Order of Man - The Halo Effect, Putting Your Father on a Pedestal, & Developing Empathy as a Dad

00:00:00.260 That's such a good day when you realize your dad isn't a superhero.

00:00:03.960 Most people would say that's a bad day.

00:00:06.060 No, it isn't.

00:00:07.020 It means you can actually have a real relationship with your dad now.

00:00:09.600 Because you could never have fully a real relationship when he was Superman to you.

00:00:14.360 Because it was always distorted through these rose-colored glasses.

00:00:17.980 It would be really cool to have a father-son relationship as two adults where you're not idolizing him.

00:00:25.680 And you can see his humanity.

00:00:27.480 You're a man of action.

00:00:30.660 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:32.120 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:34.820 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:38.500 Every time.

00:00:39.560 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:41.840 Rugged.

00:00:42.600 Resilient.

00:00:43.480 Strong.

00:00:44.580 This is your life.

00:00:45.680 This is who you are.

00:00:47.100 This is who you will become.

00:00:48.820 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:56.040 Kim, what's up, man?

00:00:56.920 Great to see you.

00:00:57.960 Hope you guys had a great weekend.

00:00:59.120 Sounds like you got away on a little mini vacay.

00:01:02.780 Yeah.

00:01:03.220 Yeah, up to Bear Lake and on the Idaho side and got some skiing in.

00:01:07.520 Have you ever been up there skiing up at, I think it's called Beaver Mountain over by Cache Valley?

00:01:12.640 I've been up there a very, very long time ago, but I think I was so little that we didn't go skiing.

00:01:18.460 It seems like I did tubing or something.

00:01:21.540 I can't remember.

00:01:22.740 I wasn't skiing or snowboarding up there, though.

00:01:24.580 Got it.

00:01:25.480 It was great.

00:01:26.360 Good snow.

00:01:27.220 We got dumped on.

00:01:28.300 I was a little nervous about getting home last night.

00:01:30.920 Oh, I know.

00:01:31.260 It was that kind of weather, but not bad.

00:01:33.580 Well, I was in Salt Lake with my girlfriend and her daughter and my kids, and we were going

00:01:39.160 to the Western Expo, and we got to about Provo, which is, for those of you who don't know,

00:01:45.000 it's about three hours north of where I live, and she went up the canyon, up Provo Canyon,

00:01:50.800 because that's where we were going to stay, and me and the kids went further north to go

00:01:55.180 to Salt Lake for the Expo, and then we went and caught a jazz game afterwards, but it took

00:02:00.740 us an hour and a half, maybe an hour and 40, to get from Provo to Salt Lake, and then she

00:02:06.640 was going to come down and meet us at the jazz game later, and she was coming down the canyon

00:02:11.460 from Midway and called me, and she's like, my map, or texted me and says, my map says

00:02:17.760 an hour and a half, hour and 45, so by the time she would have got there, and her sister

00:02:22.540 and brother-in-law and a couple of their kids, I mean, the game would have been all

00:02:27.120 but over, I'm like, just, you're good, we went and saw the game, but then we drove up

00:02:31.620 the canyon, it was a little sketchy, it was, because the signs were on that said you need

00:02:37.180 to have, what did it say, something like, you need to have traction devices, which chains

00:02:40.600 essentially, or snow tires, I'm like, I don't have either, let's see if we can make it, and

00:02:45.700 we did okay, we just went really, really slow.

00:02:48.760 Yeah, it's wild, last night actually on our way home, there's a patchwork,

00:02:52.540 grass south of Bear Lake, it gets a little sketchy in there, kind of wind drifts across

00:02:57.880 the road really bad, and we're driving home last night, and the car completely backwards

00:03:04.760 on the wrong side of the road, just hugged up into the mountain, and someone's trying

00:03:09.060 to tow them out, you'll appreciate this though, I'm like, hey, you guys got this, the guy's

00:03:14.200 like, yeah, we're figuring it out, and I kept driving, and then the lady that was helping

00:03:19.200 them tow, I'm like, you got this, she's like, no, we need your help.

00:03:22.540 Sounds like the difference between a man and a woman, for sure.

00:03:26.520 Totally, and so, so then we pulled over, and yeah, it was good that we pulled over, because

00:03:32.260 this guy's like, and you were able to pull him out?

00:03:34.660 Yeah, he's like, I have it, I have it hitched on the car, I'm like, where at?

00:03:38.600 And I look, and he has it hooked on, like, no, he has it, like, hooked on the brake line

00:03:44.260 under, on the backside of the tire, I'm like, dude.

00:03:47.320 Oh, no.

00:03:48.200 You're going to destroy your car.

00:03:49.820 Oh, no.

00:03:50.240 Like, hold on, right, and like, let's put it in the right spot.

00:03:53.360 They had no idea what they're doing, but luckily we got him out, so it was good.

00:03:57.160 Hey, you did your good deed for the day.

00:03:59.640 For the, for the day?

00:04:01.060 For the month?

00:04:02.400 I'm sure.

00:04:02.860 No, for the day.

00:04:04.640 How often?

00:04:05.960 One deed turned daily, or however the Boy Scout motto goes.

00:04:09.160 It's daily?

00:04:09.740 Turn a good deed daily.

00:04:11.960 I mean, holding the door open for a little old lady counts, too, so it's a pretty wide

00:04:16.500 range of what is acceptable, but in modern times, it seems like people are, like, willing

00:04:21.300 to shut doors on little old ladies and flip people off as they're stuck on the side of

00:04:26.320 the road.

00:04:26.740 I mean, and I'm actually not exaggerating, like, there's people who will laugh, people

00:04:31.240 who are stuck on the side of the road, and there's men, grown men, who will drive by and

00:04:35.980 laugh and say, it sucks to be them.

00:04:38.100 What a loser.

00:04:40.040 Totally.

00:04:40.440 I mean, truly, it really is.

00:04:42.280 We are in just degenerate times, so props to you for doing your duty.

00:04:47.080 Yeah, well, I had to bring it up on the podcast, so at least I can take credit for my one duty

00:04:51.160 a year.

00:04:51.940 Well, that's the only way you get credit for it.

00:04:53.920 You don't get credit for doing it.

00:04:55.300 You get credit for talking about it.

00:04:56.800 Did you make your Instagram post about it yet?

00:04:58.720 Yeah, I will.

00:04:59.460 I will, for certain.

00:05:00.260 Okay, please do.

00:05:01.600 Please do.

00:05:04.720 So you got a headline?

00:05:06.160 What's on the mind?

00:05:06.920 What's on the mind of Mr. Mickler?

00:05:08.340 Well, I mean, the big headline is the U.S. beat Canada in the hockey match.

00:05:15.620 I mean, that was just incredible.

00:05:18.280 You know, three fights in the first whatever it was, 60 seconds, 90 seconds of the game.

00:05:23.940 Nine seconds.

00:05:24.840 Within nine seconds of the game.

00:05:27.080 Yeah.

00:05:27.240 Look, you know, I think it's hilarious.

00:05:31.360 I think it's funny.

00:05:32.300 But there are real world consequences that impact economically our Canadian brothers and

00:05:37.480 sisters and us as well.

00:05:39.480 So I did see, I was kind of reveling in it a little bit, the fact that we won the game

00:05:44.180 and started the fights and Canada was booing the national anthem.

00:05:46.860 But my beef is not with, it's not with Canadians.

00:05:54.140 I mean, how many Canadian brothers do we have inside the Iron Council?

00:05:57.600 Dozens, if not hundreds, right?

00:05:59.680 My beef is not with Canadians.

00:06:01.640 My beef is with your loser, Trudeau, and the government that is just raping and pillaging

00:06:09.740 and taking advantage of you in every possible way they can.

00:06:13.720 And you guys are allowing it.

00:06:15.120 And you're allowing it to happen.

00:06:17.380 We had it happen over the last four years, but that's changed now.

00:06:20.240 And sure, it's ruffled some feathers.

00:06:21.560 But man, we've made changes that I think are going to positively impact not only our current

00:06:26.980 economic and a situation and our stage in the global arena, but this is going to last

00:06:34.060 for decades.

00:06:37.040 And these are the changes that need to be made.

00:06:39.520 So my beef is not with the Canadians.

00:06:42.140 My beef is with your government.

00:06:43.980 And I have a general disdain for all government, including ours.

00:06:47.260 I just wonder when you guys will have enough of your own that you do something about it.

00:06:52.340 Yeah.

00:06:53.120 Yeah.

00:06:53.580 What was the, what's the, what's the upset from the Canadian side?

00:06:57.900 It's just the upset.

00:07:00.040 What do you mean by that?

00:07:01.080 Trump's remarks or wanting to do tariffs.

00:07:03.420 Is that the driving factor?

00:07:05.160 Yeah.

00:07:05.700 Tariffs.

00:07:06.300 Trump's remarks.

00:07:07.180 You know, obviously, you know, you have Trump's trollery with making Canada the 51st state.

00:07:13.040 If I'm a Canadian, I'd be pissed too.

00:07:15.660 Oh, I would be absolutely pissed.

00:07:16.660 If he's calling Canada the 51st state, I'd be raged too, for sure.

00:07:21.160 I mean, he's a masterful troll and I don't think that will ever happen.

00:07:26.140 I don't even think that's worth pursuing, but the tariffs are an issue.

00:07:31.200 Um, but what people don't understand about Trump, at least the, the naysayers and the

00:07:36.160 skeptics is that Trump is pragmatic.

00:07:40.940 He wants practical economic wins and he does not like bad headlines.

00:07:45.280 And you might say because of his ego or whatever, fine, I don't care.

00:07:48.000 He does not want bad press.

00:07:49.800 Now he gets it, but he does not want, he doesn't want to be a loser.

00:07:53.960 And so what people don't understand is that he's not using tariffs to make things harder

00:08:00.920 or to enrich his friends or whatever people say.

00:08:03.840 That's not what he's trying to do.

00:08:05.820 He's, he's a masterful negotiator.

00:08:08.980 So he's using those as leverage.

00:08:11.780 He's just dangling this stick out and saying, I'm going to beat you with this stick unless

00:08:16.860 you do what you want, we want you to do.

00:08:19.420 And up to this point, most countries that have been threatened with a stick have complied

00:08:25.180 as they ought to, because we are the world's superpower, period.

00:08:30.920 And because we're in charge, we make the rules.

00:08:33.760 Don't like the rules.

00:08:34.760 Don't do business with us.

00:08:36.020 That's fine.

00:08:36.780 But we'll win because we're in the position to do it.

00:08:39.800 So we have the leverage.

00:08:41.120 We spent the last four years playing victim, playing the loser card, playing the loser role

00:08:46.300 when clearly that's not the position we're in.

00:08:48.980 We have a duty to be moral and to be ethical and to be charitable.

00:08:55.600 But we also have a duty to take care of our citizens and be the world's superpower because

00:09:01.520 we are, generally speaking, a very moral country.

00:09:05.460 So it's in our duties and obligations to wield that power in a very effective way.

00:09:13.400 Yeah.

00:09:14.100 Yeah.

00:09:14.340 Well said.

00:09:15.160 Did you hear the response from, I think it was like the past prime minister or whatever

00:09:20.000 of Africa when he was in a speech?

00:09:23.720 Did you hear this?

00:09:24.440 Yes.

00:09:25.020 I think, go ahead.

00:09:26.040 And I think you're talking about how he said, people don't owe us any money.

00:09:29.000 Is that what you're talking about?

00:09:29.880 Yes.

00:09:30.420 Yes.

00:09:30.820 I love it.

00:09:31.180 I don't want to steal your thunder.

00:09:32.120 Go for it.

00:09:32.460 Well, I don't, I don't steal my thunder because I can't quote him, but I wish I actually thought

00:09:37.640 about it ahead of time so I could grab his quote, but it was, it was profound.

00:09:41.120 It was really great.

00:09:42.760 And I, I love the mentality.

00:09:44.700 He was making a mockery of it.

00:09:45.800 Yeah.

00:09:46.780 Yeah.

00:09:47.380 It was so good.

00:09:48.120 I mean, it's the, the, the, if you guys haven't seen it, go look it up and I can't quote it

00:09:51.960 either, but essentially he said when America's as America has started to shut off foreign

00:09:58.000 funding, he basically said, yeah, they don't owe us any money.

00:10:01.860 Trump is doing what's in the best interest of his citizens.

00:10:04.140 The fact that we're just receiving handouts is laughable.

00:10:07.100 And if we were in the same position, we would do the same.

00:10:10.400 And he also said, we're the ones not handling our resources correctly.

00:10:15.000 We're the ones that have government waste and unnecessary spending.

00:10:18.920 It's our responsibility to handle our resources correctly for our own citizens, but it's not

00:10:23.700 America's responsibility to take care of us.

00:10:26.120 He's debt.

00:10:26.820 But he's saying things that half of our politicians, mostly liberals and Democrats would never even

00:10:34.640 dream of saying, and this is a guy from, I don't know what country, uh, who, who's saying

00:10:40.580 this.

00:10:40.880 And I think people are waking up to the realities a little bit.

00:10:44.360 Yeah.

00:10:45.200 Yeah.

00:10:45.420 That was good.

00:10:46.240 All right.

00:10:46.860 Should we hop into a question, sir?

00:10:48.560 Yeah, let's do it, man.

00:10:49.220 I think we got some good ones from Facebook today.

00:10:51.300 Yeah, we do.

00:10:51.860 Uh, to join us on that Facebook group, that's facebook.com slash group slash order, man,

00:10:56.620 Trevor Riley.

00:10:57.880 How do you resolve the realization that you've put people on a pedestal that you can't realistically

00:11:03.660 stand on?

00:11:04.880 I'm disappointed to find a couple of men in my circle.

00:11:07.820 Aren't as high caliber as I initially thought still good men, but not the types that will

00:11:12.640 help me continue to raise my game.

00:11:14.720 Thanks for all that you do for the order.

00:11:17.720 Well, I think you took the first step.

00:11:19.500 You acknowledge it.

00:11:20.140 And you see that the guys that you put on pedestals probably don't belong to be there.

00:11:23.980 And nobody does, quite frankly.

00:11:26.120 Even the people closest to you, your kids, your wife, whoever it might be, they don't

00:11:28.940 deserve to be on a pedestal.

00:11:30.600 They deserve to be treated with respect.

00:11:33.300 They deserve to be honored with the commitment that you made to them.

00:11:36.600 But as far as putting them on a pedestal, that's a recipe for disaster.

00:11:40.840 It's not fair to you to do that.

00:11:42.700 And by the way, it's also not fair to them.

00:11:45.160 If you have the woman in your life and you put her on this pedestal, now all of a sudden

00:11:51.380 you're going to hold her this extremely high, unreasonable expectation.

00:11:55.400 And the minute that she slips up, and she will, just like you will, then you begin to think

00:12:00.360 less of her.

00:12:01.560 And that's not fair to her.

00:12:03.500 It's not fair to you.

00:12:04.500 It's not fair to your children or other people who might be impacted by that relationship.

00:12:08.240 So the first one is to acknowledge it.

00:12:11.440 The second one is to realize that you aren't obligated to do much more in certain people's

00:12:16.460 lives.

00:12:17.260 To the woman in your life, I would suggest you are, because you made some commitments and

00:12:21.140 you have some obligations and some responsibilities that you've agreed to uphold.

00:12:26.040 But friendships, for example, or people that you like or look up to, you're not obligated

00:12:32.660 to continue to maintain a relationship with anybody just because you guys have been friends,

00:12:39.100 for example, for decades.

00:12:41.020 That's not a thing.

00:12:43.040 We talked about this last week.

00:12:44.600 You might need to compartmentalize some of those people.

00:12:48.080 Realize that they're flawed.

00:12:49.020 Realize they're human.

00:12:50.300 Realize you're flawed and you're human.

00:12:52.240 Offer yourself some grace.

00:12:53.380 Afford them some grace.

00:12:54.320 But also it doesn't mean you need to keep them in your life to the degree that you are right

00:12:57.920 now.

00:12:58.200 And that's part of the process of rectifying you putting them on pedestals is taking them

00:13:05.680 off the pedestal and treating them like adults with accountability.

00:13:10.380 So if I have a friend or a person that I care about and I've thought the world of them and

00:13:15.040 they mess up, then I think as a friend, I would have some sort of responsibility to say,

00:13:21.280 hey, man, I don't appreciate the way you're showing up right now.

00:13:24.740 I would say that to you, Kip.

00:13:26.580 Yeah.

00:13:26.800 I haven't put you on a pedestal, but I think highly of you.

00:13:29.320 I look up to you.

00:13:30.780 I think highly of you.

00:13:32.540 And I also care enough about you that I'm willing to risk the relationship.

00:13:37.500 If I saw you, for example, and I'm not even remotely suggesting this.

00:13:42.140 I'm just giving this as an example.

00:13:43.260 Thanks for clarifying.

00:13:43.820 I want to make sure I'm clear about this.

00:13:45.620 But if I saw you being inappropriate with another woman, you better believe, because I know you

00:13:52.000 and love you and I know Asian love her, you better believe I'm going to say something

00:13:55.240 to you about it.

00:13:56.300 Yeah.

00:13:56.800 Absolutely.

00:13:57.360 And I might alienate the relationship if I do, but that's the point of a friendship.

00:14:02.200 Kip, bro, you're toeing the line with this woman or this thing you're doing or whatever

00:14:08.800 and like, what's going on?

00:14:11.400 Help me understand because from where I sit, I don't want to see you mess up like this.

00:14:15.560 You got a beautiful family.

00:14:16.980 You got a woman who loves you.

00:14:18.700 What are we doing here?

00:14:20.120 And that's what's required of a friendship, I believe.

00:14:23.440 Yeah.

00:14:23.620 And that's how you do it.

00:14:26.180 The other thing, the last thing I'll say, and I want to hear what you have to say is

00:14:28.880 that we just have to lower our expectations of other people.

00:14:32.940 That's it.

00:14:35.000 That's it.

00:14:35.120 In fact, I'm so on board with this thought process that I have standards of the way that

00:14:44.460 people should show up.

00:14:45.680 And that's subjective, by the way, but I have a standard of the way that I believe you should

00:14:51.180 show up, but I don't expect you to do it.

00:14:53.360 You get to make that decision.

00:14:55.360 And if you don't uphold the standard that I have, and to be fair, that I've communicated

00:15:00.300 with you, that's not my choice to not be engaged in whatever sort of relationship we

00:15:06.240 might have.

00:15:06.760 That's your choice.

00:15:07.580 So I have standards for myself and I have standards for other people.

00:15:13.400 And as long as you're meeting those standards, we're good.

00:15:16.460 If you're not, I'm going to let you know.

00:15:18.400 If you continue to mess those up, I can't do this anymore.

00:15:21.200 Although not part of Trevor's question, there's a little bit of a dichotomy here, right?

00:15:27.260 Where he's saying, you know, being a realist, Dylan, in reality that people aren't on these

00:15:33.220 pedestals, but it's also in the root of him trying to be around guys that will continually

00:15:40.020 raise his game.

00:15:42.080 And so he might have this, this unmet expectation.

00:15:46.180 It's always going to happen, right?

00:15:47.460 That Trevor might keep looking for more high caliber guys to be around and they're not going

00:15:52.800 to be as high caliber as he thinks they are, right?

00:15:55.480 And they never will be.

00:15:56.660 I don't know if, I mean, I'm sure you've experienced this probably way more than I even have, but

00:16:00.780 there's been people that I put on pedestals, whether it was their financial success or popularity

00:16:08.220 or whatever.

00:16:08.840 And you get to know them, you're like, man, there's just another guy, which is kind of

00:16:13.620 refreshing more than an issue per se.

00:16:16.640 But, but how do you balance this as Trevor's like hyper-focused on being around high caliber

00:16:21.460 guys and all these guys, quote unquote, may not be as high caliber as he thinks they are?

00:16:27.500 Well, when you said it's refreshing, I don't think generally people believe that when you

00:16:33.820 see a guy and you think, oh, this is just a normal dude.

00:16:36.320 A lot of people are actually let down, but I think that's a big indicator that you're thinking

00:16:42.080 way too highly of them.

00:16:43.320 But if on the other hand, you see, let's say you meet me in person and you realize I'm

00:16:49.100 not really all that great.

00:16:50.780 Like I'm an ordinary guy.

00:16:52.280 I'm pretty good at some things.

00:16:53.740 I'm really terrible at other things.

00:16:55.420 And we have conversations and you agree and you don't agree.

00:16:58.960 And we just have like a human interaction.

00:17:00.860 It should actually be empowering when you see somebody that you look up to that they've

00:17:05.840 achieved some level of success, however you might define that, but also can realize that

00:17:11.700 this is a normal guy.

00:17:12.820 Because what that means is that you can also have success.

00:17:16.900 It doesn't require some superhuman ability in order to achieve what it is you desire.

00:17:23.180 An ordinary guy can do it, which means that you can, because you're ordinary.

00:17:28.860 So the other thing I'll say on that, Kip, too, is that if you're looking to people, let's

00:17:32.800 say you want to be a bodybuilder.

00:17:37.200 And I'm not in the bodybuilding world.

00:17:39.340 I don't really know.

00:17:41.080 Chris Bumstead, I think, is somebody who comes to mind as like a premier bodybuilder,

00:17:45.040 right?

00:17:45.300 So you look at Chris and you are inspired by what he does and you're motivated and you

00:17:51.680 see all of his workouts he's doing and you train like him and you work like him.

00:17:58.080 Compartmentalize that.

00:17:59.260 I don't know Chris personally.

00:18:01.980 He's probably a regular dude and he's probably really good.

00:18:05.080 Well, we know he's really good in that world and he's probably pretty terrible at some things.

00:18:08.780 And that's not even an indictment against him.

00:18:10.500 It's just being a human.

00:18:12.940 So take it for what it's worth.

00:18:14.460 You don't know Chris.

00:18:16.680 You just are inspired by his bodybuilding.

00:18:19.180 And that should be enough.

00:18:20.940 The minute you start attaching morality to it and making assumptions about how great and

00:18:26.360 wonderful and Christ-like this human being might be is the minute you start setting yourself

00:18:31.020 up for success.

00:18:32.620 If you see somebody who's extremely wealthy and you think to yourself, I want to be like

00:18:39.300 that guy.

00:18:40.420 Compartmentalize that.

00:18:41.100 That guy is really, really good at building wealth.

00:18:43.720 But you don't know what kind of father he is.

00:18:45.800 You don't know what kind of husband he is.

00:18:47.800 You don't even know, frankly, if he built his wealth morally or not.

00:18:51.740 So learn to compartmentalize.

00:18:54.160 I thought this about Liver King, you know, the fall of Liver King when he came out.

00:18:59.000 And it's like, like, why are people disappointed?

00:19:02.980 Did you really believe everything that he was saying?

00:19:06.520 And if you did, shame on you, not shame on him.

00:19:10.760 Be a little bit more discerning about where you invest your time, energy, and resources.

00:19:16.080 Even me, even you.

00:19:18.140 Listen to this podcast.

00:19:19.300 Get what you can out of it.

00:19:20.480 But no, we're moral, and we screw up.

00:19:22.720 I screw up all the time.

00:19:24.440 And just live with that.

00:19:27.240 It's fascinating why we do this.

00:19:30.100 I haven't thought about it, right?

00:19:32.320 But just listening to your response to Trevor's question, I just can't help but think, like,

00:19:36.100 why do we assume?

00:19:38.640 I don't know.

00:19:39.220 Why do we put people on pedestals?

00:19:41.480 And then, or we see greatness in a particular area, and then we just assume that that's

00:19:46.480 transcendent across how this person shows up in the world.

00:19:49.920 And then there's this harsh judgment to how they, I don't know.

00:19:54.020 It's fascinating.

00:19:55.240 It's probably something I want to rat hole on a little bit around what's the psychology

00:20:00.320 around it.

00:20:01.860 There's actually a cognitive bias.

00:20:05.460 I'm pulling it up right now because I can't remember what it's called.

00:20:09.220 Uh, there's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

00:20:12.980 That's a little bit different.

00:20:13.980 Oh, the halo effect.

00:20:14.980 So here it is.

00:20:15.520 The bias occurs when a positive impression in one area leads to an assumption of positive

00:20:20.820 qualities in another unrelated area.

00:20:23.000 For example, if someone is a great public speaker, people might automatically assure,

00:20:27.640 or excuse me, assume that they are also a skilled leader, even without evidence.

00:20:32.400 Because I think without having the, the knowledge, my, my intuition is it, it's a, it's an efficiency

00:20:41.460 code embedded in our brain.

00:20:44.340 To put them in a box really quick and make sense.

00:20:46.840 Right.

00:20:47.600 Yeah.

00:20:47.860 Yeah.

00:20:48.040 Because we have to do it fast because we have to process this data really, really quickly.

00:20:52.240 Yeah.

00:20:52.640 So if he's a great speaker, I'm like, Ooh, man, that guy's a great leader.

00:20:56.140 Yeah.

00:20:56.580 Right.

00:20:57.060 And it's easy for us as human beings to process it that way.

00:21:00.240 And we probably most of the time get it pretty accurate, but it doesn't always equate to

00:21:06.420 that.

00:21:07.200 Yeah.

00:21:07.400 We see that, you know, another place you see this is professional athletes.

00:21:10.660 Totally.

00:21:11.160 We think that because they're professional athletes, then they start spouting out about

00:21:14.320 politics and we're like, Oh, they must be, no, they're, they have no idea.

00:21:18.060 Or if you watch a commercial and, you know, I remember some of my favorite heroes when

00:21:25.700 I was growing up, like Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, you know, these are like heroes of

00:21:30.700 mine that I looked up to and they're doing geriatric, um, like seats to sit down on the

00:21:37.300 toilet to lift yourself up as a geriatric, like an old person.

00:21:40.880 And, and, but we give them, we lend them credit because what does that have to do with them

00:21:46.460 being a great football player, but we lend them credit because of this, uh, halo effect.

00:21:52.020 Yeah.

00:21:52.880 Yeah.

00:21:53.440 Interesting.

00:21:54.100 All right.

00:21:55.000 Austin Chamberlain, how do you work on nurturing side of being a man?

00:21:59.780 It's pretty easy to figure out how to grow as protectors, providers, presiders.

00:22:04.540 It's in our nature, but how do we practice and get better at being empathetic, especially

00:22:09.960 with wives and kids?

00:22:13.840 Um, I'm, I'm skeptical, not skeptical.

00:22:16.460 I'm hesitant to answer this question because I would never want it to come across as I

00:22:20.840 know exactly what I'm talking about in this department.

00:22:24.340 This is something that I really, really lack, especially with my kids.

00:22:29.560 And I know it's mostly because I'm very impatient.

00:22:33.920 And I think that is important.

00:22:36.360 That is important.

00:22:37.380 An important component of the equation is you have to know why you don't nurture or why

00:22:45.600 you aren't empathetic to the degree that you would like to be.

00:22:47.860 You wouldn't be asking this question if that weren't the case, but why is that the case?

00:22:52.560 For me, it's a lack of patience.

00:22:55.460 And then the secondary is that it's when my schedule and my commitments are too great.

00:23:04.340 I have too much on my plate.

00:23:07.080 When I don't have as much on my plate and when I've allowed myself the proper amount of time

00:23:11.680 for certain things, I found myself being a lot more nurturing towards the people that

00:23:15.700 I care about.

00:23:16.240 It's the whole effect that you're like rushing out the door to get to the appointment or the

00:23:20.640 game and your damn kid can't tie his shoes.

00:23:24.600 Instead of getting down on your knee and saying, all right, let me show you.

00:23:27.660 Here's the bunny ears.

00:23:28.580 Put the rabbit through the hole or however you teach your kids to tie his shoes.

00:23:31.520 You're like, just put your damn shoes on.

00:23:33.360 Let's go.

00:23:33.960 Or just get the Crocs, get the sandals.

00:23:35.560 We got to go.

00:23:36.180 Like get them, put them in the car.

00:23:37.220 And that's where I become anyways, less empathetic.

00:23:42.100 So I would say that, understanding why.

00:23:45.380 And then another thing that I would work on that I do try to work on is just trying to

00:23:51.780 understand people's perspective by asking questions and not getting offended when they

00:24:00.120 tell you things that are really hard to hear.

00:24:02.000 You know, I've, I've had conversations in the past week where things have been said to

00:24:07.200 me.

00:24:07.420 I have this every week, every day worth, I mean, I'm on social media.

00:24:11.220 So every day I hear from people warranted or not that tell me things I don't like to

00:24:15.900 hear.

00:24:17.400 It's, it's okay.

00:24:18.480 Like just try to understand where they're coming from.

00:24:21.600 You know, if somebody on social media blasts you about whatever, they're probably just a

00:24:25.820 miserable person.

00:24:26.600 And if you ask a question like, Hey man, everything good.

00:24:30.580 You'd be surprised.

00:24:31.500 I've done that.

00:24:32.260 You'd be surprised how many people message me and they're like, Hey man, I'm actually,

00:24:36.800 I'm sorry.

00:24:37.400 I was a dick in that comment.

00:24:40.080 My wife and I are going through a divorce or I just lost my job.

00:24:43.560 I have this happen weekly.

00:24:45.580 My wife and I are struggling or I, you know, I was drunk.

00:24:49.080 I've had people tell me that I was drunk.

00:24:51.160 I'm an idiot.

00:24:52.020 I'm sorry.

00:24:52.820 You were pretty graceful about it.

00:24:54.980 Now I don't always do that.

00:24:56.160 A lot of times I'll just fight back with him.

00:24:57.540 I probably shouldn't do that.

00:24:58.380 I should be more graceful.

00:24:59.300 Um, or, you know, you get into an argument with your significant other instead of like,

00:25:04.880 like proving your side of the point, just try to understand where they're coming from.

00:25:10.820 And then when they tell you something, even if they say it wrong and they will just like

00:25:14.640 you will just understand it's not really how they're saying it.

00:25:18.960 It's what they're saying and the, the meaning behind it.

00:25:22.400 And shouldn't we want to know that even if it's painful because their perception is the

00:25:27.940 way they see it.

00:25:28.460 That's reality for them.

00:25:30.100 So you fighting against it, you digging in your heels, you having an attitude back doesn't

00:25:39.760 change their perception of you.

00:25:41.480 In fact, if anything, it probably just confirms their perception of you.

00:25:46.340 So the other few things I'm personally working on.

00:25:49.640 Totally.

00:25:50.760 Yeah.

00:25:51.180 I think for me, especially when we talk about kids and this is still the case even with my

00:25:57.060 wife, but more so with my kids, it's when I'm not very empathetic, it's a result of me

00:26:02.660 losing sight of, of my role and the bigger picture of what we're trying to do.

00:26:07.900 Um, I use the analogy of, of their room, not getting clean, right.

00:26:13.040 Or them not hurrying and I'm doubling down on the tactical win, right.

00:26:18.000 Of the room.

00:26:18.760 I'm doubling down on the tactical win of not being late.

00:26:21.780 It's, it's, and I've lost sight of the bigger picture, which is raising kids and developing

00:26:29.140 them.

00:26:30.320 And I've lost sight of that.

00:26:31.820 And so I, I persecute them to get things done.

00:26:35.520 Right.

00:26:35.900 And I see the gap constantly in what they're doing and I don't look at progress or give

00:26:42.280 myself the margin to have the necessary coaching to help them deal with whatever upset they

00:26:47.520 have, you know?

00:26:49.020 And, and so I think for me, it's just keeping that bigger perspective, right?

00:26:54.380 My role here as a father is not to have a clean room, right?

00:26:57.760 It's, it's not to have my kids on time.

00:26:59.440 It's actually to raise them, which means I have to have margin to help them deal with

00:27:05.060 or margin for me to deal with, you know, them growing and figuring things out and being

00:27:10.620 emotionally frustrated.

00:27:11.960 And like, how do they process that versus, you know, stop whining, shut up, you know,

00:27:17.820 let's go kind of mentality.

00:27:19.520 So, uh, but full disclosure, right.

00:27:21.700 As I say all this, you know, I'm like, I struggle with this a lot and there's certain, and it's

00:27:26.900 funny how there's certain triggers, like there's certain things, if they do those things, I lose

00:27:31.500 my shit real quick more than other things.

00:27:35.400 Right.

00:27:35.780 And, and like whining or complaining about their circumstance is like one of the top ones

00:27:41.200 on my list.

00:27:41.720 Like that happens.

00:27:43.020 I, I know I'll get mad instantly.

00:27:46.420 It's, it's funny you say that because, uh, yesterday, um, my oldest son wanted to, we

00:27:52.560 had a, there was a lacrosse game at the local university and, and it was at six o'clock at

00:27:58.100 night and my oldest son wanted to go.

00:27:59.220 I'm like, yeah, we can go.

00:28:00.660 And I'm starting to see a trend of my kids just complaining about things.

00:28:06.500 Yeah.

00:28:07.060 And, and I got, as they were complaining about a couple of things on the trip that we took

00:28:10.340 up to the expo and I'm like, you know, when I was a kid, I would have killed for a trip

00:28:15.300 like this.

00:28:16.560 Like I didn't have opportunities like this.

00:28:18.820 We didn't go out to eat every night.

00:28:20.280 We didn't have this beautiful home to stay in.

00:28:23.040 We didn't have, uh, like trips.

00:28:25.620 Like we, we didn't have that stuff.

00:28:27.120 And I didn't pull the, you know, when I was a kid, I had to walk uphill both ways and

00:28:30.520 I didn't pull that.

00:28:31.800 But in my head, I was thinking, imagine complaining that your dad took you on a trip where he took

00:28:39.640 you to a jazz game.

00:28:40.800 And then we went to this expo and you're upset because you had to listen to him, talk to

00:28:45.140 a friend for 10 minutes while you were sitting there.

00:28:48.360 Like imagine that as a kid.

00:28:51.140 And it got me thinking about what you said.

00:28:54.060 So last night when we went to this game, we got in the car and I got everybody packed

00:28:58.280 up in the car and I said, Hey, I have two rules for tonight.

00:29:04.320 And they were all receptive.

00:29:05.560 They're all listening.

00:29:06.020 I said, rule number one, there will be no complaining.

00:29:10.540 There will be zero complaining.

00:29:12.240 If I hear somebody complaining, there's consequences.

00:29:15.660 Rule number two, we're going to be kind to each other.

00:29:19.160 You're not going to make offhanded comments.

00:29:21.280 You're not going to poke at each other.

00:29:22.600 You're not going to tease each other.

00:29:23.800 Those are my two rules.

00:29:25.340 If those two rules aren't met, I'm done.

00:29:27.920 We're not doing it.

00:29:28.600 And for the most part, my youngest, he started to complain, but he fell asleep on my lap of

00:29:35.300 the game and he woke up and started to complain because he's seven and just woke up.

00:29:40.300 But I told him, I said, Hey, look, remember, we already agreed.

00:29:43.960 There's no complaining.

00:29:46.520 And he just kind of moped and didn't do it.

00:29:48.420 I'm like, that's fine.

00:29:49.060 You can do that.

00:29:49.940 I just don't want to hear about it.

00:29:51.080 So I think the moral of the story is, at least I learned this yesterday and it worked well,

00:29:55.320 is just bring up the stuff ahead of time and say, Hey, this is how we are to behave in

00:30:00.200 this environment.

00:30:00.840 And then you can hold them accountable to something.

00:30:03.200 Yeah.

00:30:03.580 And hold them accountable less emotionally, like, uh, of a lash out when you do it that

00:30:08.960 way.

00:30:09.120 Good point.

00:30:09.680 Yeah.

00:30:09.860 Good point.

00:30:11.000 Yeah.

00:30:11.380 But again, disclosure, there was moments this weekend where I was the antithesis of that.

00:30:17.360 So just want to be clear on that.

00:30:19.960 It's tough reps.

00:30:21.340 Reps Austin is the answer.

00:30:23.180 Reps.

00:30:23.720 Yeah.

00:30:24.640 All right.

00:30:25.280 Chris, uh, so, uh, Sora, Katie, and I looked at his pronunciation, Chris, so, uh, you're

00:30:32.300 welcome.

00:30:32.840 How do you tell your wife you're worried about her mental and physical health without getting

00:30:38.220 her upset?

00:30:40.420 I mean, you're, you're going to get her upset.

00:30:44.820 I, what I would do is I would lead with something along these lines.

00:30:51.080 And I'm just going to give you a couple of guidelines I think might help a little bit.

00:30:55.800 So the position of empathy, not accusation.

00:31:00.720 So you're not accusing her of having a hard time with her physical health or mental health.

00:31:06.400 You're concerned.

00:31:07.260 You're concerned.

00:31:08.640 You're, hey, babe, you seem to be more tired than you've been in the past, or you seem to

00:31:14.540 be, um, more irritable than you've been in the past.

00:31:17.620 And I can't help but wonder if everything's okay.

00:31:20.780 Hey, what's going on?

00:31:22.180 The empathetic versus an accusatory approach.

00:31:27.540 And the best way to do that tactically, I think, is to ask questions and let her come

00:31:34.080 to the answer herself.

00:31:36.660 So it might be, hey, babe, like you seem, these last couple of weeks, I know it's been

00:31:41.200 hard.

00:31:41.680 You know, we've, I've had a busy schedule.

00:31:43.140 The kids have been crazy.

00:31:44.100 We've got sports and this and that, and you seem to be a little bit more agitated than

00:31:49.840 you've been in the past towards me and towards the kids.

00:31:52.940 But how do you feel?

00:31:57.380 The challenge with this is that if you're not good at doing this, that she might not

00:32:03.900 really open up immediately because she knows either the angle you're taking or she's pretty

00:32:09.220 clear about how you'll respond.

00:32:11.360 So if you say, for example, how are you feeling?

00:32:13.540 And she's like, well, I haven't been feeling good.

00:32:15.340 I've been tired and stressed about X, Y, and Z.

00:32:17.860 And you're like, well, yeah, it's because you do all these things and you shouldn't do

00:32:21.300 those things.

00:32:24.160 We as men are notorious for that.

00:32:26.300 And if you do that, when you ask her, she's going to shut down.

00:32:28.860 And next time you ask her, she's going to be less inclined to answer the question.

00:32:34.160 The phrase here is, yeah, I can see how you'd feel that way.

00:32:38.580 Or that must be difficult.

00:32:42.200 Or why do you feel that way?

00:32:44.280 Or have you thought about how you might address that?

00:32:49.720 Again, you're leading.

00:32:51.100 And I think it is leadership.

00:32:52.420 You're navigating the conversation, but you're doing it with empathy intact.

00:32:56.060 And she's not dumb.

00:32:58.760 She knows she feels like garbage.

00:33:00.680 She knows she's down.

00:33:01.820 She knows that maybe she's not as strong or, you know, putting on a few pounds.

00:33:06.620 Like she knows all that.

00:33:07.620 You're not going to tell her anything.

00:33:08.980 She doesn't, she's intimately aware of it.

00:33:10.980 Every time she looks in the mirror, every time she gets out of bed, she's all stressed.

00:33:14.960 She knows it more than you do.

00:33:16.260 Trust me.

00:33:16.800 Let her work through it.

00:33:20.900 And you might need to guide and lead.

00:33:23.600 And also, you might offer to do things together.

00:33:28.040 If it gets to that point, let's say it's the physical fitness realm.

00:33:32.060 Hey, do you think it would be cool if we maybe picked a fitness goal and did it together?

00:33:36.180 Maybe it's a Spartan race or maybe it's a, you know, 90 day workout program or, or whatever.

00:33:44.580 And we do it together.

00:33:45.980 So again, empathetic, it's teamwork.

00:33:48.880 You guys are on a team.

00:33:49.860 You're not accusing.

00:33:50.780 You're saying, let's do this together.

00:33:51.700 If you think that would help you feel better.

00:33:53.340 But I think if you navigate this correctly, she's probably going to be working through some

00:33:58.340 of those issues.

00:33:58.880 She already is, but this might help her come to some conclusions on her own rather than you

00:34:02.560 having to be the one to suggest them.

00:34:04.740 Yeah.

00:34:04.880 This somewhat goes without saying, but Chris, make sure you're modeling as well, right?

00:34:12.600 Good point.

00:34:13.400 Yeah.

00:34:13.620 Good point.

00:34:13.940 This is a much harder conversation when your health and, and, you know, physical and mental

00:34:18.400 health is a mess and you're placing judgment, telling her that maybe she should, right?

00:34:25.300 Like, and I know that's Ryan's not suggesting even taking that approach, but, you know, one of

00:34:30.720 the best things that you can do is, is model it, show her.

00:34:34.880 You get more energy, you get your health and shape.

00:34:37.940 You feel great about it, right?

00:34:39.880 And be okay where she is.

00:34:42.140 Be careful.

00:34:43.020 Because often when we tackle something and someone else is not doing it, it becomes even

00:34:49.020 more hyper.

00:34:50.980 It becomes easier to place judgment.

00:34:53.280 I always use the analogy.

00:34:54.540 I've like years ago, I had a goal and I've done this on and off about like not using my

00:34:59.640 phone at home.

00:35:00.340 And I'm like, Oh, I've never used my phone.

00:35:02.200 Dude, it only takes like the second day for me to instantly be pissed off that everybody's

00:35:07.680 on their phones because I'm not right.

00:35:11.100 Because you're not right.

00:35:12.560 Super natural to do that.

00:35:14.080 So be careful.

00:35:15.440 Um, be happy with where you are.

00:35:17.540 Looked, you know, look to serve through love and empathy.

00:35:20.840 Um, but show her, show her what that looks like.

00:35:24.840 If you, if you're not, I mean, yeah, look, I, I, I don't think you're wrong.

00:35:31.040 I, that's just the, I think it's a pretty common answer.

00:35:33.920 Like, Oh, be the example.

00:35:36.220 I know.

00:35:36.920 But part of my gut was like, yeah, but I just don't know that the example is always enough.

00:35:43.640 Yeah, no.

00:35:44.460 And I don't think it is.

00:35:45.400 I think be, be the example and still have these conversations.

00:35:49.480 Absolutely.

00:35:50.200 Yeah.

00:35:50.480 But don't just have these conversations and not be leading by example.

00:35:54.500 Yeah.

00:35:54.880 I think I've just heard too many, and I'm not suggesting you did, but I think I've heard

00:35:58.140 too many people that'll just say, Oh, you just, you gotta be the example.

00:36:01.360 You gotta be, be better.

00:36:02.320 It's like, okay.

00:36:03.540 Like that's not all there is to it.

00:36:05.700 I mean, that's a huge component of it, but make sure you have a well-rounded approach to

00:36:10.320 this.

00:36:10.460 And it might be something simple.

00:36:12.280 Like, um, if it's the phone thing, it's, it's like, let, let your people know what you're

00:36:17.320 doing.

00:36:17.900 Hey guys, I just want to let you know, I know I've been distant the last couple of weeks

00:36:21.220 and I feel like part of the problem is I'm always distracted by this little device.

00:36:24.900 So I'm going to take it upon myself to not have this at home and not be using this at

00:36:32.340 home.

00:36:33.040 And I want to invite you to do that with me.

00:36:35.720 And now you're all working on it together and they're to your, you know, this is a

00:36:42.120 little bit from your playbook.

00:36:43.160 They're bought into the idea a little bit more.

00:36:46.140 And like, the other thing we have is these covert contracts where you're talking about

00:36:50.680 it.

00:36:50.780 I'm not going to ever be on my phone.

00:36:52.560 Nobody knows what you're doing.

00:36:54.760 Yeah.

00:36:55.780 Like they might say, Oh, dad's a little bit more available than he's been in the past,

00:36:59.720 but they're not thinking to themselves, Oh, he has this challenge that he's no longer

00:37:02.580 going to, they don't know.

00:37:03.600 How would they know that?

00:37:05.060 Unless you communicate it with them.

00:37:06.540 So make sure you communicate what you're doing.

00:37:09.200 I don't think you need to disclose all of your goals.

00:37:12.040 There's certain things where it's just do it and let your actions speak for themselves.

00:37:15.680 But if you want them involved, then I think communicating what you're doing would be a

00:37:19.820 worthwhile goal.

00:37:21.240 Yeah.

00:37:22.820 Elijah Henry, does the man whose voice has been on even more episodes than Ryan's voice

00:37:28.980 ever listened to the podcast?

00:37:30.640 And I think he's talking about the, the intro, the intro guy that you use.

00:37:36.700 Oh, I'm like, what does that even mean?

00:37:39.000 He's asking the voice.

00:37:40.920 No, I, the intro is a guy that I hired 10 years ago from Fiverr.

00:37:46.080 And I said, this is what I wrote the script.

00:37:47.760 I'm like, this is what I want you to read.

00:37:49.480 I don't even know who he is.

00:37:50.960 He did a wonderful job 10 years ago.

00:37:54.180 Is that what he means?

00:37:55.100 Do you think?

00:37:55.620 Yeah, I think that's, I mean, that's the only person I could think of that.

00:37:59.080 Read it one more time.

00:38:01.480 Okay.

00:38:01.840 Does the man whose voice has been on even more episodes than Ryan's voice listen to

00:38:07.800 the podcast?

00:38:09.200 I has to be that.

00:38:10.160 Oh, I don't know.

00:38:13.460 He should, if he doesn't, he should actually be.

00:38:17.420 Now that I think I never thought about this, he should be proud actually that he did that

00:38:21.680 intro because it's pretty, I don't, I'm not tooting my own horn here, but it's pretty

00:38:26.680 amazing for him to be on over a hundred million downloads that his voice has been.

00:38:33.580 I've never thought about that.

00:38:34.900 He probably doesn't even know.

00:38:36.300 He might not even know, but if he does, does he get a little smile every time the podcast

00:38:40.920 comes on and it's him?

00:38:42.180 I don't know.

00:38:43.220 Yeah.

00:38:43.580 Maybe I should go back and like reach out to him.

00:38:46.000 That's interesting.

00:38:46.620 Now I'm thinking about this question.

00:38:48.840 Interesting.

00:38:49.200 That'd be funny.

00:38:50.480 I keep us updated.

00:38:52.680 So John, the rock man, Johnson had a similar question from before.

00:38:57.040 I'll, I'll read it to see if you would add anything to his question.

00:39:01.220 His question is how to deal with that moment when you realize your dad isn't superhuman,

00:39:07.620 but just a man like you.

00:39:09.360 Conversely, how do you react to that same moment when your son's making the realization about

00:39:14.340 you?

00:39:14.600 And it's kind of that pedestal question earlier on the dynamic of father and son.

00:39:19.200 That's an awesome day.

00:39:23.240 That's such a good day.

00:39:24.480 When you realize your dad isn't a superhero.

00:39:26.920 Most people would say that's a bad day.

00:39:28.800 No, it isn't.

00:39:29.920 It means you can actually have a real relationship with your dad now because you could never have

00:39:33.700 fully a real relationship when he was Superman to you because it was always distorted through

00:39:39.080 these rose colored glasses.

00:39:41.200 Yeah.

00:39:41.440 But now, and that's going to happen when you're older and the beauty of getting older,

00:39:44.640 my dad's passed away now.

00:39:46.340 But the beauty of getting older, I guess I assume you really have a lot of these adult

00:39:51.540 conversations with my dad.

00:39:52.840 That's one thing I wish I would have been able to do.

00:39:54.980 But from where I sit anyways, it would be really cool to have a father-son relationship as two

00:40:02.620 adults where you're not idolizing him and you can see his humanity.

00:40:08.500 And, you know, when my dad passed away, I really won't get into the story right now.

00:40:13.760 And I've shared it before, but I didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to my dad.

00:40:17.560 I had 30 minutes that I missed, a 30 minute window that I missed him by.

00:40:21.720 And as I thought about what I would have said if, if I knew he was going to die,

00:40:33.820 I actually would have apologized for not giving him the grace that as a man he deserved.

00:40:44.180 He didn't get it all right, but he deserves some grace that I didn't give him.

00:40:54.560 So I do now, but that's pales in comparison to being able to do that face to face.

00:41:02.720 But yeah, that's a good day.

00:41:04.880 Now you can have a real conversation.

00:41:06.620 And regarding the relationship with your son,

00:41:09.140 you should always be talking to your children about your own deficiencies.

00:41:12.900 It should not be a day where they realize that because they already know dad's human and he's flawed.

00:41:18.780 And when he messes up, he fixes it.

00:41:20.280 And he says, I'm sorry.

00:41:21.900 And he talks to us about the lessons he's learned.

00:41:24.400 So I don't think as a, as a father myself, I don't try to put myself on a pedestal.

00:41:30.820 I do say sorry to my kids.

00:41:32.780 I do tell them things I'm working on.

00:41:35.680 And I do say what needs to be said.

00:41:39.880 So they, they realize like, I'm not perfect.

00:41:41.880 And they know that they see it.

00:41:43.660 I might as well acknowledge it.

00:41:45.560 Well, and, and now you're in a position that you model how you fix things.

00:41:49.960 I, I always think about this when I apologize to my kids.

00:41:53.260 Cause I don't want to whenever I do.

00:41:55.840 Yeah.

00:41:56.500 Full disclosure.

00:41:57.980 But I think, no, they need, they need to, they need to see what an apology looks like.

00:42:04.940 And, and that even me, I make mistakes and I clean them up and I say, Hey son, really quick, come over here.

00:42:12.880 I got mad at you and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry about getting a little too upset.

00:42:19.320 And we talk through it.

00:42:21.200 That's good for him.

00:42:23.340 Right.

00:42:23.820 Not just me.

00:42:25.300 I am luckily in this phase right now.

00:42:27.660 Like, I feel like I'm in this phase right now with my three oldest boys and it is actually super fun.

00:42:34.480 Yeah.

00:42:34.660 I don't think those three boys think I'm on some pedestal at all.

00:42:38.500 And, and I almost feel like I'm just talking to another adult male that is kind of a friend.

00:42:46.400 I mean, don't get me wrong.

00:42:47.820 I love them more than I'd love a friend, but it's, it's different and it's, and it's great.

00:42:53.940 And they're way more open to talking with me about things than they've ever been because of that.

00:43:00.720 You know, and my son, he's down in Vegas doing some electrical work and he has some circumstances

00:43:08.680 he's dealing with, with a, you know, moron coworker and, and he's like, dad, this guy's

00:43:16.020 out of control.

00:43:16.680 Right.

00:43:17.200 And it's like, got it.

00:43:18.140 Like, why, why do people, why do people drink?

00:43:20.420 What do you think he's trying to suppress?

00:43:22.700 Hmm.

00:43:23.640 Right.

00:43:23.920 What is he dealing with?

00:43:24.780 How do, how do we navigate that?

00:43:26.160 Right.

00:43:26.720 And, and we're, I'm just, I'm sharing examples or suggestions to him that I share no different

00:43:32.040 than with anybody else.

00:43:33.800 You know, the fact that he's my son makes no difference.

00:43:36.620 It's the same conversation, you know, and we're more relatable to him because of it.

00:43:40.800 So it's a, it's a beautiful thing when your kids, I think when they get to the phase of,

00:43:45.560 of seeing you for who you are.

00:43:46.940 It is interesting to me that we, as men, won't acknowledge our own shortcomings as if other

00:43:56.240 people don't see it because we don't acknowledge it.

00:43:59.680 Totally.

00:44:00.380 They all know it.

00:44:01.040 Do you really think you're hiding something by not bringing it to the table?

00:44:04.860 They already know you're an asshole.

00:44:06.460 They already know you're impatient.

00:44:07.760 They already know how short tempered you are.

00:44:09.420 They already know what your vices are.

00:44:10.860 So you might as well just acknowledge it.

00:44:15.080 And I think that's respectable, whether it's the woman in your life or children or friends

00:44:20.860 where you can acknowledge what's going on and share your plans to rectify it.

00:44:28.480 And then as long as you're following through, I think it's something that's pretty respectable

00:44:31.500 from other people.

00:44:33.160 Yeah.

00:44:34.120 Kids included.

00:44:36.520 Mitchell Snyder, serious question.

00:44:39.280 Full disclosure.

00:44:39.980 What are you guys doing to prepare for the fact millions of men will lose their jobs

00:44:45.440 to AI in automation and robots in the next two to 10 years?

00:44:51.380 So what are you guys doing to prepare?

00:44:53.880 Yeah.

00:44:54.140 I don't know why you would say serious question.

00:44:55.940 I think that, yes, absolutely.

00:44:58.560 Yeah.

00:44:58.720 That's a legitimate concern.

00:45:00.600 And it has been forever.

00:45:03.100 Yep.

00:45:03.480 I hope we all can acknowledge that.

00:45:05.520 AI might be new technology, but the phenomenon of getting replaced by cheaper, smarter, faster,

00:45:11.500 more efficient is not anything new.

00:45:13.800 It's always been a threat.

00:45:15.100 Yeah.

00:45:15.500 Right.

00:45:16.140 So stay out ahead of it.

00:45:17.980 When I was doing financial planning, the big thing when I got started was the rise of

00:45:22.600 what we would call robo-advisors.

00:45:24.540 And a robo-advisor is an online platform or app that tells you how to rebalance your portfolio

00:45:31.540 or how much to put or even budgeting software and tools that if you spend $10.43 at the

00:45:39.520 gas station, it automatically rounds up to 11 and puts that into an investment fund.

00:45:44.180 These are all robo-advisors.

00:45:45.520 They're advising you with your money, but they're doing it in automated and now driven

00:45:49.380 through AI.

00:45:50.720 And I saw the writing on the wall.

00:45:53.380 Like I saw what was happening.

00:45:54.800 And I talked with a lot of veteran advisors, the old timers who did not even see it.

00:45:59.980 They weren't even aware of it.

00:46:01.140 They wouldn't even, and even if they were, they would not acknowledge it.

00:46:03.280 No, no, no, no, no.

00:46:04.380 You know who else is notorious for this?

00:46:07.120 Attorneys, CPAs, doctors, highly educated people can be very dumb when it comes to this

00:46:13.520 and very ignorant.

00:46:14.240 They think because they have a degree or specialized education that they're impenetrable from AI.

00:46:21.840 And the reality is you're not.

00:46:23.060 Lawyers are the first people to go.

00:46:24.400 CPAs, are you kidding me?

00:46:25.840 I can just scan all my documents into the computer and it could automatically, with precision,

00:46:31.940 evaluate every little loophole, every tax code, current tax code without any sort of user

00:46:37.440 error at all.

00:46:38.800 If you're a CPA, you better be shaking in your boots.

00:46:41.920 Same thing with an attorney.

00:46:43.000 What we really need to realize is where's the creation?

00:46:48.180 Where is your creation?

00:46:50.140 And I think that's one of the things that AI is clearly lagging behind on, and I'm not

00:46:55.240 sure we'll ever be able to do what a human being can do.

00:46:58.280 So, for example, this podcast, I can automate editing.

00:47:05.000 I can even have AI write a script for me.

00:47:08.640 That's not the issue.

00:47:10.680 The issue is, can I be empathetic?

00:47:12.940 The issue is, can I get men together face-to-face, shoulder-to-shoulder?

00:47:16.680 The issue is, can we identify problems that are on a human level that are outside of coding

00:47:22.080 and numbers and zeros and ones?

00:47:24.020 And more men need to start looking into that.

00:47:27.140 If you're a doctor, there's going to be systems that you're going to stand in front of a scanner,

00:47:34.420 and it's going to scan your entire body, and it's going to tell you you have a likelihood

00:47:39.340 based on your DNA of having this type of cancer, or we've identified these precancerous cells,

00:47:45.660 we've identified these viruses or this bacteria in your body, here's what we prescribe.

00:47:49.880 Are you kidding me?

00:47:51.000 Like, if you don't believe that's going to happen, you're an idiot or just ignorant to it.

00:47:56.680 Totally.

00:47:57.180 So, the reality then is not as a doctor to prescribe.

00:48:01.180 That's not the value.

00:48:03.080 Your bedside manner and your relationship with your patients is.

00:48:07.240 So, yeah, AI might be able to tell you what's wrong with you and give you the prescription,

00:48:11.540 but now you become a medical coach where you're encouraging this patient to follow their treatment plan.

00:48:18.820 You're checking in with your patient to make sure that they're not just doing good physically,

00:48:23.080 but mentally and emotionally.

00:48:25.000 The more that you can create to our human level as opposed to just diagnostic,

00:48:29.320 the better off all of us are going to be.

00:48:31.560 Yeah.

00:48:32.220 It's all about the human connection.

00:48:35.860 I've done consulting, IT consulting for, I don't know, 20 plus years.

00:48:40.360 And it's interesting how often we think, and it's all about just understanding human behavior.

00:48:49.080 We think, at least from an IT consultant perspective, that the client is paying us to implement said

00:48:56.000 technology, right?

00:48:56.920 It's like, okay, I'm going to pay these guys.

00:48:58.400 They're going to implement the technology.

00:48:59.540 And as long as we implement technology to spec, project's successful.

00:49:06.260 Well, could the client maybe figure it out on their own?

00:49:10.240 Actually, they could.

00:49:12.000 So, what is it that they're paying us to do then?

00:49:15.860 Ah, they're paying for the peace of mind.

00:49:18.760 They're paying to offload the stress of making sure it's done right.

00:49:24.120 They're building for confidence that it's being done correctly, right?

00:49:27.900 Like, it's so much more than just the tech itself.

00:49:32.160 I always use this analogy, and I always say this, too, because I can never remember the

00:49:37.940 study, so I won't reference it very well.

00:49:40.140 But there was a study around the number one detractors to malpractice for physicians.

00:49:46.500 Number one, what do you think it is?

00:49:49.600 Likeability.

00:49:52.340 Not quality of work, not anything else.

00:49:56.500 It was, was my physician likable?

00:50:00.000 And let me say it even this way.

00:50:02.000 How often do you like someone that you don't think likes you?

00:50:04.860 So, really, when we say likability, what we're saying is, they like me.

00:50:09.200 My physician likes me, and I like them.

00:50:12.060 And that is the number one deterrent to malpractice lawsuits.

00:50:17.680 It's no different than anything else in life.

00:50:19.700 Yeah, we're humans.

00:50:21.980 It's the human element of it that needs to be addressed.

00:50:25.260 And then embrace it.

00:50:26.760 You got to embrace it.

00:50:27.580 So, like, specifically to Mitchell's question, right?

00:50:30.980 Like, do I use AI?

00:50:32.460 Absolutely.

00:50:33.800 Of course.

00:50:33.920 I use it all the time.

00:50:35.260 And I will continue to stay in front of it.

00:50:38.340 Why?

00:50:38.720 Because I need to know how to take advantage of it.

00:50:41.600 And then I need to pivot, right, based upon what it does really well.

00:50:46.140 And I got to be willing to let go of, oh, man, I used to do that really well, but this does it better.

00:50:50.860 So, I'm going to let go of that skill and those duties, and I'm going to focus on another area instead.

00:50:57.560 And so, our ability to pivot is critical.

00:51:01.020 There's an analogy I've used in the past regarding construction workers.

00:51:05.520 You know, all we used to have is probably a wooden hammer, and then it became a metal hammer.

00:51:09.420 And then we got introduced to hydraulic nail guns.

00:51:12.740 Imagine a carpenter saying, I'm not going to use that nail gun because I do it the real way.

00:51:17.460 And it threatens my job, so I'm not going to do it.

00:51:20.540 Or you could use the nail gun and build 10 times the houses that you did last year and put people into –

00:51:27.260 because isn't that really what you want to do?

00:51:28.760 Put people into beautifully and articulately constructed homes so they can build families out of?

00:51:33.980 Isn't that the goal?

00:51:35.300 Yeah.

00:51:35.520 So, imagine if you could do that at 10 times the rate.

00:51:37.740 I will say, though, there is going to be somewhat of a demand for the old way of doing things,

00:51:45.100 but it's going to become a lot more boutique and specific and expensive than the new way of doing things.

00:51:54.140 You know, I think about cars, for example.

00:51:56.020 At some point, we're all going to be driving electric cars.

00:51:58.940 They're all going to be self-automated.

00:52:01.120 They're going to propel themselves down the highway without us having to do much work.

00:52:04.440 But I think there will always be a market for my 76 international carbureted truck,

00:52:11.740 just not to the degree that it is right now.

00:52:13.840 Because some people are just going to want to pay a little extra and smell that carburetor

00:52:18.200 and smell that fuel and feel that horsepower and be able to press on the brake

00:52:22.820 and press on the gas and turn the wheel.

00:52:25.180 So, there will always be a market for that,

00:52:27.080 but it's going to be significantly and drastically reduced.

00:52:31.660 I'll say one more thing on this.

00:52:33.640 When I was doing my financial planning stuff,

00:52:35.680 I always thought my job was to coach people about money.

00:52:40.980 But everybody knows the principles of money.

00:52:43.860 Every single person on the planet.

00:52:45.420 We all know because we interact with it so often that those rules have just become embedded.

00:52:49.320 The degree to which you implement those rules is the real question.

00:52:53.460 So, my job was never about teaching people the rules of money.

00:52:57.800 My job, and this is where I got really good at my business,

00:53:00.520 is I became a coach of people and their behaviors.

00:53:04.140 Because if I said, what's the first rule of investing,

00:53:06.980 10 out of 10 people could say, buy low, sell high.

00:53:10.100 But 9 out of 10 people do not do that.

00:53:13.540 They buy high and they sell low.

00:53:15.340 So, my job became, I have to manage you, not your money.

00:53:20.200 You're the problem.

00:53:21.700 The money is not the issue.

00:53:23.000 It's you.

00:53:23.860 And that's where we make ourselves invaluable.

00:53:27.180 And just to reiterate, this is so important.

00:53:30.280 Because literally, I had this conversation with a project team last week,

00:53:34.360 struggling on a project.

00:53:36.060 And they're all doubling down on the tech.

00:53:39.440 And I'm like, this is all about the relationship.

00:53:43.680 This is all about managing expectation.

00:53:46.560 No, no, no.

00:53:46.900 This is how we do UAT.

00:53:48.260 No, did you manage and set the expectation that that's what it looks like for them?

00:53:53.980 Oh, no, no.

00:53:54.480 But this is how it's done.

00:53:55.480 They don't know that.

00:53:57.060 We don't know.

00:53:58.040 I don't know.

00:53:58.800 You got to manage those expectations, right?

00:54:01.520 They're not going to know these things.

00:54:03.000 And whenever you change something or you don't meet my expectation, whether it's true, right,

00:54:09.200 wrong, or indifferent, if it shows up differently than what I expected, we have a problem.

00:54:15.320 Even if you did it perfect.

00:54:17.260 It's all about managing the human behavior and the expectations of it.

00:54:21.440 It's crazy.

00:54:23.120 But we get our blinders on and we're like, oh, no, no, I did the thing.

00:54:27.100 And it's like, no, you're dealing with humans.

00:54:29.660 This is way more complex than that.

00:54:31.260 You know, I think I think educated people are at greater risk for those reasons.

00:54:35.980 They think their education makes them impervious to it.

00:54:39.240 You know, I'll give you one other example.

00:54:40.540 We got to drive on the next question.

00:54:41.740 But a real world example is I've hired a marketing firm to help me with some digital marketing

00:54:46.260 for order of man.

00:54:47.900 And it's just data.

00:54:51.700 We can look at two ads and say that one did better than that one.

00:54:55.220 Yeah, that's it's just data.

00:54:57.580 Facebook does it.

00:54:58.700 All the algorithms do it.

00:55:00.080 That's not anything they're doing.

00:55:02.040 I'm not dumb.

00:55:02.980 I'm not unaware that they're just interpreting data.

00:55:05.800 But where I get a lot of value from them is when they when we have our calls, we have

00:55:11.400 a weekly call and they explain it to me and they tell me why it is the way it is or why

00:55:17.380 this ad might take a little longer or why it would be important to start doing this ad

00:55:21.960 now, even though it might not really generate revenue until 90 days from now.

00:55:26.960 Like, it's the relationship to your point.

00:55:29.300 It's not the data.

00:55:30.960 Yeah, they're they're they're worse with the data than the computer could be.

00:55:36.360 So let the computer do its thing and let's us focus on the human interaction and relationship.

00:55:42.340 Yeah, that's great.

00:55:44.620 Elijah Fisher, girl dad here.

00:55:47.040 What are some important tips in raising daughters?

00:55:49.260 I have two small girls.

00:55:50.600 One is four and the other will be six months.

00:55:53.060 I hear a lot of good advice around boys, but does anyone have good insights on raising

00:55:57.980 girls?

00:55:58.720 Thanks.

00:56:00.160 I don't know, man.

00:56:01.940 I'm I'm struggling.

00:56:03.420 I've got 11 year old daughter and the dynamic, full disclosure, the dynamics hard because she's

00:56:09.540 with her mom and then she's with me and the rules are probably slightly different and the

00:56:14.980 expectations are maybe not clear.

00:56:17.880 And I would like to hear your answer to this question because I don't feel like I'm in a

00:56:22.620 position to say, here's what you should do, because I clearly do not have this figured

00:56:26.820 out.

00:56:27.700 Yeah, I'll I'll use my daughter Kalani as an example of I think what works well.

00:56:34.980 So for whatever reason, her and my wife, they butt heads.

00:56:40.240 You've told us that.

00:56:41.420 Yeah, I've heard you say that before.

00:56:43.160 They get super after each other.

00:56:44.920 They both get triggered, including including my wife.

00:56:48.020 And for whatever reason, when they when that happens, I have a flood of empathy.

00:56:56.320 I think God knows that, like, hey, someone's got to have some empathy here.

00:57:00.020 And so I get clear minded and I'm like, I see the circumstance.

00:57:04.160 No big deal.

00:57:05.260 And I usually don't get drawn in.

00:57:07.400 Luckily.

00:57:08.100 Right.

00:57:08.380 So and I think it's a dynamic.

00:57:10.100 I'm sure you've seen that in your marriage where, like, when when someone's running hot,

00:57:15.300 all of a sudden you'll counter it with a little bit of cold, you know, to try to balance out

00:57:19.100 the family dynamic.

00:57:20.760 Anyhow, I have to be very slow and like, honey, explain how you feel a lot.

00:57:31.820 And why why would you feel that way?

00:57:33.740 Because of this.

00:57:34.480 Well, is that is that true or is that what you're assuming she's thinking?

00:57:40.620 Yeah.

00:57:40.980 And and it doesn't take I can't do it quick.

00:57:44.700 It requires a whole sit down.

00:57:46.340 And I feel like I'm wasting like an hour talking.

00:57:51.580 But it has this big margin of conversation that has to happen.

00:57:56.520 And it's super in the space of like, I feel like I'm being way more sensitive and super

00:58:03.400 empathetic where I'm not placing any judgment whatsoever because it will just trigger her

00:58:08.640 worse.

00:58:09.120 And now I'm against her as well.

00:58:10.820 Kind of thing.

00:58:13.580 But but it's really like I just a lot of it is just emotional regulation is what I feel

00:58:21.200 like I'm doing most of the time when they're a little sideways around how do they feel and

00:58:25.800 why do they feel that way and helping them see the difference of what they've interpreted

00:58:30.120 versus reality and then reminding them because they're they have superpowers.

00:58:34.820 I think my daughters and my wife have superpowers in the space of emotional connection.

00:58:42.420 And so I capitalize on that.

00:58:44.640 Do you think mom is intentionally trying to make you mad?

00:58:49.520 Do you think she's trying to be trying to do the right thing?

00:58:52.820 And the first answer has got to be yes.

00:58:55.600 She's doing it deliberately.

00:58:57.240 It's got to be yes.

00:58:58.400 Yeah.

00:58:58.680 And she has said that a couple of times.

00:59:00.020 She's like, oh, she's totally doing it on purpose.

00:59:02.180 But I'm like, but really, she's not.

00:59:04.980 Right.

00:59:05.240 And we're not perfect.

00:59:06.340 Going back to the questions that we said earlier, some of our responses earlier around,

00:59:11.260 you know, we're all human.

00:59:12.560 We're making mistakes.

00:59:14.300 There's more going on.

00:59:16.060 You know, she might be having a bad day because of X, Y, Z.

00:59:19.180 And you don't even know about that.

00:59:20.800 Right.

00:59:21.080 And so I doubled down on helping them use their superpower of empathy and emotional connection

00:59:27.180 to kind of get aligned.

00:59:29.680 Other than that, we try to just embrace how loving and caring they are.

00:59:36.940 And I but I don't know a lot of that stuff would be any different for a girl than a boy.

00:59:41.740 Right.

00:59:42.320 Other than just the empathetic side.

00:59:44.520 Yeah.

00:59:44.700 I like it for what it's worth.

00:59:50.180 Carlos Del Campo.

00:59:52.640 What are some tips for learning to not need the validation of others, those outside your

00:59:57.660 most inner circle tips for learning to not need validation from others?

01:00:04.780 Yeah, I would just say, are you are you dialed in and are you aware of what you're good at

01:00:09.040 and what you're not good at?

01:00:09.900 So we can look at the realm of of finances, look at the realm of your fitness, connections

01:00:17.640 and relationships, your intelligence, your purpose.

01:00:20.700 I think if you're tied to a purpose, you're less likely to be subject to the whims of other

01:00:26.040 people and how they feel about you because you so you're so clear on what your purpose

01:00:29.760 is that you're not easily distracted or dissuaded from what you think is important.

01:00:34.260 But when you start locking in everything, you're eating right, you're working out every day.

01:00:41.100 And I would also say maybe the root is this.

01:00:46.380 If we strip everything else away, maybe the way you begin to validate yourself is by keeping

01:00:53.740 the commitments to yourself on a daily basis.

01:00:55.520 So if last night you said, I'm going to wake up at 530 tomorrow and I'm going to go into

01:01:02.960 the gym and work out.

01:01:03.980 If you do that, you will need less validation from others today than you did the day before.

01:01:08.920 And then if you do that for 30 days in a row or 365 days in a row, nothing anybody says

01:01:15.400 to you about your fitness or strength or the way you look is going to be an issue.

01:01:20.080 It's when we fall short of our commitments that we start to question who we are as people

01:01:28.680 because we're out of integrity.

01:01:30.180 And so those little chinks in the armor can be exposed through other people.

01:01:34.900 And we think that if somebody says, oh, no, no, no, you look good, that it substitutes actually

01:01:41.360 doing the work to look good.

01:01:45.860 But if you look good and you know you do and you know how hard you've worked, you don't

01:01:48.780 need somebody to tell you that.

01:01:49.680 It's nice when they do, but you don't need it.

01:01:52.980 I would also say that the more options you give yourself, the less inclined you are to

01:01:57.300 be reliant on one person's opinion of you.

01:02:00.900 So if you have multiple opportunities to create and build wealth or multiple career paths that

01:02:06.240 you can take and your boss asks you to do something or thinks less of you or asks you to jeopardize

01:02:10.740 your morals or asks you to stay late, you're not beholden to that.

01:02:14.860 You get to live the life that you want because you have the options to do something else outside

01:02:20.520 of what other people want you to do.

01:02:23.620 So create options.

01:02:24.960 And by the way, that goes back to living in integrity.

01:02:27.440 You create options by living in integrity.

01:02:30.480 Living in integrity, for example, when it comes to finances is if you say I'm going to budget,

01:02:34.480 I'm going to save money.

01:02:35.340 It means you don't go get yourself an energy drink and a breakfast burrito, which is something

01:02:41.700 I like to do.

01:02:43.400 But you're not going to do that because you're not interested in spending the $5 or $6 because

01:02:46.900 you're taking that money and you're saving that towards something else.

01:02:50.220 And when you're in alignment that way, now you have $5 a day, $25 a week, $100 a month,

01:02:55.500 $1,200 a year with interest makes it $1,400.

01:02:58.020 So over three, four years, all of a sudden you've got $4,500, $4,700 that might be a deposit

01:03:05.260 on a truck.

01:03:07.180 Or you might be able to pay off that medical debt that's been hanging over your head for

01:03:10.380 the past five or six years.

01:03:12.540 So all of these little decisions matter because they create a sense of sovereignty and a sense

01:03:18.300 of integrity.

01:03:19.660 And when you have sovereignty and integrity, you're untouchable.

01:03:24.020 You really are.

01:03:24.660 Well, and when we're out of integrity, it has to be justified for you to live with yourself.

01:03:31.340 And so not only like if we're in integrity, we get this benefit.

01:03:36.180 But when we're out of integrity, man, it's a slippery slope because the minute I start

01:03:42.280 practicing self-betrayal, I have to excuse it.

01:03:46.100 So now I'll start allocating blame.

01:03:48.160 I'll start excusing it.

01:03:50.340 I'll like, you know, one of the questions earlier around having empathy, and I thought

01:03:55.580 about this, but I didn't share.

01:03:56.780 It's like, it's a lot easier to be empathetic when you're in integrity.

01:04:03.500 It's hard to do when you're out of integrity because you're lashing out at everybody when

01:04:10.880 you're out of integrity.

01:04:11.660 And you're looking to control things and you're looking to allocate blame to justify your way

01:04:17.340 of showing up.

01:04:18.100 I mean, it gets, it gets wild.

01:04:20.220 It's crazy on how sideways you can get when you're practicing what I like.

01:04:26.700 I love this phrase when you're practicing self-betrayal, you're betraying yourself.

01:04:31.220 It's, it's great.

01:04:32.400 There's one other thing, and this, this is a effort that I'm not great at, but I realized

01:04:39.760 when I do, when I do this, that it seems to be better is we all, we've already talked

01:04:47.520 about at length today about how people are flawed.

01:04:49.760 And when you're seeking validation from a mentor or a boss or a woman or your children, it's

01:04:58.080 inferior to seeking a source of validation that is perfect, which is Christ.

01:05:07.460 It's, it's a perfect source of validation because it's not flawed and it's immovable and it's

01:05:14.240 steadfast like a rock and it will always be there.

01:05:17.600 And it's not biased and it's doesn't justify its own behavior, his own behavior.

01:05:24.240 It's, it's perfect.

01:05:25.800 And I, like I said, I'm not great at this, but the times that I've been the most spiritual

01:05:31.000 in my life are also happen to be the times where I need less outside validation because

01:05:36.260 I know where my, I know who I am.

01:05:39.500 I know what potential I have and I'm striving to live in integrity with it.

01:05:43.820 Yeah, that's great.

01:05:46.140 All right.

01:05:46.680 Last question.

01:05:47.600 Well, actually, uh, well, you have two, if we can get to these.

01:05:50.840 All right.

01:05:51.080 Billy, uh, Billy Joe.

01:05:53.740 It's been a while, Billy, actually.

01:05:55.680 Um, in January, your episode with Brandon, uh, Mancini, which was a nugget filled one.

01:06:02.960 You mentioned your son doing powerlifting and the role his coach played with both your growth

01:06:07.360 in it.

01:06:07.960 I'm a high school power lifter.

01:06:09.420 I am a high school powerlifting coach here in New Mexico.

01:06:13.680 What, what was it that made the coach so impactful to you as a parent and for your son?

01:06:19.820 Those numbers you put on are very impressive.

01:06:22.440 Thank you, Ryan and Kip.

01:06:23.820 Stay strong.

01:06:24.560 Thank you again for helping and helping in the course correction of my life.

01:06:30.000 Always grateful, a life saved by the IC in order of man.

01:06:34.200 Yeah, that's awesome.

01:06:35.400 Yeah.

01:06:35.600 Well, cool.

01:06:36.140 I'm, I'm glad you're power.

01:06:37.420 You're doing some coaching for your kids for powerlifting.

01:06:40.080 Cause that was really transformative for Breckin.

01:06:43.460 Um, I think, I think as a dad, the thing that I'm, I got right, and I've got a lot of wrong,

01:06:49.860 a lot wrong on this, but the thing I got right with him and his coach is that I honored their

01:06:54.380 relationship and a lot of men won't do that because it's threatening.

01:07:02.180 And there were times where my oldest son Breckin would come home and he would talk about coach

01:07:07.900 more and how good he was and how wonderful and how amazing and how strong.

01:07:12.860 And I had to sit there and listen to it and it wasn't a personal indictment, but I took

01:07:18.740 it that way.

01:07:19.540 Sure.

01:07:20.020 Of course I was like, well, he, but he can't do X, Y, and Z.

01:07:25.040 Right.

01:07:25.560 Yeah.

01:07:26.960 But I realized pretty quickly that his coach was a good man and that if I want my children

01:07:34.780 to be good people, they're going to need to have outside influences, I, in fact, it's

01:07:41.380 a, it's a requirement if I'm their dad, cause they're going to need a lot of work outside

01:07:45.120 of what I can offer them.

01:07:46.520 Yeah.

01:07:47.460 So I honored their relationship by thanking their coach, by speaking publicly about their

01:07:55.800 coach, by not ever throwing his coach under the bus.

01:08:01.320 You know, if Breckin would come home and maybe he would be upset about something regarding

01:08:07.580 powerlifting, I would say, well, what does your coach think about it?

01:08:10.080 I don't know.

01:08:12.160 Or if you had an issue, well, did you talk with coach more?

01:08:15.320 No.

01:08:16.300 Well, why are you talking to me about it?

01:08:17.900 I don't know, but I trusted him.

01:08:20.640 And if my son would go talk to him, I knew coach more would shoot straight with him.

01:08:24.780 So I think that's the best thing you can do as a parent when there's a good coaching relationship

01:08:30.240 is to honor it, edify it and support it.

01:08:33.980 And don't undermine it.

01:08:36.360 From the coaching perspective, the thing I liked about coach more, probably more than

01:08:40.960 anything is, well, a lot of things.

01:08:43.040 He was very knowledgeable.

01:08:44.300 So he had the credibility to coach these kids.

01:08:47.180 And he was very strict, but he was never an asshole, but very strict.

01:08:55.080 Like, hey, we're not joking around.

01:08:56.640 This is not a joke.

01:08:57.500 Like, here's the proper way to do it.

01:08:58.960 He would call the kids out, but he always did it from a place of, I care about you,

01:09:03.260 which is why I'm holding you accountable.

01:09:05.640 And he never let my son or any child that I saw him coach, he never let them slack.

01:09:11.060 And then there's a picture I have where my son was at a powerlifting meet.

01:09:14.980 It's probably one of his first ones.

01:09:16.220 And I took the picture.

01:09:17.880 I think he was either doing it.

01:09:18.840 I think he was doing a deadlift.

01:09:20.360 And I have my son locked out at the deadlift, probably hit a PR because he was really,

01:09:24.940 really good at all of those things.

01:09:26.320 And I took this picture and later I looked at it and I saw behind him, his coach, there's

01:09:32.040 a curtain behind the stage in these powerlifting meets, but there's enough of a separation in

01:09:36.660 the curtain where the coach can observe the lift to, to, to judge.

01:09:40.380 And coach was like squatted down and he was watching, but he was like smiling.

01:09:45.540 Like you could see the emotion and the excitement as my son pulled that deadlift and you could

01:09:53.000 see how, like how excited he was.

01:09:55.820 And I think that was one of the best things about it is not that he lived vicariously

01:10:00.040 through him, but that he relished in relish is probably not the right word.

01:10:07.020 He was as excited when his athletes performed to their capability as the athlete was themselves.

01:10:15.780 And those were things that I will never forget about him.

01:10:18.560 He's a great guy and a great coach.

01:10:20.160 All right.

01:10:22.960 Steve Terrell, why don't many men support their friends during hospital stays?

01:10:27.840 Is it because we don't like to be reminded that we are not invincible?

01:10:34.980 Yeah, probably.

01:10:36.180 Also, what do you want me to do?

01:10:38.360 I mean, I'm, that might be a little harsh, but Kip, if you're in the hospital and you're

01:10:43.700 like, Hey, I have a broken leg or something, I'm like, cool.

01:10:46.500 I'll come and like, say, Hey dude, feel better.

01:10:50.880 But then like, I don't know what you want me to do.

01:10:54.360 You know what I mean?

01:10:55.600 I also think like, if I'm in the hospital, I don't want anybody to be burdened by me.

01:11:01.440 I'm hung up.

01:11:02.560 I've pride myself on being a man of value.

01:11:05.000 And now I'm just mooching off of everybody.

01:11:07.600 So I think that's probably a dynamic that is taken into consideration as well.

01:11:13.820 You know, it's like, I don't know.

01:11:16.140 I just don't think we're that, that close or really understand the softer side of being

01:11:22.400 a friend.

01:11:23.180 If you said Kip to me, you said, Hey man, will you help me come move?

01:11:27.140 Like, yeah, of course.

01:11:28.380 Bring my truck.

01:11:29.000 We'll go move.

01:11:30.180 If you said, Hey, I'm in the hospital.

01:11:32.040 Can you come see me?

01:11:32.820 I'd be like, ah, like, are you going to be okay?

01:11:35.340 Are you dying?

01:11:36.000 Like, like how serious is it?

01:11:39.960 And if it's serious, I might, well, how much time do we have?

01:11:42.820 I mean, like, like, are you terminal?

01:11:45.400 Like, do you have like today or like what it, what is, what's the prognosis here?

01:11:49.900 I don't actually know, but I can see, I can see some truth to your statement for sure.

01:11:54.980 Totally.

01:11:55.380 What do you think?

01:11:56.480 I'm laughing because it's, it's weird.

01:11:58.540 It's totally true.

01:11:59.620 I have, I have a brother that's not doing very well.

01:12:02.620 And, uh, and I was talking with one of my older brothers and said, Hey, you know, should

01:12:07.580 we go, should we go down and visit him?

01:12:09.340 And he's like, well, there's nothing for us to do.

01:12:13.700 Exactly.

01:12:14.500 Exactly.

01:12:16.060 So our, his default was, Oh, go help.

01:12:19.500 Well, there's nothing to help with.

01:12:21.320 Right.

01:12:22.060 Right.

01:12:22.340 And then I was like, yeah, you're right.

01:12:24.000 And then I was like, we could just have lunch.

01:12:29.720 And, and both of us were like kind of awkward.

01:12:32.400 Right.

01:12:32.720 We're like, well, yeah, like that doesn't feel as like we should, but we probably should,

01:12:39.040 you know?

01:12:39.740 Right.

01:12:40.240 So it's, it's funny how that is.

01:12:42.280 I think it's just, we moved to let's resolve.

01:12:45.040 Right.

01:12:45.440 And this is something that is going to allow me to resolve or serve.

01:12:49.420 Oh, it's just a visit.

01:12:52.300 And that doesn't come as natural.

01:12:54.260 Right.

01:12:55.500 Yeah.

01:12:56.240 I mean, it gets me thinking, maybe we can, maybe we can game it a little bit more and

01:13:02.340 actually like do something that we feel is doing something.

01:13:07.660 I don't even know what that looks like.

01:13:09.280 Maybe it's, Hey, I'm going to watch the game anyway.

01:13:11.540 So I'm going to come over and we're going to watch the game in, in the room and I'll

01:13:15.140 bring whatever food is appropriate that you can have based on your condition.

01:13:19.700 But I don't, I don't know.

01:13:22.040 Or maybe it's, um, I, I don't even know.

01:13:26.140 That's, that's, I guess that's why it's so hard.

01:13:27.840 I don't even know what that would look like.

01:13:29.960 Yeah.

01:13:31.000 Yeah.

01:13:32.620 Worthy of consideration, I guess.

01:13:35.380 Yeah.

01:13:37.220 I hope he's doing okay.

01:13:38.620 Maybe he's in the hospital.

01:13:39.580 He's like, why isn't anybody coming to see me?

01:13:41.940 So if, if that's why you're asking, I hope you're doing okay.

01:13:45.380 Let us, let us know.

01:13:47.120 We don't know what to do.

01:13:48.260 Let us know if you need anything.

01:13:49.520 We're not going to come visit, but let us know if you need anything.

01:13:51.680 No.

01:13:51.880 Yeah.

01:13:52.540 Yeah.

01:13:53.780 I'd be like, can I just like, I don't know what's your deductible.

01:13:56.660 Can I send you a few hundred dollars or something?

01:13:58.180 Would that be helpful?

01:14:02.580 That's funny.

01:14:03.760 All right, sir.

01:14:04.980 That's a wrap.

01:14:05.800 We've got them all.

01:14:06.160 Yeah.

01:14:06.500 Good.

01:14:06.720 So connect with Mr. Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.

01:14:10.920 Kind of our call to action still is the, the men's forge event.

01:14:16.420 That's themensforge.com coming this May 1st through the 4th.

01:14:21.880 Yep.

01:14:23.520 We'd love to see you there.

01:14:24.400 We got a good, good lineup.

01:14:25.920 We've locked in some speakers, Dr. Robert Glover, Sathya Sam on overcoming pornography

01:14:30.800 addiction, Matt Vincent, Matt Boudreau, Larry Hagner, myself, Connor Beaton with Man Talks.

01:14:37.040 Like it's a pretty powerhouse lineup and we would love to see there.

01:14:40.320 I think we have a few, just a few VIP spots, but you know, even, even if you just wanted

01:14:45.480 to come generally as well, there's a lot of spots available and we'd love to have as

01:14:48.560 many of you there as we can.

01:14:51.080 All right, guys.

01:14:51.880 Well, that's all we've got.

01:14:52.660 Great questions today.

01:14:53.580 There was a few that I, I was stumped.

01:14:55.420 I couldn't answer.

01:14:56.240 So I like those kinds of questions.

01:14:58.180 Hopefully we gave you something to consider.

01:15:01.300 I don't know.

01:15:01.740 That's what we're trying to do.

01:15:02.440 Maybe we're just trying to figure this out for ourselves, which certainly it helps me.

01:15:05.360 So I appreciate the questions.

01:15:07.960 All right, guys, we'll be back on Friday.

01:15:09.580 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:15:17.940 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:15:20.920 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:15:24.940 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - February 19, 2025

The Halo Effect, Putting Your Father on a Pedestal, & Developing Empathy as a Dad ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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