Order of Man - What it Means to be a Man, Finding What Drives You, and Getting Out of a Funk

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.020 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.500 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.240 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.820 you can call yourself a man. Again, we failed to hit record before we started talking about

00:00:27.660 interesting things. It's your fault. I blame it on you, actually. You always talk about these

00:00:31.700 interesting things before we even get into the podcast, and now we're talking about religion.

00:00:35.040 I just want to have a conversation with you. I don't want to do this podcast thing. I just want

00:00:39.100 to talk to Ryan. We can have a conversation, but just let's record it. It's literally no different.

00:00:43.820 You just got to press one button on the dang computer. Yeah, we were talking about religion

00:00:49.280 and how many people get offended. You know what's funny is the other day I made a post.

00:00:53.260 This was a couple of weeks ago. I made a post. I think I told you this about, what was it?

00:00:57.400 Oh, Greek mythology. I'm reading a book on Greek mythology because it's interesting. It's

00:01:01.400 fascinating. Also, there's truth everywhere. I made this post about the gods being bored and

00:01:08.540 how we've become akin to the gods and that we don't have any real issues to deal with. We've

00:01:14.020 created this amazing environment for ourselves. We've become complacent and bored and lazy and

00:01:20.920 frankly, pathetic. In Greek mythology, the gods essentially created

00:01:25.700 humankind, animals and humans to entertain themselves. That's what we've done. We prop up

00:01:35.720 these people. We prop up fakeness with certain things that we believe and certain things that

00:01:41.860 we listen to because we want to be entertained. Breads and circuses. We've all heard that.

00:01:46.280 Yeah. So anyways, I made this post about it and this guy's like, aren't you Christian?

00:01:52.400 That's all he wrote. It's like, yeah, but I'm not sure that disqualifies me from reading about

00:01:59.840 Greek mythology. But it's interesting. We get into these dogmas and we think that if you're a

00:02:05.000 Christian or you're Jewish or you're Hindu or you're Buddhist or you're Islam or whatever,

00:02:11.300 that that's the only thing, anything else outside of that is wrong. It's like, um, you know, like

00:02:16.380 expand your mind a little bit. And by the way, just because you're

00:02:20.580 thinking about another religion or exploring it or reading about something doesn't mean to your

00:02:28.180 point that you said, I think right before we hit record that it's a threat to what you currently

00:02:32.900 believe, but people believe it is, man. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, and it can help you,

00:02:37.360 you know, like, uh, point of knowledge, the Torah references, Moses, like huge amounts of

00:02:44.380 references to Moses. It's like, you know, if you're a Christian, you believe Moses was a prophet,

00:02:49.380 like that could be beneficial. You know what I mean? To understand another culture's perspective

00:02:54.220 on that same man, you know, it's even if you're not religious, read the Bible. It's true. Like,

00:03:00.760 it's true. Yes. In a religious context, of course it has, it makes more sense. The pieces fit

00:03:05.880 together in a spiritual and religious context, but just go read Proverbs. Are you telling me there

00:03:11.340 isn't a ton of information that you can get out of there that would help you improve your life

00:03:15.740 outside of the spiritual realm of things? Come on. Totally. Well, you tell me, so you, you go

00:03:20.780 digging in your backyard and you find some old scribes, like papers written from people from,

00:03:29.220 you know, a thousand years ago and it got translated. You wouldn't read it.

00:03:34.360 Right. You'd read it in a second. You'd be like, this is awesome. This is awesome. This is so,

00:03:38.660 yeah, you would read it and, and you would take chunks of it and you would say, oh, this is valuable

00:03:43.340 and other things you'd be like, that's weird. And you'd move on. You wouldn't be so threatened by it.

00:03:47.680 Right. Yeah. I think it's just, I think it's just a product of the environment that we live in,

00:03:53.300 where everybody believes that the world and universe revolves around them and everything they're

00:03:57.360 sharing is the most important and their perspective is the only one and everything else is wrong.

00:04:02.320 And if it offends me in the slightest little way possible that I have a right not to feel offended.

00:04:12.060 So sad, man. Kip, what am I noticing down here on the bottom of your chin, by the way? I meant to

00:04:18.180 ask about that. I need to get, uh, what's this stuff called the just for men. So it hides the white.

00:04:24.420 It's just, well, you're growing it out and it's just getting a little white down there. I didn't

00:04:27.940 realize you had as much white in there, Kip. I turned 40 in, uh, less than a month. That's

00:04:35.160 freaking wild. 40 years old. My, uh, my son today, what did he say? We were, we were processing orders

00:04:41.620 in your oldest dirt. Oh, he was worse than that. It was way worse than that. And he's like,

00:04:48.240 he was talking about, about my beard. Cause there's a little gray here, you know,

00:04:51.220 and he was talking about the same thing. And he's like, does that make you sad? And I'm like,

00:04:55.100 does what make me sad? And, and he's like, well, that you have gray hair. I'm like, well,

00:05:00.300 why would that make me sad? Like, I'm not sad about it. He's like, well, it's, I mean, you just,

00:05:05.820 maybe you're starting to realize how little time you have left. I was like, I was like, well,

00:05:11.900 I mean, I think I've got, you know, another 30 or 40 years on this spinning rock. I mean,

00:05:16.920 I could be wrong, but I think I do. And I said, and he's like, well, yeah, no, I mean,

00:05:21.380 like, it's just getting closer. That's all I mean. And I was like, well, you're getting closer too.

00:05:25.760 We're all getting closer, man. Yeah. Or you just got a lot closer now with that comment.

00:05:31.060 That's right. That's right. So anyways, here we are. The old, the old guys, it's just wisdom.

00:05:38.340 It's all it is. Just a little wisdom. All right, man. Well, let's get into some questions today.

00:05:42.260 Uh, I think we've got some leftover from Instagram, by the way, guys, um, make sure you're connected

00:05:46.480 with me on Instagram. That's where I'm most active. And I spend most of my social media time

00:05:50.780 is on Instagram. Uh, I, I respond to probably 70 to 80% of the messages I received the other 20 to 30%

00:05:59.580 are either assholes or spam. So I don't respond to those. Uh, but if you're not one of those two

00:06:04.560 things, odds are good that I'll probably respond to you, even if it's a fist bump or something like

00:06:08.360 that. Uh, and then, uh, the posts that I make over there, you know, are, are designed to spark

00:06:13.320 dialogue and discussion and engagement with you as well. So that's all at Ryan Mickler. Anyways,

00:06:17.780 let's get to the questions today. Yeah. And you can submit your questions on Instagram too. So

00:06:22.200 that's another reason to join us. Stay tuned is as well as Twitter. So that same exact candle on,

00:06:26.860 on Mr. Mickler's Twitter account at Ryan. I don't know. Just stay on Twitter. Just do it on

00:06:31.560 Twitter. It's a tool. It's a tool. It's a crazy world. All right. All right.

00:06:37.180 Isan, uh, Isanti defined failure, Mr. Mickler defined failure. Uh, failure is simply just not

00:06:46.020 accomplishing what you set out to accomplish. It's really strange to me. We have this weird

00:06:50.360 aversion to the term and idea of failure. We don't want to talk about it. We don't want to

00:06:55.560 discuss it. We want to call it something else because we make it bad. Right. And, and, and so we're

00:07:00.620 like, well, there is no failure. There's only learning. You're either, you're either winning or learning

00:07:05.240 like things like that. No, you, in some instances you fail, you can learn, but you did fail.

00:07:11.580 So I don't think we need to sugarcoat it. I don't think we need to wrap it up in this nice

00:07:16.440 little present with a little bow on it. Just, it just means you failed. It doesn't mean that

00:07:19.680 it's indefinite. It doesn't mean that you're a loser. Uh, it, it means you lost. It doesn't mean

00:07:26.060 you're a loser. So let's just call it for what it is. And let's just face reality that I was

00:07:31.460 inadequate. You know, if my business failed, that means you were inadequate. Either it was a bad

00:07:38.760 idea. You didn't have the right suppliers. Your price was point was wrong. Your marketing sucked.

00:07:43.040 Like there could be a myriad of reasons for it. But if you pretend that, Oh, well, I was just learning.

00:07:47.400 I was just, I was just learning. This is an excuse. It's just a justification. Just say, you know,

00:07:52.960 yeah, that business venture failed. Uh, and I spent a lot of time thinking about why that was.

00:07:57.580 And here's the three main reasons. I believe that was the case. And so my next business venture is

00:08:02.240 this, and here was how we shored up those three areas. If you lie to yourself, you're not going to

00:08:07.640 do anything to fix it because you're actually making it. Okay. Oh, failure is just part of life. It's

00:08:12.860 okay. It is part of life, but it's not okay. I don't want to shit sting, right? It should sting. It

00:08:18.580 should hurt. Yeah. If it doesn't hurt and you're trying to bubble wrap it in this little bow and package

00:08:22.960 that makes you feel better about how crappy you were at that thing, what are the odds that you're

00:08:28.060 actually going to improve or learn your lessons? So let's just call it what it is. The business

00:08:32.900 failed. My relationship failed. My diet failed. Okay, cool. Back on the horse, figure out what you

00:08:39.340 need to do and fix it. But let's not, let's not manipulate words and change the meaning of things.

00:08:44.960 And I actually learned a valuable lesson from Jack Donovan, who we were talking about earlier,

00:08:51.200 because he's got a new book out and him and I are going to record a podcast. And I made a post on

00:08:55.620 Instagram. This was years ago. And I said something like humility is strength. And he responded back

00:09:01.800 either in the comments or direct messages because we're friends. And he said, no, humility is just

00:09:07.940 humility. It's not strength. It's just humility is humility. It just means you're humble,

00:09:12.820 but it doesn't, it doesn't equate strong. It could, it could lead to you doing something that

00:09:18.900 will make you stronger. And for some reason, just in that little exchange, a little light bulb went

00:09:24.600 off for me is how often we massage and manipulate words to feel better about things. Humility is

00:09:30.880 humility. It just means you're humble. And if you use it correctly, it can lead to the actions that

00:09:35.580 will make you stronger, but it isn't strength in and of itself. Failure isn't winning. It's, it isn't

00:09:42.560 learning. It just means you didn't do what you set out to accomplish. So address it, deal with it,

00:09:48.000 deal in reality, and then fix it and get better moving forward. Yeah. I like, I like to think that

00:09:53.160 most of those things create possibilities, whether we take advantage of them or not, that's a whole

00:09:57.640 different story. Yeah. So if I'm humble, that creates me a possibility to actually learn and

00:10:02.700 grow. Failure creates a possibility for me to learn, right? Yeah. Possibilities, opportunities,

00:10:08.920 potential. Opportunities and possibilities. Yeah. Right. That's all it is. Nothing more.

00:10:13.480 Exactly. Yeah. I really like that. That's nice. I, um, well, thank you. Yeah. I thought it was nice

00:10:20.240 myself. I had a thought that crossed my mind. I was going to follow up with the niceness, but you know

00:10:27.460 what? Let's just leave it there. That was great. Thank you. Perfect. I appreciate you. Your check is on

00:10:32.740 the way. All right. Bobby 2332, what drives you every day? And, and there's a couple related

00:10:40.720 questions to this around when we get into funks and stuff, but so don't cover the funk side of this,

00:10:47.100 right? Cause I want to answer this other question. How do we get out of funks, but what drives you

00:10:51.740 from a general perspective? Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a lot in any given moment, right? But

00:10:56.800 it could be a sense of duty, a sense of obligation. It could be my, for my family, it could be to uphold

00:11:01.720 personal, uh, personal, uh, commitments and obligations that I've made. There's a lot of things

00:11:06.040 that drive me, but like, what is the ultimate driving vision of, of, for myself? I'm, I'm always

00:11:14.920 hesitant to say, well, my family, you know, my family is this. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's just, it's so

00:11:19.420 trite and everybody says that. And is that enough? You know, I mean, it is, I'm not saying it isn't

00:11:26.620 that I'm just trying to be more thoughtful about the question. What drives me? Really? What drives

00:11:31.700 me is to be the best. That's it. You know, I want to, when I think about spending time with my

00:11:40.480 children, I really want to be the best father. And, and by the way, I'm not comparing that to you,

00:11:45.620 Kip, or anybody else who might be listening. I want to be the best version of yourself that I can be

00:11:50.660 personally. And so last yesterday we went bowling and, uh, we went to the arcade and then we went and

00:11:59.200 had dinner together as a family. And what drove me in that moment was to be the best father and

00:12:04.880 husband that I could possibly be. So we had fun. We joked around and we laughed and we bowled and we

00:12:09.720 played video games and arcade games. And we had dinner together and we told jokes and we poked

00:12:14.860 at each other and we just had a good time. And that's what drove me in the moment. And then I

00:12:18.620 get to this podcast and I think, okay, what drives me now? I want to be the best podcaster. I want to

00:12:23.920 provide the best information. I want to be the single greatest resource for men who want to

00:12:29.760 improve themselves in some capacity. So my, my quest for whatever it is, if it's jujitsu or podcasting

00:12:38.340 or family stuff or building and engaging my hobbies or hunting, it's to be the best it's to unlock that

00:12:46.740 potential. That's just been sitting there dormant. And that, that motivates me just knowing that,

00:12:52.240 man, I just need to sneak out just a little bit more like that podcast I did on Friday, just one degree

00:12:56.980 difference, which we talked about on the AMA last week, just one degree. I just need to, how can I

00:13:01.900 squeeze just a little bit more out of my performance? And that's the thing that drives me because I want

00:13:06.980 to be the best. It's hard for me to imagine. And we have people like this who get into things, whether

00:13:14.400 it's just playing Monopoly or starting their own business where they're like, yeah, I don't really care

00:13:19.280 if I win that. I can't fathom that. Why would I do anything if, and this is not an indictment on

00:13:26.940 anybody else, by the way, it's just hard for me to understand why anybody would do anything if they,

00:13:33.360 if their goal wasn't to be the best. Somebody asked me the other day, they said, do you think

00:13:39.740 you're, cause I posted a picture of the canoe and they said, do you think it'll float?

00:13:43.140 And pardon my French, cause I don't swear a lot, but why the fuck would I build a canoe

00:13:49.340 if I didn't think it would float? Like that's, that's the mentality I'm talking about.

00:13:56.740 Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm just going to try this business, just dabble and see if it

00:14:00.140 would work. Screw that. Just imagine if you're the best man. Like think what kind of person you'd

00:14:06.620 have to be to build a canoe with the idea that it may not float. Like that's exactly right.

00:14:13.080 That you would think it may not float. Like that's exactly right. You wouldn't be building

00:14:17.540 the canoe. You would stop and go, why am I wasting my freaking time doing this? Because I don't think

00:14:21.840 this thing's going to float. Right. Apparently there's people out there that think like that,

00:14:25.720 man, when I go, I go all in. If I'm going to start a business, it's cause I think it'll win.

00:14:31.640 Will I have failures? Yeah. And I'm, I'm realistic about that. I don't have setbacks and all.

00:14:36.040 But you want to waste your time. You don't know, like you and half hearted.

00:14:40.820 Even my wife sometimes will get after me because we'd be playing, you know, Monopoly or a board

00:14:44.480 game. And she's like, why are you always so serious? I'm like, cause I want to freaking win.

00:14:47.740 Why would I, why would I play Monopoly not to win? That's what, that's the point. The point is to win

00:14:53.300 the game. The point of business is to build a business that serves people and you make money.

00:14:57.640 The point of going to the gym is to get stronger. The point of building a canoe is so I can float and you

00:15:03.500 can go fish or float down the stream or river. And that's the point of it. So why do it? If

00:15:08.460 anyway, I think we might be getting a little off tangent here, but what drives me is to be the best.

00:15:14.360 That's it. Okay. So Matt surges question. What do you personally do to get out of a funk

00:15:22.560 that is slowing you down from achieving your goals? That happens to everyone once in a while,

00:15:26.760 other than just staying disciplined, which again, people break sometimes any advice for keeping

00:15:32.440 strong and seeing the core. So based upon what motivates you, I actually think this would be

00:15:37.320 valuable. If you don't mind me adding to Matt's question is one, what do you think generates a

00:15:42.880 funk for you? And then what do you do to get out of it? Is, is the funk because you're like,

00:15:48.100 you know what? I'm not the best. And, and you start doubting your actions, progressing you in that

00:15:53.520 area. Is that what, or that's not really something I did. Well, okay. So yes, sometimes I get down on

00:16:01.060 myself where I think, and usually that comes from comparing myself to somebody else. Yeah. Like it's

00:16:06.860 not working. I'm not right. Because I'm comparing it. Oh, well, look at what that guy's doing. And so

00:16:12.320 that might create a little bit of this funk. Another reason that I actually get it more often than

00:16:17.640 that reason is because it's become monotonous for me. And it's just become so systematic and

00:16:24.700 monotonous and robotic almost that it's just like, really, I got to do this again. So what I personally

00:16:31.980 do, and by the way, this solves both problems, whether it's comparison to somebody else or monotony

00:16:38.380 is just get to work on something that's engaging to you. So just, and sometimes you're just gonna have

00:16:44.220 to mix it up. You know, just, just same thing with this podcast. Think about this. We were doing the

00:16:48.120 interview podcast, which I still love, but at some point, two years into it, I was like, okay, well,

00:16:53.100 what else? Like, what else is there? And so we did the Friday field notes and now we're doing the

00:16:57.880 ask me anything. And we mix these other things into, into the equation that allow us still to be

00:17:05.440 disciplined. I think this guy talked about being disciplined. Yeah. We're still being disciplined,

00:17:10.180 but we're doing different actions still along similar pursuits that will keep us motivated,

00:17:17.780 compelled, and interested in the thing that we're doing. But sometimes with a rut, you just gotta,

00:17:22.200 you've just gotta pop yourself out of it by doing something different, something unique,

00:17:26.300 something engaging. And then you can come back into whatever it is that you have to get done because

00:17:30.880 we have duty and obligation responsibility. You can do it with a new mindset, a new perspective,

00:17:36.460 a new level of energy because you went out and did something different. Like we're not meant to be

00:17:41.100 drones. And so many men are, you know, we wake up, we shower, we maybe grab a quick bite to eat.

00:17:47.000 We run into work. We're doing somebody else's job. 60 to 70% by studies have shown that that amount of

00:17:53.640 people are dissatisfied with the work they're doing. They have no lunch break. They have no hobbies.

00:17:58.780 They have no friends. They have no pursuits or interests. They come home, their kids are jumping on them.

00:18:02.980 Their wife's asking them to do a bunch of things. They sit down, they drink a beer or two. They watch

00:18:07.260 a show, they go to bed and they do it all over again. And of course, of course, you're going to

00:18:13.340 get burned out on that. In fact, I did a podcast. I think this was two or three weeks ago. It was a

00:18:22.900 Friday field notes. Let's see if I can find it here. And it was, it was titled, I think it was titled

00:18:30.200 how to, how to avoid burnout. Burnout. Yeah, you're right. Let's see here. Oh yeah, here it is. So

00:18:34.960 February 26th, it's avoid burnout in your business and relationships, but the information I share

00:18:40.180 applies to any facet of your life. So you might go back and listen to that one. It's February 26th,

00:18:44.620 avoid burnout in your business and relationships. And would you say, Ryan, those adjustments to tactics

00:18:50.100 allow you to be creative again? And, and, and that's part of the benefit that you're getting is like

00:18:55.640 creativity and trying and you know what I mean? Exploration versus just, you know?

00:19:02.100 Yeah. I mean, yes. Creativity is, is crucial. You have to be able to flex that creative muscle.

00:19:09.600 And, and if you don't get to flex that life becomes very stale. Yeah. I was, I was thinking

00:19:15.600 about that even at jujitsu the other day is there's some default things that I feel pretty comfortable

00:19:19.860 with. And, and I, and I always fall back on those defaults and I went and trained the other night

00:19:25.060 and I gave myself permission to be creative, which means here's the trick. I got caught a whole lot

00:19:31.920 more, you know, so that wounds your pride and the optics don't look as good, right? Well, how come

00:19:38.620 Ryan's getting caught in this and that and by this and everything else, I had to give myself permission

00:19:43.420 to be a little creative and that creativity over time is going to make me better over time being

00:19:49.900 the key word right up front. It doesn't because I could always go back to the things that work,

00:19:55.720 the fundamentals and the foundations and the things that work, but you got to push those edges a little

00:19:59.840 bit. You got to get out on the fringes and see some things you're going to find out. Nope. That

00:20:04.000 doesn't work. Bring it back in and other things. Whoa, that was a breakthrough. I didn't realize that

00:20:08.600 was there, but you have to go out on other fringes to find where those moments are. Otherwise, yeah,

00:20:14.100 life just becomes very monotonous and, and your, your growth just kind of stalemates a little bit,

00:20:20.840 right? It's just, it just stops. It kind of flatlines and plateaus and this is how we avoid the

00:20:26.080 plateaus in our lives. Yeah. I think that's a foundational principle too, because like to your

00:20:31.700 point, you know, I'm being really creative with Kimora's. It's just, I'm even getting a nickname at

00:20:36.800 the gym of Kip Mora's, you know, cause I'm just, I'm, I just, I'm obsessed, but I give my back.

00:20:44.800 There's an element of exposing my back always. Right. So I'm getting choked all the time because

00:20:51.200 I'm constantly like diving in for these things. Right. And, but there's no learning in that.

00:20:56.240 Yeah. And that's exactly. And there's, I have a, Oh, good. I was going to say, did you watch the

00:21:01.600 fights this last weekend? UFC? I didn't. I didn't. I was out of town. It was an interesting,

00:21:06.400 I mean, it was amazing card. It was very interesting how it went, but I watched a,

00:21:10.080 I think Dominic Cruz was fighting. I can't remember if he was on the main card or prelims,

00:21:14.380 but he's an interesting guy, you know, like the way that they were talking about him quite a bit,

00:21:19.980 how he developed his own movement and, and style and footwork. And he's pretty square.

00:21:25.560 His stance is pretty square to his opponent, which is unique and different and very dangerous at times.

00:21:30.920 And he moves and drops his head a lot. So theoretically he could get kicked in the head

00:21:37.100 really easily, but he moves so much. It's crazy.

00:21:41.520 So he's developed this very interesting, unique style. That's very hard to deal with. Cause a lot

00:21:46.260 of people don't see it, but I guarantee he's gotten kicked in the head, you know, his fair share of

00:21:52.140 times because he's developed this very unique and fascinating style that, uh, you know, is, is,

00:22:00.220 it's hard to deal with, but you got to earn it, right? You got it. You got to actually earn your

00:22:05.020 licks. And, and I'm sure he has, you know, to be able to create a style like that.

00:22:09.760 Yeah, totally. I, I have a pretty regiment, uh, workout plan that I follow.

00:22:15.200 And probably about a month ago, I started, I found this YouTube guy, this fitness, super funny,

00:22:23.780 hilarious guy, by the way, I'm like, I was going to ping him. Like we should try to get him on the

00:22:28.440 podcast. I just love listening to him. He's just so funny. He's more of a comedian. Uh, let me pull

00:22:34.260 it up. It's, it's Ryan guys. Well, once I said Ryan and funny, I'm sure all the guys are already

00:22:41.260 like, I know who he's talking about. Um, I'll pull it up here while I share this, but, um,

00:22:46.280 but what I did is I changed, I, I have my, you know, standard workout and then I incorporated

00:22:54.720 his workouts into it. Right. So instead of doing like incline bench flies, I did his version of

00:23:01.680 incline bench flies instead, or I added his finisher onto my existing like chest day or whatever.

00:23:08.120 I was excited to go to the gym more. I was like, I was like, Oh, Oh, I'm going to try that move that,

00:23:15.100 uh, that, that this guy does. And I was like more excited to go. And I got like a better workout,

00:23:20.380 right? Cause I confused my body and everything. And I'm like, it's funny out just that principle

00:23:25.040 probably just transcends into all areas. Well, and also you are being disciplined still,

00:23:30.760 right? So, so your creativity doesn't come at the expense of your discipline or it doesn't have to,

00:23:36.880 but you know, there is a fine line though, while you're pulling that up, I'll say this,

00:23:40.460 there's a fine line too, especially when it comes to the gym where a lot of people will bounce from

00:23:46.880 workout to workout, from diet to diet, from this to that, because this is the next shiny object.

00:23:52.400 And that actually can be to your detriment too, because you do need to maintain, you need to

00:23:58.340 train your muscles to build muscle based on the workload they're dealing with. So there's a fine line

00:24:03.820 between finding your regiment and not getting anything done. Cause you're chasing shiny objects.

00:24:10.240 Thing to thing to thing. People do it with their jobs. People do it with religion. People do it at

00:24:13.540 work. They do it everywhere. Find the next best thing and it plays to their detriment. So there

00:24:19.260 is a line to be found there. Yeah. As Jock would say, there's the dichotomy, right? To all things.

00:24:24.480 Of course. Sure. Um, it's Ryan, uh, Hummingston.

00:24:29.160 Hummingston. Okay. I'll, I don't know him. So I'll have to look it up.

00:24:31.660 Oh my gosh. Seriously. Like I almost want to watch his workout videos just so I can get a

00:24:36.600 good laugh. Okay. I'll look it up. This guy's super funny. Yeah. Cool. All right, man. What

00:24:41.320 else we got? All right. Next question. And it's kind of similar, but I, I just want to confirm

00:24:45.980 like, uh, this is related to order of man and, but it's related. So I thought it was good transition

00:24:51.360 here. So Joe row 92, do you ever find yourself burned out? Meaning like you're about to hit a wall

00:24:56.480 with running out of ways to help improve masculinity for others in yourself. If so,

00:25:01.460 do you continue to keep the fire or how do you continue to keep the fire and the passion alive?

00:25:06.860 And I think you gave the example about adjustments to the podcast and other things. Is there anything

00:25:11.720 else that rejuvenates you in regards to the passion of the order of man movement?

00:25:16.460 I don't get burned out on ways to help. Like there's always, there's an infinite number,

00:25:22.540 literally an infinite number of ways to make an impact and to help. Yes. I'm never worried about,

00:25:27.240 Oh, we run out of ways to do this, but sometimes I do frankly get very tired of listening to the

00:25:33.340 same problems and the same excuses and the same justifications. And it, and it weighs on me because

00:25:40.780 sometimes I just want to reach through the screen and shake people's necks and say,

00:25:44.960 what is your problem? Or just go back and listen, you know, listen to the past six months of what

00:25:50.880 we've done. And that becomes discouraging. But then I realize, you know, maybe they just found us

00:25:57.200 or, or, or maybe they haven't been around that long. But if I hear from a guy over and over and

00:26:02.580 over again about how shitty his life is and how messed up his relationship is and why he got passed

00:26:08.460 over for the promotion and he's been bitching about it for two years, that's very frustrating for me.

00:26:14.960 And that's somebody who's just not ready for the help yet. And I have to let that go. I don't want

00:26:20.300 to genuinely want guys like that to thrive, but I have to, for the sake of my own sanity and for the

00:26:28.600 sake of this movement, let those individuals go and just say, Hey, we'll be here when you're ready

00:26:32.540 and just keep driving on. So for me, when I get that kind of frustration, I just let go of the

00:26:39.800 things outside of my control. And I can't control how other people respond. And I can't control how

00:26:44.160 other people behave and what they do and what they don't do. All I can do is my own focus on my own

00:26:50.980 efforts, focus on my own progress, focus on the way that I want to help people and just let the

00:26:55.800 chips fall where they may. And then we get emails and messages from people like you were sharing

00:27:00.440 earlier and you realize, Oh yeah, this is why we do it. You know, that guy saved his marriage and this guy

00:27:08.060 connected with his, his son and this, this, this guy lost 50 pounds and this guy just started a

00:27:13.700 business and he's giving some of that credit to us. That's pretty powerful. If you think about that.

00:27:20.180 So it's a matter of what you focus on. Do you focus on the guys that are just stuck in the rut and don't

00:27:24.620 do anything about it? Or the men who were at one point stuck in the rut and decided to jerk on the

00:27:29.520 wheel and pop themselves out of that rut and start fixing their lives because they heard something you

00:27:33.880 said in a way they actually needed to hear it. And that's pretty powerful. And then just keep

00:27:39.320 mixing it up for me. It's like, okay, well, you know, that didn't work. So what are we going to

00:27:42.420 do? Let's just shake things up. And I actually liked that shaking things up. There's risk that

00:27:45.800 comes with that. People get pissed off when you do it. You know, I'll, I'll say things every once in a

00:27:50.800 while, occasionally that I know is going to ruffle some feathers and rile people up, but I do it on

00:27:54.480 purpose. I'm like, good. Like, let me know you're alive. Like, even if you don't agree with me,

00:28:00.100 at least I know you're like kicking still get like, let's, let's have some heart, you know? And,

00:28:05.040 and, and so many men are just so sedated. The only thing I can imagine is, is, is like being in a

00:28:12.140 mental hospital and being strapped quite literally with your hands and your legs strapped to the bed.

00:28:16.880 And then when you start to go crazy, the nurses rush in and they give you a shot to sedate you.

00:28:21.120 And that's what most men do. It seems like it's like, I want to know you're still alive. Oh, good.

00:28:25.640 You're pissed off. Good. Thank you. I know you have a heartbeat now. Like, let's, let's go. Let's get

00:28:30.000 riled up about something here. So, yeah. One thing that you said, I think is profound that we need

00:28:35.620 to remember is sometimes people aren't ready for the message. You know, it's, we get this a little

00:28:41.220 bit. I've gotten this a little bit. I'm sure you get it all the time, you know, in the iron council

00:28:45.760 and some feedback that we get from guys on the podcast of like, Oh, what you said was profound

00:28:50.760 or whatever. And, and sometimes I go, I've said that like a hundred times, of course, like what's new

00:28:56.860 this time? Like I probably even regurgitated the same exact sentence, but now it connected. And,

00:29:03.500 and, and I, and I think it's like, sometimes I get frustrated with that. Like,

00:29:08.100 didn't you already listen? But then I also see how I do that to my kids, you know, where I might

00:29:13.060 withhold feedback or guidance and direction of my kids, because I've already told them,

00:29:17.400 right. I've already communicated that to them before they know, well, actually maybe they don't,

00:29:22.860 they don't, they don't. And it's, and it's the 20th time that it's going to connect, not the one

00:29:28.360 through 19. Right. You know, and I have to remind myself that it's that reputation that also matters

00:29:33.420 a lot. So when I was managing retail clothing stores, one of my first jobs in retail was working

00:29:41.660 at journey shoe store. And one thing that we would do, and this ties into what we're saying here

00:29:47.740 is we would have this display wall and we would put all the shoes and we put, you know, the,

00:29:52.080 the skater shoes here and the vans here and the, the dress shoes here. And so we'd have them

00:29:56.940 segmented out. Right. But on this wall, let's just say there's 50 slots to put shoes. Well,

00:30:01.640 we didn't have 50 designs necessarily in that one style, that one genre of shoes. So what we would do

00:30:08.320 is we would double them up. So we'd put like one shoe up here and we put the exact same shoe on the

00:30:13.680 bottom, right. As what was on the top left. And so you would just double it up. And I always thought

00:30:18.840 that was weird. And I asked my, I remember I either asked my manager or my supervisor, like,

00:30:23.640 why don't we double them up? I mean, this shoe's already up here. And he's like, because some people

00:30:27.280 won't see that shoe, but they'll, they will see that one. And I'm like, what? That's weird.

00:30:32.800 So I, I watched, I observed, and I would see people. And here's the funny thing I'd see people do.

00:30:38.720 I'd see them pick up a shoe on the top left. They'd pick it up and they would look at it and

00:30:43.720 they're like, Oh, okay. Interesting. You know, you could tell later looking at it, see if they like

00:30:46.820 it. And they would put it back and then they would look around and they'd reach for the exact same

00:30:50.900 shoe on the bottom, right. And they would pick it up and they're like, Oh, I really liked this one.

00:30:55.880 It's the same damn shoe. Why do they like that one? I actually don't know. I don't know why they

00:31:01.400 liked that one, but for whatever reason, whether it was the placement or the lighting, or they were

00:31:07.380 comparing it to another shoe that was next to it, there's so many different variables and factors.

00:31:11.220 That was what did it for them in that shoe, in that position, in that place, at that price point,

00:31:17.840 in that color did it for them. Although there's probably three or four other places in the store

00:31:22.580 where that exact same shoe is. And this is what we're talking about. You said it in just the right

00:31:28.460 way at just the right moment, in just the right context with the perfect analogy, the way that that

00:31:34.600 individual needed to hear it. And so it's our job as leaders, whether it's this podcast, or you as a

00:31:40.600 father, like you mentioned, or an employee employer relationship to go meet people where they are, so they

00:31:49.280 can learn what needs to be learned. And when they're ready, they'll know exactly where to turn. And that's a

00:31:54.740 very intriguing process to me. And that actually keeps me pretty fired up. How can we continue to reach out to

00:31:59.660 people in a way that's meaningful and significant from the marketing and the colors to the tone, the inflection,

00:32:06.520 the language that we use? How can we connect with people, men in particular, in a way that they need to hear it

00:32:14.120 so they'll make the positive changes in their life? That's a fun process to me.

00:32:18.140 Yeah. I like that shoe analogy because I could even see where you could use that same story to

00:32:24.200 illustrate the importance of who you surround yourself with.

00:32:28.660 Oh, for sure.

00:32:29.520 I think you could have a guy that's solid, great man, but he's surrounding himself around lesser men.

00:32:37.680 And when you go to meet him the first time, you're not going to think as highly of him because who's he

00:32:42.300 surrounding by, right? And I could think of this analogy for teenage kids to the kind of people we

00:32:47.980 surround ourselves with and who we work with and, you know, and everything else. I mean, one thing

00:32:52.460 that we've told our teenage son, this total segue off the original question, my apologies, but what's

00:32:57.200 something we've told our son is like, you're with a group of rowdy kids acting inappropriate. You're guilty.

00:33:02.720 Of course, you're guilty if you laugh at what they said, even though you're not the one that said it

00:33:08.300 because you're associating yourself, you know, which is interesting because that's a very passive

00:33:15.720 thing to do. Oh, I giggled a little bit or I smiled. Well, how much, how passive are we with

00:33:21.500 everything that happens in this world where we like a button or we don't say anything or we giggle a

00:33:27.580 little bit, but we actually don't confront it and not by, and by not confronting, we're passively

00:33:33.200 including ourselves in, in that behavior. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Great point. Side, side, sidebar

00:33:41.780 comment. All right. Very valuable. Very nice. Thank you. Very nice. I appreciate that.

00:33:49.020 Where do you see yourself in five and 10 years? Do you have any other projects lined up with your boy?

00:33:53.900 I already know this question, but maybe you have projects lined up with your boy for after the canoe.

00:33:58.660 Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. No projects. Focus at hand. Why? I'm, I'm working. I got a project.

00:34:07.140 Why even look at, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Why would I start looking ahead at something when,

00:34:11.540 I'm not saying that I don't have a vision of at least the way that I show up and some things that

00:34:16.240 I would like generally like to do, but I'm not thinking about another project. I'm still on this

00:34:21.460 project. Yeah. If I start thinking about something else, then that diminishes the value of what I'm

00:34:26.440 doing currently. This is a huge problem that we have is that we either live in the future or we

00:34:32.000 live in the past. Not, you can't do anything about either live for today. Now, look, you should have

00:34:40.760 your eyes up, right? When you're driving down the road at night, you have your headlights. And when

00:34:47.420 you're driving, you're not looking right over your hood. You're looking, I don't know, 30, 40 yards down

00:34:51.400 the road, maybe longer because you need to anticipate what's coming up so that you can

00:34:55.940 make movements today, right now, currently that will keep you and the people in your, in your care

00:35:01.260 safe. So yes, you should be looking to the future of what's on the horizon and what could potentially

00:35:07.880 come up and what opportunities could present themselves. Where's the turn on the road that

00:35:11.940 I need to take. I need to start looking for that so I can make the corrections and adjust today.

00:35:15.800 But very few of us start working into the present. And then we miss this wonderful opportunity. I told

00:35:21.100 you my son thinks I'm going to die here pretty soon, apparently, because I'm coming up on 40 years

00:35:26.500 old. That should be fodder for me to start thinking about what I should be doing today and how I should

00:35:32.740 be living today. So no, I don't have any projects. You know, look, we've got the truck, we've got the

00:35:38.120 scout. I know that's something that me and my children would like to work on together. I haven't put a

00:35:42.900 whole lot of thought and effort into that because we're, we're doing this right now. That's good.

00:35:46.660 That's, that's where we are. As far as where I see myself in 10 years, I don't know what, like,

00:35:52.320 what are you going to have for dinner tonight, Kip? Do you know what you're going to have for dinner

00:35:55.160 tonight? Nope. I don't know what I'm gonna have for dinner tonight. Cause I just don't know. Like,

00:36:02.060 I don't know. That's not important right now. Yeah. And it's six hours away. And I don't know what,

00:36:08.480 I don't know where I'm going to be in five years. So here's the point that I'm making. The way that

00:36:13.960 I plan this stuff out is I create a vision of the type of individual that I want to be.

00:36:20.200 What kind of father do I want to be? How do I, how do I want to show up for my wife? What kind of

00:36:28.200 leader of this movement or some other business maybe do I want to be? These, these, this is how I

00:36:34.020 visualize my future. And then I start working backwards to today and 90 day segments. What can I

00:36:40.840 do right now? And over the next 89 days that will help me realize the vision for the kind of

00:36:47.520 individual that I want to be. And what that allows me to do is it allows me to have the North star

00:36:52.040 of where I'm going and how I behave and how I show up, but it allows me to be flexible on the path.

00:36:59.080 You know, maybe it's order of man. And maybe in two years, podcasting is dead and it's something

00:37:05.160 else. And I didn't adjust or wasn't interested and, or maybe something else came up that I was

00:37:09.680 more interested in. And I pivoted because it really wasn't about exactly what I was going to be in five

00:37:16.140 years, but the kind of person I was going to be. And I felt like this deviant, this path is,

00:37:22.800 was going to serve me better on that, on that vision than, than what I'm currently on.

00:37:26.880 So I don't plan that far ahead. I plan a 90 day set. I have that vision. Then I work backwards

00:37:33.880 in a 90 day set. What am I going to do over the next 90 days? That's going to help me get to this

00:37:37.480 point. And then in 90 days, usually earlier 60 days, I start reevaluating my next 90 days and so

00:37:43.080 on and so forth. Yeah. And for you guys that are interested in the details of what Ryan's talking

00:37:48.080 about, you can actually sign up for the battle ready program. Uh, that, that is really the,

00:37:53.860 the instructional, um, process around what Ryan's talking about. That's a order of man.com

00:37:59.280 slash battle ready. All right. VM creative, VM creative Aram. I don't know that this is a good

00:38:05.620 part about these Instagram names because I can't really slaughter words that aren't words. All

00:38:10.220 right. You can, but nobody would know if you did or not. So true. Only that, only that one person.

00:38:16.560 Yeah. Um, how to handle or maneuver political and social opinion differences between yourself

00:38:22.800 and your spouse, particularly around the beast of the year 2020 and what seems to be continuing

00:38:28.600 into 2021. So political and social. Yeah. Let me back up at first and say this. I've been thinking

00:38:37.180 about this a lot lately, because we have a lot of guys who are considering getting married or,

00:38:41.180 or have just gotten married or have been married for a long time, but marriage is on a lot of men's

00:38:45.540 minds. Obviously I'm, I'm, I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to justify or rationalize

00:38:54.280 getting involved with somebody who doesn't at some fundamental level agree with you on politics,

00:39:03.740 religion, some of these other issues. I just can't fathom living with and partnering with an

00:39:10.520 individual who want to fund. And I'm not saying we have some political differences that's different.

00:39:14.560 But on a fundamental foundational basis, like what it means to be for an example, an American

00:39:23.280 or what Liberty is or the history of this country or the freedom definition of freedom, it just is

00:39:31.580 not like marriage is hard enough as it is. I just don't know why you would in your right mind and

00:39:37.380 it's not your right mind actually, but why in your right mind you would ever commit to a woman who

00:39:45.320 at the fundamental level does not, for example, if you're Christian and she's an atheist, like how,

00:39:52.320 how do you see that working? Now, if you're a Christian, you're, you're, you're a Baptist and

00:39:57.220 she's a Protestant. Okay. Well, all right. Fundamentally, you know, we've got some, we've got some,

00:40:02.160 we, we believe in Christ, right? Like we believe in, in eternal life and in the afterlife. We believe

00:40:09.140 in that. So, okay, let's work through these little differences, but at a fundamental level, like just

00:40:14.700 don't guys, I'm telling you right now, just don't. Oh, but I love her. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of other

00:40:19.500 people to love too. So that's not a good reason. All right. We had to knock that out of the way. Did you

00:40:24.860 have something to add before we, I was just going to add, you know, your point is like, why, how could

00:40:29.520 a guy do, I think guys do, because they don't, they don't know. Like, I don't think they have

00:40:34.740 clearly identified where they stand on, on these issues and what's really important to them. So,

00:40:42.340 you know, they're just chasing tell, you don't think that. Okay. I don't think, I think the second

00:40:48.640 part of what you said is right. They're just, they're just chasing tell. They're like, I'm not going

00:40:52.560 to address that until later. That's that it's delusion. I agree with that. They're like, oh,

00:40:56.920 yeah, well, yeah, we don't, you know, we don't believe we don't, we don't agree on how to raise

00:41:00.420 our kids, but you know, I really love her and she's got a nice body and like, we have a lot of

00:41:03.600 fun. The sex is good. I think that's probably pretty accurate. Yeah. Cause I, I wonder how many

00:41:10.980 guys are clear on, on where they stand on things. You don't have to be clear to know some of these,

00:41:17.380 to know you're not in the same page. I see what you're saying. You don't have to have your,

00:41:21.020 your whole life's philosophy. I mean, at 20 years old, like how, how clear could you possibly be?

00:41:28.420 True. True. I got married at 23. I didn't know everything that I know now. And I certainly wasn't

00:41:35.580 as convicted about certain parts of my life and certain parts of politics and society as I am now.

00:41:40.940 How could, how could I be? Yeah. So I don't think you need to be super clear to know

00:41:47.340 fundamentally what you believe in and how you want to raise your kids and whether or not you're,

00:41:53.160 you're spiritual and believe in God or what you think about freedom and liberty and the pursuit

00:41:57.280 of happiness. Like, you know, but come on, you know. All right. So how, how about, so the answer for

00:42:03.640 all the saps that are already married. Good luck. Um, the answer is you have to find some commonality

00:42:14.180 and some common ground and you have to strip away the politics, the rules, the regulations,

00:42:20.500 the procedures, the minutia, the details. You have to strip all of that away and get down to the root

00:42:27.500 of what actually matters. So let's say, for example, you have some differences with regards to how you're

00:42:32.900 going to raise your children. Well, let's strip all of the, let's strip the way we discipline.

00:42:38.680 And I'm just throwing out examples, but let's say that you believe in spanking your children and she

00:42:43.840 doesn't believe in that. Okay. All right. Let's strip out the method of discipline and just get

00:42:50.680 down to the root of it. Do you think we need to correct our children when they do wrong? Yes,

00:42:54.820 of course. I would think most rational people would say that. All right. At least we're on the same page.

00:43:00.800 Now let's come up with some reasonable solutions on how we can do this. That will serve first your

00:43:08.060 kids' need in this case, and then our needs. Cause in this particular instance, we have to worry about

00:43:14.360 how the children are being served first. And then we can worry about how we're going to do it or what

00:43:18.280 our ego says, or whether or not we want to be right or wrong. And I think if you start getting down

00:43:23.700 into the layers, you're going to find some more commonalities than you are going to find differences.

00:43:28.980 For example, you're all going to believe that you want to raise your kids to be self-sufficient human

00:43:34.040 beings. I think most people want that. If it's differences in politics, I think most people, here's a

00:43:41.320 good example. Most people want to help other people who are less fortunate than them, right? I don't care

00:43:47.940 what side of the aisle you sit on. I don't, you know, we generally, I would think, again, generally

00:43:53.460 speaking, think that, you know, the democratic party is the more empathetic party, right? That's what we

00:43:58.740 hear, right? And conservatives are just worried about capitalism, but I don't think that's the

00:44:02.300 case. I think that both parties and everybody on both sides of the aisle really want to make

00:44:07.940 sure that the underprivileged are helped and that they're taken care of and that they have

00:44:13.840 opportunities. I think everybody wants that except for a few psychopaths and they sit on both sides of

00:44:18.880 the aisle, by the way. Okay. It's not a difference of whether or not we want those people to be served

00:44:24.580 and helped and lift it up. It's, it's the way we go about doing it. So if we strip all of the

00:44:30.540 procedure away and we get down to the root of the matter, which is we want those individuals to be

00:44:34.460 served and we work off of that, let's work off of that foundation. And then let's figure out a way

00:44:41.800 that we can do this in order to serve as many people as we possibly can. I think you're going to

00:44:46.420 be better off. And I think if you did that in your relationship, if you're having conflicting

00:44:50.320 interests or arguments or debates or discussions, peel it away, peel it away. Hey, look, I don't

00:44:56.180 agree with that. I don't agree with that, but at the root, what is it that we're trying to accomplish?

00:45:00.320 And I think you're going to find you're on the same page a lot more than you're off of it.

00:45:05.180 Why do you think most people don't do this?

00:45:08.620 Well, what gets them hard?

00:45:11.160 Just there's a, there's a lot of time. It takes work.

00:45:13.900 Yeah. And it's, we have egos.

00:45:18.380 Yeah. I want to be right. I am right. Not even, I want to be right. I am right.

00:45:24.380 I think that like when I share things, I'm, I'm a hundred percent. That's right. What I said was

00:45:30.420 accurate. And when somebody says something, no, no, that's not accurate. It's the first thing I do

00:45:35.620 is say, well, you're wrong. Yeah. You're a hundred percent wrong. How, how could I not be right?

00:45:40.480 Right. That's ego. I got it. I actually don't know. I I've got to evaluate. I've got to take

00:45:46.520 it into consideration. It's not easy for me. It's not easy for anybody to do, but it takes effort

00:45:51.640 and time. We're all lazy. We don't want to do that. And a lot of us don't want to rock the boat,

00:45:56.360 right? You're sitting on the boat. Why rock the boat, especially in your marriage.

00:46:00.720 I already said it's hard enough as it is. And now you're telling me you want to start like rocking the

00:46:05.120 boat and putting extra variables and extra strain on the boat that might eventually capsize us. Nah,

00:46:10.120 I think I'll just sit here quietly and cross my arms and pretend like nothing's going on.

00:46:16.300 And then also I have a desire to be right. I want to be right. So our ego gets in the way.

00:46:21.660 Yeah. I do think there's a level of, of

00:46:24.460 kind of this expectation that we set on our spouses of the way they should be. And I, I could see that

00:46:33.300 coming into play where we're like, no, no, no, you should, you should be agreeing with me.

00:46:39.060 We should be on the same page. And when we're not, it's like, it's not, oh, we just need to work

00:46:45.180 through it and, and discuss it's something's wrong. It shouldn't be this way. And we just

00:46:50.520 blankedly like say something's wrong with, with the marriage, you know, and, and that it shouldn't be

00:46:57.440 this way. And then we don't even dive into anything because I mean, I shouldn't have to,

00:47:01.900 you know, I think this is especially true with men. You know, look, I'm wearing my patriarch shirt

00:47:08.340 today. So we have this thing. It's right. Men rule, rule the roost. So we have this thing in our

00:47:16.320 mind of like my way or the highway. I'm, I'm the man, I'm the patriarch, and this is the way it's

00:47:21.000 going to go. And so we have this idea in our heads and then there's some other factors. One is we

00:47:27.420 always want to fix things, right? That's, that's one. So if somebody else is experiencing, look,

00:47:34.060 if my wife's experiencing a difficult situation with her family or friends or any number of things

00:47:37.940 it could be, she has to literally tell me, Hey, I don't want you to fix this for me. I just want you

00:47:43.660 to tell me. And I'm like, well, why would you want to tell me? Like, I don't, what's the point of

00:47:46.820 telling me if you don't fix the problem? I don't get it. I don't understand, but you know what I've

00:47:51.660 come to realize? I don't need to get it. I don't need, I don't need to understand why she needs it

00:47:58.740 to be that way. All I need to do is realize she needs it to be that way for whatever reason. And

00:48:03.440 if me just sitting there and saying, yeah, that sucks, which is hard for me to do what that sucks.

00:48:09.840 And that's like the end of my thought. That's really hard. I can't provide coaching and guidance

00:48:14.660 direction. Yeah. Yeah. But she does, you know, if that serves her, then, then okay. You know?

00:48:20.080 And then as the, as the man of the house that I try to be, you know, it's hard for me not to want

00:48:25.640 to put my foot down on some certain items. And there are some things that I will, by the way.

00:48:29.700 And there's other things where I'd realize, Oh, you know what? This is not really the hill I want

00:48:33.520 to die on. This isn't it. And I, and I've learned through maybe just some level of maturity to let

00:48:40.320 some of that stuff go. And, and if she's content that she, you know, I don't want to say got her

00:48:46.900 way, but that, that she was valued, that her perspective was heard and acted upon. And it

00:48:53.400 was something that, that I didn't feel like I needed to die on. Then that's a good thing for

00:48:58.560 both of us. Good for her. It's good for me. It's good for the family dynamic. And I'm okay with that.

00:49:02.860 And then by the way, if I let go of some of that stuff, when I do put my foot down, she's like,

00:49:08.020 Oh, okay. He must actually be serious about this because normally he's okay with, with working

00:49:15.540 through these things and, and, and not letting it be a big deal, but this is a big deal to him. So

00:49:20.280 I wonder why. And then it holds more weight, which is what I want. Yeah. I like it. Richard Seeley

00:49:28.620 tips on overcoming social anxiety. Probably a quick answer. Yeah. Just go where people are going.

00:49:35.420 Just jump into the deep end. Like you can, you can tread water, right? Maybe you don't know how to

00:49:41.940 swim. Maybe you're not an Olympic swimmer, but you can certainly tread water. So just go jump in the

00:49:47.440 deep end and it's going to be uncomfortable and it's going to be painful. And your whole psyche is

00:49:53.660 going to be saying, get out of here, save yourself. You're in danger and you're not, you're lying to

00:50:02.100 yourself. Yeah. It's not even you. Cause I think when I say you, I'm, I'm thinking about the conscious

00:50:07.520 you. It's not you. Your subconscious is telling you you're in danger and you're not in danger.

00:50:14.040 It's just really, really awkward and uncomfortable. So throw yourself into the deep end, pick up some

00:50:19.200 skills. You could read a book called the assertiveness workbook. You can use little frameworks.

00:50:24.260 We've talked about the frog acronym, which is talking about people's friends, recreation,

00:50:30.020 occupation, and goals. You can use little things like that to, to remember how to talk to people,

00:50:36.560 but alt and people will say, well, what's a great book I could read on communication.

00:50:40.440 I mean, they're out there, but you should probably just go communicate. That's what you should do.

00:50:45.300 Practice. Practice it. Yeah. So you can do that one of two ways. You can, you can casually walk into

00:50:52.980 the pool, slowly start at the shallow end and like slowly. And that's a strategy. And then just like

00:50:59.040 when your feet are warm, you get into your shins. And when your shins are warm, then you get to your

00:51:02.760 thighs, you know, getting past the midsection is always the hardest. Right. And then eventually you

00:51:07.520 just fall in once you get past the midsection, or you could just do a cannonball into the deep end.

00:51:13.480 You pick, I don't know, but just keep moving.

00:51:16.220 Yeah. All right. David Osburnson. How do you preserve your reputation when you have someone

00:51:26.080 who used to be close to you going around and ruining it?

00:51:31.920 I mean, look, a shyster like that is going to be able to fool a few people. No doubt. Like somebody

00:51:39.540 goes around and talk shit about you and tells you how horror, tells other people how horrible you are

00:51:43.680 and what you've done. They're going to convince a few people. Yeah. But my thought has always been

00:51:49.360 just be such a man of integrity and character that if anybody ever tried to say anything else,

00:51:57.960 nobody would believe them. Yeah. And look, I can't look Kip. If one day you decided to go out and say,

00:52:05.240 Hey, you know what? Like I've been working with Ryan for three years and actually he's an asshole and

00:52:10.660 he's not a kind person and he's an idiot and this and that, like, you're going to convince some

00:52:15.200 people, but there's going to be an army of people who are like, what are you talking about?

00:52:20.240 Yeah. I mean, I've had personal interaction with Ryan. Um, he, you know, he's helped me through

00:52:24.960 difficult situations. He's called me in a difficult time. You're crazy. Yeah. And that's the thing I can

00:52:32.780 focus on. That's all I can focus on. Totally. Well, and you know, it's really powerful too,

00:52:37.800 is let's, let's assume in your example that, that you were an asshole that in the, in your past,

00:52:44.540 you were a complete Dick and someone confronted you and said, Oh, Ryan, I was talking to Kip and

00:52:49.060 he said, you're this way. And you said, you know what? Yeah. You know what? I was that. I've

00:52:53.220 certainly been an asshole in my past, you know, and I, that's an area of my time that I really regret

00:52:57.900 done. It's now over. Yeah. You just owned it. Right. Yeah. So if you do have a bad reputation in your

00:53:04.440 past, own it then. If this guy runs his mouth, just say, yeah, you know what? I was a complete

00:53:08.920 pick. People would expect that. I had a guy on the podcast and I won't say who it is for the sake of,

00:53:14.420 of names and, and, and, and come on, who is it? It's John. It's John. It was John. John Smith.

00:53:21.100 What's your reputation? Let's see if he owns this.

00:53:23.020 When I had him on John Smith, he, uh, he had to make, he had made some past decisions and choices

00:53:29.860 in his life that he wasn't proud of. And he burned some bridges and he knew that I had a relationship

00:53:36.300 with somebody that he burned some bridges with. And he just asked me, he said, Hey, you know,

00:53:41.760 I know you're going to be talking with this person. Would you mind just telling them that

00:53:46.100 I know that I've burned that bridge and, and I have serious regrets about it. And when the time's

00:53:53.300 right, I'll reach out to that person and do it myself. But would you mind saying that? And of course I

00:53:56.740 did that. Yeah. That's cool. And you know, and the, the person I said it to was actually very

00:54:02.800 receptive to it. Yeah. I didn't know how they'd receive it. And I kind of felt weird being the

00:54:06.720 middleman, but I felt like if this is something I can do for this individual and that helps this

00:54:11.360 person get in a better spot, then I can do that. Uh, and, and the individual that I reached out to

00:54:16.120 was, was very receptive to it. I don't know if they connected or not. I don't know. I don't, I just,

00:54:20.980 that, that was up for them, but I did my part and I was actually very surprised, not surprised,

00:54:26.520 but it was nice that the individual that I reached out to was like, you know,

00:54:31.420 I'm really glad that you told me that. Like we, yeah, we've had, had some difficult times in the

00:54:36.100 past and I know he's trying to fix some things and I've seen him doing that. And I just appreciate

00:54:40.980 you letting me know. And that was the extent of it, but that's ownership, right? It'll be good when

00:54:46.140 he reaches out and does that. That's even more ownership, but it's, he's on the path to making

00:54:50.680 amends. And I think most people will appreciate that. I really do. Totally. And if they don't

00:54:59.000 that, that you can't do anything about it. So yeah, it's okay. Can't change someone.

00:55:04.140 Right. All right. Tank EDC. How can you speak about masculinity to someone who identifies himself

00:55:11.220 as the opposite sex? So I'm assuming identifies would maybe we're talking about.

00:55:18.560 So they're a woman, but they think they're a man.

00:55:20.780 Yeah. Yeah. And you're talking about masculinity with them. I mean, I don't know how to answer,

00:55:25.460 like, I know this question, you haven't even answered this question, but these,

00:55:28.780 these questions so hard to answer, right? Because guys, we all like, we don't force people's

00:55:35.340 opinion, right? Like we all understand that. And so, so maybe assuming that we're not trying to

00:55:41.380 impose viewpoints with someone and maybe this is, I don't know. Do you get what I'm saying?

00:55:46.720 Like, yes, I do. So tough question sometimes. All right. So here, here's what I would say.

00:55:51.660 So you have an individual, a woman who, and I'm just, this is an assumption, but based on your

00:55:56.380 question, this is what it sounds like is that you have a woman, a biological woman who believes

00:56:00.280 that she is a man. Well, she isn't period. Yeah. Period. Full stop. She is not a man.

00:56:07.960 Now, if a transgender, if, if, let me say this way, if a woman who thought she was a man

00:56:14.340 was, was talking to me on an individual basis, I would respect that individual.

00:56:22.900 I would respect that individual. Hey, you know, like we could break bread together. We can talk,

00:56:27.760 we can have a discussion. We can, we can do whatever we want it. We go golfing, whatever.

00:56:31.900 I'm going to, I'm going to treat you and respect you as an individual, but I'm not obligated to

00:56:38.980 believe that you're a man just because you think you are, but that isn't a conversation that I'm

00:56:44.040 necessarily going to broach because why, why, why, why? Yeah. You know, it's just not, it's not a

00:56:52.900 question that would just get brought up in natural conversation. Now, if she said, what do you think

00:56:59.860 about a man who, who, who wants to be a woman? I would say, well, you can want to be whatever you

00:57:08.340 want, but that doesn't make it make you one. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. We have this weird thing

00:57:16.960 where these words like acceptance and tolerance, right? I can tolerate somebody, a woman who thinks

00:57:25.380 she's a man. I can tolerate that. That's your prerogative. That's your right. If you want to

00:57:30.140 walk around as a man and you want to manipulate your country, like do that. Fine. Cool. But I

00:57:37.540 don't have to accept it. Like, I don't have to embrace it as accurate or my opinion. I'm not

00:57:44.340 obligated to do that, but I'll tolerate it. Sure. I'm not going to, I'm not going to go after you.

00:57:51.060 I'm not going to be hostile to towards you verbally or physically, like do your thing,

00:57:57.640 live your life, but I'm not going to accept it as, as truth with a capital T. And we can have a

00:58:04.100 pretty good discussion about a thousand other things. And we could also have a good discussion

00:58:07.360 about this. If you ask me, but there's certain conversations I'm just not going to have, unless

00:58:13.000 it's a conversation that you want to have. And if a woman who thinks she's a man said, what do you

00:58:18.480 think about this? I would say, I think you're wrong. I think this is not helping you. I think

00:58:27.940 this is not accurate. I think when we teach this kind of thing to our children, we do them more harm

00:58:34.580 than good. These are the things I think you don't have to accept that. And I don't have to accept what

00:58:40.180 you're saying. And that's like the, the, the heart of a mature conversation with people who disagree

00:58:46.480 with you. Yeah, for sure. How would you explain, how would you explain masculinity? And that might

00:58:54.120 be insightful. Well, what's your, yeah. Yeah. Well, your definition of masculinity be. So there's so

00:59:00.980 many things floating around. So let's talk about this. Okay. This is important. So what does it mean to

00:59:07.640 be a man? Right? That's a question that a lot of people have heard me ask guests in the past. And

00:59:13.260 that have, I've been asked, well, there's tiers, there's layers, there's levels to it. The first

00:59:18.580 level is you have to be biologically male. Yeah. That's a prerequisite. And I've said that a dozen

00:59:25.880 times or more, you cannot be a man unless you're biologically male period full stop. Now, some people

00:59:33.220 say, well, I know, I know some women who are more masculine than men. Right. But you didn't say are

00:59:38.640 more men than men. You said more masculine. Yeah, that's different. And this is why I talk about it

00:59:45.100 in levels and tiers. So at its fundamental level, a man is a biological male, technically an adult homo

00:59:53.800 sapien male. That's what it is. Okay. Now we have masculinity. What is masculinity? Masculinity is a

01:00:01.580 set of characteristics that are defined by our biology, our makeup, our homeruns, and our chromosomes.

01:00:06.620 That's masculinity. So generally speaking, you can define it as some of the elements and the features

01:00:14.320 being strength, aggression, control, competitiveness. Are they the outward representations of that

01:00:26.880 biology? Correct. Okay. That's exactly what it is. And if you look at most of, of most cultures

01:00:34.220 throughout all of time in history, even in cultures that have not been introduced to each other, if you

01:00:39.420 want to find out more, go look at David Gilmore's work, Manhood in the Making. Most cultures throughout

01:00:47.480 all of time in history have viewed masculinity in a very striking similarity, which means to me that

01:00:52.760 it's not a social construct. It's a biological construct and it's supported societally. As societies, we

01:00:59.540 support those masculine and feminine roles because it works, right? Men are bigger, stronger, faster,

01:01:04.640 generally. So they're the protectors. It's worked. So society says, yes, that guy's bigger,

01:01:10.460 stronger, and faster. So he's the warrior. Yeah. He should be a soldier. Exactly. Yeah. Right. Okay.

01:01:16.800 So we have, so we have male, we have talked about male. We've talked about masculinity,

01:01:23.560 manliness. Let's talk about manliness. What is manliness? That's different than masculinity.

01:01:28.040 Manliness is taking masculinity, those characteristics of strength and aggression and competitiveness and

01:01:35.680 dominance and stoicism and these that we generally equate to masculinity, taking that and using it for

01:01:46.540 productive outcomes. That's manliness. So if I take my aggression and I focus it with a set of skills

01:01:57.500 and tools towards adding value to order of man and making a living and then providing for my family

01:02:06.900 and myself and other people that we support in charitable organizations, that's manliness. I took

01:02:12.020 the raw characteristics and I applied it effectively. And that is what makes me manly. Now a man who

01:02:20.200 takes those characteristics and uses them for, for unproductive activities, like, well, you saw this

01:02:28.700 thing in, in Africa, uh, 300 school, school children abducted girls. That's not manly. That's not manly.

01:02:40.360 That's anything but manly. Okay. They're not using it for productive outcomes. So they're not acting as

01:02:47.200 men. That's men do not males, men. That's the distinction. And that's why I talk about tears,

01:02:54.540 biologically male, masculine characteristics, using them in a manly manner. And that's what makes a man

01:03:01.660 somebody who's biologically male, who has these set of characteristics and uses them for productive

01:03:06.600 and effective outcomes for themselves and the people they have a responsibility for. And that's why

01:03:10.520 we talk about protect, provide, preside. It's using your skillset and your characteristics

01:03:15.900 and your biological makeup to produce effective outcomes to serve other people and yourself

01:03:21.920 effectively. Yeah. And, and I like that because I think for fathers, how I never thought this was

01:03:29.780 important, right? Never thought I'd never even cross my mind that there'd be a reason and or value

01:03:37.780 in me defining what a man was and helping my boys understand that. Right. Never crossed my mind.

01:03:45.800 And now I'm like, Oh my goodness. So critical, so critical. So they know what's where, where they

01:03:53.960 should be going and when they can call themselves a man. And, and recently I was at an event with our

01:04:00.600 family and these moms are like, Oh, our boys are such men. And I was immediately, I was immediately

01:04:06.840 like, no, they're not. Now are they becoming more manly? Sure. They're growing. That's great. They

01:04:13.460 are not men. They still need you to give them right home. They are still takers more than, than

01:04:19.140 providers. You know, like they're not there yet. Don't diminish what it is to be a man by saying all

01:04:25.580 my boys 18 and he's such a man now. No, he's not a man. He actually has to make decisions. He has to

01:04:32.620 take those masculine traits and put them to good use and, and become sovereign before he can even

01:04:40.540 call himself that. And I like that hardened, like, no, you're not yet. Right. Uh, even though it might

01:04:47.220 maybe even sting a young man that, that might be 20 to say he's not a man yet because they should be

01:04:53.620 focused on becoming manly. It's not, it's not based on age because this is why a hundred years

01:04:59.000 ago, uh, when you had, well, here's an example. There's, you remember those, the lodge cast iron

01:05:04.620 skillet that I got you and some of the other guys in iron council. Yeah. So the gentleman that created

01:05:09.080 that, I can't remember his lodge, but I can't remember his, his first name, his father died.

01:05:14.960 If I remember correctly, when he was 15 years old and at 15, he had his mother and he had siblings

01:05:20.300 and he left and he went to Pennsylvania. He started working in Pennsylvania age 15 and he

01:05:25.200 would take his paychecks and he would send his paychecks back to mom and siblings. Then he

01:05:29.540 started working his way down America and he eventually got into South America and did some

01:05:33.220 work there and eventually started migrating back up North and he would send checks to his

01:05:37.220 family to take care of them. He was being manly. He was 15 at 15. Yeah. He would see. So it doesn't

01:05:44.100 have anything to do with age and long story short, he ended up buying the forge and the cast iron

01:05:48.260 and everything else. That that's another story, but he was 15 there. I know 30 year olds that still

01:05:54.600 live in mommy and daddy's basement. That's not manly. That's childlike. That's a boy. That's an

01:06:00.780 adult male. They got that part checked off. They're an adult male. But again, that's why I talk about the

01:06:04.960 tears. And the other thing that we need to address too is there's phrases that we use that support what

01:06:11.000 I'm talking about. One is you're the man of the house now. When dad leaves, he would say that,

01:06:17.980 right? You're the man of the house. What does that mean? That means in my absence, you are to be here

01:06:24.180 and you are to protect the family. You are to look after them. You are to be a steward over them to the

01:06:31.320 degree that you can. That's your responsibility. And as you do that, you are acting in the manly

01:06:37.560 manner, which is why we say you are the man of the house. Same thing with man up. People say don't man up.

01:06:43.140 It's a horrible phrase. Only if you don't understand the framework I just shared.

01:06:46.680 Yeah. Because if you understand the framework and let's say I had my son and he decided to

01:06:51.800 steal something. He's 13 years old and he decided to steal something or to be a sniveling little baby

01:06:57.200 because he had to do something hard. And I said to him, you need to man up.

01:07:03.400 That's exactly right, actually, because men don't steal from other people. That's not manly.

01:07:08.840 There isn't anything manly about that. Okay. If you're being a sniveling little baby

01:07:14.820 in the wake of doing something hard, that's not manly. You need to man up. But also we've given

01:07:20.940 that conversation context. We've had dozens and dozens and dozens of conversations like this.

01:07:26.920 So when I say, Hey, you need to man up. He knows exactly what that means because I've given them

01:07:32.660 context to know what that means. Yeah. I like that. All right. One more question.

01:07:37.880 One more. J flow eight. What would be the main fundamental points you would cover with a group

01:07:43.340 of teenagers ages 10 through 17 on how to become sovereign men? Responsibility.

01:07:50.560 Responsibility and how to make themselves more capable of bearing it. That's it. That's all I

01:07:54.620 would focus on. Yeah. And responsibility for themselves, for themselves. Correct. And other

01:08:00.020 people. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Other people as well. Start, start with themselves and then start

01:08:05.000 expanding out. Yeah. A couple of years ago when I would drop my kids off cause we homeschool now,

01:08:09.540 but when I would drop my kids off at school, my two oldest boys in particular, I would say

01:08:12.720 we would talk about on the way to school, things that I would, I would want them to do and how I

01:08:16.940 want them to behave. And one of the things, even at, they must've been 11 and eight at the time,

01:08:22.740 11 and seven, somewhere in there, 10 and seven. Uh, I would say, you know, look after yourselves

01:08:29.640 and for those who can't do that for themselves. Cause again, that's taking responsibility for

01:08:36.320 yourself. Look after yourself, take care of yourself, protect yourself. Don't expect someone

01:08:41.180 else to take care of you. Yeah. Right. And look after and protect those who can't do it for

01:08:46.040 themselves because that's part of what it means to be manly. We just talked about that.

01:08:51.520 Yeah. So I would talk about, I would only and exclusively talk about responsibility. I would

01:08:58.720 talk about how to make yourself more capable of bearing responsibility. And I would talk about

01:09:03.260 why it's in their best interest to be responsible. Cause sometimes when you think about responsibility,

01:09:08.240 especially as a young man, it's hard to equate that to being something that's either fun or enjoyable

01:09:13.700 or, or good for you. Cause you're just taking on the burden. Um, I remember years and years ago when I

01:09:20.500 was in scouting, I took our, our young men in our, our neighborhood on, uh, I want to say it was a

01:09:26.620 three or four day. It must've been three day hike. And we hiked, if I remember right, it must've been

01:09:32.500 seven or eight miles down into this, this Valley. And then we're going to hike the next day, seven or

01:09:36.800 eight miles out the next day. And then we're going to stay at the cabin the third night. And we get down

01:09:42.280 to the Valley the first night. And, uh, and they said, Hey, uh, what, what time is a bedtime?

01:09:51.540 And I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, well, what time do we have to be in bed? I'm like,

01:09:57.120 I don't know when, like whatever you want. And they're like, well, all of our other scout leaders

01:10:01.400 give us a curfew. And I said, how old are you? And I will 14. Like, yeah, you're, you're old enough

01:10:08.120 to make your own decisions about when you need to go to bed. I said, here's what you need to know.

01:10:13.240 We're getting up at six o'clock and we're having breakfast. And then we're leaving at seven.

01:10:19.460 That's, that's what you need to know. That's all you need to know. And then I'll allow you to make

01:10:23.380 your own decision about when you think you can go to bed. They stayed up all night long. I heard

01:10:29.120 them all night. I'm like, man, these boys are gonna be tired. And you know, they probably went to bed at

01:10:33.900 four or five o'clock in the morning or whatever. And I woke them up at six.

01:10:38.120 And they made breakfast and we left at seven and they complained the whole way. And we made a motto

01:10:45.100 and our motto was, well, our official motto was, I will find a way or make one. Our unofficial

01:10:51.100 motto was do whatever you want and suffer the consequences.

01:10:57.560 And, and these, man, we had such a great time. They were miserable that second day. And guess what

01:11:04.100 time they went to bed that second night they went to bed on time that night. Yeah. Yeah. And a couple

01:11:10.320 of them told their parents and one parent in particular called me, I can't believe you didn't

01:11:14.380 get them a curfew. I'm like, I can't believe you have to give your 14 year old a curfew. Like that's

01:11:19.920 your fault. Not mine. You're the parent. I have them for two days. And you think I, you think I

01:11:24.480 undid what you did in two days, which years at your fault. Yeah. Anyways, good times. We're had

01:11:32.960 by all a little tired, a little miserable. I don't know how I got on that, but, um, Oh,

01:11:38.320 responsibility and young men. Yeah. Teaching responsibility and also allow them to suffer

01:11:43.340 the consequences of their, uh, of their decisions, their decisions. Exactly. And when they make poor

01:11:48.960 decisions, they have to feel the weight of it because what I could have done is I could have

01:11:53.400 said, Oh, well, they went to bed at four or five. So they're probably tired. So maybe we'll wake up at,

01:11:57.440 you know, eight or nine. That'll give them a few more hours. Nope. Uh, I told them, I told them

01:12:03.480 what time we're going to be waking up. They knew who was going to be making breakfast. They knew what

01:12:07.440 time we were leaving. And that was the standard. It was not misunderstood. They made a poor decision

01:12:13.960 and they suffered for it. And it was good. Totally. It was good for them. I'd like to point this out though.

01:12:18.960 That you sacrificed to do what was best for the boys. I actually think if you use your example,

01:12:26.880 I think most parents would have liked to get up at seven. So then that way they could drop the hammer

01:12:33.440 a little bit on consequence, but, but they don't because you were up all night. Listen to them,

01:12:39.920 Chad, you're tired. They put a frog in my sleeping bag. Exactly. So you're like, I'm going to,

01:12:45.820 I'm going to sleep in and I'm going to do what's convenient for me because these little shits

01:12:50.520 stayed up all night and I'll just yell at them in the morning. Right. And, and, and, and we're

01:12:56.000 unwilling to sacrifice and do the difficult thing for us to allow them to learn the consequences of

01:13:02.660 their decisions. That is totally true. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's what I would have

01:13:07.560 done. I'm not going to say I haven't done that, but I, every once in a while I get it right. And that

01:13:13.040 was one of the moments I got right. And I paid for it too. Cause then I had to get up early and

01:13:16.780 I was tired. You're tired. Yeah, for sure. Well, and that's a perfect segue because, and I, you know,

01:13:23.460 we didn't talk about this, but I'm assuming it's okay that I mentioned it possibly a legacy event this

01:13:29.760 year. Yeah. I think we're going to do one in the fall. We're going to do a, a main event, which is

01:13:34.340 our, our bigger men's event and then a legacy father son event as well. So I'll get you guys the

01:13:39.260 details on that. Kip, I do. Can I close this one out with just a couple of asks where you normally

01:13:44.460 go? Yeah, for sure. Guys, I need three things from you. So if you've ever gotten any value from,

01:13:49.740 from what it is we're doing just take a couple of minutes and do three things. Number one,

01:13:53.640 leave us a rating review right now. I think we have 5,700 ratings and reviews. I would like to double

01:13:59.380 that. I'd like to get up to 10,000. And I think we could do that fairly quickly. If you guys go in,

01:14:05.120 just take a couple of minutes, particularly on iTunes, wherever you're listening, but iTunes is

01:14:09.760 best and just leave a very quick rating and review. It goes a very, you would be surprised how,

01:14:15.520 how much it makes a difference. So go in, leave us your, your five-star review. Tell us what you

01:14:20.440 think about the show. If you've gotten any value, do that. Number one, number two, just take a screenshot

01:14:24.400 on your phone. You're listening to this right now. It's likely on your phone. Just screenshot it,

01:14:28.960 post it on Instagram and tag me at Ryan Mickler and Kip at Kip Sorensen, two P's and it's S E N,

01:14:37.580 correct?

01:14:37.780 E N.

01:14:38.380 Danish.

01:14:39.040 S E N.

01:14:39.480 Yep.

01:14:40.000 So do that and then make sure you're following me on Instagram. There's some very specific reasons

01:14:45.000 that I'm asking for this. Obviously it's going to go help promote the visibility of the show,

01:14:49.980 get this information into the hearts and minds of more men, which we need and women,

01:14:54.640 a lot of women listen as well, and they need to hear this too.

01:14:56.920 Uh, but there are some other reasons. And so that I'm just gonna leave it there. So I would ask

01:15:02.140 that you go ahead and take care of that. That would mean a lot to us in the movement. That's

01:15:06.600 all I've got. Awesome. All right, brother. I appreciate you guys. Thanks for the questions

01:15:10.960 today. Keep them coming on Instagram is where we're going to ask that you ask those questions.

01:15:15.740 We'll make a post and you can ask in the comments. Uh, and then we'll be back, uh, next week. Got a very

01:15:20.300 cool, cool podcast lined up for next week. It's going to be released. So I think you guys are

01:15:25.000 going to like it. So make sure you subscribe as well. All right, guys, go out there, take action

01:15:28.480 and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:15:33.140 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:15:36.820 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 10, 2021

What it Means to be a Man, Finding What Drives You, and Getting Out of a Funk ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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