Order of Man - UFC LEGEND JIM MILLER ｜ Life as a Fighter

00:00:00.520 Most men have never been in a fight in their life, or at most, a handful.

00:00:04.520 So what does it take to enter the octagon and make a 16-year career, and counting, of

00:00:10.220 administering and receiving the brunt end of physical violence?

00:00:13.980 It's something my guest today, UFC legend Jim Miller, has done, and he's brought us

00:00:18.040 so many incredible moments in the world of professional MMA.

00:00:21.660 Today, Jim and I talk about what it takes to fight for a living and why he believes

00:00:25.560 he was built to fight.

00:00:26.560 We cover some of the highs and lows of his career, including his debilitating battle

00:00:31.540 with Lyme disease and also his recovery, how he shapes his training atmosphere for maximum

00:00:36.340 results, how to win and lose with class and grace, ensuring he never puts himself into

00:00:41.940 the victim role, and also his immense respect for men who step into the cage with him.

00:00:46.760 You're a man of action.

00:00:48.240 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:52.380 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:57.060 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:02.160 This is your life.

00:01:03.260 This is who you are.

00:01:04.660 This is who you will become.

00:01:06.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:13.240 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:15.720 I am Ryan Michler.

00:01:16.600 I'm the host and the founder of this movement that has been going strong for over nine years

00:01:21.180 now, and I just want to first and foremost say thank you for tuning in.

00:01:24.900 Thank you for listening.

00:01:25.980 Thank you for applying.

00:01:27.140 Thank you for sticking with me and this movement through the highs and lows of the past nearly

00:01:31.860 decade now.

00:01:32.880 If you are brand new to what we're doing here, I interview incredible men.

00:01:36.580 We've got Jim Miller on the podcast, Jocko Willink, Tim Tebow, Tim Kennedy, David Goggins,

00:01:43.620 Chris Williamson, Matthew McConaughey, Terry Crews.

00:01:47.460 We have so many incredible men who have joined in some capacity to share and impart their wisdom

00:01:53.000 with us, and it's my job to ask them interesting, unique, and powerful questions so that we can

00:01:59.380 learn from each other, and that's what this movement is all about, banding together, working

00:02:03.020 together as men all over the country for the betterment of ourselves and the people we love

00:02:07.820 and care about.

00:02:08.680 So I'm very excited for this conversation, long time in the works, with a very good man,

00:02:12.820 again, Jim Miller.

00:02:13.900 Before I get to that, I want to mention a friend and show sponsor, also a friend of Jim's.

00:02:19.140 You'll notice in the interviews, wearing Montana Knife Company merchandise because he believes

00:02:23.840 in what they're doing as well.

00:02:25.280 These guys make knives out of Montana, and the beautiful thing is it's all 100% made in 0.83

00:02:31.080 America.

00:02:31.600 So they're putting Montana workers to work.

00:02:34.160 They're bringing back manufacturing in America.

00:02:36.440 They're showing us how it's done.

00:02:37.960 And hopefully this drives other businesses to want to bring manufacturing here to this

00:02:44.500 country and help what we're building here.

00:02:47.020 If you're looking for a great knife, because as much as the USA made story is great, and

00:02:53.200 I love it, but you also need a good product, and their products are second to none.

00:02:58.140 So if you're looking for a good knife or a hunt that's coming up, or maybe you're doing

00:03:02.660 some work in the kitchen, they've got a beautiful culinary set that you can pick up, or just

00:03:07.000 an everyday carry, something that you carry around on your person to get the work done.

00:03:12.580 Again, MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:03:14.960 And if you end up picking something up, please use the code ORDEROFMAN at checkout because you'll

00:03:20.360 save some money when you do.

00:03:22.720 Again, MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:03:24.520 Use the code ORDEROFMAN.

00:03:26.040 All right, man, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:28.740 He is UFC legend, Jim A10 Miller.

00:03:31.760 He talks a little bit about in this podcast why his nickname is A10.

00:03:35.400 You're going to like that story.

00:03:36.780 He has a fight record of 37, 18, and 1, which makes him the UFC holder of the most fights

00:03:42.660 and most total wins.

00:03:44.640 He is also the only man to fight in UFC 100, 200, and 300.

00:03:50.360 So his resilience and longevity is second to none.

00:03:53.820 In addition to his incredible career, Jim is a married family man of four children.

00:03:58.620 He's an outdoor and hunting fishing enthusiast, and I believe one of the most solid men you'll

00:04:03.740 ever meet.

00:04:04.440 Enjoy this one, gents.

00:04:06.720 Jim, what's up, man?

00:04:07.700 Good to see you.

00:04:08.280 Technical difficulties, but such is the way of life, right?

00:04:12.080 Absolutely.

00:04:12.480 It's good to see you, man.

00:04:15.440 You shared some really cool stuff with me, and I caught probably, I don't know, 35% of it.

00:04:22.320 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:23.160 You know, it happens, right?

00:04:24.480 I live in the middle of the woods, so I never know if it's my connection to the internet or

00:04:28.640 anything like that.

00:04:29.680 So yeah, it's a pain living out here sometimes.

00:04:33.240 I see the Montana Knife Company hoodie.

00:04:36.520 Do you live in Montana, or where do you live?

00:04:38.980 I live in New Jersey, unfortunately.

00:04:41.120 Oh, New Jersey.

00:04:42.100 Still stuck here.

00:04:43.120 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:43.880 I mean, there are some rural parts.

00:04:45.620 You know, most people don't think or know that there are some rural parts of New Jersey

00:04:49.380 and even New York.

00:04:50.840 Most people think of lower Manhattan when they start thinking about that area, but there

00:04:54.560 are some rural parts that will allow.

00:04:57.900 Yep.

00:04:58.140 Yeah, the Appalachian Trail is like two miles that way.

00:05:02.000 Have you ever hiked it?

00:05:03.020 A little bit, a little bit.

00:05:05.920 Yeah.

00:05:06.200 I've got a friend of mine.

00:05:08.560 He actually over, I want to say three to four years, hiked the entire Appalachian Trail

00:05:13.680 with his family.

00:05:14.600 Oh, wow.

00:05:14.880 So he would take one summer, and he'd spend a month or two, and he'd hike part of it,

00:05:18.820 and then the next summer, another two months, and another two months, and another two months.

00:05:23.240 And so I was in Maine up until about a year ago, and unfortunately, that's the northernmost

00:05:30.340 point of the Appalachian Trail.

00:05:32.480 Unfortunately, I never took advantage of the opportunity to be out there and hike that. 0.97

00:05:37.820 That sucks. 0.81

00:05:39.100 Yeah. 0.99

00:05:39.520 Yeah.

00:05:39.720 So there's some really cool spots.

00:05:41.780 No doubt.

00:05:43.720 So the way we let off the conversation last time before anybody had the opportunity to

00:05:49.100 hear what we were talking about because of these technical difficulties is, as I was going

00:05:52.860 through, we've known each other for some time now, but as I was going through what I wanted

00:05:56.560 to talk with you about, the nickname A10 really stood out to me.

00:06:01.040 And, obviously, the Warthog is a fan favorite among men, but I'm very curious as to why

00:06:07.680 you chose that nickname for your fight nickname.

00:06:12.840 Well, you know, the name Jim Miller, it's kind of vanilla, right?

00:06:17.380 So it doesn't brand that well.

00:06:20.360 So, you know, I fought for years without a nickname, and I was finally like, you know,

00:06:24.980 like, let me try to, let's figure something out, right?

00:06:28.020 And there's like 19 UFC fighters that are the pit bull and assassin and all this stuff.

00:06:34.740 And, you know, when, when I was growing up, my, my uncle was a, he was a pilot in the Marine

00:06:41.080 Corps for the, flew the Ospreys.

00:06:43.220 And he gave us, my brothers and I, a calendar with all the fighter jets in it.

00:06:49.540 And I remember like the A10 was always my favorite, right?

00:06:53.600 And, you know, as I grew older, the more I learned about it, I was like, man, this is

00:06:57.020 like, you know, it's a, it's a gun they taught how to fly, essentially, right?

00:07:01.640 You know, so it's like, it's made to fight.

00:07:04.840 And that's kind of the way that I feel about myself.

00:07:07.200 It's like, I'm, I'm made to be a fighter.

00:07:10.580 You know, I'm, I'm, my, my athletic attributes are specifically for fighting, right?

00:07:18.620 Like, I've got a horrible vertical, got a terrible arm.

00:07:21.360 Like, there, there are lots of things that like, I, I get embarrassed doing, uh, when

00:07:26.060 it, when it comes to sports, but you know, like I, I was built to be a fighter.

00:07:30.500 So, uh, yeah, I, I always, I always loved it.

00:07:33.900 And, and, uh, it, uh, I feel like it kind of works, you know, it's, uh, it's, uh, so, uh,

00:07:40.600 uh, a little bit slower, you know, ugly looking plane.

00:07:44.160 I had the, I had the opportunity to, to, to go see some, uh, recently when I was out in

00:07:48.260 Vegas and yeah, you know, uh, a little off center, right?

00:07:51.480 The gun's a little off center.

00:07:52.560 I'm a little off center.

00:07:53.540 So it kind of just works.

00:07:55.780 That makes sense.

00:07:56.780 I like that.

00:07:57.360 You said it, it's a plane built around a weapon.

00:07:59.880 Cause it really is.

00:08:01.380 I've done a little bit of studying and cause it is an incredible machine and it really

00:08:06.340 is.

00:08:06.720 We're going to have a gun and then we got to figure out a way to get this thing up in

00:08:10.440 the air.

00:08:10.760 And that's really what they did.

00:08:12.180 Is there some, I want to say, did I see an article not too long ago about a revamp,

00:08:18.160 of the eight 10?

00:08:19.020 I don't know if you know anything about this, but I thought I saw a revamp of the eight

00:08:22.620 10.

00:08:23.980 Uh, I don't know.

00:08:24.920 I don't know.

00:08:25.360 Everything that I've heard is that they're trying to like, uh, decommission it in the

00:08:29.020 next, you know, uh, few years.

00:08:31.460 Uh, which again, it seems like it's kind of, uh, you know, I'm getting older, right?

00:08:36.680 This is the planes that I got to see were, you know, just as old as I am essentially.

00:08:41.100 Uh, yeah.

00:08:41.640 And they're trying to, trying to make it retire.

00:08:43.180 So, um, yeah.

00:08:44.380 Are you feeling decommissioned or what?

00:08:46.280 Uh, you know, in some aspects of it, yeah, I got, I got called, uh, the grandpa of the

00:08:54.060 UFC, quite a local, a local paper wrote that.

00:08:58.400 And I'm like, is this, is this somebody that like I beat up on the wrestling mats and then

00:09:02.340 became a, uh, a journalist that's, that's writing this.

00:09:05.340 Uh, yeah, it was a little bit of a dig.

00:09:07.500 Well, look, if you end up fighting again and we can talk a little bit about that, but I think 1.00

00:09:11.260 you ought to change that nickname to grandpa, Jim, grandpa Miller and go kick his ass. 0.99

00:09:15.660 Uh, absolutely. 1.00

00:09:18.460 Yeah.

00:09:18.680 How many more, how many more professional fights do you have left in you?

00:09:22.060 Uh, a few, a few, you know, it, it, for me, it's, it's not necessarily about the fights.

00:09:26.920 You know, this fight, I, I took a little bit damage, right?

00:09:29.360 I, I probably got the worst cut that I've ever gotten.

00:09:33.220 You know, I got 23 stitches, but then I broke my hand and, and my, uh, my toe in the fight

00:09:38.440 and, you know, in the grand scheme of things, pretty mild injuries, uh, compared to what

00:09:46.180 can happen, but, um, probably some of the worst, you know, uh, injuries that I've had

00:09:52.640 in the fight.

00:09:53.040 Um, but like, for me, it's all about the training camp, right?

00:09:56.880 Like if I can get through training camps, get into shape, be prepared, uh, and then perform,

00:10:01.680 um, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to continue to do it, uh, at least for a few more.

00:10:06.400 And, um, that's, that's really what it comes down to.

00:10:09.040 You know, this, this camp was, was, uh, not bad, you know, like it's definitely harder

00:10:14.140 for me to, to, to fight, you know, two times in three months, uh, nowadays, but, um, camp

00:10:21.380 went well, you know, fight wasn't my fight.

00:10:23.840 Uh, you know, I, I didn't, I didn't perform, um, but, uh, yeah, like I, I, I feel like it

00:10:29.420 was a winnable fight.

00:10:30.200 I had, I had some opportunities, uh, you know, even hurt and bleeding.

00:10:33.880 I, I, I rocked them a couple of times and, and, um, yeah, like, uh, we'll, we'll get a

00:10:39.320 few more in there and, um, you know, I kind of put it out there.

00:10:42.040 Like, I don't want to fight any more than 50 times in the UFC, which is a, a ridiculous

00:10:47.380 thing to say.

00:10:48.520 Uh, but that's another six fights, um, you know, two years if I'm, if I'm fighting the

00:10:54.420 way that, you know, at the pace that I want to fight.

00:10:56.640 Um, and I, and I think I've got that.

00:10:59.660 But I have your record at your professional record anyways, at 37, 18 and one.

00:11:03.680 So that puts you over 50 fights.

00:11:05.980 And am I off on that?

00:11:08.400 Uh, well that's, that's total fights.

00:11:10.140 So I had 12 fights prior to the UFC.

00:11:11.660 I've got it inside the UFC.

00:11:14.220 Got it.

00:11:14.720 So you're, so your goal, if I understand you correctly is to hit 50 fights in the UFC.

00:11:19.380 Yeah, that's, uh, it's a, you know, it's going to be a lofty one.

00:11:23.500 You know, it's, it's, it'll be a little bit tough, but, uh, uh, I like, I like putting

00:11:29.180 those types of goals that like, they're not easy, right?

00:11:31.800 Like I don't, I don't want it to be easy.

00:11:33.120 Otherwise I'm not going to make the goal.

00:11:34.560 So, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll see if we can get it done.

00:11:37.320 And, uh, yeah, if everything goes the way it's been going the last couple of years, I

00:11:41.760 think I'll be able to do it.

00:11:43.100 I, I've got so many questions for you.

00:11:45.200 First, your, your last fight, was it April?

00:11:48.680 Was it 13th?

00:11:49.700 April 13th, right?

00:11:50.640 Yep.

00:11:50.840 Uh, what UFC was that?

00:11:53.200 300?

00:11:54.760 That was 300.

00:11:55.780 Yes.

00:11:56.100 300.

00:11:56.940 You're the first person to fight in 100, 200 and 300.

00:12:01.100 The only person.

00:12:01.980 Yeah.

00:12:02.700 Only person.

00:12:03.380 Yeah.

00:12:03.700 Yeah.

00:12:04.420 And, uh, I'm very curious about that.

00:12:06.900 23 stitches.

00:12:07.740 You said two weeks later, you know, no homo here, but you look, you look unbelievable. 1.00

00:12:14.640 Thank you.

00:12:15.600 Thank you.

00:12:16.220 Yeah.

00:12:16.460 You know, uh, I've always been a pretty quick healer, right?

00:12:19.480 So, uh, like even to the point where like my hand is broken, but they didn't cast it.

00:12:23.960 Like I went to the hand specialist the other day and he's like, yeah, no, it's, it's healing

00:12:28.300 well. 1.00

00:12:28.540 Don't do anything stupid. 1.00

00:12:29.660 You know? 1.00

00:12:30.200 So he gave me a wrap and stuff to put on it.

00:12:32.040 But like, he's like, yeah, the way I, I guess the way I broke it, it kind of crushed

00:12:36.300 in and, and, uh, it's not, it's not going anywhere unless I do something really bad, like

00:12:42.220 hit somebody with it.

00:12:43.080 So, um, yeah, it should be fine.

00:12:45.800 So is the secret genetics and physiology, or is there some secret?

00:12:49.440 Cause I see guys like Chandler and other people.

00:12:51.640 I'm like, how the hell does this guy recover in a matter of three, four, five days where

00:12:55.800 I'd be banged up for months?

00:12:58.120 Uh, I honestly, I do think that it's, uh, we all, we all must share some, some type of

00:13:03.220 genetics, uh, when it comes to that.

00:13:05.380 Right.

00:13:05.600 Because to, to be able to go through training camps over and over again and take the, take

00:13:10.380 the beating that you put on yourself, you have to be able to recover quickly.

00:13:14.180 And I think that if you, if you didn't have that ability, you would probably not get too

00:13:20.940 far into your career, um, you know, fighting it, fighting at the highest level.

00:13:24.780 So, um, yeah, I, I think that there are a lot of guys that seem to have the same, like,

00:13:29.720 uh, you know, Wolverine style, uh, healing factor.

00:13:33.840 Um, but, uh, yeah, like it's, uh, you know, like the, the whole career thing, right.

00:13:41.240 And like 44 fights in UFC, there's, there's, there's a lot of genetics and, and, and luck

00:13:45.620 involved in it too.

00:13:46.540 And, and, uh, you know, there's definitely design, right?

00:13:49.340 Like I, I try not to make the same mistakes twice and I'm actually, you know, uh, I pay

00:13:54.340 attention to it and I, and I'm, and I'm, uh, very hard on myself, you know, uh, so, so I

00:13:59.780 don't make those mistakes twice.

00:14:01.080 So, um, yeah, I, I think that, uh, you know, being, being born to the parents that I was

00:14:09.420 born to is, it definitely helped me, uh, along the way here.

00:14:12.680 So, so you said a word, you said luck and, and whenever, but anybody that says that I,

00:14:17.520 I, I kind of cringe internally, but you're talking about who you're born to, immutable

00:14:22.180 characteristics, people you were born to, things you had no control over.

00:14:24.920 You're not talking about like, I'm just a lucky dude.

00:14:26.880 You're just saying, Hey, I was, I was born in America.

00:14:29.960 I've got good parents.

00:14:30.940 I've gotten some good genes that are built for fighting.

00:14:33.460 Or is there something more to it?

00:14:35.140 Cause I don't generally like that word luck because people ascribe hard work to luck and

00:14:42.020 it discounts what a guy like you has to go through in order to play at the level you play

00:14:46.820 at.

00:14:47.940 You know, uh, the, the thing is I've, I've, I've lived this life for what is it?

00:14:54.100 Almost 20 years now.

00:14:55.040 Right.

00:14:55.440 Uh, it'll be, it'll be 19 years, uh, in like a few weeks.

00:15:00.560 Right.

00:15:01.040 That, that I started training to, to compete in MMA.

00:15:04.640 Um, and I have seen a lot of very talented, very athletic fighters just have one bad day

00:15:14.060 and it, and it costs them.

00:15:16.040 Right.

00:15:16.560 You know, and, and like the, I, I know that there is like, like, yeah, like I don't, I'm

00:15:25.280 not a big fan of the, the, the word luck.

00:15:27.260 Right.

00:15:27.880 And like the, cause like I said, there's, there's, there is design.

00:15:31.020 There's design to the way that I've, I've, uh, created my life and I've, and I've created

00:15:36.340 my team.

00:15:37.000 Um, but to not, to not have one of those devastating injuries at practice, um, you know, like when

00:15:47.020 I wasn't doing all the right things, um, yeah, there, there, there probably is just a little

00:15:51.420 bit of, a little bit of luck.

00:15:53.060 Cause I, like I said, I've seen, I've seen one group sparring fall into another group and

00:15:58.500 somebody blow their knee out because of it.

00:16:00.700 And it's like, that's, it's controllable to a degree, right?

00:16:05.000 Like coaches should be controlling things.

00:16:07.860 Uh, uh, fighters in the match should, it should have control over where they're, where they 1.00

00:16:12.060 are in relation to everybody else, because in a fight you need to be controlling in relation

00:16:18.080 to the cage and everything as well.

00:16:19.800 Um, but it's also just bad luck sometimes where somebody just something, something bad

00:16:27.220 happens, you know?

00:16:28.080 And, and, uh, yeah, like fortunately, you know, knock on wood that, uh, none of those

00:16:33.560 types of injuries have happened to me.

00:16:35.460 I think also, and look, I'm trying to do it justice and like, I don't, I, the luck thing,

00:16:40.720 I'm, I'm a little hesitant about saying it, but I also know it's a law of large numbers.

00:16:44.700 You know, I, I, um, I have the opportunity of, of being the quote unquote,

00:16:49.800 quote team photographer for my oldest son's lacrosse team.

00:16:53.040 And there's some kids who are naturally talented and they just get it.

00:16:56.920 Their athletic IQ is developed relative to others.

00:17:02.380 Uh, there's other kids who I think are meant to, uh, pursue the arts and other kids who

00:17:07.980 are meant to pursue STEM, for example.

00:17:11.380 Uh, so it's difficult because when we look at somebody performing at the highest levels

00:17:16.120 like you have, we think, oh, this guy's done everything right.

00:17:19.420 But also if we're looking at it, honestly, it is the law of large numbers and you, for

00:17:25.540 whatever reason, through physiology, through hard work, determination, mindset, et cetera,

00:17:29.420 and maybe a little luck, like you're talking about have climbed through the ranks that other

00:17:33.980 people do.

00:17:35.840 But, but you said something interesting.

00:17:37.380 You said design.

00:17:39.200 Do you feel like that's solely your design?

00:17:41.540 Or when I hear you say that, I also feel like maybe I'm off, but I'm hearing a little bit

00:17:47.460 of like design as in the creator's design, but maybe I'm way off.

00:17:51.080 What do you think about that?

00:17:53.120 Um, I think it's, it's more so, uh, just by like me shaping my, uh, my training atmosphere,

00:18:01.700 right?

00:18:02.820 Like, um, I, I started my own gym about 10 years ago.

00:18:07.520 Um, and it was a difficult decision to make.

00:18:10.820 Um, you know, we were dealing with some of the big gym drama and issues, uh, that, that,

00:18:16.340 uh, that often are dealt with.

00:18:19.040 Um, and you know, I lost training partners.

00:18:22.740 I lost coaches in, in, in doing that.

00:18:24.940 Um, but I also really whittled things down to like, Hey, I don't have to worry about

00:18:31.640 some, some new guy that a lot of times, you know, doesn't speak English or, or doesn't

00:18:38.360 speak it very well and doesn't really get the culture of the gym.

00:18:41.420 And, and, um, it comes in and it's like, you sees a target on your back, you know, during

00:18:47.160 a training day.

00:18:48.620 Um, you know, so like I, I kind of created an environment where, um, um, I was like,

00:18:54.940 um, it was smaller, it was tighter.

00:18:57.320 Um, definitely lost out on bodies and, and, and, uh, uh, skill sets and stuff like that.

00:19:04.620 But, um, yeah, just, just, uh, just making it not so like, not so like ego driven is what

00:19:13.080 kind of ends up happening.

00:19:14.040 Sometimes in these bigger gyms, you get a bunch of, you know, fighters in there and everybody's

00:19:18.900 trying to, uh, win that day as opposed to get everybody better.

00:19:22.440 It is interesting.

00:19:24.640 Cause I've trained not, obviously not nearly to the degree that you have.

00:19:28.120 And I know that when things go well, it's because I go in there and experiment and learn

00:19:32.660 and try new things.

00:19:33.520 When things don't go well, it's cause I'm trying to submit somebody and, and I, I fall

00:19:38.780 into my default patterns.

00:19:39.960 I fall into things that I'm comfortable with and know, and I may not even train against

00:19:44.820 upper belts because I'm more worried about winning than I am about learning and growing.

00:19:48.920 Um, yeah, you know, it's, uh, it's a, it's a fine balance.

00:19:54.860 You got to walk, right?

00:19:55.560 Like you have to, you have to train yourself and it's like that, that playful aspect, right?

00:20:00.240 Like that's where we're going to make gains.

00:20:02.400 That's where you're going to, uh, usually be like a lot, you know, uh, I mean, I don't

00:20:10.020 know if safer is the right word, but like, you're just kind of goofing off sometimes on

00:20:14.380 the mat and just, just, just working with new things.

00:20:16.580 Right.

00:20:16.840 And Rogan, Rogan always says like beat up blue belts, right?

00:20:19.500 That's how he, he, he thinks, uh, everybody should get better at jujitsu.

00:20:23.680 Um, and my whole thing was that I was always competing with my brother who's five inches

00:20:28.640 taller than me, 30 pounds heavier than me.

00:20:31.380 Uh, and he was always the guy that I was trying to beat, you know?

00:20:35.140 And like, we would go back and forth, you know, through the years of like, I'd have a good

00:20:39.280 couple of weeks and he didn't have a good couple of weeks and like, uh, you know, and

00:20:44.680 like over the years, I kind of figured out like, okay, like there, there are times where

00:20:48.240 I have to, um, where, you know, I, I have to focus on like, all right, what are my strengths?

00:20:54.400 I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to roll or I'm going to spar and I'm going to go

00:20:57.780 to my strengths and just, and beat people.

00:21:00.800 Um, and then there are times where it's like, Hey, like, let's just play.

00:21:03.980 And like, if you get submitted or you get caught in something and you get taken down this

00:21:07.880 and that like, whatever, like, we're just, we're just trying to learn new things, learn

00:21:11.420 new movements and, and, and, and pathways.

00:21:14.180 And, uh, yeah, like it's, uh, having that, uh, having that playful mindset, it's, it's,

00:21:20.820 it's important.

00:21:21.540 It's definitely important sometimes.

00:21:22.800 There's obviously the times to get, to get serious and get into it and to, you know, like,

00:21:27.540 like today we win, but you know, I have to learn how to balance that.

00:21:33.300 Man, I'm just going to step away from the conversation very briefly.

00:21:36.060 Uh, if you're looking for some new gear this spring, uh, and summer, including our best

00:21:40.820 selling 12 week battle planner, look no further than store.orderofman.com that's store.orderofman.com.

00:21:47.640 I just returned from a trip to Maine to pick up and restock all of our shirts, hats, beanies,

00:21:53.880 planners, decals, patches, all of it.

00:21:57.080 And I've received over the past 12 months, so many emails about when we're going to be restocking.

00:22:03.500 And I'm happy to say that we finally are.

00:22:05.920 So if you want to look good this spring and summer, and you want to support this grassroots

00:22:10.100 movement, that is order of man, please head to store.orderofman.com.

00:22:15.140 My oldest son and I, we fulfill those orders, uh, ourselves.

00:22:19.120 And so we have a good time doing that.

00:22:20.580 We have conversations together and, uh, we're, we're doing the work with your support.

00:22:25.620 So again, check out store.orderofman.com.

00:22:28.540 Do that right after the conversation.

00:22:30.140 And for now, I'll get back to it with Jim.

00:22:33.940 Jim, what's up, man?

00:22:34.900 It's good to have you back.

00:22:35.940 We tried to do part one and the guys probably don't know this, but we had some major internet

00:22:41.520 issues on Friday.

00:22:43.660 So we figured we'd take Sunday and do part two of this discussion.

00:22:46.740 The first one was only like 20 or 30 minutes.

00:22:49.400 Yeah.

00:22:51.060 Yeah.

00:22:51.480 You know, uh, I live, I live in the middle of the woods.

00:22:53.920 So like, it's usually my fault, right?

00:22:56.100 When, when wifi gets spotty and all that stuff.

00:22:58.680 So I'll take full blame for that, uh, falling through the other day.

00:23:02.500 All good.

00:23:03.100 You know, I guess that's just part of the deal.

00:23:04.640 And I think it's okay that people hear it because we have to have some, some level of

00:23:09.400 flexibility, some level of resilience.

00:23:11.180 I know there's a lot of guys out there when things don't go right or things don't always

00:23:16.280 work according to plan.

00:23:17.220 It's like their whole universe crumbles.

00:23:18.900 And obviously that's not going to be conducive to any measure of success in life.

00:23:23.300 I'm sure you're familiar, familiar with that, especially in your line of work when, when

00:23:28.300 somebody else also has a say in the matter about how you perform on any given night in

00:23:33.580 a fight.

00:23:35.560 Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:36.640 You know, uh, uh, I try to consider I can actually control, you know, and over the years

00:23:45.680 I've learned that two things that I can fully control and that's my effort and my attitude.

00:23:52.500 Um, everything else there's, there's always something that bring the, you know, an opponent

00:23:57.180 has a, has a, has a choice or, or whatever.

00:24:00.460 There's, there's, uh, lots of variables and everything.

00:24:03.180 So, um, yeah, I just try to do it and, and, you know, keep my head screwed on.

00:24:08.180 Right.

00:24:08.500 And, uh, control the effort that I put into every task.

00:24:12.540 Well, what, what, what is it like when you, when you show up, I mean, obviously with,

00:24:18.900 with your career and the amount of, of times you've stepped in and had these fights, how

00:24:23.920 do you deal with the adversity if the night doesn't go according to plan?

00:24:28.240 Cause you know, when most people fail, it's, it's a few people know about it when you don't

00:24:35.820 perform the way that you want to, or it doesn't quite go your way.

00:24:38.580 Even if you do perform the way you want to, it's very public, uh, literally hundreds of

00:24:44.140 thousands, if not millions of people are going to watch, you know, two, uh, two seconds

00:24:48.160 of, of, uh, of something that maybe you, you didn't quite read, right, or it didn't quite

00:24:52.900 go the way you wanted it to.

00:24:54.240 And all of a sudden, you know, that becomes an indictment on who you are because of a two 0.81

00:24:57.500 second snippet.

00:24:58.380 Millions of people will see.

00:24:59.560 Um, you know, uh, like you said, yeah, there's, there's, uh, you know, I'm, I'm stepping into

00:25:07.700 a cage against somebody that, that has an opinion that's prepared for weeks for me.

00:25:11.760 Um, yeah.

00:25:12.740 And sometimes things just don't like fire.

00:25:16.520 They, they just don't, they just don't, uh, come together in a fight.

00:25:19.460 And, uh, I, I've never been the type that I, to look back, you know, like, uh, I, I'm always

00:25:25.720 focused on the next steps and what I can do, uh, to prevent those, those types of things

00:25:33.480 from happening, you know, the, the next time out.

00:25:35.660 Right.

00:25:36.140 And, and something that I've learned, uh, you know, over the years too, um, is that like

00:25:41.520 one of the, one of the things that means the most to me is like the respect for my peers.

00:25:45.220 Right.

00:25:46.020 And like, I, I look at the other fighters that have committed their lives to this sport and,

00:25:52.400 uh, like the, the, the legends of the sport that I consider the, you know, the, the Fedors

00:25:59.320 and, and Henzo and, uh, Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes and he's got like, they've never,

00:26:04.980 they've never given me crap on the internet.

00:26:07.320 Right. 0.64

00:26:07.780 They, they, they've never, uh, like trolled me, you know, after a fight.

00:26:12.400 Right.

00:26:12.660 These are the guys that, that created this sport for me and created a, uh, uh, uh, you know,

00:26:18.740 my fascination with it.

00:26:20.100 And, uh, like if I go out and, and they're not speaking negatively on me, then like, what

00:26:27.420 does it matter to me if somebody that's never actually put gloves on their hands is going

00:26:31.820 to, is going to say something.

00:26:32.840 So, um, yeah, I, I try to just like focus on like carrying myself to, to my set of standards

00:26:41.800 that I've created, which are high, you know, like I, I definitely have high self and, and

00:26:48.100 kind of portray and, and who I want to be.

00:26:52.320 Um, and yeah, like I, I kind of know that I'm not going to fully, uh, live up to those

00:26:58.480 standards, but, uh, yeah, like if I do that, then those guys that I consider legends of the

00:27:03.180 sport are going to appreciate what I do in there.

00:27:05.360 And, um, yeah, like, like you said, there's, there could be millions of people that, that

00:27:09.680 see me on a bad day, but, um, very, very few of those people have, have done what I do.

00:27:16.500 So it's, uh, you know, everybody's entitled to their opinion.

00:27:20.020 It's just that certain opinions have a little more weight than others, you know?

00:27:24.560 So, uh, yeah, I, I try to, uh, just look at it that way and, and, and keep doing what

00:27:29.820 I'm doing.

00:27:30.100 Cause I'm, I'm here for a reason.

00:27:32.140 Yeah, no, it's a great way to look at it.

00:27:34.020 And, you know, there's, there's, it seems like there's usually two schools of thought.

00:27:37.500 One, one says everybody's opinion matters equally, which is not the case.

00:27:42.660 And the other says nobody's opinion matters.

00:27:44.660 And I don't think that's the case.

00:27:45.940 There are people in my life whose opinion I care about.

00:27:49.400 So I think it's healthy when you're talking about guys that you look up to specifically

00:27:54.120 in, in, in your career, those opinions matter like that.

00:27:58.440 That is important to you because that's going to help you see what you can do and what you're

00:28:02.320 capable of.

00:28:02.940 And even if those people do share something, that's not trolling you, but just some healthy

00:28:06.920 criticism or critique, if you take it correctly, it could actually make you better.

00:28:11.420 If you actually care about what these individuals say.

00:28:14.860 Absolutely.

00:28:15.740 Absolutely.

00:28:16.320 Yeah.

00:28:16.640 You know, so, uh, yeah.

00:28:19.340 And I, I mean, that's the, that's the thing, right?

00:28:21.020 Like if, if one of those guys comes up to me and says like, Hey, you know, Jim, that

00:28:25.960 was, you should, you should, uh, you know, reassess, you should be a little embarrassed

00:28:30.040 the way you carried yourself or something like that.

00:28:31.640 Then I'm going to, I'm going to take it to heart, um, where, yeah, it's, uh, you know,

00:28:37.420 we live, we live in this world where there's, there's instant access to us because of our

00:28:42.920 phones and social media and all that stuff.

00:28:44.900 And, and as a fighter, we're, we're very, uh, accessible, um, in, in terms of like professional

00:28:52.200 athletes, we're, we're super accessible compared to some of our peers and other sports.

00:28:56.800 Um, so yeah, like it, if some, with an account that they obviously just use for, for trolling

00:29:05.080 people, you know, comes on and says something silly, it's like, all right, well, you know,

00:29:10.740 sometimes I'll just goof off with them and, and, and, uh, you know, push their buttons

00:29:14.140 back a little bit, but, um, yeah, you, you, you can't take it to heart.

00:29:18.840 Yeah.

00:29:19.800 You said, uh, you, you talked about you holding yourself to this very high standard and clearly

00:29:24.560 that's the case.

00:29:25.300 You know, when somebody sees you perform and to the level which you have performed for a

00:29:29.200 long time now requires you to be that way.

00:29:31.680 Do you find yourself not giving yourself grace or, or not allowing yourself to, you know,

00:29:39.620 make mistakes or is there a balance there for you?

00:29:42.540 What does that look like for you?

00:29:43.780 Cause I know for me, it's hard when I do screw up, I'm really self-critical and, and I get

00:29:48.520 down on myself and beat myself up in a way.

00:29:50.800 Do you do the same thing or have you found grace in, in some of those moments of, you know,

00:29:54.700 not showing up the way you'd like to?

00:29:56.040 Um, you know, more so the, the, the standards that I set upon myself, like I, I, I know that

00:30:05.140 like I could go out and I could, I could do everything right and I could still lose a fight.

00:30:09.740 Um, you know, it's, it's a, it's a fine line that we're walking.

00:30:13.000 So it's, it's not necessarily like the fight it's, it's how I carry myself.

00:30:21.960 You know, that's, that's the pressure that I put on myself.

00:30:24.480 That's the, you know, uh, uh, when I'm really like kind of, you know, heavy on myself is

00:30:30.060 like, Hey, did you do the right things?

00:30:31.960 Like, are you doing, are you being a good example to your kids and to, and to the other

00:30:35.860 kids watching?

00:30:36.500 Are you, are you, uh, are you a good man?

00:30:40.920 Right.

00:30:41.340 You know, so like I could still go out and, you know, and lose a fight and still be a good

00:30:45.800 man.

00:30:46.700 Um, and yeah, like that's where I, I, I'm really hard on myself is, is.

00:30:54.480 How I've carried myself through adversity, you know, um, you know, like I, I've been

00:31:00.080 asked quite a few times, like, ah, is there a fight that you'd like to have back?

00:31:02.840 And, you know, like the, the more that I think about it, it's like, yeah, my fight with Lyme

00:31:06.840 disease, you know, like I, I'd, I'd rather that didn't happen all the other fights.

00:31:11.600 Hey man, it's a, it's a, it's a flip of the coin when it comes down to it.

00:31:15.020 You know, you, you go out into a fight, it's 15 minutes.

00:31:17.380 You, you try to create momentum.

00:31:19.240 Sometimes it doesn't happen.

00:31:20.400 And sometimes somebody has your number or sometimes you just don't perform, but the

00:31:26.140 fight with, you know, with Lyme, like, yeah, like that, that was kind of one of those things

00:31:30.060 where it's, it sets my career apart from a lot of my, my peers in having to deal with

00:31:36.120 that.

00:31:36.400 Um, and yeah, like I, I wish that didn't happen, but you know, the, the, the, the example that

00:31:45.700 I lead carrying myself through that, through that BS of getting bit by a tick, not knowing

00:31:52.000 about it, get having, having Lyme disease, uh, undiagnosed for essentially three years.

00:31:57.780 Um, and then going through the process of, of, of healing it, which was just as brutal

00:32:03.420 on me, um, you know, like my goal was to, to not be a martyr and, and to carry myself

00:32:11.180 through that, that hard time with, with grace and, and, and, you know, humility and, and,

00:32:19.360 uh, not like playing the victim role.

00:32:22.920 Um, you know, and I, and I, and I think I've, I've done that pretty well, you know, like I,

00:32:27.600 I, I try to talk about it a little bit, but I try not to like make it the biggest thing,

00:32:32.680 but, um, it's a, yeah, it's a, like that, that's, that's the hardest part is like in

00:32:42.280 failure and in the hard times is still, still doing the right thing, you know, cause that's

00:32:48.640 when, when people do have that, uh, that, uh, uh, maybe the urge to, to, to kind of break

00:32:55.920 their standards a little bit and to not live up to those standards that they, they put on

00:32:59.640 themselves. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's not easy. Um, and I've definitely faltered

00:33:04.680 that's for sure. But, um, you know, like there's always to like, you know, I got, I got four

00:33:11.200 kids looking up to me and, you know, they're my biggest fans and I want them to, to look

00:33:17.020 at me and be like, Hey, you know, like he might not have won every fight, but like he carried

00:33:21.040 himself through those hard times, you know, and, and did the right thing.

00:33:27.660 Yeah. That's a good litmus test. So with your, with your kids, uh, what do they think about,

00:33:32.740 about what you do? You know, they, do they watch the fights? Do you like, I don't know

00:33:36.820 how old they are, but do they watch and, and are they scared? Is it, is it something they

00:33:41.500 enjoy and if they see value in, or is it something they don't like at all? What's that like?

00:33:45.860 Uh, you know, this last one was tough, right? This last one was tough because I was, I was

00:33:50.300 bleeding everywhere, uh, for, for half the fight. Uh, you know, my, my older son, he's

00:33:56.340 12. Uh, he texts me after he's like, how you, you know, how you feeling? And I was like,

00:34:01.220 I'm good, buddy. You know? And he's like, that was a pretty brutal one. And I was like,

00:34:04.140 yeah, man, like it's, that's the way it goes. Uh, so my, my kids are 13, 12, 10, and my

00:34:11.100 young was to be nine in a few days. Uh, so like they're getting to that age where they

00:34:17.960 understand what I do. Um, you know, they've, they've been around it their whole lives. Um,

00:34:23.640 you know, my, my oldest was born in 2010. So like I had already been in UFC for a year

00:34:30.980 and a half when she was born, uh, almost two years. So, um, they've, they've seen it.

00:34:37.680 They've, they've, they've been to events. Uh, and I, I, they've, they've seen me train

00:34:43.880 plenty of times, you know? Um, I still do feel like it kinda, it goes over their head

00:34:52.260 a little bit sometimes, you know, that's cause it's like, you know, what, what I do in the

00:34:57.040 octagon, I take it very seriously. Uh, you know, there's a part of me that wishes I could

00:35:01.780 have a little more fun with it sometimes, but like, it's, it's not one of those things

00:35:05.700 that I can like, uh, you know, I see some of my peers that like do these fancy walkouts

00:35:10.260 and stuff like that. And it's like, Hey, look like they're having fun, you know, like, like

00:35:14.140 we should have fun doing this stuff. Right. Technically it's still entertainment, right?

00:35:18.660 It's a competition, but it's entertainment.

00:35:20.520 So they need to, they need to come to all the events that it sounds like don't, you're

00:35:25.380 my good luck charms here. Don't, don't be missing my fights. I need you here. You know,

00:35:30.700 I, I think too, where they're, they're still fairly young, you know, they're, as they're

00:35:34.820 getting older. Uh, it sounds like you guys are having open discussion about it too.

00:35:38.860 You know? And I, I think that's probably the key is because, because of what you do, it's

00:35:43.320 so, it's so visible, you know, physically they can see what's going, they see what's

00:35:47.680 happening in a fight. They can see what you're wearing on your face. Uh, you know, the, the,

00:35:51.780 the scars and the bruises from the fight itself. I think your ability to talk with them and

00:35:56.920 communicate effectively with them and help them understand is something that I'm not necessarily

00:36:01.700 great at, but it is something I'm trying to work on is making sure that I'm addressing

00:36:05.780 their fears or doubts or concerns. So there's no assumptions in it because I don't want my

00:36:10.760 kids to assume, you know, usually when, when they do assume people make assumptions, it

00:36:15.100 usually goes the wrong way. They're not assuming the right things. And I don't want them to

00:36:18.420 have to fill in the blanks. I want to help understand, help them understand and clearly communicate

00:36:23.460 what's happening and going on. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a fine

00:36:30.640 line, I guess, as an, uh, as a parent, especially these days too. Right. Like, uh, you know, my,

00:36:35.880 my kids see me fight people. Right. So like they, they understand that, you know, like they're,

00:36:48.240 they're exposed to physical violence, like all the time. Like every time they watch me train,

00:36:52.620 every time they watch me fight, they, they see it. They boys are wrestling. My oldest,

00:36:58.480 she's done some, uh, some Muay Thai and stuff like that. And she actually wrestled when she 1.00

00:37:03.120 was younger. Um, you know, and they're like kind of getting to that age where I could start to like

00:37:07.800 really kind of bring them into it, you know? Um, and so, yeah, it's like, kind of like, Hey,

00:37:14.000 like, here's the deal. Like I, I can show you moves. I can show you how to fight, but we need to

00:37:19.340 understand when is the right time to use the stuff that I'm showing you, you know? And that's a,

00:37:25.200 that's a, that's a balance that I, that I have to, to, to, to meet, you know, like, listen,

00:37:29.840 like you guys are allowed to, you're allowed to finish a fight, you know, like, but you're not

00:37:33.400 allowed to start a fight, you know? So, uh, there, there have been a couple instances, you know,

00:37:38.920 like, of course it's my oldest. She likes to, uh, she's, she's very protective. So, uh, she's,

00:37:45.980 she's been, she's been in a couple of scuffles, but, uh, you know, the, they, they, they seem to

00:37:52.480 be getting that where it's like, Hey, like, um, you know, there, there is a, there is a line,

00:37:58.860 like what, what I do is a, is a profession and, and it's, uh, it's a competition and a form of

00:38:05.660 entertainment, but it's also like, it's a tool that you could use in life. And I, I, you know,

00:38:12.560 my job as a father is to, you know, to, to protect and to educate and provide for my kids.

00:38:19.820 Right. Like that's so, so they don't, they don't see violence outside of, you know, me training or,

00:38:24.880 or, or fighting. Like it's, it just, it just doesn't exist because I use my, my brain and our

00:38:29.900 feet, you know, and, and we avoid any situation where that would be the case. So, um, I'm trying to,

00:38:36.580 I'm trying to raise them to be, you know, capable and, and, and, and be able to fight,

00:38:42.560 but also use their minds and their, and, you know, uh, and, and the running shoes to get away

00:38:48.180 if they need to. Yeah. I mean, that's the best defense, right. Is just not to get into these types

00:38:53.560 of situations. Obviously you're voluntarily stepping into one, but outside of the ring or the octagon,

00:38:59.320 yeah, the goal is not to get into these sorts of situations. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

00:39:05.320 You said your daughter's protective when, when, when she's in that mode, is it protective

00:39:09.660 of her siblings? Like what, what is she protective of? What is it that she's, she's, uh, her mindset

00:39:15.400 is. My, my, my oldest, she's, uh, you know, my, like my dad is, uh, he was at least before

00:39:22.660 he like squished himself through carrying heavy stuff. Uh, he was like six, four to 40 big,

00:39:27.900 big dude. Um, even bigger, like personality type. My daughter got my dad's jeans. Like she's

00:39:35.320 she's almost as tall as I am at 13. Uh, you know, it, she'll probably start slowing down 0.99

00:39:42.180 at this point, but, um, you know, like she, she could be taller than I am. And, uh, so

00:39:47.260 she's, she's protective of her friends because she is, she's like a bigger kid, you know, like

00:39:54.420 she's, she's, uh, she's probably like five, five at this point at 13 years old, which is

00:40:00.280 way taller than I was. Um, so yeah, she's protective of her friends and, and, uh, you

00:40:06.440 know, and, and her siblings, but I think a majority of the times it's happened, it's,

00:40:10.700 it's been with her, with her friends. Yeah. Well, that's good. It's a good, it's a good

00:40:15.800 characteristic to have. It's just something, and it's funny because all kids are different,

00:40:19.620 right? And so what one, what one child has as a virtuous, uh, characteristic, I would say

00:40:26.340 is being protective. Uh, but also it becomes something that it could be used, like you said

00:40:32.720 earlier in the wrong context. And it, it becomes a hindrance as opposed to something that could

00:40:38.120 positively impact your lives, your life and people around you as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I want

00:40:44.540 to go back to, cause you were talking about Lyme disease. So one thing, if, if you don't mind

00:40:48.940 sharing, so you were bit by a tick and, but no symptoms or anything like that for three years. And

00:40:54.520 by then, cause if I understand correctly, when you're ticks are disgusting little creatures and

00:40:59.900 so they, they're all sorts of nasty illnesses. Um, if you catch it early, I think there's a heavy,

00:41:07.220 very heavy dose or rounds of antibiotics that, that take care of the issue. But when it sets in

00:41:12.880 like that, I imagine treating it is a completely different course of action. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So,

00:41:20.340 um, you know, Lyme is one of those, the, those illnesses that's like, there's, there's new

00:41:26.140 stuff coming out every day. Right. There's, there's not enough funding for it. Um, you know, and, and

00:41:31.740 it, it, it's, uh,

00:41:35.760 you know, like the, the, the government was using ticks as a vector. So, well, you know, like they were,

00:41:45.720 they were researching, right. So it's like, it almost has things about it that you're like,

00:41:51.260 if you were going to make something like it's, uh, maybe it would be this, but, um, because the

00:41:58.520 bacteria can, it can cross the blood brain barrier. Um, you know, and, and so what happened

00:42:04.200 to me is I, I believe that I was bit in, uh, like, like late May, early June of 2013. Um,

00:42:12.780 I had an initial set of symptoms. Uh, I don't really get headaches. Um, and I had like migraines.

00:42:20.140 I ended up getting like seven migraines in 10 days or something like that. And, um, yeah, I had,

00:42:26.940 I had a bunch of like, I was, I was really nauseous to, um, like to the point where bringing the garbage

00:42:32.900 out to the end of the driveway, I'd be like dry heaving the whole way for like two weeks,

00:42:37.100 three weeks. It was, uh, it was really weird. Um, so because of like those headaches, I went to the

00:42:42.260 doctor, I went to a neurologist, ENT, they, they did a whole bunch of tests on me. Uh, they actually

00:42:47.720 tested me for a lot of disease. Um, and about 50% of people don't even test positive for it.

00:42:53.800 Uh, interesting. So had we, yeah, had we, had we gone on some doxycycline right away,

00:42:59.800 you know, a three week, four week course, it might've knocked it out. Um, but since I didn't

00:43:06.460 test positive where it was like, kind of like, Hey, we'll see if symptoms come back and, uh, you know,

00:43:11.460 we'll address at that point. And time went on and, um, my, my symptoms that I ended up getting over

00:43:19.060 the, the, the, the course of the years before I was diagnosed with it. Um, I thought was all stuff

00:43:26.040 that like, Hey, I'm a professional fighter. Like this is what I'm supposed to do with my massive,

00:43:30.660 you know, joint pain, like to the middle pounds, super warm. And I'd go to stand up and I'd have to

00:43:37.460 like brace on my knee and, uh, you know, like be an old man. Um, at, you know, I was like early

00:43:45.980 thirties. Right. So, so at that point, it shouldn't have been like that. But, um, you know, I was having

00:43:52.280 a lot of brain fog, uh, some, some cognitive issues. Right. Um, like I would kind of get like,

00:44:00.060 I'll get like lost in rooms sometimes, you know, if I had stuff to do, I, I, I just,

00:44:07.240 I, it's hard to describe what it was like, but, um, there's a, there's a plaque, a protein that the,

00:44:13.040 the bacteria creates that's, uh, it's nearly identical to, uh, like Alzheimer's. Uh, interesting.

00:44:20.100 So like I, yeah, there, there are, there are parts of like 2015, well, 16 that like,

00:44:27.120 I don't really have really great memories of. Um, I can remember training camps and, and all sorts

00:44:33.180 of stuff way back, you know, but like there's a period where there's kind of like a, just a,

00:44:38.620 a blanket over it that I, I can't access those memories. Um, you know, and just some other stuff,

00:44:45.600 I was getting a lot of like just twitching and, and, uh, like nerve, nerve pain. Um, and it wasn't

00:44:53.760 until, uh, 2016 that, uh, I was talking to my doctor. I was doing a pre-fight physical for,

00:45:00.920 uh, UFC, uh, 196 and was talking about some of the stuff that I was dealing with. And he's like,

00:45:08.220 I, I think you might have Lyme disease, you know, we're going to run some tests. Um,

00:45:13.280 and it ended up being like, I was out in Las Vegas for, for my fight and, uh, basically just

00:45:19.160 about to start my weight cut. And he calls me up and he's like, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm pretty sure

00:45:23.520 you got Lyme disease. So when you get back, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll start a course of antibiotics.

00:45:27.420 And, um, instead of that, uh, you know, three week dose of antibiotics, I ended up being on

00:45:34.520 doxycline. Um, I did a six month stint on it, went off of it for a little bit. Yeah. Uh, and you

00:45:44.100 know, it just, it just destroys your, your gut biome and, and you know, like it causes its own

00:45:49.500 problems. Sure. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, I went off it for a little bit cause I felt way better than I

00:45:55.560 had and it came back, the line came back and really kicked my butt, uh, beginning of 2017. And, uh,

00:46:02.720 then I went on it again for another essentially like two years. Um, so it was, uh, it was a long road

00:46:09.800 out, like a really long road out. And, uh, you know, like, yeah, we're, we're talking about a few

00:46:17.300 years of, of, of my, you know, physical peak, right. As a man, like my, my, my early thirties,

00:46:25.840 right. Like I'm, um, I'm mature mentally and emotionally and, and, and physically now. And,

00:46:33.280 and I'm not starting to break down yet. Cause I'm not a 40 year old. Like I am now in a young man's

00:46:37.880 game. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was taken away from me, you know, by, by a tech. And, uh,

00:46:46.420 you know, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a tough thing, but it's like, Hey, you know what? I'd rather,

00:46:52.620 I'd rather go through the tough stuff. I'd rather deal with it. And, you know, my kids are, are healthy

00:47:00.520 and strong and, and, uh, you know, uh, keep giving me stuff and, and like keep them healthy and, and,

00:47:10.020 and not having to deal with anything, you know? So, uh, these, these shoulders are, are broad enough

00:47:14.960 to handle that. So, um, that's kind of the way that I look at it. I'd rather, I'd rather I dealt

00:47:20.660 with it than, than one of my kids. Yeah. That's a, that's a really encouraging way to look at it.

00:47:25.740 I didn't, I didn't actually know that once it set in, so is Lyme disease curable?

00:47:32.180 It, there's, there's still, that's still kind of up in the air, right? Like, so, okay. So if,

00:47:37.980 if you catch it early, they say it is right. So like, if you have that, those initial symptoms

00:47:44.740 and you, you, uh, some antibiotics, uh, they say that you will, you will overcome it. Um,

00:47:52.400 once it gets a hold, um, it's really difficult to get rid of. And I kind of understand that like

00:48:02.140 at a point it could come back and it, it might be a, a new tick bite, right? It might be a new

00:48:08.560 infection or it might be some remnants of the old infection. Who knows? Um, I've, I've had the

00:48:16.440 opportunity to meet a lot of people that have dealt with some really bad cases of it over the years.

00:48:20.840 And, uh, you know, absolutely amazing, super tough people. And, and, uh, you know, it's a,

00:48:28.040 it's an unfortunate thing that it's, it's still such a, uh, like kind of taboo

00:48:34.400 illness to, to, to, to talk about, right? Like it's, um, everybody knows about it these days,

00:48:41.780 but it's like, yeah, what, what research is being done? What, what, uh,

00:48:46.160 what treatment, you know, what new treatment is coming out. And, and like, there's, there's really,

00:48:53.660 if you, if you really pay attention, there's stuff here and there. Right. But like, uh, I think most

00:48:59.540 people don't have a huge grasp on it because it's like, it's, it's not, it's not at the forefront.

00:49:06.240 Um, and it does, uh, have a, a, a massive negative effect on, on, on people's lives. You know,

00:49:12.700 especially like I said, when it gets, uh, when it goes untreated for a few years, uh, it can be

00:49:17.360 really devastating. Yeah. I mean, the first time I was really introduced to it, I had a woman who was

00:49:22.440 a client of mine. I was in financial services and she was, she had told me that she was dealing with

00:49:28.240 that, but, but there was, wasn't any visible signs that she was dealing with Lyme disease. But then I

00:49:33.960 remember she went to sign some paperwork and she could hardly even write her name. I mean, her hand

00:49:40.520 was like trembling and it was very difficult for her to write. And she told me about it. I'm like,

00:49:45.640 oh my goodness. I had no idea up to that point. I imagine that just comes with you being in, in,

00:49:51.200 in the woods of, of New Jersey. I wasn't really introduced to ticks until I moved to Maine. I mean,

00:49:55.400 there's, there are some, I think in Southern Utah, but not like Maine. It's crazy. Yeah. Uh, the,

00:50:03.080 the thing, right. Is that it's like, I've, I've found more ticks on me, you know, working in my own

00:50:11.540 garden than I have, uh, you know, in the woods and really, yeah. Like over the years,

00:50:20.200 I like, I, yeah, I, I'm a, I'm an outdoorsman. I hunt, I fish, I, I, I do all this stuff. Uh,

00:50:30.180 you know, anytime I can be out in the woods, I'm, I'm in the woods and the amount of like hunters and,

00:50:38.080 and anglers that I've met at some of these, you know, uh, fundraising events and stuff like that

00:50:43.980 is pretty small. Like a majority, it's just the majority of people. It's just normal people.

00:50:51.500 Right. Like, and that's the, that's the crazy thing too, is it's a, it's a deer tick. We think

00:50:55.720 deer. Uh, but the, the, the thing that spreads those ticks the most is the mouse, right? The

00:51:03.860 white footed mouse. So, um, yeah, yeah. So like I, I preach it all the time. I live in an old house.

00:51:10.640 I've got a dirt for basement. So I, I deal with, I deal with mice, right? Like we've, we, we got some

00:51:15.160 cats and they're, they're pretty good now. So, but, uh, like, uh, with, with, with no quarter,

00:51:21.900 right. Especially like this time of year, spring, things warming up, right. They, they like it in the

00:51:28.520 fall and the spring, right. They, they, they come into the house, just show them no quarter,

00:51:34.760 those little bastards. Right. So, um, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's kind 1.00

00:51:42.880 of funny that, uh, there, I've met a few like hunters over the years, but, but, uh, a majority

00:51:51.240 people, it's just, yeah, they, they don't, they don't even really know. Maybe they went to a park

00:51:57.760 or this or that. Um, but it's, uh, it, it, it doesn't, those little things, man, they, they,

00:52:03.920 they can be anywhere and it doesn't really matter. I almost wonder if part of the reason

00:52:09.920 is, is because when you're out in the woods, you know, to check for ticks, right? If you've

00:52:13.600 spent any amount of time out there, you know, you're supposed to be checking. And so you're

00:52:16.600 actually vigilant about it. But if you're at the park or working in your garden or it's just

00:52:21.860 not, not, not as common for someone to have to check for that. So they're probably not. And I

00:52:26.460 wonder if it's, has more to do with that than anything else.

00:52:30.940 Yeah, probably. Right. Like when, when I, you know, when I go hunting, I'm, I'm layering

00:52:36.800 and this and that. Right. So I've got base layers on, which is going to keep them off most of the time.

00:52:40.920 And like Turkey season, I'm, I'm taking steps to, you know, uh, uh, to keep them away from me, 1.00

00:52:50.440 right. Bug spray and this and that. And, uh, and all those, I know that I'm pants, that sort of thing.

00:52:55.660 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, so it's like, uh, yeah, I think that you just, you're out in the

00:53:02.680 yard for a walk or something like that. You're not really expecting it, but they can be absolutely

00:53:06.640 anywhere. Yeah. Have you always been an outdoorsman? I mean, obviously you're big into hunting and I've

00:53:12.700 followed your account and you pretty closely. And I think is that you've got a Montana knife company

00:53:17.140 hat on. I think you had the hoodie on the other day. Like obviously they're, they're, they're big fans

00:53:22.240 of what we're doing. I'm big fans of what they're doing. So I love to see people supporting them,

00:53:26.020 but have you always, did you grow up in the outdoors or, or what, what did that look like?

00:53:31.760 Uh, yeah. You know, um, when, when I was, uh, a kid, right? Like it was, I didn't start hunting

00:53:39.880 when I was until I was like, I think 15, 15 or 16. Um, uh, my dad didn't want to like push us into it.

00:53:49.260 Like he grew up running, uh, bird dogs and beagles and, um, you know, hunting, hunting in,

00:53:57.500 in New Jersey was a lot different when he was a kid. Um, and even like when I was a kid, it was,

00:54:02.720 it was different than it is today, but, uh, he didn't, he worked six days a week, so he didn't

00:54:09.020 have the time to, to get us our, uh, hunters education and all this stuff. So, um, he let my

00:54:17.340 brothers and I take that on ourselves. And when my oldest brother got his driver's license, we,

00:54:21.680 we, uh, we went and we, we got our hunters education and, and, and, uh, started down that

00:54:28.680 road. But like, as kids, we grew up hearing all the stories of him and, you know, our grandfather

00:54:34.840 and, and all the things that they would do. And we lived, we lived in the woods when I was a kid.

00:54:39.860 It was, it was the best. Like, it was awesome. I mean, we would, we would be two miles from the

00:54:45.380 house sometimes, some days, like during the summer and like my oldest brother being four

00:54:49.940 years older than me, it's like a 10 year old, an eight year old and a six year old, just like

00:54:54.700 two miles through the woods in the, in the, you know, it's like just during the eighties,

00:54:59.300 it was just, it was different. It was a different time. Right. Uh, you know, so like, yeah, we would,

00:55:05.200 we would always be just going on adventures and doing stuff. Right. Um, so like once I,

00:55:12.640 once I got my hunting license, yeah, so it was always something I wanted to do. And, and, um,

00:55:17.520 uh, like, yeah, started, started down that road. And I've, I've learned a lot,

00:55:24.000 particularly in the last like couple of years. Right. Like, like I, I like crap about social

00:55:31.740 media. I don't think it's the best thing, but like, I've learned a lot off of it. Uh, particularly 0.86

00:55:37.080 in the things that I enjoy doing, like, like hunting and fishing. Right. And I've had the opportunity

00:55:41.360 to meet a lot of people through social media, uh, that, uh, that are way better, you know,

00:55:47.520 hunters and fishermen than I am. Um, so yeah, so it's always, it's always been, uh, uh, a part

00:55:54.680 of my, my life essentially, um, just either dreaming about it or once I got my license and

00:56:00.260 yeah, it was, uh, I was, I was always trying to, uh, to get in the woods and it took me a

00:56:04.620 couple of years to get a deer and this and that, you know, and, and, uh, but, uh, it's, uh,

00:56:08.880 yeah, now, now I feel like hunting is more of a, it's just a lifestyle to me because like

00:56:14.700 we do eat it as much as we can. Um, you know, whether it's the venison or elk. Um, so, uh,

00:56:23.820 yeah, it's, I've, I've been able to make it part of, part of our lives and, and now it's

00:56:29.380 like really introducing the kids and trying to get them out there. They've all helped,

00:56:33.380 you know, process animals and stuff like that. They've all been pheasant hunting. Um,

00:56:39.220 so yeah, so now it's like trying to, to get them, uh, you know, into the outdoors as well,

00:56:44.960 which is, is, is, is fun. It's like, it's, it's a, it's, there's a trade-off. There's definitely a

00:56:50.140 trade-off with it, but, uh, it's fun to, to get them out and, you know, experiencing it.

00:56:54.680 Yeah, no, I feel the same way. I mean, I, I, I didn't start hunting until about

00:56:58.280 eight years ago, eight, eight years, maybe, maybe closer to nine, somewhere in there now,

00:57:02.680 but, uh, it's, it's, it's more than hunting it. Like you said, it's, it's a lifestyle. It's ingrained

00:57:07.980 in me as it sounds like it is with you. And man, I'm always encouraging guys who listen to

00:57:12.780 go on a hunt, you know, go, go on a, uh, high success ratio pig hunt, spend time in the woods.

00:57:18.280 If you like it, cool, you know, keep doing it. If you don't cool. But I think everybody needs

00:57:23.820 to take advantage of the opportunity to go harvest their own food because, and it's not

00:57:30.020 just about that, but that is a big component. And there's a sense of pride and satisfaction

00:57:34.720 and actually being connected with nature that I think every man ought to, ought to experience

00:57:40.420 to some degree. Yeah, I think, I think everyone should experience it. You know, like it, it's,

00:57:47.000 it's, uh, it's, it is important to, to, to have a little bit more like, like knowledge

00:57:58.580 of, of, of where your meat comes from, right? Like going through that process and, and, um,

00:58:05.880 you know, sharing, sharing it with people is probably my favorite thing, right? Like making

00:58:11.820 some, some backstraps for people that have never had venison before and just like caveman

00:58:18.040 in it, right? Just plopping them off the grill and slicing things on a cutting board and everybody's

00:58:22.680 diving in with their fingers. It's like, it's, it's the best. It's the best to see the look

00:58:28.460 on people. It's like, Oh my God, this, this is great. Hey, so good. It's like, yeah, you

00:58:34.520 know, the, the, the, the first couple of deer I shot didn't taste that great. Cause like

00:58:38.720 my, my, uh, field care wasn't as good and this and that, like I've learned a lot through

00:58:44.340 the process, uh, you know, of years, right? Like over 20 years of doing it. But, uh, yeah,

00:58:52.520 now it's like, Hey, if you, if you do things the right way and, and, uh, you know, learn

00:58:56.940 a few different things, like, yeah, it's like, it's so, it's so good. And it's, uh, there's

00:59:03.040 a, uh, an appreciation, I think that, that, uh, people kind of develop, you know, for,

00:59:11.920 for, uh, for their food, you know? And like, we, we kind of trade, we trade our health for

00:59:19.260 convenience these days and it's, uh, it, it sucks, you know? Like I, I, every time I get,

00:59:27.880 you know, I, I, I barely ever eat fast food, but when I do, it's like, like I kind of hate

00:59:32.760 myself for it a little bit, you know? And it's like, like, man, like, like it's, yeah,

00:59:37.620 it tastes good. Right. But it's like, ah, like this, this sucks. Uh, cause I would rather

00:59:42.300 it be like, Hey, I'm taking a piece of a deer elk or whatever. And, and, and eating

00:59:49.500 that way. I'd rather eat that way all the time. But, uh, you know, yeah, like I, I, uh, I like

00:59:56.140 to try to do things the, the harder way and put a little more effort into them and, uh, you

01:00:01.380 know, sharing, sharing the game that I, that I harvest with people is, is, uh, yeah, that's,

01:00:07.460 there's no, there's no harder way. So I enjoy it. Yeah. Well, it seems like you, you do like

01:00:13.440 to take the harder path and, uh, and there's obviously a lot of value in that, you know,

01:00:17.840 not to make it harder for making it harder, but harder because from what I hear it's fulfilling

01:00:23.380 and there's, there's value in learning and growing and becoming tougher physically, mentally,

01:00:28.440 emotionally. What, what's next for you? I think, I think a couple of days ago, you told

01:00:32.620 me you have a goal of 50 professional fights. Is that right? 50 fights?

01:00:37.640 Uh, that's 50 UFC fights. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's, that's, that's, that's the hard

01:00:46.480 stop. So, um, yeah. Is that your hard stop or your wife's hard stop? Or what is, what is 0.84

01:00:53.360 that like? That's, that's my hard stop. Yeah. She, uh, she could see me stop at any time.

01:01:00.720 She'd be happy. Um, you know, but, uh, yeah. Um, I'm still, I'm still trying to figure that

01:01:09.980 out, you know, like, uh, you know, I, I've, I've been able to be a professional fighter

01:01:18.100 and I think there's, there's a difference between fighting professionally and being a professional

01:01:21.160 fighter. Right. Like I, because I had the support of my wife, I was able to, in the beginning,

01:01:26.200 just dive in and, and, uh, and try to make this a career and, and, uh, you know, things

01:01:32.900 worked out. So I've, I've been a professional fighter for a while now and been able to pay

01:01:36.880 our bills through fighting. And, um, it's, uh, it's been awesome. And it's also been like,

01:01:44.920 man, like, uh, I I've been spoiled with having control over my schedule and all this stuff.

01:01:51.000 And like being able to do the things that I want to do. And, um, um, I'm preparing myself

01:01:58.780 for a day where I don't have the ability to do all the, the, the things that I want to

01:02:02.960 do, you know, because something will take my time, you know, uh, the, my, whatever it

01:02:08.500 is to, to, to, to provide for the family will take more of my time. Um, I don't know.

01:02:15.400 I'm, I'm, I'm going to do some, some, uh, some analyst work for the UFC, uh, at, uh, I think

01:02:21.520 it's, uh, what is it? UFC 302, um, which is, uh, a newer card. Um, I think it's June 2nd

01:02:28.860 or something like that. Um, you know, I've, I've, I've done some, I've done some commentating

01:02:33.500 in the past and, and I do enjoy it. Um, you know, I w I want a couple of different things,

01:02:42.000 you know, like that's the problem is like, I want, I want part of my life to revolve

01:02:47.800 around the outdoors. So it's easier to bring my kids. Um, but I also understand that like,

01:02:53.800 that's not a, that's not an easy lifestyle. That's, uh, you know, uh, I look at like the

01:03:01.320 outdoor world and, and the, the, the people that I'm close to who have, who have made it

01:03:06.300 their lives. I look at it as like the whole, the whole sponsorship game in MMA. And I never

01:03:12.980 really enjoyed that type of stuff either. So, um, yeah, I'm just trying to figure it out.

01:03:17.980 But I think that, uh, I think that, you know, obviously like media is, is, is going to be

01:03:25.120 a part of a part of the next step. So, um, trying to work on my, my talking skills and not words

01:03:33.140 often, but, uh, yeah, like, uh, I'm going to be probably in front of a camera in one way,

01:03:41.100 shape or form. So, um, just kind of preparing myself for that. Awesome. Well, I appreciate your

01:03:47.540 time. Um, I've been wanting to do this for some time now, so I'm glad that we finally were able

01:03:51.620 to make it work. And even if we did have to span it over, uh, two different sessions because of our,

01:03:56.020 our internet issues. Um, but, uh, let, please let the guys know where to connect with you,

01:04:01.900 follow a little bit more about your career. And then also as things, you know, eventually do

01:04:06.120 navigate into, uh, wherever else you feel like going, we'd love to follow along and see what you're up

01:04:12.440 to. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm, I'm really only primarily on, uh, Instagram, uh, these days.

01:04:19.920 So it's, uh, Jim Miller underscore one 55. Um, you know, it's, uh, I'm, I'm battling this social

01:04:26.680 media thing. I'm trying to, I'm trying to be present in my life and, you know, my family and do

01:04:32.180 the things and, and take my own advice. Right. And like work on myself and not so much for the

01:04:39.440 entertainment of other people. Right. I think that people kind of get caught up in, in the

01:04:45.960 social media aspects, uh, uh, of, of daily life these days. But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm trying,

01:04:53.580 I'm, I'm, I'm working on myself to be posted here anymore. And, uh, but yeah, that's, that's pretty

01:04:59.180 much only where I'm at. Um, at the moment, got some, some stuff in the works that I'll be posting up,

01:05:05.780 uh, shortly, uh, some, uh, some t-shirts and, and all that fun stuff and, and, uh, getting that

01:05:12.580 going. So, um, yeah, that's, that's really it. That's really it. I gotta, I gotta get the YouTube

01:05:16.800 up too. You know, like I gotta, I gotta get, I gotta get on there. There's always something.

01:05:21.340 There's always something. Well, Jim, I appreciate you, man. You and I all stay in touch. Please let me

01:05:25.960 know if there's ways I can support you and what you have going on. Cause, uh, I'm all about that.

01:05:30.460 I want to, I want to help people, especially if they do podcasts with me and they believe in what

01:05:34.020 we're doing. I want to, I want to support that way. We'll sync everything up, man. Again,

01:05:37.840 appreciate you. Thanks for joining me today. No problem. Thanks for having me, man. I hope you

01:05:44.820 enjoyed that conversation with Jim Miller. I know that the technical difficulties might've been a

01:05:49.000 little distracting. Uh, we got to make it work. And we talked a little bit about resilience and

01:05:53.360 adapting and that's something that Jim does well. And we got to make those pivots and changes, uh, in

01:05:58.640 order to put a product out and in order to, uh, fulfill our, our responsibilities and commitments

01:06:04.400 and promises. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please connect with Jim on Instagram. That's where

01:06:08.800 he's most active. Sounds like he's got some things in the works. So you're going to want to make sure

01:06:13.400 you're following him over there. Uh, and then if you would, before you sign out real quick, just take a

01:06:18.080 screenshot right now. Uh, you're probably listening to this on your phone. And if you are just take a

01:06:22.320 screenshot, if it's on Spotify or Apple podcasts or wherever it might be screenshot posted up on

01:06:28.600 Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, tag Jim, tag myself at Ryan Mickler and get the word out, help us get

01:06:35.040 the word out to reclaim and restore masculinity. When I look around, I'm a little nervous, quite

01:06:39.840 frankly, about the lack of manliness and masculinity in society. And if we have information that is going

01:06:45.000 to be useful for other men to serve themselves and their families and loved ones, then let's make

01:06:49.940 sure that we get it to the masses. This is how I do that. So please take that screenshot, check out,

01:06:55.300 uh, Jim on Instagram, tag me on that. Outside of that, check out the store and my good friends over

01:07:00.520 at Montana knife company.com using that code order of man. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you

01:07:06.700 today. We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action

01:07:11.420 and become a man you are meant to be.

01:07:13.760 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:07:22.780 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - April 30, 2024

UFC LEGEND JIM MILLER ｜ Life as a Fighter

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript