Order of Man - TIM GROVER ｜ Winning Requires ALL of You

00:00:00.000 What does it mean to win in life? And more importantly, what does it actually take to do so?

00:00:05.020 These are questions my guest today, Tim Grover has been exploring and frankly, succeeding with

00:00:09.700 for decades as coach to both Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, among so many other incredible

00:00:15.420 athletes and performers today, Tim and I explore how to differentiate between allies and friends.

00:00:20.820 And there is a very, very important distinction, taking what you want out of life, the sprint

00:00:26.900 versus marathon method of winning and why winning requires all of you.

00:00:32.580 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:37.340 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are

00:00:43.020 not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:50.360 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call

00:00:55.700 yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I am the host and the

00:01:01.560 founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. And I've got a special guest for you today as I do

00:01:06.020 every week. But Tim Grover is on another level. Guys, this guy is incredibly, incredibly successful.

00:01:14.380 And not only that, he's helped so many high performers become incredibly successful in their

00:01:20.740 own right. And I think there's something special about that. So we're going to get into it in just a

00:01:25.160 minute. If you're new, just joining us. And there's a lot of you. I was looking at the download

00:01:29.460 numbers in the past couple of days and guys, we are over 35 million podcast downloads. Listen to that

00:01:38.080 35 million podcast downloads. I can't tell you thank you enough. I can't tell you how honored and humbled

00:01:45.600 I am that you would tune in, that you would listen to me and of course my guests and that you would

00:01:51.180 take the information. This is the most important thing that you'd take the information. You would

00:01:55.600 apply it in your life. You would become a more capable man. You would serve your family, serve

00:02:00.300 your community, serve your businesses, serve your community. I think I already said that twice now.

00:02:05.060 I guess that just goes to show how important it is in serving your community and that you would do

00:02:09.540 it successfully and you would do it with honor and class and dignity and capability. And that's what

00:02:15.280 this podcast is all about. It's about giving you men, the tools you need to thrive as men in a society

00:02:22.920 that doesn't want you to be men. We are the antithesis of that. We are the premier resource

00:02:30.200 for helping you step into the man that you're capable of becoming and the man that people need you to be.

00:02:36.620 So glad you're tuning in now, without further ado, I'm going to get to my guest today. He is the one

00:02:44.200 and only Tim Grover. He's coached to two of the greatest basketball players to ever walk the face

00:02:50.540 of the earth. Mr. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and of course, hundreds of others of NBA players, MLB

00:02:56.800 players, NFL players, athletes. And it's not meant to discount them, of course, because the lineup of men

00:03:04.860 that he's coached is incredible, but he's also the bestselling author of relentless. Uh, and I'm sure

00:03:10.440 we're going to be able to say that about his newest book winning. Uh, in addition to that, he is the CEO

00:03:15.660 of attack athletics and has frankly dedicated his entire life to teaching the science and art of

00:03:21.820 physical and mental dominance. You're going to hear about that in the podcast and ultimately achieving

00:03:26.680 excellence. Tim, what's up, man? Great to see you. I'm glad to have you on the podcast today.

00:03:32.360 Ryan, that's awesome, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I'm honored to be a

00:03:37.780 part of this podcast. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You bet. I read your book relentless. And of course,

00:03:42.320 I've got an early copy, which I don't know if I was supposed to, but I made a post of this on

00:03:46.740 Instagram and I can't tell you how many guys are like, what the hell? How'd you get a copy? So

00:03:50.680 I feel pretty privileged to not only get a copy, but to be able to have a conversation with you.

00:03:55.820 Yeah. Hey, that's awesome, man. Listen, there's a reason you could tell them why you got,

00:04:00.860 you got it. They didn't get it. So let them to level up to you.

00:04:05.380 That's, you know, I appreciate you saying that because one thing that I really, really admire

00:04:09.480 and appreciate about you is you are not one of these politically correct guys who says all the

00:04:14.860 quote unquote, right things, trying to make people feel good about themselves. You speak the truth,

00:04:20.260 you share the harsh realities. And I think that's what it takes to win and thrive.

00:04:24.120 Well, I'll go with one step farther, Ryan. You said what it takes, what you think it takes to win.

00:04:30.060 I would take the think part out of that. That's what it does take to win. It does. You know,

00:04:35.840 we all, everybody wants to fluff. Everybody wants to, everybody wants to sugar. Everybody wants all

00:04:42.920 that stuff. They want that instant gratification to feel good. You know, it's funny, Ryan, we talk

00:04:47.520 about this all the time. And I know you, uh, you agree with this is everybody's looking for motivation.

00:04:54.320 And to me, motivation is entry level. It's like,

00:04:58.720 do you really, at what point don't you need someone else to constantly motivate you, tell you

00:05:05.500 what's going on? So you can go there to listen to them for them to keep you on track, but it's got

00:05:11.620 to come with inside. It's got to, something's got to burn inside of you to be like, Hey,

00:05:15.940 this is on me. Everything that's happened. Everything that's going on is because of the

00:05:21.760 decisions I made or the decisions I didn't make is why I'm in my, I'm in the circumstances I'm in

00:05:29.620 instead of looking around and blaming this person and this person and that person. And that's what

00:05:34.080 motivation does. Motivation is like, everybody's looking for that external thing. Well, what is it

00:05:39.860 internally that lights your fire? What is internally that keeps you accountable for where you are in

00:05:48.480 your life? You know, it's funny because occasionally I'll get people who are not, not occasionally quite

00:05:53.980 often. Actually people ask me what, what keeps you motivated? What keeps you inspired? It's actually

00:05:58.380 very hard for me to compute that question because I can't, I can't quite understand not wanting to be

00:06:05.080 as good as you possibly can be and why people struggle so hard with that. Like I don't, I don't

00:06:11.960 struggle to get out of bed. I don't struggle to get on this podcast. I don't struggle to be engaged

00:06:17.640 with my family. That isn't something I need to be motivated about. I'm excited about it. I want to

00:06:22.100 do as good as I possibly can. Motivation doesn't seem to be an issue. It's unbelievable. So it's funny.

00:06:28.040 We're going to have a great time. We're going to have a great time here. You know, in the book winning,

00:06:31.740 I talk about everyone's, here's a, here's something, here's a cliche you hear all the

00:06:36.120 time. All right. Showing up is half the battle. No, showing up is none of the battles. It's none

00:06:44.140 of the battles. I'm like, you know, people want a victory for something they're supposed to do.

00:06:50.720 All right. Like I'm supposed to show up on your pie. Oh, you know, Hey, you know, you're supposed to

00:06:56.640 be excited to get out of bed every day. You're fortunate enough to have that day because one

00:07:03.180 day we ain't going to have that day and it's not going to be our choice. It may not be our choice.

00:07:07.640 So be excited, be excited about that. Be excited about what you're, what, you know, doing what

00:07:13.340 you do. Be excited about being with your family. You know, just, just don't show up just to show up.

00:07:19.300 I hate that. You know, showing up is none of the battle. If showing up is half the battle,

00:07:27.240 then you are 100% a motivational individual because somebody else is forcing you to show up.

00:07:33.880 Like, man, I got to show up for this. I'm like, listen, when they told me you wanted to do this

00:07:38.980 pie, I was like, this is awesome. I said, let's get, let's get this in.

00:07:42.360 Yeah. It is funny when you hear that, when, when people say, like you said, motivation is,

00:07:48.700 or, or showing up is half the battle. Like showing up is the ticket to entry. Congratulations. You're

00:07:53.340 there. Like anybody can show up. That doesn't mean you did anything special. It means you showed up

00:07:58.560 now. What? Yeah, exactly. Now what, now what, but that's the thing people want, they, they think

00:08:07.120 showing up is the now what they're like, I'm here. I did, I did what I was, I did what I was supposed

00:08:13.420 to do. You know, how many people do you know that just show up, but aren't really there because they're

00:08:20.300 waiting for somebody else to tell them what to think, how to act, how to be, uh, what to say.

00:08:26.860 Yeah. I think that's pretty indicative of culture and society today. Uh, I remember when, look, I'll be

00:08:33.340 frank here. And I think being truthful is the most important thing. When I was a, when I was a kid

00:08:37.320 in high school, I wasn't the best athlete. I was slightly better than average. I can admit that.

00:08:42.500 And I remember my coach cut me from, or excuse me, he didn't cut me. He pulled me from my starting

00:08:48.400 position as catcher on the baseball team. And I was pretty upset about that because I was a senior.

00:08:54.340 I felt like I was entitled. It was my right to be the starting catcher. And I remember talking with

00:08:59.760 my mother and my mom said, I don't know why he did it. Why don't you go talk to him?

00:09:03.340 And the best thing about my mother is that she never enabled me. She never said, yeah,

00:09:07.100 your coach is a jerk, or he doesn't appreciate you, or he doesn't like you. She said, I don't 1.00

00:09:10.760 know. I'll go talk to him and figure it out. So I went and talked to my coach and he laid down some

00:09:15.720 cold, hard truth. And the best thing my mother did for me as a young man is she agreed with him.

00:09:22.600 I didn't want her to, I wanted her to fight with him, but she agreed with him. And she said, yep,

00:09:27.500 that's exactly right. You need to work harder. You need to train harder. You need to do better.

00:09:30.980 And I don't think a lot of young men in society are getting that today, unfortunately.

00:09:36.280 No, they're not because it's like, it's everybody else's fault. There's no accountability. There's

00:09:41.040 no accountability there. Here's what happens. All right. Everybody wants to rest in the middle.

00:09:50.740 Rest at the end. Rest at the end. You know, people think that they've accomplished a little

00:09:58.880 something, you know, okay, you made the baseball team. This was your senior year. So if you take

00:10:05.500 that statement, rest at the end and not at the middle, you, you said it yourself. I was entitled.

00:10:14.180 I said, my senior year. So what did you do? You rested in the middle. And your mom was like,

00:10:18.980 no, no, no, that's not happening. Too many times we let people rest when they shouldn't be resting.

00:10:24.620 We let them sit. We don't let them finish the job. The job is not finished. My definition of finished

00:10:32.880 and other people's definition of finished is, is completely different. Most people's definition

00:10:39.620 of finish is I'm done with it. My definition of finish is done. What's next.

00:10:49.280 Yeah. That's interesting because I know in the conversations I have, and I imagine we are very

00:10:54.640 similar. I know the men that you have coached in your life are very similar. It's hard for me to

00:11:00.580 celebrate any sort of perceived victory. You know, I might smile for a minute and be glad that that

00:11:06.820 happened, but okay. Well, that was, that was earlier today. That was an hour ago. Like you said,

00:11:14.020 what's next. You're always chasing that wind. You're always chasing that next wind. That's why

00:11:22.180 you're excited about life. That's why you're excited about what's going on because you're not afraid of

00:11:28.120 the challenges. You are going after that next challenge. You're going after the next win. You're

00:11:34.820 going after that next uncomfortable situation. We want to wake up. We want to wake up and we expect

00:11:43.140 the next day or this day only to wear a halo. I mean, I'm looking at this selfie light that I got.

00:11:49.840 It's a nice little circle. It's got a nice little circle thing. That's brought up that that's shining

00:11:54.520 in my face right now. But as I say in winning, we don't know what day and what winning, how it's

00:12:04.660 going to show up. It may show up with a halo. It may show up with fangs. It may show up with fangs

00:12:10.400 in an hour and then a halo in 30 minutes and then go back and forth. You got to be, you got to be

00:12:15.160 excited for both. You got to be ready to be able to deal with both. You have to have individuals that

00:12:20.680 hold you accountable. Like you said, your mom said the coach, the coach is right. Because if

00:12:25.040 everybody's always telling you that you're right and they're not right, you're never going to know

00:12:30.980 how to deal with the fangs. And there's more fangs in this world than there are halos. 1.00

00:12:36.100 Do you, so the best competitors in the world, we take guys like Kobe Bryant and we take guys like

00:12:40.520 Michael Jordan and other men that you have coached. Do these guys, when, when they see the fangs,

00:12:46.400 does that turn them on? Is that what drives them? Do they step up to that? Do they enjoy it? Do they

00:12:51.900 like it better than the halos? Yes, they do. Yes, they do. But see, here's the thing.

00:12:58.160 Their switch is never turned off. You know, most people, when the halo comes on, they, they, you know,

00:13:03.380 you hear this adage too about, oh, you know, uh, there, I know how to turn on the switch. The greatest

00:13:10.360 competitors, that switch never turns off. It takes too much energy to start that, to light that switch

00:13:17.400 back up. If you were to cut out all the power in your house, in your studio, everything, all right.

00:13:23.720 And you waited 30 seconds, you turned it back on. It wouldn't pop right back on. It would take a

00:13:29.060 little while for everything that, for everything to happen. Now, if you were just to dim the switch and

00:13:33.500 you had control over how bright you wanted it to go. And then when you needed to turn it all the way

00:13:39.220 on, it would go on just like, it would go on just like that. So that's the difference. So what they

00:13:44.520 do is a lot of individuals, when they get in that comfort zone and they see the halo, they turn the

00:13:50.000 switch off. Those individuals, they always keep their hand on the switch and they're like, eh, you

00:13:55.500 know what? I don't know what's going to happen. When the fangs come out, they turn that thing all the

00:14:01.060 way up and they have total control over that switch. When you said earlier about you're excited

00:14:10.200 about all these different things, a lot of individuals that do what you do or try to do

00:14:17.500 what you do, they may not be excited about everything else, but they get excited about hosting their

00:14:25.780 podcast. Let's say they host a podcast. So what happens is they like to perform under the bright

00:14:32.260 lights. Michael Jordan, Kobe, the greatest individuals, you know, in sports and business

00:14:40.040 or everything, they don't even notice the lights because if you're noticing the lights, you're not

00:14:44.660 focused in the moment. You are not in the moment. I guarantee if every single light went off

00:14:52.100 with me and you, we'd keep going. I would hope. I would think that would be the case.

00:15:00.360 Yeah. We'd keep going. We'd be like, let's go. Cause you know what? We've been in the dark.

00:15:05.040 Well, I think what happens is, and this is only perpetuated through social media. You know,

00:15:10.380 we can fool a lot of people into thinking we're greater than we are, is that much of our lives

00:15:14.280 become performative, that it only counts if you're performing. No, man, it counts when you're

00:15:19.080 sending an email out or you're dealing with a customer complaint or, you know, you don't have

00:15:24.140 enough people signed up for your event or whatever. It counts. All of it counts. Everything counts.

00:15:30.660 Everything, every detail matters. Every detail matters. The greatest competitors, the greatest winners

00:15:39.500 that win over and over again, they pay attention to the details that nobody else would pay attention

00:15:48.720 to. The smallest little things, because that one little thing that you're just going to be like,

00:15:55.240 eh, maybe the most important thing to that one customer of yours. And if you let something slide,

00:16:02.780 go ahead. Sorry. You let something slide in winning. All right. What happens is once people start to win,

00:16:10.960 they get a little complacent. They're like, ah, you know, I'm not going to do this the same way. I'm not

00:16:15.160 going to do this the same way, but when they lose, they don't let those people slide. Listen,

00:16:20.100 if you don't accept it in losing, don't accept it in winning.

00:16:25.020 Explain that a little bit. Walk, walk me through that. If you don't accept it in winning, you don't

00:16:28.900 accept, or excuse me, losing, you don't accept it in winning.

00:16:30.700 People will, people will like, you're not working hard enough. You're not showing up on time. Your

00:16:35.540 numbers aren't, your numbers aren't good. So when you're not losing and you're not doing the work,

00:16:39.780 your boss or your individual holds you more accountable. Like you need to do these things.

00:16:44.400 Now you have an individual who starts to win and they may show up 10 minutes late, 15 minutes

00:16:51.840 late, or they may not work as hard. You'd be like, oh, you know, that person's a winner. I'm going to

00:16:55.700 let that person, I'm going to, I'm going to let them slide. I'm going to let them slide a little bit.

00:16:59.000 No, if you don't accept it, the greatest teams, the greatest individuals, they hold everybody to

00:17:05.420 the same standards. Michael Jordan held himself to the same standards, higher standards than he held

00:17:12.980 every other player. He said it in the last dance. I never will ask you to do something I won't do

00:17:18.760 myself. If I show up to practice every single day, I'm willing to play hurt. I'm willing to do this.

00:17:24.500 I have to deal with these situations. I'm not asking you to do something that I wouldn't do.

00:17:31.080 And people think because they're part of a winning team that others will carry, that others will carry

00:17:37.580 the load for them. No, you, everyone has a load to carry. You may not be able to carry the same

00:17:42.260 load, but you still have to carry, you still have to carry the load that you can maximally carry.

00:17:49.300 And that's what, that's what I'm talking about. You don't accept it. You, whatever you don't accept

00:17:54.780 when you're losing, now that you're winning, you got to, you got to hold yourself to those same

00:17:59.580 standards. Yeah. So you're, you're saying holding yourself to the standard, whether you're winning or

00:18:05.080 losing. Cause I, I know even I have fallen into the trap of complacency when things are going really

00:18:09.720 well. I did this a lot in my financial planning practice years and years ago where I would get so

00:18:14.660 many clients and I'd have income coming in. I was setting up new accounts and I'm like, ah, I don't

00:18:19.320 need to, I don't need to prospect. I don't need to market. I've got income coming in. Things are going

00:18:24.520 well. And I would close all these cases. And as they got closed, I started to realize, oh shit,

00:18:30.440 I don't have any new money coming in. I don't have a new clients. And so I'd have to go bust my ass trying 0.98

00:18:34.760 to get people to do business with me. And I called it the accordion effect that I had to deal with 0.99

00:18:39.580 constantly as a young financial advisor. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, you, you all, and now that you've

00:18:46.540 learned is like every guest that you have, every podcast you do, it's another level of winning for

00:18:54.780 you. It's another, it's another chase. You know, it's the unforgiving chase. It's the unforgiving race

00:19:01.680 that you're into greatness. Every podcast matters. Every interview matters. Every piece of content I

00:19:09.420 put out matters. All right. It, you know why? Because it does matter. It does matter because,

00:19:16.440 you know, people will know when you start to slip. They'll be like, you know what? Ryan's not paying

00:19:21.500 as much attention to that detail anymore. All right. And then you'll know the best of the best.

00:19:31.240 They don't even need to tell you. You'll know it yourself. I've never had to tell. Majority of the

00:19:37.080 time when my clients mess up or something goes on, before I even tell them, they'll be like,

00:19:41.760 I already know what you're going to say. I got it. I already know what you, I already know what

00:19:46.160 you're going to say. All right. That's because they already know when they're not living up to

00:19:51.600 their maximum standards. I think that's the greatest issue. Letting yourself down. A lot of

00:19:58.400 us focus on what other, and you actually talked about this in the book about living for other

00:20:04.520 people and perception of other people. And I think the greatest danger is letting yourself down. You

00:20:09.720 know, I can let my kids down. I can let my wife down, but I don't have to live with their reaction

00:20:14.460 to being let down, but I do have to live with my reaction or, or my response to not honoring my

00:20:22.000 commitments. And that's a greater danger than letting commitments go to other people.

00:20:26.820 Yes. But, and I say, out of everything you just said, the key word to me, as simple as it may sound

00:20:33.600 is my, all right? Because you're living to your standards. You know exactly who you are. How many

00:20:42.420 individuals in this life do you know that know exactly who they are? Are they living to their

00:20:49.380 standards? Are they living to what they're going to be judged about? Are they living to what their

00:20:54.700 accountability is? Or are they so busy trying to please everyone else that they don't even know who

00:21:00.120 they are anymore? You can't, you can't, you can't recognize. They, they will, there'll be one

00:21:05.820 interview. There'll be one way with you. Then there'll be another way with a different person and a

00:21:09.840 different way. You know, when Ryan's in the room, we got to act, we got to act this way. And when

00:21:14.380 somebody else is in the room, you got to act that way. I guarantee when Ryan walks in the room,

00:21:18.700 no matter who's in the room, he's Ryan's there. Yeah. And you know, when I, when I, when I hear

00:21:24.880 people say things like, oh, you're just like you are in, on the podcast. Good. That that's, that's

00:21:30.420 right. That's, that's who I am. That's exactly who I want to be. You know, but you bring up an

00:21:35.380 interesting point in the book. You talked about winning knows your secrets. And I think we're

00:21:40.540 touching on something right now is you're talking about knowing yourself, knowing exactly who you

00:21:45.440 are. Well, winning also knows what to exploit. They know where you're weak. They know where you're

00:21:51.340 pathetic. They know where you're lazy and, and you're going to sabotage yourself because you know 1.00

00:21:57.620 yourself so well, you're going to let it happen. Yes. You know, that's what I said. What does winning

00:22:03.360 do? It takes a long walks in your head in the middle of the night and it brings everyone. You

00:22:10.240 don't want to see everyone. You don't want to see it's, it's coming. It's going to say, Hey,

00:22:15.780 we're going to, we're going to pay a visit. So if you got laziness, it's going to laziness is going to

00:22:21.800 laziness is going to come pay, come pay your visit. If you have complacency, if there, whatever it is,

00:22:28.100 it's going to come visit you because it knows all your secrets, all those scat. Listen, you know, 1.00

00:22:35.660 every single skeleton, you know, every single monster that's under the bed, you know, winning

00:22:40.180 knows every single insecurity. It knows every secret. It knows every insecurity about you.

00:22:46.720 It does. All right. So if it knows your secrets,

00:22:51.600 it's going to exploit them. It's going to exploit them. All right. So you better learn how to use

00:23:00.200 them because it already know you better learn how to use them. Come with all of you, not just half of

00:23:07.020 you, not just some of you come with the good, the bad, the indifferent, the likable, the dislikable.

00:23:14.240 Everybody, like you said, they want honesty until you give them honesty.

00:23:20.080 Yeah. Yeah. It sounds really good.

00:23:22.480 Until you give them honesty. You know, there's supposed to be this adage where

00:23:25.940 the truth is supposed to lead to more success, more hard work, more dedication. Well, what does

00:23:33.100 the truth usually lead to? It leads to more emotions. And usually when a person gets more emotional,

00:23:39.240 the complete opposite happens, the complete opposite happens. That's why we always, I hate

00:23:45.800 when people say truthfully, you know, no, I want you to be true. I'm not having you sit here.

00:23:52.900 Or what were you lying before?

00:23:54.760 Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, you know, well, to tell you the truth, what do you mean to tell me the truth?

00:24:00.120 Oh, here's another one. I guess. I don't need you to guess. I can guess on my own.

00:24:06.780 If I ask you a question, I need you to know. I need you to know. I don't need you. I can make my

00:24:12.340 own guesses.

00:24:14.960 Right. You know, the one that I hear a lot, and I think I said it earlier, I think.

00:24:20.220 I don't need to preface. I don't need to preface it. Obviously, you know, those are my thoughts or

00:24:27.680 whatever, but I don't need to preface it or hedge it or make it a little bit more comfortable for you

00:24:33.120 to hear. This is the reality. And I say that by default. I think a lot of the times we, I just

00:24:39.160 said it, we are conditioned to do that because we don't, or we're not supposed to hurt people.

00:24:46.560 We're not supposed to offend people. And some of the men that you've coached obviously weren't

00:24:52.520 concerned with that relative to their ability to win.

00:24:57.060 Listen, Ryan, you look at individuals in, forget about sports. Let's look in the business world.

00:25:02.820 All right. Let's look at the business world. All right. You think Elon Musk is worried about

00:25:11.680 offending people? I don't think so. No. Yeah. You don't, you know, I don't think so at all.

00:25:19.880 All right. You can go down, you can go down the list. You think Jeff Bezos is afraid of offending

00:25:27.060 people? Not, not, not at all. All right. You look at, you know, there's so many other, you could

00:25:36.760 take out so many names. You can go down the, down the history of people that have done success that

00:25:42.420 have done really, really life-changing stuff. And it doesn't have to be about money. It could be about

00:25:48.220 anything. All right. They're not worried about offending. They're not worried about offending

00:25:53.420 people. If you spend your whole life trying to make everybody happy, you make nobody happy.

00:26:00.440 Absolutely. Nobody, no matter what you do, you're not going to get a 100% positive response. You can

00:26:11.080 put the nicest thing on, you can put a picture of your cat on social media, and there's going to be

00:26:19.460 somebody that's going to come out and make a derogatory comment about you. That's just,

00:26:24.520 of course. So how do you, do you, well, let me ask it this way. Is this an inherent personality?

00:26:35.680 I've talked with, I think over 350 men now, highly, highly successful men. And I'm always curious if

00:26:44.140 this is a personality that are inherently born with, or this is something that they've developed

00:26:50.240 over time because the most successful men that I've had on the podcast are exactly what you're

00:26:56.620 saying. They don't care about offending people. They don't set out to offend people, but it isn't

00:27:01.580 an issue when they want to share their opinions or their thoughts or their ideas or their mission.

00:27:07.120 Is this inherent or is this learned? It's learned and I'll tell you why. All right. I'm going to give

00:27:14.100 you a great example. And it's funny when I talk to individuals here, I do a lot of listening.

00:27:18.800 Go back to your baseball story. All right. How you handle that situation and how mom made you handle

00:27:31.940 that situation brought something out of you that we all have. So everybody goes through something.

00:27:43.540 Everybody goes through a battle or a circumstance or a situation in their life. It could be early.

00:27:51.240 It could be late. How you handled that situation

00:27:55.120 determines whether you're going to be an individual that's going to be a victim for life,

00:28:03.580 or you're going to be that individual that says, watch me because winning never lies.

00:28:11.540 It never lies. It's stop. You got to stop faking who you are. So what happens is when that moment

00:28:18.860 happened to you, when your mom brought that moment out instantly, when you talk to your coach,

00:28:23.820 everything, what did you say? She said she was right. You said you were right.

00:28:27.560 You stop faking who you are. You can't fake success. And that's what individuals want to do

00:28:35.360 with the people that think it's inherited. It's inherited because they, they want to use that

00:28:40.820 excuse that says, Oh, that person, that person was born that way. Listen, when I was born, I don't

00:28:47.560 remember a doctor stamping on my ass saying, Hey, I'm going to be successful. And I'm going to be this 0.99

00:28:51.920 person. I'm going to be this, like that. He's not, he just said, Hey, Hey, you're here. Go figure it

00:28:58.400 out. Go figure it out. The world doesn't care. You know, the world and nobody else cares either.

00:29:05.920 I don't, I don't care. You don't care about me. I don't care about you. It's amoral. It's neutral.

00:29:13.560 Let's, let's look at this. All right. Hopefully this doesn't, doesn't happen to either one of us.

00:29:19.840 All right. Let's say our lives ended in a week.

00:29:27.400 All right. Your podcast, listen, well, what happened to Ryan? Oh, and that, and that, and so forth.

00:29:32.300 They moved on to somebody else. Within a few days, I've got three people that would care if I died.

00:29:36.760 There's well, I've got, I've got, okay, I've got four kids. So I've got five or six people that would

00:29:42.220 care outside of six people. Nobody in the world would blink if I died tomorrow. Exactly.

00:29:48.960 That's what, but that's what people, they're so, they're so enamored by what they think their

00:29:56.640 self-worth is and what people perceive them to be. They don't care. People don't care. They don't,

00:30:02.540 they move on. It's gone. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's on the next. Everyone should have that.

00:30:08.860 Everyone should have that attitude. And if you had that same attitude in life, where once you completed

00:30:15.100 something, Hey, this is done, let's move on to what's next. Let's move on to what's next. Let's

00:30:20.100 keep going for that next win. Let's keep going for that next win. Let's keep going for that next

00:30:24.720 challenge. Let's keep going for that next, uh, uncomfortable, uh, uncomfortable situation.

00:30:29.760 Let's keep going to what makes me, what makes me excited. Every time you go to that next,

00:30:35.340 that next thing. All right. You actually think more people care about you actually less people care

00:30:43.000 about you because there's more people that are envious of what you're doing and what you have

00:30:48.260 gone to. You said you left a successful career as a financial planner, as a financial money manager

00:30:55.100 and did something that millions of people want to do. Everyone said, I don't know how many people

00:31:04.260 talk about, I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast. I want to do a podcast. Well, why don't

00:31:09.400 you do a podcast? No one's going to listen. Well, if you never put one out there, you're damn right.

00:31:13.500 No one's going to listen. Exactly right. You started this thing. Maybe, uh, maybe your wife listened

00:31:19.560 on the first, on the first show. My wife and my mom, my wife and my mom, those are the only two people

00:31:23.520 that listened. Yeah. All right. Now I'm pretty sure there's a few more people than just those two

00:31:30.180 that are listening to your show now. That's right. That's right. I'm actually, as I go back,

00:31:35.860 I'm thinking probably my wife didn't even listen. Now that I say that it was probably just my mom,

00:31:40.960 but you do it anyways, you know, you put it out there. I want to go back to something you said,

00:31:46.580 because you were talking about this ability to, to learn or develop this, this, this ability to,

00:31:51.760 to be a winner, to be a closer, as we've talked about in previous conversations and books.

00:31:57.500 It's very important that we find the right people in our corners as well. I talked about my mother.

00:32:03.780 She's obviously big one. You're talking about world-class athletes. These are the best of the 0.99

00:32:11.020 best. There's nobody better. And yet they realize the value of having strong advocates in their

00:32:20.000 corner. I can't tell you how often I hear from guys who think, or will say, no, nobody needs to

00:32:26.160 tell me how to be a man. I could just be that on my own. And it's comical. It's funny that somebody

00:32:33.060 would actually think if it wasn't so pathetic that it was that they could actually think that 0.94

00:32:37.740 they could get to where they want to go on their own. It's disturbing, man. Let me hit the, uh, 0.98

00:32:43.520 the pause button, the timeout button on the conversation with Tim and I real quick. Look,

00:32:47.760 no general would take his army into battle without a plan. No great coach would take his team into

00:32:54.160 a game without a strategy. And yet we often think that simply because we have the desire to win,

00:33:00.080 that desire alone is enough. And that will be successful. It isn't because without a plan,

00:33:06.420 you can't be successful. And even if it is for the rare exception that you can be successful,

00:33:12.360 it isn't able to be replicated. And that's what we want a system that you can plug into that you can

00:33:18.320 replicate proven results. And that's where a battle planning app comes in. When you download the order

00:33:25.420 of man battle planning app, you're going to have access to a system that we've refined over the

00:33:30.260 past six years, proven, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to work for thousands and thousands of men

00:33:37.120 who have utilized it. Now we've been talking about planning for six years. Uh, and now we have a

00:33:43.440 digital version that allows you to carry your own individual strategy, personalized goals and

00:33:49.700 objectives and a vision and tactics that you can employ in your pocket, in the palm of your hand.

00:33:55.940 So if you want to learn more about what we're offering, head to 12weekbattleplanner.com 12weekbattleplanner.com

00:34:01.940 to learn more and download the app today. Do that after the show at 12weekbattleplanner.com.

00:34:08.360 For now, let's get back to it with Tim.

00:34:11.540 You need allies. We have too many friends. That's the problem. You know, I have this old thing to say

00:34:17.120 that's, Hey, listen, if your best friend is too friendly, they shouldn't be your best friend.

00:34:22.020 Your best friend should not be too friendly. Friends tell you what you want to hear.

00:34:30.000 Allies tell you what you need to hear. And sometimes allies, your best allies, aren't even your closest

00:34:36.680 friends. They're not even your close. They're not even you, but you have enough trust in them that

00:34:43.600 they're going to tell you exactly what you need to hear, why you're not performing at that level.

00:34:51.020 What, what's, what's missing, but people gravitate to the individuals

00:34:56.700 that tell you what you want, what you want to hear because it's soothing. It's comfortable. It's good.

00:35:04.680 It's, it's relaxing. The brain

00:35:08.340 is made for two things. All right. The brain is made to protect you

00:35:15.340 and to create comfort. That's what you can go into. Listen, you can talk to all the neuroscience

00:35:23.360 people out there and so forth. They'll get into all the things, but that's what the brain is built for.

00:35:27.760 All right. So what is what you just talked about describing seeking help and being open to listen

00:35:39.060 to those individuals? That's uncomfortable. It's a threat. It's uncomfortable. And that,

00:35:46.580 and people shut the uncomfort down immediately. They, but what you're doing is you're actually

00:35:52.220 giving them a skill on not only how to survive, which all the brain wants to do,

00:35:58.060 but you're giving them a skill set on how to thrive.

00:36:06.080 There's a whole bunch of people we know in this world that are just surviving,

00:36:10.040 that are just going through life. You know, they're just like, Hey, listen, it's the old thing.

00:36:14.620 Okay. Go to school.

00:36:21.400 Get married, buy a house, have a kids die. That's surviving for, and for, and for a lot of individuals,

00:36:32.460 that's not thriving to me because that majority of the population is doing that. What do you create

00:36:38.480 that's uncomfortable in there that allows you to thrive? And that's where individuals like yourself,

00:36:44.560 that come in and hold people accountable, that tell them the truth, that tell them there's another

00:36:48.680 level that they're not doing, that they're not doing enough. You know, it's like, you look at an

00:36:54.880 individual like Tom Brady, you know, I'm going back to the sports adage. You want, every year they ask

00:37:00.420 him, what's his favorite rate? He says, the next one, the next one, the next one. All right. What's your

00:37:08.340 best podcast? The next one. That's right. Yeah. It's the, it's the next one. People don't want to

00:37:15.460 look at people. Don't, you have to look inside yourself and you have to understand what's going

00:37:20.740 on inside of you. And sometimes you can't see it because you're not willing to go into a place that

00:37:28.420 somebody else has to take you. And those individuals that have the ability to hold someone accountable,

00:37:34.380 to help them, to keep them the truth, to keep them on the path they're supposed to be on. Those are

00:37:40.240 your allies. All right. They make situations uncomfortable for you. They make situations,

00:37:47.940 they make your brain think in a way that it's not meant to be. And people don't like that. They don't

00:37:55.380 like they want to, they'd rather settle for if, if you, if you fuck something up and somebody puts 0.99

00:38:03.740 their arms around you and say, it's going to be okay. Okay. Is that an answer? Yeah. That's not an 0.99

00:38:12.100 ally. It's going to be, how's it going to be okay? What did I do? What did I, how do I, how do I not do

00:38:21.220 this again? What I did, was it really fucked up or is it just my perception of it? Cause I know some 0.99

00:38:27.320 of the greatest people in the world. All right. You have to be a little off and crazy in order to

00:38:35.320 do something successful. You can't think like everybody else. What's the definition of crazy? 0.95

00:38:40.840 You have the ability to see and do things and win and other things that other people can't do,

00:38:49.060 that other people aren't willing to do. And you get labeled for that, for being different. You know,

00:38:55.320 in the book we talk about, listen, different scares people. It does scare people, different

00:39:04.060 scares. You know, it's funny. You'll see, you'll see an animal that, you know, maybe something's wrong

00:39:14.440 and you'll look at it and you'll be like, Oh, how cute it is and how this is. And you want to do,

00:39:18.140 but when you see an individual that's different, you're taught to stay away.

00:39:23.320 Yeah. You, you, you're taught, you're taught, you're taught, you know, don't, don't talk to

00:39:27.280 that into, we don't know what's, we don't know what that person is. We don't know what that person

00:39:30.560 is thinking. We don't know what that person is talking about. I guarantee you some of the best

00:39:34.800 conversations I have are by myself. And I answer myself and people look at me like, well,

00:39:43.720 you know, well, somebody the other day, Tim asked me, they said, who, who, who do you want to talk

00:39:48.680 to? Who do you want to have on the podcast? And who do you want to talk with? And I remember I

00:39:53.720 vividly, I told him, I want to talk with weirdos and assholes. That's all I want to talk with anymore 1.00

00:39:59.220 because everybody else is the same. They're all talking about the same stuff. They're all saying

00:40:03.900 the same things, using the same analogies, performing the same way. And I want to talk with

00:40:08.140 some strange and weird people and the real assholes of the world, because at least they 0.99

00:40:12.860 make things exciting and different. Yes. Ryan, take a look at it. Here's the thing. What do all 0.99

00:40:19.700 people say? The people always say the key to a successful relationship, the key to a successful

00:40:27.540 relationship, find somebody who's the opposite of you, find somebody who's the opposite of you

00:40:33.220 because they create balance in your world. I'm like, no, find somebody who's just as fucked up 1.00

00:40:40.100 as you are. That's because that person understands you. They understand why you smile. They understand 1.00

00:40:48.020 why you need time to yourself. They understand what's going on in your head. All right. They

00:40:53.500 understand. They're not going to judge you because you say, Hey, listen, today's going to be an 18 hour

00:40:59.240 workday. I get it. Go do, go do what you need to do. That's why I've had so much success with my

00:41:05.700 clients because I was just as messed up as they were. I understood. I understood why they did the

00:41:15.600 things they did. I didn't judge them. I thought this was a no, it was a no judgment zone. I did not

00:41:22.100 judge them. If they, if somebody did something, I said, interesting, or they would do something. I was

00:41:26.060 like, okay, how does that benefit the ultimate goal of winning? And people always say, don't do

00:41:30.960 this. Don't do that. What somebody else tells you don't to do might be that one thing that ignites

00:41:37.860 that fire. And those, like you said, the weirdos and assholes and all those people, who are the three 0.99

00:41:44.400 people that always tell you the truth? Kids, drunks, and old people. 1.00

00:41:54.700 True. 1.00

00:41:55.900 Because they don't give a fuck. They don't care. 1.00

00:41:59.500 Well,

00:42:00.300 They don't know any better, right?

00:42:02.220 Yeah.

00:42:02.680 Like they've lost their social or either they've lost or they, they have not quite developed yet

00:42:07.240 their social conditioning.

00:42:08.640 Yes. Condition. That's a great word. That's a great word. Social conditioning. And that's,

00:42:14.880 that's what a lot of us go through in life where we're conditioned by somebody else's thoughts,

00:42:22.180 by somebody else's actions. You know, in the book I talk about, there's a huge difference

00:42:27.820 between what to think and how to think. There's a huge, huge difference between the two.

00:42:38.780 Remember when you grow up, when you're going through school, everything, everything is going

00:42:43.020 on. All right. Everything is what to think, what to think, what to think, what to think. This is

00:42:48.140 what the books say. This is what you need to do. This is what society tells you. This is how you

00:42:51.360 should act. This is, so it's here it is, here it is, here it is. What to think, what, you lose your

00:42:55.820 ability on how to think.

00:42:57.060 You lose that individuality that makes you special. And when you win, winning requires you

00:43:06.680 not only to know what to think, but how to think, because you decide to do a podcast your way.

00:43:16.360 Mm hmm. How many individuals told you said, Ryan, this is not going to work. This isn't for

00:43:21.680 everybody. You're too harsh. This is not going to happen. This is what's going to happen. That's

00:43:27.520 what to think. That's what to think. You went with how to think. And when you went how to

00:43:37.460 think, you saw what winning is about. When you, when people get too conditioned, it's all

00:43:46.380 about what, what, what, what. And we lose our ability on how, how to think for, how to think

00:43:53.080 for ourselves, how to do things, how to look at something and say, you know what? That doesn't

00:43:58.400 make sense.

00:44:01.180 You know, when you talk about that chapter in your book and every chapter is great, there's

00:44:04.680 a couple that really stood out to me. The first one was about the fear, you know, people,

00:44:10.100 people are afraid of winning, but also we're, I think we're afraid of winning ourselves because

00:44:17.380 if I excel, in fact, here, I'll give you, I'll give you a little story here. When, when I,

00:44:22.360 when I went to basic training in 1999, I was fortunate enough to have a couple of men who

00:44:28.180 had been in the military for a while. And one of the things they told me when I went to basic

00:44:31.280 training is they said, don't stand out. Don't stand out. Just get, just get lost in basic

00:44:37.620 training. Don't make yourself known. Don't volunteer for things like just get, and you

00:44:41.480 made a, you made a facial expression. If you're not watching this, like what the hell are you 0.52

00:44:44.940 talking to? Which is exactly in line with what I thought you would do. But that was the advice

00:44:50.240 I was given. And I, I believe that in much of society, we, we've, we've adopted that

00:44:56.200 mentality. Don't stand out. Don't put yourself out there. Don't, because you're, you're going

00:45:02.640 to say you're better than other, other people, and they're going to feel bad and they're going

00:45:05.980 to be intimidated by you. And so in many ways, people are afraid of fear or excuse me, afraid

00:45:10.780 of success. But in many ways, I think we are afraid of our own success because of how it will

00:45:16.380 be perceived by others. Yes, we are. So listen, I tell you, this is a great point that you brought

00:45:23.700 up. I just said a lot of the reasons people aren't successful is exactly what you said.

00:45:30.740 They're afraid of success. We, I, it's funny. You go through life, you know, everybody wants

00:45:38.700 to fit in a certain group. We want to be part of a, you know, we, we, uh, when you grow up,

00:45:43.640 we have to hang around certain friends. We have to live in a certain, we have to live

00:45:47.300 in a certain neighborhood. You got to go to this high school. You got to be part of this

00:45:51.060 sorority. You got to be a part of this fraternity. We're so, we spend our whole lives, like you

00:45:55.800 said, conditioned to fit in yet the individuals we idolize the most are the ones that stand

00:46:01.420 out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I, we, we, we sit with them. They're the ones that, that you look at

00:46:06.960 those interviews like, wow, look what that person did. Yeah. And you spend so much time

00:46:13.700 worrying about fitting in, conditioning in, not standing out. You forget to live your life

00:46:18.320 and you end up living everybody else's. You end up, you end up living everybody else's

00:46:22.880 life. You end up clapping for everyone else and no one's clap, no one's, no one's ever clapped

00:46:27.980 for you, but that's your choice. That's a choice that you made because once you become successful,

00:46:34.440 once you become successful, all right, people always say that, you know, once you become

00:46:40.200 successful, all right, people change. You don't change. It's the individuals around you that

00:46:47.120 change. Success doesn't change you, all right? You're the same individual before you had this

00:46:53.340 podcast when you're not on this podcast, when you're on the podcast. You're the same

00:46:57.960 individual. The more success you have, it changes the people around you because they can't

00:47:04.540 understand. They're envious of what it, what you did to stand out, to get to that point,

00:47:11.140 to understand the language of winning. You know, everybody, when you talk about the language

00:47:16.860 of winning, it's not what everybody thinks of this. The language of winning is unpolished,

00:47:21.920 uncivilized. It's hard. It's nasty. It's intimidating, right? That's what it takes to be successful.

00:47:31.420 That's what it takes to, that's what it takes to win. People don't want to do those things anymore

00:47:36.980 because when you do those things, you stand out. You have to make decisions and people rather make

00:47:45.580 suggestions. People rather go through life making suggestions because when you make a suggestion,

00:47:50.960 you always have an out. Yes. Always have an out. When you make a decision, you have to answer the

00:47:59.700 hard questions. People don't want to answer the hard questions anymore. I like this concept too of

00:48:07.580 the language of winning. I think about terms like, you know, I'm not good enough. And I've said that to

00:48:15.320 myself when I see underperformance, whether it's on this podcast or any facet of my life that I've said

00:48:21.500 to myself, I didn't do that good enough. I wasn't strong enough, smart enough, fit enough, whatever.

00:48:27.580 And I will occasionally make a post about that. And people will say, oh, you know, take it easy on

00:48:31.720 yourself. And oh, you know, you're doing the best you can and whatever. No. Like that's what society

00:48:37.420 wants to say is that you're good just the way you are. You should feel special. Why should I feel

00:48:41.500 special or good about underperformance? Why should I embrace less than I'm capable of?

00:48:49.100 But that's what society wants you to do. Exactly. It allows you to fit in. It allows

00:48:54.280 you to fit in with all the other individuals that are underperforming. And there's more people that

00:48:58.800 are underperforming that are performing at a higher level. It's just are. And it's because

00:49:06.520 it's too hard. It's too difficult. You have to hold yourself to a standard that nobody else

00:49:14.740 is going to do. Everybody wants to win because they think it's about the glory and the payday.

00:49:21.980 Winning isn't about the glory and the payday. Winning is about the obstacles and challenges

00:49:26.300 and the pain that it takes to get there. That's why you enjoy winning so much. It's what you have to

00:49:34.340 do to get there. Winning itself at the end is everything. But to get to winning, do you have

00:49:45.700 everything it takes to get to everything? Are you willing to do everything? And people are not

00:49:51.600 willing to do everything. It's exactly what you just said. Don't be so hard on yourself. Take it easy.

00:49:57.600 Tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow doesn't give a shit about you. It doesn't give a shit about me. 0.99

00:50:07.360 Yesterday is not coming to pat you on the back. It's gone. Tomorrow is going to show up regardless. 0.98

00:50:16.320 Or maybe not.

00:50:17.960 Yeah. Regardless of whether you and I show up or not. Tomorrow is still showing up.

00:50:22.420 At midnight, tomorrow is here. We don't know if we are. And even there's a lot of times when we are

00:50:31.720 here, we're not present. And that's what underperforming is. That's what underperforming

00:50:38.100 allows you to do. You're like, ah, there'll be another day. I'll do it the next time. And then

00:50:44.880 you have more stuff to deal with. You have more stuff to deal with. You have more stuff to deal

00:50:48.580 with. Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Your mind has to be stronger than

00:50:55.320 your feelings. And too often, when we underperform, our feelings are stronger than our minds.

00:51:03.920 We let it take over.

00:51:05.460 Yes.

00:51:06.400 One of the conversations I've had quite often with my wife is about, I don't know if these

00:51:12.680 are the terms you would use, but if I'll ever be satisfied and she's asked me, will it ever

00:51:18.760 be enough? Will you ever be satisfied? When will you be satisfied? That's the term she uses.

00:51:24.720 The answer is always never. It'll never be enough. And I've told her that there will never be

00:51:31.460 enough. There will never be a guest I've had on my podcast where I think to myself, oh, yeah,

00:51:37.100 I've arrived. I'm good. Done. Or amount of income or athletic achievement. Do you feel

00:51:44.080 that there's ever a detriment to this way of thinking?

00:51:48.640 Oh, and I'll tell you why. And we talk about this in winning too, but I know you probably

00:51:54.760 came across it. Nobody else can create balance for you. All right. So what their definition

00:52:05.060 of satisfaction and balance to you is not your definition of balance. It's not your definition

00:52:10.920 of satisfaction. Plus, here's the one thing. You're not a satisfied person because satisfied

00:52:20.280 is, it's the middle of the road. You know what I mean? So satisfied is just like, satisfied

00:52:27.100 for you is like, it's good.

00:52:29.380 Right. I'm not interested in that.

00:52:31.080 Pretty well. You're not, you're not interested in good. You're not, you're not interested. You're

00:52:35.220 not interested in good. If you were interested in good, you'd have stayed in the job you,

00:52:39.560 you had earlier.

00:52:40.820 Completely.

00:52:41.800 Yeah. That's because you were like, Hey, listen, I can literally do this blindfolded. I know what it

00:52:46.000 is. I know what I have to do. I put in a couple hours of work. I move these money from here to there.

00:52:50.360 I'm good. That's not your, that's not your mindset. All right.

00:52:56.560 Winning demands obsession. All right. And if it doesn't, it's going to find someone else to

00:53:08.260 consume. So the minute you get satisfied, the minute you get satisfied, winning is moving to

00:53:16.800 somebody else. They're going to find somebody else to be obsessed with or find someone else to

00:53:20.640 be consumed with. All right. That's the thing. You, you don't find balance. You create it.

00:53:27.360 And your definition of balance is different than every body else's. Think about this. All right.

00:53:36.320 People always talk about what you did to get here.

00:53:41.280 All right. No one wants to talk about the things you didn't do.

00:53:47.400 All right. No one wants to talk about the things you didn't do to put yourself in the place

00:53:54.500 that you're at. Everybody knows what you did to get there. You know, Hey, I had to put, I had to

00:53:59.840 put in the hours. I did this. I had to go get the guests. I had to invest. I had to do this,

00:54:04.260 but no one says, you know what? I didn't sleep eight hours a day for two years.

00:54:12.660 I didn't get a chance to go hang out with my friends. You know? Yeah. I miss my best friend's

00:54:17.500 wedding or whatever, man. You know what? I didn't get a chance to take that family vacation. It's the

00:54:25.200 things that you didn't do that created your balance and created where you are today. It's not all about

00:54:34.000 the increase. Everybody talks about to get more successful, you need to continue to add more,

00:54:40.060 add more, add more. Well, if you just keep adding more, you're going to have a bunch of things

00:54:44.180 that you don't need in order to be where you want to be and continue to move forward. It's not about

00:54:53.840 the daily increase. It's about what you can let go. It's what you can, what you don't need,

00:55:00.000 the individuals you don't need, the habits you don't need, the different addictions,

00:55:06.200 whatever it may be. And it's so hard for us to let go, but you create more balance in your life

00:55:12.560 by letting go of the unessentials. And then once you let go of the unessentials,

00:55:18.460 you can stay in the level you want to stay at for so much longer. That allows you to stay

00:55:24.560 in the unforgiving race to winning so much longer because every time you pick up an essential,

00:55:31.780 you're letting go of numerous unessentials. As you become more successful, your circle changes.

00:55:39.000 It actually becomes smaller. You've seen it in professional athletes. When they become successful,

00:55:45.180 how big their circle gets and then they end up having financial issues or they end up getting in

00:55:49.860 trouble or end up selling some, your greatest athletes, as they become more successful,

00:55:54.660 their circles have actually gotten smaller. They've actually got tighter. The individuals

00:55:58.740 that were in their circle before that couldn't keep up are no longer in that circle. They had to make

00:56:04.540 those hard decisions. That's their balance. That sacrifice is so crucial. So I don't know if you

00:56:11.360 know this, Tim, but my wife and I and our four kids moved here to Maine two years ago.

00:56:15.400 Hmm. And we left our home and we left a business and we sold a bunch of personal stuff to get out

00:56:21.660 here to make this work. And I've had so many people say, you know, Ryan, I wish I could do that. That's

00:56:26.760 always something we wanted to do. It's like, but we have this, we have a job, we have friends, we have

00:56:30.980 this, we have that. Yeah. I had that same stuff too. Of course, everybody has the same stuff. And I

00:56:36.720 remember one particular instance, I had sold my financial planning practice previously and I was

00:56:43.620 working, I was, uh, he was buying that business out through, through a schedule over a period of

00:56:49.900 years. And I said, Hey, you know what? I need you to just buy this completely out. I need you to pay

00:56:54.600 me a lump sum and buy this thing completely out as we made our move. And he said, well, I can do that.

00:56:59.480 But if I'm going to do that, it needs to be at a discounted rate. Sure. Which is fair. It's a

00:57:03.900 reasonable request. And I was very hesitant to do it, but then I realized, no, I want to make this

00:57:09.860 work. So I sold my business at a discounted rate to get the full buyout to make this work. I sold a

00:57:15.520 bunch of personal belongings. We left the family that my wife had there, fourth generation born and

00:57:20.560 raised. Uh, we left the home that we had just bought, which was her grandparents' home that we were

00:57:25.880 married at. Her parents were married at her brother-in-law was married at her grandfather,

00:57:29.460 built with his own two hands. We left that. And everybody else likes to say, well, I wish I could

00:57:34.280 do it, but we had that same stuff. Everybody has that same stuff. What do you have to sacrifice to

00:57:39.840 make your dreams come true? Winning wants all of you, not some of you. It wants all of you.

00:57:51.160 It wants to know you are fully committed. It wants to know you are all in.

00:57:59.460 You know, I got this adage in the book says, winning keeps its hands in its pocket. You know

00:58:05.720 why it keeps its hands in its pockets? Because it doesn't want to point to anybody who's not

00:58:10.540 worthy. All right. If you would have only done part, if you would have said, let me do this in

00:58:16.800 stages. Winning would have said, he's not all in. Yeah. And I'm going to find somebody,

00:58:23.540 I'm going to find somebody else who is. It's going to find somebody else who is. People always say

00:58:31.340 this. You know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Let me tell you something. Winning is not a marathon.

00:58:39.860 It's a sprint with no finish line. And not many of us have the luxury of taking time. We just don't.

00:58:48.140 We don't. Listen, you ever watch marathon runners? They are sprinting. They are literally sprinting.

00:58:56.120 They may not be sprinting like 100 meters. All right. But in your life, in your life,

00:59:03.660 it is a marathon. But there's a lot of sprints in those marathons. And those sprints make you

00:59:08.940 uncomfortable. All right. You could have chose to say, you know what? Yeah, it's a marathon. It's a

00:59:15.740 marathon. I'll buy this out in stages. All right. But you were like, I don't know where the finish

00:59:22.780 line is. But I better sprint to that finish line. Because if I don't sprint to it, somebody else

00:59:29.240 might. I might be doing this podcast with somebody else. Right. You 100% would. Not even might,

00:59:35.800 you 100% would. There's one other chapter, Tim, that I really enjoyed. The chapter I really liked

00:59:43.680 is that winning belongs to them, but it's your job to take it. I didn't have-

00:59:50.240 How can I guess on that one that you'd like that one?

00:59:52.640 I love it. I didn't have a bunch of great male role models in my life when I was younger.

00:59:57.640 And one of my stepfathers was one of those individuals who had a lot of mental baggage that

01:00:04.640 he tried to unload on my mother and my sister and myself. But there's one thing I remember that he

01:00:11.400 said he was coaching me with football and I really enjoyed football. And he said, you know, Ryan, I

01:00:15.360 was playing line. Actually, no, I was on the line and I told him I wanted to play linebacker. And so I

01:00:20.000 eventually worked my way to play linebacker for the high school team. And he said to me, and I'll never

01:00:24.620 forget it. He said, Ryan, when that ball goes up in the air, just because you're on defense doesn't

01:00:30.020 mean that ball. You don't have every right to that ball. When that ball goes up in the air,

01:00:35.780 it's your ball. It's your right to catch that ball just as much as it is anybody else on that field.

01:00:42.020 And I will never forget that because I see people all the time who think that when it's time for them, 0.73

01:00:48.840 it will present it rather than going and getting their ass after the ball and making it happen. 0.68

01:00:54.780 It's your job to take it. It is your job to take it. Listen, 0.97

01:01:00.880 when he has no loyalty to you, competition doesn't have any loyalty to you. It takes one

01:01:07.820 instant to go from a champion to a loser. We've seen it in so many times. I don't know if you're

01:01:15.940 a basketball fan, but there's an old commercial with Charles Barkley when he was playing in the day

01:01:21.140 who obviously you would like because he says whatever's on his mind, agree with him or not.

01:01:26.520 He says, what made him such a great rebounder? He goes, well, you have two options. He goes,

01:01:33.040 you can either go look at it or you can go get it. He goes, that's it. That's all.

01:01:39.680 That's it. He goes, that's what makes me a great, that's what makes me a great rebounder.

01:01:43.140 Everybody else is looking at it. I've decided to go get it. All right. So winning belongs to them.

01:01:50.040 Winning always belongs to somebody else. When you came and you went into this business,

01:01:55.420 winning belonged to other individuals that you were competing against for their airtime,

01:02:01.280 for their listeners and so forth. No one was going to say, oh, you know what,

01:02:06.960 Ryan, we're just going to hand you these lists. No, you got to go take it. You have to go take it.

01:02:13.460 And people are afraid to go take things because of what it takes to take things. You got to compete.

01:02:23.380 You got to compete. You got to put yourself out there. All right. And you can't, you can't,

01:02:29.360 it's just not about the grind. It's about grinding for results. If people are talking about, man,

01:02:34.840 I'm in the grind, but yeah, but what are you grinding for? What is the results that you're

01:02:39.100 grinding for? Because if you're just grinding and you continue to grind, what's going to be left?

01:02:44.300 Dust. What's going to be left? Dust. When you grind for something, this goes back to the balance thing.

01:02:52.180 You're taking away the unessentials

01:02:55.100 to form something that you want to form. You know, when you, when people do ice sculptures,

01:03:01.360 it's a block of ice. They don't add more ice to it to create stuff. They chip away at it.

01:03:08.600 They take away, they take, they take things away. So winning, if you want to create that beautiful

01:03:15.780 sculpture of yourself, or you want to create what winning looks like to you, think about that ice

01:03:21.580 block. All right. There's stuff that's being taken away from that ice block. That's the same thing.

01:03:27.120 You got to go take things away from yourself. You got to go take things from somebody else

01:03:31.780 to create what your definition of winning is.

01:03:37.760 Agreed. Well said. And love it. I'd relish in it. I love it. I love to compete. I love to see where

01:03:45.260 we've come. I love to see where you've come. Like these guys who are successful, I'm inspired by it. I

01:03:50.460 think, man, here's the thing that I like the best. This is a fascinating process. I think you'd appreciate

01:03:56.160 this. How do you take somebody who's never heard of you before? Never, never listened to you. Never

01:04:02.940 heard of you. Never cared about anything that you ever thought about to, they listened to your podcast

01:04:09.040 to, they wear your logo on their chest or their head on a hat to, they come to your events to hear

01:04:18.840 you speak. Man, that's such an intriguing process and how you can capture that and develop that and

01:04:27.560 build that. And then these men become advocates and they believe in what you're doing and they share

01:04:32.200 your message and they start to live it themselves. It's just a fascinating process to me. I love it.

01:04:38.340 It's a huge, it's, it's a fascinating process. It's something that's, you've developed over time

01:04:45.520 that you stuck with it. You know what you believed in and to take those individuals,

01:04:53.000 you know, I'm sure at some point they may have been following somebody else or they were wearing

01:04:57.120 somebody else's logo. And you were like, you know what? That person's all that. I'm just going to leave

01:05:02.040 them alone. You're like, no, no, this is what I have. This is what you get when you join, when you

01:05:07.960 listen to what I have to, what I have to say. And you get a few people that come in, let me turn on

01:05:12.620 this. Wow. I really like what, I really like what he's saying. And they listen a little more,

01:05:16.600 they listen a little more. You know, it's funny when Relentless first came out, it was everybody's

01:05:21.120 dirty little secret. It was like, you know, everybody would pass it on underneath, underneath.

01:05:26.900 You need to read, you need to read this book. You know, you need to kind of hear this.

01:05:31.160 And this book is the same way. It's just, the truth is supposed to be out there, yet the truth

01:05:40.460 ends up being everyone's dirty little secret because they don't want to hear it. They don't

01:05:47.000 want to hear it. Well, and I appreciate the work that you're doing. It's so valuable. And that's why

01:05:54.240 this copy is so important to me. And of course, Relentless as well, because we need the truth.

01:06:00.480 And that's why I appreciate guys like you. You know, I know Michael Jordan used to introduce you

01:06:05.540 as the biggest asshole you'll ever meet. I imagine you probably took that as a compliment. You said, 1.00

01:06:10.740 damn right I am. And I'm also telling you the truth. And you're also winning in part because of me. 0.97

01:06:17.080 And here's the thing. I would have not been around that long if I was like everybody else,

01:06:23.320 because everybody else was telling them how great he was, what he needed. And I would be like,

01:06:27.500 no, this is, this is what we need to do. This is, this is where the accountability is. This is where

01:06:32.140 it is. If you want to be the best ever, here it is. All right. And you earn respect from that

01:06:40.000 individual. You know, everyone talks about, listen, you have to respect me. Well, you got to give me

01:06:45.220 something to respect. You got to give me something to respect. If you give me something to respect,

01:06:50.220 I will respect you. So I was giving him something to respect. This is what you, this is what you have

01:06:56.020 to do. This is what, this is how it has to be done. This is when you're wrong. This is what,

01:07:01.560 this is when you're right. And I've done that with every single one of my clients, every single

01:07:08.240 one of them. Winning does not make excuses. It does not make excuses. It's not going to make excuses

01:07:16.780 for you. It's not going to make excuses against you. It is a test with no correct answers. And

01:07:26.120 everybody is always looking for the correct answer. There is no correct. And there is no correct answer

01:07:32.440 on how to do a successful podcast. It's the answers that work for you because the answers that work for

01:07:39.900 somebody else are not going to be a successful podcast for you. And how many times are we taking

01:07:47.560 tests in life and we're letting somebody else give us the answers. And the, usually the answers they

01:07:53.780 give you are the wrong answers. Right. A hundred percent. Well, I hope this book, I know this book will

01:08:00.840 become one that isn't handed under the table. Cause I got it. I got to tell you it's uncomfortable,

01:08:07.740 you know, just, just plainly speaking, you, you read this stuff and you think that's

01:08:12.840 uncomfortable. I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to talk about that. I don't want to

01:08:16.340 look at that for myself, but it's also refreshing. You know, it's a breath of fresh air because you

01:08:23.920 look at it and you think, okay, somebody finally said exactly what I needed to hear to get my ass off

01:08:30.740 the couch or to get that business started or whatever your goal or ambition is.

01:08:37.060 Listen, Ryan, winning is everything. Do you know what I love about what you do?

01:08:43.820 Do everything, experience it, do everything. And just like what you said, I left this, this,

01:08:51.120 this, and this, and people are like, well, I have this and that. Well, I did it. This is what I want

01:08:56.020 experience. Do everything, do everything. That's what winning is about. Winning is everything. It'll

01:09:05.420 make you feel a certain way. Just think about it. How do you feel when you win? It's an unbelievable

01:09:11.760 feeling. How do you feel when your kids win? It's an unbelievable feeling. How do you feel when you

01:09:18.420 have an individuals or individuals in your podcasts and they listen to you and they follow you and they

01:09:24.640 win? You have an unbelievable feeling. When your family wins, when everybody wins, you can have that

01:09:31.480 feeling all the time. You can literally have that feeling all the time. But in order to have that

01:09:39.320 feeling all the time, you got to go through this. You got to go through it. People want to have that

01:09:46.760 feeling without going through this thing. That's the fire. That's too painful for a lot of people,

01:09:53.220 but the people who can endure it always come out ahead. Right. I always say, listen,

01:09:58.020 this book ain't for everyone, but it should be. It should be. It's just what you said. It's going

01:10:06.920 to make, it's going to, it's going to make you uncomfortable. Listen, I could have poured the

01:10:10.560 sprinkles on it and I could have put frosting and icing on it and told all these things and

01:10:15.260 everybody would have been all, this is a great, uh, be in all the book clubs and talk about all this

01:10:19.980 stuff here. Then what's going to happen once you put the book down, you're going to go back to being

01:10:25.100 who you decide everything. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. All right. When you hear the

01:10:32.260 truth, when you hear the harsh reality, when somebody is not afraid to talk about it and not

01:10:38.480 only talk about it, they live it, they understand it. They see other individuals that get it.

01:10:49.580 They know what the true definition of winning is because they've been in that race.

01:10:54.340 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, Tim, I appreciate you. I appreciate a lot you done. I've, I've admired you

01:11:00.040 for a long time and your message, and I'm really looking forward to getting this book and your message

01:11:03.960 into the hands and minds of the guys who tune in because they're going to be served by what you're

01:11:08.160 doing. So I appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for getting this information out

01:11:12.940 there. It is much needed in this society. I think now more than ever. All right. Thank you so much.

01:11:16.960 I can't believe we've been on this for over an hour. Look how quickly that goes quick, goes fast,

01:11:20.720 man. When we're having a good conversation with good people, it goes fast. It goes fast. All right,

01:11:25.420 my friend, thank you so much. And if there's anything we can do for you, please reach out.

01:11:29.680 Thank you, brother. Will do. Take care. My best to you and your family. Always.

01:11:33.240 Likewise. Gentlemen, there you go. Mr. Tim Grover. I know you guys are familiar with him.

01:11:39.780 A lot of you guys have read relentless. In fact, I think in the past I've included relentless on my

01:11:45.720 top 10 list of books that every man needs to read, but I would also include winning. And if you haven't

01:11:50.560 yet picked up a copy of winning, please do so because it's going to help you improve your life.

01:11:55.880 It's a pull no punches instruction manual for winning in life. And it is the antithesis of what

01:12:05.260 society, this, this comfortable coddled sissy nanny society would have you, uh, behave, 0.81

01:12:13.740 believe, and act. It's, it's different. It's unique. It's better. It works. And to the degree that 0.63

01:12:20.280 I've implemented Tim strategies in my life, my life has got infinitely better. It's not for the

01:12:25.720 faint of heart. It's not for the easily offended, but it is for those who want to thrive, who want

01:12:30.700 to win, who want to succeed and want to help other people do it. Tim's done it. He's sharing with you

01:12:35.980 how to do it. So connect with him on Instagram at Tim Grover, connect with me on Instagram at Ryan

01:12:42.160 Mickler, take a screenshot guys. Look, we have an obligation. I mean, really it is an obligation. If

01:12:47.820 we have a tool at our disposal, that's going to help us improve our lives. And it's going to help

01:12:52.560 other people improve their lives. Then we have an obligation to share it. And right now you're

01:12:57.360 listening to something that hopefully serves you and is going to help you in your life. And if there's

01:13:03.240 somebody that's important to you, another man who needs to hear this message, then just take a

01:13:07.240 screenshot or copy the link and send it over your brother or your colleague, your friend, your

01:13:12.380 coworker, your boss, your cousin, your dad, whoever needs to hear the message of reclaiming

01:13:19.140 and restoring masculinity. Please do that. That's how we grow this mission. That's how we grow this

01:13:23.780 movement. That's how we've grown to 35 million downloads. Like I said earlier, and that's how we

01:13:28.380 get the word out about what we're doing, what Tim is doing, what Tim Kennedy and Jocko Willink and

01:13:34.080 Andy Frisilla and David Goggins and Chad Wright and John Eldridge and Madison Cawthorn. And all of

01:13:40.560 the incredible guests that I've had on the podcast, we, we let people know what they're doing by sharing

01:13:46.620 this. So connect with us, take the screenshots, share the links, do all the things. This is your

01:13:52.440 way to contribute and help. And even say, thank you. If you've gotten any value from this guys,

01:13:57.500 we're going to be back on, I think we'll be back tomorrow. Yes. Tomorrow for our ask me anything.

01:14:01.960 And then of course we'll be back for our Friday field notes on Friday and another incredible,

01:14:08.340 incredible guest. Uh, next week, a musician, I'll leave it there. A musician is going to be joining

01:14:15.460 us. So make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review, and we'll see you next week until then

01:14:19.420 guys go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:14:24.740 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to

01:14:29.920 be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 18, 2021

TIM GROVER ｜ Winning Requires ALL of You

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