Order of Man

00:00:00.000 As a man, you're asked to shoulder not only your own burdens, but oftentimes the weight of others,

00:00:05.660 wife, children, friends and family, neighbors. It can be a daunting task, but really worth making

00:00:11.120 yourself capable enough to do it with honor. Today, I'm joined by two of the most decorated

00:00:15.980 and recognized U.S. military veterans, Rob O'Neill and Dakota Meyer, to talk about what it takes to

00:00:22.600 master your toughest battles. We talk about harnessing the gift of our strengths, why there

00:00:28.000 can be no accountability whatsoever in your life without conflict, what it means to have true

00:00:32.880 integrity, also the dehumanization of war and what it's like to deal with that in the aftermath

00:00:38.200 and also how to build a lasting legacy. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,

00:00:44.820 embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more

00:00:50.520 time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is

00:00:57.560 your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all

00:01:03.220 is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is

00:01:08.900 Ryan Mickler. I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. What I'm doing

00:01:14.100 here is interviewing incredible men, men that have stories, men that have lessons and life experiences

00:01:19.640 that we can learn from and grow from and then implement some of their strategies for excellence

00:01:25.800 into our own lives. So I've got a very good one today. It's a little different because we actually

00:01:31.900 have two guests on the podcast at once. And I can't think of more than maybe one or two times

00:01:38.060 we've done that in the past. I've got Rob O'Neill and Dakota Meyer here today. And I'll get into that

00:01:43.560 in just a minute. Before we do just want to mention that we did that big iTunes rating and review

00:01:50.620 giveaway. And I want to thank you for all the support on that. I think we got over 800 reviews

00:01:56.620 somewhere right in there. Maybe it was 600, 600 or 800. I can't remember right off hand.

00:02:01.040 And it was very, very cool to see the support and your feedback and how much you're enjoying

00:02:06.680 the conversation. So we'll do that again in the very near future. And we've already drawn a winner and

00:02:12.180 announced that and reached out to that person. So congratulations. And also thank you so much for the

00:02:18.460 support on that. Speaking of support. I also want to mention our friends and show sponsors origin USA.

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00:03:16.740 or their boots, then, and their hunt line, when that comes available, use the code order O-R-D-E-R

00:03:23.140 at checkout again, originusa.com use the code order. All right, guys, let me introduce you to two men

00:03:30.680 that I don't think in this circle anyways, need any introduction. Rob O'Neill and Dakota Meyer.

00:03:36.320 Obviously they're two of the most recognizable military members. And they've also been very

00:03:41.920 public about their time and service and the circumstances they each found themselves in.

00:03:46.860 Rob is a retired Navy SEAL with SEAL Team 6 and was the man to kill the world's most wanted man,

00:03:53.800 Osama bin Laden. Dakota is the first living Marine to receive the Medal of Honor since the Vietnam War.

00:04:01.340 He's been on the podcast a couple of times talking about that scenario and how that all played out.

00:04:07.140 But both of them are so much more than those two experiences as they're both highly sought after

00:04:13.460 public speakers, they're advocates for veterans. And again, they're very vocal, which makes them

00:04:18.760 obviously both very polarizing about current events, both at home and abroad. And they're also

00:04:24.000 the authors of their newest book, The Way Forward, master life's toughest battles and create your

00:04:30.320 lasting legacy. Dakota, Rob, what's up guys? Good to have you on the podcast. I think actually

00:04:37.600 this might be the first time I've had two people on at least remotely. So this, this will be an

00:04:45.320 experiment. We'll see how this goes today. Well, I couldn't think of two better people to have on,

00:04:49.100 you know, I mean, if we're going to try it, this is the two guys to do it with, right?

00:04:53.380 Let's be the, uh, the dummies, man. We were pretty good at playing that part.

00:04:56.840 Yeah, for sure. Well, Dakota, I've been connected with you for man years at this point. You came on

00:05:01.660 the podcast very early on and Rob, we kind of been dancing around on the fringes a little bit. Uh,

00:05:06.300 we've got some mutual friends. So to be able to connect with you guys to American heroes.

00:05:10.100 And when I say that like legitimate American heroes, man, uh, what, what an honor to be able to join

00:05:15.720 you guys and have you here on the podcast. Appreciate you having us. Seriously. Thanks

00:05:21.100 for the time. Tell me about the, uh, tell me about the new book. Cause look, I'm going to come out of

00:05:25.940 the gates like this. You know, there's a lot of, uh, veterans and military members who, who come out

00:05:31.840 with books on leadership and the principles that you guys have learned in combat. Um, and so I'm,

00:05:37.640 I'm really anxious to know what makes this different and then how we can utilize that.

00:05:41.660 I don't know what the percentage is, but it's gotta be what 1% or so of, of Americans that

00:05:46.600 serve in the military and how that translates over into most of the men who are listening,

00:05:51.300 who are, you know, civilians and don't have any time in service.

00:05:55.420 Yeah. You know, I, um, I think this book is, is, is very different. You know, when we set out to go

00:06:01.500 around, I mean, obviously you, you publish books, so you understand how the process works of, of going

00:06:06.420 around and pitching to different publishers and figuring out, you know, it's not only them seeking if they

00:06:10.700 want your book, but you know, me and Rob were very adamant with, um, with our publisher or not

00:06:16.960 with our publisher, with our agent and with everybody helping put this together that, that

00:06:20.560 it wasn't just about who, who like, you know, offered us a deal, but it was about having the

00:06:25.440 right team on board because the message of this book and getting it out and making sure, um, you

00:06:31.560 know, our purpose of the book was way more important than, than anything else, uh, behind it,

00:06:36.940 you know, make, make, making sure that we felt like they would get the message out, making sure

00:06:41.020 that, you know, that our interest in our message and our idea would, would stay, um, would stay

00:06:47.320 solid through the whole process was something that we, we were focused on the whole time.

00:06:51.200 And that's why we chose to go with Harper Collins. And, um, you know, the big idea for us was,

00:06:58.060 is we both felt like, you know, I mean, let's be honest, there's a lot of people that came back and,

00:07:03.700 and, uh, they, they wanted like being famous and having a book out and being able to talk about

00:07:10.460 themselves was absolutely everything they wanted to do, right. Give them five seconds and they're

00:07:14.940 going to tell you every war story they can. Um, you know, that wasn't me and Rob, you know,

00:07:20.840 and, and we both get accused of it a lot, but, but honestly, that's what people ask us. That's

00:07:25.380 what people want to hear from us, you know, and this was kind of our book, you know, to where we could

00:07:30.320 talk about more than just, you know, look, being a medal of honor recipient, the battle of Ganjagal

00:07:35.640 and, and, you know, and the man that killed bin Laden, you know, we wanted to come out and provide

00:07:41.300 the stories that, Hey, look, we're just like everybody else. Like, you know, we're just two

00:07:45.540 guys that chose to, to, to try to make the world a better place. And it's, we're all the same in that

00:07:52.880 aspect. And that was kind of the, you know, the gist behind this book of, of, of making sure that we

00:07:59.420 could humanize war, right? Like war has been romanticized since nine 11. Um, it's been the

00:08:05.940 books, the way the books have been wrote, the way these stories have been told. I mean, we've got

00:08:09.980 our children literally playing video games about the shit that keeps us awake at night. That's how

00:08:16.120 much it was romanticized. And, you know, me and Rob look at each other and we're like, listen, we

00:08:21.340 didn't do anything special. Like we were just there. And, um, we are literally, uh, we rose to the

00:08:27.760 occasion and that that's, that's about the difference between us and people who don't

00:08:31.500 right. I mean, if you strip it all away, I think, I think, yes, I think you're right.

00:08:37.240 You rose to the occasion, but to say you didn't do anything special, I think does a disservice

00:08:41.720 to the work that you guys have done because anybody from the outside looking in is going

00:08:46.680 to say, no, that's, that's special. That's unique. That's different. And I'm not sure that

00:08:52.300 everybody would do what you guys have done.

00:08:54.160 But what I think we're saying, I know what I'm saying is, uh, you know, you got a dude

00:08:58.640 from Kentucky, a dude from Montana that, you know, either raising chickens or trying to

00:09:02.280 shoot free throws, whatever the hell we were doing. And then you end up in these situations

00:09:05.660 because, you know, we all come from somewhere and we're kind of proven that as long as you

00:09:09.780 make yourself available, you can pretty much do anything if you keep a positive attitude.

00:09:14.640 You know, we've all, something we all have in common, most of us is, um, we've all had our

00:09:18.440 first day somewhere and we've all been scared at some point. It's, it's nervous. And, and, uh,

00:09:22.760 you know, the more you put yourself out there, one of my favorite quotes is wherever you are,

00:09:27.420 be there. Something that I've learned is that if you, if you, if you just give it time, time

00:09:31.520 heals everything, no matter what you're doing, how uncomfortable it is, you're going to get used

00:09:34.360 to it. Uh, and you know, if you, if you, if you, if you can help to surround yourself with good

00:09:38.180 people, um, make yourself available and you can, you can get picked for anything. You can do anything

00:09:41.920 you want and, uh, just stay there in the whole, uh, you know, just don't be the person that

00:09:45.280 cowers in the corner. When something happens, you need to rise up and do it. Most of us are the same.

00:09:49.000 Even when I first went to the Navy, uh, I was from Butte, Montana. And all I knew in that bubble

00:09:54.840 was that Butte, Montana was the center of the earth for me. And that's all I'm doing.

00:09:58.080 And people from Chicago or Miami or Los Angeles are better than me because they're from somewhere

00:10:03.000 else. But then I go to bootcamp and this is Navy bootcamp. And, um, you know, I, there, there were,

00:10:07.860 there were the, the tough guys from the Bronx. There were, there were gang members from Southern

00:10:11.960 California, but it's all our first day there. And we're all pretty much the same. It's, it was kind of

00:10:16.580 a unique new experience. And I think what we're doing is, um, trying to be relatable for everything.

00:10:21.060 And most things that we do, the lessons that we learn, you can, you're going to, you're going to

00:10:25.580 find a lot of the same similarities. And there's, there's very, you know, there's not a whole lot

00:10:28.780 of them and we're all, we're all kind of cut from the same cloth. Yeah. Well, you know, what's

00:10:32.940 interesting to hear you guys talk is you're both, I don't know if you would agree with this,

00:10:36.740 but from the outside looking in and from what we see on social media, and that's a whole other

00:10:40.640 conversation is you guys tend to be too polar, pretty polarizing figures, whether by design or

00:10:47.060 not. I can't imagine that it is because Rob, I've heard you talk about, there's no left and right.

00:10:51.780 We're here as Americans, right? But yet it's so polarized. And I see what you guys post on social

00:10:57.320 media. And I can't imagine the level of hostility and vitriol, uh, that you receive by simply posting

00:11:07.640 things that I anyways interpret to be, you know, positive messages about reclaiming America and

00:11:14.080 doing what's right and standing for what's good and true, et cetera, et cetera.

00:11:17.840 No, I mean, you got to figure the social media is not real. And, uh, again, I love to throw quotes

00:11:22.760 out from people who are smarter than me. One of my favorite quotes from Babe Ruth, he said, uh,

00:11:26.640 the loudest booze come from the cheapest seats. So you're the, the person yelling you, uh, on Twitter

00:11:31.660 is not sometimes not even a real person, but when you, when you actually get out amongst it with

00:11:35.440 the real people, cause uh, some, we say in this book, it's, um, it's a big planet, but it's a

00:11:39.600 small world. Most people agree. Real America has each other's backs. Um, they don't like what's

00:11:45.140 going on and just, there, there's a loud few that control a lot of the aspects of how we can, you

00:11:50.700 know, how we, um, communicate with each other. And, and, uh, but I mean, even, even people that I know

00:11:55.840 people I've yelled at on social media, but in person we get along. It's like, yeah, it's such a point

00:12:02.520 that you're not even yelling at a person. You're yelling at what someone said you disagree with at

00:12:05.860 your screen, right? I mean, it's a, uh, yeah. I mean, and that's, that's the thing, right? Is,

00:12:11.200 is yeah. I mean, we do. I mean, I listen, I mean, I was responding to a guy that was just talking

00:12:17.840 shit to me on Rob's Twitter feed or Instagram feed this morning. And you know, the thing is,

00:12:24.160 is, and so going back to where you said, Oh, we did something special. Well, we really didn't.

00:12:27.980 Right. And I mean, if you were there, I mean, you do shit that's special all the time. You know,

00:12:33.000 everybody on the face of the planet that does stuff that's special all the time for no recognition.

00:12:39.420 Right. And, and we just, we just did our job. And I truly believe that, right. I truly believe that,

00:12:45.920 like that if you had been standing there the day that I was on, on September 8, 2009, you'd have done

00:12:53.100 the exact same thing. You want to know how, and why I believe that because it's the right thing to

00:12:58.020 do. All I did was the right thing to do in that moment. Right. It's literally that simple. I mean,

00:13:04.020 I've never been the fastest, the best shooter. I mean, you know what I mean? Like I was not any of

00:13:08.440 that. I just, I loved people. I believed in the idea of, of, of, of humans. And I just did what I felt

00:13:21.100 was right at that moment. And I wasn't going to let anything else, um, dictate what I did. And so,

00:13:28.740 you know, for all, all the people out there, yeah, I mean, there's tons and tons of haters.

00:13:33.600 Um, you know, I, and we are polarizing, but are we polarizing because, you know, because like,

00:13:43.680 like it's, it's, why are we polarizing? We're polarizing because we don't care to tell you

00:13:48.000 how we feel. We don't care to state what 90% of the people in the room are thinking me and Rob,

00:13:54.240 just go ahead and say it out loud. You know why? And the difference in us and everybody else is,

00:13:59.040 is we live life on our own terms. Nobody tells me what to do. I don't owe anybody.

00:14:05.400 I know that at the end of the day, that am I wrong a lot? 100%. But guess what? I'm okay with saying

00:14:12.240 that. Like, Hey, you know what? I was wrong. I apologize. What's next. Right. And, and there's

00:14:18.440 all these people that just, you know, that is threatening to them. That's threatening to them.

00:14:24.480 When, when there's people out there who can not only they, they, they think about it, they verbalize

00:14:30.260 it. And then on the backside of it, they live it. They live it. Right. And, and that's the thing is,

00:14:36.580 is you, you can call me a lot of things. I mean, I was walking out, I dropped, dropped Rob off at a

00:14:40.340 podcast. Um, or actually I was leaving a podcast the other day and there was a guy who literally

00:14:45.940 was sitting in the corner up there. And as I walk out, he just comes up to me. I never seen him in

00:14:49.400 my life. And he goes, man, um, met you one time and, and you're, I always hated you because you're

00:14:57.940 an asshole. He goes, but man, you changed my life. And I just wanted to shake your hand and tell you

00:15:03.360 that, you know, that, that you changed my life. And so it's like, you know, do you not like what I hear?

00:15:08.700 What I say is it, is it cause you don't like it or is it, is it because it's wrong? There's a big

00:15:12.600 difference. Well, I, I think what it actually is, is that we interpret just generally speaking,

00:15:20.060 somebody who speaks their mind, like both of you gentlemen do as, as being an asshole,

00:15:25.540 because we're not familiar with it because nobody speaks their mind. They're tiptoeing on eggshells.

00:15:31.280 And, and, and it's very rare. I think, I don't know, maybe that's not fair in certain circles.

00:15:37.420 I'll say at least on social to find somebody who's willing to stand by their convictions,

00:15:42.060 say what they mean. And then when somebody says it, everybody freaks out because they're not used

00:15:47.200 to experiencing somebody who has the balls to say what's on their mind. Yeah. Yeah. And you know,

00:15:53.080 we we've got this idea. I see this in the fire service a lot, this idea of brotherhood or whatever

00:15:59.360 you want to call it, uh, has changed from, I'm going to tell you what you need to hear. I'm going to

00:16:05.700 hold you accountable and I'm going to push you to be your best. It's changed from that to, I want you

00:16:10.520 to like me. Hmm. You know, I want you to like me. I don't want to hurt your feelings. I want, I want,

00:16:16.340 you know, I just want you to like me and you know, that's how it is. And then like, and that's the

00:16:21.160 exact opposite of what brotherhood is. Brotherhood is me holding you accountable to the standard that

00:16:26.940 I know that you're capable of achieving that even when you don't feel like it, right. It's that,

00:16:32.200 it's literally that iron sharpens iron. And that's what, you know, I own, I talk to people

00:16:37.300 the way I want to be talked to. If I'm, if I'm wrong, like you better call me out. Like you

00:16:42.160 better call me out in front of everyone. And you better like, don't ever let me be wrong

00:16:48.000 and let me continue to be wrong after you've recognized that, because then why are you my

00:16:53.560 friend? Yeah. Well, a lot of people will bitch and moan about what you said that's right or wrong,

00:16:58.460 but they won't do it to your face. You know, they'll go around and they'll talk about you to

00:17:02.980 other people. And they're kind of dancing on these fringes when yeah, men come to each other and talk

00:17:08.840 to each other face to face price precisely because we care. If we didn't care, then we'd be oblivious

00:17:17.020 or indifferent to the truth, or at least exposing some, some things that maybe you've said that

00:17:22.620 I don't necessarily agree with, for example. Yeah. I mean, where did, why did we, why did we

00:17:27.500 as men, I mean, I mean, literally we were put on earth to provide, protect.

00:17:33.160 Why have we gotten so far away from, why are we so scared of conflict?

00:17:38.640 I mean, isn't like, like there is no accountability without conflict.

00:17:43.020 There's none. Like I, you know, I don't care what anyone says.

00:17:46.340 Like if you're not comfortable with conflict, well, you're in the wrong game, right? I mean, look,

00:17:53.020 you better get out of the jungle. Cause you're just a little house cat.

00:17:57.040 Rob, what do you think about that when it comes to accountability with conflict and why we,

00:18:02.460 I think this is generally societally true. Why are we so afraid of this conflict?

00:18:08.760 People don't really like the, the hard conversation. And me as a leader, you know, I was,

00:18:13.240 I was a team leader at seal team six and that's having the hard conversation with like tier one

00:18:17.980 assets. It's a difficult thing to do because there's going to be a conflict there. And you

00:18:21.880 know, you, I don't think you ever need to resort to getting physical with each other as far as

00:18:25.600 teammates and all that stuff. But you know, there's different ways. Like I had a boss that

00:18:29.300 instead of yelling at me, cause I get defensive, he would say, instead of coming right at me,

00:18:33.740 he would say, man, you're just better than that. And like, leave. It's like, oh shit.

00:18:36.860 Oh yeah. Do that again.

00:18:38.900 That's like when your parents say they're disappointed in you and then just walk away.

00:18:42.620 And leave. Um, but right now, um, you it's, you can't even, people don't even want to have a

00:18:49.160 disagreement of ideas or say, I think you're wrong about this. They just start name calling

00:18:54.080 and, uh, it just becomes such a society of, you know, if I, if, if I knock someone out,

00:18:58.500 I'm getting sued. Um, cause they just know there's weenie little ways around. I mean,

00:19:02.320 a real man wouldn't do that. Wouldn't, wouldn't sue someone else for knocking them out and just

00:19:05.560 take his, take his lumps or whatever. But, um, yeah, conflict's kind of gone away.

00:19:09.320 I ever, have you seen those pictures online where like two dudes are arguing and all they do is

00:19:12.920 they don't yell, but they just keep flipping each other off. Like it's like a silent film fight for

00:19:17.740 beta males. Have you seen, there's the one of the, the video of the dogs they're behind a gate and

00:19:23.720 they're yelling at each other and then they open the gate and they both go run off. That's what it

00:19:27.440 reminds me of. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I don't know. I mean, there's, there's nothing,

00:19:30.420 it's not even, I mean, conflict doesn't need to be physical. Like I said, conflict is even

00:19:34.040 just disagreeing saying, no, I disagree with this and here's why. And, uh, and like there's,

00:19:38.820 there's, we've lost, we've lost a lot of the art to debate because if you say, Hey, here's a problem

00:19:43.580 and here's, you can't even, you can't even tell the truth because you're labeled an ism or, uh,

00:19:48.500 you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you don't like this race or you're a transphobe or you're

00:19:52.360 Islamophobe or you're whatever. They just start calling your names. It's like, and the problem with

00:19:56.780 that, it's, it's like the whole, um, the boy who cried wolf. Like if, if, if, if everything's

00:20:01.960 racist, nothing's racist. We used to say in the, in the military, because everyone's so soft now

00:20:06.580 and everyone needs to be inclusive that, uh, everyone, you guys probably noticed this,

00:20:10.480 everything was special operations, something. So these are special operations janitors. This is

00:20:15.560 special operations administration. It's like, if everything's special, nothing is, nothing is

00:20:20.840 they're just bland, making everything so fucking bland. And that's, and that's just a, it's a

00:20:26.860 result of, um, you know, whatever there's, there's great people everywhere. Again, I don't want to

00:20:30.360 lump people in because most of the bullshit we hear is on social media and TV. Like most people are good,

00:20:35.560 but I mean, we keep dumbing it down. You're going to, you're going to get what you're having in China

00:20:39.060 and Russia right now when they're over there pumping oil. And all we want to do is say the number one

00:20:43.220 thing for our national defense is to fight climate change and make our ships in the Navy green. It's

00:20:48.060 ridiculous. Right. Well, I think this is the value of the conversations that we're having here. I know

00:20:53.140 I've even just in the past week personally had interactions that were, uh, less than favorable,

00:20:59.360 we'll say on social media. And then you get on the horn with these guys and the tone is completely

00:21:03.860 different. And so I think it's important that, yeah, I love social media. You said it's not real.

00:21:08.840 I contend with that a little bit. I get what you're saying. It's virtual. There's a lot of ways to hide

00:21:13.160 behind it, but it's also created opportunities like this, where we can have real meaningful

00:21:17.040 conversations. Oh yeah. There's good to it. It just, you know, the scumbags have come out like

00:21:20.920 they always do. Yeah. Well, and I think it's up to us individually to curate it, uh, and then to

00:21:26.920 move it into, you know, real life where you're having real conversations or you're doing this or

00:21:32.800 even getting together face to face. Well, I'd say it's a Trojan horse, um, for the cowards. So that's,

00:21:39.780 that's the problem with social media is it's, it's a Trojan horse for the cowards. And, uh,

00:21:44.040 it allows them to, um, to lie to themselves and to lie to others, to pretend like that they,

00:21:50.920 you know, that they are, uh, something that they're not right. And that's, that's the problem

00:21:56.100 with it. And it gives them a platform to say things that they would never say. And I'm a true believer,

00:22:00.460 like, do not let anything come out of your mouth that you wouldn't say if the person was standing

00:22:05.260 right there in front of you. Right. And, and these people, it allows them to sit in their mom's

00:22:10.100 basement and, uh, you know, talk shit when, when, and that's, and that's where, that's where men have

00:22:16.280 gotten weak. Right. And look, and I agree with Rob, like I, I, I don't care anything about violence

00:22:22.320 anymore. Right. Like I don't care anything about, I hope, you know, I hear these guys like, oh, I train

00:22:27.040 at my house and I just, I just pray somebody breaks in my house. And I'm like, you know, I don't,

00:22:32.920 you know, I, do I, I carry concealed and I tell you, I, my prayers to God are that I don't ever

00:22:39.700 have to pull a weapon at somebody again. Right. I don't ever, that I don't have to hurt somebody

00:22:44.600 that I don't have to, because no matter what, like, and that's, and that's, you know, this is a

00:22:48.520 good turn into the book of, you know, that's kind of what me and Rob were bringing together was is,

00:22:53.840 is yeah, I might be justified to take out this, this evil person, but I heard a lot of people around

00:23:01.300 them. I heard that person's mom and dad. I heard that person's kid, that child, whatever, that,

00:23:08.180 whatever people that, that, that loved him. Yeah. I might, I might take out somebody bad, but,

00:23:13.640 but I'm going to hurt a lot of people along the way doing it. Right. And, and, and it's,

00:23:18.780 these things aren't black and white. It's not like the movies. It's not like the books that were wrote

00:23:23.740 that, that, you know, oh, we just killed all these bad guys. Yeah. We killed a lot of bad guys,

00:23:28.120 but guess what we did? We, we hurt a lot of families and, and to humanize these things

00:23:35.060 is just an aspect that we tried to do with the book. The way forward is, is humanizing these

00:23:41.660 events that, you know, not only did we talk about growing up and in our, in our family who made huge

00:23:47.660 influences on us, but, you know, also, you know, taking the lives of, of, of the enemy who was going

00:23:52.660 to take hers at the same thing, but then realizing that, that gosh, you know, this, this person had a,

00:24:00.340 this person has children standing right here. You know, this person has a mom and dad that's going

00:24:04.980 to miss them no matter what. And understanding that at the end of the day, that we're all way more

00:24:11.100 alike than we're not. Oh yeah. Yeah. How about like, I, even with, um, I'm not justifying a lot of

00:24:17.620 actions, but the, the bad guys never think they're the bad guys. They believe in their,

00:24:21.540 what they're doing as much as we believe in what we're doing. And that's, and that's just the

00:24:24.980 real thing, the human element of what's actually going on. And then you can tell too, again,

00:24:29.180 getting back to social media and it's, it's become so glorified. Like Dakota was saying about war,

00:24:33.460 how it's like, whenever I see, uh, like those, you know, I always say on Instagram, I didn't know

00:24:38.720 all my friends were millionaires and private jets and were here until I got on Instagram, but like,

00:24:43.640 you'll see those dudes that sell those shirts and say, I like to kick down doors and shoot

00:24:47.660 fuckers in the face. Uh, my response is no, you don't know. Cause you don't know.

00:24:53.540 How about, how about the one I saw great, I got, I saw a great meme. This dude is literally in

00:24:58.980 Disneyland. He's got a Mickey mouse hat on. And it says, if you, if you see me run and leave,

00:25:04.500 fall or get out of the way. And I'm thinking, what do you think is going to happen today in the magic

00:25:08.580 kingdom, homie? I think that's reserved that, that kind of, that kind of thought process is

00:25:17.900 reserved for people who have never had to actually be in that situation. Like you guys, uh, you know,

00:25:25.920 I am really curious about the, what you're talking about Dakota, when you talk about humanizing these

00:25:32.200 individuals that let's just put it bluntly that you guys have killed. And I would say righteously,

00:25:37.360 um, I think the military probably, and even ourselves as a defense mechanism, probably try

00:25:43.880 to dehumanize our enemies so that we can deal with that. I don't want to put words in your mouth.

00:25:49.040 I'm trying to understand this. So you have, but does humanizing it, does humanizing it though,

00:25:54.620 help you heal or, or like, how do you strike that balance between humanization and dehumanization

00:25:59.640 between your enemies? I don't, I don't think it's up to you to humanize them or not. I think it's the

00:26:03.540 further you get from war and the realization that, uh, combat's not normal. It seemed normal at the

00:26:08.680 time because everyone I know is doing it. But once you get, you know, you get to, you know,

00:26:12.640 wake up at three 30 in the morning and you're thinking about like, there's one guy I think

00:26:15.900 about every single day and it's in the book, the way forward, how, um, he wasn't even the first dude

00:26:20.160 I killed in the house, but I killed him in his bedroom in front of his family. And I've thought

00:26:25.660 about, you know, the only reason I killed him, he did go for a gun. I was well within my rules of

00:26:29.480 engagement, but the only reason that he and I had a problem is because we were born in different parts of

00:26:33.060 the world. And I wonder like, if we met somewhere else, would we have had a cup of coffee and a laugh?

00:26:38.620 Yeah. I mean, and that's, and that's, you know, it's the same thing I've talked about many times

00:26:42.220 is about this guy killed with the rock. Right. And just, just the, like, I, you know, look everywhere

00:26:48.840 from seeing people die in combat to seeing people die, you know, over here in America, right. As a

00:26:55.600 firefighter, I just, I see these, there's this moment that people have this look in their face when,

00:27:01.440 if they were conscious that they, they, you just know that they're just, they, they, they know

00:27:06.380 they're going to die. Right. And, and I, um, I remember that moment hitting with that guy and

00:27:12.700 just thinking to myself, I don't even know this guy. Like, I don't, I don't even know it. Um,

00:27:20.040 In the moment you were thinking that.

00:27:21.460 Yeah. So, I mean, I, I doubt I thought about it in the moment, but like, I see this guy every day.

00:27:26.300 He's the only guy that I, that I think about, like out of everything that happened, like he's

00:27:30.860 literally the only guy I ever think about the only guy that ever, that ever comes to mind of, of,

00:27:35.740 of war. Right. Unless I'm thinking, unless I'm consciously trying to think about it.

00:27:40.240 But I just, I remember, I do think that there was a pause there to where I'm just like,

00:27:44.280 I don't even, I don't even know this guy, you know, and, and there's nothing fun about it.

00:27:52.160 When you hear people talk about that, you know, I like shooting guys. No, they don't.

00:27:58.620 You've never done it. No, they don't. No, they don't. There's no, there's no one on the face of

00:28:04.240 the planet that wakes up and, and looks forward to, to killing other people unless they're a psycho,

00:28:13.660 right. But, but it's just like, you know, so you asked about like humanizing. So I call it

00:28:21.340 humanizing versus objectifying, right? Like, you know, look, when I'm on a fire truck or I'm going

00:28:26.500 out and I'm running a call. Yeah. I mean, I have to objectify that person. Cause if I start thinking

00:28:31.180 about that, that they're a human being and, and I look over and I see their wife sitting there as I'm

00:28:36.100 doing CPR on them, I couldn't, I can't take it. Right. I mean, I, I just, it just, it's overwhelming the

00:28:42.000 emotions and I have to look at this as a systematic approach. And so I think the same thing is there in

00:28:46.740 the military, but I think that at the end of the day, you can't help, but at some point that this

00:28:52.960 is going to be humanized. Right. And I think this is where everybody that, and it helps you process it

00:28:57.800 and you have to be able to make sense with it. And I look at that guy and I always wonder, you know,

00:29:03.200 that guy changed my life more than any, any single individual on the face of the planet.

00:29:07.300 And, and he made me a better person. You know, he gave me the power to have love and empathy

00:29:14.120 and understand that, that we're all a lot closer than we think, right. To be able to look at somebody

00:29:20.500 and, and, and understand what, what, you know, um, what really matters between people and, and, and to

00:29:29.580 be able to empathize and to be able to understand that you should choose love over hate every single

00:29:34.920 time because hate will only go so far. So one of the things that a lot of people ask me about the

00:29:41.160 podcast is sometimes I have gentlemen like yourself or other people. And, and they've said to me, you

00:29:46.000 know, I have a hard time relating with these guys. Um, one of the things that you guys talk about in

00:29:50.260 the book is overcoming battles. And so the odds that somebody is going to be in the situation that both

00:29:56.200 of you were presented with is very unlikely. So what are some of the battles that the readers of this

00:30:03.540 book or just listeners might be overcoming and how do you work them through those, those struggles?

00:30:08.800 I think it kind of resorts back to what I was saying about thinking because someone somewhere else,

00:30:13.120 they're better than you. And a lot of people just, they think it's like the whole break glass in case

00:30:17.520 of war. And, you know, even though if I have a few cocktails, I will say I came out of the skylight

00:30:21.760 to kill bin Laden, obviously, um, I'm kidding, but, uh, you know, just normal people doing normal

00:30:25.960 stuff, but, um, we get asked a lot of questions and one of the, here's something that we all can relate

00:30:31.700 to. And especially for younger men, uh, someone says, if you can go back to 15 year old Rob O'Neill

00:30:36.940 and give him any advice, what would it be? My first piece of advice would be ask her out.

00:30:42.880 Whoever she is, it scares the shit out of you. Ask her out. Like I said, we're all afraid. No,

00:30:47.640 she's too pretty bullshit. Ask her out. That's what we can relate to. That's the, that's the moment

00:30:51.900 of, um, you know, when, when, when do I put on my big boy pants and just go do it? And it's like,

00:30:56.480 if you, if you weigh the risks, what if she says, no, well, you're not going out with her anyway.

00:31:00.380 What if she says yes? You know? And that's, that's the sort of thing where, um, even like

00:31:05.440 with, with women, the most beautiful women I know are very self-conscious and I don't know

00:31:09.540 why that is. So everyone has their own demons inside that they think are bigger than them,

00:31:13.540 but they can get past them. And it's just a little serious, that little bit of confidence

00:31:16.820 that, uh, I got this. Um, and that's kind of what it was. It's like, I went up, um, not,

00:31:22.200 you know, not to talk about bin Laden, but I went up the last set of stairs because it wasn't

00:31:25.500 because let's be brave and defend the world. It was, I'm going to blow up. I'm just tired of thinking

00:31:29.600 about it. Let's get this over with, but then something great happens. So the advising that

00:31:33.520 you thought you were going to die is what you're saying. Yeah. But it wasn't like, let's go get

00:31:36.800 them and save the world. It was like, okay, let's just do it. Let's just do it. There's two of us

00:31:39.960 left. Let's just do it. Tired of it. Rob, I've got a question. Um, I, you know, I've seen your posts

00:31:45.180 and, and, and I've been following you for some time. And in the past, uh, I've been not, not critical

00:31:51.680 necessarily, but just skeptical because sometimes it seems like you bring up bin Laden quite often. And

00:31:57.600 I'm like, man, does this guy take like pride in that or what? Like, why do you share that the

00:32:02.280 way that you do? I'm very curious about that. Cause I get it. I get asked by every single

00:32:05.900 person I meet face to face or online. If I respond, take a DM, every single person I meet

00:32:10.160 every single day of my life, ask me about bin Laden. I can't get away from it. And, uh, sometimes now I,

00:32:16.300 uh, I, I think that my team, uh, and you'll notice in Dakota too, we're really good because of our

00:32:22.500 senses of humor. Um, cause if you can keep morale up, I don't give a shit. If you're running a, uh,

00:32:27.980 an HVAC company or you're a plumber or you're a carpenter, if, if your people come into work or

00:32:32.400 happy, they're going to work harder. So, you know, and you know, as a vet that, uh, you know, um, um,

00:32:38.320 the sense of humor is very dark, but that's where that's what the, so, um, if I take enough shit

00:32:44.140 from people, I'll just shove it right in their face. And that's purely for my enjoyment. I'm not trying

00:32:48.720 to get any lessons out of that. The lessons learned with like the bin Laden raid were how

00:32:53.220 good our Intel people are when they need to be. Um, I, I always say too, I was smart enough to

00:32:58.480 carry a sledgehammer and a gun and have a woman say he's that way. It's not like I did anything

00:33:02.800 to pilots who flew us in are amazing, but you know, if, if you follow me on social media, chances are

00:33:07.900 I'm not being very serious. Yeah. I liked that. And I think it's a great way to navigate some of

00:33:12.740 these challenging issues. I think, uh, a lot of the times just cause I've been around it to some degree,

00:33:17.440 uh, I, I get the humor. I think sometimes people have a really hard time understanding

00:33:23.500 the dark humor that a lot of veterans have, uh, because they've just never been exposed to it.

00:33:29.300 And they think it's bad or evil or disgust or whatever. And it's like, well, they're joking.

00:33:32.940 It's camaraderie. That's another example of, Oh, if they're offended by something I said,

00:33:38.060 wow, that sure is their problem. Isn't it? Well, I think people could stand to be offended a

00:33:43.100 little bit more and then just have to sit in it and deal with it. Well, that's where,

00:33:46.600 that's where a lot of really good humor comes from is being offended and then showing some irony in

00:33:50.500 something you're saying. And I mean, if you see some of the posts of code and I have, it's some

00:33:54.100 of the most self-deprecating humor, but it's funny. I mean, get over yourself, get over it.

00:33:58.980 I mean, you know, and, and, and what people don't see are, and let's, and let's be honest. I mean,

00:34:04.680 just, just like, let's say, let's say you're a post, right? Right. I mean, you're, you're always out

00:34:10.180 there, you know, you post because you know what people want to hear. Yeah. Right. Like you post because like

00:34:15.600 your platform, like, again, like, I do, are you going to post it? Oh, you know, I'm going out

00:34:21.280 today to go grocery shopping. No, because nobody, right. So again, when, when, when all this is

00:34:27.360 looked at, and again, this is where, this is where I, again, social media is 100% fake because at the

00:34:34.960 end of the day, like, do you think Rob sits around with his, his beautiful wife, who's a badass and all

00:34:41.280 he talks about, Rob was with me all week. And you think all we talked about was, you know,

00:34:45.500 you know, me getting a medal of honor and him going to kill more stories. Sure. You know what

00:34:49.880 we talked about? You know, we talked about, we talked about, we talked about how we can't wait

00:34:55.240 for the day that, that we don't have to, he doesn't have to mention bin Laden and I can literally delete

00:35:00.900 all my social media and I can go and be somewhere where no one even knows who Dakota Meyer is.

00:35:05.900 Like that is our goal. That's our dream is so that we don't, I mean, do you think we want to live,

00:35:12.300 live the, you know, you know, what Rob doesn't, and I, and I'll say this and what he doesn't say

00:35:18.280 is, is yeah, everybody wants to hear about, oh, you know, the time he killed bin Laden, how cool it

00:35:23.320 was. Right. But what they don't understand is, is Rob shot bin Laden, threw his gun down and go

00:35:29.440 straight over it and grabs bin Laden's kids. That's what Rob remembers. You know what I mean?

00:35:36.460 And like, that's the aspect that like people were not reality TV shows. We're not reality TV shows.

00:35:44.700 Like they bring us up and people want this entertainment. Like they use us as, like they

00:35:49.280 want to hear our stories as entertainment, which is, which is, oh, this is great. Right. As long as we

00:35:53.940 can inspire and, and help people, you know, get through whatever they're going through.

00:35:57.720 But on the backside of it, when people sit back and they're like, oh, all you talk about is this.

00:36:01.980 Like I, I did that post about people wearing a body armor. Right. And I remember that the tactical

00:36:08.060 stuff, the internet shook. Oh, they did. They didn't like that at all. Yeah, man. And, and it was like,

00:36:15.440 you know, they took it out of context. It was all true and it hurt their feelings. Um, but you know,

00:36:24.880 they, they just, they all group up and attack because they don't want to look in the mirror.

00:36:28.900 Right. And, and, and so, you know, it's just all these things. Like I understand it, but,

00:36:32.940 but perception is not reality.

00:36:34.900 Dude, prime example right there. That's a great segue is I, uh, I made a story about what you said

00:36:40.100 and I'm like, Hey, you know, don't don't whatever. Don't say this, blah, blah, blah.

00:36:42.680 And it was on my story. So someone went to, um, one of my posts and said, you just did a story

00:36:48.260 about Dakota. Why can't you put it on your post and defend yourself like a man in the comments? I'm

00:36:52.880 like, what? Defend yourself like a man on Twitter? In the comments. Jesus. But I mean, I get it too.

00:37:01.440 It's like, if, look, if you're, if you're yelling that loud about wearing your body armor at the range

00:37:06.540 and playing, uh, uh, whatever the airsoft, it's like, you kind of know what you're doing. Hey,

00:37:11.240 Hey, I'm all about it. Go train and shit, but let's not, come on.

00:37:14.340 I always, I always laughed about it. Cause they were like, Oh, you know,

00:37:18.320 look at our founding fathers. And I'm like, yeah. And, uh, ever since, uh, ever since we

00:37:23.620 became a country, there's been a military that's, that's protected.

00:37:27.360 Look at our founding fathers.

00:37:28.660 You know what I'm saying?

00:37:30.320 Yeah.

00:37:30.520 They went through the Valley for seven winters, you know, fighting the, uh, the redcoats.

00:37:35.540 You guys can't get up I-95 in a snowstorm, but I'm sure George Washington,

00:37:39.820 John Adams are proud of shit.

00:37:41.240 All right. You guys just want to hit pause on the conversation. Then we'll get right back to it.

00:37:48.480 Our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council opens again in less than two weeks now.

00:37:53.400 So if you've been sitting on the fence about joining, uh, the window is going to open up

00:37:58.240 very, very soon. It's also going to close very quickly. So if you've, if you're on the fence,

00:38:03.620 now's the time to consider joining us. And if you don't already know the over 1,100 men inside the

00:38:09.200 iron council are seeing huge results in their lives, they're starting businesses, losing weight,

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00:38:20.660 have before. But that's what happens when you band with other like-minded men who stand squarely in

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00:38:35.120 make sure you're signed up at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com

00:38:41.780 slash iron council. You can do that right after the conversation for now, I'll get back to it with Rob

00:38:47.380 and Dakota. Here's an interesting thought. Cause some of what you said a minute ago, Dakota about,

00:38:53.720 uh, you know, I, I pray for the day or wait for the day where, you know, I can just leave people

00:38:58.020 leave me alone and I can go do what I want to do. I feel that too. And I also feel a need probably

00:39:03.220 like you guys do to share my perspectives and share my thoughts and to help influence people

00:39:08.700 positively. So how do you strike that dichotomy between wanting to inspire and serve and also just

00:39:15.400 wanting to be left the hell alone? Well, I mean, the reality is this is look, neither one of us,

00:39:19.660 none of the three of us who are sitting on this podcast right now are ever going to do that because

00:39:25.600 of that aspect of service that we still have in us. Right. So, I mean, at the end of the day,

00:39:30.600 we could all go and probably quit today and find a job and not be known, but we understand the fact

00:39:38.520 of service and still continuing to serve and make a difference. And, and look, yeah, as much as that's

00:39:43.360 what we dream of, I think that all three of us who are sitting here right now will continue to do

00:39:47.540 whatever it takes to contribute to making the world a better place. And that's just the hard

00:39:52.180 reality of it. It's, you know, and that's just because that's what we do. Right. Yeah. And I, one

00:39:58.560 more thing too, just about how the internet is fake. I still go to a lot of ranges and the range

00:40:04.440 dudes are awesome. Guys that know how to use guns are great too. And it's never that argument ever at

00:40:09.020 the range because it's all about, Hey, I got this tape here. Let's try that. What do you know about

00:40:12.240 this? And obviously take the cool guy picture with the guns and all that shit. The mad range guys are

00:40:17.120 never at the range, like trying to get better. They're just the internet guys that get pissed

00:40:20.540 off. It's just the real world. The whole point to going back to it of this book, the way forward

00:40:25.560 is, I mean, we're all, we're all pretty much the same. Like we all came from somewhere. That's it.

00:40:30.600 So not that hard. Yeah. I don't, I don't find, well, in fact, I haven't found anybody who's openly

00:40:36.640 criticized privately. Sure. Because they care about me, but openly criticized me or, or picked apart

00:40:46.020 what I'm doing, who's actually succeeding more than I am in that particular subject.

00:40:50.280 You'll never find that. Hey, you know why? People, people who are more successful than

00:40:54.480 you, they're not paying attention to you. They don't care. Well, and if they are, they want to

00:40:58.380 help actually. So like, I, like I know people, Andy for still is somebody who comes to mind for me.

00:41:04.180 And I know you guys know Andy, he's way more successful than I am. And yet I don't, I mean,

00:41:10.600 I wouldn't say he's paying attention necessarily, but he's going to message me and say, Hey bro,

00:41:15.160 here's where you're wrong on that thing. But he's not going to blast me publicly. He's going to say,

00:41:19.460 Hey, here's why, here's what you're doing. Here's what I think. And so that's somebody who

00:41:23.980 is leading from the top down. Yeah. And, and then you just, to be fair, you know,

00:41:30.040 Andy's successful, uh, more successful than a lot of people. Yeah, for sure. Right. For sure.

00:41:35.680 Like you just lump me into the category that he's more successful than when I joke about my friends

00:41:40.400 on their private jet. He's not joking. Like that's legit. That's right. Yeah. That's not one

00:41:45.280 of those Instagram fake studios of the jet. He's not the guy telling, telling the girl he met on

00:41:50.640 Tinder. Like, Hey, you know, I forgot my credit card from a little light on this dinner.

00:41:54.700 Right. Right. Uh, one of the other things you guys talk about as a theme in the book is lasting legacy.

00:42:01.320 So I'm very curious to hear if you had to define what your personal legacy would be or want it to

00:42:07.860 be Dakota, why don't you lead off? What, what would you want that to be? Uh, you know, I just,

00:42:13.540 when I die, I just want people to, um, to just, well, I mean, first off I want, I want to have left

00:42:22.280 my daughter's understanding what a man looks like, you know, what, how a man acts, how a man treats women,

00:42:28.040 how, how a man, um, how a man holds himself and carries himself every single day. Right. So

00:42:34.480 that that's number one, um, outside that, you know, then it goes to my circle, right. My circle

00:42:39.700 of friends, you know, I want to make sure that every single day that, you know, and, and backside

00:42:44.320 of it on my kids, you know, I make sure that they understand what a man looks like and that they know

00:42:48.980 that they're loved. Right. Uh, and that they know that they're enough and that they matter. And then I

00:42:52.920 want my friends to be the same way. I want my circle of friends to understand that, that, you

00:42:58.000 know, that they matter, that, that, that I love them and that, that, you know, I appreciated them

00:43:04.120 for everything that they've done for me and to help me get to where I'm at. And then, you know,

00:43:08.860 to the world, like, I just want people to know that look right or wrong, whether you like me or I

00:43:13.240 didn't, um, there's no question what my intent was, right. Whether, whether I went about it the right

00:43:18.560 way, whether, you know, look, there's no chance that anybody will ever look at and refer the name

00:43:25.320 Dakota Meyer, uh, in the same sentence as, uh, his delivery was right on, right. It's not going to

00:43:32.100 happen. Um, but, but I don't think that they can question my intent and what the intent was behind

00:43:37.640 it. And the intent is to make the world a better place. And you do that by caring about each other.

00:43:42.720 And you do that by getting up every day and leaving it all on the table. And that's,

00:43:47.120 that's what I hope to leave as a legacy that, you know, at the end of the day,

00:43:50.620 you can critique, whatever, say, whatever, question, whatever, but you can't question

00:43:55.780 what my intent was. And that's to, to, to make the world a better place.

00:44:00.220 I'm really glad that you brought up the, the intent and the delivery, because that that's

00:44:05.300 one of the things I personally struggle with is I've got these ideas and these concepts and they're

00:44:10.120 not always popular and I share them, but I kind of just word vomit at times. And I end up leaving a

00:44:15.640 wake of collateral damage in my path because I don't think about, you know, how that might come

00:44:20.600 across or how somebody might receive it. So trying to find that balance or, or the, or the harmony

00:44:27.560 between my intention and the way I deliver it has constantly proved to be a struggle for me.

00:44:35.140 Yeah. And, you know, and the, and the thing is, and it's such a fine line because

00:44:39.660 if you think about how you deliver it, because you're worried about what everyone else is going

00:44:44.720 to say, then you're not going to be able to get your message across as, you know, like it almost

00:44:51.100 takes away like your creativeness to your message. Right. And so it's just a, it's such a fine line.

00:44:57.400 And how cool would it be if we lived in a world to where people said, instead of saying, Hey,

00:45:02.920 you know, you're messed up because you said this, if they said, Hey, when you said this,

00:45:07.880 this is how it made, it came off to me. And you'd be like, Oh, well now I need to do is tweak it about

00:45:13.700 5% right here to where that makes sense. I can see that to where maybe I add a couple of words in

00:45:20.800 there or take one out and get it there. Right. But instead it's like, Nope, right off the bat,

00:45:26.100 if it doesn't strike me the right way, you're done.

00:45:28.380 Right. Yeah. There's a lot of grace that needs to be afforded on everybody's end. I'm saying the

00:45:34.600 people who are listening, I'm saying you guys, and I'm sure as heck saying me, the ability to

00:45:39.520 afford more grace and nuance. And again, that goes back to the social media thing. There's not a lot

00:45:43.860 of nuance in, you know, the 40 characters you post on Twitter, but if you stop and think about it,

00:45:49.400 or you're fortunate enough to be able to have conversations like this, you start to realize

00:45:53.820 there's a lot more weight behind the words that are being used. Rob, how about you on the, uh,

00:46:00.040 the legacy question? I'm with, I'm with Dakota on the kids. I actually got to hang out with Dakota's

00:46:04.480 kids yesterday and they were absolutely hilarious. That's, I mean, just, I mean, you know, very

00:46:09.360 respectful of the point, but they're still young girls and just funny watching them run around that

00:46:12.960 house. I have daughters myself. And, uh, I mean, as far as a legacy, all I really care about is like

00:46:17.820 Dakota said, they, they, they know how to be adults, how to treat each other. Um, uh, the social media

00:46:22.780 stuff's not real. They're pretty good about that. I could use a little less tick tock for them,

00:46:26.120 but you know, I want to make sure they're taking care of whatever I, whatever I'm able to make.

00:46:29.420 I want to make sure that they have an opportunity to be taken care of. I don't want to give them

00:46:32.260 handouts or anything like that. Uh, and I would say, I want, I want, um, my wife, Jessica, Jessica

00:46:37.740 is actually Dakota's best friend. He knows this. I would say I want Jessica to be taken care of,

00:46:41.560 but the second I die, she's jumping in that coffin with me. So she's going down with me,

00:46:45.520 but she and her family. And I liked it. She's got a great family, a small family. And I just,

00:46:50.640 I want to make sure anything that I can provide, be it, uh, um, everything from,

00:46:54.840 from advice or monetarily order real estate that they can, they have something I offer them. And,

00:46:59.300 and that's it. I, you know, as far as the other shit, I don't, whatever. I don't, I don't need

00:47:02.520 people to think of me one way or the other. Just think that, uh, just know that, uh, if, uh, when I

00:47:08.500 do go to heaven, I mean, I'm going to be up there drinking with Jesus. I'm either going to haunt you

00:47:12.160 or I'm going to make you laugh. It's up to you. We're doing one. I'll, I'll take a laugh.

00:47:16.540 Let's be honest about this. We all know this. No, I, I can appreciate, I've, I've thought about

00:47:22.920 it in the past. If, uh, it's, it's morbid obviously, but I think it's important to consider,

00:47:27.120 you know, when I die, there's probably like 10 people who really be impacted for any significant

00:47:33.120 amount of time. There might be thousands who are like, Oh shit, Ryan died. Okay. And then they're

00:47:37.200 onto whatever else they're doing. So there's only 10 that matter. How messed up is that? And like,

00:47:41.580 like everyone we've talked about, everyone's important to someone, even our enemies. I know damn well,

00:47:46.180 uh, say I dropped it right now on Twitter. Oh, anti-masker O'Neill's dead. Ha ha ha. It's

00:47:51.880 like, what the fuck was that? Or this podcast would blow up every, Oh, look, Rob died on Ryan's

00:47:56.540 podcast. Look at this. And it would go viral. Right. If I die on your podcast, you better get

00:48:00.880 at least a million more views. Oh, you know, I'm going to use that thing, man. You know, I am

00:48:05.400 you die. If you die on this podcast, I'm going to jump in my car. I'm going to drive down to where

00:48:11.520 you're at right now. I'm going to throw you in the back of my truck and I'm going to drive you around

00:48:15.260 town, take you to a taxidermy. Can you imagine? That's a good idea for a joint. Taxidermy. Is

00:48:20.100 that what you said? Give me stuff to put me in the house. Dude, can you imagine having a joint,

00:48:25.520 like, for example, a podcast with three of us called if you die on this podcast?

00:48:32.260 Yeah. Oh man. Let's stay on the same thread, but shift, shift the tone of the conversation a

00:48:39.400 little bit with, with the morbidity and death. You know, Dakota, you've been, you've been very open.

00:48:44.120 In fact, when you were on my podcast years ago, probably at this point, uh, you know,

00:48:48.720 you talked about your, your, uh, struggles with depression and even suicide. Rob, is that something

00:48:55.740 that you've personally dealt with? Uh, the darkness, even suicidal attempts and, and how

00:49:00.960 that'll play out. There's no suicidal attempts. Cause I believe I'm well-trained enough as a special

00:49:06.220 operator. If I want to kill myself, I could just do it. Uh, I've never understood suicide. Hey,

00:49:11.320 if you, if you find me in a room with my head blown off and a shotgun next to me, I figured it

00:49:15.780 out. But the, um, the, uh, um, yeah, I still question if you took the shot. Yeah.

00:49:24.860 Probably have claims to have killed himself killed himself. Oh, I'm so glad we can laugh about

00:49:32.120 suicide. You guys are amazing. But, um, no, but like when, when we were at the height of our,

00:49:37.560 um, operational status, uh, especially in Iraq in 2007 ish, when we're going out on kill missions

00:49:43.380 every night, trying to win the war, as far as the, the, um, awakening and all, and the surge,

00:49:48.120 it just seemed normal. And it was almost like, it's like the, the herd mentality of, well,

00:49:53.780 we're all doing it. So it's going to be fine. And it's moral. And it didn't bother me at all.

00:49:56.900 It's like, it was almost to the point where I got to kill more guys than my buddy next to me.

00:50:00.100 Cause he got three last night. I need to get more type shit. Um, um, but, but the more you get away

00:50:06.000 from it. And like we were talking about earlier, the realization that this is not normal. Uh, these

00:50:11.840 are real people you're dealing with. You're hurting real families. There's one family that comes to me

00:50:15.780 like when we, we, we mentioned earlier that, uh, the bad guys don't even know that the bad guys,

00:50:19.640 we, I remember going into the wrong house in Iraq at night. Um, they had a beautiful house,

00:50:25.220 white carpet. I'm covered in mud, putting it all over the place. The only people that came out

00:50:30.080 were a woman and her daughter and I'm standing at wrong house. And I thought to myself,

00:50:34.420 I understand why they hate us. Of course. Why wouldn't they? So, but so the further you get

00:50:40.840 away from it, um, yeah, there's the depression comes in because, um, it's, it's not just, it's

00:50:45.420 not just the people you killed. It's the buddies you lost. It's the, it's the debacle, the way we

00:50:49.420 went out of Afghanistan. It's like, I know, I know, uh, there was 31 Americans on extortion one

00:50:54.200 seven that were shot down on August 6th, 2011. They all, there's a bunch of dads that are no

00:50:59.800 longer going home. Why, why again, um, you think about Iraq friends that had stepped on bombs and

00:51:05.960 died. And, and, uh, and you start to think, well, basically George Bush invaded Iraq because

00:51:12.340 he was mad that Saddam Hussein tried to kill his dad. So let's just go kill a couple hundred thousand

00:51:15.640 people. But, and now I'm to the point, it's like Iraq, huh? What was that all about?

00:51:19.000 So, and do you think that was the real motive with, with going back to Iraq?

00:51:23.280 It had a lot to do with it because about two weeks after the towers fell, the Pentagon was

00:51:28.240 already drawing up plans to invade Iraq, which we know damn well had not only did it have

00:51:31.980 nothing to do with 9-11, had nothing to do with anything other than oil, other than oil.

00:51:36.160 And I think you can't get off Dick Cheney either who had, who made more money off these wars

00:51:40.900 than anybody we know, right? Like, look, you want, you want to know why these wars are driven

00:51:47.720 Raytheon? I mean, yeah. Oh yeah. Lockheed. Yeah. Look at it. And if you think that that's

00:51:53.880 not real. Oh yeah. No, that's totally real. Look at Ukraine right now. Name one interest

00:51:59.000 we have in Ukraine, none, but, but even, even with the other stuff, I mean, I'll even trying

00:52:03.400 to keep the sense of humor light because like either side will say, well, uh, Clinton is

00:52:07.760 a draft dodger. Well, Trump's a draft dodger. I'm like, Hey, let's all be honest. So George

00:52:11.480 Bush during the Vietnam war, he did a hell of a job keeping the VC out of Texas.

00:52:14.940 Yeah. But yeah, I mean, so the stuff like that, where I think a lot of veterans, I, myself

00:52:21.640 included, I start to question what the fuck was I doing forever? And then, and I can, and

00:52:26.120 especially with a lot of veterans, because the VA sucks so bad, you can't get the good

00:52:29.380 treatment. You need the psychedelic treatment you need. I go to the liquor store and that's

00:52:33.120 my darkest times, man, because it's, I'll just self-medicate and you think you're going

00:52:36.460 to be fine. And it just, and I, again, I haven't thought suicide, but it's, it has made

00:52:41.360 sense before. And I know a lot of vets are there. A lot of vets actually, and that's,

00:52:45.320 and it's bad. It's, it's, it's, it's bad. And they need to, they should get the treatment

00:52:49.080 that they deserve. Um, and they shouldn't be wasting money on a lot. Like there are veterans

00:52:53.080 that have PTSD. Aladdin, you don't even need to be a veteran to have PTSD. That's something

00:52:57.100 else. Of course. Um, and again, back down to the normality of being a human being. What

00:53:03.180 I tell people is if you're having a bad day, call someone now, get out of bed, call someone.

00:53:07.600 But if you're having a good day, get out of bed and call someone, they might be having

00:53:11.500 a bad day, but yeah, but yes, uh, the PTSD is very real. And I didn't want to admit it

00:53:15.800 until a couple of years ago. It's there, it's real. And it's, it's a, it's a daily thing.

00:53:20.560 Well, the PTSD thing is hard for me. Not that I don't believe that that's a real issue that

00:53:25.180 millions of people are dealing with. I think it's being exploited. And that's what I get frustrated

00:53:30.700 with. I get frustrated with people who are making themselves into victims and trying to get

00:53:36.780 attention. And then it does a disservice to people actually need help.

00:53:41.360 Yeah, no, that's what I was trying to say too, with the, the, the, some of the programs

00:53:44.840 and whatnot. Here's a prime example. I fly a lot, which means I get to see people in their

00:53:49.480 natural environment, which is transit. I don't know what there's more of in an airport, fake

00:53:54.460 people in that aren't disabled, just fat and wheelchairs or fake service animals.

00:53:59.240 Yeah. I mean, I mean, let's, let's be honest, right? Like this is here we go to the polarizing,

00:54:05.760 right? I mean, but I think it's not just PTSD. I think it's veterans in general, right? Like

00:54:12.080 we were told that we're greater than everybody else from day one for serving that we're all

00:54:16.240 heroes that, that, I mean, we were literally told that we're better, that the nation owes

00:54:21.580 us, you know, you serve this country, you've done enough. Right. I mean, I mean, literally

00:54:27.300 like these have been put in our head since day one. Oh, thank you for your service. You're

00:54:31.700 a hero. I mean, all of these words have just been thrown out there. And, and at the end

00:54:36.780 of the day, like the heroes, they're the ones that didn't come home. Yeah. That's the only

00:54:41.880 heroes that, that, that wore the nation's cloth. We got to do that. Do you understand? We

00:54:47.560 had the privilege to put on the nation's cloth to go serve in the most powerful military

00:54:53.020 on the United States of America provide us that opportunity. And now these, these, these

00:54:58.600 veterans get out and they look around the world and they blame the world for, for our

00:55:03.180 problems. Right. Like, like, Oh, you know, you know, I, I got, I seen a bunch of bad shit.

00:55:08.620 Well, okay. Check it out. So did I. And look, the biggest problem for me was fixing my circle

00:55:15.180 when I was surrounded by a bunch of people feeling sorry for themselves who were wearing,

00:55:19.860 you know, this PTSD hat or, you know, a hundred percent disabled PTSD hat with their dog. And I

00:55:27.900 it became literally their entire identity. And, um, they had no reason. And so then what

00:55:33.580 they did is, is they become drunk assholes and then they blamed PTSD for their problem.

00:55:38.480 And it's like their catch all problem for being an asshole. And it's like, no, PTSD didn't

00:55:44.760 make you an asshole. You're just an asshole and you have PTSD and you need to fix it. Right.

00:55:50.260 That's very true. Yeah. And that's, but that's the problem is, is, is, is, but, but with that,

00:55:56.940 the, I think, I think we as veterans, we have, we have a lot of skin in the game of why that's

00:56:03.140 happening. And it's because we're not calling people out. It's because we're not policing

00:56:07.480 our own. We're not holding people accountable for like, I got you. You got PTSD. What are you

00:56:13.220 doing to get better about it? And, uh, you need to stop. Here's the accountability factors,

00:56:18.200 but instead it's like, no, let's, let's go do this retreat. And, and I see these guys,

00:56:22.760 I'll never forget back in the day. I used to go do these, these, um, uh, these therapy sessions

00:56:29.220 or whatever you call it, right? Like where they take you fishing or you go on these hunts and

00:56:33.000 all this shit. And they're like, you know, I just feel great here. And then, you know,

00:56:36.840 it's like, I got to go back home and I feel like shit. Well, that's life. Yeah. It's because

00:56:40.480 this is a vacation and that's called life. Yeah. Good point. Good point. Do you have PTSD or do you have,

00:56:46.720 uh, L I F E right? And it's like, it's like, you know, but nobody wants to call them to the table.

00:56:53.040 True. Yeah. That's a great point. PTSD is real, but stop blaming everything on PTSD. Yeah. Oh,

00:56:59.380 I can't get a job. Cause I got PTSD. Well, yeah, you can't walk into an employer and tell them that

00:57:04.100 they can't have dark lights and that you need to bring your dog and you've got five VA appointments

00:57:09.300 a day and expect them to pay you full time and accommodate the loud noise that you're crazy.

00:57:15.960 Two people that really bother me is the middle-aged man who has a mask that says,

00:57:20.460 if you can read this, you're standing too close. And the veteran outside on 4th of July says

00:57:25.280 4th of July, watch out for fireworks. Fuck you. Enjoy the fire. Shut up.

00:57:29.520 But these are the same guys like Ryan, like these are the same guys. Like they hated the military when

00:57:34.800 they were in, they were shitbags when they were in. And then they got out, they got the jacked up F two

00:57:40.140 50. They put all their combat ribbon stickers on their back windshield. They grew a beard and they

00:57:46.160 walk around with a t-shirt that says dysfunctional veteran with their, with their hat on and their

00:57:50.860 dog. And then they want to talk about, you know, going to the, to the bar and talking about kicking

00:57:55.680 indoors and shooting people in the face. And it's like, well, if you, if you loved it so much,

00:58:00.960 it's that's what fucked up your life supposedly. So I don't understand like how this makes sense.

00:58:06.660 Right. Well, I think, yes, a hundred percent. You guys are saying it way better than I could,

00:58:13.120 but I just think it comes down to attention a lot of the times. And there's an economy that we live

00:58:18.880 in right now that is based on attention and social media followers and that little blue check

00:58:26.940 on your Instagram or Twitter account. And if you have that, then well, and the other thing too,

00:58:32.560 is that if you're a victim, whether you are or not, then you're going to get whatever, whatever it is

00:58:39.280 you want. I think that's the simple thing right there is, are you a victim? That's brilliant. That's

00:58:45.040 the whole thing. It all boils down to the victim. And the reason I say this, Ryan, like I say this,

00:58:50.740 I'm like, I want to follow up before the, before I get it, just a meltdown city. Right. Um,

00:58:57.920 the reason I say this and I say it so passionately is cause that was me, you know, that was me and all

00:59:05.340 those people who, Oh, you know, Dakota, from what you've seen, you know, it's okay. No, it wasn't okay.

00:59:13.220 Me drinking. It was bullshit that you were part of that. It was bullshit. You let me act like that.

00:59:20.520 It was bullshit that you, you let me waste seven or eight years of my life being the victim,

00:59:27.280 because I thought this was normal because you said it was okay. And it's like, no, it was,

00:59:33.780 it's insane. And, and, and it was like, it just like, you know, until I had my daughter,

00:59:39.720 you know, I mean, I was, I mean, that was me. That was me walking around. I guess I'm so embarrassed

00:59:46.940 to say it, but it, it was me. And, um, and I'm just glad that, that, you know, I got around people

00:59:54.500 who I changed from being around people who wanted to, um, feed that to people who wanted to hold me

01:00:02.960 accountable. And that's just accountability is a big one too. I'll never forget. I walked into

01:00:06.740 Marcus Latrell's house, walked into Marcus Latrell's house. And I write, I think it's in the book.

01:00:11.420 And, um, man, I was down, I was down. I was just feeling sorry for myself. And I called,

01:00:17.880 I called him and Marcus said, Hey, check it out. Here's my address. I'll see you in three hours.

01:00:23.700 I'm like, okay. He's like, just get here, just get, get here, get to the house. And he's like,

01:00:29.500 we'll figure it out. And, you know, I expected to get there and it'd be like, you know, a whole

01:00:35.220 woe is me session. Right. Like, you know, like, just like it typically would be. And man,

01:00:41.560 I'll never forget. I pulled in there. Marcus was standing behind his couch in his living room,

01:00:47.460 looked over at me, walked over, gave me a hug. I mean, Marcus is just a giant anyways.

01:00:52.840 Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:53.680 Gave me a hug. And he looked at me and goes, the hell's wrong with you? He said, I mean,

01:01:00.080 literally I was in the middle of my divorce on teen mom. Like the world was crashing on me.

01:01:05.540 No doubt. And, um, and he's like, what the hell's wrong with you? He's like, he's like,

01:01:11.020 look, you've been through way harder. He's like, we get to wake up and live this life.

01:01:15.420 We get to walk around and, and be part of this. Like we got each other and with each other,

01:01:20.280 we can get through anything. Like you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. And I mean,

01:01:24.260 it was literally that direct of a conversation. And, uh, and it was,

01:01:30.060 it was one of the moments in my life that just the changed how I approach these things.

01:01:36.800 Now, do I still wake up with anxiety? Do I still, do I still have bad days? I do.

01:01:43.000 But like Rob's always told me, are you having a bad life or a bad day, a bad hour or a bad moment?

01:01:48.960 Right. And, and, and, you know, those are the things that have got me, have done way more for

01:01:55.120 me than, than going in these groups of feeling sorry for myself. Well, disengaging versus actually

01:02:01.340 dealing with the real issues. For sure. What's, uh, what's your guys' take on, you know, we see a lot

01:02:08.880 of, um, military members running for political office. I'd be really curious about your guys' take

01:02:14.840 on that. I think that's, uh, I think that's really good because regardless of the side of

01:02:19.760 the aisle, they're going to put, they're not going to put, most veterans aren't going to put

01:02:23.660 party politics first. You, you see that right now with Tulsi Gabbard, the Democrat, but she's going

01:02:28.140 to speak at CPAC. Like, uh, uh, the veterans, I, for the most part, I think we'll get in a room and

01:02:34.940 talk to each other. Kind of like we're talking to each other. We can work it out. Okay. Maybe you're

01:02:39.060 wrong. Maybe I'm wrong somewhere in the middle. We're going to find this. And most veterans really do

01:02:43.840 have the country first. And I think, I think having vets in there is great because, um, you know,

01:02:48.380 even the, I think you learn a lot in the military that you don't learn in the civilian side. There's

01:02:52.240 that there's, uh, there's something good about it. Like, uh, being in, being a veteran, especially

01:02:57.560 deploying overseas, especially being a combat veteran. Cause we all know there's, there's a

01:03:00.820 difference between a vet and a combat vet. Um, uh, I think it's a good thing. I really do. Um,

01:03:07.080 it's a lot better than these people that wear their suits and call themselves war hawks. Cause

01:03:10.740 they're, I mean, they're, they're the lowest of low these lobbyists that get, they get the big,

01:03:14.900 they get the big contract because of their buddy, because they, they fund their campaign. I'm not,

01:03:19.120 the veterans don't do that. I mean, you go to Washington long enough. Um, you're, as you're

01:03:23.780 seeing the swamp has fangs and you're going to be a part of it. And it's like the, uh, even right now,

01:03:28.480 we're the only country in the world that lives on a four year cycle. That's kind of how we roll.

01:03:32.740 Um, so the way I feel about it is, um, the problem in Washington is not the person in the

01:03:38.680 white house for four or eight years. It's the person in the Capitol for 50 years. Um, so getting

01:03:42.860 more veterans in there, it's like the whole, I know I don't want to get all political cause we're

01:03:46.060 coming up on time here, but like term limits is never going to happen. If we keep these same people

01:03:50.060 in there, like Nancy Pelosi is running for her 19th term because we got to make some change in

01:03:56.020 Washington. The fuck are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's good too,

01:04:02.040 because you know, if you're, I mean, these are the people that are sending our sons and daughters to war

01:04:06.460 not there. So like, I, I want you to know, I want to know that you understand the stakes

01:04:11.800 of what's going down here. Couldn't care less. Dakota, what do you think?

01:04:15.400 But you can't, and I got that right. Like I would love to see more veterans serving at Congress,

01:04:19.960 but, um, you know, at the end of the day, like veterans were never, they never screened veterans

01:04:25.200 for morals, right? Like they never screened veterans. That's true. Yeah. So again, like,

01:04:31.140 I think that that title holds so much weight inside the United States that, I mean,

01:04:35.900 like I've seen some veterans that I thought were friends that got up there and have literally

01:04:39.320 just, just have to have like, have gone off the deep end. And, um, I mean, look,

01:04:45.180 I think a perfect example is, is a man who, who wrote on his veteran status, uh, for a long time,

01:04:51.780 uh, was John McCain. Right. And, and, and, you know, it's like, I, I told him, and I'll say this

01:04:56.660 guy told it straight to his face. You know, he, he stopped, he stopped serving his country as soon

01:05:00.940 as he got out of the military. And, um, you know, you look at you, I just don't think that

01:05:06.480 I understand that veteran and serving your country is something that is a huge title and has a lot of

01:05:12.420 weight, but I just think on the backside of it, um, you know, just like being a medal of honor

01:05:16.560 recipient, just cause you got the medal of honor, they didn't do any character screening or moral

01:05:20.800 screening, right? Like all they did was go off the actions that happened that day. It doesn't

01:05:25.200 mean I'm a good person. It doesn't mean that I should have any credibility in any space other than,

01:05:29.280 you know, that, that I was good for one day. Um, and so I just think that like,

01:05:34.700 yeah, I think we need more veterans up there because of the perspective that they have. But

01:05:37.920 I think that what's more important to that is that we need good people up there.

01:05:41.720 I'm still going to rely back on it. I'd rather, I'd rather have a veteran than a lawyer.

01:05:45.920 Well, but again, I said good people. Oh, fair enough. Jeez.

01:05:51.500 Well, look, it's, I think you're right. I think that's, I think that's a valid point is that

01:05:56.180 it's something that's on the resume, but it's not the only thing that's on the resume. We need to

01:06:01.840 look at what else is going on. Yeah, for sure. Hey, as we close this out, guys, what, what, uh,

01:06:09.020 what message do you want to share at the bottom line at the root of all of it from, um, the way

01:06:13.340 forward the book and just your, your message and what you want to put out there, uh, in general?

01:06:18.080 Uh, just in general, like we've sort of said a few times that, um, most of us are the same

01:06:24.260 and you don't need to be putting people on a pedestal just because there's somebody else

01:06:27.320 just like, just because somebody shot a famous guy or someone can dunk a basketball or, or

01:06:32.620 someone can run a four to 40. I mean, well, the four to 40, he's probably better than you,

01:06:36.640 but, uh, um, like the, okay, those are the one percenters, but, um, most people like, uh,

01:06:43.240 even with a Navy seal is one of the common things is they say, well, you don't look like a Navy

01:06:47.080 seal. And it's like, well, what does the Navy seal look like? Uh, these are normal dudes.

01:06:50.480 Most of us there were normal, but we get it, whatever it is, we get it. And also whatever

01:06:54.780 it is, we can get over it. Like if you hold a grudge forever, you're not going to be very

01:06:58.480 successful in life. If you learn from something, get over it. That's it. I mean, but normal people

01:07:03.160 following good advice, um, be nice. You can do whatever you want. That's pretty much the premise

01:07:08.940 of the book. And then a lot of humor too. I mean, it it's, I know we're selling the book. It is

01:07:13.700 worth picking up the way forward to read the chapter where I go hunting with my

01:07:16.880 brother. Who's more of a, I don't know, weed smoker than a hunter. Great story.

01:07:22.040 All right. We'll make sure we get to the guys so they can check out that story exclusively.

01:07:26.600 Dakota, how about you, brother?

01:07:28.380 Yeah. I mean, I would just say, look, like the way forward is, is it's not, it's not just

01:07:33.580 a book title. It's not just a, I mean, it's literally the way of life, right? The way forward

01:07:38.280 you talk about me, Ryan, you know, about jujitsu, right? Like what is the most vulnerable

01:07:41.920 place on you? You're back. Yeah. Right. Sure. So like, like maintaining a way forward,

01:07:47.880 understanding there's a way forward, um, keeping your shoulders facing forward, quit, quit, quit

01:07:52.920 looking in the rear view mirror. You know, you look in your car, you drive a car, people

01:07:56.160 drive cars every day. Your windshield is so much bigger than your rear view mirror. Imagine

01:08:00.940 trying to drive your car and only looking at your rear view mirror. What's going to happen.

01:08:04.140 You're going to crash. Right. So, I mean, you know, look, look, wake up every single day

01:08:08.360 and, and, and, and give your best and do two things, do something every single day to make

01:08:13.200 yourself better and do something to make everybody, everyone around you better, just a little

01:08:16.880 bit better every day, you know, and, um, stop worrying about, stop worrying about the things

01:08:22.440 that don't matter. Uh, I think, you know, one of the things I talk about a lot is, is flying

01:08:26.600 a helicopter, you know, so flying a helicopter, you've got so many things to do. And, uh, what we

01:08:31.420 do is we have to, to, to just focus on what matters at that time. And I focus on three

01:08:36.600 gauges. That's my altitude. That's my airspeed, my power. As long as I have those three things,

01:08:41.820 I've got time to figure out whatever else is thrown at me. And, and that, that's the

01:08:46.240 way we're at in life, right? Is, is if you do good, if you do the next right thing, um,

01:08:51.680 then, then, then everything's going to always work out. And there is always a way forward.

01:08:56.380 Dakota, if you said that so well, I'm going to go try to find a copy of this book.

01:09:01.420 I was really good. Pick up a copy of this book, man. This is good guys. I appreciate you both.

01:09:06.780 I appreciate all you do and always your willingness, even maybe in slight disagreement,

01:09:11.020 um, to speak what's on your mind, to put it out there because the more people that are doing that

01:09:16.400 and the more conversations we're having like this, the better off we are. So guys pick up a copy of

01:09:20.920 the book, the way forward, connect with these guys. Appreciate you both. Thanks for joining me today.

01:09:25.700 Thank you. Seriously. Appreciate it, man. Thank you. Thank you.

01:09:29.200 All right, gentlemen, there you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I know I did. It was

01:09:35.420 good to be able to sit down with both of these guys, true American heroes. Although both of them

01:09:39.560 say that they're not, I, I, I tend to disagree on that point. Uh, regardless, great to have them

01:09:45.220 on the podcast, talking about some very important issues that I think a lot of men are dealing with.

01:09:51.020 And as they said, you don't need to be a veteran or a warrior, uh, or have experience in battle to

01:09:59.600 learn the lessons they've learned to apply those lessons in your life to varying degrees, and then

01:10:05.420 to see the results that will inevitably come from it. So as a parting, make sure that you are signed up

01:10:13.500 to be notified about the iron council. Uh, also pick up a copy of Rob and Dakota's book.

01:10:19.360 The way forward comes out today as of the release of this podcast. And outside of that,

01:10:24.420 biggest thing, most important thing is take everything that we're talking about and everything

01:10:29.520 we have been talking about for the past seven years and apply it in your lives. Connect with

01:10:35.140 me on the socials, connect with Rob, connect with Dakota, take a screenshot, share this with the people

01:10:39.640 who need to hear it or who would enjoy hearing it. And you have your marching orders guys. We'll be

01:10:44.360 back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are

01:10:50.380 meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:10:55.220 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

ROB O'NEILL and DAKOTA MEYER ｜ Master Life's Toughest Battles

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