00:05:22.200And quite frankly, I want to be comfortable with it.
00:05:24.540I don't want it to be an awkward thing every time I'm trying to help you be
00:05:28.740happy. So how can we do that? You know, can we set a time?
00:05:33.400Can we go fishing and talk? Can we go, you know,
00:05:38.180to dinner? Can it like just ask where he might feel comfortable and having a
00:05:45.860conversation, but coming from a place where he understands it's because I care
00:05:51.040about him. I love him. I want to engage with him and try and help him where I can, um, and see
00:05:59.120where it goes from there, you know? And if he's like, I think, no, I hate you, you know, then
00:06:04.300that's, that could be a good way to open the conversation. Then ask why, you know, what did
00:06:09.420I do? Where did I screw up? Where did I take some ownership, right? Be willing to do that. Um, if,
00:06:14.980if you're going to engage like that and, you know, it's, I've been through that with him before
00:06:20.560too um you know and my middle kid too because i approached him i tried to approach him like my
00:06:26.360older son and messed up a little bit and got him mad and had to own it and say sorry and which for
00:06:33.620my personality is super hard because i don't want to say sorry and yeah i don't know i'm always a
00:06:40.200little careful of of saying like things that are hard that aren't and i and i tell these this to
00:06:45.360the guys all the time like i'm not saying it couldn't be a struggle for people or dismissing
00:06:49.120what you're saying but also i think we need to be careful of is it hard no we're just choosing
00:06:55.020not to do it right maybe it's the ego getting in the way or you know maybe well that's what it is
00:07:00.620it's the ego getting in the way and that's 100 what it is yeah and i think we play this game of
00:07:06.720like oh it's hard it's like yeah i'm not gonna buy i don't buy that one like it's not hard so
00:07:12.080it's naturally it's naturally hard right it's like if you yeah i think like i said a struggle
00:07:16.780or a challenge for sure naturally or your personality or how you even grew up is a factor
00:07:21.520as well it's like if you're an alcoholic or if you're if you are your tendency is to
00:07:28.940be addictive right like some people have an addictive personality i have that i have a lot
00:07:33.500of addicts in my family on one side of my family and so if you have that tendency it's harder for
00:07:41.300you to be at a party and everybody's drinking for you to not at least be holding you know for me
00:07:47.400when I stopped drinking I had to hold a soda in my hand and then soda turned into water because I
00:07:52.580was starting to get a little chubby right like pounding soda because that was my habit right so
00:07:58.020it was like that was my tendency was to grab for a bottle you know beer like and then I would just
00:08:03.420drinking whatever when i was when i was drinking all the time and um so in that sense some things
00:08:12.280are harder for some people than others that's what i mean by hard so in that you have to be
00:08:17.740be you have to be aware enough and you're right it's not hard when you make the decision
00:08:22.960right because i have that tendency but i haven't drank in 25 or 26 years or something like that
00:08:29.640because i'm aware of it and i don't even allow myself to do it by making the choice of not yeah
00:08:37.220it not being hard if that makes sense yeah and i you know and to go back to the to this question
00:08:43.380what what is the ultimate outcome that you want well you want to be connected with your son
00:08:49.460well if that's the case then in many cases most of us i would say as fathers need to learn to
00:08:55.520apologize we just need to learn to get over the ego because that's what's going to draw you close
00:08:59.620to your kid but there was an interesting uh concept that i was introduced to just the other
00:09:05.260day actually i read this or heard this from patrick david bett and he said there's three phases that
00:09:10.120a young man goes through with how he views and perceives his father so the first is idol idolize
00:09:17.660so when your kid's young he's six he's seven he's eight years old man he looks at you like a freaking
00:09:23.940hero you can do no wrong everything you touch turns to gold he wants to be like you he wants
00:09:29.760to do the same things as you he wants to talk with you so that's that idolized phase and then
00:09:35.700he moves into demonized phase and this this demonized phase hits about i would say late 12
00:09:42.420early 13 where the hormones start kicking in the testosterone production starts to rev up
00:09:48.440and what happens with a young man is then he's trying to rebel he's trying to gain some
00:09:55.600independence he's trying to establish some individual sovereignty he's becoming more
00:10:01.000physical he's learning to solve problems using higher elevated levels of testosterone so he
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00:10:09.660starts to look at his dad with a little chink in the armor like oh dad doesn't know dad does this
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00:10:15.400I see where he messes up he should do this better I could do better I could be this I could be that
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00:10:20.360if it weren't for dad and then what ends up happening is about I would say I would say
00:10:27.560probably generally about 17-ish I would say 17-18 he gets through that demonization phase
00:10:35.780as long as a man's handled it correctly he gets through that demonization phase and then he starts
00:10:40.440moving into uh humanizing his father and now as hey you know what dad wasn't the greatest but he
00:10:47.280did these things i see where he messed up but i know he always loved me he wasn't always the most
00:10:52.960patient but he was always at my games and that's where that humanized element comes in and i love
00:10:58.060that framework because what it does especially in this case with this question is it lets you know
00:11:04.060that more than likely unless there's some underlying factor like you talked about sean
00:11:08.460that this is just normal this is just a normal process and so i've got a 15 year old but when
00:11:15.640he was 13 and 14 we really had a hard time connecting and now we we get along great
00:11:22.460but part of the reason is is because i ask him better questions i love the idea of what you said
00:11:28.200scheduling something that needs to be had a conversation that needs to be had and then also
00:11:32.380just getting into their world you know you know you know my my kids you know breck and any you
00:11:37.220know all of them but brecken is like me you know we'll go hunt we like sports i mean everything
00:11:43.740that i like he likes it's so easy eli's different you know still athletic like sports but he's more
00:11:49.960into fashion he he likes to skateboard he likes video games he likes shoes he's a shoe guy right
00:11:56.460shoes yeah he loves his sneakers things that i don't necessarily really care all that much about
00:12:01.980but when you are trying to connect with your son get into their world it's not about the shoes or
00:12:08.860the video game or the car I mean he'll pull up a thing on a car and he'll tell me all the stats
00:12:13.420and my eyes kind of glaze over because in my mind I'm like I don't care about this but I care about
00:12:19.680him and if he cares about it then I care about it and so I ask good questions and a good question
00:12:25.680is not hey how you doing today or how are you those are closed-end questions i'm doing good
00:12:33.000i'm good like the more you can get better advanced question asking the better you're
00:12:40.140going to be able to connect not just with your kid but with other people so start asking those
00:12:44.100open-ended questions so a question might be hey what was the best part of your day today
00:12:48.040or hey you just got back from football practice what was what's the one play you learned better
00:12:53.400or who who are you hanging out with these days and why do you guys get along so well
00:12:59.540what what girl do you have an interest in what what are you attracted to in her
00:13:04.540so now in a way he's obligated to answer with more than just yes no i don't know maybe yeah
00:13:12.180whatever but that's been helpful too is just improving the quality of my questions i heard
00:13:17.060a great quote the quality of your life will be determined by the quality of questions that you
00:13:21.820ask and i believe that to be wholeheartedly true all right let's see what else do we got
00:13:28.020we got a lot of questions today so i'm just trying to figure out um
00:13:31.420here's one this one comes from connor sullivan he says i know exactly what i need to do in life
00:13:38.980and then he gives us a list he says i need to lose 30 pounds i need to stop drinking i need
00:13:45.220to wake up earlier and stop wasting time scrolling and online he says why do men still avoid doing
00:13:54.200what they know needs to be done that's their habit it's uh i mean it's as simple as that
00:14:04.500just as simple as knowing um that's what you've built your habits to do um with or without you
00:14:14.080thinking about them and so you have to change that habit i mean obviously i know you're a big
00:14:19.340fan of atomic habits um and then there's another book called the power of habit which is basically
00:14:24.360the same structure just a couple things you know said a little differently he's coming on the
00:14:31.380podcast actually awesome yeah i mean those those are two of my favorite books those are i have i
00:14:37.500get asked about this almost on a weekly basis you know in my business from guys asking me oh what do
00:14:42.880i know what i need to do i just don't do it um and it's so like a couple of my favorites are first
00:14:50.000start with um like finding where you're wasting the most time you know you you said it okay so
00:14:58.220you're scrolling so why are you still allowing yourself to have those apps on your phone
00:15:03.520just rip instagram and facebook off your phone or twitter whatever it is take it off you know like
00:15:10.700it's that simple you know so what's more important you finding useless information off the internet
00:15:18.240all day long or losing your 30 pounds and then you get rid of this that hour two or three or
00:15:26.180whatever you waste scrolling and replace that with your trip to the gym or to jiu-jitsu or to
00:15:31.520yoga even whatever you said like it's funny you said yoga but go to one of those classes and have
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00:15:36.840it kick your ass you know and like you'll be you'll be dripping sweat you know you'll you'll
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00:15:42.240it's it's great whatever it is it doesn't it could sound ridiculous it could sound too easy
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00:15:48.180um one of the best podcasts i've ever listened to in my life um addresses this and that's
00:15:55.760jelly roll on rogan did you listen to that no i haven't dude it's so freaking good because the
00:16:03.780guy's 500 pounds and now he's down to like two something you know he's lost like two whole people
00:16:10.760basically and um and he just started with walking like he just had to walk he couldn't even get up
00:16:20.220and like go for a walk without being gassed he couldn't walk to the end of his driveway
00:16:24.740so he started with that you know like walk to the end of the driveway and back and be gassed and
00:16:29.740then walk like you know uh five houses down and back and then walk 10 houses down and back and
00:16:37.400then like just build up that habit of walking where he could walk around the block without
00:16:42.800getting gassed you know and i'm like i'm not saying it anywhere near the way he did and it's
00:16:47.980it's powerful because you're hearing firsthand somebody that didn't take any of those excuses
00:16:55.020of i know what i need to do it's just it's like you were talking about before but it's hard
00:16:59.700right um well another thing you could do like even with this because i i'm a firm believer in
00:17:05.380that small those small little steps is you know what maybe don't delete your apps right away
00:17:10.320maybe just go on a walk while you're scrolling and and so now you know you walk let's say two
00:17:16.780or three miles that's good that's gonna take you you know 40 minutes maybe let's say it's like all
00:17:22.540right 40 minutes that's your that's your scrolling time you got 40 minutes you can you can scroll
00:17:27.400while you walk i wouldn't advise that long term but if that's what gets you moving then do it
00:17:31.900yeah just look up when you cross the street i mean that means you're getting yeah right exactly
00:17:35.680yeah or run into a you know do a face plant into a telephone call or something
00:17:39.800oh man but you know what's interesting about everybody is i was just gonna say what's
00:17:48.300interesting about this that i found is that you know all of us have probably driven on a muddy
00:17:53.340dirty dirt back road somewhere right and you know right after a storm some asshole goes up there
00:18:00.600and he just plows through the dirt and makes these you know muddy tracks and then what happens is
00:18:06.120you're driving it's literally like trying to pull the tires into the track yeah and if it's slick
00:18:12.220and muddy it's actually pretty hard to pop yourself up out of those those ruts and sometimes
00:18:16.900it requires you to give it some gas and jerk the wheel and pop yourself up out of there. And then
00:18:23.600you've got to be vigilant about staying out of those tracks. And the same thing is true about
00:18:27.120habits. You know, sometimes it's got to take a big change. Like, Hey, you know what? I am going
00:18:32.420to go do jujitsu. I am going to go do that crazy thing I've always wanted to do. I am going to
00:18:37.360stop cold Turkey on drinking or smoking or whatever it might be. And it takes, it takes a
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00:18:44.160violent disruptive action in some ways to really get yourself out of that situation
00:18:49.480you it's that's why i like those books and i like that as a start like if he hasn't read
00:18:56.540those just start with one of them even if you're listening to it right you listen to the audible
00:19:01.120and pay attention while you're driving around you know and you have the time to do it if you're
00:19:06.060driving anywhere um to at least listen but you know I think of that habit it still serves me
00:19:15.080today like um when I when it was first introduced to me is before I read the book but it was a guy
00:19:21.380told me he said hey catch yourself wasting time and then replace it with the things that you know
00:19:27.100are useful to you and the example he used was he's like I used to do it I used to be obsessed
00:19:32.060with college football. So every Saturday I'd find myself spending eight to 10 hours in front of the
00:19:37.780TV, watching football games, you know, and not a single one of those. And this was in my business
00:19:43.460that he was talking about this, where he's like, you know, and then I, I added up how many phone
00:19:48.800calls I could have made in that time, you know, to book appointments. And that would make me money
00:19:54.200directly make me money. Um, and he's like, yeah, it was a Saturday. He's like, but what would I
00:20:00.320rather you know waste time watching something that was never gonna pay me or do anything to
00:20:06.000serve my family you know and basically just root for somebody else to win their life or you know
00:20:13.560replace the time with something that directly serves me he's like so I would start catching
00:20:17.640myself I'd be like one or two football games in and be like oh instead of this I'm gonna make
00:20:24.440phone calls he's like and I didn't do the fill the whole eight to ten hours with phone calls he's
00:20:28.620like, but it started with 30 minutes of phone calls. And all of a sudden that yielded a few
00:20:33.580more appointments that week. And all of a sudden I started making an extra thousand bucks a month,
00:20:38.5202000 a month. And then I'm like, man, what if I did two hours? What if I did three hours? And
00:20:43.860you know, the two or 3000 a month extra turned into 10 grand a month extra. Um, just from
00:20:50.340replacing that one little habit where I was wasting time and turning it into useful time
00:20:55.480towards the pursuit i was taking and um and then that became my habit and then so like i took that
00:21:02.160started doing the same thing you know replacing all the things this is before social media or
00:21:07.580you know even cell phones like no text messages no anything so back then it was tv right and
00:21:14.040turning off the tv and not watching it replacing it with with useful activities and and physically
00:21:20.900everything to where literally that's still my habit today, you know, where I caught myself on
00:21:27.020Saturday, just kind of being lazy. I knew there was this project I've been putting off, um, clearing
00:21:32.640the Creek at my house. Um, that was, that was blocked, um, in causing flooding. And I had a
00:21:39.800window of two hours where something happened. And I was, I was like, okay, I could chill and do
00:21:45.120nothing. Or I could finally just attack that thing. And I went and attacked it, you know,
00:21:49.780got it done and it's finished but that's without the habit I would have just wasted that two hours
00:21:57.220right so it's like catching myself knowing what and then simultaneously with that I know
00:22:03.280this has gotten long but this is an important piece is knowing what you want like and it's
00:22:11.440got to be more important than all the rest of it all of the comfort and when you know what you want
00:22:19.220bad enough you're going to have the things to replace that wasted time with without it without
00:22:26.880knowing what you want badly enough and it not being important enough um you're not going to
00:22:33.680know what to fill the time with and it's going to turn into more wasted time because that's your
00:22:39.080habit your habit is to do something no matter what right and so knowing what you want and then what
00:22:45.240the actions are. That's why I like the battle plan so much, right? It's like knowing what the
00:22:50.920actions are that are going to get you to that goal. Um, and then filling your wasted time with
00:22:59.040those things. Well, and I think that's also why it's so important to plan out your day the night
00:23:03.960before, because if you wake up this tomorrow morning, let's say without a plan, like you don't
00:23:10.440know what workout you're going to do. You don't know what you need to get done at work. You don't
00:23:13.480know what activities your kids have you don't know what your wife's got going on and what you
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00:23:17.700need to plan around i mean you're just winging it flying by the seat of your pants and of course
00:23:21.980you're going to be wasting time on your phone or doom scrolling or doing whatever you do but what's
00:23:27.100interesting about habits and it talks about this in atomic habits and the power of habit
00:23:31.220is that it's just chemicals that's all this is and i think if we spend more time thinking about
00:23:39.400how this process of engaging new habits works, it's really not that complex. I mean, yes,
00:23:46.700the process is the way our body develops chemicals and hormones and everything else, but
00:23:51.040there's, we've all heard of dopamine as, as a hormone and it's what they would call a
00:23:56.660neurotransmitter. So anytime a human being engages in an activity that rewards them in some way,
00:24:04.780Even if the reward is getting high, for example, or getting drunk, things that we would overwhelmingly say is not a good reward, our body still feels good about it.
00:24:16.100And then the dopamine hits, and we are so in tune and addicted to the dopamine that we automatically assume it was the behavior that was right.
00:24:25.920And so the dopamine reinforces the behavior, and man, do we want that dopamine.
00:24:30.400so you can actually quite literally reprogram your brain to engage in new habits and to release
00:24:40.420dopamine dopamine based on new behaviors and i think this goes to what you're saying sean about
00:24:46.180hey i want to know what i want right so i'm going to lose 30 pounds well why is that important to
00:24:50.780you oh i want to have confidence why is that important to you i want to feel good about who
00:24:54.420i am i want to show up for my family i want to show up for my wife and so you get down as deep
00:24:58.540as you can. And then you go work out and you get a sweat and you get home and you go to get on the
00:25:04.440scale tomorrow and you're down half a pound dopamine release. And then you have to make
00:25:09.420that connection to the workout is why I lost half a pound. Or the same thing is true with
00:25:15.260this guy wants to lose 30 pounds. You know, I've got a bag of M&Ms sitting on my counter right now.
00:25:21.92010 years ago, eight years ago, maybe even five years ago, I had to down those things. And now
00:25:26.220I'm like, I don't, they don't even sound good to me. It doesn't even sound good because I spent so
00:25:32.400much time reprogramming that, that those, those M&Ms lead to results that I, that are less than
00:25:40.300favorable for me. And 300 calories a day extra leads to, you know, dozens of pounds over the
00:25:49.880year which is crazy to think about yeah um but you have to rewire rewire your brain and i think
00:25:57.740that's why the power of habit and atomic habits is so powerful because it'll help you do that
00:26:02.000all right let's go to um i saw this one where is it okay so this one's from eric lawson he says
00:26:09.600it's kind of interesting because he says something but he's actually doing it as he's saying it he
00:26:14.180says I don't know how to admit that I'm struggling without feeling weak and I think that's a big
00:26:21.880thing for a lot of guys but what's interesting about this is imagine any other scenario of life
00:26:30.340imagine you want to get good at something like you want to get good at jujitsu or you want to
00:26:38.180get good at playing the piano or the guitar or learning how to draw or learning how to take
00:26:44.940pictures. It's interesting because we usually don't beat ourselves up too bad. A little of that
00:26:50.040self-doubt will come in, but we don't say it's weak not to know how to do it. We just engage
00:26:57.640in the behavior of doing it so that we can become strong. We have a healthy perspective for the most
00:27:05.280part with engaging in new behaviors that we know are going to serve us because we know it'll make
00:27:10.600us better. So it's always fascinating to me when we start to get into our minds and get upset about
00:27:16.760like not having it all figured out. You know, maybe you're 40 years old and you thought you'd
00:27:23.480be further down the track. Does that mean you're weak? No, it just means you don't have it figured
00:27:27.480out. It's just a data set that now you can do something new with. And I wish more guys would
00:27:33.300just be okay with where they are i often tell people it's it's there there's no there's no
00:27:41.780virtue in victimhood there's only virtue in overcoming it and i'm not saying that being
00:27:49.060a victim is necessarily bad because people legitimately may have been victimized that
00:27:54.040happens but it's not virtuous to be victimized or to play the victim game or to wallow or to
00:28:00.040feel sorry for yourself that's not virtuous even though popular culture would tell you it is right
00:28:05.620we play these like victim hierarchy games like however many victim points you can get then you're
00:28:11.040the winner and you're rewarded for that but that doesn't work long term and for you if you're
00:28:16.700feeling weak stop it do what you need to do whatever you need to do in order to get yourself
00:28:24.440out of that victimization that you might be slipping into and so that means i'm gonna have
00:28:29.780really close friends. You know, I had a conversation just the other day, a couple actually, over the
00:28:34.920past several weeks, with two men that are really close to me. One is Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge
00:28:40.700and another is Matt Boudreau. And we made a decision months and months ago to just get together
00:28:48.240over a phone call, like a Zoom call, once a month. And we've been doing that pretty consistently for
00:28:54.640the past seven or eight months or so. And I noticed the last time that we talked, so last,
00:29:01.560maybe it was two months ago, that we were just skimming the surface of what we could potentially
00:29:06.680talk about. We were all talking about how good the business is and life's good and the kids are good
00:29:12.000and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, you know what? This is kind of bullshit. I don't need to
00:29:17.300have a meeting for the sake of meetings. I've got other things I could be doing. I don't need to
00:29:21.880tell everybody my life is good i could actually be doing something so i share oh no i can't stand
00:29:30.080being in those kind of conversations it's horror it's such a waste of time everybody's like yeah
00:29:34.180i'm good the kids are good life's good i'm like bullshit and so i but i was engaged in it i was
00:29:39.540doing it myself and so i told these guys a couple of things that were were challenging for me to
00:29:45.040admit you know weren't comfortable for me to admit but i thought you know this is something i want out
00:29:50.200of this relationship. I want to actually be able to have real conversations. I want to be able to
00:29:55.300tell these guys things that I would not probably tell anybody else. Insecurities, inadequacies,
00:30:01.920temptations, all of those things. And if I want that, then it's on me to do something about it.
00:30:09.680It's not anybody else's responsibility to ensure I'm getting what I need. That's my responsibility.
00:30:15.400so I opened up and I shared some things with these guys and man it was so liberating for me
00:30:20.580a lot more accountability built in and then over the past several weeks they've been opening up
00:30:25.480about things that they're dealing with that I didn't I had no idea and I've known these guys
00:30:30.700for 10 years and I had no idea of the suffering that they're experiencing but it takes somebody
00:30:37.600to go first and if anything getting help that you need brotherhood therapy getting engaged in
00:30:45.060hobbies and activities ditching the stuff that's not serving you like that past question that's
00:30:50.040not strength that's actually the thing that's going to make you strong it's courageous it's
00:30:53.860not strength in and of itself it's courage which leads to strength so that's my take
00:30:59.600as you when you were talking i was i wrote down a couple things um that and i'm trying to find a
00:31:10.360way to say it without sounding like an asshole, but I don't think I can. I like, I don't think
00:31:15.760you can either. I know you well enough. You just always sound like an asshole. So you guys just
00:31:19.400take it with a grain of salt. He's got a good heart, but you know, it fails on delivery at times.
00:31:25.900That I'm not worried about either, but it, it, like I do pass judgment on guys constantly,
00:31:34.420but on the guys that do the two things you talked about it like it drives me crazy when
00:31:42.760people play the victim i can't stand i think like the weakest men are like don't take ownership
00:31:50.040right um like that one drives me crazy but i think that's a normal i think most strong men
00:31:55.880and especially high achievers feel that way but i think the one that gets missed and maybe
00:32:02.280but my perspective is it really drives me nuts that quote-unquote tough guys that don't ask for
00:32:09.700help that one I think is like one of the weakest qualities that a you know quote-unquote strong man
00:32:17.320can have is to not be and I know like I don't like the word vulnerable either I know you don't
00:32:24.200really like that word but the vulnerable like being vulnerable enough to at least admit that
00:32:30.580you don't know it all you don't have it all you don't that you do need help that you need a support
00:32:37.020system that you you know you're not the the be all and end all um is hard for men to do
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00:32:48.460much harder than women women are the opposite they they build support groups around themselves
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00:32:55.600constantly. Right. Um, so it's like, that's something we, I think can learn the most from
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00:33:02.720women is to be willing to ask questions that you, especially if you think you're going to sound
00:33:11.780stupid or if you're think you're going to sound weak, if you, I think it's weak to not ask the
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00:33:18.820question. I know it. It's a, you mentioned you did because you're afraid and you're not addressing
00:33:24.340it that makes it weakness that's it's cowardly is what it is totally cowardly that's why I think
00:33:29.600it kind of disgusts me right because I'm like dude how weak are you that's that's like that's
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00:33:36.420a punk move you know on yourself like that's you're being a puss right like um at least be
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00:33:43.800man enough to to get help right to to get support to overcome that thing you know instead of it
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00:33:53.080being a constant thing in your life um and then the crazy thing is is when you do and when you're
00:33:58.660willing to that it only makes you stronger because now you have that piece of the puzzle that you
00:34:03.460didn't have that makes you more complete it makes you in my opinion more of a man it makes you
00:34:10.960more adequate it and it gives you more confidence and i think that's why it disgusts me is because
00:34:17.660these too many tough guys put on a shell and if you if you do it a lot and if you're around it a
00:34:27.060lot and especially if you're leading people a lot and especially men a lot um you can feel their
00:34:34.420weakness no matter how much of a shell they put on and how tough they make themselves try and look
00:34:40.880on the outside um you know deep down like there's hurt and there's weakness and there's and I
00:34:49.160honestly and and it's not even that I'm disgusted as much as I just feel bad for them you know it's
00:34:54.500like you want them to overcome that thing and gain that confidence so they can get to that next step
00:35:03.680in their life so i think it's the reframing it from um if i ask the question i'm weak to
00:35:12.100where the way i look at it is if i don't ask that makes me weak if i'm not willing to look weak
00:35:21.520to be stronger then that makes me weak you know and when you reframe it like that i think it helps
00:35:27.220change and i don't even think it's weakness not to know how to do something what's interesting
00:35:31.980I brought up this one years ago, but you know, people will, the world will mock a man for not
00:35:40.340knowing how to do something. The world thinks it should know how to do, right? So maybe you don't
00:35:45.520know how to fight or change the oil on your truck or hunt or whatever, pick, pick your task of
00:35:52.160choice and the world will mock you for it. And then you decide, well, okay, maybe I'll go learn
00:35:59.000how to do it you know i never learned how to hunt so maybe i'll figure it out and so you start to
00:36:03.200learn how to hunt and you invest in courses or programs or self-improvement something like the
00:36:07.920iron council and then the world will mock you not only for not knowing how to do it but the fact
00:36:13.780that you're actually putting yourself in the position to learn how to do it it's asinine that
00:36:18.740we buy into that okay wait so i'm supposed to know but if i don't know because i was never taught
00:36:24.100and i go out and get help then i'm weak for for trying to figure out how to do the thing you told
00:36:29.920me i was weak for not knowing how to do it's insane and and men deal with this all the time
00:36:35.060so the reality is turn that off and just go figure it out you know how many guys do we talk with sean
00:36:42.100on a daily basis who didn't have a dad to teach them things you know how to how to drive stick
00:36:49.120how to hunt how to hike how to read a map how to shoot a gun how to throw a punch how to throw a
00:36:53.760baseball how to pick your thing and their dad just wasn't around regulating emotions if you want to
00:36:59.220get into the deeper stuff regulating emotions controlling your anger um defending and standing
00:37:04.460up and having the courage and audacity to be bold and brave but what i i made a pivot i like when
00:37:11.380you were talking about reframing because everything that happens to you is or at least your perception
00:37:21.520of it is based on the story that you make up about the circumstances. So if you go through
00:37:27.900a divorce, for example, and I talk with divorced men every day, and some of them are bitter and
00:37:34.460hostile and angry, and they might have some legitimate reasons to feel that way in certain
00:37:39.820cases. But that's a story about a woman that you made up. It's not unequivocally true. It's
00:37:47.680subjective. And I know other men who have been in even more, I would say, difficult marriages
00:37:54.100from the surface, from the outside looking in, who decided to take ownership and who aren't
00:37:59.680bitter or hostile or angry. They're actually hopeful and optimistic and growing. And so
00:38:05.960reframing is important. And the reframe that I came up with is this. Because it was hard for me
00:38:13.540to ask for help in the past it's not anymore but my reframe is when I ask somebody for help
00:38:21.460I'm not only am I working on developing myself I'm giving somebody the opportunity to serve
00:38:26.900so Sean if I reach out to you and I'm like hey man like I really need help with my business
00:38:32.040because you're you're a tremendous business owner you've got very successful businesses I know how
00:38:37.480you do financially and I reach out to you and I'm like hey man I'm really struggling with my
00:38:41.320business? Can you give me some coaching and guidance? That's going to help me in my business,
00:38:45.580but it's also giving you an opportunity to share your knowledge and your wisdom and your power and
00:38:51.320your influence and your knowledge. And that's what makes a man valuable. So I, by asking,
00:38:58.740just gave you the opportunity to be valuable, which makes me valuable to you. And then there's
00:39:05.200one other thing I wanted to share here too, is that I think asking for help is a habit. I do.
00:39:10.400yeah i think it's just a habit that you develop i was at home depot several months ago and i was
00:39:15.200getting a bunch of wood at home depot for a project that i was working on around the house
00:39:18.800and so i i got out to the truck i had all the wood in the cart and i start loading it in my truck and
00:39:23.540i had you know two befores and two by eights and two by tens and then i had some sheet wood and
00:39:27.900plywood and stuff like that and i'm loading this it's a hot day and i'm like man i could in my head
00:39:32.440i'm thinking to myself i could really use some help like this i could really use some help right
00:39:36.960now. And there was these guys, there was about three or four of them. They were walking out of
00:39:40.800their truck. They looked like they were probably in construction and they were walking out of their
00:39:44.500truck into home Depot. And I'm like, ah, I kind of want to ask, but I'm not going to bother these
00:39:48.840guys. Like they're, they're doing their stuff. And I, I reminded myself, I said, no, you're going
00:39:53.560to be a kind of person that asked for help when you need it. Because of what I just told you,
00:39:57.380it gives people opportunities to serve and it helps me. So I was like, Hey guys, um, I know
00:40:02.040this is a strange ask. Would you guys mind like helping me grab some of this and throw it in the
00:40:06.560truck and all of them are like yeah yeah no problem and it took us two minutes you know two
00:40:11.460or three minutes we threw it all in the truck shook their hands they're like hey you know glad
00:40:16.020to help glad we could help you guys and it was just a good simple easy interaction but how many
00:40:21.460times will we not go ask for help because we don't want to inconvenience people but i very rarely
00:40:28.320unless i'm in the middle of something like deep i very rarely have felt inconvenienced by helping
00:40:34.260other people i take it as a form of flattery it's a compliment that this person thinks i'm capable
00:40:39.280enough to assist them with whatever they need help with so that's the reframe you know give
00:40:44.160people the opportunity to serve and then just practice asking for help that's it just practice
00:40:49.540asking for help and offering it too i would say you know it's funny it's kind of like the the
00:40:55.200unspoken thing in that too that guys don't say on both ends is that on their end guarantee you
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00:41:03.680none of those guys afterwards are like oh man what a punk like what a what a puss he couldn't
0.58
00:41:08.440he couldn't load his own truck right like that there's no possible way that happened but one
00:41:15.340thing they probably didn't say that they felt was like man that was cool to be able to help that guy
00:41:20.380absolutely we all feel that way right like man that was awesome you know and it's something we
00:41:26.760don't speak out loud but that's how we feel so you know to to your point it's we're giving people
00:41:32.660that opportunity simultaneously yeah all right let's go to the next question this may be the
00:41:39.300last one here just for the sake of time this one comes from sean montgomery he says how can a man
00:41:46.060recover after he's been betrayed by somebody he truly trusted i mean it depends on how deep you
00:41:58.000go with that, right? There's layers to betrayal. Um, I mean, ultimately you have to, at some point,
00:42:08.280um, forgive that person ultimately, no matter what, uh, the only, your only hope
00:42:16.100is to get to a place of forgiveness. Um, it, it doesn't mean it has to happen right away,
00:42:24.920but i think that's your only hope for sanity and for growth um and to be able to overcome
00:42:33.980whatever the situation was um is to at some point to be able to forgive um yeah everybody's different
00:42:43.780in that process um but i think ultimately that's where you have to get um as far as trust
00:42:52.900um again depending on the depth of the betrayal i mean you may never trust them again
00:43:00.260it doesn't mean you can't forgive them um you know it doesn't mean you can't have love
00:43:07.320for them in some capacity um it doesn't even mean that you have to be able to like trust them again
00:43:16.680um but i think the key is forgiveness so i know i didn't answer the question like how can you trust
00:43:24.880them after you've been betrayed i mean honestly you might well i don't right and i don't think
00:43:29.960that's even really the question because he says how can a man recover like how can he recover
00:43:35.340so i don't even think he's saying because you know obviously when somebody breaks your trust that way
00:43:41.600you're going to have skepticism about other relationships personal professional romantic
00:43:47.080so like how do you recover yes everybody going to do this to me exactly and we do that why put
00:43:53.340in the work if they're just going to betray me anyways right and then we'll sabotage things
00:43:58.420that could otherwise be good because we're afraid of what even subconsciously what could happen
00:44:03.040you know i wrote a couple things down as you were talking about the forgiveness piece because i i
00:44:07.080think you're absolutely right the question is well how do you get to that point of forgiveness and i
00:44:12.240wrote a couple things down this is not an exhaustive list by any means but number one is giving the
00:44:19.160people at least honoring the right that individuals have to make their own decisions
00:44:25.260like everybody makes decisions and they have the right to make their own decisions even if it's
00:44:34.000the wrong decision. Even if it's something that will hurt somebody else or you, they still have
00:44:39.120the right to make those decisions. And that's pretty easy to understand if you're somewhat
00:44:44.600self-reflective because you know, you've made bad decisions that have hurt other people. And maybe
00:44:50.920they're not even bad decisions. I've made good decisions that have hurt other people, whether
00:44:55.460it's, you know, a romantic relationship or firing somebody that wasn't working out. You know, I'm
00:45:01.280going to make decisions every day based on what my goals are and desires are. And it's going to
00:45:05.860affect people negatively and positively. So I think understanding that, that they're a human
00:45:09.980being also understand this, but barring a few exceptions, I don't really think people are evil.
00:45:20.520I think they're, I think they're selfish. I think they can be lazy. I think they can be careless
00:45:29.120and flippant with other people's emotions i'm i can be all of those things myself but i wouldn't
00:45:35.200consider myself an evil person i would just consider myself a human who is self-interested
00:45:40.820and at times forget to align my values and virtues with my actions and so if you can realize that hey
00:45:48.320this person's probably not let's say a woman cheated on you is she an evil person no probably
00:45:53.580not she's probably confused and probably frustrated and she has her reasons and there's reasons for
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00:45:59.920that i'm not saying it's right i'm not even justifying the behavior i'm just saying she's
00:46:04.340probably not evil so there's some grace in that that's my third point is giving a person grace
00:46:10.180as much as you can and it takes time but giving them the grace that you would want when you mess
00:46:15.400up again that does not mean you have to subject yourself to failure hurt in fact you shouldn't
00:46:21.400do that. That would just be idiotic. But also giving yourself some grace because what a lot
00:46:26.280of guys will do when they're betrayed like this is they'll kick themselves in the pants because
00:46:32.100they're like, why didn't I see this? Why did I allow myself to get taken advantage of? Why was
00:46:37.180I afraid? Why was I cowardly? Why did I not do what needed to be done? Why didn't I establish
00:46:43.060boundaries? Why did not uphold those boundaries? Well, you didn't. And now you know better. And so
00:46:49.220the next time around when you get into a relationship even if it continues in the
00:46:52.840relationship that you have and this is one thing I've seen quite often where guys will go back to
00:46:59.520a spouse that's cheated on them that's not up that's not a decision for me to make that's their
00:47:05.800decision to make I don't know if I could do that I've never been in that situation
00:47:10.060and in that situation I don't know how I would respond I guess it would depend on the circumstances
00:47:16.000but if a man is going to make those decisions then i think what he needs to do in order to start
00:47:22.640rebuilding the trust in that person and also the trust in himself have some self-respect
00:47:30.100and what does that look like it looks like boundaries and rules in place so sean if you
00:47:37.340and i are business partners and you do something that is a little shady or you know whatever and
00:47:43.820i decide for whatever reason like hey you know what i think i still want to stay in business with
00:47:47.700this guy and i might not but if i do decide that then i have to communicate effectively with you
00:47:53.720the rules about how we are going to operate and work and if you cross that set that line
00:47:58.680we're done same thing with a spouse who's been unfaithful if you decide that you're going to
00:48:05.900stay with them you can't hold it over their head anymore right you made the decision to stay not
00:48:11.520them so that means you shouldn't hold that over their head anymore but you should have rules in
00:48:17.020place that you communicate clearly and then that person to go back to the first point i made
00:48:21.760has the right to decide if they're willing to abide by those rules and boundaries and if they're
00:48:27.660not we part ways if they are then i'm going to expect that they do and there's consequences if
00:48:32.160they don't you know it's it's the key word that stood out to me that you said is um the selfish
00:48:41.240part, right? Because this is, I mean, I've watched this happen with so many people from a relationship
00:48:47.680standpoint. Um, and in business it's happened to me countless times and, you know, I'm, I'm closing
00:48:53.780in on 30 years of being in my business and, um, and we've been betrayed a bunch of times, you know,
00:49:00.140and, and, uh, you know, when that happens, it hurts, you know, and, and, um, you know,
00:49:06.540financially it's emotionally more than anything for me um because you care about people you pour
00:49:14.240into people you help build them up you know in a business like ours you're building people up to
00:49:19.000be independent um and then they go and they break their contracts you know that that they have with
00:49:24.500you and then they find loopholes and whatever else to go around you know and and oh you can't
00:49:30.620hold up this non-compete and whatever and i'm like to me it's like i don't care whether you
00:49:35.760could hold it up in court or not like you'd signed that that's what you were going to do
00:49:40.280you know and and but but again in business you find out like you know a lot of things can be
00:49:47.980overcome in court right and so it's like in and for me though the way i still operate in my
00:49:55.160business is we still sign the contracts and i expect you to have to hold it and i still love
00:50:00.960you you know in the process of building you up and then if you break that down the road
00:50:05.640that's on you and yeah financially i might take a step back or whatever else but ultimately if i
00:50:11.840if i if i get jaded and i start treating the people that are still with me differently now
00:50:20.460because you screwed me over i'm not going to last long term right you know because they're
00:50:26.640going to feel differently. If I have an angle of always trying to just keep you with me,
00:50:32.800instead of really pouring into you to make you better than me, it's my business is going to
00:50:39.780feel different. My growth is going to be held back. And so is yours, you know? So I'm taking
00:50:46.140the risk of you, you know, maybe screwing me over down the road, but that doesn't stop me from
00:50:51.620giving my best to you. Right. And so in that, that's where the forgiveness piece comes into
00:50:57.800play because the people that did it to me, it, it, every time I talk about like, they get brought up
00:51:04.560a lot, you know, now like, Oh, this guy, remember when he did this and whatever. And I used to get
00:51:10.720sucked into talking about, yeah, how they screwed me over. They broke their contracts. They shouldn't
00:51:15.220have the you know to you know what yeah they did and that was at the time selfish and if they would
00:51:21.780have stayed here everybody would have been better off and they could have still done their thing
00:51:26.320but they've gone and like done great thing the ironic thing is like none of those people are
00:51:32.740still like necessarily only involved in our type of business they've moved on to other things
00:51:37.920and that was ultimately their goal this was like a stepping stone to that and so I've accepted it
00:51:43.920like that and and I actually give them kudos now like that's awesome they did what they always
00:51:50.500planned on doing this was a stepping stone to that and yeah they didn't do it the way I wanted
00:51:55.800along the way but I appreciate they still achieved what they wanted to and I even if I could be a
00:52:01.420small piece of that like I helped build them to that point I'll take it I don't gain from it
00:52:08.460financially or anything else but i think you also said an important thing they're not evil
00:52:15.100ultimately they're doing good things in the world and if i had any little piece of helping them get
00:52:21.620there i'll take it you know because they're still out there doing things they're impacting people
00:52:27.160they're making a difference and and lives are becoming better because of it and just because i
00:52:32.400don't gain anything financially from it it's i'll take what i can get you know and that's the time
00:52:38.780that we did have together it took a long time to get to that forgiveness piece and then looking at
00:52:44.640the human element looking at the selfish part of it you know back then but then back to the
00:52:50.360they're not evil and the goodness that came from it you know and sometimes they say time heals all
00:52:55.700wounds right so i think that's the key is if you come from the right space forgiveness what can i
00:53:03.240control who can how can i show up to be my best with the people that are still around me that
00:53:10.880depend on me to be strong that you know need to hear the correct principles you know coming from
00:53:19.120me um and and being carried out by me um and and and focus on that you know and then over time
00:53:30.740if you continue on that path like good should still come from it you know of course it will
00:53:39.040unless that person's evil and if they go down an evil path like you could have never controlled
00:53:44.980that anyways right yeah it was doomed it was doomed anyway you know and with the with the idea
00:53:49.840the concept of time healing all wounds it it does heal all wounds if if you treat the wound properly
00:53:57.020and i think that's something a lot of people miss is they're like well just i'll eventually get over
00:54:02.060it will you or is it now festering under the surface getting infected and creating all problem
00:54:07.940all sorts of problems that you're not even aware of and so one little thing happens and that wound
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00:54:12.820opens up again and it's infected and pussy and gross and it creates new problems that weren't
0.83
00:54:17.980there to begin with so what does it mean to actually heal a wound to treat it right to
0.89
00:54:22.980actually figure out what's going on to keep it clean to uh change your bandages to you know
00:54:29.520taking care of it not not exposing it too soon to to new hurt or you know new pain or or um
00:54:36.680yeah it's just it's you got to be vigilant about it and i think the same is true when it comes to
00:54:41.360betrayal is like I it's hard it's really so I'm going back to something I say don't say it's hard
00:54:48.160but this one I actually do think is pretty difficult when you feel betrayed to actually
00:54:52.240offer some grace to somebody say hey you know what like I still want the best for them there's
00:54:57.760people in my life who I feel like I got the short end of the stick on and still I want the bet like
00:55:03.640I want them to find happiness I want them to recover I want them to find new ways of living
00:55:09.660their life. I want them to be fulfilled. It just wasn't with me and it won't be with me,
00:55:14.760but I still want that for them. Well, brother, I appreciate you, man. We had some good questions
00:55:19.840today. We got a lot more. I think we only got through four or five, but hopefully that gave
00:55:23.540some depth to some of the questions that got brought up. Uh, guys, if you want more information
00:55:28.580about what we're doing, like for example, you know, we talked about your son, not talking with
00:55:33.060you. We talked about, um, why we avoid doing difficult things or things that we know that
00:55:38.560need to be done. We talked about struggling with feeling weak if you ask for help. And then we
00:55:43.700talked about recovering from somebody who's breached some level of trust with you. These
00:55:50.020are conversations that we have every day inside the Iron Council. And it's so beneficial to have
00:55:55.780the thousand plus guys that are in the Iron Council, but it's also beneficial to have the
00:56:00.640five to eight to 10 guys that you're going to be working very, very closely with. Because when you
00:56:05.380have these things come up, you can talk with someone who has new ideas, new perspectives,
00:56:10.400new ways of looking at things that you hadn't seen before. So check it out. If you go to
00:56:15.400orderofman.com slash iron council, you can get enrolled with us and we'll get you hooked up with
00:56:20.920a coach that's going to work with you for the first several weeks and then get you on board
00:56:24.940into a battle plans or a battle team, excuse me. So check that out again, orderofman.com slash
00:56:29.520iron council. Sean, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for stepping in for Kip today. Thanks for your
00:56:33.760words of wisdom and for your friendship you know we've been friends for a long time and it means a
00:56:38.100lot that you believe in what we're doing and support what we're doing but also the conversations
00:56:42.240and the talks that we've had and i know you'll always be there um if i need something as long
00:56:46.800as i don't trust otherwise you're out all good no grace whatsoever all right guys uh hope you
00:56:56.760enjoyed it we'll be back on friday until then go out there take action and become the man you
00:57:00.940thank you for listening to the order of man podcast you're ready to take charge of your
00:57:06.440life and be more of the man you were meant to be we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com