Structured Time with Men, Hobby vs. Career, and the Ritualization of Manhood ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the importance of having a support network around you when things get tough. We discuss how important it is to have friends and mentors in your life to help you through tough times. We also talk about how to deal with the feelings of isolation and depression that many of us experience when things don't go our way.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you. Back for another Ask Me Anything.
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You look like a completely different person with your face shaved, but here we are nonetheless.
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Yeah, it's funny. I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot I had a scar right there underneath my lip, you know?
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Because it's been covered up for 15 years. Yeah, it's odd.
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Yeah. Yeah, I had a little shaving mishap, a little trimming mishap a couple of weeks ago
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where I thought I had the guard that I usually use on, and I had a shorter one.
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I went, I'm like, oh. And the only thing you can do at that point is just go with the rest of it.
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So, I had this super short and a mustache, but it was fine.
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Fortunately, the mustaches are in style right now, so I didn't look too creepy or pedophilish.
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I feel like we're on a roll, man. The Iron Council preview call that we did last week was super fun, highly impactful.
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Obviously, enrollment into the Iron Council was closed, but do you feel like that's a good resource for us to give out
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as people consider looking into the Iron Council for next quarter?
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The preview call that we did of the Iron Council.
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Yes. Yeah, I think that's a great way for people to check out what it's all about.
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You spoke, Alan, Lex, and Wayne spoke, and it's crazy how fast an hour goes.
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I'm torn between making those a little bit longer so we can get more information in,
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but also I don't want to exhaust people either.
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They have their lives and other things they have going on.
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So, yeah, the preview call is available on YouTube.
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It's also available on our Facebook group as a replay.
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So, yeah, definitely check that out, or you can go to orderman.com slash battle ready
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to see the backbone of our planning tools that we use inside the Iron Council.
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And the battle ready program is a good thing to do.
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Enrollment's closed for this quarter, so you might as well sign up for the battle ready program
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and you can work on your own and then join us, you know, come quarter two.
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So, we're going to fill the questions from the Iron Council.
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To learn more about that, of course, you can go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council.
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Greg Tewui, what are the best ways to combat a man's urge to isolate himself,
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And this resonates with me because I think this is a little bit of my MO, right?
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When things start getting tough, I have a tendency to isolate and double down and,
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I don't know, not involve people in my struggle.
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Yeah, I think that's pretty common for a lot of guys to do.
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And I think part of it is that we believe that it's actually the right thing to do
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I got to focus on this task or this project, or maybe something's going on in my relationship
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and I just have to put all my attention and energy and focus on there.
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And yeah, you can do that, but I don't think you're going to have as much success
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as you would if you bring in outside interests, outside parties who can help you see things
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from a way that you just cannot possibly experience yourself.
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We all look at our circumstances and situations through a very small percentage of what information
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And because we look at it that way, we're missing so much of what could potentially serve
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So I think if we first have the mindset that I alone don't have the entire picture, I have
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one piece of the puzzle and it's the puzzle that I'm looking at it through.
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But Kip, you and other people and advisors and friends and coaches and mentors have the other
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If we understand that first, then we'll be less likely to isolate.
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I would also suggest that you really ought to evaluate now the type of men that you have
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Because if I have a bunch of average underperforming losers in my life, then naturally I'm not
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going to turn to those individuals when I'm struggling.
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But if I have hard chargers, high performers, maximum producers, I'm going to be more likely
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to turn to those people when I'm really struggling with relationships or business or health or
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So evaluate the people that you have in your life.
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And then also, I don't think that you need to burn yourself out either.
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Sometimes we think we need to go all in towards isolation or all in towards surrounding ourselves
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I think there is something to be said for not isolation, but solitude, where you're actually
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And you're using that as a component of your overall strategy, which is ultimately to succeed
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So don't conversely go all in on having friends where you can't even think for yourself any longer.
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But if you can bring these in, in minimum doses, and I would also say, as another tip,
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So for you, Kip, I know how big and important jujitsu is in your life.
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That's a very strategic way for you to be around other men in a certain environment that
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fosters the kind of growth and development that we're talking about.
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But that's not really a negotiable, and it's not really a question anymore as to whether
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So if you don't have any sort of structured, scheduled time with other men, then of course,
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you're less likely to involve other men in your life.
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So that could be, I've seen obviously jujitsu or other extracurricular activities.
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I hear from a lot of guys who are like, yeah, we get together every Saturday morning and
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Scheduled, structured, solely with other men, where you can talk about your issues through,
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through the confines or context of your own value and belief system.
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Things like that are really powerful, but they have to be structured and they have to
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The isolation, when I look back at some of the biggest struggles I have in life, I start
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I start running all the time and I run without music and the value of it, of course, there's
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some physical value, but the biggest value is I'm left with myself and my thoughts as
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And that has always been a huge benefit to me whenever I'm stressed out.
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The other thing is to your example, and it's a little bit of a different example, is I
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had a call on Friday with a coach of mine and mentor of mine.
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And literally the call was pretty much, hey, I need to talk.
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They're all the things that I already know, but for whatever reason, sometimes when I'm
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in the jar, it is really hard to see that label.
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And so I could give, and it almost like, oh man, I give that same advice to someone else.
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But when it comes to me, it's just harder to relate.
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And sometimes maybe you do have the answers, but just the different perspective or relating
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it or a third party saying what you already know somehow connects it in a way that you're
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And sometimes we're in it so deep that we just can't really see the label.
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One of the things that you had said made me think of a virtue that all of us, I think,
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can do a better job incorporating into our lives.
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When you say, hey, I'm really struggling with that thing, that requires a sense of humility.
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And we, as men don't often want to admit that we don't have it figured out.
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So that might block us from reaching out to people or whatever.
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Or it might even block you from going to one of these activities that are structured and
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scheduled that I talked about because you don't want to look foolish or be the new guy.
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That's your ego and your arrogance speaking and know that that's hindering and really getting
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So I'm glad to see Greg back in the Iron Council.
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I mean, clearly with his question that he's asking and the fact that he's back in the
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Iron Council says that he's back on the path and knows that he needs other men in his life
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to be able to help direct and navigate his role and his responsibilities.
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Rob Andrews, how do you balance finding a hobby slash passion and choosing to pursue it
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Well, a career or something along those lines is you're just making money.
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So I know plenty of people who have turned, I did, I turned order of man, which is something
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that was an interest or a little side project of mine into a very lucrative career if we're
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talking about it purely from the business perspective.
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So the distinction between hobby and passion versus career is, are you selling anything and
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Balance finding it versus choosing to pursue a career.
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Look, there's certain things that I do that I don't, I'm not interested in turning into
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a career because sometimes turning a passion or a hobby into a career takes the enthusiasm
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And I wasn't going to use the word fun, but I think that's a good word.
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I was going to use the word creativity because when it's a passion, you can just do it
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There's no, there's no constraint there when it's a passion, but when it's a business and
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somebody says to you, let's say, hypothetically, you're a painter.
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And somebody says, I want you to paint a painting.
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And now all of a sudden you're constrained and then it becomes a little bit more boring
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And I'm not saying that you shouldn't turn your passion into a career, but I think that's
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Is this going to confine me so much that this just turns into another job?
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The other thing that you have to consider when turning a passion into a career is I would
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highly recommend the book E-Myth because it stands for entrepreneurial myth.
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Just because you're good at a thing doesn't mean that you'll be a good business owner.
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So you might be good at painting, but you may not be great in the business of marketing,
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And so when I talk about business, a lot of the times, I think there was a question
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about turning, making a coaching business later, later in the questions.
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When people ask me about how to start a business, my knee-jerk first immediate response is learn
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You already know how to do the thing to the degree that you need to do it.
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So sure you can get better or you can buy technology and improve in your skillset there.
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But if you don't know how to market, everything else is dead in the water.
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It doesn't matter how great your product or service or offering is.
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So I think when you're talking about the balance between passion and business, are you a good
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And is that even something that you want to do?
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Because if you don't want to do it, then you won't be able to grow a business.
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But you can be passionate about painting or photography or website development or coaching
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fitness or teaching firearms or an infinite number of things that you could be doing in today's
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It's better than any time it's been in history.
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So man, I don't know how to answer the question as to whether you should or should not, but
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Do you want to be in the business of whatever it is?
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Because that's going to take some of the creativity out.
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Do you have the aptitude and desire to market your services?
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Because you'll need to do that if you start a business.
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Do you feel like there's ever a passion or, um, I mean, and I'm Rob, I'm not saying this
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about you, but I, I, I'm assuming that sometimes people get into this conversation because they
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think it's, they will get, it's the only way to find fulfillment in your job is by making
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And do you have thoughts around that and whether you believe that's true or not true, or be
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careful that you're, we're not always chasing, trying to make our passions jobs.
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I would say the same thing about a relationship.
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You know, when you enter into a new relationship, it's fun and exciting and there's a lot there.
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And then you decide to commit yourself to this woman.
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But does that mean that you're no longer passionate about that?
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Well, if you're not, that's on you because there are things that you can do to continue
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to be passionate about the person that you committed to.
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And so you ought to incorporate those things, not just for the next year or two while you
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guys are courting, but for the rest of your lives, if that's the direction that you want
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There's elements of my business that I don't enjoy work still.
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So, but it has to get done because it's connected to something.
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And yes, I am passionate and excited about, but I think even if I weren't, the financial
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I wasn't as passionate and excited about financial planning as I am about this, but
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there was a lot that I really enjoyed about financial planning.
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And one of the things I enjoyed was learning how to market to people that I'd never met
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And now they're literally turning over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars over
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So I learned that I actually really have an aptitude and enjoy marketing services, which
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And so Kip, you and I have talked ad nauseum about making sure that you go all in where
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you are, not only because it isn't going to improve your current circumstances, but it's
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also going to present opportunities that would not exist otherwise.
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If you're a complete train wreck at work, you're not coming in on time, you're doing
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the bare minimum to get by, you're missing deadlines, man, a client is never going to
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come to you and say, Hey, I have an opportunity I want to talk with you about.
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You're never going to put yourself in a position for a promotion.
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If however, you show up fully and decide to be passionately engaged in what you're doing,
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clients who might be in completely unrelated businesses are going to see that and say, Hey,
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I think I've got a spot open on my team in a managerial position.
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And I think you'd be really good in that position.
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Now that's an opportunity presented to you that you would not have had presented to you
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Or your boss is going to say, Hey, you know what, Kip, I've got you in this role here,
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but man, I've seen you excel with the marketing stuff.
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And our marketing director is actually leaving the end of the year.
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And I think we need to have talk with you about what that might look like because you've
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done so well here and you have an aptitude and it seems like you enjoy this, that maybe
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we can look at making some switches within the organization to get you somewhere where
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I mean, how often do you see someone that's just a hustler?
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They have a strong worth at work ethic and they're humble and teachable.
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You just know they will be good at it because of how they show up.
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It's crazy to think how often people hinder themselves by not winning where they are.
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Ryan, would you say that you're, cause you obviously we've talked about this.
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Like, did you even know you're good at it though, until you had to do it?
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And then all of a sudden you're like, Oh, Hey, actually I have a talent for this and I'm
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actually fairly good at it, but it wasn't even on your radar until after you had to figure
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So I, well, I appreciate the compliment and I don't even know that I knew I was good at
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it and I don't know that you can know you're good at it.
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All I knew is I enjoyed it, but you didn't know you enjoyed it until you, you got into it.
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And so that just happened just through wanting to grow my business.
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Just want to, frankly, just wanting to make more money in my financial planning practice.
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I'm like, there's gotta be a better way to do this.
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And there was, and I did it and it wasn't perfect, but it developed and grew and it
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turned into a podcast, which now turned into this.
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And I didn't even know I liked it to your point until I was like, I got to figure something
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And I got the wheels turning and realized that I'm pretty creative.
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I have a good ability to take complex ideas and thoughts and messages and turn them into
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I had to start down that path before I, before I put myself in the position to turn it into
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a business and if we're looking at it from a business perspective, I tend to look at every
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business as a marketing business, every single business.
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If you're a law firm, you're a marketing agency that happens to market legal services.
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If you're a podcast, I'm a marketing agency that happens to offer services, products, coaching,
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If you're selling cars, you're a marketing company that markets vehicles.
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That's the way you should be looking at it if you're a business owner.
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I never focused enough time on marketing when I worked for myself, I, I, I doubled down on
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Like that was just literally my business grew strictly just due to the quality of work that
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But in hindsight, I'm like, man, if I just made investments on the marketing and sell side,
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how much more effective we could have been and how much work I left on the table, right?
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Because of my, my lack of willingness to go in that direction.
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So, well, you know, how, you know, the answer to that is not the answer, but you know, that
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that's true is how many of you guys listening are in a business.
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Let's say, let's say it's law, you're practicing law and there's a new law firm that comes into
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town and they put billboards everywhere and their, their website is beautiful and they're
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very, they're humorous and they're creative and their marketing is on point, but you know
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that they're inferior to you with legal planning, like, you know, it and you, instead of focusing
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on the marketing bitch and gripe and moan about how they don't do as good a job with
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legal work as you guys do again, that might be true and that's all fine and great.
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But if nobody knows that you're better and they're not, it doesn't matter.
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And your cry baby attitude towards a legal firm that's doing a better job marketing is
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your fault because you're not doing a good job marketing.
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And I believe this, if you do, as you believe have the best legal services in town, then
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you have a moral responsibility and obligation to make sure that as many people as humanly
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Don't cry about them not offering good legal services, cry about yourself, not learning to
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In our leadership development program, we talked about effective communication just a couple
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And one of the things that I called out is effective communication is the conduit of your effective
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Meaning if we can't clearly communicate, it doesn't matter if we have great ideas.
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It doesn't matter that we care about our people.
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All those things ultimately do not be, they're not brought to bear in the service of other
00:20:55.820
individuals if we're ineffective with communicating them.
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Is you can be amazing, but if no one knows about you, how amazing are you really?
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If you know, nobody, or does the, or not that, I'm sorry.
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The tree, does the tree, if there's a tree make a sound, you know, if nobody's around
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to hear it, if it falls, if I like to figure out how this works.
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If you didn't, if nobody saw it, if nobody took a picture of it and posted it on Instagram,
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All right, Aaron, Aaron, Ian Erickson, what are some actionable strategies to help you
00:21:51.020
I'm a young man who has had a lot of tribulation growing up, which has led to a strong distrust
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A thinking process that is no longer serving me.
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Like that, I think about that with my own life.
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I look, I, a lot of people will paint their lives, their early lives is, you know, some
00:22:18.300
sort of horrific and tragic upbringing and not everybody had a horrific upbringing.
00:22:22.880
Now I had some things that I think were less than favorable circumstances, but I don't think
00:22:26.940
I had a horrible childhood, but that said, you know, I didn't really have a permanent
00:22:34.940
So I could be resentful and bitter and realize that that's not going to help me.
00:22:42.060
It doesn't help improve my life, but I can actually look at those circumstances and say,
00:23:12.040
I'm pretty sure it was some form of rare cancer.
00:23:15.000
And as he was fighting this, he really struggled because he was always fit and active and he
00:23:22.960
And then even just treatment was rough and painful.
00:23:30.560
Well, come to find out this cancer or this illness.
00:23:33.560
Again, I can't remember right off hand, so you'll have to forgive me on that.
00:23:37.600
And because it was genetic, the likelihood of his children developing this illness were
00:23:43.840
significantly higher because it ran in the family.
00:23:47.780
And he said that as he was going through it and he was learning about this disease, he
00:23:57.480
And he really honed in on the, why did this happen to me?
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And what he said, and I'll never forget, and I'm paraphrasing, but the message is the
00:24:05.720
He said when he started to learn that it was genetic, he knew why it happened to him.
00:24:10.620
It happened to him so that he could help his children navigate it significantly more seamlessly
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He took that on, not voluntarily, but he took that on so that he could help his children
00:24:25.420
go through if they have to, or maybe even find ways to not go through it because of their
00:24:29.980
diet and workouts and training and their overall health.
00:24:37.220
So he began to believe that it didn't happen to him.
00:24:43.220
Same exact set of circumstances, but he chose to look at it as.
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I'm taking this upon myself so that my children don't have to do with it, deal with it the
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And I just, man, that is an incredible, incredible way.
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Not only to look at his situation, but just life.
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And what can you shore up a relationship didn't work out?
00:25:09.100
What skills do you need to develop and how do you need to improve yourself?
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The more that you can look at things happening for you and conspiring for your benefit, as
00:25:19.680
opposed to conspiring against you, the more likely it is that you'll release some of the
00:25:24.000
resentment that you have towards other people and circumstances that you've been through.
00:25:29.300
You know, when we look at resentful, like when we're resentful and we're bitter towards
00:25:35.040
people, I think Ian, it's important to realize that there's a big difference between what
00:25:40.840
happened versus your interpretation of what happened.
00:25:44.640
And most resentfulness and bitter and anger that we have from our past is because we believe
00:25:52.420
that something happened and it meant that we weren't good enough.
00:26:02.280
And there's a high probability of your interpretation of it is different than reality.
00:26:08.240
And, you know, if we look at, you know, let's just make up an example here.
00:26:16.400
So if I had a father that was, you know, highly abusive when I was a kid, and this is going
00:26:25.500
to get, well, I don't know, maybe I don't need to preface this.
00:26:29.260
If, if I had a father that was abusive as a child, I have an option as an adult to say,
00:26:37.000
am I going to take that pass and carry it on into my, into my present state and into the
00:26:42.680
And most people will because they are still blaming their, that father or the way their
00:26:55.900
Well, because if my life is a piece of shit, it's not my fault.
00:27:01.180
And so in essence, it's a lack of taking ownership for your current state and how life is.
00:27:10.860
And I, and I get it that you may have been a victim at one point in your life, but you're
00:27:16.720
perpetuating a victimhood mindset by bringing it into your present state.
00:27:25.740
There's power in understanding that there's probably a big difference between your interpretation
00:27:31.060
of what happened versus what actually happened.
00:27:34.800
And I would suggest that in this example, my abusive father actually probably loved me
00:27:42.120
and probably cared about me and probably was doing the best job that he could do with his
00:27:50.680
And one statement I like to hold onto is if I were Ryan and I was raised the way that Ryan
00:27:56.600
was raised, I would do the same things Ryan would do.
00:27:59.480
And so who are we to place judgment of what should or should not be when we lack empathy of
00:28:06.140
understanding them as a person and probably what they went through.
00:28:12.320
And, but there's power in this is you restore your integrity and you might be like, well, what
00:28:24.120
Well, maybe, or perhaps you have withheld love, affection, and other things from that
00:28:35.480
And maybe you need to go back to the table in this example I've made up, go back to dad
00:28:45.160
I'm going to take extreme ownership and own my part.
00:28:47.320
And the part I'm going to own is how I've reacted, how I've withheld love and affection
00:28:53.220
Because when this happened, when we were younger, I interpreted it as that you didn't care about
00:29:01.860
And I've shown up in a disempowered way towards us.
00:29:07.340
I stonewalled you because of that meaning in reality, I don't even know if that's true
00:29:13.620
So you find the area where you can take ownership and you take ownership.
00:29:19.380
That is the only way that we empower and it's the only way we grow.
00:29:25.080
You can't grow from the experience and become a better man if you don't take ownership of
00:29:32.680
But as long as you keep pushing the blame back on what happened to you as a kid or whatever,
00:29:42.340
You will continue to be a victim of that circumstance and you'll project that in all the
00:29:55.520
You're not used to me not saying anything else.
00:30:09.300
I shouldn't know how to pronounce your last name.
00:30:13.700
We said Keating is, I think, what you and I decided, but maybe we're way off.
00:30:19.080
So Joe, reach out to us, correct us so we can fix that.
00:30:22.840
His question, will there be another session of Order Man on the Warrior Poets Society
00:30:35.720
Well, we talked last week, not specifically about that, but we have talked a little bit
00:30:41.540
We're still trying to figure out how that makes sense.
00:30:44.640
So I can't give you a clear answer, but guys, I still am a huge fan of obviously Warrior
00:30:49.860
Poets Society and their network they have, which is basically Netflix for men from, you
00:30:56.380
know, I've got, I think three seasons on there of our show, exclusive stuff.
00:31:02.300
So the things that I haven't done over here, they've got training videos and culture commentary.
00:31:19.160
What would be an example of something that young men should do and implement to get initiated
00:31:25.060
into becoming a man or what should a father do or implement into a son to initiate him
00:31:33.520
I mean, there's a lot of different things that you can do, but ultimately I think we
00:31:37.500
need to strip it down to what are the factors that should be included in something like this.
00:31:47.040
I'm not talking about death necessarily, but there does have to be a level of risk.
00:31:51.800
There has to be some sort of ceremony or ritual to it that this is a ritualized process.
00:31:58.860
Even if it's just you doing it for the first time, it still has to be a ritualized process.
00:32:03.620
And there has to be some sort of acknowledgement from other men or men of the tribe.
00:32:07.280
So I would say those four things need to be included.
00:32:10.620
And if you look at anything, whether it's somebody going to war, it's challenging.
00:32:27.260
So obviously there's a plan for training, basic training or bootcamp where you actually
00:32:34.560
And then at the end, it's acknowledged by the other men.
00:32:40.540
Your peers are acknowledged because they went through it as well.
00:32:43.760
And your supervisors, your superiors, they are acknowledging that as well.
00:32:49.080
They're literally pinning you with something, acknowledging you as a member of us now.
00:32:58.060
And so we, I've done things like, uh, there's a really cool hike here.
00:33:01.960
When my kids turn eight, we go to this, go on this hike and we hike and, uh, they, they
00:33:11.300
It's not an easy thing to do for an eight-year-old to do.
00:33:14.640
Cause we go up there and we spend the night and it's cold and uncomfortable and maybe we'll
00:33:19.820
I mean, it's not, again, it's not risk of death, but there's still some risk there.
00:33:22.840
There are certain conversations that we have and certain items that I give to them where
00:33:31.440
So it's me acknowledging that you've gone through this, you've completed this and you're
00:33:38.080
And maybe, maybe ideas like what stages do you do for that?
00:33:42.220
Cause obviously you're, you've talked about a stage at age eight.
00:33:46.280
Um, what ages are you executing kind of a ritual of some sort?
00:33:50.500
I mean, I would say do that every, every, you know, one to two years, you can do that
00:33:53.620
as a yearly thing, or you can do it every couple of years, but every year there should
00:33:57.020
Um, my youngest son who's, uh, seven, he's talking about wanting to go hunting.
00:34:02.280
He's like, cause he sees me going hunting with his older brothers and he wants to go.
00:34:05.920
My daughter, uh, is also going, uh, we're, we're planning a hunt for later in the year
00:34:11.020
So they see me going through that with their older brothers and they want to go through
00:34:15.260
So again, there's that ritualized component of it.
00:34:19.120
And then there's a ceremony, meaning you actually killed your first animal.
00:34:22.200
Like that's part of the process of growing and developing.
00:34:25.120
So I would say at least yearly, you want to incorporate some sort of experience that has
00:34:30.600
those factors and it gets progressively challenging, which is going to be good for you too.
00:34:35.260
Cause you got to stay on your game, but it'll get progressively challenging as you go.
00:34:41.680
Like I talked about, it could be a hunt, uh, you know, any, any number of things that could
00:34:46.260
be based on where you are and what you like and what you're proficient with.
00:34:53.900
We, um, Asia and I, we did, um, our, our 2024 planning over the weekend.
00:35:00.060
And one of the things that we did is we talked about each kid and kind of the four
00:35:05.480
quadrants of, you know, how are they doing in these four areas and what can we do to,
00:35:10.360
you know, be better parents to help them spiritually or physically and what things we have in place.
00:35:18.060
And one thing that we had on our docket was the challenge for us this year.
00:35:25.040
And, and I think she's, I mean, I think I pretty confident.
00:35:28.640
I think she signed up for her first half Ironman and that's her, that's what she's taken on
00:35:35.340
Um, I'm taking away from this conversation of, Hmm, we didn't do that for our kids though.
00:35:42.360
And so I think I'm going to bring that back to the drawing table this week of, all right,
00:35:53.340
Like what's the thing this year, what's the big hairy challenge that's going to push them
00:36:00.240
and, uh, is going to be something that they can work towards and, and build some confidence
00:36:08.620
Cause that's, that's going to help us kind of think through what we can do for our kids
00:36:15.020
Boy, cause I, now I have to do a stupid 5k, you know, tough mutter or whatever.
00:36:18.360
And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm being pulled into half Ironman training all of a sudden.
00:36:24.220
I know that I'm like, ah, I know that that's good.
00:36:28.960
It's good when every it's, it's like the adage, a bear shits in the woods.
00:36:36.860
It's the adage of a rising tide lifts all ships.
00:36:42.000
All right, Jerry Sadell, what is the best way to grow a coaching business?
00:36:46.540
So many people do not want the accountability, discipline, and structure having challenges
00:36:54.700
Look, if you're, I'm going to be a little, little firm on this one.
00:36:58.320
If you're already saying nobody wants coaching accountability, like you're never going to
00:37:03.540
find anybody because you already decided that too many people don't want coaching and
00:37:11.640
You just have to find a bunch of people to prove you right.
00:37:20.580
We've got what we've got tens of thousands of people who have gone through the iron council.
00:37:28.960
You just need a hundred for now, 200, 500, a thousand, whatever, but you don't need everyone.
00:37:40.560
I think most people do want coaching and accountability, but what you're going to have
00:37:44.660
to figure out is where their time is, how they're going to be able to afford it, how they're going
00:37:51.340
to balance doing this extra thing with what they already have going on, how to make sure
00:37:55.780
you articulate and communicate that their investment is going to be returned tenfold or plus to them.
00:38:06.940
They just have some objections to it, which are valid.
00:38:10.860
If I'm looking for coaching, I have to figure out where in my schedule that's going to go.
00:38:20.720
And that's something that I, as a coach or providing the services need to identify, anticipate
00:38:27.800
And then once you learn what those problems are for people, maybe they've done this in
00:38:32.640
the past and they've had a horrible experience because whoever they hired didn't do a good
00:38:36.980
I need to know that as the one providing the services, because now I know what I need to
00:38:41.500
So the more problems that we can identify, not that they don't want it, but what's keeping
00:38:46.820
Because if I said to you, Hey, do you want to make a million dollars this year?
00:38:56.640
Well, you need to do this, this, this, and this.
00:38:58.340
Well, I mean, I'm busy with work and like my kids, I'm coaching my kids' soccer team and
00:39:07.600
So you want it, but there's hurdles to having it.
00:39:12.800
If I could show you how to do that, would you work with me to make a million dollars
00:39:17.200
That's marketing, but you got to figure out what the pain points are.
00:39:26.100
People don't want accountability, discipline, and structure.
00:39:32.860
How do you innovate in a way that discipline is not an issue?
00:39:35.540
How do you communicate in a way that accountability sounds awesome, right?
00:39:43.000
And then that makes you so much better as a coach because every other coach is going,
00:39:48.180
well, these are the things you're going to struggle with.
00:39:50.160
It's like, it's like, it's like the analogy of, um, change.
00:40:22.500
How am I, what am I doing benefits the individual.
00:40:26.260
And if that's clear and they, they can see the value and I communicate and articulate in a way,
00:40:35.940
What's the problem is us clarifying the benefit to individuals.
00:40:45.560
The question is, is whether they're confident in the actions.
00:40:49.940
Okay, well then now how do I build up the confidence, right?
00:40:52.480
How do I articulate my message and my coaching in a way that they don't question whether it's
00:40:58.120
Like back to what you said earlier, man, there's, there's power.
00:41:02.320
We're in finding a way and innovating when we're committed to the idea.
00:41:10.400
You're not serving yourself even, you know, in that example.
00:41:17.840
I often feel guilty if I'm not a hundred percent engaged with my son all the time when we are
00:41:24.200
If I have plans to, to do home project, I have no issue with this, but if there's a downtime
00:41:29.480
at the house, I feel I must be engaged since he is our only child, seven years old.
00:41:33.800
So my wife is concerned that he is not learning to entertain himself.
00:41:39.860
I want to be balanced being the best father I can be with making sure I give him the tools
00:41:46.100
I feel guilty if I'm not engaged, even if we have been together doing things all day,
00:41:50.640
I believe my wife is correct, but I don't know where to draw the line thoughts and ideas
00:41:56.660
I thought that was a good point, like learning to entertain himself.
00:41:59.800
So I think we can do that at seven years old by fostering certain things that, that
00:42:06.700
So my daughter, for example, really loves to draw.
00:42:12.060
And if I have something I need to do and get taken care of because I'm engaged, I will talk
00:42:16.460
Hey, you know, hon, we've been doing this all day.
00:42:19.340
I have a couple of phone calls I need to make, or I'm going to go to the gym for an hour,
00:42:27.620
And then that way this evening we can come back and we can do something else together.
00:42:34.400
And you can also articulate how important it is that you go to the gym so you can stay
00:42:37.820
healthy so that we're here and present and available and not tired all the time.
00:42:41.400
So you talk to her about that in the meantime, you know, my daughter really enjoys drawing.
00:42:45.880
So I can share with her a couple of things that she might be able to do.
00:42:50.100
Maybe it's go play, play outside, call a, call a friend and have her come over or go
00:42:56.000
over there, draw, giving her ideas and just letting her struggle through that a little
00:43:02.500
Our job is just to foster some of that growth and creativity by providing opportunities to
00:43:07.960
Another thing that you can do is you can also, maybe you're already doing this, include them
00:43:13.140
If you have a project around the house that needs to be accomplished, your, your son is
00:43:24.500
It's going to be frustrating at times, but if you're feeling guilty about not doing things
00:43:28.600
together and not being engaged, here's a great way for you to get things done and also include
00:43:47.120
In fact, he does a different workout typically than I do, but we have the drive there.
00:43:51.120
We have the workout time we'll pass or I'll spot him or he'll spot me.
00:43:56.820
That's just a good little, I'm going to spend the time there anyways.
00:43:59.580
What a great way to involve him for something healthy.
00:44:03.280
He sees the results I'm producing and it's a great way to get what I need done and include
00:44:07.740
So when you have a child who's seven getting older, that's a nice thing because you can
00:44:14.640
And I think there's, you know, to your example, some of the examples like, you know, whether
00:44:19.360
it's reading time, it's like, okay, we're going to take a 30 minute break.
00:44:24.080
They're kind of doing it by themselves, but they're doing it with you, if that makes sense.
00:44:27.460
Or, you know, one thing I've done is like, hey, let's clean our rooms.
00:44:37.460
And then after we're done with our rooms, then we'll come back together.
00:44:41.020
And so it's a little bit of we're doing it together, but we're really not.
00:44:45.440
And allows them to kind of, you know, run solo for a bit.
00:44:48.960
And I'm not hovering over them, making sure they're doing everything perfectly.
00:44:53.920
And that they're able to entertain and have a little bit of discipline in themselves.
00:44:57.880
But we're kind of doing it as a partnership at the same time.
00:45:00.560
I think there's a lot of little elements of that we could do that.
00:45:04.960
And the last thing I wrote here to Kip is just boundaries and commitment.
00:45:08.180
Like you want to make sure that if you're reading example, don't let your kids interfere
00:45:13.720
If they, if you're reading and it's reading time and everybody knows it's reading time
00:45:16.740
and they say, Hey dad, can you get me some milk?
00:45:23.840
Well, in a half an hour, I can get you some milk.
00:45:27.040
Your kid's not going to die of thirst because they don't get a drink for a half hour.
00:45:32.960
They're going to test and push on it all the time.
00:45:35.700
And the more that you waffle, the more they know they can manipulate you.
00:45:38.500
And then they know they start to learn the tactics they need to do in order to manipulate
00:45:44.820
So establish the boundary, communicate the boundary, uphold the boundary.
00:45:48.900
And then the last thing I wrote is make sure that you honor your commitment.
00:45:52.200
And I haven't always been great at this, but if I say, Hey, look, no, I can't go ride
00:45:57.700
bikes with you right now because I'm going to go to the gym for an hour, but I'll do that
00:46:03.500
You have to do it when you get home because you said you would.
00:46:06.380
So if you want people to honor your boundaries, then you have to honor your commitments and
00:46:11.800
And the more you do that, they'll begin to see, Oh yeah, dad does go to the gym at this
00:46:18.420
And, but when he gets home, he always rides bikes with me because they know you've set
00:46:23.900
You may not be setting a precedent so they don't have anything to run on or information
00:46:27.420
to, to, uh, interpret, give them good information and follow through on your commitments.
00:46:34.180
I can't help, but add this, even though this is not part of, uh, Bob's question, but the
00:46:39.340
opportunity to create delayed gratification, super, super important.
00:46:52.660
Um, we live in a dopamine world and, and kids are getting instant gratification, every
00:47:01.920
direction, any opportunity to teach them to grind a little, not to be excited right now.
00:47:09.700
And I'm going to have to wait for a reward over a period of time.
00:47:13.400
The more we can teach our kids to do that, the better, because in my opinion, that will
00:47:18.860
be the determining factor on whether they're successful in life is their ability to delay
00:47:25.220
So look for those opportunities to do that as much as humanly possible.
00:47:29.520
And to his wife's, uh, comment, us constantly engaging with our kids all the time is a form
00:47:37.580
of constant gratification because we're entertaining in the whole time.
00:47:44.860
They need that time to kind of push through and do some difficult things and get reward
00:47:55.580
Well, why don't you, uh, why don't you finish this off today?
00:47:58.060
So the, the key thing is enrollment for the iron council is closed.
00:48:02.660
Uh, but you can join us for our battle ready program in the meantime, until Roman opens in,
00:48:07.700
in Q2 that's order of man.com slash battle ready.
00:48:13.900
Mickler on Twitter X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler, and then get your swag as always at
00:48:25.960
And as always, I hope we gave you something to think about and consider.
00:48:28.540
Uh, we will be back on Friday until then go out there, take action, become the man you
00:48:33.520
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:48:37.380
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:48:41.520
We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.