Order of Man - RYAN HAWK ｜ Uncommon Behaviors of Productive Achievers

00:00:00.000 Guys, we're all focused right now on producing maximum results. And while most men will likely

00:00:05.180 bow out of their new year's resolutions in the next 30 days or so, I still think it makes a ton

00:00:10.580 of sense to consider what new habits and actions that you personally can implement on your path to

00:00:16.040 change your life. And that's why I wanted to have my good friend and fellow podcaster, Ryan Hawk

00:00:20.980 back on the podcast. He's got a new book coming out that I highly, highly recommend. It's called

00:00:25.800 The Pursuit of Excellence, Uncommon Behaviors of the World's Most Productive Achievers. Today,

00:00:32.440 Ryan and I cover why we should focus on long-term results over short-term gains, privilege and

00:00:38.660 nepotism, and how to tip the odds in your favor. Also the difference between being liked and being

00:00:44.220 respected, how to find meaning and joy in the climb, and ultimately how to achieve excellence

00:00:50.460 in your life, especially as we roll into 2022. You're a man of action. You live life

00:00:55.660 to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down,

00:01:00.880 you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient,

00:01:07.820 strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:01:14.320 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:18.400 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of the

00:01:22.400 Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back. The very first episode of 2022.

00:01:29.820 Guys, the amount of downloads and people that have been listening over the past several months is

00:01:35.520 far exceeding my expectations. So I want to thank you for tuning in. I also want to thank you for

00:01:40.980 sharing the work and the message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. And it seems to me that you

00:01:47.160 understand and appreciate how important it is that we develop strong, capable, righteous men

00:01:54.000 in society. And that's what I'm going to continue to do as we roll into the rest of 2022. So excited

00:02:00.240 that you're here. Before I introduce Ryan, just want to make a very quick mention of my friends and show

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00:03:18.620 All right. Let me introduce you to Ryan. Uh, he's a good friend of mine. He's a fellow podcaster.

00:03:23.620 He's got the learning leader podcast. Uh, I believe that Ryan and I started podcasting around the same

00:03:30.280 time. And I've, I've learned a ton from him watching him and grow his movement and tandem with

00:03:34.640 me trying to do the same on my end. This guy's a speaker. He's a podcaster. He's an advisor. He's

00:03:39.800 an author of two books now and has done a phenomenal job of leveraging his talents in the corporate world

00:03:45.620 and in the football field and the football arena and all, all the areas of life that he's lived,

00:03:50.480 uh, to help fortune 500 companies, NBA and NFL teams, and also some of the most recognizable brands

00:03:57.300 on the planet. So guys, you're really, really going to, uh, get a lot of value from our conversation.

00:04:03.600 He's the author of, uh, welcome to management. And then his newest book, which we talk a little

00:04:08.280 bit about today, the pursuit of excellence. So enjoy. Ryan, man, it's so good to see you.

00:04:15.000 You were saying before I hit record here, it hasn't been seven years since it has been so

00:04:20.420 for May, really May. No, you published our first episode together, which I think it was your eighth

00:04:25.460 one, I believe in May of 2015. And we both were kind of getting started around then. And now

00:04:33.520 yeah, like seven years, man, which is nuts. That's why I, I became a fan like, right. As we started

00:04:40.160 talking and to see where you and the whole movement and everything you're doing is compared to then

00:04:46.080 it's just that, you know what it is, man, it was really cool to me. It shows like, if you show up

00:04:51.240 every day, consistently putting in the work, like this is possible. And I think that's, what's

00:04:57.800 inspiring to me because that's like what you're all about. At least from, from my perspective is

00:05:02.080 this is a dude who gets smarter and it's a thoughtful guy, but just puts in the work.

00:05:10.140 So when people ask me about starting podcasts, you're one of the ones I point to is like,

00:05:14.160 this is a great example of a person to look at his story from the beginning to where he's at now.

00:05:18.960 And I still think you're probably only scratching the surface of where you're going to go.

00:05:23.360 And it's a, it's a whole movement, man. So it's just, I'm so honored and it's so cool to be with

00:05:28.240 you, man. I really appreciate all the flattery and, and I'll certainly take it, you know, I'll

00:05:33.120 certainly take it, but I feel the very much the same way about what you've done. And, um, you know,

00:05:38.200 I've always enjoyed our conversations and to follow your progress. And you, and you talk a lot

00:05:42.880 about that even, cause I know you've got the new book coming out is I think people overlook

00:05:48.400 consistency. They think, well, you know, this, this guy has something special, right. Or,

00:05:55.820 or, or this person has a connection. I don't, or this person's independently wealthy. And so they

00:06:00.780 can afford that. And for me, and, and I imagine you probably feel the same way. And a lot of your,

00:06:05.140 your guests have as well. Like I personally, I can't afford the luxury of being inconsistent.

00:06:11.760 Yes. Like that's like, if there's anything I can do is just show up every day and,

00:06:15.320 you know, hope, hope and pray that things work out. Well, I think it's just, it's not a really

00:06:19.960 sexy quality, right. Of, of when somebody says, you know, how do I, you know, how do I make it,

00:06:26.120 whatever the, however you define that, or how do I get a big show? Like, like you've got, or how do I

00:06:30.560 get anything like you've got? And if you tell them, well, here's, here's, here's maybe some of it.

00:06:37.060 And that is work incredibly hard every single day, ship the same time, the same day, the same,

00:06:46.280 every single week for about four or five years. And then maybe, maybe something good will happen.

00:06:54.780 Maybe you'll achieve some of those things. Maybe. So think about that though. Like what,

00:06:59.400 how much work goes into you shipping consistently every week? And I mean shipping, like shipping,

00:07:03.520 whether it's your book or books, your podcast, like everything that you do, the events you host,

00:07:08.860 right. All of that takes constant, consistent work every day, essentially. And then you might,

00:07:17.360 might be in a position that you're in. And I think that's just not a fun answer. People don't like

00:07:22.260 that answer. They want something faster. They want it now. They, they, they want it, want it to happen

00:07:26.960 for them immediately. And that's just not how it works. So to me, it's like, I think you have to,

00:07:31.060 what I tell them is you have to almost fall in love with the daily actions of what it takes in

00:07:37.560 order to potentially get what you've got. And that's, that's what I've, I firmly believe in.

00:07:42.500 Like, I love the actual process of doing exactly what you and I are doing right now. And if we didn't,

00:07:48.420 I don't think it would work because you probably get the same thing where like, Ryan, I want to get,

00:07:52.480 I'm going to get more keynote speeches, or I want to publish a book, or I want to do this.

00:07:56.120 So that's why I'm starting a podcast because it could be a good marketing tool. And I'll say,

00:08:00.820 I don't think it's going to work if that's the reason you're doing it. I think it has a chance

00:08:06.220 to work if your reason for doing it is because you love the thought of talking with thoughtful people

00:08:12.960 and you're willing to prepare and you're willing to listen and you're willing to take notes and

00:08:18.420 you're willing to do all of the work it takes to produce a good podcast. Like if you love that part

00:08:22.920 of it, that's what gives you a chance. But if you want it for like all the other stuff,

00:08:27.200 I don't know. I think it's too hard for you to have something like that work, especially for guys

00:08:32.080 like you and me who are not famous or, or don't have any, you know, didn't, didn't go into it with

00:08:37.000 anything. I think that's, that's the part of it. That's that people also don't love to hear.

00:08:41.620 Well, you know, the other thing too, is I think you have to be okay with to some degree of just

00:08:48.220 letting the chips fall where they may, you know? So, so many people have this direction they want

00:08:52.820 to pursue and they have this ultimate objective they want and they put in some work and then they

00:08:58.860 see themselves or the results deviate a little bit like, Oh, maybe it's not taking me in the path

00:09:04.800 I want to go. And so they throw in the towel. And one of the things I've noticed over the past seven

00:09:09.400 years and even longer than that now is, yeah, I have this benchmark, this, this objective I want to

00:09:15.040 hit. But what, what I found is that through being consistent, that benchmark has shifted a little

00:09:20.720 bit for me. And so you said, well, you know, it may not work. What you originally set out to

00:09:28.020 accomplish may not work, but if you're consistent in productive, healthy habits, something's going to

00:09:33.820 work like something, like it's going to be better. We just don't entirely know what it is.

00:09:39.360 Exactly. You're going to learn through the process. I think that's like a, a key metric to think

00:09:43.860 about of any project or anything you're going to start is even if quote unquote, it doesn't work.

00:09:49.380 What am I going to learn through going, going through it? I think that's a key question to ask

00:09:54.080 and to answer. And what you said also reminds me of Bill Walsh's book is called the score takes care

00:09:59.580 of itself. And basically champions behave like champions long before they become champions.

00:10:05.120 And I think that's, again, you're, you're, you're, you're kind of proof of that. Our stories of

00:10:09.420 consistently showing up and shipping a weekly or even more than that helps that score kind of take

00:10:16.720 care of itself, but we can focus on the input of like, this is what I'm willing to do. And then as

00:10:20.980 you said, the chips kind of fall where they may. And I'm a believer that the, the score will take

00:10:25.280 care of itself. And I consistently work at trying to, to, to produce something that's useful for other

00:10:30.360 people and helps them out. What, what keeps people from deviating though? Cause I, I don't think

00:10:36.080 what you're saying with all due respect and the things I'm talking about with you right now,

00:10:39.840 it's not necessarily new information, right? Like everybody knows, okay, I have to be consistent.

00:10:45.440 I have to ship a product. I have to do it. Even if I don't feel like doing it, I have to be

00:10:49.620 committed to the process, but what is it that keeps people from doing it over long periods of time? Is it

00:10:56.460 just boredom? Is it something else? I think sometimes if you start like, I don't know about you,

00:11:02.900 but I'm sure it is a little bit motivating to see your show grow, right? You see that more and more

00:11:09.420 people are, are getting value from it. You're improving the lives of other people. And that

00:11:15.160 is a motivating factor. Like to me, that that's helpful. So if you don't see that, that could be

00:11:19.580 hard. I would bet if you're like, Oh my gosh, it's not helping people or it's not, it's nobody seems to

00:11:25.380 really care. Uh, I think that could be part of it. Actually, hold on Brian, before you move on to the

00:11:30.000 next one with that, do you think people, and here's what I've identified anyways, is that

00:11:34.980 sometimes people have the wrong metrics. So, so like they're, they're thinking, well, I should

00:11:40.880 worry about, let's just take our, our example. I should worry about podcast growth and they don't

00:11:45.760 see the, the growth that they expected. And so they throw in the towel, but really maybe they were

00:11:50.960 measuring the wrong thing or even they had an unrealistic expectation of what is even achievable.

00:11:57.900 Yeah. I think, I think that you, I think you're right. Uh, there's a chance to that, that I guess

00:12:06.640 I'm speaking for myself that it would, it would bother me if there was, if it wasn't growing.

00:12:11.920 Cause that, that would be like a signal in a way that it's, it's not helping people or the word of

00:12:16.620 mouth isn't spreading. Cause that's how you truly know if something's good. Cause they're, you honestly

00:12:20.800 give a recommendation to your friend. Hey, you should listen to this. You should read this,

00:12:23.860 whatever it may be. So I think that's part of it, but also you, you bring up something that makes me

00:12:29.520 think. And that is like, why are you doing it? So I initially started doing it as a way to, to

00:12:36.500 create my own form of a leadership PhD program. Like I earned my MBA and I, I thought about going

00:12:42.720 back to school for another graduate degree, but didn't like love the MBA process because you don't

00:12:49.480 really get to pick your classes. They tell you, you have to take this, this, and this with these

00:12:53.760 specific professors. And then you get the certificate of saying you have a master's of business

00:12:58.980 administration. And I thought, well, I'm kind of glad I have the certificate and it'll probably help

00:13:04.740 me in my career, especially where I was at that point. But, but I don't necessarily like love the

00:13:10.820 thought of going through that again for another, another degree. So I thought, what if I could

00:13:15.800 choose my own professors and speak with them directly one-on-one and that could become my

00:13:24.520 leadership PhD? Now I won't get a certificate. I won't get a PhD, but I'll, I'll, I'll build one

00:13:31.220 and create one that I think could be more beneficial for me and maybe help other people along the way,

00:13:38.040 because I'm going to learn in public. I'm going to publish these conversations. And then obviously

00:13:42.580 what goes along with that is it gives you the opportunity, like, like, you know, as well as

00:13:46.860 anybody, if you have, if you start building a platform, all of a sudden, you know, you might

00:13:51.220 be sitting next to David Goggins and getting to talk to him as a, as one of those professors for you,

00:13:56.580 as opposed to just randomly kind of cold calling people. Cause if you have a podcast platform,

00:14:02.000 it will attract people to want to share their message, especially if they're like promoting

00:14:06.240 something. So that's another big benefit of learning in public and publishing the work is if you

00:14:10.760 are fortunate enough to build a platform that, that people pay attention to, then others will

00:14:16.000 come to you, uh, as opposed to only you going to them. Yeah. I mean, I even think about that with

00:14:22.120 the college degree, you know, it's, it's, it's got some value, no doubt. Um, I've, I've been an open,

00:14:27.700 uh, critic of having a college degree unless it's needed. Like, let me just throw that disclaimer

00:14:35.680 unless it's needed. You know, if you're going down a career path that a PhD or a doctorate or whatever

00:14:40.420 is required, then, okay, I get it. I understand. But if you're just doing it for a piece of paper,

00:14:45.420 I could spend the same amount of time, four years, let's say, or six years, however long it's going

00:14:49.360 to take you. And I could build an incredibly powerful network and be light years ahead of

00:14:54.620 you, not only with information, but access to opportunities because I spent four to six years

00:15:00.240 actively engaged in building out a network. So we just released. I'm curious podcasts.

00:15:05.560 Oh, you're going to go with your son. Yeah. Your son. Go ahead. Yeah. We just released a podcast,

00:15:09.700 my son and I, and I said, you know, what, what do you think is the most valuable thing of this?

00:15:13.300 And I don't prompt him on this stuff. Like I ask him questions. I don't tell him what to answer.

00:15:17.560 And he said to me, well, just like the guys I've been able to meet. I'm like, Oh man,

00:15:21.740 I'm so glad that you get that because you're a 13 year old kid, young man. I don't like to say kid

00:15:29.680 you're a 13 year old young man and you understand better than grown adults, how powerful a network

00:15:38.460 can be. If you have the right people in your circle. Yeah. I was, I, I love what you're doing

00:15:44.020 with your son. I think it's, it's, it's amazing to watch again. It's, it's, it's inspiring to watch as

00:15:48.700 a dad, um, the stuff that you're doing. Um, but the one thing I will say the caveat to the college

00:15:54.800 question is if you, the, the, the, so I went to college to play football, I football scholarship.

00:16:01.620 So I, I, I was not a good student. I was pretty good. Um, I didn't, I did well enough, but not a

00:16:08.940 great student for me. It was about doing that. I would say that when I was 18, 19, 20, I wasn't

00:16:16.180 mature enough to really know what to do. I think your son and your kids in general probably are

00:16:22.260 going to be in a much better position because they have you and your wife helping them. If they decide

00:16:28.400 not to go to college, to do what you should be doing in a way, college is good because if you're

00:16:33.880 like me, where you're not necessarily mature enough to actually know what to do. Um, so I think that's

00:16:41.000 the one caveat I would, I would put, if you actually have a plan and a strategy of what you're going

00:16:45.520 to do instead of going by all means, but if you don't and you're going to, and you're like me and

00:16:50.520 you're kind of immature and you need to grow up, that's the part where I think could be, could be

00:16:54.320 an issue for people. Yeah, I agree. And, and I think, I think probably somewhere along your path

00:17:01.200 of, of acquiring that degree, maybe not immediately. Cause you just wanted to play football. It sounds

00:17:06.160 like, but you got a little bit more intentional about it. And so look, if you go to college and you're

00:17:12.720 not intentional about it, okay. I mean, you could waste four years and tens, if not hundreds of

00:17:18.220 thousands of dollars and walk away in the same position you were four to six years earlier,

00:17:23.180 but if you're intentional about it, then college, even college, something, again, I've been openly

00:17:29.300 critical about even college becomes a powerful path because again, you're going to build networks.

00:17:34.920 You're going to have information. You're going to open doors to opportunities. I guess I'm an

00:17:40.120 advocate for intentionality more so than I am going to, or not going to college.

00:17:45.060 And, and I, I, this is a big thing I think about all the time is your who, right? The, the who,

00:17:52.500 or your mentor board of advisors or your kitchen cabinet, whatever you want to call it, the people

00:17:57.480 that you build mutually beneficial relationships with. That's really what makes all of this go.

00:18:06.180 I think, I mean, if, if you look at the people you're surrounded by the relationships you build,

00:18:10.940 that gives you the greatest chance for things to go well. That's, I remember I, when I was

00:18:16.420 recording with Jim Collins, you know, one of my literary heroes, I was, I was kind of amped up

00:18:21.860 and similar to how I am with you actually, and kind of excited and going on and on. He's like,

00:18:25.440 calm down, bud. He goes, who, who's your mentor? Who are your friends? Who's your spouse?

00:18:31.740 Who are you spending the most time with? Your who will have the single greatest determining

00:18:37.400 factor in your long-term success or failure, your who. So really get clear on that. And that's the

00:18:44.060 biggest advice I'd give to my younger self. I get to everybody is how are you intentional? Again,

00:18:48.500 using that word intentional about the people you're choosing to surround yourself with. How are you

00:18:54.200 pouring into them? How are you adding value to their life so that they actually want to have a

00:18:58.580 relationship with you? That I think is, is key. And a lot of us, when people say, oh, it's not what,

00:19:03.980 you know, it's who, you know, like, I don't, I don't like that when it's said in a cynical way,

00:19:08.880 but that is kind of how life works. Like if you build solid, great relationships with people,

00:19:16.060 I think your odds of things going well, go up. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

00:19:21.240 When I was in hiring positions, when I'm in hiring positions, I'm thinking about that. Like,

00:19:25.780 who do I trust? Who do I believe in? Who have I built relationships with? I usually call them

00:19:29.900 first, right? Why wouldn't you? I've been called first on the other end of that. Like, I think

00:19:34.680 that just makes sense. And that's human nature. But you said, I don't think there's anything wrong

00:19:39.640 with that. Are there people who fault that? Like that, because you're kind of alluding to it that

00:19:44.980 maybe there's something wrong with it. Well, sometimes you hear that. Like, I think it's usually a more

00:19:49.740 cynical voice where they make that comment because for example, I got a job once. It was a big job

00:19:56.480 in corporate America. I was a VP of sales. It was in charge of a lot of revenue. And there's a little

00:20:01.900 criticism because the guy who hired me had been a mentor of mine for seven years. And I built a

00:20:07.720 relationship with him for seven years where we met quarterly and he really helped me. And the interview

00:20:13.360 process kind of got fast tracked and people said, Oh, it's not what he knows. It's who he knows.

00:20:17.660 And to an extent, they were right. I mean, they were right. That's the point.

00:20:23.220 He hired me because he believed in me. He trusted me because we built a seven year relationship. So

00:20:27.880 I think people got upset because they felt like the interview process wasn't fair. Well, in a way it

00:20:32.500 was like, well, I've been interviewing for the job for seven years. That's how I got it. So I would say

00:20:37.620 that's the thing to think about is I know I didn't go into that relationship thinking like, I hope this

00:20:42.740 guy hires me someday. I went into it thinking, well, he's, he's really thoughtful,

00:20:47.280 intentional guy. He went to Harvard and West Point. He fought overseas. He did a lot. And so

00:20:52.640 I was impressed by him and I worked hard to build that relationship because I wanted to learn from

00:20:57.640 him. And then that turned into eventually someday a job, but yeah, there were some people who didn't

00:21:02.840 like the process because of, you know, it was fast tracked and, and, and it was, it was probably

00:21:08.760 because of our relationship and not about like the, the so-called interview process being fair.

00:21:13.020 I mean, look, for me, when I hear it's not fair, I'm like, good. Yeah. I don't want it to be fair.

00:21:17.260 I want to tip the tables in my, like my direction. I, why would I want a fair fight? Like, you know,

00:21:23.320 it's like the old adage of bringing a, bringing a knife to a gunfight. It's like, no, no, no. I want

00:21:28.140 the guy to bring a knife and I bring a gun. Like I want it to be unfair.

00:21:32.020 Exactly. And the other thing too, is man, like what were you doing the last seven years? Like,

00:21:37.020 I know if I am going for a job and the other person who's going for it had been building a

00:21:43.180 relationship with the person making the decision for seven years, dude, I'm not winning that. I'm

00:21:48.340 not getting that job. Like that's life. Like that, that's how it works. Like it's just not going to

00:21:52.360 happen. I mean, so I think that's what, you know, I read, I like to read books about like the building

00:21:57.900 of companies. There's one on HBO that just came out called Tinder box and all, it's the same thing.

00:22:02.280 Like all the people who are built, who built that from the beginning. And when they started hiring

00:22:06.840 others to help them build it, as it grew, who do you think they were calling? They were calling

00:22:11.560 people they knew. They were calling people they trust, right? They're calling people who they,

00:22:14.700 who they believed in that, that would be able to help them build that company. That's kind of how

00:22:18.400 all companies are built. I mean, for the most part, you're going to call people that you trust,

00:22:21.920 that you believe in that can get the work done. And I think that's, that's the critical component is as

00:22:25.960 you're building relationships, are you known as a value added resource? Are you a person who makes

00:22:31.400 people, places, and things better? And, and so that's how I would try to approach like building

00:22:37.020 a career is every person I meet, am I helping them? Am I making them better? Am I adding value

00:22:41.620 to their life? If not, well, then it's kind of on me. It's my fault for, for, for, for not going well.

00:22:47.920 It's not anybody else's. So that's what I mean by that when it comes to kind of the who versus the

00:22:52.280 what. I mean, that makes sense. Cause you hear these things thrown around like privilege or

00:22:56.500 nepotism and it's like, okay, well, you know, you can think what you want to think, but at the end of the

00:22:59.960 day, I still have a job. Um, and you don't, so, uh, but I also wrote here, you know, you wrote that,

00:23:06.360 or you said it's the importance of who, you know, and I think maybe just to put that on its head a

00:23:13.420 little bit is not only that, but it's the importance of who you're important to. And you, you alluded to

00:23:21.260 that already. Cause you said, Hey, when I'm interacting with people, you know, I, I try to add value. I try to be

00:23:27.620 a value add. I try to give and share and contribute. And they want me around. You know, I think about

00:23:32.120 the relationship that you and I have, you're valuable to me because you share insight with me

00:23:36.900 and I've read your books and, uh, you've had me on your podcast and I'm valuable to you because you

00:23:41.820 can come here and you can promote a podcast and we have that value exchange. And I think that's where

00:23:47.240 a lot of guys get hung up namely because they don't think they have value to add. So I want to ask you

00:23:53.400 about that. When somebody thinks that, Hey, I get it, Ryan, I hear what you're saying,

00:23:58.020 but I don't have anything to contribute to these people. What advice do you give those individuals?

00:24:04.820 Well, so this, this question usually happens from someone who maybe is a little younger

00:24:09.120 and I, I really push them to surround themselves with mentors or people who have gone before them,

00:24:15.760 people who have accomplished something that maybe they want to accomplish and they've done it in a

00:24:19.820 way that they, that you admire. Right. So somebody like that comes to me and they say,

00:24:23.640 well, I don't have any value to give. I don't have anything. I promise you there's always something.

00:24:28.400 And I'll give one example. There's many, but I'll give one example of this. Let's say, Ryan, I say,

00:24:34.080 you know, find a way to, to, to, um, uh, get in the room with this person one-on-one or have a zoom

00:24:40.720 call, whatever it may be. And I'll usually help them with the cold email. The one word I'll say with

00:24:44.840 writing cold emails, not to get too much off track, which is just be very specific

00:24:49.800 in your ask. I'm sure you hate the email. Hey, Ryan, love what you've built. Can I pick your

00:24:56.660 brain? Right. That is not really helpful because there's, it's like, well, what does this guy want?

00:25:01.860 Like he said, he didn't want to literally pick my brain. Like, what does he want?

00:25:04.440 It's the opposite of helpful. You're actually look, I'm going to be really frank right here.

00:25:08.720 When you send an email like that, what you're asking me to do, if somebody sends me an email like

00:25:12.460 that, what they're asking me to do is to do work. Oh, so you want me to help you and you want me to do

00:25:18.340 the work by showing up or by being prepared or by asking you a series of questions. Sounds like

00:25:24.600 a bad deal right out of the gate. What would be better if I was going to reach out to you for

00:25:29.820 advice is, Hey, I saw you restoring a barn or building a boat or was it a canoe, a build canoe

00:25:37.840 or building a canoe with your son. And I love the pictures you posted. I love what you said about

00:25:45.040 that. And the whole process, I would love to learn about that one specific thing. At least now,

00:25:49.620 you know, okay, like I'm going to talk about building a canoe. I'm going to talk about restoring

00:25:52.340 a barn. Like you, you don't have to do any work to figure things out. You could then talk about like,

00:25:56.100 Oh, I love this process with my son, whatever. So let's say that. So anyway, that's part of the

00:25:59.660 cold email is just be very specific in your ass, be very specific in your praise. Let's say you get

00:26:04.580 the meeting with the mentor. One of the things you can do, if you feel like you have nothing to add,

00:26:08.780 this is a practical thing that I've, I do and still do and push others to do following the

00:26:15.700 meeting. You know, you can send the handwritten note, do the thank you thing. That's, that's great

00:26:19.720 too, but send them an email. It could be a text. It could be an email, whatever. And say, Ryan,

00:26:26.080 I loved our meeting. Here are a few things I learned and kind of bullet point them out, whatever.

00:26:32.180 Here are a few things I'm going to take action on because of what you told me. So I'm very grateful.

00:26:40.600 So I'm showing I'm a good listener. I'm showing I'm an, an action-oriented person, right? A bias

00:26:44.960 for action. This is your, this is how you are. And then at the end, I realized, you know, you probably

00:26:51.400 are really busy and I'm not the only person you mentor. Go ahead and click forward on this email

00:26:58.020 and send it to anybody else that you mentor. So now me as the mentee, how have I added value?

00:27:03.580 One, I've documented their thoughts. As you know, as a busy guy, sometimes it's hard to document your

00:27:08.460 thoughts. You're in the middle of writing a book. So you're doing that, but you know, there are times

00:27:11.500 where it's hard. You may have given this amazing advice, but you didn't really think about it because

00:27:15.920 it just kind of ingrained in your mind. Now that person has documented it for you. Wow. You're grateful

00:27:20.560 for that too. You're happy that they're going to actually take action. You know, hopefully their words go,

00:27:25.480 but, but they've written it in the email. I'm going to take action three as the mentee. I'm

00:27:30.400 thinking about other people, right? I want to help other people. I'm making it easy. Go ahead,

00:27:35.320 click forward on this email. And this is the way I've actually met other people, other mentees of

00:27:40.640 a really kind of powerful person because they've clicked forward to say, Hey, I think this could help

00:27:45.060 you out too. And then that person sees my email. They email me and away we go. So this is, this is one

00:27:50.260 example. There are many, but that's one example of how someone who feels like they have no value

00:27:55.260 to add, or they have no experience or they have no knowledge base. That person can add value to a

00:28:00.740 much more powerful senior or more experienced person than them by just doing a little extra

00:28:05.940 work afterwards. Because as you know, most people don't follow up. You do all this, you do some

00:28:11.500 awesome stuff for them. They just like, they may say like, Oh, thanks, man. That was great. But they

00:28:14.700 don't really follow up. They don't take action. They don't necessarily take notes. And they certainly

00:28:17.980 don't take it a step further and say, Hey, go ahead. Let's try to help somebody else in the process

00:28:22.560 because I know you mentor more than just me. And I found that to be a really useful practice that

00:28:27.360 people seem to like. And I save all those emails. So I have like a bunch of documentation of things

00:28:33.060 that I've learned from really smart people. So I have all of that for myself as well. That comes out in

00:28:38.860 many different forms on podcasts, writing books, whatever it may be. So there's a lot of, a lot of

00:28:43.720 advantages and value to doing something like that, which is just one small example.

00:28:47.840 Yeah, man. I really appreciate what you're saying. Cause I can't tell you, you know, how often

00:28:53.520 somebody will ask for my advice or ask for input and then you give it to them. You don't hear

00:28:57.800 anything from them ever. And it's like, you know, just a little, a little giving back and telling me,

00:29:03.760 Hey, you implemented something goes such a long way, but there's also, there's another strategy

00:29:08.340 that I think a lot of guys can use and like buy people's stuff. That's a great, like you have a

00:29:16.620 couple of books. I have a book. You have a podcast. We all have courses. We all have programs. We all

00:29:22.060 have email series. We all have this. So if somebody buys, for example, the pursuit of excellence

00:29:26.520 and they want to get to know you, a great way to do it is to buy your book, read it, and then shoot

00:29:32.740 that email and say, Hey Ryan, in chapter three, you talked about focus and discipline. And you said

00:29:39.580 this one thing and shared the story. I have a very similar story. And, but I did have one follow-up

00:29:45.000 question. That's a great way to get you in the door. Cause it proves to me, okay, you're willing

00:29:50.600 to buy, you're willing to invest in me, which makes me a little bit more likely to invest in you

00:29:55.020 completely as well as it's helpful to see what resonates with people. Like, as you know,

00:30:00.440 in the book writing process, when you live in the material for a while, you, you can kind of forget

00:30:07.180 what's going to resonate most, or you don't really know. So I'll have that. I'll have people send me,

00:30:12.200 Hey, I read your book in here, like my notes and they'll send a couple of pages. That's very

00:30:16.700 valuable to me. It's super helpful for me to see what resonated with, with others. And it's a good

00:30:23.060 reminder because again, you're living in the material, especially if it's for a past book and

00:30:26.960 not the current one, that stuff's super valuable. And the chance, the likelihood of me responding is

00:30:31.300 a hundred percent. If you do that, it's a hundred percent. So, but let me ask you this,

00:30:35.980 cause you said somebody sent a couple of pages and I'm not trying to be arrogant when I say this at

00:30:40.520 all. I'm trying to give guys the best information I can here. When somebody would, if somebody sent

00:30:45.400 me an email with pages of notes, I wouldn't get to it, man. Like there's no way.

00:30:50.320 No, I mean like the attachment, the attachment of like a word doc to see like what resonated,

00:30:53.800 you can scan it like in two seconds. You know what I mean though? But like, I don't save that

00:30:58.060 like in my, my book folder or whatever to say like this would resonate. So I'll look at, I'm not

00:31:03.080 going to read a word for it, but I will look and see what resonated most. I'm not talking about

00:31:06.960 in the body of the email being pages long. No, that's not what I mean. I'm like, Hey,

00:31:11.380 see the attached document here are my notes. I really resonate. And then maybe they highlight

00:31:15.620 one thing in the body. So it's not too long to where you're not going to respond, but I'm with

00:31:20.540 you. Yeah. If it's, if there's the novel within the body, it's it's, I guess you could maybe get

00:31:26.640 lucky on the day when it's a slow day, but there aren't many of those. So for who it's probably not

00:31:30.380 going to happen. Like who's going to have, who has a slow day? Like the guy that has a slow day

00:31:35.840 is probably not the guy that you're really wanting to reach out to anyways.

00:31:39.940 You're right. You're right, dude. You're right.

00:31:41.720 So I always suggest to guys like, all right, get to the point, get to it quickly and ask me

00:31:47.260 something as succinctly as possible. Like, like for example, if you said to me, um, Hey, uh, what's

00:31:53.060 your one, what's the one best piece of advice you ever received? I'm less likely to answer that

00:31:58.380 then, Hey, I started this podcast, uh, and I'm having a hard time getting a hold of this individual

00:32:05.260 is there one specific question or sentence you've used to get people's attention?

00:32:10.460 Yep. Got it. I can, that I can answer, but I can't answer. Hey, what's the one piece? Cause

00:32:15.200 I don't know. I don't know what you're looking for. Well, as well as it's with specificity,

00:32:19.580 right? That question's very specific. That's what I say. Be specific in your praise and specific

00:32:23.860 in your ask. Like if, if there's something you like, what is it exactly? Like what's specifically

00:32:28.880 about it as well as your, your praise and your ask. I think it increases odds of a response

00:32:33.820 when, when you can do that. And obviously as succinctly as possible.

00:32:38.600 All right, man, let me hit the pause button on the conversation between Ryan and myself

00:32:42.120 for a minute. Exciting, exciting news. Uh, we just released our first two episodes of my son's

00:32:49.400 newest podcast called man in the making. We're building an empire over here guys. And, and my

00:32:54.420 son and I are having some, uh, incredibly powerful conversations about loss and grieving and girls

00:33:02.160 as he becomes more interested in them and discipline and drug and alcohol use and growing

00:33:07.140 up and being a man and just so many more insightful conversations that are conversations that you

00:33:13.220 likely want to be having with, with your boys. So if you're a father of a son, or, you know,

00:33:18.020 even if you're a single mother, uh, of a boy or boys, and you're trying to raise them on your

00:33:22.320 own, I think you're going to find a ton of value from what we offer in our father, son podcast

00:33:26.500 called man in the making. Now guys, we're getting a ton of positive feedback so far,

00:33:31.440 which is really what Brecken and I obviously like to hear. And if you've listened and enjoyed,

00:33:37.760 then please, if you would take a minute, leave him a five-star rating and review in order to get

00:33:43.320 the mass, the message to the masses. You can listen to that podcast, man in the making anywhere.

00:33:49.120 You're listening to this one right now. All you have to do is type in man in the making

00:33:52.320 in the search bar and you'll find it. Listen, listen with your boy, leave that rating and review

00:33:57.800 and help us get this, this word out again, man in the making podcast, two episodes live. Now,

00:34:03.860 another one coming out this Thursday, please do that. Uh, for now I'll get back to it with Ryan.

00:34:09.840 I like what you did in the book. You, you, you really broke it up into some pretty good parts.

00:34:13.880 So you talk about the build, the fuel and the chase. Um, and I, I naturally gravitate more towards

00:34:20.020 the build. I enjoy the building process. I enjoy seeing things grow, seeing things progress,

00:34:25.560 looking at my metrics, seeing those things improve. Uh, but, but I know a lot of guys get

00:34:30.500 hung up on the fuel component of it because I, and I don't entirely know what it is, but they just,

00:34:37.660 they get deflated. They run out of gas. Um, they, they don't have the fortitude maybe to continue to

00:34:45.960 drive on. Like what do you suggest to somebody as they're on this journey, this progress to continue

00:34:50.380 to fuel that progress for themselves? I think this is an individualistic thing, similar to what we said

00:34:56.200 at the beginning is I think, I mean, we've heard like the phrase fall in love with the process,

00:35:02.960 but the reason that I think that is miss said a lot is because there's a lot of truth in it. But,

00:35:09.460 but to me, uh, like somebody said, well, uh, friends who have regular jobs, I'll say like,

00:35:15.800 well, do you get to kind of take, take off around Christmas and new years? And I, I don't, I don't

00:35:21.300 want, I'm not trying to like sound weird, but I'll say, well, I do what I want to do every day.

00:35:27.560 So like, why would I want to take off from doing what I want to do? Like, I'm going to continue doing

00:35:31.820 it. Like it, am I not like meeting as much or doing some of the things that aren't as fun? No,

00:35:36.820 I'm not doing that, but yeah, change. Yeah. I'm still in my office every day. Um, working every

00:35:41.900 day, uh, at least for a part of the day, because this is the stuff that I would do. This is what

00:35:46.880 I did when I had a full-time job. Like I would yearn for these moments when I could work on the

00:35:52.140 stuff that I love, whether it's writing or preparing for a podcast or recording a podcast. So,

00:35:56.860 so to me, like, I think it really helps if, if like you think about like, this is, this is how I

00:36:04.000 measure, like if a kid wants to play a sport or not, when your kids have free time, what do they

00:36:09.320 choose to do? Right. And, and to me, that's a measure of, cause when I had free time as a kid,

00:36:15.480 what was I doing? I was throwing a football with my brother in the backyard. I was, I was shooting

00:36:19.740 baskets and football went on to become a huge part of my family's life. It still is. Yeah. And

00:36:26.320 that's what we chose to do without anyone saying anything to us when we had free time. Now,

00:36:30.540 what do I choose to do when I have free time? This I I'm, I'm preparing, I'm recording, I'm

00:36:35.980 writing, I'm, I'm, you know, filming videos, whatever. This is the stuff I would do if I had

00:36:40.140 free time. So to me, I think the fuel is the fact that like, I love the, the, the, the part that like

00:36:48.220 not everybody really sees. I love the preparing. I love the reading of the books. I love to crafting

00:36:54.520 questions. I love thinking about kind of the arc of how a conversation could go like that parts.

00:36:59.900 I love. So to me, if you again are doing whatever it is you're doing for this, this result you're

00:37:08.800 hoping for, I just don't know. I don't, I think it's too hard. It's too hard to continue at it.

00:37:15.700 If you don't have a love for kind of the daily actions of what it takes to potentially get that

00:37:20.180 result. So to me, that's, that's what it's all about is like, what do you do when you have free

00:37:24.440 time? And if you're fortunate to do that for a living, that, that I think gives you a better

00:37:30.220 chance, you know, like you left being a financial advisor guy, right. To do this, because I assume

00:37:35.760 this is what you did on your, during your free time. This is what you wanted to do. Right. I mean,

00:37:40.120 it's actually something, you know, maybe, I don't know. There's a follow-up question I had for you

00:37:47.660 on this one, but you know, for me personally, I, I was doing a podcast with my financial planning

00:37:53.900 practice and found out through that, that I really love podcasting, not so much the financial planning

00:37:59.580 stuff. So I made those pivots over about 15 months, maybe a little longer before I made the

00:38:06.260 shift to like finally go full time with this might've been slightly longer, maybe a year and

00:38:10.820 a half or so. So my follow-up question was, yeah. So to answer your question, I found the thing I

00:38:16.440 liked about it and just pursued that path more to answer your question. But the question I had for a

00:38:21.840 follow-up was what are your, what's your take on the debate between, you know, following your passion

00:38:28.440 and then just being passionate or at least committed to where you currently are. Where do you find that

00:38:35.780 balance? Is one better than the other? What's your thoughts on that? Cause, cause look, there's a

00:38:40.160 lot of guys who are listening. We're really unhappy with, or at least dissatisfied with where they are

00:38:45.480 in life. And, but they don't know what they want to do. Like there's no calling that they have outside

00:38:50.440 of what they're doing. They just know they're not happy or satisfied. Yeah. So, you know, as Scott

00:38:56.940 Galloway said on my podcast, the, the people who usually tell you to follow their, you follow your passion

00:39:01.560 are, are old rich dudes, um, who didn't necessarily follow their passion. They built a business and

00:39:07.560 sold it, or they have equity in that. So I, I, I understand the advice. Um, but I think of like

00:39:14.320 the first job I ever had, I was an inside sales rep for a company called LexisNexis. So I had a

00:39:19.820 cubicle. I was making 60 to 70 cold calls a day. Was that my passion? Of course not. But I actually

00:39:27.360 grew to really be passionate about the work because there were stack rankings, there was

00:39:34.180 unlimited uncapped compensation. Um, so small base salary, but huge upside. Um, and I became

00:39:42.040 passionate about my team, the people that I was surrounded by as well as landing and being at the

00:39:47.620 top of the stack ranking. So I wasn't passionate about the product or even passionate about the

00:39:52.180 company, but I was passionate about achievement and improvement and growth and winning awards.

00:39:59.640 Like that stuff was juice for me. Um, and so whatever it is, I think it's, it's more about like

00:40:05.020 getting really good at whatever it is, the thing that you're doing. And that's where the passion will

00:40:10.700 come in. So you like get good at it first. The, the cool thing I think for you and I, that is a little

00:40:16.440 different from the guys who may be listening, who don't necessarily love their job or whatever

00:40:20.800 they're doing is we happen to work really hard to get good at whatever we were doing and get some

00:40:27.700 passion for that. And then shifted into something else that was actually kind of a love of, of

00:40:35.260 podcasting, speaking, writing all of that. So in a way we get to do that. I realized not everybody

00:40:41.320 gets to do that. My whole thing with, with, with that is try like crazy to get really good because if

00:40:46.760 you build the habits of becoming excellent at anything, I think those habits can transfer.

00:40:51.260 You can transfer those habits into something else. And so, yes, was I passionate about making 60 to

00:40:57.740 70 cold calls a day for a product that was kind of a commodity, right? It was good. It's a good

00:41:02.620 company and they treated me really well. And the pay was good. When, if you did well, not passionate

00:41:07.440 at all about any of that stuff, I don't really care, but I was passionate about doing great work.

00:41:11.620 I was passionate about becoming excellent at my current role. I was passionate about potentially

00:41:16.300 getting promoted and getting my own team to kind of run and being able to pick my players and that

00:41:20.920 type of thing. So that's where the passion came. It kind of came after the fact of getting good,

00:41:25.320 not before it. Yeah. Well, you know, I also think there's a, a dirty little secret I'm going to share

00:41:31.480 with, with some of the guys here. Here's what a lot of people will say, Hey Ryan, can you just

00:41:37.120 interview like ordinary guys? And I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? You know, they're like,

00:41:41.800 Oh, I have a hard time relating with these, these people that you have on the podcast. Cause they're

00:41:45.680 at the pinnacle of their achievement. And, and I tell these guys, like they're all ordinary,

00:41:49.940 you know, all you, me, anybody else that I'm, we're all ordinary guys. Maybe we just do something

00:41:55.180 a little bit extraordinary. You know, maybe we do it long enough or we excel at one particular area

00:42:00.700 and we really dive into that. But to give an example, you know, the book writing process,

00:42:05.520 I don't know how you feel about it personally. I know everybody's different. I actually, I find it

00:42:10.080 to be a miserable, miserable thing. Like I don't, I don't like sitting in front of my computer

00:42:16.000 and writing. I don't, I put me in front of a microphone, put me in front of a video camera.

00:42:21.260 Sure. All day long, put me in front of a word processing or word editing software. No, but you know

00:42:28.140 what? None of that matters how I feel about it because what matters is putting the content out there.

00:42:34.040 And I find value in putting the content out there and that outweighs the disdain I have for the

00:42:39.740 writing process. Right. I like having written. I don't like writing. Sure. Yeah. I think that's

00:42:45.480 what it is. I like, I like the result that, but I know what it takes to get the result and just like

00:42:51.200 I'm willing to do it and you're willing to do it. There are parts of the process I enjoy.

00:42:56.940 But the reason I don't know about you, the reason that I write books and will continue to write books

00:43:01.080 is because it's so hard. It's so hard to sit there and do that every day and be consistent and show up.

00:43:10.580 And there's, I don't know if we're sick or something's wrong with us, but that aspect of

00:43:14.920 it is why it's so attractive to me because I love the challenge as well as I'm a, I love reading books.

00:43:21.780 So, um, I love that part and I love in a way like having a physical kind of documentation of what I

00:43:29.940 was thinking in that moment to me. Yeah. Like that's the coolest thing is that there, I look at

00:43:35.780 my first book and I'm like, Oh man, like there are parts of it. I don't agree with. And that was just

00:43:39.620 a few years ago. And I think that's the way it should be where you, you kind of, you grow and you

00:43:44.580 learn more and like, well, you know, like the foundational kind of core value things, those don't

00:43:50.140 necessarily change, but there are parts and elements of the stories that I don't always agree

00:43:54.140 with all parts of it. That to me though, is, is the coolest part is like, I want to regularly document

00:43:59.300 what was going on in my life, what I was thinking at that time, what I was learning. And so that's why

00:44:03.880 I like the process of the fact that it's really hard. Um, I don't love it all the time, but I do

00:44:11.700 love kind of the outcome that comes from showing up in, in a way, like, don't you like proving to

00:44:16.500 yourself that you can do hard stuff? Like you move your family, there's a level of pride that

00:44:20.920 comes with, you move your family across the country, you build barns and boats and host people

00:44:25.740 and do all these crazy things that if 2015, what would you think of yourself? I'm curious, man.

00:44:31.080 What would you think of yourself? If you're in 2015, we're like, Hey dude, in like six, seven years,

00:44:34.420 you're going to have hosted thousands of people. You're going to move across the country and have

00:44:38.740 the big house and, and, and, and, and all the stuff that you've created. What would you think?

00:44:44.620 Would you have said like, nah, there's no way or yeah, I'm going to keep at it. And I think that's

00:44:48.300 realistic. I look, let me say this first and foremost, you make me sound way cooler than I

00:44:53.900 actually am. Like I don't build barns. Yeah. We're putting together a canoe. Like let's, let's be real

00:44:58.960 here, guys. Like I'm not seeing it, dude. I watch you do a lot more. I don't build anything. Like I

00:45:03.600 try to build a business. I know you're building all this stuff. I'm amazed by it. Maybe because out of

00:45:07.760 like, dude, I don't know how you do that stuff. Look, here's what I would say is I don't know that this

00:45:13.600 was the path. If you asked me five, six years later or earlier, I don't know if this was the

00:45:18.720 path I thought I'd be on, but I'm not surprised. Like in that, and that I'm not surprised I'm

00:45:24.400 successful in that. And that a lot of people are going to hear that and think, well, that's really

00:45:28.220 arrogant. Maybe, maybe it is. Dude, I had a track record of winning. Like I was doing well in my

00:45:34.200 financial planning practice. I had failed a lot with my relationship and built that to, to be more

00:45:39.000 intimate and connected with my wife. And so, yeah, maybe I wasn't on this path, but I think

00:45:44.320 the lesson here is you don't have to prove yourself to be the best in order to go down that

00:45:49.760 path. Like we got a lot of other opportunities and, and, and past successes that we can draw upon

00:45:55.720 and say, well, look, I was a, I was a success here. So like I can see, you said it earlier. I can see

00:46:00.860 how that would be translatable. So at the risk of sounding arrogant, I'm not surprised things are going

00:46:05.480 well. Uh, I just wouldn't have imagined it would be on this path. I, I had an interview one day with

00:46:10.980 a guy I was a member at a Starbucks and this guy was like a head of a company and he was, uh, he

00:46:16.460 wanted to hire me to leave the company I was at. And he said, I, and I, and I like to kind of like

00:46:20.620 ask questions during those, um, especially when you have some leverage where they, they want you to go.

00:46:25.180 And I said, well, like, what is it? Like I was still kind of early. And, and he said,

00:46:30.600 I hire people who have had success in multiple life categories because I'm certain they'll figure

00:46:39.420 out a way to, to make it happen at my place of work. And I've never forgotten that where he's

00:46:44.900 like, if you, you, you know, whether it's on the athletic field and then in the business world and,

00:46:49.840 and podcasting, but whatever it may be, because you have kind of a, uh, this kind of mindset and

00:46:55.980 these foundational kind of belief system of, of getting up and going to work and finding a way

00:47:03.640 and figuring it out and not complaining or making excuses. If you have that mentality and that

00:47:09.420 mindset, and then I, I pick you up and I sit you down over in this job or this other thing here,

00:47:14.920 my guess is you'll probably figure it out. You may gather up the people who you need to help you out.

00:47:20.620 You may like, you know, do some of the things on the side. You'll work extra hours if that's what's

00:47:25.120 called for. Right. That. And so I'm, I feel that way. Exactly. Like I look at, I look at that when

00:47:30.400 I've been making hiring decisions and I've seen people have success in multiple life categories.

00:47:34.760 I'm like, they'll probably find a way they'll probably find a way. And I think when you say

00:47:39.120 like, I'm not surprised, like that's, that's you, your belief in yourself. I love that, man.

00:47:44.100 I think that's awesome. I don't think it's arrogant. I think it's realistic. I think it's being honest

00:47:48.600 with yourself and it's also being authentic, being willing to say it. Cause it's probably in your head

00:47:53.660 and if it's in your head and you hold back, then it's not fully kind of being you. And

00:47:57.760 I don't, um, I'd rather, I'd rather like you be your full authentic self. I think we all want that.

00:48:03.860 Well, and I, and I think that there's a natural tendency to dismiss and downplay that and maybe

00:48:08.520 not even vocalize it because we're not so consumed. Well, we're not as consumed, I should say

00:48:15.220 with being excellent ourselves as much as we are making sure that other people are comfortable

00:48:19.440 with our level of success. So maybe we don't shine as brightly or we don't work as hard or we don't

00:48:26.500 talk about the successes that we have as much as we have a desire to maybe because we're worried about

00:48:32.460 how it may make somebody who's underperforming feel. But I don't feel like that at all. Like

00:48:38.600 if, if that, if what I say about my own level of success makes you uncomfortable, good. Like I

00:48:44.420 actually want you to be uncomfortable. Maybe you'll actually do something about your life and

00:48:49.220 you have everything at your disposal to be able to do it. So maybe all you needed was somebody to

00:48:54.940 tell the truth about the fact that you can be successful and you don't have to settle for

00:48:59.020 mediocrity. One of the questions I had for you, I was thinking about this because it's something I

00:49:02.640 really am not good at and struggle with. I don't, and maybe you can, you can point to a time in

00:49:08.540 your career or in this kind of building of order of man that, that you can say, like you really

00:49:13.360 kind of turn it on. I think you are fearless when it comes to having a point of view and being okay

00:49:21.840 with the fact that people are going to dislike you, um, and disagree with you and maybe leave

00:49:28.220 because you're like, this is what I believe in because that to me is hard. Like I'm, I struggle

00:49:34.960 with this and I feel like you have figured this out where you're like, I'm going to say what I believe.

00:49:39.800 Some people are going to leave. They're going to cut out of whether it's iron council or the

00:49:44.820 Facebook group or whatever it may be, but this is what I believe. And I'm going to stand for

00:49:48.520 something. And I think I struggle with that still. I'm curious. Was there like a moment or a point

00:49:53.940 where you just said, Hey, you know what, dude, I'm just, I'm just gonna, I'm just doing that.

00:49:58.940 I'm going here. I'm not trying to kind of like sit on the fence or like get everybody to like me.

00:50:04.200 Like I'm not, and I think most people do that and I struggle with this. So when was that moment?

00:50:08.540 Like how did, how, how did you get over that? Because I think that's really hard.

00:50:13.260 I don't know, man. I don't know if there was, well, you said it seemed to be fearless and that's

00:50:17.180 certain. That's not the case. I know that's not the case. Like every time I make a post or share,

00:50:22.640 you're scared of you. Oh, all the time. I wish I could say it wasn't. Yeah. I wish I could say I

00:50:28.820 wasn't, but what, when, when I put a book out or a podcast or, um, make a post on social media,

00:50:35.060 I'm like, man, people aren't going to like this. Like that's, that's actually something that crosses

00:50:38.560 my mind. But here's what I will say is that the importance of serving the people who could be served

00:50:46.480 by what I would share outweighs the fear that I have that somebody may not like it. And, and to

00:50:54.860 me, I'm so convicted in this work, just like I know you're convicted in your work that I can have

00:51:02.480 fear, but I can't let it dictate it because that means that there's going to be a dad who's not

00:51:08.300 going to be as good of a father, or there's going to be a husband who's not going to be as engaged

00:51:12.360 with his wife, or there's going to be a business owner who doesn't know how to serve his employees

00:51:16.480 and clients, or there's going to be a community leader who doesn't know how to step up within the

00:51:20.320 walls of his, his neighborhood and his community and cities. And so all that requires is for me

00:51:25.920 to get over myself because fear is selfish, man. I'm going to, I'm going to take that bet all day

00:51:30.760 long. I love to hear that. What, what do the, what do your friends think of you now who were friends

00:51:39.080 with you before all of this got going? You're, you're, you're flipping this podcast around now.

00:51:44.820 I'm just curious, dude, because I feel like we've been on very similar paths.

00:51:48.380 I'm just saying it's funny. Well, we've talked, we've talked, you're one of the few guys who I've

00:51:54.280 talked to from the beginning of this, where we kept in touch, you know, messaging and all that

00:51:58.820 stuff. We've both recorded with each other. So like, that's not, cause I think about this too,

00:52:02.360 for like my friends who are from before this, like it's sometimes it's a little weird. Like it's

00:52:06.100 different. Like some people it's not at all and others they're, it's like weird. It's just changed

00:52:10.420 a little bit. Like what, what, how about for you? I think everybody, maybe I'm delusional.

00:52:14.840 Everybody that I know is supportive. So maybe, you know, and I think they appreciate the growth,

00:52:20.420 but look, I don't ever hide it either. Like I know I was a dumb ass, you know, I know I was full of

00:52:25.720 shit. I know that I was fat and overweight and out of shape. And I know I was a loser and I know I

00:52:31.220 wasn't good to my wife and my kid. Like, I know all that. Like, I never ran away from that. I share

00:52:36.180 that every day. I tell those, these guys all the time. And so when guys, you know, a buddy might

00:52:41.280 bring up, you know, jokingly about my past, I'm like, yeah, you remember that time I passed out

00:52:46.180 drunk and couldn't remember the night before. Yeah. Like I'm not, I'm not trying to hide from

00:52:51.440 that. That was right. But you've like transformed though. Like you've transformed it for sure.

00:52:55.900 Right. And aren't we supposed to, you know, you hear guys who will say things like, well, Ryan,

00:52:59.480 you know, you've really changed. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Cause if you haven't over 10 years,

00:53:04.880 like, what are you doing with your life? I agree, man. And that's why I think like

00:53:08.880 sometimes a measure of growth is that like, you just kind of grow apart from certain people who

00:53:15.020 do not want to be on that path or who God forbid, maybe are kind of even going the other way

00:53:20.980 and letting things go and being what you just said you used to be there like that now.

00:53:26.380 And that happens every once in a while, but in a way it's like a signal. It's a, it's a,

00:53:30.820 it's a marker. It's a reminder that growth is just different. Not everybody loves. I just had

00:53:36.280 Stan Johnson on a coach of a loyal Marymont and LA great dude. And that's what he said. He was

00:53:42.280 talking a lot about the fact of the growth sometimes scares people. Growth is, is different for everyone.

00:53:48.180 And at times you kind of grow apart from those who are just not on that path. And I think that's

00:53:55.740 what I meant by that question that, that there are some, some relationships where you may have

00:54:01.340 known them for a really long time. And I don't think it means like, you're not a loyal person.

00:54:04.820 I just think it means sometimes you just grow to different places. And I've, I've, I've felt that

00:54:10.660 a little bit over the past few years. So do you have a hard time then letting go of, of things in

00:54:16.380 the past, whether it's friendships or behaviors and relationships? Is that, has that been a challenge

00:54:23.620 for you? I just think about it. I think, and it's like, this is why when someone says the value of

00:54:28.560 loyalty, I'm, I'm always curious, like what that means for people, because I sometimes think,

00:54:33.580 think, am I not loyal since we've been friends for a really long time, but we're clearly on different

00:54:40.700 growth paths right now. And we have been for the last few years. Does that make me not a loyal person?

00:54:46.700 And I, I asked myself that and I'm wondering, I'm like, maybe I'm not to, to, to, you know what I

00:54:51.960 mean? Like, I'm curious, what do you think about that for someone who you've known for a really long

00:54:55.580 time, but you're clearly not headed in the same direction. Does that make you not a loyal person

00:55:00.640 to them? Well, I think most people are waiting for other people to do things. So here's a great

00:55:06.420 example. You reached, reached out to me several months ago about the book and I messaged you back

00:55:10.960 and said, yeah, let's do it. But we hadn't talked for a long time actually before that, you know? And so I

00:55:16.020 think, I think knee jerk reaction, a lot of people would say, oh, well, you know, he's just reaching out

00:55:20.480 because he wants something, right? That's what people would say. Sure. And, but, but I, but

00:55:25.400 successful people don't do that. I don't think, at least in my experience, like I didn't judge you

00:55:30.720 for that. I was like, oh yeah, he's got a book. He wants to promote it. That's awesome. And we

00:55:34.980 haven't talked because I'm busy and he's busy. And if I felt like I wanted to talk with him or needed

00:55:40.640 to talk, why is it his responsibility to reach out to me? Like, why wouldn't I reach out to him?

00:55:45.440 Yeah. You know? So like, but, but that's a successful mindset. You know, a loser mindset

00:55:51.880 is like, well, you know, he'll, he didn't care about me and he didn't, well, when's the last time

00:55:55.680 you reached out to somebody else? Well, no, cause I've been busy. Yeah. So you're excusing your

00:56:00.560 behavior, but you're looking at somebody else through a different type of judgment lens that

00:56:06.280 you're not willing to look at yourself through. It's not a right thing to do. Yeah. It's a really

00:56:11.140 good point, man. I liked kind of the ownership mentality there, right? You're owning, you're

00:56:16.380 owning the part of it. And I think, I think, I think too, with those relate, like we have a

00:56:20.980 relationship, like it goes back many years now where it's like, yeah, I mean, I was, I tried to

00:56:26.300 be very clear, like got a book coming out. I'd love to talk to you about it. You have, you have a massive

00:56:29.600 audience. It would be great. And I enjoy talking to you. So it's like, win, win, win, hopefully,

00:56:35.080 hopefully I can add some value to the audience's life. But yeah, I think I'm with you. It's like,

00:56:39.120 there's, and I also am a believer too of this. There is so, there is plenty out there for all

00:56:45.100 of us to win. Plenty. This abundance mindset, I feel like I've learned over the years. There is so

00:56:52.440 much out there, like even in like the keynote speaking world, I always am trying to like get

00:56:57.800 people on stages, like friends and others who are doing it. There are plenty of stages and plenty

00:57:02.860 of opportunities for all of us to kill it. That's, that's the way that, that winning happens

00:57:09.480 is like, let's try to help one another. And I think the same way with, with you or whatever.

00:57:14.140 And, and because like, I'm just a big fan, man, I'm a big fan of what you've done because I admire

00:57:18.960 people who put their head down and work because I think it's rare. And, uh, that's another reason

00:57:23.960 too, that I'm like, I'm like, dude, I'm just, I'm a fan of a guy who puts his head down and really

00:57:28.280 works at it for many years and, and, and then, you know, sees the difference he's making in the

00:57:33.620 lives of so many people. Well, I think that's another, you're, you're, you're touching on

00:57:39.400 the value that you can add in addition to what you already talked about is, you know, if there's

00:57:44.700 an opportunity this weekend to, to speak and you've already got to have, you already have a speaking

00:57:48.840 engagement and I don't, I don't speak a lot in public. So I know you're, you're obviously way more

00:57:54.220 versed in that. Um, and you can't do it. Like, why wouldn't you give that opportunity to somebody

00:58:00.500 you care about? Like talk about a way to add values. Like, like you wouldn't, I wouldn't just

00:58:05.000 say, Hey, sorry to the venue. I can't make it. I'd say, Oh, you know, I'm sorry. I can't make it,

00:58:09.700 but I've got three guys who I think would do an exceptional job.

00:58:13.360 Or maybe they want something that is not really in my wheelhouse, but it is in yours.

00:58:18.100 Sure. Boom. Right. Great opportunity to go like, I'm not going to say, Oh yeah, I could

00:58:22.440 talk about something that I don't know a lot about, but I know like three or four people that are

00:58:27.000 world-class. Well, you should talk to them and have them do it then. Like that's the part of you,

00:58:32.500 by the way, do you want to, do you want to do that more? You just don't want to do that. You

00:58:35.360 don't want to be traveling around. I don't like to travel that much. Frankly, that's, that's the

00:58:39.700 biggest thing is I just don't enjoy. I want to be here with my kids and my wife and do podcasts and

00:58:45.840 have guys come to events. That's like what I want to do. What's your event schedule for 2022? Like

00:58:51.720 how are, what are you going to do? Most, most of our events happen in the fall just because it's

00:58:56.480 cold at any other time. So they happen in the fall. You know, we've got three or four different

00:59:01.960 events scheduled. We've got one late spring event scheduled. So we've got like four or five events

00:59:05.640 here next year. It's going to be wild. So I love having guys here. I love that a hundred percent

00:59:10.480 as far as going other places, not something I particularly enjoy. In your books, September

00:59:14.960 ish. Is that right? That's, and that's going to be part of the deal is traveling around and doing

00:59:19.860 podcasts and doing interviews. And I'm like, Oh, dreading that part of it. Yeah, dude. How's

00:59:26.100 it going with the writing? Like I thought, I thought, so I just posted, you're kind of halfway

00:59:30.020 through. Are you? Yeah. Halfway. It's, it's good. You know, I, I write, I was going to ask you how

00:59:36.500 you write, but I write at least a thousand words per day. That's my goal. Wow. Without exception.

00:59:42.620 Yeah. And so I'll write the book in a little over 60 days. That's, that's my goal. Um,

00:59:50.560 cause I can't do it any other way. I just, I can't draw, draw it out. I can't like have a book.

00:59:56.700 Are you a big outliner? Are you, do you have a big outline to kind of, to get you started or what?

01:00:01.120 I have a good outline and then, and then I write and then it changes as I write. I'm like, Oh,

01:00:05.540 like I had five chapters that I actually just got rid of completely just yesterday. I'm like,

01:00:12.160 I don't, I don't have the space for that. I don't, I don't want to go that deep. It doesn't fit. And so

01:00:16.680 I pulled a bunch of stuff out. So it morphs over time. How do you, but how do you write? Do you,

01:00:21.760 do you do it differently when I'm in like, okay, it's time to go. It is, it is a seven day a week,

01:00:28.160 every day thing of I'm sitting down and like, there's usually like two different times of day. So

01:00:33.420 I like it to be right when I wake up. So, you know, stretch and drink some water and then get

01:00:39.060 to it for at least like, even if it's like 30 to 40 minutes to, to make sure there's not a blank

01:00:43.820 page. I'm also a stop in the middle of a sentence writer, which I read, I learned from other writers,

01:00:48.720 which is essentially never start from a blank page. So I always try to stop in the, stop in the

01:00:54.720 middle of, even if it's in the middle of a story, because I know I could pick it back up. And then

01:00:59.620 if there's something like, I don't want to, if there's something I don't want to forget, I will

01:01:03.120 always be taking notes like on my phone or writing it down to make sure I have the notes. So I don't

01:01:07.640 forget something that could be a cool story, but then I'm also like the research process happens

01:01:12.340 before and during. So I'm constantly out there looking for stories, for ideas. I'm obviously

01:01:16.860 drawing from my podcast and then trying to create the narrative off of, okay, I'm a story. I'm a story,

01:01:23.340 science, practical application speaker and writer. So whether it's on stage, there's the story to grab you.

01:01:28.940 The science proves that the story is true and the practical application answers the question.

01:01:33.620 So what, why should I care? How does this impact my life? So if you speak and write that way,

01:01:38.760 that that's like a good kind of process for me to try. I don't get it right all the time,

01:01:43.640 obviously, but that's like the, the, the, the goal, the method for me. And so if you look at the

01:01:49.020 bits within this latest one, like the, the best ones, um, kind of follow that. Um, not all of them do,

01:01:56.280 but for the most part, that's what I try to do. But yeah, I have to do it every day. I keep track

01:01:59.920 of it. I send it to a writing coach. So like, there's an accountability part of that as well.

01:02:04.480 I, you know, I, I, I send it, I hire an editor to help me before I send it to the official editor

01:02:10.000 at my publisher McGraw Hill. So like all those things I try to do. And then I, you know, give it a

01:02:15.760 last pass before it goes to the full blown real editors, I guess you'd call them, but it's a process,

01:02:22.000 man. Like, like, that's why, like we said, like, it's so hard to do it. Well, um, that's,

01:02:27.800 that's kind of the attraction, right. In a way, like I'm attracted to try to do in the hard stuff

01:02:32.120 that, that, um, it just really pushes me. It really challenges me to do it. And that's why I

01:02:38.060 like to, to, to, to, to kind of push my edges in a way to, to be doing that. Yeah. I think anybody

01:02:43.400 who's successful is probably going to push towards those things that they aren't comfortable with.

01:02:47.520 Uh, you and I actually do a very similar to that. And like, I, I never heard of that

01:02:51.520 stop in the middle of a sentence or a story. I like that idea. Um, one thing I did to help me,

01:02:56.680 because I know that if I, if I come to a blank plate page, it's going to take me a lot longer

01:03:00.740 to ramp up and get those words and get the momentum going for the day. So what I typically do is I'll

01:03:06.560 stop at the end of the story. I'm like what you just talked about. Uh, but before I close my computer

01:03:11.700 for the day, I'll usually put three to five prompts on the screen, bullet points of things I

01:03:16.600 need to talk about tomorrow, whatever the chapter I'm on. So similar, like getting,

01:03:21.540 like getting ahead of it a little bit, like creating like whatever, whatever process you

01:03:26.100 need to create to, to, to start like running, as opposed to this slog that sometimes happens

01:03:32.300 in the writing process where you're sitting, you're like, Oh my God, I don't know what I'm

01:03:35.700 going to do here. But like, if you, if you help, like it's like the, the friction is like James

01:03:40.680 clear talks about is, is, is kind of lacing up the shoes and starting the run. Once you're running,

01:03:45.320 you can usually continue to run. It's a little easier at least. And I mean, I know it hurts,

01:03:49.840 but you can keep going because you built momentum. The same thing I think with writing is like trying

01:03:54.020 to figure out ways so that you're not just sitting there, ice cold, lacing up the shoes,

01:03:58.540 getting started. You want to try to start mid run in a way I view writing that way. Cause it's,

01:04:04.260 cause it's hard. It's just really hard to do it in, in compelling fashion, but it's, I think it's

01:04:08.740 super rewarding when you can, you know, have that physical artifact of this is, this is what I was

01:04:14.780 thinking at this time. And I was willing to kind of put it out there for others to judge. Cause

01:04:18.840 people, as you know, they're not afraid to write bad reviews on Goodreads or Amazon. Like they're

01:04:24.080 not afraid. And, and those hurt, I'm not going to lie. Like at times they hurt, but in a way

01:04:27.840 it's good. It's good for you to say like, okay, this is, this is, this is like some honest feedback

01:04:32.540 from people on the work that you kind of had the guts to. I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I

01:04:37.080 agree with that because like, I don't know those people, like they have no credibility with me.

01:04:42.960 You know, they might be true. They might be right. I'm not saying they they're wrong.

01:04:46.500 I'm just saying that they, I don't know their motives. And so I have to take everything they

01:04:51.940 say with a grain of salt, but I'll tell you what, somebody who I really respect and trust,

01:04:57.000 like my wife, for example, um, I'll usually write for a couple of days and I'll say, Hey,

01:05:02.260 can I read some things that I wrote? And she's like, yeah, she, I don't know that she particularly

01:05:06.400 enjoys it, but she's willing to entertain it. And so I'll read it to her and she's like, Oh,

01:05:10.780 it sounds really good. I'm like, okay, thank you. Now. Can I have the real feedback? And then she

01:05:16.440 says, I like this. I don't like this. That story didn't make sense. Or I don't really understand

01:05:21.900 what you were saying or what point you were trying to make, but I know her motive because her interest

01:05:26.880 and my interests are aligned. And so I know intimately what her motive is. And therefore I

01:05:32.320 can take constructive criticism, fully embrace that because I know that she's coming from the right

01:05:39.640 place. But I don't know that about somebody who leads a review on Amazon. That's a good point.

01:05:44.160 I think that that's, that's, it's, it's better to really, when I think about like feedback,

01:05:48.800 like I really value it from those who I know are aligned with me. Right. I know they want the same

01:05:55.400 thing that I want. Or at least they care about you. Right. Right. Right. They, they, they care enough

01:06:01.380 because I think feedback's hard. And I try to be that for my friends too. The ones that I really

01:06:06.460 admire and respect if it's happened recently, a friend of mine was like, he's, he's, you know,

01:06:11.000 making this very video series for LinkedIn. And, uh, uh, I was like, well, do I be nice or do I tell

01:06:18.340 him the truth? And I think, I think I owe it to him because I care about him. I need to tell him

01:06:23.340 the truth. Right. And it may sting a little bit, but you know how to get, cause that's what I would

01:06:28.740 want. And that's what I owe him as a friend of mine who I really care about. And I want things to go

01:06:33.220 well for him. So I had to give him the, the, the kind of the criticism. He took it great,

01:06:37.980 but I think at times we're a little hesitant to do that. And I thought about it for a second and I

01:06:42.840 thought, well, no, like I want the real feedback. I don't want the nice feedback. Um, and, and so I,

01:06:49.120 I, I like your mindset there. It's something I could probably get better at too, of not reading the

01:06:54.480 one where they, where they write something negative and you're like, Oh man, I want all the reviews to be

01:06:59.460 good. But in reality, it's not going to happen. It just doesn't work that way.

01:07:04.860 Well, you use, I think you use the right word too. It's nice. You know, everybody's so focused

01:07:08.580 on being nice and nice to me is you want people to feel good. You don't want to hurt anybody's

01:07:13.380 feelings. You want the world to just operate beautifully and everybody to be in this, you

01:07:17.760 know, euphoric state that, that, that doesn't help anybody, you know, that doesn't make anybody

01:07:23.460 better. And so I think there's a better word and it's kind, you know, kind is if you're asking me,

01:07:29.760 for example, for constructive criticism or feedback, I can be kind and still be truthful.

01:07:36.020 Like I can soften the blow. I can, I can deliver it in a way that's effective that I know is going

01:07:41.360 to land and resonate with you. I don't need to be an asshole about it. So I can be kind, but still,

01:07:46.080 because in the long run, what's more kind you lying to somebody and letting them flop on their face,

01:07:52.160 or are you telling them the truth because you care about them and then, then making some pivots

01:07:56.260 and they succeed because you were kind enough to tell them the truth. And you weren't so wrapped up

01:08:01.060 in being nice and being overly concerned with people's feelings. And that's a big problem with

01:08:06.460 modern culture today. Well, it's actually really selfish. It would have been selfish of me

01:08:12.180 not to tell him the truth because I was putting my needs ahead of his. I was more worried about him

01:08:19.940 liking me than I was about actually helping him. And so I think the best teams that I've ever been

01:08:26.300 on, whether it's sports or business, whatever, they weren't selfish in a way where they cared

01:08:31.860 more about what you thought of me versus just telling them the truth. It's like my friend,

01:08:36.340 Brooke Cupps, a great basketball coach who I love, and he's become a really valued friend of mine.

01:08:41.740 And that's his basketball team won a state championship last year. And that was,

01:08:45.140 that's a big motto in their program is it's selfish of me not to hold you to our standards

01:08:51.500 as a teammate. And I think then the score for him has taken care of, taken care of itself.

01:08:57.780 And that's the way I would view is it is selfish. It's a selfish act, not do it in a kind way for

01:09:04.180 sure. But if you have a standard or, and they're not living up to that, uh, or they go against your

01:09:10.120 values or they ask you for feedback on a book or a video or whatever, and you don't tell them the

01:09:16.560 truth when you know the truth could help them and would help them, that's a selfish act. And that's

01:09:21.160 not, I don't think that's a way to behave. Well said. I mean, there's also ways to cater your

01:09:26.240 message in a way that will land. You've got five kids. I've got four kids. I think about that with

01:09:30.980 each of my kids. You know, I can get my oldest son's face and say, Hey man, this is what's wrong.

01:09:35.840 And he's like, got it. Check. I'll, I'll fix it. And, but if I did that to my youngest son,

01:09:42.160 he's going to laugh in my face and then go out of his way to like spite me on purpose because he's a

01:09:48.760 little rebel. And so I need to approach him and his personality different. So the way I give feedback,

01:09:55.200 the way that I offer discipline, the way that I offer structure as a father, although I'm trying

01:10:00.460 to get them all to a similar place, I I'm mature enough to cater that based on what the person

01:10:06.400 needs from me. What do you, uh, I know you've talked about this, but I'm curious just to talk

01:10:11.180 about it now. Like when it came to your son, wrecking your oldest son, um, kind of like how

01:10:15.700 he transformed his body. And this could be a really touchy subject in America today with guys,

01:10:21.680 girls and everything in between. Yeah. That only comes though, from within, like he had to be

01:10:26.200 intrinsically motivated to a hundred percent. I think it really helps though, to have probably

01:10:31.800 people like you and your wife in his life. What, what advice do you give to someone who has a kid

01:10:36.780 who maybe needs to make some sort of transformation physically, because it's just more healthy. Um,

01:10:42.940 which again, I know people seem to be afraid to talk about, like we need to work out and eat healthy

01:10:47.020 food in order to, especially if we need to go to the COVID place, but that I had COVID, like,

01:10:51.600 I think that helped me beat it pretty quick was I work out and try to eat decent,

01:10:55.380 but like for a kid, what, what was like your overall mindset that helped, helped him make the

01:11:01.640 choice to, to transform himself? Just honesty. That's it. Like, what do you mean? Like, well,

01:11:09.280 so he came to us, uh, one day and he said, dad, I'm, I'm not feeling good about my weight. Like I feel

01:11:15.780 fat. And I didn't say, oh no, you're okay. And you're special the way you are. And don't worry about

01:11:21.040 that. Cause that's a lie. Like he was fat. And so I said, he came to you first and said that he

01:11:27.340 came to us. Yeah. Because he wasn't confident. Like we knew it, he knew it, he hadn't vocalized

01:11:33.840 it, but everybody knew it. And we tried to foster an environment where they can tell us things free

01:11:40.780 of judgment. You know, we still have to administer discipline and structure. Sure. Um, but at one point

01:11:46.900 he felt comfortable enough to tell it, tell us, and I didn't say, you know, it's okay. I said,

01:11:51.760 yeah, you know, you are getting a little heavy and I can see why you would feel uncomfortable and

01:11:56.280 lacking confidence. So what are you going to do about it? Like it was never like soften the blow.

01:12:02.780 It was never, it's okay. We'll, we'll help you. Or maybe we need to go have a, have a therapist or

01:12:09.500 something like that. That wasn't appropriate in that moment, but what was appropriate is saying,

01:12:15.080 yeah, I, I agree with you and I'm glad that you recognize it. And so there's, is something that

01:12:21.900 needs to be done. What are you going, it's your problem. It's not my problem. What are you going

01:12:27.100 to do about it? He says, well, I'd like to work out. I'd like to eat better. And I'm like, great.

01:12:31.200 Not good enough. Like what workouts, what kind of food? And so we started working out and doing

01:12:36.720 CrossFit with, with his mom. Cause she mostly does CrossFit. I train a lot of jujitsu now at this point.

01:12:41.520 Um, and then we just started eating better. He made those choices, but 99% of it was on him,

01:12:47.600 but we never enabled poor behavior or lied to him about how healthy he was or wasn't. Like we're

01:12:53.320 really truthful with him again, in a kind way that would resonate with him. Wow. That's awesome,

01:12:59.460 man. I, I, I, um, cause I, I have to imagine like the, the confidence level of like, it just

01:13:06.640 change. It's like life changing. Uh, I would imagine. Absolutely. And then to see him now,

01:13:11.160 you know, it was hard. It was hard to tell him that because you don't want to see your kids suffer.

01:13:15.240 You don't want to see your P I say your people that could be your kids. Uh, that could be your,

01:13:20.200 your coworkers, your colleagues, your neighbors. Those are your people. You don't want to see your

01:13:24.980 people suffer, but they can either suffer right now temporarily, or they can suffer forever

01:13:32.640 perpetually. And I'd rather have them suffer a little bit right now, dealing with the harsh

01:13:36.600 reality of where they are and then get them to a point where they can develop and build a confidence.

01:13:40.680 So down the road, you and your wife are completely better. You and your wife completely aligned in

01:13:45.140 that. Cause sometimes there isn't alignment there. She was completely aligned. Like, cause sometimes

01:13:49.640 I'm not trying to generalize, but at times, you know, the, the maternal instinct, uh, for some can,

01:13:57.780 can be like, not like you in that regard. You know what I mean? Yeah. No,

01:14:02.540 I agree. I agree. But also think about what the maternal instinct is. Like you want,

01:14:08.840 you care about your children. Well, if you care about your children, you're not going to let them

01:14:11.640 get fat. Yeah. Like, like if, if you care more about yourself, you said this a minute ago,

01:14:17.420 if you care more about yourself, you'll let them get fat. Cause you'll give them all the sugar and

01:14:21.140 all the candy and all the treats they can eat whenever they want. Get no sleep, get no exercise

01:14:25.400 because they love you. When you do that, they don't actually love you. They just like the fact that

01:14:30.140 you're giving a bunch of crap. And so that's for that's selfish maternally, even paternally,

01:14:37.740 both doing what needs to be done to give your child the best chance of success.

01:14:43.840 Well, and also you're thinking long-term, which is really hard. It's the harder thing. It's just

01:14:49.160 like, like whatever the hard things we're talking about. It's the harder thing that your son will

01:14:54.600 greatly appreciate and love you. Even if let's say other people, their kids don't like you in

01:15:02.020 the short term, or they're upset with you in the short term because you're whatever it is you may

01:15:06.800 be doing. I think that that's the part about parenting that is, that is you have to be mindful

01:15:12.960 of all the time. And I definitely mess it up and struggle with it of, of thinking longer term of

01:15:19.380 my job. I know you talked about this is to put you on a path so that you have no need for me.

01:15:27.120 You're completely self-sufficient. You can take care of yourself. Yes. I love it. If you want to

01:15:33.400 kind of see me and talk to me and be with me, but you don't need to, you won't need it. You're you,

01:15:37.940 you can take ownership of your life. I think ultimately that's like what our jobs are easier said

01:15:43.300 than done, but you have to think more longer term to create kind of habits and behaviors and rituals

01:15:47.740 and routines that put, put your kids on the path to doing that versus getting them to like you and

01:15:54.240 love you. And like the short term, because of the sugar highs of literal sugar or other things that

01:15:59.560 are, that are more like short-term fun. Well, I mean, what's your goal as a leader? I mean,

01:16:05.020 you talk about leadership and management and pursuing excellent. You talk about these,

01:16:09.120 is your goal to be liked by everybody? That's not leadership being respected, having influence with

01:16:17.340 other people. That to me is the mark of a leader is somebody who can be respected, not feared.

01:16:24.300 That's one end of the spectrum, not liked necessarily. That's the other end of the spectrum,

01:16:28.700 but respected falls somewhere in a healthy balance between the two.

01:16:32.760 The, the, the best football coaches in my life. There were a lot of moments where I did not like

01:16:38.720 them at all. Of course, of course, but today those people, I love them, you know, and I tell them and

01:16:46.620 we get to still talk. There were a lot of moments where I was like, not into this guy. And I look back

01:16:55.840 now and I realized some of it in the moment because we wouldn't, you'd win or you'd score a lot or

01:17:00.400 whatever. And I'd be like, man, I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky to have a guy who cares this much that he's

01:17:07.120 willing to push and push and push getting me, even though I, I don't like him. And a lot of my friends

01:17:13.200 don't either, but he, he's doing it for something greater. He knows there's more to that, that,

01:17:19.360 that I can do. He has higher expectations for me than I have for myself. And he's doing everything

01:17:25.600 he can, even in the moment, getting us where we don't like him and, and helping us perform to

01:17:31.620 these great, great levels and helping kids earn scholarships or whatever it may be, or helping

01:17:36.320 them learn to develop a work ethic and persevere and deal with adversity. I mean, those things are

01:17:42.080 now are the foundation of my life because of those guys that I was so lucky to have. That's leadership

01:17:49.660 man. Like that's what leadership is all about. And I'm so grateful for that. Even if in the moment,

01:17:55.100 I was not liking the dudes all the time, but yeah, I, I love them. I'm so grateful for them.

01:18:01.040 Now, when I look back on like the impact I had on my life and that's what motivates me and inspires me

01:18:06.260 to be a leader for others, because I know it's possible. I know I've, I've lived it. I know what's

01:18:11.900 possible. And, and, and to me, like, that's what leadership's all about. I agree, man. I agree.

01:18:17.540 I always enjoyed these conversations. I didn't actually expect it to go this way, but the fact that we're

01:18:21.960 sitting here and having a conversation, hitting record and just having a conversation between you

01:18:26.620 and I, I think it's going to add value, man. That's what we want, right? We want it to be

01:18:30.100 valuable for the people who are listening. Like I said, I'm not trying to blow smoke. I'm just super

01:18:34.440 grateful for you, man. What you do. I'm inspired by it. Likewise, brother. I love, love seeing it. And I

01:18:38.800 love talking to you. We should, I'll make it a point too, on my end, take ownership to do this more

01:18:43.040 often. Um, because whether we're recording or not, uh, I, I, I know I learned from you and I'm,

01:18:48.760 and I, like I said, I admire kind of the way that you're willing to kind of say what you believe and

01:18:54.300 what you think. And it's not, it, your, your thoughts and beliefs come from a place of doing

01:18:59.900 the work. It's not like you're just randomly spouting off it's, it's from doing the work and

01:19:04.580 living it. That's why I think I really value it. And I'm appreciative of, of, of you. Um, and I know

01:19:10.500 obviously so many others are as well. Thank you, man. That means a lot. And I, and I feel

01:19:15.040 the same way about you and what you've done and your leadership as well. I'm actually really glad

01:19:19.360 that we did this a couple of weeks. I think after we had scheduled, I cannot exactly remember why I

01:19:25.360 needed to reschedule. I just remember I was pissed that day and I can't even right now remember why it

01:19:32.140 was. I have to think about it for a second or talk with, with Brandy about it. But I was like,

01:19:36.980 I need to reschedule with Ryan. Cause I was just, I don't know what it was now. It's bothered me.

01:19:42.380 Anyways, I was, it would not have been nearly as productive as our discussion today. If we did it

01:19:47.780 two or three weeks ago, wherever we had it initially scheduled. It's all good, man. It's all good. I'm

01:19:52.220 glad we got a chance to do it, man. I'm really glad. Well, tell me, uh, tell me where the guys can go

01:19:56.720 to check out your work. Obviously they can pick up a copy of the book, which I think comes out.

01:20:00.720 Is it the 25th, January 25th, the pursuit of excellence. Where do guys go to connect with you?

01:20:06.180 Yeah. Learning leader.com. That's kind of the home of everything. My podcast is called

01:20:09.900 the learning leader show. So it's all like the home base of books and my podcast and

01:20:13.980 all of that. And I'm super, um, much obviously like you, Ryan, I think I get so much joy out of

01:20:20.020 having a long form, thoughtful conversation with another person. So I've done 450 of those, um,

01:20:26.960 over the past seven years. And that's, uh, yeah, it is, it's pretty crazy, but it's like,

01:20:32.080 it's my favorite thing to do. Like when I have free time, I, what I want to be doing is preparing

01:20:36.240 or recording a podcast. And I don't know, man, I don't, as people say like, do you get tired of it

01:20:41.020 or do you ever want to stop? And I actually feel the opposite. Like I want to do more. Uh, I want to,

01:20:45.140 I definitely want to at minimum continue doing it because I just love the process of trying to get

01:20:50.460 better at it. I love the, like, I just love these types of conversations. Um, like I, I learn,

01:20:56.880 I grow, I get better from, from doing it. And so, um, yeah, I, I, I love talking to a wide array of

01:21:03.700 people who have crazy life experiences that are different from mine and that I can, uh, I can,

01:21:09.360 I can learn from. So yeah, learningleader.com is where all my stuff is. And yeah, I really appreciate,

01:21:14.980 appreciate you, man. Yeah. Right on, man. We're going to sync it all up. So the guys know where to

01:21:19.040 go, but, um, yeah, let's make sure it's not seven years or whatever before we do another podcast.

01:21:23.700 Obviously we're going to talk in the meantime, but I don't want it to be that long, man.

01:21:27.860 I appreciate all your work and everything you do. I read the book. You sent it to me months ago. You

01:21:31.900 sent me the, uh, PDF of it. So guys, I'm telling you, go pick up a copy. If you want to be excellent,

01:21:37.380 you want to pursue something meaningful and something important and do well at it. Like

01:21:40.820 this is a great read to be able to do just that. So brother, I appreciate you. Thanks for your time

01:21:45.080 today. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. All right, you guys, there's my conversation with my friend

01:21:50.960 and fellow podcaster, Ryan Hawk, uh, obviously went off script a little bit on this one. And

01:21:55.980 you know, I try to do that. I want this to be more conversational, like, uh, two friends. We are

01:22:00.900 talking and having conversations and not really being too scripted about where the conversation

01:22:05.880 goes, but allowing the conversation to develop organically the way that it should, the way that

01:22:10.720 we as men have these types of conversations. So if, uh, if you enjoyed it, please make sure to

01:22:15.400 connect with him on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook, uh, also pick up a copy of his book,

01:22:21.780 the pursuit of excellence. It's a great, great book. I, I read it, uh, before it was released

01:22:26.180 and I would highly recommend it to anybody who wants to achieve big things in 2022, uh, connect

01:22:31.100 with me, take a screenshot right now. And then the last thing I was looking, we've got a seven ish

01:22:35.860 thousand ratings and reviews on iTunes. Do me a favor, guys, just take 30 seconds, 60 seconds

01:22:41.860 right now. You're already on iTunes. You're already on Spotify or Stitcher or SoundCloud

01:22:47.440 or wherever you're listening. Just pull that up, leave a quick five-star rating and review.

01:22:51.980 Let's bump that up. As they say, those are rookie numbers. We need to bump those numbers up.

01:22:57.160 So we need to get up to a 10,000. It's 3000 reviews. We can do it guys. So please, if you

01:23:03.200 would do that, also go check out man in the making podcast, subscribe to that, man, we got a lot going

01:23:08.720 on. So I appreciate you being on the path with me. Couldn't do it without you. And I'm looking

01:23:13.100 forward to a great, profitable, productive, effective 2022. Let's make it happen guys.

01:23:20.120 We'll be back tomorrow until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:23:25.220 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:23:29.800 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:23:38.720 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - January 04, 2022

RYAN HAWK ｜ Uncommon Behaviors of Productive Achievers

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