Order of Man - Struggling with Feeling Weak, Recover From Betrayal, and Avoiding the Obvious ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 and if anything getting help that you need brotherhood therapy getting engaged in hobbies

00:00:06.360 and activities ditching the stuff that's not serving you like that past question

00:00:09.960 that's not strength that's actually the thing that's going to make you strong it's courageous

00:00:14.500 it's not strength in and of itself it's courage which leads to strength

00:00:19.040 sean what's up man uh you're filling in for kip today it's been gosh months i think since uh

00:00:25.800 since you've been on the show but i'm glad to have you here yep but been listening and uh

00:00:30.420 good it's good good to be here good i see you represent the order of man rash guard putting

00:00:34.880 out to work this morning at uh the jits it sounds like i can't literally walk straight in here so

00:00:40.900 sorry i'm still a little he's still a little worked up a little little bit little flush

00:00:47.520 probably yeah oh my gosh it's actually been a while since i've trained i need to i'm actually

00:00:53.680 going to just, I'm going to start something here in my local community. Cause if I want to go train

00:00:57.980 jujitsu, it's about a 30 to 35 minute drive, which doesn't, it's not, that's not a long drive, but

00:01:04.260 it's with as busy as I am, it's just continues to be an excuse not to go. And so I'm actually

00:01:11.240 going to head down to the community center this week. I know they've got mats and things like

00:01:14.580 that. And they're doing like karate classes for kids and yoga lessons for moms on them,

00:01:18.960 which is cool nothing against that but i'm like let's put those maps to use for men specifically

00:01:24.400 and i figured i'd do you know tuesday and thursday morning at 5 a.m and just go roll and get after it

00:01:29.560 so should be fun see how it goes yeah yeah man well i'd like to jump into some questions today

00:01:35.720 we got some good ones and i was kind of filtering through these i'm actually taking kip spot with a

00:01:40.000 question asking but i figure you and i can riff on these let's start with this is one i actually

00:01:45.740 hear quite a bit, some, some variation of this, but it's from Michael Donovan. And he says,

00:01:51.580 my teenage son barely even talks to me anymore, unless he needs something from me.

00:01:58.680 How do I reconnect before it's too late? What would you say to that? Because you've got,

00:02:04.260 you've got two boys, you know, they're teenagers. I've got three boys and a girl. I have two

00:02:09.200 teenage sons. So both of us can talk on this with, with some clarity, I think.

00:02:14.120 yeah i wish i knew which realm of teenager right because there's a big difference between your

00:02:20.500 13 year old not talking to you and your 19 year old not talking to you um yeah you know so there's

00:02:26.840 a big range um but yeah and then also the the what realm of not talking to you because my teenage

00:02:34.100 like my oldest son he just doesn't like to talk that's his personality he'd rather avoid a

00:02:42.380 conversation um right and then engage in a long conversation and the only time i get him as if

00:02:50.720 like we're on a long road trip and uh not that i trap him that's probably like you know i was

00:02:57.880 just talking about that last week actually about trapping my son and i told people don't do that

00:03:02.820 so that's funny you brought that up so it's not that but it's like we literally have to be driving

00:03:08.400 for an hour before he really starts engaging and i have to you know ask and ask and ask and

00:03:16.620 he's the king of short answers his favorite is i don't know right and so like that's a i think

00:03:22.820 that's a normal depending on the personality type if that's what he's talking about that's

00:03:27.560 just some personalities are like that more than others and so that's difficult that is i would say

00:03:33.960 be persistent um be engaging ask and then and then ask also like don't get frustrated like come on

00:03:44.760 i'm trying to have a conversation i've made that mistake too like dude i'm trying to talk to you

00:03:48.960 and there's a serious conversation i'm trying to have that's the worst thing with my son you could

00:03:53.900 do because now he's like well i don't want to talk to you anyways you know it becomes a thing

00:03:59.580 where if i'm like if i start kind of having fun with it i'm like i'm like i know you're probably

00:04:04.500 tired you only got 12 hours of sleep last night and you don't want to you know have to spend the

00:04:10.420 energy to talk and i'll just start kind of playing with him that still might take me 10 minutes of

00:04:15.600 messing around and poking him a little and whatever and turning it into a game um yeah and

00:04:21.920 then if i can get him to smirk you know then we can like engage in a conversation but it takes time

00:04:27.460 and it takes like for me ultra patience right you know but that's again some personalities are

00:04:34.840 are worse so if that's what he's talking about it's the patience the perseverance um trying

00:04:40.840 different ways to engage and and finding out what works if it's just flat out like he's upset with

00:04:48.240 you um you know then it's maybe you need to like almost schedule a conversation of be like hey i

00:04:56.220 I really like, look, I don't want our relationship to go down a path where we don't communicate

00:05:05.320 because I love you and I care about you.

00:05:07.420 And I, in that pursuit of loving you and caring about you and wanting to help you in any way

00:05:14.040 I can to help you be happier, I want us to be able to talk about things and I want you

00:05:20.060 to be comfortable with that.

00:05:22.200 And quite frankly, I want to be comfortable with it.

00:05:24.540 I don't want it to be an awkward thing every time I'm trying to help you be

00:05:28.740 happy. So how can we do that? You know, can we set a time?

00:05:33.400 Can we go fishing and talk? Can we go, you know,

00:05:38.180 to dinner? Can it like just ask where he might feel comfortable and having a

00:05:45.860 conversation, but coming from a place where he understands it's because I care

00:05:51.040 about him. I love him. I want to engage with him and try and help him where I can, um, and see

00:05:59.120 where it goes from there, you know? And if he's like, I think, no, I hate you, you know, then

00:06:04.300 that's, that could be a good way to open the conversation. Then ask why, you know, what did

00:06:09.420 I do? Where did I screw up? Where did I take some ownership, right? Be willing to do that. Um, if,

00:06:14.980 if you're going to engage like that and, you know, it's, I've been through that with him before

00:06:20.560 too um you know and my middle kid too because i approached him i tried to approach him like my

00:06:26.360 older son and messed up a little bit and got him mad and had to own it and say sorry and which for

00:06:33.620 my personality is super hard because i don't want to say sorry and yeah i don't know i'm always a

00:06:40.200 little careful of of saying like things that are hard that aren't and i and i tell these this to

00:06:45.360 the guys all the time like i'm not saying it couldn't be a struggle for people or dismissing

00:06:49.120 what you're saying but also i think we need to be careful of is it hard no we're just choosing

00:06:55.020 not to do it right maybe it's the ego getting in the way or you know maybe well that's what it is

00:07:00.620 it's the ego getting in the way and that's 100 what it is yeah and i think we play this game of

00:07:06.720 like oh it's hard it's like yeah i'm not gonna buy i don't buy that one like it's not hard so

00:07:12.080 it's naturally it's naturally hard right it's like if you yeah i think like i said a struggle

00:07:16.780 or a challenge for sure naturally or your personality or how you even grew up is a factor

00:07:21.520 as well it's like if you're an alcoholic or if you're if you are your tendency is to

00:07:28.940 be addictive right like some people have an addictive personality i have that i have a lot

00:07:33.500 of addicts in my family on one side of my family and so if you have that tendency it's harder for

00:07:41.300 you to be at a party and everybody's drinking for you to not at least be holding you know for me

00:07:47.400 when I stopped drinking I had to hold a soda in my hand and then soda turned into water because I

00:07:52.580 was starting to get a little chubby right like pounding soda because that was my habit right so

00:07:58.020 it was like that was my tendency was to grab for a bottle you know beer like and then I would just

00:08:03.420 drinking whatever when i was when i was drinking all the time and um so in that sense some things

00:08:12.280 are harder for some people than others that's what i mean by hard so in that you have to be

00:08:17.740 be you have to be aware enough and you're right it's not hard when you make the decision

00:08:22.960 right because i have that tendency but i haven't drank in 25 or 26 years or something like that

00:08:29.640 because i'm aware of it and i don't even allow myself to do it by making the choice of not yeah

00:08:37.220 it not being hard if that makes sense yeah and i you know and to go back to the to this question

00:08:43.380 what what is the ultimate outcome that you want well you want to be connected with your son

00:08:49.460 well if that's the case then in many cases most of us i would say as fathers need to learn to

00:08:55.520 apologize we just need to learn to get over the ego because that's what's going to draw you close

00:08:59.620 to your kid but there was an interesting uh concept that i was introduced to just the other

00:09:05.260 day actually i read this or heard this from patrick david bett and he said there's three phases that

00:09:10.120 a young man goes through with how he views and perceives his father so the first is idol idolize 0.94

00:09:17.660 so when your kid's young he's six he's seven he's eight years old man he looks at you like a freaking

00:09:23.940 hero you can do no wrong everything you touch turns to gold he wants to be like you he wants

00:09:29.760 to do the same things as you he wants to talk with you so that's that idolized phase and then

00:09:35.700 he moves into demonized phase and this this demonized phase hits about i would say late 12

00:09:42.420 early 13 where the hormones start kicking in the testosterone production starts to rev up

00:09:48.440 and what happens with a young man is then he's trying to rebel he's trying to gain some

00:09:55.600 independence he's trying to establish some individual sovereignty he's becoming more

00:10:01.000 physical he's learning to solve problems using higher elevated levels of testosterone so he 0.85

00:10:09.660 starts to look at his dad with a little chink in the armor like oh dad doesn't know dad does this 0.99

00:10:15.400 I see where he messes up he should do this better I could do better I could be this I could be that 1.00

00:10:20.360 if it weren't for dad and then what ends up happening is about I would say I would say

00:10:27.560 probably generally about 17-ish I would say 17-18 he gets through that demonization phase

00:10:35.780 as long as a man's handled it correctly he gets through that demonization phase and then he starts

00:10:40.440 moving into uh humanizing his father and now as hey you know what dad wasn't the greatest but he

00:10:47.280 did these things i see where he messed up but i know he always loved me he wasn't always the most

00:10:52.960 patient but he was always at my games and that's where that humanized element comes in and i love

00:10:58.060 that framework because what it does especially in this case with this question is it lets you know

00:11:04.060 that more than likely unless there's some underlying factor like you talked about sean

00:11:08.460 that this is just normal this is just a normal process and so i've got a 15 year old but when

00:11:15.640 he was 13 and 14 we really had a hard time connecting and now we we get along great

00:11:22.460 but part of the reason is is because i ask him better questions i love the idea of what you said

00:11:28.200 scheduling something that needs to be had a conversation that needs to be had and then also

00:11:32.380 just getting into their world you know you know you know my my kids you know breck and any you

00:11:37.220 know all of them but brecken is like me you know we'll go hunt we like sports i mean everything

00:11:43.740 that i like he likes it's so easy eli's different you know still athletic like sports but he's more

00:11:49.960 into fashion he he likes to skateboard he likes video games he likes shoes he's a shoe guy right

00:11:56.460 shoes yeah he loves his sneakers things that i don't necessarily really care all that much about

00:12:01.980 but when you are trying to connect with your son get into their world it's not about the shoes or

00:12:08.860 the video game or the car I mean he'll pull up a thing on a car and he'll tell me all the stats

00:12:13.420 and my eyes kind of glaze over because in my mind I'm like I don't care about this but I care about

00:12:19.680 him and if he cares about it then I care about it and so I ask good questions and a good question

00:12:25.680 is not hey how you doing today or how are you those are closed-end questions i'm doing good

00:12:33.000 i'm good like the more you can get better advanced question asking the better you're

00:12:40.140 going to be able to connect not just with your kid but with other people so start asking those

00:12:44.100 open-ended questions so a question might be hey what was the best part of your day today

00:12:48.040 or hey you just got back from football practice what was what's the one play you learned better

00:12:53.400 or who who are you hanging out with these days and why do you guys get along so well

00:12:59.540 what what girl do you have an interest in what what are you attracted to in her

00:13:04.540 so now in a way he's obligated to answer with more than just yes no i don't know maybe yeah

00:13:12.180 whatever but that's been helpful too is just improving the quality of my questions i heard

00:13:17.060 a great quote the quality of your life will be determined by the quality of questions that you

00:13:21.820 ask and i believe that to be wholeheartedly true all right let's see what else do we got

00:13:28.020 we got a lot of questions today so i'm just trying to figure out um

00:13:31.420 here's one this one comes from connor sullivan he says i know exactly what i need to do in life

00:13:38.980 and then he gives us a list he says i need to lose 30 pounds i need to stop drinking i need

00:13:45.220 to wake up earlier and stop wasting time scrolling and online he says why do men still avoid doing

00:13:54.200 what they know needs to be done that's their habit it's uh i mean it's as simple as that

00:14:04.500 just as simple as knowing um that's what you've built your habits to do um with or without you

00:14:14.080 thinking about them and so you have to change that habit i mean obviously i know you're a big

00:14:19.340 fan of atomic habits um and then there's another book called the power of habit which is basically

00:14:24.360 the same structure just a couple things you know said a little differently he's coming on the

00:14:31.380 podcast actually awesome yeah i mean those those are two of my favorite books those are i have i

00:14:37.500 get asked about this almost on a weekly basis you know in my business from guys asking me oh what do

00:14:42.880 i know what i need to do i just don't do it um and it's so like a couple of my favorites are first

00:14:50.000 start with um like finding where you're wasting the most time you know you you said it okay so

00:14:58.220 you're scrolling so why are you still allowing yourself to have those apps on your phone

00:15:03.520 just rip instagram and facebook off your phone or twitter whatever it is take it off you know like

00:15:10.700 it's that simple you know so what's more important you finding useless information off the internet

00:15:18.240 all day long or losing your 30 pounds and then you get rid of this that hour two or three or

00:15:26.180 whatever you waste scrolling and replace that with your trip to the gym or to jiu-jitsu or to

00:15:31.520 yoga even whatever you said like it's funny you said yoga but go to one of those classes and have 0.99

00:15:36.840 it kick your ass you know and like you'll be you'll be dripping sweat you know you'll you'll 0.98

00:15:42.240 it's it's great whatever it is it doesn't it could sound ridiculous it could sound too easy 0.99

00:15:48.180 um one of the best podcasts i've ever listened to in my life um addresses this and that's

00:15:55.760 jelly roll on rogan did you listen to that no i haven't dude it's so freaking good because the

00:16:03.780 guy's 500 pounds and now he's down to like two something you know he's lost like two whole people

00:16:10.760 basically and um and he just started with walking like he just had to walk he couldn't even get up

00:16:20.220 and like go for a walk without being gassed he couldn't walk to the end of his driveway

00:16:24.740 so he started with that you know like walk to the end of the driveway and back and be gassed and

00:16:29.740 then walk like you know uh five houses down and back and then walk 10 houses down and back and

00:16:37.400 then like just build up that habit of walking where he could walk around the block without

00:16:42.800 getting gassed you know and i'm like i'm not saying it anywhere near the way he did and it's

00:16:47.980 it's powerful because you're hearing firsthand somebody that didn't take any of those excuses

00:16:55.020 of i know what i need to do it's just it's like you were talking about before but it's hard

00:16:59.700 right um well another thing you could do like even with this because i i'm a firm believer in

00:17:05.380 that small those small little steps is you know what maybe don't delete your apps right away

00:17:10.320 maybe just go on a walk while you're scrolling and and so now you know you walk let's say two

00:17:16.780 or three miles that's good that's gonna take you you know 40 minutes maybe let's say it's like all

00:17:22.540 right 40 minutes that's your that's your scrolling time you got 40 minutes you can you can scroll

00:17:27.400 while you walk i wouldn't advise that long term but if that's what gets you moving then do it

00:17:31.900 yeah just look up when you cross the street i mean that means you're getting yeah right exactly

00:17:35.680 yeah or run into a you know do a face plant into a telephone call or something

00:17:39.800 oh man but you know what's interesting about everybody is i was just gonna say what's

00:17:48.300 interesting about this that i found is that you know all of us have probably driven on a muddy 0.99

00:17:53.340 dirty dirt back road somewhere right and you know right after a storm some asshole goes up there 0.96

00:18:00.600 and he just plows through the dirt and makes these you know muddy tracks and then what happens is 0.98

00:18:06.120 you're driving it's literally like trying to pull the tires into the track yeah and if it's slick

00:18:12.220 and muddy it's actually pretty hard to pop yourself up out of those those ruts and sometimes

00:18:16.900 it requires you to give it some gas and jerk the wheel and pop yourself up out of there. And then

00:18:23.600 you've got to be vigilant about staying out of those tracks. And the same thing is true about

00:18:27.120 habits. You know, sometimes it's got to take a big change. Like, Hey, you know what? I am going

00:18:32.420 to go do jujitsu. I am going to go do that crazy thing I've always wanted to do. I am going to

00:18:37.360 stop cold Turkey on drinking or smoking or whatever it might be. And it takes, it takes a 0.75

00:18:44.160 violent disruptive action in some ways to really get yourself out of that situation

00:18:49.480 you it's that's why i like those books and i like that as a start like if he hasn't read

00:18:56.540 those just start with one of them even if you're listening to it right you listen to the audible

00:19:01.120 and pay attention while you're driving around you know and you have the time to do it if you're

00:19:06.060 driving anywhere um to at least listen but you know I think of that habit it still serves me

00:19:15.080 today like um when I when it was first introduced to me is before I read the book but it was a guy

00:19:21.380 told me he said hey catch yourself wasting time and then replace it with the things that you know

00:19:27.100 are useful to you and the example he used was he's like I used to do it I used to be obsessed

00:19:32.060 with college football. So every Saturday I'd find myself spending eight to 10 hours in front of the

00:19:37.780 TV, watching football games, you know, and not a single one of those. And this was in my business

00:19:43.460 that he was talking about this, where he's like, you know, and then I, I added up how many phone

00:19:48.800 calls I could have made in that time, you know, to book appointments. And that would make me money

00:19:54.200 directly make me money. Um, and he's like, yeah, it was a Saturday. He's like, but what would I

00:20:00.320 rather you know waste time watching something that was never gonna pay me or do anything to

00:20:06.000 serve my family you know and basically just root for somebody else to win their life or you know

00:20:13.560 replace the time with something that directly serves me he's like so I would start catching

00:20:17.640 myself I'd be like one or two football games in and be like oh instead of this I'm gonna make

00:20:24.440 phone calls he's like and I didn't do the fill the whole eight to ten hours with phone calls he's

00:20:28.620 like, but it started with 30 minutes of phone calls. And all of a sudden that yielded a few

00:20:33.580 more appointments that week. And all of a sudden I started making an extra thousand bucks a month,

00:20:38.520 2000 a month. And then I'm like, man, what if I did two hours? What if I did three hours? And

00:20:43.860 you know, the two or 3000 a month extra turned into 10 grand a month extra. Um, just from

00:20:50.340 replacing that one little habit where I was wasting time and turning it into useful time

00:20:55.480 towards the pursuit i was taking and um and then that became my habit and then so like i took that

00:21:02.160 started doing the same thing you know replacing all the things this is before social media or

00:21:07.580 you know even cell phones like no text messages no anything so back then it was tv right and

00:21:14.040 turning off the tv and not watching it replacing it with with useful activities and and physically

00:21:20.900 everything to where literally that's still my habit today, you know, where I caught myself on

00:21:27.020 Saturday, just kind of being lazy. I knew there was this project I've been putting off, um, clearing

00:21:32.640 the Creek at my house. Um, that was, that was blocked, um, in causing flooding. And I had a

00:21:39.800 window of two hours where something happened. And I was, I was like, okay, I could chill and do

00:21:45.120 nothing. Or I could finally just attack that thing. And I went and attacked it, you know,

00:21:49.780 got it done and it's finished but that's without the habit I would have just wasted that two hours

00:21:57.220 right so it's like catching myself knowing what and then simultaneously with that I know

00:22:03.280 this has gotten long but this is an important piece is knowing what you want like and it's

00:22:11.440 got to be more important than all the rest of it all of the comfort and when you know what you want

00:22:19.220 bad enough you're going to have the things to replace that wasted time with without it without

00:22:26.880 knowing what you want badly enough and it not being important enough um you're not going to

00:22:33.680 know what to fill the time with and it's going to turn into more wasted time because that's your

00:22:39.080 habit your habit is to do something no matter what right and so knowing what you want and then what

00:22:45.240 the actions are. That's why I like the battle plan so much, right? It's like knowing what the

00:22:50.920 actions are that are going to get you to that goal. Um, and then filling your wasted time with

00:22:59.040 those things. Well, and I think that's also why it's so important to plan out your day the night

00:23:03.960 before, because if you wake up this tomorrow morning, let's say without a plan, like you don't

00:23:10.440 know what workout you're going to do. You don't know what you need to get done at work. You don't

00:23:13.480 know what activities your kids have you don't know what your wife's got going on and what you 0.85

00:23:17.700 need to plan around i mean you're just winging it flying by the seat of your pants and of course

00:23:21.980 you're going to be wasting time on your phone or doom scrolling or doing whatever you do but what's

00:23:27.100 interesting about habits and it talks about this in atomic habits and the power of habit

00:23:31.220 is that it's just chemicals that's all this is and i think if we spend more time thinking about

00:23:39.400 how this process of engaging new habits works, it's really not that complex. I mean, yes,

00:23:46.700 the process is the way our body develops chemicals and hormones and everything else, but

00:23:51.040 there's, we've all heard of dopamine as, as a hormone and it's what they would call a

00:23:56.660 neurotransmitter. So anytime a human being engages in an activity that rewards them in some way,

00:24:04.780 Even if the reward is getting high, for example, or getting drunk, things that we would overwhelmingly say is not a good reward, our body still feels good about it.

00:24:16.100 And then the dopamine hits, and we are so in tune and addicted to the dopamine that we automatically assume it was the behavior that was right.

00:24:25.920 And so the dopamine reinforces the behavior, and man, do we want that dopamine.

00:24:30.400 so you can actually quite literally reprogram your brain to engage in new habits and to release

00:24:40.420 dopamine dopamine based on new behaviors and i think this goes to what you're saying sean about

00:24:46.180 hey i want to know what i want right so i'm going to lose 30 pounds well why is that important to

00:24:50.780 you oh i want to have confidence why is that important to you i want to feel good about who

00:24:54.420 i am i want to show up for my family i want to show up for my wife and so you get down as deep

00:24:58.540 as you can. And then you go work out and you get a sweat and you get home and you go to get on the

00:25:04.440 scale tomorrow and you're down half a pound dopamine release. And then you have to make

00:25:09.420 that connection to the workout is why I lost half a pound. Or the same thing is true with

00:25:15.260 this guy wants to lose 30 pounds. You know, I've got a bag of M&Ms sitting on my counter right now.

00:25:21.920 10 years ago, eight years ago, maybe even five years ago, I had to down those things. And now

00:25:26.220 I'm like, I don't, they don't even sound good to me. It doesn't even sound good because I spent so

00:25:32.400 much time reprogramming that, that those, those M&Ms lead to results that I, that are less than

00:25:40.300 favorable for me. And 300 calories a day extra leads to, you know, dozens of pounds over the

00:25:49.880 year which is crazy to think about yeah um but you have to rewire rewire your brain and i think

00:25:57.740 that's why the power of habit and atomic habits is so powerful because it'll help you do that

00:26:02.000 all right let's go to um i saw this one where is it okay so this one's from eric lawson he says

00:26:09.600 it's kind of interesting because he says something but he's actually doing it as he's saying it he

00:26:14.180 says I don't know how to admit that I'm struggling without feeling weak and I think that's a big

00:26:21.880 thing for a lot of guys but what's interesting about this is imagine any other scenario of life

00:26:30.340 imagine you want to get good at something like you want to get good at jujitsu or you want to

00:26:38.180 get good at playing the piano or the guitar or learning how to draw or learning how to take

00:26:44.940 pictures. It's interesting because we usually don't beat ourselves up too bad. A little of that

00:26:50.040 self-doubt will come in, but we don't say it's weak not to know how to do it. We just engage

00:26:57.640 in the behavior of doing it so that we can become strong. We have a healthy perspective for the most

00:27:05.280 part with engaging in new behaviors that we know are going to serve us because we know it'll make

00:27:10.600 us better. So it's always fascinating to me when we start to get into our minds and get upset about

00:27:16.760 like not having it all figured out. You know, maybe you're 40 years old and you thought you'd

00:27:23.480 be further down the track. Does that mean you're weak? No, it just means you don't have it figured

00:27:27.480 out. It's just a data set that now you can do something new with. And I wish more guys would

00:27:33.300 just be okay with where they are i often tell people it's it's there there's no there's no

00:27:41.780 virtue in victimhood there's only virtue in overcoming it and i'm not saying that being

00:27:49.060 a victim is necessarily bad because people legitimately may have been victimized that

00:27:54.040 happens but it's not virtuous to be victimized or to play the victim game or to wallow or to

00:28:00.040 feel sorry for yourself that's not virtuous even though popular culture would tell you it is right

00:28:05.620 we play these like victim hierarchy games like however many victim points you can get then you're

00:28:11.040 the winner and you're rewarded for that but that doesn't work long term and for you if you're

00:28:16.700 feeling weak stop it do what you need to do whatever you need to do in order to get yourself

00:28:24.440 out of that victimization that you might be slipping into and so that means i'm gonna have

00:28:29.780 really close friends. You know, I had a conversation just the other day, a couple actually, over the

00:28:34.920 past several weeks, with two men that are really close to me. One is Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge

00:28:40.700 and another is Matt Boudreau. And we made a decision months and months ago to just get together

00:28:48.240 over a phone call, like a Zoom call, once a month. And we've been doing that pretty consistently for

00:28:54.640 the past seven or eight months or so. And I noticed the last time that we talked, so last,

00:29:01.560 maybe it was two months ago, that we were just skimming the surface of what we could potentially

00:29:06.680 talk about. We were all talking about how good the business is and life's good and the kids are good

00:29:12.000 and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, you know what? This is kind of bullshit. I don't need to 1.00

00:29:17.300 have a meeting for the sake of meetings. I've got other things I could be doing. I don't need to

00:29:21.880 tell everybody my life is good i could actually be doing something so i share oh no i can't stand

00:29:30.080 being in those kind of conversations it's horror it's such a waste of time everybody's like yeah

00:29:34.180 i'm good the kids are good life's good i'm like bullshit and so i but i was engaged in it i was

00:29:39.540 doing it myself and so i told these guys a couple of things that were were challenging for me to

00:29:45.040 admit you know weren't comfortable for me to admit but i thought you know this is something i want out

00:29:50.200 of this relationship. I want to actually be able to have real conversations. I want to be able to

00:29:55.300 tell these guys things that I would not probably tell anybody else. Insecurities, inadequacies,

00:30:01.920 temptations, all of those things. And if I want that, then it's on me to do something about it.

00:30:09.680 It's not anybody else's responsibility to ensure I'm getting what I need. That's my responsibility.

00:30:15.400 so I opened up and I shared some things with these guys and man it was so liberating for me

00:30:20.580 a lot more accountability built in and then over the past several weeks they've been opening up

00:30:25.480 about things that they're dealing with that I didn't I had no idea and I've known these guys

00:30:30.700 for 10 years and I had no idea of the suffering that they're experiencing but it takes somebody

00:30:37.600 to go first and if anything getting help that you need brotherhood therapy getting engaged in

00:30:45.060 hobbies and activities ditching the stuff that's not serving you like that past question that's

00:30:50.040 not strength that's actually the thing that's going to make you strong it's courageous it's

00:30:53.860 not strength in and of itself it's courage which leads to strength so that's my take

00:30:59.600 as you when you were talking i was i wrote down a couple things um that and i'm trying to find a 0.95

00:31:10.360 way to say it without sounding like an asshole, but I don't think I can. I like, I don't think 0.51

00:31:15.760 you can either. I know you well enough. You just always sound like an asshole. So you guys just

00:31:19.400 take it with a grain of salt. He's got a good heart, but you know, it fails on delivery at times.

00:31:25.900 That I'm not worried about either, but it, it, like I do pass judgment on guys constantly,

00:31:34.420 but on the guys that do the two things you talked about it like it drives me crazy when

00:31:42.760 people play the victim i can't stand i think like the weakest men are like don't take ownership

00:31:50.040 right um like that one drives me crazy but i think that's a normal i think most strong men

00:31:55.880 and especially high achievers feel that way but i think the one that gets missed and maybe

00:32:02.280 but my perspective is it really drives me nuts that quote-unquote tough guys that don't ask for

00:32:09.700 help that one I think is like one of the weakest qualities that a you know quote-unquote strong man

00:32:17.320 can have is to not be and I know like I don't like the word vulnerable either I know you don't

00:32:24.200 really like that word but the vulnerable like being vulnerable enough to at least admit that

00:32:30.580 you don't know it all you don't have it all you don't that you do need help that you need a support

00:32:37.020 system that you you know you're not the the be all and end all um is hard for men to do 0.90

00:32:48.460 much harder than women women are the opposite they they build support groups around themselves 0.95

00:32:55.600 constantly. Right. Um, so it's like, that's something we, I think can learn the most from 1.00

00:33:02.720 women is to be willing to ask questions that you, especially if you think you're going to sound 0.95

00:33:11.780 stupid or if you're think you're going to sound weak, if you, I think it's weak to not ask the 1.00

00:33:18.820 question. I know it. It's a, you mentioned you did because you're afraid and you're not addressing 1.00

00:33:24.340 it that makes it weakness that's it's cowardly is what it is totally cowardly that's why I think

00:33:29.600 it kind of disgusts me right because I'm like dude how weak are you that's that's like that's 0.98

00:33:36.420 a punk move you know on yourself like that's you're being a puss right like um at least be 0.93

00:33:43.800 man enough to to get help right to to get support to overcome that thing you know instead of it 0.62

00:33:53.080 being a constant thing in your life um and then the crazy thing is is when you do and when you're

00:33:58.660 willing to that it only makes you stronger because now you have that piece of the puzzle that you

00:34:03.460 didn't have that makes you more complete it makes you in my opinion more of a man it makes you

00:34:10.960 more adequate it and it gives you more confidence and i think that's why it disgusts me is because

00:34:17.660 these too many tough guys put on a shell and if you if you do it a lot and if you're around it a

00:34:27.060 lot and especially if you're leading people a lot and especially men a lot um you can feel their

00:34:34.420 weakness no matter how much of a shell they put on and how tough they make themselves try and look

00:34:40.880 on the outside um you know deep down like there's hurt and there's weakness and there's and I

00:34:49.160 honestly and and it's not even that I'm disgusted as much as I just feel bad for them you know it's

00:34:54.500 like you want them to overcome that thing and gain that confidence so they can get to that next step

00:35:03.680 in their life so i think it's the reframing it from um if i ask the question i'm weak to

00:35:12.100 where the way i look at it is if i don't ask that makes me weak if i'm not willing to look weak

00:35:21.520 to be stronger then that makes me weak you know and when you reframe it like that i think it helps

00:35:27.220 change and i don't even think it's weakness not to know how to do something what's interesting

00:35:31.980 I brought up this one years ago, but you know, people will, the world will mock a man for not

00:35:40.340 knowing how to do something. The world thinks it should know how to do, right? So maybe you don't

00:35:45.520 know how to fight or change the oil on your truck or hunt or whatever, pick, pick your task of

00:35:52.160 choice and the world will mock you for it. And then you decide, well, okay, maybe I'll go learn

00:35:59.000 how to do it you know i never learned how to hunt so maybe i'll figure it out and so you start to

00:36:03.200 learn how to hunt and you invest in courses or programs or self-improvement something like the

00:36:07.920 iron council and then the world will mock you not only for not knowing how to do it but the fact 0.97

00:36:13.780 that you're actually putting yourself in the position to learn how to do it it's asinine that 0.72

00:36:18.740 we buy into that okay wait so i'm supposed to know but if i don't know because i was never taught

00:36:24.100 and i go out and get help then i'm weak for for trying to figure out how to do the thing you told

00:36:29.920 me i was weak for not knowing how to do it's insane and and men deal with this all the time

00:36:35.060 so the reality is turn that off and just go figure it out you know how many guys do we talk with sean

00:36:42.100 on a daily basis who didn't have a dad to teach them things you know how to how to drive stick

00:36:49.120 how to hunt how to hike how to read a map how to shoot a gun how to throw a punch how to throw a

00:36:53.760 baseball how to pick your thing and their dad just wasn't around regulating emotions if you want to

00:36:59.220 get into the deeper stuff regulating emotions controlling your anger um defending and standing

00:37:04.460 up and having the courage and audacity to be bold and brave but what i i made a pivot i like when

00:37:11.380 you were talking about reframing because everything that happens to you is or at least your perception

00:37:21.520 of it is based on the story that you make up about the circumstances. So if you go through

00:37:27.900 a divorce, for example, and I talk with divorced men every day, and some of them are bitter and

00:37:34.460 hostile and angry, and they might have some legitimate reasons to feel that way in certain

00:37:39.820 cases. But that's a story about a woman that you made up. It's not unequivocally true. It's

00:37:47.680 subjective. And I know other men who have been in even more, I would say, difficult marriages

00:37:54.100 from the surface, from the outside looking in, who decided to take ownership and who aren't

00:37:59.680 bitter or hostile or angry. They're actually hopeful and optimistic and growing. And so

00:38:05.960 reframing is important. And the reframe that I came up with is this. Because it was hard for me

00:38:13.540 to ask for help in the past it's not anymore but my reframe is when I ask somebody for help

00:38:21.460 I'm not only am I working on developing myself I'm giving somebody the opportunity to serve

00:38:26.900 so Sean if I reach out to you and I'm like hey man like I really need help with my business

00:38:32.040 because you're you're a tremendous business owner you've got very successful businesses I know how

00:38:37.480 you do financially and I reach out to you and I'm like hey man I'm really struggling with my

00:38:41.320 business? Can you give me some coaching and guidance? That's going to help me in my business,

00:38:45.580 but it's also giving you an opportunity to share your knowledge and your wisdom and your power and

00:38:51.320 your influence and your knowledge. And that's what makes a man valuable. So I, by asking,

00:38:58.740 just gave you the opportunity to be valuable, which makes me valuable to you. And then there's

00:39:05.200 one other thing I wanted to share here too, is that I think asking for help is a habit. I do.

00:39:10.400 yeah i think it's just a habit that you develop i was at home depot several months ago and i was

00:39:15.200 getting a bunch of wood at home depot for a project that i was working on around the house

00:39:18.800 and so i i got out to the truck i had all the wood in the cart and i start loading it in my truck and

00:39:23.540 i had you know two befores and two by eights and two by tens and then i had some sheet wood and

00:39:27.900 plywood and stuff like that and i'm loading this it's a hot day and i'm like man i could in my head

00:39:32.440 i'm thinking to myself i could really use some help like this i could really use some help right

00:39:36.960 now. And there was these guys, there was about three or four of them. They were walking out of

00:39:40.800 their truck. They looked like they were probably in construction and they were walking out of their

00:39:44.500 truck into home Depot. And I'm like, ah, I kind of want to ask, but I'm not going to bother these

00:39:48.840 guys. Like they're, they're doing their stuff. And I, I reminded myself, I said, no, you're going

00:39:53.560 to be a kind of person that asked for help when you need it. Because of what I just told you,

00:39:57.380 it gives people opportunities to serve and it helps me. So I was like, Hey guys, um, I know

00:40:02.040 this is a strange ask. Would you guys mind like helping me grab some of this and throw it in the

00:40:06.560 truck and all of them are like yeah yeah no problem and it took us two minutes you know two

00:40:11.460 or three minutes we threw it all in the truck shook their hands they're like hey you know glad

00:40:16.020 to help glad we could help you guys and it was just a good simple easy interaction but how many

00:40:21.460 times will we not go ask for help because we don't want to inconvenience people but i very rarely

00:40:28.320 unless i'm in the middle of something like deep i very rarely have felt inconvenienced by helping

00:40:34.260 other people i take it as a form of flattery it's a compliment that this person thinks i'm capable

00:40:39.280 enough to assist them with whatever they need help with so that's the reframe you know give

00:40:44.160 people the opportunity to serve and then just practice asking for help that's it just practice

00:40:49.540 asking for help and offering it too i would say you know it's funny it's kind of like the the

00:40:55.200 unspoken thing in that too that guys don't say on both ends is that on their end guarantee you 0.72

00:41:03.680 none of those guys afterwards are like oh man what a punk like what a what a puss he couldn't 0.58

00:41:08.440 he couldn't load his own truck right like that there's no possible way that happened but one

00:41:15.340 thing they probably didn't say that they felt was like man that was cool to be able to help that guy

00:41:20.380 absolutely we all feel that way right like man that was awesome you know and it's something we

00:41:26.760 don't speak out loud but that's how we feel so you know to to your point it's we're giving people

00:41:32.660 that opportunity simultaneously yeah all right let's go to the next question this may be the

00:41:39.300 last one here just for the sake of time this one comes from sean montgomery he says how can a man

00:41:46.060 recover after he's been betrayed by somebody he truly trusted i mean it depends on how deep you

00:41:58.000 go with that, right? There's layers to betrayal. Um, I mean, ultimately you have to, at some point,

00:42:08.280 um, forgive that person ultimately, no matter what, uh, the only, your only hope

00:42:16.100 is to get to a place of forgiveness. Um, it, it doesn't mean it has to happen right away,

00:42:24.920 but i think that's your only hope for sanity and for growth um and to be able to overcome

00:42:33.980 whatever the situation was um is to at some point to be able to forgive um yeah everybody's different

00:42:43.780 in that process um but i think ultimately that's where you have to get um as far as trust

00:42:52.900 um again depending on the depth of the betrayal i mean you may never trust them again

00:43:00.260 it doesn't mean you can't forgive them um you know it doesn't mean you can't have love

00:43:07.320 for them in some capacity um it doesn't even mean that you have to be able to like trust them again

00:43:16.680 um but i think the key is forgiveness so i know i didn't answer the question like how can you trust

00:43:24.880 them after you've been betrayed i mean honestly you might well i don't right and i don't think

00:43:29.960 that's even really the question because he says how can a man recover like how can he recover

00:43:35.340 so i don't even think he's saying because you know obviously when somebody breaks your trust that way

00:43:41.600 you're going to have skepticism about other relationships personal professional romantic

00:43:47.080 so like how do you recover yes everybody going to do this to me exactly and we do that why put

00:43:53.340 in the work if they're just going to betray me anyways right and then we'll sabotage things

00:43:58.420 that could otherwise be good because we're afraid of what even subconsciously what could happen

00:44:03.040 you know i wrote a couple things down as you were talking about the forgiveness piece because i i

00:44:07.080 think you're absolutely right the question is well how do you get to that point of forgiveness and i

00:44:12.240 wrote a couple things down this is not an exhaustive list by any means but number one is giving the

00:44:19.160 people at least honoring the right that individuals have to make their own decisions

00:44:25.260 like everybody makes decisions and they have the right to make their own decisions even if it's

00:44:34.000 the wrong decision. Even if it's something that will hurt somebody else or you, they still have

00:44:39.120 the right to make those decisions. And that's pretty easy to understand if you're somewhat

00:44:44.600 self-reflective because you know, you've made bad decisions that have hurt other people. And maybe

00:44:50.920 they're not even bad decisions. I've made good decisions that have hurt other people, whether

00:44:55.460 it's, you know, a romantic relationship or firing somebody that wasn't working out. You know, I'm

00:45:01.280 going to make decisions every day based on what my goals are and desires are. And it's going to

00:45:05.860 affect people negatively and positively. So I think understanding that, that they're a human

00:45:09.980 being also understand this, but barring a few exceptions, I don't really think people are evil.

00:45:20.520 I think they're, I think they're selfish. I think they can be lazy. I think they can be careless

00:45:29.120 and flippant with other people's emotions i'm i can be all of those things myself but i wouldn't

00:45:35.200 consider myself an evil person i would just consider myself a human who is self-interested

00:45:40.820 and at times forget to align my values and virtues with my actions and so if you can realize that hey

00:45:48.320 this person's probably not let's say a woman cheated on you is she an evil person no probably

00:45:53.580 not she's probably confused and probably frustrated and she has her reasons and there's reasons for 1.00

00:45:59.920 that i'm not saying it's right i'm not even justifying the behavior i'm just saying she's

00:46:04.340 probably not evil so there's some grace in that that's my third point is giving a person grace

00:46:10.180 as much as you can and it takes time but giving them the grace that you would want when you mess

00:46:15.400 up again that does not mean you have to subject yourself to failure hurt in fact you shouldn't

00:46:21.400 do that. That would just be idiotic. But also giving yourself some grace because what a lot 1.00

00:46:26.280 of guys will do when they're betrayed like this is they'll kick themselves in the pants because

00:46:32.100 they're like, why didn't I see this? Why did I allow myself to get taken advantage of? Why was

00:46:37.180 I afraid? Why was I cowardly? Why did I not do what needed to be done? Why didn't I establish

00:46:43.060 boundaries? Why did not uphold those boundaries? Well, you didn't. And now you know better. And so

00:46:49.220 the next time around when you get into a relationship even if it continues in the

00:46:52.840 relationship that you have and this is one thing I've seen quite often where guys will go back to

00:46:59.520 a spouse that's cheated on them that's not up that's not a decision for me to make that's their

00:47:05.800 decision to make I don't know if I could do that I've never been in that situation

00:47:10.060 and in that situation I don't know how I would respond I guess it would depend on the circumstances

00:47:16.000 but if a man is going to make those decisions then i think what he needs to do in order to start

00:47:22.640 rebuilding the trust in that person and also the trust in himself have some self-respect

00:47:30.100 and what does that look like it looks like boundaries and rules in place so sean if you

00:47:37.340 and i are business partners and you do something that is a little shady or you know whatever and

00:47:43.820 i decide for whatever reason like hey you know what i think i still want to stay in business with

00:47:47.700 this guy and i might not but if i do decide that then i have to communicate effectively with you

00:47:53.720 the rules about how we are going to operate and work and if you cross that set that line

00:47:58.680 we're done same thing with a spouse who's been unfaithful if you decide that you're going to

00:48:05.900 stay with them you can't hold it over their head anymore right you made the decision to stay not

00:48:11.520 them so that means you shouldn't hold that over their head anymore but you should have rules in

00:48:17.020 place that you communicate clearly and then that person to go back to the first point i made

00:48:21.760 has the right to decide if they're willing to abide by those rules and boundaries and if they're

00:48:27.660 not we part ways if they are then i'm going to expect that they do and there's consequences if

00:48:32.160 they don't you know it's it's the key word that stood out to me that you said is um the selfish

00:48:41.240 part, right? Because this is, I mean, I've watched this happen with so many people from a relationship

00:48:47.680 standpoint. Um, and in business it's happened to me countless times and, you know, I'm, I'm closing

00:48:53.780 in on 30 years of being in my business and, um, and we've been betrayed a bunch of times, you know,

00:49:00.140 and, and, uh, you know, when that happens, it hurts, you know, and, and, um, you know,

00:49:06.540 financially it's emotionally more than anything for me um because you care about people you pour

00:49:14.240 into people you help build them up you know in a business like ours you're building people up to

00:49:19.000 be independent um and then they go and they break their contracts you know that that they have with

00:49:24.500 you and then they find loopholes and whatever else to go around you know and and oh you can't

00:49:30.620 hold up this non-compete and whatever and i'm like to me it's like i don't care whether you

00:49:35.760 could hold it up in court or not like you'd signed that that's what you were going to do

00:49:40.280 you know and and but but again in business you find out like you know a lot of things can be

00:49:47.980 overcome in court right and so it's like in and for me though the way i still operate in my

00:49:55.160 business is we still sign the contracts and i expect you to have to hold it and i still love

00:50:00.960 you you know in the process of building you up and then if you break that down the road

00:50:05.640 that's on you and yeah financially i might take a step back or whatever else but ultimately if i

00:50:11.840 if i if i get jaded and i start treating the people that are still with me differently now

00:50:20.460 because you screwed me over i'm not going to last long term right you know because they're

00:50:26.640 going to feel differently. If I have an angle of always trying to just keep you with me,

00:50:32.800 instead of really pouring into you to make you better than me, it's my business is going to

00:50:39.780 feel different. My growth is going to be held back. And so is yours, you know? So I'm taking

00:50:46.140 the risk of you, you know, maybe screwing me over down the road, but that doesn't stop me from

00:50:51.620 giving my best to you. Right. And so in that, that's where the forgiveness piece comes into

00:50:57.800 play because the people that did it to me, it, it, every time I talk about like, they get brought up

00:51:04.560 a lot, you know, now like, Oh, this guy, remember when he did this and whatever. And I used to get

00:51:10.720 sucked into talking about, yeah, how they screwed me over. They broke their contracts. They shouldn't

00:51:15.220 have the you know to you know what yeah they did and that was at the time selfish and if they would

00:51:21.780 have stayed here everybody would have been better off and they could have still done their thing

00:51:26.320 but they've gone and like done great thing the ironic thing is like none of those people are

00:51:32.740 still like necessarily only involved in our type of business they've moved on to other things

00:51:37.920 and that was ultimately their goal this was like a stepping stone to that and so I've accepted it

00:51:43.920 like that and and I actually give them kudos now like that's awesome they did what they always

00:51:50.500 planned on doing this was a stepping stone to that and yeah they didn't do it the way I wanted

00:51:55.800 along the way but I appreciate they still achieved what they wanted to and I even if I could be a

00:52:01.420 small piece of that like I helped build them to that point I'll take it I don't gain from it

00:52:08.460 financially or anything else but i think you also said an important thing they're not evil

00:52:15.100 ultimately they're doing good things in the world and if i had any little piece of helping them get

00:52:21.620 there i'll take it you know because they're still out there doing things they're impacting people

00:52:27.160 they're making a difference and and lives are becoming better because of it and just because i

00:52:32.400 don't gain anything financially from it it's i'll take what i can get you know and that's the time

00:52:38.780 that we did have together it took a long time to get to that forgiveness piece and then looking at

00:52:44.640 the human element looking at the selfish part of it you know back then but then back to the

00:52:50.360 they're not evil and the goodness that came from it you know and sometimes they say time heals all

00:52:55.700 wounds right so i think that's the key is if you come from the right space forgiveness what can i

00:53:03.240 control who can how can i show up to be my best with the people that are still around me that

00:53:10.880 depend on me to be strong that you know need to hear the correct principles you know coming from

00:53:19.120 me um and and being carried out by me um and and and focus on that you know and then over time

00:53:30.740 if you continue on that path like good should still come from it you know of course it will

00:53:39.040 unless that person's evil and if they go down an evil path like you could have never controlled

00:53:44.980 that anyways right yeah it was doomed it was doomed anyway you know and with the with the idea

00:53:49.840 the concept of time healing all wounds it it does heal all wounds if if you treat the wound properly

00:53:57.020 and i think that's something a lot of people miss is they're like well just i'll eventually get over

00:54:02.060 it will you or is it now festering under the surface getting infected and creating all problem

00:54:07.940 all sorts of problems that you're not even aware of and so one little thing happens and that wound 0.98

00:54:12.820 opens up again and it's infected and pussy and gross and it creates new problems that weren't 0.92

00:54:17.980 there to begin with so what does it mean to actually heal a wound to treat it right to 0.98

00:54:22.980 actually figure out what's going on to keep it clean to uh change your bandages to you know

00:54:29.520 taking care of it not not exposing it too soon to to new hurt or you know new pain or or um

00:54:36.680 yeah it's just it's you got to be vigilant about it and i think the same is true when it comes to

00:54:41.360 betrayal is like I it's hard it's really so I'm going back to something I say don't say it's hard

00:54:48.160 but this one I actually do think is pretty difficult when you feel betrayed to actually

00:54:52.240 offer some grace to somebody say hey you know what like I still want the best for them there's

00:54:57.760 people in my life who I feel like I got the short end of the stick on and still I want the bet like

00:55:03.640 I want them to find happiness I want them to recover I want them to find new ways of living

00:55:09.660 their life. I want them to be fulfilled. It just wasn't with me and it won't be with me,

00:55:14.760 but I still want that for them. Well, brother, I appreciate you, man. We had some good questions

00:55:19.840 today. We got a lot more. I think we only got through four or five, but hopefully that gave

00:55:23.540 some depth to some of the questions that got brought up. Uh, guys, if you want more information

00:55:28.580 about what we're doing, like for example, you know, we talked about your son, not talking with

00:55:33.060 you. We talked about, um, why we avoid doing difficult things or things that we know that

00:55:38.560 need to be done. We talked about struggling with feeling weak if you ask for help. And then we

00:55:43.700 talked about recovering from somebody who's breached some level of trust with you. These

00:55:50.020 are conversations that we have every day inside the Iron Council. And it's so beneficial to have

00:55:55.780 the thousand plus guys that are in the Iron Council, but it's also beneficial to have the

00:56:00.640 five to eight to 10 guys that you're going to be working very, very closely with. Because when you

00:56:05.380 have these things come up, you can talk with someone who has new ideas, new perspectives,

00:56:10.400 new ways of looking at things that you hadn't seen before. So check it out. If you go to

00:56:15.400 orderofman.com slash iron council, you can get enrolled with us and we'll get you hooked up with

00:56:20.920 a coach that's going to work with you for the first several weeks and then get you on board

00:56:24.940 into a battle plans or a battle team, excuse me. So check that out again, orderofman.com slash

00:56:29.520 iron council. Sean, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for stepping in for Kip today. Thanks for your

00:56:33.760 words of wisdom and for your friendship you know we've been friends for a long time and it means a

00:56:38.100 lot that you believe in what we're doing and support what we're doing but also the conversations

00:56:42.240 and the talks that we've had and i know you'll always be there um if i need something as long

00:56:46.800 as i don't trust otherwise you're out all good no grace whatsoever all right guys uh hope you

00:56:56.760 enjoyed it we'll be back on friday until then go out there take action and become the man you

00:57:00.940 thank you for listening to the order of man podcast you're ready to take charge of your

00:57:06.440 life and be more of the man you were meant to be we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com

Order of Man - April 08, 2026

Struggling with Feeling Weak, Recover From Betrayal, and Avoiding the Obvious ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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