Order of Man - Tough Conversations with Your Kids, Advice for a Happy Divorce, and Connecting with Male Role Models

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.240 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.800 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is

00:00:27.240 Ryan Mickler. I'm your host. I'm also the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:00:32.740 Welcome here and welcome back. This is your Ask Me Anything. Now, last week you had the

00:00:38.480 one and only Kip Sorensen solo host that podcast. Usually we do it together. He's traveling this

00:00:45.120 week, so I am going to be solo hosting this podcast this week for better or worse. Now,

00:00:51.700 some of you had mentioned that Kip was telling dad jokes and laughing to himself, and I don't know

00:00:59.460 what to say. He gets a little nervous at times, and it is what it is, and so we're working through

00:01:06.460 that. So I'll make sure I talk to him about the dad jokes. You're not going to hear any of those

00:01:10.020 from me. You're just going to hear the answers to your questions for better or worse, and hopefully

00:01:15.360 I've got some great answers for you. If you're curious about what this Order of Man thing is,

00:01:19.560 head to orderofman.com. Obviously, subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a single podcast,

00:01:29.620 whether it's this one, our Friday Field Notes, or our conversations with some incredibly powerful

00:01:34.740 guests, Tim Tebow, Ben Shapiro, Andy Frisilla, David Goggins, Jocko Willink, who else? Steve

00:01:42.440 Ornella. And guys, we've got some incredible, incredible guests coming up. In fact, I'm going to

00:01:48.240 be traveling this week, recording some phenomenal podcasts. So subscribe. Also check out our Battle

00:01:53.540 Ready program at orderofman.com slash battle ready. All right, guys, let's get into your questions.

00:01:58.900 These ones specifically are coming from our Facebook group, which you can join for free

00:02:02.480 at facebook.com slash order of man. Nope, sorry. Facebook.com slash groups slash order of man groups

00:02:10.780 slash order of man. This one comes from Landon Overbeak. He says, can you iterate or clear

00:02:17.580 things up on why friends aren't great choices to hold you accountable? I don't think that's

00:02:22.960 entirely true. We'll get to that. He also says, example, shouldn't be friends with your battle team

00:02:28.260 if they can't hold you accountable? What does their friendship benefit you? So I think there's a lot of

00:02:34.360 assumptions in here. And I do want to clear this up because that's not at all what I said.

00:02:38.520 What he's referring to is in our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council, I had made the

00:02:45.540 comment to our team leaders not to get so close to your team members that you undermine your own

00:02:52.600 leadership. I didn't say undermine your accountability. I said, undermine your leadership.

00:02:57.460 And I found this to be true in my life. If you're so close to your friends or a better example would be

00:03:04.600 so close to colleagues and coworkers, or maybe even subordinates. And I'm using that term because

00:03:12.100 we all understand what it means. But let's say you're a boss or you're a team leader, and you're

00:03:16.340 going to get drunk every weekend with the people you're meant to lead. How long do you think that

00:03:22.540 you're going to have any sort of credibility, influence, and authority with them? The answer is

00:03:28.080 not very long. So you can have friends, you can be accountable, you can hold each other accountable.

00:03:34.860 But if you're undermining that authority by doing things that you shouldn't be doing,

00:03:40.140 or by acting like a fool, or not acting like a leader, or not being a good partner,

00:03:46.680 then it ain't going to work. So what you need to realize and understand is the role of the

00:03:51.700 relationship. I have friends that we casually get together periodically, and we talk about deep

00:03:59.580 issues, we have deep and meaningful conversations. And then I have other friends that I completely

00:04:04.140 let loose with. So what I'm saying is just understand your role. Same thing with your wife.

00:04:11.760 You can see a picture of me when I had the longer beard and my beautiful wife. I'm not going to

00:04:17.080 undermine my influence and credibility with my wife by acting ridiculous or maybe even doing the same

00:04:25.460 things that I might do with some of my friends because then that undermines my ability to lead her

00:04:30.100 effectively and to lead these four little ones right here above my, I think that's my right ear.

00:04:37.320 And so that's a challenge. So know what your role is. Know your role is what we often hear.

00:04:43.960 Is your role to be buddy-buddy? Another great example. I'm not friends with my kids.

00:04:50.340 They're not my friends. Now we are friendly. There are elements and dynamics of friendship,

00:04:56.280 but I'm never going to step off the mantle of father down to this lower tier of friend.

00:05:03.280 When I was growing up, I had a couple of friends who had parents that were more like friends than

00:05:08.560 they were parents. And I thought they were so cool that they could do whatever they want.

00:05:13.620 They didn't have curfews. Their parents didn't check in on them. Man, I thought that was so cool.

00:05:18.840 And looking at it now, I think, man, it actually probably would have been a good idea if that

00:05:23.620 parent would have been a mother or would have been a father. And I think that would have drastically

00:05:27.940 and radically improved somebody's life. So know your role and then fill that role.

00:05:34.400 And we have a lot of different people in our lives to fill different roles.

00:05:37.280 And if you're treating your wife like your buddy, or you're treating your kids like they're solely

00:05:42.160 your friends, and you want them to like you, and that's it, then you're going to undermine your

00:05:46.820 ability to lead them effectively. And that's exactly what they need from you. My sons and daughter

00:05:52.160 don't need me to be their friend. They have friends. They need me to be their father.

00:05:57.160 The leaders in the Iron Council don't need you to be buddy-buddy with them. They need a leader.

00:06:02.860 They have enough friends. You're not their friend. You're their leader. So understand your role,

00:06:08.480 fill that role, and make it happen. All right, let's go to the next one. This one comes from

00:06:13.340 Paolo Perna. He says, how do you deal with wanting your kids to do well more than they want to do well

00:06:20.800 for themselves? How do we inspire without being an overbearing parent? Well, the first way you

00:06:27.340 inspire children or anybody for that matter is by example. And I don't want to leave it there

00:06:32.820 because that could be considered a cop-out, but that is very, very important. They're going to

00:06:38.040 pay more attention to you specifically, and especially over the long-term based on what you're

00:06:42.660 doing, not on what you're saying. So if you're telling them they have to be in shape and be fit and

00:06:47.700 be strong and be athletic, and yet you're 30, 40, 50 pounds overweight, probably not going to inspire

00:06:53.200 them to do that. If you're telling them that they have to manage their finances or have to build

00:06:58.160 wealth for their families so they can put food on their table, but you struggle to make the mortgage

00:07:01.860 or the rent, you're probably not going to have a whole lot of influence with those kids over a long

00:07:06.240 and sustained period of time. Now, let's be real. Kids are interested in different things than we are

00:07:10.200 as men, or at least they should be. If your kid is interested in what you are as a mature man,

00:07:17.800 then that's a bit of an anomaly and that's okay. We need to feed into that. But if you're interested

00:07:22.740 in the same thing your kids are interested in, okay, that actually might be a problem.

00:07:28.420 So are you a man or are you a child and how are you behaving and how are you showing up?

00:07:35.320 And then look, just because they are interested in different things doesn't mean that they can't

00:07:43.140 see what it is you're doing and they can't be inspired by what you're doing. But ultimately,

00:07:47.720 it's your job to filter growth and expansion through their lens. In other words, you have

00:07:53.160 to meet children where they are. If I was to talk with my kids about options and futures and derivatives

00:08:01.020 and cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, their eyes are going to glaze over and they're going to be

00:08:05.360 completely lost and they're not going to be inspired by that. But if I say, hey, you can earn

00:08:10.620 some money and you can buy a Lego, I'm not going to buy it for you. But if you want to earn some money

00:08:14.700 and work for it, then you can go out and buy your own Lego set. That's language they get. Same

00:08:19.840 concepts, financial principles, but it's language they understand. We go to CrossFit as a family. My family

00:08:26.480 goes about four times a week. I go twice a week because I have other things I'm engaged with

00:08:30.280 and they have a kid's class at the CrossFit organization that we go to, the gym that we go

00:08:37.520 to. And the kids are separated from the adults. So the adults do the adult workout and the kids do

00:08:44.240 the kid workout. And the kid workout does not consist of every minute on the minute workouts or

00:08:50.020 these specific hero wads. It consists of setting up some cones and running around and doing jumping

00:08:55.940 jacks and having relay races and competing with each other and things that are going to engage

00:09:01.380 them in a meaningful and significant way. So if you're struggling to connect with your kids,

00:09:06.360 I would have you really, really evaluate whether or not you're trying to talk to them like an adult

00:09:12.060 or you're trying to talk to them where they currently are based on where they are and filtering your

00:09:18.960 desire to lead, influence, inspire, and motivate them through a lens they can understand and one they

00:09:25.200 recognize. Because if you do it through your own lens, you're going to struggle. This is the same

00:09:29.680 thing with adults, by the way. If you're talking to your colleagues and your coworkers through your

00:09:33.820 own lens, you might miss a lot of opportunity to communicate effectively and serve those

00:09:38.700 individuals. Think about what inspires them. Think about what motivates them. Think about what

00:09:43.960 drives them. And you don't have to be judgmental about that. It is what it is. So embrace it

00:09:48.760 and then filter your language and your conversations through their lens, not through your own.

00:09:54.980 All right. Next question. This one comes from Colin Hatcher. A bit of a longer one. So let me click

00:10:02.660 on that. He says, any advice for a happy divorce? I don't totally like that term, but let's keep

00:10:10.960 reading here. My wife and I are filing when we return from my overseas military assignment.

00:10:15.920 The choice is final for us and mutual. We are still good friends and we want to keep it that way

00:10:21.720 for our son. I know there will be stressors and roadblocks that come up, not to mention the

00:10:26.980 traditional perceptions of a lot of people that have divorces have to be competitive.

00:10:33.280 Well, that last point, you don't really need to worry about that, especially if your children are

00:10:36.920 young. You don't need to buy into the notion of what their divorce was like or what society says it

00:10:43.040 should be or what it typically is. You don't need to buy into that nonsense. So just forget about that

00:10:48.200 last point altogether. It doesn't matter what society says or what other people say it should

00:10:52.520 or could be. What matters is what you guys want it to be. Now, happy? I don't know. Maybe there's

00:10:57.580 some happy divorces out there. It sounds like it's amicable, which is good. I'm not too concerned with

00:11:04.100 it necessarily being happy. But what I would suggest is that it continue to be amicable,

00:11:08.340 that you continue to attempt, if you can, to be friends, if possible. And then what I would

00:11:16.160 suggest is making sure that you never diminish or downplay or criticize your wife in front of your

00:11:24.340 kids. If you want her to have a better chance of being connected with you so you can have a connection

00:11:29.140 with your kids, then the best thing that you can do is to honor her for who she is and what her role

00:11:34.280 is. Now, I know a lot of you listening to that are saying, well, there's no redeeming qualities

00:11:39.440 about my ex-wife. And while maybe that's true to a degree, or maybe you think that's true,

00:11:46.180 I bet there's some redeeming qualities. I bet she cares deeply about her kids. I bet that she

00:11:51.560 has a lot of benefits. If that weren't the case, you probably wouldn't have married her in the first

00:11:57.540 place. So what I would suggest to you is to go back to and consider that maybe there's some things

00:12:03.720 that you're overlooking because of your own amount of vitriol and hostility and clouded judgment

00:12:09.900 because of your own emotional trauma and baggage that you're carrying around. And that's natural.

00:12:15.260 That's to be expected. But we're not going to make decisions emotionally. We're going to make

00:12:19.120 decisions rationally. And rationally, she probably has some redeeming qualities. Rationally, it's likely

00:12:25.080 that she cares about her kids. Rationally, it's probably likely that she still has feelings for you.

00:12:31.160 Maybe not romantic necessarily, but she still cares about you. Just the same way through all the

00:12:37.740 clouded noise and chaos and clutter, and maybe even anger and hostility, you probably have feelings for

00:12:43.160 her as well. So remember that it's not about you. Remember that it's not about the kids. And remember

00:12:50.960 that, excuse me, it's not about her, I should say, in that it is about the kids. It is about making sure

00:12:57.180 that they can honor and respect their mother. It's about edifying and uplifting her. So you're not

00:13:02.240 undermining her authority or influence with the kids and also asking her to do the same. And by the

00:13:08.380 way, if you do those things for her, then it's more likely, not a guarantee, but more likely that she

00:13:13.480 will do those things for you. So let go of the ego, let go of the emotional baggage, see it for what it

00:13:20.860 is. Try to make the best of a difficult circumstance, whether it's amicable or not, and try to serve the

00:13:27.900 kids as best you can. That's what I would suggest. All right. What else? This one comes from Dylan

00:13:38.340 Justice. He says, how do you establish healthy boundaries with a narcissistic mother? Now, I don't

00:13:47.420 know what a narcissistic mother means. That could mean a lot of different things. Obviously,

00:13:51.200 narcissistic, she's wrapped up in herself and she's self-absorbed. I understand what the word

00:13:55.340 narcissistic means, but I'm saying that it could be or manifest in a thousand different ways.

00:14:02.200 Does she think that she should be able to dictate the tone of your relationship and the way that you

00:14:08.460 maybe. Does she want everything that you and your wife and children do to revolve around her?

00:14:14.580 Maybe. I don't entirely know what this means. So it's a very broad question. So broadly and

00:14:20.900 generally, the answer would be that you've just got to work with your wife. You've got to talk with

00:14:27.460 your wife. You've got to figure out what you guys want to do, what you want to accomplish, what you

00:14:32.580 want your kids to be doing, what you want that relationship to look like, what you will specifically

00:14:36.820 tolerate and what you won't. You've got to be willing to put your foot down. But the biggest thing here

00:14:41.900 is you need to get your wife on board. Because if I remember, let me look, this is your, well,

00:14:48.040 it says your mother. So maybe not even your mother-in-law. You just tell her, hey, we don't

00:14:54.980 appreciate when you act this way and you're not going to act this way. And if you do, there's

00:15:00.660 consequences. And what are the consequences? Well, you don't get to see your grandkids.

00:15:04.840 You don't get to spend time with us. Now you might think, well, that's harsh.

00:15:11.880 Well, you're giving her the option. You're not telling her she doesn't get to see her grandkids.

00:15:16.540 You're saying that contingent upon you behaving the way that we want you to behave, you will have

00:15:23.080 the opportunity to have a relationship with your grandkids. But if you're not going to behave in an

00:15:27.860 appropriate manner, then yeah, there's consequences to that. There's challenges to that. There's a

00:15:35.680 boundary in place that says that you will not behave this way. And sometimes when people ask

00:15:42.080 these questions, I think what they're hoping is that I'll give them an easy answer where feelings

00:15:46.020 won't get hurt. Well, guys, feelings are going to get hurt. That's the nature of boundaries.

00:15:52.700 Because if you didn't need a boundary in place, then you wouldn't be asking this question

00:15:56.640 if everything was hunky-dory and you guys had a great relationship and there were no issues,

00:16:00.960 you wouldn't be asking about boundaries. But there are issues. And so you need to establish

00:16:06.180 boundaries and put these things in place knowing that it's going to be hard.

00:16:12.520 That you're going to have to have some serious conversations about what you will tolerate

00:16:16.140 as a husband and wife and what you will not tolerate. And then when she bumps up against those

00:16:21.620 things, she actually needs to experience the consequence of her decisions.

00:16:25.460 Now, that doesn't mean indefinitely if she steps over the line once that you cut her off

00:16:30.340 forever and always. But you explain, hey, I told you this was a boundary. You're not going to

00:16:38.140 undermine what we're doing, for example, as parents. You're not going to undermine our discipline

00:16:43.060 protocol, if you will, for the way we administer discipline to our children and then think that

00:16:50.280 we're going to let you hang out with the kids and babysit the kids. Now, sometimes the problem is

00:16:56.020 that it's convenient to have your mother there or your father or mother or father-in-law there

00:17:02.120 because, well, you got to work and the wife has to work. And so she babysits the kids. Okay,

00:17:07.000 well, that's not a sovereign man. You're beholden to her. So your biggest concern is not that you want

00:17:15.000 to express your concerns with her undermining your own authority with your kids. It's that you won't

00:17:20.960 have a babysitter if you say these things. So you need to make sure you shore up that end too.

00:17:27.800 What are you relying on your mother? What are you relying on with your father or in-laws?

00:17:32.320 And are you in the position to be making and setting boundaries? Because there's going to be

00:17:39.380 a sacrifice. You're going to have to have an uncomfortable conversation with her and you

00:17:44.040 might be burning some of those bridges. And I'd be willing to bet, I don't want to rush to

00:17:48.500 conclusions here, but I'd be willing to bet the biggest concern you have is that

00:17:53.720 you lose some of the convenience in your own life. And while that just isn't a boundary,

00:17:58.340 is it? It isn't principled if there's exceptions to it. Figure out some alternative solutions

00:18:05.880 that you might risk should you bring these conversations up.

00:18:10.560 All right, next. This one comes from Josh Walk. He says, try to get Tim Ballard on.

00:18:15.260 Guys, I have had Tim Ballard on. And in fact, I just reached out to him via email last week

00:18:20.200 to have him on the podcast. If you want to shoot him an email or you're connected with him,

00:18:24.080 or even if you know Tim and you have an in, have Tim and I connect, reach out to him,

00:18:30.140 make a mutual introduction. And Tim and I will get out after it with Operation Underground Railroad.

00:18:36.420 I think he's doing really, really powerful and very heroic, quite literally heroic things

00:18:41.540 in human trafficking. So yeah, I would love to have Tim back on. Please connect with him if you can

00:18:48.120 and let him know. And also, if you want to hear the first conversation that I had with Tim,

00:18:53.340 go to orderofman.com slash Tim Ballard. Orderofman.com slash Tim Ballard. And by the way,

00:18:59.040 if you want to hear any conversation that I've had with any of my guests, then just type in orderofman

00:19:03.900 slash, excuse me, orderofman.com slash whatever the guest name is. So if you want to hear the Goggins

00:19:09.740 interview, go to orderofman.com slash David Goggins. If you want to hear one of the Jocko interviews,

00:19:14.260 go to orderofman.com slash Jocko or slash Jocko one, Jocko two, Jocko three, or Jocko four.

00:19:21.980 If you want to hear a conversation with Tim Tebow, orderofman.com slash Tim Tebow. It's all right

00:19:30.300 there, guys. You can find it, but we have had Tim Ballard on and we are working to get him back on

00:19:34.840 the podcast. Dustin Stokes says, as my boys become older, they're hearing and experiencing more sexual

00:19:42.780 content on a wide front. No doubt about that. Since you have boys of varying ages, what do those

00:19:48.820 conversations look like for guiding them through what's appropriate, what's not, when it's appropriate,

00:19:54.100 et cetera, minor nine and 11. So we are in that phase and learning a lot. And it's not always within

00:19:59.100 my control to shield them. Well, we don't really want to shield them, right? That's not really what

00:20:05.020 we want to do. We don't want to shield or bubble wrap our kids. What we want to do is we want to

00:20:11.800 introduce our children to concepts and ideas and conflicting thoughts and ideologies in controlled

00:20:18.160 environments. So I'm a huge advocate for homeschool. A lot of you guys obviously know about that. And

00:20:24.260 anytime I mentioned homeschool, inevitably I get the guy who's like, well, you know, I want my kids

00:20:29.800 to be introduced to conflicting ideas. Right. And so do I. And conflicting ideas aren't exclusively

00:20:37.220 found within the government school system. I can introduce my children to conflicting thoughts

00:20:43.680 and ideas. And by the way, they're going to hear about it from their friends and buddies and on the

00:20:48.400 football field and all these different places and the news and even watching cartoons now from Disney

00:20:54.600 plus about homosexual and gay and bi and all this kind of weird stuff on cartoons from my five-year-old.

00:21:05.320 Okay. So they're going to hear about it. So it isn't that they can only hear conflicting ideas in the

00:21:11.500 government school system. You should be bringing these things up. But oftentimes we as men don't talk

00:21:17.660 about these things because they're uncomfortable and they're awkward. And I don't want to talk about

00:21:22.580 penises and vaginas to my kids. Like that isn't something I want to do. There's plenty of woke

00:21:30.640 type people who would love to talk about penises and vaginas with my children, but that's not one of

00:21:36.500 them. And I'm not going to allow other people individually to do that. Okay. So I need to get

00:21:41.440 out of my own way and I need to have conversations with my kids about what is right and what is wrong.

00:21:47.240 So when these people say, well, you know, we introduced them to different ideas and you

00:21:52.580 can only do that in school. Okay. My thought is children are quite literally incapable of discerning

00:22:00.640 fact from fiction. My son, he's a nine, almost 10, almost 10 years old. He was crying the other night

00:22:07.420 at bed. And I said, what are you crying about? He said, I'm worried about the chupacabra,

00:22:11.180 the chupacabra. He's 10 years old. I said, bro, is that a real thing? What is that?

00:22:19.040 And he's like, it's the scary monster thing or whatever. I'm like, is that real? Is the chupacabra

00:22:24.800 real? And he's like, no. I said, well, why are you afraid? Because it feels real. Right. See,

00:22:31.900 he's closer to the truth than so many of these adults are. Kids are incapable of discerning between

00:22:40.040 reality and fiction. They're incapable of separating their thoughts and their feelings.

00:22:48.280 And so when I introduce my children or somebody else introduces my children to different concepts

00:22:54.600 and different ideas, and I don't give them a healthy lens in which to view that, then they're

00:23:01.000 going to view it in an unhealthy lens and they're going to accept it as reality. So I can't tell you

00:23:07.660 who asked this question, Dustin, I can't tell you exactly what you should say to your kids. I don't

00:23:14.260 know their maturity level. I don't know what they're experiencing. I don't know what they're

00:23:18.780 going through, but what I do know is, you know, and what I'm willing to bet is that you aren't

00:23:25.740 comfortable having these conversations, which is why you're asking the question, but these conversations

00:23:31.460 are going to be uncomfortable. So deal with that. And what we do is we introduce these ideas and

00:23:37.260 controlled environments and we work through them and we ask questions. That's important.

00:23:42.740 What do you know about sex? What do you know about little girls? What do you know about little boys?

00:23:47.660 If one of your kids brings to you some sort of woke gender ideology nonsense, you say,

00:23:53.780 what have you heard? What do you know about that? What do you think about that? And then you can get a

00:23:59.500 pretty good idea of bearing about where they are, which will help you formulate a better, more

00:24:05.420 cohesive answer in one that's going to help serve them in a meaningful and productive way.

00:24:12.220 Guys, your voice as a father needs to be the loudest because you got Disney and you got Netflix and you

00:24:17.460 got school and you got government and you got all these people out there trying to brainwash your kids

00:24:22.080 into ideology. In fact, I talked about this on a post on Instagram just recently. And I can't remember

00:24:30.940 exactly how it came to be, but they were talking about how brainwashing or something doesn't happen

00:24:41.060 with kids. And I, and I basically told the same thing that kids are incapable of discernment. And the guy wrote

00:24:45.980 back and he's like, well, it sounds like you're trying to indoctrinate your kids into your bias.

00:24:50.320 Right. Dummy. That's the point. I'm the parent. You're not. The fact that you morons don't

00:24:57.660 understand this baffles me. You got to be a freaking fool to believe that I'm not here to

00:25:04.580 indoctrinate my kids into a value system that I believe will serve them. Now you don't need to agree

00:25:11.000 with me, but guess what? They're my kids. I don't always agree with my sister, the way that she raises

00:25:17.100 her kids. I don't always agree with my in-laws, the way they raise their kids, but they're not my

00:25:21.940 kids. Those are their kids and mine are my kids. So yeah, I am indoctrinating them to a value system.

00:25:30.880 And yes, it is biased by design. God saw fit that I have my kids. So I'll raise mine. You raise yours.

00:25:40.940 And that's it. Period. Now, if those kids are in danger, that's one thing. And that's a whole

00:25:47.520 other conversation because wokesters are trying to change the definition of violence and danger and

00:25:52.520 this and that. And, you know, that's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down, but we're not going to

00:25:57.900 go down it right now. But you got to be a freaking moron to believe that it's not my job to teach my

00:26:04.440 kids ideology based on my own personal bias. That's the point. All right. Big breath. Don Pullen,

00:26:14.780 do you have days when you wake up unmotivated to tackle the world, grow men and grow a family? If so,

00:26:20.220 what do you do to get the motivation to perform? Don, the answer is yes. A hundred percent every day.

00:26:25.980 Not every day. A lot of days I have, well, I'll say this every day. There's things that I don't want to

00:26:32.220 do. Occasionally I wake up and I'm like, I don't want to do anything. And what do I do? I do it.

00:26:40.700 I don't need your motivation. I don't need your fluffy fairytale bullshit to get me doing what I

00:26:45.940 should be doing, what I know I should be doing, what I've committed to do. All I have to do is do it.

00:26:51.740 And so I get this planner out right here. This is my daily planner that I use. I've always got it

00:26:59.200 with me. You guys can check it out at order a store dot order of man.com. It's always right here.

00:27:05.140 And yeah, I have this and I write in it what I need to do today. And last night I wrote in it about

00:27:11.280 what I need to accomplish. And this morning I'm looking at it and I'm like, Hey, well, I need to

00:27:14.420 do an ask me thing podcast. I need to reach out to these people. I need to do these things. And then

00:27:19.060 guess what? I do them. I don't care how I feel. Okay. It doesn't matter if I feel motivated or

00:27:27.240 inspired to do something. It's on my fricking list. So I do it and I accomplish it and I tackle

00:27:33.720 it. And some days it's going through the motion admittedly. And other days I'm super motivated

00:27:41.220 inspired because maybe I had some good sleep or, you know, maybe things are firing on all cylinders

00:27:46.680 in my life or whatever. And so then I do it then. And maybe some days I feel like garbage and I didn't

00:27:52.560 get enough sleep. Maybe I'm sore. Um, you know, maybe I'm in a bad mood and I do it because that's

00:28:00.780 what I said I would do. And I'm a man of my word and I place value and I take pride in being a man

00:28:06.480 of my word. And if I wake up and I don't do that list, then I'm out of integrity. And that to me is

00:28:11.780 not acceptable. So it isn't about motivation and inspiration and fluffy fairy tale bull crap. It's

00:28:17.560 about doing what you said you were going to do because you committed to being a man of your word.

00:28:23.820 So how do I get motivated? I asked myself, am I going to be a man of my word today? Or am I going

00:28:28.900 to be a liar? Period. And then I do what I need to do. Nate Howard Osborne. He says through my life,

00:28:40.000 he's 26. I've had a number of men take some kind of interest in helping me grow as a man,

00:28:44.680 but none of them have really stayed in my life for more than a year or two.

00:28:48.960 Not necessarily a requirement. That's my own adage there. He says, uh, my dad was around when

00:28:54.540 I was younger, but was not present or much of a role model. I have two young boys, two and four

00:28:59.960 years old, and I'm trying to develop myself to be a great example, role model and mentor for them.

00:29:04.820 But I've always struggled to find one myself as I live in a fairly remote area in Australia.

00:29:09.740 And there aren't many men who I resonate with who I would want to learn from and that I have access

00:29:15.440 to in this part of the world. Well, come on now you have access to everybody. We have the internet

00:29:20.120 for crying out loud. So access is everywhere. Uh, this is this question. What would you suggest

00:29:25.440 doing to gain better access to men of purpose who are worthy of being role models in order to build

00:29:30.740 better relationships with them that are loop that are, excuse me, long lasting and beneficial to them

00:29:36.280 also? Well, the first thing I would say is we got to address this long lasting thing right here.

00:29:41.440 Like I think what you're looking for is a daddy and that ship has sailed my friend. And I know that

00:29:48.940 sucks. You know, my dad wasn't around for a lot of my life. I had a couple of stepfathers coming to my

00:29:53.120 life. My stepfathers, I haven't talked with for probably 15, 20 years. Okay. Like relationships come

00:30:00.820 and go and not all relationships are meant to be forever. And just because you have a short-term

00:30:05.600 relationship with somebody who might be a mentor or a guide or a coach or a counselor, or just a

00:30:10.940 friend, a man in your life doesn't mean there isn't value in that. So I think the first thing we need

00:30:15.800 to do is let go of the notion that we have to have this, you know, Obi-Wan Kenobi type figure in our

00:30:21.080 life forever. We don't. In fact, it's just not going to work like that unless you have some, some men,

00:30:28.240 some high caliber men in your family. Like if your dad's around, you know, maybe you're 26. Like you said,

00:30:32.940 maybe you're 40, like I am almost 41. I think I will be 41 as the release of this podcast.

00:30:39.440 And so maybe your dad's around for 40 years, maybe he's around for, you know, 60 years of your life

00:30:43.620 or seven, even 70 years of your life, or maybe he's around for two years of your life. Is it any

00:30:50.560 less important? No. So let's get over this lifelong mentor thing. Number one. And then the other thing

00:30:57.400 is look for the people who you want to have in your life. And where do those men congregate? Well,

00:31:00.960 they go to church. Okay. They are very involved in their community. So that might be a rotary type

00:31:09.220 club or some sort of charitable organization. They're also a lot of times business owners.

00:31:15.660 And so they're going to chamber of commerce events and business luncheons. They're very involved in

00:31:21.480 entrepreneur networks. They have their own events. They have their own courses. They have their own

00:31:26.320 programs. They have their own podcasts. And so you tap into those things. Like I have people in my

00:31:31.420 life that I've met through the podcast who now we're personal friends and I don't see them all

00:31:35.760 the time. I don't talk to them every single day, but every month or two, maybe I'll reach out to

00:31:41.100 Burt Soren with SorenX. He's a good friend of mine and somebody I admire and respect. And we'll talk.

00:31:46.420 Or I'll connect with Pete Roberts with the founder of Origin and somebody I highly respect and look

00:31:52.600 up to and admire, not only as a friend, but as a businessman and a family man and somebody who has

00:31:57.280 big dreams and aspirations. And I'll shoot him a message and say, Hey man, I'm struggling with this

00:32:01.660 one thing. Can you give me a bit of feedback or advice? And we hop on a call. Right? So, so look at

00:32:09.040 these relationships for what they are and know that just because they're not long-term relationships,

00:32:13.280 that they can't be valuable. They can't, and they should. And then what we do is we hand select

00:32:19.200 the people that we need in our lives to be able to accomplish the things that we want to accomplish.

00:32:23.220 But in the meantime, to say that you don't have access to anybody is kind of ridiculous. I mean,

00:32:28.780 you're listening to this podcast. You can go listen to Jocko's podcast or Andy Frisilla's podcast or

00:32:33.620 Tom Bilyeu or like whoever's podcast you listen to. You can sign up for a course,

00:32:38.700 like you can get on a plane and you can fly somewhere to a course that's taking place.

00:32:42.640 And even if you don't, you can hop on a zoom call and join, you know, the iron council. That's our

00:32:47.680 exclusive brotherhood. You know, you can connect digitally with 1200 plus other men who are all

00:32:53.200 working towards the same objectives and desires and goals and dreams and ambitions might not be

00:32:58.560 face-to-face, but it's the next best thing. And also there's iron council members in Australia

00:33:03.980 that you can connect with face-to-face. And then you can look at church, you can look at chamber,

00:33:08.520 you can look at rotary and you can find the guys where they are and meet them where they are.

00:33:14.420 All right. I hope you guys can't hear my squeaking chair. It's been squeaking today. So

00:33:18.600 I apologize about that. It is what it is. Let's take a couple more. This one comes from Joshua Trott.

00:33:25.360 What's funny is that these, these questions or these names are so, so simple. I know,

00:33:31.320 I know Kip likes to butcher your names, but I can't help, but feel I've got some simple names today.

00:33:35.720 Okay. Joshua Trott. My question is about discernment from a dad perspective, when to apply

00:33:42.680 discipline or to apply compassion and empathy as a full-time dad, I am finding difficult to balance

00:33:49.860 fine filling both roles generally assigned to two parents. Uh, the premise is off on this one,

00:33:55.520 Joshua, the premise is way off. Okay. Let me, let me pick this apart a little bit out of,

00:34:00.040 out of a care for you. Okay. It's not, it's not to get after you. It's out of care for what we,

00:34:03.840 what we perceive here. Uh, the last sentence says I'm finding it difficult to balance filling

00:34:08.940 both roles generally assigned to two parents. Like who, who said that fathers can't be compassionate

00:34:16.140 and empathetic. Who, who, who told you that a mother can't have some discipline and structure

00:34:23.600 in her kids' life? Like that's not true. Now, generally, I know what you're saying is that

00:34:29.240 we might be more of the authoritarian and a wife might be more nurturing in her role,

00:34:35.800 but it's not that we can't be compassionate and empathetic. It's actually just the way that we

00:34:41.580 exhibit it. So let me give you an example. You've got a five or six year old and they're learning to

00:34:47.580 ride their bike and they're on the driveway and she looks at you and she's so happy. And she's got

00:34:52.060 her little tassels coming out of the end of her handlebars. And she's got the little pink and blue

00:34:56.240 Barbie bike. And she's, you know, get the helmet on or whatever. And she's driving, cycling around

00:35:01.880 the driveway and she's looking at you and he can't help but love that little smile. And then she

00:35:05.460 crashes and she scrapes her knee. And then mom rushes over and she's like, Oh my gosh, my princess,

00:35:13.100 let me, let me pick you up and let me wipe away your, your, your boo-boo with, with my own tears.

00:35:19.560 And then we'll put a Smurf bandaid on it and we'll just kiss you and hug you and love you. And

00:35:25.020 that's what women do. And what do men do? Hey hon, ow, that looks like it hurt. I'll stand right by

00:35:34.120 here. I'll stand right by you. Get up. You're okay. You can do it. I know, I know you want to

00:35:38.500 cry. Don't cry. Get up, wipe, go ahead and wipe that little gravel out of your knee right there.

00:35:44.000 Just wipe it off. Yep. Okay, good. Now get back on the bike. I'm going to give you a little push

00:35:48.540 and we're going to get going, right? That's what the dad does is one more empathetic than the other.

00:35:56.860 No, it's not more empathetic to put a Smurf bandaid on your daughter's knee who scrapes it

00:36:02.720 because she fell off the bike. Then it is to say, Hey hon, wipe it off and get back on the bike.

00:36:07.540 No, one is not more empathetic than the other. It's just a different approach to empathy.

00:36:12.960 See what the lens in which men view it is. I want to empower you. I want to make you strong.

00:36:19.960 I want to know that. I want you to know that you're capable of overcoming difficult and challenging

00:36:25.100 things. And a woman is like, I want you to know you're loved. I want you to know you're supported.

00:36:31.460 I want you to know you're in a safe place. I want you to feel important. You see, it's not wrong.

00:36:37.920 It's not wrong at all. It's just different. So I can be a disciplinary if I need to be,

00:36:45.560 because my kids are getting out of line and simultaneously be empathetic. Because if my

00:36:50.960 kid, my oldest son does something stupid, something he shouldn't be doing, and I discipline him for it,

00:36:56.300 aren't I being empathetic? Because if I wasn't, what would I do? Nothing. I would let him get away

00:37:02.240 with it, but I don't let him get away with it. Why? Because I care.

00:37:06.300 Yeah.

00:37:07.920 I care. I want my kids to win. I want them to thrive. And when they make poor choices,

00:37:14.020 I want them to experience the weight of their decisions so they don't make those poor choices

00:37:19.100 so they live a better life. That's empathy, my friend. That is empathy. I care. I feel you.

00:37:30.620 I know where you're coming from. I've been there. And when I was there, my dad and mom did this,

00:37:35.180 and it helped me and it served me. And so I'm going to exhibit the same characteristics. I'm

00:37:39.860 going to teach you the same lessons that I was taught as a young man. And that is the definition

00:37:45.220 of empathy. Now, women, they do the same thing and they're not being any less empathetic.

00:37:51.800 They're just exhibiting it in a different way. So let's get over the idea and the notion that

00:37:58.300 discipline has to be a hard-ass, hard-line stance. Like, I don't care about you and I'm going to be

00:38:03.260 a drill instructor. I mean, maybe it has some of that tinge to it, but it comes from a place of love,

00:38:09.260 of empathy, of care, of just genuine desire to sacrifice and serve your children long-term.

00:38:17.120 And that means you'll make better decisions in the short term. All right. Two more.

00:38:21.320 Bryn, Dubs, Taylor, or Brian. So, okay. I said these names were easy and then I get this one.

00:38:25.980 It's either Bryn or Brian, Dubs, Taylor. What does the average, quote, just getting by, unquote,

00:38:31.140 man waste the most money on that the successful man does not? I'm going to give you a very general

00:38:40.220 answer because it's different for everybody, but it's shit that doesn't move the needle.

00:38:45.220 So successful men will invest in themselves, right? They'll typically buy nicer clothes because

00:38:52.340 that's an investment in their image, which helps their influence. They'll invest in hobbies and tools

00:39:00.140 and equipment that are going to bring some sort of fulfillment, satisfaction, and joy into their

00:39:06.640 lives, which helps them have more peace and abundance and fulfillment. They'll hire coaches

00:39:12.260 and they'll hire mentors because they know if they hire a coach, then that coach is going to instruct

00:39:17.980 them on how to build their life better or build their business better. And then it becomes an

00:39:22.680 investment. So if I pay $10,000 for a coach and he teaches me something that yields a million dollars

00:39:28.640 or $10 million over my lifetime, I'm happily willing to make that trade. An unsuccessful man or a,

00:39:35.140 quote, just getting by man, like you said, will invest in things that aren't going to bring any sort

00:39:40.820 of long-term satisfaction or fulfillment. So they might drink, they might gamble, they might,

00:39:45.760 you know, who knows, buy all sorts of things that ultimately aren't going to serve them. They're going

00:39:52.900 to waste money. They're going to be just kind of, you know, frivolous with the way they spend it.

00:39:57.920 They aren't going to be real intelligent about how they put their money into important things.

00:40:03.220 They're going to buy cheap things typically more often than not because they don't see the value

00:40:07.520 of quality. This is what just getting by men wastes their money on. So it's not that they spend less.

00:40:15.740 I mean, they might relative to their income because they don't have as high income, but percentage-wise,

00:40:21.940 they're spending the same percentage of their money, a hundred percent. It's just on dumb things that

00:40:26.820 aren't going to yield any sort of return. But when I invest, it's like in books, it's in my family.

00:40:32.200 It's, Hey, I want a new bow because that's going to help me accomplish this. I'm going to hire a

00:40:36.480 mentor because he's going to accomplish this. I'm going to hire a new team member because they're

00:40:40.120 going to help me accomplish that. That's where high quality and high caliber men invest their money.

00:40:44.740 Things that are going to return. They look at investments. I guess you could also say

00:40:48.520 appreciating versus depreciating things, assets versus liabilities.

00:40:52.640 All right, guys, last one for today. This one comes from Mr. Bob Ross. He says,

00:40:58.880 I have a binder with all important documents and account info, insurance info, names of people who

00:41:04.440 would be helpful in the event of my untimely death. What other steps could I take to help my wife in

00:41:09.200 the event? I die suddenly attempting to protect and provide after my passing. Hey, first and foremost,

00:41:14.620 I commend you for having this in place. A lot of people don't, uh, sounds like you've got a lot of

00:41:18.820 bases covered. I would also say an electronic copy of these documents would be good. Uh, because,

00:41:23.860 you know, things get stolen, things get lost. If there's a fire, you know, documents get destroyed.

00:41:29.200 You might keep them in a, uh, uh, some sort of fire retardant safe. That'll keep these documents

00:41:35.460 preserved. And then also making sure that she knows where to go. If she needs these documents,

00:41:41.000 if there was an untimely death on your part. Um, I have a financial advisor and I have a friend who

00:41:46.900 actually bought our financial planning practice. My wife knows where all of our financial documents

00:41:51.180 and resources and all that stuff are, but she also knows to call Greg. If something happens to

00:41:55.880 me financially, she can call Greg and Greg's going to help her out because he has access to a lot of

00:41:59.980 this information as well. So having somebody, an advocate that could help in these situations,

00:42:06.840 but then also I would say making sure that she's involved in a day-to-day financial decisions

00:42:11.280 more often than not, this is not exclusive, but more often than not, the man handles the money

00:42:16.380 situation, right? So he does the budget. He has access to bank accounts. A lot of times he's the

00:42:21.560 one, he might be a sole, uh, bread earner, like, like I am within our family dynamic. And so a lot of

00:42:27.800 that falls on my shoulders, which is fine, but she needs to be involved in those processes.

00:42:32.120 So investments, passwords, insurance documents, legal documents, having another advocate or two

00:42:40.740 to help with some of these resources should something happen. And then making sure that

00:42:44.920 you're having a weekly meeting about money and financial situations, um, will help if that

00:42:50.640 unfortunate and tragic situation would ever happen. Okay. Good question. All right, guys,

00:42:57.160 I think we got through a lot here. Hopefully I gave you some good answers. Hopefully some of that

00:43:01.360 stuff serves you. That's ultimately the point. Um, we're going to be back, uh, well, uh, let's see

00:43:06.580 on Friday for our Friday field notes. And of course, next week for our interview show. And hopefully,

00:43:11.640 uh, next week, Kip and I will both be here, but, uh, we got a lot of stuff to do. We got a lot of work

00:43:16.320 to do. Keep the questions coming and, uh, we'll keep driving on. All right, you guys go out there,

00:43:20.920 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:43:26.620 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:43:30.420 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - April 06, 2022

Tough Conversations with Your Kids, Advice for a Happy Divorce, and Connecting with Male Role Models ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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