Order of Man

00:00:00.000 Oh, well, you know, Joe Rogan has this podcast because of this, or that actor has this because

00:00:05.320 of that, or that athlete is so incredible, but he was just gifted that way. And I just think that's

00:00:12.360 setting yourself up for failure because if all, if everybody's success is dependent on their God

00:00:20.640 given gifts and talents, and you don't feel like you have any, then there's literally nothing you

00:00:26.520 can do to be successful in life. And what a horrible, horrible way to live your life. No

00:00:31.060 wonder men are depressed. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears

00:00:37.780 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time

00:00:43.940 you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:50.920 who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:00:56.520 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? Good to see you. Obviously I'm in a new

00:01:03.360 location today, but I'm, I'm in a Colorado Springs. I'm going to go visit in a couple hours,

00:01:08.420 John Eldridge and do a podcast with John. So I'm excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. What a stud.

00:01:14.420 Great books. Good person. Wild at heart transformed my life actually. And it's one of the things that

00:01:23.420 set me on the path for, uh, what we're doing here with order of man. I remember I was, I was actually

00:01:29.600 reading it in a plane. I can't remember where I was going and I fell asleep, but I put the book in

00:01:35.660 the pouch in the seat in front of me. And then when the plane landed, I got up, I was so enthralled by

00:01:40.680 this book. I got up and walked off the plane and deboarded and I realized, Oh, my books in there.

00:01:45.860 And I was so frustrated because of how much, uh, how excited and engaged I was in this book. So I

00:01:51.300 had to buy a new one and then I ended up having them on the podcast a couple of times. So it's

00:01:55.180 been pretty cool. How did you find out about that book? Do you remember? I don't know. I don't know.

00:02:01.940 I think maybe somebody recommended it to me. It seems like I get so many recommendations and I've read

00:02:09.520 so many books at this point. It's hard to know like where they came from. Why do you remember how you

00:02:13.440 got recommended to it? You, I I'll be honest. I, I don't hear nothing against the book and hopefully

00:02:20.160 this doesn't come across negative, but like I've heard you promote that book and I don't know if

00:02:25.880 I've ever heard anybody else ever promote that book. I've always heard it through you and or order

00:02:33.220 of man. I've never heard anybody reference the book outside of our community. Oh, that's so

00:02:37.980 interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It was funny because somebody had made a post in the Facebook group and

00:02:43.180 asked for book recommendations and it's always a little interesting to me. Everybody recommends

00:02:48.100 every book, but the two that this whole movement were founded on, but I'm going to give them the

00:02:53.100 benefit of the doubt and say they're, they're only doing that because it goes without saying they

00:02:57.420 should just read the books that we put together. But yeah, that, that book wild at heart comes up

00:03:02.280 often. I think probably part of the reason too, is it has a very, it has a Christian undertone to it,

00:03:09.180 which doesn't bother me as a believer, but I know there's a lot of guys who may choose not

00:03:13.060 to read it because of that. And I think if you're able to extract the practical wisdom and

00:03:19.000 application from the book, it's not really that big a deal, but some people I think make a bigger

00:03:23.540 deal out of it than they ought to. Yeah. I knew, I knew we had good alignment. Uh, before I ever

00:03:29.520 joined the iron council, um, I went to an uprising. I think it was the second uprising event that you

00:03:35.040 threw. That was the first time that I've quote unquote engaged, you're right with, with order of man,

00:03:41.240 other than listening to the podcast and, uh, you and Matt Harrington, you guys on our beds,

00:03:47.240 on our bunk beds, there were, there was a journal, um, there was a hat and then there was a copy of

00:03:53.920 as a man thinketh by James Allen. Oh yeah. That's another good one. That is probably one of my

00:03:59.300 all time favorite books. Like just the minute I saw that book, I thought, ah, I'm going to,

00:04:05.520 I'm going to get along with these guys really well. If, if that's cool. Yeah. If that's a giveaway book,

00:04:10.000 for sure. If that's their reading material. Well, the way you said it, you're like you and Matt

00:04:14.360 Harrington were sitting on my bed and I just had this like vision of just, just draped on when you

00:04:20.060 walk into your room or just like draped all over your bed. And I knew I belonged. And as a man thinketh

00:04:26.700 is covering the, uh, the sensitive parts, but everything else full nude, you're like, here you

00:04:33.580 go. Why don't you open this kid? I am. I'm envisioning a social media post from you. Ryan's

00:04:41.420 top, top, top five book recommendations. And it's as a man thinketh covering your junk and the rest of

00:04:46.900 you naked. It's going to be great. You should do that. Uh, all right. Well, on that note, let's,

00:04:55.160 uh, let's get into some questions today. Yeah. So we're going to fill the questions from the iron

00:04:59.500 council. Um, to learn more about the iron council, go to order man.com slash iron council. We're going

00:05:04.840 to be opening, uh, enrollment for Q2 in a roughly about like three days, uh, two to three days on the

00:05:12.880 15th of March. So 15th. And then on the 17th, we have a preview call. So if you go to the iron

00:05:22.220 council.com slash preview the night of the 17th at 8 PM Eastern, we have a preview call and we pull

00:05:28.540 back the curtain a little bit and let guys know what we're all about and give them a sneak peek

00:05:32.860 into what we're doing. So that way they're making informed decisions. Yeah. Yep. Excellent. All right.

00:05:38.540 So our first question, Alan Placer, this question rubbed me wrong. I'm going to see if this question

00:05:45.160 rubs you wrong or not. Not that Alan has a way of doing that sometimes to me too. And we banter a

00:05:51.840 bicker quite often. He's like, we're like an old married couple. Yeah. So good one, Alan. All right.

00:05:57.640 Alan Placer. Do you feel your kids are better off living in the current environment or if you guys

00:06:04.080 had played or, or if you guys had stayed married for the kids? Yeah. And I saw this question and

00:06:12.660 it's a little bit of, um, well, it's a hard one to answer. I also think it's a little bit of a false

00:06:17.680 dichotomy too. Um, I'll talk about it from the context of, of my specific situation. I can't say

00:06:25.260 they're better off. How, how could I say that? It's, it's not good for kids to be separated to

00:06:32.280 any degree from their mom or, or their dad. So the answer to that half of the question is no,

00:06:38.460 of course it's not ideal. Ideal would be, they'd be in a nuclear family. They'd be at home with mom

00:06:45.960 and dad. They'd have the influence and insight and wisdom and input from both parents working

00:06:51.960 together, communicating effectively, loving each other. I mean, that's ideal, right? We all know

00:06:56.380 that. Um, do, do I believe in the premise of staying together for the kids? I know that's not

00:07:03.440 the question he's asking, but that's the answer I'm going to give. Um, I, again, I don't think it

00:07:10.380 always comes down to that. I think there's ways to nurture a relationship that might have fractures and

00:07:17.560 ripples and frustrations and contentions. If both parties are working together and they decide,

00:07:23.840 Hey, you know what? We should work on staying together. And part of the reason we should do

00:07:29.180 that is because we have kids together. Yeah. So having kids together is a reason to stay together.

00:07:35.760 Is it enough? Not always. And it takes two parties to decide if they're going to engage to that degree

00:07:42.480 or not. But ideally, yes, kids would be at home with mom and dad. And I think there's a lot of

00:07:49.360 people who could probably work on their marriage who have simply resigned to staying together for

00:07:55.580 the kids. If you're going to stay together for the kids, go all in because it's also good for your

00:08:02.280 kids to see you having a difficult time in relationships and then mending the ruptures is

00:08:09.860 what I've heard it called. I had, um, Oh gosh, his name escapes me. John Kim. It's a John Kim.

00:08:18.280 Gosh, his name escapes me on the podcast. And he's a, uh, he's a relationship, uh, coach and a therapist.

00:08:25.900 And he said in, in a lot of, um, research that he's done, he's seen that relationships that have

00:08:34.700 ruptures in them where both parties are able to repair the ruptures end up being more fulfilling,

00:08:42.180 more long lasting and better off than relationships that don't have any of that fragmentation or,

00:08:49.680 uh, or that, um, confrontation or conflict like other relationships do. That's why I always get a

00:08:57.000 chuckle when I hear people say, Oh, I never fight with my wife. I don't, I can't even wrap my head around

00:09:03.640 that. Like, are you guys being honest with each other? That's what comes to mind for me. If you're

00:09:07.900 not fighting every once in a while or bickering or getting upset with each other, I'm not saying

00:09:12.560 go to blows by any means, but if you don't have conflict, I kind of believe that you're lying to

00:09:18.260 each other and you're trying to be what the other person wants you to be. And you're not even being

00:09:21.480 yourself or you're not addressing the things, right? You're just skirting around them. Yeah.

00:09:26.440 Yeah. Um, John Kim about two months ago. So John Kim, how a man leads in relationships

00:09:33.620 is the episode name. Yeah. So that that's how I'm going to choose to answer that question. Um,

00:09:39.880 it might be a little bit of a controversial one. Um, but again, staying together for the kids,

00:09:45.580 I think it's, I think it's got some validity based on the circumstances. And I also think there's

00:09:52.340 probably times where at least for me that there would be boundaries, uh, or hard stops in a

00:09:59.600 relationship. Um, for sure. Infidelity would be one of those things. Uh, and abuse. Uh, and I'm

00:10:08.340 talking about mostly physical abuse, you know, sexual abuse, like things like that, where that can't be

00:10:13.980 tolerated, but that's, that's mine. That's, those are my boundaries as far as like permanent end to the

00:10:20.000 relationship. But yeah, everybody has different boundaries. Yeah, totally. No, you answered it

00:10:25.080 exactly how I'd hope you would. I just, I can't stand this mentality. Right. And I'm not saying

00:10:30.780 Alan has this mentality, but I've heard this so many times, right? It's like, well, it's better off

00:10:34.940 that we're happy. You know, our kids are better off with two happy parents than us staying together.

00:10:39.620 And it's like, or what they deserve best is two happily married parents, right? This isn't,

00:10:46.320 you know, and, and translation all in that exactly what you said, whatever it is that you're about

00:10:52.640 that, that you're doing be all in and do it right. So if it's married, be all in, if it's in a job,

00:10:58.740 well, you know, is it better that I'm happy in my job or I'm stable for my family? Actually,

00:11:03.620 it's good to be all in at the job and be successful and happy. Right. And, and we create these false

00:11:10.640 false dichotomies to justify our lack of showing up in the thing that we're dealing with. So anyone

00:11:17.740 that's listening is like, Oh yeah, trust me, you're probably creating the false dichotomy

00:11:22.900 to justify how you're showing up in the marriage, how you're showing up in the job. Um, so then that

00:11:28.880 way you don't have to put the work into it. Well, I also think there's more important values than being

00:11:34.420 happy. And I, and I, I believe that this is one of the things that really separates men from boys.

00:11:40.880 Boys are very selfish. They're very short term, immediate gratification. A lot of men are that

00:11:45.520 way too, but those are immature men, I would call them. And they're seeking the next best thing.

00:11:51.280 They're always filtering their decisions through what's going to be best for me. How am I going to

00:11:56.460 be the happiest? Yeah. Right. But there's a couple of things that come to mind right off the bat. I

00:12:02.140 think honor is more important than happiness. I think duty and responsibility are more important than

00:12:07.920 happiness. And I also think that my goal is not really to be happy. The way I view happiness is

00:12:15.420 this absence of conflict or strife. You know, you, you retire for example, and you sit on the beach

00:12:24.520 and you're sipping my ties and you're just enjoying the sun and your vacation. And I could be happy in

00:12:31.040 that moment for a while for sure. But I choose to pursue fulfillment, which is not the absence of

00:12:37.580 struggle and conflict, but the ability to engage in meaningful struggle and then making yourself

00:12:44.860 capable of handling it the way that a virtuous man would. Yeah, totally. Totally. And in those moments,

00:12:52.040 we can be happy with ourselves. We can be happy around other people, but it's a little different.

00:12:56.780 And it might be semantics, but I think it's important people understand the distinction

00:13:01.400 from where I see it. Yeah. I always love the phrase, a life of fulfillment, meaning, and purpose.

00:13:07.640 And sometimes that looks hard. It looks kind of miserable sometimes with moments of happiness and

00:13:15.660 bliss. Right. And, but it, it comes with a life of minimal regret. Yeah. Well, I was even thinking

00:13:24.100 about this and again, I'm in Colorado Springs today and I'm leaving tomorrow morning and I came in last

00:13:29.440 night late. So it's a very quick trip and I don't particularly enjoy the travel process. I get

00:13:34.560 stressed out when I have to pack and I get irritable, like trying to figure out all the things I need.

00:13:40.300 It's not enjoyable to me. And then traveling and sitting in the airport. I mean, I don't know that

00:13:44.360 there's many people that do like it, but I do it because it's part of the mission. And it's what the

00:13:51.340 mission of order of man requires of me. So I do it not because it makes me happy, but because there's

00:13:59.040 a sense of duty and obligation to it. Yeah. Love it. Jeremy Kofi, what's something you see men

00:14:06.740 overcomplicating that actually has a simple solution? Oh, exercise and, and nutrition.

00:14:14.380 Nutrition. That's easy. Like it is, it is amazing to me how complex we have made nutrition. Like

00:14:22.160 it's, it's easy. Eat your body weight in grams, your ideal body weight in grams of protein.

00:14:30.080 Eat a cup of vegetables and a cup of rice and drink two times your body weight. No, excuse me.

00:14:37.160 Uh, half your body weight in ounces per day of water, of water. Yeah. Yeah. Not a like whiskey

00:14:45.920 or something, but water. Um, and that's it. Like there's no, you don't need to do the vegan

00:14:56.020 diet, the carnivore, the paleo, the, this, the, that. No, it's just three round meals, maybe

00:15:01.040 five, depending on your metabolism and the things that you're doing. And you might tweak and adjust

00:15:06.320 that based on different events that you have coming up. Um, and then, and then exercise,

00:15:11.140 I mean, go to the gym and just look at what people are doing. They're there and I'll give

00:15:15.300 them credit for that. But some of the things that people do with regards to their exercise,

00:15:19.620 just go lift heavy. That's it. Just lift as heavy as you can get really good at bench squat,

00:15:27.520 deadlift, pull-ups, um, maybe some ab exercises in there and then put in some accessory work along

00:15:34.300 with it. If you want to be a runner, I've been running more. I actually went on a run this

00:15:38.520 morning. It was cool. I went, so I went on a run around this neighborhood and the road I'm on is

00:15:44.120 called mule deer trail or something. And I'm like, Oh, that's a cool name. And I'm running up the road

00:15:48.900 and I see five massive mule deer, three bucks, two does, two of them were one in particular was

00:15:56.900 incredible. He's a huge buck. Um, anyways, I got off on a tangent when it comes to like hunting and

00:16:02.980 animals for a second, but yeah, I just went on a run for this morning. Like that's it. Just do

00:16:07.560 what you want to be good at. And that's easy. But I do have another one. Cause maybe those are

00:16:12.360 throwaways nutrition and, and, but I think the other one is communication. I think we as men have

00:16:19.920 such a difficult time with just being straightforward, expressing ourselves, telling people how we feel in

00:16:28.300 a respectful way. We're trying to game it. We're trying to read other people, manipulate other

00:16:34.080 people, withhold information. You even see this in the space of these guys who are like the pickup

00:16:39.760 artist guys about how you're supposed to, uh, bring scarcity to this so that a woman finds you more

00:16:47.880 attractive. And if you treat her like crap, then she'll be more attracted to you. I'm like, this

00:16:52.060 stuff is nonsense to me. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I, I put it all out there and you can

00:16:59.440 take it or you can leave it. And I'd rather know early, especially in a relationship. If you don't

00:17:03.980 like what I have to say, or you don't like my opinions or you don't like how I communicate,

00:17:07.960 I want to know that soon. But I will say with communication, there's one other thing that a man

00:17:12.580 needs to learn to do really well is don't complain. You can be upset about things. You can have

00:17:18.140 frustrations about things. Um, and there might be a time and a place to express some of those in

00:17:24.480 certain environments, but for the most part, anytime you're upset about a thing, you should

00:17:29.420 always have something that you're working on and be able to communicate that with the other party.

00:17:34.160 So if it's your romantic partner and you're frustrated about, um, your lack of, of physical

00:17:42.500 connection lately, then you should be able to communicate that with your partner and say,

00:17:47.620 but here's what I propose. Here's what I'd like to do, or here's how I'd like to engage.

00:17:52.320 Um, if, if you're at work and it's not going well at work, instead of just coming to your,

00:17:56.980 your supervisor or your boss and say, Hey, this isn't working because X, Y, and Z.

00:18:01.100 I think that's appropriate as a boss. I would want to know why it's not working,

00:18:04.860 but then come to me with also solutions. Hey, Ryan, this is not working because of X,

00:18:09.940 Y, and Z. And what I propose is to do a, B and C. So as a man, I just don't think that you

00:18:15.940 should be crying and complaining and bickering and moaning without at least having some idea

00:18:22.740 of what you want to do. And you know, one, one other thing on that, a lot of guys have

00:18:27.700 said in the past when I say, Hey, give me like, what's your idea? I've heard a lot of guys say,

00:18:32.140 well, if you knew what to do, you wouldn't be asking the question.

00:18:35.480 And I actually don't think that's true at all. I think there's things that he's tried. I think

00:18:41.900 there's things that are already probably going through his mind. I think what most people are

00:18:46.480 looking for, maybe not most, but a lot of people are looking for when they're asking for advice

00:18:52.340 is they're looking for validation for their poor performance or, or am I doing the right thing?

00:18:58.540 And I'm not saying that's bad necessarily, but, um, I think that you ought to always look for

00:19:05.400 paths forward, even if you don't entirely know what they are. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny

00:19:11.000 when I read this question, the first thing that crossed my mind was, is just how we overcomplicate

00:19:17.360 situations by doubling down on all the things that are outside of our realm of control versus

00:19:24.520 identifying the things within our control. Like that's where I see like, well, any upset,

00:19:30.580 like pick any scenario by which you're not liking how it's going. And the average person will tell

00:19:36.040 you all the things that are outside their control, but what they won't tell you are all the things

00:19:41.460 that they can control, but they've chose to overlook because they would rather have this

00:19:46.820 elaborate issue that they can't deal with, that they get a complaint about versus getting to the

00:19:53.240 thing that they can do something about. And I, and I see it as an overcomplication of this scenario,

00:19:58.440 which what does it do? Causes us not to communicate. Why? Well, there's nothing for

00:20:03.540 me to communicate, Ryan. I'm not the problem. They are right. And so I, I stole a wall. Yeah.

00:20:08.640 I'll hold it in and then I'll just bitch moan and complain about the circumstance because obviously

00:20:13.920 there's nothing for me to do. And we do it all the time. Right. And anyone listening, it's like,

00:20:20.100 oh, I don't do that. It's like, okay, well, let me, let me point out the areas by which you can,

00:20:24.240 you're probably doing it. Any area of your life that you have an upset where you're waiting and

00:20:29.260 hoping for someone else to do something, where you're allocating blame, where you have a story

00:20:36.340 around why you're not doing what you're doing is because of X, Y, Z and where you're not self

00:20:42.080 evaluating around your role in it. And right now, like, even though I'm fully aware of this for myself,

00:20:49.560 I could tell you a handful of things that I know I am being somewhat of a victim around.

00:20:56.220 It's crazy. And we do it all the time and it's highly disempowering.

00:21:01.660 There's another area I've seen people do this and it's, um, you gave those couple of examples.

00:21:07.780 One example I had is when you're discounting people's success, people will do that all the

00:21:13.920 time. Like, oh man, you know, Kip is so successful in business, but I'd be successful too. If I had

00:21:20.800 X, Y, and Z or dairy farm in Elsinore, Utah. Right. And I had this, these devilishly good looks

00:21:27.440 and I've had the perfect ability to communicate. None of which are true, but if I saw Ryan naked with

00:21:33.760 a book, I would have also been successful. But that is what people do though. They always do that.

00:21:41.760 Totally. Oh, well, you know, Joe Rogan has this podcast because of this, or that actor has this

00:21:47.440 because of that, or that athlete is so incredible, but he was just gifted that way. And I just think

00:21:54.360 that's setting yourself up for failure because if all, if everybody's success is dependent on

00:22:02.520 their God given gifts and talents and you don't feel like you have any, then there's literally

00:22:08.300 nothing you can do to be successful in life. Yeah. And what a horrible, horrible way to live your

00:22:13.060 life. No wonder men are depressed. Yep. And this is why, this is why they do it. So then that way I'm

00:22:19.560 not held accountable for my shitty life. It's like, you know, I got dealt the bad cards, Ryan.

00:22:24.360 It's not my fault. You know, I just wasn't lucky enough.

00:22:28.740 I like what you said though, about elaborate excuses that that's, that's actually really

00:22:33.900 good. I wrote that down. Cause there are, there's just these elaborate sophisticated

00:22:38.000 and they sound pretty good. And you know, you know, you actually want to know why they sound good

00:22:43.580 is because when we lie to ourselves or to other people, there's always a little tinge of truth

00:22:49.480 and there, there has to be, there has to be a little bit of truth because if there wasn't any

00:22:55.320 truth, everybody, including yourself would spot the lie immediately. So what we do is we conflate

00:23:00.700 a little bit of truth with the fiction and then we paint it all as fictional or factual, I guess I

00:23:10.700 should say. Yeah. I had this, it's been years. It was probably about, I don't know, maybe even like

00:23:17.180 18 years ago. Um, I was, I was taking this course and, and I don't remember, I don't remember the way

00:23:24.900 the facilitator got us into this, you know, conversation, but it was so powerful. And I,

00:23:30.560 eventually you end up writing your story, your sob story. Right. And, and I, I had a good one,

00:23:37.520 right? Like it was solid, you know, woe is me. I was raised this way and my parents this,

00:23:43.100 and I didn't have opportunity. You know what I mean? It was like this two page, like dramatized

00:23:48.300 story that was like this big badge that I used, you know, to justify my existence in the world.

00:23:55.460 And you, so you write this whole thing down and then they break you up and they're like, all right,

00:23:59.380 now read it out loud to someone else. And you read it out loud to them like 20 times.

00:24:09.400 Right. And as you can imagine what happens around the 20th time, you're like, this is pathetic,

00:24:14.760 right? Like you start, like, you're really embarrassed, you know, you're like, this is so,

00:24:20.580 like, so dramatized. It was such a great experience. Cause you realize like, man, this is just all

00:24:26.380 just drama that you've held on to, you know, it was good. It is. Yeah. That's, that's a good

00:24:33.380 exercise actually. Yeah. All right. All right. What's next? Robbie Leffel. Are you currently on

00:24:39.960 a battle team? Do you have a battle plan? Do you have an old version, old vision you're still working

00:24:45.900 off of, or have you written it recently? I'm curious how the leaders of the IC participate

00:24:51.220 in the iron council outside of your leadership and ownership roles. So kind of like a little bit of

00:24:57.180 inside of the leadership of the iron council. Yeah. I I'm on a battle team. So battle team

00:25:03.480 appella. And if guys are listening, they might say, what's a battle team. So what we do inside the

00:25:07.580 council, because there's 1100 men, when we started to get bigger, it lost some of the intimacy and

00:25:15.560 accountability that we're trying to build into our programs. So we decided, okay, we'll create these

00:25:20.500 battle teams. And these are teams of anywhere from 10 to 12 to 15 guys who are all working

00:25:25.740 together to refine their battle plans, hold each other accountable, call, check in on each other,

00:25:32.160 share stories, share insights, learn from each other, push, et cetera. So yes, I am. And you are

00:25:37.620 to keep on a battle plan, a battle team. It's called battle team appella. And we operate that very much

00:25:43.240 like another battle team. There is a little bit of difference because we talk about iron council

00:25:47.560 related directives and leadership, things like that. But outside of that, yeah. And I talk with

00:25:53.360 you and Jay and Alan and all these guys, Wayne and Gatch and drew, um, on a, on a weekly basis,

00:25:59.480 some of it's personal and some of it's professional, just based on what's going on or what we're doing,

00:26:04.200 what we're doing. But every single one of us operate just like a traditional battle team would.

00:26:09.680 So we all have our battle plans. Um, we submit those to each other. We hold each other accountable.

00:26:14.760 We ask how they're going. We're asked where the hangups are. Um, we have a couple of guys on the

00:26:19.820 team now who are dealing with personal struggles, nothing major, but you know, there's, I just like

00:26:25.980 I do now and then life. And so, yeah, so it operates. There's not really much more to it. I mean,

00:26:32.760 we operate it just like a battle team. Uh, as far as let's see, what was the other question?

00:26:37.420 Have I worked a new vision? Yeah. Yeah. Or are you working off of something old? Yeah. Or rewritten it

00:26:42.620 recently? No. So I, I go through it every quarter because that's when I do my planning

00:26:47.700 and I usually, I would say 90 to 95% of my vision stays about the same, but based on external

00:26:54.740 circumstances or changes in my life or responses that I need to make in relationships that I have,

00:27:01.800 that vision will change over time slightly, but it's never, it's never drastic. Um, I, I do,

00:27:08.480 I do like to refresh it because for me it becomes a little mundane over time and, and monotonous and

00:27:16.980 what ends up happening when it is a monotonous plan is it's just not as emotionally compelling

00:27:21.800 and it doesn't push me anyways forward. Like maybe it once did. So it's good for me to do a

00:27:28.180 refresh, to use some different verbiage, to, um, take new experiences I've learned in life or in the

00:27:33.520 last quarter, adopt and embrace those into my back into my vision. So yeah, I look at that every

00:27:39.680 single quarter. I'm not asking guys to do anything that, that I don't do. You know, I, I think that

00:27:45.420 would be unreasonable and I have in the past, just like we all have, maybe even a little hypocritical

00:27:50.500 at times, but, um, yeah, I'm, I'm working the plan just like you guys are. Love it. Okay. Jake Thompson,

00:27:59.020 would love to hear any advice you have for new supervisors or managers. I've been recently

00:28:04.960 promoted and will now be leading my former peers for context. None of them applied for the position

00:28:11.140 and they were involved in the decision to promote me. So I don't expect that there'll be any, uh,

00:28:17.120 issues of me getting promoted over them. Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, congratulations,

00:28:24.200 that's important. And also I commend you for what you're saying about, um, not being any issues and

00:28:30.940 looking at it like that. I would still say that even, even in you saying that leads me to believe

00:28:37.720 that you're thinking that there might be issues. Yeah. And I think you should get that out of your head

00:28:44.000 because if you want to find a problem or if you, excuse me, if you think there's a problem,

00:28:52.180 you will find a problem. Hmm. So if in your mind, like, Oh, this is going to be hard evidence.

00:28:57.740 There's going to be challenges. There's going to be people who are giving me pushback. They're

00:29:01.880 going to be people who don't like my leadership style. You're going to start poking at people

00:29:06.000 looking for the reasons why what you're saying is coming true. And it's, I'm not asking you to be

00:29:14.680 oblivious to what's going on, but don't set yourself up for that. But, but what I would say

00:29:20.000 is as a leader and someone who has been led by other people, the greatest leaders that I've ever

00:29:27.720 had are the ones that are humble and are the ones who continue to involve me, their team member,

00:29:37.340 their lower down line. I don't know what you want to call their employee, like whatever you want to

00:29:40.760 call it. They continue to include me in the process and they know they don't have it figured out.

00:29:46.280 And so leadership from, from where I see it anyways, is not that you are out in front of

00:29:55.260 every, everybody all the time and you have to do it and you have to know better than everybody else.

00:29:59.540 No, as a leader, your job is just to make sure the initiatives get done. Yeah. You just have to

00:30:06.540 make sure it gets done. And that requires you being a team player. It requires you asking for advice

00:30:13.220 from your team members when you don't know, or even if you do know still at the asking for advice and

00:30:18.240 input. I mean, ultimately you have to make the decisions as the supervisor in your position,

00:30:22.980 but I think the more that you can involve other people, um, your, your, your former peers,

00:30:30.480 the better off that, that you're going to be. And that's what I would suggest is just keep them

00:30:35.780 involved in the process. Um, there's a quote here that I've found that I really like leadership is

00:30:44.100 not about being in charge. It is about taking care of those in your charge. And that's from

00:30:50.780 Simon Sinek. So you are not in charge. Your responsibility now is to take care of those

00:30:56.300 people and to serve those people. And then obviously serve the business and your employer

00:31:00.360 and your clients. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I mean, the thing I wrote down was you got to shift

00:31:07.280 your, your focus originally as an individual contributor was the work getting done and you

00:31:16.160 have by you, you have to shift on the mindset of serving them to get the work done. Right. And

00:31:26.180 your sole role is to help them win. And winning is obviously sometimes you having difficult

00:31:32.420 conversations with them and making sure that they're being successful and all those other

00:31:36.020 things. But, but if I had to paraphrase it, your team needs to know that you're there to

00:31:42.700 ultimately help them win. And if they see you that way, then, then it's like, it doesn't matter.

00:31:49.220 Like you can be humble. You can be, you're the guy that's, that's there to help them get

00:31:55.900 through the struggles, help them navigate difficulty so they can be successful. And

00:32:01.280 you need them to know that and understand that that's your role. Until then it's now

00:32:06.580 you just flexing authority. It will be perceived as manipulation or something else. And so move

00:32:12.280 to that as, as soon as possible. And leaders, that's good. Yeah, good.

00:32:19.460 Well, I was just going to say one other thing that was interesting in here is it sounds like

00:32:22.800 his peers had a hand or at least some say in the decision-making process of who should be promoted,

00:32:28.460 which I think is cool. That's a great testament to how they feel about you.

00:32:32.300 Totally. If I were in your shoes, I would ask them if Kip, I knew that you had something to do

00:32:36.900 with my promotion. I would say, Hey Kip, I, well, first of all, I want to thank you for the support

00:32:42.520 and the belief in me. I don't know that I deserve it, but for some reason you feel like there's

00:32:47.060 something and I want to be a good leader. I want to be good in this position. I want all of us to

00:32:51.840 win. Do you mind sharing with me why you decided to throw your support behind me and let them tell

00:33:01.420 you what they're going to tell you what they want from you. And then you might even say that here's

00:33:05.520 another question, man, that's really good feedback. Thank you for that. Is there anything when you were

00:33:10.600 considering throwing your support behind me? That was maybe a bit of a red flag or you had some

00:33:16.740 concerns with, and you might say, well, you're a hard worker, but you don't communicate really all

00:33:21.800 that well. Okay. Well, I need to know that because I want to make sure I communicate with you guys.

00:33:24.940 Well, so I think if you ask your guys, those two questions, whether they threw their support behind

00:33:29.600 you or not, that actually would be pretty insightful. I would think. Totally. Yeah. I think the more you

00:33:35.640 can get to the perspective of meeting with every team member and saying, Hey, are you loving the job?

00:33:42.280 How are you feeling about things? Are you excited about being here? You know, get, get to the point

00:33:48.160 of the discussion where you're just getting clear on their job love. If you want to use that term

00:33:52.620 and then say, what's your primary objectives and what are the number one things that are blocking you

00:33:58.200 from being successful? And how can I help you do that with every single team member? They're like,

00:34:03.660 walk way out of that meeting going, got it. Ryan's got my back. Right. His focus isn't about

00:34:09.560 telling me what to do. He's asking what he can do for me. Yeah. Good stuff. Just make sure when you

00:34:16.220 do that, that you, you maintain the consistency in doing that because it's easy to be really excited

00:34:22.180 about your new position. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, there's a lot of performative stuff and that

00:34:28.320 I've seen people do where they're the new leader and they're like, I'm going to ask these questions and

00:34:32.280 it's not real sincere and it burns out within a matter of days, if not weeks. Yeah. So if you

00:34:37.600 are going to ask those questions and talk to your people like that, which I suggest that you do

00:34:41.700 make sure it's not a one-time thing, make sure that you're continually checking in on them and

00:34:46.580 following up with them and outside of the scope of the work they're doing. Yeah. Love it. Gavin,

00:34:52.120 uh, Misserly as stepfathers, we often find ourselves in the shadows of bio dads, whether

00:34:59.840 or not they're a cousin in their lives while walking the line of holding him accountable

00:35:04.640 and trying not to rock the boat and avoiding the dreaded words of you're not my dad. I find

00:35:10.640 it difficult to connect on a subsurface level. I've recently come to the conclusion that living

00:35:15.800 by example is likely the best way. Let me, let him see me working out, exhibit, controlling

00:35:21.960 my temper and emotions, show him how he should treat a woman by loving his mom to the best

00:35:27.080 of my abilities. Is this enough? Or is there something else I could or should do?

00:35:33.540 I don't think living by examples enough. I used to think that I used to be one of those guys

00:35:38.960 that would always say, Oh, just be the example, be the example, be the example. That's crucial.

00:35:43.940 But especially with kit, not just kids, everybody, they're making connections about your behavior

00:35:51.300 that you're not even aware of. And they have no idea why you're doing a certain thing unless

00:35:56.600 you communicate it with them. So when you're loving on his mom, it's important for you to say, Hey,

00:36:04.620 I love you guys. You know, maybe you're sitting at dinner and you say, Hey, I just want you guys

00:36:09.440 to know. I love you guys. Like I love these moments, this time together. And I don't know

00:36:13.800 if you know, but I really love your mom because of these three things. We, this goes back to

00:36:19.380 communication. You have to communicate it. Or when you're having to, um, instill some discipline,

00:36:26.200 you know, maybe, maybe he did something he shouldn't have done, or maybe he yelled at mom or

00:36:30.460 whatever it may be. You know, you can't just punish the kid. You have to explain why

00:36:35.040 you're doing this out of a love and care for him. And there's another thing. And I'm not,

00:36:43.000 I I'm not in this boat. I've, I've not been a stepdad, so I don't know, but I have been a stepson

00:36:49.480 and it can be a real challenge. One of the things I learned early in my retail sales career is that

00:36:57.820 anytime you perceive or think there might be an objection, just bring it up. Yeah. Just bring it

00:37:03.140 up first. So how do you diffuse that? You're not my dad by saying, Hey, look, I know this is a hard

00:37:09.800 thing for us. And I know I'm not your father. And that can be hard for you because you might feel a

00:37:15.560 disconnect between the way that I have to raise you as your stepfather and the way that maybe your dad

00:37:22.100 raises you or doesn't raise you or the way that you feel about him. And I want you to know, I really

00:37:27.540 value the relationship that you have with your father. I think that's important. I'm not here to

00:37:33.340 replace. I'm here to add to, and everything that I do comes from a place of love. When you start

00:37:39.120 having those conversations and you just bring it up first, how can the kids say, well, you're not my

00:37:43.300 dad. I mean, I know I just literally just said, I'm not your dad. So you can diffuse that by bringing

00:37:49.680 these concerns up ahead of time and then explaining in a rational, loving, kind way where you're coming

00:37:58.820 from. Cause obviously just by the nature of you asking this question, you really care about him.

00:38:03.560 You love him. You love his mom and you want this to be a successful family dynamic. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:11.240 Contrasting is what they call that. It's, that's a powerful concept for every different conversation.

00:38:15.840 When you bring up an objection. Yeah. Contrasting. Really? Yeah. So if I'm going to have a difficult

00:38:20.380 conversation with you and I'm afraid that you're going to, let's say, emotionally react in a negative

00:38:25.440 way, then that's how I start off the conversation. Hey, Ryan, here's the intent of the conversation.

00:38:32.020 Where I don't want it to go is my fear is that you will perceive this as me not caring or whatever,

00:38:39.080 and you just address it immediately. Right. And you just address the contrasting issue.

00:38:45.840 Up front, right. To help mitigate the issue from occurring. So there was a podcast I did with

00:38:53.120 a trial. I think he's a trial attorney, but he's, he's focused on communication. His name is Jefferson

00:38:59.380 Fisher. And he talks, he talks about this when you have to have a difficult conversation. The example

00:39:05.560 we were using, if I remember correctly, was something at work, having to let somebody go. And so if you

00:39:10.740 bring them into the office, you got to give them a chance to process it, but you have to do it

00:39:15.240 honestly. So if I brought you in, I might say, Kip, this is not going to be a comfortable conversation

00:39:21.300 for either of us. It's going to be uncomfortable and it's going to be challenging. And I just want

00:39:27.120 you to know ahead of time, but I also want to have a level of respect towards each other as we have

00:39:31.100 this conversation. Like give that person a little, a little bit of like, okay, brace yourself.

00:39:38.820 Like, and, and then you say, Hey, we have to let you go or, or whatever the situation is.

00:39:44.960 Um, because what most people will do is they'll say, so Kip, like, how you been? How's your family?

00:39:50.880 How's your family? Oh, good. Your wife's good. Oh, your kids are good. Oh, you just, uh, you just

00:39:55.380 put in a new pool. Oh man, that must've been expensive. That's awesome. Great job. By the way,

00:39:59.960 you're fired. But, but, and then on the tail end, it's like, but we really appreciate you and you're

00:40:07.380 a good person. Like, don't, don't do that to people, dude. Just be honest. Well, and the sandwich

00:40:14.520 and the old school sandwich, that's right. It does. Yeah. People, people end up leaving and they're

00:40:20.700 like, I'm not sure if I got promoted or I got fired. Right. Because like he was telling me all

00:40:26.440 these wonderful things I'm doing, but then he said terminated as well. And then was like,

00:40:31.000 really grateful that I was there. I'm confused. Right. Yeah. But I think the same thing as you do,

00:40:39.320 you can do the same thing with kids, you know, like I've done that with my kids. Hey, I have to

00:40:43.660 have a serious conversation with you guys about something. Nobody's in trouble, but we need to

00:40:48.120 come to some agreements about the way that we treat each other. We did this just a couple of weeks ago,

00:40:51.800 some agreements about the way we've been treating each other in the house. Totally. Well, and what's great

00:40:56.060 about this is you can, certain kids will appreciate this more than other kids. I was the kind of kid

00:41:02.140 that would appreciate this by the way. And I have one daughter that operates this way, but if I know

00:41:08.220 something's coming, like literally yesterday, I did this with her. I grabbed her, my other daughter,

00:41:12.940 I pulled him in the room and said, Hey guys, I want to be really clear. Mom's going to have you go to

00:41:17.660 that event tonight. You might as well start processing it now and get okay with it.

00:41:25.560 And don't get sideways when she brings it up later. And they're like, okay. And then they

00:41:32.220 had four hours. Right. And so mom's like, let's go to that thing. And they're like, okay, but mark

00:41:37.400 my word. If I didn't prep them, do we have to meltdowns? I'm like, give them a heads up,

00:41:44.960 give them some time. You know what I mean? To, to deal with it. Uh, and they'll do a much better job.

00:41:50.540 I have something for Gavin, if you don't mind Gavin. And there's a, there's one of my favorite

00:41:56.440 books in regards to relationship with it. It played a pivotal part in my relationship with my

00:42:03.120 son, my stepson. And, and it's the book, uh, called the anatomy of peace by Arbinger Institute.

00:42:11.940 And it was a great book. It was critical. And let me just summarize my biggest takeaway from that book.

00:42:20.120 It is that I am in zero position to coach him or correct him until I'm in a position of influence.

00:42:30.000 How do I get myself in a position of influence? Number one, I have to see him as whole and

00:42:38.960 complete, love him where he is, separate him from his actions. Number two, I have to establish a

00:42:49.880 relationship with him. I have to have a relationship with him, which means we can go over to that. Like,

00:42:55.900 how do I do that? Well, it's spending time with them and getting to know them and all those

00:42:59.900 other things. Then I need to be in a relationship with those in influence with him, his friends.

00:43:07.040 It's really hard to influence your kid when his buddies hate you. A lot easier when his buddies

00:43:13.260 think you're cool. Easier to have a relationship with that stepson when you and mom are on the same

00:43:18.640 page. If you have an issue with mom, trust me, your influence on him is going to weigh, right? So

00:43:24.980 relationship with those of influence. Four, you need to listen and learn from him.

00:43:32.640 What's going on in his world? Who is he? What is he processing? Not correct any of it. Just listen

00:43:40.180 and learn. And after all that, you're in a position of influence to coach. And I think we have to be

00:43:48.280 careful. We talk about this mostly with adults sometimes, right? Being the lighthouse. It's like,

00:43:52.860 hey, I'm just going to lead by example and come what may. If people see my greatness, awesome. If

00:43:58.180 they don't, they don't. That's on them. There's a little bit more, right? People need to know that

00:44:03.460 you love them. And this boy won't know you love him by default just because you're being an amazing

00:44:11.220 husband and father in the house. That's not personable enough. Being a superficial figure on

00:44:19.700 Instagram doesn't mean any of those people love me. They're great models. And I might want to go in

00:44:26.080 that direction, but it doesn't mean anything about me and kids need to know and their world, they think

00:44:31.720 everything's about them. So they need to know that you love them. And that requires you to be, go through

00:44:38.220 those steps of influence. Yeah. The only other thing I would add on this one, Kip, is make sure you

00:44:45.580 honor the type of relationship he wants to have with his father. Absolutely. Even if his father is

00:44:52.280 a piece of work and maybe he's not around, that kid, and it's natural, wants to have a good father,

00:45:00.720 wants their father to be amazing, wants their father to be involved in their lives, wants their

00:45:05.540 father to behave a certain way. And I'm not saying you need to blow smoke up his ass and pretend that

00:45:11.360 his dad is, you know, God's gift to the world. But when the kid says, Hey, I love my dad, that's not

00:45:18.920 a time for you to get offended or upset that he has a good relationship or wants to have a relationship.

00:45:25.440 Just honor that to the degree that you can like, Hey, that's good. Like, I want you to have a good

00:45:30.700 relationship with your dad. Or, or maybe, maybe he tells you about the weekend and he did something

00:45:37.140 with his dad and inside it kind of stings a little. Cause you're like, man, I've been doing

00:45:42.420 that for years and the dad shows up and does it. And all of a sudden he gets all his credit

00:45:47.520 and then that stings you a little bit. So fine. It's fine. Good. And then you honor it. So like,

00:45:55.160 Oh, that's awesome. You guys went on that, that hike. That's really cool. What'd you think about it?

00:45:59.660 I love that hike. Tell me about it. Just honor it and let go of the spitefulness. And I know it can be

00:46:06.700 challenging and I haven't seen it again from the perspective you're in. I've seen it from

00:46:10.420 the kids aside. And as I get older, I can see how, you know, with my mom, like things I'd say about

00:46:18.900 my dad, I'm like, Ooh, that must've stung to her, you know, now that I'm older and see it, but she was

00:46:25.860 always pretty gracious about that. Yeah. Make it about the kid. Well, and you, you said something like,

00:46:31.360 regardless of how this guy shows up, I just have to add this. And also regardless of what

00:46:36.680 mom thinks, because like, and, and I, you know, I'm not, I don't mean to put her on blast, you know

00:46:42.660 Gavin, but like a lot of women believe that like they can find this new guy and he's dad replacement.

00:46:53.820 Like, Oh, I'll just replace dad with this other guy. And she'll try to like, some women will try to

00:47:00.980 steer the relationship in a way that like, you know, little Bobby, I got you a new dad. Like he's your,

00:47:05.380 he's, he's your dad. Now super damaging. And, and, and some women will try to do that and they're in

00:47:13.580 the wrong, absolutely in the wrong. And it's not what's best for their kids. They're, they're

00:47:18.760 selfishly trying to reform a family. So they feel better about the circumstance. And it's not about

00:47:26.460 what's best for little Timmy. What's best for little Timmy is to have a strong relationship with

00:47:30.500 his biological father. They just don't want to accept that.

00:47:37.240 Yeah. Uh, well, yeah, I think some women can be that way for sure. But I also think there is,

00:47:43.240 I think there's a desire for women and, and men and even children for a new dynamic, you know,

00:47:53.660 something they've, they've wanted to have. And if you can make that healthy and it sounds like you are,

00:47:57.600 then there's merit and value in that as well, but not at the expense or replacement of their

00:48:03.620 biological father. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Elijah Elliott, Ryan, how has the IC affected you in

00:48:11.140 regards to building the building process all the time and effort you have put into it? The men it has

00:48:18.120 brought into your life. I personally have benefited tremendously. And I think you and all the men

00:48:23.300 I've been involved with for that. And I'm very curious to know you being involved since the very

00:48:29.380 beginning, what have you learned and how has it changed your perspective? How has this adventure

00:48:35.140 shaped you as a man? That's a lot. Um, tell us your life. Um, yeah, well,

00:48:43.840 I, I often say that it's like those old Rogaine commercials or hair plugs for men or whatever,

00:48:51.040 where the guy's like, I'm not only the president, I'm a client. Remember those? Yeah. Yeah. That's

00:48:57.900 how I feel like, yeah, I founded order of man, but I'm the, in many ways, the biggest beneficiary

00:49:03.460 and recipient of it too. And the amount of people I get to talk with like you and Elijah and, um,

00:49:10.360 you know, other people like John Eldridge today and other people that we've had on the podcast,

00:49:13.940 like the amount of people that I get to talk with is incredible. And I think that's one thing that

00:49:19.440 I really didn't realize the importance of is a network. You know, every, everywhere I go,

00:49:25.620 I can, I can meet with people or occasionally if I'm at the airport, somebody might bump into me and

00:49:31.660 say, Hey man, are you Ryan? I was at a box lacrosse game in Vegas a couple of months ago. And

00:49:36.080 I was sitting there with my son and a guy came up and he's like, are you Ryan? I'm like, yeah. He's

00:49:40.000 like Ryan Mickler. I'm like, yeah. He's like Ryan Mickler with order of man. Yep. And he was there,

00:49:47.120 him and his wife were there watching the game and they had this cute little daughter. She must've

00:49:50.420 been one or two years old and we talked for a minute. And so to be able to be instrumental and

00:49:56.860 helpful in those people's lives is incredible to me. And it also lights a fire under me at times when

00:50:04.260 I know I'm slacking off or not doing what I need to be doing or attempted to stray or whatever it

00:50:09.540 might be to really think about what people need of me and how I need to show up because

00:50:17.360 the stakes are pretty high. You know, if, if I stay on top of myself physically, personally,

00:50:24.080 mentally, emotionally, then I have a greater capacity to serve the people around me. And

00:50:29.380 that's my kids. That's my girlfriend. That's her daughter. It's, um, you guys, it's guys in

00:50:35.040 iron council. It's people who haven't found us yet. So yeah, I need to be, I need to be at the

00:50:40.600 top of my game and I'm not, but I'm striving to be and always trying to fix things is I slip or fall

00:50:48.920 or fall behind is just getting back on top of it. So it's a, there's a lot of accountability built

00:50:54.120 into the position I sit within the organization. Yeah, totally. I had a great, we in the iron council,

00:51:01.220 we have these all hands calls on, on Fridays and last Friday, for whatever reason, connected in a way

00:51:09.720 more than, than, I mean, they're always great calls, but last Friday's was really, really good.

00:51:16.980 And, and one of the things that we talked about on that Friday call is what's the probable future?

00:51:23.900 What's the probable future? If Ryan doesn't level up, what's the probable future? If you don't put on

00:51:30.780 the mantle of, it matters how you show up in the world and how it affects other people.

00:51:35.880 What's the probable future for the guy listening that decides, you know what? My health isn't

00:51:40.420 important. What's the probable future for the guy that stays in the marriage half-assed for the kids,

00:51:47.380 right? Like guys, like, you know, and that was like my takeaway on Friday is like, what's at stake?

00:51:53.220 And the answer's a lot, a ton of things. And, and thus why this conversation, the order, man,

00:52:02.240 the podcast, the iron council, why this is also critical. I mean, that's the game that you took

00:52:08.340 on Ryan. You took on that level of, of game and it's awesome. And it's so important.

00:52:15.300 I agree. I mean, that's, but it doesn't matter at what scale it is either. I think sometimes we tend

00:52:24.900 to look at that and think, well, you know, in order to make my dent in the universe, I have to serve

00:52:30.080 this many people. I don't think so. Serve one person, serve the kids under your roof. If you serve

00:52:37.220 them well, that's a win or your wife. Well, that's a win. Or the widowed woman who lives next door.

00:52:43.700 That's a win. And by the way, if you want to create a large debt, I don't think there's

00:52:50.060 anything inherently wrong with that. If you want to have a positive impact on as many people as you

00:52:53.960 possibly can in this world, that's, that's valiant. That's a, that's, that's a good thing,

00:52:59.100 but you can't do that until you can help the people closest to you. Totally. And then once you

00:53:05.780 learn to really help the people closest to you, your capacity and your ability to expand your network

00:53:12.060 and to serve other people grows and grows and grows and grows. But what I've seen a lot of guys

00:53:17.800 do is they have this desire and it's not always righteous or virtuous. It's a lot of times very

00:53:24.060 selfish. This desire to be, have this notoriety or these accolades of reaching millions and millions

00:53:31.040 of people and they do it on a very surface level. But then when you scale back to the closest

00:53:38.700 relationships they have, they're complete garbage and it's not real. It was just all a facade. And so,

00:53:48.400 yeah, you serve lots of people in a very shallow way, but I think what we ought to do is work on

00:53:53.860 serving fewer people in a much deeper, richer way. And then that influence expands from there.

00:53:59.060 Yeah. Well, and I love how you tied that to growth. In fact, I had this conversation with my

00:54:03.940 daughters. One of my daughters yesterday was you got to win where you are. And, and most people

00:54:12.320 approach difficulty with where they need to go. Oh God, this job sucks. I need to find the new job.

00:54:19.240 We talked about this even last week or things are difficult. So, you know, what's, what's this

00:54:24.160 external thing that needs to change back to being a victim versus where, how do I win where I am

00:54:31.000 when, where you are. And that's, that's the lesson to be taught. That's the opportunity for growth

00:54:38.340 right then. And we often overlook it and, and think that, you know, some other circumstances to

00:54:44.960 change. And that's the issue when reality, all that we need to do is learn. Yep. Yeah.

00:54:50.660 I agree. And we expand. Cool. I love it, brother. Um, I have a hard stop. So are you good if we wrap

00:54:57.240 up? Yeah, we'll call it a day today. We've got lots of good questions and I think we've got some

00:55:01.460 that I think went through all the ones in the iron council and then we'll go over to Facebook maybe

00:55:05.040 next week. Sounds great. Sounds good. Great. So big, big call to actions. I think are one iron

00:55:11.140 council opening up this month on the 15th. We have the preview call on the 17th. That's order of man.

00:55:18.440 Uh, that's iron council.com slash preview, the iron council, the iron council.com slash preview.

00:55:26.860 Um, and then the men's forge event, which is, uh, the men's forge.com. And that's May 1st through the

00:55:34.900 4th to sign up for that as well. Yep. That's right. Lots of stuff going on. Hopefully we're going to see

00:55:40.880 you in the iron council. We'll see at the men's forge. Uh, it's going to be a very cool event and we got a lot

00:55:46.440 of cool things coming up in 2025. So guys appreciate the questions. Appreciate the support.

00:55:50.720 Appreciate you listening to my, maybe hopefully not too bad audio here. Um, but we make things work

00:55:56.080 as we can. So, uh, that John Eldridge interview will be coming out in the next week and a half

00:56:00.140 as well. So stay tuned for that. All right, guys, go out there, take action and become the man you

00:56:04.800 are meant to be.

00:56:05.720 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:56:15.020 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:56:20.540 We'll see you next time.

00:56:27.600 Bye.

00:56:27.940 Bye.

Together for the Kids？, Overcomplicating the Uncomplicated, and Discounting Other People's Success ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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