Order of Man - What is Freedom, The Finite Game vs the Infinite Game, and Defining Your Legacy

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.140 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.700 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's going on, man? Great to see you today. Looking forward

00:00:27.720 to our questions. I know anytime we field questions from the Iron Council, I know they're

00:00:33.800 going to be solid. But even saying that, the questions that have come from outside of the

00:00:39.080 Iron Council have also been more solid lately. Have you noticed that? I have. I have. I think

00:00:44.760 they finally caught on that we're filtering out bad questions, and so those have stopped.

00:00:50.580 Either that or they'll know we'll make fun of them. I was actually talking about this because

00:00:56.800 we had a legacy event this last weekend, and we were talking about peer pressure with

00:01:02.000 the young men. I don't call them boys. I call them young men. I think that's an important

00:01:05.400 distinction. And I asked them all, generally, I said, is peer pressure bad? You know, a lot

00:01:10.860 of them said, yes, peer pressure is bad. But I actually contended that. And I said, not

00:01:14.680 necessarily. It depends on who's giving you the pressure, right? Because we all know the

00:01:18.400 phrase iron sharpens iron.

00:01:19.380 Your pressure do what?

00:01:20.660 Right. And we know the phrase iron sharpens iron. So if the pressure is good coming from the

00:01:24.860 right place from the right people, that peer pressure is actually a very powerful thing.

00:01:30.420 There's men in my life, whether they're coaches or mentors, either directly or indirectly, or you

00:01:35.120 or guys in the iron council who put some pressure on me to perform in a meaningful and significant

00:01:41.140 way. So peer pressure is not inherently bad. It's who's doing the pressure and what, like you said,

00:01:46.520 they're pressuring you to do.

00:01:48.680 Yeah, for sure. For sure. And quick update, because it's bound to be a question for everybody.

00:01:54.620 If we posted this anywhere else, I assumed the event was awesome. I saw tons of photos on

00:02:00.480 Instagram at Ryan Mickler. Gatchco posted some stuff. It looks like the event was just a huge

00:02:06.560 success.

00:02:07.640 Yeah, it was awesome. It was our first father-son event here. We did one other event here. When I

00:02:12.920 say here, I'm talking about my property here in Maine. And it was awesome. The guys stayed

00:02:19.020 in our barn. We had bunk beds lined out almost like military barracks. You'll see when you come

00:02:24.240 out for our main event. And it just turned out so good. And I've actually got a list because

00:02:30.900 I talk with you guys a lot about doing after action reviews. I do the same thing. I'm not

00:02:35.500 telling you to do anything I wouldn't do. So I've got a list for Thursday, a list for Friday,

00:02:40.240 a list for Saturday.

00:02:41.100 Of your AERs for each day.

00:02:44.640 Everything I need to do to change it and tweak it and adjust it and what I need to do.

00:02:48.700 And then last night, after the event was over, I was exhausted just mentally. Not physically

00:02:54.380 exhausted, but mentally and emotionally, which is sometimes more taxing. And I just spent time,

00:03:01.500 I spent probably $3,000 last night in ordering new merchandise, new supplies, new this, new that,

00:03:09.020 just to make it a better experience next time we do it. So I love it. I love that constant feedback

00:03:14.940 and figuring out how we can improve and make it better. And so the next couple events, it's looking

00:03:20.920 like we're probably going to be doing every year moving forward. The legacy will be the last weekend

00:03:28.640 weekend of September. So just get that on your radar right now, guys.

00:03:33.660 Time to have as a standard.

00:03:35.060 Yeah. Yeah. That way everybody knows last weekend of September, there's only 20 spots. I'm sure the

00:03:41.860 guys that came this time are probably going to fill up at least half of those, I would imagine.

00:03:46.480 So we'll let you know when the rest of the dates are out, which will be in the next two weeks.

00:03:50.840 Very cool. Awesome. We mentioned this already. We're fielding questions from the Iron Council,

00:03:57.120 which is our exclusive brotherhood. To learn more about the Iron Council,

00:04:00.860 go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council. Shall we jump right into it?

00:04:05.580 Let's do it, man. Let's get after it.

00:04:06.880 All right. All right. First question, Nolan Connell. This is derived from this week's topic.

00:04:14.080 This is a very first question asked and is very impactful. The follow-up questions are what came

00:04:20.520 from the discussions within my team. I would like to see what you and Kip have to say on this topic.

00:04:25.640 Are you free? What does freedom look like to you? What steps can you take to become free?

00:04:31.680 Is it a state of being or a mindset that you must constantly evaluate?

00:04:38.140 So what Nolan is referring to is the monthly topic in the Iron Council, creating your new reality,

00:04:43.220 which is the topic of the month for September. So he's asking what is free? Look, very simply,

00:04:50.040 freedom is the ability to, it's hard because I have to answer this generally, but freedom is the

00:04:55.660 ability to do what you want, when you want to do it, how you want to do it, why you want to do it,

00:05:00.260 period. That's it. And if you're not able to do any of that, what you want to do or how you want to do

00:05:07.580 it or why you want to do it or when you want to do it, then you're not truly free. So is it a state

00:05:14.080 of being, I mean, it's partly mindset for sure, but that's not it because you might say, well,

00:05:20.000 I'm free. And yet you've subjugated yourself to your wife or your boss or your kids or your

00:05:24.540 colleagues or your coworkers or your clients. I'll give you a great example from clients.

00:05:29.100 Real estate agents are a prime example. A lot of them say, well, you know, I have to meet on nights

00:05:34.220 and weekends, but I don't want to do that. Okay. So are you really free? No, you're not.

00:05:40.540 Now, if you want to, that's one thing. But if you're saying to me, I don't want to meet my

00:05:44.340 clients on nights and weekends. You're a victim of it. Yeah. Yeah. Then you're not really free.

00:05:49.880 And people say, well, that's just the way the real estate market is. Are you sure?

00:05:53.960 Why not change the market? Yeah. Why not change the market? Why not get so busy that if somebody

00:05:58.520 comes and so good at your job, that if somebody comes to you and says, Hey, I only have this Saturday.

00:06:02.600 I say, sorry, I don't do Saturdays. And they say, well, oh, we really want to work with you. Would you do the

00:06:08.040 Thursday at three o'clock? Yeah, absolutely. But not Saturday at 10. And I know all you real

00:06:15.200 estate agents are rolling over in your graves right now. Like, oh, my head's about to explode,

00:06:19.620 Ryan. You don't understand. No, I get it. I understand. Because I was in the financial

00:06:24.300 services market for a business for almost 10 years. And that was standard. Like you meet on

00:06:30.080 nights and weekends. I didn't, I did it early on because I didn't know any better. And I didn't

00:06:34.940 have the clientele. But later I said, no, you want to meet and work with me. You work within my

00:06:39.960 parameters. And if you don't, that's okay. I got 10 people lined up who will work within my parameters.

00:06:46.360 But that comes with that. That is what freedom is. And I didn't want to work nights and I didn't

00:06:51.060 want to work weekends. When I was in retail, I didn't want to work on the weekends. I didn't want

00:06:55.060 to work holidays. And so I told my wife, I said, no, I'm not going back to retail when I come back to

00:06:59.120 Iraq because from Iraq, because I don't want to work nights and weekends. And I made the choice.

00:07:03.860 Yes. Now it was hard because I left a good job and something that was meaningful, something I

00:07:08.800 enjoyed, but I would rather have the life I want than just chase the dollar or whatever.

00:07:16.120 People will email me quite often actually and say, Hey, you know, Ryan, I'd love to have you on my

00:07:19.680 podcast. And I try to be very gracious in doing that and say, yes, I would, I would like to come

00:07:24.580 on your podcast. And they'll say, well, you know, I'm just doing this part-time. Can you do

00:07:27.620 Thursday at 7 PM? No, but I can do Thursday at 3 PM. Oh, well, I can't. Cause I'm working

00:07:35.360 take a lunch break. That's on you. That's not on me. And 90% of the time at the point I'm at now,

00:07:43.040 these guys will say, okay, yeah, I'll change my schedule. Yeah. Right. You will change your

00:07:47.760 schedule. I will not change my schedule. And that's what freedom is. I'm free because I've built

00:07:54.860 it to the point specifically within this business where I don't need to do that. Now, there would

00:07:59.740 be some people I would do that for. If Joe Rogan called and said, Hey, Ryan, we want you on the

00:08:04.600 podcast and you need to be here Friday evening at midnight. I would be there Friday evening at

00:08:09.680 midnight, but that's a choice that I make a deliberate intentional choice. I would not feel

00:08:15.100 forced to do that. I would weigh the pros and the cons. I would weigh the cost and the sacrifice.

00:08:20.420 And that's a choice I would make. Yeah. But that's what freedom is. It's making those

00:08:26.320 conscious decisions. There's also another question that came up later down. Cause I looked through the

00:08:30.100 threat of questions about sovereignty and God. And I actually really am interested in addressing

00:08:35.940 that question. Cause it actually ties into what we're talking about here. Agreed. We have a couple

00:08:39.940 of biblical questions. Let me run this by you, Ryan, because I was, this is months ago,

00:08:46.500 maybe even a year ago or two where I was thinking about freedom and how from on the flip side of

00:08:56.060 this, how we try to rob people of their freedom in our relationships a little bit. So let me give

00:09:02.760 you an example where I don't, I, I, I might manipulate you to make a decision, or if you don't do what I

00:09:13.020 think you should do, I withhold myself and I'm an ass and you're what I mean? And we, we manipulate

00:09:19.180 people and we kind of rob them a little. Don't get me wrong. They still have their choice, but it's

00:09:25.340 interesting on how we try to take away those freedoms from people as well and course them into

00:09:32.160 doing what we think they should or should not do. Yeah. So here's another interesting conversation we

00:09:38.920 had this weekend with the fathers and the young men. We were talking about responsibility and, and

00:09:44.640 what we were addressing. I can't remember the exact topic we were, we were, we were covering, but

00:09:51.320 responsibility came up. And normally when we look at responsibility, we try to divvy up percentages

00:09:58.240 like, Oh, 50% goes to Kip because of this podcast and 50% goes to me. Right. To make this a good

00:10:05.080 podcast. Got it. But the risk, but the response, because you're half and I'm half of it, but the

00:10:11.080 responsibility pie isn't finite. So actually Kip, you don't have 50% responsibility of this. You know

00:10:19.440 how much responsibility I have over this particular podcast? What would you say? Over our AMA? Yes.

00:10:26.860 Well, it depends. Like if, if you said, Hey, I'm out today, then I think, okay, my responsibility is a

00:10:32.820 hundred percent. I got to make sure that the recording goes good, that I get the files to

00:10:36.320 whoever for this episode. But what if I, what if I'm available? What about this one today?

00:10:41.060 What responsibility do you have for this podcast? I don't know. Like, I mean, part of me feels like

00:10:47.580 I should have extreme ownership, right. And come to the table and go, Hey, if Ryan's not on at,

00:10:52.820 at our scheduled time, I should be reached out and like actually take and be driven to make sure it

00:10:58.000 occurs. Okay. So give me a percentage. I don't know.

00:11:03.060 I'll tell you what I, what I think. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me what you think.

00:11:06.820 Because the responsibility pie isn't finite. You have a hundred percent responsibility for this

00:11:11.220 podcast. Whether I show up or not, you have a hundred percent responsibility to make sure this

00:11:16.760 thing goes well. Yeah. And how much responsibility do I have to make sure this thing goes well?

00:11:21.860 A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a marriage. It ain't 50, 50. It's a hundred, a hundred.

00:11:27.680 Yeah. My wife has a hundred percent responsibility for our marriage. I have a hundred percent

00:11:32.620 responsibility for our marriage. The responsibility pie guys is not finite. It, it, you, you have to

00:11:38.820 have a hundred percent responsibility for everything that you've decided to go in on.

00:11:44.140 And you might say, well, you know, Ryan, but like, I have these outside factors. I have this team

00:11:49.720 member who's not doing what he should be doing. Okay. Well, that's your responsibility. That's not

00:11:54.520 your fault. Maybe he dropped the ball, but you can be damn sure that is your responsibility.

00:11:59.540 Now, if, if, if you're on a team and let's say there's five people, uh, that are working on this,

00:12:07.140 you might say, well, it's 20% of each of us. And I'm only a component of this. And you notice Joe

00:12:11.400 over here, dropping the ball. Do you only worry about your 20%? Hell no. You're a hundred percent

00:12:17.500 in, or you're not in, this is a go, no, go exercise, meaning you're all in or all out pick,

00:12:24.920 but none of this 15, 20, 30, 50%, no, a hundred percent or nothing. And you're going to be better,

00:12:34.960 man. You're going to add so much more value. People are going to look at you as valuable.

00:12:38.960 You're going to, your relationships are going to be more significant. You're going to get

00:12:42.120 promotions. You're going to lead businesses. You're going to pick up new clients a hundred percent

00:12:46.980 in all things. Let me ask you this, Ryan, because it was just present for me as you're asking this

00:12:52.760 question. Um, and I, I could see, I, I get it. I have an easier time comprehending that approach

00:13:01.860 of kind of extreme ownership when something goes wrong. You know, it's like, Hey, own it,

00:13:08.220 look for these areas in which you could have, you could step up and have influence. And what could

00:13:12.940 you change to help mitigate those concerns or whatever? How do you address this from the perspective

00:13:18.500 of not wanting to step on someone's toes? Cause that actually crossed my mind for a minute.

00:13:23.460 Right. It was, well, I could say a hundred percent, but I don't want Ryan to think that like,

00:13:27.460 that I'm trying to control quote unquote podcast. Right. Or you don't even say,

00:13:33.180 but again, you're, what you're saying right now is looking at it from a finite perspective. Okay.

00:13:40.380 What you're saying, let's just take a pie. All right. Imagine a pie and the pie is a whole,

00:13:46.520 right? We know that from math, it's one over one, it's whole. Yeah. And finite means that we all divvy

00:13:53.380 up shares of that pie based on what we think our weight of the responsibility is. So if there's two

00:13:59.280 of us, maybe it's 70, 30 or 50, 50 or whatever. And then that equals one, that equals the whole,

00:14:04.740 that's a finite approach. Okay. And so what I'm telling you to do is look at it as an infinite pie,

00:14:12.700 meaning there's no end. There's no beginning. It's infinite. So you have a hundred percent.

00:14:18.480 I have a hundred percent. And you might look at that and say, well, that equals 200%. That's not

00:14:22.620 right. Yes, it is because it's fine. It's infinite, not finite, but the same is true. If things go wrong

00:14:30.020 and you're like, well, I don't want to step on toes. You're doing the same thing. You're playing

00:14:33.540 a finite game. You're saying that Ryan, if I take responsibility for this, I'm taking away from you.

00:14:38.680 Well, but it's, but it's not, it's not a finite pie. It's an infinite pie. So if you take a hundred

00:14:44.540 percent, are you taking anything from me? No, because it's infinite. Yeah. So there's no level

00:14:52.280 of responsibility. Here's another way to look at it. A lot of people will shit on other people who

00:14:57.280 are successful and, and, and they'll try to drag them down because they think they believe that if

00:15:03.620 that person's successful, then I can't be, that's a finite game. It's infinite. If somebody else is

00:15:10.460 successful, that doesn't take away from my ability to be successful. If there was only 12 slices of pie

00:15:17.120 or pizza and Kip, you grab six, there's only six left and I got to get my six. And that's how a lot

00:15:23.780 of people address life, but that isn't actually how it works. When you are successful, you're paving the

00:15:30.640 way for me to be more successful. It's an infinite game. So when people say, well, I don't want to step

00:15:36.980 on people's toes. What, like, what a inferior way to look at life. Now there's tactics and there's

00:15:45.940 strategies and there's the way that you do things. I'm not going to step all over my boss because I

00:15:51.800 need a hundred percent of the credit. That's not what I'm saying, guys. I'm saying, take a hundred

00:15:56.560 percent responsibility. And here's another, here's another consideration. When things go really,

00:16:02.680 really well and they work out, you don't need to brag about, I got a hundred percent. Now it's like,

00:16:07.020 Hey guys, look what we did. Yeah. And if you're bragging, you're getting into the finite game

00:16:13.460 because what you're saying when you brag, I did all of this, but you didn't do it all because it's

00:16:18.720 infinite. So there's the finite game and there's the infinite game and it goes, whether you're

00:16:26.580 successful or fall behind or stepping on people's toes or being humble or whatever, finite and

00:16:32.620 infinite. What game are you playing? Got it. Rob Phipps. Do either of you do Wim Hof breathing or

00:16:42.460 cold exposure? If so, have you noticed improvements in recovery performance and physical activities such

00:16:47.840 as Brazilian jujitsu weight training and et cetera? I don't know if I, so I do this actually quite a

00:16:54.500 bit and I don't know if I would say, well, Wim Hof breathing or cold exposure has made me better at

00:17:01.680 jujitsu. I don't, I don't know that I would link it directly to that or has made me stronger.

00:17:06.940 I don't think it would, but from a recovery perspective and the way that I feel and the

00:17:13.620 mental benefits and stimulation that come from it a hundred percent, but it'd be hard for me to

00:17:18.660 directly correlate my improvement in jujitsu or strength with me taking cold baths or cold showers.

00:17:24.740 Like I don't, I don't know that I could directly correlate that, correlate that, but that's one of

00:17:28.620 the exercises we did this weekend with fathers and young men's. And I jumped in, I wasn't planning

00:17:33.280 on doing it because I was moderating everything, but I told guys, I said, look, as a leader, you never

00:17:37.880 asked people to do things you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. And so I, I, I jumped in the ice

00:17:44.060 bath and I wasn't planning on doing it, but I felt like that was a good learning opportunity in the

00:17:48.000 moment. So I jumped in and I did exactly what I asked them. In fact, I did more. I told them to

00:17:53.760 sit in there for two minutes. I sat in there for three minutes because you leaders, we always go

00:17:59.040 first. That's what you have to do if you want to lead and you want to be inspiring and everything to

00:18:02.900 other people. So when I got out and this has been the experience, every time I've gotten to a cold

00:18:08.400 ice bath or cold shower is it's almost euphoric in a way. I just feel very calm. I feel very centered.

00:18:18.600 I know I sleep very, very well. I actually get super warm. My body, I can feel the temperature of my

00:18:26.460 body get very, very warm. And, and I just, I feel like I perform better. The little aches and pains

00:18:34.920 and joint issues and things that I have, they tend to dissipate over that afternoon or that evening.

00:18:40.540 I feel clear, clear, mentally clear and focused. So there's a lot of benefits and I'm not even

00:18:46.500 talking about the physical benefits that are easy to, to quantify like stimulated fat loss and

00:18:51.980 regulating the parasympathetic nervous system. All of these, this data and research we have

00:18:56.700 behind cold exposure and breathing. You can go research that that's scientific. You can measure

00:19:02.120 that. I'm talking about the mental effects and benefits. I don't know that they directly improve

00:19:06.980 those things, but they certainly contribute to it for me anyways. Yeah, for sure. Does, is box breathing

00:19:13.280 part of Wim Hof's breathing technique? Uh, it's, I don't know that he would call it box breathing.

00:19:20.140 Cause he's saying box breathing the way you're, you're saying it. Mark, Mark Devine's concept,

00:19:24.400 I think is four seconds in four second, hold four second out four second, hold four second in.

00:19:31.500 Right. Yeah. And Wim Hof doesn't do that exact breathing. Okay. Similar concepts. Whereas,

00:19:37.860 you know, deep breaths, there's also controlled breaths. There's also an element of, uh, almost

00:19:44.080 hyperventilation, which is hyper oxygenating the blood. So it's not really, it's not box breathing,

00:19:50.120 but there are strategies incorporated into his breathing techniques that are supposed to

00:19:55.060 oxygenate, oxygenate the blood, help your lung capacity, improve functions of the parasympathetic,

00:20:00.320 including your ability to control the parasympathetic nervous system. But, but it's not

00:20:04.860 box breathing. It's different than that. I see. Got it. I was going to say, I, I actually box breathe

00:20:09.800 at nighttime when I'm, when I'm in bed, trying to like clear my mind and go to sleep. And it actually

00:20:17.180 really helps me like kind of relax, you know? So, but honestly, I used to think that stuff was

00:20:23.820 stupid. Yeah. Even, even cold exposure. This is stupid. This is dumb. And, and there's these,

00:20:31.400 these, uh, what are the biohackers who geek out on all this stuff and they go through all the little

00:20:36.280 ins and outs and intricacies. I'm like, that is a freaking waste of time. You're focused on like

00:20:42.760 the minute, like focus on the macro and the micro stuff will take care of itself. Like just eat

00:20:48.740 right. You know, people are like, Oh, diet, keto, uh, uh, intermittent fasting and like all these

00:20:55.200 different kinds of diets. I'm like, you, everybody knows what to eat. Just eat right. And that has been

00:21:00.180 my mentality of, well, what should you do this hit? Or should you do strength training? I don't

00:21:04.640 care. Tell me this. Here's what we ran into in the financial planning practice. Hey, Ryan, uh, uh,

00:21:09.840 can you show me the mutual fund that performed the best over, you know, the last 10 years?

00:21:14.220 Cause right now I'm getting a 5.5% rate of return on average. And if you can show me one that does 6.7,

00:21:21.040 then I will invest in that. And then my next question is, well, tell me how much you're investing

00:21:24.440 right now. Oh, well, I'm not investing anything. Okay. Well, it doesn't really matter what mutual

00:21:29.760 fund you invest in. If you're not actually investing any money. And this is what people do.

00:21:34.940 And I know why they do it. This is exactly why they do it. They do it because they think the

00:21:39.380 research phase is some sort of movement of the needle. Like, well, if I'm researching and I'm,

00:21:44.640 and I can tell people I'm intermittent fasting and I'm trying to figure it out. I'm making progress.

00:21:48.580 No, you're not. You're thinking about making progress. It's like this. You're on a racetrack.

00:21:54.440 And you're going to race a vehicle. You're going to do a quarter mile and you're going to race

00:21:59.220 another vehicle next to you is revving the engine actually part of the race. Like when you rev the

00:22:05.600 engine, but it's not in gear, are you winning the race? I mean, it might sound really good.

00:22:10.680 Your car might sound awesome, but you're actually not moving anywhere. So you're not winning the race.

00:22:17.500 And that's what people do with information. It's like consume, consume, including this podcast.

00:22:21.480 Oh, well, I listened to all 850 of order men podcast. And I read every single book that Jocko

00:22:28.380 wrote. And I watched all of his videos on Monday. And I, and I say, well, cool. Tell me how your

00:22:32.560 life's better over the 12 months. Well, actually, you know, I'm a little worse. Like I gained a few

00:22:36.180 more pounds and been a little bit more lazy, but, but I, but I really liked this stuff. Okay. Now you're

00:22:42.000 just in it for entertainment factor. You're not actually in it for the improvement of yourself.

00:22:47.200 Yeah. That's funny. It, it, it reminds me of, so I did a cycling race with my wife just like three

00:22:55.980 weeks ago and I don't have clip-ons. So I just have cages for my shoes. And it's just like,

00:23:02.540 you're going to be the only guy riding a bike without, without clip-ons. Right. Cause all the

00:23:07.100 cyclists have these, you know, special shoes and pedals. And, and what I told her was honey,

00:23:13.320 in the grand scheme of things, the shoes and by which I'm attached my feet to the pedals is the

00:23:19.800 least of my problems. Right. Like I'm like, that's exactly right. You know what I need to focus on is

00:23:24.560 my, my muscles endurance and my ability to do this for a long period of time. That is my focus. I'll

00:23:31.000 worry about the step-ins later. I'll worry about being more aerodynamic and, you know, these other

00:23:36.800 things, because in the grand scheme of thing, you know, that's going to be a smaller needle later on

00:23:42.220 that, that is not really on my radar. Right. I just need to be able to survive, you know, physically.

00:23:47.880 So, well, if I would, the only, and the only way I would contend with what you just said is if you're

00:23:54.460 going to run, if you're going to race the tour de France, but you're not, yeah, you're, you're on a

00:24:00.540 hundred mile bike ride with your wife. Yeah. You want to be competitive. Sure. Of course. And do your

00:24:06.280 best, but you're not, you're not running the tour de France. Like you're totally. And, and maybe I want

00:24:12.120 to fine tune, right? Maybe my next, next goal is, Hey, I want to finish this thing two hours faster.

00:24:17.840 Okay. And I'm, I've now take, I've addressed the low hanging fruit. Now let's, you know, look at these

00:24:23.660 other areas to fine tune, but like why fine tune something when I'm at the very entry level of, of

00:24:29.920 expertise into something, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because it's the only reason you would do

00:24:33.380 that is because you think you're moving the needle and you're not. Well, it's the old adage. Would you

00:24:37.400 rather have, if you could choose one or the other, would you rather have the skillset or the tools?

00:24:43.700 Of course, you'd always rather have the skillset. Yeah. Always a hundred percent. Yeah. The tools,

00:24:50.900 the tools are important. I'm not saying they're not, I'm just saying if you could only choose,

00:24:56.220 and that's a false dichotomy, I know, but for this, for the sake of this exercise,

00:24:59.680 the skillsets are better than the tools. And then you develop and hone the skillset. And then you start

00:25:05.680 to tweak and adjust and improve and level up the tools and, and that stuff. You can always take

00:25:11.780 care of that. I told the, again, I told the young men this weekend is like, you can, you can always

00:25:16.800 learn the skills. Like I can teach you skills. I can teach you how to organize. I can teach you how

00:25:23.140 to plan out your day. I can teach you a lot of these things. What I can't teach is heart. What I can't

00:25:28.460 teach is assertiveness is caring about other people. I can't teach that stuff. But if you have

00:25:35.660 that, that makes all the difference. Cause I can teach all that other stuff easy day,

00:25:41.380 but I can't teach some of those things. Yeah. Okay. Michael, let me, how does Christian faith

00:25:49.240 conflict with sovereignty as a man, as a Christians, uh, we are sub, we submit to the authority and the

00:25:57.240 will of God, but some of the iron council messages, we are makers of our own destiny and we forge our own

00:26:02.980 path and life just feels that there needs to be a hierarchy of authority. However, that hierarchy is

00:26:08.320 not the excuse or to, or as a cop-out, maybe that is the answer to my question. We are to forge our way

00:26:15.920 under the authority and will of God. So I, this question is one that gets brought up all the time.

00:26:23.660 Yeah. And I, frankly, I don't understand the question. I don't, I understand the question.

00:26:30.380 I don't understand where the hangup is. That's the point I'm making. Okay. Agreed. It's it, you,

00:26:36.160 you started this question with how does it conflict with? It doesn't at all. Cause what is one of the

00:26:43.920 greatest gifts? Let's just talk about Christianity for a minute. And I only talk about Christianity

00:26:48.860 cause that's what I know. There's probably other faiths that believe very much the same way.

00:26:51.480 Let's talk about Christianity. One of the greatest blessings, the gifts that we have been bestowed

00:26:57.160 with is free will is personal agency is the ability to choose our own path to determine right or wrong,

00:27:10.220 to make our own choices. Now that doesn't free us of the consequences of those choices,

00:27:14.060 but we have been blessed with the gift to decide for ourself because if this wasn't the case,

00:27:20.060 there would need be no purpose for this life. Yeah. Cause the purpose of this life is to learn

00:27:27.060 and to grow and to develop and to get better and to improve and then to return to him and help other

00:27:33.560 people do the same. That's the, that's why we're here to be tested. And if you had no personal agency,

00:27:41.200 there would be no test. Yeah. What's the point? Exactly. There's no point to being here.

00:27:46.560 So God in his infinite wisdom said, I will give you personal agency. And then what you do with that

00:27:53.120 is going to determine your destiny. And look, here's the deal. I can be a sovereign man

00:27:59.160 and choose to follow God's path. I don't have to, there's an infinite number of decisions I can make

00:28:11.600 on a daily basis that deviate from his path. And sometimes I do deviate from his path, frankly,

00:28:17.060 like all of us do. Those are my choices, but I haven't relinquished sovereignty because I

00:28:23.080 personally decide to follow a path. Let me break this down on a more secular approach.

00:28:30.820 Let's say you came to me and you said, you know, Ryan, I'm 50 pounds overweight and I really want to

00:28:34.160 lock in my diet, my nutrition, and my fitness. And I said, well, cool. Why don't you go talk with

00:28:40.200 my friend, Josiah Novak? He's a health and fitness coach. Go hire him. He's going to help you get

00:28:45.800 things locked in. And you said, great, I'm going to do that. So you call up Josiah and he says,

00:28:50.880 yeah, I can certainly help you out. It's going to be $200 a month. That's arbitrary. I'm just

00:28:55.640 throwing out a number. So don't, don't quote me on that. Otherwise he might be mad or happy. I don't

00:28:59.760 know, depending on what he does. Okay. So he says $200 a month and you say, okay, yeah, that,

00:29:06.940 that sounds fair. Um, all right. Yeah, let's do it. You give me a nutrition plan and you give me a

00:29:12.760 workout plan. Uh, and then I'm going to follow it. Do you feel inferior because you hired a coach

00:29:19.280 and he gives you a plan for fitness and nutrition and you follow it? Do you feel frankly, do you

00:29:27.160 feel like your freedom is taken away? Do you feel like you're inferior? Do you feel inadequate? Do you

00:29:32.700 feel like you're not in control of your own destiny? Of course you don't feel like that.

00:29:36.840 That sounds stupid. I know because you've purposely intentionally made the decision to follow somebody

00:29:43.600 who has some things figured out. You look at Josiah, he's got things on lock, man. He's fit.

00:29:48.500 He's got a lovely wife. He's got a beautiful family. Uh, he's got a, he's got a thriving business.

00:29:53.540 He's fit. He's healthy. He feels good. And you, and you want to be like that. I want to be like that.

00:29:58.160 I don't feel inferior or inadequate or, or subject to Josiah because I asked him to help me with my

00:30:06.840 fitness stuff. But why do we do that in the same context of spirituality? I don't feel inferior

00:30:12.920 because I've voluntarily chosen to walk a particular path that I've decided to fight, uh, follow the path

00:30:19.960 of morality that I've decided to be disciplined to, uh, limit exposure to certain activities and

00:30:27.320 behaviors and substances. And I've decided to embrace going to church and following in his

00:30:33.780 footsteps. I don't feel, I don't feel inadequate. I don't feel like I gave anything up by the way,

00:30:40.420 guys, the same guys who say, well, is there any conflict between sovereignty and Christianity

00:30:46.040 are the same guys who wear the discipline equals freedom t-shirt.

00:30:49.120 Okay. Well, so if we're taking your logic, then this discipline adherence to a set of

00:30:58.840 behaviors and patterns and thoughts limit your sovereignty. Is that what you're saying?

00:31:05.140 No, of course it doesn't. Cause you voluntarily decided to be disciplined.

00:31:08.760 Yeah. So guys, let's get over the, let's get over and they do the same thing with stoicism.

00:31:14.760 Let's get over the, Hey, the sovereignty conflicts with, I'm not saying that you're in charge of

00:31:20.120 everything. I'm saying you're in charge of yourself. And you know what, if I was sitting here

00:31:23.740 having a conversation with God right now and knock on wood, I don't want to have that conversation

00:31:28.820 today. Cause that means I'm dead. But if I'm sitting, having that conversation with God right now,

00:31:34.400 when I said, Hey, does a individual sovereignty conflict with your beliefs? And he would say,

00:31:39.660 that's actually in exact alignment because I sent you here to have a mortal body so that you could

00:31:47.120 decide for yourself. I gave you freedom and autonomy over your thoughts and your mind and your body.

00:31:53.700 I want you to make the right decisions, but that choice is yours. And then you have to live with the

00:31:58.700 consequences of the decisions that you make. And I would love, and I'm speaking from his

00:32:04.160 perspective. I would love for you to make the correct, the right, the righteous, the choices

00:32:09.220 that are going to serve you and other people. Well, but ultimately those are your decisions to

00:32:13.660 make. And, and when you make bad decisions, I have a great system in place called the atonement.

00:32:19.840 I'll help you out. There's a way to grow from one's mistakes, but still a decision you have to make.

00:32:26.380 Yep. Yeah. I think I wonder why this comes, I think this, I wonder if this comes from the fact that,

00:32:33.680 that some people, their religion, they, they were never converted to the religion that they,

00:32:39.160 they are part of, meaning I believe this because this is the way I was raised and they've never

00:32:44.700 took on that ownership of their religious beliefs as their own and took it as something that has been

00:32:53.260 given to them. And they've never stopped and paused and said, is this in alignment with what I want to

00:33:01.440 do? Or is this, and making a conscious decision versus just cultural, social pressures or, or

00:33:07.460 whatever. Well, at the risk of assuming, I would say to back up what you're saying, that it's a lack

00:33:14.260 of testimony. Yeah. Right. You're relying on, well, some, my mom and dad and social pressure or something

00:33:21.240 else. Yeah. Yeah. And so your, your testimony has not been tested. Uh, and, and, and you're not

00:33:29.700 entire, again, I'm assuming here, but, but I think it stems from a lack of powerful testimony.

00:33:35.600 You know, like I, I believe that there are some things that are good and some things that are bad

00:33:40.760 and some things that work well, some things that don't. And I try to move towards the things that

00:33:44.640 work well and the things that move away from the things that don't. And those are choices I'm making.

00:33:49.380 But when I make right decisions, I don't think, oh, well, gosh, I made that right decision and

00:33:53.400 something turned out well. So like my sovereignty must be limited. What the hell? Like, how do you come

00:33:58.360 to that conclusion? Yeah. It's very interesting. They're no, they're the answer is no,

00:34:02.900 they're not in conflict. They're very much in alignment. All right. Steven Giovanali, man.

00:34:10.520 I'm sorry, Steven in the iron council, even G, Steven G, Steven G. I feel sorry. Like iron

00:34:17.160 council guys, I should definitely be pronouncing your names correctly. So Steven G how long did it

00:34:23.040 take, uh, take for you to trust that everything would get done. Example. I schedule my days in a week,

00:34:29.700 but find myself thinking I should be doing task X as much as possible instead of reading 10 pages or

00:34:35.560 working out. Thanks for all you do. I'm not having a hard time following this, this question. Maybe

00:34:41.120 you, maybe a little bit, but I think I kind of get the gist of it. Well, my answer is I've never,

00:34:46.340 I've, I'm not there yet. Like you say, how long did it take for you to believe everything was going

00:34:51.060 to get done? I actually, I'm not there. I don't, I don't know that everything will get done.

00:34:54.640 Um, is this trusting the plan? Is that what he's kind of saying? Yeah. I think he's saying, I think

00:34:59.860 if I, if I were to interpret this question, what I would say is, you know, if I'm going to be doing

00:35:04.220 the plan, is it going to work out and are things going to get accomplished to the degree that I

00:35:07.500 want them to? Um, that's how I interpret that. The answer is, I don't know. I really don't know

00:35:15.240 when I, when I, let's say, let's say an event and I'll give you an example from our history of,

00:35:21.180 of order of man. When I launched our first event, uh, I, I, I set it up. I called a,

00:35:28.960 a lodge in Southern Utah that I want to have up in the mountain. And I put a, put a bunch of money

00:35:36.860 on this, this lodge to secure the reservation for the dates that I had planned. And then once I had

00:35:41.620 it reserved, then I went into my Facebook group and the podcast and I tried to get people to sign

00:35:45.780 up for it. Guess how many people signed up? You know, the story. Yeah. Not a single person in the

00:35:50.100 Facebook group at that time. I think it was about a thousand. If I had to make a educated guess.

00:35:55.900 Yeah. So I, I would have, I mean, you have a thousand members to pull from, I would have assumed,

00:36:01.100 you know what I mean? That you would have gotten. Right. I think that would be a safe assumption

00:36:05.820 that you'd have a number of people sign up. Somebody, somebody would have signed up. You would

00:36:09.980 think the iron council was going, I had people in the iron council. Like you would have think somebody

00:36:14.360 would have signed up. No, not a single soul signed up. Not one guys. And then I, I, I reached out to

00:36:23.520 the lodge and I said, Hey, you know, nobody signed up. He's like, Oh, that sucks. I said, yeah, that's

00:36:28.080 like, he's like, you're going to lose your deposit. Like, thank you. Set expectations. Yeah. And, and I

00:36:35.800 said, well, hold up, hold on, hold on. And this is where the salesman in me came out and I said,

00:36:39.320 yeah, what, what, what can you work with me? Like, what if we bumped it back three or four months

00:36:44.460 and you keep my deposit and you just apply it in three or four months to, to what we're going to

00:36:50.000 do? He's like, I will do that. He was very nice. He says, I will do that, but you'll be in, in peak

00:36:57.120 season. So it will be a little bit more expensive, but I'll take your deposit and I will apply it to

00:37:01.300 that because he didn't have anybody that wanted to book that weekend. So he was being very nice.

00:37:04.900 And I said, great. Thank that. I'll take it. Deal. And I went back to the drawing board

00:37:10.040 and I figured out my messaging and I released the second attempt at an event. And we had 20 guys,

00:37:16.740 I had 20 spots. We had 20 guys show up and we called our, we call ourselves still to this day,

00:37:21.980 the terrible 20. And I have a picture, a black and white picture from 2016, I believe it is

00:37:30.920 of us, the terrible 20 in my, in my barn on the wall. It's frames, black and white. It's really

00:37:37.920 cool to pay homage to the guys, the 20 guys who believe in these events before you really had

00:37:43.180 the right to believe in what it is we're doing. Yeah. But I didn't know it'd work out. And when we

00:37:48.840 did legacy this past weekend, I didn't know that it would work out. And when I reach out to

00:37:54.340 somebody I want to have on the podcast or a podcast I want to join, I don't, I don't actually know if

00:37:59.660 it's going to work out. Or when we come up with a new t-shirt or hat design, I really don't know

00:38:03.700 if it's going to work out. Now I have feedback where it's like, okay, well, we have a black hat

00:38:08.040 with a brown leather patch and they sell really well. So what if I did a gray with black and a,

00:38:13.840 you know, a lighter tan patch? Okay. Odds are it's probably going to sell because I have some

00:38:18.080 feedback to base it on, but I don't know until I put it out there. And one of the lessons I taught

00:38:23.380 these young men this weekend was that life is a process of experimentation, but too many men,

00:38:29.060 what they do is they play their lives for keeps. Meaning every decision is catastrophic.

00:38:35.900 Yeah. Like Ryan, what if I start this new business and it's, and then I get fired because

00:38:42.800 they find out and then I don't have enough clients. And then I go, I default on my mortgage.

00:38:48.280 And then my wife thinks I'm a loser and she divorces me. And then she speaks badly about me in front of

00:38:53.840 my kids. And then my kids hate me. Uh, and then my dog dies. And then like all this stuff, right?

00:38:58.840 It's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Hold up a second. All you're saying is you're going to start a

00:39:04.920 podcast. Like it's chill. Do you think they really believe that though? Or do you think that's,

00:39:11.160 that's, that's, they believe that they believe it. And I know they believe it. Cause I believe that

00:39:18.400 stuff still to this day, there's a term, it's a psychological term and it's a hundred percent

00:39:24.600 true. Kip. They're not just making excuses. Like, Oh, why do you do it? Sure. Maybe there's

00:39:31.660 some excuses, but there's a term it's called cognitive distortion and a hundred percent.

00:39:38.740 They believe it. And I know because I believe it in cognitive distortion. Please gentlemen,

00:39:45.100 look it up. Cognitive distortion is distorting reality and blowing things out of proportion

00:39:53.360 so far beyond proportion that any sane rational human being outside of the emotional baggage that

00:40:02.120 you have would never believe the conclusion you just drew. And we do it because biologically we're

00:40:09.620 hardwired to do it, to thrive, to stay alive. So we think about the worst possible scenario so that

00:40:16.700 we can keep ourselves alive as a species. Let me give you a very small example. It sounds stupid

00:40:21.780 when I say it, but it's, but it's real. So my wife and I, when we went through our separation and

00:40:29.680 there's been a thousand other scenarios, but this is a good one. My wife and I went through our

00:40:34.340 separation, uh, roughly 12 or so years ago. And it was a very hard time for me. It was like the,

00:40:42.820 it was not like, it was the darkest time of my life. It was very, very difficult for me.

00:40:49.160 I called her one day to, to talk about the kid or her, whatever. Like I just, I called her

00:40:55.540 and it went to her voicemail. And up until that point, her voicemail said, Hey, you've reached Ryan

00:41:02.640 and Tricia, or you've reached the Micklers, leave a message. We'll call you back. I call her phone.

00:41:06.960 It goes to her voicemail and it says she had changed it. It wasn't, Hey, you've reached the

00:41:13.920 Micklers. It wasn't, you've reached Ryan and Tricia. It was like, hello, this is Tricia Mickler.

00:41:19.760 Please leave me a message and I'll call you back. And my whole world like shattered in that silly,

00:41:25.840 stupid moment. She, she, she might as well have said, this is Tricia almost single.

00:41:33.040 Leave me a message. You're laughing, but that's true, man. I am laughing because I have relate.

00:41:39.520 I can relate. Anybody in this scenario has gone through this. So I'm freaking out. Like this is

00:41:46.280 over. She wants a divorce. She's moved along. All of these weird thoughts that go through my head.

00:41:53.600 And I vividly remember this conversation. And this is when it kind of like snapped for me.

00:41:59.300 I called her later that evening or the next day or two or whatever.

00:42:03.820 And we were talking and I remember asking her, I said, Hey, it sounds like you changed your voicemail.

00:42:08.560 You know, what's up? And she said this, I will never forget it as vivid as, as, as it was 12 years

00:42:15.660 ago. She said, Oh yeah, I changed it because we're running the, uh, rotary Easter car show.

00:42:20.380 And I wanted people to know that they were calling the right person, that it was me,

00:42:24.100 Tricia, and that they need to leave a message and, uh, they needed to get with me specifically.

00:42:28.280 So I didn't want it to have like the family voicemail system on there.

00:42:33.300 That's it. Yeah. That's all it was. And you know what? I actually, I was,

00:42:38.740 the cognitive distortions are so real. I'm going to sound like a freaking psycho.

00:42:42.660 The cognitive distortions are so real that like a week or two later, when I called her back,

00:42:50.460 I wanted to see if she had changed it back. I'm like, well, is that really real? Is it? Oh,

00:42:56.440 she just saying that she didn't really believe that she just making that as an excuse.

00:43:01.380 I called it expecting fully that it would say, this is Tricia Mickler. And guess what it said?

00:43:07.420 God, this is the Micklers leave a message. We'll get back with you. Yeah. Guys, we are mental.

00:43:17.720 I would say retarded, but apparently we're not supposed to say that term anymore in the

00:43:21.560 politically correct society. So I'll just say mental. We are mental. All of us, you, me,

00:43:29.700 Kip, every one of us are mental. We're mental basket cases. So when you asked me whether or not

00:43:36.680 we really believe that, oh hell yes, we believe it. Yes. And you need to be aware of what the

00:43:43.240 cognitive distortions are and what your mind is doing because it is playing tricks on you a hundred

00:43:48.940 percent. Yeah. Yeah. And that's usually tied to a, a preconceived notion or a story about yourself

00:43:57.900 and you're just running around looking for evidence, evidence of that is true. Yeah.

00:44:03.380 It's narcissistic because again, it's your evolutionary hardwiring teaching you to stay

00:44:09.880 alive. You're, you only care about yourself in that moment. Like for example, when you're

00:44:16.220 I talked with a gentleman years ago, he got attacked by a bear. His name is Todd or he got attacked by a

00:44:22.940 bear. Uh, and, and, uh, like literally attacked, like take, like decleted, like taken off the ground

00:44:31.420 by a bear and the bear was attacking. Yeah. Do you think of that moment he was saying, oh, you know,

00:44:36.540 I really forgot to take the trash out, uh, and really honor my wife by, uh, taking care of that

00:44:41.020 chore that I meant to do this morning. Or, you know, my client, oh damn, that client that I was

00:44:46.620 supposed to talk with. Uh, I, you know, I never called them back. Oh man, I'm such a dick.

00:44:52.880 No, of course not. He was worried about staying alive in that moment. Now he might say, oh, my

00:44:58.000 wife, look, I've talked with guys, Braxton McCoy, a good friend of mine. Uh, he went through a horrific

00:45:03.520 situation in Iraq when we were over there and he almost died. Uh, Kyle Carpenter, youngest living

00:45:08.820 medal of honor recipient almost died on the battlefield. And both of them said to me that one of the

00:45:13.300 thoughts that went through their mind is my mom, how is my mom going to handle this? So that's a

00:45:18.100 very selfless thought in a moment where you think you're going to die, but you're not remembering the

00:45:23.300 minutiae about your dated activity. You're remembering like, what's the biggest threat?

00:45:28.520 There's a bear on my back. I got to figure this out. And then I can worry about taking the trash out

00:45:35.020 or calling that client, but this is the deal right now. So it's very narcissistic. It's, it's very

00:45:40.360 focused on you, which, okay. In the right scenario is probably the right approach, but not always.

00:45:47.520 Yeah. Hmm. All right. Brad Rigney, when interviewing an accountant for your small business,

00:45:53.740 what are some of the key questions that you would ask? What other, who, what other clients do you work

00:45:59.840 with? How long have you been doing this? What do you enjoy about this work? That's one. A lot of

00:46:07.440 people wouldn't ask. What do you enjoy about this? Why do you like, I hate this. I hate this kind of

00:46:12.160 work. I dredge coming into the office, being an accountant sucks. Yeah. Don't hire that guy.

00:46:17.980 Here's another question I would ask. What strategies do business owners often overlook?

00:46:22.920 Like what, what little strategies or little nuances or tricks do you have that most business

00:46:27.240 owners overlook? Like, I want to know he's innovative. Um, how, how aggressive are you with

00:46:33.780 looking for deductions? That's totally like, are you super conservative question and you're following

00:46:40.760 everything or are you going to help me figure out where that line is and tiptoe on that? I want to

00:46:46.680 dance on that line. Like I want to waltz all over that line of what's, you know, not only moral and

00:46:51.680 ethical, but what's legal as well. Like I want to walk all over that line. Yeah. And that's why

00:46:59.020 those, those policies are in place to help small businesses be successful to grow. Right. So it's

00:47:05.160 not like, I want to be really clear to anyone listening. This isn't taking advantage of the

00:47:09.000 system or anything. This is actually what's intended for small businesses. No, it is taking

00:47:12.260 advantage of the system, but it's still the system. It's not illegal. It's still the system.

00:47:16.880 Yes. But let's be very clear. There's a difference between, uh, tax evasion and tax avoidance. I want

00:47:24.320 to avoid taxes, all the taxes without a doubt. Yeah. Yes. I don't want to evade. Well, I do want

00:47:29.820 to evade taxes, but I won't because there's a legal ramification there, but tax avoidance. Absolutely.

00:47:35.120 I'm going to avoid as many taxes as possible. So yeah, I I'm, I'm, I'm completely okay with taking

00:47:41.620 advantage of the system. I'm using the system to my advantage. There's no problem with that in my mind.

00:47:46.400 It's very moral in fact. Uh, so, and then the other thing I would ask is, do you have any

00:47:51.360 clients that you would be willing to let me speak with? And there might be some privacy issues there

00:47:57.400 or something, but there might be some agreements set up that he says, Oh yeah, you know, call these

00:48:00.700 three or four people. No problem. And you can get those, uh, references, but that that's a handful

00:48:05.560 of questions I would, I would look for and ask. And that might spur some additional questions you

00:48:09.360 should consider as well. For sure. All right, Brett Godfrey, how do you reconcile Romans 13

00:48:16.420 with choosing not to get a COVID vaccine? And he actually quotes Roman 13 here.

00:48:23.680 Yeah. Romans 13, let everyone be subject to the governing authorities for there is no authority

00:48:28.860 except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

00:48:33.340 Uh, second verse, I think consequently, however, rebels against the authority is rebelling against

00:48:39.360 what God has instituted and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

00:48:44.720 Yeah. Look, I I'm, I'm not a, uh, I'm not a biblical scholar. So, um, I'm just going to give

00:48:50.080 you my, my reference on this. Uh, number one, there's other verses within the Bible that probably

00:48:54.940 would contradict. And I can't tell you what they are. Cause I'm not a scholar that would contradict

00:48:59.240 that where we have a moral responsibility and obligation to, for example, defend ourselves

00:49:03.920 against, uh, unrighteous persecution or something along those lines. You you're probably way more

00:49:10.380 versed than I am with biblical stuff, but you can, you can look at even Bible verses that would

00:49:15.880 conflict with what that is. And we have to remember what the Bible is. The Bible is a collection of

00:49:19.940 books. It's not a book. It's a collection of books. And so there's going to be discrepancies

00:49:24.360 between the collection of books. Okay. Well, and, and with context, right? So exactly. Sure. Right.

00:49:30.560 And I think I remember the context of, of, of Romans as a whole. I, if I believe correctly, the,

00:49:38.240 the Christian church was split between Roman Christians and Jewish Christians,

00:49:42.420 and there was an attempt to kind of bring them together. So the, the con and this is the problem

00:49:48.840 with the Bible, right? Is we grab a, we grab a verse like this or whatever, without the context of

00:49:54.240 what governing authority is he talking about? It it's critical, right? Like we have to understand

00:50:01.780 the context. Sorry. I mean, another great, here's a, here's a conflicting in the Bible. And again,

00:50:06.480 I'm not a scholar, so I'm going to speak my ignorance here, but you guys are going to understand

00:50:09.600 what I'm saying. There was a decree across the land that all of the firstborn sons were to be

00:50:13.820 executed. And so what did the people do? They hid their son governing authority. Yeah. Right. So do you

00:50:20.240 subject, subject yourself to a governing authority? Well, according to Romans and the verse you just

00:50:23.980 read, if you just look at it in that isolated context, that's what you do. You actually give

00:50:28.560 up voluntarily your firstborn son. Okay. So we need to understand. I really liked that. You said

00:50:35.600 context, and this doesn't apply just to the Bible. This applies to everything. If I say, uh, on,

00:50:42.340 on Instagram, for example, you know, guys, we should really strive to be good and decent and respect

00:50:47.680 other people. I'll always have some asshole who comes back and says, well, not everybody should get

00:50:52.400 respect. Okay. Like clearly, clearly there are exceptions to everything that's being said. And

00:51:00.540 I'll say that I'll say, well, clear. There's an exception. Well, you said everybody. Okay. Well,

00:51:05.300 then you're a moron. If you are incapable of discerning a figure of speech and trying to literally

00:51:12.820 translate that and apply it to your life. And I'm not saying the gentleman asking this question is a

00:51:18.720 moron. Like, I think this is a thoughtful question, but we need to remember, like you said,

00:51:23.400 context, and then also consider that there's other Bible verses and passages and phrases and stories

00:51:29.460 that would conflict with what you just said, what Romans just said. So how do you reconcile those?

00:51:35.600 Ask God. That's what you do. You pray and you ask God. Now there's one other thing I want to say

00:51:41.180 with governing authorities. We have a system in place, a legal system in place to remove those

00:51:49.300 individuals who are not serving and representing us well. In fact, in the constitution, our founding

00:51:57.240 documents, it says we have a obligation, obligation to ignore immoral dominion over us. That's actually

00:52:09.500 part of, in our founding documents. It's, it's written, right? You can read it. We are, we are told to rebel

00:52:18.760 in our, that's law in our, it's law so much that there's a Supreme court. There's a Supreme law of the

00:52:28.420 land meant to interpret that constitution. What is, and isn't constitutional. We have a moral obligation to

00:52:37.880 reject immoral laws and orders and, and these types of things. It's in our founding documents. And also we have a

00:52:47.820 system that allows us to remove those people who need to be removed from office. And this doesn't matter what

00:52:54.480 side of the political out. Look, you guys all know I'm conservative. Everybody knows that. And the overwhelming

00:52:59.260 majority of our audience is conservative, but we have those who are liberal that listen and I'm glad to have them

00:53:04.200 listen as well. Um, so let's take Trump. Like you, every, every one of us has a, a thought about Trump

00:53:13.420 being impeached, but the fact of the matter is, is that was followed. The system was followed, right?

00:53:22.100 Yeah. So there's systems and there's checks and there's balances built into the equation that allow us

00:53:27.280 to override the, the mandates and the rules and the laws and change the law. Like there's systems in

00:53:38.380 place. And so we need to exercise those systems. That's the point I'm making is the systems are

00:53:42.580 already there. And also I can find other Bible verses passages of stories that would conflict

00:53:47.260 with. I believe he said Romans 13. Yeah. And I think to your point, maybe what you're getting at is

00:53:53.220 be an active participant in said systems, right. And who you vote for. And you know, like actually

00:54:00.060 there's, there are systems in place that give us the ability to change leadership and we should be

00:54:07.080 active participants in those. And if you're not going to do that, don't vote. That's my other,

00:54:11.780 I wouldn't. And don't complain either then. Yeah. No, I actually, I don't agree with that.

00:54:17.400 Oh really? I think, yeah, I do. I think we all have a right to point out injustice. And not only

00:54:23.180 right, right. I think is the baseline, but we have a responsibility to point. People like to say

00:54:27.860 this on Instagram too. I'll, I'll say something. I'll, I'll point out something I don't like. And

00:54:31.600 they'll say, well, you know, just don't complain about it. What are you, what are you talking about?

00:54:35.300 Like, if I see something wrong, I actually should point that out now to what you're saying is okay.

00:54:40.320 And then work towards a solution. I know that's what you're saying. Yeah. Take some action. Yeah.

00:54:44.320 But I don't have any problem with, I I've actually never once said, Hey, if you don't like this

00:54:49.260 country, then leave. I don't think I've ever said that once. Cause I think

00:54:53.040 it's, it's a very rudimentary way of looking at it. I get the sentiment. I understand what you're

00:54:59.060 saying. I just don't like that phrase. Cause I think the better phrase is if you don't like the

00:55:03.820 system, let's all work together to figure out a better system, but yeah, let's change it.

00:55:09.080 Yeah. But there's, there's things in place. I guess the point I'm making is like, yeah, I think all of

00:55:15.880 us should be pointing out things that we don't like. And there's things that I don't like that I'm not

00:55:19.980 willing to work on solutions towards because I'm busy with other things that I'm working on

00:55:23.300 solutions towards, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't point it out or bring it up. I think

00:55:28.360 we should, that's okay. But I think if you're not going to be, if you're not willing to

00:55:34.740 study and research and get some even base knowledge, then don't vote. Cause that's just

00:55:42.260 acting in ignorance. And that's ridiculous. All right. Thomas Campbell, what's the difference

00:55:51.460 between doing your best or going above and beyond is above and beyond your best or is the,

00:55:58.240 or is that two separate ideas altogether? I mean, I think you might get into a little bit

00:56:04.220 of semantics here, but you can't do your best and do the bare minimum. Right. Kip, if I came to you

00:56:10.980 and I said, Hey, Kip, I want you to do 10 pushups. Is that you're doing 10 pushups your best?

00:56:16.360 You could probably do at least 11. I would think. Yeah. At least maybe 11 and a half.

00:56:21.260 Right. Once I got to my knees, I could throw in another five, maybe also, by the way, there is no

00:56:26.040 half in this. Like there's either you did it or you didn't, there's no half. So I did half a pushup.

00:56:31.920 No, you either did a pushup or you didn't like that's the objective metric. Right.

00:56:36.520 Um, so your best is, I would think more synonymous with above and beyond. Now there's some situations

00:56:47.320 where I don't think you need to do your best. College is a great example. Like if I'm going

00:56:52.720 to college, I'm going to try to get a, I don't, I personally went to half a semester of college.

00:56:58.580 I lost my academic scholarship and realized very quickly that was not for me. And I think that's

00:57:04.080 probably the case for 80% of the population. Yeah. But if I was going to college, I would pass

00:57:09.840 all my, all my grades and all my classes to the bare minimum. Cause why beat your head against the

00:57:15.260 wall? If you don't need to, to the bare minimum, or I would, or I would graduate way faster. Like

00:57:21.860 I would get C's and B's and whatnot on double time and do it in half the time. And, and I would be okay

00:57:29.680 with that. And so there's situations where doing what is required is okay. I don't always need to

00:57:37.100 do everything exactly the best way I should do it, but there's other things that I think we should

00:57:42.620 go above and beyond. If I'm going to run an event for fathers and sons, like there's things I could

00:57:46.280 do that would be bare minimum and everybody would be satisfied. And that would be, but that's not my

00:57:51.760 goal. Like my goal is to exceed and go above and beyond. And so that's why I do this after action

00:57:56.380 review. And I have copious notes right here. And I'm on my phone about what I need to order and how

00:58:00.900 I need to improve and how we need to work the timeline and all this kind of stuff. So really,

00:58:04.940 I think what you need to do is discern where you need to show up fully and where you need to get a

00:58:09.280 passing grade. Yeah. It's really intentionality around what you're doing and totally priority.

00:58:14.060 Right. And, and, and contrary to the popular belief about the way you do one thing is the way you do

00:58:19.140 everything. No, sometimes, you know, I just need to get through that so I can move on to it.

00:58:23.500 Yeah. Totally. Strategy. Yeah. I mean, talking about college, like I, I, I was working full-time

00:58:29.400 and going to school full-time and I would intentionally go, okay, I'm going to this class.

00:58:34.440 I have a good grade in this class. I'm going to sleep. And I would sit in the back of the class

00:58:39.240 and get my hour resting. So that way I could push through because, and I was consciously like,

00:58:45.840 I am going to do this because I need a rest and I need to sleep and I need to get a nap in because

00:58:52.160 I'm losing my mind, you know, and I was intentional that. And I was okay with that.

00:58:55.820 Or the alternative is you were working as well. And so you show up to work. I was, I was delivering

00:59:01.000 pizzas in college. And so, you know, I show up to work, um, and I used it as an opportunity to be

00:59:07.100 social. I met people when I was delivering pizzas. I met guys and gals there that I worked with. And so

00:59:12.600 I used it as a social element. And if my boss called me on Saturday and said, can you work? Yeah,

00:59:17.820 I could work. Sure. But the answer was no. Yeah. Because I always knew I'm delivering pizzas.

00:59:25.260 Like I ain't doing brain surgery. This is going to push my career. Yeah. This is how I got to push

00:59:29.020 my career forward. Yeah. So I'm going to show up. I'm going to do what's asked of me. I'm going to

00:59:33.160 hit the schedule. I'm going to get there on time. I'm going to leave on time. I'm going to work hard,

00:59:36.300 do my dishes and whatnot and deliver pizzas to the best of my, like, I'm going to do what I'm supposed

00:59:40.420 to be doing. But no, I'm not going above and beyond. Why would I do that? Cause I want to go down to the

00:59:44.500 lake and I want to go skimboarding or I want to go to the beach or I want to go to Lake Havasu or like

00:59:48.180 any of these other things that I wanted to do in college. And so I deliberately made those

00:59:52.780 decisions and those decisions are acceptable in some cases. Yeah. All right. Mark Wood,

00:59:58.500 how do you keep moving on when the high after legacy wears off or the main event or any event when you are

01:00:04.880 around high caliber men and you're constantly getting pumped up from the conversations, activities,

01:00:10.080 and the energy around you? Yeah. So this is where I differ from a lot of the people who are like,

01:00:15.320 oh, motivation sucks. And discipline is everything. And like that kind of stuff.

01:00:20.580 I actually think there's a very powerful place for motivation. I think, I think if you're using it

01:00:27.080 as a tactic and strategy to move yourself or move the needle, then why wouldn't you use that? But some

01:00:32.660 guys are like, motivation is name. Discipline is everything. And like, well, why wouldn't you use

01:00:39.620 motivate? Like, so you don't go to any seminars. You don't learn from other people. You don't read

01:00:44.980 a book to get all hopped up. You don't get, you don't get emotional when you watch a movie,

01:00:48.520 like you watch Braveheart and you don't like feel like you want to be more of a badass.

01:00:52.460 Okay. Well, why'd you watch that then? Right? Like, so there is a time and a place for motivation.

01:00:57.120 So Mark, what I would say, and I appreciated having you guys out here is what I would suggest to you

01:01:02.280 is that you look at ways to recreate what we did. Yeah. So what did we do? Well,

01:01:07.400 we got around other men. Surely there's men in your area. You have men on your battle team within

01:01:11.900 the iron council. What can you guys do to get together? Come back out next year. That's another

01:01:16.560 thing is sometimes we just need a little bit more motivation. Maybe it's an annual motivation.

01:01:20.320 There's events that I go to every single year and I walk away inspired and motivated and compelled and

01:01:26.200 uplifted and edified. And that's all good. And then I take those practices and then I incorporate the

01:01:31.320 discipline or the structures of the systems of the processes that are going to actually move the needle.

01:01:35.260 So you need both. You need the discipline, which is the process and systems. And then you need the

01:01:39.220 motivation, the inspiration, and both are valuable. Like one, isn't more valuable than that. Both are

01:01:45.120 valuable. When motivation wears off, discipline is going to fall into line. When discipline becomes

01:01:50.440 monotonous and boring and mundane, you feel like quitting motivation and inspiration comes in.

01:01:54.720 So let's use both of them, the logic and the emotion, like both are fine. So, um, yeah,

01:01:59.960 what I would say is look for ways to recreate what we did through activities, through exercises,

01:02:03.940 and then through other men, and then building the systems and processes based on what we talked

01:02:07.720 about that will allow you to move into the discipline component until we're able to meet

01:02:11.980 again next year or in two weeks in Mark's case, because he coming back out for the main event.

01:02:17.900 Copy. All right. Mike Hanson, a very similar question from before, but I like a portion of,

01:02:23.140 of Mike's, um, question here. And I think it'd be valuable. So he says, Ryan,

01:02:27.760 I would like to know how you approach sovereignty and submission at God's will. We've kind of already

01:02:32.000 addressed that, but this, I, this, I think is valuable. What do you practice in order to know

01:02:37.380 you are in his will for your life with plans, goals, and your vision?

01:02:42.380 That is more of an intuitive thing for me. Uh, it's not that I, I'm very deliberate and intentional,

01:02:48.860 but I pray to God and I ask for his guidance and direction. And I thank him for my blessings.

01:02:56.680 I wish I had like a more refined answer, but I pray daily at least twice a day, often more times

01:03:05.380 than that, just in the spur of the moment. If I'm about to give a presentation, for example,

01:03:10.220 I might just do a quick prayer that, and the prayer would probably go something like this.

01:03:14.880 Uh, God, please, please use me as an instrument for your message. Uh, soften the hearts and the minds,

01:03:23.720 the people who will listen to what I have to say and let the words be an accurate depiction of,

01:03:31.420 and representation of what you'd want me to share and allow it to impact them in a meaningful and

01:03:37.160 significant way. Amen. Yeah. You know, would that take 20 seconds or it might be an evening prayer

01:03:45.060 where, and, and I wouldn't even like get on my knees and like a formal, and that last one,

01:03:49.900 and I would, it's just like in the moment I'd close my eyes 20 seconds before I'm about to go

01:03:54.060 on stage and that's my prayer. And then I go out and do my thing. And, and that, that, that leaves me

01:04:00.060 open to promptings and maybe even changing my speech. Maybe I had something listed out, but I

01:04:06.180 actually prayed to use the right words. And so maybe the word that I wrote, I wrote down wasn't the

01:04:10.740 right word or the story wasn't the right story. And now I'm open to inspiration, divine inspiration

01:04:16.220 that will allow me to tweak what needs to be tweaked. And it'll be way more impactful. I found

01:04:19.860 that to be true. Or it might be something that's structured like an evening prayer where, where I

01:04:25.540 will, I will literally get on my knees, fold my arms, bow my head, close my eyes. Sometimes we'll do

01:04:32.320 this as a family at dinner, for example, or before I'm going to bed and I'll honor and recognize God.

01:04:41.180 I'll, I'll thank him for the blessings. I'll ask for anything that I may need help and support and

01:04:48.740 guidance with. Another thing I do when it comes to asking for help is I always approach my prayer,

01:04:54.200 not with only an ask, but here's what I think I should do. You know, I, I think for example,

01:05:00.220 I should do this father son event, or I think in this dilemma I'm dealing with, here's the conclusion

01:05:05.280 I've come to. I think this is right. Will you help me understand if that is the case or not?

01:05:10.540 I don't, I very rarely do I say, I need this thing from you. It's, it's like, I try to do my part,

01:05:17.040 which is like, I've researched, I've listened, I've asked other people, I have resources available.

01:05:23.940 And here's the conclusion I've come to, is this right? Uh, and then I ask for blessings for other

01:05:31.380 people who are important. You Kipper on that, the people who are listening to this podcast during that

01:05:35.160 list, my children, my family, my friends, people I interact with on a daily basis, strangers,

01:05:39.340 uh, missionaries, uh, are, are, are warriors who serve this nation. Like we, we pray for those

01:05:45.820 people. So that, that might be something more structured. And then I just listen. And I ask

01:05:50.780 myself, like, am I doing good? Not good as in like, I need your validation, but am I, am I doing what

01:05:56.560 you want me to do? Am I, am I living the kind of life? Is this right? You know, I might do something

01:06:02.340 in the moment. I'm like, I don't know about this. Is this right? And I might get a no. Okay. Well,

01:06:06.740 I got a pivot in that, or I get a, just a, an affirmation of it. You're doing good. Just keep

01:06:11.740 you're okay. Just keep going. So it's very intuitive for me, but it's also something that I've built into

01:06:18.580 my daily plan and practices so that I can have that level of intuition, uh, and, and reflection

01:06:25.500 and making sure that I'm on that path. Now, a lot of guys will say, and I think this might

01:06:31.480 question might allude to this a little bit. We'll say, well, like, how do I know I'm listening to

01:06:35.020 God and not listening to myself? And I think that has to do with motives. I think that's

01:06:41.080 probably the greatest differentiating factor. If you're listening to God, your motive is to serve

01:06:46.340 others. If you're listening to yourself, your motive is to serve yourself. Yeah. Right. Like

01:06:52.400 if I'm like, well, I could do this thing and I can make a bunch of money, so I'm going to do it.

01:06:56.020 Oh, God told me to do it. Yeah. Or I'm going to look good or I'm going to aspire to the honors

01:07:01.000 of men. If I do this, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, have power, you know,

01:07:06.240 I think God would say, Hey, if you do this, you're going to reach a lot more people and you're going

01:07:12.500 to impact their lives. Um, well, let me give you an example here. Here's a, here's a very

01:07:18.060 interesting example. I thought about this morning, my wife and I were talking and I said, you know,

01:07:21.160 I think I'm going to raise the price of the legacy of that. And she said, Oh, why are you going to do

01:07:25.680 that? And I said, well, you know, first we're going to make more money. And she's like, Oh, is it about

01:07:29.820 money? I said, no, it's not about money. But if I raise the price, I can bring three or four

01:07:35.260 powerful, powerful, uh, experts in these specific areas that might enhance the, uh, the experience.

01:07:44.220 And she's like, Oh, that's a good idea. You should raise the price. See the difference. It's subtle.

01:07:47.680 Yeah. Right. Like if I rate, cause the, the answer is still the same, raise the price. That's,

01:07:52.300 that's the interesting thing. The answer, whether I'm listening, whether the motive is to serve others

01:07:57.120 or to serve myself, the answer is the same, raise the price. If I raise the price, I can make more,

01:08:02.300 I can put more money in my pocket, which is not bad, by the way. Some, that's not a bad thing.

01:08:07.180 Yeah. But if it's, Hey, if I raise the price, then I can do these things and people will have a

01:08:11.820 better experience. That's a different motive. That's a more, in my mind, a more pure motive.

01:08:16.720 And one that I think people will pick up on and ultimately serve them better. So what is your

01:08:21.780 motive? And that's how I think you're going to know whether or not you're listening to yourself

01:08:25.480 or you're listening to higher power. I like that. I do think Ryan confirm. I mean,

01:08:33.000 obviously I don't want to speak for you, but I mean, there's some base, there's some baselines

01:08:37.000 that I think that, that you have, that that's everything you said is built upon. And it's the

01:08:43.000 idea that, that, that, you know, that God's plan is for you to become the best version of yourself

01:08:49.660 to serve people, to leave a lasting impact in the world. And that your role within a family is like

01:08:56.460 one of the highest priorities. And, and, and a lot, and is that one, I don't want to speak with

01:09:03.600 you. One, is that accurate? And then two, that's kind of a baseline that you then operate upon as

01:09:08.680 well, right? Like there's some kind of baseline understanding I think that you have of, of

01:09:13.300 quote unquote, God's plan that are, are the top priority items. The, um, my, I've, I thought a

01:09:20.700 lot about this. I spend time thinking about this. My sole purpose in life is to serve. I mean, period.

01:09:27.100 That's the, that's the, that is the word that describes what I want my life to be. You know,

01:09:32.820 you take our father or whatever, whatever strangers, like it doesn't matter to serve.

01:09:39.160 So if you take our motto, I used to think our motto, that's clever, right? That's tricky.

01:09:42.980 It's crafty. It's alliteration. I start with three P's. It's good, but, and it is good.

01:09:50.320 Like it's marketing. I get marketing. I like marketing. And you know what, if I can mark

01:09:54.020 here, here's an interesting thing. This is going to be very controversial. Uh, when I had Grant

01:09:59.180 Cardone on the podcast years ago, we got talking about similar kind of subjects and he said something

01:10:06.660 and I, when he said it, I cringed. I was like, Oh bro, I don't say that. And he said in the classic

01:10:12.700 Grant Cardone way, he said, you know, if Jesus Christ was on the planet right now, he would have

01:10:16.760 a fleet of Gulfstream jets. And I was like, Oh, like, why, why do you have to say that? And then

01:10:25.780 I got thinking about it more. And I was like, no, actually that's probably true. Like he would be,

01:10:30.700 he would have an Instagram. Jesus Christ would have an Instagram account.

01:10:33.680 Wouldn't he?

01:10:39.200 It, if it's a tool to influence and help serve, I don't see why you want to use it.

01:10:43.600 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Christ would have an Instagram account. He would have a fleet of

01:10:49.680 Gulfstream jets. He would be traveling from continent to continent. He would be putting

01:10:54.520 on seminars and events. He would be doing that. That's like, sounds so blasphemous to say,

01:10:59.540 but that's what, and that's what he did with the technology he had available. He walked

01:11:03.940 from town to town to do the same thing, but with the technology he had 2000 years ago,

01:11:07.880 that was what he was using. It sounds so blasphemous, but it's true. It's a hundred percent true.

01:11:12.640 It's a hundred percent accurate. And so my main objective is to serve. And so I'm going to use

01:11:20.060 technology. I'm going to use marketing. Uh, I'm going to use money. I'm going to make myself more

01:11:27.080 capable. I'm going to develop influence. And so some of this means I have to take care of myself

01:11:32.280 so that I can be more influential so that I can serve more people. But ultimately that is my,

01:11:38.340 that is the one word that describes that this sums up the way I want to live my life

01:11:44.000 is just to serve people. That's it. So yes, the answer to your question is yes. I,

01:11:50.560 that's right. I just want to serve people. I want to help. That's all I want to do.

01:11:54.480 Love it. Do you have a way to finish? Do you have something that you would, uh,

01:11:58.900 have you thought about it like that? Yeah. I mean, I, I think it's, I think that, that

01:12:04.820 to have a life of no regret and to feel like I can go to my creator and feel like I didn't waste

01:12:15.460 that gift that was granted to me. It would mean that, did I make a difference, which is another way

01:12:21.440 of saying the same thing as serve, right? Did I make a difference in the time that was given to

01:12:26.080 me? You know, and, and I have to remember, and we've talked about this in the past, but this is

01:12:32.440 something that I have to add to that is my ability to make a difference is sometimes to be joyful

01:12:41.360 because my default behavior is intense, right? Like I I'm doing a presentation later today for all our

01:12:50.740 employees around ownership. It's going to be intense because I'm always like ownership, you

01:12:57.660 know, like, but guess what? Sometimes that's not fun. And sometimes it needs to be joyful. And

01:13:05.120 sometimes you need to enjoy life along the way. And I have to remind myself that that's also a way to

01:13:10.880 serve on, in regards to how I show up and being impactful, not just through message, but also

01:13:17.200 through pleasantness. You know, I have people in my life that I love being around. Why do I love

01:13:23.400 being around them? Cause they're pleasant to be around. Not because they dropped some insane

01:13:27.660 knowledge. They're just fun people to be around, you know, and they lift you up, you know, and I

01:13:33.480 have to remember that part of it. I love it. All right. It's my wife says, I do told me I had to do

01:13:40.360 that. I don't want to, I don't want to be more pleasant to be around. Oh, that's funny. All

01:13:48.600 right, brother. All right, cool. We'll bring us home. I think we got through some great questions

01:13:51.520 today. Yeah. I mean, we filled our questions today from the, from the gentlemen of the iron

01:13:56.240 council to join us there. Please go to order of man.com slash iron council to learn more.

01:14:01.440 And of course you can join us on Facebook at facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

01:14:07.100 Again, events are full. Stay tuned for other communications around future events. And of

01:14:12.540 course to get connected and support with us. You can do that through YouTube, the podcast,

01:14:18.440 following Mr. Mickler on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. And of course supporting the

01:14:23.700 movement by your swag. And you get that swag at store.orderofman.com. Excellent. All right,

01:14:30.500 guys, you got your marching orders. We're going to have dates for you here in the next week or

01:14:33.920 two on the upcoming events in 2022. So stay tuned for that. And until then, go out there,

01:14:39.260 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:14:43.900 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to

01:14:48.400 be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 29, 2021

What is Freedom, The Finite Game vs the Infinite Game, and Defining Your Legacy ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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