Order of Man - Savage Son

00:00:00.000 My guest today is repeat guest, friend, former Navy SEAL, and author of the James Reese series,

00:00:04.920 which includes Terminalist, True Believer, and his newest book, which is released today,

00:00:09.600 Savage Son. His name is Jack Carr, and I take every opportunity to talk with him that I can.

00:00:15.020 And if you've listened to any of our previous episodes, you'll know exactly why. Jack is one

00:00:20.180 of the most genuine men I know, and I've always been fascinated with his transition from warrior

00:00:25.040 to author. Today, we talk about putting yourself in the public eye, pursuing something you've always

00:00:30.880 been interested in, how military combat compares to civilian life and the life of a writer,

00:00:35.920 and ultimately forging the path that you've always wanted to walk.

00:00:38.960 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:43.680 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:49.540 easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:56.720 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:02.040 yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the

00:01:07.540 founder of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. Wow, guys, we live in an incredibly

00:01:12.520 crazy time right now. And frankly, I can't think of a better time to apply everything that we have

00:01:19.380 been talking about regarding reclaiming and restoring masculinity over the past five years.

00:01:25.060 We're dealing with some very serious threats in the public, obviously health threats and health

00:01:30.540 concerns that we need to be worried about for ourselves and our families and loved ones. But I

00:01:35.200 also think that there is a greater threat, and that is the encroachment on our freedoms and our

00:01:42.900 liberties. And it's going to take strong men to step up, strong men to lead in their families and in

00:01:50.100 their communities and politics and at higher levels within the state and federal government.

00:01:55.340 It's crucial that we understand what it means to be men, that we know the distinction of being a good

00:02:02.060 man and also being a capable man, that we use our voice and our platform and the technology we have

00:02:09.040 to share what it means to be a man, how we're applying this information, how we're serving

00:02:13.800 ourselves and our loved ones and our neighbors and our communities and everything that we're trying

00:02:17.640 to do. And I would ask as we continue to go down this very dangerous and potentially destructive

00:02:23.900 path that you please share this. All right, we need more men in the fight to reclaim and restore

00:02:28.860 masculinity. And we need more men who are engaged in improving themselves as hot husbands,

00:02:33.900 fathers, business owners, community leaders, every facet of life that they're showing up as

00:02:38.160 I know you're doing your part, but I would also ask that you share this. You can leave a rating and

00:02:42.140 review. You can share this. You can send somebody a text. You can subscribe to the podcast or the

00:02:49.180 YouTube channel, whatever you can do to get this word out. It's very, very crucial that we do so.

00:02:54.720 So I'll leave that to you. We've got obviously this show, our interview show. I'm interviewing

00:03:00.660 Jack Carr today. And we sat together, I think it was two or three months ago. We sat down at

00:03:06.720 SHOT Show in Las Vegas before the fallout of coronavirus. But we've got other guys on Tim

00:03:11.620 Kennedy, Jocko Willink, David Goggins, Grant Cardone, Andy Frisilla, Brian Rose. The lineup of

00:03:18.180 men we've had on is absolutely incredible. So please, if you would share that. Now, guys, before I get

00:03:23.100 into the meat of the discussion, just want to introduce a new product that's available for from

00:03:28.680 origin. And that is their Delta mask. They've used their denim. They've shut down, I believe two or

00:03:34.020 three of their denim production lines. And they're now making and creating masks for us and for those

00:03:42.000 on the front lines of this coronavirus fallout. So check it out. Very cool mask. It's called the Delta

00:03:46.720 mask. It's got a very comfortable stretch form fitting to your face. And it's going to not only

00:03:52.500 feel right and feel like it fits perfectly, but it's going to do the job as well. So check it out

00:03:57.140 at origin, main.com origin, main.com. All right, guys, let me introduce you to Jack. Most of you are

00:04:03.420 familiar with Jack. You've read his books, his last two, maybe not the third one, Savage Son, which is

00:04:07.100 released today, April 14th, 2020. My guest again, he is Jack Carr. He spent over 20 years in naval

00:04:14.420 special warfare as a seal sniper, a troop commander, and a task unit commander leading

00:04:19.480 teams in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's probably a big reason that his last three books are

00:04:24.200 so credible. He's used his decades of combat experiences, the foundation for the immense

00:04:30.480 amount of research. If you read his books, you know what I'm talking about that go into his works.

00:04:34.860 Jack is also an avid hunter. He's a husband. He's a father. He's a hell of a guy as I've gotten to know

00:04:39.380 him and his family over the past several years. And we've broken bread together and he shared

00:04:43.220 meat from his hunts. And I've really enjoyed our friendship. And as an update, since we originally

00:04:48.000 recorded this specific episode at SHOT Show several months ago, Jack's book Terminalist will

00:04:52.980 become a TV series with Chris Pratt playing James Reese. So I wanted to give you that update as well.

00:04:58.600 Guys, I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

00:05:02.620 Jack, what's up, brother? Good to be sitting down with you.

00:05:04.500 How's it going? Great to see you.

00:05:05.440 Yeah, you too.

00:05:06.860 We didn't meet here for the first time, did we? We had already met in Utah.

00:05:10.560 Yeah, I think we had met in Utah. I'm trying to think how we got connected. I don't know.

00:05:15.500 It might have been social media. But you came up to the house first, I think.

00:05:19.420 Yeah, which I...

00:05:19.820 And then we met again here, right?

00:05:21.240 That's right. Yeah, you had me out. And the first time I was up there, you shared some

00:05:23.880 wild game with me, which I thought was pretty gracious of you.

00:05:27.300 Well, thank you. Well, we certainly have enough to share.

00:05:29.580 Yeah, well, that's a good problem to have. Yeah, I think you shared some elk with us, which

00:05:34.940 I'm sure is long gone by now.

00:05:36.340 Oh, yeah. Yeah, we moved on from the moose to the elk. I think there's a place in Colorado

00:05:40.540 I need to go visit because they have my daughter's elk from last year still.

00:05:45.200 Oh, is that right? She shot a nice elk last year.

00:05:47.300 She shot a good one. Yeah, it was awesome. It was a great shot.

00:05:49.440 Did you have a scored?

00:05:50.560 No, I mean, again, I still have to go pick up the mount and all that. It's been a busy year.

00:05:56.440 Was that her first elk?

00:05:57.700 No, she got one when she was 10. She's 14 now.

00:06:00.740 Oh, okay.

00:06:01.120 But when I got out of the military, one of my retirement gifts, somebody got me an elk hunt

00:06:05.340 for me and my wife together to go to New Mexico and have a great experience out there.

00:06:10.240 And I'd gotten an elk a couple years earlier with a muzzleloader. I had an amazing hunt,

00:06:14.420 public land, my first elk hunt. It was incredible. And so I asked him, hey, thank you. I was like,

00:06:18.800 thank you so much, but you can have my daughter and wife go and I'll just go along with them.

00:06:23.540 Sure, tag along with them.

00:06:24.060 And he was like, absolutely, let's do it.

00:06:26.320 And she was 10 at the time?

00:06:28.080 She was 10.

00:06:28.800 Awesome.

00:06:29.000 And it was actually crazy because it was a place in New Mexico that used to be a ski resort,

00:06:33.420 I think in the 70s and 80s.

00:06:34.640 Okay.

00:06:34.960 And then it kind of went under, so there's still some homes up there.

00:06:37.940 And the ski resort, the runs are still there-ish.

00:06:41.200 Right.

00:06:41.700 But there's nobody else up there.

00:06:43.560 Really?

00:06:43.760 So the runs, they'll go out and eat and it's amazing.

00:06:47.520 That's awesome.

00:06:48.360 Yeah, she took one shot, the 300 blackout, off sticks, 300 some yards.

00:06:52.620 And she's been shooting since she was, gosh, I don't know, five.

00:06:55.360 I imagine it's pretty much in her blood.

00:06:57.520 And it was, well, I think so.

00:07:00.000 I mean, she's, yeah, she's tough.

00:07:01.820 I was talking with somebody the other day, they were saying, and I actually agree with

00:07:05.260 this, is that women tend to be better shots.

00:07:07.000 Oh, it was Bruce, the president and CEO of Leupold.

00:07:10.000 Well, I think it's because they take better direction.

00:07:12.080 We're like, I know all this already, you know?

00:07:13.640 Ego doesn't get in the way.

00:07:14.560 Exactly.

00:07:15.060 There's that, but then the other side of it, too, is that there's no pressure to perform.

00:07:18.240 Like, I felt that way when I go on a hunt is I feel a sense of pressure because, you

00:07:25.040 know, I want to make my wife and kids specifically proud.

00:07:28.760 And then there's a bunch of people that follow me, you know, and I'm like, oh, I want to shoot

00:07:33.060 this because then they could see the picture or whatever, you know?

00:07:35.700 And so we put a lot of undue and unnecessary pressure on ourselves and it hinders performance.

00:07:40.980 Yeah, maybe.

00:07:42.160 And then, but the other part of that is that husbands, spouses, boyfriends should not be

00:07:49.460 teaching their significant other how to hunt or shoot.

00:07:52.940 I don't think that works out very well.

00:07:54.540 It's always...

00:07:55.140 Oh, because just the contention that it creates?

00:07:58.100 Yes.

00:07:58.740 I took my wife to the top of Mount Shasta, not that long after we were married, but it

00:08:04.340 was really her first time backpacking, mountaineering, that sort of thing.

00:08:07.080 And you're roped up and you got crampons on your boots and you're starting at like one in

00:08:10.000 the morning and you're heading up and it was cool.

00:08:12.180 And it was her first time just backpacking, but it was really mountaineering and hitting

00:08:15.340 the summit that's 14,000 feet.

00:08:17.900 And I was like, you got to drink something on the way, you got to drink something.

00:08:20.660 Here's some of this goo stuff that's kind of new at the time and take this.

00:08:23.940 And she's like, you can't tell me what to do.

00:08:25.360 Oh, really?

00:08:25.860 And then I'm like, it's really important.

00:08:28.140 You need to hydrate.

00:08:29.680 And then the guy, we had a guide come over.

00:08:32.180 He's like, you really need to have a little water and some goo.

00:08:34.500 She's like, okay.

00:08:35.340 Like, what?

00:08:36.300 I've been telling you that for two hours.

00:08:37.560 I was just saying that.

00:08:38.700 Come on.

00:08:39.420 So they have a term for that.

00:08:40.820 It's, it's apparently it's called mansplaining.

00:08:42.500 You're not supposed to do that.

00:08:43.560 Is that right?

00:08:44.240 Well, that's, I hear about all these terms, you know, like the things that men do wrong

00:08:49.280 in the world.

00:08:49.680 Yeah.

00:08:49.880 But you hear all that stuff.

00:08:51.600 I'm inundated with it.

00:08:52.780 That's true.

00:08:53.400 I get, I get messages from people just about every day.

00:08:56.320 Like here's an article about why masculinity is bad.

00:08:59.580 And here's this article about this woman trying to become a man or this man trying to become

00:09:03.540 a woman.

00:09:03.920 And it's like, oh my gosh, it's, it's crazy.

00:09:06.760 Oh yeah.

00:09:07.240 You must get inundated with that stuff.

00:09:08.580 I do.

00:09:09.740 But I'll take it back to the elk hunt.

00:09:11.220 So my daughter takes this shot, 300 yards off sticks, 300 blackout.

00:09:15.140 And the guide's like, miss.

00:09:16.960 And it just disappears.

00:09:18.180 Right.

00:09:18.460 So I'm like, oh, you know, it's okay.

00:09:20.520 You know, it's a, you know, did you, what was wrong with the shot?

00:09:23.920 And they feel off with it.

00:09:25.080 And she's like, no, good shot.

00:09:27.380 Clean shot.

00:09:28.140 She knew she, she knew she hit it.

00:09:29.780 Yep.

00:09:30.060 And I'm like, well, I thought it was just a kid.

00:09:31.340 Like, you know, not wanting to say it.

00:09:32.840 It's a, there was a lot of pressure.

00:09:33.820 Like the guide was a little younger and he was like, you know, putting a lot of pressure

00:09:36.520 in it, which is probably not the best way to go.

00:09:38.900 And we walk up there, no blood, don't see anything.

00:09:41.500 And, you know, the guide's like, you know, he saw, he said he saw some dust come up in

00:09:45.460 the back.

00:09:46.020 And he's like, well, we'll just walk up here and check it out.

00:09:48.380 And we walked up for a little while and you don't see anything.

00:09:50.680 We come back, not 20 yards away from where that thing was standing.

00:09:54.600 And it just moved a little bit, just on this little knoll and disappeared.

00:09:58.240 Really?

00:09:58.520 And it was just there.

00:09:59.120 One shot.

00:09:59.500 Just there, dead.

00:09:59.860 Heart and lung.

00:10:00.540 It was amazing.

00:10:01.300 Heart and lung.

00:10:02.040 Yep.

00:10:02.460 Wow.

00:10:02.760 Just took it right out.

00:10:03.980 Yep.

00:10:04.340 Yep.

00:10:04.500 You got to be pretty proud about that, I'm sure.

00:10:06.200 It was awesome.

00:10:06.480 Yeah.

00:10:06.820 She was very proud of it.

00:10:08.020 Well, she should be.

00:10:08.820 I think that's a, that's a pretty cool thing.

00:10:10.440 I took my son on a hunt.

00:10:12.060 This was last year.

00:10:13.540 It was a pig hunt and he was shooting with a crossbow.

00:10:15.780 Made a great shot on a pig.

00:10:17.640 It was a little high.

00:10:18.800 And you know, when you get on those pigs a little high, like it just hits that armor, that protection

00:10:22.840 they have and man, we just couldn't recover it.

00:10:25.240 We looked for a long time and even the dogs, they couldn't find it like it, but it was

00:10:29.540 kind of disappointing because he was so excited about it.

00:10:31.940 And it was funny because we were sitting under the blind and we heard these pigs come from

00:10:34.920 behind us and they ran out in front of us and I'm like, all right, dude, you ready?

00:10:38.060 And he's all nervous.

00:10:38.800 He's like, yeah, I'm ready.

00:10:39.740 So he gets his crossbow out and I'm like, just, you know, breathe, pick out.

00:10:42.860 There was maybe 10 pigs there.

00:10:44.320 I'm like, just pick out the one you want.

00:10:46.040 Good broadside shot.

00:10:47.100 And he's like, I'm like, you got a good one?

00:10:48.220 He's like, yeah, are you ready?

00:10:48.960 I'm like, yeah, I'm ready.

00:10:49.540 And he's like, well, get the camera.

00:10:52.300 Oh no.

00:10:53.500 I know, it's so crazy.

00:10:55.060 I'm like, oh, okay.

00:10:55.560 So I grabbed my phone and I record it and he's like, and I said, okay, just breathe.

00:10:59.760 And when you breathe, squeeze the, and he, doom.

00:11:02.920 I'm like, oh my God, that was quick.

00:11:04.480 And it had the nocturnal on the bolt.

00:11:06.660 Okay.

00:11:07.280 And man, we, so he ran off and we looked at him like, dude, that's a kill shot.

00:11:12.240 Great shot.

00:11:13.240 But I think it was just a little too high.

00:11:14.780 And those pigs are so resilient anyways.

00:11:16.620 Yeah, they're tough.

00:11:17.200 Yeah.

00:11:17.440 They're tough.

00:11:18.020 Have you done anything in Maine yet?

00:11:19.320 Have you gotten out there yet?

00:11:20.500 Yeah, we went hunting this year.

00:11:22.880 You're in a great spot now.

00:11:24.000 It's amazing.

00:11:24.700 We are in a great spot, but there's not as much wildlife as I would have thought.

00:11:28.560 Really?

00:11:28.920 Yeah.

00:11:29.160 I mean, if you get a little bit further north, you can get into the moose.

00:11:31.720 And I had a couple of buddies shoot some really nice white tail bucks this year.

00:11:36.960 But my son and I went out.

00:11:39.540 Man, we didn't, I didn't see a single thing.

00:11:42.240 Not one deer while we were out hunting.

00:11:43.720 We got some on the game trails, or excuse me, the game camps.

00:11:49.340 But yeah, most of them are nocturnal, so they didn't even, we didn't see anything.

00:11:53.160 Got it.

00:11:53.520 So it was a couple of little eight points in there, a couple of six points, but that's

00:11:57.200 about it.

00:11:57.760 You guys loving Maine?

00:11:58.760 Love it.

00:11:59.380 Love it.

00:11:59.860 It's incredible.

00:12:00.420 I can't wait to get out to visit.

00:12:01.780 I've told you before, it's one of those states that I've never been to, but I've been thinking

00:12:05.780 about since I was a little kid.

00:12:06.880 Yeah.

00:12:07.160 Well, the offer is on the table.

00:12:09.640 Anytime, all you have to do is, hey, here's a weekend, or hey, we're going to be up in that

00:12:13.620 area.

00:12:13.960 I know you were, it seems like you were in the area, New England area, maybe for, or

00:12:18.160 New York anyways, for the launch of your books.

00:12:23.420 Where was I back there?

00:12:24.280 From your books?

00:12:24.840 This summer, I was back there.

00:12:26.040 I typically go to, I end up in New York a couple of times a year now because of the publishing

00:12:29.780 thing, and that's where Simon & Schuster is, and all that.

00:12:33.040 Oh, but I'll tell you what, so we're at SHOT Show, for people that can hear this going

00:12:35.340 on in the background.

00:12:36.100 It's a little noisy.

00:12:36.660 And SHOT Show 2020, and I've been coming to these things since, I think, 2003 or 2004.

00:12:40.600 That was really that long?

00:12:41.440 Yeah.

00:12:41.640 Wow.

00:12:42.300 I always wanted to make sure my guys had the best, latest stuff, and I was always a gear

00:12:45.200 guy, even growing up before the Navy, and then obviously in the military, and then

00:12:48.260 even out of the military.

00:12:49.200 It's just something I'm drawn to, and how do you make this stuff better, how to get you

00:12:52.520 out there longer and faster, and be more effective and efficient with what you're using.

00:12:55.800 But I brought my publicist from Simon & Schuster here, and for someone from New York.

00:13:02.900 This is the first time here?

00:13:03.940 For him.

00:13:04.640 I met him yesterday.

00:13:05.940 Yep, yep.

00:13:06.240 Great guy.

00:13:06.720 And he is awesome, but from New York and that building and that area, a lot of them don't

00:13:13.200 really realize that there are things like this out there that happen.

00:13:17.140 And it's amazing how massive this is.

00:13:19.240 This is crazy.

00:13:19.960 I mean, how many acres do they say this thing is?

00:13:21.360 I have no idea.

00:13:21.860 It's insane, but he came out here and saw all of this and was like, man, he just couldn't

00:13:26.240 believe it.

00:13:26.820 Oh, yeah.

00:13:27.020 He just could not believe it.

00:13:29.060 And he had a great time, though.

00:13:30.560 He had a blast.

00:13:31.420 And that was my favorite part, though, was introducing him to this community and to all

00:13:35.900 these people, to all this gear, and to all these people that seem to be very passionate

00:13:40.240 about the books.

00:13:40.920 I mean, it's crazy that these things, these lines that have been for these signings.

00:13:45.020 And it's just, I feel so fortunate.

00:13:46.360 It's incredible.

00:13:46.920 Well, I was interviewing a mutual friend, Clint Emerson, also same publicist, right?

00:13:52.320 Yeah.

00:13:52.840 Anyways, I was having a conversation with him yesterday, and we were at the booth next

00:13:55.700 to you, and I saw that line for people.

00:13:59.840 I mean, it was, and you did the same thing last year, right?

00:14:01.500 You were signing books last year, but it seemed like it was even more so this year.

00:14:05.000 Yep, I think so.

00:14:05.860 And this year, people are, it's kind of strange.

00:14:08.020 It's, people are recognizing me, and it's more so from, like, Instagram, social media stuff.

00:14:13.080 Yeah, it's such a powerful tool.

00:14:14.500 It is, and I've had so many people stop me to say that they appreciate my message, they

00:14:18.120 appreciate me being positive, and what I'm posting, and all that stuff.

00:14:21.060 And, you know, I never gave it a thought until a couple, maybe a month or two before the first

00:14:24.780 book came out.

00:14:25.420 Exactly.

00:14:25.600 Like, I never really thought about social media other than I don't want to do any of

00:14:29.000 that stuff, especially in the military.

00:14:30.740 And then even afterward, it was just so foreign.

00:14:32.560 Oh, it's so weird.

00:14:33.280 So I didn't grow up to it.

00:14:34.020 But, yeah, it is a powerful tool, and it would be very difficult not to be yourself on there,

00:14:40.260 and people can see right through that, just like you can in a conversation with somebody.

00:14:43.220 No doubt.

00:14:43.680 So it's, and it wasn't available to authors 20, 30 years ago.

00:14:47.520 So for me, it's like, it's an emerging opportunity, the same way I'd see an emerging opportunity

00:14:52.000 on the battlefield, and take advantage of that, just like the enemy's doing to us.

00:14:56.300 Well, in this space as well, like this podcast, doing these, these are things that weren't

00:15:00.580 available to people to build a readership in this, in the publishing space 20, 30 years

00:15:05.440 ago.

00:15:05.660 So it's an emerging opportunity, and it's a great excuse to hang out and talk.

00:15:09.340 Yeah, that's true.

00:15:09.920 That's my favorite part.

00:15:11.180 Well, the thing that's nice about it, too, is you maintain some of that power, not powerment

00:15:17.600 necessarily, but control over your own, the way that you run it.

00:15:21.300 I mean, even traditional publishing, I imagine, has taken a real hit as social media has become

00:15:26.420 to increase, and self-publishing has become more viable.

00:15:30.200 I still think there's a lot of benefits to having a traditional publisher.

00:15:32.700 I'm sure you do as well, which is why you do, but yeah, I think it's kind of leveled

00:15:37.820 the playing field quite a bit.

00:15:39.240 Oh, yeah.

00:15:39.520 I mean, there's like, if you didn't have that option, if you didn't have a big publishing

00:15:42.680 house 20, 30 years ago, what were you going to do?

00:15:45.080 Right.

00:15:45.440 And then self-publishing comes in, and then what?

00:15:47.580 Then how do you promote?

00:15:48.920 Oh, now there's social media.

00:15:50.300 So it's all these things kind of just started lining up and give people an opportunity now

00:15:55.100 to really make it on their own and create their own brand, create their own business,

00:15:59.600 and create their own following and create relationships with customers.

00:16:03.320 Like, I look at this as, this is my storefront.

00:16:06.380 Social media is my storefront.

00:16:08.180 Like you said, I control that side of it.

00:16:10.620 Just like if I owned a small general store in a little town somewhere, and somebody came

00:16:14.260 through that door to get a carton of milk or to ask me for directions, well, that's my

00:16:19.120 interaction with them right there.

00:16:20.960 And I want them to leave and tell their friends to come to my store or to just have a good experience

00:16:26.400 and just be a good person and give them directions, and off they go on their way.

00:16:29.540 But I look at social media as the same thing.

00:16:32.080 So when I interact with someone there, that's my storefront.

00:16:34.900 And that's how I portray myself there is the same way I would if we're face-to-face and

00:16:39.720 you walk into my store to buy a candy bar or buy a six-pack.

00:16:44.900 So that's kind of how I view social media and these platforms.

00:16:48.640 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely good for that.

00:16:50.600 And it's interesting, too, because it's not so hard-charging on the sales side of things,

00:16:54.420 right?

00:16:54.700 It's here's the personality, here's who I am as a person, here's what I believe.

00:16:59.220 Hey, you can be a member of this community, because it really is kind of like a community.

00:17:03.140 Oh, and by the way, if you want to read a book, or in my case, you want to join the Iron

00:17:07.780 Council or go to one of our events, then we have those options available.

00:17:11.540 But social media has just been a great way to develop and build relationships.

00:17:15.760 I mean, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if it weren't for social media.

00:17:19.520 That's it.

00:17:19.940 And I think you have to offer something of value that, like you said, that's not a sales pitch.

00:17:24.800 Just like it's value-added for someone to walk into your store and get directions.

00:17:28.040 Right.

00:17:28.220 So when some people go to your posts and read them and interact with you, maybe on there

00:17:32.620 with some comments or whatever it is, that's giving them something of value.

00:17:39.000 And then they can either maybe take it to the next step and listen to the podcast or go to

00:17:43.720 the Iron Council or buy your book or whatever else it is.

00:17:45.540 Right, whatever it is you're doing.

00:17:46.580 Maybe they do or maybe they don't.

00:17:47.660 Maybe they just like following you and like your message.

00:17:49.500 But you have to provide something of value.

00:17:52.180 Yes.

00:17:52.400 Otherwise, people will not go to your site and then they won't do those other things that

00:17:57.020 are essentially putting food on the table.

00:17:59.480 Yeah.

00:17:59.740 Outside of the books that you write, what do you feel is the value that you're offering

00:18:03.340 via social media and just your interactions with your audience?

00:18:06.460 There's a few things.

00:18:07.360 And one of them is to show people or just to kind of be an example of, hey, you can make

00:18:14.420 the life you want.

00:18:15.360 Like you don't have to just look at something that you want to do or wish you could do and

00:18:19.500 think to yourself, oh, but I can't get that.

00:18:21.220 How am I going to get it?

00:18:21.880 I'm not going to get there.

00:18:22.860 That's for somebody else.

00:18:24.120 No, you have one ride on this planet.

00:18:26.960 One.

00:18:27.520 This is a one ride deal.

00:18:29.340 And you get to decide, especially in this country.

00:18:31.840 Yes.

00:18:32.160 You're not in every country.

00:18:32.980 But in this country in particular, you get to choose your destiny.

00:18:38.240 You get to make these decisions.

00:18:39.480 You get to decide what you want to do with your life and how you're going to get there

00:18:42.220 and what legacy you're going to leave behind.

00:18:43.800 That is all 100% up to you.

00:18:46.280 And it's all due to the people that gave us those options by what they sacrificed to create

00:18:52.480 this country.

00:18:53.300 Right.

00:18:54.000 And so I think about that a lot.

00:18:55.560 I talk to my kids about that a lot.

00:18:57.040 And I think that the decisions that we make today in our lives should in some way, shape

00:19:03.200 or form at least, usually pay homage and tribute to those people that died, that sacrificed

00:19:08.680 so that you can have the opportunity to choose your destiny.

00:19:12.480 There's a lot of irony in modern times with people that complain and bitch and moan and

00:19:17.200 gripe about, you know, whatever, whether it's soldiers or whether it's how this country

00:19:21.780 came to be, it's like, you know, it's really ironic that you'd be complaining about that

00:19:25.720 and mocking that when you're the beneficiary of the reward of those sacrifices.

00:19:34.520 Oh, yeah.

00:19:34.920 Right?

00:19:35.140 Like, it's ignorant, but it's also just ironic and a little pathetic at the same time.

00:19:40.040 I know.

00:19:40.900 That's the toughest.

00:19:41.760 And we have it pretty easy today.

00:19:43.720 Yes.

00:19:44.220 Really easy.

00:19:44.880 We have it pretty easy.

00:19:45.880 Definitely.

00:19:46.240 The way we can get our food and clean water and these opportunities that are available.

00:19:51.100 And then how all these platforms would allow us to complain about everything as well.

00:19:56.100 So, yeah, you can go through life like that.

00:19:58.200 I mean, that's your, and that's a choice as well.

00:20:00.200 Sure.

00:20:00.760 But you're not offering anybody anything of value.

00:20:03.060 Right.

00:20:03.400 By doing that.

00:20:04.220 Well, and you just are, I mean, you've got to be a miserable human being, you know, like

00:20:07.540 you, and even if you don't feel like you are, you're living an inferior life because

00:20:11.680 that, that, that behavior is rubbing off and not only is it rubbing off, but it's translating

00:20:15.660 to other areas of your life.

00:20:16.800 Oh, yeah.

00:20:17.160 So, if you're negative, for example, on, on social media towards somebody who's trying

00:20:21.120 to do good, uh, you can't tell me that that doesn't affect the way that you approach your

00:20:25.600 clients or your employment or your relationship with your kids and wife.

00:20:30.060 It's wasted bandwidth.

00:20:31.140 For sure.

00:20:31.800 That time could have been spent doing something positive.

00:20:34.480 Yes.

00:20:34.660 And instead you chose to do something negative.

00:20:36.620 Yeah.

00:20:36.900 And tear somebody else down or just, oh, it's, it's, it's crazy.

00:20:39.800 But, uh, so in something, when I'm, when we talk about offering something of value, so

00:20:43.640 I think that's it is just, uh, as the example to show, to example, Hey, you can make the

00:20:48.040 life you want, because this is what I wanted to do since I was a little kid.

00:20:50.300 And also, you know, don't pay attention to those odds.

00:20:52.560 Like there'd be so many people that are telling, that will tell you, uh, let's pretend like

00:20:55.900 you say you want to start a podcast and people, I'm sure a couple were like, Oh, he's

00:20:59.480 going to start a podcast.

00:21:00.400 Yeah.

00:21:00.680 Okay.

00:21:01.080 Here we go.

00:21:01.520 Yeah.

00:21:01.980 Right.

00:21:02.800 So if you listen to the, don't listen to those people, obviously.

00:21:07.040 Yeah.

00:21:07.160 Um, so never pay attention to the odds or the people that want to tell you the odds

00:21:11.660 or how hard something is going to be, just get out there and do it, do the work.

00:21:15.640 Right.

00:21:15.900 Um, so those things.

00:21:16.820 And then I love throwing in a little bits of history here and there that have kind of

00:21:20.280 become lost.

00:21:21.460 It's interesting.

00:21:22.460 You're, you're, you're a page because you talk about, uh, terrorist acts and the, and

00:21:27.620 you know, this person was born and on this date, this embassy was attacked.

00:21:30.680 And I always find that really fascinating because that information is just isn't readily available.

00:21:35.140 Yeah.

00:21:35.220 And it's strange because I grew up with it and that was what I gravitated towards.

00:21:38.420 I mean, before we, you know, we had time magazine at our house, we had newsweek magazine at

00:21:41.560 our house.

00:21:41.880 We had a couple of newspapers at our house and bill articles and, uh, and, and newspaper

00:21:47.440 columns that I would right away gravitate towards when my parents were done with it.

00:21:51.180 All had something to do with terrorism.

00:21:52.560 All had something to do with the military.

00:21:53.680 And so I remember that.

00:21:54.800 I think all those things happened, those, that eighties type terrorism, late seventies or

00:21:59.080 to early nineties terrorism, uh, all happened at a very formative time for me.

00:22:03.080 Um, so from 40, we're in my 46 now.

00:22:05.840 So, uh, in 1980, I'm six, uh, seven.

00:22:09.420 And, uh, I remember all those things happening.

00:22:12.080 I mean, I remember desert one.

00:22:13.140 I remember the hostage that I remember every night, Walter Cronkite on the news, counting

00:22:16.980 down the days until those hostages were eventually released minutes after Ronald Reagan became

00:22:21.880 president.

00:22:22.220 Uh, I remember TWA, eight, eight, eight, four, seven.

00:22:24.860 I remember the Beirut bombing.

00:22:26.340 I remember the embassy bombing in Beirut.

00:22:28.000 Uh, of course, Lockerbie, a little older than, um, so all those things were just kind

00:22:33.060 of forged me into who I was becoming.

00:22:35.220 Right.

00:22:35.620 Um, because that resonated with me.

00:22:37.240 That was my fight.

00:22:37.940 Like even back then, I knew that was going to be my fight, even though it was the cold

00:22:41.680 war and you had the Russian stuff going on and all that stuff.

00:22:44.020 And, uh, you know, before the, before the wall came down, but for whatever reason, I

00:22:47.880 just knew terrorism was my fight because, uh, that one of those first memories is, uh,

00:22:51.760 is of, uh, Tehran and it was of, uh, eventually of desert one.

00:22:55.420 Uh, so now being able to go back and a lot of people don't remember that stuff and we get

00:23:01.460 so distracted, I think today.

00:23:02.780 And if you're growing up in the age of social media, uh, what, what, what is your, what

00:23:06.180 are your formative events today?

00:23:07.940 Uh, if you missed nine 11, if you were too young for nine 11, which is so weird because

00:23:12.020 nine 11, you think about there, there's, there's people that are what, like they're

00:23:17.120 18, they weren't even born, you know, that's crazy to me to even think about.

00:23:22.560 Cause that seems like just yesterday.

00:23:23.780 Oh yeah.

00:23:24.300 I remember when some people were joining the military that were in fifth grade, sixth

00:23:28.280 grade, seventh grade, when nine 11 happened, I thought, oh my gosh, this is, you know,

00:23:31.240 so, and now we have a few that weren't even born that are trying to join the military.

00:23:34.860 Right.

00:23:35.200 Um, so yeah.

00:23:36.040 And they're, I mean, what are their memories going to be, especially when they grow up with

00:23:38.920 these phones in their hands and being inundated with, uh, you know, influencers and whatever

00:23:43.980 else it is.

00:23:44.560 And some that might not be the most healthy people to follow.

00:23:47.000 And, uh, so you gotta be very careful, I think about, uh, who you follow and who your,

00:23:51.300 uh, your children follow.

00:23:52.360 And, uh, you know, kind of encourage them to, uh, to, to, to, to follow people that are

00:23:58.960 positive and we have positive influence.

00:24:00.880 Right.

00:24:01.060 It's just a different medium, just like the books I read growing up, uh, hardbacks, paperbacks,

00:24:05.660 uh, uh, newspapers, magazines, well, you know, similar stuff.

00:24:09.820 It's similar stuff, but it's online and you're not controlling what comes to that front door

00:24:14.020 either.

00:24:14.360 So you got to pay a little more attention as a parent.

00:24:15.900 That's true.

00:24:16.400 But, uh, but it can be a powerful tool.

00:24:17.740 I think you can follow amazing people that are inspirational and that, that don't suck

00:24:21.680 you in all day.

00:24:22.920 Uh, but let's give you a little bit, maybe of encouragement because you see that they face

00:24:26.320 some adversity.

00:24:26.940 I think that's one of the most important things is realize that everybody that got to where

00:24:30.180 they are, no matter where it is, they faced adversity at some point along the way.

00:24:33.280 They might not talk about it all the time that not, might not be what they highlight.

00:24:37.360 Um, but they face adversity for sure.

00:24:40.540 Uh, even people that were handed things, it's a different kind of adversity that those people

00:24:43.560 are going to face.

00:24:44.380 Yeah.

00:24:44.640 Um, but everybody is going to face challenges and you're going to have to overcome those

00:24:47.780 things.

00:24:48.020 And what, uh, what says the most about you is how you deal with those and how you get

00:24:52.260 up after you're knocked down.

00:24:53.100 So, um, so it can be powerful if you see those examples and all you take from them is, man,

00:24:57.920 you know what, this is about, uh, getting back up and moving forward.

00:25:01.440 Right.

00:25:01.680 That's life.

00:25:02.160 What is your, uh, what's your thoughts when you share the type of things you do with,

00:25:05.800 with terrorism and with these activities and historic events?

00:25:08.600 What, what is, what is it that you want to communicate?

00:25:11.280 Like why share those things?

00:25:13.000 I think it's because it ties back to the book.

00:25:14.680 It ties back to me as a person because I remember them.

00:25:17.540 I think about them.

00:25:18.300 I tie that history into the novels.

00:25:20.120 So it's a very natural thing for me to think about, to talk about, to reflect on, and,

00:25:25.060 uh, then look at those lessons.

00:25:26.200 Like what can we learn from, uh, from Beirut and how we responded to it?

00:25:29.860 Uh, so we responded to, to that with, uh, some harsh rhetoric and then a few months later

00:25:35.500 we left.

00:25:36.460 So what message does that send me to me?

00:25:37.860 Right.

00:25:38.300 And what did that, what did that mean for us later down the line?

00:25:41.060 So it's more, more of that type of thing.

00:25:43.740 And it's something that I think about a lot and, uh, just being presenting myself as I

00:25:48.500 am, uh, on these platforms.

00:25:49.980 It's just a natural thing for me to, to talk about and put up there and post.

00:25:54.100 Right.

00:25:54.780 One thing I've always wanted to ask you, cause we've been friends for a little while now

00:25:57.560 is, um, you, you, you are a, what I would consider a kind person, your, your demeanor

00:26:02.200 and how you communicate and that you truly do care about people from my perspective is

00:26:06.020 what I see.

00:26:07.420 And, and I'm trying to think the right wording and maybe this isn't the right wording,

00:26:10.080 but maybe unassuming a little bit for, for this bad-ass Navy SEAL.

00:26:14.900 So it's, the disconnect for me is always, it's, it's just interesting for me to make

00:26:22.800 that connection.

00:26:23.780 I'm really curious about, especially since you've dealt with it, it sounds like.

00:26:27.680 Yep.

00:26:27.860 No, I've dealt with that, uh, probably my whole life and I've dealt with it.

00:26:30.640 It's just like me.

00:26:31.320 It is what it is.

00:26:32.140 Right.

00:26:32.300 Yeah.

00:26:32.420 But, uh, yeah, last night, even somebody said at one of the, uh, one of the events last

00:26:35.640 night, they said, Oh man, I read you.

00:26:37.780 You're so nice.

00:26:38.500 How could you write this stuff in a book?

00:26:40.760 It's like, where did that come from?

00:26:42.560 Like you had some issues.

00:26:43.480 Um, but, uh, yeah, it's just for me, I think it was, you know, expenditure of energy, I

00:26:49.780 think.

00:26:49.960 And I don't think I, I thought about it this way growing up.

00:26:52.500 I was just me running around, doing my thing, you know, knowing where I was going to go and

00:26:55.380 how am I going to get there?

00:26:56.080 Okay.

00:26:56.200 I'm going to run real fast.

00:26:57.060 I'm going to run these hills.

00:26:57.900 I'm going to, you know, do some pull-ups, do some, be, be ready to go.

00:27:00.540 I'm going to read about all this terrorism stuff as prepared as I can possibly be.

00:27:03.080 Cause I know my path from an early age.

00:27:05.420 Um, but I don't have to be like mean about it or crazy about it.

00:27:08.900 Like I can still do that stuff with a smile on my face.

00:27:11.220 Yeah.

00:27:11.380 It's not a requirement that you'd be a dick or something.

00:27:13.120 Yeah, exactly.

00:27:13.780 Yeah.

00:27:14.240 So, uh, and, and I, I did, I don't know, I know where all the different influences come

00:27:18.400 from.

00:27:18.600 Like who makes us, who we are, you know, nature, nurture, all that sort of thing.

00:27:21.780 But, uh, for whatever reason, it always appealed to me to, uh, be one, why wouldn't you want

00:27:27.420 to be kind to people?

00:27:28.520 Right.

00:27:28.840 Uh, but be prepared to flip that switch and put them into the ground.

00:27:32.340 Like that is just, that's why, why be mad all the time?

00:27:36.080 I'm going to be tired.

00:27:36.780 It's probably going to tire me out.

00:27:37.420 Yeah.

00:27:37.440 Great point.

00:27:37.920 Great point.

00:27:38.220 I'm just looking around all the time, ready, waiting for a fight and like looking for a fight

00:27:41.080 or, uh, you know, uh, whatever.

00:27:43.660 Uh, that's exhausting.

00:27:44.820 Yeah.

00:27:45.040 Like that's tiring for me.

00:27:46.440 It's, uh, much more efficient, I guess, and effective for me to, and it's natural for

00:27:51.240 me to, to want to be kind and want to help people and, uh, and just be me, but also to

00:27:55.540 have those skills.

00:27:56.240 And I started from a very early age, boxing when jujitsu first came to this country, I

00:27:59.600 was, I was in right away early nineties.

00:28:01.320 Yeah.

00:28:01.420 Yeah.

00:28:01.900 And in the early nineties, you know, you take a couple of classes and you're going to be

00:28:03.960 good for a few, like, like you were good until about 96, 97, and then people really

00:28:09.300 started to get a little better.

00:28:10.200 Started to get good.

00:28:10.900 Yeah.

00:28:11.180 And then 2001, 2003, 2004, then they got a lot better.

00:28:13.960 And today, oh man.

00:28:14.980 Jeez.

00:28:15.260 Like my skills that I thought were really good back in the early nineties, early to

00:28:18.260 mid nineties, like nothing.

00:28:19.860 That's the thing is I, is I see, like I train with some guys and I'm like, man, I'm not getting

00:28:23.100 better.

00:28:23.420 I'm like, well, no, I am getting better.

00:28:25.300 And so are they, we're, we're, we're getting better together.

00:28:28.880 And so it doesn't feel like you're improving, although you might.

00:28:31.460 Yep.

00:28:31.680 No, exactly.

00:28:32.440 So just be prepared.

00:28:33.540 You know, and it's as easy as that, that Boy Scout motto resonates, um, because it's important

00:28:38.060 to be prepared.

00:28:39.640 Uh, and part of that is being able to defend yourself, defend your family, defend your country.

00:28:42.940 And what does that mean?

00:28:43.640 It means training.

00:28:44.160 It means knowing how to use these firearms, all these different platforms, knowing how

00:28:46.800 to use knives, knowing how to use hatchets, knowing how to go empty hand, um, before it

00:28:49.980 was called combatives, you know, and, uh, and knowing how to do all those things and being

00:28:53.420 able to flip that switch and knowing when the time is to flip that switch.

00:28:55.880 A lot of guys have a problem with that impulse control.

00:28:58.840 I think, uh, especially when you're younger, it's more natural to want to, you know, jump

00:29:02.520 right into it and kind of prove yourself.

00:29:03.860 Just like we want to go to combat.

00:29:05.260 Um, you know, if your country's at war, that's where a lot of us want to be.

00:29:09.260 Um, but same thing, you know, with, if you weren't in the military, I guess there's probably

00:29:12.260 these primal, uh, primal urges to flip that switch and test yourself.

00:29:15.720 Um, but, uh, against somebody else, mano a mano, hand to hand, whatever it may, whatever

00:29:20.140 it may be, but be prepared.

00:29:22.160 Right.

00:29:22.440 Because other people are out there training and, uh, you're never going to be, you're

00:29:25.260 never going to be the best.

00:29:26.320 Uh, you're never going to be that top dog.

00:29:27.720 There's always someone out there that'll be able to take you down.

00:29:30.460 No doubt about it.

00:29:31.900 Right.

00:29:32.180 And that's been in the, that's been in the deal since the beginning of time.

00:29:35.160 Um, so being prepared for all that stuff and being able to flip that switch.

00:29:38.580 And that's why I want to make my character kind of the same way.

00:29:40.540 I wanted to, uh, make my character in the novels, James Reese, uh, a guy you'd want to

00:29:44.280 sit down and have a beer with.

00:29:45.480 And, uh, but then you could also flip that switch and get it done and had the skillset,

00:29:49.480 had the knowledge base, had the experience to make what he was doing believable.

00:29:53.520 Uh, while at the same time, not making him a Superman, because as we all know, you're, you

00:29:58.320 don't, no one's good at absolutely everything out there.

00:30:00.920 Right. And nobody would relate with that.

00:30:03.060 Exactly.

00:30:03.380 It'd be hard to relate with if that were the case.

00:30:05.940 Yep. So I try to make him, uh, and it seems to, it seems to be working.

00:30:09.120 I mean, it's, uh, he's resonating, he's registering with people.

00:30:11.980 And, uh, and I think it's one of those things where you have a relationship with a character.

00:30:15.380 You want, you invest in that character and you want to see what happens next.

00:30:18.240 And, uh, that's some of the best storylines out there.

00:30:21.140 Uh, you know, people cared what happened to, in, in, in Tom Clancy novels,

00:30:24.080 want to know what happened next with Jack Ryan and John Clark when he hit the scene.

00:30:27.280 And I want to know what happens next with Mitch Rath and Scott Harbath and all these guys.

00:30:30.920 Um, because you're invested in them emotionally.

00:30:32.980 You have a relationship with this character and it's from the written page

00:30:35.060 or it's from the screen that you're watching in the movie.

00:30:37.260 Um, but, uh, same way with, uh, I thought about that.

00:30:40.140 It was very deliberate as I was, uh, creating this character.

00:30:42.540 That's awesome.

00:30:42.980 Yeah.

00:30:43.120 I want to come back to the novels here in a minute, but one thing that I admire about

00:30:46.340 you going back into this, this kindness or niceness is, is a level of maturity.

00:30:51.580 And I think that's really what it is, is that it's, it's knowing that you can do what you

00:30:56.580 need to do and what needs to be done, but not feeling the need to posture for it or to

00:31:01.840 prove that you can do it.

00:31:03.400 You know, you can just act when, when the time comes and when the necessary, the, the

00:31:07.900 situation, you know, requires it.

00:31:10.080 Yep.

00:31:10.260 And that's just, that's just natural, you know, for me.

00:31:12.160 And I didn't really put any thought into that.

00:31:13.460 Just how I grew up and how I was.

00:31:14.980 So I didn't try to make myself anything different other than just make myself better at the skills

00:31:19.220 that were going to help me in my, my life doing what I was going to do.

00:31:22.320 Um, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, it would be, I mean, maybe for the people that do do that,

00:31:27.140 the posturing and we're very tough out, whatever, um, you know, that's, that might be just natural

00:31:31.820 for them.

00:31:32.140 It might be hard for them to be like me or whatever.

00:31:34.720 So yeah, it's just, uh, it's just a different way of approaching things.

00:31:38.180 And like, if they were to try to, to be kind and nice, that might be just as exhausting

00:31:42.940 for them.

00:31:43.620 So it might come across disingenuous and therefore undermine their own efforts, you know?

00:31:48.220 And again, you don't being, being nice.

00:31:51.220 It's not like you have to be on one side of the spectrum or the other, like you're only

00:31:54.500 kind always, or you're only a dick every time.

00:31:57.580 Like there's, there's some middle ground, right?

00:31:59.480 And you got to find that middle ground based on what you're trying to accomplish.

00:32:02.060 I mean, for those children of the eighties that are, that are listening with Roadhouse,

00:32:04.940 I mean, here we go.

00:32:06.100 Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

00:32:08.020 Yes.

00:32:09.020 I like it.

00:32:09.920 I like it.

00:32:10.820 Yeah.

00:32:11.060 So, uh, I want to talk about the, the book and a savage son.

00:32:16.160 Um, but what, before I get into that, what, what's next is how many books are in the, in

00:32:21.240 the series or how many novels do you see coming from it?

00:32:23.540 As long as people want to keep reading them and Simon and Schuster wants to keep, uh, keep

00:32:26.860 me doing this.

00:32:27.420 And he doesn't get caught or killed.

00:32:28.620 I'm in.

00:32:29.200 Exactly.

00:32:29.720 I mean, I guess you could do that at some point, but it's, uh, I think it's, uh, it'd

00:32:33.000 be difficult to, uh, create character that people would resonate, would resonate with

00:32:37.700 so much.

00:32:38.040 That's so much of me.

00:32:38.900 I think that's why it's a lot of this is working because he has the same background that I

00:32:42.700 do.

00:32:42.900 He likes his coffee the way I do, drives a car that I do, you know, those things.

00:32:46.160 Yeah.

00:32:46.440 Um, so, so that's why I think it resonates because, uh, cause they're real.

00:32:50.880 The emotions that he feels are things that I felt downrange at certain points in time.

00:32:54.280 And I just took him and took those emotions and applied them to a completely fictional

00:32:57.880 narrative.

00:32:58.360 Right.

00:32:58.480 Um, so I think I, you know, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm attached to this character and, uh, and

00:33:04.560 I, I'm going to keep doing it as long as people want to, want to keep reading.

00:33:07.300 Yeah.

00:33:07.660 Um, but yeah, I wrote down about six or seven different ideas for the first novel.

00:33:11.520 Sure.

00:33:11.700 And so those ideas are now becoming the next novels in the series.

00:33:14.660 Okay.

00:33:14.760 So I spread those out on the table and I thought, you know, which one of these is going to resonate

00:33:18.160 the most with readers?

00:33:18.920 Which is the most primal, which is the one that, uh, is most visceral and the one that

00:33:23.340 is most apt to, uh, uh, to appeal to a New York publishing house.

00:33:28.180 Right.

00:33:28.420 Um, and that was the theme of revenge, uh, just because there's something about that

00:33:32.640 theme that resonates with us.

00:33:33.820 Uh, and there's, there's a reason there's so many death wish movies and it's just some,

00:33:38.020 one of those things that, that, uh, has been part of the, the storytelling tradition from

00:33:42.820 the beginning of time.

00:33:43.780 So I wanted to tap into that.

00:33:45.740 It's so satisfying.

00:33:47.020 It is.

00:33:47.580 And you can't do that stuff.

00:33:48.540 That individual deserved that.

00:33:50.120 And you're right.

00:33:50.720 I can't, I'm too, we're too civilized for me to be able to do that.

00:33:54.440 So I'm glad that James can go ahead and take care of that.

00:33:56.480 That's right.

00:33:57.360 Exactly.

00:33:58.180 Uh, exactly.

00:33:59.260 So, uh, so that's why I chose that one right out of the gate.

00:34:02.200 Yeah.

00:34:02.440 And then, uh, the second, and then out in the second one, it had to be a novel of redemption.

00:34:05.920 Uh, this character had to learn to live again and he had to transition just like we do

00:34:09.380 leaving the military.

00:34:10.220 Had to find that next purpose in life.

00:34:11.860 Had to find that next mission in life.

00:34:13.540 And I thought it would be disingenuous just to toss him into another adventure or take

00:34:16.600 the, take what worked in the first novel and then just drop it into an international

00:34:19.440 stage.

00:34:19.900 Just regurgitate it.

00:34:20.940 Yeah.

00:34:21.120 I was very cognizant of that.

00:34:22.400 That's good.

00:34:22.880 And, uh, I wanted to, I wanted to take readers along on a journey with him, a journey of redemption

00:34:27.560 and transformation.

00:34:28.820 And, uh, then this third one though, this is the one that I've wanted to write since sixth

00:34:31.380 grade.

00:34:31.680 I think you told me that the last time we had a conversation.

00:34:35.580 Yeah.

00:34:35.660 Probably.

00:34:36.300 It's, uh, I'm so excited about it.

00:34:37.460 So tell me the, the, the premise, the theme, and then we can talk about why you didn't make that

00:34:41.780 one, the first one knowing that you've wanted to write it for so long.

00:34:44.540 So, uh, yeah, Savage Son is the third one coming out, uh, April 14th and the, it's a

00:34:49.680 tribute really to a novel or a short story that I read back in sixth grade called the

00:34:53.740 most dangerous game by Richard Connell, which was a short story written in 1924.

00:34:57.420 And back then there were a lot of, uh, stories out there about hunting and people going to

00:35:01.080 Africa and that sort of thing.

00:35:02.600 And this guy took that, uh, that, that very popular storyline and then flipped it around.

00:35:07.980 And he is a story of hunter versus hunted, but people hunting one another.

00:35:12.600 And I just, when I was a kid in sixth grade reading that, it was the best thing I'd ever

00:35:16.440 read.

00:35:16.720 And I thought that one day I would write a novel, the fictional thriller that paid tribute to

00:35:22.060 that story.

00:35:22.700 Interesting.

00:35:23.060 And, uh, so that was Savage Son and, uh, it really explores the dark side of man.

00:35:27.200 Right.

00:35:27.500 That's really the, the theme.

00:35:29.060 And, uh, I didn't choose it first because I didn't think that the characters were at a

00:35:33.140 place where it would, uh, uh, where it would make sense to throw them into this particular

00:35:38.100 storyline.

00:35:38.560 Not enough development then.

00:35:38.860 Exactly.

00:35:39.380 Uh, story.

00:35:40.660 Yeah.

00:35:40.780 I needed to get them there.

00:35:41.680 Right.

00:35:42.060 And, uh, it's just the third, the third, uh, the third book in this, uh, in this saga totally

00:35:47.520 made sense to, to be Savage Son and to be the tribute to the most dangerous game.

00:35:52.340 So I'm super fired up.

00:35:53.840 And then there's some other things in there as well.

00:35:55.080 And I give credit in the acknowledgements to all these people that have influenced me,

00:35:58.120 these authors that have influenced me throughout my life.

00:36:00.140 And, uh, people that have read First Blood written in 1972, well published in 1972, written,

00:36:05.040 uh, late sixties, early seventies, uh, by David Murrell, created the character Rambo, really

00:36:09.260 different than the film.

00:36:10.080 Both are fantastic.

00:36:11.080 I'm sure.

00:36:11.360 And if you haven't, if you're a fan, you should definitely go back and read that.

00:36:14.060 I haven't.

00:36:14.080 I'll have to check that out.

00:36:14.580 And it's, uh, it's never been out of print since 1972.

00:36:17.060 First Blood.

00:36:17.540 Okay.

00:36:17.700 Yeah.

00:36:17.980 It's not been out of print since 1972.

00:36:19.640 Is that right?

00:36:20.200 Did you watch the latest Rambo?

00:36:21.400 Of course.

00:36:22.360 Of course.

00:36:22.720 I didn't watch it, but did it flop?

00:36:24.620 There was no way I was not going to love it.

00:36:26.860 Really?

00:36:27.160 I mean, I grew up.

00:36:27.660 You had just made the decision.

00:36:29.120 Like, I will, I'm going in and, uh, I'm going in and I'm going to love it.

00:36:32.240 I'm going to love this thing.

00:36:32.920 Yeah.

00:36:33.080 Like that's just, you know, I could go in and pick it apart and be, have negative, of

00:36:36.980 course.

00:36:37.280 See, the problem for me is if I go in with the expectation that I'm going to love it or

00:36:40.440 this is going to be good, it always is underwhelming.

00:36:43.140 Yeah.

00:36:43.420 I don't do that typically with movies.

00:36:44.700 Okay.

00:36:45.020 Yeah.

00:36:45.180 But because I have just such a, such a connection to the character.

00:36:48.220 Right.

00:36:48.420 Growing up, I watched all these films at a very formative time in my life.

00:36:52.100 Uh, now I know the author.

00:36:53.100 David Morrell is a great friend of mine now.

00:36:54.600 That's pretty cool.

00:36:55.160 Um, and it's just, it's incredible.

00:36:56.440 So I was going to love it no matter what.

00:36:58.440 So I did, uh, but the novel is really a refighting of the Vietnam war on U.S. soil.

00:37:04.120 Okay.

00:37:04.420 Uh, for those that are first blood fans, you have Colonel Samuel Troutman.

00:37:07.700 Remember, remember him?

00:37:08.500 Yep.

00:37:08.600 The character.

00:37:09.040 Yep.

00:37:09.280 Uh, so his name is Sam for a reason.

00:37:11.360 Uncle Sam.

00:37:12.060 He's the establishment.

00:37:13.240 And, uh, and then the end, I don't know, this is written in 1972.

00:37:16.480 So I feel like I shouldn't, you know, you haven't read it.

00:37:18.780 So I'm not going to, I'm not going to spoil it.

00:37:20.120 A lot of people probably haven't.

00:37:21.280 So I won't spoil, I won't spoil it.

00:37:23.160 Although I do feel since it was written and published in 1972, I shouldn't have to abide by

00:37:27.780 a spoiler alert at this point, 40 years, 40 plus years later.

00:37:30.820 But, uh, the point being that like that, there's some, some, uh, some, some language that was

00:37:35.540 very deliberate that I put in there to pay tribute to that novel, uh, to Last of the

00:37:39.380 Breed by Louis L'Amour.

00:37:40.580 For those that haven't read that, I read that in the mid eighties, amazing book.

00:37:43.920 So, uh, so that one also, uh, influences.

00:37:46.380 And then, uh, one called Rogue Male that was written in, I think 48, I want to say.

00:37:50.980 Okay.

00:37:51.120 Um, but, uh, so, and it was, uh, it was a, um, kind of a landmark, uh, novella at the time.

00:37:57.040 And so all those things, all those books that influenced me,

00:38:00.280 I, uh, I somehow paid tribute to them in the pages of Savage Son, which was fun for me.

00:38:05.960 Men, let me hit the pause button really quickly.

00:38:08.140 Um, I've got to say that regardless of the issues that you may be dealing with due to

00:38:11.380 the fallout of coronavirus, this time can truly be a blessing in disguise.

00:38:15.840 If you're willing to look at it that way, and then actively work towards solutions.

00:38:19.920 Um, I can't think of a time where I've been more focused and distraction free in my life

00:38:23.920 than right now.

00:38:24.900 Over the past four weeks, I've lost 11 pounds and two and a half percent body fat.

00:38:29.760 I increased revenue by 23% over the previous four weeks.

00:38:33.600 I completed my gym build out, completed my podcast studio renovation.

00:38:37.380 I've read six books.

00:38:38.620 I'm going to talk more about that because we've got podcasts with these authors.

00:38:42.040 Uh, I've completed the outline of my next book.

00:38:44.280 I've secured seven or eight high caliber podcast guests for this podcast.

00:38:48.900 I've appeared on 12 other podcasts.

00:38:50.860 Uh, man, we've reached over a hundred thousand YouTube subscribers.

00:38:54.100 Things are going very, very well right now.

00:38:55.780 And I don't, I don't tell you that to brag.

00:38:57.780 I tell you this because there is a tremendous opportunity for you to crush your life right

00:39:02.380 now.

00:39:02.860 And if you're interested in how I've done all of that over the past four weeks and how

00:39:07.400 thousands of other men are doing it, then I want you to consider joining us inside the

00:39:11.520 iron council.

00:39:12.500 If you've been listening to the podcast, you know all about it.

00:39:15.180 I've been telling you about it long enough by now, but I'd strongly encourage you to get

00:39:19.020 off the sidelines and into the game.

00:39:21.040 Even if you try it for 30 days to see what it is we're doing and what it's all about so

00:39:25.720 that ultimately you can produce the results you're after and squeeze the most out of every

00:39:30.440 single minute that you have.

00:39:32.100 Uh, if you're interested and you want to learn more and you want to lock in your spot, then

00:39:35.440 head to order a man.com slash iron council again, order a man.com slash iron council.

00:39:41.080 We'll let you do that.

00:39:42.120 After I finish up my conversation with Jack Carr.

00:39:46.900 It's interesting from, from being a layman, right?

00:39:49.720 Just looking from the outside in and knowing that I either like a novel or don't like a

00:39:53.300 novel, right?

00:39:54.080 I don't know.

00:39:55.280 I couldn't put my finger on what it is that I enjoy about it or, or don't enjoy about other

00:39:59.560 novels.

00:40:00.340 And I think you're, you're alluding to that.

00:40:02.080 It's, it's the, it's the little meanings in there that aren't completely obvious, you

00:40:06.780 know, like, like Sam, for example, I would have never put that together.

00:40:09.400 Uh, it's the character development that you don't think about.

00:40:11.900 And sometimes you have this character and you're like, man, I don't even know this guy

00:40:15.440 and he's doing this weird thing, or he's doing something that's out of character that's already

00:40:19.140 been developed and there's no congruency there.

00:40:21.800 Uh, these are probably things that I, I imagine you place a high priority on and I don't even

00:40:26.060 consider them, but I know it, I know what it feels like and it's not there, although

00:40:30.340 I can't articulate it.

00:40:31.300 Oh, absolutely.

00:40:31.920 And there's a reason that, uh, that there are similar themes for the hero's journey, uh,

00:40:36.600 from the beginning of time through cultures that never have had any interaction with one

00:40:39.620 another.

00:40:40.280 Um, and they all follow a similar theme.

00:40:42.200 There's a, there's a reluctant hero that goes on a journey.

00:40:44.940 Typically he meets a mentor, somebody older along the way that gives him either knowledge

00:40:47.940 or a tool to help him fulfill his, uh, his destiny and his journey.

00:40:51.100 Uh, he's tested in some sort of a crucible along the way and then he emerges transformed

00:40:56.600 and comes back to pass those lessons along to the next generation or back to his country,

00:41:00.960 his culture.

00:41:01.320 Um, and the external battle is just a symbol of the internal battle that's being waged.

00:41:06.400 There you go.

00:41:06.600 Yeah, sure.

00:41:07.380 Pretty much in all of us.

00:41:08.280 It's pretty, uh, pretty interesting.

00:41:09.740 We're all on a journey.

00:41:10.480 We're all going to be tested.

00:41:11.820 And, uh, and, and if you think back to your favorite books, favorite movies, um, and you

00:41:16.080 think of it in terms of that hero's journey, that classical, uh, Joseph Campbell came up

00:41:20.120 with the hero's journey.

00:41:21.000 Okay.

00:41:21.220 Hero with a thousand faces.

00:41:23.160 And, uh, and if you think about things in those terms, you'll say, oh my goodness, look

00:41:27.000 at that.

00:41:27.280 My favorite stuff does follow that.

00:41:29.520 Those similar things.

00:41:30.140 Everything, everything.

00:41:31.220 I was listening to, uh, Charlie Kirk's podcast the other day and he was talking about, I

00:41:36.360 think it was Charlie Kirk or, or Ben Shapiro, but they were talking about Star Wars and they

00:41:40.880 were talking about some of these most iconic stories and movies and books and they all follow

00:41:47.160 that, that Saint Lord of the Rings, you know, they all follow that same exact pattern.

00:41:51.480 And I think the reason it resonates is because we see ourselves in the character or we want

00:41:56.140 to espouse some of the virtues that the character does.

00:41:58.200 Like we want to be like that individual to some degree.

00:42:01.160 Oh yeah.

00:42:01.920 And at the beginning of time, it was really meant to pass on lessons, those lessons that

00:42:05.920 someone's learning in blood out there, whether it's from the hunt or whether it's from a

00:42:09.540 battle, but pass those on to the next generation.

00:42:11.620 They couldn't write it down.

00:42:12.440 So they did it in the, in, uh, through the, uh, you know, the, use the paradigm of a story

00:42:17.260 and put it into that, uh, that motif and, uh, pass those along in a way that would be remembered.

00:42:22.220 So, uh, and then transformed along the way and became written down and then, uh, then continues

00:42:26.780 to go to this day and everything from comic books to movies, whatever it is.

00:42:30.140 So it's, uh, there's something about that journey that resonates with all of us because

00:42:33.140 we are on that journey, each and every one of us, and we're all going to be tested.

00:42:35.600 Yeah.

00:42:36.220 And, uh, and then how we remembered that legacy that gets passed down is going to be how we

00:42:40.800 responded to those failures and to that test.

00:42:43.160 Yeah.

00:42:44.160 Story is powerful.

00:42:45.340 It's, it's, it's like the old adage, you know, a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a

00:42:49.380 wise man learns from the mistake of others.

00:42:51.180 Right.

00:42:51.600 And that's why, that's why story is important is we can learn those lessons without having

00:42:56.680 to go through the consequences ourselves.

00:42:58.140 Cause somebody learned that lesson the hard way.

00:42:59.960 Somebody learned that lesson in blood.

00:43:01.720 There's a reason you do certain things in the, in the military.

00:43:04.340 Uh, and a lot of them is because, uh, because someone else learned it in blood for you.

00:43:08.080 So as a, uh, as a tribute to that person or those people that died,

00:43:12.780 that's, uh, I think that's why it's so important to, to know that history, uh, know why that,

00:43:18.100 that happened and know why you're doing things the way you're doing them.

00:43:20.300 And not just be like, you know, I got a better way.

00:43:22.760 Maybe there's a better way, but at least know where it came from so you can put it in its

00:43:28.220 proper context and then develop it.

00:43:30.100 And then just like we do, just adapt, move forward, make it better.

00:43:33.100 And, uh, and that's what they would expect us to do.

00:43:35.360 Yeah.

00:43:35.600 That's a good, that's a good point.

00:43:36.940 I guess the question is, where do you, uh, where do you question the way it's always

00:43:42.600 been done?

00:43:43.720 Oh, it's good to question.

00:43:44.580 Absolutely.

00:43:45.280 But also know that history.

00:43:47.360 I guess knowing is important, right?

00:43:48.640 Sometimes we're so ignorant to it and we just, we don't know why it's done that way.

00:43:52.360 We don't, we don't consider the history behind it or the context or the nuances that we don't

00:43:56.640 see.

00:43:57.340 And so we're making these decisions or taking these actions based on things we have no awareness

00:44:02.360 or, or, or knowledge of.

00:44:04.560 Yep.

00:44:04.940 No, absolutely.

00:44:05.580 And it's, uh, and it's good to question obviously.

00:44:07.560 And then when someone says something like, oh, that's the way we always do it.

00:44:10.920 Um, and that's really why I think that some of this, these things that I've done on social

00:44:13.700 media, um, why they're working is because I didn't have that background.

00:44:16.560 I didn't have that on my last job.

00:44:17.800 This is the way we always did it.

00:44:18.900 Sure.

00:44:19.200 I didn't have a last job where I always did it.

00:44:20.820 I just had to look at it, kind of look at, oh, I like this from this person.

00:44:23.440 I don't like this over here.

00:44:24.740 Uh, okay.

00:44:25.140 I kind of get how this works.

00:44:26.180 Okay.

00:44:26.520 I'm just, why don't I just be me and here we go.

00:44:29.040 Yeah.

00:44:29.100 Um, but, uh, but yeah, I, I, it's, it's definitely think back to where things came from before

00:44:35.400 you just make a knee jerk reaction.

00:44:36.620 But, you know, we, uh, after, uh, uh, Vietnam, we had not been in sustained combat.

00:44:41.480 Right.

00:44:41.800 Uh, until September 11th, we had flash points at, uh, at Desert One, at Grenada, at Panama,

00:44:46.560 uh, at, uh, Mogadishu, um, Gulf War.

00:44:49.880 Uh, but that was it.

00:44:51.320 Those were flash points.

00:44:52.140 That was not sustained combat operations.

00:44:54.100 So what we did for training was we picked up what worked in the jungle in the sixties and seventies

00:44:58.000 in Vietnam and we plopped that, those tactics in an urban environment, plopped them into

00:45:02.040 a mountain environment.

00:45:03.380 We put those into the desert and that's what we did for years.

00:45:06.400 We did that.

00:45:07.440 Those same exact techniques that those guys use.

00:45:09.820 And it's, they still work great in the jungle when you're having to have an engagement with

00:45:12.880 somebody like from here to where the camera is right, right there.

00:45:15.800 And you can't even see them until you're right there.

00:45:17.520 And maybe that first time you see them, it's an AK opening up on you.

00:45:20.160 Well, okay.

00:45:20.920 And things are, and September 11th happened and there's some technology that's been developed

00:45:24.560 in the time from suppressors to, uh, to our night vision, obviously our thermals.

00:45:28.420 Um, and so you adapt, you have to adapt and move on.

00:45:31.240 So instead of just saying, well, that's how we always did it.

00:45:32.960 So it's, it is important to question.

00:45:34.600 It is important to, uh, when someone says, or you say, or you find yourself saying, that's

00:45:37.860 why we always do it to take a breath and think, okay, well, why did we do it that way?

00:45:41.240 Right.

00:45:41.460 You know why?

00:45:42.020 Cause we were in the jungle and the engagement was right over there by that, uh, by that

00:45:45.840 camera.

00:45:46.500 Uh, and now where are we?

00:45:47.920 Okay.

00:45:48.360 What's, what's happened over the last 30, 40 years.

00:45:50.360 Oh, okay.

00:45:51.120 And then think it through.

00:45:52.520 Sure.

00:45:52.860 Yeah.

00:45:53.060 Well, one thing I'm all, I've always admired about the teams from my perspective, looking

00:45:56.880 out, looking in from the outside is speed of implementation as well.

00:46:01.180 Right.

00:46:01.500 Like there's not a whole lot of time to like be wondering and kind of thinking and experience.

00:46:05.780 I mean, there's experimenting, but then there's, you've got to do it quickly, right?

00:46:09.320 You've got to adapt and evolve very, very quickly.

00:46:11.760 Enemy's adapting.

00:46:12.660 Absolutely.

00:46:13.000 And they're doing it faster than we are typically because they aren't hindered by the bureaucracies

00:46:16.420 that we have to deal with.

00:46:18.340 But you're right.

00:46:18.660 In the SEAL teams, what I noticed is that, uh, yeah, maybe a little faster than say big army,

00:46:22.780 um, or that's anything like that, but we're still, it's still a bureaucracy, right?

00:46:27.380 You still got to, uh, you still, you know, can pivot tactically, uh, fairly quickly.

00:46:31.380 And then we see that operationally takes a lot longer.

00:46:34.120 Strategically, it takes a long time to pivot and, uh, to the detriment of the guys tactically

00:46:39.280 figuring it out on the ground.

00:46:40.660 No doubt.

00:46:41.220 So it's, uh, when I was in Iraq, we had some strange rules of engagement, standard operating

00:46:45.640 procedures.

00:46:47.040 That's, it was at times, frankly, it was disheartening because people were being injured, getting

00:46:51.940 killed because of the standard operating procedures that were in place and that were hindering

00:46:56.480 our ability to do our job and ultimately complete the mission.

00:46:59.900 Yeah.

00:47:00.260 That bureaucracy is, is rough.

00:47:01.840 Oh yeah.

00:47:02.200 That's, uh, that's something I do not miss about the military.

00:47:04.040 Well, you still deal with it when you have to submit your books into the DOD and everything

00:47:07.820 else.

00:47:08.260 I know that's been a nightmare for you.

00:47:09.380 That is a pain.

00:47:10.000 How was it with, uh, Savage Son?

00:47:11.440 We're still waiting.

00:47:12.300 Oh, so it's, so you have the release date, but you don't even have the, the book, the

00:47:15.360 finalized book yet.

00:47:16.200 Yep.

00:47:16.680 And I think this will be the last time that I submit because the amount of bandwidth that

00:47:20.360 I waste thinking about when this thing's going to be done, what are they going to take

00:47:24.080 out?

00:47:24.480 Why isn't it done yet?

00:47:25.460 What agency has it?

00:47:26.440 Which they don't tell you.

00:47:27.260 Right.

00:47:27.480 They just send it out.

00:47:28.420 Right.

00:47:28.800 Agencies you're not even working with.

00:47:29.920 They've never worked with ever.

00:47:31.060 Yeah.

00:47:31.200 Uh, they send it out, if you have like NSA in your book and a fictional novel, they send

00:47:34.060 it to the NSA to look at, why are they doing that?

00:47:36.080 Right.

00:47:36.360 Like, it's not that you have a secret or anything.

00:47:37.640 That is an overreach.

00:47:38.820 It's ridiculous.

00:47:39.720 It's a secret information.

00:47:40.220 But, uh, yeah, interestingly enough, I appealed the last one and won third.

00:47:44.300 So true believer.

00:47:45.260 And when that paperback comes out, uh, in February, February 25th, uh, the redactions that I won

00:47:50.360 on appeal, which were 37 out of the 54 will be in there.

00:47:54.640 So how does that process work then?

00:47:56.380 So you, you appeal it, it gets sent back through the review process with.

00:48:01.200 With another reviewer that's like, okay.

00:48:02.840 Probably goes up a notch.

00:48:03.800 Okay.

00:48:04.160 Probably goes to the supervisor.

00:48:05.260 Right.

00:48:05.600 Uh, and then they have a, I'll lose documentation from my attorneys that says, well, here's

00:48:10.100 where this is available in publicly available government documents, not just Wikipedia,

00:48:14.840 not somebody else who got out and talked about it, but here's your, the very government

00:48:18.720 that's doing this review.

00:48:19.820 Here's where it is in a publicly available government document.

00:48:22.200 Right.

00:48:22.500 Here's the website.

00:48:23.280 Here's the thing.

00:48:23.940 Like all that.

00:48:24.900 Yes.

00:48:25.100 And, uh, so I won a lot of them, but even some of those where we showed them, here it is.

00:48:28.600 They're like, no.

00:48:29.300 Exactly.

00:48:29.940 Yeah.

00:48:30.720 Crazy.

00:48:31.420 That's pretty wild.

00:48:32.140 Yeah.

00:48:32.520 It's ridiculous.

00:48:33.480 It's 100% ridiculous and it's an overreach.

00:48:35.860 Uh, so you're not required to submit.

00:48:37.920 So I'm going to not submit going forward.

00:48:41.120 Is it, is that just, is that, what is that like just a professional courtesy that you do

00:48:45.440 submit it?

00:48:46.040 Is that like, what's the risk of not submitting it?

00:48:48.440 I guess that you, everything is written so broadly, like a lot of our laws today to give

00:48:53.620 the government, um, the leeway to go after who they want to.

00:48:58.400 Lawsuits?

00:48:58.900 Is that what it would be?

00:48:59.680 So they could come after you.

00:49:00.080 I guess they could come after you for like what we've seen in the past for nonfiction,

00:49:03.080 nothing for fiction.

00:49:03.840 Right.

00:49:04.140 But for nonfiction, uh, would be come after the profits of that book.

00:49:07.920 Yeah.

00:49:08.260 Uh, and I guess they, I mean, they could jail people, I guess, if they're giving away something

00:49:11.300 secret, but I don't even know anything secret.

00:49:13.600 Like people think that seals, cause you're a seal, you know, the secret stuff, you know,

00:49:16.640 you know, you're kicking the door in the middle of the night, you grab somebody out of the

00:49:19.920 bed.

00:49:20.540 If he picks up a rifle, whatever you shoot him like, and then if he's alive, you bring

00:49:24.120 him back, you interrogate him, get some more intel, put it into a target package, keep

00:49:27.200 building out that, uh, you know, just like you would, if you were a cop in any city in

00:49:31.080 America, if you were a SWAT or whatever else, you're going to go serve a warrant in most

00:49:34.740 every city in America tonight.

00:49:36.260 Uh, same thing.

00:49:37.340 It's just that city happens to be Baghdad, happens to be Kabul, happens to be Missoul, whatever

00:49:41.760 it is.

00:49:42.320 Sure.

00:49:42.460 There's nothing secret about that.

00:49:44.400 Like, there's nothing secret.

00:49:46.140 Kick it in your door, whatever.

00:49:47.040 You've got some specialized training.

00:49:48.800 You'd have to move pretty high up the chain of command to get to the secretive type stuff,

00:49:53.100 I imagine.

00:49:53.580 And interestingly enough, once you get up there, then you retire and then you can go on cable

00:49:57.660 news channels the next day and talk about what you were just doing without any sort of

00:50:01.680 review.

00:50:02.100 Right.

00:50:02.560 So, yeah, it's, it's, it's craziness.

00:50:04.880 It is a, it is a strange thing.

00:50:06.140 It doesn't make any sense, but that's the government.

00:50:08.260 Not making sense?

00:50:09.480 Yeah.

00:50:09.720 Yeah.

00:50:10.340 That sounds about right.

00:50:11.180 So, yeah, so the next time I'm not going to, uh, cause you just could, you can't do,

00:50:15.060 and if I do a non, if I ever did a nonfiction book, you definitely do it.

00:50:17.940 Yeah.

00:50:18.260 Yeah.

00:50:18.540 100%.

00:50:18.860 Because you're speaking in absolutes.

00:50:20.160 You're speaking, you're, you're, you're, even if you're alluding to it, you're saying

00:50:23.000 this is fact, this is the deal.

00:50:24.820 Yeah.

00:50:25.200 Fictional is, obviously you're, you're, it's a story.

00:50:28.500 Obviously.

00:50:28.860 It's all made up.

00:50:29.940 Yeah.

00:50:30.420 It's all made up.

00:50:31.060 Right.

00:50:31.480 But I also think the thing that resonates with your stories is that, although that, yes,

00:50:34.920 they are made up, uh, they're, they're well researched.

00:50:38.420 You, you've obviously lived it cause you wouldn't be able to write about it to the degree that

00:50:42.380 you do if you hadn't.

00:50:43.440 Uh, another author I think is really good at this is Dan Brown.

00:50:46.240 Yeah.

00:50:46.620 Where, although he may not have lived certain situations, the amount of, of research and,

00:50:52.240 and thought and everything that goes into it.

00:50:53.980 I'm like, Holy cow.

00:50:54.940 Like, how does he know all this stuff?

00:50:56.220 Yes.

00:50:57.120 It's incredible.

00:50:57.980 He's amazing.

00:50:59.140 Yeah.

00:50:59.760 Unbelievable.

00:51:00.280 He's amazing.

00:51:00.960 So, uh, yeah, in the future, I'm going to, uh, going to just publish, but, uh, this,

00:51:05.260 this will be the last one that I, that I submit.

00:51:07.220 Makes sense to me.

00:51:07.920 On the fiction side.

00:51:08.200 Yeah.

00:51:08.460 Yeah.

00:51:08.600 Me too.

00:51:09.660 Well, Hey, I know you've got another, I think you have another meeting here.

00:51:12.140 Yeah.

00:51:12.340 I think we're going to have a dog attack me or something like that.

00:51:15.040 I've noticed that.

00:51:15.780 Yeah.

00:51:15.900 You've got a pup behind you.

00:51:16.980 You're safe there, but there's some other dogs here.

00:51:18.560 I would not want to get in a tangle with for sure.

00:51:20.320 There's some mean looking dogs right here.

00:51:22.440 Yeah.

00:51:22.940 One of my least favorite things to do in the teams was get attacked by a dog.

00:51:25.500 So we'll see how this goes.

00:51:26.600 I actually want to, I want to do that at some of our events.

00:51:28.980 I want to get a trainer or a handler out there and, and put the suits on.

00:51:32.900 It's awesome.

00:51:33.280 I would love that experience.

00:51:34.740 It's cool.

00:51:35.320 Yeah.

00:51:35.500 Can you feel the pressure and the bite through the suit?

00:51:38.380 Yeah.

00:51:38.580 You can feel the pressure, but it's not bad.

00:51:39.960 It's not hurting you, but you can feel what's going on.

00:51:41.800 For me, I don't even do it.

00:51:42.780 I was not a dog handler, but I only did it a couple of times, but, uh, I was always worried

00:51:47.180 they're just going to get me somewhere else.

00:51:48.440 Oh yeah.

00:51:48.940 That's exposed.

00:51:49.760 Yeah.

00:51:50.600 So that was always a worry.

00:51:52.020 Significantly more, uh, more important.

00:51:53.360 Yeah.

00:51:53.620 And when you see some of these dogs are, I mean, they're amazing what they can do.

00:51:56.260 Oh yeah.

00:51:56.800 Just incredible.

00:51:57.400 And I worked a lot of the dog stuff into book three, into Savage Son.

00:51:59.940 Oh really?

00:52:00.520 Yeah.

00:52:00.820 It's called my buddy John Devine.

00:52:01.920 Yeah.

00:52:02.160 I haven't read it yet.

00:52:02.920 So it's, uh, it's, I always, I wanted to put the dogs in there and, uh, create some characters

00:52:07.560 that had different backgrounds that I didn't have, that the protagonist didn't have that

00:52:10.200 were a little different.

00:52:10.880 So, uh, there may or may not be a character that looks like, uh, Andrew Arbito with some knives

00:52:14.720 in there.

00:52:15.180 There might, may or may not be a character that resembles John Devine in there working with

00:52:19.760 some good dog action and, uh, Savage Son.

00:52:21.660 When are we, uh, when are we going to have a movie or are we?

00:52:24.760 Ah, yes.

00:52:25.360 I mean, I got to throw that in there.

00:52:26.580 Yeah, you do.

00:52:27.140 So I'm, uh, I'm still sworn to secrecy, but I will say that, uh, that things are looking

00:52:31.040 pretty darn good.

00:52:32.100 Are they really good?

00:52:32.900 I'm excited about that.

00:52:34.020 I'm excited for you, man.

00:52:34.960 I really appreciate our friendship and everything that you're doing to see your growth.

00:52:38.340 I believe is much deserved.

00:52:40.600 Now it's pretty cool to see like the line that we saw yesterday of, of, of people who are

00:52:44.020 inspired and motivated by you.

00:52:45.360 It's, it's, it's pretty cool.

00:52:46.880 It's powerful.

00:52:47.540 Thank you so much.

00:52:48.260 And I appreciate all the support.

00:52:49.140 And I love what you're doing out there.

00:52:50.440 I'm always supporting you.

00:52:51.320 Stay strong.

00:52:52.020 Anything I can do.

00:52:52.700 Appreciate that.

00:52:53.140 Let me ask you one question as we close things out so you can get on to the rest of your day.

00:52:56.700 What does it mean to be a man?

00:52:58.140 Well, it's, uh, it's a lot of what we talked about earlier.

00:53:00.780 It's, uh, being prepared to take care of your family, uh, being ready and having those skills

00:53:05.520 necessary to do so, to be able to, uh, one, take care of them, put food on the table

00:53:09.380 and then defend them if need be.

00:53:11.840 So that's, uh, that's the base.

00:53:13.460 That's the foundation right there.

00:53:15.060 And if you can do that with, uh, with a bit of a smile on your face and, uh, and pass

00:53:18.520 on a good legacy and be a good example of the kids, then that's, uh, that's the part

00:53:22.260 that rounds things out.

00:53:23.660 Well, I think you're somebody who's living it.

00:53:25.080 So I appreciate that of you.

00:53:26.700 Uh, where do we go to connect with you?

00:53:28.360 Social media.

00:53:29.020 Obviously we can get the book.

00:53:29.900 Well, I think we're going to be releasing this podcast the week or two before the book

00:53:33.800 comes out.

00:53:34.360 So pre-order right now.

00:53:35.680 Awesome.

00:53:36.040 Um, but let us know where to connect with you.

00:53:37.600 Perfect.

00:53:37.820 Yeah.

00:53:37.960 Booking, you can get book anywhere.

00:53:39.160 It can be ebook, audio book, uh, anything, any way you like to, like to read.

00:53:43.080 Now you have somebody else read the audio book, right?

00:53:44.620 It's not you.

00:53:45.080 Yep.

00:53:45.280 Ray Porter.

00:53:45.860 Okay.

00:53:46.140 And I had no idea that these, uh, narrators bring a whole fan base along with them.

00:53:49.540 Oh, they do?

00:53:50.180 I had no idea.

00:53:50.440 Cause I just read.

00:53:51.160 Yeah.

00:53:51.300 I wouldn't have thought that.

00:53:51.780 People are like, what's he reading next?

00:53:52.900 So it's a whole nother thing.

00:53:54.060 Yeah.

00:53:54.200 I didn't know that.

00:53:54.600 I would not have thought that.

00:53:55.500 And, uh, luckily I chose wisely and Ray is an amazing guy.

00:53:58.240 I was up for audio book of the year last year.

00:53:59.700 I was up there with Stephen King.

00:54:00.900 Really?

00:54:01.220 Yeah.

00:54:01.600 Ruth Ware.

00:54:02.260 It was, it was incredible.

00:54:03.080 Interesting.

00:54:03.540 So, uh, so that was really cool.

00:54:04.760 Yeah.

00:54:05.100 Amazing.

00:54:05.600 So, uh, yeah.

00:54:06.720 Uh, Ray Porter, amazing guy.

00:54:08.840 Um, and, uh, yeah.

00:54:11.380 Officialjackcar.com website for a little more, uh, deep dive into some of the weapons and that

00:54:15.060 sort of thing used in the novels.

00:54:16.180 And to follow along, uh, you can jump on at JackcarUSA on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

00:54:21.960 But, uh, Instagram's where I'm most, right.

00:54:23.780 Most active.

00:54:24.920 Yeah.

00:54:25.040 It always seems like you have some cool extras on the site based on just some additional

00:54:29.700 information that a reader who's excited about it might want.

00:54:32.440 So I would highly encourage you to go check that out.

00:54:34.360 Awesome.

00:54:34.760 Thank you so much, brother.

00:54:35.440 Appreciate it.

00:54:36.020 Thank you very much, man.

00:54:36.700 Thank you.

00:54:37.020 Take care.

00:54:38.900 Gentlemen, there you go.

00:54:39.700 The one and only Jack Carr.

00:54:40.700 I hope you enjoyed that podcast.

00:54:42.640 I know that maybe it was a little, uh, hard to listen to because we had the background noise,

00:54:45.940 but what a candid conversation Jack and I were able to have.

00:54:48.960 And I always take advantage of those opportunities to sit down face to face with somebody and,

00:54:52.780 and discuss.

00:54:54.040 Seems like they always go better when they're face to face, uh, compared to the technology.

00:54:58.000 The technology is wonderful.

00:54:59.000 We wouldn't be able to do without it, but those face-to-face meetings are very, very powerful.

00:55:03.100 So, uh, guys, make sure you check out his new book, Savage Son.

00:55:06.420 I've, I've read it.

00:55:07.540 Fortunately, I got an advanced copy, uh, which is, is, is nice.

00:55:11.080 It's one of the perks I will say.

00:55:12.760 Uh, and I can tell you it's a bad-ass book.

00:55:14.860 So if you haven't read the others, read the others, read this one, you will really, really

00:55:18.320 enjoy it.

00:55:18.980 Connect with Jack.

00:55:19.760 Uh, he's got a bunch of added features and benefits and bonuses on his website, which

00:55:23.860 I believe is officialjackcar.com.

00:55:26.020 You can check that out and, uh, see some of the tools and some of the, uh, things that

00:55:31.540 he had mentioned in Savage Son on the website itself.

00:55:34.740 So make sure you do that.

00:55:35.820 Also, as I said earlier, we need more men in this fight, especially now, as we continue

00:55:41.820 to see an encroachment on our freedoms and liberties, it's very, very important that we

00:55:45.180 as strong and capable men step up the way that we know how to, and we enlist the men

00:55:49.100 around us who are standing shoulder to shoulder with us and doing the same thing.

00:55:52.620 So share this podcast, leave a rating and review, believe it or not, that goes a very long

00:55:56.940 way.

00:55:57.180 And it's simple.

00:55:57.860 It's easy.

00:55:58.440 It's a non-threatening way for you to share.

00:56:00.400 Just leave a rating and review.

00:56:01.500 Uh, if you feel so inclined, just hit the little share button, wherever you're listening,

00:56:05.060 whether it's YouTube or on the podcast player and, uh, text this to, to a buddy who may

00:56:09.480 want to hear it because again, we need more men in this battle.

00:56:11.960 All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow with my ask me anything with Kip Sorensen and then

00:56:15.780 Friday for our Friday field notes.

00:56:17.140 But until then go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

00:56:21.480 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:56:24.120 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:56:28.420 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:56:31.500 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - April 14, 2020

Savage Son ｜ JACK CARR

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