Order of Man - Seeking Support from Your Tribe, Dealing with Insecurities, and Getting Over a Breakup

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.940 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.340 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.000 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.480 you can call yourself a man. Sean, another episode of Ask Me Anything. How you doing, sir?

00:00:28.640 It is. I'm doing well. How are you? Good. I'm digging the hat. Thanks. It's like a Hawaiian

00:00:37.200 version. What's the logo, though? It's a Hawaiian flag, but it's got a little shaka in the corner

00:00:44.620 of it. Got it. It's some golf. I never golf. Mauna Alani. We went to Mauna Alani. Where

00:00:52.460 were we? Big Island, I think, last year. Got it. I didn't have any clothes when we went. I didn't

00:01:00.880 have any golf clothes. I got invited to go. I literally bought shoes and a shirt and a hat

00:01:08.440 when I was there because I didn't have anything but board shorts. That's funny. That's funny.

00:01:14.380 Well, I was going to tease you that you're the poser guy that buys all the gear, but he's never

00:01:19.840 gone. It sounds like it was just minimal clothes. I'm assuming you didn't buy $5,000 clubs for your

00:01:29.060 Hawaii trip. No, no, no. I like to golf. Like I said, it's just one of those things that if someone

00:01:35.260 asked me to go, I'll go and I enjoy it, but I'm not going to. There's a lot of other things I'd

00:01:40.040 rather do with four hours of my day. Yeah. Dude, I wish I could say the same thing. What

00:01:48.760 usually happens is it sounds like it'll be fun. I golf and then I just get pissed. I'm just angry

00:01:54.360 by the time I'm done. I'm just so bad and it's frustrating because it seems like it should be easy

00:02:01.500 and I, you know, but not enough to actually change it. You know what I mean? But I'll fall into

00:02:07.540 a common pitfall of saying yes to playing some rounds and then I end up regretting it because

00:02:12.120 I, I suck so bad. So I don't know. I should probably get trained up. I just accept it and

00:02:18.820 bring extra balls, but buy a box or something before we go out. So I'm not stressed on having

00:02:26.100 no balls to hit. Yeah. Running out midway, uh, Kyavi, my son and I, we played in, um, out in

00:02:34.540 Cancun and midway. We're both playing really bad. Uh, he's actually a pretty good golfer,

00:02:40.640 but, but for whatever, he's having a kind of an off day. Everything's just flying into

00:02:45.620 the woods, into the jungle. We're losing balls left and right. And, um, we get to a point

00:02:50.960 where halfway through and we're both out, but we see some balls down in the water, but it's

00:02:58.120 where these alligators are. Oh, geez. Small alligators. So we're over there like trying

00:03:04.500 to get to them without getting chased by this alligator because one club for balls, one club

00:03:09.720 for gators. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, uh, good times, man. All right. Well, we're going to

00:03:15.300 field questions from the foundry. Uh, pretty much that means from the iron council, uh, for

00:03:20.980 you guys that don't know the iron councils are exclusive brotherhood and that's part of the

00:03:25.840 order of man, uh, to learn more, go to order of man.com slash iron council. Uh, and we'll

00:03:31.260 just get right into this. And we have quite a bit of questions from noobs, from the new

00:03:35.140 guys, the FNGs within the foundry, uh, what we call the forge guys. So, uh, Reagan Huffner

00:03:41.800 thoughts on overcoming the shame cycle that you can experience when struggling with a habit

00:03:47.220 you want to kick or a limiting belief you hold. For example, if I don't hit some tactics

00:03:52.820 for the day or the week, I seem to be overwhelmed by shame or disappointment, which in turn leads

00:03:58.540 to even less productive days. I appreciate the work that you and Ryan are doing and Sean

00:04:05.620 will throw you on. He didn't know that you're going to be on when he asked that question.

00:04:08.420 So the overcoming the shame cycle when struggling of changing a habit. Yeah. I'm just trying to

00:04:17.920 think of the way to word it. I, for me, it's, it's changing it from shame to, I think we're

00:04:25.620 all, if you're, especially if you want to perform and all the top performers I know are the hardest

00:04:31.520 on themselves and anyone else will ever be on them. So I think that's a normal thing, first

00:04:36.540 of all. So if you're feeling that way, I think it's actually healthy, but I also think it's important

00:04:41.900 that you reframe it in the wording that you use from shame to, I think disappointment's okay. But

00:04:48.860 you know, it's I always liked the word challenges. I actually got that from Tom Hopkins. When I first

00:04:59.820 started in my financial service career, I, I was told I should go to sales, you know, workshops and

00:05:08.080 things like that. And Tom Hopkins was the big one that was recommended to me. Um, and, uh, I was

00:05:14.560 terrible talking to people say, I mean, when I thought of sales, I just, it was, that was like

00:05:19.000 a bad word to me, but in his workshops and in his books, he has this thing, it's good words, bad words.

00:05:25.520 And so, um, one of his things in those good words, bad words that always stuck with me that when I saw

00:05:31.400 God, I, uh, like instantly just started using was a bad word we all use as problems. And that's the

00:05:40.220 same thing. Shame, disappointment, problems. I have shortcomings, whatever you want to call it

00:05:46.000 and his healthy word or his good word that he replaces it with is challenges or challenge. And so

00:05:53.480 any one of those bad words, I just turn into challenge. So what's the challenge I had today,

00:05:58.160 right? Not the, you know, what makes me shameful today? What am I disappointed with in myself

00:06:03.500 today? What was the challenge I had? Why did I not achieve what I wanted to? And then how can I grow

00:06:10.260 from that and do better tomorrow? So it's just the reframing of it from shameful, disappointed,

00:06:17.340 feeling bad or down on yourself to just finding ways that you can get better.

00:06:22.660 I, I like that. Ironically enough, I was at church and I saw this, this guy, kind of a friend of mine,

00:06:29.760 his name's Drew and I hadn't seen him at the gym for a while. Right. And so it was, it was at church

00:06:35.520 and I say, Drew, dude, what's up, what's going on, man? Like you haven't seen you at a gym for a while.

00:06:40.060 You know, you're slacking. And there was a guy standing by us and he goes, oh, he, he didn't come to

00:06:45.920 church to get shamed. And I go, well, it's only shaming if he doesn't change. Right. Like if he

00:06:54.680 takes my, my advice and gets back to the gym, then what was it? Well, maybe it was motivation. Maybe

00:06:59.960 it was a accountability. Maybe it was something else. It's only shaming if we don't do anything

00:07:04.060 about it. Right. And I've had this conversation, even with Asia, a couple of times about, you know,

00:07:09.940 fitness and our bodies and whatever. It's like, oh, beat ourselves up. But it's like,

00:07:14.560 well, if it, if it draws or if it causes action, then necessarily, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

00:07:22.460 And I think it goes along with what you're saying, Sean, is like using the right word in, in line with

00:07:28.640 that same idea. I think it's also about what we're saying about ourselves. Right. Like when I read

00:07:33.680 Reagan's question, right. Overcoming the shame cycle, experiencing, he gets limiting to beliefs.

00:07:39.020 It reduces his ability to perform. He has less productive days. Like, are you saying, Hey man,

00:07:44.660 I messed up. I dropped the ball back on the path. Or is the language you're using is I'm an idiot.

00:07:50.460 I can never do it. And, and you're, you're following it to a conclusion of who you are as a

00:07:56.100 person, or are you shaming or being disappointed in the fact that you're of your actions. And those

00:08:03.320 are two different things. And I think it's the same thing about, you know, people that are overweight,

00:08:07.920 there's a big difference. And I've heard this somewhere. I don't know where I stole it from,

00:08:11.760 but you know, you have fat to work on, or I am fat. Those are two different ways of saying it.

00:08:18.600 And I think, and, and, and, and I'm, I'm relating to you Reagan, because this is what I do.

00:08:24.080 When I make a mistake, I'm not going, Hey, Kip, that action was a poor action. You know,

00:08:28.360 get back on the path. That's not my default. My defaults. You're an idiot.

00:08:32.360 Me too. I'm attacking myself by default. So I'm highly relating to what you're saying.

00:08:41.220 We're just saying there's value in pausing and going, no, no, no, that's not true. That's not

00:08:46.540 actually logically true. And I'm actually lying to myself when I say that that's not necessarily

00:08:52.600 true. I'm not an idiot. Did I make a mistake? Yes. I'd made a mistake. And now being the person

00:08:58.880 that I want to be and with the ideal person or the ideal version of myself, how would they handle

00:09:03.920 the situation? They get back on the horse, they course correct and make some adjustments.

00:09:08.880 So, so don't, don't make the conclusion about you when you fail to act on tactics that, you know,

00:09:16.260 you should, it, it just means that you failed on some tactics, you know, and maybe a good way of

00:09:20.960 looking at another way of saying the same thing that we're already saying is, you know, Jocko's good

00:09:24.940 video. I think it's profound. You make a mistake. Good. Now I have an opportunity to learn.

00:09:31.460 It's so good. And, you know, you also have to celebrate your wins. That's another thing I'd say

00:09:36.980 is that too many of us overlook all the good stuff that we do, all of the things we're achieving

00:09:43.960 throughout the day for lack of the things that we don't. And, you know, he's also talking about

00:09:50.800 the things that we all struggle with and everybody's different, right? Maybe for some it's

00:09:56.600 alcohol and drugs, some it's pornography, some it's just laziness, some it's lethargy, some it's,

00:10:02.500 you know, not moving their body, whatever. Some it's their food, right. And their food habits,

00:10:07.440 but because we have those different weaknesses, what it also means is there's some strengths that

00:10:14.020 we have, some things we're good at, some things that come naturally. And so a lot of times we're getting

00:10:18.700 things done that are productive, that are useful for us in our lives, but we don't necessarily look

00:10:25.120 at those as achieving or doing much because they come easy to us. And then we focus on the constant

00:10:32.740 things that, you know, for me, like, yeah, exactly. And I also like, my belief is, is that Satan's out

00:10:41.400 there and he's working on me every single day and he knows my weaknesses and he knows where I lack,

00:10:46.940 where I fall. Um, and that's the stuff he's going to keep putting in front of me to get me to fall.

00:10:53.360 And so understanding that it helps me, you know, to, to give myself a little bit of, uh, uh, uh,

00:11:03.980 what's the word I'm looking for? Grace, grace. Yes. You know, give myself a little grace and, um,

00:11:10.780 and then, and realize I am getting stuff done and I'm, I'm going to continue to work on that

00:11:16.300 and then just fall less and less often. Right. It's like you stub your toe on the same curb every

00:11:21.960 day, you know, walking into work. It's eventually you're, you're going to like start to lift your

00:11:26.800 foot a little higher each time and do it less and less. Yeah. You know, I don't want to beat up the

00:11:34.600 question too much, but I just want to make sure Reagan, you feel like you, you walk away with this

00:11:39.180 question with some tangible things, right. For you, you, you to consider. And so the last thing that

00:11:45.780 comes to mind is I, I honestly believe that who we are is, is our creation. I think we, we can,

00:11:57.640 we can re reinvent ourselves. So anybody listening that thinks that like, you know, they failed too

00:12:03.920 many times they they've screwed up too many times, you know, they're on their, I don't know,

00:12:09.060 third marriage and now it's not looking good. And here they are having the internal dialogue of

00:12:14.220 see, it's true. You know, you are broken and no one does want you and you can't overcome,

00:12:21.760 you know, who you think you are as an individual. I would like you guys to consider the idea that,

00:12:28.460 that this isn't true, right. Today I can invent myself today, this very moment.

00:12:35.200 I, and I really do believe that regardless of what person, what mistakes we've made yesterday.

00:12:40.460 Now, do we still have to pay the repercussions of our actions in some cases? Yeah, for sure. There's no,

00:12:45.980 there's no bypassing the consequences of one's actions, but who you are as a man doesn't have to be.

00:12:54.740 And you can choose and recreate that every single day, moment after moment. And, and so, and I know

00:13:01.500 that's hard to, to wrap our heads around Reagan, but like, you know, and maybe, maybe your segment

00:13:06.820 is a day, right? Maybe it's like, Hey, you're sucking it today. Then you know what? Embrace the

00:13:11.120 suck today, but tomorrow, tomorrow's a new day and show up powerfully tomorrow and be the man who you

00:13:18.340 need to be tomorrow and, and just keep, keep, keep at it. I believe that's possible and through reps

00:13:25.980 and surrender yourself around the right individuals and learning from the opportunities too. That's the

00:13:31.100 other thing. Like I, um, what was the, my daughter got in trouble at school and kind of like a big in

00:13:39.480 trouble. And, and it, and it was funny because she, she was really distraught about it and really

00:13:47.640 upset. And I'm like, babe, like that's, this is okay. As long as you figure out what it is that you

00:13:54.620 need to learn, then it's okay, but it's not okay. If you don't learn now, you've just wasted the

00:14:02.260 suffering, the mistake and everything else. So if you're going to make a mistake, awesome. That's great,

00:14:06.960 but at least learn from it. And now it was an opportunity for growth, but that's only made

00:14:12.220 possible. If we choose to learn and, and evolve from it, if we don't, then it, then it is wasted.

00:14:18.540 And to be frank, maybe we should feel a little bit ashamed about it because, you know, we're making

00:14:24.080 mistakes without the, the desire outcome or the desire to, to grow and change.

00:14:28.500 Hmm. One more quick, tangible, um, compared to where you were, uh, take a look at, take a step

00:14:38.520 back and say, okay, this challenge I'm having that I'm consistently having, am I at least getting

00:14:43.460 better? Am I getting better than I was a year ago, two years ago? You don't necessarily have to do it

00:14:48.200 quarter to quarter. Cause I don't know about you, Kip for me, like each quarter I can feel like I'm

00:14:51.920 growing, but I can't, there's not like a real gap in a quarter or even in a year sometimes. But if I go,

00:14:58.500 a couple of years, three years, five years, I can be completely different from them. And so you have

00:15:03.940 to, you have to gauge that. And, and again, give yourself the grace. If you are growing that,

00:15:09.540 Hey, you're on the right track. You're working on that. You're making, um, not just the effort,

00:15:13.980 but you're, you're, you're actually seeing results that you, that you're not going to see in the,

00:15:19.520 in the short term. Yeah. I like it. All right. Derek Duff, not a question, but a best practice

00:15:26.120 that has been impactful for bringing my wife closer to me over the last 30 days. I learned

00:15:32.140 this from the battle team lead, uh, John McKenzie on battle team triumph that, that I think both the

00:15:38.320 IC and your listeners could potentially learn from. All right. So Derek's dropping some knowledge.

00:15:42.280 We'll leave some thoughts. If we have any, if your spouse is a words of affirmation partner from the

00:15:48.060 five language, five love languages, the book, buy some small, small cards and write notes about why

00:15:53.280 you love and appreciate them, hide them around the house for her to find it later. This has been a

00:15:58.100 wonderful way for me to express my love to my wife and a nice surprise for her when she stumbles upon

00:16:03.460 them. Yeah. That's some good stuff, man. Well, and I think like in the spirit of this, um, I remember

00:16:10.920 at one point and I should probably find that book, but I actually bought a book called random, I at random

00:16:17.540 acts of kindness. So I could not, so I could not have random acts of kindness, but have them perceived

00:16:26.060 as such. And, and I don't, and I think it's silly because like, I mean, I think as guys, we feel like

00:16:32.440 we're cheating or it's not as sincere. That's not how it works, right? Anything that's important to me

00:16:37.900 is on my calendar. So then the question then is if I pull up that calendar, how much family stuff is on

00:16:43.920 it? Just because I pull my cat, my family on the calendar doesn't mean they're not important.

00:16:48.880 Just, just like reading a book and coming up with some tactics in regards to show up,

00:16:53.140 showing up powerfully. Have you done anything like that before Sean, like, uh, like this guy?

00:16:59.560 Yeah, all the time. It's, uh, I like what you were talking about the planned random acts,

00:17:03.860 but I think in tune with what he's talking about, just knowing your wife's love language.

00:17:11.080 I mean, because if, if there's different ones, that's, I love that he did it. Um, not, not the

00:17:19.980 tactic of necessarily like hiding the things. I'm just, what I love is that he knows what it is

00:17:25.640 and he's doing something about it. So for my wife, it's, it's, I, I rub her feet all the time,

00:17:31.120 like almost every night, you know, maybe every other night, but most nights I'll rub her feet or

00:17:36.020 legs. It's just something. And if I do it, not begrudgingly, that's what she loves, you know?

00:17:42.100 But if she's like, Hey, can you ruin my feet? And I'm tired. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's, I mean,

00:17:47.240 might as well, like I just ruined it. Right. And so I have to remind myself of that and, um, and,

00:17:53.220 and do it. And, and it makes all the difference in the world.

00:17:56.760 Yeah. And that's a good point, Sean. It's most people don't know. Yep. Most people have no idea.

00:18:06.140 And those, and those that are you listening, you're like, yeah, I know you're probably wrong

00:18:10.960 or they know, and they don't do it anyways. Like they know they just are lazy about it or for

00:18:17.800 whatever reason they don't, I think most don't most don't. And if you guys are, if you, if you're

00:18:24.080 like, have no idea what we're talking about. So there's a book, the five love languages,

00:18:27.240 you can hop online. You should read the book period and get the survey. And it's a downloadable

00:18:35.160 PDF. I think it is. And give it to your spouse and say, Hey, honey, will you fill this out?

00:18:40.660 You know, and, and make sure that you understand. And some of the love languages, that's the other

00:18:44.660 thing that people don't realize is there'll be like, Oh, well, uh, I think it's this, well,

00:18:49.120 you might be right. But, but like one point below that is another love language.

00:18:54.080 Like they might have three in that same category. And so you might be addressing the one of the

00:18:59.080 three, but it doesn't mean much to them, right? Because you're still dropping the ball. So if

00:19:04.040 you don't know, just have them complete the PDF little survey thing, read the book, huge value

00:19:09.980 add, huge value add. Okay. Karen Gill, how do you get to, uh, how do you get support and feedback

00:19:18.060 from your tribe of men on deep private issues in your relationship while respecting the privacy

00:19:22.760 of your girlfriend and your wife? I'm not exposing her personal stuff without exposing her personal

00:19:29.340 stuff, especially when, when said girlfriend and wife doesn't want anyone to know about those

00:19:33.860 private issues. But the problem is that those private issues have a huge impact on your own

00:19:38.720 life. And sometimes even your mental health asking for a friend, of course, and in the spirit

00:19:44.140 of the question, I can't expand on the question much more than that. I think that goes, I think that

00:19:49.600 goes, that's given. We, we, we caught the gist that you're completely beating around the bush

00:19:54.360 in regards to the question. It's a great question though. What say you, Sean, what say you?

00:20:00.180 I mean, I'll be totally honest. I don't, there is, there are one or two men I have in my life

00:20:06.520 that I go to with those things that are father figures. Um, you know, if it's not my own dad

00:20:14.780 and, um, you know, it, and which I've gone to a few times, and then I have a guy who's like a second

00:20:22.160 father to me. And those two are the, the two that I've gone to with most of those things.

00:20:28.380 And so, you know, in, in, and without it breaking her confidence because their father figures to

00:20:37.560 her too. And so it, the thing is like, you have to have someone to go to, but I actually don't

00:20:43.600 think it's healthy to go to your, to the guys with, yeah. Or to your circle of friends, or even

00:20:51.600 if it's guys that push you and you help each other, but there's still more of your peers.

00:20:57.520 I honestly, I don't think that's healthy. Um, and it's, and you have to be careful with

00:21:03.600 how good your peers are, you know, because you start having those conversations in the wrong

00:21:08.560 groups and that goes South real fast, you know, whether with good intention or not. And so I think

00:21:15.320 it's a tricky line to walk. What do you think as I say that? Well, no, well, I agree.

00:21:21.600 Cause you could totally disagree with me. I I'm having a feeling that some guys might disagree.

00:21:26.680 No, I, I, how's this? I think you need someone to talk to. Yes. So if you don't have that someone,

00:21:32.820 and I think it goes, maybe, maybe I'll say it a different way. Don't go asking Bob about marriage

00:21:39.480 help when Bob, Bob's marriage sucks. Right. So just be mindful of who you're getting advice from.

00:21:45.940 Um, and be careful that you're not looking for to collude and get validation from other people

00:21:52.240 to help justify your story because that that's what we mostly do. Right. The reality of it is,

00:21:59.140 is if I'm upset with my wife, the natural human instinct, Sean is for me to reach out to you

00:22:04.900 and talk about it. So you, so I feel validated about the way I feel. And then I'm just colluding

00:22:11.660 with you and I'm not addressing the issue. I'm not addressing how I'm showing up in the

00:22:16.260 relationship. I just feel better because Sean's agreeing with me and most people will agree with

00:22:21.120 you. Why? Because most people are agreeable and they don't want to shock, rock the boat and they

00:22:25.640 don't want to go, well, you're an idiot and you shouldn't be saying that no one's going to tell you

00:22:29.880 that most people won't. So the reality of it is, is most people in your tribe are just going to hear

00:22:34.960 you and go, Oh yeah. What was you? Yeah, man, that sucks. And yeah. And then you're going to

00:22:40.580 feel better. And then you think that, that it helped you. And in reality, it really didn't help

00:22:44.640 you at all. That's why I said, you have to be careful. You got to talk to the right people.

00:22:50.400 Here's another thought though. And I just want, you know, Karen, I'm not like this, this we're,

00:22:56.060 we're not projecting on you. So like relax or your wife or your girlfriend or whatever.

00:23:00.900 Um, I feel that if I'm not showing up very well in the marriage and I'm overly like, Hey, Asia,

00:23:12.440 don't share this with anybody. I don't want you to tell your family or whatever. Like,

00:23:17.120 am I really owning whatever it is that of how I'm showing up in the, like, part of me feels

00:23:25.060 that's not addressing the issue. Do you get what I'm saying? Like if I had, I mean, if I had an

00:23:33.540 issue, I'm trying to, I'm trying to come over the example. I don't know. Maybe it depends on the

00:23:39.080 issue. Part of me feels that if I'm really owning something on my side of the fence and around how I'm

00:23:46.860 showing up as a husband, I wouldn't be hiding and going, well, don't tell anybody. I'd be like,

00:23:52.620 no, you know what? I've made a mistake. This is what the mistake is. And, and I, it's out there

00:23:58.340 and I'm kind of being really transparent and authentic about it. Cause I'm owning it

00:24:03.140 and that's not who I am anymore. And I'm working on it. But now they say that maybe there are some

00:24:09.580 key areas. Ah, I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe not. I don't know. Any thoughts?

00:24:16.440 No, I, I, I, it's careful. Yeah. Careful. Now what's let's, let's talk about his specific issue.

00:24:26.980 Cause we, we actually didn't address his exact question. So you have a couple of father figures

00:24:31.320 that you would go to for feedback, but your wife goes, Hey, Sean, but I don't want you to tell any

00:24:36.480 of those guys. Do you say like, I need to get some feedback and some advice on this. I'm going to do it

00:24:43.600 anyway. I've done it. Yeah. It doesn't mean that I, well, here's the thing too. I've never gone back

00:24:48.980 and been like, Hey, you know, rich gave me this advice. Rich told me that I didn't do that. And

00:24:55.320 the nice thing is that's why it's important to that. It's the right people, because you have to

00:25:00.880 have confidence in them. And it's not, here's the thing when, when I, and I've done it a couple of

00:25:08.400 times. Um, and it wasn't to, for that validation, like you were talking about, it's just, honestly,

00:25:17.180 I had no one else to go to. And I knew I needed to go to somebody. Um, and without doing what I would,

00:25:27.360 um, without, um, asking someone with more experience than I had, you know, for those things.

00:25:34.960 What if your wife said, what if your wife said, Sean, please don't, please don't go to those

00:25:40.100 individuals for advice. That's what I'm saying. She's it's that's happened a couple of times.

00:25:45.720 Yeah. And, and I did still, um, just cause cause, cause she didn't want them to know or whatever,

00:25:52.240 but it's, you know, same thing. Like if, if you're, you know, if you have a child and the child

00:25:59.320 says, you know, Hey, don't tell mom and dad. Right. Um, I mean, that's because they don't

00:26:07.160 want to get in trouble or they feel like that shame we were talking about earlier. Yeah.

00:26:11.560 But usually that also means that that's a, that's an area that needs fixing. And maybe mom and dad

00:26:19.260 are the only ones that can give you the right advice to fix it. So, you know, it's, um, you know,

00:26:27.660 there's been other, uh, but there's been way more times that I didn't go to them with things,

00:26:31.380 but they were less major if they were, if they were, if they were important enough. Um, I think

00:26:38.060 I've, I've still done it a couple of times. Yeah. I think I would as well with the right

00:26:44.860 individuals. I think I'd be like, it doesn't matter. Like I, we got to address this and I need

00:26:49.100 help. Yeah. And it just has to be rooted in the greater, what, what the greater good,

00:26:55.920 not necessarily in, in getting affirmations and someone just to collude with and complain

00:27:01.920 and whatever, that's, that's going to be disastrous. You don't want to do that. And

00:27:05.400 you probably shouldn't be doing that period, regardless of whether she asked you not to

00:27:09.620 tell them. No, it's all outcome driven, all of it outcome driven with people that do care

00:27:15.920 about you. And that'll put you in check. Kind of like you said, it's, it's the reason I called

00:27:20.000 him as I knew he would, he'd be straight with me. He'd be real. And he would tell me if I was off in

00:27:27.480 my thinking. And so I knew it wasn't going to be like a, it's going to be okay. Or go get them or

00:27:33.780 yeah, you know, she's wrong. It, it, I knew it wasn't going to be any of that. It was going to be,

00:27:39.100 you know what, you're in line or you're not. And you know, if you are in line, you might also want

00:27:45.560 to try this. And if you're not like, here's what you should do. And so again, you have to have that

00:27:52.940 confidence. Yeah. Brendan Bagden, I've read extreme ownership and I follow the book, a follow up book

00:28:02.440 is on my list and the follow-up book is on my list, but what are some leadership courses or programs

00:28:08.580 that you would recommend? How are the course sections here in the IC coming along? I can kind

00:28:13.640 answer that a little bit and I presume leadership will be among them. I like Maxwell's John Maxwell

00:28:19.700 has his, his 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. And, uh, he actually, I don't know about this book.

00:28:27.740 All right. This podcast now officially became about me. Let me do some, let me prepare my notes,

00:28:35.940 Sean. Just one second here. Hold on. Maxwell's 21 something.

00:28:40.120 Yeah. Yeah. You're refutable laws of leadership. That's funny.

00:28:46.640 John, John Maxwell, I think is the, in my opinion, he's the highest authority in, in leadership out

00:28:55.380 there. He's been doing it the longest he's written the most, but he's written 90 something books on the

00:29:00.320 topic and he has courses on his website and other things you can do, um, with the programs you can

00:29:07.160 purchase through his site. Um, you know, and each, each one of the laws that he has, quote unquote,

00:29:14.960 you can go through. I did that early in my career. He has a, uh, uh, his second best book,

00:29:20.500 in my opinion, it's called the 17, I think, indispensable laws of teamwork. So if you're

00:29:26.320 building a business, you know, if you're leading people in any way, um, the combination of those two

00:29:31.880 books and, and, and when I went through that, I actually had his courses, each one of those laws

00:29:38.760 of him teaching it on, uh, on VHS, if I'm dating myself a little bit there, but I had the VHS course

00:29:46.140 of his back then, which again, you can get online now it's all digital, but, um, that was, it was,

00:29:53.300 it was for me indispensable. It, uh, it changed the course of our business, my leadership,

00:29:59.980 everything. And they're, they're laid out simply. And, uh, it's, it's the foundation

00:30:07.980 that I personally had built my entire, uh, business and, and leadership skills off of.

00:30:17.640 I love it. I love it. And he's a guy who's, who's helped not just business leaders, but

00:30:22.920 literally coaches, world leaders, um, you know, the, the best coaches, um, you know, world leaders,

00:30:31.000 uh, the best business people, um, you just start reading, dive in and very quickly you'll realize

00:30:40.160 why he's a good guy to listen to. John Maxwell. I'll throw out, here's mine, uh, trust and inspire

00:30:46.640 by Steven M R Covey, not the dad, the son. And then I would actually put how to be exceptional

00:30:56.220 by Zinger and Folkman. It's actually one of my favorite all-time books, um, on leadership,

00:31:03.280 but it's, it's almost like a leadership development. So it's focused on the development of you as a

00:31:09.660 leader and your leadership brand. And I really like that book, um, how to be exceptional by

00:31:16.440 Zinger Folkman. Zinger is one author and then Folkman, they coauthored the book. Um, what's

00:31:23.180 great about it is it focuses on that under, under leadership development, you should always focus

00:31:29.320 on what you're already good at and make it exceptional. And you shouldn't actually focus

00:31:33.320 on like kind of your weak points. And I think I've talked about on this podcast, maybe it was

00:31:38.380 actually another, on a different podcast, but really great book. They do an assessment,

00:31:42.760 assessment, like a three 60 degree assessment based upon their framework. And it's wicked

00:31:47.760 powerful. It's, it's actually amazing. Um, and I had one other book that came to mind that I just

00:31:53.400 really, really love. Uh, I don't know, would you put Carnegie's book, how to win friends and influence

00:31:59.140 people? Would you put that in leadership? If we were, I'd add it to leadership.

00:32:03.360 Yeah. I mean, just add it anyways. It's, that'd be in a top five. If you want to lead people for

00:32:11.120 sure, I would say. Yeah. And there's not leadership specifically, but it's, it's, um, it's,

00:32:19.360 it's good. Probably the most useful leadership skill, uh, you can have, you'll get from that book.

00:32:27.480 Yeah. That's a good point. A specific skill around leadership. And then the last one I'd add is the

00:32:32.900 five dysfunctions of a team. So yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Anyhow, there you go, man.

00:32:40.900 Hopefully those are helpful. Oh, uh, courses section coming along and I see, um, so on the

00:32:47.440 leadership side, uh, we have, uh, some good content that we're putting together. Um, I don't know if

00:32:54.180 it'll be available to all members of the iron council or just those that are battle team leaders

00:32:59.320 and mentors within our environment. Um, but that content framework has already been established.

00:33:05.800 Um, other than that, I can't really speak to when we'd be rolling that out. So, but a little preview

00:33:12.640 there, Brendan. All right. Matt Jenkins, my good buddy, actually. In fact, Matt just crashed at my

00:33:17.100 house like two days ago. He should have just asked this question then, uh, how to maintain a frame,

00:33:22.680 maintain frame with your spouse, but at the same time, being humble and patient and kind.

00:33:29.800 Hmm. What was the first part? Um, I'm assuming what he's saying, how to maintain the proper frame.

00:33:36.660 You've heard that analogy before, um, uh, talking about books since I had my audible up.

00:33:43.460 That's it. Yeah. The question lost me on that first part in that. Yeah, this is,

00:33:48.580 this kind of goes back and maybe I should be even hesitant to even mention this book on the podcast.

00:33:53.280 So maybe, maybe you start because I'm not understanding that exact

00:33:57.300 the wording on that. Yeah. Well, and, and I'll, and I don't know if I a hundred percent pick up

00:34:03.980 your question, Matt, but I will, I will do my best. Um, in fact, we may have already talked about

00:34:09.040 this. So Matt's like, man, I just want Ryan to answer this question, not you, but, uh, you know,

00:34:13.000 you got me today anyway. So, uh, you're going to get my answer. Uh, I'm, I'm thinking of the book,

00:34:18.240 the rational now, by the way, as I think about frame maintaining your frame. So think of it. Um,

00:34:25.620 well, let's, let's think of it this way. I think, and I'm totally going on limb here. So,

00:34:32.180 but I think as men, there's this balance that we constantly have. Um, and, and I, and I think it's

00:34:40.260 not intuitive because society says one thing and what they really want is something different.

00:34:44.500 And I think women are the same way. So for instance, I was, I was, in fact, I was just

00:34:49.560 listening to something last night and, and, and the author, he said, he said that something to the

00:34:58.220 extent of women will, women want you want some, they, they will say sometimes that they want someone

00:35:08.100 to like serve them and someone to be equal to them and, and that they would love to, you know,

00:35:16.360 and this is more of a feminist mentality, but, you know, be more dominant than a man and all those

00:35:22.020 things. They say that, but if they're in a relationship with a man that way, they would

00:35:27.400 lose respect for him and eventually want a man that is more dominant, that is more successful than them

00:35:36.180 and all these other things, because that's what they naturally look for. And, and there's this

00:35:40.820 poll, I think in society, and we, we, I think we see it in no more, Mr. Nice guy mentality of like,

00:35:47.620 be kind and don't be aggressive or whatever. But when you're the nice guy, you end up retaliating by

00:35:53.920 being the nice guy. And then second, like women, they don't want nice. They say they want nice,

00:36:01.060 but what they want is someone that's confident, that knows what they're doing. I'm not saying that

00:36:06.020 are, that is mean, we can be kind, but they don't want nice guys. They want, they want guys that know

00:36:12.680 what they're doing. And, and sometimes that gets pushed back because boys, he's, he's, he's so

00:36:19.500 domineering, but yet it's the very thing that, that, that sometimes most women want. And so what I'm,

00:36:26.520 what I'm assuming Matt's kind of asking is, is like, how do we maintain a strong masculine frame

00:36:32.400 of reference of how we show up in the relationship while at the same time being humble, you know,

00:36:40.460 not arrogant, being patient and kind and, and that balance, because it does sometimes I, I do,

00:36:47.580 I do agree with Matt. If he's saying this, that there, it does feel like a balance sometimes.

00:36:53.080 I didn't, now I get it. Now it makes more sense. I think that kind of makes sense. And I add a lot

00:37:00.700 of meaning to, to your question, Matt. So hopefully we're on target here. Yeah, I hope so too, but that

00:37:06.940 does make more sense as a question. It, I think it's get stuff done. I think it's, um, you know,

00:37:13.300 you, you said like, they don't want nice. That doesn't mean though, that they want a jerk either.

00:37:18.840 They, you can, you can be hard and soft at the same time. And it's just a matter for me,

00:37:27.720 I look at it as getting things done, showing up as the best husband, first and foremost, the best

00:37:36.900 husband and patriarch I can be in my, in my home. Um, so making sure that I'm serving my house

00:37:47.260 and my wife to my best ability. Um, then it's being the best father I can be and doing the best I can

00:37:56.740 do showing up on a daily basis in those ways. And then it's business, uh, my physicality, um, my health,

00:38:07.380 all of that is in alignment with that concept, but I don't have to be a jerk either. And so it's,

00:38:16.680 I had this exact thought I was watching that show. What is it? 1923. I think it is, you know,

00:38:25.020 it's, I don't know if you watch like Yellowstone or any of those things, but they have these like

00:38:29.740 prequels to it and it was like 1883, I think. And now it's 1923. And this is like, you know,

00:38:36.200 when they were coming West was the 1883 one, the 1923 is now they've settled in Montana and they're

00:38:41.600 trying to like maintain, but I mean, you want to talk about tough living, right? And it's this

00:38:47.020 dichotomy that they show of like the toughest of tough guys that you can have, but simultaneously

00:38:53.080 when they're with their wives, they're gentle, they're soft, they're loving, they're, you know,

00:39:00.180 um, you know, Hey honey. And it's not like these, these gruff, gnarly cowboys that, you know,

00:39:07.800 do like have killed people simultaneously, like, Hey honey, Hey dear, you know, give me a kiss and a

00:39:15.300 hug. And so they can still be soft and they can treat their wives that way. But then simultaneously

00:39:22.300 when things need to get done, it's like, you know, Hey, do this, do this, you know, when it,

00:39:28.600 when it, whatever, but it's never taken as mean from their wives because they know that they're

00:39:37.720 getting those things done. Um, but again, a lot of it is also communication. You see that in,

00:39:43.740 even in the show, they showed that they communicate well. So I think as long as you're showing up,

00:39:49.060 getting stuff done simultaneously, working on your softer side and making sure that you're

00:39:55.460 communicating your wife in a loving way and to your kids and, you know, to the people that you

00:40:00.440 have stewardship over, um, you can easily do both. It is a dichotomy, but it's something you need to

00:40:07.360 be cognizant of. And I'll kind of leave with this thought because it's happened to me in the last

00:40:12.520 three days, like five times where my kids did something that really pissed me off.

00:40:18.400 Um, you know, one was, and it's mostly my one like rebel kid, my oldest boy, um, just doing

00:40:25.500 stupid things, you know, that get him in trouble at school, whatever, but he's done them around me.

00:40:30.560 And, um, you know, one was he foot stomped me. It was an accident, but he was just being really

00:40:35.460 stupid. And I have a broken toe, my big toes broken. And so he'd like foot stomped me, um,

00:40:42.000 messing around doing something else. And, uh, we were walking into a target and it took everything

00:40:48.680 in me. I think he actually broke my, the toe next to that one too. Um, cause it's all purple now,

00:40:54.400 but, uh, took everything in me to not like my reaction would have been like, I like,

00:41:01.600 you know, kick him across the parking lot. So it was like everything in me to not. Um,

00:41:09.880 and then, and then I saw him hurt his brother, uh, the next day. Um, and like from that, it took me

00:41:17.220 two hours to calm down from the foot stomp thing. And I had to catch myself being mean to him and his

00:41:23.880 brothers and to the rest of my family, because I was upset about that event. And so I had to settle down

00:41:30.460 my aggression, right? The physical side of me that I worked so much on. Um, but then a harnessing

00:41:37.920 and being able to, to hold that back is a major part of that power, if you want to call it that.

00:41:43.960 And so, um, you know, when I saw him hurt his brother and this has happened a couple of times

00:41:48.180 in the last couple of weeks where I've had to sit him down and be like, look, you just hurt your

00:41:51.780 brothers. What do you think I would do if someone hurt one of your kids? If we were just out and about

00:41:59.160 and some man, some, whatever, I don't care who it is. Someone came and hurt you or one of your

00:42:06.240 brothers, your little brother, your seven-year-old brother, like you just hurt him. What do you think

00:42:10.640 I do to them? How do you think that would turn out for that guy? And he's like, oh my gosh,

00:42:17.080 probably kick his ass and joke him out. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. So what should I do with you then?

00:42:22.700 So no, as a father, what do you think I should do? And, and he, like, he had no answer for it.

00:42:31.460 Right. But that for me doesn't come naturally, naturally the way I was raised. Like if I did

00:42:36.840 something that like that to one of my siblings, I would have gotten a, you know, an ass kicking.

00:42:42.420 And so it's, so I have to hold that back and then I have to reframe that energy and bring that energy

00:42:53.000 in a positive way to my family. I'm still a work in progress, but it's, you know, over the course of

00:42:57.860 having kids the last, you know, almost 18 years now, it's, it's constantly working on that softer

00:43:03.120 side and bringing it to surface more often and faster. And, and slowly it's getting better and

00:43:09.700 better and better, but it's, it's definitely a lot of work.

00:43:14.080 Here's an additional thought, Matt, just really quick is make sure. And I'm saying this to myself,

00:43:20.560 make sure that we're not pandering to our wives because that will, we will retaliate.

00:43:26.040 And in hindsight, you know, maybe just no more, Mr. Nice guys, another good book just to read

00:43:31.420 currently, because I think we'll act those things out, right? Like if I'm doing something and I'm only

00:43:37.500 doing it because I'm being nice and I'm not, not doing it because I agree with it or, or, and it's

00:43:44.380 just rooted in why I don't want to create waves or rock the boat. If you're doing that, then you're

00:43:51.780 not maintaining a proper frame. You're going against how you feel. And when we do that, we will

00:43:57.420 retaliate. You'll retaliate in other ways. You'll stonewall them. You'll lash out later. It's not good

00:44:04.320 for anybody. And, and, and then you're inconsistent too, in regards to what am I getting right? Sean's

00:44:09.300 pissed off at me. I have no idea why, because you're not acting to be frank. When we do that,

00:44:14.940 we're out of integrity, I think. And so there's something that he said, like, like, don't, don't,

00:44:21.180 don't act out of like the area of like, well, I don't want to rock the boat. No, that's not how it

00:44:26.240 works. If something needs to be addressed, we need to address it. We need to communicate it

00:44:29.540 appropriately. And we address the issue and then handle it. And you might logically pivot at

00:44:34.780 through a conversation, but don't like just not the avoidance, the avoidance tactics is not going

00:44:40.340 to work from that perspective. Well, there's two extremes that are both unhealthy. It's the,

00:44:45.920 I'm just going to do whatever to make her happy is what you're talking about. And well, I'm the man

00:44:51.800 of the house and it's my way or the highway. And those are both unhealthy frames. And so that you

00:44:59.560 need to find that healthy in between. I'm going to jump. So we're going to jump to Facebook. If you

00:45:06.140 guys haven't joined us there, go to facebook.com slash group slash order man. And I'm kind of jumping

00:45:11.380 around a little bit because there's a couple of questions about the canoe and stuff. And I'll save

00:45:15.800 those questions for Ryan next week. All right. Joseph Mathis, if you chose to put a man in your

00:45:23.480 circle and he makes a mistake, is it your responsibility to hear him out? Context. One

00:45:29.760 of my best friends cheated on his pregnant wife for months and blocked out all of his friends and

00:45:34.760 family. After months of not being, not from hearing from him, he finally reached out and he said he made

00:45:42.080 the biggest mistake of his life. He's trying to turn his life around now and, and be there for his

00:45:47.800 future child and help his wife. My other friend and our wives want nothing to do with him, but I feel

00:45:54.140 as long as he's trying to better his life and make things right, I should hear him out.

00:46:00.800 I've had a few of these experiences just, and not in a friend group as much as just from a leadership

00:46:07.460 capacity with people in my business. The biggest one that comes to mind is I had a

00:46:12.040 guy that was cheating on his wife and we found out, or we heard, and then I asked him, he denied

00:46:17.260 it. You know, we heard another thing from another girl. He, you know, asked him, he denied it. And

00:46:22.700 then it was like a three strikes thing. And, and finally I was like, Hey, look, dude, if I hear it

00:46:26.960 again, that means it's not, you know, it's not circumstantial. It's not, it's not a miscommunication.

00:46:34.020 Like this is probably happening. Um, so why don't, like, if it's a problem with you,

00:46:39.040 can you just come clean? Like for the sake of your family? And he still denied it. And then,

00:46:43.320 uh, and then I heard again, I said, Hey, look, like I can't from a business standpoint,

00:46:47.760 hold you up in a leadership position. Here's the thing. He was a good guy. So it's not just

00:46:52.600 some random guy in my business, really good guy, good example, great. And all the things that we

00:46:56.800 wanted people in our business to do the way we wanted to do it. But that's a major one for us.

00:47:01.660 Like that's a deal breaker for me. And even though it's his personal life, it's still,

00:47:06.140 you know, our environment can be ruined by a guy, you know, that's like that. And so for our culture

00:47:12.680 anyways. And so I told him, we're not going to separate the things, you know, and it, but if

00:47:19.080 you'll admit it to me and you want to work on these things, I'll pay for your counseling, dude,

00:47:23.040 I'll, I'll put you in a program. I'll, I'll, you know, support you and help you however I can.

00:47:28.200 And, and, you know, maybe other people wouldn't agree with that, but deep down, I gave him the

00:47:37.380 benefit of the doubt and, and his capacity was so great that he could really do great things.

00:47:43.580 And I wanted to be able to, you know, foster that and help that in any way I possibly could.

00:47:49.740 But he denied it. And so the fact that he denied it, then we literally had to force him out of our

00:47:55.320 company, which is hard because we're all independent contractors, but we just made him so

00:47:58.720 uncomfortable in our environment that eventually just left and started his own company and stuff

00:48:03.660 like that. But that was, you know, that was hard. We also in process, like, quote unquote,

00:48:10.140 lost millions of dollars because he was one of our top guys. You know, but we probably gained a ton

00:48:16.040 by not having him in that environment anymore, but I tried and I tried for, you know, probably a good

00:48:21.780 solid, you know, half a year, a year. And so if this is in your group, I think it comes down to,

00:48:28.060 you know, his character and, you know, if he's a good guy, you know, if it's just words or if,

00:48:35.140 you know, his intent, you should, if you're good enough friends. And I think if it's, if it's legit,

00:48:41.000 then yeah, you work with them. And I think you try and help in the ways that you can don't kind of

00:48:47.960 like what you were saying. Don't do, don't like pander to him, you know, don't give him that

00:48:52.660 benefit of the doubt. Um, maybe you help him be accountable. Maybe you help him get into again,

00:48:58.440 the therapist and, and, you know, help him in those, making sure he's doing it and going and,

00:49:03.420 and being accountable to those things. And, uh, and then obviously if his wife is on board with

00:49:09.380 that, um, that that's going to be the first and foremost issue. It's no matter if she's not on board,

00:49:16.120 then it doesn't matter what you do, you know? And as far as the other friends, it's, uh,

00:49:22.340 I don't honestly think that matters. I mean, you have the conversations with them if you're going

00:49:27.800 to continue to help them and why, and maybe they understand, um, but maybe they don't, but if he's

00:49:33.920 a good enough guy and that family is, you know, a good family, then I, then I think it's worth it.

00:49:41.620 Yeah. I mean, I think Joe, like what's the right thing. What do you think the right thing is?

00:49:50.820 You know, it, it, it sounds like for me, it's like he, he, you feel like, you know, he's trying to

00:49:58.040 restore his integrity, right? Biggest mistake of his life, coming clean, doing what he can

00:50:03.860 to take care of his future child and help his wife. Well, you know what, by you helping him,

00:50:09.160 you're helping that kid and you're helping her. Now, it doesn't mean that you're going to trust

00:50:14.780 him with your wife going on, you know, uh, having lunch by themselves. You know what I mean? And,

00:50:19.560 and, and it doesn't mean that your relationship's a hundred percent, but it doesn't need to be a

00:50:24.060 hundred percent. You know, you can meet him where he's at and go, Hey man, like, yeah, this is really

00:50:28.960 screwed up. And guess what? Our, our spouses don't want to go on date nights anymore because they

00:50:32.960 don't trust you, but Hey, I'm here. How can I help you level up, restore your integrity and do what

00:50:40.540 you should be doing, which is taking care of your future child and handling things the best way

00:50:47.200 possible with your wife. How can I help you do that and be committed to that? I actually think,

00:50:56.120 you know, the answer. Real quick. It also, I think what we talked about earlier, be careful who you

00:51:05.040 talk to, right? Maybe it's also a way to evaluate your group, right? Your friends. Are you friends

00:51:11.800 with these couples just by default? Because maybe your kids happen to go to the same school or you

00:51:15.500 ended up being friends, you know, at church or whatever it is. Um, you know, how strong are these

00:51:21.420 guys, you know, if you came across challenges in your life, are they going to dump you too?

00:51:26.880 Right. And so, you know, maybe look at that. That's why I say not knowing the context of how

00:51:31.780 they are and how he is. I think that's a factor as well in these sorts of things.

00:51:37.780 Yeah. Good point. Good point. All right. Evan, uh, then in torn, torn, sorry, Evan, we always see

00:51:44.700 you two gentlemen as strong individuals and leaders in this group. That being said, what would you say is

00:51:50.200 your biggest insecurity or insecurities that you are working on? Expose us, Evan.

00:51:57.540 I think I just talked about it with the stuff with my kids. I think for me is if I had an insecurity,

00:52:04.040 a little bit, it would be that. Yeah. Anger default to anger. Um, and not even not anger as much as

00:52:11.140 I just want to be the best dad that I can for these guys. And it's, I don't want to be the reason

00:52:18.520 it's screwed up. And, uh, and so if that's, if you want to call that an insecurity, um, you know,

00:52:28.040 that would, that would be it. I just, uh, I, I probably, I'm not a real worrier and I know you're

00:52:36.640 kind of the opposite there. Um, but if, if I did worry about anything, that's the thing I worry about

00:52:44.140 more than any other thing. Anything else. Yeah. All right, Evan. So here's, here's, here's my

00:52:49.860 answer. So let me set some context. So in the iron council, for those that aren't part of the IC,

00:52:56.240 um, I don't remember the name of the book, but we we've been talking about this book that references

00:53:01.060 your shadow. And, and I have my own maybe interpretation of that, maybe a little bit

00:53:07.000 different than the author. Um, so I actually think when he's talking about your shadow, I, I think

00:53:13.880 what it is, is it's your, your frame of the, but the lens by which you see yourself in the world

00:53:21.180 and, and, and I maybe even said another way, you're already always listening. It's the context by which

00:53:29.860 you always look for evidence of things. And ironically enough, I think most humans are, we're so

00:53:36.680 engulfed with ourselves that we're always looking for evidence. We're evidence about how we see the

00:53:42.880 world. And, and those are actually comprised of defining moments in your life. And I'm not making

00:53:49.880 excuses. So don't, don't think I'm doing that, but, but there are, there have been events in your life.

00:53:55.360 Most of those events, by the way, are clear as day. You remember them like they're yesterday.

00:54:00.700 And, and, and, and those events, you saw the world one way, something happened and you determined that

00:54:08.460 you were never going to let that happen again. And that was a, uh, I guess a, a notch on the belt in

00:54:14.920 regards to how you see yourself and how the world interacts with you. And then more or less, we jump

00:54:20.440 ahead to 43 years later. And what am I, what's my default way of looking into the world is still the

00:54:27.120 validation of those stories that I've been telling myself my entire life. And those, those stories I

00:54:32.780 think are my biggest insecurities. And those are rooted in, I'm not good enough. And they're rooted

00:54:41.780 in the idea that I'm not lovable. And that's, that's my story I get to deal with. And that's the story

00:54:49.940 in the context by which I see things. So if my wife does something or work goes a certain way by

00:54:57.100 default, it's rooted in the idea that I'm actually not good enough. And there's like a sense of,

00:55:03.540 there's like a little bit of abandonment in that listening. If you, if you can look at it for a

00:55:08.540 little bit. Um, and, and, and I have to constantly address that gap as soon as it shows up and go,

00:55:16.020 wait, hold on. Is that true? Or, or did this person just do accident actually doesn't mean

00:55:21.360 all of that, that I've come up with. So, um, that's there's, there's my story.

00:55:28.360 When you say abandonment, you mean, you mean like the, the, your feeling of abandonment as a kid?

00:55:33.240 Totally. Yep. Totally. Yep. Yeah. Anyone's on the, on the verge of just, um, it, you know,

00:55:40.060 and I think we also listen from an area of like, not wanting to be found out, right? Like if they

00:55:45.420 found out, they would leave us kind of, most people with abandonment issues kind of approach

00:55:50.660 that. So if your wife really knew you for who you really were, then, then she would probably leave

00:55:57.180 you. Um, or, uh, or even when people give you compliments, right. That, that, that it's,

00:56:04.580 they really don't, they really don't know you like you appreciate the compliment, but you know,

00:56:10.820 but if they really knew you, they wouldn't say that. So even downplay confidence, uh, like, uh,

00:56:16.940 feedback or positive feedback that people give you, you'll downplay it because they must not really

00:56:21.060 know you. Yeah. Well, maybe. And that's the thing is like, I mentioned when we started that we're the

00:56:28.480 hardest on ourselves and the higher achiever you are typically that the harder you're going to be.

00:56:33.420 And so again, it's reminding ourselves of the stuff we are good at, but you know, it's, that's why I

00:56:41.460 say, if it's an insecurity, it's really different for everybody. Cause as you're, as you were saying

00:56:45.960 that, it just made me think of like the, the guy who just asked that question about his friend,

00:56:50.720 you know, and I think as somebody like one of my insecurities is that if I'm going

00:56:54.940 to be in a leadership role, am I a good enough example to give advice on anything?

00:57:02.660 And so maybe that's an insecurity too, is I'm constantly thinking about, okay, is this,

00:57:07.760 is this really the right thing to do so that I I'm valid in the advice that I give, right? That it,

00:57:15.580 that it holds true that, that it helps you, right? It also forces you to level up. Yeah.

00:57:22.180 But it makes me look at things in a different way of like, man, so-and-so screwed up. He cheated on

00:57:26.160 his wife. What a jerk. I'm going to not talk to that guy anymore. It's more like,

00:57:29.240 I think of it. And like the ripple effect in long-term and, you know, like that guy,

00:57:35.820 you mentioned that the kid, right. That, that, that child, you know, do we want another child

00:57:41.200 in another fatherless home? I mean, that's the root of all the major masculinity issues that we

00:57:45.920 have in our country is these fatherless homes, you know, the prison factor, all of the things you

00:57:50.840 look at all the major stacks lead statistics lead to that. And so do I want to be a contributor

00:57:57.220 to just allowing that to happen again to somebody, or do I want to try and contribute to

00:58:03.260 keeping that father in that home and, and building, you know, a strong family and a, and a strong

00:58:11.380 nuclear family. And I have that opportunity. So again, maybe that's an insecurity, right. And how

00:58:17.180 I look at things. But I think that's that as well, that it goes deeper than just what's in

00:58:23.200 front of us all the time. Yeah. Alan, Michael Atkins, how do you get over a breakup where you

00:58:30.200 sacrificed everything for that person? And we'll probably wrap up with this question, if that's

00:58:35.100 okay, Sean. Yeah. It honestly, I can't, I don't know if I can honestly answer it because I don't feel

00:58:45.340 like I've ever sacrificed everything for anybody. Um, I've definitely sacrificed some things and

00:58:56.220 continue to, um, in the growth of our business, our family. Um, but every single thing I don't think

00:59:04.240 I have, but I also think it's because I'd never gave it the opportunity. Um, I, I watched that happen

00:59:10.520 to other people, um, early on in my life as a kid, or at least that was their excuse when their lives

00:59:18.260 ended up in a place where they didn't want them. And they said, I sacrifice everything I had, I did

00:59:23.660 for this prayer. And then they left, or they did this to me or this happened. And so I made a decision

00:59:28.580 at a young age that I was never going to do that. So if I ever got into a position where somebody gave

00:59:34.780 me that ultimatum and I made a rule early in my life that, you know, if it was ever a girl who said,

00:59:41.920 Hey, it's me or your business, you know, or it's me or your whatever. And we were young or we were

00:59:48.240 dating or we weren't married or, you know, any of that, uh, maybe even if we were like, if they

00:59:53.380 expected me to literally just drop every single thing to wait on them hand and foot, it was, that was

00:59:59.720 a deal breaker. And so fortunately I never got into that circumstance, but, um, you know, I would

01:00:06.040 say that if you do that, you can't go back in time. So now you have to grow from it and then make that

01:00:12.580 your new rule. Yeah. That's the only thing I have on that. Well, how do you get over anything? You

01:00:20.880 learn from it. That's how, that's how you, that's how you get over it. You learn from it. You learn

01:00:29.040 who you were in it, how you caused it, the issues that you brought to the table. And you might be

01:00:36.120 tempted to think I sacrifice everything. I, there's nothing. Well, that's probably the problem

01:00:40.820 actually is that you sacrifice everything. So you need to learn that lesson. And we'll talk about that

01:00:44.840 here in a second, but learn where you made the mistakes and then have empathy and understand

01:00:52.260 them. That's it. So you have love and empathy for the very person that broke your heart. And then

01:00:58.060 you learn about all the mistakes that you made. That's how you get over it. You let go. Now let's

01:01:04.180 talk about this whole sacrifice, everything for a person, horrible idea, horrible idea. Who wants to be

01:01:11.440 in a relationship where all that waits on you, that that person gave up their entire life. And now it's

01:01:18.160 all in your hands. Are you joking? That is a mess. I don't, I want, I would want zero part of that from

01:01:26.020 a relationship perspective. And, and most people that, even if they said like, Oh, Sean, I want you to

01:01:32.500 sacrifice everything for us. They may say that right now until the pressure. And then you're so dependent

01:01:38.760 on them. You know what I mean? Because they give up everything. It's not, it's not healthy.

01:01:43.840 So, and, and then there's this huge root rooted assumption I'm making of, of expectations that you

01:01:51.900 probably put on them. Cause why else would you sacrifice? Well, I'm going to sacrifice all these

01:01:55.920 things. And in turn, I'm going to get whatever, or in turn, our relationship is going to be great.

01:02:02.360 Or like, dude, you do you right. Like do the things that you think is important. That brings

01:02:08.560 you value. I'm not saying that that person's not a priority in your life, but you don't put

01:02:13.320 them on such a pedestal that you've sacrificed everything for them. That is unfair to them.

01:02:21.560 And it's not good for you. And so learn that lesson and then have some empathy in that person.

01:02:28.140 Then you're going to be able to deal with that breakup easily because you understand where it

01:02:31.980 went wrong. And then now you can grow and be in a better position for the next relationship.

01:02:37.580 That's such a good point. When I said how I saw, Oh, there are people turn their life into that

01:02:43.620 blame. Just don't let that happen to you. I mean that, that I'm so glad you brought that up because

01:02:49.140 too many people become resentful and that that becomes their life story. Like you talked about

01:02:54.680 your stories that you tell yourself, let go of it. Yeah. Yeah. And don't let that become your life

01:02:59.720 story. Just know that you have new opportunities, the opportunities maybe that you missed or that you

01:03:06.200 gave up to choose, you know, the opportunities that maybe your partner or your, whatever you're

01:03:11.240 talking about, because we don't have the context on that. Whatever it was, those were missed

01:03:16.760 opportunities maybe, but it doesn't mean you're not still going to have opportunities, but you will

01:03:21.360 lose out on taking advantage of those opportunities. If you keep telling yourself that story and you make

01:03:27.660 it that you're, you're excuse for failure now. So if anything, you've got now a new leaf to turn.

01:03:34.700 You, you have wide open opportunities in front of you that you can take advantage of with no excuse.

01:03:40.420 So look at it that way. Yeah, totally. And, and yeah, listen to us. Like you got to, you got go

01:03:49.220 read no more, Mr. Nice guy. If you haven't read that books, it's on my mind since we referenced it

01:03:53.580 earlier. Be careful with that idea of I sacrifice everything for them. It's really unfair to them.

01:04:02.020 It really is. And there's probably a lot of covert contracts occurring in that same exact mindset

01:04:08.600 that you got to be mindful of. So, all right, guys, we got through the questions on the founder

01:04:13.860 handful on the Facebook group. Once again, if you guys haven't joined or banned with us, please do so

01:04:19.580 on social media. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can connect with us on Facebook at

01:04:25.320 facebook.com slash group slash order of man and all other things such as the order man store for merch

01:04:32.000 or learning more about the iron council, go to order of man.com the store 50% off on all inventory

01:04:40.620 right now. The code that you'd use at checkout is five zero. So take advantage of that. Ryan's

01:04:47.980 revamping inventory and kind of cleaning house a little bit there. So that's order of man.com or

01:04:54.900 just go to store.order of man.com to access those, um, those products. And of course, as always,

01:05:01.200 you can connect with Mr. Mickler on Instagram and Twitter at Ryan Mickler, Sean, anything else that

01:05:07.200 you'd like to say before we wrap up? No, I was glad to be here. Cool. All right. All right, gentlemen,

01:05:13.260 until next time, take action and become the men you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:05:18.420 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to

01:05:23.460 be. We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.

Order of Man - February 08, 2023

Seeking Support from Your Tribe, Dealing with Insecurities, and Getting Over a Breakup ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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