm very, for many years, I didn't post anything about my family on social media and

00:56:05.940 only very rarely will I post anything about my kids. And it's more just, I want them to have their

00:56:10.600 privacy. Right. You know, uh, my son has an Instagram account and he'll occasionally post stuff.

00:56:17.980 But for me, it's just, uh, I started social media as a contractual obligation when I was getting

00:56:24.120 into the skydiving and base jumping world. And I just kind of have always kept it to that. It's

00:56:28.340 a little bit more of a professional than a personal tool, I guess. I mean, I mean, I have no problems

00:56:34.580 posting about, uh, you know, family or my kids and stuff. I just post a picture of my daughter's

00:56:38.620 birthday and I was rowing around in a canoe and, but I don't post about them extremely often just

00:56:43.220 because I would just want them to have their space. Yeah. I get that. You talk about this, uh,

00:56:47.560 contractual obligation or like your sponsors wanted you to promote. Well, when you first

00:56:52.000 media, is that what it is? Yeah. I mean, and in the endorsement world, you know, one of the first

00:56:55.500 questions you're going to get asked is what's your social impact, you know, what's your impressions

00:56:59.380 and all of this stuff. And the first sponsors that I got five, six years ago, again, social media is

00:57:05.440 what it is. They, they want you to have a voice with which you can talk about your involvement with

00:57:09.300 their brand. Of course. And so there you go. They're going to pay for that. I mean, that's what

00:57:12.480 they're paying for. Correct. And then, so you need to have a presence on those platforms. So that was

00:57:15.940 specifically what it was for me. I had no social media at all when I was in the military. So it

00:57:20.880 was kind of a learn as I go. And I just, I kind of adopted that philosophy that it was more,

00:57:24.600 more business-based than personal base. It quite frankly, I don't find myself to be that, uh,

00:57:29.560 I'm kind of a boring as a person. I do the same things. Um, so yeah, I post stuff that I think is

00:57:37.380 interesting. I don't really look, I don't look at myself as a brand at all. I just post stuff that I

00:57:41.300 think is interesting. Right. You know, it's, and I know a lot of people treat it much more so like a

00:57:45.120 business and, but that's just, I don't know. That's just the way that I kind of look at it

00:57:48.980 and my family, I want to, you know, I've no super proud of them, but again, I want them to have

00:57:53.520 their privacy and is what it is. Yeah. I mean, I, I sometimes feel like, like I've created this

00:57:59.400 environment where I'm a slave to it a little bit, you know, because it is, well, it's part of your

00:58:02.620 business model. Right. Yeah. Which is, which is great. And again, totally fine. A lot of people,

00:58:07.560 yeah, it's a tool that you're using as part of your business model. And because of that,

00:58:10.980 you have to treat it like the tool that it is. But sometimes I don't want to post about what I'm

00:58:15.280 doing. I just want to do it and be very present in the moment. Um, and it's weird. It's, you know,

00:58:20.260 I don't feel like I have to, but I, but I do enjoy social media also. I enjoy putting it out there.

00:58:25.300 I enjoy being able to connect. Yeah. Just being able to connect. You know, we talk about, a lot of

00:58:29.160 people talk about from a negative context, how disconnected we are via social media. And I think to

00:58:34.140 myself, you know, yeah, maybe, but I can't tell, I mean, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

00:58:38.680 Nope. Right. And, and, and the guys that come to our events, they wouldn't come to the,

00:58:42.380 to the events. And they ask me about my family and they ask about the things that we're doing.

00:58:46.600 Like they're deeply connected and interested in what we're doing. And all of that happened via

00:58:50.140 social media. It's very powerful. Yeah. It's again, you can, can you take it too far? Oh my God,

00:58:54.500 you can take it too easily and you can over communicate and you can care far too much about

00:58:58.440 what other people say. And then you could have no social media at all. And you would have a little bit

00:59:03.480 of a disconnection from, like you're saying, we, you and I wouldn't have met the events and the

00:59:07.800 things that you're doing. Nobody would have, would hear about that if they chose not to be on social

00:59:11.220 media, but you got to find that balance at the extremes. I think in just about anything or where

00:59:15.140 danger comes from, not, not the, like, I don't worry about people who are moderate. Right. It really,

00:59:20.280 I don't care what your belief. I truly don't care what people believe as long as it doesn't start

00:59:23.600 impacting my life. And moderates never seem to impact my life with their beliefs or their actions

00:59:27.980 because they're just doing them. They live their life. Yeah. The extremists who are like,

00:59:31.680 you need to believe this and do that. I'm just like, ha ha, I got to go relaxed. Yeah. I'm not even going to talk with you.

00:59:36.920 I got to go. But the, but again, to come back to social media is a lot of these people are,

00:59:42.280 we're not rewarded via social media, which is a lot of, unfortunately the only reward system some

00:59:48.280 people have, but they're not rewarded for being moderate. They're rewarded for being extreme.

00:59:53.680 Yeah. Because the moderates on social media, just you're gray. Right. It's like, I don't care about

00:59:57.320 that guy. Oh, he, he has a family. He has a decent job. He makes, you know, a hundred thousand a

01:00:01.440 year. He's got two and a half kids in the white picket fence. So it's an interesting, yeah,

01:00:04.740 that's an interesting point because the reward system on that is skewed. And, and the reward

01:00:12.220 system doesn't discriminate between what is relevant or accurate and what isn't. So it can

01:00:17.920 be some complete bullshit. As long as it's, as long as it's polarizing, then it'll be rewarded.

01:00:23.680 Yeah. Which is crazy. Which, and you know, I have seen bleed over between the social media world and

01:00:28.520 the physical world. And I think that's where the danger comes from. These people want to be extreme in

01:00:32.120 the social media world. And so therefore their behavior in the real world changes from, I love,

01:00:37.060 I love internet comments because I know that these people would never speak like that in person.

01:00:45.140 So I use the elevator test. If you were in an elevator and the door is closed and you had to

01:00:48.940 turn and you and I were this far apart, would I say in the comment that I'm about to make on your page,

01:00:54.420 would I say it to your face? For the vast majority of people, the answer is absolutely not. So maybe use

01:00:58.820 that as your litmus test as to whether or not you should type it in. Yeah. But again, that's not

01:01:02.560 going to get the likes, man. I like it when people get uppity on some of this stuff. Cause I'll just

01:01:06.580 be like, I just go, I refuse to engage in a negative manner. And I just will kind of just go back to

01:01:11.860 them and explain a little bit of how I think, or just you're, you're so right. You're so smart.

01:01:15.700 Thank you for educating me. Cause it drives them bananas. It gets under their skin, man. It's hard

01:01:21.000 though. It's hard not to, some of these people, man, they're professionals that like,

01:01:24.340 they know exactly what to say. And I've even caught myself like, I'm not going to respond to that.

01:01:28.600 And then they say something else. I'm like, it's on, I got to respond. You don't have to,

01:01:33.140 no, you don't. That's the thing. It's a conscious decision. And you don't know the person don't allow

01:01:37.280 somebody you don't know to have an impact on your feelings, which I fail at all the time for people

01:01:41.440 listening or watching. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but it's probably one of the healthiest things that

01:01:45.340 you can do is manage the amount of people that actually have an influence on what you think about

01:01:49.700 and how you feel. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would be nice to go back to, and we can't go back.

01:01:54.540 So you have to manage it yourself. A time where, you know, you worried about your family, the people

01:01:58.120 in your house, you worried about your neighbors on either side of you, and you worried about your

01:02:01.640 coworkers. Yeah. We're past that point for sure. Yeah. The horse is not going back in the stable on

01:02:06.280 that one. But again, I think if you're a moderate in your use of social media, you're moderate in your

01:02:11.660 use of what, you know, the information sources, you're intelligent and you try to find a balance

01:02:16.000 between left and right or whatever, however you would describe it. I think you're going to be

01:02:19.980 okay. Yeah. Again, I think that, I mean, I don't think the answer, I don't like to use that term.

01:02:23.520 The answer is moderation, but for myself on almost every issue, I find myself landing in the middle.

01:02:28.100 I'm unwilling to engage in arguments with people because it gets nowhere. I'm not interested in

01:02:32.080 arguing. I'm interested in making a difference. Uh, it's just gotta be balanced.

01:02:36.600 That's actually one of the things that I appreciate about you. And I have, since I've known you over the past

01:02:40.840 couple of years is you've said some things that have surprised me in a way that, you know,

01:02:45.480 it didn't fit the mold necessarily. And to me, I looked at that and respected it because

01:02:50.300 I see that you're thinking about it, not just behaving the way that you're supposed to,

01:02:55.600 or saying the talking points that you're supposed to. I actually think that's a big problem with,

01:02:59.880 even in politics, when you talk about like the two party system, it's like, I can't think anything

01:03:04.300 else because I, I, I lean more conservative, for example. So I have to be conservative across the

01:03:09.540 aisle. It's like, what if I, what if I don't believe in all of that stuff?

01:03:12.380 Which I think most of them don't anyway. I think they're actually being untrue to themselves.

01:03:16.000 I'm sure there are people who are just on every issue, hard line, right or left. But again,

01:03:20.340 I've had neighbors that are on the left and the right and time and time and time again,

01:03:24.460 we agree on more things than we disagree on. That's right. But the, you know, the elected

01:03:28.360 representative is like, no, this is the hard line. And it just, I wonder whether or not at night

01:03:32.700 they're sitting there like, I don't actually really believe this as deeply as I'm saying.

01:03:36.540 Do you think that, or do you think they've just started to believe into their own

01:03:39.440 bullshit enough that they've started to just, I guess, act and believe in this delusional manner?

01:03:43.840 I think politicians are crazy. So I have no idea what they're actually doing.

01:03:46.820 Yeah.

01:03:47.300 I can't think of a job I would want less.

01:03:49.280 I can't imagine some of this stuff. Like I, I, like I see you guys, my, my thought three

01:03:54.760 years ago is like you, you couldn't be a decent human being and a politician. And if, and if anybody

01:04:02.220 wanted to get into politics, it was, it was some weird, that's right. But I see it now

01:04:07.800 and I see, and I don't know, like I see Dan Crenshaw, for example, I don't know if you know

01:04:11.340 Dan or not.

01:04:11.860 I just did a podcast with him. He's awesome.

01:04:13.360 Oh, that's right. You did.

01:04:14.280 I was his, uh, I was his proctor in his buds class.

01:04:16.540 That's right. I did listen to that podcast and I, and I thought, and he's great. He's one

01:04:20.200 of the few people that I think breaks that mold.

01:04:22.420 And that's what's interesting. I see him, I don't know him, but I see him and I think, you know

01:04:25.820 what? I feel like this is a good human being.

01:04:28.700 Yeah. And then I think to myself, so why the hell is he getting into politics? Like,

01:04:34.220 does he believe that he can really make a difference? I believe that's probably why he

01:04:37.680 has.

01:04:38.100 That's what I would say as well.

01:04:39.700 Which I don't think is normal. I mean, not, no, I'm not saying for him, I'm saying is not

01:04:43.060 common.

01:04:43.680 Correct. Yeah. I would say it's, uh, I mean, there's a lot of things that are atypical about

01:04:47.860 him, but I think he's in it for the right reasons. I think he's trying to make a difference

01:04:50.700 and I'll be interested to see how a system that often from my perspective and be the first

01:04:56.840 person to tell you that I have not a great depth of understanding of politics. It doesn't

01:05:01.500 seem like it's set up for those particular types of individuals to thrive. It seems like

01:05:05.360 the status quo sense.

01:05:07.000 Yeah. I think the status quo is often more important than actual change in that environment,

01:05:12.580 but he's, I mean, he's trying to make a difference. He's awesome.

01:05:14.880 You think he'll run for president?

01:05:15.880 I, I mean, I broad answer. Yes. Yeah. And I think, I think he will, if he can maintain

01:05:23.440 who he is, will continue to rise in the ranks of the Republican party.

01:05:27.660 What do you mean by maintain who he is or what would be the threat?

01:05:33.340 Being forced to accept a party line, you know, and I don't think he's that type of person

01:05:38.100 though. I think he, he's going to tell you what he thinks. I think he's going to do what

01:05:41.420 he thinks is right. He's going to be able to articulate and defend his positions and

01:05:44.460 his actions. But again, I don't, I don't, I mean, if you really want me to not trust

01:05:49.580 you, you can go be a politician because it's just, there's so much money involved.

01:05:54.140 The special interest involved is undeniable. The influence that they have is undeniable.

01:05:59.420 And again, I'll be the first person to tell you, I don't follow it incredibly closely because

01:06:03.240 I just get frustrated and upset when I do. So I know he's operating in an environment where

01:06:10.080 there is a lot of that going on. And you know, if you put your feet in a bucket of water for too

01:06:15.900 long, they're going to get pruney at some point. Yeah. So that's a good way to look at it. And

01:06:19.660 that's, that's true. Yeah. I, I, I could see him making a presidential run and being actually

01:06:25.900 very, very successful. If not 48, it'd be like 48 years from now, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

01:06:30.520 When you, when he has more of a foothold and people more experience and just that arena.

01:06:34.240 Yeah. Yeah. Well, you talk about experience. I mean, just the level of, uh, well, just what

01:06:39.180 they need to know to be able to, to talk with even each other. You know, it's like, I don't

01:06:43.900 want to learn that game. I'm not interested in learning. And it's a game. I mean, it is

01:06:46.880 a game and I don't want to learn that game. I agree. What's the balance though, between

01:06:51.360 being, being aware, like we have to be aware, right? And we should, we ought to be aware,

01:06:56.140 especially of the things that are happening in our country and then just completely burying

01:07:00.040 our heads in the sand. Well, I think if you bury your heads in the sand, it gives people

01:07:03.580 the opportunity to maneuver when you're not watching and they know when, you know, I think

01:07:08.380 a lot of, uh, I don't think it's accidental that there is so much overload on certain topics

01:07:13.660 because I think it provides people space to maneuver on other topics that people aren't

01:07:17.820 paying attention. And if they distract deliberate distraction, I think so. I mean, it's, you look

01:07:22.580 at a lot of the bills that are discussed, you know, a small percentage of things that are

01:07:26.700 happening in the government actually cover the headlines, right? And they just live in the

01:07:30.860 headlines. That doesn't mean that a lot of stuff isn't happening behind the

01:07:33.540 scenes. And you start reading into some of these bills and the things that are added

01:07:36.860 in the amendments and the addendums in them. And like, what are you, what's going on here?

01:07:40.400 But do you think it's a concerted effort between politicians and the media? Cause it would almost

01:07:44.460 have to be if that's what you're saying, right? Is that, okay, these, I think to a degree. Yes.

01:07:48.780 And again, this is my own personal opinion. I think that there is too much money and influence

01:07:55.120 involved. And if you follow the dollars, you're going to find that those individuals, the media

01:07:58.860 and those individuals are going to be intrinsically tied at some point. And I just think it's an

01:08:03.680 environment where certain things are going to grab headlines. If you're smart enough to make moves

01:08:07.540 and seems in leadership or seems in attention, you wait until an issue becomes huge. And then you try

01:08:12.760 to get something done that nobody's going to pay attention to. And you just, you know, it's a little

01:08:16.340 paper cut, but you can bleed to death with enough paper cuts. That's what's concerning to me with

01:08:20.020 people burying their head in the sand. Cause you'll never see any of that. But then also getting,

01:08:24.360 if you get so overwhelmed in your entire life as you're just trying to follow the political

01:08:28.000 environment, you're never going to get anything accomplished in life. Yeah. So, you know what

01:08:31.760 I mean? Balance. Oh, no, I know. I, I had, and I, I talked about this not too long ago. I think it

01:08:36.220 was on the podcast. In fact, it was one I did with my wife and I used to get riled up cause I'd

01:08:41.140 listen to Mark Levin, you know, and, and, and Hannity and some of these other guys. And I'd come home

01:08:45.860 and she could tell when I was listening cause I'd be so fired up and pissed off. And, and it wasn't

01:08:50.620 about work or anything that happened throughout the day. It was about my 15 minute drive home where

01:08:54.320 Hannity did an excellent job of getting me pissed off, which is ultimately his job, right?

01:08:58.600 Yeah. It's, it's, yes, I guess you could say political, but he's picking the topic that pisses

01:09:02.600 you off. Right. Deliberately. Yeah. Right. Cause you want to listen. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty

01:09:07.280 interesting. Yeah, it is. It's, uh, I don't know. I almost think we'd be better off just getting

01:09:13.800 everybody out of office and starting over again. Mandatory. Like if you can't balance the budget,

01:09:18.200 you're out. Oh, well there's, I mean, that's common sense. Like what you would think it's

01:09:23.420 common sense. Yeah. It doesn't mean it's common virtue. No, but it's just, it's crazy to me.

01:09:28.920 It's like, really? Like turn limits. Hey, we don't have any money. Okay. So I would love

01:09:34.600 to do all of these wonderful things for everybody on the face of the planet, but we don't have

01:09:37.540 any money. We can't. So let's be practical about this, but no, you can't, you can't do

01:09:41.340 that. You, your heart's got to be bigger than your pocketbook. Yeah. It's an again, it's,

01:09:45.880 so it's tempting for me not to want to pay attention to it. So I just keep my feet involved

01:09:49.840 in it just enough. So I have an idea of what's going on. And then I just avoid any and all

01:09:53.260 political arguments and discussions. I just don't see them getting anything accomplished.

01:09:57.280 Well, I think this comes back down to, you know, lead your family. Well, lead your neighbors,

01:10:01.260 well, leading your business. You know, we, I think we have a level of stewardship over the people who,

01:10:06.480 uh, listen in and tune in and follow along with us, lead, lead those people well. And,

01:10:12.440 and I think a lot of the stuff starts to take care of itself. Yeah, I agree, man.

01:10:15.520 Yeah. So what's, uh, what's on the docket for you? Anything new and exciting or, or anything

01:10:20.580 coming up? Uh, you know, I was talking with, uh, Pete and Brian about this last night on their

01:10:24.840 podcast. They were asking me what's going on. And for me, I'm trying to just maximize the things

01:10:31.020 that I do and not add more. When I first got out of the military, I was very open to just taking

01:10:35.440 every single opportunity, which is terrible from a time management perspective, you know, and just be

01:10:40.120 Do you think it's a necessity at some point though? I don't know if I would say it's a necessity.

01:10:43.720 I think it was an important step for me to take given the background and headspace that I was

01:10:47.660 coming from, but perhaps it's not the right steps for other people to take. I just, you know, the

01:10:53.740 first and 15th are the best days of the month of the military. Yeah. You're getting a government

01:10:57.140 check. Right. And then, you know, you kind of lose that. And so it becomes, well, where am I going to

01:11:01.320 get money from? I'll take every opportunity. Right. So you're getting pulled in a million directions,

01:11:05.300 not obviously not a million direction, but you're being pulled in many directions and, uh, found myself

01:11:10.180 doing a lot of things and I'd rather just really value the time more than the money. So trying to

01:11:15.360 trim away the things that are excessively, uh, weighing on my time, doing the things financially

01:11:21.400 that makes sense that I can maximize and have more time. So I'm trying to do, you know, more with

01:11:25.400 less essentially. Yeah. That's really about it. That makes sense. I think that's, that's a level

01:11:29.740 of, uh, well, it's a level of maturity. Yeah. I mean, so like the podcast, you know, continuing along,

01:11:34.760 I never had any desire for the podcast to really be anything other than sitting down and having

01:11:39.720 conversations with people. And then it can actually realize, oh, there's an economic

01:11:43.080 perspective of this. That's interesting. And I can still do these things and it doesn't take much

01:11:46.480 time. Uh, I do a lot of public speaking, which some of that is driven directly from the podcast.

01:11:51.140 So that's a way for me to get more from not adding any additional, you know, time constraints,

01:11:56.300 which, uh, the public speaking is by far the most, uh, financially rewarding, uh, and less

01:12:01.720 time consuming. And the endorsement deals continue, uh, some consulting deals continue,

01:12:06.580 but just trying to maximize those and make sure that I partner with the right companies and it's

01:12:11.100 the right allocation of my time. Yeah. And that's really about it. Just, so just more than another

01:12:15.940 way to describe that would be just cleaning up my life when it comes to business, business

01:12:19.740 perspective. That makes sense. Just being more efficient with the time that you have and

01:12:23.380 knowing how you're utilizing it. Yeah. Are you coming to a immersion camp this year? I'm going to try

01:12:27.620 too. It's at the, uh, beginning of hunting season. Oh yeah. That's tough. So I know it's

01:12:32.400 funny. Cause I have a lot of these guys that, that I kind of run in that circle a little bit

01:12:35.720 now, but you know, inviting them on the podcast or like, yeah, yeah. Reach out to me in the

01:12:38.980 beginning of the year. Cause they're gone to the end of August. And then they're just,

01:12:42.620 they're completely vapor locked on their mind on hunting. Right. I'll make it if I can. I've

01:12:47.900 really been enjoying doing jujitsu. It's been hugely beneficial for me from a physical

01:12:51.960 and mental perspective. And I see no reason why that would ever change. So it definitely would

01:12:57.160 light. And I've, uh, just recently started training a little bit outside of just the

01:13:01.140 environment of the gym that I train at in Montana. I trained at the SBG system, which

01:13:05.660 stands for straight to blast gym. I trained in the Kalispell location or the white fist

01:13:09.740 location. And I've just really been training with that group of people. I love them to death

01:13:14.520 and I'm very hesitant to train with people outside of that environment. Cause people

01:13:17.660 bring your gi dude, let's roll. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. I can tell from the tone

01:13:22.620 of your texts or message that you were just going to destroy me and piss off.

01:13:27.640 You did that to me. So now I know where, yeah, it's it. And so it's like, Hey, uh,

01:13:33.180 I'm very selective, but I also just really enjoy it. And I like the different, uh, flavors and

01:13:38.060 approaches and all that stuff that goes with it. So it's been, it's been really good.

01:13:41.680 Cool. Yeah. Yeah. It has been good. Right on, man. Well, I just want to let you know,

01:13:45.180 I appreciate you. I know we're winding down on time. Oh, I didn't ask you the question. I got to

01:13:48.140 ask you the question. What's the question? The question is, what does it mean to be a man? What

01:13:51.940 does it mean to be a man? Outside of the physiological perspective? Yep. That's a, that's

01:13:58.040 a prerequisite. We don't need to, I think most people listening understand that. Yeah. All right.

01:14:02.860 I'm just curious how much time I can stall here on my answer. What does it mean to be a man?

01:14:08.620 I think it means to me that you stand up for what is right, regardless of the potential

01:14:14.040 consequences, whether they be great or, uh, insignificant that you, you can hold the line

01:14:20.600 on doing what is correct. Right on, man. I love it. Powerful. Cool. All right. I think we're

01:14:26.620 going to go, uh, we're going to go roll. We are going to go roll. I'm going to try to choke

01:14:30.000 you with your beard. I'm going to try to choke you with my beard too. So we'll see. We'll see

01:14:34.080 you at first. Awesome, man. Thanks. Yep. Gents, I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Uh, it was

01:14:40.900 a powerful one for me. It was a lightning for me. It was good just to sit down and talk with Andy

01:14:45.340 for about an hour on some of the things that we had in common as far as struggles and what we're

01:14:49.720 dealing with. And of course, what we're doing to address those concerns and overcome those

01:14:53.660 obstacles and trials that, that not only we face, but that I'm sure you face as well. So make sure

01:14:58.400 you connect with us on Instagram. Both of us are on Instagram. Both of us are on Twitter. I'm at

01:15:03.480 Ryan Mickler on both. Let's finish the conversation there and continue to have the discussion about what

01:15:08.340 it means to be a man. And of course, uh, follow up on this conversation with Andy. If you're not

01:15:12.780 already following him, make sure you do very inspirational, again, very level-headed. Um,

01:15:16.780 and I think that's one of the things I enjoy most about him is he's not out there making a bunch of

01:15:21.360 outrageous and crazy claims. He's just a level-headed guy. And, and I think all of us strive to,

01:15:26.480 to be that way in our own lives for ourselves and for our spouses and kids and the people we have

01:15:31.440 responsibility for. So, uh, as I do every week, I want to part with a thank you. Uh, it really is

01:15:37.120 because of you that we're able to do this, that I'm able to, uh, enjoy and have created the life

01:15:42.040 that, uh, we've been able to be so fortunate to have. And it's, it's in part to you, a large part

01:15:47.640 to you, uh, because you're banding with me and you're helping spread this mission. So I would ask

01:15:52.840 that as, as I leave today, uh, that you do share this episode, let people know what we're doing here.

01:15:58.420 It's critical work poured my heart and soul into this, and I will continue to do so. And I ask that you,

01:16:02.840 uh, that you share with men who need to hear what it is we're doing here and have a desire to reclaim

01:16:08.060 and restore masculinity. Like so many of you do. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you today.

01:16:12.240 We'll be back tomorrow for our, ask me anything. Kip Sorensen, my cohost is, uh, is in Hawaii. So he

01:16:19.180 won't be on the call, but, uh, you'll hear some of my answers, whether you, whether you, uh, agree

01:16:24.140 with them or not. Uh, it'll be sure to elicit some, some thoughts and ideas. All right, go out there

01:16:30.780 guys. Take action, become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:16:35.480 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:16:40.240 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - July 02, 2019

Risk, Resilience, and Raising Kids ｜ ANDY STUMPF

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