Teaching Daughters About Masculinity, Advice for New Fathers, and the Importance of Fatherly Intentionality ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
In honor of Father's Day, we ll be releasing an episode on Friday, specifically regarding fathers. But I figured we d solicit some questions about fatherhood specifically from members of the Foundry and the Facebook group, which just passed 70,000 members.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. All right, man. Well, we're on a time crunch today. I want to get
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through as many questions as possible because in honor of Father's Day, which I'm going to be
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releasing an episode on Friday specifically regarding fathers, so make sure you subscribe.
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But I figured we'd solicit some questions about fatherhood specifically from members of the
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foundry and the Facebook group, which just passed 70,000 members, which is unreal. There's a video
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video on our YouTube channel that has almost 2 million views. And I'm like, I'm still blown away
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by that. I mean, literally at this point, millions of men are being positively impacted by the work
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we're doing. And that sounds so weird to me. It sounds like her hyperbole, like, Oh, millions of
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people will be impacted. It's legitimately millions at this point. It's unreal. And it's humbling to say the
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least. And, and just your poor mom having to hit refresh to get the count up.
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2 million times. Well, it's not only my mom, it's my wife. So they've only done it a million times
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each. All right, man. Let's get to the questions as quickly as possible. Cause I know I'm on a time
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crunch. You're on a time crunch. I want to get through as many of these as we can.
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Sounds good. So these first handful of questions are coming from the iron council to learn more,
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go to order of man.com slash iron council. First question, Robert Peterson. How does a man raise
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a young girl in a world that seems to demean masculinity, showing her and others that masculinity
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and being a man are not bad things as they would like to try to show it to be?
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Yeah. You just get her around good men. That could be, that's you. Hopefully you would. I hope you fit
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that bill. Potentially your grandfather or grandfathers, siblings, uncles, even men in your
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circle. And then you show her what being a good, knowable, capable, courageous, honorable man looks
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like. And then depending on her age or her maturity level, you connect the dots. I think this is where
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a lot of guys fall short. What they'll do is they'll say, well, I'm being in a great example.
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Well, that's good. But sometimes kids don't connect the dots. So it's your job to, um,
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instead of just hoping that through osmosis, she learns that uncle John is a great man,
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explain to her some stories about uncle John. Hey, uncle John served in the military and he did this.
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And, uh, when there was people in his neighborhood who were sick, he brought them food and that's
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what great men do. So we, we connect the dots. We, we have the experience and the example, and then
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we have the story, the narration that goes around it. We need to make sure that they're picking up on
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those examples, right? Because otherwise they're going to interpret it through their little eyes and
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their little ears and their little brains and also their experiences too. Yeah. Right. And, and I hate
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to say it this way, but let's, let's just say, and this is, this is horrific, but it needs to be
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said. Let's just say that a young girl has been molested or raped by her uncle. Again, horrific, but
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let's just assume for a second that's happened in her mind. If she is, if she doesn't deal with this
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or learn to deal with this through adults in a healthy manner, she might make the connection that
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because she was molested, that all men are a threat to her. And I would argue that there is a
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large percentage of women who believe that because they've had a potentially horrific encounter or
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experience with a man and have equated it to all men behaving that way. Or, or even got that story
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from someone else and they've made that their own. And exactly. So it's your job to give her the
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experience, the positive experience and surround her with men who are going to show her that and then
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make the connections so that she learns the right stories, makes those correct calculations so that
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she can have a healthy perspective of honorable, capable, good men. Same goes for boys, by the way.
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I mean, this is not exclusive to daughters either. So. I like it. I think one thing that's been really
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present for me lately, Ryan is, is that to make it appealing, you know, I, it's funny when I think of
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my ideal day, it's like productivity. I got this done. I did this. I came home above. And,
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and I'm like being a great dad, husband, man, accomplishing all these things. And then I think
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about it from my kid's perspective and I look pissed. I look angry. I look like in the zone and
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that's just me in the zone. It doesn't look fun. It doesn't look enjoyable. It's not pleasant.
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And, and, and I've been really trying to be cautious that my productivity doesn't come across
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unappealing. The dad's like a boring drone. That's always upset and intense, but not enjoyable.
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Right. And so I've been really trying to like be fun, be joyful, be playful and communicate those
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things. So then that way they are attracted to wanting to be like me, that my sons want to be
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like that because they don't want to be productive for productive sake. Right. It needs to be a little
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bit more appealing. You know, I don't come home and they go, geez, dad, I want to be like you. Cause
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you got so much work done today. Right. They want to be like me because I'm happy. Right. And I'm
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joyful and fulfilled. Right. And I got to make sure that, that I'm communicating that way of being.
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Yes. A hundred percent. You're going to say something. Sorry. Uh, I think I was just going
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to say, and sometimes you have to be in, in the zone, if you will. So then just explain it.
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Just explain it like this attitude of, Oh, because I said so just because I am, it's not going to fly.
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It's not productive. It's not healthy. Yeah. So instead, Hey, bud, I really want to engage with
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what you're doing. I want to roll with you. I want to wrestle with you. You want to play. I want to,
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you know, play that game or I want to spend time with you, go fishing, whatever.
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I've, I've got to take 30 minutes and I've really got to dedicate 30 minutes undivided attention on
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this task. And if I can get this done in 30 minutes and put all of my energy into it without
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distractions, because this has to be done. These are the priorities we have. And men are about
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dealing with our priorities. So I got to do this. And then when I'm done, then I'm yours.
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Yeah. So you explain it and then you follow through. Meaning if you said 30 minutes, you got to be
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done in 30 minutes and you got to like tune this thing out. This, for those of you who are watching
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the video, the cell phone, right? You got to tune the cell phone out, put it in your pocket, turn it
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off, keep it at home and be fully present. Cause you said you were going to be. Yeah. So you got to
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honor the commitment on both sides, the priority of your work and the priority of your child.
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I like it. And the lessons being learned there is just awesome, right? It's like, Oh, okay. Like
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that's what, that's what you need to do to focus and get something done and boundaries and all kinds of
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other lessons. And you can even say, Hey, you know what, bud, I'm going to, um, I'm going to
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just leave my cell phone at home because I want to be fully present with you. And sometimes this
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turns into a distraction. Yeah. And I just talk, open your mouth and share. And I like that because
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that's a connecting the dots even in that little instance is like, Hey, just so you know, I'm being
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fully present. Exactly. Right. I'm going to put this away. Like they may not even notice that you put the
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phone away. So it might benefit you to let them know that you're doing that. Yeah. Explain. And that's why I
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was saying earlier is this whole thing. And I think it's an outdated view of like, respect me
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because I demand it. No, earn it. Even with your children, earn the level of respect and communicate
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your intentions, communicate what you're doing. This is not only good for you, it's good for them
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because then the learning, Oh, Oh, okay. So when I have a cell phone and they will write my 12 year
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old's like, dad, I really want a cell phone. Don't do it. Like, no, of course I'm not. I have no intention
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of doing that this early, but when he does eventually he will, right. Then I want him to
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have a healthy relationship with it. If I have an unhealthy relationship with it and I'm not willing
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to communicate thoughts and ideas and the way I want to make sure that this is a tool that's used
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for good, not distraction. I have to have those conversations and I need to be able to communicate
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with him what that looks like so that he can have a healthy relationship with it as well.
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Yeah. Got it. All right. Josh, uh, uh, Wickland, I grew up in a family where you always walk away
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from a fight and turn the other cheek. As I grow up and think more for myself, I see that there are
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times where you should fight back. How do you teach your kids the proper way to respond to physical
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altercations like when to walk away and when to fight back? Good question. That is a good question.
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Um, I, when it matters is start the fight, start the fight first, end it. Don't start it. End it.
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Um, it's just when it matters. Like that's the answer. I know, I know that's kind of vague and
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maybe even a little cryptic, but you know, if somebody calls you an asshole, it's like, okay.
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Yeah. And like, move on. No big deal. Now, if somebody's threatening me physical harm,
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right. If there's a threat of physical harm, that's something that I would say would, would
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matter. Yeah. You, you need to defend yourself, right? If, if your child is in an altercation
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where there's threat of physical harm, that's where they need to defend themselves or somebody
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else, by the way, too, if somebody else is under threat of physical harm, then it may be appropriate
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that your child steps up and that you explain to them why that's important. So really what you need
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to be able to do is teach them discernment. Does that matter? Is that relevant? What action
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should that circumstance elicit? Like what, what is it that, that I should be doing? How
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should I respond? Teaching them the differences and distinction between reaction, reacting
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versus responding. Like I look at reaction versus response is the difference between, uh, emotional
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and, and rational. Yeah. Reaction is very emotionally charged. I'm just pissed. And so I'm going to
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do the first thing that I'm going to punch them. Yeah, exactly. Versus a reactions like
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I'm pissed, which is fine. Maybe you should be, but hold on. Like, what is it that I'm trying
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to accomplish? Oh, I just want to get home to see my family tonight. Cool. Disengage. That's
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the, that's the appropriate reaction in this situation, right? Teach them the difference, the
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distinction between reaction and response, and then teach them what matters, what is relevant
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and what is irrelevant. If somebody calls your son or daughter four eyes, it's going to hurt
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their feelings, but it's not really relevant in the grand scheme of things. And so physical
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alteration isn't worth that. Yeah. We don't punch people because you're offended. Yeah.
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Right. If somebody calls, if a kid calls them four eyes and shoves them, then different. Now
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you should be able to defend yourself physically and you should be capable of that. I would also
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say putting them in some sort of martial arts is valuable because then they can actually
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learn the real life ramifications of a physical altercation. Cause I, I would, this is just
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anecdotal and maybe there's research to back it up, but I would suggest again, anecdotally
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that those who train in martial arts are significantly less likely to get into a physical altercation
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because they realize the consequences of it. Even if it's just in training, you get your
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arm yanked on, or you get your neck cranked on that hurts and potentially death could come
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from that as well. And if you're training, then you're intimately familiar with the results
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of that situation. Yeah. Same thing with, uh, law enforcement military. Like I would suggest
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that these guys don't go looking for fight. They don't, they don't want that because they
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understand life and death situations. So I remember when I was, how old was I? I must've
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been 12, 12, 13 years old. It was me and a buddy. And we got into, uh, a little altercation
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with a kid and I got in a fight with him and he kicked my ass. Cause I didn't know, like
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I didn't know how to fight. I didn't know how to throw a punch. I didn't know how to take,
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like nothing. Yeah. And I had a bloody nose and a black eye, you know, nothing, not a
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big deal. Just like a scrap, a schoolyard scrap. Right. And I came home and my, I knew
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my mom was going to be disappointed. My future stepfather did what I actually think he should
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have done. He's like, let me teach you some things. So he handled that really well. I
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thought, and she handled it like a mom would handle it. And then she got me in martial arts.
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It was Kenpo karate. And I did it for like four months and hated it. But still, I think that
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was the appropriate response. So the point I'm making is maybe get them involved in some
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martial arts, some sort of training that way. So they can feel confident, develop confidence,
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less likely to get into altercations because they understand the ramifications and it just
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develops and builds their level of confidence. And it helps them understand what's relevant
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and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. And I think that confidence and ego plays a big
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piece, right? Because it's like, I'm upset, but, but I I'm confident in my ability that
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I'm not going to, I don't need to like get angry and punch someone like a lot of martial arts.
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So certainly jujitsu has a, has a tendency to teach us humility, you know, and eliminates the
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ego. And so when, when someone's calling you name, you're, it's like the combination of those
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two things. You're like, your ego's not at play, right? You're like, okay, you call me a name.
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Like, so what? But you're also humble. Right. And you're like, uh, you know what I mean?
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It's not worth it. And so it just kind of gets in the right mindset. I think the other thing I found
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about training is that like, you never know who could kick your ass. Oh, dude. Yeah. Like the
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dorky guy. I look at you, this nerd, this like skinny nerd. And I'm like, Oh, I could totally take
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that guy right there. And then you just run circles around me. I'm a skinny looking nerd.
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All that stuff. But it's so true. Like look at 10th planet guys. I'm totally making a broad
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judgment here, but 10th planet jujitsu guys, all those guys you would have, you would, if you saw
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them on the street, you would assume they're harmless and they're all so dangerous. I don't,
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I don't know enough about it to say whether that I agree with that or not, but it's very,
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there are people who are very deceiving. There's a guy that I train with Ty Nichols.
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He's, he's smaller than me. He's, he's, he's not skinny, but he's just, he's smaller. He's
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just more of a, like a, like that kind of build, right? He's lean. He's strong. He's lean.
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Holy cow. I can't even grab this kid. Like I can't even grab him. Like I try to grab him and he's
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like behind me already. I'm like, dude, slow down. Go like 80% so I can like grab you at least.
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Hey dude, what's flow. I just want to flow, bro.
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If I grab him, it's over, but he doesn't let me grab him.
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So it's also not over if I grab him. He's pretty well, even, even if I, even if I can
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All right. Nathan Miller, what are your thoughts on child discipline? Do you have any advice on
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keeping it constructive versus being emotionally charged and reactionary?
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Yeah. I mean, this goes, he said the word reaction.
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Yeah. It goes back to reaction versus response. And you got to think, okay, what is the point of
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the discipline? Is it to punish the child? Is it to shame the child? Is it to make them feel bad or
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guilty? I don't think so. I think the point of discipline, and we're talking about disciplining
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your children from, from the perspective of, you know, like there's consequences of your actions
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is learning that lesson that there is consequences to your actions. And we are trying to correct the
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behavior, nip the behavior in the bud before it compounds and gets worse. So there has to be
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discipline because if there isn't, then the child does not learn that there is a corresponding reaction
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to their behavior, both positive and negative. And it's your job as a father to ensure, and this goes
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back to our earlier conversation about connecting the dots, that you connect the dots between behavior,
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consequence. This is also why I don't like participation trophies because behavior showing
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up, kind of doing the bare minimum and winning that doesn't go together. You're, you're forming
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the wrong connections. It's like on the, the connect the dots books that your kids play. It's like you
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going from one to 10. And then you're like, I don't know what the hell this picture is. Yes. Because
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you didn't connect the right dots. You got to go from one to two. Excel, win, just show up. Don't
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win. Those are the connect, the correct connections, right? Totally. Yeah. You don't say too many things
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that I take to heart, but you did say something the other day that I thought was pretty profound.
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I think it was last week. That was a joke, by the way. You said something last week. You just didn't
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even stop. I'm like, I'm like my brain. Is he serious? Well, I was waiting for you to like, you
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didn't even smile. You're like, um, what was he saying? Oh, you said something last week and it's
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actually stuck with me all week long. And I've been reassessing what am I trying to get my child
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to learn? And, and I, and it's funny because when you said it last week, I don't remember the exact
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context, but there's so many scenarios where it's like, um, I want my kid, my kid needs to take out
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the trash and he needs to do this work. And then he needs to, and my focus is what? That he does
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those things, but I'm not thinking about what I'm trying to get him to learn. Right. And I'm missing
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the entire point. Right. And it's not to take out the trash. It's to teach them responsibility for
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having their things. Exactly. Exactly. And what's, what I really liked about it as I thought about it this
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past week is it remove, it's removing the emotion and my focus has changed where it's not that,
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oh, my son is doing something wrong and he should do blah, blah, blah. It's, oh, okay. How do I get
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him to learn that lesson? And it's not about me, right? Because before is a little bit more about
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me, like show me respect, stick out your trash, clean your room. Yeah. Like it was more about that
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than it was really. And then I, I, I pepper it with, this is for your own good. Right. Well,
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by the way, this is really focusing on what they're going to learn. And you're going to garner
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significantly more respect when you do it in a way that has their best interest at heart.
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Yeah. You know, you're, you're actually, when you're like, I, I want respect, even if you're
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subconsciously thinking that, and you're basing your response on the respect issue, you're going to
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undermine yourself. Like your child may do it. Yeah. But not out of respect, not out of respect,
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out of fear, maybe. Right. The ramifications that come with it. You know, this is one of the reasons,
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and I've thought about this a lot. Like I don't embarrass my children when they do something they
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shouldn't. Cause the goal is not to embarrass them because if you make them feel stupid, here's what
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I've noticed. If you make them feel stupid, they won't even try it again. Yeah. Totally. So when my
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child might, one of my children messes up, I'm not going to publicly call them out because then
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they're going to be embarrassed. And what I'm, the dots I'm connecting here is don't even try that.
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Right. And it's not, that's not what it's about. So from the time that my oldest was little,
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when he would get in trouble, even at grandma and grandpa's house, and I needed to have a
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conversation with him, I would always pull him aside. Never, never in front of other people.
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Cause my goal was not to embarrass them. It's to teach them the lesson is to explain why
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and then drive on from there. And I've noticed that that talk about respect. I think that
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communicates a level of respect that you have for your child and they will respect you for it. Even
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if they don't voice it, I honestly believe not correcting. Now there's certain things, if there's
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some imminent danger or something, where, Hey, careful, you can't do that. You know,
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don't get in the road. Yeah. Right. But within reason, like I don't do it in front of people.
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I always, Hey, Hey son, I need to have a talk with you. Can you come here real quick?
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We have our two minute conversation. All right, let's go back and enjoy ourselves.
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Yeah. Well, and, and I think it's safe to say, and Nathan alluded to it, right? We already said that,
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but he says, you know, being emotionally charged, we already know that at least for me,
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when I hear that emotionally charged or I'm emotional, it's not about what lesson is my kid
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that what lesson does my kid need to learn? That is not tied to the emotional charge. That is always
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me. I'm upset. I'm whatever. It's, it's not about my kid at all. It's about me. Right.
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All right. Tim Beck, I have two girls, eight and 11, and I feel I'm too protective and fearful at times
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and don't let them experience failure or be as adventurous as I should let them be. How do you
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balance father's instinct to protect while at the same time, allowing them the opportunity to grow
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and experience failure or pain? Again, what's your motive? What's your goal? My job, and I've said
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this for years is to render myself obsolete. Yeah. So if I hover and I overprotect and I coddle and I
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don't let them experience hardship or failure or setbacks or uncomfortable situations, then I'm
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actually not doing my job. It's the antithesis of my job. They're going to be more reliant upon me,
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more dependent on me. And then when they get into the real world and things go south, they won't know
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how to handle themselves because dad always protected them from that. So I think what you've got to do is
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you've just, and look, I get it with daughters. I think he said an eight and 11 year old daughter.
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I think naturally, I feel this way about my daughter. I'm significantly more protective
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of my daughter than my sons. Significantly more. Would you agree with that? No, I'm the same way.
00:22:51.880
I think all guys are probably like that, which is kind of, I just think innately hardwired into us.
00:22:57.740
We're protectors, right? And we protect the women. So I think it's natural, but I just, I really
00:23:05.460
believe that what you need to do is you just need to evaluate and consider what is your job.
00:23:11.120
And, and when you think about these things before you get into the heat of the moment,
00:23:14.660
or you get upset, or you want to be protective, or you see something that's scary or uncomfortable
00:23:18.540
for them. If you have the underlying principle already established, then you're more likely to
00:23:23.760
make decisions based on what that principle is. But if you're just winging it, man, it's just not
00:23:30.140
going to work. I was talking with Dave Burke years ago. And I think about this in the, he's a top gun
00:23:35.260
fighter pilot, right? And I think about it in the context of that there's situations and things he can do
00:23:40.720
with a plane because he knows the fundamentals. You can't just jump ahead. You can't just jump
00:23:49.840
from A to Z. You've got to know all of the fundamentals and have those things in place.
00:23:54.600
And that way you can be more creative when you find yourself in a situation that you have to deal with,
00:24:00.500
but you have to know the foundations, the fundamentals. This is why in the book,
00:24:04.380
Sovereignty, The Battle for the Hearts and Minds of Men, I talk about your code of conduct.
00:24:07.640
It's the operating system by which you will operate and work before you get into this heat of the
00:24:14.540
moment. This is the same reason guys will say when they cheat on their wives, oh man, I just lost
00:24:19.580
myself. Or, you know, I just got caught up in the moment, right? Because you didn't establish your
00:24:26.320
rules before the situation happened. Because if one of your rules was that you don't spend time alone
00:24:34.700
with other women, for example, you wouldn't even got yourself into that situation.
00:24:40.540
So you need to establish your rules. And it's the same thing with your kids. If your rule or your job
00:24:45.500
at its most fundamental level is to render yourself obsolete, then you can measure all of your actions
00:24:50.600
against this and ask yourself, is what I'm doing right now allowing me, or excuse me, allowing them to
00:24:58.400
be fully self-sufficient contributing members of society, or is it hindering it? And then you measure
00:25:04.360
it back against your rule and then take the correct course of action from there.
00:25:10.300
Yeah. And I'd like to point out that you're going to feel uncomfortable. Like we moved to this last
00:25:17.520
week. Like the feeling of like, oh, I got to protect my daughter. Like that's kind of about you,
00:25:24.760
not necessarily about her too. So don't just rely on your instincts thinking, oh, well,
00:25:30.300
that doesn't feel natural. That's no, no, no. It's going to feel uncomfortable. I just want to put
00:25:34.560
that out. Well, I mean, putting yourself out of a job. Yeah. And then you, and then you add the emotion
00:25:41.240
of love and yeah, my kids child into the world. That sounds like a great feeling. Yeah. I mean,
00:25:47.540
I go to sleep every night thinking, cause what I do, one of my things at night is I go around the
00:25:51.780
house. I locked down the house. Right. And then I check on each one of my four kids. And every time
00:25:57.100
I look at him, I'm like, man, like my oldest, as his feet are hanging over the bed and he's getting
00:26:03.060
huge. I'm like, I'm not doing this for much longer. And that's not, I don't like that. I go to bed
00:26:09.480
every night, kind of like sad a little bit in a way, you know, but such as life. It's true.
00:26:16.260
And then you're like, man, I need to keep training. He's getting bigger.
00:26:19.880
He wears my shoes. Oh, he, his, his, his feet are as big as he's 12. Barely. He's barely 12. He
00:26:28.440
wears my same size shoe. He wears my shirts. He steals my shirts out of the drawer. He's a big old
00:26:35.580
pass. You better yank him out of jujitsu. You don't want him learning anything else.
00:26:40.840
You're like, no more. You don't need that stuff. He is going to be, he's going to be a force to be
00:26:47.600
reckoned with. Oh, I love it. All right. Frank crates. What is the best way for a man to come
00:26:54.420
along the side of a boy who does not have a father in order to help fulfill that role for him in a way
00:26:59.660
that has the best chance you're encouraging him and his willingness? I mean, I don't really know
00:27:06.420
the situation. Of course, it's got to be an appropriate situation, right? So that's one
00:27:12.420
thing you got to be careful, especially in this day and age. So I don't, I don't know if you're his
00:27:16.880
uncle or if there's some sort of like leadership capacity, or this is a family member or if it's
00:27:22.260
just a neighborhood kid. And obviously the greater distance, the more you really ought to be careful
00:27:27.240
of that and just go through the appropriate channels. Let's just assume it's an appropriate
00:27:31.920
relationship. And you'll have to dictate what that is. I, cause I don't know the situation,
00:27:37.460
the circumstances. I think you just involve him. I just think, you know, you, you never do anything,
00:27:44.960
not alone, but like you never do anything without explaining your actions. And this goes back to
00:27:51.100
connecting the dots again. Like if me and my son, for example, are doing orders and I'm doing something,
00:27:56.140
I'm not just going to crank it out. I always explain, oh, I'm doing this because X, Y, and Z.
00:28:00.620
Like the other day, I'll give you an example. The other day we had, what happened? Oh, somebody got
00:28:06.640
the wrong shirt. They ordered a shirt and we sent them the wrong style or the wrong size of something
00:28:12.020
like that. And I said, okay, well here's, so here's how we respond to this. So we emailed them
00:28:17.020
back and we said, Hey, you know, sorry, we messed up your order. And I told him, let me, let me go
00:28:22.200
through the email first. So I went, sorry, we messed up your order. Here's what we think it
00:28:26.540
happened. And what we'll do is we're going to send you the right shirt. And why don't you just keep
00:28:33.440
the other shirt? You can either have it, or maybe you want to gift it to somebody just as a way to
00:28:37.260
say, thank you for your support. And sorry, we messed up. It was something like that. And then I
00:28:41.980
explained to him, I said, okay, so let's break this email down. The first thing we did is we said,
00:28:47.060
I am sorry, not we apologize, not sorry for the inconvenience. I am sorry. What that means is
00:28:55.400
I accept responsibility for screwing up your order. So that's the first step. We always accept
00:29:02.820
responsibility. The second step is we explain not to make excuses, but just to give some context.
00:29:09.000
So they understand, Hey, here's what happened. I'm sorry. Here's what happened. Then the third thing we
00:29:14.660
do is we correct it, right? So we're going to send you a shirt on us on your way. We already sent it
00:29:22.540
off. And then the fourth thing we do is go above and beyond, which means, Hey, why don't you just go
00:29:28.480
ahead and keep that shirt for your troubles, gift it to somebody, keep it, whatever you want to do.
00:29:33.200
We really appreciate your support. Thank you. Now I could have very easily just typed up that message,
00:29:39.080
hit send and say, ah, it's done, bud. It's all taken care of. Yeah. But he would have learned nothing
00:29:43.920
from it. Instead, take a step back. It took me longer, took me two minutes longer to have to
00:29:49.380
explain it. And I don't have like a lot of time to spend on it. But again, my job is to render myself
00:29:54.720
obsolete. So I have to explain this to him. So in the context of what this gentleman is asking,
00:30:00.080
you know, if you're, if, if you're working on your car, Hey, bud, like come over, I'm replacing the
00:30:06.040
carburetor on my car. I think it'd be cool for you to check out. If you, if you're going to go for a run
00:30:10.500
or go shoot guns or go play basketball or whatever it is you're doing, just involve him, bring them
00:30:15.000
in, loop them into the process. The more you can get him involved. And by the way, these don't have
00:30:19.920
to be like dedicated teaching moments because there's learning going on when your head's in the
00:30:27.240
car and you're working on a carburetor, there's learning going on outside of how to replace the
00:30:32.200
carburetor. Yeah. So again, it's not like dedicated. Let me mentor you. Let me guide. No,
00:30:38.380
just involve him and what you're involved with. And he will start picking these things up if you're
00:30:42.940
willing to explain them. Yeah. And then look for those opportunities to connect the dots.
00:30:47.940
Yes. Yes. Got it. All right. Good question so far. I know the connect the dots theme on today's
00:30:55.520
podcast. All right. Bart Foltz, I'm hoping to be a father soon. Congratulations, man. Yeah. Him and his
00:31:02.960
wife, they've been working on this and I respect both of you tremendously in the role in that role in
00:31:08.280
your lives. What words of wisdom can you give me as my wife and I begin this adventure?
00:31:15.600
Look, everybody's going to tell you, you know, like, oh, just be patient. You're not going to
00:31:19.840
get any sleep and, you know, take care of her. And all of that stuff's right, by the way.
00:31:25.620
That's all accurate. So take that to heart. That's what you're going to get. I'm just telling
00:31:31.900
you the thing that you won't hear a lot is take care of yourself. Like, don't lose yourself in the
00:31:40.720
work of being a father. Find ways to disengage, find meaningful hobbies and interests and activities
00:31:48.980
and things that you can be engaged in. We were at training the other night and Jay was there and he
00:31:54.940
had hurt his shoulder, I think. And so he wasn't training. And after training was over and I said,
00:31:59.640
hey, you know, like, are you okay? He's like, yeah, my shoulder's been hurting. I think I'm
00:32:02.920
going to come back in a couple of weeks. And I said, oh, okay, well, so how come you're here?
00:32:07.040
And he's like, to get away from my family. And he said it kind of jokingly. And then he explained,
00:32:11.320
he's like, no, I just think it's good for me to come here and to be here and be surrounded with you
00:32:16.000
guys. And then also to just disengage from the family stuff so they can do their thing. I can do my
00:32:21.380
thing. So even though I'm not training, it's still a good thing. Like I thought that was really
00:32:24.960
insightful because most guys just wouldn't go, right? Yeah. Because he couldn't train.
00:32:29.640
But, but he gets it. He understands it. He understands that he's got to take time for
00:32:35.460
himself and he does it. And he's probably a better husband and father because he's willing
00:32:39.680
to do that. So that's, that's my, that's my bit of advice is don't ditch your friends.
00:32:47.620
Don't lose your hobbies. Find a way to take care of yourself. You're going to be a much more engaged
00:32:52.620
father and husband if you manage to continue to do that. Yeah. And I'd beat intentionality.
00:32:58.860
It's funny. I was, who was I talking about? I was talking with someone about this idea is like,
00:33:04.680
we have these careers, right? And we're just like, okay, I'm going to get training and I'm
00:33:08.860
going to get coaching. I'm going to go to college. And then when it comes to parenting,
00:33:12.160
we're kind of like, oh, well, I'll just act on my emotions. And it's like, really?
00:33:19.440
Yeah. We wing fatherhood, but we don't wing anything else. You don't wing your job. So don't
00:33:27.980
wing fatherhood. So be intentional about it. Don't wing it. And, and, and to add to your point,
00:33:35.220
Ryan, I think, and it's a little bit tougher, but I think there's some opportunity for you to
00:33:39.200
help your wife not lose herself in becoming a new mom as well. And look for those opportunities to
00:33:44.680
help her do the same. She might feel guilty for it, but try. That's what I was going to say.
00:33:49.900
Cause the interesting thing is as a mother, she's going to pride herself on being fully
00:33:54.280
committed and fully engaged. And anything contrary to that is going to make her feel less than as a
00:34:02.340
mother. Cause she won't be able to see that taking care of yourself is actually a better way to
00:34:09.640
approach it and will make you more capable as a mother. Like she won't see that guys struggle with
00:34:13.620
this too. They feel guilty for taking care of themselves because they can't see that it's
00:34:18.440
actually making you a better husband or father. And it's making her a better wife and mother.
00:34:24.840
Yeah. And on the flip side, they might generate resentment and frustration and burnout all while
00:34:31.220
going, you know, that'd be selfish for me. It's like, it's good for them. So it is.
00:34:37.420
Yeah. That's a good point. All right. Jordan, uh, Schink, how do you teach or inspire your sons
00:34:43.380
and daughters to have positive attitude? Many men in my family, uh, with whom I work with are
00:34:48.980
plagued with negative attitudes. In my opinion, it is one of the most unattractive qualities anybody can
00:34:54.480
have. I think you just solicit conversations about the positivity. You know, when we're around the
00:35:02.280
dinner table, for example, one of the things we do is what was the best part of your day? I don't
00:35:06.720
think we've ever asked like, what was the worst part of your day? It's always what you hate most
00:35:15.260
about your life. Yeah. Right. Like what, what about you? Would you like change if you could? No,
00:35:21.160
it's never, it's not, it's not that right. It's always like, what do you like? What do you like
00:35:25.800
best about the day? What, how do you, what are you most proud of? Yeah. You know? And then when
00:35:31.740
they have situations where I hate taking out the trash, just tell them, Hey, flip that around.
00:35:38.220
If you didn't have to take out the trash, what would that mean? Well, it means you wouldn't
00:35:44.220
have any trash. Okay, good. So what does our trash consist of? Toy wrappers, boxes from Amazon,
00:35:52.680
food scraps, like all things that are nice, that we get to enjoy, that we have the luxury of enjoying.
00:36:01.760
Yeah. The trash is, is a representation of all the greatness that we have. Yeah, exactly. So
00:36:07.280
we should be grateful and again, connect the dots, right? So flip it, flip it. When somebody says
00:36:13.920
something negative, say, well, oh, I don't like her because of this. Well, what's one thing you
00:36:19.140
actually respect about that person? Like, what if you challenge your kid to that? Oh, I,
00:36:26.720
a little Johnny at school is such a jerk because of blah, blah, blah. Really? Yeah. Well, that sounds
00:36:32.060
like a jerk for sure. But what's one thing you actually really respect about them?
00:36:37.800
Like just ask that and get them to think about, oh, well, I guess he's really good at soccer.
00:36:43.420
That's cool. You know, and then talk about, right. Talk about that instead. So you can flip these
00:36:48.920
scripts if you're willing to do it and you're willing to have the conversations and just invest
00:36:52.100
and pour a little time into them. You can flip these scripts and talk about it. And I don't think
00:36:57.640
it's that difficult. You just condition it. I think for, uh, Jordan, obviously maybe not applicable,
00:37:03.460
but for some of those guys that are default behavior seems to be negative. Um, uh, Tom bill,
00:37:08.920
you had a great quote the other day and it was something about general, you know, using a habit
00:37:14.140
loop to connect positive thought. And, and the suggestion was every single time you have a
00:37:18.840
negative thought, like at that, literally at that moment, like pause and do exactly what you're
00:37:23.100
doing, but do it in your own mind for yourself. Right. You know, because that's, and that's kind
00:37:28.320
of a given to this, right? It's like we, you can suggest to your kid all you want, but if you're
00:37:32.580
running around super negative all the time around your children, that's not going to help either.
00:37:37.020
Right. So you obviously need to be in a positive state. And, and I like that idea of a, almost
00:37:42.220
kind of a hijacking the habit loop to inject my own positive thoughts. Every single time I have
00:37:46.600
a negative one, I was like, Oh, kind of like that. I, so I learned this lesson that I'm going to sound
00:37:51.400
like a total jerk, but I learned this lesson when I was probably 11 years old. I remember I was at an
00:37:57.900
assembly. I don't know why I remember this story and there was a moment. It must've been,
00:38:02.600
but there was this girl who got up. I'm sounding like such an asshole. And I, my initial thought
00:38:08.860
was, Whoa, she is really ugly. Like that was what was in my head. I was like, Oh, she is ugly.
00:38:15.060
Yeah. And then she sat down and she started playing the piano. And I was like, Holy cow. Like,
00:38:25.120
I mean, she was 11 or 12 years old. I'm like, that was beautiful. Like that was amazing.
00:38:31.220
And it just dawned on me. It's like, every time you can, you can choose what you see, right?
00:38:37.000
I chose to see that she was unattractive and, you know, maybe that was right, you know, but that's
00:38:43.320
what I focused on. Yeah. And I didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt of assuming that maybe
00:38:49.700
there was some other things that were actually really beautiful about her. And I found that out
00:38:53.960
in that moment. Hopefully I'm glad I learned that lesson quickly, but yeah, for every person that has
00:38:59.020
some sort of negative, I had this friend and he was, he was a jerk, man. He was so like,
00:39:05.520
at least I thought he was when I first met him. I'm like, man, I don't like this guy.
00:39:09.740
I do not like this guy. And he was arrogant and he was pompous. He was just kind of a jerk.
00:39:16.440
And then I went, he was a neighbor and I went through some rough times. I won't get into all
00:39:19.740
the specifics, but I went through some rough times. He was the only one that was there.
00:39:26.040
The only one that was there for me in those rough times. And that's the guy I thought who was a jerk
00:39:31.900
and he was arrogant and he was full of shit. And he was the only one that was there.
00:39:35.940
Hmm. So we, you know, you can see what you choose to focus on and you'll find it.
00:39:44.300
Totally. If you want to find something wrong with Kip, you and me, that's pretty easy to do,
00:39:47.740
right? But you can find it or you can choose to focus on, Hey, you know, here's some things that
00:39:54.700
we like about what they're doing. And you can do that with any individual, any circumstance,
00:39:58.080
any, any moment, whatever it may, I had Wes Watson, any argument. I had Wes Watson, spent 10 years in
00:40:05.380
the state penitentiary. He, he found meaning and purpose. And I wouldn't say beauty necessarily.
00:40:12.900
I don't think he'd use that word, but he found value in it. And he transformed his life in the
00:40:20.000
most, I can't even imagine. I mean, he was in solitary confinement for months, months and months.
00:40:25.960
Some of the most horrific circumstances that he found himself in and found is not the right word,
00:40:31.260
put himself into. And he found purpose, meaning significant and goodness there. And then has now
00:40:39.300
translated it over to his life and has made an incredible life for himself and his wife and his
00:40:46.320
son and millions of people. Yeah. To, to just add one additional thought to this whole thing.
00:40:54.020
We have a, we have a tendency to, to pigeonhole people as a fixed way of being. And I think that
00:41:01.460
also, let's say, you know, we are dealing with someone and they are a jerk. Like, you know,
00:41:06.680
I've tried to spin it, Ryan. And you know, this guy's just horrible, but there's also growth.
00:41:13.860
We believe in progress, right? We believe a person can change, right? And that in itself gives us hope
00:41:21.440
to realize that people might be in that place in their life, right? They may be just on the wrong
00:41:26.040
path right now, right? But the path isn't over. They're not in a box. You know, although we,
00:41:32.100
our tendency is to put people in boxes, like growth is possible, right? And, and sometimes it's just the
00:41:37.920
compassion of letting them grow and letting them work through whatever they need to work with gives
00:41:42.680
this hope, you know, and, and maybe see them as maybe their potential, not so much, you know,
00:41:48.900
the current state of being. And I, I, it's just a powerful way I think for, at least for me to see
00:41:53.140
people when I struggle with negative thoughts about people. Yeah. There could, there was a quote,
00:41:58.200
I can't remember it, but it was something along the lines of seeing people, not how they are, but
00:42:02.800
who, not who they are, but who they could be. It was something along those lines.
00:42:06.680
Yeah. Which was how we see our kids. Yeah. Right. And hopefully ourselves too. I mean,
00:42:12.280
that's what hope is. Yeah. And without hope, like life would be miserable. Yeah. If you don't
00:42:19.200
believe in progress and hope, what is there? Yeah. Like if you don't believe that tomorrow will be
00:42:23.500
better than today, like at some level, like tomorrow has, not that it's guaranteed, but that
00:42:28.540
tomorrow there's a potential that, that it would be better than today, then you wouldn't get out of
00:42:34.500
bed in the morning. So you already, you, we know you have hope because you got out of bed.
00:42:40.600
Yeah. It might be buried. It might be covered. It might be hard to see, but somewhere inside of
00:42:45.100
you, there is some hope. Otherwise you wouldn't, you wouldn't. Yeah. Totally. Um, this might be a
00:42:51.460
good last question for us. I'll let you decide. Last question within the iron council, Dennis Morris,
00:42:56.020
a riff off your signature question. He says, what does it mean to be a father?
00:43:00.420
Well, I don't have it as defined. I would say is like the protector provider presider, but I think
00:43:08.480
I allude to it when I say it's your job is to raise self-sufficient adults. That's the job of a
00:43:15.380
father, which by the way, it doesn't have to be biological. There's fathering that can take place
00:43:21.600
in your community. And it should, when I coach young men in baseball or football, I feel that I'm
00:43:27.540
in a fatherhood role. I'm not their dad. I'm not saying I'm their dad, but there's fathering going
00:43:32.200
on because I'm raising self-sufficient adults, not, not kids. I'm not raising kids. Understand the
00:43:39.460
distinction. Yeah. That's a good point. Like you're not raising children. You're raising adults.
00:43:45.200
They just happen to be children right now. So your job has to be on the longterm of, Hey, in 20 years,
00:43:51.320
is this going to be a functioning, contributing self-sufficient, self-sustaining adult? If not,
00:43:58.200
then you're not doing your job. So that means that there's a whole host of virtues and skill sets and
00:44:06.180
capabilities that I need to grow and expand and develop like love and empathy and kindness and
00:44:11.780
compassion and structure and discipline and guidance and patience and perseverance and grit and
00:44:17.660
everything that is taking me to the end of raising self-sufficient adults.
00:44:26.160
That's what it means to be a father. Cool. All right. We good wrap up there. Do you want to try
00:44:32.320
to squeeze in a couple more? Maybe take one, maybe one or two more if we can. All right. Let me jump
00:44:36.720
over to the Facebook. Take one more. Say one more. One more. Jeez. One guy from Facebook gets his
00:44:41.900
question answered. Yeah. Just get, just get the, just look in there real quick and say, boom, that's a good
00:44:46.840
question. Okay. Hold on. Sorry. And then be prepared next week too, if you would.
00:44:56.220
I like the, uh, Goggins video. See how I deflected there. Uh, no, the Goggins video, the snippet from
00:45:03.380
your interview with him that went up on Facebook. That was good. That was good. But what does that
00:45:08.040
have to do with being prepared? I'm just kidding. Um, no, I had already told you I'm deflecting.
00:45:12.340
No, that was a good video. Uh, or it was a good, it was a good moment. It was a great conversation
00:45:17.640
with him. Yeah. He's such a stud, man. Goggins. Oh, come on. It was funny. My wife and I were
00:45:24.700
talking about it. She's like, you know, that interview was, it was like an hour and a half
00:45:28.660
or something. She's like, I think it probably would have been half that if he didn't use the F word,
00:45:33.360
every other word. It would have been like short and 45 minute. It was actually a 45 minute interview.
00:45:40.040
It just took us an hour and a half or filler word. Yes. Word. Oh my gosh. He is funny. Like,
00:45:51.200
I don't know why, but that stuff like just makes me laugh. You know what I mean? Cause it seems so
00:45:55.780
extreme to like drop the F all the time. Uh, maybe it is a military. I think it is a military. It's a
00:46:02.660
military. It's a rough, it's a rough man's language, right? So if you're in the military
00:46:08.600
or blue collar, like contract construction, any of the trades, it seems to me that it's like a rough,
00:46:16.240
a rough man's language. I'm not saying it's bad necessarily. I'm just saying, cause it's funny.
00:46:21.600
Cause I've been around blue collar. I've been in the military. And so I, when they talk, you know,
00:46:26.240
people who aren't exposed to her, like, Oh my gosh, I'm like, wait, what did he swear?
00:46:29.960
Yeah. All right. I think I might find one here. All right. Well now we, now we ran out of time
00:46:38.300
here. Uh, this is a good one. We'll, we'll cover the, um, uh, well, I don't know. All right.
00:46:46.180
Rich Olson, a divorced father who has been very active in my, uh, 17 and 20 year olds daughter's
00:46:52.620
lives. What would you suggest to keep showing them and teaching them as they start their lives?
00:46:58.340
So, I mean, he has a context of divorce, but I don't think that changes, right? Like our kids,
00:47:03.120
whether they were at the house, how do we, yeah. How do we continue this influence?
00:47:09.140
Yeah. I, I don't, I don't know necessarily. I'm not in that situation, but I don't, I don't think
00:47:15.280
it's all that different than what you're potentially doing right now. You know, you just be
00:47:19.240
engaged to the degree that you can, uh, you'd be involved in their life. You ask questions,
00:47:24.820
you call you, if, if you come across something that you think might be valuable or help them,
00:47:29.660
you do, you invite them to be part of your life. I just don't think this is a real complicated
00:47:35.780
situation. And there's, unless there's some extenuating circumstances that maybe is overcoming,
00:47:40.860
I just think you'd be involved. Like that's it. Just, just be involved. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
00:47:46.600
Would you add anything into that? No, I, well, I just, I'm trying to look at my examples,
00:47:50.920
right? My family were, were not a good example of this, but, but my wife's family, they are.
00:47:57.740
And every Sunday, ever since I've, we've been married her grandma and it was her grandma that
00:48:03.380
did it. Her grandma was like, there's family dinner, my house or somewhere every Sunday, period.
00:48:09.920
Right. And, and she is now since past, but that was a priority. It was important to her. Her kids
00:48:16.420
knew that was important and, and it has perpetuated even after her leaving this earth. So, so I just
00:48:23.640
think those things, right, whether it's family traditions around the holidays or whatever, I
00:48:28.260
think that it requires intentionality as a parent, because your kids are going to, they're going to do
00:48:33.120
what we all did. You're going to get to college. You're going to get married. You're going to get busy.
00:48:37.040
It's going, you know, you're going to be juggling things and making that family or the bigger family
00:48:42.620
unit, a priority is going to be naturally kind of tough. And I think you just need to make it a
00:48:47.160
priority and be intentional. And I think that will kind of solidify itself. Like I'm thinking, you know,
00:48:52.080
like some fathers do like a father and son, like all the boys and the dad do like a fish trip to Alaska.
00:48:58.120
I've, I've heard of fathers doing that with their sons, you know, post, you know, living at home.
00:49:03.340
And I'm like, I love that idea. It's awesome. Like a guy's trip every year or whatever.
00:49:07.280
So, right. There you go. All right. Let's wrap it up for that question. All right.
00:49:12.980
No, it's a good, I mean, it's valuable. You still want to be involved as, as a father. And so I think
00:49:17.220
it's valuable. I just, I'm not there. I just think you'd be involved to the degree that you can,
00:49:22.020
but I do like your idea of like, take some initiative, you know, put something together
00:49:25.880
and invite your daughters. I think it was daughters, 17 and 20 or something. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:30.200
All right. So join us on future AMAs by submitting your questions to Facebook. You can join us and
00:49:36.780
the 70,000 other men at facebook.com slash group slash order of man. And of course you can learn
00:49:42.980
more about the exclusive brotherhood, the iron council at order of man.com slash iron council
00:49:48.080
two quick events, September 3rd through the six is legacy. Uh, this is a father and son ages eight
00:49:55.060
to 15 years old. Learn more about legacy. That is order of man.com slash legacy. And then the order
00:50:01.200
of man main event, October 9th through the 11th. Um, and for iron council members, there's a get
00:50:08.900
together the night before on the eighth to learn more about that event. Go to order of man.com
00:50:14.320
slash main event main as the state. Um, subscribe podcast, check us out on YouTube, get your planners.
00:50:23.740
They're reading stocked, uh, inside the store. By the way, on the planners note, uh, I just finished
00:50:31.040
the battle planner for kids. Nice. Which is awesome. I've got my son. My oldest son is doing it right
00:50:39.080
now and he's got a friend who's doing it as well. So they're kind of beta testing it for us.
00:50:43.360
Copy. Uh, but that should be available here in the coming, I would say month ish or so.
00:50:49.380
I love it. I love it. That's great. It's going to be sweet. Yeah. And then, uh, follow Mr.
00:50:53.060
Mickler on Twitter or Instagram at Ryan Mickler. Um, should we, we, should we pull out just origin
00:50:59.000
immersion jujitsu camp? Um, I don't have the dates handy, but that's coming in. I think August,
00:51:05.040
August, September. Yeah. End of August. I think end of August. Um, if you guys are going,
00:51:10.520
um, register and, uh, let us know. So then that way we can, uh, make sure that we're aware that
00:51:16.860
you're there so we can get some roles in. And Ryan likes to beat up on, on order of man, man.
00:51:26.860
All right, cool. All right, guys, we'll let you get going. Um, I think we've got another
00:51:31.260
interview lined up for Thursday. We've been doing two over the past several weeks. So we'll,
00:51:34.920
we'll keep that up for the next little while at least. Uh, and then we'll be back on Friday,
00:51:38.860
but, uh, yeah, that's it until then go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.
00:51:44.100
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
00:51:48.680
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