Order of Man - TIM KENNEDY ｜ To Protect and Preserve Human Life

00:00:00.000 My guest today likely needs no introduction. His name is Tim Kennedy, and he is probably one of

00:00:06.080 the most interesting men on the planet. Now I had the opportunity to talk with him remotely years

00:00:11.620 ago, but to be able to sit down with him at his home was one of my favorite opportunities since

00:00:16.480 I started podcasting over six years ago. We get into a lot during our discussion together,

00:00:22.320 including his plans to replace traditional education with something that will definitely

00:00:26.540 serve our sons and daughters much better. Uh, why he believes that there are forms of quote

00:00:31.860 unquote, toxic masculinity in society, uh, his thoughts on some sort of mandatory military

00:00:37.880 service, uh, why his wife completely believes in him. And we also get into his personal mission,

00:00:44.800 which is to protect and preserve human life. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,

00:00:50.900 embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up

00:00:56.080 one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:03.340 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:08.560 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:12.800 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:17.120 the order of man podcast and movement, which is here and designed to reclaim and restore masculinity

00:01:22.560 to its former glory where men were valued in society, where men were believed in, where men

00:01:28.680 were honorable and capable and hardworking. And it's my job via this podcast to give you the tools

00:01:34.660 and conversations you need to step up as a father, a husband, a business owner, a community leader,

00:01:39.900 and to become the man that you are meant to be the man that you are capable of becoming.

00:01:44.760 Uh, we do that through this podcast. I've got a, an amazing conversation coming up with Tim

00:01:49.180 Kennedy. Uh, last week we had Evan Hafer. We've had Steven Rinella, Andy Frisilla, uh, David Goggins,

00:01:55.320 Jocko Willink. And as I say, every week, the men that have come on this podcast and banded with us

00:02:00.560 in some form or another is a testament to the work that we're doing here. Uh, before I get into my

00:02:05.420 introduction of Tim, as if he needs an introduction, uh, I do want to mention that my friends and show

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00:03:11.080 order at checkout. Again, you're going to get 10% off your subscription for life and free shipping

00:03:16.840 for life. You can do that after we get into the conversation today, because I've got Tim Kennedy

00:03:23.360 on and he is, as you are probably well aware, one of the baddest men on the planet. Uh, he's an army

00:03:29.260 Ranger green beret. He's a former UFC fighter. And among so many other things, he is in the process

00:03:36.020 of opening a school, uh, that will teach young men and women in ways that are much more conducive

00:03:41.400 to their overall success than traditional education. And on top of that, Tim is extremely

00:03:46.860 thoughtful and he's insightful and has always provided me with a new and or a deeper way of

00:03:53.140 looking at my role as a man. So you guys are really going to enjoy this conversation. I know I did.

00:04:01.380 Tim, thanks for inviting us into your home, man. Yeah. Appreciate it. Yeah. We did a podcast. Like

00:04:05.700 I said, I was, I think it was three years ago or so, but it was remote and it was just as I was

00:04:09.240 getting started, getting my feet wet. So hopefully this goes a little better on my end anyways.

00:04:13.540 Yeah. I, um, I have a hard time. I don't, I'm not a big podcast listener, but, um, I don't,

00:04:19.120 if I'm listening to somebody that like a Jocko or a Joe and, um, they're like the person that

00:04:26.060 they're having on their podcast is remote. I'm like, man, it's different, man. It's different.

00:04:31.980 Like we, we've tried to do a lot more live conversations and it's different. It's better.

00:04:37.520 The dynamics different. The conversation goes better. You can read each other. Uh, you know,

00:04:42.420 we get like that anyways, with being online, you can't see the nuances and the tone or the inflection

00:04:47.080 of people's voices. So it's hard to know where people are coming from. I was on a zoom call

00:04:51.380 and that a bunch of people were wearing masks on the call and whatever on the call, on the call.

00:04:56.700 Okay. I think they were in their office building. It was like a government. Yeah. I got it. So like,

00:05:00.260 I'm not going to throw stones. Like, I don't know what the situation was. It might be the policy for

00:05:03.780 the city that they work for, whatever it was. But I mean, the deviation from like an in-person

00:05:09.580 conversation where, um, if you're a jerk or you're being passive aggressive, I, first of all,

00:05:16.140 I can identify, I can read it and then I can like punish you, you know, for being a prick.

00:05:20.860 Sure. Uh, where like there's a Delta between, uh, in-person conversation and a remote virtual

00:05:28.120 conversation. And then there's an even another one where like three quarters of your face is

00:05:33.300 covered. Definitely. I'm like, my, my, we want as well just text message, you know,

00:05:37.500 cause there's no sarcasm. There's no conveyance of any clever wit. I have no idea what you're

00:05:41.600 saying right now, but I think I want to kill you. Right. Is that your, is that your default?

00:05:46.620 Oh yeah. Absolutely. It's like, everybody's trying to kill me unless you prove otherwise.

00:05:49.920 Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a pretty good move, especially this day and age.

00:05:53.120 Yeah. Here we are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to this day, the Mujahideen still can't get me. So,

00:05:57.580 you know, I'm doing something right. Yeah. I, so, I mean, you're, you basically tempted

00:06:01.980 them, right? And no, they started it. Well, I know, but you, you were like, okay, yeah,

00:06:06.040 bring it on. Right. Well, I didn't like walk into a bear cave. Yeah. I was like, well,

00:06:09.780 I guess I did cause I went there first and then I killed a bunch of terrorists and then I came back

00:06:13.320 here, but it's not like I came back here and then I was like, ha ha ha, you guys can't get me.

00:06:17.500 Right. You know, um, they were actively recruiting local ISIS to find somebody to kill me or to attack

00:06:25.780 my family here, here. Right. Yeah. So I, I didn't go out and I was like, Hey, here I am. Come and try

00:06:31.260 and find me. Like they started it. So then when they did that, I was like, I picked up and called Fox news

00:06:37.980 and told them that they could send anybody they want, but I'm going to kill them all.

00:06:42.740 Right. And they just can't ever get them back, you know? Yeah. Well, I think that's a pretty

00:06:47.960 credible threat coming from you. Yeah. Did somebody try to break into your house not too long ago?

00:06:54.180 It was, it was a couple of years ago. Was it, uh, was it like just random or was it targeted?

00:07:00.620 It was, it was kind of both. Okay. So one landscaper talked to another landscaper and that landscaper

00:07:07.200 told this other landscaper that in this house, there was a bunch of guns and money, um, but

00:07:15.620 they didn't know who you were. They didn't know who I was. Okay. No. So as it like got

00:07:20.080 to the felon friend of the landscaper, they, uh, you know, like the game of telephone, it's

00:07:27.520 like, Hey, his name is so-and-so. And by the time it finally gets around a whole bunch

00:07:31.680 of miss, it was Jim. Yeah. There's information that has been like important information that's

00:07:38.680 been omitted from this conversation. So by the time it got to said, uh, professional

00:07:43.160 burglar, you know, and when you're a professional burglar, it's not like there's, you're the

00:07:47.020 smartest guy in the world. Yeah. I can imagine there's life choices that have been made that

00:07:51.200 have put you on a trajectory to, to the position that you're in, which is like the bottom feeder

00:07:55.640 of society. Yeah. Cause some, sometimes when you hear professional burglar, I'm thinking

00:07:58.800 like, uh, oceans 11 or Italian job, but it's probably not like that. No, no. Like

00:08:03.480 this is like a kind of drug addict that drives this really crappy beat up car that parked

00:08:07.900 directly in front of my house, which was like the first thing that sent off the first motion

00:08:12.620 sensor before the cameras even kicked on was like, there's a car stopped in front of your

00:08:16.100 house. Cause you can set up cameras where like if a car pattern wise drives in front of

00:08:21.620 your house. Oh, really? Numerous times. It'll actually alert you. So there's some really

00:08:26.780 cool software out there these days. So one of the things that we have was like, if your

00:08:30.720 car stops in front of my house for a period of time, it's like, cause there's not a stop

00:08:35.520 sign. There's no reason. There's no reason you would stop here. Yeah. Right. Um, it's

00:08:38.900 like a car parked at your house at three 49 AM is like curious, you know? And then it's

00:08:44.280 like movement by rear back door. And it's nice. Open up the camera and there's like a dude

00:08:48.340 lifting up the mat and looking underneath the flower pot. And it's like, and you were here.

00:08:52.280 Yeah. Well, a different house. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like the balls on this guy. Yeah. Or, or,

00:08:57.980 or not like just the stupidity stupidity. Yeah. So it ended up that he had just heard

00:09:02.660 there's a bunch of money and guns in this house and didn't know who I was, never Googled

00:09:06.840 anything. So, um, I mean, he was doing all the right stuff to try and get in here, but

00:09:11.160 he was missing all of the indicators. A good, when we say professional burglar, you're

00:09:15.660 like, if I think a professional, we're going to walk up to a house and he's like, huh, these

00:09:20.840 windows have a shatterproof entry proof film on them installed by three M. Cause I can see

00:09:26.400 that in the corner. Curious. Yeah. That wouldn't be on a typical average house. Yeah. Like this

00:09:32.580 home is protected by so-and-so security company, you know, and then you like look up and there's

00:09:36.120 a different security system on the exterior of the house. Is that redundant security? Also,

00:09:44.660 maybe not the house to hit. I walk up to like this massive Oak door with ornate metal that

00:09:50.140 makes it, I mean, batter ramp proof nearly. And you look at this door and you're like,

00:09:55.420 I mean, at some point, something should click. Yeah. But like the, the cost versus gain analysis

00:10:01.240 in these, these criminals brains, they still see dollar signs, right? Yeah. They're clouded

00:10:07.080 by that. Yeah. The salesman that like sees the potential, uh, you know, you're working

00:10:11.520 on a, a car dealership lot and somebody walks in wearing a Rolex, nice boots. Like how much

00:10:17.040 time you're going to spend on there before you realize that this guy's waiting for his

00:10:21.600 girlfriend to get off work across the street and he's just walking, taking calls, you know,

00:10:25.600 but you're still like focused. It's the same blindness. So after he hit every exterior door,

00:10:31.160 he, he starts going to windows and, um, he went window, window. And the next window was going to

00:10:37.460 be my son's window who was three and a half at the time. So it was like window, window gun to the

00:10:43.540 back of the head. If you move an inch, um, I'm going to canoe your brain and then I'll have to

00:10:48.960 clean my lawn. Um, I think that's actually what I said to him. And that's a, that would scare me.

00:10:54.320 Yeah. I've never murdered anyone on my lawn before. And first for everything, I suppose.

00:11:00.140 No, this is still part of the conversation. Oh, you've said that. You said that I told this to

00:11:03.520 him. Okay. Got it. Like I've never murdered anybody on my lawn before, but, um, I'm fully down to do

00:11:07.960 that. So I want you to lay down. Do you have any guns, any weapons? He's like, yeah. I'm like,

00:11:12.820 ah, man. Yeah. So it was a, it was a, the authorities came, took care of business.

00:11:17.780 No, man. So that was a bummer. Really? Yeah. There was a shooting downtown Austin at the time

00:11:22.480 and, um, Travis County had, that had moved the call from Austin dispatch to Travis County dispatch

00:11:32.380 and then Travis County dispatch to the region call center. So then I was talking to a Williamson

00:11:38.480 County dispatcher who was putting it back to the call center that was then sending it back

00:11:42.340 to Travis County. Then I was sending back to APD because everybody was overwhelmed kind of at the

00:11:46.760 time. Right. They had this officer involved shooting. Sure. So like all resources, which I get.

00:11:52.060 Yeah. So it went from, there's an armed person trying to break into my home to a, um, trespassing

00:11:59.240 at three o'clock in the morning. And, uh, so I'm, I'm on the lawn with this guy for like 30 minutes

00:12:04.440 and finally, Hey dude, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut you loose. Really? Yeah. Like you're gonna take a

00:12:10.820 walk. If I see you here again, I'm going to keep your taser, which you had on you kind of weird,

00:12:14.960 bro. Um, the duct tape, which you also had seriously weird. And, um, this 1980s flashlight,

00:12:21.220 you know, the mag ones that are like a big silver, like, yeah, sure. And, uh, so yeah, I cut them loose.

00:12:26.100 Yeah. Yeah. That's his lucky day. Yeah. I mean, on multiple, on multiple different fronts. Yeah.

00:12:33.960 Oh my goodness. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about like what, what I want to talk. I mean,

00:12:38.040 there's so much we can talk about, but I've always been really curious. You know, you have so many

00:12:41.060 things going on and when we get done with this conversation, I know you're going somewhere else

00:12:44.540 and I'm always curious, like, what is it that propels you? What is it that drives you? Because

00:12:49.980 you're an intense guy. Obviously, you know what you're talking about. You're, you've been immersed in

00:12:54.180 this world for, for as long as I'm sure you've been alive. We were talking about that martial arts

00:12:58.480 at, you know, six years old. What is it that drives you? Oh man. Um, can we go dark early?

00:13:05.380 As soon as you want. Yeah. So I'm not going to tell you, no, after the story you just told me,

00:13:09.380 so whatever you want to talk about. So I've done a bunch of terrible things and, um, war is terrible.

00:13:15.080 And by no means am I saying the greater good makes those things that we have done in war. I'm even

00:13:22.760 like the most righteous shooting on the planet where that is a terrorist. He just tried to blow up,

00:13:28.540 um, this whole entire line of people delivering food. And then he jumps out from the bushes with

00:13:36.700 his AK and shoots up that lead vehicle that are doctors without borders, you know, and then I shoot

00:13:42.280 that guy, even as justified as that sounds from his side, that's just another man that's trying

00:13:48.220 to protect the values, his ideology. Yeah. Sure. And, um, and there's nothing worse than taking

00:13:54.900 another human's life like that. I think anybody could do. Um, and I've done that my whole entire

00:14:01.600 adult life, you know, like from nine 11, when I was 21 years old until today, that's all I've ever

00:14:09.160 done. It's all I've ever known. You're like that picture behind you. That's my task force. When we

00:14:12.940 killed Zarkawi in 2006, you know, like that's from me being in Afghanistan, which I got blown up

00:14:19.240 two times. It was in gunfights for three days at a time. It's like, this is all I've ever done and

00:14:22.860 known. And it has to be worth it. Like I have to have done these things like for my sanity's sake,

00:14:31.020 I can't sleep at night without thinking that and believing, not thinking, believing that I've been

00:14:37.900 doing the right things for the right purpose, for the right reason. And I go back to the kind of

00:14:43.040 the founding documents of this country. And I read, you know, sentences like all men are created

00:14:49.260 equal. And I'm like, yeah, I believe that. I believe that to the core. And I know that we have

00:14:53.320 not ever attained that where all people start on the same level and that all people are given the

00:14:59.440 same opportunities equally at the same portion. Of course. But I think this country has tried harder

00:15:04.560 than anyone ever to make that dream be realized. So I focus on that dream. And I say, I need that

00:15:11.680 dream to be realized or everything that I've ever done is for naught, right? I look at my kids, you

00:15:15.980 know, I look at my, my daughters and I say, you know, like if she wants to be an astronaut or a Navy

00:15:21.580 seal and she's capable and they don't have to lower the standards, then she should be able to do

00:15:26.100 that. Whatever they want to do. Um, that again, is that dream all created equal, all genders,

00:15:31.560 all races, all religions, like name it equal. So that's the thing that propels me is, is this

00:15:38.020 purpose of all of these things would be for naught. Right. Is there anything that you've seen,

00:15:45.360 you know, with, with what you do in your line of work and government and the direction of politics

00:15:49.480 and life and culture and society where you've actually questioned is what I'm doing still the

00:15:55.580 right thing? Is it for naught? Have you ever questioned that? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean,

00:15:59.140 how do you deal with that? How do you wrestle with that? I mean, some, some really weird things

00:16:03.060 where I would be in a country in North Africa and this was like eight years ago. Okay. And I went back

00:16:13.480 last year and the younger brother, uh, like the nine years, younger brother, that was just like a

00:16:21.320 five-year-old kid at the time is now doing the same thing that his dickhead brother was doing.

00:16:26.760 Right. When I was there last time. And now I'm like, did I cause this a vacuum or a,

00:16:33.400 yeah. Like, or like, because I sent his brother to, to jail essentially, did I then radicalize

00:16:40.100 the younger brother? Like, is this an immediate causation? Not because of correlations causation

00:16:46.620 or, but an escalation of some sorts into this. Am I to blame for this? Yeah. You know, if,

00:16:51.280 if I go to a bomb maker's house and I hit that bomb maker's house and we find all the bomb making

00:16:57.500 material and maybe we shoot the bomb maker. Um, but that whole entire village, maybe that guy was

00:17:03.360 providing the funds that fed that whole entire village. Maybe, right. Maybe like every wedding

00:17:10.300 has been paid for by the Taliban and the pal, the Taliban was paying that guy to support that village.

00:17:17.860 And that's how they operate. Right. So when I come in there and I remove without a doubt,

00:17:22.740 an evil person that is killing people that believe in freedom, uh, the, the secondary and tertiary

00:17:28.100 effects of that are this ripple like butterfly effect, like how many things in the second,

00:17:33.180 third order effects are, are negatively impacted by the things that I do. And there's, there's no way

00:17:38.700 if you go down the rabbit hole, think about those things. Yeah. Oh, I can't imagine, bro. But then when

00:17:42.840 you see it firsthand and you go back and you're like, hello, little brother, man, you look like your big

00:17:47.280 brother. Why are you doing this? I think it's easy for somebody like myself or most of the people

00:17:53.020 listening to just say, yeah, that's, that's the right. You did the right thing because we only see

00:17:58.120 right and wrong. We see it from this outside, uh, circumstances. We don't have any real consequences

00:18:03.820 of your actions, but you take somebody like yourself, who's deeply immersed in it. And it starts

00:18:08.660 to round out that conversation. You start looking at a little different. It's one of the things I love

00:18:13.280 about podcasts is the subtlety and nuance and conversation, right? So I think when people look

00:18:17.760 at soldiers and they, they see black and white, right? Like I got orders and I did the right thing

00:18:21.660 or I did the wrong thing, or like they followed the orders they didn't, right? Like, but then you look

00:18:25.180 at the Nazis and you're like, oh wait, those guys were just following orders. Yeah. I mean, is that,

00:18:30.360 does that mean it's okay to be black and white? No. If we say that they're just following orders,

00:18:34.600 we're automatically condemning them. But then is it okay if our soldiers do that? What if those are just

00:18:39.040 orders? But what I'm with the perspective of the fascists at the time that were stuck in this

00:18:44.120 vacuum, they had no other choice. And by no means am I rationalizing what the Nazis did. They all

00:18:49.620 should burn in hell. Right. Well, you had that show, you know, the show and you dedicated a lot

00:18:53.420 of your life towards- To hunting Nazis.

00:18:54.880 Flushing this stuff out. Clearly I don't like them. Right. But we miss the nuance, the subtlety in,

00:19:01.860 in especially war. Like war is not black and white. I mean, it is not even shades of gray. I mean,

00:19:06.600 it is like this murky darkness that is indescribable and, um, and soldiers see those things. And these

00:19:14.560 aren't just, you know, guys with great haircuts and broad shoulders that go in and just do the

00:19:19.440 thing and, you know, march on for justice. They, um, they know firsthand, unfortunately, the consequence

00:19:25.880 of the decisions. And it's, it's a tough thing to, to have to face. Yeah. And I imagine, like you said,

00:19:33.500 you're wrestling it with it every day. You're thinking, am I doing the right thing? Am I still

00:19:37.920 doing the right thing? And then you say these guys, like the Nazis, for example, they didn't

00:19:41.340 have a choice. And then it's easy for me to say, well, sure they did. You just do right. But then

00:19:44.800 you think, okay, I could very easily be that, that guy that was in 1930s, 1940s, you know, German young

00:19:52.480 man trying to raise a family. I, that could very easily be me, but it seems like we, we have a hard

00:19:57.700 time learning the lessons and then applying them for any sustained period of time. Like we might

00:20:03.660 learn the lessons of war or how dangerous it is or destructive or violent that it is. And we can

00:20:07.960 remember that for a couple of years. And it's like, oh yeah, that, that's, that's the past. That

00:20:11.740 doesn't apply today. Yeah. I don't know. We were so short-sighted. Um, there's, there's instances

00:20:19.060 where I'll bring up both the Holocaust and I'll get this quizzical look on a generation Z or a

00:20:25.700 police, like the, the Holocaust, you know, where they killed like 12 million people in

00:20:31.780 genocide, specifically about ethnicity. The hall, the, you know what we're talking about

00:20:36.900 here, right? Yeah. Um, is that like really what happened in, in like Holland? Are you

00:20:43.960 serious? Yeah. All the time. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Do you think this is part of your, I mean,

00:20:50.120 I know you've got the school going on or you're, you're starting the school. We talked a little

00:20:53.360 bit about that. I'm really curious about your decision to, cause it seems like there's multiple

00:20:59.800 components of it. There might be a school and then there's, there's a, a boy's component

00:21:03.720 of it. If I understand correctly, tell me about that. Is that part of the reasoning why you wanted

00:21:07.100 to get involved this way with education? Yeah. So, so a green beret is a force multiplier,

00:21:13.780 like unconventional warfare, guerrilla warfare. You take four of us, 12 of us, and you drop us

00:21:21.440 behind the enemy lines with two, 300 insurgents. We teach them leadership. We teach them government.

00:21:27.320 We teach them how to conduct guerrilla operations through unconventional warfare. And, um, ultimately

00:21:34.020 that group that we're working with by, with, and through by, by their side with them in their

00:21:39.780 actions and all successes through their own wishes to see freedom realized. And, um, so we have like

00:21:47.980 the three A's advise, assist, and accompany. So we'll advise them on how to do things. We'll assist

00:21:52.880 them in what they should be doing them. And then we accompany them. Like I'm, I'm fighting right

00:21:56.260 beside them as we run in to fight, you know, fascism, socialism, um, authoritarianism, all of the isms

00:22:04.460 that happen all over the globe. Yeah. And, um, so as a force multiplier, when I was overseas and I seen

00:22:11.960 the things that were happening here at home, I'm like, man, could I be more impactful taking the

00:22:18.260 same formula, the thing that I've been trained to do by the government and do that here, right? Can I

00:22:24.820 go and give the same tools and the same, um, leadership to Americans as I have been abroad?

00:22:35.340 Mm-hmm. And, um, and that realization, like, I think we've been losing the, the narrative, the battle

00:22:41.140 for what is right, what is just, what is ethical, what is, what does integrity look like? When I look

00:22:46.780 at politicians right now, I know we have been losing on both sides. Sure. Like I'm like left side,

00:22:53.180 bunch of idiots, right side, bunch of idiots in the middle, there's nobody there. Um, so how,

00:23:00.300 how do we, how do we start? Like if the Titanic was heading towards that iceberg, how early did

00:23:06.720 they just have to change the heading one degree, one degree, and they would have missed the whole

00:23:12.580 entire thing, but they would have had to start it early enough. Right. Sure. And I think education,

00:23:17.760 I believe education has been failing us. Uh, there, we are not preparing the next generation for what's

00:23:24.900 coming. And, um, so you got to get them early. You got to start young. So as a force multiplier,

00:23:33.220 the school and the young men's mentoring program both fall under Apogee. So Apogee Cedar Park is

00:23:40.640 going to be the school, the physical school that I'm opening here. And that'll be, yeah,

00:23:43.700 that'll be here. Okay. Yeah. Right. Three miles from where we're sitting right now. Awesome.

00:23:47.300 And I mean, big massive building, you know, it'll be entry proof windows and secure. It's going to be

00:23:52.060 so cool. I've got green berets sitting around desks as, uh, like these learners, these heroes

00:23:57.480 are taking their education into their own hands. There's no teachers in this building.

00:24:02.440 Right. There's explain. I was talking with Matt and he was telling me a little bit about that,

00:24:06.480 but explain the way that the learning is done. Um, you got any lawyers in your family? Um, yes,

00:24:12.400 I do. Okay. Yeah. So, um, most law schools do Socratic education. Okay. So there's a question

00:24:18.540 that's poised that's posed and that question, when you go to answer that question, you answer that

00:24:24.240 question with another question, right? If in law, if I ask a question that is directing towards an

00:24:31.960 answer that's leading a witness, right? So you have to be able to ask questions, but you have to have

00:24:37.060 incredible understanding of the topic. There has to be a destination that you're trying to navigate

00:24:42.240 towards that you have to guide, right? Which is kind of like the podcast, right? It's like, okay,

00:24:45.840 here's what I want to talk about, but I'm asking questions to get there. So the actual, the role

00:24:49.640 of the, in most people's minds, the teachers or the educators, their guides. So what we're doing

00:24:56.300 is I'm taking masters of a craft. I mean, people, true professionals that, I mean, whether it's be,

00:25:02.340 I don't want an academic that went to school for engineering and then has taught engineering.

00:25:07.760 I want somebody that built a bridge and knows how to weld, right? Come in here and show us if this six,

00:25:13.280 this group, this pod, the studio of six to eight year olds want to put a new monkey bar on our

00:25:21.600 playscape out there. And they are going to do it themselves. You can't teach them. You can't tell

00:25:28.960 them what to do. You can only guide them to figure it out and how to, so like from how strong, what

00:25:35.420 kind of metal are we going to be using? How long are the monkey bars structurally? What are the

00:25:39.820 connectors like insurance wise, liability wise, all of these things? Six year olds are going to

00:25:44.980 figure out. That's cool. But not once is that engineer going to go in there and be like, this

00:25:49.120 is what you do. Let me give you the, he's going to have to guide them. He's going to have to show

00:25:54.100 them formulas about, um, how to work the mechanical engineering of structural strength, right? Um,

00:26:03.080 shock load compared to hanging weight, you know, like all of those things that a normal engineer

00:26:08.060 would know. Sure. But very few of them have ever got the opportunity to apply it. So now we're

00:26:15.200 going to have six and eight year olds applying it. That's it. And then is the idea that it's going to

00:26:20.060 replace your formal education? Is that, is that the idea or is it supplement supplementary to,

00:26:26.720 okay, no, I, and there, there's no doubt this is not, I'm not arguing that this is a better form

00:26:31.800 of education. Um, this disruptive approach through Socratic, uh, the Socratic approach gives

00:26:38.000 the opportunity for hunger, um, for exploration. Uh, I mean like everything that a kid harnesses

00:26:48.240 and wanting to learn as a child, just playing, playing a hundred percent. We're going to play all

00:26:52.480 day long. And they, when you sit somebody down in a, behind a desk and you lecture them for six

00:27:00.960 hours, you are stifling and you are, you're silencing that thing. I don't know what that

00:27:07.900 thing is, but it's a yearning. I remember it. And I remember being duct taped to chairs. I was duct

00:27:12.680 taped to benches, belted to benches to do homework and to sit into class. I got spanked in my

00:27:19.740 kindergarten year like a half a dozen times for, for being, for being a five year old boy,

00:27:25.640 right. You know, where instead you could have harnessed that energy and been like, Oh, let's go

00:27:31.460 explore. Let's go play. Let's go create. Let's go build. Let's destroy. And, um, so even on

00:27:41.640 standardized testing and we have been doing this, why I say we, um, a bunch of different schools from

00:27:47.780 Montessori to Acton, all of them have taken different variations of the similar approach.

00:27:53.880 All of them perform. I'm not talking like a little bit better on standardized testing.

00:27:58.620 I'm talking like really insanely better. You can't even compare them. When you look at like

00:28:03.100 a middle school kid that graduated from a public school or, or even a private traditional school.

00:28:07.960 And then you look at the Montessori's and Acton's. It's not even fair. Really? Yeah.

00:28:14.760 Kids launching businesses at 15 full blown entrepreneurs going to the city being like,

00:28:18.920 I need a business license. Like you're 15. Like, and that changes what? Right. That's your

00:28:23.680 problem. That's not my problem. You know, like, well, you're not old enough to sign up. Like again,

00:28:27.560 that's a you problem. That's not a me problem. I have legitimate business. And here's actually my,

00:28:32.020 my P and L that I've done for the past two years since I'm 13. Yeah. But now I'm 15 and I'd like to go

00:28:37.300 official. That's interesting. You said, um, before we hit record, you were saying, you know,

00:28:42.080 you're dealing with some of the red tape and all the bureaucracy and everything you're dealing with.

00:28:45.180 So talk to me about that component. Cause I, and I, and I said, I'm like, look, I don't think the

00:28:49.980 school system wants you to be doing this. No. So talk to me about that. Well, government doesn't

00:28:56.380 want small business. They don't first and foremost, when they look at the Amazons and the Walmarts and

00:29:01.620 the home depots and they're like, do what we're going to do. We're going to shut down every small

00:29:05.640 shop on the planet, but you guys, but you guys, and we're also going to incentivize success for

00:29:10.420 you and then penalize them. Um, cause for a variety of reasons that we don't have to go into,

00:29:17.640 but then when you go into education, if the public school was going to open up a school in my exact

00:29:24.880 location, they don't have to do a single thing that the city in an itemized 11 page report said

00:29:31.640 that I have to do really 11 pages itemized of all the things I have to do for me to be able to open

00:29:38.600 the school, you know, like, um, a disability sidewalk that goes from the, from the front

00:29:43.600 of the street connected to their sidewalk, to all of the doors on my property. And it has to,

00:29:49.240 you know, go a certain way. The fire lane has to be built a certain way. The kids drop off has to be

00:29:54.460 a certain way. The firewalls between uses, you know, like if we're going to have a snack room,

00:29:58.780 that's next to, um, a playroom, there has to be a firewall between those two rooms.

00:30:03.940 Okay. And I get a lot of this life and safety things.

00:30:05.860 Sure. Of course. Yeah. Like life and safety paramount. Got it. Um, and then you get into

00:30:10.240 like, there has to be a tree within five feet of every parking space. Well, every single one of

00:30:15.040 those things, a public school doesn't have to do. Hmm. They're like, don't we're going to do.

00:30:20.620 We're going to strip mine this whole entire property. And then I'm going to lay impervious cover

00:30:24.820 concrete over every inch of everything. And, um, then I'm going to build a big prison right there

00:30:31.300 in the middle of it. And that's where the kids are going to sit. And the city's like, that's great.

00:30:35.480 Perfect. Right. Check. Yeah. You got it. But, um, Tim Kennedy, you want to open up a private school

00:30:41.100 that's disruptive education. That's a Socratic approach to teaching. Hmm. So,

00:30:46.820 but why, why is that a problem though? Why, why do you think that's the issue? They don't want you to

00:30:51.440 control. Hmm. I mean, like everything about bureaucracy is about control. And, um, the,

00:30:57.960 the more government that there is, the more bureaucracy that there is, the more difficult

00:31:02.520 it is for anything to ever get done. You ever watched Parks and Rec? Yeah, sure. Love that

00:31:06.640 show. Yeah. It's a great show. Yeah. Um, you know, it's kind of like my spirit, you know,

00:31:10.640 spirit. And Ron's amazing. Yeah. I want to be that guy. But Ron personifies what's wrong with

00:31:14.440 government. How so? So he would sit there and be like, I'm not going to do anything. Yeah. Right. I'm

00:31:20.140 going to be the least functioning portion of this space because I don't think government should be

00:31:25.180 doing any of this. But in actuality, in practice, he is slowing down the process. That is what

00:31:30.900 government is. That is what government is. That's funny. So the irony is while he, I totally like,

00:31:35.800 I love, Oh, do I need a permit? Here's a letter. It's good. Yeah. He can do whatever he wants.

00:31:40.900 Oh, you can do whatever you want. That's all this says. Yeah. You know, he's like, of course,

00:31:45.080 and I'm going to eat bacon. And we're, we all totally side with him. Of course. We're like,

00:31:48.000 this, this guy's amazing. I want to be here when I grow up. But then you take a step back and look

00:31:51.920 at him in the irony, the hypocrisy of his position in the government for produced nothing. It did

00:32:00.700 nothing. It helped no one. It literally was just a succubus. It was just a leech on the taxpayer

00:32:06.680 dollars. Yeah. I mean, that's true. I, I wonder why so many people believe that the government can do

00:32:15.920 things right is somehow more moral than individuals on their own. Yeah. That's always a fascinating

00:32:24.280 thing to me. It's like, what's not though, because it's nice when somebody else does something for

00:32:30.980 you. Sure. Of course. You know, and there's a fear of failure and doing something yourself.

00:32:36.340 Um, and when I have somebody that can stand in front of me that I can vote for, and that person says

00:32:43.100 that they're going to give me free education, free healthcare, and they're going to give me

00:32:46.100 a 1600, $1,600 stipend a month. Um, when I look at my life, I'm like, man, I'd like to go to school

00:32:52.940 for free. Like my education was really expensive, you know, as was my wife's, you know, her student

00:32:57.280 loan that it took us years to pay off when we first got married. And are they going to pay me back for

00:33:04.900 that by the way? I don't know. I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think that's going to happen. All right.

00:33:08.460 Yeah. Um, Oh, since everybody else is going to get it now, we'll go ahead and apply that

00:33:12.480 retroactively. Yeah. I don't think that's going to happen. The, the, the fear, the same thing about

00:33:18.680 like launching a business when you're sitting at a nine to five and it's, it's, it's stealing your

00:33:23.580 soul away. You're like, I could do this so much better than this big corporation that I work for,

00:33:28.300 but why don't you step off and do it? What, if you know, you could do it better for the customer,

00:33:32.900 you could provide a better service. You could provide maybe even a better, um,

00:33:38.680 income for your family. Like, why don't you men? Let me just hit the pause button on the

00:33:45.540 conversation with Tim real quick. Look, it doesn't matter what your goals are. If you can't craft a

00:33:50.600 strategy for attacking your day, that moves you systematically towards the completion of what

00:33:56.220 those goals are. And inside of our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, uh, we are talking

00:34:01.240 about exactly this crafting the perfect day for the entire month of February. You know, the truth is

00:34:06.660 that I've spent years of my life floundering around wondering how I was going to make something of

00:34:12.260 myself. And to a degree, I believe that when it was meant to happen, it just would, but it wasn't

00:34:18.080 until I was introduced to several mentors, uh, who explained to me the importance of a powerful

00:34:24.800 morning routine, uh, certain strategies and tactics and tools to use throughout the day,

00:34:29.720 uh, and how to perfectly recap your day in order to carry the momentum over that. I actually began

00:34:35.660 to realize what I set out to accomplish. So if you're interested in learning those exact

00:34:41.160 strategies and formulas that I learned years ago, uh, please join me in the iron council.

00:34:46.180 This is our exclusive brotherhood. You're going to get access to that information and the

00:34:49.620 accountability and brotherhood and camaraderie that comes with banding with nearly 800 other men.

00:34:54.160 You can do that at order a man.com slash iron council. Again, order a man.com slash iron

00:34:59.640 council. Uh, do that after the conversation for now, we'll finish it up with Tim.

00:35:05.540 Yeah. It's the fear. I mean, what if it goes wrong? I don't have a steady paycheck.

00:35:09.460 I've got a bunch of risks that my employees now covering that I don't have to deal with.

00:35:12.920 Yeah. And until you've been on the receiving end of the government failing you, you don't know

00:35:17.560 firsthand. All you see is promises. You see hope and hope's not a plan, you know, and promises

00:35:23.780 that never come to fruition are, I mean, well, they're not promises. This is lies really. Yeah.

00:35:31.800 This is what that would be. Yep. Yeah. And the military I think is uniquely positioned and I wish

00:35:38.340 people would, especially vets that have to deal with the VA. I wish when you talk about free

00:35:43.400 healthcare, I wish every person that wanted to go and vote for free healthcare would go and talk to

00:35:48.400 somebody that gets free healthcare from the government. Yeah. Well, I can tell you even

00:35:52.860 personally, I have my VA benefits, but I go to a private practice physician because I, and I pay to

00:36:00.540 do that because it's better than what I would have to go through. It's horrible. It's horrible. It is

00:36:06.420 agreed. Yeah. I'm in like a two year process of just like figuring out what happened when I got

00:36:12.960 blown up 12 years ago, you know, like, yeah. And then trying to get benefits for that and make sure

00:36:19.520 you're taken care of physically and mentally. And it's a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. It is a night. Like

00:36:23.960 we don't say nightmare, like, Oh, it's a lot of scheduling problems and kind of an inconvenience.

00:36:29.080 Like it's a nightmare. Go do a sleep study at the VA. Yeah. I've never done that.

00:36:36.360 I don't, I don't want, that doesn't sound even remotely pleasurable at all, or, or even just

00:36:40.960 survivable. So, uh, you know, one of the things I've heard you say in the past, talking about the

00:36:46.960 military is how much we're struggling to find young men who are qualified, which is really

00:36:51.400 interesting because when I joined the military, when I was 18, so that would have been 99.

00:36:55.900 Um, I mean, what'd you have to do like 10 or 15 pushups or something and run a, run a mile and

00:37:02.580 maybe like 15 minutes. The bar was so low and I don't know, frankly, I don't know what it is

00:37:07.280 right now, but it can't be any higher. It's not. It seems so strange to me that we're having hard

00:37:11.760 time finding qualified soldiers and warriors for different branches. Are we more obese or less

00:37:17.140 obese than we were in 1999? More. Sure. Are there more instances of diabetes, especially childhood

00:37:21.820 diabetes in 99 or currently in 2021? I imagine there are now. There are absolutely more. Do you think

00:37:26.160 that academically we are having kids that are performing better or worse than we were in 1999?

00:37:30.300 I'm sad to say that probably worse. Do you think that there's more participation in sports

00:37:36.740 per capita in 1999 or 2001? More. 2021. More years ago. Correct. Yeah. Those are all accurate

00:37:44.980 assumptions. So, um, schools are swelling. We have more kids in school, but fewer and fewer of them are

00:37:50.120 actually playing sports. We have more kids in school, but few of the, fewer and fewer of them are

00:37:54.420 taking the extracurricular classes or the college AP courses, preparing them for life.

00:37:59.440 Um, the percentage of those are staggeringly declining. So on a recruiter's office,

00:38:05.600 also the perception of the military in, uh, we've been at war for 20 years and, you know,

00:38:11.560 in 1999 pre-war, we're like, ah, Panama, Grenada. Those were like a weekend, right? That's all we

00:38:18.100 had to gauge off. That's all it was. Sure. In 30 years, 30 years, that was all the conflict that we had

00:38:25.100 little things, but nothing big Kosovo. Sure. But, um, now imagine being a 15 year old and you at 15

00:38:34.920 in 1994, you're looking there and be like, man, it's been a pretty cool year. You know, like I can,

00:38:40.800 I can go to school. They're going to pay for my college. You know, they're going to get,

00:38:43.980 I'm gonna get a salary. Um, I'm gonna come out and I'll be able to go and into this great job

00:38:48.560 that they're going to set me up for. Now they're like, they see veterans walking around without

00:38:53.300 limbs. Right. And they see all of the different movies from SEAL Team 6 and whatever network that

00:38:58.660 is, or like, you know, getting Ben Laden or whatever movie is dropping this week where,

00:39:03.140 you know, Chris Pine or Chris Stone, I don't know, Hemsworth or whatever the other Chris's are,

00:39:07.740 aren't yet again, another bad-ass soldier. Yeah, of course. And, um, getting shot up and blown up and

00:39:13.140 that's reality. And that is a tough reality to be like, so from a recruiting perspective,

00:39:18.920 they have less eligible kids because they're fatter. Right. Um, they're not as smart. Yep.

00:39:26.260 And then they have less interest. They have less interest because they're looking at this

00:39:30.380 occupation and being like, yikes. Yeah. Well, I don't want to do that. That looks dangerous.

00:39:35.940 Wait, even if I just drive a truck, I'm just happy with PS5 doing it on PS5,

00:39:39.540 Call of Duty or whatever. All day long. Yeah.

00:39:41.240 Yeah. Yeah. So it's, we're, we're, we're, we're struggling. Is that part of your,

00:39:48.140 so you've got the, uh, you've got the school that you're going to do and then you've got

00:39:51.520 Apogee Cedar Park. Apogee. So then you've got the separate component, which is the boys

00:39:55.320 Apogee Strong. And so is that, do you see that being a recruitment source? Is that why you're doing

00:40:02.200 it? Like, how does that blend together? It's not recruitment. Um, what I know we'll find,

00:40:06.600 and this is by no means the motivation, the, like our drive is not to like go and recruit.

00:40:13.320 Sure. Right.

00:40:14.100 I have zero interest in that. If, if, if not one single boy that is an Apogee Strong and Apogee

00:40:18.880 Strong, I'll define that first. It's a mentor online mentor program that takes a bunch of successful

00:40:24.900 entrepreneurs and businessmen and soldiers from the special operations communities. Guys like

00:40:31.260 Sergeant major Matt Smith. He spent 25 years as a green beret working for the most specially elite

00:40:37.720 units on the planet, even outside of the green berets, like even, even like really cooler specialized

00:40:42.900 ones. And, uh, Jeff Teagues, who is a Delta four squadron commander and myself and Justin Lakin,

00:40:49.420 um, and Matt Bordeaux is, you know, a great friend and educator. So these men mentor this next

00:40:59.080 generation and some of those things are easy, like how to change a tire or, um, how to balance a

00:41:05.300 checkbook. We say easy, but, and it is easy, but it's increasingly less common that these young men

00:41:11.280 even know how to, like you said, change a tire. Yeah. Wait, how does this work now? Yeah. Crazy.

00:41:17.080 It is crazy. It's crazy, but it's real. And we, the initial goal was, Hey, we're going to be doing

00:41:21.800 these boys in high school ages. We're having young men and God bless them that they are by young men.

00:41:28.660 And I'm talking like 20 year olds and 30 year olds that are signing up for the mentor program

00:41:33.400 really because they know, and again, credit to them because they're self-aware enough to recognize

00:41:39.760 that they're missing some, I don't see manly components. Cause that's not what it is.

00:41:44.380 We're just trying to give them the tools to succeed in real life, not an academic life,

00:41:49.140 not in like make believe life, not in like video game life, but in real life.

00:41:53.240 Hmm. And so that's what Apogee strong is. And it's, it's a mentor program for boys,

00:41:58.860 high school years up into 30. Yeah. And, um, and if they go into the military and they become

00:42:07.040 great leaders and they go to West point or the Naval Academy or the Air Force Academy, amazing. Great.

00:42:11.180 Sure. Fantastic. If they go in, they start working for Dell or they start working for MIT or they start

00:42:17.020 designing something for NASA. Would I be more happy or less happy or equally happy? Yeah. I think

00:42:23.500 you'd be equally happy with whatever they decide to do, whatever they want to do, right? Their dreams

00:42:28.480 being realized. Yeah. You know, what's funny is you're not, you're talking about these young men

00:42:32.160 who at least have the awareness to try to find some, some help to get these skills. I actually have a

00:42:38.640 lot of women who listen to the podcast and they're raising boys on their own. Dad's not around.

00:42:43.540 He's hard picture. And I'm amazed at how often I get messages from women who say, I really like what

00:42:49.440 you're doing because I've got three boys at home and dad's not around. And I don't know what to do

00:42:53.200 with these boys. Like these, these young men need this outlet and multiple outlets to be able to get

00:42:59.540 these skills and mindsets that they're just not going to learn anywhere else. It's just not available

00:43:03.600 to them. Yeah. And they have to do it. Yeah. Um, before I went into the military, my dream was to be a,

00:43:08.940 a profiler for the FBI. Oh really? Yeah. I want to be Clarence Starling from silence. Yeah. That

00:43:14.640 was my dream. So I spent tons of time, like my, my undergraduate and then starting graduate school

00:43:19.000 was into forensic psychology. That's what I wanted to do. And so I got to interview a whole bunch. I'm

00:43:23.880 even guys from, from, uh, Charles Manson's team. I got to, to interview some people, one of which was,

00:43:30.800 was, uh, in the penitentiary in San Luis Obispo, California. So that was frightening. Wow.

00:43:35.000 But I got to interview and talk to these guys and, and, and I was, I was profiling, this was before

00:43:39.080 the active shooter thing started and looking at a lot of serial killers, you see, um, lack of father

00:43:45.380 figure in their life. And then you get to the current day active shooter, which is my opinion,

00:43:49.660 the current day serial killer. Sure. And then you look at them at once, right? Yeah. Mass, mass

00:43:55.960 casualties as quick as possible. And you see the same thing. You see a lack of masculinity. When I say

00:44:02.320 masculinity, not in the, I do think there is forms of toxic masculinity, but when I say masculinity,

00:44:07.740 I think it's a beautiful, compassionate, ethical, powerful thing that, um, that a man is supposed to

00:44:16.460 have. And when you're raising a young man, they're supposed to see examples of that. And when that's

00:44:22.280 missing, they don't know what to, they're going to have that in them anyways, but if it's not channeled

00:44:26.820 and directed properly, it becomes very dangerous. Sure. And especially when you try to medicate it,

00:44:33.300 or you're trying to direct it in unhealthy ways. And we don't know, like a lot of these drugs,

00:44:39.040 you know, you talk about going back to school and duct taping you, you know, you're not doing what

00:44:44.160 you're supposed to be doing. So let's duct tape you to the chair and then let's just pump you full

00:44:47.560 of medication to sedate you. But I don't think there's been enough research to really try to identify

00:44:53.760 what that does physiologically to a young man who may just have a lot of energy. There's nothing

00:45:00.420 mentally wrong with that individual. No, there's nothing wrong with me. There was nothing wrong

00:45:04.420 with me. There's nothing wrong with my son, but I'll tell you what. Is he like you? Oh my God. Yeah.

00:45:09.380 Yeah. Have you seen the last of the Mohicans? Yeah, of course. Do you remember the beginning

00:45:11.720 where they're playing lacrosse in the front yard? Yeah. And all of them were playing and yeah,

00:45:15.020 they were playing sticks that they had hand woven and the hair was down to their, but like,

00:45:18.900 like vascular veiny, muscly, just raw little wild. Yeah, man. If you, if you threw him outside right

00:45:28.300 now and, um, that's all he'd look like his in minutes, his hair would be matted with sweat and

00:45:33.740 he'd have bug bites all over his body. Cause he'd be crawling through an anthill and just to see what

00:45:39.100 happens and he'd be covered in mud and that's just a Thursday. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's

00:45:46.960 pretty, it's pretty fun to see. No, it's interesting to see the differences, just innate differences

00:45:51.640 between young men and young women. You know, we talked about the differences in our sons and

00:45:55.800 daughters and those are my sons. That's how they behave. That's my daughter. That's how she behaves.

00:46:02.260 Yeah. I didn't teach them. I didn't teach my daughter to be kind and loving and nurturing and

00:46:07.720 empathetic and to have dolls and build, you know, little bunk beds or, or, or cribs. I didn't teach her

00:46:12.980 how to do that. And I didn't teach my boys how to go out and be that wild man. Yeah. Nor do I

00:46:17.180 encourage either behavior. You know, it's like, okay, here's a fire truck for you, son. Merry

00:46:21.900 Christmas. This is a boy's toy. Yeah. Like they know. Here's your cute little doll that has like

00:46:26.720 a rainbow and a unicorn as her pet. You know, like there you go, little girl, there's your toy.

00:46:31.420 You know, like if you walk them into target and you walk down like the, the boy Avenger aisle with

00:46:36.520 Nerf guns, you know, the one year old's like, this is so stupid. You go two aisles over into like

00:46:44.080 the, the tea set thing. And she's like losing her mind and she's trying to grab everything off of

00:46:50.040 every one. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There was like, and all she has is a little brother to, to gauge that

00:46:57.940 off of. And she has zero interest. I'm not doing that. No, I don't want, this looks stupid. Yeah.

00:47:02.000 This is stupid. Oh boys. Like my, my daughter will say it boys. Oh boy. She's seven. You know,

00:47:06.900 cause she'll see how the boys interact. You said, uh, you were talking about toxic masculinity. I'm

00:47:11.280 really curious when you say you believe there are forms of toxic masculinity. I'd like to talk

00:47:15.700 about that a little bit. I, I, so a man that abuses his wife, like I was, first of all, I was like

00:47:22.660 a yank his balls out and shove them down his throat. I mean that, that, that violence and power and

00:47:29.540 strength. Those are forms of masculinity, right? Um, and directed in the right, in the positive,

00:47:36.260 in a just way, those are powerful tools for good. Yeah. I mean, I look at you, right? You have that,

00:47:41.120 you have that aggression, you have that ability to be dominant physicality of course, and it's

00:47:44.860 directed towards appropriate outcomes and pursuits. But if that is directed at the wrong thing,

00:47:50.520 like hurting somebody vulnerable than you or hurting somebody in a skin color that you don't like,

00:47:56.160 or making sure that that person in that religion that you don't like never gets the job opportunity

00:48:01.840 that they need, or, you know, like abusing your children, um, being a bully at school, like those

00:48:07.680 are all forms of, of toxic masculinity, right? But that same energy, that same power, that same

00:48:13.700 violence that's directed towards seeing something wrong happen, happening and intervening or walking

00:48:20.260 down the road. And a kid is walking across a crosswalk. Thank God for a man that can run up with

00:48:25.520 power, strength, yank that kid off the crosswalk, jump across as the car goes zooming by, you know,

00:48:31.260 like what, what a beautiful moment. And to watch something happen over this overseas to look at a

00:48:37.540 cliff and be like, we're going to climb this cliff. And then we're going to go stop the genocide

00:48:42.320 that's happening in inland, you know, or I'm going to run up this beach as I'm watching all of my

00:48:46.980 friends get murdered by machine. But they did that, right? That's masculinity. That's fighting

00:48:52.180 imperialism and not, and fascism, you know, like that's gorgeous. But if you, if they don't have

00:48:58.440 that, if they don't have that power, if they don't have that capability of violence and there's no

00:49:02.520 restraint that goes along with it, then they're neutered. They're not strong. They're not powerful.

00:49:06.660 They're not kind. They're not gentle. The only time that you can be gentle, kind, or strong

00:49:09.900 is when you have the capability to be otherwise. Sure. Right. Otherwise, like you just pat,

00:49:14.980 you're a passive wimp. Yeah. Right. You're nothing. Right. You can't do good. You can't stop the evil

00:49:20.180 that's happening. You could just stand there and watch it happen. And for evil to conquer,

00:49:24.720 all it takes is for good men to do nothing. And if we're making men that can't do anything,

00:49:30.540 evil will conquer. Sure. Evil will win. So we have to have men. We have to have strong,

00:49:36.840 courageous, powerful people, men and women that are going to look into the face of tyranny. They're

00:49:41.080 going to look into the face of all of the next. We don't know what the next is, but there's always

00:49:45.580 going to be something. There's going to be something. Sure. And I hope to God that their strength

00:49:49.420 present to be able to fight it. Otherwise, evil conquers. I like that you're talking about this

00:49:55.520 because I personally have been openly critical of the term toxic masculinity. And the reason I have,

00:50:00.540 and it's like I said, I appreciate what you're saying and bringing some context to this conversation

00:50:03.900 is because I think in a lot of cases and instances, and it seems to be increasing,

00:50:07.800 that the motives of using a term like that is to throw all masculinity under the bus or assume that

00:50:14.540 all men are the enemy, or we live in some sort of tyrannical patriarchy. And so it gets lumped

00:50:20.800 into this category or the words are being manipulated to paint a narrative that just isn't true.

00:50:26.860 And they do. And it's not true. But the only way that I want people like that to keep talking,

00:50:31.900 because the only way that you can fight bad ideas are with good ideas, right? So I want,

00:50:35.640 that's, that is not truth. Those are lies. Those are lies that are being perpetuated on

00:50:40.320 news networks and tweeting by some, you know, moms against blah, blah, blah, whatever.

00:50:45.260 Right. And they're using every single forum, every single route to get those lies out there. But

00:50:50.200 the only way that you can combat lies are with truth. And in this case, it's a subtle nuance,

00:50:54.700 the difference between masculinity, which is a beautiful, powerful thing that should be embraced

00:50:59.340 and should be encouraged and should be enhanced and enabled, right? Like,

00:51:04.600 have you seen a Golden Gate Bridge? Sure. It's pretty. Yeah, it's amazing.

00:51:07.740 Do you know how many people died building that? I have no idea.

00:51:11.320 Panama Canal. Seen it? Yeah. I haven't seen it. No, I haven't seen it in person.

00:51:15.200 The engineering, what an engineering feat. Amazing. Right? Connecting. Right. Worlds

00:51:19.320 with commerce. Do you know how many people died building that? I don't know. But plenty, I'm sure.

00:51:27.260 Yeah. Chrysler Building. Empire States Building. Like, all the sacrifices made to build these things.

00:51:34.180 Thousands of lives. Sure. Thousands of lives. Yeah. And those were men hanging off the sides of

00:51:38.920 scaffolding. Hundreds and thousands of feet in the air. Yeah. We need that. Yeah. We need a man to

00:51:46.600 climb a cliff. We need a man to run up a beach. You know, just like we need a woman to love and

00:51:51.920 with caring and kindness, nurture that man to do that. Feminity as beautiful. Of course.

00:52:00.920 As important. As necessary. And there are strong, powerful women that are destined to lead countries.

00:52:06.320 And I can't, I like, I've worked for some women like that and I've loved working for them. The way

00:52:10.980 they're a truly brilliant woman leader, the way that their mind works so different than mine. And

00:52:16.260 I'm like, Oh, I've never thought of that. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Yes. I can't. Yes, ma'am. I'll take

00:52:21.680 care of this right away. That's interesting. You know, you did say something and he's, and you said it

00:52:25.240 really briefly in passing, but I really appreciate what you said earlier when we were talking about

00:52:28.540 military service, you said, as long as the standard isn't reduced, that's where I have a little bit of

00:52:34.980 fear of that is because it's not fear that's, that's happened. Well, I'm not, I'm not saying

00:52:39.760 that I don't think it will happen. I'm saying that is when I say fear, what I'm saying is that

00:52:44.380 that's my concern is that the standard is lowered for based on gender. It's like, you know, if I'm in

00:52:50.420 a firefight or in a building, a burning building, for example, I don't care if it's a man or woman who

00:52:56.580 rescues me, I just want them to be able to be capable of doing so. And when the standard is

00:53:01.340 reduced, that's not as likely to happen. No, it's not. But there are different assets that

00:53:06.860 everybody brings to the table, right? Everybody has different assets, liabilities. And if, you know,

00:53:11.160 if I'm looking at a special forces ODA and I have 12 people in there and we're going to bring a girl

00:53:16.480 in there, does she need to be able to lift as much weight as me? No, not, probably not. If

00:53:22.920 depending on the situation, right. Should she, I think all standards should be the same, but she

00:53:28.000 brings assets that I don't bring to the table. She can go places and do things and communicate in

00:53:33.300 ways that I can't. Like you sent her and I into a bar and I need to, you know, honeypot you for some

00:53:39.640 information. I could spend years. Yeah. It's not going to happen. I'm sorry, Tim. This is not going

00:53:43.940 to happen. Yeah, but you look really good today. Are you originally from this area? Yeah. No,

00:53:47.860 are you going to be in town long? No, not, not interested. Okay, fine. No, screw off,

00:53:51.920 right? Yeah, of course. You have like two minutes and she's done. No, I got it. All right. He lives

00:53:56.240 here. This is what he does. Here's his pattern of life. Let's go do this. Yeah, no doubt. You got

00:54:00.340 a black bag? Yes, I do. You got a minivan? Yes, I do. This is going to be fun. But standards have to

00:54:07.260 remain the same because if you lower them, it not only devalues the accomplishment of that girl making

00:54:13.060 it to the team. Sure, of course. But it also weakens the collective ability of that unit. And when

00:54:20.300 you look at military forces that have had combined gender units, both female, male, and male and

00:54:28.460 female, it will use Israel specifically. So in like the metal tasks, the things that they have to do

00:54:35.620 for that unit that they consider must accomplish tasks. Minimum required, you got to do this.

00:54:40.700 Yep. This is a central task list, mission essential task list. So they gauged all three different

00:54:45.740 categories, all women group, all men group, and men and women group. So men, by far, under the metal

00:54:53.060 tasks, were able to accomplish these things at the highest rate of success. Got it. The next group

00:54:59.340 was the women only. And then third and lowest performing was the men and women. Interesting.

00:55:05.960 It is interesting. A lot of cool things happening there. There's a lot of reasons for both. But

00:55:10.340 if all that matters is success and lethality for a unit, why do the other two groups matter or exist?

00:55:19.620 Well, I think it's to make people feel good. That doesn't exist in my world. That's the dumbest

00:55:26.080 thing ever. It is. But I'm just saying, I think that's the reason we implement these things.

00:55:29.700 That is why we do it. We don't want people to feel bad, or we don't want people to be left out,

00:55:33.840 or we don't want this person to feel inferior. And that's why I think we incorporate some of these

00:55:38.160 things. But that isn't the purpose of the mission. It's not. Yeah. To me, all I see,

00:55:43.560 like all I see in the future, like I'm not a fortune teller. I'm not a precog. But I can look

00:55:48.300 forward and I can see us climbing under bridges in Baghdad and cutting down Americans that were

00:55:53.240 hung there after they were burnt alive because of failure of a unit to be able to accomplish their

00:55:59.280 mission. And so I don't care about the virtue signaling. I don't care about whatever cultural thing

00:56:05.940 is the new fad of the next administration. Administrations come and go. And the emotion

00:56:12.560 of society to see a Green Beret that is a female or a Ranger that is a female or a Navy SEAL that is

00:56:18.700 a female. I don't care. I don't care if they're gay. I don't care if they're black. I don't care

00:56:23.620 anything of that. I care about capability and lethality of that unit. Nothing else matters.

00:56:28.880 Why does this narrative get pushed? And also, how do we begin to paint the right narrative,

00:56:35.720 which is let's make sure the mission is accomplished. Let's make sure Americans are

00:56:39.820 safe and prosperous. Let's make sure we can keep the bad guys at bay.

00:56:43.780 Yeah. I mean, I just want to take all 350 million Americans and have them travel with me.

00:56:50.260 They need to see it and feel it, experience it firsthand. You're like, and when you can smell

00:56:54.800 it and you can smell it forever, you're like, you can smell the smell of a burning body for the rest

00:57:00.140 of your life. And you never forget it. And I want them to smell it. And they can shut their face about

00:57:09.520 what they think they want us to do. Do you think, what are you, what's your thought about some sort of

00:57:15.220 mandatory service or something like that? I don't like it. I want, I love that we have an

00:57:24.640 all volunteer military. And I think we have a more capable military than we have ever had in the

00:57:29.880 history of mankind. And, um, I would love that between, I don't know, 17 and 20, you have to do

00:57:40.160 something for your country, but military service can't be it. What do you think are the issues that

00:57:45.920 you might, that we might run across if that were the case, something like that? Well, one combat

00:57:49.960 arms has to be always volunteer. Um, having because of the difficulty or the demand or what is it

00:57:56.880 about having worked with conscripts, uh, abroad where people were forced into the military by their

00:58:03.240 government. And then me taking a machine gun and shooting at their feet, being like the bad guys are

00:58:08.260 that way. We have to go that way. And they're like, we're going, we're going this other way.

00:58:12.060 I'm like, they're going to kill you. They might kill you. I will kill you. You know, like you run

00:58:17.760 that way or I'm going to shoot you. Um, again, another opportunity where I wish I could just bring

00:58:23.800 350 million Americans to be like, here you go. You want to see this looks like it's really dark.

00:58:28.600 Well, and it takes a special kind of person. I mean, I, I've, I was in the military for a little bit

00:58:32.520 and obviously nothing to the degree that you are. And I've been able to talk with you and other guys who

00:58:37.320 are elite levels. And I mean, let's be honest, you guys are different, you know, like you got dark

00:58:44.240 humor, you got twisted humor and stories and, and your personalities are extreme. I mean, I'm

00:58:51.100 speaking in broad generalities, but I think that's a pretty safe thing to say. I have pretty accurate

00:58:55.460 representation. So, uh, yeah, I don't think you're going to get that from the majority of the

00:59:01.120 population. No, no. Cause everybody just wants to put their head on their pillow and just like,

00:59:05.040 none of this happens. And that's why I like having the volunteer service because when somebody

00:59:11.800 volunteers to go into the military and then they volunteer to be combat arms and they volunteer

00:59:16.380 to go to airborne school and they volunteer to go to special forces selection. And then they

00:59:19.900 volunteer to go to the ODA. Like I'm five volunteers in like, do you know what kind of person I have

00:59:25.840 there? Somebody who's really, really, that's a good word. Committed. They can really handle this.

00:59:31.640 And I'll take a committed malleable anybody over a forced perfect Adonis. You know, like if,

00:59:41.300 if I have the, the drive and the will to see something to the end, especially to that degree,

00:59:46.820 but then you're like, you, you could hand me that kind of fat. Um, and this never happens because by

00:59:54.600 that point, that person's already a shaped, you know, Hercules looking person. Of course.

00:59:58.280 But that person that has the thing in here, what was that? Um, Oh, it was captain America.

01:00:03.780 Remember they took the week. Right. And he jumped on top of that grenade and like,

01:00:08.020 that's the guy we want because it was in here. The strength was inside of here. I can teach anybody

01:00:13.500 to do this. You can mold all that other stuff. Yeah. I can teach people seven dash eight, you know,

01:00:17.540 like I can show them how to do combat arms, but like, I can't give you the will

01:00:21.900 to face the fear of war. Do you think we can create through fatherhood through mentorship

01:00:30.760 programs? Like you're doing with Apogee. Do you think you can create and foster that? Yes. More

01:00:35.820 in people? Absolutely. Or is that an innate thing when you're born? It is not born now. Maybe some

01:00:41.580 guys, like I'm not saying like Patton didn't drop out of that. Like it's like the uterus. Here we go

01:00:46.180 from the womb. All right. I'm going to go, I'm going to go conquer. Oh, General Rommel. You suck.

01:00:52.940 Let me show you how we do this. You know, like it's an environmental thing is what you're saying.

01:00:56.740 You look at, um, the Latrell brothers, you know, and you look at, um, guys that I grew up with in

01:01:03.220 San Luis Obispo County in like this really rural, um, kind of country folk area of California on the

01:01:09.340 coast. I can't tell you how many green berets came from this tiny little, from that tiny little,

01:01:14.580 cause it was like, like we were tough. We fought, we rode motorcycles, we hopped, we surfed, we swam

01:01:20.640 in the ocean and it was just like, we hunted. And it was just like normal. All of these things that

01:01:26.180 are extraordinary to other places. And this environment fostered, cultured these young men.

01:01:31.660 I didn't know any of these guys until we got here. And I'm like, Justin Lincoln. You're like,

01:01:34.580 really? You're from San Luis Obispo? Yeah, exactly. You know, Afshim Ariana? You're from here? You know,

01:01:38.760 like name after name after name of all of these guys. And we're like, we're one year apart in school,

01:01:43.440 or they're like just one school over. And, um, and it was just an environment that, that

01:01:48.720 it was curated. It wasn't curated, it was created to be able to. So yes, I know for a fact that you

01:01:55.840 can create leaders, that you can create, um, the will. With you and how many opportunities are

01:02:03.720 present, whether it's the school and, and these programs and courses that you run and sheepdog and

01:02:08.200 everything that you have going on, how do you take that level of busyness and then filter and decide,

01:02:13.960 this is worth my time and attention. This is worth my energy. This will move me closer to my mission,

01:02:19.540 what I want to accomplish. This won't, how do you measure all of that?

01:02:22.740 So the first thing is I take the mission and the end state. So I know what my mission is. And, um,

01:02:28.680 what is your mission to preserve and protect human life? And, um, so as a force multiplier,

01:02:38.020 if that's my mission, here's my end state, what are the things that I need to do? And how do I

01:02:42.600 spend my time and how do I allocate my time strategically to be able to make that mission

01:02:47.420 reach its end state, see it to fruition? So the lens that I view everything through

01:02:53.860 time is the commodity that I distribute into efforts to see that happen. Whether that's

01:03:01.140 sheepdog response, that's Apogee strong, that's Apogee Cedar park. All of my time is dedicated

01:03:08.280 to seeing that end state be realized. Are there things where you've gone down a path

01:03:15.560 because you've did this analysis and then realized, you know what? I got to back out from that because

01:03:21.480 that's not actually going to be the best use of my time. For sure. And how do you make those

01:03:25.260 decisions and how quickly and, or how much time and effort do you try to revitalize them? And you

01:03:30.840 know what I'm saying? Like, how do you decide on that? Yeah. So even in the military, we, we, we have

01:03:34.700 like, we have failure lines where like, if we have not accomplished this thing at this point, the cost

01:03:41.580 is going to be too much for us to try. And, um, again, the Titanic, when you look at that

01:03:49.060 iceberg in front of you and it's right there and you're like, turn the ship hard to port, you know,

01:03:55.580 like it's too late, right? You're still going to hit it. Right. So that point when, if you just use

01:04:01.740 that metaphor, if we look at the ocean, at what point, even dedicating 100% of time and commitment

01:04:07.260 at this line, I'm still going to hit that iceberg. It's still not going to generate the result that I

01:04:14.000 need. Okay. I'm going to move that line further. So then mentally, this is where my line is. Okay.

01:04:19.100 And if at this threshold, um, this amount of the commodity of time I'm dedicating and I can't

01:04:25.540 dedicate more, it doesn't give me the end result. I have to abandon. Do you feel like when that

01:04:30.480 situation arises that you failed and then how does that, how does that impact you psychologically?

01:04:36.840 Yeah. I failed this morning. I was doing cardio and I failed. I was trying to do this 5,000,

01:04:41.560 um, meters staying in a green heart rate. So 79% of my maximum heart rate. Right. And I was trying

01:04:49.860 to do it in a sub two minute. So if you go into the yellow 81%, um, you're failing, right? Cause

01:04:56.320 done. Cause that's not your objective. My objective was to stay at 79% or lower. So in that 5,000 meters,

01:05:03.060 I had 20 minutes to do it. Um, well, it took me 20 minutes and 38 seconds. And I was right at that

01:05:09.660 78, 79, 90% of the time, but I hit yellow twice. So man, mission fail. Sure. I'm going

01:05:20.320 to do it better next time. There's nothing wrong with failure. Failure provides an opportunity

01:05:24.960 for growth. So even we'll use exercise again. Like if I go, um, I just destroyed this knee.

01:05:32.420 I've seen that. Yeah. Kind of bummer. Um, I was going to say we should get a roll in,

01:05:36.320 but I'm like, no, I think he injured himself. So we're still good to roll. Yeah. I wish I would

01:05:40.200 have known that. Um, the, I should have known that actually, like I'll still roll. Yeah.

01:05:46.980 So I'm like setting new goals, bench press. I've never done bench press in my life. I have no idea

01:05:52.540 what my bench press is. So, okay. I want to have like a three 25 bench press. So I did a five rep max

01:05:58.860 last week and I jumped up a weight and then I failed. I was like, ah, that sucked. You know,

01:06:05.860 I was at whatever, three 55, three 65 for five RM. And, um, then I did it today.

01:06:14.220 A little, little humble brag. Yeah. But if I failed last week, could I have, if I didn't fail last

01:06:20.820 week, would I have been able to accomplish it today? No, of course not. No. So what's wrong with

01:06:24.920 failure? Hmm. Well, let me throw this out there because in this instance, you know, that impacts

01:06:31.480 you, right? I guess indirectly would affect other people. Cause you're worried about being strong

01:06:35.340 and your mission. I think where people get hung up with failure is if you let other people down,

01:06:41.380 like I don't put food on the table or I don't to going back to our earlier conversation about

01:06:45.760 starting a business. You know, if I leave my wife and children are depending on me, you know,

01:06:51.080 and there's some instances where actually failure is not an option. Yeah. Um, so I have seven

01:06:56.220 profitable, successful businesses right now. Um, do you not think I have failed at business?

01:07:01.740 Yeah, of course you have. Yeah, absolutely. I have like catastrophically humiliated myself and my,

01:07:07.380 my, my incredibly brilliant wife who's like, really, you're going to do what again with this

01:07:12.960 money? You know, I was like, Oh, it's going to work this time, this time. And, uh, so why does she

01:07:20.060 believe in you? That will that's in there. Like if, if I wasn't a 220 pound, hairy troll ogre that,

01:07:32.520 you know, you're going to blow up and, and even with a busted knee, you and your 19 friends are

01:07:37.500 going to have one hell of a fight on your hands. You're going to try to put me in the dirt, you

01:07:39.860 know? Um, because like, there's not a quit inside of here. She sees that she knows that, you know,

01:07:45.220 she's like, think about me coming home from fights, UFC main event fights. I can't imagine

01:07:51.740 that. I swung closed. I can't even move my hands because they're so swollen after hitting

01:07:56.060 Bisping for 25 minutes, 300 and something times, you know, and, um, or blowing my knee

01:08:03.280 out and having my eyes swung closed. And after fighting you all Romero, um, and she's like,

01:08:09.080 you know, do you want me to get you some Tylenol or like a bottle of bourbon, you know?

01:08:15.620 Yeah. Something, anything.

01:08:17.260 No, I want to feel every moment of this pain.

01:08:19.980 You like you, is that the right word? You like it or what?

01:08:23.500 Um, I need to know it and I need to remember it.

01:08:26.000 Hmm. So it pushes you to do something different next time.

01:08:29.480 Hmm. Like, I don't want to forget about failure. I don't want to dilute the pain of failure

01:08:34.780 failure and, you know, or even worse, like try to drink it away or take pills and, and, and, um,

01:08:46.540 I need the acute sharp suffering that goes along with a humiliating face of failure.

01:08:53.100 And if I could like, if I could bottle that, that drink that, because that is going to ensure

01:08:58.900 future success.

01:09:00.580 Interesting. What is it like getting into, into that ring? You know,

01:09:04.720 that's so foreign to me is like, I'm going to make a living in a career and in getting

01:09:09.580 in a, in a metal cage, almost naked with another man who wants to hurt you as bad as you want

01:09:15.700 to hurt him. What, why?

01:09:21.820 I don't know where, um,

01:09:26.320 I mean, I want to know where I fail. Am I the best? Am I not the best? Am I the strongest? Am I not the strongest? Am I the fastest? Am I the fastest? Am I not the fastest? These, these are questions that have been asked in my mankind since the beginning of mankind.

01:09:47.320 Of course. That's why we compete. Yeah. Yeah. Like why wouldn't we? And because of that competition, some of the greatest accomplishments in mankind, the arms race, as horrible as it was, it's pretty cool. Got us the MRI.

01:10:00.100 You know, um, do you think that our ability to record as we're doing right now, where did that come from? Right? Yeah. All of these things would have been diminished. Yeah, of course.

01:10:10.100 And, uh, radio communication and sonar, all of that came from competition, man competition to see who and what is going to be the predominant successful ideology.

01:10:23.720 So as simple as it is of who is the fastest person or who has the greatest ideas or what country is the greatest Greeks, Romans, um, Genghis Khan, here we are with an ever improving society.

01:10:37.160 And we wouldn't have that with competition. That's interesting on the individual and the collective. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, Tim, this has been fascinating. Fun. Yeah, for sure. I love asking these questions.

01:10:48.080 I mean, when I started this six years ago, just my desire to like sit down with guys like you and have these conversations and figure out what makes you tick. The whole goal is to make me and the people listening better. So you certainly give us a lot to think about.

01:11:00.840 I got a lot to think about. We all do. We need to think a little bit more and act a little bit more too. Yeah, for sure. All right, Tim, I know you're busy.

01:11:06.820 You're about to travel here, so we'll wrap it up. But again, thanks for the invite into your home. Thanks for sitting down with us. Appreciate you.

01:11:11.940 It's been a pleasure, man. All right. Take care.

01:11:14.560 Men, there you go. Mr. Tim Kennedy. I hope you enjoyed that one. I know that because I got to sit down with him at his home, he invited me to his home and introduced me to his family.

01:11:23.180 What an amazing opportunity and what an incredible man. If you're not following Tim or not connected with Tim or not learning from him, how to improve your ability to as his personal mission is to protect and preserve human life.

01:11:36.940 I think there's some opportunities for growth and expansion, not only for you, but for me as well. So connect with him, follow him on the, on the socials Instagram. He's very active on Facebook as well. Connect with him. Let him know what you thought about the show.

01:11:50.320 Let me know what you thought about the show and take a screenshot right now, actually, of you listening and share that on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, wherever you're doing the social media thing.

01:11:59.280 Uh, as I said, I got to sit down with him. So there is a video that accompanies this audio. If you're listening to this on a podcast player, if you head to youtube.com slash order of man, you can actually watch the video of Tim and I having this conversation.

01:12:13.160 So guys, if you would, on a parting note, make sure you check out the iron council. Again, we're talking about crafting the perfect day. So you can have maximum effectiveness and complete all the objectives you're after this year.

01:12:22.800 You can check that out at order of man.com slash iron council. And one other thing, I don't ask a whole lot, please. This information is free. It's available to you. All it takes is a little bit of time to listen.

01:12:34.060 Uh, but if you found any value at all in any point throughout your journey here with order of man, whether it's one week or one year or six years, please just go in, leave a rating and review on iTunes. Uh, let people know what you think about the show.

01:12:47.060 So believe it or not, that actually does go a very long way in bumping us up the charts, which isn't as important as making sure that more men hear the message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity.

01:12:57.140 So leave a rating review, screenshot it, share it with me on Instagram. Um, I'm very appreciative of those things. All right, guys, we'll let you get going. I will be back with Mr. Kip Sorenson for ask me anything tomorrow. And of course your Friday field notes on Friday, but until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:13:15.060 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 09, 2021

TIM KENNEDY ｜ To Protect and Preserve Human Life

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