Order of Man - The Pareto Principle, Overcoming Despair, and Why the Basics Always Win ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 I've seen a lot of people get wrapped up in the minutia.

00:00:03.900 You need to focus on the 80% issues.

00:00:09.240 It's the things that are going to produce 80% of the results.

00:00:13.280 And that's usually about 20% of the work.

00:00:16.700 This is called the Pareto principle.

00:00:18.360 20% of the work you're doing is going to produce 80%.

00:00:21.800 It's the same thing in fitness.

00:00:23.640 Get the 80% stuff done and then fill it in from there.

00:00:28.800 Jay, what's up, man?

00:00:29.900 It's good to have you back on the podcast.

00:00:31.520 You were here a couple of weeks ago, and here we are again doing a Ask Me Anything this time.

00:00:36.000 Yeah, it's great to be here.

00:00:36.960 Really appreciate you having me back.

00:00:39.240 Yeah, you feeling good?

00:00:41.040 You and your son started a podcast as well, so you feeling like you're a professional yet or what?

00:00:45.560 Semi-pro.

00:00:46.720 We're like semi-pro.

00:00:48.260 We're not quite in the big leagues yet.

00:00:49.920 We're maybe double-A ball.

00:00:53.040 After this, with the reach that we have, you're just going to hit the spotlight, and it's going to take off from there.

00:00:59.940 I love it.

00:01:00.600 I love it.

00:01:01.020 Well, I appreciate you having me here.

00:01:02.360 Big shoes to fill, and I don't mean Kip.

00:01:04.160 I mean Sean.

00:01:05.200 Sean Villalobos.

00:01:06.220 You usually have him.

00:01:07.020 That's right.

00:01:08.080 Yeah.

00:01:09.120 Yeah.

00:01:09.920 Well, I wanted to give you an opportunity.

00:01:11.500 I know you're doing some podcasting, and of course, we've been friends for a long time.

00:01:14.620 And the men that you work with inside of our group and inside of our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council, all really respect you and appreciate you.

00:01:23.780 I don't know why.

00:01:24.280 I'm trying to figure that out, but they do.

00:01:26.180 And so I figured, well, we might as well have the guy on the podcast to talk about some questions.

00:01:31.080 So let's just jump right into it today.

00:01:33.720 We've got, I think, quite a few or several from over inside the Iron Council, which is open right now for enrollment at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:01:43.220 And then I think we have some over on Facebook as well, and I'm sure we'll get to all of them or as many as we can today.

00:01:49.640 For sure.

00:01:50.660 Yeah, the first one comes from an Iron Council member, a new Iron Council member, Randy Norville.

00:01:55.140 He's actually somebody that I'm coaching.

00:01:58.080 Oh, nice.

00:01:59.060 Yeah.

00:01:59.720 After achieving a big goal, what is your process for finding the next big goal and resisting complacency?

00:02:05.420 For example, if you reach your desired position and salary at work, but you have 30 years left in your career, do you find another position salary?

00:02:13.220 That got cut off.

00:02:17.480 Do you find another position in salary as an objective?

00:02:22.840 Yeah, I mean, you can.

00:02:24.440 I think when I hear that, sometimes I feel like we might just be chasing after the next biggest and best thing.

00:02:30.700 And I've done that in my life where I've reached certain income goals and I get there.

00:02:35.680 I'm like, well, that's not enough.

00:02:36.620 Now I want 150.

00:02:37.940 Now I want 200.

00:02:38.760 Now I want 500.

00:02:39.600 Now I want a million.

00:02:40.320 And where does it stop?

00:02:41.280 You know, and I think that's why when we do our planning and if any man who's listening to this is missing this aspect of his plan, it's his vision.

00:02:49.760 So what is my process is to go back to my vision and ask myself how my objectives, in this case, making more money on an annual basis, going to fulfill my mission.

00:03:00.300 And it might, right?

00:03:02.240 Starting a business might.

00:03:04.180 Getting a raise.

00:03:05.380 Getting a promotion.

00:03:06.740 Paying off some debt.

00:03:07.780 There's a lot of financial objectives that one could have that will move them closer to what they want to accomplish.

00:03:13.120 For example, with me, one of my ideas when it comes to my vision is to be fully present and available for my kids, activities, sports, events, and outings and dances for my daughter.

00:03:26.820 And so I need money to do that.

00:03:28.640 And I need freedom and flexibility in my work.

00:03:31.340 And so I always evaluate what my objectives are based on what my vision is.

00:03:37.320 And my vision evolves over time as well.

00:03:40.120 What was important for me this year might be completely different next year based on both internal desires and external factors.

00:03:47.820 So the battle plan, and that's what we use.

00:03:50.180 I've got mine right here, and I use it every single day, is the tool.

00:03:54.400 And if you just extract one element and say, okay, well, now how do I choose a new quadrant or a new objective in each one of these quadrants?

00:04:02.040 You're missing the other components of the battle plan, which is the vision.

00:04:05.060 Then you have your objectives, then you have your tactics, and then you have your after-action review.

00:04:10.240 So I think this was Randy.

00:04:12.920 So what Randy needs to go do is say, all right, let's do an after-action review.

00:04:16.880 I hit my financial goals.

00:04:18.560 I hit my income goal.

00:04:20.600 What did I do well?

00:04:22.420 What did I not do so well?

00:04:24.260 What did I accomplish?

00:04:25.240 What didn't I accomplish?

00:04:26.360 And then go back to your vision and say, okay, based on this now,

00:04:30.220 how does having an extra 20% of income each year tie back into what I want,

00:04:36.460 whether it's spending more time with the kids or having a deeper connection with your wife

00:04:40.040 or paying down debt and not being hampered by credit card companies and creditors beating down your door.

00:04:47.900 That's how you do it.

00:04:49.060 You just have to look at what your vision is,

00:04:50.760 something greater that's always moving and propelling you forward

00:04:53.400 that you can measure your objectives against.

00:04:55.720 Yeah, and one of the things that we talk to the new guys about when they're creating their visions

00:05:01.040 in the Iron Council is that at some point, you're going to wake up,

00:05:04.720 and you're going to realize you've reached that vision.

00:05:06.840 And at that point, two things are going to happen.

00:05:08.860 One of two things is going to happen.

00:05:10.360 One might be, hey, I need to move the goalpost a little further

00:05:13.200 because I didn't realize what I was truly capable of.

00:05:16.420 Or two, it could be as simple, and I hate to use the word as maintenance,

00:05:20.060 but maintain where you're at, right?

00:05:23.900 So the example I think of there is in my law enforcement career,

00:05:28.100 I got promoted to the level of lieutenant.

00:05:30.000 And at that point in my career, would I have liked to have gone up to captain,

00:05:34.300 to deputy chief, to chief?

00:05:35.460 Sure.

00:05:35.900 But the timing, I knew what my plan was.

00:05:38.140 I knew what my vision held for retirement, and the timing just wasn't going to be there.

00:05:42.220 So that doesn't mean I rested on my laurels.

00:05:44.400 Now that the objective work-wise became be the best lieutenant I can be, right,

00:05:49.580 and serve the men and women who worked under me.

00:05:52.980 So it wasn't so much as, you know, keep moving forward or keep getting promoted.

00:05:58.560 It was now, how can I be a better?

00:06:00.860 The objective became, how can I be a better lieutenant?

00:06:02.700 How can I serve the men and women under me better?

00:06:06.560 Well, I think that's a good point because a lot of the times when we think about

00:06:09.720 what we want to accomplish in our lives,

00:06:11.640 we think about achieving an income goal, for example,

00:06:15.440 and then finding something that might be completely different than that goal itself.

00:06:21.100 And what I found a lot of the times, especially if what you're doing is working,

00:06:25.380 to be a better fill-in-the-blank.

00:06:28.320 So, for example, you might be on a really solid strength training program,

00:06:34.220 and it's working well, you're leaning out, but you're building muscle mass in the meantime,

00:06:39.620 and you're hitting some goals on your lifts, and you're feeling good about where you are,

00:06:44.060 or maybe you're not seeing the progress as quickly as you'd like,

00:06:48.060 or maybe you've plateaued.

00:06:49.640 And so what do guys do?

00:06:50.900 They immediately change course.

00:06:52.740 They're like, well, I guess I got to do something different.

00:06:54.900 And a lot of the times, men mistake action for prudence,

00:06:58.460 meaning if we're just moving and doing different things, we're being prudent.

00:07:01.880 Sometimes, yes, but just action in and of itself,

00:07:05.880 if it's misaligned or miscalculated, isn't prudence.

00:07:08.760 It's the antithesis of it.

00:07:10.200 So, you might say, instead of going on to a new program,

00:07:15.340 ask yourself, am I doing this thing to the nth degree?

00:07:18.760 What does my form look like?

00:07:21.360 What are my sets and reps looking like?

00:07:23.980 When I come to the gym, what is my mindset?

00:07:27.000 Have I fueled my body properly over the past 24 hours?

00:07:30.500 Am I hydrated?

00:07:32.120 And then maybe you want to come up with something that's in the same vein,

00:07:35.960 like I'm going to do a strength training competition,

00:07:38.960 or I'm going to do a bodybuilding show or whatever,

00:07:42.200 but it's in the same vein as what you're currently doing.

00:07:44.780 But yeah, don't mistake action for prudence.

00:07:48.400 Ask yourself in those moments if you're doing the best you could possibly do.

00:07:52.840 And I think that's what you're talking about, Jay, is,

00:07:55.140 okay, I hit lieutenant.

00:07:56.520 That's where I'm at.

00:07:57.340 I feel good about that.

00:07:58.260 And now I'm going to be the best lieutenant this department has ever seen before.

00:08:01.740 And then start articulating what that is and stepping into that more fully.

00:08:06.180 For sure.

00:08:07.200 Yeah.

00:08:09.540 All right.

00:08:10.120 Next question.

00:08:11.200 Ryder Myers.

00:08:12.480 I believe I'm saying that right.

00:08:13.600 I hope I'm saying that right.

00:08:15.280 Again, I believe he's another new member.

00:08:18.080 His question is,

00:08:20.240 how do I navigate separations that doesn't lead to divorce?

00:08:25.380 Or is it too late?

00:08:26.560 My wife and I have had a rough go over the past four years.

00:08:29.280 I've been consistent the past few weeks with finally being a better man and husband,

00:08:33.620 but I fear that I caught on too late, too little and too late.

00:08:39.080 Yeah.

00:08:39.680 And you know, the reality is you may have, and I know that's not the best thing to hear.

00:08:44.960 I certainly had that was as I was going through my divorce.

00:08:48.760 When my ex told me she wanted a divorce, we didn't finalize it until about six months after.

00:08:54.300 And I spent six months really trying to improve myself, really trying to be there and present for her and the kids.

00:09:00.820 And at that point it was, it was too little, too late.

00:09:04.560 So that is a reality.

00:09:05.900 And I don't want to say that.

00:09:07.680 I don't want to talk about that because those are things that we don't like to hear.

00:09:11.560 But I've got a really good friend.

00:09:13.060 His name is Keith Yacke.

00:09:14.280 And he runs a program called The Married Game. 0.52

00:09:16.480 And as I was going through the early stages of my divorce, I would talk with him and he would coach and mentor me and guide me.

00:09:22.940 And he said something pretty profound to me.

00:09:25.140 He said, Ryan, you only have one play left in your playbook at this point.

00:09:29.240 One play.

00:09:30.500 If you have any hope of winning her back, you have one play.

00:09:34.420 If it doesn't work, it's still the same play.

00:09:37.700 And there's something liberating about that, that you know whether or not you stay together or whatever happens, it's the one play.

00:09:44.600 And here it is.

00:09:45.760 You have to make yourself the project.

00:09:48.420 You have to become the best version of yourself.

00:09:51.540 And I'll get a little bit more granular with what I mean by that.

00:09:54.880 But I will tell you one other important factor.

00:09:59.960 You have to improve yourself for yourself.

00:10:04.620 You cannot be making these changes for her.

00:10:08.500 Because if you're making those changes for her, it's going to come across as manipulation.

00:10:14.600 And it is.

00:10:15.780 And she's going to sniff that out.

00:10:17.220 And she's going to assume, because I'm assuming that this has probably either been going on for a long period of time or has happened at another point in your life,

00:10:25.760 that she is going to assume that you're going to do just enough in all the right ways to win her back.

00:10:31.380 And then you're going to slip back into old patterns.

00:10:34.440 And so what men will do is they'll buy her gifts and they'll start doing the dishes and they'll behave and they'll do all the projects around the house and they'll be more present and they'll make sacrifices at work to be there at family. 0.81

00:10:47.200 These are all things that I did.

00:10:48.440 Some of those things I did for the right reasons because that's what a good man should do.

00:10:53.400 And others I did because I wanted her to see that I was changing.

00:10:57.720 But it doesn't work.

00:10:59.100 People don't respond like that.

00:11:00.780 They respond to the proper motives.

00:11:03.920 So, again, I'm coming back to the battle plan.

00:11:06.700 And I know that we use that framework a lot.

00:11:09.220 And we use it because it's a framework that is proven to work.

00:11:11.720 So, when I say make yourself the project, the first thing I'm saying is get right mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.

00:11:20.000 Get to church if you're a believer.

00:11:24.420 Read the scriptures.

00:11:25.880 Pray and shore up that aspect of your life.

00:11:28.820 Ask for guidance.

00:11:30.220 Ask for direction.

00:11:31.160 Ask for forgiveness.

00:11:32.180 Do all of that.

00:11:34.420 Align yourself to a vision.

00:11:35.860 Have a vision of what you want your life to look like.

00:11:38.100 How you're going to show up.

00:11:39.020 Why it's important that you as a man and a father and a husband show up in this particular way.

00:11:44.120 Whatever that vision is, is going to help guide and direct you as you move forward.

00:11:47.700 So, we call that calibration.

00:11:49.740 Getting right mentally and spiritually and emotionally.

00:11:52.920 Next is you need to start working on your connections.

00:11:56.740 So, it's not too late now.

00:11:59.580 It's a separation potentially.

00:12:01.420 But it's not necessarily too late.

00:12:03.480 You need to work on the connections that you not only have with her.

00:12:06.780 But you also need to work on the connections you have with your kids.

00:12:10.340 And you need to work on the connections that you have with your friends.

00:12:14.080 And your band of brothers.

00:12:15.540 And your colleagues.

00:12:16.560 And your co-workers.

00:12:17.340 And maybe even making new friends.

00:12:19.460 Because if this continues the way it goes.

00:12:22.300 Or the way it is going.

00:12:23.720 Then you're going to need to have a good tight-knit band of brothers around you.

00:12:27.320 To get you through the challenging times.

00:12:29.340 And there will be challenging times.

00:12:30.580 But don't get yourself lost in her.

00:12:34.420 And trying to fix the relationship in this moment.

00:12:36.760 Sure.

00:12:37.020 Be there.

00:12:37.420 Support her.

00:12:38.400 Lead her.

00:12:38.820 Do what you can.

00:12:39.860 But also build other connections outwards.

00:12:42.400 Number three is what we call your condition.

00:12:45.440 That's your physical health.

00:12:47.220 So, right now you should be fueling your body correctly.

00:12:50.860 You should be hitting the gym every single day.

00:12:53.880 Not only is it going to be good for your soul and your mindset.

00:12:56.240 Which goes back to calibration.

00:12:57.900 You're going to start looking and feeling better about yourself.

00:13:01.020 And how you're showing up.

00:13:02.220 And you're going to need that energy as you go through this process.

00:13:05.640 And then the last is contribution.

00:13:07.960 And contribution is becoming a man of value.

00:13:10.660 Sometimes we're rewarded for the contributions that we provide.

00:13:15.360 In the form of getting paid at work, for example.

00:13:18.500 And sometimes you're not monetarily rewarded.

00:13:21.280 Maybe you're doing service work.

00:13:23.240 Or volunteer work.

00:13:24.680 And giving back to the community.

00:13:25.880 Maybe you're coaching a youth sports team.

00:13:28.180 These are all ways to contribute.

00:13:29.800 But ultimately, making yourself more valuable.

00:13:33.220 So, maybe there's a new designation that you can pick up for work.

00:13:38.480 Maybe there's a new course that you need to learn.

00:13:40.760 And develop a skill set that's going to help you get paid.

00:13:45.420 But whatever you can do to make yourself the project in those four realms.

00:13:50.280 Regardless of if she responds or not.

00:13:52.260 And that's the key.

00:13:53.760 Because if you only do it if she responds the way that you quote unquote want her to.

00:13:57.700 Or she's supposed to.

00:13:59.200 You are probably going to be disappointed.

00:14:01.820 And she's going to sniff that out.

00:14:03.280 She knows you're doing it to manipulate her.

00:14:05.480 And you are.

00:14:06.740 And it's going to fall flat.

00:14:08.580 So, figure out what kind of man you want to be.

00:14:11.600 Because that's the man you want to be.

00:14:13.560 Whether or not you win her back or not.

00:14:15.740 That's the kind of guy you want to be.

00:14:17.480 And look, I feel for you.

00:14:18.400 I've been there.

00:14:20.120 And, you know, Jay, everybody has had challenges in our relationships.

00:14:24.000 Whether it's led to divorce or not.

00:14:26.020 We've all had those challenges.

00:14:27.680 So, I definitely feel where you're at.

00:14:30.500 It's dark.

00:14:32.320 It's devastating.

00:14:33.840 But working on yourself, making yourself a project, and focusing on those four realms is the only play you have left.

00:14:40.160 And doing it for the right reason.

00:14:42.620 Yeah.

00:14:43.020 And, I mean, in the end, that's the only thing you truly control, right?

00:14:45.340 Is yourself and how you respond to things.

00:14:48.980 And I think about, as you're talking, you know, like you said, every marriage has its difficulties.

00:14:54.680 And for me personally, with my anger issues that I had in the past, I eroded a lot of trust.

00:15:02.120 And that trust is going to take time to build back up.

00:15:05.060 But your point of anybody can be good for six months, right?

00:15:09.320 Anybody can be good for a year, right?

00:15:12.100 Let's see, it takes time to build that trust up.

00:15:14.760 And hopefully, Ryder has that time.

00:15:16.980 But like you said, he might not.

00:15:18.560 But the bottom line is, it's on us to build that trust back up when we're the ones that eroded.

00:15:24.380 And it's our responsibility to take care of ourselves.

00:15:29.600 And then, you know, if we're doing it for somebody else and you hit on this, it's never going to last.

00:15:34.400 It's never going to last.

00:15:35.300 And the other problem with that is you're going to build up resentment, right?

00:15:38.240 If you don't truly believe you're doing it for the right reasons or for yourself, certain things that you're doing, you're going to build resentment.

00:15:45.720 And that's not going to help the marriage.

00:15:47.640 So, you know, control what you can control and take care of yourself so that whether it's your wife, a future relationship, your kids, you can take care of them.

00:15:57.980 I mean, that's the reality is that whether the marriage works out, and I hope it does.

00:16:03.620 I'm praying, literally praying that it does because I know you.

00:16:07.100 So I'm praying for you that it will.

00:16:09.680 But whether or not it does or doesn't is not entirely within your control.

00:16:16.180 And by doing it this way, you're either going to be the best husband for your wife or you're going to be the best man for the next woman who does, at some point, come into your life.

00:16:27.340 And that will happen if that's the route that you two decide to go.

00:16:31.080 But I'm telling you, just the biggest thing here, guys, anybody who's going through a divorce, and I've done this the wrong way and the right way in my divorce.

00:16:39.300 Sometimes I nail it, and other times I really miss the mark. 0.95

00:16:43.020 Don't be a little lapdog, all right?

00:16:45.000 Don't do things to get her attention or to get her validation or her acknowledgement or accolades or pats on the head and the good boy and the attaboys. 0.95

00:16:55.220 It's nauseating.

00:16:57.340 I mean, it really – you're stepping down from the mantle that you should have stepped up on to begin with, and it's repulsive to her.

00:17:07.520 She's not going to be attracted to that if she feels like she has to babysit your emotions and she has to perform just the right way 0.95

00:17:13.820 because you're doing these things that you should have been doing all along.

00:17:17.020 And I'm only saying that because I know it from experience.

00:17:19.440 So do the right thing for the right reasons.

00:17:21.280 Don't worry about the acknowledgement and the accolades.

00:17:23.180 Just be the man that you can be.

00:17:25.240 That's all you can do right now.

00:17:27.320 And, of course, connect with us inside the Iron Council and be part of the movement there because that's going to help too.

00:17:33.480 For sure, yeah.

00:17:34.140 And I think you hit on this is do these things without any expectation.

00:17:40.000 Do them because they're the right thing to do.

00:17:41.860 And when you have the expectation or have no expectation, it's just more genuine, right?

00:17:47.380 You're doing it for the right reasons, and she'll recognize that.

00:17:52.440 Yeah, exactly.

00:17:53.560 Exactly.

00:17:54.680 Cool.

00:17:55.080 What's next?

00:17:56.340 Next one comes from Jeremy Coffey.

00:17:58.080 As Iron Council OGs, what do you think separates the men who thrive long term?

00:18:04.640 Well, you're the original OG.

00:18:07.380 I've been here for a while.

00:18:08.760 But you are the OG.

00:18:10.460 You are the OG.

00:18:11.680 I am the OG.

00:18:12.860 Right.

00:18:13.200 The OG.

00:18:13.940 Exactly.

00:18:14.460 Yep.

00:18:14.940 What do you think separates the men who thrive long term in the Iron Council program from those who joined for a few months and fade away?

00:18:22.540 You know, the interesting thing about systems is that as long as it's the right system, it works.

00:18:31.800 But it's usually really, really boring and monotonous.

00:18:34.860 And what I found is that too many men are out there looking for something that's incredible, that's sexy, the three steps to six pack abs.

00:18:45.380 And, you know, and we're even looking to characters online who attempt to represent the ideals that we want to live up to.

00:18:53.800 But it's usually, I say characters because they're usually inflated egos.

00:18:58.960 They're these so-called larger than life figures.

00:19:03.080 Their personalities are exaggerated to get your attention.

00:19:06.300 And so we are not at a loss for information and resources out there.

00:19:13.380 But what we are at a loss of is focus and grit and consistency in the mundane things.

00:19:22.340 So if we were to go back to fitness, getting strong and healthy is a pretty simple thing to do.

00:19:30.620 Eat the right foods, feel your body correctly, get a good workout program.

00:19:35.960 We know that doing strength training is going to be the best for your body unless you have other goals and ambitions.

00:19:42.500 But generally speaking, heavy strength training is what's going to be best for men.

00:19:47.240 We know that.

00:19:47.820 There's not really too much of a question about it anymore.

00:19:50.340 Now there's a lot of different nuance to it, but we know what it is.

00:19:54.800 Anybody can go into the gym for a week.

00:19:57.040 Anybody can eat clean for a day or two.

00:19:59.800 Can you do it for 365 days?

00:20:02.500 Can you do it for five years?

00:20:03.940 Can you do it for 10 years?

00:20:05.680 If you can tie mundane, simple actions to a predictable outcome that motivates you,

00:20:16.020 that inspires you and compels you, it will keep you in the game as long as you need to be in the game to achieve your desires.

00:20:22.840 A prime example of that is what we're doing here with Order of Man.

00:20:26.400 I started this in 2015.

00:20:28.700 I have not missed a single episode of this podcast every day that I dedicated myself over 10 years ago to dropping.

00:20:37.080 And at this point, it's three podcasts a week.

00:20:39.940 Now, when I was going through my divorce, there were a couple, I think two or three episodes that I did a replay of in order to, you know, feel that because I was dealing with my own personal stuff.

00:20:50.900 But we haven't missed a day.

00:20:53.380 And that's what it takes.

00:20:55.120 I don't have the luxury of missing days.

00:20:58.020 I don't have the money to miss days.

00:21:00.920 I don't have the connections.

00:21:02.240 I don't have the skill set to be able to take it easy.

00:21:07.600 And I'm okay with that because I know that if it's podcasting or lifting weights or training jujitsu or name it,

00:21:17.060 that your ability to stay in the game as long as you possibly can will overcome somebody else's skill set,

00:21:24.700 their natural God-given talents and abilities.

00:21:27.360 I just saw a quote from Alex Hermozzi.

00:21:30.100 He said something along the lines of business not really being a matter of who can do it best, but who can stay in the game the longest.

00:21:38.980 Because the longer you can stay in, as long as you're deliberate about it, the better you're going to get.

00:21:44.720 So I'm not telling you, oh, if you just show up, everything will come true.

00:21:48.060 No, you have to show up with intent.

00:21:50.740 You have to show up deliberately.

00:21:52.100 And about 80 plus percent of the time, you have to be on point when you show up.

00:21:56.300 Now, there's going to be days where you show up and you just go through the motions.

00:21:59.320 And I'm not going to tell you that's the best way to do it, but it's better than not.

00:22:04.400 And there will be the days that you're tired or distracted or focused on another priority because it's important at that moment in time.

00:22:13.640 But just show up consistently, relentlessly, and find ways not to get bored.

00:22:20.380 That's, I think, what a lot of guys come into the Iron Council.

00:22:23.140 Either A, they don't get started because it's different.

00:22:27.000 It's hard.

00:22:27.600 It's uncomfortable.

00:22:28.620 Or B, they do it for a little while.

00:22:31.700 Here's a funny one.

00:22:32.520 They do it for a little while.

00:22:33.540 They see the results and then they leave the Iron Council because they get what they want and they leave, which I understand, but then they start slipping and things start falling through the cracks and the relationships start to break down a little bit and the business fractures a little bit.

00:22:52.600 And they're like, what changed?

00:22:54.020 Oh, light bulb moment.

00:22:55.240 I got to get back into the Iron Council because it's the things that you do consistently that help you win.

00:23:00.600 Right, and we see that a lot, right, guys, returning members, and that's the story.

00:23:05.320 And you've said it twice, at least twice in that, is consistency.

00:23:09.140 So consistency is the key, right?

00:23:10.900 When the guys who fade away aren't doing the work for one reason or another, right, they don't get started.

00:23:17.600 I think some people don't realize how much work it takes and they want that quick pill.

00:23:22.800 And I think that some people, like you said, do the work.

00:23:28.340 They think they have it all figured out and then they leave.

00:23:31.700 I think back to the first main event.

00:23:34.820 I can't remember his last name, but his first name was Josh and he was a longtime member.

00:23:40.700 But he had left before I joined, but he had left and he told the story at the main event that, you know, same kind of deal.

00:23:47.540 Thought he had it all figured out.

00:23:48.840 And about three, six months, I forget exactly the time, his wife came to him and said, hey, something's different about you.

00:23:55.120 What's going on?

00:23:55.760 And he hadn't told his wife that he left the Iron Council.

00:23:58.600 And he said to his wife, yeah, and he said to his wife, well, I left the Iron Council.

00:24:02.040 And she's like, sign back up today, right?

00:24:04.660 And then he signed back up, right?

00:24:06.860 So listen, our significant others see it, right?

00:24:09.300 And it's about doing the work when we, I think when we don't do the work, whether it's we're not willing to or we don't have a clear enough and compelling vision, right?

00:24:18.460 That's one of the things that I talk about to the new guys is you have to make your vision so clear and compelling.

00:24:24.680 And that on those days where you don't feel like showing up, you can visit that vision and it'll motivate you to do the work.

00:24:33.720 Yeah, I agree.

00:24:34.780 You know, and let's break this down just a little bit more because it is easy to say, oh, just be consistent.

00:24:40.780 And everybody knows that.

00:24:42.340 But that begs the question, what does it take to be consistent?

00:24:45.860 Because there's all, there's days that all of us aren't interested in showing up.

00:24:49.980 So what keeps a person in it versus another person who will drop out?

00:24:56.420 And I've got four things here and I'm sure there's a lot more, but these four have seemed to help me.

00:25:00.220 So number one, to go back to what you just said, is having a vision, having a why, having real clarity about why you're doing what you're doing and then tying it to the results that you're seeing.

00:25:10.280 So with this gentleman that you're talking about, why is he in the Iron Council?

00:25:15.400 Maybe it is to improve his relationship.

00:25:17.060 Maybe it is to improve his attitude or the way that he shows up or to draw closer to God or to get fit or overcome a divorce like we're talking about.

00:25:26.560 That's good.

00:25:27.360 You should know that.

00:25:28.700 You should know why you're doing the things that you're doing.

00:25:31.460 I've seen so many guys, and I've done this as well, where we'll follow people on social media and then we start doing all the things they're doing because, I don't know, isn't that what you're supposed to do?

00:25:42.180 Maybe, but maybe not.

00:25:43.900 Is what Joe Rogan doing the things that you're supposed to be doing?

00:25:48.000 Is what Cam Haynes doing the things that you're supposed to be doing?

00:25:51.440 Is what Matthew McConaughey or Chris Williamson or Jocko Willink?

00:25:55.340 Now, all these guys, I'm not throwing them under the bus.

00:25:57.760 They're all massively successful, and they found their thing, but their thing might not be your thing.

00:26:04.000 So be careful of falling into that trap where you have to do all the things the other people do.

00:26:08.360 Only do it if it ties into what you're doing because that's what's going to keep you in it.

00:26:12.200 So that's number one.

00:26:13.340 Number two, I think you have to have reasonable and realistic expectations of what it takes to achieve.

00:26:18.820 I talk with so many men who expect the result with way less effort than required and way faster than they'll experience.

00:26:32.320 And if you set yourself up like that, you are setting yourself up.

00:26:36.660 Because if you don't achieve your goals in that shortened time frame, then you're going to think you're doing it wrong, and you're going to throw in the towel.

00:26:45.880 And this is where coaching and mentorship comes into play because a coach and a mentor is going to tell you exactly what it's going to take because they've already done it.

00:26:54.600 They're going to tell you how much effort you need to put in.

00:26:56.960 They're going to tell you how long it's going to take.

00:26:59.040 They're going to tell you what you need to do and how dedicated you need to be towards the thing.

00:27:02.820 And they're going to set realistic expectations so you're not playing mind games with yourself.

00:27:07.460 Because look, if I thought I was going to do a thing in three months, but actually it's going to take me nine months,

00:27:13.000 at the three-month mark, if that's really what I thought and I'm not there yet, I'm much more likely to throw in the towel.

00:27:19.980 So I have reasonable and realistic expectations.

00:27:22.960 Next is calendaring.

00:27:25.380 You have to live and die by the calendar.

00:27:27.240 You have to.

00:27:29.400 We're too busy to wing it.

00:27:31.680 So I use Google calendars.

00:27:33.680 It's nothing special.

00:27:34.880 It's nothing fancy.

00:27:35.800 There's no course I have on how to manage my schedule.

00:27:38.380 I just create different calendars.

00:27:40.300 I can go through right here and tell you what they are.

00:27:42.900 I have my personal calendar.

00:27:45.480 I have my work calendar.

00:27:47.540 I have my kids' sports calendar.

00:27:50.220 I have a calendar for when the kids are with me because sometimes that gets changed.

00:27:54.360 I have a podcast interview calendar.

00:27:56.320 And then I have a calendar for my girlfriend and I so we can coordinate schedules and figure

00:28:01.440 out what we're doing and be on the same page.

00:28:03.960 And they all display on one calendar.

00:28:05.880 I can see they're different colors and it's all right there.

00:28:08.360 And then that way I can plug in different activities that now become non-negotiables.

00:28:13.460 So if you're in the Iron Council, it might be your team meeting or a Friday call.

00:28:18.120 If it's working out, maybe working out at 5.30 or 6 a.m. works out for you or maybe it's

00:28:23.280 5.30, 6 p.m. at night.

00:28:25.220 But whatever it is, you're living and dying by the calendar.

00:28:27.880 And the last thing that I'll say is you just have to etch this phrase into your psyche,

00:28:34.320 into your DNA.

00:28:35.220 And that is do it anyway.

00:28:39.180 Because there will be days where you don't want to do it.

00:28:42.380 There will be days where you have every excuse not to.

00:28:45.380 There will be days where you don't feel motivated or excited or compelled or you're distracted

00:28:51.320 with something else that might even be a priority.

00:28:54.140 And the mindset of do it anyways is what's going to get you to that hurdle.

00:28:57.880 And I found that when I show up and I do it anyways, it usually doesn't take long to get

00:29:03.860 into the routine of things and get back on track and pace.

00:29:06.580 But if I stop, it's way harder to pick up momentum.

00:29:09.480 This is a physics lesson.

00:29:11.640 An object in motion stays in motion.

00:29:13.600 An object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an equal and greater force.

00:29:18.000 So if you stop, it's going to take you a lot more effort and energy to start back up.

00:29:22.580 That's just basic physics.

00:29:24.560 Yeah.

00:29:24.960 Our mutual friend, Zach Edmash, always talks about that when it comes to the gym on the

00:29:28.920 days you don't feel like it.

00:29:29.880 Just go out and get five minutes in.

00:29:31.620 Five minutes is always going to turn into a full workout, right?

00:29:33.780 It's never, you know, because once you get going, you're going to feel motivated.

00:29:37.080 And so totally agree with that.

00:29:39.620 And then, you know, love the calendars.

00:29:41.400 I'm not as high tech as you.

00:29:42.540 I still have.

00:29:44.120 I have a corkboard right in front of me here with a paper calendar where I write everything

00:29:48.460 in and I use this planner to plan my day out, to time block my day.

00:29:53.860 So I'm not as high tech as you, but, but I think, yeah, having, having some system to

00:29:58.440 manage your time is, is huge.

00:30:00.120 And, and, uh, talk about managing your expectations too.

00:30:03.140 And I think that's huge.

00:30:03.960 I think we all, we see this with new guys with their vision, uh, that, or not so much

00:30:09.420 their vision because we want them to go, you know, think big for their visions, but with

00:30:13.260 their battle plans, when they, when they choose an objective and a tactic one, they have

00:30:16.920 like, you know, before, before we really let them know, Hey, we want one daily tactic.

00:30:21.260 That's going to move the needle, move the needle the most.

00:30:23.600 What's the one thing, you know, guys will come in with their first draft of their battle

00:30:26.980 plan, new guys, and they'll have seven, eight tactics and at each quadrant, it's like, Hey,

00:30:32.040 can you really get that much done in one day?

00:30:34.080 You're setting yourself up for failure, right?

00:30:36.220 Let's pick that one thing, right?

00:30:37.800 Let's pick that one thing that we know is going to move the needle the most.

00:30:40.840 And, and when we set those expectations and, and we're, we push ourselves, but we're realistic.

00:30:46.240 And then, you know, uh, we talk about this a lot in the, in the iron council, celebrate

00:30:49.900 the small wins along the way that builds the momentum and, and that consistency that we

00:30:54.340 talked about.

00:30:57.620 Yeah.

00:30:58.160 I mean, I, I like what you're saying about the tactics because we, we are, you know,

00:31:01.740 anybody listening to this podcast or anybody who comes in the iron council is likely a

00:31:07.420 hard charger.

00:31:07.980 They're, they're, they're here for a reason.

00:31:09.660 They're listening to this self-development podcast because they want to improve themselves.

00:31:14.500 And sometimes we think if we do one activity, it'll take us a month, but if we do it twice

00:31:18.580 as much or twice as hard, then we get it done in two weeks.

00:31:22.020 That's not how it works.

00:31:23.400 It's still going to take you the same amount of time, but more often than not, you're going

00:31:27.120 to burn yourself out and burn yourself up.

00:31:29.200 You know, when it comes to diet, for example, if you're 50 pounds overweight and you say, well,

00:31:33.820 I'm going to drink a hundred ounces of water.

00:31:35.460 I'm going to do meal planning.

00:31:36.740 I'm not going to eat any processed foods.

00:31:39.060 I'm going to get my portions just right.

00:31:40.960 I think there's very few people who can change their patterns that drastically in such a short

00:31:46.500 period of time and have it be sustainable.

00:31:49.680 You could do it.

00:31:50.960 It's possible.

00:31:52.140 But what I would say is, all right, let's pick the lowest hanging fruit.

00:31:56.260 You know, for, for most people, it's going to be processed sugars and overeating.

00:32:00.600 And so pick one of those things for the next 90 days and let's see if you can do that.

00:32:07.840 Let's see if you can just do that.

00:32:10.040 And that, that proves to be difficult for people too.

00:32:12.440 And if you can do that, then cool.

00:32:13.880 We locked it in as a habit.

00:32:15.340 Now let's add something else to it.

00:32:17.200 So maybe you cut out processed sugars, uh, for 90 days and then maybe next quarter it's,

00:32:23.600 Hey, I'm going to increase my water intake to improve my hydration.

00:32:26.980 And then third quarter is I'm going to start moving into meal prep.

00:32:31.300 And then fourth quarter, I'm going to do my first bodybuilding competition.

00:32:35.680 So we have a theme that we're working on for, for the year, but we're looking at it from,

00:32:42.000 from a 90 day perspective, 90 days at a time.

00:32:45.120 Yeah.

00:32:45.500 We did that when I owned the gym, uh, we would have bootcamps and it was the same kind of

00:32:49.360 thing.

00:32:49.520 People would come in and most of the people for the bootcamps were coming off the couch.

00:32:52.440 They hadn't done anything fitness wise, maybe ever in their lives or, or in a long time.

00:32:56.540 And when you, when you talk to them, you know, one of the first things we do is talk to them

00:32:59.360 about their goals.

00:33:00.020 And it was the same, like you, you explained, Oh, I'm going to start eating better.

00:33:03.200 I'm going to start working out.

00:33:04.240 I'm going to start.

00:33:04.700 And it was like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.

00:33:05.820 Like you're here for the bootcamp.

00:33:07.420 So that's, that's, you've already made that commitment.

00:33:10.000 Right.

00:33:10.440 So now let's just pick, just like you said, one thing we all know one thing in our, our

00:33:16.280 diet that we shouldn't be eating.

00:33:17.900 Right.

00:33:18.360 Can we cut that out?

00:33:19.680 Um, you know, and, and then like you described bill from there.

00:33:23.600 So yeah, that's, that's a very effective strategy.

00:33:26.780 And again, it builds that consistency and, and that momentum.

00:33:32.200 Yeah.

00:33:32.560 Yeah.

00:33:32.600 There's, and then the other thing I would say is making sure that you're celebrating

00:33:35.360 your wins.

00:33:35.920 Our friend, Alan Placer talks about this quite often.

00:33:38.680 Um, it's also mentioned in the book, the gap in the game, which is a really good book

00:33:42.220 is that it's okay to acknowledge and celebrate your wins.

00:33:45.380 I'm not saying you need to throw a party for yourself every time you do the most minuscule

00:33:49.640 thing, but you should, you should celebrate that.

00:33:53.140 You know, if you sign up for a bootcamp and, and you go for the first week and you hit every

00:33:57.680 day for the first week, that's, that's worth celebrating.

00:34:00.500 That's worth acknowledging.

00:34:01.900 You know, you don't need to throw yourself a big surprise bash and get everybody out to

00:34:05.700 celebrate and honor you because you went into the gym for five days, but you should acknowledge

00:34:09.560 that you did good.

00:34:10.700 And you're a better man today than you were a week ago because you went in the gym every

00:34:14.520 day this week.

00:34:15.380 So celebrate those wins along the way.

00:34:18.360 Jay, I've got some questions over here.

00:34:20.240 Oh, go ahead.

00:34:21.160 I was just gonna say, I struggled with that a little bit when Alan first started talking

00:34:24.040 about it.

00:34:24.320 I had a hard time wrapping my head around it, but, but I've embraced it since.

00:34:27.600 And it is powerful.

00:34:29.480 Yeah.

00:34:30.140 And that's not to say it should come at the expense of you thinking about what's next.

00:34:34.020 You can do both.

00:34:34.720 Right.

00:34:34.900 And you should do both.

00:34:36.120 For sure.

00:34:36.500 Well, I think that's it for Iron Council.

00:34:38.760 Should we move over to Facebook?

00:34:40.600 Yeah, let's do it.

00:34:42.360 Okay.

00:34:42.780 So this one comes from Dwayne St. Germain, which is a great name.

00:34:46.380 Dwayne St. Germain.

00:34:47.980 Good name.

00:34:48.920 Yeah.

00:34:49.200 It says, in the vein of self-improvement, is there a better way you have found to cut

00:34:53.920 through all the false health diet information?

00:34:57.260 There is a lot of contradicting information out there and can waste your time and leave you

00:35:02.820 feeling defeated and abort the mission altogether.

00:35:06.500 So I think this is a good question.

00:35:08.580 And I want to say I'm not the, the, the pinnacle of health.

00:35:11.540 Okay.

00:35:11.840 And I, and I'm, this is not my expertise, but I have a few ideas and thoughts on this.

00:35:16.800 Um, I've seen a lot of people get wrapped up in the minutia, in the bull crap, in the,

00:35:23.240 the small little things that are going to produce the, the most infinitesimally small result

00:35:29.920 if you do it right.

00:35:31.020 And to me, more often than not for people, you need to focus on the 80% issues.

00:35:40.720 It's the things that are going to produce 80% of the results.

00:35:44.480 And that's usually about 20% of the work.

00:35:48.100 This is called the Pareto principle.

00:35:49.600 20% of the work you're doing is going to produce 80% or set another way.

00:35:54.920 Um, 20% of the people in an organization are going to produce 80% of the results.

00:36:02.060 It's such a principle that it applies broadly.

00:36:04.300 So when it comes to dieting health information, what I think would be good for most people

00:36:11.600 is to look at what's a theme amongst all the people that you follow.

00:36:17.600 And you're going to find those themes.

00:36:19.420 And so one theme might be portion size.

00:36:23.080 Another theme might be water intake.

00:36:26.840 Uh, another theme might be, uh, how much protein you should eat, right?

00:36:32.940 We all hear about one, one gram of protein per desired, uh, body weight.

00:36:38.640 So 200 grams of protein.

00:36:40.480 If you want to weigh 200 pounds, if that's your ideal weight, um, eat vegetable, eat fruit.

00:36:45.960 Like we know these are the 80% issues.

00:36:49.560 There's no real guesswork about this.

00:36:52.540 So that's what you should focus on.

00:36:54.480 And unless you're getting 90 to a hundred percent of that, right?

00:36:59.100 I don't really feel like you should really worry too much about other fringe ideas that

00:37:04.220 are being tested or that these biohackers do.

00:37:07.680 Now there are some people, my girlfriend actually happens to be one of them who loves this stuff.

00:37:12.120 Like this is her world.

00:37:13.440 She gets excited about diving into different peptides and, um, you know, different, different

00:37:21.520 food that is a little non-conventional that creates different results and, and your body.

00:37:26.720 And so for her and other people like that, that's exciting to her.

00:37:31.120 But for most people, if it's not exciting to you, then just focus on the 80% result stuff

00:37:37.740 and don't really worry about too much else until you're dialing that in at a hundred percent.

00:37:43.900 It's the same thing in fitness.

00:37:46.020 Do deadlifts, uh, maybe squats, uh, bench press, pull-ups, and maybe some overhead press.

00:37:55.440 That's your five or six movements that should consist of about 80% of your workout.

00:38:01.040 And then you can throw in leg curls, leg extension, bicep curls, reverse bicep curls, shoulder

00:38:07.420 shrugs, all this other, you know, flies in incline bench, decline bench, dumbbell bench,

00:38:13.580 get the 80% stuff done and then fill it in from there.

00:38:17.540 Yeah.

00:38:18.080 I mean, I don't have much to add to that other than say the basics will win almost every

00:38:21.680 time.

00:38:22.220 Right.

00:38:22.660 And I think intuitively when it comes to diet, we all know what the basics are.

00:38:26.900 Um, and then until you're, you're taking those steps, there's really no need to explore

00:38:31.040 these in-depth, um, detailed nutrition plans or diets.

00:38:36.120 It's, it's get the basics down.

00:38:38.020 And for the most part, you know, if you get the basics down, you're probably to reach your

00:38:41.380 goals.

00:38:41.660 I think that one thing that happens is when you start to get too deep into this is you

00:38:48.360 begin to get paralyzed, right?

00:38:50.640 It's the paralysis by analysis syndrome.

00:38:53.620 And I don't, I think a lot of the times we do it, I'm not sure how conscious it is that

00:38:59.020 we do it for this reason.

00:39:00.500 But I think a lot of the times what happens is that we can justify ourselves or to ourselves

00:39:05.700 that we're moving the needle because we're doing stuff.

00:39:10.600 And again, I already said, never mistake action for prudence.

00:39:14.720 So researching about the thing is not doing the thing.

00:39:18.680 Planning to do the thing is not doing the thing.

00:39:21.460 Thinking about thinking about doing the thing is not doing the thing.

00:39:24.980 Talking with your friends about all the stuff you're going to do is not doing the thing.

00:39:29.780 Doing the thing is doing the thing.

00:39:31.740 And everybody, everything else becomes, could potentially become a distraction.

00:39:36.480 So, and I think my hypothesis is that people do it deliberately.

00:39:45.240 And I don't know if they do it consciously or subconsciously or to what degree, but if it's

00:39:52.920 complicated, then you have an excuse, right?

00:39:56.580 So if you're overweight and it's complicated and it's like, well, I don't, there's nothing

00:40:01.880 I can do.

00:40:02.460 You have to have an engineering degree to be able to lose weight.

00:40:07.020 So don't get distracted and bogged down with the nonsense and don't allow yourself to become

00:40:12.920 paralyzed because you're worried about some minute detail that really doesn't matter in

00:40:17.080 the grand scheme of things.

00:40:18.460 Because I do think that's the case a lot of times.

00:40:21.180 I've been guilty of, not the overcomplicating, so I have an excuse.

00:40:24.320 I've been guilty of fooling myself that I'm doing the work, right?

00:40:26.900 I think of reading books and I'm an avid reader and I read a lot of self-development books.

00:40:32.640 And for years, any self-development book I saw, I'd have to grab it and read it.

00:40:37.620 And really, I was just fooling myself into doing the work.

00:40:40.060 And now in the last couple of years, I boil it down to, there's a small handful of books

00:40:43.900 that I'm going to reread every year because they're the ones that have been the most powerful

00:40:48.000 in making changes in my life and putting stuff into action, right?

00:40:54.340 Because I have books that I read that I never took action on or couldn't remember, couldn't

00:40:58.400 tell you a thing about them that I learned from them.

00:41:00.320 But, you know, I was guilty of fooling myself that I was doing the work.

00:41:04.540 Yeah.

00:41:05.020 I mean, there's, I used to do this where the amount of books you read was a badge of honor,

00:41:11.260 right?

00:41:11.900 So if I read a hundred books this year, I'm better than the guy who read 50 books.

00:41:15.840 And he's better than the guy who read 10 books.

00:41:18.240 And he's better than the guy that just read one book.

00:41:20.520 But what if the guy who read one book implemented everything to the nth degree and produced a

00:41:25.620 hundred times the results that the guy who read a hundred books did because he didn't

00:41:28.900 do anything because he was too busy reading to go out and live his life.

00:41:33.580 Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't read books, but you should be pretty deliberate about what

00:41:37.680 you read.

00:41:38.220 If you're trying to develop a skillset at work, read a book on that.

00:41:42.000 If you're trying to work on relaxing and unwinding at the end of the day, probably a self-development

00:41:47.800 book isn't what you should read.

00:41:49.260 Maybe you should read an interesting thriller.

00:41:51.580 You know, we just had, as of the release of this podcast, just yesterday, I released my

00:41:56.640 podcast with Jack Carr and his newest book, Cry Havoc.

00:41:59.960 So maybe that's a book you should read.

00:42:01.820 Or if you're trying to bolster up your relationship, like some of our guests or the guys who have asked

00:42:06.780 questions today, then read a book on relationships, but make it deliberate.

00:42:11.600 Don't just say, Hey, I'm good.

00:42:13.040 And I'm doing things.

00:42:13.900 Cause I read a hundred books this year.

00:42:15.140 That means nothing to anybody until you put it into action.

00:42:18.700 Yeah.

00:42:19.140 And whether it's a book or, or a seminar, cause I've been guilty of this in the past as

00:42:23.140 well as pick, pick one, if at the very minimum, pick one thing, you know, I do this mostly

00:42:28.340 for seminars because there's books, it's a little easier to go back to the book and revisit

00:42:32.640 and take action on that.

00:42:34.220 But so a lot of times the seminars, you know, I used to be that guy that would bring a notebook

00:42:37.540 and write every, write everything down and then never take action on it.

00:42:41.520 So, so now when I go to seminars or conferences, try and pick one thing, um, that I'm going

00:42:46.660 to implement as soon as I get home and, and just really focus on that.

00:42:50.480 So I think that's, that's actually, listen, action is what it's all about.

00:42:55.220 Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:56.480 All right, let's go to Joshua Hinton.

00:42:58.460 He says, I'm depressed, but I put on a smile for my son.

00:43:01.400 I bring him to do the things, uh, to do things and try not to, and try not, try to not let

00:43:08.660 him see the side of me that is bringing me down every day when he's not around the sad

00:43:14.080 side comes out.

00:43:15.000 How do I learn to love myself and become a happier version about life?

00:43:19.480 Nothing seems to matter anymore except him.

00:43:22.020 Well, I mean, that's motivation right there.

00:43:25.020 And I hope it is.

00:43:26.440 I hope that having your son, it sounds like it is that having your son in your life is motivation

00:43:30.740 for you to keep going on.

00:43:32.520 Um, but I'm not going to say that's not enough.

00:43:35.980 I don't know.

00:43:36.800 I don't know if it is, it doesn't sound like it is at this point in your life.

00:43:39.700 And so I would ask, have you done the battle plan?

00:43:43.880 And I know that's, it's kind of laughable sometimes because battle plans, my joke for

00:43:48.080 everything.

00:43:48.400 There was a time where it was like jujitsu is the, uh, the answer for everything.

00:43:52.680 It, it is the answer for a lot.

00:43:55.040 And let me tell you why is when we lose hope about what the future holds, that's a depressive

00:44:03.820 state for men.

00:44:04.820 Men are, men are directional. 0.66

00:44:06.760 We're, we're linear.

00:44:07.820 And even when we meet as men, we stand shoulder to shoulder.

00:44:12.480 We relate shoulder to shoulder against a common enemy or towards a greater good.

00:44:18.500 And if you aren't sitting down thinking about what the future can hold, even if that just

00:44:23.000 means what kind of dad am I going to be to my son?

00:44:25.420 Then you have no directionality in your life.

00:44:28.220 And that happens to a lot of guys because they're not taking the time to think about what

00:44:32.200 the future might hold.

00:44:33.120 Um, I don't know what you're wrestling with.

00:44:36.100 I don't know what hardships you've had.

00:44:38.600 I'm sure you have had those hardships and those struggles, but whatever it is, you can

00:44:44.060 overcome it and you can be better and you can improve, but you need to spend some time

00:44:49.020 thinking about what does that look like?

00:44:51.780 What kind of father are you going to be?

00:44:53.760 What kind of husband or partner are you going to be?

00:44:57.140 Uh, when people think about you, what are they thinking about?

00:45:01.880 Uh, is there some great injustice that you see in the world today or that you've experienced

00:45:09.360 at some point in your life that you just can't tolerate and you want to pour in efforts into

00:45:14.360 fixing that problem?

00:45:16.820 You know, for me, order of man is the result of, of that.

00:45:20.720 I grew up without a permanent father figure in my life and I don't want men to struggle

00:45:25.740 the way that I did.

00:45:27.820 I don't want them to question if they're loved.

00:45:29.920 I don't want them to not know what it means to be a man.

00:45:33.060 I don't want them to not have the lessons that fathers teach and pass down to their sons.

00:45:37.460 I don't want men to experience that because I experienced that and I know what it's like.

00:45:43.500 And so when I wake up in the morning and I'm very keen on what I want to accomplish, I have

00:45:48.560 hope and optimism for the future.

00:45:50.140 And I can't help but think that, um, Joshua, it doesn't sound like you do have hope and

00:45:57.820 that's okay today, but it's not okay tomorrow.

00:46:01.140 You need to figure out something that's going to bring you some hope.

00:46:05.480 And by the way, when you start working towards those things, that's when you're going to develop

00:46:11.500 confidence.

00:46:12.140 confidence and when you have confidence, you begin to love yourself because you see that

00:46:17.160 you are a new version of yourself.

00:46:20.020 I don't get into the woo-woo love yourself just the way you are kind of thing at the expense of

00:46:25.340 improving in your life.

00:46:26.720 I still think you have worth and potential as a human, but why should we settle for who

00:46:33.780 we currently are when there's so much more that we could be?

00:46:36.580 If you want to love yourself, the best thing that you can do is have a vision, have some

00:46:43.420 objectives that line up with that vision and then get to work.

00:46:48.360 If you don't love yourself because you're overweight, and I don't, I don't know if that's the case,

00:46:51.780 but let's say hypothetically, that's part of it.

00:46:53.760 Then the only way to begin to love yourself is to go into the gym and, and train.

00:47:01.620 If you don't love yourself because of past mistakes that you've made in previous relationships,

00:47:06.360 the only way to fix that is by apologizing and making amends where you can, where it's possible

00:47:12.860 and letting the rest go and then being a new version for the next relationship that you're

00:47:17.780 going to be in.

00:47:20.680 The whole thing about, ah, just love yourself.

00:47:23.180 You should just love yourself.

00:47:24.300 That's not how it works.

00:47:26.300 I wish it were.

00:47:27.280 I wish I could just say today, I want to love myself more and we can make some of those

00:47:31.040 decisions, but you know what you do if you love something?

00:47:34.300 You invest in it.

00:47:36.740 You, you cherish it.

00:47:38.300 You protect it.

00:47:40.140 You, you, you keep it safe.

00:47:42.500 You polish it.

00:47:44.120 You make it better.

00:47:45.440 You improve it.

00:47:46.680 You spend time with it.

00:47:48.860 So if you want to love yourself, invest in yourself, polish it, refine it, make it better,

00:47:56.020 modify it, improve it, cherish it, treat it right.

00:48:00.600 And you will love it more.

00:48:04.480 Yeah.

00:48:05.300 We, I mean, we've seen it, right.

00:48:06.540 And what you're, you're talking about what we do in the iron council, you know, and we've

00:48:10.020 seen thousands of men, thousands of men change their lives by putting these tools and systems

00:48:14.420 in place.

00:48:15.500 And the only thing I'll add to that is, is, you know, don't be afraid to get professional

00:48:19.600 help as well.

00:48:20.180 Right.

00:48:20.560 If, if you truly are in a depressed state, you know, don't be afraid to get it.

00:48:23.780 Cause, cause I think as men, sometimes we resist that.

00:48:27.020 Uh, and there's value in it and it doesn't mean you're broken.

00:48:30.580 It just means that you need to be coached a little bit on, on what having that healthy

00:48:35.320 mindset looks like.

00:48:37.560 Yep, exactly.

00:48:38.960 Exactly.

00:48:39.740 Well, I have one more question here.

00:48:40.900 I wanted to get to Jay.

00:48:41.760 This one comes from, uh, Boomer Perrault.

00:48:44.800 I think it's how you'd say his last name.

00:48:46.700 He said, aside from practicing in real time situations, what are some of the most effective

00:48:51.620 ways you found to manage your emotions?

00:48:54.640 I'm not necessarily talking about avoiding major outbursts, but more staying calm and

00:48:58.940 keeping a neutral tone rather than frustration or attitude sneaking into your voice during

00:49:04.080 everyday conversations.

00:49:06.420 Okay.

00:49:06.860 So you did qualify that a little bit.

00:49:08.420 You said of outside of practicing in real time situations.

00:49:11.120 So I will focus on what that would look like.

00:49:14.560 Your job as a man is to, is to regulate your emotions.

00:49:17.480 Um, it's to use your emotions as feedback for something going well or something going

00:49:22.720 wrong in your life, depending on the emotion.

00:49:26.480 And there are certain emotions that you are likely prone to.

00:49:31.820 Um, maybe it's impatience.

00:49:33.900 Maybe it's anger.

00:49:35.040 Jay, you talked about being angry when you were younger.

00:49:37.780 Um, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's, you have a propensity to yell and, and lash out or

00:49:43.680 even violence.

00:49:44.360 You know, you punch walls or you physically or emotionally abuse other people, but there's

00:49:49.760 something happening there.

00:49:50.860 And the best way I think to learn, to regulate your emotions outside of practicing in real

00:49:58.840 time is to sit with them, is to become familiar with them.

00:50:03.520 This is the whole premise for Carl Jung's work.

00:50:05.780 Shadow work is to be, become familiar with who you are, all the flaws and character deficiencies

00:50:13.500 and skill sets and God-given talents, the whole, the whole gambit, you as a whole and

00:50:20.120 complete person.

00:50:21.640 And if you can learn to sit with being impatient, then you're going to have a better time when

00:50:27.860 things aren't working out the way you want.

00:50:29.620 If you can be angry and sit down and maybe journal or reflect or go for a walk and develop

00:50:38.840 some of these, yes, coping mechanisms, but also just sitting with it.

00:50:44.560 See, I, what I think is, I think too many people are trying to find ways not to be angry.

00:50:48.820 And so they never address the real problem.

00:50:52.240 What is the problem?

00:50:53.140 Why are you angry?

00:50:55.060 Why do you feel slighted?

00:50:56.700 Why do you feel like you're being personally attacked?

00:50:59.380 Why do you feel like people are out to get you?

00:51:02.740 These are all things that I've thought of in the past.

00:51:05.480 Why do I feel like that?

00:51:07.860 And if I can just sit with being angry and give myself permission to be angry, it has less

00:51:13.940 of a weight or relevance in my life.

00:51:17.560 Now, I'm not saying that, well, let me say it this way.

00:51:21.580 There's a distinction between what you feel and what you do.

00:51:25.280 And a lot of people conflate the two.

00:51:27.540 So for example, if I'm angry and I'm not getting my way about something and I go over the wall

00:51:32.200 and I punch a hole in the wall, people say, this guy is so angry.

00:51:36.260 Well, the anger isn't the problem.

00:51:38.000 The response to the anger was the problem because there might be some justifiable reasons for

00:51:42.920 me to be angry.

00:51:43.800 If, however, I'm angry with somebody and instead of punching the wall or worse, them,

00:51:50.340 I talk with them realistically.

00:51:52.500 I talk with them with reason, with a level of empathy and seeking to understand, that's

00:52:00.120 a proper and effective use of anger in my life.

00:52:03.940 And it's going to produce the desired result.

00:52:05.600 So I would say sit with it and come up with mechanisms for, I don't want to say releasing

00:52:14.500 it, but acknowledging it, whether it's journaling, talking, like you said, with a therapist or

00:52:19.600 a friend, going for a walk, writing things down, listening to certain music or, you know,

00:52:27.060 certain inspirational messages.

00:52:28.880 That's what I would do.

00:52:31.700 Yeah.

00:52:32.180 And the only thing I'll add to that is, is visualize yourself.

00:52:35.020 Like, but this is, this is kind of the calibration quadrant, right?

00:52:38.060 Like take time every day to visualize yourself handling situations that you know, in the past

00:52:44.140 have, have triggered you or, or you've been impatient or you've snapped and visualize actually

00:52:49.420 how you would handle those.

00:52:50.580 Right.

00:52:50.780 Or if you have one of those, this is the after action review, right?

00:52:53.360 If you have a, you know, listen, we're all, we all slip, we all fall back.

00:52:56.720 Right.

00:52:57.280 If you have one of these incidents where maybe you were impatient with, I don't know,

00:53:00.940 your wife or your kids and, and think about, okay, what, what I, what can I do better next

00:53:05.300 time?

00:53:05.560 And how would I handle that next time?

00:53:07.040 And the more you think about it, the more you recognize that, I mean, it's, it's not

00:53:10.900 practicing it in real time, but it's practicing it.

00:53:13.120 So I would just add visualization of how you want to be in those situations would be effective

00:53:19.140 as well.

00:53:20.740 Yeah.

00:53:21.160 And you know, there's another, I really liked that.

00:53:23.260 I'm glad you said that.

00:53:24.040 There's another thing that you can do too, is to take that even further is not only visualize

00:53:29.180 what you're going to do next time, visualize the outcome of you handling it properly.

00:53:35.100 So instead of undermining trust and them being scared, your kids, for example, being scared

00:53:39.480 of you, imagine a situation where maybe you are administering discipline because that's

00:53:43.980 what children need, but you do it in a very calm, respectful, understandable way.

00:53:47.700 And now you didn't just undermine your trust with them.

00:53:50.860 You actually bolstered it up and you actually poured into the relationship.

00:53:56.460 And how are you going to kids receive you when you do that?

00:54:00.000 Visualize that, visualize them not being afraid of you, visualize them running it.

00:54:04.680 You know, when they come in the door or you come home from work that they run to you instead

00:54:08.060 of away from you.

00:54:08.900 And I've been there where, you know, I come home and my kids are like, everybody kind of

00:54:13.560 scatters because they don't want to be around dad when he gets home.

00:54:18.400 And I've been in situations where the kids come over or I, or I come home and they come

00:54:23.320 to me, which one do you want to be?

00:54:26.100 Visualize what kind of man would elicit that type of result in people.

00:54:29.780 Yeah, I think that's, that, that part that you added was so powerful because, you know,

00:54:36.540 I, sometimes, and I experienced this with my anger is we go so far the other way.

00:54:41.280 Right.

00:54:41.720 And it's like, okay, now I'm not disciplining my kids because I'm afraid, I'm afraid that

00:54:45.380 I'm going to come across as that angry dad.

00:54:47.340 But, but visually, visualizing that the effect you want allows you to still discipline, but

00:54:53.180 discipline appropriately and then, um, not go too far the other way.

00:54:58.380 Right.

00:54:59.980 And, you know, even with discipline, how do you, how do you do that appropriately with

00:55:04.000 your children?

00:55:04.500 You do it in love, right?

00:55:05.500 Because it's, it's, again, to go back to the things that we love, we, we pour into them.

00:55:10.300 We, we, we set it in order.

00:55:12.680 We take care of it.

00:55:13.940 We, we do the things that need to be done in order for that to be a thing that is, is

00:55:18.960 cherished and loved and cared for.

00:55:20.860 And you can discipline your kids in love or you can do it in anger.

00:55:26.320 You could do either one.

00:55:28.740 But I mean, obviously, I think it's obvious that everybody listening to this wants to

00:55:33.120 discipline their children in love because you're disciplining them.

00:55:35.480 So they learn lessons that, that will serve them throughout life.

00:55:39.540 And I think if you come at it with that motive of, Hey, I love this person.

00:55:43.180 And you explain to them, Hey, I love you.

00:55:45.780 I care about you.

00:55:46.920 And when I see you do these things, I know it's not going to serve you long run.

00:55:50.220 You may not fully understand it now.

00:55:51.880 Uh, but I've been alive for 35 more years than you.

00:55:56.540 So have some, have some faith and have some trust that I've been through what you've been

00:56:02.360 through and I've done it over and over and over again.

00:56:05.680 And I need you to learn the lesson so that your life is better than mine was because I didn't

00:56:10.280 learn that lesson initially.

00:56:12.200 Yeah.

00:56:12.600 And that's our goal with our kids, right?

00:56:14.640 Is we all, at least my goal.

00:56:16.620 And I think we all could agree that we just want our kids to do, do and do be in and have

00:56:21.500 more than we had.

00:56:23.280 Yeah.

00:56:23.880 I mean, absolutely.

00:56:25.540 Well, Jay, this has been good.

00:56:26.580 We got a lot of good questions today.

00:56:28.440 Um, hopefully guys, we gave you some good answers.

00:56:31.200 Um, I, we talked about the iron council a lot.

00:56:33.760 We're open right now.

00:56:34.840 So, uh, join us as quickly as you can and get in there because in about a month or two,

00:56:41.960 everybody's going to start thinking about new year's resolutions and they're going to do

00:56:47.820 it a week before 2026.

00:56:49.800 And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

00:56:52.740 If that's what gets you thinking about new goals and ideas for what you want in the future,

00:56:57.500 then by all means, use that arbitrary date to, to make it happen.

00:57:01.980 But I would say to you that if you really care about your improvement, then you will invest

00:57:08.240 in yourself now.

00:57:11.300 If you really care about that connection that you're trying to develop, or you really care

00:57:16.860 about improving your physical fitness, or you really care about financial prosperity,

00:57:22.800 or starting that new business, or picking up that new hobby, or in the case of some of

00:57:28.540 these guys asking questions, having other men to bandwidth, to bounce ideas off of, to

00:57:33.180 support, to be supported by, then do that today.

00:57:36.760 And the iron council is a great way to do it.

00:57:38.240 That way, January, 2026, we've already been thinking about it for 90 days.

00:57:42.300 We've already been putting plans in place.

00:57:43.880 We're already working towards our goals.

00:57:46.280 We're 90 days ahead of everybody else out there who's just waiting for December 31st.

00:57:51.820 Don't do that.

00:57:52.700 If you really want to improve your life, do it today.

00:57:54.760 Invest in yourself.

00:57:55.680 As we said, love yourself enough to invest.

00:57:58.420 And you can do that at orderman.com slash iron council.

00:58:02.720 Hopefully we'll see you guys there.

00:58:03.740 We've had about 80, just under 80 guys sign up here in the last little bit.

00:58:07.700 So we are growing and moving, and I'm very excited about the prospects of what we're going

00:58:12.320 to do in this last quarter of 2025.

00:58:15.040 Jay, anything you want to add?

00:58:17.160 No, just to echo what you just said, the best time to start was yesterday.

00:58:20.680 The next best time is today.

00:58:22.040 Right.

00:58:22.620 That's right.

00:58:23.380 Well, guys, I appreciate you all.

00:58:24.660 Jay, I appreciate you being on this podcast.

00:58:26.500 And I'm sure we'll have you back as Kip is sick and he's distracted with other things.

00:58:31.780 I don't even know what he's doing.

00:58:32.700 I think he's traveling with his family.

00:58:34.060 So we'll give him a pass on this one.

00:58:35.720 For sure.

00:58:36.440 Family first, right?

00:58:37.540 Family first.

00:58:38.640 Well, I appreciate you having me on.

00:58:39.880 It's always a pleasure.

00:58:40.980 Of course.

00:58:41.360 Yeah.

00:58:41.480 And I appreciate everybody else.

00:58:42.820 Guys, right now, we'll be back on Friday for our Friday Field Notes.

00:58:46.920 But until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

00:58:51.420 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:58:54.380 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be?

00:58:58.060 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:59:07.540 Thank you.

00:59:08.640 Thank you.

Order of Man - October 08, 2025

The Pareto Principle, Overcoming Despair, and Why the Basics Always Win ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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