STEVE CHOU ｜ How to Lead Your Business and Your Family
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
196.88022
Summary
Steve Chu is the author of The Family First Entrepreneur and founder of The Handkerchief company, which sells handkerchiefs online. In this episode, Steve and I talk about not being a stranger to your kids, practical strategies for avoiding burnout and unnecessary stress, whether you should stay at your current job or start a side business, and how side hustles boost confidence.
Transcript
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Running a business and leading a family can be such a challenging aspect of life.
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Both require so much time and attention, and although similar in a lot of ways, the way
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you lead professionally is not always translatable to leading personally.
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My guest today is Steve Chu, the author of The Family First Entrepreneur.
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Today, Steve and I talk about not being a stranger to your kids, practical strategies for avoiding
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burnout and unnecessary stress, whether you should stay at your current employment or
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quote-unquote burn the boats, so to speak, when starting a side business, and how side
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Guys, a lot of these things I wish I would have learned a whole lot sooner.
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Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is who you will become at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you
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I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.
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If you're brand new to what we're doing here, this is a mission to help you as a man.
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We want to give you tools, resources, conversations, products, information, events, whatever you need to improve your life as a husband, a father, a business owner, a community leader, just a man in general who might have a desire to grow and build and develop, but not quite have all the tools at his disposal.
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It's my job to give those tools to you, and we do that through this podcast.
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We've got other incredible men like Jocko Willink and Tim Kennedy and Tim Tebow and Ben Shapiro and Matthew McConaughey and Grant Cardone and Andy Frisilla and David Goggins.
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You can go back and you can check out the archives and see who we've had on and pick out a few of your favorite episodes if you haven't listened for any amount of time.
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It goes a long way to promote what we're doing here.
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If you want to join our programs and courses, sure, we have those available.
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But if you're tuning in and you're listening, this is something that we provide as a free resource to you.
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It means a lot if you would, as Andy Frisilla would say, pay the fee and just leave a rating and review.
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He's an extremely, extremely successful entrepreneur, making his way into the world of entrepreneurship by selling handkerchiefs, of all things, online with his wife.
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And what started as a way to make a few additional dollars ended up becoming an extremely lucrative business and springboarded Steve and his wife into serial entrepreneurship.
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He's introduced thousands of people, including myself.
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Not introduced, but helped me in this world of e-commerce and has been featured in Forbes, the New York Times, Entrepreneur, MSNBC, and his podcast, My Wife Quit Her Job, which is a great name, by the way, because isn't that what a lot of guys want?
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Anyways, his podcast is consistently ranked in the top 25 marketing podcasts in the world.
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I was checking the last email correspondence, and I think it was over a decade ago.
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I think we recorded in 2016, if I remember correctly, because I started in 2015, so eight years ago certainly would have been possible, but I think it's six, seven years ago.
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It's pretty cool to see guys that I talked with in the early stages of this movement to see what they've developed and built and to see what we've built, and it's really cool to connect with people again.
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I mean, I just love people that follow through, and clearly, I mean, your business has lasted the test of time.
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I feel the same way about what you're doing, but I think it is a rarity, and it's interesting as we talk with men.
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And one of the things that I feel like we can do as men to set ourselves apart, whether it's in the business market or the dating market, is just to say what you mean, mean what you say, follow through on your commitments, stay consistent.
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When you mess up, and we all do, fix it, correct it, keep going, don't deviate.
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It's not a complex process, but man, look, I struggle too.
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I mean, this is why I like your pod too, because I feel like this generation just kind of gives up too easily, and that's just something that I've been instilling my kids.
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Just follow through, suck it up, and just get through it.
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I mean, in a lot of ways, I think about the generations that are coming up.
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They have huge advantages that we didn't have, right?
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Like I think about my oldest son and his desire to start his own podcast and do things similar to what I was doing.
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And I had a friend who was talking with him and said, I hope you understand the lessons and the coaching and the mentoring that you're receiving.
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This would be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars, to go out and get this on your own, because you and I have created it.
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But I'm wondering what you think about it, especially as it relates to family, because I know, obviously, family is crucial to you.
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Like, where's the line of presenting our children with opportunities that maybe we didn't have, but then on the other side of it, giving them too much so that they don't go through the trial and error that we went through to help us be successful?
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So my kids were actually interested in starting their own e-commerce store.
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And they started it when they were 9, 11 years old.
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You know, we helped them with a couple of things.
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But essentially, they made $1,000 in their first month.
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And, you know, I documented this entire process.
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So they started a t-shirt business selling entrepreneurship t-shirts for kids.
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And the way we marketed it together was we created these videos on YouTube that we posted on Facebook and social.
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And people just loved their cute videos and they wanted to support them.
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But I remember, you know, during the filming of those videos, like if you're not used to doing video, you struggle as soon as that camera starts recording.
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And every time we filmed a video for like, I would say, the first three videos, they would cry for like 10, 15 minutes.
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I said, hey, we're not stopping until we get this done.
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And just over a period of, I would say, several weeks, they kind of got used to it.
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So when you say they cried, I also think there's a line between, look, I don't know where it is.
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Where we're being motivational and inspirational and giving them a little bit of positive encouragement, maybe pushing them past their comfort zone and then taking it too far.
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You know, when you say they cried for 15 minutes, it's like, well, do you keep going in that instance?
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But sometimes if you just take a break, 10, 15 minute break for them to calm down, then you try again, then you try again.
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I was actually brought up in a pretty strict household, just like a traditional Chinese household where, I mean, I was studying the SATs when I was in fourth grade because I needed to take it in order to qualify for this nerd camp.
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So I went through stuff that's like much worse than like I put my kids through.
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And looking back now on that, I just thank my parents for putting me through that because now I feel like it just came out that much stronger.
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Like I can take a lot of crap and still get through stuff and have a really good attention span and I follow through on everything that I do.
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And that's basically what I was trying to do with my kids with this video because they weren't really giving me any good excuses why they couldn't do it.
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They were just frustrated, you know, and it's understandable.
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When you do something new, you get frustrated, but just, you know, take 15 minutes, calm down.
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That's interesting with your family and cultural upbringing.
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Like if I were to think that, you know, we think of, you're Chinese, is that right?
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So generally look, and maybe I'm not saying this correctly, but like we generally think of Asian communities or Asian culture being very challenging,
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focused heavily on education, focused heavily on success and results.
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We see that play out within your community, I imagine, as well.
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On the flip side, I do see values in not pushing them also and just letting them explore.
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Um, my, my sister-in-law, uh, married a non-Asian husband and they have different parenting styles.
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And what I found is just letting them explore actually, at least with my nephews, it causes them to be a little bit more bold, so to speak, try new things.
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Whereas if you're just too strict, sometimes they tend to just follow the rules, right?
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I guess I hadn't considered that, but yeah, it's, it's trying to toe the line and extract from your upbringing what you thought was valuable and then interjecting new thoughts, new beliefs, new ideas, new experiences so that you can maybe give them opportunities that they didn't have before or you personally weren't exposed to.
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I was actually brought up in a household where I was taught that if you just work hard with your head down, people will notice and they will just notice and give you awards and gratitude for what you do.
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And it wasn't until I started my businesses did I realize that that was completely false, at least in the US, right?
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You need to ask for what you want in order to receive and you need to be a little bit more, I don't know what the right word is, but you need to be a little more bragging about yourself in order to get ahead.
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But yeah, you do need to, you need, well, nobody else is going to do it for you.
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That's part of the reason we've had so much success.
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I know plenty of hard workers that couldn't run, rub two nickels together, you know?
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And it's like, okay, so is working hard the formula?
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Well, I would say it's part of it, but too many people believe that if I just work harder, I'm going to have success.
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No, you could work harder doing the wrong things and not have success.
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We need to figure out the right things to be doing.
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Oftentimes too, people will say, oh, my, you know, my, my channel's not taking off or my social media, people aren't interested.
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What they care about is your message, the way you can serve them, the way you can help them, the way you can benefit their lives.
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And once you wrap your head around that, a lot more success in that for sure.
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Yeah, there's definitely a distinction between working hard and working smart.
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I think most entrepreneurs, when they first start out, they work hard.
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And then once they, once things maybe get out of hand, you kind of learn to work smarter so that you can actually free up some time to spend with the people that you love and that sort of thing.
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That's the, that's been the biggest struggle for me is, is I'm naturally drawn to business.
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It's, it's, I won't say it's easy, but it comes naturally for me is what I would say.
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And what ends up happening, because I am so focused on it and I've equated it with the idea of providing for the people I care about.
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Is that sometimes those people I care about get left in the dust.
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And that's a lot of the work that you do is how do you grow businesses?
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How do you create success in your life at, but not at the expense of your family and your loved ones?
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So what's funny is I did fall into that trap and we started our business originally so that my wife could stay at home with the kids.
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That's why my blog is called my wife quit her job.
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We, we replaced her salary within a year and that was the goal for our business.
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But once things started taking off and I don't know if this happened to you, Ryan, but I kind of got carried away.
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I was in these mastermind groups with people who are really successful and I wanted to be like them.
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And so every year we would set these ridiculous goals and then we would hit them, maybe celebrate for a day and then set higher goals the next year.
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And it got to the point where my wife came up to me and she said in frustration, Hey, I don't want to do this anymore.
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And it was at that point that I realized that it was my ego that was just kind of driving all these businesses to grow, grow, grow.
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And we didn't really need, it wasn't really adding much marginal benefit to our lifestyle at all.
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But how do you know if it's ego or if you do it for the intrinsic benefit of it or because you're serving people?
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So on the outside looking in, I can't say that that's drastically going to improve somebody's life.
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But your work now or my work, I would say it can drastically improve the quality of people's lives.
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And so how do you know if the work that you're doing is egocentric and ego driven or you genuinely want to grow the movement, to grow the business, to grow your reach because you really care about serving those people in a powerful way?
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Yeah, I think it just depends on the type of person you are.
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And I've helped tons of people start their own businesses so they could improve their lifestyle.
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My purpose for my businesses has always been to spend more time with family.
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And this kind of just extends from my childhood.
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And they basically worked their butts off so that they could provide for the kids.
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But they worked so hard, long hours, that I didn't really see them that often.
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And I would look over at the sidelines when I was playing really well.
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And my friend's parents were there, but mine weren't often.
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I mean, they tried to make as many games as they could.
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But they couldn't just pick up and travel because they had work.
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And so today, that's the purpose of my business is I coach their teams.
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And I would say the helping others is certainly up there in terms of priority.
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So were you born in China or were you born in the US?
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My dad passed away, but my mom is actually still working.
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There's a good story behind why she's still working though.
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And right now that cure is undergoing clinical trials.
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And so she's working just to see that trial through.
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So this was just recently then she discovered this cure?
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Recently within like the last five to 10 years.
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So my mom came on a research scholarship in molecular biology.
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He stowed away on a ship to flee China to Taiwan.
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What's your mom's take on what's going on currently with China and Taiwan?
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Because your dad has a connection clearly to Taiwan.
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I think that she's just a little worried about the tensions.
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We don't actually talk about this subject too much.
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And you're talking about Taiwan in particular, right?
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Especially with the tensions we see ramping up between Taiwan and China.
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I think my mom is a little bit more insulated from all that stuff too.
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Because she just kind of heads down, does her work.
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I know for myself, I've been experiencing a lot more Asian hate as of late.
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Because, you know, I mean, I don't want to speak for everyone.
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But whenever I talk about sourcing from China, which is something that we do for e-commerce,
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like a lot of our products are sourced from China, I get a lot of flack for it.
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Or would you say that's just patriotism or something else?
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And I think it just happened because of our last president, you know, with the tariffs.
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And, you know, we're kind of locked into this battle right now, I feel.
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Like, I feel like China is our biggest adversary right now to the U.S.
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And so, it just naturally gets reflected in the comments I get.
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I don't, I don't, I mean, obviously, this is not the direction I thought we would go.
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Well, I'm just curious because these cultural, these cultural events are, they're important
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I'm, I'm, I'm obviously vested in them and, and, and I care about what's going on here.
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And yeah, I'm, but I'm always, I'm always, I wouldn't say skeptical, just question the
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You know, like we'll hear a lot of times the phrase transphobic.
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That means you're afraid of, of those who, who claim to be trans.
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Is it, is that you're, that you're afraid or that you hate that?
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No, it, it may mean something completely different.
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So I'm, I'm curious about your experience with, with hate versus a dislike or, or it may
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Ryan, yeah, you know, I, I've just learned not to respond.
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So I don't actually get into the discussion with any of these people, obviously, unless
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The fact that I'm getting these hate comments means that I'm probably doing something right.
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I mean, we get our fair share of criticism too.
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And it's like, you know, and a lot of times it's from faceless, nameless Facebook and Instagram
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It's like you, whoever this is really took the time out of their day to go create an
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It's the fact that immigrants are taking away U S jobs and the fact that we're getting
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Everyone's always like, Hey, I want made in the USA.
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But when you realize that, uh, I'll give you an example, like a handkerchief that I buy
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If I were to buy that same handkerchief in the United States, it'd be $4, right?
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So if you want made in the USA, are you willing to pay eight X the amount for that item?
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So they say they want to support made in the USA, but they aren't willing to pay the
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They, people always ask, they go, Hey, was this made in China or was this made in the
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U S and I tell them, Hey, we, we do have made in the U S options if you want.
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And we steer them over to the made in the U S options.
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But when we tell them the prices, they end up buying the Chinese product anyway.
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Number one, you're not, you're not an immigrant.
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And even if you were, it would, that wouldn't matter either.
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I mean, isn't that the great American dream that we can have this place for people to pursue
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The other side of it with regards to made in China versus made in the U S look, I understand
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I would love, I would love more people to buy from, from those, those companies and organizations
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So I think you either do it and pay more, like you're saying, or create the framework,
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create the structure, create the manufacturing, create the system and start building things
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Like, don't just say you want to do something or something else to be done.
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And that is the great American dream in my mind.
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And this is actually why we do all the custom embroidery in the U S I mean, technically we
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can call ourselves made in the U S, but we, you know, we, we don't say that our items are
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All of our personalization is done in-house in our warehouse.
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So with, with regards to the business, so you, you have the handkerchief business that
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We actually just bought our own warehouse recently.
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The rents were getting out of control here in Northern California.
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So they were jacking us for 30% increase in rent every single year.
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So we decided to just buy a place and it's, it's been a great decision so far.
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So obviously you have this business where you're teaching entrepreneurs, how to create
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revenue that would replace their nine to five and create these side hustles that become
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So we started Bumblebee Linens, which is the handkerchief store.
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We ended up making six figures in profit in our first year.
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And then I decided to document our journey mainly because our friends were asking questions.
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And so that's why my wife could her job.com was born.
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It was kind of like a personal journal for my e-commerce store.
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But what ended up happening is none of my friends read it.
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I attracted a bunch of random strangers that were reading about it and they wanted to learn
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I started a course in 2011 over at profitableonlinestore.com.
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That led to a podcast, led to a YouTube channel, and that led to an annual e-commerce event that
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I've been running for the past seven years called the Seller Summit.
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Um, I know there's a lot of guys that are dissatisfied in their work and I'm sure you've
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You know, people are maybe even doing fairly well financially.
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Maybe they're waiting for their retirement to kick in.
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The more guys I talk with lately, I don't feel old, but I talk with friends who are like,
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Somebody I talked with yesterday and the police, he's like, I'm two years away from retirement.
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Like, are we getting old or how are you two years away from retirement?
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But these are individuals who, for one reason or the other, are dissatisfied in their work.
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How would you suggest to somebody that they either get started with something?
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Whether they're looking at retirement or whether they want to step away from their corporate
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job, what are some of the recommendations you give to people?
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And I actually recommend that you stay at work as you're doing this.
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Now, I think I've been teaching this class for a long time and you don't have to sell
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physical products, but what you want to do is you want to just kind of think about everyday
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I actually just recorded a podcast episode with my buddy, Nick Loper.
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I think we're mutual friends or you know of Nick, right?
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And what we did is we just brainstormed off the top of our heads, business ideas, and
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There was, I just went to vacation to Japan and I just got back and my plants all died.
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So I was like, Hey, what if there was like a plant hotel where I could drop my plants off?
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You know, and if you just take a moment and look at your life, chances are you got a lot
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of problems and there's a lot of things that you could think of that would make your life
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So I wouldn't need to take it to a, I wouldn't need to take it to a plant hotel, but it's
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You know, the other thing that I like about what you're saying too is contrary to what
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we see a lot is doing a side hustle while you're doing your other work.
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It seems like so many Instagram influencers are like, burn the boats, go all in.
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And they're like, oh, no, no, I didn't do that.
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I had order of man as I was doing my financial planning practice.
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And I didn't sell my practice until I was making decent money over here with order of
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My wife and I, we started our first business when we were both working full time and I
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I was an engineering director working on microprocessors and I stayed at my job until 2016.
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And at the end, when I finally quit, I was running two seven figure businesses, the event,
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You can totally do it if you have the drive to do it.
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And I, I, today I work 20 hours a week to maintain those businesses so that I can spend
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most of my time, especially in the afternoons with my kids.
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I don't know how old your kids are, Ryan, but I'm driving all afternoon these days, all
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So what, what sports do you, do you coach specifically?
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I don't coach anymore because they're good now.
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Like this weekend, we're, we're all going to Reno and it's a three-day tournament.
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They're actually going to miss school for that.
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What they're doing is better than being in a classroom setting for those.
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And hard work and dedication and how to win and how to lose and how to talk to people
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I mean, you can't, you cannot replace what happens on the, on the volleyball court or
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in our case, the baseball diamond or football field.
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But yeah, I, I, uh, I feel it when you say they've outgrown my coaching.
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Like he has far exceeded my ability to coach him, but my seven-year-old.
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In fact, we've got a game tonight, baseball game.
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I was coaching volleyball and basketball and it was a lot of fun.
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They would never follow them, but every now and then once per game, they would follow
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Do you ever feel like this is something that I run across?
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Um, and I've talked with other entrepreneurs who happen to be fathers as well.
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Do you ever feel like you're not being productive when you're with your family?
00:29:28.420
I know that's a horrible thing to say, but if I'm being honest, like there's times where
00:29:33.060
I'm like, I don't want to just sit here and like hang out in the backyard or at the park.
00:29:42.540
So the way I schedule things is I literally work from when I wake up until noon and in
00:29:48.620
the afternoon, I don't do anything except just kind of be around.
00:29:52.620
Like we're not always hanging out with the kids, but I'm around.
00:29:55.820
So my productivity actually wanes in the afternoon anyways.
00:30:05.060
Um, sometimes I feel like if there's a fire that comes up though, in the afternoon, I do
00:30:10.360
get distracted, but what I try not to do is check my phone.
00:30:18.920
I don't know how you do that, but it makes sense.
00:30:22.960
Like if I'm doing something with them, I don't have my phone out obviously.
00:30:26.260
And we just have some policies like no phone at the dinner table and that sort of thing
00:30:34.360
And for me, it's always been about ego because I want to be the best at what I do.
00:30:41.740
And I want to always strive to be just like my peers, my masterminds and that sort of thing.
00:30:48.420
The way I've just overcome that is what I do now is every single year I focus on one thing
00:30:58.120
So for example, this year, it's all about the book.
00:31:01.140
Last year, it was all about the YouTube channel and I grew it to 200 K subs.
00:31:06.900
So every year I just pick one thing and I do it well and I don't stress out about it.
00:31:12.740
And as long as I'm learning something that has managed to satisfy my ego now for the last
00:31:21.940
Hey man, let me step away from the conversation with Steve very briefly.
00:31:26.620
Now you've all heard the phrase, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
00:31:30.720
I think it was Mike Tyson, maybe who was credited with that, but I agree.
00:31:35.840
But what about those who don't have a plan at all?
00:31:45.920
So if you're tired of getting punched in the face every single year, or if you're tired
00:31:51.020
of running on the proverbial treadmill, let me help you make a plan.
00:31:56.740
And it's a tool that we've designed over eight years of trial and error and testing
00:32:01.020
and tweaking and adjusting and evolving to help you produce maximum results in your life
00:32:06.160
and to deflect and slip and counter the punches of life that come your way.
00:32:12.080
If you're interested in learning more, head to order a man.com slash TWBP as in 12 week
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battle planner, TWBP to pick up that battle planner.
00:32:21.340
And then also a supplement to that is order a man.com slash battle ready order a man.com
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slash battle ready, because you're going to be able to sign up for a free course on how
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So again, order a man.com slash TWBP and then order a man.com slash battle ready.
00:32:39.480
All right, guys, you can do that right after the conversation for now.
00:32:43.660
It's interesting when you talk about the focusing on the one thing, because as entrepreneurs,
00:32:51.560
And we see different outlets and different avenues.
00:32:57.180
Okay, I'm great on TikTok, but what about Instagram marketing and good on Instagram?
00:33:01.980
And so how do you keep yourself from losing focus on all of the other things that you could
00:33:06.800
focus on and just focus on the one thing you found valuable or that you want to focus
00:33:11.120
Yeah, the way I kind of operate is I don't actually start anything unless I can fill it,
00:33:17.560
unless I have a space for it in my schedule in such a way that I can maintain it forever.
00:33:22.680
So for example, the YouTube channel, I hesitated on starting that channel for the longest time
00:33:28.320
because video is probably one of the hardest things to do, right?
00:33:32.380
You got to get your camera set up, you got to record, you got to get it edited and that
00:33:40.720
I didn't start one until relatively recently, until I had a system for it.
00:33:51.220
And then I found an editor who could replicate what I did.
00:33:54.440
And it was only after I had all those pieces in place, did I actually start a YouTube channel.
00:33:58.980
And today I have all those processes down so that it literally only takes me 20 minutes
00:34:05.540
I throw it overboard to my editor and it pops up on YouTube.
00:34:09.160
And so the channel now just doesn't really take me that much time out of my week.
00:34:22.780
Because you and I at the stage we're at in currently have the luxury of bringing support
00:34:28.160
on to help with editing, to help with uploading.
00:34:31.160
Like I haven't edited my own podcast for seven years, but as people are getting started, you
00:34:40.680
You got to respond to people on social media and emails.
00:34:44.220
When is the right time for people to start outsourcing some of this so that they can
00:34:52.320
So I don't really want to do much more than that.
00:34:55.540
What's funny, Ryan, is I'm actually anti-employee in a way because I used to be a director of
00:35:01.840
engineering and my employees were awesome at that work.
00:35:04.940
But what I found is I was spending a lot of my time dealing with personality issues and
00:35:10.120
And it's just kind of like a different type of work, you know, than doing yourself.
00:35:14.300
So when I outsource, what I first do is I find out if there's a piece of software or
00:35:21.580
So I'm an engineer, so I can code myself, see if I can replace that with a robot.
00:35:25.280
And we're living in a golden age right now with chat GPT and AI where you can literally
00:35:33.020
I didn't have that back then, but that's the first thing that I do.
00:35:36.080
And I've managed to replace a lot of aspects of my business with software and automation.
00:35:41.520
Now, if I can't replace that with a robot or software, then I look at things that I hate
00:35:57.220
I never outsource anything that I do not know how to do myself.
00:36:05.000
And I generally don't choose to outsource until it's become just so painful that I just
00:36:15.920
Again, my philosophy has changed just because I'm in a position where I can afford to outsource.
00:36:24.660
If I was drained by the work, it was crucial that I get rid of that as quickly as possible.
00:36:30.540
That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the entirety, the breadth of what we do.
00:36:42.420
As far as all of the things that are outsourced now, I used to manage myself.
00:36:46.720
And to your point about knowing how to do it, I know how to do it.
00:36:49.980
In fact, I just coached somebody last week with regards to editing a podcast.
00:36:53.880
And I haven't edited a podcast for five to seven years.
00:36:56.300
And I was able to share with them because I cut my teeth doing it.
00:36:59.400
I know how it's done, except for some new technology that's available.
00:37:03.740
But I think you and I are very much in alignment with that is get it outsourced.
00:37:08.600
But I do like the idea of automation, robots, computer technology, AI to take on and do some
00:37:16.540
of the heavy lifting that we don't want to do ourselves.
00:37:18.460
That's a relatively new development, which I'm excited about.
00:37:22.480
Here's the beauty of outsourcing also, is that I mainly use employees or workers in the
00:37:31.840
The culture is such that my one Filipino VA that literally helps me run all of my wife
00:37:37.820
put her job, is the best employee that I've ever had.
00:37:45.020
There's just this cultural difference that I found.
00:37:47.620
I don't know if you have found this too, but between the people that we've hired in the U.S.
00:37:51.160
and people we've hired in the Philippines, the people in the Philippines, and we're generalizing
00:37:56.120
here, but they want to do a really good, they'll go out of their way to do an exceptional
00:38:04.340
I personally haven't had that experience, first, because I haven't outsourced overseas
00:38:15.140
But the people that work with us are tremendous.
00:38:20.420
But I think the reason is, is they aren't random people.
00:38:24.040
These are people that came up through our organizations, through our masterminds, through our coaching,
00:38:29.860
coming to events, and then we got to know and develop relationships with each other.
00:38:34.860
And then I could see, oh, this person's good at this, and this person's good at that.
00:38:37.980
And I can invite them to be part of the organization based on what their strengths were.
00:38:46.240
So it isn't like, hey, I need to pluck out this assistant from wherever and plop them into this culture
00:38:52.280
They're already bought into the culture that we have.
00:39:03.100
What I like about the Philippines is that the cost of living is much lower there.
00:39:09.840
So if you just pay them really well for where they live, which is not a lot of money to you and me,
00:39:16.280
then you end up getting these fantastic people that are loyal.
00:39:26.000
I want to go back to what you were saying with your friend where you were talking about brainstorming
00:39:29.960
and you talked about the plant hotel, for example.
00:39:32.640
How does a person who's brainstorming on what they should be doing first is, is that,
00:39:37.980
do you recommend that or does that just create chasing trends and chasing things that maybe aren't
00:39:45.200
really meaningful and significant and they're just chasing what could make money?
00:39:51.400
And then also, how do you begin to filter out, hey, the plant hotel, good idea.
00:39:57.080
The, you know, the lawn mowing service, bad idea.
00:40:00.520
Like, how do you, how do you filter that out between what you should approach and go for
00:40:08.500
Well, so what I advise most people do is pursue something that they're knowledgeable about.
00:40:20.040
You're basically doing something that you know a lot about.
00:40:22.400
So in the case of plants, that's probably not a good idea.
00:40:28.440
Right now I play ultimate Frisbee once or twice a week.
00:40:33.900
So I know the sport really well and I've, I've been playing it for the last 25 years.
00:40:38.180
Now my hands get cold at night and I'd been looking for a set of gloves to keep my hands
00:40:43.720
warm so they don't go numb, but the gloves that are out there on the market right now
00:40:50.800
They're just a little bit too thick and you lose feel of the disc.
00:40:53.360
So if I were to start another business, I might sell ultimate Frisbee gloves, super thin gloves
00:40:58.640
where you can maintain the feel of the disc and still keep your hands warm.
00:41:01.680
That's an example where I have knowledge of, I know like what someone is looking for in that product.
00:41:07.240
Do you mostly do, I mean, your background is e-commerce and you're talking about it now,
00:41:13.020
Is that mostly what you would focus on versus we're, we're not e-commerce.
00:41:17.820
Of course, I mean, we have some merchandise as an ancillary to what we do, but we're more
00:41:20.900
service and coaching oriented than, than product-based.
00:41:37.140
Before this all started, I was pretty good at Photoshop, right?
00:41:40.800
And so if I'm good at Photoshop, I might think to myself, Hey, can I leverage these skills
00:41:46.360
maybe to teach a class or offer some sort of service with Photoshop?
00:41:50.820
And I know for a fact that in e-commerce, let's say I wasn't doing e-commerce myself,
00:41:55.340
but I know for a fact that people need their images on a white background in order to list
00:42:01.540
So maybe I would just target those Amazon folks, right?
00:42:06.600
Maybe I'd offer a service and just go from there.
00:42:08.900
It doesn't always have to be a physical product.
00:42:10.500
But I would say between what we do, Ryan, like if you, it just kind of depends on what
00:42:17.360
So if you want to make money within a year, I would say selling something, whether it be
00:42:21.820
a service or a product is probably the way to go.
00:42:24.500
If you have a longer horizon, I would say two to three years or longer, then I would say
00:42:29.280
content is probably the best way to go because you don't have to physically deliver something.
00:42:33.620
Like my class makes me a lot of money and I don't have to ship anything.
00:42:46.820
So it really just depends on your timeframe and how soon you need the money and the type
00:42:54.740
I remember when I started, I was sitting down with a friend, Ever Gonzalez, and I was talking
00:42:59.120
about this idea and I've had other friends who I've consulted with.
00:43:05.500
And I remember saying to Ever, I'm going to do this for two years before I make the decision
00:43:11.720
as to whether or not I keep going or I stop or I throw in the towel or I pivot or I change.
00:43:21.200
And I think that speaks to what you were saying is that if you're going to do more of a service
00:43:25.460
or content-based product or business, you got to give it some time to develop and mature
00:43:34.060
They're like, oh, well, all you do is a podcast and talk with people on social media.
00:43:37.500
Well, it's a little bit more challenging than that.
00:43:41.460
And people usually don't see it until they get involved themselves.
00:43:44.880
And I just speaking for experience, I didn't make any money with my blog until two years.
00:43:49.820
And it didn't make significant money until three.
00:43:52.980
Likewise with my YouTube channel, it was making barely anything, but now it makes almost 300K,
00:44:01.420
For me, three years just seems to be the sweet spot for content.
00:44:06.800
Well, going back to the concept of your latest book, which is Family First Entrepreneur,
00:44:10.960
I'm really curious about what type of boundaries that you have in place between work and your
00:44:18.780
home life, or is it all integrated and your kids and wife are deeply involved in your business?
00:44:23.620
What are those boundaries and separation look like for you?
00:44:27.820
So my wife is my business partner on the e-commerce store.
00:44:31.020
For the content side, anything related to mywifequitterjob.com is me and only me.
00:44:36.140
So the boundaries with my wife and I are that she's in charge of operations at the e-commerce
00:44:44.640
We made the mistake of overlapping early on and we used to fight all the time.
00:44:48.160
But now that we have separate boundaries, it's been really good.
00:44:51.480
And then you have a business and it's like one other thing.
00:44:55.500
That's why I always advise that people don't work with their spouses actually in a business.
00:45:01.840
We made it work, but it took many years to get to that point.
00:45:07.040
In terms of the kids, I just try to make every single event and we just try to make meals
00:45:15.220
I have an agreement that I made with my wife because I have opportunities to speak at events
00:45:23.800
I don't speak at more than six events every single year.
00:45:26.920
And we have this kind of like this, I don't want to call it a checklist, but it's kind of
00:45:31.280
like this little document where if an opportunity were to arise, we calculate whether that's actually
00:45:41.860
And we figure out what the monetary value of that opportunity would be and then ask ourselves,
00:45:47.840
is that monetary value or whatever worth missing out on these sort of events?
00:45:54.900
There's so much nuance to that because how do you say, oh, this kid's volleyball game
00:46:06.420
So the nuance now is we're in a good place where money doesn't matter as much because we
00:46:16.440
And what we do is we just pay ourselves what we spend every year and everything else that
00:46:21.960
So it would be very hard to entice me with money.
00:46:27.340
What would entice me more is maybe exposure, the ability to reach out to more people, right?
00:46:36.020
And it's really hard to quantify, but I think it's important to just have this talk.
00:46:40.740
A lot of times, what I used to do when we first started out is I just said yes to everything.
00:46:46.520
And then I'd go up to my wife and say, hey, by the way, I'm traveling here and there.
00:46:52.560
Now everything's a discussion and it's worked out well.
00:46:56.080
I mean, with that nuance, it sounds like, because there are, how would we ever address,
00:47:00.580
especially in an hour of conversation, address all the nuance and complexities of having
00:47:05.620
these types of conversations with important people.
00:47:07.680
But I think the point you're making, and this is the value is that you and your wife are
00:47:12.840
intentional about it and you are willing to talk with each other about it and include each
00:47:19.480
other in the thought process and include each other's feelings in it.
00:47:23.560
I imagine as well about, about the opportunity or about the game.
00:47:28.020
And I think the intentionality is what, what matters more than anything else.
00:47:32.700
And one thing that you left out is we'll actually talk to the kids too.
00:47:36.560
I was like, Hey, you know, I go to all your games and how would you feel if I miss this game?
00:47:53.380
Do you think, do you think your kids can give you an honest answer to that though?
00:47:56.980
Cause I question whether or not, because, because from, from where I sit, I imagine,
00:48:03.860
I know it works important, but deep down in their little, their little tiny souls,
00:48:07.880
their, their wish and dad was there at the game and they feel like maybe they weren't
00:48:15.400
I think it just depends on, you know, your relationship with your kids and how old they
00:48:21.040
My kids are teenagers now, so they kind of speak their mind.
00:48:27.660
And then when you do want them to open up, they don't.
00:48:37.880
Uh, so, I mean, again, one of my policies is I try not to miss anything.
00:48:44.540
Uh, sometimes things come up, but I've, I've been pretty good.
00:48:47.380
I would say I make 99% of the things that my kids are involved in.
00:48:52.340
And then are they involved or the kids involved in your day-to-day operations?
00:48:55.840
Uh, do you, do you have things for them to be part of with regards to your organizations
00:49:02.140
Cause you talked about that, but are they involved in what you're doing too?
00:49:05.760
So over the holidays, when the e-commerce business gets busy, they come in and help.
00:49:10.720
Um, my daughter actually is working on, so she has two, two, uh, businesses herself.
00:49:16.080
She has that t-shirt business that we talked about earlier, and she actually started her
00:49:22.540
Um, what she's working on now, actually what both kids are working on right now is a class
00:49:27.360
that's meant for teenagers to start their own businesses.
00:49:31.920
And they're going to tailor it towards print on demand, which is a business that you don't
00:49:40.480
In case anyone listening doesn't know what that is.
00:49:44.680
And then there's a company that takes your design and prints it on t-shirts, mugs, and
00:49:54.860
Cause that's a low capital type business, right?
00:49:56.780
I see a lot of guys that want to start things and it's capital intensive.
00:49:59.720
It's like, man, how are you going to come up with $200,000?
00:50:03.840
Or, you know, what's your payback strategy on that?
00:50:06.200
Or what are you taking away from the, from the family if you do that?
00:50:11.780
I think people sometimes complain about these things that, you know, certainly there's things
00:50:16.420
to complain about, but also tremendous opportunities with regards to AI, like we were talking about
00:50:21.620
earlier, and just using the internet to keep costs low so that we can enter into things
00:50:26.620
that we never would have thought possible 50 years ago.
00:50:30.860
I mean, look, when we grew up, we didn't have, like, I was telling my kids about cassette
00:50:35.720
tapes the other day and like, cause they were complaining, like they were complaining that
00:50:41.940
they couldn't get the song that they wanted to play on Pandora.
00:50:44.880
And that's when I started going off on, you know, tapes and, and I wanted to hear a song
00:50:51.300
So I will say that, that, that is one of, I think the greatest contributors for the decline
00:50:56.540
in, in modern music is when we were kids, we had to listen to the entire tape.
00:51:02.400
It wasn't, I mean, yes, you could fast forward, but it wasn't easy.
00:51:07.880
And now you can just come up with one stupid, catchy song.
00:51:15.520
And everybody can just download that one song for 99 cents.
00:51:20.020
And you don't need to make any other good music.
00:51:23.760
I'm really terrified of AI because I know for a fact that a lot of people are just pumping
00:51:28.660
out chat GPT books on Amazon right now, or blogs or websites.
00:51:35.040
And so it's basically going to be the year of spam this year, I feel.
00:51:39.380
I wonder what the line is there because even as this chat GPT and other programs have come
00:51:44.000
available, I'm like, man, I could just have it.
00:51:46.640
In fact, one of the first things I did, I'm like, let me check this out.
00:51:49.240
I said, write a, a, an article with eight fitness tips for men.
00:51:59.020
Seven years ago, that was an article that I had to write myself and then pitch it to guys
00:52:03.660
like you or other people that would maybe hopefully put it on their, their blog or their channels.
00:52:09.480
And it spit it out in just a matter of seconds.
00:52:19.480
And in fact, there was a post that I published not too long ago that was written maybe 85%
00:52:28.300
And it's now ranking on the front page of Google and generating me traffic.
00:52:32.800
So the question now is, do I need as many writers as I have, or can I just get by with
00:52:43.260
What is the, I mean, obviously we know what the benefit of that is.
00:52:50.500
Obviously you're getting rankings on, on search browsers for that.
00:52:55.500
What do you feel like, where, where is the moral conundrum?
00:52:58.280
Cause it's to, when I hear you say that you're like, I don't know.
00:53:01.260
So what is the downside that you see and what are your concerns there?
00:53:05.780
I would say the downsides are some of these writers I've worked for, worked with for a
00:53:14.820
I just worry about society because I think AI is, is just going to cause a lot of jobs
00:53:22.120
And those people who've had their jobs displaced need a way to make money and adapt.
00:53:28.360
Otherwise you can't have such a huge disparity between people who have money and people who
00:53:39.960
It will definitely put people out of work, but this is an age old story.
00:53:45.260
You know, it's, it's, it, this isn't anything new and the technology's new, but what we're
00:53:50.220
bumping up against where there's new developments in technology and processes and systems and
00:53:55.520
commerce have been putting people out of work for centuries.
00:53:59.120
And we've found a way to adapt and focus on something different than maybe what we used
00:54:10.460
This just feels different to me mainly because this is the first time that I think white collar
00:54:16.900
jobs are going to get displaced like software engineers, uh, writers, lawyers, even some
00:54:26.460
I think it's the first time in history that that's happened.
00:54:33.140
Like find every loophole AI, go out and do your work.
00:54:38.240
Find me every tax code, squeeze this for everything that it's worth.
00:54:48.480
And that's why I'm a little worried, but you know, people will adapt.
00:54:52.660
I think people like you and me will, will adapt to the times.
00:54:56.100
In fact, uh, one thing that I'm kind of working on on the side right now is I have this class
00:55:00.520
with over 450 videos and 150 hours of material.
00:55:04.720
I'm going to transcribe all that, feed it into a bot and create Steve bot.
00:55:09.060
So if any students have any questions, they would just first line of defense is ask the
00:55:16.580
And then if I need to step in, I'll, you know, that'll greatly cut down the support for me.
00:55:25.940
I guess it, to me, as I hear you talk about this and the things that I've thought, I think
00:55:30.040
it just reaffirms your message of creating a side hustle because we need to understand
00:55:37.180
And the minute that your boss or your client can find a more effective, less expensive
00:55:44.860
way of getting your service or product, they're going to take that route.
00:55:50.040
And I don't hold any ill will against somebody for doing it.
00:55:54.040
So creating a side hustle like you're talking about, I think it's more important maybe than
00:56:06.360
At least in my area in Silicon Valley, mass layoffs at all the high tech companies, Google,
00:56:11.620
Facebook, Amazon, a lot of people are out of jobs.
00:56:15.580
And, you know, for them, I had a friend who got laid off and it's terrifying for them because
00:56:21.060
they don't have that thing that they can call their own that just kind of makes money on
00:56:25.040
And a lot of times you can experiment with multiple side hustles, see what works, but I
00:56:30.480
would follow your policy, Ryan, whatever you choose, stick with it for at least two years
00:56:36.740
And who knows, it might turn into something big.
00:56:38.560
I never thought in a million years that selling handkerchiefs would lead to a seven figure
00:56:53.980
He's, he's, uh, on the police force here in town and I talked to him just yesterday.
00:56:59.420
And the reason I called him up is because I, I hunt quite a bit.
00:57:02.260
And so I had to take some skulls to him to get cleaned up and to get, you know, done so
00:57:07.280
I can mount them and they'll look really nice on the wall.
00:57:09.700
And, uh, I went over to his place yesterday, which happens to be in his garage and he's got
00:57:14.680
a hundred different heads and skulls and mounts and horns and antlers that he's working on.
00:57:22.220
And he's the gentleman I was saying that that is a retiring in a couple of years.
00:57:26.220
And he's been doing this for at least five years and to see his business grow.
00:57:31.740
And then he had two guys there working with him.
00:57:35.820
He was in there talking with me and they were out cleaning skulls and doing things.
00:57:47.940
He does meaningful work and he has this side business over here.
00:57:51.600
That business is not going to be replaced by AI anytime soon.
00:57:55.120
Maybe, maybe robots in the future or something, but not, not yet.
00:58:00.420
It's just a great way to inoculate himself against some other economic forces at play.
00:58:10.420
I think the side hustle can also boost your confidence at work.
00:58:13.940
I was still working until 2016 and my businesses were making like 10x what I was making and
00:58:19.680
So I'd go into these meetings where my boss would be presenting.
00:58:23.720
And before I used to just kind of keep quiet in the background, kind of like the way I was
00:58:27.940
But once I didn't care anymore, I just started speaking my mind.
00:58:31.480
I'd say stuff like, Hey, I don't think that's a good idea.
00:58:34.280
And I remember my coworkers were like, Hey, you realize that your boss up there, you know,
00:58:38.800
you shouldn't like say anything bad while he's up there.
00:58:45.280
And what ended up happening was I got promoted.
00:58:47.700
I wasn't getting promoted before that, but all of a sudden I was getting promoted for
00:58:53.100
And it was just something that I learned, like you got to just be yourself and don't
00:58:58.840
be afraid to speak up and good things just always happen was what I learned from that.
00:59:05.200
I think there's some, some energy there too, right?
00:59:07.480
When you've got other revenue sources and, and other income, and like you say, your confidence
00:59:16.800
And then it gives you the power to actually say things, which is the very thing that you
00:59:21.200
should have been doing all along, but you couldn't because you were afraid and there
00:59:27.760
So you can say things and the energy is what's presented and people are attracted to that
00:59:34.620
Another side benefit of having a side hustle, right?
00:59:38.840
Well, Steve, why don't you tell the guys where to connect with you?
00:59:42.400
I know I get messages all the time about guys wanting to start side businesses.
00:59:50.680
I'm like, I don't know, just start, but you're somebody who's spent a lot of time
00:59:55.920
So if guys have ideas about starting side businesses, they're going to get better advice
01:00:00.740
from you than, I don't know, just start, which is what I would give them.
01:00:07.000
I think the best place to start actually is to pre-order the family first entrepreneur,
01:00:11.480
which you can do at the family first entrepreneur.com.
01:00:14.300
And the reason why is because not just because of the book, but because I'm giving away these
01:00:20.000
So you will get a three-day workshop on how to start a print on demand business.
01:00:24.360
You also get a two-day workshop on how to get started with a content business, whether
01:00:31.240
And then I'm doing this six week, what I call a family first challenge, where I will be in
01:00:36.560
there in a Facebook group with you guys live and just kind of help you figure out what
01:00:41.160
you want to start and walk you through the first steps, regardless of what you want to
01:00:46.740
And you get all this stuff just for pre-ordering a $30 book.
01:00:51.580
If you guys are interested in e-commerce, you can catch me over at mywifequitterjob.com.
01:00:55.800
I have a free six-day mini course there as well.
01:00:57.880
And if you guys ever want to hang out in person, you can go to the Seller Summit.
01:01:05.940
If you guys are getting married, I can hook you guys up with some hankies over at bumblebelinens.com.
01:01:15.740
And of course, what you do is inspiring and it's helped motivate me too.
01:01:24.880
The conversation with the one and only Steve Chu.
01:01:31.180
A lot of you guys are in entrepreneurship right now, or you're thinking about getting into
01:01:37.140
And what a great guest to be able to talk about this world and this arena.
01:01:40.540
And the pros and the cons and the benefits and the things that you need to do that maybe
01:01:45.020
Because I know for me, a lot of these things I overlooked.
01:01:48.220
And that's a big part of the problem that I had with my own personal relationship.
01:01:52.900
I don't want you to fall into the same pitfalls and landmines that I've stepped on.
01:01:58.320
So if you would, if you liked this one, if you enjoyed Steve, connect with him on the
01:02:04.380
I think his handle on Instagram or his user ID or whatever you call it is my wife quit
01:02:12.760
And also check out his book, the family first entrepreneur.
01:02:20.060
We, he goes into a lot more depth in that book than we did here.
01:02:23.200
So guys, outside of that, take a screenshot, tag us up, tag Steve, tag me, post on Instagram,
01:02:28.500
post on Facebook, post on Twitter, post on YouTube.
01:02:30.740
I don't know, wherever, wherever you're at post, let people know, leave a rating review,
01:02:35.220
check out the book, check out the battle planner.
01:02:42.040
Until then, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.
01:02:45.820
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
01:02:48.800
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
01:02:52.800
We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.