Order of Man - What it Means to be Wealthy, Having Conversations around Charged Topics, and Evolving as a Man

00:00:00.020 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:06.000 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.400 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.460 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.700 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:25.040 Kip, what's up, man? It's good to see you. It's been a couple of weeks since I've been on my own podcast,

00:00:28.800 which is kind of weird, but here I am back in a diminished form.

00:00:33.980 Yeah. Before the numbers got too low, you thought, you know what?

00:00:36.940 Maybe I should try to correct this ship and get involved so that way this doesn't all go to hell.

00:00:44.560 Yeah. I mean, I was thinking about calling in sick again today, but I figured, you know what?

00:00:49.020 I can't do three no-shows. I got to be here.

00:00:52.480 Yeah. You're like, my pet curting doesn't justify me not being able to talk.

00:00:57.960 I'm losing the business.

00:01:01.600 No, it's you guys. You did one with Sean, which was great. And then it was really cool to have

00:01:06.920 Drew and you on last week. You guys did a great job. So I'm never concerned when I have, in fact,

00:01:11.940 I think they're always better when other people are coming in and giving their perspective.

00:01:16.240 Everybody knows what mine is. So to have other people come in and give their insight, I think

00:01:21.560 is really cool. I don't always agree with everything that's being said, but who agrees with everything?

00:01:25.740 That'd be strange if that were the case. Totally. Well, and, and we evolve and we change and

00:01:31.200 who knows? Like, and that's, what's kind of funny and the unfortunate part I'm assuming from your

00:01:36.180 perspective, because I mean, you've been podcasting out for how long? Six.

00:01:40.380 Well, almost seven years with order of man, but almost eight years. If you count my podcast before

00:01:45.020 that, that's, and to say, if your opinions are the same as when you started seven years ago,

00:01:50.700 it's like, then you haven't grown as a, as an individual.

00:01:54.680 It is always interesting because occasionally I will get somebody who will say, well, you know,

00:02:00.100 you're saying this, but last year, and they'll take a screenshot of something I said. And I'll say,

00:02:04.000 last year, you said this, bro, that was last, that was 12 months ago. Of course I would hope that I'm

00:02:09.620 saying something different than I am 12 months later. You know, and it might actually conflict

00:02:15.580 with a thought that I had 12 months ago. And I never understood that about politics. I know

00:02:21.700 there's flip-flopping where you have somebody who's just going to flip-flop based on who they're

00:02:26.060 talking with. That's not what I'm talking about. What I am talking about is when politicians quite

00:02:31.740 literally change their opinion and perspective for, for the, for better or worse, like people are

00:02:38.300 going to change. That doesn't mean they're a flip-flopper. It just means they may look at things

00:02:42.480 differently now. And it's really our job to decipher whether or not what they're saying

00:02:46.400 today, whether it's a politician or me is still in line with what you believe and still something

00:02:52.080 that is aspirational for you, but to try to pin people into a box and assume that it can never

00:02:58.780 change. That's interesting to me. Yeah. Well, I think it illustrates the natural human behavior

00:03:07.880 for us to pigeonhole people by default, because there's a sense of prediction, predictability,

00:03:14.080 and there's a sense of comfort to be able to pigeonhole you and understand where you are.

00:03:19.740 And for you to go change that up on me, it's like, well, that disrupts my perception of you and my

00:03:26.840 ability to predict how you're going to react to things. And, and I, it's just a natural human

00:03:31.940 tendency to, and that's why we judge so easily. That's why we kind of pigeonhole people. I think

00:03:36.420 it's because there's a sense of security and understanding where people stand on, on particular

00:03:42.300 issues and being able to predict how they might respond to something. And well, like everything

00:03:50.180 else we say, just because it's human nature doesn't necessarily mean it's the ideal state.

00:03:55.020 And we need to be mindful that we do that naturally. Kind of.

00:03:58.780 I'm glad that you explained it further because when you said pigeonhole, if that's all you say,

00:04:04.280 it almost makes it sound like there's some sort of devious intent. And I think for the overwhelming

00:04:09.700 majority of the time, there really isn't. I really don't think people are trying to, to be ill intent

00:04:17.340 with it. It's just, like you said, it's human. It threatens me if you change and I attach some sort

00:04:23.480 of my worth or my self identity up in what you think. And whether you believe it or not, those of

00:04:30.640 you who listen to order of man are doing that. Yeah. And you might say, I'm not doing, no, you,

00:04:36.060 you are to varying degrees, just like I do it. When I listened to Andy Frisilla or Jocko's podcast,

00:04:42.320 I tie up some of my own sense of worth or, or who I am into what those guys are saying,

00:04:50.900 because I resonate with what they're saying. And so when they change, it threatens how I view myself.

00:04:56.840 And that's scary for a lot of people for everybody. Well, and we see this even in how

00:05:03.260 many times have we gotten a question on this podcast where some individual is getting on the

00:05:10.040 path of personal development and change. Maybe they've joined us in the iron council. They're

00:05:15.920 making necessary adjustments and there's some resistance. There's resistance from spouses,

00:05:21.760 from family members, from friends. It's a very natural process for people to resist that change,

00:05:27.900 because to your point, it shakes up the foundation of how they may perceive themselves as well as the

00:05:34.880 comfort and how they perceive their relationship with you. Yeah. Well, I think it's just something to

00:05:40.200 be very, very aware of so that we can realize what we are naturally inclined to do and then rebel against

00:05:46.940 it and say, no, I am going to change. And I am capable of evolving. And I do see this issue

00:05:52.800 differently than I saw a year ago. And that's okay. You don't need anybody's permission to do that.

00:05:58.560 You don't need to run it by anybody else. You don't, you, you, you are well within your rights and

00:06:04.540 who you are. In fact, I think it's a responsibility to evolve your thought process. So totally, totally.

00:06:09.960 And I think there's power in understanding human behavior. So when you get resistance, it's not,

00:06:15.660 it's not, you don't think that it's ill intent to your point earlier and you realize, oh, okay,

00:06:21.520 I understand why they're maybe pushing back and why I'm getting resistance because I'm shaking things

00:06:26.120 up and that's okay. And over time, there's going to, you know, there's going to be a progression in

00:06:31.380 regards to your reputation or how you're viewed by those individuals. So are you-

00:06:36.540 This, this, there's a great quote. This reminds me of, it's not exact, but it still reminds me of the

00:06:41.720 quote. And it says, never attribute to maliciousness. What should be attributed to stupidity?

00:06:52.100 Like most people, most people aren't malicious. They're just dumb and ourselves included, you know?

00:06:57.960 So yeah, they're just ignorant to this situation. That's it. That's funny. That's funny. So, uh, you,

00:07:03.500 you're strapping, you know, you got a rifle over your shoulder during the podcast today.

00:07:08.100 I'm strapped. I rip, I rip my sleeve, my arm, my biceps are too big. So I ripped my sleeve.

00:07:14.320 Yeah. A lot of guys know I finally bit the bullet and have this surgery. Um, I, so what I ended up

00:07:20.560 having, I don't know if I even told you. So it was a, we did the MRI. It's a, it's a complete

00:07:27.240 pectoral tendon rupture. So basically the pec, the pectoral muscle, and it's the major, I think

00:07:34.340 there's the major and the minor, the major completely separated from the bone and the

00:07:40.520 humorous, I think this is so completely separated from the bone. So what they do is they go in and

00:07:46.500 they drilled into my bone three holes. And then they added like buttons or something is the way

00:07:51.700 they described it. And then they take the tendon and the muscle and they pull it over and they

00:07:56.740 stretch it and they hook it to those buttons. And then over time it will heal. So I'm supposed

00:08:02.320 to be in this for six weeks and then rehab PT, all that kind of stuff will take anywhere from three to

00:08:10.840 four months. But when you say healed, the buttons are in the drilling in the bone will always be there

00:08:16.100 or will that? As far as I understand, that's a good question. I was actually thinking about that

00:08:21.040 yesterday. I actually don't know the answer to that question, whether they just dissolve or go

00:08:26.800 away, or they're small enough where the tendon just grows around it, but the tendon will eventually

00:08:31.660 connect back to the bone. Okay. Yeah. Which is ideal. Obviously that's what you want. And I don't know

00:08:36.780 if they'll just grow around the buttons or those buttons just dissipate. I don't, I don't actually

00:08:40.460 know the answer to that question. Yeah. I know that you're drugged up pretty good. I sent you a text

00:08:45.180 message and I'm like, Hey, how did the surgery go? And you're, you're like, I'm feeling groovy as

00:08:49.720 well. I'm like, I'm feeling groovy. And then I, and then I went straight business and I'm like, Hey,

00:08:55.580 here's an idea, blah, blah, blah. And then your reply back is I don't understand. And I'm like,

00:09:00.500 okay, you know what? I shouldn't be trying to talk details with a drugged individual.

00:09:06.760 I'll wait until you're sober. So no, I'm, I'm, I'm not drugged up right now. Uh, I don't even have,

00:09:12.520 like, I haven't even taken Advil or Tylenol or ibuprofen. Like I haven't taken any of that.

00:09:19.720 They gave me some narcotics. They gave me, um, yeah. Oxycodone is what they gave me,

00:09:23.940 but I haven't taken it. Not because I'm opposed to it. I'm not. Um, because it's, it's, I'll take

00:09:30.160 it if I need to, if I need to. And I haven't, because I was telling you before we hit record,

00:09:34.260 they gave me a nerve blocker. So they did a ultrasound and they, I could actually see the needle

00:09:38.560 going into my, into my shoulder. And basically it's, it, it, that's what it is. It blocks

00:09:43.960 the sensory nerves and it blocks the movement nerves. So for the past three days, cause I had

00:09:48.260 my surgery on Thursday and it's Monday as we record this, uh, I, I haven't been able to feel

00:09:55.300 or move my arm. I can, today's the first day I can really feel it. And it's not unbearable.

00:10:01.200 That sucks, man. I actually feel for you. Cause I mean, I don't know. I, I, I have a tendency not

00:10:09.440 to appreciate my health until something slightly gets wrong. Like I hurt my knee or, or something.

00:10:15.440 And then all of a sudden I'm just like, Oh, it's just frustrating not to be able to do what you love

00:10:21.000 to do, right. Whether it's working out or jujitsu and other things, it's, I don't know.

00:10:24.940 That's going to be the hardest part is not training for three months, three to four months.

00:10:28.220 Yeah. That's going to be hard. I'm going to go to training tonight. I'm not going to,

00:10:32.340 obviously I'm not going to train, but I'm going to go and just stretch. I can still move. I can

00:10:36.060 stretch. I can watch, I can observe. So I'm going to go to not. And plus I want to be around the guys,

00:10:40.040 you know, that's good for me. Uh, so, so I'll go, but yeah, it's going to be a long process and

00:10:45.720 kind of disappointed, you know, just sitting around, even just having my wife help me put my shirt on

00:10:50.840 just feels absolutely ridiculous. So, yeah. Yeah. It's, um, well,

00:10:57.820 humbling. How's that? At least it's humbling. Definitely humbling for sure. And I'll come

00:11:03.040 back better. Cause I will realize the real consequence of doing stupid things. So

00:11:07.280 copy. All right. Let's get into some questions. Yeah. So we're fielding questions today from

00:11:14.660 the iron council, uh, to learn more about the IC, go to order man.com slash iron council.

00:11:20.480 We're going to be open for what a couple more days or into this. Yeah. What's your thoughts?

00:11:24.380 Three more days. So Friday we're shutting it down. So it's Wednesday as the release of this podcast.

00:11:28.880 So today, Thursday and Friday, and then it's done. It's closed. So if you want in, you got to get in

00:11:33.900 now. Yeah. Order of man.com slash iron council. All right. Let's, let's fill these questions. Kirk

00:11:39.620 Blevins, uh, from team whiskey guys, a topic came up this past week in the battle team discussions that

00:11:46.220 hit me hard. It revolves around who could be provide fatherly advice and demonstrate what a true man

00:11:53.500 is to your children. If you were to pass away, we have a network of men within the iron council that

00:11:59.300 would come close to meeting our own standards for our children, but much less and conceivable no men

00:12:05.060 in our locality. What steps have you, each of you taken to assure that true men would be available to

00:12:10.780 demonstrate the qualities you want your children to see and learn from what advice would you give to

00:12:15.840 the men out there? I think what we have to do is it is, I really liked this question. I never,

00:12:21.480 I don't know that we've ever been asked this question, but I think you need to look at your

00:12:25.380 sphere of influence. So when it comes to your kids and specifically, you're talking about your sons,

00:12:29.420 you should be their greatest sphere of influence. You, right. And if you're gone, that's what you're

00:12:35.160 talking about. Then who's next? Well, hopefully it would be an uncle, like cousins, a grandfather

00:12:43.120 that that's ideal. Ideally that's who it'd be. It'd be uncles and grandfathers would come in

00:12:48.260 and they would take over in, in your stead. And to that point, you need to make sure that you're

00:12:55.940 going out of your way to maintain and build and develop the relationships with your, your,

00:13:02.900 your brothers, your stepbrothers, your, your in-laws, your, your father, your grandfathers,

00:13:09.520 like you need to be fostering and managing those relationships with your sons and daughters too.

00:13:14.580 So that if something ever were to happen, there isn't going to be a lull or a gap.

00:13:19.300 We just got off the phone yesterday evening, uh, with my, my in-laws. So it's my wife's parents

00:13:25.860 and my father-in-law. So, so my kids is grandfather. We're talking about fishing and they can't wait to

00:13:34.580 have them come out and go fishing again. And they're at the cabin and what fun they were having

00:13:38.800 and hunts that they're going on. And I thought to myself, you know, that's, that's pretty cool.

00:13:42.640 Like the fact that they have that relationship and they have that connection and I don't view

00:13:47.740 it as a threat. Sometimes fathers do. I don't view it as a threat. I, I view it as a value add to my

00:13:53.420 children. It means that there's going to be less of a gap if for some reason I passed away prematurely.

00:13:59.680 So that's the next sphere of influence. Then the next would be your friends. Uh, and I, I think that

00:14:05.340 would include neighbors. I think that would include, uh, clergy church members, uh, friends,

00:14:12.300 that sort of thing. And I I'm in the position where we're surrounded by a lot of good men

00:14:19.300 who are very connect. You're, you're, you're part of that. Okay. Other people who are deeply

00:14:26.020 connected and intertwined with our family. Pete Roberts is somebody, um, Joe parody, who's Pete's

00:14:32.000 father-in-law, but also a good friend of mine where these guys would come in and serve my family.

00:14:37.220 I have no doubt that they would do that. Brody Cousineau is another one. They would absolutely

00:14:42.360 100% take my children under their wing, but you know what? I foster those relationships.

00:14:48.440 In fact, I encourage my kids to go do things, not with other grown men, but in that environment.

00:14:54.100 Right? So if Brody calls up and he's like, Hey, I'm taking the boys fishing. Does Breckin want to

00:14:58.900 come? I'm like, yes, he does want to go so that he can go be with his friends, but he can be around

00:15:03.260 other men that aren't me that still have the same values, still men I trust. And, and again,

00:15:07.980 it's all about fostering those relationships. So just look at your spheres of influence.

00:15:11.780 Friends, you family, friends, and outwards from there.

00:15:16.000 I don't share this from a perspective of like thinking, let me just say this. I think it's

00:15:22.560 a good measuring stick when this conversation comes up with friends. I actually have a friend

00:15:28.220 that they've communicated to my wife and I, that if they were to pass away, they'd want us to raise

00:15:34.120 their kids. It's awesome. It's powerful. What an honor. And to be frank, I was just like, really?

00:15:39.720 Like, man, like I really like took that to heart and it really forced even Asia and I to have that

00:15:47.100 conversation of like, Hey, where do our kids go? Where would we want them to go to? And so have the

00:15:52.080 conversation. Ryan, you said something that I think is profound. How, how do you, how do you not be

00:15:59.760 threatened by these other men in their lives? Cause you mentioned that, right? It's like establishing

00:16:04.980 these relationships. And you mentioned that some men do get threatened, right? By your son,

00:16:09.600 possibly looking up to a coach or looking up to a friend, another man. And some guys might be

00:16:15.440 hearing this conversation with that idea that they might be threatened. Where does that come from? Or

00:16:21.300 what do we need to do? Or how do we need to show up to mitigate that concern that might block some guys

00:16:26.640 from establishing these kinds of relationships? You really need to consider what your ultimate

00:16:34.440 objective is as a father and how do you measure success? So I look at fatherhood like this and

00:16:41.340 there it's nuanced and there's a lot of factors that come into play, but if we strip all of that away,

00:16:46.680 it's my job to render myself obsolete. That means that if my children can go out into the world and

00:16:52.660 they can be self-sustaining, they can be value add to their communities and their families and their

00:16:57.860 friends, uh, they can support and they can grow and they can have jobs and they can make money and

00:17:03.220 they can have experiences and they can contribute and share with other people, then I feel like I've

00:17:07.540 done my job well. I don't consider it my job as a father to feel good about this fatherhood thing,

00:17:14.840 like doing it from a selfish standpoint. Right. If I'm, if I measured my performance as a father,

00:17:24.160 based on how good I feel about the job I'm doing, then I'm going to be more threatened by somebody

00:17:31.160 else stepping in and adding something to my son's or daughter's life. But again, because I measure my

00:17:38.640 standard of fatherhood and fathering as rendering myself obsolete, then I'm already looking for ways

00:17:45.400 to render myself up today. So when my, my kids, my two oldest boys, they go to a powerlifting three

00:17:52.960 days a week with coach Sean Moore. I'm not threatened by Sean. In fact, when they come, I used to be a

00:17:59.800 little bit, I will say that, but cause they'd come back and they're like, well, you know, he does this

00:18:03.120 and this and this. And I'm, you know, I got sick of hearing about it, but, but now I'm like, no,

00:18:08.240 that's, I actually edify Sean. I talk favorably about Sean to my boys. So when they say, yeah,

00:18:15.320 coach had me doing X, Y, and Z. I'm like, well, that's great. He's a good coach. Listen to him.

00:18:19.660 He's going to lead you right. He's going to steer you in the right direction. He's going to take care

00:18:23.020 of you. Cause again, I need to render myself obsolete. You can't get all of your advice and inputs

00:18:30.020 about life from me. If you do, I'm not doing my job. Yeah. So it's, it's how you define what your

00:18:37.360 role is. That's going to determine your behavior towards that objective. Love it. Sam Broadway.

00:18:44.840 If you hosted an order a man event on your property for men and their sons, and a man showed up with a

00:18:50.500 transgender kid, biological daughter, trying to be a boy, how would you approach this situation?

00:18:55.260 I'm, I'm really glad that he brought this question up and I was thinking about it. I'm like,

00:19:00.460 cause I saw these questions. I was thinking, yeah, should I, should I broach this topic? Should

00:19:05.460 I not? No, I should broach this topic. And I thought a lot about how I would handle that. And here's,

00:19:11.680 here's how I would handle it. I would approach that man in private and I would ask him to leave.

00:19:18.560 Hmm. And I know that's not going to be a favorable thing. I know people aren't going to like that,

00:19:24.880 uh, what a feelings get hurt and they might, but it's not appropriate for a girl, a young woman

00:19:31.060 to be at our event for fathers and sons. Bottom line. Yeah. And so here's what I would do. So I

00:19:38.760 would, I would approach that father in private, you know, privately, this could be a private question.

00:19:42.980 And I would say, if I knew that was the case, I would say, Hey, you know, I'm going to have to ask

00:19:47.240 you to, to not participate. I'm going to refund your, your, your ticket cost for the event.

00:19:53.800 And I'm going to help you. I'm going to help cover flights. Like I'm going to go out of my way to

00:19:57.360 make sure you guys are, I'm not going to put you out. And, and explain and have, have this

00:20:02.620 conversation. Yeah. That's a, that is a young woman. That's not appropriate for a young woman to be

00:20:08.760 at an event for young boys. It's just not, this is not a co-ed event. This is an event for fathers

00:20:16.020 and sons. And I know people say, well, she's trying to become a boy and this, I don't, it doesn't

00:20:21.620 matter to me. She's a biological woman, young woman, and that's the end of it. Period. So I,

00:20:31.100 it's really hard because most people won't say that. And that's not even going to be a popular answer,

00:20:36.800 but that's what we need. We need people who are actually willing to stand by their convictions.

00:20:41.440 So I will have every bit of empathy that I can for that father and his daughter. I will be there

00:20:47.020 to help support and, and, and do what I can, but not at the expense of our mission. And that puts

00:20:54.520 our mission at risk. And I'm not willing to do that. Yeah. And I feel you said something you said

00:21:03.520 that most people wouldn't say this, but, but do you think that most people would agree though?

00:21:08.600 Or, I mean, I guess it doesn't necessarily matter, but I do actually think most people would agree.

00:21:12.860 They just wouldn't say it in fear of backlash probably. Yeah. That's, but that's the, that's

00:21:18.900 one of the biggest problems. Yeah. The fact that I even contemplated not even addressing this question

00:21:24.660 is part of the problem. We actually need to be talking about these things because these are real

00:21:30.340 issues that we need to deal with and we need to confront and we need to discuss, and we don't

00:21:35.040 have to agree. You don't have to like what I believe, but that's what I think. And I'm going

00:21:41.140 to stand by it. Yeah. Adam Lewis, with all the contention around the repeal of Roe versus Wade,

00:21:49.180 new title, uh, transports and so on, how can we, as men of example, have productive conversations

00:21:55.780 when many don't want to follow boundaries and other structures besides just avoiding them.

00:22:00.580 I have worked to just avoid those types of people because of the, um, aforementioned issues that

00:22:07.080 seems to almost be unavoidable anymore. Well, you use the, excuse me, the term productive, um,

00:22:16.020 conversations. You can't have productive conversations with people who don't want to

00:22:20.560 have productive conversations. It's like a dance. There's at least two partners in the dance

00:22:25.460 and it's gotta be somewhat choreographed, you know, maybe a little freestyle when you're talking

00:22:30.640 about conversation, but there are rules, right? And there's, there's rules that we both have to agree

00:22:36.480 whether they're spoken or unspoken, there's rules to conversation. And if you're not willing to play by

00:22:42.960 my rules, then I'm not going to dance. It's as simple as that. Yeah. And I might have to explain the

00:22:49.700 rules to somebody. Let's say I wanted to have a conversation with you and you started crossing

00:22:54.060 over some boundaries that I had in place. I feel like I would owe it to you to at least communicate

00:22:59.440 what those boundaries are and explain to you the rules. Kip, here's how I expect this conversation to

00:23:05.700 go. You're not going to attack me personally. You're not going to name call. You're not going to

00:23:10.200 shout and scream and be emotional and irrational. And if you are, then you can do that on your own and I'm

00:23:16.020 out. Or if you'd like to have a rational, real discussion, I'm happy to do that with you.

00:23:21.680 So I'll give you an example. Yesterday I had made a post, um, about my, my wife and I had been married.

00:23:29.060 We celebrated, uh, over the weekend, 18 years of marriage. Thank you very much. And I said that we

00:23:37.620 waited to have sex before marriage. And when we wanted to have sex, but we weren't ready for kids,

00:23:45.180 we used timing and we used contraception. Yeah. And now we have four kids, all of them planned for

00:23:52.240 all of them wanted, all of them loved. And obviously, um, and I put in the caption planned

00:23:58.660 parenthood, you know, like I don't know how to get a rise out of people. And I, and I do that,

00:24:03.760 but I believe what I say, right. And I believe what I'm sharing. And, you know, I had a guy talk,

00:24:11.920 he says, well, what about cases of rape and incest is what he said. And I've been playing

00:24:17.780 the game long enough that I know when people are trying to play games and trying to paint you into

00:24:24.340 a corner. So I wrote back and said, I'll tell, I said, if, if there was an exception for rape and

00:24:32.460 incest and, uh, life risk to the mother, would you then, would you then support an abortion ban

00:24:41.040 for everything, but those exceptions? And he wrote back, no, I'm not going to answer that question

00:24:46.440 until you answer my question. And I said, no, you, I think you're playing a game and I'm not willing

00:24:52.240 to answer that question until I believe that your question is sincere. So if you want to answer that

00:24:59.340 question, then I'll go ahead and answer yours. Well, no, you should answer mine. Cause I look,

00:25:04.560 I'm the one that has, that's having the conversation. So are you, I have rules I'm

00:25:09.640 playing by. If you don't want to abide by those rules, I don't play. If I'm not abiding by your

00:25:15.200 rules, you don't have to play. There's nowhere written that says that I'm obligated to engage in

00:25:20.520 conversation that I don't like the direction of. And those people will use all sorts of little tricks.

00:25:26.820 They'll attack you. They'll mock you. Um, they'll, they'll attempt to undermine you.

00:25:32.740 They'll misrepresent arguments. They'll resort to ad hominem attacks. Like they'll do all sorts of

00:25:37.940 things to try to engage you in the conversation. But at the end of the day, if the rules aren't

00:25:43.400 played by your rules, just don't play the game. Yeah. Because there are plenty of people

00:25:48.980 and there were actually in this post, it was fairly respectful in this post, which I was surprised

00:25:53.860 about. There was some comments, but that's bound to happen. But the overwhelming majority,

00:25:57.940 even in dissent of what I had said, were very respectful. And I'm willing to engage in that

00:26:04.080 conversation. And I was very respectful to everybody who commented, whether they agreed

00:26:09.320 with me or not, or were rude or not. I was very respectful. I made it a point to be that way.

00:26:13.820 And I'm willing to have those conversations. If you abide by those rules, there's plenty of people

00:26:18.240 out there who will have conversations in a mature, rational way. So there's just no reason to waste

00:26:23.780 time on those who aren't interested. Yeah. Well, and I think it's powerful. Kind of what we were

00:26:30.260 talking about earlier is understanding intent and human behavior. I can't help even last night. I,

00:26:37.060 or actually this morning when I was working out this thought into my mind, it's, it's funny how

00:26:41.620 you can take a polarizing conversation or, you know, whether it's politically charged or,

00:26:47.780 you know, whatever social issue, whatever that particular item might be. And we take people's

00:26:54.080 emotional response, like their strong emotional response as a sign of importance of the issue.

00:27:02.760 In reality, it's the opposite. What's really happening. If you're emotionally charged, Ryan,

00:27:09.180 over a conversation that you and I are having, why are you emotionally charged? Is it because it's

00:27:13.440 really important to you? No, most cases when we get emotionally charged something, it's because

00:27:17.980 it's a very selfish, like what it means about you. That's why, that's why you get fired up. That's

00:27:23.540 why your adrenaline gets rushed. That's why we, people often start leaning in the direction of

00:27:28.740 attacking other individuals, because it's not about the issue. It's actually about something else.

00:27:33.060 And AKA, it's a little illogical. And the conversation is not about the issue. It's now

00:27:40.380 about me validating my opinion and you disrupting, you know, and, and if you're making that issue

00:27:45.500 wrong in my eyes, then it's a reflection of me. And now we're not even talking about the issue anymore.

00:27:49.820 Now we're just talking about you feeling good about yourself.

00:27:52.980 Yeah. And we're winning the argument, right? You'll hear like people just want to win the argument.

00:27:56.740 I look, here's a, here's the bottom line. I actually don't care about some things.

00:28:05.040 You know, I'll make a post about abortion or transgender, just since we're talking about

00:28:11.080 these issues or gun rights or whatever, right? Whatever the topic is. And inevitably there'll be

00:28:17.020 one or two people who be like, well, you know, you're addressing this, but what about the starving

00:28:20.760 kids in Ethiopia? Like we have bigger problems to worry about. I'm like, well, how about you worry

00:28:26.020 about that problem then? Yeah. I'm picking this problem. Yeah. Right. I can't address all the

00:28:30.960 problems that, that the entire world faces at any given time, nor do I want to, nor do I care about

00:28:36.960 every problem. Like some problems just aren't on my radar, whether it's because I'm ignorant to them

00:28:42.720 or they're just not important. Or alternatively, I have resources, a finite amount of resources,

00:28:48.600 and I have to direct them towards the problem of men, the problem of raising young men,

00:28:54.480 the problem of masculinity in society. And so that's where I'm going to direct my attention.

00:28:58.960 And it doesn't mean that other problems are less important. I would just encourage you to deal with

00:29:04.620 those problems because the world needs all of the problems addressed and I can only address so many.

00:29:09.080 So you do yours and I'll do mine. And then the 8 billion people on the planet, hopefully collectively

00:29:14.880 through our combined efforts can solve a lot of the problems we're dealing with.

00:29:19.080 Yeah. I mean, let's be frank, right? The differences, they're not addressing any problem.

00:29:23.060 They just have an, an opinion about a problem, right? And are they actually doing something

00:29:29.540 about it? And the difference is those that are actually doing something about a problem,

00:29:34.940 choose a problem. Those that, Oh, I'm going to focus on all these problems. They're not doing

00:29:39.020 anything. They're just running their mouse and, and like, you know, their social media post is

00:29:44.180 quote unquote, them helping to address a problem. Let's be frank.

00:29:47.200 Yeah. I agree. And there's all sorts of ways to address problems. You know, I think about sex,

00:29:52.680 sex trafficking, human trafficking. And I, two people that come to mind are Tim Tebow and Tim

00:29:58.840 Bellard. Yeah. You know, that, that, those are not my, those are not my issues. I realize they're

00:30:06.260 important. I'm not saying they're not, they're extremely important. Those guys are doing a phenomenal

00:30:11.220 job. So I give them my platform to be able to talk about it. I send them financial resources so they

00:30:17.520 can continue to fight that. And I engage in a way that's meaningful for me. Now I'm probably not going

00:30:22.180 to be the next, you know, CEO or president of their nonprofit, but I can send them a few bucks every

00:30:28.200 month. You know, I can have one of them on my podcast to talk about the issues they're dealing

00:30:32.780 with and ask questions and give them a bigger platform. So, I mean, we can help in all sorts of

00:30:37.580 different ways, just find a way that's meaningful for you. Yeah. Kind of in lines with, with that

00:30:43.000 question, a tad Johnny Loretty, he asked, how does a man allocate his efforts across his fear of

00:30:49.380 influence, personal, family, local community, and a larger community in regards to big topic issues.

00:30:54.440 So really maybe some tips around allocating his efforts across those fears.

00:30:59.320 I wish I could give you a formula. I don't know what it is, but this goes back to what I was saying

00:31:03.700 earlier about sphere of influence. The greatest amount of my resources, that's my time, energy,

00:31:10.280 capacity, money is focused on where it can be leveraged the most. So if I'm going to put $10,000

00:31:18.680 towards something, that $10,000 is going to go into this business because that's where it's going to be

00:31:27.840 leveraged the most. I have the biggest platform. I know what I'm talking about. I have all the

00:31:31.500 technology in place. I have the connections secured. That $10,000 is going to be spent

00:31:36.860 significantly better here than it might be with ABC organization over there. And that's not to say

00:31:42.520 again, that that's not important, but I might throw $1,000 at ABC organization and $10,000

00:31:48.080 towards, towards this organization. You really just have to feel it. I'll have people reach out all the

00:31:56.340 time and we'll say, Hey Ryan, I've got, I had a friend of mine. He reached out. He's like, Hey,

00:31:59.420 we've got this young kid. Uh, he's in, um, jujitsu and he's a good competitor. And I really

00:32:07.640 think he could do something, but he comes from a home where they don't have a lot of money.

00:32:10.700 Can you contribute? You know, and I would have liked to have contributed a thousand dollars or

00:32:15.000 something to him. And I, I messaged the guy and I said, Hey man, I really appreciate you want me to

00:32:19.440 contribute. I can give him a hundred bucks and I hope that helps. You know, it's not a lot, but I hope

00:32:24.600 it helps him. And I said, the majority of where I put my money goes into my community

00:32:29.720 because this is where I live. And these are the young men and young women who are important,

00:32:35.320 more important. I'm trying to figure out the way to say it. They're just, it's just,

00:32:39.700 there's no good way to say it. It's just a higher priority. It's just where I can be more effective

00:32:44.920 with it. And so I, you know, I sent that young man a hundred dollars and I hope other people do too.

00:32:49.700 And I hope he's successful and he, he takes off with his career and it really leads him onto a good

00:32:54.060 path. Uh, and so I feel like I did my part. I couldn't do as much as I would have liked, but

00:32:58.780 you know, you do what you can and you let the chips fall where they may. But I think you got to

00:33:02.400 really spend some time prioritizing what's important to you and then learning to be good with letting

00:33:08.040 other people, you know, here's one thought too, is even with what we're doing with this organization,

00:33:14.220 order of man. We are really empowering men to go out and serve their communities.

00:33:20.120 We are empowering men to make more money so they can give back. We are empowering men to

00:33:24.820 get ahold of their financial resources. So they have more time to be able to serve within their

00:33:29.160 communities. So that's pretty powerful knowing that we're leveraging all of this information.

00:33:35.320 So guys can go out and serve in a meaningful way. That's kind of cool.

00:33:39.580 Yeah, totally. Dustin Kin, my wife and I have been separated for six months. Now things fell

00:33:46.740 apart about a month into our marriage. There has been unfaithfulness on both sides, but I don't want

00:33:52.220 to give up. And I'm three months sober. How do I show up in our relationship when she is cold and

00:33:58.400 distant, man, there's a lot of red flags here. Like more so than a typical separation. Six months is a

00:34:06.260 long time. That's a long separation. And fell apart within a month. Yeah. Yeah. That those two

00:34:12.560 things combined probably make me think differently of this situation than I would normally think. I

00:34:20.640 don't know how long you guys were together beforehand. I don't know if you have kids,

00:34:23.740 you didn't mention kids. So I'm assuming you don't, I think you would have mentioned that if that was the

00:34:28.060 case, um, I would really ask if she wants to be in this relationship at all. I mean, I hate to say

00:34:36.940 that I really do. I want it to work out. And so what I would tell you to do is to focus on your

00:34:42.560 friends and family, your job, your career. And so when I, let me back up. No, let me say like this

00:34:50.100 friends and family, job and career, your fitness and, um, different pursuits that are bigger than

00:34:55.940 yourself. Those are the four things that I would say that you should focus on. So let's break those

00:34:59.280 down. Friends and family, you should develop good, strong friendships with high caliber men.

00:35:05.780 And you should work on shoring up relationships that you have with your family.

00:35:10.680 Career wise, you should develop new skills and, and learn how to manage your money better and start

00:35:16.480 getting promotions or maybe start a side job or a side hustle, uh, or, or a business with your

00:35:23.520 fitness, lock in your, your nutrition, lock in your exercise. And then with that last component

00:35:27.920 is contributing, giving back is learning how to become a man of value. So coaching a little league

00:35:33.560 team, um, doing a big brothers, big sisters type program, serving at your local community center,

00:35:39.520 uh, whatever that looks like, finding a way to give back. If you focus on those four things,

00:35:45.440 man, at that point, you can almost just let the chips fall where they may.

00:35:49.660 And it's either going to work or it's not. So that's what I would say to focus on for yourself.

00:35:54.460 But what I would also probably do in your situation is I would have a real good,

00:35:59.160 honest look and discussion with her about the viability of this relationship.

00:36:05.560 A month into it, you had problems. She's got fidelity issues. You've got fidelity issues.

00:36:12.120 You've been separated for six months. I don't know if she's still sleeping around or if you are,

00:36:17.040 but there's some real big problems here. And the last thing I would want to have happen is for you

00:36:23.180 to, to feel like, Oh, maybe we should try to make it work. And you try to make it work.

00:36:26.460 And then you have a kid together and then it all falls apart in 13 or 18 months.

00:36:31.640 Totally.

00:36:32.600 This, I hate to say it. I don't, in fact, I don't even know if it's right,

00:36:36.520 but I just see red flags all over this situation where maybe it's not actually supposed to

00:36:42.880 be this way. When my wife and I went through our separation, the way it was different for us

00:36:47.840 is we were together for five years at that point. Uh, we, we had been dating for, for two years.

00:36:58.020 We had a kid, like there was some other reasons that I had to make sure it worked.

00:37:04.220 This is different to me. Does it seem different to you?

00:37:09.680 Totally. I mean, when that short amount of time, I don't know, like, I, I mean, there's red flags

00:37:15.880 around the fidelity side. There's, there's red flags of a month in, right? Like you guys aren't

00:37:20.740 even ready for this. Right. I mean, don't get me wrong. I remember the first couple of months of

00:37:24.180 marriage. I was like, Holy shit. Nobody's ready. This is super hard. Right. But in the same breath,

00:37:30.140 your guys's willingness to throw up your hands that quickly is obviously maybe you guys aren't

00:37:37.800 in position yet for this level of commitment and something that important. And the only reason why

00:37:42.260 you're quote unquote, unwilling to give it up is maybe out of fear or some other means, right?

00:37:48.380 So I'd get really connected to why don't you want to call it quits? I mean, let's be frank. You guys

00:37:55.000 have called it quits. You have, you want to be cheating on her and vice versa. If you guys were

00:38:01.840 committed to each other. So you're obviously not committed. So the question is, is why are you even

00:38:06.760 considering it? And where's that rooted in? And we don't know that answer. Obviously you would,

00:38:12.160 but, and we're making assumptions too, you know, but I'm just hearing that. And I'm like, man,

00:38:19.220 warning signs all, but look again, I it's, it's good advice to focus on yourself. Like I told you

00:38:25.980 to, that's always going to pay you dividends. And it's good advice to have a real serious look

00:38:30.840 and contemplation and talk with her about the viability of this. Those are the two things I

00:38:36.120 would definitely address. And the one thing, when you said the viability of it is I would make sure

00:38:41.400 that you're having the conversation of what does this look like? And, and having a conversation

00:38:47.280 around the expectations that you guys have about each other. And let's be Frank, I would address,

00:38:52.420 if you were going to have a relationship with her, you got to address the issue.

00:38:57.720 Like, don't, don't, it's like, Oh, reset. No, no, no. Wait, let's be Frank here. You guys just

00:39:03.640 destroyed trust with one another in a very substantial way. If you don't address why that

00:39:09.040 happened and how you guys were able to commit to each other into marriage and then bell on each other,

00:39:15.860 you got to address that. Otherwise that shit's just going to happen again. So don't brush that

00:39:21.500 under the rug and like, okay, we're all good now. It's like, actually you're not, you didn't address

00:39:25.660 the issue. And, and if you, and if she's not willing to have that conversation, then worst case,

00:39:32.000 you need to address that issue. Why did you do that? And if the answer is like, because she did,

00:39:38.000 that's bullshit. That's you still need to address it because you're out of integrity. So you need to

00:39:43.820 address why you went out of integrity. I agree. And get yourself in integrity. I think if you're

00:39:48.600 in integrity, you have more room to stand on. And I think you're going to be a lot more clear too

00:39:53.080 about whether or not you want this relationship to continue. Cause I can't imagine being a man of

00:39:58.280 integrity. Like you're doing everything that you need to do. You're doing everything right. You're

00:40:02.180 not stepping out. You're being faithful. You're honoring your word. You're committed to her.

00:40:05.460 You're committed to your kids. And then she goes out and is that way. I think that becomes

00:40:11.420 a more, uh, an easier decision to make if you're completely an integrity. So maybe there's the

00:40:20.280 issue. Maybe you're clouded. Cause you're not an integrity. Yeah. Tough situation nonetheless.

00:40:26.800 It's tough. It's tough. Well, and I'm glad he's in the IC with us, right? So lean on your battle team

00:40:32.400 and, you know, work through this and, and communicate this to them, obviously not just to us,

00:40:37.800 you know, for the podcast, this should be a conversation within your, your battle brothers

00:40:42.820 with your battle brothers. So, yep. All right. Let's, let's jump over to Facebook, um, facebook.com

00:40:48.880 slash group slash order of man, uh, Jack, this is a question actually from last week and, and I skipped

00:40:54.640 it obviously because I have no response and it's really kind of geared towards you very specifically,

00:41:00.420 Ryan, but he says, what are three ways to make money while having a podcast? What, what are some

00:41:05.180 strategies around, um, making it as a stream of income? I never really considered the podcast a

00:41:12.060 revenue source from a marketing. It's more of a marketing funnel. Um, so you guys will hear us

00:41:18.820 talk about the events or the iron council or our merchandise. And so it becomes a marketing division

00:41:25.700 like email would be your direct ads or something. It becomes a marketing component. That's how I've

00:41:32.040 always looked at podcasting. You can make money directly from podcasting, uh, through advertising

00:41:37.420 and that that's how that would work, but you need to have a very large audience to make any sort of

00:41:43.020 money. We do at this point. And I can make a lot more money, five figures a month. If I was selling

00:41:48.080 ads, which we don't write. So there's two ad models in podcasting. The first model is affiliate,

00:41:55.240 an affiliate model where, um, let's say ABC company, let's say there's a hat company and

00:42:01.900 they wanted me to sell their hats for every hat for every $25 hat I sold. I made $2 on it.

00:42:08.160 Got it. That's an affiliate model. Um, it works well with courses too. Like some guy I'll come in,

00:42:14.040 he's like, Hey, I have a four week course on self-confidence. It's $500. And for every person

00:42:18.380 you refer that signs up for this course, you're going to make 50 bucks. That's an affiliate model.

00:42:22.460 There's the other ad model where it's, I will pay you per listener. And so there's a formula

00:42:30.060 that's used and, and they'll say, you know, I'll pay you X amount of dollars, $20 per listener that

00:42:36.320 you have per read that you do. And it's just a formula, whether you sell anything or not as

00:42:40.300 irrelevant, it's just an ad. And that's another way to make money podcasting outside of that.

00:42:45.740 There's a lot of different ways there's physical products. So that would be hats, shirts, merchandise,

00:42:50.080 battle planners, that sort of thing. Uh, there's coaching is another opportunity. If you have a

00:42:55.740 skillset in something you could coach. Uh, I also consider consulting, which is similar to what you

00:43:02.020 do actually Kip is more of a consulting basis. That's coaching consulting. Uh, you could sell

00:43:07.380 digital assets. So that might be an ebook or an online course you can offer memberships, which is

00:43:15.020 what the iron council is. You pay X amount of dollars a month and you make this much money.

00:43:19.340 Uh, you can offer events, which is also something we do main event, legacy uprising, these sorts of

00:43:26.200 things. Uh, and then I think I covered it. Those are the ways that you make money in this space,

00:43:32.560 in this environment. And we make money doing all of those things. Yeah. I was going to say,

00:43:36.680 I think you've thought about this before. So yeah, of course. I mean, this is crucial. Like

00:43:43.420 it's always interesting when people say, well, you know, Ryan, aren't you doing this out of the

00:43:47.200 goodness of my heart? Well, yes, I am. And I also like making, make, making money doing it.

00:43:51.860 It's an awesome that you can align those two things. Yeah. Yeah. And I need money to be able

00:43:56.880 to do this at a, at a greater capacity. You get, you remember when we started the iron council,

00:44:00.860 it's a shed. It was a shell of what it is now, but I needed financial capital to be able to build it

00:44:06.620 to what it is now. If I attempted to do this where it is now without the resources, it just would have

00:44:12.580 flopped. So there's a lot of different ways to make money. And we tap into all of them.

00:44:20.600 Yeah. Tristan Shinzel, what is the next big issue you'd like the Supreme court to address?

00:44:26.920 I thought this question's about, um, or, or, well, go ahead.

00:44:33.840 I, I don't know. I don't, I don't really think too much about it. Actually. I think abortion was

00:44:38.460 obviously the big issue. And I, and I believe they got that one, right? People are up in arms.

00:44:42.700 My thought is, Hey, look, it's people's I've, I've heard people say that, uh, democracy is under

00:44:48.820 attack. I'm like, no, actually it's better. No, it's moving closer to, to more of a, a Republic

00:44:57.940 where it's going to the States and then States can vote and enact laws based on what their voters

00:45:06.520 want. Like, I don't, I don't think here in rural Maine, we're going to generally vote like Southern

00:45:11.740 Californians do. So why should Southern Californians dictate what rural Mainers do? They shouldn't.

00:45:18.000 So it's actually more Republic, more of a Republic than it was just three days ago when Roe v. Wade was

00:45:24.500 still intact. Yeah. Um, well, that's why I liked this question by Tristan is because it's like, well,

00:45:29.480 the Supreme court didn't address it. The Supreme court said we shouldn't be addressing it.

00:45:34.520 Right. This is not, this is not a constitutional thing. So we shouldn't have been playing in the

00:45:40.080 sandbox to begin with. That's right. That's exactly right. Uh, there was some, some victories,

00:45:45.440 uh, with a, with a, uh, if I understand correctly and I'm not well-versed in this, so forgive me,

00:45:51.220 but, uh, I think that the state of New York had put a law in place or an enacted some sort of

00:45:58.120 legislation that said that concealed carry holders needed to have a, and I don't know the exact

00:46:03.440 terminology, but a viable or a legitimate reason as to why to carry a concealed carry in,

00:46:08.960 in the state of New York and the Supreme court struck that down. I think that's a win for the

00:46:13.660 second amendment rights, because it doesn't say in the constitution that you need to have a reason

00:46:19.100 to carry a firearm. It's very clear. I got it. I don't, I don't really think, yeah, I really don't

00:46:26.300 think you need to be a constitutional scholar to understand some of these things, but I would

00:46:30.720 actually love to see concealed carry, um, basically available at in any state everywhere. But again,

00:46:41.020 it's going to be up to each state to dictate that. So, but I don't think that any state should have

00:46:48.360 any sort of concealed carry requirement or permit or anything like that. It should just be open for

00:46:53.140 everybody. I, I feel right. Let me, let me know what you think of this, because I, I don't know.

00:46:58.780 I just feel inclined to saying this, that we, we need to be, I think so many people are puppets

00:47:06.700 to political dialogue, right? They're up in arms. Why? Because someone said I was supposed to be up in

00:47:14.820 arms because I've associated myself with a, with a political group and, and I, I've, I've handed over

00:47:22.020 my logical thinking to, and then I just, I latch onto whatever the thing is. It's like you're, you're,

00:47:28.480 we are, we, because even I get sucked into things. We are often being asked to be puppets

00:47:36.040 for someone else in an attempt to be controlled. And I really do believe that. I think a lot of the

00:47:42.160 political parties and news outlets for that matter, generate tons of hype because they want you to be

00:47:46.820 fired up because that allows them to, you know what I mean? Point the finger and make another

00:47:51.220 party bad. And, and, and just, I don't know, I, I, at least my suggestion and my thought is own your

00:47:57.540 emotional opinion, logically think it's not as simple as a headline, understand the details before

00:48:04.320 being so quickly to jump on the bandwagon of some, you know, talking point without no logical

00:48:10.760 understanding on your own, or at least thinking it through on your own side of things.

00:48:14.600 Yeah. I don't think you're wrong, but I think it is also important to be involved. And I,

00:48:23.320 and I'm not saying that you're saying we shouldn't, I don't think that, but there are people and I,

00:48:28.220 and I see it and I've even made comments like this where it's, you know, just, just wake up and work

00:48:34.340 out and love your wife and be good and everything will work out. I'm like, well, that's cute, but

00:48:39.000 that's not reality either. Yeah. You know, like you, we can't just bury our heads in the sand and live

00:48:43.940 in our own little, our own little system and think that the world around us is going to operate

00:48:49.000 correctly. Like we do have to get involved. I had a good conversation with, uh, with a friend of

00:48:55.000 mine, Ian, he owns Patriot gear and he had made a comment about freedom, how he thinks we should be

00:49:00.620 free to, he doesn't agree with abortion, but free to choose abortion, free to, to choose to drink or do

00:49:06.360 drugs. And I said, look, man, like, I don't agree with that. Like everybody has a limit on freedom.

00:49:13.180 Everybody, like there's nobody out there who believes that we should have freedom for everything.

00:49:17.560 There's not a soul out there who believes that we all have lines, right? And that, and that line

00:49:22.880 might be abortion or it might be gun rights, or it might be murdering, or it might be speeding,

00:49:27.800 but everybody has a line that you're not free to do X, Y, and Z, whatever that is for you.

00:49:32.780 And we had a really good discussion about, about that line. And he said, well, should,

00:49:39.340 should we respect that people have the right to do it? And I said, well, it really just depends

00:49:43.120 what you mean by respect. If you mean that people do have the right to get an abortion because it's

00:49:48.760 not illegal, then I guess, yes, that's true. But if you mean I should, I should honor and celebrate

00:49:55.640 and fight for that, right. For them to have an abortion. No, I'm certainly not going to do that.

00:50:01.280 Why would I do that? In fact, I have a moral obligation and responsibility

00:50:05.260 to fight for legislation and morality. And they're not always the same that I believe is in the best

00:50:14.340 interest of me, my family, the people I care about and the citizens of this country. And he said,

00:50:19.280 you know, again, very respectful discussion because him and I are friends and we think highly of each

00:50:23.420 other. At least I think highly of him. I don't know if he thinks highly of me. I don't want to put

00:50:26.560 words in his mouth. Um, you know, and he's like, well, yeah, but, but, you know, we don't want to

00:50:31.920 infringe on people's rights. And it's like, just because I say that a person shouldn't do a certain

00:50:37.840 thing or shouldn't be right, behave a certain way. That doesn't mean that I'm infringing upon their

00:50:42.620 rights. It means that I have an opinion about it and I have every right to share it. And I should be

00:50:50.120 sharing it because I would like the direction of the country to go in this direction and you don't

00:50:56.180 have to agree with it. And so you might want it to go in that direction. Neither one of us has to be

00:51:00.280 quiet. I can think you're wrong and you can think I'm wrong. And I could, I could vehemently defend my

00:51:05.440 position and you could do the same. And both of us are well, well within our rights and our

00:51:09.480 responsibility as citizens of this country. Yeah. And the, the, the absence of that conversation

00:51:16.220 and the coddling of other people's opinions and making sure we don't offend them is far greater

00:51:24.200 of an issue than us having dialogue and debating and discussing. Yeah. I just think there's too many

00:51:31.140 people who are like, well, you're just trying to shut down dissenting opinions. I'm like, no,

00:51:34.420 I just think you're an idiot. Yeah. Like I'm not trying to shut it down, but if you called me an idiot,

00:51:40.300 I wouldn't say that you're trying to shut down a conversation. You just think I'm an idiot period.

00:51:45.720 And that's okay. You can think that, but I don't think that you're trying to shut down. I don't

00:51:50.560 think there's any sort of great threat to democracy by you calling me an idiot. I don't think we should

00:51:55.540 be throwing those insults around. I think we should debate the issue, not the person's character

00:52:00.540 necessarily, unless that's the question. But yeah, it's, people are so quick to, well, you're just

00:52:07.860 trying to shut down my opinion. Well, that's just your, yeah. Okay. Like let's not be so fragile.

00:52:13.320 So yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. Christopher William Baker,

00:52:19.920 hardest part about Brazilian jujitsu for you personally? I don't know. I don't train anymore.

00:52:26.180 So, um, this movement right here is kind of the hardest pushing. No, it's more of the butterfly.

00:52:34.600 The butterfly is out here. Yeah. Yeah. The hardest part of jujitsu.

00:52:40.020 Are we talking about a psychological or we're talking about like the physical part of the game?

00:52:46.040 I don't know. We could do both for me. The psychological is not seeing improvement fast

00:52:50.700 enough. That's the hardest part for me. Like there's, there's psychologically, I'm not,

00:52:55.940 I don't get concerned about going. I'm not scared. I don't, there's no apprehension about it.

00:53:01.360 Like none of that. And maybe there was when I started, but, and I haven't been training a long

00:53:05.940 time, three plus years. Um, that's just not an issue, but the hardest part for me is like

00:53:11.140 psychologically, like, gosh, dang, I'm not getting as good as I would like as quickly as I would like.

00:53:15.960 And that can be very frustrating. Well, what would you say from a psychological standpoint?

00:53:20.560 I always thought jujitsu has these highs and lows, right? Like you can be on a high and you're like,

00:53:25.640 man, I'm training great. I feel great. I'm, you know, dominating on the mat a little bit. Like

00:53:31.680 you, you just have some high confidence and it just always feels that you can feel that way one

00:53:37.340 day. And then the next day you just get your ass handed to you by everybody. And then it's just

00:53:42.480 like, damn, I suck. Right. So, so being okay, you know, I guess the, um, what's that old biblical,

00:53:51.060 it's not actually biblical. Well, I always think it's a biblical phrase, but the, you know, this too

00:53:55.320 shall pass having that mentality that like being okay with wherever you are. And if you're in the dip,

00:54:00.880 then that's okay. And, and not making it mean something. I, I have intensity when I'm in that

00:54:06.260 dip, I'm just like, I stack it on and I just feel super bad about myself. And I, I, I just hate

00:54:13.140 where I'm at. Um, so I just need to be like content in the moment, just realize that's part of the

00:54:18.660 journey. I think ours are actually very closely aligned. Yeah. Well, you know, it's because I

00:54:25.000 actually, cause we want to be good at whatever it is that we're doing. Yeah. But, but the alternative

00:54:29.800 is you would be so like, you just wouldn't care about it at all. And that's not the right attitude

00:54:39.440 either. That's true. That's true. Right. Cause you don't want to be like, ah, you know, I just

00:54:43.040 got my, no big deal. Yeah. Kind of is a big deal. Like if you want to get better, then you have to

00:54:49.100 be upset about that, but not so upset that you sabotage yourself, but just upset enough that you

00:54:54.680 keep coming back to try to continue to learn. So maybe we're perfect the way we are. I don't

00:54:58.560 know. I think if you're going to, yeah, well you are. I think if, I think if you're going to err on

00:55:04.260 the side of, of something that it should be aspirational, like, Oh, I want to be better.

00:55:10.820 And you should be a little frustrated that you're not getting better as, as quickly as you'd like.

00:55:15.000 To your point, it's what causes you to show up a little bit more powerfully. Next time you're in

00:55:19.580 the gym, you might intentionally do some drills now and some other things because you didn't like

00:55:24.640 that feeling. Right. I mean, I even think about it with this, what I'm dealing with for the next

00:55:28.600 three to four months is like, I fully plan on stretching. I plan on eating right. I plan on

00:55:32.560 watching videos. I plan on getting back into it when I can, like to, to a small degree and build from

00:55:38.840 there because I really want to be good at jujitsu. I really enjoy it. And I take pride in being decent

00:55:45.000 for where I'm at. Yeah. Uh, physically what's hard rolling against Pete Roberts is insanity.

00:55:54.200 I bet Christopher's asking like position, like what's your weak spots of your game. Maybe

00:56:00.540 I tend to let people pass my guard and settle in more than I would like them to do that.

00:56:08.340 Yeah. Yeah. Like I kind of get, I think I give up too soon and I'm like, Oh, they passed. And it's

00:56:14.240 like, did they though? Or did you let them pass? Yeah. Like there was some still fight in you. You

00:56:20.120 could have swing. And I just kind of let them settle. Yeah. Because I actually don't mind people

00:56:25.860 being in my side control that that doesn't really bother me too much. Yeah. I, I feel okay right

00:56:32.220 there. Um, and so I think there could have been probably some things I could have done, like

00:56:37.720 fought, scrambled just a little bit more to stay out from letting somebody get into my side.

00:56:43.360 Yeah. Yeah. I have a little bit of that. I also have, I'll, I'll get deflated when I've,

00:56:53.140 when I fought really hard to pass a guard and I'm fighting, I'm fighting and then they recover.

00:56:58.020 And there's a moment of like, ah, you know what I mean? Versus if I kind of that same

00:57:03.700 thought, if I just pushed a little bit more, I could have gotten it, but I'm like, I get

00:57:08.840 deflated when I've like tried so hard and I didn't, I didn't pass. Yeah. Kind of the same

00:57:14.800 issue. Really. It's like this mental, like, ah, darn versus no, I could have fought a little

00:57:21.000 bit more and maybe prevented it and, or got it. Yeah. I don't really know where, like when

00:57:27.460 to, when to go hard and scramble hard and when to just flow and relax for a minute. I, I haven't

00:57:33.540 found that place. Yeah. And I think it's probably different for different, of course, different

00:57:39.140 style, different partners, different styles. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I've gotten,

00:57:43.760 I've created some bad habits for sure. Like where I'll, I'll be like, I'll, I like to attack

00:57:50.080 from awkward positions when someone does have me inside control. So I give up side control all

00:57:56.180 the time from a competition perspective, stupid idea. Not good. Yeah. Yeah. Bad habit to get

00:58:01.360 yourself into. So I, I do that a little too much in training where I, I kind of have these

00:58:05.620 bad habits. It's like my passive aggressive jujitsu doesn't serve itself very well outside

00:58:12.200 of training, but. Yeah. I mean, it's great in training, right? Cause you put yourself.

00:58:17.040 The, the, the thing I would say on offense, so that's more of a defensive for me. The thing

00:58:21.140 I'd say on offense is I have a tendency of laying on people. Cause I like the pressure

00:58:27.220 game. I like a close pressure game and I'm big and strong enough that I can bully people

00:58:32.480 around like that a little bit. Yeah. Unless they're super technical or, or the same size

00:58:37.280 as me and it's going to be harder, but I do have a tendency of, of laying on people instead

00:58:42.720 of creating space and opportunities and gaps to attack. That's one thing I can work on.

00:58:47.480 Like you'll settle there a little too much versus chest to chest, just put the pressure

00:58:52.220 on, which works sometimes, you know, and it's like, well, maybe I ought to go into neon

00:58:55.500 belly and set up something with the arm or set up something with the neck or try to take

00:58:59.140 their back. And it's like, Nope, I'm good right here. Yeah. Yeah. See, I get a little

00:59:03.320 impatient when I do that. I'm like, okay, I'm bored, you know? Yeah. So I'll like give up

00:59:09.200 stuff, you know? Yeah. I'm just like, I can just pin them here and I'm, I'm in control.

00:59:13.140 It's like, okay, well, yeah, you are in control, but are you getting better? No, probably not.

00:59:18.900 Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. All right. Graham Helder. I recently moved halfway across

00:59:24.720 the country. I'm having difficulty approaching men in my church and striking up conversations

00:59:29.200 in my old church. I grew up with everyone, but now I feel like an outsider. How do I beat that

00:59:34.960 social anxiety and engage with my peers? You don't beat it. You own it.

00:59:39.220 Hmm. So what I mean is if I were at a new church and I'm like, Oh, I feel really uncomfortable and

00:59:45.760 awkward, but I'm going to pretend like I'm not, that's trying to beat it. And you you're fooling

00:59:50.820 yourself. And then it just comes across as disingenuous. So instead of that, what I would

00:59:56.260 suggest to you is that you own it. And so you might approach the guys and maybe they have,

01:00:00.280 I don't know, Sunday school, or maybe they have a meeting each week is, is you just own it.

01:00:04.580 And you go to the guys, whoever the head of the thing is. And you say, Hey Kip,

01:00:07.180 I know you're in charge of the men's group. And it sounds like you guys meet every Wednesday night.

01:00:11.340 I'm new here. I don't know a single person. I feel really awkward, but Hey man, like,

01:00:15.900 would you mind if I tagged along with you guys? Totally. And you just, you just own it. And like,

01:00:21.600 what's he going to do? No, no, no. We don't want more men, more righteous men here learning about God

01:00:27.000 and the gospel and hanging out and having this fellowship. Like you're in a no threat environment.

01:00:31.620 So just be humble. Just own the fact that you feel awkward or you feel stupid, or you don't know

01:00:37.660 somebody, or maybe you even put something together. Maybe it's like, Hey, fight Saturday night at seven

01:00:43.460 o'clock Kip. I know you're in charge of the men's group. I wanted to have four or five guys. I don't

01:00:49.140 have much room for more than that, but I've got a bunch of steaks. My wife's going to be on the grill.

01:00:53.720 We're going to do this. And then there's this, like, would you want to get a couple of guys together

01:00:57.320 from the church? See, it would totally do that, but just own it. Don't you're, I think you're

01:01:02.700 making a bigger deal of it than you need to. And that's, what's creating the barrier and the blockage

01:01:06.360 for you. Yeah. And, and I think there's a little bit of who's, who's this about you? Like maybe,

01:01:12.980 maybe get over that and just say, Hey, you know what? These are good guys. I want to serve them

01:01:16.620 and maybe find a little bit stronger purpose than just you and how you look. And that sometimes will

01:01:23.660 help guys take the necessary action because it's, it is bigger than you. It's about your family. It's

01:01:28.660 about your wife. It's about how you guys integrate in the community. Like it's bigger than just your

01:01:32.680 anxiety. So maybe put some weight on it a little bit. I like what you said about the way you look.

01:01:37.940 Cause isn't that the root of it is like, I don't want to be awkward around these guys. Well, you're,

01:01:41.780 you're like, you're the one that's thinking that. Yeah. Like no, very few people are actually,

01:01:47.180 other people are actually thinking that. Yeah. They're more concerned about how they're looking to you.

01:01:50.920 Exactly. Exactly. They're not concerned about what you think. Yeah. Right. Or they're not

01:01:55.300 concerned about your perception of them. They're more concerned about the other. Right. So that's

01:01:59.420 right. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take one more. All right. Jimmy bars. What criteria do you have that has met

01:02:05.180 that has, that has to be met before you would consider yourself wealthy?

01:02:13.600 I don't, I don't care about that. Yeah. Like, I mean, I, that isn't like, there's nothing

01:02:20.500 like, why, what's the value of considering yourself wealthy. There's no metric for that

01:02:25.060 for me. Like, I don't like, Oh man, I want to be wealthy and I want, like, I don't care about that.

01:02:30.740 Yeah. I have a thought and I've shared this before. Um, and it's a quote, it's the book that

01:02:36.900 you're quoted in one of your old time guests, like a long time ago, probably in like the first year

01:02:42.480 Austin, Austin Netsley, something wealth book. Right. Yeah. I can't remember what it is. I'm listening.

01:02:48.000 I just got to shut this door. My little guy opened it up. So I'm listening. Yeah, no worries. So in

01:02:53.240 that book, one of the things I loved, if I, if I had to paraphrase, and this is from years and years

01:02:58.440 ago was he suggested that you need to define what wealth is because otherwise you'll end up just

01:03:06.720 chasing this elusive dollar. And, and we use this example all the time. Like when we'll do an event

01:03:13.040 and say, okay, everyone raise your hand that wants to be a millionaire and everyone raises their hand,

01:03:18.280 but then you go, okay, well, here's what's required. Now who still wants to be a millionaire?

01:03:23.040 Right. So there's some value in you being very clear of why you want, or what are the expectations

01:03:30.640 or what's required to actually get somewhere. And sometimes when we chase the dollar, we lose sight.

01:03:36.660 If we didn't have clarity of why we really cared about the dollar. And so as an example is I've

01:03:43.400 asked my wife and said, Hey, what does really wealthy look like to you? And it was funny because

01:03:48.500 she was like being able to go to Europe whenever I want, maybe a couple of times a year and be able

01:03:54.180 to be over there for a month. And I'm like, well, that's less to do with money and more to do with

01:04:00.900 flexibility of time. So it's probably a really good idea that I know that. So I'm not just

01:04:05.960 nine to five grinding it out to make tons of money and have zero flexibility. So I think it's just

01:04:12.180 important to maybe have the conversation. What is wealthy, but what's behind that, right? What does

01:04:18.480 wealthy really mean to you? So then that way we're taking the necessary action, not necessarily just

01:04:24.120 chasing a dollar. Yeah, I agree with that. And, and, you know, in that light, I would say for me,

01:04:29.900 um, they're, they're, they're not real tangible. I have tangible objectives. Cause that's what we do

01:04:35.840 in the iron council. We come up with our battle plan. I have those objectives. Um, but you know,

01:04:41.080 this afternoon I'm taking this entire afternoon off. Like when we're done, I'm done. I'm going to

01:04:44.640 upload it and let Chad edit the video and edit the audio. And I'm not doing anything else. It's 1215

01:04:50.280 here, you know? So I'm going to take the afternoon off. I'm in a pretty good position. Why? Because

01:04:55.640 I don't feel good. I want to take the day off. First, I want to go take a nap. I want to sleep

01:05:00.860 for an hour. And then I want to, you know, hang out with the kids and that's a pretty good life to

01:05:05.720 me. You know, I don't need to chase anything else outside of that. Um, so maybe I already am wealthy,

01:05:13.320 you know, and I'm good with that. I have a brother that, um, I don't think he listened and it

01:05:21.540 shouldn't be an attack. This is a compliment that financially on paper, you would say that he's

01:05:29.280 struggling right in a very bad position or whatever, but you ask him about how life is

01:05:38.440 and how wealthy and blessed he is. And life is great. Yeah. Because he spends a lot of time with

01:05:45.340 his kids, his family, and he has what he wants. And that is a well-lived life from his perspective.

01:05:52.740 And so maybe in paraphrasing, be clear, why do you care about wealthy and maybe replace wealthy with

01:05:59.720 what's important to you and just make sure that whatever you're doing is in line with,

01:06:04.040 with that higher purpose and that those things that are more important.

01:06:08.500 I, you know, I even think about it from the, from the, now that we're kind of fleshing this out a

01:06:12.620 little bit from the, from the money perspective, I do want to make more money because money is a

01:06:20.080 metric of value. That's how I define money. It's a metric of perceived. I say, I say it this way.

01:06:26.220 Money is a metric of perceived value. And I say perceived because you have to believe that it's

01:06:32.340 valuable to give me your money and what, whatever you're getting in return is more valuable in the

01:06:36.600 money you're giving me. Totally. So if I make half a million dollars this year, then that's the

01:06:43.480 perceived value that the people received. If I make a million dollars this year, then you're more

01:06:48.940 valuable than you were last year. And it's not even about being more valuable at this point in my life.

01:06:55.220 It's that I just served twice as many people, or I serve the same amount of people twice as much.

01:07:00.060 Got it. And so I, I look at measure of impact. That's all it is. I look at the, and there's

01:07:06.580 other ways to measure that, but that's just one of the ways that I measure. And I look at it. I'm

01:07:10.080 like, okay, well, we're doing pretty good. We're impacting a lot of people. How do we impact more?

01:07:15.320 Or if we're going to raise prices at, at an event, for example, what will justify that price increase?

01:07:22.140 Okay. Well, we have to do X, Y, and Z. Good. Let's do that. And that's going to warrant the increase in

01:07:26.620 price. So I, I know not everybody's in this situation. I'm aware of that. I'm keenly aware

01:07:35.080 of that because I've been there. All of us have. And, and I know at some point it's just like,

01:07:40.460 I just got to make money to put food on the table. And I, I passed that concern a long time ago and

01:07:48.260 I'm blessed and I'm fortunate. I'm grateful that I have, cause I was there and it's miserable,

01:07:52.000 but that's different than where I'm at right now. And, and I want all of us to get to that point.

01:07:58.080 Totally. Totally. And one way to get to that point, get on the court and play the game in the

01:08:04.860 iron council. So to learn more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council.

01:08:09.780 We're going to be open for until the end of this week. Yeah. Three more days is it. Yeah. And then

01:08:14.700 we're going to close this, uh, that door and you're going to have to wait until next quarter. So if

01:08:19.300 you're on the fence, just execute. Um, and I, my suggestion is, and I, I mentioned this on a

01:08:24.560 podcast couple, maybe it was last week or the week before. And I, and I really like,

01:08:30.740 I'm not joking in this strategy. Um, if you feel like, Hey, for me to execute on this, I need to get

01:08:36.780 my wife on board or, or I need to get on board. Then the way you approach this is get clear why it's

01:08:42.280 important. How are you going to level up by executing? And then what are you going to do to make

01:08:47.480 it worth it? Yeah. Like set those boundaries with yourself. Like, okay, for me to justify

01:08:52.260 join the iron council, this is where I want to be. Then make it happen. Like literally define it and

01:08:58.160 make it happen. And, and join us. Once again, that's order of man.com slash iron council.

01:09:04.020 Kip. I, I, that was really great. I would add one other thing to that is make sure if you're

01:09:08.100 including your wife in the process and you probably should, um, that you're also checking in with her.

01:09:13.700 So at the end of the first month, you're like, Hey hon, you remember I joined the iron council.

01:09:18.300 Um, I've, I just joined a team. Here's what I'm doing. Here's how, but what, what do you think

01:09:23.060 about the way I've showed up over the past 30 days and ask her, like, you're not asking for

01:09:27.780 permission. A lot of guys will hear that and be like, Oh, you're being a beta. No, you're just,

01:09:31.280 you're including her in the process. Cause she does have a vested interest in the process.

01:09:37.240 She has a vested interest in you. So help her see that. And what I would say is just,

01:09:43.080 I was going to say, give me 90 days. Don't give me 90 days. Just give yourself 90 days.

01:09:48.040 We operate in quarters. Okay. 90 day segments. We have a 12 week battle planner. We operate those

01:09:53.520 12 weeks. That's 90 days. Give yourself 90 days. You guys, some of you are doing 75 hard. Some of

01:10:00.420 you are doing this and that just 90 days at 90 days from now, you can evaluate it. And if I guarantee,

01:10:06.760 I can promise you that if you've done the work for 90 days, consistently religiously

01:10:12.020 that it is going to be well, well worth it's incalculable what it'll be worth to you.

01:10:19.480 Amen. If you do it for 90 days, even if you leave after 90 days, it's still going to be

01:10:24.880 incalculable because you're going to take all that information and knowledge and you're going to

01:10:28.500 implement it and compound it over the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years. So check it out. Orderman.com

01:10:34.060 slash iron council. Well, Kip, I appreciate you. I know my energy was probably a little down today.

01:10:38.540 I'm going to go take a nap and take the afternoon off and I'll be back tomorrow, but appreciate you.

01:10:45.020 Appreciate all the questions, guys. Good questions today. A lot of new ones. And we'll be back on

01:10:48.740 Friday for our Friday field notes until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant

01:10:53.680 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:10:58.620 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:11:02.340 at order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 29, 2022

What it Means to be Wealthy, Having Conversations around Charged Topics, and Evolving as a Man ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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