Order of Man - The Path from Navy SEAL to NASA Astronaut

00:00:00.000 If you're anything like me, when you were a kid, you had dreams of becoming an elite warrior or

00:00:04.800 a NASA astronaut, maybe even both. My guest today is a man that took those dreams and is making

00:00:11.040 them a reality. His name is Mario Romero. He's a former Navy SEAL. He's a current NASA diver and

00:00:17.420 aspiring NASA astronaut. And he's here today to talk about what that path looks like, his struggles

00:00:23.020 along the way, failures and setbacks, his path to redemption, and ultimately how he's a man who

00:00:28.460 is currently living out every boy's dreams. You're a man of action. You live life to the

00:00:33.500 fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back

00:00:39.040 up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:46.620 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:00:52.000 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:00:57.420 My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of the podcast and the movement that

00:01:01.820 is Order of Man. It's my goal to unite more men around the mission of reclaiming and restoring

00:01:06.840 traditional masculinity in a society that seems to be increasingly dismissive of it. I am glad that

00:01:13.080 you're here. I'm glad you're tuning in. It's been an amazing couple of months with the growth

00:01:17.120 that we've had, which is a testament to, yes, the work we're doing, but also the fact that more of

00:01:22.100 you want to become more capable men, men who step up in their homes and communities and businesses

00:01:28.500 and every facet of life that you're showing up. And I want to let you know before we get started

00:01:32.320 today that I'm inspired by you. I get stories and messages and emails every day from those of you who

00:01:37.400 are securing promotions and starting businesses and redeeming your marriages and connecting with kids

00:01:45.140 and picking up new hobbies and losing weight and doing all of the wonderful things that you're doing.

00:01:49.080 And I want to let you know that I'm inspired and moved by that so much so that I'm attempting,

00:01:53.660 of course, always to be doing that in my own life. So with that said, we've got a great conversation

00:02:00.580 for you lined up today. Somebody that I admire and respect and that I'm anxious or was anxious to

00:02:05.420 talk with. And of course, excited to get into your earbuds. You're going to really, really enjoy

00:02:10.640 this conversation. Before I get into that, I do want to let you know about our show sponsors,

00:02:16.540 origin, Maine. Uh, they are making all kinds of great stuff. We'll say stuff because it seems like

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00:03:11.860 you do. So again, check out origin, main.com under your boots, denim. Uh, I have it on good

00:03:19.620 authority that they may have some, uh, some new outerwear coming out here soon too. We'll talk more

00:03:25.000 about that down the road. Anyways, go check it out. Origin, main.com use the code order. All right,

00:03:30.080 guys, with that said, let me just jump right into the discussion with, uh, Mario Romero. As I

00:03:34.460 mentioned, uh, he is a former Navy SEAL. He spent eight years with the Navy. Uh, then he,

00:03:40.420 upon leaving the terms, he enrolled in college and achieved his bachelor's degree in pure mathematics,

00:03:45.560 which, uh, you'll hear a little bit more about from Columbia university. And to add to all that

00:03:51.420 over the past year, he's been working with NASA as a diver, uh, preparing both the technology and

00:03:56.900 astronauts for the demands and rigors of space travel. Uh, he's had a ton of ups and downs over the

00:04:03.780 past years. Uh, despite his tremendous success in life, he's one of the most humble individuals I've

00:04:09.640 had the honor of sitting down with. And I know, I know that you were going to enjoy this conversation

00:04:14.240 as much as I did. Hey, what's up, buddy? How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I know we, uh, tried to

00:04:19.880 make this work well last week, but, uh, technology got the better of us. Yeah. A little bit of those

00:04:24.620 audio issues, but it seems like we got it going, going now. It's so funny. It's like, I, I talk to

00:04:29.880 people and I'm like, you know, it's 2019. There should be no technology issues regarding the

00:04:34.180 internet and getting a podcast up and running, but we deal with it nonetheless. Yeah. You should

00:04:39.120 see the, uh, even connectivity issues with audio on the international space station. It's always

00:04:43.260 hilarious to watch celebrities when they come into my work and they, they head over to mission control

00:04:48.040 and they speak with the astronauts. There's still that delay that kind of throws them off a little

00:04:53.140 bit. And sometimes it's a little bit choppy and, and you think, Hey, this is NASA, you know,

00:04:56.980 there's, but you also forget that they're about 250 miles up moving at about 17,500 miles per hour.

00:05:02.520 So that's so insane. I mean, you're that that's a little justifiable. There's this comedian. He does

00:05:07.800 a, he does a routine and I can't remember who it is. Maybe CK Lewis. And he said, you know, or no,

00:05:13.140 I can't remember what it is. He says, just give it a minute. It's going to space, you know? So it's

00:05:17.920 like that, that patience is hard for us to deal with in this world we live in for sure.

00:05:21.820 Yeah. Imagine how hard it is for the, uh, for the engineers who are speaking to the robotics that are out,

00:05:26.140 you know, maybe minute delays or even further than that. Think about the Voyager that's out there.

00:05:30.900 That's, you know, that's got several, uh, a good amount of time, several hours.

00:05:35.300 Is that what it is? A several hours to be able to connect?

00:05:38.180 Yeah. Well, it's out there in the Kuiper belt, uh, the Kuiper comet belt. So it's, it's out,

00:05:42.920 you know, beyond the, uh, the orbit of Pluto, Neptune out there.

00:05:47.200 That's wild. And then does it just keep getting further and further at this point?

00:05:51.000 Or is that something that's not going to be recoverable, correct?

00:05:53.960 No. The original intention between, for a Voyager one and two was, uh, to go send out,

00:05:59.860 and now, you know, there's debates on whether this was a good idea or not, but to send out

00:06:03.800 pretty much coordinates to where we are. And, uh, there's golden discs with sounds of earth. Um,

00:06:10.280 there's a bunch of children saying hello and welcome. And, uh, there's some drawings on it.

00:06:14.240 There there's, it's an actual record and, um, it has a bunch of music, actually a lot of,

00:06:19.820 a lot of the classical music and a lot of the famous stuff from the, from the seventies and earlier.

00:06:23.960 Um, and then it has like maps. It has the figurines drawn of what, what we as a species look like.

00:06:29.720 It has a bunch of information. Interesting. Where do you fall on that, uh, on that thought of

00:06:35.080 whether or not we should put our coordinates out into the, out into the universe?

00:06:38.160 I think it's, you know, I think it's a good idea. I mean, I don't see how it can go wrong.

00:06:42.320 You know, the universe is so vast. It's so big, um, that I think by the time, if the chances

00:06:50.060 of anything finding it is are relatively low. Sure. And by the time anything actually finds

00:06:54.860 it, who knows if we'll even be here. If, if the coordinates to this solar system, you

00:06:59.160 know, this solar system will even exist. You know, we have another about 5 billion years

00:07:03.120 before the, the, the sun morphs into a grotesque version of itself and, and kind of inflates

00:07:09.480 into this red giant. And then just consumes everything. I imagine. Yeah. Well, we, it

00:07:14.640 might, uh, it might, um, blow up to the, uh, to a radius or to a radius large enough from

00:07:22.620 its center to consume here, us on earth on the third planets. It might not depending on

00:07:27.640 because of its size, but it's always a possibility. We'll definitely be burned away. I mean, our

00:07:32.020 atmosphere. Oh yeah. So, yeah. I mean, it's probably a fairly small percentage of growth

00:07:39.100 in order for the heat to just vaporize us. I mean, it doesn't have to consume us just

00:07:44.100 the heat itself. I imagine would vaporize us with just a, with just a, an infinitesimally

00:07:48.720 small, uh, growth in size, if you will. Yeah. That's all it takes. Well, yeah, it will

00:07:55.400 have to grow, you know, that decent amount. It's tiny, like you're saying in the overall

00:08:00.140 right in the grand scheme of things. Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Wow. How did you get into

00:08:04.900 all this, man? I, uh, has this something that's, that's been on your mind forever or, or is this?

00:08:09.800 Yes. So when it comes to like space, I can kind of attribute a lot of my interest and passion

00:08:15.280 from when I was a little kid, you know, I, I, my mother, she worked like two jobs to keep

00:08:20.540 us fed and to keep us how housed and everything. We were raised by a single mother, my brother,

00:08:25.120 my sister and myself. And, uh, unfortunately I didn't get to see her very often because

00:08:29.640 she worked so long and so late. So at night I would go into her room, uh, before she got

00:08:36.500 home and I would make her bed and I'd lay in it and I'd have the TV on. And what was

00:08:40.120 playing was always Star Trek at that time of night. It was always Star Trek playing.

00:08:43.900 So I'd fall asleep listening to, you know, the sounds of Star Trek. Also, I, I watched,

00:08:49.320 I don't know if you remember a flight of the navigator, which is, I don't remember it.

00:08:52.480 No, it was a, it was an eighties movie in which this, this kid sneaks into a NASA facility

00:08:57.900 and there's a, an, an alien space technology spacecraft that's shaped kind of like a teardrop

00:09:03.580 and the spaceship is sentient. It's actually like, it can think, it can speak.

00:09:09.400 The spaceship itself.

00:09:10.660 Yeah. So he sneaks inside. It's every kid's dream. He sneaks into the spacecraft and he becomes

00:09:16.700 friends with it. And the actual spacecraft has different forms of life from all its visits.

00:09:22.720 All over the universe. And so it takes him on this adventure, you know, it's like a,

00:09:26.520 like a stereotypical eighties, like kid venture movie.

00:09:30.660 Sure. Sure.

00:09:31.380 Well, the boy actually ends up leaving earth. They go and travel like, you know,

00:09:36.680 on earth, they travel the bottom of the ocean, they travel in the space and,

00:09:40.160 and, um, well, he ends up coming back to earth and he is, has stayed the same age and

00:09:47.640 his whole family is about 10 years older. And so as a little kid, this didn't make sense to me.

00:09:52.980 You know, I, I would learn later in life what time dilation meant and how it actually worked,

00:09:57.220 but it always stuck with me. You know, I, I just time and space and how this happened. It just,

00:10:02.320 it didn't make any sense. So naturally I had a built-in curiosity as a child. And then, um,

00:10:08.320 I, I couple those two with, with, after I was a, uh, uh, I got up one morning really early in the

00:10:14.900 morning as a little kid. And we were going on a family trip up North, a drive, a drive that we

00:10:20.220 were going to start real early in the morning. So, I mean, it had to be three or four in the morning

00:10:24.400 and there was no sun up yet. And I wasn't used to that. And I do remember walking outside and looking

00:10:28.760 up and seeing those dots, you know, those dots in the sky and wondering what the heck is that?

00:10:35.180 What is that? And so when people try to explain it to me, you know, it only feeds your, your,

00:10:39.860 your, your imagination as a child. So all these different things coupled with learning more and

00:10:44.560 more about it as, as I got older and still today. And, you know, it's still renders that childhood

00:10:50.700 curiosity. It's still one of those things that makes me feel like a kid again. That's the beauty,

00:10:57.680 I guess, of, of science and astronomy and mathematics. And you never lose that feeling.

00:11:03.940 Yeah, I can tell. I can hear it in your voice, which is really cool. Um, cause I think a lot

00:11:07.740 of guys have lost that, you know, we, we, we do what we're supposed to do, right? So we go to school

00:11:13.820 and we get the job and we go into the cubicle and we just live that mundane, monotonous life that

00:11:19.120 we aren't designed for that doesn't satisfy us. It doesn't fulfill us in any way. And then we wonder

00:11:24.000 why men are dealing with depression and potentially even suicidal thoughts, you know, and I hear you

00:11:29.100 and I'm like, all right, this is a guy who like is deeply, deeply engaged in his work. He's excited

00:11:33.480 about what he's doing and that's, uh, refreshing to hear and see for sure. Yeah. And you know, I feel,

00:11:39.080 it feels like, and this is, this might sound a little bit mean towards other, uh, other, you know,

00:11:45.400 maybe perhaps other people's passions or other lines of work, but I tend to look at all the other,

00:11:50.700 all the other types of jobs and careers out there. And, and to me, a lot of them seem cyclical

00:11:56.660 in nature, like they exist for the sake of existing and they move in a circle and very,

00:12:01.180 very few of these, of these, you know, careers and, and paths in life actually move upward or,

00:12:08.040 or contribute in a way that, that adds to that human house of knowledge or that in a tiny,

00:12:14.200 you know, infinitesimally small way helps possibly save our species in the long run,

00:12:21.260 you know? And I mean, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've read Sebastian Junger's tribe when he,

00:12:26.800 when he talks about, you know, the, the, the need to feel relevant, the need to feel,

00:12:31.720 to feel as if you're a participant in something that actually matters. And in the book, he, he,

00:12:36.020 he, you know, narrows it to how it is in wartime and, and, you know, the various war,

00:12:40.560 not just war, but primarily war, how people can feel useful in times of, of great, you know,

00:12:46.040 terror. But, um, I always saw working in, you know, I, you know, the space or the frontier of

00:12:55.460 knowledge of knowing and unknowing. I saw that as, Hey, no matter how small I am, I'm still a

00:13:00.620 participant, no matter how bad of a day I might have, which no, none of my days are ever bad.

00:13:06.340 The worst, you know, the upper limit for my bad day is like somebody else's,

00:13:10.240 absolute rock bottom, you know, for, for, for a limit of a bad day. So, cause I always see it

00:13:17.300 that way. I'm like in some small, so in fact, what we're, what they're doing today, um, yesterday,

00:13:22.120 drew drew Morgan and Jessica, uh, or Christina Koch were doing a spacewalk, a series of about six

00:13:29.580 spacewalks, um, for replacements on what's called the, uh, the IEA, the integrated electronics

00:13:35.340 assembly. They're doing some battery replacements. And this is, uh, this is all stuff

00:13:40.240 that I've been a part of. We've, we've been writing these procedures. We've been practicing

00:13:43.640 and training and training and training. And, and, you know, next month we're going to start

00:13:47.440 a series of spacewalks to repair what's called the AMS, the alpha magnetic spectrometer that's

00:13:51.820 on the international space station. And this is like a, a hyper, um, uh, particle, uh, almost

00:13:59.600 it, it, what it is, it's a dark matter detector. So it's going to help us detect dark matter

00:14:04.340 throughout the universe, get a better understanding of it. And all these little things, you know,

00:14:08.720 help me help give me that feeling of fulfillment. Like where you were saying earlier that, that

00:14:13.760 maybe some people have lost. And I think, I think it's kind of crucial to find that, you

00:14:18.480 know, to, to redirect in some small way, whatever it is in your life that, that for, I mean, that's

00:14:25.480 how it works for me. I can't speak for anyone else. I only have my perspective on this whole

00:14:28.920 existence, but it works for me. And I think it's, I think it's, it might work for others also.

00:14:34.700 Well, I'm, I mean, I imagine whether they want to be an astronaut or something else that all of us

00:14:39.340 have a desire to find fulfillment in our lives, right? We all, we all find that in different ways,

00:14:43.200 but it seems like you found yours and that's very cool. So with dark matter, I'm curious,

00:14:47.520 because if I understand dark matter correctly, we can't, is it that we can't measure it, but we can

00:14:52.480 measure the results or the impact of the matter? Is that, is that how that works?

00:14:56.660 So dark matter, I mean, we placed the word dark because there's still so many unknowns to it.

00:15:03.980 We do know that it's, it's almost a gravitational force that kind of clumps galaxies, you know,

00:15:10.060 local groups of galaxies, or even like, even within the galaxy itself, clumps things together. And,

00:15:16.280 and so how we can detect it, this, this actual, this alpha magnetic spectrometer is, is going to

00:15:24.800 detect in various ways, all these high speed particles, but how we can actually detect dark

00:15:30.180 matter is its effects on other things. You know, there's, there's, um, gravitational lensing, the

00:15:35.340 way it distorts light, the way it distorts, you know, distances between, or distances between galaxies,

00:15:41.760 we can measure around it and kind of get an image of it, but we just, we still don't know, you know,

00:15:47.000 we don't know. And that that's exciting. Yeah. I imagine that is, I mean, there's so much,

00:15:51.740 it seems to me that the more you discover, the more you realize there is so much more to discover,

00:15:56.480 like the answers that you get, just bring up more questions as opposed to answers to things.

00:16:01.280 I'm sure. And that's great. I mean, some people might find that extremely frustrating, but I,

00:16:06.600 I like it, you know, it's talk about a sense of fulfillment. There's always going to be something

00:16:11.180 to learn. Well, I think, I imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's, it's the path of discovery

00:16:17.540 that drives you rather than maybe the discovery itself. I'm sure discovering new things is exciting,

00:16:23.360 but the path seems to be just as exciting for you. Oh yeah. You know, exactly. That's exactly it.

00:16:29.140 In fact, I agree 100%. I think the path is more important because who wants to be,

00:16:35.480 I mean, I guess there are people that like to be satiated, but for me, that's just not in my,

00:16:39.840 you know, that's not in my, I have no interest. I mean, I do have an interest in finding it,

00:16:45.800 but I have no interest in ceasing the, the investigation or the interrogation of nature

00:16:50.620 in order to find new and more things, because it's about how much I can contribute before I

00:16:55.640 pass my time here on, you know, on earth. Um, how much can I do? It's you, I wrote this down

00:17:03.060 because you used a term that was interesting. You said interrogation as opposed to investigation

00:17:06.860 of nature. What's, what's the distinction between the two? I mean, I think the interrogation of nature

00:17:12.520 is, uh, just a, a more of a, an in-depth sussing out of the realities of nature. And you know, the,

00:17:22.260 the reality of, of all of this is even our most, even our most objective scientific understanding is

00:17:30.720 still observed through the subjective nature or the subjective creature that we are. So what we do

00:17:37.140 is do our best in trying to, you know, grab things and put it in this pot of objective reality. And

00:17:43.860 then, you know, if it, if it meets all the criteria or the standards for, for, you know, in scientific

00:17:49.860 rigor, then we, then we can place it in our actual reality, objective reality. However, it's always up for

00:17:57.500 further interrogation, that thing, you know, if there's new evidence that might, Hey, you, you got

00:18:02.580 to pull this out, this isn't actually right. And that's that, you know, that's that never ending

00:18:08.020 attempt at understanding at a deeper level that, that sussing out that interrogation of everything.

00:18:14.180 So it's never quite over, you know, just like, you know, back in the 1800s, we thought,

00:18:19.500 or the physicists of the day thought physics was basically done, you know, right. Solved, right.

00:18:24.120 Yeah. And then we, we thought we had a, you know, a decent understanding of astrophysics

00:18:29.120 with, you know, Kepler's laws and, and Copernicus, Copernican understanding and get Galileo and

00:18:34.000 Newton, all these people. And then came, uh, uh, Einstein with this, you know, relativity,

00:18:39.580 special and general relativity, just like shook the foundations of what we understood. So we had

00:18:43.180 to go back to the drawing board and this might, obviously this might anger, like a few of the

00:18:48.640 scientists that originated the original thoughts, but this is great for humanity because look where we are

00:18:53.320 today. Thanks to, you know, the understanding. So I, I am excited for, I am excited about the

00:18:59.380 discovery of new things, but I'm also equally, or even more excited about the loss, you know,

00:19:04.720 the change, the new information that comes. Sure. It's funny that, cause I think you're right.

00:19:10.200 I think some people would be angry, but objective truth and discovering new information shouldn't anger

00:19:17.000 anybody. It should be, I mean, I could see somebody being, maybe their ego being crushed

00:19:24.520 a little bit, but outside of that, there's nothing to be angry about. It's new discovery. And even some

00:19:29.380 of these people who paved the way and maybe got some of this information wrong. And I've heard other

00:19:34.360 podcasts and other books and, and, and read books and listen to things where, you know, maybe they got

00:19:39.100 like Newton elements of, of some of his theories were incorrect, but he also paved the way for a lot of

00:19:45.340 what we know about much of the laws of physics that we, we understand even more so now and today.

00:19:51.420 Yeah. I mean, kinematics, uh, you know, this, this is the most basic of physics one-on-one and it's,

00:19:59.100 it, it still guides everything we do. We have our rocketry. We have, you know, we have calculus.

00:20:05.900 I mean, calculus, you can sort of attribute it to, you know, uh, Archimedes in fact, and, uh, in thousand

00:20:12.880 years before, um, the, the very beginnings of it, but we have, um, Newton and Leibniz and all these

00:20:20.840 people that, that contributed to these, these monsters, these giants, and they were, they were

00:20:24.680 still wrong in some of those, some of their understanding, you know, there were, there were

00:20:28.880 limits that, that when, uh, when Newton reached the limit of his own personal understanding, he

00:20:37.640 generally, he generally fell into the trap of, of using the God of the gaps theory or the God of

00:20:44.660 that argument. Yeah. I'm not familiar with that. So the God of the gaps is, is it's, I like to,

00:20:51.240 the way I think about it, it's a sort of cognitive closure for people who'd rather have an under,

00:20:55.900 who rather be satiated in an idea and, and it makes certain people feel good. And so what the God of

00:21:02.060 the gaps is, is it's this infinite regression and argumentation that always goes back to the same

00:21:08.680 thing. Hey, if I don't understand this, that's because, because, because a God did it. And then

00:21:13.540 like a few years later, we find out, okay, this is how this happens, you know? And then what happens

00:21:18.240 to that argument? Oh, well then that happens because a God did it, you know? So every time there's a gap,

00:21:22.860 people will, uh, you know, people will plug that hole with this idea of a God, which is,

00:21:28.080 which is fine for some people if that's what they, if that's what they need. I think it might

00:21:31.680 crush a curiosity of a child. If you tell children this, I think we should encourage kids to

00:21:36.840 investigate and interrogate instead of telling them this. And if you want to word it in a way

00:21:42.480 that's like, okay, well, you know, the God that we believe wants us to understand it on a deeper,

00:21:47.060 that's great. That's, you know, I would, I would support that argument enough that it doesn't

00:21:52.180 crush the child's curiosity or wonderment. But Newton, Newton fell into this trap, even though he was a

00:21:58.100 giant, he still couldn't come to terms with saying, you know what, we haven't, we just haven't solved

00:22:02.820 it yet. Or we have, we're not there yet. Or if you're talking to a kid, you say, you know what,

00:22:06.120 maybe you're the one that's going to discover it. Maybe you're the one that's going to be the one

00:22:09.560 that actually solves this problem or under, or helps us understand something to foster it. But

00:22:14.580 yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Cause I tend to lean more towards the idea. If I don't understand

00:22:19.300 something, um, potentially God, right. I recognize his hand in all things. Um, but that doesn't mean that

00:22:26.020 he didn't use laws of physics and things that can be explained and proven to create this universe and

00:22:32.900 the phenomenon that we experience. So I could see how somebody would say, Oh, it's just this,

00:22:37.180 the problem with that, with that, uh, argument is that you can't prove it. And it's almost a little

00:22:44.980 bit of a lazy way to just, like you said, fill in those gaps. Yeah. So it's an intellectual laziness.

00:22:50.040 And one of my favorite, if not my favorite scientist of all time, uh, Galileo, when, when

00:22:56.600 the initial, uh, when he was initially being, you know, interrogated by the Catholic church, he, he,

00:23:02.700 he said something that was really smart. And he said, you know, that, that the God of, of Catholicism

00:23:08.160 teaches us how to go to heaven, not how to, how the heavens go. So, you know, he, he wanted to rely

00:23:15.840 on our understanding or our objective, our ability to use objective, uh, observation to understand

00:23:23.460 things and not always rely on this because I think obviously it gets us a lot further. What

00:23:27.980 did Galileo gave us so much, you know, so much understanding. Um, obviously he got put in house

00:23:32.840 arrests on June 22nd, 1633 for being a heretic until he died. Yeah. But, um, yeah, let me ask you

00:23:40.700 this because I've fallen into the trap. I don't know if it's a trap so much as sometimes to me, I say

00:23:45.300 things like, or things, things that some of this stuff doesn't matter, right? Some of these laws

00:23:50.920 or some of these things we experience what they are and ultimately discovering and knowing what they

00:23:55.200 are don't matter. But if I think about that objectively, it's probably not true because

00:23:59.820 if we do know that information, there's so much more to be explored and understood. And then progress

00:24:05.700 can be, can be made from that. But I, but I assume that's an argument that you run across quite a

00:24:10.760 bit, especially being in the NASA program. Like why the hell are we doing this still? Like we've been to

00:24:14.800 the moon. Like what else can we possibly do? Yeah. So I, I disagree with that. And in fact,

00:24:20.980 we win wars because it matters. And, uh, why I say that is there was a, there was a, a Soviet paper

00:24:28.180 written by these, these, these Soviets back in like, I don't know, it must've been the,

00:24:33.640 however many years ago in the forties. And, um, it was, it was on a, on a subject that,

00:24:39.680 and no one thought mattered in physics. It was about the collapsing of these radio waves once

00:24:44.960 they interfere with, with, you know, various shapes. And, and it's just like somebody studying

00:24:50.500 the, the testosterone effects of, uh, of a, a naked mole rat. You most people be like, what,

00:24:56.480 why are we doing that? But we don't have, but we don't understand that the same people that did in,

00:25:01.820 that contributed to all these things 50 years ago, 60 years ago, we've fallen back on their paper

00:25:07.600 and built whole sciences like the, that Russian that I was just talking about the Americans.

00:25:12.220 We built the F one 17 stealth fighter and we're able to crush our enemies because with the, the,

00:25:19.160 if you see the, uh, the angles on the F one 17 was built by studying this research that was done by

00:25:25.580 these, these Russian physicists that showed that the radar, once it hits it, as they reflect back,

00:25:30.780 it kind of collapses in on itself, which makes this a target. Uh, it hides completely the signature.

00:25:36.400 Oh, interesting. Yeah. So we don't, we, it might not be valuable to us right now,

00:25:41.060 but years down the line, it's, it's going to be valuable. You know, what happens if we

00:25:45.680 figure out, you know, that naked mole rats have this, this inherent defense against cancer and zero

00:25:52.180 gravity. And so we're like, Oh, we got to study this. And then, but wait, this, this in regular

00:25:57.660 gravity has been studied for 40 years back in the day in the seventies. We have this information.

00:26:02.400 Let's take it to space now. Oh, now it makes it, now we see the value in it. We might not always

00:26:06.860 see the value in what's being done right now or in the past, but it almost sort of, at least it

00:26:12.220 contributes. If you think about it in a way that it contributes to the human house of knowledge,

00:26:15.880 you can't go wrong. Yeah. It might seem ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous, but you know what?

00:26:20.220 It might be useful in some, someday in a way that's just, that might help save us in the long run.

00:26:25.700 With, uh, with finite resources though, how do you determine what is worth pursuing and what you're

00:26:33.660 just not going to pursue? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, unfortunately I would want to,

00:26:39.080 I would want to pursue everything. We have people who have passions in every field, you know, people

00:26:46.600 are, are geeky about their thing. And I love that. I love that people have their niche, you know,

00:26:52.840 and they can, and I wish we could afford, you know, funding, but this takes us back to what we

00:26:58.260 are. What are we? We are a higher thinking primate on this planet. Um, we are warring and not warring

00:27:05.000 by nature, you know, we're territorial. We still have that reptilian portion of our, of our minds that,

00:27:11.000 that counsels fear and territoriality because we, you know, that's just part of what it means to

00:27:15.800 be alive on earth. You know, we still have, we still have these, these, these vestiges or these

00:27:22.260 atavistic traits from our past. Um, and so that's going to be there. So I don't, I don't lie to

00:27:27.420 myself either. I mean, obviously we should make better bad-ass weapons of war because, you know,

00:27:31.940 I was a war fighter for a long time also. And, and, uh, and you know, that's never going to leave

00:27:37.220 me either. But, um, to go back to your question, I don't know. I think, I mean, obviously I'm partial

00:27:42.160 to like my sciences, but I'm also deeply interested in geology and study of rocks and minerals. And I love

00:27:49.040 the idea of the study of chemistry. I want everyone to study. I just wish we had the funding to let

00:27:54.700 people study whatever they wanted. Uh, unfortunately it doesn't work like that. So

00:27:59.780 in order to prioritize, I don't know. I think that's a great question. I don't have an answer.

00:28:05.620 I guess you just have to, you just have to market yourself well, right? That way others say, okay,

00:28:09.660 well, what he's talking about and what he's doing is something we need to explore better.

00:28:13.660 Yeah. And you know what exists in the scientific realm? There's a really good book by, uh,

00:28:17.380 Brian Keating, uh, called losing the Nobel. And, um, it's about the, the, I think it was about the

00:28:24.260 merging black holes, the, uh, gravitational waves. I actually, I don't really remember. I might be

00:28:28.960 mixing up two books, but he talks about all what it, what it means, all the, the deception and all the

00:28:35.500 backstabbing that goes on in, even in the scientific realm. You know, if, if I'm going after a Nobel prize

00:28:41.440 and my, my specific study set and I, I studied chemistry and I veer or biology and I veer sort

00:28:48.800 of into chemistry, instead of handing that information over to the chemistry chemists that

00:28:53.320 I know, I would probably trash it because, you know, science in America is like, is a capitalistic

00:28:59.800 venture. And, and I'm not, I'm not opposed to it. You know, I think it obviously there's,

00:29:04.260 there's merit to it, but it's unfortunate what we lose out of it. If we could only just be like,

00:29:09.560 look, you know, let's pass this information, but. What would be an alternative to that though?

00:29:15.300 You know, how, how, how do you see that working in a way where we could capitalize and, and, and

00:29:20.120 re, uh, uh, fund more of this research and what you're talking about here? Like what would be the

00:29:25.580 alternative? Uh, I think we would have to change the way we, like you said, like the way we fund it,

00:29:31.060 how, who gets funding if there was, but then again, I also don't know, man, I don't, I don't have

00:29:35.120 the answers. I don't sit on these on that side of the, uh, on the decision-making

00:29:39.440 table. Um, so I don't know if it were up to me, I would, obviously there's drawbacks,

00:29:45.980 but I would, I would pass that information. But then again, I've never been in a position where

00:29:49.680 I've, I've, I've been on the cusp of winning a Nobel in one department and then refusing to give

00:29:55.020 it up to another, because that might be the, my competitor might get ahold of it. And that might be

00:29:59.320 what he needs to puzzle to his, the piece to his puzzle that he solves and gets it before me.

00:30:04.880 It's so interesting. It's like we live in this scarcity mindset. You know, I was thinking about

00:30:09.560 this just the other day, you know, you take data and numbers, you're, you're a mathematician and you

00:30:15.260 think, well, this is all objective data. The problem is, is that all of that can be skewed.

00:30:21.500 All of that can be warped. All of that can be misleading. Uh, things can be added. Other little

00:30:27.280 elements can be taken away. And ultimately somebody who's trying to, to look at it objectively can't,

00:30:33.160 because they're not getting all of the data and all of the information.

00:30:36.520 So you're, you're explaining my exact, uh, feeling about statistics when people use statistics,

00:30:44.120 whether it be in an argument for whatever, you already know that it's skewed. You already know

00:30:49.900 because statistics is, I don't know. I studied pure math, um, pure and applied math and number theory.

00:30:56.820 I didn't really study the statistics aspect and probability only because I knew it's,

00:31:01.260 it's such a malleable thing. You know, if I want the outcome to come a certain way,

00:31:05.180 maybe I could change a few words around changing the time of day, the demographic,

00:31:08.600 the location that I do these studies, there's different things I can do. And so I don't really

00:31:12.220 pay attention to statistics. Um, when people, when people use it in an argument and I don't tell

00:31:18.000 them, especially on Twitter, you know, you get 140 characters and you put a statistic out there.

00:31:21.920 You're like, Oh, okay. I'm not sure. I mean, I've, I'm guilty of it too. Look,

00:31:25.920 but it's just funny because you, you see it and you're like, I'm not sure that presents the entire

00:31:31.000 case in 140 characters. Yeah, exactly. How did you, uh, switch from becoming, uh, like you said,

00:31:39.240 a warfighter, you're a, you're a former Navy SEAL over into a NASA diver. Now is, is technically your,

00:31:46.920 your role within NASA, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I work at the neutral buoyancy laboratory.

00:31:51.700 Let me actually, before I get to that question, let me back up. So you knew you always wanted to

00:31:57.180 be in the NASA program. Did you look at the Navy and the SEALs as a route and a path to get there?

00:32:03.120 Actually, you know, working at NASA is just something I think almost every kid has in the

00:32:08.820 back of his head. I never actually really, what I always wanted to be was a SEAL. I, I, a Navy SEAL

00:32:14.200 was what I wanted to be. I was more influenced by Arnold Schwarzenegger and Predator, um, than anything

00:32:20.800 else I watched and rewatched and wanted, you know, wanted to, to experience that, wanted to be that

00:32:26.480 warfighter, uh, here in this, in, in, uh, speaking as an American in my, in this time, I can speak

00:32:35.560 from my own perspective only. Uh, but I feel like a lot of boys growing up have that warfighter

00:32:42.040 mentality, you know, and it might be all over the world also, and most places at least, but I imagine

00:32:47.600 so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we, we've been historically the, the, the fighters and there's

00:32:53.240 a reason for that. And then, you know, there's obvious reason for, for why it was, um, the men

00:32:58.560 and not the women. Um, but you'd think, you'd think it is obvious, but even that is seems to be subject

00:33:05.440 to interpretation and debate these days, but go ahead. There are, there are things that are subject

00:33:10.340 to debate and I always welcome debate, but I mean, you, you cannot argue that the reason women didn't

00:33:18.600 go to war was because of the preservation of the species of your tribe. Women stayed back because

00:33:23.840 they, they, you know, they not just birthed, but they nurtured and reared the children while the men

00:33:29.040 were fighting. And when the men came back, or if they didn't come back, there was still, you know,

00:33:32.980 the hope for a next generation. So that, I mean, you, you can debate it all you want. You can,

00:33:38.120 yeah, you can try all you want, but there, I mean, that's at least one of the solid reasons why

00:33:43.280 men were the, were the fight and not even getting into like physical capability or not even getting

00:33:47.480 into any of this. Um, but that, that's like my go-to. Um, but yeah, so as, you know, as I was

00:33:53.820 growing up, that's, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to, I wanted to be a warfighter. I thought

00:33:58.380 it looked cool. I thought it was, you know, it was my way out. You know, like I said, I also,

00:34:03.540 I grew up in section eight housing. I grew up pretty impoverished. Um, I didn't have anybody

00:34:09.080 in my family that, you know, went to college. Nobody, my brother was the first one to actually

00:34:13.980 finish high school. Um, in fact, my brother's three years old. I mean, he's been working on

00:34:18.280 his bachelor's for about 19 years because he's an executive with Verizon now. And he he's been

00:34:23.780 working on his bachelor's for years, uh, well, like one class at a time. And right now he's in his

00:34:28.820 final class. So he's about to get his bachelor's the second. Yeah. It's it's we're so stoked. I'm

00:34:34.380 so stoked for him. Um, but you know, this, this was my, my inspiration growing up. He, he was a few

00:34:41.180 years ahead of me and actually finished high school and I'd never had anything like that. So I didn't

00:34:46.380 know how I was going to get out of the, get out of, you know, being impoverished and, and the

00:34:51.120 neighborhoods that I was in. Um, but the military was the way out for me. It was an obvious way out.

00:34:55.980 And so, uh, yeah, I joined and I always knew what I want to do. You know, being in middle school and

00:35:01.340 high school, I, I ran track, I ran cross country, I swam, I played lacrosse. I did all the things to

00:35:06.500 prepare me for seals. Cause that's what I knew I was going to do. Yeah. Yeah. Every seal I've talked

00:35:13.280 to has said that, has said that I've always known I wanted to do this. And somebody, it may have been

00:35:17.880 Jocko had mentioned that if you didn't always know that this is what you wanted to be, you would

00:35:23.660 have washed out very, very quickly with the rigorous training. Yep. Yeah. So why leave the

00:35:29.880 teams then? Uh, so I'll be honest, you know, I'm, I'm not one to give cookie cutter responses or, or,

00:35:37.340 or, you know, the, the standard whitewashed responses. I was pretty disheartened on my time

00:35:44.500 in. I, you know, it's something I wanted my whole life. And then I get there and, you know,

00:35:50.320 I got to do some really cool stuff and I'm not saying it was all bad or even mostly bad. There

00:35:55.200 were, there were some awesome times and a lot of the times were awesome, but you know, there was

00:35:59.180 just, I was just kind of brokenhearted in the teams. I wanted to go do more. I wanted to go

00:36:04.200 fight wars. I wanted to go on a fourth deployment. And I had a, uh, a master chief promised me that

00:36:09.460 if I got my master training specialist within one year, it typically takes two years or so,

00:36:14.320 two to three years to get within one year, he would let me go on my second year for my fourth

00:36:18.780 deployment. And I studied so hard. I, we were out, I was out in the desert as an instructor.

00:36:24.560 So I had nothing but time on my downtime. And I studied for hours and hours and hours.

00:36:28.640 And in about a month and a half or two months, I was, I requested the oral board and I took the

00:36:33.600 exam and I crushed it. And I was like, look, this is how serious I am about wanting to go back.

00:36:37.280 And he just straight up lied to me. He was like, and this was, that was just the final straw for me.

00:36:41.280 I was like, I can't deal with this anymore. Like, this is, this is kind of ridiculous. I also

00:36:45.540 dealt with, you know, racism in the seal teams. Um, one of them, one of my biggest,

00:36:49.680 I guess, pet peeves is when I hear other seals talk about, I can't speak for any other unit,

00:36:57.520 but other seals talk about safe, you know, that, that common response that nobody in the teams

00:37:02.760 cares if you're, you know, black or white or Brown, or if you're gay or, you know, you know,

00:37:09.000 it's just, you, you know, you just carry your own weight and do what you got to do.

00:37:11.920 Like, come on, man. I mean, maybe they didn't experience it and I'll give them the benefit

00:37:17.460 of the doubt, but it exists. You know, we have, we have murderers in the seal teams. We have,

00:37:23.940 uh, Kyle Searden, who was the child molester pedophile in the seal teams. We have like

00:37:29.340 thieves, you know, uh, crazy gamblers, thieves in the seal teams. It's just a microcosm of society.

00:37:35.640 It's just, we have all of the same problems, just like every other unit does. So to hide

00:37:40.300 about this, to hide this fact is just dumb. So when, when I hear people say that, I kind of just

00:37:46.240 roll my eyes. Although I never pulled the race card when I was in the teams, because I know that

00:37:49.980 would have meant like, it would have made matters worse. I imagine. Yeah. Oh, real bad. So I never,

00:37:55.300 I never, I wouldn't even dare to do it, but I'm just not going to lie to myself and I'm not going to

00:37:59.340 lie to anyone when they ask. So that, that stuff did exist, um, when I was in and, um, you know,

00:38:06.180 people just, not everybody, just a small few, uh, small group of people didn't like me. And,

00:38:11.980 you know, they, they tried to make my, my experience hell and they succeeded for, for a small portion

00:38:16.740 of my time in. And, you know, these, these small heartbreaks after heartbreaks, I'm like, dude,

00:38:21.140 I just want to be a warfighter. You know, like I wasn't incapable. I was like, you know,

00:38:25.780 I was crushing everybody in the teams and, and PT scores and, and, you know, and O course times

00:38:31.660 and all the things. And I was a sniper and I was, so that became a problem within my first platoon

00:38:37.100 being a sniper comms guy, J tech. I did, I did all these things. I was fortunate. Um, and so that

00:38:44.440 all of a sudden meant that I had an attitude problem, even though I didn't talk, you know,

00:38:49.260 even though I didn't really say much as a new guy, people misinterpreted that as, as attitude or

00:38:53.880 arrogance or something like that. Is that what you're saying? Okay. Yeah. So, and then we would

00:38:57.660 go to like shooting schools and I would actually out shoot, not just them, but the instructor staff

00:39:02.840 at the shooting schools. And that meant I got hazed for it. That meant I had an attitude problem.

00:39:08.100 And I'm, I'm telling you, man, I like, I didn't even say things and I would just get like,

00:39:12.280 Hey, it was dumb, dude. It was, it was so dumb. But fortunately after I left my first platoon,

00:39:17.900 um, and I did my second platoon and I did my third deployment. And then as an instructor,

00:39:22.300 it wasn't, it wasn't anywhere near as bad, you know, it was, it wasn't even bad,

00:39:26.320 but there was still other incidences that was like, you know what, this is, this is dumb. I don't.

00:39:31.380 And so what I, what I found in myself was, and this goes back to our, the first conversation,

00:39:37.240 how we started, I found that I was slowly chipping away at my wonderment and my curiosity and my

00:39:46.320 happiness. And I was so afraid of that. And I wanted to do something. I wanted to get out,

00:39:51.760 you know, and, uh, you know, I, I think, and I've mentioned this before, I think when you exist in

00:39:59.060 a, in a, in a career type that forces you to study the seedier underbelly of human society,

00:40:08.340 when you study the bad and look at the bad as if you're like, let's say a police officer or an FBI

00:40:14.200 agent who studies like, you know, like child sex rings or whatever, some of the worst things you

00:40:19.820 can think of. If you study this year after year, it tends to wear down on your positive perspective

00:40:25.020 and, and it chips away at, at that wonderment. Um, and I was afraid of that. And I saw everybody

00:40:31.780 that I was around 25, 20 years in 29 years in, they were all seemingly bitter, not all,

00:40:37.920 but most were seemingly bitter as if they had let it get to them. Um, and I saw myself going that way

00:40:42.880 too. And I, I got scared, you know, I was like, this is not really what I want. I don't want to

00:40:48.880 exist like this men time out real quick on that conversation. We'll get back to it here in a

00:40:54.820 minute, but I do want to announce something. Uh, you've likely heard of the philosophy of stoicism.

00:40:59.780 He probably even read Marcus Aurelius, his book meditations or, uh, Ryan holidays. The obstacle is

00:41:05.720 the way ego is the enemy and stillness is the key. Uh, and if you're interested in incorporating

00:41:10.980 the teachings of the ancient Stoics in your life, I want to invite you to join the iron council as

00:41:16.960 that is what we're going to be talking about for the entire month of November stoicism.

00:41:21.520 We've got all the tools and the resources to take a concept and a philosophy and actually

00:41:27.220 implement it in your life for better results in your marriage, your career, every facet of life.

00:41:31.580 You know, we don't want to just talk about what it means to be a Stoic. We want to apply it for

00:41:35.440 the betterment of ourselves and others. And as I've applied Stoicism in my own life, I used to be

00:41:40.140 somebody who was emotional at times. And, uh, I let things get the better of me. And ultimately I

00:41:46.760 was very, very ineffective in the way that I led my family and business and clients and everybody

00:41:51.160 else that I felt called and compelled to lead. But Stoicism has played a tremendous, tremendous

00:41:55.820 role in helping me develop a level of, uh, emotional intelligence and clarity and focus and drive and

00:42:01.700 actually just producing results. So if that's what you're interested in, I imagine you are,

00:42:06.220 and you want to learn more about what we're doing, head to order of man.com slash iron council.

00:42:11.380 Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council, because for the entire month of November,

00:42:15.820 we're going to be talking about Stoicism. You can do that after the show. Uh, for now,

00:42:19.940 we'll get back to my conversation with Mario. I appreciate the perspective. Cause you're right.

00:42:25.920 That's not, that's not at all what I expected. And it's not at all what, what I would think most

00:42:30.400 people would say, but it makes a lot of sense, you know, as far as, Oh, I think it takes a different

00:42:36.160 kind of human being and I won't say bad or good, just a different kind of human being to be able to

00:42:41.340 explore that world, to be able to be integrated into that negativity and the hostility and the

00:42:46.440 violence. And I imagine they probably have, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Um, maybe even a bit

00:42:52.920 of a propensity to go that way. If it's left unchecked more so than, than maybe the majority of

00:42:58.160 the population, I think the same thing. I think I do. I totally agree with you. I have,

00:43:03.820 I've always said, and it's a common trope in the seal teams that we are all criminals that just

00:43:09.920 happen to fall on this side of the fence while walking on the fence instead of that side.

00:43:13.440 And so, you know, there's a, so I agree completely. It takes a certain type of person. And,

00:43:18.900 and I guess for me, I was for a little while, that person until I wasn't until I was like, okay,

00:43:26.600 until I was actually able to take a step back and see this picture of who I was. And I, you know,

00:43:33.480 I was like, all right, you know, um, I don't think this is where I need to be anymore. You know, I did

00:43:38.860 this thing. I, I, I achieved what I wanted to achieve. I, you know, I got to deploy with, with some

00:43:45.160 of the most elite teams of the, in the U S military. Um, and, uh, I was good, you know, I was like,

00:43:53.320 how do I retain, how do I go back and retain that childhood wonder? How do I ensure that I'm

00:43:58.920 a joy to be around? Cause you know, when you're in the seal teams or in any unit, you know, you only

00:44:04.200 ever really want to hang out with other people of that mindset. Sure. For me, I was real bad. I

00:44:09.640 didn't want to, I didn't want civilian friends. I had nothing in common with them. Cause I fell into

00:44:14.260 that for, for a little while. I only wanted to hang out with other operators. Did you think you were,

00:44:19.780 were above those individuals or different or like, what was it about civilians in your mind

00:44:26.060 that you're like, you know, I, I'm not going to hang out with them. Is it just the relatability?

00:44:29.720 Yeah. I think, I don't think I was above them. I was just definitely a relatability issue. I could,

00:44:33.860 I could sit on the couch. One of my favorite parts of, of one of my favorite things about other

00:44:38.300 seals and other just operators and, and, you know, military in general is I could legit invite,

00:44:45.100 you know, Johnny over and me and Johnny can sit here who I served with and we can sit here and

00:44:52.840 watch TV and like hang out and listen to music or watch random YouTube videos and not talk and just

00:44:59.220 like not talk and hang out. And just, just being there with each other is like, is a cool, is cool.

00:45:05.120 It's we're there, you know, we're there and that's what it means to be there. Um, but I found that when I

00:45:10.480 hung out with civilians, it was like, you had to be doing something. You had to be talking about

00:45:15.420 something. You had to be like, you know, and, and sometimes it just gets uncomfortable or it got

00:45:21.100 uncomfortable or you're like, yeah, sure. Like, come on, man. Let's, can we just chill? We don't

00:45:25.240 have to talk. Yeah. The awkward silence, right? Yeah. Well, to them, it would be awkward, you know,

00:45:30.720 for, for like, you got like, you know, dudes who've been through some shit and sitting around,

00:45:35.600 that's, that's where it's at. And not only, not only shit, but been through shit together.

00:45:41.600 Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, each other at that point. Yeah. I mean, whether it's on, on the

00:45:46.300 smaller side of the spectrum with it's, with it being sports, for example, or in military combat on

00:45:52.520 the more extreme side of the spectrum, you go through those battles together and there's just,

00:45:58.480 there's a connection that's hard to describe, explain, or even verbalize. Yeah. So, okay. So you,

00:46:04.780 so you leave the seals and then, and then what do you do from there? You, you, you start applying

00:46:09.480 with NASA. I know you had some connections. You did some other things. Okay. So I, I, I fell into

00:46:14.860 a funk, man. I fell into a real dark place because I had no direction in my life. And so I, I got out

00:46:21.600 of the Navy and within three days I was in Vegas at EDC, the electric daisy carnival, doing every drug you

00:46:30.000 can imagine. Really? Just like, I lost it. I fell into this downward spiral and yeah. And, and so

00:46:37.420 that, that became my life for about a little over a year. I did nothing. I didn't work. I didn't do

00:46:42.960 anything. I just partied nonstop. Cause I had, like I said, I had no direction. And like, like we were

00:46:52.140 talking about earlier, I had, I didn't really feel relevant. So one of the issues that I see that

00:46:57.900 with military specifically is we tend in the military, you're tend to be over medicated on the

00:47:04.340 back end instead of prepared on the front end. So if you have like your time in the military,

00:47:10.680 you build bridges to the outside world in the, in the form of going to the bars, you know,

00:47:16.000 and getting shit face drunk. And these are bridges to the outside world. So when your military life

00:47:21.660 falls away, what are the bridges that remain going to the bars, getting shit face drunk? You know,

00:47:26.100 these, these, you know, I feel like if you, if we could foster within the military, you know, uh,

00:47:32.860 anything there are, there are Jocko is a perfect example. Jocko was my boss back when I was an

00:47:38.100 instructor. Um, Jocko was like a black belt in jujitsu. He's the, he practiced jujitsu. He was

00:47:43.620 like a guitar player who would go to shows. He would like, you know, if you're a businessman,

00:47:47.480 start a business on the side and explore that, go to school, take classes, do all these,

00:47:51.380 build all these bridges to the outside world. So that when this one falls off,

00:47:55.660 you're connected to the outside world. So many different ways that you're, you have relevancy

00:48:00.680 and, and that relevancy isn't in drinking and bars because that's where I was, right. That's,

00:48:06.560 right. That's, that's where I was. And so I fell into that trap where I'm grasping for relevancy.

00:48:11.220 And the only place I can find it is, Hey, there go my team guy buddies at the bar. Still,

00:48:14.720 I'm going to go back to that. Why did I even bother getting out? So, um, you know,

00:48:19.840 I got into bar fights, I got arrested for like battery and at a bar and fortunately I got all

00:48:25.560 the charges dropped. Yeah. I was going to say, cause that probably would affect your

00:48:29.460 NASA employment. I imagine. Right. Okay. Yeah, it would. But, uh, I, I got all the charges dropped

00:48:34.680 and, and fortunately there was footage of, of it. And you know, the, the management came down and like,

00:48:40.160 you know, they spoke on my behalf when I was getting booked because the guy was harassing me and

00:48:45.360 following me around. And you know how we do, we don't, I don't do chest bumping. I don't do like,

00:48:50.720 if you're just within my reach, I'm just going to hit you. I'm not going to wait. And I told this

00:48:55.500 guy, I was like, look, you can say what you want about me and do whatever. Just stay at least two

00:49:00.360 arm, two arm lengths away. And if you know, that's all my, all I'm going to tell you. And as soon as he

00:49:04.600 broke that, I hit it, I didn't even hit him hard. I just hit, I hit him hard enough to split his

00:49:08.220 mouth open. And so there's like blood gushing out of everywhere. So, and then I ended up getting

00:49:12.280 arrested. So my life is like, you know, I had to do this like internal interrogation,

00:49:20.320 this reflection, what I want to do. And I realized that I was really sick of the person that I was,

00:49:25.600 you know, I went to the VA, I told them, I had already gone to several psychiatrists.

00:49:30.340 I went to the VA, which I, I have nothing but praise for. I think the VA for me was awesome.

00:49:36.580 And I told them, look, I have an issue and I have, I want to have it studied or I want to see

00:49:42.220 what I can do. And so I was like, I don't have survivor's guilt. I don't have like depression

00:49:46.280 like this concerning that I have rage. I have a real rage. And they were like, their response was,

00:49:53.900 well, you know, rage is a, is an unwanted emotion that spikes in certain times. So it totally

00:49:58.960 qualifies because at first I was like, I don't think I belong here or whatever. And they were

00:50:02.680 like, no, you definitely do. So I did this 52 week long prolonged exposure therapy with them.

00:50:07.500 And I was on the, you know, I was on this, this program where, where we, you know, we, we kind

00:50:15.560 of just went through some of the worst times I experienced in the military over and over and

00:50:20.720 over again until we had the exposure. Yeah. Okay. Some of the worst stuff until I had like a

00:50:25.040 breakthrough, like four or five months in and, um, you know, it ended up really helping me. And then,

00:50:31.620 so that coupled with like me deciding I, I met with every time I would, you know, prior to even

00:50:38.800 going to this, I would go get black, blackout drunk. And then I'd go home and I'd always play

00:50:45.340 astronomy DVDs. I had a ton of like, I would always watch astronomy stuff. And one, like two different

00:50:50.820 friends at similar times were like, why don't you just go to school for astronomy? Like, this is what

00:50:56.660 you always do. You, you have this telescope in your, in your living room. All you ever do,

00:51:01.460 you know, when you're alone is watch astronomy stuff. And it never occurred to me that I could

00:51:04.980 go to school. Remember, I barely graduated high school. I had like a 1.7 GPA. I didn't know how

00:51:10.680 to study. I didn't know anything. I know I had no influence. So I didn't know, uh, that I could be a

00:51:16.920 good student since I had no experience in it. Um, especially in math, I was terrified. I still use my

00:51:23.460 fingers for, for multiplication division and addition terrifies me. I hate when you hand me

00:51:28.800 the check. I don't know if that inspires me or terrifies me knowing that, that you're doing all

00:51:33.040 the things with NASA. No. So the thing is, is that even, even my, my, uh, higher level calculus

00:51:39.900 professors or my, you know, combinatorics or even the higher, higher level math, we, you know,

00:51:45.620 the professors would do the math on the board and they'd, they'd show all the, you know, the work and

00:51:49.480 everything. And then there'd be a problem on the side. It'd be like eight times 16 plus four. And

00:51:54.120 they, they, they'd ask the students, they'd be like, somebody go ahead and verify this for me

00:51:57.360 because we're all bad at it. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. We equate that with math and arithmetic

00:52:02.660 is hard. I, I mean, like I say, and I hate when people hand me the check at a, at a, at dinner

00:52:08.300 because they, you know, they know I have a degree in pure math and I'm like, that's way harder than

00:52:12.520 anything that I've studied. I'm still like this. How does it differentiate? What is it? What's the

00:52:16.060 difference? Uh, I mean, I don't know. That's a really good question. I think, uh, conceptual,

00:52:22.560 I think math, you know, there's, there's various ways to do, to solve. So like word problems at

00:52:29.020 the most basic level, is that what we're talking about here? I mean, I know that's drastically

00:52:33.720 oversimplified, but for, for difficulties or for simplicity, I'm just saying is you're, you're

00:52:38.240 talking about concepts versus the actual math itself, right? Oh, so like in, in abstract algebra,

00:52:45.200 which is sure the hardest math that I've ever taken, um, the hardest year of math, um, you're,

00:52:50.580 you're actually working on symmetries of shapes, you know? So you're, you're, you're thinking of

00:52:55.980 math in terms of like, you know, turns or reflections of the sim of the shape, the symmetrical values

00:53:02.580 of each side. So you're, you're thinking in different ways. You're not just like, what's eight

00:53:06.960 times six plus 42 minus divided by, and then you're like, it might also just be because that's my,

00:53:14.040 that was my introduction to math, you know, was frustration from the beginning. Yeah. So that

00:53:19.460 could, that could very well be it. That's interesting. I hadn't, I hadn't considered

00:53:23.240 that, but I guess everybody's brain just works differently, right? Some people can see it in a

00:53:28.300 linear fashion and can see those numbers and it paints a picture for them and they can figure it

00:53:32.920 out. And other people, you know, like you may need to experience it, see it, feel it, turn it,

00:53:37.880 et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, exactly. So it's, it's everybody, like you said, everybody experiences it

00:53:42.940 differently. Yeah. So anyway, my, I was, I was, it was suggested to me that I go study it. And so I

00:53:48.720 signed up for school and that's when my, my journey began, you know, I started, I started doing what I,

00:53:56.800 you know, I have this own, my own personal philosophy on how I meet my goal. And I have this

00:54:05.580 goal posts in the distance, you know, they're these posts out in the, in the far distance. I'm,

00:54:10.160 I'm this three dimensional cubic figure and I have to push this figure to that goal.

00:54:16.380 You know, I want to be a seal. That's what I want to do. Or, or I've always used this kind of method.

00:54:21.020 I want to be good at math. So how do I get this to that? Well, there's so much friction because it's

00:54:27.880 flat on all these edges. So I got to start chipping away and sanding and, and chiseling and turn it into

00:54:32.920 a sphere and roll that sphere. So it's less friction. It's easy. And what are those edges that I'm

00:54:36.940 chipping away? Well, those are all the distractions that I can list. I don't want to alcohol. I stopped

00:54:42.300 drinking for two years. I didn't touch any booze. I didn't, I, I gave up all the friends. I didn't,

00:54:46.940 I didn't step into a, uh, a bar. I refused to go into a bar. You know, I, I just gave up all the

00:54:53.260 things that I noticed that were taking my attention away from what I wanted to achieve. And, uh, you know,

00:54:59.940 in some aspects it can be detrimental, you know, like I, I did forego my health. I stopped working out

00:55:06.200 for a while and that, that was bad. I recognize that that was bad, but, but, you know, I was able

00:55:11.460 to get there faster. Um, um, so yeah, I got rid of all those things and I decided to like, you know,

00:55:21.100 I decided to, to change my life, you know, and, and, you know, this is where from hearing you talk,

00:55:27.860 this is where you and I, I, and maybe a lot of your listeners are going to disagree, um, with the way

00:55:34.060 we see the world, but I don't think humans have the free will that we convince ourselves that we

00:55:42.560 have, you know, I, uh, to me, human free will for the most part is an illusion. And I think we are

00:55:50.360 a product of a series of prior causes in our lives. Um, and.

00:55:56.120 But do you think, I want to riff on that for a second. Um, do you think, and I, and I've heard

00:56:00.880 this argument before, and I think we, we probably do differ on this. Do you think that the fact that

00:56:06.620 we don't understand, let's just assume we are a product of these predetermined destinies for lack

00:56:11.960 of a better term. Does it make it free will because we don't understand what those formulas are,

00:56:19.220 right? We don't understand what those destinies are, those scripts that we're playing out to me,

00:56:24.360 that makes it free will because we don't have the understanding of what's being played out.

00:56:28.700 Uh, I don't think so because then we would have to be presented with, with every potential possible

00:56:36.560 scenario. And then, and then us, we would have to be able to choose that, which we would want to go,

00:56:43.480 but we, we are incapable of choosing that, which we are incapable of thinking of. So how do we choose

00:56:48.960 that, which does not occur to us to choose? You know, we're only so, so, and the reason I say this

00:56:54.600 is because I remember when I was a little kid, um, I remember bringing math homework home and my

00:57:00.020 sister or my older cousin, somebody older in my family was like, you know, none of us in this family

00:57:05.000 are good at math. None of us are, are, are very good. None of us have whatever. And this becomes your

00:57:11.160 reality. You allow it to kind of like to, to burrow itself deep into your, into who you are.

00:57:17.600 And then, you know, as I, as I, you know, grew later in life, one of the things that I,

00:57:23.360 that I believe, I think one of the things that makes us, you know, incredible species is that we,

00:57:30.600 if we're courageous enough, we, we move towards those things that are difficult. We move towards

00:57:35.260 those things that are scary. Um, uh, knowing that it's, it's scary. Um, so is that not a,

00:57:41.320 is that then not a necessarily a choice? I mean, that's, that's still a choice that you're making,

00:57:46.560 right. Moving into what's scary, moving into the unknown. I mean, that's the type of person that I

00:57:52.540 am, be it genetically or whatever. And only because the introduction of other people's writings of the

00:57:58.220 notion of free will. Now I'm not a determinist. I'm not a compatibilist. I don't believe in,

00:58:02.000 in what's in the future is, is predetermined because I don't go any further past the present

00:58:06.940 moment. I say where we are, we've been pushed by how we were raised, our genetics, all, you know,

00:58:12.000 all things that we actually had no control, no free will in electing. Sure. Yeah. Um, I agree.

00:58:18.640 I agree with that. So, you know, having read this, I, I wondered why something like mathematics and

00:58:25.420 physics and science, why that scared, always scared me. And you know, it's, it's, it's really

00:58:30.520 been this eight, nine year long journey of self-discovery, this attempt at trying to find out

00:58:35.440 and learn why I am the way that I am. And why am I so scared of, of math and why? Oh, well,

00:58:40.580 I've been able to identify about seven different things in these, all these years about these,

00:58:46.440 these prior causes, these tipping points. And one of them was my sister, like predator was,

00:58:51.040 you know, my infatuation with seal. Right. That was definitely that, that was definitely that

00:58:54.920 tipping point. And, and my sister saying like, I don't know if it was like my cousin or somebody,

00:59:00.460 um, saying that we were all bad at math, this, this family.

00:59:03.800 So you just bought into that idea for so long. It sounds like.

00:59:07.620 Yeah. But, but identifying it after all these years and saying, no, that's BS. Like that's BS.

00:59:13.260 That's not going to grab hold as my reality anymore. Uh, I, I now, now that I've, you know,

00:59:18.100 have been influenced by reading this other stuff, I'm going to go back and erase that and rewrite

00:59:23.520 a new path in life. One in which I am good at math. And that meant I had to start at, and this is,

00:59:30.120 I'm not even embarrassed to say I had to start at what was called math 038, which was a math class

00:59:35.940 that was study habits, pre, pre algebra and study habits. And then like how to open a book. And then

00:59:43.460 like, man, I had to go with math 38, math 46, math, like 58, math 76, math 96. Uh, then I had to go to

00:59:52.160 one Oh four. And then I got to like pre calculus. Then after pre calculus seven class later, I started

00:59:59.040 calculus as eighth class. I got into real mathematics and it was because man, I didn't

01:00:04.980 know anything. I had no idea, but like I was saying before how I removed distractions, I bought,

01:00:11.460 like, I put white whiteboards all over my walls in my apartment. I bought a bunch of dry race markers

01:00:17.560 and set them at every window at every glass door and the mirrors in the bathroom. When I was brushing

01:00:21.520 my teeth, I'd write formula. So every day I stood, I woke up and I saw it in my face. I bought a glass

01:00:27.040 desk to which I taped white poster board underneath so I could do all my math on it. And then when I

01:00:33.020 got tired, I would stand up with my book and go to my whiteboards. So there was no excuse. And then

01:00:37.480 I bought a bunch of like the great courses, DVDs, and I put my kitchen table in front of my television

01:00:43.040 and I've acted like I was a student in that class. And I would like just take notes and do it.

01:00:47.600 Yeah. I had to. Interesting. Yeah. Because it's, it was so, it's always been so hard for me to learn

01:00:52.420 because I never knew how to study or learn. So I had to give it this a hundred percent because it

01:00:58.280 scared me, you know? And so I wanted to attack it. I wanted to approach it and I wanted to crush it

01:01:03.060 or at least try. Sure. Yeah. So then, so you, I mean, obviously we're just like making it seem like

01:01:10.400 it was so seamless and I imagine it was not, but, but you get done with schooling and right. You,

01:01:16.860 you, you completely completed before you were introduced to, I think in a previous conversation

01:01:23.160 you and I had, we, you, you had mentioned that you knew somebody or, or, or had some sort of,

01:01:27.820 Oh, you're talking about here at NASA. Yes, correct. So at NASA was a bit of a different route. After I

01:01:33.180 graduated from Columbia and New York city, I have a buddy who was the head who for a few years was the

01:01:39.060 chief of the astronaut office, the head astronaut, Chris Cassidy. He's a seal also like a bronze star

01:01:44.300 recipient, you know, uh, saw some stuff in Afghanistan back in the early 2000, one of the

01:01:49.500 first, uh, he was old team three guy. Well, he ended up getting accepted the astronaut class in like 2004,

01:01:57.380 2005, I think. And, um, he's just another, you know, another, he was the second seal astronaut.

01:02:03.280 Um, and so he invited me down to come stay at his place last summer in August and me and a couple of

01:02:11.100 buddies of mine came down. We stayed, you know, right after I graduated, we came down, I packed up

01:02:16.860 all my stuff. In fact, and I moved to Austin after New York city on a whim, no real plan, really just

01:02:21.760 no job, just fine. It's good. Let's do it. Yeah. Uh, so I lived there for only about three months

01:02:28.340 before I decided to like come work at NASA. Um, and, uh, well, I mean, I always knew I wanted to

01:02:34.820 work. I mean, I knew I wanted to work at NASA for a few years prior, but yeah, uh, I also had to get,

01:02:40.000 have to get another, I have to finish a graduate degree here. And so when I stayed over at, at Chris's

01:02:44.820 house, I told him, you know, I want to study an engineering graduate degree here at university of

01:02:49.580 Houston. And he's like, okay, well, you know, if you want a job here, we are, this is like a, a really

01:02:54.980 simple job because it's not a take home job. You don't take work home. You do the job at NASA

01:03:01.140 there and at the neutral buoyancy lab. And then you, you know, you're done for the day. So this

01:03:05.320 is, that's where I'm at now. I got hired, uh, unfortunate for a lot of other guys that have

01:03:10.500 been applying for that job for four years. I got hired, I got hired within a month of actually

01:03:17.340 applying of showing interest of the job. I was like, Oh, that's amazing. You mean all I would do

01:03:21.920 here is like train astronauts to do spacewalks. And they're like, yeah, well you can, I I'm moving

01:03:26.780 up. So slowly I'll move into the environmental control systems engineering. So it's not just

01:03:30.780 diving. We do a lot more than, than diving, but that's, that's one of, one of the primary jobs

01:03:35.940 that we do. Um, but yeah, so that's, that's actually how I got into NASA. Uh, so now that I'm

01:03:42.160 here and about to enroll into the university of Houston's graduate program, hopefully in the

01:03:48.400 spring and, uh, crush this, this graduate degree in time for the next astronaut class to be picked

01:03:53.620 and hopefully throw my hat in to that contention. And hopefully I can get picked. If not, I still

01:03:59.420 have time to apply for the next one. Uh, and then how, how is it every, do you said, it seems to me

01:04:04.600 you said every five years, is that right? So it's, it's been kind of fluctuating. Okay. It used to be

01:04:09.720 every few years, like every two to three years. Uh, it lately it's been every four years. There's

01:04:15.420 chatter about it taking a little bit longer for this next class, but then after the next class,

01:04:19.580 maybe having them roll through a lot, a lot more, uh, frequently. Um, is that we just due to do the,

01:04:26.760 the demand of astronauts relative to how many are still with NASA or like, how does that get

01:04:32.140 determined? Well, you gotta, you gotta consider the vehicles that we have that are launching from,

01:04:38.000 you know, continental us. We have none that are launching people. We have cargo that launches from

01:04:43.840 here every, you know, all the time. Yeah. But right now we rent out space in the Russian Soyuz

01:04:49.360 and that's costing us like $80 million a seat. Wow. Uh, but right now we have Boeing, we have

01:04:55.920 SpaceX, we have, um, you know, the Starliner, we have Virgin Galactic, we have blue origin. We have

01:05:01.660 a bunch who are, who are up and coming some further along than others that, that we're going to be able

01:05:06.840 to, to go back up. And so when that returns to the U S remember, we haven't been able to launch

01:05:12.520 people from the U S since 2011, since the retirement of the shuttle. So, uh, yeah, I didn't

01:05:17.880 know that. Yeah. Well, we, yeah, when we went, when we retired the shuttle, it's strange to me

01:05:23.020 that some people in conversations that I've gotten with think NASA was shut down when, but it's really,

01:05:31.060 it's like, it's not shut down. It was just the shuttle program that was just the pro. Yeah,

01:05:34.080 exactly. Sure. Which I think should have probably been shut down in the nineties. I think it was,

01:05:38.880 why do you say that? Well, because, uh, the way I like to, the way I like to explain it is

01:05:45.340 imagine you and I, the year is like 18, you know, 1880. And you and I are, are, are sitting on the

01:05:54.220 shore, the East coast. And we, we, we have to send packages over to the UK and we're, we're sending

01:05:59.440 them by ship every day. They're taking three months to get there, three months to get back three months

01:06:03.960 to get there, three months to get back. You and I, we invent a vehicle that actually flies.

01:06:11.180 It's an airplane. We'd call it an airplane and it flies and it can now fly instead of months,

01:06:16.420 a few hours to the UK. And we can send our packages that way. Right. Uh, we're like a UPS

01:06:21.580 of the back in the day. So we, we do that for a few years, but it's, it's really costly because

01:06:26.400 we're the ones that are, that are building the plane. We're the ones that are flying the plane.

01:06:29.420 We're the ones that are doing all the stuff for the plane. A few years pass and the smaller up

01:06:34.680 and coming companies kind of take, you know, take flight also. They are, they are able to build

01:06:40.480 planes. So they start flying. And so what becomes more advantageous us to keep going or us to just

01:06:45.800 rent out cargo room in theirs. And we can worry about that next big leap. We build bigger planes

01:06:50.400 that not just fly us to the UK, but fly us around the world. So we, we, we now worry about that large

01:06:56.180 leap. So that's what NASA did instead of worrying about take using this shuttle, which costs billions

01:07:01.420 of dollars just to go from, you know, from Florida to low earth orbit, 250 miles, something we've

01:07:06.900 already done before, right? Tons of times. Yeah. Uh, let's, let's rent out space. Let's let, you know,

01:07:11.980 SpaceX grow and all these people will rent out the space for that. And we're going to worry about the

01:07:16.240 next big thing. So at NASA, we have the SLS, the space launch system and the Orion capsule.

01:07:20.680 And with that, we're going to go revisit the moon, Mars asteroids. We're going to make those

01:07:25.400 farther leaps. Um, so I think it was about time we had used the shuttle for how many years it's

01:07:31.040 decades. It was in use. I think we could have diverted funds and started worrying about the

01:07:35.920 next big leap earlier, but Hey, I'm not mad, you know? Yeah. So no, that makes a lot of sense.

01:07:42.320 It's just about efficiencies and economies of scale and everything else. I mean, it makes it,

01:07:46.060 makes a ton of sense to me. So what, so when, when do we anticipate going back to the moon

01:07:50.940 and eventually getting to Mars? So right now we're looking at 2024 for the moon.

01:07:55.420 Okay. Um, with the Artemis, Artemis program. Okay. Um, I'm, I'm hopeful. I'm hoping it all

01:08:02.300 goes smoothly. We're going to have the first female up there, which is, which is awesome.

01:08:06.140 Some of these, the crew has already been selected for that and is already training. Okay.

01:08:10.400 No, no. I mean, we are training for, you know, a lot of moons to I'm on the right now, the Orion

01:08:17.560 recovery team that, uh, that has been testing a lot of the collar systems and the recovery devices

01:08:24.060 for the Orion out, out to sea. Cause one of the things we can do at the neutral buoyancy lab is we

01:08:28.400 can lower the water level and we have these two giant wave balls that can mimic sea state

01:08:33.120 conditions. You know, they have these gyros in them. And so we, we put the capsule, the mock capsule

01:08:38.280 in there and we, we test what it's like. If it capsizes, how will we get it upright? Uh, how will

01:08:43.180 we safely get them out if one of them's unconscious? So we're, it's not always like I'm diving at,

01:08:47.900 at the neutral buoyancy lab. We're always taking these data points that we're studying, even like

01:08:51.300 something as little as the degree of, uh, of opening that the capsule door is that it, does it work

01:08:57.560 better this way? You know, is the, are there pinch points for the hands here? Can I step on this?

01:09:02.400 We're, we're, we're taking note of all these little things that you might not even realize.

01:09:08.280 Um, so we're doing, we're always doing a lot of stuff for the moon, but in 2024, we should be

01:09:12.560 back on the moon, which is super exciting. Uh, I have my own, like my own lottery, my own gamble on

01:09:20.360 who, who the, the first astronauts are going to be going to be. I mean, they're, they're very heavily

01:09:25.260 pushing for the first there. Obviously there's going to be guys that go there also, but who the first

01:09:29.740 female is. And some of these female astronauts are just studs. I mean, my God. Yeah. They're like,

01:09:35.600 man, I, I'm hoping like it's, you know, I have a few in mind that are like my favorite because

01:09:41.140 they're, they're beasts in the suit. They're just smart. You will never know. These people

01:09:46.200 are astronauts if you were at a barbecue with them. Cause they're, that's one of the first

01:09:50.000 things I noticed is they're just people. You know, I had my housewarming party here and I had like,

01:09:55.260 I was trying to do a competition, how many people I can fit in my hot tub. And I had 24.

01:09:59.140 Well, I'm pretty good. Yeah. Three of them were astronauts. You know, there's, there's a couple

01:10:03.100 of doctors. They're all NASA people. And, uh, and they're all just like regular people who like to

01:10:07.560 like do regular things, you know? Um, but some of these, I can't, I'm stoked. Anyway, the, uh,

01:10:13.660 Mars mission will come later though. Unfortunately, that's going to be a little while. That'll be

01:10:18.000 late 2030s, I guess. I'm, I'm guessing for, for a manned mission to Mars and, and, and men landing

01:10:25.900 on Mars. Is that what you're saying? Foot on the ground. Yep. That to me is just amazing. I'm it's,

01:10:31.320 I don't believe it's impossible. I just think it's a matter of time, but it's amazing to think about.

01:10:35.900 Yeah, that that's it. You know, there's, there's, if there, I, in fact, if you go to a NASA spinoff

01:10:42.680 website, I think if you can Google NASA spinoffs, technological spinoffs, you can see what occurs

01:10:49.100 anytime we have to move into a new frontier as humans that we've never been before new tools,

01:10:54.680 new technologies. If you go to a, if you go to a hospital, you can see like the, like, uh, like

01:11:00.180 laser eye surgery, the mammogram machine, the defibrillator, the water purifiers, all these

01:11:05.220 things were as a direct result of us as humans trying to explore the moon back in the day or

01:11:10.360 whatever. So these spinoffs, our cordless power drill, for example, that is because of, you know,

01:11:16.060 NASA, we had, we had to move into a new frontier. That new frontier requires new technology. It requires

01:11:21.360 new innovation. And so that trickle down effect of technology benefits all of us.

01:11:26.780 Absolutely. Yeah. When we, when we go to Mars, we have to figure out a way to condense food to,

01:11:30.920 um, to how, you know, to how do we, uh, how do we rehydrate food for the long run for the long

01:11:37.720 term? And, and these things can affect more impoverished countries. We can use these cheap

01:11:42.500 3d printers to print this food type that's sustainable, you know, that can help people live.

01:11:48.580 And this, this might help, you know, as it gets passed down. So there it's, this stuff is exciting

01:11:53.760 all the way around, not just like going to the moon, but here back on earth too.

01:11:58.460 Yeah, man. Or sorry, Mars. No, I, yeah, no, it's pretty amazing. I'm excited just hearing about it.

01:12:03.600 And I imagine just being in, in the operations day to day is, I mean, what a cool job, what a cool

01:12:08.660 opportunity you have to do some of these things. Right on, man. Stoked. Well, Mario, I appreciate the

01:12:13.880 conversation. I, I, I know we're bumping up against time here a little bit. I do want to ask you a

01:12:18.020 couple of additional questions. Great. The first one I told you was, what does it mean to be a man?

01:12:24.700 Ah, this is a difficult question. It is. Because, um, like I was saying earlier, I think I have

01:12:31.080 a modern American understanding of what it means to be a man, but that can only be applied to me,

01:12:37.460 you know, what I understand to be a man. Um, like I was saying, I think even the most objective things

01:12:43.920 are still subjective because we're a human species. So for me, what it means to be a man

01:12:52.700 as it applies to me, and I'm not saying it applies to anyone else. I actually don't care what most

01:12:59.120 people have their own definitions of what it means to be a man. That's great. I love individualism.

01:13:04.600 I like that people get to define what things mean to them, especially meaning most importantly. Um,

01:13:10.200 but also what something like what it takes means to be a man. And for me, I think, um, like I was

01:13:16.160 saying earlier, understanding that, you know, there are scary things out there, be courageous and move

01:13:22.740 towards those difficult things, move towards those things that are scary. Um, I think being a man means

01:13:28.860 it can mean a lot of things, but it also means being ready and willing to take the fight to that wolf at

01:13:34.860 the door, you know, if, when the time comes, you know, stand it, stand up and, and, and, you know, be

01:13:41.560 ready. I think, uh, I mean, I can go on all day about what it, what it takes to be a man. Um, but, um, I

01:13:50.760 don't know. I think that's one of the beauties. I think we all get to define it ourselves. Uh, you

01:13:55.440 know, right on, man. I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, how do we, uh, how do we connect with

01:14:00.740 you, learn more about what you're doing and then follow your, uh, your path and your journey?

01:14:05.100 Awesome. So I I'm actually only on Instagram. I don't really have any other social media. I,

01:14:09.700 in fact, I do have Twitter and Twitter is almost all NASA stuff. So if you're, if you just want to

01:14:15.420 see retweets of NASA stuff, that's, I don't really have a personal presence there. It's, it's B that's

01:14:20.780 where I go to read news about, you know, other NASA facilities. Sure. But, uh, I do have my personal

01:14:26.380 Instagram, which is just my first name, last name one eight six, which is Mario Romero one eight six one

01:14:32.640 eight six is not my buds class number. Everybody always says to me, you look too young to be class

01:14:36.720 one eight six. It's not, it's just the first three digits of the speed of light in miles per second.

01:14:42.200 Uh, 186,282.4 miles per second. Um, and then I have, uh, my astronomy Instagram, which is, uh,

01:14:51.840 all astronomy, like just a W E astronomy. Um, and on that, I kind of just share a lot of

01:14:57.320 astrophotography. I kind of mix it in with a little bit of philosophy down in the caption. Um, and

01:15:04.360 sometimes I'll, I'll, I'll add amplifying information on the image that you're seeing itself, or it's

01:15:11.140 just all astronomy stuff. There's not nothing real personal on there except for the quotations that I

01:15:15.780 suss out for myself. Um, but yeah, my, my personal one is private. I mean, but if anybody, if, as long as

01:15:21.960 I see that you're like a real person and not a bot, I'm probably going to confirm that you're a

01:15:26.440 request, I get bombarded with fake accounts all the time. And I, I'm not a fan of having fake

01:15:31.740 followers and, and, uh, yeah, so I generally try to screen who I allow, but yeah, that's where you

01:15:37.620 can find me. Right on, man. We'll sync it all up. I really appreciate you. I want to thank you for

01:15:41.820 taking some time and sharing and going down some different paths that we don't normally explore and

01:15:47.400 talk about. I think that's valuable. I think the guys will get a lot of value from that. And I

01:15:50.780 appreciate what you're doing, not only within your service to this country, but, uh, your, uh,

01:15:56.900 your pursuits with, uh, becoming an astronaut. I'm really excited for you, man. I'm going to be

01:16:00.860 following your path and, and I hope that things will work out. Um, I imagine they will based on

01:16:05.360 the little I know about you and I'm excited for your future, brother. Thanks for joining us, man.

01:16:08.780 Yeah. Thank you for having me. This has been awesome.

01:16:12.520 Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Mario Romero. Uh, I enjoyed that one. Uh, it was

01:16:17.400 interesting to hear his perspective and his failures and setbacks and successes and everything

01:16:21.900 that he's done. Uh, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Uh, hopefully

01:16:26.880 it will inspire you to make something more out of your life and know that, you know, a lot of these

01:16:31.440 guys who I do have on the podcast, including Mario, uh, come from humble beginnings and don't

01:16:37.020 have everything completely figured out. Uh, they are on a very similar path. Some of them are just

01:16:41.720 further down the path than we are. And, uh, I want this to be something that's very relatable to you

01:16:46.100 that you can find yourself in, in a way. And that's what these conversations are all about.

01:16:50.340 And that's why they're so powerful is because we see these guys who we admire and respect from a

01:16:54.180 distance and from afar. And we see some of their faults and their shortcomings and how they've

01:16:57.780 been able to accomplish in spite of those and overcome some of those things. So I hope this one

01:17:02.900 was valuable for you. I know it certainly was for me. Make sure you connect with Mario on, uh,

01:17:07.640 Instagram and connect with me there as well. And also, if you would, if you want to see the video

01:17:12.880 of this, uh, you can go to youtube.com slash order of man, youtube.com slash order of man.

01:17:19.160 And you can listen to us. And you also get to see us. If that is something that you want to do

01:17:24.160 again, youtube.com slash order of man. Uh, and if you do, uh, make sure you subscribe. We've got,

01:17:29.400 I believe 85, 86,000 YouTube subscribers. As of right now, I have told you for the past several

01:17:35.240 weeks, it's my goal to get to a hundred thousand initially. And we're very, very close. And I

01:17:41.060 appreciate the support over there. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you today. Appreciate

01:17:44.680 again, your support in the mission of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. Uh, we're going to be

01:17:49.000 uniting a bunch of men across the planet, uh, to enlist in the cause of reclaiming what it means

01:17:54.240 to be a man. All right, guys, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:17:59.000 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:18:03.380 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:18:11.060 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - November 05, 2019

The Path from Navy SEAL to NASA Astronaut ｜ MARIO ROMERO

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