The Power of Intention, High-Income Skills, and Overcoming Financial Hurdles ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
181.13895
Summary
In this episode of the Order of Men podcast, we discuss the pros and cons of starting a 401k in your 30s. Is it better to start a Roth 401k when your company matches your contributions or should you wait until you're in your thirties?
Transcript
00:00:00.000
I think you either have to create a cool experience or extreme convenience.
00:00:09.120
If you can make somebody's life easier or you can make it a really cool experience,
00:00:14.100
then that's what you would do if you didn't want to compete on price alone.
00:00:21.860
It's weird to be recording on a Friday morning.
00:00:24.620
We're usually doing Monday morning, but here we are on Friday.
00:00:26.980
So we're not even going to be able to talk about the crazy stuff that happens over the weekend
00:00:32.620
when everybody's kind of tapped out and doing their own thing.
00:00:37.760
Instead, we'll talk about the crazy stuff that happened during the week,
00:00:40.160
which might be closer from a timeline perspective.
00:00:50.040
There was a lot of good questions based on our Ask Me Anything last week regarding money and debt
00:00:55.760
and investing and saving and everything else, budgeting.
00:00:58.440
So I figured we'd take the remainder of the questions for this week.
00:01:02.500
And then the following week, we'll go ahead and move into a new realm and a new topic.
00:01:06.580
I'm curious what you think that topic should be.
00:01:09.240
Do you have anything in mind or anything in particular?
00:01:15.540
Well, I mean, I'd want to give some thought to it, but...
00:01:18.420
And the guys listening might have some ideas too.
00:01:20.340
So if you have ideas, you can do one of two things to share those ideas with us.
00:01:24.520
Go to facebook.com slash groups slash order of men.
00:01:30.360
I just re-recorded an intro video because the intro video that was on there was from five
00:01:40.760
But then you can ask your question or give us suggestions.
00:01:43.420
Or you can follow me on Instagram over at Brian Mickler or order of men.
00:01:48.120
And then you shoot me a message and we'll take your ideas into consideration.
00:01:57.100
So we'll kind of rapid fire this a little bit today.
00:02:01.680
So Mike Cole, his question, is it worth investing 401k Roth in your 30s when your company match
00:02:08.820
still gets taxed at the end because of those contributions aren't matched tax-free and neither
00:02:15.480
Or should you just do traditional and let both grow at the untaxed amount and get the
00:02:25.980
The way that I'm understanding is that he can contribute to a Roth 401k, but his employer
00:02:31.780
contributions are going to be basically a traditional IRA for all intents and purposes.
00:02:37.400
And what I would say to that is, yes, you should do the Roth portion and whatever they're going
00:02:45.820
So if it, let's just say for the sake of argument, they match $5,000 and, but it's going to be
00:02:53.980
So now that's $4,000, that's still $4,000 that you would not have had.
00:02:59.740
And the growth on that $4,000 over the next, I think he said he was 30.
00:03:07.720
And then what I would do, and I think we talked about this on last week's podcast, that if
00:03:12.220
you do contribute the match, let's say they'll match up to 5%, but you want to save 10% of
00:03:21.300
Actually, you can do all 10% into the Roth since it's a Roth.
00:03:25.120
If it was a traditional 401k, I'd say do 5,000 there and then 5,000 separately and independently.
00:03:30.740
You could probably still make a case for having a Roth IRA outside of your Roth 401k because
00:03:37.920
of access to different index funds and better investment vehicles.
00:03:45.840
Why would Mike bring up the fact that he's in his thirties?
00:03:48.880
Why is that a variable in his question, you think?
00:03:51.380
Well, with 401ks, and we talked about this last week, there's four factors that every
00:03:56.120
person needs to consider in an investment vehicle.
00:04:07.500
So what Mike is asking about has to do with liquidity and taxation.
00:04:12.840
It's a long time before he can pull money out of that account without facing not only
00:04:17.180
taxes on the money, but potential penalty taxes as well.
00:04:21.420
So that's why it is important to do this in the proper order.
00:04:26.960
If the transmission on the vehicle goes out and you need to pay five grand or whatever it
00:04:30.720
is these days for a transmission, uh, so that you don't have to pull out money out of your
00:04:35.680
401k, get hit with the taxes, get hit with the penalties and dip into your retirement savings.
00:04:46.000
What are the biggest money moves someone can make who's 48 and has nothing saved for retirement?
00:04:57.340
I don't, if you work with a don't wait, yeah, don't wait.
00:05:00.660
And you know what I've seen a lot of people do is they'll wait until they can put away
00:05:05.380
as much as they want to put away on a monthly basis before they even start at all.
00:05:09.400
So if somebody says, well, I'd really like to be in the position to save 10,000 a year,
00:05:16.280
And I don't ever suggest that you obviously want to make sure that I hope it's obvious
00:05:21.760
that even if you can only save a hundred dollars a month, that that's better than zero.
00:05:25.960
And not only that, you're building the habit of investing money.
00:05:29.280
And it is a habit because that's money that you won't be able to spend today.
00:05:33.480
So you need to get over that short term, immediate gratification and start,
00:05:38.960
training yourself to put money away before you start spending any of it.
00:05:44.120
So start, I mean, that's, that's the solution to put it on hyper speed and hyper drive.
00:05:50.100
If your employer has a matching program, you definitely want to take advantage of that
00:05:54.740
because if you're saving 5% of your income and they're matching, all of a sudden that
00:05:59.840
$5,000 turns into $10,000, that's a hundred percent rate of return overnight.
00:06:04.860
So make sure you take advantage of that opportunity.
00:06:12.120
And one thing that I would consider doing too is at 48, you don't have a lot of time.
00:06:17.500
I mean, you've got about 20 years until you hit that traditional retirement age.
00:06:22.480
And you might have to work beyond that if you don't start saving now,
00:06:28.480
And let's just say for the sake of argument, you're making a hundred thousand a year and
00:06:34.080
you can make 20 grand on the side doing a side business, whether it's coaching or consulting
00:06:41.800
or a skillset like firearms training or training jujitsu or teaching people how to paint or build
00:06:47.620
websites or photography where you might make, I don't know, 10, 15, $20,000 on the side.
00:06:53.560
If I, if I was going to go that route, I would take a large percentage.
00:07:01.040
And I would start investing that into tax-free vehicles.
00:07:06.540
I'm going to steal something that you said last week, which was prudence, right?
00:07:12.600
And I really, that was my key takeaway from the last AMA is, is the question is not, can
00:07:25.380
And so maybe a thought based upon last week's conversation to Lonnie is stop doing things
00:07:35.820
And if you're not being prudent, start being prudent, cut costs that's unnecessary, those
00:07:41.420
other things, and start operating with a balanced, you know, a balanced sheet, if you want to use
00:07:54.480
There was a, there was a, like a Saturday Night Live skit that Steve Martin, or yeah, Steve
00:08:01.680
And it was something like, stop buying things you can't afford.
00:08:07.020
And it was him and he comes in to consult this couple and they're like, well, we don't have
00:08:15.040
You don't have to spend or don't buy things you can't afford.
00:08:17.500
And then the guy, the husband's like, well, what if we really want the car, but we don't
00:08:23.500
have the money now, but we put it on a credit card and then we pay it off later.
00:08:27.680
And the guy's like, no, don't buy things you can't afford.
00:08:31.300
And they try to keep finding these like loopholes and ways to do it.
00:08:34.760
But I was introduced to a concept when it comes to budgeting that has proven valuable
00:08:40.320
It's a little counterintuitive when you first hear it, but you should spend every single
00:08:46.300
You should spend every single dollar that you make.
00:08:50.200
You should be intentional about how you're deploying those dollars.
00:08:54.380
So I look at it to myself when I invest and save my money, I'm spending that money and
00:09:00.480
I have it accounted for, whether it's 500 or a thousand or 10,000 or a hundred thousand
00:09:05.500
dollar purchase or investment in a business or real estate.
00:09:09.200
But I'm spending every dollar, meaning I know where everything goes, exactly where it should
00:09:15.740
My grandma was, and my mom subsequently was notorious for saying a place for everything
00:09:23.340
And they were talking about the order of the house, that everything should be put away and
00:09:30.480
And so if you're not aware of how you're spending your money, you could potentially
00:09:36.040
be blowing, let's just say five or $10 a day on gas station, diet Cokes and snacks, $10
00:09:51.940
That's $2,500 a year that you could be investing, deploying, earning a rate of return on.
00:10:02.320
Even if it means cutting out the diet Coke run in the morning, that's something I should
00:10:11.000
Well, and power of intentionality, man, we could grab that principle and apply it to all
00:10:21.800
Is it an active choice that you're identifying is the best interest?
00:10:26.300
Like, that's really what that principle is, is be intentional with how you're spending
00:10:30.720
Because when we're not intentional with our time and money, what happens for, you know
00:10:42.660
Well, and you can, Jeremy Fulmer has this great.
00:10:44.640
I was just going to say, you can be sure that if you're not intentional with your money,
00:10:47.880
somebody else is willing to be intentional with your money for you because every corporate
00:10:56.480
Every company out there is after your dollars and they're going to, you know, if it's done
00:11:00.420
correctly, they're going to exchange a comparable service or good.
00:11:04.220
But if you're not going to be intentional about it, then any, including this organization
00:11:12.000
So somebody is going to be intentional with your money.
00:11:20.960
I love this because, well, I've done this actually.
00:11:23.960
So I'm interested to see what your recommendations are.
00:11:28.000
His question, what's your guys' take on scaling your rental portfolio by taking equity out of
00:11:34.140
your current property versus letting it pay itself off?
00:11:38.740
I would, I would do that with just a healthy dose of caution.
00:11:52.660
Let's say you've got a property and the mortgage, the payment on the property is,
00:12:03.000
Um, and right now you're collecting $1,800 in monthly rental income.
00:12:13.400
And now you go take out a loan and then that's going to add $500 more to your payment.
00:12:18.700
So now you have a $2,000 a month mortgage payment and you're collecting $1,800.
00:12:24.780
And even by the way, even if you're even, let's say, let's say you're paying 2000, but
00:12:30.100
you're collecting 2000, you're also playing with fire because the dishwasher is going to
00:12:40.000
And if you aren't in between renters, there might be times where you don't have a renter
00:12:44.180
at all to your point, because you just lost somebody and it's going to take you six,
00:12:48.960
60 days to fill, or at least to collect a rent check.
00:12:52.600
So you should, you shouldn't just be breaking even, you should be cash flowing 20 to 30%
00:13:04.880
Just make sure it's a prudent idea and it isn't going to put you in a bind and jeopardize
00:13:19.640
I mean, again, but you know, there's another consideration here too.
00:13:27.740
Now there has to be some equity because nobody's going to lend against a property that has no
00:13:32.360
But you don't want to lend it so much that now you're in the hole after you take, now that
00:13:38.900
Or, or if property values go down, which is, could potentially happen.
00:13:43.220
Now that wouldn't necessarily be too big of an issue because you're not selling it.
00:13:48.260
But if you had to sell it because you got into a financial hardship, now all of a sudden
00:13:59.820
And then you're going to buy a property and with where property values are right now, you
00:14:05.360
could be buying at a very high time in the market.
00:14:07.480
So you've got this other rental unit now, which could provide the income for you, but consider
00:14:12.640
what could happen if those property values now go down.
00:14:18.140
It's not a no, but it's do it with some, some intelligence and some prudence behind it.
00:14:31.080
B I've been contemplating closing my 401k at work and buying a decent amount of land.
00:14:42.160
I'm already, I already own one home and I thought about turning it into a rental.
00:14:48.880
Well, I can't answer that question because I don't know what you mean by buying land.
00:14:53.920
I mean, I know what it means to buy land, but I don't know what your purpose for the land
00:15:05.500
And how much more investment above and beyond the land would you have to put in?
00:15:10.540
And how does that, and, and it probably depends on how large that 401k is.
00:15:16.720
What I would consider is what is the purpose for your 401k?
00:15:22.700
Potential rate of return and earnings down the road when you retire.
00:15:26.600
If you can take money out of your 401k and pay the taxes.
00:15:32.440
And by the way, cause you're younger, I'm assuming pay the penalty taxes, which don't
00:15:39.720
So you're going to pay penalties of an additional 10% on top of your ordinary income tax bracket.
00:15:45.020
And by the way, if you take that money out, your income bracket might go up.
00:15:50.800
Cause if you're in a 25% tax bracket, depending how much you pull out, you may now be in a 28%
00:15:56.520
And so it's not 25, it's 28 plus the additional 10% penalties.
00:16:01.360
So what is the purpose of that investment vehicle?
00:16:03.620
And then can you replicate that in a different investment vehicle that's designed to do the
00:16:09.640
So for example, if a great piece of property came up as a rental, a potential rental, um,
00:16:17.900
I might pull some out, eat the taxes, eat the penalties and put it into that investment
00:16:24.660
property because there's a good, strong likelihood that that will generate revenue to a greater
00:16:33.960
If you're going to do it in a, into a different type of vehicle, like I just want to own raw
00:16:41.760
As long as you have the bucket of retirement set up somewhere else.
00:16:54.480
Uh, Jeff Kessler's question is a little bit different.
00:17:02.020
I think, um, I own a meat processing shop in Southern Colorado as a new business owner.
00:17:07.740
What are a few hurdles that I can expect to experience?
00:17:11.480
How did you overcome them trying to think outside the box?
00:17:20.780
So there's, there's some things to consider here.
00:17:23.860
Some are financial, some are different aspects of the business.
00:17:26.700
Um, marketing is going to be a huge component of that.
00:17:30.480
Um, but when it comes to the financial ramifications, I would really be worried about rising costs.
00:17:36.720
That's a thing that a lot of people don't take into consideration.
00:17:39.280
The, the commercial place that you're renting, assuming you are, the cost of that is going
00:17:46.140
Um, the cost of, of meat is likely going to go up.
00:17:49.340
The cost of new equipment and servicing that new equipment is likely going to go up.
00:17:53.680
And so, yes, your prices could go up with that as well, but can, can the market demand that
00:18:01.640
And if the answer is no, then people will find the cheapest source of protein they possibly
00:18:09.580
So you have to, you have to really think about what could potentially happen down the road,
00:18:16.800
anticipate that, build your pricing out correctly.
00:18:19.920
And then that's why marketing is so important is because if done correctly, you can charge
00:18:27.540
In this case for the meat that you're processing, because people know, like, and trust you.
00:18:33.300
And if they don't know, like, and trust you, then the only decision they have to buy a product
00:18:40.880
And most people are just assuming that all the quality is going to be about the same.
00:18:46.420
But if you create an experience for your people, you know, I think about some of these, um,
00:18:53.280
you know, shops that like you used to see, um, in bigger cities where, or even small towns
00:19:00.440
where you walked in and it was a family owned business and they've got all kinds of different
00:19:05.540
meats and people are coming in and they're regulars and everybody knows each other's name.
00:19:09.360
And they're having a good time and they're laughing with each other.
00:19:12.540
Like those are the kinds of things that you want to do.
00:19:15.180
But the other thing that you have to compete with now too is organizations that are shipping
00:19:21.320
So there's another vein that you have to consider is how do I get this to consumers who are
00:19:28.540
You know, I, I have a food service that I, uh, get every single week.
00:19:34.640
And they send me all the ingredients for my meals, including the protein.
00:19:41.320
So that's another factor that you're going to need to consider when it comes to pricing,
00:19:51.380
And, and part of this, uh, Jeff comes down to your unique selling proposition, right?
00:19:56.820
It's, it's, it's, it's not enough for you to be like, well, I'm a meat processing plant.
00:20:00.100
And then it's a race to the bottom with you trying to be cheaper.
00:20:05.860
Um, my dad was a meat processor, a butcher for most of my life.
00:20:14.080
Like my dad had the Sorenson jerky recipe and it was his version.
00:20:22.460
It was his flavor of it and it, there was so much demand for his jerky that half the
00:20:29.360
meat processing plant was a giant smoker to make all the jerky orders that people were
00:20:39.340
Like we would have people come in and they're just like jerky the whole thing.
00:20:49.020
But his margins on the jerky were way higher, right?
00:20:53.860
Than just doing typical butchering meat cuts, right?
00:21:01.180
What's a, what's a, and I don't know, Jeff, you're probably not looking for ideas, but
00:21:04.680
I'm going to give them anyway, is look at the shift of things, right?
00:21:17.140
Most people I know are looking to, to get, buy a grass fed cow, split it with someone
00:21:22.560
else and have some, some good meat and not buy it from the store.
00:21:34.620
You have a partner and then you start selling half cows.
00:21:39.900
And, and you, you know, and then you have some margin and you have some built in loyalty
00:21:44.940
So there's a lot of things, but look beyond on the meat processing plant and the raise
00:21:51.120
to the bottom of trying to beat out people on pricing.
00:21:54.380
You beat them out on being superior in other ways.
00:21:57.120
And then that way you're not, um, looking at hurting your margin of profit just by trying
00:22:05.640
Well, and, and with the cow thing, if you go in on half cow with people, now you're double
00:22:10.060
dipping in a way because you're making money on that.
00:22:12.260
And then you're all, where are they going to get the cow butchered with you clearly?
00:22:18.640
And then the other thing to consider, I don't know if butchers do this or not, but you might
00:22:26.300
And all of a sudden you're taking what most people used to just think was scraps and you're,
00:22:33.980
You're, you're, and you're making bone broth that you now sell in five gallon paint buckets.
00:22:40.960
I'm just thinking of different ways that you might just add a little bit more to your bottom
00:22:48.580
And we're in such a health craze right now that I think if you said, Hey, and you communicated
00:22:53.420
the value of bone broth, not wasting animals, um, the health benefits of it.
00:22:57.840
I think there's all sorts of people who would love to buy a ton of bone broth from you.
00:23:04.400
Well, and, and maybe some people want to be part of the process, right?
00:23:07.700
Buy your cow and, and we'll, we'll, you can help slaughter it with us.
00:23:12.940
Because, you know, and they, they want to, they want to take the shot, right?
00:23:17.700
So there's, there's lots of things, your own rub.
00:23:20.660
I mean, I, I can, I can go on for days of, of ideas and concepts around this just because
00:23:25.080
it's, it's a world that I, I lived in for, for most of my life.
00:23:31.060
For Jeff to be like, Hey, how do I, uh, just identify myself being different, right.
00:23:37.580
So I think you either have to create a cool experience or extreme convenience that to me,
00:23:46.880
If you can make somebody's life easier, uh, or you can make it a really cool experience,
00:23:51.860
then that's what you would do if you didn't want to compete on price alone.
00:23:59.800
My mom hated this, but, um, you know how this is.
00:24:05.780
You go a hunt, you're two miles or two hours up in the mountains and you have a deer that
00:24:15.700
If, if, if you're, it's not convenient for you to drop in at 2am in the morning to drop
00:24:22.420
In some shops, there's hours of operation and then they expect you to figure it out until
00:24:29.800
My dad would, we would take deer in, in the middle of the night, you know, depending on,
00:24:34.060
you know, and he would give out a cell phone number.
00:24:36.920
Like if, if Ryan, if you were my butcher and I knew that if I get this kill and it's 4am
00:24:42.820
in the morning, that I can text you and say, Hey man, I got one coming in.
00:24:48.000
That's, that means something not, not just convenient.
00:24:54.880
And there's a relationship that gets formed at that level of convenience and service.
00:24:59.340
Well, and there's another thing that you can do too with the convenience is you can
00:25:04.600
So if I come in there and you're like, Oh, I can't get to it for a week.
00:25:08.180
I, there should be an option where you say, unless you pay 15% additional, and then I'll
00:25:17.640
And people, there's people who might scoff at that a little bit, but you know what?
00:25:23.040
There's plenty of people would be like, you know what?
00:25:24.780
I'm willing to pay a little bit more in order to have it in the next day or two.
00:25:28.080
I had one of my taxidermy guys do that one time on a sheep that I killed.
00:25:32.020
I brought it in and he's like, Hey, it's going to be like 45 days before I can even
00:25:38.480
And I'm like, well, how do we speed up that process?
00:25:40.540
He's like, if you pay me a hundred dollars extra and pay me cash right now, I'll put
00:25:49.700
So people will pay extra for certain conveniences that you make available to them.
00:25:55.640
It's when you're sneaky with it, that, that it doesn't work out well, just be communicate
00:25:59.800
up front and then you're solid and you should communicate it with everybody.
00:26:02.480
So Kip, if you come in, I could, I would tell you, I would say, Hey Kip, you know, in
00:26:07.000
order to do what you want, it's a thousand dollars.
00:26:09.620
Just so you know, there's, if you want it to be faster, it's $1,100 or 1200 or 50, I don't
00:26:17.520
And you might say, Oh no, I'm good with it taking two or three weeks.
00:26:21.340
I just wanted you to know that option's available.
00:26:29.740
And Jeff, by the way, we, we, we would sell hides.
00:26:36.420
If they brought their deer in with hides on, we benefited from that high.
00:26:46.140
Jonathan Webster, uh, Charlie Munger once said something to affect.
00:26:51.340
Of getting to 100,000, it's the hardest, but the rest gets easier after that.
00:26:56.660
I'd like you, if you could discuss the learning high income skills, uh, to learn, earn more
00:27:09.200
That the first hundred, hundred thousand is the hardest and, and past that it's easier.
00:27:14.340
I mean, I don't know if that's the number, but in, in theory, of course, because learning
00:27:20.560
the skill to build wealth is harder than having wealth and then already having a skill and
00:27:33.820
And that's why you always hear the adage, the rich get richer.
00:27:37.200
Not because they're inherently taking advantage of people.
00:27:43.060
They know how to get rich because they've done it.
00:27:44.800
It's like saying, what's, you know, what's the hardest part of jujitsu?
00:27:51.980
Well, I would say it's probably the first year, maybe even, even the first six months
00:28:01.740
You're out of shape and you just feel like an embarrassment.
00:28:04.840
And jujitsu doesn't always get easier because it's progressively more challenging, but you start
00:28:09.640
to understand the game and you get better and you improve.
00:28:13.260
And so it's, I think in a lot of ways, it is easier than when you start, just like anything.
00:28:23.480
So anyhow, high learning, learning high income skills.
00:28:31.440
I would say if you can sell, that's a high income skill.
00:28:37.440
If you can sell something, uh, if you can connect and relate with people, that's a skill.
00:28:43.800
What, what I'm, what I want to get at as I'm, as I'm talking about this, it's the things
00:28:47.820
that can't be replaced by technology and robots.
00:28:54.420
So attorney work, for example, I think most people would say attorneys are very knowledgeable.
00:29:01.580
Um, but that might just go completely away because if AI can just interpret the law without
00:29:09.940
any subjectivity, that becomes a whole lot easier than hiring an expensive attorney.
00:29:18.460
When I was in financial advising, a thing started coming along called robo advisors.
00:29:23.840
And these are the Robin hood apps and the investing apps and the apps that take round up your
00:29:29.520
expenditures and then deposit the extra amount into it.
00:29:32.820
And then automatically diversify your portfolio and all the old time financial advisors scoffed
00:29:40.300
It's like, well, you know, like you can laugh at it or you can get with the times and those
00:29:46.600
guys are no longer in the business or probably suffering and struggling.
00:29:49.500
So what, what if, what should a financial advisor do to not be able to be replaced?
00:29:56.780
A, a, a program, a math program can do that better than a human being can do that.
00:30:04.940
So if you're my client, Kip, my job is not to manage the money.
00:30:11.940
They're not picking random stocks and totally, but my job is to manage you.
00:30:16.400
So when you get scared and you're like, I'm going to pull my money out of market because
00:30:21.060
the stock market's crashing, my job is to manage you.
00:30:27.760
Or when you're eager to put a bunch of money in at the high, my job is to say, whoa, whoa,
00:30:38.060
So I would say, um, being able to sell things, uh, being able to network, being able to form
00:30:49.400
These are the type of skills being able to do public speaking.
00:30:53.100
These are the type of skills that I think moving forward are going to be the high income
00:30:56.820
skills because they're not easily replaced by robots or technology.
00:31:02.720
You know, one of the things you mentioned is connection just to drive that thought home.
00:31:06.620
There was a study that I've referenced over the years and it was the, the top contributing
00:31:14.040
factor that reduced lawsuits for physicians was their bedside manner was likability.
00:31:25.440
Not quality of work, not credentialing screwed up, right?
00:31:30.580
Whether they, they were likable and, and, and it's ironic and it doesn't take much, right?
00:31:36.160
Like I, you know, I've done it consulting, business consulting my entire life.
00:31:39.840
I can't count how many times that you could have a project, meet budget scope, scope, and
00:31:47.460
We did a great job project to South because the relationship with the customer wasn't that
00:31:55.200
And then I've seen scenarios where we screwed up on scope and schedule.
00:31:59.240
We went over budget, but our relationship is good that we have trust.
00:32:06.000
These things are complex and you get grace, right?
00:32:09.120
When you have connection with people and to add to the importance of connection, how many
00:32:14.520
opportunities in life are actually through the conduit of a relationship?
00:32:23.260
I mean, we don't have to go far to realize that Ryan, your success, when your role, why?
00:32:28.320
Because of your ability to create connections with guests, with other individuals, with team
00:32:34.080
members, with battle team leaders, most people, someone hired you.
00:32:39.360
It was through connection that that opportunity presented itself.
00:32:54.240
I think, I mean, you know, here's, here's an interesting story.
00:32:58.140
I was talking with my girlfriend a couple of weeks ago about this.
00:33:02.680
I'm like, Oh, have you taken it to anywhere in town?
00:33:07.020
And she said that she had, I can't exactly remember, um, maybe, maybe it was a tire issue
00:33:13.480
and she brought it in and it was just a quick little repair.
00:33:18.100
And she was willing to pay what she needed to pay for the guys.
00:33:26.800
Now you run that through an AI model and the AI model is going to say, well, you should
00:33:35.800
And this is the most, you know, but yeah, but the reality is, is that she'll always go
00:33:41.020
back to them and she'll tell people like myself who just spent over a thousand dollars to get
00:33:46.720
my vehicle repaired at that place all because they did a free repair that they might've been
00:33:53.200
So that's something that I don't think a computer understands that they will ever get.
00:34:01.640
So that's why it's the high income things in the future will have to do with people connecting
00:34:16.580
Jason Cole, the war is, I actually don't know this word.
00:34:31.100
What it is, is it's excessive interest on money lent to people is what that is.
00:34:40.980
So there's laws, each state and maybe even the government, the federal government has
00:34:47.040
They have laws in place to say you cannot charge excessive fees to lend money at something
00:35:08.260
Usury is a sin in every culture and every religion.
00:35:12.020
Don't participate like a feminine woman asking another man in a submissive way for money because
00:35:23.200
I actually maybe should have read this ahead of time.
00:35:29.420
Well, I mean, I don't, I don't think he's entirely wrong.
00:35:34.200
I don't know about the borrowing money like a woman, you know, but, and it is an interesting
00:35:44.540
And I kind of like the visual behind going and begging another man for some money because
00:35:51.800
you don't, you don't have the forward thinking or the discipline to save up for yourself.
00:36:04.060
I don't know if it's feminine, but it's certainly not masculine.
00:36:07.760
But I will say this, if I can leverage your money and it's going to cost me 5% and I can
00:36:15.780
leverage it and I can go make 20%, that seems like a pretty prudent strategy to me.
00:36:25.800
But I think when he says debt culture, I think that's the term he used.
00:36:29.420
Don't participate in debt culture or something.
00:36:34.240
You know, when I drive down the road, I see, I've got a 2015 three quarter ton GMC.
00:36:42.180
It's not amazing and it's not the worst, but it's nice.
00:36:50.560
I upgrade things periodically just to keep it looking nice and fresh.
00:36:54.780
But then I see a vehicle next to me and it's a 2026 three quarter ton black GMC.
00:37:07.440
I think I'll stick with the vehicle that's been paid off for the past four years now,
00:37:14.280
And that's what I think more of us ought to do.
00:37:25.960
If I, if I bought a vehicle for 20,000 or let's say 30, I think I bought my truck for $30,000
00:37:32.600
If I, if I buy that for 30, could I afford the $90,000 truck?
00:37:37.780
Probably I can make a case that I could afford it, but that's $60,000, not to mention the
00:37:44.120
lost opportunity cost that I could put towards a rental property or a business venture or
00:37:54.400
So I think I'll hang on to my $60,000 and people can think I'm not wealthy.
00:38:01.620
And by the way, nobody's wandering around saying, I bet that guy's not wealthy.
00:38:06.400
Cause he drives that 2015 three quarter ton GMC.
00:38:20.240
Well, and, and it goes back to what we talked about last week, right?
00:38:23.780
Is prudence, you know, and, and, and I would add this to our high skill financial, uh, success,
00:38:30.460
high, you know, skillset topic and question just a second ago, understand the psychology
00:38:35.980
of things, our own psychology of why, why does, why do I want to buy that truck?
00:38:47.380
Be, be aware of your own actions, but also that's a great skillset to understand in having,
00:38:57.180
This was a major breakthrough for me years ago where I realized in, in, in, I'll use
00:39:02.540
technology consulting as an example here that in most cases companies aren't hiring my firm
00:39:12.540
Not really what they're paying for is the, the ability to outsource the stress in making
00:39:26.000
They are paying you to take on the burden, right?
00:39:30.540
Of the decision and the mantle of responsibility.
00:39:35.560
And that's really important that you realize that.
00:39:38.400
Because if I'm a consultant and Ryan, you come to me and say, Hey, Kip, I'm going to
00:39:44.320
And my approach to you is, well, Ryan, you have lots of options.
00:39:49.280
And you can do this, this, this, let me know what you think.
00:39:52.800
You're immediately going to go, dude, I want you to tell me that's why I'm hiring you.
00:40:07.440
Now, when I come back to you and say, Hey, Ryan, this is what you should do.
00:40:14.000
This is the direction you do have other options, but my strong recommendation is this is what
00:40:20.940
And this is why I give you confidence in me and the decision.
00:40:29.260
So that's an example of the psychology of understanding what are really people paying
00:40:35.120
Are they paying for meat at the processing plant or are they paying for this feeling that
00:40:40.120
I have this great partnership with this guy that I get some good me and, and we're, we
00:40:45.260
have a relationship and I'm one of the boys, right?
00:40:50.760
Well, and I think I agree with everything you said.
00:40:54.040
And also there's a level of assertiveness that I wish more men would just embrace in their
00:40:58.920
lives that when somebody does hire you be bold and be assertive.
00:41:02.860
You know, I've been into meat processing places, for example, where I'll go in.
00:41:07.100
I remember early on when I was hunting, I'd go in and the butcher'd be like, well, what
00:41:15.460
And, and the ones who said, well, here's what most people do.
00:41:20.000
They make steaks out of the good cuts and they take the rest and they usually grind
00:41:25.860
And then they take about 20% of that and they turn it into meat sticks or jerky.
00:41:35.720
Just be a little bit more assertive because I think that's what people are looking for.
00:41:43.100
If you're a first time guy, you drop in your deer and he goes standard cuts, burger, the
00:41:55.620
And if you're smart, standard cuts, burger, you want some jerky, half the burger, half
00:42:23.760
I agree with most of their principles and the baby steps.
00:42:26.620
The only one I'm having trouble with is pulling out investments to pay off my mortgage.
00:42:31.360
For more context, my home is only about, or only in debt, 3.25% interest.
00:42:37.880
And the investment money is in a taxable brokerage.
00:42:41.940
I do have a fully funded emergency account and a high yield saving.
00:42:46.260
And it would, uh, would take about half of my investments to pay off my mortgage.
00:42:51.260
I know no one has a crystal ball and I know the future of the market.
00:42:54.760
So paying off the mortgage makes sense, but I just don't, can't bring myself to paying the
00:43:00.480
capital gains taxes on cashing out some of my investments.
00:43:06.600
I would probably, I would align with what you're saying.
00:43:08.920
I agree with a lot of what Dave Ramsey has to say, but three and a quarter interest, not
00:43:13.680
to mention the tax savings on the interest portion of your, your payment and your mortgage
00:43:22.120
The real rate, like we talked about last week, even lower than 3.25.
00:43:27.160
There's another issue here too, is that now you're not as liquid.
00:43:34.920
So essentially here's what I want you to wrap your head around is let's just say for the
00:43:39.040
sake of argument that you've got your a hundred thousand dollars on a mortgage at, at, um,
00:43:44.660
let's say 4% and you have a hundred thousand dollars in a account earning 4%.
00:44:10.000
So you're not in debt and there's arguments to be made that even with the tax benefits
00:44:15.220
it'd be even, but whatever, I'm just trying to use really easy math here.
00:44:18.400
And here's why that's important because I already said there's four things you should
00:44:21.980
look for when it comes to investing potential rate of return, um, liquidity, safety and taxation.
00:44:31.580
So in my scenario, I just painted a hundred thousand dollars of debt at 4%, a hundred thousand
00:44:42.820
The guy who paid off the debt or the guy who has a hundred thousand in his account and
00:44:48.240
The guy who has the, because if something happens, I've got a hundred thousand dollars
00:44:56.460
Well, the guy who's saving money because he has tax benefits on, on that.
00:45:16.600
Cause he's got money in the market that could go higher than 4%.
00:45:21.500
So I don't see a world in which it makes sense under those parameters to pay off the mortgage.
00:45:33.760
Well, and I think it's important in context is everything, right?
00:45:37.900
I mean, we should, we should understand, right?
00:45:40.100
The audience and the context of what's happening.
00:45:42.000
And I, and I think that's where guys get a little sideways with Ramsey's, right?
00:45:48.260
We, we have a country that's grossly in debt that aren't prudent with their purchases.
00:45:54.120
And he, and he's talking to the masses about like, get out of debt, right?
00:45:59.540
And he's taking a hard line there to help people, the average person in that space, right?
00:46:06.200
It's like when, when Asia and I were thinking about having our last kid, right?
00:46:11.820
And she was like, oh, you know, the risk of down syndrome and all these other things
00:46:19.580
And I'm like, based upon the average woman, you're not the average woman.
00:46:27.560
For where you are, but don't, don't grab into statistics and then just apply it to you when
00:46:36.340
If you're in really bad health, you should probably listen to those averages a lot more than
00:46:40.940
But I'm glad you clarified that Asia is better than average.
00:46:43.540
Cause you said you're not average, but at first you didn't say it was better or worse.
00:46:51.900
No, I think that's, I think that is a good point.
00:46:54.740
And I even talked with Dave Ramsey about this when I had him on the podcast.
00:46:58.320
I said, look, you're encouraging people to invest in the market to pay off debt, but that's
00:47:04.840
You built your wealth in real estate and business.
00:47:06.620
This empire is not a result of you putting using debt.
00:47:09.940
And it's not a result of you putting money into the stock market.
00:47:13.340
And he's like, you know what, Ryan, that's a good question.
00:47:20.300
And so for you, I would probably recommend something different because you do your budget.
00:47:27.460
You are paying down or have your debt completely paid off.
00:47:30.000
And that person deserves different answers to some of the similar questions.
00:47:39.620
In fact, I have an iron council call in three minutes.
00:47:42.900
So we got to, we got to wrap this and talking about the iron council, we're open for enrollment.
00:47:49.140
And, you know, we, I heard you talk about it on the preview call or in the leadership call
00:47:55.180
Um, we have some serious momentum happening in the iron council.
00:48:05.240
Let's just say there, there is, uh, a movement of intentionality, um, around men, at least
00:48:12.080
the men that we're surrounding ourselves around the men that kind of listened to this podcast.
00:48:15.700
And, and I think it's a Testament of the guys that are signing up and, and banding with us.
00:48:20.780
So, man, if you guys are on the fence, you know, it's, I think this is a message that
00:48:25.940
we give out in this podcast often move to action, right?
00:48:29.940
It, it, I had this thought the other day, the point of faith is what to sit with it.
00:48:36.400
The point of knowledge and wisdom is to move to action.
00:48:41.200
The point of you listening to this podcast, if it doesn't convert to action, what are
00:48:49.020
You're wasting this conversation if you're not moving to action.
00:48:53.180
So if you're on the fence, move to action, band with us, order of man.com, um, to get
00:49:00.620
connected in regards to the order, but to learn about the iron council, um, go to order of
00:49:05.500
man.com slash iron council and join us and get on a team and start taking action.
00:49:10.680
And, you know, since we're talking about investments and we talked about the typical
00:49:14.700
inverse relationship of, of, uh, return and risk, usually those are, they have an inverse
00:49:21.660
The more risk you take, the higher return or liquidity is very much the same way.
00:49:27.760
The, one of the best things about the iron council is you have this high, high level of
00:49:32.820
potential return and you have no risk and you have no risk because if you join us and
00:49:40.300
You just send me an email and I say, good, here's your money back.
00:49:46.000
Like no questions asked, no trying to get you to stick around, just make your decision.
00:49:50.960
So high rate of return potentially was zero risk.
00:49:54.640
That's not an investment you're going to find anywhere else.
00:50:00.020
Kip, I want to get you out of here on time so you can get to those guys.
00:50:02.520
But again, guys, order of man.com slash iron council guys.
00:50:07.480
And we'll be back next week for another interview and another ask me anything until then guys
00:50:12.640
go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:50:20.040
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:50:22.880
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:50:26.680
We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.