The Imposter Syndrome, Narcissistic Relationships, Climbing the Corporate Ladder ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 16 minutes
Words per Minute
154.8662
Summary
Imposter syndrome is a psychological pattern in which an individual doubts their skills, talents, talents and accomplishments, and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a fraud. How do we deal with that?
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the
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Ask Me Anything as part of the Order Man podcast. I am Kip Sorensen. I'm typically the co-host with
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Mr. Mickler on these Wednesday episodes. Unfortunately, I'll have to run solo today
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as Mr. Mickler is unable to join me. But we'll have a great conversation. We have some amazing
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questions from the Facebook group, and we'll be able to dive into it and have some discussion
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around kind of what guys are dealing with. The questions that I'll be fielding today is from
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our Facebook group. You can join us there at facebook.com slash group slash order of man,
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as well as you can learn more about our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council by going to order
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of man.com slash iron council. Let's jump into it. These are good questions. All right. Brian Hayes,
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what are your thoughts on overcoming the imposter syndrome? So first, I wanted to make sure I was
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clear on the imposter syndrome. So I actually pulled up the definition and, and, uh, if you guys don't
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mind, I'm going to go ahead and share that because I think it might be valuable as a good baseline.
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So the imposter syndrome, uh, is a psychological pattern in which an individual doubts their skills,
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talents, talents, accomplishments, and has a persistent internalization, uh, or an internalized
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fear of being exposed as a fraud. So let's work through that one more time. Psychological pattern,
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an individual doubts, their skills, talents, and accomplishments, and continually, uh, and
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continued internalization, uh, around the fear of being exposed. So how do we deal with that?
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And, and, and it's funny because like at first glance, I was like, Oh, imposter syndrome,
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that's difficult. And then we break it down, right? And we break it down, uh, based upon
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its definition. And how do we stop doubting our skills, talents, and accomplishments thought
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process, right? And well, let's back up and what's, what's jumped back to the fraud. How do
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you not be a fraud, be authentic, right? And you know, not everything relates to jujitsu,
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even though you might think I believe that, but let's just use jujitsu or learning a new
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talent as an example, or better yet. If I decide to, I don't know, do karate, for instance,
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if I go in there being more concerned about the way I look and avoiding looking bad versus
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my focus being around learning, then I'm going to constantly not be learning. I'm going to
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constantly avoid certain circumstances to ensure that I don't look like a fraud, that
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I don't look like, uh, an idiot of some sort. But if I'm willing to let that go and say,
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guess what? I don't know karate. This is something that's not in my wheelhouse. I'm completely green
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about it. Then it puts me in the mind space of learning to be, there's nothing to be, uh, found
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out about. There's nothing for me to be a fraud about because I'm openly communicating. I have no
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idea what I'm doing. And, and it frees yourself of the social pressures and the judgments of everyone
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else to just be open to learning. So first, I think we need to make sure that we were not being
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a fraud. Don't be a fraud. Don't pretend to be amazing at something that you're not amazing about.
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And, and ironically, by the way, everyone knows that you're not amazing at it. So stop it because
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the only person you're fooling is probably yourself, right? So own the fact that you're not
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amazing in a particular area. So then that way you're now in a position to learn. So for, for us,
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for those of us that are overly concerned about looking good and avoiding looking bad, let that go
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and be authentic about where you're standing is. So then you can be open for growth.
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All right. Now, how do we get past the, the second guessing of our accomplishments?
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That's our, our thought process. And, and part of it is, I think that imposter syndrome,
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a lot of that will come from us not realizing or that we're actually not good at it. And we may
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have been telling ourselves a story that, oh, we're so amazing or whatever, but reality, like we honestly,
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truly don't believe that. So I think there's an evidence or a level of that, that that's part of the
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conversation. I think the other aspect of it is see, see it for what it is. Remove the story,
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right? What did you accomplish and what did you not accomplish? And, and necessarily it's good for
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you to see the good and the bad, right? For me, it was difficult for me to do that marathon. That was
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a difficult thing. I feel accomplished about it. Now, could I have done better? Could I have trained
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harder? Could I have done, you know, am I an amazing quote unquote marathon? No, I'm not,
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but it was still an accomplishment based upon where I was and where I am today. And so I think
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as long as we're progressing and we feel that we are in integrity about our growth and what we're
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accomplishing, we can have those moments of looking back a little bit, seeing where we came from,
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celebrating the wins and the accomplishments that we have, and then continually moving forward.
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I think if we focus on that, um, that's how we move past those thoughts. Um, but I, I actually
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would probably suggest that most of us that are concerned about imposter syndrome, uh, it's because
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we feel like we're imposters because maybe we, maybe we are right. And we need to let go of the ego
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and accept the fact that, uh, there's some growth there. And, and when that's not the case and we
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actually do belong, or we are succeeding, then I think that's a lack of us looking back at our past
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and celebrating the wins a little bit and realizing where we've come from and what we've accomplished.
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And, and there's a little bit of comparison happening there too, I think where, you know,
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I might be hesitant to celebrate my wins because I think that, well, that win Ryan wouldn't think
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that's amazing or he's doing so much better or, or someone else. And then I downplay my own
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accomplishment. Don't do that. Don't compare, right? Realize where you've come from, celebrate
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the success, but don't hang out in the, in the celebration of it all. Like accept it, have some
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reflection and then get back on the path of growth. And, and I think that's how we deal with
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that appropriately. Hopefully that helps Brian. All right. Carl Weber, what are some good options for
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reading up on working through narcissistic relationships? It's an, and I didn't understand
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Carl on my, my apologies. I didn't understand the second part of this question, but I'll read it
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anyway. Uh, it is an unavoidable one in a whole, but can be parsed out into limited interactions.
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Uh, maybe that's maybe suggested strategies of how do we deal with, uh, that type of relationship. So
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I don't know. I'm not a kick, man. I want to pull up Webster again, right? What is the definition
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of a narcissistic relationship? It is. So partners usually have a difficult, uh, narcissistic
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partners usually have difficulty really loving someone else because they don't truly love
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themselves. They are so focused on themselves that they cannot really see their partner as
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a separate person. They tend to only see the partner in terms of how they will fill their
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needs. Okay. So how do we deal with that? Right. Or good options for dealing with it. So the first
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thing is, um, I think it's, you need to get in the proper mindset that are you in the relationship
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with that person because you choose to be, or because you think you can change them. So if,
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if Brian, let's say in your example, not, not Brian, Carl, you're in this relationship with a
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narcissistic partner, um, and you're sticking it out because they can change, that's not going to go
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well. So, um, a distinction that I've was shared years ago, and I use it from time to time is
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the difference of choosing someone or choosing to love one without reason. So, uh, let me give you
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an example. And this is, I don't know, maybe this isn't the best example, but I'll try.
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So you can say, Kip, why do you, let me choose someone that I, I, I might kind of stuck with and
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not, that sounds bad, not stuck with as in like, I hate them or anything, but you know, they're my
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parent. Okay. Your parents, your parent, you can't change them. Right. So someone may ask me,
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Kip, why do you love your, why do you love your dad? And I could have some reasons, right? Um, he
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is a hard worker. Um, he provided for me and my family. Um, he has really great dry humor.
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You know, I could run off with a bunch of things. And then if that's my reason for loving him,
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what if he doesn't do those things anymore? As he gets older, what if his humor goes away?
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Uh, what if, because of his, uh, deteriorating physical health, he can't work. He's not a
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hard worker anymore. Like then why do I love him? Because I choose to
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period. Make choice. The reason why do you love your spouse? Because I choose to love her
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the way she is. So Carl, my suggestion to you is there's far more power in coming to a relationship
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and saying that you're choosing to love someone because you choose to love them.
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Be careful not to base your love on a condition of them changing. I think that could be very
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dangerous. Now, this is someone that you have, you're married to and you're committed to and you
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have kids. I'm not going to even go down that path of all those scenarios. Cause I don't, I don't know
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the specific details, but try to choose someone and have choice be the reason not, you know,
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well, they're loving or whatever. Cause then when they have a bad day, then what you don't love
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them anymore. Right. So make it, make it about choice. Now, how do we deal with this specifically?
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So the key thing is in the definition, a narcissistic individual doesn't love themselves.
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Right. And so the world surrounds them. So I would focus once again, this is like, I don't know why I
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have to keep saying this. Cause I'm just so paranoid, right. That we get into this, this pitfall of
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like changing people. It doesn't work. You're not going to change someone right now. Can we provide
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some guidance and direction and everything for sure, but don't go down this path of trying to
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change the one. So first off, be a great example, be a great example of someone who loves themselves.
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Someone that is, uh, provides grace to other individuals that is caring and serves, right?
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That is our number one way to provide guidance and direction to other individuals is by being a
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great example. So look for, how do you, uh, become the ideal example of a non-narcissistic individual.
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Second, I would focus on how do we get that individual or how do we help that individual see
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why they should love themselves more than they do and how amazing they are. And so you might need to
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adjust your love language a little bit, make sure that you're expressing love in an appropriate
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manner where that person feels loved and supported, uh, because we all see love differently. So maybe
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even having the conversation of what does love look like? What does the ideal husband, how, how,
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what does the ideal husband do for you to feel loved? What would that look like? Right? Well,
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have those conversations adjust a little bit on your side, uh, and then let it be. And I would try to
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really remove the judgment and the harshness of them, not being the way you want them to be,
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because I think that will be more damaging than not. So have some grace and also realize that not
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everything's permanent in life. And so realize that there's growth and we all have our times and our
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seasons, uh, and we should have be affording grace to everybody for that matter. Certainly those that
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we're in relationship with. So Carl, hopefully that helps Daniel price. After listening to your podcast
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from the other week, I decided it's time to get over my fear and get armed with my wife, uh, armed.
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Okay. Armed with my wife. When I brought up teaching our oldest son, 12, that is 12, how to shoot.
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She disagreed and said, kids should start with BB guns. Who is right? No one is right.
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Maybe she's right. Maybe you're right. Doesn't matter who's right per se, right? She might have
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some valid concerns, you know, does base upon your 12 year old, all 12 year olds, aren't the same,
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right? So based upon your 12 year old, should he have a BB gun first before he's shooting something
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else? I don't know. Right now, if he's, he's obviously he or she oldest son, he's obviously
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not shooting a BB gun. I don't think so. So maybe that's a natural, great way to start.
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You know what I mean? Just to expose, uh, and maybe have some, you know, muscle control time
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on a weapon. That's not going to, you know, cause some damage. Um, so I, I don't know if there's a
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right or wrong. Uh, some 12 year olds are ready, uh, for a bigger gun, uh, and, and some aren't.
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So I think it really depends on your 12 year old more than anything else, regardless, uh, whether
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you get him a BB gun or not, I would suggest that you do have him shoot, uh, an actual like caliber
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weapon. Um, it might scare him and that's okay. He should be scared. I remember the first time that
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I had the boys, my boys shoot my, my 40 caliber handgun. They shot one round and they're like,
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yeah, I'm good. Like I'm okay. I know we're dad. And the, and the reason why is it kind of scared
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him a little bit. They, they need to understand, uh, the danger of the weapon, right? Remove that,
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uh, that curiosity that they might have around those guns. And one of the ways that we can do that is
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at least have him shoot. But maybe the majority of that shooting is with a BB gun initially,
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right. To see if he's responsible enough to have, to have a gun or to handle another gun,
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see how he does go out in the range, grab a, some cans, shoot him, uh, show him, uh, hunter safety
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or, you know, gun control, whatever muscle control and see how he does. And if he proves himself,
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maybe it's a great transition to another caliber, you know, 22 or something else. So I wouldn't say
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she's right. You're wrong or vice versa. Who knows? It really depends on your kid and, and whether he's
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shooting a gun or a BB gun, it's probably good, right? So I would take what you can get and, um,
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start the path, whether it's a BB gun or, or a rifle for that matter. So, all right, next question,
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uh, Bill McNay, how do you remain objective at your place of business after you identify that
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they are building a virtual signaling culture? All right, this is good. Um, so Bill, I, I think it,
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it, it, it, my answer would be different depending on your role within the organization,
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right? If, if you're on the executive team and you realize that the executive team is,
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is leaning in the, in the direction of building that type of culture, you're probably in a position
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to have that conversation about the drawbacks of that. And should what we do as an organization
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be more about how it's presented than actually what we are doing, right? Like virtual signaling
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has a tendency to, to lack integrity. Maybe I think is like, Oh, we're doing this on purpose.
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So, uh, you know, it's almost like a marketing campaign versus, Hey, we do work honorably,
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or we care about, I don't know, social issues because we care. And because we choose to those ring
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true differently, right? And one could promote a positive culture and the other one could promote
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kind of a smoke and mirrors, lack of integrity culture. And so if you're in a position from an
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executive side, I think you can have that conversation about the drawbacks of promoting
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such a culture. Now, if you're not in that position, you could probably perhaps depending on
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where you are in the chain of command, bring that up to your boss as you know, what concerns you have
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around it. Um, one thing's for sure though, Bill, I, it's really interesting. You, we all have heard
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that term virtual signaling, and we immediately have like these preconceived assumptions of what that
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means. I would get really clear in your own mind. If I were going to talk to my boss, if I was going to
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bring something up to the executive team about the dangers or the drawbacks of virtual signaling,
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I'd get seriously educated in regards to, are those assumptions accurate? Is it really negative?
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What are the drawbacks? Like become an expert on virtual signaling and, and for yourself identify
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really why it's negative. Just don't go off of, you know, media that we hear on the,
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on the, on social media or news or whatever about all this virtual signaling, this virtual signaling,
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that's almost like a label now. Right. So get clear in your own mind. Like, what does that really
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mean to virtual signal? What are the drawbacks to a culture? What could it possibly promote as well
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as what are the possible benefits, right? Could it help our company recruit better employees if they
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think that we're, you know, that we're virtuous as an organization? Yeah, possibly could it come
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across the negative as well. Like just really get real and clear on it and get very logical. So you
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can have that conversation with the appropriate individuals. Now, if you're in a company culture
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that you feel is like kind of toxic and really negative and you highly disagree with and, and
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you're clear in regards to your ability to provide some insight and direction, um, or have a say in
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the matter, then, you know, maybe it's not the ideal culture for you either. Right. So that's
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another thing to consider, but be careful on that approach because I think that's easy, right? That's
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the easy, like, let me just demonize everyone else. Oh, it's bad culture. There's nothing I can do
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about it and hate your job and leave instead of rising up and looking for the opportunity to uplift
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other, other individuals and educate them. Right. Maybe it's as simple as going to through the chain
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of command and saying, Hey, I feel like our company does this. I would love to do a presentation about
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the pros and cons of virtual signaling within the organization and the, what the cultural impact is
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and present it in a very positive way, like in a very objective way, that's intelligent and concise
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and clear and not, um, overly judgmental. You know what I mean? And quick to conclusions and all the
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things and all those other things. So, uh, it might be a great opportunity to have that conversation.
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In fact, even right now I'm thinking, oh man, I would like to actually dive into this some more and
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get really clear in my own mind. What is virtual signaling exactly? And what are the cultural
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impacts? I actually think it's a great conversation. Um, and a lot of organizations are kind of jumping
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on that bandwagon a little bit. So what's the drawbacks? I don't know. So hopefully that helps
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bill. All right. Bailey Lonberg, what's the best way to get hyper-focused when trying to do a mundane
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tasks that you don't want to do? I understand that making yourself do it, uh, making yourself
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do it to become the master of the mundane to speak, but what tips and tricks do you, the two of you get,
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uh, to get efficient and effective on boring, tedious things in the workplace. I have a slow paced job
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and the state, uh, in the state department, no one is held at a very high standard. How, uh, how,
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and geez, man, I can't read today. No one is held at a very high standard and we do really
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uninspiring work, which I feel makes, makes it even harder. Okay. Sorry about that. All right.
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I think you can make your work inspiring, even if it's mundane. And, and I think it's about
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inspiring, uh, you become the thing that's inspiring, meaning, all right, like filling out
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a paper is not like, you know, I have to fill all these forms all day long. It's not like I'm not
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having a major breakthrough of innovation and I'm not saving the company tons of money or whatever,
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but like you could be inspiring, like how you show up, man, you know, Kip, I know all he's filling
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out his TPI reports, but man, he does it so well. He is so organized. He gets so many done, like
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make yourself the thing that's inspiring when it comes to mundane work. Now I'd like to talk
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to the importance of focus time, which I think is literally the same thing. So, uh, at the company
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I'm at right now, one of the conversations that we're having on the executive team is the importance
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of deep work. And it's really interesting because there's some correlations here. So in, in the
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corporate America, we call it deep work in extreme sports, they call it flow state, but it is focused,
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dedicated time to a task. Now it didn't say dedicated, focused time for entertaining task or,
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uh, uh, uh, an inspiring task, no to a task period.
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And there's major benefits to this. In fact, the benefits of having focused time on a single task
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creates a sense of fulfillment, accomplishment, balance, reduction of stress and chaos.
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Like there are benefits to focus time. The problem is, is we live in a world of distraction,
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constant distraction and, and instant gratification. That is our world. And, and you could replace
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distraction with gratification. So let me give you a typical corporate office scenario.
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I need to work on some documentation, or I need to write up a statement of work kind of mundane,
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right? It's going to be, you know, 20 pages documentation of security guidelines around
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office 365 does not sound very fun. So, but I need to write this up mundane, not very inspiring.
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Um, and then someone walks by distraction. Oh, Hey dude, how you doing? Right. Or phone vibrated.
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Let me grab my phone distraction. Also gratification, their distractions to a, to a mundane task and
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guaranteed all of us can be distracted all day long. If you wanted to, some of us could spend our
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entire day just answering emails. And then what happens on those kinds of days, you leave the
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office feeling what? That you didn't accomplish anything. You were busy, but you really didn't
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move the needle. You communicated, you got distracted, you had lots of conversations, but the backpack of
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responsibility and tasks and things that need to get done is still hanging on your back.
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And you didn't progress any further at the end of the day than you were at the beginning of the day.
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So focus time is very, very valuable. And no, let me say it this way, valuable to yourself and to
00:26:22.020
your organization. So then how do we do this, right? How do we have focus time? So let me give you some of
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my strategies that we've talked about here at my employment. So let me, I'm pulling up a slide deck
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to actually read some of, some of the stuff. So give me a second.
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All right. Here's some things from a cultural perspective that I think we can do at a company
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level. First realize that roles are different in an organization. So some roles are going to require
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more deep work than others, right? Sales reps and business development. There's not very much deep
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work. Programmers completely on the other end of that spectrum, a great deal of deep work. We need to
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respect the differences of roles and realize certain individuals require deep work. Companies can
00:27:21.720
promote noise cancellation headphones, reserving phone rooms, conference rooms, eliminate the
00:27:28.960
opportunity of distraction from where we work. For a lot of us, we're working at home, establishing
00:27:34.480
boundaries. When that door is closed, when I have a sign on the door, unless the house is on fire,
00:27:40.080
you don't even knock, right? Statistically for a programmer, for instance, a single interruption
00:27:47.740
eats away, I think roughly 15 to 25 minutes of time to ramp back up where that thought process was,
00:27:55.820
right? Huge productivity is being lost by distractions and distractions are everything from a phone vibrating
00:28:03.580
to someone walking up to your desk, to a notification on your computer, to I got a new
00:28:10.060
email, to a phone call, et cetera. We need to create an environment where those distractions are turned
00:28:15.220
off. I would turn, I would close email. I'd turn off your phone. I would change your status on your
00:28:21.520
instant messaging. I would close social media notifications, adjust your ecosystem to promote
00:28:27.420
it. Okay. Second order, not second. Jesus is like four have an orderly office, believe it or not
00:28:36.660
organization. Things put away is a distraction to you. You have a messy desk. You have these other
00:28:43.780
things around you. That's all just disorganized and laying all over the place. That's a distraction.
00:28:49.900
Organize your workspace or wherever that is. Second systems and processes. Do you have systems and
00:28:58.360
processes in your life and in the workspace that allows you to efficiently get to the information that
00:29:04.660
you need to accomplish your job in an effective manner? In the corporate America space, we call
00:29:10.240
this knowledge management, right? In information architecture, this is important. I could spend a
00:29:16.700
great deal of time getting distracted, trying to find the information I need to do my job. So this is
00:29:22.860
part of the orderly office, but on the information side, right? Organize your files and your things
00:29:29.100
appropriately so you're efficient and you can get straight to task and not be distracted trying to find
00:29:34.580
things. Okay. Clear chain of command. This is important. Why? Because you know who you need to
00:29:43.660
talk to when you need to talk to someone, right? And we don't, we eliminate the distraction of,
00:29:49.020
well, I talked to him and I need to talk to here and not knowing who to communicate with
00:29:52.500
to accomplish your job. And then last roles and responsibilities defined. What specifically do
00:29:59.380
you need to work on as an individual? Okay. Now those are the kind of the cultural things.
00:30:03.520
On the personal side, these are things that I would recommend. And some of those are personal. I guess
00:30:10.120
your workspace could be your personal, but those tips are really typically from a company or
00:30:15.760
organizational perspective. On a daily basis to promote deep work or focus time, I'd remove any
00:30:24.440
reoccurring or unnecessary meetings from your day. I would schedule your focused work. So literally be
00:30:34.340
very intentional about it. Grab windows of time. If they're windows of two to one to two hours, have 15
00:30:41.680
minute breaks and hold yourself to those times. So work it within your schedule and honor it, right?
00:30:48.640
Don't honor the distraction. Your focus time needs to be a priority, just like everything else in life.
00:30:54.600
If you want to do something, you got to schedule it. You got to make it a priority. This is no different.
00:31:00.160
Last, an end of day process I would highly recommend. And what that end of day process is,
00:31:06.520
is evaluating your day and determining, okay, based upon how today went, how did it go, right?
00:31:14.780
We talk about this in the iron council and on this podcast a lot, have an after action review.
00:31:20.260
What went well, what worked, what did not go well, what do I need to adjust for tomorrow?
00:31:26.780
Okay. End of day review all the urgent issues, make sure that there's nothing else that's urgent
00:31:33.440
that needs to be addressed from a work perspective. Create a list for the urgent items in which you can
00:31:40.680
address tomorrow. Kind of like the must do's for tomorrow. Andy Frisilla, uh, talks about his power
00:31:48.240
list, adjust your schedule, review the schedule for tomorrow. And then most importantly, stop working
00:31:56.060
actually in your day that allows you to honor your focus time. When you stop working,
00:32:06.100
if that bleeds into your personal life, it affects your personal life. The next day you come in,
00:32:11.080
you're strung out, make the separation. Stop working. When you're, when you're done doing your
00:32:19.020
focus time, stop being focused and move on to the next task. Now I could spend a lot of time talking
00:32:25.440
about this. My apologies, but there's so much to this. And to your question, Bailey, I actually think
00:32:31.660
that even the master of the mundane by being super focused on what you're doing and not having the
00:32:37.240
distractions, we might find out that during those mundane tasks that we actually start finding
00:32:43.400
innovation in what, in what we're doing. We might start going, Whoa, actually, you know what?
00:32:49.860
As I hyper-focus on this task, I just realized we can maybe automate this. There's a way that we could
00:32:57.080
attack this better, or my approach to complete this task could be done better, but that requires
00:33:02.100
your full undivided attention to that task to be able to see those areas of innovation.
00:33:09.600
All right. I think I may have covered that a little too much. All right. Bailey, hopefully that was
00:33:15.580
valuable. All right. Carl Versher. Sorry, Carl. Carl Alphabet. Is there such a thing as being too good
00:33:26.180
of an employee? How do I continue to grow in the eyes of the company and my bosses while still not
00:33:32.160
making my coworkers look bad? All right. So believe it or not, I've had this conversation with a buddy of
00:33:41.220
mine where there's actually like work drama due to him pushing and working really hard. Like no joke,
00:33:53.420
employees are reacting and saying, dude, you're making us, the rest of us look bad. Like it's actually
00:33:59.440
creating like this cultural problem. And, and if, if that's the level of culture that you're in, my
00:34:07.420
answer may be drastically different than what I'm about to suggest, but I'm assuming that most companies
00:34:12.120
aren't that bad and that your concern of making your coworkers look bad is probably a little bit more in
00:34:19.460
your head than actual reality. And, and now that I say that, and I think about this for a second,
00:34:27.100
I don't know, maybe my answer wouldn't be any, any different. The reality of it is,
00:34:33.380
and I'm going to go on the hard stance on this one. The reality of it is if your coworkers are going to
00:34:38.460
look bad because you're leveling up and doing your job really, really well, then so be it like that's
00:34:46.540
on them. You have integrity, you kick ass and you achieve. And if that makes people look bad or feel
00:34:57.440
uncomfortable, that's on them. You need to rise up, be the example. If they want to join you at being an
00:35:06.160
amazing employee, awesome. But if they're not, and they're going to look bad because your shadow's
00:35:11.640
overcasting over what they're doing, then so be it rise the bar. And, and I think, uh, now that kind
00:35:18.960
of sucks because you might be in a position of culturally being there. Now, are there strategies
00:35:23.800
Carl that you can take on bringing them with you for sure? In fact, I, I think if you have an idea,
00:35:31.340
let's say, uh, I don't know, you have an idea to improve a process of some sort and you share it
00:35:39.000
in a way that might be inspiring to another team member, they might jump on board. Hey, Carl, man,
00:35:46.480
I was thinking about this. I was realizing the other day and I, you know, I'm just not excited.
00:35:50.600
Like, I don't think we achieve. There's so much that we could accomplish. And I really am,
00:35:55.180
have kind of been lately bought into this idea of like killing it at work. I think we should just,
00:36:02.920
let's push forward as a team. Let's do amazing things. I think there's so much more that we can
00:36:08.800
accomplish. If we, if we like really, uh, buckle down and, and accomplish things better.
00:36:17.400
What do you think we could do? Maybe they're on board. Maybe the guy will be like, you know what?
00:36:22.640
I agree. Yeah. Let's do this. Right? So try to be inspiring. Try to enroll those guys into the
00:36:29.300
conversation of be inspiring, um, and succeeding and rising up. And maybe these guys might join you,
00:36:37.580
but ultimately if you have some personality types that are just straight up victims and they're lazy
00:36:42.900
and there's no desire that they have on their end whatsoever to do their jobs better, leave them
00:36:47.820
in the dust, man. They should get probably fired anyway, to be frank. And, and your job and your
00:36:54.760
objective should be, how do you show up as a man, have integrity and do your job damn well and do it.
00:37:03.240
And if it makes other people look bad, so be it. Now don't do it intentionally to make them look bad.
00:37:07.560
I'm not suggesting that. And, and even be frank, like to continue to grow in the eyes of the company
00:37:13.920
and my bosses. Like I actually don't, I even think that's me might even be the mind, the wrong mindset
00:37:18.880
to grow in the eyes of my company boss. No, just do the job really, really well. Like kick ass.
00:37:28.280
And, and don't worry. That's the, that's the by-product of being amazing is people in the
00:37:33.400
company, your boss, you're going to notice that, but don't make that the focal point. Otherwise you
00:37:37.620
might compromise the scenario and go, Oh, let me do it at this time. So they notice like, don't do that.
00:37:43.200
No, no, don't play the game. Just be an amazing guy and to be amazing at what you do. And people
00:37:49.000
are going to notice, but make your work ethic and have an integrity and honoring your word,
00:37:56.500
make that the reason you're doing it. And as a by-product, the company, the bosses will notice.
00:38:04.560
The other thing is, if that's the focus, that's the kind of man you are. And that can be inspiring
00:38:10.980
to the other employees. But if they catch that you're only doing it to be noticed by the company
00:38:18.580
and the boss, now that lacks integrity. And now it's just kissing ass. And they're going to see
00:38:24.480
that and be annoyed by it. So make it about who you are as a man and your work ethic, not about the
00:38:32.360
other things that will come. Opportunities will present themselves when we rise up. Don't worry
00:38:39.120
about that. I, in fact, I feel so confident that that will show up. Just give it time and change
00:38:44.840
the, change the mindset. David Rivas, two questions. Disclaimer. It's not easy coming up with questions
00:38:52.820
for you when the order man has taught us how to find and resolve on our own. That's good, David.
00:38:58.280
All right. Question number one. And because that was a great comment, David, you get two questions.
00:39:03.720
I'm going to give you both. All right. Question number one. How do you know? Let me take a drink.
00:39:09.400
Hold on. All right. How do you know about anger issues? Is it a real thing? I think I may have a low
00:39:18.840
tolerance or a weak patience for ignorance. Either way, it's a concern I need to address. No worries.
00:39:27.780
Five years of order a man has taught me to restrain when I do converse. Question number two. I'm finding
00:39:35.440
it difficult to find like-minded men the more I interact in discussions primarily aimed at taking
00:39:41.680
ownership and personal accountability of all discussions a man makes. All right. So first
00:39:48.080
question around anger issues and anger around tolerance for other individuals.
00:39:57.520
I think David, the key to this is you're, you're coming to conclusions of judgment too quickly.
00:40:13.580
I'm trying to think of an example here. So if someone does something and it immediately like
00:40:21.800
fires me up, right? And I get mad or frustrated. That tells me that I'm passing judgment immediately
00:40:30.920
without any detail and that I should pause and evaluate the circumstance. So for instance,
00:40:39.420
if that individual, I'm, let's say I label them as ignorant, blah, blah, blah. Why?
00:40:46.880
Why are they ignorant about the thing in which is making me mad? Were they raised different than me?
00:40:53.640
Do they have a different level of education than I have? Do they have the same experiences in life
00:40:59.920
that I have? And if the answer to all those questions is no, then who am I to say that they
00:41:06.320
should see something that is so obvious? They may have just not had the same chances and
00:41:12.460
opportunities to understand something as you and I, period. And even better yet, assume, and I know this
00:41:21.400
is not truth, but it's a great perception to have, a perspective to have. If you were them
00:41:28.000
raised by the same parents in the same social circumstances that they were raised in,
00:41:35.960
you would do the same thing. So who are you to say that they shouldn't be ignorant about something?
00:41:44.300
Now, you talked about in your second question about ownership.
00:41:52.440
There's also some ownership here, right? I have an employee, employee, right? Maybe we jump on a
00:42:00.060
project and the employee's explaining something wrong. I can immediately pause and go, dang it,
00:42:06.040
right? Like, you know, we went over this already, guys, right? I've explained this to you. This is,
00:42:10.920
this is how we architect the system and blah, blah, blah. The ownership side of that conversation is
00:42:16.020
apparently I didn't explain it well enough. Apparently I wasn't dynamic enough in my explanation
00:42:23.220
that it registered for that employee. So let me take responsibility of their ignorance
00:42:29.460
and pivot and adjust how I am as a leader to ensure that they're no longer ignorant around that
00:42:36.760
discussion point. Okay. Work example. Let's give a social example. I might pull up social media right
00:42:44.720
now, Instagram, and see a post from someone immediately get pissed off, right? Oh my gosh,
00:42:51.500
this person is so ignorant and stupid. They don't understand this social circumstance.
00:42:56.260
They obviously didn't research anything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I could be very quickly
00:43:02.360
judgmental, but then I have to also realize that what's human nature. Human nature is to tribalize.
00:43:11.080
They've identified themselves as part of a tribe. Maybe that tribe is a political group.
00:43:16.960
They read a headline. It aligns with their tribe. They stand by that tribe. They regurgitate information
00:43:23.240
with very little time in understanding and, or investigation on their part. Makes sense.
00:43:30.580
Now I can actually have some, maybe some empathy and realize that they're being victims of their
00:43:38.000
human condition. And unfortunately in their life, they've never apparently have learned the value
00:43:46.160
in critical thinking and they're being lazy with their thought process. Okay. Got it.
00:43:51.880
Right. Like don't do what they do. Right. In that example, you judging them too quickly and not
00:43:59.280
understanding how they are acting is a lack of thought, critical thinking on your part around
00:44:05.640
that individual and that human. So add critical thinking to everything and, and realize things are
00:44:12.440
all complex where everything's more complex, right? Whenever I hear like a soundbite for news,
00:44:18.040
oh, they didn't do this. Or let's use Trump's taxes as an example. Trump doesn't pay his taxes.
00:44:23.560
He only pays $750 a month or whatever. Okay. That's federal taxes. How much does he pay state?
00:44:30.120
What's his income? You like start looking through all the other things and understand the data, but
00:44:34.280
it's no different than our judgments on individuals. And, and I think most of the time when we have some
00:44:39.860
critical thinking, we can actually end up having empathy for them and, and not like, don't feel
00:44:47.440
sorry for them, but have some empathy, understand where they're at. And everyone's on a different
00:44:51.780
path, you know, and sometimes you're just gonna have to shake your head a little bit and say,
00:44:55.320
you know, kind of feel sorry for them, right? That they don't realize who or how they show up
00:45:00.560
in life and that they're being overly ignorant from a work perspective, take some extreme ownership,
00:45:05.980
figure out how do you teach your people not to be ignorant about a particular subject.
00:45:09.060
All right. Question number two, I find it difficult to find like-minded men and more
00:45:13.620
interactions, uh, men, the more I interact on discussions, primarily aimed at taking ownership
00:45:19.260
and personal accountability. There's a reason why the iron council is such a big deal. I really do.
00:45:26.220
I mean, that is, so the iron council is, is our brotherhood. If you want our mastermind group
00:45:33.980
that is tied to this podcast to order of man. And we're roughly 700 members that are associated to
00:45:43.340
a team that meet, meet weekly, hold each other accountable, push each other through goals,
00:45:49.660
have critical conversations and discussions and ideas and concepts. And, and it's, and Ryan has
00:45:56.680
mentioned this in the past. Guys don't join, get their data and they leave in six months because
00:46:02.500
they're all good to go. They could some of them, but we don't. Why? Cause we're part of the community.
00:46:11.340
It's, it's amazing how often I'm in, I'm in awe and I'm inspired by conversations within the iron
00:46:19.560
council, whether it's being on a battle team call or our all hands calls on Fridays or leadership calls,
00:46:26.940
why it's refreshing to have those kind of conversations with like-minded men. And, and David,
00:46:34.140
I only bring this up because I'm, I'm, I, I understand it's, it, it's difficult to find those
00:46:45.380
guys in our lives. And it's refreshing to be part of a community with so many guys.
00:46:51.400
Now you could join the iron council. If you want to look into that order of man.com slash iron
00:46:56.760
council. Otherwise let's talk about how do we create that in our communities, right? Or how do
00:47:01.680
we, how do we find those men? Right. And I think they're there. I think they're all around us.
00:47:10.280
We just not having the conversation, right? You're not, you know, I don't know. You're not in a group
00:47:15.780
with friends and saying, Hey, so, uh, Bob, how do you feel about, uh, extreme ownership or how do you
00:47:22.240
feel about being a victim and blaming your wife for these circumstances or the lack of your marriage?
00:47:27.560
You know, like you don't have those conversations very often, right? Because they're kind of like,
00:47:32.120
I don't know, socially awkward to have maybe, or, or whatever. So one strategy that I've used in the
00:47:37.900
past where I have some friends that I weren't sure if like-minded and let me pause for a second.
00:47:44.120
We all have friends obviously, but it's ironic. We didn't interview any of them, right? Like
00:47:49.260
your friends are like your spouse, sorry, my, your spouse's friends, or they're guys that you went to
00:47:55.460
high school with or whatever. That doesn't mean they're on the same path as you, right? Um, so we
00:48:01.360
might have some buddies that might be though. And so one strategy that I've used in the past is I grab
00:48:06.980
a specific book and I actually buy him a book and I say, Hey dude, read this book and let me know what
00:48:12.860
you think. Now, if they read the book and they're like, yeah, that was lame. You know, I was hoping
00:48:18.880
for pictures and a better story or whatever. Then that obviously they're not like-minded and,
00:48:23.540
and books that I'm talking about are Sovereignty, Ryan's book, Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink
00:48:31.480
and Leif Babin, No More Mr. Nice Guy, James Allen's As a Man Thinketh, Viktor Frankl's A Man's Search
00:48:43.700
for Meaning, like kind of those foundational books that, that tell, that would be the tall tale sign
00:48:51.680
that if it resonated with them, then they're like-minded, right? They're at least willing to
00:48:56.700
have that conversation. So that's my suggestion. Use books, give books to friends, see if it resonates
00:49:02.680
with them. Um, and then the other part is just be that stellar example and lighthouse so much that
00:49:10.240
guys will start finding you where they'll be like, Hey, you know what, Kip? I want to have a
00:49:15.660
conversation with you. There's something about you, right? There's, you're killing it. Like,
00:49:20.520
what are you doing that I'm not doing? And then you can start having those conversations as well.
00:49:25.480
But yeah, so obviously always focus on who you are, how you're showing up. That's the best way for us
00:49:33.600
to be examples of other individuals. Let your light shine, uh, so people can ask and come to you as
00:49:40.420
well. So those are the strategies. Oh, and one last one, jump on the Facebook group, order of man,
00:49:47.500
facebook.com slash group slash order of man, reach out to other guys that are geographically in your area,
00:49:52.560
have a fight night, you know, schedule a time to go to the range, start having conversations,
00:49:58.060
right? Find those like-minded guys. And unfortunately in our space for guys, anyway,
00:50:02.920
it's rubbing shoulder to shoulder, right? So it's joining a martial arts school, boxing, gym, jujitsu,
00:50:09.720
um, archery, find guys that have common interests, start having those conversations and,
00:50:14.620
and see if you can find those guys. Okay. All right. Um, uh, I'll, I'll Rick, I'll Rick Burke.
00:50:29.380
You can't ensure anything in life, but what are you doing today to prepare your children for tomorrow?
00:50:36.460
So with a fast pace of tech, fast pace of technology and the instant gratification culture we have today,
00:50:43.880
how are you preparing them morally, emotionally, and intellectually?
00:50:57.800
um, I probably dropped the ball in regards to doing this effectively for my older kids,
00:51:06.700
um, which has allowed me to learn that lesson, I hope. Uh, and my wife and I, we kind of have like
00:51:15.800
two batches. We have the older batch, the younger batch. And so we've pivoted, right? And adjusted a
00:51:22.880
little bit and saying, okay, how do we, what adjustments do we need to make for our younger kids
00:51:27.540
to make sure that we don't make the same mistakes, right? That we've made for our older children.
00:51:32.680
Um, and so I'll just kind of share some of those things that, that we're doing. So first off, let's,
00:51:38.720
there's a couple of things that you mentioned here, fast paced technology, instant gratification culture.
00:51:45.880
You create an environment by which they receive gratification over a delayed period of time.
00:51:53.520
Um, um, the author of the boy crisis, he talks about delayed gratification is really a management
00:52:02.360
of dopamine, right? Feel good drug, right? That our body releases. And you get that from a great deal
00:52:11.000
of things. You get it from listening to your parents, believe it or not. You get it from working hard
00:52:16.160
and seeing your success at the end of a hard working day. You get it from following and being
00:52:23.540
in integrity, but guess what? You also get it a huge amount of it from playing video games. You
00:52:29.760
actually get it from doing something wrong from arguing. And so you're really fighting the battle
00:52:38.020
of gratification. And there are so many ways for kids to be, to have gratification, superficial
00:52:49.080
gratification. If you want to use that term via video games and social media and likes, how many
00:52:55.720
likes did I get on my post and, you know, or hearts or whatever that's called on Instagram. And so you're
00:53:01.480
competing with that. And so I would try in as early as possible, start creating these opportunities for
00:53:12.100
your children to find gratification in lasting things, fulfillment. And the things that I would focus on
00:53:21.480
is hard work. I, two weeks ago went down to the parents' house. My parents had the girls with me
00:53:33.640
ages nine, seven, and I have a one-year-old and we literally spent the entire day working from the
00:53:41.880
beginning of the day to almost into the dark. Why? Not because it was fun. It would have been probably
00:53:50.860
easier if they didn't join and they weren't involved in the process, but I want them to feel the
00:53:57.880
gratification of a hard day's work, the gratification of helping someone else, right? Two Sundays. And I
00:54:05.760
don't say these things because I'm like trying to sound like a saint or anything. Half these ideas are
00:54:10.140
really my wife's, but like last, was it last Sunday? Yeah. Last Sunday went to a homeless shelter
00:54:17.440
and at 7 a.m. on a Sunday morning and serve the homeless, right? And help cook and help serve them
00:54:27.820
for hours, like four hours, I think, four or five hours on a Sunday. Why? Not easy, by the way. It
00:54:36.020
would have been easier to let the kids sleep, but we wanted to create the experience for them to get
00:54:41.180
the gratification of serving someone else. Now there's other benefits, obviously, but they see
00:54:47.840
the benefit of it. So start trying to create as many situations as much as possible for our kids to
00:54:54.640
receive and find gratification in doing good. Serving other individuals, finding gratification, working
00:55:02.100
hard, doing difficult things, achieving, following goals, giving to the poor, et cetera, right? Look
00:55:11.040
for those. Now you also asked about preparing them morally, emotionally, intellectually, make them
00:55:17.700
a priority. Help them understand why spirituality is important now, not later, not when they're a
00:55:28.860
little bit older, like they got to understand it now. Why should they have a spiritual relationship
00:55:34.900
with a creator? What's the benefit of that? By the time, at least from my perspective, by the
00:55:41.020
time I think they're old enough to understand, it's kind of, it has started becoming too late
00:55:47.820
to have it be a habit for them. And, and, and for older kids, I would really start having like deeper
00:55:57.400
spiritual conversations and kind of stoic conversations around the importance of living a
00:56:04.420
fulfilled life to understanding the benefit of living a life of purpose with direction and how that plays
00:56:15.020
a part in helping us not feel depressed and suicidal and being blown as a tumbleweed with the wind with
00:56:25.340
whatever society's deciding, like really get clear on this for yourself and integrate your children as
00:56:32.800
quickly and as quickly and as early as possible and understanding the benefits of them, of this to
00:56:38.060
them. Uh, I might be being too hypothetical with you, Alaric, but for us, it's, you know, one of the
00:56:46.140
things like of late, like probably this past year is, you know, I look at my older kids and they don't
00:56:52.200
read enough, right? I'm kind of like, man, you guys hardly ever read books. And there's so much value
00:56:56.260
in reading. I was, I never read books as a kid. And, and so I paused this year and I was like,
00:57:02.540
okay, wait a second. Right. What am I doing for the younger kids? Are they reading? Are they finding
00:57:08.020
the joy in reading? No. And it's really easy to say, well, they're young in school. No, no, no, no.
00:57:13.700
What's where we need to become a reading family, a family that reads, right? Another thing we say
00:57:22.680
nightly prayers, individual ones, right? We might say a prayer as a family, and then we go to our bed
00:57:28.740
and the girls say their individual prayers. I see my individual prayers with them. All right,
00:57:33.880
guys, are you ready? Set go. And we all say our individual prayers. That way we ensure it happens.
00:57:39.300
That's me trying to have them create their own personal relationship and not be reliant on
00:57:44.920
family prayers for them to be praying and pondering on things. The second thing that I would suggest,
00:57:51.700
and I talked about this last week on the AMA with Ryan, is like, we expect our kids to,
00:57:59.380
you know, maybe have delayed gratifications, to have morals and emotional intelligence. And back to
00:58:07.080
the question earlier about do mundane tasks, but do we train them to do any of those things,
00:58:13.080
right? We can't expect our kids to do things that we haven't trained them to do.
00:58:16.520
So what are we doing as parents to train them to build a spiritual relationship,
00:58:23.640
to see the value and morals? And you might have to be super, super creative with this.
00:58:31.360
Running our mouths at the end of the day about, you know, why this is important, now go to bed,
00:58:36.380
may not be sufficient, right? We may need to make it fun, entertaining, and look for a huge amount
00:58:42.560
of opportunities constantly to be able to create this ecosystem by which our kids can start seeing
00:58:47.940
the value of those things. And as always, the example or how we show up is probably the most
00:58:55.460
critical aspect of this all. We need to be clear why that's all important for ourselves. We need to
00:59:01.520
make sure that technology and instant gratification is not showing up in our lives, right? We need to be
00:59:06.520
the ultimate example of this and then look for opportunities to teach our kids. Okay.
00:59:14.840
All right. A couple more questions and we'll go ahead and wrap up. So Skylar
00:59:18.840
Byrne, sorry. How to stay connected with your kids when you have a toxic ex?
00:59:27.860
So I don't know how old the kids are. Skylar, but I'll just, I'm going to throw out a bunch of ideas
00:59:38.120
here. How to stay connected to your kids when you have a toxic ex? First off, don't be toxic.
00:59:46.120
Don't be the other toxic ex. Never speak of your ex in any way. Don't talk negative about her.
00:59:53.660
In fact, go above and beyond. And when they're frustrated with her, help them to have empathy
01:00:00.100
and be slow to judge. Oh, I hate it when mom does this. Oh man, keep in mind. She has a lot going on
01:00:07.920
her plate. Be mindful of your mom. You need to respect her. Like look for the opportunities to
01:00:13.840
speak positive about her. Never go toxic. And you're going to be obviously tempted to do so
01:00:22.900
because if she's saying bad things about you, you're going to want to turn on its head and
01:00:27.100
return the, don't take the higher road, be the greater man,
01:00:31.900
a greater person and don't speak all of them. That's number one. Number two,
01:00:40.460
don't assume that your communication to them goes unnoticed whether they reply or not. I think a lot of
01:00:51.540
single fathers have a tendency to do this. Oh, I text my son all the time for a few weeks,
01:00:58.320
but he never replied. So I stopped. Don't do that. You assume that because they don't reply
01:01:05.720
that the expectation that you had on the communication isn't met. So you're going to
01:01:11.020
stop doing it. Don't do that. Let go of the expectation that you have. They may never reply.
01:01:16.160
They may never send you emoji. They may, when you do have a phone call with them, it'll be like,
01:01:22.680
you know, I don't know. Miserable, right? Hey, how you doing, son? Great. How's school? Great.
01:01:30.620
Right. It like, might be like pulling teeth out, right? It may be miserable, but don't stop
01:01:35.800
because what you are teaching them is that you are there regardless of how they interact or reply
01:01:45.280
with you. So don't give up on your communication. Let go of the expectation that you have on them
01:01:50.840
about how they should be showing up. Back to what I was saying earlier, love them without reason
01:01:57.780
and continue your path of staying connected. Ideas around staying connected. Text messages.
01:02:06.540
Just send them a random text. Thinking about you, son. Love and miss you. Period.
01:02:10.760
Sending them thoughts. Here's a great quote I read in this book, especially if they're older kids.
01:02:15.840
You got to check this out. Watch this YouTube video. Send them an Instagram post that you thought
01:02:21.100
was inspirational. Figure out what's interesting them. I know without a doubt right now,
01:02:27.460
I can send a Mandalorian season two post to my two older boys and they'll be like, awesome.
01:02:34.140
Dad, did you see this, you know, fan created video on Star Wars? Like that's a common interest
01:02:41.100
that we have. So I could take advantage of that and send them those kinds of things. Figure out what
01:02:46.040
they're interested in. Communicate with them. We, we have amazing technology to communicate. We have no
01:02:51.740
reason whatsoever not to be constantly communicated. So use social media, use, um, instant messaging,
01:02:59.540
use video phone calls. Hey, check out this thing that I'm working on. Hey, starting a new goal,
01:03:05.780
just working out. Have you worked out yet today? Like look for those opportunities to talk,
01:03:11.780
constantly stay connected and just continue and let go of any expectation of how they should be replying.
01:03:17.320
And over time, you're going to start getting to a point where your boys are like, Hey, dad, um,
01:03:24.340
I need some advice. Or do you have a recommended book about this? Right. And then you're going to be
01:03:31.540
able to start having those deeper conversations over time because they, they see you as someone that they
01:03:37.180
can reach out to for advice and direction. And whether your ex is toxic or not, you weren't.
01:03:45.680
And they'll be drawn to you because you weren't toxic to them, right? You didn't speak ill of them
01:03:53.100
and you are the example of how you rise above when people think ill of you. And what a great lesson
01:04:03.440
or what a great thing for them to learn of what that looks like, because what are the chances that
01:04:09.120
they're going to have people in their life that is going to speak ill of them and going to think
01:04:13.680
negative of them? Well, great, man. You have this excellent opportunity. You have this person that
01:04:18.940
thinks ill of you, show them how it's done. Show them how you rise above, show them how you make
01:04:25.420
your honor, your integrity, and how you show up in life, the priority and, and regardless of what
01:04:31.540
people think. And you don't stoop down right to those people's level. Okay.
01:04:46.440
How can I be a good mentor to my siblings who are 20 years younger?
01:04:51.680
Zing Alec. Sorry. So Zing, I think it's pronouncing. The best ways is to be the lighthouse. We talk
01:05:05.460
about this in the iron council a lot, right? Be a lighthouse. Don't be a tugboat. You can't force
01:05:10.300
people to do something, but you can be a lighthouse and be inspiring in a way so much that people will
01:05:19.380
seek you out as a mentor, right? I don't, I can't think of any circumstances, at least in my life.
01:05:27.960
And I'm probably assuming a lot of us couldn't where we were someone's mentor because we chose to
01:05:33.720
be their mentor. I don't think it works that way. Um, now if they've sought you out and you are kind of
01:05:42.720
their built-in mentor, how do you be a good one? You become a great person that makes you a great
01:05:51.080
mentor and a great person in all areas, right? Um, or at least mentor in the areas that you are good
01:05:59.280
at. Um, Ryan talks about this quite a bit, right? We, we don't have a, a mentor. Like my mentor in
01:06:07.060
jujitsu is not my mentor in business and my mentor in business does not provide mentorship in
01:06:12.500
relationships. Those are different people. So figure out, uh, how you can provide some value
01:06:19.740
to your siblings, um, be that lighthouse for them. And, and it's really about how you show up and
01:06:26.900
sharing yourself with them as much as possible. And, and there's huge value in sharing your lessons
01:06:33.880
versus preaching. Um, also known as a testimony versus preaching. Testimonies are powerful. Why?
01:06:42.360
Because you're not saying, Hey, you should do X. You suggest, Hey, you know what? I learned this.
01:06:49.440
This is what worked for me. And it gives them the freedom to try it on for themselves.
01:06:54.980
Be careful not to be preachy, especially with siblings that, that, that could be rubbed wrong
01:07:02.560
and maybe not ideal. And it's actually just quite less effective. So just share yourself.
01:07:08.260
Um, but let them seek you out as a mentor and just be a good example until then.
01:07:15.680
Okay. Um, last one, we'll do one more. Uh, Gary Tate, what would you suggest some ways to
01:07:26.020
disengage or withdraw from an argument that is getting emotional?
01:07:32.560
Well, disengage and withdraw, at least for me means just walk away, right? Like literally
01:07:42.420
disengage from it. Assuming that you don't want to do that because you could just disengage. I don't
01:07:48.360
know ways like you, you just start, you stop. That's how you disengage. However, if what you're
01:07:56.640
maybe asking Gary is like, how do I not, how do I disengage my emotions? That might be a different
01:08:03.440
thing. And I, and I think we've kind of answered this question earlier. It's, it's understanding
01:08:08.520
people getting it, like just really honestly getting it and not having people's intellectual,
01:08:20.300
intellectual understanding of something means something about themselves or making it mean
01:08:28.000
something about you, right? It gets emotional. A great book on this, by the way, is crucial
01:08:32.880
conversations. So look into that, um, because there's some strategy, right? You and I can't
01:08:37.560
have a crucial conversation if, if we don't have trust, right? You and I can't deal with something
01:08:42.800
if there's no trust. So that's a problem, right? And so there's some prerequisites to
01:08:49.280
certain conversations. And, and sometimes we have a feeling that like, you know, maybe
01:08:56.160
it's someone I don't trust, but we're going to have an argument and he, I'm going to somehow
01:08:59.800
like change his mind. Like it doesn't work that way. Right. And, and so consider what are
01:09:05.620
the prerequisites need to exist in the conversation? The other part is what's the objective, right?
01:09:12.800
Is it to hear ourselves yell? Is it our, to make ourselves right? And if, and, and be mindful
01:09:18.620
at least what your objective is and they don't have to be the same, right? The other individual
01:09:24.100
might have the objective of trying to change your mind. Maybe your objective, Gary, is to
01:09:28.400
understand them because you're looking for a different viewpoint or you would, you're curious
01:09:34.520
on how someone would understand something so, so drastically different than you. Make that
01:09:40.420
the mission. So, but understand that, that there needs to be some prerequisites right to
01:09:46.860
the conversation. And then to disengage emotionally, most emotion ultimately roots back to our ego
01:09:56.440
and the avoidance of looking bad and trying to look good. Well, let go of that. You don't
01:10:03.520
need someone else's opinion to, to validate yourself. So be comfortable in your own thought
01:10:11.480
process. Listen to understand. And if they see it different, then realize they just see it
01:10:19.060
different, right? You're so much of our emotional conversations is the meaning that we create around
01:10:26.180
the conversation. Oh, I can't believe they said that. They said, blah, blah, blah. Well, why are you
01:10:30.480
so mad? Cause you made that mean something about you and, or them? Oh, well, if they see that,
01:10:37.100
then this, this, that really, right? How often have we seen this? I'm going to get on it. So
01:10:41.960
how, how often do we see this bullshit, right? Oh, if you're voting for this or you have this
01:10:48.200
mentality, you can unfriend me right now. Why? Because if you see something a certain way,
01:10:55.460
then that must mean blah. Really? Does it? Could it mean that I actually misunderstand the
01:11:03.020
circumstance and I bought into, I don't know, social circles that I'm part of, and I've
01:11:10.840
identified myself with a particular tribe. And so I'm being really ignorant. Instead of looking
01:11:15.180
into the details, I'm just going along to get along because I think that political group aligns with
01:11:20.760
what I think. Possibly. Could it also mean that I understand the circumstance better than you do?
01:11:29.060
And that me being in your life might be really important, right? It's all meaning that we're
01:11:34.520
adding to everything constantly, right? I was just having this conversation with my
01:11:38.520
seven-year-old daughter the other day. If you don't mind me sharing that, we're going to use the
01:11:42.360
seven-year-old daughter, Gary, to work through this question. My apologies. I think it's a good
01:11:46.200
example though, is who knows my nine-year-old. Oh, I'm so frustrated. Why? Well, you know,
01:11:53.600
with her younger sister, she constantly does this, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and it makes you mad. Yeah,
01:11:57.960
it does. It makes you mad. Okay. Well, can you change her? No, I can't change her. Can you make
01:12:04.260
her do something different? No, I can't. Okay. What can you change? Well, I could not play with her
01:12:12.140
and just ignore, you know, stay away from her. Oh, that's true. You could do that. You could avoid
01:12:17.360
the conversations. Um, but do you still have some kind of feelings that might make you a little bit
01:12:24.100
angry, even though you're not hanging out with her? Yeah. Yeah. I'd still have those feelings. Okay.
01:12:28.100
Um, what else do you have control over? Do you have a control over your mind? How you see things?
01:12:35.080
Yeah. Yeah. But I see it because of the way she does something. Oh, okay. Well, what did she do?
01:12:40.880
She did ABC. Oh, okay. Well, her doing that means that about you? Yeah. Who, who decided that?
01:12:52.380
Oh, I did. Okay. That's your perception, right? Your sister doing a certain thing doesn't mean
01:13:01.220
that she, in this example, doesn't like you. That just means that she did X. That's it.
01:13:10.040
You decide the interpretation of people's conversation. You determine the perception
01:13:15.360
of people's actions. And sometimes we just don't know, right? So we can gather more data or whatever,
01:13:22.940
but maybe just not even follow it to a conclusion of what it means about anything. Cause guess what?
01:13:26.840
You probably don't know. So just get logical about the understanding of the conversation and you can
01:13:33.540
really approach it from a non-emotional perspective. And, and really, and at least for me, when I go into
01:13:39.700
a kind of a conversation like this and I remove the emotion, I start getting curious and it starts
01:13:46.680
becoming a curious conversation. And, and now my focus is not about changing perspectives and creating
01:13:55.000
meaning as just understanding and understanding why someone would feel something or feel a particular
01:14:01.680
way or think a certain way. And that's just impactful. And then they feel even listened to,
01:14:06.640
and then you can walk away. Guess what? With no conclusion. That's really interesting. Cool.
01:14:13.760
Man, if we could just do that, how powerful would, how much different would society be if we just did that?
01:14:20.280
Be quite amazing. All right, guys, we're going to wrap up. Hopefully that was beneficial guys
01:14:27.300
for future. Ask me any things or AMAs. You can submit your questions on the Facebook group. That's
01:14:33.280
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01:14:38.580
which we filled questions from as well to learn more about the iron council,
01:14:42.500
go to order of man.com slash iron council. For some of you guys, we have 12 weeks remaining out
01:14:49.900
of the year. You may have read sovereignty Ryan's book. You may have also read the book a 12 week
01:14:57.080
year, but regardless their strategies around 12 weeks and 90 day goal setting, you got 90 days
01:15:06.360
to finish off 22 strong, to get on that court, to assist you in that process of rising up and getting
01:15:15.140
on the path and making some progress. Look into the battle ready program. It is a free program in which
01:15:22.400
you can sign up, which will guide you through the process of establishing a vision objectives and
01:15:27.440
tactics and help you wrap up this year. Strong to learn more, go to order of man.com slash battle
01:15:36.280
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01:15:42.760
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01:16:03.320
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01:16:09.440
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01:16:25.520
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