TIM GROVER ｜ Winning Requires ALL of You
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 14 minutes
Words per Minute
175.05208
Summary
What does it mean to win in life? and more importantly, what does it actually take to do so? These are questions my guest today, Tim Grover, has been exploring and frankly, succeeding with for decades as coach to both Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, among so many other incredible athletes and performers. Today, Tim and I explore how to differentiate between allies and friends, taking what you want out of life, the sprint vs. marathon method of winning, and why winning requires all of you to be a man of action.
Transcript
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What does it mean to win in life? And more importantly, what does it actually take to do so?
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These are questions my guest today, Tim Grover has been exploring and frankly, succeeding with
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for decades as coach to both Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, among so many other incredible
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athletes and performers today, Tim and I explore how to differentiate between allies and friends.
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And there is a very, very important distinction, taking what you want out of life, the sprint
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versus marathon method of winning and why winning requires all of you.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are
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not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.
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This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call
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yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I am the host and the
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founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. And I've got a special guest for you today as I do
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every week. But Tim Grover is on another level. Guys, this guy is incredibly, incredibly successful.
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And not only that, he's helped so many high performers become incredibly successful in their
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own right. And I think there's something special about that. So we're going to get into it in just a
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minute. If you're new, just joining us. And there's a lot of you. I was looking at the download
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numbers in the past couple of days and guys, we are over 35 million podcast downloads. Listen to that
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35 million podcast downloads. I can't tell you thank you enough. I can't tell you how honored and humbled
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I am that you would tune in, that you would listen to me and of course my guests and that you would
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take the information. This is the most important thing that you'd take the information. You would
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apply it in your life. You would become a more capable man. You would serve your family, serve
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your community, serve your businesses, serve your community. I think I already said that twice now.
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I guess that just goes to show how important it is in serving your community and that you would do
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it successfully and you would do it with honor and class and dignity and capability. And that's what
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this podcast is all about. It's about giving you men, the tools you need to thrive as men in a society
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that doesn't want you to be men. We are the antithesis of that. We are the premier resource
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for helping you step into the man that you're capable of becoming and the man that people need you to be.
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So glad you're tuning in now, without further ado, I'm going to get to my guest today. He is the one
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and only Tim Grover. He's coached to two of the greatest basketball players to ever walk the face
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of the earth. Mr. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and of course, hundreds of others of NBA players, MLB
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players, NFL players, athletes. And it's not meant to discount them, of course, because the lineup of men
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that he's coached is incredible, but he's also the bestselling author of relentless. Uh, and I'm sure
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we're going to be able to say that about his newest book winning. Uh, in addition to that, he is the CEO
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of attack athletics and has frankly dedicated his entire life to teaching the science and art of
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physical and mental dominance. You're going to hear about that in the podcast and ultimately achieving
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excellence. Tim, what's up, man? Great to see you. I'm glad to have you on the podcast today.
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Ryan, that's awesome, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I'm honored to be a
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part of this podcast. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You bet. I read your book relentless. And of course,
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I've got an early copy, which I don't know if I was supposed to, but I made a post of this on
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Instagram and I can't tell you how many guys are like, what the hell? How'd you get a copy? So
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I feel pretty privileged to not only get a copy, but to be able to have a conversation with you.
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Yeah. Hey, that's awesome, man. Listen, there's a reason you could tell them why you got,
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you got it. They didn't get it. So let them to level up to you.
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That's, you know, I appreciate you saying that because one thing that I really, really admire
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and appreciate about you is you are not one of these politically correct guys who says all the
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quote unquote, right things, trying to make people feel good about themselves. You speak the truth,
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you share the harsh realities. And I think that's what it takes to win and thrive.
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Well, I'll go with one step farther, Ryan. You said what it takes, what you think it takes to win.
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I would take the think part out of that. That's what it does take to win. It does. You know,
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we all, everybody wants to fluff. Everybody wants to, everybody wants to sugar. Everybody wants all
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that stuff. They want that instant gratification to feel good. You know, it's funny, Ryan, we talk
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about this all the time. And I know you, uh, you agree with this is everybody's looking for motivation.
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And to me, motivation is entry level. It's like,
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do you really, at what point don't you need someone else to constantly motivate you, tell you
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what's going on? So you can go there to listen to them for them to keep you on track, but it's got
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to come with inside. It's got to, something's got to burn inside of you to be like, Hey,
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this is on me. Everything that's happened. Everything that's going on is because of the
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decisions I made or the decisions I didn't make is why I'm in my, I'm in the circumstances I'm in
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instead of looking around and blaming this person and this person and that person. And that's what
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motivation does. Motivation is like, everybody's looking for that external thing. Well, what is it
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internally that lights your fire? What is internally that keeps you accountable for where you are in
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your life? You know, it's funny because occasionally I'll get people who are not, not occasionally quite
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often. Actually people ask me what, what keeps you motivated? What keeps you inspired? It's actually
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very hard for me to compute that question because I can't, I can't quite understand not wanting to be
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as good as you possibly can be and why people struggle so hard with that. Like I don't, I don't
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struggle to get out of bed. I don't struggle to get on this podcast. I don't struggle to be engaged
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with my family. That isn't something I need to be motivated about. I'm excited about it. I want to
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do as good as I possibly can. Motivation doesn't seem to be an issue. It's unbelievable. So it's funny.
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We're going to have a great time. We're going to have a great time here. You know, in the book winning,
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I talk about everyone's, here's a, here's something, here's a cliche you hear all the
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time. All right. Showing up is half the battle. No, showing up is none of the battles. It's none
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of the battles. I'm like, you know, people want a victory for something they're supposed to do.
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All right. Like I'm supposed to show up on your pie. Oh, you know, Hey, you know, you're supposed to
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be excited to get out of bed every day. You're fortunate enough to have that day because one
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day we ain't going to have that day and it's not going to be our choice. It may not be our choice.
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So be excited, be excited about that. Be excited about what you're, what, you know, doing what
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you do. Be excited about being with your family. You know, just, just don't show up just to show up.
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I hate that. You know, showing up is none of the battle. If showing up is half the battle,
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then you are 100% a motivational individual because somebody else is forcing you to show up.
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Like, man, I got to show up for this. I'm like, listen, when they told me you wanted to do this
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pie, I was like, this is awesome. I said, let's get, let's get this in.
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Yeah. It is funny when you hear that, when, when people say, like you said, motivation is,
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or, or showing up is half the battle. Like showing up is the ticket to entry. Congratulations. You're
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there. Like anybody can show up. That doesn't mean you did anything special. It means you showed up
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now. What? Yeah, exactly. Now what, now what, but that's the thing people want, they, they think
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showing up is the now what they're like, I'm here. I did, I did what I was, I did what I was supposed
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to do. You know, how many people do you know that just show up, but aren't really there because they're
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waiting for somebody else to tell them what to think, how to act, how to be, uh, what to say.
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Yeah. I think that's pretty indicative of culture and society today. Uh, I remember when, look, I'll be
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frank here. And I think being truthful is the most important thing. When I was a, when I was a kid
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in high school, I wasn't the best athlete. I was slightly better than average. I can admit that.
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And I remember my coach cut me from, or excuse me, he didn't cut me. He pulled me from my starting
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position as catcher on the baseball team. And I was pretty upset about that because I was a senior.
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I felt like I was entitled. It was my right to be the starting catcher. And I remember talking with
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my mother and my mom said, I don't know why he did it. Why don't you go talk to him?
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And the best thing about my mother is that she never enabled me. She never said, yeah,
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your coach is a jerk, or he doesn't appreciate you, or he doesn't like you. She said, I don't
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know. I'll go talk to him and figure it out. So I went and talked to my coach and he laid down some
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cold, hard truth. And the best thing my mother did for me as a young man is she agreed with him.
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I didn't want her to, I wanted her to fight with him, but she agreed with him. And she said, yep,
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that's exactly right. You need to work harder. You need to train harder. You need to do better.
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And I don't think a lot of young men in society are getting that today, unfortunately.
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No, they're not because it's like, it's everybody else's fault. There's no accountability. There's
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no accountability there. Here's what happens. All right. Everybody wants to rest in the middle.
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Rest at the end. Rest at the end. You know, people think that they've accomplished a little
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something, you know, okay, you made the baseball team. This was your senior year. So if you take
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that statement, rest at the end and not at the middle, you, you said it yourself. I was entitled.
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I said, my senior year. So what did you do? You rested in the middle. And your mom was like,
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no, no, no, that's not happening. Too many times we let people rest when they shouldn't be resting.
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We let them sit. We don't let them finish the job. The job is not finished. My definition of finished
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and other people's definition of finished is, is completely different. Most people's definition
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of finish is I'm done with it. My definition of finish is done. What's next.
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Yeah. That's interesting because I know in the conversations I have, and I imagine we are very
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similar. I know the men that you have coached in your life are very similar. It's hard for me to
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celebrate any sort of perceived victory. You know, I might smile for a minute and be glad that that
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happened, but okay. Well, that was, that was earlier today. That was an hour ago. Like you said,
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what's next. You're always chasing that wind. You're always chasing that next wind. That's why
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you're excited about life. That's why you're excited about what's going on because you're not afraid of
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the challenges. You are going after that next challenge. You're going after the next win. You're
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going after that next uncomfortable situation. We want to wake up. We want to wake up and we expect
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the next day or this day only to wear a halo. I mean, I'm looking at this selfie light that I got.
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It's a nice little circle. It's got a nice little circle thing. That's brought up that that's shining
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in my face right now. But as I say in winning, we don't know what day and what winning, how it's
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going to show up. It may show up with a halo. It may show up with fangs. It may show up with fangs
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in an hour and then a halo in 30 minutes and then go back and forth. You got to be, you got to be
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excited for both. You got to be ready to be able to deal with both. You have to have individuals that
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hold you accountable. Like you said, your mom said the coach, the coach is right. Because if
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everybody's always telling you that you're right and they're not right, you're never going to know
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how to deal with the fangs. And there's more fangs in this world than there are halos.
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Do you, so the best competitors in the world, we take guys like Kobe Bryant and we take guys like
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Michael Jordan and other men that you have coached. Do these guys, when, when they see the fangs,
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does that turn them on? Is that what drives them? Do they step up to that? Do they enjoy it? Do they
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like it better than the halos? Yes, they do. Yes, they do. But see, here's the thing.
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Their switch is never turned off. You know, most people, when the halo comes on, they, they, you know,
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you hear this adage too about, oh, you know, uh, there, I know how to turn on the switch. The greatest
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competitors, that switch never turns off. It takes too much energy to start that, to light that switch
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back up. If you were to cut out all the power in your house, in your studio, everything, all right.
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And you waited 30 seconds, you turned it back on. It wouldn't pop right back on. It would take a
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little while for everything that, for everything to happen. Now, if you were just to dim the switch and
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you had control over how bright you wanted it to go. And then when you needed to turn it all the way
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on, it would go on just like, it would go on just like that. So that's the difference. So what they
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do is a lot of individuals, when they get in that comfort zone and they see the halo, they turn the
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switch off. Those individuals, they always keep their hand on the switch and they're like, eh, you
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know what? I don't know what's going to happen. When the fangs come out, they turn that thing all the
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way up and they have total control over that switch. When you said earlier about you're excited
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about all these different things, a lot of individuals that do what you do or try to do
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what you do, they may not be excited about everything else, but they get excited about hosting their
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podcast. Let's say they host a podcast. So what happens is they like to perform under the bright
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lights. Michael Jordan, Kobe, the greatest individuals, you know, in sports and business
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or everything, they don't even notice the lights because if you're noticing the lights, you're not
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focused in the moment. You are not in the moment. I guarantee if every single light went off
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with me and you, we'd keep going. I would hope. I would think that would be the case.
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Yeah. We'd keep going. We'd be like, let's go. Cause you know what? We've been in the dark.
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Well, I think what happens is, and this is only perpetuated through social media. You know,
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we can fool a lot of people into thinking we're greater than we are, is that much of our lives
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become performative, that it only counts if you're performing. No, man, it counts when you're
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sending an email out or you're dealing with a customer complaint or, you know, you don't have
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enough people signed up for your event or whatever. It counts. All of it counts. Everything counts.
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Everything, every detail matters. Every detail matters. The greatest competitors, the greatest winners
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that win over and over again, they pay attention to the details that nobody else would pay attention
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to. The smallest little things, because that one little thing that you're just going to be like,
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eh, maybe the most important thing to that one customer of yours. And if you let something slide,
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go ahead. Sorry. You let something slide in winning. All right. What happens is once people start to win,
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they get a little complacent. They're like, ah, you know, I'm not going to do this the same way. I'm not
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going to do this the same way, but when they lose, they don't let those people slide. Listen,
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if you don't accept it in losing, don't accept it in winning.
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Explain that a little bit. Walk, walk me through that. If you don't accept it in winning, you don't
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accept, or excuse me, losing, you don't accept it in winning.
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People will, people will like, you're not working hard enough. You're not showing up on time. Your
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numbers aren't, your numbers aren't good. So when you're not losing and you're not doing the work,
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your boss or your individual holds you more accountable. Like you need to do these things.
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Now you have an individual who starts to win and they may show up 10 minutes late, 15 minutes
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late, or they may not work as hard. You'd be like, oh, you know, that person's a winner. I'm going to
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let that person, I'm going to, I'm going to let them slide. I'm going to let them slide a little bit.
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No, if you don't accept it, the greatest teams, the greatest individuals, they hold everybody to
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the same standards. Michael Jordan held himself to the same standards, higher standards than he held
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every other player. He said it in the last dance. I never will ask you to do something I won't do
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myself. If I show up to practice every single day, I'm willing to play hurt. I'm willing to do this.
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I have to deal with these situations. I'm not asking you to do something that I wouldn't do.
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And people think because they're part of a winning team that others will carry, that others will carry
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the load for them. No, you, everyone has a load to carry. You may not be able to carry the same
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load, but you still have to carry, you still have to carry the load that you can maximally carry.
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And that's what, that's what I'm talking about. You don't accept it. You, whatever you don't accept
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when you're losing, now that you're winning, you got to, you got to hold yourself to those same
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standards. Yeah. So you're, you're saying holding yourself to the standard, whether you're winning or
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losing. Cause I, I know even I have fallen into the trap of complacency when things are going really
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well. I did this a lot in my financial planning practice years and years ago where I would get so
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many clients and I'd have income coming in. I was setting up new accounts and I'm like, ah, I don't
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need to, I don't need to prospect. I don't need to market. I've got income coming in. Things are going
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well. And I would close all these cases. And as they got closed, I started to realize, oh shit,
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I don't have any new money coming in. I don't have a new clients. And so I'd have to go bust my ass trying
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to get people to do business with me. And I called it the accordion effect that I had to deal with
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constantly as a young financial advisor. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, you, you all, and now that you've
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learned is like every guest that you have, every podcast you do, it's another level of winning for
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you. It's another, it's another chase. You know, it's the unforgiving chase. It's the unforgiving race
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that you're into greatness. Every podcast matters. Every interview matters. Every piece of content I
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put out matters. All right. It, you know why? Because it does matter. It does matter because,
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you know, people will know when you start to slip. They'll be like, you know what? Ryan's not paying
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as much attention to that detail anymore. All right. And then you'll know the best of the best.
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They don't even need to tell you. You'll know it yourself. I've never had to tell. Majority of the
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time when my clients mess up or something goes on, before I even tell them, they'll be like,
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I already know what you're going to say. I got it. I already know what you, I already know what
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you're going to say. All right. That's because they already know when they're not living up to
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their maximum standards. I think that's the greatest issue. Letting yourself down. A lot of
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us focus on what other, and you actually talked about this in the book about living for other
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people and perception of other people. And I think the greatest danger is letting yourself down. You
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know, I can let my kids down. I can let my wife down, but I don't have to live with their reaction
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to being let down, but I do have to live with my reaction or, or my response to not honoring my
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commitments. And that's a greater danger than letting commitments go to other people.
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Yes. But, and I say, out of everything you just said, the key word to me, as simple as it may sound
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is my, all right? Because you're living to your standards. You know exactly who you are. How many
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individuals in this life do you know that know exactly who they are? Are they living to their
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standards? Are they living to what they're going to be judged about? Are they living to what their
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accountability is? Or are they so busy trying to please everyone else that they don't even know who
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they are anymore? You can't, you can't, you can't recognize. They, they will, there'll be one
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interview. There'll be one way with you. Then there'll be another way with a different person and a
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different way. You know, when Ryan's in the room, we got to act, we got to act this way. And when
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somebody else is in the room, you got to act that way. I guarantee when Ryan walks in the room,
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no matter who's in the room, he's Ryan's there. Yeah. And you know, when I, when I, when I hear
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people say things like, oh, you're just like you are in, on the podcast. Good. That that's, that's
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right. That's, that's who I am. That's exactly who I want to be. You know, but you bring up an
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interesting point in the book. You talked about winning knows your secrets. And I think we're
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touching on something right now is you're talking about knowing yourself, knowing exactly who you
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are. Well, winning also knows what to exploit. They know where you're weak. They know where you're
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pathetic. They know where you're lazy and, and you're going to sabotage yourself because you know
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yourself so well, you're going to let it happen. Yes. You know, that's what I said. What does winning
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do? It takes a long walks in your head in the middle of the night and it brings everyone. You
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don't want to see everyone. You don't want to see it's, it's coming. It's going to say, Hey,
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we're going to, we're going to pay a visit. So if you got laziness, it's going to laziness is going to
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laziness is going to come pay, come pay your visit. If you have complacency, if there, whatever it is,
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it's going to come visit you because it knows all your secrets, all those scat. Listen, you know,
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every single skeleton, you know, every single monster that's under the bed, you know, winning
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knows every single insecurity. It knows every secret. It knows every insecurity about you.
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It does. All right. So if it knows your secrets,
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it's going to exploit them. It's going to exploit them. All right. So you better learn how to use
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them because it already know you better learn how to use them. Come with all of you, not just half of
00:23:07.020
you, not just some of you come with the good, the bad, the indifferent, the likable, the dislikable.
00:23:14.240
Everybody, like you said, they want honesty until you give them honesty.
00:23:22.480
Until you give them honesty. You know, there's supposed to be this adage where
00:23:25.940
the truth is supposed to lead to more success, more hard work, more dedication. Well, what does
00:23:33.100
the truth usually lead to? It leads to more emotions. And usually when a person gets more emotional,
00:23:39.240
the complete opposite happens, the complete opposite happens. That's why we always, I hate
00:23:45.800
when people say truthfully, you know, no, I want you to be true. I'm not having you sit here.
00:23:54.760
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, you know, well, to tell you the truth, what do you mean to tell me the truth?
00:24:00.120
Oh, here's another one. I guess. I don't need you to guess. I can guess on my own.
00:24:06.780
If I ask you a question, I need you to know. I need you to know. I don't need you. I can make my
00:24:14.960
Right. You know, the one that I hear a lot, and I think I said it earlier, I think.
00:24:20.220
I don't need to preface. I don't need to preface it. Obviously, you know, those are my thoughts or
00:24:27.680
whatever, but I don't need to preface it or hedge it or make it a little bit more comfortable for you
00:24:33.120
to hear. This is the reality. And I say that by default. I think a lot of the times we, I just
00:24:39.160
said it, we are conditioned to do that because we don't, or we're not supposed to hurt people.
00:24:46.560
We're not supposed to offend people. And some of the men that you've coached obviously weren't
00:24:52.520
concerned with that relative to their ability to win.
00:24:57.060
Listen, Ryan, you look at individuals in, forget about sports. Let's look in the business world.
00:25:02.820
All right. Let's look at the business world. All right. You think Elon Musk is worried about
00:25:11.680
offending people? I don't think so. No. Yeah. You don't, you know, I don't think so at all.
00:25:19.880
All right. You can go down, you can go down the list. You think Jeff Bezos is afraid of offending
00:25:27.060
people? Not, not, not at all. All right. You look at, you know, there's so many other, you could
00:25:36.760
take out so many names. You can go down the, down the history of people that have done success that
00:25:42.420
have done really, really life-changing stuff. And it doesn't have to be about money. It could be about
00:25:48.220
anything. All right. They're not worried about offending. They're not worried about offending
00:25:53.420
people. If you spend your whole life trying to make everybody happy, you make nobody happy.
00:26:00.440
Absolutely. Nobody, no matter what you do, you're not going to get a 100% positive response. You can
00:26:11.080
put the nicest thing on, you can put a picture of your cat on social media, and there's going to be
00:26:19.460
somebody that's going to come out and make a derogatory comment about you. That's just,
00:26:24.520
of course. So how do you, do you, well, let me ask it this way. Is this an inherent personality?
00:26:35.680
I've talked with, I think over 350 men now, highly, highly successful men. And I'm always curious if
00:26:44.140
this is a personality that are inherently born with, or this is something that they've developed
00:26:50.240
over time because the most successful men that I've had on the podcast are exactly what you're
00:26:56.620
saying. They don't care about offending people. They don't set out to offend people, but it isn't
00:27:01.580
an issue when they want to share their opinions or their thoughts or their ideas or their mission.
00:27:07.120
Is this inherent or is this learned? It's learned and I'll tell you why. All right. I'm going to give
00:27:14.100
you a great example. And it's funny when I talk to individuals here, I do a lot of listening.
00:27:18.800
Go back to your baseball story. All right. How you handle that situation and how mom made you handle
00:27:31.940
that situation brought something out of you that we all have. So everybody goes through something.
00:27:43.540
Everybody goes through a battle or a circumstance or a situation in their life. It could be early.
00:27:51.240
It could be late. How you handled that situation
00:27:55.120
determines whether you're going to be an individual that's going to be a victim for life,
00:28:03.580
or you're going to be that individual that says, watch me because winning never lies.
00:28:11.540
It never lies. It's stop. You got to stop faking who you are. So what happens is when that moment
00:28:18.860
happened to you, when your mom brought that moment out instantly, when you talk to your coach,
00:28:23.820
everything, what did you say? She said she was right. You said you were right.
00:28:27.560
You stop faking who you are. You can't fake success. And that's what individuals want to do
00:28:35.360
with the people that think it's inherited. It's inherited because they, they want to use that
00:28:40.820
excuse that says, Oh, that person, that person was born that way. Listen, when I was born, I don't
00:28:47.560
remember a doctor stamping on my ass saying, Hey, I'm going to be successful. And I'm going to be this
00:28:51.920
person. I'm going to be this, like that. He's not, he just said, Hey, Hey, you're here. Go figure it
00:28:58.400
out. Go figure it out. The world doesn't care. You know, the world and nobody else cares either.
00:29:05.920
I don't, I don't care. You don't care about me. I don't care about you. It's amoral. It's neutral.
00:29:13.560
Let's, let's look at this. All right. Hopefully this doesn't, doesn't happen to either one of us.
00:29:19.840
All right. Let's say our lives ended in a week.
00:29:27.400
All right. Your podcast, listen, well, what happened to Ryan? Oh, and that, and that, and so forth.
00:29:32.300
They moved on to somebody else. Within a few days, I've got three people that would care if I died.
00:29:36.760
There's well, I've got, I've got, okay, I've got four kids. So I've got five or six people that would
00:29:42.220
care outside of six people. Nobody in the world would blink if I died tomorrow. Exactly.
00:29:48.960
That's what, but that's what people, they're so, they're so enamored by what they think their
00:29:56.640
self-worth is and what people perceive them to be. They don't care. People don't care. They don't,
00:30:02.540
they move on. It's gone. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's on the next. Everyone should have that.
00:30:08.860
Everyone should have that attitude. And if you had that same attitude in life, where once you completed
00:30:15.100
something, Hey, this is done, let's move on to what's next. Let's move on to what's next. Let's
00:30:20.100
keep going for that next win. Let's keep going for that next win. Let's keep going for that next
00:30:24.720
challenge. Let's keep going for that next, uh, uncomfortable, uh, uncomfortable situation.
00:30:29.760
Let's keep going to what makes me, what makes me excited. Every time you go to that next,
00:30:35.340
that next thing. All right. You actually think more people care about you actually less people care
00:30:43.000
about you because there's more people that are envious of what you're doing and what you have
00:30:48.260
gone to. You said you left a successful career as a financial planner, as a financial money manager
00:30:55.100
and did something that millions of people want to do. Everyone said, I don't know how many people
00:31:04.260
talk about, I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast. Well, why don't
00:31:09.400
you do a podcast? No one's going to listen. Well, if you never put one out there, you're damn right.
00:31:13.500
No one's going to listen. Exactly right. You started this thing. Maybe, uh, maybe your wife listened
00:31:19.560
on the first, on the first show. My wife and my mom, my wife and my mom, those are the only two people
00:31:23.520
that listened. Yeah. All right. Now I'm pretty sure there's a few more people than just those two
00:31:30.180
that are listening to your show now. That's right. That's right. I'm actually, as I go back,
00:31:35.860
I'm thinking probably my wife didn't even listen. Now that I say that it was probably just my mom,
00:31:40.960
but you do it anyways, you know, you put it out there. I want to go back to something you said,
00:31:46.580
because you were talking about this ability to, to learn or develop this, this, this ability to,
00:31:51.760
to be a winner, to be a closer, as we've talked about in previous conversations and books.
00:31:57.500
It's very important that we find the right people in our corners as well. I talked about my mother.
00:32:03.780
She's obviously big one. You're talking about world-class athletes. These are the best of the
00:32:11.020
best. There's nobody better. And yet they realize the value of having strong advocates in their
00:32:20.000
corner. I can't tell you how often I hear from guys who think, or will say, no, nobody needs to
00:32:26.160
tell me how to be a man. I could just be that on my own. And it's comical. It's funny that somebody
00:32:33.060
would actually think if it wasn't so pathetic that it was that they could actually think that
00:32:37.740
they could get to where they want to go on their own. It's disturbing, man. Let me hit the, uh,
00:32:43.520
the pause button, the timeout button on the conversation with Tim and I real quick. Look,
00:32:47.760
no general would take his army into battle without a plan. No great coach would take his team into
00:32:54.160
a game without a strategy. And yet we often think that simply because we have the desire to win,
00:33:00.080
that desire alone is enough. And that will be successful. It isn't because without a plan,
00:33:06.420
you can't be successful. And even if it is for the rare exception that you can be successful,
00:33:12.360
it isn't able to be replicated. And that's what we want a system that you can plug into that you can
00:33:18.320
replicate proven results. And that's where a battle planning app comes in. When you download the order
00:33:25.420
of man battle planning app, you're going to have access to a system that we've refined over the
00:33:30.260
past six years, proven, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to work for thousands and thousands of men
00:33:37.120
who have utilized it. Now we've been talking about planning for six years. Uh, and now we have a
00:33:43.440
digital version that allows you to carry your own individual strategy, personalized goals and
00:33:49.700
objectives and a vision and tactics that you can employ in your pocket, in the palm of your hand.
00:33:55.940
So if you want to learn more about what we're offering, head to 12weekbattleplanner.com 12weekbattleplanner.com
00:34:01.940
to learn more and download the app today. Do that after the show at 12weekbattleplanner.com.
00:34:11.540
You need allies. We have too many friends. That's the problem. You know, I have this old thing to say
00:34:17.120
that's, Hey, listen, if your best friend is too friendly, they shouldn't be your best friend.
00:34:22.020
Your best friend should not be too friendly. Friends tell you what you want to hear.
00:34:30.000
Allies tell you what you need to hear. And sometimes allies, your best allies, aren't even your closest
00:34:36.680
friends. They're not even your close. They're not even you, but you have enough trust in them that
00:34:43.600
they're going to tell you exactly what you need to hear, why you're not performing at that level.
00:34:51.020
What, what's, what's missing, but people gravitate to the individuals
00:34:56.700
that tell you what you want, what you want to hear because it's soothing. It's comfortable. It's good.
00:35:08.340
is made for two things. All right. The brain is made to protect you
00:35:15.340
and to create comfort. That's what you can go into. Listen, you can talk to all the neuroscience
00:35:23.360
people out there and so forth. They'll get into all the things, but that's what the brain is built for.
00:35:27.760
All right. So what is what you just talked about describing seeking help and being open to listen
00:35:39.060
to those individuals? That's uncomfortable. It's a threat. It's uncomfortable. And that,
00:35:46.580
and people shut the uncomfort down immediately. They, but what you're doing is you're actually
00:35:52.220
giving them a skill on not only how to survive, which all the brain wants to do,
00:35:58.060
but you're giving them a skill set on how to thrive.
00:36:06.080
There's a whole bunch of people we know in this world that are just surviving,
00:36:10.040
that are just going through life. You know, they're just like, Hey, listen, it's the old thing.
00:36:21.400
Get married, buy a house, have a kids die. That's surviving for, and for, and for a lot of individuals,
00:36:32.460
that's not thriving to me because that majority of the population is doing that. What do you create
00:36:38.480
that's uncomfortable in there that allows you to thrive? And that's where individuals like yourself,
00:36:44.560
that come in and hold people accountable, that tell them the truth, that tell them there's another
00:36:48.680
level that they're not doing, that they're not doing enough. You know, it's like, you look at an
00:36:54.880
individual like Tom Brady, you know, I'm going back to the sports adage. You want, every year they ask
00:37:00.420
him, what's his favorite rate? He says, the next one, the next one, the next one. All right. What's your
00:37:08.340
best podcast? The next one. That's right. Yeah. It's the, it's the next one. People don't want to
00:37:15.460
look at people. Don't, you have to look inside yourself and you have to understand what's going
00:37:20.740
on inside of you. And sometimes you can't see it because you're not willing to go into a place that
00:37:28.420
somebody else has to take you. And those individuals that have the ability to hold someone accountable,
00:37:34.380
to help them, to keep them the truth, to keep them on the path they're supposed to be on. Those are
00:37:40.240
your allies. All right. They make situations uncomfortable for you. They make situations,
00:37:47.940
they make your brain think in a way that it's not meant to be. And people don't like that. They don't
00:37:55.380
like they want to, they'd rather settle for if, if you, if you fuck something up and somebody puts
00:38:03.740
their arms around you and say, it's going to be okay. Okay. Is that an answer? Yeah. That's not an
00:38:12.100
ally. It's going to be, how's it going to be okay? What did I do? What did I, how do I, how do I not do
00:38:21.220
this again? What I did, was it really fucked up or is it just my perception of it? Cause I know some
00:38:27.320
of the greatest people in the world. All right. You have to be a little off and crazy in order to
00:38:35.320
do something successful. You can't think like everybody else. What's the definition of crazy?
00:38:40.840
You have the ability to see and do things and win and other things that other people can't do,
00:38:49.060
that other people aren't willing to do. And you get labeled for that, for being different. You know,
00:38:55.320
in the book we talk about, listen, different scares people. It does scare people, different
00:39:04.060
scares. You know, it's funny. You'll see, you'll see an animal that, you know, maybe something's wrong
00:39:14.440
and you'll look at it and you'll be like, Oh, how cute it is and how this is. And you want to do,
00:39:18.140
but when you see an individual that's different, you're taught to stay away.
00:39:23.320
Yeah. You, you, you're taught, you're taught, you're taught, you know, don't, don't talk to
00:39:27.280
that into, we don't know what's, we don't know what that person is. We don't know what that person
00:39:30.560
is thinking. We don't know what that person is talking about. I guarantee you some of the best
00:39:34.800
conversations I have are by myself. And I answer myself and people look at me like, well,
00:39:43.720
you know, well, somebody the other day, Tim asked me, they said, who, who, who do you want to talk
00:39:48.680
to? Who do you want to have on the podcast? And who do you want to talk with? And I remember I
00:39:53.720
vividly, I told him, I want to talk with weirdos and assholes. That's all I want to talk with anymore
00:39:59.220
because everybody else is the same. They're all talking about the same stuff. They're all saying
00:40:03.900
the same things, using the same analogies, performing the same way. And I want to talk with
00:40:08.140
some strange and weird people and the real assholes of the world, because at least they
00:40:12.860
make things exciting and different. Yes. Ryan, take a look at it. Here's the thing. What do all
00:40:19.700
people say? The people always say the key to a successful relationship, the key to a successful
00:40:27.540
relationship, find somebody who's the opposite of you, find somebody who's the opposite of you
00:40:33.220
because they create balance in your world. I'm like, no, find somebody who's just as fucked up
00:40:40.100
as you are. That's because that person understands you. They understand why you smile. They understand
00:40:48.020
why you need time to yourself. They understand what's going on in your head. All right. They
00:40:53.500
understand. They're not going to judge you because you say, Hey, listen, today's going to be an 18 hour
00:40:59.240
workday. I get it. Go do, go do what you need to do. That's why I've had so much success with my
00:41:05.700
clients because I was just as messed up as they were. I understood. I understood why they did the
00:41:15.600
things they did. I didn't judge them. I thought this was a no, it was a no judgment zone. I did not
00:41:22.100
judge them. If they, if somebody did something, I said, interesting, or they would do something. I was
00:41:26.060
like, okay, how does that benefit the ultimate goal of winning? And people always say, don't do
00:41:30.960
this. Don't do that. What somebody else tells you don't to do might be that one thing that ignites
00:41:37.860
that fire. And those, like you said, the weirdos and assholes and all those people, who are the three
00:41:44.400
people that always tell you the truth? Kids, drunks, and old people.
00:41:55.900
Because they don't give a fuck. They don't care.
00:42:02.680
Like they've lost their social or either they've lost or they, they have not quite developed yet
00:42:08.640
Yes. Condition. That's a great word. That's a great word. Social conditioning. And that's,
00:42:14.880
that's what a lot of us go through in life where we're conditioned by somebody else's thoughts,
00:42:22.180
by somebody else's actions. You know, in the book I talk about, there's a huge difference
00:42:27.820
between what to think and how to think. There's a huge, huge difference between the two.
00:42:38.780
Remember when you grow up, when you're going through school, everything, everything is going
00:42:43.020
on. All right. Everything is what to think, what to think, what to think, what to think. This is
00:42:48.140
what the books say. This is what you need to do. This is what society tells you. This is how you
00:42:51.360
should act. This is, so it's here it is, here it is, here it is. What to think, what, you lose your
00:42:57.060
You lose that individuality that makes you special. And when you win, winning requires you
00:43:06.680
not only to know what to think, but how to think, because you decide to do a podcast your way.
00:43:16.360
Mm hmm. How many individuals told you said, Ryan, this is not going to work. This isn't for
00:43:21.680
everybody. You're too harsh. This is not going to happen. This is what's going to happen. That's
00:43:27.520
what to think. That's what to think. You went with how to think. And when you went how to
00:43:37.460
think, you saw what winning is about. When you, when people get too conditioned, it's all
00:43:46.380
about what, what, what, what. And we lose our ability on how, how to think for, how to think
00:43:53.080
for ourselves, how to do things, how to look at something and say, you know what? That doesn't
00:44:01.180
You know, when you talk about that chapter in your book and every chapter is great, there's
00:44:04.680
a couple that really stood out to me. The first one was about the fear, you know, people,
00:44:10.100
people are afraid of winning, but also we're, I think we're afraid of winning ourselves because
00:44:17.380
if I excel, in fact, here, I'll give you, I'll give you a little story here. When, when I,
00:44:22.360
when I went to basic training in 1999, I was fortunate enough to have a couple of men who
00:44:28.180
had been in the military for a while. And one of the things they told me when I went to basic
00:44:31.280
training is they said, don't stand out. Don't stand out. Just get, just get lost in basic
00:44:37.620
training. Don't make yourself known. Don't volunteer for things like just get, and you
00:44:41.480
made a, you made a facial expression. If you're not watching this, like what the hell are you
00:44:44.940
talking to? Which is exactly in line with what I thought you would do. But that was the advice
00:44:50.240
I was given. And I, I believe that in much of society, we, we've, we've adopted that
00:44:56.200
mentality. Don't stand out. Don't put yourself out there. Don't, because you're, you're going
00:45:02.640
to say you're better than other, other people, and they're going to feel bad and they're going
00:45:05.980
to be intimidated by you. And so in many ways, people are afraid of fear or excuse me, afraid
00:45:10.780
of success. But in many ways, I think we are afraid of our own success because of how it will
00:45:16.380
be perceived by others. Yes, we are. So listen, I tell you, this is a great point that you brought
00:45:23.700
up. I just said a lot of the reasons people aren't successful is exactly what you said.
00:45:30.740
They're afraid of success. We, I, it's funny. You go through life, you know, everybody wants
00:45:38.700
to fit in a certain group. We want to be part of a, you know, we, we, uh, when you grow up,
00:45:43.640
we have to hang around certain friends. We have to live in a certain, we have to live
00:45:47.300
in a certain neighborhood. You got to go to this high school. You got to be part of this
00:45:51.060
sorority. You got to be a part of this fraternity. We're so, we spend our whole lives, like you
00:45:55.800
said, conditioned to fit in yet the individuals we idolize the most are the ones that stand
00:46:01.420
out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I, we, we, we sit with them. They're the ones that, that you look at
00:46:06.960
those interviews like, wow, look what that person did. Yeah. And you spend so much time
00:46:13.700
worrying about fitting in, conditioning in, not standing out. You forget to live your life
00:46:18.320
and you end up living everybody else's. You end up, you end up living everybody else's
00:46:22.880
life. You end up clapping for everyone else and no one's clap, no one's, no one's ever clapped
00:46:27.980
for you, but that's your choice. That's a choice that you made because once you become successful,
00:46:34.440
once you become successful, all right, people always say that, you know, once you become
00:46:40.200
successful, all right, people change. You don't change. It's the individuals around you that
00:46:47.120
change. Success doesn't change you, all right? You're the same individual before you had this
00:46:53.340
podcast when you're not on this podcast, when you're on the podcast. You're the same
00:46:57.960
individual. The more success you have, it changes the people around you because they can't
00:47:04.540
understand. They're envious of what it, what you did to stand out, to get to that point,
00:47:11.140
to understand the language of winning. You know, everybody, when you talk about the language
00:47:16.860
of winning, it's not what everybody thinks of this. The language of winning is unpolished,
00:47:21.920
uncivilized. It's hard. It's nasty. It's intimidating, right? That's what it takes to be successful.
00:47:31.420
That's what it takes to, that's what it takes to win. People don't want to do those things anymore
00:47:36.980
because when you do those things, you stand out. You have to make decisions and people rather make
00:47:45.580
suggestions. People rather go through life making suggestions because when you make a suggestion,
00:47:50.960
you always have an out. Yes. Always have an out. When you make a decision, you have to answer the
00:47:59.700
hard questions. People don't want to answer the hard questions anymore. I like this concept too of
00:48:07.580
the language of winning. I think about terms like, you know, I'm not good enough. And I've said that to
00:48:15.320
myself when I see underperformance, whether it's on this podcast or any facet of my life that I've said
00:48:21.500
to myself, I didn't do that good enough. I wasn't strong enough, smart enough, fit enough, whatever.
00:48:27.580
And I will occasionally make a post about that. And people will say, oh, you know, take it easy on
00:48:31.720
yourself. And oh, you know, you're doing the best you can and whatever. No. Like that's what society
00:48:37.420
wants to say is that you're good just the way you are. You should feel special. Why should I feel
00:48:41.500
special or good about underperformance? Why should I embrace less than I'm capable of?
00:48:49.100
But that's what society wants you to do. Exactly. It allows you to fit in. It allows
00:48:54.280
you to fit in with all the other individuals that are underperforming. And there's more people that
00:48:58.800
are underperforming that are performing at a higher level. It's just are. And it's because
00:49:06.520
it's too hard. It's too difficult. You have to hold yourself to a standard that nobody else
00:49:14.740
is going to do. Everybody wants to win because they think it's about the glory and the payday.
00:49:21.980
Winning isn't about the glory and the payday. Winning is about the obstacles and challenges
00:49:26.300
and the pain that it takes to get there. That's why you enjoy winning so much. It's what you have to
00:49:34.340
do to get there. Winning itself at the end is everything. But to get to winning, do you have
00:49:45.700
everything it takes to get to everything? Are you willing to do everything? And people are not
00:49:51.600
willing to do everything. It's exactly what you just said. Don't be so hard on yourself. Take it easy.
00:49:57.600
Tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow doesn't give a shit about you. It doesn't give a shit about me.
00:50:07.360
Yesterday is not coming to pat you on the back. It's gone. Tomorrow is going to show up regardless.
00:50:17.960
Yeah. Regardless of whether you and I show up or not. Tomorrow is still showing up.
00:50:22.420
At midnight, tomorrow is here. We don't know if we are. And even there's a lot of times when we are
00:50:31.720
here, we're not present. And that's what underperforming is. That's what underperforming
00:50:38.100
allows you to do. You're like, ah, there'll be another day. I'll do it the next time. And then
00:50:44.880
you have more stuff to deal with. You have more stuff to deal with. You have more stuff to deal
00:50:48.580
with. Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Your mind has to be stronger than
00:50:55.320
your feelings. And too often, when we underperform, our feelings are stronger than our minds.
00:51:06.400
One of the conversations I've had quite often with my wife is about, I don't know if these
00:51:12.680
are the terms you would use, but if I'll ever be satisfied and she's asked me, will it ever
00:51:18.760
be enough? Will you ever be satisfied? When will you be satisfied? That's the term she uses.
00:51:24.720
The answer is always never. It'll never be enough. And I've told her that there will never be
00:51:31.460
enough. There will never be a guest I've had on my podcast where I think to myself, oh, yeah,
00:51:37.100
I've arrived. I'm good. Done. Or amount of income or athletic achievement. Do you feel
00:51:44.080
that there's ever a detriment to this way of thinking?
00:51:48.640
Oh, and I'll tell you why. And we talk about this in winning too, but I know you probably
00:51:54.760
came across it. Nobody else can create balance for you. All right. So what their definition
00:52:05.060
of satisfaction and balance to you is not your definition of balance. It's not your definition
00:52:10.920
of satisfaction. Plus, here's the one thing. You're not a satisfied person because satisfied
00:52:20.280
is, it's the middle of the road. You know what I mean? So satisfied is just like, satisfied
00:52:31.080
Pretty well. You're not, you're not interested in good. You're not, you're not interested. You're
00:52:35.220
not interested in good. If you were interested in good, you'd have stayed in the job you,
00:52:41.800
Yeah. That's because you were like, Hey, listen, I can literally do this blindfolded. I know what it
00:52:46.000
is. I know what I have to do. I put in a couple hours of work. I move these money from here to there.
00:52:50.360
I'm good. That's not your, that's not your mindset. All right.
00:52:56.560
Winning demands obsession. All right. And if it doesn't, it's going to find someone else to
00:53:08.260
consume. So the minute you get satisfied, the minute you get satisfied, winning is moving to
00:53:16.800
somebody else. They're going to find somebody else to be obsessed with or find someone else to
00:53:20.640
be consumed with. All right. That's the thing. You, you don't find balance. You create it.
00:53:27.360
And your definition of balance is different than every body else's. Think about this. All right.
00:53:36.320
People always talk about what you did to get here.
00:53:41.280
All right. No one wants to talk about the things you didn't do.
00:53:47.400
All right. No one wants to talk about the things you didn't do to put yourself in the place
00:53:54.500
that you're at. Everybody knows what you did to get there. You know, Hey, I had to put, I had to
00:53:59.840
put in the hours. I did this. I had to go get the guests. I had to invest. I had to do this,
00:54:04.260
but no one says, you know what? I didn't sleep eight hours a day for two years.
00:54:12.660
I didn't get a chance to go hang out with my friends. You know? Yeah. I miss my best friend's
00:54:17.500
wedding or whatever, man. You know what? I didn't get a chance to take that family vacation. It's the
00:54:25.200
things that you didn't do that created your balance and created where you are today. It's not all about
00:54:34.000
the increase. Everybody talks about to get more successful, you need to continue to add more,
00:54:40.060
add more, add more. Well, if you just keep adding more, you're going to have a bunch of things
00:54:44.180
that you don't need in order to be where you want to be and continue to move forward. It's not about
00:54:53.840
the daily increase. It's about what you can let go. It's what you can, what you don't need,
00:55:00.000
the individuals you don't need, the habits you don't need, the different addictions,
00:55:06.200
whatever it may be. And it's so hard for us to let go, but you create more balance in your life
00:55:12.560
by letting go of the unessentials. And then once you let go of the unessentials,
00:55:18.460
you can stay in the level you want to stay at for so much longer. That allows you to stay
00:55:24.560
in the unforgiving race to winning so much longer because every time you pick up an essential,
00:55:31.780
you're letting go of numerous unessentials. As you become more successful, your circle changes.
00:55:39.000
It actually becomes smaller. You've seen it in professional athletes. When they become successful,
00:55:45.180
how big their circle gets and then they end up having financial issues or they end up getting in
00:55:49.860
trouble or end up selling some, your greatest athletes, as they become more successful,
00:55:54.660
their circles have actually gotten smaller. They've actually got tighter. The individuals
00:55:58.740
that were in their circle before that couldn't keep up are no longer in that circle. They had to make
00:56:04.540
those hard decisions. That's their balance. That sacrifice is so crucial. So I don't know if you
00:56:11.360
know this, Tim, but my wife and I and our four kids moved here to Maine two years ago.
00:56:15.400
Hmm. And we left our home and we left a business and we sold a bunch of personal stuff to get out
00:56:21.660
here to make this work. And I've had so many people say, you know, Ryan, I wish I could do that. That's
00:56:26.760
always something we wanted to do. It's like, but we have this, we have a job, we have friends, we have
00:56:30.980
this, we have that. Yeah. I had that same stuff too. Of course, everybody has the same stuff. And I
00:56:36.720
remember one particular instance, I had sold my financial planning practice previously and I was
00:56:43.620
working, I was, uh, he was buying that business out through, through a schedule over a period of
00:56:49.900
years. And I said, Hey, you know what? I need you to just buy this completely out. I need you to pay
00:56:54.600
me a lump sum and buy this thing completely out as we made our move. And he said, well, I can do that.
00:56:59.480
But if I'm going to do that, it needs to be at a discounted rate. Sure. Which is fair. It's a
00:57:03.900
reasonable request. And I was very hesitant to do it, but then I realized, no, I want to make this
00:57:09.860
work. So I sold my business at a discounted rate to get the full buyout to make this work. I sold a
00:57:15.520
bunch of personal belongings. We left the family that my wife had there, fourth generation born and
00:57:20.560
raised. Uh, we left the home that we had just bought, which was her grandparents' home that we were
00:57:25.880
married at. Her parents were married at her brother-in-law was married at her grandfather,
00:57:29.460
built with his own two hands. We left that. And everybody else likes to say, well, I wish I could
00:57:34.280
do it, but we had that same stuff. Everybody has that same stuff. What do you have to sacrifice to
00:57:39.840
make your dreams come true? Winning wants all of you, not some of you. It wants all of you.
00:57:51.160
It wants to know you are fully committed. It wants to know you are all in.
00:57:59.460
You know, I got this adage in the book says, winning keeps its hands in its pocket. You know
00:58:05.720
why it keeps its hands in its pockets? Because it doesn't want to point to anybody who's not
00:58:10.540
worthy. All right. If you would have only done part, if you would have said, let me do this in
00:58:16.800
stages. Winning would have said, he's not all in. Yeah. And I'm going to find somebody,
00:58:23.540
I'm going to find somebody else who is. It's going to find somebody else who is. People always say
00:58:31.340
this. You know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Let me tell you something. Winning is not a marathon.
00:58:39.860
It's a sprint with no finish line. And not many of us have the luxury of taking time. We just don't.
00:58:48.140
We don't. Listen, you ever watch marathon runners? They are sprinting. They are literally sprinting.
00:58:56.120
They may not be sprinting like 100 meters. All right. But in your life, in your life,
00:59:03.660
it is a marathon. But there's a lot of sprints in those marathons. And those sprints make you
00:59:08.940
uncomfortable. All right. You could have chose to say, you know what? Yeah, it's a marathon. It's a
00:59:15.740
marathon. I'll buy this out in stages. All right. But you were like, I don't know where the finish
00:59:22.780
line is. But I better sprint to that finish line. Because if I don't sprint to it, somebody else
00:59:29.240
might. I might be doing this podcast with somebody else. Right. You 100% would. Not even might,
00:59:35.800
you 100% would. There's one other chapter, Tim, that I really enjoyed. The chapter I really liked
00:59:43.680
is that winning belongs to them, but it's your job to take it. I didn't have-
00:59:50.240
How can I guess on that one that you'd like that one?
00:59:52.640
I love it. I didn't have a bunch of great male role models in my life when I was younger.
00:59:57.640
And one of my stepfathers was one of those individuals who had a lot of mental baggage that
01:00:04.640
he tried to unload on my mother and my sister and myself. But there's one thing I remember that he
01:00:11.400
said he was coaching me with football and I really enjoyed football. And he said, you know, Ryan, I
01:00:15.360
was playing line. Actually, no, I was on the line and I told him I wanted to play linebacker. And so I
01:00:20.000
eventually worked my way to play linebacker for the high school team. And he said to me, and I'll never
01:00:24.620
forget it. He said, Ryan, when that ball goes up in the air, just because you're on defense doesn't
01:00:30.020
mean that ball. You don't have every right to that ball. When that ball goes up in the air,
01:00:35.780
it's your ball. It's your right to catch that ball just as much as it is anybody else on that field.
01:00:42.020
And I will never forget that because I see people all the time who think that when it's time for them,
01:00:48.840
it will present it rather than going and getting their ass after the ball and making it happen.
01:00:54.780
It's your job to take it. It is your job to take it. Listen,
01:01:00.880
when he has no loyalty to you, competition doesn't have any loyalty to you. It takes one
01:01:07.820
instant to go from a champion to a loser. We've seen it in so many times. I don't know if you're
01:01:15.940
a basketball fan, but there's an old commercial with Charles Barkley when he was playing in the day
01:01:21.140
who obviously you would like because he says whatever's on his mind, agree with him or not.
01:01:26.520
He says, what made him such a great rebounder? He goes, well, you have two options. He goes,
01:01:33.040
you can either go look at it or you can go get it. He goes, that's it. That's all.
01:01:39.680
That's it. He goes, that's what makes me a great, that's what makes me a great rebounder.
01:01:43.140
Everybody else is looking at it. I've decided to go get it. All right. So winning belongs to them.
01:01:50.040
Winning always belongs to somebody else. When you came and you went into this business,
01:01:55.420
winning belonged to other individuals that you were competing against for their airtime,
01:02:01.280
for their listeners and so forth. No one was going to say, oh, you know what,
01:02:06.960
Ryan, we're just going to hand you these lists. No, you got to go take it. You have to go take it.
01:02:13.460
And people are afraid to go take things because of what it takes to take things. You got to compete.
01:02:23.380
You got to compete. You got to put yourself out there. All right. And you can't, you can't,
01:02:29.360
it's just not about the grind. It's about grinding for results. If people are talking about, man,
01:02:34.840
I'm in the grind, but yeah, but what are you grinding for? What is the results that you're
01:02:39.100
grinding for? Because if you're just grinding and you continue to grind, what's going to be left?
01:02:44.300
Dust. What's going to be left? Dust. When you grind for something, this goes back to the balance thing.
01:02:55.100
to form something that you want to form. You know, when you, when people do ice sculptures,
01:03:01.360
it's a block of ice. They don't add more ice to it to create stuff. They chip away at it.
01:03:08.600
They take away, they take, they take things away. So winning, if you want to create that beautiful
01:03:15.780
sculpture of yourself, or you want to create what winning looks like to you, think about that ice
01:03:21.580
block. All right. There's stuff that's being taken away from that ice block. That's the same thing.
01:03:27.120
You got to go take things away from yourself. You got to go take things from somebody else
01:03:37.760
Agreed. Well said. And love it. I'd relish in it. I love it. I love to compete. I love to see where
01:03:45.260
we've come. I love to see where you've come. Like these guys who are successful, I'm inspired by it. I
01:03:50.460
think, man, here's the thing that I like the best. This is a fascinating process. I think you'd appreciate
01:03:56.160
this. How do you take somebody who's never heard of you before? Never, never listened to you. Never
01:04:02.940
heard of you. Never cared about anything that you ever thought about to, they listened to your podcast
01:04:09.040
to, they wear your logo on their chest or their head on a hat to, they come to your events to hear
01:04:18.840
you speak. Man, that's such an intriguing process and how you can capture that and develop that and
01:04:27.560
build that. And then these men become advocates and they believe in what you're doing and they share
01:04:32.200
your message and they start to live it themselves. It's just a fascinating process to me. I love it.
01:04:38.340
It's a huge, it's, it's a fascinating process. It's something that's, you've developed over time
01:04:45.520
that you stuck with it. You know what you believed in and to take those individuals,
01:04:53.000
you know, I'm sure at some point they may have been following somebody else or they were wearing
01:04:57.120
somebody else's logo. And you were like, you know what? That person's all that. I'm just going to leave
01:05:02.040
them alone. You're like, no, no, this is what I have. This is what you get when you join, when you
01:05:07.960
listen to what I have to, what I have to say. And you get a few people that come in, let me turn on
01:05:12.620
this. Wow. I really like what, I really like what he's saying. And they listen a little more,
01:05:16.600
they listen a little more. You know, it's funny when Relentless first came out, it was everybody's
01:05:21.120
dirty little secret. It was like, you know, everybody would pass it on underneath, underneath.
01:05:26.900
You need to read, you need to read this book. You know, you need to kind of hear this.
01:05:31.160
And this book is the same way. It's just, the truth is supposed to be out there, yet the truth
01:05:40.460
ends up being everyone's dirty little secret because they don't want to hear it. They don't
01:05:47.000
want to hear it. Well, and I appreciate the work that you're doing. It's so valuable. And that's why
01:05:54.240
this copy is so important to me. And of course, Relentless as well, because we need the truth.
01:06:00.480
And that's why I appreciate guys like you. You know, I know Michael Jordan used to introduce you
01:06:05.540
as the biggest asshole you'll ever meet. I imagine you probably took that as a compliment. You said,
01:06:10.740
damn right I am. And I'm also telling you the truth. And you're also winning in part because of me.
01:06:17.080
And here's the thing. I would have not been around that long if I was like everybody else,
01:06:23.320
because everybody else was telling them how great he was, what he needed. And I would be like,
01:06:27.500
no, this is, this is what we need to do. This is, this is where the accountability is. This is where
01:06:32.140
it is. If you want to be the best ever, here it is. All right. And you earn respect from that
01:06:40.000
individual. You know, everyone talks about, listen, you have to respect me. Well, you got to give me
01:06:45.220
something to respect. You got to give me something to respect. If you give me something to respect,
01:06:50.220
I will respect you. So I was giving him something to respect. This is what you, this is what you have
01:06:56.020
to do. This is what, this is how it has to be done. This is when you're wrong. This is what,
01:07:01.560
this is when you're right. And I've done that with every single one of my clients, every single
01:07:08.240
one of them. Winning does not make excuses. It does not make excuses. It's not going to make excuses
01:07:16.780
for you. It's not going to make excuses against you. It is a test with no correct answers. And
01:07:26.120
everybody is always looking for the correct answer. There is no correct. And there is no correct answer
01:07:32.440
on how to do a successful podcast. It's the answers that work for you because the answers that work for
01:07:39.900
somebody else are not going to be a successful podcast for you. And how many times are we taking
01:07:47.560
tests in life and we're letting somebody else give us the answers. And the, usually the answers they
01:07:53.780
give you are the wrong answers. Right. A hundred percent. Well, I hope this book, I know this book will
01:08:00.840
become one that isn't handed under the table. Cause I got it. I got to tell you it's uncomfortable,
01:08:07.740
you know, just, just plainly speaking, you, you read this stuff and you think that's
01:08:12.840
uncomfortable. I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to talk about that. I don't want to
01:08:16.340
look at that for myself, but it's also refreshing. You know, it's a breath of fresh air because you
01:08:23.920
look at it and you think, okay, somebody finally said exactly what I needed to hear to get my ass off
01:08:30.740
the couch or to get that business started or whatever your goal or ambition is.
01:08:37.060
Listen, Ryan, winning is everything. Do you know what I love about what you do?
01:08:43.820
Do everything, experience it, do everything. And just like what you said, I left this, this,
01:08:51.120
this, and this, and people are like, well, I have this and that. Well, I did it. This is what I want
01:08:56.020
experience. Do everything, do everything. That's what winning is about. Winning is everything. It'll
01:09:05.420
make you feel a certain way. Just think about it. How do you feel when you win? It's an unbelievable
01:09:11.760
feeling. How do you feel when your kids win? It's an unbelievable feeling. How do you feel when you
01:09:18.420
have an individuals or individuals in your podcasts and they listen to you and they follow you and they
01:09:24.640
win? You have an unbelievable feeling. When your family wins, when everybody wins, you can have that
01:09:31.480
feeling all the time. You can literally have that feeling all the time. But in order to have that
01:09:39.320
feeling all the time, you got to go through this. You got to go through it. People want to have that
01:09:46.760
feeling without going through this thing. That's the fire. That's too painful for a lot of people,
01:09:53.220
but the people who can endure it always come out ahead. Right. I always say, listen,
01:09:58.020
this book ain't for everyone, but it should be. It should be. It's just what you said. It's going
01:10:06.920
to make, it's going to, it's going to make you uncomfortable. Listen, I could have poured the
01:10:10.560
sprinkles on it and I could have put frosting and icing on it and told all these things and
01:10:15.260
everybody would have been all, this is a great, uh, be in all the book clubs and talk about all this
01:10:19.980
stuff here. Then what's going to happen once you put the book down, you're going to go back to being
01:10:25.100
who you decide everything. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. All right. When you hear the
01:10:32.260
truth, when you hear the harsh reality, when somebody is not afraid to talk about it and not
01:10:38.480
only talk about it, they live it, they understand it. They see other individuals that get it.
01:10:49.580
They know what the true definition of winning is because they've been in that race.
01:10:54.340
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, Tim, I appreciate you. I appreciate a lot you done. I've, I've admired you
01:11:00.040
for a long time and your message, and I'm really looking forward to getting this book and your message
01:11:03.960
into the hands and minds of the guys who tune in because they're going to be served by what you're
01:11:08.160
doing. So I appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for getting this information out
01:11:12.940
there. It is much needed in this society. I think now more than ever. All right. Thank you so much.
01:11:16.960
I can't believe we've been on this for over an hour. Look how quickly that goes quick, goes fast,
01:11:20.720
man. When we're having a good conversation with good people, it goes fast. It goes fast. All right,
01:11:25.420
my friend, thank you so much. And if there's anything we can do for you, please reach out.
01:11:29.680
Thank you, brother. Will do. Take care. My best to you and your family. Always.
01:11:33.240
Likewise. Gentlemen, there you go. Mr. Tim Grover. I know you guys are familiar with him.
01:11:39.780
A lot of you guys have read relentless. In fact, I think in the past I've included relentless on my
01:11:45.720
top 10 list of books that every man needs to read, but I would also include winning. And if you haven't
01:11:50.560
yet picked up a copy of winning, please do so because it's going to help you improve your life.
01:11:55.880
It's a pull no punches instruction manual for winning in life. And it is the antithesis of what
01:12:05.260
society, this, this comfortable coddled sissy nanny society would have you, uh, behave,
01:12:13.740
believe, and act. It's, it's different. It's unique. It's better. It works. And to the degree that
01:12:20.280
I've implemented Tim strategies in my life, my life has got infinitely better. It's not for the
01:12:25.720
faint of heart. It's not for the easily offended, but it is for those who want to thrive, who want
01:12:30.700
to win, who want to succeed and want to help other people do it. Tim's done it. He's sharing with you
01:12:35.980
how to do it. So connect with him on Instagram at Tim Grover, connect with me on Instagram at Ryan
01:12:42.160
Mickler, take a screenshot guys. Look, we have an obligation. I mean, really it is an obligation. If
01:12:47.820
we have a tool at our disposal, that's going to help us improve our lives. And it's going to help
01:12:52.560
other people improve their lives. Then we have an obligation to share it. And right now you're
01:12:57.360
listening to something that hopefully serves you and is going to help you in your life. And if there's
01:13:03.240
somebody that's important to you, another man who needs to hear this message, then just take a
01:13:07.240
screenshot or copy the link and send it over your brother or your colleague, your friend, your
01:13:12.380
coworker, your boss, your cousin, your dad, whoever needs to hear the message of reclaiming
01:13:19.140
and restoring masculinity. Please do that. That's how we grow this mission. That's how we grow this
01:13:23.780
movement. That's how we've grown to 35 million downloads. Like I said earlier, and that's how we
01:13:28.380
get the word out about what we're doing, what Tim is doing, what Tim Kennedy and Jocko Willink and
01:13:34.080
Andy Frisilla and David Goggins and Chad Wright and John Eldridge and Madison Cawthorn. And all of
01:13:40.560
the incredible guests that I've had on the podcast, we, we let people know what they're doing by sharing
01:13:46.620
this. So connect with us, take the screenshots, share the links, do all the things. This is your
01:13:52.440
way to contribute and help. And even say, thank you. If you've gotten any value from this guys,
01:13:57.500
we're going to be back on, I think we'll be back tomorrow. Yes. Tomorrow for our ask me anything.
01:14:01.960
And then of course we'll be back for our Friday field notes on Friday and another incredible,
01:14:08.340
incredible guest. Uh, next week, a musician, I'll leave it there. A musician is going to be joining
01:14:15.460
us. So make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review, and we'll see you next week until then
01:14:19.420
guys go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the
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order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to
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be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.