Order of Man - The Lost Art of Communication, Finding a Calling, The Meaning of Sports

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:06.020 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.480 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.520 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.760 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:25.280 Hey, what's up, man? Glad to be back for the next Ask Me Anything, the next installment.

00:00:28.920 I think we've had, I don't know, three, four episodes now with the same questions, or the same list of questions, I should say.

00:00:35.940 We got so many questions last time.

00:00:38.000 Yeah, and it's super tempting sometimes when we have an old batch to just move on and just ask new questions

00:00:48.020 because it's like somehow maybe the questions may not be relevant, but these are really good questions.

00:00:54.680 And I think a lot of them are timeless questions because a lot of people say,

00:00:58.620 do you get sick of answering the same questions over and over again?

00:01:01.580 And I mean, the truthful answer is kind of yes, because I wish people would just learn.

00:01:05.580 But I don't have a problem if somebody new is asking a question that somebody else has asked before.

00:01:10.980 What I have a problem with is when the same dude asks the same damn question over and over and over again.

00:01:16.780 It's like, we already told you.

00:01:18.380 We already gave you the answer.

00:01:19.780 We already gave you our insight.

00:01:21.180 Nothing has changed on our end.

00:01:23.360 So go implement it and see if it works.

00:01:26.440 Or if you're looking for something else, just do whatever the hell you want then.

00:01:29.760 Don't ask questions.

00:01:30.560 Just do what you feel like you want to do because obviously you're not interested.

00:01:33.660 That to me is frustrating.

00:01:34.680 If we wanted to get really organized, I guess we could document every question, assign it to an AMA number, and then whenever the repeat question comes up, we'll just say, listen to Ask Me Anything, Episode 5.

00:01:47.420 I don't want to be that organized, dude.

00:01:48.860 You mean that wouldn't be entertaining to the listeners of the podcast?

00:01:54.680 That would be funny is that we have like three dozen questions, and the whole time we're like, AMA 10, AMA 12, AMA 5, and that's all we did the entire time.

00:02:05.800 Oh, man.

00:02:06.740 I like it.

00:02:07.320 I like where your head's at.

00:02:08.840 Yeah, it's a knowledge management system.

00:02:11.140 Yeah, that's where you come in, Kip.

00:02:13.560 That's why you've been helpful with this whole movement because I am not the organized one.

00:02:18.240 We were talking before this conversation, and you had all these little charts and these graphs, and I don't know if you saw my face, but my eyes were probably just like completely glossed over like, uh, I realize it's importance, but it's so hard for me to focus on that stuff.

00:02:33.000 Yeah, you looked at those and just thought slash, forward slash, who cares?

00:02:38.200 That's exactly right.

00:02:41.100 Well, should we get into it, man?

00:02:42.380 Let's get into these questions.

00:02:43.380 Guys, if you're listening for the first time to an Ask Me Anything, this is where Kip and myself, we answer questions from our Patreon members.

00:02:52.960 We just updated our wall of patrons as well on our website, so that's at patreon.com slash order of man.

00:03:01.940 It's also from our Facebook group, which is at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man.

00:03:06.780 And then it's also from our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council, and we've got some new updates that we're working on just today, in fact.

00:03:14.400 And, uh, that can be found at order of man.com slash Iron Council.

00:03:19.600 Oh, also, I do have to say one other thing, Kip.

00:03:22.260 I just yesterday released a new course because I got so many questions about how to start a podcast that I figured we just put out a, a four week podcast course.

00:03:32.160 It's called podcast pro.

00:03:34.020 So this is not for guys who want to be weekend warriors or just something for a hobby.

00:03:39.440 This is, if you want to become a professional podcaster, that's what this course is for.

00:03:45.060 So we're going to shut it down here in the next couple of weeks.

00:03:47.680 It starts on March 1st.

00:03:49.200 And if you go to order of man.com slash podcast pro, you will figure out what it's all about and you can get registered over there as well.

00:03:57.280 And that influx of people being interested in, um, becoming podcasters was a result of what, Ryan?

00:04:06.660 Uh, I don't know if it was an influx.

00:04:08.700 I just like constantly and steadily, um, may, maybe, I don't know, maybe, maybe you're trying to get at something.

00:04:15.740 I don't know.

00:04:16.060 I'm, well, I mean, you, you posed the question, you know, you made a comment, I think it was on Facebook of that in the month of February, we're going to, uh, uh, go over 10 million.

00:04:28.220 Oh, that's right.

00:04:29.460 Yeah.

00:04:29.880 That kind of, that kind of spawned this, Hey Ryan, you know, you should do a podcast course or, you know what I mean?

00:04:36.280 That kind of spawned that whole conversation a little bit.

00:04:38.340 Yeah, no, I, I, I couldn't, I couldn't quite wrap my head around what, what you were getting at.

00:04:42.640 So I appreciate you saying that, but I tried, I tried, you tried, you tried really hard and I'm just a dunce sometimes.

00:04:49.180 So you just have to come out straight out and say it.

00:04:51.680 Uh, yeah, no, you're right.

00:04:52.620 We're going to hit 10 million downloads this month, which is very, very cool.

00:04:56.580 Uh, last month we had a 26% increase in podcast downloads.

00:05:03.400 And I had one guy, everybody's like, Oh, congrats, congrats.

00:05:05.680 That's awesome.

00:05:06.240 Well, deserved.

00:05:06.780 And then I had one guy say, well, it's because David Goggins.

00:05:09.640 And look, let's be real here.

00:05:14.420 Part of that is because I had the David Goggins podcast.

00:05:17.060 I mean, the download numbers were there for his show, but to discount four years of work

00:05:23.180 to actually land a conversation with David Goggins is a huge mistake.

00:05:30.220 And so many guys do that.

00:05:31.980 They discount what it takes to be successful.

00:05:35.240 They write it off as like, Oh, you just got lucky.

00:05:36.960 Cause you had David Goggins on the podcast.

00:05:38.480 Well, look, if I didn't do four years of work leading up to that conversation with David

00:05:43.300 Goggins, do you believe that David Goggins would actually come on my podcast?

00:05:46.880 I mean, he, he told me that he turned down over 200 podcast interview requests.

00:05:52.280 I would have been on the bottom of the list had I not done the work for the four years.

00:05:55.840 So I just, I really want to caution and warn men who discount what it takes to be successful.

00:06:04.440 Not because I, I'm, my pride is wounded or anything like that.

00:06:08.320 That's not what I'm talking about.

00:06:09.120 What I'm saying is that if you discount a guy who's extremely fit as simply having good genes or a guy

00:06:18.360 that's been married for 30 years, Oh, he just got lucky and found the right one.

00:06:22.540 Or the guy who's built an extreme amount and level of wealth in his life just happened to be in the right place

00:06:29.460 at the right time.

00:06:31.160 Then what you run the risk of doing is saying to yourself, well, the reason I don't have fill in the blank

00:06:38.620 is because I just haven't got lucky yet.

00:06:42.960 And that represents a very, very small percentage of the men who build success on any level in their lives.

00:06:53.660 The overwhelming majority of men who build success, it's not because they had some random fortunate event.

00:06:59.920 Now they may have had fortunate events, but a lot of that was set up.

00:07:04.480 It was teed up because they do the work required to put themselves in opportunistic situations.

00:07:10.640 Like for example, being able to have a conversation with David Goggins.

00:07:14.500 So I just want to make sure guys understand that it's not what we see is very rarely luck.

00:07:21.240 It's just the manifestation of years and years and years of effort.

00:07:26.420 Well, totally.

00:07:27.120 Well, and, and we're on it.

00:07:28.300 Obviously we're on a David Goggins kick last month in the iron council.

00:07:31.800 Do you not think the conversation about Goggins was heightened over maybe other episodes?

00:07:38.880 Like I know you personally, you personally put out more, probably more content about that episode

00:07:43.480 than you would, you marketed it more than other episodes.

00:07:47.260 I know I did.

00:07:48.540 I know other guys shared it.

00:07:49.820 And to be honest, like, don't get me wrong.

00:07:52.520 Goggins is, is, is, is a complete stud.

00:07:55.300 Uh, but I also wonder like how many of the listeners of this podcast even knew who David

00:08:00.300 Goggins was before you had him on.

00:08:03.200 Yeah.

00:08:03.720 I mean, I, I don't know.

00:08:04.840 I'm sure a lot of people did just because of the demographics of our podcast.

00:08:09.360 So I don't know, but yeah, I'm sure we introduced people to him.

00:08:12.780 I'm sure of it.

00:08:13.460 I know that for a fact.

00:08:14.820 I just don't know what, to what level, to what degree.

00:08:17.180 Yeah, for sure.

00:08:18.500 Cool.

00:08:18.820 Well, well, congratulations on the 10 mil.

00:08:23.240 That's pretty awesome.

00:08:24.200 Yeah.

00:08:24.480 Good news, man.

00:08:25.180 That's exciting stuff.

00:08:26.200 Congrats to you as well.

00:08:27.140 Cause you're a big part of that.

00:08:28.480 Oh yeah.

00:08:29.060 I'm sure it's.

00:08:30.120 You're at least a hundred thousand of that.

00:08:32.180 Yeah.

00:08:32.680 Cracking jokes midway.

00:08:34.220 Yeah.

00:08:34.500 I'm cracking jokes.

00:08:35.480 And then I shut your mic off so nobody can hear you.

00:08:37.860 You're like, that is not funny.

00:08:41.320 All right, man, let's get into this.

00:08:43.120 All right, cool.

00:08:44.340 Joshua Gherkin from the Facebook.

00:08:46.620 So we, let us step back a second.

00:08:50.720 We're still in those Facebook questions.

00:08:53.140 So this is from like three or four weeks ago.

00:08:55.600 Yeah.

00:08:55.980 So Joshua Gherkin, first question.

00:08:58.220 One skill every man thinks he knows, but does not.

00:09:01.820 The new generations of men, what skills are we losing that we should not?

00:09:06.160 What are some brands, mountain ops, hint, hint, that we should all know about?

00:09:11.560 Thanks.

00:09:12.900 So let's break this down.

00:09:14.520 So what skill sets do men need to know?

00:09:16.400 Is that what he's saying?

00:09:17.560 Yeah.

00:09:17.900 Maybe that are lost.

00:09:19.240 Yeah, exactly.

00:09:20.640 Well, I think a lot of skills in working with your hands are lost, whether that's woodworking

00:09:26.120 or basically just trying to fix your car or change the battery or change the tire or clean

00:09:33.980 out a carburetor.

00:09:34.800 Uh, I also think basic stuff around the house, plumbing, electrical, things like that, that

00:09:39.440 I think most men, you know, should, should know.

00:09:43.340 I think we're actually lacking on the soft side of things.

00:09:46.380 And we, you and I have talked about the distinction between soft and hard skills.

00:09:49.260 I think we're, we're really losing the ability to communicate effectively.

00:09:55.540 Uh, I really think we're losing the ability to debate intelligently with other individuals.

00:10:01.200 I think that we're losing the ability to think critically and understand context and use a

00:10:08.840 little discernment.

00:10:10.100 Like, like, for example, I'll make a post on Facebook about why you should get up early

00:10:16.240 and exercise.

00:10:16.860 And then somebody will come in and say, well, actually, if your back is broken, you shouldn't

00:10:23.060 exercise because you could really injure yourself.

00:10:25.340 It's like, no shit, dumbass.

00:10:27.720 Do you honestly think that I'm talking about somebody who has a broken spine should get up

00:10:34.300 and, and go to the gym and do deadlifts?

00:10:38.300 And yet the way some of these people respond, it's like, you're a moron.

00:10:44.940 That's all I can think.

00:10:45.740 You're a moron if that's what you believe.

00:10:48.320 And people are hearing this and they're like, yeah, nobody would say that.

00:10:51.260 Bull.

00:10:52.140 You should see the types of comments I get.

00:10:54.700 And I'm always amazed at how hard people strive and flex to like find something wrong with

00:11:02.240 a generally true rule.

00:11:03.760 And what that says to me is these people have lost the ability to think critically, think

00:11:10.700 intelligently, understand context, and use a little discernment for help.

00:11:15.740 They'll say about what somebody's actually talking about.

00:11:19.020 See, I think, I think it's them looking for excuses.

00:11:22.580 I think when maybe that individual, I mean, maybe you don't think so.

00:11:26.540 I think some, look, I'll be right.

00:11:28.020 I think they, their, their response to that comment immediately is that's not applicable

00:11:32.780 to me.

00:11:33.180 And let me tell you why.

00:11:34.140 No, I, I, I hear what you're saying and I agree.

00:11:37.080 I think there are people like that.

00:11:38.820 I think more than that, it's people just want to hear themselves talk and they just

00:11:44.880 want to be so right that instead of educating themselves and using some common sense, they'd

00:11:53.420 rather prove people wrong.

00:11:55.620 And look for the tiniest of little exceptions where a rule doesn't apply just so they can

00:12:01.240 hear themselves yap.

00:12:02.860 So they can be right.

00:12:04.360 That's what it is.

00:12:05.480 Yes.

00:12:06.180 I mean, look, no doubt that what you're saying, people that are looking for excuses, a hundred

00:12:10.940 percent.

00:12:11.360 And you can recognize those people.

00:12:13.540 Cause what they do is they say, well, in my situation, dot, dot, dot, it's my story.

00:12:20.560 Right.

00:12:20.720 And they tell us how, you know, their wife, she was this person and then she changed.

00:12:27.360 She, it was her.

00:12:28.480 She changed.

00:12:30.100 And, and so, and that's just one example, but they give us their little version of the

00:12:36.240 story when through thousands and thousands of hours and thousands of conversations with

00:12:41.140 men, we all deal with the same stuff.

00:12:45.120 We all deal with the same problems.

00:12:47.580 We're all going through the same experiences and nobody, not myself, not you, and not anybody

00:12:53.740 listening to this podcast is unique.

00:12:56.420 There's nothing you could tell me where I'd be like, Oh man, I never heard that before.

00:13:01.540 You're right.

00:13:02.380 It is the other person's fault that you're miserable in life.

00:13:06.680 It's not, that's not how this plays out.

00:13:08.820 But anyways, I think we're getting down a tangent that, that maybe isn't answering the

00:13:14.620 question, but guys like think critically.

00:13:18.120 All right.

00:13:19.260 Social media is beautiful.

00:13:20.560 It's a powerful thing.

00:13:21.540 I don't think we'd be having this conversation without the power of social media, but I think

00:13:26.220 it's done a lot of damage to our ability to communicate effectively, to listen, to understand,

00:13:33.040 to articulate a point effectively and powerfully, and then to have a conversation with somebody

00:13:38.540 you disagree with without turning to personal attacks and insults.

00:13:44.840 And the other, the other one that drives me nuts is like when, when people say, like when

00:13:51.320 I disagree with somebody, say, well, you don't need to be offended.

00:13:53.500 It's like, I'm not offended.

00:13:55.120 I like, I can disagree with somebody without being offended.

00:13:58.860 Oh, you're a snowflake.

00:13:59.900 Like that term to me is ridiculous.

00:14:01.800 It's like, dude, just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean they're a snowflake.

00:14:06.920 That, that these kinds of little things that we engage in because it's cool on social media,

00:14:13.140 you can roast people and try to get the last word.

00:14:16.260 And then everybody likes your comeback.

00:14:18.320 It's like, like elementary school antics.

00:14:21.580 It's ridiculous.

00:14:22.240 Well, it's like no one ever took debate in college or high school.

00:14:26.900 Like guys, like these are all like poor tools, right?

00:14:31.040 A straw man, slippery slope.

00:14:33.200 Yes.

00:14:33.400 You know, you can't be attacking the person.

00:14:35.160 Like we all know that that's like a lame tactic in the world of debate, but you're right, man.

00:14:41.100 It's, it's tough.

00:14:41.940 Like I was watching this.

00:14:43.740 I don't want to get too much on tangent.

00:14:45.220 Sorry, but I was watching this video about this guy that, that attacked these two girls

00:14:50.600 and it got recorded on, on, I don't know, some, on Twitter.

00:14:55.160 Like physically attacked?

00:14:56.960 Yeah.

00:14:57.520 Like he, he punched these girls.

00:14:59.780 Oh, I think I saw something about that.

00:15:01.700 Yeah.

00:15:02.000 Yeah.

00:15:02.380 And so, um, I'll be honest, what I thought I was going to see was different than when

00:15:07.180 I watched the video.

00:15:08.120 Uh, I don't even know if we want to get into the video, but, but regardless, I watched this

00:15:12.520 video and I mean, tons and tons of comments and some of the people were being very logical,

00:15:19.640 like, Hey, a couple of those girls was rushing him.

00:15:24.740 Um, like a couple of the, uh, I think twice both girls were rushing him, like swinging

00:15:32.600 a fist.

00:15:33.200 Now they're half the size of he, of the guy, but regardless, they're attacking him.

00:15:38.640 And, and one of the guys is like, Oh, you know, you know, I'm not saying he should have,

00:15:44.120 but you know, he was also being attacked, you know, and just kind of having the conversation,

00:15:48.780 like, you know what I mean?

00:15:49.840 And he's not, wasn't making the guy right per se, but someone was having a debate and

00:15:54.860 oh my gosh, like, yeah, immediately the conversations went from you're an idiot and man, I mean,

00:16:01.120 it would just went crazy.

00:16:02.280 And I'm like, guys, you can't have just like a logical conversation and, and understand

00:16:06.840 someone else's point of view and just go, Oh, you know, I see where you're coming from.

00:16:10.280 I disagree, but I see where you're coming from.

00:16:13.100 Yeah.

00:16:13.480 Like, but we seem to not be able to do that.

00:16:15.720 We just immediately like demonize stereotype and brand everybody.

00:16:20.700 Yeah, I, it is unfortunate because we can't have real conversations.

00:16:25.960 Um, speaking of David Goggins, for example, we were talking about race, you know, black

00:16:30.240 guy, surprise, surprise, David Goggins is black and I'm white for everyone that didn't

00:16:34.900 know.

00:16:35.220 Right.

00:16:35.520 And, and so a black guy and a white guy and me, we're having a conversation about race

00:16:40.380 and why we can't say things and which camp we're supposed to fall into and which camp

00:16:44.160 politically we're not supposed to fall into.

00:16:45.980 And, and we can't have real conversations about race or about immigration or about sexual

00:16:54.640 orientation or about name it, name, name something that's polarizing to people.

00:17:00.440 Uh, and, and we can't have those real conversations because everybody likes to be so damn upset and

00:17:06.400 so outraged and so offended and, and outraged about just some ridiculous, ridiculous things.

00:17:13.140 It's like, what if instead of just being so uptight and, and, and rushing to calling people

00:17:18.900 names and we, we just had conversations, right?

00:17:23.180 We just had conversations about the things that we agree with, the things that we don't

00:17:28.100 agree with.

00:17:28.660 We don't villainize necessarily people.

00:17:30.640 Now there's certain thoughts I think we ought to villainize, but there's other thoughts that

00:17:35.320 don't warrant the type of response that people love to make.

00:17:39.400 It's crazy, man.

00:17:40.260 It's absolutely crazy.

00:17:42.040 Well, and, and social media just compounds that effect and just makes it far more damaging,

00:17:47.900 right?

00:17:48.620 It's like before, back in the day, if you wanted to, to lash out on someone and, and give them

00:17:54.920 a bad name, you had, you had to physically walk around and talk to 20 different people,

00:17:59.060 you know, to get the gossip going.

00:18:00.400 Now it's just like flood, flood the interwebs, social media, and you know, you can ruin someone's

00:18:06.720 life.

00:18:07.140 It's crazy.

00:18:08.220 Yeah, no, I, I, I agree.

00:18:10.820 It's, it's crazy.

00:18:13.320 And what's, there's this other guy, um, gosh, I can't even think of his name right now.

00:18:16.800 He's a, a Senator, a Congressman.

00:18:18.540 He's, he's under fire because of some, um, pictures that he had taken 30 years ago.

00:18:24.400 And in a KKK outfit and blackface.

00:18:27.320 And look, I'm not going to say that that's, that's something we should tolerate, but, but

00:18:32.360 they just want to destroy this guy.

00:18:35.000 You know, that was a different context 30 years ago.

00:18:37.100 And I'm not saying it makes it right.

00:18:38.640 I'm just saying that people make mistakes, you know, people do dumb things.

00:18:42.780 Everybody here that's listening to this has done something dumb in the past that they'd

00:18:48.160 be embarrassed to, to talk about.

00:18:50.480 And yet we want to drop these things from 30 years ago.

00:18:53.840 You know, I think of, uh, I think it's Kevin Hart who, who made a, uh, uh, a gay joke

00:19:00.000 like eight or 10 years ago.

00:19:02.940 And it, and it, I can't even remember exactly what it was, but it seems like it said something

00:19:06.800 to the effect of like, he didn't want his kids to grow up gay or something.

00:19:10.500 And, and now it's like, we're, we're going to, we're going to blacklist this guy because

00:19:15.720 he made a, uh, a, a, a gay joke.

00:19:19.120 A comedian made a joke 10 years ago.

00:19:22.400 Yeah.

00:19:22.820 A comedian that made a joke that offended someone.

00:19:24.840 An irreverent joke.

00:19:26.020 Yeah.

00:19:26.280 Isn't that their job?

00:19:28.020 Actually on the podcast next week, you guys ought to listen in because I actually have a

00:19:31.600 comedian on the show next week.

00:19:32.980 And we talk about why, why we as a society has, have generally allowed comedians to talk

00:19:40.940 about taboo subjects and to mock and make fun of them and why it's actually important that

00:19:45.360 we need, uh, those, those outlets.

00:19:48.940 Like we collectively had said, have said, all right, the, the, the general citizen can't talk

00:19:54.460 about this stuff, but we're going to give you a pass because if we didn't give you the

00:19:58.340 outlet to talk about it, nobody could talk about it.

00:20:00.760 And we need to be able to break, you know, have these types of conversations.

00:20:04.300 We're so damn sensitive that the, the only person or the only context in which we can

00:20:08.520 talk about tough stuff is someone cracking a joke.

00:20:10.780 Exactly.

00:20:11.300 Which is, which I mean, is better than not.

00:20:13.780 Right.

00:20:14.120 And now, but now we're going after comedians.

00:20:17.100 It's like, it's a joke.

00:20:19.040 Well, there's a little bit of truth in every, yeah, that's what makes it funny.

00:20:23.180 If it wasn't, if there wasn't truth in the joke, nobody would get it and it wouldn't

00:20:27.140 be funny.

00:20:28.060 Yeah.

00:20:28.420 That's unrelatable.

00:20:29.420 Oh, the guy I was talking about, the, um, uh, Ralph Northman, that's the guy's name.

00:20:35.940 I was, I looked it up here.

00:20:37.180 Uh, the politician.

00:20:38.400 Yeah.

00:20:38.920 Who had, he's a, uh, I can't remember a congressman or a Senator from, uh, from Virginia.

00:20:43.920 Anyways, he had, he had, uh, there's a picture of him in his yearbook from 1981 and it's definitely

00:20:51.140 out of taste, but I mean, come on.

00:20:54.740 Like again, let's use a little discernment here.

00:20:57.280 Crazy, crazy, crazy.

00:21:00.060 All right.

00:21:00.600 20 minutes into this thing.

00:21:01.700 We got one.

00:21:02.220 Oh, we didn't even answer his full question.

00:21:04.260 Yeah.

00:21:04.500 So he, he was curious.

00:21:05.700 What, what are some brands that, uh, that you would recommend manly brands maybe?

00:21:10.020 I mean, there's, there's a ton, like for what?

00:21:14.660 I mean, there's a ton that you talked about Mount Knobs.

00:21:17.040 Um, origin is another one.

00:21:19.600 Um, Carhartt.

00:21:21.720 I mean, like for what there's, you know, there's so many, I don't know.

00:21:26.920 I don't know.

00:21:27.800 It depends on man, order of man.

00:21:30.300 That's a man.

00:21:30.840 I don't know.

00:21:32.960 I don't know what manly brands are and what they're not just whatever you like.

00:21:37.160 All right.

00:21:37.640 There you go, Josh.

00:21:38.420 This is your marching order.

00:21:39.220 Set up a new website called manlybrands.com.

00:21:41.920 There you go.

00:21:43.000 And, uh, you get all those companies to sponsor to have their content and their products showcased

00:21:47.840 on your website.

00:21:48.680 And then you get free product in the meantime, until you start making money.

00:21:52.020 There you go.

00:21:52.620 I will say it is funny and I'm even in this space, but it is funny to like, you have to

00:21:57.520 have man soap and man shampoo and man this and man, whatever.

00:22:03.460 It's like, you know, but, but I think it's the pendulum swinging, right?

00:22:08.440 Where, where you get this other message of toxic mass masculinity.

00:22:12.340 And then it's like, okay, well, you know what?

00:22:14.240 Now I'm going to like, now I have to be man, have man brands.

00:22:18.680 Yeah.

00:22:19.280 Yeah.

00:22:20.220 It's just funny to me.

00:22:21.900 And there, and yeah, like all kinds of words, like man pride and mansplain and man, it's

00:22:27.060 like, you know, we don't have to make up words here.

00:22:29.400 You know, like it's just, it is funny to see this stuff.

00:22:33.560 But that is a good point as a pendulum swinging of like, let's be completely extreme, right?

00:22:38.980 I'm on either side of the thing.

00:22:41.480 Yeah.

00:22:42.180 Yeah.

00:22:42.460 It's like, uh, isn't that your nickname?

00:22:44.180 Uh, manlicious.

00:22:45.400 Is that what I've caused?

00:22:46.720 Um, not that I'm aware of, but maybe, you know, something I don't, I don't know.

00:22:51.320 I like it though.

00:22:52.360 I do like it.

00:22:53.620 I'm delicious.

00:22:54.320 What else do you have?

00:22:55.600 Don't start bad, man.

00:22:57.900 Somebody's going to start calling me that.

00:22:59.940 Uh, why do you think that men especially are drawn to the idea of a Spartan lifestyle?

00:23:04.900 Is it simply a wish for a simpler way and urge to be put uncomfortable in uncomfortable situations

00:23:11.000 and conditions to test ourselves?

00:23:12.740 Or is it something else?

00:23:14.180 John Eldridge.

00:23:14.960 I talk about him a lot because he's really been influential in my life and this work here.

00:23:19.800 He talks about, and I can't, I'm paraphrasing here, but he talks about the question that all

00:23:23.880 men are trying to answer, which is if I remember correctly, and somebody, somebody's going to

00:23:27.600 correct me on this, uh, and they were just fine.

00:23:29.020 I want you to tell me what it is, uh, something along the lines of, am I enough?

00:23:33.660 I think that's the question.

00:23:34.720 Am I enough?

00:23:35.620 Like, do I have what it takes?

00:23:37.400 All men are trying to answer that question.

00:23:40.400 Yeah.

00:23:41.140 It's the same.

00:23:41.960 It's the reason why, for example, a five-year-old boy who's playing in a, in a sports league that

00:23:48.060 doesn't keep score will come up to the coach after the game and say, who won?

00:23:52.340 Um, because he's, he's biologically programmed to answer the question, to strive the answer,

00:23:59.040 the question of, am I enough?

00:24:00.700 And the problem with, well, one of the problems with society today is it's very difficult for

00:24:05.840 men to answer that question because we're not tested.

00:24:09.500 We have, we have so few physical, mental, and emotional tests to be able to answer that

00:24:18.160 age old question that every man has answered.

00:24:22.020 Am I enough?

00:24:22.800 Do I have what it takes?

00:24:24.820 And I think the reason so many men feel like they want the Spartan lifestyle and why we hear

00:24:30.720 the word warrior overused in marketing circles specifically for men is because we want to be

00:24:36.480 that.

00:24:37.440 We want to answer the question.

00:24:38.880 Do I have what it takes?

00:24:40.140 Am I enough?

00:24:41.140 Am I strong enough?

00:24:42.360 Am I man enough?

00:24:43.320 Can I overcome this challenge or this trial or this obstacle?

00:24:47.700 And we're craving it because all of that has been stripped away from modern society.

00:24:54.280 And a lot of this is actually very good.

00:24:55.900 We have a lot of creature comforts.

00:24:57.320 You know, we've got these climate controlled rooms that we're sitting in and we've got the

00:25:01.860 vehicles.

00:25:02.540 And if we want food, we just run down to the grocery store real quick and get food.

00:25:06.000 And if the fast food line takes six minutes instead of five minutes, we're upset.

00:25:09.300 And if Starbucks gets our mocha frappuccino flavor wrong, we wig out.

00:25:14.940 These are all little creature comforts that we have.

00:25:17.740 But the unintended consequences that there's no real challenge or strife in life.

00:25:22.600 And we're left without the answer to the question, am I enough?

00:25:27.400 Do I have what it takes?

00:25:28.520 And I think all of us deep down, we want the battle, as John Eldred says, so that we can

00:25:33.520 answer that question.

00:25:34.260 And I think we can surprise ourselves with this all the time.

00:25:42.140 A good example is in the Iron Council a couple of weeks back, we're obviously talking about

00:25:50.600 Goggins quite a bit.

00:25:52.120 And we're like, hey, we just threw out a challenge within that organization of like, hey, what's

00:25:59.360 run on Saturday?

00:26:00.160 And I think the IC as a whole ended up running over, you know, 600 something miles.

00:26:06.000 But one guy in particular, I think is a good example of this is Hunter Locke.

00:26:10.620 He had on his battle plan as a goal to run a half marathon.

00:26:17.180 Well, come Saturday with no preparation whatsoever, he thought, you know what, I'm going to run.

00:26:22.740 Well, he ended up running a half marathon.

00:26:26.040 Pretty crazy what we're capable of when we actually test, right?

00:26:29.120 Yeah, and he was willing to wait.

00:26:31.200 You know, he was, that was his goal for the quarter, right?

00:26:34.360 That wasn't supposed to happen until April.

00:26:36.840 But just by making himself uncomfortable and saying, hey, am I enough?

00:26:39.960 Can I do it?

00:26:40.860 Yeah.

00:26:41.480 Like, could I do it?

00:26:42.820 It's kind of exciting.

00:26:44.440 Like, I was even excited that day.

00:26:45.900 I thought, you know, I haven't ran over probably two miles for eight years.

00:26:50.780 And I thought, I wonder if I could run a marathon today.

00:26:54.300 Like, it did cross my mind.

00:26:55.700 I didn't run a marathon.

00:26:56.680 I ended up running at 14 miles.

00:26:58.480 But that's a hell of a lot of more running than I've ever ran for a really long time.

00:27:02.760 But you know what?

00:27:03.180 It felt good.

00:27:04.140 Well, let me ask you this too, kid.

00:27:05.820 Hey, I could do it, you know?

00:27:06.980 That's exactly right.

00:27:07.900 You answered the question.

00:27:09.060 Am I enough?

00:27:09.740 Yes, you are.

00:27:10.980 You ran it.

00:27:11.600 Yeah.

00:27:12.660 Let me ask you this.

00:27:14.300 If your life depended on it, as in literally depended on it, like somebody was going to

00:27:18.920 put a gun to your head and pull the trigger if you didn't run a marathon today, or somebody

00:27:24.420 was going to put a gun to your wife's head or your kid's head and pull the trigger if

00:27:27.860 you didn't run a marathon, could you do it?

00:27:30.380 Oh, hell yeah.

00:27:30.900 Of course you could.

00:27:32.460 I mean, you just, if someone just called me out bad enough, I would do it.

00:27:37.520 Of course.

00:27:37.900 Yeah.

00:27:38.060 It doesn't even take that extreme, right?

00:27:39.640 I may not walk tomorrow, but yeah, I could easily.

00:27:43.120 That's exactly right.

00:27:43.980 So what we're telling ourselves is that physically we're not capable of it, but in all reality,

00:27:50.000 it's not that.

00:27:51.180 It's that mentally we might be hindering ourselves more than physically we are.

00:27:54.980 And we dream of this Spartan lifestyle.

00:27:57.220 Yeah.

00:27:57.740 You know, I'd be awesome, but we're unwilling to put ourselves into those situations of uncomfortableness.

00:28:04.760 Yes.

00:28:05.520 Yep.

00:28:06.200 Cool.

00:28:06.800 What else?

00:28:07.180 Evan Vanderturn, how important is it to exercise not only our physical self, but our mental and

00:28:15.120 our spiritual self?

00:28:16.400 Can you put an amount of importance on something like that, or is it just a feeling thing?

00:28:22.640 I mean, it's critical.

00:28:24.620 I would actually probably argue that it's even more important than the physical component

00:28:28.740 to go back to what we were just talking about.

00:28:30.660 If your mind's not right, or at least to some degree, like you're not working in the right

00:28:34.880 direction, you don't need to have everything figured out in your mind to go to the gym,

00:28:37.620 for example.

00:28:38.540 But if your mind's not right to some degree, you'll never even step foot into the gym.

00:28:42.300 You'll never exert yourself physically.

00:28:43.640 So I would say that the mental preparation, the mental challenge and struggle and adversity

00:28:49.220 and overcoming those things is more important than the physical, than the financial, than

00:28:54.600 the relational.

00:28:55.420 It is the foundational principle before growth in any facet of life.

00:29:01.000 So yeah, man, I don't think you can place an importance on that.

00:29:05.260 I mean, I've been on the opposite end of this.

00:29:06.720 I've been destroyed mentally and just completely just, I don't even know the word, but just

00:29:13.200 destroyed, deflated, just weak and pathetic mentally.

00:29:19.200 And I'm telling you, man, every part of my life suffered from physical to the relationships

00:29:23.620 I had to my business and financials, every element of suffered because I didn't have myself

00:29:29.460 right mentally.

00:29:31.000 Yeah.

00:29:31.340 And they support each other.

00:29:32.880 I mean, that's why, that's why we talk about each of these quadrants, right?

00:29:37.820 In the iron council on a regular basis is the physical can help you on the mental and

00:29:43.160 the spiritual and the spiritual can help on the, like that balance.

00:29:46.560 I think they support each other.

00:29:47.980 Yeah.

00:29:48.220 I think that balance is super important.

00:29:49.720 I agree.

00:29:50.320 I agree.

00:29:51.080 You can't make a decision in a vacuum.

00:29:52.760 So if you improve in one area of life, you're naturally going to improve in other areas.

00:29:56.240 I will say this on the spiritual side.

00:29:58.160 I don't talk about the spiritual or religious component a whole lot.

00:30:02.340 I think everybody who's listening to this, who has a religious or Christian background

00:30:06.360 or faith understands that most of what we talk about is rooted in Christianity, right?

00:30:11.340 Like I'm not trying to hide that fact, but I've had a couple of messages over the past

00:30:15.020 couple of days that of guys asking me, why don't I talk about that?

00:30:18.820 And frankly, I don't talk about it because I want to, I want to appeal to more men.

00:30:23.180 I mean, there's a lot of men who listen to this, who, um, who, who don't believe in God,

00:30:28.040 for example, uh, who, who don't have some sort of religious or spiritual faith.

00:30:33.180 And I don't want it to be a turnoff if that's all we're talking about.

00:30:37.300 Plus there's, there's so many platforms out there that talk about God and Christianity and

00:30:42.260 Jesus and all that stuff's wonderful, but I'm not going to do it here because I want to

00:30:46.880 expand our ability to reach everybody, not just religious, quote unquote, religious men.

00:30:53.240 Um, but I, but I thought a lot about this because people also question and say things like, well,

00:30:59.000 if you don't have God, then you're missing a huge component.

00:31:01.460 And while I think there is a component missing, I still believe that you can be a great man

00:31:10.680 without that. And, and, and, and I know there's going to be a lot of people with that, that are,

00:31:17.320 that are Christian, for example, that are going to, that are gasping that I said that right now,

00:31:21.640 because there's so many people out there that believe that you can only be moral if you believe

00:31:25.660 in God. Well, that's not true. I mean, I know, I know so many individuals who don't,

00:31:32.680 who are atheists, they don't believe in God. And yet I would consider them extremely moral,

00:31:38.680 quote unquote, good people. I don't think that's the only source of morality. I think there's other

00:31:45.660 codes that people can operate by. So I do believe the spiritual component is big. Uh, I believe it's

00:31:52.240 been instrumental, invaluable in my life. I believe that all men would do well to implement some element

00:31:59.680 of spirituality and religion into their lives, but I don't think that they can't be good men without it.

00:32:08.680 Yeah. Agree. Disagree. What are your thoughts? No, I totally agree. I mean, I mean, God is a,

00:32:16.420 is a distinction that, and a set of understanding and parameters in which you have chosen to believe

00:32:23.240 and you call it that, right? It's a great, it's a great point. And, and so for someone else,

00:32:29.560 maybe it's not that word, it's, uh, it's energy or it's something else. Right. And, and we,

00:32:37.420 and I'm not down for a debate on, you know, whether it's the same thing and whatever. But the point is,

00:32:45.640 is like, there's truth in many things, right? I use this analogy. Um, you know, I did some work in the

00:32:52.260 Saudi Arabia area at one point in my career and, um, and I use it as analogy because we run into this

00:33:00.120 in America all the time where, well, how dare you, uh, mention religion in a public setting? Because

00:33:06.400 that's a, that offends me. And you know what I mean? We get people that are overly sensitive,

00:33:10.240 right? About religion being discussed. And when I was in Saudi Arabia, I use that as an example. It's

00:33:16.260 like, there's no way I would come here and then go running around with my, with my mouth bitching

00:33:22.620 and moaning about, well, how dare they practice the religion in front of me? It's so, so offensible.

00:33:27.060 Like that, that wasn't the case. If anything, I was like, this is cool. Like, what can I learn?

00:33:33.620 You know what I mean? What principles are they discussing? What, what things do they do or reverence

00:33:39.280 do they have that I could look to incorporate into my life? Like, and, and, and you and non-religious guys

00:33:45.160 and religious guys, we need to look for truth in things and look for the opportunity to grow and,

00:33:50.180 and grab that, which is good. Don't be overly offended by it. And, and also don't place judgment

00:33:55.680 and realize that everyone else is on a different path in the, in the space of spirituality. And

00:34:01.020 maybe that path doesn't have God on it right now, but instead it has something else and that's okay.

00:34:06.600 Right. At least they're on the path of, of spiritual something, right? You know,

00:34:10.600 they see the need of some moral compass. That's, that's important.

00:34:15.040 I, I agree. I have a hard time when I hear guys, all they're doing is preaching from the pulpit. I'm

00:34:21.060 like, you know, there's more to life than what you're sharing right now. Uh, one thing that's

00:34:25.780 really funny is, um, I, I made a post on Instagram. Uh, it was a scripture reference and I don't usually

00:34:32.560 quote scripture references for the reasons that I'm talking about earlier, but I posted this one and

00:34:37.400 it's in first Corinthians 13, 11, it says, when I was a child, I spake as a child. Uh, I understood

00:34:42.400 as a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things. So I,

00:34:49.040 so I made this post and everybody's like, you know, amen. Yeah. I appreciate it. Blah, blah, blah,

00:34:52.800 whatever. And then one guy was like, well, what about guys who aren't, who aren't Christian or who

00:34:58.040 don't believe in the Bible? Like what about them? And he's like, well, good principle. That's,

00:35:03.480 and that's, that's the point to your point. There's truth everywhere. You don't need to

00:35:07.880 believe in the Bible to listen to that. When I was a child, I spake as a child. I understood as a

00:35:12.200 child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things. You don't need

00:35:16.660 to believe in the Bible to, to take that and try to understand what it means and ask yourself if

00:35:22.920 there's truth in what is being shared here. Totally. But we get, we get so defensive of our own

00:35:29.340 viewpoints that we literally, I mean, quite literally blind ourselves to other opportunities,

00:35:36.620 to other thoughts, to other perspectives that may actually help us move forward.

00:35:43.680 Yeah. I mean, a good example of this is the old Testament, you know, the, that's in Quran makes

00:35:51.280 references of Moses. The Torah makes references. You know how many religions share a lot of those

00:35:56.960 common writings of the old Testament? Yeah, for sure. But, but yet we have it. Oh,

00:36:00.760 that's the Bible. It's Christian. No, actually, you know what? Those books are used by a whole lot

00:36:05.420 of religions. Yeah. Yeah. We shouldn't be so, and why? Because there's some good stuff in there.

00:36:11.240 Because there's truth. Yeah. There's some truth. There's some good stories. And guess what? Some of

00:36:16.200 them are probably just stories. Yep. Yep. Stories to illustrate a point. There's movies. Even just at

00:36:22.780 more fundamental level there are not, maybe not fundamental, but just a more applicable level is

00:36:26.660 go watch a, go watch a science, a sci-fi fiction, right? Just like a, yeah, just a science fiction

00:36:32.440 movie, right? It's fake. It's not real. And yet you're inspired. There's moments of inspiration

00:36:38.020 where a hero steps up or he exhibits courage or bravery and he saves the crew and he fights against

00:36:44.720 something that he's afraid of. And like, it's, it's a fake movie. So you're telling me you can't,

00:36:50.980 you can't be inspired by it or you can't, there isn't some element of truth or something that,

00:36:56.020 some characteristic that you can aspire to be like, because it's a fictional movie.

00:37:00.320 Yeah. I mean, Travis Mills, the last podcast episode you did, you know, he made reference

00:37:05.120 of saving private Ryan and band of brothers.

00:37:08.420 Goggins talked about Rocky.

00:37:09.900 It's for him. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it wasn't legit.

00:37:13.140 Right. Right.

00:37:14.220 Just good stories.

00:37:15.180 Exactly. Cool, man.

00:37:16.960 All right. Douglas Ed, how do you focus more? Well, why do you focus more on provide and preside

00:37:23.940 than you do on protecting? A little bit of an opinion there.

00:37:28.520 Um, I guess, I guess if that's true, I guess it's just because that's what I know more of.

00:37:36.400 And I feel like there's all kinds of other platforms that teach tactical strategy, situational

00:37:43.840 awareness, self-defense, martial arts. It's just not, I believe it's a critical component

00:37:50.060 of what it means to be a man, but I also believe that I focus more on like the mindset. And I'm,

00:37:57.700 I'm just trying to think if that's actually true. If I, if I'm being objective, I would probably say

00:38:03.920 I, I can see where he's coming from. Yeah. Um,

00:38:07.900 I, I'm assuming it's easier. Uh, what are we going to do on protecting? Like,

00:38:13.360 well, but I have other, over some jujitsu moves on here.

00:38:16.320 Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the challenge, but I have, you know, I've had martial artists

00:38:19.500 on the podcast. I've had, uh, survival experts. I've had tactical experts. I've had, you know,

00:38:24.920 like Clint Emerson talks about fortifying your home and, and being aware when you're traveling

00:38:29.640 abroad. So we certainly cover it. I wonder if it's just, there's more content on the other two,

00:38:35.940 maybe, maybe. And that might just be because that's just what I choose to focus on. Not because

00:38:40.480 it's more or less important. It's just what I happen to focus on. Yeah. Hmm. I'll have to think

00:38:46.620 about that one. Um, all right, Jason, Pat, Zach, how, this is a long one. I'll do my best. How do you

00:38:53.980 know when, or if you found your calling? I am now in my second trade. My career has tied both trades

00:39:00.700 together and I've done quite well with it, but I'm now working to leave within the next five years

00:39:06.280 and branch out to a whole new industry and effectively start from scratch. I'm confident

00:39:11.360 in my abilities and work ethic. So I'm confident I can do it. The thing is, I always hear you have to

00:39:17.740 find your calling. Does your calling have to be an activity or can it just be a way of life?

00:39:23.020 Yeah. I think, you know, when you found your calling, when you stop asking questions like

00:39:28.220 this, right, you wouldn't be asking that question if you felt like you were satisfied or you were

00:39:35.240 exactly where you needed to be. Uh, but if you have additional questions about, am I doing the

00:39:40.620 right thing? And is this the right path for me? Then I think you owe it to yourself to continue to

00:39:45.900 explore because you haven't found what you need. And I also don't think your calling or your,

00:39:50.940 or your purpose or whatever term you want to use as a final destination either.

00:39:55.600 Cause people ask, you think a lot of guys have one? I mean, it's like one of your callings or

00:40:00.940 something that fits well. No, I don't, I don't think that I don't think that at all. Cause people

00:40:05.520 will ask me, for example, they'll say, well, where do you see order of man in five years?

00:40:08.960 And if I'm being honest, order of man may not even be around in five years.

00:40:13.820 Now I don't, I'm not saying that I'm phasing it out or that I envision a day where that will happen,

00:40:18.280 but I'm just being realistic because five years ago there was no vision of order of man. I thought

00:40:24.000 what I was doing was what I needed to be doing. So if I, if I'm going to just stagnate and say,

00:40:30.780 well, I found it, this is it. I found it. I'm here. I've arrived. Congratulations chumps. Like

00:40:36.400 I'm here and you're not like, I just feel like I'd be closing myself off. I mean, there's there,

00:40:43.400 my priorities will change. My kids will grow. The relationship with my wife will develop,

00:40:47.420 uh, the market changes and there's new technologies and new advancements and new conversations and new

00:40:52.840 findings. And if I wasn't at least open to the idea that some of these things will influence in,

00:40:59.140 in a minor way and some in a huge way, the way that I look in my own life and the way that I

00:41:03.500 approach what it is I do for work and how I'm living my life, then I I'm, well, I'm just delusional.

00:41:10.100 I'm being ignorant. The fact of the matter is, is that there are going to be new things that come

00:41:15.120 into my life who that are going to intrigue me and make me curious. And I want to explore those

00:41:20.280 things. So I think you always need to be working towards finding something that's meaningful and

00:41:24.180 significant. I will say you could potentially, if you do that, run the risk. And this is if you're

00:41:28.920 taking it to the extreme is run the risk of being flippant or chasing a shiny object.

00:41:35.300 You do have to be very careful of that. But I think you do owe it to yourself to continue to

00:41:40.340 explore. And if you're asking yourself questions like, what if I did this? And what if I tried that?

00:41:44.940 For example, Maine, you know, a lot of people ask me why Maine, why this? Why look, man,

00:41:49.140 I don't have any logical reason other than I feel called and compelled to give it a shot.

00:41:52.840 And, and, and, you know, I might get there and me and my family might find it miserable.

00:41:59.380 And so we just move home and, or we might find it the most exhilarating, adventurous

00:42:06.320 experience that we've ever had. And if I would have said, nope, can't do that. Or I shouldn't do

00:42:12.040 that. Then I closed myself off to that opportunity. So you've got to find the balance between exploring

00:42:19.680 new ideas and new perspectives. And I feel like I'm directed by the spirit. You know,

00:42:28.080 I've got to listen to that. I have to listen to that. But I also am very cautious of just chasing

00:42:33.880 whatever's great. Like what's the next great thing? Because I realized that there's danger in that too.

00:42:39.680 Do you think, do you think it's folly for Jason to, and I'm not saying Jason is assuming this,

00:42:46.960 but it's a little bit in the writing here is that a calling is tied to his occupation?

00:42:53.120 Oh, yeah, I do. I think it can be. I certainly, obviously, because that's, I mean, take,

00:42:59.020 take order, man. This is my scenarios, right? Right. I mean, this is my job, right? But I think

00:43:05.420 calling is more the way you live your life. Simon Sinek talks about this in his book,

00:43:10.600 start with why. Because if you start with why, so, so the thing, the questions you got to ask

00:43:17.100 yourself, and he's talking about leadership and starting a business and pursuing something that

00:43:22.220 you're interested in that could potentially be a calling. There's the why, there's the what,

00:43:26.660 and then there's the how. And so, and I, I think it actually goes, why, how, what? So what most

00:43:33.400 people will do is they'll focus on the what? I sell widgets. Okay. How are you going to sell them?

00:43:38.660 I sell widgets by promoting them online, for example, on my website. And why do you do that?

00:43:44.900 Because people need widgets. Okay. There's, there's, I don't think there's anything necessarily

00:43:50.440 wrong with that, but I think a deeper way to look at this is to say, why first start with why? So if you

00:43:58.280 take order of man, for example, I could have very easily said, I'm going to offer, uh, coaching

00:44:03.640 services to men. And I'm going to do that through a podcast and a blog. Why should I do it? Because

00:44:08.780 I see men struggling. Instead, what I did is I started with why? And I looked at my own life and I

00:44:16.500 said, okay, I grew up without a father figure in my life. Uh, I know, I know deeply and intimately

00:44:24.820 what it feels like to have a stepfather leave and think that it's somehow has something to do with

00:44:32.360 you. And I know what it feels like to be rejected by a man who's supposed to be permanent, like a

00:44:39.060 permanent fixture in your life and guide and coach and direct and influence. I know what that's like,

00:44:44.860 man. Cause I've been there. I've been in that experience. I also know what it's like to be in a

00:44:50.220 marriage that there's just so much contention and animosity and bitterness that it just boils over

00:44:58.060 one, one day. And you say to your wife that you don't even want to be married anymore. And then she

00:45:03.420 looks at you straight in the eye and says, I agree. I don't want to be married either. And then you

00:45:07.660 separate. I know intimately what that feels like. I know what it feels like to have a new child come

00:45:14.600 come into my, come into your life and you feel completely inadequate and so scared about what

00:45:21.760 you might do to this kid because what was done to you that you don't embrace that child, but you

00:45:28.300 reject that child and you subconsciously sabotage your own family. Like I know what all of that feels

00:45:37.280 like, because that's me. I was there. That's my life. And I don't want a single man to experience

00:45:45.580 that. I don't want any son or daughter, frankly, to grow up wondering where the hell their dad is.

00:45:53.760 I don't want any man to find himself in a miserable relationship where he has to have the conversation

00:46:00.840 of divorce. I don't want any man to be ostracized from his child because mom and him split up and

00:46:11.680 now mom's fighting and he doesn't get to see his kid anymore. And he's got to go into the court and

00:46:16.220 have some dumb ass who doesn't know anything about his life dictate whether or not he's a good enough

00:46:21.880 human being to see his own son or daughter. I don't want any man to experience that because I know what

00:46:30.180 it feels like. And I have that. I have that in my life. That's my why. Now, what do we do about it?

00:46:40.940 Well, we can work on that stuff and we constantly evolve and grow and develop and come out with new

00:46:45.600 programs and new strategies and new conversations and new tactics that we can use inside of Order of

00:46:50.840 Man. But that's all secondary to my why. Yeah. So it doesn't have to be tied to your occupation.

00:46:58.200 It should go significantly deeper than that. And what's interesting about this is that my business

00:47:05.860 makes me a better father. My business makes me a more loving, kind, compassionate, strong, assertive

00:47:17.700 leader in the walls of my home and my community and my business.

00:47:21.960 My family life and the way that I lead or try to lead and the way that I coach in my community

00:47:32.240 and the way that I try to be a good neighbor and a good friend helps me be a better business

00:47:37.780 owner. I've found, unfortunately, I've, and I don't, I'm not even saying found, I have

00:47:44.360 developed congruency in every facet of my life. I don't care if I'm showing up at the gym or I'm

00:47:54.360 showing up at home or this afternoon, my son has some sort of a recital presentation at school that

00:48:01.240 I get to go to this afternoon at about 2.30. It doesn't matter where I show up. All of it is

00:48:08.420 helping me, helping me be better in every other facet of my life. I never want to be in the

00:48:13.140 situation where I'm wearing quote unquote hats. Like I got to put on my business hat. And then I

00:48:17.480 come home and I take that hat off and I'm like, got to put on my dad hat. And then I take that hat

00:48:21.340 off. Now I got to put on my husband hat. Guys, there are no hats. There's just life. And the more

00:48:27.500 you can find congruency about the way that you're showing up in every facet of life, the more satisfied,

00:48:32.000 the more fulfilled, the more effective a man that you're going to be. So your occupation is simply

00:48:38.680 a component of your life. It is not your life. Like if you ask a hundred men to tell you about

00:48:49.080 themselves, 90 plus of them are probably going to say, well, I'm a, I'm a financial advisor. I'm a

00:48:55.220 school teacher. I'm a firefighter. That does. That's not who you are. That might be what you do. And

00:49:00.860 that's a big component. And I, and I commend you for being excited about that, but that's certainly

00:49:05.620 not who you are. Find out who you are and let everything else support that vision or that idea

00:49:14.900 or that person that you want to become. Yeah. And I love how you would have never saw this quote

00:49:25.200 unquote, why or like order of man, like this was created. So I can't help but think that so many

00:49:35.120 guys, they think that they're quote unquote, finding their why is, is in some box that they

00:49:41.580 have to find. It's like, well, guys, sometimes you have to build the box. Yeah. It's not some

00:49:46.800 made up thing. Or tear down the box. Yeah. It's something it's of your creation, right? I mean,

00:49:52.480 we know this, like everyone's so unique and we have unique talents and what we bring to the table is so

00:49:58.160 different from what other people bring. And because of that, it's probably not some,

00:50:04.140 you know, particular defined thing yet. It probably needs to be defined and created by you.

00:50:12.100 Yeah. And, and the other thing too, I would say is that when you find your why you can,

00:50:21.460 you can begin to uncover how, what you're currently doing, let's just take your occupation,

00:50:25.920 for example, supports that why. And I'll, I'll just use my own personal story because that's the

00:50:30.840 one I know is I could, I could fulfill that why as a financial advisor. I could make the direct

00:50:40.060 correlation between being a good, committed, strong father, husband, business owner, community

00:50:46.580 leader, and making sure that your finances are in order. I can support the why with just about

00:50:52.860 anything. I could be a garbage collector or a janitor and no offense to those individuals. I'm

00:50:58.820 just saying those are just scenarios or examples I'm using. And I can still find significance in those,

00:51:04.600 in that work. If I know what my why is, if I can tie it back to that. So that's the foundational

00:51:11.460 element. What you do is, is independent as long, but, but you got to try to find a way to tie it back

00:51:19.880 to the why. Yeah. Hmm. All right. Just, just it Flores. Uh, we know this guy. Yeah. What's up,

00:51:29.040 man? Flores. He just got one of our books. We just did a book giveaway and I think he got one. He's in,

00:51:33.660 he's in Mexico. So he's like, dude, I didn't get a book. And it's been like a month or a month and

00:51:38.040 a half. He just messaged me and said that he got a, he got a letter or an alert or something that

00:51:44.360 said he finally got his book. So just it, I'm glad you got your book, man. That's cool. Well,

00:51:49.180 and he's always, it seems like he's always tagging us on Instagram. So kind of representing and sharing.

00:51:54.680 Yep. He's very engaged. Um, so his question, guys, I want to have a bachelor's degree in philosophy.

00:52:01.000 It has no market value where I live and to his point, does it anywhere, but it is something I

00:52:07.760 really want to do. Have you done, or are you willing to do something like that? I know Ryan

00:52:12.440 says it has, it has to add value, but I think it's important to fulfill our souls with the things we

00:52:17.760 always wanted to do. Even if there is no value on it, please. I'd love to hear both perspectives.

00:52:24.040 Have an amazing day. I, I actually think there's tremendous value in it.

00:52:27.940 Like, please don't misunderstand me. And I talk about this quite a bit with, with college degrees

00:52:32.860 because I know guys who go because they feel like they have to like, I'm just supposed to have a

00:52:38.620 degree. That's just what you do. And with no idea of what, yes. And to that individual, I say, that's

00:52:45.340 dumb. If you, if that's the reason you're going to college, it's just a simple cost benefit analysis

00:52:52.400 and it doesn't play out. Yeah. Now with what just is talking about, there's some purpose there.

00:52:59.040 Whatever that is, I don't know, but there's some purpose. There's some significance. There's some

00:53:03.780 meaning in there. So to say that there isn't value in there. I don't, I don't agree with that.

00:53:08.800 Actually, I, I think there's a lot of value in there. And so have I ever done anything that doesn't

00:53:14.000 quote unquote makes sense? Yeah. Uh, I'm moving to Maine and I've only been there twice.

00:53:21.220 My wife's only been there once. And the first time she went to Maine, we put an offer in on a house.

00:53:26.480 Like there's no logical reason to do that. It's, it's hardly enough time to make a prudent

00:53:33.340 decision to move my family across the country into some unknown place where we know like five people.

00:53:39.220 Yeah. And yet we're doing it because there's some sort of value or metric or I don't even know the

00:53:47.540 right term. There's something there that's calling to us. So if this is calling to you, yeah, man,

00:53:53.740 get after it. Just get it done quick, be efficient, get it done quick, try to attach purpose and meaning

00:53:59.180 and significance to it and create a game plan. So I'm doing this and here's what I plan on doing

00:54:03.180 afterwards. But I do think there's value in it. If you're deliberate, intentional about it,

00:54:07.680 if you're just doing it because mommy and daddy told me I should, and society said that you just,

00:54:12.980 yes, we're supposed to do to go to college. Then that's stupid. That's not a significant reason

00:54:18.360 to do that. But I think there's more to it than that here. Yeah, for sure. I mean, he, he obviously

00:54:24.660 has an interest in the subject and, and you would, you would gain personally just by maintaining,

00:54:31.480 getting that knowledge and increasing your understanding on the topic. I mean,

00:54:35.320 I could totally see the desire to get a degree in philosophy or just study philosophy for that

00:54:40.240 matter or psychology. I love those topics. Yeah. Super cool. All right. Shane Wallen,

00:54:46.180 what is your take on some of the bigger names leaving Patreon due to the possibility of biased

00:54:51.760 censorship and vague terms about hate speech on any platform? Uh, so I have a lot of different

00:54:58.360 thoughts about this actually. Number one, go ahead. So give us an update really quick. So,

00:55:02.660 so like big names, like celebrities, no longer using Patreon because of some censorship.

00:55:08.580 The two biggest, the two biggest are, well, I should say three, I think there's three,

00:55:13.000 the three biggest ones are Sam Harris, uh, Jordan Peterson and, uh, Ruben, uh, Dave Ruben, maybe,

00:55:21.420 I don't know. One of the, one of the Rubens there's, there's a couple of different ones. I think,

00:55:24.360 I think those are the three guys leading the charge here. Um, I'm leaving Patreon and, and part of the

00:55:29.180 reason, I don't know the full story, so I'm not going to pretend I do, but part of the reason is,

00:55:32.960 is because, um, there's a lot of allegations that Patreon, not even allegations, they flat out have

00:55:38.400 been, uh, closing people's accounts and censoring, uh, mostly it seems to be right leaning political

00:55:49.100 views. And Twitter is actually under a lot of heat for this. And Facebook even, uh, is, is under a lot.

00:55:56.320 And YouTube for censoring right wing thoughts, ideas, and comments and perspectives. So I think

00:56:04.560 that's a problem because there's a double standard. So I think, I think a company should be able to

00:56:11.240 refuse the right to service to anybody. I got, I think, I think that's a business is right. Like

00:56:17.280 I work with these people and if you don't fall into this category, then I don't have to work with you.

00:56:22.860 I think it's a very dangerous precedent. And here's what all these people complain about.

00:56:27.500 They're like, Oh, they're censoring me. Well, they're a business. They can't say they should

00:56:32.100 be allowed to censor you because it's their business. So I have no problem with the business

00:56:38.240 saying, no, we, we're not going to tolerate this conversation or this type of, of, of communication

00:56:45.220 or hate speech. I have no problem with that. Yeah. I mean, you control this platform. We don't let

00:56:51.260 anyone jump on the order of man podcasts and spew their message if we don't agree with it or, or,

00:56:56.500 you know, we, we work with men. So it's men in the iron council. So I think a business, I think

00:57:03.080 it's a very dangerous precedent to tell a business who they can and can't serve. That's number one.

00:57:10.260 Yeah. Number two, like who, who, who do you want to decide that you want some committee or

00:57:17.440 organization or government to decide what businesses can serve who that's dangerous. If you don't see

00:57:22.120 the danger in that, man, I don't know. I don't know what to say. That's dangerous. That's number

00:57:27.380 one. Number two is if a bit, this is a little bit, maybe counter to what I'm, I just said,

00:57:33.820 if a business is going to, to make a stand against certain conversations or certain, uh, political

00:57:45.600 viewpoint or whatever, then I don't think it should be a double standard. I don't think

00:57:51.180 they should, should hold conservatives to one standard and then, and then liberals to

00:57:56.900 a different standard. I think it should be the same standard applied, applied broadly. I'll

00:58:02.360 even say, go so far as saying it's the same thing in the military. I have no problem with

00:58:07.120 women in the military so long as they do the same standard that men are required to do.

00:58:11.900 And right now they don't specifically in physical fitness. There's two different set of standards.

00:58:16.500 Men have their tables and women have another, a completely different table. That to me is a

00:58:22.980 problem. It's like, why do we have two different? Look, if women want to be in the military, great.

00:58:28.420 Let's make sure that they can, they can uphold the standard. But the fact of the matter is, is that

00:58:34.780 at this point there's a double standard. That's a problem. Like if you don't see that this is a

00:58:40.420 problem, you're, you're, you're actually part of the problem. So no double standards. And then the

00:58:48.540 third component of this is, I think it's great that these guys have left Patreon. If they don't agree

00:58:53.420 with the business's practice, then I think leading by example and walking away from, I mean, I don't

00:58:59.660 know how Sam Harris was probably collecting seven figures in Patreon revenue. No way. Yes. At least

00:59:08.820 Jordan Peterson, he was making like 60 to 70. Last time I checked, maybe even more, maybe he's up to

00:59:15.220 80 or a hundred thousand in Patreon revenue monthly. So these guys, they have a lot at stake.

00:59:25.100 It's not like, Oh, we don't like this company. So no, they're putting their money where their mouth

00:59:30.100 is. And I commend that. I respect that. So I love if, if, if a business isn't conducting business in a

00:59:38.460 way that you believe is, is right, then I believe you have a moral obligation to stop working with

00:59:46.280 that organization. And Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, uh, Ruben, and some of these others who have left,

00:59:54.440 I tip my hat to you. I commend you because you've, you've sacrificed for what you believe. That to me

01:00:02.700 is very, very cool, very inspiring, very powerful. And, uh, it's a lot of the way that I think

01:00:08.520 significant changes made. So I've got a lot of thoughts on the subject, but those are my, my three

01:00:13.400 biggest thoughts and ideas. All right. Next question. Josh sovereign pay for kids college or not

01:00:20.840 offer to pay for in in-state tuition or room and or board trying to figure out what the best way is to

01:00:27.260 help, but allow my child to take ownership in the college cost for a point on a student and will

01:00:32.760 be competing in athletics at the next level too. Um, well, if he's a four year, she is a 4.0 student

01:00:41.060 and competing in athletics. Uh, they're probably going to get a lot of college paid for, which is

01:00:45.500 awesome because that means they're pulling their weight, you know? So I think if you're having the

01:00:50.000 discussion and I'm not suggesting this guy is, but if you're having the discussion about whether or

01:00:53.480 not to pay for college, when a kid's 18, you probably missed the boat. You should be

01:00:57.200 having these conversations from the time they're 10, 11, 12 years old and why it's so important

01:01:01.380 to get good grades and why it's so important to excel in athletics so that you can get,

01:01:05.460 can get these scholarships. So I would lean more towards that. Um, I've thought about even like

01:01:11.400 children living at home and I, I don't know, I'm kind of conflicted on this. I would say that if my

01:01:17.080 kid is, is going to school and working, not just going to school, but and working that I would allow

01:01:25.840 my children to stay at home during that period under my set of rules and boundaries. Uh, but if a kid's

01:01:33.340 going to school and he's not working, uh, or he's, he's working and not going to school, I'm like,

01:01:39.000 you're out on your own, man. You got this. But I, I just think there's so many opportunities to get

01:01:44.720 grants and scholarships and opportunities for kids to work that I don't think parents should

01:01:52.300 really subsidize a whole lot of that. I just don't. I paid for my college and, um, did you work

01:02:01.380 while you were going to college? I did. Yeah, I did. Did it suck? Well, we ended up having, um,

01:02:09.000 we ended up having our first kid, my second semester in college. And so, um, I didn't want to

01:02:15.660 go part-time. I needed to work full-time to support, um, a family and someone staying at home

01:02:22.820 and a kid. So I actually worked full-time and went to school full-time and it was tough. I mean,

01:02:28.580 I'm talking what, what's that? I said, and it sucked, right? Yeah. Yeah. I worked from six to two

01:02:36.760 and then I'd go to university from like three to 10. Yeah. And it should suck. Like it shouldn't be

01:02:43.200 an enjoyable time. You should get it done. I would say too, and maybe just to, uh, well,

01:02:50.380 I don't know what your thoughts are with this. You're probably a more credible thought. I would

01:02:53.960 say, don't have kids while you're going to school. Just get your schooling done, get your work done.

01:02:59.720 If you're married, that's one thing, but I would say, don't have kids while you're going to school.

01:03:04.860 What would you say now that you have had kids, would you say it's okay? Or would you lean more

01:03:10.080 towards no, don't do that? No, I'd wait. I'd wait for sure. Because I mean, here's the reality

01:03:14.880 back then. I mean, you're, you're, you're, he doesn't care. Even if you had the awesome job,

01:03:20.600 you're, you're still making crap. So like, of course, no kid is going in daycare because daycare

01:03:26.420 is going to be like, you're going to have to work two jobs to pay for daycare. So that's not going to

01:03:30.420 work out well. So then, then you're going to have someone, you're going to have mom or dad at home

01:03:35.440 while the other one's working full-time and probably going to school part-time. It's going

01:03:40.280 to prolong the process. Like there's not too many people I know that could pull off, to be frank,

01:03:46.780 what I did going to school full-time and working full-time. It was super, super tough. And a lot

01:03:52.100 of people get like some insane burnt out, uh, when they attempt to do that. So yeah, I, I kind of

01:03:57.540 agree. I think get school over and, and kind of wait until afterwards. But yeah, I mean, we have to

01:04:02.780 make decisions and I think that's what people don't want to do. I don't think they want to make

01:04:06.160 decisions. They're like, well, we want to start a family. Hey, look, I commend you for that. I don't

01:04:11.000 think there's anything wrong with it. It comes out of price. Yeah. Right. But there's a cost, like you

01:04:13.680 said, there's a cost. And sometimes you just have to decide, like, we'd like to have a kid, a kid.

01:04:18.560 We'd like to start a family, but we got to get through schooling. So we're going to, we're going to

01:04:22.780 wait three years. Is that a sacrifice? Yeah, you bet. It is a sacrifice. That's part of life. It's part of

01:04:28.140 being an adult is that you make difficult decisions that aren't always fun to make.

01:04:34.400 Yeah. And we sacrifice now for something better or growth in the longterm. Right. I mean,

01:04:40.740 that happens all the time. Yeah. Yep. Yep. All right. Adam Elrod thoughts on philosophy,

01:04:47.100 happy wife, happy life. Stupid, stupid. I've heard, I've heard a few of you boil down your advocacy of

01:04:54.780 men taking ownership and particularly men working on themselves to fix relationship problems to

01:04:59.160 support their happy wife and happy life. I have my own theory, of course, but nobody asked me.

01:05:05.100 Actually, Adam is very, very insightful. Like, have you listened, have you, uh, uh, looked at any of

01:05:12.640 his messages or his comments on, on Facebook? Oh yeah. Yeah.

01:05:16.780 The dude is not unbelievable. Like, like no political correctness. I'm not saying like he's

01:05:22.720 rude or anything. I'm just saying like, he addresses situations from a very practical,

01:05:28.140 reasonable, objective perspective. And I love that because very few people do it.

01:05:33.020 So more people probably Adam ought to ask you about your opinion, because I think it's,

01:05:38.640 I think it's awesome.

01:05:39.740 Well, and it's obvious that Adam, a lot of his comments is to generate thought,

01:05:44.500 right. He's trying to get people to kind of, he's a thoughtful person. I mean, he just,

01:05:48.800 you can tell he thinks about this stuff. Yeah. Um, no, I think a happy wife, happy life thing

01:05:54.440 is a stupid way to live your life because that you, do you think that's your objective is to make

01:05:59.940 your wife happy? If you think your objective is to make your wife happy, you're going to drive her

01:06:04.320 nuts and you're going to go insane because that's not your objective. You know what the, I've had a

01:06:11.180 thought on this. Maybe you guys can agree with me or disagree with me on this. I think that the

01:06:15.700 point of a spouse is not to make you happy or satisfied or anything. I actually think the point

01:06:22.060 of having a spouse is to challenge you. Yeah. I, you would have used a different word like pain in

01:06:29.880 the ass maybe, but yeah, challenge, challenge you. That's good. No, think about this. The point of a

01:06:36.120 wife is to challenge you to become a better man. Totally. And I'm not saying because she's a pain

01:06:43.120 in the ass or because, or because she's batshit crazy or anything like that. I'm not, that's not

01:06:48.680 what I'm saying. I'm saying that what I want in my wife is for me or excuse me, for her to hold me to

01:06:56.880 a higher standard, to call me on my bullshit, to provide me the motivation that I need to want to

01:07:09.560 improve myself and our financial situation and my physical fitness and just my capacity to be a better

01:07:17.160 human being. I want my wife to challenge me. And, and, and that I see a real problem in men when they

01:07:27.480 think their objective is to make their wife happy because then they start doing dumb things.

01:07:34.160 They're at their beck and call. They let their, their wives carry their balls around in their purse.

01:07:39.160 And if their wife asked them to go do something, they drop everything. They, they, they sacrifice their

01:07:44.520 own sanity and their own wellbeing at the, or for their, for their spouses. This is a very, very

01:07:51.700 serious problem that men face. Your job is to challenge your wife, not to be a pain in the ass,

01:07:58.220 not, not to make things hard on her, but to challenge her to grow into the woman that she's

01:08:04.860 capable of becoming. And your wife's job is to challenge you not to, again, not to be a pain in the

01:08:10.800 ass, not to make life hard on you, but to challenge you so that you can rise to the occasion and become

01:08:17.620 the man that you're capable of becoming. So when guys walk around and say, as long as my wife's happy,

01:08:22.480 then I'm happy. That's stupid. That's passive. That's weak. And it leads to an inferior relationship.

01:08:28.580 Yeah. How almost every guy I know that has, that has been divorced this probably nine times out of

01:08:43.200 10 is the problem or was the problem. This idea, this happy wife. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This I'm going

01:08:50.560 to put her back in call. I'm going to put everything into her. She's my world, right? That's a better way

01:08:57.120 of saying it. Right. Oh, she's my world. She's my everything. Golfed. Yeah. And it's like,

01:09:02.040 what are you kidding? Like how sad of a life do you have? Yeah. And what happens when she has a bad

01:09:06.280 day, dude? Right. Oh, what, what, what she, so she's pissed off today. You're not going to be man

01:09:13.080 enough to choose to be happy for your own wellbeing, let alone the wellbeing of your household and for your

01:09:19.620 kids. Yeah. She can't have a bad day. Right. You're going to put that on her. And then when the

01:09:24.240 marriage sucks, when you're doing the second fall and the marriage goes South, what's then, oh, it's

01:09:29.360 her fault, huh? It is her fault. If you're living that way, oh, it's all her fault. I, you know, I'm,

01:09:36.320 I'm doing whatever she asked me to do. I'm taking note accountability. It's a, it's a, it's an excuse

01:09:41.180 and it's an escape goat for men not to level up and be themselves and be independently happy. It's their

01:09:49.740 way of, of pushing on the responsibility of their life onto their spouse. It's complete

01:09:55.040 bullshit. Sorry. You're, you're right. You're right. It's not an opinion. It's fact, but I don't

01:10:04.360 know what else to say, man. I think that's exactly right. I think it's a real detriment to men when

01:10:09.900 they do this, you know, and you talk about what if she has a bad day? What if she dies?

01:10:13.800 Yeah. Like heaven forbid, you know, I mean, God, I can't, I don't want to imagine that,

01:10:19.420 but if you're incapable of surviving without your wife, if she's gone, whether it's a girl's trip

01:10:27.040 for the weekend or heaven forbid, she gets in a car wreck and dies, how are you, how are you going to

01:10:32.580 continue? How are you going to drive on? This is a part of sovereignty, guys. I wrote a book on it.

01:10:38.420 Part of sovereignty is being capable of standing on your own two feet. The beautiful part of that

01:10:44.400 is that when you can learn to stand on your own two feet, you're better in a relationship. You're

01:10:49.480 a better husband. Yeah. And she'll respect you more. Yeah, absolutely. Take a couple more.

01:10:58.380 Yeah. Sounds good. James Lay, have you ever been in a fist fight?

01:11:01.720 Um, I think two, two fist fights, one when I was like in fifth grade and no, no three fist fights,

01:11:13.660 one when I was in fifth grade. And I, I don't even know if I'd call it a fist fight. I think

01:11:17.880 it was more of a shoving match with, with a buddy. I think we threw a few elbows or fist or something.

01:11:22.540 And we got sent to the principal's office and he made us shake hands or whatever. And then he just

01:11:27.420 sent us right back out. Like he didn't expel us or anything like that. No suspension. He just said,

01:11:32.140 all right, get back out there. And we were inseparable from that point forward.

01:11:36.360 Yeah. You mentioned this on last Friday. Yeah. I think he had a bloody lip and I had a bloody nose

01:11:41.160 or something like that. And then, um, I got in a fist fight when I was, I must've been in like

01:11:49.180 seventh or eighth grade and I got my ass kicked. I, I got, um, yeah, I just, I don't really even,

01:11:57.420 I know what happened quite honestly. And the guy, I just remember like my nose was like crooked a

01:12:03.360 little bit. So I don't know if I, if I, I maybe broke it. I don't know. I never got it fixed.

01:12:07.500 It's still a little crooked. Uh, and I had a broken blood vessel in my eye and I remember this was on

01:12:13.120 the weekend and I remember going to school on Monday and I still have my broken blood vessel in

01:12:16.800 my eye. And I just remember thinking, man, this is actually cool. Cause all the girls would come up

01:12:20.660 and give me hugs. Uh, and then, and then I actually like not much after that, I got in a fist fight

01:12:29.980 with that kid's friend and I kicked his ass. Yeah. So you're like, I can't kick that guy's ass.

01:12:38.240 Yeah. So I'll kick his friend's ass. Um, and, and that was, that was the same year. So that was like

01:12:45.040 eighth grade, seventh, eighth grade. And that's the extent of it. I've never gotten any like

01:12:50.160 altercation outside of that. That's funny. Have you? Oh yeah. I've gotten my ass kicked all

01:12:56.480 tons of times. And I'm not talking about like jujitsu. I'm talking about like a fight,

01:13:00.020 like a real fight. No. Yeah. That's what I mean. I've gotten my ass kicked the tons of times as a kid.

01:13:05.120 I was picked on a lot. Um, you know, I was a really good target for a lot of kids growing up,

01:13:11.720 uh, elementary, middle school, um, high school. Not really, not so much in high school. I, I finally

01:13:20.460 like learned some social skills where I could kind of defuse, you know what I mean? Some contention.

01:13:27.680 Um, I was at a good friend that, um, well, actually one of my best friends, um, he's the one that got me

01:13:33.980 into jujitsu and he got in fights in high school all the time. Um, but it was, it, but it was to be

01:13:39.840 frank, it was actually spurred on racism. Um, actually. And so it's black or what? No, he's

01:13:46.920 Hispanic. Okay. Yeah. Moved to a small town, you know, small town, Utah. Yeah. I mean, there's a

01:13:54.300 couple of kids that had opinions about Mexicans and they let him know about their opinions. So,

01:13:59.340 but it's, uh, I don't, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't even mention this, but it's,

01:14:03.500 it's interesting how often I think like even in, in Richard's perspective and I love Richard

01:14:09.740 and he's, he's my brother, like we're, we are brothers. And, um, even in his scenario,

01:14:17.040 I actually think in those circumstances in high school that it actually wasn't racism.

01:14:23.060 I know they used racist slurs, but actually wasn't racism. I don't think it was.

01:14:28.560 What do you think it was?

01:14:29.620 I think they used it as a way to, to piss him off. You know what I mean? Like in the

01:14:34.900 grand scheme of things.

01:14:35.860 But why did they want to piss him off?

01:14:37.980 Uh, just because he, cause he reacted to it.

01:14:41.040 So they're just instigating.

01:14:42.980 Yeah. They, I think they got the instigation out of him. And so they, they used it, you know,

01:14:47.700 you see it all the time. Like people will attack whatever is the sensitive subject.

01:14:52.120 Oh yeah. People are great at that.

01:14:53.280 On, on the individual that they're attacking. Right.

01:14:55.800 So if you happen to be a certain way, they'll be like, ah, okay, well you're then this. Right.

01:14:59.980 So I think it was a little bit of that. And maybe there was a little bit of racism as well. But,

01:15:04.700 um, but yeah, yeah, I, I've gotten my ass kicked a ton of times at school. It was,

01:15:09.980 and it's funny. I laughed during your Friday field notes when you're like, and I, we became friends.

01:15:14.260 I'm like, that's hilarious. Cause I, I remember in, I was like sixth grade and, uh, me and this

01:15:21.960 eighth grader got in a fight. And by the way, this whole thing, like kick a guy in those balls

01:15:26.420 and it like drops them is a complete lie by the way. Cause I tried that and it did not help at all.

01:15:33.300 He just like threw me around the room and just destroyed me. Um, but anyhow, uh, I just got worked

01:15:40.000 over and, um, that night my mom's like, Hey, someone's at the door and I go to the door and

01:15:47.300 it's that kid. And he was like, Hey, uh, do you want to hang out? And I was, I could not understand

01:15:53.520 it. Yeah. But it's funny because I thought that was really unique. I thought, well, what the hell

01:15:58.440 you just beat the shit out of me? Like earlier today, you know, you like, and not just beat the

01:16:03.640 shit out of me, but like, I'm embarrassed. You know what I mean? I had a bloody lip, you know,

01:16:08.020 like all this kind of social, you know, my ego was hurt and all this stuff and you want

01:16:13.200 to go hang out. Like I could not understand it, but, um, you know, I learned that like

01:16:19.100 that happens all the time and it's really interesting and it's, and it's, I don't know.

01:16:24.200 I don't know the psychology around it. I'd like to understand why that is, but I know, I think

01:16:29.420 I have a theory on why that is. Yeah. My theory is because we're, we as men are constantly

01:16:36.960 testing each other. And if you're going to crumble, if you're, well, for lack of a better

01:16:42.700 term, if you're going to be a little bitch, then I know I can't trust you in difficult

01:16:46.460 situations. But if you fight back, I at least respect you a little.

01:16:50.640 But then, yeah, because then I know, oh, this is somebody who's going to actually stand up

01:16:54.200 for himself. Like this is somebody who, if push comes to shove, not only will stand up

01:16:58.280 for himself, but will also stand up for a friend. And so I think the same thing happens

01:17:02.980 in the military. Like there's, there's people in the military that, well, even just basic

01:17:08.140 training that's, or, or bootcamp or whatever. That's the whole point is to see who's going

01:17:11.620 to bitch out because you don't want, like, I don't want my battle brother to be a bitch

01:17:16.700 because if he is, then he'll get me killed. Yeah.

01:17:20.580 What I want is I want somebody who's tough, who's gritty, who doesn't need to be the strongest,

01:17:26.220 but at least I know he's going to stand up for himself and me, that he's courageous, that

01:17:30.600 he's got some balls, that he's got some character. And I need to weed all of that out. And sometimes

01:17:37.300 the quickest way to weed that out is to pick on somebody. I look, I'm even guilty of it

01:17:43.620 with my kids and my, like my boys and my wife's like, why do you always make them cry?

01:17:50.440 And I'm like, I thought that kick to the, he wasn't that hard.

01:17:54.580 Yeah. But no, I asked myself, I'm like, well, why do I? Cause sometimes like we'll wrestle

01:17:58.960 and they'll cry and then they'll run off. And I'm like, why do I do that? I'm like, oh,

01:18:02.540 cause I'm, I'm toughening. And then I'm up. That's the, that's the point. Like I'm not,

01:18:06.380 look, don't call CPS or anything. I'm not being abusive to my kids, but any dad who's worth his

01:18:12.640 weight and is listening to this right now knows exactly what I'm talking about.

01:18:16.220 Every dad raised your hand. If you've accidentally hurt one of your kids, like it happens all the time.

01:18:21.640 That's the point. The point is for a dad to put your child under hardship to toughen them up.

01:18:29.980 So I think we do the same thing in our social circles and everybody's like, oh, bullying,

01:18:34.760 bullying, bullying. Look, there's bullying where somebody's like, you should go home and kill

01:18:38.740 yourself. Like that is bullying. There's no doubt. But, but somebody calling somebody in class four

01:18:44.320 eyes, I don't think that's bullying. Yeah. I think that's, Hey, let's see how you handle yourself.

01:18:49.980 Yeah. And if, guess what? The kid with, with glasses on, if he stands up and says,

01:18:55.400 screw you and throws a punch, he doesn't get picked on anymore. Cause you're like, oh,

01:18:58.860 okay, I got it. I understand the line. But if he cowers and it pisses in pants or whatever he does,

01:19:04.920 then he's going to keep getting picked on. Yeah. Because he doesn't, a strong individual

01:19:09.900 doesn't want weak people in a circle. And people will say that like, oh, you're being so hard,

01:19:15.160 Ryan. You're being so harsh. Maybe, maybe I'm not being politically correct right now,

01:19:19.320 but maybe I'm also just being real. Totally. We want strong people in our circle. And so we got

01:19:27.200 to find a way to identify who's weak and who's strong. Well, I saw evidence of this, uh, Super

01:19:33.520 Bowl Sunday. We're, we're over at a friend's house watching the game. The game's over and all the

01:19:38.500 players are kind of like hugging each other out right after the game. And this kid goes,

01:19:44.100 that doesn't even make sense, right? They were just banging into each other and giving each other

01:19:50.480 concussions and trying to hurt each other. And now they're just hugging. That doesn't even make sense.

01:19:56.440 And I had to stop. And I'm like, no, that's how you get respect from them. Yes. They're they like,

01:20:03.860 they chose to be violent with one another. Right. And, and they respect each other for it.

01:20:10.880 But that is what it means to be a man. I was like, totally on like a soapbox with this little

01:20:15.500 kid. Cause I'm like, dude, don't look at it that way. That is the wrong way to look at it.

01:20:20.900 I mean, and there's like, if you think about sports for a second, they are so two teams or

01:20:27.700 two individuals who are competing are so, they get so much value in testing themselves against

01:20:35.040 somebody else that they're actually willing to say, let's go kick each other's asses,

01:20:39.860 but let's do it in a cooperative way. So much so that we'll have a third party come in

01:20:44.740 and, and make sure that we're following the rules that we agree on that we don't get out of hand.

01:20:49.800 Right. And, and if we, either one of us crosses the line, then that we give this third party,

01:20:55.200 the authority to give us a penalty. And so it's, it's actually not competition. It's actually

01:21:01.520 cooperation. Totally. Like sports is cooperation. I will cooperate with you in these rules and you

01:21:09.400 and I have to agree upon the rules. So we're going to agree on these rules and you and me will

01:21:13.860 cooperate within these rules and we'll see how tough we really are. And at the end, we'll stand

01:21:20.420 up, we'll dust each other, we'll dust ourselves off and we'll shake hands or we'll embrace and we'll

01:21:25.000 say, thank you. I respect you. And then we'll do it again next weekend to see if we can get better

01:21:32.720 at it. Yeah. It's awesome. I know it's jujitsu, right? Like you battle with someone so hard and

01:21:40.420 you're, you're trying to hurt them. They're trying to hurt you. And then afterwards you have so much

01:21:46.740 respect for them. Yes. So much respect. And, and it comes down to that, you know, that cliche term,

01:21:52.460 you know, that we use sometimes is, you know, iron sharpens iron. Like that's how it works.

01:21:57.140 Yeah. That's how it works. Specifically. I think with, with men, I think it's very prevalent in,

01:22:02.440 in men more so than I think, I think than women. Yeah. Well, if you guys are interested in ironing,

01:22:09.360 iron sharpening iron, and you want to join the battle, uh, that we have on this podcast and within

01:22:15.640 the iron council, um, you can join us and submit your questions and participate in the AMA by one

01:22:23.300 of three ways. Uh, Ryan mentioned these earlier. It's, it's through patrion.com slash order of man.

01:22:29.160 The second would be the iron council or exclusive, uh, brotherhood. You can learn more about the iron

01:22:35.960 council at order man.com slash iron council. And then of course the Facebook group, which is

01:22:39.960 facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. And if you are listening to this podcast and you guys

01:22:45.260 are already part of the Facebook group, share, invite more people to that Facebook group.

01:22:51.380 It's an easy way for them to be exposed to order of man, where then they can start seeing posts from

01:22:58.000 Ryan. They can start learning that there's actual podcast and there's other conversations happening.

01:23:03.580 Um, it's a, it's a clever way. And if not, man, tell them to subscribe to the podcast. And if you're

01:23:08.480 not subscribed, you should, and, uh, leave us a rating and review as well. Um, from an event side

01:23:15.140 of things, um, I assume legacy is full, but there might be a couple spots. No, I think, I think we

01:23:20.800 actually have six spots left right now as of, as of yesterday afternoon. So we've got spots. So if you

01:23:26.020 want to join us, join us, it's going to be a, an incredible adventure. Yeah. This is a father and son

01:23:31.420 event in Southern Utah, April 11th through the 14th. All you need to do is get to Las Vegas,

01:23:38.320 and, uh, Ryan and the crew will take care of the rest, uh, during that event. And you can learn

01:23:44.360 more about legacy at order of man.com slash legacy. Um, do we want to bring up the men fluential

01:23:50.520 item that we, we mentioned that last week briefly at least? Um, yeah. Men fluential is February 22nd

01:23:59.660 and 23rd. That's where I'm going to be in Atlanta. If you can join us, join us there.

01:24:04.640 Uh, what else? Oh, we've got the podcast pro. So if you go to order of man.com slash podcast

01:24:11.380 pro, that's going to start on March 1st. We've got, man, we've got a ton going on right now.

01:24:15.680 We got stuff. We got stuff going on. We got stuff. It's good. It's all good. Um,

01:24:19.700 to connect and share, uh, with Ryan, um, there's a handful of ways, right? One, obviously this podcast,

01:24:26.520 you've done a good job if you're listening to that so far, congratulations. Uh, second, uh,

01:24:31.600 YouTube channel, uh, the order of man, YouTube channel, and then, um, connect and share by

01:24:37.640 wearing swag, uh, get some order of man swag and represent, uh, what this message is about.

01:24:44.880 And, uh, what's the term that we use earlier? Have some mint man pride and wear some, uh, order of man,

01:24:51.440 um, swag. Yes, but we're not going to use that term man pride anymore. We're not going to say that

01:24:57.740 anymore. We're going to make a man pride shirt. No, we're not. Uh, the stores that order of man.com

01:25:04.740 or it's store dot order of man.com. Uh, there's shirts, hats, there's the flag order, man flag,

01:25:11.240 and some decals and, and much more items. And then connect with Mr. Mickler at Ryan Mickler for

01:25:19.100 Twitter, as well as at Ryan Mickler for Insta. Perfect. I think we inundated with these guys with

01:25:26.400 enough information. So bam, there it is. Kip, I appreciate you, man. Guys, I appreciate you.

01:25:32.220 Glad you're on this journey. Uh, again, Kip said, share it, share the show. Uh, we grew what? 26%

01:25:37.860 last month over any of the highest previous months, uh, which is awesome. So let's keep going. Uh,

01:25:44.080 appreciate you guys. Let's, uh, let's continue in this battle to reclaim and restore masculinity.

01:25:48.460 So until what do we got Friday, Friday for our Friday field notes, take action on the man you

01:25:53.480 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:25:58.340 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at

01:26:03.100 order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 06, 2019

The Lost Art of Communication, Finding a Calling, The Meaning of Sports ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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