Order of Man - Self-Talk and Supporting Spouses ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal

00:00:02.540 is going to waste a lot of time running around

00:00:05.000 shouting that he has been robbed.

00:00:07.000 The fact is that most putts don't drop.

00:00:09.340 Most beef is tough.

00:00:10.700 Most children grow up just to be like people

00:00:13.040 and most successful marriages

00:00:14.560 require a high degree of mutual tolerance

00:00:16.940 and most jobs are more full of doll than otherwise.

00:00:21.200 Life is like an old time rail journey.

00:00:24.280 Delays, sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders and jolts

00:00:28.700 and dispersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas

00:00:32.140 and thrilling bursts of speed.

00:00:34.100 The trick is to thank the Lord for letting you have the ride.

00:00:37.960 You're a man of action.

00:00:39.640 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:41.100 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:44.020 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:47.400 Every time.

00:00:48.500 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:50.800 Rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:53.540 This is your life.

00:00:54.620 This is who you are.

00:00:56.060 This is who you will become.

00:00:57.340 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:00.800 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:05.000 Rain, first timer on the AMA, sir.

00:01:07.520 How you doing?

00:01:08.460 Doing good.

00:01:09.480 Long time listener, first time caller.

00:01:12.460 That's perfect, dude.

00:01:14.000 Well, as everyone knows, I think last week

00:01:16.740 I mentioned Ryan's on an Africa hunt with M42 Adventures.

00:01:23.060 You can learn more, m42adventures.com.

00:01:25.780 Um, and he's not back yet.

00:01:28.040 So we get a run, uh, without Ryan another week.

00:01:31.060 And, uh, Ryan pinged Dwayne and said, Hey, Dwayne, you have a great background.

00:01:35.960 Uh, let's, and you got a good mic set up.

00:01:38.500 So let's join the podcast.

00:01:39.920 If you guys are curious what I'm talking about, you can join us on YouTube.

00:01:43.000 That's youtube.com slash order of man.

00:01:46.120 If you want to connect with us there.

00:01:48.420 Um, so let's hop into this.

00:01:50.180 Dwayne, you, you mentioned that you didn't have a headline.

00:01:52.180 I, I, I have not really a headline this week, more of a, I don't know, just the thought,

00:01:57.620 uh, that has been crossing my mind.

00:01:59.740 And it's, and I read, I read it somewhere and I can't remember where I read it.

00:02:04.300 I'm so horrible, but I wrote down my version of it and, and it goes like this.

00:02:09.300 It says, if you cannot explain why you believe something, then perhaps you don't even believe

00:02:15.480 it, but it's just something that you've chosen to outsource to a tribe that you belong to,

00:02:20.980 or actually to someone else.

00:02:24.060 And that resonated with me primarily just because in society, especially during a political season,

00:02:31.260 how opinionated we all are around things.

00:02:35.140 And we share our thoughts and our opinions.

00:02:37.660 We get on soapboxes like it's truth, but in essence, it's just regurgitated information

00:02:43.980 that you got somewhere else and you actually aren't in the know.

00:02:48.700 And so a challenge for me, as I think about this is how many things am I just assuming

00:02:55.220 that I read that is truth and I'm not connected close enough to it.

00:03:00.380 I actually don't know.

00:03:01.840 And we can even start looking at areas, not just in social circles, but you can look from

00:03:07.820 a leadership perspective.

00:03:08.860 How often does a leader see something?

00:03:11.740 And they have an indicator and they go, oh, the problem must be X, Y, Z without asking,

00:03:18.280 without digging in, without getting to know, without critical thinking.

00:03:21.880 And we just jump to judgments and assumptions all the time.

00:03:27.720 And so, I don't know, maybe this is just a call out to be a little bit slow to judge,

00:03:33.920 critically think, and realize that information, perception, man, there's so much more to things

00:03:41.160 than probably what we give credit to.

00:03:44.900 Totally.

00:03:45.560 I think that's really important in this season we are in today is to make sure that you're

00:03:50.480 stopping and thinking about it.

00:03:52.580 I always assume positive intent from both sides, right?

00:03:56.660 Like whether you're on the left or the right, or you were in the wrong or something, you know,

00:04:00.740 got reported at work, whatever that might be.

00:04:03.300 Assume the positive intent.

00:04:04.660 I'm sure they were trying their best.

00:04:07.320 Yeah.

00:04:07.940 Is it enough?

00:04:08.960 That's a different conversation.

00:04:10.240 It isn't what we believe that they should be doing.

00:04:12.960 But I think if you go into something and assuming a positive intent, then you have a good perspective

00:04:18.400 on that.

00:04:19.020 And then you can ask clarifying questions from them.

00:04:22.180 Well, and this is the power of taking ownership because that's what ownership kind of is.

00:04:27.400 It's, it's not assuming positive intent per se, but it's assuming that the judgment or

00:04:33.980 the issue is not over there, but it's probably with you, which kind of implies that positive

00:04:40.620 intent and negative intent on you, right?

00:04:44.140 And it forces us.

00:04:45.320 And I had a rant on the socials like last week around this is if we're not, if we're going

00:04:51.840 to take on ownership around something, if you can't tell me exactly where you're taking

00:04:57.780 responsibility for, you're not taking ownership.

00:05:00.540 You're just raising the, uh, the, the flag of, Hey, I'm taking ownership over here.

00:05:06.520 Right.

00:05:07.580 But if you can't say, Hey, actually it's this particular area.

00:05:10.860 This is what I need to do.

00:05:11.920 This is where I went wrong.

00:05:13.360 You're not taking ownership yet.

00:05:14.680 And so make sure you're critically thinking enough to identify the pivot that you would make.

00:05:20.200 If you can't say what the pivot is, you're not taking ownership in the grand scheme of

00:05:24.080 things.

00:05:24.920 It reminds me of those leaders that are always like, Oh, I'm such a servant leader.

00:05:29.060 And you're like, I don't think you should, you shouldn't have to say it.

00:05:31.900 Right.

00:05:32.100 Like we know you're being, you're taking extreme ownership when you're like, Hey, we're going

00:05:35.700 to fix these things.

00:05:36.480 And this is what we're going to work on.

00:05:38.080 We feel like, Oh, it's all my fault.

00:05:40.240 I'm such a martyr.

00:05:41.580 Like, all right guys, let's, let's move on.

00:05:43.720 And let's actually focus on something that's going to move the needle forward instead of like pointing

00:05:48.160 fingers for sure.

00:05:48.980 Yeah, totally.

00:05:49.800 Which is sometimes that martyr approach is just another way of looking good.

00:05:53.000 Right.

00:05:53.360 And taking credit for something.

00:05:54.680 Yeah.

00:05:55.240 Just in a negative way.

00:05:56.600 Yeah.

00:05:57.060 All right.

00:05:57.600 So we're going to field questions from the iron council.

00:06:00.340 That's our exclusive brotherhood to learn more about the IC go to order man.com slash iron

00:06:04.700 council.

00:06:06.060 Enrollment's going to open for the iron council.

00:06:08.640 Is it next month already?

00:06:10.440 I believe so.

00:06:11.300 Yeah, it is already.

00:06:12.340 Yeah.

00:06:12.600 Next month.

00:06:13.760 So keep in mind that enrollment will open in roughly about a month or so.

00:06:18.980 To learn more though, go to that website to find out more.

00:06:21.920 I had one question, Dwayne, that you didn't see.

00:06:24.820 That's actually from last week that I wanted to cover from the foundry before we get into

00:06:28.640 the questions that we asked the men earlier today is by Joe Myers.

00:06:33.480 He says, what advice would you give a young man seeking knowledge on how to be a man in a time

00:06:39.420 when there are so many contradictory definitions of what being a man is?

00:06:44.300 And there are several online influencers saying that they have the answer and the way towards

00:06:51.320 being a man.

00:06:51.920 I asked not as an attack on the market of men helping men be men, but as a dad that was placed

00:06:59.160 in a position of his daughter's boyfriend.

00:07:01.800 Well, he is her ex now, unfortunately, didn't have any male influences in their life until

00:07:06.500 he started trade work.

00:07:10.860 So what's your thoughts, sir?

00:07:12.980 Yeah.

00:07:14.760 Did you say that came from the order of man group?

00:07:18.100 Yeah, it came from the foundry.

00:07:19.440 One of the guys in the iron council.

00:07:21.300 Got it.

00:07:22.000 Well, I would say that they're on the right path is joining other men in the fight, in

00:07:26.180 the battle to kind of bounce that off each other.

00:07:29.640 I find a lot of men that are in the iron council have a background where they need to see somebody

00:07:35.760 else and like kind of a strong leadership authority position and have a good example of what being

00:07:42.020 a man looks like because they might not have had that growing up.

00:07:44.780 And a lot of men were kind of wounded by their father figure, wherever that might be, and

00:07:50.240 they're looking for just a better example of it.

00:07:53.140 So I think that's a good start is to get around other men and identify what they like about it

00:07:58.440 and then be able to assess that and say, like, is this what I consider to be a positive trait?

00:08:04.000 Or is this something that is, you know, detracting from masculinity overall?

00:08:10.440 Totally.

00:08:10.880 Yeah.

00:08:11.280 Not surprising, right?

00:08:12.360 The answer is model it, right?

00:08:14.540 Be the model for people to see and choose to be, right?

00:08:18.100 So Joe, obviously you're a male figure in this boy's life.

00:08:22.100 And so the best way to have him seek knowledge on being a man is you and how you're showing up

00:08:29.420 as a man.

00:08:31.060 And it's interesting, we talk about this sometimes in the iron council where guys will talk about how

00:08:38.400 they're going to make pivots, right?

00:08:40.380 On a battle plan and, and try to show up more powerfully as a husband or whatever.

00:08:44.720 And one thing that they'll do is they'll do it silently.

00:08:48.180 Like, oh, I'm going to make all these adjustments, but I'm not going to tell my wife what I'm working

00:08:51.960 on.

00:08:52.260 I'm not going to let her know.

00:08:53.620 Like, I'm just going to do it and hope that people notice.

00:08:56.340 And, and I actually disagree.

00:08:59.340 I think in most cases, and we got to be careful here because the flip side of this, you go run

00:09:04.000 in your mouth about all the things you're going to do and then you never do them.

00:09:07.560 Assuming that we have integrity and we're actually going to follow through on what we're doing.

00:09:12.440 There's power in enlisting people.

00:09:15.740 Looking for opportunities to express what you're about, what's important to you and not being silent

00:09:22.020 about it, right?

00:09:23.040 So Joe, not only do you need a model, what a man looks like to this young man, but you need to take

00:09:29.940 advantage of the opportunities to enlist him in it, to enroll him about what it's like to be a man.

00:09:36.280 Look for those little opportunities of, oh, why this is so important.

00:09:39.940 And look for those lessons of coaching whenever you can, not from a perspective of, of, of preaching,

00:09:46.100 but mostly from a perspective of sharing so he can consider it for himself.

00:09:51.460 And I think those, obviously those principles of influence and impact are transcendent beyond

00:09:57.020 this conversation of just a young man trying to figure out what it is to be a man.

00:10:02.480 Well, and that's a great opportunity.

00:10:04.380 Like you mentioned is bringing him along the journey.

00:10:06.900 There might be opportunities to go out and have outings and, you know, kind of share those

00:10:12.320 experiences with him.

00:10:13.540 Like if you, if you are going to the jujitsu gym offer, right?

00:10:18.100 Like, Hey, come with me, right?

00:10:19.440 Like see what it's like to live a life in the day of a man that's actually getting after

00:10:24.160 it.

00:10:24.360 Right.

00:10:24.620 And like share some of those hardships, right?

00:10:26.900 Yeah.

00:10:27.120 And then after you're done, tell him, why do you do it?

00:10:30.280 What's the benefit you get out of it?

00:10:31.800 Right.

00:10:32.080 And so they can see the bigger picture.

00:10:33.880 Exactly.

00:10:34.460 Good call.

00:10:34.780 Good call.

00:10:35.460 All right.

00:10:36.280 Ryan, uh, partain.

00:10:38.880 How have your personal views of what it means to protect, provide, and preside change since you

00:10:45.460 started this journey with order of man.

00:10:48.200 And I, I just want to call out in case you guys haven't looked at the logo or anything,

00:10:52.640 right in the logo, order of man logo, you'll see the words protect, provide, and preside.

00:10:58.100 It's obviously a foundation of Ryan's book, you know, sovereignty and another, a number

00:11:02.780 of things.

00:11:03.120 And it's things that we use as somewhat of a framework, uh, within the iron council.

00:11:07.620 So with that said, uh, Dwayne, what's your thoughts?

00:11:10.740 Yeah, those are the three core tenants that we really focus on.

00:11:13.660 And I would say that since being in the order of man in the iron council, I've been in for

00:11:17.540 five years.

00:11:18.480 I've just gotten a deeper understanding and appreciation for each of those words.

00:11:22.540 Like initially it's like, Oh, I want to be, I want to have accountability and be around

00:11:26.280 a band of brothers that are working on the same things.

00:11:28.960 You could do that in a lot of areas of life, right?

00:11:31.060 You could be, um, at work or, you know, any one of your hobbies, but this is more holistic.

00:11:36.700 So it's been really interesting on a regular basis.

00:11:39.860 We'll go on a monthly basis and we'll have these topics and we'll just dig deeper into

00:11:44.180 that meaning and we'll share amongst everybody else, what it looks like for each one of us.

00:11:50.000 And I figure that brings those different unique perspectives.

00:11:53.500 Obviously we're all men in this, but you have men from all over the world and they're really

00:11:57.400 sharing some of their backgrounds and their insights.

00:11:59.980 And I've really loved to go deeper into these and, you know, really dissect what it means

00:12:05.280 to preside, not boss, right?

00:12:07.840 Like not be authoritative and like really demanding, but it's just being there and being that protector

00:12:13.680 for your family is kind of like, once you figure out all three of those, they really unlock a

00:12:19.300 kind of a next level of masculinity that I love.

00:12:22.260 Yeah.

00:12:23.520 Yeah.

00:12:24.000 I think for me, I think at first glance, when I looked at protect and provide, I went with

00:12:30.960 physically protect, provide a living.

00:12:34.780 And to your point, you started getting of providing a spiritual refuge, providing emotional safety,

00:12:43.480 right?

00:12:44.540 And we start looking at these bigger, deeper elements, uh, that makes us actually bigger men.

00:12:49.900 And, and, and I agree with you, Dwayne, probably the biggest pivot.

00:12:53.660 And, and, and I bring it up primarily just because so many guys get sideways with preside.

00:13:00.220 In fact, I met with a men's group, um, up in Ogden, Utah, geez, it's probably been about

00:13:05.940 two weeks ago.

00:13:06.800 And this was the question, which was talk to about, talk to us about preside.

00:13:12.700 Because when we hear that we immediately get on our heels of, oh my gosh, this is command and

00:13:19.220 control, this is the patriarchy, you know, in a negative way, it's negative leadership.

00:13:25.000 It's all this horrible stuff that they perceive.

00:13:28.240 And, and I think what they perceive or what some might hear when they hear that word is

00:13:33.280 poor leadership.

00:13:35.320 Well, leadership is not good or bad, but it can be done poorly.

00:13:39.820 People in authority often will practice unrighteous dominion.

00:13:43.660 That is super, that's part of what it means to be human.

00:13:46.480 You know, we have all these quotes around people with authority and power practicing it

00:13:51.400 unrighteously.

00:13:52.580 Preside is no different.

00:13:54.560 And, and for me, that definition is around guidance and direction, but not control.

00:14:01.020 And if, and I would suggest it's guidance and direction in almost all areas.

00:14:08.460 It doesn't mean we do all the work, but are we ensuring everything is buttoned up?

00:14:13.740 And for me, if I outsource something and I just push it off and I'm not connected to

00:14:21.980 it, it actually means I'm also not caring and showing it powerfully.

00:14:26.400 But if it's something really important to me, I'm presiding over it.

00:14:31.620 And that doesn't mean controlling, right?

00:14:34.060 Or anything else.

00:14:35.080 It means I'm looking over to make sure that I'm involved, that I'm in the know so I can

00:14:40.460 help, so I can support.

00:14:41.720 And that's, that was probably one of the bigger definitions that I think some guys struggle

00:14:47.120 with, at least when they hear those, those three words.

00:14:51.100 It kind of reminds me of what we were talking about earlier of having that extreme ownership

00:14:54.900 and kind of the buck stops here with your family or with whatever you're doing is you

00:14:59.460 kind of preside over it.

00:15:00.660 But like you mentioned, you don't necessarily have to be the one doing the thing, but making

00:15:05.340 sure that it got done for the family.

00:15:07.020 Yeah.

00:15:07.420 Yeah.

00:15:07.900 And how many guys are like, you know, not to put you on the spot, Dwayne, but a natural

00:15:12.800 tendency that most people will struggle with is like the kids and the household and their

00:15:18.080 schooling.

00:15:18.980 I have no idea.

00:15:20.480 Like it's kind of like, there's so many memes about how funny it is that you would, how dare

00:15:26.560 you ever ask a dad what your kid's schedule is or any of that stuff.

00:15:30.220 And it's like, it shouldn't be that way.

00:15:32.720 It really shouldn't.

00:15:33.720 Not if we genuinely care and we need to level up and make sure that we're showing up in a

00:15:39.840 way that's powerful to serve and benefit our, our families.

00:15:43.620 And, and I think far too often we've outsourced a great many deal of our responsibilities to

00:15:48.320 someone else.

00:15:49.620 Yeah.

00:15:50.060 I mean, look at the TV dad, right? 0.69

00:15:52.080 Like a typical TV dad is a goof and he's absent-minded and he's, you know, doing all sorts of 0.89

00:15:57.820 things. 0.71

00:15:58.000 I think it's a modern family, like the Phil Dumphy.

00:16:00.860 And you're like, that's, that's not like the best way to show up for your family, right?

00:16:05.920 Like that's, he's clearly the goofball in his group and it's, you know, working on these

00:16:10.720 principles, I think will really change how that happens in your family for sure.

00:16:15.020 Yeah, for sure.

00:16:16.740 Jimmy Hellwood, fastest way to get out of the headspace of self-hatred when your mind starts

00:16:24.280 heading South.

00:16:28.000 Like man, first, first step, the hatred word really stood out to me.

00:16:32.640 Like, it's not like, you know, you're having a bad day.

00:16:35.860 It was like, man, I hate myself.

00:16:38.140 Gotta stop with that language.

00:16:39.700 Like you're definitely what you say to yourself over and over.

00:16:43.860 Like the words are powerful, even when you say them to yourself.

00:16:46.520 So I would say step one is saying like, I'm a, I'm a child of God.

00:16:50.960 I'm amazing.

00:16:52.080 I got up today.

00:16:53.220 I did all these things.

00:16:54.440 Like actually check off all the good things that are happening in your life and then say

00:16:59.260 like, oh, there's some stuff that you can focus on for sure.

00:17:01.840 But I would say like, definitely get out of the mindset of saying hatred in general.

00:17:06.820 Like that's, that's not a good way to treat anybody.

00:17:11.160 Could you imagine if I was like, I hate Kip?

00:17:14.220 That's, those are strong words, right?

00:17:16.240 Like you wouldn't say that to somebody else, probably.

00:17:19.020 So you shouldn't say that to yourself.

00:17:21.180 And I would say stack the wins.

00:17:22.800 That's probably the biggest one is look at the, the gain.

00:17:26.660 Like look at all the good things that are happening in your life, even if they're small,

00:17:31.500 right?

00:17:31.840 Like they're definitely, we live in the United States.

00:17:34.900 We're very blessed, you know, compared to a lot of other people.

00:17:39.440 Like you have a roof, you have shelter.

00:17:41.500 That's a good win.

00:17:42.420 Like you're getting started.

00:17:43.740 You have your food, you know, you can go to the gym, like start sacking those wins,

00:17:48.260 I think is the best place to start.

00:17:50.360 And then you'll start feeling more confident about yourself.

00:17:53.780 Dude, I'm sure you messed up somewhere.

00:17:56.520 Everybody has, I have specifically, but it's a mistake and it's something that you're going

00:18:01.760 to correct and move forward on.

00:18:03.180 So it's not, yeah, just stop.

00:18:05.320 Don't say hate, I think.

00:18:07.540 Yeah.

00:18:07.980 I love, yeah.

00:18:09.620 You know, I, I wrote down my thoughts around this when I heard this question, cause I didn't

00:18:14.720 want to, man, I just didn't want to miss something.

00:18:17.780 Right.

00:18:18.000 Because this is Jimmy, this is huge, right?

00:18:20.700 Like this.

00:18:21.460 Let me first give you props.

00:18:23.620 Number one is awareness.

00:18:27.400 So you're already on the path.

00:18:29.620 Most people walk around pissed off, angry, blaming how they feel on everyone else and

00:18:35.860 taking zero accountability for their own, even self-talk.

00:18:39.620 So the fact that you've become aware of it, you know, that it's happening.

00:18:44.480 That's step number one.

00:18:46.280 I think step number two, have some compassion and, and I'm going to maybe come across a little

00:18:53.700 judgmental on you, Jimmy, as a projection of what I do.

00:18:57.360 The more judgmental I am on other people increases the judgment that I put on myself.

00:19:04.940 So a great way to practice empathy for yourself is to practice empathy period.

00:19:11.760 And so look for those areas to have some self-compassion and empathy for everybody, including yourself.

00:19:19.880 Then I'd say you should dispute those negative thoughts.

00:19:23.640 You should be challenging them.

00:19:25.180 Some of the times when I'm upset and I'm beating myself up, all I have to do is think through

00:19:31.040 it and go, actually this event occurred.

00:19:33.840 Did it really mean that? 1.00

00:19:35.400 Does it really mean I'm a complete moron? 0.98

00:19:38.560 No, I'm actually a fairly capable individual. 0.98

00:19:41.360 That's not true.

00:19:43.200 And, and some would even say that you should know where that is coming from.

00:19:50.220 Now that's a little bit more on the deep work side, but most stories that we have about

00:19:56.260 ourself, you've formulated that self-hate story probably years and years and years ago.

00:20:04.220 And this is a constant confirmation bias that it's true.

00:20:10.400 And so, and, and I want to be really clear, at least Jimmy, I'm not a registered psychiatrist

00:20:15.720 and all that jazz, which I love because I get to say whatever I want.

00:20:20.520 Whether you think it's true or not, it's a different story.

00:20:22.900 But I would suggest that that negative self-talk that you probably formulated, it's, you know,

00:20:32.060 you're carrying it forward.

00:20:33.120 And I would suggest it's not going away.

00:20:36.300 That's it.

00:20:39.920 It's not going away.

00:20:41.020 So don't beat yourself up even more because the self-talk isn't going away, right?

00:20:46.540 Like just realize it's going to come and then let it go.

00:20:50.980 And the margin between that natural reaction and the event and the meaning we make gets

00:20:57.120 smaller and smaller, but every so often that's not going to go away and don't beat yourself

00:21:02.440 up that it's not going away because then you get all sideways around that.

00:21:06.980 And then the other thing you alluded to it, Dwayne, practice gratitude, whether that's

00:21:13.500 journaling in the morning, whether it's serving people that are less fortunate from you, look

00:21:18.800 for those opportunities to find gratitude in your life.

00:21:23.080 I know it sounds silly.

00:21:24.400 Me backpacking generates a massive amount of gratitude for me.

00:21:29.020 I go camping for overnight in the woods.

00:21:31.660 I come home.

00:21:32.780 That house looks cleaner than it's ever looked.

00:21:34.720 That house I'm highly grateful for.

00:21:37.200 That bed I'm grateful for, right?

00:21:39.000 And so look for those areas to generate gratitude.

00:21:42.260 Maybe it's just the mental, but maybe it's even physical elements that might really help

00:21:46.620 you.

00:21:47.220 And last thought I had as a resource, because I think it's profound, Jimmy, is the book,

00:21:52.780 The Four Agreements or The Fifth Agreement.

00:21:55.840 I would read those books.

00:21:57.740 Those books are spot on around this conversation and the level of poison that your word

00:22:04.700 can create for you and for others.

00:22:06.920 And that's what self-talk is.

00:22:08.400 It's your word.

00:22:10.460 And we need to be careful with how we use our word.

00:22:17.120 Good, Dwayne?

00:22:19.460 Yeah.

00:22:20.340 Yeah.

00:22:21.180 I agree.

00:22:22.240 All right.

00:22:22.820 Tyler, you need to agree, because if you don't agree, man, we need to debate this.

00:22:27.580 I need some more disagreements, I'm sure.

00:22:29.600 Yeah.

00:22:30.020 Yeah.

00:22:30.940 We could cover the book, The Five Disagreements or The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

00:22:36.960 That's what I was thinking.

00:22:37.780 Anyhow, okay.

00:22:38.560 Tyler Griffin.

00:22:39.760 What are some good ways to assist a spouse who is suffering from postpartum depression

00:22:44.840 and has been reluctant to receive professional help and does not recognize the need for it?

00:22:50.520 That's a deep one for sure.

00:22:56.160 I haven't ever had a spouse that has had a kid, so we don't have children at the moment.

00:23:02.260 So I would say the only thing that I could think of is start helping around the house.

00:23:09.660 Like, start seeing where there are other ways you can serve and be there for them, no matter

00:23:15.080 what they're going through, right?

00:23:16.160 This is definitely for postpartum, but it's also just in other areas.

00:23:20.600 When you see somebody that's really stressed out or you see they're struggling with something

00:23:25.140 else or has high anxiety, it's like, hey, how can I help you around the house?

00:23:30.140 Can I take some chores off?

00:23:31.440 That's that presiding thing that Kip and I were talking about before is like, if you can

00:23:35.000 really notice that, just acknowledge that you're there to help out.

00:23:40.020 I wouldn't specifically call out the feelings or emotions in case you get them wrong.

00:23:44.560 You're like, I think you're feeling like this.

00:23:46.440 And you're like, that wasn't it.

00:23:47.980 That's wrong.

00:23:48.760 Like that can be a minefield on its own, but just be there and say like, hey, you know,

00:23:53.260 I'm here to help out.

00:23:54.580 I carved some extra time out today.

00:23:56.560 How can I serve you and just see what they come up with, whatever that might be.

00:24:01.280 And then jump in.

00:24:02.760 This is one area where I wouldn't communicate all of it, but you would just be there, like

00:24:08.100 be supportive and see if they do need to talk.

00:24:11.560 You know, I'm here to listen.

00:24:12.640 Yeah, totally.

00:24:14.600 I mean, I'm reading between the lines a little bit here, but like, I just, I just, I'm just

00:24:18.700 imagining Tyler going, hey, honey, you have postpartum depression.

00:24:22.240 You need professional help and you don't realize that you're broken, that you need fixed.

00:24:29.640 That's how that's going to be understood.

00:24:32.620 You're broken and you need fixing.

00:24:34.540 No one wants to hear that, even if it's true.

00:24:40.500 And Tyler, I'm not saying you said that, but for those listening, you just be careful with

00:24:46.140 the label because that label comes up with a tons of meaning and it may not be received

00:24:52.720 well.

00:24:53.280 I agree with you, Dwayne.

00:24:54.600 Focus on the help and focus on what is this depression?

00:24:58.200 How do you feel?

00:24:59.160 Why do you feel that way?

00:25:00.220 What can I do to help?

00:25:01.180 What things would I be able to do to help you not feel depressed?

00:25:04.580 Like dive into it and, and dive into it.

00:25:09.180 Not that something's broken, but dive into it.

00:25:12.200 Hey, honey, you don't seem as happy.

00:25:15.280 Why?

00:25:16.660 What can I do?

00:25:18.640 What are these areas that you're, what are you, what are you thinking about all the time?

00:25:22.480 What's stressing you out the most?

00:25:24.040 It's this, this, this, this, okay.

00:25:26.440 What can I do?

00:25:27.880 Do you just need me to listen, be here for you, get away.

00:25:32.040 Do you want me to address some of those concerns?

00:25:35.260 Look to build safety physically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever those areas are that are

00:25:43.500 generating a level of uncertainty, I would double down on and focus on serving.

00:25:49.960 Yeah.

00:25:52.580 Well, one of the things in the question too, was like, they don't recognize it.

00:25:57.140 So just potentially helping them recognize, like you said, and like, if you're not, you

00:26:02.000 know, you don't seem as happy, you know, how, how can, you know, how can I help with that

00:26:06.660 or what, what is making you feel that way in kind of leading them to recognizing some of

00:26:12.560 those traits.

00:26:13.000 And it could be just comparison to what it used to be like or something.

00:26:16.740 Yeah.

00:26:16.840 Totally.

00:26:17.720 Well, and you might be wrong, you know, like, trust me, I have had this conversation

00:26:23.760 of, you know, things aren't as good in our relationship.

00:26:28.520 And my wife goes, I thought everything's been going great.

00:26:33.140 Oh, good to know.

00:26:35.960 Let me communicate.

00:26:37.480 Right.

00:26:38.040 So who knows, right?

00:26:39.940 Get, get to brass tacks, seek to understand.

00:26:42.860 Right.

00:26:43.440 Yeah.

00:26:43.880 All right.

00:26:45.020 Luke Ireland.

00:26:46.580 How have you guys overcome major setbacks on a goal where you're a close to achieving

00:26:51.040 and how does your mindset change?

00:26:54.860 Overcoming major setbacks on a goal that you're a close.

00:26:57.620 So you're so close and you don't achieve it.

00:27:00.440 Yeah.

00:27:01.720 Yeah.

00:27:02.320 I mean, that happens if anybody's taking big swings in life, right?

00:27:06.900 Yeah.

00:27:07.060 Like, you're like, oh man, I want to do this really incredible, cool thing.

00:27:11.020 And I wasn't able to achieve it.

00:27:13.380 I feel like a lot of times it's because you had a certain emotional expectation set with

00:27:19.140 that goal.

00:27:20.020 I'm going to feel like this win.

00:27:22.400 You know, if you don't have that and you say like, I'm just along the journey and I'm

00:27:27.020 excited to see what's at the top of the mountain.

00:27:29.160 And you're like, you know what?

00:27:30.000 We didn't make it.

00:27:30.720 There was a storm.

00:27:31.540 We had to come back.

00:27:32.480 I've been there.

00:27:33.640 You're like, okay, you got to turn around for safety.

00:27:35.300 And you're like, man, but it was cool.

00:27:37.220 The journey, the people I was with, the hiking experience, we were still, you know, we still

00:27:42.280 made, you look at the positive.

00:27:43.760 We still made it 11,000 feet.

00:27:45.680 That's pretty cool.

00:27:46.920 Whatever that might be, I think is really powerful to focus on all the positive things

00:27:51.380 and the journey as opposed to like that gap.

00:27:54.780 Let's say it was only going 12,000 feet.

00:27:56.600 I went 11.

00:27:58.080 That's pretty freaking cool, right?

00:27:59.580 It's not focusing on the 1000.

00:28:01.300 It's focusing on the 11 to get to that place and who you had to become to get that far.

00:28:07.160 And another thing I always look at is I do like an after action review to say like, what

00:28:11.480 could I have changed to get there sooner?

00:28:13.780 Oh, we should have left earlier.

00:28:14.980 Should have got up, you know, made sure we were on the trail before it got too bright outside.

00:28:19.740 And so we needed more time on the trail because it was a little harder than we thought.

00:28:22.820 Let's hit it next time.

00:28:23.920 Let's plan how to go after that goal and attack it again.

00:28:27.460 Because I don't think anybody that set those big goals actually wants to stop.

00:28:33.000 You're like, oh, I'm done.

00:28:34.460 Big goals done.

00:28:35.280 I didn't make it that one time.

00:28:36.980 No, you go after it again.

00:28:38.100 How many times have we seen entrepreneurs or whatever that looks like inventors say like,

00:28:42.320 oh, it was the 10,000 times I failed before I got the light bulb.

00:28:45.380 You just keep going after it over and over.

00:28:47.760 But really focusing on the journey, I think, is really powerful.

00:28:51.440 Totally.

00:28:52.040 And Luke, we get it, man.

00:28:53.920 I mean, I ran my own consulting firm for, what, 15 years?

00:28:58.600 You know how many times I had setbacks?

00:29:00.940 Or marriage and kids and setbacks on how you think your teenager and your kid's going to 0.99

00:29:07.520 show up in the world and they're a pain in the butt. 0.99

00:29:11.140 And this shows up everywhere. 0.97

00:29:13.580 And I love what you said, Dwayne, and I feel that's an important thing to even remember

00:29:18.600 for people that do goal setting.

00:29:20.260 Because sometimes they delay their happiness or they align their happiness to the goal being met.

00:29:32.580 Goals are great.

00:29:34.520 They're good things to ensure that we're improving.

00:29:37.500 But guys, don't wait for someday.

00:29:39.820 Don't wait for someday.

00:29:43.940 Because life happens.

00:29:45.620 And someday, sometimes never shows up.

00:29:49.080 And so it's more about who you are being and how you show up than it is really about the outcome itself.

00:29:55.660 And I know that sounds cheesy, but I believe it.

00:29:59.020 I thought of this quote, Dwayne, when I read this question.

00:30:02.760 It's by Jink and Lloyd-Jones.

00:30:04.540 Maybe it kind of sums up what you said, Dwayne, perfectly, I think.

00:30:07.660 Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he has been robbed.

00:30:16.000 The fact is that most putts don't drop.

00:30:18.820 Most beef is tough.

00:30:20.620 Most children grow up just to be like people.

00:30:23.600 And most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual tolerance.

00:30:27.740 And most jobs are more full of dull than otherwise.

00:30:31.800 Life is like an old time rail journey.

00:30:34.840 Delays, sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders, and jolts.

00:30:42.100 Indispersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas and thrilling bursts of speed.

00:30:47.540 The trick is to thank the Lord for letting you have the ride.

00:30:52.880 Perfectly said.

00:30:54.340 Yeah.

00:30:55.060 We probably should have just read that quote and called it.

00:30:57.340 That's right.

00:30:58.380 That's easy.

00:30:59.560 That was good.

00:31:00.700 It's so true. 0.84

00:31:01.420 I mean, it's about the journey and how you get there.

00:31:04.780 And then once you have that setback, it's also how you react to it.

00:31:09.400 Right.

00:31:09.860 Could you imagine throwing a tantrum and be like, oh, my God, this is.

00:31:13.500 How many times with your company, right?

00:31:15.420 Like people wouldn't treat you with respect after that.

00:31:18.380 Like stuff happens and you can react to it.

00:31:20.980 I've won clients because we had issues and it's how I've reacted to that specific thing.

00:31:25.800 And we're like, we had clear communication.

00:31:27.660 There were next steps.

00:31:29.160 We knew what we were going to do.

00:31:30.240 And we explained the situation.

00:31:31.820 Like sometimes that happens.

00:31:33.620 Like, yep, that's unfortunate.

00:31:35.520 Well, that's where the growth is.

00:31:37.020 Those setbacks are just challenges, opportunities of growth, right?

00:31:40.540 No different than Luke, you busting your tail off in the gym and lifting weights.

00:31:46.300 Those are obstacles, the weights, the obstacle and the way, and your setbacks are just another

00:31:53.080 obstacle, another challenge, another opportunity for growth, right?

00:31:57.420 Yeah.

00:31:58.080 I love it, man.

00:31:59.320 All right.

00:31:59.780 Andy Mooser, beyond setting the example yourself, what's a good way to support your wife who

00:32:06.380 seems to be struggling with self-improvement herself, even when she said she wants and needs

00:32:12.040 to improve?

00:32:12.740 For some context, she specifically has anxiety and ADHD.

00:32:19.160 So he's already said, hey, guys, don't give me the modeling answer.

00:32:22.640 I know that already, right?

00:32:24.660 So Andy's like, you know, give me something else.

00:32:28.840 That's a good, it's a good one, Andy.

00:32:31.280 It's like, you have the same wife I do.

00:32:33.700 Very similar situation.

00:32:35.800 And yes, we started with the modeling, but I do a lot of the work too.

00:32:39.600 I invite her along the path.

00:32:42.120 So it's not just modeling it, but it's like, hey, we're going for a walk.

00:32:45.620 You're coming with, oh, I don't want to, but you're going to, right?

00:32:49.980 Yeah, I'll come.

00:32:51.040 And then it's like, again, like we were talking before, just asking questions, being involved,

00:32:55.400 being engaged, and we're doing something together.

00:32:58.540 So the togetherness of it, I know my wife doesn't love eating like as healthy. 1.00

00:33:05.080 Totally fine.

00:33:05.880 Like everybody would love a pizza, right?

00:33:08.240 But I'll cook.

00:33:09.180 And then I'll say like, hey, can you come and help me, you know, cook the bacon in the

00:33:13.560 morning?

00:33:13.980 And she's like, oh, sure.

00:33:14.960 So we're doing something together.

00:33:16.280 So we get that quality time as well.

00:33:18.460 And then it's not terrible in her mind.

00:33:21.140 Like we're both doing it.

00:33:22.320 So it's not really just doing it by yourself.

00:33:24.440 And you're sitting over there being like, I wish you would eat clean.

00:33:27.020 And you're like, oh, no, this is why kind of explaining it and being like, this is what

00:33:30.600 I want for our family and setting that vision.

00:33:33.060 I want you to be healthy because I want you to live a long time.

00:33:37.000 That's why, that's why it's because I care more than anything else.

00:33:40.840 And that's the conversation that I have at my house.

00:33:43.120 And it helps, but it's constant, right?

00:33:46.180 Like it's anything in leadership is you kind of have to keep reiterating that.

00:33:49.860 And then when you see the improvement, really compliment the hell out of it.

00:33:53.420 Be like, wow, you look good in those jeans.

00:33:55.660 What's been all that clean eating?

00:33:58.260 Oh, it's the walks, right?

00:33:59.600 Like, isn't that cool?

00:34:00.580 Or buying or something that's like fun and exciting that gets you going.

00:34:04.300 Like you guys could both go for a walk because you got new trail shoots together.

00:34:08.120 So there's a lot of things you can do together.

00:34:10.380 I think it helps you solidify that bond as a family.

00:34:14.520 Yeah.

00:34:15.020 Well, and it looks different for all of us, right?

00:34:18.480 Like, you know, we double down.

00:34:20.200 We have our own little tribe culture, right?

00:34:22.620 In order, man, and our council, we know what self-improvement looks like.

00:34:26.840 But for her, it's probably pick a ball with some friends, right?

00:34:31.380 It's reading different books than what you read.

00:34:34.760 Growth looks drastically different for everybody.

00:34:38.600 And so I would try to maybe eliminate some of the judgment.

00:34:42.340 Don't be too harsh, but also realize the human condition.

00:34:45.720 And the human condition is, I'm not going to react well to Dwayne correcting me.

00:34:53.180 It is just what it is.

00:34:55.420 Now, if he thinks I'm the coolest thing ever, and we have a great relationship, and he just

00:35:02.060 understands me, and then I seek out Dwayne's advice, now he's in a position of influence

00:35:09.320 with me.

00:35:09.740 But if all those other things aren't happening, and we're just trying to correct, correct,

00:35:14.760 correct, it's not going to be perceived well.

00:35:17.380 So be okay where she's at.

00:35:19.260 She's awesome. 0.83

00:35:20.780 She's doing amazing.

00:35:22.960 Well, like you said, supporting them along their journey, too.

00:35:26.180 Yeah, their journey, not your journey.

00:35:28.200 That's great.

00:35:29.340 Go for it.

00:35:30.020 Like, I'll watch the kids.

00:35:31.280 I'll do, I'll hold down the four, whatever that looks like. 0.61

00:35:33.260 But yeah, asking what really gets them excited.

00:35:35.800 And I found that when you ask them questions about what's going on in their life, how can

00:35:42.020 I make that come alive for you, whatever that looks like?

00:35:44.680 And they're more apt to want to do that, as opposed to, you know, nagging them to death

00:35:49.620 about whatever it might be.

00:35:51.720 Totally.

00:35:52.100 And I think something I said earlier, I think is applicable here.

00:35:56.720 Share.

00:35:57.560 Share what you're getting.

00:35:59.180 So when you read something that was profound, and you really love it, share it.

00:36:03.780 And share it in a way that you're moving and inspiring others about what you're doing

00:36:08.980 and the benefits you're getting.

00:36:10.640 Don't share it to manipulate and share.

00:36:13.320 Share it because you're excited.

00:36:15.000 And they'll consider it for themselves.

00:36:17.240 And one thing you said, Dwayne, like I think is really valuable.

00:36:21.220 And you just, as an example, Andy, you might find out that she wants to start running or

00:36:29.640 a goal of hers is always to run a marathon. 0.86

00:36:31.840 You might need to run it with her, right?

00:36:35.680 My wife, she had that idea. 1.00

00:36:37.940 She's like, I want to run.

00:36:38.940 And I'm like, I'm done.

00:36:39.860 I've done my marathons.

00:36:41.160 I don't want to do anymore.

00:36:42.360 I have no desire to, but I want to be highly supportive.

00:36:46.660 So I started running at nights with her.

00:36:49.860 It was great.

00:36:50.760 Our relationship was better.

00:36:51.780 We talked the whole time.

00:36:52.940 Like it was good for both of us.

00:36:55.080 And I was being highly supportive in doing something I had no desire to do, but that's

00:37:00.880 what support looks like sometimes.

00:37:04.000 Well, you might need to meet her where she's at.

00:37:06.260 Yeah.

00:37:06.720 Yeah.

00:37:06.980 Like vice versa.

00:37:07.720 You could do the opposite and say like, Hey, will you come support me?

00:37:11.340 So I was running a marathon last year.

00:37:13.140 This reminded me of that.

00:37:14.100 And I got my wife, one of those beach cruisers. 1.00

00:37:16.660 So in Arizona, we have a lot of canals, so I'll run the canal and it's very smooth.

00:37:20.800 It's paved or it's like gravel.

00:37:22.100 So it's easy.

00:37:22.900 I was like, Hey, will you come and like time me?

00:37:24.740 Like just kind of like ride next to me at the beginning.

00:37:27.920 It was a little hard because she was like, you ride too slow for this, or you run too

00:37:31.360 slow for this to be exercise.

00:37:32.540 And I was like, I was like, that's a pretty slow, but over the time it got faster and she's

00:37:39.000 like, wow, you're keeping good pace.

00:37:40.140 And it's like good for both of us, but she was out there supporting me because that's what

00:37:44.100 she wanted to do.

00:37:44.760 And no, riding on the beach cruiser wasn't a ton of exercise for her, but it got us both

00:37:49.700 to doing the same thing.

00:37:50.640 And she felt really supportive.

00:37:51.700 So I thought that was really cool.

00:37:53.180 Yeah.

00:37:53.300 That's awesome.

00:37:54.080 Dude.

00:37:54.240 I, when I ran my first marathon, I, I trained when I was living in Arizona.

00:37:58.480 And so I ran the canal roads all the time, right?

00:38:01.880 There's like back in the day, there used to be even an app that you could use to calculate

00:38:07.180 distances and stuff with all the canals.

00:38:09.500 It's great.

00:38:10.300 In Arizona.

00:38:10.880 So that's funny.

00:38:12.360 All right.

00:38:13.100 Brandon Clement.

00:38:14.760 Going deeper from your recap, Kip, on the previous all call.

00:38:18.760 So he's talking about, uh, we have an all call, um, an all hands call every Friday.

00:38:23.580 We have actually two of them in the iron council.

00:38:25.340 And he's talking about that call last week.

00:38:27.520 What do you and the senior leadership see that battle teams can improve on?

00:38:32.580 And what is the chief criticism from new members of the iron council?

00:38:38.080 So I'll let you answer this first, Dwayne, and then, and then I'll chime in.

00:38:41.560 Well, I think from like a senior leadership standpoint and battle team leaders, we can always do a

00:38:47.380 better job of communicating the mission and the vision with everybody.

00:38:50.920 Um, I feel like one thing that we do and it's very easy for a lot of leaders to do is like, well, I said it once.

00:38:58.740 So everybody should know.

00:38:59.960 Like you really do need to repeat yourself because there's a lot of times we get 75, 100 new men in the iron council on a regular basis.

00:39:08.580 They haven't heard the mission.

00:39:10.340 They haven't been here for five plus years.

00:39:12.860 Um, they're not as familiar with everything.

00:39:14.620 So I think it's really critical to make sure that we have good onboarding policies and we're making sure that really indoctrinating people and making sure that they feel the mission and the vision of each individual team and the broader iron council.

00:39:28.520 Sometimes we'll get squirreled away and be like, this team's the best team and that team's the best team or whatever.

00:39:33.780 There's a lot of team values, but you can bubble that up and really see how connecting in the iron council.

00:39:39.560 There's a thousand men in the iron council all over the globe.

00:39:43.220 Like we mentioned before, tons of experience in different insights and just making sure that everybody knows that and can access it and actually takes advantage of it.

00:39:53.880 So many people join and they don't take advantage of half of the information that we have or connecting with some of the men that could really change their lives.

00:40:01.900 So I think that's helpful is just making sure that we're comfortable telling the message, but not letting it get stale at the same time.

00:40:10.760 What advice, Dwayne, would you give a team member if they came to you and said, hey, what, what can I do to better the team?

00:40:20.660 I would say the number one thing a team member can do is just care and you care by reaching out and kind of knowing the other men on the team.

00:40:32.300 Knowing what their battle plans look like, knowing what their visions are, knowing their family's name and giving them a call.

00:40:40.740 Just calling them out once in a while and be like, hey, man, I had somebody do that to me today.

00:40:45.320 One of the guys on my team, he was like, hey, I saw you didn't log as many miles last week.

00:40:49.520 How's it going in the heat of Arizona?

00:40:51.540 And I was like, oh, yeah, good call.

00:40:52.840 Thanks.

00:40:53.440 I appreciate that.

00:40:54.260 But that was something that an individual team member, you can always reach out, provide that feedback to other men on the team.

00:41:02.000 Yeah, I love it.

00:41:03.620 I feel there's a natural order to life, and I think it's transcendent to the Iron Council.

00:41:10.440 I think it's transcendent to our jobs, any type of group that we belong to.

00:41:16.400 And at first, we are part of teams for individual success.

00:41:21.720 And the natural order or the progression towards a life of fulfillment, purpose, and meaning will always be found in the development and growth of others.

00:41:36.700 And so guys on the IC, they join usually for themselves.

00:41:42.400 I'm going to join the Iron Council.

00:41:43.540 I'm going to do, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to.

00:41:45.500 And then they stay to serve.

00:41:48.080 So care, like you said, Dwayne, serve the other men on your team.

00:41:54.720 I had this fun story.

00:41:56.040 My, I was at, my kids, by the way, I, my kids integrate into my work, intentionally, by the way.

00:42:02.840 I, they come into the office all the time, raid the kitchen, eat a bunch of junk food.

00:42:08.500 They didn't know that there's talkies in the kitchen, so they might even show up at the office more often.

00:42:12.480 But, but they show up here and I love it and I encourage it.

00:42:17.000 And on Friday, I go into the kitchen and there's sticky notes on the fridges.

00:42:24.600 Like just, you know, the square sticky notes.

00:42:28.160 And my daughter's left a note on one of the fridges before, like a little inspirational note.

00:42:32.720 And then I saw two and I thought, oh, she's changed it.

00:42:35.900 And I didn't realize it.

00:42:37.100 And I went in there.

00:42:38.480 And, and so here's some advice from, from Kika for, for Brandon.

00:42:44.600 She says, work together.

00:42:47.060 You are not just friends.

00:42:48.980 You are a tribe.

00:42:50.340 So work it out and respect each other.

00:42:53.380 Kika, Kip's daughter.

00:42:54.800 So there you go.

00:42:55.880 Respect each other.

00:42:57.080 Work it out.

00:42:58.480 You're a tribe.

00:42:59.600 So look out for others, right?

00:43:01.220 I like that she had to say that she was your daughter though.

00:43:04.260 And everybody's like, we know it's key.

00:43:05.920 Yeah.

00:43:06.180 It's like, right.

00:43:06.820 Yeah.

00:43:07.120 It's a given.

00:43:08.880 All right.

00:43:09.640 Drew has a question.

00:43:10.800 He says, Dwayne, what was like jumping ship from your corporate job to your agency?

00:43:16.900 Any tips for guys trying to do the same?

00:43:20.300 So give us a backstory first, Dwayne, a little bit.

00:43:23.320 Yeah, we'll do.

00:43:24.140 I've worked in corporate America for the last 10 years.

00:43:27.180 So I was a web developer and then I moved up the ranks and became a manager.

00:43:31.460 So when you can't, then you manage.

00:43:33.440 No, I'm just kidding.

00:43:34.620 So it was just the next progression, right?

00:43:36.620 Like that's, that's something that I really had a good skill with is making sure that we

00:43:40.320 could speak business and technical really well.

00:43:43.480 So I was able to bridge the gap.

00:43:45.000 I thought that was a really powerful skill specifically in the corporate world and then

00:43:48.700 kept getting promoted.

00:43:50.220 And I felt that I hit a glass ceiling or like a ceiling with my job and, you know, the opportunities

00:43:56.900 that were there in a larger organization.

00:43:59.940 And it was about a year ago that I.

00:44:02.080 With, with challenge and opportunity or from compensation, like what, what was the ceiling

00:44:07.080 that you felt like you can get through?

00:44:08.840 All of the above really.

00:44:10.080 So at a certain point, the, if you're at a company, there's only one boss, right?

00:44:16.020 You know, it gets fewer and fewer as you get to the top of any, any food chain, if you would.

00:44:20.880 And the compensation was great.

00:44:22.940 It was good.

00:44:23.860 But it wasn't fulfilling at a certain point because it wasn't challenging anymore.

00:44:28.380 So I was, I was really struggling to find my purpose and direction with that.

00:44:33.060 And you just keep doing the same thing.

00:44:34.340 And I guess I'll wait till my boss moves or leaves or quits, you know, and we'll just keep

00:44:38.720 going.

00:44:38.980 And everybody, all the leadership was saying, oh, you're doing a great job.

00:44:42.680 Like, oh, thanks.

00:44:43.460 That's great.

00:44:43.920 What does that get?

00:44:45.220 Same bonuses and everything as people that aren't or whatever, you know, it's just kind

00:44:48.980 of a, a very normal tiered situation for all the management to get bonuses.

00:44:54.040 Everybody just gets the same bonus no matter what.

00:44:57.360 So I took those skills and I translated that into my own agency.

00:45:01.700 So I run a marketing agency.

00:45:03.020 Now I work with my wife.

00:45:04.800 So we both actually left our jobs very similarly at the same time and kind of went out on a

00:45:10.500 limb and yeah, it's been a wild ride over the last 12 months.

00:45:16.700 It's very fulfilling.

00:45:18.500 I made way less money this year than I did at my corporate job to people, you know, bringing

00:45:25.560 in good salaries to figuring out where the next paycheck's going to come from.

00:45:30.100 But honestly, I'm way more fulfilled now.

00:45:33.540 Just happy, excited.

00:45:35.760 We're helping other companies grow and scale.

00:45:37.840 And we're seeing the tangible benefits of us being on board.

00:45:41.760 Whereas before in the, in a corporate organization, it's just like, yeah, we replaced you overnight.

00:45:47.420 You know, you're like, oh, dang.

00:45:49.800 Like what impact was I really making?

00:45:52.000 The team loved me.

00:45:52.900 They thought, you know, thought I was doing a good job.

00:45:55.160 Everything was great there, but it was just, I was really lacking that fulfillment of like

00:45:59.280 my, my stamp or brand on something and being able to contribute to my fullest.

00:46:03.800 So, yeah, fully expressed all the cards, agency and freedom of what you do.

00:46:12.800 Exactly.

00:46:13.780 Yeah.

00:46:14.820 Yeah.

00:46:15.020 It's been great, but I would say, make sure that you have a skill that you can monetize

00:46:20.900 if you're going to do this on your own.

00:46:23.200 I know quite a few men that are looking to start the entrepreneurial journey.

00:46:26.780 Kip, you mentioned you've had any, you've had a consulting firm before.

00:46:30.500 It's not all it's cracked up to be guys.

00:46:32.480 Like having a paycheck and some insurance is great.

00:46:35.500 Like don't let the internet guru like romanticize that too much.

00:46:40.500 You know, it can be a challenge.

00:46:42.360 It's funny that you say that all the time, man.

00:46:45.340 I, I mean, hop on social media.

00:46:48.040 Everyone will tell you the same thing.

00:46:49.520 Oh, you should all work for yourselves.

00:46:50.880 And I'm like, I don't think so.

00:46:52.760 I don't think, I don't think everyone really wants to, or they're not present to the cost.

00:47:00.560 And the cost is pretty substantial, right?

00:47:05.340 You're not going to work less.

00:47:07.100 Probably you're probably going to work longer hours than you worked when working for someone.

00:47:11.920 You'll have ups and downs.

00:47:14.060 Asia and I, we used to joke around all the time.

00:47:15.940 We're the richest and the poorest people ever because like one month or one quarter, we're

00:47:20.780 like killing it, right?

00:47:23.240 Life is good. 0.99

00:47:24.480 And the next quarter, crap, you know, maybe we can't make the mortgage. 0.91

00:47:29.700 It was so stressful. 0.89

00:47:33.100 It was so rewarding.

00:47:34.620 It was so stressful.

00:47:35.500 But like everything else, it's not so simple.

00:47:39.480 Anything, everything has a price.

00:47:43.000 Everything has a price.

00:47:43.980 Get clear on, are you willing to pay the price?

00:47:49.360 Because that's not what, that's not what people tell you on social media that are trying to

00:47:55.520 coach you and, or give you like entrepreneurial, you know, coaching.

00:48:00.200 They're not going to tell you the price.

00:48:03.480 Be clear that you want to do it.

00:48:06.080 Yeah.

00:48:06.180 Well, and I would say that there's an element of like trying to find your sovereignty with

00:48:11.140 that is like, now I eat what I kill literally.

00:48:14.300 Whereas before it's like, I just showed up and dinner was there all the time.

00:48:17.680 Like it was like, like you said, the refrigerator stocked, you get to go in, it's nine to five.

00:48:22.560 We got the normal holidays off.

00:48:24.140 And now it's like, what's a weekend?

00:48:25.940 And you're like, oh, it's two more days until Monday.

00:48:28.340 That's two more work days.

00:48:29.660 You know, it's like, that's totally fine right now.

00:48:32.440 We're going through a season where we know we're putting in the extra, the work and labor

00:48:37.160 to set ourselves up for what we want to build.

00:48:41.120 You know, we have this big vision for our lives and I know that I can accomplish it here.

00:48:45.760 Whereas, you know, when you're, when you have certain rules and expectations set upon you

00:48:50.480 is like, oh, now if I want to go to Mexico, we're like, we're going to go to Mexico.

00:48:54.640 Yeah.

00:48:55.100 So it's nice.

00:48:55.740 I don't have somebody to, you know, ask for time off or whatever, because I know that the

00:49:00.260 work I've put in or I'll get the work done while we're there on the plane, whatever that

00:49:04.980 looks like.

00:49:05.500 So we're in more control of our day-to-day lives and that's what's, it's been really

00:49:10.440 freeing.

00:49:10.940 So I appreciate it, but there are definitely trade-offs for sure.

00:49:15.060 Yeah.

00:49:15.620 How many, so let's, let's give Drew kind of some few tips.

00:49:19.680 So some more tips, if you don't mind, what did you have to have in place?

00:49:24.880 Like, did you just go cold Turkey, you, you ensured that you had X amount of months of,

00:49:31.060 of savings available.

00:49:33.700 Did you moonlight first for a period of time before you made that leap?

00:49:38.320 Like what, what, what advice would you have in regards to like, kind of what your story

00:49:43.420 looked like?

00:49:44.620 I would advise to have as much savings as possible during those, you know, while you take the

00:49:51.000 leap.

00:49:51.260 Um, mine was more cold Turkey, definitely like left abruptly and was like, all right, I've 0.96

00:49:56.680 had it.

00:49:57.160 I'm out.

00:49:58.260 Um, my wife had put her two weeks in and then I had had it and we're like, all right, well,

00:50:02.460 we're doing this together.

00:50:03.640 So we just prayed about it.

00:50:05.600 And that's honestly been the biggest benefit is having something together.

00:50:09.820 Um, our faith has really driven us forward with this is to make sure, you know, like some

00:50:14.320 days all you can do is pray.

00:50:15.720 Um, and for us, God has provided just enough, one more client just to pay the mortgage, keep

00:50:23.760 the lights on just this one more month.

00:50:26.160 And you're like, okay, cool.

00:50:27.040 We're good.

00:50:27.760 We're in, we're in business for September.

00:50:29.600 Let's do this.

00:50:30.540 And then you just keep focusing.

00:50:32.060 So I really laughed when it was like, Hey, what are those failures?

00:50:34.680 We were talking about that other question.

00:50:36.000 I was like, oh man, it's on a daily basis.

00:50:38.080 You just have to put a smile on and move forward.

00:50:40.760 So having more savings would be helpful.

00:50:43.360 So we definitely had, we had some savings that we dipped into for the first like three

00:50:47.820 months just to get things rolling and figured out.

00:50:50.380 Um, and then really another thing is making sure that you built a solid reputation.

00:50:55.200 My wife had been in the marketing business for a really long time. 1.00

00:50:58.260 I've been in technology.

00:50:59.500 So I was a technology leader and we just called on our, our friends and our network and people

00:51:05.140 are like, oh, you're in business for yourself.

00:51:06.900 I would love to work with you guys.

00:51:08.640 So we really tapped into that because we had a pretty strong reputation already in the

00:51:14.080 similar space that we were doing.

00:51:15.660 It wasn't kind of out of left field.

00:51:17.240 We weren't starting something vastly different.

00:51:21.260 So that was very helpful.

00:51:22.960 And then over deliver, over deliver, over deliver, like over service your clients.

00:51:29.220 I actually, that's how we build referrals.

00:51:31.740 And then now we can use them for new clients.

00:51:34.700 They'd be like, Hey, do you want to work with so-and-so?

00:51:36.660 Yeah.

00:51:36.800 Just give them a call.

00:51:38.200 Our latest one was like, why do they charge so little and do it so quickly when everybody

00:51:42.780 else says it's double the cost and takes twice as long?

00:51:46.480 Yeah.

00:51:46.900 We're starting our book of business, baby.

00:51:48.380 We're not being too, you know, too greedy and we're not trying to say we're bigger than

00:51:53.140 what we are at the moment.

00:51:54.240 So be humble and do it and do a good job to start.

00:51:58.180 And then you'll have a huge raving fan base.

00:52:00.900 And then you can start to charge more and more as you get more clients.

00:52:04.000 Totally.

00:52:04.420 I used to call this the wow factor.

00:52:06.740 Yeah.

00:52:07.020 We would have a scope, review the scope.

00:52:10.440 If you meet the scope of the client, that's not good enough.

00:52:15.020 That's meeting expectation.

00:52:17.160 Tell me what marriage is great.

00:52:18.800 Yeah.

00:52:18.960 She meets my expectations.

00:52:20.180 No, you go for wow factor.

00:52:23.520 And so we would have a project kickoff, meet with a client.

00:52:27.680 We'd hang up the phone and they would say, all right, based upon what we know, how do

00:52:31.720 we wow them?

00:52:33.600 They're worried about budget.

00:52:34.780 Great.

00:52:35.160 Let's call it.

00:52:36.000 We're going to come under budget.

00:52:37.320 They're worried about timeline.

00:52:38.300 Okay.

00:52:38.520 We're going to get it done even faster.

00:52:40.260 Oh, they really wanted this other widget that we're going to charge them for.

00:52:43.020 You know what?

00:52:43.380 Let's include it for free.

00:52:44.300 We wouldn't tell them any of those things because we didn't want them to be part of

00:52:49.180 the expectation and the agreement, but we'd go above and beyond to ensure that they were

00:52:53.420 implemented.

00:52:54.740 And I can't stress that enough, Dwayne.

00:52:57.040 It's spot on, man.

00:52:58.160 You got to wow clients because when you're small, you don't have the margin to generate

00:53:05.660 a top of funnel marketing team and all this other stuff, right?

00:53:08.540 And so it's all about quality of delivery.

00:53:11.780 The other thing drew that I'd consider is be careful on being rigid with the way you

00:53:19.680 think it's going to look like and be flexible with that.

00:53:25.160 We talk about that quite a bit on the podcast is, you know, minimal viable product, right?

00:53:30.260 It's not part of the car.

00:53:31.800 Like if we took building a car as a minimal viable product, minimal viable is not half of

00:53:38.280 a car that doesn't work.

00:53:39.420 Like it's a skateboard and then it's a bike, then it's a Geo Metro, right?

00:53:46.380 And then it's a BMW, like address the need, but you might need to address the need a little

00:53:52.560 bit different than you would like.

00:53:54.500 I coached one individual that wanted to open up a martial arts school and he was so set on

00:54:00.220 this has to be brick and mortar.

00:54:02.200 I got to get this business loan.

00:54:04.440 I got to build a building and then, and then we'll do what people do with the internet.

00:54:09.560 I'm going to build this website.

00:54:10.820 And then like magically people are just going to start coming to it and I get leads.

00:54:15.520 And he thought the same thing with the building.

00:54:17.200 I'm going to build a building and like people will show up.

00:54:19.680 I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:54:21.040 You get the leads first.

00:54:23.060 You get the top of funnel first.

00:54:24.700 Well, how do I do that without a building?

00:54:25.980 You start teaching your martial art at a rec center in the area where you want a future

00:54:33.040 building.

00:54:33.720 You create a movement.

00:54:35.540 You start podcasting, see if your message resonates, that you get a following, that you're

00:54:40.260 providing value.

00:54:41.860 Then you start doing these other things.

00:54:44.500 So it may not look like you want.

00:54:46.480 I started a consulting firm literally. 0.97

00:54:48.920 And I don't know if I had the balls, Dwayne, to do what you did. 0.91

00:54:51.940 And I got laid off actually working for Intel and Micron and it came up with a great severance 0.96

00:54:57.340 package.

00:54:58.020 So I had like 12 months of severance.

00:55:01.520 So I had a year to play around full salary.

00:55:06.380 And I thought, well, I'll start my own thing.

00:55:08.960 Worst case.

00:55:09.720 And this was my hope.

00:55:11.480 If it all goes South, I'll just go find a job.

00:55:15.340 And it just never went South for 15 years.

00:55:18.980 I'm like, never had to go get a job.

00:55:20.420 That's a good run.

00:55:21.120 Yeah.

00:55:21.300 So it was a great run.

00:55:22.980 And by the way, I didn't stop the business because it was not going well.

00:55:27.380 In fact, it was still projecting really well.

00:55:28.880 In fact, I sold my book to the firm I work for today.

00:55:32.820 But regardless, my point being is I got in that market not by doing all these things and

00:55:37.960 making a consulting firm.

00:55:39.720 An example in my scenario is what did I do?

00:55:42.220 I went to another firm and said, hey, corp to corp contract with me, with my company name,

00:55:50.680 with my S corp, not me as a W-2 or 1099.

00:55:54.700 And I started contracting to other consulting firms with my company.

00:56:00.460 Does that make sense?

00:56:01.220 So I got the tax benefit of an S corp.

00:56:03.300 It was corp to corp agreements, not 1099.

00:56:06.840 Right.

00:56:07.400 And I started creating momentum through using headhunters and contractors to land my own

00:56:13.620 contracts.

00:56:15.500 It was brilliant.

00:56:16.460 And literally, I got my notice before my two weeks were up, leaving the company, I already

00:56:22.820 had a contract aligned with the Department of Defense for a six-month contract.

00:56:27.920 Dude, it was easy.

00:56:29.580 And I didn't do anything.

00:56:31.280 Someone else did all the legwork to find that work for me.

00:56:34.240 So my point being, I'm not flexing here.

00:56:36.480 My point being is it may not look like the way you think it's going to look.

00:56:40.140 So be flexible with what that step looks like.

00:56:45.180 Yeah, I could go on and on for days on this one.

00:56:48.320 But you're right.

00:56:49.240 It doesn't necessarily look like what you think it's going to look like.

00:56:52.540 And it's testing the market just to see, like, is somebody going to want this?

00:56:56.840 Oh, this group of people might not be the right fit.

00:56:59.760 Maybe it's this group.

00:57:00.680 Or you start to change some of those services and kind of tweak what you're offering at different

00:57:05.600 times.

00:57:06.000 So it just depends on what industry you're in, but always make sure that the demand's

00:57:10.900 there for it.

00:57:11.600 I've seen so many times you're like, I've got this brilliant idea.

00:57:13.980 And you're like, yeah, nobody wants that, though.

00:57:16.600 So that's not-

00:57:17.320 No one's willing to pay you money for your great idea.

00:57:19.600 Exactly.

00:57:20.200 And not being willing to take the smaller stuff, like start out small.

00:57:25.220 We've gotten a lot of referral business from other larger agencies that are like, ah, this

00:57:30.140 is too small for us.

00:57:31.020 And you're like, I'll take that all day.

00:57:32.800 And then we'll grow it into a bigger opportunity for us.

00:57:35.660 One of our best clients, we got that way.

00:57:37.580 So it's been great.

00:57:39.600 I love that, man.

00:57:40.820 Cool.

00:57:41.180 Well, hey, Dwayne, it's been good, man.

00:57:43.300 Thank you.

00:57:43.760 Thanks for having me.

00:57:44.620 Yeah, absolutely.

00:57:45.400 Thanks for joining us.

00:57:46.600 And as a wrap up, guys, I mean, really, a call to action here that I want to remind

00:57:51.660 you guys, obviously, Ryan's in Africa.

00:57:53.640 They're going to be doing more of these things.

00:57:55.740 He's a part owner with M42 Adventures.

00:57:58.460 Check out M42adventures.com to learn more about.

00:58:03.140 I'm sure they'll post pictures.

00:58:04.360 And actually, even on his gram, he already has been flexing about all these awesome hunts

00:58:09.660 that he's been on with his son, Breckin.

00:58:11.720 And then the other call out item is on October 1st, Ryan's going to be doing an online course

00:58:17.220 called Divorce Not Death.

00:58:18.800 And this is really focused on lessons learned around dealing with that concept divorce.

00:58:25.320 If you're in that space, man, whether it's joining the Iron Council or whether it's getting

00:58:31.360 help or counseling or whatever, I can't, I mean, that could be a really dark time in

00:58:37.580 your life.

00:58:38.100 And so look for resources to help you deal with that.

00:58:42.600 And of course, you can connect with Ryan on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.

00:58:46.840 And you can connect with Dwayne Winkle at D-U-A-N-E, W-I-N-K-E-L-J-R on Instagram.

00:58:56.040 Thanks, Dwayne, for joining us.

00:58:57.900 And men, until next time, take action and become the men you were meant to be.

00:59:02.280 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:59:09.620 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:59:13.660 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 14, 2024

Self-Talk and Supporting Spouses ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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