Order of Man - September 24, 2025


The Power of Intention, High-Income Skills, and Overcoming Financial Hurdles ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING


Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

181.13895

Word count

9,148

Sentence count

702

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the Order of Men podcast, we discuss the pros and cons of starting a 401k in your 30s. Is it better to start a Roth 401k when your company matches your contributions or should you wait until you're in your thirties?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 I think you either have to create a cool experience or extreme convenience.
00:00:07.560 To me, those are the two things.
00:00:09.120 If you can make somebody's life easier or you can make it a really cool experience,
00:00:14.100 then that's what you would do if you didn't want to compete on price alone.
00:00:20.960 Kip, what's up, man?
00:00:21.860 It's weird to be recording on a Friday morning.
00:00:24.620 We're usually doing Monday morning, but here we are on Friday.
00:00:26.980 So we're not even going to be able to talk about the crazy stuff that happens over the weekend
00:00:32.620 when everybody's kind of tapped out and doing their own thing.
00:00:37.180 Yeah.
00:00:37.760 Instead, we'll talk about the crazy stuff that happened during the week,
00:00:40.160 which might be closer from a timeline perspective.
00:00:44.040 So I don't know.
00:00:44.920 Maybe we're good.
00:00:45.440 Yeah, we'll see.
00:00:46.160 We'll see how it goes.
00:00:47.480 Well, I'm looking forward to it.
00:00:49.020 This is part two.
00:00:50.040 There was a lot of good questions based on our Ask Me Anything last week regarding money and debt
00:00:55.760 and investing and saving and everything else, budgeting.
00:00:58.440 So I figured we'd take the remainder of the questions for this week.
00:01:02.500 And then the following week, we'll go ahead and move into a new realm and a new topic.
00:01:06.580 I'm curious what you think that topic should be.
00:01:09.240 Do you have anything in mind or anything in particular?
00:01:14.600 No, I don't.
00:01:15.540 Well, I mean, I'd want to give some thought to it, but...
00:01:18.420 And the guys listening might have some ideas too.
00:01:20.340 So if you have ideas, you can do one of two things to share those ideas with us.
00:01:24.520 Go to facebook.com slash groups slash order of men.
00:01:29.080 Sign up there.
00:01:30.360 I just re-recorded an intro video because the intro video that was on there was from five
00:01:35.320 or six years ago.
00:01:36.320 And I look completely different.
00:01:38.460 And so there's some updated videos there.
00:01:40.760 But then you can ask your question or give us suggestions.
00:01:43.420 Or you can follow me on Instagram over at Brian Mickler or order of men.
00:01:46.940 Either one, you'll find us there.
00:01:48.120 And then you shoot me a message and we'll take your ideas into consideration.
00:01:53.100 Submit your ideas.
00:01:54.380 I love it.
00:01:55.080 Hey, man.
00:01:55.400 I love it.
00:01:56.040 We're short on time.
00:01:57.100 So we'll kind of rapid fire this a little bit today.
00:01:59.360 Let's do it.
00:01:59.620 So let's just jump right into it.
00:02:01.680 So Mike Cole, his question, is it worth investing 401k Roth in your 30s when your company match
00:02:08.820 still gets taxed at the end because of those contributions aren't matched tax-free and neither
00:02:14.500 is the growth?
00:02:15.480 Or should you just do traditional and let both grow at the untaxed amount and get the
00:02:21.020 tax advantage each year?
00:02:23.540 Hopefully you followed all that.
00:02:24.840 I think I followed it.
00:02:25.980 The way that I'm understanding is that he can contribute to a Roth 401k, but his employer
00:02:31.780 contributions are going to be basically a traditional IRA for all intents and purposes.
00:02:37.400 And what I would say to that is, yes, you should do the Roth portion and whatever they're going 0.90
00:02:45.200 to do.
00:02:45.320 Right.
00:02:45.820 So if it, let's just say for the sake of argument, they match $5,000 and, but it's going to be
00:02:52.300 taxed at 20%.
00:02:53.980 So now that's $4,000, that's still $4,000 that you would not have had.
00:02:59.740 And the growth on that $4,000 over the next, I think he said he was 30.
00:03:03.660 So the next 35 years potentially.
00:03:06.400 So definitely.
00:03:07.720 And then what I would do, and I think we talked about this on last week's podcast, that if
00:03:12.220 you do contribute the match, let's say they'll match up to 5%, but you want to save 10% of
00:03:17.320 your money, put 5% into the Roth 401k.
00:03:21.300 Actually, you can do all 10% into the Roth since it's a Roth.
00:03:25.120 If it was a traditional 401k, I'd say do 5,000 there and then 5,000 separately and independently.
00:03:30.740 You could probably still make a case for having a Roth IRA outside of your Roth 401k because
00:03:37.920 of access to different index funds and better investment vehicles.
00:03:41.480 But I'll let you make that decision.
00:03:45.840 Why would Mike bring up the fact that he's in his thirties?
00:03:48.880 Why is that a variable in his question, you think?
00:03:51.380 Well, with 401ks, and we talked about this last week, there's four factors that every
00:03:56.120 person needs to consider in an investment vehicle.
00:03:58.400 So one is potential rate of return.
00:04:01.240 Two is safety.
00:04:03.620 Three is liquidity.
00:04:05.360 And four is taxation.
00:04:07.500 So what Mike is asking about has to do with liquidity and taxation.
00:04:11.480 He's in his thirties.
00:04:12.840 It's a long time before he can pull money out of that account without facing not only
00:04:17.180 taxes on the money, but potential penalty taxes as well.
00:04:21.420 So that's why it is important to do this in the proper order.
00:04:24.440 And you do want to have some liquid savings.
00:04:26.960 If the transmission on the vehicle goes out and you need to pay five grand or whatever it
00:04:30.720 is these days for a transmission, uh, so that you don't have to pull out money out of your
00:04:35.680 401k, get hit with the taxes, get hit with the penalties and dip into your retirement savings.
00:04:42.000 Got it.
00:04:42.660 Got it.
00:04:43.480 All right.
00:04:44.080 Lonnie, uh, McIntyre.
00:04:46.000 What are the biggest money moves someone can make who's 48 and has nothing saved for retirement?
00:04:53.720 Start saving.
00:04:54.900 Like that's, I mean, that's the reality of it.
00:04:57.340 I don't, if you work with a don't wait, yeah, don't wait.
00:05:00.660 And you know what I've seen a lot of people do is they'll wait until they can put away
00:05:05.380 as much as they want to put away on a monthly basis before they even start at all.
00:05:09.400 So if somebody says, well, I'd really like to be in the position to save 10,000 a year,
00:05:13.060 they'll either do 10,000 or nothing.
00:05:16.280 And I don't ever suggest that you obviously want to make sure that I hope it's obvious
00:05:21.760 that even if you can only save a hundred dollars a month, that that's better than zero.
00:05:25.960 And not only that, you're building the habit of investing money.
00:05:29.280 And it is a habit because that's money that you won't be able to spend today.
00:05:33.480 So you need to get over that short term, immediate gratification and start,
00:05:38.960 training yourself to put money away before you start spending any of it.
00:05:44.120 So start, I mean, that's, that's the solution to put it on hyper speed and hyper drive.
00:05:50.100 If your employer has a matching program, you definitely want to take advantage of that
00:05:54.740 because if you're saving 5% of your income and they're matching, all of a sudden that
00:05:59.840 $5,000 turns into $10,000, that's a hundred percent rate of return overnight.
00:06:04.860 So make sure you take advantage of that opportunity.
00:06:09.260 Look for tax savings type vehicles.
00:06:12.120 And one thing that I would consider doing too is at 48, you don't have a lot of time.
00:06:17.500 I mean, you've got about 20 years until you hit that traditional retirement age.
00:06:22.480 And you might have to work beyond that if you don't start saving now,
00:06:25.500 but there might be side work that you can do.
00:06:28.480 And let's just say for the sake of argument, you're making a hundred thousand a year and
00:06:34.080 you can make 20 grand on the side doing a side business, whether it's coaching or consulting
00:06:41.800 or a skillset like firearms training or training jujitsu or teaching people how to paint or build
00:06:47.620 websites or photography where you might make, I don't know, 10, 15, $20,000 on the side.
00:06:53.560 If I, if I was going to go that route, I would take a large percentage.
00:06:57.620 I'm talking 50, 60, 70% of that side income.
00:07:01.040 And I would start investing that into tax-free vehicles.
00:07:05.340 Got it.
00:07:06.040 Got it.
00:07:06.540 I'm going to steal something that you said last week, which was prudence, right?
00:07:12.600 And I really, that was my key takeaway from the last AMA is, is the question is not, can
00:07:18.900 we afford it?
00:07:19.700 Or is this a great opportunity?
00:07:21.600 Should we do it?
00:07:22.320 That's not the question.
00:07:23.220 The question, is it prudent?
00:07:25.380 And so maybe a thought based upon last week's conversation to Lonnie is stop doing things
00:07:31.560 that aren't prudent, right?
00:07:34.020 So start saving, start investing.
00:07:35.820 And if you're not being prudent, start being prudent, cut costs that's unnecessary, those
00:07:41.420 other things, and start operating with a balanced, you know, a balanced sheet, if you want to use
00:07:49.240 that term.
00:07:49.660 Yeah.
00:07:50.440 A budget.
00:07:50.840 But there was a balanced budget.
00:07:54.080 That's better.
00:07:54.360 Yeah.
00:07:54.480 There was a, there was a, like a Saturday Night Live skit that Steve Martin, or yeah, Steve
00:07:59.940 Martin did years and years ago.
00:08:01.680 And it was something like, stop buying things you can't afford.
00:08:07.020 And it was him and he comes in to consult this couple and they're like, well, we don't have
00:08:11.360 any money.
00:08:11.860 Can we buy it?
00:08:12.420 He's like, no, don't spend money.
00:08:15.040 You don't have to spend or don't buy things you can't afford.
00:08:17.500 And then the guy, the husband's like, well, what if we really want the car, but we don't
00:08:23.500 have the money now, but we put it on a credit card and then we pay it off later.
00:08:27.680 And the guy's like, no, don't buy things you can't afford.
00:08:31.300 And they try to keep finding these like loopholes and ways to do it.
00:08:34.760 But I was introduced to a concept when it comes to budgeting that has proven valuable
00:08:39.180 to me.
00:08:40.320 It's a little counterintuitive when you first hear it, but you should spend every single
00:08:44.960 dollar that you make.
00:08:46.300 You should spend every single dollar that you make.
00:08:48.700 And let me explain.
00:08:50.200 You should be intentional about how you're deploying those dollars.
00:08:54.380 So I look at it to myself when I invest and save my money, I'm spending that money and
00:09:00.480 I have it accounted for, whether it's 500 or a thousand or 10,000 or a hundred thousand
00:09:05.500 dollar purchase or investment in a business or real estate.
00:09:09.200 But I'm spending every dollar, meaning I know where everything goes, exactly where it should
00:09:14.300 go at any given time.
00:09:15.740 My grandma was, and my mom subsequently was notorious for saying a place for everything 0.91
00:09:21.960 and everything in its place.
00:09:23.340 And they were talking about the order of the house, that everything should be put away and
00:09:27.720 have a place to go.
00:09:28.980 Money's no different.
00:09:30.480 And so if you're not aware of how you're spending your money, you could potentially
00:09:36.040 be blowing, let's just say five or $10 a day on gas station, diet Cokes and snacks, $10
00:09:44.720 a day, that's 70 bucks.
00:09:47.840 Let's say it's only five days a week.
00:09:49.300 So let's say it's 50, that's $200 a month.
00:09:51.940 That's $2,500 a year that you could be investing, deploying, earning a rate of return on.
00:09:59.760 So now's the time to start getting serious.
00:10:02.320 Even if it means cutting out the diet Coke run in the morning, that's something I should
00:10:07.860 be aware of personally.
00:10:10.420 Yeah.
00:10:11.000 Well, and power of intentionality, man, we could grab that principle and apply it to all
00:10:16.260 areas of life, right?
00:10:17.300 What are you doing?
00:10:18.120 Are you being intentional?
00:10:19.320 Are you being influenced by other people?
00:10:21.800 Is it an active choice that you're identifying is the best interest?
00:10:24.880 Is it the top priority items?
00:10:26.300 Like, that's really what that principle is, is be intentional with how you're spending
00:10:30.460 money.
00:10:30.720 Because when we're not intentional with our time and money, what happens for, you know
00:10:34.580 it, I have no time.
00:10:36.440 Oh, I have no money.
00:10:38.340 No, it's because we're not managing it.
00:10:40.720 Well, right.
00:10:41.100 Not being good stewards.
00:10:42.660 Well, and you can, Jeremy Fulmer has this great.
00:10:44.640 I was just going to say, you can be sure that if you're not intentional with your money,
00:10:47.880 somebody else is willing to be intentional with your money for you because every corporate
00:10:53.640 and it's not even devious in nature.
00:10:56.480 Every company out there is after your dollars and they're going to, you know, if it's done
00:11:00.420 correctly, they're going to exchange a comparable service or good.
00:11:04.220 But if you're not going to be intentional about it, then any, including this organization
00:11:08.720 will say, we'll spend it with us.
00:11:10.680 Time.
00:11:12.000 So somebody is going to be intentional with your money.
00:11:15.340 It ought to be you.
00:11:17.600 Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:19.440 Jeremy Fulmer's question.
00:11:20.960 I love this because, well, I've done this actually.
00:11:23.960 So I'm interested to see what your recommendations are.
00:11:28.000 His question, what's your guys' take on scaling your rental portfolio by taking equity out of
00:11:34.140 your current property versus letting it pay itself off?
00:11:38.740 I would, I would do that with just a healthy dose of caution.
00:11:43.520 Because you don't want to overextend yourself.
00:11:46.960 For example.
00:11:47.720 And then you lose it all.
00:11:48.560 Right.
00:11:48.780 And now it becomes a problem.
00:11:50.020 But let's just, let's take a scenario.
00:11:52.660 Let's say you've got a property and the mortgage, the payment on the property is,
00:11:58.900 let's say it's $1,500 a month.
00:12:03.000 Um, and right now you're collecting $1,800 in monthly rental income.
00:12:10.040 So you think, oh, I'm, I'm ahead.
00:12:12.260 I'm doing pretty good.
00:12:13.400 And now you go take out a loan and then that's going to add $500 more to your payment.
00:12:18.700 So now you have a $2,000 a month mortgage payment and you're collecting $1,800.
00:12:24.320 That property.
00:12:24.780 And even by the way, even if you're even, let's say, let's say you're paying 2000, but
00:12:30.100 you're collecting 2000, you're also playing with fire because the dishwasher is going to
00:12:35.520 break.
00:12:35.920 The air conditioner is not going to work.
00:12:37.760 The carpets are going to need to be replaced.
00:12:40.000 And if you aren't in between renters, there might be times where you don't have a renter
00:12:44.180 at all to your point, because you just lost somebody and it's going to take you six,
00:12:48.960 60 days to fill, or at least to collect a rent check.
00:12:52.600 So you should, you shouldn't just be breaking even, you should be cash flowing 20 to 30%
00:13:00.180 in addition to whatever your mortgage is.
00:13:02.540 But I don't, I don't hate that idea.
00:13:04.880 Just make sure it's a prudent idea and it isn't going to put you in a bind and jeopardize
00:13:11.120 both properties that you now have.
00:13:14.300 Yeah.
00:13:14.900 Yeah.
00:13:15.360 I like it.
00:13:16.100 I like it.
00:13:16.620 All right.
00:13:16.880 I feel good.
00:13:17.740 I did good.
00:13:18.620 I think so.
00:13:19.640 I mean, again, but you know, there's another consideration here too.
00:13:23.060 Is what do you, what do you owe on your home?
00:13:25.420 Are you upside down or is there actual equity?
00:13:27.740 Now there has to be some equity because nobody's going to lend against a property that has no
00:13:31.580 equity.
00:13:32.360 But you don't want to lend it so much that now you're in the hole after you take, now that
00:13:36.540 there's equity against it right now.
00:13:38.160 Yeah.
00:13:38.900 Or, or if property values go down, which is, could potentially happen.
00:13:43.220 Now that wouldn't necessarily be too big of an issue because you're not selling it.
00:13:48.260 But if you had to sell it because you got into a financial hardship, now all of a sudden
00:13:52.540 you're in the hole 20, 30, 40, 50 grand.
00:13:55.380 How are you going to do that?
00:13:57.820 So there's some things to consider.
00:13:59.820 And then you're going to buy a property and with where property values are right now, you
00:14:05.360 could be buying at a very high time in the market.
00:14:07.480 So you've got this other rental unit now, which could provide the income for you, but consider
00:14:12.640 what could happen if those property values now go down.
00:14:15.620 So there is some factors to consider.
00:14:18.140 It's not a no, but it's do it with some, some intelligence and some prudence behind it.
00:14:27.420 Yeah.
00:14:29.160 Mike's story here lately.
00:14:31.080 B I've been contemplating closing my 401k at work and buying a decent amount of land.
00:14:36.300 I'm only 37 and I do have an IRA.
00:14:40.320 What is your opinion on doing this?
00:14:42.160 I'm already, I already own one home and I thought about turning it into a rental.
00:14:48.880 Well, I can't answer that question because I don't know what you mean by buying land.
00:14:53.920 I mean, I know what it means to buy land, but I don't know what your purpose for the land
00:14:57.740 is.
00:14:58.080 Is it to develop it?
00:14:59.280 Is it to live on it?
00:15:00.320 Is it to create more income in some way?
00:15:04.420 I don't know.
00:15:05.500 And how much more investment above and beyond the land would you have to put in?
00:15:10.200 Right.
00:15:10.540 And how does that, and, and it probably depends on how large that 401k is.
00:15:13.980 Yeah.
00:15:14.900 So lots of questions.
00:15:16.720 What I would consider is what is the purpose for your 401k?
00:15:22.700 Potential rate of return and earnings down the road when you retire.
00:15:26.600 If you can take money out of your 401k and pay the taxes.
00:15:32.440 And by the way, cause you're younger, I'm assuming pay the penalty taxes, which don't
00:15:37.080 quote me.
00:15:37.440 It was 10% when 37.
00:15:39.380 Yeah.
00:15:39.720 So you're going to pay penalties of an additional 10% on top of your ordinary income tax bracket.
00:15:45.020 And by the way, if you take that money out, your income bracket might go up.
00:15:48.660 So you need to talk with an accountant, right?
00:15:50.800 Cause if you're in a 25% tax bracket, depending how much you pull out, you may now be in a 28%
00:15:55.820 tax bracket.
00:15:56.520 And so it's not 25, it's 28 plus the additional 10% penalties.
00:16:01.360 So what is the purpose of that investment vehicle?
00:16:03.620 And then can you replicate that in a different investment vehicle that's designed to do the
00:16:09.040 same thing?
00:16:09.640 So for example, if a great piece of property came up as a rental, a potential rental, um,
00:16:17.900 I might pull some out, eat the taxes, eat the penalties and put it into that investment
00:16:24.660 property because there's a good, strong likelihood that that will generate revenue to a greater
00:16:29.940 degree than my 401k would.
00:16:31.680 And that's why you would make that decision.
00:16:33.960 If you're going to do it in a, into a different type of vehicle, like I just want to own raw
00:16:38.560 land.
00:16:39.900 There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
00:16:41.760 As long as you have the bucket of retirement set up somewhere else.
00:16:46.400 And he did say he has an IRA somewhere else.
00:16:49.160 So yeah, there's some factors to consider.
00:16:53.240 Got it.
00:16:54.480 Uh, Jeff Kessler's question is a little bit different.
00:16:56.680 I like it though.
00:16:57.360 It's in, it's in the same vein.
00:16:58.800 I think it's, it, it passes the test.
00:17:02.020 I think, um, I own a meat processing shop in Southern Colorado as a new business owner.
00:17:07.740 What are a few hurdles that I can expect to experience?
00:17:11.480 How did you overcome them trying to think outside the box?
00:17:16.400 Well, um, meat processing.
00:17:20.540 Okay.
00:17:20.780 So there's, there's some things to consider here.
00:17:23.860 Some are financial, some are different aspects of the business.
00:17:26.700 Um, marketing is going to be a huge component of that.
00:17:30.480 Um, but when it comes to the financial ramifications, I would really be worried about rising costs.
00:17:36.720 That's a thing that a lot of people don't take into consideration.
00:17:39.280 The, the commercial place that you're renting, assuming you are, the cost of that is going
00:17:45.320 to go up.
00:17:46.140 Um, the cost of, of meat is likely going to go up.
00:17:49.340 The cost of new equipment and servicing that new equipment is likely going to go up.
00:17:53.680 And so, yes, your prices could go up with that as well, but can, can the market demand that
00:18:00.940 kind of pricing?
00:18:01.640 And if the answer is no, then people will find the cheapest source of protein they possibly
00:18:07.680 can.
00:18:08.060 And it might not be you.
00:18:09.580 So you have to, you have to really think about what could potentially happen down the road,
00:18:16.800 anticipate that, build your pricing out correctly.
00:18:19.920 And then that's why marketing is so important is because if done correctly, you can charge
00:18:25.440 a premium for your products.
00:18:27.540 In this case for the meat that you're processing, because people know, like, and trust you.
00:18:33.300 And if they don't know, like, and trust you, then the only decision they have to buy a product
00:18:37.740 is cost.
00:18:38.720 That's it.
00:18:39.580 Cost and quality.
00:18:40.880 And most people are just assuming that all the quality is going to be about the same.
00:18:44.240 So really they're just going off of cost.
00:18:46.420 But if you create an experience for your people, you know, I think about some of these, um,
00:18:53.280 you know, shops that like you used to see, um, in bigger cities where, or even small towns
00:19:00.440 where you walked in and it was a family owned business and they've got all kinds of different
00:19:05.540 meats and people are coming in and they're regulars and everybody knows each other's name.
00:19:09.360 And they're having a good time and they're laughing with each other.
00:19:12.540 Like those are the kinds of things that you want to do.
00:19:15.180 But the other thing that you have to compete with now too is organizations that are shipping
00:19:20.920 meat.
00:19:21.320 So there's another vein that you have to consider is how do I get this to consumers who are
00:19:27.380 not in the area?
00:19:28.540 You know, I, I have a food service that I, uh, get every single week.
00:19:33.320 It's called hello fresh.
00:19:34.640 And they send me all the ingredients for my meals, including the protein.
00:19:39.400 And it's very inexpensive.
00:19:41.320 So that's another factor that you're going to need to consider when it comes to pricing,
00:19:46.900 marketing, et cetera, et cetera.
00:19:49.800 Yeah, I, I totally agree.
00:19:51.380 And, and part of this, uh, Jeff comes down to your unique selling proposition, right?
00:19:56.820 It's, it's, it's, it's not enough for you to be like, well, I'm a meat processing plant.
00:20:00.100 And then it's a race to the bottom with you trying to be cheaper.
00:20:04.140 So like figure that out.
00:20:05.860 Um, my dad was a meat processor, a butcher for most of my life.
00:20:11.440 And, uh, just some thoughts.
00:20:14.080 Like my dad had the Sorenson jerky recipe and it was his version.
00:20:22.460 It was his flavor of it and it, there was so much demand for his jerky that half the
00:20:29.360 meat processing plant was a giant smoker to make all the jerky orders that people were
00:20:35.480 ordering.
00:20:36.940 And, and we, it was crazy, man.
00:20:39.340 Like we would have people come in and they're just like jerky the whole thing.
00:20:43.300 And you're like, what?
00:20:44.700 They're like, yeah, all jerky.
00:20:46.460 And you're like, holy crap.
00:20:48.080 That's a lot of jerky.
00:20:49.020 But his margins on the jerky were way higher, right?
00:20:53.860 Than just doing typical butchering meat cuts, right?
00:20:57.140 And processing.
00:20:58.280 So figure out, you know, where's your play?
00:21:01.180 What's a, what's a, and I don't know, Jeff, you're probably not looking for ideas, but
00:21:04.680 I'm going to give them anyway, is look at the shift of things, right?
00:21:09.760 Here's another idea.
00:21:10.620 Everyone loves getting their own cow lately.
00:21:13.920 That's a thing, right?
00:21:15.480 Like that's what I do now.
00:21:17.140 Most people I know are looking to, to get, buy a grass fed cow, split it with someone
00:21:22.560 else and have some, some good meat and not buy it from the store.
00:21:27.100 So how do you capitalize on that?
00:21:28.700 Why don't you coordinate that shit?
00:21:30.760 You figure out where the livestock is.
00:21:34.040 Broker it.
00:21:34.620 You have a partner and then you start selling half cows.
00:21:38.740 Does it make sense?
00:21:39.900 And, and you, you know, and then you have some margin and you have some built in loyalty
00:21:44.020 around what you're doing.
00:21:44.940 So there's a lot of things, but look beyond on the meat processing plant and the raise
00:21:51.120 to the bottom of trying to beat out people on pricing.
00:21:54.080 No, no, no.
00:21:54.380 You beat them out on being superior in other ways.
00:21:57.120 And then that way you're not, um, looking at hurting your margin of profit just by trying
00:22:03.780 to be cheaper.
00:22:04.360 If that makes sense.
00:22:05.640 Well, and, and with the cow thing, if you go in on half cow with people, now you're double
00:22:10.060 dipping in a way because you're making money on that.
00:22:12.260 And then you're all, where are they going to get the cow butchered with you clearly?
00:22:16.380 So now you get paid on that as well.
00:22:18.640 And then the other thing to consider, I don't know if butchers do this or not, but you might
00:22:23.080 have a really cool recipe for bone broth.
00:22:26.300 And all of a sudden you're taking what most people used to just think was scraps and you're,
00:22:32.320 you're breaking down those bones.
00:22:33.980 You're, you're, and you're making bone broth that you now sell in five gallon paint buckets.
00:22:39.900 You know what I mean?
00:22:40.480 Like, I don't know.
00:22:40.960 I'm just thinking of different ways that you might just add a little bit more to your bottom
00:22:45.540 line, um, by being a little bit more creative.
00:22:48.580 And we're in such a health craze right now that I think if you said, Hey, and you communicated
00:22:53.420 the value of bone broth, not wasting animals, um, the health benefits of it.
00:22:57.840 I think there's all sorts of people who would love to buy a ton of bone broth from you.
00:23:03.740 Totally.
00:23:04.400 Well, and, and maybe some people want to be part of the process, right?
00:23:07.700 Buy your cow and, and we'll, we'll, you can help slaughter it with us. 0.75
00:23:11.380 Yeah.
00:23:12.060 That'd be interesting.
00:23:12.940 Because, you know, and they, they want to, they want to take the shot, right?
00:23:16.720 Or whatever.
00:23:17.320 Right.
00:23:17.700 So there's, there's lots of things, your own rub.
00:23:20.660 I mean, I, I can, I can go on for days of, of ideas and concepts around this just because
00:23:25.080 it's, it's a world that I, I lived in for, for most of my life.
00:23:28.100 So yeah, very cool though.
00:23:29.620 And way to think out the box, right.
00:23:31.060 For Jeff to be like, Hey, how do I, uh, just identify myself being different, right.
00:23:35.940 Then my competition and be successful.
00:23:37.580 So I think you either have to create a cool experience or extreme convenience that to me,
00:23:45.960 those are the two things.
00:23:46.880 If you can make somebody's life easier, uh, or you can make it a really cool experience,
00:23:51.860 then that's what you would do if you didn't want to compete on price alone.
00:23:57.280 Totally.
00:23:57.840 Well, quick example to that.
00:23:59.800 My mom hated this, but, um, you know how this is.
00:24:05.780 You go a hunt, you're two miles or two hours up in the mountains and you have a deer that
00:24:12.080 needs to be cooled.
00:24:14.860 What are you doing?
00:24:15.700 If, if, if you're, it's not convenient for you to drop in at 2am in the morning to drop
00:24:20.180 off an elk.
00:24:21.080 Yeah.
00:24:22.160 Right.
00:24:22.420 In some shops, there's hours of operation and then they expect you to figure it out until
00:24:26.880 they open.
00:24:27.500 Right.
00:24:27.980 We weren't that way.
00:24:29.400 Right.
00:24:29.800 My dad would, we would take deer in, in the middle of the night, you know, depending on,
00:24:34.060 you know, and he would give out a cell phone number.
00:24:35.660 That means something, right?
00:24:36.920 Like if, if Ryan, if you were my butcher and I knew that if I get this kill and it's 4am
00:24:42.820 in the morning, that I can text you and say, Hey man, I got one coming in.
00:24:45.700 And you're like, awesome.
00:24:46.640 We'll be in a minute.
00:24:47.440 Yep.
00:24:48.000 That's, that means something not, not just convenient.
00:24:51.300 It means something, right?
00:24:53.460 It goes above and beyond.
00:24:54.880 And there's a relationship that gets formed at that level of convenience and service.
00:24:59.340 Well, and there's another thing that you can do too with the convenience is you can
00:25:03.260 charge a premium for convenience.
00:25:04.600 So if I come in there and you're like, Oh, I can't get to it for a week.
00:25:08.180 I, there should be an option where you say, unless you pay 15% additional, and then I'll
00:25:15.860 put yours to the front of the line.
00:25:17.640 And people, there's people who might scoff at that a little bit, but you know what?
00:25:23.040 There's plenty of people would be like, you know what?
00:25:24.780 I'm willing to pay a little bit more in order to have it in the next day or two.
00:25:28.080 I had one of my taxidermy guys do that one time on a sheep that I killed.
00:25:32.020 I brought it in and he's like, Hey, it's going to be like 45 days before I can even
00:25:37.560 start this thing.
00:25:38.480 And I'm like, well, how do we speed up that process?
00:25:40.540 He's like, if you pay me a hundred dollars extra and pay me cash right now, I'll put
00:25:46.000 yours in the front of the line.
00:25:47.040 Done.
00:25:47.920 I'll do that.
00:25:48.480 I have no problem with that.
00:25:49.520 Yeah.
00:25:49.700 So people will pay extra for certain conveniences that you make available to them.
00:25:55.240 Yeah.
00:25:55.640 It's when you're sneaky with it, that, that it doesn't work out well, just be communicate
00:25:59.800 up front and then you're solid and you should communicate it with everybody.
00:26:02.480 So Kip, if you come in, I could, I would tell you, I would say, Hey Kip, you know, in
00:26:07.000 order to do what you want, it's a thousand dollars.
00:26:09.620 Just so you know, there's, if you want it to be faster, it's $1,100 or 1200 or 50, I don't
00:26:16.120 know, whatever the number is.
00:26:17.520 And you might say, Oh no, I'm good with it taking two or three weeks.
00:26:20.500 Cool.
00:26:20.940 No problem.
00:26:21.340 I just wanted you to know that option's available.
00:26:23.560 Yeah.
00:26:24.620 Prime overnight shipping or standard.
00:26:26.360 Right.
00:26:26.620 You decide.
00:26:27.160 Yeah.
00:26:27.360 No big deal.
00:26:28.200 Yeah.
00:26:28.740 Yeah.
00:26:29.100 I love it.
00:26:29.740 And Jeff, by the way, we, we, we would sell hides.
00:26:32.800 We'd sell those hides.
00:26:34.260 So no one gives a crap about their hides.
00:26:36.420 If they brought their deer in with hides on, we benefited from that high.
00:26:41.360 Yeah.
00:26:41.880 Right.
00:26:42.220 So yeah.
00:26:43.200 Think through it.
00:26:43.740 You got lots of options.
00:26:45.260 All right.
00:26:46.140 Jonathan Webster, uh, Charlie Munger once said something to affect.
00:26:51.340 Of getting to 100,000, it's the hardest, but the rest gets easier after that.
00:26:56.660 I'd like you, if you could discuss the learning high income skills, uh, to learn, earn more
00:27:03.580 roughly than $50 an hour.
00:27:05.820 First off, let me ask you that question.
00:27:07.560 First.
00:27:08.000 Do you agree with that?
00:27:09.200 That the first hundred, hundred thousand is the hardest and, and past that it's easier.
00:27:14.340 I mean, I don't know if that's the number, but in, in theory, of course, because learning
00:27:20.560 the skill to build wealth is harder than having wealth and then already having a skill and
00:27:27.800 being able to do it again.
00:27:29.960 It's easier to replicate something.
00:27:32.240 And show momentum.
00:27:33.000 Right.
00:27:33.380 Yeah.
00:27:33.820 And that's why you always hear the adage, the rich get richer.
00:27:36.580 Well, yeah.
00:27:37.200 Not because they're inherently taking advantage of people.
00:27:39.660 Because they're good at being rich.
00:27:40.260 But because they know how to do it.
00:27:41.360 Yeah.
00:27:42.660 Yeah.
00:27:43.060 They know how to get rich because they've done it.
00:27:44.800 It's like saying, what's, you know, what's the hardest part of jujitsu?
00:27:49.140 Is it the first two years or later?
00:27:51.980 Well, I would say it's probably the first year, maybe even, even the first six months
00:27:56.920 because you're beat up, you're banged up.
00:27:59.040 You don't know what the hell you're doing.
00:28:00.240 Everybody's running circles around you.
00:28:01.740 You're out of shape and you just feel like an embarrassment.
00:28:04.840 And jujitsu doesn't always get easier because it's progressively more challenging, but you start
00:28:09.640 to understand the game and you get better and you improve.
00:28:13.260 And so it's, I think in a lot of ways, it is easier than when you start, just like anything.
00:28:20.680 Yeah.
00:28:21.320 Yeah.
00:28:21.880 Got it.
00:28:22.300 I love that.
00:28:23.480 So anyhow, high learning, learning high income skills.
00:28:28.120 What are these skills?
00:28:30.080 Well, good question.
00:28:31.440 I would say if you can sell, that's a high income skill.
00:28:37.440 If you can sell something, uh, if you can connect and relate with people, that's a skill.
00:28:43.800 What, what I'm, what I want to get at as I'm, as I'm talking about this, it's the things
00:28:47.820 that can't be replaced by technology and robots.
00:28:51.780 Those are going to be the high income skills.
00:28:54.420 So attorney work, for example, I think most people would say attorneys are very knowledgeable.
00:29:00.580 They're educated.
00:29:01.580 Um, but that might just go completely away because if AI can just interpret the law without
00:29:09.940 any subjectivity, that becomes a whole lot easier than hiring an expensive attorney.
00:29:14.640 CPAs are the same way.
00:29:16.660 Financial advisors are the same way.
00:29:18.460 When I was in financial advising, a thing started coming along called robo advisors.
00:29:23.840 And these are the Robin hood apps and the investing apps and the apps that take round up your
00:29:29.520 expenditures and then deposit the extra amount into it.
00:29:32.820 And then automatically diversify your portfolio and all the old time financial advisors scoffed
00:29:38.220 at it and laughed at it.
00:29:40.300 It's like, well, you know, like you can laugh at it or you can get with the times and those
00:29:46.600 guys are no longer in the business or probably suffering and struggling.
00:29:49.500 So what, what if, what should a financial advisor do to not be able to be replaced?
00:29:54.680 Well, his job is not to manage money.
00:29:56.780 A, a, a program, a math program can do that better than a human being can do that.
00:30:02.320 But his job is, should be to manage emotions.
00:30:04.940 So if you're my client, Kip, my job is not to manage the money.
00:30:08.680 I'll just run it through an algorithm.
00:30:10.140 That's what most advisors are doing anyways.
00:30:11.940 They're not picking random stocks and totally, but my job is to manage you.
00:30:16.400 So when you get scared and you're like, I'm going to pull my money out of market because
00:30:21.060 the stock market's crashing, my job is to manage you.
00:30:24.360 And that's a high income skillset.
00:30:27.760 Or when you're eager to put a bunch of money in at the high, my job is to say, whoa, whoa,
00:30:33.340 whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on and manage you. 0.90
00:30:35.820 So anytime you're relating with people.
00:30:38.060 So I would say, um, being able to sell things, uh, being able to network, being able to form
00:30:47.480 connections.
00:30:49.400 These are the type of skills being able to do public speaking.
00:30:53.100 These are the type of skills that I think moving forward are going to be the high income
00:30:56.820 skills because they're not easily replaced by robots or technology.
00:31:01.660 Yeah.
00:31:02.300 Yeah.
00:31:02.720 You know, one of the things you mentioned is connection just to drive that thought home.
00:31:06.620 There was a study that I've referenced over the years and it was the, the top contributing
00:31:14.040 factor that reduced lawsuits for physicians was their bedside manner was likability.
00:31:24.400 Yeah.
00:31:24.940 Of course.
00:31:25.440 Not quality of work, not credentialing screwed up, right?
00:31:30.580 Whether they, they were likable and, and, and it's ironic and it doesn't take much, right?
00:31:36.160 Like I, you know, I've done it consulting, business consulting my entire life.
00:31:39.840 I can't count how many times that you could have a project, meet budget scope, scope, and
00:31:45.520 schedule everything on paper.
00:31:47.460 We did a great job project to South because the relationship with the customer wasn't that
00:31:54.640 good.
00:31:55.200 And then I've seen scenarios where we screwed up on scope and schedule.
00:31:59.240 We went over budget, but our relationship is good that we have trust.
00:32:03.760 And the customer goes, Hey, I get it.
00:32:06.000 These things are complex and you get grace, right?
00:32:09.120 When you have connection with people and to add to the importance of connection, how many
00:32:14.520 opportunities in life are actually through the conduit of a relationship?
00:32:21.000 Most, most are.
00:32:23.260 I mean, we don't have to go far to realize that Ryan, your success, when your role, why?
00:32:28.320 Because of your ability to create connections with guests, with other individuals, with team
00:32:34.080 members, with battle team leaders, most people, someone hired you.
00:32:39.360 It was through connection that that opportunity presented itself.
00:32:43.820 It is critical.
00:32:45.740 Now, of course it has to be rude.
00:32:47.580 It has to be true, right?
00:32:48.520 If you're manipulating people, sniff it out.
00:32:50.540 Sure.
00:32:51.060 But man, relationships are, are everything.
00:32:53.840 Yeah.
00:32:54.240 I think, I mean, you know, here's, here's an interesting story.
00:32:58.140 I was talking with my girlfriend a couple of weeks ago about this.
00:33:00.820 Cause I was having some vehicle troubles.
00:33:02.680 I'm like, Oh, have you taken it to anywhere in town?
00:33:04.640 And she said, Oh, this place is really good.
00:33:06.040 And we were talking about it.
00:33:07.020 And she said that she had, I can't exactly remember, um, maybe, maybe it was a tire issue
00:33:13.480 and she brought it in and it was just a quick little repair.
00:33:18.100 And she was willing to pay what she needed to pay for the guys.
00:33:20.640 And the guys were like, Oh, no, we're good.
00:33:22.360 We know your family.
00:33:23.100 You're good.
00:33:24.100 It was just a small, easy thing.
00:33:25.380 And they just took care of it for free.
00:33:26.800 Now you run that through an AI model and the AI model is going to say, well, you should
00:33:34.260 charge $200 for this.
00:33:35.800 And this is the most, you know, but yeah, but the reality is, is that she'll always go
00:33:41.020 back to them and she'll tell people like myself who just spent over a thousand dollars to get 0.91
00:33:46.720 my vehicle repaired at that place all because they did a free repair that they might've been
00:33:51.880 able to make $200 on.
00:33:53.200 So that's something that I don't think a computer understands that they will ever get.
00:34:01.640 So that's why it's the high income things in the future will have to do with people connecting
00:34:09.340 relatability, relationships, et cetera.
00:34:13.220 Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:15.140 Great story.
00:34:16.320 All right.
00:34:16.580 Jason Cole, the war is, I actually don't know this word.
00:34:21.480 I'm sorry.
00:34:22.020 I'm kind of embarrassed.
00:34:23.200 Hopefully we cut this out of the podcast.
00:34:24.720 Oh no.
00:34:24.980 We're even.
00:34:25.520 U-S-U-R-Y. 0.99
00:34:26.740 Usury.
00:34:27.320 Yeah.
00:34:28.720 The war is.
00:34:29.660 I've never even heard it.
00:34:31.100 What it is, is it's excessive interest on money lent to people is what that is.
00:34:37.120 So there's like usury.
00:34:38.000 It's a financial term.
00:34:38.940 Yeah.
00:34:39.100 There's like usury laws.
00:34:40.420 Got it.
00:34:40.740 Right.
00:34:40.980 So there's laws, each state and maybe even the government, the federal government has
00:34:44.500 laws on.
00:34:45.440 It's like price gouging, right?
00:34:47.040 They have laws in place to say you cannot charge excessive fees to lend money at something
00:34:52.760 other than what would be a reasonable rate.
00:34:54.480 That's what that means.
00:34:55.720 Got it.
00:34:56.680 Okay.
00:34:57.120 The war is usury.
00:34:59.600 It's not violent.
00:35:01.000 Just don't participate in debt culture.
00:35:04.240 That probability fixes every single problem.
00:35:08.260 Usury is a sin in every culture and every religion.
00:35:12.020 Don't participate like a feminine woman asking another man in a submissive way for money because 1.00
00:35:20.060 you are impatient to build your own wealth.
00:35:23.200 I actually maybe should have read this ahead of time.
00:35:25.560 I have no idea what the question is.
00:35:27.340 Jason, hopefully you feel better.
00:35:28.960 I don't know.
00:35:29.420 Well, I mean, I don't, I don't think he's entirely wrong.
00:35:32.720 I don't think he's wrong.
00:35:34.200 I don't know about the borrowing money like a woman, you know, but, and it is an interesting 1.00
00:35:41.680 point though.
00:35:42.860 It is interesting.
00:35:44.540 And I kind of like the visual behind going and begging another man for some money because
00:35:51.800 you don't, you don't have the forward thinking or the discipline to save up for yourself.
00:35:59.420 I kind of, I kind of don't hate that idea.
00:36:02.440 That makes sense to me.
00:36:03.740 Yeah.
00:36:04.060 I don't know if it's feminine, but it's certainly not masculine.
00:36:07.760 But I will say this, if I can leverage your money and it's going to cost me 5% and I can
00:36:15.780 leverage it and I can go make 20%, that seems like a pretty prudent strategy to me.
00:36:21.220 On your money, not mine.
00:36:22.780 Yeah.
00:36:22.940 So there's that too.
00:36:25.800 But I think when he says debt culture, I think that's the term he used.
00:36:29.420 Don't participate in debt culture or something.
00:36:31.280 I actually, I would agree with that.
00:36:34.240 You know, when I drive down the road, I see, I've got a 2015 three quarter ton GMC.
00:36:41.460 It's a nice vehicle.
00:36:42.180 It's not amazing and it's not the worst, but it's nice.
00:36:46.440 I keep it clean.
00:36:47.380 I do regular oil changes on it.
00:36:49.180 I keep it maintained.
00:36:50.560 I upgrade things periodically just to keep it looking nice and fresh.
00:36:54.780 But then I see a vehicle next to me and it's a 2026 three quarter ton black GMC.
00:37:01.120 And I'm like, man, I want that.
00:37:02.580 And that thing's $95,000.
00:37:06.140 I think I'm okay.
00:37:07.440 I think I'll stick with the vehicle that's been paid off for the past four years now,
00:37:13.060 four or five years.
00:37:14.280 And that's what I think more of us ought to do.
00:37:16.580 The problem is, is that we want to look rich.
00:37:21.660 But it's what it means.
00:37:22.960 But we're not.
00:37:25.960 If I, if I bought a vehicle for 20,000 or let's say 30, I think I bought my truck for $30,000
00:37:31.260 when I bought it.
00:37:32.600 If I, if I buy that for 30, could I afford the $90,000 truck?
00:37:37.780 Probably I can make a case that I could afford it, but that's $60,000, not to mention the
00:37:44.120 lost opportunity cost that I could put towards a rental property or a business venture or
00:37:52.580 even pouring it into this business.
00:37:54.400 So I think I'll hang on to my $60,000 and people can think I'm not wealthy.
00:38:01.620 And by the way, nobody's wandering around saying, I bet that guy's not wealthy.
00:38:06.400 Cause he drives that 2015 three quarter ton GMC.
00:38:09.700 Nobody cares.
00:38:10.860 They don't care about you.
00:38:11.960 Cause they're so focused on their own stuff.
00:38:13.700 Yeah.
00:38:14.620 Yeah.
00:38:15.060 They're worried about how they look.
00:38:16.340 They don't give a shit about it.
00:38:17.500 They're so engulfed with themselves.
00:38:19.880 Yeah.
00:38:20.240 Well, and, and it goes back to what we talked about last week, right?
00:38:23.780 Is prudence, you know, and, and, and I would add this to our high skill financial, uh, success,
00:38:30.460 high, you know, skillset topic and question just a second ago, understand the psychology
00:38:35.980 of things, our own psychology of why, why does, why do I want to buy that truck?
00:38:42.500 What is that rooted in?
00:38:43.580 Is that, you know, is that meaningful?
00:38:45.940 Is it prudent?
00:38:46.600 Is it beneficial?
00:38:47.380 Be, be aware of your own actions, but also that's a great skillset to understand in having,
00:38:55.680 being a business owner as well.
00:38:57.180 This was a major breakthrough for me years ago where I realized in, in, in, I'll use
00:39:02.540 technology consulting as an example here that in most cases companies aren't hiring my firm
00:39:10.040 to implement technology.
00:39:12.540 Not really what they're paying for is the, the ability to outsource the stress in making
00:39:24.020 sure they're doing the right thing.
00:39:26.000 They are paying you to take on the burden, right?
00:39:30.540 Of the decision and the mantle of responsibility.
00:39:33.580 That's really what they're paying for.
00:39:35.560 And that's really important that you realize that.
00:39:37.800 Why?
00:39:38.400 Because if I'm a consultant and Ryan, you come to me and say, Hey, Kip, I'm going to
00:39:42.020 hire a firm to implement X, Y, Z.
00:39:44.320 And my approach to you is, well, Ryan, you have lots of options.
00:39:47.980 Here's a hundred different ways.
00:39:49.280 And you can do this, this, this, let me know what you think.
00:39:52.800 You're immediately going to go, dude, I want you to tell me that's why I'm hiring you.
00:39:58.880 I'm hiring you.
00:39:59.800 So I don't have to make that decision.
00:40:01.880 That's the psychology of the decision.
00:40:05.220 So that changes how I interact with you.
00:40:07.440 Now, when I come back to you and say, Hey, Ryan, this is what you should do.
00:40:12.400 I am more confident.
00:40:14.000 This is the direction you do have other options, but my strong recommendation is this is what
00:40:20.440 you should do.
00:40:20.940 And this is why I give you confidence in me and the decision.
00:40:25.840 I don't put that back on you.
00:40:27.460 Right.
00:40:27.840 Otherwise I'm not doing my job.
00:40:29.260 So that's an example of the psychology of understanding what are really people paying
00:40:34.660 for?
00:40:35.120 Are they paying for meat at the processing plant or are they paying for this feeling that
00:40:40.120 I have this great partnership with this guy that I get some good me and, and we're, we
00:40:45.260 have a relationship and I'm one of the boys, right?
00:40:48.000 Like you got to understand that, right?
00:40:50.760 Well, and I think I agree with everything you said.
00:40:54.040 And also there's a level of assertiveness that I wish more men would just embrace in their
00:40:58.920 lives that when somebody does hire you be bold and be assertive.
00:41:02.860 You know, I've been into meat processing places, for example, where I'll go in.
00:41:07.100 I remember early on when I was hunting, I'd go in and the butcher'd be like, well, what
00:41:11.040 do you want?
00:41:11.340 I'm like, I don't know.
00:41:13.460 What do most people do?
00:41:15.460 And, and the ones who said, well, here's what most people do.
00:41:18.760 They take the good cuts.
00:41:20.000 They make steaks out of the good cuts and they take the rest and they usually grind
00:41:25.240 it for burger.
00:41:25.860 And then they take about 20% of that and they turn it into meat sticks or jerky.
00:41:31.540 Cool.
00:41:32.400 I'll do that.
00:41:33.980 That's what, that's what you're saying.
00:41:35.720 Just be a little bit more assertive because I think that's what people are looking for.
00:41:40.760 Totally.
00:41:41.460 I mean, how great is that?
00:41:43.100 If you're a first time guy, you drop in your deer and he goes standard cuts, burger, the
00:41:48.600 rest.
00:41:49.560 Yep.
00:41:50.500 Sounds good.
00:41:51.300 Yep.
00:41:51.920 Sounds good to me.
00:41:54.140 Don't have to make a decision.
00:41:55.620 And if you're smart, standard cuts, burger, you want some jerky, half the burger, half
00:42:00.360 burger, half jerky on the, on the scraps.
00:42:02.160 Yeah.
00:42:02.640 Yep.
00:42:03.160 Awesome.
00:42:03.620 I just sold up, sold to jerky.
00:42:05.360 Right.
00:42:06.280 Good job.
00:42:07.460 It's so easy.
00:42:08.440 And that's more convenient for me.
00:42:09.720 So easy.
00:42:11.240 Paradox of choice, right?
00:42:12.580 Some of that's paradox of choice, right?
00:42:14.160 People want it to be a greater experience.
00:42:17.180 All right.
00:42:17.400 One more question from Chris Edmondson.
00:42:22.140 I'm a Ramsey fan.
00:42:23.760 I agree with most of their principles and the baby steps.
00:42:26.620 The only one I'm having trouble with is pulling out investments to pay off my mortgage.
00:42:31.360 For more context, my home is only about, or only in debt, 3.25% interest.
00:42:37.880 And the investment money is in a taxable brokerage.
00:42:41.140 I'm 35.
00:42:41.940 I do have a fully funded emergency account and a high yield saving.
00:42:46.260 And it would, uh, would take about half of my investments to pay off my mortgage.
00:42:51.260 I know no one has a crystal ball and I know the future of the market.
00:42:54.760 So paying off the mortgage makes sense, but I just don't, can't bring myself to paying the
00:43:00.480 capital gains taxes on cashing out some of my investments.
00:43:03.380 What would you do?
00:43:04.700 I'm open to suggestions.
00:43:06.600 I would probably, I would align with what you're saying.
00:43:08.920 I agree with a lot of what Dave Ramsey has to say, but three and a quarter interest, not
00:43:13.680 to mention the tax savings on the interest portion of your, your payment and your mortgage
00:43:19.880 actually drops the rate effectively.
00:43:22.120 The real rate, like we talked about last week, even lower than 3.25.
00:43:27.160 There's another issue here too, is that now you're not as liquid.
00:43:32.220 I can pay off my mortgage anytime I want.
00:43:34.920 So essentially here's what I want you to wrap your head around is let's just say for the
00:43:39.040 sake of argument that you've got your a hundred thousand dollars on a mortgage at, at, um,
00:43:44.660 let's say 4% and you have a hundred thousand dollars in a account earning 4%.
00:43:53.160 Are you in debt?
00:43:56.640 What would you say, Kip?
00:43:59.320 No.
00:44:00.560 Technically you are, but you're not really.
00:44:04.280 Yeah.
00:44:04.780 You're like, you're out of debt.
00:44:06.300 You're, you're using debt.
00:44:08.320 You're using correct.
00:44:09.800 Yeah.
00:44:10.000 So you're not in debt and there's arguments to be made that even with the tax benefits
00:44:15.220 it'd be even, but whatever, I'm just trying to use really easy math here.
00:44:18.400 And here's why that's important because I already said there's four things you should
00:44:21.980 look for when it comes to investing potential rate of return, um, liquidity, safety and taxation.
00:44:31.580 So in my scenario, I just painted a hundred thousand dollars of debt at 4%, a hundred thousand
00:44:36.000 dollars in here earning 4%.
00:44:37.420 Let's talk about each of those factors.
00:44:39.680 First factor liquidity.
00:44:41.860 Who's more liquid?
00:44:42.820 The guy who paid off the debt or the guy who has a hundred thousand in his account and
00:44:45.860 still has a hundred thousand dollars in debt.
00:44:48.240 The guy who has the, because if something happens, I've got a hundred thousand dollars
00:44:51.580 right here.
00:44:52.280 So he's more liquid.
00:44:53.640 Who's in a better tax position?
00:44:56.460 Well, the guy who's saving money because he has tax benefits on, on that.
00:45:02.160 So, so the tax benefits.
00:45:04.560 Safety.
00:45:05.140 Who's in a safer position?
00:45:08.300 The guy with the debt.
00:45:10.660 And then potential rate of return.
00:45:12.440 Who has the higher potential rate of return?
00:45:15.440 The guy with the debt.
00:45:16.600 Cause he's got money in the market that could go higher than 4%.
00:45:19.320 Yeah.
00:45:21.500 So I don't see a world in which it makes sense under those parameters to pay off the mortgage.
00:45:31.860 Yeah, I totally agree.
00:45:33.760 Well, and I think it's important in context is everything, right?
00:45:37.060 We talk about this.
00:45:37.900 I mean, we should, we should understand, right?
00:45:40.100 The audience and the context of what's happening.
00:45:42.000 And I, and I think that's where guys get a little sideways with Ramsey's, right?
00:45:46.040 Because like his focus is what?
00:45:48.260 We, we have a country that's grossly in debt that aren't prudent with their purchases.
00:45:54.120 And he, and he's talking to the masses about like, get out of debt, right?
00:45:59.540 And he's taking a hard line there to help people, the average person in that space, right?
00:46:05.360 It's the same thing.
00:46:06.200 It's like when, when Asia and I were thinking about having our last kid, right?
00:46:09.920 We're, we're almost 40 at the time.
00:46:11.820 And she was like, oh, you know, the risk of down syndrome and all these other things
00:46:16.400 grossly increases, right?
00:46:18.420 Later in years.
00:46:19.580 And I'm like, based upon the average woman, you're not the average woman.
00:46:25.620 Do what makes sense, right?
00:46:27.560 For where you are, but don't, don't grab into statistics and then just apply it to you when
00:46:33.260 you're not average.
00:46:34.120 Right now, that's a good point.
00:46:35.160 Same thing.
00:46:35.400 If you're below average, right?
00:46:36.340 If you're in really bad health, you should probably listen to those averages a lot more than
00:46:39.600 the average person, right?
00:46:40.940 But I'm glad you clarified that Asia is better than average.
00:46:43.540 Cause you said you're not average, but at first you didn't say it was better or worse.
00:46:46.520 You just said you're not average.
00:46:47.780 That's true.
00:46:48.420 I'm glad you clarified.
00:46:49.200 Yeah.
00:46:51.280 Yeah.
00:46:51.900 No, I think that's, I think that is a good point.
00:46:54.740 And I even talked with Dave Ramsey about this when I had him on the podcast.
00:46:58.320 I said, look, you're encouraging people to invest in the market to pay off debt, but that's
00:47:03.600 not how you built your wealth.
00:47:04.840 You built your wealth in real estate and business.
00:47:06.620 This empire is not a result of you putting using debt.
00:47:09.940 And it's not a result of you putting money into the stock market.
00:47:13.340 And he's like, you know what, Ryan, that's a good question.
00:47:15.380 That's an honest question.
00:47:16.700 And the honest answer is I know my audience.
00:47:20.300 And so for you, I would probably recommend something different because you do your budget.
00:47:26.080 You do have investments.
00:47:27.460 You are paying down or have your debt completely paid off.
00:47:30.000 And that person deserves different answers to some of the similar questions.
00:47:34.080 Totally.
00:47:36.760 I love it.
00:47:37.580 I love it.
00:47:38.440 Well, we're up on time.
00:47:39.620 In fact, I have an iron council call in three minutes.
00:47:42.900 So we got to, we got to wrap this and talking about the iron council, we're open for enrollment.
00:47:49.140 And, you know, we, I heard you talk about it on the preview call or in the leadership call
00:47:54.180 that we had last night.
00:47:55.180 Um, we have some serious momentum happening in the iron council.
00:47:59.240 Our numbers are up.
00:48:00.660 More guys are joining.
00:48:02.040 I think.
00:48:05.240 Let's just say there, there is, uh, a movement of intentionality, um, around men, at least
00:48:12.080 the men that we're surrounding ourselves around the men that kind of listened to this podcast.
00:48:15.700 And, and I think it's a Testament of the guys that are signing up and, and banding with us.
00:48:20.780 So, man, if you guys are on the fence, you know, it's, I think this is a message that
00:48:25.940 we give out in this podcast often move to action, right?
00:48:29.940 It, it, I had this thought the other day, the point of faith is what to sit with it.
00:48:34.460 No, it's actually to move to action.
00:48:36.400 The point of knowledge and wisdom is to move to action.
00:48:41.200 The point of you listening to this podcast, if it doesn't convert to action, what are
00:48:46.680 you doing?
00:48:48.440 Yeah.
00:48:49.020 You're wasting this conversation if you're not moving to action.
00:48:53.180 So if you're on the fence, move to action, band with us, order of man.com, um, to get
00:49:00.620 connected in regards to the order, but to learn about the iron council, um, go to order of
00:49:05.500 man.com slash iron council and join us and get on a team and start taking action.
00:49:10.680 And, you know, since we're talking about investments and we talked about the typical
00:49:14.700 inverse relationship of, of, uh, return and risk, usually those are, they have an inverse
00:49:21.080 relationship.
00:49:21.660 The more risk you take, the higher return or liquidity is very much the same way.
00:49:25.960 There's a lot of inverse relationships there.
00:49:27.760 The, one of the best things about the iron council is you have this high, high level of
00:49:32.820 potential return and you have no risk and you have no risk because if you join us and
00:49:38.720 you're like, nah, this is not what I want.
00:49:40.300 You just send me an email and I say, good, here's your money back.
00:49:44.520 Have fun.
00:49:46.000 Like no questions asked, no trying to get you to stick around, just make your decision.
00:49:50.960 So high rate of return potentially was zero risk.
00:49:54.640 That's not an investment you're going to find anywhere else.
00:49:56.560 So check it out.
00:49:57.820 Order of man.com slash iron council.
00:50:00.020 Kip, I want to get you out of here on time so you can get to those guys.
00:50:02.520 But again, guys, order of man.com slash iron council guys.
00:50:05.960 I appreciate you.
00:50:06.640 Great questions today.
00:50:07.480 And we'll be back next week for another interview and another ask me anything until then guys
00:50:12.640 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:50:20.040 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:50:22.880 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:50:26.680 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.