Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:17.020 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.720 you can call yourself a man. All right, brother. What's up, man? It's good to see you back again.

00:00:27.920 Did we do, last week we did it together. I don't know. It's like hit or miss these days.

00:00:32.340 No, Sean and I was last week. Yep. That's right. That's why I didn't remember it.

00:00:36.860 Yeah. It wasn't very memorable. It was a great conversation.

00:00:40.280 No, I get lots of good feedback when you guys do it. So, more actually when you guys do it than

00:00:45.900 when I do it. So, thinking about just bringing you guys in full time. I'm sure it's just guys

00:00:49.900 want to make sure that they're keeping you updated in regards to how it went. So, they just speak up

00:00:54.720 more when you're out of the pocket. Well, and no, I didn't say I get more good feedback when you

00:00:59.780 get feedback. Well, that aligns to my comment nonetheless. Well, man, it's good to see you.

00:01:07.820 I told you we'll start it off this way. I got my like first real injury at Jiu-Jitsu.

00:01:16.480 Rib? No, I've had some rib issues. I don't consider nothing serious. I actually, here's the weird

00:01:22.760 thing about a rib injury. Like I've had some ribs pop out right here on my chest. I legit like three

00:01:28.100 or four weeks ago thought I was having a heart attack. I was like, what in the world is like

00:01:34.080 this low-key heart attack? And I'm like, what in the world is going on? Like what?

00:01:38.640 Yeah. I'm getting sharp pain in my chest. Yeah.

00:01:41.100 Yes. And it was on my left side and I'm like, I don't, is this a heart attack? Like I didn't know.

00:01:46.820 I'm like, I'm pretty good shape. I'm fairly young. I'm 41. I'm like, can't be a heart attack.

00:01:51.640 Like I'm sitting here contemplating whether or not it's a heart attack. It can't be.

00:01:55.880 Yeah. It was a rib that had popped out on that side. Yeah. So I think that's when you're rolling

00:02:01.920 with a 270 pound silverback gorilla three to four nights a week. It's bound to happen.

00:02:08.980 Yeah. You're like, Oh, that feels good right there. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the injury?

00:02:13.940 Well, I don't know if you can see it very well. Oh yeah. That's pretty good.

00:02:17.800 Yeah. So from a, a bicep tear, it's a bicep. It's a bicep tear yesterday. And I was talking

00:02:27.680 with, I actually went to the ER cause it was bad yesterday when it happened. Yeah. So I went to

00:02:33.160 the ER and the doc's like, okay, you know, here's a cut, like pull my hand, push it this

00:02:37.440 way. That kind of thing. And he's like, let's do an x-ray. I'm like, I don't think a tear

00:02:41.660 is going to show up on an x-ray. He's like, I know we just want to make sure like structurally

00:02:44.680 bone related. Nothing's, nothing's out of place. Nothing's where it shouldn't be. I'm

00:02:48.380 like, okay, we'll do that. And I, he, he got it done. He's like, good news. You know,

00:02:52.060 that's not the problem. And he thinks it's on the muscle head itself, not any tendons

00:02:56.180 or, or ligaments. So that's good. But bro, like from here, like my pec all the way down

00:03:04.180 to here is just sorry. And it was like, no, it's, it is funny. It's, it was like totally

00:03:11.920 deformed. And I was sitting at dinner with my family last night and I'm like, check it

00:03:15.900 out, check out my guns. And this one was like huge. And the kids are like, Oh, but it hurts

00:03:25.100 today. And so this sucks. I'm out for three weeks, man. Now from an arm bar, just didn't

00:03:31.240 tap. It wasn't an arm bar actually. So, okay. Yeah. So I was, I was training with Brian

00:03:36.600 Littlefield. Um, he's, he heads up Jocko fuels for those of you guys who don't know.

00:03:42.040 And, and he was inside control on me. So I was on my back and I reached out and I grabbed

00:03:48.800 his foot, like, like, like reached under, grabbed his foot and I trapped this arm and

00:03:55.340 I pushed him and I thought, okay, if I push him, he's going to push back on me and I'm

00:04:00.200 going to sweep them because I got this foot. I'm going to lift it up. I'm going to trap this

00:04:04.080 arm. Like, that's how it's going to work. That's how it's going to go. Yeah. And so

00:04:07.640 I trap everything, tighten everything, clamp everything down and I push and he doesn't

00:04:12.040 push back. Cause he knows, right? Like he's a black belt. He knows. So he doesn't push 0.99

00:04:16.660 back. And I just laugh. And he's like, what? I'm like, bro, you're supposed to push back

00:04:20.600 when I do that. And, and he's like, yeah, well, I'm not going to do that. Obviously any, a

00:04:26.440 lesser man would have pushed back. You wouldn't keep, you would have pushed back. I would

00:04:31.360 have pushed back. Yeah. And then I would have swept your ass anyway. So, so we're

00:04:36.660 laughing about it. And then I just tried to muscle it, muscle it. That's what I

00:04:41.100 did. Yeah. I just tried to muscle it and my arm was out here and I just, and I just

00:04:45.720 went and I'm like, Oh, I'm done. And it hurts so bad. I got a little nauseous and that was

00:04:52.820 my first training back after a week. I've been gone for a week. Uh, this is my first

00:04:59.360 training back. So now I'm out for two to three weeks. I had a friend of mine who's

00:05:03.980 a chiropractor, but he does a lot of like muscle neurological connection between the

00:05:08.740 muscle, that kind of stuff. He came over this morning, like, Hey bro, I need to come

00:05:11.320 over and look at this. And he walked through some stretches and exercises and did some

00:05:15.620 of that. That's like scraping to get some of that fascia worked out. And so, yeah.

00:05:21.340 Frustrating sucks. Yeah. Rehab it. Well, I mean, uh, one of my, one of my favorite guys

00:05:26.940 to roll with Jason South, like his, is it his left bicep? His left bicep is all like

00:05:32.800 screwed up permanently. Yeah. Like it's, it's a nice peak on the one side. The other

00:05:39.020 one's like normal. And it was like, what's wrong with your arm? He's like, well, I think

00:05:42.980 I tore something and I never like fixed it. I went to the ER. I went to the ER. I called

00:05:49.980 my buddy immediately. I'm like, I'm going to go to the orthopedist. Like I don't want to

00:05:53.840 have anything torn and not get it fixed. Yeah. But I think it's okay. I'm going to

00:06:00.140 nurse it. I'm going to, bro, I'm going to nurse it for all it's worth. My wife's going 0.98

00:06:03.820 to be giving me massages and get a man cold while you're at it. Yeah. You can noodle soup 1.00

00:06:08.300 and whatnot. Maybe get a little nookie here and there to make it feel better. We'll be

00:06:13.120 good. Yeah. You'll be fine. Yeah. I told her today. Actually, I told her today, I said, Hey,

00:06:18.760 just so you know, can I tell you what the doctor said who came over? And she's like, yeah,

00:06:22.500 and I said he recommended having sex immediately as quickly as possible. Yeah. Yeah. To get blood

00:06:29.360 flow into my bicep better. Yeah. She didn't fall for it. Oh man. It's funny. All right. Oh yeah. Go

00:06:38.520 ahead. No, I was just going to say there was years back. Some guys may know about this, but someone

00:06:45.200 took like, um, uh, what's the web MD, which is like, don't ever go on web MD. You're, you're,

00:06:52.060 I know, I know. But, but, but back in the day, let's just assume web MD was a valid source of,

00:06:57.240 uh, medical advice. Someone took their website and duplicated it. So it looks exactly like web MD.

00:07:05.220 And then they did an entire like news article on how to reduce breast cancer. And, and it was like

00:07:14.880 this whole survey that they performed and they, they determined that, um, performing flatio at least

00:07:22.500 like a couple of times a week article. It is so hilarious. Like you're not like a hundred percent

00:07:31.420 shirt. Like as you're reading, you're like, is this legit? I need that article in my life.

00:07:36.140 I know. I immediately like, honey, you got to check this out. This is like amazing. Yeah.

00:07:41.160 But they don't look at the URL because the URLs, of course, like some random thing.

00:07:45.920 Let's, let's find that guys. We're going to do, Hey, look, I've talked about it for a long time.

00:07:51.020 We're all about providing you the resources and conversations and all this kind of stuff to

00:07:55.580 help you become a better man. We are going to track that link down and, uh, we'll get it to you guys.

00:08:00.300 So stay tuned to you guys. We're, we're, we're standing for you to become better and to improve

00:08:04.760 your lives. Yeah, that's right. That's right. All right, man. Well, let's get into the questions

00:08:10.540 today. What do we got? Yeah. So we're fielding questions today from our Facebook group. That's

00:08:15.080 a facebook.com slash group slash order a man. Our first question from our fellow brother, Dom

00:08:20.700 Frenchoni at the end of every, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's it wrong.

00:08:26.200 Whoa. What did you say?

00:08:31.240 French, French, Shoney. No, it's Italian. Oh man. What is it? See, Sion, French, 0.67

00:08:37.180 Yon, French, Yon. I think it's actually French, Yoni. It's not French, Yoni. Yeah. That's

00:08:43.660 Italian. Less, less. Okay. It's not shy, Dom. Dom, you know, I love you. So don't take it 1.00

00:08:49.640 personal, man. He's Jack too. Dom's Jack. You got to watch out for Dom. All right. At the end

00:08:56.600 of every interview. I would definitely tear my bicep if I was rolling with him. Yeah. He trains

00:08:59.640 jiu-jitsu, by the way. Yeah. I'm a killer. And we've gotten this question before, but it's been

00:09:04.480 a while. So at the end of every interview, Mr. Mickler used to ask, what does it mean to be a man?

00:09:10.640 From all the various answers, what definition have you come up with for this question? How do you

00:09:16.760 articulate the definition of what it means to be a man? John Eldridge's answer was my favorite,

00:09:23.440 by the way. I don't remember what he said, but I imagine it was powerful because he's somebody I

00:09:28.560 really admire and respect. Let me back up on the conversation, the question a little bit. So a lot

00:09:33.880 of you guys have actually asked me why I don't ask that question anymore. And so I wanted to address

00:09:40.140 that. I made a decision a long time ago. This is probably three years ago, maybe or so that I

00:09:46.840 stopped asking that question. Don't quote me on that. You guys will probably go back and check it.

00:09:50.980 So maybe I'm way off, but I didn't want to ask my guests prescripted questions because I thought that

00:09:57.980 was cheating or it didn't do a service to my guest. It certainly didn't improve my ability to have a

00:10:05.900 conversation. Because think about it like this, Kip. Let's say you want to talk to women or a 1.00

00:10:13.080 coworker or a friend. Do you have preset questions when you go have those conversations with those

00:10:20.040 people? Yeah. Not if you're being genuine about it. No. I mean, you might have some topics you want

00:10:24.700 to hit on. If I'm talking to you, Kip, I might want to talk about leadership. I might want to talk

00:10:29.660 about how to build a team, resource, human resource development, that sort of thing. But I'm not

00:10:35.180 going to have like a scripted question that I'm going to ask you if we're at dinner. Right.

00:10:39.300 And it's the same question that you asked Joe Schmoe. It's actually quite an insult really

00:10:43.660 to be frank. Yeah. I really think it is. I think I wouldn't say insulting because I am genuinely

00:10:49.340 interested, but I do believe I will, I will use this word. I think it does a disservice to the person

00:10:56.160 you're talking to if you're asking the same question. So there's a lot of podcasts out there

00:10:59.860 who will ask like the 10 same questions. What a missed opportunity. Why would you ask

00:11:06.380 you, Kip? Why would I ask you the same 10 questions that I asked Terry Cruz, who we just released

00:11:11.780 yesterday? Such a weird, it's like a weird thing to ask you guys the same exact question.

00:11:17.780 That's lazy. Yeah. And, and I, and just as feedback, right? Like I, I felt like that question

00:11:24.440 was a great question, even a, a good consistent question, depending on the guest. Right. But if

00:11:31.840 you had, and he's just on my mind, cause I just read his latest book, John Gary Bishop, but like,

00:11:37.120 if you had John Gary Bishop on and you're like deep dived into like relationship psychology or whatever,

00:11:44.120 and it's, and you're evolving the conversation, it's flowing. And then all of a sudden go,

00:11:48.600 all right. Give me your definition of what it means to be a man. He'd be like, we weren't even

00:11:53.740 talking about that for the last hour. Yeah. Why would you force and now pigeonhole me into some

00:11:59.760 weird thing that's unrelated to what we've been talking about? You're exactly right. So as I don't

00:12:04.940 consider myself a podcaster necessarily, I do podcast, right? I'm a conversationalist.

00:12:11.420 Hmm. There's a distinction. Yeah. I'm having conversations. I love that question, but more

00:12:19.600 importantly than that question is I like the answer to that question from my guests. So what I try to do

00:12:26.740 as a conversationalist is I try to draw out the answer to that question throughout the entire podcast.

00:12:35.640 So when I'm having a conversation with somebody like Terry Cruz, who just released, or, uh, Tim tape,

00:12:40.920 Tebow who came out about three or four weeks ago, the question is the answers are it's there. It's,

00:12:48.000 it's an hour long plus of the answer. You just have to listen for it. You know, when team Tim Tebow

00:12:54.320 starts off with, yeah, we were helping these, these, uh, these, these ladies in Africa who,

00:13:01.440 and this is how we started off the conversation. A, uh, a husband or a boyfriend of this woman

00:13:08.040 gave her enough money to poison their child, their newborn. And instead she used that money to get 1.00

00:13:15.100 where she needed to get, to put this baby in what can only be described as a, a, a baby post office

00:13:24.420 box or something like, so that somebody could get that baby anonymously and, and keep it alive.

00:13:30.680 What does it mean to be a man, bro? He just answered the fricking question. Yeah. Like be

00:13:37.540 capable of serving other people so that when you encounter these situations, you can do what's

00:13:42.960 right. What, what if I said, Hey, what does it mean to be a man? It's like he answered the question

00:13:48.920 for an hour. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So, but like in the spirit of the question, let's answer it though.

00:13:54.660 Right. So when I started the podcast seven years ago, March of 2015, I started with the motto,

00:14:03.980 protect, provide, preside. And if you guys are wondering where that came from, I want to be

00:14:10.160 really clear. That's not my idea. It came from two different sources. One is from David Gilmore.

00:14:15.320 He wrote a book called man in the making. It's that blue one right there. That's one of my favorite

00:14:19.420 resources. It's that one right there. It's called man. Uh, excuse me. Yeah. Man in the making or man.

00:14:26.420 No, excuse me. Correct. Manhood. It's manhood in the making by David Gilmore. It's that blue one

00:14:31.380 right there. It looks like an old, um, you remember like trapper keepers and like when you're a kid,

00:14:39.200 like it had the athletes, like the black and white athletes on the front of it or whatever, like those,

00:14:43.480 those folders. You remember those? Yeah. Yeah. It looks like that on the front manhood of the making by

00:14:48.800 David Gilmore. If you're looking for an entertaining read, don't read that book.

00:14:54.520 If you, if you need to fall asleep, yeah, read that book. If you want to read like 10 pages and

00:15:00.060 fall asleep, you're going to get a good 10 pages and then fall asleep. And it's going to take you

00:15:03.800 two years to read it. Yeah. But it is really good. And he talks about the three Ps of masculinity. So

00:15:11.560 what this guy did is he went around and he interviewed and he lived with, and he, uh, had conversations

00:15:17.840 with tribes and cultures here currently. And then throughout history, he researched these tribes.

00:15:24.720 And what he found is that these tribes and cultures, some of which have never been introduced

00:15:29.280 to each other. So I'm going to blow up the idea that masculinity is a social construct right here.

00:15:33.300 Yep. Yep. I'm not going to David Gilmore is, and I'm going to say he kind of, he makes that stance,

00:15:38.900 right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's been studying and researching these tribes and these cultures,

00:15:45.460 some of which have never been introduced to each other. And they all have striking similarities

00:15:49.780 between the way in which masculinity is viewed. And that what that tells us is that masculinity

00:15:55.380 is not a social construct, but a biological construct, because if it was social,

00:16:02.060 it seems strange that all of these tribes and cultures believe very similarly about masculinity

00:16:08.080 when they've never been introduced to each other. So he makes the case that throughout history

00:16:14.160 and throughout time that, that manliness or masculinity, then there's a distinction that we can talk about

00:16:22.020 that. Cause I actually addressed that in my upcoming book, a little, little plug there, a little selfish

00:16:27.140 plug there, uh, is that it always has a striking similarity. And that is what he says is protect.

00:16:34.840 So there's, when it, when it comes to manliness protection, provide, and the third P that he uses is not preside.

00:16:45.240 It's not leadership. It's procreation. So he protect, provide, procreate. That's how, that's how somebody

00:16:53.000 looks at it as a man. Now I contend with that. I contend with a third point because I know a lot of men

00:16:59.380 out there who I would consider men who, for whatever reason are quite physically incapable

00:17:05.300 of procreating. Yeah. Or choose not to, it doesn't, but it doesn't take away.

00:17:09.820 That's different to me. That's actually different.

00:17:11.720 You think it takes away if they're capable and they choose not to?

00:17:14.820 I do. Yeah, I do. I really do. Um,

00:17:18.080 that's because the level of, of growth and opportunity to preside in the importance of

00:17:26.320 providing that, that shows up due to procreation or yeah, I mean, yes, sure. And I'm going to take

00:17:34.360 a more spiritual slash religious stance on this. Yeah. So you don't have to agree with me, but here's

00:17:40.100 my stance. And I'm always going to share my opinion. I know a lot of you guys are going to disagree,

00:17:43.840 but God has commanded us to multiply and replenish the earth.

00:17:50.500 Would you agree Kip with that? I agree. Yeah. And I think 50, 60, 70% of the people listening

00:17:56.660 would agree with that. We have been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. Now I know

00:18:01.880 there's a, there's a conflict there because some, I'm, what I'm doing right now is I'm appealing to

00:18:06.840 authority. I'm appealing to God. And some of you guys don't believe in that authority and okay.

00:18:12.300 I don't agree. You don't agree. That's fine. Whatever. But that's my belief is that we have

00:18:18.360 been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. And so if you have the capability,

00:18:23.720 you need to bring sons and daughters into this world and raise them in righteousness. That's what

00:18:30.200 we as men are called to do. Now there's situations where that can't happen physically. Um, but I think,

00:18:40.300 and I, I have people in my life, close friends who've chosen not to bring people,

00:18:44.860 children into this world. What a freaking travesty. Well, and, and, and I'm curious what

00:18:52.520 your thoughts are because I, I, I'm probably a little too logical in my, in my religious beliefs,

00:18:59.400 right? I, like, I, I hear something and instead of just going faith, God said so, or whatever I go,

00:19:05.300 will, you know, because there's probably some logical reason. And what he wanted was,

00:19:08.560 you know what I mean? I try to understand. Right. And I actually think that probably one of the

00:19:13.980 greatest reasons for that commandment, I shouldn't say the greatest, but, but one of the important

00:19:21.640 aspects of that idea of procreating is the opportunity for growth that would only exist

00:19:28.560 through becoming a parent. And, and that's how I feel is the biggest missed opportunity. Don't get

00:19:36.700 me wrong. Having children and them having a life is, is highly important and beneficial,

00:19:42.440 but who I were, who I was able to become through the process of becoming a father

00:19:49.120 is, would have been impossible otherwise. And I just don't think there's a love,

00:19:56.080 there's a level of growth that's just will never be available to you without fatherhood.

00:19:59.700 I agree. And so here's what I would say, and I'm not saying this in any sort of mean spiritedness

00:20:06.060 towards what you're saying at all, or anybody who believes that. Cause I actually believe that too,

00:20:09.900 like a hundred percent, but you're saying like, there's no level of growth I could have outside

00:20:13.480 of being a father. There is different types of growth, but this is something different. It's very

00:20:17.400 unique and it's, it's very powerful. So I'm not disagreeing with you. But what I would say

00:20:24.240 is that's a selfish motive. Yeah. Like if you're having kids just so you can grow. Yeah. Right.

00:20:30.820 Fair enough. Yeah. Totally. There's, there's more to it. And that is that we have a responsibility.

00:20:35.020 So I'm, I'm just pulling up some, some stuff here. I just typed in how many Christians are in the world.

00:20:42.880 And, and you could actually, you could actually make a case for other religions who believe in the

00:20:48.800 same concept that aren't Christian. Yeah. And right here, it says around the world more,

00:20:53.780 this is from open doors, usa.org. I have not vetted this site guys. I don't. So I just pulled

00:21:00.780 this off of Google. All right. It says around the world, more than 360 million Christians live in

00:21:04.440 places where they experience high levels of persecution. Just for following Jesus, that's

00:21:09.780 one in seven believers worldwide. So it's probably more than that. Let's see what else we got here.

00:21:15.780 Well, one in seven, right? You're close to more. It's gotta be more than that. It's gotta be more than that.

00:21:20.080 Yeah. How many Christians in the world today? This one comes from world population review. 1.00

00:21:24.940 Again, I have not vetted this. All right. Yeah. We're just looking at it. And it says here that

00:21:29.340 approximately 2.3 billion people practice some form of Christianity globally. 3.2 billion,

00:21:37.580 2.3 billion, 2.3. And that means that about one, I'm quoting here, about one third of the world's

00:21:45.380 total population. Total population is Christian. And then if you were to add Muslim and you were to 0.91

00:21:50.820 add Buddhist and you were able to add some of these others, it would probably be more than I would say

00:21:57.280 70, 80%. So yeah. And I, I have a good, good stat here. So Christianity 2.3, Islam 1.9, Hinduism 1.6.

00:22:08.140 So you're starting to get into five, 6 million out of, or billion, excuse me, out of eight.

00:22:15.580 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Look, I'm not going to profess to know what these religions teach, 0.97

00:22:20.500 but I would imagine in a lot of ways that are very similar to Christianity. Okay. And then that is

00:22:24.800 that there's a higher power. And what we do here matters in the, in the, in eternity, you know,

00:22:31.600 like I imagine it's something like that. I'm not a, I'm not a scholar. I don't, I don't study

00:22:36.200 theology. It's not what I do. I can't even get my religion straight half the time.

00:22:43.420 Yeah. You're still figuring that one out for the rest of my life. Yeah. But here's what I would say.

00:22:50.760 What better way for, let's just take Christianity for example. And I know there's a lot of people who

00:22:56.720 aren't Christian, but let's just take this for example. Look, here's what I'd say. If you're listening to

00:23:01.300 this podcast and you aren't Christian, you probably still believe with 95% of what Kip,

00:23:06.380 you and I share on this podcast. Yeah. You just don't call it religion. You call it just like

00:23:11.160 good, good old, just being a good person to live by. Yeah. Right. Like I'm a Nebraska, you know,

00:23:16.060 like corn fed, like hard ass worker. I don't believe in God, but I believe in morality and I want to do

00:23:23.540 good and I want to be good people. And I want to work hard. Like, okay, cool. Like we're on the same page.

00:23:29.640 You can call it whatever you want. This is what I call it. Yeah. All right. Let's just take

00:23:34.960 Christianity according to these statistics, 2.38. So we'll just call it two and a half billion people

00:23:39.960 on the planet. And let's say each of you had four kids and you raised them in righteousness

00:23:46.820 righteousness and you taught them right from wrong. And you taught them about morality and hard work

00:23:53.480 and doing good and serving other people and being good women and being good men. And you raised them

00:24:01.480 righteously. And let's say 30% of them fell away. I think that's high, but let's say 30% of them fell

00:24:07.280 away because they got wrapped up in the doctrine of popular culture. Yeah. That means you have 8 billion.

00:24:13.640 Well, let's be fair. 6.6 billion people knew on the planet in the next generation who had a mother 0.71

00:24:23.960 and a father who believed in doing right, who believed in doing good, who believed that there

00:24:29.060 was more to this world than what we do today currently or over the next 70 or 80 years. And

00:24:34.660 that what we do now will create the results in our lives for eternity. There is no better way to fix

00:24:45.100 culture than to be a righteous individual, to find a righteous woman and to have a shit ton of kids

00:24:55.240 together and raise them in righteousness. This is how we win the cultural war. You know what? And I'll tell

00:25:01.940 you why because the people who don't believe like we believe don't have kids. That's true. They don't have

00:25:10.240 kids. They hate kids. They abort kids. They kill children. And so the best way to change the culture is

00:25:21.760 to be a righteous man, to marry and bond with for life and eternity, a righteous woman, and then to work

00:25:31.240 together to raise three to five righteous children. And if billions of us did that game over game over

00:25:44.420 because those people aren't having kids. So that one, bro, that's going to piss a lot of people off

00:25:53.420 that one right there. I just lost half of our followers or a third of our followers right there

00:25:58.660 and just gained a bunch more. So it's, it's all good. I'm telling you, like, I know here's one

00:26:04.740 phrase that a lot of people like to say is they like to say, um, I don't agree with everything you

00:26:09.560 say, but I agree with 90. Well, you know what? That might've fallen outside the 10%, but I don't care 0.92

00:26:13.600 because I'm going to keep sharing it and I'm going to keep professing it.

00:26:17.840 What do you think is the, the, what rubs people wrong in that statement is the idea of procreation

00:26:23.580 or the reference to Christianity and religion so much? I think the reference to Christianity

00:26:29.080 is going to rub people wrong. Um, I, I, I believe that there's going to be a lot of people that have,

00:26:34.980 I said three to five is the, is the number I use. There's probably going to be a lot of people who

00:26:38.780 have two kids are like, well, but I'm righteous. Okay. Let's come on now. Yeah. Okay.

00:26:43.880 Like now you're just like, well, how about my, how about my sister that hasn't gotten married yet?

00:26:48.840 You know, all the exceptions to the rule. Yeah. We're going to find the exceptions.

00:26:52.820 Look, I'm not saying somebody, look, I'm not going to name names. I have close friends,

00:26:57.500 very successful friends, friends that you would recognize friends that have been on the podcast

00:27:01.080 who don't have kids. I have those people. I don't, I don't think less. I think they're great people.

00:27:06.480 I'm just saying if it were up to me, I would like command those people to have children. I'm like,

00:27:13.900 you need to have like 10 fricking kids. We just need to get them that article I was talking about

00:27:19.320 earlier. Yeah. Well, Kip, I don't know if you know this, but, um, that's not how kids are made.

00:27:26.300 That's how, that's how you get started though. I mean, it's fun. I ain't gonna lie. It's fun.

00:27:32.800 It's a good time. You don't bring kids in the world that way though. Hey, I asked this. I know

00:27:37.800 how to make kids. I got it down. Okay. Well, true. Fair enough. But don't be, none of this

00:27:44.000 disinformation, misinformation kind of stuff. Yeah. Next week's episode, we're going to cover

00:27:50.020 how to best make kids. That's right. What was the fricking question? What did this guy ask?

00:27:56.940 It was Dom and he was, um, Holy dumb still on Dom about how to talk about what does it mean to be a

00:28:04.300 man? There you go. Procreate. We got it done. David Gilmore says protection, provision, procreation.

00:28:12.460 I do. I disagree. I don't think procreation necessarily makes you a man. Cause there's

00:28:17.120 people who can't have kids. I get that. Yep. Try to bring this back into, into leading through

00:28:24.040 impact and presiding is critical. And this comes from, uh, my religion, which is Latter-day Saint

00:28:31.760 Mormon. A lot of you guys are familiar with rather than Latter-day Saint. And if you go back and you

00:28:37.300 read a, uh, if you just type in Google, a family proclamation, just type family proclamation.

00:28:43.040 If you're interested and you can see that it gives a decree about the role of men and the role of women

00:28:50.200 and the role of men is very clear to protect. And they use these terms verbatim to protect,

00:28:55.880 provide, and preside. And that's where those three come from.

00:28:59.580 Which I love when that came out, because I don't know what your thought was, but when they came out

00:29:04.880 that proclamation, you read it, you're like, um, okay. Like no brainer. Why is this necessary for

00:29:12.400 us to document? Why? Like, it's like, who would have ever thought that like 10 years later that

00:29:22.580 that thing would be maybe considered controversial. And at the time you're like, uh, yeah, duh.

00:29:28.380 Thank you, Captain Obvious. People would put it like in a, in a, in a frame in their house. I'm

00:29:33.640 like, you might as well just say, you know, black and white pitcher, you know what I mean? Right.

00:29:39.160 It's a no brainer, right? Right. Not anymore. It's not a brainer anymore. Yeah. So go check that

00:29:46.440 out. And I'm not trying to convert you or anything. I don't care. It doesn't bother me. I am.

00:29:50.440 Kip is Kip's our missionary. Were you a missionary? No. And I'm probably for missionaries. No. And I'm

00:29:58.020 probably like, maybe that's the other disclaimer. We're not proper representations. I don't think.

00:30:05.420 Yeah. But I don't think we're saying anything that is, is controversial and in, in our, in our

00:30:12.880 doctrine or even just Christianity in general. Like, I don't think we're saying anything that

00:30:17.560 would be questioned. Yeah. Anyways, just go, just go take a look at, have a read and, and just

00:30:22.700 read, read it from a secular viewpoint, even, you know, just, just read it and ask yourself,

00:30:28.080 like if this came from, you know, Joe Smith, your neighbor next door, would you say, oh yeah,

00:30:32.800 that's, that's pretty good. I actually like that. If it came from me and you knew nothing about my

00:30:37.380 religious preference, would you say, yeah, that's, that's actually pretty good. Totally. Like just read

00:30:43.360 it from a, from an objective standpoint and see if you do agree with it. That is such

00:30:47.540 a strong side of sight sign of maturity. I was, I was actually having this conversation with my

00:30:54.540 son the, the other day about, about church, right. And going to church. And it's like, man,

00:31:01.920 like if you cannot, and, and I, I would put this in any religion, it doesn't matter if you can't go

00:31:09.080 to a church, even an opposing religion and not sit down and be edified in some way and learn and grow.

00:31:16.800 You are, I don't know. What's the, I don't want to judge you too harshly, but you're just not in a

00:31:24.340 mindset of maturity around spirituality and principles. Like I can't imagine not getting

00:31:33.100 edified in some way through a conversation with any religion about how to become better.

00:31:39.180 Right. And yeah, I don't know. I just, because the whole premise of religion is to be better.

00:31:46.800 Yeah. And what a great conversation, period. Whether you agree with aspects of it or not,

00:31:52.000 like, man, I don't know. We should all be having that conversation.

00:31:55.880 Have you ever been to a conference or even a sermon, whatever. And that person is sharing a

00:32:04.140 message and you think to yourself, holy cow, this person is talking to me. Yeah.

00:32:11.000 Right. That's, that's how we should go into environments, even environments that we don't

00:32:16.340 like whether, and I'm not talking about church now. I'm talking about life. You go into a,

00:32:22.060 an employee meeting and you can, you can bitch about it and you can have a bad attitude about 0.99

00:32:26.980 it. Like, this is stupid. Or alternatively, you can go in and be like, okay, I'm going to learn like

00:32:31.940 one new thing. This guy's been in the business for 30 years. He's an asshole. I don't like him,

00:32:35.560 but he's been in the business for 30 years and like successful to some extent from this Monday

00:32:40.460 morning meeting. If you come with that attitude, you'll learn something. If you listen to this

00:32:46.140 podcast, you're like, Hey, you know, Ryan and Kip, those guys are dickheads. Like they don't know

00:32:50.100 what they're talking about. They're talking about religion and they're idiots and they're morons.

00:32:53.340 But you, instead you decide like, I'm going to listen and see if there's like a tidbit of

00:32:57.020 information. You're going to find it. Even with us two stooges, like you're going to find it.

00:33:02.320 Yep. So always go to whatever you're engaged in. Cause you got to be there, right? Like

00:33:07.780 you got, if you got to go to a Monday employee meeting, like you got to be there.

00:33:13.200 So like be there, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally and say, you know,

00:33:18.380 I don't want to be here. This sucks. I agree. Meetings suck, but just be there and learn.

00:33:24.020 So, okay, well, I'm going to, I challenge myself to take out one or two or five things from this

00:33:28.760 meeting that are going to improve my life. And I don't care what it is. You're

00:33:32.200 always going to find it. And I really think like you could even go pause for a second and finish

00:33:38.440 some of those negative thoughts to a conclusion. Oh, this meeting sucks. Well, interesting. Why

00:33:43.080 does it suck? What would make this meeting more productive? What is it that causes me not to like

00:33:48.720 this meeting? Like, and how should I maybe do this meeting in the future? If I were in charge of this,

00:33:53.640 like, damn, don't waste your time, right? Like evolve and take a negative thought and follow it

00:34:00.340 to a conclusion so you can grow from it. That's powerful. I like that. Let's answer Dom's

00:34:06.560 question real quick. Oh yeah. Dom. Francione. Yeah. What? So read it one more time. I have an

00:34:15.580 answer, but just read it one more time. I do have an answer. What definition have you come up for

00:34:20.220 that question? Got it. You're right. I started, the reason I got to protect, provide, preside is

00:34:24.460 because I actually started with the definition. What does it mean to be a man? It means that you have

00:34:29.740 the ability, the ability, the capability, and the desire to protect, provide, and preside over

00:34:34.540 yourself, your family, your loved ones, and people, this is important, people who cannot do it for

00:34:40.660 themselves. So when you are walking down the street and you see somebody, you know, getting abused or

00:34:48.680 attacked, or they're in a dangerous situation, then you have a responsibility. If you're going to act

00:34:52.780 like a man, you have a responsibility to take care of that person. For sure. That's what it is. And

00:34:58.540 what I found, again, I started this movement with that. Like I started with that. Yeah. I led with

00:35:07.180 that. And what I found is that every single person on the podcast who ever answered the question,

00:35:12.160 what does it mean to be a man? Or every conversation I've had about masculinity and manliness in general,

00:35:16.660 they're distinct. Masculinity and manliness, they're different. We can talk about that if we need

00:35:20.600 to, uh, that their answer has fallen into the umbrella of protect, provide, and preside every

00:35:28.900 single time. Go tomorrow, yesterday, Terry Cruz. I, I said something, I can't remember the exact

00:35:34.980 question, but he's like, well, you know, man's a protector and a provider, right? Exactly. He gets

00:35:39.220 it. He understands it. Yeah. He didn't mention the, the, the preside component of it, but he gets it.

00:35:45.060 Everybody gets it. We all know what it is. It's protect, provide, preside.

00:35:48.500 I always assumed that after a couple of years of podcasts and asking that question that there was

00:35:56.680 just going to be a book called, what does it mean to be a man by Ryan Mickler? And that you were going

00:36:02.780 to draw upon all of these interviews and inputs that people have given you and then providing this

00:36:09.580 definition as a book. I know it's not as big of a book, right? The content of that book probably

00:36:15.020 wouldn't be maybe as big, but I don't know, just as a, maybe, maybe that's my wishlist item for you

00:36:21.640 because I really do feel like, and by the way, that title is a strong title in, in the, in the world

00:36:28.260 today. What does it mean to be a man? That's pretty profound actually. Yeah. I like that. And thank you

00:36:34.700 for giving that title to other people to be able to steal that down the road. Yeah. Right. You know,

00:36:38.960 exit this section from the recording. No, it's good. Uh, so I'll just go ahead and release

00:36:45.860 because Barnes and Noble got wind of what we were doing. Yeah. And we have a book coming out the end

00:36:51.500 of September. Barnes and Noble told me it's available on September 27th. Yeah. I saw some

00:36:56.540 pre-orders happening or at least you made a post right on Insta. Right. They told me it's available

00:37:01.540 September 27th. I'm a good to know. I wish I would've known that it's called the mana,

00:37:06.220 the masculinity manifesto. Yeah. And the subtitle is how a man establishes influence,

00:37:12.860 credibility, and authority. And we talk a lot about these topics. Uh, what does it mean to be

00:37:19.080 a man? How does a man show up? How does he garner that, that credibility and authority with other

00:37:24.440 people? Not take it. We talk about that too. We talk about dictators and tyrants and how people have

00:37:29.900 tried to take those things. You can't take those things. They have to be earned. You can take other

00:37:34.700 things, but those you cannot take, they have to be earned. Uh, and so if you guys want to support

00:37:39.880 what we're doing, uh, Barnes and Noble, it's available there. It's probably available on

00:37:43.960 Amazon. I have actually haven't looked. Uh, if you just type in masculinity manifesto,

00:37:49.400 we're changing the book cover a little bit, but you're going to find it and do, do me a solid and

00:37:54.800 just get, get a pre-order in right now. We're going to hit New York times. Like my goal is to hit

00:38:00.020 New York times bestselling list. So it's crucial, man. Now more than I can't believe I started this

00:38:06.800 seven years ago. And now even more, it's like, Oh, you know what? Like God had a plan. He's like,

00:38:12.140 you need to talk about this now. Cause in seven years, it's really going to be needed. And if you

00:38:16.200 think it's needed now, it's going to be more and more needed in 10 years, 15, 20 years though support.

00:38:21.800 All right. Next question. Chris Smith, the difference between primitive masculinity

00:38:27.920 and being a good man, husband, father, and community leader, this community conflates the

00:38:33.180 two ideas. And I struggle with connection with most of the guys here. There's no such thing as what,

00:38:39.560 what did he say? Primitive masculine. Read that again. Performative. I'm sorry. I read my

00:38:44.380 performance, right? Performative masculinity, which I'm not sure if I still understand masculinity.

00:38:49.260 Yeah, but I'll explain what I think he means. Okay. I think he, what he means is beating your chest and

00:38:56.440 getting strong and, and having a big truck and like performing, like performing that you're

00:39:03.080 masculine. I see. Okay. That's not, that's not masculinity. Okay. It would be the equivalent of

00:39:09.360 saying toxic masculinity. That isn't masculine. Yeah. It would also be the same thing as saying

00:39:16.360 virtuous masculinity. That's not a real thing either. Yeah. So, so this is, yeah, let's talk

00:39:23.140 about the book. This is actually the topic of the book. So, so one lie, and I talked about this,

00:39:29.060 I think it was two weeks ago on four great lies of masculinity. One lie is that masculinity is toxic.

00:39:34.680 It's not, it's not inherently toxic. The second lie I mentioned was that masculinity is inherently

00:39:41.180 virtuous. It's actually not, it's not virtuous. It's amoral. Okay. What is masculinity? Well,

00:39:49.140 it's characteristics that are generally attributed to men based on our biological makeup, period.

00:39:59.260 So those traits could be used for good and they could be used for bad. Sure. So I really wanted

00:40:06.540 to unpack this because I've always been at, uh, I I've, I've always hated the term toxic masculinity,

00:40:12.900 but I thought, well, let's explore it. Like, is that true? And to a degree? Yeah, actually it is true.

00:40:22.120 Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you can use masculinity, the characteristics.

00:40:28.440 Let's take a, let's take violence. And there's an entire chapter on violence in this new book.

00:40:33.640 And let's say that Kip, I see you and Asia walking down the street and I decide, you know what?

00:40:38.660 I would like to, I would like to hurt them. I would like to steal from them. I would like to

00:40:44.300 assault them physically or even sexually. Like, and, and so I'm going to take a gun and I'm going to,

00:40:51.800 I'm going to, I'm going to do what I need to do in order to get what I want and steal from you and

00:40:57.380 your wife in some form. Okay. Is that masculine? Well, it's a, it's certainly a, an attribute of

00:41:06.180 dominance. It's certainly an attribute of aggression and violence. And I think generally men are going

00:41:12.480 to be more aggressive, more violent, more dominant than other than women than our female counterparts. 0.97

00:41:18.320 So yeah, I would say that's using some masculinity for unrighteous activities. 1.00

00:41:25.880 Now let's flip it around. Let's say I go to assault you and your wife. And instead you're like, 0.89

00:41:31.880 no, fuck no. And you pull out your gun and you shoot me in the chest five times. Is that violent?

00:41:38.100 Of course it is. Yeah. Is that dominant? A hundred percent. Is that aggressive? Absolutely.

00:41:44.420 Was it righteous? You bet your ass it was. Both were masculine.

00:41:50.600 One over the other determines what makes it manly. It's not manly for me to go attack you and steal from

00:42:02.100 you that, which I don't have a right to, but it is manly for you to use those masculine characteristics

00:42:08.580 to defend you and yours. So who was being the man you were, both of us may have been exhibiting masculine

00:42:16.420 characteristics, but you were being the man. And that's the distinction between masculinity and

00:42:21.080 manliness. We talk a lot about this. Got it. That's great. Anything else for Chris there?

00:42:30.020 What was the question again? I get hyped up and right.

00:42:32.160 Well, I mean, he does, I know he does struggle. He says his, this community, I don't know what this

00:42:37.020 community is, but. Oh, that's right. Performing. Maybe he's talking about Facebook. I don't know.

00:42:40.860 I think he's talking about the Facebook group. Here's what I would say. It's not exclusive

00:42:44.080 to the Facebook group. Yeah. Like performative masculinity is just never going to make you feel

00:42:50.400 good. Like you go buy, you go buy a big ass truck. You can, you can get jacked. You can go, you know,

00:42:56.960 put a bunch of notches on your belt. Like you can do all that stuff and, and it'll feel good in the

00:43:02.240 moment. You know, like if you get off with, with a, with an attractive woman, you're going to feel

00:43:05.940 good. Like, of course, if you didn't feel good, then you probably wouldn't have any, you know,

00:43:10.100 desire to do it. If you go buy a big truck and, and, you know, pretend like you're, you're more

00:43:15.720 of a man than maybe you really are. You're going to feel good for a minute, for a minute. But

00:43:21.620 manliness is about harnessing those masculine characteristics. So it's done. Here's a couple

00:43:26.580 of chapters. I talk about the book, dominance, aggression, stoicism, violence, honesty, vigilance.

00:43:35.420 If you use these types of care, masculine characteristics or righteous outcomes,

00:43:41.760 it's going to have a long-term, long lasting impact and effect. And it's not just going to

00:43:46.640 feel good for a few seconds while you're getting off. It's going to be a lifelong experience.

00:43:51.080 That's going to help you be a better man and help you to serve other people more effectively.

00:43:55.200 Yeah. Well, and, and even though those show up, both of those show up in our communities, I mean,

00:43:59.520 what, what an opportunity maybe for these guys that, I mean, it's almost a little bit feels like

00:44:04.700 smoke and mirrors, right? I want to be masculine. I want to be manly, but I don't want to put in the

00:44:11.040 discipline and the work to, to be that. So I'm going to do these superficial things to come across

00:44:15.720 as though, um, I'm a man. And so what a great opportunity to help these guys get on the path

00:44:21.300 and understand what does it ultimately mean to be a man. And it's a much greater than,

00:44:26.500 you know what I mean? These performative things that guys do because they're easy, right? They're the

00:44:31.700 easy things. Totally. Yeah. What I would say to the last two questions is what it means.

00:44:36.680 What does it mean to be a man is, and there's a protect, provide, preside component of it,

00:44:41.120 but what it is, is your ability to harness your masculine virtues and characteristics

00:44:46.500 towards productive outcomes for yourself, your loved ones, and people who can't do it for themselves.

00:44:52.520 Yeah. That's the best definition I can come up with.

00:44:55.320 All right. John Rohrbaugh, everything is paid off except the house. Should I put more money to pay

00:45:02.660 off house or more money to our startup business of a homeschooling tutoring center? Tahoe Learning

00:45:09.340 Labs, a little plug for himself there. I have a steady job for the utility company that I like

00:45:13.980 and pays well. Thank you guys for all that you do. You are making a bigger impact on men than you know.

00:45:18.620 So this is where I think Dave Ramsey and I would probably disagree. And he's been on the podcast.

00:45:23.980 Yeah. Because he's all pay off debt always, right?

00:45:26.180 Yeah. I don't think I would. I don't know what your interest rates are, but let's just talk about

00:45:30.500 it broadly and generally. All your debts are paid off. You've got your mortgage. He would say,

00:45:35.880 double up on that or turn it into a 15-year mortgage. I don't think he would say refinance. I

00:45:40.960 think he would just say, add extra payments to it to turn it into a 15-year mortgage.

00:45:44.360 I don't agree with that, actually. What I would say is if all of your debts are paid off

00:45:50.060 and your mortgage interest rate is relatively low, that you ought to give a plug for his business

00:45:55.980 again. What is it? Tahoe Learning Lab. Is that I personally, what I would do, and actually I say

00:46:02.960 this out of experience, what I am doing. I have several mortgages on this property. I have a small

00:46:09.780 mortgage on other properties. I have mortgages. I have renters in our other properties. We're

00:46:15.220 paying for this extra money, discretionary money goes into the business. Yeah. Bankroll that stuff.

00:46:21.420 Yeah. Totally. Because let's just say I take a hundred grand and dump it into the house here

00:46:27.260 in Maine. Okay. Well, I say 4% interest compounded annually, but let's say I dumped it into the business.

00:46:33.600 What am I going to get on that? 40%? 400% return on the business? Bro, I'm dumping it into the

00:46:40.720 business all day long. And the other reason, there's another reason for this is that if you

00:46:48.640 pour a bunch of money into your home, let's just say hypothetically, you have a $300,000 mortgage

00:46:54.680 and you dump over a period of several years, a hundred extra thousand dollars into your mortgage.

00:47:00.760 And so now you owe 200,000. I'm just using some rough numbers here. And then you fall upon hard

00:47:07.820 times or let's say there's a business opportunity. Let's say a business comes to you and a friend

00:47:15.060 who has a little startup, a little tech startup, and you're super interested in this. And you're like,

00:47:21.840 you know, man, if I put a hundred grand into this thing, like this could really take off.

00:47:27.680 This is a scenario that happened with me. It wasn't tech. It was another organization. I can't

00:47:32.660 really disclose that right now. But if I dumped a hundred thousand dollars into my home, I got to

00:47:39.340 call the bank and I got to say, Hey, you know, can I give me some of that back? Yeah. And in this

00:47:45.800 market, probably actually, you probably could. Yeah.

00:47:48.480 In the market of 2008 and 2009, hell no, you're not getting that money back. No, no way in a million

00:47:56.440 years is the mortgage company going to give you your money back. And so what happens? Your buddy,

00:48:02.020 who's got the awesome tech startup, goes out and reaches your 10 other friends and he starts Twitter

00:48:07.200 that's going to sell to Elon Musk for, you know, $50 billion or whatever it is.

00:48:11.900 Yeah. And here you were, you dumped a hundred thousand dollars into your house

00:48:15.720 that you can't get to. Or here's another scenario. Let's say you dump a hundred thousand dollars in

00:48:22.160 your house and you go to the, you go to jujitsu and you tear your bicep and you need to go get

00:48:30.400 surgery on it. And it's going to cost you 15 grand to get surgery. And you don't have 15 grand in the

00:48:34.400 bank. And you go to the mortgage company. You're like, Hey, you know, I think I paid you extra.

00:48:38.380 Bro, could you give me some of that money back? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. We'll give you some

00:48:41.600 of that money back at 8% interest. Then that $15,000 surgery turns into a 22 or $25,000 surgery.

00:48:50.840 Right? So you don't got to dump it into your mortgage. It's just not a, it's not a prudent

00:48:55.960 decision. That's where Dave Ramsey and I disagree. Well, and there's different aspects of this. Like I,

00:49:01.840 I was having this conversation with my mom, right? My dad just passed away and he left

00:49:08.300 my mom with a large amount of acres of land. So the question is, is, Oh, do I sell all these acres

00:49:15.660 of land and end up paying the federal government, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxes

00:49:23.860 for, for her to, to get cash right from this land? Or could she hold onto the land, lease it out,

00:49:33.520 take out a loan against it and just pay herself money tax-free? Like there's strategy here. Of 0.99

00:49:41.880 course it has to come with interest rates and you know what I mean? And, and cashflow and other

00:49:45.760 things, but it's, it's not so simple as just, you know, but do, and we've had this conversation

00:49:50.360 not to beat up Dave Ramsey, but we've had this conversation is like, would, would Dave probably

00:49:55.040 disagree with you in the context of this conversation? Probably not. Right. But his message

00:50:01.100 is consistent for the masses and, and for his focused audience, maybe.

00:50:06.900 One of the things, so I, so I'm a financial advisor by trade. Like that's my background.

00:50:11.600 That's what I did. I did some retail management. I did some financial planning. And then this is my

00:50:15.620 third real, what I would say business endeavor. So those are my three retail management,

00:50:21.280 financial services, and whatever you want to call this. Okay. Uh, I don't even know.

00:50:27.120 Conversationalist, not a podcast. Conversationalist. That's fine. Really a marketer. You use that term

00:50:32.300 all the time. I have no problem with that. I like marketing. I love marketing. I think it's awesome.

00:50:36.640 And by the way, in retail, financial services, and whatever this is, it's all marketing. Okay.

00:50:42.540 Yeah. You guys got to hear that lesson. You got to hear it. It's marketing. Okay.

00:50:47.140 So I grew up hating Dave Ramsey. When I learned from my trainers and stuff about how to sell

00:50:55.580 financial services, market financial services, cause that's what we did. Yeah. That's,

00:51:00.220 that's happened to be what we were selling. It was like Dave Ramsey. Oh, you can't talk about Dave

00:51:06.000 Ramsey. Oh, Dave Ramsey. That guy's an idiot. That guy's a fool. And then when I sat down with Dave Ramsey,

00:51:10.840 I asked him, I said, Hey, look, you're talking about these baby steps of like saving a thousand dollars

00:51:16.180 on whatever, like eating on rice and beans. Like, that's not where I made my wealth, Dave.

00:51:22.900 That's not where you made your wealth. You didn't make your wealth paying down your mortgage. You

00:51:27.220 made your wealth on the business. Getting in debt and probably getting in debt and bankrolling his

00:51:32.860 business ideas with debt. Yeah. So I was like, so like, talk to me about that. And I wanted to hear

00:51:40.200 what he said. I was very curious in what he said. And he was very truthful. He said, yeah, Ryan,

00:51:44.300 you're a hundred percent right. Business and real estate is how you build wealth.

00:51:48.300 That's how you build wealth business and real estate. He's like, I'm talking to 80% of people

00:51:53.280 out there. And what they need to do is learn how to budget their, their bank account.

00:51:58.960 What they need to learn how to do is not get into more consumer debt, but the other 20. Yeah,

00:52:03.760 you're right. They need to be buying businesses. They need to be investing in their business.

00:52:08.140 They need to own real estate. That's not who I talked to on the Dave Ramsey show. We talked to the

00:52:12.960 80% who need to go from X or excuse me, a to be not the guys who need to go from X to Z.

00:52:19.660 So he gets it. He, he definitely gets it. And it was very refreshing to actually hear him say that

00:52:24.720 by the way, if you're interested, order of man.com slash Dave Ramsey, and you'll pull up the links to

00:52:30.360 be able to listen to that podcast. Excellent. Logan, hold on one second. I gotta go. I gotta go

00:52:35.780 pee real quick. Hold on one quick second. I just, I always hope that he never takes these out of the

00:52:41.240 recordings. Okay. If that's the case, then it's up to you to be able to entertain the guys until I'm,

00:52:49.820 until I'm back. Fair enough. Fair enough. My wife always makes fun of me for having a, 1.00

00:52:54.400 I run order of man, but I have a woman's bladder. So. Hey, that means you're drinking enough fluids, 1.00

00:53:00.420 which is a good idea. Trying to, whenever I hear someone getting like gallbladder, I'm like,

00:53:06.020 or not gallbladder, like a kidney stone. I'm like, find the closest water. I'm like,

00:53:10.900 I better drink more of this. Have you ever had a kidney stone? No. And I, I had one,

00:53:15.700 one time probably years ago. I legit thought I was dying. Yeah. So I was, all right. So I was

00:53:24.980 work. It is, it was, for me, it was diet Coke, but I was working out in our backyard,

00:53:31.660 like raking up leaves and whatnot. And I started to get this like stomach, abdomen, abdomen pain.

00:53:38.820 Yeah. And I was like, Whoa, what's going on? We were in Southern Utah at the time. I legit,

00:53:44.640 I'm like, I must've got bit by like a black widow or a Brown or a close or like something. I must, 0.99

00:53:49.460 I got poisoned and dying. Yeah. Yeah. I got bit by something in my guts. Like this is not good.

00:53:56.020 And I went inside and I remember I took a shower. I'm like, I got to cool off. I was super hot. I was

00:54:03.080 like, I got to cool off. And so I cooled off and I came out and I like laid on the floor, like,

00:54:09.240 Oh, I was dying. And my wife was gone. She was grocery shopping or something. And I called her.

00:54:13.600 I'm like, hon, you need to come home. Like now there's, I've got a pro like, there's some,

00:54:19.200 I've got a problem. So she comes home and I said, just honk. And I'll come out. Like we need to go

00:54:26.080 to the ER immediately. So we go to the ER, all the kids load in the suburban. I get in the suburban

00:54:32.620 we're driving and my lips and face start going numb. No way. What, what is going on? I'll come back

00:54:43.140 to that. Remind me, but my lips and face started going numb. Remind me, I need to come back to that

00:54:47.160 part. And we're driving and my kids were like being loud and obnoxious in the car. And I vividly,

00:54:53.840 no joke. I vividly remember I wanted to be so pissed and yell, but I'm like, this is actually

00:54:59.540 the last time they might see me. Yeah. You don't want to be like, shut up. I'm dying here.

00:55:03.620 I legit thought I was dying. So I was like, Hey kids, like, I'm not feeling very good. Can you

00:55:10.000 keep it down? I love you guys. Like, just keep it down. I legitimately thought I was dying.

00:55:14.960 So I get, so we get to the ER and I told him what's going on. I have abdomen, abdomen pain.

00:55:21.580 You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm warm. Like, I don't know what's going on. And they're like, Oh,

00:55:27.260 you have a kidney stone. And I said, no, no, no, I've died. No, you don't understand.

00:55:33.480 I don't have a kidney stone. I'm literally dying. And they're like, sir, you have a kidney stone.

00:55:42.420 Go sit down in the lobby. So I go sit in the lobby and my wife's there and I'm like, hon,

00:55:49.540 I'm going to die. Like in this, like in this waiting room of the emergency room, I'm going to die.

00:55:54.480 And I know the game. So I said, yeah, just go tell him I'm going to pass out. Like,

00:56:00.000 just tell him I'm going to pass out. So she gets out and she goes up the window and she says, Hey,

00:56:04.840 I'm going to pass. My husband's going to pass out. And like, Oh, okay. They get me immediately.

00:56:08.860 Cause I know the game. I'm not dumb. Yeah. Yeah. They grabbed me immediately. They bring me in.

00:56:12.580 The attending physician comes in and he's like, so what's going on today? I said, I'm dying.

00:56:17.960 Okay. Like do something. I'm dying. And they're like, okay, well, what's the problem? I said,

00:56:24.020 my stomach hurts. Here's what's going on. I'm dying. He's like, you have a kidney stone. I said,

00:56:28.480 no, I don't have a kidney stone. I'm dying. He's like, okay. He rolls his eyes. He admits me.

00:56:35.480 And I'm like, can you give me some medicine or like, like, like some drugs shoot me like something.

00:56:44.020 And he's like, sir, I can't really do that until we figure out what's going on. And he said,

00:56:49.400 but I know what's going on. You have a kidney stone. I'm like, bro, if somebody else tells me

00:56:53.180 that I'm going to rage, like I don't have a kidney stone. He's like, okay, okay. So I go into the MRI

00:56:59.260 machine or whatever. Yeah. And it was, her name's Donna. I won't say her last name, but her name's

00:57:04.840 Donna. She's our neighbor. She's the x-ray tech. And I go in there. She's like, what's wrong, Ryan?

00:57:09.720 She's our neighbor. She's in the church, in the church ward with us. And I said, I'm dying. And

00:57:15.060 she's like, you're not dying. You have a kidney stone. And she laughed at me. No, Donna, you don't

00:57:21.900 understand. Okay. You may have pushed a baby out of your vagina, but you've never experienced pain 1.00

00:57:28.180 like I'm experiencing right now. And so she's like, okay, okay. So she puts me in the MRI. She gets it

00:57:34.640 done. I'm like, okay, so what's the problem? She's like, I can't, I can't tell you like your doctor

00:57:38.380 has to talk to you. Yeah. So I go back and I'm sitting in the room like, Hey doc, like you figured

00:57:45.280 out, like put some morphine or whatever, like mainline that shit right into my arm. Cause

00:57:49.380 this is killing me. And he's like, well, Ryan, I have some good news and some bad news. I'm like,

00:57:55.060 okay, give it to me. I'm ready. And he's like, well, uh, the bad news is you have a kidney stone

00:58:03.480 like we thought it was. And the good news is that it's so small that you probably already passed the

00:58:12.540 thing. And so we're going to release you from the hospital. The good news is it's really not that

00:58:19.960 bad is the good news. Yeah. And they, they gave me a little bit of drugs, I think, and they released

00:58:26.960 me and I'm driving home and I'm, I'm like, I felt pretty good. Bro, don't ever get a kidney stone.

00:58:36.280 It's horrible. I've heard horrible, horrible. See, I'm all motivated gallon of water today.

00:58:43.260 Guaranteed every day just by having this conversation. I'm like, not having kidney stone.

00:58:47.700 And I haven't had one since my mom gets them. So I think it must be hereditary or something, but

00:58:52.420 you don't have a kidney stone and don't drink a bunch of soda and diet Coke. Yeah. Okay. Next

00:58:59.620 question. Oh, your face was numb. Oh yeah. So I'm like, well, this is the venom from the spider.

00:59:07.460 Yeah. Like this is the black widow of venom, like going through. Yeah. I read this in a book somewhere.

00:59:12.700 Yeah. Yeah. I was on web MD and that's what they said. Like I'm dying. It was because I was hyperventilating.

00:59:19.480 Dude. Like I had, I had worked myself up so much that I was hyperventilating that my lips and my face

00:59:29.440 lower face were going numb because I'd worked my ass up because I thought I was dying because 0.68

00:59:34.600 crazy. Yeah. It's all, it's all right here, guys. It's all in your mind. Like everything is in your

00:59:40.500 mind. Control this and you have control over everything else. Yeah. All right. Logan Rowe,

00:59:47.600 my child's therapist is talking about diagnosing my daughter with oppositional defiance disorder or

00:59:56.380 ODD. The backstory is I adopted my daughter at age seven. She was my niece prior and has dealt with

01:00:03.240 some pretty rough dealings and trauma as a child. She is now almost 14 and I have, I've had her for

01:00:09.520 almost seven years. My question is, do you think ODD now or her just being extremely disrespectful and 1.00

01:00:17.740 defiant? I don't expect you to know much about ODD as I don't know much either for other parents who

01:00:24.940 have had kids in therapy. I feel like ODD can be a cop-out for kids to behave in such a way.

01:00:30.940 What are your thoughts on this? Thanks for all that you do for men across the world.

01:00:34.840 Who, what was the guy's name? Logan. First, I would say this, Logan, I really want to acknowledge

01:00:42.720 you. This is your niece. It sounds like who you brought on. I don't know if that's your brother

01:00:48.860 or sister or your wife's brother or sister. I don't know the situation, but I just want to acknowledge

01:00:54.360 you for stepping up in a situation that you don't have to. I don't know the situation, but it sounds

01:01:00.260 like it's less than ideal and you stepped up and I want to commend you for doing that. That's the most,

01:01:04.800 that's like one of the most important things of the story right here. Yeah. Hell yeah. That's,

01:01:08.740 that's really cool. I don't know a thing about, what was it? ODD defiance disorder,

01:01:15.900 oppositional defiance disorder, oppositional defiance disorder. I wrote it down here.

01:01:20.420 Um, I don't know a thing about it, but so I don't know. I, what I do know is that ADD is diagnosed

01:01:27.260 heavily in, in young children, especially boys. This sounds like it's his niece though, right?

01:01:33.260 Yes. His niece. And so I, I think ADD, um, has been misdiagnosed and over, over diagnosed. And,

01:01:43.220 and again, I'm not going to like, by the way, statistically it is. ADD is statistically

01:01:49.080 constantly over diagnosed. Yeah. So when I, when I hear that Logan, I'm very much in alignment with

01:01:54.700 you, upper, whatever it was called defiance disorder. Like I hear that and I think, Oh,

01:02:01.540 the kid has a bad attitude or is just a little rebellious. Like, I don't know. I'm not a doctor,

01:02:06.460 but I hear it. I'm like, that sounds like some bullshit made up stuff to like, let's give that

01:02:11.880 a label so we can give him some. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm not going to say it is, or it isn't. Cause what

01:02:17.720 do I know? What I would suggest is maybe get a second opinion. Yeah. I would do that route first.

01:02:26.480 Um, and then I would read some, some books on parenting and I would, I would start there

01:02:32.320 before medicating. I would, I would try to open the lines of communication. I'm not saying

01:02:38.200 medication is out the, out of the window. Like maybe, I don't know, but I'm saying start with

01:02:43.060 a low hanging fruit. So when I was in the hospital at the ER yesterday, when the doc was like, Hey,

01:02:47.780 um, we're going to, we're going to do an x-ray. And I said, well, I heard that x-rays aren't going

01:02:52.560 to show the muscle tears and tendons and ligaments. He's like, Oh no, you're exactly right. We just want

01:02:56.800 to make sure we rule this out first because that's a low hanging fruit. And then if we rule that out,

01:03:02.160 then we need to go further. We need to explore further that. That's what I think you need to do here

01:03:07.380 is maybe there's, I mean, clearly this child, I don't know how old this child is, but clearly 14

01:03:13.980 now 14. And I don't know when, when she came into your life, as far as you being more of a father

01:03:19.760 figure. I don't know that. Did he say that? Seven. He adopted her at age seven. Yep. Well, look from the

01:03:27.500 time she's newborn to seven, that's a lot of time to be damaged with, with other people. Okay. And so

01:03:34.980 there might be some situations like that, or she might just be 14. Yeah. I don't know. I've got a

01:03:42.520 daughter. She's not 14 yet. Thankfully by God's good grace, she's not 14, but I would, I would try to

01:03:51.740 change my parenting tactics a little bit and see what I needed to do there to keep the lines of

01:03:55.900 communication open and keep her engaged. Consider here's a big one. Consider how much she's on social

01:04:01.860 media, consider who her friends are, considering the distractions that she's involved with,

01:04:08.480 considering who she's spending time with. That's very important. And then I would also look at

01:04:12.960 getting a second opinion before you start saying, well, okay, she's going to have to take Adderall or 1.00

01:04:16.740 whatever the prescribed medication is. I would, I would, I would use that as a last resort, but I'm

01:04:23.100 not a medical doctor and I want to throw that out there. I don't know. You're going to have to figure

01:04:26.700 that out. I think the main thing is what I hear you saying, Ryan is just be aware of the situation,

01:04:33.980 right? One, we all know that in America that we're overly, um, on drugs more than we should be

01:04:41.540 period. We, we know that the, that most doctors are just borderline pharmacists and they're looking

01:04:50.640 for the quick answer. And, and so just have that knowledge going into this and going, okay,

01:04:57.120 knowing that the trend is to typically just throw kids on meds. It's like, okay, well,

01:05:01.760 if the doctor suggests meds, then how was this med, how do we taper off? What's the plan to get off?

01:05:08.020 What's the behavior we're going for? Not, oh, just put them on meds and they're well-behaved and we just

01:05:12.740 continue on forever. Right? Like, you know what I mean? So look at the bigger picture,

01:05:17.720 have a plan around it, you know, and, and I don't know if you're in a position,

01:05:22.580 you know, and, and, and understand your daughter, her willingness to share her thoughts, but like,

01:05:28.900 maybe even have those conversations. Like, why are you defiant? What is your thought process? What

01:05:33.920 are you thinking? What is it that you don't like about, like help her be mindful. It's really

01:05:39.660 interesting. I, I, I struggle with this a lot because I, I feel, and we see this in, in just

01:05:49.120 our lives period, right? You have a difficult circumstance and we always have an opportunity

01:05:54.680 to rise up and become better out of that circumstance, or we can take some type of shortcut

01:06:02.220 to minimize it and move on. And when we take a shortcut of any means, we don't grow. And so

01:06:11.180 make sure that your daughter's not taking a shortcut of growth and that this is an opportunity for her

01:06:18.920 to learn and grow with you. And, and, and even to your point, like you were saying, Ryan, like, well,

01:06:25.100 just to share Logan. So I have my Asia's son, Kyave, you know, when we got married, he was three.

01:06:33.940 And now that I've read oppositional defiance history, I'm like, oh, that's totally what he has.

01:06:39.800 No, no trauma whatsoever. Right. He didn't have like extreme trauma. You would assume that age three,

01:06:46.440 he doesn't, he doesn't even remember life without me. Right. So for all intents and purposes,

01:06:52.180 you would assume that he would raise up like, oh, kiss my dad and blah, blah, blah. No, because he

01:06:58.740 knows the story. He knows that there's a dad over here. He knows that his mom and dad aren't together,

01:07:04.140 that I'm not quote unquote his blood. You don't think he makes stories as a teenager. Of course he

01:07:11.380 does. We make stories, all kinds of reasons of why we justify what we do and why our lives are shit and

01:07:17.600 how people don't understand us. And we're adults. So trust me, your kid is running all kinds of

01:07:22.860 stories around. It's her definition or her justification of being defiant. It'd be insightful

01:07:28.440 of knowing what that is and helping her have that mindset. With that said, just be, just be prepared

01:07:33.880 going into this, knowing that a lot of doctors over-diagnose, they're going to probably throw on

01:07:39.140 meds quicker than you'd probably want. And the harder things and are often the correct things.

01:07:45.180 And those harder things are going to be the things that no one's going to tell you. And it's going to

01:07:49.180 be become a better parent push through. And it's, and it's not going to be easy with that said back

01:07:57.260 to what Ryan said. We're not doctors. You know what I mean? All that kind of jazz. So, I mean,

01:08:01.000 that's the hard part is you got to throw that disclaimer out there. Cause I don't know. We don't

01:08:04.120 know your situation when every kid's different too. And that's why you need to have that second

01:08:08.580 opinion is you get another opinion that same thing with my arm today. I'm like, like the ER doc,

01:08:13.720 here's what he said, the attending physician. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't like, okay,

01:08:17.720 I appreciate that. I'm not taking that as fact. And so I had somebody else come over this morning.

01:08:22.300 I'm like, Kate, now you tell me. And he cooperated the story. I'm like, okay, all right. There's some

01:08:27.740 more weight to that now. Like you guys are both saying the same thing. Got it. Check. Okay. Thank you.

01:08:32.720 Totally. So you might, but, but here's what I, this is what I hear. Whether this is wrong or not,

01:08:39.040 this is what I hear. Yeah. Your kid's not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Cause she's 14 years old.

01:08:44.720 And instead of working through it, let's just get her high. Yeah. Sedater. Yeah. That's what I hear.

01:08:52.220 And I think that's what you hear. That's where I go immediately. Right. Whenever I hear,

01:08:56.460 you know, Oh, my kid has blah, blah, blah. You're like,

01:08:59.560 but just get some other opinions, like not our opinion, get some professional opinions. And then

01:09:07.460 if everybody's cooperating the story, then, you know, okay. All right. Got it. There's something to

01:09:12.560 do this. But if somebody is like, no, she really needs to just be involved in, in some sports. 0.52

01:09:19.320 Okay. Okay. Try that first. Like that's a better route than just getting her high. So that's what I

01:09:25.180 would say. Yeah. All right. Let's take one more. Jake opinion. Now, this is a great one. In fact,

01:09:30.380 we all need the answer to this question. So how do you lead your wife who seems perfectly content with

01:09:36.260 the way that she is and has little to no desire to work on herself? Okay. 0.96

01:09:43.340 What's your three word? Ryan, how do we change our wives to be better? Maybe start on a conversation 1.00

01:09:49.480 with no, no, it's actually not what it is. Here's what, here's the question. Here's the real question.

01:09:56.200 How do I get my wife to grow the same way? I think she should. That's a nicer question. Yeah, 0.83

01:10:03.520 but you're right. That's really what it is. How do I get her on the path that I'm on?

01:10:07.500 Why isn't she doing what I think she should be doing? What the hell is wrong with her? 1.00

01:10:13.600 All right. Here's what I would say. I've been married for in June, we'll be 18 years.

01:10:20.080 So for some of you, I'm a veteran. For others, I'm a newbie.

01:10:23.840 Seasoned. Yeah.

01:10:25.940 Here's what I would say. Her self-development journey is not your self-development journey.

01:10:30.740 And I used to like, tell my wife, Hey, read this book. Terry Cruz just came out with this new book

01:10:37.440 called tough. How to, how to find your, your masculine power. You should read this.

01:10:42.780 Yeah. I was like, you should be Goggins. You'd be a better book. Yeah. Can't hurt me by David

01:10:48.940 Goggins would be amazing for you. Oh, Jocko. You'd really like Jocko leadership. The dichotomy of

01:10:55.740 leadership. This would be a great book for you. Yeah. Get some. Come on now.

01:11:02.760 Okay. You know what book was really good for?

01:11:06.360 Oh, no, I know. I know the answer. Can I answer? Yeah. Go.

01:11:10.140 Beekeeping. It was, we talk a lot. So I already know the story, but go ahead.

01:11:14.440 It was like, I don't even know what it's called. Beekeeping 101 or something. Who knows? I don't

01:11:18.660 remember. Or it was like married to dummies. One-on-one. Yeah. That would be a good one for 0.98

01:11:24.940 her. Dummies or assholes. One or the other. Or like, or, or how to build, how to grow a garden 1.00

01:11:34.660 from seed or whatever, you know, or, or, or how to can green beans or how to use a freeze dryer.

01:11:45.920 Here's one she gave me the other day. And it was, uh, she's like, here, taste this. And it was just

01:11:50.900 like dehydrated yellow puff ball thing. It was D high. We have a D high. I bought her a dehydrator.

01:11:57.820 This actually ties into the story. And she's like, here, I came home the other night and she's like,

01:12:02.100 here, um, try this and tell me what it is. So I tried it. I'm like, oh, that's a peep. She's like,

01:12:07.640 nope, it's not a peep. I'm like, okay, that's a, and I said, it's a laugh. It's a laugh. It's a banana,

01:12:12.420 laughy taffy. And she's like close. It's a banana, saltwater taffy. I'm like, okay, well,

01:12:18.040 that's the same thing. I guess good. And, and so she doesn't need to read David Goggins. She needs

01:12:24.340 to know how to dehydrate saltwater taffies. And that's her personal development. She needs to know

01:12:29.940 how to make a tomato from a seed, getting heirloom tomatoes. And, and she gets these like thick,

01:12:36.300 like this, like two inch thick heirloom tomato, like, or vegetable magazines. Uh, they're not

01:12:41.780 even, they're catalogs. And she, her and my oldest son, like go through it together and like, look

01:12:46.620 at these awesome tomatoes. And I'm like, I don't care about those tomatoes. Just like she doesn't

01:12:51.960 care about David Goggins, his book or Terry Cruz, who I had on the podcast. She didn't care about that

01:12:57.440 stuff. The point I'm making here is find her path, help her find her path, help her figure 0.99

01:13:04.900 out what that is. Support, edify, uplift, enrich, like work towards her path. When she's like,

01:13:12.460 Hey, I really want to learn how to sew. Then you go to the community center today and you pick up

01:13:19.180 their community center, little magazine, and you find all the little sewing things on there from

01:13:24.640 all the little old ladies who like to sew. And you say, Hey hon, like, I know you said you want to 0.99

01:13:29.320 sew. I was at the community center today. And this little old lady, Mrs. Johnson, 0.99

01:13:34.900 she's been sewing for 80 years and she's doing a sewing class every Wednesday night for the next

01:13:40.420 six weeks. You should totally do that. Like, let's get you signed up.

01:13:45.000 I just order, but you order man hats with that. Don't have patches and

01:13:49.640 don't do that. You'll get to that. You'll get to that guys. Like you'll turn it into something

01:13:55.620 productive, but for now, don't worry about that. Just get her sewing. Yeah. All right. And sewing is,

01:14:01.980 is obviously a metaphor, right? Whatever her thing is like, what's Asia into? Okay. 0.90

01:14:09.480 Fitness, um, building our home, you know, we're building a new house and she's just

01:14:15.800 nerding out about the plans and just running with it, you know?

01:14:21.120 So, so what if you got like a book about, you know, how to, how to build a home or how to go

01:14:27.200 through the process and you just bought it on Amazon and you had it shipped directly to her

01:14:30.820 with a little note that says, Hey, I love you. I'm so excited about your drive and I'm excited

01:14:34.720 to build this home together. Yeah. Totally. Damn. Or what if, as Jaco would say, I would get some,

01:14:41.880 you would get some, what if you went to home Depot and you, and you bought a tool belt and you bought

01:14:47.700 like the top of the line tools, like hammer tape measure, like some basic things.

01:14:53.200 And you're like, Hey, you're like, Hey hon, I know you're excited about this. And I thought

01:14:57.860 this might be a cool thing to help as we get started. And so I love you. I support you,

01:15:03.980 whatever you, that's not my wife's thing. Here's a good example. She loves gardening. That's a big 0.78

01:15:09.080 thing for Trish. And so Brecken and I, my oldest son and I, we made a little toolbox, you know,

01:15:15.120 it's probably 18 inches long by, uh, you know, six or seven inches wide, seven inches deep. And we

01:15:23.100 went to the local hardware store and we drilled holes on top of it. We bought all these little

01:15:27.740 tools and we built this like custom little spool on the end. And we put a, uh, uh, a thing of twine

01:15:35.140 on the end with a tape measure. And then we had this like, she carries it around canvas pouch that

01:15:41.280 we attached to one side with screws and a washer. And we painted it this like Tiffany blue color that

01:15:47.440 she really likes. And we gave it to her. I think it was either for her birthday or mother's day last

01:15:52.880 year, bro. She uses that all that she's using it today. She uses it all the time. I didn't have to

01:15:59.540 tell her to read some self-help book or David Goggins or Jocko Willink or get her on my, no, I support

01:16:05.540 you. This is your self-development journey. And you can't tell me that she isn't interested in

01:16:11.260 something. Cause I think that's the rebuttal. Well, I just don't know what she's interested

01:16:14.280 in. Right. So you have to start to uncover it. You start to have, you have to unpack it

01:16:18.780 and figure out what she is. And then when you find a vein, then just like you would be in a

01:16:24.000 mine, you're like, Hey, that's a vein. Like there's some gold right there. I'm going to mine

01:16:27.540 that. And you mine it and you either hit, hit the gold or you're like, Oh no, it's, that's

01:16:33.660 like a diversion. So like, here's another vein. Let's try that vein. That's what you need

01:16:37.760 to do. And then when you find it, don't judge it.

01:16:41.800 Yeah. Okay. Cause when my wife's like, I'm going to go garden, I'm like, that's stupid. 1.00

01:16:46.500 We just go to the grocery store. Okay. What does that tell her? Okay. Like you're, what

01:16:52.980 if she said that to you every time you're like, Hey, I bought this new book. I'm really excited

01:16:56.640 about. She's like, that's stupid. Why would you need to know how to like lift better? Okay.

01:17:02.260 Well, that's deflating. And I'm not suggesting you do this, but I know there's a lot of guys

01:17:08.080 who do this. It's not stupid if she's into gardening or beekeeping or canning or playing 1.00

01:17:15.880 the banjo. That's what I got my wife for Christmas. You know how many times she's played the banjo

01:17:20.460 since Christmas? Two maybe. And you know what? Here's the secret. And she's not going to listen

01:17:27.340 to this. She doesn't listen to it. I don't give a shit. If she plays the banjo, I don't 0.99

01:17:31.580 care. It doesn't, what I care is that she knows, she knows that I listened to her and

01:17:40.740 I believe in her and that I will support her. Yeah. And so she's mentioned the banjo for

01:17:47.680 years. And so I bought her, I don't know, I spent maybe five, 600 bucks on getting her

01:17:51.920 a banjo and the thing and this and that. Is it a waste of money? Cause she's never played

01:17:55.920 since Christmas? No way. Not in a million years. Cause that five or $600 I spent on it

01:18:02.080 was enough to let her know that I was thinking about her, that I care about her, that I'm

01:18:09.360 listening to what she's interested in and that I'm willing to support that. And that's

01:18:16.580 why we've done pretty well over the past 18 years. Not always, but a gap in there, but

01:18:22.000 that's what I've learned over the past 18 years. Yeah. And, and this is rooted on the

01:18:26.100 idea that it has to be her call. Most people's development path is based upon agency and what

01:18:34.800 they've identified is important for them on their own period. Now we can be inspirational

01:18:41.580 and we should be the way we show up in the world should inspire people, but, but guess

01:18:48.080 what's not inspiring me trying to be inspirational to try to change you Ryan, because you're not

01:18:53.880 showing up in the world the way I think you should, that's not inspiring anybody. And so

01:18:59.320 this is their path, just like your path has been your path, you know, and it's about supporting

01:19:04.940 them and letting them come to the conclusion of what's ideal for them.

01:19:09.180 And, and then just not judging it and just instead supporting it. And you know, what's going

01:19:14.100 to happen? Just like you guys. All right. I get hopped up on certain things. I'm like,

01:19:18.260 Oh, you know, it'd be cool to be able to build a canoe and I get 80% through the process.

01:19:25.740 And I'm like, Hey, that's not as cool as I thought it was.

01:19:30.040 I thought you dropped that thing. You didn't drop it yet.

01:19:33.040 No, it's going to be dropped this year. I got it.

01:19:35.180 I was thinking about grief now. I'm like, I couldn't even sleep.

01:19:38.140 I'm like, so how's the canoe going?

01:19:39.640 I couldn't even sleep last night. Cause I was thinking about everything that needed to be,

01:19:42.740 I'm like 80% done. Okay. Or it looked, it looks beautiful. It's close. It's close. It's like

01:19:51.640 80% done. Anyways, there's, there's things that I get hopped up on that I realized I'm like, okay,

01:19:57.800 that's not the thing. And cool. Like we had a good experience. Well, guess what guys,

01:20:03.040 she does the same thing. She's like, Oh, I'd love to play the banjo. And you get her one. She's like,

01:20:07.960 yeah, I hate the banjo. It's like, okay, well, way harder than I realized. I didn't realize

01:20:11.520 that something. Yeah. But you're going to stumble over, you know, 20 to 30% of the things that you

01:20:17.800 try. And she's like, yeah, I'm all about that. And so the rest of the 70 to 80%, that was a victory

01:20:22.720 because it just ruled those things out. So you can start narrowing it down. Yeah. It's good. It's

01:20:27.540 all good. Cool. All right, man. So I think a call out, you know, let's, let's do a quick call out

01:20:34.120 around the pre-ordering the book again. I mean, I, you mentioned maybe check out Amazon or Barnes

01:20:43.020 and Noble. Is that what you mentioned earlier? Barnes and Noble. I know it's there for sure.

01:20:47.300 A hundred percent. It's on Barnes and Noble. We're going to pull up Amazon right now. It's called

01:20:52.740 masculinity, man. If I wrote it so many times, you think I'd be able to spell it? Manifesto.

01:20:58.680 Not Manifesto. Oh, you know, it's on Amazon. It is. Okay. The book cover is not accurate. That book

01:21:05.700 cover is going to change, but. And you say that because you don't like it. Is that why you bring

01:21:10.540 that up? Yeah, it's different. I don't totally like it. It's not my favorite, frankly. So I've

01:21:19.520 done a lot of work on that and I've worked with designers on that. And also the publisher didn't

01:21:24.720 like it. So. Helps. But I didn't like what they did, what they came up with. So we really had to

01:21:31.000 work with, it's been interesting working with a publisher. This is something different than I've

01:21:34.720 done in the past. So it's been an interesting process, but yeah, it's available on Amazon.

01:21:38.680 I'm saying, I'm looking at it right now and it's available on Barnes and Noble and it will be

01:21:43.000 available September 27th. So pre-orders mean a lot because my goal is to hit New York times.

01:21:48.500 So the way that that works, just so you guys know, is we have to sell a certain amount of copies

01:21:53.380 in a, in a very small window of time and all of the pre-orders for the book actually apply

01:21:59.040 to that period of time from the 27th, excuse me, until whenever, whatever that timeframe

01:22:04.140 is pre-orders count towards that. So the more, if we can make it a New York times bestseller

01:22:08.780 in the pre-orders, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. So you're going to hear me talk about this for

01:22:15.940 like six months now, but just buy the book. If you're like, man, I really like to support

01:22:21.460 Ryan. What can I do? Go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble, go to whatever bookstore you're at or

01:22:26.460 whatever, and buy a copy on Amazon. It looks like it's 25 bucks right now. Just spend 25 bucks.

01:22:33.820 Don't even read the thing. If you don't want to, I don't care. I think you should,

01:22:37.280 but it's good to buy it. That's all I care about right now. Got it. Cool. And then I think the other

01:22:44.620 just general call out is band connect with the social media at Ryan Mickler on Twitter and Instagram.

01:22:49.920 And of course the Facebook group in which we filled the questions today,

01:22:53.780 facebook.com slash group slash order, man. Anything else, sir?

01:22:58.600 That's it. Let's get after it guys. Appreciate you, Kip. Guys, good questions today. I know we only

01:23:03.520 had a few, but, um, and we got off some tangents, but I think that was a very powerful conversation.

01:23:07.620 So I hope it served you. Uh, we'll be back on Friday for your Friday field notes until then go

01:23:11.860 out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:23:15.400 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:23:20.040 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:23:25.560 And what?

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01:23:37.840 Oh yeah!

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01:23:47.460 The Command, Florida, Florida, flare now!

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What it Means to be a Man, Over-Medication of Our Youth, and Your Wife's Self-Development Journey ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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Order of Man

What it Means to be a Man, Over-Medication of Our Youth, and Your Wife&#x27;s Self-Development Journey ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

What it Means to be a Man, Over-Medication of Our Youth, and Your Wife's Self-Development Journey ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING