The 'Yes' Mentality, Becoming a Man of Honor, and When to Start a Business ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
On this episode of the podcast, we discuss the importance of taking a break from the hustle and busting it all in order to get some rest and recharge. We talk about how important it is to take a break and recharge, and how we can find the time and space to do so.
Transcript
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You get to be a man that honors his word and his commitment to yourself.
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How about we don't do things or we don't say we're going to do things unless we're going
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to do them and we become a man of integrity and we honor our commitments.
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There's more value in what we're saying, simplifying it and you being a man of integrity
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than you shooting for the sky and just dropping the ball.
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Not only is it not efficient, but what are you doing with your internal psyche and internal
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dialogue when we're out of integrity that I constantly see I'm going to do something
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You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is who you will become at the end of the day.
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And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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You and I are doing this a little off schedule today because we're going to be hunting in Hawaii
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And I'll tell you what, man, I don't know how you feel, but I'm taking my oldest son,
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So I'm ready to get out of town for a week, out of state, fly across the Pacific and spend
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some time on a remote island with some good friends, hunting animals.
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I'm reaching a limit where I know it's good for my health, right, for us to do this and
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for me to get disconnected and just, you know, be present in the mountains, you know?
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Not just the mountains, a volcano, an ancient volcano in the middle of the Pacific.
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Hey, let me ask you a question about that because I know there's a lot of men who probably
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And not all of us are in the position that we are where we have the opportunity and we
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What would you say to a man who is feeling very much the same way you and I have talked,
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but maybe doesn't have the time, capacity, space, financial resources, opportunities, et cetera,
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I mean, for me, there's always something we can do.
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Now, where I personally, I get sideways on this all the time, right?
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We talked about this earlier this week is I'm in that mode right now.
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It's almost in this space of I'm neglecting my responsibilities if I go.
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And I had this conversation with someone earlier today about this.
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And me personally, my default is I operate in this space that like, I think today's like
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And once I get past this stuff this week, then I'll have time, right?
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Then someday, the eighth day of the week, someday.
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Well, the reality of it is you have no someday.
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It's a word that represents something that doesn't exist.
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You know, and there's enough evidence, we know this, that if you don't, guess what?
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Your quality of work is going to go down if you don't make the margins.
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You know, and so specifically to your question, could I grab a backpack, throw a sleeping bag
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in it and walk up into some mountains tonight and be somewhat isolated within a couple miles
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And that might be the exact thing that I needed to isolate and just kind of get away and rest.
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That book we're reading this month in the Iron Council, you know, he said something that I was
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He said, you know, he's making a reference to God around, you know, and Christ, you know,
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creating the world and resting on the seventh day.
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He's like, he could have made it in a day, but he intentionally didn't.
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And maybe that's the model that we need to be following, that there's value in that.
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There's modeling that we should be looking at, that we need that rest part.
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If God did, what makes us any different, right?
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And so that really resonated with me when I heard that yesterday.
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Well, the other thing that I was thinking as you were talking about taking a sleeping bag
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and going up in the mountains, you could even do that with your kids.
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Because sometimes I get that you might feel guilty or selfish if you go out and do that
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Because we have a wife, we have kids, we have responsibilities, we have duties, we have
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So actually, not only would it be good for you, but it might actually be good for your
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If you said, hey, kids, pack up this weekend, it's you and me for 48 hours.
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And you go up into the mountains and you do a, there's a hike up here.
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I don't know who Molly is and I don't know if it actually looks like her nipples or not,
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Dude, and Molly has, she's all over the state of Utah.
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She's got like 17, yeah, she's got like 17 nipples all over the state of Utah.
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But anyways, regardless, you know, there's a hike that we could go up and it would take
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us, I don't know, 40 minutes to hike up with a backpack.
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I've done it with three of my, two of my boys now.
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And we go spend the night up there, come back down, takes 24 hours, less than probably 12
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And it's a really good way for me to just escape the minutia, but also a good way for
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So I think there's some opportunities there if we just are a little bit more deliberate about
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Well, and they're willing to maybe give up the pressures of the moment and realize
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You know, and that's, I'm saying that for myself, right?
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Cause that's, that's, that goes against my natural behavior.
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And I can't count how many times I've been unreasonable.
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I think the only caveat to that is if you've made commitments, right?
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So if, if I told a client, like we're recording this on a Wednesday, if I told a client,
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Hey, I'll have this to you by Friday morning, I damn well better have it to him by Friday
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But outside of those prior commitments with time constraints, like it's okay to say yes.
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I made a post about this in the iron council, like say yes.
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You know, everybody out there is taught, everybody on a podcast is talking about learn to say no,
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learn to be a little bit more discriminatory with your time schedule.
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One of the interesting things I ran across just this past week is as you and I are prepping
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for our Hawaii hunt, one of our guys who was coming out, a good friend of mine, dear friend
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And I know you met him last week or last year, excuse me, can't make it for some personal
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And he, he bowed out within a week's notice and I called my friend up or actually he called
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me and said, Hey, we've got one guy backing out.
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I made two phone calls and one, one of those men couldn't make it because he had some,
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um, financial constraints based on some property he was buying.
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The other one was like, Hey, let me talk to my wife.
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And I couldn't help but think it's guys like that who say, yep, I'm in.
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Who are the ones who are going to rule the world because they say yes to the opportunities
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that most men overlook and then have the audacity looking back six months, eight months, 12
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And they're like, why do you, why does nothing good ever happen to me?
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And you were too busy creating excuses why you couldn't.
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Well, and maybe even a good exercise is like how many of the decisions you are making day
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after day aren't even decisions that you're choosing.
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It's like no wonder why we lack some fulfillment, meaning, and purpose in our lives.
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We're making decisions to go along to keep things at peace and just go along with what
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Which is fine as long as you're willing to acknowledge it.
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And then, as I said earlier, they have the audacity to say, why doesn't my ship come in?
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So we're going to field questions from the IC, and we'll talk about this a little bit.
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We're going to be opening up for enrollment for a Q3 cohort.
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So to learn more, orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.
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How can I get my fire restarted for what I want out of life and the iron council?
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And I'm going to think of the literal definition of the word rut.
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But, you know, Kip, you and I grew up in small towns in southern Utah.
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And I'm sure after winter, we drove up the mountain or up the canyon.
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And you drove up there anyways, and you plowed your own road.
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And then what ends up happening in muddy weather is you just dig through it.
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And it's almost like tracks at Disneyland or Magic Mountain.
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You know, you can just put your wheels in the ruts, and it will almost steer the vehicle for you.
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And then if you're the guy that comes up midsummer, and you're like, what moron was driving up here when it's muddy, destroying the road.
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And you don't even acknowledge that it was you six months earlier, that you actually are the freaking idiot who did it to yourself.
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And whether it's soggy and muddy or hardened and clayed over because of the dryness, that's what a rut is.
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You can put your wheels in the rut and hit the gas, and about 90% of the effort is done by the rut itself, not by you steering the wheel.
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And sometimes, in order to avoid a rut, you just need to find a place to pop yourself out of it.
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And then what you do is you put the driver's side wheels in the center, and the passenger's side wheels on the right-hand side, almost off the edge of the dirt road.
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When there's a rut in your life, and you feel like everything is steering you and controlling you and dictating how you spend your life, and you're on autopilot, and you feel stuck, and you can't get yourself out of that rut,
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sometimes you just need to pop the wheel up, get yourself, straddle that right-hand rut, and do what you need to do and be more deliberate about where you're going.
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You know, if you're stuck at work, maybe take on a new project.
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If you're struggling with your kids, have a new conversation.
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If you're feeling down and downtrodden about where you are in life, pick up a new hobby.
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If you and your wife are on the rocks, have a new conversation.
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I think the problem for most of us when we feel like we're in these ruts is we just keep doing the same thing, and we expect, as the definition of insanity goes, expecting different results.
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You've got to pop yourself up out of that rut by doing something different.
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Read a new kind of book that you're not used to.
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Talk to your boss or your clients or your coworkers about something you've never talked to them about.
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Ask how you can push yourself or motivate yourself in a new way.
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But at some point, you've just got to pop yourself out of that rut and do something you've never done before.
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And a lot of guys are like, what does that mean?
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Just do something different than you've ever done before.
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And when you do that, I promise you, you're going to find yourself in a new set of circumstances.
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I look at the rut and I bitch about the rut the whole time.
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And actually, and I worked through this actually a few months ago.
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What's the payoff of being a victim of the rut, right?
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What it is, is it's a lack of responsibility for the current situation.
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We just get a, we take no responsibility for anything and we just get to be miserable with
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Versus if I choose to jerk that wheel and get out of the rut, it's now on me how this goes.
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But I promise you, there's no empowerment with staying there.
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There's no empowerment without choice and responsibility of the outcome of how things
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And it's probably in the mindset of being a victim, allocating blame and making excuses
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for what we're doing versus focusing on what is it that we are going to do and dealing
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You know, many, not many, all of us engage in vices.
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We engage in pride or, you know, all of these things.
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Maybe even pornography, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, womanizing, gambling, fill in the blank
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But to your point, Kip, one thing that all of us need to understand is that we would only
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engage in those behaviors if there was some sort of benefit to us.
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You know, I was driving down the road with somebody this last weekend and we saw an individual
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That's weird to me because you don't see that a whole lot anymore.
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And we both looked at each other like, was that person smoking?
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And I think this person was a European because we were in Zion National Park and it tends
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I think it's different than our culture here in America.
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Like we all have vices, but I couldn't help but think that person gets something from
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They wouldn't do it if they weren't getting some benefit out of it.
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So I do think it's important for us to acknowledge what are the benefits of our vices?
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Whether it's temporary gratification, a sense of belonging, a sense of potentially love and
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Maybe it's an escape mechanism through alcohol and drug abuse, but we're getting something
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And if we weren't, we would not be engaging in that.
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So I think more than anything, the individuals who engage in sitting in the rut and complaining
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And they get to be right probably about whatever the excuse is.
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That jackass came up six months earlier, dug a hole in the mud, and now here I am.
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I think it's about maybe at a basic level, just not being wrong.
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Dalton Harward, what are some indicators or conditions that might lead you to advise someone
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it's not the time for them to start a business?
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Man, I'm having a hard time even thinking about that because I think it's always the
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And that's not to say everybody needs to be a business owner.
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I know there's a lot of people that say you need to be a business owner.
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And if you're working for somebody else, you're hosing yourself over.
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But I guess the caveat is, is it something you're deeply interested in and something you're
00:17:09.620
And I think if you can answer both of those questions in the affirmative, then you should probably
00:17:14.400
What do you think, what's your opinion about, is it for everybody, right?
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It's like every influencer's like the answer is start your own business.
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Like I actually don't think everyone's cut for it.
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I don't think they realize the headache and the chaos of it.
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So maybe get a bit clearer on the cost and the impact that it's going to make to your
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And if you're still excited about it, then do it maybe.
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You know, start a business means that you are the owner of the business, either a sole
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proprietorship, an LLC, maybe it's a partnership, but you're the owner in some capacity, some
00:17:59.100
Um, but I, I like the thing that we've talked about in the past, which is regardless of if
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you own your own business or you work for an employer, you actually are a business owner.
00:18:13.100
Really what, what it comes down to is do you represent your employer or do you represent
00:18:23.760
I represent my clients, which are people listening to this podcast, people who come to our events,
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people who, uh, join the iron council and Kip in this context with order of man, you represent
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Now you might work with clients, but you still as, as a, as a paid participant of what we're
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doing, you represent me and my brand, but you're still a business owner.
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So you could show up powerfully like you always have, or you could show up like a sack of potatoes.
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And in that case, I would, yeah, I would choose to disengage with our relationship, our professional
00:18:57.500
And then in your full-time work, well, what, what would you say you are in your full-time
00:19:05.120
My client, like literally my client is the owner and the employees.
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And your job ultimately is to serve their clients.
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You want their clients to be served, but that's, but I serve the client.
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So, and you've been a business owner and you've worked for people as I've been a business owner
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So, you know, I, I think, I think if we look at it in the spirit of the question, it's always
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a good time to just acknowledge that you are a business owner, whether your client is your
00:19:38.300
employer or whether your client is your client.
00:19:41.480
Your, your purchasers maybe is a better way to say it.
00:19:44.200
Um, but if, if you're, if you really have the desire to serve a client directly and you
00:19:50.980
have the ability to do it, then you should always do that.
00:19:54.240
Well, and what's the, what's the, what's the other option?
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Kick the can down the road, not learn all the lessons that you can learn today.
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Like this isn't just about like, Hey, I started a business and I have a successful business.
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This is, I'm starting a business and I'm going to learn, grow, pivot, evolve, figure things
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Like it's all of that learnings that come with that process.
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You got to get the reps sooner than, than later.
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So you might as well go and start figuring that out now.
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I have a really hard time with answering this question directly because, um,
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I can't think of a time where if you have the desire and you have the means to be able
00:20:40.680
to do it, that you would say no to that question.
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If it requires a ton of financial capital, I've never been involved in a business like
00:20:52.520
But if it requires a ton of financial capital that I don't have, then maybe what I would
00:20:56.900
try to do is dip my toe in the water by finding the lowest common denominator, uh, or
00:21:01.900
minimum viable product, Kip, as you have talked about over the past several years, so that
00:21:08.540
Um, still, you know, as an, as an older man too, you know, I'm 44.
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Uh, a lot of guys who listen to this might be 22, might be half my age.
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And if you're 22, you have a lot more flexibility than I do as a 44 year old man.
00:21:30.320
And so me just throwing everything out the window and starting something new is going
00:21:35.140
to be significantly more consequential than a 22 year old who isn't married, doesn't
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have kids, doesn't have any liabilities, um, could potentially live with his parents
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Like that's a pretty damn good position to be in if you're thinking about starting something
00:21:54.620
The advantage a 22 year old has is no responsibility.
00:22:02.320
JJ gets go struggling with too many things in a very crazy life, having trouble sticking
00:22:13.680
What are ways you can stick to a BP, even if you're not a hundred percent, um, and still
00:22:22.800
Or what can you allow for yourself to not complete and say you've accomplished it?
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I've learned that the BP is my map to stay focused, but recently struggling with grace
00:22:40.960
If I had 30,000 things to do on a daily basis, cause I can do about three.
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I'm for those of you who can't see this, I'm holding up the battle plan.
00:23:00.840
If you're making it more complicated than that, that's the problem.
00:23:04.440
And a lot of guys come into our brotherhood, the iron council, and they think I'm going
00:23:10.080
You're not, you've been doing the same things over and over again for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50
00:23:15.780
And you think just by coming up and, uh, paying a hundred bucks and learning a system that
00:23:22.080
You're not, I wish I could tell you that if I could tell you that I'd charge more than
00:23:26.020
a hundred bucks a month for sure, but that's not what it is.
00:23:29.260
We're just teaching you systems that you can implement not only right now, but for the
00:23:33.520
And so what I would say to you in this case is dumb down your battle plan.
00:23:41.900
Number one, that's your mental, emotional, and spiritual health.
00:23:45.140
There's connection, which is the relationships you have with others.
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And there's contribution, which is becoming a man of value and contributing to the people
00:23:56.240
So from a calibration perspective, I'm not saying that you need to become a celibate,
00:24:02.740
a monk for the next 40 years in order to accomplish that.
00:24:06.900
But could you read the Bible in the next 90 days?
00:24:09.360
Could you go through one of Jordan Peterson's series on self-authoring in the next 90 days?
00:24:14.880
Could you, could you plan for a spiritual retreat of some sort based on your personal
00:24:19.440
faith and relationship with God and, and, and have the financial means to do that in the
00:24:26.060
And then the beauty of the 90 day battle planning system is that it's long enough where you can
00:24:31.280
experience results in 90 days, but it's short enough that you can pivot as your life requires.
00:24:35.800
So if I read the Bible, for example, in the next 90 days, maybe I want to read the Quran
00:24:40.780
the next 90 days, or maybe my first iteration of the battle plan is to read the Bible.
00:24:46.540
And then my second iteration of the battle plan is to start a men's group at my church
00:24:50.720
So you just do it in order and take it in stride.
00:24:53.140
The odds are as of, again, I'm 44 years old, so I'm more than halfway through my life,
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but I still have another good, hopefully good four decades of my life that I can just
00:25:02.220
spend my time focused in one of those areas in each of those quadrants for the next 90
00:25:09.180
If I really decide that one of my children is struggling and I spend the night next 90
00:25:13.220
days hyper-focused on one of my kids, not at the expense of my others, but I really,
00:25:17.960
really pour in to one of my children on the 91st day, I might be able to pick one of my
00:25:25.400
And in a year, again, not at the expense of the others, but in a year with four children,
00:25:31.160
I've poured heavily into each one of my children for 90 days straight.
00:25:36.160
Or if we're talking about the contribution side of things becoming a man of value, maybe
00:25:41.040
it's me just wanting to pay down some debt and save some money and create financial prosperity.
00:25:50.480
Maybe for the first 90 days, I need to hammer out some debt.
00:25:53.400
Maybe I've got $10,000 in debt and I feel like I can hammer that out in the next 90
00:25:57.240
days with a bonus or some extra work or just paying it down or whatever.
00:26:02.680
And then come Q4, now it's not about hammering out debt.
00:26:06.740
Now it's about saving $10,000 for the remainder of the year.
00:26:10.880
So on January 1st, I'm going to take my kids down to the beach and we're going to spend a
00:26:14.900
week with my wife and kids and we're going to have fun and enjoy ourselves.
00:26:17.780
But you have to take it in stride, not just assume that you can fix everything all at
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once. And that's the biggest temptation that men have when they join the Iron Council and
00:26:26.360
pick up the battle planning system is let's fix it all at once.
00:26:29.620
Don't just fix four things, simple things right now.
00:26:33.800
And then come Q4, we'll focus on either the same if we haven't totally addressed it or
00:26:41.160
I heard a really good quote one day years and years ago at this point, excuse me.
00:26:45.220
And I'm paraphrasing and it said the, the, the, again, I'm paraphrasing, but it was like
00:26:50.040
the, um, the most important thing in life you can do is find bigger problems to solve.
00:26:57.900
And the problems that I'm solving right now are not getting out of debt and I'm not bashing
00:27:03.720
I've been there, but those aren't problems I'm trying to solve.
00:27:07.660
So my problems now are how do I invest in my business?
00:27:17.040
But 20 years ago, bro, I was wearing dirt tracks in my grass, in my backyard, pacing in the backyard,
00:27:23.360
wondering how I was going to make the mortgage payment.
00:27:26.140
My problems have evolved and your problems should evolve too.
00:27:30.240
You know, it's not only is that effective and it serves men and they'll have progress this
00:27:35.640
way, but the other benefit JJ is you get to be a man that honors his word and his commitment
00:27:43.740
At one area of his question, he said, or what can you allow for yourself to not complete
00:27:51.880
How about instead of thinking that way, how about we don't do things or we don't say we're
00:27:57.960
going to do things unless we're going to do them.
00:28:00.080
And we become a man of integrity and we honor our commitments.
00:28:03.920
There's more value in what we're saying, simplifying it and you being a man of integrity than you
00:28:10.500
shooting for the sky and just dropping the ball.
00:28:12.740
Not only is it not efficient, but what are you doing with your internal psyche and internal
00:28:17.620
dialogue when we're out of integrity that I constantly see I'm going to do something
00:28:24.860
You don't think that affects our relationships with other people when we constantly don't show
00:28:31.000
Oh man, like I would even argue that that might be even more important than the results of
00:28:36.660
So, you know, one of the benefits, simplify it, yes, for efficiency, but simplifying it
00:28:42.080
and honor it for your own personal benefit as a human being.
00:28:45.540
And I don't want to rat hole too much, but like realize that when we are out of integrity,
00:28:52.660
You're going against your own consciousness of what you know you should do.
00:28:56.420
And most of the justification when we're out of integrity is a result of blame towards
00:29:07.140
And I would really double down on the importance of honoring your commitment to yourself.
00:29:13.940
I went out to dinner with somebody this weekend and she said to me, when you go out to dinner,
00:29:18.920
do you choose the thing you always choose or do you choose something different?
00:29:21.820
And I said to her, I choose the thing that I always choose.
00:29:28.720
Like, aren't you going to miss out on opportunities?
00:29:30.180
I'm like, why would I, why would I invest in a 50% bet when I have a hundred percent bet?
00:29:36.220
And that's kind of, I think the point that you're making, you know, we have a lot of
00:29:40.860
And sometimes we pursue the thing that isn't 100%, you know, it seems fun.
00:29:47.740
Why don't you lock in the hundred percent first?
00:29:50.640
And then once you lock in the hundred percent, you know, then you can get to the ancillary
00:29:56.900
So if I go out, for example, for sushi, I'm always going to pick the role that I know I
00:30:00.340
like, but I'm always going to pick one more that maybe I've never tried before.
00:30:03.520
But the first thing I'm going to address is the one that I know I like.
00:30:07.440
And the one that I know is a hundred percent guarantee.
00:30:10.280
And it's the same thing with the way that we spend our time.
00:30:12.720
We're out there chasing so many different things in our lives.
00:30:15.620
What if you just pursued the thing that you knew, knew would work?
00:30:20.500
Tap into a higher power, connect with the relationship that needs you the most right
00:30:23.800
now, focus your training on what specifically you're trying to accomplish and figure out
00:30:27.800
how you can become more of a man of value and pick the highest percent chance of you
00:30:40.740
But for now, lock it in, tighten that stuff up.
00:30:44.840
Well, and Chris Davis, our next question, it's actually perfectly aligned because this is
00:30:53.220
I sometimes find myself setting goals and tactics for my battle plan.
00:30:57.080
Then as time goes by, I lose interest in them, like a shallow relationship with a woman or
00:31:04.740
What are strategies to keep on the beam or the straight and narrow with our goals and
00:31:10.100
In this case of my vision isn't exciting, or I am not investing the time into the relationship
00:31:18.280
I was curious what are your thoughts on this matter.
00:31:21.560
Well, Chris, I would say that you're being a little flippant and you're not really, this
00:31:26.660
You're not really acting like a man in those moments.
00:31:29.460
And I'm not trying to be, I'm really not trying to be critical of you in that way because I've
00:31:36.600
But I think one of the things that makes us men is discipline.
00:31:39.880
And discipline to me means doing things you committed to doing when you don't feel like
00:31:46.080
And sometimes when you get into relationships, you're not going to feel like doing all the
00:31:51.600
things that you did when you first got into the relationship.
00:31:54.060
Sometimes when you're trying to build a new workout program, you feel really good about
00:31:59.840
And then after doing it for six or eight or nine weeks, you're like, oh, this is boring.
00:32:09.240
I pulled up a couple of things for some reference.
00:32:11.420
So in Matthew 6, 24, it says this, this is the King James version.
00:32:16.560
No man can serve two masters for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else
00:32:21.140
he will hold the one, hold to the one and despise the other.
00:32:28.640
It's basically worldly possessions essentially is what mammon is.
00:32:32.700
So a little bit of a different context, but if you're chasing two different things,
00:32:36.400
you're not going to catch any one of them, which brings me to the next proverb.
00:32:39.160
And it says the man who chases two rabbits catches neither.
00:32:42.820
So you might find yourself chasing a quote unquote rabbit.
00:32:46.380
And then as you're chasing that rabbit, you see another one and it's bigger and it's,
00:32:50.460
it's more beautiful and it's, it's more enticing.
00:32:54.720
And so you chase that one at the expense of losing the other, and then the other one disappears
00:33:01.420
If you're going to, if you have more energy to spend, then you're not spending enough energy
00:33:07.220
And I think that's where we need to, I think that's the point we need to get down to.
00:33:11.820
We don't want to be, I don't think we want to be shallow across a thousand different aptitudes.
00:33:16.880
I think we want to go deep on a dozen or five or four or whatever the number is.
00:33:21.260
I'd much rather go deep with one woman, for example, or I'd much rather go deep with one
00:33:27.240
type of training schedule or much deeper on one activity and one hobby.
00:33:33.160
Because I know that if I engage fully in that woman or that workout or that hobby, I'll get
00:33:39.480
so much further than if I spread my attention and resources because they are finite across
00:33:44.500
multiple women or multiple training modalities or multiple hobbies.
00:33:49.640
Double down on the thing and know that it's not always going to be comfortable or fun, but
00:33:54.820
Not only because of the result you will produce, but because what you will learn in the process
00:33:59.740
of maintaining focus and consistency and sacrifice and doing things when you don't always feel
00:34:08.220
I think those are very manly activities that we ought to embrace outside of what the results
00:34:14.200
Well, and I think the way we get pressed into that is we realize like, what's, what's the
00:34:18.940
What's the price of me chasing the next shiny object?
00:34:21.560
Well, the probable future is I'm not going to get either, right?
00:34:24.540
Or I'm going to keep never truly succeeding, right?
00:34:29.640
It's this, you know, and I never have mastery or professional growth in my career, right?
00:34:34.980
Like there, you'd have to look far to realize that that the probable future of that approach
00:34:42.680
Well, Kip, I think one of the problems is some people will say, well, you know, I could
00:34:46.300
double down on this, but let's say it's a woman.
00:34:48.680
I could double down on this woman, but what if it goes sideways?
00:34:52.320
Then you'll learn, you'll learn and you'll know that it was possible.
00:34:55.940
Because you gave it your all and it still didn't work.
00:34:59.740
Like now, you know, but if you half-ass it, was it me?
00:35:03.800
This is what, I struggle with this around like counselors or anybody that suggests like
00:35:14.260
This is why I don't like it because what are you saying?
00:35:21.140
The probability of success, dude, you got to be in and until you're not, but at least
00:35:26.980
Yeah, because the outcome of not going all in is losing.
00:35:32.400
Whether it's a romantic relationship or a business venture or a hobby or activity,
00:35:40.460
You know, so for example, if a man is dating multiple women and many people would say date
00:35:48.840
I understand the sentiment, but now you're dabbling with three women and what are the
00:35:55.620
Because the two women who you aren't totally attracted to are feeling slighted.
00:36:00.480
And the one you are totally attracted to feels like she's not enough.
00:36:08.060
And it's the same thing when you pursue two different career paths.
00:36:11.520
I think one of the problems though, Kip, is a lot of guys get hung up like, well, what
00:36:20.420
Or what if I go all in on this thing that I'm interested in and it doesn't work out?
00:36:25.880
You'll learn, you'll grow, you'll develop, and you're still alive.
00:36:32.000
Most likely it wasn't anything completely catastrophic or life-threatening or crippling to your own
00:36:38.320
And then you'll just realize, hey, that was a learning experience.
00:36:41.200
I'm going to go on to the next business or the next woman or the next fill in the blank.
00:36:45.480
Do you think this is just fear of failure, right?
00:36:48.120
And by not going all in on the thing, Ryan, then I don't take the responsibility of failure
00:37:04.500
It's just, it's hard for me to say because I don't resonate with it.
00:37:07.160
Like I would rather, I mean, if we're thinking about it, I don't, I don't really, I can't
00:37:11.220
really think of a great analogy necessarily right now, but I'd much rather go all in.
00:37:16.080
You know, I had a friend when, when we were in college and he would go every once in a
00:37:20.420
hour, we'd go down to Vegas or Mesquite and do a little gambling.
00:37:23.680
And he'd go, he'd always laugh when people played blackjack.
00:37:31.240
And he put, he, he always said, I put it all on the red train.
00:37:37.120
So he'd go drop a lot of money on one spin, all on red and he'd lose big or win big.
00:37:47.280
That's the problem is that most people deviate.
00:37:54.720
So he'd go ride the red train and he would lose.
00:37:57.720
Because when he lost, he didn't say, okay, I'm going to ride the black train.
00:38:00.400
He said, nope, I'm going to go ride the red train again.
00:38:03.280
And he would double down and he'd win all his money plus some back.
00:38:11.460
And if it's not the one, then you'll find out in short order.
00:38:15.680
If it's a business venture, you'll find out in short order.
00:38:23.920
Like I'm self-evaluating right now and thinking about this is like,
00:38:27.480
how many areas of my life presently or even in the past where I'm not fully committed
00:38:41.080
Or are there little shiny objects of dopamine that I, you know, chase, right?
00:38:53.640
The price is failure or, or, or the opportunity to learn and grow, you know, that might be
00:39:01.000
I think it's transcendent to almost all things.
00:39:05.320
I had a friend of mine call me up and he's like, Hey, I have this business opportunity
00:39:09.620
And he sent me a couple of overviews on it and it looks super boring.
00:39:14.640
And I called him up and I said, Hey, I'm not interested.
00:39:20.460
I was very, I'm not interested in your, in your boring, generic, lame plan.
00:39:29.500
He was just representing somebody, a company, a startup.
00:39:32.680
And I messaged him and I was respectful and I said, Hey man, really, truly thanks for the
00:39:36.700
opportunity, but this isn't, I'm not interested.
00:39:39.500
It's, I, I have a couple of other outside investments that I'm more closely tied with
00:39:44.000
that are more intriguing and interesting to me.
00:39:46.880
And he told me about a couple of other things, but the answer was still no.
00:39:49.340
I already made the, I made the decision within three seconds, but most people will make the
00:39:54.020
decision within three seconds, but then they'll try to rationalize and justify an excuse and
00:39:58.200
be like, well, maybe what if, what if that we do it with, with relationships too.
00:40:02.900
You know, you'll go out with a woman and you're like, yeah, I'm not interested, but maybe
00:40:06.180
if this, and maybe if that, and maybe in this scenario, no, no, no, no,
00:40:09.440
no, you're not interested or alternatively, you are interested.
00:40:15.660
Maybe that's a mentality thing, but that seemed to, seems to have served me well.
00:40:20.280
Joe Marino, if you were able to have president Trump on the podcast, how would you frame the
00:40:31.880
I mean, I think if I had Trump on, I would really try as best I could.
00:40:40.760
He believes, obviously we've all heard him say like, my plan is the best plan, even though
00:40:46.760
I'm the best negotiator, even though you're not the best negotiator.
00:40:50.500
But I think, I think what I would try to do is I would try to approach and I would try
00:40:56.780
to question him to ask where he's strong and where he's weak.
00:41:02.340
You know, everybody wants to debate and everybody has their own ideas and everybody has their
00:41:06.960
And some are warranted and valid, but I think sometimes just asking powerful questions is
00:41:14.280
So with Trump, I might say, hey, where do you feel like is your strongest, what is your strongest
00:41:19.380
And I think you'd probably say immigration, because that clearly is his strongest position.
00:41:24.460
And then I'd say, okay, well, if that's your strongest position, what is your weakest position?
00:41:35.660
You know, I don't know all the details and ramifications.
00:41:38.760
I'm not privy to all the information, but I would say that's probably his weakest area.
00:41:43.320
But what I am good at doing is asking good questions.
00:41:48.500
And I'm willing to acknowledge that I'm a great conversationalist where I can actually
00:41:52.760
ask questions that elicit honest, genuine responses.
00:41:57.020
And so I don't think I would necessarily need to debate if he's being smart about it.
00:42:01.560
He knows his tariff strategy is not necessarily working.
00:42:04.940
I would really debate on the broad application of tariffs as opposed to the very sniper-like
00:42:11.760
precision implementation of tariffs on certain countries based on our own U.S.'s self-interests.
00:42:18.140
I think those are probably the two biggest issues, tariffs and immigration, where he's the weakest
00:42:24.000
on tariffs and foreign, well, economic policy in that position.
00:42:29.020
And then national sovereignty through immigration is probably his strongest.
00:42:35.020
It'd be really nice if you could get, if you could expose or allow him to expose his humanity
00:42:45.780
And like, what are his, like, what is his top fears?
00:42:49.300
Like, what's the areas that he's concerned about in his personal life or for the country?
00:42:55.000
Well, where's his top fear of failing as a president that he's concerned about?
00:43:00.460
Not to expose anything, it's just, where's his, what's in that guy's head?
00:43:06.300
I mean, the problem with that at this point, I mean, yeah, well, that's the point.
00:43:15.020
And he's, and it's not just politics, he's been in the public eye for decades, probably
00:43:23.380
So getting him to get down to his roots about what he really believes, I actually don't know
00:43:31.940
Because he's intelligent enough not to go there because that's not what he's interested
00:43:38.880
He's very interested in the notoriety and accolades.
00:43:40.980
And that's not to say, I'm a fan of Trump for the most part, not exclusively, but for
00:43:46.720
And so that's not to say that he doesn't have some good policy.
00:43:49.580
I think his foreign policy was probably better in Trump 1.0 than it is better in 2.0.
00:43:59.220
I really thought when you and I started talking about tariffs that he was doing it as leverage,
00:44:03.360
but come to find out, he actually just likes tariffs.
00:44:12.980
But the problem is, a stick is fine if you know who to beat with a stick.
00:44:17.080
But if I had a stick and I had 10 people in front of me and half of them were my friends
00:44:21.580
and half of them were my enemies, I don't think I would just go start beating the shit
00:44:26.180
I think I'd try to figure out, okay, who are the five that are my friends?
00:44:32.080
And then I'm going to beat everybody else with the stick.
00:44:36.440
Or who else has another stick that might be a little too big for me to beat, you know?
00:44:45.640
You know, but that's not to say there isn't a threat.
00:44:51.700
You know, I think those would generally be the...
00:44:55.320
Probably none of them are much of a threat because they're so weak economically that they
00:44:59.140
wouldn't represent a political, a real political threat if we were serious as a country
00:45:06.120
But yeah, I think I would invite my friends over and say, hey, here's a stick, here's
00:45:09.980
And I'd give everybody else a stick and I'd say, let's go beat those two people up that
00:45:13.420
don't have sticks and we'll beat the shit out of them together.
00:45:16.700
But he's not very good at consolidating allies that way, unfortunately.
00:45:25.280
He says, during the Forge event, I scored well on the relationship dial.
00:45:30.800
I'm assuming this was kind of an exercise with Keith Yackey.
00:45:36.400
He says, after that session, he had a few guys come up and ask for advice.
00:45:40.960
Although I'm very proud of the solid foundation my wife and I have built over the last 20 years,
00:45:49.460
First, I feel my wife and I are vastly different than most couples today.
00:45:53.680
And second, I almost felt as if I was bragging.
00:45:56.880
I made sure to preface everything I said with, this works for us because I do not feel like
00:46:05.620
I want to be more confident and help people where I can.
00:46:08.360
Any tips on how I can learn to give personal advice with some more confidence when people
00:46:16.560
You know, Bob, I think you said, and I'm actually did, I just recorded a podcast earlier
00:46:21.220
today, Kip, on imposter syndrome that's going to come out on Friday.
00:46:24.360
So in two days, make sure you listen to that podcast because I talk about imposter syndrome.
00:46:29.520
And I think that's what he's running against is that he has some good ideas and people clearly
00:46:35.340
Here's the thing that we need to know that I alluded to on that Friday episode is you
00:46:39.980
don't get to determine what is valuable for other people.
00:46:42.400
I don't get to determine what's valuable to you or how you spend your time, Kip.
00:46:46.520
I might give recommendations and suggestions based on what I think is right, but ultimately
00:46:57.380
You're the one trying to solicit ideas and insight.
00:47:02.000
So I do like the framing of, hey, I don't know if this is universally true, but this is
00:47:08.600
And then I think by doing that, you eliminate some of that imposter syndrome.
00:47:12.780
But also in addition to that, to have confidence, just look at your fruits.
00:47:17.860
You know, I don't know how long you've been married.
00:47:19.680
I don't know what your relationship looks like.
00:47:22.140
I think it actually isn't Matthew without me looking it up that says something to the
00:47:26.940
effect in the scriptures that by their fruits, you shall know thee.
00:47:30.040
So if you've created financial prosperity and abundance and somebody is coming to you with
00:47:34.640
less financial prosperity and abundance, you actually have something to share.
00:47:39.780
If you've been married for 20 years and somebody is coming to you for advice and insight, bro,
00:47:53.460
I think it's meaningful and significant, but you clearly have something to share.
00:47:57.020
So I would get in the practice of two things on a daily basis.
00:48:01.400
I would get out my journal and I've got mine right here.
00:48:03.500
And every day, well, just about every day, I write in my journal and I write what I'm
00:48:12.320
Number two, I write where I would like to improve for the day.
00:48:28.080
But very rarely do you hear anybody talk about what they're good at.
00:48:32.020
And the more you talk about what you're good at, the more you will acknowledge that, you
00:48:37.640
And I think acknowledging that could be helpful.
00:48:41.100
You know, this is a really fun question by him.
00:48:46.500
And it's really interesting because I think part of this is confidence, which is, don't
00:48:52.320
get me wrong, not beating you up, but like, it's about who?
00:48:56.380
And then when we look on the flip side of, well, how do I best impact people?
00:49:01.800
It is always in the space of creating possibility and ideas for others to accept for themselves.
00:49:10.880
Like in the church that I was raised in, that I think you were raised in as well, is
00:49:17.340
like we have a concept of fast and testimony meeting, first Sunday of each month.
00:49:23.060
The power of that is no one's preaching at you.
00:49:26.900
What happens if I preach at Ryan right now and I go, oh, you know, Ryan, this is what
00:49:34.200
Human behavior is you'll start evaluating what I'm saying.
00:49:45.040
But if I share with you with excitement and passion and inspiration around like what's
00:49:49.760
worked for me and what's, and I'm so excited because I'd done this with my wife and this
00:49:53.980
worked for our relationship and I just share, no one's listening to disagree with you.
00:50:01.020
And so the impact of the share is always higher if it's not in the space of preaching, but
00:50:06.980
always in the space of just creating possibility for others to consider for themselves.
00:50:11.080
So just be excited about what you and your wife has done.
00:50:16.180
Like you said, Ryan, it's not up to you to convince anybody of anything.
00:50:20.740
You're letting your light shine since you're throwing all the biblical references out today,
00:50:25.480
So you're just shining your light and people see it.
00:50:28.580
And when they're ready and if it works for them, they'll be drawn to it.
00:50:34.820
Well, there's a great book that I recently read called Let Them by Mel Robbins.
00:50:38.560
And I don't normally and typically resonate with her messaging and the way she delivers
00:50:43.040
But that book was really powerful because you can, it allows you to acknowledge that you
00:50:47.460
can share what's on your mind, what works for you, what you think is good, what you
00:50:52.080
think is valuable, your principles of living, and then just letting other people make their
00:50:58.040
If you came to me and said, hey, Ryan, I need some advice on X, Y, and Z.
00:51:01.500
I would give you my advice with the, with the idea that as, as a grown man, you can make
00:51:11.080
I'm not going to, I'm just not going to just go do it.
00:51:17.320
Like you need to filter that through because you're a grown man.
00:51:21.940
And if I share something with you after you've asked me and you don't appreciate it or don't
00:51:28.140
I think the only caveat to that is being cautious of offering unsolicited advice.
00:51:33.840
But if somebody is coming to you and saying, hey, what about this?
00:51:41.160
That's one of the things I see a lot of guys do personally, professionally, romantically.
00:51:46.500
You know, somebody will ask, like a woman will ask their opinion.
00:51:53.200
If she comes out and she's wearing a dress or wearing a couple different dresses and you're
00:52:05.580
If a friend comes to you and says, hey, I'm dealing with this thing with my wife.
00:52:11.940
He's not asking for what you think he should think.
00:52:15.660
And then he, again, is a grown man who was conscious enough to ask for advice from somebody
00:52:24.060
Let me run this by you because I find this fascinating.
00:52:26.280
So I've done business consulting for, it's pretty much my entire career for the most
00:52:32.820
I've, I have been a consultant and I just learned this lesson.
00:52:36.200
I didn't have this distinction for me just because I just learned what worked, what didn't
00:52:40.740
And years ago, I have some junior consultants and I'm seeing what, what they're doing.
00:52:47.200
And I'm thinking, what is it that they're doing?
00:52:50.880
They would, you know, let's say Ryan's a client and Ryan's like, hey, you know, I want
00:52:54.420
to implement the system, the automated business process.
00:52:56.640
And these young consultants would go, well, Mr. Bickler, there's a lot of many different
00:53:04.560
You know, if you do this, this, this, you can have option one.
00:53:11.360
And, and I'm like, and the client's like, why, why am I even having this conversation
00:53:20.420
And, and that's, that's where I tell, uh, new employees or early consultants, right.
00:53:25.700
That are early in their career is the clients not necessarily coming to you to know all the
00:53:31.520
The clients come to you because they don't want the burden of making the decision.
00:53:37.280
So it is your job to have a strong, confident opinion of what they should do.
00:53:43.120
It's like when we go to the, the doctor, right.
00:53:47.920
You know, damn well, what you should be doing, right.
00:53:50.700
To rehab a knee or maybe like what your nutrition is.
00:53:55.200
Well, I'm going to hire a nutritionist and they're going to tell me the damn same thing
00:54:00.520
Because I want the peace of mind that it's the right decision.
00:54:03.980
And so sometimes human behavior is they're, they're outsourcing the peace of mind to you,
00:54:14.240
And as I hear you say that there's a real opportunity here again, professionally or personally, when
00:54:19.540
somebody is, and I agree with you, when somebody is outsourcing their peace of mind, that is
00:54:32.820
And then you say it and you know what it does in that moment?
00:54:40.120
And then when you have a client who's like, what should I do?
00:54:46.740
And your client's like, oh, thank you for leading me.
00:54:53.900
So when your wife says, which dress do you like?
00:54:59.060
She's asking how you can look, how she can look good for you.
00:55:08.100
They're probably, in a lot of cases, they're probably more successful financially than even
00:55:12.320
So just answer the question because it presents opportunities that most people won't step
00:55:18.060
And most people, to Bob's point, are like, I don't know.
00:55:21.540
I don't feel comfortable answering that question.
00:55:23.580
And I'm, that, Bob, that's not your voice because we know each other.
00:55:26.940
So maybe I'm not doing you justice with that, with that voice that I'm making right now.
00:55:38.940
They want you to say, do this, do that, do this.
00:55:43.440
And you just practice, as you say, get the reps.
00:55:48.320
So Iron Council, it's open, actually, for enrollment.
00:56:01.000
So if you go to orderman.com slash Iron Council, we are officially open for duty right now.
00:56:11.220
We're going to have those in the next couple of days.
00:56:15.000
So connect with me, at Ryan Mickler, on X, Instagram, and Facebook, and we'll get those
00:56:23.080
Looking forward to spending some more time together next week on our hunt.
00:56:28.280
Hopefully, as always, we gave you some things to consider.
00:56:31.680
Trying to think, because we're recording this in advance.
00:56:42.820
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
00:56:45.800
If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,
00:56:49.820
we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.