Order of Man - The Importance of a Tribe, How a Man Shows Up, and Confronting Toxic Employees ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.200 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you on Monday morning. Always

00:00:28.220 getting the week off started, right? Yes. Yes, sir. And we got a couple of questions from,

00:00:33.200 well, a handful of questions from the Foundry and also from Facebook. And some of these are

00:00:38.100 pretty good. There's a theme, end of year, visions, what does 2024 look like? So we'll get to them.

00:00:44.700 I'm sure it's on a lot of guys' minds. So hopefully these are beneficial questions as well as our

00:00:50.140 responses. No guarantees. Yeah, right. I hope that, I mean, the biggest thing is that we implement,

00:00:56.220 because it seems to me, and I do this too, I'm guilty of it just like anybody else, is that we

00:01:00.500 get all hyped up at the end of the year, beginning of 2024. And then we gradually slip into old patterns

00:01:07.240 and old habits. And then we do the same thing next year. And then you hear phrases like,

00:01:12.200 2023 was my warmup and 2024 is my year. And it's every single year. And I've been there too,

00:01:19.740 so I get it. I would just hope that guys actually take the advice that either we share,

00:01:24.760 or they pick up somewhere else in a book or from one of our guests and actually implement it not

00:01:29.080 for the year, but as a lifelong strategy. And I think that's the key. If you decide to go into

00:01:34.360 something and you decide that this is going to be a lifetime commitment, not, hey, I'm going to try

00:01:40.060 this and see how it works, then you're going to be more likely to produce the results. If it comes

00:01:44.260 from a credible source and it's proven to be a tool or a tactic or strategy that actually works.

00:01:50.240 And one thing I will say that's helped, and I know I'm biased as I talk about this,

00:01:54.360 but I need to bring this up. One thing that has helped thousands and thousands of men turn some

00:02:00.400 of these tactics and strategies into long-term solutions to what they're trying to accomplish

00:02:05.880 in life is having two things. It's having a brotherhood and it's having a framework.

00:02:11.900 So if you have the tools and the systems, but you don't have a brotherhood to back you up,

00:02:14.800 to support you along the way, or give you the kick in the pants when you need it,

00:02:17.340 you might deviate. If you have a brotherhood, but you don't have any framework, well,

00:02:21.620 you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. So that's where the iron council comes

00:02:26.580 in. You're going to have the framework because we have all of these tools and resources,

00:02:30.460 conversations, accountability, monthly topics, assignments, challenges, conversations,

00:02:35.680 guest experts. I mean, you name it. And then you have a brotherhood of guys who are actually working

00:02:40.580 and have a vested interest in you achieving and succeeding. So it is open right now and it'll be open

00:02:46.220 through the first week of January. We extended the open enrollment period just a little bit longer

00:02:51.200 because I know there's going to be some stragglers that are like, okay, now that it's 2024, it's

00:02:56.080 January 1st. Now I can start. We'll help you guys out too. So check it out. Order of man.com

00:03:01.420 slash iron council. So important, man, that tribe that we put ourselves around. In fact, this was my

00:03:08.340 journal entry this morning as, as I was doing my morning routine on how critical it is to have a

00:03:16.260 tribe around you that, that to be frank, helps you when you're struggling, gives you the courage when

00:03:22.020 you don't have courage that speaks truth into you when you might be questioning things. And not only is

00:03:29.540 that valuable, but for a lot of people to be frank, some of their tribes are negative. So instead of

00:03:34.960 getting that encouragement, instead of getting someone speaking truth and like calling you up, it's

00:03:40.540 someone that's pulling you down, that's suggesting mediocrity. And it's the complete opposite. And this

00:03:47.880 idea that we can, you know, and, and don't get me wrong. Like I, I like it. I like the thought of, Hey, I

00:03:54.500 shouldn't need those things. Right. And I need to have self-discipline or whatever, but life happens. And

00:03:59.300 sometimes we don't have the courage. We don't have the knowledge. We don't have the motivation and it

00:04:04.020 matters who we surround ourselves by. And a lot of us have to be frank, mediocre people around us

00:04:10.700 that, that probably talk into us in a more negative way than, than a positive one. Yeah. It's crazy.

00:04:18.620 You said something I found interesting. You said, I don't like that. It's, or what did you say? I

00:04:22.940 don't like that. It's this way that we need to be around and what, why? I mean, I like the idea of

00:04:27.720 like, I can have self-discipline and, and, and I don't need structure. Right. I like that idea,

00:04:33.680 but it's, I'm not perfect, you know, and I, I'll, I'll be short tomorrow and I'm going to

00:04:40.000 F things up next week. And if I'm surrounding myself around like-minded men that uplift me,

00:04:47.200 my probability of success will skyrocket.

00:04:50.400 Oh, I agree. It's just a, it's just a really interesting thing. I hear it all the time.

00:04:55.860 Guys are like, I don't need that. And I'm going to, I'm a, I'm a, I'm an Omega or whatever they

00:04:59.620 call it. I'm going to do it on my own and I don't need anybody else. And you can't rely on other

00:05:03.440 people. And I don't know why that started happening. If a guy like that, with that kind

00:05:08.520 of attitude looks at other aspects of life, I guarantee that he values the idea of having a system

00:05:15.380 in place, even if it's as simple as watching a football game on Sunday, like you watch those

00:05:22.400 guys, you're inspired by them, right? They're, they're highly athletic. They're trained, they're

00:05:27.040 disciplined, they're committed. Sure. They have self-discipline and all this stuff, but they're

00:05:30.980 part of a program. There's play, there's a playbook. There's a literal playbook that they follow. They

00:05:36.840 don't just do their own thing. They follow it. And then what they do is they actually go in and they

00:05:41.360 review the tape and they see where they messed up and they're accountable. The linemen are

00:05:46.460 accountable to their quarterback, right? The quarterback is accountable to his receivers.

00:05:50.840 The running back is accountable to his blockers. They're all accountable saying, Hey, you didn't

00:05:54.720 do as good a job as you could have done right there. And nobody bats an eye when we see it in

00:05:58.340 that context, but when it applies to our life, Oh, well, you know, I don't, I could do it on my own.

00:06:03.400 What makes you think that? And why does that, why does that make you weak? You should have

00:06:07.740 discipline. You should be committed. All the things that we talk about often. And you can also

00:06:13.760 have men around you who support you, edify, uplift you, motivate you, inspire you and keep you on the

00:06:21.560 path. Well, and it's kind of a form of arrogance when I think about it, that I know everything. I mean,

00:06:28.640 so much possibilities and what's available to me as a man is, was made possible through other men.

00:06:37.740 Things that were never on my radar, all of a sudden became possible because I saw it done

00:06:42.180 by someone that I have a relationship with. You know, we, we were kind of chatting kind of this,

00:06:48.340 this morning and this weekend with, with Tom, I can't imagine, or I would probably bet, and maybe

00:06:54.400 I'm making some major assumptions here, but Tom did some great stuff, is doing some great stuff.

00:07:00.960 That was more likely made possible through him seeing you do something.

00:07:06.940 Of course.

00:07:07.320 And he goes, whoa, you know, Ryan creates this movement, makes a difference. If he could do that,

00:07:13.080 I, that's now available to me. It's, it's just like the world records around the mile or whatever.

00:07:18.780 Once someone beats that record, all of a sudden everyone starts beating it. What changed?

00:07:23.240 Possibility.

00:07:23.720 Possibility. Yep.

00:07:24.840 Was now made available and men and people start going, oh, maybe that's available to me. That's

00:07:31.060 now possible for me. Something that seemed impossible is now possible. And it almost requires

00:07:36.820 another human to model that for us. So for us to self-evaluate and determine if that's available

00:07:43.520 to, you know what I mean? For us in our lives. Yeah.

00:07:45.860 Yeah. It's fascinating.

00:07:47.820 Well, and shout out to Dom. He didn't ask for us to mention this, but he, he has an organization

00:07:52.060 called Sons of Thunder, which is, it looks like a organization he created through his ministries,

00:07:56.920 his church and ministries. And he had 40 guys show up. They're working with a family now,

00:08:02.200 a single mother, and they're remodeling a home. It looks like they've donated to, I think,

00:08:07.660 tens of thousands of dollars to charity between all of them. Like I said, they're remodeling this home.

00:08:13.020 They're helping the youth. And I think his goal, if I remember correctly, I'd have to look at the

00:08:16.820 text, something like having a thousand men, part of this organization and helping over a million

00:08:21.720 people. That's not only look, I'm not, I'm not going to take any credit for what he's doing,

00:08:28.140 but he did start in what we're doing. And he's been a big part of what we're doing here with

00:08:32.860 order of man and iron council. And he was, he was a member for a very long time until he got busy

00:08:36.560 with his life, which is good. And he might've been inspired to a degree by what we're doing.

00:08:40.660 And now I'm reinvigorated and re-inspired by what he's doing.

00:08:46.140 So we're all helping each other. And, and I, there's things, a lot of guys will talk about

00:08:51.680 competition, especially in this space. There's a lot of men's movements, men's organizations.

00:08:56.000 I did very early on buy into the idea of competition where I was like, I'm not going to

00:09:00.140 share any of that stuff. I turned that pretty quick. If a guy calls me and he's trying to start

00:09:04.220 something similar, man, I'm going to give him a few pointers and give him some advice. I've done

00:09:08.000 free coaching for guys who are starting men's movements. There's no competition. There's 8

00:09:12.940 billion plus people on the planet. Let's assume that half of them roughly are men. That's 4 billion

00:09:17.960 people. I need to be able to serve a thousand, two, 3,000 men hyper, like hyper focused on those

00:09:25.220 guys out of 4 billion. I think we're going to be okay. And we need more men in this space doing it

00:09:29.940 their own way. And I know you just said it, but I've always been impressed by that, by the way,

00:09:34.700 over the years, like I'll see you get on a podcast. And I'm like, it's just another flight,

00:09:39.760 like more or less someone like grab what you've done. They got a Robin still, give it a different

00:09:45.160 brand. And you're like, you're a guest on their podcast. And I'm like, I remember at first going,

00:09:50.160 what are you doing, Ryan? Right? Like, you know what I mean? But it's, it's so true. And it,

00:09:55.020 and it's a huge testament in regards to how you show up. I even remember when Dom stepped away

00:09:59.680 because he was in leadership in the iron council and, and we had a conversation, he felt, man,

00:10:05.060 I feel kind of bad. Like I'm, I'm, I'm abandoning the mission. And I'm like, Dom, this is the mission.

00:10:12.480 Yes. Label it whatever you want it, but, but you moving on and, and tackling something else

00:10:18.600 is what this is about. It is what order of man is about. It is what the iron council is about.

00:10:24.480 Wow. And, and I don't know. And, and you're a, you, you magnify that well. And that's super been

00:10:30.920 impressive to see how uncompetitive you are. And it's really an abundance mentality and it's,

00:10:38.400 and it's awesome. That's it. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate that kid. There's, there is

00:10:42.800 another lesson I think guys ought to be aware of. I have this thought about two types of people in

00:10:48.960 the world when it comes to starting movements or businesses or whatever it might be. There's a

00:10:54.200 certain group of people who I could share every industry secret, every trade secret, every future

00:11:01.940 plan I have. I could literally give them the roadmap to what we've created here and what we will create

00:11:08.740 in the future, everything. And they won't do a thing about it. Then there's another group of people

00:11:14.040 who I don't have to share anything. I don't have to give them anything. I don't have to share anything.

00:11:19.600 I, I keep everything closed and guarded and those people will go out and create it regardless of

00:11:27.900 whether or not I offered my help. So you have two people, people who won't do anything and people who

00:11:32.500 will do, do something. So you might as well, cause it doesn't have anything to do with you, whether or

00:11:38.620 not I help somebody is irrelevant because they're either going to do it or they're not going to do it.

00:11:43.680 So I figure, well, if that guy's going to do it without me, I'd rather have an ally and help him

00:11:51.960 along the path. Because at some point this may become a friendship or a business partnership or

00:11:57.800 an opportunity that would not have existed had I kept everything a secret. He's either going to do

00:12:02.980 it or he's not whether I share or not. So I might as well share. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating.

00:12:09.140 Okay. All right. Let's get into some questions. Let's do it. All right. Nathan Fullerton going into

00:12:15.380 2024. What advice would you give men on how to figure out and then execute their one big ass hairy 0.99

00:12:22.660 goal for 2024? Side note, what is your big ass hairy goal for 2024? And then of course, a little bit 0.94

00:12:29.820 of hashtag hashtags for Nathan here, men of Mars. He's obviously part of battle team Mars here. So

00:12:35.860 got some Mars pride. So what strategies do I have in place? Here's the problem with the answer.

00:12:44.660 It's so boring. It's so boring. It does not make for a good podcast. It doesn't make for a good

00:12:51.740 soundbite. It doesn't make for something that you could go in and meme later. It's so boring. And we've

00:12:57.200 been talking about it forever. It's the battle plan. Yeah, it is. So let me explain that briefly for those of

00:13:04.860 you guys who aren't aware of it. The battle plan is number one, casting a vision for yourself.

00:13:10.120 This is thinking about your future version of yourself. What would you like it to look like?

00:13:14.360 How are you showing up when life is good? How do you react when life is bad? How do you respond?

00:13:20.340 What kind of goals and dreams and desires? Who is around you? What kind of work are you doing?

00:13:25.760 It's that vision of who you want to be in the future. Once we start to craft that vision,

00:13:31.360 then we work backwards into objectives. These are goals in four main categories. I won't get into

00:13:38.260 all of it right now, but goals in four main categories of life that you can complete in 90

00:13:43.240 days, not 120 days, not 30 days, not 90 days. Right. In 90 days, what can you do? So this is kind of

00:13:52.840 counter to that big ass, hairy, audacious goal or whatever Nate said. It's just doing it every single

00:14:00.300 90 days. And then the next 90 days is something else. And the next is something else. We're adding

00:14:04.760 on to what you currently did. Then from there, we work backwards into tactics. Some of you guys are

00:14:10.600 already, I can see your eyes glossed over right now. You're already so bored. This is what I'm saying.

00:14:13.800 It's boring. Okay. The tactics are the things that you do on a daily basis in order to achieve your

00:14:20.740 objective. So if for the first quarter of 2024, you want to increase your bottom line from 100,000 to

00:14:30.400 200,000, just using easy math here, that's 100,000 in 90 days. That means that every day you need to

00:14:38.460 make $1,000 more, a little more than, but roughly $1,000 more than you did the previous quarter.

00:14:46.760 How do you do that? Well, maybe it's making more sales calls and that becomes your daily tactic.

00:14:53.260 I got to make five more sales calls per day. Maybe it's getting your current customers to buy more

00:14:58.820 stuff from you. That also requires additional sales calls. Maybe it's upselling or selling more where

00:15:06.560 your average sale maybe was 500. Now it's 1500. Well, there you go. So what do you need? Maybe it's

00:15:12.680 some sales training for your people so they can turn a $500 sale into a $1,500 sale.

00:15:18.760 But the point is there's a tactic. There's a measurable, quantifiable tactic that you can employ

00:15:24.360 every single day that will inevitably produce that $100,000 additional revenue in the first quarter of

00:15:30.980 2024, which will inevitably lead you to being more of the kind of guy you want to be. Maybe you have a

00:15:37.020 vision that you want to hire 100 people because you find tremendous value and satisfaction in growing

00:15:43.840 your community and putting people to work and meaningful, fulfilling jobs. That's part of your

00:15:49.060 vision. See how this all ties together? So I'm not necessarily a big, hairy, audacious goal kind of

00:15:55.940 guy. I'm monotonous. I'm relentless. I'm consistent. And I know that the big results will take care of

00:16:03.560 themselves. Now I do have some bigger goals that will last longer than 90 days. One is to put

00:16:08.180 together a huge men's summit. I don't see that happening in 2024 to the degree that I want,

00:16:13.640 which is 1000 men getting together for an annual summit. But I think we can get four or 500 people

00:16:20.160 there for 2024. And I'm doing the same exact thing, working it backwards into tactics that I can employ

00:16:26.620 every day to accomplish that goal in the fall of 2024. Yeah, it's perfect. Related to that,

00:16:33.900 Joshua Collins, he says, what about your vision is the single most driving value you have?

00:16:39.880 How did you come to that conclusion? For me, it's my faith as that is what's guided every major

00:16:45.620 decision I've made over the past 15 years from going to Bible college, to teaching a Christian school,

00:16:50.700 to moving out to where I'm now part of a church plant. I think that's an incredible driving factor.

00:16:57.780 If that works for you, great. I am somebody who's spiritual. I believe in God and I do go to church

00:17:05.180 and participate in those types of activities. And the guys, I know where this is going already,

00:17:13.800 but the guys who are devout are going to say, well, you need to do it this way. And maybe that is a way,

00:17:18.420 I don't know. This is the way I do it. I'm driven by being a good man. And what does that mean? Well,

00:17:24.780 I have my definition and you can have your definition. A couple of values, since he's

00:17:30.140 asking about values, we talked about this last week. For me, it's adaptability. I need to learn

00:17:36.360 how to adapt and evolve. And a man who can do that, I think puts himself light years ahead of anybody

00:17:42.640 else because life is going to come at you fast. Things are going to happen in your benefit. Things are

00:17:47.040 going to happen that are going to work against you. You're going to have situations that you create

00:17:51.260 for yourself, situations thrust upon you that are of no fault of your own. And your ability to adapt

00:17:56.640 and evolve to those environments and circumstances spells the difference between success and failure

00:18:03.440 for you and the people you have a responsibility for. The other value that really drives me, and these

00:18:08.180 are things that we don't necessarily talk about, so I bring these up, is that I value trying new

00:18:14.940 things, taking risks, experimentation, putting myself out there, experiencing life, experiencing

00:18:22.920 ideas, bringing and breathing life into my ideas and dreams. That's a value, a personal value of mine.

00:18:30.340 And again, I think a man who's doing that is taking his God-given talents and gifts and abilities

00:18:35.200 and putting them into action for his benefit and the benefit of other people. So I choose to look at it

00:18:41.420 as be a good man. And frankly, part of that is the gospel. I do look to the gospel as an example of

00:18:51.780 what it means to be a good man and how good men show up for themselves and other people. So certainly

00:18:56.800 it's infused into my doctrine, if you want to call it that, or my guiding principles.

00:19:02.940 All right. Next question, Austin Rudy. What is your strategy for creating a successful

00:19:07.520 time block schedule? Do you find it easier to physically write it out, type it out,

00:19:12.240 have notification systems on your devices or et cetera? I don't write it out because I don't

00:19:16.480 want to take the time to do that. And it's clunky and I'd have to do it every week. And a lot of my

00:19:21.320 tasks are reoccurring. That's kind of the point of time blocking. It happens every Wednesday from

00:19:25.940 nine to 11. Why would I need to write that out every week? Regarding notifications,

00:19:31.200 I don't do notifications on my phone. I don't, I don't, there's no social media notifications. My,

00:19:37.480 my ring thing is silent. I don't get text notifications. I don't get games or app

00:19:43.680 notifications, nothing. I have no notifications on my phone. That's funny. I turn mine off too.

00:19:48.840 I don't get notifications. Not even for a text message. Yeah. It's huge because what,

00:19:53.920 here's what happens. Kip, you texted this, me this morning and so did, you know, a dozen other people.

00:20:00.000 I'll check that at my convenience. And when did I check the text from you?

00:20:05.400 When I, when you, cause I know every Monday morning, you're going to say, Hey,

00:20:09.280 we're good for questions or we need a few questions. And so like, I know when you're

00:20:13.520 going to send that text. Yeah. If it's something else, I'll do it when it's convenient for me.

00:20:19.780 That's it. And then I might check it periodically, maybe an, after a meeting, or I have a two hour,

00:20:25.260 two and a half hour block this morning where I'm recording with you. And then I have another

00:20:28.180 podcast after this. I can check my stuff in three hours. It's fine. Yeah. So if you turn off

00:20:33.380 notifications, that's huge. But what I do for, for time blocking, just calendaring in general is I

00:20:38.860 just, I use Google calendar and I live and die by the calendar. And I go in, I set up reoccurring

00:20:44.920 tasks. So this, our, our Monday morning, ask me anything is a reoccurring meeting with you.

00:20:51.080 I it's, it's not real complicated for me. I've been doing it so long that it just is just the

00:20:56.720 calendar. And I, I car, I put it in there and that way I can pull it up. And if somebody says, Hey,

00:21:02.360 can you meet at Monday at nine? I can either look at it or for some things I know, because I've been

00:21:06.280 doing it so long. And I say, no, I can't meet at Monday at nine because that's a standing meeting

00:21:10.020 with Kip. And I literally, it's, it's unavailable. There might be a few exceptions to that,

00:21:16.560 right? If there's an emergency or maybe a huge opportunity that presents itself, I'll call and

00:21:22.300 coordinate with you. Or I happen to be maybe out hunting or something, and then I'll make the

00:21:27.600 arrangements. But outside of that, the meetings are the meetings. And I attend those things like

00:21:32.340 they're religious. Yeah, me too. The only things maybe to add for Austin to consider,

00:21:38.200 it's not just work. So family life is no different. So my workout is on there. When I pick up drop off

00:21:45.740 kids, when they have recitals, I mean, everything is on that calendar. My wife sounds kind of cold,

00:21:53.820 but she knows it's the same thing. So she'll send me meeting invites of, Hey, we have this thing.

00:22:00.060 And, and that's how I coordinate and make sure I prioritize. The other thing that I've done recently,

00:22:05.140 so I can get, you know, after action reviews built into my day, I haven't been good at doing margins.

00:22:12.720 So I'd go back to back and I realized like, that's not going to work, right? I don't have time to use

00:22:18.180 the bathroom. I like run in between meetings. That's not good either. So if I can, I'll have my

00:22:24.420 assistant do like 45 minutes instead of an hour. So I have like 15 minute margins or like on this

00:22:29.620 podcast, I block hour and a half. That's what I do. That way, if we go a little long or short,

00:22:35.800 or we want to talk after it's not a big deal. And I, and so I try to keep that margin in my

00:22:40.800 schedule. So I have time to do, you know, retrospectives or other things that, that might

00:22:46.860 come up. I've heard people say with margins, I've actually had a few people tell me this, that

00:22:51.960 that cuts out. If they have four meetings per day and they're doing a half hour extra margins,

00:22:56.100 that's roughly two hours that they lose each day. You don't lose it. Cause if we don't go for the

00:23:01.980 full hour and a half, I'm going to send a few emails or some correspondence or my to-do list,

00:23:08.200 which is an, again, our battle planner, I'm going to still be efficient during that time.

00:23:12.920 In fact, I found that when you time block and you set a designated time for it, you're actually

00:23:18.300 going to be more productive than if you don't schedule anything at all. It's, we talked about

00:23:22.800 this last week, it's Parkinson's law work expands to the time allotted. So if you have 30 minutes,

00:23:28.880 you're going to crank out a lot more emails in 30 minutes than you would if you had all day long.

00:23:34.060 Yeah. It's so weird. Yeah. I also, so a couple, one, one more comment about what you said. And then

00:23:40.300 a question for you, you said it's cold. I don't, I don't think it's cold. Like it's just, it is what

00:23:46.580 it is. If that's the system that works for you guys, like we don't need to paint it as cold or

00:23:50.940 impersonal, man, use it. That's great. And then the last thing I was going to ask you about this,

00:23:57.300 do you use different colors and different calendars for different things? I don't do

00:24:02.280 that personally. Yeah. Why? I'll tell you why. I want to hear why you. Yeah. So I use one calendar

00:24:08.400 for everything. I used to like, oh, I'll use Google for my personal calendar and then had a work

00:24:12.720 calendar. I'm like, no, it's Kip's calendar. Things need to integrate. This isn't work-life balance.

00:24:18.860 It's work-life integration. It's my life, right? So everything is in one calendar. I do put colors on

00:24:25.740 there and it's really for, to be frank, I flag when I'm driving. So then that way my assistant

00:24:34.240 knows that, okay, he could do a phone call during these blocks or I prioritize things differently.

00:24:42.080 So like everything that's iron council related or order, man, it's orange in honor of your branding.

00:24:49.540 It's orange on my calendar and, and those are non-negotiables. And so Tori knows like, don't

00:24:56.720 touch those. Now, if she's scheduled other things that are blue, she's managing schedules. So she'll

00:25:04.520 determine like, oh, this, this came up. Kip says it's really important. So I'm going to bump this

00:25:09.300 person and, and move. So she knows what she can touch. And then she knows what she can't.

00:25:15.040 Yeah. And, and that's why I do the coloring. I don't, I don't personally do that. It's all just

00:25:21.560 one color. And, and I've always just said, Hey, everything is important. Like doing this podcast

00:25:27.220 is the same priority as, you know, another conversation I might have later. And the same

00:25:32.800 priority is, well, maybe not the same, but again, if push came to shove, I might need to change some

00:25:37.460 things around, but you know, my daughter's dance recital, for example, but it all has importance.

00:25:41.680 And so I just do one color, but what you're saying makes some sense. There might be some

00:25:45.100 reasons to do that. You know, the other thing that, that crosses my mind too, I block focus time

00:25:51.120 and like deep work time too. We have a tendency not to do that stuff. It's like, oh, it involves

00:25:56.520 someone else. I'll book it. I won't get anything done. I mean, if I look at my calendar, right.

00:26:01.680 If I don't block time to actually get heads down, but there's no time to actually do the work that

00:26:09.060 we're talking about in meetings. And so I, I block that focus time as well.

00:26:14.300 Really. I don't personally do that, but I tend to be pretty efficient with my time when I don't

00:26:20.060 have anything else because I have it all written down. So I can go in and say, all right, I got an

00:26:25.920 hour. What do I need to do? And I'll look for a task that I think will take me an hour or two.

00:26:30.580 That'll take me a half hour each. And I'll just crank through them and, and just having that list.

00:26:35.040 And then literally being able to check it off has been really helpful for me.

00:26:39.640 Yeah, totally. All right. Danny Skolnick. Is it appropriate to keep the same vision

00:26:46.680 for an undetermined amount of time? If it is still applicable? I think the answer is yes,

00:26:51.220 but wanted to verify for my friend, I think in sovereignty and the forge, it's suggested to

00:26:56.520 write out a 10 to 20 year vision. So I'm thinking if I like this quarter's vision,

00:27:01.340 then keep it for the moving forward. Yeah. Completely appropriate. If it's still

00:27:05.880 compelling, if it's still driving you to be aspirational, if it's still something that

00:27:10.280 speaks to you, your heart, your soul, your mind. Yeah. No, no reason to change it. The one caveat

00:27:16.180 I would say, or disclaimer is just don't grow complacent. It's very easy to get complacent.

00:27:21.940 In fact, when I, when I just pulled up my task list that, that I write down from that last question,

00:27:27.480 I noticed something and I just checked it off, noticed something that I didn't check off that

00:27:31.040 I did last week. And I, and I only say that because it's easy to get busy with life and

00:27:35.240 other things that we forget to move forward and we forget to grow. And sometimes we're able to

00:27:41.200 deceive ourselves into thinking that we're better than we are, or we're doing better than we are.

00:27:46.220 Um, case in point, when I went through my divorce, it was a shock to me.

00:27:51.060 It was a complete shock. You were operating from the, like, Hey, everything's fine kind

00:27:56.540 of mentality. Right. I thought it was complacent. Yeah. Yeah. And it's that old adage of put a

00:28:01.860 frog in boiling water, water, he'll jump right out, but put them in cold water and gradually heat it

00:28:06.720 up. He'll stay there and cook himself to death. Like you've all heard that. That's true. I didn't

00:28:11.720 really think it was all that bad. And then my ex told me that I was like, wait, what? It was

00:28:16.620 complete shock to me. Now, looking back where I am in my life now, clean, sober, healthy,

00:28:24.140 emotionally, spiritually. I'm like, yeah, that tracks. That makes sense. Cause I'm in a completely

00:28:30.200 different space. I'm thinking if I was married to that person, I'd, I'd make, you know, the similar

00:28:36.160 moves that she did. So, but I would deceive myself and got comfortable and complacent. And I

00:28:42.960 think not revisiting a vision will maybe exacerbate that problem a little bit, or at least just allow

00:28:48.900 it to continue. So just don't grow complacent and make sure it still is aspirational and motivational.

00:28:54.880 Yeah. What other advice would you give around visions? You know, cause I, I feel, you know,

00:28:59.140 Danny's obviously some navigating this water, right. In regards to how does he most effectively use

00:29:05.720 this. And, and one thing that I think that we have a tendency to do, and I've seen this in our

00:29:11.360 council over the years is we'll write this compelling vision. It will move, touch and inspire us. We,

00:29:16.500 we were committed to it. We'll execute the battle plan. And then we'll never look at that vision

00:29:21.920 again. Yeah. Like even through the quarter and a month in, we, we kind of lose our way a little bit

00:29:29.880 maybe and, and not revisit it enough. And so for me personally, you know, I realized that years ago.

00:29:36.700 So, and so my bookmark that I use in my daily journaling is my vision on a card. So I'll write

00:29:44.980 in my journal. And then I read that card as a reminder. So I'm daily focused on what that vision

00:29:52.460 is. And of course, you know, it should pivot and change and adjust and whatever, but that's how I

00:29:58.040 make sure I don't lose sight of that. But what other advice would you give around vision that we

00:30:02.940 kind of common mistakes, you know, that we see in the iron council from time to time?

00:30:07.300 One thing I would say, I have two thoughts on this. One thing I would say is in a vision,

00:30:11.120 don't focus so much on what you want to do and focus instead on who you want to be.

00:30:17.220 Yeah. Because what you want to do is comes after who you want to be. Like you talk about the beat,

00:30:22.740 beat you have, right? Yep. It's, you have to be the person first,

00:30:27.340 and then you're going to do the work and then you're going to have the result.

00:30:30.900 So when you focus on what you want as a vision, I think what you're doing is putting the cart before

00:30:36.180 the horse. You're, you got to figure out who you're going to be and you got to be that person

00:30:40.920 first and the results will follow. That's the natural order of things. So I tend to focus and

00:30:46.020 encourage men to focus on what kind of man do you want to be? What kind of father do you want to be?

00:30:51.560 What kind of husband, what kind of business owner, what kind of leader in your community?

00:30:54.760 When, and I said this earlier, when things go wrong, how do you show up? Yeah. When things go

00:31:01.020 right, how do you show up? When your kid does something that they shouldn't do, how do you

00:31:05.980 respond? When you are faced with a hardship, bankruptcy, medical condition, divorce, loss of

00:31:13.400 a loved one, how do you walk through that? And how do you navigate other people through that?

00:31:18.580 Here's another one. Look at the men who you're inspired by. Maybe it's your grandfather.

00:31:22.600 Maybe it's a complete and total stranger that does something wonderful, but you're inspired by

00:31:26.640 people. Maybe it's a character in a movie, you know, maybe a William Wallace on Braveheart who

00:31:32.420 is, is, is, I know an actual historical figure, but the way he's portrayed in Braveheart is a

00:31:37.480 fictional character, but it still inspires you. It does me. And I want to show up in a certain way

00:31:42.580 based on that. So that's aspirational. That's, that's my vision. That's what it looks like for me.

00:31:48.100 As far as going back and revisiting your vision. I like what you said. I do that as well. I have

00:31:54.120 that vision here in my battle planner and available, and I also have it on my desktop so I can pull it up

00:31:59.520 and refer to it often, but there's another strategy that I use and everything in my house, most

00:32:04.940 everything, not everything, but a lot has significance and meaning that drives me towards

00:32:10.940 being the kind of man that I want to be. I have a couple of, uh, skulls here from hunts that have

00:32:18.200 memories of brotherhood and fellowship and being capable, um, and being a good provider. This sign

00:32:24.860 right here, protect, provide, preside that's built into my vision. I'm a protector. I'm a provider. I

00:32:30.400 preside. I lead. Um, there's a, there's a painting right there of the archangel Michael. I mean,

00:32:36.740 everywhere you turn, there's things that remind me there's a moose over here, like a painting of a

00:32:42.760 moose that reminds me of the time that I had with my son and how I want to show up for my kids. Like

00:32:47.240 it's very deliberate the way that I set up my environment and all these little things show up

00:32:53.020 in an intentional way so that it helps manifest my vision so I can do what I want to do in life.

00:33:00.720 Hmm. I love that. There's a code of, there's also right here along the side,

00:33:04.440 you can't see it just around the corner here. There's a code of conduct that me and my, uh,

00:33:08.640 two oldest sons wrote together. I have it framed. I have it mounted. I look at it every day. I walk

00:33:12.760 right past it. I look at it every single day. I'm reminded of the kind of man I want to be when I

00:33:17.640 see things like that, but it has to be intentional. Yeah. One thing that I, I like to do, um, as well

00:33:24.360 is I'll, you know, we're tying this calendar and these visions together is I'll read that vision,

00:33:30.360 which is to your point, very much focused on how I'm going to show up right as a man for the day.

00:33:37.320 And after I read that, I now pull up my calendar and I, I kind of visualize to be frank of, all right,

00:33:45.780 well, what does that meeting look like? What does that meeting look like? Right. How am I going to

00:33:51.800 have that difficult conversation at 2 PM based upon that vision I just read? How am I going to show up

00:33:56.960 at the mats when I go train? How am I going to walk in the door at 6 PM when I get home?

00:34:03.220 How does that man look? And, and that's, I don't know, I, that has probably helped me more than

00:34:09.960 anything else because I, I, you know what I mean? I get, I might get inspired in that vision, but it's

00:34:15.900 like, no, no, hold on. I'm going to walk in this room and I'm going to show up in that intentional

00:34:21.400 way. And it's so easy to get sideways at least throughout the day. And then by the time I get home,

00:34:26.660 I don't have energy or whatever. And then I'm just, you know, try to find where asshole is on

00:34:32.060 my vision. I'm like, well, it's not on there. I don't know. I don't know why I'm showing up that

00:34:36.480 way. You know, that's, that's not what I'm not doing. Totally. Totally. Actually, Kip, I think that

00:34:45.300 might be one of my favorite things I've heard you say, like, and we've had a lot of conversations,

00:34:50.300 but that, that you just said that you're an asshole was my favorite thing. No, I'm just kidding.

00:34:55.140 Yeah. It's not that true. No, it's not that it's because I'm authentic. No, it's not that

00:35:00.860 what is the favorite thing is your intentionality between behind the way that you step into

00:35:07.860 responsibilities that guys, if you didn't hear that, go back and rewind or like whatever you

00:35:14.300 need to do, actually take that to heart intentionality behind the way that you show up.

00:35:18.140 We do that for select things. Yeah.

00:35:23.860 If you're going out on a first date with somebody, I guarantee you're intentional about how you show up.

00:35:29.780 You go get the car washed, you put on some cologne, maybe a little more than you normally do. You pick

00:35:34.960 out clothes, maybe even went bought new clothes for the first date. You think about where you're going

00:35:39.400 to go. You call for reservations. You're very intentional about it. If you have a big sales

00:35:44.600 presentation, you've researched your potential client, you've prepared your meetings and your

00:35:50.780 documents, you have your conference room set up just the right way to be conducive to a sale,

00:35:56.420 you're very deliberate and intentional about it. But are you doing the same to your point, Kip,

00:36:01.860 when you walk in the door of your house after a long day? Are you doing it the same when you have

00:36:07.560 to go to little Timmy's baseball game and watch him play? What kind of parent are you going to show up?

00:36:12.240 Are you going to be the jerk who's yelling from the bleachers how horrible the coach is doing and

00:36:16.080 why your kid isn't as good as he should be? Or are you going to edify and uplift the coach,

00:36:20.720 support the coach? Maybe even you're actually on the court coaching the team and you're loving on

00:36:26.480 your children in a masculine manly way. Man, if I'm not casting blame or pointing fingers at all of

00:36:35.040 us, myself included, did that in every interaction, our life would be almost unrecognizable in a very

00:36:41.840 short amount of time. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Right. Now I'm thinking about all the other things. I

00:36:48.900 mean, I even thought about this over the weekend, right? I had fight night at the house and I thought,

00:36:53.220 man, I was really intentional with making sure to talk to certain people, right? Because I understand

00:36:57.560 there's a group of guys there and they may not know each other, but I wasn't as intentional as I

00:37:02.800 should have been, you know? And there's some guys that I needed to chat with. And I thought, man,

00:37:07.780 you know, like I didn't do a good job making sure that they felt welcome or going out of my way and

00:37:14.200 letting them know. And how many little things like that just are all over the place, you know,

00:37:19.980 whether it's, you know, replying to Dom's message or reaching out to someone that I've been thinking

00:37:25.180 about, but I didn't do it. And it's just, man, that intentionality around how we show up, whether

00:37:30.600 it's for our families or, or people that we care about. It's so easy to put intention around the

00:37:36.760 superficial and not around those established relationships. It's really unfortunate.

00:37:42.280 Well, I think it's, I think it's easy to do with a novel, a new, a new experience. Like,

00:37:48.720 oh, I'm going to make this amazing. It's novel. It's new. You're excited about it. Do it for 20 years.

00:37:54.920 Yeah. Like be in that business for 20 years and show me a guy who treats a 20 year career like he did

00:38:03.040 on day one. And I guarantee that guy's successful. Yeah. Same thing with, with even a relationship,

00:38:09.500 a marriage, a guy who treats his wife after 20 years, the way that he did when he dated her

00:38:16.200 is a, is going to be in a happy thriving marriage. I can't say that I did that. I didn't do that,

00:38:20.780 which is why I am where I am. But had I done that, it would be different. So powerful. Love it.

00:38:28.080 What's next, Kip? Paul Sanote, in a work environment, what advice can you offer in

00:38:33.920 ways of managing older men? He has kind of two examples and I, I'm going to summarize them.

00:38:39.360 Example one, he has one guy that's belligerent, doesn't agree with the company values. He openly

00:38:44.340 speaks about how unhappy he is with his salary, constant complaining. The other guy kind of misses

00:38:51.780 the mark and throws in the towel easily when things get hard. He says, you know, while this sounds

00:38:57.500 like bitching, I'm grateful for this experience. And I have some hilarious tales that could be

00:39:02.040 straight out of a sitcom, but advice on how to maybe deal with these men.

00:39:08.060 So I wrote down a couple of notes as he was saying that the second guy you need to enlist

00:39:11.960 in the car that throws in the towel. Yeah. You need to enlist him. You need to make him in charge of

00:39:17.720 something. Not, not something, you know, hugely important, but give him a, inspire him, empower

00:39:26.020 him, empower him, give him some responsibility. And he's going to do one of two things. He's

00:39:30.460 either going to start buying into it or he's like, this is dumb. I'm out of here. Fine. I don't care.

00:39:34.620 Either one of those is fine with me. The first guy I'd confront, I would do it in a tactful,

00:39:39.920 respectful way, but let's say you're that guy, Kip, little role play here. Hey Kip, can I talk with you?

00:39:44.380 Yeah. You can talk to me. All right, cool. We go, we do this in private by the way. Right.

00:39:48.140 So we do this, not, not confrontational in front of everybody else. Cause that's threatening. And

00:39:52.040 then he's going to push harder and it's going to turn into a mess. Yeah. Hey Kip, I need to talk

00:39:55.740 with you about something. So we sit down, Hey, look, I'm in a really precarious situation here.

00:40:02.240 I'm, I'm a younger guy than you are. I'm not nearly as experienced as you are. You've been in this

00:40:08.780 business at this game for significantly longer than I have. But that being said, I'm in this

00:40:16.140 position to do a job and the job requires that I have everybody on board. And that doesn't mean

00:40:23.980 just productive. That means helpful and supportive and part of the team. I love having you here

00:40:32.600 because you've been here for a long time. And I think I could learn a lot from you, but in order

00:40:38.580 for that to happen, there's some things that I'm going to need to see change in you. And the way

00:40:44.100 that you show up is not conducive to a team environment and the culture that I want to

00:40:48.920 create. So I'm going to ask you to please stop with the complaining and the griping and the moaning

00:40:57.260 thing in front of everybody. If there's an issue that you have, I will give you the respect that

00:41:03.420 you deserve by hearing your issue. And you will give me the respect I deserve by bringing it to me

00:41:11.020 and me alone and giving me the chance to fix it before you start impacting the rest of the team

00:41:15.820 negatively. Can we work together on that? It's good, man. He's going to say one or two things,

00:41:23.800 screw off or yeah, I think I can do that. And you might have to have that conversation in

00:41:30.860 different forms several times, but you might see improvement. If he says, screw off, good. I don't

00:41:34.800 want you on the team anyways, if you're going to act like that. And you don't have to fire him.

00:41:38.780 You don't have to have any conversations about what can you do with this guy? No, this guy wants to

00:41:44.360 act like a baby. Then you need to treat him like a man because everybody else is accustomed to him

00:41:51.060 acting like a baby. And then they treat him like a baby, which is a faulty incentive.

00:41:57.840 You're incentivizing to be that way. So treat him like a man. And if you can't man up and step up,

00:42:04.780 then he can leave. It might actually be better that he does without you having to fire the guy.

00:42:11.520 Well, and I like playing to the impact that he has, right? I mean, you got experience.

00:42:16.340 Let me say one thing there on that. Yeah. And I want to hear what you have to say. I just want

00:42:21.320 to be very careful. You're not even playing to it. That's real. Yeah. Like the guy does have some

00:42:26.960 value to add. We need to unpack and uncover it and pull all the grime off of it so we can actually

00:42:31.940 see what's going on here. Anyway. So I just want to say that it's not a manipulation tactic.

00:42:36.200 It's true. Totally. Yeah, totally. Well, and, and a lot of people that have that negative

00:42:40.840 approach, they're playing small. It's like, you can run, you can complain all you want. And you

00:42:48.200 might be right on those complaints, but dude, let's let, instead of just complaining, let's do

00:42:53.640 something about it. Let's pivot. Let's change. And, and, and for that to be possible, I need you

00:43:02.540 to level up on the issues, right? Playing small is running your mouth. Playing big is, Hey, let's

00:43:11.280 grab that complaint, that issue, that feedback that you have, and let's address it in a positive

00:43:16.820 way that gets people on board. Let's make some adjustments. Let's make some pivots and empower

00:43:22.340 our people instead of just running our mouths and playing small. Yep. Right. I had kind of an

00:43:28.940 example of this, a little bit example of this, you know, last week where, where I had, and, and I get

00:43:36.840 to have this fun conversation today, actually with this individual, but this, this person pings me and

00:43:41.500 says, Hey Kip, man, I got some feedback on this person over here. Right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:46.860 And I'm like, Hey, that's some really good feedback. I need you to tell him. Hmm. Oh, well, I don't know

00:43:53.720 if I have a relationship like that. And I'm like, no, no, he needs to know, right. You, you should

00:43:59.940 tell him. And it's more powerful coming from you than you telling me. And then some executives like

00:44:06.400 circumventing things and communicating with someone. It's better for the team for you to have that

00:44:13.440 communication directly with that individual, not coming from me. It's good for that person.

00:44:19.180 It's good for you. The one that's wanting to communicate, it's going to be better for your

00:44:23.380 relationship. And Hey, you're uneasy about it. Awesome. Let's get the reps. Let's work through

00:44:30.440 it. How do I have an awkward conversation and get feedback to someone without being concerned that

00:44:34.880 they're offended? Let's figure that out. That's something you need to know. Obviously,

00:44:38.600 if you're avoiding it, those are plain big running your mouth and complaining about someone that's,

00:44:46.660 that's plain small. I agree. Yeah. I like that. You'll have to let us know how that,

00:44:51.720 how that conversation goes. Well, there's actually more to it because he ended up

00:44:55.220 not having that conversation and ended up telling me, telling what he told me, ended up telling someone

00:45:01.360 else. And so now I'm like, dude, now you're colluding. Yeah. Now you're going around you. He's

00:45:08.040 messing with the chain of command. Yeah. And now you're, you're undermining someone. Hey,

00:45:13.680 we're one team. Stop running your mouth. Now you're gossiping. Now you're colluding with people.

00:45:18.860 Yeah. That's not, it's very, it's very childish behavior. You know, this is called order of man.

00:45:24.660 And look, we've all run away from confrontation in one form or the other, but that's, that's not

00:45:30.980 mature to do it. The mature thing is to address it, even though it'll be uncomfortable, bring it up

00:45:36.600 and take care of it. Just take care of it. Yeah, totally. All right. Bob Ross. Why are most men so

00:45:43.780 quick to put others down or chastise them for being a wimp if they spend time creating? So I'm assuming

00:45:50.500 he's kind of leaning into the arts example. I'm proud that I'm a potter and a painter, but most times I'll

00:45:56.220 let other men know that they scoff at the idea. It does not affect me. I just don't think I understand

00:46:02.440 why some choose to mock instead of support. I may not choose your form of relaxation,

00:46:08.260 but I will not be critical of what you enjoy. I don't know. I don't, I don't really care.

00:46:13.940 Yeah. It does. Like the answer to the question is irrelevant to me. I look, we can discuss it.

00:46:19.380 To some extent should be unrelevant to you, right? Cause otherwise if you're, you're giving too much

00:46:23.400 attention to it is, is kind of what I'm hearing you say. Yeah. I'm not saying your question is

00:46:27.720 unimportant. I'm just saying, even if I gave you the perfect answer, what would change about your

00:46:32.160 life? Yeah. Would anything, I don't, I don't know that the answer is real relevant in, in the,

00:46:39.100 in this acute context that you're talking about in the greater scheme of things. Yeah. The, the,

00:46:43.960 the idea that people put each other down and mock each other and poke at each other and in unhealthy

00:46:50.000 ways. Yeah. I think we should certainly address that. And we see it. Like I see it in the Facebook

00:46:54.540 group all the time. I see it. And I don't, I don't understand. I don't understand it either. I don't,

00:46:59.240 I don't get it. I don't, I said this the other day, I've never looked at a profession or, or a hobby

00:47:04.740 or an activity and, and, you know, like lifted up the skirt of that hobby and saw a pair of little

00:47:09.320 testicles because that makes it a manly hobby. Pottery that's unmanly. I don't, I don't feel that

00:47:17.020 way. So I'm going to focus on people who support me, who, who edify me, who inspire me, who motivate

00:47:25.460 me. And then the rest doesn't matter. But I, to answer your question in the spirit in which it's

00:47:29.860 asked, I would say that that's some insecurity on, on the part of other guys, like secure men

00:47:37.840 don't make fun of other people. It's not even on their radar. I, I'm not saying this in a, in a bad

00:47:48.020 way, it might come across wrong, but like, I don't, you doing pottery is not even on my radar

00:47:54.480 because I have other things I'm excited. And now I'm glad for you. I'm happy for you. And you've

00:47:59.840 been a big supporter. He has, he's been a big supporter of what we're doing here. And he always

00:48:03.600 asks questions and engages. I'm excited. You're, you found something you're passionate about,

00:48:07.720 but it's just not on my radar. Why should it be? Why should anything be on my radar that doesn't

00:48:14.240 pertain to my job and responsibilities, but it is on people's radars who feel inadequate.

00:48:19.620 And rather than focusing on their own lives and what they should be doing and how they can improve,

00:48:26.180 they go around poking at everybody and pestering people and bullying people and making fun of people

00:48:32.280 and mocking others for finding something they found joy and value and fulfillment in. So to me,

00:48:38.600 it's an insecurity issue and it's an integrity issue. That person knows they can do better.

00:48:45.660 And instead of doing the work to improve themselves, they'd rather tear other people down.

00:48:50.420 And it's unfortunate. But what I would suggest is that when we run across these individuals,

00:48:57.400 like we don't immerse ourselves in their environment, number one, but we also don't play to their level.

00:49:02.840 And I, I used to do that a lot and I still do it from time to time because it gets the better of me.

00:49:07.020 But when somebody says something ill of me or my work or what we're doing here,

00:49:11.460 that's somebody who's struggling. There's nothing to do with me. I'll give you an example.

00:49:17.140 This was probably two or three years ago. I had posted something on social media,

00:49:22.860 on Instagram about how I was staying up late. In fact, I think it was during the holidays.

00:49:27.400 I was staying up late to fulfill orders and I was excited about it, but I was tired. And I said

00:49:32.700 something like that. And somebody came by, came on and commented and he said it very,

00:49:37.740 very condescending and arrogant was like, you know, men used to die on the railroad tracks and

00:49:43.720 there's guys that have it way harder than you. And you're complaining about having to stay up late.

00:49:47.800 And it just kind of went on and on. And I, yeah, I, I wrote back very respectfully in a moment of

00:49:53.240 clarity. I said, look, I don't know what your job is. It sounds like it might be very mentally,

00:49:58.820 emotionally, physically draining and exhausting. And Hey, I'll respect to you. Like I don't have

00:50:05.220 to do that. And I'm grateful, but I also don't compare my challenges to other people's and would

00:50:10.980 hope that other people don't compare theirs to mine. We all have different things that we're going

00:50:15.600 through. And I said something very, I would say very classy, right? Like I just handled it with some

00:50:20.920 grace in class. And months later, I only remember this story because months later, this guy reaches

00:50:28.440 back out to me. And he said something to the effect I'm paraphrasing here, but Hey, Ryan,

00:50:34.120 I made this comment months ago. I don't even know if you remember, but I was having a bad time. I was

00:50:41.520 going through something at the time. And I said something just that I shouldn't have said,

00:50:46.160 and you handled it really respectfully. And you said something really respectful back.

00:50:50.440 And I just wanted to say, I'm sorry. And of course I accepted it. Hey man, no problem.

00:50:55.900 I've had bad times too. I've responded poorly in a, in a moment of confusion or

00:51:01.340 cloudiness. And it's all good, man. I'm glad, I'm glad we talked about it. I'm glad you're here.

00:51:07.120 Still here supporting. Awesome. Let's drive on.

00:51:10.580 That's crazy. I had, I had one a couple of years ago. No joke, dude. And it, I didn't even forward

00:51:16.700 it to you, but it was talked about you and me. And this guy straight up was like,

00:51:21.320 hope you guys rot and die in hell. Kind of like, it was crazy. Like out of nowhere, I'm like,

00:51:28.940 holy crap. And it had to do something with like being Christian and stuff. Right. Oh yeah. You 0.84

00:51:35.340 know, hope you die. And, um, and I didn't, I just didn't reply. I was just kind of like,

00:51:40.760 dude, that guy's just straight up. That's a bad day. And, uh, you know, it stung a little bit

00:51:47.300 and it was great, crazy. Like a couple of weeks later, yeah, I text or not text, but send a

00:51:52.600 message. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm going through some hard times and blah, blah, blah. And I was

00:51:58.120 like, Hey dude, we all, I get it, you know, but it was, you know, but I could have lashed out and

00:52:04.900 of course you could have escalated the thing and, you know, wouldn't have benefited anybody.

00:52:10.520 So, and then you would have looked just as foolish as he know he, he looked.

00:52:13.700 Yeah. So I I'm not immune to looking foolish and opening my mouth and doing that. I'm just saying

00:52:21.440 that it's always 100% of the time been better when I rise above it. It either gets no response,

00:52:31.040 which is fine. Cause then I can just move on or you get a positive response, which is,

00:52:35.120 Hey man. Yeah. You know what? Maybe I was a little harsh. Like, I'm sorry. Let me scale it. Let's try

00:52:39.420 this again. I actually, I had an interaction in the iron council maybe like three weeks ago.

00:52:44.600 And I said something about, ah, what was it? I can't remember. Oh, about dating. I was talking

00:52:50.800 about dating and somebody said, why did you date? Why did you start dating so early or something?

00:52:56.100 Yeah. And I, I took it and I like infused my own meaning behind the question and, you know,

00:53:02.640 got offended about it. And then we started bickering, you know, and I'm like, okay, just stop.

00:53:09.860 So I sent this guy a message. I'm like, look, man, let's reset. I, I, this is what I said to him

00:53:15.900 in a mess private message. I said, I handled that incorrectly. I jumped to some conclusions and some

00:53:20.920 assumptions. Obviously that question is a little bit raw for me clearly with the way that I responded.

00:53:27.480 So, you know, let, let's, let's do this again. And he was good about it. Like he was like, yeah,

00:53:34.220 it's, it's all good. Maybe I did. We had a great conversation, no harm, no foul. We all do it.

00:53:41.040 It's better when you don't. Yeah. And, and in the spirit of Bob's question, right? There's power

00:53:47.500 in empathy. There's power in understanding human behaviors because often ill responses and people

00:53:57.720 getting triggered will jump to way different perception and conclusions versus reality of

00:54:05.540 human nature is, oh, no, someone's lashing out. Oh, that person's overly arrogant. Well, actually

00:54:11.140 when most people act overly arrogance, because they actually have a low self-esteem, like there's

00:54:16.500 power and understanding a little bit of that human condition. And it allows us to just possibly deal

00:54:23.020 with what's so, and not think things as personal as, as we normally do. You know, one, one situation

00:54:29.660 that could be coming up and I've seen things like this happen where, you know, somebody pokes fun at

00:54:33.860 you for, for pottery. This could actually be a real thing. I've seen scenarios like this. That kid was

00:54:40.380 young and he was super into the arts and his dad said, why are you such a little pussy? 1.00

00:54:47.480 Men don't do that. Yeah. And then he put down the paints, he put down the pottery, he put the clay

00:54:54.040 down. Something he loved and wanted to do and found value in. And then he went and played football

00:55:00.000 instead or whatever his dad told him to do. And he grew up thinking that that was infused into him.

00:55:06.780 And now he has some bitterness and contention and resentment around it. And he's regurgitating

00:55:12.280 what he learned as a kid. I know it sounds extreme. I've heard of scenarios like that.

00:55:17.220 I feel it. And in that case, the best thing that you can do is to your point, show some empathy

00:55:22.780 because maybe you inspire him to pick up the paintbrush again. Now that he's a 40 year old man

00:55:29.060 and no longer under the thumb of his father, which was a toxic relationship. I know it's like we're

00:55:34.340 jumping to some big things here, but this is stuff that happens. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

00:55:42.500 All right. Last question. Justin Doyle, what do you think about the concept that at some fundamental

00:55:49.160 level, certain aspects of people are simply that person being who or how they are? For example,

00:55:55.940 for some, it's their deeply held religious beliefs and others ethos, like a man's belief that he must

00:56:01.760 provide to have value in the household. Ultimately, where is the line between areas of change versus the

00:56:09.480 idea of a package deal? I am who I am mentality. Well, that's certainly true. Yeah. People are going

00:56:20.440 to adopt certain doctrines or dogmas that wherever they picked it up from and they're just not going

00:56:26.680 to change. Yeah. You should recognize that. I actually, on a global scale, I actually have a

00:56:33.740 problem with America inserting its values into other regions and countries as if they just need

00:56:40.320 democracy and then all of their problems will be solved. That's our value. Yeah. That may not

00:56:46.040 necessarily be theirs. Would it be good for them? Maybe. Are they interested? Probably not.

00:56:51.200 Yeah. Because these countries have been in and around much longer than America. So if that was

00:56:56.980 something they genuinely valued and wanted, we would see that already. And we don't for a reason.

00:57:01.380 And it's naive and arrogant to believe that you can change somebody because what you think

00:57:09.720 is the best way is universally the best way. Just let people live their lives. I'll tell

00:57:16.020 you where it becomes a problem. You start messing with mine. Yeah. Once your dogma or doctrine

00:57:22.520 messes with mine, I have a problem. But outside of that, yeah, believe what you want. And these are

00:57:30.880 even people that I love and care about. I have close people who do things and make decisions that I

00:57:37.060 wouldn't advocate for or suggest. They're a grown person. I have to at least respect the idea that

00:57:47.340 they can make their own decisions. I don't respect the decision itself. I respect that they can make

00:57:51.760 their own decision and then they have to live with the consequences. If they would like to change or they

00:57:57.420 ask me for advice or there's something I can share with them that I think might serve them in some

00:58:01.760 way. Sure. I can do that because I love people and I want them to win. But I also simultaneously

00:58:07.420 embrace the idea that this person gets to choose for himself how they live their life. Do you feel

00:58:14.100 that, I mean, in summary, do you approach this concept with the idea that people are probably

00:58:24.560 package deals? The idea that most people don't change, they are what they are. Obviously,

00:58:30.640 we can't cause change in other people anyway. So see them as a package deal. But when it comes to you,

00:58:37.400 are there elements of you that you say, is there any element of you, Ryan, where you go,

00:58:42.760 this is just the way I am? Or is anything up for grabs and these are choices that I get to choose?

00:58:48.420 No, there's certain things that are deeply seated beliefs, moral principles that you're just not

00:58:58.600 going to convince me are okay. Here's an extreme example. Child molestation. I don't embrace,

00:59:06.620 I don't accept that. I don't tolerate it. I don't, nothing. No, never. And I know that's an extreme

00:59:13.180 example, but yeah, sure. There's things that are just so ingrained into my DNA that I will never be

00:59:19.500 accepting or tolerant of, of course. But the other things that are like, well, is this the best way

00:59:26.200 to do it? Or is this the best way to do it? Yeah, I'm open to that. Yeah, for sure.

00:59:31.040 I think what, what Justin's trying to get to is there, is there, is there elements of people that

00:59:36.260 that is who they are and it's not due to experience. It's not due to upbringing. It's not

00:59:42.080 due to anything other than it's fixed. No, we're all conditioned. We're all conditioned. Yeah. Of

00:59:48.680 course. And I think that's really what he's asking ultimately. No, we're all conditioned,

00:59:52.340 but that doesn't mean that's who you are. Yeah. Like, in fact, that's, that that's exactly what

00:59:58.360 it means. That's not who you are. If I, if I take a child and I raise him in a loving, caring,

01:00:08.940 healthy environment that honors other people that respects life. And I take another child

01:00:16.860 the same age and I put them in hit into an abusive, destructive, toxic home where he learns

01:00:24.600 that life is not important and life isn't, has no value. And there's no moral compass guiding.

01:00:31.160 Like we're going to have two different people, you know, same age, just different cultures and

01:00:39.260 experiences. Now that said, I believe that there is some, some qualities, some moral qualities that

01:00:47.240 I think everybody just inherently knows because we have the gift of the spirit of God. Yeah. And that

01:00:55.480 gets subdued through social conditioning and overwritten by social conditioning or

01:01:02.240 magnified. Yeah. So I don't, maybe I don't understand why you're asking the question. I mean,

01:01:10.520 the, the, I think, and I'm trying to understand, I just, maybe I don't understand why. Yeah.

01:01:15.120 There's certain people who you're never going to change and there's other people who are open to

01:01:20.360 change. Hang out with those people. Yeah, totally. Totally. And I love the idea. I don't know why

01:01:28.640 that's empowered me over the years that understand that most people don't change. It really helps me

01:01:36.960 because then I stopped running around thinking everyone's wrong and that they should be, you know

01:01:44.380 what I mean? Like, but I don't accept that for myself, but I understand that for most people they

01:01:51.800 won't. And, and it's, and it's a little sad to be frank, but it's on their terms through their agency

01:01:57.380 and freedom that change is made available. And, and all that we can do is, is be a light of that and,

01:02:05.000 and support them in the process of their agency and freedom of choice.

01:02:09.200 So I wrote this question down. Do we serve others because they'll change or because it's the right

01:02:19.020 thing to do? Yeah. And how, and let me add to it. How often do we do things because we're expecting

01:02:28.700 change out of people? That's where you're going to get yourself into trouble. Yeah. Because if you're

01:02:33.460 doing something with the expectation that somebody will change, you are going to be disappointed.

01:02:39.180 Yeah. It's, it's out of your control, but if you're serving because it's the right thing to do,

01:02:45.880 which I believe it is, then the outcome, you're separated from the outcome. Yeah. The outcome

01:02:51.480 really doesn't matter. It's about how you show up, who you are. Like when you're donating,

01:02:55.780 when you're donating money to charity, do you have to have your name blasted all over everything or not?

01:03:01.800 And now if your business is doing it, you know, you can make a case that it's market. Yeah. I get it.

01:03:05.840 But if you're trying to just be genuinely help people, you don't really need the recognition

01:03:11.720 because the outcome doesn't matter. That's not why you're doing it. Yeah. You're doing it because

01:03:16.780 you believe that's one of your values, that it's the right thing to do. And what happens of it doesn't

01:03:21.880 actually matter all that much. And I believe that as, as a believer in God, I believe that one day we're

01:03:28.140 going to stand with our creator and he's going to say, let's look at your life. Let's look at what you did.

01:03:32.380 And, and all that I need to do is show that I've attempted to do the right thing.

01:03:40.540 Not that I always did, not that it was always received, not that I changed a million hearts

01:03:44.700 of people, not that I changed any, but that I took the talents I was given by God. Yeah. And I

01:03:52.960 magnified them and I put them to use and I try to live a fulfilling life and I try to do good by other

01:03:59.080 people. Yeah. And, and if he can look at that and say, if he can look at that and say, Hey, you know

01:04:05.720 what? I can see that you tried. Then I got the key. That's what I believe. Yeah. Other men. 0.89

01:04:14.140 All right. We mentioned this earlier. Enrollment is open for the iron council. We're going to have

01:04:19.700 that open until the first week of January to sign up and join us there. Go to order of man.com

01:04:26.340 slash iron council. Of course, you can always join us on Facebook as well. That's facebook.com

01:04:32.160 slash group slash order of man. And of course you can get your swag, your order of man swag at store

01:04:39.020 dot order of man.com. And that's simple. Well, I forgot, man. Connect with Mr. Mickler on,

01:04:47.020 on the X and the gram at Ryan Mickler. The M I C H L E R right. Or Mitch. I think that's right.

01:04:54.000 I think that's right. We still need to do skip Jorgensen and Brian Mitchler as a, uh,

01:05:00.420 yeah, as a podcast. Yeah. And give all the wrong answers to you guys. All the wrong answers. Yeah.

01:05:06.200 We'll go woke on you guys. It'll be great. All right, guys. Great questions. Um, I hope you guys,

01:05:13.180 I think we'll be, no, let's see. Christmas is on a Monday. Yeah. So we'll, we'll, that's next week.

01:05:19.160 Oh my goodness. So we got to talk schedules after we hang up here. Why we said, are you

01:05:25.280 want to record on Christmas exception? Come on now Christmas morning, 9.00 AM. Let's go. We'll

01:05:30.240 talk schedules. All right, guys. I appreciate all you guys have a great Christmas, have a great

01:05:34.240 holiday, new year's, all the things, uh, keep asking those questions. We'll keep providing

01:05:38.260 answers. Hopefully they serve you in some way. I'll go out there, take action and become a man. You

01:05:42.240 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of

01:05:47.600 your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 20, 2023

The Importance of a Tribe, How a Man Shows Up, and Confronting Toxic Employees ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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