On this episode of the podcast, we are joined by our good friend and long time guest, to talk about how to reconnect with your teenage son. We talk about the importance of reconnecting with your kids and how to deal with the challenges that come with it.
00:05:22.200And quite frankly, I want to be comfortable with it.
00:05:24.540I don't want it to be an awkward thing every time I'm trying to help you be
00:05:28.740happy. So how can we do that? You know, can we set a time?
00:05:33.400Can we go fishing and talk? Can we go, you know,
00:05:38.180to dinner? Can it like just ask where he might feel comfortable and having a
00:05:45.860conversation, but coming from a place where he understands it's because I care
00:05:51.040about him. I love him. I want to engage with him and try and help him where I can, um, and see
00:05:59.120where it goes from there, you know? And if he's like, I think, no, I hate you, you know, then
00:06:04.300that's, that could be a good way to open the conversation. Then ask why, you know, what did
00:06:09.420I do? Where did I screw up? Where did I take some ownership, right? Be willing to do that. Um, if,
00:06:14.980if you're going to engage like that and, you know, it's, I've been through that with him before
00:06:20.560too um you know and my middle kid too because i approached him i tried to approach him like my
00:06:26.360older son and messed up a little bit and got him mad and had to own it and say sorry and which for
00:06:33.620my personality is super hard because i don't want to say sorry and yeah i don't know i'm always a
00:06:40.200little careful of of saying like things that are hard that aren't and i and i tell these this to
00:06:45.360the guys all the time like i'm not saying it couldn't be a struggle for people or dismissing
00:06:49.120what you're saying but also i think we need to be careful of is it hard no we're just choosing
00:06:55.020not to do it right maybe it's the ego getting in the way or you know maybe well that's what it is
00:07:00.620it's the ego getting in the way and that's 100 what it is yeah and i think we play this game of
00:07:06.720like oh it's hard it's like yeah i'm not gonna buy i don't buy that one like it's not hard so
00:07:12.080it's naturally it's naturally hard right it's like if you yeah i think like i said a struggle
00:07:16.780or a challenge for sure naturally or your personality or how you even grew up is a factor
00:07:21.520as well it's like if you're an alcoholic or if you're if you are your tendency is to
00:07:28.940be addictive right like some people have an addictive personality i have that i have a lot
00:07:33.500of addicts in my family on one side of my family and so if you have that tendency it's harder for
00:07:41.300you to be at a party and everybody's drinking for you to not at least be holding you know for me
00:07:47.400when I stopped drinking I had to hold a soda in my hand and then soda turned into water because I
00:07:52.580was starting to get a little chubby right like pounding soda because that was my habit right so
00:07:58.020it was like that was my tendency was to grab for a bottle you know beer like and then I would just
00:08:03.420drinking whatever when i was when i was drinking all the time and um so in that sense some things
00:08:12.280are harder for some people than others that's what i mean by hard so in that you have to be
00:08:17.740be you have to be aware enough and you're right it's not hard when you make the decision
00:08:22.960right because i have that tendency but i haven't drank in 25 or 26 years or something like that
00:08:29.640because i'm aware of it and i don't even allow myself to do it by making the choice of not yeah
00:08:37.220it not being hard if that makes sense yeah and i you know and to go back to the to this question
00:08:43.380what what is the ultimate outcome that you want well you want to be connected with your son
00:08:49.460well if that's the case then in many cases most of us i would say as fathers need to learn to
00:08:55.520apologize we just need to learn to get over the ego because that's what's going to draw you close
00:08:59.620to your kid but there was an interesting uh concept that i was introduced to just the other
00:09:05.260day actually i read this or heard this from patrick david bett and he said there's three phases that
00:09:10.120a young man goes through with how he views and perceives his father so the first is idol idolize0.94
00:09:17.660so when your kid's young he's six he's seven he's eight years old man he looks at you like a freaking
00:09:23.940hero you can do no wrong everything you touch turns to gold he wants to be like you he wants
00:09:29.760to do the same things as you he wants to talk with you so that's that idolized phase and then
00:09:35.700he moves into demonized phase and this this demonized phase hits about i would say late 12
00:09:42.420early 13 where the hormones start kicking in the testosterone production starts to rev up
00:09:48.440and what happens with a young man is then he's trying to rebel he's trying to gain some
00:09:55.600independence he's trying to establish some individual sovereignty he's becoming more
00:10:01.000physical he's learning to solve problems using higher elevated levels of testosterone so he0.85
00:10:09.660starts to look at his dad with a little chink in the armor like oh dad doesn't know dad does this0.99
00:10:15.400I see where he messes up he should do this better I could do better I could be this I could be that1.00
00:10:20.360if it weren't for dad and then what ends up happening is about I would say I would say
00:10:27.560probably generally about 17-ish I would say 17-18 he gets through that demonization phase
00:10:35.780as long as a man's handled it correctly he gets through that demonization phase and then he starts
00:10:40.440moving into uh humanizing his father and now as hey you know what dad wasn't the greatest but he
00:10:47.280did these things i see where he messed up but i know he always loved me he wasn't always the most
00:10:52.960patient but he was always at my games and that's where that humanized element comes in and i love
00:10:58.060that framework because what it does especially in this case with this question is it lets you know
00:11:04.060that more than likely unless there's some underlying factor like you talked about sean
00:11:08.460that this is just normal this is just a normal process and so i've got a 15 year old but when
00:11:15.640he was 13 and 14 we really had a hard time connecting and now we we get along great
00:11:22.460but part of the reason is is because i ask him better questions i love the idea of what you said
00:11:28.200scheduling something that needs to be had a conversation that needs to be had and then also
00:11:32.380just getting into their world you know you know you know my my kids you know breck and any you
00:11:37.220know all of them but brecken is like me you know we'll go hunt we like sports i mean everything
00:11:43.740that i like he likes it's so easy eli's different you know still athletic like sports but he's more
00:11:49.960into fashion he he likes to skateboard he likes video games he likes shoes he's a shoe guy right
00:11:56.460shoes yeah he loves his sneakers things that i don't necessarily really care all that much about
00:12:01.980but when you are trying to connect with your son get into their world it's not about the shoes or
00:12:08.860the video game or the car I mean he'll pull up a thing on a car and he'll tell me all the stats
00:12:13.420and my eyes kind of glaze over because in my mind I'm like I don't care about this but I care about
00:12:19.680him and if he cares about it then I care about it and so I ask good questions and a good question
00:12:25.680is not hey how you doing today or how are you those are closed-end questions i'm doing good
00:12:33.000i'm good like the more you can get better advanced question asking the better you're
00:12:40.140going to be able to connect not just with your kid but with other people so start asking those
00:12:44.100open-ended questions so a question might be hey what was the best part of your day today
00:12:48.040or hey you just got back from football practice what was what's the one play you learned better
00:12:53.400or who who are you hanging out with these days and why do you guys get along so well
00:12:59.540what what girl do you have an interest in what what are you attracted to in her
00:13:04.540so now in a way he's obligated to answer with more than just yes no i don't know maybe yeah
00:13:12.180whatever but that's been helpful too is just improving the quality of my questions i heard
00:13:17.060a great quote the quality of your life will be determined by the quality of questions that you
00:13:21.820ask and i believe that to be wholeheartedly true all right let's see what else do we got
00:13:28.020we got a lot of questions today so i'm just trying to figure out um
00:13:31.420here's one this one comes from connor sullivan he says i know exactly what i need to do in life
00:13:38.980and then he gives us a list he says i need to lose 30 pounds i need to stop drinking i need
00:13:45.220to wake up earlier and stop wasting time scrolling and online he says why do men still avoid doing
00:13:54.200what they know needs to be done that's their habit it's uh i mean it's as simple as that
00:14:04.500just as simple as knowing um that's what you've built your habits to do um with or without you
00:14:14.080thinking about them and so you have to change that habit i mean obviously i know you're a big
00:14:19.340fan of atomic habits um and then there's another book called the power of habit which is basically
00:14:24.360the same structure just a couple things you know said a little differently he's coming on the
00:14:31.380podcast actually awesome yeah i mean those those are two of my favorite books those are i have i
00:14:37.500get asked about this almost on a weekly basis you know in my business from guys asking me oh what do
00:14:42.880i know what i need to do i just don't do it um and it's so like a couple of my favorites are first
00:14:50.000start with um like finding where you're wasting the most time you know you you said it okay so
00:14:58.220you're scrolling so why are you still allowing yourself to have those apps on your phone
00:15:03.520just rip instagram and facebook off your phone or twitter whatever it is take it off you know like
00:15:10.700it's that simple you know so what's more important you finding useless information off the internet
00:15:18.240all day long or losing your 30 pounds and then you get rid of this that hour two or three or
00:15:26.180whatever you waste scrolling and replace that with your trip to the gym or to jiu-jitsu or to
00:15:31.520yoga even whatever you said like it's funny you said yoga but go to one of those classes and have0.99
00:15:36.840it kick your ass you know and like you'll be you'll be dripping sweat you know you'll you'll0.98
00:15:42.240it's it's great whatever it is it doesn't it could sound ridiculous it could sound too easy0.99
00:15:48.180um one of the best podcasts i've ever listened to in my life um addresses this and that's
00:15:55.760jelly roll on rogan did you listen to that no i haven't dude it's so freaking good because the
00:16:03.780guy's 500 pounds and now he's down to like two something you know he's lost like two whole people
00:16:10.760basically and um and he just started with walking like he just had to walk he couldn't even get up
00:16:20.220and like go for a walk without being gassed he couldn't walk to the end of his driveway
00:16:24.740so he started with that you know like walk to the end of the driveway and back and be gassed and
00:16:29.740then walk like you know uh five houses down and back and then walk 10 houses down and back and
00:16:37.400then like just build up that habit of walking where he could walk around the block without
00:16:42.800getting gassed you know and i'm like i'm not saying it anywhere near the way he did and it's
00:16:47.980it's powerful because you're hearing firsthand somebody that didn't take any of those excuses
00:16:55.020of i know what i need to do it's just it's like you were talking about before but it's hard
00:16:59.700right um well another thing you could do like even with this because i i'm a firm believer in
00:17:05.380that small those small little steps is you know what maybe don't delete your apps right away
00:17:10.320maybe just go on a walk while you're scrolling and and so now you know you walk let's say two
00:17:16.780or three miles that's good that's gonna take you you know 40 minutes maybe let's say it's like all
00:17:22.540right 40 minutes that's your that's your scrolling time you got 40 minutes you can you can scroll
00:17:27.400while you walk i wouldn't advise that long term but if that's what gets you moving then do it
00:17:31.900yeah just look up when you cross the street i mean that means you're getting yeah right exactly
00:17:35.680yeah or run into a you know do a face plant into a telephone call or something
00:17:39.800oh man but you know what's interesting about everybody is i was just gonna say what's
00:17:48.300interesting about this that i found is that you know all of us have probably driven on a muddy0.99
00:17:53.340dirty dirt back road somewhere right and you know right after a storm some asshole goes up there0.96
00:18:00.600and he just plows through the dirt and makes these you know muddy tracks and then what happens is0.98
00:18:06.120you're driving it's literally like trying to pull the tires into the track yeah and if it's slick
00:18:12.220and muddy it's actually pretty hard to pop yourself up out of those those ruts and sometimes
00:18:16.900it requires you to give it some gas and jerk the wheel and pop yourself up out of there. And then
00:18:23.600you've got to be vigilant about staying out of those tracks. And the same thing is true about
00:18:27.120habits. You know, sometimes it's got to take a big change. Like, Hey, you know what? I am going
00:18:32.420to go do jujitsu. I am going to go do that crazy thing I've always wanted to do. I am going to
00:18:37.360stop cold Turkey on drinking or smoking or whatever it might be. And it takes, it takes a0.75
00:18:44.160violent disruptive action in some ways to really get yourself out of that situation
00:18:49.480you it's that's why i like those books and i like that as a start like if he hasn't read
00:18:56.540those just start with one of them even if you're listening to it right you listen to the audible
00:19:01.120and pay attention while you're driving around you know and you have the time to do it if you're
00:19:06.060driving anywhere um to at least listen but you know I think of that habit it still serves me
00:19:15.080today like um when I when it was first introduced to me is before I read the book but it was a guy
00:19:21.380told me he said hey catch yourself wasting time and then replace it with the things that you know
00:19:27.100are useful to you and the example he used was he's like I used to do it I used to be obsessed
00:19:32.060with college football. So every Saturday I'd find myself spending eight to 10 hours in front of the
00:19:37.780TV, watching football games, you know, and not a single one of those. And this was in my business
00:19:43.460that he was talking about this, where he's like, you know, and then I, I added up how many phone
00:19:48.800calls I could have made in that time, you know, to book appointments. And that would make me money
00:19:54.200directly make me money. Um, and he's like, yeah, it was a Saturday. He's like, but what would I
00:20:00.320rather you know waste time watching something that was never gonna pay me or do anything to
00:20:06.000serve my family you know and basically just root for somebody else to win their life or you know
00:20:13.560replace the time with something that directly serves me he's like so I would start catching
00:20:17.640myself I'd be like one or two football games in and be like oh instead of this I'm gonna make
00:20:24.440phone calls he's like and I didn't do the fill the whole eight to ten hours with phone calls he's
00:20:28.620like, but it started with 30 minutes of phone calls. And all of a sudden that yielded a few
00:20:33.580more appointments that week. And all of a sudden I started making an extra thousand bucks a month,
00:20:38.5202000 a month. And then I'm like, man, what if I did two hours? What if I did three hours? And
00:20:43.860you know, the two or 3000 a month extra turned into 10 grand a month extra. Um, just from
00:20:50.340replacing that one little habit where I was wasting time and turning it into useful time
00:20:55.480towards the pursuit i was taking and um and then that became my habit and then so like i took that
00:21:02.160started doing the same thing you know replacing all the things this is before social media or
00:21:07.580you know even cell phones like no text messages no anything so back then it was tv right and
00:21:14.040turning off the tv and not watching it replacing it with with useful activities and and physically
00:21:20.900everything to where literally that's still my habit today, you know, where I caught myself on
00:21:27.020Saturday, just kind of being lazy. I knew there was this project I've been putting off, um, clearing
00:21:32.640the Creek at my house. Um, that was, that was blocked, um, in causing flooding. And I had a
00:21:39.800window of two hours where something happened. And I was, I was like, okay, I could chill and do
00:21:45.120nothing. Or I could finally just attack that thing. And I went and attacked it, you know,
00:21:49.780got it done and it's finished but that's without the habit I would have just wasted that two hours
00:21:57.220right so it's like catching myself knowing what and then simultaneously with that I know
00:22:03.280this has gotten long but this is an important piece is knowing what you want like and it's
00:22:11.440got to be more important than all the rest of it all of the comfort and when you know what you want
00:22:19.220bad enough you're going to have the things to replace that wasted time with without it without
00:22:26.880knowing what you want badly enough and it not being important enough um you're not going to
00:22:33.680know what to fill the time with and it's going to turn into more wasted time because that's your
00:22:39.080habit your habit is to do something no matter what right and so knowing what you want and then what
00:22:45.240the actions are. That's why I like the battle plan so much, right? It's like knowing what the
00:22:50.920actions are that are going to get you to that goal. Um, and then filling your wasted time with
00:22:59.040those things. Well, and I think that's also why it's so important to plan out your day the night
00:23:03.960before, because if you wake up this tomorrow morning, let's say without a plan, like you don't
00:23:10.440know what workout you're going to do. You don't know what you need to get done at work. You don't
00:23:13.480know what activities your kids have you don't know what your wife's got going on and what you0.85
00:23:17.700need to plan around i mean you're just winging it flying by the seat of your pants and of course
00:23:21.980you're going to be wasting time on your phone or doom scrolling or doing whatever you do but what's
00:23:27.100interesting about habits and it talks about this in atomic habits and the power of habit
00:23:31.220is that it's just chemicals that's all this is and i think if we spend more time thinking about
00:23:39.400how this process of engaging new habits works, it's really not that complex. I mean, yes,
00:23:46.700the process is the way our body develops chemicals and hormones and everything else, but
00:23:51.040there's, we've all heard of dopamine as, as a hormone and it's what they would call a
00:23:56.660neurotransmitter. So anytime a human being engages in an activity that rewards them in some way,
00:24:04.780Even if the reward is getting high, for example, or getting drunk, things that we would overwhelmingly say is not a good reward, our body still feels good about it.
00:24:16.100And then the dopamine hits, and we are so in tune and addicted to the dopamine that we automatically assume it was the behavior that was right.
00:24:25.920And so the dopamine reinforces the behavior, and man, do we want that dopamine.
00:24:30.400so you can actually quite literally reprogram your brain to engage in new habits and to release
00:24:40.420dopamine dopamine based on new behaviors and i think this goes to what you're saying sean about
00:24:46.180hey i want to know what i want right so i'm going to lose 30 pounds well why is that important to
00:24:50.780you oh i want to have confidence why is that important to you i want to feel good about who
00:24:54.420i am i want to show up for my family i want to show up for my wife and so you get down as deep
00:24:58.540as you can. And then you go work out and you get a sweat and you get home and you go to get on the
00:25:04.440scale tomorrow and you're down half a pound dopamine release. And then you have to make
00:25:09.420that connection to the workout is why I lost half a pound. Or the same thing is true with
00:25:15.260this guy wants to lose 30 pounds. You know, I've got a bag of M&Ms sitting on my counter right now.
00:25:21.92010 years ago, eight years ago, maybe even five years ago, I had to down those things. And now
00:25:26.220I'm like, I don't, they don't even sound good to me. It doesn't even sound good because I spent so
00:25:32.400much time reprogramming that, that those, those M&Ms lead to results that I, that are less than
00:25:40.300favorable for me. And 300 calories a day extra leads to, you know, dozens of pounds over the
00:25:49.880year which is crazy to think about yeah um but you have to rewire rewire your brain and i think
00:25:57.740that's why the power of habit and atomic habits is so powerful because it'll help you do that
00:26:02.000all right let's go to um i saw this one where is it okay so this one's from eric lawson he says
00:26:09.600it's kind of interesting because he says something but he's actually doing it as he's saying it he
00:26:14.180says I don't know how to admit that I'm struggling without feeling weak and I think that's a big
00:26:21.880thing for a lot of guys but what's interesting about this is imagine any other scenario of life
00:26:30.340imagine you want to get good at something like you want to get good at jujitsu or you want to
00:26:38.180get good at playing the piano or the guitar or learning how to draw or learning how to take
00:26:44.940pictures. It's interesting because we usually don't beat ourselves up too bad. A little of that
00:26:50.040self-doubt will come in, but we don't say it's weak not to know how to do it. We just engage
00:26:57.640in the behavior of doing it so that we can become strong. We have a healthy perspective for the most
00:27:05.280part with engaging in new behaviors that we know are going to serve us because we know it'll make
00:27:10.600us better. So it's always fascinating to me when we start to get into our minds and get upset about
00:27:16.760like not having it all figured out. You know, maybe you're 40 years old and you thought you'd
00:27:23.480be further down the track. Does that mean you're weak? No, it just means you don't have it figured
00:27:27.480out. It's just a data set that now you can do something new with. And I wish more guys would
00:27:33.300just be okay with where they are i often tell people it's it's there there's no there's no
00:27:41.780virtue in victimhood there's only virtue in overcoming it and i'm not saying that being
00:27:49.060a victim is necessarily bad because people legitimately may have been victimized that
00:27:54.040happens but it's not virtuous to be victimized or to play the victim game or to wallow or to
00:28:00.040feel sorry for yourself that's not virtuous even though popular culture would tell you it is right
00:28:05.620we play these like victim hierarchy games like however many victim points you can get then you're
00:28:11.040the winner and you're rewarded for that but that doesn't work long term and for you if you're
00:28:16.700feeling weak stop it do what you need to do whatever you need to do in order to get yourself
00:28:24.440out of that victimization that you might be slipping into and so that means i'm gonna have
00:28:29.780really close friends. You know, I had a conversation just the other day, a couple actually, over the
00:28:34.920past several weeks, with two men that are really close to me. One is Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge
00:28:40.700and another is Matt Boudreau. And we made a decision months and months ago to just get together
00:28:48.240over a phone call, like a Zoom call, once a month. And we've been doing that pretty consistently for
00:28:54.640the past seven or eight months or so. And I noticed the last time that we talked, so last,
00:29:01.560maybe it was two months ago, that we were just skimming the surface of what we could potentially
00:29:06.680talk about. We were all talking about how good the business is and life's good and the kids are good
00:29:12.000and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, you know what? This is kind of bullshit. I don't need to1.00
00:29:17.300have a meeting for the sake of meetings. I've got other things I could be doing. I don't need to
00:29:21.880tell everybody my life is good i could actually be doing something so i share oh no i can't stand
00:29:30.080being in those kind of conversations it's horror it's such a waste of time everybody's like yeah
00:29:34.180i'm good the kids are good life's good i'm like bullshit and so i but i was engaged in it i was
00:29:39.540doing it myself and so i told these guys a couple of things that were were challenging for me to
00:29:45.040admit you know weren't comfortable for me to admit but i thought you know this is something i want out
00:29:50.200of this relationship. I want to actually be able to have real conversations. I want to be able to
00:29:55.300tell these guys things that I would not probably tell anybody else. Insecurities, inadequacies,
00:30:01.920temptations, all of those things. And if I want that, then it's on me to do something about it.
00:30:09.680It's not anybody else's responsibility to ensure I'm getting what I need. That's my responsibility.
00:30:15.400so I opened up and I shared some things with these guys and man it was so liberating for me
00:30:20.580a lot more accountability built in and then over the past several weeks they've been opening up
00:30:25.480about things that they're dealing with that I didn't I had no idea and I've known these guys
00:30:30.700for 10 years and I had no idea of the suffering that they're experiencing but it takes somebody
00:30:37.600to go first and if anything getting help that you need brotherhood therapy getting engaged in
00:30:45.060hobbies and activities ditching the stuff that's not serving you like that past question that's
00:30:50.040not strength that's actually the thing that's going to make you strong it's courageous it's
00:30:53.860not strength in and of itself it's courage which leads to strength so that's my take
00:30:59.600as you when you were talking i was i wrote down a couple things um that and i'm trying to find a0.95
00:31:10.360way to say it without sounding like an asshole, but I don't think I can. I like, I don't think0.51
00:31:15.760you can either. I know you well enough. You just always sound like an asshole. So you guys just
00:31:19.400take it with a grain of salt. He's got a good heart, but you know, it fails on delivery at times.
00:31:25.900That I'm not worried about either, but it, it, like I do pass judgment on guys constantly,
00:31:34.420but on the guys that do the two things you talked about it like it drives me crazy when
00:31:42.760people play the victim i can't stand i think like the weakest men are like don't take ownership
00:31:50.040right um like that one drives me crazy but i think that's a normal i think most strong men
00:31:55.880and especially high achievers feel that way but i think the one that gets missed and maybe
00:32:02.280but my perspective is it really drives me nuts that quote-unquote tough guys that don't ask for
00:32:09.700help that one I think is like one of the weakest qualities that a you know quote-unquote strong man
00:32:17.320can have is to not be and I know like I don't like the word vulnerable either I know you don't
00:32:24.200really like that word but the vulnerable like being vulnerable enough to at least admit that
00:32:30.580you don't know it all you don't have it all you don't that you do need help that you need a support
00:32:37.020system that you you know you're not the the be all and end all um is hard for men to do0.90
00:32:48.460much harder than women women are the opposite they they build support groups around themselves0.95
00:32:55.600constantly. Right. Um, so it's like, that's something we, I think can learn the most from1.00
00:33:02.720women is to be willing to ask questions that you, especially if you think you're going to sound0.95
00:33:11.780stupid or if you're think you're going to sound weak, if you, I think it's weak to not ask the1.00
00:33:18.820question. I know it. It's a, you mentioned you did because you're afraid and you're not addressing1.00
00:33:24.340it that makes it weakness that's it's cowardly is what it is totally cowardly that's why I think
00:33:29.600it kind of disgusts me right because I'm like dude how weak are you that's that's like that's0.98
00:33:36.420a punk move you know on yourself like that's you're being a puss right like um at least be0.93
00:33:43.800man enough to to get help right to to get support to overcome that thing you know instead of it0.62
00:33:53.080being a constant thing in your life um and then the crazy thing is is when you do and when you're
00:33:58.660willing to that it only makes you stronger because now you have that piece of the puzzle that you
00:34:03.460didn't have that makes you more complete it makes you in my opinion more of a man it makes you
00:34:10.960more adequate it and it gives you more confidence and i think that's why it disgusts me is because
00:34:17.660these too many tough guys put on a shell and if you if you do it a lot and if you're around it a
00:34:27.060lot and especially if you're leading people a lot and especially men a lot um you can feel their
00:34:34.420weakness no matter how much of a shell they put on and how tough they make themselves try and look
00:34:40.880on the outside um you know deep down like there's hurt and there's weakness and there's and I
00:34:49.160honestly and and it's not even that I'm disgusted as much as I just feel bad for them you know it's
00:34:54.500like you want them to overcome that thing and gain that confidence so they can get to that next step
00:35:03.680in their life so i think it's the reframing it from um if i ask the question i'm weak to
00:35:12.100where the way i look at it is if i don't ask that makes me weak if i'm not willing to look weak
00:35:21.520to be stronger then that makes me weak you know and when you reframe it like that i think it helps
00:35:27.220change and i don't even think it's weakness not to know how to do something what's interesting
00:35:31.980I brought up this one years ago, but you know, people will, the world will mock a man for not
00:35:40.340knowing how to do something. The world thinks it should know how to do, right? So maybe you don't
00:35:45.520know how to fight or change the oil on your truck or hunt or whatever, pick, pick your task of
00:35:52.160choice and the world will mock you for it. And then you decide, well, okay, maybe I'll go learn
00:35:59.000how to do it you know i never learned how to hunt so maybe i'll figure it out and so you start to
00:36:03.200learn how to hunt and you invest in courses or programs or self-improvement something like the
00:36:07.920iron council and then the world will mock you not only for not knowing how to do it but the fact0.97
00:36:13.780that you're actually putting yourself in the position to learn how to do it it's asinine that0.72
00:36:18.740we buy into that okay wait so i'm supposed to know but if i don't know because i was never taught
00:36:24.100and i go out and get help then i'm weak for for trying to figure out how to do the thing you told
00:36:29.920me i was weak for not knowing how to do it's insane and and men deal with this all the time
00:36:35.060so the reality is turn that off and just go figure it out you know how many guys do we talk with sean
00:36:42.100on a daily basis who didn't have a dad to teach them things you know how to how to drive stick
00:36:49.120how to hunt how to hike how to read a map how to shoot a gun how to throw a punch how to throw a
00:36:53.760baseball how to pick your thing and their dad just wasn't around regulating emotions if you want to
00:36:59.220get into the deeper stuff regulating emotions controlling your anger um defending and standing
00:37:04.460up and having the courage and audacity to be bold and brave but what i i made a pivot i like when
00:37:11.380you were talking about reframing because everything that happens to you is or at least your perception
00:37:21.520of it is based on the story that you make up about the circumstances. So if you go through
00:37:27.900a divorce, for example, and I talk with divorced men every day, and some of them are bitter and
00:37:34.460hostile and angry, and they might have some legitimate reasons to feel that way in certain
00:37:39.820cases. But that's a story about a woman that you made up. It's not unequivocally true. It's
00:37:47.680subjective. And I know other men who have been in even more, I would say, difficult marriages
00:37:54.100from the surface, from the outside looking in, who decided to take ownership and who aren't
00:37:59.680bitter or hostile or angry. They're actually hopeful and optimistic and growing. And so
00:38:05.960reframing is important. And the reframe that I came up with is this. Because it was hard for me
00:38:13.540to ask for help in the past it's not anymore but my reframe is when I ask somebody for help
00:38:21.460I'm not only am I working on developing myself I'm giving somebody the opportunity to serve
00:38:26.900so Sean if I reach out to you and I'm like hey man like I really need help with my business
00:38:32.040because you're you're a tremendous business owner you've got very successful businesses I know how
00:38:37.480you do financially and I reach out to you and I'm like hey man I'm really struggling with my
00:38:41.320business? Can you give me some coaching and guidance? That's going to help me in my business,
00:38:45.580but it's also giving you an opportunity to share your knowledge and your wisdom and your power and
00:38:51.320your influence and your knowledge. And that's what makes a man valuable. So I, by asking,
00:38:58.740just gave you the opportunity to be valuable, which makes me valuable to you. And then there's
00:39:05.200one other thing I wanted to share here too, is that I think asking for help is a habit. I do.
00:39:10.400yeah i think it's just a habit that you develop i was at home depot several months ago and i was
00:39:15.200getting a bunch of wood at home depot for a project that i was working on around the house
00:39:18.800and so i i got out to the truck i had all the wood in the cart and i start loading it in my truck and
00:39:23.540i had you know two befores and two by eights and two by tens and then i had some sheet wood and
00:39:27.900plywood and stuff like that and i'm loading this it's a hot day and i'm like man i could in my head
00:39:32.440i'm thinking to myself i could really use some help like this i could really use some help right
00:39:36.960now. And there was these guys, there was about three or four of them. They were walking out of
00:39:40.800their truck. They looked like they were probably in construction and they were walking out of their
00:39:44.500truck into home Depot. And I'm like, ah, I kind of want to ask, but I'm not going to bother these
00:39:48.840guys. Like they're, they're doing their stuff. And I, I reminded myself, I said, no, you're going
00:39:53.560to be a kind of person that asked for help when you need it. Because of what I just told you,
00:39:57.380it gives people opportunities to serve and it helps me. So I was like, Hey guys, um, I know
00:40:02.040this is a strange ask. Would you guys mind like helping me grab some of this and throw it in the
00:40:06.560truck and all of them are like yeah yeah no problem and it took us two minutes you know two
00:40:11.460or three minutes we threw it all in the truck shook their hands they're like hey you know glad
00:40:16.020to help glad we could help you guys and it was just a good simple easy interaction but how many
00:40:21.460times will we not go ask for help because we don't want to inconvenience people but i very rarely
00:40:28.320unless i'm in the middle of something like deep i very rarely have felt inconvenienced by helping
00:40:34.260other people i take it as a form of flattery it's a compliment that this person thinks i'm capable
00:40:39.280enough to assist them with whatever they need help with so that's the reframe you know give
00:40:44.160people the opportunity to serve and then just practice asking for help that's it just practice
00:40:49.540asking for help and offering it too i would say you know it's funny it's kind of like the the
00:40:55.200unspoken thing in that too that guys don't say on both ends is that on their end guarantee you0.72
00:41:03.680none of those guys afterwards are like oh man what a punk like what a what a puss he couldn't0.58
00:41:08.440he couldn't load his own truck right like that there's no possible way that happened but one
00:41:15.340thing they probably didn't say that they felt was like man that was cool to be able to help that guy
00:41:20.380absolutely we all feel that way right like man that was awesome you know and it's something we
00:41:26.760don't speak out loud but that's how we feel so you know to to your point it's we're giving people
00:41:32.660that opportunity simultaneously yeah all right let's go to the next question this may be the
00:41:39.300last one here just for the sake of time this one comes from sean montgomery he says how can a man
00:41:46.060recover after he's been betrayed by somebody he truly trusted i mean it depends on how deep you
00:41:58.000go with that, right? There's layers to betrayal. Um, I mean, ultimately you have to, at some point,
00:42:08.280um, forgive that person ultimately, no matter what, uh, the only, your only hope
00:42:16.100is to get to a place of forgiveness. Um, it, it doesn't mean it has to happen right away,
00:42:24.920but i think that's your only hope for sanity and for growth um and to be able to overcome
00:42:33.980whatever the situation was um is to at some point to be able to forgive um yeah everybody's different
00:42:43.780in that process um but i think ultimately that's where you have to get um as far as trust
00:42:52.900um again depending on the depth of the betrayal i mean you may never trust them again
00:43:00.260it doesn't mean you can't forgive them um you know it doesn't mean you can't have love
00:43:07.320for them in some capacity um it doesn't even mean that you have to be able to like trust them again
00:43:16.680um but i think the key is forgiveness so i know i didn't answer the question like how can you trust
00:43:24.880them after you've been betrayed i mean honestly you might well i don't right and i don't think
00:43:29.960that's even really the question because he says how can a man recover like how can he recover
00:43:35.340so i don't even think he's saying because you know obviously when somebody breaks your trust that way
00:43:41.600you're going to have skepticism about other relationships personal professional romantic
00:43:47.080so like how do you recover yes everybody going to do this to me exactly and we do that why put
00:43:53.340in the work if they're just going to betray me anyways right and then we'll sabotage things
00:43:58.420that could otherwise be good because we're afraid of what even subconsciously what could happen
00:44:03.040you know i wrote a couple things down as you were talking about the forgiveness piece because i i
00:44:07.080think you're absolutely right the question is well how do you get to that point of forgiveness and i
00:44:12.240wrote a couple things down this is not an exhaustive list by any means but number one is giving the
00:44:19.160people at least honoring the right that individuals have to make their own decisions
00:44:25.260like everybody makes decisions and they have the right to make their own decisions even if it's
00:44:34.000the wrong decision. Even if it's something that will hurt somebody else or you, they still have
00:44:39.120the right to make those decisions. And that's pretty easy to understand if you're somewhat
00:44:44.600self-reflective because you know, you've made bad decisions that have hurt other people. And maybe
00:44:50.920they're not even bad decisions. I've made good decisions that have hurt other people, whether
00:44:55.460it's, you know, a romantic relationship or firing somebody that wasn't working out. You know, I'm
00:45:01.280going to make decisions every day based on what my goals are and desires are. And it's going to
00:45:05.860affect people negatively and positively. So I think understanding that, that they're a human
00:45:09.980being also understand this, but barring a few exceptions, I don't really think people are evil.
00:45:20.520I think they're, I think they're selfish. I think they can be lazy. I think they can be careless
00:45:29.120and flippant with other people's emotions i'm i can be all of those things myself but i wouldn't
00:45:35.200consider myself an evil person i would just consider myself a human who is self-interested
00:45:40.820and at times forget to align my values and virtues with my actions and so if you can realize that hey
00:45:48.320this person's probably not let's say a woman cheated on you is she an evil person no probably
00:45:53.580not she's probably confused and probably frustrated and she has her reasons and there's reasons for1.00
00:45:59.920that i'm not saying it's right i'm not even justifying the behavior i'm just saying she's
00:46:04.340probably not evil so there's some grace in that that's my third point is giving a person grace
00:46:10.180as much as you can and it takes time but giving them the grace that you would want when you mess
00:46:15.400up again that does not mean you have to subject yourself to failure hurt in fact you shouldn't
00:46:21.400do that. That would just be idiotic. But also giving yourself some grace because what a lot1.00
00:46:26.280of guys will do when they're betrayed like this is they'll kick themselves in the pants because
00:46:32.100they're like, why didn't I see this? Why did I allow myself to get taken advantage of? Why was
00:46:37.180I afraid? Why was I cowardly? Why did I not do what needed to be done? Why didn't I establish
00:46:43.060boundaries? Why did not uphold those boundaries? Well, you didn't. And now you know better. And so
00:46:49.220the next time around when you get into a relationship even if it continues in the
00:46:52.840relationship that you have and this is one thing I've seen quite often where guys will go back to
00:46:59.520a spouse that's cheated on them that's not up that's not a decision for me to make that's their
00:47:05.800decision to make I don't know if I could do that I've never been in that situation
00:47:10.060and in that situation I don't know how I would respond I guess it would depend on the circumstances
00:47:16.000but if a man is going to make those decisions then i think what he needs to do in order to start
00:47:22.640rebuilding the trust in that person and also the trust in himself have some self-respect
00:47:30.100and what does that look like it looks like boundaries and rules in place so sean if you
00:47:37.340and i are business partners and you do something that is a little shady or you know whatever and
00:47:43.820i decide for whatever reason like hey you know what i think i still want to stay in business with
00:47:47.700this guy and i might not but if i do decide that then i have to communicate effectively with you
00:47:53.720the rules about how we are going to operate and work and if you cross that set that line
00:47:58.680we're done same thing with a spouse who's been unfaithful if you decide that you're going to
00:48:05.900stay with them you can't hold it over their head anymore right you made the decision to stay not
00:48:11.520them so that means you shouldn't hold that over their head anymore but you should have rules in
00:48:17.020place that you communicate clearly and then that person to go back to the first point i made
00:48:21.760has the right to decide if they're willing to abide by those rules and boundaries and if they're
00:48:27.660not we part ways if they are then i'm going to expect that they do and there's consequences if
00:48:32.160they don't you know it's it's the key word that stood out to me that you said is um the selfish
00:48:41.240part, right? Because this is, I mean, I've watched this happen with so many people from a relationship
00:48:47.680standpoint. Um, and in business it's happened to me countless times and, you know, I'm, I'm closing
00:48:53.780in on 30 years of being in my business and, um, and we've been betrayed a bunch of times, you know,
00:49:00.140and, and, uh, you know, when that happens, it hurts, you know, and, and, um, you know,
00:49:06.540financially it's emotionally more than anything for me um because you care about people you pour
00:49:14.240into people you help build them up you know in a business like ours you're building people up to
00:49:19.000be independent um and then they go and they break their contracts you know that that they have with
00:49:24.500you and then they find loopholes and whatever else to go around you know and and oh you can't
00:49:30.620hold up this non-compete and whatever and i'm like to me it's like i don't care whether you
00:49:35.760could hold it up in court or not like you'd signed that that's what you were going to do
00:49:40.280you know and and but but again in business you find out like you know a lot of things can be
00:49:47.980overcome in court right and so it's like in and for me though the way i still operate in my
00:49:55.160business is we still sign the contracts and i expect you to have to hold it and i still love
00:50:00.960you you know in the process of building you up and then if you break that down the road
00:50:05.640that's on you and yeah financially i might take a step back or whatever else but ultimately if i
00:50:11.840if i if i get jaded and i start treating the people that are still with me differently now
00:50:20.460because you screwed me over i'm not going to last long term right you know because they're
00:50:26.640going to feel differently. If I have an angle of always trying to just keep you with me,
00:50:32.800instead of really pouring into you to make you better than me, it's my business is going to
00:50:39.780feel different. My growth is going to be held back. And so is yours, you know? So I'm taking
00:50:46.140the risk of you, you know, maybe screwing me over down the road, but that doesn't stop me from
00:50:51.620giving my best to you. Right. And so in that, that's where the forgiveness piece comes into
00:50:57.800play because the people that did it to me, it, it, every time I talk about like, they get brought up
00:51:04.560a lot, you know, now like, Oh, this guy, remember when he did this and whatever. And I used to get
00:51:10.720sucked into talking about, yeah, how they screwed me over. They broke their contracts. They shouldn't
00:51:15.220have the you know to you know what yeah they did and that was at the time selfish and if they would
00:51:21.780have stayed here everybody would have been better off and they could have still done their thing
00:51:26.320but they've gone and like done great thing the ironic thing is like none of those people are
00:51:32.740still like necessarily only involved in our type of business they've moved on to other things
00:51:37.920and that was ultimately their goal this was like a stepping stone to that and so I've accepted it
00:51:43.920like that and and I actually give them kudos now like that's awesome they did what they always
00:51:50.500planned on doing this was a stepping stone to that and yeah they didn't do it the way I wanted
00:51:55.800along the way but I appreciate they still achieved what they wanted to and I even if I could be a
00:52:01.420small piece of that like I helped build them to that point I'll take it I don't gain from it
00:52:08.460financially or anything else but i think you also said an important thing they're not evil
00:52:15.100ultimately they're doing good things in the world and if i had any little piece of helping them get
00:52:21.620there i'll take it you know because they're still out there doing things they're impacting people
00:52:27.160they're making a difference and and lives are becoming better because of it and just because i
00:52:32.400don't gain anything financially from it it's i'll take what i can get you know and that's the time
00:52:38.780that we did have together it took a long time to get to that forgiveness piece and then looking at
00:52:44.640the human element looking at the selfish part of it you know back then but then back to the
00:52:50.360they're not evil and the goodness that came from it you know and sometimes they say time heals all
00:52:55.700wounds right so i think that's the key is if you come from the right space forgiveness what can i
00:53:03.240control who can how can i show up to be my best with the people that are still around me that
00:53:10.880depend on me to be strong that you know need to hear the correct principles you know coming from
00:53:19.120me um and and being carried out by me um and and and focus on that you know and then over time
00:53:30.740if you continue on that path like good should still come from it you know of course it will
00:53:39.040unless that person's evil and if they go down an evil path like you could have never controlled
00:53:44.980that anyways right yeah it was doomed it was doomed anyway you know and with the with the idea
00:53:49.840the concept of time healing all wounds it it does heal all wounds if if you treat the wound properly
00:53:57.020and i think that's something a lot of people miss is they're like well just i'll eventually get over
00:54:02.060it will you or is it now festering under the surface getting infected and creating all problem
00:54:07.940all sorts of problems that you're not even aware of and so one little thing happens and that wound0.98
00:54:12.820opens up again and it's infected and pussy and gross and it creates new problems that weren't0.92
00:54:17.980there to begin with so what does it mean to actually heal a wound to treat it right to0.98
00:54:22.980actually figure out what's going on to keep it clean to uh change your bandages to you know
00:54:29.520taking care of it not not exposing it too soon to to new hurt or you know new pain or or um
00:54:36.680yeah it's just it's you got to be vigilant about it and i think the same is true when it comes to
00:54:41.360betrayal is like I it's hard it's really so I'm going back to something I say don't say it's hard
00:54:48.160but this one I actually do think is pretty difficult when you feel betrayed to actually
00:54:52.240offer some grace to somebody say hey you know what like I still want the best for them there's
00:54:57.760people in my life who I feel like I got the short end of the stick on and still I want the bet like
00:55:03.640I want them to find happiness I want them to recover I want them to find new ways of living
00:55:09.660their life. I want them to be fulfilled. It just wasn't with me and it won't be with me,
00:55:14.760but I still want that for them. Well, brother, I appreciate you, man. We had some good questions
00:55:19.840today. We got a lot more. I think we only got through four or five, but hopefully that gave
00:55:23.540some depth to some of the questions that got brought up. Uh, guys, if you want more information
00:55:28.580about what we're doing, like for example, you know, we talked about your son, not talking with
00:55:33.060you. We talked about, um, why we avoid doing difficult things or things that we know that
00:55:38.560need to be done. We talked about struggling with feeling weak if you ask for help. And then we
00:55:43.700talked about recovering from somebody who's breached some level of trust with you. These
00:55:50.020are conversations that we have every day inside the Iron Council. And it's so beneficial to have
00:55:55.780the thousand plus guys that are in the Iron Council, but it's also beneficial to have the
00:56:00.640five to eight to 10 guys that you're going to be working very, very closely with. Because when you
00:56:05.380have these things come up, you can talk with someone who has new ideas, new perspectives,
00:56:10.400new ways of looking at things that you hadn't seen before. So check it out. If you go to
00:56:15.400orderofman.com slash iron council, you can get enrolled with us and we'll get you hooked up with
00:56:20.920a coach that's going to work with you for the first several weeks and then get you on board
00:56:24.940into a battle plans or a battle team, excuse me. So check that out again, orderofman.com slash
00:56:29.520iron council. Sean, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for stepping in for Kip today. Thanks for your
00:56:33.760words of wisdom and for your friendship you know we've been friends for a long time and it means a
00:56:38.100lot that you believe in what we're doing and support what we're doing but also the conversations
00:56:42.240and the talks that we've had and i know you'll always be there um if i need something as long
00:56:46.800as i don't trust otherwise you're out all good no grace whatsoever all right guys uh hope you
00:56:56.760enjoyed it we'll be back on friday until then go out there take action and become the man you
00:57:00.940thank you for listening to the order of man podcast you're ready to take charge of your
00:57:06.440life and be more of the man you were meant to be we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com