Order of Man - Service Above Self

00:00:00.000 Today, I sit down with a fascinating man. His name is Matt Best, and many of you know him from his viral videos for Black Rifle Coffee Company.

00:00:08.520 But what you may not know is how he views his military service as an Army Ranger with five separate combat tours.

00:00:16.280 During our conversation, we talked about how he views his service, his continual support of military veterans,

00:00:22.820 how he found his mission after the military, of course, where he stumbled along the way,

00:00:27.720 and how he helped turn a simple coffee company into a household name.

00:00:32.180 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:38.180 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:42.640 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:47.180 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:51.920 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:57.180 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast,

00:01:02.460 The Order of Man, and more than a podcast, a movement.

00:01:05.780 And it wouldn't be the movement that has spanned many, many countries all over the world,

00:01:09.960 including millions and millions of men across the planet without you, without you listening in,

00:01:15.320 without you supporting what we're doing here, which is ultimately to reclaim and restore masculinity

00:01:21.360 in a society that seems to be drifting at an increasing pace away from what it means to truly be a man,

00:01:29.280 that of a protector, a provider, and a presider.

00:01:31.860 So we've got our interview show where I'm interviewing guys like Matt Best and David Goggins

00:01:36.960 and Jocko Willink and Grant Cardone and Andy Frisilla and Tim Kennedy and Dakota Meyer and Pete Roberts

00:01:42.960 and the other, I believe it's close to 240 interviews now, which is amazing. It's amazing.

00:01:51.140 I'm so fortunate to be able to do this. And again, I could not do it without you.

00:01:54.940 That's my goal to give you these types of conversations, the tools, the resources, the guidance,

00:01:59.000 the direction, everything that you need to step up in your life more fully as a man.

00:02:03.360 So thank you for being on the path with me. Guys, we've got a great show lined up for you today

00:02:07.460 with the one and only Matt Best. I know a lot of you guys know him and we're going to get to that

00:02:11.800 here in a minute. I did want to make probably the last or second to last announcement of our

00:02:19.760 upcoming event, which is going to be held August 9th, 10th, and 11th here on my property in Maine.

00:02:28.320 I've been working hard on getting the barn ready for everybody who's going to be in attendance.

00:02:33.360 Uh, it's going to be a day and a half to two days of camaraderie and competition and brotherhood

00:02:40.320 and gaining clarity and cooperating with other men to help you walk away with the ultimate battle

00:02:47.640 plan. Everything that you need to achieve more in your life in the next 90 days than potentially

00:02:53.900 you have all year. That's what we're going to do. And we're going to do that through giving you some

00:02:59.440 of these tools and resources that I've been talking about, and then having you split out in teams at

00:03:05.040 the event and working very, very closely with seven to 10 other men who are going to help you

00:03:10.480 flesh out everything that you need to create this battle plan for yourself. So if you want to know

00:03:16.780 more about it and you want to get registered, do it very, very quickly because this is just around

00:03:21.240 the corner. I think it's less than two weeks away now, and we've got a few more spots.

00:03:24.980 So head to order of man.com slash main event. Maine is in the state main order of man.com

00:03:31.140 slash main event. You can check it out. All right, guys, I've got another announcement for you later,

00:03:36.180 but for now I want to get right into this conversation with the one and only Matt best.

00:03:39.940 Uh, if you don't already know, he is a former army ranger and the co-founder of black rifle coffee

00:03:45.180 company, along with several other companies that he's founded since leaving the military. Uh, him and I

00:03:51.580 had the opportunity to sit down at total archery challenge. I didn't know what to expect quite

00:03:56.340 frankly, when I was going to sit down with him, but I was blown away with our, uh, with our engaging

00:04:00.720 conversation. I think you guys will as well. Uh, we talk about his military service, how to lead this

00:04:05.920 incredible organization along with Evan Hafer, who I've interviewed as well, uh, in black rifle coffee

00:04:11.640 company, his new book. Thank you for my service. We talk about a whole lot more of course, as well.

00:04:16.080 I think you're going to enjoy this one guys, as you might see a side of Matt, uh, that you haven't seen

00:04:20.900 before. Matt, what's up, brother? Thanks for joining me on the podcast. Thanks for having me,

00:04:26.020 brother. This is awesome. Yeah. There might be a few distractions as we, uh, we are kind of in like

00:04:30.220 a hotel lobby here at the, uh, attack, you know, this is cool though. It's our own little, uh, it's

00:04:36.440 our own little podcasting space. I, it's nice because I kind of feel it like it's just two dudes sitting

00:04:41.120 on leather couches shooting the crap. It's, it's awesome. That's pretty much exactly what, literally what

00:04:46.600 it is. I just need this fireplace going and we're good to go. We're golden. I mean, it is,

00:04:50.900 uh, it looks like gas, so it might be easy. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's why a lot of people start

00:04:54.500 podcasts. That's why I did it back in the day was just so I can hang out with my friends and

00:04:58.340 convince my, my wife that it's work. It's work. You know, you're being productive. Exactly. I did

00:05:03.140 the same thing. So I started, um, order of man for a little over four years ago. And people always

00:05:07.980 ask me, why'd you get started? I just wanted to talk with guys that were successful. It really is.

00:05:13.420 And the only reason they would talk with me at the time was if there was something in it for them

00:05:17.280 because I had nothing to offer. Of course. Or at least given the median and a, and a format to

00:05:22.260 sit there and talk and kind of interview. Cause you don't want to be like, Hey, you want to grab

00:05:24.840 a beer for an hour and I can just ask you all these questions. Do you get that a lot? I bet you

00:05:29.160 get that a lot. Well, it's fine. But yeah, I mean, it's a lot easier on podcasts cause you can sit

00:05:32.820 down and just chitty chat and you know that it's getting published. So right. All that good jazz.

00:05:36.400 Yeah, man. So I'm going to drink a little beer while we're doing this too. So I'm going to

00:05:39.080 mess up the mic. I hope that's, that's good because that'll, that'll loosen you up. We'll get the truth

00:05:43.100 here. We'll get, we'll get to the truth. I speak nothing but the truth, you know? I know. And

00:05:46.140 that's why I wanted to talk with you. Cause I've always appreciated, we were introduced through

00:05:49.260 Evan. Evan was on the podcast, I don't know, six months or so ago, five, six months. And Evan

00:05:53.340 Hafer, my BFF man. Love that guy. Did you guys serve together or how did you guys get connected?

00:05:59.040 Uh, we were working for the same organization in different capacities back in the day.

00:06:03.160 After the military? Yeah. Post-military. And so we were both kind of deployed in, um,

00:06:07.260 various areas similar to each other and, uh, really just met a mutual friend that we both,

00:06:11.780 both new booth, new like that. Um, and he introduced us all speaking. Yeah. It's one

00:06:16.580 sip of beer. Here we go. And, uh, you know, he said to Evan that you should meet Matt and I should

00:06:22.120 meet him. And we kind of just linked up and became a great friends ever since then. Yeah. He seems

00:06:27.100 like, I don't know him real well. I mean, we don't know each other real well either, but solid,

00:06:30.940 solid guy for sure. Evan's great. The thing I love about Evan is he's a no BS kind of guy. Yeah. And so

00:06:37.260 what he does in like his, uh, diffusion of conflict is one of my favorite things when he has people

00:06:42.400 that like, well, she said, and then someone's like, well, he said, he goes, okay. He grabs both

00:06:47.180 people, sits them in the room and goes, well, you said this about them. You said that about that

00:06:50.440 when they're together, let's go. And they're both like, well, uh, and it's, it's just awesome

00:06:55.700 because he doesn't want to have all that hyperbole and he doesn't want all the drama. He just like

00:06:59.520 sort it, let's go, let's move on. Let's be mission oriented, um, oriented. And it's like,

00:07:03.580 it's wonderful. I love it. So great to be business with. You guys, uh, seem like you're

00:07:08.120 from the surface, really different personalities though. Yeah. And is that, is that accurate?

00:07:13.840 I wouldn't say so that much, to be honest with you. I think people look at Evan as a very serious

00:07:18.940 business guy. Right. Right. Dude, the guy's got one of the best sense of humor that I've ever seen

00:07:23.760 or met. And I think vice versa. It's the same way with me where, um, people look at me as this crazy

00:07:28.720 wild man. And that's an extension of my personality on social media. But usually when people meet me,

00:07:34.200 they're like, dude, you're just like a super normal, like mellow guy. I kind of felt that.

00:07:37.980 Cause what do we meet a couple of days ago at knock ons party or whatever? I was like, Oh,

00:07:42.920 you're, you're kind of a normal dude. Yeah. I mean, honestly, outwardly facing,

00:07:45.880 I look like a complete douche bag. And so it's actually nice to be a complete douche bag on the

00:07:49.880 internet. And then when you actually meet me, I'm kind of just, I'm just a dude, man. I'm

00:07:52.980 that's a good way to lower the expectations, right? Yeah, man. I'm just a guy

00:07:56.640 likes to shoot stuff and, uh, have a good time. What do you think? Is there a, uh, is there a

00:08:01.360 persona that you like wear or put on? I don't want to say it's, it's fake. I don't think that's

00:08:06.160 the case, but do you play to that a little bit when you're on social media or YouTube or whatever

00:08:10.340 else? I would say that originally I was, especially when I was younger, when I started social media

00:08:15.900 and I think a lot of people associate me with that certain personality back then I've grown a lot

00:08:20.220 since then. Um, but I love entertainment. I love storytelling. I love, you know, providing value

00:08:25.860 through entertainment to people's lives. And so obviously if I were to sit and talk about how I

00:08:30.600 sit on my Mac computer for 10 hours a day and work, what does that do? So obviously, um, being

00:08:35.840 extension of my personality and kind of making it more fruitful in my, in what I do, then obviously

00:08:41.420 it's, it's going to do better on social media. So, and I don't think it's disingenuous. I think

00:08:46.260 there's a lot of people you can tell like when they're, when they're faking it, right. Or they're,

00:08:50.200 or they're pandering to a certain group of people in order to get likes or follows or whatever it is

00:08:55.160 they're after. Oh, for sure. I mean, I think there's a lot of people that find that niche

00:08:59.020 and they're like, Oh, I think I could do good in this community. And so let me wear this or let

00:09:02.780 me dress up as this. And you know, uh, my entertainment always came from being in the

00:09:07.300 veteran community, the pro two a community, and just being a dude. And that's what I live. I'm a,

00:09:12.660 I'm a shooter, a hunter and a, and like kind of husband and a crazy friend. So I just take what I

00:09:17.940 am and put it out there. Yeah. And which is nice. Cause I never have to really worry about anything.

00:09:21.660 It's, it's really who I am. Well, that's true. There's a, there's a quote and I'm going to

00:09:25.480 butcher it, but if you always tell the truth, you never need to remember what you said or something

00:09:30.340 like that. Right. Cause these guys that go around lying, you have to have to wonder what they told

00:09:34.480 to one person compared to somebody else. And if you just tell the truth and you get to just be who

00:09:38.880 you are. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people out there just want to be part of a certain community

00:09:42.500 and kind of fake it till they make it. And that's fine. I mean, that's one method of business. I just,

00:09:46.580 I don't really associate myself with those people. I mean, I do the things that I want and sometimes

00:09:50.720 they're not, um, advantageous for my professional career, but they're awesome for my personal

00:09:55.040 career. And how so like, what would be an example? Uh, that's a great question. Yeah.

00:10:01.080 You know, I don't know really, because it's some of the, like, um, like the veteran stuff,

00:10:06.860 I've kind of went away from that a lot. And a lot of people are like former army ranger matter,

00:10:10.080 whatever, man, I got the military so long ago. So it's like, that's why I went into the pro

00:10:13.720 to a space. And now that I've obviously I'm always going to be a shooter, but you know,

00:10:17.620 being out here with the archery challenge, getting into bow, bow shooting more and cause

00:10:21.940 I've, I'm so new to it. I'm terrible at it, but I always want to consistently learn. So

00:10:26.020 I, it's kind of that, um, uh, progression of the things that I want to do. And it not,

00:10:30.840 it might not necessarily be the biggest market for me to be in the bow space, but I just love

00:10:35.600 it. I love the people that are part of it. So I'm going to do it, you know, whereas I could

00:10:39.800 go maybe to a different community and get more likes and engagement, but I just don't really

00:10:43.540 care.

00:10:43.780 I almost think that with the veteran community, it's a little bit of like, for lack of a better

00:10:48.680 term, like veteran porn a little bit, right? Like, like, I think there's, there's a lot

00:10:52.720 of guys playing, like over playing to that. Right. And I mean, there's something to be said

00:10:57.300 for being proud of your service and who you are and your background and what you're all

00:11:00.900 about. But I just think it's overused. I think it's, it gets a little overboard at times.

00:11:06.600 You feel the same way or different?

00:11:07.960 No, no, I feel fairly similar. I think that everybody should be proud of their service. And as am I,

00:11:13.020 I'm a guy that, you know, but those are some of my frustrations when you go on like Fox

00:11:17.420 News, right? And they're like, former army ranger, man, I got out of range battalion 11

00:11:21.800 years ago. I'm an entrepreneur. And like, but of course I'm super proud of my service,

00:11:26.460 but as you should, if you went to like Harvard, right? Yeah. You went to Harvard. That's awesome.

00:11:30.460 Let's talk about it. But what are you doing now? How are you defining yourself today? Because

00:11:33.840 you can't live your life for over the four to 10 years that you served in the military and

00:11:38.820 then be 60 and talking about the good old days, how you scored the winning touchdown. Like,

00:11:42.160 no one cares, you know? And so for me, it's always that progression of career and how do I consistently

00:11:47.860 be defined by someone that's has momentum and influence over a community? Um, and trying to

00:11:54.080 just promote good in this world of craziness. Did you have a hard time when you got, how long

00:11:59.360 were you in the military? I was just in for four years in range 9. So did you have a hard time

00:12:04.120 transitioning out? Cause I know I've talked with a lot of guys who identified as, as a warrior,

00:12:10.340 right. As, as, as a ranger or a seal or whatever. And they get out and it's like,

00:12:15.260 that's gone. Now, who am I? For sure. I, uh, I think I've talked a lot about that in my,

00:12:21.580 my career and on social media and stuff. And, you know, I wasn't in the military for the longest time,

00:12:25.480 but you know, I did five deployments and, um, spent a lot of months of my life overseas doing

00:12:31.760 direct action stuff. And, and that's really all I knew. I was talking to Andy stump about this,

00:12:35.980 uh, yesterday on his podcast about how that's how I defined myself from 17 to 23 was just

00:12:41.020 consistent war kind of thing. Yeah. And so when I got out, there was no forethought. There was no

00:12:45.660 planning. There was nothing. I got back from a deployment, my worst, not worst, but the best

00:12:49.960 deployment, the sense of, you know, doing your job, doing my job. Right. Thank you being in the

00:12:54.400 battle. Yeah. Yeah. And then by getting out, I just didn't plan for it because I thought I was just

00:12:59.220 going to stay in forever. And I made a couple of emotional decisions, got out of the military

00:13:02.540 and I, I didn't know what I was going to do. And that really was, uh, hard for me, you know,

00:13:08.800 because I didn't know what to do with my life. And thankfully I had a lot of good friends to kind

00:13:13.560 of guide me on, on what to do. But yeah, I think a lot of people have problems with that transition

00:13:18.500 because it's such a definable moment in your life to be considered, um, a warfighter or, or be filled

00:13:25.020 with such purpose that you feel that nothing will ever fill up that glass again, because what job do you

00:13:30.340 get, you can't go brag about, I build custom cars, you know? Right. Okay. But tell me about that time

00:13:34.740 you shot this terrorist in the face, you know? And so it's really hard to have that sense of purpose

00:13:38.880 and, um, you know, and people aren't as interested, I guess, as that, as, as your service, you know?

00:13:45.200 Yeah, no, I get that for sure. And I think, I mean, especially with podcasting and the rise of

00:13:50.420 social media, I think it's, it's easier for veterans and people that with stories like you're

00:13:54.700 talking about to put themselves out there. Right. And, and people are interested. People want to hear

00:13:58.800 about that stuff, but they don't want to hear about the school teacher. Yeah, I agreed. I,

00:14:03.360 but I think it's great. I, I think that a lot of people recently have been more open to tell their

00:14:08.520 story, which is great because there's a difference between a quiet professional and a silent professional.

00:14:13.100 And obviously, you know, like when I wrote my book, there's three different organizations that

00:14:17.480 cleared at the DOD and a couple other departments. Um, cause you have to make sure operational security

00:14:21.740 is good to go, but I'm, I'm a fan of telling those stories as long as they're honest, but we should,

00:14:26.220 we should kind of subscribe those into history and let people know that there's a fricking war going

00:14:31.320 on today. There's still men and women that are going out in patrols, risking their lives for,

00:14:36.360 for our foreign policy. And we have to remind people of that. And I think that when people

00:14:42.100 have, you know, entertainment, that's veteran based and book based, it's great. Now I don't agree

00:14:48.360 with all of it for sure. There's some things that hyper-freshmate, freshmate me in the community,

00:14:51.720 but a lot of people are doing some good stuff and kind of bringing awareness to the community that

00:14:55.100 we're still in war. Yeah. Still, which I think is valuable because we should know that stuff.

00:14:59.440 And that's what's powerful about social media is we can learn like the truth and other sides that

00:15:03.360 maybe have been filtered out in the past. You said there's a difference though, between a silent

00:15:06.880 and a quiet professional. What's the difference? Well, a silent professional doesn't talk about

00:15:11.680 anything. And I think some people in the community beat people up for, uh, being a successful

00:15:16.400 veteran, especially if it's in the, um, more open space, social media and all of that. Whereas a quiet

00:15:23.400 professional, you know, you're not going to tell the nation's secrets or, you know, which bad guy

00:15:27.580 is shot in the face. It's going to be appropriate. Right. Right. But if you're discussing a theater

00:15:31.040 and then, you know, telling, um, you know, the acts of heroism of people that we worked with,

00:15:36.580 like, that's awesome. I think that those stories should be told. Yeah, I agree with that. I think,

00:15:40.820 I think not enough people know that. And I think there's such a disconnect between the freedoms that

00:15:46.880 we enjoy and those who fight for those freedoms. And because there's that disconnect,

00:15:51.580 there's no appreciation for what we have. Right. Well, it's challenging. We've been at war

00:15:55.800 for so long now that it's kind of become customary to the American culture. But part of that and the

00:16:02.100 issue is that we have not had a massive national security threat here in the U S there's this proxy

00:16:08.620 war way over there. Oh man, that sucks. That guy I heard on the news, some guy died in ID. Like

00:16:13.540 that's what American culture has kind of become. And it's unfortunate because those are people dying for

00:16:18.340 what we've voted into policy. So, um, I think we just need to be reminded, you know, because

00:16:23.160 people are still dying. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I mean, it's, it's really important that we,

00:16:29.140 that, that the American population understands that. Well, of course we got comfortable. A lot

00:16:32.620 of people get freaking comfortable, man. They're just like, they don't every day. This,

00:16:35.940 this is the greatest country ever. And we, we get so many amenities here and so much opportunity

00:16:43.060 that I think sometimes we forget how special this place is. Yeah. And that's kind of been my mission

00:16:47.680 in life is just to show like the amount of sacrifice generation after generation after

00:16:51.280 generation. And that has provided us to sit here, drink a beer up in freaking park city and talk

00:16:56.460 about life. Right. How lucky, how fortunate. Right. You know? And isn't that the point too? I mean,

00:17:00.880 the point is I spent a little time in the militaries and the national guard and then did a, an active

00:17:05.460 duty tour in Iraq in 2005 and 2006. And from that perspective, limited perspective relative to

00:17:12.940 yours, that's the point. The point is, is that we take the battle somewhere else. So the people we

00:17:20.020 love and care about when we have families and community members and neighbors don't have to

00:17:24.160 deal with that. So it's kind of working. Couldn't agree more. You know, it's working, but then that

00:17:28.740 disconnect is, it's gone almost too far, I think. Yeah. That's a, that's a polarizing conversation,

00:17:34.640 right? Because I mean, in one stance you could say, is it worth the, the, the sacrifice of men

00:17:39.960 and women, American men and women to go fight these proxy wars, right? That's a whole political

00:17:44.060 conversation. But then in the same stance, I truly believe that a lot of, um, national threats have

00:17:51.680 been diffused based off of wars in different areas of the world. Meaning that, you know, like we haven't

00:17:57.740 had a 9-11 since 9-11. Right. Thank God. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't, my, my mom is a sweetheart.

00:18:02.940 She's in her sixties. I don't want her to actually have to go to work every day worrying about, you

00:18:07.500 know, a terrorism threat. God, no, like, let me go deal with that. You know, I'm young and full of

00:18:11.860 piss and vinegar. Let's do it. Well, I think that's the point. I mean, that's the whole premise of our,

00:18:15.320 of our podcast in this movement is like men doing what they're supposed to be doing, stepping up and

00:18:20.060 serving in the way we're supposed to. I love it. I mean, it's, it's so funny. And that's, I'm really

00:18:24.020 part of that, which is like why I agree with a lot of stuff you talk about, which it's like,

00:18:28.480 if not me, then who? I love that statement. I forget who said it, but it's true. I mean,

00:18:32.900 you see people in a car crash and people are filming on their phones. I'm like, I want to

00:18:37.880 take them by the back of their head and drag them over there, throw them in the car and pull

00:18:41.380 the person out. And you're like, dude, we have to band together and actually do stuff, be action

00:18:46.340 oriented instead of just like being lazy. And that's unfortunately some part of the culture

00:18:50.820 that we have now. So it's cool to see people that are being progressive in their, in their

00:18:54.400 influence of be a man, like get stuff done. Let's, let's, you know, vote in the name of

00:18:59.240 peace. Right. But if we have to be violent to get it, let's do it. Then that, then so

00:19:02.920 be it. And that's why we have, I think there's a lot of people who would say probably to personalities

00:19:07.060 like you, most, most veterans, I would say that not everything's a war, not everything's

00:19:11.520 a battle, not everything's gardening, you know, and peaceful and ignorant bliss either.

00:19:15.620 So we've got to have both. I don't, I don't think that one approach is a hundred percent

00:19:21.260 right all of the time, but we need warriors and we need thinkers and we need educators

00:19:27.060 and we need workers and we need all of it.

00:19:30.360 Yeah. I mean, I think people are opportunists, right? So, and, and that's part of being a

00:19:35.180 criminal and for someone like me, I mean, that's why I train MMA. I shoot all the time. I hope

00:19:40.580 to never have to use those skill sets ever again. If I never have to get into a bar fight

00:19:44.140 again and I never have to shoot someone ever again, that's awesome. Winning. Love it.

00:19:48.580 Sure. Great. But when a mall is getting shot up or we're having someone that's hitting a

00:19:54.200 woman, you're damn right that I've trained and learned those skill sets to diffuse that

00:19:58.420 super violently if I have to. Right. And it's, it's a good tool to have in your toolbox. And

00:20:03.000 I think everybody should have that sense of, I don't know, safety, I guess that's the way

00:20:08.300 to say it, you know? Yeah. Well, and, and not only that, let's say that, you know, take MMA

00:20:12.200 or tactical shooting or whatever skill set you want to take. Yeah. You hope to never have

00:20:16.620 to use that specific skill set. You have it if you need it, but there's other translatable

00:20:22.580 skills to everyday life that come with those practices. For sure. Discipline, commitment,

00:20:28.380 dedication, focus, teamwork, teamwork, camaraderie, yeah, the whole thing. Right. So you can't make

00:20:33.660 these decisions in a vacuum. So even if you don't use the specific skill set, you're still

00:20:39.460 improving by focusing on those skill sets. Yeah. 100%. That's why I'm a huge advocate for

00:20:45.480 mixed martial arts, whether it's jujitsu, Muay Thai, kickboxing, I think you, you, you

00:20:50.600 understand the diversity of America and how people think different and they act differently,

00:20:55.560 but you come together in one commonality, which would be that fighting. And it's very respectful

00:21:00.560 and it's why I enjoy it so much. And I wish I could do it more if my schedule wasn't so

00:21:03.820 crazy, but I truly love that because you get, you get a sense of understanding and, you know,

00:21:08.800 people are scared of what they don't understand. And the more you can just engage with life as a

00:21:13.980 whole, I think the better person you'll become. Well, I think from the outside looking in,

00:21:17.360 if you just look at any form of mixed martial arts or gorgeous martial arts is that from the

00:21:22.820 outside looking in, it looks violent and it is, it's, it is violence. It's controlled violence,

00:21:26.980 but that's all people see. And they very rarely see the level of respect and camaraderie and

00:21:32.340 brotherhood that goes with it. I just started in jujitsu not too long ago. And that's what I'm

00:21:36.380 finding is that because everybody can kill each other at any given moment, we all respect each other

00:21:42.460 and we respect the growth that comes with it. Yeah. There's a profound respect. And then it's

00:21:46.280 nice to look left and right and be like, I'm glad they're on my team. For sure. I know I've said that

00:21:51.460 about people I've served with and everything that I've done. I'm like, man, I'm super stoked. This

00:21:55.460 dude's on my team. Cause that would really suck if I had to get into a gunfighter with him.

00:22:00.180 Yeah. I think people have a hard time though. And we're talking about skill sets is,

00:22:04.420 is trying new things. Of course, this level of, of ego that we all have, all of us,

00:22:10.260 you and me, everybody where we don't want to put ourselves in positions where we're at the bottom

00:22:15.340 of the totem pole. And so I think that keeps a lot of people from trying things that specifically men,

00:22:20.640 cause I get, I get messages this weekend. I've got so many messages about guys who have said,

00:22:24.200 I want to get into archery. Where do I start? Pick up a bow, like go follow Dudley, a mutual friend

00:22:29.340 of ours. Like, like come to one of these and meet people and get into the industry. Like just go do it.

00:22:35.600 And yet they won't because they're overwhelmed or a little afraid about how they'll perform in any

00:22:40.800 given scenario. I, that's just conditioning your ego because you're never going to be best in class

00:22:45.940 out the gate. Never. I mean, I do things every day that I'm like lowest of the totem pole at,

00:22:51.880 but it's fun because I suck at them. You know, I feel I'm decently exceptional at certain things in

00:22:56.260 my life and I'm absolutely terrible at a lot more things, you know? I mean, but the good thing about

00:23:00.780 today is the internet, it's the information age, right? You can acquire enough skills to at least

00:23:05.800 start the process without having to have like, Oh, there's a paywall. I can't afford to go to

00:23:11.080 college. You know, like I'm in photography classes right now that cost nothing because I'm going

00:23:15.220 through YouTube. Right. And so I'm doing all that and then learning Photoshop and it was just a skill

00:23:19.300 set I wanted to learn. But the only thing that requires from me was effort and time. A little effort.

00:23:24.620 Yeah. And so there's really no restrictions. You have all these like self-built constructs where people say,

00:23:28.700 I can't do it because of this. Why? And I, and I, I fucking hate that. And I'll say that one

00:23:34.140 cuss word in the fricking pot, the podcast, but I just hate that it's, it's pure laziness. And the

00:23:38.800 only reason you're not succeeding at that, or at least being decent at it is because of your own,

00:23:42.780 your own failures, because you're making excuses. You know, I don't know. I just think people should

00:23:48.900 focus more on bettering themselves and doing what they truly want to do in life rather than making

00:23:53.820 excuses and filling with a void of, you know, bullcrap shows or I can't do that. And then

00:23:59.540 they turn on Netflix for four hours. I'm like super easy, man. Watch Netflix for two hours and

00:24:04.000 then take that other two hours and work. Right. Do what you got to do. Right. Because dude,

00:24:08.020 I'm not a smart guy. I'm pretty stupid, but what I lack in intelligence, I make up and grit and work

00:24:12.520 ethic. It's the only reason where I'm at today because I'm, I'm not a smart guy, but I'm like, okay,

00:24:17.280 let's put the pen to the paper and let's work. Let's get it figured out. Yeah. Let's just outgrit

00:24:21.120 people. Yeah. Well, I think that's a, I think it's a skillset too. I don't know. Maybe do you

00:24:26.220 feel like you've always had that or do you feel like you've had to develop that, that level of

00:24:29.460 grit? I've had a little bit of that. I think, uh, Ranger Battalion really instilled that in me.

00:24:33.340 Sure. I think it's one of the greatest units of all time and you have to put in so much work to

00:24:36.820 stay in that unit and, um, and be really tough and resilient. And I think that's really conditioned me

00:24:42.720 as a person. What, uh, so you, did you say you got in when you were 17? Yeah. Were you still in high

00:24:48.300 school or you just graduated or what? I just graduated. I joined the army like two months

00:24:52.540 or something like that after I graduated high school. Yeah. Had you always wanted to be a

00:24:55.760 Ranger or what? Uh, within reason, man. I, I came from a big military family. Like all my great

00:25:00.720 uncles were like world war two badasses. My dad's a Marine, my two brothers Marines. Really? Yeah.

00:25:05.200 I come from a huge family and I just wanted to go do something special. And I was very competitive

00:25:09.000 with my brothers and their Marines infantrymen. And I was like, what can I do? And then I saw Black Hawk

00:25:13.580 down. I'm like, those guys look cool. Yeah, for sure. So are your brothers still in the

00:25:18.740 military? No, no, they're, they've been out forever. My, my brother actually just one of

00:25:22.740 them, uh, graduated nursing school. Oh, this is pretty rad. He had cancer back in the day,

00:25:26.860 um, which I talk about in the book, crazy fricking story. And that's how he got into the medical

00:25:30.820 field. Pretty much, man. He, he was, uh, um, he broke a couple of world records in powerlifting

00:25:36.160 after the military and then always want to get into pediatric oncology, which was like, what a,

00:25:40.580 what a sad profession, but he's a really great dude. Yeah. And, but he has an experience as far

00:25:45.980 as being a cancer patient himself going through all that. And he's got a sweetheart. So it's really

00:25:49.880 cool to see him progress towards that goal to like help out that. And I, what a better place

00:25:54.940 and to help children that deserve a second chance at life. Yeah, man, I can't, I can't like, I look at

00:25:59.980 my kids. Do you guys have kids yet? No, I look at my kids. I've got four and I think about some of

00:26:05.500 those experiences and I'm like, man, I don't know what I would do in that situation. I've had friends

00:26:09.660 who've gone through it. One, one very close friend whose son is, is battling it right now.

00:26:13.960 And it's like, breaks my heart, man. I don't know how they deal with that.

00:26:17.280 It's sad. I mean, you know, even at 32, I think I've lived a pretty epic life. So you kind of want

00:26:22.220 to give that life to someone that's deserving and gives a shot to laugh and know what love is and

00:26:28.060 know what friendship is and know what the mountains of Utah look like. You kind of want to give them that

00:26:32.660 opportunity to just experience life because crap, man, it's a special thing.

00:26:36.340 Yeah, for sure. You said that, uh, you made an emotional, a couple of emotional decisions when

00:26:42.160 you were getting out. Do you feel like you made the right decision? I mean, I don't know if you

00:26:45.880 want to share that or what some of those decisions were. I don't think I've ever made a wrong decision.

00:26:49.200 Like I truly don't. Cause I made a lot of stupid decisions and incorrect decisions, but, uh, you know,

00:26:54.580 all of those have really built the path that put me where I am today. If I would have been in the

00:26:58.360 military, I probably would have been a career guy if I didn't get out for the reason I got out.

00:27:01.420 And, uh, I wouldn't be able to like co-found black Eiffel coffee and, you know, have the influence

00:27:06.460 over American culture that we do today. So, I mean, I'm just, I'm super thankful for it. I mean,

00:27:11.220 again, I made some stupid decisions, but I don't really think that they were incorrect.

00:27:15.780 How did you, how did you reconcile that? Cause I know there's a lot of guys who are listening who

00:27:20.140 have regrets and think, Oh, I made this past decision. Unlike you, they dwell on it. Right. And

00:27:25.500 they think my life's over or I can't ever get back on top of things. Cause I did this one stupid

00:27:29.600 thing when I was 20 years old or whatever. Now my life's over. It's not though, because I've been

00:27:35.220 in that, I've been in that, um, in that perspective in my own mind, you know, when I got out, I was

00:27:39.700 super depressed for like two years and went through a lot of terrible amount of alcoholism and other

00:27:44.340 stuff. And, um, really it took some friends to get me out of it, but ultimately those aren't things

00:27:50.820 that define the rest of your life. They're guidelines for you where you can go with it, but that it's what's

00:27:56.060 today is your fricking day to go succeed and be epic. Not what you did yesterday. If you're an

00:28:00.720 asshole yesterday, then don't be an asshole today. It's super easy. Consistency is what builds

00:28:05.620 character. So the more you do the thing you want to be, you become that thing. Everybody messes up.

00:28:10.760 Everybody's been a douche. Everybody's been a liar and a cheat at some point in their life,

00:28:14.500 but it's a matter of, does that define you? And do you live to that standard? Or are you going to make

00:28:18.240 your character defined by who you want to be? And that requires work and a decision and a decision.

00:28:23.120 Like there's so many people who just live in default mode. Like, well, I guess,

00:28:28.080 I guess this is what I'm just destined to be or destined to do. There's nothing I can do about it.

00:28:32.400 It's easy. Totally. It's easy. And people like being comfortable. We all do. We all like,

00:28:37.660 I complain when there's not wifi in an airplane. Are you kidding me? Shut up, Matt.

00:28:42.720 For sure. And it's just conditioning and people don't want to be uncomfortable. And I think

00:28:47.560 something I've done okay with my life is being okay with being uncomfortable and being in those

00:28:53.420 awkward situations. And you kind of realize how to deal with them. And that breeds like, okay,

00:28:58.120 I'll go try more new things and experience life and suck at things and fail at things. But that gives

00:29:03.340 me the opportunity to learn and just make me a better person. That's actually one of the things

00:29:07.300 I wanted to talk about. Cause you, as you were talking about doing new things, uh, again,

00:29:12.120 we were talking about a little bit of fear with, with guys trying something new and being on the

00:29:15.260 bottom of the totem pole. But I imagine, I know it is for me. I don't want to put words in your

00:29:18.960 mouth, but I imagine a lot of the reasons that you can do this, that I can do this getting into

00:29:23.460 new things is because there's a level of, of hope in the fact that we've been at the bottom pole of

00:29:29.940 the totem pole and other areas. And we've seen how far we've climbed. So we have some level of hope

00:29:35.320 or faith in our own ability to grow and get better. Listen, everybody was a baby one time and you

00:29:40.480 didn't know shit. Right. Well, I guess you did. Cause you're pooping yourself. Yeah. You knew that.

00:29:44.500 That's the one thing you knew. And everything was like nature versus nurture, but you, you learned

00:29:49.020 all those things across the way. And you know, when people say you can't learn things, you can't,

00:29:52.900 you know, teach an old dog. No way, dude, you can learn until you're, you're dead. So yeah,

00:29:57.680 I don't, I don't agree with that whatsoever. I mean, tell me 10 years ago, I'd be a business owner

00:30:02.580 and executive in a company. What? No. You know? So it just, it happens with hard work and then you

00:30:08.960 realize what you suck at. You hire people to cover down core competencies that you suck at and then

00:30:13.280 do what you're great at and build an Epic team and you can be successful at anything.

00:30:17.780 What was your, uh, what was your first project or, or leap into the entrepreneurial space? It was a,

00:30:24.740 was it article 15 clothing or was it, was there something?

00:30:27.380 It's actually, uh, it was, no one knows about it. I actually, uh, helped out with a, um,

00:30:31.440 powerlifting company cause my brother used to powerlift back in the day. So I got into t-shirt

00:30:35.040 printing and design. I'm failed horribly. I spent all my savings on like 400 shirts. It's all I could

00:30:41.560 afford. Misprinted the shirts and gotten like a legal dispute and obviously didn't have a contract.

00:30:46.540 So now you had 400 shirts you're sitting on that couldn't sell. I've been there. I did that like

00:30:51.340 very early on. I had, it wasn't 400. It was like a hundred or 200 shirts that another company came

00:30:57.460 in and said, Hey dude, like this looks just like ours. In hindsight, I'm like, yeah, it kind of does.

00:31:02.520 And I had to burn to 200 shirts. I'm like, wow, sucks. You got to learn that stuff.

00:31:06.640 It's the feeding, but yeah, no, the real, the real one was yeah. Art 15 and doing that.

00:31:11.140 Yeah. Which was, which was a fun, fun journey. And did that, did that feed off of your first

00:31:16.320 attempt with, with clothing and design in the powerlifting space? Like did that evolve from

00:31:21.240 there? Yes and no. I mean, when I met Jared Taylor, he had a t-shirt, like a really small,

00:31:26.320 he's doing like tack P t-shirts, like, um, warheads and foreheads kind of thing. Okay. And really it was

00:31:32.220 our first goal at how do we create a revenue channel that can support, um, us to buy a better

00:31:37.860 camera or a new mic. It wasn't in the entrepreneurial sense of how do I become rich and successful? It

00:31:43.640 was, how do I fund this merely just, it'd be cool to get an extra 500 bucks a month so I could buy a

00:31:48.960 new camera and create, cause we just wanted to create, create, that's all we cared about was

00:31:52.060 making friends laugh. And you know, really, which was cool because the passion of creating is why I

00:31:57.600 think it did so well. Like our motives weren't to make money. It was just to make people laugh.

00:32:03.780 Right. And so that was the focus, but subsequently that made us do an okay, uh, uh, stint in that,

00:32:09.540 in that company. I mean, that's, that's, that's natural, right? Yeah. Money's just a measurement

00:32:14.260 of perceived value. So if you're making people laugh and you're valuable, then they're going to

00:32:18.040 pay for it. Yeah. 100%. So are you, do you still have that company or I do actually,

00:32:24.980 it's interesting. I, uh, I, I recently done some restructuring with some ownership and I will

00:32:31.240 actually be taking that company back very soon. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm not going to like focus a

00:32:35.200 bunch on it, but it'd be really fun to kind of, uh, reinvigorate a little bit and get some cool

00:32:38.700 t-shirts out there. I got a couple ideas. Do you, I'm excited. Are you, so are you, do you do the

00:32:42.600 design work yourself? I mean, I'm sure you have a team now, but were you doing a lot of the design

00:32:46.040 work initially? Yeah. I mean, that's really my, my space is marketing and brand and all that jazz,

00:32:51.200 uh, even with black rifle coffee. Yeah. It's, I still cover down in that department quite often.

00:32:55.480 We have amazing team and amazing designers. You have to, based on what I see, I'm like,

00:33:00.180 man, these guys have a solid crew behind them. Yeah. No, they're phenomenal. Cause it kind of

00:33:03.960 I'll call and they're so resilient in their work ethic. Like I'll call them like, or text them at

00:33:08.000 11 30 PM, like an a hole. I'm like, what if there was like an elk and then it's riding a moon and

00:33:13.660 there's a spaceship and they're like, Roger, I'll get back to you tomorrow in that design, you know,

00:33:18.380 they're, they're, they're kick-ass. But, um, again, we're, I'm so, we're so fortunate to have

00:33:22.820 such a cool team. This is kind of a rhetorical question, but I know people probably think about

00:33:27.800 this is like, I see all the stuff you guys put out with black rifle coffee and everything's,

00:33:31.880 it just seems like you nail everything, but I imagine what I'm saying, like, it seems like that.

00:33:38.560 And, and, but I imagine there's been a lot of missteps and flops and failures along the way.

00:33:44.920 And I think it's important that we talk about that too, because social media is known for the

00:33:49.740 highlight reel. Right. And then all these people have false expectations about, Oh, I want to get

00:33:53.860 into a business. And if it doesn't work out, then maybe it's just not meant to be. It's like,

00:33:58.000 no, it just means that one project didn't work out. You just got to try something different.

00:34:01.180 Oh, things fail all the time. I mean, for, for, for you to think that a company,

00:34:04.880 even like black rifle doesn't put out trash content we have, but what you do is you kind of have

00:34:10.000 gates as far as brand awareness to, to make sure that they pass those gates. You know,

00:34:14.560 I'm the acting chief branding officer at black rifle as well as my other position. So like,

00:34:18.920 you know, when it comes to that, I can do the final approval and that's why we really nail

00:34:23.100 things. And then you have a lot of Epic dudes like Logan Stark, who's the veteran chief where,

00:34:26.980 you know, based off of priority thing, he, he manages so much and gets so much Epic stuff out,

00:34:31.440 but that was a three-year process, you know, mentoring and, and getting him in line with that.

00:34:36.120 And, um, but the, the projects that really suck, that's where you have to have a good team.

00:34:40.440 They just, you never show face. Like I've, I've deleted projects that we've put thousands of

00:34:45.160 dollars into and we thought it was going to be Epic or ideas where we spent a weekend on filming

00:34:50.900 and you get to that final point and you're like, dude, this sucks. And instead of putting it out,

00:34:56.660 I just chalk that loss up and go moving on. That's tuition. Yeah. Cause I'm, I'm quality over

00:35:01.720 quantity. I'd rather put something out every three months and feel good about it. Then,

00:35:06.120 you know, crap something out every week and just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm not that dude.

00:35:11.140 Yeah. How do you, how do you deal with it internally when there's a difference of opinion

00:35:16.240 with, no, this is, this is great content. And no, this sucks. Like, how do you, you just work

00:35:21.660 through it and have faith and rely on each other or defer to each other? Or how does that work?

00:35:25.720 That's a great question. You know, I really, uh, fortunately Evan and I, you know,

00:35:30.540 kind of the two final voices in the company are very in line. And I think we both have the

00:35:37.340 amount of emotional intelligence that's required to sit down, even though we're very sincere about

00:35:43.220 or very adamant on something just to, just to discuss it. And if someone is hyper passionate

00:35:48.320 about it, but I disagree with it, we're like, all right, that's on you. Try to be, but then we're

00:35:53.580 going to do an AR, right? Then we're going to do an AR and, and, and then vice versa. If I do that

00:35:58.200 and he's like, I don't like this. I'm like, but these are all the reasons like, all right,

00:36:01.340 send it, man. But AR. And so it's kind of that, um, the round table post analysis of why that didn't

00:36:07.500 work, why it did work. How do we want to structure that going forward? And right. But you just need

00:36:11.740 people that are okay with hyper amounts of criticism. If you have emotional people that are

00:36:16.800 like, it's my project, it's mine. People just don't understand me. No, you just can't have that.

00:36:22.380 Like if it sucked, it sucked. I don't care if you thought it was the greatest thing ever. Yeah. It sucked.

00:36:26.740 Yeah. You guys both seem to be pretty level-headed, which I imagine if you guys were emotional,

00:36:31.660 it'd be a whole different story. We'd be having a whole different conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Because

00:36:35.960 you get those egos going, you get the emotions going, people get their little pet projects and

00:36:39.800 think they're cooler than they really are. And, and for us, it's the success of the company matters

00:36:45.480 most and the vitality of it and ensuring that we meet our mission of hiring 10,000 veterans and then

00:36:50.380 rolling out this franchise program that we've discussed. Like that's, what's most important. I don't,

00:36:55.500 if Evan tomorrow or anybody in the company came up with an idea that created 700 more jobs,

00:37:01.540 I wouldn't be like, Oh, that's a stupid, no, that's so epic, man. Like I don't care if it's

00:37:05.400 my idea. The mission comes first. Like we got to kill the HVT. It doesn't matter how it gets done.

00:37:10.960 If the A-10s do it or if the private shoots them, like as long as the mission is destroyed,

00:37:15.700 accomplished, like America wins, you know, like that's my stance on it. But a lot of people aren't

00:37:20.580 that way for some reason. Man, let me break away from the conversation here. Just very,

00:37:25.740 very briefly. Uh, if you're not familiar with origin, Maine, I'm sure if you've been listening

00:37:29.600 to this podcast for any amount of time you are, because I've been talking about them for months

00:37:33.020 and there's a reason for that. And I really encourage you to get familiar with them as soon

00:37:37.260 as you can, because whether you're into Brazilian jujitsu or not, that's completely irrelevant.

00:37:42.180 They do so much more than make geese and rash guards. Their goal is to flat out restore

00:37:48.040 American manufacturing. And, and they're doing that here in new England with their new denim line,

00:37:53.380 uh, which I have a pair and I can tell you, they are absolutely incredible. Uh, their boot line,

00:37:58.540 which I'm going to be making a pair of boots here before too long. And then also Jocko supplements.

00:38:02.600 Uh, they are doing just that restoring American manufacturing. I use their supplements quite a

00:38:08.200 bit, specifically their super krill, uh, their joint warfare. I've really, really enjoyed,

00:38:13.060 especially for the aging and aching joints since ramping up my jujitsu training. Uh, I use their

00:38:19.980 milk, which is a protein supplement and then their new product. They've got a new product out this

00:38:24.240 week. It's a cognitive enhancement, uh, energy drink, and it's called discipline go, which I

00:38:29.680 actually really, really like. So if you're looking to add some supplements, uh, to your nutritional

00:38:34.680 and exercise lineup, then go check out Jocko's products by origin, Maine. And when you do use the code

00:38:41.660 order or D E R at checkout to get a 10% discount again, head to origin, Maine.com and use the code

00:38:49.120 order at checkout. You can do that after the show for now. We'll finish up my conversation with Matt.

00:38:55.400 Well, I think it's ego. Oh, for sure. Like they, they, they would rather be,

00:39:00.060 they would rather it fail and hang on to their misguided sense of pride. Yeah. Then it's their

00:39:07.400 fault. It was his fault. It was her fault. Instead of being like, maybe you're messed up, man.

00:39:11.660 Maybe it's your fault. And I've done that in business, man. Like art 15 kind of took a dump

00:39:15.580 and I, and I pretty open about it in the book and you know, I blamed a lot of other people

00:39:20.320 for a long time. And then it took me a lot of maturity to sit back and go, maybe I was

00:39:25.760 terrible as a leader. And I started thinking like, wow, there was a lot of disagreements

00:39:30.180 and there's a lot of different opinions on the, where we should go, but I didn't bring

00:39:34.780 everybody together, have those discussions, be the leader that I know I can be. And that's

00:39:40.400 why it felt. Yeah. It's on me. And that was like disheartening a little bit. Cause you're

00:39:44.260 like, Oh, I'm kind of the screw up here. Yeah. But what a fricking learning lesson,

00:39:47.820 you know? Now when I see that, like, like what was there, was there one pivot moment?

00:39:52.220 I'm failing. Is that, so you're like, I got to figure this out.

00:39:54.740 I'm so competitive, dude. I'm so competitive. And I, and I always want to understand why,

00:39:58.120 cause it's easy to just go blame it on other people. But when you sit and part of it's like,

00:40:01.740 I'm a weirdo. I like meditate in my sauna after my gym workouts and stuff. And I really try to just

00:40:06.360 internalize things and figure them out. Like, why did I do this? Why am I acting this? I do that

00:40:11.080 with my marriage. I do that with work, with business, with everything.

00:40:14.420 I had this guy reach out to me, I think it was yesterday. And he said something like

00:40:17.800 he felt bad. He, he blew up or something and blew up with his wife. And I'm like,

00:40:22.660 yeah, well time to reflect on it and figure out what happened.

00:40:25.300 Yeah. Go own it. Go own it. Well, and then he's like, well,

00:40:27.400 I've been reflecting and it hurts. I'm like, good, good. It's supposed to. Heck yeah.

00:40:31.340 Like if it didn't hurt, if it didn't sting, if you being an asshole to your wife,

00:40:35.760 there wasn't any remorse in that. Would you learn anything? Would you grow? I think there's

00:40:39.820 this really weird notion that everything's got to be smooth and everybody's got to be happy and

00:40:44.040 everything's got to feel good. Conflict is good sometimes. It really is. I think that you need

00:40:49.220 conflict because it incites emotion and emotion within reason. If you understand it can really

00:40:54.720 create epic things. But the problem is, is people don't want conflict. And so they let a resentment

00:41:00.440 happen. And then we have world war two explode, you know, whether it's a relationship or business

00:41:05.400 rather than just having a little disagreement. Right. That's manageable. That's manageable.

00:41:10.180 Absolutely. And it's okay to be messed up sometimes. Like we're humans. We're all

00:41:14.020 screwed up. We're all kind of a-holes sometimes. It's the way it works.

00:41:16.880 I think about that when I'm thinking about my kids. I'm like, man, what am I doing to my kids?

00:41:21.440 I feel like I'm screwing them all up. I'm like, I probably am to some degree. And at some point

00:41:25.120 they're going to have to relearn a lot of the crap I've taught them. Hopefully I give them some

00:41:29.960 sort of foundation. Now they'll be all right. They'll figure it out. They're resilient.

00:41:35.940 Yeah. One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is, and you actually alluded to this

00:41:40.900 with Black Rifle is, I can't imagine it's just about selling coffee. Right? Like, I mean,

00:41:47.820 that's obviously a part of it. It's a great commodity, but no.

00:41:50.480 But it's bigger than that. Right? I mean, what is the ultimate vision? Like,

00:41:55.860 what is it that's driving you guys? Because it could be coffee or it could be energy drinks or it

00:42:00.540 could be shirts or whatever. But what is it ultimately that's driving you guys?

00:42:05.480 Community for sure. I think, uh, coffee is such a good steward of community in the sense of,

00:42:11.640 uh, you know, every time you have coffee, you, you come together in the morning, whether it's

00:42:16.440 deer camp, whether it's coffee in the morning with your wife, before you take out the kids to

00:42:20.960 Disneyland, it's always that kind of social moment where you come together as a family.

00:42:25.140 And I think that that's the undertone of what Black Rifle coffee is, is we're building a community

00:42:29.480 and I won't get spun up about it, but part of it is just like, I appreciate America so much.

00:42:34.360 It's the land of free home, the brave, like the land of opportunity. You can do anything and

00:42:38.220 everything you want. You want to be a doctor, go do it. You want to be your, whatever sexual

00:42:41.780 preference you have. I don't care. You can do it. It's America. It's fricking awesome, man.

00:42:45.660 And so I just hate that progressive culture is kind of like dampering that. And they're not an

00:42:52.240 appreciative of like the American flag. And so it's kind of our way of building this community

00:42:57.740 and this movement saying, dude, we're all about freedom. And that freedom is yours to go enjoy,

00:43:02.500 whether you're a hunter, a hiker, you know, all of that stuff. And the sacrifice associated with

00:43:07.700 the community of the veterans and everything since, you know, the revolutionary war, like how much

00:43:11.860 sacrifice went into us just sitting here and drinking a beer, right? I'm only drinking the

00:43:14.880 beer. I know you're not, but fair enough. Thank you. You get what I'm saying. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

00:43:19.720 Yeah. Um, well, I think, yeah, it is, it is valuable. And one of the things that you guys do very,

00:43:25.420 very well is, and I'm sure it's just an extension of who you guys are, but from the outside,

00:43:29.940 again, looking in, it's, it's very politically incorrect. Right. But I love it. I think that's

00:43:35.520 everybody has a sense of reverence. You know, it's so funny when people say that are like,

00:43:39.480 are not in the military community, like you can't make that joke. You know, you can't say something

00:43:43.140 like that about PTSD. I'm like, you weren't in the community. I can say whatever, whatever I want.

00:43:47.540 Yeah. And like, yeah. And I think we have to be less sensitive and understand humor is humor and

00:43:52.320 humor is a, it's such an amazing, um, coping mechanism for life because life is dark, it's messed up.

00:43:58.920 And we all die. Right. You know? So yeah, it's grim. Right. You kind of got to laugh at it. When

00:44:04.080 you sit back and look at it, you're like, Ooh, this is real messed up. Like a volcano or an asteroid

00:44:08.280 could kill the whole earth tomorrow. Right. Maybe I'm just going to laugh a little bit and enjoy the

00:44:12.820 special time I had with my family on this place called earth. Why, why do you think people are,

00:44:17.880 are so serious about stuff? Like why, why, and not only serious, but incapable of discernment.

00:44:25.140 It's like, you might say what would be dubbed an inappropriate joke. And it's like,

00:44:29.160 it's obviously a joke. It's not meant to be. I think it's cool right now. It's cool to be upset.

00:44:35.100 Yeah. I think it's cool. And the victim hood, it gets attention and you see that across the board,

00:44:40.080 pity me, pity me. It gets attention. It gets sympathy and it kind of strokes the backbone of like,

00:44:44.980 Oh my God. So if I'm a victim, people will, will give me an extra couple of likes on my Facebook

00:44:50.260 post. And I just think that people have been conditioned that way, but I don't really believe

00:44:54.960 that people are that way. I think that's just kind of how the culture's moved. But the people

00:45:00.040 that you say, you can't, you can't say that I'm non-binary in my, or whatever at their, their

00:45:05.240 office, they go home and make the most disgusting, hateful joke in their apartment. So I'm like,

00:45:11.560 where's the line, bro? Like, where's the line, you know? And you can draw that, I guess,

00:45:15.580 if you own the corporate entity, but that's the ecosystem. We try to build a black rifle. It's okay

00:45:19.200 to be a little irreverent as long as you're not like hurtful and like, you know, messing with

00:45:23.980 somebody like in being hateful. And it's not, that's, it's not done for the right, the wrong

00:45:28.540 reason. The wrong reasons. Yeah. There's, there's good intentions. And that's subjective of course,

00:45:32.220 but I think that there's so much crap out there. It's just, it's just stupid. Well, and bottom line

00:45:37.160 is, is if you don't like it, just go buy coffee somewhere else, move on, whatever, move on. Don't

00:45:43.000 care. Don't watch your business. But, but it's interesting though, because people won't move on. Like I've,

00:45:46.940 I think I saw a video, I think it was you, you were listening to like a voicemail or something

00:45:52.460 from somebody. Was that you? Yeah. It was great. Yeah. And it's like, dude, if you were really

00:45:57.280 up that set. I'm going to burn down your coffee company. I'm going to tell all my friends.

00:46:02.100 And that's, you know, I tried to do stuff where I just laughed at it. I'm like, man, this dude is so

00:46:05.660 spun up. And invested in you. Think about how much time he took out of his day. And then not only that,

00:46:13.320 you turned it into a very cool thing for you guys, right? Like you probably sold more coffee

00:46:19.540 because of that. Who knows? But yeah, you want, I kind of want to call that dude up and be like,

00:46:23.560 you know, that hour or two you spent spun up about me should have taken your wife to a nice dinner and

00:46:28.320 been a better husband or a better father or kids. Like you really care about some e-com business that's

00:46:33.360 selling coffee, making silly, stupid jokes in the internet. Like get over it. I think it's because

00:46:38.080 we don't have enough real shit to worry about. We don't agree. Everything is so comfortable. So

00:46:44.560 easy. I'm sitting in here and you said it earlier. You're like, you know, if you're uncomfortable,

00:46:48.020 I'm like, man, it's a little warm in here. I'm like a little warm in here. What am I complaining

00:46:51.880 about? And so, but you talked about that entitlement level, dude. Everybody does it, you know?

00:46:58.140 And we need, I think we as human beings need that, that conflict. Right. And so if we don't have

00:47:03.280 the natural conflict in our lives, we'll make things up to be conflicted about.

00:47:07.780 Yeah, dude. Like a thousand years ago, we're stabbing each other in the heart with spears,

00:47:11.440 you know? And now we're like being able to drink and eat whatever we want.

00:47:16.720 At any time. At any time. It's ridiculous. Yeah. People need conflict, but you have to

00:47:20.200 understand where to put that conflict, you know? Right. Put it in creative, put it in, you know,

00:47:24.680 hobbies. Meaning. In something, yeah, meaningful. So. With, with hobbies. So you, what,

00:47:30.200 you had an archery, what, a couple of years ago? Has it been even that long?

00:47:32.820 I think I got my first bow like, yeah, a year and a half ago.

00:47:36.100 How did you get introduced? Really? Uh, I think Hoyt had reached out to us mainly through Dudley

00:47:41.420 and like any of those guys. And, um, you know, they kind of just showed us what archery is about.

00:47:47.060 I'm like, man, this is a cool sport. And immediately when I picked a bow up, I thought, man, this is just

00:47:52.120 like pistol shooting. And I love pistol shooting because it requires active thought because the second

00:47:57.140 you get lazy, you start throwing bullets everywhere or rifle shooting is a lot easier because you have

00:48:01.540 a more stable position. I just, I, I dug it and I am a nobody in that. And I shoot in my backyard and

00:48:08.760 that's about it, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm excited to see the progression of archery

00:48:12.280 because it's growing and us being a part of it. It is cool. I've, I've, I've been involved. I had

00:48:16.940 a buddy of mine, Colin Cottrell. He invited me on a deer hunt in 2017. He's like, Hey, you want to

00:48:22.280 come on a deer hunt? I'm like, I don't, I don't hunt dude. He's like, I know. That's why I want you

00:48:25.780 to come. And he's like, it's a bow hunt. I'm like, I don't have a bow. He's like, I know. That's what

00:48:30.200 I want you to do. Get into bow hunting. So I went and got a bow and went down there and fell in love

00:48:34.860 with it, man. It's been awesome. Yeah. Again, I just love all those things where you can share them

00:48:38.540 with your friends, you know, and I'm so fortunate to like be best friends with pretty much my business

00:48:42.680 partners and a lot of the guys that work at the office. So it's cool when a lot of them get into bow

00:48:47.840 shooting. Cause then when we get together after work, we get to talk about work, but then we're out there

00:48:52.820 slinging arrows at a target or putting the T-Rex target up and doing crazy stuff. Do you guys

00:48:58.300 have a T-Rex target? Well, we don't have one. I'm buying one because those things are fricking

00:49:01.840 awesome. Someone has one and we shot and it's fricking rad. That's awesome. They're super

00:49:06.460 expensive though. I'm like, man, I bought, I bought a couple of targets for, cause we just moved to

00:49:11.260 Maine about a month ago and we've got some property and I bought five targets. I'm like, dude, those are,

00:49:16.440 they're expensive. They're worth it if you get the good ones. I don't know which are the greatest

00:49:21.040 companies, but I bought a few at like local shops that are 80 bucks and the weather, they just get

00:49:25.460 destroyed. You get a little rain or heat and it just, you know, that Texas weather, bro, it just

00:49:30.300 rips people apart. Hail storms and sunshine all in one day. Did you, now you guys moved, Black Rifle

00:49:36.740 was, was here, right? Your headquarters was here. And then you moved to San Antonio, what a year or so

00:49:41.600 ago? Yeah. A little over a year. So were you always in Texas or were you here too? Well, I lived in El Paso

00:49:46.700 before when we started the company and then I moved to Salt Lake city, lived up here for two years

00:49:51.820 and then we wanted to open our corporate headquarters in Texas. But really right now

00:49:56.240 there's three offices that are all equally Epic. You know, we have the San Antonio office,

00:50:01.080 the Salt Lake city office, and then our Manchester, Tennessee office. So production comes out of Salt

00:50:05.360 Lake city in Manchester and then really just executives, finance and operations, um, are down in

00:50:10.160 San Antonio. Yeah. That's cool, man. So, um, with, with the business itself, like what are,

00:50:16.800 what are some of the lessons that you've learned as far as, as far as growth, as far as running the

00:50:23.060 business itself? Like what are some pitfalls and some lessons that you've learned over the past

00:50:26.840 several years? That's a loaded question. I know. And it's, and it's probably maybe too broad of a

00:50:30.940 question. I mean, there's so much to be, to learn from that, I guess. And so much information you could

00:50:35.220 share there. I guess the, I would just say business is tough and you have to be gritty and

00:50:39.800 resilient. I mean, we've had massive failures, massive successes. I mean, we grew really,

00:50:44.420 really fast, especially post year one exploded. And it was going from seven employees to a hundred

00:50:49.580 employees in managing that understanding what an HR department is. And it's, you know, it's hard,

00:50:55.740 but it's so rewarding, but you just got to put in the work and realize that if you want to be

00:50:59.460 successful, it requires a little bit of, um, craziness and a lot of sleepless nights.

00:51:04.480 Yeah, for sure. Do you guys, do you feel like you're on the trajectory that you want to be on?

00:51:09.800 Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, we, we've, we've made a lot of smart moves and sense of professionalizing

00:51:15.080 the company, you know, um, getting a, a, a legit CFO and COO bringing in Tom Davin, the former CEO

00:51:21.200 of five 11 to be our co-CEO. Oh really? I didn't know that. Yeah. He came in, he's been on board now

00:51:25.760 for about five months and really, cause how are we going to open up a franchise program, brick and

00:51:30.960 mortar strategy without having that experience, you know? So bringing guys in that have 30 years in

00:51:36.100 business and amazing business acumen, like that's the people we need to run it. So let's take

00:51:41.540 no, no money off the table, essentially hire the right people to keep this thing going and make it

00:51:46.600 a legacy rather than a flash in a pan. Is, so are you doing the franchise right now with anyone?

00:51:51.620 Yeah, we have one with the, it was a bison, bison, uh, what's that? What's the company?

00:51:56.780 Bison union. Are you working with them?

00:51:58.260 Yeah, that's a partnership. We have a, uh, coffee store down with them down in Wyoming,

00:52:01.660 nine land apparel down in Savannah, Georgia was their first ever franchise, which is pretty cool.

00:52:06.960 Cause that's kind of, um, just feeling out the pain points there and the successful,

00:52:10.460 they've been awesome partners. So they're selling black rifle.

00:52:13.880 They have a black coffee shop in their headquarters. I see. Okay. And we're probably

00:52:18.420 gonna do a couple more with them. And then, uh, yeah, we've got some really cool things coming

00:52:21.960 down the pipe. They take a little longer than you, than we initially suspected, but I'd rather do it

00:52:26.180 right than do it quick and wrong. And I imagine the bigger the company gets, the harder it is not only an

00:52:31.560 navigate, but to move and to, to pivot and to try new things. I imagine that gets more of a challenge

00:52:37.220 as you, as you grow. Um, yes and no. I think that really Evan and I are kind of crazy. And since,

00:52:44.880 and if we're going to be the, the, the two owners kind of in charge, as long as we don't buy a blimp

00:52:49.780 and try to like, you know, throw a Prius off of it, uh, we're going to be okay.

00:52:52.940 Which actually sounds like something you guys might do.

00:52:54.660 I know. I want to do that.

00:52:56.260 Cause I've seen the, is it a Prius with a minigun that you guys threw on top?

00:52:59.700 Yeah. I see. I see that.

00:53:00.800 It was so sick. Shout out to Richard Ryan for helping build that thing. It was so cool.

00:53:04.340 Do you guys, so do you guys still like, you guys still have that around using your videos

00:53:07.500 and stuff?

00:53:08.260 Yeah. We still have the Prius. It's down in, in Vegas right now, but yeah.

00:53:11.120 So what, what's the story with the minigun? Like, is that like, how does that, do you own

00:53:15.260 that gun and, and it's, it's legal and like, how does, of course, everything we do is legal.

00:53:19.940 I mean, I know it's legal, but like, do you have to get certain, certain permission? I don't

00:53:24.380 even know the term I'm looking for.

00:53:25.080 I'll give you the reader's digest version. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a company that we work

00:53:28.380 with bought the non-functional A-10. Um, yeah, I think, no, it was from an A-10. I believe

00:53:34.320 it was an A-10.

00:53:34.700 Okay. Yeah.

00:53:35.120 Yeah. Minigun. And then they got it, which didn't work, but they had a weapons manufacturing

00:53:39.940 license. So they were able to build the firing mechanism and build a complete one for it.

00:53:45.060 Yeah. Then with one of our guys who has their manufacturing license, we came together, they

00:53:50.040 build it out, filed the ATF paperwork, got it all done legally, mounted, and then boom,

00:53:54.620 there we have it.

00:53:55.060 It's so rad.

00:53:55.900 Yeah. A lot of paperwork that I didn't have to deal with.

00:53:57.840 Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, there's gotta be, when I saw that for the first time,

00:54:01.240 I'm like, there's gotta, I don't know if that gun doesn't work or like, there's gotta be

00:54:05.340 something.

00:54:05.580 Oh, it works. Dude. I went down to this guy, this guy called dangerous bomb. He's hilarious.

00:54:09.840 We're sitting behind the Prius and we hadn't shot it yet on the actual thing. And I'm like,

00:54:14.420 how dangerous is this? And he goes, that's dangerous. I'm like, dude, you're supposed to be

00:54:18.060 the professional here. And he's like, well, let's just hope it doesn't spin around and kill

00:54:21.560 us all.

00:54:21.960 That's what I was wondering, like if it would affect.

00:54:24.920 So we're all in the prone, just send it, man. I'm obviously all liability where it was just

00:54:30.160 us. So we, we accepted the risk of course. Uh, but yeah, do you shoot it at all when it's

00:54:34.220 dry? Have you ever shot it when it's driving?

00:54:36.480 No, it dude, it rocks that Prius back.

00:54:38.040 That's what I was going to say.

00:54:38.640 Would it do?

00:54:39.260 It's an electric firing mechanism.

00:54:41.460 Oh, so you're not even up there. You're, you're on the ground.

00:54:44.120 Oh God, no.

00:54:44.720 Yeah, no, no. I mean, that thing is, I guess with the, yeah, I guess cause they're shooting

00:54:48.920 him. I mean, the overpressure shatters, shatters the window shill. We had to put mats up there.

00:54:54.160 So really?

00:54:54.600 Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. I think it's crazy.

00:54:57.880 That's rad. So like these ideas, most people I think would look at that and think, I don't,

00:55:03.660 I don't think we're at a shortage of ideas. I just think we're at a shortage of people

00:55:07.160 implementing those ideas. Like what's the difference between having the balls to do it?

00:55:12.460 That's what I'm saying. Cause most guys like who hasn't thought about having something

00:55:16.060 cool like that on their vehicle, but then who, who, who actually does it?

00:55:19.780 Yeah. Fortunately we were partnered and we have friends that have all the licensing and all the

00:55:23.720 things to make it actually actionable. Yeah. Um, so when we could ideate and come up with crazy

00:55:28.240 terms, we're like, do we should put a Prius on a fricking or a minigun on a Prius? Wait a second.

00:55:33.620 We could buy a budget Prius. We could fab shop and build a roll cage that would support. And then

00:55:38.140 you start going through that whole process, the developmental process and you go, we can actually do this.

00:55:43.520 It's going to require a lot of work and effort, but it's attainable. It's not, it's not, you know,

00:55:48.620 trying to skyrocket into space. Like we can't do that. So how did you, let's just take that example.

00:55:53.700 And there's an infinite number of other examples and, and justify the costs. Like, like what was

00:56:00.800 the thought process behind that? Well, you can ask that to the couple people that built it. They're

00:56:03.960 like, you guys wanted to build this for pennies. Yeah. Right. You know, I, it's something that we do,

00:56:09.760 I think well, as far as marketing, where we bring partners in who are willing to either

00:56:13.360 cover costs or operational logistics to support the, the event and or project. Right. And we all

00:56:20.260 kind of, uh, at the end of the day, benefit from it. Partnerships, sponsorships, things like that.

00:56:24.640 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then like letting other people use the minigun and Prius and then having

00:56:28.600 them a part of it. So it honestly wasn't that expensive. People thought it was crazy. It wasn't.

00:56:33.800 Interesting. Yeah. How do you know if you want to follow through on one of these crazy ideas?

00:56:39.320 And then what, what would, what would nix it? Like where in the process and what would, would just

00:56:45.680 put a kibosh in the entire thing? What's funny, we built this model where it says, um, variability,

00:56:51.420 as far as what is the amount of like CP, like how many impressions and or conversions based off of

00:56:56.200 this video do we project? Is that like going to do really well for us? And then what's the cost?

00:57:00.400 And so those two kind of things correlate with each other and then can we do it? And so more

00:57:06.780 than not, you have an understanding of what will do decent and you just, you go for it. I mean,

00:57:12.740 we, we do a lot of stuff in house, which is crazy. I mean, most, all the guys, about six of us that

00:57:16.500 are all shooter editors, script to screen guys. I mean, I still edit my videos. Um, do you really?

00:57:21.120 Yeah. I'm a videographer as well. And an editor and, um, producer and all that. And I'm not saying

00:57:26.940 I'm awesome. I've guys are way better than me at the company. So when we put a project together,

00:57:31.000 you'll think, you know, they're shit. That'd be the biggest budget ever for that thing. There's

00:57:34.920 three dudes that just shot it on the weekend, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So is that what you enjoy

00:57:39.700 the most? Like the creative process of it all? Is that okay? Yeah. Cause you could delegate all

00:57:44.640 that out at this point you could. Yeah. But it's just my bread and butter and what I love. I love,

00:57:49.020 I love having an idea or all of us having an idea, then seeing it come to fruition down the road and

00:57:54.440 knowing that you put all that in there and then seeing that payoff of people going, man,

00:57:58.700 I enjoyed this and sharing with their friends and, you know, rekindling relationships based off of

00:58:02.940 some stupid, you know, video that we did. Yeah. That is what's cool. Just about social

00:58:07.200 media in general is how connected everybody is. And I say this every time, like when I have a guest

00:58:11.140 on the podcast, I'm like, man, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't for social

00:58:15.000 media, if it wasn't for Instagram and YouTube and all these things that people I think beat up quite a

00:58:20.040 bit. And there's a reason to do that, but it's also extremely, extremely valuable if you use it

00:58:24.280 correctly. Oh, 100%. It's, it's crazy. Yeah. It's insane what it's opened up. Yeah. I mean,

00:58:30.360 you saw the opportunity for all your friends in high school to judge you and hate you what you're

00:58:33.540 doing now or love you for doing it. Yeah. When did that ever happen? Yeah. How do you deal with,

00:58:38.440 and I'm sure this is maybe not even really much of an afterthought even anymore is with people who

00:58:43.980 criticize and put you down and don't like what you're doing, et cetera, et cetera.

00:58:50.160 I have a severe case of not giving the fuck about that kind of stuff.

00:58:53.060 But have you always though? Uh, or is that something you had to develop?

00:58:56.440 It's impossible for some things not to get you. I have a couple of points that really frustrate

00:59:01.240 me when people say it, but at the end of the day, when someone's like, this guy's a douchebag,

00:59:05.360 I hope his business fails. Like, what are you going to do? That's fine. It's their opinion. It's,

00:59:09.400 you know, that's that they can, they can say that I don't care. Right. I'm doing me. And moreover than

00:59:13.340 not, they're the ones that are sitting, watching my video, criticizing me, not being successful and not

00:59:18.320 going, trying the ideas that they have and doing what they love where, and I tell that to a lot

00:59:23.140 of people who focus on the negative and it's so bizarre. And I've done it before. You scroll

00:59:27.640 through a hundred comments that are all positive. You find that one negative comment, you click on

00:59:34.160 the profile, you're judging how the dudes dress and you're going through this whole negative

00:59:38.920 fricking tangent rather than just going, Hey man, one out of a hundred, that's a pretty high success

00:59:44.080 rate. Now, if it's like 99% negative, you're probably doing something wrong. Something's

00:59:47.700 off, but I don't care at all. I think that's, um, I think it's a evolutionary defense mechanism,

00:59:56.040 right? Like we're always, we're constantly looking for threats and, and we don't want to be ostracized

01:00:01.580 from the group. That's interesting. Okay. Because thousands of years ago, what happens if you're

01:00:05.140 ostracized from the group? Right. You die. Right. You're, you're literally dead. But that's a good

01:00:09.720 thing. Like, you know, cause I've had, you know, I've done gun owner versus liberal rap battle and

01:00:15.080 you know, as long as your tribe is into it, right. That's awesome. You know, of course, you know,

01:00:20.360 the 18 year old female vegan in California is going to hate that video and talk all the crap about me.

01:00:27.120 But do I really care what she has to say about me? You're not even talking to her. It doesn't

01:00:31.480 matter. Don't even care. Right. Just, just severely don't care. I get that a lot with, with the extreme

01:00:37.520 feminists. Like, well, it's like, look, I can appreciate your thoughts and appreciate that

01:00:43.420 you'd like me to include you in this process or whatever. Um, but go start order of women or

01:00:49.720 yeah, do your own, do what you're passionate about. And more than not, if they actually came

01:00:53.500 to the table with a rational conversation, you'd be willing to discuss counterpoints and

01:00:57.860 work through them. Right. But the problem is people just throw slander and you're, you're

01:01:03.480 stupid. You're this. And the second you put them in the corner, they're like a cat in a

01:01:07.080 bathtub and all they do is throw insults at you. And I tell that to everybody. I'm like,

01:01:10.040 I'm always open to have a conversation with you because I'm not always right. And I'm

01:01:13.380 not the smartest guy, but let's, let's talk through it. Yeah. Super easy. I mean, I have

01:01:16.940 people calling me before that I'm a misogynist because there's chicks in bikinis in some of

01:01:20.040 my videos. Yeah. I'm like, go have a conversation with my wife and ask her how I treat her.

01:01:23.940 Right. It's a different conversation. Right. And, and it's funny because you have these

01:01:27.180 guys that will say things like that. It's like, do you not appreciate attractive women or

01:01:32.220 like, I don't know. Well, at the end of the day, the girls showed up because they wanted

01:01:36.500 to and or for employment and for just being there because they enjoyed it. They enjoyed

01:01:40.380 the piece of content. They know what it is. They look great. They work out. And so they

01:01:44.260 want to show off being young in a bikini and be fun and a little set. Like that's awesome.

01:01:48.060 Own it, man. Yeah. Then I'm going to go over and, you know, talk crap on Justin Bieber

01:01:52.960 because he's in, you know, what boxer briefs and he's objectifying men. Like, come on,

01:01:56.680 like you can go both ways with that conversation. It's just a waste. Shut up. It's just a waste

01:02:00.040 of time. Waste of energy. It's all it is. But I think people just, like I said, they just,

01:02:04.580 they just, well, they feel kind of included or something in the process. But then there's also

01:02:08.280 these people who like are professionally, they just wander around and they're just,

01:02:12.740 there's troll people for the sake of doing it. I don't, I don't understand why you do that.

01:02:16.440 Yeah. Like the white knight syndrome. And then you have professional trolls. People love getting

01:02:20.240 an emotional response. And they'll, and I mean, I've got a lot of those where they've said some

01:02:24.180 very violent, hateful things and I've called people out. I'm like, all right, come, come see me,

01:02:28.240 bro. Yeah. Come see me. And they're like, dude, it's a joke. You make jokes. I'm like,

01:02:31.760 you saying that you're going to like rape my wife isn't a joke. That's, that's when

01:02:35.780 end of the road, you can come see me and we'll see how this ends. Right. You know? Um, yeah,

01:02:41.300 I don't play that crap. Like it's one thing to call a douche bag or make fun of someone. I do that

01:02:45.620 all the time. It's just, it's fun. It's comedy, but for that violent speech, different line, bro.

01:02:51.240 Right. There's a lot about that for sure. You're going to learn what a fricking elbow,

01:02:54.040 your orbital bone feels like. So tell me about, I mean, obviously you've got your book and we didn't

01:02:59.440 talk a whole lot about that. Cause I know it's your story, but, but tell me about the title.

01:03:03.700 Like what was the influence for the title? Thank you for my service. Yes. Um, you know,

01:03:08.400 I had a title previously that was different and it had a curse word in it. And then as I got it

01:03:13.240 approved through the DOD, I was like, man, I don't want a cuss word in the book. And a lot of people

01:03:16.360 have overplayed that and really came down to, I think a lot of people always ask least civilians,

01:03:22.360 have you got this? Should I thank a veteran for their service? For sure. Because it comes from an

01:03:27.120 empathetic position, but they don't know if it, if they should, right. They feel awkward a little

01:03:31.480 bit about it individually. I'm not, I doesn't do anything for me. No, thank you. I'm sure some

01:03:36.160 people really support it and it's a very kind gesture. Um, but my book title, thank you for my

01:03:41.040 service was really me just going, this is funny because I enjoyed my service. Right. Right. I thought

01:03:46.420 the title was funny and thank you taxpayers for letting me fly around in little birds and carry

01:03:51.500 night vision and shoot, you know, America's worst enemies in the face. It was super rad. Thank you.

01:03:56.240 Not to mention giving me the MGI bill where, where I got my college degree with. So like,

01:04:01.520 dude, thank you. I got paid to do the greatest job of all time. That's awesome. And I kind of

01:04:05.680 want to like be counterculture in that, you know? Well, I like it too, because there is an element

01:04:10.000 of, of, I don't know if you've thought about this or considered this element of humility in that,

01:04:14.940 you know, who you're serving. Yeah. Right. Like we're, we're like as a veteran to serve the citizens

01:04:21.240 of this nation. That's, that's what we're here to do. Not elevate ourselves, but to serve those

01:04:25.060 individuals. And that's what service stands for. You know, I think that's a problem with politics.

01:04:29.180 Politics have not turned, they turn from service into personal progression and you know, service

01:04:34.820 should be that. Like I knew I joined at a time of war for a special operations unit. I knew I was going

01:04:39.420 to war. I enjoyed it. That was my decision. Yeah. You know, it was my decision. So like, thank you for

01:04:44.240 providing that opportunity for me to feel empowered and serve my country. And I think it's great. And I

01:04:49.660 kind of want to diffuse a lot of the stereotypes of veterans that it's this victim mentality and that we're all

01:04:54.440 broken after war. Yes. We got to sort a couple of things in the community. Yes. We need to look

01:04:58.580 out for our own. And it's why I work with a multitude of, uh, you know, organizations that

01:05:03.200 support people, um, with, with issues and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, like a lot of us

01:05:08.360 are just normal dudes, man. Like, yeah, I'm just like a washed up dude that, you know, sells coffee and

01:05:13.100 has fun and works with epic people, man. Like I, you know, I don't, that's it, man. We're just dudes.

01:05:18.460 Like it's just, that's our past, man. It is funny because there's, especially on social media,

01:05:22.640 when you get people who, I mean, you've had success on social media is that I think there's

01:05:26.620 this thing where people begin to believe that they sit on pedestals. It's like, they're just

01:05:30.520 normal. They, they hang out, they have fun, they mess up. Like everything's normal. We're all the

01:05:36.780 same. Yeah. We're just a bunch of people living this crazy thing called life. That's it. That's it.

01:05:42.800 Well, Hey, we're, I think we went past the whatever, 57 minutes that you said we had or whatever it

01:05:46.960 was. I was totally kidding. Um, I do want to ask you a question I didn't prep before. Sure. So I'm

01:05:52.200 going to put you on the spot a little bit here. I love it, but I've asked all my guests this and

01:05:54.800 I want to ask you, what does it mean to be a man? What does it be? Uh, what does it mean to

01:05:59.940 be a man? I would say being a man is having a sense of responsibility, ownership, and it's my

01:06:09.800 version of being a man, but, uh, being a leader, I truly believe that whether that's a leader in

01:06:14.120 your, in your family, your community, but taking charge and being the guy that, that does the hard

01:06:21.160 work. That's what I believe a man is. And that doesn't have to mean solely reliant on having

01:06:24.880 tattoos and muscles. Like that's like being the best doctor in the ER that takes charge and goes,

01:06:30.260 you know what? It's on me. Let's save this kid's life. I think that's what being a man is just

01:06:34.720 taking responsibility of the situation, owning it and trying to find the best outcome.

01:06:39.140 I love it, man. It's powerful. Sweet. All right, brother. How do we connect with you?

01:06:43.040 Obviously you can pick up a copy of the book. Yeah. Uh, thank you for my service in my book,

01:06:46.740 man. Appreciate it. And then Matt Best, you can Instagram it, Twitter it, whatever the YouTubers

01:06:51.160 it, whatever. And I'm, I'm around. We'll sync it all up so the guys can find you. No worries,

01:06:55.160 man. I just appreciate you having me on. This is super fun. It's been awesome. I know you've

01:06:57.960 got some other smaller shows like Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro lined up. So we'll see, we'll see

01:07:02.060 whatever happens with the book tour. Who knows? No, I'm stoked. I'm, I'm excited for you. I'm excited

01:07:06.340 for what you've got going on. Um, and I'm, I'm honored to be able to have you on the show. I've been

01:07:09.940 following you for a long time to finally be able to connect up here has been cool. And let's, let's run it back

01:07:13.460 sometime. Let's do it. Awesome, man. Let's do it. All right, brother. Thanks. Thanks gentlemen. There

01:07:18.800 you go. My conversation with the one and only Matt Best. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. I know

01:07:23.980 it was a, uh, it was an honor and a privilege to be able to sit down with him and have the type of

01:07:27.680 conversation that we did. Uh, if you are interested, whether or not you're interested, just go do it.

01:07:33.620 Pick up a copy of his book. Thank you for my service. I think you're going to enjoy. Uh, it's humorous.

01:07:39.600 It's funny, but it's also got some serious undertones, of course, uh, sharing his stories

01:07:44.700 of being in the military and a veteran and everything that he's gone through as well.

01:07:49.140 So connect with Matt, if you haven't already, uh, connect with me. I'm very, very active on

01:07:53.640 Instagram as is Matt. I believe that's where he's most active. Uh, and let us know what you

01:07:58.620 thought about the show. Let us know what you took away. Let us know what you enjoyed. Please share it

01:08:02.300 too. I see a lot of you guys sharing on Instagram and Instagram stories. I really, really appreciate

01:08:06.140 that by you sharing. This is how we're going to get the word out.

01:08:09.600 This is how we're going to spread the message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. And I know,

01:08:15.040 I know for a fact that 99.9% of you listening think a lot like me when it comes to what we see

01:08:22.840 in the world and the lack of genuine masculinity in society. Again, we're drifting away from what it

01:08:30.880 means to be a man. And my goal and my objective with your help is to get us back on path. And the

01:08:36.840 only way that we're going to do that is by you sharing and making this available and letting

01:08:41.840 other men in your life know what this movement is all about being part of this movement and then

01:08:46.640 inviting other men to do the same. So I want to thank you for doing that in the past. I want to

01:08:51.740 thank you for being in the battle with me and it is a battle and we're going to continue to battle

01:08:55.160 as this might even continue to get worse before it gets better. Anyways, guys, stay tuned, subscribe to

01:09:00.640 the show. If you haven't already, I'll be back tomorrow for my ask me anything with the one and

01:09:04.680 only my cohost Kip Sorensen. And then also for our Friday field notes on Friday. All right, guys,

01:09:12.240 get out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:09:16.860 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:09:21.900 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - July 30, 2019

Service Above Self ｜ MAT BEST

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript