Order of Man - Self-Help Hangover, Jumpstarting Motivation, and The Crisis of Meaning

00:00:00.000 instead of reading a self-help book read a fictional book instead of going to the conference

00:00:05.120 go to the beach instead of having that deep conversation with your wife tonight or maybe

00:00:10.040 a friend have a fun playful conversation instead of doing the budget to the nth degree set some

00:00:17.060 money aside and say hey we've got a thousand dollars that we can spend this month on whatever

00:00:20.600 we want no constraints and just bring and infuse a little bit of fun and enthusiasm and excitement

00:00:27.060 you're a man of action you live life to the fullest embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path

00:00:34.560 when life knocks you down you get back up one more time every time you are not easily deterred

00:00:40.520 defeated rugged resilient strong this is your life this is who you are this is who you will become

00:00:48.140 at the end of the day and after all is said and done you can call yourself a man

00:00:53.540 good to see you this morning kip i hope all is going well on this fine monday morning

00:00:59.080 you and i both know what makes a good monday morning and it's amazing even in spite of what we know

00:01:04.780 how infrequently sometimes we do it so but my morning's actually getting off to a pretty good

00:01:10.600 start and the week's going and i've got my to-do list and all that stuff already here and

00:01:15.200 yeah it's been good it's been a good morning man good good well it sounds like how about you and um

00:01:20.920 yeah it's been a great morning i'm recovering from a a long weekend i i took the family to

00:01:26.700 literally a two-day road trip to bryce canyon and then the north rim of the grand canyon

00:01:33.340 that's a lot of driving in a two-day window but it was a little bit of a mad scramble i i have a

00:01:40.560 older brother that's moving out of town out of state and so a bunch of us siblings got together and

00:01:46.620 did a last little hoorah with him and before he uh you know before he moves across the the nation

00:01:53.140 nice well my family and i my kids in particular and i were uh talking about you guys over the weekend

00:01:59.760 and we're just wondering the best way to invite ourselves to the lake this summer would be so

00:02:05.640 uh which by the way was not my idea but the kids are like hey the kids are like hey we want to go back

00:02:12.640 to the lake i'm like all right let me talk with kip and figure out what we can make work that's

00:02:17.320 funny that's funny they're like hey they had a good time last year work work some angles for us

00:02:21.800 well i i told him i said hey guys what do you want to do this summer like i want to take you guys on a

00:02:26.400 trip you know we can go down to the beach in california we can get up to the mountains and get a cabin

00:02:31.280 and find a cool place and uh they're like we want to go to kip's house in the lake i'm like that's easy

00:02:37.640 two hours north and we're in so i love it anyways yeah we'll make a time last year yeah i love it

00:02:43.700 i love it well should we get to some questions today yeah yeah absolutely we're going to fill

00:02:47.980 some questions from the facebook group if you haven't joined us there that's facebook.com

00:02:52.140 slash group slash order of man uh jose and jose depending on whether you're portuguese or um hispanic

00:03:01.360 i was always i was always confused about jose aldo because i always assumed it was jose but he's

00:03:06.940 is he brazilian yes he's brazilian that's why it's jose yes yeah so i don't know if

00:03:14.180 if uh suniga is portuguese or not right so but uh regardless here's this question um how to deal

00:03:24.340 and fight toxic uh leadership in your job oh from spain so we're going with jose sorry i should have

00:03:32.220 read that last sentence all right so how to deal with toxic leadership in your job

00:03:36.760 yeah i'm i'm trying to think of new angles because this is a question that we get quite often

00:03:43.500 and one angle that i think we often overlook is that it always appears to be toxic because we might

00:03:50.920 be the brunt of their frustration or contention or their own issues that they're working through and

00:03:58.500 it may actually not have anything to do with you at all uh it may just be you're the outlet for

00:04:04.620 the the frustrations and contentions that that are happening so i want to talk about it in a couple of

00:04:09.920 different contexts first the more empathetic one which is try to put yourself in his shoes first

00:04:15.340 is this a person who's high stressed uh under the gun dealing with maybe departments or that

00:04:23.260 aren't functioning correctly that he has no control over maybe it's a budgeting issue where he doesn't

00:04:29.060 actually have the resources he needs maybe his boss is the jerk and it has nothing to do with him

00:04:34.080 there's a lot of things that could be happening behind the scenes that you're just not privy to

00:04:38.880 so the first thing i would do is i would really try to expand and broaden out my perspective

00:04:46.720 and wonder is he really toxic or is there something else at play here and is there anything that i can

00:04:54.580 personally do to help him get problems solved a lot of the times people can actually be the problem

00:05:04.900 and if you can be the solution to the problem not based on what you think the solution is but based on

00:05:11.540 what he needs then it's going to be a little bit better i think generally and that just requires a

00:05:17.760 conversation so if you're my top line leader kip it might be me coming to you and saying

00:05:22.320 hey kip you know we've worked together for a long time and i really enjoy being here

00:05:26.820 i like the people that i work with i do feel a little bit of stress at times because of x y and z

00:05:31.620 and it got me thinking over the weekend if you feel the same way and and if you do feel the same way

00:05:38.700 i would like to know what i can do in my department or myself or with my team to help you solve the

00:05:45.980 problems that you think are most pressing right now those conversations to me are so powerful and

00:05:52.820 then we can get into the oh yeah he's definitely toxic because that does exist i'm not saying it

00:05:57.580 doesn't but i think there's a better angle at least initially than just being passive buying into the

00:06:04.780 idea that he's toxic doing the workplace gossip being part of that that negative culture and then

00:06:11.980 get into the other problems that might exist what do you think of that i totally agree in fact one of

00:06:18.740 the core principles and we talked about this last week actually for leaders is to love those you lead

00:06:24.640 and and to love someone that you lead it really kind of implies that you see and you believe in

00:06:32.520 them as an individual that they want to do great work that they want to contribute in meaningful ways

00:06:38.940 that they're not intentionally being a bad employee well leadership is a decision in a lot of cases and

00:06:46.420 so jose as a leader whether this is your direct leader or a direct report to you if you want to show up

00:06:55.400 as a leader what do you need to do love those you lead even lead up the chain of command have some

00:07:01.360 empathy to your point ask more questions understand the issue but whenever we default to people are the

00:07:09.260 problem whether we're in a position of authority or we're looking up the chain of command if you default

00:07:16.820 to people are the problem then what you're not going to do jose is self-evaluate you're not going to

00:07:22.840 consider your role in it you're going to immediately start allocating blame that the problem obviously

00:07:28.360 is everywhere but with you and it's your and it's your leader's fault and the unfortunate part about

00:07:35.460 that is even if it's true is you're not self-evaluating your role in it and you're not going to learn and

00:07:41.540 grow as a as a person if you're not looking in your role in in regards to what you can do to contribute

00:07:49.000 to the to the solution well and there might even be situations depending on the relationship you have

00:07:55.140 with with your boss in this case where you could actually go to a person for example well in our

00:08:01.480 context i'm not i wouldn't say i'm your boss but in the context of what you're doing here yeah i have

00:08:06.840 that supervisory role right yeah so but we also have a good enough friendship where you could come to me

00:08:11.820 and say hey ryan you know i know this is what we're working on i know this is important to you

00:08:16.160 but i can i can i share something with you and i would say yes because of the relationship we have

00:08:22.120 and you might say man you seem to be really agitated over the past couple of weeks or you seem

00:08:28.420 uh emotionally reactive in a way that i haven't seen you act in a while or hey you handled that

00:08:36.040 situation in a way that doesn't seem like the well-adjusted ryan would do it and i've seen both

00:08:43.400 you could actually have that conversation with me yeah from a place of love where you actually

00:08:49.220 care about me and i might say oh man i'm having an issue with one of my kids or uh you know somebody

00:08:55.100 close to me just passed away or maybe i just feel a lot of pressure from what's going on or there's a

00:09:00.500 financial hardship and it gives me an opportunity to explain but also for me as a as the leader in

00:09:05.720 this case to be checked and realize oh i didn't realize that my personal life was spilling over i didn't

00:09:12.260 realize i was treating people poorly or or whatever the situation may be uh but but i but i also think

00:09:18.080 okay so that's that's the empathetic side right and i think it's important we address that let's let's

00:09:23.480 assume that you've done a lot of that work and you still have a toxic employer oh go ahead did you want

00:09:28.020 to say something before i was going to ask you i don't know sometimes when i hear the word toxic

00:09:33.680 and i hear gaslighting and i hear i hear all these tools of labels that we've all inherited

00:09:41.120 to place quick judgments on people without critically thinking so so i want to challenge

00:09:48.320 or not challenge but like ask you what would be your definition of a toxic leader because sometimes

00:09:54.620 it's like oh i don't have a great leader they're toxic oh they're gaslighting and and we just use

00:09:59.180 these as tools you know what i mean to feel right and make someone wrong and so maybe we level set

00:10:04.200 first on like what would you say a toxic leader is yeah well toxic is is subjective you know i i i tend

00:10:13.340 to be more of an aid type personality where i'm i'm blunt and i'm forthright i don't i don't really want

00:10:18.880 a small talk um i don't want to talk about the weather i want to get into deep subjects i want to get to

00:10:24.040 the brass tacks like i want to get after it and there might be other people who are maybe more

00:10:29.260 analytical or more thoughtful who would look at my personality and assume well ryan's an asshole

00:10:34.520 not not not objectively subjectively maybe but if you really understand what makes a person tick to

00:10:43.220 your point they might not be toxic it may just be something that you need to adjust to because you

00:10:47.880 have to have a relationship with them in a work setting but i think if we're trying to look at it

00:10:53.240 as objectively as possible toxicity would be mistreating people uh taking advantage of the

00:11:01.780 individuals um being verbally or most emotionally abusive probably dishonest so their character

00:11:08.980 manipulation yeah kind of what we're talking about here is their characters in question

00:11:13.460 right oh absolutely absolutely it's it would be that's a good way to sum it up it's a it's a

00:11:19.660 it's character deficiencies yeah okay i like that you know the other the other things like he's toxic

00:11:27.000 because we don't have the budget well that's not toxic but the way he communicates we don't have the

00:11:32.480 budget might be yeah so it's not toxic to say we don't have the budget you might just say hey this is

00:11:39.140 not a company i want to work with because they don't have the budget to do the things that are aligned

00:11:42.300 with what i want to do but that's not toxicity that's just a misalignment in where you're working

00:11:48.360 i think yeah is that fair to say it that way yeah absolutely i like that i like that distinction

00:11:53.560 uh so so let's say you do have a toxic according to what we just said a toxic work environment or a

00:12:01.100 toxic boss um i did a friday field notes last week and i titled it options equal freedom you know we

00:12:07.900 also we always hear discipline equals freedom and i believe there's a lot of truth to that

00:12:11.680 and i had a couple people challenge me on some semantics on it but i thought they were good

00:12:16.420 challenges where they said well discipline does create options that's legit that's legitimate that's

00:12:21.880 that's how you get to options maybe it's through discipline yeah for sure but i chose to focus on

00:12:26.960 options because i think when a person has options they aren't obligated to be in a situation that they

00:12:31.980 don't want to be in yeah so you could double down on discipline and not be creating options for

00:12:37.420 yourself and you still don't have the freedom right well somebody else said hey everybody's

00:12:43.240 disciplined it's just a matter of what you're disciplined towards exactly yep if you're if

00:12:48.860 you're a um if you're an addict for example i guarantee you're disciplined enough to go find

00:12:55.080 how you get your next fix yeah yeah right there's a lot of effort going on there yeah yeah so it's

00:13:01.800 just a matter of what you're what you're disciplined towards which i thought was a pretty thoughtful

00:13:05.520 comment but the best way to have options are are this i've i've written down a few here number one

00:13:12.140 is that you're skilled if if i'm an employee and i'm skilled and i'm proficient in the work that i'm

00:13:21.040 doing and i generate revenue and i make the work better and i'm an asset to the company do you think

00:13:27.420 i have less or more leniency with the way i operate within the work culture obviously more

00:13:34.240 yeah it it's it's funny when you hear kids who quit baseball or football and they say oh my coach

00:13:41.780 was a jerk he never played me yes sure that might happen but coaches want to win games so the real

00:13:49.460 reason he probably didn't play you and you don't like him is because you weren't as good as you thought

00:13:54.340 you were totally that is far more likely than what other scenario he has against you yeah right yeah

00:14:02.960 absolutely so being skilled and proficient makes you a more valuable person and if you're a more

00:14:11.700 valuable person he's probably going to take it easier on you because he doesn't want to run the risk

00:14:16.980 of losing you because if you're gone he's hosed so if there's opportunities to develop skill sets to

00:14:24.300 get some credentialing to pick up a new designation or a degree or go to go to a course on your own time

00:14:31.180 to to learn the new hardware the new software that just came in and you can do that on your own time

00:14:38.800 and your own dime man you are going to be light years ahead of anybody else who's not doing that

00:14:44.420 and by the way i say your own time in your own dime if the company offers it sure take advantage

00:14:49.220 of it but even if they don't still do it because it's not wasted you will have that training for

00:14:55.780 other opportunities that come down the road with future employment number two is that you are well

00:15:02.800 networked meaning that you're a connector you have great relationships you have good relationships with

00:15:09.260 your clients you have relationships with uh complementary organizations that yours might

00:15:15.440 work with even competing organizations you still you like those people you know them well because if

00:15:20.780 it gets too toxic it's like i can just jump ship and go over there if i could not do order of man today

00:15:26.380 i would have another job lined up this afternoon that might not be ideal i might take a pay cut

00:15:32.660 may not be what i want to do and for the rest of my life but i could have that today totally that

00:15:39.120 option is powerful for me and then the other thing that i wrote down here is that you want to be well

00:15:45.020 liked you want to be a liked individual and this alludes to learning the game of office politics

00:15:53.480 i cannot tell you how many times i hear people say well this is stupid i'm not gonna play that game

00:15:59.260 politics yeah you can say that and you can be upset and you can isolate and you can be a jerk

00:16:06.200 about it and you can undermine it and you can do all those things it's not going away so instead

00:16:12.320 learn to be a politician shake hands and kiss babies as they say it doesn't undermine who you are

00:16:18.900 you're not going against your own integrity it just means i'm learning how to play the game now i'm not

00:16:23.560 going to be a suck up or a brown nose necessarily but i'm going to learn who the players are i'm going to

00:16:28.700 help the right people i'm going to advocate for myself i'm going to congratulate other people i'm

00:16:33.920 going to praise other people because it's part of the game and when you're well liked it's less likely

00:16:39.920 that people will take out their issues on you and they'll just be more pleasant around you

00:16:45.060 totally i bring up this study often um and this is probably a study about 10 years ago and it was

00:16:52.780 around the driving factors that affected um malpractice lawsuits for physicians number one

00:17:02.240 deterrent likability yeah it's the bedside manner yeah it's not the quality of work it's whether they

00:17:10.420 liked you or not and and we all know this to be true when you like people and they mess up you give

00:17:15.880 them grace you go ah you know ryan's just he's he's trying right because we don't question their

00:17:21.380 character when you have an established relationship but when you don't have a relationship with someone

00:17:25.880 you don't know their character and so you might assume worst case intent so that's all that this is

00:17:33.380 is is is the importance of relationships the only thing i'd add ryan and let me know if you agree or

00:17:38.500 not is win where you are too right don't like don't go covert i'm gonna get these skills and network

00:17:46.100 and then suck at your job right like jose still win or jose still win where you are i had this

00:17:53.920 conversation with the director it was probably about two years ago and he was getting some coaching

00:17:59.260 about feeling micromanaged from his leader and he's like oh man this these particular things should be

00:18:04.020 delegated to me and my response to him was well are you winning right now where you are

00:18:09.140 and he wasn't i'm like dude you're in zero position to say give me more authority over my job

00:18:18.260 when you can't even win with what has been given to you so whatever you do jose make sure you're

00:18:25.580 winning you're killing it and then do all these other things and and trust me you'll have more influence

00:18:32.540 and or you'll have some empathy and you'll understand the bigger picture of things and and you'll end up

00:18:37.880 addressing this or worst case scenario right it doesn't work for me now i'm set up i have those

00:18:43.320 options right to go somewhere else exactly all good yeah everything's good there's not there's

00:18:49.320 nothing about what we share that has any negative side effect no if anything upswing you'll grow you'll

00:18:56.120 develop you'll be better off for the next job yep yeah the only other thing i'd say on this and i think

00:19:01.880 we're maybe beating a dead horse is just don't get bitter about it because the minute you start

00:19:05.360 getting bitter and taking things personally it shows up in a big way and then he's going to be

00:19:10.540 more toxic to you i promise you yeah yeah good point good point mr bob ross are either of you

00:19:17.880 currently writing a book if so what are the details if not why not and what are you considering for your

00:19:25.160 next book way to just pigeonhole the conversation yeah it's like this is what i want you to say

00:19:30.800 answer it this way and if you don't answer it anyway um i am not currently writing a book i have a few

00:19:38.820 ideas uh and i want to do it a little differently than the first two sovereignty and the masculinity

00:19:44.280 manifesto uh i have some ideas and i'm going to speak about them very broadly i'm keeping it close to

00:19:53.100 my chest a little bit the ideas the ideas okay i really want to talk about men's leadership

00:20:00.380 specifically but what we have authority over so it might be a little bit controversial because

00:20:06.920 in modern times

00:20:08.680 it's almost frowned on if you feel like or behave as if you have authority over certain things but the

00:20:19.000 reality is is that we do we have authority over our families for example uh we have authority over

00:20:24.920 our body we have authority over our household authority over our possessions and i want to talk

00:20:30.820 about how to protect those things how to lead righteously in in those moments so that's about as

00:20:41.660 deep as i want to get right now because i've got some ideas that i'm fleshing out but uh that'll be in

00:20:45.600 the next year or two got it got it that's cool i have i've i mean we've even had this conversation

00:20:52.360 i think like a year ago i may have mentioned to you like oh ryan i'm thinking about writing something

00:20:57.000 and i haven't done anything i probably should just say i'm not so then that way i'm not held

00:21:01.240 accountable to anything so i have ideas but um that's all that they are right now i'm not sure if

00:21:06.880 i'm committed to it yeah well if you're saying i'm not sure i'm committed to it then you're not

00:21:12.000 committed to it yeah yeah yeah good point i'm not committed to it not yet anyway and and what i

00:21:17.240 would say say to that is make sure you're committed because it may not seem it may not seem let me say

00:21:26.200 it this way it's a lot easier than it looks excuse me it's a lot harder than it looks it looks yeah it

00:21:34.440 looks it looks easier than it actually is it is time consuming it is challenging at least it was

00:21:41.320 for me this is my experience and i don't really wish that process on my worst enemy but we do it

00:21:48.600 because not because i want to be an author i learned this from ryan holiday i think not because you want

00:21:55.360 to be an author but because what you have to say will serve people in a meaningful way and so it's

00:22:01.060 almost a sense of obligation and duty and responsibility than desire and vanity yeah

00:22:07.020 well and i love that because then it's no longer about all the things that will block you from

00:22:13.060 writing right and the things so blocking you from writing would be well what if i do this thing and

00:22:17.940 and it's a failure well that was never the intent anyway right like if i believe in the message then

00:22:22.620 then so be it the the only area that that i feel like it would be it's just i've created so much

00:22:30.040 content over the last year and a half that i almost feel like i don't know maybe that i'm closer than

00:22:38.100 i'd realize once i just put everything together but well i don't know maybe that's wishful thinking

00:22:44.500 it's not wishful thinking it's just a bit of a misconception people think that having more

00:22:50.120 information to talk about means that they have a greater chance of writing a successful book yeah but

00:22:55.980 what i found and by everything that i've read from very successful authors and authors i've talked

00:23:00.340 with is it's not the amount of information because what most people will do is they'll say okay

00:23:05.040 i have this you know i have seven years of lessons and speeches and reports and presentations that i can

00:23:13.340 compile everybody has that you know you've been alive for 40 plus years kip of course you got 40 years

00:23:19.240 of experience under your belt that's not the problem the problem is how do you take out this

00:23:24.900 little piece of that this one little section of that and go as deep as you possibly can on that one

00:23:32.580 little concept or that one little idea it's it's that's very articulation of it yes yeah because i could

00:23:41.620 talk about how to have systems in place what systems like i could talk about 30 different systems

00:23:48.980 and write 30 chapters but not really get deep in anything and it didn't serve anybody any better off

00:23:53.000 than just going to pull up something off youtube yeah you got to pull out one sliver and then dive deep

00:23:58.220 into that realm love it all right chris and rione what's one thing you do each of you to jump

00:24:06.000 start your motivation i just i just do it like i just like i just pick something and do it i don't

00:24:16.400 i'm not trying to be dismissive of the question yeah but i don't need motivation to get me going

00:24:23.900 i mean i like to be motivated motivation certainly helps me if i hear from somebody or listen to a song

00:24:30.680 in particular or a presentation or read a book and that inspires me in some way or watches them watch a

00:24:35.960 movie but that's not really i don't really need that like i said i was gonna do it here's my to-do

00:24:43.980 list here's the things i need to get done and and here's the end result when i do it so i just i just

00:24:49.720 do it now there there's two ways to look at this that i that i think that i've identified

00:24:55.280 and and what works for me there's one in particular that works for me when i'm feeling maybe

00:25:01.280 demotivated maybe i'm being lazy or procrastinating or i had a long weekend or

00:25:06.420 i'm getting back from vacation like how do i get motivated to get going again

00:25:11.180 write out everything that needs to get done and you could either do one of two things

00:25:16.860 the first thing is you can just say what is the priority right now

00:25:20.720 so i've got 20 things i need to do today i just got back from vacation i'm not really wanting to get

00:25:25.800 back into it i got 20 things what's the most pressing thing on the list and then just do it

00:25:30.380 motivation be damned just do it so that's one that doesn't work for me as well as the second

00:25:35.920 strategy the second strategy is pick the easiest thing to do so you have 20 things that you've got to

00:25:43.660 get done what's the thing that's just going to take you a few minutes maybe it's send an email

00:25:47.440 maybe it's make a phone call uh maybe it's um maybe it's just writing out your to-do list

00:25:53.940 like just what's going to be the easiest thing that you can do and then do that and then the

00:25:58.960 next thing you do is okay what's the next easiest thing the next easiest thing because for me just

00:26:04.220 being able to check something off the list is a little bit of a motivation for me i'm like oh cool

00:26:08.680 i was productive today and then you pick another thing oh cool i got that done and then you look at

00:26:14.120 your list and out of 20 things maybe you didn't get the priority done but you got 16 things and now

00:26:20.020 you're motivated and the wheels are turning and you built up some consistency and some momentum and now

00:26:25.220 you can get to that thing that really needs to be done because you have the energy levels to do it

00:26:29.020 i like it you know it's interesting ryan i um last week for the last couple weeks i've been really

00:26:37.240 diving into motivational theory and it's really interesting because and not to sound like completely

00:26:46.640 disruptive to a lot of things but i think i've understood this wrong for a long time um especially

00:26:51.460 when we've always had a tendency in the manosphere right to be like motivation is this fleeting thing

00:26:58.640 act out of discipline you don't need it right kind of thing and and the more i've done research into

00:27:04.560 this the more i realized that you doing it you know kind of what you just said is like well i just do it

00:27:11.740 because that's what i need to do is a form of motivation but the motivation could be that the

00:27:17.560 importance of integrity is the motivation the importance of who you are as a man is the motivation

00:27:24.480 and it's not this extrinsic motivator it's this intrinsic motivator of what it means about you as an

00:27:30.160 individual if you don't do it and so it's interesting like and we and i don't mean to you know play with

00:27:36.120 words a little bit too much here because we'll lose uh the objective of the question but a lot of things

00:27:41.820 motivate people and and sometimes it is identity of self that might do it other cases it might be

00:27:48.040 extrinsic things and and other other things are internal um and and just to kind of give chris some

00:27:54.900 examples here you know three primary motivational theories here here they are self-determination

00:28:01.160 theory goal settings theory and expectancy theory self-determination theory primary motivator across

00:28:10.600 all people is agency and freedom in what they're doing competence or the feeling of mastery and then

00:28:19.340 number three a sense of belonging meaning and connection those are your top three motivators

00:28:25.100 after that it's goal setting it's progression and then it's reward systems right around your performance

00:28:33.040 so those are are all things to kind of think about but for me um you know specifically to your question

00:28:40.380 jumpstart motivation for me it's sometimes just acting because i can't think my way into

00:28:47.620 getting motivated most of the time like if i'm kind of you have to do something yeah if i'm in a

00:28:53.960 slump i can't sit there and go oh okay uh you know what does this say about me as a person if i don't

00:28:59.000 like it won't work i just have to pick something and start going and and even if it's small it's like i'm

00:29:05.940 not going to think about it i'm just going to drive to the gym and just start working out and by the time

00:29:10.500 i'm done or i'm in the workout for 10 minutes i'm all there i'm good to go or if i don't want to

00:29:17.280 clean the garage or i don't want to do something i just start doing it and i know that i'm going to

00:29:23.080 feel great about doing it so i just move to action and try not to think and one trigger that i've used

00:29:29.160 in the past is if i'm excusing it that's when i know i need to act so if the thought enters my mind

00:29:36.480 i should go do x and if it's followed up with a reason why i shouldn't now i'm making excuses and

00:29:42.180 so if i do that i go no that's the sign i just gotta go and then i just go i think it's powerful

00:29:49.080 have you ever talked with anybody who's very successful or maybe they're very healthy and you

00:29:55.520 ask them a question about like how'd you do it and they they have a hard time giving you an answer

00:29:59.700 yeah they're like i don't i don't know i just just kind of i just i just want to do things that i'm

00:30:05.500 successful or i don't know like i don't know what i eat i just eat good and work out and you're like

00:30:11.760 trying to find answers to figure out how to do it to me that's an indicator that this individual

00:30:15.940 has successful principles so internalized and ingrained into their identity that they're no

00:30:22.200 longer looking at it as to-dos of tasks yeah yeah it's this it's who they are it's not right the thing

00:30:29.440 they're trying to become exactly or or let me make this 20 point checklist of how to prep food and how

00:30:38.640 to prepare it right and then what workout it's just so it's just so much part of their dna that

00:30:45.060 it's like that's a dumb question like why you just do you just be healthy you just be successful yeah

00:30:52.940 and it's like people like that i don't think are trying to be dismissive they just have a hard time

00:30:58.420 the point that i'm making here is that it's identity are you so i've even done this as negative

00:31:05.640 identity where where if i'm having a hard time getting something done in my mind whether it's

00:31:11.720 true or not is irrelevant and whether you think i'm judging other people or myself is irrelevant too

00:31:15.760 is i will literally say to myself this is not what a successful person would do or if i'm behaving

00:31:21.460 poorly i'll say this is what a lazy person would do this is what a weak man would do right now and

00:31:28.200 that sometimes is enough for me to say nope because i'm not that and make a switch to my behaviors

00:31:33.720 yeah i mean and this is where it's tough i mean i i don't mean to demonize jocko and i kind of did

00:31:40.000 on our last friday call a little bit it's hard to connect sometimes right and i'll use that as an

00:31:45.760 example right it's like you know it's hard to see be someone that's maybe unmotivated and say hey jocko

00:31:52.760 i need some coaching he's like just be disciplined it's like well just that that doesn't help me right

00:31:59.260 that doesn't help me make the step right and so i think sometimes we struggle with what that looks

00:32:04.600 like for us uh intentionally um but i think that's where getting connected to the bigger picture of

00:32:12.080 who you are being as a person and and to your point mindset right mindset beliefs and attitudes

00:32:19.580 drive action and behavior and sometimes we want to force action and behavior without the alignment of

00:32:29.060 the right mindset and attitude and and it just doesn't work that way and and and i think and

00:32:36.220 but there's danger in that right because in the same breath i would i'd be fearful that everyone here

00:32:41.180 that heard that statement is going to go home sit on their couch and you know think for 12 hours on how

00:32:48.140 to take action when reality they just need to start acting too right and so i don't know it's it's tougher

00:32:53.400 than just take action and it's a lot more than just sitting about it and changing your mindset because

00:32:59.780 sometimes action is what's required to help your mindset change well i mean i don't disagree with

00:33:05.600 you but also i would say that there's some people who are so proficient at taking action that they do

00:33:10.900 it at the expense of thoughtfulness i tend to lean more towards that and so what ends up happening

00:33:16.200 is i make dumb mistakes um i might pay more for something that i need to because it's a tuition

00:33:24.820 payment as my friend pete roberts might say or uh dave ramsey would call it a stupid tax

00:33:30.760 um because you're not thoughtful about it that's yeah so there's there's a lot of things

00:33:37.480 i guess i'll say it this way it's just dependent on who you are

00:33:41.300 yeah if you're a somebody who thinks and contemplates and you never take action then

00:33:46.060 you need somebody like jocko to say just do it already yeah just go and and that's why i think

00:33:51.760 when you are bringing self-help in i wrote a couple of duos down here that i think is pretty

00:33:56.360 interesting so you have a guy like jocko who's like yeah you just do it you're just disciplined

00:34:00.060 just get after it he pairs really well with a guy like jordan peterson and jordan peterson's sitting

00:34:06.800 around like on his therapy couch pontificating the cosmos and it's like well what do you do

00:34:12.060 and he's like i don't know you just think about it more no you have to have both personalities

00:34:18.940 another duo that comes to mind is somebody like andrew huberman very thoughtful very intelligent

00:34:23.760 um clearly knows what he's talking about can communicate it fairly well although it is dry at

00:34:29.460 times coupled with somebody like cam haynes yeah who's running marathons every day and hunting in

00:34:37.140 the bed and that's a good duo yeah and so you need both sides of it and you might need more based on

00:34:44.560 your own personality and your own uh proclivities to moving towards certain behaviors yeah that that's

00:34:52.940 a great example are like luke skulls uh there have been several discussions with jordan peterson

00:35:00.360 and john vervaic on what they call the meaning crisis wondering if either of you have listened to

00:35:07.760 or dove into the work of these gentlemen on this particular topic and or your willingness to shoot

00:35:13.200 from the hip and your thoughts around the meaning crisis if so where does it stem from and how to

00:35:19.300 tackle it as from what i drew from these conversations it's a connection to meaning is

00:35:24.540 what allows us to create a vision a connection that it's worth fighting for that comes from something

00:35:30.200 greater a connection to an internal belief we are capable of playing a part in bringing it about

00:35:35.620 in other words everything needed to have success in a battle plan yeah i was taking some notes as you

00:35:44.640 were saying that because i want to make sure i dress i don't really know the context of the meaning

00:35:48.000 crisis so i don't want to speak of it that way but i'm always willing to shoot from the hip

00:35:52.080 of course whether i'm right or wrong i'm always willing to do that um uh i'm just taking a couple

00:35:59.600 notes okay so if i had to assume or guess just based on what i have read and heard from jordan

00:36:04.660 peterson it's that we have a lack of meaning or in purpose not only within ourselves but culturally

00:36:11.180 we're missing a lot of meaning and purpose and i think when we are missing that in our culture

00:36:17.520 we end up making decisions that feel good in the temporary in the micro but in the macro end up doing

00:36:24.700 more harm than good and i think part of the reason that is what we're going to say well i was just going

00:36:30.640 to add the definition i pulled it up here if you wanted me to read it really quick yeah go ahead and

00:36:34.180 read it so so the meaning crisis refers to a cultural and psychological condition in which

00:36:38.900 individuals and societies struggle to find purpose direction or a shared sense of meaning in life

00:36:44.380 it's a term used to describe a the widespread sense of disconnection that many people experience in

00:36:52.160 modern times especially in the western world okay so yeah i think i was on the right track with that

00:36:57.780 so i'll tell you why i think it's the case i haven't done extensive research or study or heard what

00:37:04.060 jordan peterson necessarily has to say about it but i will say that if we have this crisis

00:37:11.760 crisis with meaning and i think that's probably true then what have we been doing instead

00:37:18.160 and what we have been doing instead is pursuing pleasure and happiness that is what we've been doing

00:37:27.160 as a society we we pursue things that make us happy and give us pleasure versus something that will

00:37:35.600 actually bring meaning into our life i mean you can see it in the dating space how many people are more

00:37:40.520 worried and interested in getting laid than they are building a long-term committed relationship with

00:37:44.420 somebody pleasure happiness versus purpose fulfillment and and joy is the term i would use but i think the

00:37:53.820 reason that we do that is because it appeals to our vanity the things that we want and it appeals to

00:38:00.840 our impatience we want all the results without any of the effort we want it now we want to look good we want

00:38:08.280 to have all the things and we just want to be happy i mean think about it even in the lgbtq realm like

00:38:15.460 do what makes you happy find yourself like live the way that you want to live the hell with whatever

00:38:23.340 it has to do negatively on on culture and society just be happy find your joy and if people don't

00:38:31.340 like it well that's their problem you don't need to contribute to the collective good that's not your

00:38:37.100 responsibility the most important thing is that you're happy and then you see it for example let's

00:38:43.580 continue it with the lgbtq stuff then you see lgbtq pastors and they're not teaching the gospel they're

00:38:55.020 teaching a version of the gospel that makes people happy and brings them pleasure they'll even

00:39:04.680 manipulate and twist and contort the words of the bible to mean something that clearly it doesn't mean

00:39:12.220 and we see countless cases of this where people will change and adjust and tweak and manipulate

00:39:21.080 and coerce and lie and steal if it means that they get to be happy even if just for a moment

00:39:28.640 it also happens in the feminist movement oh women you don't need to be at home raising righteous

00:39:35.220 children you don't need to turn that house into a beautiful loving sanctuary for growth for your husband

00:39:41.260 and your children you should be out in the workforce taking power bringing it to the man taking control

00:39:48.300 making your own money so you don't have to rely on anybody else that's not fulfillment

00:39:53.900 that's temporary joy and vanity at the expense of what actually could have created lasting fulfillment

00:40:01.120 for you so i we could go on and on about examples in society of why that is totally well and reduction of

00:40:08.480 religion or let me just say the shift of religion from a divine being to a creator to individualism is

00:40:16.480 their new religion and it's about me and who i am and living temporarily and and not looking at

00:40:25.120 greater things right and i think the the battle against it is spiritual practices uh serving community

00:40:34.180 serving other individuals something greater than oneself something greater than the individual

00:40:40.580 and the pursuit of like honor truth virtue like these foundational principles and everything i just

00:40:48.640 heard you share none of those are rooted in kind of honor and truth and virtue they're they're rooted in

00:40:55.420 what temporary excitement living today how i look they're all just individualism it's the new religion

00:41:05.400 is is really what it is individuals yeah well and and there's there's another thing you know trying

00:41:12.360 again not to beat a dead horse here that we have to be aware of where do these threats come from or why

00:41:16.780 is it exacerbated four primary places number one the government number two entertainment industry

00:41:24.560 number three academia and number four is the medical community that's where this is all being

00:41:33.520 filtered through government clearly bread bread and circuses right distract get us thinking about

00:41:40.500 things that are important so we can maintain and conserve and consolidate power the entertainment industry

00:41:45.200 i mean we used to have just this like literary or uh musical compos compositions that are um that

00:41:53.880 were like beautiful masterpieces that cause you to reflect even art like look at it look at a modern art

00:42:00.180 museum and tell me that actually lets you reflect and think and consider and ponder your existence in

00:42:06.260 this planet or even illustrate uh lessons violent lessons joyful lessons fulfilling lessons throughout history like

00:42:13.660 you don't find that in modern art even movies there used to be beautiful movies that had an actual message

00:42:22.080 and a moral of the story and now let's just blow shit up and you know cause a scene and make it loud

00:42:28.340 obnoxious and don't get me wrong i like some of that stuff but if it replaces the thoughtfulness that's a problem

00:42:34.300 academia same way you have people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for liberal arts degrees that they're

00:42:40.420 never going to go out and recoup and practicality and actually add value to the world and then the

00:42:45.340 medical community i mean that's easy all we have to do is keep you sick just enough where you'll buy

00:42:51.080 the medicine but not too sick where you'll die yeah because if you die we can't keep selling you the

00:42:56.560 medicine but if we get you sick and we tell you wrong things about how to be healthy and how to live a

00:43:02.200 healthy life and keep your body moving and eat the right fuel then we're able to give you a pill that gives

00:43:07.280 you a miserable existence so it's it's it's rough man and and all made possible by me relinquishing

00:43:15.020 that power to those organizations to tell me what to do because i don't want to think for myself

00:43:19.160 right that and we're just lazy yeah that we're just lazy people we just want to be just entertain me

00:43:30.080 and put a smile on my face yeah now it's wild i don't want to wait for it yeah all right peyton

00:43:38.620 mathis once you start this is a good question actually i like this once you start to get burned

00:43:43.980 out of motivation for improving yourself whether physically or mentally what and how do you gain

00:43:49.820 back that motivation or get back into the physical improvement so it's like you're on the path you're

00:43:55.240 humming and just you get burnt out and you just fall off the wagon kind of so i heard this term over

00:44:02.780 the weekend and it was what was the term vulnerability hangover where where an individual maybe they have

00:44:11.880 a therapy session uh or they disclose a lot of information to a friend or somebody and it's good

00:44:18.860 you need some of that release and you need to do that in right environments to to to the degree that's

00:44:23.280 appropriate but then afterwards you're just exhausted yeah it's like you you put this all out there it

00:44:29.880 conjured up thoughts and your wheels were turning and maybe that triggered some emotions and so like

00:44:34.200 when you have in depth conversations with people it's like super exhausting afterwards yeah yeah so i heard

00:44:41.740 that term and it got me thinking when he asked this question that we we also have something that i would

00:44:46.880 say is a self-help hangover where you've read every book you've listened to every podcast you've been to

00:44:54.260 every conference you've read every email you've signed up for every program and you're just exhausted

00:45:01.300 you're tired you probably feel this is how i felt because i've experienced this when you consume too much

00:45:09.860 self-help you feel inadequate it actually becomes demoralizing because you're not there you're like

00:45:17.420 in the gap you're seeing all the things that you should be you should be at but you're not there so

00:45:22.460 it's just constant focus of where you're not people never talk about that in the danger of self-help

00:45:27.900 they only say hey read this book it's cool you learn how to do a daily routine do this thing it's cool you

00:45:32.340 learn how to be better a better communicator they're great they're great things but if you do too much

00:45:39.460 you're gonna start to see well i don't do a morning routine i don't communicate well i'm not making

00:45:44.420 a hundred thousand dollars a year i'm not in a good relationship i'm not having sex i don't have

00:45:49.200 friends i don't have a hobby and now you just feel horrible about yourself which might be kind of the

00:45:55.360 point of the self-help industry in some ways which is weird to say because i'm part of it yeah so i say

00:46:03.080 that because you need to detox from it a little bit and you need to bring

00:46:07.120 fun into your life that's even hard for you could you could you sense my

00:46:12.880 difficulty even saying that because i'm not that kind of person

00:46:16.480 but you should instead of reading a self-help book read a fictional book

00:46:21.880 instead of going to the conference go to the beach

00:46:26.840 instead of having that deep conversation with your wife tonight or maybe a friend

00:46:32.700 have a fun playful conversation instead of doing the budget to the nth degree

00:46:39.460 set some money aside and say hey we've got a thousand dollars that we can spend this month

00:46:43.600 on whatever we want no constraints

00:46:45.840 and just bring and infuse a little bit of fun and enthusiasm and excitement maybe there's something new

00:46:53.720 that you want to do ask your kids hey what do you guys want to do like it's your weekend what do you

00:46:58.540 guys want to do let's make it happen and just have fun stop taking and you're look as a serious person

00:47:07.540 myself i am never at the risk of having too much fun where i won't always come back to being more

00:47:14.500 serious that's not a thing for me yeah so some people worry about oh what if i have too much fun and

00:47:19.520 then i know you won't if you're a serious person it would almost be impossible for you to do that

00:47:25.320 but you do in a way which sounds a bit ironic have to force yourself to have some fun and you you can

00:47:32.360 do that for a little while and infuse some of that fun and then you can go back to your self-help and

00:47:36.240 like that's fine it will still be there i promise yeah yeah i like it i mean we payton we

00:47:44.160 both of us read this book gap in the gain and and the kind of the premise of that book is like

00:47:50.140 operate and and stay present to the gain you know and and stop oh once i accomplish these goals once i

00:47:59.380 do this then then then it's like awesome future state of fulfillment when reality i think there's a lot

00:48:06.840 that we can be today we can have and i really do believe this you can have an amazing day today

00:48:14.440 but but far too often we're operating that it's someday and today i'll grind today i'll be miserable

00:48:24.120 for the sake of tomorrow when reality we could be present grateful and and look at the growth that

00:48:31.420 we're having and and be fulfilled today and and maybe that's part of this focus here is the

00:48:36.920 importance of presence of not where you want to be but where you are yeah you know it's it's funny

00:48:43.780 kip we're on the back of our men's forge event that we did several weeks ago and uh it it was a great

00:48:51.800 event we got a lot more rain than i thought we would so we had to change some of the activities

00:48:55.200 and we had some rain one morning where we couldn't get out and i think it was the ropes course or

00:49:00.060 so oh no it was um what we're gonna do it was uh human foosball is what we're gonna do and we

00:49:06.820 couldn't do it so we had to bring everything indoors and as you know because you've done

00:49:10.000 enough events with us we always do an after action review after events so we get feedback from the

00:49:16.060 guys what do they like least what do they like most and just try to make next year's event even that

00:49:22.000 much better so instead of doing the outdoor activity we decided to bring it indoors and we had

00:49:28.620 on the fly did a cornhole tournament and a pickleball tournament in this big meeting hall they

00:49:34.000 had and as we were going through the after action reviews one of the questions is what do you like

00:49:39.480 the most and that was i think it was either number one or number two and i thought to myself at first

00:49:46.500 i'm like what the hell i bring in all these speakers we've got these amazing activities we've got

00:49:51.380 these lessons we've got these resources and you guys like pickleball and cornhole yeah but it got

00:49:57.760 me thinking this is what we're talking about we just want to have a little bit of fun we want to be able

00:50:04.040 to connect with people we want to find some happiness and joy in our lives and it doesn't always need to

00:50:09.140 be so serious it was yeah it's pretty telling and i don't know why this resonates with me

00:50:15.800 but sometimes the fun thing is the is the thing that got forced upon you that you pivoted to

00:50:23.020 because you had no other choice i don't know why but there's an element of fun in it right horrible

00:50:29.360 weather outside we're just going to do this instead there's this there's a sense of fun and excitement

00:50:34.420 to those kind of things that are unplanned that are part of just going along with the circumstances

00:50:41.640 and the hardships that you're placed with this is why if we look back at our memory as children

00:50:47.160 some of the most memorable things were not fun at the time they were the miserable things it was the

00:50:54.800 poor christmas when no one had a gift it was the rainy camp trip yeah it was the miserable camp trip

00:51:01.560 why because there's excitement in it there's there's a sense of unreasonableness with it that just

00:51:07.760 brings you alive you know you know what i think it is actually i think i think you're right but i

00:51:13.520 think it's just one crucial little element at least it is for me yeah no expectations

00:51:19.900 ah yeah i like that because think about it like because it's a clean slate i didn't know it was

00:51:26.440 coming that's it you didn't know like here's an example let's say you're going to go to a movie

00:51:31.100 like i went to a movie last night and it was um thunderbolts it's the new like

00:51:36.400 uh marvel movie is actually pretty good but if i was really excited about it like really and i

00:51:45.060 wasn't but if i was really really excited to see that movie would it have met my expectation or let

00:51:52.100 me down it probably would have let me down like how many movies have we been to where we're like

00:51:56.980 oh man that was i thought it was gonna be so much better because you had an expectation of what it

00:52:02.300 should have been yeah but let's say i got to the movie theater and they said oh i'm sorry we're

00:52:06.860 sold out for that show but i have a ticket for this show instead and i'd never seen a preview for it

00:52:12.980 don't know what it's about the book yeah no and i show up and i'm like you know what that was

00:52:19.620 actually pretty good it was pretty interesting or you see this in the dating space you know you have

00:52:23.980 these high expectations of like this has got to be my future wife and this has to be the one

00:52:28.520 and or i gotta get laid or whatever whatever expectation you have for the date and you're

00:52:32.700 like oh and you feel so deflated rather than just showing up and having fun and not having an

00:52:39.020 expectation and just enjoying the moment so i think it's the expectations that we place on ourselves

00:52:46.100 and our environment that creates disappointment yeah now you should have standards for yourself

00:52:53.760 but outside of that i'm trying to let go of expectations of myself and others i'm going to

00:53:00.320 perform to the standard and i'm going to let the chips fall where they may yeah and here's the key

00:53:05.540 thing and you just said it most of the expectations that disrupt us they're the expectations that we have

00:53:12.140 on others which are outside of your control anyway but yet we have this opinion of way the way it

00:53:18.720 should look like right and when it when it's not met then we have an upset well but even the

00:53:23.960 expectations of yourself but the problem with having expectations of yourself is that there's so many

00:53:29.920 variables that are beyond your control so you might say you know what i'm going to lose 40 pounds this

00:53:38.100 month and i'm going to start training for a bodybuilding a body physique bodybuilding competition

00:53:44.580 and you're doing really well and you're working hard and you you are ready to accomplish your goal

00:53:52.440 and then you're driving down the road and somebody t-bones you and you end up

00:53:58.100 hurting yourself breaking a leg maybe like maybe being paralyzed i mean there's things that happen

00:54:04.660 and now all of your identity was wrapped up on the expectation that you were going to compete and

00:54:11.020 perform and win and now you can't yeah and so you're deflated when really the idea was hey that's

00:54:22.240 what i'm working towards but right since i know that's where i'm going let me reverse engineer and

00:54:26.960 now i'm just going to perform to the standard and that's the win so me eating correctly in order to

00:54:32.380 compete is the win when i'm tempted to gorge on anything and everything or me going to the gym when i

00:54:37.640 don't feel like it that's the win those are the standards versus the expectations yeah yeah absolutely

00:54:45.320 those are all our questions from facebook cool uh i've got a couple others here i think we have

00:54:51.360 time for a couple more so this one came these come from uh came from instagram um and i'll pull

00:54:57.320 out a couple just for the sake of time number one is how can i get my step kids to listen to me

00:55:02.420 more i'm gonna get my step kids to listen to me more i don't have step kids so i'm speaking a

00:55:09.360 little bit out of ignorance so i'm gonna probably default to you on this one kit but yeah if i can

00:55:14.420 just give one word on this it would be because it's the same with your kids is they have to trust you

00:55:20.680 and if that's a requirement then what is the prerequisite for trust like you and know you care about

00:55:30.400 them yeah yeah that's spot on i use this triangle called the triangle of influence right and and by

00:55:39.640 the way i think this principle is transcendent right step kids kids employees anybody and kind of goes

00:55:46.060 back to the question earlier around politics and playing the game and you start from the bottom of

00:55:50.800 this triangle at the very bottom is your mindset towards them because if you see your step kids as

00:55:59.280 these brats that you have to help raise and you don't like them everything else that you stack on

00:56:05.260 top of that is just going to be seen through it's manipulation it's lies it's coercion it's all yucky

00:56:10.600 right so get present do you love them do you see them for the amazing humans they are

00:56:16.900 and you got to believe it and then second have a relationship with them spend time with them invest

00:56:26.240 time with them here's the part that often people overlook have a relationship with those of

00:56:31.500 influence with them super hard to influence your teenage boy when his teenage buddies think you're

00:56:38.400 a jerk a lot easier when you're the cool dad as well so have a relationship with those of influence

00:56:44.920 this is interesting from a parenting perspective especially with step kids you and mom are fighting

00:56:52.140 you don't think that it affects your ability to influence the step kids absolutely you guys are

00:56:58.660 inviting them to choose sides if you're not in a good relationship with mom what were you gonna say

00:57:03.580 another one i mean that's i agree with that or another one is you talk poorly about their father

00:57:11.280 and you have animosity towards their father who do you think they're gonna pick yeah they're choosing

00:57:16.600 sides so you got to have a good relationship with everybody right that's in a position of influence

00:57:21.720 past relationships second is you got to learn from them what's going on in the world what's

00:57:32.840 important to them in corporate america i'll use the term do you understand their needs challenges and

00:57:39.840 goals do you know what they're dealing with what their top stresses are and then after all that on the

00:57:47.760 top of it is now you're in a position to coach and teach but if you jump to coaching and teaching

00:57:53.300 before doing those things then you're going to coach because well he doesn't understand me he doesn't

00:57:59.060 know what's going on in my life yeah that's why you learn first before you coach you get the trust and

00:58:04.700 the care through having an established relationship and you do that really well by seeing them

00:58:09.540 there's there's one other thing too i think that underpins a lot of this that i've seen a lot of

00:58:17.740 men overlook and that's consistency yeah that's true because all that consistently yeah it's really

00:58:24.740 easy in the moment to be like oh i need my kids to do something or my step kids to do something so

00:58:29.040 i'm gonna like take interest in them and like figure out what yeah what they're like sure

00:58:34.040 start my mad scramble manipulation campaign yeah totally or to do it for a little while and then

00:58:40.840 you start getting what you want out of them the performance that you're looking for the influence

00:58:44.740 that you'd like to have and then you forget about doing all of these things on a consistent or regular

00:58:49.400 basis or one thing i've even noticed with my kids is when they're straight in the relationship

00:58:55.800 um i i make the changes that i need to make and then i get impatient i'm like well i'm doing all

00:59:05.380 the things like i'm doing all the trifecta of influence i'm caring about them i'm learning from

00:59:10.260 them i'm investing in them i'm investing bro you've been doing it for a week they've been mad at you

00:59:14.720 for two years yeah or guys will say this in relationships they're like you know i'm not i'm never

00:59:20.100 physically intimate with my wife i'm not getting played in our relationship the door yesterday yeah it's

00:59:25.620 like i don't understand i took her out last night i bought her some flowers i'm like dude

00:59:30.780 you've been a jerk for three years yeah let it work it will but you gotta let it work a little bit yeah

00:59:39.820 so have the fortitude to to continually do what we're talking about doing and i and i think it as

00:59:45.220 and coaching can come across as a withdrawal right i think it was stephen covey that used the

00:59:49.920 the the example of an emotional bank account you know so what deposits are you constantly

00:59:55.540 putting in there and making sure they have a surplus balance before you take anything out

00:59:59.820 um so that this might be a good way of looking at it it is it that that one's always been

01:00:06.000 interesting to me i get the and it's an analogy it's not perfect right so i get it still seems

01:00:10.560 sometimes it comes across it has two transactional yeah yeah because you'll even hear people you need

01:00:15.740 to have seven good interactions for every one and then what are you doing keeping score

01:00:20.880 yeah yeah it's yucky before you like yeah so yeah again it's just not perfect just take it

01:00:26.780 from the spirit it's intended totally and that's why i like that influence triangle because like at

01:00:31.340 the bottom of it is not have a problem with them like let go yeah and and by the way the the upset that

01:00:41.040 you have with them it's more about you than them anyway if you're honest with yourself if you're

01:00:47.500 truly self-aware you know when when i've had difficult teenage sons like my my my son that's

01:00:54.020 a stepson when he was difficult you think my upset with him had to do with him no it had to do more

01:01:01.440 about what how he made me look and most people won't want to admit that because it's like no no it's

01:01:08.840 what i want best for him and like okay but you're emotionally charged as though it's an offense on you

01:01:13.160 why because you you feel it as an attack on your ego you're afraid of your reputation it's it's more

01:01:21.860 trust me it's more than just wanting what's best for your kid it you've made it about you and you need

01:01:27.440 to clean that shit up so you can see them the way you should well and and why you also have to ask

01:01:34.660 yourself why why do you care so much about how others perceive you why are you worried about what

01:01:46.620 what your neighbor thinks of you and your family dynamic because maybe you know you're not doing

01:01:53.240 what you need to do within the walls of your home yeah and so instead of validating yourself

01:01:58.680 you're looking for other people to validate you if we have this perfect ideal vision of what this

01:02:04.080 is supposed to look like then everybody will see oh ryan's got this figured out yeah and if i have

01:02:10.480 a wayward kid i don't want to take accountability for that you're a horrible father it's the it's the

01:02:15.460 kid that's it's his fault yeah yeah yeah well cool well we had some good questions today let's uh let's

01:02:20.780 wrap it up kip yeah i mean a couple calls to action um the men's forge is open i know that's a year

01:02:26.760 from now but i'm assuming you're going to sell out fairly quick so to look at that event to learn more

01:02:31.900 and to register that's themensforge.com of course you can connect with mickler on x and instagram

01:02:38.840 at ryan mickler and then i think overall just order of man.com for all things what's happening

01:02:44.400 on the podcast blog posts get published up there as well as when we're open for enrollment for the

01:02:49.920 iron council and many things are happening within the community yeah we just put a new resource before

01:02:56.540 i say what it is i want to make sure it's up let me look here

01:03:00.920 yeah so if you go to order of man.com bookshelf i've updated about 20 to 25 books that i think all

01:03:13.800 men ought to consider reading so the first segment is what we're currently reading so that one's got

01:03:19.860 let them by mel robbins we've talked about the man the moment demands the gap in the gate and

01:03:23.740 miracle morning by hal elrod that's what i'm currently reading but then we have the top

01:03:28.420 five books on masculinity top five books on self-mastery top five books for fathers top

01:03:33.500 five and philosophy so if you're looking for good books that i've read personally that i can

01:03:39.860 give my little stamp of approval if you needed it there it is right there oh that's great i love that

01:03:46.560 so that's order of man.com bookshelf excellent okay all right guys great questions today obviously

01:03:54.180 we always have more work to do on ourselves and our families and communities and the places that

01:03:58.060 we're trying to serve um don't burn yourself out like we talked about i think that's one that really

01:04:02.540 stood out to me today because i've been there and it's horrible and and i will say by the way when

01:04:08.560 when you take that little detox from self-help you're not actually losing ground because i'm not

01:04:14.060 telling you to be a lazy sack of crap i'm telling you to do other things that are still good and

01:04:20.060 still wholesome and recreational and fun and virtuous but just a different pace or a different

01:04:25.380 tempo that's all i'm saying and i promise you when you come back into that self-development space

01:04:31.980 you'll actually be better because you'll be well-rounded you'll have new ideas and perspectives

01:04:36.940 you hadn't considered before and you'll just be a more enjoyable person

01:04:40.460 so that's what we've got for you guys we'll be back on friday until then go out there take action

01:04:46.680 and become the man you are meant to be

01:04:48.760 thank you for listening to the order of man podcast you're ready to take charge of your life

01:04:56.860 and be more of the man you were meant to be we invite you to join the order at order of man.com

01:05:02.460 you

Order of Man - May 21, 2025

Self-Help Hangover, Jumpstarting Motivation, and The Crisis of Meaning ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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