Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.920 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:16.940 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.460 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, brother? So great to see you. As always,

00:00:26.660 love our Monday conversations. The guys don't get the benefit of our conversations until Wednesday,

00:00:32.240 but so be it. Here we are. Actually, that's not entirely true because we're starting to make

00:00:39.120 all of our podcasts available early in the Iron Council. So if you're a member of the Iron Council,

00:00:44.900 you're going to get it early. Just throw that little carrot out there for the guys.

00:00:49.740 It's a perfect way to start off the week. Icy would probably be what, Tuesday though, right?

00:00:53.880 That they would receive it. Yeah. Tuesday. I might. I mean, it's done. And as soon as we're done,

00:01:01.060 I can just post a link. So the hard part is... Yo, we're joking.

00:01:06.120 And the guys that are business owners know this, but the hard part is delegating all of that stuff.

00:01:12.160 I hear from so many men who... It's funny. They think I just mess around on social media or I just...

00:01:18.320 I don't know, like dink around all day and send a few posts and make a few comments. And that's my job.

00:01:23.460 But they don't... Whenever anybody says, I'm like, yeah, you should do that. You should definitely

00:01:29.020 do that. Just dink around on Facebook all day and see how that works out for you. But they don't

00:01:33.700 realize this is actual business. Meaning I have emails to send. I need to reach out to podcast

00:01:39.280 guests. I do podcasting. There's posting this in the Iron Council. And I'm trying to delegate all

00:01:44.680 of these things and make it work harmoniously and seamlessly. And that's a real challenge at times.

00:01:50.280 If you're a business owner, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

00:01:53.700 Totally. Because no one will do it as good as you, Ryan.

00:01:58.160 That's not true. That's what we tell ourselves.

00:02:00.520 I know, but that is not true.

00:02:01.800 But in the areas where you struggle delegating, it's probably rooted in that.

00:02:07.560 It's rooted in my belief in that.

00:02:10.220 Yeah. Okay. Fair enough.

00:02:11.760 Fair enough.

00:02:11.860 Right? I mean, isn't that the truth?

00:02:14.140 Yeah. Because the reality is, is like, we're developing a leadership development course

00:02:19.380 right now. You do that better than I do. Drew Kuchurik.

00:02:24.460 You don't want to admit it.

00:02:26.160 That you do it better? No, I don't. I don't want to admit it. But I'm willing to say it

00:02:30.300 today.

00:02:30.720 I'm just joking. I'm joking.

00:02:33.140 Drew Kuchurik, who does our network stuff and our membership stuff and make sure the back end

00:02:40.760 stuff with the Iron Council's all working. I don't even know what he's talking about half the time.

00:02:45.160 Like an even better case is Reese, you know, where he's like pouring over the analytics and

00:02:50.620 the data. And he's like, Ryan, you got to tweak this, adjust this, move this. I'm like, why again?

00:02:54.480 He's like, because the numbers support it. I'm like, okay, I don't understand that, but sounds

00:02:59.120 good. And then you have Chris Gatchko who runs events and you have Alan and Jay who onboard new

00:03:05.480 members. Like we tell ourselves that nobody could do it as good as us, but that's just

00:03:11.660 ego talking. There's actually people who can do it significantly better than you. If you get the

00:03:16.820 hell out of the way and let them shine and thrive in their zone of genius is what I've heard it referred

00:03:23.800 to as.

00:03:25.080 Yeah, that's spot on. Well, and, and what a great opportunity that you have, or, or a lot of us

00:03:31.360 have to delegate that authority and create opportunities for people. You know, if, if we're

00:03:38.600 also willing to get out of the way and give them a chance, you know what I mean? To, um, to take

00:03:42.800 that on, you know, of course with, with, you know, within boundaries, so they're not, uh, destroying

00:03:48.700 anything. Right. And that they can fail quickly and learn quickly. But, um, but that's, uh, that's

00:03:54.180 what leaders do, right. Is, is I think create opportunities for others, you know, and that's found

00:03:58.980 in delegation, right. And that transfer of authority. So, well, there has to be, there

00:04:03.500 has to be rules and parameters that your people operate under. Like, here's what I'm looking

00:04:07.920 for. Here's the parameters. Here's kind of the goal and the accomplishment, what we want

00:04:11.500 to achieve by doing this go. And I've, I've had guys who need all the instruction in the

00:04:18.200 world. I actually don't like working with guys like that. Like I really don't like, I don't

00:04:22.920 need to babysit you. I don't need to tell you if I need to tell you every step of the

00:04:27.220 process. I will just do it myself. Yeah. Cause then at that point I might as well, but if I can

00:04:33.500 tell you what we've heard as the commander's intent, if you know, my intent, you know what

00:04:38.540 I'm after. A great example of that is we're rebuilding some sales funnels with, with our

00:04:42.400 organization specifically for the iron council. And I told Drew, Hey, you know, here's what I'm

00:04:46.860 looking for. Here's a couple of examples of other funnels out there here. Here's kind of what

00:04:51.260 I'm hoping to achieve. And he's like, got it. 24 hours later, he puts together this beautiful

00:04:56.640 funnel. He's like, Hey, here's what you're looking for. Let's be a little tweaks and

00:04:59.760 adjustments. I think I might make, but outside of that, man, that freed me up to do something

00:05:05.140 else. It looks beautiful. It's something I never could have done myself. It also, here's one that's

00:05:10.160 often overlooked is it gives people an opportunity to serve. What I noticed a lot of men do

00:05:16.620 is they won't ask for help because they don't want to burden anybody else. I don't want to burden

00:05:22.660 him. I don't like, I can do it. No, I'll take care. I don't want to burden somebody else

00:05:26.040 because we want to be an asset, not a liability. But the opposite is, is, is actually true. When

00:05:32.820 we, if I turned to you, Kip, and I say, Hey, look, I know you're busy. Uh, you've got a lot

00:05:38.520 going on. I'm looking for this thing. And I think you'd be great in this. Would you feel

00:05:42.980 burdened or would you feel complimented at, at, at least a compliment?

00:05:46.980 Yeah. Without a doubt, you might not be able to do it because your schedule or whatever

00:05:52.340 else, but at a minimum you'd feel complimented. And if you actually did it and achieved it

00:05:57.340 and I came back and I'm like, Hey, great job. I love how this looks. I love how this came

00:06:01.280 together. I appreciate this. I mean, we talked about it, uh, what two weeks ago with a leadership

00:06:06.040 development course that we're putting together right now. And you came to me and you're like,

00:06:09.720 Hey man, like, I really want to head this up. And I really want to make sure that it has

00:06:12.960 these factors. I'm like, great, do it, run with it. And you should feel proud about it. And

00:06:18.720 at the risk of sounding a little arrogant or weird here, because of the context of talking

00:06:24.340 with you about this, it's like, okay, well, I was the one who provided that opportunity for you to

00:06:29.980 do that. Yeah. And isn't that what we should be doing as leaders is providing people opportunity

00:06:35.760 to go out, to serve, to feel valuable, to have purpose and meaning and responsibility in their lives.

00:06:41.380 Totally. Well, and, and if you don't want me adding, this is a fun conversation because I've

00:06:47.240 seen the, the pendulum swing in this regard where those in a leadership position say, Hey,

00:06:55.880 I need some help. Someone volunteers, but they're not capable of doing it well. And they go, Oh yeah,

00:07:05.440 run with it. Then they run with it. They fell, falls on their face and then erodes. It's like quite

00:07:14.900 ironic, erodes trust and capability, right? In that individual because they didn't deliver. So we got to

00:07:22.000 be careful, right? Commander's 10 is great. All that's great. But Drew's got to be able to deliver.

00:07:27.680 He's got to be the guy. Otherwise, otherwise you're going to set drew up to fail. And that's on you

00:07:34.220 as well. Right. Because he volunteered because he wanted to help and you gave him something that he

00:07:39.920 was not going to win at. Right. Now this is all an example. Right. And so we got to be really careful

00:07:45.120 that it's not just this volunteer thing. Oh, whoever volunteers, give it to them. No, no, no.

00:07:49.380 They got to be capable of winning at the same time. Otherwise, now it could be some stretching in there.

00:07:55.420 That's okay. But man, if they're not capable of winning at the same time, you're going to set them up

00:07:59.940 for failure. And what sucks about that is in some organizations, you do that. And then everyone's

00:08:04.200 like, oh man, that guy didn't deliver. And there's this negative when all they did is do what their

00:08:09.340 willingness to raise their hand and volunteer and probably do something that they didn't

00:08:13.260 yet weren't capable of winning. And you set them up to lose as a leader. Right. So we got to be

00:08:18.880 careful of that. Right. So it's a good point. I, a real world example of that within the iron council,

00:08:24.060 since we're on that, the conversation here is in the past, if I'm, if I'm gone on a Friday,

00:08:30.140 we do our calls on Friday, Friday morning. If I'm gone on a Friday, I need to have somebody like

00:08:34.700 yourself come in and step in and lead that call. In the past, I've done exactly what you said. Hey,

00:08:40.420 who would like to run the call? And so-and-so will raise their hand. And I'm like, great, good. You got it.

00:08:45.080 And then I'll go and I'll come back and I'm like, Ooh, I watched the replay. I'm like,

00:08:48.520 that did not go well. So I've changed from saying, Hey, who would like to do that? To

00:08:56.280 identifying five to six people that I know at any time I could trust to be able to run it.

00:09:01.680 And what I do when I'm gone is I go through that list. Kip, you, you get messages from me.

00:09:06.840 You decline 99% of the time, but you do get messages from me. Hey, Kip, can you run the call?

00:09:11.800 You're like, no, I'm building a home. Hey Kip, can you run the call? No, I'm in France. Hey Kip,

00:09:17.260 can you run the call? Are you keeping track of my, my responses?

00:09:22.020 He's like, well shit, Kip's out. So yeah, I keep score. So Kip's out. So then I moved to so-and-so

00:09:28.900 and so-and-so and so-and-so. So that's, that's actually going to make some of the guys feel bad.

00:09:32.780 They're like, Oh man, I was second. I thought I was number one on the list. I thought I was last

00:09:36.500 time I talked to Ryan, he said he called me first before Kip. Yeah. Anyways. All right. Well,

00:09:42.860 let's get to some questions today. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to field questions from

00:09:47.200 the iron councils. Well, as well as Facebook, um, our first question in the IC Spencer Hancock,

00:09:53.440 my birthday was earlier this month. And for the second time in three years, my wife allowed her

00:09:59.220 family allowed her family to book their family reunion on my birthday. I get that the timing of

00:10:05.320 all five families can be tough, but then my birthday gets forgotten. I grew up in a family where your

00:10:10.140 birthday is a big deal. How would you guys advise me telling my wife that I feel pretty forgotten?

00:10:15.980 Let me add that direct conversation is a strong, is not a strong suit of mine. And one of the reasons

00:10:22.160 why I joined the iron council. I really liked this. I saw some of these questions. I didn't see all of

00:10:27.780 these. I like this. Uh, my knee jerk reaction is bro. It's your birthday. Get over it. Okay. That's my

00:10:35.360 knee jerk reaction. But then if I think about it for just 10 seconds, it doesn't matter if it's important

00:10:41.100 to me. It doesn't matter if it's not the same priority to her or her family or anybody else

00:10:47.180 that it is to you. If you have something that's important to you, do you need no validation,

00:10:52.880 no approval, no, Hey, I hope everybody else feels the same way. It's important to you. And you know

00:10:58.380 what? I actually bet it would be important to her if she knew how important it was to you.

00:11:03.260 And you're talking about your weakness as being direct communication. That's why she might not

00:11:09.400 even know you might be wallowing and feeling sorry for yourself and feeling like nobody loves you.

00:11:15.180 And yet you failed to communicate what was important to you. Now I started thinking about

00:11:22.220 this question because I really liked this question. What if instead of looking at it as a negative,

00:11:27.780 what if you could celebrate your birthday with her family and five families? Now all of a sudden it

00:11:35.540 becomes a celebration. It's a party. It's not like me and the kids and the wife get together. Now it's

00:11:41.460 everybody's here and we're celebrating my birthday. And I'd be willing to bet if you said,

00:11:45.900 Hey hon, can I just talk with you about something? And it's as hard because we, as men often will

00:11:50.580 slough this off. Like, ah, it's not a big deal. I don't want to burden anybody. Like we talked about

00:11:54.140 earlier. I'll just, to your point, it's just my birthday, but you say that, but it doesn't feel that

00:12:00.400 way. So it doesn't matter what you say. Right. So, you know, you don't need to make demands

00:12:06.780 necessarily, but you might go to her and say, Hey hon, like I got to share something with you that I

00:12:10.740 don't think I've ever really expressed. I grew up where birthdays were a big deal and I really like

00:12:17.720 having a birthday. I really like people coming together that I love and I like receiving gifts

00:12:23.420 or, you know, whatever it is. Like I really liked that. It feels good. But one thing I've noticed

00:12:28.000 is the last two years you've booked family, a family holiday and that's okay. Like I actually love

00:12:34.480 your family. I want to be there and we have a good time, but like, I kind of feel a little bit left

00:12:39.340 out or forgotten when my birthday doesn't get celebrated. Maybe next year, if it's okay with

00:12:45.560 you, if you're comfortable with this, we could still do the family thing, but can we have a

00:12:50.580 birthday party? I would love to do that. And that would be meaningful and significant to me, man.

00:12:56.660 She would do that. Of course she would do that. She wants to do that. She wants to serve you.

00:13:02.260 She just doesn't know. That's it. She does not know. She doesn't think less of you. She's not

00:13:07.520 trying to ignore you. She's not trying to make you feel bad. She just doesn't know. But if she knew

00:13:12.840 that she's a good spouse, just like you and us as men should strive to be better spouses,

00:13:18.340 she would love to do that for you. But she's just got to know. You're actually setting her up for

00:13:23.340 failure by not telling her. Because what's happening is you're not telling her. This is what we call a

00:13:28.060 covert contract. You're not telling her. And then you're having attitudes and beliefs and feelings,

00:13:34.120 not positive ones, by the way, towards her for something you didn't communicate.

00:13:38.560 So is that her fault or is that your fault? Communicate it with her gently. Let her know what

00:13:45.640 you'd like and see what she does. I bet she steps up. So I want to see if you'd answer or you'd add

00:13:54.020 anything to your answer with this context. At one point in Spencer's question, he really comes down

00:14:02.060 to this one sentence. And I think this is the real question. And I think this is a question that all

00:14:09.180 men, not all men, a lot of men can relate to. How would you guys advise telling my wife

00:14:16.160 that I feel pretty forgotten? Just those words. Period. That's it. I just feel forgotten.

00:14:24.200 That's it. But that makes us appear weak. That's why you're not doing it. I assume. That's why I

00:14:30.960 wouldn't do it. It's not weak to have a feeling about something. It's not weak to have a desire.

00:14:36.460 It's not weak to want to be acknowledged and recognized. Here's another thing that you can do.

00:14:40.380 When she actually acknowledges you, let's say you do a project around the house or

00:14:45.660 you put together a party for one of your children or something. You do something and she acknowledges

00:14:52.420 you for it. Reward her for it by letting her know how you feel about it.

00:14:58.420 I really appreciated you.

00:15:00.160 Yeah. Or even better than that. Even better than I appreciate you. Here's what I would say.

00:15:04.480 Hey, hon, I did that project for you. And I just got to tell you, I don't need it.

00:15:10.380 But when I do a project around the house and it's something that you want done, something

00:15:15.740 that will beautify the home or make it more effective, and you tell me how you feel about

00:15:21.080 it, man, it makes me feel acknowledged. It makes me feel recognized. It makes me feel

00:15:26.940 important. And that might seem silly, but I really like to feel valuable in the home. And

00:15:32.480 so when you acknowledge me that way, I like that. I got to tell you, I like that. So you're

00:15:37.560 reinforcing the behavior that you want her to engage in. And if you do that, she's going

00:15:43.920 to feel good. She's like, Oh, I served my husband. Oh, he likes what I did. Like she

00:15:47.800 wants that. And then she's going to do more of it because she wants, she wants that just

00:15:53.360 like you do. She wants acknowledgement just like you do.

00:15:56.060 I like that. I like it. I think one thing that I would bring up that I think some of us,

00:16:00.880 or at least I have in the past where I might want to communicate an upset like this will

00:16:07.800 have a tendency to latch on and go, you made me mad when, or I feel forgotten when you put

00:16:14.540 your family before me. So get really present to what you're owning. And I like to say it

00:16:20.220 this way, separate reality from your story, right? And so in Spencer's case, his story is

00:16:26.500 what? That he's forgotten. You hear it. Oh, my wife forgets me. I'm not special. She chooses

00:16:32.460 the family reunion over my birthday, blah, blah, blah. No, the reality is what? That is your family

00:16:37.760 reunion on his birthday. That's it. That's nothing else doing, right? That's it. So, so own your

00:16:44.460 interpretation. Hey money. Hey honey, when we do the family reunion on birthday, I know this is

00:16:50.220 probably not your intention, but I interpret it as where it feels like that I'm, you know, less

00:16:58.080 valued or whatever. And I know that's my interpretation, but you know what I mean? Can we

00:17:03.640 now, can I, then you put your request in, right? Can we celebrate my birthday? Can we do something?

00:17:08.460 So own how you're feeling and communicate how you feel. Don't jump to the conclusion. You know what I

00:17:14.280 mean? Around the story. I like, you said something there. I really like the whole thing I liked,

00:17:19.060 but there was one moment you said, and then you put your request in. Cause what a lot of guys will

00:17:22.940 do is they're like, Hey, when this happens, I feel forgotten. No, not even that. They won't even say

00:17:27.340 it. They won't make any requests. Oh, they'll just like no request. Oh, got it. They'll just say,

00:17:31.260 they'll say, Hey hon, you know, it feels like I'm forgotten. Um, you know, I know this is happening

00:17:36.100 and I just, I feel upset. And then what does she say? She says, okay, sorry about that, honey.

00:17:41.200 Right. I'm sorry. I didn't mean no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't forgetting about you. I didn't. Oh,

00:17:46.660 I'm sorry. And you're like, it's okay. I just wanted to let you know.

00:17:49.300 No, like tell her be assertive. It's in sales. You just know, the number one reason you don't

00:17:55.520 make a sale in sales. Why Kip? Cause you don't ask, you don't ask for it.

00:18:01.060 That's it. You'd put together this beautiful sales presentation and then the client's like,

00:18:05.520 yeah, yeah, yeah. This is cool. And you're like, all right, well, see you later. Like,

00:18:10.420 like on dumb and dumber pickups, huh? Well, see you later. What are you doing?

00:18:15.620 Totally. Okay. Hey, you like the presentation? Good. Here's what I propose. Would you like to

00:18:20.560 move forward with this proposal? It's the same thing in a marriage. Hey hon, I feel forgotten.

00:18:25.300 I know that's not your intent, but this is how it makes me feel. And she's like, I didn't mean it

00:18:28.720 like that at all. Say that's okay. I'm hoping maybe next year we can do dot, dot, dot propose a solution.

00:18:35.300 Yeah. And you have a solution by the way, like some guys might like, oh, I just wanted to let

00:18:40.480 her know. No, you have an expectation of communicating that and that something's going

00:18:45.040 to change. So you better communicate whatever that expectation is and put it into a form of

00:18:49.160 an ask. So then that way you don't have back to what you said earlier, a covert contract.

00:18:53.800 I think the most important thing that we need to recognize here in assertive communication is

00:18:58.200 people want to serve you. People want to be valuable. They want to please you. Um, they want to feel

00:19:04.440 important. They want to have responsibility. So give it to them by telling them and it makes it

00:19:10.140 less scary. All right. Next question. Hey, Bobby, Katie, life throws a lot at you at different times

00:19:16.740 in your life. What's one thing you do now to keep you grounded and focused on the mission at hand

00:19:23.280 mine. When my wife was battling cancer, I stayed focused on being the, being that for her, obviously,

00:19:29.280 but I also being that positive reinforcement that everything goes, that everything's going to be

00:19:34.420 okay. I really think that the time in the IC in 75 hard gave me the groundworks to help her and

00:19:40.740 myself get through that hard time. So I had a really difficult things. Yeah. Yeah. I had a good

00:19:47.700 podcast over the weekend with his name is Greg Harden. He's a mindset coach to some of the greatest

00:19:52.320 athletes ever. Tom Brady, Desmond Howard, Michael Phelps. He's a mindset coach to these guys. It's coming

00:19:58.480 out. Yeah. Tuesday. So if you're listening to this, it came out yesterday, go back and listen to it.

00:20:03.140 And he talks about the four A's that all humans desire. And that is attention. I'm pulling up my

00:20:09.740 notes from the interview because I saved my notes, attention, affection, approval, and acceptance.

00:20:15.840 And the way that he frames it early in the book is that's what we're seeking from others. And the way

00:20:19.640 that he frames it later in the book is he says, put a self in front of that self-attention,

00:20:23.620 self-affection, self-approval, self-acceptance. We need to spend more time in those arenas taking

00:20:34.520 care of ourselves. And I asked him, I said, is this selfish? And he says, yeah, but why is that

00:20:38.820 bad? And he said something to the effect, and I'm looking through my notes here. He said something to

00:20:43.720 the effect of, oh, here it is. We need to eliminate the dramatics of selfishness. He says,

00:20:52.540 everybody dramatizes it. We make it out to be this big, negative, big, bad wolf. It's not. It's

00:20:57.660 drama. It's not bad to be selfish. In fact, if you're selfish, then you're more capable of serving

00:21:02.760 others. So if you can find a way, and this is 30,000 foot views type stuff, but if you can find a

00:21:08.760 way to give yourself some self-attention in a way that's meaningful to you, then that's what you need

00:21:12.240 to do when things are hard. Self-attention might be training, might be working out, might be picking

00:21:18.320 up a new hobby, might be working on a project, might be working on a speech, might be reading

00:21:22.240 some books, might be binge watching suits on Netflix. I don't know what it is, but it's self-attention.

00:21:28.280 It's something for you. Self-affection, for me, it's we always focus on the negative. I'm not good at

00:21:35.380 this. I failed here. I did this bad. I did this poorly. Instead, it's like, okay, well, what have

00:21:39.760 I done well? Well, Ryan, you're a pretty decent father most of the time. Look at this home that

00:21:47.060 you're trying to create for your kids. Look at this movement that you've created. You're worthy

00:21:51.480 of affection. That's valuable stuff. And so you go through this whole list of things, and then you

00:21:57.080 figure out ways to give yourself more self-attention, more self-affection, more self-approval,

00:22:01.220 and more self-acceptance. The beauty of this is now we're no longer reliant on external factors.

00:22:06.960 For example, your wife battling cancer. Not to diminish the struggle of that, but it's an

00:22:14.260 external factor that you don't have any control over. You have control over your response to it,

00:22:19.340 medically and emotionally and mentally. But if you build this within yourself, these four A's within

00:22:25.240 yourself, you're going to be more capable of managing those external factors that are beyond

00:22:29.980 your control. Mine's a divorce in the past eight months now. Yeah. Like I don't have any control

00:22:37.440 over that. So I've got to figure out ways to give myself self-attention. And the hard one for me

00:22:41.920 is self-affection. Like I can give that to other people. Kip, I really care about you. I love you

00:22:49.340 like a brother. I care about you. I want you to succeed. I see so much good in you when things maybe

00:22:55.120 aren't going as well. I want to support you. I don't do that for myself though. Yeah. I do it for

00:23:01.280 other people. So these four A's people seek after just by human nature. And the premise of his book

00:23:12.000 is don't go externally for those. You need to address those with yourself. Like have that address

00:23:19.460 attention and affection and those. And, and that's, that's really awesome. I like, I'm excited about

00:23:25.060 this podcast that comes out tomorrow or yesterday. Yesterday. Yeah. Because I, it's unfair too,

00:23:34.220 right? Like that, that's the main thing I think about a little bit is when I'm so externally,

00:23:39.240 I need the attention and validation, let's say from my wife, it that's exhausting to think about.

00:23:45.580 It's like, it's so unfair, right? Like what, let's say I put that on you, Ryan. It's like,

00:23:50.020 Hey, you know what? My day will go fine, Ryan, but man, dude, you got to show up really powerfully

00:23:54.880 today. And, and you got to feed my ego and you got to make sure I feel affectionate and blah, blah,

00:23:59.620 blah. Otherwise, you know what? I'm going to have a bad day. I'm going to put that all on you instead.

00:24:04.460 Let's be clear though, Kip. I am not your wife. Like, I just want to be very clear on that. So

00:24:09.400 cause you said wife with you, Ryan, for example, hold on a second here,

00:24:13.960 but you know what I mean? Like that'd be so unfair, that's unfair to her. That's unfair

00:24:17.960 to relationships. I mean, I, I dated girls before, before Asia and I got married and one girl, I,

00:24:25.100 I thought she was amazing, but it was exhausting. I had to show up perfectly every day. If I had a bad

00:24:32.800 day, it was, everything was going to go South because she was so dependent on how I showed up

00:24:40.160 for how she would feel today. And it it's unfair to put that on people too.

00:24:47.040 I agree. I agree. I guess the question I would ask, and I'm not going to really give any answers

00:24:51.380 here, but we probably will throughout the rest of the podcast. But the question I would ask is

00:24:54.480 how Bobby and other people that are listening, how do you give attention to yourself and how would you

00:25:00.780 like to, how do you, what, what practices do you have in place that will help you have some

00:25:05.140 self-affection? How do you approve of yourself when it comes to approving of yourself? I think

00:25:09.580 we've talked about this a lot. I think it's being a man of your word and integrity, because if you

00:25:13.760 wake up this morning and you were, and you set your alarm for six o'clock and you woke up at six,

00:25:18.040 then that's an approval. That's a little, little tick mark in the, in the, Hey, I did good today.

00:25:23.000 And then self-acceptance, which is realizing that you have faults and demons and negativity and

00:25:31.880 past mistakes. Do you know what, without those, you wouldn't be who you are. Um, I tend to personally

00:25:40.240 because I do, I am driven and I am motivated and I can maintain focus pretty well is I end up leaving

00:25:49.060 a wake of collateral damage in my path with things that detract me from what my singular pursuit is in

00:25:55.340 the moment. And I'm not saying they're always the right things, but that's what happens. That's a

00:26:00.140 double-edged sword or maybe a catch 22, meaning I'm hyper-focused. I can achieve what I want,

00:26:05.780 but damn, if I didn't ruin my family in the process. Yeah. So do I, what do I get rid of?

00:26:11.720 Do I get rid of the, the, the ability that I have to leave a wake of collateral damage in my path?

00:26:18.840 Or do I get rid of my drive and my focus? I don't know which one you choose.

00:26:23.180 Or do you learn to switch your drive and focus? So then that way you kill it in all areas. Right.

00:26:30.360 But you got to turn off that focus and redirect it when appropriate. Right. Exactly. Yeah. You know,

00:26:36.460 one thing to answer Bobby's question that has helped me in this past year, and I'm not, uh,

00:26:42.480 I just thought it was insightful. There's a book called the extraordinary leader, uh, Zinger

00:26:46.520 Folkman's one of the authors. And the whole premise of that book is that we all have like super talents,

00:26:52.600 gifts and, and kind of gifts. And, and as from a leadership development perspective,

00:26:57.900 there's value in doubling down on what we're good at and become extraordinary. Almost the opposite of

00:27:04.040 what we'd assume, right? Cause the human nature, and I know this about you, Ryan is if you took a,

00:27:08.680 if you, if you had a bunch of people take an assessment, you would look at, you'd skip all

00:27:13.360 the great things that people said, and you'd jump down to the lowest score and you'd be like,

00:27:17.780 nah, you know what I mean? And, and what I like about that premise of that book is,

00:27:22.600 like, no, move back up to the top, right? Like kind of get connected to where your talents are

00:27:28.880 and, and how do you strengthen them? And, and so that idea really makes me feel better too,

00:27:36.200 right? When I think about it, it's like, Hey, you know what? There are things I'm good at.

00:27:39.720 And when I, when I'm willing to ask and, or through an assessment process or whatever,

00:27:45.060 and I hear these things, I, I go, okay, yeah, I actually have some talents. I, I, I,

00:27:51.680 that I'm bringing to the table and how do I strengthen those? And, and almost kind of like,

00:27:56.040 what is my brand as a man and how do I embrace it and, and use those to serve people more than I

00:28:03.700 have been. And, and that for whatever reason kind of gets me grounded where I'm not just focusing on

00:28:09.360 the negative, but yeah. Yeah. Good question, Bobby. I actually like that. All right. Taylor Kirk.

00:28:15.580 I recently accepted a job with a great company in Dallas. I'm about five weeks in and everything

00:28:20.800 is progressing well with a great team and manager. I recently had an opportunity to test

00:28:25.640 with the FAA for air traffic control school, which is something I've always wanted to do.

00:28:31.720 The question is, what would be your advice in regards to determine if I should take the FFA

00:28:36.720 opportunity, assuming he gets the offer or staying with the current employer since I just started for

00:28:42.640 a context, I had already accepted my current role before receiving the invitation to test for the FAA.

00:28:49.720 Okay. I'm going to reframe. I saw this question. I'm going to reframe this question. I'm going to

00:28:53.120 strip everything else out of it. That's unnecessary. The question is this, should I remain loyal to a

00:29:01.120 company that will not be loyal to me in exchange for pursuing a dream that I have?

00:29:07.480 Well, do we need to say any more to that question? No, no, there's nothing more to it.

00:29:17.660 The only, the, the other thing that triggered like the red flag guy said is, is take this

00:29:21.980 opportunity, assuming I get your, your, you're trying to make a choice when you don't even know

00:29:27.140 yet. So like get to the point of taking the test. So that way you have, like, he's trying to determine

00:29:33.080 if he should stay or go when go is only based upon a test that he hasn't even taken yet. Right. So

00:29:38.500 like, you know, be mindful of that, take the test. So that way we even have options first. Right. But

00:29:45.020 yeah, but I like your point way better. Yeah. The only caveat to that is other responsibilities. I know

00:29:52.540 those, for example, if you're married and you have kids, like there's considerations, right?

00:29:57.540 Even in that situation, I would still tell you, Hey, you and your wife can eat rice and beans for

00:30:04.020 a couple of years. And you know, your kids are going to be okay. And maybe Christmas isn't as

00:30:09.620 lucrative as it once was a year or two ago. And so what you're chasing your dream. You want to get

00:30:14.840 to the end of your life? 65, 70, 75, 80 years old. And you're like, you know, damn, I should have done

00:30:20.200 that thing. And that's exactly what you would be thinking. Yeah. I would have been out a little money.

00:30:25.160 I would have had to travel a little bit and I would have been away from my family, you know,

00:30:28.300 a little bit, a few more days or a few. It's exactly what you'll be thinking. So that's a

00:30:33.380 no brainer to me. Go take your test. Go pursue what you want. If this company is that you're

00:30:39.840 working with, as long as you do a good job and you break it off amicably, there's probably an

00:30:44.540 opportunity to come back at some point. Like any reasonable person is going to say, Hey, you know what?

00:30:49.740 Damn, that sucks. But I understand. I get it. Yeah. I mean, if an employee, an employer,

00:30:54.860 or an employee came to you and said, Oh my gosh, I just started Ryan. I'm loving the job, but

00:30:59.980 my dream opportunity just presented itself. And I, I got to take this. You would totally be like,

00:31:07.660 yeah, like, got it. Makes sense. I mean, I might be upset as an employer. Like I might've invested

00:31:12.860 in you. So what? Just so what? Like live your life. You know, that you have risk going to work

00:31:19.120 with an organization and they have risk and they're willing to assume the risk that you might

00:31:23.880 leave. And you're willing to assume the risk that maybe you won't like it. Like there's risk we take

00:31:28.400 in everything. And in this case, you know, the company that you are working with may have lost

00:31:33.420 out on a great employee. That's all factored into the, that's all baked into the cake as they say.

00:31:38.860 Yeah. Aaron Kanatsar, what are some tactics that you guys have employed to be more introspective

00:31:46.880 in regards to personal battles, areas of needed growth, battling previous trauma and et cetera,

00:31:53.620 when self-reflection is difficult or even painful to do? Thanks for everything that you guys do.

00:32:00.120 I personally like journaling. And what I've, I think one of the reasons I like journaling so much

00:32:05.860 is because when I, you're talking about self-reflection, for me, it gets stuck in my

00:32:12.060 brain and then it just becomes an echo chamber where it's bouncing off and I can never release

00:32:17.380 it. It's like, you're horrible. You're not good at this. You failed. You did this. And so it's like

00:32:20.940 bouncing around in my brain. It's like, you're horrible. You're bad. You're this and that. And

00:32:23.980 it just feeds off and it just spirals into this never ending circle of, of despair. But for me,

00:32:30.740 I think this can happen in one of a couple of ways. I don't think it's enough just to go

00:32:35.740 blow off steam somewhere. Yeah. Like some people say, let's go work out. I mean, yeah,

00:32:41.580 you'll feel better because you're tired. That's why you're just tired. You're exhausted. You focus

00:32:46.900 all your energy on something else and you're tired and it alleviates the pressure for a little while.

00:32:50.860 So, I mean, there's value in that. It's a distraction method, but you're not actually

00:32:54.860 solving the problem unless you use your working out as time to reflect on and you're extracting

00:33:00.540 lessons from those experiences. Jiu-jitsu is a great example of that. If you go to class and you

00:33:04.880 just roll and then you come back and you're like, yeah, it was good, good, good class,

00:33:08.260 but you don't extract any of the lessons. Oh, that guy caught me in an arm bar, but how did he catch

00:33:12.440 me in an arm bar? Oh, you know, I did this and then he did that and I did this and then he responded

00:33:16.280 and that's what happened. Okay. Now you're a better player because you were reflecting on it.

00:33:21.660 So for me, journaling really helps because the minute I put pen to paper and I'm not talking

00:33:26.080 about on a computer, I I've got my journal right here. The minute I put pen to paper,

00:33:31.600 it gets out of here and I can see it a little differently, more objectively, more clearly.

00:33:35.980 So that's good. Um, another way that you can do that is by talking with other men and, and that's

00:33:41.060 hard because you need to go to another man and say, Hey, you know what? I'm struggling with something.

00:33:44.420 Can I talk to you about this? He's going to say yes, by the way, uh, which might be good or bad,

00:33:50.020 depending on if you really wanted to have the conversation or not. And then you need to open up

00:33:54.400 and you need to share what's going on and that, that person will listen potentially, or they'll

00:33:59.780 offer some feedback or they'll give you a different perspective. And that's really, really healthy

00:34:04.120 because now it's getting out of your brain and into the real world. And you can start seeing things

00:34:08.600 from a perspective that you couldn't see before. So, uh, that's what I like those two tactics talking

00:34:13.980 with other men. In fact, I did that this weekend. I called a buddy up. I'm like, Hey, here's what I'm

00:34:16.960 going through. Like you have a minute to talk. And we haven't been able to over the weekend

00:34:19.900 cause he was gone, but we're going to do that this week. And, you know, that just took me making

00:34:24.580 a quick call and a text and saying, Hey, this is what I need. And he's like, cool. What, what are we

00:34:28.180 doing? When can we do it? Um, journaling, you know, buy a journal at Walmart or target or wherever your

00:34:33.460 place is and just start writing about what you're thinking, experiencing, feeling, and just get it all

00:34:38.300 out. I have two writing prompts that I've used in the past. The one is cause he might like, Oh, I'm going to

00:34:49.160 journal tomorrow morning. And then like, nothing comes to mind. I would, if you want to be really

00:34:53.300 intentional here, I'd say in what areas of your life is something incomplete or unresolved. And I

00:35:02.880 would actually journal about it, how you feel about it, situation, which you know what I mean? And try

00:35:09.440 to follow your thought process to a conclusion of some sort. The other thing I've done, and this has

00:35:15.180 been years, but it was actually like a really powerful exercise is I wrote my sob story, my

00:35:23.060 drama, right? Like, Oh, like, and we all have them like literally. And I, and I latch onto it all the

00:35:30.500 time. Like I'll, I'll, I'll throw in how I was raised and, you know, and it's this, this buildup of,

00:35:37.180 you know, Whoa, poor Kip and look what I've achieved. And it has this, it's almost like this

00:35:42.340 dramatic feel to it. And I'll tap into it every so often when, when Asia introduced me to someone

00:35:47.020 new, I'll be like, Oh, I'll pull some of that up from my past and make me look good. And, and,

00:35:52.460 and we have this, we all have it. We have this story around our identity and, and we use it to

00:35:59.300 our benefit. We'll even use these personal battles and trauma to our benefit. So people feel, so we can

00:36:06.100 feel sorry for ourselves. And I went through this exercise once where I wrote it down. It was like

00:36:11.380 two pages long and I'd read it like 20 times. And after like the 20th time, I was like, that is so

00:36:20.380 made up. That is so dramatic. And it's just, it's silly to even hear you read it out loud. You're like,

00:36:29.480 Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is in my head. Right. And this is what I tell myself all the time.

00:36:34.380 So just play with the, the difference between the stories that we create and reality.

00:36:42.900 And, but I, I, I, right now I'm now thinking in my head, it's like, I don't, I want to be careful

00:36:48.600 here. Cause Ryan said something you said earlier that I feel really passionate about is like, Hey,

00:36:53.560 if it's dramatic, it's dramatic. So I don't want to downplay our, our, our troubles and our struggles.

00:37:00.820 That's not what my intent here is, but get present to the story that you, that we're creating versus

00:37:09.060 reality. And one way to do that is through those two, two exercises. Well, one thing you said,

00:37:15.500 if it's dramatic, it's dramatic. That's not true. That's true. That's not true at all. Two plus two

00:37:21.360 equals four is true. Yeah. Yeah. Like H2O water is H2O, which is, you know, two, two parts,

00:37:28.800 hydrogen, one part oxygen. Like that's true. Yeah. But dramatic is not true. It's how you feel about

00:37:37.280 a thing. And I'm not trying to invalidate how somebody feels about a thing. I'm just wondering

00:37:42.300 if we can give ourselves a different perspective by making life more challenging in certain aspects or

00:37:46.980 pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zone. I mean, how many times have you, uh, been now in an

00:37:52.440 altercation specifically on the mats where, you know, eight years ago you would have freaked out

00:37:58.560 and tapped. Yeah. And now you're like, Oh, I mean, that doesn't feel good, but it's like, I'm okay.

00:38:04.720 Yeah. What's the difference? It's all perspective. It's all just time. It's all just like, Hey,

00:38:09.100 I'm, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with this discomfort. That's okay. Um, I, I do like what you're saying

00:38:14.520 about, um, even thinking about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. You're talking about

00:38:20.140 looking at it objectively. I would call that consciousness where you're actually consciously

00:38:24.260 looking at your story, not through your own lens, but the lens of an objective passerby.

00:38:29.760 And you start reading and you're like, no, that's not true. But through your lens, it felt really,

00:38:34.180 really accurate. And, and so one thing I like to do is I like to, in that situation, I might ask

00:38:41.320 if somebody else was telling me this story, how would I feel about it? I would say, Oh my gosh,

00:38:48.300 this guy is dramatic. This guy is like so negative. This guy is like, well, what's with this guy?

00:38:55.220 Like, that's how I would feel. And you're telling that about yourself. Another little exercise is

00:39:00.500 the way that you talk about yourself. Like I'm a horrible human being. I'm no good. Um, I'm a loser.

00:39:06.980 Go tell that to somebody else today. Would you do that to somebody else? Not even that, just see how

00:39:15.100 you feel about doing it. Kip, if I came to you and I said, Kip, you're a fricking loser, man. You're

00:39:20.620 pathetic. You're no good. I don't care about your achievements because all of the negative shit that

00:39:25.400 you've done in your life overshadows any achievements. You're a bum, you're a loser, and you're never going

00:39:31.200 to amount to anything. I would never in a million years say that to you. And yet I'm willing to say it

00:39:36.420 about myself. Yeah. So that's what I'm talking about, putting it in different contexts and

00:39:41.840 consciousness and looking at it more objectively than the subjective lens in which you're viewing

00:39:48.060 it. Yeah. Eric Peterson, how do you recommend men who have made it solid job, good relationships,

00:39:57.180 et cetera, continue to strive and find and create difficulty in their lives so they don't become

00:40:02.200 complacent? I got to get rid of the phrase. I made it. You made what? What did you, what did you

00:40:08.940 make? You made good money relative to what your loser neighbor that, you know, that's like strung out

00:40:15.940 and doesn't have any education or drive. Well, congratulations. You're better than him. Yeah. Cool.

00:40:22.700 What does that mean? And I'm not trying to throw the neighbor under the bus here, but I'm saying like,

00:40:27.080 you're you've made it compared to what? Oh, good. You're, you're in a, you're in a 10 year marriage,

00:40:31.720 but your parents only lasted five years. Well, congratulations. There's people that have done

00:40:35.600 it for 20, 30, 40, 60, 70 years. So you've made it like, who are you comparing yourself to?

00:40:41.840 Or, or even, I think even more, even better is you're going to limit your potential. You say,

00:40:47.880 okay, so you made 200 grand this year. So you're okay with that. You might be, and that's okay.

00:40:53.360 I'm not here to judge and tell you what you should or should make, but if you're not okay with that,

00:40:56.720 then there's guys that are making $200,000 this week. So have you really made it? You might have,

00:41:04.600 and you know, I'm not here to tell you that what you're doing is inadequate. I don't know.

00:41:09.000 I don't know what your priorities are. I don't know what your goals are. I don't know what your

00:41:11.840 dreams are. I don't know what your hopes are. I don't know any of that, but it sounds to me like

00:41:15.440 there's a conflict between, Hey, I'm doing pretty well and I want to do better. Good. Then get rid of the,

00:41:20.220 I'm doing pretty well thing. Like I've made it. I've arrived and start thinking about what's next.

00:41:25.660 What do I want to do next? You know, here's my marriage. Here's my relationship, but here's

00:41:30.100 what I'd like it to look like. Here's how I'm connected to my kids, but here's how I'd like

00:41:33.740 to be connected to my kids. Here's the amount of money that I'm making right now. And I feel

00:41:37.140 pretty good about that. I've done pretty well for myself, but here's what I'd like to be making.

00:41:40.980 And here's how I'm going to do it. You know, my body, I'm pretty lean. I'm strong and fit,

00:41:45.220 but that's not all I have. There's more to it than that. Let me see what else I can do.

00:41:50.220 So let's, I think we need to get rid of the, I've made it mentality and start looking at

00:41:55.420 something else. All right, guys, we were having some technical difficulties. So Kip is unable to

00:42:00.460 make it back on the call before our time wrapped up for today. So, um, with that said, I think we'll

00:42:05.540 just wrap it up today. You guys had some great questions. We appreciate those questions and

00:42:09.180 hopefully we gave you some information and some ideas to consider in your own life. Keep the questions

00:42:13.880 rolling. Uh, also remember that we're going to be opening up the iron council on September 15th,

00:42:19.620 excuse me, September 15th. If you go to order a man.com slash iron council, uh, you'll be able

00:42:24.900 to drop your email in there and be notified when we open back up. Also want to give a shout out to

00:42:31.040 my good friends and show sponsors, Montana knife company. Uh, just started working with these guys

00:42:36.200 in a more formal setting. I've been friends with them for years. Hunts are coming up this year and I

00:42:40.480 would highly, highly encourage you to go check out Montana knife company, uh, to see what knives they

00:42:45.480 have. I've been using their knives or breaking down animals and butchering animals and even their

00:42:51.020 culinary set in the kitchen for years now. And I can't speak highly enough about this American made

00:42:56.120 knife company. Go check it out. Montana knife company.com. All right, guys, I appreciate you.

00:43:01.700 Go check out the iron council. Stay tuned, stay connected with us. Let's all go out there,

00:43:06.340 take action and become the man we are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:43:11.620 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:43:15.840 We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.

The Art of Delegation, Direct Conversation, and Deleting the "I've Made it Mentality" ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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