Order of Man - December 08, 2020


The Man in the Arena | EDDIE GALLAGHER


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 15 minutes

Words per minute

192.66237

Word count

14,583

Sentence count

945

Harmful content

Misogyny

13

sentences flagged

Toxicity

18

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Eddie Gallagher is a former U.S. Navy SEAL and author of The Man in the Arena, a book that documents his insane experience of being falsely accused of war crimes and how his family and the country fought for his freedom.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Most of the men listening to this podcast are familiar with Theodore Roosevelt's speech,
00:00:04.120 man in the arena. And most of us know what it's like to some degree to be mocked and
00:00:09.220 criticized and ridiculed for the way that we live our lives and the actions that we take.
00:00:15.220 But very few of us have ever had to fight like my guest today, Eddie Gallagher has,
00:00:19.600 in order to secure our freedoms and our way of life. Accused of war crimes,
00:00:25.440 Eddie Gallagher spent nine months in prison facing a potential life sentence.
00:00:30.000 And against insane odds in the deck, being completely stacked against him,
00:00:34.460 Eddie, along with his wife and brother and the help of thousands of other patriots,
00:00:39.720 successfully secured his freedom and his status as a U.S. Navy SEAL.
00:00:44.440 And today we talk about part of his story.
00:00:47.060 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:52.520 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
00:00:56.840 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
00:01:02.260 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
00:01:06.500 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:11.680 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler.
00:01:14.440 And I am the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.
00:01:18.100 I've got a very, very powerful story and guest. I hesitate to say story because, well, my guest today is Eddie Gallagher.
00:01:25.860 This isn't just a story. It's his life. And this was a very, very powerful conversation.
00:01:30.340 I think you guys are going to get a lot of insight from it. And it's my goal.
00:01:33.820 And I know Eddie's as well, but hopefully it'll help you serve and live your lives the way that you have a desire to.
00:01:40.080 So we're going to get into that in just a quick minute. Before we do, I want to mention my friends and show sponsors origin, Maine.
00:01:47.000 I'm looking down at my origin boots right now. Guys, if you haven't picked up a cop, not a copy, excuse me.
00:01:51.900 If you haven't picked up a pair, a pair, that's what we call boots, a pair, not a copy.
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00:02:41.120 All right, guys, as I alluded to earlier, my guest today, uh, some of the, that, that a lot of you are probably familiar with.
00:02:47.680 His name is Eddie Gallagher and he is a retired Navy seal.
00:02:50.560 Uh, he came under national attention and of course, a lot of scrutiny with it, uh, when he was charged with war crimes while conducting operations in Iraq.
00:02:59.260 Uh, he's also the author of his upcoming book, the man in the arena from fighting ISIS to fighting for my freedom.
00:03:05.460 Uh, in the book, he documents his insane experience of being falsely accused of war crimes and how his family and the country fought for his freedom.
00:03:14.240 And the ultimate truth about how, uh, president Trump even helped his cause.
00:03:19.100 There's a lot of misconception and misinformation around that as well.
00:03:22.640 Uh, this guy is extremely humble and down to earth.
00:03:25.060 And as I talk about, uh, with him during the conversation, he seems to be an incredible father and husband to his children and wife.
00:03:32.740 I know you guys are going to really enjoy this one.
00:03:35.660 Also make sure you pick up a pre-order copy of his book at eddiegallagherbook.com.
00:03:40.040 Uh, they've got a special package, a pre-order package when you do, it's at, uh, eddiegallagherbook.com.
00:03:45.740 You guys are going to enjoy this one.
00:03:49.320 Eddie, what's up, man.
00:03:50.260 Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
00:03:51.920 Oh, thanks for having me, brother.
00:03:54.180 Yeah, you bet.
00:03:55.000 I mean, I, I heard about your story.
00:03:57.600 I hate, I told you just a second ago.
00:03:59.520 I hate saying like your story.
00:04:01.620 It's not your story.
00:04:03.260 It's your life, man.
00:04:04.900 And, uh, I was listening to the podcast this weekend, uh, with you and a friend of mine, Andy Stumpf.
00:04:10.320 Yep.
00:04:11.280 It's a great, great guy.
00:04:12.860 It's a great guy.
00:04:13.820 I've known Andy for a couple of years now and he's, he's always been supportive of what
00:04:17.880 we're doing here and he's just a solid guy, but man, I heard you talk about it.
00:04:21.800 And of course I read a portion of the book at this point and I mean, I'm absolutely blown
00:04:26.020 away.
00:04:26.220 It's not your story.
00:04:26.900 It's your life.
00:04:27.440 And, and, and that's the distinction I think we need to make here.
00:04:31.160 Yeah.
00:04:31.520 Um, you know, it's, it's funny.
00:04:33.540 Like the, I did, uh, Andy Stumpf's podcast, uh, pretty much, I mean, right after I retired.
00:04:40.680 So I was like not even a month out.
00:04:43.460 Um, and obviously it was after everything that had happened.
00:04:46.980 And so, um, you know, this year has, it's been good to sort of just like decompress from
00:04:53.680 all that.
00:04:54.120 I took, I took this year to like heal, you know, heal myself and, um, just wrap my mind
00:04:59.460 around everything that happened the past two years.
00:05:01.560 Uh, but I mean, it's been good, um, you know, especially writing, you know, writing the book
00:05:07.060 and getting that on paper.
00:05:08.980 Um, but yeah, it's, uh, it's still, it's still a surreal feeling, uh, just because, you know,
00:05:16.340 I'm like my wife can attest.
00:05:18.500 I'm the last person that would ever want to be known or have my face put anywhere.
00:05:24.080 Um, so it's something that I had to sort of accept this year, just like, Hey, this is,
00:05:29.300 you know, what God put in front of me.
00:05:30.880 Um, and you know, I just come to, come to like accept it and use it for good.
00:05:36.660 So, yeah, that's a good response.
00:05:39.300 Cause I know when I was listening to that podcast and I've heard this before, and both you and
00:05:44.100 Andy being seals, and of course other seals that I've had on the podcast, talk about the
00:05:47.860 idea of the, you know, the quiet professional.
00:05:49.940 So was that a hard thing for you to wrestle with knowing that you wanted to put this story
00:05:54.740 out there and yet you have quite literally been trained over a period of multiple decades
00:06:00.160 to just shut up and do your job?
00:06:02.720 Yeah, it was, that was probably one of the biggest things for me to wrestle with, especially
00:06:06.480 as I was writing the book.
00:06:08.320 Um, you know, I, I never thought I'd be doing something like that.
00:06:12.760 And, uh, you know, while, while I was in, you know, I can honestly say I was, I was pretty
00:06:17.780 verbal about, you know, against writing books or, you know, putting, putting any of our stuff
00:06:23.680 out there.
00:06:24.220 Um, just because that's like you just said, how I'd been raised, uh, to be a quiet professional.
00:06:30.600 I would never tell anybody, you know, if I didn't know somebody, I wouldn't tell them
00:06:34.660 I was a seal.
00:06:35.520 It was just, I just tried to keep it to myself.
00:06:37.380 Um, but yeah, it, you know, it's, it was uncomfortable, but, um, I think you can agree, like if you're
00:06:45.900 doing something uncomfortable and it, it's probably a good thing.
00:06:49.660 Like it's for growth.
00:06:50.940 Um, and that's, uh, what I really got out of it is just putting everything that happened
00:06:56.820 to me and my family on paper, um, getting it out.
00:07:01.060 Um, it really forced me to, uh, dive deep into everything.
00:07:05.760 Um, and it was, it was therapeutic at times, but at times it was rough.
00:07:12.040 Um, you know, like, I'm not gonna lie, like probably halfway through, I was like, dude,
00:07:16.180 I don't want to do this anymore.
00:07:17.560 Um, but thank God I got a strong wife who, you know, just talked to her about it. 0.78
00:07:22.800 She put some common sense into me and be like, you know, this is, you're doing this for a
00:07:26.500 reason.
00:07:26.980 This isn't a, and the book itself is not a typical.
00:07:30.240 It's, you know, I, I really don't dwell on my career, you know, stories from deployments.
00:07:37.280 Um, it's more focused on the trial.
00:07:40.440 Uh, what, you know, the deployment that, um, came before the trial, you know, I get to give
00:07:46.600 it the, uh, the story some context, but the big thing that I liked about it is it, I have
00:07:53.500 my wife has chapters in it, uh, Andrea, like what she went through, uh, not just from the
00:07:59.160 trial, but also as a military spouse, what it's like being a spouse, what, and my kids
00:08:02.940 also have chapters in it, just, uh, how they feel.
00:08:05.960 So they're, they're, they're the real heroes of the story to me.
00:08:09.440 Um, that's, you know, what they went through during, during the whole thing and how, how
00:08:15.820 they persevered, how my wife, you know, stood up against pretty much the two biggest forces, 0.96
00:08:21.420 uh, which is the U S government and the media.
00:08:24.160 Um, and she won.
00:08:25.980 Um, so to me, I'm glad that I wrote the book to get their story out.
00:08:31.720 Um, and that the world can see just what a strong wife I have. 0.98
00:08:35.140 Um, it really is.
00:08:36.760 It's a true blessing.
00:08:38.600 Yeah.
00:08:39.000 That's one of the things that really stood out.
00:08:40.620 And I want to get into some of your story, but one of the things that really stood out
00:08:44.480 to me is how, and I don't know your wife, but how incredible this woman must be to be
00:08:50.820 able to, you know, my wife, I was on deployment in 2005 and 2006, and I don't want to diminish
00:08:55.600 her, take away anything from what she did and what she had to deal with while I was gone. 1.00
00:09:00.040 I'm not trying to do that when I say this, but she didn't have to deal with a fraction
00:09:05.960 of a percent of what your wife must've went through as she wrestled with the idea of you 0.70
00:09:12.880 potentially being a war criminal and her not knowing to know that's not my husband.
00:09:18.660 And, uh, and, and I'm going to stand up for him to trying to rally people around to try
00:09:25.000 to, to, to, to help you.
00:09:27.260 I just can't imagine the amount of fortitude in this woman.
00:09:30.320 And that's, that's a pretty inspiring thing outside of your experience and what you dealt
00:09:35.400 with personally.
00:09:36.480 Oh yeah, for sure.
00:09:37.980 Um, I mean, what she did is to me, it's beyond amazing.
00:09:42.900 I mean, she, she pretty much dropped everything as soon as they had locked me up, um, for no
00:09:48.140 reason.
00:09:49.320 Um, she, we, this is that the investigation had been going on for almost a year before
00:09:56.280 I was even thrown in prison.
00:09:58.880 Um, but we were keeping it to ourselves because we just, it was so ridiculous.
00:10:03.340 We thought it would blow over.
00:10:05.100 Um, and once they threw me away, she pretty much, you know, raised the red star clusters,
00:10:12.280 shot them up.
00:10:12.780 Um, it's like, this isn't happening.
00:10:13.960 And she dropped everything, um, she was doing.
00:10:17.000 I mean, plus, I mean, she's taking care of three kids while, I mean, she's waking up at, 0.86
00:10:22.460 at times at three in the morning to go do news, uh, segments and then come back, take the
00:10:27.540 kids to school, you know, and then still advocate for me in other ways.
00:10:31.700 And then she, she had the help of my, uh, my brother too.
00:10:34.260 My brother was really, um, a big part of that as well.
00:10:37.480 Um, they were a dynamic duo.
00:10:39.980 So yeah, it's, I mean, I, I look at her in awe just, you know, every day just because
00:10:46.420 of what she did, but you know, it's, and it's prior to that, like, cause you know, being
00:10:49.880 a military spouse, it's, uh, it's not an easy occupation.
00:10:54.380 Um, it takes, you know, a strong, strong woman or a man, if you're a spouse, uh, you know, 0.92
00:11:01.700 your wife is in the military, but, um, it takes a strong person to sit there and wait, you
00:11:06.940 know, for your significant other to come back from overseas while, and you're pretty
00:11:10.840 much a single parent.
00:11:12.280 So you're taking care of everything.
00:11:15.060 So your significant other can come home and, you know, have a decent home to come home to
00:11:20.340 and just relax and not have to worry about anything else.
00:11:23.480 So, I mean, I knew she was strong before all this happened and this just, it was like icing
00:11:29.740 on the cake.
00:11:31.040 Yeah.
00:11:31.720 Well, and not only that, I mean, again, your situation is obviously different, but I know
00:11:36.200 for my wife, when I came home, you know, she had her way of doing things and it was
00:11:41.440 working.
00:11:42.420 It was working without me getting in the way, messing everything up.
00:11:47.180 And then I come back and I throw a wrench in the entire system and I'm like, here, deal
00:11:50.800 with this.
00:11:51.760 Oh, exactly.
00:11:52.520 She has to completely change her lifestyle to, to accommodate me. 1.00
00:11:56.180 You know, that's, that's a, that's a fascinating thing itself.
00:11:59.780 Yeah.
00:12:00.140 I think it's pretty funny.
00:12:01.100 Like this is the longest, obviously I've ever been home, which is almost going on a year
00:12:05.400 now and I'm still just like, I'm just now learning where the dishes go in the cupboards.
00:12:10.940 That's right.
00:12:13.440 No doubt.
00:12:14.500 Wherever she wants them.
00:12:15.960 Yeah.
00:12:16.680 Right.
00:12:17.580 Yeah.
00:12:18.380 So let's, let's pivot gears and shift gears here a little bit.
00:12:21.460 I mean, with, with, with your situation and I think most of the guys listening probably
00:12:25.560 are very familiar or at least somewhat familiar with what, what you've gone through and what
00:12:29.260 you've experienced over the past several years.
00:12:30.900 I just, I got to ask like, why, why do you feel like from what I've experienced, what
00:12:37.760 I've seen, what I've read, what I've heard, it sounds like you were targeted and you, I
00:12:42.860 think you admit to making some mistakes that you would do differently.
00:12:45.840 Like you've said that.
00:12:47.140 Yeah.
00:12:47.500 But it seems like you were, you were targeted as some sort of a scapegoat.
00:12:52.500 Do you feel like that?
00:12:53.480 Or, or how, how would you describe that?
00:12:56.460 Yeah.
00:12:56.820 I, I mean, it's definitely, I mean, there's no other way to put it.
00:13:00.000 I was railroaded to protect the institution of Naval Special Warfare.
00:13:06.440 So there, these four individuals in my platoon came back and started a series of petty, petty
00:13:18.780 rumors that were just pretty much trying to destroy my reputation.
00:13:22.740 We didn't, we didn't get along.
00:13:25.180 There was the first, you know, series of petty allegations had nothing to do with war crimes
00:13:32.320 or murder or anything like that.
00:13:35.580 It was just that I was too aggressive as a leader.
00:13:37.560 I was putting people in dangerous situations and that, that I was a thief, that I stole.
00:13:45.460 Which I think, I think that's kind of natural when you have a bunch of people, you know,
00:13:50.260 you have high achievers, you have red personalities. 0.97
00:13:52.280 I think it's natural in any team environment to say, well, yeah, that guy sucks, but that's 0.96
00:13:57.320 not where it ended for you. 0.98
00:13:58.600 No, and that's, that's, it's, that's, so you, you hit the nail on the coffin, like
00:14:02.800 that, that was just what they, you know, they came back and we've all seen it before, you
00:14:07.720 know, you know, long deployments, especially arduous ones that usually like a little hate
00:14:12.320 train to come back.
00:14:13.320 Usually the leadership is playing.
00:14:15.320 Of course.
00:14:16.120 Like, but you learn, you know, you come back and decompress from deployment and you move
00:14:20.640 on.
00:14:21.140 Um, it's just the way it's, it's always been that these guys, uh, decided to just sort of
00:14:26.680 hold on to it.
00:14:27.760 Um, and when there are petty complaints that they came up with were brushed aside as they
00:14:33.140 were told, like, there's nothing here.
00:14:35.520 That's when they decided to escalate it, uh, to, okay, well then we saw him stab somebody.
00:14:43.880 So the command, they did what they had to do.
00:14:47.240 They can't sit on that.
00:14:48.260 So they were like, well then you need to report this to NCIS.
00:14:52.580 That's where it went off the rails.
00:14:54.220 These guys had a decision right there.
00:14:56.540 They could have like, okay, we're getting called on our bluff and they're telling us
00:15:00.540 to report to NCIS or we should probably, they could have just walked away right then, but
00:15:06.060 they decided to, okay, we'll do this.
00:15:08.340 They called the NCIS.
00:15:09.300 Uh, and the NCIS agent is probably one of the most, that, that got put in charge is probably
00:15:17.040 one of the most corrupt agents I've, you know, ever come across.
00:15:21.120 He formed a prosecution right from the beginning.
00:15:25.260 Um, when he pulled these guys in their first initial interviews, um, and they, the first
00:15:31.680 thing he said to them was, listen, we, this is an open and shut case.
00:15:36.100 He, we already know he's guilty.
00:15:38.580 Just tell us what we need to know.
00:15:41.020 And this is the first person they interviewed the case.
00:15:44.160 They had no evidence.
00:15:45.660 So they gave these guys carte blanche to pretty much say anything.
00:15:48.760 They gave them immunity.
00:15:49.920 So they're, they told them like anything you say, anything you did, nothing will happen
00:15:53.880 to you.
00:15:54.540 Right.
00:15:55.020 Cause one of these guys testified in court, didn't he under immunity and said some incriminating
00:16:00.580 things about himself, but of course said a lot of incriminating things about, about
00:16:04.820 you.
00:16:05.460 Yeah.
00:16:06.100 So yeah, each, each person that went up there and testified against me all had incriminating
00:16:10.080 stuff about themselves, but because they had immunity, not that they knew nothing was
00:16:14.200 going to happen to them.
00:16:15.040 Is that standard?
00:16:15.880 Is that typical?
00:16:16.460 I don't even know.
00:16:17.200 I mean, is that something that's typical?
00:16:18.480 Like we'll grant you immunity if you rat this guy out.
00:16:22.060 Yes, that is pretty much a standard procedure for the UCMJ.
00:16:27.500 Okay.
00:16:28.120 But prosecutors, they will, because what I learned, what we all learned during this is it doesn't,
00:16:35.340 the truth doesn't matter.
00:16:36.940 You know, once it got to that point, the prosecutor, it's all about career making.
00:16:42.320 So the prosecutors wanted to win the case so they could further their career.
00:16:45.620 Same with the NCIS agent.
00:16:48.080 So they'll do whatever it takes for them to win.
00:16:51.040 They're not looking for the truth.
00:16:53.300 I mean, before the trial started, I knew, well, at least one or two prosecutors knew that
00:17:00.120 these guys are lying.
00:17:01.600 Like, and, but they, they didn't stop.
00:17:03.740 You know, they were just like, well, it doesn't matter at this point.
00:17:06.260 It's too, it became too political.
00:17:08.360 It became too big for them to give up.
00:17:11.820 So, yeah.
00:17:14.060 Because it would have undermined them if they would have said, hey, we're going to drop
00:17:17.160 these charges.
00:17:17.780 There's nothing here.
00:17:18.740 Then it would have undermined their own efforts and their own quote unquote work up to that
00:17:23.920 point.
00:17:24.220 Is that what you're saying?
00:17:25.300 Yeah.
00:17:26.040 Yeah.
00:17:26.300 They wasted so many, so much of the taxpayers' dollars to that point.
00:17:31.460 There's no stop.
00:17:33.560 And so they had sort of, these guys that initially accused me, they entrapped them.
00:17:39.340 So two of those guys that they interviewed who were originally like, oh yeah, we don't
00:17:47.100 like him.
00:17:47.600 He did this.
00:17:48.240 They came and visited me when I was locked up in prison and told me straight to my face
00:17:52.420 that, you know, this got too far.
00:17:54.700 This was all a lie.
00:17:56.040 Really?
00:17:56.920 Oh yeah.
00:17:57.440 And they're like, we're trapped.
00:17:59.000 Like they're telling us now that if we change our story, we'll go to prison.
00:18:03.740 So there was, you know, they were sort of stuck.
00:18:07.940 But I can say like those two guys definitely didn't help the prosecution out any further.
00:18:14.040 But, you know, the four other guys got up there and told their lies.
00:18:19.340 I mean, at that, by the time the trial had started, these guys had told so many lies about, I mean,
00:18:25.840 none of their stories coincided.
00:18:27.920 It was pretty, it was pretty embarrassing actually to watch them go up there and just
00:18:32.680 spelt, spelt this crazy stuff off.
00:18:35.240 I mean, the jury saw right through it.
00:18:38.000 You know, even the media, they were making little comments because they were all in the
00:18:41.660 back of the court.
00:18:42.480 And he was just like, I can't believe this is even a, it came to trial.
00:18:47.360 There's nothing here.
00:18:49.200 Right.
00:18:50.260 Yeah.
00:18:50.720 And that, that is, that is one thing that, that I saw, or at least, you know, read up
00:18:56.120 on is that I think initially, and I don't know the term, so help correct me if I'm wrong
00:19:01.600 here, but the, the initial judge basically said, no, there's, there's nothing here.
00:19:08.740 Like we're not taking this to court.
00:19:10.520 And then I don't know if it was your command or who it was that said, oh no, sorry, that's
00:19:15.520 not how this works.
00:19:16.220 This is actually going to court, which I didn't know they had any sort of authority to be
00:19:20.800 able to do something like that. 0.91
00:19:22.100 That sounds asinine to me. 0.98
00:19:24.000 Oh, it's crazy. 0.98
00:19:25.040 And that's, I didn't know either.
00:19:26.040 So I had no idea how any of this system worked, obviously.
00:19:29.680 Of course.
00:19:30.040 I was thrown into it and I got a, I drank from a fire hose along the way and it's crazy.
00:19:37.180 Yeah.
00:19:37.480 So the article 32 hearing, which is like the civilian of a grand jury, it's a civilian equivalent 0.55
00:19:45.040 of a grand jury where they decide whether or not this case should proceed.
00:19:48.620 Um, yeah, that, that initial judge said there's not enough here to move forward, like, especially
00:19:56.500 on two of the murder charges.
00:19:57.600 And, uh, the command, my command, uh, commander Rosenblum and Admiral Green signed off, like,
00:20:05.280 nope, send it forward and charge him with everything.
00:20:09.560 Um, which, you know, was a shocker to me.
00:20:12.780 I think that's, once they did that, that's when I sort of came to realization that, you
00:20:18.260 know, we're against everybody now.
00:20:20.500 Like, not just the, you know, the government and the, uh, Navy as far as legal terms, but
00:20:29.340 now, now my command is fully on board trying to throw me away, which is probably one of
00:20:34.220 the most disheartening things, um, that could have happened, um, that, that crushed me, uh,
00:20:39.500 pretty good, but it's the, I think what people need to realize is, um, it's not the SEAL community
00:20:46.840 itself that was against me.
00:20:49.080 It's the head, like we call it the head shed or the leadership.
00:20:52.080 So it's the, you know, high ranking officers who make these decisions.
00:20:56.660 Um, and, uh, they make decisions based off political, of the political climate at the
00:21:03.020 time.
00:21:03.840 And I think they decided that, Hey, you know, this doesn't look good for us, even, even
00:21:10.560 this story.
00:21:11.380 So we're just going to go all in and hang this guy out, put him away for life.
00:21:15.780 And that way we can say that we, you know, take care of our problem children.
00:21:19.700 Um, when in reality, if they would have done any kind of investigative research or just
00:21:23.560 looked into it, they, I think they would have shut it off.
00:21:27.480 It, it's just interesting because I think about, I'm trying to think about from, from
00:21:32.740 your leadership's perspective.
00:21:33.840 All right.
00:21:34.160 So you can go down one of two routes.
00:21:35.840 You can tell the truth and do an investigation and do it correctly, or you can do it incorrectly,
00:21:39.800 which it sounds like from, from your perspective, that's, that's what it is.
00:21:44.720 And neither way is, is, is gonna, is gonna make you look good necessarily, but there's only
00:21:50.720 one right way to do it.
00:21:51.860 Right?
00:21:52.100 Like, like if you go down the route of like, let's tell the truth, then I can see why there
00:21:56.280 would be some, some vulnerabilities there that they would be exposing.
00:22:00.380 Yeah.
00:22:01.300 Right.
00:22:01.680 So I get that.
00:22:02.380 I understand that not to the degree that we're going to ruin somebody's life over, but I do
00:22:07.460 understand that.
00:22:08.280 But then you go down the bad route, the, the incorrect route, the, the unethical route
00:22:13.240 to say the least, and that's going to make you look just as bad, if not worse.
00:22:18.940 Do you, do you have any sort of continual fear in your life, even after retiring from
00:22:25.740 the military of any sort of retribution or fear for the safety of your family, anything
00:22:30.480 like that?
00:22:32.040 Um, you know, when, after I had retired, um, the only thing that was really, um, happening
00:22:38.440 that was given us, you know, cause to be worried is the New York times.
00:22:45.420 Um, Dave Phillips, who works for New York times.
00:22:48.520 He kept writing articles about me.
00:22:50.680 So he was writing articles all the way through the trial and smearing me.
00:22:54.040 Um, you know, he plastered me as a psychopath and just really, I mean, did a number on me.
00:23:00.760 Um, and then after the trial, he was writing articles that I had gotten away with it.
00:23:05.200 And, um, you know, the justice system messed up and I should be locked up.
00:23:11.140 Um, every time he would write an article, we would get a flurry of death threats, uh, you
00:23:16.660 know, through social media or, you know, my, and then when my kids or my daughter who's
00:23:21.680 in high school has her own, you know, Instagram, um, she started getting threats, people started
00:23:26.260 hunting her down.
00:23:27.480 So we did have to, you know, we called the cops around here and we're just like, Hey,
00:23:31.520 you know, you just keep an eye out.
00:23:33.760 Um, but other than that, I mean, that has, that's died down.
00:23:37.600 I think it's one of the pros of, uh, COVID-19 and my, my story just sort of like got, you
00:23:43.640 know, cast aside, which we were like, thank God.
00:23:45.520 Um, yeah, for sure.
00:23:46.980 Yeah.
00:23:47.580 Uh, well, people are, people are fickle too, right?
00:23:50.700 They'll, they'll look, and I say this all with all the respect that you deserve, they're
00:23:55.060 going to forget about you very, very quickly and they're going to find something else to
00:23:58.240 be upset about or be offended about or lash themselves and their teeth into.
00:24:01.760 And so you'll be an afterthought before too long.
00:24:04.280 Again, I say that with as much respect I have as possible.
00:24:06.760 Yeah, no, that, I mean, that's the truth.
00:24:09.120 And that's, you know, I realized that I, it's the way of the world, you know, what's the next
00:24:13.320 shiny object, uh, to look at.
00:24:15.840 So, you know, I'm fine with that.
00:24:18.060 I'm like, you know, once this dies down, I'm, I'm getting, like, I don't need to be, you
00:24:22.260 know, out here all over the place.
00:24:24.660 Um, but, uh, yeah, I'm not worried about any retribution or anything like that.
00:24:31.200 And I, I always have the same stance I've had before this, which is like, all right, if
00:24:37.240 you want some, come and get it.
00:24:38.460 Like, you know, we're not, we're not scared.
00:24:40.720 You know, I'm not looking for a fight.
00:24:42.080 I'm not, I just want to live peacefully.
00:24:43.320 But if you're going to, I think you're coming to harm or threaten my family in any way, like
00:24:48.400 I'm going to stand up for myself and my family.
00:24:51.980 How has this affected and changed the way that you lead your family?
00:24:55.440 Are you, I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here, trying to make them more situationally
00:24:59.660 aware, is there certain training that even you're taking your wife or your children through
00:25:03.460 or the things that you're trying to explain to them that they need to be more vigilant?
00:25:08.000 I don't know.
00:25:08.460 Has this affected the way that you're leading your family?
00:25:11.380 Um, you know, my kids are, they're comfortable.
00:25:14.300 My kids and wife are all comfortable around guns. 1.00
00:25:16.300 They, you know, each of them know how to, how to shoot.
00:25:18.880 They know where the guns are in the house in case something happens.
00:25:22.560 But other than that, like, I don't, I'm not going to prep them.
00:25:29.000 Like, people are like, oh, you should be vigilant and, like, you're a target.
00:25:31.580 Because I don't want my kids to live like that in, you know, fear.
00:25:35.220 So we don't really, like, push anything too hard on them just, you know, other than just
00:25:41.300 self-defense and how to handle a gun.
00:25:46.060 Other than that, my kid, I mean, my family's pretty vigilant regardless.
00:25:50.240 I mean, my wife and daughter are a lot more situation aware than me and my son.
00:25:55.220 So, look, man, I've got, so I've got three boys and I've got a little girl and, you know,
00:26:01.320 I, I train all of them to the degree that I can, firearms, situationally aware, just
00:26:05.520 even when we go to Walmart, I'm like, hey, look around.
00:26:07.780 Like, what do you see?
00:26:08.840 Who do you see?
00:26:09.740 What are you, what are you looking at?
00:26:11.720 But I'll tell you, it's, it's, it's certainly enhanced with my wife and my daughter.
00:26:16.000 Like I am hyper vigilant.
00:26:17.460 Oh yeah.
00:26:17.920 Those two over my boys for sure.
00:26:20.380 Oh yeah.
00:26:20.940 That's, I mean, that's just human nature right there.
00:26:23.340 I mean, yeah, like I, like I said, I got a daughter in high school.
00:26:26.740 I'm definitely, uh, I have to learn a fine balance of, uh, being overprotective, but then
00:26:31.800 I guess being understanding of, you know, when she goes out with, you know, she has a boyfriend
00:26:36.840 or she wants to hang out.
00:26:39.240 I'm definitely more, uh, amped up than I would be with my son who's going to be going out.
00:26:43.600 Like, you know, where are you going, you know, making sure I know where she is at all times.
00:26:48.760 Just, it's just that, that human nature, you know, especially as a father, you're, you
00:26:53.400 want, you don't want anything to happen to him.
00:26:55.060 Um, right.
00:26:56.360 But there's also the thing where it's like, well, she's going on 17 and you're going to
00:27:02.620 have to let her go.
00:27:03.620 And, you know, eventually there's that trust.
00:27:05.780 So, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful that I'm not, uh, I'm not quite there.
00:27:11.040 My, my, I've, I've got about 12, 12 years or so, if all goes according to plan with my
00:27:16.920 daughter, you know, before, uh, before I really have to worry about getting to that stage.
00:27:21.940 But man, that's a, I just, I can't imagine what was the, um, as I was thinking about what
00:27:29.040 I wanted to talk with you about, I'm like, all right, let me, let me put myself in this
00:27:31.760 guy's shoes.
00:27:32.320 All right.
00:27:32.640 You're, you're, you're sitting in, in the brig, right.
00:27:34.800 You're sitting in prison and your hands are tied.
00:27:39.100 You can't do anything.
00:27:40.260 You're hoping your wife's going to bat. 1.00
00:27:41.560 She is.
00:27:42.300 You're hoping other people are going to bat.
00:27:43.920 Some of them are, some of them aren't.
00:27:45.880 What is the, what is the hardest part about this?
00:27:50.400 Was it nine, nine months that you were locked away for before you ended up on your trial
00:27:55.020 and then being charged on the one, one count of like, I don't, I don't know the count exactly,
00:27:59.440 but I think they got you on that picture, right?
00:28:01.900 Yeah.
00:28:02.220 That's the conduct I'm becoming.
00:28:03.980 Okay.
00:28:04.800 Right.
00:28:05.360 So I'm basically a misdemeanor is, is, is, is what that is.
00:28:08.460 Right.
00:28:08.680 Okay.
00:28:09.140 All right.
00:28:09.480 So what's the hardest part during that time right there?
00:28:16.900 That's a, uh, that's a good question.
00:28:18.320 So I think the hardest while I was locked up is losing that sense of control.
00:28:24.180 Like you have no control over anything that's going on.
00:28:27.160 And I think as men are, you know, especially alpha males, we, we want to control the situation,
00:28:33.940 especially when it's something that we're involved in happening to myself and my family.
00:28:38.620 Um, just coming to the realization, I think I was about two and a half months in.
00:28:43.940 Um, and, um, I had a pretty, pretty important phone call on the, with my wife on the phone.
00:28:51.400 Um, she, she sort of like laid it out for me.
00:28:54.380 Um, she said, you know, we trusted you, you know, all these deployments that you went on,
00:29:01.000 we stood behind you every time you went, because you were telling us it was a righteous thing.
00:29:05.500 You were doing a righteous thing.
00:29:06.700 So we waited for you, you know, and, um, she told me, she's like, now I need you to trust me.
00:29:13.540 And I'm telling you that no one is coming to get you, your command is not coming to get you.
00:29:19.380 There's no one out there that's, you know, going to help you except for us.
00:29:24.380 So you need to, cause I was, you know, definitely complaining to her over the phone.
00:29:30.180 Like, what can we do?
00:29:31.180 You know, trying to come up with these ideas that just kept getting crushed at the time.
00:29:35.500 So she's like, you need to just realize that we're going to take care of it.
00:29:40.300 And you just need to sit in there.
00:29:41.860 Um, so I went to my cell and I'm a believer and, you know, I got down on my hands and knees
00:29:48.980 and I talked to God and I was like, you know what, I'm giving it all to you.
00:29:54.260 Like, this is everything that's happening right now.
00:29:56.660 You can take it from my hands.
00:29:58.220 Um, I trust you, God, and whatever happens, happens.
00:30:01.340 Like if I go away for life, I go away for life.
00:30:04.300 But if I don't, I don't, um, I can tell you what, man, that, that right there, I walked
00:30:09.100 out of my cell after talking to him and I felt like the labor was off my shoulders.
00:30:13.660 Um, it was, uh, it was a pretty, pretty crazy moment.
00:30:17.940 And I got closer to God while I was in there.
00:30:23.380 Um, just because I think it took every, it took everything being taken away from me to
00:30:29.620 just, uh, succumb and be like, okay, you know, I'm not in control.
00:30:34.340 You're in control, you know, Jesus take the wheel.
00:30:36.740 Um, so that was probably one of the most difficult things.
00:30:41.380 And then obviously, you know, it's not all right after that.
00:30:45.580 You still have, you know, dark thoughts because you're sitting, sitting there with your own
00:30:49.780 thoughts for a while.
00:30:50.580 So, I mean, the biggest thought that scared me was, um, if I did go away for life, like what
00:30:59.580 is going to, what is my wife and kids going to do? 0.96
00:31:03.180 And cause to me, I'm like, well, I'm no longer there.
00:31:07.620 So, I mean, start thinking, you know, thinking of ways to tell my wife to remarry, uh, to just
00:31:14.460 forget about me.
00:31:15.540 Uh, cause you know, I didn't want my wife and kids come to visit me in prison for the rest 0.94
00:31:20.780 of their lives.
00:31:21.340 Uh, but I mean, those are all just crazy thoughts that go on in your head.
00:31:24.780 Oh yeah.
00:31:25.300 I can't imagine what it's like.
00:31:26.740 You would never think you would have to, you know, have to think those things.
00:31:30.460 Um, so that, those, I mean, that's the most difficult part about being in there, um, just
00:31:37.060 maintaining your sanity, you know?
00:31:38.740 And while I was in there, they, I was getting mistreated, um, on purpose.
00:31:44.180 Um, the prosecution, NCIS was coming in and telling the guards to try and make me snap, uh, 0.60
00:31:51.460 do stuff to me so they could, you know, point the finger and be like, oh, see, he is psycho.
00:31:55.420 So they were instigating, they were poking at you.
00:31:58.660 Is that what they're causing you to like, try to fight or be insubordinate or something
00:32:02.020 like that?
00:32:03.020 Yeah.
00:32:04.020 I mean, they would come in, strip me naked, uh, like just sit there and say stuff to me. 0.53
00:32:09.020 I'd come tear my room apart.
00:32:11.140 Uh, I would get randomly just searched.
00:32:14.140 Uh, and I think all the other prisoners were just like, what?
00:32:17.380 Like they'd never seen anything like it, uh, threatened to be thrown in solitary for not
00:32:23.740 sitting up straight in my chair. 0.96
00:32:24.740 I mean, it was just ridiculous stuff.
00:32:26.740 Uh, but, uh, luckily I knew, um, what they were doing from the guards that sort of filled
00:32:33.060 me in.
00:32:34.780 So I knew it was a game and I knew just to keep, uh, all I would just do is look at them
00:32:39.780 and be like, okay, this makes you feel better.
00:32:41.980 Um, and it, you know, it worked out.
00:32:45.140 It just, uh, not, you know, not giving in to what they were doing.
00:32:49.540 Um, your, uh, your training probably helped with that too.
00:32:53.140 Cause I mean, I remember, you know, basic training for me, obviously I'm not as trained
00:32:57.100 regarding military as you are, but even in just basic training, I had some guys tell me
00:33:01.380 it's all just a game.
00:33:02.560 It's all just a game.
00:33:04.000 Just roll the punches.
00:33:05.120 If they say something, yes, drill sergeant, take it, accept it.
00:33:08.340 It's all just a game.
00:33:09.780 There's nothing else behind it.
00:33:11.740 And I, and I feel like that was a big, uh, safety net for me, but I also knew I'd be going
00:33:16.660 home in two months.
00:33:17.700 Right.
00:33:18.060 So it's different considering that I might be here forever.
00:33:23.640 So what did you do specifically?
00:33:26.460 I know you prayed, you got connected with God or the other things that you did to keep
00:33:31.560 yourself from, you know, getting into your mind and going down that rabbit hole of darkness
00:33:36.120 that I'm sure was very, very tempting majority of the time you were there.
00:33:40.420 I maintained a pretty strict workout routine.
00:33:43.400 Um, you know, they, they forbid me from working out.
00:33:46.860 Um, so I, even in your, even in your cell, is it a cell?
00:33:51.180 I'm sure you're just a cell just by yourself.
00:33:53.100 Is that what you're, is that how it is?
00:33:55.000 Yeah.
00:33:55.420 So you're in a cell by yourself.
00:33:56.780 Um, and I would do workouts in there, but they, you know, they caught me doing them.
00:34:01.780 I get counseled or whatever, but I, I didn't really care at that point.
00:34:05.240 Uh, so yeah, I would, I keep a pretty strict routine of like doing some calisthenics for
00:34:10.580 an hour, you know, and then also doing it again in the afternoon.
00:34:15.300 Uh, the, I made a couple of friends in there.
00:34:18.900 Um, I was really wary about talking to people.
00:34:21.320 Um, there was a couple of guys, there was one other seal in there with me, um, that was
00:34:26.060 going through some hard times, you know, he was not, not doing as well.
00:34:30.540 Uh, so I tried to help him out and just, you know, tried to be a leader to people, to
00:34:35.900 guys in there.
00:34:36.660 I mean, I was one of the older guys, so there's a lot of 18, 19 year old kids locked up, um,
00:34:42.400 in there for, uh, popping on a piss test, failing, failing the piss test for marijuana, 0.97
00:34:47.520 but because they're in the military, just little stupid things because yeah, because 0.98
00:34:52.040 they're in the military, they got five years and so being in there with those kids and 0.99
00:34:57.260 just trying to keep them positive, uh, and just trying to, you know, get their mental
00:35:01.480 state right.
00:35:02.540 Um, I, I try to take on that role a little bit, uh, just and help me out too.
00:35:08.400 You know, you feel good when you help somebody else.
00:35:10.480 So yeah, I mean, there's a purpose behind that, right?
00:35:12.760 Yeah.
00:35:13.180 Yeah.
00:35:13.540 And that's what you do.
00:35:14.360 You know, you sort of adapt to your environment.
00:35:16.180 I, I definitely didn't have like a feel sorry for myself attitude.
00:35:19.140 Um, I was just like, okay, this is where I'm at.
00:35:22.360 I'm going to adapt to this, uh, and do some things to survive and, you know, um, and also
00:35:28.820 give me a positive mind state and that's helping other people out or especially these younger
00:35:35.020 kids, um, help me out.
00:35:38.380 Right.
00:35:39.360 Why did you, uh, why'd you decide to call your book man in the arena?
00:35:42.560 I'm actually looking at it right here.
00:35:44.080 I've got an excerpt from Theodore Roosevelt's speech titled man in the arena.
00:35:48.580 And so I'm really curious why you decided to title the book that, that itself.
00:35:53.200 Um, so I mean that, that saying or that quote, I've, you know, that's, I've been reading that
00:35:59.960 ever since I joined, you know, Terry and, um, I already had, I had it on a lot of my stuff,
00:36:06.220 like a lot of plaques.
00:36:07.160 Uh, but at my retirement ceremony, I had one of my best friends, um, speak and he's,
00:36:13.000 you know, he's still active duty and he, uh, actually gave me the idea because he was like,
00:36:19.520 you know, when I think of everything that you went through, um, and just knowing you through
00:36:23.640 your whole career, that, that quote, it reminds me of you, like, that's exactly what you did.
00:36:29.340 Um, kept getting back up and, uh, you know, and it's not just from what happened to me
00:36:35.440 during, during trial, but that's my whole career has been, I've always, I've never been
00:36:41.020 like a first time, every time guy, like, I'm pretty much like, I'll go do something, fail
00:36:45.100 at it.
00:36:45.460 And then I become extremely good at it, uh, afterwards.
00:36:48.520 And so, and I, you know, I learned that that's just how I operated from early on.
00:36:53.980 Um, so I, you know, I never got down, every time I failed at something, I just took it as
00:36:59.120 like, okay, I can get better at this and I'll come back stronger, which is, you know, part
00:37:04.580 of the quotes, you know, getting back up every time you get knocked down.
00:37:09.160 Um, and then the big thing is, you know, it's not the critic who counts.
00:37:13.040 It's, that's, that's what hits me hard because there's a lot of people still, you know,
00:37:18.240 criticize, criticize me, uh, for, you know, what went on, but they really, they don't
00:37:24.020 know me as a person.
00:37:25.660 Um, so that's why I decided to, you know, name the book that, uh, I think it, I think
00:37:32.760 it fits well.
00:37:33.520 And then it also describing my wife is also the man in the arena, everything that she
00:37:38.340 did.
00:37:38.740 So it fits.
00:37:41.360 All right, man, let me hit the, uh, the pause button really quick.
00:37:43.580 I know I've got you on the edge of your seat right now.
00:37:45.180 Uh, I want to talk with you about a little bit more about being in the arena today.
00:37:50.320 Uh, and I also want to share with you one often overlooked component of being in the
00:37:54.500 arena and that's battle brothers.
00:37:56.680 Yeah, sure.
00:37:57.320 You can do life alone and hope it all plays out for you.
00:38:00.640 And maybe it will to a degree.
00:38:02.400 Uh, but I can assure you that from personal experience, having a brother who has your back,
00:38:07.060 uh, and will hold you accountable to maximizing your potential is a very, very powerful factor
00:38:12.260 in your life.
00:38:13.160 Uh, and that's exactly what you're going to find inside of the iron council.
00:38:16.540 Uh, you're going to have the opportunity to band with battle brothers, uh, who will help
00:38:20.880 ensure that you stay the course and achieve all that you set out to achieve in 2021.
00:38:25.840 So if you want to learn more about this battle brother concept and all that the iron council
00:38:30.500 has to offer, it's a perfect time to do it.
00:38:32.440 As we come into the new year, then head to order a man.com slash iron council, order a man.com
00:38:38.260 slash iron council, uh, you can do that after the podcast and after the show for now, let's
00:38:43.400 get back to it with Eddie.
00:38:45.580 Yeah, it makes sense.
00:38:46.580 I like that.
00:38:47.260 You're talking about the critic because I think it's very easy to jump to conclusions.
00:38:52.180 And I think in a lot of ways in modern society, we're rewarded and encouraged to have an opinion
00:38:59.940 with very little information, right?
00:39:02.060 So we get these and look, I'm guilty of it too.
00:39:04.740 I'm not absolving myself of any guilt on this, but you know, I jump on Instagram and I, you
00:39:09.080 know, put up some quote and it's very generalized and it's broad sweeping and it's black and
00:39:13.680 white.
00:39:14.020 I'm like, yeah, obviously there's nuance here, you know, but that's not what Instagram is
00:39:17.600 going to reward you for.
00:39:19.360 Yeah.
00:39:20.060 And it's the same thing with having these types of conversations, which I'm learning is,
00:39:23.860 you know, you can, you can join Fox news and be on there for, you know, 60 or 90 seconds
00:39:29.340 and try to make your case.
00:39:30.940 But like, what is it that you can possibly say in a matter of 60 or 90 seconds?
00:39:35.280 And that's why I think conversations like this, where we have an hour or longer to sit
00:39:38.880 down are so valuable, but it's hard because people just are not conditioned to pick up
00:39:44.860 on the nuance and actually listen for what's going on.
00:39:47.620 And they jump to conclusions so quickly.
00:39:49.300 Again, myself included.
00:39:51.080 Oh yeah, for sure.
00:39:52.040 I'm, you know, and I'm guilty of that as well.
00:39:54.280 I definitely was guilty of that before all this happened.
00:39:57.640 But I can tell you like going through, going through all that now, like I look at everything
00:40:03.200 through a totally different lens.
00:40:05.800 You know, I see an article or whatever, you know, the clickbait material everybody puts
00:40:11.200 out.
00:40:11.720 It's, I'm like, that's, I don't believe anything I read anymore.
00:40:16.000 I have to dig into it and probably read like three or four articles to like really get some
00:40:21.360 kind of facts, but I just don't think people these days have the attention span.
00:40:27.240 You know, everything is like now, now, now, you know, we're on our phones all day.
00:40:31.600 Everything's fed to us instantaneously.
00:40:34.120 So I think it's hard for people to sit down and like actually delve into whatever, you know,
00:40:39.760 they're looking at and find, find some facts out of it.
00:40:42.540 They'll just jump, like you said, they'll jump to a conclusion and then just start giving
00:40:46.260 their own critiques on it or like what they think and their thoughts, which their thoughts
00:40:51.120 have the time they're baseless because they don't even know the facts.
00:40:54.220 Of course.
00:40:54.920 Well, and then it, and then it gets worse because we, we form our, our conclusion on faulty
00:41:00.460 or flawed or in, in, uh, incomplete information.
00:41:04.740 And then we get assigned a team, right?
00:41:07.360 So now, now you're on that team because you think that one certain way.
00:41:11.620 And, and I've, I've made, I'm conservative, you know, I know you are too, just because I've
00:41:16.440 seen your posts and things like that.
00:41:17.600 Uh, most of the guys listening know that.
00:41:20.080 And so I'll say something that doesn't align, for example, with the conservative, you know,
00:41:24.620 the conservative talking points and people, they'll lose their minds because I said something
00:41:29.160 that went counter to what the team is supposed to believe and say and think and regurgitate.
00:41:36.300 Oh, I know it's nuts.
00:41:37.580 It's like, you can't be your own person anymore.
00:41:40.620 Like you have to belong to a side.
00:41:42.460 And I mean, that's, I'm, I'm the same way where, yeah, I'm conservative, but I don't
00:41:47.960 believe like all the extreme right wing ideas, you know, like, you know, if I listen to somebody
00:41:54.500 that's just completely extreme right wing, I'm like, I just tune them out.
00:41:57.920 It's the same as I do with an extreme left wing person.
00:42:01.080 I'm like, all right, you guys are like out of your minds, you know?
00:42:05.420 So, um, you know, I just, like you said, it's, um, I was going with it, but, um, it's hard
00:42:16.420 to be like a free thinker nowadays, I think, or, you know, or just look down upon.
00:42:20.880 And I think this, a big thing with this, uh, especially today's society is we've become
00:42:26.940 so fake as a country that the truth offends people.
00:42:31.440 Yeah, for sure.
00:42:32.680 So, I mean, yeah, as soon as you're speaking any kind of truth, you know, on any subject,
00:42:38.040 if somebody doesn't like it, they're going to cancel you out somewhere.
00:42:41.620 Try to.
00:42:42.680 That's true, man.
00:42:43.800 I've, I've made posts of something is what I thought was, was seemingly insignificant as
00:42:48.660 saying that a man is a biological male.
00:42:53.160 And, uh, you know, it's like, how come you're transphobic?
00:42:58.800 I'm like, I didn't actually say anything about that.
00:43:00.880 I just said a man is a biological male like that.
00:43:03.660 There's nothing else to jump to the conclusion on.
00:43:05.720 Or so I thought, but people listen to that and they interpret it through their own lens
00:43:10.040 and their own, you know, their own baggage.
00:43:12.960 Uh, and, and, and everything's taken out of context, man.
00:43:15.600 It's very, very frustrating for sure.
00:43:17.200 Exactly.
00:43:17.620 And you said, you said it's out of their own baggage.
00:43:19.660 Like every, you know, I read comments like that or negative, it's all you got to think
00:43:24.260 of it.
00:43:24.580 That's their problem.
00:43:25.820 Like you don't, something you said, I mean, you didn't say anything offensive.
00:43:30.220 It's whatever they got going on in their life.
00:43:32.360 They're just trying to portray it, you know, put it on you.
00:43:34.980 So.
00:43:35.860 Yeah.
00:43:36.260 I feel, I feel sorry for those people that decided to get on there and it's like, all
00:43:40.480 right, man, I don't, and I don't respond to them either.
00:43:43.780 That's good.
00:43:44.400 Cause with the amount of, of, of hate that I get, I only imagine it's, you know, 10,
00:43:50.100 hundred times fold for you.
00:43:51.700 Do you get, do you get acknowledged and recognized on the street, both positively and negatively?
00:43:56.600 Uh, so I've never been recognized negatively.
00:43:59.580 Not one person has said anything negative to my face.
00:44:02.560 Um, you know, that's all been through that's that elevator test that, uh, Andy was talking
00:44:08.060 about, right?
00:44:08.820 Yeah.
00:44:09.720 Yeah.
00:44:10.540 Um, you know, and like I said, you know, I see the negative comments and I learned real
00:44:15.980 quick, just not to respond to Andy.
00:44:19.100 It's, that's exactly what they want you to do.
00:44:21.640 They want you to get on there and either try and plead your case or like, Hey, and then
00:44:25.420 they got you.
00:44:26.840 And I'm like, Oh, cause they just spend all day on there.
00:44:29.260 And, uh, you know, now you're in their world.
00:44:31.980 So you're like, it's better not to respond.
00:44:34.640 Um, and then I legitimately had a guy one time tell me that he gets, he was, he engaged
00:44:40.720 with me negatively.
00:44:41.340 Right.
00:44:41.680 And I, and I got sucked into it cause he was very good at it.
00:44:43.900 They're very good at it to their credit.
00:44:46.240 And he legitimately told me he just gets paid to do this online all day.
00:44:49.700 So it doesn't matter to him.
00:44:50.520 He'll stay in here all day.
00:44:51.340 I'm like, what in the world is happening?
00:44:54.400 Like I said, yeah, you're in his, his world now.
00:44:56.600 He's like, I got you.
00:44:58.960 Uh, but I've had people, people come up to me, um, every once in a while, like, uh, shortly
00:45:04.620 after the trial and everything, it was a lot, a lot busier.
00:45:07.160 I get recognized a lot in airports and places I went, it was all, you know, people come up
00:45:11.860 shaking my hands and they were supporting me.
00:45:13.700 So it was all positive.
00:45:14.860 I was grateful for all that.
00:45:16.360 Um, but it's sort of, you know, it's died off and especially now traveling around with
00:45:20.140 a mask on, they're disguised.
00:45:22.860 So it's pretty, yeah, that's a blessing in disguise.
00:45:25.120 I bet for you.
00:45:26.080 Yeah.
00:45:26.900 How do you, uh, so I know you've got a daughter, you said in high school, I mean, I don't want 1.00
00:45:30.760 to get personal here necessarily, but, uh, with, do you have two boys that are younger
00:45:35.160 than your daughter?
00:45:36.240 Uh, no, I have a, uh, 20 year old son.
00:45:38.640 He's in college.
00:45:39.840 Oh, okay.
00:45:40.620 Yeah.
00:45:40.820 16 year old daughter.
00:45:41.840 And then I'm like, okay, gotcha.
00:45:43.880 How do you explain this to your children?
00:45:47.220 Cause I'm sure, you know, it seems like you're pretty grounded.
00:45:50.060 You, you obviously spent a lot of time, like really trying to fortify yourself against going
00:45:56.260 down these dark paths and thinking about all this stuff.
00:45:59.160 How did you, and how do you continue to explain this to your children who probably have some
00:46:03.600 sort of, I don't know, resentment, animosity, um, frustrations about, you know, losing their
00:46:10.880 dad for almost a year.
00:46:12.060 Um, it's, it's an ongoing process.
00:46:18.540 Uh, you know, I don't have that down, um, completely yet.
00:46:22.680 Um, like I said, I took this year to really like focus on, uh, myself and heal myself.
00:46:28.040 Um, so I can better articulate to my kids, you know, exactly what happened and just, um,
00:46:34.720 you know, talk to them about it.
00:46:36.460 And the big thing for me was releasing, getting rid of all the anger and frustration that I
00:46:41.140 had so that I could have a conversation with my kids about what happened without getting
00:46:45.440 angry about it.
00:46:47.060 Um, my kids, you know, it did, it did a number on them.
00:46:51.080 Um, they definitely, they were confused, uh, frustrated, uh, especially my older son who
00:46:58.380 was in college at the time.
00:46:59.680 Um, he was going to UC Santa Cruz and, um, it's a predominantly left lane thought college.
00:47:08.120 So he was hearing a lot of, I mean, the kids there didn't know he was my son.
00:47:12.460 I told him to keep it that way, but he would hear the comments, you know, that I should 0.92
00:47:18.660 be shot or hung or whatever. 0.99
00:47:20.880 And I just told him, I was like, listen, just keep, you know, keep your mouth shut. 0.98
00:47:24.060 Don't, don't engage.
00:47:25.620 He's my kids are strong kids.
00:47:28.020 Um, I think because they came up through in the steel community, um, you know, they've
00:47:34.500 had actual real tragedies that I had to deal with, you know, my close, close teammates
00:47:39.740 who I've lost, uh, who are like uncles to them, you know, they, they've seen them put
00:47:45.520 on the ground, uh, and they, they don't, we've never hit anything from my kids as far as what
00:47:50.940 we do as what I did as a seal or what the consequences can be.
00:47:56.460 So I think that really, uh, pardoned them a little bit for all this.
00:48:01.740 And, you know, they, they maintain their strong kids.
00:48:05.020 They maintain through it.
00:48:06.260 Um, and I think now we just try to stay positive afterwards.
00:48:10.340 Like I'm out of the military, I'm home.
00:48:13.140 Um, you know, I haven't been home for 20 years, uh, for a consistent amount of time.
00:48:18.160 So we're really just trying to take this time to be together.
00:48:21.180 And I'm trying to sort of learn how to be a father, full-time father home, but it's,
00:48:27.560 it's been good.
00:48:28.340 I mean, my, I think my, my kids are just happy that I'm home and that's, that's all
00:48:31.640 they wanted.
00:48:32.080 But so it's, yeah, I bet.
00:48:36.360 Um, well, that's one of the things I talked with you about when we hopped on the phone
00:48:40.580 last week, as I said, man, I just wanted to tell you how much I see you spending time
00:48:44.040 with your wife and your kids.
00:48:45.240 And I wish more people would, cause you posted online, which I actually like, and I wish more
00:48:51.100 people would do that.
00:48:51.960 I try to do that because that's been good for me.
00:48:55.180 And I think that would be good for other men.
00:48:56.740 And, and usually what you'll see is people posting, you know, the vacations and the,
00:49:01.900 the, the big experiences they go on, their families aren't there.
00:49:05.120 They, they, they share their business accolades and, and all that stuff's great.
00:49:08.500 I'm not, I'm not trying to diminish that, but I'm saying, man, like how valuable, important
00:49:13.420 is this?
00:49:14.080 And I think that's a message message that needs to be shared.
00:49:16.380 And that's something that you're actually doing very well.
00:49:18.860 What, what have, what have been the struggles of fatherhood for you?
00:49:21.760 Cause I mean, you've always been a father, right?
00:49:23.760 You know, you've got, you've got kids that are, that are out of the house now or getting
00:49:26.600 close.
00:49:27.780 So you've been a father, but you haven't been engaged to the degree that you are physically.
00:49:32.780 So what, what, what have been the biggest challenges for you and raising your kids now
00:49:38.180 that you're home full-time and permanently?
00:49:42.460 Yeah.
00:49:44.160 Definitely the disciplinary aspect of things.
00:49:48.160 Um, I was more of the nice guy.
00:49:53.040 I'm not the disciplinarian just because, and probably the fun one too, right?
00:49:56.720 Cause you come home and you're like, let's do all the fun stuff.
00:49:58.740 And mom's like, what the hell I've been disciplining the kids and you get to have fun with them.
00:50:03.400 Exactly.
00:50:03.840 Yeah.
00:50:04.120 So that's, you know, my wife's always the bad guy. 1.00
00:50:06.580 Yeah, for sure.
00:50:07.520 I missed her good time.
00:50:08.400 And that's just, you know, like you said, I never wanted to come back and leave on a bad
00:50:14.380 note.
00:50:14.620 Like I just, you know, disciplined them.
00:50:16.380 So, um, getting into like the swing of that and then like, okay, like really hammering
00:50:22.200 down with discipline.
00:50:23.480 Um, you know, like the first couple of times I did it, my kids were looking at me like,
00:50:28.140 what's like, you know, but they're better than like, who, who the hell do you think 0.53
00:50:32.460 you are?
00:50:32.920 Right.
00:50:33.680 Oh yeah, exactly.
00:50:35.240 But I'll tell you what, because I don't discipline them.
00:50:37.620 Uh, like I'm not the main disciplinarian when I do say something that happens like, like
00:50:42.080 that, you know, like, okay, it's, he's not messing around.
00:50:45.180 Um, and then, uh, just, um, I mean, transition itself out of the military as it's great.
00:50:55.020 You know, it's, it's been crazy just like dealing, dealing with the everyday stuff, like
00:50:59.720 dropping my kids off at school, like doing homework with them.
00:51:02.580 Um, um, the struggle has been sort of like trying to really focus and, you know, buckle
00:51:09.560 down and sit down with the kids and do their stuff with them.
00:51:11.940 Even, even if I don't want to do it, I'm like, all right, this, this is, you know, what a
00:51:16.860 man's supposed to do, what a father's supposed to do.
00:51:18.880 Um, and the kids appreciate it, you know, even though they might not show it at the end,
00:51:23.180 they're, they're definitely happy that you spend time with them.
00:51:26.860 Um, and then the big thing is with my daughter, obviously that, I think that's any man's
00:51:30.800 struggle once your daughter reaches high school age, which that's, but she's such a, I mean,
00:51:35.460 she's an amazing woman, um, that I just, I have to find that balance of, uh, letting her
00:51:44.280 sort of be free and then still trying to be a protective dad.
00:51:47.580 Yeah.
00:51:48.900 Yeah.
00:51:49.300 There's a fine line.
00:51:50.220 Do you ever feel like, I'm going to say it this way and, and take it with a grain of salt
00:51:53.740 and for the, the, the way that it's intended.
00:51:55.420 Do you ever feel like family life is too like low speed for you?
00:52:00.800 I, I, I don't know if that's the right way to phrase it, but sometimes like, for example,
00:52:04.680 my wife is, is gone.
00:52:06.960 She's been gone for a couple of days.
00:52:08.120 My kids in fact, right now are downstairs.
00:52:10.520 I don't know what they're doing.
00:52:11.420 They're quiet, which could either be really good or really bad.
00:52:13.700 I don't know what they're doing right now.
00:52:15.500 Um, but sometimes I feel like, you know, my daughter's like, let's read.
00:52:19.000 And I want to read with my daughter, but at the same time, I'm like, no, I got a podcast
00:52:21.660 and I got emails and I got this and I got that and I got to grow the business.
00:52:24.480 And sometimes I feel like, again, take it with a grain of salt.
00:52:27.820 It's like a little too low speed.
00:52:29.940 And it's hard for me to like, just sit there and be present in reading a Dr. Seuss book with
00:52:36.240 my daughter.
00:52:36.920 Does that make sense?
00:52:38.020 No, completely.
00:52:38.940 And you know, you, you hit it on the button.
00:52:41.060 It's, uh, that that's like part of the transition process is going from this, how I describe it.
00:52:49.020 Like the seal community is you're on a train going under 20 miles an hour, like all the 1.00
00:52:53.940 time and everything that you deal with or that happens, you just throw in the caboose
00:52:59.840 and you're like, just keep going.
00:53:01.500 And that's, I mean, that's the lifestyle that you lead.
00:53:03.580 So like, even when I was home and this, this sucks to say, but it's the truth.
00:53:07.740 Like, even when I was home during my career, my mind wasn't at home.
00:53:12.160 It was always, what's the next thing, you know, next train trip, the next deployment.
00:53:19.020 And I didn't realize I was like that until I got out and it sort of hits you.
00:53:26.380 And you're like, dude, I, like, I had this, uh, almost like an anxiety feeling.
00:53:31.360 Like there's something coming up, but there's nothing.
00:53:34.300 So there's nothing coming up.
00:53:36.100 But I, to me, I was like, you know, I'm looking for the next thing.
00:53:41.440 And that took some time to get used to.
00:53:44.060 So yeah, so, but I, I think it wasn't an easy process, but I think now after being
00:53:49.680 home a year, I've, I've definitely come into my own life.
00:53:53.400 I've accepted.
00:53:54.000 I like, this is, this is a life I want because it, and that's the crazy part is it is a life
00:53:59.540 I want, but after 20 years of living that 120 mile an hour speed life, it's, it takes
00:54:04.940 some time to like really decompress from that and just settle into being home.
00:54:09.460 Um, so yeah, it's, that, that's been a difficult part of it as well.
00:54:14.820 Yeah.
00:54:15.180 I think that, I think that's something most men listening to, if they have families, most,
00:54:19.440 most men experience.
00:54:21.600 That's why I wanted to ask you is because, you know, you go from this, you know, this,
00:54:26.220 this, this crazy job.
00:54:27.480 And I think probably, I think crazy job is probably because I've seen a lot of movies,
00:54:31.740 you know, it's probably not as, as crazy or intense or exciting as we make it out to be,
00:54:36.960 you know, but yeah, it's, uh, that's definitely true too.
00:54:40.900 Yeah.
00:54:41.100 It's not a Hollywood enough like they've portrayed in the movies.
00:54:43.720 A lot of, a lot of sitting around waiting.
00:54:45.680 Yeah.
00:54:46.280 Yeah.
00:54:46.900 Yeah.
00:54:47.180 And I, and I've been on the, uh, the receiving end of that, you know, and people say, oh yeah,
00:54:51.320 you're in the military and you did this and this.
00:54:52.880 I'm like, yeah, I did that like 10% of the time or less. 0.98
00:54:55.720 And the other 95% of the time was sitting around like inventing stupid games to like pass 0.56
00:55:02.220 the time, you know, yeah, I think, you know, and I, I think for, you know, guys listening 0.95
00:55:11.200 or whatever, um, it, it took me like, I wouldn't say that it took me to have my family ripped
00:55:18.520 away from me and possibly for the rest of my life to really appreciate it.
00:55:21.240 But it gave me a new perspective, just being a home now and like, I, this I'm on borrowed
00:55:28.020 time, you know, like this could have been all been taken away from me.
00:55:31.720 So when I start feeling like that, that feeling of like, oh, I should be doing something else
00:55:37.140 or this is too slow for me.
00:55:39.340 I, I'm able to like pull from that and be like, you know what, this is, this is the most important
00:55:45.780 thing right here, it's my kids and everything that you do with them, like, even though you
00:55:51.460 may not think it is affecting them and they're, they're, uh, like even the little time that
00:55:57.100 you do spend them, they appreciate it.
00:55:59.360 I mean, they remember things like that.
00:56:01.440 That's, what's really going to like help them grow, um, into a human being that you want
00:56:06.920 them to be.
00:56:08.000 Yeah.
00:56:08.200 How do you, uh, how do you feel like, so, so in this conversation, it sounds like, even
00:56:15.360 though in the midst of this unreal situation that I, I just, I mean, it's a movie.
00:56:20.400 It's not, it doesn't even seem like real life.
00:56:22.220 Like this wouldn't have been a better script that some, you know, fictional writer could,
00:56:26.280 could draft up.
00:56:27.560 Um, so you have this insane experience of your life that lasts a couple of years and, but you've
00:56:34.720 talked about some positives that have come from it.
00:56:36.680 Like your relationship, for example, with God, and then your perspective in why family
00:56:40.660 is so important.
00:56:42.480 How do you plan on maintaining those positive perspectives now that life is, I don't want
00:56:48.300 to say easier, but maybe just a little smoother relative to what it's been over the past several
00:56:55.140 years.
00:56:55.960 Yeah.
00:56:56.680 Um, well that's, that comes with, I think, finding a new purpose.
00:57:00.560 Uh, and that's another huge positive or blessing that came out of this is, um, you know, we,
00:57:09.220 we got to see behind the curtain that we didn't know existed, which is this corrupt, uh, legal
00:57:15.600 system that's in the military.
00:57:16.880 Um, you know, you know, my story is just one in a thousand of like those guys, you know,
00:57:23.860 getting unjustly punished right now.
00:57:26.100 Um, and so we started the, um, Pipeter Foundation, um, which is up and running now and we're helping
00:57:34.760 first responders, uh, law enforcement and active duty members.
00:57:38.560 Um, if they're being unjustly accused or targeted, we will help fund their legal defense, um, we'll
00:57:46.800 advocate for them and we also provide, uh, emergency relief funds to the family because, as we found
00:57:53.520 out when you go through it, it's a very stressful time, um, and you know, the military and also
00:58:00.260 first responders and law enforcement don't get paid enough to have, um, to be able to afford
00:58:05.140 a group of good lawyers or whatever.
00:58:06.880 So how do you guys, uh, how do you vet these individuals?
00:58:10.220 Like, how do you know whether they're being unjustly, you know, targeted or, or they are
00:58:15.400 in fact innocent versus, you know, somebody that maybe is being justly accused.
00:58:20.880 So how do you, how do you vet that whole process?
00:58:23.360 We have a, so we have a board, um, so the way it works is, uh, that person will apply for
00:58:28.980 a grant on our site and then our board, uh, once, sometimes twice a month would use.
00:58:35.140 All of the applications and we, we, when they fill out the application, we ask them to be
00:58:40.180 very detailed, uh, on everything they're being charged with or else we just won't accept it.
00:58:46.140 Um, right.
00:58:47.900 So we look, we delve into it pretty deeply.
00:58:50.820 Um, and you know, I'll, I'll say we turn away a lot of applicants because we're like,
00:58:54.640 this doesn't seem right.
00:58:56.520 Um, but then, you know, I have, uh, really great lawyer, Mark McCasey's on the board.
00:59:03.520 Um, I have, um, law enforcement members in the board, other seals, uh, retired seals.
00:59:11.520 And so altogether, you know, we, we usually come up with a pretty good, like, okay, you
00:59:16.520 know, we're, we're all in favor of helping this person out.
00:59:19.520 And I'll tell you this too, like, even if a person's guilty, what we're finding out now
00:59:23.520 too, and we're helping some, even if they got found guilty, the, the punishments that
00:59:28.520 are being handed out by the military do not fit the crime.
00:59:31.520 So like the military, like you're like sort of what I got charged with was conduct I'm
00:59:38.520 becoming picture.
00:59:39.520 That's a misdemeanor.
00:59:40.520 But because I went to a court martial, they tried to take away my retirement.
00:59:45.520 They tried to take away my whole 20 years of service for that.
00:59:48.520 Uh, take away my trident, which I mean, would destroy myself and my family.
00:59:53.520 That's just, you know.
00:59:54.520 And that's where, that's where Trump stepped in.
00:59:56.520 Right.
00:59:57.520 Cause I think there's a misconception out there that he pardoned you, but you only got
01:00:00.520 you weren't pardoned.
01:00:02.520 You didn't get tried or, or, or found, I should say guilty of these, some of these
01:00:07.520 allegations, just this, uh, this conduct unbecoming, which, which he didn't have to
01:00:12.520 pardon you served.
01:00:13.520 Actually you served twice as long as your, your sentencing was, if I understand.
01:00:17.520 Yeah.
01:00:18.520 Almost, almost three times as long as three times.
01:00:20.520 Yeah.
01:00:21.520 Um, so yeah, the president did not pardon me.
01:00:23.520 He, he called and just said, listen, you're going to be able to, you're going to retire with
01:00:27.520 everything that you earned over 20 years.
01:00:29.520 That's the rank that you are at right now.
01:00:32.520 I mean, that's what he did for me because other than that, I would, it would be like
01:00:36.520 the 20 years of my life just got erased.
01:00:38.520 Uh, which is insane because look, I saw that picture.
01:00:41.520 I think I saw the picture in question.
01:00:43.520 I think that was the right one.
01:00:44.520 And yeah, it's, it's, it's not in good taste.
01:00:47.520 You, you've admitted to that.
01:00:48.520 You've said that, but it's not the end of the world either.
01:00:52.520 Like it isn't, it isn't, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
01:00:57.520 Totally.
01:00:58.520 And that's, that's what we're seeing with a lot of people were helping.
01:01:01.520 So, um, you know, whether, you know, sometimes a person is guilty or like, okay, he served
01:01:08.520 his time.
01:01:09.520 But now the command is really like going, going after him and taking away his medical benefits
01:01:14.520 and everything's, you know, that's not right.
01:01:17.520 Uh, you know, people make mistakes.
01:01:19.520 They pay for those mistakes and should just be left with that.
01:01:23.520 Um, but I think.
01:01:24.520 Do you think that command does that?
01:01:26.520 Sorry, man.
01:01:27.520 I didn't mean to interrupt you.
01:01:28.520 I was just curious on this, the, the command thing you're talking about.
01:01:31.520 Does command do that because they feel embarrassed?
01:01:34.520 Like, and so that it's a way to like poke and get back and get some retribution.
01:01:39.520 Like what?
01:01:40.520 Ego.
01:01:41.520 So it's all like ego gets involved.
01:01:43.520 Um, because you gotta think you're, it's not a, uh, it's not a non-biased process.
01:01:48.520 You have, uh, your commander who knows you or you're one of his guys.
01:01:54.520 And the second, like he gets embarrassed or something doesn't go his way.
01:01:59.520 Guess who?
01:02:00.520 He's probably going to take it out on you.
01:02:02.520 Of course.
01:02:03.520 All of that, all that ego and emotions falls into whatever decision he's going to make.
01:02:08.520 And we're, you know, we're seeing it now with multiple members, members that were helping
01:02:12.520 that, I mean, they're, they're getting raked over the coals just because this commander
01:02:18.520 who was making these decisions is buggered that things didn't go his way.
01:02:22.520 Right.
01:02:23.520 So we're sticking up to those people too, you know, because they're human beings and you
01:02:28.520 can't just throw them to the street.
01:02:29.520 What we're seeing is they're throwing these service members to the street doing nothing.
01:02:32.520 And then guess what that leads to?
01:02:34.520 The 22 a day at a time.
01:02:36.520 Right.
01:02:37.520 Yeah.
01:02:38.520 It goes hand in hand and it's only going to get worse.
01:02:41.520 Can I ask you something personally about that?
01:02:42.520 Actually, Eddie, on that, the 22 a day is, is that something did you during this experience
01:02:47.520 ever contemplate, seriously contemplate and consider taking your own life?
01:02:50.520 No, no, not once.
01:02:53.520 I got asked that a couple of times, you know, like, oh, you think about suicide.
01:02:59.520 And now I was like, but if I go away for life, it's like, I will probably end up trying to
01:03:06.520 escape until someone kills me.
01:03:08.520 Hey, look, that's, that's actually one of the, you're trained, right?
01:03:12.520 You got, that's part of your training is to escape.
01:03:15.520 Like that's part of your training, which I think is why they probably considered you
01:03:18.520 maybe a flight risk.
01:03:19.520 I think at one point I heard, uh, because you do have some of that training.
01:03:23.520 Uh, that's what they use to keep me.
01:03:25.520 Right.
01:03:26.520 They, they, uh, they're like, oh, you're a Navy SEAL.
01:03:28.520 So we have to keep, uh, which I thought was pretty disgusting as well.
01:03:33.520 They use my job against me at every school.
01:03:36.520 Using the job they trained you to do.
01:03:38.520 Yeah.
01:03:39.520 So they, you know, that was the reason they kept me in, but yeah, no, I, I never went to
01:03:44.520 that, that, you know, that dark of the space.
01:03:47.520 Uh, and I'm not, yeah, I just, it never crossed my mind.
01:03:52.520 Yeah.
01:03:53.520 Are you guys doing any, the pipe hitter foundation?
01:03:55.520 Are you guys doing any outside of representing these individuals doing any sort of, uh, lobbying
01:04:00.520 for the way the UCMJ is administered?
01:04:03.520 Is that, is that a, is that a branch of what you guys are doing?
01:04:06.520 That's yeah.
01:04:07.520 That's one of the purposes is to sort of ask for UCMJ reform.
01:04:10.520 Um, we're not, we're not at that platform yet.
01:04:14.520 Uh, since, you know, 2020 has been kind of number on everybody.
01:04:17.520 So, I mean, we've got the nonprofit started, but then the, you know, the fundraising is
01:04:22.520 going to go slow just because of the librarian that's going on.
01:04:25.520 So I think once we're hoping in 2021, that's when, uh, we'll be able to start going out
01:04:30.520 lobbying for, you know, UCMJ reform because it's an archaic system.
01:04:35.520 Yeah.
01:04:36.520 It sounds like it.
01:04:37.520 I mean, fortunately I haven't had a much experience with it for myself.
01:04:40.520 So that's a good thing.
01:04:41.520 Um, but yeah, I mean, based on what I've heard and what I've seen and what I've heard you
01:04:46.520 talk about on another podcast and of course in the book, like, it seems like there definitely
01:04:50.520 needs, there, there's a lot of conflicts of interest there that I think need to be extracted.
01:04:53.520 Um, so there isn't that personal attachment to it.
01:04:57.520 Like you were talking about earlier.
01:04:58.520 Exactly.
01:04:59.520 Yeah.
01:05:00.520 I mean, I think it's, it's hard to explain to civilians, um, just how messed up the UCMJ
01:05:07.520 is, but like, you know, I have, you can, the Navy assigned you a defense lawyer, you know,
01:05:13.520 if you're being charged with something, but this is what, what I saw.
01:05:17.520 And the problem is that your defense lawyer could work for the prosecutor who's prosecuting
01:05:23.520 you and they both could work, end up working for the judge.
01:05:26.520 Right.
01:05:27.520 So they, you won't be properly defended because that jag that's defending you is worried 1.00
01:05:33.520 about his career.
01:05:34.520 It's like, well, you know, even when we caught the prosecution doing the legal stuff, I'm,
01:05:38.520 I was sitting there like, how is it that they're getting away with this?
01:05:41.520 And it was because nobody wants to say anything.
01:05:44.520 Cause we're like, well, that guy might write my pit rep later on down the line, like call
01:05:48.520 him out on this.
01:05:49.520 It's going to look bad on me.
01:05:50.520 And I mean, that is literally how it works.
01:05:52.520 And so.
01:05:53.520 That's interesting.
01:05:54.520 I hadn't considered that.
01:05:55.520 Yeah.
01:05:56.520 Did you got outside representation then eventually?
01:05:57.520 Is that what you ended up doing?
01:05:59.520 Okay.
01:06:00.520 So representation, not that as not part of the military civilian representation.
01:06:04.520 Yep.
01:06:05.520 Yeah.
01:06:06.520 So we ended up, and that's where the fundraising aspect comes in because we couldn't afford
01:06:12.520 the lawyers that we had.
01:06:14.520 So thank God.
01:06:15.520 Thank God that, you know, there was so many, you know, patriots that got behind me and Americans
01:06:21.520 made, they donated to help us pay for our legal visa.
01:06:24.520 If they didn't do that, we'd be, we'd be in debt right now.
01:06:29.520 Um, so yeah, we definitely had to hire outside.
01:06:33.520 Cause I, I wasn't leaving it up to, you know, military, not to say that there are some good
01:06:40.520 military lawyers out there, but I, no doubt I wasn't, I wasn't messing around.
01:06:44.520 Like your life, man.
01:06:47.520 Yeah.
01:06:48.520 Yeah.
01:06:49.520 Uh, what's your, uh, what is your perception of, of military service now and, and, and everything
01:06:56.520 that's gone on for you, both positive and negative, you know, I'm sure there's some, some thoughts
01:07:01.520 on both sides of that.
01:07:02.520 I'm really curious what your take is now that you're on the other side of things looking
01:07:06.520 back.
01:07:07.520 Yeah.
01:07:08.520 Um, you know, I have no negative thoughts on my, my, my service or anything like that.
01:07:15.520 Like I wouldn't give back the past 20 years for anything that was, I mean, it shaped me
01:07:20.520 into who I am today.
01:07:21.520 Um, I, I've loved my job.
01:07:24.520 I love the guys that I was with.
01:07:26.520 Um, I still, you know, I miss it.
01:07:28.520 Um, uh, but I think definitely looking back.
01:07:33.520 Um, there's, I, I would feel like if I was going to talk to somebody that wanted to join
01:07:41.520 right now, like seals or a kid and I do it once in a while, I would definitely be honest
01:07:47.520 with him and be like, you know, if you're going to do this job, if you make it through,
01:07:52.520 you are going to give up certain aspects of yourself.
01:07:55.520 Um, you know, whether you like it or not, you know, you're going to give up parts to
01:08:00.520 your brain, you know, your parts of your soul, you know, it's, and it will have, you know,
01:08:07.520 repercussions in the end, but just so as long as that person knows that, like, this is part
01:08:11.520 of the, uh, sacrifice, you know, of doing the job.
01:08:15.520 Um, I don't, I don't think that that was explained to anybody going in and I wouldn't,
01:08:19.520 even if that was explained to me when I was little, I still would have done it.
01:08:22.520 I was younger, you know, 18, 19, I was like, this is what I want to do.
01:08:27.520 But you're also being recruited by people who don't understand.
01:08:30.520 Like they, how, how would a recruiter for the most part, I'm sure there's some special
01:08:35.520 operators, recruiters, maybe, I don't know, but how would they, how would they understand
01:08:39.520 what it is that you're actually going to be doing?
01:08:42.520 And they wouldn't.
01:08:43.520 I mean, no, they, they definitely wouldn't.
01:08:45.520 Um, I think for people joining now, they need to go to talk to like a SEAL motivator.
01:08:49.520 Um, who is actually a SEAL and will be able to explain just exactly how everything works.
01:08:54.520 Um, but I, I definitely think that there needs to be a huge focus and that's, that's also
01:08:59.520 going to be one thing that we're adding on to the foundation is just the focus on mental
01:09:04.520 health for guys, uh, when they're getting out.
01:09:06.520 Um, I think that's being dropped big time.
01:09:09.520 I think the VA is not doing its job, uh, helping guys out.
01:09:14.520 There's a lot of, there's a lot of, uh, foundations out there that are coming together now.
01:09:20.520 Yeah.
01:09:21.520 Yeah.
01:09:22.520 Yeah.
01:09:23.520 Yeah.
01:09:24.520 Yeah.
01:09:25.520 I don't think it's enough.
01:09:26.520 And I think it's only going to get worse here as we hit the 20 year anniversary of
01:09:31.520 next year.
01:09:32.520 Um, so you're going to see a lot of guys tiring that have been doing nothing to fighting a
01:09:38.520 war for two decades.
01:09:39.520 Yeah.
01:09:40.520 Yeah.
01:09:41.520 Good point.
01:09:42.520 It's going to, they're going to need some help when they get out.
01:09:44.520 Yeah.
01:09:45.520 Yeah.
01:09:46.520 Well, Eddie, it sounds like you're doing good work, man.
01:09:48.520 It sounds like you found your purpose and your mission outside of, you know, family,
01:09:51.520 of course, but outside of military service as well.
01:09:53.520 And in the pipe hitter foundation, um, let the guys know as we wind down how to connect
01:09:58.520 with you via that foundation and also how to pick up a copy of your book.
01:10:03.520 Cause I know a lot of men listening to this are going to be very, very interested in hearing
01:10:06.520 the in depth, uh, story from your perspective cause they haven't heard it before.
01:10:11.520 Yeah.
01:10:12.520 Um, sure.
01:10:13.520 Yeah.
01:10:14.520 So you can go, we're doing pre-orders right now.
01:10:15.520 Uh, so the book is currently being reviewed by DOD.
01:10:19.520 Um, and we, unfortunately we don't have any control of that process.
01:10:22.520 They've had it for about two and a half months.
01:10:24.520 Um, I'm being optimistic and saying I'm giving about another two months.
01:10:29.520 Yeah, that dude, you're an interest.
01:10:31.520 I didn't think about that on the, the DOD review.
01:10:33.520 You're, you're an interesting perspective cause it's not like you're talking about like
01:10:38.520 all of the good stuff that happens.
01:10:40.520 Yeah.
01:10:41.520 So that's interesting.
01:10:42.520 I had not considered that.
01:10:44.520 That might take a little longer than what I've seen in the past for some of these guys.
01:10:48.520 Yup.
01:10:49.520 So that's, I mean, we knew that right when we handed the DOD.
01:10:51.520 We were like, this could be a while.
01:10:53.520 Um, but I, I'm being, we, we have, we have a contact that's saying like it's the,
01:10:58.520 it's going along through the process.
01:10:59.520 Um, and, uh, so that you can do pre-order bundles right now.
01:11:04.520 So you go to Eddie Gallagher book.com and, uh, do a pre-order bundle.
01:11:08.520 With that, you will receive the book a month before it's actual release date.
01:11:12.520 And it's personally signed, uh, comes with challenge coins, some free Eddie, uh, stickers
01:11:18.520 and paraphernalia and, uh, no personalized note for myself and my wife.
01:11:22.520 Um, and then, uh, as far as the, uh, of the pipe air foundation, that's just, you know,
01:11:28.520 pipe air foundation.org.
01:11:30.520 Uh, just go look it up.
01:11:32.520 And if you are somebody that's needing some help, then there's an application on there.
01:11:37.520 Fill it out.
01:11:38.520 And we, like I said, we review them once or twice a month.
01:11:41.520 And there's also a, uh, portal to donate to the foundation as well.
01:11:45.520 Um, because I'm telling you that's a huge gap.
01:11:48.520 That's not being filled with trying to, uh, be that filled with work right now.
01:11:53.520 And, um, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it.
01:11:58.520 Um, you know, that's perfect, man.
01:12:02.520 We'll make sure we sync everything up.
01:12:04.520 So the guys know exactly where to go, man.
01:12:06.520 I just got to tell you, I really appreciate you.
01:12:07.520 I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while now.
01:12:10.520 And man, I just appreciate what you've done for this country.
01:12:13.520 And then ultimately some sacrifices that you and your family had to make that, uh,
01:12:18.520 from my perspective, from where I sit, didn't seem just.
01:12:21.520 And, and I appreciate you taking that and then turning it into a positive with your foundation
01:12:26.520 and putting the information out there, which I'm sure isn't easy.
01:12:30.520 And like you said, it's therapeutic maybe, but still conjures up some, some pain.
01:12:34.520 I imagine.
01:12:35.520 I just appreciate how you show up and how you lead your family and all the work that you've
01:12:39.520 done.
01:12:40.520 So thanks, Eddie.
01:12:41.520 Appreciate you, man.
01:12:42.520 I appreciate it, brother.
01:12:43.520 I appreciate you having me on.
01:12:44.520 It's an honor to be here.
01:12:45.520 I appreciate what you're doing.
01:12:46.520 And also for your service.
01:12:47.520 And, uh, just to add on, you know, like God put this in front of me and all this happened
01:12:53.520 for a reason.
01:12:54.520 Um, I try to be, you know, stay positive about it.
01:12:57.520 You know, when I was locked up, you know, me and my wife and I would talk, we're like,
01:13:02.520 you know, this is happening for a reason.
01:13:04.520 God put this on us for a reason.
01:13:05.520 And we're starting to see why, um, you know, it gave us as much of a nightmare as this was.
01:13:10.520 It gave us a platform to help others.
01:13:12.520 Well, that's what, that's what we're using it for.
01:13:14.520 Well, you're doing a lot of good work, man.
01:13:16.520 And I'm here to support you.
01:13:17.520 So if you need my help in any way, or something comes up, obviously I'm going to promote this,
01:13:21.520 but if something comes up, man, I'm, I'm here to support you.
01:13:23.520 So you just let me know.
01:13:24.520 I appreciate that, brother.
01:13:25.520 Thanks man.
01:13:26.520 Thank you.
01:13:27.520 Gentlemen, there you go.
01:13:28.520 My conversation with the one and only Eddie Gallagher.
01:13:31.520 I told you that was going to be a good one.
01:13:33.520 I, I, I knew that as I was talking with him, I was on the edge of my seat thinking about
01:13:38.520 if it were me going through this experience and how I would handle that.
01:13:41.520 And the guy is absolutely phenomenal.
01:13:43.520 Uh, he's got a very powerful life experience that, uh, well, I think serve him and his family
01:13:50.520 serve thousands of, of us who listened to his story and maybe live our lives a little bit
01:13:56.520 differently because we do.
01:13:57.520 So if you're interested in the full story, the things that we weren't able to get to on
01:14:01.520 the podcast, then pick up a copy of his book.
01:14:03.520 Uh, it's available for pre-order right now at eddiegallagherbook.com.
01:14:07.520 Uh, I would do the pre-order if I were you, and I would do it quick because I know the pre-orders,
01:14:12.520 uh, well, the package, the, uh, the special things that you get in the pre-order package will
01:14:17.520 go quickly.
01:14:18.520 Make sure you do that eddiegallagherbook.com eddiegallagherbook.com.
01:14:22.520 Also connect with him on the socials.
01:14:24.520 Uh, he's very active.
01:14:25.520 I believe on Instagram.
01:14:26.520 I think he's where he's most active connect with me.
01:14:28.520 Uh, let Eddie know, let me know what you thought about the podcast and then also share
01:14:32.520 it.
01:14:33.520 All right, please.
01:14:34.520 If you would share the podcast, uh, more people need to hear his story, his side
01:14:37.520 of the story.
01:14:38.520 Uh, if he finally has the platform and the opportunity to talk about it.
01:14:41.520 So, uh, please share this.
01:14:43.520 Just take a screenshot of, of you listening, post on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, wherever you're
01:14:47.520 doing the social media thing.
01:14:49.520 So that's it guys.
01:14:50.520 That's all we've got.
01:14:51.520 Remember the iron council battle brothers, uh, pick up a copy of, uh, the man in the arena,
01:14:55.520 go to origin, check out their boots for Christmas.
01:14:58.520 You got a lot to do.
01:14:59.520 We're going to be back tomorrow for my ask me anything with Mr. Kip Sorensen.
01:15:03.520 But until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
01:15:07.520 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
01:15:10.520 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
01:15:14.520 We invite you to join the order and order of man.com.
01:15:17.520 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.
01:15:21.520 You
01:15:23.520 Yeah.
01:15:27.520 Thank you.
01:15:32.520 You
01:15:34.520 You
01:15:35.520 You
01:15:39.520 Yeah.
01:15:40.520 Yeah.