Order of Man - TONY BOVA ｜ The Standard You Set Is The Life You Get

00:00:00.460 Most men sense something is off in their lives long before they can even put a name to it.

00:00:05.720 You know, they've played by the rules, been agreeable, unhelpful, maybe even conflict avoidant,

00:00:11.280 and yet they still find themselves feeling invisible and disrespected, maybe even hollow inside.

00:00:17.700 Today's guest calls it exactly what it is. It's the nice guy trap.

00:00:20.900 And he didn't just study it from the outside, he lived it.

00:00:23.500 He lost a marriage over it, battled addiction through it,

00:00:27.100 and has come out the other side with a clear-eyed framework for what it actually means to step into

00:00:31.820 your masculinity. My guest today is Tony Bova and today we talk about the internal work that nobody

00:00:37.440 really ever talks about. It's about rewriting the stories that you tell yourself, honoring your word

00:00:43.080 in small moments, having the hard conversations that you've been avoiding, and building something

00:00:48.460 that's more durable than the honeymoon phase of your romantic life. So if you're done outsourcing

00:00:56.280 your standards and you're really ready to become the loudest voice in your own life, this one's for

00:01:02.060 you. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:01:07.540 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily

00:01:13.520 deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:20.840 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:26.200 a man. Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler. I'm the host and

00:01:33.180 the founder, and I'm glad you're tuning in 11 years after we've started this movement. I'm so

00:01:38.840 grateful and honored that you do listen, whether this is your first episode or your thousandth

00:01:43.760 episode. I'm really glad that you've partnered with us and are getting value, hopefully, from

00:01:48.900 the mission to reclaim and restore masculinity. That's what we're doing here, giving you the

00:01:52.040 tools and the frameworks to be better men. I've got a really good one for you today with Tony

00:01:57.160 Bova. Before I get to that, speaking of being good and better, make sure you check out my good

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00:02:52.180 use the code order of man all right guys let me introduce you to my guest his name is tony bova

00:02:58.680 he's a mindset coach and a speaker and he knows like many of us do firsthand what it costs a man

00:03:04.440 to live outside of alignment with himself he's navigated divorce he's breaking generational

00:03:10.140 patterns of substance abuse he's dismantling the nice guy identity that he had built his life

00:03:17.340 around he emerged with a mission to help men stop shrinking and start leading in their relationships

00:03:23.540 in their homes in their own minds and his work sits at the crossroad of extreme personal

00:03:33.360 accountability but also practical masculinity drawing on the lives of the men that he's

00:03:40.080 worked with in his own life rather than just theory. He challenges men to rethink everything

00:03:45.500 from how they handle conflict to how they handle and interpret the word vulnerability. We talk

00:03:51.060 about that today. And he argues that most of what passes for emotional openness is actually

00:03:57.840 just disguised as abdication of responsibility. But his message is very simple. You choose

00:04:05.320 everything, especially how you allow people to treat you and through coaching and speaking and

00:04:09.920 raw and honest conversations. Tony's building a legion of men who are grounded in accountability

00:04:16.500 and done waiting for permission to show up fully. Check it out, guys.

00:04:22.720 Tony, what's up, man? Good to have you on the podcast today. I'm looking forward to

00:04:25.920 our conversation. Yeah, man, I'm super stoked. I've been following yourself for a while and

00:04:33.360 it's exciting to be able to have a conversation with you and other men that are out there doing

00:04:39.700 good work right like being able to help other guys be able to overcome things and so i'm pretty

00:04:44.380 excited to have a conversation with you it's it's actually pretty amazing how far the the space so

00:04:51.100 to speak has come over the past 11 years now is when i started doing this um yeah i think yeah i

00:04:58.060 think it's in large part to the work that we've been doing doing over the past over a decade now

00:05:02.880 but it's really cool to see how many different angles are being taken some of them are really

00:05:07.320 good angles and some of them are not so good. So I think the challenge now is sifting through the

00:05:12.140 noise and the nonsense and the BS as to what works and what doesn't. I think there's a lot

00:05:17.520 that sounds really good and cool, but in application ends up leaving men probably

00:05:23.280 in a worse position than they were before. Yeah, no, I really agree with you too on that because

00:05:29.640 there was parts of the red pill movement that were pretty significant. There was a lot of truth 0.63

00:05:34.560 involved in that. But I also think it was extremely damaging because it basically separated men from

00:05:41.140 their emotions completely. And you had to have this stature and look towards things that were

00:05:46.660 external, like money and women and status and stuff like that. And I think at the core identity

00:05:53.420 of us as men is that we really want to leave impact, right? We want to be connected and be

00:06:00.880 able to leave legacy be connected to our kids be able to do good things and to do good things it

00:06:06.360 didn't really align with that narrative and I do think there has been some damage done because

00:06:11.680 then there's this view that masculinity is bad and masculinity is like one of the most incredible

00:06:17.200 things I think you know that we get to experience as men that the more you step into it the more

00:06:23.200 you start to understand it it's it's life-changing and it's changed my life I was I was a I'm a

00:06:29.340 recovering nice guy. So that was like a huge thing for me to be able to start to learn,

00:06:35.840 oh, actually, you know, like these parts of inside of me that I feel very called to are

00:06:40.060 actually really good things. And they're not like bad, like it's good to be dangerous, you know?

00:06:46.340 Right. Yeah. I think there is, I want to talk about that, that term you use stepping into

00:06:51.320 your masculinity, because that's the term we often hear, but sometimes it's, it's like,

00:06:57.060 what does that even what does that even mean and we try to get really tactical on the podcast you

00:07:01.560 know because a lot of people say oh you just got to step into your masculinity be more of who you

00:07:04.960 are it's like okay cool let's unpack that but yeah i think i think you're right about the red pill

00:07:09.360 movement in a lot of ways some of the diagnosis was right some of it not all of it was was accurate

00:07:15.380 in that uh society has you know rejected men society has spit on men uh culture is is taught

00:07:24.380 to believe that masculinity is inherently toxic I don't think it's toxic or benevolent inherently

00:07:32.760 I think it has the potential to be either but it's just depending on how we use it so the diagnosis

00:07:39.600 was partially right but the prescription was wrong and what I think it's left a lot of men feeling is

00:07:44.720 this void and emptiness and lack of fulfillment although they might have the six-pack abs and

00:07:50.000 the, you know, 20 inch biceps and, uh, you know, the car or the beautiful woman, they're still

00:07:56.120 drunk. They're still miserable. They're still isolated and they're still feeling all the 0.98

00:08:01.900 ramifications of the way they were feeling before. Yeah, no, I agree with you a hundred percent. I

00:08:07.560 think it's, it's an internal battle. It's not this external thing where we have to display,

00:08:13.460 you know, what, what is it that I've accomplished? I think we can accomplish a lot of great things

00:08:17.940 that could be externally viewed, uh, as a man, but really it comes down to like, what is the

00:08:24.480 story you're telling yourself internally? And like, why, like, what's the why behind it? Like,

00:08:29.200 why are you actually looking for those things for the fulfillment and actually realizing like,

00:08:35.280 you know, you actually already have it inside of you, like that deep internal fulfillment.

00:08:39.640 And that was like a big part of my journey through figuring out, um, feeling like extremely

00:08:45.360 sensitive that i i had a lot of emotions i have a you know italian background my family's very

00:08:52.320 emotionally and loud and being able to connect with you know the sensitivity of emotions and

00:08:58.280 feeling and and being able to enjoy what was happening and also this other piece of like

00:09:03.420 all right that sensitivity gets you in trouble because then when my feelings are hurt what do

00:09:07.300 i do with that i feel like i'm closed off and i'm not able to actually express myself because then

00:09:12.660 I don't feel seen or heard or understood. And for me, it was being able to go through

00:09:20.200 really difficult things where I finally just kind of like peeled off all of those layers

00:09:26.440 where I get unattached to the experience that other people see me as. And I get to be more

00:09:33.280 and more me. I get to show up as who God has created me to be and the unique gifts that I have

00:09:39.700 that allow me to share that I guess freedom really is like I think at the core of us as men

00:09:47.780 and how do I get to experience that and all the choices that I make and like I used to I used to

00:09:53.600 have a really difficult time with discipline uh the idea of discipline I don't know if it was like

00:09:58.540 my view on what discipline was going like growing up and then going to the state police academy and

00:10:05.180 discipline was a big part of like what we incorporated and ingrained into us. And I saw

00:10:11.760 discipline as this thing that I don't know if I really, I like kind of fought against it where

00:10:16.940 I didn't, I, and this has been actually an interesting, like recent process for me over

00:10:21.520 like maybe the last year, year and a half where I started to really understand like how disciplined

00:10:26.320 I really am. Like the, the, and it's all of these little teeny choices that I make every single day

00:10:32.180 that have big ramifications on how my life turns out. And the little bit of the story that has

00:10:39.220 shown up in all of those moments where it's in the individual moment when things show up

00:10:45.480 that I get that choice. So like, for instance, if my girl, Sabrina and I, we've been together

00:10:51.980 for two years now. If she says something that triggers something inside of me and I don't like

00:10:56.760 it, I have a, I have an opportunity in that exact moment, how I'm going to react. And I get to be

00:11:02.420 able to think about that differently than just reacting to it. And so that it's my experience

00:11:09.320 of what I'm experiencing with her. And is that the kind of relationship I want to display moving

00:11:15.120 forward, regardless of what other people see? It's like, how do I connect with her in that moment?

00:11:20.180 And what are my choices? And that's the discipline that, um, has really changed my life where

00:11:25.980 it you know it's it's the story that we tell ourselves in these little teeny moments

00:11:31.280 whether i open the fridge or not or whether or not like you know i i don't love going and working

00:11:37.080 out like that's just it's not like i'm like so excited to work out every single time but i do

00:11:42.960 it because i know that the story is i'm gonna feel better about 5 10 15 minutes into it then

00:11:48.500 then it's like oh yeah of course that's why i'm doing this right now and being able to make those

00:11:54.540 small little choices like it's all in the small it's like the simplest things but it gets really

00:11:59.700 complicated because of how you know whatever it is that happened when we were younger or however we

00:12:06.540 like experienced a situation that felt so painful for us i'm never experiencing that again so i'm

00:12:11.720 never i'm going to avoid that at all costs and i'm doing it subconsciously and those were the

00:12:17.500 things that really started to change my view on what discipline was how i was able to interact

00:12:21.720 with it and simplify it so that I get to live more free in my life where I get to experience

00:12:28.020 my relationships in a way where I feel really deeply connected that we're, you know, if

00:12:33.480 there's a, you know, a disagreement of an opinion of how we see things instead of it

00:12:39.920 being like, well, because we see it differently, then therefore I like, I can't relate with

00:12:45.660 you.

00:12:45.960 It's well, maybe it's an opportunity if I really care and I love you and I'm invested

00:12:50.480 in this relationship, maybe there's an opportunity on the other side of the uncomfortable conversation

00:12:54.500 that we have that we actually get to be closer together. And then seeing it from that point of

00:12:59.620 view, it's allowed me to have really difficult conversations that actually have really helped

00:13:04.320 my relationships blossom and be more enjoyable. And those conversations don't become as difficult

00:13:10.080 as you start to get those reps in and you actually start to experience like, oh, okay,

00:13:15.220 what i was afraid of happening isn't actually happening now i get to connect even deeper

00:13:21.760 that that's the uh that's one of the interesting things that i've noticed in having difficult

00:13:27.580 conversations and so many men are afraid of having yeah they're just afraid of having

00:13:33.360 confrontation you know as as as you said being a nice guy is something that a lot of men suffer

00:13:39.120 with and i have in the past not so much anymore because i've conditioned myself to just be honest

00:13:44.220 and speak boldly and plainly and assertively but it's it's very terrifying when you were raised to

00:13:51.800 sit down to shut up to color within the lines to do what you're told to be a good little boy to get

00:13:56.640 your head padded when you know you did something right and to get disciplined or scolded when you 0.92

00:14:01.380 did something you know masculine heaven forbid and so we've got legions and legions of men who

00:14:08.100 are being trained to grow up in a very feminized environment in a very feminized way and so it's

00:14:17.920 no wonder to me that so many men have a challenge with difficult conversations but it's interesting

00:14:22.020 because i found that the the more you have those conversations the easier life becomes and the

00:14:30.720 more that people actually respect you which is a bit ironic and counterintuitive for a lot of people

00:14:38.100 yeah no the counterintuitive piece like is it it's like the difference between like if i'm

00:14:43.720 going to confront what i'm afraid of and the fear of like that shows up in so many little moments

00:14:51.320 for us as men where the avoidance of it actually creates the situation that we actually don't want

00:14:58.740 to happen so like the conversation that needs to be had it can it like builds up energy around it

00:15:04.300 And so that energy starts to like increase. And then that's where, you know, like a cliche thing is, is like, well, why didn't you take out the trash? Right? Like it's, it's, it's a simple, small thing, but you don't do that enough times. Like not saying that men have to take out trash or that has to be the situation, but you don't do it. You don't do what you say enough times, the things of your word, like honoring your word and being able to actually execute on those things.

00:15:30.060 and it builds up this, well, I can't trust you because you're not actually exercising who you

00:15:36.120 were meant to be. And for us as men, our word's everything. And those conversations, having them

00:15:43.680 are the thing that would actually change every man's relationship. Those uncomfortable

00:15:50.240 conversations, whether it's inside of the business they might be operating with the employee that

00:15:55.800 they you know they continue to avoid to have that conversation with or they need to fire

00:16:00.140 or with at home with her where she you know they can't they can't actually express like hey you

00:16:06.600 know what that doesn't work for me and be comfortable with like the fact that that might

00:16:10.760 hurt her feelings and that that her feelings being hurt might actually be the thing that makes her

00:16:15.660 feel safe because he's now not like placating to you know how she sees things but he's actually

00:16:23.240 leading from who he is, like who he has, who God has created him to be, to actually exercise that

00:16:33.460 leadership. And that leadership is everything. That's the thing that makes our relationships

00:16:37.620 feel safe. Our kids start to be able to develop and not have to fall into those same narrative

00:16:42.680 or patterns that we did when we were younger. It gives them the ability to do something different.

00:16:48.140 Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I heard a quote the other day that, and I'm going to butcher this,

00:16:52.960 but the demons that you refuse to fight will be the demons that your children have to fight

00:16:58.860 yeah and oh that i found i found that to be true you know i've i've broken some generational

00:17:05.260 curses and i've uh i was gonna say fallen prey to that that's a little too passive but i because

00:17:12.900 those are my choices um but i've chose i'll say it this way i've chosen to engage in other

00:17:18.400 generational behaviors that i don't want my children to deal with which is why i've decided

00:17:25.140 to address them later than i should have alcohol abuse primarily i know that's something a lot of

00:17:33.560 guys deal with i know i think it's something that you've dealt with as well if if i understand

00:17:37.280 correct yeah um yep you know that's it if i don't if i don't learn to fight that then my children

00:17:43.820 will have to fight that battle and i'd rather i don't want to keep them from fighting battles i

00:17:49.260 just want them to fight worthy battles and substance abuse isn't a worthy battle like it

00:17:53.680 it's not the right way to say it it's a it's a battle worth fighting but i'd rather them fight

00:17:58.800 more meaningful battles than having to worry about overcoming substance abuse issues yeah no i and

00:18:06.280 you know and substance abuse it's i have an interesting view on like you know it can be any

00:18:12.660 like anything that we use to avoid what's going on like you can use the gym the same way as alcohol

00:18:17.340 where you're avoiding what you actually need to confront but you know specifically with alcohol

00:18:22.740 it it's this thing that you know it just numbs everything else around us and it's so difficult

00:18:30.760 to come out of that like i of course i don't want my kids to have to face that that challenge

00:18:36.460 throughout their life and to be able to show them like you know interesting for me my kids i didn't

00:18:41.640 drink till later in life, like more in my thirties when I was, I went through my divorce and I went

00:18:46.080 through all of these different things that were really, really difficult where I like basically

00:18:50.060 turned things upside down. And so my kids did see me drinking quite often and it was pretty normal

00:18:56.060 and I normalized it. And then they see the transformation of, you know, for like the last

00:19:01.880 four years, I haven't been like cold, cold, sober where I've like not ever had a drink,

00:19:07.920 but I've had a couple of drinks in the last four years. Didn't like it. It wasn't the same feeling

00:19:13.120 for me as it was like years prior to that. But they see like, oh, now dad doesn't drink at all.

00:19:18.860 And when somebody offers me a drink, they're like, oh, dad's not going to do that. And it's

00:19:23.140 this kind of interesting thing that they got to see, like how I worked myself through that.

00:19:28.280 And they noticed it, like we'd have conversations about it. And those conversations to me are like

00:19:33.900 gold. Like I get to have these conversations with my kids that, you know, most, most dads

00:19:40.200 would avoid because they feel really uncomfortable about them. Like whether it's like about sex or

00:19:45.020 money or alcohol or whatever it is, like having those conversations are actually the thing that

00:19:50.820 is going to help your kid be able to have a better perspective on what is it like, what does it mean?

00:19:58.300 I got two daughters. So like, I actually talked to them about sex. Like when they bring stuff up,

00:20:02.320 I know that the friends at school are going to, they're going to have these conversations.

00:20:07.280 So I'm like, I want to be the first one to have this conversation so I can set the narrative.

00:20:11.360 And so instead of being uncomfortable about what that conversation looks like to talk about that with my daughter, like I'm the one that wants to be able to have that conversation.

00:20:19.600 So I know that I can at least give her my perspective in a way that's going to be healthier for her than just hearing from their friends and all of the social media and all the different things that they're exposed to that my kids don't get exposed to.

00:20:33.560 And now they're like kind of left like, well, because I didn't get that when I was younger.

00:20:36.900 I didn't get that conversation on sexuality like the way that it would have been really beneficial for me because I think it was just this thing we didn't talk about because there was so much shame around it.

00:20:49.600 And so I didn't have a perspective.

00:20:51.640 And so I was like, I don't want my kids to experience that.

00:20:54.060 So let's talk about it.

00:20:55.120 Like, I don't, like, I get excited about it.

00:20:56.680 They're like, dad, I can't believe you get excited about this.

00:20:58.700 It's like, it's, it's like one of the, it's like almost counterintuitive, right?

00:21:01.880 Like I'm getting excited about talking about sex with my daughter so that I make sure that

00:21:05.660 she has a healthy perspective on it.

00:21:07.140 But that's the thing that needs to happen.

00:21:09.320 It's crucial.

00:21:10.080 And, and I even, I've even seen some studies and research, uh, Dr. Warren Farrell, he

00:21:14.300 wrote the boy crisis and other books as well.

00:21:16.120 a raging feminist who, uh, saw the error of his ways because of, of where modern feminism has

00:21:22.480 taken culture and society. But he talks a lot about the importance of, this will be really

00:21:27.460 important for, for the, uh, fathers of girls who, who listen to the podcast, the importance of a

00:21:32.240 father in a young girl's life is so crucial and often understated because what it teaches,

00:21:38.900 this was the, this was the research, what it teaches a young woman is that she can be loved

00:21:45.060 and valuable without sex entering the equation because what she will learn is the path of least 0.82

00:21:55.640 resistance if a dad is not around so she can actually through a father get the attention

00:22:00.240 of a man she respects without having to sexualize herself but without a father present she's going 0.74

00:22:05.920 to take the path of least resistance and many women often do and you can just look at birth 0.99

00:22:12.280 rates and ages for birth and, uh, children out of wedlock for, uh, daughters without present 0.63

00:22:19.820 fathers, it's atrocious. It's horrible. And part of the reason is, is because they learned at an

00:22:25.720 early age that the best way to get the love and attention of a man is through sexualization of

00:22:30.840 her, of her body. And so she puts herself out there, takes the path of least resistance. And 0.98

00:22:36.180 of course, if she's sexual, then she's going to get the attention of sleazy men who are looking 1.00

00:22:42.000 for the lowest common denominator there. And, uh, it's, it's pretty horrible, but the importance

00:22:47.120 of a male father figure in a woman's life cannot be overstated. Yeah, no, I, I, I agree fullheartedly

00:22:56.560 and like, and I look at this in my relationship too with Sabrina, like she, she was born in Morocco

00:23:02.160 and her dad passed away when she was two months old. And so she never really had that figure

00:23:08.220 inside of her life and she came to america when she was five and you know her she didn't really

00:23:15.620 wasn't able to really heal from from that at two months until we got into our relationship and i

00:23:22.520 started having these conversations with her about certain things and she started to realize how

00:23:27.480 important it was to have that masculine frame the the the the leadership piece where she was like 0.92

00:23:34.040 very independent wasn't she wasn't so much sold on like the feminist uh the feminizing of things

00:23:40.960 but that she was very independent and her realizing like how safe it was for her to be

00:23:46.860 able to express who she was designed to be when she was actually with a safe man how critical that

00:23:53.320 was for her to be able to overcome and start to step even more into who she was meant to be

00:23:57.780 And that has been an incredible thing to just observe for me where she's been able to heal things that she had no control over when she was younger and how she relates that to my kids and how she brings that in and is like – I didn't get the experiences that you guys get.

00:24:18.720 and helping them see how incredible it is that what they get to experience with me is so different than what she experienced

00:24:26.800 and that gap in between that really helps them kind of connect the pieces

00:24:31.080 and so that we can even have more connection inside of that.

00:24:35.240 And it is by far, like, I think one of the things that bothers me the most is society

00:24:46.760 or people not understanding how important the masculinity piece

00:24:51.100 and how misunderstood it is.

00:24:52.900 It's not like this guy that's out of control and is able to,

00:24:57.160 he just wants to conquer and he's enraged.

00:24:59.380 He's actually, true masculinity is like the ability to be grounded

00:25:03.780 and make the tough calls without needing credit for it

00:25:08.300 and not being seen in it.

00:25:10.100 And the consistency behind that of making those calls over and over again

00:25:14.780 to lead his family in that direction.

00:25:16.760 And, you know, it's, it's one of the things I want to see change significantly. And I know you want to see that change significantly too. And I think that's, you know, an incredible thing for us to be able to have these, this conversation here on your, you know, on your podcast and be able to share these pieces.

00:25:36.400 Cause you know, I, I, I haven't been doing this that long, but the messaging I've been

00:25:42.360 getting from a lot of guys and my like DMS and stuff is just like, wow, this is incredible.

00:25:46.460 I did.

00:25:47.280 I, I finally feel seen by someone that is out there living that.

00:25:52.480 And there's a lot of men out there that just like, they're not what they're just so confused

00:25:59.600 by what they're experiencing inside and their own internal narrative.

00:26:03.060 and they're so afraid to come out of it because of everything that's happened especially in the

00:26:07.560 last couple decades and you know even what do you think they're afraid of like when you say

00:26:12.780 they're afraid what what is what do you think a man is afraid of i think a man is afraid of

00:26:19.080 not being seen for what he has to offer and to be shamed for the fact that he's strong the fact that

00:26:27.680 he would protect his family at the cost of his life. Uh, but, but he doesn't like, I think a lot

00:26:35.420 of guys get stuck in when they were younger, uh, that, that piece of being a boy and being ashamed

00:26:42.980 and being found out. Like, I think, I think the biggest thing that for a man is that he doesn't

00:26:48.400 want to be found out to be a fraud. And so he's afraid to be able to step into who he is because

00:26:53.240 of that fear and be able to speak up for himself because every time he does he gets criticized in 0.98

00:26:58.760 that process he hasn't fully owned he doesn't give a shit about what this other person thinks or 0.95

00:27:05.760 sees him so that he can actually just continue to live who he was meant to be so like there's this 0.57

00:27:11.360 it's so unreal though because when i hear what you're saying i mean i i don't disagree with you 0.95

00:27:16.240 i i that's a lot of what i hear some guys say as well it's it's absolutely retarded like it 0.89

00:27:23.160 it just is i i just cannot wrap my head around it when guys talk to me about this kind of stuff 0.87

00:27:29.580 because it's like you know your wife your kids your boss your clients your colleagues your

00:27:34.420 friends your co-workers your acquaintances random strangers on the street they actually

00:27:38.620 wants you to be a man. The narrative, the cultural narrative is be feminized, be in touch with your

00:27:47.080 feelings, be vulnerable, which I fucking hate that word because it's, it's such a dumb thing. 1.00

00:27:55.280 It's like the modernized version of it is so ridiculous. It's so dumb. Uh, it's, it's, 1.00

00:28:01.580 it's just bastardized and it's misused and it's abused uh the people in your life don't want you

00:28:09.260 to be that way they might say that but then when you actually show up like a man where like you

00:28:14.380 said you're grounded and you're disciplined and you're convicted and you have principles and you 0.97

00:28:20.860 follow through on your commitments and you're physically strong not a fat slob and you're 0.99

00:28:26.180 making money and you're coaching your son's little league team and you're going to your daughter's 0.92

00:28:30.640 dance recitals that's the most attractive thing that you could possibly do from a romantic

00:28:37.360 perspective from a platonic perspective from a professional perspective and yet all these guys

00:28:42.560 are wandering around wondering what they should do just be a man that's what people want even

00:28:47.280 though they might say they want something else man i'm going to step away from the conversation

00:28:53.060 briefly uh i want to share with you our brotherhood it's called the iron council you've

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00:30:30.760 now let's get back to it with tony yeah i what i what i've found especially with the guys that

00:30:36.800 i've worked with and the conversations i've had a lot of it actually has to do with and you know

00:30:43.180 the vulnerability word is it's kind of an interesting and interesting thing how it's

00:30:48.480 viewed in society and i actually have an interesting perspective on it for men specifically

00:30:51.960 but a lot of this stuff is like they they weren't able to ever grow up through whatever they

00:30:58.520 experienced when they were younger and we're kind of seeing because of how culture has shifted so

00:31:03.720 much we're seeing that they haven't been able to grow out of that boy phase and you know with with

00:31:10.900 with men not being as present inside of relation like inside of the home where there's more divorce

00:31:16.700 and there's, they're not, there's not a good image of what a man is. A lot of these guys

00:31:20.760 actually don't even know what that looks like. And so there's, they're imprinted from a very

00:31:25.280 young age to not even know how to step into that or what that looks like. And a lot of the work

00:31:34.060 I've been doing is like, how do we reorient that story from when you're younger? So you can actually

00:31:39.280 mature emotionally internally versus having to do, cause like the external pieces that you're,

00:31:44.740 you're you're talking about i agree with you 100 those definitely exhibit like those pieces of

00:31:50.480 being a man it's also the internal part where a lot of guys get hung up because they get stuck

00:31:56.340 in the emotions of it because there's they still might be seven years old and their feelings are

00:32:01.420 getting hurt and then they're starting to have outbursts and then you know the moment a man has

00:32:07.060 an outburst it's it's different like if you're in a fight with your girl like and she yells at you

00:32:12.260 and then you yell back that that's a completely different scenario it's not there's no fairness

00:32:17.280 behind it but because we're bigger stronger meant to kill things that that's what she feels like at

00:32:23.060 the moment that you match her energy with with her tone if you do that one time what like you

00:32:29.120 lose all credibility with her and to be able to build up enough safety with her over a period of

00:32:34.840 time it's like you you have to there's like 10 15 20 you have to show up more and more so that she

00:32:40.080 actually can gain that trust back because it's it's not an equal exchange of energy like how i

00:32:46.840 if i yell at her it's it doesn't equate the same to her because she's designed so differently she's

00:32:52.760 designed to be safe like that's her primary mechanism of like how she operates for us it's

00:32:59.260 it's not quite the same i don't think we operate at wanting to always be safe uh we we predominantly

00:33:05.820 are like we want to go out and be able to accomplish something we are driven by something

00:33:11.420 and so because of our yeah i actually think for men it's the opposite of being safe i think we'd

00:33:17.740 rather be in i wouldn't say dire circumstances but i would definitely say we'd rather be in a

00:33:23.360 predicament yeah challenge you know we'd rather be out being chased by a lion or our backs against

00:33:29.620 the wall financially or um you know up against a particular deadline or viewed as the underdog

00:33:38.100 most men i feel like would rather be in that situation because that's where the real masculinity

00:33:43.360 comes out okay because we're solution driven right so in like that solution driven piece

00:33:47.760 like especially in relationships it it actually is counterintuitive for us because oftentimes

00:33:53.840 she's not really looking for us to have like fix something she's just actually wants to be seen

00:33:57.680 heard and understood and so when we bring that solution like well i'm logical like well clearly

00:34:02.760 this is the solution for this why why can't you see that why are you talking about this non-stop

00:34:07.600 about what's going on instead of her like for a lot of guys realizing like i she actually just

00:34:13.560 wants you to hear her and be able to share her experience and and do nothing and that for us

00:34:22.180 doing nothing is probably one of the most difficult things because you know when you like

00:34:26.860 from a biological perspective looking at testosterone like our testosterone like the

00:34:31.080 more we have the more driven we are the more we want to move towards something like how we were

00:34:35.400 designed and she wasn't designed that way and so like when it comes to a fight you know the moment

00:34:41.920 where we we we've bottled it up enough where like you feel criticized and you feel as though like

00:34:48.280 she's trying to make you wrong for whatever is going on then we explode that absolutely loses

00:34:55.020 all credibility for her because it was just, it's, she's constantly doing these little tests

00:35:00.460 to see how safe we are. And if you can't actually like stop those tests before they get to that

00:35:07.100 point where it's criticism and it's, uh, her constantly like on top of you about like, what,

00:35:12.840 like why, why everything's wrong, then the relationship is going to be completely disconnected

00:35:18.560 moving forward because it's our job to actually kind of keep her inside of like, you can't talk

00:35:23.080 to me that way. Or this is a boundary for me and that I'm sorry, here's the door. And being able

00:35:29.860 to do that actually makes her feel safer than the moment we yell. It brings her right into that

00:35:35.880 fight or flight state. Her anxiety comes up, her nervous system is dysregulated, and she feels like

00:35:42.000 we might actually harm her. We probably won't, but that's what she feels inside. And if that's

00:35:48.920 what she feels it's going to be her experience and we don't we we don't have a lot of leeway with

00:35:54.880 that like there's there's not a lot of leeway for for us as men to be able to to mess up like that

00:36:03.220 and i'm you know i'm not big on like black and white thinking or like you know that you you

00:36:09.060 can't screw something up and and be able to like repair it but there's like that consistently

00:36:16.700 will deteriorate the relationship and then most guys are like well it's not my fault because

00:36:20.960 she's already yelling at me and you're playing this back and forth equal game and it's not equal

00:36:24.860 like we you have to be comfortable with the fact well it might not be your fault but it is your

00:36:30.920 responsibility like i mean i think men just ought to get over that it's like well it's not fair yeah

00:36:35.900 right exactly and so what like it's it's but you know what's interesting though is is you might hear

00:36:43.420 a guy complain about that and be like well she's allowed to have all these you know passes or

00:36:46.840 whatever and i have to be perfect all the time yeah you do and so is does that does that make

00:36:53.120 it wrong or does that make your life better that actually makes you a better human being it makes

00:36:57.560 you a better man not just inside the relationship but outside of it as well it creates more

00:37:02.820 fulfillment it creates more opportunities it creates more financial prosperity it creates

00:37:06.600 more opportunities for you to help other people it creates everything that men say they want

00:37:11.540 and they're like well it's not fair what's not fair that you have an opportunity to be better

00:37:16.000 to grow to improve to to be fulfilled in your life that seems pretty uh pretty worthwhile to me

00:37:21.640 well also we're not taking how unfair it is for her on her perspective like the way that

00:37:25.820 like she can't walk down a dark alley at three o'clock in the morning after a night out drinking

00:37:31.160 and feel the same as like you or i going down the alley like the amount of times so the amount of

00:37:37.380 times i'm comfortable like being out like i got this this was like wow this is like nearly 20

00:37:42.840 years ago i was meeting my family i have family in italy and something happened i had like three

00:37:48.260 different flights and i missed a flight because i didn't i don't speak italian and the italians

00:37:54.260 were not super helpful and i missed my flight in rome to go meet my family a few hours later

00:37:58.860 and i ended up i'm in rome it's like midnight and i'm like i'm in rome right now i'm like 22

00:38:05.860 two at the time, I'm like, I'm going to Rome. I don't care what time it is. I don't care that

00:38:11.500 I don't speak the language. I'm going to go walk the streets of Rome and enjoy myself because

00:38:15.640 that's where I am right now. And I did that. And if it was Sabrina or another, they would never

00:38:22.160 think about going and doing that because I had a homeless guy following me at one point. It's

00:38:27.480 dark out. I don't really know where I am. That was just, I can do that and feel completely safe

00:38:34.080 and comfortable doing that, but a woman can't do that. And so when we look at these extreme 1.00

00:38:37.960 examples of things, like it's not fair for her on the other end, like she can't go and do these

00:38:43.600 other things. And I think that that, when we start to realize like our job is to honor them

00:38:49.980 and that like what they bring into our life is like, it's more about the energy and the softness

00:38:56.580 and the nurturing and the radiance where she can light up the room, then we start to be more

00:39:02.420 comfortable with the responsibility if it's not fair. Because it's also not fair for her. It's

00:39:06.300 just completely different. And when we look at it as like, instead of it being this competition of

00:39:10.680 what's fair and what's not fair, it starts to become like this thing where we get to actually

00:39:14.960 experience how God created us to be, to be able to actually expand upon this so that you go into

00:39:21.540 your strengths and I go into my strengths. So the more masculine I am, the more feminine you get to

00:39:26.320 be. And I get to honor that. Like I, I opened the door to my, to buildings or my car or whatever

00:39:32.000 all the time with Sabrina and my kids. I'm like, I ask her, I'm like, don't open that door. She'll

00:39:36.460 get in trouble with me if she opens the door without me opening it for her, because I want

00:39:40.180 to honor her. It's not because like I'm controlling or any of those things. It's just, she enjoys that.

00:39:45.000 She feels safe by that. And I know that I want to honor the fact that she, I want to honor her

00:39:51.320 softness and that she doesn't want to confront the world the way that i do i want to be challenged

00:39:56.380 i want to be in those uncomfortable situations and find the solution she doesn't and that's good

00:40:00.820 like that's a good like she doesn't want to have to to grind it out she needs her time to go and

00:40:08.060 take care of herself and depending on you know what week of the month it is and how she experienced

00:40:13.520 like this you know we we talk a lot about her cycles and like understanding her cycles when

00:40:18.920 she's in her luteal phase I know that I need to give her a little bit more grace on how she reacts 0.79

00:40:23.200 to things because her hormones are completely different whereas when she's ovulating like

00:40:27.920 it's like it's it's like that honeymoon phase where we're like oh wow this is incredible she's

00:40:32.840 experiencing and I get to experience life through her the way that she sees it because of like how

00:40:39.500 feminine she gets to step into that and that's I get to carry all the other stuff and I'm comfortable

00:40:45.240 with that. Well, and we also don't want to compete. There's no competition. We don't want to compete 0.99

00:40:49.160 with our women. I don't, I want to, I want to compete with you. I would love to compete with 1.00

00:40:53.500 you. I'd love to, I'd love to train with you. I'd love to train jujitsu. I'd love to get the

00:40:57.500 firearms out and I'd like to beat you and see if you can beat me. I would love that. I don't want 0.95

00:41:02.260 to do that with my woman. I want to come home and not compete with her. Like I want to, I want her 1.00

00:41:06.800 to be soft and feminine and lovely and beautiful and nurturing and kind and patient. I don't want 1.00

00:41:13.440 to compete with her like i actually want to bring that out which is what i think you're saying is 0.52

00:41:17.280 the honoring piece i already hear guys saying they're like well you know she has to be worth 0.82

00:41:21.480 honoring yeah i agree and i and i would say that the inverse is also true is that a woman ought to

00:41:28.380 respect her man but he ought to be respectable for her to have that i think it has to be partially

00:41:33.680 yeah no i there's a baseline level i'm not saying that there's a baseline level of being able to

00:41:38.920 respect and honor a woman and then there's above and beyond for you yeah and i also think like when

00:41:43.820 they start well she needs to be respectful it's like however you tell that story then she's gonna

00:41:50.100 show up that way so if you don't think it's pot like if you're looking for her to take the lead

00:41:54.220 on that we're not designed for that like we need to know who we are and we're comfortable with who

00:41:59.280 we are in order to have an incredible relationship so that i can hold the boundaries like one of the

00:42:03.960 first things, it was like my second date with Sabrina. I told her, I can handle everything

00:42:09.180 that you've experienced up until this point. I can handle your story, all of the broken pieces.

00:42:13.740 Like I'm going to honor all of that stuff because I understand that like that's made you who you are

00:42:18.260 today. But the only thing that I will never tolerate, and it's been true even in the smallest

00:42:23.720 moments, is like if you make whatever you're experiencing my fault. And that's my, that was

00:42:29.520 my boundary. Like I can't have you telling a story that it's going to be on me because you're

00:42:34.920 experiencing what you're experiencing because you're an adult, you have choices yourself and

00:42:39.140 it's on me to be able to uphold that. And, you know, I did that not even that far into what,

00:42:45.740 cause I dated her for like nine months before I actually fully committed. And a couple months in

00:42:52.600 we're dating long distance and she's, you know, she sends me this text message and she says,

00:42:57.780 is I miss you. And this is like pretty like small stuff, right? Like she sends a text. I miss you

00:43:03.660 where, you know, we're pretty close at this point. Most guys would have just said, I miss you too.

00:43:08.600 And I intentionally didn't say that to her. And I knew that there was going to be potential

00:43:12.860 consequences because of that and whatever consequences are. And she was going to bring

00:43:17.300 it up and I was going to have to have an uncomfortable conversation with her about it.

00:43:19.920 I wasn't avoiding that fact. Like I wasn't going to tell her like, I don't miss you too. Cause I

00:43:23.440 don't think that would have been safe for her to hear, but I knew that I was comfortable having

00:43:26.560 the conversation she brought it back up and she did the next day she's like hey i need to share

00:43:30.440 something with you i want to share like what like you said something you didn't say something it

00:43:34.500 really hurt my feelings i wanted to be able to be able to express that to you and i was like sure

00:43:38.080 of course i would love to hear like you know what what you experienced provide that safe space hold

00:43:42.860 space for her on that and she was like she told me you know i you know when i told you i missed you

00:43:49.180 you didn't say it back yesterday it really hurt my feelings i was like oh yeah of course like i can

00:43:53.240 understand why that hurt your feelings. Can I, can I tell you why I intentionally didn't tell you

00:43:58.420 I missed you back? And she was like, well, yeah, of course I would love to hear, you know, why you

00:44:02.960 intentionally didn't do that. Like it wasn't like this thing you just avoided. And what I explained

00:44:08.300 to her is that like, I didn't miss you in that moment. And if I, if I told you, I missed you

00:44:12.960 when I didn't miss you, I know well enough that if I continue to do that and just tell you things

00:44:18.860 that you want to experience time and time again throughout like our relationship would never last

00:44:23.840 it would never become a long-term relationship because I would be continuing to concede

00:44:28.020 to your experience and how you feel and how you see things and not actually share my truth with

00:44:34.320 you when it was safe to do so and then you would actually disrespect you you wouldn't have any

00:44:39.340 respect for me in the process and then I would become super unsafe and then you would lose

00:44:43.340 attraction for me two three six two years from now whatever the time frame is at some point this

00:44:48.100 relationship would have a expiration date on it. And so because of that, and I, because I want to

00:44:52.600 honor you so much, I'm willing to have this conversation, even if it means that we're not

00:44:57.600 going to be together at the end of it. And then she was like, whoa, like, wow, that's, that's

00:45:02.720 incredible. Like I, I, I, and then she felt honored because I wasn't willing to compromise myself

00:45:09.060 for how she felt. And then it's kind of become this thing where like, she's very, she, she,

00:45:15.880 she very much understands i'm not attached to her feelings and how she sees things because her

00:45:21.740 feelings go up and down so much five minutes goes by she could change how she feels about it

00:45:26.300 and so she feels super safe knowing that i'm being consistent and that she knows that like i'm not

00:45:32.200 gonna ask him his opinion about something and if i'm come if i'm not comfortable hearing an answer

00:45:36.380 i don't want to hear because i'll ask her i'll be like are you sure you or that when i'll ask her

00:45:42.720 I'll be like, are you sure you want me to answer that? And that's like her little, like, like her

00:45:46.700 little cue to know that you might not like the answer. And then sometimes she's like, no, I

00:45:50.900 actually, I don't want to know. Or she'll be like, yes, I do want to hear. And she's prepared to hear

00:45:54.880 something that she doesn't want to hear. And it's like, and it's helped our relationship so much.

00:46:01.880 Uh, or that when you say something, you actually, you know, like how, how, cause I'm, I'm pretty

00:46:09.460 good. And I think this is a nice guy tactic is I'm pretty good at saying like picking up what

00:46:14.940 people want to hear and saying it. I've done that in the past and it smooths things over. It makes

00:46:20.320 things where you don't actually have to have any difficult conversations or ruffle any feathers.

00:46:24.780 And so that's actually a really good tactic to keep the peace, but it's not honest. It's,

00:46:31.640 it's not reality. And so what ends up happening is you're actually undermining your credibility

00:46:38.780 and influence with that person because if you just said i miss you all the time when you don't

00:46:46.360 eventually she'll realize i don't know if he actually does or does not miss me right now

00:46:50.580 because he says whatever i want to hear all the time instead of being honest with right and then

00:46:55.960 that you know especially because like i don't think it's it's applied equally across all like

00:47:00.880 you know if you're an acquaintance i'm not i might not share my full truth with you because i don't

00:47:04.980 know if you've earned it you know what i mean so but like and you don't you don't yeah you don't

00:47:09.280 own that so i don't i don't necessarily feel like oh i owe you my truth because it's not like at that

00:47:14.360 at that point it becomes this thing where i might waste my energy sharing something that might be

00:47:18.740 valuable to you and you're not going to even hear it anyways so like you have to earn that

00:47:21.900 that that type of um connection with me right but with her like if i'm choosing her and i'm like

00:47:29.920 you're the girl. I want you next to me. Like it is absolutely probably one of the most critical

00:47:37.440 things to be able to have that uncomfortability with it or with her, because that's the only

00:47:42.900 thing that will actually build. Like, I don't, I hear guys talk about like, well, you know,

00:47:48.000 you talk about the honeymoon phase and you just, you go, you live out of the honeymoon phase and

00:47:52.500 then you bring the honeymoon phase. But I'm like, I don't want the honeymoon phase. I want a better

00:47:56.800 relationship to the honeymoon phase. I want to build something with this girl. And if I want

00:48:02.040 to build something with her, we better have a lot of really uncomfortable conversations

00:48:05.300 because then we're actually going to start to see how we see things and how we can shift our

00:48:09.980 perspectives so that we get to actually build those things together so that you step into your

00:48:16.240 gifts and I step into mine and that we actually amplify each other instead of it being like this

00:48:23.220 competition thing. Like I'm very aware of like what that feels like. I've had a lot of different

00:48:29.200 relationships and that competition feeling is like, why are we in competition? Like the moment

00:48:35.220 you step into competition is the moment you're stepping into masculine energy. And when you're

00:48:39.260 going masculine energy against each other is a big, is a fight. Like the moment you become

00:48:44.260 masculine, like I'm not backing down. Like there's just, that's, that's part of me. Like

00:48:48.140 that's part of who I am. That's like, I'm not going to back down from this and you're not

00:48:52.920 going to win that fight with me because I'm, I'm comfortable with that, like ending the

00:48:56.880 relationship. So how do you influence me from a perspective of femininity and being able to

00:49:03.540 actually, uh, move, move us closer together so that we can have that connection that feels like

00:49:11.700 nothing else that you and I are actually building this thing together that is going to accomplish

00:49:17.800 great things. Well, and I think part of it is just telling people what you want. I think that's a

00:49:25.740 very masculine way to approach life, whether it's a romantic relationship or a professional

00:49:31.940 exchange or conversation, just letting people know what your goal is, what you want, how you

00:49:38.180 expect to be treated. You know, we train people how to treat us. And so if everybody around you

00:49:42.300 is treating you like dog crap, it's because you've trained them to treat you like that. 0.99

00:49:46.960 they will get what they want you will roll over they will be able to bulldoze you and of course 1.00

00:49:53.040 you know take a look at kids kids are horrible little heathens like they're such little

00:49:59.360 manipulators like they they they get this so well they will do whatever they need to do employ

00:50:05.960 whatever tactic they need to employ in order to get exactly what they want from you and we think

00:50:12.240 it's funny and we laugh at it, but, but your wife or your girlfriend's doing that as well,

00:50:17.040 not maliciously, but she's doing that. Your, your clients are doing that to you. Your boss

00:50:21.760 is doing that to you. And if you can't assert yourself in some measurable way,

00:50:26.180 then you're just operating a default, wondering why everybody is misusing and abusing you.

00:50:32.320 It's because you're letting them. Yeah. It's kind of like that victim mentality. It's,

00:50:36.600 it's like, well, you know, I'm just like the moment guys actually started to realize how

00:50:42.180 much of a creator of they are of their own reality and how like being able to have those

00:50:47.220 uncomfortable conversations or set those boundaries or be able to be like you know be direct about

00:50:51.480 this like hey that doesn't work for me the sooner they're going to actually get to experience the

00:50:55.880 life that they they actually feel called to and that's that's the cost of it is that

00:51:01.380 uncomfortability because everybody is out there trying to run their own agenda and the less

00:51:10.800 judgment we have towards that the easier we get to actually use that so like instead of it being

00:51:16.860 well they're trying to manipulate me i don't actually like believe anybody can manipulate

00:51:22.760 me because if everything is a choice on my end then you actually have no control over that and

00:51:27.640 real like the way that we see manipulation like that is like you're controlling me

00:51:31.700 but if i'm choosing everything even if it's something um you know what like one of my

00:51:37.920 clients, he's very committed to his relationship where he's like, I'm married and I'm not going

00:51:43.160 to leave her. And I was like, that's okay. As long as you choose it, just choose the fact that

00:51:49.620 that's your responsibility. And if you're comfortable with that, then you can't make

00:51:54.900 her the fault of why you're experiencing it this way. Because if it's a choice, then you actually

00:52:01.520 are still free, even though you're, it's still like connected to your, to your values because

00:52:08.000 your values are really important, right? As men, those are like, those dictate our belief systems

00:52:13.180 and how we actually step out into the world and make choices. And if your choice is like, I don't

00:52:18.420 want to leave the marriage, then you just choose, you just choose her and accept the fact that it

00:52:23.020 might not change. And then that's still your choice, but know that you have a choice. And

00:52:28.280 then once you know you have a choice that gives you the freedom and that's that's like probably

00:52:32.640 one of the most it's super it sounds super simple when i explain it like that it's also one of the

00:52:38.680 most difficult things to do because you actually have to break it down in the moment and then in

00:52:43.100 that moment make a choice and that takes discipline that takes like repetition and execution to like

00:52:49.280 actually build the awareness around it i i like that framing because and like you said it's

00:52:56.140 difficult because i think what a lot of guys do is they just dump responsibility well you know 0.98

00:52:59.960 she's acting this way and so what am i supposed to do or you know my boss is a jerk and that's 0.98

00:53:05.680 the reason i can't get ahead it's like you can't find another job yeah like you you can't you can't 0.99

00:53:11.660 exit a toxic relationship and find another woman with somebody who's healthy and lovely and

00:53:16.340 beautiful and wants to build a life with you like you're incapable of doing that that's what you're

00:53:19.860 saying you're like well the reason my marriage is horrible is because of her the reason that my

00:53:25.560 career is horrible is because of him. The reason my finances are in, in shambles is because the

00:53:31.360 economy. It's like, are you really incapable of improving your life and having to wait around

00:53:38.520 for everybody else to make changes in theirs to improve yours? It's such a wildly passive way to

00:53:45.200 live your life. No, I, I agree. And you can even do it in smaller moments. It doesn't even have to

00:53:49.820 be as big as like, I have to leave her or I have to leave the job. You can actually make different

00:53:54.800 choices like i had a situation when i was working at the state police and i was doing you know i'm

00:54:01.760 did homicide investigations for about eight years and we we had these new tracking systems inside of

00:54:08.200 our cars where we like we moved from not having gps in our cars to having gps and where i was in

00:54:15.640 this situation with my boss where he was concerned about where i was going all the time and instead

00:54:21.320 of like we had the ability to turn it on and off because of the sensitivity of like what we were

00:54:26.500 doing as far as investigations and you know we're allotted like we were allotted an hour to work out

00:54:32.480 so I would go to the gym I would make sure I got my workout time in and stuff like that and so

00:54:36.680 there was a lot of paranoia about like you know our my job really changed in how like how much

00:54:43.680 autonomy that we had where a lot of trust that we had because there was a lot of scandals that

00:54:47.500 happened. And so all of this started to come into play and he was very concerned. And so instead of

00:54:52.620 me being frustrated that he was trying to put something on me that he wasn't putting on other

00:54:58.460 people or my other coworkers, I said, you know what? Screw this. I'm going to take away the

00:55:04.260 control of that. And I'm going to turn my switch on and he can know where I am all the time.

00:55:08.760 And so I took my standard and I elevated it above his so that I didn't have to worry about whether

00:55:15.360 or not he was thinking where and it it completely squashed him his concerns about whether where i

00:55:21.280 was or what i wasn't doing and that that gave me the ability like okay i'm not like i'm not i know

00:55:26.240 i'm already doing the right thing so what does it matter what he's what he sees and that gave me

00:55:33.160 like the freedom back in my job where i'm like okay well now you're not going to complain about

00:55:36.940 this any longer and so like you can do these in these small little moments you just elevate your

00:55:40.980 standards. And I don't think most guys want to, they don't want to do that. And that's the thing

00:55:46.140 that actually, the more we have, the higher standards that we have, the better our quality

00:55:53.440 of life is going to be. Because then our standards are so high, it doesn't really matter what you say

00:55:58.660 your standard of me. I'll give you this for instance, it was a very arrogant thing for me

00:56:04.340 to say to Sabrina when we were first dating. And she's kind of like, you're such an asshole for 1.00

00:56:08.920 this, but it was kind of, it's, I felt it was, it was truly like how I saw it was I'd been through 1.00

00:56:15.620 enough failed relationships, divorce, and, uh, a toxic relationship after that with another,

00:56:21.480 with where I had another son and I'd been through enough at that point where I was like, I'm not,

00:56:27.600 I'm, I'd rather be alone than not have an incredible relationship. And so what I said

00:56:31.960 to her was like, make it impossible for me not to choose you. And the flip side of that was,

00:56:37.140 is that I told her, I said, look, I'm, I know I'm going to make it impossible for you to not choose

00:56:41.120 me. So like, it's, my standards are so high. I know how I'm going to show up for you. And if you

00:56:48.460 can't do the same, then it's not going to work for me. And for her to like, be able to hear how

00:56:52.740 confident I was about that was, it just allowed her to be so safe in, in, in our, inside of like

00:56:59.940 us connecting in our relationship that it kind of took away all of this. Like she doesn't have

00:57:04.360 to question whether or not i'm going to show up at a high standard i'm already going to show up at

00:57:09.500 a higher standard than what her expectation is and that that just that gives me the ability to be

00:57:14.640 free like i'm freed from from from feeling controlled by you or feeling as though i have

00:57:21.920 to be victim to the circumstances no i get like it's we've never been in a more abundant time

00:57:26.700 in the history of humans like we have more technology we have more money like the moment

00:57:32.800 we think, well, because of the economy, if you saw, if your perspective is that there is no money,

00:57:41.240 then of course you're not going to see money. Or if your perspective is there's no good women out 0.99

00:57:46.300 there, then you're never going to find them because the good women are going to see that

00:57:50.520 immediately and they're going to sense it with their intuition and they're not going to want

00:57:53.340 to be with you because you're already victim. They don't want to be with a victim. And so it

00:57:57.600 does start with you. It starts with you to be able to step into uncovering these pieces about

00:58:04.560 yourself, the lies that you tell yourself, the narratives you tell yourself so that you do get

00:58:09.220 to live that freed life. And that changed everything for me because I was living a life

00:58:16.100 where I was victim. I grew up in the church and I had a lot of shame and judgment pieces and black

00:58:20.980 and white thinking. And when I ended up leaving my ex-wife, that's where everything, I stepped 0.78

00:58:27.140 into a period of time where I didn't want to be here any longer. I wanted to commit suicide.

00:58:32.320 And because of the choices that I made, and instead of me being understanding like, oh,

00:58:38.780 I created this and it was because of my hiding and my avoidance that this all came about,

00:58:45.100 it was like this big gift when I'm like, oh, okay, now I get to start over. I get to recreate

00:58:50.500 myself. I really get to see who Tony is and what do I want to do with my life? And what are the

00:58:56.360 gifts that God has really given me because there's some gifts that I don't have. Like I'm not,

00:59:00.380 I got ADHD. I got dyslexic. Like, you know, my social media, I have people on there all the

00:59:04.840 time. Like, oh, you misspelled this. I'm like, I don't care. Like I, I'm not going to see it.

00:59:09.500 Like, so just either accept it or don't watch my stuff. And that's just how it's going to be.

00:59:14.300 And like, but there's other pieces about who I am. If I let that fear of people being,

00:59:19.980 which I did for years and years, if I let that fear of being judged because I misspelled something,

00:59:25.120 like take away from my message or what I wanted to share with people like I would never get this

00:59:30.140 out there I wouldn't be here on the podcast with you Ryan like you know this is an incredible

00:59:35.160 moment for me to be able to connect with you and you know somebody that's been in the space for a

00:59:39.740 long time like I feel very honored to be here and like letting those little fears like guys don't

00:59:46.320 realize how much their fear is actually not allowing them to actually live the life that

00:59:52.100 they know that they're capable of and that's that that for me like that's the biggest reason i'm

00:59:59.160 here for doing this stuff willing to put myself out there and be vulnerable about like there's

01:00:03.840 your word the vulnerable but like it is there is vulnerability well i i do think phone it's fine

01:00:11.440 when used correctly yeah yeah that's the thing that i get frustrated with is people the modern 0.98

01:00:16.340 the modernized version is just dump all your bullshit on everybody and hope they love you 0.99

01:00:20.720 and care about you and want you to be better. That's not if, but if you're saying, no, I'm 0.99

01:00:27.100 going to, I'm going to take risks. I'm going to put myself out there. I'm going to expose

01:00:30.760 or at least be familiar with my shortcomings so that I can improve them. Okay. Yeah. That's it.

01:00:36.100 That's a proper use of the word. Yeah. Vulnerability actually, I think inside of a

01:00:41.640 relationship is actually really important, but it is misused. It's misunderstood and it's,

01:00:47.420 it does create a lot of emotional unsafety because instead of it being like what you were

01:00:53.900 saying, like that emotional dumping ground, like that, that is a, that isn't what I see

01:00:58.260 like masculine vulnerability being like when we dump our emotions because we don't know how to

01:01:03.040 handle them, then yeah, you're an unsafe man. Like you don't have the ability to sort through

01:01:09.340 and be able to share what your experience is, which is really the gift. Like I, like if I share

01:01:16.480 something with Sabrina, it's not because I'm looking for her to save me in that process so

01:01:20.240 that she can like make me feel better about it. It's that I'm only sharing it with you so that

01:01:24.840 you get to see, you get to see me. And if you can't handle that, I won't share it. And that's

01:01:31.720 because I'm comfortable with that. And like, that's my gift to you. And when we like see it

01:01:35.700 as a gift, then it can create a deeper connection because with the risk piece of it, like, and what

01:01:43.340 I found was, you know, to continue to drive attraction is being able to like step on the

01:01:50.560 edge of the relationship and be able to share things so that we're not really sure how you're

01:01:55.480 going to react to it. And then we get to, it's like the unpredictability of it. And so the risk

01:02:00.840 of it feels very aligned in the masculinity piece. And then it also creates an opportunity for us

01:02:07.280 to see like how aligned we are. And then that, like that is a, that's a different essence of

01:02:15.460 vulnerability. Yeah. Well, it just allows you to fix things. You know, I, the, the best way to

01:02:23.760 describe this is imagine that you are a King and you've got this castle with thousands of people

01:02:33.520 inside the castle including your your bride and your queen and your your sons and daughters and

01:02:38.580 knights and workers and blacksmiths and you've got this huge wall around the perimeter and you know

01:02:45.240 that there's warring tribes and villages and other kingdoms that want to take what you have

01:02:50.360 and because you know that you often scan the wall is is there any weaknesses in the wall is there

01:02:59.280 any bricks that need to be replaced? Is there any weak spots that need to be shored up so that I can

01:03:04.380 protect what I've built? And you go to your bride and you say, hey, you know, we found this, this,

01:03:10.620 this, this hole in the wall on the east side of, of, of our kingdom. And it's really dangerous

01:03:19.820 because people can get in there and, and take what we have. And then you tell her, but there's

01:03:27.600 nothing i can do about it i just wanted you to tell you tell you that that it's scary and that

01:03:32.180 there's a vulnerability and there's a weakness and i just wanted you to be aware of that but we

01:03:37.600 can't do anything about it like how safe is she gonna feel like she she's gonna feel less about

01:03:44.060 you she's gonna feel less attraction she's gonna feel like you're weak and inadequate and inferior

01:03:49.040 now if you did the same thing and you said hey babe look there's uh there's there's a hole in

01:03:54.340 the west wall uh i've got our blacksmiths building things i've got our masons uh shaping bricks we're

01:04:02.620 getting it filled filled we're uh fortifying the the wall and this is the strategy and it'll be

01:04:08.960 done in the next 48 hours she's gonna feel better about you oh he's actually scanning the environment

01:04:15.920 he's looking for flaws and weaknesses and vulnerabilities and he has a plan to do something

01:04:20.640 about it. And it's the second half that way too many modern men miss. They just want to point out

01:04:26.060 all the bullshit without a plan to do anything about it. And then expect that other people are 0.99

01:04:30.420 going to have some sort of faith in who they are and how they're showing up. That's not how it

01:04:34.940 works. Yeah, no, I like that analogy. It's a good, that's a good way to actually create like

01:04:40.280 the understanding of it because you know, that to be able to share something with no,

01:04:47.320 no explanation for it like it's meaningless like why would i share that with you like why i'm not

01:04:53.360 going to tell you those things because like that it is going to absolutely make you feel unsafe

01:04:58.020 it is it's not going to allow you to to feel like i can handle myself and that i'm i actually am

01:05:03.640 going to be able to figure out what it is that needs to happen in order for us to be safe and

01:05:09.320 you know like we not just yourself but handle the responsibilities of her and your children

01:05:17.500 and the roof over your head and fixing the plumbing and the electric around the house and

01:05:22.160 all and taking care of the cars and all the other things that come with

01:05:25.780 modern masculinity yeah it's important that

01:05:29.500 it's very important yeah

01:05:34.180 well brother i've appreciated this conversation um tell me where to connect more with you

01:05:42.380 uh let the guys know where they can find out more i know you're pretty active over on instagram you

01:05:47.900 and i follow each other over there and um obviously uh we got connected through a and i i want to make

01:05:54.100 sure i say this is a very good mutual friend bedros coolian who i know is a friend of yours

01:05:59.800 as well that's how we got connected but man i just think the world yeah and i i know you probably do

01:06:05.900 as well but people need to know what kind of man he is he's an incredible he is an incredible human

01:06:11.200 being and you know it's it's interesting because i'm very selective with like like like the people

01:06:18.280 that i want to take influence from because like i want to know that you actually you know walk the

01:06:23.420 walk and there's a lot of guys out there that don't do that and you know for me for at my core

01:06:29.920 like i don't i don't care about the i actually didn't really want to get on social media but i

01:06:35.340 knew it was important like and i don't care about the status of the views or all those different

01:06:39.360 pieces of it i care about the impact and i see him as a man that actually lives what he says he does

01:06:46.680 and the impact that he's creating and so like that's been an incredible relationship to have

01:06:53.180 with him where he, you know, I really do see him as somebody that's, that's actually doing it and

01:07:00.060 he's living it and he cares about people. And he, uh, really does drive the needle in a way where

01:07:08.960 like, like he told a story once at a mastermind I was at where he was talking about how he was

01:07:15.900 getting sued during COVID over fit body bootcamp and how his stance on it from an opinion was

01:07:23.080 the thing that like caused this the suit from all of like all of his franchisees and how he's like

01:07:30.980 i don't care if i lose money over this i'm not going to i'm not going to succumb to their opinion

01:07:36.880 on this because they feel like the business might go under because i care so much about this

01:07:41.940 and because of how i see it then i'm comfortable with that and i'm comfortable with facing

01:07:47.140 everybody's like, uh, I'm comfortable facing what comes from that in that process. And I was like,

01:07:55.560 man, like that is, that is like the definition. Like I'm okay with whatever comes because I,

01:08:02.900 the way that I see, and that's authenticity. And I was like, man, okay, this, like, I can,

01:08:06.980 I can trust that. I can trust the fact that your opinion, you know, maybe I don't agree with every

01:08:11.800 small little thing because we're different humans but i i can really trust that and i appreciate

01:08:18.000 that and i want to be around more guys like that i want to be surrounded with guys that really honor

01:08:22.340 themselves and their experience because that's what leadership is is like i'm willing to go

01:08:27.360 through that uncomfortability and so it's been an incredible opportunity for me to connect with him

01:08:33.260 and be friends with him um so for the guys that are listening like uh they they can find me on

01:08:39.660 social media with Tony J Bova, uh, Instagram, YouTube, all of the above. And, um, you know,

01:08:46.880 respect gains.com. That's kind of my site. Uh, it's where we get guys, we do a little bit of

01:08:53.140 an assessment for them to see how much respect they have in their relationships. And, um, that's

01:08:57.940 really, that's really all, all I got for you. Awesome, brother. Well, I've appreciated this

01:09:05.540 conversation. Obviously it's been good to get to know you and I know you're helping a lot of guys

01:09:09.520 And I know as you become more influential and you build this out and work to

01:09:13.680 serve more guys, I mean, it's going to be incredible. I really believe,

01:09:17.600 and we've got to get more men in this fight, you know,

01:09:19.340 from different angles and different perspectives.

01:09:21.160 And I noticed the culture is changing, which is awesome.

01:09:25.020 So you're a part of that, man. So let's get after it. Tony,

01:09:28.800 I appreciate you brother. Thanks for having me today.

01:09:32.220 All right, you guys, there you go. My conversation with Tony Bova.

01:09:35.120 I hope you enjoyed it. Really, really powerful conversation.

01:09:37.940 and he's very much on the same path as you and me working to improve himself and become a better

01:09:44.100 man himself, but also helping you do just the same. Make sure you check out his work. He gave

01:09:48.340 you the links. Make sure to check out my friends over at Montana knife company.com. Use the code

01:09:53.920 order a man when you do. And also check out our brotherhood built by men like you at order a man.com

01:10:00.480 slash iron council. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our asking anything until then go

01:10:06.780 out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:10:11.280 Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

01:10:15.960 were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - April 21, 2026

TONY BOVA ｜ The Standard You Set Is The Life You Get

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