Order of Man

00:00:00.000 A nation that has no borders ceases to be a nation. And that's why it's critical that we

00:00:04.380 find realistic and effective solutions to secure this nation's borders. And while there are many

00:00:10.440 polarizing thoughts on the subject, it's also critical that we have discussions about this

00:00:14.980 pressing issue. That's why when I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days with

00:00:19.000 Jason Owens, chief patrol agent of the Holton sector, which is all of Maine and his team,

00:00:24.220 I jumped at the chance to learn more about what these men and women do and clear up misconceptions

00:00:28.680 about their role and responsibilities. Today, we talk about what those misconceptions are,

00:00:33.760 the threats that our nation faces, how best to go about securing the resources to protect against

00:00:39.660 those threats and the brave men and women who do the work of securing our nation's borders.

00:00:44.600 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:49.460 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily

00:00:55.440 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:02.760 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:08.120 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler and I am the host and the founder

00:01:13.260 of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you back or I want to welcome

00:01:17.480 you here for the first time. Man, we've got a ton going on. I've been out of town for the past

00:01:22.560 week or so on a hunt, which was successful. So you can hear more about that if you're following

00:01:27.860 along on social media. But outside of that, just a lot of great interviews, a lot of great

00:01:32.200 conversations going on. We've got our main event coming up next year, planning other events

00:01:36.480 and the mission and the movement to reclaim and restore masculinity continues to grow, which is good

00:01:42.340 because it seems to me that there is an increasing regularity of some of the most crazy

00:01:49.280 asinine thoughts and ideas about gender and masculinity and just society in general. And

00:01:55.600 that's why it's very, very important that we as men step up as the leaders in our home

00:01:59.760 and our businesses and communities. And my job is to give a voice to the idea that we need

00:02:06.620 to step up and reclaim this, this concept of masculinity that has stood the test of time

00:02:11.260 and enlist more of you in the battle as well. So we've got this podcast. This is an interview

00:02:17.720 show. We've also got the, uh, Wednesday, ask me anything episode. And then Friday, which

00:02:21.560 is me just sharing some of my thoughts and ideas. Uh, also make sure you're following

00:02:26.020 along on YouTube. We're doing a lot more video over there. Uh, we're nearing, I want

00:02:30.040 to say 80,000 subscribers. My goal is to get to a hundred thousand initially, of course, much

00:02:34.900 further and beyond that, but eight, a hundred thousand initially. And we're, uh, we're well

00:02:39.340 on our way. We just did a giveaway. In fact, and, uh, the winners have been announced

00:02:42.940 and received their stuff or their stuffs on the way. Anyways, uh, with that said, I don't

00:02:48.960 really have a whole lot of announcements today. Uh, origin is my sponsor. And of course, they're

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00:03:09.020 Uh, they've got their joint warfare. I, that I think is their best product. That's the one

00:03:14.060 that I use the most. And I used to not really totally believe in supplements. I thought a

00:03:19.040 lot of it was just the placebo effect type thing. Uh, but I'll tell you, I can feel a

00:03:22.920 difference when I'm not taking, uh, the discipline, which again, or excuse me, the joint warfare.

00:03:28.460 So make sure you check it out, head to origin, Maine, uh, as in the state main origin,

00:03:34.340 Maine.com and use the code order O R D E R at checkout. And you'll get a 10% discount on that

00:03:41.000 and their jeans and their boots and their supplemental lineup and their geese and their

00:03:44.280 rash guards and everything else they do. So check it out again, origin, Maine.com and use the code

00:03:48.900 order at checkout. That's it by way of announcements. Uh, I do want to get into the discussion and

00:03:53.980 introduce you to my guest today. I'm excited about this one. As I mentioned earlier, I had the

00:03:57.560 opportunity to sit down with the chief patrol agent of the Holton sector, which is essentially

00:04:01.980 all of Maine. Uh, his name is Jason Owens and he has 20 years of experience under his belt

00:04:06.440 and formerly served as the deputy chief patrol agent of the Laredo sector, uh, directing operations

00:04:12.540 along the U S Mexico border. He's completed both the border patrol tactical unit selection course

00:04:18.300 and the border patrol search trauma and rescue team selection course. So he's gone above and beyond.

00:04:23.120 Uh, he served in Texas and DC, Honduras, Columbia, Iraq, the Dominican Republic, among a whole lot

00:04:30.080 of other operations we get into in the discussion. Uh, and I really can't imagine a more qualified

00:04:34.420 man to talk about the unique and challenging work of, uh, protecting this nation's borders.

00:04:40.300 Chief, it's good to sit down with you again. It's good to be here. It's been what a month.

00:04:43.740 You've been on the road for a little while. I've been on the road. It's good to be back in Maine.

00:04:46.080 Yeah, I bet. Um, you've been, well, you've been doing a little, a little personal stuff,

00:04:50.860 a little business stuff as well. Sounds like I have, I have my, uh, both of my sons are in the

00:04:55.200 armed forces. I have one in the Navy and, uh, and one in the air force. And as it just so

00:04:58.940 happens, they both got assigned or stationed down to South Texas right when I transferred

00:05:03.260 from South Texas up to Maine. Is that right? So I went and watched my oldest son get married

00:05:07.140 and then help them move to, uh, the Corpus Christi area. Yeah. And then, uh, by way of

00:05:12.200 DC making my way back up here. Nice. Yeah. And so how long have you been in Maine? You've

00:05:17.320 been here for what? Six or eight months or so. Is that right? Thereabouts by February 3rd

00:05:21.320 was my first official day here. What were your thoughts on coming up here? I had never given

00:05:25.760 Maine much thought. It's a, it's one of those things where, you know, I grew up in Oklahoma

00:05:29.640 in the Midwest. And then of course my career has taken me a lot of places, but mostly on the

00:05:34.040 Southwest border. And I had done a Northern border tour up in Grand Forks, North Dakota

00:05:38.540 for a couple of years. So I knew what the environment and the climate was like, but it

00:05:43.240 just was never an area that I had really researched or given much thought to. So I didn't know what

00:05:47.640 to expect. And so one of the first things you do whenever you, you get a new assignment

00:05:51.120 as you Google, you check out what it's going to look like. And, and man, some of the pictures

00:05:55.940 I was seeing and some of the folks I was talking to that were assigned up here, uh, it was a

00:06:00.520 hidden gem. Uh, now when I left, you know, I left Laredo, Texas and, and the story I like

00:06:06.340 to tell is that it was 89 degrees when I pulled out of there and it just happened to be when

00:06:11.420 the polar vortex was, was moving through. And so as I wound my way up Northeast, I ended

00:06:16.680 up driving right through the middle of it until, uh, I got to Maine and it was negative

00:06:20.480 four. So I think quite the difference. So I got the full, uh, immersion into a, into

00:06:26.700 a winter, but it was an absolutely beautiful site. I mean, of course I don't mind snow,

00:06:31.560 especially in the, in the wintertime around the holiday season. And, uh, I like that there's

00:06:35.720 four seasons and the people are just, uh, it's got that, that home feel. Yeah. Everybody's

00:06:41.580 nice. Everybody takes care of one another. So I consider myself very blessed to have the

00:06:45.560 opportunity to come up here. Yeah. That's what I've noticed too. I've been here for,

00:06:48.660 I want to say three, maybe getting close to four months. And that's one of the things that

00:06:52.560 we've noticed more than anything else is how friendly everybody is more than any other

00:06:56.300 place I've been to. Yep. And it's, uh, yeah, everybody's different. Uh, the, the places that

00:07:00.540 you go are different and it's, you kind of take it all in at the end of the day. Uh, you know,

00:07:04.420 wherever you go, you're going to be as miserable or as happy as you want to be. That's true.

00:07:08.420 You're the only common dominator in that, right? Exactly right. Yeah. And I had my, uh,

00:07:12.400 my predecessor is a chief Dan Hebert. You know, I asked him, I'd known him for a number of years.

00:07:17.360 He was on the Bortec team with me and, and he was, uh, he was chief air for two or three years.

00:07:22.180 And, uh, so I asked him as he was retiring, I said, any words of wisdom, any advice? And, uh,

00:07:26.920 he's got a really severe flat top and he's very stern. And he says, if you're one of those people

00:07:31.600 that stays inside, looking out the window, wishing it was warmer, you're not going to like it.

00:07:35.680 You got to get out and have some fun. That's right. So you, so did you do,

00:07:39.820 I mean, you did part of a winter here than it sounds like I did. Okay. And so what were your,

00:07:44.000 your outdoor activities then? Well, uh, one of the first things I got to do was a snowshoeing.

00:07:49.080 Okay. So we have the border up on the Northern border here is affectionately referred to as the

00:07:53.500 slash because it looks not unlike a, uh, a pole line that's cut through the woods anywhere. There's

00:07:58.960 a, uh, you know, I'm going to say 50 feet or so of, uh, of open area. And yeah, because when I

00:08:05.140 did interrupt you real quick, when, when we got there, you're like, well, here's the border and,

00:08:08.480 and you wouldn't even know it where you're like right here, you're standing on the border.

00:08:11.760 I didn't even know. Well, that's it. And there's just a monument every, every so often. Sometimes

00:08:16.260 that monument may be that tall, or sometimes it may be six feet tall. You just, you never know

00:08:20.200 what you're going to get, but that's your only indicator. A lot of times that that's the border.

00:08:24.320 And so, uh, they took me up there to kind of, uh, get a sense of it. And I think there was probably

00:08:28.220 three feet of snow on the ground at the time, but, uh, they let me as a novice pick my, uh, my snowshoes.

00:08:33.840 And, uh, I'm not going to look to my left cause the individuals in here that, uh, that put me up

00:08:37.860 to this, but I had the, uh, they look the ones that look like tennis rackets and they had some

00:08:42.800 other sportier looking ones. And then they had these ones that look like you could, you could

00:08:46.160 climb a mountain with, they were, you know, they were, they're like little mini skis and

00:08:49.300 they had claws on them. And I'm like, I want those. They look meaner. You know, I'm going to get

00:08:53.420 out there and make sure I'm not going to fall over. And I think the, I don't know how many miles

00:08:57.900 we walked, but I was sinking into the ground a good foot every time that they were up on top.

00:09:02.400 And I was, I was sweat soaked and, and I'm looking for any, you know, any high ground

00:09:07.020 that I can, I can get some purchase. And, and I walked over toward the, uh, the bushes.

00:09:11.160 And what I didn't know is that there's a, there's air pockets, you know, that, uh, that, that

00:09:15.060 hide there. So there was one particular time I walked over and I sunk in all the way up to

00:09:19.140 my chest. And as I turn around to get a helping hand, all I see is the cameras taking the picture

00:09:24.100 and the guy saying, uh, yeah, I was waiting on that to happen.

00:09:27.980 So they knew it was about to happen. Yeah. Because they, they pulled a similar stunt

00:09:32.360 when we were out there together, uh, a month, month and a half ago, when we were in the

00:09:36.160 side-by-sides and we're going up that hill, all of them right there at the top with their

00:09:40.980 cameras, ready to see if something was going to go wrong. So, yeah.

00:09:44.240 And remember, I told you, it's a, that's not out of any, uh, concern for our wellbeing.

00:09:48.480 That's, they want to catch you if we do something wrong.

00:09:50.240 Absolutely.

00:09:50.740 So that whenever you retire someday, that'll be what's playing.

00:09:53.420 They can hold it against you a little bit, roasty a little bit.

00:09:55.740 So what, what brought you up here? I imagine that with, with border patrol, it's, it's

00:10:00.480 pretty much, here's your assignment and that's what you do. Maybe I'm misunderstanding that,

00:10:04.360 but what, what brought you up here?

00:10:06.020 Well, and it's exactly that when you move up into the, uh, the command levels. Uh, so I

00:10:10.200 was the number two, I was a deputy chief in Laredo. And so, uh, they want you to be well-rounded.

00:10:15.260 They want you to get a sense of, uh, of the entirety of the organization and, and, uh, and

00:10:19.440 the challenges that it faces so that you can be the best possible leader.

00:10:22.160 Sure. And so having done, uh, the deputy chief in Laredo, Texas, and for a time I was the

00:10:27.800 acting chief, it was time for me to promote and move up. And so what they had in mind

00:10:32.280 for me and the need that the organization had was, uh, to come up on the Northern border

00:10:35.540 here in Holton because, uh, chief Hebert was retiring. And so for me coming from Oklahoma

00:10:40.980 at, uh, whether I'm in California or Maine or Washington state or Miami or anywhere in

00:10:46.020 between, you know, I, it's an adventure. So, you know, they, they called and said, we need

00:10:50.860 you up there. And I said, how soon do you need me? And, uh, the rest is history.

00:10:54.580 Yeah. So you were, you were stationed in Oklahoma, you were living there and like, where were

00:10:59.440 you before you came, you were in El Paso, weren't you?

00:11:01.700 So before I came up here, so I'll give you the chronology. So I grew up in Oklahoma in

00:11:07.100 a town called Tahlequah, Cherokee capital. I was the first assigned over to, uh, El Centro,

00:11:12.680 California. Okay. So Calexico was the station that I was assigned to. I spent about seven

00:11:17.320 years there. And then I went from there to El Paso. Right. Okay. And El Paso, I was on

00:11:21.700 the, uh, the board patrol tactical unit team. And so they gave me a chance to go to some,

00:11:25.400 some, uh, other countries. I went to Honduras, Colombia, Iraq, uh, Panama, Dominican Republic.

00:11:33.100 And I got a chance to, to, uh, uh, travel a little bit. When I came back, I went to a Washington

00:11:38.060 DC to headquarters. That's another thing that the, that they really look for is to, to have

00:11:41.780 a headquarters tour. And so I did that for a couple of years. And from there, I went to,

00:11:45.480 uh, Grand Forks, North Dakota and spent another couple of years up there. Beautiful place.

00:11:50.640 Loved every second of it. And then went down to the Rio Grande Valley, RGD. That's the,

00:11:54.680 what you hear on the news now is ground zero. Sure. So I spent, uh, three or four years down

00:11:58.920 there. And one of the things that I did was, uh, I commanded the Rio Grande city station.

00:12:02.940 That's one of the busiest and most dangerous stations in the, in the border patrol right now.

00:12:07.520 And then from there I went to Laredo, Texas and I spent about three years there until ultimately

00:12:11.780 coming up here to me. Yeah. So leaving what I imagine is, well, you just said it is really

00:12:17.780 where most of the activity, it seems like, and what we hear a lot of coming up here. Did you feel

00:12:22.060 like that was, I don't want to say downgrade necessarily an assignment, but did you have

00:12:26.780 any sort of resentment or, or, or anything like that because you were coming up here away from

00:12:31.520 a lot of the action down there? No. And in many ways, once you've, I was down there for about

00:12:35.380 eight years, it's a, it's a nice break to have a change of pace, but, uh, every opportunity

00:12:41.520 that I've given is a blessing. It's one of those things where you look at and when would

00:12:45.700 I have ever had the chance in my life, if not for being in the U S border patrol, to

00:12:50.180 do some of these things, to come up here and live in Maine, to meet you, to, uh, you know,

00:12:53.760 some of the people that I've had a chance to, to come across. Uh, it's, it's a blessing

00:12:57.720 and you, and you look at it that way. Um, when you take on the mantle of leadership, you

00:13:03.060 have to be willing to sacrifice for the organization and do what, uh, what's best ultimately for

00:13:07.280 the mission and for the country. And if that's where they need me, then that's where I'm going

00:13:11.280 to go. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, and I appreciate it about that, uh, about you because we had

00:13:16.080 some opportunities to spend a couple of days together and checking everything out. And

00:13:19.760 I think as I posted some of the videos and the things that we got to do, and we'll talk

00:13:22.940 about that, um, I think there was a lot of misunderstanding that there wasn't anything really going

00:13:27.820 on up here, right? That's probably the common misconception is that there isn't, not

00:13:32.900 that there isn't a need necessarily, but that it's, that it would be boring. And based on

00:13:37.240 what we did over those past couple of days, it was, yeah. So what are some of the threats

00:13:42.040 and, uh, some of the assignments that you guys are dealing with and addressing up here,

00:13:47.180 um, that you maybe normally wouldn't think of? So it's two completely different worlds.

00:13:52.340 And I think what the, the important thing to keep in mind is that, uh, it's two different

00:13:57.380 ways of doing business because the environment is different and the threat is different.

00:14:03.160 So on the Southern border, what you deal is, uh, you deal in volume, right? There's a tremendous

00:14:07.800 flow, particularly of illegal immigration. And you have the threats that try and mix in

00:14:13.020 and use that to their, uh, to their advantage to exploit, uh, us being busy.

00:14:17.840 Sure. Right. Well, up here, you don't have that volume, that, that, that flow of, uh, of

00:14:23.540 illegal immigration, but you still have the people that do try and exploit the vulnerabilities.

00:14:28.360 Sure. So what we have up here on the Northern border is a lot of vulnerability. There's a

00:14:33.800 lot of areas that are uncovered. There's a lot of areas where we don't have situational

00:14:37.200 awareness. And so from a border security standpoint, you know, and when I say border security,

00:14:41.960 I'm talking about keeping in or keeping out those that would come into this country to

00:14:45.660 do it harm. We're talking about, uh, criminal aliens. I'm talking about, uh, sexual predators.

00:14:49.800 I'm talking about narcotic smugglers. Those are very real threats. And

00:14:53.440 that doesn't matter what part of the border you're stationed. They always exist because

00:14:56.960 they're always looking to exploit any vulnerability to their advantage. So up here, while we don't

00:15:03.180 have the flow that we deal with, we have a much more vast area. Right.

00:15:06.480 To give you an example in Laredo, Texas, I had 170 miles of border that I was responsible

00:15:11.680 for. And I had almost 2000 men and women out there on patrol to secure it. Okay. Up here

00:15:17.820 in Maine, I have 611 miles of border plus all the coastline. Right. And I have about a

00:15:22.920 10th of that manpower up here. So the coastline is not considered the border, the U S Canada

00:15:28.120 border you're saying. So it's 611 plus whatever it is on the coastline. Correct. So it's not crazy.

00:15:32.960 It's not a border with Canada, but it still is a U S border. Sure. It's an entry. It is. And that's

00:15:37.700 one of the interesting things about the state of Maine is because of that Maine is for all

00:15:41.720 intents and purposes, a peninsula. Yeah. And so the entirety of the state is actually a border

00:15:47.680 state within that 100 miles of, of a U S border. Yeah. You do have the geographical advantage. I

00:15:54.660 would say North, I imagine, but also I would think that those trying to enter the country illegally,

00:16:01.980 especially those with ill intentions are going to change tactics and strategies based on where

00:16:08.180 the vulnerabilities are. And it seems like this is going to be more of a vulnerability because

00:16:13.840 everybody's aware of the Southern border and that's what gets the most attention. And I imagine

00:16:18.680 resources as well. And so I, I can see those tactics shifting, uh, if we're not aware of that

00:16:24.420 up front. Absolutely. And that's one of the things that, uh, as a law enforcement officer that is

00:16:29.160 charged with the mission of keeping this country and its people safe, I have to look at it through

00:16:33.900 that lens at all times. I have to try and think, where will they try and exploit? What will they try

00:16:39.660 and do to come into the country illegally or to do its people harm? And so everything that we do from

00:16:45.260 an operational standpoint is geared toward that perspective. And on the South, on the Southwest

00:16:51.640 border, a lot of times it is so very busy. You're getting phone calls 24 seven, you know, and there's

00:16:57.140 always things going on that, uh, you just try and do what you can, uh, because it, because of the

00:17:02.460 tempo up here, you do have a little bit more of an opportunity to sit back and kind of assess and say,

00:17:06.640 okay, how can I do the best possible job with what we have? One of the things that, uh, that I'm very

00:17:12.760 thankful for is we have a, an outstanding group of people up here. The men and women that are up here

00:17:17.280 on patrol, they are among the most motivated and dedicated patriotic individuals that, uh, that I've

00:17:22.460 ever worked with. They're just, uh, they need more resources. They need more support. Um, they take

00:17:28.600 very seriously their involvement in their communities. And that's one of the things that's, uh, that's

00:17:31.740 extremely important. Um, the state of Maine, you know, they, they have limited law enforcement

00:17:37.240 authorities because it's not just remote for us. It's remote for all law enforcement, right? It's

00:17:42.520 remote for all EMS and all fire departments. So we have border patrol agents that, uh, that back up and

00:17:48.840 respond to law enforcement calls for their community as well. We have a lot of border patrol agents that

00:17:54.240 are EMTs and paramedics, no extra pay, but they take on the added mental responsibility because

00:18:00.980 they care for their community and they want to make a difference. So they have a good,

00:18:04.880 positive, profound impact on their communities, no matter where they're stationed throughout the

00:18:08.000 state. And I'm proud to be a part of that. How do you, uh, advocate for more resources? I mean,

00:18:13.500 that's, that's your role, right? That is your job. So how do you then advocate for those resources and

00:18:19.560 get what you guys need up here? What does that, what does that process look like? So my mission,

00:18:24.020 as I see it, number one is to, is to educate people as to what is the mission and who are these

00:18:29.660 brave men and women that are out there doing that job. I see it every day. And it's, I'm, I'm,

00:18:33.640 I'm in all of them. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm proud of them. And I just, I'm, I'm blessed to be a part

00:18:39.020 of their team. But I also think that we have to make sure that we are including the Northern border

00:18:45.300 and the coastal border into the picture when we're talking about the border security narrative.

00:18:49.860 Yeah. Because nobody, nobody thinks of that. Nobody does. Before my experience,

00:18:53.480 I wouldn't have thought of that. So there's a tendency to just focus on the Southwest border because,

00:18:57.260 well, that's what's going on right now. There's a, there is a crisis on the border that we have

00:19:01.380 been managing for, for quite some time. If you, uh, in my opinion, since 2014 and all the way back

00:19:06.900 to the nineties, when I started, uh, San Diego, you can look at pictures of San Diego and how it looked

00:19:11.280 before, uh, before we, uh, moved a bunch of infrastructure and personnel there. And it totally

00:19:15.700 changed the landscape of the dynamic, but we've been dealing with influxes of, uh, of migrants for,

00:19:20.960 for decades. But, uh, we have to make sure that when everybody looks at CBP, our parent agency and

00:19:28.680 the U S border patrol as an agency and how they want to resource us, that they don't just get

00:19:33.520 locked into looking at the Southwest border. They look at the entirety of our mission, the scope of

00:19:38.200 our operations. Because when you say we have 20,000 border patrol agents, that sounds a lot different.

00:19:44.120 If you say it's a long 2000 miles of border with Mexico versus the entirety of our country,

00:19:49.420 5,500 miles with Canada, untold miles of coast, uh, plus the, uh, the border with Mexico. Yeah.

00:19:55.540 That changed the dynamic a little bit. Yeah. And I imagine you talk about the public perception

00:20:00.540 is, well, let me back up. Do you feel like the public perception is generally good of, of border

00:20:07.780 patrol agents? Do you feel like there's a little bit of tainting over the past, maybe even 12 months or

00:20:13.180 so? What's your thoughts there? So I think that, uh, the perception is predominantly good. I really

00:20:18.280 do. We have people that stop us all the time and thank us for our service. We have people that,

00:20:22.300 uh, you know, you'll be in a restaurant and they'll buy your, uh, your, your meal for you. And then you

00:20:26.540 don't ever know who they were. Sure. You know, it's, uh, there are people that, that see things

00:20:31.360 differently and that's, that's the right as Americans. That's one of the freedoms that we fight to

00:20:35.380 protect. The only thing that I seek to make sure is that everybody has all the information from an

00:20:40.700 objective perspective to be able to make an informed decision about the mission and the men and women

00:20:45.200 that do this job. I mean, you bring up a great point with objectivity, right? Is, is you think

00:20:50.260 a lot of this stuff is just factual, but there's so much emotion and outrage that gets brought into

00:20:56.480 the equation. And so people can't look at it objectively or they refuse to look at it objectively

00:21:01.300 and they get emotionally involved as opposed to looking at it from a factual standpoint and then

00:21:07.200 addressing those threats. And that's where I think, uh, all the education in the world,

00:21:11.640 just presenting the facts makes a huge difference. It's a, there, sometimes there is

00:21:16.280 because there's misinformation out there because folks have an agenda and their narrative depends

00:21:21.460 on that agenda. They're not necessarily presenting at least not all the facts, if not inaccurate facts

00:21:27.740 about who we are and what we do. We are part of a much larger system when it comes to border

00:21:33.300 security. And when it comes to immigration, our role in that system is very defined. There are

00:21:38.840 several key players and components that have to work in lockstep with one another for the system to

00:21:43.720 work. And because we are the law enforcement aspect of it and we are the, the uniformed aspect,

00:21:48.400 we are the most visible symbol. And so that usually means that most of the attention gets, uh,

00:21:53.240 focused on us.

00:21:54.060 Sure. How do you draw the line between doing your job and getting political? Cause I imagine that line

00:22:01.700 probably gets pretty muddied for you guys in some capacity.

00:22:05.500 For us, it's absolutely easy. We don't get political. That's what we are. We are public

00:22:08.860 servants. We are government employees. And so I have worked for Clinton. I've worked for Bush.

00:22:16.800 I've worked for Obama. And now I have worked for Trump. It does not matter what the administration

00:22:21.560 is. Our job, our mission is always the same. And whoever's elected, that is our commander in chief.

00:22:27.500 And that administration is who we work for. That's it. So it really, for our, from our

00:22:32.040 perspective, it's, it's, it's easy. We simply present the facts about our job and our mission

00:22:36.340 and we let the public inform themselves.

00:22:39.600 Let me, let me give you a, a, what if or a scenario. Let's, let's say, uh, legislation

00:22:44.580 was passed or, or, or put through that changed your role as border patrol agents. Uh, let's,

00:22:52.660 let's take an extreme example, beginning to open up borders, maybe more so than they have in the

00:22:56.600 past. Do you then advocate for, uh, closing those borders or do you simply follow those

00:23:02.720 directives?

00:23:03.560 So as a subject matter expert, spending more than half my life in the border security business,

00:23:08.280 I owe it to whoever I work for to give them my honest opinion. And so I will let them know

00:23:14.980 what I think the correct course of action is. And, and I will advocate for that at the end

00:23:19.320 of the day. If we are told, understood your perspective, this is how we want you to march

00:23:24.660 out. Then our job is to do it. So that, that's a really good point. So do you feel like your,

00:23:29.300 your opinion and your level of expertise then is being heard and is taken into consideration

00:23:35.980 when it comes to some of these legislative actions that are taken upon by our politicians?

00:23:41.220 So I do, I think that they hear us. I think that they understand. And I think that they, uh,

00:23:46.480 that we have done the best we can to inform them that the decisions they choose to make are their

00:23:52.080 own. There are some that, uh, that agree with our assessment and there are some that don't.

00:23:56.840 And that's, uh, that's one of the great things about having a, a co-equal, uh, branch system

00:24:01.600 of government where you have the legislative body and the executive body. The legislators

00:24:05.440 are over there, uh, making laws that they want us to enforce. And so, uh, we try and inform

00:24:11.380 them as best we can. And, uh, there are certain things that we need them to act in order to be

00:24:16.020 able to do our job. And so that's what we advocate for, but it doesn't matter where they sit

00:24:20.400 on the aisle. We, we work very closely with all of them.

00:24:23.600 It's, it's always funny to hear somebody when you say, you know, someone, some don't agree

00:24:27.440 with our assessment. It's like, how could you disagree with somebody who's boots on ground?

00:24:31.620 Who's, who's been, uh, part of border patrol as long as you have, is there a general consensus

00:24:36.660 with border patrol agents, uh, as far as their opinion of the way that our border should be

00:24:43.080 maintained or is there contention within the ranks? If you will, not to my, uh, not to my knowledge.

00:24:49.240 I think everybody's pretty much in lockstep on this. If you've ever worn a uniform, put the badge

00:24:54.740 and the patch on and went out there and done this job, I think it's pretty universal in our sentiment

00:24:59.840 that, uh, we need people, good people doing the job, standing beside us. And we need force

00:25:06.520 multipliers and those force multipliers, you know, personnel or technology infrastructure,

00:25:10.960 uh, equipment, those help us do our job, not only better, but safer. And so when you ask a border

00:25:16.800 patrol agent, for example, do we need a physical barrier? They're looking at it, not just from a

00:25:22.040 standpoint of helping us do our job better. They're also looking at it from a standpoint of,

00:25:26.080 is it going to help me get home to my family safely at the end of every shift? We need the

00:25:31.140 advantage out there to shift towards the men and women in uniform that keep us safe and not be in

00:25:36.440 favor of the criminals and the bad guys that are trying to do people harm. And so it, it, it can be a

00:25:42.560 personal experience for, for the folks that go out there and do this job every single day, because

00:25:46.400 they're looking at it from that lens, not just what's best for the mission.

00:25:50.340 Right. So, so what is your take on, uh, an actual physical wall?

00:25:54.740 So a wall, and I'm glad you asked that it's, it's a tool. It's, it's a, it's a force multiplier

00:25:59.620 that especially in the right places makes all the difference in the world. It absolutely can help

00:26:04.580 the way that we look at it as border security experts. We have a, uh, an area where somebody can

00:26:10.960 cross the border illegally. We have a limited amount of time given where that area is to detect,

00:26:17.060 respond to interdict and resolve that illicit incursion in the right area where a wall put up

00:26:23.800 can extend that amount of time increases the likelihood that we're going to be successful

00:26:28.720 in that endeavor. That's where a wall makes sense. There's other areas where we have all the time in

00:26:33.680 the world to detect because it's out in the middle of nowhere, right? Where we will tell you that

00:26:37.220 infrastructure to respond and technology to detect make the biggest difference. So it just

00:26:43.220 depends on the environment. If you go along the border, the border is not the same in any given

00:26:47.700 sector. And so you need the right tool for the right place to do the job. Right. Yeah. That makes

00:26:53.280 sense. It's, it's just interesting because I think even saying that this is a tool that could be

00:26:57.600 effective in the right scenario, which is what you said, uh, even still that could be taken out of

00:27:02.500 context and then politicized when in all reality, that's again, objective opinion. This is a tool.

00:27:08.240 It works in these scenarios based on your expertise and it is what it is, but it's just so

00:27:13.540 fascinating to me that people want to argue with the reality. It's just an interesting thing to me.

00:27:20.420 And that sometimes is a blessing for those of us that are public servants because we just put the

00:27:26.140 facts out there and we let everybody else argue. Yeah. And then do your job.

00:27:29.840 Whatever the decision is, we have advised and informed as best we can. And at the end of the

00:27:34.740 day, no matter what the decision is, we're going to go out there and we're going to do the job.

00:27:38.160 What are some of the other, uh, effective force multipliers? I mean, we've got walls,

00:27:41.820 of course. Um, do you talk about some of the technology? What are some of the things that you

00:27:45.500 guys are utilizing to, uh, to leverage your efforts? Well, so right off the bat situational

00:27:52.040 awareness. So that's, uh, up here on the Northern border. That's the big thing,

00:27:56.400 the big ticket item for us. We need to know what's coming at us. We need to have persistent

00:28:01.140 surveillance along the border so that we can at least tell if there's a threat and if that threat

00:28:05.840 exists, what is it that's coming at us? Because only then can I tell you what I need to resource

00:28:10.840 against that threat. So it all starts with that situational awareness piece.

00:28:15.620 How do you, how do you do that? Because with the 611 miles of, of, of border, and then of course,

00:28:20.660 the coastal lines, I mean, you, you just don't have enough manpower to be able to handle that.

00:28:25.040 So, so what is it that you're doing to manage all of that area?

00:28:29.440 So the detection pieces that we have, we have, uh, we have cameras, you know,

00:28:32.880 much like the game cameras that your son was showing us earlier, you know, uh, a little bit

00:28:36.940 more, uh, I would have upgraded, but, but a similar concept, right? We have a sensors, a seismic and

00:28:43.960 infrared sensors that are in place that they can detect people or at least movement on the ground.

00:28:49.220 Uh, we have, uh, air assets that, uh, that will fly over the area and do some, uh, some imagery that,

00:28:54.180 that let us know if there's any changes that have taken place in the, in the, in the terrain.

00:28:58.000 And then, uh, a huge piece of that is the community awareness. That's one of the aspects of the

00:29:03.400 northern border that really cannot be emphasized enough. We cannot do the job without the community

00:29:09.120 involvement. And the, uh, the folks that have lived here for generations, they know when something's

00:29:13.520 out of the ordinary, they know whenever they see something that doesn't belong, they call us all

00:29:19.000 the time. So to go back to your question about, is there support for our mission? You have to see,

00:29:23.380 uh, the people that are involved. They, they, they, they contact us when they see something,

00:29:27.160 they're always wanting us to come out and investigate a large part of what we come across

00:29:32.360 is as a result of the partnerships with our communities. And so that's why it's so very

00:29:37.700 important for us to be a part of those communities. And that's why the men and women that do this job,

00:29:41.620 they work so hard every day to make sure that this case,

00:29:43.380 I mean, even when we were, when we were spending those couple of days up there, uh, driving around,

00:29:47.880 I mean, everybody's waving as we were driving by and it seemed like overwhelmingly the, the support

00:29:53.260 was positive. Good. Well, it's just, uh, what I have seen, uh, the men and women that are up here,

00:29:59.020 there's a lot of people that are, and I've learned that they're, they're called Mainers. You're either

00:30:02.740 from away or you're a Mainer. Right. And so there's a lot of Mainers that are, that are border

00:30:06.500 relations because this is home for them. And so they have family with roots to go back generations

00:30:11.580 here. And, and you have ones that have, uh, that have homesteaded, they've come up here and fell

00:30:15.120 in love with it. So they genuinely care that the, the, the communities that they're a part of

00:30:19.760 matter. The people that, uh, that they're, that they're next to, that's their neighbors,

00:30:24.460 that's their friends, that's their family members. And so they develop these strong bonds in these,

00:30:28.300 these relationships. They care about what happens to these communities and they, they,

00:30:32.260 they establish that, that rapport, those relationships that, uh, that you can't mimic,

00:30:36.120 you can't buy, you can't, uh, you can't reassign. That's the intangible benefit

00:30:41.500 behind what these men and women bring to the table up here.

00:30:44.400 Yeah. You, and I think you had told me that, uh, a story, uh, of somebody had called in a

00:30:50.100 suspicious individual. Um, I can't remember exactly when that is, but do you know what

00:30:53.780 story I'm referring to? So, and I think they ended up being from, I can't remember. They were

00:30:58.080 from another country. They came here to, to escape. I don't know if it was some sort of persecution

00:31:02.680 or something. Um, but they ended up being a criminal in that country.

00:31:06.580 So there's, there's two different ones that I, that I was told about, uh, when I first got here,

00:31:10.620 of course they, they did this all before, before I arrived. So they've been doing this

00:31:15.000 game a lot longer than, uh, than before Jason Owen showed up. The, uh, the one that really

00:31:20.520 stuck out of my mind is it was a, it was a, uh, a community member that just saw something

00:31:25.580 out of place and called us and we responded and ended up being sure enough, somebody that

00:31:28.840 had, had crossed through that area that we, uh, that we were out on boats, you know, and,

00:31:33.220 uh, he ended up just recently being convicted in the Boston area. He was a, uh, uh, an accused

00:31:38.620 war criminal back in Rwanda. That was, he and his family were responsible for the genocide

00:31:42.840 of, I think it was 800,000 people, something, uh, something crazy. And that is the type of

00:31:48.560 person that we are looking for. That is the type of person for which we exist. That is

00:31:53.560 the border security mission. That's the type of individual that we were out there doing

00:31:57.520 what we do to try and find. We would never have been able to find that person had it not

00:32:02.360 been for an alert community member that thought enough to call and have us come check it

00:32:06.680 out. Yeah. I imagine for every one community member that calls something like that in, there's

00:32:12.800 probably 10 or more who dismiss it or write it off or try to justify it or, you know what

00:32:19.700 I'm saying? And so I, I imagine really getting them aware of what's going on and then having

00:32:24.540 the, maybe it's courage to actually call something in and let you guys do your work.

00:32:30.680 It is. And we're trying to make that as easy as possible. We're actually getting ready to launch

00:32:34.480 an app, uh, for the state of Maine, which is, which is our area of responsibility up here

00:32:39.280 in the Holton sector. And so that, uh, on that app, they can not only see the news releases

00:32:44.300 that, uh, that, uh, the things that the men and women are out there doing, but among other

00:32:48.700 things, they'll have that, uh, report suspicious activity where all they have to do on that app

00:32:52.880 is just, uh, type out an email and it'll go to our, our, uh, uh, communication center and

00:32:58.880 they'll dispatch folks. So they don't even have to pick up a phone and call. They can,

00:33:02.020 they can do it on their app now. And so we're trying to make it as easy as possible. But at

00:33:05.980 the end of the day, you know, this is, this is all of our communities. And so, um, we all have

00:33:10.940 a piece, we all have a stake in protecting them and making sure that, uh, that everybody in them

00:33:15.480 stay safe. Yeah. What, uh, what percentage of, and I know this is a pretty broad question and it

00:33:20.760 may be hard to answer, but what percentage of people would you say who are crossing the border,

00:33:24.520 wherever it may be, are, are here with, uh, noble intentions, meaning they want to escape some

00:33:31.320 persecution or after a better life. I realize it's still a legal activity, but the intentions

00:33:36.160 are noble. The majority. Would you say? Absolutely. Yeah. It's so for example, most of the folks that

00:33:41.120 are coming across, uh, on the, on the Southwest border, they are people that are either economic

00:33:45.360 migrants that are, that are fleeing poverty and looking for a better way of life up here,

00:33:49.060 or they are legitimately seeking asylum. There have, there are, you know, a good number of them that

00:33:54.580 are, that are using the loophole of the asylum claim when in fact they are actually economic

00:33:58.540 migrants, but there are legitimate asylum claims to, uh, for example, we have a large population

00:34:05.780 that just recently came up to the state of Maine that, uh, that came across ultimately traveling

00:34:10.220 from, uh, the, the Congo and Angola. Uh, those people are fleeing horrific conditions. You know,

00:34:16.640 that those places are the reasons that our asylum laws exist and we want to make sure that those

00:34:22.080 people are protected and sheltered. So there are a large number of people that, yes, they're coming up

00:34:27.120 here for, uh, for economic reasons or for, uh, refugee status that, uh, that's why we have to

00:34:33.060 have a good immigration system in place to be able to facilitate that. The problem is that in amongst

00:34:40.200 that flow, you have the bad actors that try and exploit the fact that there's that large number of

00:34:46.380 people coming across or the vulnerabilities on our Northern border. Those are the ones that we have to

00:34:50.900 be vision for. Those are the ones that we have to be particularly paying close attention to. If you talk

00:34:55.480 to the border patrol agents that are on the Southwest border right now, one of their biggest frustrations

00:34:58.600 is they're dealing with the flow of family units and unaccompanied children and asylum seekers

00:35:05.160 instead of being able to go out there on patrol and look for those bad actors.

00:35:09.080 They're inundated with their list off.

00:35:09.820 Yes.

00:35:10.140 Sure.

00:35:10.640 So their frustration is, is, is not that they're so very busy because at the end of the day,

00:35:15.900 they're hard workers. Their frustration is they're worried about what's getting across

00:35:20.900 while they're dealing with this crisis on the border.

00:35:23.500 Yeah. I mean, you use that, you use that word crisis on the border, but that's even that is

00:35:27.560 kind of like, Oh, well, there isn't a crisis. Well, there is a crisis. And you've, you've

00:35:30.620 used that term a couple of times now. I mean, is that how you'd classify it?

00:35:33.960 It is absolutely a crisis.

00:35:35.460 So what makes it that?

00:35:36.800 Well, so the very definition of a disaster or a crisis situation is when the, when the event

00:35:42.960 exceeds the resources that you have available to address it. And so when you have a system in

00:35:50.080 place that just cannot address the flow, when I say the system, I'm going beyond just the

00:35:53.980 border patrol. When you have not enough border patrol agents to be able to process all of

00:35:59.080 the people that, uh, that are coming across, when you have, uh, ICE, ERO and, uh, and HHS

00:36:05.460 that does not have the bed space available to house these folks. When you don't have enough

00:36:09.920 immigration judges to get these, uh, these cases processed in a good amount of time, when

00:36:15.080 you don't have enough CIS, uh, adjudicators to look at the asylum claims in a reasonable

00:36:19.580 amount of time, our system has been overwhelmed from bottom to top. That is the very definition

00:36:26.220 of a crisis because what happens is everybody along the way is overwhelmed and the people

00:36:31.540 that are coming across are impacted as well. And so you see people that are stuck in holding

00:36:35.880 areas for, for a longer period of time. You see people that, uh, that are exposed to smugglers

00:36:42.080 and criminals and cartels that, uh, that are taking advantage of them in, in horrific

00:36:46.740 ways. Some of the things that I saw down there in Laredo, it, uh, it's a shame from the moment

00:36:53.420 that these folks leave their home and they, they start this journey North just to get

00:36:57.640 to the border. They're in the hands of some bad, bad people. No doubt. And, uh, I've seen

00:37:02.220 stash houses that, uh, you know, they should be condemned. I've seen they don't have running

00:37:06.840 water. They don't have restrooms and, and, and they're, they're kept there against their

00:37:09.940 wheel for a couple of weeks at a time. There's no air conditioning and it's a hundred plus

00:37:13.460 outside. And then they get put into the back of these semi tractor traders and they're locked

00:37:17.500 in there and there's no air conditioning there. And if they're lucky enough to survive that

00:37:22.060 when they get to the next point, then they're, uh, they're, they're trafficked. They're put

00:37:26.900 into, uh, you know, I've seen the females exploited sexually. I've seen the kids abused. It's

00:37:33.420 just, it's not a good situation to have to be in and it wouldn't have to exist if there

00:37:38.320 were a way to take care of legitimate immigration claims that the system could actually process

00:37:46.880 everybody that's trying to come in. How do you, so do you have some solutions or thoughts

00:37:52.280 or ideas on what is missing or what could be implemented to help with that process?

00:37:56.300 So just at the highest level, and that's why you probably heard a bunch of us say it's,

00:37:59.680 it's not just a border security crisis. It's a policy crisis. It's going to take both of

00:38:04.820 those to actually address the situation. We cannot ignore the border security mission.

00:38:08.580 That's why the U S border patrol exists, but you also have, as you alluded to good people

00:38:14.380 that are just seeking a better way of life. You have good people that are, that are fleeing

00:38:17.680 terrible conditions. The, the policies that are in place, the, uh, you know, immigration process

00:38:24.060 needs to be able to address that, uh, at, at the proper flow right now. You know, if you're

00:38:30.060 going to be waiting for two or three years just to have your, your case, well, is that acceptable?

00:38:33.820 Would that be acceptable for you? No. So it's not just a, uh, a silver bullet solution where

00:38:38.480 you say, you know, just give a bunch more border patrol agents. Yeah. There's more to it than

00:38:43.300 that. Right. You know, you have to take away that pull factor that makes them want to come

00:38:46.900 across illegally in the first place. Guys, I need to hit the pause button real quick.

00:38:51.560 I want to make a very, very quick announcement. Uh, several months ago, we hosted the first ever

00:38:55.760 order of man, uh, event in Maine appropriately called the main event. And I'm going to tell you

00:39:02.180 that we have a few more spots for next year's events eight to be exact. Uh, it's going to be

00:39:07.660 held May 29th through the 31st, 2020. And it's going to be another experience. Unlike any other,

00:39:15.000 it's all designed to give you tools and resources, the brotherhood, accountability, camaraderie

00:39:19.600 that really can only be found when men stand shoulder to shoulder in a common cause and towards

00:39:25.500 a common objective and goal. Uh, it's a jam packed event and we've got some very, very powerful

00:39:31.180 presenters coming in to speak, uh, some unique experiences that I can't and won't completely

00:39:36.100 share with you right now. And some incredible food as well, which is good. It's always good to

00:39:40.300 break bread with other, uh, motivated and ambitious men. So if you want to band with these guys who are

00:39:45.860 on the same path as you, then make sure you claim one of the last spots remaining head to

00:39:50.480 order of man.com slash main event. Again, that's order of man.com slash main event. Once these eight

00:39:56.560 spots are secured, we're closing it down and we likely won't do another one until 2021. Again,

00:40:03.420 order of man.com slash main event. You can do that after the conversation for now. Let's get back to

00:40:07.700 my conversation with Jason, but how do you, how do you do away with that? And when we don't have so

00:40:14.220 much, we don't have any control over what another country does or how they run their politics or

00:40:18.300 their, or how they're doing economically. I mean, really as a country, we can focus on ourselves and

00:40:22.780 give aid to those countries who need it. But outside of that, there's not really a whole lot

00:40:27.280 we can do to take away that incentive other than maybe not be as, I don't know, powerful or

00:40:33.800 economically, uh, uh, well off as we are. You know what I'm saying? Well, and that, of course,

00:40:38.960 that's why we have the state department. And there's a lot of smart people that, uh, that work

00:40:42.060 in the economic side and the diplomacy side that, uh, that, uh, you know, I envy the job that they do

00:40:47.560 because they get to see some amazing people in some amazing places, but they have a very tough job as

00:40:51.100 well. No doubt. Yeah. For my part, I focus on the, uh, on, on my aspect of it, the border security

00:40:55.720 piece and the border patrol is specific to anything and everything that comes in between the ports of

00:41:00.840 entry that that's, that's traffic that comes in illicitly. Right. So anything that comes in at

00:41:05.580 the ports of entry, that's going to be CBP, but it's the office of field operations. Those are the

00:41:10.240 guys and girls in blue, you know, and then you have the air Marine folks that patrol the coast and

00:41:14.680 support our guys on the ground. Those are the three operational components of customs and border

00:41:19.640 protection. So the border patrol agents that out there, they're, they're actually looking for bad

00:41:25.580 actors. They're looking for people that were coming in to do this country harm. Well, when you have

00:41:29.900 the folks that, for example, are seeking asylum, if they can't come into the port of entry because

00:41:34.820 they're, you know, the port of entry can't physically accommodate the number, some of them

00:41:39.960 will get frustrated. And so they'll come in between the ports of entry. Well, for all intents and

00:41:44.740 purposes, they're breaking the law. It's legal. They're making an illegal entry. So when they encounter

00:41:48.460 a border patrol agent, the first thing we do is we arrest them because they just broke the law.

00:41:52.980 Sure. At that time, they'll say, officer, I want to claim asylum. Well, what that does is that puts

00:41:58.440 on hold that, uh, that, uh, processing for breaking the law for, for illegal entry into the country

00:42:04.740 until their asylum claim is adjudicated. And so once that's done, if their asylum claim is,

00:42:11.200 is validated, then they'll be allowed to, to stay here under that asylum. But if it's not,

00:42:15.760 then we go right back into, okay, you entered the country illegally. So now we're going into

00:42:19.560 removal proceedings. So it's, that's why we tell everybody do it the right way, go through the

00:42:25.200 port of entry, claim asylum. That way you can be paroled into the country pending that claim

00:42:29.360 and not be deported or removed at the end of it.

00:42:34.280 Sure. So what's the process for determining whether somebody is genuinely seeking asylum or

00:42:40.300 using that as a loophole to enter the country legally? So a lot of it is based on the interviews.

00:42:45.180 So the, uh, the agents or the officers will encounter the individual and they'll, they'll

00:42:48.880 conduct interviews and find out their background, where they're coming from, why, what their,

00:42:53.640 their claim to asylum is. And then we also work closely with the countries of origin. So we'll

00:42:58.860 talk to those folks and, and, you know, we have very good communications and most people don't

00:43:03.140 realize that with, you know, with, especially with Mexico, not just with Canada, but with the

00:43:07.560 Northern triangle countries as well. And, and so there's databases that they have and, and,

00:43:11.560 and they share those with us. So we do everything we can to find out if that person's intentions

00:43:15.740 are true and if what they're telling us is honest. Right. And if it's not, then that's when those

00:43:21.480 claims will be rejected. Yeah. So I imagine in order to limit the amount of genuine asylum seekers

00:43:27.500 that are entering illegally would be to smooth the flow at the, uh, ports of entry. Then is that

00:43:37.160 where the, the, where it's all getting bogged down right there? Well, if you can imagine

00:43:42.120 what the job of the men and women at the ports of entry is, CBP is not only a border security

00:43:48.260 entity. It's also charged with facilitating lawful trade and travel into this country. Sure. So

00:43:53.380 you have legitimate travelers every day. You have even citizens coming in and out. Right. Sure.

00:43:58.800 Huge amounts of cargo that are, that are coming in, going both directions. You have a valid

00:44:03.480 visa holders that, that come in to, to visit for the day or for various reasons. And so

00:44:08.880 they're having to facilitate that, but Oh, by the way, also deal with this. They're also

00:44:13.660 looking for people that are exploiting that, that route as well. And then add to that, you

00:44:18.980 have a vast amount of asylees, people seeking asylum. They just get overwhelmed. Right. There's

00:44:24.920 just not enough infrastructure and personnel at the ports of entry to be able to do it. The

00:44:29.800 men and women out there are doing the best they can, just like the border patrol agents

00:44:32.660 every single day. But that's where we go back to. This is why it's a crisis because

00:44:36.520 at every point the system is overwhelmed. Hmm. Is it just a matter of having more resources

00:44:41.960 there or actually changing the system or maybe a combination of both? A combination of

00:44:45.760 both. Yeah. It has, it has to be. That's why whenever you'll talk to the leadership of

00:44:49.320 CBP, DHS, uh, border patrol, we all say we need Congress to act. We need these changes in

00:44:54.720 policy to take place. What, what would some of those be? Well, so they, when we look at the

00:45:00.060 Flores Reno, uh, agreement. So we're limited on how, how long we can hold people. And so

00:45:06.160 what happens is if they come across as a family unit with children, we have no choice because

00:45:12.580 we don't have the detention space to hold families. It's only meant to hold single populations.

00:45:17.920 Hmm. And so they can't be in those environments because well, they shouldn't be. Right. And so

00:45:23.100 after a certain amount of time, they must be released. Well, that becomes a loophole because

00:45:26.800 when they come in, they know that, Hey, the system's overwhelmed. Right. So just outweighed

00:45:30.760 it. Yeah. So just outweighed it. And we're going to be given a, a free pass to be in the country

00:45:34.820 until our court date. The court date may be two or three years and that long, a very small

00:45:40.360 percentage even show up. So they just disappear into the country because if Jason Owens comes

00:45:45.460 in illegally into the United States and I say, I want to claim asylum and I want my case to be in

00:45:51.740 the Boston area. Okay. That's my choice. You have no say so on that. The government has no say so on

00:45:57.900 that. There's also no guarantee that I'm going to go to Boston. Right. I can go to anywhere that I

00:46:02.860 want. Right. And if I don't show up for my court date, where am I at? Right. We don't, we don't

00:46:09.080 have no idea. That's the loophole that gets exploited. There are good people that are making

00:46:13.260 valid claims and that will go through the process the way that it should be. But there's also those that

00:46:18.220 are exploiting that particular loophole. So changing those conditions, those policies so

00:46:22.760 that it takes away that loophole. That's an example of the types of things that we need

00:46:26.620 Congress to act and fix. I might, I know this is oversimplified, but when I hear this, I think,

00:46:32.860 well, why can't we just put something in place that says you cannot, you cannot claim asylum other

00:46:37.700 than these checkpoints. And so you will be turned away. You will be detained and deported if for

00:46:43.140 whatever reason, if you're not going through these checkpoints. So that's, uh, again, that's for

00:46:48.040 Congress to, uh, to, to weigh in on and decide. We have to be very careful. It's a very delicate

00:46:52.480 balance because at the end of the day, there are people that legitimately need asylum here. And so

00:46:57.220 we don't want to go so far as to, to take away that, uh, that ability, but we also have to be

00:47:02.340 mindful that there are those that would exploit it. Right. And so that is for the congressional

00:47:07.040 leaders to, to get together and figure out how can we manage this problem? In the meantime,

00:47:10.860 you have the men and women that are doing the law enforcement mission that are doing the best we

00:47:15.720 can with the situation until it gets better. Well, you, and you say it's, it's for those

00:47:20.320 leaders to determine, but I would actually say it's for us to determine by getting the information

00:47:26.420 at hand. Cause there's a lot that I learned that I wasn't aware of. And I want to talk about some of

00:47:30.760 these things, uh, and then electing leaders who are going to uphold our principles that we espouse and

00:47:36.700 that we want to see taken care of. And so that's one of the responsibilities as

00:47:40.680 public servants is we simply can educate the public because we take for granted a lot of

00:47:45.380 times that everybody knows what we know because we have been doing this job and we've been so close

00:47:49.860 to it. And you may not be surprised because now, you know, you're, you're one of them, but you meet

00:47:56.000 people all over the country that, uh, they really don't know a lot about what's going on on the border

00:48:01.900 other than what they see on the news. They don't know a lot about the mission of CBP, the mission of

00:48:06.120 the border patrol. Well, that's our responsibility. We have to get that information out there. We have

00:48:11.100 to present the objective facts and say, here it is. You are the citizens that, uh, that we serve and

00:48:17.420 protect, make the decision as you see fit. But, but what we owe you is all the information,

00:48:23.660 all the facts so that you can make the most informed decision possible.

00:48:26.500 You owe us that, but we owe it to ourselves to get educated. And I think that's part of the

00:48:32.040 biggest problem is that we, we just aren't willing to invest the time required. And we hope,

00:48:37.380 right. We hope that you guys are doing a good job. We hope that our legislators are enacting policy

00:48:42.300 that will serve us as citizens well. But it's a, it's amazing to me how many people are misinformed

00:48:47.320 and refuse to get involved to some degree or spend, you know, any amount of time learning and being

00:48:53.480 educated so they can make informed decisions. Well, and that's why, uh, you know, having folks like

00:48:57.640 you come out and, uh, and show your audience, you know, what you see is so very important.

00:49:03.140 That's why I would say you can't take one opinion or one person's perspective at face value.

00:49:08.820 You need to research it for yourself. You need to see it for yourself. You need to talk to the people

00:49:12.480 that deal with it day in and day out. There's always two sides to every story. And in my experience,

00:49:17.560 if you're on either extreme, you're probably wrong, right? There's always the, uh, the middle road that

00:49:25.820 generally is, is the way things actually are. And so we, we've lived that and breathed that for

00:49:29.860 decades. And I don't, I don't, uh, you know, I don't expect that'll ever change because our job

00:49:34.440 is, uh, the, the mission itself, especially the immigration mission can be so very polarizing and

00:49:39.200 people have very strong emotional feelings about it. And that's understandable. That's one of the

00:49:42.900 great things about this country is you can feel however you want. You have the right to voice your

00:49:48.100 opinion. You have the right to cast your vote. That's what we want to protect every single day.

00:49:52.360 I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I agree with that. So one of the things that I

00:49:58.260 think there's a lot of misunderstanding with is how these different entities and branches work.

00:50:02.400 Cause when you say border patrol, I think what most people and myself included previously is that

00:50:07.880 that's all of securing the border, right? That's court customs and border protection. That's ice.

00:50:13.240 That's, that's everybody, border patrol. It's everybody, but it doesn't actually work like that.

00:50:16.360 So break, so break that down for me in, in the simplest terms possible. So we can help people

00:50:21.640 understand some of this, including a refresher for me. Okay. Gotcha. So department of homeland

00:50:25.960 security, right? That is the department that has the border security entities in it, right? Under the

00:50:33.440 department of homeland security, you have CBP customs and border protection, and you have ice. Okay.

00:50:39.460 Those two are equal to one another. Okay. Within CBP and within ice, you have sub components. Okay.

00:50:47.300 On the CBP side at the operational level, you have border patrol, air and marine operations and

00:50:54.960 office of field operations. Okay. Okay. What is office of field operations? Office of field

00:50:59.240 operations are the folks in blue, the uniforms in blue. So those are the checkpoints. They are at the

00:51:05.160 ports of entry. Ports of entry, right. Okay. Checkpoints are different. I'll get to that in a

00:51:07.760 second. So the ports of entry, now that can be a land port, that can be a seaport, that can be an

00:51:11.900 airport, anywhere that you can make a legitimate entry into the country. Okay. Those folks deal

00:51:17.180 with that. Right. Okay. Guys and girls in blue. The border patrol are the ones that are in green.

00:51:22.140 And they're at check, they can be at checkpoints. We are at checkpoints. We are out in the green and

00:51:25.780 white vehicles. We are out, we are out patrolling between the ports of entry. And our exclusive job

00:51:30.340 is to ensure that nothing and no one with bad intent comes into this country. Sure. So we are

00:51:37.540 arresting bad actors. So if you come across a border patrol agent, it's because you're probably

00:51:42.220 doing something wrong or you're in and they're out there looking for somebody. Something suspicious

00:51:46.420 or you're, you're near that activity. Exactly. Sure. So those make up the frontline interdictors,

00:51:52.880 the frontline agents out there doing the job on a day-to-day basis. Over at ICE, you have

00:51:58.460 homeland security investigations and you have enforcement removal operations. Okay. So that is all to do with

00:52:04.340 the interior. That is all to do with investigating the ones that are responsible for the smuggling

00:52:11.080 activity. Right. So if you can look at it like a police department, you have the uniforms and you

00:52:16.380 have the detectives. Sure. CBP and ICE. Makes sense. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. Because

00:52:22.320 I know even after you told me, I'm like, okay, wait, hold on a second. Let me back up. Let me make sure I

00:52:26.920 get this right. And then, but then you have some other things that you've done, um, BORSTAR and BORTAC.

00:52:31.940 Is that, are those acronyms? Yes. Is that correct? Okay. So explain what those are because that's

00:52:36.860 something that I think a lot of people just are not aware of exists. So I'm actually glad you brought

00:52:43.000 this up because as you know, we are actively recruiting, uh, for border patrol and for CBP.

00:52:48.700 And, and, uh, much like most of the folks in your audience, you know, growing up, I knew I wanted to

00:52:53.940 get into this type of a profession. You know, there's a lot of folks that are in the military. They're

00:52:57.980 looking at getting out and what am I going to do next? And if you watch TV and you see,

00:53:02.120 you know, what some of these other agencies do, it's actually not very accurate to what the real

00:53:07.760 life mission is. The board patrol is exactly what you see. What you see is what you get. You are out

00:53:13.520 on patrol every single day in some of the most remote, austere terrain. You have some of the best

00:53:19.260 training in, in law enforcement that you go through. You're working with some of the most motivated

00:53:23.480 and dedicated people. Much like, uh, the military, you're out on patrol. You're doing lay-ins and

00:53:30.360 interdictions. The difference between a conventional law enforcement officer and a border patrol agent is

00:53:36.480 when they go out on a stop, you know, they're on the radio. Most of the time their backup knows

00:53:42.980 exactly where they are and they're just a matter of minutes away. Yeah. The border patrol agents are

00:53:47.080 out in the middle of nowhere. They're back at maybe half an hour away. And when they encounter

00:53:52.660 somebody, most of the time they're vastly outnumbered. So it is a, it is a very serious

00:53:57.380 and dangerous job, but it's one that calls to a certain amount of people. Yeah, no doubt. Within

00:54:02.580 the border patrol, you have two, actually three special operations teams. And so I was a member

00:54:09.240 of both teams before I became a desk jockey. But, uh, the first one is the border patrol search,

00:54:15.120 trauma, and rescue team. And these guys are specialists in, uh, rural and urban search and rescue.

00:54:20.740 You know, they have swift water rescue skills. They do high angle rescue. And, uh, most of them

00:54:25.400 are trained EMTs and paramedics. That team dedicates itself to being out there in the, in the, in the

00:54:31.460 worst possible areas and rescuing migrants and individuals that get into stress to try and keep

00:54:36.780 them from dying. Which is so, it's so fascinating that that, because nobody knows that. I mean, you,

00:54:42.760 you talked about some of the towers that we have out in the deserts that, that these, uh, immigrants

00:54:47.740 can, can call if they get into trouble. Yeah. I had no idea. So it's funny because everybody has a

00:54:54.420 cell phone now and we have those rescue beacons in areas where the signals are poor, but the smugglers

00:55:00.060 and the migrants alike, they know when the chips are down, who they, who they need to call. Yeah.

00:55:05.440 They call us. Right. So they, they know that we're out there trying to help them, trying to save

00:55:10.520 them. Uh, the, the number of rescues that take place every year would probably astound the average

00:55:15.620 person that hasn't looked into this, that are made by the border patrol, made by border

00:55:19.020 patrol agents. So when they get in a bad way, you know, they call nine one one and they have

00:55:23.740 us dispatched out there to, to rescue them. And we take EMTs and paramedics out there.

00:55:28.060 A lot of times we will life flight them to a, to a safe location. The smugglers will tell

00:55:32.360 the, uh, the migrants, if you get in trouble, call this number or they'll see the, uh, the

00:55:37.140 rescue beacon and they'll hit it and they'll wait because they know that we're going to show

00:55:40.140 up and we're going to bring them water and help them out. That boar star team is just

00:55:44.240 the very highest example of the links that, that we go to, to make sure that that's the

00:55:49.200 case. In addition to that, these guys are out there responding to hurricane relief efforts.

00:55:54.260 There are any natural disaster or significant event that takes place that requires that

00:55:59.060 level of resource. Those guys do, and they do it voluntarily. There's no extra pay. They

00:56:03.880 could go out on patrol in a green and white and, and do that job every day for the rest of

00:56:07.300 their lives. Or they could do boar star. They could train and go through all the things

00:56:12.140 that they need to go to, to be on that team. They do it because they want to do it because

00:56:15.480 they care. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The other team is the border patrol tactical unit. And that

00:56:18.980 is for all intents and purposes, our SWAT team. The difference is they do, uh, domestic and

00:56:26.980 abroad. So when I talked about going to Iraq, uh, most people don't know that the border

00:56:31.980 patrol was, was in Iraq embedded with, uh, elements of the military.

00:56:35.740 Yeah. Because when you were talking with me about some of your experiences, I was like,

00:56:38.600 wait, were you in the military before? Like I didn't, I couldn't put that quite together

00:56:41.620 because I didn't know there was that, that unit. Yep. Yeah. And so we would be the subject

00:56:46.260 matter experts that were embedded with the military unit. For example, I was up in a place

00:56:49.560 called Rabia on the Syrian border and we worked with the Iraqi border police. And the idea was

00:56:54.740 to get them to do border security missions for us. It helped to ensure that the insurgents

00:57:00.140 didn't come in to, to fight with our troops for the Americans. And for them, it was about

00:57:04.660 keeping, uh, uh, economic goods from leaving the country. And so both countries benefited,

00:57:11.220 but that's the type of work that the men and women in, in Vortec do. In addition to your

00:57:15.620 traditional serving warrants and taking down high value targets that are members of cartels,

00:57:20.120 you know, our rules of engagement are obviously different because we're a law enforcement

00:57:24.040 entity. So we're looking to arrest people and, uh, and, and bring them to justice.

00:57:27.940 It's not war. So it is a law enforcement mission, but you can see how it's, it's just a little bit

00:57:33.940 different. The kind of work that they're doing. Is that a, is that available to anyone? I mean,

00:57:38.980 obviously there's probably a qualification for that, but in schools that you have to attend,

00:57:43.380 but is that available to anybody who wants to participate?

00:57:46.340 So you joined the border patrol and I believe now you have to have two years

00:57:49.640 as a border patrol agent before you can apply to go to their selection course.

00:57:53.620 And so the selection course has some minimum physical standards. And then it's, uh, it's

00:57:58.320 about what you would anticipate a selection course being about, you know, sleep deprivations.

00:58:02.620 Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, uh, and once you have proven yourself and you've met the

00:58:08.360 basic requirements, well, then the training starts and then you start, uh, you start, and

00:58:13.380 it's, it's a very extensive period because there's specialties that, uh, that each, each person

00:58:16.940 will gravitate towards and, and you become a member of either the national team or the sector

00:58:22.380 teams. Border patrol divides the country up into sectors. And so is there seven or six?

00:58:28.080 Oh, what was I thinking? It's seven. Well, there's, there's nine on the Southwest border.

00:58:32.440 Okay. But if you can 20 total sectors, 20 total sectors, you also have the U S board

00:58:37.080 patrol Academy and you have SOG, the national special operations group. So if you are assigned

00:58:43.220 to a sector, you can be a member of the special operations detachment that is assigned to that

00:58:47.560 sector, for that sector. And so you'll do work predominantly within that sector. You can be

00:58:51.560 called out to do national level, uh, operations, but the folks that are assigned to SOG, uh,

00:58:57.380 headquarters, they're the ones that are going to be doing the, uh, the FID type missions,

00:59:01.140 the foreign internal defense, where you actually are going to these other countries and bedding

00:59:04.260 with the host nation forces, doing training, training and advisory missions. And then the,

00:59:08.500 uh, the kind of the on the job training.

00:59:09.980 Interesting. So do you do much with that anymore with what your role is? Yeah. I imagine. Cause

00:59:14.060 you were talking about being a desk jockey. So.

00:59:15.760 Yeah. Once you, uh, once you start putting stuff on your collar, the, uh, the, you know,

00:59:20.060 the having fun, it's a different kind of fun, but, uh, but you do miss those, uh, those days of

00:59:24.260 getting to do the traveling and working with that, with those type folks. It's a, you know,

00:59:28.060 I met some folks particularly down in Honduras and in Columbia that were just, you know, I still

00:59:32.960 stay in touch with them today. You know, they have a, you think we have a insurmountable task.

00:59:37.800 Imagine what they're up against.

00:59:39.520 Oh yeah.

00:59:39.940 Yeah. Honduras was a, uh, it was a transit point for, you know, you had cocaine coming

00:59:44.780 up from the Columbia area and the weapons, you know, the caches that were still around

00:59:49.360 there going back down to Columbia. So it was in everybody's interest to try and make sure

00:59:52.520 that that was, uh, under law and order. And they are just, uh, we say we're overwhelmed.

00:59:59.960 They, they are as well, but there are some really good people that are out there trying

01:00:03.420 to, trying to take the fight to the bad guys every single day. And you just kind of keep

01:00:07.820 that in mind. That's what you're a part of. It doesn't matter what country

01:00:09.800 that you're, that you're in on an international level, people that are in law enforcement that

01:00:13.940 are in the military, it's a brotherhood, it's a sisterhood, uh, no matter what. And then

01:00:18.260 there's good people, no matter what the uniform.

01:00:21.240 Yeah. You talk about going this, uh, I don't know. I'll, it's probably not the right term,

01:00:26.080 but senior executive leadership route. I don't know if that's the right term. Uh, is that

01:00:29.580 something you voluntarily walked into or were you tapped on the shoulder and said, Hey, you're,

01:00:33.640 you're coming this way or tell me a little bit about that process.

01:00:36.260 No, it's voluntary. It's, it's one of those things that I, that I sought out, you know,

01:00:39.600 it's, uh, you have men and women that, uh, they want to be border patrol agents. They

01:00:44.560 want to be ground pounders their, their career and they are the best, you know, and that's

01:00:48.260 a, that's a, that's a choice. And we need folks that do that. Sure. You also need folks

01:00:52.820 that go into the leadership roles. And so as you're, as you're looking to where you want

01:00:57.180 to advance, there's folks that want to be, uh, they want to be in charge of a station

01:01:00.520 or they'll want to be, uh, in command of a unit or they'll want to be at a sector level

01:01:05.560 or some that want to be the chief of the border patrol someday. You, you have to, whatever

01:01:09.980 your aspirations or your goals are, you work towards that by being mobile, willing to move

01:01:15.280 around and go to these areas that are important to give you the experience that you need to

01:01:18.820 be able to do that job. And so in all of government, you have the, the GS employees and you'll hear

01:01:25.280 the, the GS one through 15 above that you have the senior executive service. And those are

01:01:31.240 the ones that are the continuity between the government workforce and the political appointees

01:01:37.200 that come in with each administration. Sure. That is the group of people that lead our

01:01:42.540 organizations. That is the group of people that lead, uh, the border patrol and CBP until

01:01:48.340 you get to the political appointee positions, which for example, the, the commissioner of CBP

01:01:52.440 is a, is a politically appointed position. That person that comes in has to rely on the subject

01:01:57.480 matter expertise of the men and women, particularly in that senior leadership group. That's why you

01:02:02.180 have that senior executive service. Right. And, and you as a, as a sector chief are in that

01:02:08.020 leadership capacity. So it depends on the sector that you're talking about. Okay. There are,

01:02:13.580 there are the larger sectors. You will have a senior executive, uh, service appointee or at the

01:02:19.300 smaller sectors, you'll have a GS 15. Okay. In this case, I'm a GS 15. Yeah. Makes sense.

01:02:23.300 So what are your aspirations? I, I'm enjoying the ride. I'm absolutely, uh, you know,

01:02:29.620 everything that I get a chance to do is an adventure. I would like to keep gaining new

01:02:33.500 experience. And if I can make a contribution and keep promoting, of course, I'm interested in doing

01:02:37.400 that, but I can tell you if I, if I retired as the chief of Holton sector in Maine, I would be very

01:02:42.960 happy with that as well. Awesome. Uh, I imagine there's pros and cons to each path, right? Uh,

01:02:49.680 what made you decide to go that route? The leadership route? Correct. Well, I think there's

01:02:56.600 two different kinds of individuals that you can learn from. You learn from the good examples,

01:03:00.240 the ones that become the mentors, the ones that become, uh, the, the role models for you. You also

01:03:05.560 see people that are not the best role models, not the best examples. And you say, whatever I do when I

01:03:12.200 get in that position, I'm not going to do that. Well, I've seen both. I've experienced both. And

01:03:17.960 at the end of the day, if I want to complain about it, then I'd better be able to step up and try and

01:03:24.720 make a difference. If I'm not going to step up and take on those roles and try and do the best I can

01:03:30.500 according to my capabilities for the organization, then I really shouldn't complain about those who

01:03:34.700 do. Right. And so from my perspective, if, if I love this organization, I owe it to it to give it my

01:03:42.600 all. I owe it to it to do everything I think I'm capable of to leave it better than I found it.

01:03:46.740 And so that's what I'm setting about doing. It's not about a personal goal of how many stars I can

01:03:51.440 put on my collar. It's, I want to walk away thinking that I left it better than I found it

01:03:56.540 because that's the legacy that I'm going to be a part of. That is, uh, the, the brotherhood and

01:04:02.000 the sisterhood that I'm always going to be a part of. I want to look back on that with pride and I

01:04:06.520 want to look back and said, I did right by it. Right. That's what my driving force is.

01:04:10.540 I like that. You, you use the word or, or, or term complaining, right? And, and in the limited

01:04:15.900 amount that I know you, you don't seem to be a complainer. So I'm not going to use that word,

01:04:19.260 but what are some of the, the red flags or some areas of improvement that you have recognized and

01:04:26.780 feel like you have an obligation to work towards correcting?

01:04:30.800 How we take care of our people. You know, when I came in in the nineties,

01:04:34.900 the board patrol was a much different organization. And, uh, there was a lot, uh, it was a lot

01:04:39.920 rougher on people coming in. There was not the, uh, for example, there was not the family network.

01:04:45.080 So you can imagine moving from a little town in Oklahoma to California. I was scared to death. I

01:04:50.620 was 21 years old. I didn't know if I could afford to live there. And there was virtually no

01:04:55.800 resources out there to help me and my family. I had a newborn, a newborn child, wife and I had

01:05:01.160 just been married for less than a year and, uh, and relocated to this place where I had no family

01:05:05.540 network. She had no family network. There was nothing really in place from the board patrol to

01:05:11.040 help with that. That's one of those areas where if we truly consider ourselves to be a family,

01:05:16.520 if we truly consider ourselves to be a brotherhood and a sisterhood, well, we got to correct that.

01:05:20.720 And those are some things that not just me by any stretch, but those of us that have come up

01:05:24.480 through that time, we see that as a, as a gap, a capability gap that we need to fill for this

01:05:28.780 organization, how we take care of one another that goes to retention, that goes to morale,

01:05:34.400 that goes to performance. That is one of the areas that we've been able to make the biggest strides

01:05:38.820 when it comes to, uh, what this agency is the actual Academy itself. One of my closest friends

01:05:44.560 is the chief of the U S board patrol Academy, Dan Harris. He's made leaps in when a new agent

01:05:52.160 trainee comes in from the moment they hit the ground. They are indoctrinated into what they

01:05:58.000 are a part of. They are, they are indoctrinated into this is your history. This is your legacy.

01:06:03.040 Why? Because it is so very important for you to safeguard that that should matter to you.

01:06:07.760 And every decision you make should be around doing honor to it. And the brothers and sisters

01:06:13.620 that you work beside every single day, having that instilled in you, that esprit de corps,

01:06:17.220 that's another area where we can always do better. Sure. So those are a couple of examples.

01:06:22.020 Yeah. I like that. Well, we're winding down on time. I want to ask you a couple of questions as

01:06:26.100 we do. One I prepared you for is what does it mean to be a man?

01:06:31.940 I think it means being there. I think it's, it's, it's knowing what your responsibility is

01:06:37.060 and doing it. I think whether it's as a father, whether it's as a husband,

01:06:43.860 whether it is as a career professional, it is doing the right thing and being there.

01:06:51.220 I, you know, you, it doesn't matter if you're a divorced father. It doesn't matter if, uh,

01:06:55.780 if you're deployed away, you can still be there. You can still be in the lives of those who matter

01:07:02.820 to you and let them know that you care and let them know that, that you're going to do the right

01:07:08.040 thing. You have relationships that span the personal and professional and everybody that touches your

01:07:13.780 life. You owe it to them to make sure they know that's a model that you live by. I'm going to be

01:07:19.140 there. That to me is what it means to be a man. It's powerful. All right. Well, how do we connect

01:07:23.320 with you? I know that you guys are, are, are hiring. You're looking for great qualified people.

01:07:28.800 So tell us how we can connect with you, learn more, and then where to go if somebody's interested

01:07:32.340 in looking at a job within border patrol. So obviously border patrol is recruiting right now. So we

01:07:37.100 have up here the, you can go to the order of man.com slash border patrol. You can also go to

01:07:41.860 usajobs.gov. You can go to cbp.gov and there are links to take you to the application process as

01:07:48.440 well. Also, if you want to stay in touch with what's going on in the border patrol, in particular

01:07:53.680 in the state of Maine, I have a Twitter and Instagram account, jowensusbp. We're constantly

01:07:59.800 putting out there the, the, the things that the men and women are doing, particularly in this great

01:08:03.440 state and to help stay educated on what's going on around the country, but also from a recruiting

01:08:07.900 aspect as well. You can reach out to us through any one of those routes and we'll be happy to help

01:08:12.260 you. Excellent. Well, we'll sync everything up. Obviously, if the guys are watching on YouTube,

01:08:15.520 they can see this. If you're not, again, it's order of man.com slash border patrol. Or if you

01:08:20.480 have questions I've actually had based on spending a couple of days with you guys a couple of months

01:08:25.860 ago or whatever it was, I had quite a few people reach out and ask how to connect. So if you don't,

01:08:30.720 don't remember this, just shoot me an email, shoot me a message. I'll get you guys synced up,

01:08:34.000 but I just want to let you know, I appreciate you. I appreciate your service to this country. And

01:08:37.640 of course, the opportunity to come spend a couple of days with you and help clarify some things.

01:08:42.560 We got out on the range, we got out on the water, the slash. I mean, we saw it all. I think we saw a

01:08:47.960 lot. And you did well on the range. Don't put that out for your listeners as well. Yeah. I appreciate

01:08:51.340 that. I'm a little, I'm a little rusty with the pistols. I know where I, where I need to improve,

01:08:55.680 but it was good to be out there with you guys. And I also want to say is obviously this is order of

01:09:00.940 man. We're talking to men mostly, but you're not just hiring men. You're looking for women too.

01:09:05.520 And I want to make sure we clarify that as well. We right now, I think only have about 5%

01:09:09.240 women in the board patrol. That's a number we'd obviously like to see, like to see climb.

01:09:14.340 We have some great examples, some great role models for, for women out there that,

01:09:18.240 that wear this uniform every day and do the job side by side with men.

01:09:21.220 Right on. Well, I appreciate you. And thanks for coming on chief. Appreciate it.

01:09:24.820 Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

01:09:25.540 Gents. There you go. My conversation with Jason Owens, chief patrol agent of the Holton

01:09:32.340 sector. I hope you enjoyed that one. I hope it cleared up some misconceptions because I think

01:09:36.000 there's a lot. In fact, I went into, uh, the experience that I had several, well, I guess

01:09:40.680 it was about a month and a half, maybe two months ago, uh, with, with their team. Uh, and I,

01:09:45.680 I had some misconceptions and so to be able to spend a couple of days with them. And then of course,

01:09:50.040 be able to have this conversation, cleared that up for me. And of course, it's very valuable that we know,

01:09:54.620 and we are armed with the right information. Uh, there's a lot of misinformation spread and a lot

01:09:59.520 of rumors and a lot of assumptions that are made. And if we really want to solve some of the biggest

01:10:04.620 problems that we have within our communities and businesses, families, of course, the nation, uh,

01:10:09.660 then I think the first step is to ensuring that we have accurate information. And that's why I wanted

01:10:14.580 to get this one to you today. Jason obviously is a very, very impressive individual. Uh, he's doing

01:10:19.840 good work as well as his team. And so I was honored to be able to sit down with him and have this

01:10:23.680 conversation face-to-face and again, spend a couple of days with them, uh, several months ago.

01:10:27.820 So if you are interested in the work that border patrol does, then make sure you head over and

01:10:33.260 connect with Jason on Instagram. Uh, he gave you the links and everything else. Make sure that you,

01:10:38.000 uh, check that out. Um, also, if you want to see what job opportunities are available,

01:10:43.500 uh, you can also go to order of man.com slash border patrol, order of man.com slash border patrol.

01:10:49.600 We're not necessarily affiliated in any way. That would just be a quick and easy way for, uh,

01:10:53.740 for everybody to remember the, uh, the site to see if you're interested in, uh, careers that border

01:10:59.140 patrol offers. But again, that's order of man.com slash border patrol. All right, guys, that's all

01:11:03.980 I've got for you today. We'll be back again tomorrow for the ask me anything. And of course,

01:11:07.380 Friday for our Friday field notes, and then back to it next week with our interviews. Uh, glad you're

01:11:11.620 here. Glad you're tuned in. As I said, when I started this, we need more men in this fight and it

01:11:15.180 would be more honored to stand with you. All right, guys, go out there, take action, become the man

01:11:19.300 you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:11:24.400 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:11:29.040 at order of man.com.

Securing Our Nation's Borders ｜ JASON OWENS

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