The Loneliness of Leadership ｜ FRIDAY FIELD NOTES
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Summary
You re a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You re not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler,
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and I am the host and founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here. Welcome
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back. Guys, I've got big plans for 2021. I don't want to dismiss the next, what, two weeks that we
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have of this year, 2020. I've been thinking a lot about what we're going to do for the remainder of
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2020, and I hope that the information that we continue to present to you is valuable and insightful
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and helps you lead your life more effectively as a man. But 2021, I am so excited about. So
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if you haven't subscribed, if you haven't left your rating and review for the podcast,
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if you haven't banded with us on social media platforms, then I'm telling you, you're going
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to want to do that right now. I've got travel plans. We've got several big, big guests coming
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on. They're going to offer immense insight and value into their lives, which ideally will translate
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into your life. And that's what we're doing here with the Order of Man podcast is translating
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that information over to you. So then you can take that information and you can improve your life.
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So we've had Marcus and Morgan Latrell on. We had Eddie Gallagher several weeks ago. I just recorded
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it with Steven Ranella, which is coming out in the next week or two humble the poet. And I've got some
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other guests lined up that I'm not going to disclose right now, but just subscribe. I'm
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telling you guys, just subscribe right now. All right. I've got a good one lined up for you today.
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I actually asked our Facebook group, what they wanted me to talk about for our Friday field notes.
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I got a lot of great suggestions that on what we should talk about, but I got one specifically
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from his name and I'm sorry if I butcher this, his name is Christopher Moynihan. I hope I pronounced
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that correctly, but Christopher Moynihan, he wanted me to talk about the loneliness of leadership.
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I thought that was a good subject because there's been times in my life as, as a leader of my family.
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And of course this movement where I have felt lonely and isolated. So we're going to address that
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today. But before I do, there's one other announcement that I've been kind of leading up to
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for several months now. We're just one step closer. So I want to make you aware of this.
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You guys have broken me down to the point where I have worked very, very closely with my good
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friends at origin on creating, formulating, and launching our own 100% made and sourced in America
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beard oil from the ingredients that go into the oil to the labels, to the packaging. In fact,
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the packaging, which is this really cool cardboard packaging was done here in Maine. Everything is
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sourced and made in America. And that's what of course origin is all about. So we're launching
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our very first lineup. We've got a few new tweaks, a few new interesting things that you haven't seen
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before, including a citronella scent. So guys, this is going to be awesome. And I'm asking for your
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help if you have a beard and you have a beard oil that works great. But if you want to grow a beard
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or you don't have a beard oil that you are, that you are a diehard of, and you feel like,
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Hey, I want to try something new. And you want to support not only what we're doing here,
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but support an organization, a company that makes and sources everything in America,
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then I got to have you check out this beard oil. Now the challenge with this is,
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this is a very new thing. We're just trying this out. I've partnered up with origin on this.
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They've taken the lead I've consulted, but, uh, they've invested a lot of money in this,
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but we've only got a very limited run. It's a very, very limited run. And like anything they do,
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it's done extremely, extremely well. If you're even remotely interested, here's what I need you to do.
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Go to originbeardoil.com. That's it. Just go right now. Just go to originbeardoil.com.
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Drop in your email. We're going to give you some other information. There's going to be in some,
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some incentives and some perks for those who have their name on that email.
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And in all likelihood, based on what we see happening with our beard oil product is that
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we'll burn through our first and our initial inventory very, very quickly. In fact, I'm
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wondering if we'll even have an opportunity to get it out to the public because of the demand and
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also because of the limited run that we have. So again, just go to originbeardoil.com. We're
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going to release it to you guys who sign up first and then, and only then if there's anything left
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over, then we'll release it to the public. So if you're interested in supporting an American
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made manufacturing company, interested in supporting what we're doing here and interesting
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in having, you know, a beautiful beard, right? That's what you want. You want, you don't want
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a nice beard. You want it shaped well, you want it to look good. And of course you don't want the
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itchiness that comes sometimes with having a beard. We're trying to solve all those problems. So
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originbeardoil.com support us, support origin, support your beard. All right, guys, originbeardoil.com.
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Now with that out of the way, let's talk about Christopher Moynihan's question or topic that
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he wanted me to address today, which is the loneliness of leadership. And look guys, I know
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it's lonely, you know, as, as, as a father, sometimes you feel like you, you don't have
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somebody in your corner to be able to talk with these or talk about with these difficult and
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demanding situations and circumstances at work. You know, you've got employees to care for,
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you've got team members to provide for. And so it's, it's lonely. It doesn't get lonely
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at the top at times if you do it incorrectly. So the title of the podcast is a little bit
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of a misnomer because the title of the podcast is a loneliness of leadership. But if you do
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this correctly, you won't be lonely. And so I believe that there's a misconception that
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it's lonely at the top or that you have to be lonely at the top or that you're obligated
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to walk this leadership path alone. You're not, you're not. If you do it correctly,
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everything will be fine. You'll have men in your life. You'll have women in your life.
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You'll have the relationships and you'll have everything that you need to support, the guidance,
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the instruction, everything that you need to be able to thrive, not only as a man, but a
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leader of your home and your business and your community. So what I want to do today is I thought
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about what I wanted to address based on Christopher's question is give you some, some thoughts,
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some ideas on how you can avoid feeling lonely. People, human beings are social creatures.
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We don't want to feel lonely. We feel isolated. And in fact, up until relatively recently, if we were
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alone and isolated, we run the risk of potentially being dead, right? We've always been social creatures
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and we've always banded with other individuals in our tribe and our organizations and our communities
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and our families to help us thrive. And so it's a, it's a, it's damaging to believe that you have to
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be alone just because you're a leader. You don't now things have to change. And Jocko Willink talks
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quite a bit about the dichotomy of leadership when it comes to being so close and not being totally
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attached to your personnel and to your team, being close enough to, to, to be able to lead them
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effectively, but distant enough to be able to keep yourself in, in the position of authority.
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So there is a dichotomy here, but there's, there's ways to do this. And I'm going to explain it.
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And what we need to understand first and foremost is that, you know, you're not always going to be
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liked. You're not always going to be popular. A leader stands by his convictions and by his
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principles and he casts vision and he helps people get to where they want to go or a place they could
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not have imagined going on their own. That's what a leader does. And if you do that, you're going to
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ruffle feathers. You're going to say things that aren't comfortable. You're going to ask things of
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people that maybe they don't feel like they can do. They've never done. They don't fully understand.
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And that's challenging. And if you get too close to these individuals, it becomes harder and harder.
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You know, it's a, it's tempting to become friends and buddies with the people that you're leading,
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but that's also a challenge because they take this relationship so casually and nonchalant that
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it's a, that undermines and diminishes your ability to lead these people effectively,
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to be able to ask them to do things that aren't comfortable, that are challenging,
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that are difficult, that they don't think they can do. And so there is this dichotomy here,
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but the first step to realizing that not only is leadership, can it be lonely, but how to overcome it
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is that, um, creating and setting realistic expectations for your leadership,
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right? Like if you think that you're just going to be able to buddy up to every,
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we'll just say subordinate, and that could be a team leader or your, your child or your,
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your, your employees, whatever. We'll just use the term subordinate for, for the sake of argument
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right here. If you think you're just going to chum up and buddy up with those individuals,
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that's an unrealistic, unrealistic expectation. The realistic expectation is that you won't be
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able to chum up with them, that you won't be able to buddy up with them, that you're probably not
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going to get invited to the things like, but you don't need that, right? Like you should be able to
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have an external source of power. I'm going to get into that in a minute here, but you should have
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some external source of the relationships and the information and the conversations and the
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camaraderie that you need. But if you're looking for that from your team, you're going to set yourself
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up for failure. You're going to feel isolated. You're going to feel let down and you're actually
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going to undermine your ability to lead effectively. I say this quite often with my children. My job is
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not to be my children's friend. Now I can be friendly. There's elements of being a friend that
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go into leading effectively, but you're not your subordinates friends. You're not your daughter or
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your son's friend. You're not your employee's friend. Okay. You're their employer. You're their team
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leader. You're their father. And there's elements of that. There's elements of being friendly and kind
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empathetic and understanding and just humane, just understanding their situation. But you're
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you're in an elevated position. Fatherhood is an elevated position. It's better. It's more
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significant. It's more meaningful than friends. So I'm never going to step off the pedestal of
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masculine, excuse me, fatherhood and step down to this lower tier of friend. Why would I do that?
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I'm never going to step down from this tier of leading the iron council, which is our exclusive
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brotherhood. I'm never going to step down from leading this organization so that I can chum up
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with you guys and be buddies. And I'm very clear about that. And you should be very clear about that.
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And the people I lead are very clear about that. Now there's some that I'm closer to than others
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because we've developed and built these relationships and that's bound to happen.
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But I know where the boundaries are and I know what my role and responsibility is.
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And so if you think that you're going to be buddy, buddy and chummy with everybody that you come in
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contact with, and that if people just, you know, really like who you are, that you're going to be
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able to lead them effectively. That's a false sense of expectations. And you're not only are you going
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to let yourself down and be disappointed, you're going to let them down. And you're going to let the
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team know. So people need to understand the boundaries. You need to understand what the
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boundaries are and your subordinates need to understand what the boundaries are.
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And when those boundaries get crossed or they get bumped up against, you're the one that needs
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to enforce those boundaries. Now there's ways to do that tactfully. There's ways to do that,
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that are meaningful and significant. And people see that, yes, you care, although you may not be a
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friend to that individual, but that you're their employer or your father or whatever role you're
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filling in. There's ways to do that tactfully, but you do have to uphold the boundaries.
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You have to, because if you prove that you can be walked all over or that a subordinate can treat
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you like a buddy, like my, every once in a while, my oldest son, cause he's, he's getting older now.
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He's getting close to his teenage years. And he thinks, you know, he's trying to figure out where
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the line is and identify his independence and all of this stuff. And while I can certainly appreciate
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and understand that occasionally I have to remind him that I'm not your buddy. You don't talk to me
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like I'm your friend. You remember who you're talking to. You're talking to your father,
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which is significantly more important than any relationship that you'll ever have with your
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buddy. So I'm not your buddy. We're friendly. We love each other. I love you. I support you. I,
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I, I, I edify you up. I uplift you, but I also discipline you. So you remember who you're talking
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to. That's just one small example of how you might not need to uphold the boundaries. Same thing with
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a friend. You know, if you go out drinking and get wasted and sloshed on the weekend with an
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employee, how do you think they're going to look at you when you get into the office and you ask them
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to get that report to you on time? How's that going to work? Like he just saw you in the most
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vulnerable position. He saw you acting like a complete asshole. He saw you lose all inhibition.
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And then you think you're going to be able to have some, some level of authority and respect
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with this individual. No, of course not. So don't place yourself in these, these positions,
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clearly define the boundaries, what the expectations are, communicate those expectations,
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and that's going to help. All right. So number two is find your own source of strength. See what I'll
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see. I see a lot of men do is they'll turn to their wife. They'll turn to their kids. They'll
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turn to their employees or their subordinates in some way. And they'll ask either consciously or
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subconsciously for them to edify them, to uplift them, to provide them with some sort of significance
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or meaning. And if I have to turn to my employees or my subordinates in that way, I diminish and I
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undermine and I reduce credibility with those individuals because they see me as weak.
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They see me as not having it figured out. And look guys, it's okay to be vulnerable at times.
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I'm not telling you not to expose some of that. I'll have conversations with my boys and my daughter
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about things, you know, mistakes that I've made and the ways that I'm trying to improve. And frankly,
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I've apologized to my children at times for lashing out or becoming over reactional to a situation.
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And I've tried to make amends. So I'm not suggesting that you don't be vulnerable.
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I'm simply suggesting that you remember where you sit and where they sit.
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And if you're constantly asking them either consciously or subconsciously to provide value
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and meaning and significance and purpose and validation to your life, they're going to look
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at you like a loser at worst at best. They're going to look at you as a peer and you're not a peer as a
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leader. I'm not my child's peer. I'm not my employee's peer. I'm the team leader. I'm the owner of the
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business. I'm the father that is not peer peer to peer relationships. So I can express some measure
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of vulnerability when I think that it will serve them. And please understand that if I'm being
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vulnerable for the sake of being vulnerable, because it's a buzzword and people think that's
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what they're supposed to do. That's not really actually serving anybody. The only time that I'm
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going to be vulnerable is because I think it might serve the people I'm trying to lead.
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All right. There has to be purpose to your vulnerability, but I don't look to my kids for strength.
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That's a, that's a weird to me, actually. Like, why would you look to your children for strength?
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They're looking to you for strength, not the other way around, because if you're looking to them for
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strength and then your leader, and that's not the dichot, that's not the, the, the dynamic.
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That's not how it works. They're looking to you for leadership. So you have to go outside of this
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and you have to look for your own strength somewhere else. And that could come in the form of hobbies,
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activities, interests, pursuits, all these kinds of things. It could come in the, in the form of
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finding other people, other men who aren't in your circle or who aren't your subordinates to be able
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to lead and guide and instruct and coach and mentor and give you what you need mentally and physically.
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But it doesn't happen in this circle over here. It happens in a completely different circle.
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And so in a lot of ways, we need to isolate ourselves from the team, right? I need to isolate,
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for example, even in my family, I isolate myself from my children, not physically isolate,
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but mentally isolate. And so there's times where I'll say, Hey, you guys go to bed. And then that's
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when my wife and I will talk about the dynamic of the family, but I don't talk about it with them.
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My wife supports me. I support her. She gives me strength. I give her strength. And then we work
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upon that strength and we feed off each other to lead our family effectively. It's the same thing
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in business. You don't go to your subordinates and ask, Hey, can you help me with this? Because
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I'm really struggling and I need your, no, you don't do that there. That's not to say you don't
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need it. You just go find it somewhere else outside of this circle. And you go find it in a different
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circle, which leads me to, um, point number three is evolve your band of brothers, evolve your
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mentors, evolve your coaches and figure out ways to get around other people who you will
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be led by. So I think in order to be an effective and a great leader, you also have to be able
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to be led. If you're incapable of being led because you're too arrogant or you're too prideful
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and you think you have it all figured out, then you'll never be able to effectively lead.
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You need to understand what it's like to be a follower. You need to feel that you need
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to experience that you need to be subordinate to somebody else. You have to, because if you're
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not like, how can you ever extend, understand your subordinates position? You can't, you can't
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ever understand what that's like. And so there's this just like butting heads in this contention,
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like, why don't these people understand it? But if you're subordinate to somebody else,
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maybe that's a coach or a mentor. Maybe that's another team leader. Maybe that's a peer of your
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own. Maybe that's a higher spiritual power. Then you understand what it's like to follow,
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which will give you a greater capacity to be able to lead because you can put yourself in these
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individual shoes. So what you need, which is camaraderie and brotherhood and accountability
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and insight, what you need can not and should not be provided by your subordinates. It should be
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provided by your peers or those you've brought in to lead you. The greatest athletes in the world,
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the highest performing entrepreneurs, the most successful people that you've ever seen.
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They're not above having a coach. They're not above having a mentor. In fact, those individuals
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understand more than other people, how powerful it is to have somebody in your corner who can tell you
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what you need to be told, who can coach you, who can critique you, who can give you insight that you
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can't see for yourself, but you have to get it from somewhere else. You can't get it from your
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subordinates. You have to get it from somewhere else. And if you don't have a band of brothers
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and you don't have peers and you don't have coaches and mentors, then you're leaving room on the table
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for you to effectively lead others because you just don't understand what it's like.
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And the fourth component of that is never get too great or important for this level of mentorship.
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And this ties kind of into the point that I was just making, but you, you, you can't be too
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important for mentorship guys. Like if you buy into your own bullshit, you're not going to serve
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yourself or others well. And that's what you want to do as a leader, right? Like you want to lead
00:20:57.700
effectively. You want to help others get to a place they could not have imagined going on their own.
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But if you've bought into your own hype and you believe that you've got it all figured out or that
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you're important or more important than somebody else, then how is that going to affect your team?
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It's going to affect it negatively, right? They're going to look at you, not as somebody who can lead
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them effectively, but somebody, somebody who's delusional and arrogant and prideful and boastful.
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And that undermines your trust and credibility and authority. So, although if we were to look at the
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hierarchy of your organization or the hierarchy of your family, yes, technically in that hierarchy,
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if you were to map it out, you would be above that individual, but never feel like you're more
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important than a person. Never feel like you've got everything figured out and they have nothing
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figured out. Understand that there's, there is a hierarchy. Yes. But the worth of a human can't
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be measured, right? Like you're not more worthy as a human. You're intrinsic human value than another
00:22:08.220
person. You might bring more to the organization, but if you make people feel like dog shit,
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they're not going to perform for you. So never be too great for humility. Never be too great to
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realize that you don't have it all figured out and that it would actually behoove you to have other
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advisors who could come in and consult and instruct and coach and lead. And you know what? Maybe you
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recognize a team member who's exceptionally good at organization or exceptionally good at communication
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or exceptionally good at presentation. Why would you be above bringing that individual in and saying,
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okay, here's my role and responsibility as the team leader, but here's what I want you to do because
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you are exceptionally good at this thing. The reason we wouldn't do that is because we're prideful,
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right? Because if you bring somebody else in that potentially poses a threat to you and what you
00:23:02.320
can provide. I found the opposite to be true. As I bring people into the right places and I edify them
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and I uplift them and I compliment them and I allow them to do what they're good at so they can thrive.
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The team thrives. The team looks at me more favorably.
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So you don't have to be lonely guys. You don't. I think you're going to be isolated to a degree.
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That's just the nature of it. But if you're feeling lonely, then you're running in the wrong circles
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or you don't have a circle at all. So as we wrap things up, let me recap and tell you what you need
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to do. Number one, set realistic expectations between you and your team members. There's got to be a
00:23:45.340
degree of separation. If there isn't, sometimes you're too close and that undermines what the
00:23:49.320
team is trying to do. Number two is finding your own source of strength, hobbies, interest, activities,
00:23:56.540
pursuits, a band of brothers, other people, guys that, that have no relation to what you're doing
00:24:03.780
so that you can get close to those individuals and not so close to your teammates, which would
00:24:09.140
undermine your authority, credibility, and the betterment of the team. Number three, evolve that band
00:24:14.960
of brothers. So if we were again, to look at the hierarchy, you might have felt like you were here
00:24:20.020
at this level and maybe you got a promotion or maybe you started a business or maybe you had a
00:24:25.540
child. And so now you've evolved from that level of peers and you've evolved to up here or here or
00:24:32.420
here or here, right? So you've evolved past that. And as you do, it would be tempting to come back down
00:24:39.540
because you know, all these people, right? You know that, that the people that you've been
00:24:44.960
around forever and those are your peers now, but as you grow and those people don't, some of them
00:24:49.600
will, some of them won't. Let's say the ones that don't, are you going to come off that rung of
00:24:53.760
leadership so that you can be comfortable and around those people that you're familiar with?
00:24:58.060
No, of course not. You shouldn't anyways. What you should be constantly doing is evolving
00:25:02.640
your peers. So if you were here and now you're here, you need to find peers who are in this circle
00:25:08.600
and as you evolve, evolve, evolve. And so I see a lot of sense of, of, uh, misguided loyalty,
00:25:16.580
like, Oh, I've been friends with this guy for, you know, 40 years. And now I'm kind of moving on.
00:25:21.320
Well, yes, that's going to happen. You're going to have people who aren't going to move at the same
00:25:25.880
pace as you. That doesn't mean you can't be friendly, but your relationships are going to evolve
00:25:30.960
and you should evolve with that as well. And then the last thing is never be too great or
00:25:34.580
important for mentorship, never be too great or important to realize that other people might
00:25:41.280
have some things figured out that you don't, and they could actually serve you well and the team
00:25:45.220
well. And you give those people opportunities to thrive and you look for those opportunities from
00:25:51.640
other people, not necessarily in your peer group, but from people who are maybe more advanced or
00:25:56.380
better off or more capable than you are. And I think if you do those four things and you do those
00:26:02.100
things consistently and you embrace that, you don't have to be lonely. You know, people say,
00:26:07.360
Oh, it's lonely at the top. Only if you're not looking for other leaders, like people have gone
00:26:12.140
before you. If you think you're going to go somewhere, nobody has ever gone before.
00:26:17.760
That's probably not going to happen. Like other people have created businesses. Other people have
00:26:21.840
successful podcasts. Other people have been successful fathers. Find them. Those that's
00:26:27.180
your new group, right? So when I think about what I want to accomplish in this business,
00:26:31.140
I'm constantly looking for people who haven't figured out better than I do. And I spend time
00:26:35.100
with them and I buy their courses and I buy their programs and I get involved. And initially I call
00:26:39.300
them acquaintances. And over time I begin to call them friends and peers because of what we've been able
00:26:43.860
to accomplish together. So if you feel like you're lonely, it's because you're not incorporating
00:26:48.440
these things and you're looking to your team for some sort of validation or something that
00:26:54.460
frankly is not theirs to give. It's not appropriate. Okay. So look at those things that you need from
00:27:02.480
different sources. So you don't feel lonely. You have the mental and physical support. You have the
00:27:07.920
information. Then you can go instruct your team and then you can come back to your mentors and then go
00:27:11.300
instruct your team and so on and so forth. That's how you be an effective leader. And that's how you
00:27:16.080
avoid feeling lonely at the top. It's not lonely at the top. It's only lonely. If you're looking in
00:27:21.620
the wrong places, look in the right places, you will be much more successful. It will serve you
00:27:26.200
well. And ultimately it's going to serve your team better. The more capable you are, the more capable
00:27:31.520
your team will be. Okay. All right, guys. So again, that question was from, or the topic was from
00:27:36.840
Christopher Moynihan. If you guys are interested in submitting your own thoughts and ideas and questions
00:27:42.280
for our ask them anything or for Friday field notes, then join our Facebook group,
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00:27:52.500
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We're going to let you know when it comes available, which I imagine will be in the next two to four
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00:28:26.540
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00:28:31.980
The poet is coming on. Um, I've got like four other interviews that are all lined up and recorded.
00:28:37.220
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