Order of Man - The Hidden Value of Jiu-Jitsu

00:00:00.000 It's no secret that I'm a huge proponent of jujitsu. In fact, I'm sure that you guys get

00:00:04.640 sick of hearing me talk about it on the podcast so much, but I do it because over the past year

00:00:10.580 and a half, I've come to find some incredible value in the practice and seen benefits sometimes

00:00:16.360 hidden and not so obvious of what it offers. My guest today is someone who I've been following

00:00:21.520 for quite some time. His name is Nick Albin. He goes by Chewy and he is a Brazilian jujitsu black

00:00:27.820 belt. Uh, today we discuss the masochistic nature of jujitsu, uh, personal responsibility in

00:00:34.480 training, dialing the intensity of your training, both up and down based on what you're trying to

00:00:40.100 accomplish. Uh, how jujitsu can serve as a therapy session of sorts and the hidden value of the

00:00:46.060 discipline. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:51.480 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily

00:00:57.620 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:04.940 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:10.320 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:15.940 this podcast and the order of man movement. You know, I've been saying something for the past five

00:01:20.620 years. I've been saying that this is a movement that is needed now more than ever. Uh, and I've been

00:01:26.520 talking about how important it is that we as men step up as the protectors, providers, and presiders

00:01:31.920 that we have a moral obligation and responsibility to fulfill. Uh, and it's painfully obvious. It's

00:01:39.800 painful, truthfully painful for a lot of people, uh, how true that statement is. So my mission is to

00:01:47.000 give you everything that you need to be the kind of man that you have a desire to be. And the kind of

00:01:51.540 man that people are relying upon you to be, whether that's your family, your children, your

00:01:55.920 friends, people in the community, neighbors, and everybody else that you might interact

00:02:00.920 with on a daily basis. So we're giving you these conversations, these tools, these resources,

00:02:05.040 uh, and we continue to see the movement grow, which I want to thank you for because you're

00:02:09.900 spreading the word and you're getting this out to the masses. I never thought it would grow

00:02:14.480 to what it has. Uh, when I started just, uh, several years ago, five, five, a little over

00:02:19.540 five years ago now. So I want to thank you for that. And thank you for standing in this

00:02:23.360 battle to reclaim and restore masculinity. It is certainly needed. Uh, I've got a great

00:02:27.580 one lined up for you today, uh, regarding one of my favorite pastimes, jujitsu, which

00:02:31.640 obviously I talk about quite a bit because it is a big part of my life. We're going to get

00:02:36.480 to that in just a minute. Uh, I do want to mention a collaboration that I've been working

00:02:41.580 on with a warrior poet society network. A lot of you guys are already familiar with what

00:02:46.160 they're doing and familiar with this collaboration at this point, because I've got a lot of

00:02:49.160 positive feedback. Uh, but warrior poet society network has essentially put together an exclusive

00:02:54.920 well network, uh, so that you can get as a man, the information that, uh, you need when

00:03:02.840 it comes to self-defense firearms training. But they asked if, uh, I would put out some

00:03:08.400 exclusive order of man content over there. And I will certainly do that. And I have been

00:03:13.140 doing that. And the feedback has been great. So if you want to know what's going on over

00:03:16.380 there, uh, head to order of man.com slash WPSN order of man.com slash WPSN. And I just

00:03:24.560 worked out a discount for you as well. So if you sign up for the network, you can use

00:03:29.800 the code order of man, all one word order of man, and you'll get a 10% discount on your

00:03:35.440 aura, your membership over there again, order of man.com slash WPSN as in warrior poet society

00:03:41.980 network. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Nick Albin. Uh,

00:03:46.720 you might be familiar with him as chewy. Uh, he's like I said earlier, Brazilian jujitsu

00:03:51.040 black belt. And, uh, I came across his work as I was studying and learning and researching

00:03:56.860 jujitsu that takes up some of my day. Uh, I was going to say I'm ashamed to admit, but

00:04:01.460 I'm not because I get a little bit addicted and obsessed over things. So there was a YouTube

00:04:06.880 channel that I came across because he's got an incredible channel. It's filled with ideas

00:04:11.140 and strategies and insights and tactics, the mindsets, uh, for improving your game.

00:04:16.320 And he's been indirectly instrumental in helping me improve my game as I dive deeper, uh, down

00:04:21.480 the rabbit hole of something that, like I said earlier, has become a critical part of my week

00:04:26.060 and life. So gentlemen, I hope you enjoy. All right, brother. We're live now. How are you,

00:04:32.160 man? It's good to see you. I'm, I'm good, man. How are you doing? Good. I think we've been

00:04:35.780 connected in a roundabout way for, I don't know, maybe six months or a year or something

00:04:40.740 like that, but, uh, I've really been inspired by what you do, especially as I got on my

00:04:45.020 own, uh, jujitsu path. So it's good to finally connect. Yeah. What got you into jujitsu?

00:04:50.000 I'm curious. Uh, I had a friend of mine. I was in Southern Utah, uh, up until about a

00:04:55.620 year ago. And, uh, he had been training for roughly 10 years or so. And he'd been talking

00:05:01.440 to me about it over and over again. And then we started running some events together for

00:05:05.500 order of man for what we're doing. And we thought it'd be cool to sprinkle an element

00:05:09.900 of jujitsu into it. So he said, yeah, come train. And so I got into it and then, uh, moved

00:05:15.520 up here to Maine, like I said, about a year ago, uh, and got connected with the origin crew.

00:05:21.340 So I trained with those guys, or at least I did until this whole coronavirus fallout stuff.

00:05:26.800 Yeah. You're connected. You know, these guys up here, don't you?

00:05:29.800 Yeah. I know a little bit about them. I don't know, uh, Pete and all the guys that well,

00:05:33.940 I've talked to Nicole a couple of times and, um, I I've been to Maine several times. Maine's

00:05:38.320 beautiful. Um, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm once all this stuff settles, I'd like to continue to try

00:05:43.800 to pursue a relationship with them. But, uh, uh, in the meantime, it kind of got put on the hold.

00:05:47.600 Yeah. I mean, it's been, it's been rough. Um, in fact, I reached out to Pete the other day and

00:05:51.320 I'm like, Hey man, cause we're, we're friends. Like we see each other every couple of days. I'm like,

00:05:54.460 Hey, I need to get training. Like me and one other guy want to train. What can we go in, in,

00:05:59.080 just like one to two days a week? And then you get after he's like, ah, let me think on that one.

00:06:03.180 So it's still kind of up in the air a little bit, but yeah, I'll get you, I'll get you synced up when

00:06:07.980 things, when things settle down or change a little bit, I'll get you synced up with the guys.

00:06:11.920 Yeah. Cool, man. Absolutely. Yeah. So you've been, I mean, you've been in the game for a while.

00:06:16.320 How long you've been training jujitsu specifically?

00:06:20.140 Jujitsu specifically. So I started training jujitsu back in 2003. So I wrestled for about three years in high

00:06:25.920 school, you know, enjoyed it. And then, um, I wanted to fight and I wanted to continue grappling

00:06:30.740 because I just, I enjoyed that environment for whatever reason, that environment was something

00:06:34.760 that I didn't want to lose because whenever I was, um, training, I was happy as a kid,

00:06:41.920 like I was doing great. And then whenever wrestling season was over, I was kind of pretty much in a

00:06:45.460 funk and slightly depressed. And so when I got back to, when I got into jujitsu, I got a lot of that

00:06:49.920 same vibe from the gyms that I was training at. And so I got, I got hooked right from the beginning

00:06:55.160 back in 2003. So I started in May of 2003. So this month it'll be a 17 years.

00:07:01.580 Yeah, man. You've been going for a while. It's a, how's the body holding up? That's what I'm always

00:07:06.340 curious about. Uh, man, you know, it's honestly right now, knock on wood, the body's better than it

00:07:13.480 has been even when I was in my late twenties, because so like when I was younger, you know, again,

00:07:17.860 we're all young, we're dumb, you know, so we can recover. And you know, when I was younger,

00:07:22.240 the only way that we trained back then was just basically you go hard every time you beat the

00:07:26.720 crap out of your body. Um, rest days are for pussies, that kind of stuff. Right. Right.

00:07:31.400 And then as you get older, you're kind of like, well, maybe there's a more intelligent way to do

00:07:34.820 this. And, um, I started doing some sort of studying into the way that like, like high level

00:07:39.640 athletes train, not jujitsu guys, but like, like other sports where they're paid millions of dollars

00:07:44.800 and they're like, they have people that are like bean counter types that tweak every little

00:07:48.620 nuance thing. How do they train? They don't train hard every day, right? They undulate their training

00:07:53.800 up and down. And so, um, you know, in my early thirties, I started to kind of incorporate that

00:07:58.400 into it where, um, I wouldn't train as hard on some days, some days I would train hard, add a little

00:08:03.060 bit more drilling in specific strength training, things like that, basically giving everything its

00:08:06.760 purpose and not really basically not being a complete masochist and just beating my body up and

00:08:11.340 thinking that's good, but really trying to be purposeful with what I was doing. And, uh, you

00:08:16.200 know, I've been actually more successful in competitions and my body's actually holding up

00:08:20.740 really well. And I, I honestly don't feel like, like when I was like in my, when I was around 29,

00:08:26.040 I was getting to the point where I'd wake up out of bed and I'd be like crawling up the stairs.

00:08:30.060 And I'm thinking like, I'm 29 years old. Is this, is this what awaits me into my, my thirties and

00:08:34.660 forties? And then now, man, like from doing all the different stuff that I do, I feel great. You know,

00:08:38.740 I don't have any problems whatsoever. Yeah, that's good. Cause that's, that's something

00:08:42.080 that's been on my mind. Cause I'm not very long on the path. I've, I've been training for

00:08:46.240 about a year, a little over a year consistently. Uh, and I have some, I think pretty normal things.

00:08:54.140 Like I've never really had to deal with any sort of like medical problems or any injuries or

00:08:57.820 anything like that. I have some, you know, nagging joint pain in the fingers and you know,

00:09:01.820 the shoulder flares up occasionally, but pretty mild stuff. I just want to make sure it's something

00:09:06.580 that I can continue to do. And I don't want to, I don't want to beat myself up just for the sake

00:09:11.340 of beating myself up. Like I want there to be purpose to it. And I want my, to, to train myself,

00:09:16.520 to improve myself physically and have an objective, a meaning and a purpose behind it. Not just to

00:09:21.740 get your ass kicked every time you go in. Yeah. You know, I think most of the time in those senses,

00:09:27.140 I mean, accidents happen and injuries happen. There's no way to avoid that. I mean, we're,

00:09:30.760 our bodies are a decaying structure, right? Slowly, slowly, every so often it just,

00:09:35.680 it withers away to the point where when we get really old, the stuff's just going to break down.

00:09:39.200 Right. Um, but I think in a lot of cases we were our own biggest, worst enemies when it comes to

00:09:45.140 injuries and things like that, because, you know, I don't know what it is about a lot of us, but

00:09:49.700 men tend to almost be masochistic with their bodies. Right. I was talking about that earlier when I was a

00:09:55.240 young man, it was just like, throw it on me. I'll do any crazy workout. I'll beat the hell out of my

00:09:59.800 body because I associate that sort of that pain with, you know, improving and no pain, no gain,

00:10:05.020 that kind of stuff. Right. That's how it was brought up. Right. What most of us were around

00:10:07.920 our age. And then, um, you know, a lot of times as you get older, there's a disconnect because,

00:10:13.300 you know, as our mental facilities, typically we get, we get wiser, we get smarter. We have more

00:10:17.320 experience as we get older. Right. But our bodies are going the other way. The body's getting weaker.

00:10:21.480 It's getting more prone to injury, takes longer to recover. And so you have to like,

00:10:25.880 sort of keep yourself in check because it's really easy to like, you know, start to feel fatigue or

00:10:31.520 feel your body aching or whatever. And then just say, screw it. I'm going to go train anyway,

00:10:34.400 or I'm going to go really go after this weight. Or maybe you're doing squats and you feel a pinch

00:10:38.000 in your knee. And instead of saying, you know what, I'm going to let this rest for the day.

00:10:41.760 No, I'm screwing. I got three more sets. I'm going to pound them out. And then you end up having a

00:10:45.380 worse injury. And so a lot of times I think that we're, we're fought by far our worst enemies,

00:10:49.940 where if we listen to our bodies and sort of just kind of take a step back,

00:10:53.760 a lot of times that'll do a pretty good job as far as keeping you a little bit injury free and,

00:10:57.980 you know, giving yourself some rest time, things like that.

00:11:00.540 Yeah. And you can still, you can still train. I mean, you may not be able to do jujitsu or like

00:11:04.880 live rolling sessions, but like you can go light, you can practice on technique. Like there's things

00:11:09.560 that you can do if you're dealing with a nagging injury. Like, like for me, I actually, so I'm 39

00:11:14.740 right now. Uh, and like, I feel stronger than I ever have in my entire life. Like I'm probably the

00:11:21.200 healthiest, the strongest I've ever been. But to your point, yeah, things just tend to recover

00:11:26.580 slowly, or I feel something a little bit more, you know, than I, than I typically would in the past.

00:11:32.940 And so I definitely think there's like a level of piss and vinegar that we had when we were younger.

00:11:38.740 Like we had something to prove. And as I get older and it's probably just maturity and some level of

00:11:43.480 wisdom. Uh, it's, it's, it's just, I, I don't feel like I have to like, God, like bang everything

00:11:51.140 out. I want to get strong. I want to be physical, but I'm going to do it in a way that sustains my

00:11:56.360 ability to train and to be strong. And then ultimately to serve my family and the people that

00:12:00.360 I care about. Cause you can't do that. You can't do that. If you're hurt, like you're less effective

00:12:05.160 if you're banging yourself up to the point where you're injured.

00:12:08.620 Right. And if you get some good training partners, like the, the guys that I train with,

00:12:13.320 you know, there's times where, you know, we'll have injuries or little things like that. And,

00:12:18.400 you know, we can all move around still, like we can still, you know, it's not quite a flow roll.

00:12:22.100 It's not like we're just not doing anything, but we're still moving and getting a sweat in,

00:12:25.500 but you're just not ripping anything. You know, I've had guys come back from their surgeries and

00:12:29.760 stuff. And as they ease back into it, you know, we make sure they train with the more experienced guys

00:12:33.500 and, you know, you take them easy, take it easy on them so that they can kind of,

00:12:36.820 you know, nurse them back to strength. And then once they're back to strength and you go hard

00:12:39.780 again. So I think that if you don't have the ability, it's just like weight training, right?

00:12:45.200 If you go into the gym every single day and you try to do a one rep max, um, on your,

00:12:49.620 on your big lifts, like your squats or deadlifts or something like you're going to get injured

00:12:52.600 eventually. Like you're just, it's too much like wear and tear on the body at heavy intensity.

00:12:57.580 So instead, what do you do with weight training? You may be, sometimes you might be a deload

00:13:01.180 week and then sometimes you're hitting 70%, 75%, maybe 85, maybe you touch that max

00:13:06.720 or you go to a competition and you really push it. And then you come back down to a certain

00:13:09.680 percentage. You have to be able to do that with your training as well. You've got to be able to

00:13:13.180 like go into it some days where, okay, today's going to be a really hard day. And then tomorrow

00:13:17.760 and the next day after that are going to be a little bit on the lighter side to allow me to train,

00:13:21.240 stay active. But at the same time, we're going to kind of recover and we're going to keep the

00:13:24.060 training light. So we get that blood flow, but we're not getting that same level of damage to the

00:13:28.320 body from the hard, hard rolling. And so you got to be able to kind of move it back and forth.

00:13:32.620 And when you look at like a high level athletes, they do things like that. They, you know, you

00:13:36.820 football players are not just basically putting the pads and helmets on and smashing each other

00:13:40.400 in the face every practice, right? Like, I mean, they're just too much wear and tear in the body.

00:13:44.940 So you've got to do other things around that and be able to change the training up.

00:13:48.940 Yeah, that makes sense. I do like that you're talking about this intent and training and you

00:13:52.620 probably learn that with, with a level of, of, of technique and just being in the game long enough.

00:13:57.800 Cause when I go and I haven't even considered this, so it's a really good point for me is I just

00:14:03.640 go and I show up like, okay, I'm just going to do what, what the instructor says and I'm just going

00:14:08.400 to roll and it's just going to go the way it goes. But now that I'm thinking about it, as you're

00:14:11.660 talking about, I don't do that in other facets of life. Like I don't just show up to my day and I'm

00:14:15.480 like, yeah, whatever happens, happens. I don't go into the gym and say, yeah, you know, maybe like

00:14:21.580 I'll try some deadlifts and like maybe, I don't know, some push press. Like I have a plan for

00:14:25.840 everything that I do. Right. But I don't think I've ever really developed that same concept

00:14:32.880 with training jujitsu. So that actually makes a lot of sense to me. That's, that's a really good

00:14:37.300 point. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's one of the allures of jujitsu, right? Because you go in

00:14:42.800 and you have a coach, so you get to turn your brain off a little bit. So if you're a guy that,

00:14:46.320 you know, spends their time really working there, you know, doing something where involved,

00:14:50.700 especially creative work where your brain's really working. Right. And by the end of the day,

00:14:54.340 you just want to turn the damn thing off a little bit. And so that's an allure of jujitsu. But

00:14:57.620 you know, if you have a good coach, they should structure their training accordingly so that

00:15:01.780 people are getting different sort of levels of intensity with their training. Right. That's a

00:15:05.920 good thing. But at the same time, on a personal level, you can even just take personal responsibility

00:15:10.420 and say, okay, listen, my body's a little bit banged up today. So I'm going to like roll two rounds

00:15:15.860 and then take two rounds out or take a round out or something. And, you know, again, if someone calls

00:15:20.360 you, Oh, you're being a wimp or whatever, again, it's maybe, you know, if there are situations

00:15:26.920 where maybe that's could be true, I guess, but I think for a lot of times when you're talking about

00:15:31.200 jujitsu and training, like, especially for most of us, 99% of the people in jujitsu are not high

00:15:35.520 level competitors. They're just people that want to do it as a hobby. Take your breaks. You're,

00:15:39.740 we're looking for long-term consistency, not short-term intensity. Right. So you look at people all the

00:15:45.140 time and people understand this. I'm not a high level competitor. I'm just a hobbyist. I'm just a guy

00:15:49.760 that works out or whatever. But then when it comes to take a break, the person will say,

00:15:53.520 well, let me get out here and get your, your, your next round in. And maybe there's a time to do that

00:15:57.300 to push mental toughness. Um, but I think that a lot of times, sometimes it's good to take that break.

00:16:01.780 So that's the way you allow your body to recover. And again, you know, just like, um, when you think

00:16:06.740 of saying thing, things like sprints, right. You don't want to do sprint with a very short rest and

00:16:11.520 then more sprints because your sprint ability is going to go way down. You'd rather say sprint,

00:16:15.500 give yourself a little bit of time to rest sprinting. If you're doing a really heavy training

00:16:19.440 session, like say you're doing a heavy set of squats, what do you do? You take like two,

00:16:22.740 three minutes between, so you can give your nervous system time to recover. So there's

00:16:25.920 nothing wrong with taking a rest to allow yourself to get more out of that next role or that next

00:16:29.960 training session. And I think that's something where most people, and I guess this is especially

00:16:34.440 true with the guys that again, with our age, right? No pain, no gain. Just that's the way you do it.

00:16:38.880 Right. We, uh, we never really appreciated the sort of the other side to train the recovery side

00:16:44.420 and the sleep side, the dieting side, all the stuff that makes that hard training possible,

00:16:48.680 you know, like the old bodybuilders back in the day I used to hang out with when I started lifting,

00:16:52.560 they would say, you don't grow in the gym. You grow in the bedroom, in the kitchen, you know,

00:16:57.060 you grow based upon your eating habits, your sleeping habits, your rest time. The stimulus is

00:17:02.180 the lifting, the recovery, that's the growth. And so it's no different than jujitsu when you're

00:17:06.640 basically wiring like motor patterns into your body. If you're not getting sleep, if you're not

00:17:11.940 recovering, if you're not eating properly, those, those motor patterns are not going to be absorbed as

00:17:16.700 quickly as they could be. And your body's not going to be able to as efficiently execute them

00:17:20.280 because your body's going to be in, you know, uh, bad shape. Right. Yeah. I think where people get

00:17:25.440 into trouble and I've been in, we've all been in this boat is where we tell ourselves, Oh, I'm taking

00:17:31.480 a rest day, but the rest days compound, right? Like, no, you're taking like a rest month at this

00:17:37.860 point, this is no longer a rest day. So I think you have to be as objective as you can in evaluating,

00:17:45.320 okay, am I doing this genuinely to rest or am I doing it to cop out from, from actually pushing

00:17:52.020 hard and training as hard as I can to improve? Right. Yeah. And I think that goes back to like

00:17:57.440 what you're talking about, having some sort of plan. So like, you know, talking to yourself and

00:18:01.140 saying, okay, listen, um, you know, last week when I did back-to-back training sessions, I felt like

00:18:05.500 trash the next day. So maybe I'm going to train, I'm going to train Monday, Wednesday, Friday,

00:18:09.820 and then on Tuesday and Thursday, I'm going to do like a, you know, maybe Tuesday I'm going to rest

00:18:14.940 Thursday. I'm going to lift and Saturday I'm going to lift or something, whatever, but making some

00:18:18.220 sort of plan for the days that you plan to train and plant days you don't plan to train, you know,

00:18:22.300 maybe you, maybe you, you know, ice or sort of prioritize family night on one night or something,

00:18:27.160 but, you know, mixing it up, but having some sort of plan and coming up with some sort of routine,

00:18:30.460 I think the routine is really important because once you sort of get into a rhythm with something and it

00:18:34.580 becomes a routine and a habit, you really don't have to think about it. You know, like I've,

00:18:38.500 I've been asked so many times because I've been, I have been training grappling for a long time.

00:18:41.860 People say, well, you know, um, did you ever have trouble going to the gym? Did you ever think

00:18:46.900 about quitting? I mean, for me, quitting was never really an option. I enjoyed it too much.

00:18:50.680 And as far as the, the not going, it literally became so ingrained. Like it's even strange now

00:18:57.340 because with this quarantine, I've been going to the gym on a nightly basis and morning basis for like

00:19:02.960 10 years as a coach. And it's weird because like my body still has this urge. It's like, Hey,

00:19:07.340 we should be doing something at six o'clock at night. We should be on the mats or whatever,

00:19:10.580 you know, we shouldn't be here at home. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think that when you,

00:19:14.740 when you set those routines, you don't have to think about it anymore. It becomes like brushing

00:19:17.660 your teeth. You know, if you don't brush your teeth, you're like, Ooh, my teeth feel dirty.

00:19:20.780 You know, something's wrong. Or, you know, if you don't wash your hands after using the bathroom,

00:19:23.820 Ooh, I felt dirty. Something's wrong. So it's the same thing. Like it's, you know,

00:19:26.820 when you do something so much, eventually you don't have to think about it. It's just a hardwired routine.

00:19:31.340 Yeah. I mean, most people don't need to convince themselves that they should put like

00:19:34.360 deodorant on or go brush their teeth or take a shower. Like, it's just, it's just part of

00:19:38.500 who you are and what you do. I guess my question is, is there a point at which you're just training

00:19:44.380 too little? Like if you're, cause I've, I've thought about this and I've had other people ask

00:19:48.320 me, like, I don't know why they ask me. I'm not the expert, obviously when it comes to this, but

00:19:51.680 let's say like, I can only go once a week. I'm like, is that even worth it? Like, I guess it's

00:19:56.100 better than doing nothing, but is that going to really, you see what I'm saying? Like, what's the point?

00:20:02.040 Like, do you, should you train like three days a week minimum? Or is like, no, one day is good.

00:20:06.720 I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, what you want.

00:20:11.320 Yeah. Your goals, you know what I mean? And that's another thing. Like people, a lot of times we,

00:20:15.760 especially in jujitsu, the sport aspect of it is very captivating, right? It's fun to watch. Like,

00:20:21.860 you know, it's fun to see people do crazy things. It's like, even the, even the average casual gym

00:20:26.520 bro who lifts some weights knows some of these strong man guys, because it's captivating. It's

00:20:31.980 fun to see people do the extreme, right? It just is. But most of us do not live on those extremes.

00:20:37.420 And so I think that a lot of times people have to dial back because you'll get people that'll come

00:20:41.080 into jujitsu that are not competitors. They don't ever want to be a competitor, but then they're

00:20:44.400 watching like a highlight video of some 20 year old black belt who's training his face into the ground.

00:20:49.820 And they're like, okay, I want to do that. I'm like, you don't, you don't want to do that.

00:20:52.280 Like that's at least not now. Yeah. That's a 20 year old man's game. That's not our game,

00:20:58.540 right? We've got to do a little bit differently. And I think that again, you got to cut and go back

00:21:01.520 to why are you doing this? You know? And I think that if someone won't, if you can squeeze in a

00:21:05.460 day a week, that's a hell of a lot better than nothing. I mean, for me right now, I mean, I don't

00:21:09.040 know about you, but if someone said, Hey, listen, you know, with quarantine laws, you can't train

00:21:14.300 six days a week, but you can train on Monday. Would you go Monday? Hell yeah, you go Monday. You'd be like,

00:21:19.080 hell yeah, I'm going to be there in a heartbeat. Like I don't give a shit. I want to train.

00:21:22.280 So I think it's one of those things where, you know, especially with people with jobs

00:21:25.660 and careers and families and juggling all that stuff, if they can squeeze in a day,

00:21:29.360 get your day in. If you can do two, that's great. But again, it's not to say that there's

00:21:33.480 a magic number. Cause I I've done videos on this. Like I've had some guys come in who they

00:21:37.860 could only allocate two days a week. That's all they could do. And on those two days a week,

00:21:42.440 man, they were focused. Like some of my younger guys, sometimes they get to the point where

00:21:47.160 they come in like almost every day and you can see that some days they're on, some days

00:21:51.540 are off. Sometimes they're there and they're just like, I'm here because I'm supposed to be

00:21:54.740 here more often. Right. Because they want to compete or something. Whereas these guys that

00:21:58.340 have two days a week, because of the fact that they're juggling so much, they, they squeeze every

00:22:04.040 ounce of whatever they can get out of that class. They're attentive. They're there. They're focused.

00:22:08.760 It's not something that's, again, they're not taking it for granted. You know, they're taking it

00:22:13.060 100%. I'm here. I'm attentive. I'm glad to be here. I'm so glad that I was able to make my,

00:22:17.860 my Tuesday, Thursday schedule. And some of those dudes like are great. Like, I mean, some of them,

00:22:22.260 I mean, they're not high level competitors or anything like that. And they, they sometimes

00:22:26.380 lack the ability to say roll like for, you know, five, you know, or 10, 10 minute rounds or something,

00:22:33.420 something crazy, right? Their, their cardio may not be there, but as far as their technical ability

00:22:37.360 and their ability to roll like really well in those early rounds is fine. They just might need a

00:22:41.920 break here and there in between. But as far as their technical ability, it's fine.

00:22:45.120 Yeah. Are there some things then, and this will apply specifically to now because a lot of people

00:22:50.240 are quarantined. They can't go in, they can't train, even if they wanted to pick something up,

00:22:53.780 it's like, you can't go do it. Are there things that you should be doing in, in your time off your

00:22:59.700 days off that are actually going to make a difference? Like I look at books, I've got a

00:23:03.060 couple of books that I, that I go through and I look at technique and I watch your videos and I'm like,

00:23:06.920 okay, well, that's good. But none of it's reinforced with the, the muscle memory,

00:23:12.600 like actually putting it into practice. So is that even helping me or is it just like

00:23:16.140 inflating my belief that I can actually do something without actually really being able

00:23:20.620 to execute that? Yeah. You know, it's hard, you know, we're all so different, but I'll say it

00:23:25.340 like this. When the first time I ever had a really like sort of long layoff was maybe I had been

00:23:32.020 trained for about a month. I competed already and I had been training jujitsu for a month. And then

00:23:36.360 my buddy, my buddy was driving, me and him would go to the gym. I didn't have a car at the time.

00:23:42.240 And so he ended up getting a new job. And so I couldn't get to the gym anymore because I didn't

00:23:46.880 have a car. So I had to save up, get the car or whatever. So what I did in the meantime was,

00:23:50.480 is I couldn't, I knew I was going to go back. I knew I had to do it. There was like,

00:23:54.080 it was on my mind every single day. It was like, I'm thinking about getting back there. I'm saving up

00:23:57.920 the money to get a car or whatever. Well, in the meantime, I lifted weights. I went running. I did

00:24:02.680 everything I could in that sense. Um, this is the, this is a time before YouTube. So I was buying

00:24:08.300 DVD, um, like instructionals. Yes. But DVD matches. Cause I wanted to watch matches and see how things

00:24:14.160 work. Um, you know, because that seems to, to me that like, if I watch matches a lot, I seem to get

00:24:20.040 a better understanding of what's going on. And then when my buddy, his, his shift changed and you know,

00:24:26.540 I was a young kid, but I told him, I was like, look, man, like I didn't have a car at the time,

00:24:29.780 but I said, look, man, I'll pay your gym membership if you drive. So I was like, I'll pay your gym

00:24:34.620 membership, you know, if you drive and then I'll just pay your membership. So, you know, for me,

00:24:38.780 this is 2003, it was like the gym membership was like 80 bucks a month or something. And so I'm like

00:24:43.380 paying 160 bucks a month, which is a lot of money for me at the time. And, um, you know, so I was

00:24:48.440 like, yeah, I'll, I'll take care of me. And so we started training together. And when I came back, my body

00:24:52.360 was stronger. I'd gained about 10 pounds over like six, five, six months or whatever. Um, you know, I got a

00:24:58.060 little bit bigger, a little bit stronger and from watching videos. And I mean, I'm talking about,

00:25:02.340 I would watch cause there, there wasn't a lot of content out there. I would watch these matches

00:25:05.920 over and over and over again. Right. And just, just wear these damn discs out. And by, when I came

00:25:11.680 back, I had a better understanding of what was going on than I did when I left and my body was in a

00:25:16.740 better, was in better shape. I still had to get my mat win back. I know it wasn't as sharp from the mat,

00:25:22.780 but as far as like me being strong and physically ready to take on the training, I was in a better spot.

00:25:26.600 And so for a lot of people that are, you know, in this quarantine time, I know that there's a lot

00:25:31.000 of people that like working on dummies and stuff like that. And that's fine. If you like doing that,

00:25:34.220 that's, that's cool. For me, it's just, it's not worth the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

00:25:39.840 For me, it's like, if I get my body stronger, lift some weights, correct muscle imbalances,

00:25:44.460 stretch, do all these different things that is going to be one strengthening my body, which is,

00:25:49.600 that's a good thing, right? That's good for everything that I do in life. But also when I come back to

00:25:53.500 jujitsu, if my body's health, if my body's healthy, then my body can more quickly absorb

00:25:59.340 all these movements because jujitsu is just movement. So if you've got a body that's rigid,

00:26:03.600 broken, tight everywhere and pain, you're not going to be able to move and do the jujitsu.

00:26:08.820 But if you've got a body that's healthy, that's strong, that's ready to rock, jujitsu is not that

00:26:12.520 hard to pick up. And I think for most people that have been, you know, training and, you know,

00:26:17.560 maybe that are just experiencing a few months off, it's not going to be like this stuff leaves you.

00:26:21.420 I mean, you, you think about like, again, high level athletes will take off. They have the

00:26:25.020 off season. They won't even do their sport. They're just, they're doing other stuff. They're

00:26:28.540 doing off season, right? They're not working out and doing football or whatever. They got an off

00:26:32.820 season. So they don't lose everything when they come back. In fact, a lot of times they come back,

00:26:36.740 they, for the body feels refreshed, their minds refreshed. They're excited to be back. And for a

00:26:40.740 lot of people, I think the same thing would be good. Like, look, it's a, it's a crappy situation

00:26:45.520 that we're in. And hopefully again, hopefully we don't, we don't have to fight for our ability to

00:26:51.300 do jujitsu because again, depending on where you're at, um, some people are saying like,

00:26:55.200 you know, no social distancing until, you know, vaccinations are available. Yeah. That's not

00:27:00.000 going to happen. Yeah. I agree, but hopefully we don't have to fight on that. But, um, you know,

00:27:04.940 the, uh, but when we get back again, take, this is like a chance to work on all these other things,

00:27:10.260 your, your diet, your, your body, your strength training, your, your stretching and all these different

00:27:14.440 things, maybe these areas that you lack. And then when you come back, be ready to rock and roll and be

00:27:19.640 excited about being there because you've been waiting for it. And again, the other side of it

00:27:23.540 is that along with the body stuff, I really think there's something to watching like people roll and

00:27:27.660 watching matches because you get to see what jujitsu looks like. And that kind of, if you watch it over

00:27:33.220 and over and over again, you get a sort of, uh, it just sinks in subconsciously. It's like, if you

00:27:38.120 read books, um, if you, for instance, if you read a particular author and you read through like a whole

00:27:43.080 series of books, you'll pick up that guy's cadence, like the way that he writes and stuff,

00:27:47.660 you might even find that all of a sudden it starts coming out in your own writing where you're like,

00:27:50.780 Oh shit, I'm writing like that guy because I've been reading his books. So when you watch people

00:27:54.560 can compete, when you watch them roll, you may not be doing it yourself, but you'll see what's

00:27:58.760 going on. And then when you come back to training, you'll start to recognize certain positions and

00:28:03.000 things better because you just got done watching them for hours and hours and hours. Um, I think that

00:28:07.800 technique videos are probably not as helpful, but I think that actually watching the actual act of

00:28:11.480 rolling and seeing what goes on is, is useful. Yeah. That makes sense. Cause I'm thinking about it,

00:28:16.440 like from the context of somebody who's never, for example, played football before, like you take

00:28:21.180 two guys who've never played football before. And one of them has been watching football religiously

00:28:27.180 and the others isn't even familiar with the game at all. And you put them on a football field who has

00:28:31.740 a better likelihood of being somewhat successful, right? Of course, the guy who at least knows the

00:28:36.440 game. I know when I watch people roll and I see like tournaments or, you know, just some crazy

00:28:41.920 stuff on Instagram, like it broadens my perspective to what is possible. Like I'm like, it, it opens,

00:28:48.320 expands my mind. I'm like, Whoa, I didn't even realize that was a thing. Like I didn't even realize

00:28:53.400 you could do that. And I think that improves, improves my game. I do agree with the technique

00:28:58.400 thing that you're talking about. Cause I remember this must've been two or three months ago. Now.

00:29:02.980 Uh, I had watched a video that you had done from, I want to say you're from,

00:29:06.800 from side control side position and you were doing, uh, uh, from Kimura to America or Kimura

00:29:12.740 Americana. You were just going through the progression arm bar. And I actually watched that.

00:29:19.200 I, if I remember correctly, the day before I went and are the day that I went training that night.

00:29:24.540 And for me, it was good to see that instruction. And then two hours later, go put it into practice.

00:29:30.700 Cause I realized, Oh, okay, well, here's what he said. Here's what I'm going to try. Some of it

00:29:35.680 worked. A lot of it didn't, but at least I had that foundational, but then it was supported by

00:29:40.180 me actually going and doing it and trying it. Yeah. I mean, that's super important,

00:29:45.040 especially with the techniques and stuff. You have to be able to have that feedback,

00:29:47.640 right? Cause you know, for me, like I'm, I'm really like, this is the way that I digest like

00:29:52.780 instructional information, whether it's business related or grappling related, whatever it is,

00:29:57.480 I'll take that one, like that one thing that I'm trying to implement. And whether it's a video,

00:30:02.980 whether it's a book, whether it's a little passage or something, I'll reread it, like rewatch it,

00:30:07.160 re-listen to it over and over and over again. And then meanwhile, try to implement it. So this way

00:30:11.040 you're going through this, this, this sort of iteration cycle where you're trying at getting

00:30:14.560 the feedback, then going back, looking at the information again, going back and trying it again,

00:30:18.680 getting the feedback until you sort of sync up with it and you get a good feel for it, you know?

00:30:22.860 And I think that that's the way that techniques work. And so I don't think that techniques are

00:30:26.120 really useful in the sense right now, you know what I mean? And I think honestly,

00:30:29.980 I was talking to one of my black belts, him and I are both in the same boat.

00:30:33.580 Him and I are both like just nerdy jujitsu guys that like to watch techniques and study stuff and

00:30:38.720 then try them out. And currently neither one of us has really the, um, the drive to do it because

00:30:43.820 you're like, well, I can't use it. I don't get to try it on anyone. So it's like, I got this cool

00:30:47.740 window shopping. Yeah. It's like, I can't, I can't use it. I can't, I can't do anything with it. So

00:30:52.220 I think that, uh, and even my, like my, uh, YouTube statistics have shown that like the talking

00:30:56.380 videos and all those do fine, but the technique videos, it just, it's not interesting because

00:31:00.060 you're like, well, I can't use it. So, uh, I think once, once, once you're back to training,

00:31:04.220 it might make more sense. The trap that I'm worried about falling into, cause I have,

00:31:09.320 I have, uh, four kids and my oldest two, they're, they're, uh, 12 and nine. They like to roll. We

00:31:14.880 have some mats in the front room and we just roll every couple of nights and we just have a good time.

00:31:19.220 And the things that I do to that, I got to be very careful of like lulling myself into believing

00:31:24.940 that I'm better and more capable than I actually am. Cause I'm, when I'm rolling with my 12 year old,

00:31:29.420 there's things I could do that I could never do to a grown man. Who's like pushing back just as hard

00:31:35.320 as I'm pushing forward. So I got to be careful not to like lull myself into believing that I'm better

00:31:39.620 than I am. We, we, as men have a tendency of doing that all the time. Like our egos are so high

00:31:44.020 and we overestimate our abilities. And then we set ourselves up for failure because

00:31:48.180 we think we'll perform well, but when the reality hits, it's like, oh, I'm not at all capable as I

00:31:55.380 thought I was. Yeah. You know, it's weird. I had the, I kind of had the opposite with kids and

00:32:01.420 everybody comes from a different level of the spectrum. I naturally sort of default go to ultra

00:32:06.720 intense and ultra competitive and everything that I do. Um, and with kids, when I started teaching kids,

00:32:11.900 it was, it kind of did the opposite to me. So one of the problems that I had early on in training was

00:32:15.780 I couldn't turn down the damn intensity meter to relax a little bit. Like if I rolled with you,

00:32:20.480 I mean, it was a hundred percent. I'm going, it's world championship style role. I'm trying to win.

00:32:24.700 That's all, all that matters is winning. And then I remember starting to roll with kids and like,

00:32:29.160 you know, it's so playful because I'm like, I'm not worried about losing to this kid. I'm not

00:32:32.440 worried about her. Yeah. You don't want to kill across them. Right. Right. Right. Um, and so,

00:32:37.200 you know, you start playing with them in that sort of playful attitude in, in sort of,

00:32:40.960 it gave me a different gear to shift into for my rolling. So sometimes when I train,

00:32:46.500 sometimes I'm in a very playful mood and like I, I, even with the music in the gym,

00:32:50.540 I'll put music on that reflex set. We'll listen to like some Bob Marley or something,

00:32:53.820 something that's chill. Right. And I'll, I'm in a playful mood. So I'm not there to like kill and

00:32:57.900 go for the win or competition role. And then there's other times where I'll go back to that

00:33:01.380 normal intensity and go hard. But, um, it actually helped bring that in. Cause when I was a purple

00:33:04.740 belt, that was a big problem for me because I couldn't try new things. And so when I started

00:33:08.340 teaching some of the kids, then I started to bring over that attitude towards my regular rolling.

00:33:12.600 And I found that it was able to, um, you know, again, this happens when you have a sort of a

00:33:17.400 certain, a certain level of skill to buffer you from, uh, people, but it allowed me then to just

00:33:22.260 kind of have a little bit more playful sort of a mindset sometimes, uh, when I need to try new

00:33:27.180 weapons and try new techniques and things like that, and just be okay with screwing up a little bit,

00:33:31.660 you know? Um, but I could, I could see where, again, this happens sometimes with, um,

00:33:35.820 with coaches where if they never get out of their gym or if they don't have anyone in their gym

00:33:41.660 that can, can push them, they can sometimes, and this is true about all martial arts, not just

00:33:45.800 jujitsu. You know, you have these, these stories where the, the jujitsu or the, the martial arts

00:33:50.080 coach is in the gym and they're like, you know, everybody looks at them like they're God or

00:33:54.040 something, right? Because they're so good. Right. But, but meanwhile, and then if like another good

00:33:58.520 person comes into the gym, they might not roll with them, you know, or they might not train with

00:34:02.160 them. You know, they'll say, well, you can roll with my students. You train my students. Um, you know,

00:34:05.220 I've seen that several times where, um, guys didn't really want to train with certain people

00:34:09.880 because they didn't like the idea of maybe looking bad in front of their students. And so, um, that's

00:34:14.540 a case where you can see that people getting lulled into, uh, you know, their own hype and thinking

00:34:19.340 that they're super buying their own bullshit. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Man, let me hit the, uh, the pause

00:34:24.820 button really quick. Uh, I've got a message specifically for fathers between the ages of eight to 15. Now I

00:34:30.640 know as well as you do that father's day is coming up this weekend. Uh, and it's likely

00:34:35.220 that you'll be getting an ugly tire too, and some homemade arts and crafts, and that's all

00:34:40.140 fine and great. Uh, but you know, as a father that giving is way better than getting. So if

00:34:44.880 you are looking to give your sons an experience, an experience that they'll never forget, then

00:34:51.100 consider joining us at our first ever legacy experience in Maine. Now this is a three and a half

00:34:56.560 day event. Uh, it's designed to forge tighter bonds with you and your boy, uh, and give both you

00:35:02.180 and him the tools and resources and frameworks and mindsets to thrive as men and very challenging

00:35:07.460 and uncertain times. Uh, you're gonna, you're going to both be pushed physically, mentally,

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00:35:23.080 We only have five spots remaining, so we don't have very many spots. So if you're interested,

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00:35:32.320 and lock in your spot at order of man.com slash legacy. Again, that's order of man.com slash legacy.

00:35:39.180 Get signed up after this conversation for now. Let's get back to it with Chewy.

00:35:44.040 You know, I, I remember when my mindset changed a little bit more to what you're talking about,

00:35:48.660 because I tend to be an intense guy. Like I think the objective anything is to win,

00:35:52.300 like to be the best. If we're going to do this podcast, like this is going to be the best damn

00:35:55.440 podcast that two guys ever had before. Right. If we're going to be in the gym, like whatever,

00:36:00.100 like I want to go hard. But I remember I was rolling with, um, and he, it was a younger,

00:36:06.160 it was a younger guy and I was rolling with him and he was just getting started. And, and I'm not,

00:36:09.900 like I said, I'm not very far down the track, but I got him in a, in a, in a submission.

00:36:13.640 And I remember thinking, dude, I don't, I don't need to like hurt this guy. Like I don't need to

00:36:20.220 finish this submission. Like it's, it's evident that I have this in place and I let it go. And

00:36:25.780 then I just kept rolling. And that for me, that moment was like a switch from kill and destroy

00:36:31.720 everything to let's just be curious. Let's have fun. Like that worked. Gotcha. I don't need to prove

00:36:39.320 that. I got you. I got you. Now let's move into something else. And that mindset of like,

00:36:43.940 just have fun with it. Be loose, play, be curious. When somebody catches me, it's not like, damn,

00:36:50.060 it's like, Whoa, how did you do that? Like that curiosity, those couple of mindset shifts has really

00:36:54.880 been advantageous for me. Yeah. You know, there's a time to turn it up. You know, there's a time to go

00:36:59.940 really hard, but I mean, you even think about it this way. Like you can look at like stories, um,

00:37:04.640 whether they're in like old, you know, mythological stories or even in popular culture and movies,

00:37:09.080 um, of warriors, right? Warriors are, you know, you can think of that, whatever you want to, but,

00:37:14.040 um, you can think about the way the warriors typically trained, right? Typically there's

00:37:17.500 some sort of story where, you know, the, the young kid comes in and there is both an awareness

00:37:22.120 and a submission that goes on where the young warrior, the young fledgling martial artist,

00:37:26.580 whatever it was, is made painstakingly aware that they have no clue what they're doing. Right.

00:37:31.320 And then afterwards it's up to them to submit to the teaching of the coach. And then it's after that

00:37:35.800 submission that they then can learn, right. They, they've become receptive to it.

00:37:38.500 And so like when, you know, we have a new guy come in, we, what I'll do typically,

00:37:43.460 because I found this weird thing where if I don't, if I don't show them that they don't know

00:37:47.840 what they're doing, then what will end up happening is, is they won't, uh, they'll walk

00:37:51.920 away thinking, Oh man, these guys suck. I beat the crap out of them. Right. So what I'll do typically,

00:37:56.700 and I, you know, I probably would have been that way when I first got into it. So what I do is,

00:38:00.340 is I'll, if they make some really bad mistakes, like turning their back or something, I'll,

00:38:04.020 I'll make sure they're aware of that. But otherwise I'll very quickly, like wrap them

00:38:08.300 up into some positions, get a submission again, all with control. So that they're not hurt or

00:38:12.100 whatever, but to bring that awareness to them. So like, all right, I can finish this anytime I want

00:38:17.160 to. And then afterwards that makes him, Oh wow, he's pretty good. And then we play, and then I'll

00:38:21.260 just kind of mess around with them a little bit. We'll move unless they make some really glaring mistake,

00:38:26.060 like turning their back or something. I don't, you know, I won't like go for the kill. I just try to

00:38:29.420 get them used to moving and slowly work their way up until we can, you know, get them to the point,

00:38:34.600 you know, where after a year or so that's where they'll really start to be able to kind of like

00:38:38.980 be able to turn the intensity up a little bit. You know, I, I think the threat or the potential

00:38:44.960 threat of pain and suffering is actually what makes it rewarding. Like if, to me, if, if you and I are

00:38:54.140 rolling, we're, we're in a grappling session and there's no like threat, there's no consequence

00:39:00.560 to it. It's almost like, what the hell is the point of this? But I think the fact that you could

00:39:07.100 put me in a position that would literally and physically hurt me is what actually allows me

00:39:14.200 to improve and accelerate the process of learning. Cause I don't want to be in that position.

00:39:18.300 Right. Well, it's even like, it's just a game. So it's like, we're playing a game and you either

00:39:24.180 win or you lose. And I know some people say you learn, well, yeah, you learn, but you, of course

00:39:28.400 you learn from your losses because it stings. It makes you take notice, right? So if you're winning

00:39:33.540 that it should, or it should make you kind of go, damn, I lost. Like not to say not in such a,

00:39:38.860 not in a way that like keeps you up at night and you're in your irritable with your spouse or

00:39:43.320 something, but enough that makes you say, okay, you had negative feedback. So that lets

00:39:48.000 you know, this does not work. What you just did. Like for instance, if someone's rolling

00:39:51.480 with me and especially like a young wrestler comes in, if they turn their back, I'm going

00:39:55.340 to jump on that back. So they make sure not to do that. So when they get beat, they're

00:39:58.520 like, damn, I got beat. Every time they begin to associate, even subconsciously, if I turn

00:40:02.300 my back, I get choked, I lose. Don't turn your back. Right. But anything where there's a

00:40:07.840 game involved where we have a win and a losing situation, then that's always, that's fun.

00:40:13.040 Like again, but if there's, if it's like a, you know, one of these things where they want

00:40:16.480 to, they want to take away, like everybody gets participation medals and stuff and every,

00:40:20.340 everybody wins. It's like, there's no point to it. Like the whole point is, is competition

00:40:24.180 and that competition is fun. And it, I don't know what it is. It triggers something in our,

00:40:28.320 in our like primitive brains where, you know, that's how humans flourish was through competition

00:40:34.000 and just the, what it is. Well, I think it's good specifically for men too. Cause one of the

00:40:38.680 things that a lot of men talk about is like building a band of brothers, having other men in

00:40:42.140 their circle, who they can spend time with, learn coach from met, be mentored by, et cetera,

00:40:45.880 et cetera. And what I like about jujitsu is it teaches you about other people. And the best

00:40:54.600 way I can describe it is it lets, you know, in, in other men, who's going to bitch out and

00:41:00.760 who isn't right. Because if somebody goes to a training session and they get, they get

00:41:04.760 wrapped up, they get submitted, they get banged up and they get pissed off and they never come

00:41:08.700 back. That's somebody who's probably going to bitch out in other areas of their life.

00:41:11.980 And like, I don't really want that guy in my circle. Like I might be friendly with him. I might,

00:41:16.700 I might support him to some degree, but like, I'm not going to rely on that individual to help me

00:41:20.740 through any troubling times. If on the other hand, I see a guy come into jujitsu and he gets humble

00:41:26.300 and he gets banged up and beat up and he gets frustrated with it to the point where he actually

00:41:30.800 improves himself. I'm like, okay, well, this is a guy who I'm actually interested in having

00:41:35.580 him in my corner because it's proving that he can take an ass kicking and learn from it,

00:41:40.360 grow from it and get back in the fight. And that's what I want to see in people who are in

00:41:44.200 my corner and in my circle. Yeah. You know, I think that, you know, anytime adversity happens,

00:41:48.900 you get to really see who someone is, right? Like it's a, it's a peer into way because we all have

00:41:53.680 this, this superficial covering over top of us. Um, I was listening to a, a screenwriter talk about

00:41:59.680 some of the symbolism in movies and he was talking about that. Most of us go around our life,

00:42:03.220 right? Um, he was talking about the movie Shrek. So Shrek puts on the first one. So he puts on the

00:42:08.500 knight in armor. So he goes to save princess Fiona. The princess cannot see that he's an ogre

00:42:13.820 under the, under the armor. Right. And then slowly he starts to lift his visor and give her a look in

00:42:19.160 and see who this person is. And then slowly removes all the armor. And I think that that's

00:42:22.840 the way a lot of us are, right? We walk around with our social masks on to cover up who we really

00:42:27.480 are. And so when you start to get into adverse situations and situations that are challenging to you,

00:42:32.360 it starts to chip away at that. And you get to see, well, who is this person? How do you,

00:42:36.320 like you said, like if you get smashed, how do you deal with getting smashed? Do you do okay with it?

00:42:39.840 Do you pick back up? Um, you know, and again, that stuff translates on and off the mat. So again,

00:42:44.340 who is this person? And you start to see even weird sides, like where I've had guys come in who are the

00:42:49.340 most chill dudes. They're so low key. And then when you start training with them, they're the most intense

00:42:54.260 individual. Their bodies are tight and rigid. And it's like, there's something going on in that

00:42:58.180 person deeper than what you might think. Um, and then in vice versa, I've rolled with guys that are

00:43:03.200 super hyper and whatever. And then as soon as you roll with them, they're super relaxed. They have

00:43:06.660 nothing to prove. They're just there. So you get to see these different sides of people that through

00:43:10.540 rolling and through training that maybe don't show up in the day-to-day situation and kind of going back

00:43:15.980 to that band of brothers type thing. I think, uh, you know, it's super cool, you know, to be in an

00:43:21.620 environment where you can be around a bunch of people and, you know, you start to connect,

00:43:27.280 you have this common thread amongst each other. So we're all in here to make each other better.

00:43:31.440 And therefore we're bonded in that way. Meanwhile, all this stuff that normally separates us,

00:43:36.700 our political affiliations, what part town we're from, what's our, what's our job, the car that we

00:43:41.860 drive all, none of this shit matters. You know, it's like, I mean, cause like in the gym, like we,

00:43:46.060 I will have political conversations with guys that are like complete opposite to me, but it's completely

00:43:50.860 like cordial and we're not, we don't hate each other. It's just like, Hey, what do you think, man?

00:43:55.140 I'm like, why do you, because I respect the person and I deeply care about them. And so therefore

00:43:58.900 it's not an attack on their character. It's a more of a curiosity. Why do you think that?

00:44:03.440 And so it's a cool thing that I think that a lot of times if people, if more people were in things,

00:44:08.540 not necessarily just jujitsu, but in more situations where they were exposed to a wider swath of people,

00:44:13.960 I think that it would be a great thing for the society at large, just because you would get to

00:44:18.300 meet people that are not part of your, you know, your local neighborhood or the people that are just like

00:44:23.300 you, you're going to get to meet a lot of people that are different than you. And it's a really

00:44:26.400 cool thing to do. Well, and I think you find out too, that most people have more in common than we

00:44:32.520 typically think like we're banded towards common objective. Pretty much. We want the same things

00:44:37.800 out of life. The way we go about getting it or achieving it might be different for everybody else

00:44:42.660 for, for everybody. But I mean, ultimately we're all pretty similar. You know, we all want the same

00:44:48.120 things. I look at jujitsu in a way is like my personally for like me is like my therapy a little

00:44:54.980 bit, you know, like I get to go work things out. I get to focus on one thing and not have to focus

00:44:59.780 on all these distractions. I'm free of distractions. I don't really have when I'm in there a whole lot

00:45:05.640 of like responsibility looming over me. I don't mind carrying the burden, but sometimes I got to take

00:45:10.120 it off and take care of myself. So it's been a good, it's been a good therapy session for me as

00:45:16.780 I, as I've learned to, to train and get involved and go down this path. Yeah. It's just really good

00:45:22.240 for clearing the, clearing the head, clear, you know, kind of getting a clean slate. Like I know

00:45:26.400 that, you know, in some of the most difficult situations that I've ever been in my life, you

00:45:30.060 know, rolling a lot of times where you're in the middle of that role and you can't think about

00:45:33.660 everything. It's very meditative. Right. And then when you're done, you're like, okay, go back to it.

00:45:38.360 Right. So for instance, a lot of times when you're doing a basic seated meditation, um, I, I do these

00:45:43.120 and again, I have no problem with it, but I know that a lot of people, when they first start doing

00:45:46.200 a seated meditation, they have so much trouble, like just not thinking. Right. And again, it's a

00:45:49.980 practice that you have to get into, but jujitsu right out of the gate, you don't get to think

00:45:54.180 because someone's trying to choke you. So therefore it gets you out of your head and it's really cool

00:45:59.000 thing for, so a lot of people are not used to doing that. And so when they get done training,

00:46:02.300 they have this along with the, both the meditative aspect, you have the physical training aspect,

00:46:06.380 which, you know, there's tons of science to back up the fact that our bodies are meant to move.

00:46:10.740 They're not meant to be sedentary. So you're doing all these different aspects and hitting all these

00:46:14.360 different like points. And when you're done with training, you're like, all right, whatever life

00:46:18.780 plans to throw on me, I'm ready to take it, but I'm good now. You know, it's just kind of a,

00:46:23.260 it just sort of dumps out the stress out of your body a bit.

00:46:26.280 Yeah. No, I like the concept too, of moving. Cause that's something that few of us do enough.

00:46:30.760 Like if you're anything like me, you sit behind a computer or a desk or in a chair and you're like

00:46:34.460 hunched over and, and, and you're just not getting the movement that you need. That's been really

00:46:39.780 good. I didn't think about it till you said it, where you said jujitsu is just movement. I mean,

00:46:43.840 it really is like you're trying to move and trying to keep from somebody who's trying to move you and

00:46:50.140 you're moving around that individual. Like that's actually a really interesting way to look at it.

00:46:55.580 It's like, it's just, it's just movement. So there's some resistance there, but ultimately it's just

00:46:59.360 movement. It's just movement. Even when you think about lifting, for instance, so like if you're

00:47:03.900 doing a bench press young lifters early on, when they first start doing like a bench press, we'll

00:47:08.680 say that just as an example, a big compound lift, the numbers that they can lift jump super quick in

00:47:13.920 the beginning, jump dramatically. That's not necessarily because their muscles are getting

00:47:17.860 so much larger or stronger, but more of a case where the body's recruiting all the muscles together

00:47:22.880 that are necessary to do that exercise more efficiently so that when you do something, the motor pattern

00:47:27.500 is becoming much more efficient. So the body says, Hey, we need this bicep muscle, this tricep

00:47:32.220 muscle, this chest, pectoral muscle, whatever gathers them together more efficiently and quickly.

00:47:36.620 And then boom, you can lift more weight. And it's much easier to keep good form. It's no different

00:47:41.880 than that with jujitsu. Basically the more repetitions you do, the more times you attempt to move during

00:47:46.600 rolling, all you're really doing is along with the feedback and sort of fine tuning things, you're

00:47:50.500 basically just getting your body to do all these movements much more efficiently and to, to recruit all the

00:47:55.580 muscles necessary to execute that pattern. And that's, this is why in the beginning, the arm bar,

00:47:59.680 for instance, from guard is like, you know, it's like six different steps and then eventually becomes

00:48:04.420 one step. Like you can just arm bar it's, that's it. A hip escape of a basic shrimp down the mat,

00:48:08.900 a shrimp down the mat can be taught in about three different movements where eventually becomes just

00:48:13.300 shrimp. It becomes one thing because the body becomes efficient. Yeah. So fluid very much. And so

00:48:17.900 basically just all motor pattern learning. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know what you're, are you training

00:48:24.000 at all? Like, is your gym open? Like how, how much are you training right now?

00:48:28.920 How much can you disclose? I should ask that. How much can you disclose?

00:48:32.800 I, there's a couple of guys that I get together with that are, we're all basically,

00:48:36.480 we're not out doing anything. We're basically, we go to the gym and that's about it. Like we go to the

00:48:41.600 gym and then we're, we're, we're quarantined at home. And so, um, you know, I don't, that's what

00:48:46.400 we do. We're, you know, we're all, we're, that's, that's, that's the group that I'm training

00:48:49.340 with right now. So we, we get a couple of times a weekend. Um, you know what I mean? And I've

00:48:53.140 been lifting too. Um, you know, but other than that, that's that, you know, and again, it's,

00:48:57.440 it's not just me, like my students are beginning to, um, message me, you know what I mean? And

00:49:02.060 like, like, dude, like, when do we get like, you know, are we, are we going to train? And even some

00:49:06.660 of my guys are putting together rolling sessions, their houses and stuff. Cause basically when this

00:49:11.220 thing happened, I rented out my business partner and I, we rented out our, uh, our gym to people. So

00:49:16.200 we let them come up and pick up our barbells and weights and stuff. I kept some stuff at the gym for me

00:49:21.180 to use. And then, uh, you know, we had a bunch of extra mats. So we, we let them take mats home

00:49:25.420 and put them in their garage so that them and their families and their friends could train.

00:49:28.700 And so we just rented out the gym, you know what I mean? So we just like, here, you guys take it and

00:49:32.240 go. Um, and so a lot of them are still training in some capacity because I mean, honestly, for me

00:49:37.100 as a coach, that's the biggest thing. Like I don't monetarily, like my business partner and I,

00:49:42.180 we were both very frugal, you know, we, we don't, we're not trying to live a ball in lifestyle.

00:49:46.620 That's not our version of success, but, um, we've been able, we, we have a nice little cushion that

00:49:51.740 we can sit on for a bit, hopefully not too long. Right. Um, but with the, the gym, I, I, I miss the

00:49:56.720 people, right. I miss being inside of the gym with people. That's the thing that really bugs me the

00:50:00.780 most. It's just that I don't get to see those people that I deeply care about in that deep

00:50:05.240 connection, uh, on a regular basis right now. It's just very strange. Yeah. It's tough. I, I kind of

00:50:10.120 feel like, I mean, I wanted to have this conversation and maybe we'll have to do a followup. Cause I,

00:50:13.440 I feel like a little bit like the timing's off cause the guys are going to hear it and they're

00:50:17.000 like, dude, I want to do jujitsu or, or the guys who are already doing jujitsu are going to be like,

00:50:21.380 Oh, I really missed jujitsu. Cause these guys started talking about it. But as things start

00:50:26.200 to ease up and, and society starts to get back to, to normal, like, what is it that you suggest

00:50:31.860 people that want to get involved and start walking down the path, get into, is it just simply finding

00:50:36.880 a gym, experimenting with some, some places in your area? Like, what is the best path to get on,

00:50:41.360 on, on track? Well, first off, you'll have to lose the fear because you've been fed a bunch of

00:50:46.520 fear for the last several months. Right. Um, so I'm a history geek. So when I look at historically

00:50:52.180 situations, you look at depending on how long the fear lingers will depend on how fast everything

00:50:58.360 kind of comes back to a normal state and the economy recovers and everything else. If everybody's

00:51:02.280 walking around with fear of the virus, fear of the market, fear of the economy tanking, whatever,

00:51:07.220 then it's going to be bad. But if people kind of say, okay, look, we did our time. Let's,

00:51:10.580 let's get back on the horse. So first thing is before you jump in the gym, lose the fear,

00:51:13.960 right? Like, cause otherwise you'll be worried about, I'm getting really close to someone.

00:51:17.020 What if I get sick? Whatever. So anyway, um, it was funny. I saw a gym that, uh, I was going

00:51:21.840 to tell you, I saw a gym that said before everything, like completely closed down, it said some to the

00:51:26.900 effect of like, uh, because of potential coronavirus where we've stopped, um, shaking hands. And I'm like,

00:51:33.580 wait, like you stopped shaking hands, but then you're getting to get on the mat for like five

00:51:40.640 minutes and roll around and somebody else is sweating blood. Like, okay, I guess it's just

00:51:47.320 kind of funny when you see stuff like that. Oh dude, I was, I was driving up to the grocery

00:51:51.740 and right next to the grocery store, there's like a home Depot and there's like a line out the door

00:51:56.000 with people with masks on and they don't even have their nose covered or anything. And they're,

00:51:59.460 they're, they're scratching and they're, I'm like, who are we kidding guys? Come on. You got

00:52:03.540 like 200 people at this home Depot. It's like, it's a joke. Um, it's a show, but, uh, you know,

00:52:07.760 yeah, absolutely. But anyway, um, as far as it goes with like getting into training, I mean,

00:52:13.120 the best thing is to, I would encourage people. One is to do a little research on their gym,

00:52:18.340 you know, just to find the gyms that are in their area. And then most gyms offer a free class.

00:52:23.500 So I encourage people to try those free classes, go, go get a feel of it. And you know,

00:52:27.920 if you're looking for a gym for most people, what I would say is you want to find a gym where

00:52:32.920 the tech, the technique and instruction and all that stuff is good, but you also want to find a

00:52:37.320 place that you feel like you kind of belong because you could have the best technical instruction. But

00:52:42.420 if you don't just, if you, if you don't vibe with the people, it's not going to work because you're

00:52:46.360 joining a tribe, you're joining a group of people. Um, you're joining a group of men and women.

00:52:50.360 And if you don't, if you don't gel with those people, they can have the best technique,

00:52:54.720 but it's just not going to work out. Whereas if you find a group of people where you're like,

00:52:58.100 man, these people are cool. They're inviting. And this feels good to me. That's your place.

00:53:02.440 And maybe that place is maybe 20 minutes more of a drive, but I guarantee you that's going to be a

00:53:07.720 better sort of situation long-term than going to the place that may, and I'm not saying this is

00:53:12.020 always the case, but I've just, I see this happen sometimes, um, opposed to going to the closer

00:53:16.060 place, but you don't really enjoy the training as much. You know, you want to be in a place where you

00:53:19.360 feel like you belong and where you feel like the people are, you know, of the same sort of,

00:53:23.200 you know, cut from the same sort of cloth that you are, at least on some level, not necessarily

00:53:26.340 your political beliefs or anything like that, but just as a person, who you are, the actual

00:53:30.160 substance of yourself as a person, not the, not the BS that we try to separate ourselves with.

00:53:34.820 Yeah. I mean the culture, it seems like every place has its own culture and you've got to jive

00:53:38.960 with that. And, and on the other side of it, I think you have to be careful of using your

00:53:44.360 discomfort of putting yourself in a new environment with new people as an excuse not to go there.

00:53:49.520 Cause I think some people would do that too. Like, Oh, I just didn't jive. I'm like, well,

00:53:53.000 you were also the new guy and you went once. So like, you don't really know if you jive or not.

00:53:58.580 Yeah. You know, I think that for me, like, you know, I remember when I went to my first training

00:54:03.240 session, I was nervous as can be, I was so nervous. I had to bring my other two buddies with me one

00:54:07.240 because I didn't have a car, but two, because I wasn't going to go by myself. I was just too nervous

00:54:11.180 about it. And I was the guy who had wrestled and everything else. And then after that first class,

00:54:15.200 I had a blast. Like I was, I was like, this was so much fun. And you know, honestly, that's my goal

00:54:19.680 when new people come into the gym. And that's the goal of the instructors that helped me is that when

00:54:23.500 someone new comes in, our job is to make sure they have a good experience and they walk away like,

00:54:26.480 dude, that was so much fun. I maybe came in with some reservations. I came in, I was nervous,

00:54:30.080 whatever. But after the class, this was cool. And again, if you walk out of there feeling like

00:54:34.560 something's wrong, then again, maybe it is on you and you got to do some soul searching. But again,

00:54:38.960 if you're normally a person who is open-minded, if you come out and with the feeling of like

00:54:43.000 something's off or you feel bad about something, then again, try another gym and see if that's

00:54:47.180 the situation there. If you go to all the gyms in your area and everything's bad, then there's

00:54:50.960 probably, it's probably on you. But again, one of those gyms will probably gel with you and you'll

00:54:56.140 probably enjoy it and have a good situation from it. Right on, man. Well, Hey, I want to ask you a

00:55:01.380 couple of other, uh, other questions before we close things down. The first one, what does it mean to be

00:55:05.780 a man? Uh, you know, this question, it's interesting. Um, I've been asked this before

00:55:13.180 and I've thought about it before and it's different for everyone. I think that, you know, everyone has

00:55:17.220 to come up with their own definition based upon who they are because, um, either it's, it's very

00:55:21.740 ephemeral abstract things, but, um, I, my archetype of a man is based upon the strong men that were in

00:55:27.940 my life as a young man. Like, um, my grandfather was the, the, one of the older men that I was closest

00:55:33.060 to, he was the person that taught me how to, you know, throw a baseball and took me to get swim

00:55:37.180 lessons and we would go out in the country and, um, you know, go fishing and that kind of stuff.

00:55:41.740 And, um, you know, he had a scar from his neck down to his stomach. He served three tours in

00:55:46.920 Vietnam. He'd been blown up and had shrapnel in him. He was a man that sacrificed for his family.

00:55:51.740 He was a man that fought for stuff, even if it wasn't the most popular thing. Again, it wasn't a good

00:55:56.160 war, but he was over there and he did what he had to do to protect his, uh, he was a platoon

00:55:59.860 sergeant. So he'd protect the guys that were in his platoon. Um, you know, and he, uh, he sacrificed

00:56:04.840 a lot for the family and did everything he could for the people around him. He was a, she was a

00:56:08.860 strong man in that sense for me, because I felt like he was a guy that did what it took and did

00:56:13.100 the things that weren't always fun or whatever. And he took care of things. Um, my uncle was another

00:56:18.840 sort of archetype in that sense where he, he was a builder, man. He would, he would, he again,

00:56:23.560 took care of his family. He went to work and took care of business. Um, you know, he would put

00:56:27.540 things into his own hands and he would take care of business. Like if he had to build something,

00:56:30.380 he'd build it himself. You know what I mean? He had that mindset. And so again, um, all these

00:56:34.440 different men in my life would, would sort of drop these things, but I think that it's, it's worth

00:56:38.300 for everyone to sort of take a little step back and assess to themselves. What does it mean to be a

00:56:43.380 man for you personally? Because I don't think that there's a end all definition. I think it's one of

00:56:48.560 those things where there can be lots of different things and it all depends on us as, as people and

00:56:53.100 what we believe, um, is what I think. But, uh, for me, there's a lot of different things, but they,

00:56:57.860 again, I, when I look at them, they come from the archetypes of the men that were most impactful to

00:57:02.320 me. And one of the big things is, is again, with men, we, we have to sacrifice, we have to take care

00:57:06.460 of our families. We have to, uh, we have to build things. We have to do things in, in again, women can

00:57:10.760 do these things too, just fine, but we have to take care of things in that sense. And I think that,

00:57:15.220 uh, you know, that's one of the big things because, you know, when you think about men in, in,

00:57:20.960 in like old tribes, right? Old tribal societies would always have to take men out and they would

00:57:26.540 have to teach them what it meant to be a man. So it wasn't something that they become a man.

00:57:29.760 Women would, would have their typically after their first, uh, you know, period or whatever,

00:57:34.080 they would be a party. Like she's becoming a woman. She now has the ability to give life.

00:57:38.000 And with the men, it was always like, look, you guys are weak. You're not ready to be a man. So we've

00:57:42.000 got to show you what it means to be a man. And it means that you've got to take care of business.

00:57:45.200 You can't run away from your responsibilities. You have to take care of your family. You have to do all

00:57:48.700 these different things and don't run away from the things. And I think that's one thing that

00:57:51.560 really lacks in our societies are, we have a lot of men that are weak. They don't, they don't stick

00:57:55.140 around with their wives. They don't stick around with their kids. They don't stick around with

00:57:57.340 their families. They run at the side of something that's uncomfortable, you know? And I think that,

00:58:01.820 um, that's one of the things to me, that's not a good thing. So anyway, I'm starting to rattle off,

00:58:05.740 but it's a, it's a working definition for everyone, I believe. Yeah. Well, I like that you're

00:58:09.920 talking about sacrifice and responsibility. And I also like that you're talking about looking to other men

00:58:14.940 who have gone before you that you admire and respect and look up to. And that to some degree,

00:58:19.280 you try to emulate those qualities. I think that's a very powerful lesson there.

00:58:23.200 All right, brother. Well, how do we connect with you and learn more about what you're up to?

00:58:27.180 So, yeah, man. So if, um, if anybody's interested in what I'm doing, so if jujitsu,

00:58:31.320 it's probably going to be jujitsu, right? So if you're interested in that kind of stuff,

00:58:34.800 you can check out my, you can literally put jujitsu into the internet and just put it in there.

00:58:39.220 Um, if you want to check out my YouTube, it's on YouTube jujitsu. Um, I send out some emails

00:58:43.780 Monday through Friday. If you want to get on those and get some information, you can go to

00:58:46.740 jujitsu.net. That's my main website. Uh, you can sign up. I'll give you a free little, uh,

00:58:51.220 book on jujitsu. And then from there, you'll get some messages from me. Uh, but again,

00:58:54.820 if you're just interested in seeing what I'm up to, just put in jujitsu wherever you're at on the

00:58:57.620 internet and you'll probably find me somewhere. Right on. We'll sync it all up. I appreciate you.

00:59:01.380 I imagine at some point in the not too distant future, hopefully we'll get together. We'll get some

00:59:05.320 training in. That'd be really cool. Uh, and I got to tell you, I appreciate everything that you

00:59:09.800 are doing because I've learned a lot from you and, uh, it's helped my game. And so

00:59:13.760 I really appreciate you taking some time today, brother. Thanks a lot. Hey, thanks Ryan. Nice

00:59:16.700 to meet you, brother. All right, man. We'll stay in touch. Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation

00:59:21.960 with the one and only Nick Albin, AKA chewy. I hope you enjoyed it. I like, I don't care where

00:59:26.800 you're at in your jujitsu journey. Maybe you haven't even started, uh, or maybe you're well

00:59:31.020 down the path a lot further than I am, but I hope you got value from this. And then you saw that

00:59:34.960 there's some real, obviously there's value in jujitsu, but there's, there's hidden value. There's,

00:59:39.980 there's things that aren't readily seen that, uh, you can gain from practicing the art and the

00:59:47.880 discipline. I hope you will. I hope you'll check out what he's doing. Connect with Nick

00:59:52.980 on Instagram, YouTube, wherever you're doing the socials connect with me. Let me know what

00:59:56.940 you think. Uh, consider coming to origins immersion camp, which is in August. You can check it out on

01:00:02.620 their website, origin main.com. Uh, and potentially we can get a role in, but, uh, yeah, jujitsu has

01:00:09.080 been a big part of my life. And I think you'll see why, if you have already dived into the world

01:00:14.700 of jujitsu or are considering it, I think you'll find out very quickly, the broad appeal that it has.

01:00:20.380 Anyways, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our Friday field notes, which is a tribute and dedication

01:00:26.320 to fathers. So make sure you tune in for that one. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss

01:00:29.920 any of the podcast. And then, uh, we'll be back next week for more interviews and more discussions

01:00:34.980 and everything else that, uh, we as men need to be able to be successful in this, uh, in this crazy

01:00:40.440 world. All right, guys, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:00:45.320 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:00:49.700 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:00:59.920 Thank you.

Order of Man - June 18, 2020

The Hidden Value of Jiu-Jitsu ｜ NICK ALBIN "CHEWY"

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