On this episode of the podcast, the brother and sister duo of the sit down with their good friend, Kip, and talk about how to deal with the ups and downs that life throws your way, and how to overcome them.
00:05:17.100You can jump on Instagram, and we can discuss and debate.
00:05:20.000And we had some really good discussion about it.
00:05:21.620But it's amazing how quickly people will react versus respond when you use a word that they don't like.
00:05:33.820And they won't even dive into the context of what we're talking about.
00:05:37.980What was fascinating to me is that most of the comments that dissented from what I said, and that's fine.
00:05:42.740We all have agreements and disagreements, weren't actually really dissenting all that far away from what I was talking about with the context.
00:05:50.860It was that they took issue with my use of the word vulnerability.
00:05:55.420And the reason I bring this up is that it leads to a greater discussion in society where I think we've really, really lost the ability to have deep and meaningful conversations.
00:06:05.940Because one party, whether it's me or another, gets so hung up on one word without really considering, how is it that this person means that?
00:06:15.920Or how do they define the word vulnerability?
00:06:19.780And rather than jumping to their emotional reaction, really just stopping and pausing and asking themselves, well, let me try to understand what this person means.
00:06:32.420I'm not free from falling into the same trap.
00:06:35.520But I think if all of us, especially as men, because we do dictate a lot of the conversations that take place in our circles, if we can learn to be a little bit more discerning and we can learn to not be so heavily vested in a specific word or concept.
00:06:54.000And instead really strive to understand what people are talking about before we interject our own two cents, I think we'll have much healthier discussions and I think we'll come to much better understandings of each other.
00:07:06.900We may not ultimately agree, but at least we can maybe see things in a way that we haven't seen before.
00:07:14.060And I always say this because I think it's important.
00:07:17.240I'm not just pointing fingers at the people who disagreed with me.
00:07:21.160I'm looking at myself in the mirror and asking myself, where have I looked at conversations that people have had or word choices that they've used that have offended me?
00:07:33.700And if I chose not to be offended in those moments, what could have I learned had I opened myself up to the possibility that maybe there's something I can learn here?
00:07:44.380So, yeah, not a specific headline, but I saw a bunch of things come up, which is why I made that post in the first place, and it was very interesting.
00:07:53.760Yeah, I love – it's – well, just to add to what you said, I mean I can't help but think like we don't even look at why we're mad about it.
00:08:06.600Level one is, oh, understanding your perception and your perspective versus mine and being curious to seek to understand, right, before being understood.
00:08:19.720And then the other part is, why is this making me mad?
00:08:53.500And is that – and should you or should you not?
00:08:55.980And should you pivot and even being empathetic and understanding yourself let alone other people is – it's really interesting how we do things like that as humans.
00:09:14.940Maybe it's having my own battles that I've wrestled with specifically over the past several years where I've really had to do a lot of self-reflection on the way that I was showing up.
00:09:28.680Not only for my family but for everybody, you and people listening to this podcast and the way I'd show up on social media.
00:09:37.860You know, I'm embarrassed about the way that I showed up for my family.
00:09:41.280I'm embarrassed about the way that I even showed up here with you at times or the way that I showed up for people on social media.
00:09:48.120And I noticed myself getting triggered a lot and, you know, resorting to insulting and demeaning and demoralizing responses that had nothing to do with the actual discussion at hand.
00:10:00.060And I've really tried to become more aware of that.
00:10:08.620But what I've – what's worked for me is when I notice my blood boiling and the temperature is getting a little hotter is just not responding at all, you know, not reacting, maybe even asking a question as opposed to making an assertion or an assumption.
00:10:27.860Assumptions have got me into a lot of trouble.
00:10:29.520So really working on being conscious of how I respond to people in a way that fosters discussion and dialogue, not tampers it and cuts it off at the knees.
00:10:41.720Yeah, so I mean in the spirit of this past week being Independence Day, I was talking with the kids a little bit about our founding fathers and who they were.
00:10:53.420And I didn't realize how young they were.
00:12:32.480You know, and I think as I reflect, I'm thinking, man, I need to be about something way more than I even am now.
00:12:40.180And we shouldn't be waiting to get older to be showing up powerfully because here's a great example of seven men that were showing up in a very serious way and fighting a serious battle.
00:17:21.680Like, you just set your alarm and you make a decision and then when in the morning, and you know it's going to be hard in the morning.
00:17:28.120But you just make a decision and you get up and you get to get out of your climate-controlled bed, your bed that might even adjust to your, like, height and your sleep temperature.
00:17:42.920You didn't have to, like, go shear a sheep.
00:17:45.100You put your clothes on that some poor kid in China made for you.
00:17:49.600Okay, and then you put your shoes on and then you walk out to your truck in a climate-controlled vehicle and it drives you from your house three to five to ten miles away to the gym in a matter of minutes.
00:18:06.260And then you go into this climate-controlled building.
00:18:39.440We need to normalize that growth is on the backside of difficulty.
00:18:43.640Like, you know, we were talking about this or I was talking about it with someone is, in my mind, I was like, how do I have some leadership guides around having difficult conversations?
00:18:55.280And my mindset was, how do I make it easy to do?
00:19:00.600And I came to the conclusion a couple weeks ago of, actually, it's never going to be easy.
00:19:25.480And ironically enough, we all know that on the backside of difficulty is always growth, but yet we want to grow, but not at the expense of having to do anything courageous or difficult.
00:21:42.860But it is what it is and I've learned from those things and I'm trying to rebuild relationships specifically with my kids that I drove the wedge in between.
00:21:53.620You know, I've talked with a lot of guys and women who their husbands or the guys themselves are addicted to pornography and it drives a wedge.
00:22:32.380You really don't know what intimate physical connection actually is or what it can mean.
00:22:37.200You're just there solely for the purpose of getting off.
00:22:39.980Maybe you're comparing her to the big boob porn star you watched last night and now you have this woman who, you know, maybe she's got some scars or she's got some stretch marks from your children and you're comparing to this, you know, manicured blow-up, human blow-up doll essentially.
00:22:59.060And of course, like there's – of course there's going to be a comparison there.
00:23:02.960So think about what vices you have and what you can do to get rid of those things.
00:23:08.120But I'd also say for me the biggest thing is just making sure that there's structured time for communication.
00:23:15.620You said something as just kind of a throwaway a minute ago.
00:23:18.700You said, I was talking with my kids about the founding fathers.
00:23:22.400That's a kind of – that was kind of a throwaway line for you but it was really, really insightful because if you listen, what it means is that you deliberately carved out time to talk about something that doesn't just happen organically but that something is meaningful and significant with your children.
00:23:44.760And when you do that with your wife, whether that's, hey, every Monday we're going to talk about finances and every Sunday we're going to maybe do something at home where we talk about God and the scriptures or every day when I get home from work and she gets home or she's at home, we're going to talk about each other's day.
00:24:05.360Every morning we're going to – every morning we're going to do a little five-minute powwow and try to make sure we're all on the same page for the same day.
00:24:11.260When I was doing those things, relationships, solid.
00:24:15.860The minute you stop talking, assumptions come into play, guesswork, distraction, temptation, all the things that will divide you and separate you from your spouse rather than draw you closer together.
00:24:32.500You know, the three things, when I think about just my marriage and the things, I'll be honest, that are areas that I struggle with that I know if they were habits, we'd be better off.
00:24:51.140Yeah, some of these are like still difficult for me.
00:24:53.780And the top one on my list is fully expressed.
00:24:58.340If I have an upset, I got to talk about it.
00:25:04.340And I want to clarify, it's not a, hey, I need you to change something.
00:25:12.520It might be a request, but it also might just be telling her like, hey, when this happened, it really made me upset or whatever.
00:25:19.480Like we literally had something two weeks ago, something came up and out of respect to my wife, I'm not going to share it, but it really bothered me, like really bothered me.
00:25:30.520I'm like, I got to say something because otherwise it's just going to show up how I, how in my behavior, I'm going to wear it on my shoulders.
00:25:38.780I'm going to withdraw, I'm going to stonewall, other things.
00:25:42.400And, and so while we're driving, I'm like, hey, really want to have a conversation with you about something somewhat difficult.
00:25:48.320And I would just want to share how I feel.
00:25:50.240I don't even know what to do with it or if I even have a request out of it, but I want you to know that this bothered me, right?
00:26:00.020And just, I just want to put it out there and I don't, I don't have anything to know action items to be frank, but I just want to tell you I expressed that she's like, oh, provided a little bit of clarity.
00:28:53.300You're not there saying that you're inferior or this is an issue for you.
00:28:56.980Like you fully acknowledge that, hey, this is something that is important to me, something that was a concern of mine.
00:29:04.260Again, I don't know what it is, but you didn't – the way you approached it made it a masculine approach.
00:29:10.840And I think that's one of the issues that I take is that on one end of the extreme, when I say don't be vulnerable, some person might think I'm saying be emotionally closed off.
00:29:22.420And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, somebody might say, well, that means I just need to blabber and cry and bitch and moan and dump everything on my wife's lap.
00:29:34.240If you went to her with tears in your eyes, I was offended and hurt and frustrated you'd treat me like that, of course she's going to look less favorably at you.
00:29:45.060But you said, hey, babe, like I need to talk with you.
00:29:59.180And then the other thing you said, and this is really important and something I'm learning with the relationship I have with my girlfriend, is you said celebrate the differences.
00:30:07.680But I wanted to kind of deviate just a little bit from that.
00:30:11.140One thing I'm learning, because I've seen this in previous relationships that I've had, is that I pick and choose the things that I like.
00:30:18.500Like, and so, I might really like her passion, but when it's directed at me, I don't like it so much.
00:30:29.960So, I might be upset or offended or chastise her for directing that at me, but then in the same sentence, I'm like, but keep being passionate about everything else.
00:30:39.400I don't think we get to decide, because what makes her, in this case, my girlfriend so amazing, is also the things that at times can be very challenging.
00:32:38.620And what I've seen a lot of times when guys come into the Iron Council, for example, that's our exclusive brotherhood, is they come in and they want to fix everything about themselves.
00:32:49.000And you and I over the weekend, you've got this beautiful property on the lake and you've got this beautiful home that you built.
00:32:54.720And right next to it, you've got this garage that was clearly there before.
00:34:15.200Or maybe you're in a relationship and you love this woman and it's pretty good, but like 30% of the time you guys hate each other.
00:34:26.420And there's arguing and there's bickering and there's nastiness between you.
00:34:30.060Okay, well, then you need to work on your ability to communicate more effectively so you guys can have civil discourse and get through these issues.
00:34:37.580Or maybe you pull up your bank account and you're afraid to pull up your bank account because you know it's in the negative or you know you're afraid to open your mailbox because you know you're going to be met with 17 bills.
00:34:48.780Okay, then you need to focus on how do I learn basic budgeting, paying off debt, restructuring tax strategies, investing, getting a promotion, getting a raise, etc., etc., etc.
00:35:00.740So the first step to quote unquote rebuilding yourself is to really be honest about where you're deficient.
00:35:10.060And once you are really honest about that, then you can start to focus on what needs to happen first.
00:35:15.380The beauty of this is every example I just gave you will relate to the others.
00:35:20.580I guarantee you, if you're 60 pounds overweight, because that's the example I used, and you start going to the gym every day and you dial in that nutrition, I guarantee your relationship is going to get better.
00:35:32.360I guarantee your finances are going to get better.
00:35:35.140I guarantee you're going to have a better emotional and spiritual connection with God.
00:35:40.320If you start to get that spiritual side better, and you start formulating a connection with God and realizing that you have a purpose on this earth, I guarantee you're going to start leading your family better.
00:35:52.840I guarantee you're going to look at finances and say, hey, I need to be prudent over this because God has given it to me, and it's my responsibility to do what's right with it.
00:36:01.240Or that he's blessed me with this incredible body, and so I need to treat my body correctly because it's a gift from God.
00:36:06.840So wherever you plug into this equation, it's going to get better.
00:36:12.500But the first step is always to be honest and truthful about what your deficiencies are and then focus on those things.
00:36:20.900I had this conversation with, I think it was with Asia, actually, last week, where most transformation for people, kind of like that moment of shift,
00:36:33.420shift is moving from or moving into ownership of their life.
00:36:42.380It's always kind of like anyone that you've ever talked to, like read a book, Goggins, your story, my story.
00:36:50.620Most people, the shift was that they were living a life, waiting and hoping for someone else to save them.
00:37:00.300They had excuses for how their life was.
00:37:04.000They were allocating blame to someone else, and they weren't dealing in reality.
00:37:09.620And the moment of switch was, and this is the key, was this is my creation.
00:38:42.140You know the concept, ignorance is bliss?
00:38:45.180It's bliss because you haven't—because you don't know.
00:38:48.980But the reason you're miserable is because you do know, and you're hiding it and not doing anything about it.
00:38:55.440You're not miserable because it's not a problem.
00:38:57.700You're miserable because you recognize and acknowledge it as a problem, and you're not doing anything about it.
00:39:04.820Yeah, and because you're unwilling to do something about it, you allocate blame so that way you can live with yourself and justify your existence.
00:40:20.580We as human beings are not meant to operate alone.
00:40:23.220We've operated in tribes and packs and gangs and groups and cultures throughout all of our history of human evolution.
00:40:30.840So if that's hardwired into us, just because we're in an era where I don't really need you, Kip, to survive, we're still hardwired to behave that way.
00:40:43.240And we still do need other people in a circle of ours in different aspects of life.
00:40:48.660So when you're incompetent, you're risking—your brain at least believes that you're going to die.
00:40:56.060Because a thousand years ago, you might have.
00:41:01.300If you go on a hunt and you keep fucking things up for everybody, and that's how the tribe eats, but you keep scaring the deer away, and you can't kill it when it comes to you, bro, you're out.
00:41:12.820Because we're not going to feed you anymore.
00:41:16.440You're just consuming, and you're not producing anything for the tribe.
00:41:24.040If you're incompetent at work, people are going to know.
00:41:26.980If you're incompetent at home, people are going to know.
00:41:28.920And you don't want that to happen, so you create stories and lies and rationalizations and justifications, and you market all of that, not only to yourself, but to other people, to convince them that you're still a valuable member of the tribe.
00:41:45.540When you might know deep down inside, you're probably not as valuable as you think you could be.
00:42:06.180And then just think of all the scenarios by which that shows up.
00:42:10.540Like as a husband, as a student, a kid that doesn't understand something, a subject in a classroom, and you don't raise your hand because you don't want to look like you don't know the answer when you think you should.
00:42:23.960Or, man, like, or going along with social pressure, political viewpoints, and, well, I better wear a mask if everyone else is, right?
00:42:33.280Like, that is so, like, it was once told to me that human condition is focus 100% of the time of the avoidance of looking bad and making sure you look good.
00:42:47.860It, well, you wake up in the morning, you drive what you drive, you dress like you dress, you say what you say, all in the spirit of looking good or the avoidance of looking bad.
00:43:00.120And I love the context so you can, quote, unquote, survive within the tribes and the communities that you belong to.
00:43:06.680And that's literally what it comes down to.
00:43:09.740You know what's interesting about this, though, is, and I agree with that, you know, looking good, not looking bad, again, to go back to the tribes of ancient civilizations.
00:43:19.520But the risk of you being ostracized 1,000 years ago or 2,000 years ago or 10,000 years ago was significant.
00:43:29.160Right, like, if I was in this really small, rural, remote area in the desert of southern Utah, no dwellings, no electricity, no power, scarce resources, fighting over each other and other warring tribes like Native American Indians used to do, like, if I get kicked out of the tribe, I'm dead.
00:43:52.120Like, you have to survive now, not like, well, they'll give me some grace for six months, right?
00:44:05.720But in modern times, there's a tribe for everything.
00:44:11.500That's actually a really nice thing because now you can be a freak, the weirdest freak, the weirdos, like, the weirdest person you could ever be, and there's somebody just like you.
00:44:23.120So just keep sharing what's on your mind.
00:44:30.320As long as it doesn't impact other people, live your life.
00:44:33.920There is a tribe built around some of the weirdest, most obscure things you could possibly think of, and that might be something you're into.
00:44:40.820There's other people that are into that as well.
00:44:42.380So that empowers me because now I've given myself permission to say things that I want to say, that I believe, that maybe before I thought, well, if I say this, people aren't going to like it.
00:44:54.560You're damn right people aren't going to like it.
00:44:56.360But there are going to be people who do, and those are your people.
00:46:17.480But I think probably 99% of what we consider a personality disorder is nothing more than your behavior conditioned and programmed on your life.
00:46:30.240Like narcissist is one you hear all the time.
00:46:47.840You have an avoidant personality disorder because your dad beat you or you watched your mom and dad fight throughout your childhood, verbal, emotional, physical abuse,
00:46:58.580and now you're concerned about getting married, so you have a disorder?
00:47:01.800No, it's just part of the human condition.
00:47:05.820So I think there are things that are a real problem that are clinically diagnosed, and I think you need to be really careful of labeling yourself.
00:47:15.980This isn't a disorder, but here's what I hear all the time.
00:47:18.480Well, I'm never going to get that promotion or – oh, here's one.
00:47:22.140I'm never going to meet a woman because I'm introverted.
00:47:24.160No, you're never going to meet a woman because you're telling yourself you're introverted and giving yourself permission not to go talk with women.
00:47:32.460It has nothing to do with whether or not you feel comfortable doing it.
00:47:36.380No man feels comfortable approaching an attractive woman.
00:48:04.940You know, if instead of saying, well, I'm introverted, say, hey, I'm uncomfortable talking with people, but I do it anyways because I realize the importance of finding good people in my corner.
00:52:55.740As someone who is a military spouse, I've had to take on the role of a part-time stay-at-home dad.
00:53:02.560I'm thankful I get to be able to take care of my son, which is six months, and my daughter that is eight years, while my wife works extremely hard for this country.
00:53:11.100Even though I also work limited hours, I find myself wanting to do more for myself and my family by branching out of my comfort zone for hobbies and side hustles, but not at the expense of burning my family financially.
00:53:41.000Maybe you can help me clarify if you know.
00:53:43.000I don't understand how picking up some extra work by turning a hobby into a business, that's kind of what I'm gathering here, picking up something to turn it into a little money-generating stuff.
00:53:54.080Well, I mean, he said hobbies slash side hustles, so maybe he wants to take on hobbies and those would cost money, but they may not necessarily be a side hustle, or the side hustle doesn't work.
00:54:31.640You know, look, one of the quotes that comes to mind is, you can do anything, you just can't do everything.
00:54:44.620And that goes back to what you were saying about priorities.
00:54:47.300So, yeah, maybe you can't do all the things that you want to do right now, but man, if you can't start a jujitsu class, or maybe you really like nature.
00:54:55.760Like, actually, here's really something you could do.
00:54:57.480You have a six-month-old and an eight-year-old, is that right?
00:55:01.580Like, let's say you really like taking pictures.
00:55:05.980Okay, so go, like, save some money if you need to.
00:55:21.080And now you're going to take pictures.
00:55:22.280Or maybe you can take pictures of your kids because you want to start a photography business, and then you start marketing on a website, which is so easy to do these days.
00:55:30.840You can go to, like, Squarespace and build one for almost nothing, and it'll take you maybe an hour.
00:55:37.880And build a photography portfolio and say, hey, I'm doing some newborns right now.
00:55:43.720Or I'm doing back-to-school pictures because we're coming close to back-to-school now.
00:55:47.300Or I do landscape pictures or photography or whatever.
00:55:50.560Like, I think there's a lot of things you can do here if you can be creative and you can get your kids involved in the process.
00:55:55.780I know it's hard with a six-month-old, but an eight-year-old, you can start introducing him or her.
00:56:00.980I can't remember if it's a boy or a girl.
00:57:52.560But there's an itch that's not being fulfilled, and you're trying to find it.
00:57:58.280And I think the key thing for you to find whatever that is and whatever that looks like is in alignment with your spouse and you guys talking it through and figuring out what's going to give you fulfillment, purpose, and meaning in your life in addition to you being a father.
00:58:15.960I mean, I would say, generally speaking, that's going to be true of men who stay at home.
00:58:32.380We're not the we don't have those maternal instincts the same way mothers do.
00:58:36.720I think generally we don't find as much fulfillment in raising children as we do going out into the world and making money and bringing home the bacon, so to speak.
00:58:44.820I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong.
00:58:47.940If it works for your your situation, by all means.
00:58:51.760But I don't think what you're experiencing is abnormal for any guy who stays at home.
00:58:56.080But like I said, I think your wife is probably willing to discuss this with you and she wants you to be happy.
00:59:02.900And I also think there's some things that you can do very creatively that will allow you some fulfillment, but not detract from the household finances or from your role as a part time stay at home dad.
00:59:15.180You know, if it's talking about the gym, get your ass up before everybody else gets up.
00:59:19.780Well, but then I won't get as much sleep.
00:59:39.440Corey Castillo, as it pertains to man's responsibility in discerning absolute truth, what is a or the fundamental basis of truth he must recognize before building upon it and leading others to their discernment?
00:59:56.560He's asking, what is the origin of truth is what I'm gathering.
01:10:42.500And there's a lot of power in just letting that go and living into the present.
01:10:47.880And you won't and we won't if we don't learn to let it go somehow.
01:10:52.020And you'll drag it along and it comes with the baggage of what it means and the stories and all those other things when we're not putting the period at the end of that sentence, right?
01:11:05.140And letting it play into today and tomorrow.
01:12:26.300So the Iron Council enrollment is closed officially.
01:12:30.580But if you're interested to learn more, you can sign up for a newsletter and learn more about the IC.
01:12:36.060Nonetheless, that's orderofman.com slash Iron Council.
01:12:38.720But kind of your primary option for kind of banding with us is obviously to connect with Michler on the socials at Ryan Michler, but also look into the Battle Ready program.
01:12:49.860This is a self-paced approach to what we do within the Iron Council, and it's a great mechanism to prepare you for joining us in Q4.
01:13:00.660To learn more about the Battle Ready, go to orderofman.com slash battle ready.
01:13:05.300And, of course, you can find your Order of Man swag at the store at store.orderofman.com.