Order of Man - Survival, Bushcraft, and Emergency Preparedness

00:00:00.000 Although the likelihood of us facing a life and death survival situation or natural disaster is

00:00:05.600 lower than it's ever been, there's value in learning how to deal with these potentially

00:00:10.740 devastating life events. Today, I'm joined by my friend, MMA fighter and survivalist,

00:00:16.400 Josh Tyler, to talk about his latest experience in a 21-day survival challenge,

00:00:21.700 the skill sets we'll need to survive, some of the biggest threats to our safety and security,

00:00:26.280 and how to survive emergencies, natural disasters, and dangerous encounters.

00:00:31.240 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:36.160 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily

00:00:42.160 deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:49.460 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:00:54.860 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the

00:01:00.100 founder of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. It's my goal to give you the

00:01:04.640 conversations and tools and resources and guidance and direction that you need in your life to become

00:01:10.540 a better and more capable father, husband, business owner, community leader, and just a better man

00:01:16.280 in general. And so we've got these conversations on the podcast. We're answering questions on our Ask

00:01:21.820 Me Anything episode every Wednesday. And then of course, we've got our Friday field notes, which is

00:01:26.800 some thoughts and ideas of things I've been thinking about from throughout the week. So we've got a

00:01:32.580 powerful show lined up for you today with a good friend of mine and somebody who's been instrumental

00:01:36.320 in helping develop some of the experiences that we run for men and for boys as well. Before I get into

00:01:43.040 that, I do want to make some very quick announcements. Number one is Origin has their immersion camp

00:01:49.800 coming up August 25th through September 1st. If you go to originmain.com slash order camp,

00:01:57.960 originmain.com slash order camp, you can get signed up. I'll be out there. Kip Sorensen,

00:02:02.700 my co-host for Wednesday's Ask Me Anythings will be out there. Matthew Arrington, who partners with me

00:02:08.820 on our events will be out there. And of course the entire Origin team, and I'm sure much of Echelon front,

00:02:14.660 Jocko Willink, Leif Babin, JP Donnell, Dave Burke, and some of the others will be there as well.

00:02:18.920 Again, originmain.com slash order camp. I actually think that's all I have by way of

00:02:25.400 announcements. So we'll just get right into the discussion today. Again, I'm joined by my friend,

00:02:30.060 Josh Tyler, who I consider to be one of the most capable men that I know. He's an MMA fighter.

00:02:36.260 He's a survivalist and a man who knows a ton about how to keep himself alive in some of the most

00:02:42.460 challenging and dangerous encounters that some of us may face. But he's also been, like I said

00:02:48.540 before, instrumental in creating some unique experiences with our events that we run for men

00:02:54.000 and boys and has personally helped me just become more equipped to be able to deal with some of these

00:03:00.060 uncertainties that we will eventually face, both physically, mentally, and emotionally.

00:03:05.540 Uh, he's also somebody who looks for difficult situations and thrusts himself into those

00:03:12.640 environments willingly so that he can make himself more capable and proficient as a man. So guys take

00:03:18.520 some notes today and enjoy my conversation with Josh Tyler. Josh, what's going on, brother? Thanks

00:03:25.020 for joining me on the show today. Hey man, happy to be here. Yeah. Sounds like you had a couple of

00:03:29.240 little mishaps this morning though. Yeah. You know, uh, things happen as they do. Um, had a little,

00:03:35.980 little truck issue. We, we blew a, blew a coolant hose on the way in the work. So I had to,

00:03:42.080 had to call my buddies and come grab me. So that'll be a fun little, little bit of work to, uh, sort out

00:03:46.740 later on today. But you know, this was, this is something, man, I know we've been trying to link up

00:03:51.520 on the podcast for a while. So it's like, I don't want to keep kicking this can down the road,

00:03:55.720 you know? Well, and there's always something that's going to come up, right? Yeah.

00:03:59.200 So you got to make it work. Yep. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's the thing you roll with

00:04:02.820 the punches and you, you know, you make, you make the best out of what you have. So, you know,

00:04:07.600 it's not the ideal situation. I wasn't able to get my son to the babysitter. He's, he's here. So

00:04:12.940 if you hear some crying, how old is your son? I think I heard him a little bit ago. How old is your

00:04:17.000 son? He just turned one. So he's our second. Um, I've got a little girl who's four and a half. Um,

00:04:24.960 so just the two of them and, and believe me, that is plenty. I don't know how you do it

00:04:28.760 with as many as you have, but I don't either. Some days just kind of seem like a blur, but we

00:04:33.080 make it work. That's awesome. It is. It's a good time, man. Well, I've, I've appreciated our

00:04:37.800 friendship over the past, I don't know, two, three years now. And of course what you're doing. And

00:04:41.660 then you've come and led some events with us regarding, uh, some survival stuff, which is

00:04:45.220 really what I wanted to talk about, uh, with you today. Cause I know a lot of guys find value in that.

00:04:49.420 And I think it's advantageous. It's beneficial to know, even if you're not like a

00:04:53.000 quote unquote survival guy, which I wouldn't consider myself one. I think there's a lot of

00:04:57.420 lessons to be learned that, that are very applicable in ordinary everyday life as well.

00:05:02.300 Oh yeah. Well, and, and man, I, I don't know that I would even consider myself a, a survival guy. I

00:05:08.380 mean, I, I would say I'm more of a, more of a hobbyist, you know, there's, there's dudes out

00:05:12.580 there that have made a lifetime out of studying bushcraft and survival and that sort of thing.

00:05:17.600 And I'm, you know, it's something that I've been interested in pretty much ever since I started

00:05:21.980 reading books like the hatchet and my side of the mountain and that sort of thing. Um, and it's

00:05:27.360 just, you know, in the past, uh, probably eight years that I've been able to actually immerse myself

00:05:32.720 and start really training and learning that, but it's fascinating. And there's so many aspects of

00:05:38.740 it that I think carry over into life, um, that it's super valuable. Yeah. I mean, I just think the

00:05:45.000 ability to adapt and improvise and overcome and look for unique little situations and fixes for

00:05:51.480 circumstances in which you find yourself could be something that you can use on a date could be

00:05:56.380 something that you can use when your car breaks down on the side of the road. Uh, it could be

00:06:01.160 something at work that you need, that you've got a task or a project that you need to figure out a

00:06:06.660 creative solution for. I just think it's really applicable that way. No, it absolutely is. And I mean,

00:06:11.680 really survival, what it amounts to it's, it's, it's simply the art of not dying. Right. Um,

00:06:17.180 and, and in order to do that, you have to be problem solving and you need to have some skills,

00:06:22.160 right? You can't, you're probably not going to be incredibly successful if you know nothing about

00:06:27.560 survival. Right. But you know, you can read all the books, you can practice all the stuff,

00:06:32.500 you can have all everything in your back pocket. But if you don't know which skill to employ when

00:06:38.680 and know how to think outside of the box to, to solve these particular problems,

00:06:44.960 because every situation is going to be unique. You know, every time you go out into the woods,

00:06:48.940 um, there's always going to be different circumstances. And so for me, the, the challenge,

00:06:55.140 what I find fascinating is it's always different. It's always new. It's much like,

00:07:00.100 much like stepping into the cage and getting into a fight. You know, every fight is different.

00:07:04.660 Every opponent is different and you can have all the skills and all the training, but you have to

00:07:08.900 employ them in the, in the correct way at the right time. Um, and sometimes you have to make

00:07:13.620 stuff up as you go along, you encounter things that you haven't even trained for. And then you

00:07:18.720 just, you got, you got to make it work. Right. Well, what are some of the common, common things we

00:07:24.320 ought to be aware of that maybe we might find ourselves in? Cause there's, there's, even though

00:07:29.100 every situation is different, there's probably some reoccurring trends that people find themselves

00:07:32.820 in and need to be able to overcome and get through. Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean,

00:07:37.960 really you have to look at survival is what's going to kill me first. Like what is my immediate

00:07:44.140 threat? Um, and, and, and again, that depends on your situation, but if you kind of work backwards

00:07:49.900 from that, then you have, you have a framework to, to address the issues. Right. So by way of example,

00:07:57.260 if, if it's, you know, zero degrees out and I'm in, in the woods and I have, you know, nothing but

00:08:05.500 my underwear on, my concern in that moment is not going to be what am I going to eat? Right. Right.

00:08:11.480 Right. Food is not, food is, is, is very, very far down the road in that scenario. Right. So generally

00:08:17.640 speaking, you know, there, there's a rule of threes that, that is, um, pretty, pretty consistent

00:08:23.700 throughout survival. Um, generally people say, you know, you have, uh, three minutes without oxygen,

00:08:30.740 you've got three hours without some sort of shelter. Um, you have three days without water,

00:08:37.480 three weeks without food. And you can, you can tack on a couple of things to that. You could say,

00:08:43.040 um, you, you only have three seconds without security. So, you know, for you guys that have

00:08:48.840 been in the military, obviously you got about three seconds in a gunfight that if you don't find

00:08:53.100 some kind of cover, um, you're in trouble, right. Or neutralize that threat. And then you can go

00:08:59.100 completely to the opposite end of the spectrum and you can say roughly about three months without

00:09:04.260 some kind of companionship before people start to mentally lose it. Um, and so that's just kind of a,

00:09:10.820 a generic, uh, way of, of, of addressing again, what's going to kill you first. Right. So it's like,

00:09:16.380 well, okay, no one's shooting at me. So my security is fine. All right. Next is, well,

00:09:21.940 am I breathing is, you know, am I underwater? Cause again, if I'm underwater, I don't need to

00:09:26.740 worry about getting warm. I need to worry about getting air. Right. Right. But I think a lot of

00:09:31.260 that stuff is, some of that stuff's kind of obvious, right? Because it should be, it should

00:09:35.180 be. But I also think there's little nuanced situations where somebody may be in, uh, in the

00:09:41.380 desert, for example, and feel relatively warm. And so they're like, well, I don't need to worry about

00:09:47.280 shelter. I need to worry about food. And then, you know, the sun drops and all of a sudden you drop

00:09:51.640 20, 30, 40 degrees in temperature and you're in a bad way. Oh, you're done. You you're in,

00:09:57.300 you're in big, big trouble. And that's, that is what people don't realize is, you know, we're,

00:10:01.640 we're used to all the modern conveniences. And if you have that stuff on you where then,

00:10:07.680 then that's great. But you know, I like to plan for the worst case scenario. And so we're accustomed

00:10:12.520 to like, Oh, if I need to make a fire, I'll just go grab some newspaper and a lighter, maybe some

00:10:17.500 lighter fluid, you know, and just go for it. It's like, well, that's cool. But you don't have that

00:10:21.960 right now. Right. It was funny. Cause I was in, uh, I went to sportsman's warehouse the other day.

00:10:26.500 And as I walked in the doors right there at the front was this was firewood, but it was all bundled

00:10:32.980 and it was like perfectly cut and spliced. And then it was packaged in cardboard. I just,

00:10:38.640 I got kind of a chuckle because just the fact that you would buy firewood in that, in that form

00:10:45.840 just goes to show like how comfortable we are. And, and quite honestly, maybe even a little

00:10:52.580 pathetic we are. Yeah. I mean, we, we live, we live in a day where we want every convenience and

00:10:58.640 obviously, and that's probably a podcast in and of itself. We're, we're, we're, we're so

00:11:04.560 accustomed to being comfortable in every aspect of our lives that anytime there's a slightest bit

00:11:11.520 of discomfort, people freak out. And then we have a very strong aversion to that in society.

00:11:17.300 Um, but yeah, I mean, you can buy your firewood pre-bundled, pre-cut, just ready to go, you know,

00:11:22.300 throw a match on it and it's, and it's ready. But you're going back to what you need to be thinking

00:11:28.080 about is the preparation, right? So not only do I need to be thinking ahead and like, oh yeah,

00:11:33.560 I should probably have a fire. Well, in order to do that, I have to gather all my resources.

00:11:38.200 You know, I have to find a good location to build a shelter. Um, and, and, and so that priority of

00:11:44.340 needs, right. Um, generally speaking is going to be shelter and warmth, right? Cause like I said,

00:11:49.120 you only have about three hours of exposure depending on weather conditions and, and a lot of other

00:11:54.240 factors before hypothermia sets in. Um, and, and the other thing people don't consider whether it

00:12:00.880 be hypothermia, whether it be dehydration, whether it be hunger is, you know, yes, you've had three

00:12:07.220 hours, three days, three weeks, but as, as you, as you step into those longer lengths, you deteriorate

00:12:14.780 really quickly, right? So it's like, I don't want to wait till day three of D of not having anything to

00:12:21.220 drink before I start trying to solve that solution. Right. Right. Well, you just lose your energy and

00:12:26.140 you don't have any calories in you and, and, and your ability to think clearly, and then you're

00:12:30.480 compromised emotionally and, and mentally, and that creates its own little series of challenges as

00:12:36.820 well. And it makes it much more difficult to address. You almost need to anticipate. It sounds

00:12:41.400 like a lot of these things that might eventually come up. Yeah. So, uh, again, it's, it's addressing the

00:12:46.960 immediate threat, whatever that is, but then it's, then it's thinking ahead. And, and that's what I

00:12:51.160 really like about survival is, you know, when you're, when you're out in the wilderness and you

00:12:56.940 have to provide for your own livelihood and, and, and keep yourself alive in some way. Um, you know,

00:13:03.360 you, you don't worry about some of the other nonsensical things that don't really matter. A lot of the

00:13:07.780 stuff really fades away as far as like, you know, what celebrity is doing this, you know, what they wore,

00:13:13.920 um, what bathroom people are using, all that stuff really becomes very, um, very minor in the grand

00:13:23.340 scheme of things when you're like, okay, man, well, how, where am I going to find water? Where am I

00:13:27.360 going to find food? Cause I'm starting to get hungry. And so, you know, you, you, that I love the

00:13:33.320 purity of it. Right. And I think that that's something that we, um, as a society, even as men have,

00:13:39.580 a lot of us have lost touch with, um, is that very natural state of, of, you know,

00:13:46.060 that primitive state that we, that we came from. Yeah. I mean, I, I would agree with that. I think

00:13:51.780 very, very few of us are willing to put ourselves in these situations voluntarily and that's what you

00:13:57.220 have to do, right? Because nobody's going to thrust you into that situation. The likelihood of you having

00:14:01.940 to be in a life or death survival situation is probably significantly lower than it's ever been in

00:14:07.460 the history of mankind. And so a lot of these people, including myself, I'm sure in a lot of

00:14:12.840 ways are very, very unprepared for some small chance that this might actually happen, but I still think

00:14:19.660 it's worthy of pursuing and at least taken into consideration. Oh, absolutely. Well, and the other

00:14:25.040 thing too, is this, if you've never practiced it, right? If you've, if you've never actually gone out

00:14:29.800 and done it again, despite what you've done in your backyard, um, what you've read, what, what videos

00:14:35.840 you've watched, uh, you know, if you've never gone out and spent a weekend, spent a week, you know,

00:14:40.800 however long actually doing that stuff, the chances of you being able to implement it when it really

00:14:47.080 counts is, is relatively small. I think we, we, we, we're notorious for overestimating our abilities

00:14:54.880 in things. You know, I mean, I, I think it's a, a bit of a defense mechanism for us, you know, and for our

00:15:00.900 ego, it's like, no dude, I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm pretty strong. I'm pretty athletic. I can,

00:15:04.860 I could beat somebody up. I could win a fight if I had to, if I really had to. And it's like,

00:15:10.820 man, that, that that's not the way it works. You know, just because you really want to bench

00:15:16.800 press 500 pounds, you know what I mean? Doesn't mean you could just throw that on the bar and,

00:15:21.480 and just out of sheer anger, make that happen. It doesn't mean it won't crush you under the weight

00:15:27.320 of that 500 pounds. Right. Right. But for some reason with a lot, with, with, with fighting,

00:15:32.560 um, people tend to think that, and even with survival, people tend to think that they're

00:15:36.660 just like, Oh man, if, if the world ends tomorrow, I'm just going to run up in the woods and, uh,

00:15:40.800 live off the land. And it's like, dude, do you know how hard that is? I mean, do you have any

00:15:45.400 concept of how difficult that would actually be? And, and, and honestly for myself, I didn't realize

00:15:52.980 and didn't really fully appreciate that until I had the opportunity to do a survival challenge,

00:15:58.280 um, on a TV show. We were out in the wilderness for 21 days and it's like, man, this is, this is

00:16:04.900 brutal. And the only reason that that was even manageable is because we had people working

00:16:11.120 together. You know, we, we had small groups, small teams of three or four and that made it manageable.

00:16:16.020 But to try and do that solo, there's probably, there's probably like a dozen people in the

00:16:22.800 modern world. I bet that have the requisite skills that could actually do that. You know

00:16:28.260 what I mean? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, working together as a team can, can be overstated. I

00:16:33.820 mean, it's, it's critical even from the perspective of, yes, there's, there's the skills that you

00:16:38.200 guys have collectively, but like you said, that companionship, there's a lot to be said for

00:16:43.020 the camaraderie and the motivation and the morale of just having somebody in that, in that

00:16:49.840 situation with you. Yeah. Well, I mean, a perfect example, if anyone has seen the TV show alone

00:16:55.420 for, for the, for the most, you know, obviously they have people on there that just didn't have

00:17:00.460 the, the ability, um, to, to survive on their own or they, they had a run of bad luck. I mean,

00:17:06.320 you can't, that's just something that happens, right? They cut themselves or had an injury or

00:17:10.680 whatever, and they had to tap out. Um, and then, and then, you know, for the most, most of the people,

00:17:16.800 the hardest part was just simply being alone, being by yourself for that time. I mean, we're,

00:17:22.880 we're, we're tribal in nature, right? We're, we're social creatures. So we're not designed

00:17:28.160 to be alone for that, for, for any length of time. I mean, what is the, what is the ultimate

00:17:34.000 punishment that we, that we give people that are incarcerated? Right. Solitary, right, right.

00:17:39.580 Solitary confinement. I mean, that is, that is the pinnacle of, of punishment. Um, but I think

00:17:45.580 people, you know, it's, it's hard to recognize that because we're constantly surrounded by people

00:17:49.980 all the time. It's easy to say, man, I wish I could just get away from it all.

00:17:54.800 Well, it's interesting. I even think about this in a much smaller context, uh, running,

00:17:58.660 for example, I, in fact, I'm looking at my window here and there's this little

00:18:02.160 hill slash mountain that I run, uh, probably two to three times a week. And I can't even hardly run

00:18:10.000 it without having somebody blurring away on a podcast or music in my ears. Like, let alone,

00:18:16.280 it's crazy. It just, just even somebody else talking helps you get through that mentally,

00:18:20.980 but I've tried it without having any music, without having a podcast on just by myself.

00:18:26.060 And it is infinitely harder when it's just me, myself and I, and the thoughts that are trying

00:18:32.020 to get me through or to get me to actually stop doing what it is I'm doing.

00:18:35.840 Yeah, no, I mean, it, it is incredibly powerful. That's why so many people you see at the gym

00:18:40.740 with headphones on, right. Or, um, I, uh, I, I don't really have that luxury for myself because

00:18:49.220 my, my ears are so jacked up from wrestling that I can't actually insert any kind of ear.

00:18:54.880 Oh, really?

00:18:55.660 Yeah, they won't. It doesn't work. Um, which, which is fine. I actually, um, I actually very

00:19:02.760 much enjoy those moments, you know, of solitude. Like I, I need that. Cause I, I'm so inundated

00:19:09.220 with information that for me that, that actually helps. Um, but, but there's obviously a limit to

00:19:15.560 it as well. Right. Where it's like, well, that's cool for a, you know, for a one hour run or maybe

00:19:21.240 a really long excursion, but it's like, I couldn't do that. There's no way I could do that for two days.

00:19:25.940 You know what I mean? Like I, it would be tough. Um, but it is interesting, you know, and I, but I

00:19:31.920 just touching on that, I think there is a ton of value, not every time you do it, but just on

00:19:38.920 occasion knowing that, Hey, this is going to suck. I'm going to hate it. This is going to make it

00:19:44.260 infinitely harder, but I'm going to do this without, you know, some of the, some of the

00:19:49.180 conveniences, um, some of the amenities, right. I'm going to do it and I'm going to just push through

00:19:54.680 and see where I find myself. I think that again, going back to survival and a lot of other,

00:20:00.780 these ways we challenge ourselves. I think that there's so much value into occasionally,

00:20:05.580 not every time, but doing things the hard way for the sake of doing it the hard way and seeing,

00:20:11.900 man, what, what, what kind of depths have I, have I plumbed? What have I, what, what do I unlock in

00:20:17.700 my psyche when I do that? Do you know what I mean? Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think it's a great way to

00:20:23.020 unlock some deficiencies in your life as well and, and help you realize where you fall short

00:20:28.460 and then shore those areas up. Because the last thing I want to ever have happen is for me to be

00:20:33.720 in a situation where I need to know a skill, whether it's how to defend myself or how to use a firearm or

00:20:40.200 how to treat a wound or survive a natural disaster. And that be the very first time I've ever exposed to

00:20:47.200 that sort of hardship. Yeah, no, I mean that, that, that's terrifying, you know, and that's,

00:20:51.960 that's just this general idea of being self-reliant. Right. And it's like, well, no one can know

00:20:58.500 everything. However, um, the more things that you could be comfortable with and well-versed in,

00:21:04.740 then the more valuable and more, the more of an asset you will be. And then the other thing that,

00:21:10.160 that affords you the opportunity to do is go out and do more stuff. Right. I mean,

00:21:15.400 the thing that I really like about having some survival skills is, you know, I don't have to

00:21:21.740 bring, you know, an entire truckload of stuff in order for me to go out camping. Right. You know

00:21:27.340 what I mean? Right. Um, and, and, and the more I learn, the better I get, the less I have to bring.

00:21:32.260 I mean, I've got buddies and guys that I'm learning from and mentoring under that can go out with

00:21:36.400 literally nothing but the clothes on their back and then, and could survive indefinitely, you know? Um,

00:21:42.840 and, and, and again, they have dedicated a lifetime to, to cultivating those skills,

00:21:48.580 but it's like, man, that's, that is empowering. You know, like I don't need a knife. I don't need

00:21:53.920 any string. I don't need a filtration device. I don't need a tent. I don't need this. I don't need

00:21:59.480 that. I have the skills and the know-how that I can make. I can craft any tool that I need out of

00:22:06.880 just what I find around me. And to me, I think that's like, you know, that's obviously the

00:22:11.540 pinnacle. Um, well, I guess my question with that though, is what is it that would drive an

00:22:17.280 individual like that to pursue that? Because I look at it in my life a little bit more pragmatically

00:22:23.000 in that I've got four kids, I've got a business, I've got this, I've got that. And for me to be able

00:22:28.320 to run out into the wilderness and learn everything I can about surviving my own is not,

00:22:32.880 not very practical. Right. So what is it that drives these guys? I mean, you're always going

00:22:39.060 to have your obsessive people. Sure. Sure. But I'm curious what, what their take is on it.

00:22:44.380 Well, in, in talking with them, I think a lot of it is a lot of it is actually for posterity,

00:22:49.880 right? Where like these are skills that were once, you know, integral to human survival that have now

00:22:57.640 almost completely faded away. You know, I mean, most people in your, in, in, in the general

00:23:05.340 population could not get a fire started without a lighter. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um,

00:23:11.360 and we've come a long way from clanging rocks together to hope, hopefully make a spark. Right.

00:23:17.280 Um, and, and so I think a lot of these guys are, are passionate about not letting those skills,

00:23:21.700 you know, uh, go away. I think that's part of it. And, and, and I think the other thing is they're

00:23:27.740 just passionate about that, that thing much in the same way that someone is super jazzed up about

00:23:33.940 fantasy football or someone might be, you know, just super obsessive about BJJ, you know, whatever,

00:23:41.600 whatever the, your, your cup of tea is, you know, you're always going to have those zealots,

00:23:45.800 but I think those are the driving factors for those guys. Yeah. And I, and I like guys like this too,

00:23:50.640 because it's, it's you guys that show us what's possible, right? It's if we didn't have

00:23:56.080 individuals who were so dedicated to their craft, whatever that craft was, then we wouldn't nearly

00:24:02.500 be able to push the boundaries and learn as much as we possibly could without those types of

00:24:06.680 individuals. Yeah, no, I mean, there, you have to have, you know, experts, right? I mean, we,

00:24:13.160 we wouldn't function if everybody knew a little bit of everything, we'd all just be terrible at

00:24:18.220 everything. Right. And so, you know, I think it's up to each person to find something you kind of owe

00:24:25.160 it to the people around you. And it's like, Hey, if you've got a knack for this, then, you know,

00:24:29.440 explore it, develop it, cultivate it. That way you can, you can be that guy, you know what I mean?

00:24:35.600 Whatever, whatever your, your thing is. Right. Um, and we'd all don't have to be the same guy. We all

00:24:41.140 don't have to be firearms experts. We all don't have to be fitness gurus. We all don't have to be

00:24:46.220 psychologist, whatever, like each person could be their own thing. Um, and in, in a society,

00:24:51.940 even in a small circle, they all have their place. Yeah, definitely. Well, let me ask you this. What

00:24:58.520 are some skills that at a basic or foundational level that we should all consider developing

00:25:05.260 with regards to survival, bushcraft, et cetera? Yeah. I think number one for me is, is fire making,

00:25:13.340 um, because so many other pieces are contingent around that. Right. So if, if I can make fire,

00:25:21.700 I can stay warm, I can cook, I can purify water. Right. Um, I, I can also, I can also maintain some

00:25:32.000 level of safety. Right. If, if I'm in a area where there's animals and that sort of thing,

00:25:37.580 fire works really well as a deterrent, you know? Um, so, so knowing how to make a fire and again,

00:25:43.320 because we said that the mother nature exposure is what's probably going to kill you the fastest

00:25:48.560 anyway. Sure. Right. So if I'm freezing to death, I don't, I, it doesn't matter if I can't,

00:25:54.380 if I can't boil water or whatever, um, or have food. So I think fire making, um, as, as primitive

00:26:01.920 as you can, you know, take the time to learn. Right. Um, I mean, even for myself, it's like,

00:26:08.740 yeah, I can make a fire with a couple of sticks, but unless I'm just practicing that skill,

00:26:14.660 if I had to, and I had a lighter, I would use that every time. There's no reason not to.

00:26:19.300 Yeah. That's, what's funny. Cause people talk about, you know, what do you put in your,

00:26:22.620 your bolt bag or your bug out bag, your survival bag. And they're talking about these fire starting

00:26:26.960 kits. It's like, well, where's your lighter? Oh, right. I think a lot of these guys, I think a lot

00:26:31.320 of these guys sometimes try to make it harder than it has to be. Like you should train for the,

00:26:36.380 like you said, the most difficult situation, but put yourself in a position where you don't

00:26:42.640 necessarily have to rely on those skills in the actual experience itself.

00:26:48.600 Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think sometimes we, we miss the forest for the trees, right? Where it's

00:26:56.600 like, you're so focused on like, Oh man, I gotta have my, I gotta have my char cloth. I gotta have my

00:27:01.880 flint striker. I gotta have this and this and that, you know, my ferro rod. Um,

00:27:06.380 and yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, you, you want to have redundancies because sometimes,

00:27:11.840 you know, sometimes things fail. Sometimes the conditions don't work right. Sometimes,

00:27:16.680 I mean, lighters break, they run out of fuel, right? But if, but I mean, if it's a life or

00:27:22.100 death situation, I'm not going to sit there and take the time to build a bow drill when I can just

00:27:27.720 in a couple of flicks of lighter, get it. But if I found myself in a situation without a lighter

00:27:33.360 and I didn't know how to bushcraft, make a fire, man, you're, you're, you're out of luck. You're,

00:27:40.480 you're going to freeze to death, you know, or you're going to have to drink water that isn't

00:27:46.540 purified. Right. That could kill you or make you extremely sick. Right. Or now, whatever, if I,

00:27:52.720 if I managed to somehow kill something and have food, well, now I have to eat it raw because I

00:27:57.540 can't cook it because I don't know how to make a fire. And now again, I'm opening myself up to all

00:28:02.280 kinds of diseases and, and bad stuff that will probably without medical attention end up killing

00:28:08.680 you. Right. All right. So we got fire making. What else would you include in that list?

00:28:14.080 So, so next beyond fire making, um, would be, would be shelter making. And, and in terms of priority,

00:28:21.580 um, again, depending on circumstances, I, I would actually build my shelter before I do my fire

00:28:30.720 just in, I mean, a lot of that depends on conditions where I am, what the weather is

00:28:35.180 like. Um, and, and it was interesting. I saw this on the, on the survival show that people,

00:28:40.520 people are some of the other groups, which is jump right into fire. And it's like, Hey dude,

00:28:45.300 we're in British Columbia. It rains nonstop. Um, so now you're going to have to have someone

00:28:51.680 dedicated to just like monitoring that fire in this torrential downpour. While now you decide to

00:28:58.580 make some kind of covering so it doesn't get burnt out or it does get put out rather. Right.

00:29:03.840 So, you know, the, the, the shelter, I think having, having something you should keep things dry

00:29:09.260 is going to be really important. If you're in the desert, that's probably not, you know what I mean?

00:29:15.020 So again, it depends on where you are. Well, and I think the shelter too, will, will

00:29:20.400 isolate and channel the heat where it needs to be as well too. Right. So, so it makes it that much

00:29:25.840 more efficient. Yeah. Well, and, and even if you don't have a fire and, and this is something that

00:29:30.460 you, that I see a lot and you know, I was guilty of myself because of my, my understanding of shelter

00:29:36.420 was basically just, and when you were a kid, you build a fort, right? Sure. And it's like,

00:29:40.380 let's throw some sticks and tie them. And you know, now I've got this awesome fort. Well,

00:29:44.360 the difference between a fort and a shelter is the shelter is intended to keep in that warmth.

00:29:50.540 Right. Um, so I don't want it to be head height. I don't need to be able to stand up in it. I don't

00:29:57.100 even really need to be able to sit up in it. Um, depending on whether it's long-term or short-term

00:30:02.360 and let's face it, most survival situations are going to be only a few days. No one's surviving

00:30:08.020 for months at a time. Right. You're not building a log cabin out there. So, I mean, you, yeah,

00:30:13.480 hopefully, and if you are, then man, you don't need to listen to me because you're pretty squared

00:30:18.420 away. You probably know more stuff than I do. I mean, some of those guys that build log cabins

00:30:22.420 out of the primitive tools or no tools at all, or I've seen like Adobe huts, these guys are making

00:30:26.640 with, with no tools. It's absolutely, you, you know what I'm talking about, right? Oh yeah. No,

00:30:31.840 I've seen absolutely incredible. Oh dude, it's fascinating. And again, I think that's more of

00:30:37.880 because they enjoy it because they love it. Right. You know what I mean? It's like,

00:30:42.000 they don't need to do that. Well, I think the trap we might fall into is believing that,

00:30:46.900 that we ought to do that when in all reality, I think the considerations are, is this practical?

00:30:53.780 So building a, like a tree hut would be cool for my nine-year-old boy, but not very practical for

00:31:00.800 surviving in the wilderness. And then also weighing the cost, right? There's a, in life,

00:31:06.580 specifically in the context of survival, but in life, there is a cost associated with every action.

00:31:13.440 And in survival, the cost is the calories and the energy burned in order to accomplish whatever

00:31:19.700 task you're engaged in. Yep. But, but in, in life, you know what I mean? We only have so much

00:31:26.120 time in every day to dedicate to certain things. Right. And so it's like, what's my ROI on,

00:31:33.120 you know, spending four hours a day learning, learning survival stuff, right? Unless that's how

00:31:39.940 you make your living, probably not the most, not the best use of your time, unless that just brings

00:31:46.000 you so much joy that that is your passion. Right. Um, so it's, it's, you know, trying to manage like,

00:31:52.620 how much time do I dedicate to this so that I know it and it's actually usable, but I'm, I'm also,

00:31:59.700 you know, not dropping the ball in other areas. You know what I mean? Cause you still have to go to

00:32:04.680 work. You still have to spend time with your wife and your kids. You still have to,

00:32:07.840 you do all these other things. Right. And that, that is the hard part where it's like,

00:32:11.900 yeah, man, I'd love to be an expert in every single thing that I find interesting.

00:32:18.320 Well, yeah, I mean, that'd be nice, but I think we've really got a way, like, are you going to be

00:32:23.180 the, the, the boy in, in hatchet, for example, cause you brought that book up earlier? Probably,

00:32:28.560 probably not. Like if you get in a plane crash, you're probably just going to die.

00:32:31.620 Yep. Yeah. But could you be stuck on the side of a road where there's not a whole lot of traffic for,

00:32:37.700 for a night? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That could happen. So you better be prepared for those

00:32:42.880 likelihoods. Right. And, and, and that's the thing. It's like, well, okay. Um, you know,

00:32:48.660 I'm snowed in, I'm stuck. I've got however much of a tank of gas, maybe I can ration that out,

00:32:54.820 you know, by turning my car off, turning it on, letting it, letting it run for, for 20 minutes

00:33:00.020 and get the heat up. That way it's staying somewhat warm in there, but eventually that's going to run out

00:33:05.600 as well. And now I need some other alternative means of warmth. Right. And that's where that

00:33:10.960 fire making skill comes into hand. Um, that's where really the front end preparation probably

00:33:17.600 plays a bigger part where in the back of your vehicle, you've got blankets and you've got extra

00:33:23.100 snow clothes and, and the thing that you need. I mean, if you have enough gear conceivably,

00:33:29.220 unless you're in just the, the absolute worst of conditions, you're probably going to be okay for

00:33:35.680 a while, you know, but if you, if you drove up in the mountains, um, in, in, as, as people in Utah

00:33:43.120 like to do, even in the winter in, in a, in a hoodie shorts and flip flops, um, and then all of a

00:33:49.500 sudden you've got to walk however far in the snow to get back. Well, guess what? You were very ill

00:33:55.280 prepared. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, but, but that can be taken to an extreme too. Cause I see some of

00:34:01.300 these guys and, and I think a lot of them are lying quite honestly, but you see these guys on

00:34:05.080 Instagram and Facebook and they, they do their, you know, they're like their pocket dump or, or what

00:34:09.480 stuff they carry around in their truck. I'm like, dude, you'd have to be driving around a semi truck

00:34:14.280 to have all of that stuff with you that you're pretending that you actually have on a regular basis.

00:34:19.380 Yeah. I mean, you only, you have to take everything on social media with a grain of salt.

00:34:24.520 Totally. I mean, I, I, I take whatever I see in social media for most people and, and generally

00:34:30.560 I divide that up by about half. Um, and depending on the person and how reliable. Yeah. That's

00:34:36.500 generous. Yeah. That's generous. Sometimes I divided by, by more. Um, and yeah, it's like

00:34:42.860 you can only, you can only pack so much stuff, right? What kind of stuff do you have in your

00:34:47.200 truck? Mostly. So I've got jumper cables. Um, I'll have extra pair of clothes. Um,

00:34:55.240 depend, you know, that it's generally weather dependent. So I've got, I've got tools. Um,

00:35:00.400 and then whatever kind of miscellaneous stuff. Now, if I'm, if I know I'm going somewhere

00:35:07.080 in the wilderness or where we're, where we're some, you know, cause right now I'm in society,

00:35:12.020 right? So I, all I need is cell phone coverage. Um, and I'm fine. Right. But if I know I'm going

00:35:17.300 somewhere a little bit more remote, then, then I'll beef that up. Right. And I'll throw in just some

00:35:23.080 survival stuff, probably a backpack with, um, with some of my kit, you know, a sleeping bag.

00:35:29.340 Um, I'll bring a water purification, you know, one of those little life short off things just to have.

00:35:34.880 Um, and, and, and if I'm really, really concerned, I'll actually throw in, um, some, some food

00:35:42.840 just, just to have, but it's, it's pretty rare. I mean, for myself, the only time I'm going out

00:35:49.220 someplace that remote is with the explicit intent, intent of camping, camping and, and practicing

00:35:56.120 skills. Right. In which case I'm bringing the stuff that I need anyway. So it's not as though

00:36:00.600 it's not, it's, it rarely is this, this huge swap out. Um, but I think for your vehicle, man,

00:36:06.360 just the, you know, coolant oil, um, some, some extra, what, you know, if you, if you maybe power

00:36:14.520 seer fluid, it's something like that, you know, and then, and then tools, if you need, you know,

00:36:19.820 I had a belt fly off the other day and thankfully I had, I had what I needed. I could put that back

00:36:23.940 on. You know what I mean? Sure. Um, if I didn't have any tools in there, it's like, well, you know,

00:36:29.780 man, now I'm going to be an hour late for work, uh, waiting for a tow truck to come or someone to pick

00:36:34.960 me up or whatever. So I think it's, I think it's, you know, survival. We, again, we, we look at it

00:36:41.880 in the confines of going out and, you know, in a plane crash, you know, or whatever, right.

00:36:47.920 Where we survive this. And now all we have is a hatchet to, to make do with. And that's so

00:36:52.780 unrealistic. I mean, survival is what, what are you most likely to encounter on a day-to-day basis?

00:36:58.780 I mean, we can, we can, we can take it a whole nother turn and it's like, well, man, you're more

00:37:05.660 likely to get mugged or robbed than you would be trying to survive a plane crash. So how crash,

00:37:12.860 how are you going to survive that physical encounter?

00:37:17.380 Man, let me hit the pause real quick. Uh, I want to talk with you about something that I think could

00:37:21.240 be a very, very valuable resource in your life. And one that I think more men would be better served,

00:37:27.300 uh, by if they were to band with us, uh, one of the biggest challenges that I think men face in

00:37:33.060 doing this over the past four years, uh, on their journey to improve themselves is, is really just

00:37:38.200 having to go at it alone. It can be done, no doubt, but there's just something powerful to be found in

00:37:43.440 banding together with other men. And that's where a brotherhood of like-minded men comes into play.

00:37:48.940 Now we call it the iron council. And through this system, we have helped thousands of men like you

00:37:54.700 tap into this powerful network. Uh, we've seen men salvage, devastated marriages, uh, reconnect with

00:38:00.860 their children in powerful ways, lose weight, gain confidence, which is a huge one, uh, develop

00:38:06.360 clarity and just generally make themselves into stronger, tougher, better, more capable men.

00:38:12.820 And we do this through our framework of communication and a proven system that's designed to push and test

00:38:20.880 men in ways that maybe they never have been in the past. So if you're interested in this, you want to

00:38:27.160 learn more about what we're doing, you want to be held accountable. You want to be challenged and

00:38:31.080 pushed, and you want to band with other men who are interested in the same things as you by way of

00:38:36.520 improvement, then head to order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron

00:38:42.360 council. You can learn more. You can lock in your spot and you can band with us. Do that after this

00:38:48.320 show for now, let's get back to the conversation with Josh. I've actually played some of that stuff out

00:38:54.740 in my mind. Like if I'm sitting there, for example, I was thinking about this the other day,

00:38:58.040 dinking around on my phone, like how easy would it be for somebody to walk up and, and, and rob me or

00:39:03.800 want to steal my car or whatever else it may be. And how would I defend myself in that situation?

00:39:07.980 So I'm like, I'm trying to think about, you know, medical kit I think would be important for me

00:39:12.620 because, you know, you can get in a minor car crash or, or a wreck or, you know, roll your ankle

00:39:18.620 or whatever it might be. Um, you might be faced with some sort of a violent encounter. So having a

00:39:23.420 firearm and knowing how to use it properly would be a value, things like that, where you start to

00:39:27.840 anticipate what could possibly go wrong and then start working yourself through the scenarios of

00:39:32.180 what you would do in that, in that situation. Yeah, no, that's, you're absolutely right. I mean,

00:39:37.420 truth be told, you know, aside from mechanical stuff, I think a first aid kit is probably the

00:39:42.840 most useful thing you could have on your person in terms of a vehicle. Right. Um, and, and, but

00:39:48.500 whatever the circumstances, I think it is important for us to, you know, not, not spend all our time

00:39:55.180 thinking of what if this, what if that, right? Cause you kind of, you're out of the moment,

00:39:59.720 right? You're daydreaming and you're not, you're, you're letting life pass you by and you're living

00:40:03.400 in this kind of fear-based state. But at the same time, it's absolutely worth considering,

00:40:07.920 considering, you know what I mean? Just taking stock of your situation and like, huh, I wonder what I

00:40:12.940 would do if this or if that, you know what I mean? And take a moment, take stock and then go about

00:40:19.160 your day. We could easily sit there and just dwell on all the scenarios and the possibilities we can

00:40:25.240 encounter. And it's like, well, man, are you even living your life at that point? So there's, there is,

00:40:30.080 there is a balance, but it's an important. And then I think for the people who are really,

00:40:36.000 you know, concerned about, well, what, what would I do? Then it's, well, go get some training.

00:40:43.140 There's all kinds of, of scenario-based training that one can get. I mean, I mean, even with,

00:40:49.020 with, with the order of man events that you guys are doing, you're essentially, you know,

00:40:53.520 a lot of the things are recreating certain scenarios, um, where people get to practice those

00:40:57.840 skills. And I think that that is absolutely invaluable because anything shy of that is just pure

00:41:03.460 conjecture. Yeah. Well, and a, and a lot of what we create with our events. And I imagine with,

00:41:08.800 with regards to survival and bushcraft and emergency preparedness is yes, the skillset itself,

00:41:14.820 but I, I believe that the best tool that you can utilize is your mind. And it's, it's, it's the

00:41:20.400 mindset of being able to adapt. It's the mindset of being able to be creative, to think on your toes,

00:41:27.780 to not freak out in the moment and keep yourself calm and level-headed. And, and you

00:41:33.440 can learn that in any situation. It doesn't have to be specifically set up for survival.

00:41:37.780 You can learn that in any training or scenario that you might come in contact with.

00:41:43.840 Yeah. That, and you're a hundred percent right. I mean, that really is what it comes down to.

00:41:48.140 There's so many people that, you know, were less skilled and probably shouldn't have survived

00:41:53.360 situations, but did. And people that had all the skills in the world and should have had no problem,

00:41:59.340 not survive. And, and, and, and a lot of that comes down to mindset and, you know, you don't have to

00:42:06.080 get dropped off on the top of a mountain and make your way down to learn how to, how to work through

00:42:12.340 problems. You can do that in a number of ways. And essentially it's just stress inoculation.

00:42:17.680 You find ways to push yourself to get uncomfortable and that can be in the gym, that can be on the mat,

00:42:23.800 that can be in a variety of ways. But if you, you know, put yourself in, in, in these scenarios,

00:42:30.800 um, and become accustomed to it, then when something actually happens, you're way better

00:42:36.780 equipped. You know what I mean? It's like, for me, it's like, well, I've been punched in the face

00:42:41.440 before. So if someone punches me in the face, I'm going to be okay. Unless they just completely

00:42:46.780 knock me out, but I'm not going to freak out and panic and like, Oh my gosh, what is this?

00:42:50.500 What is this red stuff leaking from my nose? Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Which

00:42:54.880 for, for a lot of people, they don't know what it's like to be in a physical altercation. They

00:42:59.920 don't know what it's like to push their body physically, you know, to go for a four hour run,

00:43:07.220 um, or whatever, right. To, to push the point of sheer exhaustion and complete collapse. They've

00:43:14.020 never done that. Most people have never been incredibly hungry. You know, we live in a world where

00:43:20.200 it's like, Oh, I'm kind of hungry. Will you run a McDonald's? Very few people, unless you've,

00:43:25.160 unless you've wrestled or done a combat sport, um, or been in the military or maybe just lived

00:43:31.220 in abject poverty, have you have, have gone days without eating before. Right. You know,

00:43:37.400 and not to say that that's something someone should do on the regular, but I mean, you know,

00:43:42.380 it's just purely fasting is, is a great way to, to push yourself, um, mentally and physically.

00:43:51.140 Well, and I think it also paints a more realistic picture of a situation you may find yourself in.

00:43:57.300 I was, I read this book or I don't know, listen to a podcast or something. I came across some

00:44:02.120 information and they had, uh, looked at situations, survival situations where people have died and

00:44:09.120 then other people have survived. And what they found out is that the people who were overly

00:44:12.820 pessimistic, they died. The people who are overly optimistic, they also died because they thought,

00:44:19.680 Oh, we'll be saved. So we don't have to do anything. It was those who were the most realistic,

00:44:23.740 not no overly negative, not overly positive about their situation that ended up surviving these

00:44:29.260 situations. But you can only be realistic and have a healthy perspective of the situation you find

00:44:36.060 yourself in. If you've already been in that situation to some degree. Yes. Yeah. If you've

00:44:41.820 experienced something similar, right? Cause you, otherwise you don't have a frame of reference,

00:44:46.080 right? You have nothing to go on. So if this is the absolute worst thing that you've ever experienced

00:44:51.620 in your life and woe is me, you know, I'm going to die any second. There's no hope I should just give

00:44:57.340 up. Then that's exactly what you're going to do. You're going to give up. You're going to quit.

00:45:00.220 You're going to die. Right. Um, again, if you have no frame of reference and you, you don't

00:45:05.960 understand the severity of the situation and you're like, Oh, it's fine. Everything is fine.

00:45:11.020 You know, I, any minute now the, the police are going to come and save me or, you know,

00:45:15.760 search and rescue is going to arrive or whatever it is like any minute now. And you keep telling

00:45:20.740 yourself that, well, there's only so many times you can be let down and proven wrong before you,

00:45:27.500 again, eventually abandon all hope and break, give up and die. And so, yeah, it's that, it's

00:45:33.120 that middle ground that I think is, is the best place to be, but that only comes from experience

00:45:39.200 in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. What was your motive for doing the, uh, their

00:45:44.920 survival show, the challenge? What, what show was it by the way? Uh, it's called ultimate ninja

00:45:49.040 challenge, which doesn't sound like it has anything to do with survival. Yeah. I'm like, wait,

00:45:53.900 what? You're like, wait, what? You're like, wait, so you're doing obstacle courses?

00:45:57.500 Um, no, you know, as soon as you say that, I think that was a shortcoming on their marketing

00:46:03.240 plan, but, um, essentially it was a survival challenge, um, where a bunch of people got

00:46:10.100 together for different reasons. They, they selected, uh, nine of us to go out into British

00:46:15.000 Columbia and essentially live out, um, some of the experiences that what the ancient ninja

00:46:23.340 would. Hmm. And most people don't connect the ninja with survival, but you have to think,

00:46:29.820 I mean, they were essentially modern day special forces having to live off the land to conduct

00:46:35.940 their espionage and their missions. Right. Um, well, in order to do that, you know, you're

00:46:40.240 not going to get, um, helicoptered into a location. You have to travel on foot. And so

00:46:45.380 to get from this village to the, you know, other faction, however many miles away, you're

00:46:52.560 going to have to live off the land and survive in order to do that. And so that was kind of

00:46:57.980 the premise of it. And, and the whole idea was all of us had, had our own motives for

00:47:04.380 being there, whether, whether we wanted to prove something to ourselves or, you know, seek

00:47:10.720 something out. Um, for me, it was, I found it very helpful where I was in my life at

00:47:18.800 that point, trying to figure out transitioning from a professional fighter to what else am

00:47:25.280 I going to do with my life? Cause I know I won't be able to fight forever, you know?

00:47:28.740 So what I felt like was going out and putting myself in this experience, being isolated in

00:47:35.320 the wilderness for a length of time, um, would challenge me in ways that I hadn't been

00:47:40.040 challenged before. And through that challenge, hopefully there would be some clarity. Um,

00:47:45.820 if that makes any kind of sense, I know it sounds kind of mystic and new agey a little

00:47:50.100 bit. No, I mean, did you find that, that you develop some of that clarity and did it help

00:47:54.820 you on that path? I mean, I really did. So I was kind of, I was kind of lost a little

00:47:59.920 bit. You know, I didn't know who I was because I'm, I'm realizing, you know, now with the family

00:48:03.980 and, and with all these other things that at some point my fighting career is going to

00:48:08.000 end. And when that happens, who am I? You know, cause I've, I've, I've been an athlete

00:48:14.380 my entire life. I wrestled in college and then transitioned into fighting and I've been

00:48:18.840 doing that for, for 10 years. And it's like, well, if I'm not that, who am I? And trying

00:48:25.220 to figure out, it's like, well, who do I become? Do I become Josh, the entrepreneur, this businessman?

00:48:30.500 Um, or do I continue to, to pursue and be Josh, the fighter? And, and the clarity came

00:48:37.040 where I don't really have to decide, you know? So going out there really showed me a lot of

00:48:42.980 my strengths and a lot of my weaknesses. It revealed things about myself that I didn't

00:48:46.940 know were actually there. It showed me things that I was capable of that I, like I said, I

00:48:52.620 didn't realize those were my strengths. Um, and that really helped with my identity and

00:48:58.220 it helped me to realize that it's like, a, I can be both, I can be both, you know, business

00:49:04.640 guy. And I can still, if I decide to take a fight and be a fighter, um, and, and live

00:49:09.980 in that realm if I want to. And I also realized that none in the grand scheme of things, it

00:49:15.180 doesn't really matter what I do in terms of my occupation does not determine who I am as

00:49:22.280 a person. That is just a facet of me. If that makes sense.

00:49:26.120 Yeah, it does. You're not, you're not wrapped, wrapped up in the title or the occupation.

00:49:31.580 You're, you're more in tune with just you as an individual, as a human being.

00:49:35.300 Yeah. And, and, and I think that that is, is something that a lot of us struggle with

00:49:40.060 in, in talking to other folks and even a few of the other cast members that, that seems

00:49:44.600 to be a pretty common thread that people, um, and men in particular really struggle with

00:49:50.660 because we, we pursue a career, you know, we spend a lifetime cultivating a skill

00:49:55.900 set and we all have to retire it one day. Um, and then, and then we kind of seem lost

00:50:03.220 and we, we don't know what to do with that. And I think that that is a, um, without that,

00:50:07.840 that becomes our purpose, right? That identity is our purpose. And when we lose that identity,

00:50:12.060 we lose that purpose and now we're lost and now we're, now we're up the creek without a paddle.

00:50:17.280 Yeah. I know a lot of guys that listen to this podcast and that are involved with us in some

00:50:21.660 way or are definitely feeling some of that. And I know I've felt that way in the past and just

00:50:26.700 exploring new things and putting myself in new situations and being exposed to new stimulus has

00:50:32.420 really helped me redefine who I am and how I show up and opened opportunities that frankly, I never

00:50:39.480 even knew existed. I mean, I think, you know, thinking about a podcast five years ago, I mean,

00:50:44.280 would have been the furthest thing on my mind. And yet I was willing to explore some of these

00:50:48.260 paths that I'd never walked before. Yeah. And, and, and I think the only way we can come to that

00:50:53.560 is through, you know, these really extreme experiences that we put ourselves through,

00:51:00.260 you know, for me, it was a problem of the spirit, right? I didn't know who I was. I didn't know my

00:51:06.300 value. I didn't, there's a lot of things I didn't know. Right. And I think, you know,

00:51:11.480 that's something that we all need to work on. Um, but it's very hard because in order to get there,

00:51:17.380 we have to circumvent the mind and the body, right? Um, cause they're, they're always there,

00:51:23.260 you know, we're mind, body and spirit and we, those things work in, in concert to make who we

00:51:28.580 are. Well, for me, you know, in order to actually touch on that, that spirit, that, you know,

00:51:35.640 inner part of who I am, I had to completely break down my body and I had to completely get my mind

00:51:41.280 out of the equation. Um, and going through a 21 day survival challenge is what it took in order to

00:51:49.760 get that, you know what I mean? It wasn't until this, I was completely thrashed until I could

00:51:55.060 actually start in here and be in tune with what was really inside of me. If that makes sense.

00:52:01.860 What were some of the challenges that you were exposed to that you had to,

00:52:05.200 had to complete or get through? So one of the, one of the first ones we had to do,

00:52:10.980 and if people want to watch this, I mean, there'll be spoilers here, but, um, you can,

00:52:15.920 it's, it's on discovery channel. You can, you can watch it on demand, um, online. It's called the

00:52:22.020 ultimate ninja challenge. But the first thing they did for us was they flew us in a helicopter and

00:52:26.760 dropped us off on the top of a mountain and then just said, wait, no, no determined time. They said,

00:52:33.580 be, you know, um, it was something like really cryptic and mystical, you know, a very Mr. Miyagi

00:52:41.380 type thing. You're like, what are we doing? It's so cryptic. I don't understand, you know,

00:52:46.840 and it's, it was something about, you know, the ninja must be, be able to, it was endurance is

00:52:53.400 what it was. It was like a ninja must be able to endure, wait here. And until the team comes to

00:53:00.100 pick you up, you're like, what does that mean? Is that two hours? Is that two days? Right. Is it

00:53:04.880 two weeks? You know? Um, and, and, and we were essentially confined to a very small space, um,

00:53:13.140 on this just completely barren rock. It's not like it's, you know, lush mountain with all kinds of

00:53:19.000 stuff. There was a glacial runoff lake and then rocks and that was it. That was it. And, you know,

00:53:27.620 we can look down in the Valley and you see trees and you see rivers and you see all this stuff.

00:53:31.860 And from a survival standpoint, you're like, well, that's where I need, I'm going down in there.

00:53:34.920 Right. Yeah. However, um, you know, because, because this was, you know, ninja, ninja school

00:53:43.100 development training, you know, there was parameters set on it. Um, that it's like, Nope,

00:53:48.160 you got to stay here. And so we just had to sit there and literally endure. And for, for one of

00:53:54.540 the guys, that was actually the hardest challenge of the entire thing was just to sit there and do

00:53:59.280 nothing. The unknown or the uncertainty. What, like, what was it? Or just a boredom? Well,

00:54:03.660 yeah. So a combination, the uncertainty was definitely a big part, but the, just being alone

00:54:09.660 with his thoughts was absolutely, he just one of those guys. I mean, he, he was actually a, um,

00:54:15.840 first responder to the nine 11, um, attack. Okay. So he's a fireman. And so he, he was there,

00:54:23.260 uh, when all that happened and, and part of, part of that, you know, attempt to rescue attempt and

00:54:29.580 that sort of thing, you know, he's sorting through the rubble and he comes across this

00:54:32.960 child's blanket. Um, and you know, that, that I think really, really hit him hard. And he actually

00:54:41.360 kept a piece of that with him. And, and, um, he's, he's, uh, actually fairly well known. He goes by

00:54:49.500 fireman Rob and he's done a ton of, um, marathons and triathlons in, in his fireman kit, um, for,

00:54:59.020 for charity, but he carried this blanket with him everywhere. And so seeing what he saw being

00:55:05.920 through what he had been through, the idea of just sitting alone with his thoughts was just pure

00:55:11.280 torture. Um, and, and, and I think again, a lot of us experienced that for, for a number of reasons,

00:55:18.240 you know, we don't want to be alone in our heads for any length of time. We got to have something

00:55:22.120 to do. And that was his, his coping mechanism was just stay busy, be always, you know, working out

00:55:27.400 or running or doing this or doing that or that project, um, kept him from actually having to

00:55:33.180 think about the things he didn't want to think about. And I think that that's something that a

00:55:38.020 lot of us probably do as a coping mechanism is we just pile up our schedules. So we never have any

00:55:44.040 downtime and that way it protects us from having to deal with the stuff that we probably

00:55:48.200 need to address. Um, yeah, that was the first, I mean, that was a, it was a hell of a way to set

00:55:54.200 up the thing. So we're like, what, what anybody in the military is like, dude, that's easy. We do

00:55:59.760 that all the time. Is that hurry up and wait mentality, hurry up and wait. Right. So we ended

00:56:05.100 up, we were out there for two days. We had to spend the night with no shelter, just, you know,

00:56:09.480 tucking up underneath some rocks. Oh, you were out there overnight on that, on that particular

00:56:13.700 challenge. Yeah. Um, with, you know, and granted there was no food to eat, um, because there was

00:56:20.900 nothing up there, but you know, we had just started. So that wasn't a huge factor at that time.

00:56:25.740 Sure. Um, so finally, just for no apparent reason whatsoever, the helicopter came back and picked us

00:56:32.260 up and then flew us to the next mission. And you know, what, what was particularly difficult

00:56:37.960 about the whole thing is no one ever explained to us really anything of what was going on. The only

00:56:45.340 information we got was this, the scroll that gave us instructions. I mean, what we signed up for was a

00:56:52.580 wilderness survival challenge, right. That had something to do with ninjas in some way, shape

00:56:58.660 or form. Okay. Yeah. Which we were, you know, we were really scratching our heads. Right. It's

00:57:03.100 interesting. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's like, well, whatever, man. I mean, ninjas are cool. I like,

00:57:07.080 I mean, I'm a martial artist, so, you know, I can appreciate that, but I, but I really wanted to

00:57:11.900 test myself in the survival realm. And so it was actually, you know, survival minus because

00:57:20.020 again, we had all these certain stipulations. So another, uh, another challenge that we had to do

00:57:26.020 is we, we had to carry a captive. Uh, we had to transport a captive through the woods to a particular

00:57:31.700 checkpoint. Um, and so this, this captive was just a carved wooden dummy that weighed a little over a

00:57:38.980 hundred pounds that we had to make sure didn't get beat up because you know, the, the scenario was

00:57:44.980 that they were wanted for questioning. Right. Okay. So, so the three of us had to haul this thing

00:57:49.980 through, you know, really dense, um, forest set up camp for the night. So we did a movement,

00:57:56.640 carrying it camped over the night and then we had to move again to this waterfall. And then we had to

00:58:02.940 find a way to lower the, lower the captive down the waterfall without getting beat to pieces. Um,

00:58:10.120 do that camp the next night and then, and then move it down the river the whole rest of the night. And,

00:58:17.720 and you know, it's, it's about 34, 36 degrees air temperature. And, and then we're confined to

00:58:26.380 moving down the river and this is glacial runoff. So it's just above freezing. So we're, and by the

00:58:32.600 way, it's pouring down raining the entire time. So we're just soaking wet the whole time. We're

00:58:36.220 doing this movement, trying to haul this stupid, awkward wooden dummy. And again, in a real survival

00:58:42.120 scenario, none of that is what you would do. You would hunker down, you'd build a fire. You know what

00:58:47.340 I mean? You'd stay warm. You'd never be trudging through the river. Right. Right. Um, but being exposed

00:58:52.680 to that, there's, there's value in that too. Oh, absolutely. Well, again, you know, there's a

00:58:56.660 teamwork component. There's a creativity component, um, trying to figure out, okay, what kind of knots

00:59:02.080 do we use? What kind of system do we rig up, you know, with just nothing but a rope to try and lower

00:59:07.140 this thing safely down. Another challenge was we had to build a raft, um, and float it down a river

00:59:13.320 to a particular checkpoint because, you know, the idea being moving on water is way more efficient than

00:59:19.640 moving on land. Right. So we had to build a raft by chopping up logs and lashing them together and

00:59:26.400 trying to navigate this thing down a, down a pretty, pretty rapid, um, moving. I mean,

00:59:33.720 you know, it's not like full on class four rapids, but I mean, it was pretty substantial,

00:59:39.580 pretty significant, fast moving water. Interesting. Yeah. So it was really cool. I mean, it was,

00:59:44.980 it was absolutely amazing, you know, to do all these things that you would never get to do in

00:59:50.220 everyday life. And that was part of the, the appeal to me. It's like, well, when the heck are

00:59:53.600 you, you know, going to chop down trees and build a raft and huck fin that thing down the river, you

00:59:59.540 know? Right. But you can, again, you're, you're, you're able to isolate and extract elements of that

01:00:04.460 experience to make you more efficient in other areas of your life. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean,

01:00:11.100 one thing that I learned from that was, um, don't use the, the washed up logs that have been sitting

01:00:19.480 there, just getting, getting waterlogged for however many hundreds of years to build your raft

01:00:25.160 out of. Oh, do they sink or what? What turns out they're not super buoyant. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so

01:00:31.920 instead of a raft, we essentially built a submarine that just, it, it, it floated about six inches under

01:00:38.040 the water. Um, and in my mind, you know, I'm going for displacement, right? Like my understanding of

01:00:44.880 physics is like, okay, if I get as big of a log as we can manage, that's going to displace the most

01:00:49.680 water and therefore be the most buoyant. There's some other factors at play that I, that you weren't,

01:00:55.660 that you weren't aware of that I did not calculate in my dehydrated and, um, you know, uh, sleep and

01:01:02.700 food deprived brain that, that probably didn't make the best raft that people have seen, but it,

01:01:10.700 but it worked. I mean, we, we, we accomplished the mission, but you know, in hindsight probably

01:01:16.080 should have elected for a different, different logs in that scenario. And you were out there for

01:01:20.920 what? 21 days. Yeah, it was, it was 21 days, um, of the, of the challenge. So we had nine separate

01:01:28.020 challenges and, and most of them were all within a group. You know, we'd have, we'd have three or

01:01:33.160 four people with us, which presented its own unique challenges, but all in all, you know,

01:01:38.920 the division of labor made everything a lot more manageable. The companionship was obviously a factor,

01:01:44.500 but the very last mission was, was the, the tough, probably one of the toughest things I've ever done

01:01:49.920 in my life to be quite frank. Yeah. And that was a, a solo mission. So we're on our own. Um,

01:01:56.420 we had been up prior to that, uh, for 20, going on 24 hours. So we had a night mission. We were up

01:02:05.240 all day and we did a night mission. Then the next day came and we, we received the scroll that says,

01:02:12.340 okay, you will do a repetitive, redundant task until nightfall. And then, and then at nightfall,

01:02:20.900 you will build a shelter, build a fire, and then you have to stay up the entire night until daybreak.

01:02:27.880 If you fall asleep, you're disqualified. Oh, wow. So what, what was the task?

01:02:34.100 So every, every person got a different task. Um, mine actually, I was really happy with,

01:02:39.860 it was cutting a log. Um, I was going to say like chopping a tree or something, but yeah.

01:02:44.120 Okay. So, so they gave me this massive log and, and an ax that may have well, might as well have

01:02:50.900 been a sledgehammer. It was that, it was that dull. Yeah. And then I just proceeded to swing away

01:02:55.940 until, you know, for the next however many hours, I don't, I don't even know, you know, probably

01:03:01.000 four or five, maybe six. Oh, that's crazy. It was a lot. Um, I ended up getting, I think 26 or

01:03:08.180 2800 swings. I just counted. Um, so is that how you kept yourself sane is you just counted your,

01:03:14.500 your swings? Yep. I would do 50 on one side, 50 on the other. So like 50 left hand dominant,

01:03:20.680 50 right hand dominant, dominant, and just, and just alternate. Um, and then, and then I'd switch

01:03:26.900 and shift to the other side of the log and, and just, and I kept going until they said, okay,

01:03:32.040 stop. And I had about 10 minutes of daylight, um, to try and erect my shelter and build a fire.

01:03:38.180 Which, Oh, and by the way, I didn't mention it's pouring down raining. It hadn't stopped raining

01:03:43.520 for like two days. Still raining. Still raining. Did you cut all the way through the log? I mean,

01:03:47.480 that doesn't sound like that was the objective. So it was for me, like I really, really wanted to,

01:03:53.440 but the problem was, you know, it was cold, but, but obviously I've got all this gear on.

01:03:58.120 I had to manage my exertion. I didn't want to sweat. Right. So I have to, so like you had to

01:04:04.280 consistently, you had to keep moving. Right. But I had to pace myself so that, so I'd have to dial

01:04:11.300 back. So I had to be really in tune with like, okay, I'm, I'm exerting too much. I'm pushing too

01:04:15.020 hard. I gotta pull back, you know? And so I really wanted to get, make it through the log. Uh, I did

01:04:21.600 not. I was probably, if I bet if I had another hour, I probably could have, could have done it.

01:04:27.020 I was hoping that I could have just done that through the night, to be honest with you. Cause that

01:04:30.720 would have been, that probably would have been easier than what I had to do, which was just sit

01:04:36.420 there and freeze because everything was so soaked. I couldn't get a fire going. Oh, brutal. Oh man.

01:04:43.800 So, I mean, again, it's, I haven't watched it. I got to go back and watch this thing now.

01:04:47.760 Yeah. It's really cool. I mean, they, I think they, I wish they had shown more of our successes

01:04:53.860 and more of the, like the changes that, that, that, that took place in people. They, I think they

01:04:59.540 highlighted a lot more on the interpersonal drama, which it's TV. They're going to do that.

01:05:03.800 Right. You know? Right.

01:05:05.180 But I mean, it is really cool. There's some cool stuff that we do. Um, there's some, there's some

01:05:10.080 obvious, you know, slip ups and, and silly things that happen. Um, but, but I mean, this thing pushed

01:05:16.580 me in a way that I had never been pushed. One of actually in it, part of it was in due to some

01:05:22.200 advice that I got from one of your other guests who was on here a while ago, Evan Hafer. Oh yeah.

01:05:27.340 Some of your listeners might remember. So before I went on the show, um, Evan, obviously a green

01:05:32.680 beret has, is no stranger to being out in the cold and suffering. And, and he gave me this little

01:05:38.180 nugget that I think it was meant to help me, but it actually was, man, it was, it was borderline

01:05:44.940 the, the, the end of me. And he told me, he's like, he's like, look, man, all you got to do is not

01:05:50.260 quit. You know? I'm like, okay, I can manage that. He's like, you know, the, the hardest thing I've

01:05:54.700 seen the toughest dudes on the planet that, you know, you, people can be cold, they can

01:06:00.560 be wet, they can be hungry, but almost no one can be cold, wet, and hungry and, and

01:06:06.400 manage to push through that. And he's like, I have seen the hardest men. He's like, and

01:06:11.620 I'm talking the hardest men break from being cold, wet, hungry, tired. And I was like, oh

01:06:17.700 man, okay, well definitely don't do that then. Make sure I don't have that occur.

01:06:21.700 Right. I'll be fine. Right. So, so, so here I am, you know, I spend my last bit of daylight

01:06:27.700 erecting my shelter and now it's pitch black pouring down rain and I'm, and I'm trying to

01:06:33.380 get this fire started with my little Pharaoh magnesium rod, the same little, you know,

01:06:37.620 those little blocks that we used at the, um, one of those. Right. But I've got no tinder,

01:06:42.880 everything's soaked and I'm just, and, and, and I'm sitting there and I, and I'm even, I tell

01:06:48.420 the camera, I'm like, this is, you know, I'm going to do it for the sake of doing it,

01:06:53.900 you know, just to say, Hey, I tried, but I know enough about, about this process to know

01:06:59.040 that this isn't, this, this isn't going to happen. You know, in, in hindsight, while I

01:07:03.760 could still see, I should have focused on getting dry tender, getting the fire started

01:07:08.400 then, and then worried about my shelter. Right. Right. But again, it was a circumstance

01:07:12.900 where it's like, I would have started hours before doing fire shelter and fire stuff. You

01:07:18.600 know, no one wait, you don't wait until, you know, sunset to start making your preparations.

01:07:24.500 Sure. So anyway, all, all learning experiences, right?

01:07:28.460 Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, knowing, attempting this fire, having no luck, um, I,

01:07:35.540 I just resigned myself to just tough it out, you know? And so I, I'd sit in my shelter until

01:07:41.460 I started shivering and then I, and then I'd stand up and I'd go out in the rain and start

01:07:46.020 moving around to get the blood flowing again until I was super soaked, um, or, or too tired

01:07:52.020 to move. And then I'd sit back in my shelter, get out of the rain for a little bit until I

01:07:57.540 started shivering and just repeat that process. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that was, and that was my

01:08:01.540 game plan. That's, that's what I was going to do. And after a while, I, you know, that,

01:08:07.560 that thought of what Evan had said to me popped in my mind and it was like, you know,

01:08:11.140 man, it's like, dude, you, you gave it a good run. You made it 20 of the 21 days. You know,

01:08:17.620 all you got to do is say the word and you could be on a plane and go home and see your wife and

01:08:23.040 your kid who I haven't seen. I mean, at that time, that's the first time I had been away from my

01:08:27.000 daughter for any length of time. She was only three years old. And of course, all in the whole

01:08:30.920 time I'm out there, I'm thinking, you know, how's she doing? You know, is everything okay? I have

01:08:34.720 no word. I had no contact. So that was weighing in my mind. It's like, all I got to do is,

01:08:39.000 you know, is call it and I could be there tomorrow. And, and, and, and what Evan said

01:08:44.600 kept, kept popping in my head. And it's like, dude, I mean, no one, no one's tougher than,

01:08:49.860 than the U S military, man. These guys are the best of the best. And if these hard asses can't,

01:08:54.640 you know, are quitting on this sort of thing, no one's going to fault me for doing it. So I started

01:08:57.880 making these excuses and bargaining with myself, you know, saying like, you know what, man,

01:09:01.900 it'll be all right. Um, it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's not worth, it's not worth dying over.

01:09:06.840 Certainly. And I told myself, it's like, well, all right, dude, you're not going to die. It's

01:09:11.260 like one of two things will happen. You'll either pass out from exhaustion or you'll go hypothermic,

01:09:15.400 in which case the medical team will come in and they'll pull you. And so, so it was like, it was

01:09:21.020 like, all right, dude, quit, quit being a candy. Yes. Quit feeling sorry for yourself. And, and I was able

01:09:26.140 to rally and I found a way that I could kind of move around and stay warm. And that was actually

01:09:31.680 working for me. So it's like, okay, man, this, this might actually be doable. And then, and then

01:09:36.240 that little success led me to, it's like, you know what, maybe I should take some time and, and,

01:09:40.960 and really give a, give an effort to this fire, you know? And so, so I went back to doing the fire

01:09:47.940 and I'm striking and I'm striking and I'm pulling things apart, trying to find something dry, you know,

01:09:52.920 trying to see what I'm doing in the midst of the sparks, right? Cause it's pitch black. Yeah.

01:09:59.040 And, and, um, you know, I, you'll appreciate this as a man of faith and, and I don't know

01:10:05.060 where your listeners lie on that spectrum. But, but for me, I mean, this was a pretty profound

01:10:10.780 moment where I, where I realized I can't do this on my own. Like it's like they're, they're,

01:10:17.400 this is beyond my skill, beyond my ability. And so I, I, man, I, I offered it up in prayer. I was,

01:10:22.680 you know, I looked up and I was like, Hey man, you know, I, I know I can't do this. Yeah. I need

01:10:28.420 some help here. You know, I'm at this, this isn't going to happen without you. And so, you know,

01:10:32.820 I asked God is like, Hey man, uh, any, any, any little bit would, would be nice at this point.

01:10:39.060 Right. Um, and, and the very next strike gave, gave enough hope of a spark. It actually started

01:10:46.440 to light up a little bit. Didn't stay lit, but it was enough to, for me to realize like,

01:10:50.860 Hey, this is viable. You know what I mean? Like, and, and with, within a couple of minutes,

01:10:56.300 I actually had a fire going really. And so, yeah. And, and, and, and, and again, you know,

01:11:01.320 some people believe whatever you want to believe, but for me, it was by the grace of God that,

01:11:05.060 you know, this actually worked in, in, in a circumstance that never should have been

01:11:11.340 successful. Right. So I get a fire going now, now, and I have no idea what time it is. Right.

01:11:18.060 But it's, it's late. You know, I'd say it's probably midnight at about this point. Now I've

01:11:22.660 got a nice, warm, toasty fire that I'm sitting beside and this thing's just, Oh man, it's so nice.

01:11:28.740 And now my eyes are drooping and I'm just now, now I'm warm and I'm comfortable. I've started to

01:11:33.940 dry off and now I have to fight the sleep that I haven't had for the past 36 hours.

01:11:38.500 Why? You could, you weren't allowed to fall asleep at that point?

01:11:40.460 No.

01:11:40.880 Oh, that's right.

01:11:41.780 You were disqualified. That's right.

01:11:43.280 Yep. You're, you're DQ'd. And so it's like, well, man,

01:11:45.660 now I've come all this way. I've, I've overcome like this big, the biggest hurdle,

01:11:50.460 right. Of getting this fire going. I can't lose it now just by falling asleep. So

01:11:54.880 essentially what I, but my eyes were so heavy. Like, I bet, I bet I couldn't not close them.

01:12:00.960 Like I couldn't, I had to. And so it's like, you know, that's a dangerous game that, you know,

01:12:06.680 trying to close them and keep them open. So what I did was I had a stick and I would just twirl

01:12:11.840 the stick in my hands and I'd close my eyes and just keep the stick moving. And then the second I

01:12:18.660 fumbled the stick, I knew, Oh, Hey, you're falling asleep. Wake up. Um, so, so that was my method.

01:12:24.860 I would do that, you know, and then I'd stand up, I'd go get in the cold rain for a little bit,

01:12:29.240 wake me up. Um, as I started getting chilly, then I'd go back by the fire, sit down again.

01:12:33.380 As I got warm, I'd start to get sleepy. So I pick up my stick, rest my eyes when I dropped the stick

01:12:38.680 and that, and that was repeat until, until the sun finally came up. And, and, and like I said,

01:12:46.080 to this day, man, that, that was, you know, of all the training, of all the fighting, of all the,

01:12:51.980 anything that I've put myself to that, that 21 days and that last day in particular, man, was like,

01:12:59.460 it gave me a frame of reference. It's like, all right, dude, you can put up with a lot of shit.

01:13:05.400 Like, that's good to know. Yeah. Not that I need, not that I want to do that anytime soon

01:13:09.620 again, in that same context, but it's like, all right, that's a, you know, that's a nice feather

01:13:14.920 in the cap to know that, all right, you figured out a way. And obviously with a little bit of, um,

01:13:20.280 help from the man upstairs made it through and, and accomplish this.

01:13:25.100 Well, and then, and then also the, the power of small wins too. You took those small little,

01:13:30.720 you know, that one little spark or that one little coal and, and that reinvigorated what you

01:13:35.580 were, what you were doing. And then you got the fire and that changed your morale. And these little

01:13:39.380 wins are critical, not just in survival, but any facet of life. Well, and that's, and you know,

01:13:45.100 you were mentioning where this, where these things kind of tie back and that's, you're absolutely

01:13:49.100 right. I mean, that can be applied to a relationship, you know, the relationship with

01:13:53.140 our wife. Um, it can be our business or our job or, or any number of things. You know,

01:13:58.880 we often look for the, you know, the home run in everything we do, but man, sometimes,

01:14:04.780 sometimes even a foul tip can be enough to, to move us in the right direction.

01:14:09.420 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, Hey man, we, uh, we, we gotta be, uh, uh, cognitism time here. I want

01:14:15.920 to ask you a couple of questions as, as we wind down, I guess the first one before I even get into

01:14:20.880 the one I prepped you for a little bit is where, where should somebody start when it comes to some of

01:14:24.460 this stuff, whether it's survival, bushcraft, emergency preparedness, and, and really just

01:14:28.840 putting themselves in a position to be able to, to deal with these challenges that may present

01:14:32.860 themselves. I think the easiest thing, easiest thing to do is just in your own backyard, you

01:14:39.460 know, go start exploring, you know, pick a skill. You can go online. You can, you know, I mean,

01:14:44.480 there's, there's a number of books on bushcrafting, um, that, that actually explain it and give you

01:14:50.360 some ideas, but I would say, go try and start a fire, you know, and, and without any, without any

01:14:55.860 prerequisite knowledge, just with what you have, with what you think you may need, go

01:15:00.400 and try and start it. And that way you get an understanding of like, Hey, this is a lot

01:15:04.960 harder than I thought, you know, try and start it without a lighter, try and start it without

01:15:09.120 a match and, and, and, and kind of explore from there. When you realize like, man, this

01:15:15.080 is, this is actually pretty hard. There's a lot more to this than I thought. You know, there's,

01:15:18.980 there's a number of online resources. Um, a lot of the stuff that I, that I got was from

01:15:24.840 a company called ready, man. They've got, they've got a ton of videos. Um, they've got

01:15:30.080 an actual, uh, an application you can go and, um, learn, learn a lot of stuff. It's called

01:15:36.820 plan to survive that that's a great place to start. I've got a buddy, Tyler white, who I've

01:15:42.160 learned a ton from. He's got a, he's got a channel on YouTube called T Jack survival, ton

01:15:48.020 of knowledge there as well. Um, and just start researching, right. And pick something

01:15:53.660 that, that, that you think you can manage and start from there. And again, with, as

01:15:58.720 you gain small wins, you, you add to it to where eventually maybe you can venture out

01:16:04.400 if you're not that confident. There's all, there's a ton of schools that you can actually

01:16:07.880 go to and get training. The, um, I believe it's the, the, it's called boss. It's the Boulder

01:16:13.620 Outdoor Survival School. Okay. If for, for you folks out here in the Midwest or sorry,

01:16:18.160 out in, out in the West, um, that's down in Colorado, they've, uh, they've, they've got

01:16:24.940 amazing and structure, amazing, amazing, like immersive. You can go a two day course, you

01:16:29.200 can do a two week course and there's multiple ones around there. I've got another buddy who

01:16:34.300 teaches back East. Um, I, I believe it's called Flint and steel. Um, Josh Enyart is his

01:16:41.580 name. Um, he's a, he's actually a former green Bray, uh, teaching survival skills, super

01:16:46.780 squared away guy. But I would say play around with it yourself and then find someone who

01:16:51.640 can mentor you and teach you whether that's an individual, whether that's a school. I

01:16:55.780 mean, that, that's how we've always learned things since the dawn of time. You know, the,

01:17:00.260 the leaders of the tribe that have passed on their knowledge, you know, whether that'd

01:17:04.120 be the dads to sons or whoever. I mean, that's to me, I think that's the best way to learn

01:17:08.840 anything. Right, right. Definitely. Cool. We'll have to sync all that up and, uh, let

01:17:12.860 the guys know where to find that stuff. Well, let me ask you these, uh, these couple of additional

01:17:16.440 questions. The first one is what does it mean to be a man? For me, I think being a man, um,

01:17:23.800 is having, having a certain level of competency and, and confidence. I think if you can have those

01:17:32.500 two things, then everything else falls into place. You know, I mean, I know you guys have

01:17:39.320 the protect, preside and provide. Sure. Um, in order to do that, you have to have competency

01:17:46.620 in the skills necessary. Right. So it's, you have to have a way to make, to make a living,

01:17:53.960 to provide, um, also to, to, to, um, protect. Right. I mean, it's like, look, man, you're not

01:18:01.800 protecting anybody if you aren't physically capable of. Sure. Right. Right. Right. Um,

01:18:07.360 and then, and then, you know, in order to preside, you have to be, you have to be confident,

01:18:12.120 right? You're not going to preside over anything if you, if you don't believe in yourself,

01:18:15.320 if you don't have the level of, of, of confidence in that. Yeah. I mean, definitely you gotta,

01:18:22.720 you gotta develop that confidence and that proficiency for sure. Yeah. And, and so,

01:18:27.800 you know, and, and maybe that's a, a, a gross oversimplification, but you know, I think that

01:18:34.380 those are two areas that a lot of, of people are lacking in today, you know, I, and I think in

01:18:41.420 order, so, so it would probably start with competency because if you're incompetent, it's

01:18:45.460 very hard to be confident, right? Right. Right. You can't gain confidence in something that you're

01:18:49.480 not at least somewhat proficient in or working towards. Yes. Right on. Yes. And so, so I, I think

01:18:55.240 that that is part of it. And I think, you know, expanding on that, something that, that you've

01:19:00.500 been mentioning in, in a lot of your social media stuff is this notion of constant improvement,

01:19:05.940 right? Finding ways to make ourselves better in some facet or another, you know, not being

01:19:13.860 content or complacent just with the status quo. Right. Um, I, I think it's very easy to fall

01:19:19.740 into that trap because again, we're creatures of comfort. Um, that's, that's, that's where we,

01:19:25.440 you know, we want to find this homeostasis. We want everything to just be nice and, and, and,

01:19:30.260 and easy for us. Um, but the second that happens, we, we lose all, all growth. We become stagnant.

01:19:38.300 And I think that's where we get in really bad places. Yeah. So, you know, part, part of being

01:19:42.960 a man is getting, gaining a level of competency, being confident in that, and then a continuation

01:19:50.200 of growing in those areas, you know, for, for us, you know, the idea with savage gentlemen

01:19:56.540 is when no matter where you are, you can always be adding to one of those skills or the other,

01:20:02.620 whether it's on the savage side and we're talking about survival and, you know, self-defense

01:20:06.680 and protecting or whatever, or the gentleman side where we're talking about interpersonal

01:20:10.820 relationships or, you know, our, our creativity or whatever. We need to be leveling those both

01:20:16.200 up. I simultaneously, if possible, in order to be where, where we should be.

01:20:23.340 I love it, man. I love it. That's powerful. Well, how do we connect with you and learn more

01:20:26.700 about what you're doing?

01:20:28.140 So you guys can connect with me personally, um, on Instagram and Facebook is at Josh Tyler MMA.

01:20:34.540 And then if you want to see some of the stuff that we're doing with Savage Gentleman,

01:20:38.920 you can check that out. It's at Savage Gentleman official on Instagram. Um, we have a podcast and

01:20:46.120 they may find a familiar face, a familiar voice on that. Uh, if they scroll through the archives,

01:20:52.560 man, that's right. Um, might have to have you back, back on again sometime soon.

01:20:56.740 Anytime. I'd love to do it. We'll make sure we sync everything up. Josh, man, I appreciate you.

01:21:01.200 I appreciate your, uh, your wisdom. I appreciate you being part of this movement and of course,

01:21:05.720 helping out with some of our uprising and legacy events that has been tremendous, uh, and really

01:21:10.420 valuable for the guys who have come out. So thanks for taking some time and sharing some of this wisdom

01:21:14.180 with us, man. My, my pleasure. I think we're all in this thing together. I love what you guys are

01:21:18.480 doing with order of man. You know, it's really, really inspiring to see, you know, how, how much

01:21:24.300 you're putting into this and the results that you're getting, you know, and, and, uh, as much,

01:21:30.620 as much as I can, I try to point people in that direction because you guys are doing great things.

01:21:34.300 So keep, keep it up, man. And looking forward to working with you guys in the future.

01:21:38.120 Much appreciated, brother.

01:21:40.680 Gents, there you go. I hope that you pulled a lot of information from this conversation. I hope that

01:21:46.240 you enjoyed the conversation. I mean, that 21 day challenge sounds crazy. I'm actually really

01:21:51.240 interested in going back and watching that show and seeing how Josh did. Um, but really,

01:21:55.840 ultimately we wanted to equip you with a conversation that you needed to at least get

01:21:59.640 thinking about some elements and some skillsets that maybe you need to develop in your life in

01:22:05.000 order to face some of these potentially devastating and dangerous situations that you may find yourself

01:22:11.040 in. So I would encourage you to connect with Josh on social media, uh, connect with me.

01:22:16.640 Definitely. If you're not already doing that and let us know what you thought about the show,

01:22:19.820 let us know if there's some skillsets that you've been working on personally, tag us or tag order

01:22:24.700 of man. Uh, and let us know also what you took away from the show and what you want to implement

01:22:29.840 in your life. This is called order of man. And the reason it's called order of man, the order,

01:22:34.700 the fraternity, the brotherhood is because all of us are banding together, working together,

01:22:40.000 improving ourselves and helping in turn improve other men. And that's where you could come into play.

01:22:45.840 Now, if there's other men in your life, fathers, brothers, colleagues, coworkers, cousins who need

01:22:50.640 the information that we're sharing here in this podcast and through our Facebook group and our

01:22:54.880 brotherhood, the iron council, then I would also encourage you to invite them along. They may not

01:23:00.240 have access to this information or may not have seen it. And you could go a long way in helping

01:23:06.600 them level up in their lives as men. So I'm going to sign out for today until tomorrow for ask me

01:23:12.440 anything. Again, I just want to tell you, I'm grateful for you. I'm glad you're on this journey.

01:23:16.860 You guys inspire and uplift me each and every day could not do it without you. And it isn't lost on

01:23:22.200 me that the reason I'm able to do this and engage in something so meaningful and significant to me

01:23:27.060 is because you are engaged as well. So in parting, I want to thank you for that.

01:23:32.560 All right, guys, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:23:36.520 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:23:41.160 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - April 30, 2019

Survival, Bushcraft, and Emergency Preparedness ｜ JOSH TYLER

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