Order of Man - The Dangers of Political Correctness, Cancel Culture, and "Wokeness" ｜ ZUBY

00:00:00.000 political correctness, cancel culture, and quote unquote, wokeness are destroying our ability to

00:00:05.440 have important discussions about some of the most complex problems that we're dealing with.

00:00:10.380 Ironically, the people that continually engage in this behavior say they're trying to help,

00:00:14.720 but end up doing the exact opposite. And that's why I'm stoked to introduce you to my guest today,

00:00:20.180 Zuby, to talk about these current issues and so much more. We discuss why people have such

00:00:26.060 a difficult time engaging in intellectual dialogue, breaking the mold of people's expectations,

00:00:32.580 the future of humanity, both good and bad, and why the woke are destroying civil and critical discourse.

00:00:38.980 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:44.240 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:50.220 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:57.520 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:02.900 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:08.440 of this podcast, The Movement to Reclaim and Restore Masculinity, Order of Man. I'm glad that you're

00:01:13.580 tuning in. This is going to be a great conversation today and one that's quite different than we've had

00:01:18.200 in the past. And I'm trying to expand the type of guests that we have on the podcast, the type of

00:01:23.220 conversations that we're having. And I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts as we continue this

00:01:27.900 discussion on what it means to be a man and expanding into how that impacts not only our families and

00:01:34.220 ourselves, but our cultures, our societies, our neighborhoods, our communities. It's very,

00:01:38.840 very important. And this is a critical component of what it means to be a man to turn outwards and

00:01:43.980 consider how it's impacting humanity in general. So this is going to be a good one. Before I get

00:01:48.600 into the introduction and the conversation, I just want to mention my friends and show sponsors

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00:02:50.980 origin, Maine, use the code order. All right, guys, we're getting into this one fairly quickly because

00:02:55.980 it is a very, very fascinating discussion. And like I said earlier, one that we really haven't

00:03:02.140 broached and had too much here on this podcast, but I think it's going to be

00:03:05.240 very important for us to speak about these things more than maybe we have in the past.

00:03:11.020 My guest today is unlike any other. His name is Zuby. He's a rapper. He's got his own podcast.

00:03:17.180 He's a public speaker. He's an entrepreneur. And he's also a graduate from Oxford university.

00:03:21.320 I started following Zuby on Twitter several months ago when I saw him doing a video of him deadlifting

00:03:30.460 and breaking the British women's deadlifting record in an attempt to bring some, well, what I think is

00:03:36.360 logic to the discussion that men and women are absolutely biologically different. He's a man who

00:03:41.940 is unafraid to share the way that he views the world. He's been dubbed very controversial, even

00:03:48.140 though he's really not at all. And we actually discussed that in the conversation. So gentlemen,

00:03:53.540 please enjoy my fascinating discussion with the one and only Zuby Zuby, what's up, man? Glad to

00:03:59.940 have you in the podcast. Happy to be here, man. How you doing? Good, good. Yeah. I've, uh, man,

00:04:04.380 I've wanted to have this conversation for the past couple of months. Uh, I've been following you on

00:04:07.880 Twitter for a while and then I think I heard you on Rogan and some other podcasts. I thought, man,

00:04:11.800 this is a guy I got to get on the show. Awesome, man. I appreciate it. What we need is we need,

00:04:16.080 uh, we need truth tellers in a, uh, in a society that seems to be very wary or scared. I think

00:04:23.620 that's what it is. Maybe fear of telling the truth. It's nice to see somebody who's willing

00:04:26.960 to say it like it is. And at the risk of offending a lot of people, it's, uh, it's refreshing.

00:04:33.560 Yeah, man. It's funny. Cause I think I'm like on paper, technically, I feel like I'm one of the,

00:04:39.100 one of the least offensive, least controversial, least controversial people out there. If we lived in

00:04:44.340 any sort of semblance of a normal world, I really haven't changed much over my life and I've never

00:04:49.140 been someone who's been deemed remotely controversial in my personal life, in my, in my

00:04:53.620 music, in anything. I mean, I don't even cuss. I've never done, I've never done any drugs. I've

00:04:58.660 never smoked a cigarette. Um, I don't have any baby mamas, anything like that. So the whole, 0.69

00:05:03.300 the whole notion of me even being controversial, I must say that I do find funny and as a good indicator

00:05:09.780 of where we sort of currently are. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's pretty ironic. I mean,

00:05:15.020 you talk about don't, you don't, don't smoke, don't drink, don't cuss. Even that itself is,

00:05:20.440 I'm sure somebody's offended by that. You know, I, I had a podcast I did the other day and I used,

00:05:24.960 uh, the F word. I don't, I try not to swear. I might drop a little language here and there,

00:05:28.800 but I use the F word in one of my posts and, you know, I had a bunch of people, oh, you shouldn't

00:05:32.540 swear. And then, you know, you don't swear. And it's like, well, why don't you swear? Do you have a

00:05:35.360 problem with language? It's like, no matter what you do, like people are upset about something.

00:05:39.500 Yeah. People think it's, uh, people think it's maybe an act or you get people are like, oh,

00:05:44.440 I don't trust people who don't drink. You must be hiding something. Or I don't trust people who

00:05:48.680 don't cuss. It's like, no, I don't, I don't go around policing other people and trying to

00:05:52.420 stop them from doing these things. But it's just like a personal decision. I never,

00:05:57.220 I was never into these things. So I'm not going to suddenly jump, jump in the music studio and start,

00:06:02.340 start dropping F bombs just, uh, to make some weird person happy. So weird person. That's a

00:06:09.540 great point. I just, I just think there's this, the, this, you know, you should do it this way,

00:06:15.880 or maybe not should, but just some sort of expectation, right? So all of us fit into these

00:06:20.680 little molds. Uh, you as a, uh, a black rapper, for example, me as a white guy with a big beard,

00:06:27.440 like people see that and they're like, oh, this guy's supposed to act this way. He's supposed to do

00:06:32.180 these things. This is supposed to be his circumstance. And then when you fall outside

00:06:35.880 of that mold, I think, frankly, it just pisses people off because they're surprised or, or it

00:06:40.860 represents a threat to who they are. Yeah. Well, I think people like to form, you know,

00:06:46.020 we hear all the time about how you shouldn't prejudge people, but the reality is we all do to

00:06:51.260 some degree and to some extent and, you know, to a, to a light degree, I don't think there's anything

00:06:56.220 inherently wrong with it. And also I don't think there's anything that can be done about it,

00:07:00.060 but when people take it to these levels where they kind of just see what somebody looks like,

00:07:05.340 or maybe they hear one or two things that they say, and they try to create this whole sort of

00:07:10.100 caricature or avatar of who they think you are and what they think you believe and what they think

00:07:16.920 your whole life story is and try to just read all of this stuff into you. And lo and behold,

00:07:22.780 unsurprisingly, if you tried to do that with anybody, you're probably going to be pretty wrong,

00:07:27.280 at least on some counts. We're just so multi-dimensional, right? There isn't just

00:07:32.840 one thing that defines all of us and we don't fit into these perfect molds, especially when we're

00:07:37.620 exposed to so much information on social media, uh, and the world is so small. Like I know you just

00:07:43.140 had a U S tour and I don't know how many States or places you hit, but it seemed like you were all

00:07:47.680 over the place. And so you have these combinations of, of cultures and experiences and ideas and,

00:07:53.420 and insights. And so we're just mall set multifaceted. There isn't just one way to

00:07:58.220 describe any one individual. No, not at all, man. Um, and I feel, you know, deep down, we all know

00:08:03.700 that, don't we? Like we all know that everybody's an individual and everybody is different and

00:08:07.800 everyone has different, everyone literally looks different. Everyone has different capacities and

00:08:13.760 levels and interests and capabilities and all that, which is what makes the world really interesting.

00:08:20.500 I mean, if you were to go outside and there were like 10 different types of people and

00:08:24.760 they were just sort of clones of each other, then that would be pretty boring, right? It

00:08:29.800 wouldn't be fun to talk to anybody or get to know anybody or to travel to different countries or

00:08:34.500 anything if everyone was just totally the same. So I think that's, um, yeah, I mean, that's, that's

00:08:39.620 great and that's beautiful. And it's weird. Yeah. You know, we're kind of living in this moment

00:08:44.980 and this time, which, which I hope will pass where people are sort of trying to define people

00:08:51.100 rather than look at people as individuals, you know, kind of grow, go back to these weird

00:08:55.560 sort of group characteristics and just very base surface level immutable characteristics,

00:09:01.480 which don't really tell you much about most people in most instances. Um, you know, you'll hear

00:09:08.060 people saying, Oh, okay. You know, we've got, uh, we, we have diversity because we have a white woman 0.89

00:09:13.640 and a black man and a, um, Asian woman who is, uh, there, and we've got a trans person and a gay

00:09:21.240 person. And, and it's like, that doesn't like that. That's one sort of very surface level element of

00:09:29.720 what someone could consider diversity. Sure. But the truth is if you have any room of people,

00:09:35.220 even if they did all happen to be black guys or white guys with beards, um, all, not all white

00:09:41.560 guys with beards have the same views, views and opinions and ideas. How can that be surprising to

00:09:48.400 people? Yeah. That's the thing. It's like, that that's obvious in one sense, but the way people

00:09:53.180 talk, you wouldn't necessarily glean that it's obvious or when people are like, Oh, you know,

00:09:58.200 you get this idea, like all black people think the same or have the same views. And it's like, 0.95

00:10:03.000 no, really no. There's like a, there's a billion of us. That's quite a, there's, there's a range

00:10:08.820 there. Um, you know, or all white men have the same views or all black. And it's just, 0.56

00:10:14.680 I mean, it, firstly, it's kind of offensive because that's like legitimate, you know,

00:10:19.380 I don't like to throw around the terms racism and sexism when they're not.

00:10:22.020 That is legitimate racism.

00:10:24.200 Yeah. But by definition.

00:10:25.960 Right. Right.

00:10:27.120 Like that, that's actually, you know, legitimate racial prejudice or, or sex prejudice or whatever.

00:10:33.020 If I just see a woman and I'm just like, okay, I can infer, you know, from, if you see a man or

00:10:38.180 a woman, yeah, you can infer a couple of things like about their, their biology and maybe their, uh, 1.00

00:10:44.520 potential strength and stuff like that. And their chances of getting certain diseases or something

00:10:49.400 like that. Sure. That exists. But beyond that, in terms of their personalities or what they're

00:10:55.400 into or what kind of person they are or what they believe, it literally tells you absolutely nothing.

00:11:01.000 Yeah. Well, I, you know, I think diversity is important because you do have all these

00:11:05.560 different experiences and ideas coming to the table. So long as everybody has, I don't know,

00:11:11.240 the same destination or ultimate goal or objective, because then that diversity will expose weaknesses

00:11:16.920 and strengths and hopefully, hopefully shore up your ability to get to where you want to go.

00:11:21.540 I think the problem comes in diversity when you have the two different tribes, if you will,

00:11:28.420 and whether you want to set that up geographically or, uh, um, economically that are at direct odds

00:11:35.600 with each other, that I think that diversity then becomes a potential threat. And so I think people 0.99

00:11:40.120 are kind of conflating the two ideas that diversity is bad when it's not the diversity that's bad.

00:11:46.180 It's the ideals that may create a problem. Yeah, I agree with that. I think, um, you know,

00:11:52.700 you get a lot of talk at the moment about stuff like multiculturalism, does multiculturalism work

00:11:57.180 or does it not work? And again, it's, it's tricky because people sort of with a lot of words, people

00:12:03.220 mean and hear and understand different things when they hear these words. So when one person hears

00:12:08.700 diversity, one person is just, they're thinking of like, uh, skin color and gender and sexuality,

00:12:14.480 because that's kind of how they've been programmed to think. Another person is thinking diversity of

00:12:18.780 thought. If you use words like equality, people think different things. If you say words like

00:12:22.880 multiculturalism, people infer different things. Um, so I feel like in one, in one definition,

00:12:29.140 I think multiculturalism does work. And in another definition, it kind of doesn't, which is what you

00:12:36.120 were alluding to earlier. If you take two cultures, which are totally at odds on certain values or 0.89

00:12:43.380 ideas or even laws and things like that, and you try to throw them together in the same place, then

00:12:48.880 it's going to lead to conflict because neither of them, they don't agree on the destination and nor

00:12:55.560 the way to get there. Um, however, if they're on the same page, but there are people who happen to

00:13:02.000 be from different racial or ethnic or whatever backgrounds or different geographical areas,

00:13:05.860 but they're all on the same page of the most sort of basic tenants and ideas, and they're trying to

00:13:11.080 reach the same destination. And yeah, totally fine. Of course, of course that works. Um, so it really

00:13:15.940 depends on what people mean when they use some of these terms. And I think that gets lost a lot in the

00:13:21.380 way that people are currently communicating. Yeah. It's interesting because what I see a lot of people

00:13:27.180 do is redefine words and they're not so blatantly obvious about it. They do a different, like for

00:13:34.080 example, they'll, they'll call Donald Trump Hitler. It's like, well, you're, you're, you're attempting

00:13:40.280 to redefine not only Donald Trump, but who Hitler was. And also you're undermining every horrible

00:13:48.960 atrocity that Hitler committed against millions and millions of people. And what you're doing is

00:13:56.120 redefining it. And you're actually making that word less powerful because you're giving it this broad

00:14:01.700 definition that is never intended to be. It's what I call a label inflation. I didn't make up the term,

00:14:08.180 but, uh, I think that's the perfect way to put it. If you go around and, you know, use terms and

00:14:13.060 redefine terms to, you know, sort of benefit you in the short term or to, you know, uh, insult somebody

00:14:23.700 or to try to make them out to be worse than they are or whatever, then that may be expedient in the

00:14:28.460 short term. But what happens to the longterm is it does devalue those words and it can be offensive

00:14:33.840 to lots of people involved, like not just, not just the person who's the target of it, but, you know,

00:14:40.220 using your example there, if someone did have grandparents or ancestors who were directly impacted

00:14:47.160 by Hitler, or even just people who fought in the world war or anything like that, who were up against

00:14:53.320 legitimate Nazis and, you know, white supremacists and these things, then to start using these labels

00:15:00.600 when they're not actually applicable and just throwing them around and bandying them around all

00:15:05.280 the time. Then, like you said, they lose their power. It dilutes the power of the words and people

00:15:11.400 stop taking it seriously. You also run out of ways to delineate different people. So if you go around

00:15:18.800 and you say, okay, well, everybody, you know, let's take something that I have legitimately seen a lot

00:15:24.460 of people say, right? Some people will come out and they'll, they'll even go on the news or they'll go

00:15:28.780 on social media and they'll say, uh, everybody who voted for a Donald Trump is racist. Okay.

00:15:36.980 Everybody who voted for Brexit is racist. Okay. You're talking about

00:15:43.600 potentially half the population. Right. Right. Yeah. 50% of the population. Sure.

00:15:51.140 Yeah. Maybe they didn't all vote, but you, it wouldn't, it would be fair to say in most countries,

00:15:56.960 if you take the two main political parties, you're going to get a rough 50, 50% split of support.

00:16:02.420 Some people don't really care. Some people aren't interested. Some people aren't partisan. Sure. But you

00:16:06.140 could say, you know, maybe, maybe 40%, 40%. Uh, so if you're going to say that, then that is just a

00:16:14.160 complete net. Now, if you do have someone who is a legitimate, uh, neo-Nazi or someone who's part of

00:16:21.180 the KKK and is trying to bring what, what label do you now give to that person? You see what I mean?

00:16:26.820 You've already called all, you've already called it said, all these people are racist and all these

00:16:30.900 people are supporting white supremacy and this and that. And this is the new KKK. The MAGA hat is the new

00:16:35.860 KKK hood, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. Again, in the short term, that makes someone feel good. 0.59

00:16:41.740 It makes them feel expedient because they feel like they're good and I'm fighting against this evil

00:16:45.120 and I can just stick this label on people and then I don't need to deal with their ideas.

00:16:49.260 But in the longterm, that's really, really, really has a lot of negative repercussions as far as I'm

00:16:55.080 concerned. And, um, you know, and it also leads to reactionary movements as well, which is something I

00:17:01.740 think a lot of people don't see the potential danger and threat. And that's something that you see

00:17:06.600 more so actually in Europe where you're starting to get some legitimate sort of actual, more far

00:17:15.900 right, slightly, or sometimes explicitly ethno nationalistic groups and individuals gaining a

00:17:23.540 a little bit more sort of steam and empathy and stuff because people aren't, it's almost like

00:17:31.700 you're, you're, you're pushing so many people in the wrong direction by not legitimately addressing

00:17:39.180 their concerns or their arguments or just listening to them or treating people kindly, whether or not

00:17:43.700 you agree or disagree or whatever, that doesn't matter. But when you start throwing around all these

00:17:48.660 terms and that happens, and like I said, then you get this label inflation factor where it's like,

00:17:52.860 okay, well you called all the people over here, far right already. So what do you now call actual

00:17:58.960 far right groups? It's already at that stage where, really far, right. Extreme far, right. And then we

00:18:03.980 get the, the antifas and everything else. Yeah. It's, it's, this is, this is the crazy thing,

00:18:09.760 you know? Um, and so that's why I, you know, on one hand, it's kind of funny when people get totally

00:18:17.300 ridiculous and start throwing these terms around when they're not warranted and trying to label

00:18:21.200 black people and Jewish people and Latino people and trying to label them as Nazis or white supremacists,

00:18:27.800 there's a subtle, not subtle, right? There's, there's an irony in there, which is hilarious

00:18:32.880 on one hand, but on the other side, I do believe that stuff has genuine repercussions, which is why

00:18:40.160 it's something that I try to encourage people not to do and not just to, yeah, it's easy to compare

00:18:48.040 anything to Hitler to make it sound, Oh, just Hitler. Just, it's lazy, right? Just, it is just, 0.90

00:18:54.380 it's lazy, uh, maybe even intellectually dishonest. Right. But I think ultimately people,

00:18:59.860 there's a lot of reasons for this. I'd like to unpackage this, but I think ultimately one of them

00:19:04.720 is that people want to win, right? And they think that if I can throw this individual under the bus or

00:19:10.220 make him or her look like a fool, uh, then I win through some, uh, misguided perceived moral

00:19:17.080 superiority, right? Because I am not that individual. Therefore I am superior and I win compared to

00:19:22.580 somebody else. Exactly. Exactly. And I think there's always the temptation to do that, especially when

00:19:29.080 you have an intellectual or ideological opponent that could happen along political lines. It could

00:19:35.420 happen along religious lines, whatever. There's always that temptation to infer malice or evil

00:19:42.560 or stupidity towards the other person. Right. Okay. The only reason you believe that is because

00:19:47.840 you're such and such evil insert, insert evil thing. Right. Um, and then that means you don't need to

00:19:55.160 deal with the actual argument, but it doesn't help. It just doesn't help anything, you know, in the,

00:20:02.280 in the short term, it might be a, okay, cool. You kind of got away with it this time or that time.

00:20:07.220 But like I said, I just think longterm, it's just, people need to kind of grow up around this thing,

00:20:12.080 especially when it is people who are in the media or journalists or politicians themselves.

00:20:18.060 When I start seeing them sort of stooping to this ground of calling each other Nazis on Twitter,

00:20:23.600 and these are supposed to be, you know, 40, 50, 60, some of the, sometimes people in their sixties and

00:20:29.780 seventies. Um, and you know, the, the president himself is not, um, right. He's not immune to,

00:20:36.120 to, to that criticism. Right. Of course. Um, and yeah, you know, sometimes it can be fun. It can be

00:20:40.940 entertaining, but I just think there's a certain level where you do want to be like, okay, like,

00:20:46.920 can we bring some adults back into the room? And can we actually just talk about this stuff properly

00:20:51.880 and not try to demonize each other and actually work out? Look, cause this is the thing with politics

00:20:57.340 all the time. I don't know. You know, we've got the UK general election tomorrow. Oh, is that right?

00:21:01.340 Okay. Yeah. Tomorrow. Yeah. So everything is amping up and the mudslinging is just so hype right now.

00:21:08.900 And every, this party is, you know, every, everyone's calling everyone racist and everyone's

00:21:13.660 calling everyone anti-Semitic and xenophobic and all these other, um, unpleasant terms. And I'm just like,

00:21:20.820 look, we all need to get on with each other. People have their different views. People have their

00:21:26.540 different ideas when it comes to politics. You know, sometimes you sleep on your left.

00:21:29.660 Sometimes you sleep on your right. You're not always going to get your way. The vote's not

00:21:32.820 always going to go the way you want it to. And you're always going to have, like I said,

00:21:36.320 half the population is always going to be a little bit disappointed regardless of the outcome.

00:21:40.120 Sure. Sure. So, but ultimately. I actually heard somebody say that the goal of politics is to get

00:21:44.940 half of the population to hate you. So that's actually pretty interesting. Like, I guess,

00:21:49.320 I guess that's one way to do it. It's just like this polarizing, right? Just get people polarized

00:21:52.780 and you'll win. Yeah. Yeah. And this is, this is the shame. I think it's, um, like I said,

00:21:58.100 I think it can be a little bit of tribalism can be fun, right? If you're talking about sports games

00:22:05.160 and, you know, one person, this, these people like this team, these people like that team. And

00:22:09.940 there's, there's that, uh, you know, competition and maybe a little bit of trash talk or whatever,

00:22:14.280 but as long as it stays contained and people remain civil and people don't get violent or whatever,

00:22:20.000 then it's totally fine. I mean, it's the same. It's like in the UK, this is not a big, as big

00:22:25.240 a problem now as it used to be. But, um, in the UK and throughout Europe, especially if you go back

00:22:31.400 a couple of decades ago, they had this big problem with a football hooliganism, uh, what would be

00:22:36.160 considered soccer to your audience, right? Where people would literally get beaten up. People got

00:22:41.460 killed. You'd have fights just between fans of different teams. Over, over grown adults kicking

00:22:48.900 a round ball into a, into a net. It's, it's insane. Can you, can you imagine, can you imagine

00:22:54.760 beating someone with a bat because they support a different team to you, right? This is the thing,

00:23:02.120 right? And, and it's so crazy. So it's like, I believe all human beings, I do think this is just

00:23:06.860 in our nature. We all have this tribal component. No doubt. Yep. We all have, you know, we feel

00:23:13.060 connected to, to different tribes that can be online tribes. It can be offline tribes. It could be

00:23:17.640 family tribes. It can be split along a whole bunch of different ways. Um, and I don't think

00:23:24.560 there's any way to get rid of that. And, and I think it has benefits as well. Right? So I think

00:23:29.900 the key thing is, is just making sure that that manifests in a healthy way and in a way that you

00:23:37.760 make the tribe actually as big and as inclusive as you can. So if you've got a country like America,

00:23:45.500 right, biggest country in the entire Western world, 350 or so million people. Okay. So if you

00:23:52.300 can unite people under the banner of, okay, people look different, people have different experiences,

00:23:58.660 people may even speak different languages, originally come from different places, but all

00:24:01.920 these people are Americans. Okay. And if you can get everyone on that page, then you've always got a

00:24:09.420 sort of higher group level that you can, that you can go up to, right? It's like, you know,

00:24:14.900 you know, on your computer, you got this sort of directory files with the trees and the folders and

00:24:19.300 different things, but you can always click up and you can go up into that one. So it's like, okay,

00:24:23.320 so here you might be split Republicans and Democrats. And even within those groups, you're split like this

00:24:28.400 and like that. And, you know, you could keep going down to that all the way to the individual,

00:24:32.200 but if you kind of keep clicking up, it's like, okay, well, we're all Americans. So let's, let's

00:24:37.720 keep that in mind. Right. Same thing here in the UK, you've got all this stuff going on. Tories,

00:24:42.280 labor, Tories, labor, Boris, Corbyn, dah, dah, dah. But it's like, look, you know, leave, remain,

00:24:46.960 Brexit, no Brexit. Ultimately you're all British. Okay. Like you're all British citizens. Right. Beyond 0.82

00:24:53.600 that, you're all people. Right. Right. Well, and I think, I think most people want the same things.

00:24:59.020 You know, you talked earlier about opponents, you know, it feels good to, to beat a quote unquote

00:25:03.820 opponent, you know, unless somebody's directly threatening your life or your wellbeing or your

00:25:08.640 way of life. I mean, we don't really have opponents because ultimately I think most people

00:25:14.300 want the same thing. We want to, we want some freedom. We want some Liberty. We want some money

00:25:18.700 in the bank account. We want to have some experiences. We probably want some romance in our

00:25:22.720 life. Uh, we want to be fit. We want to be happy and fulfilled. Like we all want the same thing.

00:25:28.360 Now, the way we go about doing that might be a little bit differently, but if we realized,

00:25:32.600 Hey, we're all after the same thing here. Uh, let's, you know, work together. You have

00:25:38.180 some ideas that are good. I have some ideas that are good. Let's get to the promised land

00:25:41.540 together. I think the problem comes when people try to isolate themselves. And I think politicians

00:25:47.920 do this. They try to isolate themselves from the crowd, from the group, from the people,

00:25:52.820 uh, because they want to maintain, maintain power over those individuals as opposed to

00:25:58.800 be part of the process. Yeah. I mean, here's something that people always forget when it

00:26:04.520 comes to politicians, when it comes to the police, when it comes to any public sector employee,

00:26:10.560 they work for you. Right. Yeah. People always forget this. Right. And I think that sometimes

00:26:16.900 they need to be reminded. I think politicians, I think like once a year or something, same with

00:26:21.780 police, I think once a year, all these people need to be reminded that they work for the citizens

00:26:27.060 and the citizens pay their salaries. Right. Right. So when you've got police getting too big for their

00:26:32.860 boots and they're trying to throw people around and cuss people and, you know, point guns at people 0.90

00:26:37.020 or whatever, when it's not warranted, I think those people need a reminder. Like, wait, hang on.

00:26:41.360 You, you work for the citizens, right? You, you're not, you're not above them. Right. You're right.

00:26:47.600 It's not like you're, it's not like you're in some war and you're, you're this, you're this guy here

00:26:52.980 and you're trying to. Right. They're not the enemy. No, they're not the enemy. Your, your job is to

00:26:56.760 keep these people safe and to enforce the law. Yeah. Sometimes you may have run-ins with people who

00:27:02.400 are committing crimes or whatever, but generally, I mean, people shouldn't be, people shouldn't be

00:27:06.520 intimidated by the police. Right. If people feel intimidated by the police, that's a problem.

00:27:10.820 People shouldn't feel intimidated by politicians or think, oh gosh, like this person wants to

00:27:17.340 make my life worse or wants to tear on it. It's like, no, like your job is a publicly elected

00:27:22.720 official who is literally being paid by everybody else's tax money. You need to keep these people's

00:27:28.980 interest at heart. Can you please everybody? No, you can't. Right. Are you going to get criticism?

00:27:32.940 Are you going to get flack? Of course you will. But I just think people need to keep that sort of

00:27:37.340 power in check. And I think when you get these people who have been in these jobs and some of

00:27:43.000 these roles for decades and decades and decades, I do legitimately think that they themselves just

00:27:47.760 totally forget that they're employed by the people and the people can fire them too. Right.

00:27:54.460 Right. I think. Well, yeah, I mean, we're obviously we're, we're dealing with that,

00:27:58.200 whether it's warranted or not. I mean, we're dealing with that right now is we have these articles of

00:28:02.520 impeachment against the president that have just come out. Like, I mean, it is a reminder that

00:28:05.900 you can be fired. Again, I don't know that this is warranted in this case, but

00:28:10.660 yeah. So, I mean, term limits would definitely be something that's very interesting. I just think

00:28:15.200 there's this huge disconnect. And the longer that you're in the system, the more that you forget

00:28:19.240 that you're part of the system, not the system in and of itself. Like you are not the dictator,

00:28:26.080 if you will. And that, that becomes a problem. Yeah, exactly. I do think that was part of the appeal

00:28:31.020 of Trump over Clinton, because I just think she'd been in, she'd, she's been in it too long.

00:28:37.060 It's been in it too long, just totally detached, disconnected in that weird bubble. Don't know how

00:28:43.700 many people have scratched your back, how many backs you've scratched, all this money involved,

00:28:48.060 all that stuff, man. I just think after a while, you know, when you just get these career politicians,

00:28:52.760 then I, myself, I know personally, I'm always a little bit, uh, uh, very, well, not a little bit,

00:28:59.980 I'm very mistrustful of anyone who's just kind of been in that world for such, such a long time.

00:29:06.120 I also think that's part of the, um, appeal of someone like Andrew Yang, right?

00:29:10.040 Sure.

00:29:10.400 Because, you know, because he's not, he's lived an actual life. He was a businessman, an entrepreneur,

00:29:16.040 whatever. And then it's like, okay, cool. I'm going to take a shot at this thing. He hasn't just

00:29:19.520 been in the system for decades and decades and decades. And, you know, like all these other

00:29:24.980 people have been, um, and they've all got so much dirt on them and, you know, they're,

00:29:29.380 they've just learned to tell, tell their little politicians lies and speak, say the right words

00:29:34.740 to get votes, but then not act on it and all that stuff. And we've just seen this for decades and

00:29:39.080 decades and decades. Um, and yeah, I don't know. I've, I've always just got my, my own take on stuff,

00:29:45.360 but it's part of the big reason why I'm, I'm just, yeah. Kind of skeptical about. Yeah. Well,

00:29:53.800 I have a healthy, healthy dose of skepticism for the whole thing. I, and I, I think that's the right

00:29:59.460 attitude, you know, whether that's a career politician or somebody coming in, like we ought

00:30:03.160 to be skeptical of everybody because those people are going to dictate a lot of the course of our

00:30:08.420 lives indirectly, potentially. And, and as we've continued to see more and more directly as,

00:30:14.340 as government encroaches into our lives, like this is going to be a big part of the way that

00:30:18.780 we live our lives. So we ought to be skeptical about that. I think the problem comes in the fact

00:30:23.880 that the public just, well, a lot of times we're just lazy, right? So we're not going to take the

00:30:30.020 time to, to vet our politicians. We're not going to take the time to research. We'd rather be

00:30:35.400 entertained and be distracted with other trivial issues. And of course there's other issues that

00:30:41.360 are important. Like, how am I going to make the mortgage payment and how am I going to get my

00:30:44.760 kids through school? So much so that we're like, ah, just whatever, you know? And it's not only is

00:30:50.640 it a disconnect from politicians to us, it's a disconnect from us to politicians. And we got to

00:30:55.920 be more engaged. Like we have to be more engaged in this process. Otherwise I just don't know. We don't

00:31:02.120 know what's going to happen if we can't be engaged in the process. Yeah. I mean, it's a,

00:31:07.020 it's a tricky one. It's a tricky one because you can kind of argue that way, or you can also argue

00:31:11.900 in the, in the other direction. I mean, my, my view on politics is I kind of almost, if I don't notice

00:31:21.760 what the government is doing, I kind of feel like they're doing their job. Yeah. Right. Does that

00:31:28.320 make sense? I'm almost, I just don't really want to notice anything. Like as long as stuff keeps

00:31:33.660 ticking over and like the roads, which we're paying tax money for don't have like giant holes

00:31:38.700 in them and stuff is generally working and you can ring 999 or 911 and the police or the, or the, um,

00:31:45.680 fire department or whatever show up. As long as that's like stuff is working, then me personally,

00:31:51.420 my expectations are relatively low and humble for what I think like the government or the prime

00:31:56.280 minister or any president is supposed to be doing. And as far as, as long as that's happening,

00:32:01.480 then I'm kind of satisfied, but I guess you do have a lot of people who I think they get angry

00:32:07.640 and they get upset and they want to be activists and do all this because their expectations are way

00:32:13.160 higher actually than mine are. You see what I mean? So they'll be like, Oh, well, you know, we've got

00:32:18.360 X amount of people are earning less than this amount, or we have this many, uh, people in poverty,

00:32:26.100 or we have this or that. And a lot of that stuff is just, some of it isn't just natural. Some of it

00:32:32.540 is just basic economic factors, the Pareto principle, some of the, just the results of having a somewhat

00:32:38.140 free market economy and whatever, you're not going to get any quality of outcome because you don't

00:32:42.780 have any equality of inputs. Sure. So everybody, like I said before, everybody is different.

00:32:48.000 People have different levels of intelligence. Not everybody works as hard as each other.

00:32:51.180 Some people work in high paying field. Some people work in low paying. There's infinite factors

00:32:56.020 that go into equality or inequality on any level, right? There are people who are,

00:33:01.600 you know, I'm five foot 11. There's people who are four foot two. There's people who are seven foot

00:33:05.420 three, right? Not because of some sort of evil of capitalism, but just because like, that's just how

00:33:14.300 it is. It's the patriarchy, man. It's the patriarchy.

00:33:16.080 Some people are really, really smart. Some people are really, really dumb. Like that,

00:33:20.860 that, that kind of sucks, but it's just like, yo, that's, that's just how it is. And no politician,

00:33:28.380 no party, no policy is going to, is going to change that. And I, and I wouldn't even want them to try to,

00:33:34.820 that's the thing with me. It's like, I would, you know, there's some things it's like, yo, I don't

00:33:38.440 even want you to attempt to do this. Cause right.

00:33:41.260 Your proposed solution is going to be far worse than the existing problem.

00:33:46.680 Right. The fallout is significantly worse than the issue that it began to, to try to solve.

00:33:51.360 Exactly. Exactly. So when it comes to that, that's why I'm so pro personal responsibility.

00:33:57.860 Cause I'm just like, look, if you have your stuff in order, regardless of who wins the election

00:34:03.300 tomorrow, you'll be okay. Right.

00:34:05.920 U S election coming up in 2020, I don't know which way it's going to go. I, I, I have my, um,

00:34:12.140 opinions and my personal predictions, but if you have your life in order or you're working to get

00:34:18.880 your life in order, regardless of who wins, you'll be fine. You see what I mean? If you handle your

00:34:24.980 own business, you will be fine. Right. It would take a politician doing something and, you know,

00:34:31.660 and this, this can and does happen, but they need to do something like really radical and crazy

00:34:38.160 to have like, uh, either a significant positive or a significant negative impact on your life.

00:34:45.080 And there's so many checks and balances, especially in a place like the USA, which kind of makes that

00:34:50.260 really rare. You know, when was the, when was the last time, you know, when was the last time, um,

00:34:55.400 uh, a president or a political party pulled, pulled you or anybody else out of poverty.

00:35:04.120 Yeah. Right. No. Yeah. It doesn't happen.

00:35:06.280 No. People can be pulled out of poverty by their own, by their own efforts and their own

00:35:10.540 entrepreneurship and their own hard work that pulls people out of poverty. You're not going to

00:35:14.900 just create some snap your magic fingers and create some, I don't know what that's going to magically

00:35:22.640 fix stuff that is, you know, natural and economic that that's the thing of what you can, you can

00:35:29.620 create conditions to allow that to flourish, but you know what you've got some, dude, there's people

00:35:33.760 in society who don't want to work. Oh, no doubt. Right. That don't want to exert themselves. Yeah.

00:35:38.780 You've got people, I don't know, it might be a small person, it might be 2%, 3% of the population.

00:35:43.380 Just, they don't care. Zero ambition. Sure. They don't want to work. They just want to sit down and

00:35:48.520 they want to drink alcohol and they want to, they're not interested. So you, it's hard to do

00:35:55.920 anything with that. You've also got people who are just crazy, super hyper ambitious, hyper

00:36:01.660 intelligent, hyper entrepreneurial, who are just going to go off and create these a hundred million

00:36:06.840 billion dollar enterprises or whatever. And that's going to happen while that's also happening on the

00:36:11.940 other side. So you, you can't without huge amounts of actual tyranny, you're not going to create,

00:36:20.220 you're not going to fix or resolve this imbalance. Of course, most people are somewhere more in the

00:36:25.440 middle. Men, let me hit the pause button on this discussion real quick. By now, I'm sure that you've

00:36:30.880 heard all about the iron council. If you're new, maybe you haven't. Many of you have banded with us.

00:36:35.440 Many of you, well, frankly, you're not interested at all and that's fine. And many of you are on the

00:36:40.360 fence about joining. And if you are on the fence, I get it. I understand when I started down this path

00:36:45.540 to, to really fix myself, it was hard for me to acknowledge that having a little help and

00:36:51.240 instruction and direction on the path was, was worthwhile. I thought that I could figure it out

00:36:56.020 all on my own and maybe I could, but at what expense time and effort? And that's what it would

00:37:02.040 have cost me. But by banding with and learning from men who were further down the path than I was,

00:37:06.520 I was able to accelerate the learning process and therefore the results. I became a more connected

00:37:12.440 husband, a more engaged father, a more successful businessman, and frankly, just more fulfilled in

00:37:17.920 my life. And if that's what you're looking for, you're looking to do the same in your life,

00:37:22.120 then band with us, the 500 men who are on the same path and know how to help you get from here,

00:37:29.420 where you currently are to there, wherever that is for you. Make sure you visit order of man.com

00:37:34.600 slash iron council. You can learn a little bit more and lock in your spot with a 500 plus men

00:37:39.380 again, order of man.com slash iron council. Uh, do that after the conversation for now,

00:37:44.840 we'll finish it up with Zuby. But, um, well, and even, even if you did have that level of tyranny

00:37:50.440 that you, you suggest, it's like, that's not going to solve the problem either. Like that's not going

00:37:53.840 to make matters worse. It's going to pull us backwards. Cause I think about, you know, these,

00:37:57.480 these highly ambitious, motivated individuals, like you're talking about, as they elevate

00:38:04.000 themselves, they're going to create businesses and hire people and create new technologies that

00:38:10.000 weren't available before. You know, I was in, I was in your neck of the woods, uh, about a month ago,

00:38:14.120 I was in, in London, you know, when I saw castles and Westminster Abbey, that's, you know, over a thousand

00:38:20.780 years old. And these are where Kings are living. I'm like, man, people in poverty are living better 0.89

00:38:25.980 than Kings were a thousand years ago. So as we take the throttle off and allow these individuals 0.92

00:38:33.220 to excel at the highest level, everybody's lifted up. Even those people that two or 3% that you

00:38:38.640 mentioned who are lazy and don't want to work and just kind of want to waste away their days.

00:38:43.380 They're lifted up as well, just by default. Yeah, sure. Sure. And you know, what was the point I was

00:38:49.400 about to make there? Uh, I lost it. I lost it. I had, I had something I was just about to say

00:38:55.000 there, but I'm sure, I'm sure we'll come back to it. It just lit my brain. Yeah. Well, I think the

00:38:59.320 problem comes when people perceive again, the two to 3% you're talking about as some sort, or even

00:39:06.580 themselves as some sort of victim of what somebody has done to them. And there may be some victim

00:39:15.080 scenarios, but the victim hood mentality isn't, is an issue. It's, it's a problem, uh, because you may

00:39:23.280 have been biologically and genetically predisposed to be successful or maybe to be a little bit more

00:39:29.500 lazy, but that doesn't make you a victim of what somebody else has done to you. No, no. It's

00:39:35.060 because a lot of people will think that a lot of things in the world, including money are zero sum.

00:39:40.680 Hmm. Right. I think, I think the world would be a lot better if people had to study economics,

00:39:46.620 like a lot of real, honestly, I think a lot of problems stem from people just not understanding

00:39:51.140 basic economics, whether you're talking about, um, a minimum wage and, and sort of salaries,

00:39:58.100 whether you're talking about house prices, whether you're just talking about how, how money is made.

00:40:03.260 And the fact that one person having a lot of money doesn't mean that someone else that they're

00:40:08.720 hoarding it away from people that money and value are actually constantly being created. And the total

00:40:14.540 amount of wealth is constantly increasing. And there's far more wealth across the board. And, uh,

00:40:20.500 on average amongst individuals now, than there was 30 years ago or 50 years ago, or a hundred years

00:40:25.300 ago. And people don't understand these basic concepts. So that's why you get, for example,

00:40:29.560 at the moment, it's really popular and trendy to do the billionaire bashing. Right. Right.

00:40:35.200 Everyone, everyone's gunning for the billionaires right now. Like these horrible human beings,

00:40:39.980 these, these, these 20 guys have more money than 50% of the population or whatever the statistic is

00:40:46.820 or whatever. And people make it out like that other 50% would be better off if those people

00:40:54.780 didn't exist or if they didn't have their money and they weren't inverted commas hoarding it or

00:40:59.780 whatever. Sure. That whole concept just shows a complete lack of understanding, just basic

00:41:05.760 understanding of how economics works, how business works, how financial systems work, all of that stuff,

00:41:11.800 which I myself, I'm not even an expert on, but I've at least, I know, I know the basics. I've got

00:41:17.480 the basic understanding to know that guys like Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg and, uh, Bill Gates and

00:41:25.200 whatever, that the amount of wealth that they've created, not just for themselves, but the way that

00:41:30.520 they've improved and bettered the world. We're literally talking on Skype right now. Okay. Microsoft

00:41:35.940 product. I'm on a windows laptop, right? People have like, you know, everyone shops on Amazon.

00:41:42.320 People are using all these things, which have made people's lives better, made it cheaper to do their

00:41:47.500 business, made it cheaper to buy products and do all the things they want. These companies employ

00:41:52.220 hundreds of thousands to millions of people. They've created wealth for all these people and all these

00:41:57.580 families and whatever, but people just want to turn their focus on, Oh, but the guy at the very top who

00:42:02.240 created the whole thing has way more money than I do. And I'm like, why do you care? That's just pure

00:42:07.520 envy. Right. Why do, why do I care that? Dude, if someone has $60 billion, cool. I'm like, okay,

00:42:16.320 like, why, why do I care? Like the, the wealth gap between me and, or between any of us in these guys,

00:42:21.600 like that's, uh, I don't even know what the factor is, right? That's like a millions of percent,

00:42:27.780 right. So you have a million times more money than I do. Right. But, but you know what? I'm

00:42:32.840 all right. So it's all good. Yeah. I'm all good. Like why, why do I care if you've got it? If you've

00:42:39.400 got a car that works and you've got, you know, uh, you've got stuff like, okay, I can understand

00:42:45.620 some resentment or envy coming from people who legitimately may not have anything just on like

00:42:51.160 a human emotional psychological level. Um, but when you've got people who are like, you're already

00:42:58.100 situated and you're already doing better than 95% of the world, uh, which you're probably doing just

00:43:04.640 by the dint of living in the UK or living in the USA. Um, then, you know, it's, uh, did you know that

00:43:12.860 if you earn, wait, what's the number? It's something like if you earn, I think more than $31,000 a year,

00:43:21.160 you're in the global 1%. Isn't that wild? In terms of income. Yeah. It's, it's amazing. 0.68

00:43:26.940 You know, it's interesting. I heard this, um, I heard about this study that, that was done and

00:43:33.140 they interviewed these people and they said, all right, look, you can make, and I'm using

00:43:38.820 arbitrary numbers here, but you can make a hundred thousand dollars a year, but everybody around you,

00:43:45.020 your neighborhood, the people in your neighborhood are going to be, maybe be making $110,000 a year.

00:43:49.320 Or you can make $90,000 a year. So you'll make $10,000 less, but everybody around you will be

00:43:57.260 making $85,000 a year. And the majority of respondents chose to make less money simply

00:44:05.180 because they were making more than their neighbors. Like this is, this is crazy. This is crazy stuff that

00:44:12.700 people do. It's, it's gotta be hardwired into a somehow and it becomes an enemy. It's crazy to me.

00:44:19.100 Do you know, I think, I think I know why this is, I have a theory. I have a theory on this.

00:44:23.640 And my theory is, uh, so if I'm not an evolutionary biologist nor psychologist,

00:44:28.280 but if I'm going to take that sort of lens, I think it's because for the majority of humanity

00:44:36.000 and in most of the sort of natural world and the animal world, stuff is generally more zero sum.

00:44:45.240 Scarce.

00:44:46.060 Yes. Yeah. The stuff is normally scarce and zero sum. So in, in the past, or, you know, if you watch

00:44:52.800 these animal documentaries or whatever, it's like, okay, if this leopard has this territory,

00:44:57.440 that means that another leopard can't have, you know, that, that sort of depriving another leopard

00:45:06.060 or another animal of this particular territory. Right. So I think, I think we're still wired to

00:45:11.600 think that everything is scarce. I think that scarcity mindset is literally hardwired in most

00:45:17.840 human beings. So the idea that, okay, if that guy, if that guy has 10 apples and I have three,

00:45:24.580 that must mean that he's depriving me of apples. You see what I mean? Right. Right. I think it's

00:45:31.120 still wired that way. Cause if you imagine, okay, imagine you had a tribe, a tribe of 30 people.

00:45:36.680 Okay. And, um, someone that you, you, you, you cook a meal. Okay. And, or you have a loaf of bread.

00:45:44.180 Let me make it simple. You have, you have a loaf of bread. Okay. And you need to share this loaf of

00:45:48.380 bread amongst all the people. If someone comes and eats half of it, like you're angry, right?

00:45:56.160 Sure. Of course. Cause you, cause you, cause they've deprived the rest of the people of the rest of it.

00:46:04.220 So I think a lot of people think of money, especially in that same way. So they think,

00:46:12.020 Oh, well, if this guy has as much as 50% of the population, that must mean they think of it like

00:46:20.420 bread, right? They think, Oh, that must mean he has taken our share. So that's why you hear people

00:46:26.680 saying things like fair share, right? Oh, that's not, that's not their fair share or whatever. And I'm

00:46:30.420 like, you're not talking about a finite limited resource. You're talking about something that

00:46:36.360 is, is created and is always is growing and is expanding. We won't get into the whole banking

00:46:41.080 system. That's a whole nother thing. But, but you know, the, the GDP is constantly increasing.

00:46:46.260 Yes, of course. It's constantly increasing. Um, one person being a billionaire doesn't mean you can't

00:46:51.760 also become a billionaire or whatever. In fact, it's probably easier because one person did it.

00:46:57.000 I like your apple scenario. You talk about the guy who has 10 and the guy who has three and the guy

00:47:01.200 who has three says, well, that guy has 10. So what did he do to get those 10 at my expense?

00:47:06.220 What he doesn't realize is the guy who has 10 figured out a new way to cross pollinate trees or

00:47:13.180 to grow it genetically so that the apple tree bears 120% more fruit than it did before, right? That's

00:47:20.880 what they're not taking into consideration. And that's what it is when we talk about Bezos and we

00:47:25.200 talk about Zuckerberg is these guys figured out a way to leverage technology in order to create a

00:47:31.760 bigger pie. You take those people out of the world. That's negatively going to impact everybody. Look,

00:47:38.520 if we didn't have Amazon, like there was a time where we didn't have Amazon. Yeah. There was a time

00:47:44.280 when we didn't have Facebook. Yeah. I was talking to my wife the other day because we were watching

00:47:47.500 an old show and somebody was punching away at one of these old computers. And I said, look at that

00:47:50.920 thing. And she's like, did you ever use that? I said, yeah. When I was like in eighth grade,

00:47:54.460 I used a computer. Like that's not that long ago. Oh no, not at all, man. Not at all, dude.

00:47:59.700 I mean, it's crazy to think how far we've come. Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, you're in your thirties,

00:48:04.840 I presume? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I think, you know, we, we've both lived through this

00:48:10.200 interesting period where actually you've seen huge shifts in technology. Definitely. So if you talk to

00:48:17.880 teenagers now, or even people in their early twenties, they don't remember the pre-internet

00:48:21.580 world. Some of them don't even remember the pre-social media world. If you talk to people

00:48:25.820 who are kind of in their, you know, 30 plus kind of between 30 and 50, they've seen, or, you know,

00:48:32.140 I don't mean 30 and 50, 30 plus generally they've seen all of these shifts. Right. So I remember

00:48:39.100 like I'm, I'm, I'm in my early thirties and I remember when you couldn't render a circle on a

00:48:46.040 computer screen, right? They didn't have the pixels to render a circle. Yeah. It was just

00:48:50.720 blocks. It was like squares. Maybe at the best you get like a hexagon or an octagon. And that would

00:48:55.020 be the closest you could get to a circle. Right. So you've gone from that and the old, um, you

00:49:00.620 remember the Atari? Yeah. Atari computers. I've still got one at home, man. Oh, awesome, man. So yeah,

00:49:06.480 you've gone from that to, uh, Xbox one and PS4 and PC gaming where you can now see like the pores on

00:49:15.560 people's faces and sweat, you know, you're playing a sports game. You can see the sweat dripping down

00:49:20.460 people. That's, that's just been in like 30 years. That's crazy. That's not, that's like a third of a

00:49:27.880 lifetime. Yeah. And I just think that that is insane. You remember the, um, I remember when people

00:49:33.780 didn't have, like when people first started getting email addresses and people, oh, what's the point of

00:49:37.800 email? I don't think this thing's going to take off or whatever. Yeah. I did that with Facebook.

00:49:41.540 I had a buddy who was telling me about Facebook and I'm like, that's stupid. You know, in fact,

00:49:45.160 I remember a story. So our, uh, uh, an experience I had, I was in Iraq, this was in 2005 and I was in

00:49:52.580 our, in our office building there in Iraq. And, uh, one of our captains was punching away at the

00:49:59.200 computer and I'm like, you know, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm writing my blog. And I'm like,

00:50:03.180 what the hell's a blog? And he's like, oh, you just like write your experiences and share your

00:50:07.440 stories. I'm like, that's stupid. Nobody cares about what you're doing. And like, here I am

00:50:12.220 doing the exact same thing in a little different format, you know, 10 years, 15 years later. Um,

00:50:17.360 yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty wild how far we've come and it's amazing too. It's amazing.

00:50:21.580 Dude. It's incredible. Mobile phones. People forget, dude, you know, the very first iPhone came out

00:50:26.880 only 13 years ago. Is that right? 2006, I think. Yeah. The very first iPhone was 2006. Now everybody

00:50:36.220 has some form of smartphone and some level of addiction to it. Right. Like that, that wasn't

00:50:44.400 even a thing. I mean, you went from, I remember when mobile phones period weren't a thing. I remember my

00:50:50.380 first sister was the first person in our family to get one. Yeah. Maybe that was like, Hmm, it'd be

00:50:55.740 like 21, 22 years ago or so. Yeah. And I think I got one when I, in, in maybe like 99 or two,

00:51:04.020 like 2000, I think is when I got my first mobile phone. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it crazy that 2000 is 20

00:51:09.060 years ago? Yeah. That, that's what's wild. I'm like, man, I can't like, how is it that,

00:51:13.560 how is it that I graduated high school 20 years ago? He goes so fast. Yeah. But so yeah, man,

00:51:20.220 the world is, the world is fascinating and it's, uh, I don't know if you do this, but I'm, I'm so

00:51:25.500 intrigued to just think of what the future is going to be like. And sometimes I also wonder

00:51:32.300 how far along are we? I mean, we could still be really, really primitive in the grand scheme of

00:51:36.280 things. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, yeah. So depending on how long. Are you generally optimistic?

00:51:41.080 Are you pessimistic? Like, like generally speaking, where would you fall on that scale

00:51:45.940 about where we're going as a society? Are you talking sort of modern Western society or

00:51:51.860 yes? Yeah. Well, uh, maybe both, maybe both. Okay. Modern Western society. I think I am,

00:52:01.340 I am optimistic technologically. I'm somewhat pessimistic morally and spiritually. Not

00:52:14.120 totally. Not totally. I think there's certain things that have gotten way, way, way better.

00:52:18.360 We live in far less bigoted, you know, far less racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever times

00:52:24.080 than decades ago. No question. Um, but the way certain things I'm seeing going now, I do,

00:52:31.520 I hope it's just like a phase and people look back and are like, Ooh, what was going on in sort of

00:52:37.380 between, what would you, what'd you be referring to? Like what pornography, drug abuse, uh, sexualization

00:52:44.820 of everything? Like what is it that you're referring to? All the above the breakdown of family,

00:52:49.980 the breakdown of divorces, the whole, um, the falling back into identity politics and people

00:52:59.020 starting to look at each other again, based on their race and their sex, rather than the content

00:53:03.760 of their character. Like it was almost like you were almost there. And then it got started getting

00:53:07.860 worse again. I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned about, um, some of this, uh, you know,

00:53:13.220 gender ideology stuff and people, uh, putting their children on hormones and doing all, all that, 0.67

00:53:22.380 that whole world of stuff concerns me, the sexualization of children and seeing some of 0.99

00:53:28.200 the stuff that they're starting to push in academia and in school curriculums and all that kind of stuff.

00:53:33.640 So when I say morally, I have some concerns, that's the sort of level that I'm, I'm speaking at.

00:53:41.500 Like I said, I do hope it's, it's just a short term phase and people are like, Oh, okay. Now I'm

00:53:46.540 like, what were we doing there? That was, yeah, it seems like that was a bad idea.

00:53:50.360 Generally throughout most of, most of societies in history that we have a way of correcting our

00:53:54.940 behavior. Sometimes it's, it's very painful. It doesn't have to be, but sometimes it is,

00:53:59.520 but generally it seems to me that we get back on course and, and continue to push forward.

00:54:04.800 Um, and, and, and people have a way of course correcting as needed.

00:54:08.240 Yeah, exactly. I think we, we might be good. Just going through an overcorrection.

00:54:11.820 Sure. So I think, you know, some of that stuff, okay, there were these issues in the past and now

00:54:16.020 it's overcorrecting and it needs to kind of get reined back in to just hang on now. Maybe, uh,

00:54:22.560 maybe some of these ideas are kind of ludicrous and don't make sense and aren't rooted in reality.

00:54:27.940 Right. Um, and that does concern me because also, and also the fact that it seems to lots of those

00:54:36.000 ideologies and even some of the political stuff, it seems to be replacing religion for a lot of

00:54:41.540 people. And I think that you're getting people moving away from thinking that we've outgrown

00:54:47.220 traditional religions and we don't need all that stuff, but that sort of is creating a vacuum

00:54:52.820 for other stuff, which I believe personally to be more insidious to kind of replace that not for

00:55:00.140 everybody, but for enough people that it causes a problem. And I think that that's,

00:55:04.880 what's causing quite a lot of problems right now. You, uh, you, you know, you know, Tanner Guzzi,

00:55:09.900 right? Do you follow him on social media? Yeah. So he had made an interesting post on Twitter the

00:55:14.340 other day and he says, you know, really people never leave religion. They just change who and

00:55:18.860 what they worship. I thought that was really interesting. And I think that's fair. That's

00:55:22.240 totally true. Yeah. Yeah. No, look, if everyone has a, there's something that everyone puts a top

00:55:27.780 value on. And for most religious people, that is simply God, right? So what's, what's the top,

00:55:33.880 what's the greatest thing out there that exists? That's the top priority. That's of most importance.

00:55:38.740 What God, simple, easy answer. If that's not someone's answer, then it might be money. It might

00:55:46.440 be sex, sex, power, right? It might be fun. It might be power. It might be, um, I don't know,

00:55:53.240 their diet. It could be some, the climate, climate change, freedom or Liberty, you know,

00:55:57.460 they, yeah, exactly. Expensive other things. Sure. Yeah. And, and, and these things do have their

00:56:01.520 excesses. So regardless of what someone personally thinks about, you know, belief in God or faith or

00:56:06.320 religion or whatever, um, I do believe there are certainly, um, there are people who can be totally

00:56:14.440 fine without, uh, any religion. I, I, I kind of feel like atheism works on an individual level.

00:56:22.300 I'm not sold on it on a large scale collective level. What do you mean by works? How, like,

00:56:28.040 how would you define, define that individually? If somebody is an atheist, what do you mean that

00:56:31.100 would work? Yeah. So what I mean is that say someone is an atheist and they live in the UK or they live

00:56:38.040 in the USA, right? Um, there's enough structure and history and rules and laws and regulations and

00:56:47.880 people who actually are religious to kind of keep everybody mostly on the same page. Sure. Okay.

00:56:56.180 Do you see what I mean? Right. Definitely. Yeah. So it's fine. So if, if you kind of got someone,

00:57:01.840 I almost view, you can almost have people who are kind of like Christian atheists by which I mean,

00:57:08.880 they are not Christians and they don't believe in, you know, Christianity and the Bible, but in terms

00:57:15.500 of what their actual morals and ethics are, they've adopted that moral principle. Exactly. They've

00:57:21.080 adopted that framework from their society and other people around them and all the history from thousands

00:57:27.840 of years that have come up through that sort of, uh, Judeo Christian route, shall we say more of a

00:57:33.160 cultural morality is where they feel that are getting that from rather than exactly God or a

00:57:37.340 higher power. Exactly. So some people, some, some, you know, I've spoken to atheists and some of them

00:57:41.580 with themselves will recognize that their values do stem originally from Christianity. Others will say,

00:57:46.740 no, they don't. This is, I've just reasoned this out myself and whatever, but I don't believe the

00:57:51.340 latter to be true because if it were, then why would your, why would their values be a lot closer

00:57:58.440 to mine? I'm exactly me being a Christian than to someone in, you know, another part of the world

00:58:04.840 or from a different culture or something like that. The only reason you could say that is because,

00:58:09.340 and this would be the argument is that morality is just somehow hardwired into us, right? As opposed

00:58:14.800 to, it's not, it's not societally constructed. It's not derived from God. It's just like morality,

00:58:18.900 like hardwired into us. I guess that's what somebody would say.

00:58:22.180 Well, history doesn't seem to show that.

00:58:24.520 Well, I, I agree. I think, I think it comes from a higher power. Yeah. I think it's directed

00:58:29.320 from God. Yeah. Well, so, so that's what I mean. I think, so I think on an individual level,

00:58:34.200 yeah, totally fine. Can atheists be moral people? Of course. Absolutely. No doubt.

00:58:37.680 People always jump to this thing. Oh, are you saying you need, I'm like, no, I'm not saying you need

00:58:40.920 religion to be moral. I'm just, you know, that's not the point that is being made here. So there,

00:58:46.980 there's that, but I question on a, on a larger scale. Okay. Let's, let's say for example,

00:58:53.760 I mean, I think, I don't know, let's just pretend all of the USA were atheists. Okay. And there's no,

00:59:03.620 there's no, there's no common thread. What does, like, again, I think now that you've already got

00:59:11.980 all the, all the history and you've already got stuff sort of set up in a certain way and it's

00:59:16.240 taken a long time to get there. I think in the short term that would kind of continue to work

00:59:21.080 and stuff wouldn't really change. However, in the longterm, I'm talking, you know, hundreds,

00:59:26.580 potentially, yeah, certain, let's say hundreds of years. What is the, what is the source

00:59:33.960 of some of the stuff that's not so, not so obvious? I don't just mean like thou shalt,

00:59:41.100 thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal. Right. I think you can, right. I think you can derive

00:59:44.700 those from a lot of places. And that seems to be the case because across the board in different

00:59:48.440 cultures, where there are exceptions, most people do seem to come reach that same conclusion,

00:59:54.820 but there's a lot of other stuff, right? Like why, why is adultery wrong?

00:59:59.380 Mm-hmm. You see what I mean? Sure. Yeah. That's a, that's a gray area for a lot of people. Yeah.

01:00:05.020 Yeah. Why would adultery be wrong? Why is lying wrong if it doesn't directly hurt somebody?

01:00:10.740 Right. So maybe lying. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So like in, in that world, I'm like,

01:00:15.680 why would lying be wrong? Why would, why would adultery be, be wrong? Why would, you know,

01:00:20.520 there's, it sort of opens a box to question a whole bunch of stuff and to, to make a whole bunch of

01:00:28.700 logically, rationally, I guess, consistent arguments that we, to, to, to warrant some

01:00:37.540 things that I think we would generally deem to be immoral in our current framework. Sure. Do you

01:00:43.620 see what I mean? It's sort of, it sort of opens that. And I think given enough time, I could see

01:00:48.300 that really, really unraveling. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm seeing it happening now. I see people making

01:00:52.980 arguments for things, which to me are just obviously immoral, right? But people are trying to,

01:00:58.240 argue them and rationalize them in certain ways. Um, I think they're basing it off of

01:01:06.300 their own personal gain. And usually in, in, from my perspective, it seems like that gain is short

01:01:11.600 lived. For example, I'm going to step out on my wife and I'm going to rationalize that or justify

01:01:15.640 that because I get to have sex with this other woman who I'm physically attracted to. Well, short

01:01:20.120 term, it's like, sweet. Sounds awesome to me. You get to, you know, you get to have sex with this

01:01:24.540 other, you know, attractive woman and, and there's excitement and some risk and some adventure in

01:01:29.580 that. Long-term, however, there's going to be some guilt. There's going to be some remorse.

01:01:35.360 There's going to be some animosity between you and your spouse. There's probably going to be some

01:01:39.120 contention between the mistress. What if she doesn't find out?

01:01:43.480 I still think wrong. Well, I think from, from your own personal guilt, right? Your own, your own guilt.

01:01:49.460 Why would you be guilty? Why would you, you didn't think it was wrong, right? If you didn't

01:01:54.520 think it was wrong, why would you feel any guilt? Uh, I think to answer your question, because, well,

01:02:01.000 I believe it's because morality isn't constructed. So, you know, you would know, even, I don't think

01:02:07.900 you'd be able to convince yourself that it wasn't wrong because it isn't constructed. It's coming from

01:02:12.920 somewhere else. I think some people do though. Like using this real example, I do legitimately think

01:02:18.660 there's people who, you know, men and women who do that and in their own world and in their own

01:02:26.040 brain, they don't, there's, there's that guilt and shame isn't even there because they've rationalized

01:02:32.500 in their own mind that there was nothing. That's, there's nothing wrong with that. No, there's

01:02:36.880 nothing, there's nothing wrong with it. So like, why would they, to feel guilt, you have to think

01:02:42.440 you've done something wrong. Yeah, that's a good point. I definitely think there'll be some trust

01:02:45.700 issues because here's what, here's my thought with that is that if you're cheating on your,

01:02:49.240 your partner, for example, then where else are you cheating in life? And the long-term implication

01:02:55.000 of that is people aren't going to trust you because they're going to find you out, right? You're

01:02:57.680 cheating business partners, you're cheating yourself, and they're going to see that and

01:03:01.560 they're going to be repelled by that long-term. This is why, uh, Jordan Peterson, I think a podcast

01:03:06.200 I was just listening to talked about, uh, con artists and the fact that they, or, or even serial

01:03:12.600 killers and people who take advantage of others, they have to drift. They have to, because they

01:03:18.780 can't isolate themselves to one place because people find them out and don't trust them. They

01:03:22.320 can't then socialize. So they have to drift that way. This is an interesting conversation for sure.

01:03:27.320 Yeah, yeah, certainly. And then here's another one. This is, this is a biggie and this is not an

01:03:31.580 argument that someone should believe in God, but this is just a real talk here, which is that I believe

01:03:39.800 that a society that does not in general as a collective is ripe for a takeover from one that

01:03:48.160 does. Hmm. Explain that. What I mean is, look, if you've got, so whether or not people, again,

01:03:56.600 whether or not people are religious or not, religion is one of the things that binds people into a tribal

01:04:01.860 identity, gives them a sense of meaning, a sense of purpose, a sense of, um, you know, collective

01:04:07.500 looking out for, for sure. Yeah. Looking out for their neighbors and everything like that. Okay.

01:04:12.280 It's an important fabric layer on top of a society. And if that is removed and people are,

01:04:20.460 as a result, far more individualistic and fragmented and everyone is almost making up

01:04:24.780 their own morals, right? People have their own, we're not all singing from the same hymn sheet

01:04:29.040 anymore. People have their own ideas of what is right and wrong. This person thinks adultery is bad,

01:04:33.300 but that group there thinks it's fine. These people think that's fine. These people think that's

01:04:37.220 okay. And people just become really atomized. Then I do think, and again, I think, I think history

01:04:44.940 does show this. If you look at some of the, some of the, you know, admittedly brutal stuff that's

01:04:49.640 happened in terms of religious expansion and takeovers and things like that is, I think a culture

01:04:56.780 that is like that and is totally atomized is potentially open to a hostile group of people

01:05:06.160 who are maybe not even hostile. Like, so, you know, it doesn't even need to be hostile, right? You

01:05:11.740 could just outbreed people or whatever. Um, yeah, but I think it, I think it opens for, I think even

01:05:17.780 from an evolutionary perspective, and I've heard some evolutionary biologists talk about this is

01:05:22.560 they think that, um, belief in religion in itself is, or the propensity for it is also an evolved

01:05:31.440 trait. So those people who, the reason most people still believe in God is because believing in God or

01:05:39.580 being open to the idea of religion actually is some, some kind of survival mechanism throughout the

01:05:48.780 thousands of years of human history. I mean, it's a code of conduct. Really, if we strip everything

01:05:54.600 else away, it's a, it's a, it's a code of the way that we live. Yeah. And, and it, and it, and it does

01:05:59.120 rally people together. And I think like, look, if you had, um, okay, let, let, let's, let's, let's have

01:06:03.720 a, let, let's, let me give an example. Say you had a, say you had two warring nations. So you have

01:06:12.600 two, say you have two nations and one of them is just atomized and has no common religion nor belief

01:06:22.900 and they're equal. And the other one does. And all other things are equal. I am putting my money in

01:06:32.300 that war on the one that shares a common religion. Right. Makes sense. There is, they have a unity,

01:06:39.180 they have a cohesiveness, they have a purpose, they have a meaning, they have a cohesiveness,

01:06:42.980 they have a reason, they have a will that will just be absent in the other group. And so that's

01:06:52.260 not like, uh, you know, I'm not trying to, this is, this isn't me trying to like cast down the line

01:06:56.360 and make some sort of doomsday prediction or whatever. But, um, I think that's just a reality

01:07:01.380 of it. And we were talking before about human beings being tribal and, you know, warring with each

01:07:07.380 other and having battles, whether that's physical or, you know, on all these different levels or

01:07:11.480 whatever. And that is a, you know, it's an, it's an ongoing real thing. I think it would be lovely

01:07:16.760 if in the world, everyone can just chill and stop fighting and we don't have any more wars and no

01:07:20.820 more violence or anything. Um, but until we reach this utopia, it is, um, it is a real thing. People

01:07:27.480 do battle over ideologies, whether that's, uh, capitalism versus communism or, uh, Christianity versus

01:07:35.360 Islam or East versus West or what, you know, not Nazism versus non-Nazism, like whatever,

01:07:44.420 whatever those lines are across, that is just something that, um, you know, it's just an

01:07:49.600 unfortunate reality of human beings. So to come back to the original question, that's what I mean

01:07:54.400 when I sort of say, I think that atheism can work on an individual level and, and does work for,

01:08:00.220 for a lot of people, not for everybody, for, for a lot of people. Um, but I have some,

01:08:05.860 a lot of doubts and concerns about this idea that cause some people have this idea that if you

01:08:13.080 removed religion, that the world would just be a better place. Sure. Yeah. And I can, I can, I can, 1.00

01:08:19.980 I can understand some of their points. Cause you know, of course, like I said, you know, wars have been

01:08:23.780 fought over it and, you know, people do fight over this and whatever, but I think that that's quite

01:08:29.440 myopic. I think that those people are thinking, okay, well it works for me and I'm a decent person,

01:08:34.660 but I think they're sort of discounting the billions and billions of people across the world

01:08:41.140 of different, different cultures and value systems and whatever, that if you pulled that rug out from

01:08:47.080 them, right. You pulled out that support system and community and belief and meaning and purpose.

01:08:53.440 Mm-hmm. I think people think, oh, well, everyone will just rationalize and believe in science and

01:08:59.000 go along with what I personally, and I'm just like, no, man, I don't think that's going to happen.

01:09:04.160 They won't. You'll just create a vacuum for either, you know, I mean, dude, what do, what do,

01:09:10.580 what do fascist dictators do when, when they, when they want to seize power? They get rid of religion.

01:09:17.700 Sure. Yeah. Right. Why, why, why? Because that's an opposing force against them as, as the, uh, the

01:09:24.220 worshiped, the idol, if you will. Dude, it's hard to, it's hard to be a good Nazi if you're also a

01:09:28.400 good Christian. Yeah. Right. You see what I mean? It's hard, hard to be a, hard to be a good communist

01:09:32.640 Stalinist if you still are clinging to the, you know, basic tenets and teachings of Jesus or what,

01:09:40.980 what Buddhism or whatever the case may be. So there is a reason why they systematically,

01:09:46.180 you know, when those people took power, why they systematically dismantled the religious

01:09:51.380 institutions and were very hostile towards the church and religious people. Uh, that's not

01:09:56.020 accidental. So, and I, it's also not accidental that if you look at a lot of the people who are

01:10:01.020 pushing like some of the most bizarre ideas in society right now, which to me are, are way more

01:10:06.000 crazy than, um, lots of things you'll, than anything you'll, you'll find in, uh, some holy books

01:10:11.060 is they're, they're also, um, it tends to be irreligious, irreligious people. Well, in the

01:10:18.740 traditional sense. Right. You see what I mean? It's hard, it's quite hard to find like, um, a

01:10:24.380 Christian or a Muslim or an Orthodox Jew or whatever, who's like hyper woke and doesn't, you know, 0.95

01:10:31.340 believes that there's infinite, believes in infinite genders and believes that men and women, you see

01:10:36.100 what I mean? Like it's sure. So, so, so someone may think, Oh, these religious people have their

01:10:40.320 crazy ideas, but it's like, well, there's a lot of crazy ideas that religion seems to prevent from,

01:10:50.880 from, from, from, Oh yeah. In, in that way. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's certainly an, it's certainly

01:10:56.800 an interesting conversation. And like I've said, this, this whole thing, this isn't, these are not

01:11:00.980 arguments, uh, sort of, these, these are not reasons that somebody should believe in God if

01:11:09.140 they don't or vice versa. Um, these aren't arguments like this isn't like a, okay, this is why you should

01:11:14.540 be a Christian or whatever. This is just sort of thinking of it on a more sort of sociological

01:11:20.600 human psychological level. Right. Some of the, some of the things to consider, yeah, things to

01:11:26.120 consider, you know, some of them might be right. Some of them might be wrong. Some of them might be

01:11:29.120 partially, partially, right. I don't know. Um, but those are just some of the ideas that are

01:11:33.660 floating around in my head in regards to that. Well, I've got to tell you, man, I love your ideas.

01:11:38.280 That's what's been, uh, it's been fun watching you. Um, it's even cooler to be able to connect

01:11:42.960 and have these types of conversations together. It's been a lot of fun. Hey, I want to ask you a

01:11:46.840 couple of questions, Zuby, as we wind down. Uh, the first one is what does it mean to be a man?

01:11:51.880 Um, adult human male is the technical definition. Uh, beyond that though. Um, I think being a man

01:12:03.840 is, I think it's about protection and provision, both for self and for others. I think that's

01:12:17.820 ultimately what makes a, a good man, shall we say, I think is the ability to, um, protect

01:12:25.500 and to, and not, not just ability, willingness and desire to both provide and protect for yourself

01:12:33.480 and for other people in the role of, you know, whether that's individually or in the role of a

01:12:40.240 husband or as a father or as a brother or a warrior, a creator, a builder, whatever it is.

01:12:46.240 Um, I think the common thread in all of those things is provision and or protection. And I think

01:12:53.880 that a good man is ready, willing, able, and even has some desire to do both of those things

01:13:02.800 as and when necessary. Man, I wholeheartedly agree. I say that, uh, being a biological male is a

01:13:10.080 prerequisite to being a man and then above and beyond that protect, provide preside. So we're very much in

01:13:15.280 alignment on that thought as well. Nice. All right, man. Well, how do we connect with you and learn

01:13:18.560 more about what you're doing? Absolutely. So my website is Zuby music.com. Um, I've got a whole

01:13:24.260 bunch of stuff out there. So of course I'm a, I'm a musician. I've got, uh, eight albums and EPs out

01:13:30.180 there, which are available on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you listen. I'm on all social media

01:13:35.960 channels at Zuby music. That is Z-U-B-Y music. If you want to check out my book, strong advice, 0.97

01:13:42.120 that's my fitness book or any of my merchandise or music, you can get those at team Zuby.com,

01:13:47.460 T-E-A-M-Z-U-B-Y.com. Right on. We'll sync it all up. We didn't even talk, we didn't talk about

01:13:53.000 music. We didn't talk about strength and condition. We've got so much more to talk about, man. And I'm

01:13:57.240 sure we'll do a round two at some point. Hey, I got to tell you, I appreciate you. I like your

01:14:01.660 thoughts. Um, I like that you're willing to say what needs to be said, or at least what's on your

01:14:05.960 mind. That's refreshing and, uh, really appreciate the conversation today. All good, man. I appreciate it.

01:14:12.120 Gents. There you go. My conversation with Zuby. I hope you enjoyed it a little bit different.

01:14:15.880 Like I said, than some of the podcasts that we've done in the past, but man, what a worthwhile

01:14:19.700 conversation, something that's very, very important, uh, to have that discussion. And maybe you agreed

01:14:25.060 with everything that we talked about. And maybe you agree with nothing more likely you agree with

01:14:29.020 some of, and don't agree with others, but we'd love to finish up the conversation. That's what this

01:14:33.380 podcast was all about. Having these critical, critical discussions and doing them intelligently

01:14:37.720 using reasoning and logic and rationale and history and everything else that goes into helping us make

01:14:44.560 informed decisions and moving us down the path that, uh, will serve us well. And again, humanity

01:14:49.500 well, uh, connect with me on Twitter at Ryan Mickler, as well as Zuby Zuby music. I believe he did

01:14:55.900 mention what those links were just a minute ago. Zuby music, uh, on Twitter and, uh, see what this guy's

01:15:01.700 all about. I think you're going to like him as much as I do. Uh, outside of that, please leave a rating

01:15:06.260 and review. And you know what? Just share this show just right now. There's a little share button

01:15:09.780 wherever you're listening to podcasts, just share, send a text to somebody, uh, blast it on Twitter,

01:15:15.100 blast it on Instagram, put it out to the world because more men need to hear this message of 0.90

01:15:20.600 reclaiming, restoring masculinity. And that's exactly what we're doing here. We are taking masculinity

01:15:25.560 back and putting it in its rightful place. So I'm glad that you're here. I'm glad that you're tuned

01:15:31.100 in. Could not do it without you. This is a mission. This is a movement. Therefore we need as many men

01:15:35.280 in the battle. And, uh, I'm honored to be standing shoulder to shoulder with you in that.

01:15:38.980 All right, guys, we'll let you go for, uh, for the day. We'll be back tomorrow for Kip and I's

01:15:43.820 ask me anything, but until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:15:49.860 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:15:54.380 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 24, 2019

The Dangers of Political Correctness, Cancel Culture, and "Wokeness" ｜ ZUBY

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Order of Man - December 24, 2019

The Dangers of Political Correctness, Cancel Culture, and &#x22;Wokeness&#x22; ｜ ZUBY

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Dangers of Political Correctness, Cancel Culture, and "Wokeness" ｜ ZUBY