Order of Man - The Right Kind of Crazy

00:00:00.000 We all know the world can be a dangerous place, and if a man hasn't prepared himself for all

00:00:04.700 that may come up, frankly, he's just shirking his role and responsibility as a man. It's

00:00:09.560 in our nature, after all, to protect and provide and preside, and yet so many men seem completely

00:00:15.360 and utterly incapable of doing so. Today, I'm joined by my friend, repeat guest and

00:00:20.980 former Navy SEAL, Clint Emerson. We talk about our nature as men, how society has seemed

00:00:26.340 to go soft, why hazing, of course, in the right context, is good for men in culture, keeping

00:00:31.920 ourselves and others safe in dangerous environments, and ultimately our need to evolve as men.

00:00:37.460 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:42.500 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:48.080 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This

00:00:54.380 is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said

00:00:59.440 and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name

00:01:04.360 is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast and the movement that

00:01:08.800 is Order of Man. I want to welcome you today. I've got a very good one lined up for you today.

00:01:13.300 I interviewed and had a conversation with my friend, Clint Emerson, a couple of weeks ago

00:01:17.560 at SHOT Show, and you're going to hear that in just a minute. If you're new and you're joining

00:01:21.900 us, welcome. This is a show designed to give you the tools and the resources and guidance,

00:01:27.600 direction, and conversations to be in this podcast to help you become a more capable and

00:01:32.520 effective man. January marked our highest download month ever. So I want to thank you for that.

00:01:41.460 It means a lot to me. It means a lot to this movement. Frankly, it means a lot to this society

00:01:45.940 because we need this. We need men. Men want to be men. Women want to be with men. And it's my job

00:01:52.320 to give you everything you need to become that kind of man. Now, speaking of conversations,

00:01:57.360 I want to talk with you very briefly. And then we're going to get into the conversation here

00:02:01.660 with Clint about our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar.

00:02:08.280 We've got 500 and I want to say 50 or 60 members at this point in the iron council. And for the month

00:02:14.820 of February, you're going to be working with your band of brothers in the iron council and your battle

00:02:19.900 teams on how to have more powerful conversations with the people that you need to have those

00:02:26.400 conversations with. So this could be your spouse, your children, your boss, your clients, your friends,

00:02:30.780 your colleagues, your coworkers, but how to be truthful with people. Of course, how to do it with tact,

00:02:35.180 how to speak the truth, how to be more assertive and not be so passive, maybe even not be so

00:02:43.140 aggressive and learn how to be more tactful in the way that you approach people with critical

00:02:47.680 and important conversations that need to be had. And you need to be the one having them because if

00:02:52.420 you're not having them, then people aren't looking at you as the leader and the influence that you have

00:02:57.580 the power to be. But in order to do that, you need to be able to communicate true, true ideas,

00:03:02.680 maybe not uncomfortable or excuse me, uncomfortable ideas. You need to be able to share those truthfully

00:03:08.640 with people. And we're going to teach you how to do that inside the iron council. So check it out,

00:03:12.340 order a man.com slash iron council. You can learn more about what we're doing. And of course,

00:03:16.500 join us in the conversation about conversations for the month of February. All right, guys,

00:03:21.260 let's get into the conversation today. I am joined again by Clint Emerson. As I mentioned before,

00:03:25.420 he's a former Navy seal. He's also a New York times bestselling author with 100 deadly skills.

00:03:31.680 And then he's got his new book, the right kind of crazy. He's also a security specialist. His name,

00:03:36.880 of course, is Clint Emerson. He has a combined more than 20 years of military service. He provides

00:03:42.640 personal and corporate safety and security services. He owns a couple of different organizations,

00:03:48.960 escape the wolf. There are corporate safety solutions and training organization. And in fact,

00:03:54.520 they ran security for the president Trump's inauguration, which I'm sure he'll get another invite for

00:04:01.540 another potential inauguration here in coming up next year. Also owns violent nomad, which is

00:04:08.780 focused on, I don't know if this is right, but the darker side of keeping yourself and other safe

00:04:12.980 using the ideas and tactics of the bad guys, violence in order to keep yourself safe. So

00:04:18.260 pretty powerful stuff. Of course, he's the author of 100 deadly skills. And then his newest book,

00:04:22.640 the right kind of crazy, which I like the subtitle. You got to know the subtitle. My life is a Navy

00:04:26.580 seal covert operative and boy scout from hell, which I think is a pretty good description for

00:04:32.340 Mr. Clint Emerson. So I hope you enjoy the conversation.

00:04:36.460 Clint, what's up, brother? How you doing? Glad to make this work. It's been what? A couple of years

00:04:41.320 since we did the last podcast. Has it been? I think so. I don't think we did this. Did we do one for

00:04:46.820 Survival Edition? I think we did. Oh, did we? I believe we did. Well, I can't remember. But I

00:04:51.060 don't remember. It all blurs together, doesn't it? It does. It's crazy. You're doing interviews all

00:04:54.460 the time, doesn't it? Just kind of all intertwine? It all just seems like one long, long ass interview.

00:05:01.240 But it's been good, man. I really enjoy it because I get to have conversations with guys like yourself

00:05:05.040 and other team guys and everybody else who's doing something wonderful in the world. That's awesome.

00:05:10.800 Well, are you still learning? Yeah. I mean, that's... With the number of them that come through,

00:05:14.740 or do you start to hear kind of the same thing? That actually proves to be somewhat of a challenge

00:05:19.740 is making sure that the people I'm talking with do actually have a unique story, something that isn't

00:05:25.840 just regurgitated as what other people have been doing. But as I've gone, I've really tried to be

00:05:32.220 as curious as possible, and that helps me get those valuable lessons out from people.

00:05:37.440 Yeah. I'm guessing as an interviewer, you start getting better and better to try and extract

00:05:41.820 information that hasn't been heard before.

00:05:43.580 Well, the issue that I had initially was I, in a way, wanted to please the person that

00:05:49.000 I was interviewing, so I wouldn't ask tough questions. Or I wouldn't object or throw any

00:05:54.380 sort of red flag against anything they said. And now I'm like, whoa, whoa, hold on. You

00:05:59.340 said this. I don't know if everybody believes that. And so we've got guys walking in front

00:06:04.980 of the camera. We knew that would happen.

00:06:06.640 Yeah, you know. It'll make the video portion of this entertaining.

00:06:09.860 That's right.

00:06:10.300 Yeah. So I'm going to knock it over.

00:06:11.360 How's the new book doing?

00:06:13.240 It's doing good. I've got to say, though, it's... There it goes. There's another one.

00:06:18.280 Yeah. How many before the interview's over?

00:06:20.320 I think we've got three so far.

00:06:22.160 For those of you watching, you should start counting to check your situational awareness

00:06:26.440 on this.

00:06:26.720 That's right.

00:06:26.940 Yeah. For a book that has not gotten any national attention yet, it's actually doing really

00:06:36.440 well. And the national side has been lined up several times. But not just me, many authors

00:06:43.220 are kind of getting hacked by media, right? They focus on impeachment. They'll focus on Iran.

00:06:49.740 And it's very hard to get a little bit of bandwidth when you need it. Right. Compared to like the

00:06:55.300 last books, you know, I had all kinds of great national spots to push it. So considering with

00:07:02.860 none of that yet, it's still out. It's only been out, what, two months?

00:07:05.800 Right. Yeah. Not very long at all. Do you think it has to do with the type of book it is?

00:07:09.500 Because it's different than your previous... Because you have two other books, right?

00:07:12.080 Right.

00:07:12.300 100 Deadly Skills and then 100 Deadly Skills Survival Edition.

00:07:14.820 Correct. Yeah.

00:07:15.680 So it's obviously the right kind of crazy. It's a different book.

00:07:18.780 Yeah. It's a memoir. It still has illustrations in it for all the, you know...

00:07:23.340 For guys like me.

00:07:24.060 Crayon eaters.

00:07:25.040 Well, I'm not a crayon eater, but guys like me nonetheless.

00:07:27.360 Yeah. Yeah. But it's just to keep, you know, it's basically you've got to do things different.

00:07:32.100 You've got to be unique. You've got to have something to offer that's not like all the others.

00:07:36.800 Right.

00:07:36.820 And so, as you and I were discussing, when you've got a lot of seals writing books, well, then

00:07:40.360 I had to put illustrations in mine by a DC Marvel illustrator. I mean, so...

00:07:47.040 Oh, is that right?

00:07:47.700 To set it apart from... Oh, yeah.

00:07:49.140 Because you had somebody else doing it before.

00:07:50.980 Right. I had a storyboard. I had Ted in the first couple of books.

00:07:54.460 Ted, that's right. Yep.

00:07:54.820 And he storyboarded things like Breaking Bad and Walking Dead. And so it's very much more sketch-oriented.

00:08:00.920 Right.

00:08:01.000 Where this... I almost said no easy day. What the hell is it? The right kind of crazy...

00:08:07.260 I was like, whoa, now there's so many seals writing books that you guys are starting to

00:08:10.640 confuse each other's books.

00:08:12.660 God, did I write that book?

00:08:13.900 No.

00:08:14.820 The right kind of crazy has a Marvel kind of vibe to it.

00:08:20.440 Yes.

00:08:21.120 Yes.

00:08:22.040 And Tom is the guy, Tom Mandrake, and I've got to give him all the credit. I mean, that

00:08:26.060 guy is a master of his craft and really good at what he does. He did Superman versus Batman

00:08:31.940 series for DC. You know, he's got his main bad guy he invented 35 years ago is going

00:08:39.940 to be in the next Harley Quinn movie that's coming out.

00:08:42.980 Really?

00:08:43.260 Yeah.

00:08:43.480 It's the main villain.

00:08:44.240 Yeah.

00:08:44.620 I think it's Black Mask, I think, is the villain in that movie. But anyway...

00:08:49.540 So he did all the illustrations for that.

00:08:51.260 Right. Yeah.

00:08:51.580 That's pretty cool.

00:08:52.120 So right kind of crazy, you're reading it, and you're getting the illustrations. And then

00:08:57.220 the third piece to set it apart from all your books is the footnotes.

00:09:01.860 Okay. Yeah.

00:09:02.440 You're reading along, and it's almost like thought bubbles down at the bottom.

00:09:06.280 Right. Right.

00:09:07.000 Or you're reading something...

00:09:08.480 What somebody's thinking.

00:09:09.040 Right.

00:09:09.500 Yes.

00:09:09.940 Yeah. Me.

00:09:10.740 I like that you put... That you left all of the... I think it was the DOD who came in

00:09:17.000 and said, you can say this, you can't say this, right?

00:09:18.900 Right.

00:09:19.060 Is it the DOD who reviews that?

00:09:21.020 Yeah. You send it to the Pentagon, and that process is completely fucked up.

00:09:25.240 Oh, I know.

00:09:25.720 Yeah. They take your book, and then they send it to all the agencies that you've ever served

00:09:31.520 for.

00:09:32.240 And in some cases, agencies you've never even worked with.

00:09:35.160 Right. Yeah. They send it to the FBI, which you work with them. You know, when you're in

00:09:42.100 the JSOC world, you end up touching a lot of inner agency, right?

00:09:45.480 Right. Sure.

00:09:46.120 It's kind of part of the deal. But they don't... I never got a paycheck from them. So it kind

00:09:50.720 of makes you go like, well, why are you reviewing my shit?

00:09:52.640 Exactly.

00:09:52.920 You never paid me. So it's like, the only people that should be reviewing the book is

00:09:57.600 the people you truly worked for to ensure that there isn't any classified. But even

00:10:01.340 though I did a good job, my goal wasn't to tell operations. It was to more humanize, you

00:10:08.420 know, my time in the military. That's the goal of the book.

00:10:11.760 What's the reasoning and the thought behind that idea?

00:10:16.220 Yeah. Well, as you know, and as most people know, the SEAL brand, if you will, is got,

00:10:23.440 you know, it's got a lot of attention. And there's a certain mystique that comes with

00:10:28.220 that brand.

00:10:28.800 No doubt.

00:10:29.040 Yeah. And I just kind of wanted to point out that, hey, you know, it's not about... we're

00:10:33.920 not all knight in shining armor. We're more like pirates. I mean, if you had to compare

00:10:37.660 two worlds...

00:10:38.040 Legalized pirates, right?

00:10:39.300 Yes.

00:10:39.640 Yes. And it's funny because I talk with people and I'll let you get back to your thought

00:10:44.180 here. Don't want to interrupt you. But yeah, you know, a lot of people do think that it's

00:10:50.160 these great guys. It's the superhero. All of them are noble, no bad intentions. And I'm

00:10:55.900 like, man, these guys are operating on a line of like right and wrong, life and death. But

00:11:03.140 this is not something I think a lot of people see or even consider.

00:11:09.260 Yeah, no, I don't think they're used to it. It's one thing I've noticed is I've been out

00:11:13.200 for what, five years now. And when you get out of that bubble and you start to see, you

00:11:19.540 know, what other team guys are doing and everything and everyone's doing great. But you hear the

00:11:24.040 mystique constantly. And to me, I was like, you know what, I'm just going to be me in this

00:11:28.220 book. It's truly sinner versus saint. It's seal versus husband. It's, you know, it has

00:11:37.780 every theme you can think of built into it that I hope resonates and anchors back to the

00:11:44.360 reader in some form or fashion that, yeah, we're all human. We all fuck up. We make mistakes

00:11:49.700 and you either learn from them or you don't like me. I didn't always learn from my mistakes.

00:11:54.640 I just keep on making the same mistake. And, uh, and then you just keep plowing through

00:11:59.600 life. I mean, and, and so it's not to break anything up that everybody thinks it's just

00:12:05.380 to shed a little bit of light on the human side to an occupation in my 20 years. And it's

00:12:10.920 all my personal experience. It has nothing to do with any other team guy that's out. My

00:12:15.960 integrity is not always the greatest. My moral and ethical compass is not always pointing

00:12:20.680 north, you know? So, and those were, you know, those were my choices and, um, and probably

00:12:27.180 the best way to characterize a lot of the stuff in the book is that, you know, bad decisions

00:12:31.060 make for great stories, you know, who tells stories about good decisions, you know what

00:12:36.780 I mean? Like it might be a job you take. That was the best decision I ever made because I'm

00:12:40.940 making a ton of money. Or, you know, I took a left instead of a right and, you know, there

00:12:44.860 was a big accident. That was the best decision I ever made. But when you really think about

00:12:49.120 great stories, it's all based on bad decisions.

00:12:52.020 Well, and I, I think the reason it is, is because nobody resonates with getting everything

00:12:56.980 right. You know, like if they look at somebody and, and, and that person, and it's so easy

00:13:01.680 to do on social media, right? To portray the perfect life and all the right lighting and

00:13:06.120 doing all the right things and you flexing just the right way.

00:13:09.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crush your arms.

00:13:11.160 Right. Crush your arms.

00:13:11.660 Yeah. I got to do that a lot. So, so you see, uh, you see these types of individuals and

00:13:17.300 you think, Oh, well, what the hell's wrong with me? Like this guy's doing this and I'm

00:13:21.040 a, I can't get out of bed on time and I can't be a man of my word. So I think the reason we

00:13:25.540 resonate with truth, real stories, mess ups and all is because we begin to see ourselves

00:13:30.600 in that person. You, in this case.

00:13:32.200 Right. Yeah. It's like, you know, I, you read it, right?

00:13:35.720 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, I lay it out there. I mean, we're talking people by the time you

00:13:40.520 get done reading this book, you know, which way my penis curves, you know what I mean?

00:13:43.200 So, uh, and that wasn't my wife telling that story, by the way, or ex-wife now because of

00:13:49.220 that.

00:13:49.840 Well, it's interesting. You talk about, well, you, and you said seal and husband, right?

00:13:53.460 So, which, which I think in a lot of, in a lot of ways that those do conflict with each

00:13:59.940 other.

00:14:00.720 Would you agree?

00:14:01.920 I, I, once again, you know, cause guys will be like, what the fuck is he talking about?

00:14:06.480 But, you know, my time in, I was raised by guys that were far more barbarian than I think

00:14:13.820 is permitted these days.

00:14:15.500 Is that right?

00:14:16.000 Oh yeah.

00:14:16.540 Within the teams even?

00:14:18.140 Yeah.

00:14:18.440 Okay.

00:14:18.780 I think a lot has changed. You know, when I was in, if you're not cheating, you're not

00:14:22.760 trying mentality was said more often than, uh, the only easy day is yesterday. Right.

00:14:29.340 I mean, now you're not even, buds instructors aren't even allowed to say those words anymore.

00:14:33.960 Is that, do you think that's a, well, there's probably, there's probably two sides to that,

00:14:38.900 right?

00:14:39.220 There is.

00:14:39.580 But, but generally, would you say that's a good thing or not a good thing?

00:14:44.260 I think the culture is what it is and, uh, it's what, it's what sets us apart, right?

00:14:50.900 I mean, um, when we go hang out with Marines or we go hang out with army, you notice a distinct

00:14:59.540 difference, right?

00:15:00.680 What is that difference?

00:15:01.400 Between us and them.

00:15:02.620 Uh, military.

00:15:03.960 We're bearing, we're not the guys that are going to be blousing our boots or worried

00:15:07.360 about our haircuts.

00:15:08.240 Right.

00:15:08.960 And that's kind of where it begins.

00:15:10.260 And that's what sets the culture apart from all the other branches of the military.

00:15:14.500 Seals can tend to do whatever they want.

00:15:16.600 It used to be, we're very rogue, very maverick.

00:15:19.560 Um, you know, we're not, we don't get hung up on the little things.

00:15:22.900 And I think now because of a lot of what's been going on, whether it's because of guys

00:15:27.300 like me writing books or because of disciplinary issues or whatever it is, now they're trying

00:15:32.420 to change the culture.

00:15:33.460 And, uh, I certainly feel like the culture is very important to how you end up inevitably

00:15:40.840 operating.

00:15:41.560 When you want guys that'll truly go just drop the hammer, it's, it's really that culture

00:15:46.780 that is made it so successful.

00:15:49.080 I think it's like that culture is makes you successful, but it also lends to some of the

00:15:54.100 trouble we get into too, you know, and that's, but it's like throwing out the baby with the

00:15:57.540 bathwater, you know, it was like, I look at it from the outside looking in and I was

00:16:01.540 in the military, specifically the national guard and then the army during my deployment.

00:16:05.400 And, but then I look at a guy like you and, and, and other guys that I know.

00:16:08.700 And I think, okay, well, these, these are, these are individuals who aren't entirely

00:16:13.660 civilized like the rest of us.

00:16:15.640 Yeah.

00:16:16.300 And that's what we need.

00:16:17.740 Yeah.

00:16:18.100 Like we need individuals who aren't like that because like you said, you can go drop

00:16:22.700 the hammer.

00:16:23.280 You can do some, some things that need to be done that most people aren't even comfortable

00:16:26.760 with, with acknowledging, let alone doing themselves.

00:16:29.640 Right.

00:16:30.100 And, and it's, it's always really interesting to have somebody complain about that who isn't

00:16:33.600 willing to do the same things you are to maintain some of our, uh, our, our luxuries

00:16:37.920 that we enjoy.

00:16:38.580 It's kind of like that adage of, is it a few good men where, where, uh, Jack Nicholson

00:16:43.180 is talking to you.

00:16:43.820 Oh, you need a stand on the wall.

00:16:45.240 Yeah.

00:16:45.520 Yeah.

00:16:45.780 You need that.

00:16:46.320 And, and then you have other people criticizing that who aren't willing to do it themselves.

00:16:50.580 There is a little bit of truth of that because like that movie, it's attorneys that kind of

00:16:56.380 drive a lot of the change.

00:16:58.580 Right.

00:16:58.940 Um, um, if you look at current news, whether it's guys turning on each other or it's team

00:17:04.480 guys getting in trouble in other parts of the world and, you know, we've heard a lot over

00:17:08.500 the last couple of years.

00:17:10.000 Um, you know, it's the attorneys that come in and say, you know, ultimately it's time to

00:17:16.420 make it official.

00:17:17.100 And, uh, I think it's funny because it goes directly back to that movie because that movie

00:17:21.920 is all about attorneys getting involved in, in culture, in culture.

00:17:25.960 That's that's, and that's the perfect word for it.

00:17:28.000 Cause I know you're friends with, uh, with Mike Ritland and where he talks about, I think

00:17:31.760 at the beginning of his podcast, he always asked about your favorite hazing story, you

00:17:35.700 know, and we look at that and I can't remember what you talked about, but, you know, we look

00:17:39.540 at that and most people think, Oh, how could they do that?

00:17:43.380 That's horrible.

00:17:44.080 And yet that just, that's one, one way for you to become part of the team.

00:17:50.840 It's like, you have to prove yourself through yes, your capability, but also your willingness

00:17:55.940 to toe the line with the rest of the team guys.

00:17:58.940 I imagine.

00:17:59.480 Without a doubt.

00:18:00.080 It's a, I, I, I break it down pretty simple.

00:18:02.840 You, Hey, there's a correct way to haze.

00:18:05.020 No doubt.

00:18:05.400 You know, you don't want to threaten anybody's life or cause injuries.

00:18:07.940 That's number one.

00:18:08.560 Number two is you're going to do it for two reasons.

00:18:12.220 It's either going to be a corrective measure or for celebration.

00:18:16.280 And so if someone has a safety violation or they're not performing the standard, you haze

00:18:20.720 them.

00:18:21.060 Right.

00:18:21.180 Uh, and if they're going to get married or it's their birthday or they're a new guy,

00:18:25.920 which is celebration, you're hazing them.

00:18:27.920 Right.

00:18:28.360 Um, and I, and I say it out loud all the time.

00:18:30.660 If you went through an entire career and never got hazed, you know what that really means?

00:18:34.340 Nobody gave two shits about you.

00:18:36.160 Nobody cared about you.

00:18:36.920 Right.

00:18:37.280 Right.

00:18:37.500 You, they, some, you gave them a feeling that you're the guy that's going to go run to the

00:18:42.160 attorney.

00:18:42.540 You're the guy that's going to go run and tell the chain of command.

00:18:44.900 You're the one that's probably going to go and just create drama.

00:18:48.500 So there are plenty of guys who went their entire career and never got hazed.

00:18:52.760 And then sometimes I hope they hear me say that because then it'll dawn on them that, you

00:18:57.060 know what, you didn't get hazed because people thought something.

00:18:59.620 Right.

00:19:00.040 Something was up with you.

00:19:00.960 Right.

00:19:01.280 You know, I actually think that's a, that's another component of, of the hazing idea is

00:19:04.800 that you need to find out as a team, who's going to be the bitch.

00:19:09.100 Cause, cause when it comes down to life and death situation.

00:19:12.160 Right.

00:19:12.500 You don't want that, you don't want that to be the time finding out who's going to punk

00:19:17.020 out on you.

00:19:17.540 Right.

00:19:18.040 Yeah.

00:19:18.300 I tell people regularly and it's in the book is, you know, I, I, I made it loud and clear

00:19:23.720 in the book that, Hey, I'm not going to sit here and tell you all about buds.

00:19:26.000 You can go read all the other books about that, but I will tell you this.

00:19:28.740 It's not about doing a hundred pushups in a minute.

00:19:31.220 It's not about the four mile time swims and the two, two mile ocean swims and this, this

00:19:36.060 and that.

00:19:36.660 It's about figuring out which guy is going to just man up and do what needs to be done and

00:19:42.480 not sitting in a corner, you know, crying, shitting himself, whatever it is, you know,

00:19:47.420 that's really what it's about.

00:19:49.800 Of course, you're going to have to have a level of human performance in order to keep

00:19:54.160 up with the rest of your team.

00:19:55.560 And you never want to be the standard.

00:19:56.820 Yeah.

00:19:57.180 You never want to be the weak link.

00:19:58.500 I mean, of course.

00:19:59.300 So that's the physical piece.

00:20:00.840 And obviously the competition that comes with it, that extends for the rest of your career

00:20:05.280 and what keeps the ego in check with all that.

00:20:08.800 And I think the community does a good job is that you always feel like you're the new

00:20:12.880 guy, you know, and as long as you maintain the feeling of being the new guy,

00:20:16.640 uh, then it, it, it, it holistically keeps all of those, you know, who's got the bigger

00:20:24.520 dick moments in check because there's always somebody smarter.

00:20:27.460 There's always somebody faster.

00:20:29.280 Uh, there's always somebody who's going to outdo you.

00:20:32.280 And, uh, and it's always a good reminder that, yep, I'm the new guy.

00:20:35.800 And even when I, you know, whether I went from coast to coast where I show up to a new

00:20:39.760 command, you feel like the new guy, right?

00:20:42.020 Yeah.

00:20:42.620 What, what is the, what is that mentality?

00:20:45.280 Like the new guy mentality?

00:20:46.740 If you had to define what that is, what would that look like or, or feel like or, or behave

00:20:50.960 like?

00:20:52.300 It's, it's knowing that you're never as good as you think you are, you know, you, you show

00:21:01.240 up and it's also a respect, uh, to those who have gone before you.

00:21:06.020 So, you know, it doesn't matter if it's a guy who's retired and is salty and been out

00:21:12.120 forever, um, that buds class are in order for a reason.

00:21:17.340 And so if mine is, you know, way behind someone else's, then I'm the new guy in that guy's

00:21:23.120 eyes.

00:21:23.580 Yeah.

00:21:24.080 And it doesn't work for everyone, right?

00:21:26.500 We still got some cocky and arrogant kind of guys that come through and, but for the most

00:21:31.860 part, I have to say that culture breeds that new guy mentality.

00:21:36.520 Even when I was at the 15 year mark, I was like, I'm still feel like a new guy around

00:21:40.300 certain guys.

00:21:41.100 Yeah.

00:21:41.480 Yeah.

00:21:41.680 Which is interesting because it's uncomfortable to be in that position, but that's the only

00:21:46.740 place you can develop and grow.

00:21:48.440 Yeah.

00:21:48.980 Like if you, if you feel like you're no longer the new guy, then you feel like you know it

00:21:53.440 all or more than anybody else.

00:21:56.060 And therefore you're closed minded to learning anything new.

00:21:58.260 That's exactly it.

00:21:59.200 Yeah.

00:21:59.360 That's part of the best way to put it.

00:22:00.740 No.

00:22:00.960 Yeah, it does.

00:22:01.700 Yeah.

00:22:01.980 Yeah.

00:22:02.240 You're, you feel like you're always kind of on eggshells a little bit here and there.

00:22:05.700 Yeah, like skating a little bit, right?

00:22:06.780 Yeah.

00:22:06.880 You're on uneasy territory.

00:22:08.280 Yeah.

00:22:08.680 And, and, and related to exactly what you said, we have another saying, when you start

00:22:13.400 believing what's written in your evals, it's time for you to go.

00:22:16.720 Right.

00:22:17.220 And so, cause evals are written like superb leader and you got all this flowery vocabulary

00:22:22.820 and, and nomenclature that's like, what does that even mean?

00:22:27.180 Gold star performer, you know?

00:22:29.000 And, and there are guys that start to actually believe what's written on those things.

00:22:33.880 Right.

00:22:34.160 And those are the guys and you go, oh yeah, you need to get the fuck out of here.

00:22:36.920 Do you think that there's some level of, I don't know if it's ego or there's a better

00:22:40.980 word to describe, but it seems to me that guys in your position within the teams would

00:22:46.540 need some sort of ego to go do the things that they do.

00:22:51.960 Yeah.

00:22:52.420 Well, I think it's ego is confidence can transition into ego.

00:22:58.120 Okay.

00:22:58.480 Right.

00:22:58.680 Sure.

00:22:59.000 I mean, very quickly.

00:23:00.260 Yes.

00:23:00.640 Based on how well you take praise or, or if you're just one of those guys who looks in

00:23:05.000 the mirror every day, you know, to make sure you look cool or whatever it is.

00:23:07.760 But yeah, I think, I think confidence is certainly necessary, not necessarily an ego.

00:23:14.220 But how do you have confidence in something, you know, whether it's a mission or, or some

00:23:18.620 skillset you're working on that you've never done, let alone excelled at?

00:23:23.380 Well, that goes back to training.

00:23:25.200 Yeah.

00:23:25.560 So you're going to build up that confidence over time.

00:23:27.860 You know, it's very rare that you get thrown into something that you've never actually kind

00:23:31.300 of experienced in one form or fashion, you know?

00:23:33.160 So, you know, you've heard enough SEALs tell you our workups are long.

00:23:37.040 Right.

00:23:37.920 They are, every stage of the workout or workup is back to back to back to back.

00:23:44.140 I mean, you're gone, you know, throughout the workout, work up as much as you are deployed.

00:23:51.060 Right.

00:23:51.300 You know, so the six month deployment or, um, is matched to an 18 month workup where

00:23:59.540 you're traveling the globe, mostly around the United States, and you're basically keeping

00:24:04.400 your skills as, as good as possible so that when you go do your six months, you're, you

00:24:08.720 know, you're at the, you're performing at your best.

00:24:11.400 Right.

00:24:11.540 And this isn't some new situation that you're like, okay, now we turn it on.

00:24:14.760 Like it's been turned on for six months.

00:24:16.740 You're at that point, you're just itching to use it.

00:24:19.080 Right.

00:24:19.680 Yeah.

00:24:19.840 You know, I, I kind of hit that in a book too.

00:24:22.500 When we first went into Iraq, nobody really knew how to use Navy SEALs, but we were there

00:24:27.260 and it was frustrating for us.

00:24:29.240 And at the end of it all, we're like, Hey, you know, the first year or two, it's like,

00:24:33.140 you know, this is the pinnacle, you know, of any soldier's career is war.

00:24:39.200 Right.

00:24:39.520 You can't say that for any other career.

00:24:41.320 No.

00:24:41.740 It's like, this is the performance.

00:24:43.100 We're hoping for it.

00:24:43.960 I want to pull my fucking trigger in anger.

00:24:46.200 Right.

00:24:46.560 So if you, you want to pull the trigger, you want to do real world operations, you want

00:24:51.440 all those things.

00:24:52.240 And that's what you've been training for your entire career.

00:24:54.840 So, um, at the beginning, believe it or not, you hear all these great stories, um, especially

00:25:00.940 task force bruiser and Jocko and all those guys, you know, when they, it took a while for

00:25:06.260 leadership to finally get to the point where you could have a Jocko.

00:25:10.200 It, it, at the beginning, it was people that had no experience and there was a little bit

00:25:16.300 of fear factor there on what the hell are we doing?

00:25:19.260 Where, where is special operations role in all this?

00:25:22.060 When the last time it was really, really leveraged was Vietnam and you didn't have any of that

00:25:26.380 Vietnam experience there.

00:25:27.760 So that first year or two was rough for the seal community because everyone's itching.

00:25:33.100 Everyone wants to put that training.

00:25:34.580 Everyone's take that confidence and, you know, drive it into the face of the enemy.

00:25:37.760 But, you know, nobody knew how to really use it.

00:25:41.260 And so it took some time.

00:25:42.240 And then once we figured it out, obviously once that train left the station, you know,

00:25:45.980 it was, it was barreling down the road of war for, you know, 15 now hell, you know, we're

00:25:51.880 still going.

00:25:52.540 So that's, that's, what's crazy.

00:25:53.800 Yeah.

00:25:54.020 You know, the term you use is that pull the trigger in anger.

00:25:56.360 Is that, is that right?

00:25:57.760 Like, is that, if, if, is that the right term?

00:26:00.180 We just say it.

00:26:01.120 I mean, not everyone's, it's not an emotional thing, but it's kind of a, it's definitely a term,

00:26:06.220 you know, just pull the trigger in anger.

00:26:08.000 You know, maybe it just sounds cool.

00:26:09.520 I don't know.

00:26:09.780 Well, it definitely sounds cool.

00:26:11.120 I'm just wondering if it, like how much you really believe it, you know, that's the,

00:26:14.840 that's the thing.

00:26:15.960 Yeah.

00:26:16.200 I think, or, or, or even better yet is does it accurately describe what's happening?

00:26:21.340 No, I think you could probably take that word anger, subtract the definition of emotion

00:26:27.560 out of it and actually just mean like it's just meaningful, right?

00:26:30.800 You're pulling that trigger for a reason.

00:26:32.820 You're doing it for the greater good.

00:26:36.380 That makes sense.

00:26:37.420 Yeah.

00:26:37.640 Just with, I don't know, maybe like intensity or, or, or, you know, like, like, like the

00:26:42.400 focus that you have, the purpose, you're fulfilling your, your purpose, your priority, your mission.

00:26:47.900 Anger just represents the level of, the level of violence in it.

00:26:52.460 Yeah.

00:26:52.760 And pulling a trigger.

00:26:53.980 Yeah.

00:26:54.140 Which is interesting because anytime you talk about the word violence, you know, that,

00:26:57.220 that, that scares people.

00:26:58.680 Like, oh, violence.

00:26:59.340 Oh, it shouldn't be violent.

00:27:00.580 I'm like, well, sometimes violence is the correct answer and the correct response.

00:27:04.100 I think the difference comes when you're letting anger control the reaction, potentially

00:27:10.560 violence versus being trained, being disciplined, being, having clarity and being focused and

00:27:17.080 then using violence through those means as opposed to an emotional reaction to something.

00:27:22.260 Right.

00:27:23.420 Yeah.

00:27:23.780 I am constantly preaching, as you know, violent nomad and I get questioned all the time.

00:27:27.840 What is that?

00:27:29.160 And I explain it real simple.

00:27:31.720 Violence is usually associated with bad people or bad events.

00:27:34.600 That's it.

00:27:35.240 Yeah.

00:27:35.760 Very, never, no one ever in their mind associates it to a good person using it to get themselves

00:27:41.220 out of bad situation.

00:27:42.340 Right.

00:27:42.660 So violence of action, meaning you are going to commit and you're going to execute and you're

00:27:47.200 going to, you're going to get out of that situation in a violent manner because

00:27:51.640 it has a time, violence has a time requirement almost, you know?

00:27:55.660 Yeah.

00:27:55.940 It's urgent.

00:27:56.800 It's now.

00:27:57.360 Right.

00:27:57.900 And, uh, and it, and it has no hesitation in it.

00:28:01.380 And that's, that's key.

00:28:03.260 Um, and it's okay for good people, you know, to be violent.

00:28:07.320 It's not a bad word, but sometimes it's looked at that way.

00:28:10.340 And so I'm trying to desensitize how violent is perceived with violent nomad and kind of

00:28:15.940 saying, Hey, this is just good people that get out there and do the right thing in a

00:28:19.560 time of crisis.

00:28:20.620 And usually it's because they have figured out that you have to pull the trigger quick.

00:28:25.900 You've got to get time on your side because it's time can become an enemy just as, just

00:28:31.020 as, just as fast as it can be your, your, your ally.

00:28:34.720 Right.

00:28:34.880 You know, and that's in training.

00:28:36.720 That is ultimately our goal is how do you get time on your side?

00:28:40.280 Um, cause time equals, you know, options, option, obviously if you have time to make

00:28:45.220 good decisions, then the odds are it's going to increase your odds of survivability or winning

00:28:51.180 that particular fight.

00:28:52.220 Sure.

00:28:52.600 Yeah.

00:28:52.820 I can't remember who it was.

00:28:54.340 Like I was saying, all the interviews kind of blend into one at this point, but somebody

00:28:57.900 was talking about, um, as, as you're reacting to a situation, when you talk about getting

00:29:05.300 time, for example, back on your side, you're trying to slow everything down so you can pocket

00:29:09.880 more of that time to respond correctly.

00:29:12.840 But if you take a, uh, uh, a violent encounter, uh, whether that's an active shooter or some

00:29:19.520 other disaster that you're dealing with, that it's going to happen quick and catch you by

00:29:24.480 surprise, you got to try to slow that down a little bit so you can react properly.

00:29:28.140 You might, are you saying that correctly?

00:29:29.240 Yeah.

00:29:29.280 No, you're right on it.

00:29:30.260 There's, there's actually, um, an old air force fighter pilot.

00:29:35.420 But he, uh, he came up with the OODA loop.

00:29:38.520 Sure.

00:29:38.760 Right.

00:29:39.060 What's his name?

00:29:39.760 John, um, Boyd.

00:29:41.060 Boyd.

00:29:41.480 Yeah.

00:29:41.680 Yep.

00:29:41.980 And so Boyd put the OODA together, uh, so that you could get inside your adversary's

00:29:50.360 mind at mock speed.

00:29:52.740 Ooh.

00:29:53.060 I mean, imagine that.

00:29:53.860 Yeah.

00:29:54.160 You're flying towards each other.

00:29:55.380 Yeah.

00:29:55.500 Yeah.

00:29:55.660 It's like, what the fuck?

00:29:56.500 How do you do that?

00:29:57.020 But, uh, so, and I, even to this day, I've talked about the OODA loop so much.

00:30:01.740 And when you talk about awareness situation, you can't do situational awareness for a living

00:30:05.660 and not talk about it, but orientate yourself, you know, obviously first you're observing the

00:30:10.900 environment, then orientating yourself based on what your adversary is doing.

00:30:15.300 Then now you can make a decision and act on it.

00:30:17.900 And that's the OODA loop in, in short, but it is exactly that is trying, how do I, if

00:30:24.080 I can get inside my adversary's head, know what they're probably going to do next, then

00:30:28.140 I've just put time on my side.

00:30:29.600 Right.

00:30:29.920 Yeah.

00:30:30.160 Yeah.

00:30:30.360 It makes sense.

00:30:30.880 I think most people just rush to action.

00:30:32.760 They do.

00:30:33.400 Yeah.

00:30:33.740 And I've been telling people with, especially as you brought up active shooter, um, with

00:30:37.940 these current Buzzfeed videos and wired and the things I've been doing specific to that

00:30:42.300 is, uh, you, you don't want to just leverage the mammalian reflex or that fight or flight

00:30:49.640 thing.

00:30:50.000 You want to take a moment, look, listen, and feel to what's going on.

00:30:54.060 Around you, trust your eyes, question your ears, especially as it relates to gunfire

00:31:00.220 and make sure you're not running the wrong direction.

00:31:03.940 Sure.

00:31:04.120 Make sure you're not hiding in the wrong place.

00:31:06.720 Right.

00:31:07.880 Identifying the dead ends and, uh, all of those bad locations is just, if not more important

00:31:14.140 than knowing your routes out of a building.

00:31:16.300 No doubt.

00:31:16.860 Know where the closets are.

00:31:17.920 Cause you're not going to run to one of those.

00:31:19.800 Know where the bathrooms are.

00:31:20.900 Cause you do not want to run to one of those.

00:31:22.640 So because you're pinning yourself in that hole, you're putting yourself in a dead end.

00:31:25.860 Right.

00:31:26.000 And that's where the term dead end comes from.

00:31:27.720 Yeah.

00:31:28.080 Yeah.

00:31:28.440 Good point.

00:31:29.300 I mean, this even works.

00:31:30.400 Yeah.

00:31:30.500 We're talking about active shooter situation, but this even works at the most basic level.

00:31:34.200 Uh, the other day, my son had fallen off his bike or something and he fell off and he

00:31:38.700 scraped his knee and I could tell he wasn't hurt, you know?

00:31:40.640 Yeah.

00:31:40.840 But he, the way that he responded, you'd think he would have, you know, he like, he would

00:31:44.220 have lost his leg or something and he's screaming and I'm like, stop.

00:31:48.440 Yeah.

00:31:49.040 It's okay.

00:31:49.560 Just stop for a second.

00:31:51.500 Stop crying.

00:31:52.720 Stop screaming.

00:31:54.140 Just stop.

00:31:55.020 So he stops.

00:31:55.760 I'm like, figure out what's going on.

00:31:58.280 He's like, oh, I scraped my knee.

00:31:59.880 I'm like, does it hurt?

00:32:00.640 Yeah.

00:32:01.180 Is it painful?

00:32:02.020 A little.

00:32:02.820 Can you get back on your bike?

00:32:04.700 Yeah.

00:32:05.380 Yeah.

00:32:05.740 Then do that.

00:32:06.840 But like the first reaction doesn't need to be freak out.

00:32:09.800 Right, right.

00:32:10.180 But we need to be conditioned to do that though.

00:32:12.240 Yeah.

00:32:12.380 Because I think the, I think the first response without being conditioned is flip out and

00:32:18.200 potentially put yourself in a, in a bad situation.

00:32:20.320 Correct.

00:32:20.860 You end up in that, in, in, in the, in the active shooter situation, you end up inadvertently

00:32:25.140 running towards gunfire because if everyone who's listening now know, will know that

00:32:30.720 sound, how it propagates inside is much different than how it is outside.

00:32:35.940 Gunshots fired indoors becomes omnidirectional.

00:32:38.780 You can't tell exactly where it's coming from and it's very deceiving.

00:32:42.860 You think it's coming from the right.

00:32:44.400 It's really coming from the left.

00:32:45.800 So what do you do?

00:32:46.800 You run right in towards the bad guy.

00:32:49.240 And it's really important that you take that moment.

00:32:52.220 And if you can get eyes on, you should.

00:32:54.800 Now, you know, in a situation, the environment, in your own personal capability, always dictate

00:33:00.020 what you're going to do.

00:33:01.240 Sure.

00:33:01.740 Because people like to sit there and argue about it.

00:33:03.960 And I don't argue about it.

00:33:05.140 It's just the situation, your capability, and the environment make all those decisions

00:33:10.500 for you, whether you like it or not.

00:33:11.820 Right.

00:33:13.100 But once again, it's, you know, you, you hear a gunshot, just know that sometimes it's

00:33:19.760 not going to be in the direction you think it is.

00:33:21.740 Right.

00:33:21.960 That's the big takeaway there.

00:33:24.440 Man, let me hit the pause button really quickly.

00:33:26.700 You've heard me talking about the legacy experience over the past several months.

00:33:29.380 If you haven't gone and watched the video, at least just do me a favor and go watch the

00:33:33.020 video.

00:33:33.280 Cause you need to see what this thing's about, whether you have kids or not, or whether you're

00:33:36.400 planning on attending or not.

00:33:37.740 I think you're going to believe after watching that video, that what we're doing is good and

00:33:42.520 right and needs to be had in the world.

00:33:45.740 But if you are interested and you're a father or a father figure, and you have a son between

00:33:50.840 the ages of eight to 15, you definitely need to check this out.

00:33:53.720 Um, you know, I've had quite a few people ask me, uh, if I'm scared to raise boys in

00:33:58.940 today's society.

00:33:59.640 And yeah, I typically respond with something like, you know, what the type of boys that

00:34:03.780 this society is raising, my sons are going to be Kings, right?

00:34:06.280 We all say something like that.

00:34:07.660 And I know you feel the same way, although you may not feel if you're like me, that you

00:34:11.720 have everything that you need to ensure that that is actually the case.

00:34:14.400 Uh, but when you join us on June 11th through the 14th, 2020, so coming up very quickly

00:34:19.380 here, uh, we're going to equip you and your son with the tools and the framework and instruction

00:34:25.620 and tests and rite of passage, if you will, to ensure that your son becomes the man that

00:34:31.200 you have a desire for him to become as his father, you're raising a King.

00:34:34.640 We want to help you do that so you can learn more and join us at order of man.com slash

00:34:39.880 legacy.

00:34:40.220 If you are going to join us, you need to make the decision very quickly.

00:34:42.520 Cause I think we have six spots left only six.

00:34:44.980 And once that's done, it's done.

00:34:46.180 You're going to stay with me on my property here in Maine, uh, in the barn.

00:34:49.940 I've got a, I've got a name for it.

00:34:52.060 We're going to christen it while you guys are out here.

00:34:54.140 Uh, but anyways, uh, come, come out, spend some time with us.

00:34:57.440 It's going to be a good time.

00:34:58.460 It's going to be a hard time.

00:34:59.480 We're going to push you and your son physically, mentally, emotionally, and you're going to

00:35:02.720 walk away with a stronger bond and the ability to usher him into manhood.

00:35:06.980 Go check it out.

00:35:07.880 Order of man.com slash legacy.

00:35:09.920 Do that after the show for now, we'll get back to my conversation with

00:35:12.400 Clint.

00:35:14.240 Well, and I imagine too, as many senses as you, as you can involve the better off.

00:35:17.600 Like if you're just auditory, you're just hearing something that, that could, that alone

00:35:22.060 could deceive you.

00:35:23.180 Yeah.

00:35:23.400 But you start getting smell, you start getting sight, you start getting these other senses

00:35:26.760 involved and you, the, the compilation of those senses, what's helps you make the correct

00:35:31.020 decision.

00:35:31.520 Yeah.

00:35:31.860 And that's the goal.

00:35:32.480 You, you, you feel people are like, well, why would you slow down?

00:35:35.100 But it's not, we're not talking minutes.

00:35:37.080 Yeah.

00:35:37.620 Talking seconds.

00:35:38.280 Right.

00:35:38.660 And you're not walking when you should be running, but you're right.

00:35:41.900 Right.

00:35:42.100 Sure.

00:35:42.540 Yeah.

00:35:42.920 And that, that mammalian reflex is powerful.

00:35:45.000 You see a herd of people go running by, it is human nature to want to run with them.

00:35:49.360 Yeah.

00:35:49.600 You'll have a feeling like, should I go with them?

00:35:51.980 Right.

00:35:52.280 But you don't know if they're running in the right direction.

00:35:54.820 And that's, that's the whole point.

00:35:56.060 Because that, you, you want to know how this is so ingrained into us.

00:35:59.260 So go, go to like an airport.

00:36:01.760 All right.

00:36:02.200 And you're, and you're going in the, in the parking structure and you can clearly see that

00:36:06.420 there's two lines to go get your ticket to go into the parking structure.

00:36:09.740 Yeah.

00:36:10.280 And what line do you take?

00:36:11.560 The one that has four cars in it.

00:36:13.300 Oh yeah.

00:36:13.620 Have you noticed that?

00:36:14.240 Oh yeah.

00:36:14.400 Like most people go on the line that already, I'm like, there's no empty line right there.

00:36:17.920 It's because you're, you're, it's, it's hardwired into you to do what other people are doing.

00:36:23.140 I saw it on the way down here.

00:36:24.600 Uh, toll booths are the same way.

00:36:26.440 Three lanes.

00:36:27.520 All the cars are in the one lane.

00:36:29.340 Cause they're like, well, I guess that's the one.

00:36:30.860 Cause that guy is there.

00:36:31.980 And everyone else is there.

00:36:33.620 You know where I noticed it is this airport is unique in the fact that in the terminal I

00:36:38.340 got off in, there are signs that say baggage and everything and ground transportation this

00:36:43.100 way.

00:36:43.380 So you take that arrow and then on the other side of a, of a, of a like shopping area that

00:36:50.640 you have to cut between, there's another sign that says, you know, ground transportation

00:36:56.040 baggage.

00:36:56.520 And it points you back in the same direction.

00:36:59.020 So you have all these people that are following each other, following the herd, going back and

00:37:02.460 forth, back and forth.

00:37:03.100 When right there in the center is the stairs that go down.

00:37:05.120 You just don't notice it because you're just following arrows and you're following people

00:37:08.380 because, well, we all got off the plane together.

00:37:10.940 We're all going to go to the same place together.

00:37:13.380 But it would actually be a funny social experiment if in an airport or, or a mall or even a place

00:37:18.240 like this, you just had arrows that zigzagged you through, but brought you back to the same

00:37:23.220 place to see how many laps people would do before they realized, oh, this isn't right.

00:37:27.840 I just need to pay attention.

00:37:29.000 Right.

00:37:29.320 Yeah.

00:37:30.140 Don't always follow the herd.

00:37:31.260 Yeah.

00:37:31.600 Yeah.

00:37:32.260 Yeah.

00:37:32.440 How do you know when to follow the herd and when not to though?

00:37:36.040 Well, it depends on what that threat is.

00:37:38.280 I mean, obviously fire and the smell of fire and, you know, um, all those, every situation

00:37:44.440 is going to kind of dictate.

00:37:45.560 But when you hear the gunshots, that's where it's specific, right?

00:37:48.280 Yeah.

00:37:48.420 You just don't want to go in the, go the wrong way without knowing what's there.

00:37:53.620 Right.

00:37:53.900 You know, and so, um, and it even applied, you know, in Nice when, you know, they decided

00:38:00.740 to go rent a van and start to run a big, you know, utility truck and start running people

00:38:05.780 over.

00:38:06.160 Just running people.

00:38:06.500 Yep.

00:38:06.960 Um, you know, at first you don't know where it's coming from.

00:38:10.540 You just see people piling out of the way and they don't even see the truck, you know,

00:38:14.900 that tunnel vision and that adrenaline sometimes can blind you.

00:38:18.660 It can deafen you.

00:38:19.540 And that's another reason why you got sometimes just got to take a moment and really force

00:38:24.700 yourself to open up your aperture and pay attention to that environment.

00:38:28.300 And obviously you can't take it all in, you know, when you're just walking down the street

00:38:32.160 and you hear guys talking about situational awareness.

00:38:34.600 And the reality is, is if you try to pay attention to everything, you'll see nothing.

00:38:38.840 Sure.

00:38:39.100 You know, so you've got to narrow it down based on what are the possible threats I could run

00:38:43.400 into while I'm there.

00:38:44.940 And then look for those indicators.

00:38:47.040 It's much easier than just trying to look at everything.

00:38:50.040 Well, and I imagine too, is doing that prior to a situation happening, right?

00:38:54.800 So if you walk into an event center like this, or you walk into a mall or you walk into a

00:38:58.620 restaurant, evaluating those things prior to something going down, it's going to put you

00:39:03.280 in a much better position than if the first time you consider it is when the gun goes off.

00:39:07.220 Right.

00:39:07.480 You're training your brain.

00:39:08.800 So I tell people to calibrate it, sensitize it to what you're going to do, you know, and

00:39:13.560 the environments you're in, the routes you're going to take.

00:39:15.580 I mean, it's really simple stuff you hear all the time, but there is a kind of a more

00:39:18.840 of a, you know, systematic way of doing it so that you're not overwhelmed and that you

00:39:23.720 can remember, you know, half of the stuff.

00:39:25.400 Well, and then you see these guys that are just so paranoid on everything, you know, and

00:39:28.460 it's like they can't even function because they're overly paranoid about the slightest

00:39:31.660 of things that could go wrong.

00:39:32.940 And it's like, okay, well, cool.

00:39:34.100 You're protected to some degree, but are you even living life at this point?

00:39:38.660 Yeah, no.

00:39:39.060 Like I have got, I have friends, in fact, I have a friend who got so heavy into the

00:39:42.680 prepping thing that he lost his family, he lost his job, and he just went nuts.

00:39:47.620 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:47.940 Because he was trying to do a good thing, he just took it too far.

00:39:51.640 Yeah, I tell people, it's not, it's not about being paranoid or being a prepper.

00:39:55.020 It's just simple preparedness.

00:39:57.000 Yeah.

00:39:57.240 You know, and it goes a long ways, you know.

00:39:59.180 Preparedness is a lifestyle.

00:40:01.100 You do have to think about it.

00:40:02.340 You still kind of got to do and carry the right things to be ready for whatever that is.

00:40:07.380 But that's about the, that's about it.

00:40:09.760 Right.

00:40:10.040 Everything else, I tell people, keep it simple because crisis will complicate the rest.

00:40:14.360 You don't need to have these complicated ways of doing things because once adrenaline starts

00:40:19.340 going, stress, you start running out of time, the simple things is what you're going to leverage.

00:40:24.540 Yeah.

00:40:25.160 Gross motor skills versus fine motor skills, you know.

00:40:28.600 If it's a fight, and you don't do it all the time, you're not a person who is, you know,

00:40:34.240 like you've gotten into, you're on the mat all the time or, you know, you're going to

00:40:37.700 be comfortable maybe trying out some things that require fine motor skills, which all

00:40:41.720 goes to grip and, you know, the things that, I always compare, it's not, fine motor skills

00:40:47.500 is the Jason Bourne fight scenes in a bathroom stall with pencils and books and everything

00:40:51.900 else.

00:40:52.360 And it goes on for five minutes straight.

00:40:53.820 Right.

00:40:53.840 Um, what I'm talking about is big macro movements where it's a tackle, it's a grab, it's whatever

00:41:01.020 it takes to, you know, do what needs to be done so that you can then create pain, then

00:41:07.440 create distance and get away from the threat as quickly as possible.

00:41:10.580 Yeah.

00:41:10.720 We're talking 30 seconds or less.

00:41:12.160 Right.

00:41:12.380 You know.

00:41:13.320 Yeah.

00:41:13.500 I imagine with the macro, like you're talking about here is that's the, that's the biggest

00:41:17.120 return for your energy.

00:41:19.060 It is.

00:41:19.660 Yeah.

00:41:19.820 Like I even think about a physical altercation, obviously distance yourself, get away from

00:41:24.460 that environment or situation.

00:41:25.540 But if it ever got down to a fight, like I've thought to myself, I got to bring this to the

00:41:29.620 ground.

00:41:29.880 Like, cause I don't, I'm not a strike.

00:41:31.760 Like I've never done boxing.

00:41:33.260 I'm not a striking guy, but I have a little bit of wrestling and a little bit of jujitsu.

00:41:37.280 I'm like, okay, my best bet is to take it to the ground and do whatever I can on the

00:41:40.680 ground and then get out of that situation.

00:41:42.180 But you're right.

00:41:42.840 It's those macro skills that are going to be advantageous for you.

00:41:45.760 And well, it goes back to that saying too, you know, a hundred.

00:41:49.820 What's the, how's it go again?

00:41:51.440 You never want, you know, a hundred percent of the time you do not want to go to the ground,

00:41:56.740 but 95% of the fights do.

00:41:58.640 Will go to the ground.

00:41:59.200 Right.

00:41:59.480 So you've got to know what to do.

00:42:01.480 And someone for you getting strikes under your belt, always a great idea.

00:42:06.060 No doubt.

00:42:06.460 Mainly because once you go to the ground, you don't know.

00:42:09.700 You're tangled up.

00:42:10.360 Somebody could be behind you.

00:42:11.120 You don't know who this guy's buddies are.

00:42:12.740 Right.

00:42:12.980 And that's the big problem.

00:42:13.880 Or what that individual has on them.

00:42:15.300 Yeah.

00:42:15.880 I think a lot of people overlook that.

00:42:17.200 They think, okay, well, I've got jujitsu under my belt.

00:42:19.160 I can handle myself.

00:42:20.000 It's like, well, you can handle yourself if another guy's grabbing you.

00:42:23.080 But if he's got a knife and you're going to arm bar him, all he has to do is grab his

00:42:27.140 knife and stab you.

00:42:28.880 Put it in your kidneys.

00:42:29.660 Right.

00:42:30.020 So yeah, his arm's going to hurt a little while, but you're going to be dead.

00:42:32.560 Yeah.

00:42:33.100 So you got to be careful on that stuff as well.

00:42:34.680 Yeah.

00:42:34.780 That badass triangle is going away here in a second.

00:42:37.000 Exactly.

00:42:37.440 As soon as I start stabbing you in the flank.

00:42:39.100 Exactly.

00:42:39.800 Yeah.

00:42:39.940 It's a dangerous kind of world, and you take your risk going to the ground, especially

00:42:43.720 these days, whether it's weapons or there's more people in the crowd than you think, which

00:42:47.720 usually was the case when SEALs go to a bar, right?

00:42:51.820 One guy decides to mess with one other guy.

00:42:55.580 He has no idea that there's 15 of his buddies standing there, too.

00:42:59.220 Right.

00:42:59.540 Because we're not hanging around in a herd.

00:43:01.140 Everyone's talking to women.

00:43:02.160 Mingling, doing your thing.

00:43:03.120 Yeah.

00:43:03.320 But, you know, that's actually good, that's self-regulatory as well.

00:43:07.520 Yeah.

00:43:07.820 Because you think to yourself, like, what's the saying is the reason, you know, things

00:43:12.500 are so difficult is because, you know, we can't drink from the skulls of our enemy or

00:43:16.620 whatever anymore, right?

00:43:17.460 Yeah.

00:43:17.520 Something like that.

00:43:18.500 And that's the thing is, like, man, if you're in a room full, like this.

00:43:22.880 Yeah.

00:43:23.080 I don't know how many guns, I mean, obviously there's the displays, but how many people

00:43:26.280 are carrying in here, right?

00:43:27.580 Oh, yeah.

00:43:28.040 Like, a large percentage of them.

00:43:30.040 And that is self-regulatory.

00:43:32.620 It's like, I'm not going to mess with that guy because he can defend.

00:43:36.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:37.220 Well, so me, I'm a concealed carry guy, and I think in terms of what you were just bringing

00:43:41.800 up with grappling, it's like, I go, if I did go to the ground, what if he got a hold

00:43:46.520 of my gun off of me?

00:43:47.380 That's true, too.

00:43:48.020 Because, you know, as you know, there's aspects of being on the ground that you can't always

00:43:52.840 control, and your waistline is vulnerable.

00:43:55.360 Sure.

00:43:56.220 And so I'm always like, I don't want to go to the ground, even though I'm the one with

00:43:59.600 all the superior, like, weapons and this.

00:44:02.480 You got all this stuff, and then it's the ultimate equalizer when you know you've got

00:44:07.580 all this stuff on you, but you also know that someone can take it away from you.

00:44:11.800 That's a good point, yeah.

00:44:12.780 I guess, yeah, you opened my eye to that perspective of, like, well, I mean, obviously the first

00:44:18.320 thing is just disengage altogether.

00:44:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:20.660 Right?

00:44:21.080 De-escalate when you can.

00:44:21.760 There's too much ego in that.

00:44:23.400 It's like, I don't need to fight this guy.

00:44:25.280 I don't need to be in an altercation with this individual.

00:44:27.640 Like, road rage, I see that all the time.

00:44:29.740 It's like, you guys are both driving to work to support your family.

00:44:33.440 Right.

00:44:33.680 And now you're going to get out of the car, and you're going to pull a gun on somebody,

00:44:36.320 or try to run somebody off the road and jeopardize not only your job, but your livelihood

00:44:40.260 and your ability to take care of your family over this guy cut you off.

00:44:44.580 Right.

00:44:45.320 Ridiculous.

00:44:45.800 Now, look, I'm not immune to that.

00:44:48.660 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:49.080 It's a maturity thing, for sure.

00:44:50.700 Well, not only that, but it's a humility thing, too, because you've been humbled and kicked

00:44:54.660 in the balls enough by life that you realize this is not one of the things I'm willing to

00:44:58.060 get kicked in the balls over.

00:44:59.340 Yeah.

00:44:59.920 Well, and for me, it was like you have kids.

00:45:02.020 Yes.

00:45:02.260 Now, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, wait a minute.

00:45:03.700 I need to be a good example.

00:45:04.680 That's number one.

00:45:05.240 Yep, yep.

00:45:06.060 And that's hard enough to do sometimes.

00:45:07.680 Yeah, for sure.

00:45:08.460 No doubt.

00:45:09.020 Number two is, like, you don't want to do anything stupid that can take that gift away

00:45:14.300 from you, like prison, right?

00:45:15.900 Right.

00:45:16.260 These days, it's real easy to get in trouble.

00:45:18.520 You know, everyone wants to call the cops.

00:45:20.120 Everyone wants to get an attorney.

00:45:22.140 Yeah.

00:45:23.560 Yeah, we live in an interesting time.

00:45:26.020 Well, let me go back to the book, because one of the things that we talked about prior

00:45:29.480 to Hit and Record on the podcast is you were talking about the fact that everybody,

00:45:34.300 every SEAL writes a book, it seems like, right?

00:45:36.640 Like, yeah, it's what you do.

00:45:38.120 That's funny.

00:45:38.540 Like, you go through your career, you get some experience under your belt, and then you

00:45:42.860 retire, and then you write a book.

00:45:43.980 That's what you do.

00:45:44.700 Yeah.

00:45:45.420 What's up with that?

00:45:47.460 Well, I...

00:45:47.920 Because usually, I mean, it used to be like, you don't write a book, right?

00:45:50.700 Yeah.

00:45:50.780 You don't share your experience.

00:45:52.280 Well, I think it's still taboo, right?

00:45:55.400 I mean, I was one of those guys who sat in the squadron space, Fox News is playing across

00:46:01.400 the military, and then you've got some SEAL talking head, and that's either pushing a book,

00:46:06.780 pushing his business.

00:46:07.660 He's an expert on some...

00:46:08.940 Whatever it is, right?

00:46:09.760 Sure.

00:46:10.320 We all sat there.

00:46:11.420 We shake our heads like, that motherfucker.

00:46:13.580 Really?

00:46:13.940 Sellout, cocksucker, whatever you can throw at the screen.

00:46:16.560 You're saying it, right?

00:46:18.220 And you think to yourself, I will never be like that.

00:46:20.940 Well, I was that guy, you know?

00:46:22.040 But then as you get closer and closer to retirement, and then as you start to kind of put yourself

00:46:29.700 out there on, hey, what are the next things I'm going to do in life, it's funny how many

00:46:33.820 things present themselves that you would typically say no to, that you end up going, well, all

00:46:39.820 right, why not?

00:46:41.260 So, you know, a lot of guys will never admit it, but the price tag on some of that stuff

00:46:44.840 is alluring.

00:46:45.760 I can imagine.

00:46:46.320 Who's going to say no to like money?

00:46:48.820 Right.

00:46:49.060 And I tried to do it, you know, with 100 daily skills in a very respectful way where, hey,

00:46:55.500 all right, I'll do it.

00:46:56.740 I'm not putting a trident on the front of the book, which none of my books have tridents

00:46:59.820 on it.

00:47:01.300 And then I was like, you know, the inside will contain information that could potentially,

00:47:07.500 you know, help people.

00:47:08.960 And so, but what was that doing?

00:47:11.220 I was just reasoning with myself.

00:47:12.500 I'm still a SEAL writing a book, but, you know.

00:47:15.020 It's going to help people.

00:47:16.120 Well, at least you can be honest about it, right?

00:47:18.080 Like if you can't laugh at yourself and mock yourself a little bit, like, come on, you

00:47:21.940 got to have some fun with it.

00:47:23.620 But here's the reality that a lot of SEALs and other guys don't see until they get out.

00:47:30.160 New York and LA make a metric fuck ton off of us, and none of them are SEALs, right?

00:47:36.920 They make a lot of money off of us.

00:47:38.660 And so, you start to see that.

00:47:41.240 Then you're like, you know what?

00:47:42.660 SEALs should be making money off the brand that the commercial industry has certainly

00:47:48.300 made plenty.

00:47:49.180 Sure.

00:47:49.820 And so, that's number one.

00:47:50.940 SEALs that listen to this, you know, 10 years from now, whatever, you know, it's okay

00:47:54.960 that you make money off of who you are and what you did.

00:48:00.360 And it's not a lot of money, I'll tell you that, but it's something.

00:48:03.720 The second piece to books is that it's the best marketing platform on the planet that

00:48:08.140 you don't have to pay for.

00:48:09.960 I mean, 100 Daily Skills is in a dozen languages.

00:48:12.740 It's all around the globe.

00:48:14.380 And it puts you out there.

00:48:16.520 For me, I'm a subject matter expert in a lot of this crisis management stuff.

00:48:20.500 And so, you get a lot of stuff that benefits from that, you know?

00:48:24.000 Right, sure.

00:48:24.300 It's how do you market yourself effectively when you've got everybody marketing themselves

00:48:30.120 these days?

00:48:30.800 Right.

00:48:31.280 A book is just one piece of the pie.

00:48:33.280 It's almost like if you don't, then you're really not exploiting all of those forms of

00:48:38.740 art.

00:48:39.000 Like, it's like having an IG account, an Instagram account, and nothing else.

00:48:43.900 Right.

00:48:44.360 No, you've got to go have Twitter.

00:48:45.360 You've got to do everything else.

00:48:46.420 Yeah, you have to do everything else.

00:48:47.640 Right.

00:48:48.620 And when you go back in history of business, it used to be just word of mouth and a business

00:48:53.660 card.

00:48:54.120 Mm-hmm.

00:48:54.780 Now, I mean, we hand out business cards, but how often do you really?

00:48:58.960 I mean, you can look each other up in a heartbeat now, you know?

00:49:01.480 Yeah, somebody asked me for a business card today.

00:49:03.240 I'm like, what?

00:49:03.860 Excuse me?

00:49:04.540 Can I have a business card?

00:49:05.380 Yeah.

00:49:05.720 It's come a long ways.

00:49:06.900 But now, books are a business card.

00:49:10.240 Yeah.

00:49:10.440 You know, it's kind of strange.

00:49:12.120 You know, you put a lot of work into these things.

00:49:14.740 It doesn't equate to a ton of money, but it's not a bad...

00:49:18.800 If you're going to go pay $7,000 a month for a billboard or you're going to get paid to

00:49:23.440 write a book, which one are you going to pick?

00:49:24.780 Sure.

00:49:25.220 Of course.

00:49:25.680 Well, and how effective is a billboard anyways?

00:49:28.140 I mean, you might get some eyes on, but you're not going to get the engagement that you would

00:49:31.520 if somebody reads or listens to your book and gets inside of your mind through those

00:49:35.580 pages of the book.

00:49:37.040 Right.

00:49:37.340 A book is global.

00:49:38.380 Yeah.

00:49:38.760 Without a doubt.

00:49:39.140 And especially with Amazon, now anybody in any country can buy your book.

00:49:43.520 And it's pretty amazing.

00:49:45.400 So it's better than a business card.

00:49:47.240 It's better than a billboard.

00:49:48.260 Of course.

00:49:48.760 It's just the best way to go for people that are first, you know, if you're just trying

00:49:52.420 to get your name out there.

00:49:53.320 Right.

00:49:54.400 Well, you know, the other thing, too, is, you know, you say, for example, like, I'm

00:49:59.080 trying to justify it by saying that I help people.

00:50:01.380 But truly, like, that is what you're doing.

00:50:04.420 Yeah, it ends up.

00:50:05.160 You have this experience.

00:50:06.680 And if people gain something from the experience and they learn something new and it serves them

00:50:12.600 in their life, then I think not only should you, I think you almost have an obligation

00:50:18.300 to share your experience, whether it's in the SEALs or experience with whatever facet

00:50:23.480 of life.

00:50:24.500 Like, that's the point.

00:50:25.480 You can help other people.

00:50:26.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:26.840 Yeah.

00:50:27.060 No, when you put an idea together, you know, and what we're talking about is a book, and

00:50:31.960 then you put it out to the world, it's, you're really doing that because, well, I got paid.

00:50:36.000 But it's not until the testimonials come in where I had a freelance journalist in Columbia

00:50:41.940 who used some of the skills out of 100 deadly skills, and it saved her life.

00:50:46.640 And then you get a couple of business guys that travel abroad, go to a meeting, and, you

00:50:52.320 know, that meeting was, had, you know, some suspect eavesdropping capabilities built into

00:50:57.960 it.

00:50:58.260 And they're like, yeah, if it wasn't for your book, the awareness that it gave me to that

00:51:02.440 kind of stuff, I would have never known to actually kind of look for it.

00:51:05.720 Right.

00:51:06.260 So the testimonials is what transitions, you know, an idea that was for money into, oh,

00:51:13.180 now it's like, now I'm back to doing things for the greater good again.

00:51:16.640 Sure.

00:51:16.900 You know, those testimonials are everything.

00:51:18.540 Well, the other thing too, though, is they're not mutually exclusive.

00:51:21.780 Right.

00:51:22.440 And there's a lot of people who can't wrap their heads around that.

00:51:24.900 They think if they're making good money, then they're not being a helpful human being.

00:51:28.480 Right, right.

00:51:28.560 Or that if they want to be helpful, then they can't make any money.

00:51:31.340 Yeah.

00:51:31.480 It's like, no, we live in a very cool society, capitalistic society that says you can help

00:51:37.220 a ton of people and make really good money doing it.

00:51:40.440 Yeah.

00:51:40.700 And they're not at odds with each other.

00:51:42.660 Right.

00:51:43.060 And it's okay.

00:51:43.840 It's okay.

00:51:44.480 It's good.

00:51:45.220 Because then you can buy things and have experiences and put your kids through college and pay off

00:51:51.240 your debt and all these other things that, you know, we do with money.

00:51:54.500 Yeah.

00:51:54.720 I think you're right.

00:51:55.600 I think people are kind of scared to admit to the money piece of all of it.

00:52:00.160 I'm not.

00:52:00.520 I mean, you get paid for your time and your skills and what you bring to the table.

00:52:05.480 And for me, the books are all about just a creative outlet.

00:52:10.040 Sometimes it's therapy.

00:52:11.360 Right.

00:52:11.740 I mean, to put the skills out there or to do a memoir, each one of them, I've learned so

00:52:16.620 much about myself.

00:52:17.760 And I love to be creative.

00:52:19.140 I'm not the greatest storyteller in the world, but I kind of enjoy that piece of it, the

00:52:23.880 illustrations.

00:52:24.660 I'm obviously not an illustrator, but going through the process with some of the best

00:52:28.440 illustrators is cool.

00:52:29.660 Yeah.

00:52:29.860 That creative process is fun.

00:52:32.620 But yeah, it's not until later, like I said, when people tell you how much they like the

00:52:36.860 books, how much it's helped them, that you start to get that greater feeling of like,

00:52:42.480 oh, okay, thank God this is actually working.

00:52:45.620 Right.

00:52:45.840 Because you don't know if it's going to work or not from the get-go.

00:52:47.140 You don't know if it's going to help or if anybody's going to listen other than your

00:52:49.520 mom or whatever else.

00:52:50.760 I tell people all the time, when you join the military, most of the time, they'll never

00:52:54.320 admit to it for economic reasons.

00:52:56.520 They don't have anything else better going on in their life.

00:52:58.680 Yeah, they're patriotic.

00:52:59.720 They are.

00:53:00.340 I'm not going to take it away from them.

00:53:01.860 But the true sense of patriotism doesn't kick in until you're really in it.

00:53:05.700 Right.

00:53:05.900 Until you go out, you go on a deployment, and you're like, holy shit, the USS Cole has

00:53:10.920 a big fucking hole in it right now.

00:53:12.840 And it's something that comes over you like, I am part of something bigger.

00:53:16.340 I am going to help with whatever this is that we face, and all of a sudden, the fact

00:53:22.800 that you went in for a job or paycheck, the health insurance, whatever it is that you went

00:53:27.160 in for suddenly goes away.

00:53:28.880 Now you have that greater sense of patriotism.

00:53:32.800 You had it.

00:53:33.600 Right.

00:53:33.680 I would never take that away from anybody that serves, but you really didn't have it.

00:53:37.140 It's realized at that point.

00:53:38.420 Until you face it.

00:53:39.520 Yeah.

00:53:39.620 And it's kind of the same with business or any of these projects.

00:53:42.120 You kind of build it.

00:53:42.980 You're building it for yourself.

00:53:43.920 You're building it because I like doing this.

00:53:46.340 And then once you get it out there, then all of a sudden, that feeling comes back like,

00:53:50.500 oh, cool.

00:53:51.420 Right.

00:53:51.640 It is something that is bigger than just a paycheck.

00:53:55.540 Right.

00:53:55.900 Yeah.

00:53:56.600 It's a more like advanced motive.

00:54:01.800 Right?

00:54:02.460 Yeah.

00:54:02.600 But the other motive isn't bad.

00:54:04.720 No, no.

00:54:05.340 And so I think that's where people get hung up is they think, oh, well, for example, I

00:54:09.120 have guys who every once in a while, they'll reach out and say, they'll calculate, this

00:54:13.680 is what they'll do.

00:54:14.640 They'll calculate how much money I make on a monthly basis based on how much they know

00:54:19.120 it costs to join the Iron Council or some other program that I have available.

00:54:22.640 Oh, boy.

00:54:22.760 And then they'll multiply it by the number of members I have.

00:54:25.100 And they're like, well, you make this much money a month and you say you're just trying

00:54:28.200 to help people.

00:54:29.040 I'm like, dude, I'm trying to help people and make a living.

00:54:32.900 Yeah.

00:54:33.160 I'm trying to do both.

00:54:34.180 You're building a future.

00:54:35.080 And they get upset about that.

00:54:36.120 I'm like, let me ask you, where do you go to work?

00:54:38.620 Oh, I go to work at X, Y, and Z.

00:54:40.180 Oh, just out of the goodness of your heart?

00:54:42.100 Oh, no, I get paid for it.

00:54:43.320 Exactly.

00:54:43.920 Right.

00:54:44.400 Yeah.

00:54:44.600 You've got to get paid.

00:54:45.500 It's just an exchange of value is all it is.

00:54:48.720 Yeah.

00:54:49.120 And I think people, it's real easy to do math like what you're talking about, but they really

00:54:54.460 don't understand how that math equates at the end of the year.

00:54:58.340 Right.

00:54:58.840 And what expenses you have and how long you worked without getting paid or losing money.

00:55:05.520 Yeah.

00:55:05.720 I lost money for a couple of years doing this thing.

00:55:08.460 I bet.

00:55:09.000 Right?

00:55:09.360 And then you're putting money in and maybe you accumulate debt.

00:55:13.140 Who knows?

00:55:13.580 But yeah, I think it's, for me, it's the IRS, right?

00:55:16.920 You end up giving a third of your money away every year anyway.

00:55:19.160 That's true.

00:55:19.180 Or more.

00:55:19.700 Yeah.

00:55:20.260 Yeah.

00:55:21.560 So we're at an interesting time, and I wanted to talk about this because I think I saw it

00:55:26.180 on Instagram that you had made a post that it was roughly three years ago that you were

00:55:30.480 at Trump's inauguration.

00:55:32.320 Yeah.

00:55:32.660 Were you doing security detail there?

00:55:34.220 It was, yeah.

00:55:34.280 Was your firm doing security detail?

00:55:35.800 Yeah.

00:55:36.060 Okay.

00:55:36.540 Yeah.

00:55:37.320 My company, Escape the Wolf, his primary job is crisis management for Fortune 500s and stuff.

00:55:42.480 But every now and then we get hit up for very unique stuff that I always go, yeah, especially

00:55:49.920 for an inauguration.

00:55:51.400 You know, it's a really cool event to go to if you've never been.

00:55:55.400 It should be a bucket list item for every American.

00:55:58.760 I don't care if it's, you know, I don't care what party you should go to one.

00:56:03.320 Yeah.

00:56:04.680 Because it's really an interesting ceremony that, you know, that's been going on for quite

00:56:11.180 some time now.

00:56:12.080 Right.

00:56:12.440 And there's only so many presidents, and there's only been so many.

00:56:16.480 So, yeah, I highly recommend it to everyone.

00:56:18.840 For us, it was really cool.

00:56:21.340 It was actually, I was here three years ago, shot show, got a call from the Secret Service.

00:56:25.320 Because, I'm paraphrasing, but basically they said, yeah, the incoming president thinks

00:56:30.440 that Secret Service, you know, is supposed to be used for all of his friends.

00:56:35.680 Oh, really?

00:56:36.100 Yeah.

00:56:36.400 And so, there's some extra stuff.

00:56:38.560 So, it was like this kind of unofficial tasking of like, let's just find some other folks that

00:56:43.980 can do it, you know, and we'll get him read into how all this works once he's the president.

00:56:48.940 Right.

00:56:49.140 You know what I mean?

00:56:49.660 We just got to get, we got to put a bandaid on this right now.

00:56:51.560 Yeah, and so, yeah, it was pretty cool.

00:56:54.360 I mean, we threw together a PSD team.

00:56:59.100 What's that?

00:57:00.160 That's your personal security detail.

00:57:01.620 Okay, all right.

00:57:02.960 Or protection security detail.

00:57:04.720 I've heard that acronym, or those initials being defined in several different ways.

00:57:10.940 But basically, it's bodyguards for an event.

00:57:13.140 And then when I asked, hey, what's the threat?

00:57:15.140 And they were like, protesters.

00:57:16.400 Sure.

00:57:17.120 Yeah.

00:57:17.400 So, that was the big piece.

00:57:19.420 Was there a lot of that?

00:57:20.400 Oh, yeah.

00:57:20.820 I bet.

00:57:21.560 One of the videos, it says it.

00:57:23.860 You can hear it.

00:57:24.500 Like, as soon as, if you listen to that video, turn the audio up, and they're reading, you'll

00:57:30.500 hear all the chanting.

00:57:32.560 Yeah.

00:57:33.340 Then, when he's, you know, right hand's ready, done with the Bible and all that part, then

00:57:39.580 you hear all the booing.

00:57:40.780 Right?

00:57:41.240 It's half the crowd's cheering, half the crowd's booing.

00:57:43.200 That's insane to me.

00:57:44.340 And then I filmed a woman.

00:57:45.340 I was in it.

00:57:46.460 I got really lucky.

00:57:47.180 Like, I mean, they put us, like, I mean, just behind the Marie Corps band, but in front

00:57:52.220 of the press corps.

00:57:52.620 I saw the video that you had posted.

00:57:54.240 I'm like, he's close to the podium or stage or whatever it is right there.

00:57:58.380 You know, Trump's buddies were right there.

00:58:00.080 Yeah.

00:58:00.220 So, that's who we were covering down on.

00:58:02.700 And so, you were just scanning for threats, just kind of checking it out.

00:58:06.240 Like, what is it that you were doing?

00:58:07.220 Is that primarily it?

00:58:08.840 Yeah.

00:58:09.280 We kind of put in a more of a low-vis front where there were seats and stuff that were

00:58:15.900 kind of designated for security, but you look like you were just a guest kind of thing.

00:58:20.860 Sure.

00:58:21.200 Yeah.

00:58:22.220 It was, we worked it hand-in-hand with the Secret Service, and it was very impromptu, fast.

00:58:26.700 Like I said, I was here, and then before you know it, I'm on a plane, head to D.C.

00:58:29.740 Yeah.

00:58:29.920 So, it was pretty cool.

00:58:31.260 And word is, we'll be helping out with the next one.

00:58:35.040 So, it'll be good.

00:58:36.580 And so, is that because you developed a relationship with Secret Service?

00:58:39.640 Yeah.

00:58:39.760 And you have the security clearances at this point, that it makes it easier, or?

00:58:43.420 The security clearances really don't play a role.

00:58:45.460 It's more about relationships.

00:58:46.840 Yeah.

00:58:46.940 And so, I had a lot of friends that have now moved into senior levels within the Secret

00:58:52.600 Service and over at the agencies.

00:58:56.020 Just relationships you develop in the military, they've, you know, definitely, I've carried

00:59:00.840 them on into the civilian life.

00:59:02.660 And in that case, it really, it was a pretty cool deal, you know?

00:59:06.240 Yeah.

00:59:06.400 What a cool opportunity.

00:59:07.560 Yeah.

00:59:07.780 I mean, again, regardless of political party, just an opportunity to be part of that.

00:59:12.200 I remember several years ago, my wife and I went to New York, and we were at our hotel,

00:59:17.020 and we came down, we were walking around, we walk around the corner, and we see where

00:59:19.860 George Washington was inaugurated.

00:59:21.620 You know, just right there.

00:59:22.640 Yeah.

00:59:23.120 And that's it.

00:59:24.060 Just right on those steps, you know, to have that cool part of history and to actually

00:59:27.660 see the process.

00:59:29.040 I've never been to an inauguration, but I think that would be really cool.

00:59:32.160 Yeah.

00:59:32.480 Like I said, I highly recommend it.

00:59:34.040 And for me, Escape the Wolf does policy and workforce training and all this stuff that's,

00:59:39.060 you know, not as sexy.

00:59:40.540 The boring stuff.

00:59:41.180 Yeah, I was like, okay, this is time to kind of get something sexy under our belt that

00:59:45.080 we hadn't done in a while.

00:59:46.140 Yeah.

00:59:46.600 I've had opportunities to do some other cool stuff, all the red teaming, which is us playing

00:59:50.360 adversary and breaking into Fortune 500 and defense contracting companies.

00:59:54.920 When you do that, are you, as the red team, are you just, well, let me stop right there.

01:00:01.240 Let me back up.

01:00:01.840 For those who don't know what red teaming is, explain that, and then I'll work into some

01:00:05.220 of my questions about that.

01:00:05.760 The simple definition is you are playing, you're role playing an adversarial group or

01:00:12.300 person against a organization based on what they perceive as their most likely threat,

01:00:20.320 right?

01:00:20.480 So companies that deal in a lot of intellectual property, then the IT side of the house is

01:00:28.360 the vulnerability because nobody, you know, trade secrets.

01:00:31.320 Right.

01:00:31.420 So we will-

01:00:32.260 Trying to steal that information.

01:00:33.260 Sure.

01:00:33.380 Right.

01:00:33.780 And that's when we'll pretend to be a foreign intel threat.

01:00:36.740 So we're bringing to bear technology against them physically, but we're also attacking

01:00:42.380 them on the red hat side of things where we're running algorithms through black boxes that look

01:00:48.520 like China, look like Russia, using the same bots against their systems and truly testing

01:00:55.320 them holistically, both the physical infrastructure and their network.

01:01:01.140 But some companies will be like, hey, you know, we just want to see if anybody can actually

01:01:04.560 break in.

01:01:05.420 Right.

01:01:05.600 And so that's more of just red hat, that's just being an adversarial criminal force, you

01:01:12.780 know, and trying to get in any means necessary.

01:01:15.500 Our primary one is social engineering.

01:01:21.560 You are basically letting the workforce open the door for you in a myriad of ways.

01:01:27.860 And it can be something as simple as dressing up like your favorite Subway kind of, or your

01:01:33.560 favorite sandwich shop that's going to deliver a dozen sandwiches.

01:01:37.000 Right.

01:01:37.700 And you just go, hey, I'm heading easy, I'm taking, you know, you basically bum rush the

01:01:42.000 lobby.

01:01:43.360 You mumble.

01:01:43.700 You mumbling like you own the place.

01:01:44.560 You mumble.

01:01:45.200 Yep.

01:01:45.640 You mumble something and then you just head on upstairs to the CEO's office.

01:01:48.880 Right.

01:01:49.600 I actually did that.

01:01:50.580 I did that twice in the last two days.

01:01:53.660 Yeah.

01:01:53.960 To get in here.

01:01:54.500 I didn't have my tag initially and the guy that was getting me my tag, he wasn't here.

01:01:59.360 He's like, yeah, I'll be there in an hour.

01:02:00.360 I'm like, well, I'm here now.

01:02:01.700 I mean, I just, I waited by the exit doors and when somebody opened the exit doors, I

01:02:05.640 walked in there because there's no guards there.

01:02:06.960 Right.

01:02:07.280 There you go.

01:02:07.620 And then there's a booth here that I set my bag down and I said, hey, I'm going to

01:02:12.900 set my bag in here.

01:02:13.520 They're like, yeah, that's good.

01:02:14.240 If you need it, just let us know.

01:02:15.460 And a couple hours later, I came in, I walked in, I walked past seven different people and

01:02:20.920 nobody, and it wasn't the people I knew.

01:02:23.640 I walked into the thing, I grabbed the bag, I walked straight out and nobody said a thing.

01:02:28.460 And that's the human factor.

01:02:30.320 So I always say it, you know, you can have the best fence lines and firewalls in the world,

01:02:34.740 but the humans that work for you will fuck you every time.

01:02:38.020 Yes.

01:02:38.140 And that is ultimately what happens to these big corporations.

01:02:41.080 It's not, they spend a lot of money on infrastructure, whether it's on the cyber side or the physical.

01:02:45.620 Right.

01:02:46.240 And they're good to go there.

01:02:47.700 It's always the people within that's your biggest threat.

01:02:50.420 When you're doing this stuff, do the people that you're trying to infiltrate, whatever,

01:02:56.100 do they know that you're doing that or is it?

01:02:59.080 No, because you'll get false positives on security that way.

01:03:01.740 Right.

01:03:01.880 That makes sense.

01:03:02.460 Because then they'll start setting things up.

01:03:04.160 Oh, yeah.

01:03:04.880 Right.

01:03:05.160 They'll all of a sudden be the best security force ever.

01:03:08.780 Yeah.

01:03:09.240 And so what we do is the only thing we give them is the 30 days.

01:03:13.320 So you give them a window on what you can operate.

01:03:15.440 And then we're usually working only with one or two people in the corporation.

01:03:19.060 They're not allowed to tell anybody.

01:03:20.900 And then we get to pick our 96-hour window in that 30 days.

01:03:25.620 So even if they know, the whole company can know, okay, within the next 30 days,

01:03:30.020 something, we're going to be tested two weeks into it.

01:03:34.380 They're on to their thing.

01:03:35.840 They're still doing, they've still got bad habits, yeah.

01:03:37.880 Right.

01:03:38.040 And we take advantage of the bad habits.

01:03:39.300 Is it pretty easy then to infiltrate a lot of this stuff?

01:03:41.800 It can be.

01:03:42.640 Yeah.

01:03:42.760 We had, you know, I tell a story in the book you read where it was an incredible amount

01:03:50.060 of discipline on both the guard force, the workforce, the physical infrastructure of what's

01:03:57.140 basically a national asset.

01:03:59.160 And we had to get really creative to get in that one.

01:04:03.140 And sometimes it's, you know, it's the cleaning crew that comes at 9 o'clock at night and they're

01:04:08.560 there until 2 o'clock in the morning.

01:04:10.000 You know all the systems will be disarmed.

01:04:11.900 And we know that, all right, we pull surveillance.

01:04:14.180 We figure out the cleaning crew's time.

01:04:15.760 Then we're going to follow one of the cleaning crew's home.

01:04:18.540 They're going to inevitably leave their badge in the cup holder.

01:04:22.480 We break into the car.

01:04:23.760 We take the badge.

01:04:24.560 Now we have access to the whole building anytime we want.

01:04:27.000 Interesting.

01:04:27.720 So we get really creative on the tactics side just so that, you know, it basically wakes

01:04:33.920 the company up that, hey, even though you've got, you know, you've got a cleaning crew coming

01:04:37.940 in every night, they may be your vulnerability.

01:04:40.460 Sure.

01:04:41.240 That's a cool job.

01:04:42.540 It's not bad.

01:04:43.460 Yeah, they're fun.

01:04:44.320 Cool gig.

01:04:45.100 Yeah.

01:04:45.900 It definitely kind of balances out sometimes the boring OSHA-compliant stuff.

01:04:53.440 How did you determine, because you were talking about that story, how did you determine what

01:04:56.960 you put into the book?

01:04:59.120 Because, I mean, I know how many experiences you have and how much information you could

01:05:02.920 put in there.

01:05:03.600 Like, how did you distill the lessons that you were actually going to apply in the stories

01:05:06.600 you were going to tell?

01:05:07.580 Yeah, that's a tough one.

01:05:10.460 When I got done writing everything down and taking all the notes that I knew I wanted to,

01:05:14.340 you know, just a data dump, it was 800 pages, right?

01:05:17.820 Obviously, you can't publish that.

01:05:19.180 So then you go through and you start going, all right, it's not necessarily the best stories.

01:05:24.040 It's the stories that weave together the best.

01:05:26.440 Sure.

01:05:26.800 Right?

01:05:27.160 And that's the goal.

01:05:28.300 And that takes...

01:05:28.760 That tell the most compelling story or book as opposed to individual stories.

01:05:31.780 Right.

01:05:32.200 Sure.

01:05:32.640 And what gives an overall theme?

01:05:35.480 You know, I knew my goal was, hey, you know, I'm not perfect, neither are you, but it doesn't

01:05:40.780 mean that you still can't do great things.

01:05:43.100 Right.

01:05:43.300 Right?

01:05:44.000 Or, hey, you might be the skinny guy.

01:05:46.540 So was I.

01:05:47.360 I was still able to get through butts.

01:05:48.740 Or, hey, you know, yeah, maybe you cheated on your wife.

01:05:51.860 Maybe you didn't.

01:05:52.540 Maybe you're a great guy.

01:05:53.840 But just because someone does that doesn't necessarily mean they're just bad.

01:05:57.480 Right.

01:05:57.760 Right?

01:05:58.120 Sure.

01:05:58.260 I mean, so I kind of just knew that I wanted to hit certain pieces that I hope would relate

01:06:04.480 to the person who reads it.

01:06:07.160 And frankly, I also thought in my mind I wanted more women to read this book than men.

01:06:10.920 And that's hence the reason why I had a female ghostwriter.

01:06:15.180 And I really leveraged her a lot to make sure that, hey, you know, how can we make this book

01:06:21.440 really hit that demographic of non-military?

01:06:25.980 Your typical military reader is a dude.

01:06:29.280 Right.

01:06:29.540 Of course.

01:06:29.960 Yeah.

01:06:30.300 So this book, when you read it, you'll see it's like, or you already read it, but women

01:06:34.100 can relate to this.

01:06:35.220 Women can get inside the, you know, I consider myself the average guy.

01:06:39.120 If you want to get inside the average guy's head, read the book.

01:06:42.040 Yeah.

01:06:42.200 You know?

01:06:42.620 Yeah.

01:06:44.300 So that's kind of what dictated your theming and the message you want people to walk away

01:06:51.380 with decides how you weave those stories together and the stories you tell.

01:06:56.160 Right.

01:06:56.520 You kind of, you got to work from the end state backwards.

01:06:59.440 Yep.

01:06:59.860 Makes sense.

01:07:00.520 Yeah.

01:07:01.380 Well, good, man.

01:07:02.340 Yeah.

01:07:02.600 We talked about a lot.

01:07:03.640 Yeah.

01:07:04.040 We could keep talking.

01:07:05.020 I'm probably going to miss my plane.

01:07:06.000 I don't know.

01:07:06.480 Oh, are you leaving this afternoon?

01:07:07.680 Yeah, I'm out of here.

01:07:08.260 Okay.

01:07:08.820 Yeah.

01:07:09.280 Now I'm doing two days.

01:07:11.040 I figure I can get as much as, I mean, you can't get it all, but I can get as much as

01:07:15.240 I want to handle in a two day period.

01:07:17.080 I think we've got six or seven podcasts lined out.

01:07:19.340 Wow.

01:07:20.500 Well, this is the place to do it.

01:07:21.740 This is the place, man.

01:07:22.620 It makes it easy on everybody.

01:07:23.520 It makes it easy.

01:07:24.160 It's convenient.

01:07:24.920 Everybody's here.

01:07:25.660 We've got the audio equipment and the video stuff and it's just, it makes so much sense.

01:07:28.920 It's easy to do.

01:07:29.880 Yeah.

01:07:30.260 Well, cool.

01:07:30.560 Let me ask you a couple of questions and I'll let you get to your flight.

01:07:32.760 The first one, you've answered this twice now.

01:07:36.500 What does it mean to be a man?

01:07:37.840 You know what it means to be a man?

01:07:42.020 I can tell you from military life to the civilian world, having the ability to evolve is what

01:07:49.840 it means to be a man.

01:07:51.520 Don't be so stuck in your ways.

01:07:53.120 Don't be hardheaded.

01:07:54.020 Be flexible, not just with, you know, how you think about things.

01:07:58.240 Be flexible with even, you know, the tactics you use with people each day.

01:08:02.820 Just, you know, just open up a little bit.

01:08:05.940 Open that mind.

01:08:08.000 Have the ability to evolve.

01:08:10.660 Powerful.

01:08:11.220 Yeah.

01:08:11.640 Right on.

01:08:12.060 Is it new?

01:08:14.740 How do, who knows?

01:08:16.480 You're like, ah, fuck.

01:08:17.100 Who knows?

01:08:17.740 I got a catalog on this shit someday.

01:08:19.100 It was good.

01:08:19.820 Actually, I've had a lot of people ask that.

01:08:21.160 They said, would you put together a book that has the answer to, I think it's 280 or so times

01:08:28.820 that I've asked that question now.

01:08:30.480 Yeah.

01:08:30.720 And that's actually a pretty good idea.

01:08:32.680 I think statistics with that question would be kind of cool.

01:08:35.680 Like what category they fall into?

01:08:37.240 Like put all the answers down and then how many of those, which answer is given the most?

01:08:43.680 You know?

01:08:44.040 That is, that is a good idea.

01:08:45.140 Or like keywords that are used the most often.

01:08:47.620 Yeah.

01:08:48.080 That's interesting.

01:08:48.980 Evolve.

01:08:49.640 Courage.

01:08:50.200 Yeah.

01:08:50.680 Protect is on there quite a bit.

01:08:52.380 Yeah.

01:08:52.620 Provide is on there quite a bit.

01:08:54.160 Yeah.

01:08:54.700 Yeah.

01:08:55.360 Well, how do we connect with you, man?

01:08:57.140 Yeah.

01:08:57.380 So you can go to clintemerson.com.

01:09:00.060 It's got the whole ecosystem of stuff I got going on.

01:09:02.300 Most of it falls in the lane of crisis management.

01:09:04.300 If you don't like that kind of thing, then, you know, you don't have to go.

01:09:06.640 Then do something else.

01:09:07.860 Yeah.

01:09:08.180 All books are on Amazon at your local Barnes & Noble or where you buy books.

01:09:12.840 And then, of course, Violent Nomad gear and apparel and all that good EDC type stuff is at violentnomad.com.

01:09:18.580 That's it.

01:09:19.160 Excellent.

01:09:19.660 We'll sync it all up.

01:09:20.420 Go get a copy of the book.

01:09:21.280 I've read it.

01:09:21.700 It's in my bag.

01:09:22.280 I actually meant to have it out and I got distracted.

01:09:24.400 But it's in the bag.

01:09:25.500 It's in there.

01:09:26.040 Yeah.

01:09:26.820 Great book.

01:09:27.680 New perspective.

01:09:28.720 Different than the other books, which is cool.

01:09:30.300 Oh, yeah.

01:09:30.620 I like that.

01:09:31.680 And I think you guys will enjoy it.

01:09:33.040 Clint, I appreciate you, man.

01:09:33.900 It's been good to get to know you over the past several years.

01:09:35.720 I've enjoyed our friendship and, of course, the lessons that you've taught.

01:09:38.360 Hey, and likewise, I mean, like I said, man, I'm proud of you.

01:09:41.140 You've come a long ways.

01:09:42.060 I think we started in this world, you know, roughly the same year.

01:09:46.360 When I was getting out, you were starting this and it's cool to see people grow.

01:09:50.520 And I always support success.

01:09:52.760 Thank you, brother.

01:09:53.540 Appreciate it.

01:09:54.100 Appreciate it.

01:09:54.740 Yeah.

01:09:55.000 Thanks for having me.

01:09:55.860 You're there.

01:09:56.100 Gents, there you go.

01:09:58.460 My conversation with the one and only, as it said in the subtitle, Navy SEAL, covert operative

01:10:04.060 and Boy Scout from hell, Mr. Clint Emerson.

01:10:06.120 I hope you enjoyed that one.

01:10:07.200 Him and I always have a great time when we get together, very down to earth, very real human

01:10:11.060 being and we have some good conversations and he always opens my eyes to some perspectives

01:10:16.360 and insights I hadn't considered before.

01:10:18.280 And isn't that the power of finding people who are good at what they do is they can teach

01:10:22.200 you and educate you on things that you didn't know so that you can make yourself more capable

01:10:26.520 as a man.

01:10:27.080 And Clint is certainly one of those guys for me.

01:10:29.260 So connect with him.

01:10:30.360 He gave you all the social media hashtags and handles and all that stuff.

01:10:34.000 So connect with him on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, go buy a copy of the right kind of

01:10:39.820 crazy, go buy a hundred deadly skills.

01:10:42.180 I actually, my sons and I look at 100 deadly skills cause he's got some good graphics in

01:10:46.900 there.

01:10:47.520 We talked about that in the podcast and I think you'll have a lot of fun sitting down with

01:10:51.200 your, with your little ones and going through some of that stuff as well.

01:10:55.440 Anyways, guys, I hope you enjoyed the conversation.

01:10:57.180 Let Clint know what you thought.

01:10:58.140 Connect with me.

01:10:59.240 And of course, thank you for being tuned in.

01:11:01.760 I would ask as we part, stick with me on this guys, leave us a rating and review.

01:11:06.100 All right.

01:11:06.380 We've put out, I think like 580 episodes now and not once have you had to pay for any of

01:11:11.820 those 580 episodes.

01:11:13.000 That's probably close to a thousand hours of information from me and, and other guests that

01:11:18.680 we've had on like, like Clint.

01:11:20.140 So all I ask in exchange and in return is you go leave a rating and review.

01:11:24.160 It'll literally take you like three minutes, go leave your rating review, let people know

01:11:27.820 what you thought, click five stars, let them know why this show is the best show for men.

01:11:32.300 And that goes a long way in promoting the visibility of what we're doing here in order, man.

01:11:36.000 All right, guys, we'll let you get to it.

01:11:37.280 We'll be back tomorrow.

01:11:38.060 Kip and I will anyways for our ask me anything.

01:11:40.520 But until then go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:11:44.520 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:11:47.680 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:11:51.700 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 04, 2020

The Right Kind of Crazy ｜ CLINT EMERSON

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