Order of Man


The Art of Delegation, Direct Conversation, and Deleting the "I've Made it Mentality" ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING


Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

8

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Hate speech

2

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Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Ryan and Kip talk about the importance of being a man of action and how to deal with the challenges that come with being a leader. They also discuss how to delegitimize the ego of others in order to allow yourself to be the best version of yourself.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart
00:00:04.920 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
00:00:10.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who
00:00:16.940 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
00:00:22.460 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, brother? So great to see you. As always,
00:00:26.660 love our Monday conversations. The guys don't get the benefit of our conversations until Wednesday,
00:00:32.240 but so be it. Here we are. Actually, that's not entirely true because we're starting to make
00:00:39.120 all of our podcasts available early in the Iron Council. So if you're a member of the Iron Council,
00:00:44.900 you're going to get it early. Just throw that little carrot out there for the guys. 0.99
00:00:49.740 It's a perfect way to start off the week. Icy would probably be what, Tuesday though, right?
00:00:53.880 That they would receive it. Yeah. Tuesday. I might. I mean, it's done. And as soon as we're done,
00:01:01.060 I can just post a link. So the hard part is... Yo, we're joking.
00:01:06.120 And the guys that are business owners know this, but the hard part is delegating all of that stuff.
00:01:12.160 I hear from so many men who... It's funny. They think I just mess around on social media or I just...
00:01:18.320 I don't know, like dink around all day and send a few posts and make a few comments. And that's my job.
00:01:23.460 But they don't... Whenever anybody says, I'm like, yeah, you should do that. You should definitely
00:01:29.020 do that. Just dink around on Facebook all day and see how that works out for you. But they don't
00:01:33.700 realize this is actual business. Meaning I have emails to send. I need to reach out to podcast
00:01:39.280 guests. I do podcasting. There's posting this in the Iron Council. And I'm trying to delegate all
00:01:44.680 of these things and make it work harmoniously and seamlessly. And that's a real challenge at times.
00:01:50.280 If you're a business owner, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
00:01:53.700 Totally. Because no one will do it as good as you, Ryan.
00:01:58.160 That's not true. That's what we tell ourselves.
00:02:00.520 I know, but that is not true.
00:02:01.800 But in the areas where you struggle delegating, it's probably rooted in that.
00:02:07.560 It's rooted in my belief in that.
00:02:10.220 Yeah. Okay. Fair enough.
00:02:11.760 Fair enough.
00:02:11.860 Right? I mean, isn't that the truth?
00:02:14.140 Yeah. Because the reality is, is like, we're developing a leadership development course
00:02:19.380 right now. You do that better than I do. Drew Kuchurik.
00:02:24.460 You don't want to admit it.
00:02:26.160 That you do it better? No, I don't. I don't want to admit it. But I'm willing to say it
00:02:30.300 today.
00:02:30.720 I'm just joking. I'm joking.
00:02:33.140 Drew Kuchurik, who does our network stuff and our membership stuff and make sure the back end
00:02:40.760 stuff with the Iron Council's all working. I don't even know what he's talking about half the time.
00:02:45.160 Like an even better case is Reese, you know, where he's like pouring over the analytics and
00:02:50.620 the data. And he's like, Ryan, you got to tweak this, adjust this, move this. I'm like, why again?
00:02:54.480 He's like, because the numbers support it. I'm like, okay, I don't understand that, but sounds
00:02:59.120 good. And then you have Chris Gatchko who runs events and you have Alan and Jay who onboard new
00:03:05.480 members. Like we tell ourselves that nobody could do it as good as us, but that's just
00:03:11.660 ego talking. There's actually people who can do it significantly better than you. If you get the
00:03:16.820 hell out of the way and let them shine and thrive in their zone of genius is what I've heard it referred
00:03:23.800 to as.
00:03:25.080 Yeah, that's spot on. Well, and, and what a great opportunity that you have, or, or a lot of us
00:03:31.360 have to delegate that authority and create opportunities for people. You know, if, if we're
00:03:38.600 also willing to get out of the way and give them a chance, you know what I mean? To, um, to take
00:03:42.800 that on, you know, of course with, with, you know, within boundaries, so they're not, uh, destroying
00:03:48.700 anything. Right. And that they can fail quickly and learn quickly. But, um, but that's, uh, that's
00:03:54.180 what leaders do, right. Is, is I think create opportunities for others, you know, and that's found
00:03:58.980 in delegation, right. And that transfer of authority. So, well, there has to be, there
00:04:03.500 has to be rules and parameters that your people operate under. Like, here's what I'm looking
00:04:07.920 for. Here's the parameters. Here's kind of the goal and the accomplishment, what we want
00:04:11.500 to achieve by doing this go. And I've, I've had guys who need all the instruction in the
00:04:18.200 world. I actually don't like working with guys like that. Like I really don't like, I don't
00:04:22.920 need to babysit you. I don't need to tell you if I need to tell you every step of the
00:04:27.220 process. I will just do it myself. Yeah. Cause then at that point I might as well, but if I can
00:04:33.500 tell you what we've heard as the commander's intent, if you know, my intent, you know what
00:04:38.540 I'm after. A great example of that is we're rebuilding some sales funnels with, with our
00:04:42.400 organization specifically for the iron council. And I told Drew, Hey, you know, here's what I'm
00:04:46.860 looking for. Here's a couple of examples of other funnels out there here. Here's kind of what 0.82
00:04:51.260 I'm hoping to achieve. And he's like, got it. 24 hours later, he puts together this beautiful
00:04:56.640 funnel. He's like, Hey, here's what you're looking for. Let's be a little tweaks and
00:04:59.760 adjustments. I think I might make, but outside of that, man, that freed me up to do something
00:05:05.140 else. It looks beautiful. It's something I never could have done myself. It also, here's one that's
00:05:10.160 often overlooked is it gives people an opportunity to serve. What I noticed a lot of men do
00:05:16.620 is they won't ask for help because they don't want to burden anybody else. I don't want to burden
00:05:22.660 him. I don't like, I can do it. No, I'll take care. I don't want to burden somebody else
00:05:26.040 because we want to be an asset, not a liability. But the opposite is, is, is actually true. When
00:05:32.820 we, if I turned to you, Kip, and I say, Hey, look, I know you're busy. Uh, you've got a lot
00:05:38.520 going on. I'm looking for this thing. And I think you'd be great in this. Would you feel
00:05:42.980 burdened or would you feel complimented at, at, at least a compliment?
00:05:46.980 Yeah. Without a doubt, you might not be able to do it because your schedule or whatever
00:05:52.340 else, but at a minimum you'd feel complimented. And if you actually did it and achieved it
00:05:57.340 and I came back and I'm like, Hey, great job. I love how this looks. I love how this came
00:06:01.280 together. I appreciate this. I mean, we talked about it, uh, what two weeks ago with a leadership
00:06:06.040 development course that we're putting together right now. And you came to me and you're like,
00:06:09.720 Hey man, like, I really want to head this up. And I really want to make sure that it has
00:06:12.960 these factors. I'm like, great, do it, run with it. And you should feel proud about it. And
00:06:18.720 at the risk of sounding a little arrogant or weird here, because of the context of talking
00:06:24.340 with you about this, it's like, okay, well, I was the one who provided that opportunity for you to
00:06:29.980 do that. Yeah. And isn't that what we should be doing as leaders is providing people opportunity
00:06:35.760 to go out, to serve, to feel valuable, to have purpose and meaning and responsibility in their lives.
00:06:41.380 Totally. Well, and, and if you don't want me adding, this is a fun conversation because I've
00:06:47.240 seen the, the pendulum swing in this regard where those in a leadership position say, Hey,
00:06:55.880 I need some help. Someone volunteers, but they're not capable of doing it well. And they go, Oh yeah,
00:07:05.440 run with it. Then they run with it. They fell, falls on their face and then erodes. It's like quite
00:07:14.900 ironic, erodes trust and capability, right? In that individual because they didn't deliver. So we got to
00:07:22.000 be careful, right? Commander's 10 is great. All that's great. But Drew's got to be able to deliver.
00:07:27.680 He's got to be the guy. Otherwise, otherwise you're going to set drew up to fail. And that's on you
00:07:34.220 as well. Right. Because he volunteered because he wanted to help and you gave him something that he
00:07:39.920 was not going to win at. Right. Now this is all an example. Right. And so we got to be really careful
00:07:45.120 that it's not just this volunteer thing. Oh, whoever volunteers, give it to them. No, no, no.
00:07:49.380 They got to be capable of winning at the same time. Otherwise, now it could be some stretching in there.
00:07:55.420 That's okay. But man, if they're not capable of winning at the same time, you're going to set them up
00:07:59.940 for failure. And what sucks about that is in some organizations, you do that. And then everyone's
00:08:04.200 like, oh man, that guy didn't deliver. And there's this negative when all they did is do what their
00:08:09.340 willingness to raise their hand and volunteer and probably do something that they didn't
00:08:13.260 yet weren't capable of winning. And you set them up to lose as a leader. Right. So we got to be
00:08:18.880 careful of that. Right. So it's a good point. I, a real world example of that within the iron council,
00:08:24.060 since we're on that, the conversation here is in the past, if I'm, if I'm gone on a Friday,
00:08:30.140 we do our calls on Friday, Friday morning. If I'm gone on a Friday, I need to have somebody like
00:08:34.700 yourself come in and step in and lead that call. In the past, I've done exactly what you said. Hey,
00:08:40.420 who would like to run the call? And so-and-so will raise their hand. And I'm like, great, good. You got it.
00:08:45.080 And then I'll go and I'll come back and I'm like, Ooh, I watched the replay. I'm like,
00:08:48.520 that did not go well. So I've changed from saying, Hey, who would like to do that? To
00:08:56.280 identifying five to six people that I know at any time I could trust to be able to run it.
00:09:01.680 And what I do when I'm gone is I go through that list. Kip, you, you get messages from me.
00:09:06.840 You decline 99% of the time, but you do get messages from me. Hey, Kip, can you run the call?
00:09:11.800 You're like, no, I'm building a home. Hey Kip, can you run the call? No, I'm in France. Hey Kip,
00:09:17.260 can you run the call? Are you keeping track of my, my responses?
00:09:22.020 He's like, well shit, Kip's out. So yeah, I keep score. So Kip's out. So then I moved to so-and-so
00:09:28.900 and so-and-so and so-and-so. So that's, that's actually going to make some of the guys feel bad.
00:09:32.780 They're like, Oh man, I was second. I thought I was number one on the list. I thought I was last
00:09:36.500 time I talked to Ryan, he said he called me first before Kip. Yeah. Anyways. All right. Well,
00:09:42.860 let's get to some questions today. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to field questions from
00:09:47.200 the iron councils. Well, as well as Facebook, um, our first question in the IC Spencer Hancock,
00:09:53.440 my birthday was earlier this month. And for the second time in three years, my wife allowed her
00:09:59.220 family allowed her family to book their family reunion on my birthday. I get that the timing of
00:10:05.320 all five families can be tough, but then my birthday gets forgotten. I grew up in a family where your
00:10:10.140 birthday is a big deal. How would you guys advise me telling my wife that I feel pretty forgotten?
00:10:15.980 Let me add that direct conversation is a strong, is not a strong suit of mine. And one of the reasons
00:10:22.160 why I joined the iron council. I really liked this. I saw some of these questions. I didn't see all of
00:10:27.780 these. I like this. Uh, my knee jerk reaction is bro. It's your birthday. Get over it. Okay. That's my
00:10:35.360 knee jerk reaction. But then if I think about it for just 10 seconds, it doesn't matter if it's important
00:10:41.100 to me. It doesn't matter if it's not the same priority to her or her family or anybody else
00:10:47.180 that it is to you. If you have something that's important to you, do you need no validation,
00:10:52.880 no approval, no, Hey, I hope everybody else feels the same way. It's important to you. And you know
00:10:58.380 what? I actually bet it would be important to her if she knew how important it was to you. 0.51
00:11:03.260 And you're talking about your weakness as being direct communication. That's why she might not
00:11:09.400 even know you might be wallowing and feeling sorry for yourself and feeling like nobody loves you.
00:11:15.180 And yet you failed to communicate what was important to you. Now I started thinking about
00:11:22.220 this question because I really liked this question. What if instead of looking at it as a negative,
00:11:27.780 what if you could celebrate your birthday with her family and five families? Now all of a sudden it
00:11:35.540 becomes a celebration. It's a party. It's not like me and the kids and the wife get together. Now it's
00:11:41.460 everybody's here and we're celebrating my birthday. And I'd be willing to bet if you said,
00:11:45.900 Hey hon, can I just talk with you about something? And it's as hard because we, as men often will
00:11:50.580 slough this off. Like, ah, it's not a big deal. I don't want to burden anybody. Like we talked about
00:11:54.140 earlier. I'll just, to your point, it's just my birthday, but you say that, but it doesn't feel that
00:12:00.400 way. So it doesn't matter what you say. Right. So, you know, you don't need to make demands
00:12:06.780 necessarily, but you might go to her and say, Hey hon, like I got to share something with you that I
00:12:10.740 don't think I've ever really expressed. I grew up where birthdays were a big deal and I really like
00:12:17.720 having a birthday. I really like people coming together that I love and I like receiving gifts
00:12:23.420 or, you know, whatever it is. Like I really liked that. It feels good. But one thing I've noticed
00:12:28.000 is the last two years you've booked family, a family holiday and that's okay. Like I actually love
00:12:34.480 your family. I want to be there and we have a good time, but like, I kind of feel a little bit left
00:12:39.340 out or forgotten when my birthday doesn't get celebrated. Maybe next year, if it's okay with
00:12:45.560 you, if you're comfortable with this, we could still do the family thing, but can we have a
00:12:50.580 birthday party? I would love to do that. And that would be meaningful and significant to me, man.
00:12:56.660 She would do that. Of course she would do that. She wants to do that. She wants to serve you. 0.98
00:13:02.260 She just doesn't know. That's it. She does not know. She doesn't think less of you. She's not
00:13:07.520 trying to ignore you. She's not trying to make you feel bad. She just doesn't know. But if she knew
00:13:12.840 that she's a good spouse, just like you and us as men should strive to be better spouses,
00:13:18.340 she would love to do that for you. But she's just got to know. You're actually setting her up for
00:13:23.340 failure by not telling her. Because what's happening is you're not telling her. This is what we call a
00:13:28.060 covert contract. You're not telling her. And then you're having attitudes and beliefs and feelings,
00:13:34.120 not positive ones, by the way, towards her for something you didn't communicate.
00:13:38.560 So is that her fault or is that your fault? Communicate it with her gently. Let her know what
00:13:45.640 you'd like and see what she does. I bet she steps up. So I want to see if you'd answer or you'd add
00:13:54.020 anything to your answer with this context. At one point in Spencer's question, he really comes down
00:14:02.060 to this one sentence. And I think this is the real question. And I think this is a question that all
00:14:09.180 men, not all men, a lot of men can relate to. How would you guys advise telling my wife
00:14:16.160 that I feel pretty forgotten? Just those words. Period. That's it. I just feel forgotten.
00:14:24.200 That's it. But that makes us appear weak. That's why you're not doing it. I assume. That's why I
00:14:30.960 wouldn't do it. It's not weak to have a feeling about something. It's not weak to have a desire.
00:14:36.460 It's not weak to want to be acknowledged and recognized. Here's another thing that you can do.
00:14:40.380 When she actually acknowledges you, let's say you do a project around the house or
00:14:45.660 you put together a party for one of your children or something. You do something and she acknowledges
00:14:52.420 you for it. Reward her for it by letting her know how you feel about it.
00:14:58.420 I really appreciated you.
00:15:00.160 Yeah. Or even better than that. Even better than I appreciate you. Here's what I would say.
00:15:04.480 Hey, hon, I did that project for you. And I just got to tell you, I don't need it.
00:15:10.380 But when I do a project around the house and it's something that you want done, something
00:15:15.740 that will beautify the home or make it more effective, and you tell me how you feel about
00:15:21.080 it, man, it makes me feel acknowledged. It makes me feel recognized. It makes me feel
00:15:26.940 important. And that might seem silly, but I really like to feel valuable in the home. And
00:15:32.480 so when you acknowledge me that way, I like that. I got to tell you, I like that. So you're
00:15:37.560 reinforcing the behavior that you want her to engage in. And if you do that, she's going 0.95
00:15:43.920 to feel good. She's like, Oh, I served my husband. Oh, he likes what I did. Like she
00:15:47.800 wants that. And then she's going to do more of it because she wants, she wants that just
00:15:53.360 like you do. She wants acknowledgement just like you do.
00:15:56.060 I like that. I like it. I think one thing that I would bring up that I think some of us,
00:16:00.880 or at least I have in the past where I might want to communicate an upset like this will
00:16:07.800 have a tendency to latch on and go, you made me mad when, or I feel forgotten when you put
00:16:14.540 your family before me. So get really present to what you're owning. And I like to say it
00:16:20.220 this way, separate reality from your story, right? And so in Spencer's case, his story is
00:16:26.500 what? That he's forgotten. You hear it. Oh, my wife forgets me. I'm not special. She chooses
00:16:32.460 the family reunion over my birthday, blah, blah, blah. No, the reality is what? That is your family
00:16:37.760 reunion on his birthday. That's it. That's nothing else doing, right? That's it. So, so own your
00:16:44.460 interpretation. Hey money. Hey honey, when we do the family reunion on birthday, I know this is
00:16:50.220 probably not your intention, but I interpret it as where it feels like that I'm, you know, less
00:16:58.080 valued or whatever. And I know that's my interpretation, but you know what I mean? Can we
00:17:03.640 now, can I, then you put your request in, right? Can we celebrate my birthday? Can we do something?
00:17:08.460 So own how you're feeling and communicate how you feel. Don't jump to the conclusion. You know what I
00:17:14.280 mean? Around the story. I like, you said something there. I really like the whole thing I liked,
00:17:19.060 but there was one moment you said, and then you put your request in. Cause what a lot of guys will
00:17:22.940 do is they're like, Hey, when this happens, I feel forgotten. No, not even that. They won't even say
00:17:27.340 it. They won't make any requests. Oh, they'll just like no request. Oh, got it. They'll just say,
00:17:31.260 they'll say, Hey hon, you know, it feels like I'm forgotten. Um, you know, I know this is happening
00:17:36.100 and I just, I feel upset. And then what does she say? She says, okay, sorry about that, honey.
00:17:41.200 Right. I'm sorry. I didn't mean no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't forgetting about you. I didn't. Oh,
00:17:46.660 I'm sorry. And you're like, it's okay. I just wanted to let you know.
00:17:49.300 No, like tell her be assertive. It's in sales. You just know, the number one reason you don't
00:17:55.520 make a sale in sales. Why Kip? Cause you don't ask, you don't ask for it.
00:18:01.060 That's it. You'd put together this beautiful sales presentation and then the client's like,
00:18:05.520 yeah, yeah, yeah. This is cool. And you're like, all right, well, see you later. Like,
00:18:10.420 like on dumb and dumber pickups, huh? Well, see you later. What are you doing?
00:18:15.620 Totally. Okay. Hey, you like the presentation? Good. Here's what I propose. Would you like to
00:18:20.560 move forward with this proposal? It's the same thing in a marriage. Hey hon, I feel forgotten.
00:18:25.300 I know that's not your intent, but this is how it makes me feel. And she's like, I didn't mean it
00:18:28.720 like that at all. Say that's okay. I'm hoping maybe next year we can do dot, dot, dot propose a solution.
00:18:35.300 Yeah. And you have a solution by the way, like some guys might like, oh, I just wanted to let
00:18:40.480 her know. No, you have an expectation of communicating that and that something's going
00:18:45.040 to change. So you better communicate whatever that expectation is and put it into a form of
00:18:49.160 an ask. So then that way you don't have back to what you said earlier, a covert contract.
00:18:53.800 I think the most important thing that we need to recognize here in assertive communication is
00:18:58.200 people want to serve you. People want to be valuable. They want to please you. Um, they want to feel
00:19:04.440 important. They want to have responsibility. So give it to them by telling them and it makes it
00:19:10.140 less scary. All right. Next question. Hey, Bobby, Katie, life throws a lot at you at different times
00:19:16.740 in your life. What's one thing you do now to keep you grounded and focused on the mission at hand
00:19:23.280 mine. When my wife was battling cancer, I stayed focused on being the, being that for her, obviously,
00:19:29.280 but I also being that positive reinforcement that everything goes, that everything's going to be
00:19:34.420 okay. I really think that the time in the IC in 75 hard gave me the groundworks to help her and
00:19:40.740 myself get through that hard time. So I had a really difficult things. Yeah. Yeah. I had a good
00:19:47.700 podcast over the weekend with his name is Greg Harden. He's a mindset coach to some of the greatest
00:19:52.320 athletes ever. Tom Brady, Desmond Howard, Michael Phelps. He's a mindset coach to these guys. It's coming
00:19:58.480 out. Yeah. Tuesday. So if you're listening to this, it came out yesterday, go back and listen to it.
00:20:03.140 And he talks about the four A's that all humans desire. And that is attention. I'm pulling up my
00:20:09.740 notes from the interview because I saved my notes, attention, affection, approval, and acceptance.
00:20:15.840 And the way that he frames it early in the book is that's what we're seeking from others. And the way
00:20:19.640 that he frames it later in the book is he says, put a self in front of that self-attention,
00:20:23.620 self-affection, self-approval, self-acceptance. We need to spend more time in those arenas taking
00:20:34.520 care of ourselves. And I asked him, I said, is this selfish? And he says, yeah, but why is that
00:20:38.820 bad? And he said something to the effect, and I'm looking through my notes here. He said something to
00:20:43.720 the effect of, oh, here it is. We need to eliminate the dramatics of selfishness. He says,
00:20:52.540 everybody dramatizes it. We make it out to be this big, negative, big, bad wolf. It's not. It's
00:20:57.660 drama. It's not bad to be selfish. In fact, if you're selfish, then you're more capable of serving
00:21:02.760 others. So if you can find a way, and this is 30,000 foot views type stuff, but if you can find a
00:21:08.760 way to give yourself some self-attention in a way that's meaningful to you, then that's what you need
00:21:12.240 to do when things are hard. Self-attention might be training, might be working out, might be picking
00:21:18.320 up a new hobby, might be working on a project, might be working on a speech, might be reading
00:21:22.240 some books, might be binge watching suits on Netflix. I don't know what it is, but it's self-attention.
00:21:28.280 It's something for you. Self-affection, for me, it's we always focus on the negative. I'm not good at
00:21:35.380 this. I failed here. I did this bad. I did this poorly. Instead, it's like, okay, well, what have
00:21:39.760 I done well? Well, Ryan, you're a pretty decent father most of the time. Look at this home that
00:21:47.060 you're trying to create for your kids. Look at this movement that you've created. You're worthy
00:21:51.480 of affection. That's valuable stuff. And so you go through this whole list of things, and then you
00:21:57.080 figure out ways to give yourself more self-attention, more self-affection, more self-approval,
00:22:01.220 and more self-acceptance. The beauty of this is now we're no longer reliant on external factors.
00:22:06.960 For example, your wife battling cancer. Not to diminish the struggle of that, but it's an
00:22:14.260 external factor that you don't have any control over. You have control over your response to it,
00:22:19.340 medically and emotionally and mentally. But if you build this within yourself, these four A's within
00:22:25.240 yourself, you're going to be more capable of managing those external factors that are beyond
00:22:29.980 your control. Mine's a divorce in the past eight months now. Yeah. Like I don't have any control
00:22:37.440 over that. So I've got to figure out ways to give myself self-attention. And the hard one for me
00:22:41.920 is self-affection. Like I can give that to other people. Kip, I really care about you. I love you
00:22:49.340 like a brother. I care about you. I want you to succeed. I see so much good in you when things maybe
00:22:55.120 aren't going as well. I want to support you. I don't do that for myself though. Yeah. I do it for
00:23:01.280 other people. So these four A's people seek after just by human nature. And the premise of his book 1.00
00:23:12.000 is don't go externally for those. You need to address those with yourself. Like have that address
00:23:19.460 attention and affection and those. And, and that's, that's really awesome. I like, I'm excited about
00:23:25.060 this podcast that comes out tomorrow or yesterday. Yesterday. Yeah. Because I, it's unfair too,
00:23:34.220 right? Like that, that's the main thing I think about a little bit is when I'm so externally,
00:23:39.240 I need the attention and validation, let's say from my wife, it that's exhausting to think about.
00:23:45.580 It's like, it's so unfair, right? Like what, let's say I put that on you, Ryan. It's like,
00:23:50.020 Hey, you know what? My day will go fine, Ryan, but man, dude, you got to show up really powerfully
00:23:54.880 today. And, and you got to feed my ego and you got to make sure I feel affectionate and blah, blah,
00:23:59.620 blah. Otherwise, you know what? I'm going to have a bad day. I'm going to put that all on you instead.
00:24:04.460 Let's be clear though, Kip. I am not your wife. Like, I just want to be very clear on that. So
00:24:09.400 cause you said wife with you, Ryan, for example, hold on a second here,
00:24:13.960 but you know what I mean? Like that'd be so unfair, that's unfair to her. That's unfair 1.00
00:24:17.960 to relationships. I mean, I, I dated girls before, before Asia and I got married and one girl, I,
00:24:25.100 I thought she was amazing, but it was exhausting. I had to show up perfectly every day. If I had a bad
00:24:32.800 day, it was, everything was going to go South because she was so dependent on how I showed up 1.00
00:24:40.160 for how she would feel today. And it it's unfair to put that on people too.
00:24:47.040 I agree. I agree. I guess the question I would ask, and I'm not going to really give any answers
00:24:51.380 here, but we probably will throughout the rest of the podcast. But the question I would ask is
00:24:54.480 how Bobby and other people that are listening, how do you give attention to yourself and how would you
00:25:00.780 like to, how do you, what, what practices do you have in place that will help you have some
00:25:05.140 self-affection? How do you approve of yourself when it comes to approving of yourself? I think
00:25:09.580 we've talked about this a lot. I think it's being a man of your word and integrity, because if you
00:25:13.760 wake up this morning and you were, and you set your alarm for six o'clock and you woke up at six,
00:25:18.040 then that's an approval. That's a little, little tick mark in the, in the, Hey, I did good today.
00:25:23.000 And then self-acceptance, which is realizing that you have faults and demons and negativity and
00:25:31.880 past mistakes. Do you know what, without those, you wouldn't be who you are. Um, I tend to personally
00:25:40.240 because I do, I am driven and I am motivated and I can maintain focus pretty well is I end up leaving
00:25:49.060 a wake of collateral damage in my path with things that detract me from what my singular pursuit is in
00:25:55.340 the moment. And I'm not saying they're always the right things, but that's what happens. That's a
00:26:00.140 double-edged sword or maybe a catch 22, meaning I'm hyper-focused. I can achieve what I want,
00:26:05.780 but damn, if I didn't ruin my family in the process. Yeah. So do I, what do I get rid of?
00:26:11.720 Do I get rid of the, the, the ability that I have to leave a wake of collateral damage in my path?
00:26:18.840 Or do I get rid of my drive and my focus? I don't know which one you choose.
00:26:23.180 Or do you learn to switch your drive and focus? So then that way you kill it in all areas. Right.
00:26:30.360 But you got to turn off that focus and redirect it when appropriate. Right. Exactly. Yeah. You know,
00:26:36.460 one thing to answer Bobby's question that has helped me in this past year, and I'm not, uh,
00:26:42.480 I just thought it was insightful. There's a book called the extraordinary leader, uh, Zinger
00:26:46.520 Folkman's one of the authors. And the whole premise of that book is that we all have like super talents,
00:26:52.600 gifts and, and kind of gifts. And, and as from a leadership development perspective,
00:26:57.900 there's value in doubling down on what we're good at and become extraordinary. Almost the opposite of
00:27:04.040 what we'd assume, right? Cause the human nature, and I know this about you, Ryan is if you took a,
00:27:08.680 if you, if you had a bunch of people take an assessment, you would look at, you'd skip all
00:27:13.360 the great things that people said, and you'd jump down to the lowest score and you'd be like,
00:27:17.780 nah, you know what I mean? And, and what I like about that premise of that book is,
00:27:22.600 like, no, move back up to the top, right? Like kind of get connected to where your talents are
00:27:28.880 and, and how do you strengthen them? And, and so that idea really makes me feel better too,
00:27:36.200 right? When I think about it, it's like, Hey, you know what? There are things I'm good at.
00:27:39.720 And when I, when I'm willing to ask and, or through an assessment process or whatever,
00:27:45.060 and I hear these things, I, I go, okay, yeah, I actually have some talents. I, I, I,
00:27:51.680 that I'm bringing to the table and how do I strengthen those? And, and almost kind of like,
00:27:56.040 what is my brand as a man and how do I embrace it and, and use those to serve people more than I
00:28:03.700 have been. And, and that for whatever reason kind of gets me grounded where I'm not just focusing on
00:28:09.360 the negative, but yeah. Yeah. Good question, Bobby. I actually like that. All right. Taylor Kirk.
00:28:15.580 I recently accepted a job with a great company in Dallas. I'm about five weeks in and everything
00:28:20.800 is progressing well with a great team and manager. I recently had an opportunity to test
00:28:25.640 with the FAA for air traffic control school, which is something I've always wanted to do.
00:28:31.720 The question is, what would be your advice in regards to determine if I should take the FFA
00:28:36.720 opportunity, assuming he gets the offer or staying with the current employer since I just started for
00:28:42.640 a context, I had already accepted my current role before receiving the invitation to test for the FAA.
00:28:49.720 Okay. I'm going to reframe. I saw this question. I'm going to reframe this question. I'm going to
00:28:53.120 strip everything else out of it. That's unnecessary. The question is this, should I remain loyal to a
00:29:01.120 company that will not be loyal to me in exchange for pursuing a dream that I have?
00:29:07.480 Well, do we need to say any more to that question? No, no, there's nothing more to it.
00:29:17.660 The only, the, the other thing that triggered like the red flag guy said is, is take this
00:29:21.980 opportunity, assuming I get your, your, you're trying to make a choice when you don't even know
00:29:27.140 yet. So like get to the point of taking the test. So that way you have, like, he's trying to determine
00:29:33.080 if he should stay or go when go is only based upon a test that he hasn't even taken yet. Right. So
00:29:38.500 like, you know, be mindful of that, take the test. So that way we even have options first. Right. But
00:29:45.020 yeah, but I like your point way better. Yeah. The only caveat to that is other responsibilities. I know
00:29:52.540 those, for example, if you're married and you have kids, like there's considerations, right?
00:29:57.540 Even in that situation, I would still tell you, Hey, you and your wife can eat rice and beans for 0.66
00:30:04.020 a couple of years. And you know, your kids are going to be okay. And maybe Christmas isn't as
00:30:09.620 lucrative as it once was a year or two ago. And so what you're chasing your dream. You want to get
00:30:14.840 to the end of your life? 65, 70, 75, 80 years old. And you're like, you know, damn, I should have done
00:30:20.200 that thing. And that's exactly what you would be thinking. Yeah. I would have been out a little money.
00:30:25.160 I would have had to travel a little bit and I would have been away from my family, you know,
00:30:28.300 a little bit, a few more days or a few. It's exactly what you'll be thinking. So that's a
00:30:33.380 no brainer to me. Go take your test. Go pursue what you want. If this company is that you're
00:30:39.840 working with, as long as you do a good job and you break it off amicably, there's probably an
00:30:44.540 opportunity to come back at some point. Like any reasonable person is going to say, Hey, you know what?
00:30:49.740 Damn, that sucks. But I understand. I get it. Yeah. I mean, if an employee, an employer,
00:30:54.860 or an employee came to you and said, Oh my gosh, I just started Ryan. I'm loving the job, but
00:30:59.980 my dream opportunity just presented itself. And I, I got to take this. You would totally be like,
00:31:07.660 yeah, like, got it. Makes sense. I mean, I might be upset as an employer. Like I might've invested
00:31:12.860 in you. So what? Just so what? Like live your life. You know, that you have risk going to work
00:31:19.120 with an organization and they have risk and they're willing to assume the risk that you might
00:31:23.880 leave. And you're willing to assume the risk that maybe you won't like it. Like there's risk we take
00:31:28.400 in everything. And in this case, you know, the company that you are working with may have lost
00:31:33.420 out on a great employee. That's all factored into the, that's all baked into the cake as they say.
00:31:38.860 Yeah. Aaron Kanatsar, what are some tactics that you guys have employed to be more introspective
00:31:46.880 in regards to personal battles, areas of needed growth, battling previous trauma and et cetera,
00:31:53.620 when self-reflection is difficult or even painful to do? Thanks for everything that you guys do.
00:32:00.120 I personally like journaling. And what I've, I think one of the reasons I like journaling so much
00:32:05.860 is because when I, you're talking about self-reflection, for me, it gets stuck in my
00:32:12.060 brain and then it just becomes an echo chamber where it's bouncing off and I can never release
00:32:17.380 it. It's like, you're horrible. You're not good at this. You failed. You did this. And so it's like
00:32:20.940 bouncing around in my brain. It's like, you're horrible. You're bad. You're this and that. And
00:32:23.980 it just feeds off and it just spirals into this never ending circle of, of despair. But for me,
00:32:30.740 I think this can happen in one of a couple of ways. I don't think it's enough just to go
00:32:35.740 blow off steam somewhere. Yeah. Like some people say, let's go work out. I mean, yeah,
00:32:41.580 you'll feel better because you're tired. That's why you're just tired. You're exhausted. You focus
00:32:46.900 all your energy on something else and you're tired and it alleviates the pressure for a little while.
00:32:50.860 So, I mean, there's value in that. It's a distraction method, but you're not actually
00:32:54.860 solving the problem unless you use your working out as time to reflect on and you're extracting
00:33:00.540 lessons from those experiences. Jiu-jitsu is a great example of that. If you go to class and you
00:33:04.880 just roll and then you come back and you're like, yeah, it was good, good, good class,
00:33:08.260 but you don't extract any of the lessons. Oh, that guy caught me in an arm bar, but how did he catch
00:33:12.440 me in an arm bar? Oh, you know, I did this and then he did that and I did this and then he responded
00:33:16.280 and that's what happened. Okay. Now you're a better player because you were reflecting on it.
00:33:21.660 So for me, journaling really helps because the minute I put pen to paper and I'm not talking
00:33:26.080 about on a computer, I I've got my journal right here. The minute I put pen to paper,
00:33:31.600 it gets out of here and I can see it a little differently, more objectively, more clearly.
00:33:35.980 So that's good. Um, another way that you can do that is by talking with other men and, and that's
00:33:41.060 hard because you need to go to another man and say, Hey, you know what? I'm struggling with something.
00:33:44.420 Can I talk to you about this? He's going to say yes, by the way, uh, which might be good or bad,
00:33:50.020 depending on if you really wanted to have the conversation or not. And then you need to open up
00:33:54.400 and you need to share what's going on and that, that person will listen potentially, or they'll
00:33:59.780 offer some feedback or they'll give you a different perspective. And that's really, really healthy
00:34:04.120 because now it's getting out of your brain and into the real world. And you can start seeing things
00:34:08.600 from a perspective that you couldn't see before. So, uh, that's what I like those two tactics talking
00:34:13.980 with other men. In fact, I did that this weekend. I called a buddy up. I'm like, Hey, here's what I'm
00:34:16.960 going through. Like you have a minute to talk. And we haven't been able to over the weekend
00:34:19.900 cause he was gone, but we're going to do that this week. And, you know, that just took me making
00:34:24.580 a quick call and a text and saying, Hey, this is what I need. And he's like, cool. What, what are we
00:34:28.180 doing? When can we do it? Um, journaling, you know, buy a journal at Walmart or target or wherever your
00:34:33.460 place is and just start writing about what you're thinking, experiencing, feeling, and just get it all
00:34:38.300 out. I have two writing prompts that I've used in the past. The one is cause he might like, Oh, I'm going to
00:34:49.160 journal tomorrow morning. And then like, nothing comes to mind. I would, if you want to be really
00:34:53.300 intentional here, I'd say in what areas of your life is something incomplete or unresolved. And I
00:35:02.880 would actually journal about it, how you feel about it, situation, which you know what I mean? And try
00:35:09.440 to follow your thought process to a conclusion of some sort. The other thing I've done, and this has
00:35:15.180 been years, but it was actually like a really powerful exercise is I wrote my sob story, my
00:35:23.060 drama, right? Like, Oh, like, and we all have them like literally. And I, and I latch onto it all the
00:35:30.500 time. Like I'll, I'll, I'll throw in how I was raised and, you know, and it's this, this buildup of,
00:35:37.180 you know, Whoa, poor Kip and look what I've achieved. And it has this, it's almost like this
00:35:42.340 dramatic feel to it. And I'll tap into it every so often when, when Asia introduced me to someone
00:35:47.020 new, I'll be like, Oh, I'll pull some of that up from my past and make me look good. And, and,
00:35:52.460 and we have this, we all have it. We have this story around our identity and, and we use it to
00:35:59.300 our benefit. We'll even use these personal battles and trauma to our benefit. So people feel, so we can
00:36:06.100 feel sorry for ourselves. And I went through this exercise once where I wrote it down. It was like
00:36:11.380 two pages long and I'd read it like 20 times. And after like the 20th time, I was like, that is so
00:36:20.380 made up. That is so dramatic. And it's just, it's silly to even hear you read it out loud. You're like,
00:36:29.480 Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is in my head. Right. And this is what I tell myself all the time.
00:36:34.380 So just play with the, the difference between the stories that we create and reality.
00:36:42.900 And, but I, I, I, right now I'm now thinking in my head, it's like, I don't, I want to be careful
00:36:48.600 here. Cause Ryan said something you said earlier that I feel really passionate about is like, Hey,
00:36:53.560 if it's dramatic, it's dramatic. So I don't want to downplay our, our, our troubles and our struggles.
00:37:00.820 That's not what my intent here is, but get present to the story that you, that we're creating versus
00:37:09.060 reality. And one way to do that is through those two, two exercises. Well, one thing you said,
00:37:15.500 if it's dramatic, it's dramatic. That's not true. That's true. That's not true at all. Two plus two
00:37:21.360 equals four is true. Yeah. Yeah. Like H2O water is H2O, which is, you know, two, two parts,
00:37:28.800 hydrogen, one part oxygen. Like that's true. Yeah. But dramatic is not true. It's how you feel about
00:37:37.280 a thing. And I'm not trying to invalidate how somebody feels about a thing. I'm just wondering
00:37:42.300 if we can give ourselves a different perspective by making life more challenging in certain aspects or
00:37:46.980 pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zone. I mean, how many times have you, uh, been now in an
00:37:52.440 altercation specifically on the mats where, you know, eight years ago you would have freaked out
00:37:58.560 and tapped. Yeah. And now you're like, Oh, I mean, that doesn't feel good, but it's like, I'm okay.
00:38:04.720 Yeah. What's the difference? It's all perspective. It's all just time. It's all just like, Hey,
00:38:09.100 I'm, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with this discomfort. That's okay. Um, I, I do like what you're saying
00:38:14.520 about, um, even thinking about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. You're talking about
00:38:20.140 looking at it objectively. I would call that consciousness where you're actually consciously
00:38:24.260 looking at your story, not through your own lens, but the lens of an objective passerby.
00:38:29.760 And you start reading and you're like, no, that's not true. But through your lens, it felt really,
00:38:34.180 really accurate. And, and so one thing I like to do is I like to, in that situation, I might ask
00:38:41.320 if somebody else was telling me this story, how would I feel about it? I would say, Oh my gosh,
00:38:48.300 this guy is dramatic. This guy is like so negative. This guy is like, well, what's with this guy?
00:38:55.220 Like, that's how I would feel. And you're telling that about yourself. Another little exercise is
00:39:00.500 the way that you talk about yourself. Like I'm a horrible human being. I'm no good. Um, I'm a loser.
00:39:06.980 Go tell that to somebody else today. Would you do that to somebody else? Not even that, just see how
00:39:15.100 you feel about doing it. Kip, if I came to you and I said, Kip, you're a fricking loser, man. You're
00:39:20.620 pathetic. You're no good. I don't care about your achievements because all of the negative shit that
00:39:25.400 you've done in your life overshadows any achievements. You're a bum, you're a loser, and you're never going
00:39:31.200 to amount to anything. I would never in a million years say that to you. And yet I'm willing to say it
00:39:36.420 about myself. Yeah. So that's what I'm talking about, putting it in different contexts and
00:39:41.840 consciousness and looking at it more objectively than the subjective lens in which you're viewing
00:39:48.060 it. Yeah. Eric Peterson, how do you recommend men who have made it solid job, good relationships,
00:39:57.180 et cetera, continue to strive and find and create difficulty in their lives so they don't become
00:40:02.200 complacent? I got to get rid of the phrase. I made it. You made what? What did you, what did you
00:40:08.940 make? You made good money relative to what your loser neighbor that, you know, that's like strung out
00:40:15.940 and doesn't have any education or drive. Well, congratulations. You're better than him. Yeah. Cool.
00:40:22.700 What does that mean? And I'm not trying to throw the neighbor under the bus here, but I'm saying like,
00:40:27.080 you're you've made it compared to what? Oh, good. You're, you're in a, you're in a 10 year marriage,
00:40:31.720 but your parents only lasted five years. Well, congratulations. There's people that have done
00:40:35.600 it for 20, 30, 40, 60, 70 years. So you've made it like, who are you comparing yourself to?
00:40:41.840 Or, or even, I think even more, even better is you're going to limit your potential. You say,
00:40:47.880 okay, so you made 200 grand this year. So you're okay with that. You might be, and that's okay.
00:40:53.360 I'm not here to judge and tell you what you should or should make, but if you're not okay with that,
00:40:56.720 then there's guys that are making $200,000 this week. So have you really made it? You might have,
00:41:04.600 and you know, I'm not here to tell you that what you're doing is inadequate. I don't know.
00:41:09.000 I don't know what your priorities are. I don't know what your goals are. I don't know what your
00:41:11.840 dreams are. I don't know what your hopes are. I don't know any of that, but it sounds to me like
00:41:15.440 there's a conflict between, Hey, I'm doing pretty well and I want to do better. Good. Then get rid of the, 0.57
00:41:20.220 I'm doing pretty well thing. Like I've made it. I've arrived and start thinking about what's next.
00:41:25.660 What do I want to do next? You know, here's my marriage. Here's my relationship, but here's
00:41:30.100 what I'd like it to look like. Here's how I'm connected to my kids, but here's how I'd like
00:41:33.740 to be connected to my kids. Here's the amount of money that I'm making right now. And I feel
00:41:37.140 pretty good about that. I've done pretty well for myself, but here's what I'd like to be making.
00:41:40.980 And here's how I'm going to do it. You know, my body, I'm pretty lean. I'm strong and fit,
00:41:45.220 but that's not all I have. There's more to it than that. Let me see what else I can do.
00:41:50.220 So let's, I think we need to get rid of the, I've made it mentality and start looking at
00:41:55.420 something else. All right, guys, we were having some technical difficulties. So Kip is unable to
00:42:00.460 make it back on the call before our time wrapped up for today. So, um, with that said, I think we'll
00:42:05.540 just wrap it up today. You guys had some great questions. We appreciate those questions and
00:42:09.180 hopefully we gave you some information and some ideas to consider in your own life. Keep the questions
00:42:13.880 rolling. Uh, also remember that we're going to be opening up the iron council on September 15th,
00:42:19.620 excuse me, September 15th. If you go to order a man.com slash iron council, uh, you'll be able
00:42:24.900 to drop your email in there and be notified when we open back up. Also want to give a shout out to
00:42:31.040 my good friends and show sponsors, Montana knife company. Uh, just started working with these guys
00:42:36.200 in a more formal setting. I've been friends with them for years. Hunts are coming up this year and I
00:42:40.480 would highly, highly encourage you to go check out Montana knife company, uh, to see what knives they
00:42:45.480 have. I've been using their knives or breaking down animals and butchering animals and even their
00:42:51.020 culinary set in the kitchen for years now. And I can't speak highly enough about this American made
00:42:56.120 knife company. Go check it out. Montana knife company.com. All right, guys, I appreciate you.
00:43:01.700 Go check out the iron council. Stay tuned, stay connected with us. Let's all go out there,
00:43:06.340 take action and become the man we are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:43:11.620 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:43:15.840 We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.