This week on Ask Me Anything, we have a guest co-host on the show, Mrs. Tricia Mickler. She joins us to talk about Valentine's Day and how she and her husband have been through a rough patch in their marriage. We also answer some of your questions.
00:03:09.900Question number one. Here we go. Let me get my notes out here. All right. Question number one.
00:03:14.360So, this is from Jacob Brad Johnson. He says, how have you developed strong communication when things broke down over the years?
00:03:21.360Several times have I heard on the podcast. How did you repair the communication and what did you have to do and feel for the healing to occur?
00:03:31.220So, here's my take on that. I'll lead us off and then you can share what you think.
00:03:34.660I think I've always been a fairly decent communicator. The way that I articulate things may be rough around the edges at times.
00:03:42.920More so probably 10 years ago than it is now. I think I'm a little bit more empathetic to how the message is being received.
00:03:49.300You're looking at me like that's not the case, but I think it is.
00:03:56.500So, I tend to be a little harsh, a little hard, a little short, but I am never at a loss for expressing my opinion or the way I feel about things or what's going on in my mind.
00:04:08.060Right. I never have to question what you're thinking because you've always been very opinionated and not afraid to say what's on your mind.
00:04:16.720You definitely have become more tactful over the years. I will give you that.
00:04:23.060And you know usually when to approach with caution.
00:04:26.540Sometimes you come up, you know, mad as a hornet, but usually you take a pretty good approach and are clear and honest and open to what I have to say back.
00:04:36.220Yeah. It seems to me like just trying to look at this objectively that I can go from zero to a hundred on the pissed off scale instantaneously.
00:04:47.560Impressive is not the word you used a couple of days ago when I, when I illustrated my skillset in that department.
00:04:53.260No, I think it was a little more colorful.
00:04:54.960So I think, so that's my strength and my weakness. I think if I'm looking at you objectively, you are significantly better than this, but I think your biggest challenge is that you clam up and you don't express anything.
00:05:08.980So if you're pissed or bothered or something's going on from my perspective, it's, it's not that you're going to be open about that.
00:05:15.880It's actually going to shut that stuff down because you don't want to talk about it.
00:05:18.900And I imagine that's because it's not fun, right?
00:05:22.440It's not enjoyable to have these types of difficult conversations that require communication on both of our parts.
00:05:28.440Yeah. I'd say that's true. And a lot of times, um, I think you are more of one to say everything you're feeling all at once and then usually apologize afterwards for maybe some things that probably didn't need to be said.
00:05:43.740But me, I like to chew things over for a little bit and that's hard for you to handle because you're the complete opposite.
00:05:48.860So if I'm mad, I might just need, you know, a couple hours to figure out what exactly I'm mad at.
00:05:55.880Which is so weird because, and this is, might just be a personality thing. It might be a women, men thing. I don't need to think about it. Like I know what I'm pissed about. I know why I'm pissed. I know what you did or what somebody else did or how I'm reacting. I know instantaneously. It's not, there's no, there's no guesswork. I know exactly what I'm fired up about.
00:06:16.080So, so when you say things like, I just, I think just in the last week, you know, you've, you've been off maybe a day or two or whatever, just because that happens. And I have to at times. Uh, and I said, well, what's wrong? You're like, I don't know. And I hate that because it's hard for me. I don't think you're lying to me, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around. Well, how the hell don't you know? Like, what do you mean? You don't know what's bothering you? I don't understand. I legitimately do not understand. It's not like I'm trying to.
00:06:46.760Like push you or, or get you to lie. Like, I just don't know how that could possibly be. It's so weird for me. Yeah. So I think, I think the moral of the story though, what we're saying is that we both recognize our own individual and each other's strengths and weaknesses. And then we play to it. Like I imagine that you are, you probably talk more than you would by default because you realize that's what I need. Right.
00:07:12.660And I think that I probably try to scale back as though, even though it may not feel like at all times, that I do try to scale back because I realize that's what you need. Right. It's interesting. Cause people say, and this is like, I don't know if this is a new thing or this has always been the case, but I get, I get this all the time. People are like, well, I don't give a, an F about what people think. And the zero, you know what I'm talking about, right? Like the zero Fs mentality. If they don't understand, it's their fault.
00:07:42.660Communicate a message. It's not about how you want to give it. If, if I'm effectively trying to portray something to you, then I need to do it in a way that you will effectively receive it. Right. If I'm just doing it the way that I should do it and I want to do it because I'm the boss or I'm the man or whatever else. I mean, I can do that, but I'm self-sabotaging because you're not going to receive it or choose to be influenced by whatever it is I'm trying to convey. And it's just going to create more animosity and problems.
00:08:11.280Yeah. I agree. Um, that's right. Of course you do. Yeah. How could you disagree with that? Try that. We'll see how it goes. Um, but going back to his question on how we've developed it, it's taken time. It did take counseling. It took counseling. What? Almost 11, 10 years ago. Yeah. Like 10 or 11 years ago. Somewhere in there. It took counseling. I honestly did not know how to communicate to Ryan because I would climb up and I just wouldn't say anything. I'd just be pissed for like a week over
00:08:40.520something just insignificant. So it took, it truly took learning how to communicate with you. And then, um, it's been a lot of trial and error. That's what I was going to ask. You say it took a lot of time to learn, but like, what does that mean? Does it mean, were you trying and then processing it, how it went or like, were you consciously processing it or reviewing it afterwards? Like, how did you learn?
00:09:07.760Um, if we were disagreeing about something or you hurt my feelings, like I would try to speed up that process. And I, I would think about it instead of just being like, well, I am just mad at him and I'm going to ruin his day. Like he ruined mine. Instead of figuring out how to get back at you or make you feel bad for making me feel bad. I figure out, okay, why am I feeling this way? Well, I'm feeling like maybe a little guilty that he got upset that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because I didn't do what I said I would do.
00:09:37.760So I just taken that time to maybe think it over a little bit and look a little more inwards. I think that helped a lot. Um, I think too, if I can interject, like, I think it's, I think it's risky to do something you're not accustomed to. Yeah. Especially in our relationship, because I mean, let's be honest, I was an asshole. Yeah. More so than I am now. So I'm admitting I still have a little bit. Um, but it was riskier for you then to commute
00:10:07.760communicate things that you need to communicate to me because you didn't know how I would respond. Oh, definitely. But now it's not. Sometimes you fly off the rails. Right. Mad at me. And I, I wouldn't understand why. Right. But it could just be because I didn't effectively tell you something. Like I might've said something and it came out totally opposite of how I meant it, but you would take it the wrong way and flip. So, so yeah, I was a little gun shy on it. Right.
00:10:37.760It's more risky if, and I'm just talking to the guys now, obviously it's more riskier for her to communicate in a way that you feel would be effective for you. If you can't make her feel comfortable enough to communicate that stuff. So if I encourage my wife, for example, like if I were to encourage you, okay, you got to share, you got to open up. Like, I want to hear this stuff. I want to hear what's going on. And then one day you're like, okay, well I'll try it. And that's the day I decide to be a complete and total jerk. Right.
00:11:07.080Then your thought is C and then you're not going to try it again because you know, you, I just confirmed what you thought would happen. And I crushed your experiment for lack of a better term. Yeah. Yeah. And just an example this week, I, I, I did have a couple off days this week and there was one day I was just sad. I had no reason really. And like you find, like you could tell, and you were honestly putting in a really good effort at being sweet and helping me and just being maybe extra nice.
00:11:37.080Well, I mean, that's kind of like my default. Like I'm really romantic and empathetic.
00:11:40.920I think so. But finally you did just kind of corner me and like, Trish, I genuinely want to know what is going on. And I could tell you were honest and you were sincere. And I straight out told you like, I'm kind of embarrassed to say, but X, Y, Z. And you, I mean, you pulled that out of me kicking and screaming, but I told you and, and you were totally open and you were receptive and you were nice.
00:12:04.520And you gave me a big hug and told me everything would be okay. Like, and that's what I needed. Yeah. I didn't need you saying, well, we can fix this and let's do this and do this. Like, which is what I wanted to say. I know. I think most guys are like that. Oh, I totally agree. You guys are fixers. You want to fix what's wrong. And maybe we just need to talk about it. Which is weird. That's another weird thing. It's totally weird. All right. She's, she's telling us to move on to the next question. All right. So question number two. So Jacob Brad Johnson, also, he gets two questions. Cause he was the first one to ask.
00:12:34.400Uh, it seems from my understanding that you let, or had to ask Ryan to leave for a while. Uh, I'm assuming he's talking about our separation. Right. When did the decision have to be made and how, why, what had he had done to become or become that made you allow him back into your life? So what, when did the decision have to be made that you, that you and I needed to separate and then what needed to happen for us to reconciliate? That's how I'm reading that question.
00:13:03.740Okay. Um, gosh, it's hard to say. There were just, it was such a long buildup. I don't think there was one thing where it was because this, because he cheated on me or something. It was like nothing like that. No, it was just lots of things built up. And finally, just one night we were in the middle, we were in the kitchen and we were just going at it. And I just, I was like, I am done. Like I, this is not the life I want for me. This is not the life I want for our son. Like, I don't want to be in a marriage where I'm constantly fighting and yelling and being put down. Like, I'm just done.
00:13:33.740And I told him because he was leaving to go for a business trip. And I just said, you can go. I won't be here when you get back. And that was it. And I think I told him there's nothing you could say or do right now that would change my mind. And, and I was gone. He left to the strip and I packed us up and we went.
00:13:52.820I actually came back. Do you remember that? No, I left. Maybe I'm making this up, but this is how I thought it went. That I left and I got like an hour North of where we are. And I was like, what are you doing, man? Like Trisha's leaving. She's taking break. Like, what are you doing? And I came back and I think we talked and you're like, no, I'm in that. And you moved in with your parents. Did that not, that's not how it went.
00:14:18.640I, I don't, I remember, I mean, you were in a dark place anyways. I was bad. Yeah. Um, but, but that's what I remember. And you left and I don't even know if I went up and did that training or not, but I was devastated. Yeah.
00:14:30.920So long story short, what needed to happen for both of us? I don't, I don't think it's a one thing. Like I want to make sure guys understand this is it wasn't, I had to change a lot, no doubt. But I always tell you guys is that she would be the first one to say that she needed to work on things too. And that's totally true.
00:14:50.700So, so what needed to happen from your perspective for me? And then what needed to happen also for you?
00:14:58.260I was trying to think of it. And again, it was just not one thing. Like I, I saw in your eyes, I saw in your whole persona, like you were a broken man. That was awful. And I, I honestly, I try to block that out. I hate that look I saw in your eyes and you were that way for quite a while.
00:15:17.360Yeah. You really were. Yeah. You were, it was awful. You, I mean, you got gone, you lost a ton of weight. Like you could tell you weren't sleeping. And then, and then it's like one day you just decided to, it's time to pick myself up.
00:15:30.380Do you know why that was? Did I ever tell you why that was? Have I explained that to you? So I've told the guys this and maybe you probably know, but I got, I remember the road I was on. I remember I was on Riverside and River Road. That was the intersection it was at.
00:15:47.840And I was going to an appointment, a client appointment or something. And I was thinking about us and I, and that was the first time that I ever said like, this is over. This, this relationship is over. Cause there was no closure at that point.
00:16:00.260We were separated, but it was like, maybe there's some hope, maybe not. Like there was no closure at that point. And I just thought this is over. And, and I didn't want to wrestle with that idea, but it was actually pretty liberating and life altering.
00:16:12.900Because at that moment I remember saying to myself, well, if this relationship is over, then I'm going to be the best catch for the next woman to come into my life.
00:16:23.060Like I remember thinking that, and I, and that was hard. Like I didn't want to wrestle with that, but I mean, I'm young. Like I knew that it would be okay. It would suck, but it would be okay.
00:16:33.360Yeah. And that moment, what that moment allowed me to do is to stop focusing on you so much. Cause I was, it was like, how could I get her to like me? And I'm going to call her all the time and I'm going to do this.
00:16:44.800And it was like all about you, you, you, you, you, and that probably, I can't even imagine, but not annoying. It was. Yeah. Annoying, infuriating. No, truthfully. It really was. It was awful.
00:16:54.760So every time I tried to like get you or fix you or get you to change or whatever, see the errors of your ways, I just drove a greater wedge. And when I thought it was over, I was like, well, okay, I'm not going to focus on her. It's over. So I'm just going to focus on me.
00:17:07.660And at that moment, that's where I really started to work on myself and then go on and continue. I just wanted to interject that because I think that was relevant.
00:17:16.900It was because when you started to, to just back off a little bit, that gave me some time to breathe. That gave me some time to reflect on what it was I wanted and digging myself out of the hole I was in and that it just, the space was needed for us.
00:17:35.980And then also seeing the light start to return to your eyes and you had, you were starting to get confidence again and you were starting to be proud of what things you were doing and, and it did change.
00:17:48.300It made me start seeing you the way I used to see you. And then, um, yeah. And it was just little things like that that kept building and building.
00:17:57.620And then you had asked me over and over like every week, Hey, I'm going to counseling. I would love for you to come. You never said more than that. You just kept it at that short statement. And I told you, you know, every time, every time, every time.
00:18:10.040And then finally I just, you know, it was through a lot of praying and self-reflection that I was like, okay, I'm going to go one time. And that one time is what saved our marriage.
00:18:21.840Hmm. And so, um, I think, I think that was, that's what did it. It was just giving each other space to work on ourselves and to heal.
00:18:34.100But that's, that's also the hardest part, I think for men too, because to go back to it, we're fixers, right? By default, I think we're biologically hardwired to look for problems and then fix them.
00:18:45.860So the hardest part about the advice of step back, step off for a minute, like just ease up the, off the gas a little for a second or put it somewhere else.
00:18:54.420If you have yet to put that energy somewhere, put it towards a hobby or an activity or the gym or something.
00:18:59.640The hardest part of that is that in my mind, I thought to myself, well, if I do give her what she's asking for space and I ease off a little bit, then there's a likelihood that she will leave, which is true.
00:19:18.160That risk is there. So I thought in my head, what I was thinking is, well, if I just stay engaged, right?
00:19:25.540If I call and I text or I stop by or I, like, if I stay engaged, then that increases the likelihood that we'll have to get.
00:19:35.980So it's a little counterintuitive, but the challenge is like both situations are good.
00:19:42.100And that I mean this, if you would have left permanently because I backed up and started working on myself, that would have not been good, but it would have been okay.
00:19:50.600Because you would have moved on and I would have moved on. Both of us would probably be remarried by now. Like we'd have different lives. It would have been okay.
00:20:01.180Wouldn't have been ideal or maybe, you know, I don't know. Or the, the, the other scenario is that we, we do get back together. So whatever happens, it's going to be okay.
00:20:11.680That's the point that I'm making. And it's weird to say, even like talking with you now that we've been together for, is this your six, this is your 16 years marriage, right? Or 15 years?
00:20:23.08015 married. So it's weird talking to you right now in the basement of our, you know, our house and 15 years into marriage saying, Hey, if it didn't work out, we would have been okay.
00:20:34.480Well, like we would have been cool. We would have been fine.
00:20:36.900That's really weird to say, but it's true, right? Yeah. Like you would have been remarried. You would add another, you would add a family. I would have been remarried. I, she's saying no, but that's a debate that we have all the time.
00:20:47.400Like if I, for example, like if I passed away, she's like, I'd never get married again. I'm like, give me a break. Some of these guys would probably, probably want to hit you up if I was out of the picture.
00:20:56.720All right. Let's move on here. Uh, number three in what, uh, this is Scott Mason. He says, in what ways do you support Ryan in fulfilling his calling? I, and I'm not sure what he means by calling. Maybe just my calling as a husband, father, business owner. I don't know. What do you, what do you read?
00:21:12.360I I'm kind of assuming he's being like with what you're doing with order, man. Okay. And my thought on that, and maybe I don't have it articulated quite right yet, but it's my job to support you and to push you forward and to be your number one fan. And sometimes raise the caution flag a little bit, but that's my job.
00:21:51.820Well, at first I was like, well, okay, this is kind of a cool hobby.
00:21:55.880Was it cool or was it like, this is weird?
00:21:57.640Well, I didn't really understand podcasts. I still don't really understand podcasts, but like, obviously something's working. People must like you.
00:22:05.900Well, I think they just stick around for you for the one every three months that you're doing it.
00:22:10.140Guys, by the way, I'm trying to convince her to do order of women.
00:24:35.440Do you feel like you can or you should define it or not?
00:24:38.300I think my actions should speak for my role. Does that make sense?
00:24:45.940Yeah. But what's the difference, for example, between your role as a woman, a mother and a wife as, and mine as a man, a husband and a father?
00:24:56.920Hmm. Um, I might need a little help here.
00:25:03.880Well, think about, think, okay. So, um, well, let me ask you this way. Are the roles that each of us fill, would you say, are they societally constructed?
00:25:13.540Meaning, meaning is it some sort of like patriarch, like society in general constructed all these? Do you believe it's God given? Do you believe it's biological? Like where does our position as mother, father, husband, wife, man, woman, where does that, I guess, for lack of a word, where does that authority come from?
00:25:36.420I think it's shaped by a lot of things. But for us in our family, I believe these are roles given to us by God. I think, I think they're also biological. Like I have a pull, probably stronger than you to take care of the kids. When the kids are hurt, you stand strong. You're like, you're okay. Me, I want to get down. I want to get a bandaid. I want to hug them. I want to kiss them. I want to love them until they feel better.
00:26:00.240Right. So I think something, some of those things, like that's just the natural way women are. And I think that's awesome.
00:26:08.020It is awesome. It's not, it's not any sort of like subservient role or anything like that, or, or, or secondary role to what a man provides. Do you consider, this is, this might be a funny, this is a funny question. Do you consider me, the sole leader of the home, you, the sole leader of the home or us leaders together?
00:26:28.120Like, how do you, how does that hierarchy work for you?
00:26:33.400Um, the way I see us in our family, I see you and I side by side with you, maybe like just an inch in front of me.
00:26:43.540Why would you put me in front of you that way? Even if it's just an inch?
00:26:47.020Uh, I, that's just, that's who you are. That's what you are to our family. You're the one, it just sounds cliche to do the protect, provide, preside, but that's what you do.
00:27:00.660But does that mean that you have to submit to me?
00:27:04.900No. And I, I honestly cannot see a situation where you would even request that of me.
00:27:10.720Do you feel like, and I'm trying to like frame this in, in a way that there's a lot of these hardcore extreme feminists who think that if you follow me, that somehow I'm subjugating you or I'm keeping you, you know, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
00:27:32.540I don't feel like that. And I think, I think women are failing to recognize how strong we are when we work with our husbands, with our mates. I think they don't see the power that's there.
00:27:45.620Cause if I'm doing things on my own, I'm pretty strong. Like I, I consider myself a strong woman.
00:27:52.020And, um, I know, I know I can do a lot of things without you, but I know when I do them with you, that we are, we are a force to be reckoned with.
00:28:01.980Like, I totally full heartedly agree and believe that you put whatever you want in front of us and you and I will do it together.
00:28:12.320I agree with that. Uh, so here's my perspective in this, my, I mean, I think you inherently know this just because we've been together for long enough where you, where you know this, but I feel like ultimately the buck stops with me.
00:28:22.600And I feel like if we had a decision that we had to make where we were kind of waffling, or maybe you thought one way, or I thought one way, I would definitely take everybody's thoughts into consideration.
00:28:32.500But ultimately I feel like it's my responsibility to make the decision.
00:29:02.560So all of the burden of responsibility, not, I wouldn't say all of it, but ultimately the responsibility, the burden, the weight, my job is not, is, is not to pawn my weight off on you.
00:29:15.040Like my job is to shoulder the weight so that you don't have to, which leaves you the opportunity to be the nurturer and empathetic and the carer and the love and the support.
00:29:26.560Or if you had to carry the weight, you couldn't do those things as effectively had you had to carry the weight and also be those things.
00:30:04.860Because I don't have to worry about our kids going to daycare and being surrounded by some jackass kids who are learning who knows what or being molested by a sitter.
00:30:13.880And look, if you have your kids at a sitter, I'm not trying to scare you.
00:30:17.340I'm just saying there's other threats that I don't have to worry about as much because we've put ourselves in an environment, in a situation where I can go shoulder the load.
00:30:27.700And I know that the things around the house and the way that the house is made into a home and that our children are loved and cared for and they're being watched over, it allows us to fulfill our responsibilities more fully, I think.
01:27:53.360Okay. Well, three, I think, again, what drives me to stay is I chose this. I want this. I want it to work.
01:27:59.760And I want it to be, I want this family for our children. I want to be with you. I don't have to be. I want it. I made that choice.
01:28:09.180Women feeling lost in their marriage on how to reconnect. The thought I had was find a common interest. Find something to do together.
01:28:16.820I mean, it might just be simple as like Ryan and I every now and then we'll break out a puzzle. And like, it's like, here we are on a Friday night putting together a Charles Wysocki puzzle.
01:28:40.900Yeah. But, um, it's no big thing. It's not some big fancy night out, but we're side by side. We're working on something together. Sometimes we're talking, sometimes we're just watching a movie, but we're doing it together. And, and we're close physically and emotionally. Like we're close at that moment.
01:28:55.960So just find something to do together.
01:29:15.660But still. And also on that, like I, I see that you've gotten into hunting and you're interested in it. I also want to do that with you.
01:29:24.360Yeah. So I asked for a bow. I asked you on your hunts. I asked you different questions about it because I have an interest in it.
01:29:31.380I thought it was interesting yesterday because I was out shooting my bow. Um, I think before dinner or something, I think you and the kids were actually gone. You'd maybe just ran or something.
01:29:41.460So I was shooting the bow and I just saw you over by the truck. Everybody had gotten out and the kids were their friends and stuff. And I saw you and you were just leaned up against the suburban and you were just watching me.
01:29:51.260And I was like, grab your bow, come over and shoot. She's giving me the sexy eyes right now. So I'm like, grab your bow, come over here and shoot. And you're like, Oh, I don't. And you did. You went, cause I could tell you were excited.
01:30:04.240So you went and grabbed your bow and you like came right out, which I, I was glad I wanted you there. And then you said, Oh, I'm sorry to like cut into your time. Right. And look, I gotta have time. Like there's some time where I, frankly, I don't want you out there shooting with me. I just want to shoot.
01:30:19.940But, but I enjoy it doing it together. And that the fact that we had a little bit of contest, I was able to maybe coach you a little bit through a couple little minor things that maybe I'm not qualified to coach on necessarily. It was just fun. I just had a good time. I thought that was nice doing that together.
01:30:35.860Yeah, it's fun. And we, again, it's just something more to reconnect on. It's something to build on. It's, you know, fun, have a little trash talking going, a little competition and, and yeah, it's just finding something to do together.
01:30:49.120I think, um, one of the mistakes that couples make, I think that pertains to this question here is that they think that they have to sit by the fire and hold hands and stare into each other's eyes and sing Kumbaya or ask about each other's feelings and deep thoughts and visions about the future. And look, there's a point in time where you got to talk. You, you want to connect that way.
01:31:11.640Appropriate at times, but it doesn't always have to be like that. Like the other day, the other night you were standing by the bed and you were standing by the bed and you, you were faced away from the door.
01:31:26.020And I snuck up and I literally put the Goldberg spear on you from behind. And I just, I was airborne, airborne onto the bed. It was awesome. And that was a connection.
01:31:40.280It was. We laid there and we laughed and jumped up and went about our business, but it was so fun.
01:31:45.400I mean, I wanted to say out because you like landed in the middle of my back, but like, it was so funny.
01:31:55.120But that's a connection. Yeah. And so it doesn't have to be like this therapy session.
01:32:02.960Right. Oh, you know, one thing when we were first getting back together that you did that, that helped a lot.
01:32:08.620I know. You were really good about leaving me notes. I know. He would fold these like amazing origami things. I'll have to dig them out so we can show these guys.
01:32:16.640But, um, and he, it'd just be like a cute little note. I know. I need to do that. I've really dropped the ball on that.
01:32:21.800Yeah. It's been like nine years. No, it hasn't. I did. I had dropped the ball. I thought about that just like a week ago.
01:32:28.380Just like little things. They don't need to be, you know, roses and candle lights and unicorn farts. Like it could just be something. I mean, unicorn fart would go a long way.
01:32:41.500But, um, it just little things. What would a unicorn fart smell like? Cupcakes.
01:32:47.560Cupcakes. And what is it? We better move on.
01:32:49.120What is that commercial? The unicorn poop is the soft serve ice cream, like rainbow soft serve ice cream.
01:32:54.760What is that? Squatty potty. Squatty potty. That's right.
01:32:56.780I heard they smell like cupcakes and David Beckham.
01:32:59.560David Beckham. After a soccer game or?
01:43:55.860And I don't want to be insensitive of a woman who has been in an abusive relationship in any form and say, well, you're just not being mature.
01:45:10.200She just wants gratification of being needed and wanted and having something to take care of.
01:45:14.140And I promise you that level of immaturity and that, I have no problem saying with this completely immature, but that level of immaturity spills over into other facets of your life, other facets of your life.
01:45:25.680And that will be a, that should be a huge, huge red flag.
01:45:31.840I also think even a woman who, who isn't insecure might actually initially enjoy that because they're being waited on and they're being served and they're being loved and they're being given gifts and they're being uplifted through words and through deeds and actions.
01:45:48.380And so even the strongest of women would probably say, this is kind of nice, but a woman who is mature is, is going to say, whoa, dude, like I got it.