Order of Man - SAL DI STEFANO ｜ How Resistance Training Improves Strength and Makes You a Better Man

00:00:00.000 Guys, every one of us intuitively knows that getting stronger is the right thing to do.

00:00:04.800 It quite literally improves every facet of our lives from the influence that we can develop

00:00:09.080 with others to the energy needed to build a business and the stamina and mental fortitude

00:00:14.340 needed to raise and lead a family. So why then do so many of us slack in this department?

00:00:19.740 My guest today, Sal DiStefano and I talk about that. He's an expert in strength training and

00:00:25.740 the author of the resistance training revolution. Now we discuss the chronic health issue of today's

00:00:31.660 modern man, cardio versus strength training, and which is better, uh, developing testosterone,

00:00:37.120 which is something I know a lot of you are interested in and how to do that naturally,

00:00:40.960 uh, the traits of admirable men and how to burn fat and get stronger.

00:00:46.680 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:51.080 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you

00:00:56.900 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:01:03.380 who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:01:09.080 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler and I am

00:01:14.740 the host and the founder of the order of man podcast and movement. I want to welcome you here and back.

00:01:19.700 And regardless of how long you've been listening to the show, I'm glad you're tuned in because we

00:01:24.660 need to enlist more men in this mission to reclaim and restore masculinity. And that's what 0.99

00:01:31.240 we're doing here via this podcast conversations I have with incredible men, uh, the Friday field

00:01:36.940 notes, which I do on my own for better or worse. And also the, ask me anything that I do with my

00:01:41.740 friend and co-host, Mr. Kip Sorensen. So if you're not already subscribed, make sure that you are

00:01:48.080 leave a rating and review. It goes a very long way in making sure that we get this message

00:01:53.040 out to the masses and more and more people need to hear this. Now, before I get into my introduction

00:01:58.980 of my guest today, Mr. Sal DeStefano, a good friend of mine, uh, just want to mention my friends

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00:03:18.160 All right, guys, with that said, let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Sal DeStefano. He's

00:03:22.440 been on the podcast a couple of times. He's been a good friend and frankly, a very early supporter

00:03:28.820 of what we're doing here with order of man. He's also the co-founder and co-host of mind pump media,

00:03:35.640 which has been a top rated podcast year over year, over year, over year. And he just came out

00:03:42.360 with a new book. It's called the resistance training revolution, uh, the no cardio way to burn fat

00:03:47.780 and age-proof your body in only 60 minutes per week. So this one's going to be a good one for you

00:03:54.080 guys. But in addition to that, he is a strength and conditioning coach and an extremely, extremely

00:03:59.620 deep thinker when it comes to the trials and struggles that modern culture and society have

00:04:04.480 presented us. So gents, I think you're going to enjoy this one as much as I did and walk away 1.00

00:04:08.960 with a new perspective and maybe some marching orders. That's the most important thing. The

00:04:13.520 marching orders on how to get strong and fit. Enjoy guys.

00:04:19.820 Sal, what's up brother. It's great to see you again. You know, I I've had the fortune of talking

00:04:25.080 with a lot of powerful men, but I really, really enjoy our conversations because they're always kind

00:04:31.580 of on the same page, but you challenged me in a different way. Anyways, it's good to have a

00:04:34.680 conversation, man. Yeah, no, I appreciate, uh, I always appreciate talking to you. Very stimulating

00:04:39.620 and you have a great podcast. Love what you do. So anytime you invite me on, man, it's a pleasure.

00:04:44.400 Yeah. How's the podcast been going for you guys? I mean, what do we, we bet what three or four years

00:04:49.480 ago now, but you guys continue to do incredible work. Yeah. It's gotta be at least four years. And,

00:04:55.660 uh, we're just, we're growing every month, month over month, having a lot of fun, you know,

00:05:01.800 not doing anything too different from what we did as trainers and coaches and gym owners,

00:05:05.900 just doing it on a broader scale. And what we found to be effective as trainers is translated

00:05:11.300 very well to, to this space. So we've been very fortunate in that way. Well, you know,

00:05:15.740 the thing I appreciate about it, what you guys are doing, cause look, I've got your book. You sent it

00:05:19.260 to me the resistance, uh, training revolution, excuse me. And, um, there's a lot of exercises

00:05:26.220 in here, which, which are good, but at the risk of, and I don't want to be offensive here,

00:05:31.160 but the risk of sounding maybe offensive is like, everybody seems to know what to do,

00:05:36.280 but nobody does it. And, and that's where I really appreciate our conversations. It's like,

00:05:44.200 all right, cool. We got some exercises in here, but why in the hell are men not doing

00:05:49.120 what it is they know they should be doing? Yeah, no, that's a, that's a great question.

00:05:55.360 Um, a big part of the problem is exactly what you're saying now. And we'll talk about that.

00:06:00.400 We'll talk about the roots as to why people don't do what is, what they know to be effective,

00:06:06.480 what they know to be, uh, you know, what works, but the other problem, and believe it or not,

00:06:11.640 and sometimes we forget this cause we tend to be in our own bubble or our own space. A lot of people

00:06:16.640 still don't know what to do for, uh, in the fitness space. Uh, if we're talking about health

00:06:22.540 and fitness, most people know they need to exercise. They know that there's benefits to

00:06:26.460 exercise. Okay. Sure. But most people, most average people, most average people still don't

00:06:32.440 know that resistance training or strength training is the most effective single, most effective

00:06:38.220 form of exercise for what most people's goals are. They still don't know that they've been sold

00:06:44.060 something else. They've been told something else. And they think that strength training

00:06:48.780 is just for guys who want to get big muscles or girls who want to look bulky, but it doesn't

00:06:53.420 help with fat loss as much as cardio, or it doesn't contribute to longevity and health, uh,

00:06:59.580 maybe performance. Most everyday people still think that I can't tell you how many times I've

00:07:04.860 talked to even guys who've gone to the doctor, uh, and you know, the doctor would tell them

00:07:09.500 that their blood lipids are off their cholesterol or triglycerides aren't looking so good. So they

00:07:14.660 decide that they're going to start exercising and I'll suggest resistance training. Oh no, no,

00:07:20.100 no. I don't want to get big. I just want to lose weight and get healthy. So there's still a ton of

00:07:25.800 misinformation that's out there. And, um, when this is one of the main reasons why I wrote this book

00:07:30.540 is I'm trying to explain to the average person, not the fitness fanatic or the person who's in the

00:07:35.800 know, but the average person, which is still the majority of people on how resistance training is

00:07:40.360 when it comes to health, longevity, fat loss, brain health, um, especially in the context of

00:07:45.600 modern life, which is sedentary modern life, which includes lots of easy acts, easily accessible,

00:07:51.960 hyper palatable foods. And the context, which includes the fact that most people will probably

00:07:57.780 never be more consistent than maybe two or three days a week of exercise. When you consider all of

00:08:03.260 those things resistance training is just the best form of exercise. And so that's, that was the goal

00:08:08.580 of, of that book. So still talking to a lot of people and trying to inform. So let's, let's back

00:08:15.980 up a second then if it, cause you're saying, okay, so a lot of people don't know, let's just back up

00:08:21.820 rudimentary basic level. What is resistance training? Like what is foundational level? Does that even mean?

00:08:28.940 Yeah. What are other people doing that they think is resistance training or think is improving their

00:08:35.500 situation, but really just isn't? No, that's a great question. So resistance training is not just

00:08:41.280 working out with resistance. Um, resistance training is using resistance for the specific purpose

00:08:48.920 of building muscle and strength or any specific way to build muscle and strength. So I could use

00:08:55.660 dumbbells and barbells in a way that makes it cardio and that does not make it resistance training.

00:09:01.920 There are a few, uh, aspects of resistance training in the way that I'm talking about it, that make it,

00:09:07.260 you know, what, again, what I'm explaining, one is rest periods in between sets. The other one is to

00:09:13.940 use sufficient amount of resistance or tension. The third thing would be to work within rep ranges

00:09:19.880 between, you know, maybe one rep as low as one rep, all the way as high as maybe 25 reps.

00:09:24.740 And then there's a certain amount of intensity. Those are kind of the basic things that make

00:09:30.200 resistance training, resistance training. Now, what are people doing instead? Well, we, we have to

00:09:36.700 kind of start with is the old paradigm that we've been told for a long time that is really not just

00:09:44.500 not helping us, but is actually contributing to the problem of obesity and chronic health issues.

00:09:51.180 So if we look at modern societies, uh, we notice some pretty specific or, you know, should I say,

00:09:59.120 um, certain health issues that characterize modern life more than anything else, right? So obesity being

00:10:05.800 one of them, if you don't live in a modern society, obesity is probably not an issue. You know, getting

00:10:11.320 food is not, is, is, is a big concern. You're probably super active because that's what you have

00:10:17.100 to be in order to survive. But in my, lots of food, very sedentary. And so obesity is a big problem.

00:10:24.600 And that's an umbrella issue that contributes to lots of other issues, chronic health issues. So

00:10:30.420 autoimmune issues is another one. Dementia and Alzheimer's would be another one. Diabetes,

00:10:35.600 osteoporosis, you know, these are all health issues that kind of characterize, uh, modern societies.

00:10:41.700 Now, what the old paradigm, uh, said was, okay, in order to lose weight, in order to solve this issue,

00:10:49.000 we need to take in less calories than we burn or to put differently, we need to burn more calories

00:10:54.960 than we take in. And that's accurate. That's actually true. That's a, uh, it's a law of

00:10:59.200 thermodynamics. It's a law of physics. You can't get around it. So I don't care what diet you choose.

00:11:04.200 I don't care if you're paleo or keto or carnivore or vegan or whatever. If you want to lose weight,

00:11:09.720 you have to take in less calories than you burn. Now here, it's a simple equation of energy is

00:11:14.280 really all it is. It's like, if you've got this much energy to consume and you're consuming this

00:11:19.220 much and you either have a surplus or a deficit period, end of story. That's it. Correct. Now,

00:11:25.100 of course it's a little more complicated in terms of how you feel and what's sustainable and all that

00:11:29.800 stuff. Right. But that rule is a rule. Now here's the, the, the, the false part of that old paradigm

00:11:37.080 is they look at the energy in, uh, side of this equation. And then they look at the energy

00:11:42.660 outside of the equation and they say, okay, it's beneficial to burn more calories. So let's look

00:11:48.820 at exercise and let's value exercise by how many calories you burn while doing it. This is the

00:11:54.420 primary value of exercise from their standpoint, because you want to burn more calories, right?

00:11:59.640 So, okay, let's take all the forms of exercise that we could possibly do. And the most valuable

00:12:05.040 forms have to be the ones that burn the most calories. Now there's a big problem.

00:12:10.040 So let me back up on that a little bit, Sal. Let me, let me just pause you on that. So like,

00:12:14.260 if I was going to compare two, two, we'll just say two exercises, let's take a jujitsu versus 0.90

00:12:22.860 strength training. Yes.

00:12:24.620 The old paradigm, what you're saying is that if I was going to do an hour of jujitsu

00:12:30.480 versus an hour of, of strength training, that the more beneficiary one based on the old paradigm

00:12:36.740 would be whatever one was going to burn the most calories period. That's it. That's all we're

00:12:41.060 taking into consideration.

00:12:42.780 100%. And this is what they've always promoted, right? It's in fact, I mean, cardio machines do

00:12:46.900 this. You get on a piece of cardio, they advertise how many calories are burned, which by the way,

00:12:50.440 they're totally overestimating, but it's always like, and if you look at mainstream fitness

00:12:55.520 programs, you know, sold by, you know, fitness entertainers and, you know, hucksters, it's,

00:13:01.320 you know, burn a thousand calories or burn 600 calories or burn more calories. So it's all about

00:13:06.120 that. Now, the problem with that, and I'll explain why is that that's actually the least valuable

00:13:11.740 aspect of exercise. And actually we shouldn't focus on that at all. The main value of exercise is

00:13:19.440 how does this form of exercise get my body to adapt? And then what does that mean? Okay. What

00:13:26.760 does, yeah, right. Adapt to what, what is exactly that's, that was my next question.

00:13:31.400 Yeah. Like, okay. So I do this form of exercise. I get better at it, you know, AKA my body adapts.

00:13:38.040 And then what does that mean? So let's start with the form of exercise that most people associate

00:13:44.720 with fat loss. Most people associate with longevity. Most people associate with health

00:13:50.480 and even the medical community for a long time has recommended as the primary form of exercise

00:13:55.860 for health, longevity, and fat loss, which is cardiovascular activity. Now cardiovascular activity

00:14:01.520 would be running, swimming, biking, you know, those forms of exercise. And they do burn the most

00:14:09.500 calories per time spent versus other forms of exercise. So in that context, yeah, they do burn

00:14:16.660 more calories, but again, they're ignoring the most important part, which is the adaptation

00:14:22.160 that, that form of exercise induces in the body or that any form of exercise induces in the body.

00:14:28.020 So if we look at it from that standpoint, cardiovascular activity, the way your body gets better at it

00:14:34.660 is it tries to improve its endurance. It tries to also become more efficient at energy usage, right?

00:14:43.100 So it's trying to become more efficient with the calories that it's using. So think of it this way.

00:14:48.420 Imagine if, um, you know, Elon Musk invented an AI car that could adapt and mold itself to your

00:14:56.360 driving habits. Okay. So, and every day you drive 250 miles at 30 miles an hour. So you're simulating

00:15:04.960 what endurance exercise would look like, right? What would this car turn into? It would become a very

00:15:11.780 low horsepower, low energy using vehicle. It would conserve as much energy as possible. You're not

00:15:20.080 asking, you're not demanding lots of power. What you're demanding of that car is lots of stamina and

00:15:25.540 endurance in essence, right? Efficiency, essentially. Exactly. This is what happens to your body when

00:15:33.120 you do lots and lots of cardiovascular activity. Now, this isn't just my anecdote or my experience,

00:15:38.040 which I have lots of anecdote experience to support this. This is supported by scientific study.

00:15:44.600 If you look at the science and studies on cardio plus diet for weight loss, what you find typically is

00:15:54.260 generally about half of the weight that is lost is coming from muscle. Okay. Now it's not because

00:16:00.340 the body is burning muscle. That's not what's happening. It's actually, that's actually quite

00:16:04.340 a difficult process. So it's not that it's burning muscle for energy, but rather it's paring muscle

00:16:09.780 down to make you a more efficient, more effective cardio machine. Cause your body on a second on this 0.83

00:16:17.220 one. So, okay. I just want to wrap my head around this. Cause these are things I'm personally dealing

00:16:21.920 with. So the way that I understand it, and this is anecdotally, this is just intuitively. So you're

00:16:30.080 going to correct me if I'm wrong here and I'm sure I am, but it seems to me that the body has evolved

00:16:34.620 to store fat and to, to expend as, as little calories as possible over tens, if not hundreds of

00:16:45.060 thousands of years, like we want to preserve energy, we want to expend nothing and we want to store

00:16:52.800 fat so that if we're in a famine for the next 30 days, we're going to survive. And it seems to me

00:17:01.240 that again, this is just anecdotally, my body just loves to store a little fat around the midsection 0.78

00:17:07.580 because you never know when it's going to be 30 days before my next meal. Although in modern times,

00:17:13.220 I'm going to have a meal in five hours. Yes. Yeah. So our bodies are adaptation machines.

00:17:19.620 And if you look at the stresses that, uh, humans have been under for, for the vast majority of human

00:17:26.220 history, not like 30% of human history, but 99.9% really obesity. Obesity is only really a problem

00:17:34.680 that we've really had to deal with over the last, I don't know, six or seven decades, right? Before that,

00:17:38.880 that was not an issue. If you were a King, you might be a little overweight, but that's it.

00:17:43.440 Everybody else, right? We see was building pyramids and everything else. So you didn't

00:17:47.580 have to worry about that issue for most of human history. Our bodies dealt with, uh, this calorie 0.77

00:17:53.480 and energy issue. In fact, there's a study that I bring up in the book and there's actually other

00:17:58.720 studies that have been very similar, but my favorite one was done on the Hadza tribe of Northern

00:18:04.920 Tanzania. These are modern hunter gatherers. And so they live the way humans lived thousands of years 0.98

00:18:12.140 ago, right? They don't have electronics. They gather roots and seeds and naturally growing fruit.

00:18:19.220 If they find any, and a majority of their calories come from hunting and the way they hunt is the way

00:18:24.720 that we probably hunted. We're really, really good at throwing with accuracy. So we're, you know,

00:18:29.880 there's a couple of things that humans do better than any animal, right? We can throw with

00:18:33.240 incredible accuracy and we have incredible stamina in comparison to other animals. I know a lot of

00:18:39.860 people don't realize that, but we can out-track almost any animal. And so the way that we hunt

00:18:44.920 is we throw a spear at an animal, we wound it, and then we run after it until it gets tired and then 0.97

00:18:50.620 we kill it. Right. We just wear it down. Wear it down. Persistence hunting. This is just how we did 1.00

00:18:56.000 it. And we, you know, we work together and we try to trap the animal nonetheless, but we just

00:18:59.160 moving constantly. So scientists went and studied the Hadza tribe and through some pretty sophisticated

00:19:05.320 testing, wanted to see how many calories they burned on a daily basis. And they theorized that

00:19:12.400 they must be burning way more calories than the average Western couch potato. I mean, they're moving

00:19:17.800 all the time. What they found was pretty remarkable. The Hadza tribes people burned similar amounts of

00:19:26.320 calories to your average couch potato. Now, at first you think, how is this possible? I mean,

00:19:32.380 these people are taking 50,000, 100,000 steps a day. And here we are, you know, 2,000, 3,000 steps a day,

00:19:40.420 barely moving. This is insane. But if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. It makes no sense

00:19:47.320 for hunter gatherers to burn 10 or 15,000 calories a day. We would have never survived. It's impossible to

00:19:55.220 find that much energy in nature. So the body learns to become extremely efficient. And this is exactly

00:20:02.480 what we find with the studies on cardiovascular activity. When you do lots of cardio, initially you

00:20:08.940 burn a lot of calories, but your body pairs muscle down to become more efficient. And over time, you slow

00:20:14.260 your metabolism down. So this is what weight loss looks like when you do cardio plus diet. And the reason

00:20:21.180 why I'm explaining this is because I guarantee a majority of your listeners have gone through this

00:20:25.640 process. Hold on a second on this. So here's my question. If we've evolved this way, like, again,

00:20:32.180 I go back to jujitsu because this is something I've been heavily involved with for the past couple of

00:20:36.400 years. What I'm understanding you say is that we've evolved to be less jacked and more leaner,

00:20:48.420 more efficient machines. So does it make sense to get jacked? Does that make sense how I'm asking

00:20:55.180 that? No, 100%. It makes sense because we have to, if we want to be smart, we have to modify our

00:21:03.640 behaviors to fit our environment. And our environment is not like it was a hundred thousand years ago.

00:21:10.340 It just isn't. We are surrounded by easily accessible food. Our, our, our lives are naturally

00:21:19.220 sedentary. We've done a great job. But, but am I better off being leaner and stronger in the

00:21:28.960 environment that I'm likely to face than being this 250 pounds swole dude who can't, you know, 1.00

00:21:37.500 move his neck. Now I know that's a false dichotomy, but I want to present that to the guys. Like is,

00:21:44.340 is the ultimate result to be this guy who looks like a Greek God, or is it to be that, that individual

00:21:51.920 who's lean and tight and strong, low body fat and can move and maneuver and do everything he needs to do?

00:21:59.740 Yeah. So let's not use the extreme of the 250 pound bodybuilder. That's any, any extreme in any

00:22:07.620 endeavor is probably not healthy, whether it's extreme endurance, extreme strength or anything

00:22:13.780 like that. So let's not use that comparison, but no, if we could model our lives entirely around the

00:22:22.160 way that we evolved, we probably would have the best of all worlds. Now, the problem with that is

00:22:29.080 I'm not communicating to the person who prioritizes longevity and health above all things and who's

00:22:35.760 willing to go to, you know, extremes to achieve that because that would require a lot of planning,

00:22:43.040 a lot of, and we're not going to get that. Here's the deal, Ryan. Maybe you might do this.

00:22:47.880 You're a very determined, motivated individual.

00:22:50.060 No, I won't. We're talking about Ben Greenfield here. It's definitely not me. Okay. So let's just get

00:22:57.420 that out of the way. Okay. So we're, we're not going to get the average. This is just not going

00:23:02.260 to work for the average person. It just isn't. So what we need to look at is, all right, in the

00:23:07.500 context of the way people live and the fact that, and this is my experience. Okay. I got at getting

00:23:14.100 people who never worked out to become consistent for the rest of their lives. And here's the best I

00:23:19.540 ever got, Ryan, two or three days a week. That's the most I ever got at anybody long-term. I could not

00:23:25.420 take the average person and turn them into a fitness fanatic. That was rare. Most people

00:23:30.700 went from never exercising to, if I did a good job, two or three days a week of structured exercise

00:23:36.940 for the rest of their lives. Okay. That's the most we can hope for. So that's what we have

00:23:42.240 to work with. Right. So to give you another example, I could say, here's your bet. You should

00:23:49.460 always avoid any food that's unhealthy, any alcohol. You should avoid any vice that is

00:23:56.620 unhealthy at all. Right. Is that realistic? No, it's not realistic. Um, that means that's

00:24:01.720 true. That would be a perfect scenario so long as you don't become an orthorexic, but it's

00:24:07.440 unreal.

00:24:07.740 What is that? I don't even know what that is.

00:24:10.120 Orthorexia is a, a dysfunctional relationship with health and food to where, so you have anorexia,

00:24:17.060 right? Where you just don't. It's a mental issue. It's a mental issue where everything has to be

00:24:20.980 healthy and perfect and it provides, it creates a tremendous amount of stress and anything outside

00:24:25.720 of that is triggering, causes anxiety. I avoid relationships with people. I don't go to

00:24:31.220 birthdays. I, it's all I do is, is, is obsess over eating perfect. And it's very, it sounds like an

00:24:37.860 obsessive compulsive sort of disorder is what it sounds like. Yeah. And by the way, you know,

00:24:42.660 Stanford actually did a study on this. They showed that having bad relationships with

00:24:46.880 people was as bad for your health as smoking. I think it was something like 15 cigarettes a day.

00:24:52.280 So how do they define bad relationships with people? What does that mean?

00:24:56.340 People who, um, uh, when they, you know, fill out surveys who don't have good relationships with

00:25:01.460 friends, family, or have no relationships who tend to be, um, isolators. Yes. Right.

00:25:07.580 It didn't have very bad health. Right. So, and the reason why that's important to communicate is,

00:25:11.700 um, obsessing over perfect health can in one hand, yeah, you got the perfect eating and exercise,

00:25:19.580 but on the other hand, you actually may be causing yourself harm because you was chew other things

00:25:24.540 that are also important for health. Well, there's a cost to it. Right. And, and you and I have had,

00:25:30.100 I mean, hours and hours of conversations, but there's a cost associated with diet, with exercise,

00:25:39.160 with taking things to the extreme, all of the things that everybody would hear and say, well,

00:25:43.540 that's a good thing. There's still a cost associated with it. And we have to know what

00:25:47.940 the cost is and whether or not we're willing to pay the price. That's right. And I believe that

00:25:53.580 the true, um, the only way to achieve sustainability is to find, to enjoy that process, or at least to

00:26:03.620 value that process in real ways. Right. So if somebody is viewing exercise and someone is

00:26:10.120 viewing eating right as torture, as punishment, the odds that they'll stay consistent, uh, and

00:26:18.080 successful with it are super low. This is one of them. Unless you're a weird guy like David Goggins,

00:26:24.040 which I'm not, I'm not going to speak for you, but 99.9% of the population is not David Goggins,

00:26:31.400 where they're a bit of a masochist who just loves to feel the pain or whatever. Like,

00:26:35.720 I'm not like that. I don't, I don't want to experience that. And it doesn't sound enjoyable

00:26:40.280 to me. It doesn't. And I think he identifies a lot with it. It's part of his brand. So who knows?

00:26:45.600 Uh, but you're absolutely right. Like, I don't want to, you know, I think it's important for example,

00:26:51.620 uh, to be loyal to your wife and to be a good father, but I don't think it's a great idea to do it

00:27:00.560 and hate it the whole damn time. And to be like, and to miss being a single bachelor and Oh God,

00:27:05.940 I wish I didn't have kids. Like, I mean, I could see some virtue and doing what's right,

00:27:11.220 even though you hate it. But I think learning to value it and finding ways to enjoy the process is

00:27:17.400 the, is the best approach. And I approach exercise and health and nutrition that way. That's why when

00:27:22.680 you listen to my podcast, what you don't hear are fitness zealots. This is why you hear us talk about

00:27:27.620 things like how to enjoy yourself, how to find balance. We talk about, you know, that will

00:27:32.560 occasionally we'll hang out together and drink or occasionally enjoy a joint. Like is smoking a

00:27:38.560 joint healthy, uh, for my body? No. Um, are there healthy ways to, you know, to, to utilize these

00:27:46.000 things? I think if you look at the greater context, there are, I think being consistent with exercise is

00:27:51.140 great too. Do I think it's good for you to do it, um, in replace of, you know, going to your kids

00:27:57.760 football game? No, really the angle that I'm coming from when I communicate the, the values of

00:28:04.400 resistance training, it's in a perfect world. I think there's a, there's daily exercise and there's

00:28:12.140 components of flexibility, endurance, strength, mobility. I think there's a meditation or prayer

00:28:16.720 practice. I think your food is never processed. I think it's always grown by you and you're part of

00:28:24.680 that process. I think you hunt some of your food because there's value in that. Is that going to

00:28:28.460 happen? No, it's not going to happen. It's unrealistic, uh, to even push that, um, to the

00:28:32.740 average person. What I'm trying to do is be as effective as possible, knowing what I know in terms

00:28:37.260 of how often people are going to work out and knowing what I know about how people live again in

00:28:42.640 modern societies. Well, I think that's what you guys do. So great is you talked about drinking or

00:28:48.260 smoking a joint is you're not making any sort of justification by playing these mental gymnastics by

00:28:54.220 saying this is good for your body. You're saying, no, this is not probably good, but you know what?

00:29:00.140 I enjoy drinking a beer with the guys. And in the meantime, you know, the other 90% or 80% or

00:29:06.380 whatever the ratio is of my time is going to be spent doing things that are productive and healthy

00:29:10.480 and good and wholesome. And the other 20%, you know, I'm going to live a little and enjoy what

00:29:15.600 life has to offer. Absolutely. Look, it's like, I'll simplify it, right? If the inexperienced

00:29:21.960 trainer version of myself, let's say a person came up to me, this is before I really knew what I was

00:29:28.060 doing. And by the way, it took me five years at least to become effective as a trainer. It took a

00:29:31.960 long time, but the inexperienced version of myself, let's say somebody came up to me and said,

00:29:36.040 Hey, Sal, um, uh, there's two forms of exercise I'm going to choose, uh, from, uh, to do first

00:29:42.780 thing in the morning. Uh, I can either swim in my cold swimming pool, or I could, uh, you know,

00:29:50.380 walk on my treadmill. Which one do you think is, is better? Now the inexperienced trainer would say,

00:29:55.720 Oh, you should swim. It's better for your whole body. It works. Everything. The cold water does all

00:30:01.400 this for you and that for you. The experienced trainer would say this, which one do you enjoy

00:30:06.940 more? Now, now, now, now, why would I say that? Because I know that the one that they enjoy more

00:30:13.680 is the one they're probably most likely to stick to that, that if they did a form of exercise that

00:30:19.540 they hated, I don't care how valuable and effective it is. If they stopped doing it, it's worth nothing.

00:30:24.500 Right. So that's where I'm coming from. This is the, uh, what I would call the CrossFit

00:30:30.200 argument. You know, I, I hear a lot of guys and maybe you too, I don't know, would say, well,

00:30:35.780 you know, CrossFit's not the best because people get hurt and this and that. And like all these

00:30:39.300 things about why CrossFit isn't the best. Well, I did CrossFit for about five years, solid,

00:30:44.460 consistent. And there isn't another thing outside of jujitsu, which I found over the past two to three

00:30:49.600 years. There isn't another thing that I found more engaging and kept me coming back than CrossFit.

00:30:57.940 So you're telling me CrossFit is horrible. And yet it's the only thing in four decades of being on

00:31:04.240 this planet that kept me engaged for five whole years consistent. How could that be bad?

00:31:11.400 Exactly. Exactly. 100%. If, if, if the, if the, you know, the question was CrossFit or

00:31:17.840 not exercising or exercising very inconsistently, well, I think the answer is obvious, right? Which

00:31:24.240 form of exercise is best. And that's true for all of them. And I do want to be clear because as we

00:31:29.200 continue this conversation, I'll be explaining why, you know, one form of exercise is superior,

00:31:34.500 why it's the one that we need to promote and why other forms of exercise are inferior.

00:31:39.040 I want to be very clear. All forms of activity have value so long as they're applied appropriately,

00:31:44.880 all of them. Okay. And I say appropriately, cause you can overdo anything where we can apply

00:31:49.060 something, anything inappropriately, in which case it'll not be good for you, but all forms of activity,

00:31:54.200 if applied appropriately have value. So I want to be clear because sometimes I'll get labeled as

00:32:00.320 anti-cardio or, you know, Oh, you just like meathead workouts. Not true. Not true at all. Um,

00:32:07.360 it's all about, uh, the one that is going to be the most effective considering all those things I

00:32:12.500 talked about. I'm talking to the general population, but if you put me in front of an individual,

00:32:17.480 that conversation can change dramatically because at the end of the day, it's about which one are you

00:32:22.540 going to be most likely to do? Which one brings you the most value? Which one do you enjoy the most?

00:32:27.240 Which one helps you stay the most consistent? Well, you know, and I think social media has done

00:32:32.980 a phenomenal job in giving us accessibility, accessibility to everybody, but, uh, it's also

00:32:38.740 created this world where it's all about false dichotomies where you're either a runner or a

00:32:44.880 swimmer or martial arts or a strength trainer, or it's like, you know, there's probably an infinite

00:32:51.660 number of variables and percentages that lie in between the extremes. And, and that's what I hear

00:32:59.800 you say. Yeah. That's not the false dichotomies. Yes. Yes. And what I'm trying to do again, I'm

00:33:05.540 talking to people who mainstream every day, my aunt or my neighbor who still thinks that if they touch

00:33:12.800 weights, they're going to blow up and look like Arnold or that, you know, that they just got to

00:33:17.800 burn calories. That's the best way to exercise. Those are the people that I'm talking to. And

00:33:22.160 what I'm trying to do is educate them because oftentimes they make those choices based on

00:33:26.500 false information. And when they get the right information and they can make better choices,

00:33:31.520 or at the very least, Ryan, they can understand what the hell's going on. Why isn't this working

00:33:36.140 anymore? You know, that example I gave earlier, which this is the one that's pushed. You want to lose

00:33:42.320 weight? You want to be healthy? Eat less, do lots of cardio. If you go exercise, do lots of cardio.

00:33:47.840 That's what you lose weight, but you may not be healthy, but you'll definitely lose weight.

00:33:52.040 There's no doubt. Well, here's what happens. You lose muscle initially, your metabolism slows down.

00:33:57.940 So this is what happens. You lose weight at first, then you plateau real hard. Now to move any further,

00:34:03.000 you got to cut more calories or exercise more. Then you lose a little more and then you plateau again.

00:34:07.880 At the end of this road is I lost the weight, but now I've got this much slower metabolism,

00:34:15.120 and it's very challenging to maintain. On the other end of the spectrum, if we do these the way

00:34:21.640 that I explain, what I'm doing is the weight loss starts off a little slower, primarily because

00:34:26.760 it's pure fat that you lose. When you do strength training, you either build muscle or at the very

00:34:32.220 least you maintain it. So what you're saying is you're not losing fat and muscle. You're primarily

00:34:38.200 losing fat, which doesn't accelerate the weight loss, which is different than the health aspect of

00:34:46.420 it. Yeah. Well, um, I mean, you could cut your leg off and lose weight immediately. Right.

00:34:50.580 Yeah. Great point. Great point. Yeah. And so the weight loss starts a little slower,

00:34:55.620 but it starts to snowball as your metabolism ramps up as it speeds up. And at the end of that road,

00:35:03.260 you're leaner. You lost the body fat. You're much smaller, tighter, the whole thing,

00:35:07.380 but you have a faster metabolism. What a great position to be in, right? Imagine losing 15 pounds,

00:35:14.980 but now eating more, right? That is a, a winning formula. If there is one, when, again, when we're

00:35:22.480 considering, you know, the context of modern life, you know, we talked about how we evolved and how

00:35:27.960 our bodies want to be efficient. A metabolism that's efficient was very valuable 50,000 years ago.

00:35:34.700 That's a great thing to be, have a metabolism that is very good at conserving energy and storing it

00:35:39.460 today. A metabolism that's fast is valuable. One that burns things. That's what's valuable now,

00:35:47.440 not the other way around. In fact, you know, we've been told things like sugar and inflammatory fats

00:35:55.200 and certain foods are unhealthy for us, but you want to know what's funny is so much, so much of the

00:36:01.900 damage that certain foods cause the body are negated when you burn it off. You know, they've done studies

00:36:09.260 where they'll show people eat a high sugar diet, but because they're in a calorie deficit, their

00:36:13.620 cholesterol improves, their inflammation goes down, they're healthier. Now, would they be healthier if

00:36:19.120 they didn't eat a higher sugar diet? I argue yes. Of course. Right. Sure. But my point is one of the best

00:36:25.100 buffers that we have, one of the best ways to, uh, to block, uh, or at least, uh, mitigate the damage,

00:36:33.740 uh, that is caused by living in these, these societies that we've created, um, is to have a

00:36:40.440 metabolism that's roaring hot. You know, if I can get away with eating 3000 calories a day,

00:36:45.020 because my body is burning it on its own, I'm going to be healthier than if my body metabolism was

00:36:52.000 slower and ate that same amount of calories. Well, and not to mention, you probably enjoy life

00:36:56.120 a little bit more if you had, you know, four slices of pizza, but you knew your body was going to burn

00:37:00.660 it. Yeah. I can have the four slices of pizza. And I think there's actually something to be said for

00:37:04.700 that. You're a hundred percent. Right. It's like, you know, I used to get this from people, right?

00:37:09.280 They go on a vacation with their wife or their husband and they come back and be like, man,

00:37:14.580 I feel like I erased five months of exercise off of one week. Like I gained body fat. I don't feel good.

00:37:20.840 That's because their metabolism was, was slow. It didn't, it wasn't able to buffer against,

00:37:25.860 you know, the occasional vacation. And imagine now, imagine this, you come back from vacation.

00:37:30.600 You're like, wow, you know, it's really weird. I was eating at the buffet. We were enjoying some

00:37:34.300 alcohol. My body seemed to be okay. Like I didn't seem to gain that much. I feel pretty good.

00:37:40.280 Like that's great. Right. So, you know, that's, that's kind of what I'm trying to provide here

00:37:44.860 with what I'm talking about. And again, if you, if you want to get deeper and, you know,

00:37:49.540 one of my favorite conversations around this, Ryan, uh, revolve around longevity and hormones,

00:37:55.100 because these were two things that were relatively unknown until recently in terms of the benefits of,

00:38:02.940 uh, resistance training, um, longevity in particular, we, we had no studies. We just

00:38:07.700 didn't have any studies to show the longevity benefits of resistance training. They just weren't

00:38:13.160 done. Anytime we did a study on exercise and health, it was cardio. That's just what we picked.

00:38:18.520 The only studies that were done on resistance training were revolved around performance.

00:38:23.580 Well, we now have studies. We'll start with Alzheimer's. That's a, that's a good one, 0.93

00:38:27.980 right? Alzheimer's is, uh, uh, you know, some people will call it type three diabetes.

00:38:31.580 This is growing. It's, it's exploding. This is an issue that we see primarily in, in,

00:38:38.500 in first world, uh, you know, modern societies. Only one form of exercise has been shown to stop

00:38:45.080 the progression of Alzheimer's. Only one. In fact, it's the only non-medical intervention

00:38:50.340 that's been shown to stop the progression of these beta amyloid plaques that build up

00:38:54.140 in the brain. There was a study done out of Sydney, Australia, and it was resistance training.

00:38:59.280 Nothing else has been shown to date to be as effective. Now, you know how I said it was,

00:39:04.200 some people call it type three diabetes. They think, and I think one of the reasons why this is

00:39:10.620 so effective is because, uh, it's nothing sensitizes your body to insulin as quickly

00:39:18.200 as building a little bit of muscle. Nothing, nothing will make your body as sensitive to insulin

00:39:22.760 as just gaining a little bit of muscle. In fact, if you took, they've done studies on the obese,

00:39:29.320 the severely obese, have them lose no weight, just have them gain a little bit of muscle.

00:39:33.840 And we see significant improvement in insulin sensitivity. You know, muscle is this hormone

00:39:39.600 sensitive, metabolically active tissue that also stores glycogen, right? Glycogen coming from

00:39:46.220 carbohydrates and sugars. So it's like you increase the gas tank at which you can store these

00:39:51.440 carbohydrates and sugars and improve directly improve insulin sensitivity. And many people believe

00:39:58.580 this is why resistance training is showing to be one of the best ways to prevent, uh, the degeneration,

00:40:05.500 you know, the Alzheimer's and dementia, for example, or issues with, uh, cognitive function.

00:40:11.300 Let's talk about hormones. This is a big one. It's one of my favorite ones because

00:40:15.560 this one's the most interesting and one of the most recent resistance training or strength training

00:40:21.760 is the only pro tissue form of exercise. Okay. All other forms of exercise in primary, primarily

00:40:30.780 cardiovascular activity is anti-tissue. So what does that mean? The main adaptation, right? The main

00:40:38.000 thing that resistance training or strength training is telling your body to do is to add active tissue or

00:40:45.060 build muscle. I do lots of cardiovascular activity. The main adaptations are to lose muscle along with

00:40:53.180 body fat and all that stuff, right? But get rid of more efficient. Correct. Get rid of this active

00:40:57.820 tissue. Now let's think of the hormones associated with losing muscle and the hormones associated with

00:41:05.940 gaining muscle. If my body has this signal that says we need to build, if I'm a man and my body is

00:41:14.580 getting a signal that says we need to build muscle, it's going to raise its testosterone, right? Of

00:41:19.580 course. The only form of exercise that reliably raises testosterone in all men, low testosterone men, 0.85

00:41:26.640 high testosterone men, doesn't matter. The only form of exercise that raises testosterone reliably

00:41:31.620 is resistance training. It's also the only form of exercise that's been shown to reliably increase

00:41:38.700 androgen receptor density. So these are the receptors that testosterone attaches to, right? We talked about

00:41:46.700 insulin sensitivity, improves insulin sensitivity. It raises growth hormone levels at the baseline,

00:41:53.200 lowers cortisol, right? Cortisol can burn muscle, at least prevent you from gaining muscle. In women, 1.00

00:42:01.240 you see this balancing of estrogen or progesterone. In essence, it promotes this youthful spectrum of hormones

00:42:09.460 in our body. Now let's go to the lose muscle equation. When my body's trying to lose muscle, it's very difficult to do

00:42:16.660 that if my testosterone levels are high. So what do we see in studies with lots of cardio? Reliable lowering of

00:42:23.340 testosterone in men. That's what you see. Why does it lower testosterone? Because it makes it easier to get the body. 0.99

00:42:29.740 Now it's not going to hammer your testosterone. It might, if you abuse your body, but you'll see it.

00:42:35.160 But it may hamper it. Correct. It'll lower it though. We see cortisol levels start to rise,

00:42:41.240 you know, relatively consistently. Estrogen or progesterone, especially if abused, we start to see

00:42:47.600 imbalance in women. So essentially your body is priming itself to lose muscle or gain muscle. 1.00

00:42:54.840 Okay. How is this important for today? What are we in an epidemic of right now in men in particular?

00:43:03.840 What have we observed in the last, I don't know, six decades consistently? A consistent across the

00:43:09.600 board lowering of testosterone. This has been happening. We've observed this now for decades.

00:43:14.560 Today, a 30 year old man average will have the testosterone levels of a 60 year old in the 1980s.

00:43:21.740 This is true. This is actually becoming quite an issue. Do you attribute that to something going

00:43:28.300 on with strength training or other things? Like you talked about androgen blockers and things like

00:43:35.280 that. And we see that in soaps and different products and plastics and everything else.

00:43:40.500 Do you attribute it to that? Or do you attribute it to not working out? Like what do you actually

00:43:47.780 attribute that loss of testosterone on average in men over the past 50 to 60 years?

00:43:53.060 Yeah. There's no single, there's no silver bullet. It's, it's very likely I've talked,

00:43:57.220 I've spoke to a few experts on the subject and it's very likely a combination of all of those things.

00:44:02.800 So we have xenoestrogens, which are just everywhere. These are chemicals that act like estrogens,

00:44:09.300 or at least they have some kind of affinity for the estrogen receptors in the body. We have chemicals

00:44:16.520 that can lower testosterone in men, less physical activity. So we're just weaker. You know, they did

00:44:26.800 a study on college aged men. I think it was about four years ago where they tested their grip strength

00:44:31.900 strength. And the average, the average college aged man today has the grip strength of a 65 year old,

00:44:39.020 something like three decades ago. So really, it's true. So we're just weaker. So that contributes

00:44:46.160 testosterone is a very reactive hormone. In other words, if a man is in a competitive environment,

00:44:54.220 you often see it rise. If you lose a competition, you see it lower. So it tends to be moldable to the

00:45:01.560 environment as well.

00:45:04.280 Men, let me just break away from the conversation Sal and I are having very, very quickly. We're

00:45:10.080 talking about getting strong. And speaking of getting strong, I want you to consider when is

00:45:14.060 the last time you spent any amount of time building and developing your mind? We know about developing

00:45:19.900 and building your body, but how about your mind? Because we all know to get our bodies in shape,

00:45:25.820 but how do you get your mind in shape? That's exactly, exactly what we address inside of our

00:45:31.900 exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. And when you band with us, you're immediately going to unlock

00:45:36.620 access to the over 900 other men who've all had a desire and drive to succeed and ultimately want

00:45:45.120 you to do the same thing. So we do this via a closed social media platform. So you can keep yourself

00:45:52.100 and your mind on track with the things that really matter, not what pop culture wants you

00:45:58.640 to care about. So if you're interested in banding with other men and learning what you need to do

00:46:03.460 to keep your mind and your body and your emotions and every other facet of life in check, then please

00:46:08.920 check out order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council.

00:46:15.160 You can do that after the show for now. Let's get back to it with Sal.

00:46:20.520 It's funny because I, you know, I, I've made a shirt and I called it the testosterone booster

00:46:25.280 and, uh, on the back of it, I don't know if you ever saw it, but it said, um, I think it said,

00:46:31.780 eat, eat me, lift heavy. I'm, I'm trying to remember all that I said, but eat me, lift heavy,

00:46:38.180 have sex, compete, win, be manly or something like that. And, and I had so many men and women

00:46:47.340 who mostly men actually, who were so offended by the shirt. Yeah. Yeah. And, and what's interesting

00:46:53.500 is that all of what I said yet now, maybe I said it in a short way, but all of what I said

00:46:59.780 has been clinically proven to boost and increase testosterone. But I had so many men get offended

00:47:08.160 and upset about that shirt. It was actually kind of comical and funny, which is why I made the

00:47:12.080 shirt in the first place. Yeah. It's, uh, it's been politicized. That's why it's so silly.

00:47:16.940 Yeah. Great point. It's been political. Everything's been politicized, right? Yeah. I'll give you one 0.81

00:47:20.760 more thing. This is my theory and funny things. I brought this up to, so we had Carol Hoeven

00:47:25.400 on the podcast recently. She wrote the book. Um, it's called testosterone, the hormone that divides us.

00:47:31.540 Uh, phenomenal guest. In fact, I think she would be great on your pod. I think you would

00:47:35.740 interview her and I asked her the following, um, you know, there's studies that show that when women 1.00

00:47:41.840 are on birth control, they prefer men who have less visible signs of high testosterone. When they're

00:47:50.800 not on birth control, they prefer men with more visible signs of testosterone. So how do they make

00:47:56.760 this test? They take faces and then they digitally masculinize them a little bit, or they digitally

00:48:04.360 feminize them a little bit. So it's the same face, right? So feminize, so softer lines, softer lines, 0.63

00:48:10.080 softer cheeks, no facial hair, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And then they'll masculinize it. Right. So 0.77

00:48:14.680 they'll show, and it's, it's subtle, but you can see the difference when women are on birth control. 1.00

00:48:19.100 They reliably will pick the more feminized face when they're not on birth control, especially when 0.99

00:48:25.160 they're ovulating, they want the more masculinized version. So, so what I'm hearing you say in this is

00:48:31.100 that if you want to be more attractive to the ladies, then you need to be more masculine and

00:48:36.060 you need to boost testosterone and you need to get involved with resistance training. That's what

00:48:41.120 I'm hearing you say. Yeah. Well, at least if you want to be more attractive to women, not on birth 0.61

00:48:45.180 control, but here's, here was part of my point. And now here's part of my theory that I brought up to

00:48:51.000 Carol and she thought it was fascinating. You know, we've had birth control widely available now for,

00:48:56.380 I don't know how many decades now, six decades or so. Perhaps women are, because birth control is so 1.00

00:49:03.080 widely used, perhaps they're selecting men with lower testosterone over these decades. Because

00:49:10.160 when you're, you know, it's funny, here's another study that you'll like. When women meet a man and

00:49:14.720 marry him on birth control and then go off, the divorce rate spikes. Her, her preferences change a

00:49:20.200 little bit. It's, and it's- Hold on. Let me wrap my head around that. So they marry a man while

00:49:24.860 they're on birth control. Then they get off of birth control and the divert divorce rates go up 1.00

00:49:30.600 because the man is more feminine than masculine. Is that what you're saying?

00:49:35.400 This, the theory is that perhaps the, they were attracted to the man because their hormones were

00:49:43.040 altered by birth control. And then when they went off, they now didn't find him as appealing or

00:49:50.620 as attractive. That's the theory. I would want, I would wonder if you saw

00:49:55.020 infidelity issues with more masculine looking men in that situation. I mean, anecdotally, I would just,

00:50:03.440 I would say, yes, of course, you know, but I, but I'd be really curious about that is that if the woman 1.00

00:50:08.920 will be attracted to a more masculine man, it seems to me that yes, the obvious answer would be yes,

00:50:13.900 of course. Yeah. You know, what's funny about that is, um, they try to connect higher testosterone to

00:50:20.360 infidelity, to aggression, to all these, you know, bad traits. But the reality is, uh, and we're talking

00:50:28.920 about within healthy ranges, right? Higher testosterone contributes to more calm, steady moods, uh, to men who,

00:50:39.160 um, tend to be more productive and have more drive. Uh, infidelity tends to be connected more to men

00:50:46.980 who, um, don't take responsibility. I mean, you know, this better than I do, you know, some of this,

00:50:52.680 some of these studies. So they do try to connect testosterone to a lot of bad things, but the

00:50:57.060 reality is testosterone, you know, lots of men low tip. Okay. This is true. Now low testosterone is

00:51:03.020 connected to irritability and aggression more than high testosterone. So long it's, is, as it's within

00:51:08.960 the normal range, right? We're not talking about these, you know, bodybuilding, you know, pro

00:51:14.240 bodybuilder ranges, uh, which we don't know what that looks like. There's no studies on that. We

00:51:18.900 can only assume, but within healthy ranges. Also manufactured, I think a lot too, you know,

00:51:23.660 we're, we're taking, uh, testosterone replacement therapy, that sort of thing. So a lot of that is not

00:51:29.300 natural. It seems to me that it's more fabricated and manufactured than, than naturally improved.

00:51:34.800 Oh yeah. Like low testosterone, anxiety, less drive, irritability. When you take those same,

00:51:41.120 same men and you bring their testosterone levels up to, you know, a high normal healthy,

00:51:46.520 they reduce their anxiety. They are in better moods, uh, more calm. So, I mean, that's a good

00:51:53.380 side note, right? That, uh, you know, and again, this is probably stuff you talk about on your show.

00:51:58.860 Um, or the testosterone has been demonized, um, as this bad hormone. It's not, uh, it's been

00:52:05.560 misinterpreted. Like you, you see things from, for example, the American psychological association

00:52:10.400 who comes out and says things that we would traditionally associate with, uh, testosterone

00:52:15.420 and masculinity, like, uh, stoicism or competitiveness or aggression or dominance. And we just automatically

00:52:23.120 assume or assign negative meaning to aggression or negative meaning to competitiveness or stoicism.

00:52:29.860 But, you know, when you take a step back, you really think about stoicism, the ability to read

00:52:34.280 and control your emotions. Is, is that a negative thing or, or, uh, competitiveness, the desire to

00:52:43.000 improve yourself, to get better, to make yourself more capable so that you can compete more effectively.

00:52:49.360 Is that a negative thing? No, it's not negative, but it's misinterpreted as being negative.

00:52:55.760 Absolutely. And there are, um, you know, dark sides or should I say dysfunctional versions of every

00:53:02.820 emotion and feeling. Right. I think it's a matter of making sure that we understand when we're taking

00:53:09.360 things too far, or like I said earlier, presenting false dichotomies. Uh, I know for myself personally,

00:53:17.520 I tend to become a very obsessive person. So if I find something I'm interested in, whether it's

00:53:24.220 podcasting or training or jujitsu or a hobby like hunting that I go all in at the expense of

00:53:32.800 everything else that I have going in and I get this tunnel vision and focus on this one thing,

00:53:38.220 which can be very good in certain instances. And it can be detrimental in a lot of cases.

00:53:43.380 Oh, 100%. And again, um, you know, we talk about certain male traits, but we forget that they,

00:53:51.800 that when they're healthy, they tend, they tend to be accompanied by other male traits like temperance,

00:53:57.620 um, you know, calmness, stillness, consistency. Right. Um, and also, you know, it's fine. I forgot who

00:54:07.220 said this, but someone brought this up. Um, there's this page that I follow. I can't remember the name,

00:54:10.840 but I'd love to give him a shout out, but very, very good at presenting these things. And he,

00:54:14.520 and he talked about how the man in, in mainstream media tends to not do this, but if you really

00:54:20.040 think about it, the guy that is really revered among other men is the guy that, for example,

00:54:27.120 just to use an example, the guy that if he wanted to, he could just, he could be with any woman that

00:54:32.140 he wants, but he, but he chooses to be with one and he values her and he cherishes her compare that

00:54:38.680 guy to the guy that, you know, is with every single woman that he wants to be with, which one will true

00:54:44.540 man, right? It's the one that, that chooses to be with one, but can be with all of them. Right. Or

00:54:51.220 the man who, if he wanted to, he could kick everybody's ass because he's super tough and 0.99

00:54:55.640 whatever, but instead he chooses to be, uh, you know, calm still to show mercy, to not display 0.99

00:55:03.940 violence unless absolutely necessary. That's the person that gains respect. And you see this even

00:55:08.260 in the animal kingdom among primates, the ones that are the alphas aren't the most violent, evil,

00:55:14.440 terrible ones. They're the ones that work the best with everybody else. Now, if they wanted to,

00:55:18.460 they could lay the smack down, but they don't, they often don't. So, I mean, I know this is a bit of a

00:55:22.760 sidetrack, but it's important conversation for sure. I really think it is. I, you know,

00:55:27.280 a lot of guys will talk about other individuals that they see or have an interaction with and,

00:55:32.220 and they'll say, you know, that guy's got the X factor, whether they'll, they'll verbalize it or

00:55:37.620 not. They see, right? Like, Oh, there's something about that individual. And I've seen men who I'm like,

00:55:42.800 man, what is it about this guy? Like, I'm, I'm actually intrigued. Like I want to be like this man.

00:55:48.160 And I think that's what you're talking about. It's capability. It's the ability to go out and

00:55:53.440 do what needs to be done, but the restraint to not have to prove yourself in every circumstance,

00:55:58.940 in every environment to, to, uh, uh, to get involved in every situation or every argument.

00:56:06.380 Like there's no need to do that, but only a confident and secure man can do that.

00:56:10.840 Yes, absolutely. 100%. I remember it's a funny story. You know, my father is somebody that I really

00:56:16.440 looked up to. He's a, he's a great man, immigrant came to this country, very poor, uneducated, 1.00

00:56:21.880 was able to provide his family with a middle-class life, always worked hard, very honest. Um, you

00:56:29.740 know, he was a judo practitioner when he was younger. One of the most, one of the strongest,

00:56:35.420 naturally strongest people I've ever known in my entire, I've talked about him on my show. It's

00:56:38.820 actually quite comical. Even now he's got arthritis throughout his whole body because he's been

00:56:43.220 working physical labor since he was a child. He grew up very poor, but the guy is just so strong.

00:56:47.160 It's insane. I remember as a kid, I'll never forget. We were in the car and we were driving

00:56:53.640 somewhere and there was this, there were two guys in another car and they were acting like assholes. 0.98

00:56:59.040 They were, you know, cutting us off and racing and slamming the brakes in front of us. And my dad, 0.98

00:57:04.700 I could tell was getting visibly angry, but he was keeping himself calm. They pulled up next to us.

00:57:10.300 They were trying to make eye contact. My dad stayed very calm, didn't do anything, kept driving.

00:57:17.320 At one point we pulled up to another stoplight. The guy got out of his car. My dad acted very

00:57:23.180 quickly, got out of his car, grabbed the guy by the, by the shirt and put him on the ground. He's

00:57:27.620 a judo guy. And then held him there. The other guy got up and actually took a step back. My dad

00:57:33.020 didn't beat their, he could have totally kicked the shit out of the guy. He was obviously scared, 0.98

00:57:37.180 realized that he messed with the wrong person, let him up. And the guy went in his car. I remember

00:57:41.640 the amount of respect I had for my father, not just for defending his family, but rather

00:57:47.180 for showing the, the control that he had. Oh my God. So much better than had, had he,

00:57:53.980 you know, exploded in the car and yelled and put his family at risk by racing the other car or trying

00:57:58.980 to drive. I'll never forget that. It was an incredible lesson, you know, like, and it was great

00:58:03.220 because it kind of showed all those things. So, um, you know, along those lines, it really,

00:58:07.680 you know, you reminded me of it, just talking about what we're talking about.

00:58:10.760 Man, I love stories like that because that's the kind of man I want to be, you know, I want to be

00:58:15.060 the guy who's fully capable of doing what needs to be done, but doesn't need to prove it to some

00:58:19.580 dipshit on the road who has road rage or, or, you know, some, some woman who's trying to get my 1.00

00:58:24.780 attention or like, that's the kind of guy I want to be. 0.96

00:58:27.900 Yeah, absolutely. 100%. And, you know, to kind of close this loop, there's lots of things that we

00:58:34.180 can do to make ourselves feel capable, to make ourselves feel empowered. Lots of things. There's

00:58:40.500 a, you know, there's, there's a broad range of things that we can do to do that. One of the things

00:58:45.580 that we can do is making ourselves feel physically stable and strong. Just feeling physically stable

00:58:54.300 and strong changes a lot in terms of making us feel more capable. Now I say, I see that in women 1.00

00:59:01.540 because I think women oftentimes don't realize that this is something that, that they'll notice

00:59:07.920 or they'll feel. But when I would train clients and I would say 70% of my clients as a trainer

00:59:13.580 were women, they tend to be the ones that hire trainers more often. I'll make a general statement.

00:59:18.920 I think women are a little bit better asking for help than guys do. And so they're the ones most 0.93

00:59:25.680 likely to hire trainers. So, yeah, like I said, I worked with a lot of women and one of the number 1.00

00:59:30.760 one most, I guess, most consistent comments I would get or most reliable comments or feedback I'll get

00:59:37.340 from a woman is how she would tell me she felt more confident because she felt stronger. You know,

00:59:44.100 I had one, I had one woman. She went on a business trip. It's after I trained her for a few months

00:59:48.600 and she came back and she was, she was so excited. She was almost emotional. And she was, I can't tell

00:59:56.640 you, I need to tell you something. I can't tell you how important this is to me. She was, I travel

01:00:00.520 for business all the time. You know this. And for the first time in years, I lifted my bag and put it

01:00:06.820 in the overhead compartment in the plane. Now I travel alone all the time. And I always have to

01:00:14.420 ask a guy on the plane to help me with my bag. I didn't have to do that this time. She goes, I can't

01:00:20.200 tell you how that feels. I feel so confident, so capable. Right. I had another client. This was an

01:00:27.880 old, much older woman. She was in her late seventies and she hired me because she was losing her abilities 1.00

01:00:33.620 to remain independent. Well, after about a year of training her, I was actually training someone else

01:00:38.080 at this time during a session. She walks in and at first I was confused because we didn't have a

01:00:42.420 scheduled appointment. And she goes, no, no, no, I'm not supposed to work out. She goes, but I need

01:00:45.760 to tell you this. She goes, I was literally next door. So I used to own a studio that was next door to

01:00:51.060 a grocery store. So she had gone grocery shopping and she says, I was able to close my SUV trunk. So she

01:00:58.180 had a big SUV. She'd pulled it down by myself. She's like, I haven't been able to do that for five

01:01:02.680 years. I have to ask the bagger to help me with that. She goes, I can't tell you how amazing that

01:01:09.240 makes me feel with your shoulders back, right? This is from strengthening your body, your shoulders

01:01:13.660 back, your core is more tight. Every step feels more stable, right? A lot of people don't even

01:01:20.100 realize this, Ryan, because they've not felt strong for so long that now becomes, they have nothing to

01:01:26.440 compare it to, but I'll tell you. And by the way, this isn't the only thing you can do, but there's so

01:01:32.140 many things you can do to make yourself feel more obviously empowered and capable. But when you

01:01:36.480 become more physically strong, you start to feel more capable. You know, it's funny, you know, not

01:01:43.420 to get political, but I'm about to a little bit. Did you know that they show study, there's studies

01:01:49.840 that show that when people work out and lift weights in particular, that their political views

01:01:55.700 start to change and become a little bit more conservative? Did you know that?

01:01:58.860 I mean, that doesn't surprise me, you know, because it's personal accountability. It's

01:02:04.040 personal responsibility. It's believing in the power of the human spirit. Like that doesn't

01:02:07.940 surprise me at all. Oh yeah. It's feeling more capable, less vulnerable, right? Less fearful.

01:02:14.140 And like you said, oh, I'm working on myself. So I feel more empowered. I'm accepting what I can't

01:02:21.200 change, but I'm realizing what I can change. By the way.

01:02:24.140 I'm wondering, I'm wondering about that though. Is that like a, like, are we measuring the wrong

01:02:28.860 thing? Because do those with a conservative political views tend to work out or is it that

01:02:34.760 those who work out tend to lean more conservative? Like what, what, what is the, you just see what I'm

01:02:40.620 saying?

01:02:41.060 Yeah, no, they actually do start. They actually have shown studies to show that political views

01:02:45.420 change as people become stronger and more fit. So they go into it feeling one way. And as they become

01:02:52.460 more and more fit, same thing with entrepreneurship, by the way, you become an entrepreneur, you remember

01:02:56.700 miraculously, you become a little bit more, more conservative. And I think that's obviously from

01:03:01.480 your experience of trying to run a business and you know what that takes. But by the way, this is why

01:03:06.920 if you haven't noticed this already, everything becomes politicized, right? Exercise and fitness,

01:03:12.720 and in particular strength training or resistance training is becoming politicized.

01:03:16.200 they're starting to say things like, um, you know, if you exercise in a gym, you're fat shaming,

01:03:23.280 you're not expecting, you know, you're not accepting yourself. You don't love your body,

01:03:26.220 which is complete opposite.

01:03:27.420 Right. Or there's probably some, if this hasn't happened already, I'm sure there'll be some sort

01:03:32.440 of thing. Like if you exercise in a gym, that's because you have some sort of privilege on the back

01:03:37.020 of somebody else, you know, like I'm sure we'll hear things like that if we haven't already.

01:03:41.180 Yes, totally. Because it's, uh, it's empowering when you feel empowered, when you feel strong,

01:03:46.920 when you feel capable, um, whoever's trying to control you, loses that, loses that control.

01:03:52.820 So not to say that there aren't conservatives who try to control you as well, but

01:03:55.840 Sure. Of course.

01:03:57.340 I think it's, I can, that it's the other side that does more of that.

01:04:00.840 So you're talking about the, the, the benefits of, of getting strong and, and, and building muscle,

01:04:07.960 but there's also the aesthetic appeal of it. And not just the appeal to members of the opposite

01:04:14.340 sex, for example, but I mean, look, I had a baseball coach when I was in high school and he

01:04:18.600 would always say, if you look good, you play good. And so he would, every year we would, we would have

01:04:24.620 to buy out of our own pocket, our own uniforms. The school would provide uniforms for us if we

01:04:31.120 desired, but our baseball coach required that we out of our own pocket, however we needed to do it.

01:04:38.080 And if we needed help, he would help us that we would go out every single year and we would buy

01:04:42.480 our own uniforms. And without that doubt, every year we were the best looking team in, in the region

01:04:49.960 beyond a shadow of a doubt. And he would always say that if you look good, you play good. And

01:04:54.920 that's true with your aesthetics. If you've got, you've got biceps and you've got abs and the shirts

01:05:01.580 are fitting you right. And your pants are right. And you're going down a size and maybe you're,

01:05:05.780 you know, your thighs are popping in your jeans because they're making skinny jeans and your thighs 1.00

01:05:09.620 don't quite fit in those regular jeans for modern society. Like you're just going to play better.

01:05:14.980 You're going to show up better. You're going to be more effective. You're going to look better to,

01:05:18.640 to the ladies and also to the men who would be led by you. So there's a lot of benefits

01:05:24.240 of, from the aesthetic standpoint as well. There is. And even if you get a little deeper

01:05:29.200 into it and you look at what we consider physically attractive, although a lot of it's been distorted

01:05:35.760 through, you know, plastic surgery and makeup and clothing and all that stuff,

01:05:42.520 the roots are really rooted in health. It's all rooted in health, right? So what looks healthy,

01:05:47.800 even though we may distort some of that, um, tends to be what's considered most attractive.

01:05:53.580 So what looks healthy in a man, uh, a shoulder to waist ratio. There's a particular shoulder race 0.91

01:06:00.200 ratio, right? Smaller waist, wider shoulders. Right. It's that triangle shape, that upside down

01:06:05.280 triangle. Yes. More muscle, less body fat. By the way, you don't have to be shredded and be unhealthy

01:06:10.380 lean, but have a general lean, uh, physique, good posture, signs of healthy testosterone.

01:06:17.360 What about women? Right. Uh, with women, there's a certain amount of curve that's considered 1.00

01:06:21.360 attractive. By the way, that comes from muscle. Uh, you build your butt, you build your hamstrings, 1.00

01:06:25.860 gives you some of that, that curve, good posture. That's another one, healthy hormone levels. Uh, 0.61

01:06:32.480 that's another one, right? How do you accomplish all of this in the best way possible? Well,

01:06:36.440 you become healthy. You be, you eat right. You become mentally, psychologically, spiritually healthy.

01:06:42.260 You lift some weights, you work out a little bit and yeah, that's going to, it's going to make you

01:06:47.520 appear more attractive to the opposite sex, but there's also that internal thing that's happening

01:06:53.180 as well, which is, uh, I mean, look, here's the deal at the end of the day, our body, our senses are

01:06:59.640 a filter for the world. And I, my own experience when I'm sick, things are more negative. Bad news

01:07:08.280 is worse. Good news isn't as good. I don't feel as positive, right? When I'm healthy and feeling

01:07:13.540 vibrant, bad news, not so bad. Good news is even better, right? It's a filter. So if you're healthy

01:07:19.880 and you're fit, you're more likely to view things positively. You're more likely to overcome

01:07:25.520 challenges or at least look at challenges like you're able to overcome them. I think, uh, one

01:07:32.140 thing that we're not looking at right now, and I, this, I talked about this whenever they try to push

01:07:36.000 the, the vegan movement on everybody, which I think is a terrible idea. I think, uh, for most people

01:07:42.520 doing that would be a bad idea is I tell people, you know, we're not counting the cost of poor health

01:07:49.460 on healthcare, which by the way, threatens to bankrupt us, but we're also not counting. We're also not

01:07:54.160 looking at something else that nobody ever counts. Healthy people produce better and innovate better

01:07:59.620 and solve problems better. Unhealthy people are way worse at all of that stuff. And the most valuable

01:08:05.800 things that humans do, uh, I think arguably is innovation and production. And if we're all unhealthy

01:08:13.020 and obese and we don't feel good, our hormones are off and we're medicated, we're just not going to do

01:08:18.120 those things as well. I agree. I agree, man. I know there's a lot to be said in this and you know,

01:08:24.880 what's interesting is we didn't really get into like the workouts and the movements. And cause I

01:08:31.200 think the conversations that you and I can have based on our past conversations are so much more

01:08:35.100 valuable than the workout. Like you can go buy the book and, and get the workouts, but I really want

01:08:41.000 to get to the root of the issue. And I think we did a great job explaining that to the guys. I mean,

01:08:45.200 it's been, it's been very valuable. And I know there's a lot of men who are going to get a lot

01:08:49.240 of value from what we talked about today. Well, you know, in the book, a majority of it is spent

01:08:52.980 on some of the stuff that we're talking about right now. So I talked about why resistance training is

01:08:58.180 the most valuable form of exercise, why we haven't considered for a long time, what the studies are

01:09:02.380 showing now, how it affects your hormones. The small part of the book is here's some exercises and

01:09:08.660 workouts you can do. Uh, if you, if you need some structure, but really the majority of it is I'm

01:09:13.820 making the case. Here's why two, if you only have two or three days a week that you can devote to

01:09:20.600 exercise and you want to not be obese, you want to make this easier on yourself. You want to have

01:09:26.360 better hormone levels. You want to improve your longevity. And you, you know, like most people,

01:09:32.960 you're not going to do tons of forms of exercise. You're probably only going to pick one. Why resistance

01:09:37.720 training is the form of exercise you should pick. And then I do go into how to do it properly and that

01:09:41.920 kind of stuff. But a majority of it is talking kind of about what we're talking about right now.

01:09:46.980 So it's a great book for that. It's a good book for people. If there's people, you, if you know

01:09:50.820 this already, and you've been trying to convince someone that this is what they need to do. And

01:09:55.320 they just, they're in that old mindset and they think, Oh, that's just for bodybuilders or meatheads.

01:09:59.680 Give them this book. It'll do a good job of convincing them otherwise.

01:10:03.260 Yeah. I love it, man. Well, tell us how we connect with you. Obviously we can pick up a copy of

01:10:07.940 the resistance training revolution, wherever you can get a book, but tell me about mind pump. Tell

01:10:12.700 me about where to connect with you. So the guys know exactly where to go.

01:10:16.100 Yeah, no problem. So obviously mind pump is the podcast that I host. You can find us on YouTube

01:10:21.740 or any podcast platform. If you want to find me directly, you can go on Instagram. Mind pump Sal

01:10:27.760 is where you'll find me. And, and that's pretty much it.

01:10:32.020 Right on, man. We're going to sync it all up. I appreciate our friendship over the past four years.

01:10:35.860 I was thinking about it the other day. We met, I think for the first time at the Spartan Rays

01:10:42.720 pod fest or whatever they called it. I don't know what they called it. And, uh, you guys were gracious

01:10:49.120 enough to invite me up to, to the house that you guys had rented out and man, our friendship over

01:10:53.980 the past couple of years has been awesome to see you guys grow, to know that we're growing over here

01:10:58.140 and to see what both of us are doing. Similar missions, different vein, both, I think really,

01:11:03.460 really important for the guys who are tuning in. So man, I appreciate you. I appreciate our

01:11:08.360 friendship. Yeah. I love what you do, man. It's a, and it's so important. It's more important today

01:11:14.080 than any other time I can remember. So keep doing what you're doing. And I predict the pushback is

01:11:19.500 going to get really, really bad and hard against, um, some of the stuff that, you know, you promote

01:11:25.160 and talk, stay strong, keep doing what you're doing. And if there's anything we can do to help,

01:11:28.620 let us know. Right on. Bring it on. You and I are both preparing for it. So bring it on.

01:11:33.440 It should be a good battle if anything else, but all right, brother, I appreciate you. Thanks for

01:11:38.220 joining me, man. Thanks. All right, you guys, there's my conversation with my friend and the

01:11:44.240 one and only Sal DeStefano. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. A lot of good questions, a lot of

01:11:48.980 conversations and veins that we went on that have to do with being a man and masculinity and why making

01:11:55.880 yourself stronger physically is going to help you be a more effective and capable man. Isn't it? And

01:12:00.720 isn't that what we all want, right? If you're listening to this, unless you're a woman and we

01:12:06.260 have plenty of female listeners, you want to make yourself strong and capable and bold and assertive.

01:12:10.880 And part of that is building your body and how that's going to translate to every other facet of

01:12:16.260 your life. So please pick up a copy of his new book, the resistance training revolution. Let me know

01:12:22.360 what you think about the conversation, the podcast, connect with me on Instagram, connect with Sal at

01:12:28.480 Sal, uh, at mind pump. Uh, and you can, you know, figure this out for yourself. Cause I think this

01:12:35.420 stuff is important. We've got the resources available to you. Now you just got to tap into

01:12:39.480 it. So connect with Sal. I think it's at Sal at mind pump. Sal, I believe is what it is on

01:12:45.600 Instagram. I think he just said that a minute ago. Uh, and then connect with me at Ryan Mickler.

01:12:50.060 Let us know what you thought about the show. Ask any questions he's available. I'm available.

01:12:55.060 Make sure you're sharing the conversation. Let guys know where you're going to learn all this

01:12:58.960 information and how you are personally improving yourself and your own life and the people

01:13:03.600 around you. So with that said, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our asking anything, but until then

01:13:10.820 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:13:16.180 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:13:21.200 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 17, 2021

SAL DI STEFANO ｜ How Resistance Training Improves Strength and Makes You a Better Man

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