Order of Man - Watch What People Hide, Apathy Vs Emotional Availability, and The Power of Verbalization

00:00:00.020 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.940 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.280 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.440 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.740 Sean, what's up, man? So great to see you. Thanks for filling in for KIP today.

00:00:27.500 I'm always grateful when you do. You have some great insight, and I know we'll always have a good discussion when we're together riffing on these things.

00:00:34.360 Yeah. Everybody's been traveling. World traveling. We've all been all over the place.

00:00:39.780 I know. Well, KIP was in France, and I think he might be in Switzerland or somewhere. I think he's traveling home now.

00:00:45.760 I went to Scotland like a week. Yeah, about a week ago. I was in Scotland for seven days. What about you? Where have you been?

00:00:53.280 Ecuador. I was in Ecuador for a few weeks with my daughter.

00:00:55.720 Yeah. Oh, nice. Were you missionary work, or what were you doing down there?

00:01:00.880 It was a humanitarian thing, but there was also a religious type of, definitely a spiritual aspect of it as well.

00:01:12.200 Yeah. Sweet.

00:01:12.900 But yeah, it was cool. It was a nice thing. We were helping build a school for special needs kids in Coinka, Ecuador.

00:01:19.680 Yeah, it was nice.

00:01:21.040 That's awesome. Yeah. It's amazing how little effort and money goes such a long way in countries like these. I've actually never done anything like that. I would like to do that. But I think I've heard stories and had conversations with people who do quite often, actually. And I'm blown away with how much the dollar goes or our time goes when we donate it that way in some of these countries.

00:01:42.840 Dude, it's insane.

00:01:44.840 Dude, it's insane. I mean, this place, I've done it in Nicaragua before. We're on the board of a charity, and we did it there. And to give you an idea, when we were there, the average annual income for these families in these communities we were in were $500 a year.

00:02:02.640 $500 a year.

00:02:04.640 Yeah. And so we helped rebuild this. If you want to call it a hospital, it's kind of like a medical center. And dude, some of the worst conditions I've ever seen, but us just upgrading that, and it was like maybe a couple grand.

00:02:20.040 And that meant the world to like this giant region of people. And they were like beside themselves. They treated us like kings, you know, when we were there, just doing that, you know, this, the school that we helped rebuild the dude that was like the foreman or the job site, if you know, you call them that. Number one, there's no machinery. So we did everything by hand.

00:02:41.200 Hmm. So I literally, we were moving like one and two ton boulders with, uh, with, uh, just a pry bar, you know, the giant pry bar and rolling it on something. Is that what you're doing?

00:02:52.280 Yeah. Rolling it like, like tying ropes around it and pulling it into different positions and different spaces, like digging holes to pull it into and stuff. I mean, it was just, you know,

00:03:02.860 the ingenuity of these people too. Like I remember when I moved to Maine, we had this big wood burning stove that I needed to get from the barn into the corner of the house.

00:03:13.760 And I had no, I've attempted to just lift the thing up just to see how heavy it was. And these things are, they're heavy. I mean, I don't know if it's five, six, seven, 800 pounds, but these cast iron stove, wood burning stoves are super heavy.

00:03:28.660 I called my neighbor up. He's a, he's a long time, new Englander. I call him up and he knows how to do everything. And he comes over and I'm like, Hey Ben, I need to move this thing. How do I move it? He's like, Oh, it's easy. We just get three PVC pipes, put them in front, put it on a board and just roll it and just keep rolling the PVC pipes. And that's what we did. I never in a million years would have, it's so dumb. It's so simple. I never in a million years would have thought to do that.

00:03:51.880 But the ingenuity out of necessity that people have is incredible to me. And then you think about things like the Egyptian pyramids or the pyramids in Mexico, thinking about how those people did what they did.

00:04:03.880 Even in Scotland, you know, you see monuments and cathedrals and castles built 1000 plus years ago and the architecture and the craftsmanship that goes in the cathedral in Glasgow that we went to was unbelievable.

00:04:19.680 I think it's the oldest operational cathedral in Scotland, if I remember right. And it's beautiful. We don't even do that now, let alone a thousand plus years ago.

00:04:28.260 No. No. Yeah. And that's the fact that they spent the time, you know, right. Do it is on top of that is, is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. Well, should we get into some questions today? I mean, that's the point of being here.

00:04:41.940 We're 10 minutes deep into this thing, but let's get into some questions. And these ones we're fielding from, I believe we did, we did the Facebook group on these questions. So if you're interested in having some conversations, these are generalized conversations they're having in the Facebook group, but you can do that at facebook.com slash groups.

00:04:58.260 Slash order of man. And if you want to have more detailed conversations that are oriented towards action with built-in accountability, then go sign up to be notified when our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council opens back up in, let's see. I think it's August at middle of August, I believe is when it may be middle of September. I think it's middle of September, somewhere in there. You'll just sign up and you'll be notified.

00:05:21.500 Yeah. And I mean, if I could add to that, as far as the questions go, you can see it in today's questions, not that they're bad questions or that they're better. They're just not as detailed. And, you know, it's tends to be in from the Facebook group. And, you know, there's actually one in here that will address with that, but let's jump into it. First one, Sasha Flammersberger, who says, why, in your opinion, do so many men in the Facebook group mainly seem to have problems with women? Greetings from Germany.

00:05:48.140 I mean, that's a good question. That is, that is a reoccurring trend. That's something that gets brought up so often. You know, I don't know, other than that's the issue that guys are dealing with, right? Struggling in the relationship, struggling to lead, struggling to have connection. But then I also think there's an issue with the way that manliness and masculinity are talked about broadly and generally.

00:06:13.940 We're supposed to be domesticated and docile and quote unquote, good little boys. We're raised that way from the time that we're little. Sit down in school, shut up, color within the lines, do what you're told, sit here for eight hours. If you show any sign of energy or boredom with the current system, you're heavily medicated and sedated. It's rough for specifically for boys.

00:06:40.000 If you want some good information on this, you can check out Dr. Leonard Sachs' work and Dr. Warren Farrell. Warren Farrell has a book called The Boy Crisis and Dr. Leonard Sachs has a book called Why Gender Matters and Boys Adrift.

00:06:54.240 And all three of those go into depth on why the educational system is really failing our young men. All that to say is that we have generations now, multiple generations now of men who are raised, not like men, more like a feminized version of a man. And it doesn't resonate with women.

00:07:17.060 We're told that it does. We're told that, oh, you know, this is what women want and this is how they, but then if you actually look at at least anecdotally, and we can get into the evidence, but I can even tell you just from an anecdotal level, the messages I get from women are like, I really want my husband to step up.

00:07:31.760 I really need him to lead. I really need him to be more assertive. I really need him to chase his dreams. I really need him to bring some structure and clarity and vision and discipline into the relationship.

00:07:41.420 These are the messages I'm getting from women who were married. And it's, I think men are in a precarious situation because they're told on one hand, like, hey, you know, you don't want to rock the boat and be nice and let everything, you know, go by and conditioned to do that.

00:07:57.380 And on the other hand, we have now generations of women who are having a hard time finding men who will step up and lead the way that they would like them to lead so that they can step more fully into their femininity.

00:08:07.240 So that's, that's the underlying reason why relationships are really struggling. And you see divorce on the increase and you see less people even getting married to begin with, because there's this polarity that's supposed to happen between men and women.

00:08:23.560 And it's not society is telling women to act more like men and society is telling men to act more like women. So there's no polarity. And because there's no polarity, there's really, if we're all the same, no reason for us to unite and form a union.

00:08:35.700 It's when we're different and strong in different areas that a union makes sense because now us together is better than us separately and individually.

00:08:45.520 Yeah, that really good. Number one, number two, that was a deeper psychological dive into the question than I thought initially, you know, which is awesome, but I'm going to attack it from more of a, I guess, from the hip response.

00:09:02.880 And what I thought, as soon as I saw the question, I thought the reason we get so many questions about women is because we're men and there's a men's group and most of the angst in our lives is going to be surrounded around issues with women in our lives, you know, as well as most of the joy in our lives as well.

00:09:22.280 Um, but most of the issues I think that we deal with as men are surrounded by, um, woman issues. I mean, as if you're single, it's man, how do I find a partner? Right. And how do I find the right one when you're, and then when you are in, uh, a relationship, then it's how do I make her happy? How do I keep her happy? How do I write? And, and that's a constant struggle.

00:09:48.540 And, and so the bottom line answer is it's never easy when we're dealing with the opposite sex, because we're so different and we're different by nature, all the things you were talking about. And because of those differences, it causes issues in our lives. And because we have a public forum now, you know, I think there's, there's such a rise in divorce and everything.

00:10:11.760 Part of that is also because of things like social media, where now we have these voices that we listen to, and we don't know which ones to clearly listen to. That's where you mentioning places like the iron council are so important because you have a group of men, uh, with what should be similar values to yours, helping you through that process and helping you step up.

00:10:34.940 Like you were talking about in different areas, um, and it's any public forum. Now there's going to be more things expressed. So I don't think necessarily that there was less of those things. Yeah. The divorce rates were less and everything else. If we went back 50, 60 years, that divorce rates were less, but it doesn't mean that the angst that we had with women in our lives was less.

00:11:01.520 They're just more of a place to talk about it now. And generally in settings with other men in the past, you didn't actually, I wouldn't say I should, I won't even say you didn't talk about it because I think that's what men talked about most is, oh man, my lady's doing this to me at the, at the house or whatever. Right.

00:11:20.520 At the barbershop, they'd all get the barbershop at the bar and politics. Yep. I mean, and, and so, you know, that, that would be my answers. It's because we're men and this is a men's group. And so there's always going to be issues with women in any group of men that are speaking to each other.

00:11:38.200 Yeah. I thought that was a good point is, you know, between that and money, those are the issues that drive our decision-making process, money and women, right. For better or worse. So that's what we, there's also just all, and you alluded to this. There's just a lot of horrible advice out there.

00:11:51.200 So, you know, specifically for men about, oh, you know, women are bitches and women don't deserve and men going their own way and extreme red pill type mentality. And there's, there's no collaborative efforts. There's no desire to, or at least no conversation or very few, I should say, because we talk about it, but very few conversation about serving the woman in your life, but also making sure that she's capable of serving you and having a reciprocal relationship and adding value in each other's lives in specific and unique ways to each other.

00:12:21.200 But the mainstream narrative is, you know, forget about women. Women don't need men. Men don't need women. Marriage is outdated. It's antiquated. It's unnecessary. So this is the messaging and we're reaping what we sow.

00:12:34.260 Yeah. The effort, right? That the, the effort being put in for success in anything is being downgraded in all conversations.

00:12:43.880 Yeah. Yeah. Cool. What's next?

00:12:45.640 All right. Joe Marino asks, Ryan Kipp, where do you recommend keeping firearms in the house? I know some guys who have a cabinet for their rifles, but also keep a handgun unlocked by the pillow or nightstand. Just wondering what your preference is for what you like to lock up and what's more accessible. Also, are there any firearms you recommend in general?

00:13:07.000 Sounds like he's trying to figure out where my firearms are in my house. I don't know if I want to answer this question or not. No. Um, I mean, I've got, I've got our rifles and our shotguns and several pistols in, in my safe, in my bedroom, you know? And so I've got it all locked up. I'm the only one with access to that, a code to that. So, uh, that's where the 99% of my firearms are. I have one by my nightstand. It's in a, I can see it right now. It's in a, in fact, let me just grab it real quick.

00:13:35.240 Anyways, this is the gun case that I use right here. And it's the same one. Is it really? Same exact one. It's right next to my, it's on my nightstand. I just keep it on my nightstand. Um, it does have a key on it, which is good, but I, it also has. So a lot of people would just think that that's biometric, just the way that it looks. If you're looking at this on YouTube and if you're not go check out YouTube because our YouTube channel is growing, but this is not a biometric safe. It's not a fingerprint scanner. And I actually like that. It's not a fingerprint scanner.

00:14:05.220 Because I don't want that thing to malfunction if I need it quickly. So even though it looks biometric, it's actually just a code that I would put in here. So I punch in the code and then I've got my firearm right there. Um, and it's loaded, you know, it's, uh, what I mean by loaded is that there is a round chamber because if I get that thing in the middle of night, the round needs to be chambered.

00:14:27.220 Um, you know, but there's some other considerations. I have kids at the house. So having a firearm, just sitting on the edge of my nightstand is probably not going to be a thing that I'm going to do with my kids there. Now I introduced my kids to firearms. That's important. If there's firearms in the house, then you need to be familiar with what it is.

00:14:47.300 I don't want them to be curious about what that heavy metal object is that dad likes to play with. Like, I don't want, I don't want them to be wondering what that is. So we go out and we shoot, we shoot pistols, we shoot rifles, we shoot shotguns.

00:15:01.300 You know, this is part of our, of the dynamic or culture of our, of our family, because I don't want that. The analogy I've used in the past is that we're all afraid. I think to some degree that one of our children might fall in the pool and drowned. So the question is, do you keep your kids away from the pools or do you teach them how to swim? Well, every healthy functioning person says, okay, let me teach my child to swim. So if the situation arose, they'd be able to take care of themselves, you know, and not die.

00:15:29.020 I think the same thing can be true of firearms. They're going to be exposed to a firearm at some point. So do you keep them ignorant about what it is? Or do you teach them the, the, the lever of respect that firearm deserves and how to use them correctly and what's appropriate behavior with firearms and what is inappropriate behavior with firearms? And these are conversations that we have. So, you know, there might be a lot of guys here like, no, you got to have that thing on the ready. And if that's your thing, great, you know, but just make sure you're taking into consideration who has access to that firearm.

00:15:57.620 Uh, and, and, and keep your family safe. You might need to keep them safe from an intruder, but if there's risks of them accidentally discharging a firearm, then that's your fault. And you aren't keeping them safe into the same way. Some intruder might break into your house and injure or kill one of you or your family member. So something to consider. Anyways, that's, that's what I use. What you, would you, anything different?

00:16:19.700 Yeah. Mine, mine's exactly the same as yours, except mine does have the fingerprint scanner on it. So it has both. And, um, it's just, I mean, the thing is so fast that it's, that's the first thing, but if it does malfunction, then you'd hit the code, you know, and you're talking, it costs you a few seconds, but, um, it's the same thing. And then, yeah, my safe has all my other weapons in it, but I keep everything in the safe for exactly what you said, just because the kids being around.

00:16:47.620 But I can tell you, we, my safe, when we moved into Tennessee, um, I did just a mess getting a safe in my house. I'll just call it that. And so it took, it took like nine months to get the safe installed. Um, so during that time, my bag, my guns were sitting in their bags, you know, and they were, or in cases and had locks on the cases, but still, um, accessible.

00:17:15.640 If any of my kids wanted to get to them and they knew what was in them. Um, they didn't touch them a single time. And I think the reason for that is like you said, we go shooting enough.

00:17:26.820 Right. And so there wasn't a desire to check it out. Let's check out the gun. They didn't have a desire to show their friends. Um, so I agree with everything you said, but I think I would also add to that.

00:17:40.280 I think hunting has helped a lot with that. And I don't know if you have seen this, you know, taking the boys hunting, but their respect for life, um, was, went up.

00:17:52.680 I mean, I can't even really quantify it in their respect for life and it's increase after introducing them to hunting. And that's been every single boy to a T, even my eight year old. Um, I took him out hunting with us. We went, uh, hunting for pigs in California. We were night hunting.

00:18:16.780 And so we actually did some with the night vision goggles and stuff like that. Oh yeah. And, uh, as cool as it was and as cool as he thought it was, um, he had a, he really distinguished the clear line between, you know, video game, uh, violence and actual violence and taking a life and what that meant.

00:18:38.120 And, you know, you know, how there was a living thing that's no longer living anymore. And so just their respect for what those do as a tool, uh, increased. And so again, it, it decreased their desire to play with them.

00:18:54.180 Right. Um, cause they understand that they're tools, that they're not toys. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and so that, that lesson was the most valuable part in, uh, the way that,

00:19:08.120 we keep our weapons, you know, now, I mean, the safe is just an extra added layer that now I really don't have to worry about, but, um, you know, well, I think it's important.

00:19:20.240 Not to mention, I've talked to my kids about this, even just outside of the firearms discussions that we've had, protect your shit.

00:19:28.260 Yeah. Like if somebody breaks into my house, you know, they can steal my computer. They can steal.

00:19:34.720 There's not really much here. Maybe some electronics and some cameras and things like that. I don't want my firearms getting into the hands of criminals.

00:19:42.260 No.

00:19:43.180 So those are not only are they expensive, they're deadly. So I, you know, that's my responsibility to make sure that the tools I'm using are safeguarded from getting into the wrong hands.

00:19:55.600 Forget about also getting into the hands of my children, but some criminal who breaks in, like, I don't want them to have access to those firearms because what are they going to do with those firearms?

00:20:04.560 And that's my responsibility as a firearm owner. So that's another reason you should have your, your stuff locked up. You know, your cars should be locked. Your doors should be locked.

00:20:14.300 It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of the situation. Protect your stuff. It's your, those are your resources. Protect them.

00:20:19.440 Great point. You don't want to build an arsenal for the bad guys.

00:20:23.640 Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly. We convenient little, little shop for the, the bad guys.

00:20:29.460 Yeah. All right. All right. Next question.

00:20:31.760 Uh, James green. Why didn't Kip call you out regarding your excessive drinking?

00:20:38.960 So I'm glad he asked this question. Uh, and I saw, I saw these questions and I saw this one come up. And if you don't know, I had a real problem with, with drinking, you know, heavy and excessive drinking.

00:20:50.980 Which created a lot of animosity and contention in my previous marriage. And which I ultimately led to the, my divorce.

00:20:58.740 The reason Kip didn't call me out is because he didn't know. That's it. That's the only reason. Cause if he would have known, he would have called me out.

00:21:07.820 I don't know if he would have called me out necessarily. I don't know what that means or what that might look like for you, but he would have said something for sure because he cares about me.

00:21:15.440 But I will say that there were people who did know, and I didn't know that they knew, but they knew, and they did not call me out.

00:21:21.520 And the reason they didn't call me out is they were worried about making it awkward and making it uncomfortable and how that would come across.

00:21:28.300 And they didn't want to pry. They should have called me out. And I'm not putting any blame of my decisions on them at all.

00:21:35.620 Those were my decisions to make. And they were poor ones, but also because multiple things can exist at once.

00:21:41.720 If you see a brother struggling, the last thing on your mind should be, I don't want this to be awkward.

00:21:47.320 Like you see somebody struggling with something, whether it's drinking or drug abuse or pornography addiction, or just their behavior.

00:21:55.660 Maybe they're stepping out on their wife, like just behavior in general.

00:21:58.700 If you see any poor behavior in a brother of yours, then it is your responsibility to bring that up.

00:22:05.060 And that's how you know you have a true brother, is that he's more worried about you than he is about the relationship with you.

00:22:14.660 That's kind of an interesting way to phrase that. He's more interested or more concerned with you than he is in the relationship with you.

00:22:23.040 And that's important to know because a brother, the way that I'm describing it, will sacrifice the relationship in order for you to get what you need.

00:22:33.260 So he's willing to lay that relationship up on the altar, knowing that, hey, if I approach Sean about this thing that I see, this might damage the relationship, but I care so much about Sean and his success and making sure that he's good, that I'm willing to lay that relationship down if it means that I get him on a better path.

00:22:51.840 If that's how you know you have somebody who really actually cares about you, and that's a very difficult thing to do, and it's very rare to find in somebody.

00:23:00.640 So what I would suggest is, number one, be that for somebody else.

00:23:04.900 If you're that for somebody else, you're actually giving them permission to be that for you.

00:23:09.020 If you do find somebody who's that for you, don't screw it up by responding negatively or blowing up the relationship every time this person comes to you and calls you up because it's easy to do that based on our ego.

00:23:23.000 Oh, man, every time, you know, Sean holds me accountable for these things and it's frustrating.

00:23:30.000 Yeah, it might be frustrating, but that's a valuable resource that you have in your corner that you better appreciate and acknowledge what that person is doing for you because you'll need that at some point in your life.

00:23:39.520 So, again, be that kind of person, acknowledge those kind of people, and do whatever you can to keep those people in your corner because those people are really going to save you or at least serve you when you're making poor decisions.

00:23:51.600 And you will. We all will, and we all do.

00:23:54.480 Yeah, and I'm glad you said that. It's because he didn't know because I'm like, man, I wish Kip was here to be able to defend himself.

00:24:02.020 But I can say I'm around you enough, too, that I didn't know. I had no idea.

00:24:06.220 I was really good at hiding it.

00:24:07.300 And I've and here's the thing is all addicts are until they're not.

00:24:12.540 And that's something that it's one of the things that you master as you have an addiction is you obviously don't want to want people to know.

00:24:20.400 And so you're good at hiding it, finding ways around it where you get good at deceiving.

00:24:28.240 And I mean, I was in enough intimate places with you like hunting, right?

00:24:34.120 If we were in a position where we went hunting together, even the friends we were with were, you know, drinking, doing other drugs and doing things that we didn't participate in.

00:24:44.580 You didn't participate in.

00:24:46.240 And if you did, you know, maybe I was naive, but I didn't see that.

00:24:49.460 And I'm pretty sure you didn't.

00:24:51.960 And so, you know, I never saw any problem there.

00:24:56.120 But my understanding before going on that trip was that you didn't drink, you didn't smoke, you didn't, you know, participate in any of those things.

00:25:03.500 And, but I can guarantee you that if I did see you, I would have at least brought it up.

00:25:08.400 I'd have been like, oh, you know, hey, I thought you didn't drink, you know, is that a new thing?

00:25:13.200 Is that a recent thing?

00:25:14.160 And, you know, I've heard you say in the past that you didn't.

00:25:16.640 And I would have asked at least Doug a little bit to see like, hey, are you slipping down a path?

00:25:25.060 Is this a rare thing?

00:25:26.200 Is this an occasional thing that you do?

00:25:28.300 I would definitely ask those questions if it seemed like something out of the norm.

00:25:31.600 And I think you're right.

00:25:34.000 I think most people are not willing to.

00:25:37.980 And most of the time, it's not brought up by the people in our lives that will.

00:25:43.480 Because when you know that you're around the people that will, you tend to hide it even more.

00:25:49.760 And so it's, you know, that's the hard part.

00:25:54.700 I think there's another lesson in here too.

00:25:56.920 Guys, we all have people who are important in our lives.

00:25:59.360 It might be your wife, your kids, colleagues, co-workers, friends, brothers, dad, cousins, whoever, neighbors.

00:26:05.340 You need to watch those people.

00:26:07.740 I think we as men are to be shepherds.

00:26:09.880 We are to watch over our flock if we're going to take a biblical approach.

00:26:14.940 That's what we're supposed to do.

00:26:16.720 You're supposed to watch after your family.

00:26:18.380 You're supposed to watch after your neighbors.

00:26:19.920 You're supposed to watch after the people that you have responsibility for and also for the people that you care about.

00:26:24.760 And you better be vigilant in that because people are hiding things.

00:26:28.500 And it's not even nefarious, by the way.

00:26:30.720 In a lot of cases, they're not doing it to deceive you.

00:26:34.640 Maybe there's shame and embarrassment like there was around my excessive drinking.

00:26:37.820 There's a lot of shame and embarrassment around that.

00:26:39.520 So I wasn't trying to deliberately be deceptive and deceive the people I cared about.

00:26:44.980 I was ashamed of my behavior.

00:26:48.020 So we hide it.

00:26:50.000 And so it might not even be shame.

00:26:51.500 It might just, or excuse me, it might not be that.

00:26:55.340 What I'm trying to say is that it's not always nefarious.

00:26:58.540 There's just things that people are dealing with.

00:27:00.860 You know, for example, I mean, I talk with guys every single day who are dealing with relationship issues.

00:27:05.960 And I know for a fact, for a fact that these individuals have people in their lives that are closer than I am, and they don't know anything about these relationship issues and struggles this person's having.

00:27:17.880 That's a problem.

00:27:19.840 Either you're not disclosing that to your people, and you should because they can help you, or your people aren't paying attention and or are not willing to have difficult conversations with you about it for multiple reasons.

00:27:33.980 So if you are a brother to somebody, and you are, whether you think you are or not, you have a responsibility to look for what people are struggling with.

00:27:43.740 And if you see any sort of even just behavioral difference, difference in habits, difference in their inflection and tone of voice, then bring it up.

00:27:52.040 Like you said, hey, is that an occasion?

00:27:54.220 I didn't know you drank.

00:27:55.080 Is that an occasional thing?

00:27:56.080 That might just be enough for me to say, you know what, Sean?

00:27:59.080 Yeah, man, I'm really glad I'm actually having a problem.

00:28:01.820 I may not have done that.

00:28:02.940 I don't know.

00:28:03.980 But that would have at least opened the window and allowed me to step through that into a path of recovery, maybe sooner, maybe soon enough for me to salvage my relationship or other parts of my life.

00:28:17.640 Yeah.

00:28:17.960 And who knows, but all we can do is at least offer, right?

00:28:21.400 And I think it's, as you said that, I thought of most churches, most places that you're involved in, even a lot of work sites now offer help for people, you know, struggling with addiction for different things.

00:28:36.200 And I've had this discussion with people.

00:28:40.160 And I'm like, well, have you gone to your bishop, to your pastor, to the, you know, I know your church has this program that helps with that.

00:28:48.800 And it's free and it's, and it's confidential.

00:28:52.760 And so have you gone to them?

00:28:54.140 No, I didn't go.

00:28:54.960 Well, why not?

00:28:55.700 Well, I don't want them to know.

00:28:57.680 Because I see them every week.

00:28:59.140 Because it, well, someone's got to know, you know, it's like, I totally get that.

00:29:05.100 But at the same time, nobody's helped by you hiding it.

00:29:11.480 So for sure.

00:29:13.580 All right.

00:29:15.660 Next question.

00:29:16.800 Carson Wheat.

00:29:18.520 How do you as a man think you balance apathy and emotional availability?

00:29:24.080 This week was a bad week for me.

00:29:26.320 I've injured my foot.

00:29:27.680 My daily commute car broke down.

00:29:29.560 And then my wife's car broke down.

00:29:31.360 This was very distressing to her, but I did not want to show panic or frustration.

00:29:36.140 So I bottled my emotions.

00:29:37.640 And when the storm passed, I aired my frustrations.

00:29:41.860 I think I come across as apathetic when in reality, I don't want to add to the anxiety in the room.

00:29:49.160 This is a good question.

00:29:50.480 It is a good question, but let's not conflate.

00:29:52.860 I think your motive is accurate.

00:29:55.160 I don't want to add extra anxiety to the situation.

00:29:57.520 Like that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a healthy, especially for men.

00:30:01.360 That's a very healthy motive.

00:30:03.420 It's a stoic thing, right?

00:30:05.320 It's just not, well, we can even talk about stoicism.

00:30:08.860 So many people have a misinterpretation of stoicism.

00:30:11.680 So many people believe actually that stoicism is the lack of emotion.

00:30:14.360 It's not, it's the control of your emotion.

00:30:16.920 That's understanding what, it's understanding what your emotions are about, what you're feeling,

00:30:21.080 what you're experiencing, and then using them as a, as a factor in your decision-making

00:30:25.780 process.

00:30:26.180 Not the only factor you're not making rash decisions.

00:30:30.140 You're not reacting to them.

00:30:31.980 You're using that as feedback for a response to a situation.

00:30:37.860 And apathy is just a lack of interest.

00:30:41.040 It's a, it's a complete disregard for the way somebody else might be feeling or a complete

00:30:46.360 disregard for the situation you're in.

00:30:48.820 It's just, that's not what we're talking about here.

00:30:50.680 You're very interested in it and you're just trying not, you're trying to be emotionally

00:30:56.300 mature enough to be the, the, the rock that people might need you to be.

00:31:02.260 Go, go ahead.

00:31:03.000 And I have some more things to add, but add what you were going to say too.

00:31:06.160 No, I mean, it's, I'm glad you clarified because when I said being stoic, I didn't mean

00:31:10.840 that's what stoicism is, but that's his intention is to be stoic.

00:31:16.060 Right.

00:31:16.720 And so if, if we're intending to be stoic, sometimes we bought all those emotions, we

00:31:20.780 don't want to show them.

00:31:21.720 We don't want to let them come out in the moment.

00:31:25.680 And so we think that's what stoicism is.

00:31:29.220 And so maybe part of it is, but not, you know, like you said, it's the actual emotion that

00:31:34.780 you're feeling is the important part of the equation.

00:31:37.240 I think the biggest thing that we can do, and I'm saying we, as men can do better is

00:31:43.200 to verbalize our emotional decision-making process.

00:31:47.000 So for example, your wife's dealing with the car that broke down and then your car broke

00:31:51.640 down and you, it sounds like you had an injury and, you know, it sounds starting to sound

00:31:54.920 like a country music song, you know, my dog died and like, everything's going wrong, right?

00:31:58.600 It happens.

00:31:59.120 It's part of life.

00:31:59.800 And you, you are, you are actually being emotionally mature by trying to be the rock,

00:32:07.280 but you don't want it to come across as uninterest or apathy to her, right?

00:32:11.820 So how do we bridge this gap?

00:32:13.380 You verbalize it.

00:32:14.580 You just open your mouth.

00:32:16.160 So, Hey, hon, man, what a week, huh?

00:32:20.220 Like your car breaks down.

00:32:21.300 My car breaks down.

00:32:22.160 This is going wrong.

00:32:22.900 That's going wrong.

00:32:23.540 This has been a crazy week.

00:32:24.660 I want you to know, I'm really interested in making sure that we get these things resolved.

00:32:29.260 And here's my thought process behind what we're going to do and how we're going to fix

00:32:32.400 it.

00:32:32.700 Let's get your car fixed first.

00:32:33.920 You need it more than I do, whatever, right?

00:32:35.680 So here's my plan.

00:32:37.660 I just hope you never read my response or lack of response is me not interested in the

00:32:43.980 situation.

00:32:44.400 I'm actually very interested, but I'm trying to be mature about the way that we approach

00:32:48.340 this because I want to lead and serve you as the husband that you married.

00:32:53.640 What, what do you need from me?

00:32:55.860 Do you, do you need me to be more involved?

00:32:57.920 Do you need me to be more verbal in what I'm experiencing?

00:33:00.120 Do you need me to ease up and let you process this?

00:33:02.560 What, what, what would help you see how much easier this is when we just verbalize what we're

00:33:06.980 thinking and what we're feeling.

00:33:08.420 I don't know why we don't do this.

00:33:09.860 Maybe we're afraid.

00:33:10.900 Maybe we don't think we can, maybe we don't want to see, be seen as weak, but it's not

00:33:14.680 weak to say, Hey, you know, I'm feeling a little bit scared about this too.

00:33:17.220 Here's my plan.

00:33:18.560 I don't want to lose my cool and make bad decisions, which is why I'm behaving like this.

00:33:22.840 But yeah, I've got a little fear too.

00:33:24.740 What do you think we should do?

00:33:25.720 Or here's what I think we should do.

00:33:26.840 What do you think about that?

00:33:28.400 I believe that if we, as men just verbalized more of our thought process, a lot of these

00:33:34.560 problems and these fears and concerns, because right now it's just confusion.

00:33:38.220 You, you don't know what she's thinking.

00:33:40.440 She doesn't know what you're thinking.

00:33:41.700 And we clear all of that up by talking about it.

00:33:44.340 That's, that was going to be my exact answer because this is my personal number one weakness

00:33:52.620 as a husband is this question here.

00:33:55.540 Is my wife thinking?

00:33:57.580 I don't care when I deeply care about all of the situations happening in our lives.

00:34:05.300 And it's something I'm still working on.

00:34:08.780 And I've definitely gotten better at it, but it's as simple as, and here's my thought process

00:34:13.540 as you were saying that, and this is how I come at it.

00:34:17.420 So I just, because I'm an expert at screwing this up, I know what goes on in my head when

00:34:23.780 this happens where I think, yeah, it'd be dumb to talk about it instead of just finding a

00:34:30.500 way to make it better.

00:34:31.580 And so in my head, I'm already thinking about a way to fix it.

00:34:36.100 But what my wife sees is I'm uninterested and I don't care.

00:34:41.940 And it's something as simple as me saying, as she's talking about these things, like,

00:34:48.280 oh man, this is so hard.

00:34:49.380 This was this, what do you think we should do about this?

00:34:51.540 And I'll say a quick thing like, well, that's easy.

00:34:55.120 We're going to get it fixed.

00:34:56.240 And then we're going to do this.

00:34:57.380 And in the meantime, we have to, if we have to Uber here or do this, that's what we have

00:35:02.140 to do.

00:35:03.480 That still doesn't sound like concern or care.

00:35:06.620 It sounds like me trying to fix an issue where all she really wanted me to say was, man,

00:35:13.800 I know this is hard, babe.

00:35:15.740 And it must seem really hard to you.

00:35:19.060 And so I want you to know, I'm, this is what I'm going to do.

00:35:26.380 And I feel bummed out about it too.

00:35:29.100 I just might not openly show that I'm bummed out about it because I'm just trying to fix

00:35:33.800 the problem.

00:35:34.740 Yeah.

00:35:35.180 But I understand this is really hard.

00:35:36.800 And that's for whatever reason, it's so hard for me to just say, yeah, this is hard, babe,

00:35:43.660 because I feel like it's so obvious that I sound stupid saying it, but it's the exact

00:35:50.520 thing that she needs and wants to hear.

00:35:53.580 And so it could be wants to know that you understand her.

00:35:56.420 And by saying, when she says, yes, scared or this is hard to say, yeah, I am too.

00:36:00.720 Or I can see why you would feel that way.

00:36:02.540 I'd feel the same way if I was in your shoes, all that signifying is that you're listening

00:36:07.360 to her and that you understand where she's at.

00:36:11.120 Who doesn't want that?

00:36:12.200 Who doesn't want to be understood?

00:36:15.140 Yeah.

00:36:16.040 There, the other day we're in bed and, and she's told me this, who knows how many times,

00:36:21.680 but she's like, you know, if I'm just, if I'm not feeling good or right or something,

00:36:25.120 just if you could be loving, that would be awesome.

00:36:28.380 And I'm like, yeah, but when I, when that's happening, if I like lean over and start to

00:36:33.440 pet your head or something, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, here he is.

00:36:36.760 Like just trying to like, like it's pandering almost, if that makes sense is how I feel.

00:36:42.800 But that's exactly what she wants.

00:36:44.620 Like, even if she knows that's what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, that's exactly what she

00:36:49.640 wants.

00:36:50.380 And for me, it's still hard, but it's, it's, I find myself when I do it, things are always

00:36:57.300 better.

00:36:58.100 And then if I don't, it's like the other night, it was so funny.

00:37:01.560 She asked, and I got like really annoyed, but I did it anyway.

00:37:04.900 She goes, Hey, do you know how to, do you know how to like, just like maybe pet my head

00:37:12.940 and make it feel like you'd like really love me and care about me?

00:37:16.420 Like, if you just kind of stroked my hair and said, do you know how to do that?

00:37:20.000 Like it was so funny.

00:37:21.900 That's funny.

00:37:22.660 She asked me in that way.

00:37:24.940 And when she said it, I got like so pissed off.

00:37:28.460 That's funny.

00:37:28.980 You know, inside I'm like, oh, like my, everything in me, you know, said, well, now I'm really

00:37:35.680 not going to do it, you know, which is dumb.

00:37:37.720 And that's a, that's a typical guy reaction.

00:37:39.940 And, but I was like, not without a word, without anything.

00:37:45.100 And I was like, yeah, yeah, I do.

00:37:48.020 And then like started to do it.

00:37:49.780 Do it.

00:37:50.020 Right.

00:37:50.480 And she was happier, you know?

00:37:52.300 And I was like, man, you know, it wasn't like, you could look at that as she's trying

00:37:57.560 to start a fight.

00:37:58.440 She's trying to, you know, whatever, but it's, I think women are much better at letting us

00:38:02.680 know exactly what they want, the way that they want it.

00:38:05.700 Then we are with them.

00:38:07.640 I don't know if that's true.

00:38:09.160 I don't know if that's true.

00:38:10.660 No, no.

00:38:11.700 Cause they dance around, but when they do, you better, you better be on it.

00:38:14.880 Cause they dance around.

00:38:16.280 I mean, generally.

00:38:17.680 Yeah.

00:38:18.280 I think they get to the breaking point.

00:38:20.720 I think they get to the breaking point, um, with less heat than men do.

00:38:28.480 I think when we get to that breaking point and make it clear what we want, it's,

00:38:32.200 it's a lot louder.

00:38:33.660 And so I think they get when in their frustration, they get to the point, you know, a little more

00:38:38.100 subtly in better places than we do is, is maybe the way to say it.

00:38:41.960 I think so we'll hear it more often than we they'll hear it from us.

00:38:46.240 I think that she'll say it more than we likely will, but she'll say it in a way that doesn't

00:38:51.220 always resonate with us.

00:38:52.220 And that's one of the big problems between men and women.

00:38:54.120 It's like, she's like, she, she might say, well, I told him a hundred times.

00:38:57.220 Well, what exactly did you say?

00:38:58.900 Here's what I said.

00:39:00.020 Okay.

00:39:00.260 He, he didn't hear what you were trying to tell him because it was, there was a miscommunication

00:39:05.340 there, but you know, with your analogy or with your story about like giving people what

00:39:10.620 they want, especially with our spouses, imagine this, imagine you're a little tense in your

00:39:15.300 neck and your shoulders and you're like, Hey babe, can you give me a massage?

00:39:18.580 And she's like, yeah, sure.

00:39:19.580 Like, what's up?

00:39:20.120 I'm like, ah, I'm just long day.

00:39:21.600 Like, man, just hit my shoulders, hit my traps, hit my neck right there.

00:39:24.520 And she's like, oh, okay.

00:39:26.500 And she doesn't, it feels so good.

00:39:27.880 You're like, oh, that feels great.

00:39:29.080 And then she moves and she starts like massaging your lower back.

00:39:31.800 You're like, oh no, hon, like my shoulders, like my shoulders and back.

00:39:34.220 Like, that's really where it hurts.

00:39:35.220 Just keep it there.

00:39:36.140 And she's like, no, I'd rather massage here.

00:39:39.360 That's not what, that's not what I want.

00:39:40.840 Like, I need you to massage my traps and my shoulders and my neck.

00:39:43.340 And you want to focus on that.

00:39:44.560 Who's this about?

00:39:45.980 Yeah.

00:39:46.220 But that's what we do when a woman tells you like, hey, I would like you to just listen to me.

00:39:52.400 And you're like, well, no, I'd like to fix it.

00:39:54.400 No, she doesn't want you.

00:39:55.440 She wants you to listen to her.

00:39:57.480 Like we're, we're, we as men are, we are capable of that fellas.

00:40:02.420 We can't, the framing that I would use on that is that we tend to want to fix things.

00:40:09.880 Maybe fixing it is by just being a good sounding board.

00:40:13.920 And that's actually productive fixing of the problem because the problems do tend to dissipate

00:40:18.920 when we do that.

00:40:19.680 I'm not the best at that, not an empathetic person, but I've realized when I do focus on

00:40:25.080 that, things begin to resolve a lot quicker.

00:40:28.680 Yeah.

00:40:28.820 That's such a good point because her thought process in that moment is probably, well,

00:40:34.540 I'm massaging him.

00:40:35.920 I'm doing my job.

00:40:37.460 I'm putting the effort in.

00:40:39.940 This isn't easy.

00:40:40.960 This is like hard on my thumbs, right?

00:40:43.520 Right.

00:40:43.920 He doesn't appreciate what I'm doing.

00:40:45.740 No, he wanted his, he wanted his shoulders massaged.

00:40:48.720 Do that.

00:40:49.960 Great point.

00:40:51.080 Great.

00:40:51.220 There's another analogy.

00:40:52.380 I, I, I was thinking about when it comes to communicating effectively.

00:40:56.300 I'm really glad we're talking a lot about this because these are big issues and they're,

00:40:59.280 they're issues that I've stumbled across to you guys.

00:41:00.940 So please know, I'm not speaking from a perfect track record here, but imagine, because

00:41:07.880 we were talking about firearms earlier.

00:41:09.140 Imagine that you want to, you jumped online and you found this firearms course warrior

00:41:13.680 poet society, since they're good friends and partners of ours, you found one of their

00:41:17.200 courses.

00:41:17.600 You wanted to go learn from John level or any member of his team, how to shoot a firearm

00:41:21.060 and how to be proficient.

00:41:23.520 So you fly to Atlanta, you pay for the course, you go down there, you meet him there.

00:41:28.340 And you're so psyched.

00:41:29.240 You got all your gear.

00:41:29.900 You've got your gun.

00:41:30.760 He meets you on the firing range.

00:41:31.940 He's like, all right, guys, you ready to learn?

00:41:33.240 And you're like, hell yeah, I'm excited to be here.

00:41:34.800 I'm ready to learn.

00:41:35.540 And he's like, all right, this is what you do.

00:41:36.880 And he just grabs his gun and he just starts, start shooting targets.

00:41:39.540 He's like, okay, do that.

00:41:42.020 There you go.

00:41:43.220 How frustrated would you be?

00:41:44.540 No, what does he do?

00:41:45.240 He's like, all right.

00:41:45.740 So the first thing we're going to do is we're going to get our stance.

00:41:48.000 Correct.

00:41:48.340 We're going to be in this stance.

00:41:50.820 We're going to, you know, hinge forward a little bit at the waist.

00:41:53.240 When we draw, these are the steps.

00:41:54.760 We're going to go through steps.

00:41:55.780 One, two, three, four, right?

00:41:57.740 We're not just going to draw.

00:41:58.580 We're going to one, two, three, four, present to the target fire, that kind of stuff.

00:42:02.880 And then he's going to work you through it by communicating the steps with you.

00:42:06.240 He's not just going to shoot and say, see, just do that guys.

00:42:08.520 Just mimic that.

00:42:09.760 He's going to break it down and he's going to communicate every step of the way.

00:42:13.880 That's what we need to do when we're working with other people is we need to communicate.

00:42:17.260 Now we don't want to pander to people, right?

00:42:21.000 We don't want to make them feel dumb.

00:42:22.700 It's not what we're doing, but we are going to communicate our thought process.

00:42:26.060 So if you're dealing with the situation, like our gentleman is here with the car breaking

00:42:30.220 down and this and that, Hey hon, here's what I'm thinking.

00:42:32.660 A, B, C, D in this order.

00:42:36.060 And I think if we do this, here's why.

00:42:37.600 The more that you explain, the more people can see that, Oh, what he's doing is he is

00:42:42.820 caring.

00:42:43.240 He is trying to solve the problem.

00:42:44.320 He is leading as a man, but you can't just do it.

00:42:46.700 You actually have to verbalize and vocalize it.

00:42:48.440 Yeah.

00:42:49.440 Even if it seems obvious to you, maybe, especially if it seems obvious to you, if that's, if you're

00:42:55.780 having a miscommunication issue, especially if it seems obvious, maybe you just need to

00:43:01.080 start voicing that thought process.

00:43:04.360 Yeah.

00:43:04.580 Just one word of caution on that, because I know I can do it.

00:43:08.340 If you feel like this is dumb, they don't know it.

00:43:11.540 How do they not know this?

00:43:12.540 They're there.

00:43:12.940 Like, this is dumb or I shouldn't have to explain this.

00:43:16.060 You're probably going to explain it to them.

00:43:19.160 Like they're in kindergarten and it's not going to go over well.

00:43:22.720 You're like, Oh, well, you know, just do this.

00:43:25.220 That's easy.

00:43:26.920 You be careful.

00:43:27.640 I'm not saying.

00:43:28.420 So there's a disclaimer there.

00:43:29.620 Like if you're explaining things, you have to do it from, Hey, this empathy, empathetic,

00:43:34.180 I'm explaining this because I think this will help bring up just so we're clear or I'm explaining

00:43:38.680 it because I'd like to hear your thought process.

00:43:40.560 Maybe I don't see the entire picture.

00:43:41.840 So I'm explaining what I know.

00:43:42.980 And I'm looking for feedback from you on what you would, what you would want to add to this

00:43:46.840 conversation.

00:43:47.400 But if you have any sort of like, Oh, what an idiot.

00:43:50.400 I can't believe I have to explain this.

00:43:52.060 That is going to be present in the way you communicate.

00:43:55.220 And obviously it's not going to be well-received.

00:43:57.180 Hmm.

00:43:58.680 Yeah.

00:43:59.220 Good points.

00:44:00.300 I like it.

00:44:01.160 All right.

00:44:01.600 Next question is KJ drown who said, why are there two different standards for people on

00:44:08.040 here?

00:44:08.420 And then you actually answered him back and said, can you be more specific?

00:44:12.500 And he never answered.

00:44:13.900 So I think it's good to address that.

00:44:17.400 Yeah.

00:44:17.820 He's talking about the Facebook group, two different standards.

00:44:20.980 I don't actually know what he's referring to.

00:44:23.260 That's why I wanted clarification.

00:44:24.600 Like, did I miss something or did something get approved?

00:44:27.000 That shouldn't be approved or, or, well, I was going to skip over it and not even ask

00:44:32.460 the question, but I think it's important that we at least address like, dude, if you're going

00:44:37.540 to ask a question, like be clear in what you're trying to get, that is so general and two different

00:44:43.880 standards could mean any thousand different things.

00:44:47.720 And so it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's accusatory.

00:44:52.580 It's not a good question.

00:44:53.660 Cause it's accusatory.

00:44:54.620 You're not even asking a question.

00:44:55.820 You're making accusations.

00:44:56.880 You're for it.

00:44:57.480 You're framing it as a question, but you're making an accusation.

00:44:59.960 So if there's an accusation that you need to make, make an accusation.

00:45:02.820 And I think this is just clear communication as men.

00:45:05.260 Like if you're like, Hey, I don't like this.

00:45:06.880 Let's just say that we don't need to do the passive aggressive thing.

00:45:10.000 So guys, like if you have an issue with somebody at work, you don't need to make snarky comments

00:45:14.460 or ask them questions or like, just talk to the person like a man.

00:45:21.200 Hey, I have an issue with this.

00:45:22.520 Or if you're genuinely curious, say, Hey guys, I'm curious.

00:45:25.140 And ask the question in a way that shows you're curious, not being accusatory.

00:45:29.380 And I don't mind him asking the question.

00:45:31.480 I'm just saying that the way it's being asked is something worthy of consideration for us.

00:45:38.760 Is there a better way that we can communicate as men to elicit better responses from people?

00:45:45.340 And it is be more direct.

00:45:47.360 If something's bothering you, not passive aggressive comments.

00:45:50.000 And if you're going to ask questions, I think it's important that you'd be genuinely curious

00:45:53.600 about those questions.

00:45:55.420 Yeah.

00:45:56.040 It's it also leads into how we've been trained to think one way or another, and then have

00:46:04.780 this expectation that the group that we're going to engage with is going to be completely

00:46:11.100 in line with all of our viewpoints, or if you want to call them standards for the way

00:46:17.520 we live our lives.

00:46:18.320 And then when it doesn't meet that expectation, we're disappointed.

00:46:22.480 And then, so we ask questions like that instead of, well, why don't you just pay closer attention

00:46:29.240 and listen?

00:46:29.920 And maybe there's dual standards, but there's also something to learn from those conversations,

00:46:36.360 you know?

00:46:37.200 And so I just got something wrong, you know, and it's like, oh yeah, we let something slip

00:46:41.940 or, you know, we didn't see, or something got approved that maybe shouldn't have.

00:46:46.180 I mean, very easily that could happen because there's hundreds of posts per day.

00:46:49.720 There's 70, what, seven or 72,000, I can't even, I don't even know, 72,000 or 78,000

00:46:55.560 people in the group.

00:46:56.520 It's like, of course, you know?

00:46:58.160 Um, also, you know, I think there's a lesson in here of just, if, if you see something wrong,

00:47:04.080 like try to make the place, the environments in which you operate better than they currently

00:47:07.840 are.

00:47:08.680 Um, but I, but I do like your point though.

00:47:10.720 I mean, I think this goes above and beyond the question here.

00:47:13.280 I do like your point about if, if something doesn't perfectly align with you, then that

00:47:17.540 person's Hitler.

00:47:18.360 You know, and it's, I mean, that's, that's, we're getting more and more that way with social

00:47:24.380 media now.

00:47:25.420 Yeah.

00:47:25.560 That's a problem.

00:47:26.440 I mean, look, just because somebody sees it differently than you, it doesn't mean they're

00:47:30.020 an idiot.

00:47:31.000 It doesn't mean they're a moron.

00:47:32.480 It doesn't mean they're evil.

00:47:33.580 It doesn't mean they're a racist or a homophobe or a transphobe.

00:47:39.360 The more we fling around these false accusations, the less weight they actually carry.

00:47:44.580 Like if you called me a Nazi today, like that doesn't hurt my feeling.

00:47:49.780 That doesn't impact me at all because it means nothing, right?

00:47:53.340 The word literally means everything, which means it literally means nothing.

00:47:57.740 So there's no weight behind that.

00:47:59.980 So I think that we need to all, whether you're conservative, liberal, gay, straight, I don't

00:48:05.920 know, whatever we need to all just work on exercising a little emotional maturity that

00:48:12.660 other people aren't going to see it your way.

00:48:14.980 And they're not evil.

00:48:16.720 They're not necessarily bad people.

00:48:19.160 They're not even out to get you.

00:48:21.080 They probably don't even think about you.

00:48:23.320 They just see it differently.

00:48:24.840 And maybe you can have a good conversation and one of two things could happen.

00:48:29.140 Maybe you'll see something differently you never saw before, or maybe they will because

00:48:33.320 they're talking with you, but you can't do that.

00:48:35.560 If you shut it down and call them evil or they're horrible, or they have these malicious

00:48:39.200 intents, like most people don't, they just see it differently than you.

00:48:43.320 Yeah.

00:48:43.960 Yeah.

00:48:44.600 And there, you can all be better regardless.

00:48:49.800 So, yeah.

00:48:50.000 But if you play into it and you're like, oh, well, you know, this person, and you just

00:48:54.560 start flinging around these accusations.

00:48:56.080 Like even we, as men do, we say we're above that and we're not snowflakes is the one that

00:49:01.460 gets tossed around, man.

00:49:03.080 People who use that term are often the biggest snowflakes are out there.

00:49:07.160 Yeah.

00:49:07.560 They're easily offended.

00:49:08.740 Emotionally riled up at every little thing.

00:49:10.700 And now they're flinging insults and they're just projecting on their own personality.

00:49:16.940 Yeah.

00:49:17.580 Yeah.

00:49:18.020 I agree.

00:49:18.580 All right.

00:49:18.800 Let's move on.

00:49:19.840 Bob Ross.

00:49:21.420 What provisions have you put in place?

00:49:23.340 If you were to meet an untimely end for your wife, family, children, I know each individual

00:49:28.640 will have different dynamics, but what steps have you taken to provide for your crew?

00:49:33.760 If you were to die tomorrow, he said, thanks for all you do.

00:49:37.280 Keep up the amazing work.

00:49:38.280 By the way, Kip is the man.

00:49:40.980 Kip is the man.

00:49:41.440 There you go, Kip.

00:49:42.360 Kip is the man.

00:49:43.140 That's true.

00:49:43.880 That's always going to be true.

00:49:46.820 Look, a couple of things.

00:49:48.900 You're more immersed in this world than I am, and I'm not going to get into specifics.

00:49:51.960 I'm actually going to give you one that maybe a lot of guys don't think about.

00:49:55.680 But number one, life insurance, crucial.

00:49:58.840 You need to have life insurance.

00:50:00.060 I'm not going to get in a debate of universal, whole life, term, whatever.

00:50:03.280 Just you need life insurance.

00:50:04.300 You can talk with you or one of your guys or somebody else about that, but life insurance.

00:50:10.020 Number two, will and or trust, depending on the complexity of your situation.

00:50:14.740 I have a trust.

00:50:15.700 Some of that's being updated based on my personal situation, but I have a trust that will either

00:50:23.580 own my assets or be the beneficiary of other assets, depending on what those assets are

00:50:28.060 for legal reasons and tax reasons.

00:50:29.780 You can talk with an attorney about that.

00:50:31.720 Another one.

00:50:32.540 So you've got will trust.

00:50:33.440 Uh, you've got your life insurance.

00:50:35.360 The other one that I would have in place is, uh, advanced care directives.

00:50:40.120 So if you become incapacitated and say you're in a coma, who's going to make your decisions?

00:50:46.580 Can, can, do you have a power of attorney in place so that somebody can make financial

00:50:50.520 decisions on your behalf?

00:50:51.540 If you, if you're unable to, um, that's really important.

00:50:55.220 Um, the other thing is, so that's three.

00:50:57.600 So the fourth one I would say is make sure that the people you love and that will, that

00:51:03.120 would possibly be impacted by your death.

00:51:05.420 Know where all your shit is.

00:51:06.780 Like, where is your life insurance paperwork?

00:51:10.000 Where are the titles and deeds to the houses and cars?

00:51:12.860 Where are the passwords?

00:51:14.660 How do we access bank accounts?

00:51:16.580 Like if you die, they need to be able to have access to all that stuff.

00:51:20.740 Who's your insurance agent?

00:51:21.860 Who's your attorney?

00:51:22.680 Who's your CPA?

00:51:23.560 Do you have all that stuff listed out so that she would have somewhere to go?

00:51:27.520 What, who's your financial advisor?

00:51:29.200 Does she know your financial advisor?

00:51:31.040 Is she making financial decisions?

00:51:32.540 Is she privy to what's going on in the bank account?

00:51:35.320 A lot of times not.

00:51:36.820 So those are the financial things.

00:51:38.780 So making sure your people know where stuff is life insurance will end or trust.

00:51:43.140 And then your power of attorney slash advanced care directives.

00:51:46.040 The only other thing that I would add to this, and I'm seeing this from a different perspective

00:51:49.980 because I got a message.

00:51:52.660 I might get emotional here.

00:51:54.240 I got a message about a month ago, maybe two months ago from the wife of one of my

00:52:00.240 podcast guests who had died unexpectedly.

00:52:03.940 Chris Elise died unexpectedly.

00:52:06.620 His wife reached out and I won't share the email because, or the message, because that's

00:52:09.740 between her and I, but the underlying message was one of gratitude.

00:52:14.360 She was so grateful that I had Chris on the podcast because now she can go back and she

00:52:20.900 could listen to that podcast.

00:52:22.260 She could hear his voice.

00:52:24.380 She could hear his thought process.

00:52:26.440 She could hear the passion and enthusiasm.

00:52:28.320 She has something real that she can listen to and that she can watch and see her husband

00:52:34.840 who passed away, who she no longer has access to in that way.

00:52:38.440 And now it's this cemented bit of, you know, a little memento to remember the conversation

00:52:47.840 that he had with me.

00:52:48.680 And that's one thing that's really powerful about my podcast is that if, and when I die,

00:52:54.760 the people that care will have access to thousands upon thousands of hours of me listening to

00:53:02.580 me, my thought process for better or worse, but they'll always have access to those files.

00:53:08.280 And that is really, really powerful.

00:53:10.080 I bring that up because there might be an opportunity for you to write letters, for you to record

00:53:14.900 videos, for you to document even vacations.

00:53:18.860 So family has that for you to take pictures.

00:53:20.740 Like I'm not a big picture taker when I'm on vacation necessarily, but I'm like, man, this

00:53:24.520 is documentation.

00:53:25.240 Like you never know.

00:53:26.140 Somebody might want to look at this if I'm gone and have access to this stuff.

00:53:29.640 So I think having a way to carry on your, your presence to some, obviously lesser degree

00:53:35.760 would be valuable too.

00:53:37.580 Yeah.

00:53:37.880 Journaling.

00:53:38.460 As you said that journaling, yeah, for sure.

00:53:41.080 Great.

00:53:41.220 Yeah.

00:53:42.040 Yeah.

00:53:42.380 Yeah.

00:53:42.940 That I, I think you nailed it.

00:53:44.860 The that's everything I would have said.

00:53:48.520 The only thing to add to it, just cause you mentioned it as far as the life insurance

00:53:54.260 side, because he specifically is talking about how do you take care of your children, your

00:53:59.180 spouse, you, you know, those, the people closest to you in your lives, life insurance is the

00:54:04.280 only thing that can replace you financially, um, and immediately.

00:54:09.200 And so I think it's, should be less of a debate of which one you should get.

00:54:14.320 And it's more important that you have something.

00:54:16.960 And I think the ideal is to have it all.

00:54:20.320 Cause as you said it, I thought of, I mean, I'm obviously in this world and, and sell all

00:54:25.440 types that they make.

00:54:27.140 Um, but I have permanent coverage and I also have temporary coverage.

00:54:31.040 I have term policy and I have, they have death benefits and living benefits.

00:54:35.920 And so the ideal is that you have all of those things so that you're covering all your

00:54:41.100 bases.

00:54:41.660 Now, if you're not in a position where you can afford to have all of those things, you

00:54:46.680 know, and mine will last indefinitely.

00:54:48.600 Like, as long as I live, this stuff will be in place and it's going to provide a death

00:54:52.940 benefit to my family.

00:54:54.380 And then the temporary stuff I have is going to run out at some certain point, you know?

00:54:58.820 And so there's reasons for having both.

00:55:01.700 And I have that, and I have those bases covered, but if you can afford both, then get the one

00:55:06.260 you can afford.

00:55:07.380 Because the most important thing is that you're covered at least now.

00:55:10.940 And that, you know, because the worst thing you could have is no coverage, you know, and,

00:55:15.920 and God forbid, and so, um, you know, I think we tend to make excuses of why it's like the

00:55:21.300 living trust.

00:55:22.040 Well, it costs, you know, three grand, four grand, five grand to put a living trust in

00:55:26.960 place and to have a living will and power of attorney and all those things.

00:55:32.480 You know, I don't know if I have that money.

00:55:35.020 Well, yeah, but again, that could be more of a priority than maybe getting a new nicer

00:55:41.740 car for you to drive, you know, on your next major purchase of things, maybe you just line

00:55:48.180 it up so that you can afford it and get in place because, you know, until you're faced

00:55:54.400 with it.

00:55:55.500 Um, and that's one thing after doing what I do for 24 years, I've dealt with hundreds

00:56:01.200 of people's lives and, um, you know, being able to provide coverage for them, but it's

00:56:08.940 the first thing people ask, is that policy still in place?

00:56:13.160 Yeah.

00:56:13.620 Right.

00:56:13.920 And, and then after that point is okay, what do I do with the money?

00:56:18.980 Right.

00:56:19.380 How do I do it?

00:56:20.420 What did, how do I disperse it?

00:56:21.960 How do I make it last?

00:56:23.140 How do I, you know, and so the more clear you can be in those things ahead of time with

00:56:26.740 a trust and a, and a living will and those, I can tell you for my trust, um, and I don't

00:56:32.080 know if this is your experience, the hardest part of all of it was who's going to take care

00:56:35.940 of my kids.

00:56:36.720 And that's changed several times.

00:56:38.980 It's, we're about to change it again.

00:56:40.940 You know, if we die, if the, both of us were to pass at the same time, who takes care of

00:56:45.640 the kids, you know, and that's something that you don't want to think about, but you,

00:56:49.660 if you're really doing your due diligence, you have to consider.

00:56:53.380 Right.

00:56:53.780 And so just taking the time, the effort, putting the, the finances into it.

00:56:59.980 And, uh, it's part of right behind me, right?

00:57:05.920 Protect, provide, preside.

00:57:07.880 It embellishes all of those things.

00:57:10.520 Yep.

00:57:11.400 I would also say one, uh, just one little quick note is even if your wife doesn't have

00:57:16.720 any income, you should probably have some insurance on her too.

00:57:19.760 And I thought about this, like if, if that were to happen,

00:57:23.760 if she doesn't have any direct financial contribution to the household necessarily,

00:57:29.140 but if that were to happen, I can't imagine like having a wife die on Saturday and you're

00:57:37.040 like, Oh, cool.

00:57:37.760 Monday up ready for work.

00:57:40.860 You know, you've got three, four, five kids.

00:57:43.500 You're like, Hey kids, Monday, you guys go back to school and you know, the daycare you're

00:57:47.960 in daycare now, by the way, like mom's not here.

00:57:49.840 So you go back to daycare, you'll be all right.

00:57:51.480 Now I'm going to go back to work.

00:57:52.740 I got to get work done.

00:57:53.660 Like that's come on.

00:57:55.160 Is that what's going to happen?

00:57:56.440 No, of course not.

00:57:58.420 There's going to be a period of time where maybe you need to take off a few months, you

00:58:03.520 know, maybe, maybe your kids, you don't want to rush your kids off to daycare, or maybe

00:58:08.360 you want to pay to bring somebody in so that they're here in the house.

00:58:11.620 And there's some more congruency, especially in one of the hardest, most tragic times in

00:58:15.540 their life.

00:58:15.960 You can't replace what her or what you bring to the family dynamic as far as love and discipline

00:58:21.940 and support and vision, but you can take care of the monetary piece.

00:58:26.520 And that's something that we should be highly, highly considering as men.

00:58:30.660 Yeah.

00:58:30.840 I'm glad you brought that up.

00:58:32.240 Cause that's, I can tell you, I, I can't think of many times that I've sold policies to a family

00:58:40.060 and husband and wife haven't both gotten coverage almost never, um, regardless of who makes the

00:58:47.440 money.

00:58:47.700 And that's a conversation every time.

00:58:49.420 Right.

00:58:50.300 Um, and they're like, oh, well, we have our family.

00:58:52.520 They'll, they'll step in and they'll help.

00:58:54.680 I've heard that one.

00:58:55.800 Yeah.

00:58:56.200 But how are they going to get compensated?

00:58:57.900 Like they don't just drop their lives.

00:58:59.820 They don't just stop their jobs.

00:59:01.320 They don't just like, there's a financial aspect, whether you like it or not, that needs

00:59:06.120 to be thought of.

00:59:07.080 Right.

00:59:07.420 So good point.

00:59:08.760 Cool.

00:59:08.900 Do we have any more?

00:59:09.620 We can take maybe one, maybe two tops, depending on the question.

00:59:12.740 Yeah.

00:59:12.960 Let's do, there's two more.

00:59:14.140 Let's try this first one.

00:59:15.380 Michael O'Neill.

00:59:16.340 What are some pointers on leading men in the workplace and improving employee relations?

00:59:21.480 I work in the home improvement industry.

00:59:24.180 Yeah.

00:59:24.300 I mean, look, we could throw out the advice of, you know, lead by example and you should

00:59:28.420 do that.

00:59:28.940 There's a reason everybody says that is because you should.

00:59:32.040 Uh, but I think there's, this goes back a little bit to the question we were talking

00:59:35.740 about earlier with vocalizing and verbalizing your thought process.

00:59:38.680 The more that you can create a culture of open dialogue and communication, I think the

00:59:43.280 better the work environment's going to be, because if there's not, if that's not happening,

00:59:46.840 there's a lot of assumptions happening.

00:59:48.520 And when we make assumptions, they're typically not favorable assumptions.

00:59:51.840 Like if I, if we had an, so for example, if you or I showed up late to this podcast meeting,

00:59:56.860 I wouldn't think, oh, he's probably enjoying breakfast with his family.

01:00:02.000 I would think what an asshole, like he's supposed to be here and he's leaving me hanging.

01:00:07.040 He's probably on the, he's probably been on the shit or too long, or, you know, he's like

01:00:11.540 got distracted with a project and he's like leaving me hanging.

01:00:14.400 Right.

01:00:14.840 An assumption.

01:00:15.540 Those are all assumptions.

01:00:16.340 The one that I go with is usually not favorable.

01:00:19.400 So the way that we mitigate assuming is by verbalizing everything and being open in our

01:00:26.360 dialogue and being open with communication.

01:00:28.120 And sometimes that means very often, actually, that you as a man, especially in the workplace

01:00:33.020 need to go first.

01:00:34.160 It also means if you're in a leadership capacity that you might need to bring two people to the

01:00:38.960 table to have an actual conversation that might be somewhat contentious because they might

01:00:43.920 be having an issue going on and you're hearing from Bob over here and he's saying one thing

01:00:48.160 and Joe saying this thing about Bob.

01:00:50.480 And here you are stuck in the middle, trying to mitigate the two without them getting together

01:00:53.980 and actually having conversations like men.

01:00:56.240 So if there's an issue between Joe and Bob, it's like, guys, come on, let's do this.

01:01:00.240 We're doing this right now.

01:01:01.620 And let's, let's have it out.

01:01:03.000 Like, let's figure out what's going on here.

01:01:04.360 The rules for engagement.

01:01:06.400 We're not just going to start slinging insults and being dicks to each other.

01:01:09.440 Here are the rules.

01:01:10.240 Here are the boundaries.

01:01:10.920 And so, so as long as we're within these guidelines, this is a conversation we need

01:01:15.200 to have.

01:01:15.640 And you know what?

01:01:16.380 I think more often than not, Bob and Joe walk away with a new level of respect for each

01:01:20.760 other and odds are pretty good working towards a solution.

01:01:23.580 I'm not going to say immediately everything's going to be fixed, but you're now on the path

01:01:27.380 to solving problems.

01:01:28.700 I would also say with regards to communication is that if somebody communicates with you,

01:01:32.720 or I'll say it this way, if people aren't communicating with you, that might be a red flag that they're

01:01:38.480 afraid to communicate with you, not because of their own issues, but because of yours.

01:01:42.580 If you have a subordinate, for example, who comes to you or has never come to you or has

01:01:46.940 an issue, but works around your back, he might be afraid to tell you because of the way that

01:01:51.840 you've responded in the past.

01:01:53.420 So how are you responding to feedback?

01:01:56.220 How are you responding to criticism?

01:01:58.540 How are you responding to challenging circumstances?

01:02:01.640 If it's not favorable, then people are less likely to come to you when you actually need

01:02:07.960 them to come to you.

01:02:09.420 So consider that the best way you can do that is to create stability in your response.

01:02:15.100 You can't be up and down all over the place.

01:02:18.240 Like if you come with this news, I'm here.

01:02:19.760 If you come with this news, I'm here.

01:02:21.540 Any news that people come to you, you have to have a measured, calculated response.

01:02:26.640 And the reason you want that is because you are setting a precedent for people.

01:02:31.540 When I come to Ryan, here's how he responds.

01:02:35.140 And there's safety in that.

01:02:37.040 There's comfort in that.

01:02:38.480 There's no guesswork in that.

01:02:40.800 If your kids are worried about coming to you because of how you'll respond, whether you'll

01:02:44.400 be super excited or blow up or whatever, they're just not going to come to you because

01:02:47.800 it's scary.

01:02:49.380 Uncertainty represents fear and risk.

01:02:52.980 So eliminate the doubt and uncertainty by being measured in all of your responses, positive

01:02:58.340 and negative, by the way.

01:03:00.060 I would take it an extra step than that.

01:03:02.500 As you said it, I thought it's important that in any working environment that you have

01:03:06.840 some sort of a, I call it a code of honor.

01:03:09.500 And the reason I call it a code of honor, I got it from a book.

01:03:13.680 One of Kiyosaki's guys, it's part of the Rich Dad Network.

01:03:18.500 What's his name?

01:03:19.140 Blair Singer is the author.

01:03:20.400 And it used to be called How to Build a Business Team That Wins or something like that.

01:03:26.420 They changed the title, I think, to code of honor, I think.

01:03:31.360 But in that book, he explains how to build one.

01:03:34.500 And basically, everything you're talking about, the culture, the expectations of the team,

01:03:39.200 you build together.

01:03:40.480 So if you don't have one, you kind of take all of the leaders in your team.

01:03:44.660 And it's a pretty gnarly process.

01:03:46.240 We did it early on in our business, and we still have the same code of honor in place

01:03:50.800 today, 20 years later, from when we built it.

01:03:54.820 And it was hard.

01:03:56.340 We argued.

01:03:57.200 We actually went on a retreat for a couple of days together as leadership.

01:04:00.860 And hey, we should have this.

01:04:02.060 We should not have this.

01:04:03.100 We should, this is why.

01:04:04.080 This is what we should incorporate.

01:04:05.200 This is, and the thing is, those things are so clear now that any person coming into our

01:04:10.200 organization, it's on the wall.

01:04:12.220 And we say, hey, here's our code of honor.

01:04:14.260 This is how we operate.

01:04:16.520 This is our expectations.

01:04:18.460 When you do this, this is how you're going to, this is how you're going to operate.

01:04:26.420 You know, when you do these things, this is our expectations of you.

01:04:29.320 So it's clear, and it's upfront, and you, because that's the way we operate, also know

01:04:37.460 that if you see us breaking this code, you can call us on it.

01:04:41.760 And you're not, we're not going to get upset at you if you call us on it, because that's

01:04:46.120 our expectation of the organization.

01:04:48.040 And so from day one, somebody brand new can call, you know, my wife and I as owners of

01:04:54.260 the company on things that we break in our code of honor, um, because that's, and they

01:04:59.440 can, and they'll never get in trouble for it.

01:05:01.320 And so, you know, having that upfront, um, has helped us.

01:05:07.900 I mean, I can't even tell you, um, with number one, finding the right people to get on board,

01:05:13.260 because if they see that's how you operate and they can agree with that from the get-go,

01:05:16.900 you're just going to get less concerns anyways.

01:05:19.880 Right.

01:05:20.120 Right.

01:05:20.260 Um, you know, and then when they're, when they come up, there's already a clear way to

01:05:25.120 deal with it.

01:05:25.940 Okay.

01:05:26.300 So that's one on what you said, what I would add is also how to improve the environment

01:05:31.040 and how to lead men.

01:05:32.260 It's interesting that you said men, cause it doesn't matter if they're men or women is

01:05:35.780 you also need to recognize what they're doing.

01:05:37.600 Right.

01:05:37.940 So get really good, get better than you are currently at recognizing people for their efforts.

01:05:43.100 Cause too many jobs only focus on what you're doing wrong.

01:05:46.380 You know, you could, you, we've all heard the stories of the guy who showed up for

01:05:49.980 you know, 20 straight years, never had a late day, never a sick day, you know, and

01:05:55.280 then they give him a little like plaque at the end of 20 years of like, thank you.

01:06:00.800 You know, that's it.

01:06:01.640 After 20 years, never along the way, did they tell him he was a stud, you're doing

01:06:05.800 awesome, you know, whatever.

01:06:07.000 And how much further that could have gone now at the end of 20 years, he's mad that all

01:06:10.740 he got was a plaque for it.

01:06:11.920 You know, where it, it would have taken an easy, you know, someone recognizing, but let's

01:06:17.960 say he went 19 years of never messing up.

01:06:21.600 And then he was sick one day and had the flu and didn't call in.

01:06:25.660 And then he gets hammered for not being there that morning.

01:06:29.520 Right.

01:06:30.000 So he was perfect for 19 years.

01:06:32.200 And before he got to 20, now he gets hammered and no plaque.

01:06:36.600 How's that guy feel?

01:06:37.960 Right.

01:06:38.260 And so they only, most places only recognize you for what you're doing wrong and never what

01:06:42.340 you're doing.

01:06:42.700 Right.

01:06:42.840 So make the extra effort, especially the things you want everyone in your working environment

01:06:48.900 to do more of find the people that are doing those things the way you want them done and

01:06:53.520 praise them in front of everybody.

01:06:55.300 You know, whether it's a plaque, whether it's some ward is just getting up in front of everybody

01:06:59.560 and saying it, that stuff goes so far and you'll start to see more people doing more

01:07:04.520 of the right things that you want your organization, you know, and, and between the vocalization

01:07:11.480 and little things that goes a long way.

01:07:13.680 And then the second thing is make sure that you do little retreats or do things that are

01:07:18.620 beyond just the workplace that are fun, whether it's barbecues, get togethers, create an environment

01:07:24.580 where they can be consistently themselves, whether they're at work, you know, and, and,

01:07:29.560 and integrating their personal life.

01:07:31.380 And this is contrary to most business beliefs.

01:07:35.060 I think old business, old corporate America, the way that they thought is that you separate

01:07:38.680 those things.

01:07:39.800 I think the new and better way of doing it is that you integrate those things because

01:07:44.780 the more congruent people can be in their personal lives and in their working spaces, the happier

01:07:50.440 they're going to be in both places.

01:07:52.340 And so the more people can come together and be around and do things together that are fun

01:07:57.420 and interesting and that they work together in the, the better, the working environment

01:08:03.080 is going to be as well.

01:08:04.920 Yeah.

01:08:05.120 It's awesome, man.

01:08:06.160 That's awesome.

01:08:06.740 Great advice.

01:08:07.580 All right.

01:08:08.100 Let's let's hit the rapid fire on that last question.

01:08:10.240 If there is one.

01:08:11.240 Okay.

01:08:11.680 It is, I'm dealing with the narcissist at work.

01:08:15.360 This person is also a female.

01:08:16.960 I try not to engage with this person at all, unless it's work related.

01:08:21.020 I've even not engaged with this person through messages either.

01:08:25.120 My question is, is there any other strategies or tactics I'm missing to not deal with this

01:08:30.360 narcissist?

01:08:31.240 I'm at a loss and it's causing stress as well.

01:08:33.780 Thanks.

01:08:34.560 I mean, I don't know what deal with means.

01:08:36.540 If they're, if this is some, somebody you have to deal with, if they're crucial to the

01:08:39.560 project, if they're not, I wouldn't deal with them.

01:08:41.820 If they are, I would, I would support them.

01:08:45.100 That's it.

01:08:46.060 I would play into their narcissism.

01:08:47.780 I'm not saying at your expense, I'm saying that's a narcissist.

01:08:50.680 So make them feel good.

01:08:52.320 Then, then all of a sudden you're on their team.

01:08:54.120 You know what I mean?

01:08:54.640 And you don't have to be at odds with this person.

01:08:56.260 Again, this is not to say you should cross your boundaries or allow yourself to be walked

01:08:59.600 over.

01:08:59.980 It's not that at all.

01:09:01.160 But if there's things that this person likes or feels motivated by about feeling good or inflating

01:09:06.180 their ego, serve it.

01:09:07.680 That's fine.

01:09:08.000 You got to work together with them.

01:09:10.020 So if, and like I said, also, if you don't have to work with them, then just don't.

01:09:14.360 And it sounds like you're doing what you can do to do that.

01:09:16.880 Yeah.

01:09:17.260 I, anytime I hear people trying to, to avoid anyone in a working environment that never

01:09:26.100 ends well.

01:09:27.620 And so I think any, any avoidance is only temporary.

01:09:32.740 And so you need, I typically always like to go straight at stuff.

01:09:36.880 So not that you go straight to her and tell her your issues with her, but maybe include

01:09:42.180 some leadership in wherever you're at and have a conversation of, Hey, this is how I

01:09:47.280 feel.

01:09:47.760 And I want to support you and I want to help you.

01:09:50.120 But, you know, this is how it's coming across to me.

01:09:53.400 And to me, it's not productive.

01:09:55.420 You know, it's counterproductive, whatever it is.

01:09:59.600 And include the leadership in that.

01:10:02.060 Again, it doesn't specify if she has a leadership and leadership capacity in your working environment.

01:10:08.320 So I think including that in some way to find the happy medium, but I think the, what you

01:10:14.260 said, Ryan's dead on with the narcissist is you can't ever, it can't ever seem like an

01:10:18.700 attack.

01:10:19.400 Cause that only make things work.

01:10:20.980 It's more like, Hey, this is how it's being perceived on my end.

01:10:24.460 And I want to help.

01:10:25.680 I want to support.

01:10:26.460 I want everybody to be wetter or better.

01:10:28.340 And I want you to get what you want as well.

01:10:31.560 So, you know, how can we communicate so that I'm not feeling this way and you get what you

01:10:38.040 want to write.

01:10:39.300 So it's going to be an uncomfortable conversation, but I think you need to be willing to have

01:10:43.180 it for sure.

01:10:45.180 Sweet.

01:10:45.680 We got through them all today.

01:10:46.600 Good work.

01:10:47.640 Yeah.

01:10:48.620 How'd that guys appreciate your questions?

01:10:51.180 You had some good questions today.

01:10:52.280 Hopefully we gave some good answers, some different things to consider.

01:10:54.460 There was a few questions in there.

01:10:55.500 We haven't been asked before.

01:10:56.400 You know, I liked the question about apathy versus emotional availability and maturity.

01:11:00.140 I thought that was powerful.

01:11:01.960 Obviously we talked a lot about verbalizing your thought process with the people that

01:11:05.420 you care about.

01:11:07.240 That was actually kind of the underlying theme with this one.

01:11:10.820 Communication.

01:11:11.420 Yeah.

01:11:11.740 Yeah.

01:11:12.180 And then we talked about the marriage and relationship issues within the Facebook group.

01:11:16.180 Again, it goes back to communication.

01:11:18.240 So there's the underlying theme.

01:11:20.840 All right, guys.

01:11:21.700 Appreciate you guys.

01:11:22.420 Sean, appreciate you.

01:11:23.180 Thanks for filling in.

01:11:23.920 Man, I do mean it when I say I love having you fill in.

01:11:27.260 Always great insight.

01:11:28.600 I mean, you've got so much experience with what you do and it's nice to be able to offload

01:11:32.980 some of that and hopefully this serves other people.

01:11:36.000 All right, guys.

01:11:36.440 So we'll be back on Friday.

01:11:37.960 Until then, go out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be.

01:11:41.800 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:11:44.720 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:11:48.320 We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 02, 2023

Watch What People Hide, Apathy Vs Emotional Availability, and The Power of Verbalization ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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