Order of Man - TANNER GUZY ｜ The Power of Presence

00:00:00.000 I think everyone knows that we're all judged to some degree by our appearance and how we present

00:00:04.820 ourselves. You don't have to like it and you don't have to think it's fair, but that's the

00:00:09.260 truth. And yet so many of us, myself included, often overlook the importance of our physical

00:00:14.300 aesthetic when it comes to presenting ourselves well. My guest today is longtime friend, repeat

00:00:19.240 guest, and men's style coach Tanner Guzzi. Today, Tanner and I talk about utilizing clothing as an

00:00:24.880 extension of you, the aesthetic Overton window and how it impacts what we wear, why you need to avoid

00:00:31.100 being one-dimensional in the way you present yourself, why dressing well isn't all about

00:00:35.680 suits and skinny jeans, and ultimately how you can garner influence by improving your presence.

00:00:41.300 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:47.200 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred

00:00:52.920 and defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you

00:00:59.900 will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:06.200 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I am the host and the founder of the

00:01:10.900 Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back. If you're new to the podcast,

00:01:16.960 this is conversations all designed to give you the tools and resources and guidance and direction

00:01:22.560 that you need to become a more capable father, husband, business owner, community leader,

00:01:28.120 whatever facet of life that you are showing up as, as a man. So we've got a really interesting,

00:01:33.160 kind of a unique conversation today. One that we don't talk about a whole lot, but also a

00:01:37.840 conversation that needs to be had. So I'll get to that in just a minute. Before we do, just want to

00:01:42.100 make a quick mention of our friends and show sponsors, Origin Maine. These guys are quite literally

00:01:49.020 in the backwoods of Maine, building boots, making jeans, sewing together geese and rash guards.

00:01:56.020 And they've got their supplemental lineup, Jocko Fuels, obviously partnered up with Jocko and they've

00:02:00.960 got their new pre-workout. So if you're looking for a good pre-workout, then work with an American

00:02:07.160 made company, Origin Maine. And you can check that out at originusa.com originusa.com and use the code

00:02:15.780 order at checkout to save some money. Also guys, just a very quick ask of you. I don't ask this a

00:02:21.800 whole lot, but very important, not only to me, but to promote the visibility of the show and continue

00:02:26.260 to grow our reach in reclaiming and restoring masculinity. If you would just take a minute or

00:02:30.900 two and leave a rating and review, that's what I need you to do wherever you're listening and

00:02:36.420 preferably iTunes, because that's the biggest podcast platform currently is to go in, take two

00:02:42.900 minutes, leave a rating and review. It goes a very, very long way in promoting what we're doing. I think

00:02:49.520 I saw the other day, we were up to number, I want to say 24, 25 on iTunes charts. We need to be in top

00:02:56.580 10. That's one of my goals for 2022. So leaving that rating and review is going to help.

00:03:00.900 That. All right, guys, without anything else, let me get into my guest today. His name is Tanner

00:03:07.060 Guzzi. He's an author. He's a men's style coach. But really the depth of what he offers goes well

00:03:12.840 beyond the clothes that his clients wear. In fact, clothing, I think is a small part of the work he

00:03:18.060 does. And as I know from personal experience, he probably more accurately helps men build the

00:03:24.580 confidence they need to tackle their most pressing goals and objectives. Tanner and I met years ago.

00:03:29.740 He's a deep thinker. He's somebody I highly, highly respect. He's been on the podcast before and

00:03:35.500 welcoming as a guest speaker also into the Iron Council on multiple occasions. And he will,

00:03:42.060 beyond a shadow of a doubt, get you to think differently about the way you look and why that's

00:03:47.520 important. All right. So we're having some technical difficulties. Can we just splice all

00:03:53.980 that together? I don't know if we can. Oh yeah, because it's all gone. Yeah, it hasn't been.

00:03:58.600 I mean, we might have the audio. We might have the video. We got our rhythm going. So here we are,

00:04:03.260 third time's a charm. So guys, you're listening to this and we've given this now two takes. So

00:04:08.720 this is our third take. So you're getting the best of the best. This is a good one. The best of the

00:04:12.220 best. But what we were talking about is we were talking about me going out to StyleCon in 2015,

00:04:17.140 early 2015, and not having a reason to actually go out there and speak.

00:04:24.580 No, it's totally out of place for you. Totally.

00:04:26.220 Why are you going to a conference about clothing? Style conference. Like I, even today, I don't,

00:04:31.380 and that's what I'm part of what I want to talk about. Yes.

00:04:33.540 Even today, I'm like style. No, it's not me. The only reason that I think maybe it is,

00:04:39.500 is because I've been watching Yellowstone. Oh yeah. There you go. Good aesthetic there.

00:04:43.740 And, you know, I think a lot of people might watch that show or see somebody be like,

00:04:47.240 Oh, that's cool. Like they look awesome. Okay. Well that's a produced, that's a produced show.

00:04:53.280 Right. And they're, they're deliberately and intentionally trying to present or make,

00:05:01.700 I would say make their case. Right. And make it aspirational. Yes. Yes.

00:05:05.100 So I was, I was watching that the other night with, with my wife and I was thinking about you.

00:05:10.840 Nice. And I was like, Oh, I'm glad that as you watch rugged cowboys, you think of me.

00:05:15.580 I think about you. I do. Um, but yeah, I was like, Oh, Tanner probably. I don't,

00:05:20.260 have you watched it? I haven't seen it yet. So I watched, uh, episode one of Yellowstone,

00:05:25.760 like, I don't know, six or eight months ago or whatever. I was like, this is boring. Cause it's

00:05:30.640 Kevin Costner. I like Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner is not acting. He's just being Kevin

00:05:38.020 Costner. Kevin Costner is Kevin Costner. Yeah. So whether he's the cowboy on Yellowstone or the

00:05:44.200 cowboy on open range or water world, if he's that, if he's a, you know, people say, well,

00:05:51.060 that's a different character. Yeah. I mean, he was in water world, but he was still Kevin Costner.

00:05:55.180 He was this grumpy old guy who, you know, saves the, saves the day. Right. Like he's still grumpy

00:06:02.840 about it. He doesn't want to do it, but like, okay, fine. I'll do it. Cause I have to, nobody

00:06:06.300 else is going to do it. So I was like, I don't want to watch the show. And then just like, just

00:06:10.420 watch, just try it. I'm like, okay. So I tried it. It's a really good show. Okay. Like it's a really

00:06:15.120 good show. But as, like I said, as I was watching and I thought more about like, okay, what, like

00:06:20.720 Tanner's going to be all about this because this is an aesthetic that I don't

00:06:25.100 think a lot of people think about. Right. They think about, you know, like if I'm going

00:06:28.540 to be, if I'm going to have style and, and, and, and present myself that I'm going to wear

00:06:33.500 a three piece suit. Right. I'm going to be James Bond. Right. Skinny jeans and sneakers

00:06:37.960 and street wear and all of that. I don't know if anybody listening to this, but they do in

00:06:42.000 a pejorative way. How do you mean guys who care about style? Those are the skinny jean wearing

00:06:46.620 youth ministers. We heard that a couple of times this weekend from John. So they try to avoid

00:06:50.140 that. Right. And so they still think about an aesthetic, but in a negative way, whereas you get it

00:06:54.920 in a positive way, it's three piece suits, it's James Bond and all that. But no, most

00:06:58.580 of the time when guys talk about style or clothes, there's a very emotional response to something

00:07:03.340 like that, but they don't think about a very intentional aesthetic, like what they're doing

00:07:07.480 in Yellowstone. Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's, that's really what I want to talk with

00:07:13.080 you about today. And, you know, as, as I thinking about our conversation, I knew that I know the

00:07:19.080 guys won't resonate. I know a hundred percent. They won't resonate with the word fashion.

00:07:23.320 No, I don't hate it. I hate it. I know that. Cause you and I have talked about that,

00:07:26.700 but I'm not even sure they resonate with the word style. Nope. I think what men resonate

00:07:32.060 myself when I say men, like myself included, and I think probably you too, but you're, you're

00:07:37.480 looking at it from a different angle is just presence. Yeah. You know, here, here's how a

00:07:44.220 lot of guys describe it. You see, we're at this, this beautiful resort here this week. Cause

00:07:49.440 we're spending time together with us and some other incredible men. And, you know, maybe

00:07:55.260 we're sitting down at lunch and somebody walks in, a man walks in and you know, he walked

00:08:01.300 in and a lot of guys describe it as this like mysterious, unquantifiable X factor. And it's

00:08:11.220 really not. It's not. So that's what I wanted to talk to you about. And I think style is part

00:08:16.260 of that part of it, but certainly not all of it. I think it's just a manifestation of

00:08:20.060 the more important, deeper part of it, which is your confidence, your, your capability, which

00:08:26.980 I think is where confidence comes from. Right. And then your ability to mirror your, the way

00:08:34.540 that you present yourself with the way that you feel about yourself.

00:08:38.900 Yes. That external and internal alignment, as opposed to I'm one guy on the inside and

00:08:43.760 I project something entirely different on the outside, which is why a lot of guys are resistant

00:08:47.960 to the idea of changing the way that they dress or getting a different type of haircut.

00:08:53.280 But, but it's ironic because they don't feel that way about getting a tattoo. Like they

00:08:58.220 very much will feel like, yeah, that tattoo represents me and it totally fits who I am.

00:09:02.560 And so there's definitely, there are arenas where this is acceptable and appropriate with

00:09:07.300 the guys that watch or listen to the show with, with your kind of demographic and they

00:09:11.640 need to be willing to take it and extrapolate it a little bit further.

00:09:14.840 I didn't, I never even thought about the tattoo thing because so like, I don't have any

00:09:18.560 tattoos. I know you have, I hate it. I got one like 20 years ago and it's the dumbest,

00:09:22.180 most emo thing ever. It's so pathetic.

00:09:24.140 What is it?

00:09:24.980 It's a freaking candle flame on my bicep because my life was hard and the candle was about

00:09:29.240 to blow. It's so stupid.

00:09:30.580 Hopefully the candle is growing.

00:09:32.040 Yeah, that's true. That the stretching of the tattoo is good. My arms are like five inches

00:09:36.240 bigger than they used to be. So we'll take it. So I don't even that big.

00:09:40.280 I don't have a tattoo. And, but I, but I'll tell you one thing that I thought about and

00:09:44.300 people say, do you have a tattoo? And my knee jerk response is always, yeah, I don't know

00:09:48.820 if there's anything I'd want to put myself, put on myself forever. Right. Like I've, if

00:09:52.520 there is, I haven't found it yet. Right. But that's actually speaking to what you're saying

00:09:56.440 is what that means is, look, I know guys are going to say, well, no, it's really just for

00:10:01.440 yourself. No, it really isn't partly. Yes. But if it was just for yourself, you wouldn't

00:10:07.360 need to, you wouldn't feel the need to express it totally. And you're expressing it totally

00:10:11.680 or it's not on your ass cheek. Right. Because you know, maybe probably some of the guys do

00:10:16.640 right. But that was a lost bet. Yeah. It wasn't, I'm going to be deliberate and intentional

00:10:20.420 about putting this, you know, Phoenix rising from the ashes on my forearm. Right. And that's

00:10:25.640 not to discount that it is for yourself. And that's the same thing with all aesthetics

00:10:29.040 where I think it's really fascinating that with tattoos, we can say it's all me and nobody

00:10:33.660 else, but my clothing is all somebody else and no me. When really the reason that men throughout

00:10:40.780 history of worn the things that they've worn is yes, it's to signal certain things to other

00:10:44.960 people around them, but it's also to reinforce things that you believe about yourself, especially

00:10:49.540 when it comes to things like jewelry or accessories or things that you have to earn the right to

00:10:54.540 wear, you know, you put on a uniform, whether that's a military uniform or a police or even

00:10:59.100 your high school football uniform. And you're, you feel differently when you're in it. Those signals

00:11:05.140 that you send to your own brain are very different and that's part of the real power of it.

00:11:09.160 So it's fascinating that modern 21st century masculinity minded man gets that he can do this

00:11:15.120 with tattoos. Weird that I'm going to try and do that with my clothes or with something else.

00:11:20.280 Well, I mean, I'll be really blunt. The reason they don't, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I

00:11:25.160 don't think I am is because they don't want to be perceived as gay or I know this is not

00:11:29.480 politically correct. A faggot. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, what's so frustrating about all of it is

00:11:34.360 that we've seeded this entire territory of aesthetics. And it's not just with clothing.

00:11:40.320 We've done it with art. We've done it with a lot of music, not all music, but a lot of music. We've

00:11:45.060 done it with so many creative endeavors that that's either the realm of women or gay men.

00:11:50.580 And so a traditionally straight red blooded American male has no business doing any of that. We had one

00:11:56.680 guy that was talking about when he first went to art school and his dad's like art school is for

00:12:01.660 faggots. And that's right. Right. And think about why, why would we give all of that up in a massive

00:12:08.040 culture war? We're going to relegate ourselves to guns and to nerdy blogs that, that spout

00:12:14.360 facts and figures. Like why would we give up so much storytelling and so much power that comes with

00:12:21.440 aesthetics that comes with music and art and clothing and all these other things that move us

00:12:25.460 as opposed to just tickle our reason. But you, but you say, why would we give that up? Like,

00:12:30.520 did we ever, was there a time where we actually believed?

00:12:35.280 Yeah. Okay. Look at this. Look at this. Well, hold on, hold on. Before you say that,

00:12:38.500 because like, as I'm saying that there's two things, like I look at, for example, you know,

00:12:43.040 maybe, and I don't know, I'm not, I'm not a historian, but you know, I think probably

00:12:47.540 the warrior class or the ruling class probably looked at the

00:12:53.220 entertaining class, whether it's, you know, court jesters or musicians or poets.

00:12:59.680 Mm-hmm. And probably always had this level of like, well, yeah, you know, but he's not a real

00:13:05.460 man. Right. But then also you look at Kings and you look at warriors, they were very deliberate

00:13:10.360 about what they wore. The most aesthetically minded men of any civilization were always the

00:13:15.760 warrior class. Look at what we watched last night with the Mayan dancers. Right. With that show that

00:13:19.400 we watched last night, you get these men that come out in these incredible war costumes. And what do

00:13:25.740 they do? They do the things that all men now are just like, man, that's gay. That's unmanly. I'm not

00:13:29.600 going to do that. They care intensely about how they look. You have to earn the right to wear those

00:13:33.420 clothes. They're dancing unabashedly. They're emoting, they're singing, they're doing these other

00:13:38.840 things. And they care deeply about the opinion of the other men that are there within that group.

00:13:42.360 We don't do any of that. So I was thinking about that last night because I knew we were going to

00:13:47.940 have this conversation and you know, it's cool. Right. I was like, Ooh, that's cool.

00:13:54.120 And you know, the guy with the skeleton, he was very deliberate about trying to intimidate. Right.

00:14:00.060 Right. Like you could see that. Right. He wasn't doing it in a mean way. He was doing it in a

00:14:03.380 performative way. Yes. Performative. That's a good way to say it. But it was clear that his role was

00:14:08.580 too intimidating. Right. So, but I wasn't intimidated. No. Because I knew it was all

00:14:14.200 performative. Right. But would you have been intimidated if you heard those drums and you

00:14:19.020 saw men like that with actual weapons coming down the beach at you 500 years ago? I was thinking

00:14:24.920 about that. Honestly, probably. And I think my response to that would have been to do the same

00:14:34.040 thing. Yeah. And we're going to beat our drums louder. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that that's

00:14:37.840 where all of this comes in. Cause I think you're right. The idea of, you know, the court gesture,

00:14:41.660 the entertainers have always been, and I mean, they should be low class. That's what they used

00:14:45.560 to be. It's ridiculous that we make them our heroes now, but that's because. What do you mean by that?

00:14:50.620 Like that they should be low class. No, that like court gestures. Right. Like we look at actors

00:14:55.700 are our heroes now. Got it. Right. That's what we look up to where the actors or it's the sports guys

00:14:59.620 or anything. Got it. And I think. Or even the comedians. Right. Yeah. But I think one of the problems

00:15:03.940 is that we've taken all of these things, the creation of aesthetics, the creation of music,

00:15:08.200 movement, dance, all of it. And it's not something that we produce. It's not something that we

00:15:13.040 actively participate in. It's something that we just consume. Right. I don't, I don't make my own

00:15:18.540 music with my friends in my garage as part of a lifting routine. As we lift weights in the morning,

00:15:22.940 I pop in my AirPods and I listen to something that's been created by somebody else. I'm not making music.

00:15:29.140 I'm consuming it. I'm not making clothing. I'm not injecting symbolism into it. I'm not making it

00:15:35.020 mean something. I'm just buying it and consuming it. And so this is where it gets into kind of like

00:15:39.660 the fight club of you're not your khakis type of thing is we take something that is not only created

00:15:45.060 by somebody else, but mass produced by somebody else. And then we use that to create our own identities

00:15:51.660 as opposed to creating something in and of ourselves. And it doesn't mean you have to like

00:15:56.160 weave your own cloth and sew your own clothing. Right. But I mean, look at what you do with your

00:16:01.440 branding. Right. You've got your t-shirt on, you've got your hat on, you have injected symbolism

00:16:05.580 into what it is that you're wearing. You're producing as opposed to creating. We understand that we

00:16:11.060 need to do that from a food perspective or an economic perspective. Why don't we do that from an

00:16:16.380 aesthetics and an art perspective as men? We should. I think the, I think the reason is, and so this is

00:16:21.580 a good way we're having this conversation because you and I, I actually don't think we see it

00:16:25.140 differently. Yeah. We just apply it differently. Yeah. Uh, or I'll say it this way. We care about

00:16:31.640 it on different levels. Sure. Like you care about it more clearly. Right. And I care about it less.

00:16:38.100 Uh, but I think the reason is, at least for me is that I have bigger fish to fry than spend a bunch

00:16:47.540 of time thinking about what clothes I'm going to wear today. Right. And so I find something it's quite

00:16:53.020 literally the lowest common denominator. Yeah. Well, you know, if you're talking about a building

00:16:58.680 website or doing a podcast or what microphone I should use, those are my tools. I'm like, okay,

00:17:05.100 I'm very deliberate, intentional about that. Okay. So you're talking about what happened where it's

00:17:09.300 like, okay, well like just pick one and then just use that forever. So why don't you do that with your

00:17:13.840 website? I'm just going to pick some like WordPress 2005 template and I'm just going to use that

00:17:19.980 forever. Yeah. The reason that I don't, I already know where you, I don't even want to say it because

00:17:25.200 I already know where you're going is because you know, things change, your, your capabilities improve.

00:17:33.380 The message that I'm trying to put out there should be elevated. So I mean, I know, I know where you're

00:17:39.820 going for sure. So I could have not answered that question, but no, but it's funny. Cause that's

00:17:45.280 another one of the arena is kind of like tattoos that we accept it. It's like, well, I'm not going

00:17:49.820 to go to a site that looks like it was made with Microsoft paint. I'm not going to trust the

00:17:53.720 credibility of that. I'm not going to stay in a resort that I go to this restaurant and they serve

00:17:58.360 my food on Dixie plates. Right. But with certain things, I was thinking about this as we were all kind

00:18:04.460 of like brainstorming. Why is it with handwriting that it's acceptable for us to have ridiculously

00:18:08.460 terrible handwriting, but I can't, but it's not acceptable. Our relationship with aesthetics and

00:18:15.080 beauty is just weird. It is weird. It's weird. What is acceptable to allow to just be not only

00:18:20.820 acceptable, but admirable where again, you would kind of make fun of a guy that had really pristine

00:18:25.200 handwriting that looked like he'd put in the time and the effort to learn penmanship and to get good

00:18:29.580 at it. We certainly make fun of men when they do it with their clothing or with their grooming,

00:18:32.660 but we don't do that when it comes to brands and logos. Can you imagine if you were to go to a,

00:18:39.040 if you were to see a billboard and look like some dude just got up there with a paintbrush and like

00:18:43.300 painted the, what was on the board? Okay. So here, okay. Here's the issue I have

00:18:48.240 is I think part of the reason is, is because a man that cares about what he looks like typically

00:18:57.160 doesn't know how to project who each wants to be. And so he ends up looking flamboyant.

00:19:05.600 Yes. Because he's trying to use that as a way to create who he is as opposed to express who he is.

00:19:11.420 So a man would generally look at that and say, I mean, clear, like I'm not going to be wearing,

00:19:17.840 you know, like a bunch of rainbow and flower shirts. Right. And, but, but the guys that care

00:19:23.680 about their, the way they look, that's what they wear. Right. Therefore, I don't resonate with

00:19:28.860 that person. And so it's a false dichotomy. It is, it is, but that's what we're thinking.

00:19:33.580 Totally. And we've been conditioned to think that because you go tell George Washington

00:19:38.440 that his hyper concern for the custom things that he would tell us Taylor to do with his clothing

00:19:43.480 or how important it was for him that his men had uniforms and that there was regalia so that

00:19:48.460 they could tell the difference between officers. And then that was a major component of

00:19:52.600 the cohesion between different units as part of the American revolution. Sorry, dude,

00:19:58.100 you just care about that because you're into butt stuff with boys, right? No, of course not. But

00:20:03.160 we've been conditioned to believe that that's the only appropriate route for this.

00:20:07.680 But you know, the other side of that too, though, is that it's not entirely true. So

00:20:11.820 on the way down here to Mexico, I get really bored in the car. So I need to either listen to a podcast

00:20:18.340 or do something. My wife knows that about me. So she's like, okay, I'm going to bring the nineties

00:20:21.680 trivia game with us. Yes. So she brought me his nineties trivia stuff. And one of the things was,

00:20:27.560 you know, you know, in the early nineties, what type of shirt did grunge make popular?

00:20:33.740 And we all know it's flannel, right? And so, but that's a deliberate choice. Just as much as the

00:20:41.360 guy who's wearing the floral pattern you think is gay, wearing a flannel in the grunge movement,

00:20:47.600 totally. Or even, you know, you even look at hipsters now, right? Put the flannel on,

00:20:51.560 put the skinny jeans, put the fake boots on that won't last, you know, one real season and doing

00:20:55.520 real work. But you know, they're trying to evoke something. Yes. And, but then also you look at what

00:21:02.740 I think generally most of us would consider real men that, that to me would be somebody like,

00:21:07.100 you know, a cowboy or a ranch hand, uh, somebody who's doing physical labor and somebody in blue

00:21:13.620 collar, they have a uniform just like anybody else. And the gatekeeping that happens in those

00:21:19.240 communities is so intense. I found I've been experimenting with Tik TOK. So I'm sorry if

00:21:24.900 that disqualifies me from any, I know, right. But I mean, that's where the young men are. So you got

00:21:29.120 to produce good content there. Right. Anyway, there's this whole like cowboy Tik TOK and they're

00:21:34.540 vicious with each other about real cowboy would never wear an Under Armour hat or look at you

00:21:39.280 just LARPing yellow. Like everything that I see is a concern about the clothes that each other wears

00:21:45.840 and how a real cowboy would never be caught dead wearing this particular thing. Right. Massive

00:21:50.940 gatekeeping and blue collar. But they actually do. Totally. So if you're going to care, so here's my,

00:21:55.660 my thought and I'm not great at this. So this is something I continue to ask myself. If you're

00:22:00.220 going to care, like whether you realize it or not, or acknowledge it or not, then just

00:22:05.220 do it. Right. Right. And the, the power of doing it right is, you know, you're talking

00:22:09.040 about, I don't want to spend all this time thinking about it. I bet I've got bigger and

00:22:12.040 better things. I don't think about my clothes any more than you do when I'm getting dressed

00:22:16.640 in the morning. I've learned how to, and I mean, it's articulation, it's literacy, just

00:22:21.940 like you don't, you don't have to think anymore about finding a particular word or being able

00:22:26.320 to write a particular way, but you did when you were a kid. And then as you learn and

00:22:30.480 you expand your vocabulary, you learn what grammar is, you learn how to be able to articulate

00:22:34.340 yourself that way. You just naturally and intuitively do it. Yeah. You can get to that

00:22:38.960 point with your aesthetics where it's like, yeah, I know what I'm going to wear because

00:22:41.380 I don't think about it because I've put in enough reps that I know that this is how things

00:22:44.780 are going to work. Yeah. I mean, I, I run across that when it comes to the, uh, the, the,

00:22:50.120 the prepper community, you know, a lot of people will interpret that as being paranoid and a prepper,

00:22:55.320 you know, yes, there is a lot. For sure. Totally. But somebody who's prepared isn't,

00:23:01.680 I don't think paranoid. They've just, they've thought about it. They're intentional about it.

00:23:06.560 You know, for example, you know, you go into a restaurant, every man should be looking at a

00:23:10.240 table and thinking, okay, well, I'm not going to sit with my back to the, to the, like, I'm going

00:23:14.380 to sit with my back to the, to the wall. Yeah. But like, that doesn't take you any longer.

00:23:18.840 No. And it happens intuitively for the majority of us. Yeah. Right. You don't have to sit here and

00:23:23.700 think about, okay, well, I'm going to find my exits. No, you just, you naturally do it. And

00:23:28.280 that's, that's what I'm saying is we can, and we, we should get to that point where we're that

00:23:32.900 natural with our clothing decisions. I think one of the concerns that I personally have,

00:23:36.660 and I know a lot of guys would, that, that, that are listening is that it's uncomfortable.

00:23:40.660 Like with what you're wearing today, I'm like, no, I would wear that. It's not uncomfortable.

00:23:43.660 Right. But then there's other things I'm like, I would never wear that. It's too tight. It's immobile.

00:23:47.420 It's not practical. You look like a clown and no, I'm never going to wear that. And that's what we

00:23:52.940 interpret as style. Right. Yes. I have to wear formal stuffy, uncomfortable stuff. Right. And

00:23:59.700 we're not in a formal stuffy, uncomfortable world. So stop applying 19th or early 20th century

00:24:05.660 paradigms into the world that we live in today. But you know, the other thing that I've been thinking

00:24:09.500 a lot about, and I definitely want to hit on this today is that, um, you know, I want to have

00:24:15.340 influence with people. Yeah. And somebody, very few people, I think now, since we've been talking

00:24:21.180 about it for a while, would interpret that as, you know, bad intentions or anything like that.

00:24:25.180 But genuinely I want to have influence with, with people. Why would you not? You don't want to

00:24:30.100 manipulate people. That's different. But why would you not want to influence people? You believe in

00:24:34.280 what you're doing. Yeah. You believe you can bring good into the world. Why would you not want to

00:24:37.920 influence people? And influence is also amoral. Totally. You know, like Hitler was influential.

00:24:43.240 Right. He was also tyrannical in some areas. Right.

00:24:45.340 But no doubt that there was people who were willingly following him. That's influence

00:24:49.760 is voluntarily having somebody or following somebody. Right. We're having somebody follow

00:24:54.380 you. Uh, so I want to have influence people. And every man listening to this wants that too,

00:25:01.200 whether they're willing to admit it or not. And it doesn't matter how small that sphere is.

00:25:04.920 It may just be that they want to have influence with their wife or their kids or their team at work.

00:25:08.620 It doesn't mean they need to want to lead a big movement, but I don't think you can be a man without,

00:25:12.860 I mean, you'd be a sociopath if you didn't want to have influence on people. Cause it's either,

00:25:17.560 you don't want to have anything to do with anybody or you just want to force people to do your will.

00:25:20.940 Right. Well, and I think about it too, you know, with, with just our physical appearance and our

00:25:25.960 physical abilities, you know, if you're, if you're 50, 60, 70, 80 pounds overweight, I mean,

00:25:30.720 do you really think that people are going to follow you as effectively or efficiently as if you were,

00:25:35.520 you know, 10%, 50% body fat doesn't mean they won't follow you, but you lose influence points

00:25:41.780 or influence capital when that happens. Like, um, you know, men like Winston Churchill,

00:25:47.520 I mean, yeah, you know, partly responsible for saving the world, but also severely obese.

00:25:55.220 Like why in the world would anybody follow that guy? You know, and there's other,

00:25:58.680 there's other elements that maybe make up for it, but I wonder if what it would have looked like

00:26:02.760 if he was lean, shredded and ripped. Right. Especially then. Cause now you get guys who

00:26:07.240 won't follow people that are lean, shredded and ripped because you get these nerdy tech bros or

00:26:12.720 whoever else that it's like, yeah. And the present Peterson. Right. Clear. Cause I've seen some of

00:26:18.240 his previous lectures. No, Michaela's done quite a bit of work with him. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about

00:26:22.300 that. So clear. That's clear. But I wonder what his message would be or what his reach would be if he

00:26:29.100 was jacked. Right. If you just added that element to it. Because it's interesting. Like he's very

00:26:33.380 interesting. He talks about, for example, being a monster. I'm like, well, Jordan, you're a monster

00:26:38.000 with your words. Right. But like, if I met you in a dark alley, I don't think that I'd be afraid.

00:26:43.180 You can't articulate me to death. So it's just, and I'm not trying to like single him out. No.

00:26:50.420 I just think there's some opportunities for us to be a little bit more well-rounded. And so I'm on the

00:26:55.440 other side of the things where, you know, maybe I look a little different, obviously than Jordan

00:26:59.220 would and clearly not capable of articulating a message to the point that he is. So I might need

00:27:04.780 to work on rounding all of that. Right. So I have that full level of influence. Which is the whole

00:27:10.280 old school Greek approach of being all of it. You can be the warrior and you can be the intellectual,

00:27:17.160 you know, you can be a Spartan, you can be an Athenian, you can do all of it. Whereas, and again,

00:27:21.740 this is the power of media going back to that approach is how much, how many times have you

00:27:26.020 seen the trope, whether it was on movies or after kids specials or cartoons that your two choices

00:27:30.520 are either the smart, weak kid or the dumb jock. Right. And you have to pick one of those roads

00:27:36.780 that you're going to go down. That's stupid. I want to be all of it. I want to be strong and

00:27:42.240 competent and capable physically. I want to be strong and competent and capable intellectually,

00:27:46.540 spiritually, financially, aesthetically. And don't make me pick. Yeah. That's a stupid decision.

00:27:51.180 I don't have to pick. I can have it all. Well, that's, and that's to go back to Jordan, you know,

00:27:55.420 that's what I think is like, okay, well, you know, you can articulate your, your message very well.

00:27:59.520 I believe in what you're saying, but like, can, can you shoot me and kill me at 10 yards? I don't

00:28:05.560 know if you and I got into a physical altercation, could you break my nose? Could you take my back

00:28:12.660 and choke me out? I doubt it. Probably not. So that diminishes, you know, and right. And,

00:28:19.680 but maybe the other side of the coin is that, you know, somebody who could do that,

00:28:23.960 but doesn't present himself physically, aesthetically in an appropriate way might

00:28:30.000 diminish his own influence. Yep. And it's easy for us to see that in that physical component.

00:28:34.760 Totally. Cause that's what we go to capability, right? Not the way we present ourselves.

00:28:38.500 Right. But we need to see it as the full picture of it. This is, I love that you brought that up.

00:28:43.000 Cause Matt Boudreau, who's here is fought MMA for years, you know, really incredibly good fighter.

00:28:49.700 And he and I were walking back from one of our meetings, I think yesterday, he's like that guy

00:28:54.020 wrestled, that guy would be a threat. Like you can just pick it up just based on how good their

00:28:58.700 balance is and how fluid their movements are and all of that. And then I get closer and I see his

00:29:04.400 shirt that will say, you know, it's this like jujitsu gym or something else. And so,

00:29:09.080 but it all reinforces all of that. And it's good to be able to see that and judge it because your

00:29:14.500 presence is even those little things. How do your arms swing when you move? How fluid are you? What,

00:29:19.780 what, what does your posture look like? Cause I don't know if this has happened to you. I've had

00:29:23.440 it happen three different times in the four days now that we've been here that I've had random people

00:29:28.420 stop me and say, I've seen you with this group of guys that are here. What is this? Like, who are you,

00:29:36.300 man, what are you doing here? This is different. So that hasn't happened to me, but there is one

00:29:42.060 thing that happened the other day. Uh, somebody came up, we were on the beach and it was me. Who

00:29:47.520 was it? It was me and John level and Ray care. Okay. Now these guys are terrifyingly dangerous

00:29:55.960 operators. Like these guys are the best of the best. They're highly qualified. They're highly

00:30:01.400 significantly more than I am level. Yeah. And this gentleman came up to us and, uh, he said,

00:30:08.380 Hey guys, I just, he had a drink with him and he said, Hey guys, I just want to, uh, I want to thank

00:30:12.360 you for your service. That's what he said. That's the first, that's what he led off. He's like,

00:30:16.460 it's clear to me, you guys are, you know, military, probably veterans and just want to thank you.

00:30:20.600 And I said, Oh, are you, are you a veteran? He's like, no, but you guys are. And I just wanted to thank

00:30:24.540 you. And then he left. Yeah. And you know, I didn't question why he thought that was the case.

00:30:29.660 Right. You know, it's very, it's obvious. It is. And again, I'm not, I'm not trying to put myself

00:30:34.040 in their class cause they're a different class. Right. But, but you did serve. Sure. Yeah. And

00:30:38.560 you carry yourself differently than I do when I have it. Yeah. Uh, I had a friend, I have a friend,

00:30:43.700 Pete Roberts, who said, you know, you can see, you can tell somebody who trains. And I said, I said,

00:30:50.300 how, how can you tell? He's like, I don't know. I don't know. You can just tell. And I, he's not

00:30:56.560 wrong. They're on the balls of their feet more. The shoulders move more fluidly. There's, there's

00:31:00.440 an awareness there. It's, you can tell. Yeah. Man, let me just hit the, uh, the pause button very,

00:31:06.320 very quickly on this conversation. I want to share something with you early in the year. I released the

00:31:11.540 30 days to battle ready course, uh, because I was frustrated with hearing from men who knew they

00:31:16.840 wanted more out of life, uh, but really didn't know how to create it for themselves or how to even

00:31:22.480 replicate the results they may have experienced. So the free battle ready program is a 30 day course

00:31:28.200 designed to equip you with the knowledge and framework needed, uh, to hit it hard come January 1st.

00:31:36.640 So I, I think one of the things guys are really worried about is just taking it too far.

00:31:42.080 Totally. Which is, Oh, I don't want to go lift because I may get too big.

00:31:46.040 I don't think guys think that. Well, I think women think, no, there are some dudes that I

00:31:51.820 remember thinking. I never heard a guy say that. Okay. Well, crap. I just outed myself.

00:31:56.520 I know. Maybe it's because I was always a scrawny endurance kid. And so, but it felt like

00:32:00.000 it was changing my identity. Really? One, I think it felt impossible. So there was like a sour grapes

00:32:05.900 component to it. And, and two, it just felt like it was a complete change of my identity

00:32:10.520 because you're strong. Yeah. Or it's, I was always like the skinny fast kid. And so being strong and

00:32:19.840 bulky and trying to look like Arnold was not being who I was. And that's funny because I'm

00:32:24.980 certainly nowhere near Arnold territory, but I got 50 pounds more muscle than I did 10 years ago.

00:32:30.300 And you might not ever be able to get to that point. I'm not going to get to Arnold level.

00:32:33.360 You know, if I would have started when I was 15, if I were Brecken's age, as opposed to 28,

00:32:39.520 the first time I hit a waiver. Maybe not even then. Maybe not.

00:32:42.020 Because there's some genetics involved as well. Right. But, but I was afraid of that. And then

00:32:48.500 I just found that my identity expanded into something that was way better than that one

00:32:53.780 dimensional pigeonhole I'd put myself into. That's an interesting point is this idea of identity.

00:32:58.400 So we get so wrapped up in who we are and how we present ourselves and how people view,

00:33:03.820 not how we present ourselves. Actually, that's probably not what it is, just how people view us,

00:33:07.620 which I think there's a distinction there. But again, you know, a guy that like myself,

00:33:13.800 you know, a guy that, that thinks, okay, well, let me improve my, the way that I present myself to

00:33:18.840 the world. I just don't want to take it too far and be taken less serious. Cause look, I've seen guys,

00:33:24.800 well, so my wife and I, we were at, uh, we were at home. This was last week and we went to LL Bean.

00:33:31.400 We were doing some Christmas shopping and this guy like popped out of this like really nice,

00:33:35.660 classy suburban. It was very, it was very appropriate for where we were. This is a kind of a nicer area of

00:33:42.540 Freeport and Maine and he pops out and he's got this like long cow hide thin jacket on. Um, it was

00:33:55.100 hilarious. It was hilarious. Just totally hilarious. Yeah. But I think cause he popped out and like he

00:34:01.660 was, he has held up his head up and I think that he thought it was, he was balling. Awesome. And I

00:34:08.460 don't know if he knew I could, I actually couldn't tell him like, is he, is he joking? Right. And

00:34:13.720 he's been, and he's being funny. And so like, it is funny. Right. Or is he taking himself seriously?

00:34:19.340 Taking himself seriously. Yeah. I think that's what guys are worried about. Right. And that's,

00:34:24.640 that's, that's a realistic aversion. I, same thing that you're talking about where guys who've trained,

00:34:29.040 you know, and you don't know why you can't quantify why it's those little things about the way that

00:34:34.880 they move that you can just tell that's what your style changes should be. It shouldn't be so big.

00:34:40.140 Some like random one 80 or going in some totally different direction. It's like, well, who's this

00:34:44.780 guy, right? It should just be a tweak and an improvement and a building upon whatever the

00:34:50.720 foundation is that you are. So you're not a different person. You're just a better version

00:34:55.080 of what you are. So look, I agree with everything you're saying. I I'm a big advocate of what you talk

00:35:00.340 about, although I don't live it quite admittedly. I'm a huge advocate of what you're talking about,

00:35:04.620 but let's take lifting or let's take jujitsu. Like I don't, I don't train jujitsu. So people

00:35:12.340 will know I train jujitsu. Right. I don't go to the gym. So everybody knows I'll go to, I go to

00:35:18.080 the gym. Right. And that's, I know it's ironic. I'm admitting that on this podcast to, you know,

00:35:23.140 tens of thousands of people. I get it. Right. But that's not why I do it. But I think there's a

00:35:28.920 perception, even, even for myself that I'm dressing for somebody else. Like the reason

00:35:35.560 that you would do that is to get approval from somebody else. I don't do other things in my life

00:35:42.260 for approval. And yet I interpret it to some degree, even though, again, I'm a huge advocate

00:35:47.280 of what you're doing. I've referred so many people over to you. Which I appreciate every one of them.

00:35:51.760 Of course. Cause I know it's important. Yeah. But also I really, I think that to myself to some

00:35:59.000 degree and other people think, well, the only reason I would even do this is for other people.

00:36:03.660 Right. Okay. So why do you train jujitsu and why do you go to the gym?

00:36:07.540 To be more capable. Okay. More capable in what way?

00:36:11.620 Hurting other people. Okay. If needs be.

00:36:14.100 You lift weights to be more capable in hurting other people?

00:36:16.320 If to protect myself, to be capable. Is there any sort of positive building as opposed to just

00:36:22.040 protecting that comes from lifting? Like, do you feel different? Sure. Yeah.

00:36:28.220 Did your day go more smoothly? Are you more capable of being robust mentally? Like do you find that it

00:36:34.000 bleeds into all these other things too? It does as a by-product, but I look at lifting and it may not

00:36:39.800 just be that to hurt other people. Right. I mean, that's more jujitsu. Right. I think,

00:36:43.420 but like lifting, like, I want to know that if my wife and I get into a car wreck that I can pry

00:36:48.320 that car door open. That's jammed. Totally. That the average dude couldn't open and get his

00:36:54.020 damn wife out of a burning vehicle. Right. Or to pull her out. So you want enough tools that in a

00:36:59.180 dire situation, you're capable of handling that situation. Correct. Why is your clothing not that

00:37:03.960 same way? Explain that because I don't know how me wearing what you're wearing, for example,

00:37:10.820 although it looked great. Thank you. Would present that same sort of result.

00:37:15.040 It's more subtle than that. It's more subtle than that. But I mean, again, think about what

00:37:18.800 happened with, uh, with this guy that came up to you guys on the beach. You presented in some way,

00:37:23.320 it wasn't through your clothing, but you three presented in a way that he understood who and

00:37:27.960 what you were. Let's say we're in a, uh, in fact, I just heard that there was some crazy thing of

00:37:33.940 like, uh, like shooters out on jet skis, shooting up one of the beaches here in Cancun this week.

00:37:38.860 Somebody just texted me this. And are you being serious? I'm serious. Yeah. Somebody just texted

00:37:42.960 me this and said like, are you guys okay? Yeah. And so I don't know how close it was to where we

00:37:46.840 are or anything like that. Right. Crazy. Not hear about that. I thought you were joking. I thought

00:37:50.120 you were making something. No, no, this really happened or at least, you know, maybe it was a fake

00:37:54.380 link or something, but somebody sent me something. What if that guy was capable, not as trained as you

00:37:59.600 guys are certainly not as trained as, as level and Ray are, but capable. And he came to find you

00:38:05.620 guys to be able to offer help in that situation. Give me something to do and I will do it. And the

00:38:10.380 only reason that he would know to come to you guys and to be able to offer help to you guys is because

00:38:13.940 of the way that you presented. Yeah. I actually don't think that's, that's out of the realm of

00:38:19.660 possibility. Right. You know, we're going to look generally for the people who are most capable.

00:38:23.940 Right. And so we're picking up on subtle cues that would signify that. Yeah. How, if you're in a

00:38:29.220 crowded building and you need to find a police officer, how are you going to know who to talk

00:38:33.260 to? He's uniform. He's close. Right. Right. That's a good point. I think more or not that context is

00:38:41.960 wood wearing different clothing. Cause I think that's few and far between. Right. It's not that

00:38:48.300 overt for you. Right. But I think, you know, wearing the right clothing might help me make an extra 10%

00:38:54.560 income. It'll help you do that. It'll help you be able to kiss. And I think this is where a lot

00:39:00.720 of guys miss this. And this isn't just clothing. This is grooming. This is anything else. Presence

00:39:04.020 related. Yeah. Which is why you were a big advocate when I trimmed my beard. Right. Sure. They think

00:39:09.380 that it has to do with the way that other people see them and that's well, okay. They think that

00:39:14.860 that's like 90% of it when really that's about 10% of it. Well, it is. I'll tell you from my

00:39:21.760 perspective, it's less, like you said, 10% because you actually can undermine your own

00:39:28.440 credibility. Totally. So this guy who had this big, you know, cow hide thing or whatever that

00:39:32.500 thought he was bad-ass. Right. He thought it was achieving a result and it probably likely was

00:39:38.920 achieving the exact opposite. Totally. So therefore the way that he was perceived was less important

00:39:44.740 than, how am I trying to say that? The way that he was less of a factor, I should say,

00:39:52.420 than the way he felt about himself. But it's way more about how you feel about yourself. So let me

00:39:56.580 give you a couple examples. Okay. One is that a lot of my clients, a good percentage of my clients

00:40:01.700 are guys that are going into this empty nesting phase. You know, they've made good money. They've

00:40:06.060 kind of gone through the, and they're a little bit intimidated about going into this next phase where

00:40:10.160 they've seen their friends just kind of give up. They just start going to early bird lunches or

00:40:14.580 dinners and then they golf and they retire and that's it. And they just kind of like dissipate

00:40:19.100 into nothing. Exactly. Right. And they don't want to do that. And so one of the things that they look

00:40:24.300 to for me is how do I dress in a way that when I see the family photo that we take with all the

00:40:29.940 grandkids every year, that when I see myself in the mirror in the morning, I don't see your average

00:40:35.380 sunbird that's just going to wither away. I see somebody who's still building and growing and

00:40:41.020 accomplishing more. And so it's this reinforcement in their own head of I've not given up. I'm not

00:40:46.420 just resting on my laurels. I have more things that I can do and more things that I'm capable of.

00:40:50.860 You know, another example is I've got a lot of my guys are blue collar business owners and they're in

00:40:57.160 this really unique position of how do I dress in a way that I can actually get down on my hands and

00:41:02.680 knees and I can, I can facilitate some of the work, even though I'm not the guy that's in the

00:41:06.860 trenches resonate with those guys, resonate with those guys. So then I'm not like in my ivory tower

00:41:10.800 and I'm totally disconnected. Right. But at the same time, I still look professional and not like

00:41:15.520 I'm just some day laborer when I'm talking to contractors or investors or any other, you know,

00:41:21.140 the real estate agents or anything else like that. How do I thread that particular needle?

00:41:25.820 And so learning how to be able to do that absolutely helps them manifest in better ways and it improves

00:41:31.640 their lives differently, but to a similar scale, as far as what we do, when we train martial arts,

00:41:36.200 when we start lifting, when we start doing any other mental stuff, or it has a way bigger impact

00:41:42.120 than, Oh, people think I look cool. Right. One of the things I've thought about and the guys give

00:41:46.800 me a hard time about, which I don't mind if people give me a hard time that that doesn't matter to me

00:41:49.900 anymore. Yeah. Cause I've dealt with it so much. Right. But so we have our iron council. We have

00:41:54.520 anywhere from 150 to 200 people join us on those calls. And I've got this blue light behind me.

00:42:00.900 Okay. And, and the guys occasionally will say, well, like, Oh, there's your blue light again

00:42:05.220 or whatever. And they, they mock it. But also I, whenever they do, I say, well, whose screen are

00:42:11.320 you looking at? Yep. Whose screen are you? There's 200 guys on here. Right. And which screen are you

00:42:17.220 looking at? Right. Because even if you weren't the main dude, whose screen are they looking at?

00:42:20.800 You'd see my screen. Right. So inherently we understand it. We just, we, we resent it. Like we,

00:42:26.740 we work actively against it. And that's the big thing is most guys think that they're indifferent

00:42:31.380 about it. They're not, they're antipathetic about it. They work against it as opposed to just avoiding

00:42:36.780 it or ignoring it. And that's, that's as silly and as ridiculous as working against how, how much

00:42:44.260 better your life is when you put on muscle and you lose fat or how much better your life is when you

00:42:48.040 make more money and you have less debt. You're just better off. You're more capable and you're

00:42:52.700 more powerful. Yeah, absolutely. That's it. So, all right. So, you know, let's get in,

00:42:58.940 let's pivot then. And let's talk about practicality. You know, you, what you were saying is, yeah,

00:43:03.280 don't take it to the extreme. Cause you're going to look like the clown that came out in the cowhide

00:43:06.820 suit at LL Bean and in Freeport. Right. If he's listening, he's going to feel like that.

00:43:12.960 Poor dude. But he needs to know. Yeah. He needs to know. Like somebody needs to tell,

00:43:17.420 nobody told him. Right. That's actually, that's actually an interesting point. Like

00:43:21.620 some, somewhere along the way, he got this idea, whether it was in his own mind or somebody else

00:43:26.100 said, you're cool. And it really wasn't cool. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the American idol

00:43:31.120 syndrome or whatever, whatever you want to call it, where, you know, you have these people come in

00:43:34.940 and they're horrible, horrible singers and nobody ever told him the truth. Right. I always feel bad for

00:43:40.180 him. Right. No guys, that happens a lot with style where, well, some random girl complimented me on the

00:43:44.680 street. And it's like, well, you can't trust that man. You can't trust that at all. Right. Yeah.

00:43:49.540 She may just think that it's unique and therefore she doesn't know how to say that's unique without

00:43:54.120 saying that looks good or that looks cool. And so now you take it as a positive reinforcement when

00:44:00.260 that was actually a really bad decision. Well, you know, so that's a good point. So the other day,

00:44:04.000 my family and I were walking back from the beach or the pool and I saw this older gentleman and he had

00:44:09.060 this shirt on his white shirt and on top it said Republican. And it had a checkbox next to it.

00:44:13.660 And then it said Democrat, I had a checkbox and on the bottom it said pissed. And so, you know,

00:44:18.920 Republican and Democrat were not checked, pissed was checked. And I'm like, Hey, you know, can I

00:44:23.400 take a picture of that? He's like, yeah, sure. And I took a picture of it. Like, yes, it was a

00:44:29.560 compliment to the shirt because I thought it was a funny shirt. Right. It was a good message,

00:44:33.080 but like, I would never wear that. Exactly. And he could maybe potentially interpret that as being

00:44:38.560 like, Oh, I should wear this shirt everywhere. When in reality it wasn't a style. Right. I wasn't

00:44:43.180 complimenting his style. I was complimenting the message. And did you pay attention to the man?

00:44:47.100 Uh, yeah, I think so. A little bit. But it was mostly about the shirt.

00:44:50.980 A hundred percent. He was a mannequin for the shirt. It wouldn't have mattered what he looked

00:44:54.360 like or what he said. I mean, we had a brief, brief conversation. It could have been anybody.

00:44:59.120 The shirt was the message. The shirt was the message. Sure. And that's the problem.

00:45:02.780 That's a good point. So what you're saying is that you're, you're, well, it could be competing,

00:45:08.940 right? So again, I'm, I keep, I love that. I'm making you think about this in real time.

00:45:13.120 I am, but I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm really honed in on this cowhide guy. Yeah. Okay. So

00:45:17.880 poor dude. Yeah. Well, he needs to know. I want to, if, if a man wants to take himself seriously,

00:45:25.880 then the clothes should compliment the man. Yeah. And it should not be about the, the clothes.

00:45:34.360 And there just happens to be like, you said, a mannequin inside of those clothes. Yep. So how

00:45:38.980 does a guy do that? You know, I like, I'm a t-shirt and hat and jeans kind of guy. Okay. I wear

00:45:42.760 origin boots. I wear origin jeans. I wear t-shirts and I wear a hat. Period. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

00:45:48.380 I mean, Pete's great. Why not? Pete's great. Absolutely. And I care about them and I want those

00:45:52.360 guys to wear it. And I like their, I like their stuff. Yes. So, uh, but that's what I wear.

00:45:58.860 That's my uniform, if you will. Yeah. So how does a guy who wears something like that

00:46:03.020 or anything else gradually improve? So he's not this, the clothes aren't the most important thing.

00:46:08.480 It's just complimenting who he is as a man. So there's a couple of things to do. Um,

00:46:12.320 for a lot of guys, it's just as simple as dialing in the fit a little bit better,

00:46:17.180 making sure that your pants aren't too long, that they're not, especially because a lot of guys that

00:46:22.620 still have this way, they dress the way that it was cool in the nineties. And that's, what's really

00:46:26.500 funny is that, you know, a certain aesthetic that was on point then just looks kind of dopey and

00:46:32.320 grandpa ish now. Baggy clothes. Like I see, I'll see guys that have just even a slight

00:46:37.100 like baggy fit in their jeans. I'm like, why are you wearing that? How far you have to go out of

00:46:42.820 your way to find stuff that's cut like that anymore. You don't really want baggy stuff to go

00:46:48.320 find it. I mean, I don't know though. Because that's not just made normal anymore. But there's

00:46:52.560 like all kinds of different styles and companies are like, you know, here's, here's a few for

00:46:56.740 these guys. And it doesn't mean you have to go skinny on stuff. You do not have to go skinny on

00:47:07.940 stuff, but get stuff that fits like super simple thing on t-shirts, find brands. And there's not

00:47:13.040 a universal brand that does this because it depends on your build. But the main thing is you want it to

00:47:17.360 be snug in the traps, the shoulders, the sleeves, which means that it falls like middle of the bicep.

00:47:23.620 Right. And then it actually like hugs your arms as opposed to hanging really loose on you.

00:47:27.760 And then you want it snug in the chest. Whereas you want some good drape down through the stomach

00:47:32.540 area. Well, so I've seen a couple of guys here at the resort and like, it's, it's obvious that

00:47:37.660 like they've got a nice physique. They've got a good physique. They've worked on it and they're

00:47:41.480 wearing these like shirts that are like down to their elbows. It hides it. Makes you look like a kid.

00:47:45.500 Bro, what are you doing? Like you've been, you worked hard. Show it off. Not only show it off,

00:47:49.920 but like, like make sure your style matches that because people will take you more seriously.

00:47:56.680 Yep. Yeah. Now you just kind of look like you said, don't be kid. It doesn't know anything.

00:48:01.400 Yeah. You're a dunce. So it undermines everything that you're visually communicating with physique.

00:48:05.200 And obviously you don't just get the physique to visually communicate, but use that and it does

00:48:09.820 undermine it. Right. So just get your stuff. So it fits a little bit better. You can still wear t-shirts.

00:48:13.700 So, but the challenge is, is what do you suggest? You find a certain company or a certain brand

00:48:21.380 that, that is cut like that. And then, you know, buy 17 shirts of theirs that fit you well.

00:48:27.920 That's how it is for me. Like I found with, I do this with my Henleys, which is basically a t-shirt

00:48:32.140 that just has this row of buttons on it. I buy mine from Mont or not from Montenbo. That's where I get

00:48:36.760 my jeans from Buck Mason. I like Montenbo. I have their jeans. Good jeans. Yep. And they're not great

00:48:41.800 if you, if you're built a certain way. So it really is about finding brands that work for you. But

00:48:46.580 I think this is my third or fourth time buying one of these blue Henleys from Buck Mason because I

00:48:51.640 wear them hard and they last me a couple of years. Then I go and I buy another one. Most guys get way

00:48:55.680 too focused on color. Cause again, they think like this big disparity, black, white, blue, brown, and gray.

00:49:01.140 That's it. It's all you need in your wardrobe. They're culturally neutral colors. It's super easy to

00:49:06.500 match almost anything within that color scheme. Awesome. If you love color, embrace different

00:49:11.520 things, have some fun with it. I like color. Right? I like black and brown. Right? One of my

00:49:16.400 best clients, Matt Reynolds, who runs Barbell Logic, did not want to work with me. Was so resistant to

00:49:23.020 the idea of working with me because he's also spoken at StyleCon. He's been out to this event and

00:49:26.920 he's like, I don't want to look like these guys. And that was the first thing, right? That was the first

00:49:31.920 thing that we did is it's like, Matt, just stick with these colors. And it totally changed this

00:49:37.560 whole paradigm on everything. Like you do not have to do the spring popsicle thing. Just wear your

00:49:42.540 normal colors. That's what it is. I see it. I'm like, why are you wearing that? You don't have to.

00:49:48.940 That's a good point. All right. So, all right. So find it. So fit, you're talking about fit. So

00:49:53.100 finding a fit that's important. That's important. Yep. Stick with those neutral colors. Yep. Yep. And then

00:49:57.840 what? Focus on quality. Like how do you, hold on. I want to get, I want you to get to that. Okay.

00:50:03.780 But how do you know that you look good? Because look, it's easy to look in the mirror and you're

00:50:10.100 like, yeah, I look pretty good today. And you're lying. Right. Or at least you're fooling yourself.

00:50:15.260 Okay. Like you're, you're making your, so the, like I think about it with the eyes, the eyes are very

00:50:20.340 interesting, especially as a child. Like, you know, they, they see a shadow and they, they can

00:50:24.600 interpret that as a step. They have to learn that. And so their eyes are formulating.

00:50:29.080 That's a good comparison. Yeah. Right. And so, or, or, you know, I see something far over

00:50:34.340 there and it's my two eyes that are separated and are, you know, zoning in that, but there's

00:50:39.220 a gap. And so like there's missing information and our eyes just, they, our eyes make it up

00:50:45.500 and just through repetition can get pretty good at interpreting that that's a hundred yards

00:50:49.800 away. Even though it's a ways away, I can see that, you know, even in the gaps, I'm going to

00:50:54.160 fill in those gaps. That's what the brain does. We do the same thing. I think when it comes

00:50:58.320 to the way that we, we see ourselves, you know, you look in the mirror, you're like, I look

00:51:01.460 pretty good today. Actually, no, you really don't. It's subjective. You know, so how do

00:51:06.440 you know you actually are hitting on it? So there are certain aesthetic things that just

00:51:12.240 look better. You can go back to like Leonardo da Vinci and the golden ratio. You can go to

00:51:18.020 kind of the idea of what good proportions are, things like that. And really what it comes down

00:51:23.340 to is learning what looks best on us. And then doing that exact same thing, putting

00:51:27.700 in the reps with my one-on-one guys, as we're going through the program, I have them send

00:51:32.460 me a selfie every day. Once I've taught them a few things and every day, how do your pants

00:51:37.280 fit? How do your shirts fit? How do things fit? It only takes them like four or five days

00:51:41.500 of sending me that and are having a conversation about it until they get to the point where they

00:51:46.020 can recognize it.

00:51:47.540 Yeah, but then I need to go out and buy a bunch of stuff.

00:51:50.400 But then, but you know it, especially because this is what's so fun is when you turn that

00:51:54.440 part of your brain on, it doesn't turn off. The number of guys that I've had, number of

00:51:58.820 my clients that I've had text me as we've been here this week. And they're like, you're the

00:52:02.740 only one who's shorts are the right length or all these little things. And it's just because

00:52:07.280 once it's a paradigm shift, once you start to see it, you see it everywhere. And then finally

00:52:11.960 you're able to articulate. That's why that guy looks cool because his pants aren't too short

00:52:15.820 or too long or because the sleeves fit the way that they're supposed to, or this is why

00:52:19.060 this doesn't look good. And so you're constantly putting in the reps, just like you're, when

00:52:23.060 you're learning how to differentiate between a shadow and a step or how to gauge distance,

00:52:27.200 like you're constantly putting in the reps because you're constantly being exposed to

00:52:30.160 it. You just need the framework to measure it against. That's the framework to measure

00:52:34.420 it against. And then pay attention to the people around you. Why do things look good?

00:52:37.360 And why do things not? And learn to distinguish between those.

00:52:40.640 Do you think the guys you said it a second ago, that guy that just looks cool and we all

00:52:44.580 know guys that look cool. You're like, Oh yeah, it looks awesome. Look at that picture.

00:52:48.200 Look at him. He looks amazing. Do you think that just some guys get it or even those guys

00:52:53.000 just more intentional about it?

00:52:54.260 I think there's some guys that just kind of naturally get it, but it's more of in a monkey

00:52:59.780 see monkey do kind of way where if you were to think about it, like a really natural musician

00:53:06.180 that doesn't necessarily understand music theory and all of that, but they can write really

00:53:12.940 good music. Intuitively, they just have some things going on.

00:53:16.000 Yeah. I would say it's more like that.

00:53:17.620 You know, so I think about guys, uh, you know, who are strong, like inevitably it's going to

00:53:22.260 make you look cooler. Yeah.

00:53:24.280 You wear anything else compared to a guy who's skinny and you're going to look cooler.

00:53:27.740 You're just going to look better.

00:53:28.640 Yeah.

00:53:28.940 Yeah. And it's because we're hardwired to see value in that. Not because

00:53:33.620 value, just capability.

00:53:34.780 We see capability. We see a deeper meaning into it. We see strength. We see capability.

00:53:39.200 We see discipline, right? We see all of that and our brains immediately connect all of

00:53:43.880 that together. And we go, that's good. I like that. Same thing with why we like seeing boobs

00:53:46.960 or red lips or anything else we see fertility or availability or all that. You don't consciously

00:53:51.180 think that you just like to see it. And your brain goes, this is good because of all these

00:53:55.340 reasons. And so clothing, anything else, grooming, tattoos, body language, anything related to your

00:54:02.240 visible presence, it can do all of that. And again, you're not going to turn it off.

00:54:06.480 You're never going to, we're never going to be able to rewire our brains to the point where

00:54:11.560 we don't take in visual cues and extrapolate meaning from them. We're not, it's a pipe dream.

00:54:16.780 So why not actually use it to your advantage instead?

00:54:19.180 I mean, you're going to do it anyways, regardless of what you wear.

00:54:22.020 You're going to wear clothes every day.

00:54:22.940 All right. Let me ask you this. So when is my graphic tee and my hat appropriate?

00:54:28.260 Cause I just want to put myself in more of those environments. I have to worry less.

00:54:31.700 See, it's different for you because it's, it's you, right? It's part of your brand and you,

00:54:38.180 you have enough social status, not only within your respective sphere, but also kind of within

00:54:42.500 the world in general that you can show up that way.

00:54:45.620 But, but okay, you're right. You're right. But the appropriate phrase for that is I can get away

00:54:52.040 with it. Sure. It's not that I'm elevating is that I can get away. Totally. You have enough

00:54:57.580 social capital that you can spend it on dressing in a way that's inappropriate for the context.

00:55:02.800 Even a greater example of that is Joe Rogan. Totally. Joe and Jocko. Right. Those guys wear

00:55:08.960 graphic t-shirts. Jocko has horrible, horrible fashion style. And he's proud of it. He wears

00:55:15.620 dad socks. He wears weird shorts. He wears a t-shirt. That's probably a little too big. Like

00:55:21.100 a Jocko. I mean, but, but he can get away with it because of the capital. Because of who he is.

00:55:27.560 Right. Exactly. Yeah. At the same time, I doubt he's wearing that to a funeral.

00:55:32.560 It's true. I doubt he's wearing that to a wedding. Or to even to, you know, what is it? Dedicate or

00:55:39.380 christen a ship or whatever. He's not wearing that. He's wearing his, you know, his whites or

00:55:43.240 whatever. Exactly. Right. And so just back that off a little bit more. You know, another really

00:55:47.060 good example of this is like everybody, I'm in a, I'm in a neighborhood with a bunch of tech guys

00:55:52.020 because Utah is this kind of booming tech space. And so Zuckerberg is kind of, you know,

00:55:56.780 you have this whole t-shirts and jeans and all of this, like the tech uniform.

00:56:01.600 And so Zuckerberg has always held up. Well, that guy's, you know, he's a freaking billionaire and

00:56:05.260 he runs the whole world and he can dress a certain way. He doesn't have to dress a certain way.

00:56:08.620 You're not Zuckerberg. You're not Zuckerberg. And what did he wear when he had to testify

00:56:11.940 before Congress? He wore a suit and a tie. Yeah. Because that was what it was appropriate to do.

00:56:17.540 You know, it's the same thing where Jocko. See, I want to get to the point where,

00:56:20.780 yeah, I think it's important, but I want to get to the point where, you know,

00:56:24.320 I could go to Congress and say, I'm going to wear a suit and tie. No, you don't.

00:56:26.860 No, you don't. No, because this, that makes your identity one dimensional. You make yourself into

00:56:32.160 the, I am the graphic t-shirt guy. But there's also something to be said for,

00:56:36.980 you're not going to tell me what to wear. No, there's, there's absolutely something for that,

00:56:40.720 but it's still the idea that dressing a certain way is imposed on other people or imposed by other

00:56:46.440 people on you as opposed to, I dress however I want to. But isn't it? What do you mean?

00:56:52.800 Like imposed upon you. Think about church, for example. Okay. It's completely and entirely

00:56:59.520 appropriate to go to church in a suit and tie with a white shirt. Right. That is the appropriate

00:57:04.380 thing to do. Who decided that? Well, culture did. Right. So why can't you shift that? Okay. But okay,

00:57:10.740 let me ask you this. If you could take anything that men have ever worn, anything, whether it was

00:57:18.400 the Mayan stuff that we saw yesterday, or it was, you know, like the winged hussars with their armor,

00:57:23.920 or it's the, the guys from, uh, from like the Trojan Wars with their helmets, you're going to pick

00:57:29.860 a graphic t-shirt and a trucker hat. No, not necessarily. So why not take it all the way?

00:57:35.360 You're still being imposed on by society. Okay. But so here's another consideration then.

00:57:41.020 Is why not? And, and I know you've been in this. I know because we've had conversations is that

00:57:48.720 there's also to be something to be said for being rebel. Right. Which can be personified by the

00:57:54.660 clothes you wear. Right. Right. So if you're going to show up at church without a suit and tie or to

00:58:00.120 Congress, long hair in church. Yeah. Or to Congress or even a beard at church, you know, in our culture,

00:58:05.600 a beard is, is even sometimes frowned upon. Um, you know, if you're going to show up to Congress

00:58:11.420 and not a suit and tie, that's also a statement. Totally. Totally. But you're still operating within

00:58:16.920 a given aesthetic Overton window. You know, the concept of the Overton window, right? Yeah.

00:58:21.760 We have an aesthetic one as well, where you're not going to, I mean,

00:58:25.080 men wearing dresses is one. Exactly. And that's not rebellious anymore. Right. And here's the

00:58:31.640 problem is that when we, when regular red blooded men give up the concern for aesthetics,

00:58:39.160 then that's what allows the androgynization of it. That's what allows the shifting of the

00:58:44.420 Overton window because there's no territory for us to hold. So the reason why you get dudes in

00:58:49.980 dresses on GQ or on men's health is because your average guy says, I don't care how I look.

00:58:55.740 Okay. So, you know, you said, you said culture decides, I actually concede that to that point

00:59:00.980 to you, because I'm thinking about it now as you're talking about this dresses in particular,

00:59:04.860 well, Pacific Islanders wear dresses, Samoans wear dresses, kilts, kilts, Scottish, the Scottish

00:59:11.000 wear dresses. It was, it was pants were outlawed in Rome because that was what the barbarians wore.

00:59:16.820 Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that's an argument that people will make is like, well,

00:59:21.960 you know, you'll, you'll, you'll, uh, criticize what's his name? Um, Harry Styles, Harry Styles

00:59:27.540 for wearing a dress and people will say, well, you know, the Scottish wear dresses. It's like,

00:59:31.880 no, they wear clothing that shapes and falls the same way, but it is infused with an entirely

00:59:37.700 different meaning. Yes. And that's determined by culture. Yep. So, okay. So what you're saying

00:59:43.780 is that there's the Overton window and your job, not your job specifically, but our job as men

00:59:51.080 is to fight, figure out where the Overton window is and put ourselves deliberately intentionally

00:59:57.460 somewhere on that scale of that Overton. That's congruent with how we are as individuals,

01:00:01.220 not that I'm going to create my identity based on where I fall within that Overton window,

01:00:06.500 but I'm going to find where I fall within that Overton window based on what my identity is.

01:00:12.380 Cause again, really good style, a strong presence. And this is why you get guys who can look awesome,

01:00:18.200 but their body language and everything else is really self-conscious. And so it totally

01:00:21.700 undermines everything. It's because they're trying to use their clothes to create an identity

01:00:25.660 as opposed to trying to an express, trying to express an identity. Exactly. So you have to know who you

01:00:31.820 are and then let your clothing match that you can tweak it a little bit where you dress like the

01:00:36.520 best version of yourself so that it pulls you a little bit. But if you get too far, then it creates

01:00:43.360 a whole host of problems. And that's what most men are afraid of. That's why they don't want to dress

01:00:47.560 like your, your, uh, your guy. Yeah. Yeah. The cowhide guy. Uh, I think about Conor McGregor,

01:00:54.300 you know, he's, he's obviously he, the, the personas first and then the pinstripe FU thing

01:01:01.460 is right. Complimentary. And the status is there too. Cause if he wasn't a good enough fighter to

01:01:06.100 be able to pull that off, it wouldn't have worked. And it should, you know, the other thing it does

01:01:09.560 too, is he didn't go so far outside of the Overton window that people were like, you're ridiculous.

01:01:14.180 Like Dennis Rodman is what I think. Right. Cause it was so masculine without going into the

01:01:19.500 androgyny or the craziness that Dennis Rodman did. And so I think what Conor McGregor did,

01:01:24.280 and if you look, you've probably looked at this more than I have, he actually shifted the Overton

01:01:29.100 window. Yeah. Dennis Rodman did not shift the Overton window. No, because he was too far outside

01:01:32.460 of it. But Conor shifted, especially in the fighting world. Right. People get dressed,

01:01:36.820 fighters are getting dressed up. It's not just tap out t-shirts anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

01:01:42.020 Yep. There's a lot to unpack here. Yep. I'm your, maybe one day I'll be like the perfect case

01:01:48.900 study for you, dude. Here's what this guy, look at what this guy did in his t-shirts and his hat

01:01:54.260 and just imagine, imagine what he would do. But what I love is that you just, you hold on to it

01:01:59.960 so much. It matters to you so much. I get, look, I get it. I've never said anything to the contrary.

01:02:06.920 Right. I've, I've always agreed with you. You know, it may have some differences in the way,

01:02:11.040 like we, we present it totally, but I've, I get it. It's just like, is it worth the effort?

01:02:17.320 Well, and the only thing that I'll say both to you and to the guys who are, who are tuning in on

01:02:22.200 this is that the right way to do this. And this is why asking your wife or hiring a stylist or

01:02:28.580 something else is so wrong or doing one of these box things, right? Yeah. Subscription box. This is

01:02:34.120 why this is so bogus because the right way to do it is not changing what you wear. It's expanding

01:02:40.380 what you wear because you don't want to be the one dimensional trucker hat and t-shirt guy or the

01:02:47.400 suit and tie guy or the, but why don't I want to be that? Because you're more than that.

01:02:52.440 It's like, it's like if you only used a certain limited vocabulary in your speech, it's like the

01:02:57.780 guys who have to swear every other word because they're incapable of articulating themselves or

01:03:02.300 they don't know how to talk to children versus talking to adults. They don't know how to speak

01:03:06.300 appropriately in a library versus in a stadium. You're not one dimensional and there's nothing

01:03:10.840 masculine about being one dimensional. And so I'm not saying you need to change who you are.

01:03:15.780 There's nothing wrong with wearing a graphic t-shirt and your hat in the right context,

01:03:19.960 but I don't want you to handicap yourself because you hold on to that manifestation of your identity

01:03:25.060 so much that you can't choose a better option in better context.

01:03:29.020 In an appropriate moment.

01:03:30.040 Exactly. And not to mention the influence, the authority, the credibility that people will grant

01:03:37.180 you. Right. You know, you talk a lot about like first impressions, for example, you know,

01:03:41.220 we all formulate them and people say, well, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

01:03:44.560 Yes, you should.

01:03:45.440 Well, but we do.

01:03:46.480 Yeah.

01:03:47.000 Whether you should or shouldn't.

01:03:48.140 No, being an adult is that you change your assessment after you get new information,

01:03:51.980 but you should judge a book by its cover. 100%. That's how you know if something is a threat.

01:03:58.160 Oh, that lion may be nice. Shut up.

01:04:00.340 Yeah. Yeah. Good point.

01:04:01.740 Shut up.

01:04:03.080 That's a good point. All right. So look, let's just tell the guys where to go because they just

01:04:09.260 need to start working with you. Yeah. You know, and I know you got a lot of different programs

01:04:13.700 and options and availability and things like that based on what people are looking for,

01:04:18.160 but where do guys connect with you to learn more about what you're doing?

01:04:20.440 Okay. So if you're social media guys, best places to find me are on Twitter and Instagram

01:04:24.900 and it's Twitter. Your Twitter account is awesome.

01:04:26.880 Thank you. It's, it's awesome.

01:04:28.900 Twitter's a box. I just love that you piss people off. That's my favorite thing. I'm

01:04:32.680 like, okay, let me jump on. Oh, there's Tanner. Oh yeah.

01:04:36.200 Antagonizing that guy.

01:04:37.080 Yeah. He pissed people off. That's good. But also I don't think you do it to piss people

01:04:41.300 off. I just like to tell the truth.

01:04:42.860 Byproduct of what you say.

01:04:44.100 Yeah, absolutely.

01:04:45.100 At Tanner Guzzi for both Twitter and Instagram. If you guys want to start, like I said, start

01:04:50.280 with the internal identity. I have a quiz where you can do that. So if you go to

01:04:54.780 masculine dash style.com, there's an option there where you can take what's my archetype

01:04:58.980 quiz. You guys know the concept of archetypes. Most of you have, you know, studied Peterson

01:05:03.440 and all that.

01:05:04.220 Yeah.

01:05:04.440 The archetype thing. So, but you're not really helping them discover who they are internally.

01:05:11.920 Are you?

01:05:12.480 Mm hmm. Because the way that I interpret it is okay. But look, it's easy to say, well,

01:05:17.640 I want to be like James Bond.

01:05:18.720 Right.

01:05:19.500 Okay. Well, everybody wants to be James Bond.

01:05:21.140 You're not refined like that. You're rugged.

01:05:22.460 And everybody wants to be him.

01:05:23.760 Right.

01:05:24.040 He's also, he can be rugged too.

01:05:25.580 Oh, totally. The Daniel Craig James Bond is incredibly, yeah.

01:05:28.600 Right.

01:05:29.280 Very different than Brosnan or yeah.

01:05:31.060 So that's, uh, so I think it'd be easy to say, well, I want to look like that guy.

01:05:35.520 Well, hold on. Do you, does that work for you?

01:05:37.360 Right. So are you going that deep?

01:05:38.800 Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because, and this is where it's even more than the archetype because okay,

01:05:43.500 rugged, great. Rugged can be Yellowstone. Rugged can be a triathlete because you, you engage with

01:05:50.060 the world physically that way. Rugged can be a whole host of different things. And so if you guys,

01:05:54.520 I mean, we've done a whole other episode on this, you and I, that you can go back and listen to another

01:05:59.380 one if you want to dive deeper into those things. But if you want to figure out what yours is,

01:06:03.000 that gets you on the mailing list. That kind of gets you plugged into the ecosystem is go take

01:06:06.600 the archetype quiz. Seven questions. Super easy. Yeah.

01:06:09.900 We'll sync guys up, let them know where to go. And then I'll, I'll go first guys. I'll be the

01:06:14.140 case study. And then you can, you can see if I look better. No, no, no. Okay. Hold on. Let me back

01:06:20.380 up. Expanded. Not that if I look better, that if you, if I have more influence with you guys.

01:06:26.320 Okay. Let's do it.

01:06:27.480 All right. I'm in. We're going to make it happen. Tanner, I appreciate you, man. I know,

01:06:30.980 I know we get, we, we get along. We've been friends for a long time. We see things pretty,

01:06:34.980 pretty similarly. And even in disagreement or not entirely seeing our own viewpoint, you know,

01:06:40.000 it's always good to have these conversations and chat about this stuff. And for somebody who,

01:06:44.200 you know, doesn't care about it, I do care quite a bit about it. So I appreciate you.

01:06:49.240 I love you, man. Thanks for having me on.

01:06:50.660 All right, guys, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Tanner Guzzi. I hope that you

01:06:56.020 enjoyed that conversation. Really. I hope that you're walking away with a new perspective

01:07:01.060 to consider when it comes to how you present yourself, how you look, how clothing and appearance

01:07:07.300 is a big part of garnering influence with other people so that you can help them get what they

01:07:12.260 want. And ultimately you can get what you want as well. As we close things down, make sure you check

01:07:18.420 out Tanner on Twitter. He's very active over there. He's also very active on Instagram. And then he's got

01:07:24.240 a book that we didn't even talk about in the podcast. Uh, that's called the appearance of power.

01:07:30.080 So you're also going to want to check that book out. Uh, and then on the last parting note, make sure

01:07:35.140 guys, if you would leave those ratings and reviews, that's very, very important for boosting the

01:07:40.320 visibility. And it's not just about the visibility. It's also about getting this information into the head

01:07:47.300 and hands of those men who need to hear what it is we all have to say. So leave those ratings and

01:07:54.520 reviews, go connect with Tanner, pick up a copy of his book, subscribe to the podcast, do all the

01:07:59.240 things you know what to do guys. Also check out the battle ready course at order of man.com slash

01:08:03.480 battle ready. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow until then go out there, take action

01:08:08.340 and become a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

01:08:13.760 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join

01:08:18.500 the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 14, 2021

TANNER GUZY ｜ The Power of Presence

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