Order of Man - The Power of Proximity

00:00:00.000 Everyone knows the adage, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and as overly simplistic as it

00:00:05.720 may be, there's a lot of truth to that for a lot of different reasons. Today, I'm joined by Ken

00:00:10.180 Coleman. He's the author of Proximity Principle, and he's here to talk with us about how true that

00:00:14.920 statement is and to break it down for us even further. We talk about finding the right people

00:00:20.440 and being in the right places, overcoming the limited beliefs fueled by our pride and fear,

00:00:26.480 building an expansive web of the right connections, and how to utilize the Proximity Principle to get

00:00:33.100 ahead. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:38.420 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:44.300 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who

00:00:52.000 you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:58.340 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:02.520 this podcast, The Order of Man, the one-stop shop, the premier source of information for helping you

00:01:09.660 and me and every man listening to this podcast step more fully into the role of husband and father and

00:01:16.400 business owner and community leader and coach and mentor and brother, every facet of your life.

00:01:23.040 It's my goal to give you the tools and the conversations and the resources and the information

00:01:28.360 that you need to step more fully into those roles and live the life that you're capable of living,

00:01:34.140 living that life that you're meant to live. And I couldn't be more honored that you're on this

00:01:38.360 path with us. We've got our interview show, which is what you're listening to right now.

00:01:42.120 Uh, we've got Ken Coleman on today, but we've had some other incredible, incredible guests,

00:01:46.580 guys like Jocko Willing, David Goggins, Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy.

00:01:51.820 Uh, as I tell you every week, the list of the men that we've had on the lineup is just,

00:01:56.600 it's absolutely incredible. And it's a testament to the fact that high achieving, highly ambitious,

00:02:02.640 highly motivated and successful men want to be part of the order, want to be part of this movement,

00:02:07.140 uh, to reclaim and restore masculinity. And if you aren't already subscribed guys,

00:02:11.640 make sure you subscribe because you've got this show, your interview show. Uh, you've got the

00:02:16.100 Wednesday show tomorrow show, which is an ask me anything with my co-host Kip Sorensen.

00:02:20.460 And then you've got our Friday show, which is Friday field notes, where you get to hear

00:02:24.640 me and some of my thoughts from throughout the week. So make sure you subscribe,

00:02:29.200 make sure you leave a rating and review. I don't ask a whole lot, but that rating and review goes such

00:02:34.320 a long way in promoting the visibility. And of course the work, the instrumental work in society

00:02:39.520 of restoring men to their proper place. Anyways, guys, like I said, glad you're here. Uh, just a

00:02:45.560 quick announcement before I get into the conversation with Ken, uh, I want to mention my friends and show

00:02:50.840 sponsors, uh, origin, Maine. I'm actually looking forward to it because in the next two weeks,

00:02:56.060 I'm going to be about 10 minutes from origins factory. A lot of you guys know that I am moving

00:03:02.320 to Maine, uh, and you've had questions about why that is. And I got into that a couple of weeks ago

00:03:06.940 on a Friday field notes. You can go listen to that, but I am excited to be close to these guys

00:03:10.540 because of what they're doing, what they stand for, how they operate, and ultimately being able

00:03:15.480 to learn from them because they're doing things right. Everything that they do from their geese

00:03:20.240 and their rash guards and their lifestyle apparel, they've got a brand new denim line.

00:03:24.320 I think their boot line is coming on board here soon. And then of course they've got their

00:03:28.220 supplemental lineup, uh, partnered up with Jocko. It's the joint warfare, the super krill,

00:03:32.760 the discipline, the milk, all of that stuff, a hundred percent made in America. And I'm telling

00:03:38.480 you what I use those supplements and I've noticed a huge, huge, uh, advantage. I I'll say this. If

00:03:43.620 you're not doing everything else like eating right and exercising and doing jujitsu, the things that

00:03:49.580 we've talked about doing, those probably aren't going to make as big a difference, but if you're

00:03:53.500 doing those things, they're going to magnify those things even further. So if you're interested in

00:03:57.220 checking out what they have to offer, uh, head to origin, main.com and use the code order or D E R

00:04:04.440 at checkout origin, main.com use the code order at checkout. And we're probably going to be doing

00:04:09.980 a meetup in July. It looks like the end of July. I'll get you some more details as this comes on

00:04:16.520 board. Uh, but we're probably going to be partnered up with the origin on that as well. And you'll be

00:04:21.300 able to see our new place. And you'll also be able to check out origins headquarters. So it's

00:04:27.160 going to be good. I'll let you know the details on that, but you got to subscribe to the show to get

00:04:30.020 that, uh, that information. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you by way of announcements.

00:04:33.820 Let's get into this. As I said earlier, my guest today is Ken Coleman. Now I will admit that I hadn't

00:04:40.480 been familiar with his work until Ramsey solutions reached out to me about his new book, proximity

00:04:45.660 principle. But after doing some research and learning more about him, I truly understand how

00:04:51.180 well, uh, this guy knows his stuff, how powerful of a resource he can be for any man who's trying

00:04:58.080 to get ahead in his career and build something meaningful and significant in his life. Uh,

00:05:03.420 Ken is an author. He's a career expert. Uh, of course he's a member of Ramsey solutions where

00:05:08.980 he frequently co-hosts the Dave Ramsey show. Uh, I really enjoy this conversation guys. And I have

00:05:13.840 no doubt that you will do, but more importantly, I know that you'll get a ton out of it.

00:05:17.960 Ken, thanks for joining me on the show today. Honored to have you on Ryan. I'm thrilled to be

00:05:23.080 with you. Yeah. I read, uh, I read the book proximity principle and I got to tell you, I'm

00:05:27.500 not sure if we've ever had a conversation like this, but career aspirations and getting guys to

00:05:33.560 move forward and figure out, you know, their calling and, and help them discover what they

00:05:37.980 are created to do, which is your line of work is, is critical. And I think it's something a lot of

00:05:42.080 guys are missing in their lives. Yeah, I absolutely know that to be true. You know, it's there. We

00:05:47.720 know this about men in general. So dudes, let's just be honest with each other today. We take an

00:05:52.500 enormous amount of our personal identity from our work. It's just a fact more so than women. We just

00:05:59.340 know that sociology, uh, data is out there, psychology data. And so when you're not doing

00:06:05.160 something that you feel a deep connection to, it is going to affect you as a man and, and in the

00:06:12.360 roles of husband and in the roles of father and friend and teammate, it's really, really important

00:06:19.280 that, uh, that we have men that are on purpose. I, I agree with that. You know, why do you think

00:06:25.820 there is such a, a difficulty in men finding something they're deeply connected with? I've seen

00:06:31.660 statistics that say is as high as 70% of people out there dissatisfied with their jobs. So this is

00:06:37.180 not uncommon. No, not at all. I think what happens is, is there is this tremendous pressure, good

00:06:44.940 pressure, but anything good can have negative effects. And there is this pressure of providing

00:06:53.940 like, that's just part of who we are as men. I, I make no bones about this. I believe God put that

00:07:02.740 in us and still that in us that we are providers. And so you take that intrinsic need to provide

00:07:12.440 because there's a responsibility to provide. So we feel that need to be a good provider. And I think

00:07:18.020 what happens is somewhere along the way we go, all right, uh, I've got to find a solid way, a safe

00:07:24.940 way, a smart way of providing. And that is a real temptation. And so I want to be as practical as I

00:07:32.640 can when I unpack this. If you don't have someone help you with what I was helped with and what I'm

00:07:39.460 going to share in the course of our conversation and what the book itself does, if you don't have

00:07:44.140 someone help you discover who you really are, then Ryan, you're going to default to the safe,

00:07:50.800 smart decision. I'm going to go to a college and because that's what everybody else tells me I should

00:07:56.880 do, I'm going to get a degree so I can get hired. And then I'm just going to get a degree that's

00:08:01.620 general, that's safe, that allow me to get a safe job. And I'm going to go get that job so that I can

00:08:07.280 provide. And then you wake up somewhere between five, 10, 15, 20 years later, and you go,

00:08:12.780 I'm just trying to make it through to the weekend so I can get out on my boat or I can go hunt or I

00:08:18.980 can go fish or I can go play golf or whatever it is. And we ended up medicating and it just turns

00:08:25.140 into this ugly spiral. And then eventually they call my show and they're going, Ken, I'm stuck.

00:08:29.240 And I dive deep into, well, what is it you really love to do? Well, I really love to do this,

00:08:33.220 but I just kind of fell into my current job. And this idea of falling into my job is really not

00:08:37.700 falling. We are choosing to do the safe thing. And, uh, that's why so many men don't have any

00:08:45.040 connection to their work. And we don't have connection to your work. Now, this is where

00:08:49.240 it gets really scary, Ryan. When you don't feel like your work, your job, your career means anything

00:08:55.860 to you. Eventually you start to believe that you and your work don't matter to anybody else.

00:09:03.600 And that's when Sunday nights get scary. Sunday nights are the number one day of the week when

00:09:10.040 it comes to suicides. And that is not true. That's absolutely true. Wow. I didn't know that.

00:09:15.360 Well, think about it. I mean, it makes sense. Just, just intuitively.

00:09:19.140 Yeah. You got to go into work the next day and face hopelessness for another week. Can't do it

00:09:23.920 anymore. Yeah. That's interesting. You know, it's funny when you talk about it, not funny, but

00:09:28.680 interesting. You talk about this safe and smart route. I mean, I I'd argue that maybe it's not all

00:09:33.460 that safe and quite honestly, not all that smart, especially as we, I mean, continue to, to, to be

00:09:40.260 able to grow businesses and the barrier to entry to starting a business or following a passion is

00:09:45.240 more viable than it's ever been. I think maybe the safer route and the smarter, more intelligent

00:09:50.840 route is to go out and to pursue some of this passion. But my question is, is there, is there a

00:09:56.740 balance between provision and passion, right? Because I know there's been situations in my life

00:10:02.860 where maybe I wasn't in the situation or in the right set of circumstances that I could

00:10:08.460 dive fully into my passion and frankly did have to pay the mortgage and did have to provide for my

00:10:14.500 young children and my wife. How do you strike that balance? And then ultimately know, okay, it's time

00:10:19.780 to make a move here. Absolutely. Incredible question. Glad you asked it. There is no balance.

00:10:26.560 There are going to be times where passion takes a backseat to provision. It's just a reality. So my

00:10:32.320 own personal journey, nine years from the time I started, I told my wife, I thought it'd be five

00:10:36.760 to seven years to switch careers and move into broadcasting and get to a point where I could

00:10:42.460 take care of the family. So I said early on, five to seven years, ended up being nine years before I

00:10:47.340 landed the true broadcasting dream job where I'm in, where I'm at today. And so there are times where

00:10:53.840 we have to put provision ahead of passion, but that does not mean that passion has to stop.

00:11:00.520 I like to use the word day job versus dream job, right? So, you know, there are times where the day

00:11:08.120 job, I've got to do what I have to do in order to do what I want to do. That's a great line from the

00:11:13.200 movie, The Great Debaters. Forrest Whitaker plays the father of his son, you know, and he's getting

00:11:17.340 on him and all the kid wants to do is go practice debate. And he's like, no, no, no, no. You don't

00:11:21.280 do debate until homework is done and studying is done. And he says to his son, you do what you have

00:11:26.640 to do so you can do what you want to do. So to your question, I don't think there's balance. I think

00:11:31.520 that it is a both and, and there are going to be times where the passion, quite frankly, is out of

00:11:37.020 balance. There's not 50, 50. It's, it's 70, 30, 80, 20, 90, 10. In fact, in the early days for me

00:11:42.640 chasing broadcasting, right? It was 95, five, it was 95% running my little small business so that

00:11:49.580 I could take care of the three babies and mama. I mean, it's just what you have to do in those

00:11:54.600 cases. Absolutely. But here's the, here's the thing. As you continue to pursue significance and

00:12:00.720 purpose, the percentages change. And so it goes from 95, five to 80, 20, 70, 30, 60, 40, but that

00:12:10.260 takes time. But I think that a lot of guys feel like it's impossible to do both. And I'm here to

00:12:15.680 tell you, I am, I am nothing other than just a walking, breathing example of how focused intensity

00:12:22.740 and patience with a lot of perseverance can actually get you there. It is not a microwave

00:12:31.800 situation. You're never going to hear me talk on my show or in any book I write, give you this get

00:12:36.980 rich quick or get there overnight, short circuit the system. I'd be very wary of guys and gals that

00:12:43.700 are writing books and giving that kind of content. Cause that's a bunch of garbage.

00:12:46.700 Yeah. I mean, it just doesn't work out like that. Well, my, my experience anyways, I mean,

00:12:50.320 you talk about this focus and patience, but ultimately too, and this is a big factor of

00:12:55.080 your book is that you've got to have a plan, right? A lot of these guys are like, oh, I'm

00:12:58.340 miserable. I want to switch jobs. And they think that, oh, I just have to burn the bridges and burn

00:13:01.760 the boats and go all in. It's like, probably ought to think about a plan, a prudent strategy

00:13:06.860 to being able to put you in this position where you're able to turn something that you're

00:13:10.660 passionate about into something that's going to be extremely lucrative and financially rewarding

00:13:14.760 for you. That's exactly right. And one other thing, this is key for us from the

00:13:18.660 emotional standpoint. Dudes don't like to talk about emotions, but we're idiots if we

00:13:23.480 don't recognize the emotion that's involved in a journey like this of switching gears and

00:13:29.760 changing paths to do work you love. As I was 95, five, at first I was just feeling like it's

00:13:37.080 taken too long. Am I an idiot? Am I delusional? But I stayed with it. And then when it got to

00:13:42.240 90-10 and 80-20, I realized something. I began to take the day job and I began to really appreciate

00:13:49.460 it and my station because I felt better about myself because I was still providing. Remember,

00:13:56.160 that's core to who we are as men. But I was also pursuing the passion while still doing a good job

00:14:01.600 providing. And it allowed me to be more patient. It gave me more juice to persevere because I was

00:14:09.240 doing a good job of providing. And I saw some gains in the area of passion. And so I think if you can

00:14:18.420 get that, guys, and you go, okay, it's going to take some time. I'm going to have to be patient and

00:14:22.980 persevere. But just a little bit of the passion will give us enough juice to keep going. And you

00:14:29.560 can't underestimate this idea of, hey, I'm still providing and I'm making moves to get where I want

00:14:37.800 to go. And here's the thing. I'd like to see the numbers change dramatically, Ryan, but the reality

00:14:42.960 is that's not going to happen overnight. So I want guys to hear that if you do this, this mindset,

00:14:49.920 this, okay, I'm going to be thankful for where I am, grateful for the opportunity of this day job.

00:14:54.360 I'm going to do a little bit as I can, as life allows, money allows, schedule allows. You're going

00:14:59.920 to be ahead of everybody else. You're going to feel like you're just crawling. But most guys never do

00:15:05.340 what we're talking about. They never take the first step. So even if you're five steps in,

00:15:10.500 brother, you are ahead of the pack. And that's what I want guys to hear.

00:15:15.240 No, I'm glad you bring this up because this is actually one of the things I wrote here and

00:15:18.380 jotted down as a note is how you managed the nine years, right? Because when you're looking back,

00:15:23.360 or when somebody's looking at you, it might, they might think, well, that's easy for you to say,

00:15:28.720 right? But my situation's different. I'm, I'm in it. I'm in the trenches. I'm,

00:15:32.740 I'm dealing with this right now. And so I think it is really critical that you as in a position,

00:15:38.320 you want to be me in a position. I want to be talk about how we manage this when we were in the

00:15:43.560 day-to-day grind where these guys are currently struggling. I can see them right now driving

00:15:48.200 down the road and their two hour commute to an office in a cubicle. They hate, uh, it's a lot

00:15:53.080 harder when you're in it. Of course, it's a lot more difficult when you're in it than when you're

00:15:57.960 on the other side of things looking back. Yeah. Let's just address some of the emotions.

00:16:02.740 So some of you guys are feeling massive amounts of doubt. I mean, bone crushing doubt.

00:16:11.880 It sounds like this. Have I lost my mind? Like, please tell me I'm not delusional and all my

00:16:19.760 friends and all my family and even my wife are rolling their eyes or laughing about me. My wife's

00:16:25.940 scared because she feels like I'm leading her into financial destruction. You know, all these things.

00:16:30.140 And then there's fear. Oh my gosh. I don't, uh, if I keep doing this, I feel like my,

00:16:34.120 my day job's going to get taken away or I'm going to fail on my business. Or if I, if I get to a

00:16:38.740 point where I actually have to step out and even though I've got a plan, if I step out, I'm going

00:16:43.060 to ruin my financial situation and set my family back 10 years. These are, these are real emotions,

00:16:49.380 fear and doubt, fear of rejection. Some of you aren't even taking the first step because you're

00:16:53.920 afraid to get rejected. Uh, so, you know, listen, two years into me saying, all right,

00:16:59.400 this is what I believe I'm supposed to do. I'm sitting out on my back porch. I write about in

00:17:03.580 the book, Ryan, you read it. That really happened. I was just miserable and nothing but negativity

00:17:11.260 racing through my mind, sitting out on my back porch because I hadn't been discovered yet. And

00:17:16.260 I've been rejected a few times. And the sting of rejection paralyzed me for about two years

00:17:20.860 because I didn't want to feel that anymore. And so I was looking for the break, basically wanting

00:17:25.600 somebody to notice me and, uh, you know, give me, you know, some type of golden ticket and open the

00:17:31.540 door and a choir behind the door. And here's my dreams. This is what I was wanting emotionally.

00:17:36.920 Now, as silly as that sounds, that took me to get to that place going, nobody is sitting around

00:17:44.080 thinking about how they can help Ken Coleman. I mean, how stinking arrogant do you have to be?

00:17:49.560 And, and, and the reason I was arrogant is because I was so self-consumed with, you know,

00:17:57.140 I deserve better than this. And I was actually building a fence around myself one plank at a

00:18:03.720 time, doubt, fear, insecurity, rejection, you know, uh, privilege, pride, didn't want to ask for help.

00:18:11.340 So guys, if you're feeling that weight, you know, understand you're not alone. I've been there.

00:18:16.900 And the way out of that is those, those are all lies. So the antidote to lies is truth.

00:18:24.280 So if the lie says you're delusional, you actually don't have the talent to do this.

00:18:29.480 You're going to fail. You're going to embarrass your wife, whatever. If that's the lie, then you got to

00:18:34.920 have an opposite. Okay. Thought that is based in truth. I do have what it takes. I'm still learning.

00:18:43.140 I'm experiencing momentum here and here. I got to stay with it. And if I stay with it,

00:18:48.660 another opportunity is going to come along. And that's why I wrote the proximity principle is,

00:18:52.660 is I want guys to realize, is it hard work? Yes. Is the journey long? Yes. But the,

00:18:59.840 the path is not difficult. All right. The, the, the actual path itself is, this is very,

00:19:07.160 very doable. It's just chopping down trees going, I need to be around this kind of person.

00:19:11.360 The person that I write about the book, there's five people and there's five places I need to be

00:19:15.840 around these people and in these places. And when I do that opportunity will come, it's guaranteed

00:19:21.620 thinking strategically, identifying people in places, uh, and then putting myself there,

00:19:27.220 swallowing my pride, getting over my fear, uh, overcoming doubt. And what happens is proximity

00:19:32.660 begins to create momentum and more positive thoughts. And so we go, all right, that's a lie.

00:19:38.400 Cause I've actually made some momentum here. And if I stay with it, it's going to happen. So

00:19:41.940 long winded, uh, answer there, but I want guys that are experiencing those emotions to number one,

00:19:48.740 don't feel bad about feeling those emotions. That's real. And you have got to really be okay saying

00:19:56.720 that's silly and know that those thoughts are going to continue to come. Can I just tell you something,

00:20:01.540 Ryan, I, I, I have some insecurity about this book launch. Why? Cause I work for Dave Ramsey.

00:20:09.180 Guy's a hall of famer and a legend. Guy sells more books between two and 3 AM than I've sold in my life

00:20:15.560 while he sleeps. You know, my point is, is that silly? Yes. And you laughed at it, right? But I'm

00:20:22.280 insecure about that, right? What am I doing? I shouldn't be measuring myself against Dave Ramsey,

00:20:27.020 right? I'm not Dave Ramsey. My goal is not Dave Ramsey's goals. You know? So then I have to

00:20:32.920 retreat from all that stuff and go, Hey, it's all about helping one person at a time, one caller on

00:20:36.740 the show at a time, one reader at a time, giving them the truth that they were created to do something

00:20:42.060 unique. It is needed and they must do it and they can get there. That that's a great point. And you

00:20:46.880 actually drill down into that pretty well in the book. When you talk about one bold step at a time,

00:20:50.980 I think what we as men get ourselves into is having these big audacious goals because we're told

00:20:55.940 that's what we should have. Right. And I think there's merit and validity to that,

00:20:59.020 but then we get so consumed and so overwhelmed. And I think a lot of the times what guys are dealing

00:21:04.080 with, I know I certainly was. And this is a big part of the reason the book resonated so well with

00:21:07.660 me is because you sitting on the porch was me pacing around my backyard, wondering how I was going to pay

00:21:13.020 the mortgage, wondering how I was going to put food on the table, wondering how I was going to make a,

00:21:17.660 a budding financial practice actually work. I mean, that was a real struggle for me. Um, but just

00:21:23.240 learning to yes, have that big target, but then work backwards into the, what, what is the one

00:21:29.760 thing that you can do right now, like right now to move the needle. And then after that,

00:21:33.980 what's the next one thing and the next one thing and the next one thing. And you know, before long,

00:21:38.900 you start to see how far you've actually come. That's right. Well, so let's think about Mount

00:21:42.980 Everest for a moment. You know, in the book, Ryan, we use that analogy throughout because I think it's

00:21:46.940 the easiest way to paint a picture for what, what every person is going to face as they seek to

00:21:52.820 pursue their purpose. Okay. I see the top of Mount Everest. I see it in pictures. I can even take a

00:21:59.900 visit there and I can somewhere look up and see the top of it. Wow. Majestic. That's where I want

00:22:05.220 to go. That's the dream job broadcasting. I want to have a national radio show, television, do all

00:22:09.500 this stuff, write books, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. I see that. That's really fun. And then all of a sudden

00:22:14.860 your eyes have got to drop down at some point. And, and just for fun here, let's, let's, let's just go

00:22:20.000 there. So let's just say that we could be transported to the base of Mount Everest. We're

00:22:23.400 there. We can see up it's majestic. We're taking pictures. And then we look down and we go, okay,

00:22:27.840 let's say we got to climb this today. That would be insanity. You would never do that. What would

00:22:33.680 you do? Well, the first thing you do is you go talk to somebody who knows what it takes to actually

00:22:38.260 climb the mountain. You think you'd do that. That'd probably be the best approach. Right. But like you

00:22:42.880 said, so many guys, we see the mountaintop and we go, Geronimo, here we go. And we wonder why we fail

00:22:47.860 or we wonder why we get terrified when we actually get on the mountain. So just think about how

00:22:51.960 terrifying that would be. So what do we got to do? Well, first thing, we got to find out what it's

00:22:55.380 going to take. And we're going to talk to people who've climbed that mountain before. Right. And,

00:22:59.400 and, and then we're going to go, okay, there's multiple different people and places that I'm

00:23:03.600 going to have to put myself in to actually have a chance at climbing this mountain. I'm going to have

00:23:07.280 to get in shape. What does it take to physically scale the mountain? Now this is, this is training,

00:23:13.720 conditioning. So I've got to go get ready there. What is the mental aspect?

00:23:17.860 Okay. And the mental aspect is I'm going to have to put myself in some hardship because here's what

00:23:21.920 I know. Once I begin to climb that mountain, weather's going to happen. Nature's going to

00:23:27.120 happen. Right. Maybe the, the path we thought was there is now closed. Uh, you talk about a storm

00:23:32.260 coming in the storms of life where you might have to spend two, three days on the side of a mountain,

00:23:37.000 hunkered down. Now you're not making any progress in those two to three days, but guess what?

00:23:43.320 The storm passes. Sure. You stayed, you hunkered and now we keep progressing. See,

00:23:50.580 I tell people all the time, Ryan, that many times just hanging in there one week where you look back

00:23:55.000 and go, I didn't accomplish anything this week. And I go, did you hang in there?

00:23:58.000 Right. You're still in the game, right?

00:23:59.380 You're still in the game, which means you're ahead of everybody else that quit this week. So

00:24:01.840 that mountain analogy is about, you know, okay, who are the people and the places that I need to get

00:24:08.260 around in order to be trained and equipped. And then I got to hire a guide, right? A guide to lead

00:24:12.900 me at the mountain. And then here's my favorite part is, you know, one of the people in the book

00:24:16.400 is peers. I'm climbing that mountain. We're all attached together on a rope. I'm not climbing that

00:24:22.540 mountain alone. And, and so it's, it's really important that we don't, that we don't try to do

00:24:29.600 it alone because if we do, what's going to happen is we look at that mountaintop and we see that.

00:24:34.200 And then all of a sudden, as we drop our eyes, we really can't even see the middle part or even

00:24:39.860 the base, right? It's covered up by clouds and it's scary. Now all of a sudden, what was majestic

00:24:44.100 in a great iPhone picture becomes terrifying, terrified of the unknown. And that's what I'm

00:24:49.680 trying to help people with is to understand we can help you identify who you are, what you were

00:24:54.660 created to do and come up with a plan to get there. So that knowledge kills fear. But the thing that

00:25:01.900 we humans are the most afraid of is the unknown. We're not afraid of risk. We're afraid of the

00:25:06.140 unknown. Big difference. Yeah. I want to get into this specifically, you know, tactically,

00:25:12.560 how do we begin to climb that mountain? But before I think it's really important because I know a lot

00:25:16.600 of guys are wondering, okay, how do I identify the mountain that I want to, that I want to climb?

00:25:21.900 You know, they're so ingrained and in the trenches right now with where they are and they know they

00:25:25.900 want out, but they don't know what the alternative is. They don't know where to climb to. So we can

00:25:33.020 talk a little bit about how we begin to discover what it is that we're supposed to be doing. And

00:25:39.240 then we'll work backwards into now, how do we do it? That's right. Love this. Well, the way to answer

00:25:45.160 the question, why am I on this planet? Why am I here? What am I supposed to do with my life is the

00:25:50.420 discovery process. And there's two key questions you have to answer in discovery. What am I most

00:25:56.540 talented at? Simply put, what do I do better than anything else that I do? Of all the things I do,

00:26:04.100 these are the things I do best. So these are talents and everybody has talent. Everybody's born

00:26:08.880 with talent. For the guys that are dealing with a little doubt, at some point in your life, if you

00:26:13.720 look back, you will remember there were subjects in school that you were naturally good at. If you saw

00:26:19.180 another kid struggling, you'd say, well, that's kind of weird. It comes easy to me.

00:26:23.080 You know, as you've gotten older, people compliment you. You're a great listener.

00:26:27.240 You're a really good communicator. Man, you're really good with your hands. You just come in

00:26:31.260 and fix anything, whatever it is. What are we naturally good at? That's what we do best.

00:26:36.460 And so you want to list out what you believe are your top talents, strengths, or skills. What are they?

00:26:43.180 Literally get out a piece of paper, guys, and write talents, strengths, skills. I don't care what you

00:26:48.660 call them, but it's a combination of all three of those things. And then underline it and then go

00:26:53.760 down and list them out. I don't care if it's seven or five or three. What do you do best?

00:26:59.360 Then you go to the other side of the paper and you write passions. You underline passions. And now

00:27:04.780 on this list, I want you to write down the work, the results, the functions, the roles that bring you

00:27:14.440 joy. So you say, oh, well, I love solving problems. When I'm, when I'm, when I'm tinkering around on

00:27:18.500 Saturday mornings on my car, four hours goes, and I thought it was 40 minutes. This is what we're

00:27:22.440 looking for. Work, roles, functions, tasks that bring me joy. When I'm in the middle of them,

00:27:30.380 it gives me juice. I love it. I look forward to it. I don't want to quit. I can lose track of time.

00:27:36.240 So list those out. Now we've got two lists and I think it's really important at this step that you

00:27:46.060 get with somebody who really knows you well, but who is also a truth teller. They're not going to

00:27:52.000 just tell you what you want to hear. Not the friend who's the yes man who always makes you feel like a

00:27:56.660 million dollars. I want someone who cares about you enough to tell you the brutal truth. And here's

00:28:00.840 what you want to do. You want to show them the list. Hey, this is what I wrote down. This is my top

00:28:04.500 talents, top passions. Do you agree? Is this how you see me? We want to make sure that we are

00:28:10.240 self-aware, that we know how the world sees us. Now this is a, this is an okay process because even

00:28:15.840 if it's, if there's something you left off, or maybe you're, you're giving yourself a higher grade

00:28:20.020 on something that you're not, you're going to get that confirmation in a loving environment. And so

00:28:23.820 now when you get feedback from people who know you well, and who are honest, you have confidence.

00:28:29.280 I've got clarity of the list and they've confirmed the list. And now I have

00:28:34.080 confidence. So now we kind of, we're starting to fight that insecurity. We're going, okay, this is,

00:28:38.920 this is, I know to be true. Now it gets back to you. You get back on that same piece of paper,

00:28:43.860 another piece of paper, and you begin to spend time every day. It gets clearer and clearer,

00:28:48.600 but I want you to try to write out a purpose sentence. And the way you do that is you say,

00:28:52.700 how can I use what I do best to do what I love to do most? You've got the list right there.

00:28:57.420 This is what I do on the phone with callers every day. And when they get it out, I can see things

00:29:02.940 clearly because I'm objective. And so I'm listening to them. And so I, I ask them all these questions

00:29:07.580 and they get to the point where they go, well, I see that. I, I, and I say, well, what would you

00:29:11.840 really love to do now that you know what you do best and you've clarified it and what you love to

00:29:15.740 do most, how can you use what you do best talent to do what you love to do most passion? And so they

00:29:21.700 see that and they go, well, you know, I'm, I'm great at problem solving and, um, I'm really creative.

00:29:27.780 Um, but I'm also really good with my hands. So, uh, and I go, yeah. And you also said that

00:29:34.080 your top passions where you love fixing stuff, you love carpentry, you know, and I've had guys who,

00:29:40.100 you know, were in accounting, realize that they, what they want to do is become a carpenter. They

00:29:44.700 want to, they want to do house renovations. Again, if I could do that all day, every day,

00:29:48.640 I would just absolutely lose my mind. I could work on my own pace, you know, and I'm, I'm building

00:29:53.900 stuff, fixing stuff, making it better. And you got to be creative, uh, to do that kind

00:29:58.700 of thing. And so anyway, the point is, is whatever it comes out to for you all, as you

00:30:03.720 do this, you're going to have tremendous breakthrough because the brain, when it begins to focus on

00:30:08.760 this kind of thing, it will reveal dealing with truth and you're seeing a formula. And

00:30:13.160 so a purpose sentence goes like this. I'm going to use my top talents of blank, blank and blank,

00:30:16.600 whatever it is to do blank work. That brings me great joy. The results of that work matter

00:30:25.600 deeply to me. This is not difficult, Ryan. It really isn't, but it just takes discovery

00:30:31.300 and honesty. I'm trying to think where somebody might get hung up in this process. Cause it is

00:30:36.380 a simple process. And two things come to mind as I think about this. Number one, I can hear somebody,

00:30:40.500 uh, having a whole lot of uncertainty about, let's say they develop something, they come up with

00:30:46.220 something. Hey, I want to, I want to remodel homes. I want to build houses. I want to be a

00:30:49.940 professional hunter, whatever that thing is. Now there's going to be a lot of uncertainty about,

00:30:54.140 Hey, I don't know how to do this. I don't know if this is right. And the second consideration I

00:30:58.600 would think is that somebody might get into the trap of believing or thinking, what if this is wrong?

00:31:04.720 Am I pigeonholing myself by traveling or at least exploring this path? Do you run into that? Or is

00:31:10.420 there other things that guys are dealing with? Yeah. You nailed two of the biggest issues right

00:31:14.420 there. So that's why I have a call in radio show because people, they, they, they want to have the

00:31:18.980 objectivity and they want to make sure that they are in fact not delusional. So again, once you begin

00:31:26.560 to fill that out, you, you have to have confidence that I've talked to people that know me well,

00:31:31.580 I'm not delusional. I know for a fact, I have these talents and I know for a fact, I have these

00:31:35.360 passions. Uh, what really starts to happen now is can I actually pull this off? I don't know how to

00:31:41.920 start or I don't know how to get there. That's where the proximity principle comes in. So let's

00:31:47.220 go to those two, those two things that could be answered with one solution. I need to now go sit

00:31:54.060 around some guys, take them to coffee, have lunch with them. You know, I want to be around people

00:31:58.940 that are doing what I want to do. That's what the proximity principle is. In order to do what I want

00:32:03.160 to do, fill in the blank guys, I need to be around other guys or gals that are doing it. And then I need

00:32:09.040 to be in places where this craft is happening. So this could be a, a training school, an

00:32:13.420 apprenticeship. It could be, you know, online webinars. It could be, you know, like I need to

00:32:18.520 just get in here. Why? And this answers your question. Here's why. Because any doubt or fear

00:32:23.660 that you have will be relieved with information. But you see, when you first fill out that purpose

00:32:29.340 sentence, you're left alone. You go, Oh boy, can I actually do this? How do I pull this off? Well,

00:32:33.540 how did Ken Coleman, who did have, who had no broadcasting degree and no broadcasting connections,

00:32:40.120 how did I get where I'm at by practicing the proximity principles? So I found guys that were

00:32:44.780 in broadcasting. I went and took a broadcasting class with a bunch of 20 year olds. I was 33 years

00:32:49.080 old, three weeks in before the guys knew I wasn't an instructor. Stopped calling me sir.

00:32:53.700 I remember reading that. So, you know, that really happened and I had to start from scratch,

00:32:59.380 but here's what happened. I got less and less fearful and less and less doubtful.

00:33:03.720 And then here's the other thing. It's not just getting information. So it's a two-part answer.

00:33:07.640 I need to get around people that are doing it in places to get information. What does the possible

00:33:11.680 path look like? How much time is it going to take me? How much is it going to cost? These are all

00:33:16.820 things guys that when you get these answers, it's not so scary. Oh, okay. Well, how long would it take

00:33:21.560 me to save up? And can I do that with my current life schedule? How long is it going to take me?

00:33:26.560 All of a sudden, we're not so scared. Now that's just information.

00:33:28.620 That's what proximity does. It gives me information. Now, the other thing that proximity does

00:33:33.260 is it allows me to test and confirm. So for instance, let's just make up an imaginary guy

00:33:39.960 and let's just say that he loves working with cars. Okay. And so we know he's creative. He's got

00:33:50.240 some problem solving skills. He's good with technology. What he loves more than anything

00:33:57.040 is tinkering with cars, messes around with his engine and likes to do this. And so we get into

00:34:01.540 that. But we also know that he loves doing body work and he loves restored cars. So now is this guy

00:34:07.660 going to work as a mechanic or is he going to be an auto body? Is he going to be that kind of guy?

00:34:11.460 So I want him to go sit down with people in both of those spaces, mechanics, auto body. And I want him

00:34:18.860 to sit on talking. But I also want him to actually volunteer his time if he has to, or work on the

00:34:23.480 weekend for a local auto body shop and go in and start doing some fabricating or just say,

00:34:27.680 hey, can I follow you around for two hours? And most of the time people are going to go, sure.

00:34:33.640 Right. They want to share their stuff, what they're passionate and excited about.

00:34:36.260 They love it. So here's what happens when you begin to test and just put yourself out there

00:34:41.080 in a very low risk situation. In fact, no risk. Okay. You're going to get confirmation that it is

00:34:48.400 what you want to do or confirmation that it isn't what you want to do. So we don't have to quit our

00:34:54.480 jobs. We don't have to sell the house. We don't have to move the kids to Missouri. Right. We get to

00:34:59.560 actually wade into this a little bit and get in proximity. And that's what I mean by around the right

00:35:05.440 people and in the right places. And then we're going to get confirmation. So I started hanging

00:35:09.140 out, you know, with some broadcasting buddies and all it did for me, Ryan was like, it was like

00:35:15.220 super juice. I was like, yes, I would love this, you know? And, and it confirmed for me that I wasn't

00:35:21.760 delusional and my heart revealed the answer. See, your question was spot on, but guys, what Ryan is

00:35:29.460 addressing here is our brains. When our brains get involved, we start thinking of all the reasons why we

00:35:33.220 shouldn't do it, why we can't do it. The hurdles, the financial hurdles, the schedule hurdles,

00:35:38.000 that's natural, but you got to allow your brain to listen to your heart first. And once the heart

00:35:44.680 confirms, this is in fact what you should be doing, then your heart's going to tell your brain,

00:35:50.160 Hey, brain, figure out a way to do it. Yeah. You got to have both, right? I think sometimes we're

00:35:55.320 allowed to believe that it's just passion and look that, that that's not a prudent strategy. I mean,

00:35:59.520 you might be excited and hopped up about it, but unless you have some, some thought about it,

00:36:03.980 it may not be a prudent way to approach this thing and vice versa.

00:36:07.860 That's right. Yeah. You got to use your head and your heart, but let's use the head for what we,

00:36:11.980 what we were given it for. And that is to think, to plan, to strategize, let's not let the brain

00:36:20.700 overrule the heart and, and, and vice versa, you know, don't just use your heart cause you're going to,

00:36:25.060 you're going to just make some really dumb moves, you know, but the heart is about confirmation.

00:36:30.120 The brain's about execution.

00:36:33.400 Gents time out real quick on the conversation. I want to talk with you about a concept called the

00:36:37.700 wild man from, uh, the story, iron John and Robert Bly's book, iron John. Uh, the wild man is the man

00:36:45.200 inside that we've either silenced or even worse, maybe allowed society to silence for far too long.

00:36:51.380 Uh, and it's the part of us that we need to learn to let out of the cage more often. Uh, he's our

00:36:57.240 competitive, aggressive, dominant, and wild nature. And in the right circumstances and context

00:37:03.700 can be used as a powerful force for growth and expansion in our lives. But most of us have allowed

00:37:10.300 ourselves to be domesticated for far too long and have shut down the very elements that might just

00:37:18.120 give us a competitive advantage wherever we may be showing up. And that's why we're talking about

00:37:23.140 this wild man inside of our exclusive brotherhood. It's called the iron council. Uh, we're discovering

00:37:28.600 how to acknowledge and explore and unlock him within ourselves and tap into the masculine roots

00:37:36.040 that we've bound and chained and shackled and at the systematic conditioning of society.

00:37:42.120 And on top of the discussions, we're discovering how to acknowledge, explore, and unlock him within

00:37:50.100 ourselves and tap back into the masculine roots that we've bound and chained and shackled at the

00:37:56.920 systematic conditioning of society. And on top of those discussions, uh, we're challenging ourselves

00:38:02.680 500 men to push harder and further than we have potentially for years with a goal of accomplishing

00:38:08.040 huge things in our lives. So if you want to join the discussion and you want to be part of the

00:38:12.840 challenges and you want to have that level of accountability and camaraderie and brotherhood,

00:38:17.140 that's going to take you to the next level, then band with us at order of man.com slash iron council.

00:38:23.120 Again, order of man.com slash iron council. You guys can do that after the show and learn more

00:38:29.040 about the wild man and be pushed in new ways. But for now, let's get back to my conversation with Ken.

00:38:33.740 I mean, I really liked this, this proximity principle. And I think most people, if not all

00:38:40.080 of them who are successful have used this, maybe not have articulated it, but I'm trying to think

00:38:44.280 about, you know, my own, my own personal situation. Uh, when I was a financial advisor, um, and I really

00:38:50.020 wanted to start a podcast because it sounded intriguing to me, you know, kind of like what you're

00:38:54.280 talking about here. Uh, I went to a, uh, financial blogging conference and got around, uh, financial

00:38:59.600 bloggers who were, they were podcasting, they were blogging, they were using digital

00:39:03.720 media to, to get their information out. And I, and I, it just resonated with me. So I did

00:39:07.840 it. Uh, and then, and then I decided to start a separate podcast, which is the one the guys

00:39:13.300 are listening to right now, order of man. And I joined a mastermind of other podcasters.

00:39:19.140 And because I got around them, they gave me insights and ideas and strategies I hadn't considered

00:39:23.480 before. And I saw what they were doing. And I only got more excited about it and more excited

00:39:27.260 about it and switched from like you were talking about earlier that 95, five to 80, 20 to 70,

00:39:34.440 30 and so on and so forth. And now here we are a hundred percent in the opposite direction than

00:39:38.920 when I was even just a year ago. Right. Let me interview you for a second. Cause I think it's

00:39:42.940 important. Your audience knows you and trust you. Tell me the range of emotions. Walk, walk us through

00:39:49.280 for a second. When you first went to that financial blogger conference, and then you got in the

00:39:53.100 mastermind, what were your emotions? Like the thoughts, what were they before you connected?

00:39:58.940 And then after you connected? Well, before I connected, I felt like something was missing.

00:40:03.980 I felt like, you know, I had, I had some purpose attached to what I was doing. I felt like the work

00:40:09.960 I was doing with regards to financial planning was noble work, but I felt like there's just something

00:40:13.980 more. And then I was, I don't know, destined or called for something more. And yet wasn't stepping

00:40:19.040 into that. A lot of uncertainty about going to the event. Why am I wasting my time and money here?

00:40:25.320 And this is, this is stupid. I shouldn't be doing this. I could be at home working on my business or

00:40:30.440 being with my family. So there was a lot of that. But during the conference itself, I was really

00:40:36.760 edified and uplifted about the decisions I was making and realizing that, you know, I might actually

00:40:41.680 be on the right path here. And I felt really, really good about that. Got some insights and man,

00:40:46.920 just decided to launch the podcast. And frankly, I haven't looked back since there's still uncertainty

00:40:52.000 on certain days, but never so much uncertainty that I don't think I'm on the right path. It's

00:40:56.660 never been like that for the past four years. So you go from having a lot of doubt. I did some of

00:41:01.520 the doubt still there, but the excitement outweighs the doubt. That's what you went through.

00:41:04.680 Yeah. A hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah. I just, I just want people to hear that from you.

00:41:08.340 You know, there's, there's no magical formula here. You know, the proximity principle is not this,

00:41:13.060 you know, pie in the sky, feel good chant. You know what I mean? It's just straight up,

00:41:18.540 I'm going to get there and get around those people. And you walked away and made some huge

00:41:23.040 decisions. And you weren't as scared, I'm guessing either, because you had some ideas and some real

00:41:28.340 strategies that you could put in place. Well, I think the way I would describe it is that I was

00:41:33.240 still scared, but I was equipping myself with the knowledge, information, tactical strategy to

00:41:39.240 overcome the fear that existed. There you go. You weren't paralyzed. Sure. Yeah. I think that's a,

00:41:44.180 that's probably a more, a better way to say it. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. Fear never

00:41:47.860 disappears. Let me be clear. It never disappears, but, but you know, there are times where purpose

00:41:55.020 and exhilaration and passion completely outweigh fear to where fear does disappear pretty quickly.

00:42:01.800 And that doesn't mean it leaves you, but it can dissipate. Well, and that's what I've noticed even now

00:42:06.260 is that when I do have levels of doubt and insecurity that creep in and pop up, I'm able

00:42:11.040 to silence those relatively quickly, quickly, and a lot quicker than I used to be able to do

00:42:16.520 because there is, because I do have the information. I do have the proximity. I do know people I'm well

00:42:22.420 connected. I'm putting myself in the right places. So let's talk about that because we've

00:42:27.480 talked about, okay, I've got this idea where, where I think I want to pursue. Now I need to start

00:42:33.680 this proximity principle. So, so if you would, one thing I really liked about this segment is you

00:42:39.460 actually broke it down into five categories of people that we should be looking for. This is

00:42:44.520 very tactical. It's very tangible. It's easy for people to recognize and see. So break down those

00:42:50.040 categories for us if you would. Sure. Well, you, you've got five people, the professors,

00:42:55.860 the professionals, the producers, the peers, and the mentors. And, you know, I won't try to unpack

00:43:02.820 all of that for you folks right now. You can dive into it, but let's look at professors. So these are

00:43:08.160 people that don't necessarily have to be in a educational, traditional educational environment,

00:43:13.520 meaning are they an actual professor of a class at a college? They can be certainly, but it's really

00:43:20.460 what I'm trying to describe in this archetype for people is somebody who has the knowledge of what

00:43:26.620 you need to know and how you need to do it, what you need to know. So, and then, then how we use that

00:43:32.260 knowledge. And so this is really important. So again, I'll tie it back to my journey. I didn't know

00:43:38.120 anything about broadcasting and thought I was heading into politics and was planning that and preparing

00:43:44.180 for that and realized that it was broadcasting. And, and so I was like, well, I don't know anything

00:43:50.360 about broadcasting from a technical standpoint. And so I took a broadcasting school and I knew that

00:43:56.540 this was a, this guy was a local television producer. And yet in this role, he was teaching

00:44:02.200 me. He was the actual professor. And so what do I need to know that this is a big question early on?

00:44:08.600 What do I need to know? What, what, what knowledge do I need? What skills do I need? How do I get

00:44:13.820 those skills? How do I use the skills? You're looking for somebody who has the heart of the

00:44:17.480 teacher and actually the expertise, the ability to teach, and they want to teach you. And so that's

00:44:23.620 a warm person. You find the right professor. It is a game changer. A lot of momentum early on in the

00:44:29.400 journey can be well before we move on to the next one. And I think this is going to tie in nicely to

00:44:33.680 all of them. I think one of the concerns men have as they're looking for people to potentially

00:44:38.900 learn from is that they don't have anything of value to add to the other individual.

00:44:44.480 So rather than trying to find something valuable to offer or have it be a reciprocal relationship,

00:44:49.420 they disengage altogether. Yeah, I think you're right. This is pride. You're absolutely

00:44:54.200 spot on here on pride. So let me try to blow that up. The professor, I mean, just a moment ago,

00:45:01.680 I said, this is also somebody who likes to teach and wants to instruct. So Jeff Batten,

00:45:07.620 he didn't look at me when I showed up for my pre-class interview and say, you're not 20.

00:45:14.480 He didn't discourage me and say, what are you doing here? It's a little too late in life for

00:45:17.860 you, bub. Why don't you go back to doing what you're doing? Jeff was like, hey, man, I'm honored

00:45:24.080 that you're willing to take this class. I think you've got a long journey ahead of you. Obviously,

00:45:27.560 you're starting later than most, but I feel very confident that not only am I going to teach you the

00:45:31.940 basics, I'm going to be able to connect you to some key people and get you some great experience.

00:45:36.680 Jeff wanted to teach. And so I didn't need to offer Jeff anything. Now, in this particular

00:45:41.480 situation, I paid Jeff. So you know what the value is? I paid him. Right. Monetary exchange. Sure.

00:45:46.740 Yeah. So guys, get over yourself. You don't have to go in offering a bunch of things. You can say,

00:45:50.880 hey, here's the deal. I need to learn this. Are you willing to teach me? So who's teaching your craft?

00:45:59.880 This is not that difficult. Now, what you're talking about, this value proposition, that is

00:46:05.180 something that you're going to feel more when you're reaching out for a mentor. Again, I'll just

00:46:10.660 jump ahead to that. Same thing. The mentor gets value out of mentoring you. Anybody who's ever mentored,

00:46:17.680 or quite frankly, anybody who's ever taught, if you've ever taught a class in church, if you've ever

00:46:21.740 spoken on a stage and taught a lesson, you always get more out of it than the audience does.

00:46:26.580 So, so I'm glad you brought that up because you don't need to walk in with a value proposition.

00:46:32.360 You need to walk in with a spirit of humility and a spirit of gratitude that is value enough

00:46:38.720 because a true professor and a true mentor is going to say, I love it. I'm happy to share with

00:46:45.620 you what I know. And I would also add too, in the spirit of humility, like you mentioned, is

00:46:50.260 one of the best things you can do is to just implement the advice of your mentor.

00:46:56.700 Like if it, for example, if you come to a mentor and you ask for advice and you ask for, for, for

00:47:02.240 specifics and getting to a field or a practice or whatever it may be, and they give that to you,

00:47:07.420 and then you don't implement it. That is an opportunity wasted to add value to that individual.

00:47:12.400 You want to edify and uplift a mentor, then do what he or she says,

00:47:16.480 and then return and report how that actually worked. And I'm telling you that goes a long

00:47:20.980 way to build out a very beneficial relationship for both of you.

00:47:24.620 No question about it. It's a great point. They will invest in you as long as they see

00:47:29.340 an ROI, return on investment.

00:47:32.180 A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Let's, let's go into, into places, you know, again,

00:47:37.000 just in the spirit of not going too deep into this, because guys, there's a book you can just

00:47:41.680 buy and read that we'll get into this more specifically. Let's get into some of the places that

00:47:46.300 we ought to position ourselves in order to, uh, pursue this passion or this interest that,

00:47:51.280 that we're, uh, we're engaged in.

00:47:53.320 Yeah. The first place in the book, second section is, is the place where you are. And I'm most excited

00:47:59.860 about this one because again, this is, this is one that I think a lot of people, not just guys,

00:48:04.260 we overlook this. Uh, let me give you an example and then I'll teach on it. I got a phone call about

00:48:09.740 three, four months ago from a guy, uh, in Charlotte, North Carolina. And he said, Ken,

00:48:14.180 I need your help. Um, because I've always, I know now what I want to do. I've always loved

00:48:18.760 video production. I'd love to eventually produce television, movies, things of that nature. I love

00:48:23.480 video production and I'm good at it. So I know it's in my sweet spot using my talents to perform

00:48:28.840 my passions. He says, the problem is I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. I got three kids.

00:48:33.400 I got a mortgage and it's just not realistic for me to move to Los Angeles right now.

00:48:38.980 And I paused for a second. I went, I got some great news for you, bro. You don't have to move

00:48:45.140 to Los Angeles. I paused again and I could hear his brain. I could literally hear the gears grinding.

00:48:52.800 Okay. I think Ken is confident about this. I'm not sure I agree with him, but okay, I'm game.

00:48:59.360 And I let him soak on it for a half second. Okay. And then I said, how many production companies do

00:49:05.180 you think are in Charlotte, North Carolina off the top of your head? And he started chuckling

00:49:09.720 because now he knew where I was going and I, he goes dozens. I'm sure I go promise you there's

00:49:15.020 dozens. Okay. I said, you need to figure out a way to replace your current income working for a

00:49:25.680 production company in Charlotte. We now know that movies, you know, every state in the country has

00:49:30.320 incentives to try to get Hollywood to come to their state. They give them tax breaks, you know,

00:49:36.600 company. We don't even realize how many movies and television shows are shot all around us,

00:49:41.080 no matter where we live. And then again, I said, I said, I said, how many local commercials do you

00:49:46.440 notice every night you're watching TV? He goes, oh, a bunch. I go, they're pretty awful. Some of them,

00:49:49.740 aren't they? He goes, oh yeah. I go, you know who's producing those? I said, small production

00:49:53.600 companies. I said, you see really good local commercials? He goes, oh yeah. I said, who's producing those?

00:49:57.560 He said, good production companies. You know, you got political commercials. So the point is,

00:50:01.760 uh, with websites now, every website that's decent, it's got video on it. Who's making these

00:50:07.660 videos? And he goes, production companies. You know, he's kind of like, you know, like the student

00:50:12.000 who's, yeah, he's had now he knows it, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I looked at him. Well, I didn't look at

00:50:16.800 him. It's over the phone. I said, I said, here's the deal. Everything you need to get started is already

00:50:21.740 around you. And I said, it's the law of the zip code. And I made it up right on the spot. The law of

00:50:27.540 the zip code says that everything you need to get started is already around you. So the first

00:50:33.520 place I talk about in the book is to kind of, again, help fight this doubt. Like, oh, it's too

00:50:38.860 hard of a climb. I can't make this climb because I can't fly to Mount Everest. I can't even afford

00:50:44.040 a ticket to get to the base camp. And that's a bunch of nonsense. You can start training right now

00:50:50.220 to climb Mount Everest right where you are. You can start running. You got sidewalks in your neighborhood,

00:50:54.100 start running. So the analogy holds that no matter what it is we want to do, that there are steps we

00:51:00.820 can take. The early steps can all be done right where you are. So the reason I make that the first

00:51:09.880 place, and I'm excited about sharing that is because I, that will help guys not get locked up

00:51:15.580 and be afraid to take the first step because there is no step four or five, six, seven, eight,

00:51:20.140 and beyond unless there's step one, that first bold step. And that first bold step for me, Ryan,

00:51:25.520 was taking a broadcasting class right in Atlanta, right there. I didn't have to move to New York,

00:51:31.040 didn't have to move to Chicago, didn't have to move to LA. I am living my dream in Nashville.

00:51:36.620 So, and I got started in Atlanta. So the first place is the place where you are. There's always

00:51:41.600 first steps to learn, do, and connect. That's what proximity does, allows me to learn, do, connect.

00:51:46.840 And you can do that where you are. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I think about with,

00:51:51.020 with my podcast, there was a, a friend of mine in, in town, about 20 minutes away from me.

00:51:57.200 And he had started a podcast and had a co-op, like a co-op working space. And he was instructing

00:52:03.580 other people how to start their own podcasts. I mean, a friend of mine right there. I mean,

00:52:08.220 what, what, what an amazing opportunity that was right in front of me and took him up on that

00:52:13.320 offer to sit down and walk through that. And the rest is history, you know, but it's funny though,

00:52:17.520 because what I hear a lot of guys say, or at least think is that because they can't take the greatest

00:52:24.500 step that they would like to, there aren't, they aren't even willing to take the baby step that they

00:52:30.000 probably ought to. I mean, I ran into this in my financial planning practice all the time. I'd have

00:52:34.820 people that say, you know, I want to save a lot of money and I want to invest and do all these great

00:52:38.700 things with my, my finances, but I'm not really in the position I want to be in right now. So I'll

00:52:43.060 just wait till I get there. It's like, well, you'll never get there. It's the same guy who says,

00:52:46.980 you know, I know I need to get strong and lose 30 pounds and I need to go into the gym to do that,

00:52:51.800 but I don't want to go to the gym until I'm fit. It's like, well, that's why we go to the gyms,

00:52:56.360 like start where you can take the steps. So you can take to your point, step four, five, six,

00:53:01.940 seven, and eight, and so on. That's exactly right. You know, there's tremendous momentum after you take the

00:53:06.860 first step and you realize, Hey, I'm not an idiot. I'm not a fool. I didn't fail. I'm not homeless.

00:53:12.140 I didn't starve. I'm going to take step two. You know, it's, it's, there's just something about

00:53:17.660 the momentum of not just surviving, but feeling as though, Hey, I, I actually thrived in this step

00:53:25.780 and I feel like I got what it takes for step two, three, and four. And to your point, uh, you can't

00:53:31.420 take on Mount Everest. You've got to train before you even get a chance. And then you got to hang out

00:53:36.640 a base camp for a while. I mean, it's a journey, man. And I think when we truly understand that,

00:53:42.940 so there's nobody listening right now, Ryan, that disagrees with that statement. Nobody,

00:53:46.700 nobody disagrees as all Ken's Ken's, uh, he's a motivational, you know, mumbo jumbo guy. No,

00:53:52.320 I said it's a journey take a long time, but here's the deal. We agree with me, but then we don't act

00:53:57.800 like we believe that because we, we, we just want it now. We want, we're, we're looking for the express

00:54:03.600 version. Give me the fast pass. No, let me tell you something. It doesn't work that way. But,

00:54:11.980 but here's what I do know. If we take what we believe that it is a journey, that it takes time,

00:54:16.140 then let's actually take some action that is based on that belief. So I'm not going to try to get there

00:54:23.560 in six months. What I'm going to do is spend six weeks taking a course that gives me some knowledge

00:54:31.500 and maybe some experience that I've never had before. And I'm going to be okay taking six weeks

00:54:37.300 and only focusing on that. That's all I'm going to focus on is I'm going to go to a podcast webinar.

00:54:43.420 I'm going to join a mastermind group and I'm only going to do that. And I'm going to be okay with

00:54:48.280 what I learned and who I connect with from that. And then I'm going to sit back and go, okay, great.

00:54:54.400 What can I use from that to help me move forward? And what's the next thing I'm focused on?

00:54:58.380 When I started training for the half marathon last year, I'd never run before in my life

00:55:02.360 ever other than soccer in high school. You know, when you're a kid, you don't even need to be in

00:55:06.580 shape and just run forever. And I can tell you this, I didn't, my first run was not a 30 minute run.

00:55:12.980 My first run was 20 minutes and it wasn't at a 10 minute or a nine minute pace. It was my coach said,

00:55:19.680 don't even look at your watch. Just run really easy. Barely even like just beyond a walk,

00:55:26.440 just do 20 minutes at the slowest pace. That's not a walk. And then we moved up from there,

00:55:32.160 but I mean, it was a week of just really easy 20 minute runs.

00:55:36.420 Yeah. I mean, you just gotta, you just gotta take it with that time. I think,

00:55:38.840 I think the biggest challenge guys having this is what they see on social media is they see that

00:55:44.480 other individuals, well, let me put it this way. They're seeing what they perceive to be

00:55:49.780 overnight successes. You know, for example, if they stumbled across order of man today,

00:55:53.540 they'd never heard it before. They're going to think, Oh man, you know, Ryan's good at podcasting

00:55:58.260 or look at this incredible following. And because they saw it just popped up on their feed. They

00:56:02.820 think that I happen to just pop up. I'm like, this is, this is six years in the making, four years

00:56:08.440 with order of man and two years prior to that in my financial planning practice, where I was testing

00:56:12.880 things that I would inevitably pull over into what we're, we're doing now. And I think what guys want

00:56:18.140 to do is they want to, they want it to be easy for other individuals because then they give

00:56:24.120 themselves an excuse, right? An excuse because it's not, it's not easy for me or I just haven't

00:56:29.980 got lucky yet. I just need to sit back and wait for my lucky, fortunate event to happen. Well,

00:56:35.300 it's not going to happen like that. And very rarely is the guy who's successful, uh, had any stroke of

00:56:41.660 luck, fortunate event. Sure. But he's been able to capitalize an opportunity and, and, and take a full

00:56:47.000 advantage of those opportunities. Well, two thoughts on what you just said, cause you're spot on. Number

00:56:50.980 one, the only person that you guys should be comparing yourself to is yesterday's you. That's

00:56:57.340 it. Compare yourself only to the you of yesterday. Am I better today than I was yesterday? Am I in a

00:57:06.080 better position today than I was yesterday? That, that is great, healthy comparison. Any other

00:57:12.420 comparison is a cancer for your soul? Second thought, um, is, um, that

00:57:19.280 there is no, there is no substitute for consistency. And when I consistently put myself

00:57:29.220 in the right places and around the right people, opportunity actually will find me, not the other

00:57:34.920 way around. And you'll be able to recognize it and capitalize on it. Yes. Yeah. So these fortunate

00:57:40.340 events you're talking about, yes, they're fortunate, but there's only one reason why you and I have had

00:57:43.880 some fortune. The only reason is because we put ourselves in the right place and around the right

00:57:48.900 people. And Oh, by the way, we stayed there long enough to make it work, right? Long enough for the

00:57:55.440 right time to happen. Like here's a simple, silly way to say it. If I am not in the right place,

00:58:01.160 the right time cannot and will not happen. Yeah, I know. I know that's crazy deep. You guys will

00:58:10.760 take you a while to recover over that, but we laugh about that, but think about that for a second.

00:58:17.080 So if you're a guy right now and you're listening, you're going, I I'm, I'm not getting any

00:58:21.200 opportunities. I can't catch a break. I would tell you right now, you're not in the right place.

00:58:25.160 And that's not a magic formula. It doesn't mean that the first time you go to the right place,

00:58:28.580 you're going to get, you know, uh, express shuttle to success. Keep in mind, this formula is right

00:58:34.840 people plus right places stay there and then opportunity happens. So here's the point. When

00:58:41.940 I continue to get there and stay there around the right people, right places, opportunity actually

00:58:46.080 shows up right in front of me. And to your point, Ryan, not only do I see it, I can seize it.

00:58:52.760 It's so true. You know, it's, it's really funny. It reminds me the, uh, a couple of weekends ago,

00:58:56.640 uh, I took my, my two oldest boys to watch a baseball game. And towards the end of the game,

00:59:01.900 the, uh, the home team was behind and they had a runner on first and second, if I remember,

00:59:07.420 and, and two outs. And then it was Oh, and two on this batter. And I'm like, well, this guy's

00:59:13.020 going to strike out. So the pitcher throws a ball, he foul tips it. Pitcher throws another ball,

00:59:17.740 foul tip, throws a couple of balls, throws another strike. He foul tips it. So he's like,

00:59:22.180 just battling, right? Just staying in the game, giving himself a chance. And I swear it must've

00:59:28.660 been 10 pitches into this, uh, into this series. And the guy hits a rope into right field, a double

00:59:36.820 scores, one runner. And it just, now they went on to lose the game after all, but it illustrates the

00:59:44.360 point perfectly. Like he was up there at the plate. He was battling, battling, battling,

00:59:49.640 battling a pitch came in, deflected it off another pitch, deflected it off. And then finally,

00:59:55.060 because he gave himself an opportunity and kept swinging the bat, he was able to give himself an

01:00:00.600 opportunity to line one, uh, into right field. I mean, it's a perfect analogy for what you're

01:00:04.720 talking about here. Absolutely. I love that. I love it. You know what else I love about that

01:00:08.440 baseball analogy is, is, is not only was he battling at the plate in that particular moment in

01:00:13.920 the game, what we didn't see, what you and your kids didn't see was how much batting practice

01:00:19.240 he took that week or he's in there taking cuts, taking cuts, taking cuts, taking cuts.

01:00:25.560 We practice, we take a lot of cuts so that when we get in the game, we can fight off as many pitches

01:00:31.500 as possible. And we know that if I keep swinging at pitches, I'm going to connect with one. And you

01:00:36.520 know, that's how you do it. And by the way, that's another great analogy, because there's times where

01:00:40.040 you're going to hit a single, right? And you wanted to hit a triple shut up or, or sometimes you're

01:00:46.240 going to hit a pop fly and, and the game's over, you know, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

01:00:50.560 Yeah. Or strike out and really miss the bad curve ball. I can't tell you how many times I bailed out

01:00:54.660 of the batter's box with a curve ball. I was bailing out like a scaredy cat and, you know,

01:00:59.240 those days are going to happen, but I'm at the plate. I'm right where I'm supposed to be. I got a

01:01:03.180 bat. I'm ready to go. I love that analogy. That's really rich.

01:01:06.560 Yeah. Well, Ken, I appreciate the conversation. I know guys are going to get a lot from this. This is just,

01:01:11.040 uh, guys, we're just scratching the surface. I mean, in going through this book and knowing a little

01:01:14.600 bit more about what Ken's about and his radio show and everything else he's doing, I'm telling you,

01:01:18.880 if you guys feel like you're in the position of, you know, something's missing, right? Like you're

01:01:24.520 doing this work and you're not engaged and it's not calling to you. And maybe you're not making

01:01:28.480 the kind of money you feel you want to be making. Then Ken, I really appreciate you as a resource

01:01:32.660 because this is what guys need for sure. Well, thank you. I enjoy this. I'm passionate and I just want

01:01:37.620 guys to believe there is a role and they can get that. Right on. Well, Hey, as we wind down,

01:01:42.660 let me ask you those couple of questions that I, that I prepped you for a little bit. The first

01:01:46.000 one, uh, is what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a man? What a heavy question

01:01:51.680 that is. Uh, I think it means that at the end of each day, after you've worked hard for the right

01:02:07.700 reasons, the right work for the results, for the people that it supports, whether that be the

01:02:14.680 customer or the family, that you're exhausted, you're exhausted mentally and emotionally because

01:02:23.660 you've given it your all doing something that matters deeply to you. But then you come home

01:02:28.440 and you step right in and you're helping out with dinner, the dogs, the kids and homework,

01:02:35.020 and you're a hundred percent there. And then you get the kids in bed, which is also emotionally

01:02:40.180 exhausted, exhausting. And, and when the kids are in bed, then, then we got to sit down with the wife

01:02:46.620 and make sure she gets her words out and that you're leaning into her and, and, and whatever role

01:02:52.260 she's in, whether it's in the home or out of the office, excuse me, out of the home and you're

01:02:57.340 leaning into her. And, and so now you're really, really emo. You've got nothing else. You've given

01:03:03.180 everything you can, uh, to everybody else and you walk in whatever your nighttime routine is and you

01:03:12.140 get in that bed. And when you get in that bed, you're just like a balloon that's just lost all of

01:03:17.280 its air and you just emotionally and physically and spiritually exhausted in a good way because

01:03:24.580 you've given everything you can. I think that's what it means to be a man. You paint, you paint an

01:03:30.000 amazing picture. That's a great scene. Something I strive to be like. I appreciate that for sure.

01:03:34.720 Well, Ken, how do we connect with you? Get a copy of the book and then, uh, tune into the radio

01:03:38.560 show and anything else that you have going on. How do we connect? Yeah. Ken Coleman.com is the

01:03:42.300 website. We've got some great resources, uh, that are free there for folks that can really

01:03:47.540 help you in your journey. Uh, that's where you can get all the information on the Sirius

01:03:51.160 XM show. Sirius XM 111 is where we're live every day at two Eastern. And then we podcast

01:03:58.560 each daily show as well. And you can just get that, uh, Apple podcast or quite frankly, anywhere

01:04:05.140 that podcasts are available. Uh, and so that's a great resource as well to not only listen to,

01:04:11.940 uh, but to share if you've got some guys that are struggling with identity and confidence

01:04:16.540 and all those things. And then of course the book is the proximity principle. Uh, it really

01:04:21.360 is a practical plan. I'm going to walk you by the hand up to the right people and into

01:04:27.640 the right places and show you that doing work you love and getting there is not the impossible

01:04:33.100 task. And I want as many people as possible to get this so that there's hope that there is

01:04:38.040 a role and hope that there is a plan. So, uh, that's where you can connect social media.

01:04:42.800 We're on YouTube. Uh, we've got clips of the show every day on YouTube, Ken Coleman show,

01:04:47.060 Instagram at Ken Coleman show, Twitter at Ken Coleman, Facebook, Ken Coleman show. So I think

01:04:52.080 that's everywhere. Uh, but Ryan, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to have a conversation. And I want

01:04:56.540 to say that the work you're doing is as valuable as anything that's happening in a podcast or in a

01:05:03.380 broadcast for men to get the message that you're sharing. So I'm honored and privileged, but I also

01:05:08.180 wanted to say what you're doing really, really matters. Thank you, Ken. That means a lot. I will

01:05:12.920 definitely link everything up. So the guys know where to go. And likewise, the work that you're

01:05:16.860 doing and the level of appreciation that I have for you and what it is you're doing has certainly

01:05:20.680 helped, uh, me, you know, to, to be a better father and husband business owner. And as I read

01:05:25.740 proximity principle, it's really opened my eyes up to some things that maybe I knew, but I didn't quite

01:05:31.120 know how to articulate. And then also some things I didn't know, which I'll be able to implement in

01:05:35.600 my life as well. So I definitely appreciate you taking some time to share with us today.

01:05:40.880 There you go, gentlemen, my conversation with the one and only Ken Coleman about the proximity

01:05:44.880 principle. I think all of us were probably to some degree, uh, at least, at least somewhat familiar

01:05:50.160 with the idea of the proximity principle, uh, which is being in the right place at the right time and

01:05:55.100 knowing the right people and having access to the right information and knowing what you want. And

01:05:59.080 of course, all the things that we talked about on the podcast today, I would highly, highly encourage

01:06:03.460 you to pick up a copy of the book. I've read it personally. Uh, and I can tell you, I'm going to

01:06:08.020 be implementing some things in my life to help further this cause and further this movement.

01:06:12.640 And I'll tell you, there has not been a single thing in my life that hasn't involved networking,

01:06:19.360 that hasn't involved, uh, being in the right places that hasn't, uh, involved having the right

01:06:25.220 connections and through Ken's work and the book and everything that we talked about today.

01:06:30.520 I know I'm going to be more capable because I'm going to be in the right places at the right time.

01:06:35.180 And I'm going to deliberately and intentionally put myself in those situations. So make sure you

01:06:40.080 check that out. Also, as we part again, just a, a bug in your ear, if you will, for the event that

01:06:46.140 we're going to be doing in July in Maine, you may want to look at clearing your schedule that last

01:06:51.400 weekend of July, because I'm going to show you our new homestead, if you will. And we're going

01:06:56.240 to put together a phenomenal, phenomenal event, uh, filled with iron council guys and order of man

01:07:02.380 guys. I'm thinking we're probably going to cap it around 200 guys. So if you are going to come,

01:07:08.140 you're going to want to sign up quick. So make sure you subscribe. Uh, also make sure you follow

01:07:11.920 me on Instagram. That's where I'm most active at Ryan Mickler, M I C H L E R. Uh, because when I get

01:07:18.940 you the final dates for our event, uh, that's where I'm going to do it. So make sure again,

01:07:23.840 you're following me on Instagram. Twitter's the same at Ryan Mickler. And I'm, I'm very active on,

01:07:28.080 uh, on both of those. Anyways, guys, that's all I've got for you. Go pick up a copy of the book,

01:07:32.640 subscribe, leave a rating review, uh, band with us, continue to share this movement,

01:07:36.580 honored to be on this path with you. Uh, we're doing great things when it comes to reclaiming and

01:07:41.220 restoring masculinity in this society that it definitely needs to be reclaimed and restored.

01:07:46.080 So until tomorrow for our ask me anything, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant

01:07:52.780 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:07:57.940 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 14, 2019

The Power of Proximity ｜ KEN COLEMAN

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